Joint Legislative Public Hearing on 2017-2018 Executive Budget Proposal: Topic "Transportation" - Testimonies

13 Senator Catharine M. Young
Chair, Senate Finance Committee
14
Assemblyman Herman D. Farrell, Jr.
15 Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee

16 PRESENT:

17 Senator Liz Krueger
Senate Finance Committee (RM)
18
Assemblyman Robert Oaks
19 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)

20 Senator Diane J. Savino
Vice Chair, Senate Finance Committee
21
Assemblyman David Gantt
22 Chair, Assembly Committee on Transportation

23 Senator Joseph Robach
Chair, Senate Transportation Committee
24

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 2-15-17

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Assemblyman Jeffrey Dinowitz
Chair, Assembly Committee on Corporations,
5 Authorities & Commissions

6 Assemblyman Michael Cusick

7 Senator James N. Tedisco

8 Assemblyman Mark C. Johns

9 Assemblyman Phil Steck

10 Assemblyman James Skoufis

11 Senator Timothy Kennedy

12 Assemblyman Steven Otis

13 Senator Martin Malave Dilan

14 Assemblyman David G. McDonough

15 Senator Thomas D. Croci

16 Assemblywoman Pamela J. Hunter

17 Assemblywoman Alicia Hyndman

18 Assemblyman Edward Ra

19 Senator Leroy Comrie

20 Assemblywoman Nicole Malliotakis

21 Senator Todd Kaminsky

22 Assemblyman Walter T. Mosley

23 Assemblywoman Tremaine Wright

24 Assemblywoman Yuh-Line Niou

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 2-15-17

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon

5 Senator Elaine Phillips

6 Assemblyman L. Dean Murray

7 Assemblyman David Buchwald

8 Senator Brad Hoylman

9 Assemblyman N. Nick Perry

10 Senator Roxanne Persaud

11 Assemblywoman Helene E. Weinstein

12

13 LIST OF SPEAKERS

14 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

15 Matthew J. Driscoll
Commissioner
16 New York State Department
of Transportation 8 18
17
Theresa Egan
18 Executive Deputy Commissioner
New York State Department
19 of Motor Vehicles 162 170

20 Veronique Hakim
Interim Executive Director
21 Robert Foran
Chief Financial Officer
22 Craig Stewart
Senior Director, Capital
23 Programs
Metropolitan Transportation
24 Authority (MTA) 242 248

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 2-15-17

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 Bill Finch
Acting Executive Director
6 NYS State Thruway Authority 375 379

7 Bernie Meyer
Canaan Supt. of Highways
8 President
NYS Association of Town
9 Superintendents of Highways
-and-
10 Wayne E. Bonesteel
Rensselaer Co. Engineer
11 Legislative Cochair
NYS County Highway
12 Superintendents Association 405 414

13 Bill Carpenter
CEO, Rochester-Genesee Regional
14 Transportation Authority
President, New York Public
15 Transit Association 420 426

16 Alec Slatky
Policy Analyst
17 AAA New York State 429 434

18 Paul Gendron
Statewide PEF/DOT Labor
19 Mgt. Committee Labor Chair
Karen Patterson
20 Statewide PEF/DOT Labor Mgt.
Committee Labor Vice Chair
21 PEF 445

22 Scott Wigger
Executive Director
23 Railroads of New York 457 462

24

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 2-15-17

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 John DelBalso
President
6 NY Aviation Management
Association 465
7
John Tomassi
8 President
Upstate Transportation
9 Association 474

10 John Scott
Owner-Operator
11 Excelsior Driving School
-for-
12 Empire Safety Council 483 493

13 Spyros Messados
Committee for Taxi Safety 495 503
14
Kevin Barwell
15 President
Limousine, Bus, Taxi
16 Operators of Upstate NY 513

17 Berj Haroutunian
President
18 Black Car Assistance Corp.
-and-
19 Guy Palumbo
Director of Driver Education
20 Black Car Fund 524

21 Carley J. Hill
Chairwoman
22 The FAIR Committee 535

23

1 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good morning. Good

2 morning. I'll try that again. Good morning.

3 AUDIENCE: Good morning.

4 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: All right.

5 Today we begin the 111th in a series

6 of hearings conducted by the joint fiscal

7 committees of the Legislature regarding the

8 Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year

9 2017-2018. The hearings are conducted

10 pursuant to Article VII, Section 3 of the

11 Constitution, and Article II, Section 32 and

12 32A of the Legislative Law.

13 Today the Assembly Ways and Means

14 Committee and the Senate Finance Committee

15 will hear testimony concerning budget

16 proposals for transportation.

17 I will now introduce some of the

18 members, and then Senator Young will do hers

19 and so will Assemblyman Oaks.

20 We have been visited by Assemblyman

21 David Gantt, chair of the Transportation

22 Committee; Assemblyman Michael Cusick,

23 Assemblywoman Pam Hunter, Assemblyman Jeff

24 Dinowitz, chair of the Corporations

1 Committee.

2 And Mr. Oaks, Senator -- Assemblyman

3 Oaks. I was going to move you up.

4 SENATOR ROBACH: You should have been

5 a Senator.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, we've been

7 joined by Assemblyman McDonough,

8 Assemblyman Johns, Assemblyman Ra, and

9 Assemblywoman Malliotakis.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

11 Good morning. I'm Senator Catharine

12 Young, and I'm chair of the Senate Standing

13 Committee on Finance. And I'm joined today

14 by several of my colleagues. First, Senator

15 Diane Savino, who is vice chair of the

16 Finance Committee; Senator Liz Krueger, who

17 is ranking member; Senator Joe Robach, who is

18 chair of the Senate Standing Committee on

19 Transportation; Senator James Tedisco,

20 Senator Todd Kaminsky, Senator Marty Dilan,

21 Senator Tom Croci, and Senator Tim Kennedy.

22 Mr. Chairman?

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes, thank you.

24 But before I start, I would like to

1 remind all of the witnesses testifying today,

2 and our colleagues on the bench, to keep your

3 statement within your allotted time limits so

4 that everyone can be afforded opportunity to

5 speak. And you'll see we have the clocks

6 there -- they're on the dais and they're on

7 the wall, so you can see them.

8 Now we will go to our first witness,

9 and that is the New York State Department of

10 Transportation, Matthew Driscoll,

11 commissioner.

12 Good morning again.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

14 Thank you. Good morning, everyone.

15 Chairperson Young, Chairperson Farrell,

16 Chairperson Robach, Chairperson Gantt, and

17 members of the Finance, Ways and Means, and

18 Transportation Committees, thank you for the

19 opportunity to discuss Governor Cuomo's

20 Executive Budget as it pertains to the

21 Department of Transportation for the

22 2017-2018 state fiscal year.

23 I'd like to begin with stating how

24 honored I am to serve as the 12th

1 commissioner of the Department of

2 Transportation. During the course of my more

3 than 20 years of public service, I've worked

4 with many talented, dedicated and wonderful

5 individuals -- none more so than those I now

6 have the opportunity to work with at the

7 Department of Transportation. Their

8 extraordinary professionalism and work ethic

9 are the reasons that New York State's

10 multimodal transportation systems are among

11 the most dependable and highly regarded in

12 the nation.

13 I'd like to take this opportunity to

14 publicly thank the women and men of the

15 department. Thank you for all you do.

16 As the previous owner of successful

17 small businesses, I came to understand and

18 appreciate the inherent value of a dollar,

19 and as such, I did all I could to control

20 expenses while maximizing returns on the

21 investments that I made. I instilled that

22 same discipline throughout my tenure as mayor

23 of the City of Syracuse. And now, as

24 commissioner of a state agency with an

1 $11 billion annual budget, I bring that same

2 approach to this department.

3 I've worked with Governor Cuomo to

4 institute a performance-based accountability

5 culture within DOT that has demonstrated that

6 government can be run more efficiently and

7 that the public's money can be spent more

8 effectively.

9 The department aggressively

10 streamlined the project selection, design,

11 procurement and delivery processes. As you

12 well know, DOT is successfully using new

13 procurement methods such as design-build,

14 prequalification of contractors, and best

15 value, in addition to the traditional

16 design-bid-build procedure, to deliver its

17 capital program. I'll talk more about these

18 procurement techniques in a few moments. But

19 perhaps little known is the entrepreneurial

20 spirit that these new techniques have

21 enabled, including the design, development

22 and deployment of new innovative construction

23 methods and the use of state-of-the-art

24 materials such as precast bridge elements,

1 rapid-set or ultra-high-performance concrete,

2 and slide-in bridge construction. These

3 innovative methods have reduced both the cost

4 and the time it takes to design and deliver

5 construction projects. And as we all know,

6 the more efficient we are with taxpayers'

7 money, the better off we all are.

8 Last year I pledged to this committee

9 that I would address the department's process

10 to accelerate construction and ensure that

11 the Department of Transportation's capital

12 program is creating jobs and facilitating

13 local economic development. I have done

14 that, and have since directed the department

15 to accelerate the award of projects so that

16 construction can begin earlier. By

17 accelerating the timing of procurements, we

18 will now take full advantage of the limited

19 construction window in the Northeast. As a

20 result, projects which would have been

21 completed over two construction seasons can

22 now be delivered in one.

23 One of our best tools for saving time

24 has been design-build. Prior to the

1 enactment of the Infrastructure Investment

2 Act of 2011, DOT delivered construction

3 contracts through a traditional

4 design-bid-build process. By combining the

5 design and construction phases of a project

6 into one contract, project delivery is more

7 efficient, and project benefits are delivered

8 to the public sooner.

9 Since being signed into law in 2011,

10 DOT has awarded 25 design-build contracts

11 valued in excess of $1.2 billion. These

12 projects are now underway throughout the

13 state, and the results are overwhelmingly

14 positive. Projects are being delivered

15 sooner, on-budget, and jobs are being

16 created. In addition to these contracts,

17 there are currently five more under

18 procurement, totaling an additional

19 $360 million.

20 The Department has also identified

21 14 projects statewide in excess of

22 $900 million that may be candidates for

23 design-build in the future. The act's

24 benefits make it clear that design-build

1 authority should be made permanent.

2 Design-build was never intended to

3 replace the traditional design-bid-build

4 method, nor will it, but it has, without

5 question, been a valuable tool to accelerate

6 projects that would not have otherwise

7 advanced for years. To sustain this positive

8 momentum, the Governor has included a

9 proposal in his Executive Budget to

10 permanently extend these procurement

11 techniques, and I urge your support for this

12 proposal.

13 Last year, with your strong support,

14 DOT realized the first long-term

15 transportation infrastructure investment plan

16 in nearly a decade. The department is

17 currently delivering the second year of the

18 $21.1 billion five-year investment in our

19 roads, bridges, rails, transit systems and

20 airports, from Montauk to Niagara Falls.

21 Together, these collective investments will

22 keep New York's economy growing into the next

23 century, while creating 250,000 construction

24 jobs.

1 Senator Robach asks me often about

2 delivery. So to illustrate the enormous

3 economic impact of the department's capital

4 plan, since last April, DOT-awarded projects

5 will have utilized more than 90,000 tons of

6 steel, the amount of steel used to

7 manufacture 90,000 automobiles; more than

8 6.7 million tons of asphalt -- that's the

9 equivalent of paving a four-lane highway from

10 New York to California -- and more than

11 280,000 cubic yards of concrete, or four and

12 a half times the amount of concrete used to

13 construct the Empire State Building.

14 To sustain this momentum, we must

15 continue to invest in building infrastructure

16 in every region of our state. The Executive

17 Budget released last month will do just that.

18 The Governor's Executive Budget

19 proposal for the Department of Transportation

20 not only honors the commitments made through

21 the five-year capital plan; this proposed

22 budget provides an additional $1.2 billion in

23 new resources to improve roadway access to

24 and from JFK Airport, and to accelerate the

1 construction of several major regional

2 projects by as much as three years. Those

3 projects include, among others, the

4 construction in the Town of Woodbury, the

5 Transit and Economic Development Hub, State

6 Route 17 and 32 interchange; construction of

7 the second phase of the new Kosciuszko Bridge

8 in New York City; reconstruction of State

9 Route 198, the Scajaquada corridor in

10 Buffalo; and the replacement of the passenger

11 rail station here locally in Schenectady.

12 The Executive Budget also sustains

13 record-level funding for local road and

14 bridge assistance under the CHIPS,

15 Marchiselli, PAVE-NY and BRIDGE NY programs.

16 I'm also pleased to provide status

17 updates on several of the new transportation

18 infrastructure initiatives that were

19 announced last year. The upstate airport

20 economic development and revitalization

21 competition -- this was a $200 million

22 competition announced by Governor Cuomo last

23 year, and it challenged upstate airports to

24 envision bold new plans to enhance safety,

1 improve operations and access, reduce

2 environmental impacts, and create a better

3 passenger experience. The first two winners,

4 Elmira Corning Regional Airport and the

5 Greater Rochester International Airport,

6 submitted innovative and transformative

7 plans. Elmira was awarded $40 million to

8 support a $60 million re-imagination of the

9 airport -- increasing capacity, enhancing

10 security, improving retail options, and

11 modernizing to compete in the 21st century

12 global economy. Rochester was awarded

13 $39.8 million to support its $54 million plan

14 to bring new sustainability features into the

15 airport, increasing capacity and safety, and

16 promoting innovation at the site.

17 To build on this success, the Governor

18 recently announced the winners of Round 2 of

19 the upstate airport competition. The

20 Syracuse-Hancock International Airport will

21 receive $35.8 million towards a $54 million

22 project, including a state-of-the-art

23 centralized security checkpoint, a

24 revitalized terminal facade, and two

1 completely redesigned concourses. And

2 $38 million was just recently awarded to the

3 Plattsburgh International Airport to support

4 its $43 million investment to increase

5 capacity, including construction of a new air

6 cargo receiving and distribution center and

7 the establishment of a new customs facility.

8 Last month I notified municipalities

9 across the state of the results of the

10 $200 competitive funding awards for BRIDGE NY

11 under the current two-year solicitation. The

12 BRIDGE NY program provides critical funding

13 for local governments to rehab and replace

14 bridges and culverts across every region of

15 the state. By providing BRIDGE NY funding to

16 local governments, New York is building

17 safer, more reliable bridges, protecting

18 public safety, and supporting the economic

19 competitiveness of communities by improving

20 local infrastructure.

21 This year's awards will support 93

22 bridges and 39 culverts and the rehab and

23 replacement of those projects across the

24 state. At least one municipality in every

1 county of the state that applied for funding

2 will be receiving an award for a bridge or

3 culvert project under this new program.

4 In conclusion, over the next several

5 years the implementation of the department's

6 long-term transportation plan will play a

7 central role in the state's economic growth.

8 The acceleration of strategic investments in

9 transportation infrastructure, as proposed in

10 the Executive Budget, will serve as a

11 catalyst for job creation, access to new

12 global markets, and enhanced community

13 quality of life. To that end, New York State

14 Department of Transportation will ensure that

15 through continued investments in

16 transportation programs, we will foster

17 economic opportunity in New York State. It's

18 what we must do as a state to sustain our

19 position as the Empire State.

20 I want to thank you for your time this

21 morning, and I'm happy to entertain any

22 questions that you may have for me.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

24 much.

1 To begin the questioning, chairman of

2 the Transportation Committee, Assemblyman

3 Gantt.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Thank you very

5 much, Chairman Farrell.

6 And thank you, Commissioner, for

7 coming before us today. I have a few

8 questions that I'd like to ask because I have

9 some real concerns.

10 One is the design-build. And I'm not

11 sure where we end with up with that. Given

12 today's atmosphere with all the collusion and

13 all the other stuff that we got going on.

14 But I hope you guys can keep that under

15 control.

16 I also have a concern about Uber. You

17 know that place? And while I've taken

18 taxicabs all across the state, I'm not so

19 sure that every system needs Uber. And the

20 reason being is -- and I live in the heart of

21 quote, unquote, the ghetto. And for years,

22 the hack cabs were controlled by a very few

23 people. And finally, between Councilman

24 Norwood and myself, working with City

1 Council, we have improved the -- first of all

2 we've improved who has the license plates.

3 Before, people were doing the plates, paying

4 all the money, and then the -- in particular

5 this one guy, he paid the money one day; the

6 next day, the guy came by and took the hack

7 plate off. Which really bothered me, because

8 people have to make a living.

9 With Uber, for instance, can you tell

10 me why they pay 5.5 percent and the rest of

11 the state pays approximately 8 percent in

12 sales tax?

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, I can't

14 tell you that.

15 But what I can tell you, first on

16 design-build, is that it has -- as I provided

17 in my remarks, it's worked remarkably well

18 for the State Department of Transportation.

19 But I want to make the point again that it

20 will never replace design-bid-build. But it

21 is a tool in our tool belt that really helps

22 us accelerate and deliver, on time and on

23 budget, major projects.

24 With respect to Uber, I can only tell

1 you, personally speaking, I am supportive of

2 it. I think it's a great opportunity,

3 particularly in upstate communities and in

4 rural communities, where transportation modes

5 are far and few in between. And I'm

6 certainly hopeful that both legislative

7 bodies will be supportive of the passage of

8 Uber.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Then given that,

10 why is it that the Governor says everybody

11 has to have it? Have you checked to see

12 who's got good taxi service and who doesn't?

13 Have you guys looked at any of that?

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, that

15 would be a question for the Executive. I'm

16 not at this point dealing with Uber.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: So -- but you

18 support it?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I personally

20 support it, yes.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: But you don't know

22 how it's going to work in the different

23 communities.

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I know that

1 it's going to -- and I've used it in other

2 cities. It's a remarkable tool. And so I

3 support it personally. And if there is a

4 modest fee associated with that, my

5 experience has shown me it's faster and

6 frankly less expensive, in my experiences

7 with it, that I've utilized, than a

8 traditional taxicab.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Is Uber going to

10 be forced to take people from every

11 neighborhood? Do you know?

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Again, I don't

13 know the answer to that.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Okay. Those are

15 some of the concerns that I have, because I

16 think poor people in my neighborhood who

17 don't have -- first of all, may not have the

18 cellphone, but number two, who may not have

19 the credit card, but still who need taxi

20 service or livery services of some kind, what

21 do they do? What do you suggest to me that I

22 tell them they should do?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I --

24 hopefully they have a friend who has a

1 cellphone.

2 You know, look, Uber makes good sense.

3 It's being utilized across the nation. The

4 facts are clear, it's helping create new

5 economies, it's growing jobs, it's providing

6 transportation in a cost-effective manner to

7 people who many times can't get it or can't

8 wait for a traditional cab.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: You say that, but

10 you haven't checked the system in Rochester.

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, you

12 know, I guess what I would say to that,

13 that's correct, I don't know the system in

14 Rochester. I know my hometown system. It's

15 not a criticism. And I've used cabs here in

16 Albany. And sometimes, you know, I can't

17 wait an hour.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Albany's the worst

19 place in the world to get a cab, I agree with

20 you, because I've --

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: You know,

22 depending on the time of the day or the time

23 of the year, it's sometimes difficult to get

24 a cab. And I think the efficiency, the

1 convenience of Uber -- and again, I want to

2 state for the record that I personally

3 support that. But quite candidly, sir,

4 that's the negotiation between the Executive

5 and the legislative.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: And what do you

7 suggest we do about making the playing field

8 equal? For instance, cab drivers in my

9 neighborhood pay somewhere in the

10 neighborhood, I think, of $5,000, if I have

11 that correct. And Uber's going to have a

12 much different insurance base. What do we do

13 to make the playing field equal so everybody

14 can have a fair shot at it? Or do we just

15 allow Uber to close the regulars down, and

16 then the public be damned?

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I would

18 suggest to you that this is the time that

19 those negotiations should take place. I hope

20 they do, and I hope the result is that

21 upstate has Uber.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Okay. I have some

23 other questions. In terms of the DMV office

24 in Rochester, where are we at with that?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry, the

2 DMV?

3 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: The DMV office in

4 Rochester.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I don't

6 want to speak for DMV. You'll be --

7 Commissioner Egan is here, you'll be speaking

8 to her later in the day. I'll let her

9 respond to that.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Okay. There's an

11 issue with the signs on the Thruway in

12 particular. I see them as I drive back and

13 forth from here to home. What are we going

14 to do with those signs? Or do we have to

15 take them down? How much money was spent on

16 them?

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So no, we have

18 not been told to take them down, and I want

19 to clear that up right now. As all of you

20 probably know, I am actively engaged in a

21 conversation with Federal Highway on the

22 signs, and they've been very fruitful

23 discussions. And I want to say that the

24 folks in Washington and here in New York

1 State have been very open. In fact, we have

2 formulated a workgroup made up of

3 transportation individuals from the

4 Department of Transportation and Federal

5 Highway. We're having very productive

6 conversations relative to those.

7 New York State, the DOT, we have

8 installed about 374 of those signs across the

9 state. And I think the facts are clear.

10 Since those signs have been installed,

11 there's been an uptick of over 100,000 hits

12 to the apps, which is all based on -- focused

13 on tourism and growing the economy. You may

14 have read the other day that the revenues for

15 the Taste NY program are up across the state.

16 Tourism is a big business, as you all

17 well know, in each of your districts and all

18 across this state. It's a $100 billion

19 business in New York State, and it makes good

20 sense to support local economies, local

21 producers, local growers, local artisans and

22 help them grow their businesses.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Commissioner,

24 we've spent a lot of time in terms of public

1 safety, distracted driving.

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Mm-hmm.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: You hear of that

4 one? Those signs are very distracting. I

5 mean, I drive this way, so I can tell you.

6 And have you done anything to study that?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We don't

8 believe that they're distracting, we believe

9 that they're informational. They're not

10 directional, as well, but they provide

11 information in particular regions. As you

12 know, New York State is based on regions.

13 That's how the Governor has chosen to

14 administer New York State, I think smartly

15 so. And so what these signs do is offer

16 opportunities for people to understand those

17 options that are available in each of the

18 10 regions throughout New York State.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: But in the

20 meantime, you were told a person who's in his

21 car, that he should not use his cellphone.

22 And --

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Uh --

24 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Should not use his

1 cellphone, and I agree with you. However, I

2 also think the same thing happens when one

3 passes those Thruway signs out there.

4 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Clearly we do

5 not condone people using their cellphones

6 while they're driving. The hope is that they

7 use it when they pull off at a rest area, a

8 text stop, or a passenger who may be with

9 them, and likely so, would use that to access

10 that information as well.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: And you're going

12 to let DMV deal with that.

13 The Executive increased the proportion

14 for the capital plan by $1.2 billion, of

15 which $600 million is dedicated to a series

16 of projects. Do you have a breakdown of how

17 the $600 million will be spent?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I do. So

19 it's $564 million will go towards the

20 Kew Gardens Interchange. It's a very busy

21 place, with 250,000 vehicles going through

22 that. It's a big choke point, if you will,

23 access to John F. Kennedy Airport.

24 And we've received $600 million in

1 encumbrance relief for federal dollars to

2 support acceleration of projects like

3 Woodbury Commons, as an example.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: The question that

5 I always ask in each one of these is how --

6 the deficiency of our roads and bridges,

7 because -- what's the percentage this year,

8 can you tell me?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I can't give

10 you the exact percentages here. The overall

11 condition of our roads and bridges is not in

12 the poor category. You know, and I think

13 that's why, quite honestly, the BRIDGE NY

14 program has been such a big success, because

15 it is also addressing local bridges, locally

16 owned bridges -- not state-owned bridges,

17 locally owned bridges -- that are in need of

18 much repair.

19 It's a program, you know, that we

20 thought would really help locals address

21 those needs. It's been wildly popular. We

22 expect that to continue going forward.

23 The question of infrastructure, I was

24 speaking earlier today with Senator Tedisco

1 about it. The reality is, and I think all of

2 us know that we live in a very old state, we

3 live in the old Northeast, and much of the

4 infrastructure is very old. Unfortunately,

5 over the past 40 or so years, a lot of that

6 infrastructure was ignored. And so here we

7 are today with the task to deal with it

8 aggressively. We're doing that. That's one

9 of the reasons why we like design-build for

10 the big megaprojects, you know.

11 And while we talk about the big

12 projects at the Department of Transportation,

13 many times we seem to focus on those big

14 projects, I'd like to tell you there's about

15 2500 projects in the five-year plan that are

16 small and local. And they're important to

17 local communities. So from my position, big

18 or small, they're all important.

19 Infrastructure is challenged. I can tell you

20 that this Governor is investing in it. We

21 have the biggest capital plan in the history

22 of the Department of Transportation.

23 I would also say this, that it is

24 incumbent upon our federal partners to

1 continue to invest. We know that there's

2 been conversations from President Trump's

3 administration that they're talking about an

4 infrastructure plan. We hope that happens.

5 If that happens, New York State DOT is ready

6 to deliver, we will be poised to deliver

7 federal funds, in addition to our five-year

8 plan to address that aging infrastructure.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: But can we deliver

10 on our part of the bargain? Can we deliver

11 on our percentage of those road or bridge

12 projects?

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry, I'm

14 having trouble hearing you.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: That's okay. We

16 want the feds to deliver. However, can we

17 deliver on our piece? I'm sure that we pay a

18 portion of that.

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, we do.

20 And we are delivering. And I'm letting you

21 know, here and now, we are delivering.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: And we can

23 continue to deliver?

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry?

1 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: We can continue to

2 deliver?

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We're going to

4 continue to deliver, and we're going to do it

5 faster. As I outlined in my remarks, I've

6 changed the very structure that's been in

7 place for over 20 years at DOT on lettings.

8 So no longer will larger projects be let in

9 the fourth quarter, it will be done in the

10 third quarter.

11 What does that mean? That means

12 instead of having a project go out in the

13 fall, where people can't mobilize because

14 winter's coming, it's going to be done in the

15 spring. So they'll be able to mobilize

16 efficiently, and they've got a full

17 construction season. It's going to make a

18 big difference.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN GANTT: Commissioner, you

20 push design-build. As one who happens to be

21 of color, as one who's also concerned about

22 whether or not minorities will get a fair

23 share of that -- and the Governor has bragged

24 about his 30 percent, which I don't believe.

1 I have to tell you that. I just don't

2 believe that -- can you tell me how we're

3 going to assure the state -- assure the state

4 of -- at least the minority communities, how

5 they're going to be able to participate in

6 that system?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, and I

8 can speak certainly on behalf of DOT. It's

9 something that I have been committed to my

10 entire professional career in public service.

11 And I have a record of that, as mayor. I

12 continue that here. I think we've done very

13 well working towards that goal.

14 Through December, our number was about

15 20 percent. But we don't stop there, we

16 continue to work with groups and individuals

17 and businesses to mentor them across the

18 state. We'll also be partaking in some

19 statewide educational -- a series of

20 educational meetings later this year.

21 MWBE is very important to the

22 Governor, it's very important to me, and it's

23 very important to the state. And so that is

24 a big component of all of our project

1 delivery, is to make sure that we are -- we

2 are -- working towards that goal.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you,

4 Chairman.

5 Senator?

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

7 Our next speaker is Senator Joe

8 Robach, who chairs the Transportation

9 Committee.

10 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you, Senator

11 Young.

12 Commissioner, thank you for your

13 comments. And I would say I think we're

14 definitely moving in a better direction, as

15 you stated in your comments. That for

16 several years we didn't even have a capital

17 plan, let alone parity with the MTA in roads

18 and bridges, helped exacerbate our aging

19 infrastructure, and I think was not the right

20 direction. So I'm glad we're moving in the

21 right direction, and I do appreciate the

22 lettings early and everything else.

23 But I do want to just talk about

24 money, because I think it's important. And

1 certainly I think probably for everybody up

2 here, we hear from people -- from local

3 governments, constituents, people in the

4 field, engineers -- where we're at. So --

5 and I think it's important we let everybody

6 know. So we all worked together, and we

7 fought for this very important framework, if

8 you will, of parity, which some people say is

9 a five-year plan, some people say is a

10 six-year plan. When we were in negotiations

11 directly with the Governor, he said it had to

12 be six years and it was $27 billion for the

13 MTA, $27 billion for roads and bridges. Is

14 that all still in place, and where we're at?

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes. Yes.

16 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay, good.

17 So I do the math a little bit

18 simplistically and say roughly we should be

19 having about $4.5 billion a year going out

20 for roads and bridges all across -- and

21 that's in roads and bridges, that's for

22 Long Island, New York City, all of upstate,

23 everywhere. Do we try to kind of like hit

24 that goal annually, or not necessarily?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. Of

2 course, yes, we want to, but remember, last

3 year you -- with the Governor, you provided

4 the first real long-term capital plan.

5 SENATOR ROBACH: Right.

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So as that

7 progresses forward, obviously the dollars

8 become -- they start in planning, whether

9 it's local projects or state projects, and

10 that morphs forward.

11 So as an example, this year we have

12 $5 billion in the capital program. About

13 3.8 of that is for road and bridges. But not

14 all of that will actually take place this

15 year, because people need to do design, they

16 need to do, you know, other work to get that

17 in the queue to move forward.

18 And, you know, look, we're also

19 looking at projects or work that has been on

20 the shelf and how can we help accelerate that

21 as well. So, you know, the idea -- in terms

22 of the resources, you have provided the

23 department the biggest capital plan that it's

24 ever had, certainly before me. But we're

1 very mindful of making that money work, work

2 efficiently, and work in an expeditious

3 manner. Which is why I advocate for

4 design-build. It will not replace

5 design-bid-build. But that for us, and I

6 think for communities across the state, it's

7 a great tool to have in our toolbox.

8 SENATOR ROBACH: Yeah. I know, again,

9 my goal is to get as much work out the door

10 as we can. I don't want to be gluttonous,

11 but I realize there's a lag. So if I'm

12 answering the question to somebody to say

13 where is this money that we pledged in the

14 budget -- so the answer would be maybe we're

15 on a little delay, it may take a little bit

16 longer than six years, but we're really

17 working and it's getting out the door.

18 Would that be fair?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That would be

20 fair. But I would also call and ask before

21 you answer that question, so we can tell you

22 accurately where it is in the pipeline.

23 But some of these larger projects, and

24 in particular when you're working with

1 locals, take time. They take time for local

2 reasons, and they take time for procurement

3 reasons.

4 So -- but it's true, I'm committed to

5 moving the money out the door faster. I

6 continue to do that. I discussed some of

7 that here today. I've realigned, and I

8 discussed that with you last year here,

9 administratively how we work internally. I

10 think we have a much more efficient internal

11 flow. And so I think it's working better for

12 the Department of Transportation.

13 SENATOR ROBACH: Yeah. I guess I

14 would -- I have a lot of questions. I'll try

15 to expedite.

16 You know, I guess I would like to

17 see -- and I realize it's not just you, we

18 have to work with the Governor and everybody

19 in the process. But going back to my

20 colleague Dave Gantt's comments, you know,

21 when we wanted to get those signs put up and

22 the Governor had the will, we did it in no

23 time. I guess I'd like to see a little bit

24 more of that urgency, especially in a

1 geographic sense.

2 Like I love the bridge program,

3 because there's a little something for

4 everybody in how we spread out the money and

5 assistance there, and people can see it.

6 This isn't so much a question, just an

7 observation. Most of the things I see in

8 upstate New York are a little bit more of

9 maintenance. I see a lot of things in

10 downstate New York, not only for the MTA, but

11 in roads and bridges, that are capital. So

12 when I have somebody say to me, you know,

13 where's that money, it's harder and harder

14 for me for answer it.

15 The good news is there's a lot of

16 activity. I think, because of your comment,

17 we all agree with the aging infrastructure.

18 I think it's very important that we use our

19 resources to try and get that out as

20 geographically as possible.

21 And there are a lot of projects that

22 are shovel-ready all across the state -- not

23 just in my district, but, you know, Buffalo,

24 Syracuse, you name it. It seems to me like

1 we should be able to get to those without as

2 much delay if we have the funding in place.

3 So I guess more than a question, it

4 would be my request that hopefully we can

5 really improve on what you've already

6 improved and kind of make that a little bit

7 quicker. I think it would be very well

8 received all across the state, especially in

9 upstate New York.

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Understood.

11 SENATOR ROBACH: And one last thing,

12 too. You answered part of it. So the

13 Governor puts in -- because, you know, we're

14 trying to do some of these other projects --

15 $1.2 billion additional DOT funds for road

16 and bridge, which is great. Where is that

17 money, what pool -- where is that money

18 coming from?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: The 1.2? It's

20 coming from DOB. And that's specific to the

21 Kew Gardens Interchange, which I explained,

22 and then --

23 SENATOR ROBACH: So that would come

24 out of this $27 billion that we've planned --

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: It's new

2 money. We have $3.8 billion, but we're

3 getting another 1.2, so we have $5 billion.

4 But that 1.2, 564 is going towards the Kew

5 Gardens Interchange, and the 600 encumbrance

6 relief will go to some of the accelerated

7 projects that I described, like Woodbury

8 Commons.

9 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay. And then I'd

10 just say one last thing too, because I don't

11 want to manipulate too much time here. I'm

12 hopeful, and I think we're going to try to

13 negotiate it, even in these challenging

14 times, I think for CHIPS and Marchiselli

15 funds. Those are critically important. You

16 know, we kind of say we're going to focus a

17 lot in maintenance. I think it would almost

18 be better for us to focus on capital and let

19 the locals a little bit focus more on

20 maintenance, because that's what they do

21 every day.

22 To do that, we have to at least

23 increase to the rate of inflation or greater

24 those local fundings. And it's not at this

1 particular table, but important to us all.

2 You were a mayor; you know that they love

3 when we can give them some relief to do

4 roadwork or anything else --

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

6 SENATOR ROBACH: -- Because they don't

7 have a lot of money.

8 So I hope, as we move forward -- I

9 know the Senate will be trying to negotiate

10 an increase in that category. I hope as the

11 commissioner you see the need and will be

12 amenable to that.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, and I

14 just want to say I know the need, having

15 lived it, as you've described. And that is

16 very much, you know, how we arrived with

17 PAVE-NY. So while CHIPS money has remained

18 the CHIPS money, and it's local money that's

19 fungible for them for the roads, the PAVE-NY

20 money is also flexible money for them in

21 addition to CHIPS, so that they get to

22 determine -- not DOT, but the locals get to

23 determine, you know, what roadwork they want

24 to do.

1 That's new. It wasn't like that

2 previously. DOT typically insisted that that

3 local work be connected to the state system.

4 We have now provided more flexibility to the

5 locals with the PAVE-NY program, and we give

6 that money to them in the same formula as

7 CHIPS is distributed. And I know many people

8 across the state have been very happy about

9 that.

10 But I don't disagree with you. You

11 know, this is the time of the year where the

12 negotiation takes place, and I would

13 encourage you to do so.

14 SENATOR ROBACH: Just real quick, one

15 parochial thing I just want to say too.

16 So -- and maybe you can explain to me how

17 this works. So you know we've been trying to

18 do the 390/490 interchange, we've got a bad

19 bridge there where stuff fell off and hit a

20 car, and of course -- rightfully so -- that

21 alarms the public.

22 Then Senator Schumer came in and said,

23 I've earmarked X amount of millions of

24 dollars for that project -- yet we're not

1 doing it yet. How does that work? And how

2 do we capture that money? And does that

3 really doing do anything for us, expediting

4 the project?

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: What, the

6 federal money?

7 SENATOR ROBACH: Well --

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: The federal

9 money obviously --

10 SENATOR ROBACH: I only know what I

11 read in the newspaper, also, because he

12 didn't tell me directly. But he said in

13 addition to everything else --

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, you know

15 what they say about reading newspapers,

16 right?

17 SENATOR ROBACH: -- he had earmarked

18 specific money for that project above and

19 beyond what we had talked about.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

21 SENATOR ROBACH: Is there some -- I

22 don't know how that works. Is there some --

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, there's no

24 additional money. And I don't want to speak

1 for the Senator, but we get federal funds.

2 So perhaps that's what he was speaking to.

3 SENATOR ROBACH: So there's not -- he

4 really doesn't have the ability, then, other

5 than generically, to go to the state to say

6 this federal money has to specifically go to

7 this project like a -- more like an earmark

8 or a member item?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We use the

10 federal funds across the state, across the

11 board. He's been very supportive with not

12 only the Department of Transportation's work

13 in Rochester, but other efforts as well.

14 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I'll get my

15 last plug and then I'll be done. I'll just

16 remind you that that 390/490 interchange in

17 Rochester has more cars through it every

18 morning than the Tappan Zee Bridge.

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Two hundred

20 thousand.

21 SENATOR ROBACH: There you go.

22 Thank you.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you, Senator.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

1 Mr. Chairman.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblyman

3 McDonough.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Thank you,

5 Chairman.

6 And good morning, Commissioner, and

7 welcome again.

8 A lot of what I wanted to ask was

9 covered. But I'm from Long Island and Nassau

10 County, and my region, which is Region 10,

11 I'm concerned about the amount of work that's

12 going to be in Region 10.

13 We have some parkways, and I'll just

14 gloss over them so that -- we won't take too

15 much time. But the Wantagh Parkway is in bad

16 shape. The Sagtikos Parkway is in need of

17 somehow improving that, because the

18 traffic -- and I drive it frequently -- is

19 horrendous.

20 And of course we talked about the

21 JFK Expressway, somebody already mentioned

22 that. That is going to be done in

23 conjunction with the development at Kennedy

24 Airport, or are you getting it done prior?

1 Do you know the schedule on that?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: In conjunction

3 with --

4 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: With the

5 redevelopment of Kennedy?

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. We'll

7 be starting that work and are starting that

8 work now. The design, you know.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Okay. All

10 right. And that's design-build also, right?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Okay. The

13 infrastructure problem you've addressed

14 somewhat already, and you and I talked about

15 it earlier. But of the 17,000 bridges in the

16 State of New York, DOT has control of

17 probably over half of those, right?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, about

19 8300.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Okay. Now,

21 your evaluation of those bridges, from my

22 information, is on a scale of 1 to 7, I

23 think, that they evaluate it. And I think 7

24 is the worst condition, right? I understand

1 that many of them are above 3. Would you

2 agree with that?

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry,

4 many are what?

5 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Many of the

6 bridges that have been evaluated are above 3

7 in the evaluation.

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Above 3?

9 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Some 4.

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Likely. Above

11 3?

12 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Yeah.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes, perhaps.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: So that means

15 they have to -- I realize that there's

16 many --

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So they're

18 like in moderate condition.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Pardon me?

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Moderate

21 condition.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Moderate.

23 Well, above 3 starts to get poor, right?

24 Many of the bridges are not controlled

1 by DOT. Does your inspections and evaluation

2 do those bridges as well, even though they're

3 locally controlled?

4 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes, we

5 inspect local bridges as well. And we try to

6 work with local communities, having

7 experienced this, where there may be a

8 reduction in weight limits, as an example.

9 Rather than just saying you've got to

10 close the bridge, we work with locals,

11 locally owned bridges, so that, you know,

12 they can identify funds to address their

13 bridges.

14 But again, I think that's where this

15 BRIDGE NY program has been very successful

16 thus far, in our first go at it, and we think

17 that that success will continue helping

18 support locals.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Okay, and you

20 mentioned BRIDGE NY. There's also PAVE-NY.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: A separate

22 program.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: And a lot of

24 the roads -- and I know going through winters

1 makes it very tough. But some of the

2 parkways I just mentioned -- the Wantagh

3 Parkway, for instance, is in serious need of

4 being redone.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. And

6 we're looking to repave. And I drove that

7 Wantagh Parkway myself, because I had heard

8 about it from you and others, so I did drive

9 that myself to experience that ride.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Right. Well,

11 it does need it. So that's part of your

12 goal --

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: -- and we'd

15 like to see that done as soon as possible.

16 Let's go to transportation aid. The

17 Governor's proposed budget is flat, no change

18 from last year for non-MTA transportation.

19 In Nassau County on Long Island, and in

20 Suffolk County as well, there's no increase

21 in funding, yet the increase in expenses is

22 tremendous.

23 Now, let me give you the example of

24 Nassau County, which went to 3P, public

1 private partnership, five years ago. They

2 were under MTA, called the Long Island Bus

3 division of MTA. Because of the financial

4 structure of Nassau County and because they

5 weren't able to continue to pay, MTA told

6 them, We're going to cut the service.

7 At that time, the county executive

8 then decided we'll go into privatization. A

9 study was done for a year and a half, finally

10 they did privatize, and the cost estimate --

11 and the cost result has been less than what

12 it would have been with MTA. However, costs

13 go up. Now it's been five years. For the

14 last two years they have had the same funding

15 from STOA, State Operating Assistance, and

16 this year the same thing.

17 Right now they've told the Nassau

18 County Legislature and they've told the

19 Nassau County Executive that unless something

20 is done, as of April 1st they're going to cut

21 routes tremendously. I'll get you a copy of

22 that. Fifty-four-hundred riders will be

23 impacted. Now, we've got almost 100,000

24 riders on a daily basis there. But 5400

1 riders, and most of these routes will cover

2 people like students, people who don't have

3 cars or other ways of transportation, and

4 minority communities that really need the bus

5 service. They can't afford a taxi or

6 anything like that.

7 And I'm hopeful that the Governor

8 is -- maybe you know -- in the Governor's

9 30-days amendments and in our negotiations,

10 that we can restore that. The same thing is

11 for upstate non-MTA transportation. They all

12 remain flat.

13 In the one I'm talking about in

14 Nassau County, they have a $6 million

15 deficit. It started at 12, they've trimmed

16 everything they can, it's down to $6 million.

17 The legislature has said they definitely want

18 to fund that. But as you may well know,

19 Nassau is under the Nassau Interim Financial

20 Authority, NIFA, and NIFA has refused that.

21 So we're trying now to get some way to

22 get that additional money, because those

23 riders who will be impacted are the most

24 needy riders, and -- but it has to be done.

1 The bus system operates on a cost-plus basis,

2 so it's not -- there's no fat in there.

3 So any influence you have on that,

4 we'll see what the Governor's proposals and

5 our negotiations are. But that's critical.

6 The other thing was mentioned already,

7 and Chairman Gantt said it, the blue signs.

8 I've had a lot of people -- and I'm in

9 Long Island, but you see a lot of them on the

10 Southern State Parkway, a lot of them out on

11 the expressways, and I've seen them coming

12 upstate. I'm told that the USDOT has told

13 you, told New York, stop putting them up;

14 correct? Stop putting any new ones up?

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We agreed to

16 hold any further sign installations while we

17 work through this workgroup process that

18 we've been engaged in. And we are engaged,

19 and they are engaged with us as well.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: And I know

21 this comes from news reports, but is there a

22 goal from the feds to say we'd like to get

23 those removed because they were done without

24 permission?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: The Federal

2 Highway has not said to me, remove the signs.

3 They are working with us.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: But they were

5 done, as I understand, without the permission

6 which is required before you put up some

7 signs like that. Am I correct on that?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, their

9 concern with the signs is, as an example, the

10 font size. Or the web address. Or

11 lower-case lettering on the signs. That is

12 their concern with the signs. The signs are

13 erected in -- following all the state and

14 federal DOT safety regulations with, you

15 know, breakaway poles, if you will, supports.

16 But their concerns are the font size, the web

17 addresses, and lower-case lettering.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Okay. Thank

19 you very much for your time.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you,

21 sir.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN McDONOUGH: Thank you,

23 Chairman.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

1 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

2 Simon and Assemblyman Skoufis.

3 Senator?

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

5 Mr. Chairman.

6 We've been joined by Senator Leroy

7 Comrie.

8 So, first of all, welcome. We're so

9 happy to have you. And I want to sincerely

10 thank you and Regions 4, 5 and 6, which are

11 in my Senate district, as you know, because

12 they've always been so responsive and they do

13 a great job. And I just want to say that

14 publicly.

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So beginning, I

17 want to put my upstate hat on for a second

18 and I want to talk about state transit

19 operating aid. So as you know, in the

20 Governor's budget proposal he recommends

21 $5 billion in transit operating assistance,

22 an increase of $30 million for the MTA. And

23 they would receive $4.5 billion, while

24 downstate non-MTA providers would receive

1 $303 million. Upstate operators would

2 receive $199 million. And that reflects an

3 increase that the Legislature put in last

4 year, but it's the same amount of the

5 operating funding as last year.

6 So my question is, do you believe that

7 there's a structural funding problem in

8 regards to upstate transit?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. And if you

11 believe that, what steps can be taken to

12 ensure that the upstate transit operators,

13 including Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester and

14 Albany have more reliable and predictable

15 funding? Because we need -- you know, the

16 Legislature obviously is willing to try to

17 address this problem, but we need partners.

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. Well,

19 look, the stark reality is that the construct

20 by which these organizations were built

21 versus downstate is very different from many

22 years ago. And you and I have discussed

23 this, as have others with me.

24 Where in the downstate they have

1 dedicated revenue streams that are built off

2 of their tax base, upstate communities did

3 not do that, never did that. And so now as,

4 you know, over the last 20 years there was an

5 exodus from upstate -- we all know the

6 story -- it's increasingly more difficult to

7 try to place an additional fee, if you will,

8 on existing tax structures. So there is an

9 imbalance between downstate and upstate.

10 That is a function of the Legislature.

11 I think it's a function as well of the State

12 of New York working with local communities to

13 identify where potentially additional

14 revenues, locally and/or state, might be

15 applied to mass transit in the upstate areas.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So as you point

17 out, the Legislature did step up last year

18 and put more money in the budget. But as I

19 said, we need partners. So hopefully we can

20 work together with you and the Governor to

21 try to correct some of the imbalance that

22 exists. Because there are so many people --

23 as you know, upstate, transportation is a

24 huge issue. I mean, you look at my district

1 that is so rural, it's a very, very

2 compelling issue. So I just wanted to ask

3 you about that.

4 Switching gears a little bit, the

5 Governor proposes enhanced enforcement powers

6 for the Public Transportation Safety Board,

7 including withholding statewide mass transit

8 operating assistance and other state aid.

9 This operating assistance, as you know so

10 well, is necessary for transit systems

11 throughout the state to remain operational.

12 And according to the bill copy in support of

13 the proposal, it says "The Federal Transit

14 Administration has determined that current

15 state law does not provide the PTSB with

16 sufficient enforcement power."

17 My question is, does the department

18 have any written documentation or

19 communication from the FTA which states that

20 New York must have this authority to withhold

21 the operating assistance in order to be in

22 compliance? Do we have --

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We do. We do.

24 It's the FTA who's forcing this on us. And

1 yes, we do.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So when did this

3 come up or emerge? Did it come up recently,

4 or -- I guess the Legislature would be, I

5 would be interested in seeing any

6 documentation or any kind of background

7 material on it as we go through the budget

8 process. It would be very helpful,

9 Commissioner.

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure. We'll

11 be happy to provide that.

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That's wonderful.

13 Thank you.

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: This has come

15 up in the last couple of years.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Has there

17 been a proposal legislatively, though, to

18 make this change?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Not that I'm

20 aware of.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Not until now.

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: But we work

23 closely with them on this as well. I mean,

24 obviously there's a lot of corridors in

1 New York and throughout the Northeast. So

2 we're engaged. But I'm happy to provide that

3 information to you.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That's wonderful.

5 Thank you.

6 Another issue is the Lower Hudson

7 Transit Link program. And in coordination

8 with the project to replace the Tappan Zee

9 Bridge, in late 2012 the Governor created a

10 Mass Transit Task Force to recommend regional

11 transit approvals. And in 2014, the task

12 force released its final report with

13 recommended transit improvements between

14 Rockland and Westchester counties across the

15 Tappan Zee Bridge. And now you, as the

16 department, are overseeing the Lower Hudson

17 Transit Link Program.

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: The first phase of

20 the program began in 2015, and it's scheduled

21 to be in operation in 2018, I believe. Is

22 that correct?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That's

24 correct.

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. So the first

2 phase of it includes the I-287 corridor

3 between Suffern to the west, White Plains to

4 the east. So we have some questions about

5 the time frame. What's the time frame for

6 Phase 2 and subsequent phases of the Lower

7 Hudson Transit Link program? Because we have

8 several members who are impacted by this.

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, that is

10 subject to discussions with the

11 municipalities. But I think I could probably

12 answer all of this for you to let you know we

13 are on track to meet the October 2018

14 service, which will open when the bridge

15 opens. We are in procurement for an operator

16 now, so I can't really talk about that. I'm

17 sure you can appreciate that.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I understand.

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: But we are

20 seeking -- right. We are seeking an operator

21 now. But we are on track to be open with BRT

22 on -- in October, rather, of 2018.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

24 Does that include a schedule for

1 further bus improvements down the road? I'm

2 sure people would --

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry, for

4 what?

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Will there be a

6 schedule for further bus improvements

7 established later on, do you think?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That's going

9 to be a discussion, you know, in the future.

10 I think there's a lot of desire to see that

11 happen. You know, we're really focused on

12 getting this open, right? And then as you

13 learn and watch and grow and build out a

14 system, that will be a conversation certainly

15 between the Executive, the Legislature, and

16 local communities.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

18 Another issue that's popped up is

19 related to divisible load permits. And the

20 Governor proposes to increase the statutory

21 cap on divisible load permits, thereby

22 raising $10.8 million in revenue over the

23 next five years. And as you know -- you know

24 better than anybody else what a divisible

1 load permit is. It's required to operate a

2 vehicle or a combination of vehicles to haul

3 weights exceeding the limitations that are

4 established in the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

5 So I hear quite often from some of my

6 local governments and so on about the wear

7 and tear on the roads. And I know that

8 you're very concerned about that also. So

9 what is causing this need for more divisible

10 load permits, given the increased potential

11 highway traffic safety risk -- because people

12 are concerned about that with the heavy

13 trucks -- and additional wear and tear on the

14 roads and bridges, especially in the context

15 of no additional funding for maintenance of

16 those very same roads and bridges?

17 So it looks like we're going to

18 dramatically increase the number of divisible

19 load permits, but there isn't any extra

20 funding to address some of the road issues

21 that may arise because of that. So what's

22 really spurring this?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, I think

24 there's an uptick in the industry. And

1 certainly the industry has been active on

2 that. That's a good sign, in the sense that

3 in that economy things are moving in the

4 right direction.

5 But we also -- and we're cognizant of

6 the fact that, you know, we want to

7 understand the weights of particular vehicles

8 that may be on a particular road. And so,

9 you know, we also have to and need to issue a

10 permit. And so we can restrict certain loads

11 to certain roadways. So we make sure, to the

12 extent possible, that we do so in a way that

13 does not damage existing infrastructure and

14 direct those traffic flows onto existing

15 infrastructure that can handle those weights.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. So I think

17 it's another justification, though, if we go

18 forward with this, to do -- as Senator Robach

19 pointed out -- more local road and bridge

20 funding, just to help the localities.

21 I wanted to discuss briefly the work

22 zone camera pilot program. And in the State

23 of the State, the Governor proposed a work

24 zone camera pilot program which actually

1 would place cameras in DOT work zones, and

2 signage alerting people to the cameras. DOT

3 would use its data to compile statistics and

4 study how to better enforce the law and make

5 work zones safer.

6 What is curious, however, is that

7 there is no funding for this in program that

8 we can identify in the Senate included in the

9 Governor's Executive Budget proposal. So how

10 does DOT expect to pay for this program, and

11 how much would the program cost?

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, it's

13 funded as part of the capital program. But

14 also we will be using it as part of our

15 construction contracts as well.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: It's funded as part

17 of the capital program? And how much would

18 that cost?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't have

20 that number off the top of my head. I can

21 get you that number.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That would be

23 helpful to get that. Thank you.

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I do want to

1 say, you know, work zone safety is extremely

2 important to us, for obvious reasons. And

3 there's been some tragic incidents that

4 happened last year. And it's something that

5 we're really focused on, and also working

6 with the new leadership at the Thruway on,

7 and the State Police, because we want to do

8 more to protect, you know, emergency workers,

9 state workers, folks who are working in these

10 interstates and these roadways. I don't

11 think we can ever do enough. So that's a big

12 focus for us going forward as well.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. And we

14 agree that we want our workers to be safe,

15 there's no question about that. And the

16 Legislature in the past, as you know, has

17 strengthened the laws in regards to work zone

18 safety.

19 But how do you anticipate using the

20 data that you would compile to change -- you

21 know, you're talking about this is important

22 to you, and I know that it is. But how would

23 you change enforcement and make the work

24 zones safer based on this data?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I

2 really -- I think it boils down to education

3 and enforcement. The best way to get people

4 to pay attention is to hit them in the

5 pocketbook, and that's really what it's going

6 to boil down to. But the data will show us,

7 you know, more heavily traveled areas, maybe

8 areas that have significantly higher speeds

9 than perhaps others. That helps us, that

10 data helps us then work with the State

11 Police, as an example, so that they can

12 target particular areas.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. So that's

14 the role that the State Police would have, is

15 that --

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, we don't

17 do enforcement.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Right. Right. But

19 you would be working closely, obviously, with

20 them?

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. But I

22 think that's the most effective way to get

23 people to pay attention.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. And

1 finally, I just have a quick question about

2 design-build, because you spoke about that

3 earlier. But has the department accounted

4 for any savings associated with the

5 design-build? Have you come up with any kind

6 of study or report on that as far as what

7 savings might be there for the taxpayers?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, we have

9 data. And savings isn't always in money,

10 it's in time. Because time is money. But we

11 do have documentation to that, and we can --

12 we can demonstrate where the acceleration of

13 projects, because of design-build, has been

14 more effective.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That's great. And,

16 you know, we want those projects -- as

17 Senator Robach said, we want them out the

18 door, we want them done, we want them built,

19 we want people put to work, we want a better

20 transportation system. So that's great if

21 you have that data, and we would look forward

22 to getting that. So thank you, Commissioner.

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

1 Assemblyman -- Chairman -- Dinowitz.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Thank you.

3 Good morning. I appreciate your

4 advocacy, your support for design-build.

5 It's my understanding that New York City is

6 not included in design-build. And I believe

7 that the de Blasio administration very much

8 wants to be, but they're not and there's no

9 immediate plans for that to happen. Do you

10 have any idea why that's the case?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: What I know is

12 the Executive is supportive of design-build

13 for New York City. I've heard that there's

14 been legislative concerns. That's the extent

15 of what I know.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: So is the

17 Governor in the budget doing anything that

18 would make it so that New York would be

19 covered with design-build?

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I think that's

21 a function of the negotiation between the

22 Executive and the Legislature. My

23 understanding is he is supportive of it.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay, so we can

1 take that to the bank, then.

2 On a different area, the last budget

3 included $5 million to study the feasibility

4 of a tunnel connecting Long Island with

5 either the Bronx, Westchester, or maybe even

6 Connecticut. Did they start the study? Was

7 the study completed? What was the result of

8 the study?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: It's been

10 awarded. It's been awarded, and that's

11 starting soon, correct? It's underway. It's

12 underway.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: So they

14 actually have started the study?

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: They've

16 started, yes.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: On another

18 issue, the budget proposal includes

19 $200 million to build an interconnected

20 multi-use trail, the Empire State Trail. Is

21 that done through DOT?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Some elements

23 of that are done through DOT. There's other

24 agencies involved, like Parks, of course.

1 Canal Corporation.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: So do you know

3 how much of that trail -- how much of the

4 funding would be going to upstate, the Albany

5 area, downstate, the City? Is there any kind

6 of breakdown?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I'd say

8 the majority of it is upstate, north of the

9 Tappan Zee, if that's our marker. The budget

10 proposal is for $53 million to begin that

11 work this year. We are already actively

12 engaged in working with Parks on that.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay. Because

14 some of us in the city, particularly in the

15 Bronx, have been working for a number of

16 years to try to gain river access along the

17 Hudson River, which I have the entire Hudson

18 River waterfront in the Bronx, such as it is.

19 And presumably that could be used to

20 help make that a reality. Do you know if

21 there's any discussion of that happening?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't know

23 if there's been any discussion of that. I

24 think it's connecting to that, though, so

1 that you could go from the Bronx to Canada,

2 you could go from New York City to Buffalo

3 when the project is complete.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Right. But you

5 don't know if there's anything specific to

6 help make that a reality along the Bronx

7 portion of the Hudson River waterfront?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I can't tell

9 you with specificity today, but I can get you

10 that answer.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: I would

12 appreciate it.

13 Also the budget proposes $5.5 billion

14 in the coming year for the DOT capital plan,

15 but of that only about 3 percent, or

16 $173 million, is allocated for alternative

17 modes of transportation outside of the city,

18 such as aviation, rail, non-MTA mass transit.

19 Considering that the Governor has set

20 as a goal a 40 percent reduction of

21 greenhouse gas emissions from the 1990 levels

22 by the year 2030, do you think that we're

23 really doing enough in that respect

24 considering the very tiny portion that's

1 going in that direction?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I think

3 when we work on DOT projects, we take all of

4 that into consideration, including air

5 quality emissions, impact on neighborhoods,

6 and the like. And I think I can say to you

7 that I believe we are making good progress in

8 that area.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay. In

10 another area -- and we're going to discuss

11 this with the MTA later -- but the budget

12 cuts $65 million from the General Fund, money

13 that would otherwise go to the MTA to replace

14 money lost because of exclusions that were

15 imposed with respect to the mobility tax. So

16 those funds, I guess they're kind of DOT

17 funds. Do you have an opinion about that?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, we're a

19 pass-through. And it's related to payroll

20 taxes. I don't want to speak for the MTA,

21 you'll speak to them later. But it's a cap

22 that was placed because of the payroll taxes

23 and the elimination of those downstate.

24 Actually, the MTA is receiving about

1 $29 million more in cash in this budget.

2 But again, I think those questions are

3 better suited for the MTA later today.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Yeah, we'll

5 discuss that later. They're really not

6 getting more cash, but ...

7 Now, you had mentioned earlier the

8 Kew Gardens Interchange. So that's the

9 Van Wyck Expressway project; correct?

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: As part of that

12 project, is there mass transit access to JFK

13 as part of the revitalization of that area?

14 Is part of it for mass transit?

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right, so

16 we'll add a fourth lane. There will be no

17 right-of-way impacts on private property.

18 And there will be a managed lane as well.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay, thank you

20 very much.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

23 Senator?

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

1 Senator Martin Dilan, Transportation

2 ranker.

3 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

4 Good morning, Commissioner.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

6 SENATOR DILAN: I want to follow-up on

7 design-build. I know it's been talked about,

8 but I just want to be clear as to why

9 New York City was excluded from the

10 design-build proposal. For example, in

11 New York City, Brooklyn, we have the

12 Kosciuszko Bridge, which is a design-build

13 project. However, you go down to the BQE,

14 down the road a bit. But you can't use

15 design-build. And you mentioned that the

16 Governor is supportive, you're supportive.

17 So why was it excluded? And you mentioned

18 that it's up to negotiations. So that means

19 that if we request it, it will happen?

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, what I

21 said was my understanding is the Executive is

22 supportive of it, and that my understanding

23 is that there were some legislative concerns.

24 I know not what those are. But again, this

1 is the time where the legislative and the

2 Executive have these discussions in a

3 negotiation. And this would be one of those

4 negotiations that you would take.

5 SENATOR DILAN: But if it's good for

6 Kosciuszko Bridge, why isn't it good for BQE?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Why is the K

8 Bridge good for DOT with a design-build?

9 SENATOR DILAN: Yeah.

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Because we're

11 delivering it faster. And it's improving

12 access, particularly for freight.

13 SENATOR DILAN: So basically what

14 you're saying is that you would support it,

15 design-build for New York City?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I think

17 design-build is a good tool. I don't think

18 it should replace design-bid-build. But I

19 think it's a very good tool to have in your

20 toolbox, and it's proven for the Department

21 of Transportation to deliver larger projects

22 more efficiently.

23 SENATOR DILAN: So it's open to

24 negotiation during this process, then.

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That's

2 correct.

3 SENATOR DILAN: All right, thank you.

4 With respect to the Federal Highway

5 funds and the distribution of that money,

6 it's my understanding that New York City is

7 only getting 18 percent apportioned to it of

8 the entire federal allotment. Can you

9 explain the disparity and the decrease in

10 funding? It's my understanding that it's a

11 decrease of about 35 percent.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'd have to

13 say, Senator, I'm not -- I don't -- I'm

14 confused, because that's not the case.

15 SENATOR DILAN: Can you explain, then,

16 the apportionment? How much is New York City

17 getting out of the entire allocation of

18 federal money?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Forty-seven

20 percent.

21 SENATOR DILAN: Forty-seven percent is

22 the correct number?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah. That's

24 not been decreased.

1 SENATOR DILAN: It has not been

2 decreased.

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No.

4 SENATOR DILAN: Okay, my understanding

5 is different. So if that number is correct

6 or incorrect, I guess we can follow up later.

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure.

8 SENATOR DILAN: Okay, thank you.

9 Just one more question with respect to

10 the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway. It's my

11 understanding that the city is proposing some

12 reconstruction, and they're proposing about

13 the -- the cost will be about $1.7 billion

14 over five years. Is there any money being

15 allocated to that project by the state with

16 respect to the federal funding?

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. That is

18 an unbuilt section of that highway, and it is

19 maintained by the City of New York.

20 SENATOR DILAN: And there would be no

21 contribution from the state?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No.

23 SENATOR DILAN: At all?

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No.

1 SENATOR DILAN: And why not?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Because we

3 have equally large projects to do on state

4 systems across New York State. And in the

5 City.

6 SENATOR DILAN: I believe that that

7 portion of the expressway is a very important

8 road and the various bridges there are a big

9 asset for the State of New York. So I think

10 we really need to look into that.

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Okay.

12 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

15 We've been joined by Assemblywomen

16 Tremaine Wright and Yuh-Line Niou.

17 Mr. Oaks?

18 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, we've also

19 been joined by Assemblyman Murray.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Next to question,

21 Assemblyman Ra.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chairman.

23 Commissioner, I just wanted to get

24 into -- Assemblyman McDonough had mentioned

1 some of the highways, parkways on

2 Long Island. But in recent years, going

3 through the district I represent, you know, I

4 have Jericho Turnpike, which a lot of work

5 has been done on, and then there's Hempstead

6 Turnpike, where there were -- there was a

7 major safety initiative a few years back, so

8 we now have some medians along different

9 strips, a few new traffic lights, a lot of

10 new "No Turn on Red" signs, which has stopped

11 traffic from moving too quickly -- which,

12 depending on who you ask, is a good thing or

13 a bad thing at times.

14 But now a lot of the focus has shifted

15 on the actual condition of the roadway

16 itself, and there are stretches of that that

17 I hear about in my office on a regular basis.

18 Any particular plans to do something

19 more comprehensive along that stretch in

20 terms of the condition of the roadway, like

21 was done on Jericho Turnpike?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, and as

23 you point out, we have done a lot of work in

24 that particular area. And again, we continue

1 to assess conditions going forward. We want

2 to build those into our capital plan. We're

3 starting to develop the next capital plan,

4 although we're only in Year 2 here. So

5 systems such as that are all looked at and

6 are measured to be included into the next

7 five-year capital plan.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. Because as you

9 may be familiar, you know, that's one of the

10 main roads as you're coming in from the

11 Queens-Nassau border in Elmont, coming into

12 my hometown in Franklin Square and through

13 West Hempstead. And, you know, there's I

14 think been a big push along that stretch to

15 revitalize the business community, fill some

16 of the empty storefronts. And I think having

17 a roadway that is in good condition is

18 definitely an important part of that when

19 people are looking for a location to come and

20 open a business.

21 So I appreciate a continuing dialogue

22 on that topic, and it being, you know,

23 hopefully a priority going forward.

24 Thank you.

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

3 Senator?

4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

5 The next to testify is Senator Croci.

6 SENATOR CROCI: Thank you very much,

7 Madam Ranking Member.

8 Commissioner, thank you very much for

9 your testimony here today. Also thank you

10 for your service to the state, not only as

11 commissioner but your willingness, after

12 being the mayor of such a large city, to

13 continue to serve.

14 I had a question regarding some of

15 your testimony. The rest area/welcome center

16 on the Long Island Expressway between Exit 51

17 and 52, what was the total cost of that

18 project?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So DOT

20 constructed the building, and it was

21 $20.2 million.

22 SENATOR CROCI: Does that include all

23 of the change orders?

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't know.

1 There was other funders, other agencies, ESD

2 and such. The construction cost for the

3 building that we built was $20.2 million.

4 SENATOR CROCI: That came from DOT?

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah.

6 SENATOR CROCI: Very good. Has the

7 Comptroller audited that project, by any

8 chance? Is there any information --

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't know.

10 SENATOR CROCI: So it's my

11 understanding that there was equipment that

12 showed up to the site for the construction of

13 that facility before the notice to proceed

14 has been received or a contract signed, is

15 that correct?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That's true.

17 SENATOR CROCI: And why was that, sir?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I ordered it.

19 SENATOR CROCI: Okay.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That was the

21 shrub clearing that took place. And I take

22 responsibility for that. State-owned

23 property, I went in, I cleared -- began to

24 clear the property. And I did that without

1 really communicating fully to the local

2 community.

3 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. How many

4 conversations did you have directly with

5 Governor Cuomo about this specific project?

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Not that many.

7 I couldn't give you a number.

8 SENATOR CROCI: But you did

9 communicate directly with him on the project?

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure.

11 SENATOR CROCI: Was this a

12 design-build, in your opinion? Is this a

13 design-build project?

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: This wasn't a

15 design-build, no.

16 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. Can you explain

17 to me how it was done so quickly, the bidding

18 process, the procurement process, then?

19 Because this happened very rapidly.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, we also

21 contracted to have them working double

22 shifts. So that's a distinction there.

23 But we worked with approvals through

24 the Comptroller's office. We worked with the

1 contractor and the subs to escalate the work.

2 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. And were all

3 the proper permits in place for all of the

4 work?

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes. Yes,

6 absolutely.

7 SENATOR CROCI: Where does the septic

8 go from the welcome center?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I think it

10 goes to -- well, it goes to the county

11 facility.

12 SENATOR CROCI: The county facility?

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry, did

14 you say septic?

15 SENATOR CROCI: The septic. The

16 sewage.

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: There is not a

18 septic system. There is a main-line sewer

19 system.

20 SENATOR CROCI: A forced main?

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Forced main.

22 It's not a septic system.

23 SENATOR CROCI: And where does that

24 go, sir?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: It goes to the

2 plant. I can't give you the specific plant

3 in Suffolk County. They approved it.

4 SENATOR CROCI: A county facility? So

5 there was a --

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: They approved

7 it.

8 SENATOR CROCI: -- there was an

9 authorized permit from the Department of

10 Health in Suffolk County?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes, sir.

12 SENATOR CROCI: And how much did the

13 septic -- or the sewer line, the forced main,

14 as you've said, how much did that cost?

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'd have to

16 double-check. I don't know off the top of my

17 head. A couple million dollars.

18 SENATOR CROCI: But that's outside of

19 the 20 you said, or 20-plus?

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Correct.

21 SENATOR CROCI: So the cost of the

22 project was actually much higher?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: The cost of

24 the building, to erect the building, was

1 $20.2 million.

2 SENATOR CROCI: Was this a change

3 order?

4 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. We were

5 prepared, if we did not get the requisite

6 approvals from the Suffolk County Water

7 Authority, to do a different system. But in

8 fact they did approve the project.

9 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. Was there any

10 digging done in the Towns of Huntington or

11 Islip, streets dug up or -- was any of that

12 work done in accordance with this forced

13 main?

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I can't tell

15 you specifically the very direction of which

16 that pipe ran, so I don't know the answer to

17 that. But clearly we had to put a pipe in

18 the ground, so there was digging somewhere.

19 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. And all the

20 permits were obtained from the two townships?

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

22 SENATOR CROCI: Yes. Did a different

23 contractor perform the sewer work than did

24 the original construction work?

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I believe so.

2 I don't know specifically who.

3 SENATOR CROCI: And how were they

4 selected so quickly?

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I wouldn't say

6 it was very quickly. That's a -- the process

7 by which that installation occurred was not

8 out of the ordinary.

9 SENATOR CROCI: Was it RFP'd or bid?

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Bid.

11 SENATOR CROCI: It was bid. And there

12 was a sealed bid and it was opened --

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We're happy to

14 get you all that information.

15 SENATOR CROCI: That would be very

16 helpful. Thank you.

17 Can you explain why there was such a

18 rush to complete this welcome center?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I -- how

20 do you define rush? I mean, you know, our

21 goal was to get a welcome center up certainly

22 during the summer months. And as it turned

23 out, it happened to be late fall. That

24 welcome center has been a huge success, even

1 with some particular community members who

2 were opposed to it.

3 So all in all, we think it's been a

4 tremendous asset to that particular region.

5 SENATOR CROCI: And you're saying that

6 the RFP, the procurement process, the bidding

7 process was done in accordance with normal

8 state processes? It was not a design-build?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We followed

10 all procurement guidelines.

11 SENATOR CROCI: Procurement guidelines

12 for normal state bidding processes?

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Procurement

14 guidelines impact everything that we do or

15 any other agency does when you go to let a

16 bid.

17 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. Was a state of

18 emergency ever implemented in this process?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: For what

20 reason?

21 SENATOR CROCI: That's what I'm

22 asking. Was that used at any point?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. There was

24 no state of emergency.

1 SENATOR CROCI: All right. So can I

2 ask you, was the article 3B, which you've

3 signed, I'm sure, as a mayor and I as a

4 supervisor signed, was that ever implemented

5 in the procurement or bidding process in this

6 specific project?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: If it was

8 required to be omitted -- or if it was

9 required to be submitted, it was.

10 SENATOR CROCI: So this was done

11 pursuant to a disaster declaration?

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: This was not

13 done pursuant to a disaster declaration. We

14 did not follow the federal process. We did

15 not need to, since there was no federal

16 funding involved.

17 SENATOR CROCI: But there was an

18 emergency declaration used?

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Not that I'm

20 aware of.

21 SENATOR CROCI: So you said there was

22 some sort of a state of emergency or

23 emergency --

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, no, no.

1 You said that. You asked me if there was a

2 state of emergency, and I replied "For what?"

3 SENATOR CROCI: Was an emergency of

4 any kind used by an Executive agency in this

5 case to speed up the implementation of the

6 bidding or RFP process for this welcome

7 center?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Not to my

9 knowledge.

10 SENATOR CROCI: Not to your knowledge.

11 Okay, thank you.

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

14 Assemblywoman Hunter.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Thank you,

16 Mr. Chairman.

17 And thank you, Commissioner Driscoll.

18 Always good to see you away from Syracuse.

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Nice to see

20 you as well.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: First, I must

22 say -- I have to thank you for my travel here

23 when I came Monday morning. There was a huge

24 snowstorm in Syracuse -- I don't know when

1 was the last time you were back -- and the

2 Thruway was exceptional. So giving you

3 credit where credit is due, it was awesome.

4 And --

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I'd like

6 to take that credit, but that's actually

7 Bill Finch. But I will pass that along.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Okay. Well,

9 I'm hoping it's going to be just as awesome

10 on the way home when I leave here this

11 afternoon.

12 Just a few questions for you. As you

13 know, there's this wonderful bridge gutting

14 the City of Syracuse, and we are in the

15 process now of trying to figure out what we

16 want to do with this bridge. And included in

17 the Executive's Budget is money -- I think

18 it's $2 million -- for a survey or a plan.

19 And I wanted to know, how long is this plan

20 going to take, knowing that we have been

21 working on, you have been working on, many

22 people have been working on plans and studies

23 for several years?

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: So where are

2 we?

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Where are we.

4 So as you accurately point out, we have

5 retained an independent consultant, who is

6 doing an evaluation based on project criteria

7 that all other related projects to the I-81

8 corridor have gone through. And they will do

9 the same with what was a request from some

10 members of the state delegation to look at a

11 tunnel option, a tunnel option with a

12 community grid, a depressed highway, and a

13 depressed highway with a community grid as

14 well.

15 That's really just started. We

16 anticipate it's going to take at least a

17 minimum of six months. But, you know, we'll

18 hear more from the consultant as they move

19 along.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: So wasn't some

21 of that information already completed prior

22 to another consultant? It seems -- I know

23 it's a new entity and they, you know, want to

24 gather and compile their own. But this --

1 not a combo option, but the tunnel option or

2 depressed highway option, was obviously

3 already considered and rejected previously,

4 from conversations obviously with my

5 colleagues relative to cost, wanting to get

6 actually what is the cost, and having heard

7 from many people around the surrounding towns

8 and villages relative to this.

9 But I'm just trying to get a sense

10 for -- and I know you and I had this

11 conversation, it seems like forever ago, that

12 we're still having more conversations about

13 this. So if we're talking about maybe six

14 months for this plan to come from the

15 consultant -- and then what's the next

16 process after that?

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, it's an

18 analysis. And they have received all of the

19 documentation that DOT has and had received

20 relative to the tunnel option. They are

21 doing that independently of the Department of

22 Transportation engineers.

23 As I said, you know, we're hoping, of

24 course, that that could be completed within

1 six months, but we have not had any more

2 communication with them to date. But we

3 certainly hope it will be six months.

4 At that point a conversation will

5 ensue. We'll see what the result is from

6 that analysis of the tunnel option. And I'd

7 like to expand a little bit and clarify,

8 after the multiple revisions that we had gone

9 through on the numerous projects that DOT

10 staff had evaluated, as you may know, we came

11 down to two remaining projects, a viaduct

12 replacement, simply building, rebuilding the

13 viaduct in place -- although certainly wider,

14 straighter -- and then a community grid

15 option.

16 Those are in a current DEIS. Those

17 are currently with Federal Highway. They are

18 going through a review and will be providing

19 those comments back to DOT, that's part of

20 the normal process. DOT will need to answer

21 the questions and respond to the comments.

22 They would go back to Federal Highway.

23 We would not move for a final record

24 of decision on those two, because certainly

1 we want to understand what the result is.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: So we're going

3 to get them all together, and not the two

4 DEIS studies we've been waiting for coming

5 forward until the consultant's plan is done,

6 and we'll receive it all together?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. Right.

8 We wouldn't release those until we have the

9 completed work by the independent engineering

10 firm.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: And obviously

12 this was included in the Governor's State of

13 the State, so is it indicative upon the

14 Legislature passing the budget for the

15 $2 million for the consultant to start

16 working? Or has he already started, or she?

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. Because

18 we had $15 million in the budget last year

19 for this work. So it's coming out of DOT for

20 that work, the $2 million.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Okay. So it's

22 already been contracted and they're already

23 working.

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: They're

1 already underway.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Okay. Relative

3 to URI monies, as you know, we were the

4 recipients in 2015 of the half a billion

5 dollars, and there were a couple of projects

6 included. To date, I don't think any of that

7 money has been disbursed for any of those big

8 projects that were included in the URI.

9 But there were a couple of projects in

10 there -- agribusiness was one of them, and an

11 inland port was another one -- which would

12 enhance economic development, obviously, in

13 the Central New York area. But both of those

14 projects would have huge impacts on highway

15 travel.

16 And I wanted to know, are we including

17 in URI monies or in your capital plan, when

18 these awards are given, there's going to be

19 included increased truck traffic? So wanting

20 to know who's going to pay for the corrosion,

21 erosion, the roads and bridges, the new

22 things that need to happen. Is that part of

23 the URI money, or is that supposed to be a

24 separate pot with you relative to making

1 enhancements for new truck traffic?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, we have

3 a maintenance budget in place now. We've

4 always had one. That will continue going

5 forward. If -- you know, depending on site

6 location, if there's enhancements to a

7 particular section of highway that would need

8 to be done, DOT would be responsible for

9 that, in part and parcel with the URI funding

10 of the inland port as an example.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: So it is

12 separate, it's not going to be from URI

13 money, it would be part of --

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Correct.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: And potentially

16 you'd make amendments, I guess, to your

17 capital plan -- if, say, we were on board

18 with our inland port in saying, okay, now we

19 need to create or renovate something, your

20 plan would be amended based on all of these

21 new activities? And not just in any area,

22 obviously, others would have the same --

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, actually

24 what my plan would be would be to work with

1 the local Regional Council to see if I

2 couldn't get them to pay for those costs

3 first. So that's what -- that would be my

4 approach, to work with the local folks, who

5 you know, to understand what the cost

6 implications may be relative to system

7 impacts that would coincide with the

8 development of, as you mentioned, an inland

9 port.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Right.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HUNTER: Thank you,

13 Chairman.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator? Oh,

15 before that, we've been joined by Assemblyman

16 Phil Steck.

17 Senator?

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

19 Mr. Chairman.

20 Our next speaker is Senator Todd

21 Kaminsky.

22 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Thank you,

23 Chairwoman.

24 Good morning, Commissioner. How are

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1 you?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

3 Great.

4 SENATOR KAMINSKY: You and I have

5 spoken both publicly and privately about

6 Nassau Expressway, New York Route 878 in my

7 district, as a perennially flooded and

8 congested roadway, the source of a tremendous

9 amount of complaints for decades, frankly.

10 And I just want to follow up and see if you

11 have a plan to tackle that.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, we do.

13 And I'll say that your advocacy led to that

14 being included in the five-year capital plan.

15 And it is currently slated for 1920 {sic}.

16 So it's in the plan.

17 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay, that's great.

18 Okay. And are you able to say whether

19 there's a multi-million-dollar commitment to

20 serious overhaul of that roadway?

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm here to

22 say that we're committed to the extreme

23 weather hardening program for that stretch of

24 highway that you've advocated for, yes.

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1 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Do you know at what

2 point you will be in a position to announce

3 some of the specifics, whether it's raising

4 the road or sinking the lights, or whatever

5 it may be, along with the timeline involved

6 with that project?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: You know, I

8 don't know now and I don't want to speculate.

9 I know that, you know, we have engineering

10 staff, DOT staff, going through evaluations

11 on that.

12 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay. I would love

13 to continue working with you on this and

14 invite you down to the district, certainly

15 whether it's the potholes now or the flooding

16 in the spring, or the flooding that actually

17 happens all the time. I would love to

18 continue talking with you about this.

19 But this is really great news. We've

20 been waiting for, you know, a commitment in

21 the capital plan for a long time. And I

22 think my constituents can be very happy.

23 Obviously waiting to hear the details, but I

24 am very much looking forward to the future

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1 progress on this.

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Absolutely.

3 SENATOR KAMINSKY: While I have you

4 here, I just want to ask you about the Diesel

5 Emissions Reduction Act, and if you could

6 tell us where we are with respect to its

7 implementation.

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm sorry, I

9 couldn't hear that.

10 SENATOR KAMINSKY: DERA, Diesel

11 Emissions Reduction Act.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Diesel

13 emissions, right. Most of our fleet has been

14 turned over to accomplish that goal. So we

15 have -- you know, we've really moved along

16 reducing diesel emissions on DOT fleet.

17 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay. And are

18 we -- are we -- are you able to say what

19 percentage of state vehicles are now in

20 compliance with it?

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I'm not, but I

22 can get that for you.

23 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Or is it fair to

24 say there's a dedicated effort toward getting

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1 that done?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I can tell you

3 that there is a dedicated effort on those

4 conversions, absolutely.

5 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay. Well, thanks

6 for your time today. And just generally, in

7 Long Island we have a ton of road issues.

8 Your staff has, you know, been very

9 responsive, and I really appreciate that as

10 we continue to move Long Island forward. So

11 thanks for your time today.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

14 Assemblyman Skoufis.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Thank you,

16 Chairman.

17 Good morning, Commissioner.

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Good to see you.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good to see

21 you again.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: I say this every

23 year, but it's worth repeating --

24 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Microphone.

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1 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: It should be on.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: That's the one that

3 doesn't work. Take one of the others.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Okay, we're on.

5 Your Region 8 staff is exemplary.

6 It's always a pleasure working with them, and

7 so I thank you.

8 I also want to thank you personally

9 for your efforts in advancing the Exit 131

10 project. I've brought that up as well every

11 year at these hearings. We've personally

12 spoken about that, and I know that's been a

13 local very high priority for really almost

14 20 years. I come from the Woodbury Town

15 Board, and that's been a priority there, and

16 it's great to see that accelerated this year

17 to November.

18 I have a few questions. Route 17,

19 going through Orange County specifically,

20 there's a significant amount of development

21 that's slated for the coming years.

22 Certainly we have the casino further up into

23 Sullivan County. We have possibly Legoland

24 coming to Goshen in the district I represent.

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1 And already, any summer Friday or Sunday,

2 it's a parking lot on Route 17.

3 There have been some discussions and I

4 believe a study funded with federal dollars

5 to explore how to increase capacity on

6 Route 17. I believe the study called for a

7 widening to three lanes in each direction. I

8 wanted to see if there's been any further

9 conversation on your end to that end,

10 especially in light of the planned

11 development.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. So we

13 continue to evaluate that particular corridor

14 because, as you point out, you've got the

15 casino and then potentially Legoland.

16 And you should know, and others should

17 know, that we are working with the developer

18 and the town on the potential of Legoland and

19 looking at improvements that can be made to

20 our system that will create a better flow of

21 traffic should Legoland potentially arrive.

22 Which, candidly, that's a nice problem to

23 have, right?

24 So we're hopeful that that does

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1 happen. We are a partner in those

2 discussions. And the region is actively

3 engaged.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Thank you. So

5 that happens to lead to my next question. I

6 know that as part of these Legoland

7 conversations, they're developing an

8 environmental impact statement and a concept

9 that I've supported that most people seem to

10 believe locally will help improve the traffic

11 flow on local roads, is shifting Exit 125 and

12 creating a flyover to the opposite side of

13 Route 17 where Legoland is slated to be.

14 My understanding -- and I know there

15 was a press release that went out from Merlin

16 Entertainment last week. My understanding is

17 that those conversations are moving in a

18 positive direction, I think it's fair to say.

19 Can you shed any light on where exactly we

20 are with a flyover, and how it impacts the

21 conversion of 17 to an interstate, which has

22 been long planned? And importantly, who is

23 paying for this flyover? Legoland, Merlin

24 Entertainment, has already been given

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1 $7.1 million in state taxpayer dollars

2 primarily from the REDC awards. They are

3 probably going to get a very significant

4 PILOT, which I have deep concerns with and

5 have come out and publicly opposed. I

6 hesitate to give any more public money to a

7 multi-multi-billion-dollar corporation to get

8 this park up and running.

9 So if you can answer that question

10 specifically and also touch on where exactly

11 we are with the flyover.

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I can

13 tell you that most developers want somebody

14 else to pay for things.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Sure.

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: And that's the

17 way it works.

18 We're in discussions with them. They

19 still need to provide us analysis with

20 respect to the property, how they would build

21 it out, the exits -- all of the components

22 that would impact the mobility of the traffic

23 flow going in and out.

24 A flyover has been discussed. We're

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1 not there. The town's not there. So there's

2 still a lot of discussion that has to go

3 forward.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Okay. What

5 other alternatives would there be to a

6 flyover in terms of improving flow there?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That's going

8 to depend on the traffic analysis that they

9 provide, the continuum of information that we

10 request from them relative to the traffic

11 anticipation that they have, and as we factor

12 in existing traffic flows.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Sure. Have you

14 had any conversations about who's paying for

15 this?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: You have not,

18 okay.

19 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No. I have

20 not been at that table yet. I'm having --

21 the region is working with the town and the

22 engineers on some of these evaluations.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: And lastly,

24 changing gears, late last year the -- or the

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1 middle of last year, the Federal Highway

2 Administration came out and directed states,

3 or at least New York, to repurpose these old

4 congressional earmarks from 10-plus years ago

5 and actually use them or lose them. Can you

6 explain to me how that process worked

7 vis-a-vis the municipalities and working with

8 them? You know, I've got some concerns about

9 how this played out.

10 You know, one example, the Town of

11 Blooming Grove had a $900,000 earmark from

12 former Congresswoman Sue Kelly to make some

13 significant improvements to a dangerous

14 intersection. The DOT -- and my

15 understanding is this was coordinated through

16 Albany, not through the regional offices --

17 the DOT came back and basically said, you

18 know, this costs a lot more than $900,000,

19 we're going to move this.

20 And it got moved not even just to

21 somewhere else in the town or somewhere else

22 in the county, it got moved to Rockland

23 County -- which I also represent -- but to a

24 totally different county. And my

110

1 understanding is that there wasn't any

2 accommodation or offer to use the award for

3 another project in that municipality, it was

4 sort of just totally shifted away once it was

5 determined that that project couldn't be met.

6 So could you explain how that works

7 and what can be done in situations like that?

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I can

9 explain it, but not in the time allotment

10 that you have.

11 (Laughter.)

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: It's a very

13 complicated process. It's federally driven.

14 So when you cite that the project was moved

15 to Rockland, because the federal government

16 said that the project would need to be

17 shifted only within a 50-mile radius of the

18 original project.

19 Many of the projects across the board

20 hadn't gotten local support or funding. And

21 so the federal requirements of the orphan

22 earmarks were such that they could move to an

23 adjacent congressional district, if that was

24 a project that fit the criteria under their

111

1 guidelines.

2 So there's been a lot of discussion

3 and, candidly, a lot of confusion. I think

4 maybe people felt, and maybe rightfully so,

5 that DOT kind of drew up those rules, but in

6 fact we followed the federal process that's a

7 requirement.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN SKOUFIS: Thank you.

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Okay?

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

11 Senator?

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

13 Our next speaker is Senator Kennedy.

14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,

15 Commissioner. Thank you for your service.

16 Thank you for your testimony today.

17 The second round of the Buffalo

18 Billion set aside $5 million for the light

19 rail expansion to Amherst, $20 million for

20 the DL&W terminal redevelopment, both

21 projects long overdue. Very appreciative of

22 that inclusion in this year's budget.

23 What's the time frame for the

24 redevelopment of the DL&W project?

112

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: You know, I

2 don't know it off the top of my head, to be

3 honest with you, Senator. But I think we're

4 probably looking to do that in the next year

5 to two. Lot of rail activity potentially in

6 the Buffalo/Western New York region.

7 SENATOR KENNEDY: And then in regard

8 to DL&W, how does the state envision

9 financing the actual construction of the

10 light rail extension?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: You know,

12 again, that's a federal -- it's an FTA

13 program. So we'll look to our federal

14 partners, which is where we get the bulk of

15 our funding, of course, for rail

16 improvements. And we'll work with the

17 partners on that.

18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay. And the

19 Buffalo Billion funds are administered by

20 ESD, as you're well aware.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

22 SENATOR KENNEDY: How much of a role

23 will the DOT play in the project development?

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I mean

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1 certainly we're available to ESD so they have

2 an understanding, from our perspective -- you

3 know, for rail or any project that might be

4 transportation-related, we'll work with ESD

5 on that.

6 SENATOR KENNEDY: I want to switch

7 from the rail to the air. You and I have

8 spoken countless times about the Buffalo

9 Niagara International Airport. It is in my

10 district in its entirety. As you're aware,

11 the airport's undergoing much-needed

12 redevelopment. It serves roughly 5 million

13 passengers, 40 percent of which are from

14 Canada. The estimated economic impact is

15 about a billion dollars a year, supporting

16 15,000 jobs. So it's a major economic driver

17 in our community.

18 Is there any funding in the budget

19 proposal that would support this -- Buffalo

20 Niagara International Airport's planned

21 expansion and renovation?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, outside

23 of the regional upstate airport dollars that

24 are still available -- and there's some -- I

114

1 can't think of any off the top of my head.

2 As we did discuss, though, I would

3 encourage you to also work with the new award

4 through the URI to see if that's

5 another avenue. So I would chase all of

6 those.

7 SENATOR KENNEDY: So I encourage your

8 department to find funding for the airport.

9 I know we're investing heavily in upstate

10 airport redevelopment. It's a major piece of

11 this budget proposal. We have to make sure

12 we're investing in the Buffalo Niagara

13 International Airport because of its economic

14 impact on our community.

15 I want to switch gears again back to

16 the STOA funding. Now, I've heard and you've

17 heard today from all across the state STOA

18 funding has been a problem for years. It

19 seems like year after year we keep coming

20 back to the same problem. It was refreshing

21 for me to hear you say today that you

22 recognize that the formula is problematic,

23 for upstate especially and for Long Island.

24 But, you know, in my community, the

115

1 community that I represent, the City of

2 Buffalo, the Town of Cheektowaga, the city of

3 Lackawanna, there are many, many folks that

4 are dependent upon a robust transportation

5 system, a regional public transit system, the

6 NFTA. And, you know, the NFTA has been

7 hamstrung because of the lack of STOA funds,

8 based upon a formula that you admitted today

9 is problematic.

10 So, you know, I guess it has been year

11 after year of us coming back -- I'd like to

12 know what you and your department will do

13 differently. And will you commit today to

14 working with us to rectify this formula so

15 that next year we don't have to be back here?

16 First of all, I'd like to rectify the

17 budget to bring it up to speed so that we can

18 make the NFTA whole -- to which, quite

19 frankly, they're underfunded compared to the

20 rest of the state by millions of dollars.

21 There are routes that have been cut. There

22 are people in my district, particularly in

23 the First Ward of Lackawanna, that have to

24 walk over a mile to find the nearest bus --

116

1 if there's a bus running that day at all.

2 There is a contract dispute that's upwards of

3 eight years. So this lack of funding is

4 really bottoming out the ability for the NFTA

5 to function at a level that it needs.

6 And so this has become a major

7 problem. So can you just talk about your

8 commitment to rectifying this, both in this

9 budget and over the next year so we don't

10 have to be back here next year talking about

11 the same thing?

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So -- and I

13 appreciate those remarks. I certainly am

14 aware of those challenges you cite, having

15 experienced them as well.

16 You know, the funding issue, as I

17 described earlier, there's just a structural

18 difference in the balancing of how funds are

19 utilized. Upstate does not have the built-in

20 mechanism for the tax structure to support

21 upstate transit.

22 I committed to this group last year,

23 and I'll do so again this year, that if you

24 want to hold meetings so we have time to plan

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1 and work together, I will be at the table to

2 do that with you. I myself cannot solve that

3 challenge. That is also a discussion that is

4 between the Executive and the legislative.

5 But the Department of Transportation

6 will be at the table to explore all ideas and

7 options on how we can not only sustain but

8 enhance certainly operating funds in upstate

9 New York.

10 SENATOR KENNEDY: The Governor's

11 proposed budget greatly expands the

12 design-build. We've talked about it numerous

13 times; I won't belabor the point. In the

14 past, there has been -- and there's been a

15 lot of attention brought to this, which is I

16 think why we are hearing about it so much

17 from my colleagues here today.

18 In the past, the design-build -- that

19 is now proposed to expand -- has utilized

20 project labor agreements. Is that something

21 that you would revisit?

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Typically the

23 practice has been that on design-build, yes,

24 we utilize a PLA.

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1 SENATOR KENNEDY: You do, okay.

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah. We

3 have. But we have to quantify that, and

4 that's an important distinction. So we do

5 have, you know, a study done to evaluate

6 whether or not there are savings.

7 SENATOR KENNEDY: And finally, just

8 back to the CHIPS program funding, the

9 funding that's proposed at a flat level for

10 CHIPS. You know, as a former mayor in

11 upstate, how important this is to our aging

12 infrastructure. So how can we address the

13 road improvements across the state, and what

14 can we do with the CHIPS formula to make sure

15 that it's reflective of these needs in the

16 aging infrastructure, especially in the

17 cities that feel the brunt of these harsh

18 winters off Lake Ontario, off Lake Erie, like

19 Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse?

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. Right.

21 Well, look, again, I mean, that is a function

22 of the negotiation between the Senate, the

23 Assembly, and the Executive.

24 You know, I do want to go back to the

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1 PAVE-NY program. While it doesn't fix

2 certainly everything, it does give local

3 communities additional funding, that they

4 determine where those funds go to address

5 their local road issues. And it does follow

6 the CHIPS formula.

7 But it is a larger conversation, and

8 it's one that's done certainly during the

9 negotiation.

10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Time. Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblyman Oaks.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, Commissioner,

14 hi.

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Hi.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Senator Kennedy was

17 just talking about transit dollars. And I

18 know you haven't been able to give us a lot

19 of specifics on the ride-sharing proposal,

20 but in there there is a surcharge that would

21 go 5.5 percent. And a portion of that,

22 27-plus percent, would go to local transit

23 authorities.

24 Do we have any sense on dollars that

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1 that might generate at this point?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't. I do

3 not.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And the only other

5 question was, do we know if those dollars --

6 I know DOT is going to have a role in that.

7 Are they going to go straight to the transit,

8 you know, authority or you?

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I think

10 that's certainly -- that's part of the

11 negotiation, I would imagine. I don't know

12 that answer either, how the structure would

13 be built out.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: We'll hope that

15 those -- that might be a way to provide some

16 resources.

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Also you've had a

19 number of questions on the signage. Just a

20 couple of things.

21 You mentioned the number of signs you

22 put up. Do we know the -- and I can't

23 remember it, but you said it as part of your

24 testimony. Do we know the total cost of that

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1 as well?

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right, I do.

3 So we -- DOT installed 374 signs. So the

4 materials, the signs, the materials

5 fabrication was $3.1 million. The

6 installation was $2.3 million. So a total of

7 $5.4 million.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And I was going to

9 Buffalo -- not to see Senator Kennedy -- but

10 as I was traveling there the other day, I

11 noticed that these signs -- some of those

12 signs toward Buffalo -- I haven't seen it

13 other places -- were bent. Whether it was

14 from, you know, heavy winds or whatever.

15 Have there been -- those were on the Thruway,

16 so it's their problem, I guess.

17 Have you seen problems with the

18 materials that you had for those? I just saw

19 the posts, not the signs themselves, were

20 bent. And maybe Buffalo just has tougher

21 winds than other places, I don't know.

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, I don't

23 know. I had heard, but I don't know the

24 answer to that. We've had no wind damage or

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1 damage to the signs that DOT has installed.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And then just

3 finally, the PAVE-NY program. I know you've

4 talked about it and the formula of that

5 following CHIPS. But it's not the exact

6 formula of CHIPS, I think. And as we look at

7 that, I'm just saying -- you mentioned part

8 of the negotiations. But I guess I would say

9 it follows it percentagewise, but it doesn't

10 drive the total pot quite that way. And so

11 just if we might look at that to maybe more

12 closely follow CHIPS.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We had looked

14 at that in terms of the ratio on the formula.

15 But we'll go back and take a look at that.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you very

17 much.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

19 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

20 Hyndman.

21 Senator?

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

23 Mr. Chairman. And our next speaker is

24 Senator Savino.

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1 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

2 Young.

3 Good morning -- is it still morning?

4 Yes. Good morning, Commissioner.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

6 SENATOR SAVINO: I just want to -- I

7 actually have one question, but I also just

8 want to reiterate some of the concerns that

9 some of my other colleagues have about

10 design-build.

11 It just bears repeating that extending

12 it to all the agencies and SUNY and CUNY

13 permanently, I have some concerns about --

14 we've discussed this in the past,

15 particularly because of the fact that there

16 is no language that extends PLAs in these

17 projects, there's no protection for public

18 employees in the current Article VII

19 language. So that's an issue of great

20 concern to myself and I know others.

21 And particularly in the past,

22 design-build has always been subject to the

23 purview of the Legislature. So it's the

24 extension of it permanently that I think kind

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1 of rankles some of us up here.

2 But I do understand the value of

3 design-build, and I think we all do. So I

4 think it just bears some more discussion

5 going forward.

6 But I want to talk about something

7 that the Governor has in his budget that is

8 a -- it's a pilot about these work zone

9 safety cameras. You may be aware that for

10 the past several years the Senate has passed

11 a bill that I carried, the Work Zone Safety

12 Act, which would increase the penalties for

13 and create the crimes of vehicular homicide,

14 intentionally intruding into a work zone.

15 Several years ago, when the

16 Legislature enacted increased penalties for

17 intrusion into a work zone with increased

18 fines, we hoped to see some changes in

19 behavior on the roadways, and unfortunately

20 that has not changed. So we're trying to

21 create an actual crime of intentional

22 intrusion into the work zone. The Senate has

23 passed the bill several times; the Assembly

24 has not quite gotten there yet.

125

1 But what I would hope is that if we go

2 forward with this pilot project, the data

3 that you capture, that you could share with

4 us, so we could convince people that what's

5 happening in our work zones is in fact

6 dangerous behavior by drivers who are not

7 affected at all by the increased penalties.

8 You know, we've not seen any change in their

9 behavior -- the intrusion into work zones,

10 endangering workers every day, the number of

11 incidents, the number of workers who are hit

12 and killed. Recently, on the Verrazano

13 Bridge, we had two workers who were knocked

14 off on the other side of the bridge. Thank

15 God, they survived.

16 But this is happening across many of

17 these projects. And as you know, with all of

18 the work and infrastructure work that we're

19 doing here in New York State, our workers are

20 in tremendous risk every day.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. And I

22 want to thank the legislature for your strong

23 focus on this. Certainly from the DOT's

24 perspective, but for emergency personnel

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1 workers -- I'm sure Bill Finch will say the

2 same for the Thruways -- for everybody who's

3 working out there, it's important. Because

4 people, let's face it, aren't paying

5 attention to, you know, driving through work

6 zones.

7 Work zone safety is very important to

8 us. We discussed this a little earlier.

9 Enforcement I believe is a big part of this.

10 We need to have strong enforcement and hit

11 people where it counts, in their wallet or

12 their pocketbook, so that from an education

13 perspective people are going to recognize

14 they need to slow down when they go these

15 work zone areas.

16 And so --and I'm actually -- Bill

17 Finch and I have been talking a little bit

18 about how we might able to enhance that from

19 our ends as well, in addition to the good

20 work that the Legislature has done and

21 provided us.

22 The data will be used, I hope, in a

23 more efficient way so that we're able to

24 pinpoint where those higher-density areas

127

1 are, where the higher speed volumes are.

2 That way we can be more site-specific, right,

3 with where we ask our State Police and other

4 law enforcement agencies to be so that they

5 can do the proper enforcement.

6 But it's a great program -- frankly,

7 there's probably not much more important than

8 that to protect the health and safety of our

9 folks that are working on everybody's behalf

10 on the roadways.

11 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you for the

12 efforts. And I hope that whatever data is

13 collected can be shared back with us so we

14 can continue to make the case that --

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure.

16 SENATOR SAVINO: -- just increasing

17 the fine or issuing tickets is not enough.

18 We really need to make this a crime. We need

19 to change people's behavior in the work

20 zones.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

22 SENATOR SAVINO: So I want to thank

23 you for your support on our efforts, and I

24 look forward to working with you on this.

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1 Thank you.

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you,

3 Senator.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 Assemblywoman Simon.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.

8 Thank you, Commissioner.

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Good morning.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: I have a couple

11 of questions with regard to the BQE triple

12 cantilever, which as you may know is an

13 extraordinarily critical link in the

14 interstate highway system through Brooklyn --

15 an extension of the BQE, the Gowanus

16 Expressway, and leads up to this wonderful

17 Kosciuszko Bridge that we're very pleased

18 with the way it's coming along.

19 But as you testified earlier, it's

20 part of the unbuilt system. I would like to

21 better understand where the -- how that is --

22 elements of the roadway are characterized as

23 built and unbuilt and why that, in your view,

24 precludes the state contributing to what is a

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1 massive project that needs desperate help.

2 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So the unbuilt

3 portions are the portions that the city owns.

4 And when the city builds up to state

5 standards, State DOT standards, that section

6 of roadway and it becomes built, we then take

7 ownership of it. Which means we then

8 maintain it going forward, forever. But the

9 process is for unbuilt sections, that's the

10 local responsibility.

11 Yes, it's a big project, no question

12 about it. We have many big projects across

13 the state. You know, we support the city in

14 a variety of ways. The K Bridge has been

15 mentioned a couple of times today. That's

16 just one example, you know, of the work that

17 we do throughout the city that supports the

18 city.

19 So you know, frankly, the resources

20 are not there for that triple cantilever

21 project that I've spoken to the commissioner

22 about, which is why I do say that I think

23 design-build -- and she has said to me --

24 would go a long way in helping address that.

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1 For the city.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Yes, and I

3 support the design-build for the BQE. I know

4 that there's --

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: But I think my

6 point is is that goes a long way into

7 addressing the financial portion of that for

8 the city as well. They believe that that

9 will help them significantly.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: So I guess is

11 one concern I have is when that was built,

12 why wasn't it built to state standards at

13 that time? I mean, I don't understand how

14 that didn't end up in the state system when

15 it was done in the first place. Because I

16 don't think it was done in the first place

17 not to state standards. I mean, the --

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, I --

19 honestly, I can't answer that. It was built

20 probably 75 years ago.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: The Gowanus, I

22 understand how that happened. But I don't

23 understand how this happened.

24 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We've taken

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1 over many sections of various roadways

2 through the city. Once they've come to state

3 standards, we take them, we own them. And

4 then remember, we own them going forward

5 forever on the maintenance end. So it really

6 does relieve the city of that burden.

7 I can't speak to why it was never, you

8 know, built that way initially.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: And what about

10 the application of the BRIDGE NY program? I

11 understand that it's there to help support

12 the bridges and roadways. Is there some

13 reason why that money, any money from there

14 can't be used towards something like the BQE

15 cantilever?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, again,

17 it's a balance of needs. And it's bridges

18 and culverts only, not roadways. So it's

19 bridges and culverts.

20 It's a needs issue. You know, we

21 have -- there are needs all across the State

22 of New York, from Buffalo to Lake Placid to

23 Long Island. And so $200 million, while it's

24 a lot of money to you and I, there's a lot of

132

1 need out there. And so we need to use those

2 funds to address local issues as well in

3 other parts of the state.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Well, I want to

5 express very clearly just how concerned I am

6 about the triple cantilever. It is -- it

7 does ring the third-largest commercial

8 business district -- the third-largest

9 business district in New York City, which is

10 probably the fourth-largest business district

11 in the state. And it is in perilous

12 condition. And it's not clear how it was

13 even built, to some extent.

14 And if something goes awry, this will

15 have a devastating economic effect, really

16 for the region. So I want to encourage the

17 state to find a way to help with that.

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Okay.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Our

22 next speaker is Senator Tedisco.

23 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,

24 Commissioner. And thank you for being here

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1 and giving us your testimony, and your

2 service, coming from mayor here to the

3 commissioner of DOT. And as a local elected

4 official at one time, you know what a lot of

5 our elected officials are going through as it

6 relates to our infrastructure.

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

8 SENATOR TEDISCO: And I know you

9 alluded to a short conversation we had before

10 your testimony, and we talked a little bit

11 about a holistic aspect of our

12 infrastructure. And we all know how

13 important our roads and our bridges are --

14 it's about public safety, getting our kids to

15 school, getting to the doctor's, getting to

16 our jobs. And most importantly, it's about

17 economic development. Who's going to want to

18 expand or put a business in New York State if

19 we're not maintaining our infrastructure?

20 But it also goes beyond the roads and

21 bridges. We need to put money into those

22 roads and bridges and maintain them. We need

23 a continuum.

24 But as we talked, we talked about a

134

1 lurking monster which is another part of our

2 infrastructure. And you remember the show

3 The Honeymooners, with Jackie Gleason?

4 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I do. Sure.

5 SENATOR TEDISCO: Remember a guy named

6 Ed Norton?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah.

8 SENATOR TEDISCO: He's too young to

9 know that, Kaminsky; I've got socks that are

10 older than him. He thought Ed Norton was

11 that young guy that is a good actor now.

12 (Laughter.)

13 SENATOR TEDISCO: But you can't cut a

14 ribbon on a road or -- or you can cut a

15 ribbon on roads and bridges, but only Ed

16 Norton could cut a ribbon on a sewer line,

17 because he worked in the sewers back in The

18 Honeymooners.

19 And the reason why I mention that is

20 myself and the good Assemblyman Phil Steck

21 down there, and several of our colleagues in

22 the Senate and the Assembly, understand that

23 fully here in the Capital Region. We've seen

24 what's happened in Rensselaer. An SUV went

135

1 into a sinkhole in Albany. In Montgomery

2 County, they still have sewer going into the

3 Mohawk because of our sublevel.

4 And you and I talked about it, our

5 sewer lines, our water lines, our sanitary

6 lines, our gas lines. That is the lurking

7 monster. And you mentioned -- and I know

8 about this, because when I was a city

9 councilman, I put together a program to

10 actually purchase TV cameras, put them

11 through the entire sewer system of the City

12 of Schenectady, and start a maintenance

13 system on the most dilapidated sublevel

14 sewer, water and gas lines, so we wouldn't

15 have the breaks that bring down those roads

16 and bridges, which cost two to three to four

17 to five times as much as if you put a system

18 in -- and they have a technology now to

19 actually seal those systems in many ways.

20 Many of those are a hundred years old.

21 They date back to the Civil War. And believe

22 it or not, like you said, in Syracuse there

23 was some wooden sewer lines. We had wooden

24 lines and we'd still today have wooden sewer

136

1 lines in the City of Schenectady, part of the

2 49th Senatorial District. And I think you

3 can go to any county and take a look at

4 those.

5 My colleagues in this region,

6 supervisors, highway superintendents -- in

7 fact, the Association of Towns has put on

8 their number-one level a program that

9 Assemblyman Steck and I are the sponsors of,

10 and have several others, called SWIAP, Safe

11 Water Infrastructure Action Program. What it

12 deals with is a sister program to CHIPS.

13 What's happening now, anecdotally from

14 some of my highway superintendents, they love

15 that CHIPS money. We've got to continue to

16 support it. It was $445 million, I think,

17 last year, and I think it's in the budget

18 this year. They're putting down beautiful

19 roads. You know what's happening? They're

20 collapsing with their weight with the

21 sublevel that's so deteriorated. So we're

22 putting good money after bad.

23 We need a sister program, and we think

24 we have an idea to put that forth, called

137

1 Safe Water Infrastructure Action Plan. It's

2 not a Hunger Games. It wouldn't be

3 competition. It would be based on a formula

4 just like CHIPS.

5 I was wondering if you would support a

6 concept like that if we could maybe negotiate

7 that into the New York State budget, so

8 supervisors, mayors, villages, towns know --

9 not going to solve all the problems, but they

10 can start looking at the sublevel, that

11 lurking monster, before they put beautiful

12 roads down, and they collapse, and it's twice

13 as much money, throwing good money after bad.

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right. I

15 think it's a good idea. I mean, you're --

16 but the budget before you, you know, has a

17 $2 billion proposal for the clean

18 water/drinking water program.

19 But I agree, you and I talked offline

20 a little before this, and I mentioned

21 previously what I had done. And I will say

22 to all of you, you know, New York is blessed

23 in the sense that we have a group of

24 individuals and organizations, the

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1 Environmental Facilities Corporation, who are

2 very sophisticated in assisting communities

3 both in terms of grants and loans,

4 low-interest loans, now as low as zero

5 percent, to address their infrastructure

6 needs -- clean water, drinking water.

7 But I think your point is well-taken.

8 And I've always encouraged, since my arrival

9 here at New York State, when I speak to local

10 officials, when they look at or are going to

11 undertake a local road reconstruction

12 program, or they're going to fix some sewer

13 runs or replace a water line, to look at it

14 more holistically -- so that they fully

15 understand, below grade, the challenges, but

16 that they also leverage additional programs

17 like what the EFC offers with other programs

18 in New York State where they might be able to

19 reinvent their local community -- Main Street

20 programs, where you're not just going to

21 replace a sewer line and then put the road

22 back over it; maybe you look at how you green

23 it up, you add green infrastructure, you add

24 elements that enhance the beauty of the

139

1 community. And that is proven to attract and

2 further economic development.

3 So I think you're right, I think that

4 certainly as we look at these types of

5 challenges more holistically, and in a

6 smarter way, I think all communities will be

7 served.

8 But one thing is for sure, that

9 New York State is a very old state. The

10 Northeast is a very old place. And so

11 therefore our infrastructure is definitely

12 very old. But I do know, from my past

13 experience and what I'm doing now, that, you

14 know, we are -- and the Governor is putting

15 his best foot forward trying to tackle this

16 very large issue.

17 So I think that sounds like a very

18 good idea to me, and it's something that I

19 would encourage you to work forward on.

20 SENATOR TEDISCO: I know my time is

21 up, but just to close I'd say we appreciate

22 those grants, and they appreciate those

23 loans, but they're strapped for money. And

24 the longer we delay with that sublevel, the

140

1 more problems we're going to have on all

2 levels. Because those roads and bridges will

3 collapse with their weight under that

4 deteriorated sublevel infrastructure.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Just to add to

6 that, I think one benefit has been that in

7 large part much of the median household

8 income has been lowered, that threshold, so

9 more communities are qualifying for zero

10 percent loans, as an example. So while you

11 may take a loan, you certainly still have to

12 pay it back, but it's zero percent. There's

13 grant dollars that go with that. They've

14 done a terrific job continuing the momentum

15 of that program, and it continues to grow.

16 They're a great resource.

17 And I just remind all of the members

18 here today that that's another tool in the

19 belt when you work with your local

20 constituencies.

21 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you, and thank

22 you for the great job you do.

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you,

24 sir.

141

1 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 Senator Liz Krueger.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,

6 Commissioner. So many questions have already

7 been asked.

8 In the Governor's briefing on your

9 agency, it included a statement that there's

10 $1.2 billion in additional support for JFK

11 access and Woodbury Commons, et cetera, but

12 then there only appears to be about

13 $749 million in additional DOT

14 appropriations. So where's the other money

15 coming from to get us to $1.2 billion?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: That will be

17 developed as we work forward next year.

18 There's $564 million towards the Kew

19 Interchange, part of the JFK access. And the

20 other pot is the $600 million in encumbrance

21 relief for federal funds that we'll use to

22 accelerate like the Woodbury Commons project.

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: But then is there

24 $1.2 billion for Kennedy?

142

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: There is

2 $564 million for Kennedy this year.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: And then the other

4 $600 million --

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: For the Kew

6 Gardens Interchange.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- federal

8 acceleration for Woodbury.

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Is that how it

11 breaks out?

12 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Among others,

13 yes.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay, among others.

15 There were a few other projects listed, okay.

16 How much of your budget currently

17 comes from revenue from gasoline taxes?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: You know, I

19 don't know that answer, to be honest with

20 you.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Do you have a

22 percentage, approximately?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I don't know

24 that answer. I can get it.

143

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: The reason I ask is

2 because a few years ago a gallon of oil was

3 $120, and now it's $50. So by definition,

4 since the price of gas continues to go

5 down -- even though we all want to get us off

6 a gas-driven economy -- your revenues have to

7 be going down.

8 So I'm curious, how is that impacting

9 revenue for your projects, and what's your

10 projections going forward?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, it would

12 not -- it would -- if it's volume-based, it

13 wouldn't go down.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: I thought our gas

15 taxes were driven in a formula related to

16 price.

17 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, but that

18 doesn't mean people aren't still buying the

19 same amount.

20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Is it cents per

21 gallon, not percentage of the total value?

22 Is that how it works, all of them?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah --

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes?

144

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay.

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: And I don't

4 know the number. I can get it. But I don't

5 know it off the top of my head.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: The energy and

7 environmental side of state government is

8 actually pushing a big effort towards

9 electric cars, vehicles. And we had lots of

10 back and forth on that during the EnCon

11 hearing Monday. How does that impact DOT,

12 and how are you planning for being able to

13 participate in ensuring we have a state that

14 is up to meeting the needs to move from

15 gas-driven vehicles to electric vehicles?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So we are

17 looking -- from a DOT perspective, we're

18 looking at how we can add charging stations,

19 including here on our main campus at Wolf

20 Road, and the purchase of electric vehicles

21 that we would use fleetwide.

22 There's some challenges with that, you

23 know. As an example, electric cars work

24 better in warm weather, so when we're in the

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1 middle of winter, like now, they don't work

2 as well. But that's really a development of

3 the research and technology. They don't work

4 as well on steep grades, they work better in

5 flat areas, of course. But DOT is committed

6 to that.

7 We also just initiated some solar

8 installations in our Region 5 Buffalo area so

9 that we can reduce the cost of our footprint

10 there -- not only our footprint, but the cost

11 to us to run our facilities. And we're also

12 developing a broader statewide program for

13 that as well.

14 So we're very committed to

15 environmental issues in the State of

16 New York.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I know that,

18 through discussions, that we have a little

19 problem with the federal government trying to

20 put electric car filling stations -- I'm

21 using the wrong terminology, but the plugs

22 for the electric cars -- into the Thruway

23 sites because of federal law. There's some

24 rules around whether we can actually put

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1 electric car chargers -- chargers was the

2 word that was escaping my brain -- in the

3 Thruway stops.

4 But are we planning to put electric

5 car chargers in the state roads or the state

6 pull-overs and rest stops?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes, we are

8 working on a plan to do that. But we also

9 want to make smart decisions on where we

10 locate those. Right? So we want to use data

11 to the extent that we can to determine what

12 the best locations will be in doing so.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: What kind of data

14 will you use, the basis of how many cars are

15 being sold in certain areas?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, you

17 know, maybe working with the Automobile

18 Association to understand, you know, where

19 registrations are, as an example, for

20 electric cars, trying to get a better handle

21 on where those sites are.

22 But I think in the long term, to your

23 point, it's incumbent upon the state to make

24 sure that we have a system that's built to

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1 address that growing community. And that's

2 exactly what is happening. I don't want to

3 speak for the Thruway; I know that they have

4 a number of installations planned.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Right. And I know

6 that the Thruway is a separate issue and you

7 walk into some federal problems.

8 Changing topics, so as part of the

9 Governor's budget proposal, he announced his

10 plan to have light shows on various state

11 bridges and highways. I forget the name he

12 used to announce the light shows, and I think

13 there's even a reference to music to go along

14 with the light shows.

15 So at risk of being a real downer, in

16 New York City we actually have a lot of

17 concern about light and noise pollution at

18 night, and there's even a law that was passed

19 here at the state level, and other laws at

20 the city level, to prevent light and noise

21 pollution.

22 And I'm curious how the proposal

23 stacks up against many people's concerns

24 about not actually wanting to have a light

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1 show coming in through their bedroom window

2 every night.

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Right.

4 Understood. No, I understand that. And I

5 think as it continues to move forward, people

6 will have a better understanding on how it

7 would work.

8 As an example, LED technology would be

9 utilized, and it would be directional. In

10 other words, it wouldn't be shining into

11 somebody's bedroom window. In theory, you

12 would direct that LED so it could be skyward.

13 There's ways that you can lamppost, if you

14 will, lights.

15 But this is done all over the world.

16 And, you know, the idea behind it is to

17 showcase the spectacular New York bridges and

18 so forth. New York gets 50-plus million

19 visitors a year. The tourism industry is

20 huge in New York. But balancing it,

21 obviously, between people who live there and

22 people who visit there, but also to be able

23 to utilize it in, you know, days of

24 significance -- the Fourth of July, as an

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1 example, how you celebrate our national

2 holiday. The Empire State Building does it

3 now. I'm not certain that there's a lot of

4 complaints generated from that.

5 But it would be coordinated, so there

6 would be kind of a central command, if you

7 will, that would coordinate how these lights

8 may work. And I have to tell you, I don't

9 know all those details. But I do know that

10 you can utilize lighting, in particular LED,

11 in different ways to minimize those impacts.

12 And I'm certain that all of that will be

13 considered.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: And that will all be

15 under your authority at DOT?

16 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No, it's

17 largely the MTA.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Largely it will be

19 in the MTA.

20 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Now, on the --

21 I'll call it the K Bridge, because sometimes

22 I mangle it. The K Bridge, we are looking at

23 adding -- we have always had lighting as part

24 of that, that's what the community wanted.

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1 So when we were doing the work on the

2 development of the K Bridge, one of the

3 things the community wanted was also how they

4 celebrate that new bridge. So the K Bridge

5 would also be lit in a similar fashion.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

10 We have Mr. Steck, for one question,

11 to close on our side.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN STECK: So I am one of the

13 people who does have a substantially electric

14 vehicle. And I just wanted to note, I spent

15 some time in Syracuse on business recently,

16 and they have a lot of parking places where

17 you can charge. The problem is, it's

18 completely ineffectual, because in order to

19 charge an electric vehicle, you need to sit

20 there, at 240 volts, for about four hours.

21 If you're limited to two hours of parking,

22 that doesn't help you very much.

23 So I certainly, you know, would -- I

24 think in your testimony you did identify the

151

1 fact that it's probably not going to be

2 something you can do at classic gasoline

3 filling stations, or even on the Thruway. No

4 one's going to want to sit there.

5 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Agreed.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN STECK: So I just wanted

7 to point that out. I can see that you're

8 aware of that. And sometimes the best of

9 intentions --

10 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Well, right.

11 And I -- just to say, because I was there,

12 some of those installations took place back

13 in 2002 and 2003. And that was the

14 technology at that point.

15 In this field, you know, that

16 technology changes almost daily. And so, you

17 know, the advancement of research and

18 development in that area -- battery systems,

19 which is a big growing industry, and is

20 significant in the Binghamton area, those are

21 the types of research and development that

22 you need to utilize, and then the data on

23 where best to put the most modern, if you

24 will, stations.

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1 I agree with you, who could sit there

2 for four hours, unless it's an overnight?

3 ASSEMBLYMAN STECK: Yes. And we

4 certainly appreciate everything you've been

5 able to accomplish in the 110th Assembly

6 District. And thank you very much,

7 Commissioner.

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 Senator Comrie.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: To close?

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: To close.

13 SENATOR COMRIE: To close? All right.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: You're the closer.

15 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you,

16 Commissioner, for your service.

17 Can you -- I want to just echo my

18 colleagues' comments on design-build, and

19 hopefully that is negotiated without a

20 problem in the budget so that the city can

21 have it also.

22 I represent Queens, so I just wanted

23 to ask you about the Kew Gardens Interchange.

24 You said there's another $564 million to be

153

1 invested in the Kew Gardens Interchange. Can

2 you tell me if that will finally resolve the

3 problem of the water that is continuing to

4 still pond when you go northbound on the Van

5 Wyck towards the Grand Central?

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We think it's

7 going to make a significant impact. As I

8 mentioned, there will be an additional lane

9 in either direction, managed lane, which will

10 help. It's proven to work elsewhere.

11 But in combination, you know, with

12 way-finding signs and the work that's being

13 done at the airport as well -- there's a

14 traffic plan which we're not involved in, you

15 know, for the airport proper -- all of those

16 things should help the flows.

17 SENATOR COMRIE: Well, I meant there's

18 still a water flow problem from the high

19 water table in that area, and there's still

20 water that actually stays on the roadway.

21 And can you tell me --

22 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, well

23 that -- and I -- I apologize.

24 SENATOR COMRIE: -- if that water is

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1 being discharged? Have they figured it out

2 yet?

3 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Sure.

4 Drainage is all part of the program as well,

5 and I neglected to mention that. Drainage is

6 part of the project with the road

7 reconstruction, adding the lanes.

8 There's another benefit that I didn't

9 mention that I want to. You know, we believe

10 that, as you know now, some of the

11 neighborhoods that are close to the highway,

12 if you will, are severely impacted with

13 traffic that goes right by their front door.

14 SENATOR COMRIE: Right.

15 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: So in terms

16 of, you know, air quality, emissions, kind of

17 a healthier environment for people, we

18 believe this is really going to help get

19 people back on that roadway where they should

20 be out of the -- away from people's front

21 doors and back on the highway.

22 But drainage is a big part of that

23 too, and of course that will help with some

24 of the ponding issues that I know are

155

1 experienced with some of the neighbors also.

2 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. Well, there's

3 ponding issues on the streets. And I

4 appreciate the beautification that's being

5 done, especially along the Queens Boulevard

6 area, with creating a more open setting, and

7 hopefully they'll be putting a lot of trees

8 up there also.

9 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Mm-hmm.

10 SENATOR COMRIE: But there's still

11 ponding on the actual Van Wyck roadway

12 itself. I know it's been a difficult

13 problem, it's been there for decades. I hope

14 that that discharge, that they can figure it

15 out, because it seems to be a real difficult

16 problem with the water that's there from

17 Flushing Meadow Park, and trying to figure

18 out how that ponding -- how that problem will

19 be significantly eradicated. I would hope

20 that the money is -- that we're not spending

21 all that money and we still have that ponding

22 at the end of the day.

23 So the Kew Gardens Interchange, and

24 also the access to the airport. Did you

156

1 mention, or did I miss it in your statement

2 that there was a feasibility study to see if

3 there will be another opportunity to develop

4 a one ride to the airport from Midtown

5 Manhattan?

6 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: I believe

7 that's with the Port Authority. The Port

8 Authority. That would not be DOT.

9 SENATOR COMRIE: Will DOT have a role

10 in that at all?

11 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: No.

12 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. And then also

13 I wanted to ask you about the pavement, the

14 quality of the pavement. Because it seems

15 like every year that the roadway has to get

16 repaired, the Long Island Expressway and the

17 Van Wyck. I know it's two of the heaviest

18 roadways in the country as far as usage is

19 concerned, but it seems like every six months

20 it just falls apart right after the winter

21 season, or sometimes even during the season.

22 Has there been any materials that have

23 been developed that could make a better

24 pavement surface?

157

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yeah, we have

2 a laboratory -- we're mandated to have a

3 laboratory by the federal government, and

4 they're constantly looking for ways, short of

5 concrete, how we can have a better mix that

6 will hold up better, if you will.

7 The challenges simply are, you know,

8 you come from hot weather, you go to cold

9 weather, the freezing, thawing -- and then

10 the reality is there's just an enormous

11 amount of traffic that's almost 24/7 on those

12 roadways.

13 SENATOR COMRIE: Right. Right.

14 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: And it's a

15 constant battle, there's no doubt about it.

16 But yeah, the labs are always looking

17 at how we can improve, you know, kind of the

18 strength, if you will, of our asphalt mixes.

19 And other materials.

20 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. But nothing's

21 been developed yet that you could say it's

22 going to be tested or brought into that area?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Not to my

24 knowledge.

158

1 One of the things that we're looking

2 at that I wouldn't recommend there, though,

3 would be kind of porous pavements. Those are

4 utilized better in different areas where we

5 can utilize the roadway to remove water away

6 from identified water bodies, so we're doing

7 that type of work. I wouldn't recommend it

8 there just by simply the volumes.

9 But no, is the honest answer. At this

10 point those are the materials that we're

11 using. But we're constantly looking to build

12 a better mousetrap.

13 SENATOR COMRIE: And you mentioned

14 earlier also that Diesel Emissions Reduction

15 Act. Are we fully ready to implement that

16 full plan, or will there need to be another

17 delay?

18 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: See-mac?

19 SENATOR COMRIE: No, the Diesel

20 Emissions Reduction act.

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Oh. Not at

22 this time, but we are making great progress

23 in changing over our fleet. But I wouldn't

24 commit here today that, you know, we were

159

1 ready completely to be done with that.

2 SENATOR COMRIE: What about the

3 requirements that contractors and other

4 people that are working on state projects

5 also had their fleet upgraded? Where are we

6 with that process?

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: We continue to

8 work with the GCA, a number of different

9 construction industry professionals across

10 the board, for that as well.

11 SENATOR COMRIE: All right. Thank

12 you, Commissioner.

13 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: And I will

14 also follow up on the water issue for you,

15 and we'll get back to you.

16 SENATOR COMRIE: Yes, I'll follow up

17 on that, because that is part of my district

18 and I do get a lot of concerns. I've had two

19 residents in the last month that actually

20 spun out in that intersection, so --

21 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Okay. I'm

22 happy to do that.

23 SENATOR COMRIE: All right. Thank

24 you. Thank you, Chairwoman.

160

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you, Senator.

2 Senator Kennedy wants to ask one quick

3 question.

4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, Commissioner,

5 just going back to the reconstruction of the

6 198 that you had brought up during your

7 testimony here today.

8 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yup.

9 SENATOR KENNEDY: First of all, thank

10 you for your intervention and your office's

11 work on this.

12 The Scajaquada Creek has been one of

13 the most polluted waterways in the state.

14 The state is addressing this issue. There's

15 another issue regarding, with the

16 reconstruction of the 198, pedestrian access

17 to Scajaquada Creek that's being addressed.

18 Is the environmental impact of the

19 reconstruction also being addressed as the

20 new redevelopment of the 198 moves forward,

21 the environmental impact on Scajaquada Creek

22 as this remediation is taking place?

23 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Yes, it is.

24 And, you know, I think that also is -- you

161

1 know, there's the impacts to the park as

2 well. As you know, there's great debate in

3 Buffalo over the Scajaquada and, you know,

4 what's going to happen. You know, that

5 debate's gone on for 15 years -- for too

6 long, from my perspective. Which is why, you

7 know, when I came here I stepped in to say

8 we're going to get this done.

9 But we do analyze and evaluate all the

10 environmental impacts as well. So obviously

11 when you slow traffic down, you have air

12 quality -- or you could potentially have air

13 quality impacts also. But all of those are

14 analyzed, they are part of our process that

15 we go through. And so that's been a very

16 challenging project, as you know.

17 But yes, the environmental concerns

18 are all part of it as well.

19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,

20 Commissioner. Air quality, water quality

21 with the Scajaquada Creek, we would certainly

22 appreciate your continued efforts in that

23 regard to maintain and protect that. Thank

24 you.

162

1 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you,

2 Senator.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you. Thank

4 you, Commissioner.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for all

6 that you do for the citizens of New York.

7 COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL: Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Have a good rest of

9 the day.

10 Assemblyman Buchwald, Assemblyman

11 Perry, and Assemblyman Otis have joined us.

12 Next we go to the 10:30 person,

13 Theresa Egan, executive deputy commissioner,

14 New York State Department of Motor Vehicles.

15 Good afternoon.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Welcome.

17 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Good

18 afternoon.

19 Thank you, Chairperson Young,

20 Chairperson Farrell, Chairperson Robach, and

21 other members of the Legislature for inviting

22 me here today. I'm Terri Egan, the executive

23 deputy commissioner for the Department of

24 Motor Vehicles.

163

1 Governor Cuomo's Executive Budget plan

2 allows DMV to continue to build upon the

3 innovations and efficiencies achieved over

4 the past few years. The budget provides

5 $342 million for DMV to support its main

6 office in Albany, 27 state-operated offices,

7 and 102 county-operated offices, and will

8 enable us to continue our efforts to improve

9 overall customer service, promote traffic

10 safety, and protect consumers. DMV will use

11 a $16 million increase over our prior year's

12 funding and 107 new FTEs to accommodate

13 additional in-office customers as a result of

14 increasing license renewal volumes, to ensure

15 that New York State is compliant with the

16 REAL ID Act, and to oversee the safe

17 expansion of ride-sharing services to upstate

18 New York.

19 Our average wait times in the state

20 offices remain under 30 minutes, and these

21 additional funds and FTEs will allow us to,

22 at minimum, maintain this critical level of

23 customer service.

24 No later than October 1, 2020,

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1 domestic air travelers will need a REAL

2 ID-compliant document or other acceptable

3 form of federal identification in order to

4 avoid secondary screening. It's estimated

5 that approximately 11 million New Yorkers

6 would seek a Real ID-compliant driver license

7 or non-driver ID, which can only be obtained

8 in an in-office visit. Due to the law's

9 increased identity verification and

10 documentation requirements, issuing a Real

11 ID-compliant document is a more

12 time-consuming transaction, requiring that

13 our employees be well-trained so that they

14 can adequately perform the necessary review.

15 The $5.00 additional fee that's proposed

16 would cover the additional DMV personnel and

17 IT resources needed to serve customers

18 seeking these documents beginning in the fall

19 of this year.

20 In the fall, we enter into a peak

21 license renewal volume period, and we want to

22 leverage this period so that New Yorkers are

23 prepared when the act is fully implemented in

24 2020. Any delay in implementation will

165

1 necessitate customers to make repeat visits

2 to our offices, resulting in inconvenience to

3 our customers and in increased costs to the

4 state.

5 With continued enhancements to our

6 website, DMV constantly seeks to improve the

7 services we offer to our customers. DMV's

8 new, modern, dynamic, and easy-to-use website

9 is optimized for use on mobile devices. Our

10 website now receives more than 35 million

11 visits per year and offers more than 50

12 online transactions and services. In 2016,

13 customers performed more than 7.3 million

14 internet transactions, totaling nearly

15 $500 million. Millions more accessed our

16 website to gather information or check the

17 status of their title or license, among other

18 free services.

19 In addition, last year more than

20 600,000 New Yorkers registered to vote

21 through the DMV website.

22 Along with the expanded use of the

23 website, we're fully embracing new

24 technologies such as electronic notifications

166

1 that allow us to reduce our environmental

2 footprint and decrease printing and mailing

3 costs. Currently more than 3.5 million

4 New Yorkers are enrolled in our electronic

5 registration renewal and inspection reminders

6 program, saving the state more than $500,000

7 annually.

8 In total, these improvements have

9 helped us to move closer to achieving our

10 long-term goal of 50 percent of transactions

11 being completed using an alternative service

12 channel, including the web, mail and kiosks.

13 Currently, more than 47 percent of our

14 transactions are completed through an

15 alternative service channel.

16 The 2017-'18 Executive Budget also

17 looks to provide ride-sharing outside of

18 New York City by establishing a uniform

19 statewide regulatory framework that will be

20 overseen by the Department of Motor Vehicles.

21 By expanding ride-sharing outside of New York

22 City, we will be able to provide economic

23 opportunity to more people as well as to

24 provide a cost-effective transportation

167

1 alternative. DMV will provide licensing and

2 oversight of ride-share companies, including

3 broad auditing powers to ensure uniformity in

4 access for all New Yorkers and compliance

5 with all laws, rules, and regulations.

6 DMV is not only focused on improving

7 service to our customers, we also continue to

8 expand partnerships with other agencies to

9 create efficiencies and increase compliance.

10 In 2016, DMV investigators conducted sweeps

11 that resulted in the seizure of

12 862 fraudulent licenses and the arrest of

13 over 800 individuals for underage drinking,

14 both single-year records.

15 Through the year-round Operation

16 Prevent initiative, DMV investigators work

17 with the State Liquor Authority, state and

18 local law enforcement agencies, to conduct

19 underage drinking and fake ID sweeps at bars,

20 restaurants, and concert venues across

21 New York.

22 Partnering with 14 state agencies

23 through the Governor's Traffic Safety

24 Committee, DMV will continue its outstanding

168

1 work that has made New York's roadways among

2 the safest in the nation. GTSC distributes

3 in excess of $30 million in federal funding

4 annually to support traffic safety

5 initiatives, including enforcement efforts by

6 state and local law enforcement agencies to

7 combat impaired driving and distracted

8 driving as well as other dangerous driving

9 behaviors.

10 In 2016, seat-belt usage remained at

11 an all-time high of 92 percent. And New York

12 State has become a national leader in an

13 innovative program aimed at detecting drugged

14 driving by training and certifying Drug

15 Recognition Experts across the state.

16 As a result of these efforts and many

17 others, fatality rates continue to drop.

18 Preliminary statistics show a decrease in

19 fatalities from 2015 to 2016 of approximately

20 7 percent, while the national trend this year

21 shows a significant increase.

22 To support our ongoing traffic safety

23 efforts, this year's budget includes

24 proposals to clarify the definition of a

169

1 drug, expand the scope of the written test

2 for purposes of bicycle and pedestrian

3 safety, require the revocation of a license

4 for driving while impaired by drugs, increase

5 license sanctions for refusing to submit to a

6 chemical test, prohibit the use of mobile

7 phones and portable electronic devices when a

8 vehicle is not in motion and by persons under

9 18, and also to require all passengers in a

10 motor vehicle to wear a seat belt.

11 All of these measures will result in

12 safer roads for traveling New Yorkers and

13 serve to prevent injury and loss of life.

14 Looking forward, DMV will continue its

15 commitment to improve traffic safety, protect

16 consumers, innovate and improve our

17 procedures, maintain a high level of customer

18 service, and provide convenient options for

19 our customers to complete transactions. We

20 remain strongly committed to our core mission

21 to serve the citizens of New York.

22 Once again, thank you for this

23 opportunity to speak with you today. I

24 welcome any questions you might have about

170

1 DMV and our plans for serving the people of

2 New York. Thank you.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

4 First to question, Chairman Perry.

5 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Thank you,

6 Mr. Chairman.

7 Good afternoon.

8 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: It is

9 afternoon.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Thank you for

11 taking the time to talk with us today and the

12 opportunity to ask a few questions. So I

13 want to ask about your driver's license

14 reciprocity program.

15 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: And currently,

17 driver's licenses from all states offer

18 reciprocal programs where you can exchange

19 your license for a New York license, right?

20 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is

21 correct.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: New York is a

23 major tourist destination. It's also a state

24 that has a very large immigration population

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1 that increases every day. You have a

2 continuous flow of immigrants from all over

3 the world, with a significant amount coming

4 from the Caribbean Basin area, which is in

5 the backyard of the United States.

6 I understand that New York -- my

7 constituents have complained that if they

8 have a driver's license and have driven for

9 years in their former homeland, they can't

10 exchange their driver's license for a

11 New York license.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is

13 correct. At this time we do not have a

14 reciprocity agreement with countries outside

15 of the state. There is provisions for them

16 to be able to drive temporarily within the

17 state, but then they would need to meet our

18 identification requirements here in the state

19 to obtain a New York State driving license.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Identification --

21 well, someone who had met the identification

22 requirement still cannot exchange their

23 license for a New York license. Is that so?

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Once they

172

1 meet their identification requirements, we

2 would issue them the New York State license

3 if they could meet the New York State

4 identification requirements.

5 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: I understand that

6 they have to go through the whole process and

7 do a driving test. Why is that necessary?

8 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Again, if

9 they are coming from a foreign country -- and

10 maybe I'm not understanding your question,

11 sir. If they're coming from a country not

12 one of our United States, they would need to

13 come in and they would need to be proved to

14 meet our identification requirements in order

15 to get a driver's permit, and then they would

16 need to take the five-hour course as well as

17 pass the actual written test.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Is that really

19 necessary, someone who has been a driver for

20 years, isn't that an unnecessary burden on a

21 new immigrant or someone who has -- who is

22 already established living here? You have to

23 go through a driving course, take a driver's

24 test? That seems to be an unnecessary burden

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1 on immigrants. And New York State should be

2 doing something about it, don't you think so?

3 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I

4 understand, and we can certainly consider it.

5 Again, we are in a position where we want to

6 be able to make sure that while somebody may

7 have been driving in different places, that

8 they are able to meet our standards here in

9 the state so that we can ensure the safety of

10 all the travelers here on the state's

11 highways.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Well, it must be

13 unnecessary because next door in New Jersey,

14 you can change your license if you came from

15 one of the Caribbean countries. I know if

16 you came from Jamaica, like I did, if I lived

17 in New Jersey, I could just change my license

18 for a driver's license in New Jersey. And

19 then if I have a New Jersey license and I

20 came to New York, I could change it for a

21 New York license.

22 So isn't this really an unnecessary

23 burden on immigrants that should be -- you

24 should visit that and fix it?

174

1 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, we

2 can certainly take a look at it. Again, we

3 really try to uniformly apply our

4 identification requirements across the board.

5 But we understand --

6 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: But this is not an

7 identification issue. Because I assume that

8 to get a driver's license in New Jersey, that

9 they have similar requirements, or acceptable

10 requirements. So I would think that you

11 would -- it's not really an issue of

12 identification. The question is not about

13 meeting the identification requirements, it's

14 the policy or the unnecessary burden of

15 requiring a person who has driven for years,

16 and has a valid driver's license, to go

17 through the whole process of a driving test

18 to get the license exchanged in New York.

19 When the neighboring state finds it a simple

20 matter to do, it seems unnecessary. I

21 suggest that we revisit that and look at it.

22 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

23 Understood, Assemblyman. We will talk with

24 New Jersey and consider. Thank you.

175

1 ASSEMBLYMAN PERRY: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

4 Chairman.

5 Senator Robach.

6 SENATOR ROBACH: (Inaudible.)

7 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Mic.

8 SENATOR ROBACH: -- a big job, as you

9 know. Just first, just for clarification,

10 you talked a little bit about the $5 REAL ID.

11 But off of the merits of that -- I think my

12 colleague Tom Croci will probably talk about

13 that more. But what are the other, if any,

14 fees that the Governor has proposed, any

15 increases or anything else in the DMV budget,

16 and what would they be in the aggregate?

17 And I only say that because it seems

18 like every year, and I really try to read

19 this stuff, there's always some constituent

20 contact later who's identified something we

21 didn't know about that gets put on him.

22 Oftentimes, it seems like it's in DMV.

23 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure. So

24 just so I understand the question, it's what

176

1 other fees are being proposed outside of REAL

2 ID?

3 SENATOR ROBACH: Any increases over

4 last year.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Okay. We

6 have -- I think the one that's the most

7 significant is the increased fee on having a

8 title issued. That one is -- currently the

9 fee is $50. The proposal is to increase that

10 for originals to $75. For duplicates, the

11 current is $20, and the proposal is to

12 increase that to $40.

13 These fees have not been changed since

14 2005. And as you may know, titles are

15 printed on secured paper. We've had

16 increasing costs with the document stock as

17 well as with mailing and printing and ITS

18 costs. So the proposal is to increase those

19 in those increments, which would net out --

20 the projection is about $81 million for the

21 Dedicated Highway and Bridge Trust Fund.

22 In addition to that, there's a very

23 small increase proposed for those people

24 coming in from out of state looking to have

177

1 their license -- once they reapply and have

2 their license issued to them again, here in

3 New York, in order to do that, it's a

4 $100 fee to receive your license -- you know,

5 to reapply after a revocation period. Those

6 coming from out of state currently, as it is,

7 only have to pay $25. So the proposal is to

8 make it the same.

9 So we would increase that fee for

10 out-of-state people applying for their

11 license from $25 to $75. And I believe

12 that's a modest increase of about $220,000, I

13 believe is projected. And I believe that's

14 for the General Fund.

15 And I think that was -- and then we

16 just have the general increase to the budget

17 to subsidize the full -- the additional FTE.

18 But no additional fees per se other than the

19 REAL ID item that we will speak to.

20 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you.

21 Shifting gears real quick, we've

22 passed a bill now on TNCs and ride-sharing in

23 the Senate twice, and it looks like the

24 consensus very well may be that the task of

178

1 deciding what the criteria will be on

2 checking and vetting those drivers will fall

3 on to -- well, not you, but you in the

4 department. You know, I feel very strongly

5 that we should be using the fullest measures,

6 I will tip my hand.

7 I was wondering what your thoughts

8 are, what you think those recommendations

9 might be to best protect people and vet all

10 drivers as well as maybe level the playing

11 field, since we make one section of drivers

12 already go through established criteria. I

13 was wondering if you think those would be the

14 same, or what you would be recommending or

15 think would be likely to happen.

16 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure,

17 Senator. I mean, and absolutely, we share

18 the concern. We want to make this a very

19 safe endeavor, certainly, as it rolls out.

20 As you may know, at least with the

21 Executive proposal, the department would have

22 30 days from the time of passage to prepare

23 regs that would set forth what that would be,

24 and that the -- we're being -- the method by

179

1 which is something that's going to have to be

2 developed over that time. Sitting here

3 today, I'm not sure what that's going to be.

4 We are engaging in conversation and doing

5 some research as to what may be the best way

6 to do that.

7 And certainly as we go through that,

8 again, it will be done through regulation.

9 It will be done very quickly after hopefully

10 passage of some legislation in this regard.

11 SENATOR ROBACH: Could I ask you, is

12 the current methodology used at least, you

13 know, in New York City -- would you be

14 entertaining that for the rest of the state,

15 a fingerprint check?

16 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Again, we

17 would be looking at that as well as any other

18 identification. As you know, there's several

19 authorities throughout the state that deal

20 with taxi services, and we certainly have

21 experiences across the country that have been

22 dealing with ride-sharing companies. So we

23 would endeavor to take all that in and make a

24 recommendation through the regulation as to

180

1 how best to ensure that these drivers -- the

2 best way that the TNC companies can vet those

3 drivers to make sure we have safe

4 transportation alternatives.

5 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you. Well, let

6 me make the request that I hope -- because

7 what we're trying to vet, obviously, is

8 anything bad or criminal happening. So I

9 hope that even your Motor Vehicles, if you

10 get that job, you will really listen to the

11 folks in law enforcement as to what's the

12 best way --

13 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

14 Absolutely.

15 SENATOR ROBACH: -- not some of the

16 other anecdotal information that's out there.

17 Because -- now I'm wearing my father's hat,

18 not my Senator's hat, and I think it's very,

19 very important that we do the highest

20 protection. This is New York, and we sort of

21 already have a track record of what we've

22 established as to what is the best vetting.

23 I hope that will continue.

24 Just real quickly, too -- and I don't

181

1 even know if you'll have a role. I would

2 also love to see if there's some way for the

3 department to be involved as well as the

4 Legislature. I hope, if we go to

5 ride-sharing, and I think we are going down

6 that road, I was hoping there could be

7 something included to incentivize

8 transporting people with wheelchairs and

9 handicapped people as well. And that could

10 go even above and beyond just ride-sharing

11 companies, but everybody.

12 I've met with countless

13 constituencies, individual people, families

14 of loved ones -- I mean, there really is a

15 need there, not only in my community but

16 across this whole state. So I'm hopeful

17 we'll take full advantage of this

18 opportunity.

19 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

20 Absolutely. And again, I think that the

21 creation of the task force to research and

22 evaluate the handicapped accessibility is

23 certainly a necessary component of this

24 legislation. As you said, there's a need.

182

1 We sitting here certainly don't know

2 what that need is, and I think upstate may be

3 different than downstate needs. And I think

4 we need to take that time and use the task

5 force to explore, with the advocates, with

6 people, experts in this area, as well as our

7 other state agencies, to be able to review

8 that data and then come up with

9 recommendations for that so that we can make

10 sure that all aspects of our communities are

11 being serviced.

12 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you. Thank you

13 for being here today and the job you do every

14 day.

15 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank

16 you, Senator.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you. Thank

18 me.

19 Assemblyman Murray.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Thank you,

21 Mr. Chairman.

22 And thank you for being here, Deputy

23 Commissioner.

24 I wanted to know, is the DMV still

183

1 engaging in the practice of selling personal

2 information of its clients, such as driving

3 records, addresses, makes of vehicles

4 registered, dates of birth, et cetera.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Let me be

6 clear with that, Assemblyman. The department

7 does not sell any license information in

8 bulk. We never sell a Social Security

9 number.

10 The sales of data that goes on,

11 there's particular VTL sections that

12 authorize that. And I will presume for a

13 moment you're talking about the bulk data

14 sales, because we do periodically hear about

15 that in the press.

16 That is specifically authorized in VTL

17 Section 202. It's done by contract, and the

18 purchasers have to comply with the DPPA. And

19 again, that is for license and registration

20 data -- I'm sorry, it is registration and

21 title data, not license data. And it never

22 contains a Social Security number.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Not a Social

24 Security, but it does include things like

184

1 driver's records, addresses, what types of

2 vehicles are sold and registered, things of

3 that nature? And who is that information

4 sold to?

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: It does.

6 But it is not personal information. There's

7 an actual legal definition of what's personal

8 information, and that type of stuff is not.

9 And who purchases it. We have -- it's

10 an IFB process that we go through. Right now

11 it's an every-two-year process. We have two

12 contracts in place right now of purchasers of

13 that bulk data of the reg and title file.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: And how much do

15 you generally make or make on this on an

16 annual basis? The number I heard last was

17 about 60 million.

18 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah,

19 that's a little convoluted. Overall, for all

20 the data we sell, is about 60 million.

21 However, the contract data that I think

22 causes the most concern and certainly the

23 most press interest is about $2.2 million out

24 of the 60. The balance is done on

185

1 over-the-counter sales, and that's about

2 $3 million. And then really the bulk of the

3 sales is really a pay per search, and that's

4 done through an account with the Department

5 of Motor Vehicles and it's done by mostly

6 insurance companies that are checking, again,

7 driving records, employers that need to check

8 driving records before employment and things

9 like that. But that's where the bulk -- the

10 data sales, the bulk data sales that creates

11 the most concern really is about a $2 million

12 piece.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Being in

14 marketing myself in the private sector, I

15 get, you know, why and how this is going

16 about. But the concern is this. When a

17 story was run on Long Island, News 12 went

18 out on the street, they started interviewing

19 people and asked them, Are you aware of this

20 practice even happening? I'd say

21 99.9 percent of the people had absolutely no

22 idea this was happening and were a little bit

23 upset about it.

24 Is there a process for which they can

186

1 opt out? And how do we let the consumers

2 know that this practice is being engaged in

3 in the first place?

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure.

5 Again, when this legislation was initially

6 passed, there was an opt-in, opt-out

7 provision. At the agency, we actually opted

8 everybody out, because we assumed most people

9 would not want their information sold. So we

10 do an opt-out.

11 The information that's actually being

12 sold pursuant to this section is done

13 pursuant to the statutory section. So we

14 try, as those articles come out, to let

15 people know we are not doing anything

16 different than what, you know, VTL and the

17 legislation tells us to do in regard to

18 selling the registration and the title

19 information. And there's a specific purpose

20 set forth in the contract. It has to do -- I

21 don't have the VTL section directly in front

22 of me, but some of it is for research

23 purposes, it is for recall information, and

24 things like that. It is not just general

187

1 marketing sales. And it's set forth pursuant

2 to the statute.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Where does the

4 money that you get from this, where does that

5 go?

6 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I do not

7 know. The answer to that is not to DMV. I

8 would guess the General Fund, but I can check

9 and we can get back to you on that.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Okay, very good.

11 Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

14 We've been joined by Senator Elaine

15 Phillips.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: We've been joined

17 by Assemblyman Mosley.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

19 And our next speaker is Senator Croci,

20 who is chair of the Homeland Security

21 Committee.

22 SENATOR CROCI: Deputy Commissioner,

23 thank you for joining us today.

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Hi,

188

1 Senator, how are you?

2 SENATOR CROCI: I'm doing very well.

3 I read your testimony with regard to

4 REAL ID. So when this was passed in 2005 and

5 signed into law by the president, it was a

6 recommendation based on the 9/11 Commission

7 recognizing that New York suffered

8 disproportionately in the attacks of 9/11.

9 One would think that New York would have been

10 the leader in implementation of this very

11 important program designed to prevent

12 individuals who come to this country to do us

13 harm from conducting attacks on us.

14 So after over 12 years of this being

15 law -- Governor Cuomo has been governor for

16 seven years -- I would like to know why this

17 is the first budget we are seeing this in and

18 why, since the federal government gave us

19 money and all the states money for

20 compliance, why there's a need to pass on

21 this cost to residents when the money has

22 already been given for compliance.

23 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure.

24 Certainly, Senator.

189

1 Again, as you pointed out, the federal

2 legislation was passed in 2005. And I would

3 say over the last several years the direction

4 that the states have received from the

5 federal government in regard to the REAL ID

6 Act has not been necessarily real clear.

7 Deadlines really weren't deadlines. It is

8 fairly recently, within the last year and a

9 half or two years, that in fact there has

10 been a very clear timeline set forth by the

11 federal Department of Homeland Security.

12 During that whole period of time we've

13 been engaged in conversation with the federal

14 DHS trying to ascertain what the most

15 cost-effective way was to meet the

16 requirements of the federal REAL ID Act. We

17 have -- as you aptly pointed out, there had

18 been REAL ID grants that have been provided

19 over time, and we took advantage of those and

20 in fact updated our systems in various parts

21 of that that were needed to be able to meet

22 the requirements of the federal REAL ID Act.

23 SENATOR CROCI: That took 10 years?

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: And those

190

1 have -- those have happened, and we continue

2 to work through this.

3 But as I pointed out, in addition to

4 improving our systems, which is an IT system,

5 and some proofing and processes there,

6 there's also the FTE, the in-office expense,

7 which is not something that's reimbursed by

8 the federal government. And based on our

9 projections -- and as you see, now that we

10 are prepared to put out a proposal as to how

11 we would roll this out, really the expense

12 now is for people in our offices. Because it

13 does require individuals to come into an

14 office for an in-office visit in order to

15 secure a REAL ID-compliant document.

16 The expense really on that is to be

17 able to staff our offices in such a way that

18 we can manage what we believe is the

19 projected volume of people coming in, and at

20 the same time be able to maintain our service

21 levels. Because I didn't want to have to be

22 here next year telling you why our lines are

23 back to three or four hours, so --

24 SENATOR CROCI: So you're saying it

191

1 was because DHS in Washington didn't produce

2 clear guidelines that New York wasn't

3 compliant. But 49 -- until 2015, when

4 New York finally requested a waiver, we were

5 one of three jurisdictions and one of one

6 state who had not been compliant. All of the

7 other states seemed to have been getting

8 clear enough guidance from the federal

9 government in order to implement this. We

10 were one of three: New York State, Guam and

11 American Samoa.

12 Now, I can understand why there may

13 not a sense of urgency for those two

14 jurisdictions. But for the Empire State, the

15 site of the 9/11 attacks, why were we not

16 able to decipher the same clear guidance that

17 49 other states did?

18 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Again,

19 it's a little bit complicated, Senator. But

20 I would say that some of those states that

21 were on the extension or even the compliant

22 list ironically had statutes on the books

23 that kept them from being compliant. So it

24 was a little odd how that listing actually

192

1 was --

2 SENATOR CROCI: Which ones are we

3 referring to?

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I can get

5 you that list --

6 SENATOR CROCI: Florida or Georgia?

7 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I'm not

8 sure which ones were. But there were some

9 states that had received either compliant or

10 were in the extension bucket that really we

11 were much further ahead, when you look at our

12 overall license processes and how stringent

13 we are as to how we do that.

14 So we understand certainly the

15 concern. And, you know, as soon as we asked

16 for the waiver -- or the extension, really --

17 it was granted. I think the federal

18 government is certainly aware and

19 acknowledges the very strict guidelines that

20 we go through on a regular basis here in

21 New York. We do have one of the strictest

22 license processes in the country.

23 But it is -- the REAL ID Act is also a

24 very technical, complicated series of things

193

1 that we have to go through, and we have been

2 working through that and have provided a plan

3 to them that has allowed us to be on

4 extension now and waiting for full

5 compliance.

6 SENATOR CROCI: Thank you. So the

7 money that we received from the federal

8 government for compliance, what was that used

9 for?

10 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: It was

11 used for various things in order to be able

12 to have our process deemed compliant. Some

13 of it had to do with the way we display

14 addresses, how we display names on the

15 licenses. It was for IT changes.

16 SENATOR CROCI: How much did we

17 receive?

18 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I can get

19 that to you. I think it was the realm of

20 $7 million over several years.

21 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. So what the

22 Governor is proposing now is a three-tiered

23 system, correct?

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is

194

1 correct.

2 SENATOR CROCI: What's the difference

3 between the documentation required and the

4 verification between a standard license and a

5 REAL ID license, just so everybody

6 understands?

7 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I will

8 try to do that, will try to do it as simply

9 as possible.

10 We are proposing three documents. The

11 EDL, which many of you are familiar with and

12 has been actually REAL ID-compliant since

13 2008, we will continue to offer that as a

14 document. Again, that has -- besides being

15 REAL ID-compliant, it also allows you the

16 ability to get back and forth across the

17 border with Canada, for example, so it has an

18 additional functionality.

19 We will be offering the REAL

20 ID-compliant document which will be in many

21 ways our -- what we call our default

22 document, and that will enable anyone to get

23 in and out of federal facilities, it will

24 enable one to fly.

195

1 And then the third document will be

2 marked "Not for Federal Purpose" document,

3 and that will be provided to -- you know, as

4 I said, I have family members who said, Hey,

5 we're 78, we don't want to have to go into an

6 office and get one of these fancy new

7 licenses. Those people can opt for a "not

8 for Federal Purpose" document. Someone that

9 cannot necessarily meet the standards for the

10 REAL ID or the EDL would also be eligible for

11 the "Not for Federal" document. And we

12 wanted to make sure that we offered a

13 document that would enable everyone to be

14 able to continue to drive that would be

15 otherwise eligible to drive.

16 SENATOR CROCI: You mentioned Canada.

17 So in awarding some of the contracts to

18 produce the new driver's license, the

19 Governor awarded CBN Secure Technologies, a

20 Canadian company, a contract for

21 $88.5 million to produce licenses made of

22 polycarbonate. This was deemed by the

23 Comptroller to be 40 percent above the lowest

24 bidder. Can you explain why it was awarded?

196

1 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure, a

2 couple of things with that. Actually, it's a

3 Virginia company. And they do produce the

4 licenses here in the State of New York. We

5 did not have any New York companies bidding

6 on the contract. And again, as a result of

7 our requirements to have a very strict,

8 fraudulent-free document, we felt the

9 additional security features that CBN was

10 able to provide to us made the value that we

11 were paying worth it.

12 SENATOR CROCI: Okay. And with regard

13 to these three classes of licenses, why would

14 DMV need to continue to offer just a standard

15 driver's license? And what populations

16 wouldn't be able to obtain a REAL ID?

17 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure. A

18 couple of things. We want to make sure that

19 everyone has an ability to drive if they

20 otherwise can meet our identification and our

21 testing requirements.

22 To be eligible for the EDL, you have

23 to be a U.S. citizen. For the REAL ID, you

24 have to be a citizen or legally present.

197

1 There is a small body of people that are

2 otherwise eligible, currently, for the

3 New York State license that in addition to

4 making sure we wanted to be able to offer

5 others, if they didn't want to pay the

6 additional $5 --

7 SENATOR CROCI: Well, why should they

8 have to pay the additional $5 if New York has

9 been dragging its feet with compliance? I

10 don't see why that fee should be passed on to

11 our residents.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Well, the

13 "Not for Federal Purpose" ID will not carry

14 the additional $5, it will only be the REAL

15 ID-compliant documents that will carry the

16 additional 5.

17 And as we've gone through the budget

18 process, we had hoped to be able to absorb

19 that cost into our budget, but as budget

20 discussions proceeded this year, it became

21 apparent that we could not. And we thought

22 that a $5 cost over an eight-year license was

23 a modest cost to allow us to be able to make

24 sure we were compliant and make sure that our

198

1 citizens here in New York could get into

2 federal facilities and fly.

3 SENATOR CROCI: So the $5 cost being

4 passed on to our residents to be compliant

5 with federal law is because we're doing it

6 this year and because for the past seven

7 budget cycles we sought not to address it.

8 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I don't

9 think that's the case, sir. Because I think

10 the situation would still be, again, the

11 significant portion of this budget is a

12 result of the FTEs that we have to have in

13 our offices to be able to process all the

14 individuals coming in. So I don't believe it

15 is a result of just the timing on this.

16 SENATOR CROCI: But for seven years,

17 we could have been issuing renewed licenses

18 that were compliant. And now we're going to

19 a three-tiered system, which many other

20 states have found a way to comply with a

21 single license. Which I think you will agree

22 was the spirit of the law when passed by

23 Congress, when recommended by the 9/11

24 Commission, was that there would be a single

199

1 system in which an individual given that kind

2 of a government ID could be assured, as could

3 authorities, that there was verification of

4 every document that went into issuing that

5 license.

6 So what you're telling me is in our

7 new three-tiered system that's being proposed

8 in this budget, there will be individuals who

9 will be getting a driver's license that will

10 not be REAL ID-compliant, and we will have no

11 way of verifying if the documents they

12 provided to get that license are true.

13 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: No, I

14 disagree with that. All of the documents

15 that are even being provided for the third

16 document, the "Not for Federal ID Purpose,"

17 still are going to meet our stringent

18 identification requirements that we have

19 today.

20 SENATOR CROCI: Well, what does that

21 mean, ma'am? Because that means if it's a

22 birth certificate, you have to go back to the

23 issuing clerk who issued that birth

24 certificate to verify it was issued in that

200

1 jurisdiction. You're saying that's going to

2 occur even for the third class?

3 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Again,

4 for the "Not for Federal Purpose," that

5 license -- you will get a license as you get

6 that today as long as you can meet those

7 requirements.

8 And again, the difference is that "Not

9 for Federal Purpose" document, because it

10 does not have the additional residency

11 requirements and some of the other

12 verifications that the REAL ID document

13 requires, as deemed by the federal law, those

14 people with a "Not for Federal Purpose"

15 document, unless they have a passport, for

16 example, the difference that they will have

17 as they go into an airport or a federal

18 building, they will have to go through

19 secondary screening.

20 But from a confidence perspective from

21 New York State, those people that are getting

22 the "Not for Federal Purpose" document will

23 be vetted as we vet people today, which is a

24 very stringent identification process.

201

1 SENATOR CROCI: Again, ma'am, my --

2 and I'm out of time. My frustration is

3 certainly not with you or the commissioner,

4 but with the fact that this could have been

5 addressed in seven other budget cycles, and

6 now it seems to me this cost is going to be

7 passed on to the residents of this state who,

8 through no fault of their own, are going

9 about their business and getting their

10 license, not recognizing that it's not

11 federal compliant, and they're going to get

12 on an airplane -- our local paper, Newsday,

13 and the reporter who covers this did an

14 excellent job of covering what this would

15 mean. And if you go into any of the

16 airports, you see the signs that say "You're

17 not going to be able to board with your ID."

18 I'm very frustrated that this is still

19 ongoing and we're still not compliant, and I

20 hope that we can expeditiously clean this up,

21 because it's been a mess.

22 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

23 Understood, Senator. And just so we're

24 clear, though, as long as we -- in our

202

1 current status, between now and the time of

2 being fully compliant, all of New York

3 licenses will still get you on a plane

4 through October of 2020. So I just want to

5 make sure -- I know there's been a lot of

6 confusion out there --

7 SENATOR CROCI: Provided that federal

8 waiver remains in place.

9 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is

10 correct. But I have no reason to believe

11 that that will be anything other than

12 extended or us receiving a full compliance

13 determination shortly.

14 SENATOR CROCI: Well, I very much

15 appreciate your testimony here today. Thank

16 you, ma'am.

17 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank

18 you.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

20 Assemblyman Cusick.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Thank you,

22 Mr. Chairman.

23 Commissioner, thank you. Thank you

24 for coming here today.

203

1 I just have a quick question. I'm

2 going to put on my Election Law chairman hat

3 here. I see in your testimony you tout that

4 last year there were over 600,000 people who

5 registered to vote on the DMV website. Is

6 that an increase from -- do you see more

7 people using it to register to vote?

8 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes, the

9 short answer. Yes. And we had such a large

10 volume, in fact, during the primary year this

11 year, in addition to the myDMV site, we were

12 able to work with ITS and create an equally

13 secure but basically stand-alone enrollment

14 site to be able to accept applications that

15 were forwarded on to the boards of election.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Well, that's --

17 you're segueing nicely into my next question.

18 Could you go through how it actually

19 works, without getting into the real

20 technicalities? Because I know that in the

21 budget proposal there's some language on

22 doing similar things with other agencies. I

23 know that our house and the Senate have been

24 looking at ideas to make it easier for people

204

1 to register. And it is easier for folks now

2 to go on a website and register to vote. So

3 right now DMV is the only agency that does

4 this, so DMV is used as an example.

5 So just quickly, I know -- I'm not

6 going to ask for technicalities, but for

7 folks that are listening, how would this

8 work?

9 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure.

10 I'm glad it's not the technical part, because

11 I'd have to defer to someone else.

12 And it used to be where you had to

13 create a myDMV account, which there's various

14 levels of information that we ask for so that

15 we can validate your identity. We basically

16 took that and just mirrored it in a

17 stand-alone web service. So there's certain

18 information that an applicant would go to

19 fill in that we ping against our DMV database

20 so that we can verify the person actually

21 trying to sign up is the person they say that

22 they are.

23 They would fill out the application,

24 and then that electronic application -- and I

205

1 want to again emphasize it's an application,

2 which what we do is send it on to the boards

3 of election, and then it's the boards of

4 election that would actually register the

5 voters.

6 That's in essence what it is. And

7 it's a pretty quick fill-in-the-box, there's

8 a ping in the background to make sure that

9 you are who you say. And once we can do that

10 and you check the box that says I am who I

11 am, with some other validations and

12 authorizations, it goes off electronically to

13 the boards of election.

14 In regard to the proposal, you

15 mentioned the Governor's proposal, we are

16 working through that and we will be working

17 with the Board of Elections, and then I would

18 guess other agencies where this may be rolled

19 out to, depending on how the legislation

20 comes through. But we certainly stand ready,

21 willing and able to implement anything that's

22 passed.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: That's great.

24 And we had a hearing at the end of last year

206

1 on the Election Law with cybersecurity when

2 it comes to -- and the question I have for

3 you, were there any indications that people

4 were trying to corrupt the DMV website or

5 anything like that? Because specifically

6 with now using it for registering to vote,

7 we're looking at possible voter fraud or

8 registering, like you said, people who are

9 not the person they are making themselves out

10 to be, trying to register to vote. Were

11 there any indications of anybody trying to

12 corrupt the website?

13 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: A very

14 timely question. And no, there is none. I

15 would certainly defer to ITS when it comes to

16 the cybersecurity piece, because they're the

17 ones that actually take care of that from the

18 site. But no, we had no indication that

19 there was any problem with hacking or

20 cybersecurity.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Okay. Thank you,

22 Commissioner.

23 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

207

1 Senator?

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

3 much. Welcome. We're so happy to have you

4 here today. And thank you for your

5 service to the people of New York. And

6 obviously the DMV is a very vital agency

7 that people sometimes are very happy with

8 and sometimes get very frustrated with.

9 So thank you for everything you do.

10 But I did want to follow up on the

11 questions regarding the REAL ID program,

12 because didn't the DMV say that it would

13 issue REAL ID documents at the same cost as

14 regular licenses?

15 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That was

16 a bit ago when we submitted our proposal to

17 DHS and we announced what we intended our

18 program to be.

19 We had hoped that we would be able to

20 absorb it within our budget. And as we went

21 through discussions, through the fall and

22 into -- before the Executive Budget was

23 proposed, it became apparent that we could

24 not.

208

1 And trying to balance all things being

2 considered, we had hoped that the Legislature

3 will agree that a $5 fee -- and that's a $5

4 additional fee for an eight-year license, so

5 it's really less than a dollar a year that

6 would be imposed for this -- would be

7 something that would be able to be supported

8 so that we could get this program implemented

9 starting October of '17.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

11 I do think that a lot of people in

12 this state feel like they're taxed and fee'd

13 to death already. And I do have the press

14 release when you made the announcement that

15 said that there would not be an additional

16 cost. You've kind of referenced it, but you

17 haven't really, and I just wanted to ask

18 directly. Has the federal government

19 approved New York's plan to adopt the REAL ID

20 licenses?

21 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: It has

22 put us on extension. So the easy answer is

23 no, it's not a full compliance determination.

24 And the way they handle this is right

209

1 now, actually if you go to their website,

2 there's states that are compliant, there's

3 states that are on extension, there's states

4 that are on limited extension, and there's

5 states that are noncompliant. We are in the

6 bucket that are on extension. That extension

7 extends through October of '17. What DHS has

8 said to not only us but to all the other

9 states -- my understanding is all the other

10 states that are in the extension budget -- as

11 long as you continue to move towards full

12 compliance, we will continue to keep you on

13 extension. And there has been no indication

14 with our conversations on how we've been

15 moving forward with this that they would do

16 anything other than keep us on extension or

17 deem us compliant.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And when do you

19 think that full compliance will occur?

20 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We would

21 hope when we issue our first document. I

22 think that DHS has taken the approach so far

23 that they want to see a document actually

24 produced, and then they will make a

210

1 determination.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And when will that

3 be?

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: If

5 everything goes well and this budget is

6 supported and passed, we hope it would be

7 fall, and hopefully early October.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

9 Obviously this has an impact on our

10 local county clerks, who do a great job. You

11 said you've been in discussions with them.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: With the

13 county clerks? The county clerks are

14 certainly aware of this program. It is a

15 situation -- and again, I'm sure many of you

16 know that our relationship with the county

17 clerks is that we have a revenue-sharing

18 agreement with them in regard to transactions

19 that are done in their offices.

20 As a result of -- you know, in the

21 event that this budget is passed, in addition

22 to what we are seeing as just the

23 natural-occurring license renewal volumes

24 returning next year, the revenue-sharing

211

1 piece for the county clerks, which was about

2 $44 million or $45 million this year, will

3 actually extend to $55 million next year in

4 the event that this budget is actually

5 passed.

6 Their sharing piece, just if we were

7 to consider the increased license renewal

8 volumes alone, will go to almost $50 million

9 next year, just with that piece. But with

10 the additional legislative increases that are

11 in the budget now, that piece would go to

12 almost $55 million.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I think there's a

14 bit of concern out there regarding being

15 overwhelmed by people wanting to renew their

16 licenses and possibly having extensive

17 delays. What would you recommend to do to

18 address those types of situations?

19 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: In

20 general, or with the county clerks?

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: With the clerks.

22 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: With the

23 clerks, sure. I mean -- and again, while

24 they are our agents, we certainly do not tell

212

1 them how to manage their offices. As with

2 our offices and with budget situations,

3 sometimes we staff up and sometimes we staff

4 down, depending on where we are. And that's

5 something that we go through certainly on a

6 four-to-eight-year cycle because of what we

7 know about the license renewal volumes.

8 We certainly will continue to speak

9 with them. But again, I just want to be

10 clear that the revenue that they will be

11 receiving will be a significant increase

12 during this time period also.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Do you think people

14 will be able to make reservations at the

15 local offices, at least some of them?

16 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Again, we

17 don't control what the county clerks do in

18 regard to reservations. Certainly at our

19 state-operated offices we do have reservation

20 systems available.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, thank you.

22 Switching gears a little bit, although

23 the Legislature and the Governor have not

24 negotiated a final ride-sharing bill, could

213

1 you give me what DMV's vision would be of a

2 statewide ride-sharing program?

3 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure. It

4 is my understanding, as the Executive has

5 envisioned it, that we would be the point

6 agency for this. We would be in charge of

7 providing the application that was necessary

8 for the ride-sharing companies to apply for

9 approval to operate in the area outside of

10 New York City. We would review that.

11 In the next -- in the 30 days

12 immediately subsequent to the passing of the

13 legislation, we would be preparing

14 regulations to advise the companies on the

15 method by which they would need to vet their

16 drivers, and then provide us information that

17 they had vetted those drivers.

18 In addition to that, it would be the

19 agency's role and responsibility to audit as

20 necessary and also to field complaints on

21 that.

22 And as you can see, I believe the

23 proposal is for an additional five FTE for

24 the budget for DMV, so that we can secure the

214

1 additional resources to make sure that we can

2 roll this out in the most efficient way we

3 can.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

5 So as you point out, there's -- so the

6 Executive Budget provides $34.24 million for

7 DMV, which includes a $15.8 million or

8 4.8 percent increase over this past fiscal

9 year. Is that strictly for REAL ID, or is it

10 for other tasks?

11 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: No, it's

12 for everything. The $16 million really --

13 very quickly, high level, about $11 million

14 of that is for the additional 107 FTE. Then

15 it breaks down to about -- there's another

16 3 million or so for REAL ID and the increased

17 license renewal volume having to do with

18 documents, photocopying, IT costs and

19 postage. And then there's about $520,000 for

20 contract increases, about $950,000 for

21 kiosks, additional kiosks. And I believe

22 there was another $500,000 for something

23 that's escaping me. But that's at high

24 level.

215

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, thank you.

2 Chairman?

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

4 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

5 Helene Weinstein.

6 And next, Assemblyman Buchwald.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: Thank you,

8 Mr. Chairman.

9 And thank you, Deputy Commissioner,

10 for your time this afternoon --

11 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Mic.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: Thank you,

13 Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Deputy

14 Commissioner --

15 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I could

16 hear you fine.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: I appreciate

18 that, thank you. But good for the folks at

19 home too.

20 Railroad crossings continue to be a

21 significant concern for many New Yorkers.

22 The Governor has rightly prioritized trying

23 to eliminate at-grade railroad crossings

24 around the state. But there's one area

216

1 that's very specifically under your

2 department's purview, which is the points

3 assigned for violations at railroad

4 crossings.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Correct.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: Right now

7 3 points are assigned, which is the same

8 level of infraction as speeding from one to

9 10 miles per hour over the speed limit.

10 It's my understanding, if you were to

11 talk with some of your colleagues in

12 government who deal with transportation --

13 for example, the MTA -- they would like to

14 see an increase in that point value. I

15 certainly would like to see it, as someone

16 who represents a district that contains many

17 railroad grade crossings.

18 And my sense of things is that given

19 that the state, both through its

20 infrastructure investments and through its

21 educational campaigns done, say, through the

22 MTA, are trying to convey to members of the

23 public how serious traffic infractions can be

24 when they're at railroad crossings. I would

217

1 be very interested in hearing your thoughts

2 on whether the DMV is considering increasing

3 that point threshold.

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I think

5 the good news is you are omniscient, and we

6 did that in August of last year. That's

7 what I want to check to see.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: I'm going to

9 appreciate that, especially since it stands

10 in contrast to the department's response to

11 my request about a year prior.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: In August

13 of 2016, we amended our regs to increase the

14 number of points from 3 to 5.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: That's

16 fantastic. I would then ask humbly if you

17 could update your website to also reflect

18 that.

19 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: You

20 absolutely can. It will be done before I get

21 back, I'm guessing.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: But also I

23 think some sort of public notification,

24 because I do think this is something that --

218

1 it's not as much about punishing misdeeds as

2 it is trying to prevent those infractions in

3 the first place.

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

5 Absolutely. And one of the hats that I very

6 happily wear is being the current chair of

7 the Governor's Traffic Safety Committee. So

8 as visual as the Department of Motor Vehicles

9 is, I think saving lives certainly is my main

10 priority. And through the Governor's Traffic

11 Safety Committee, we work with Operation

12 Lifesaver and various others to try to do

13 grants for education. Because again, it's

14 very difficult to change behavior. I think

15 Commissioner Driscoll pointed that out

16 several times when they were talking about

17 the work zone safety cameras. And it really

18 is a combination of engineering, education,

19 and enforcement that actually gets us to

20 change those behaviors.

21 So we are absolutely with you on that,

22 Assemblyman, and we will continue to fund

23 those efforts to the extent we can through

24 grants. And we'll very quickly update our

219

1 website to reflect what we did back in

2 August.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: Thank you very

4 much.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank

6 you.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN BUCHWALD: And obviously

8 there are lots of other questions related to

9 the budget, but I'll let my colleagues get on

10 to those. So thank you.

11 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you

12 so much.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

15 Senator Dilan.

16 SENATOR DILAN: Good afternoon.

17 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Good

18 afternoon, Senator.

19 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

20 In your testimony you mention your

21 enforcement efforts. Can you tell us, have

22 these enforcement efforts generated any

23 revenues, and how were they used?

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: The

220

1 Operation Prevent ones with the underage

2 drinking? Is that the ones you're talking

3 about?

4 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. And the sweeps

5 and fraudulent licenses.

6 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah,

7 sure. We work very closely with the State

8 Liquor Authority as well as state and local

9 law enforcement to identify areas that are

10 concerns. And often this time of year it

11 tends to be around college campuses. So they

12 do go and, as we do those sweeps, there are

13 administrative procedures that we take in

14 regard to suspending licenses.

15 And then depending on who actually

16 issues the tickets, there is some revenue. I

17 can track that down for you. I'm not exactly

18 sure what bucket that goes into.

19 SENATOR DILAN: Okay. Thank you.

20 And sticking with enforcement, I don't

21 know how you may be involved with Leandra's

22 Law. Can you give us any update on that?

23 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Leandra's

24 Law?

221

1 SENATOR DILAN: Yes.

2 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

3 Certainly. We continue -- again, this is

4 another one through the Governor's Traffic

5 Safety Committee. We work with all of our

6 safety partners throughout the state on that,

7 in trying to find ways to continue to use

8 that law and enforce it in a way that starts

9 to make a meaningful difference. So we

10 continue to work with the interlock program.

11 We work very closely with DCJS, Department of

12 Probation, in regard to ensuring as high a

13 compliance as we can get with the interlock

14 piece.

15 Certainly the legislation that was

16 passed in regard to more significant

17 penalties, the courts are continuing to

18 process and certainly prosecute those.

19 And what we are finding -- and again,

20 it's hard to do a definite correlation

21 between Leandra's Law and where we are. What

22 we are finding, though, in regard to our

23 crash fatality statistics, alcohol is

24 becoming less of a factor and drug-impaired

222

1 is becoming a larger factor.

2 So we are starting to affect I think

3 in a positive way the alcohol piece and I

4 think also, as I pointed out in our

5 testimony, to try to address the

6 drug-impaired piece. We have got a very

7 active drug recognition expert training

8 program here in the state that really is a

9 model nationally on how we are doing that to

10 again try to combat that impaired piece also.

11 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

12 With respect to the REAL ID --

13 hopefully a quick answer -- one, how are we

14 out of compliance with what the federal

15 government is expecting? And technically,

16 isn't our enhanced driver's license then

17 replacing or -- what's the comparison between

18 the REAL ID and the current enhanced, and how

19 are we out of compliance.

20 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

21 Certainly. The proposal right now is not to

22 replace the EDL. We would continue to

23 provide that. Again, we do -- there's

24 probably about 800,000 people that have

223

1 purchased the EDL. And again, the added

2 functionality is it can be used at the

3 borders, to be able to cross the borders. So

4 we do not have a plan currently to replace

5 that.

6 And in regard to how we are out of

7 compliance now, it's very technical. We can

8 continue to have a conversation offline on

9 it. But we believe we have a plan with ITS,

10 as well as what we've proposed to the federal

11 government, that will have us fully

12 compliant.

13 SENATOR DILAN: But you can't explain

14 how we are out of compliance. Or you'll give

15 us that information?

16 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: It has to

17 do with -- really with a lot of security

18 things that I'd rather not have a public

19 conversation about.

20 SENATOR DILAN: With respect then to

21 ride-share, I understand that you're getting

22 107 new FTEs. Five of them will be for the

23 ride-share component. Exactly what will

24 these five people be doing? And is five

224

1 sufficient to really operate that operation?

2 And also, how long will it take you to

3 put together your regulations? And let me

4 just add another part to that, is I agree

5 with Senator Robach with respect to the ADA

6 compliance. So with your regulations

7 hopefully something can be written at the

8 very beginning with respect to that, safety

9 issues, and insurance.

10 So if you could discuss that. Thank

11 you.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Sure.

13 Great questions.

14 Again, ride-sharing in upstate is a

15 new program. We believe the five FTEs that

16 are being allocated in this particular budget

17 will be there to help draft, review the

18 applications themselves, as well as to be

19 there to field complaints that will start, as

20 well as the audit procedure.

21 We at DMV, we have a very robust

22 investigative group, our Division of Field

23 Investigation, so we believe we will be able

24 to absorb the other complaint investigation

225

1 audit piece within what we have in connection

2 with the five that we are given.

3 In regard to time frame, I believe the

4 legislation, at least in the Executive

5 proposal, requires us within the first 30

6 days after the legislation is imposed to have

7 at least the background regulations done. So

8 we certainly will comply with that. And then

9 I believe it's a 90-day, I think, for the

10 rest of the regs.

11 So we will certainly -- we're ready,

12 willing and able to meet those legislative

13 requirements.

14 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you, Senator.

16 Chairman?

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, it's back to

19 us. So Senator Savino.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

21 Young.

22 Thank you, Commissioner. I just have

23 a question. I want to talk a bit about the

24 expansion of ride-sharing upstate. I know

226

1 you've covered a lot of it.

2 So the DMV would be responsible for,

3 tasked with determining the method in which

4 background checks are conducted.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Correct.

6 SENATOR SAVINO: But it would be the

7 transportation networks that would do the

8 background checks?

9 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That is

10 correct.

11 SENATOR SAVINO: Is there any reason

12 why the DMV wouldn't do them?

13 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Quite

14 frankly, we have no idea what we'd be doing

15 with the background check. It really

16 could -- this is really more of a law

17 enforcement group. We certainly intended,

18 when we saw this legislation, part of what we

19 would be doing in the first 30 days

20 after this was passed would be consulting

21 very strongly and regularly with the Division

22 of Criminal Justice Services, who are -- who

23 is the group that's familiar with background

24 checks.

227

1 So -- and I do believe that in several

2 other states there is a methodology set up

3 within those states where it is not the

4 particular state agency that's overseeing it

5 that's done it, but there is requirements set

6 forth to the companies on how to do it, and

7 then they have to meet those certifications

8 and just certify to us that it's been

9 completed.

10 SENATOR SAVINO: Because I believe in

11 the Article VII language it says that the DMV

12 will approve -- let me see. The method must

13 be approved by the Department of Motor

14 Vehicles. So under what criteria would you

15 determine that it's approved?

16 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: That's a

17 good question. And I think that's what we're

18 going to have to be, you know, dealing with

19 as we create the regulations within the first

20 30 days of the legislation being passed.

21 I believe it would be we would set the

22 methodology as to what needed to be done, and

23 then we will have to work through on the regs

24 what proof we will be asking for from the

228

1 companies to give us a level of comfort that

2 that methodology was met.

3 SENATOR SAVINO: I know there's also

4 been some question about whether or not

5 fingerprinting should be a requirement. As

6 you know, in the City of New York the

7 ride-sharing programs are regulated by the

8 TLC, and so fingerprinting is done through

9 them, as it's a requirement of operation in

10 the City of New York.

11 Is there any reason why we should

12 expect that it wouldn't be part of any of the

13 TNCs that you -- and the background checks

14 that you would approve?

15 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah, I

16 think right now it's just a little premature.

17 I don't know that we can say we're going to

18 follow that exact same model.

19 Again, I think that model was

20 determined after negotiation and some MOUs

21 and some legal proceedings that are down

22 there.

23 I certainly know that other

24 ride-sharing companies operating in other

229

1 states do not necessarily operate that same

2 way. I'm not saying we won't, I'm just

3 saying at this point I think it's just a

4 little premature, that we will be looking

5 into all of that when we determine, you know,

6 within that first 30 days what that

7 methodology will be. And it will be

8 certainly in conjunction with our sister

9 agencies that have experience in this area.

10 SENATOR SAVINO: I just think it's

11 important that -- you know, by the way, other

12 states do things differently than New York --

13 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

14 Absolutely.

15 SENATOR SAVINO: -- but we like to

16 consider ourselves a leader in many areas.

17 And I think it's important that there be

18 consistency across the industry. You know, I

19 understand the importance of ride-sharing. I

20 understand how there are parts of upstate

21 that are transportation deserts, and we do

22 need to find a way to expand ride-sharing

23 upstate.

24 But I also, you know, have said this

230

1 many times, a taxi is a taxi. If you pick

2 people up and drive them around and you

3 charge them money, you're a taxi. And I

4 think we should be concerned about having

5 this hodgepodge of an approach towards, you

6 know, what is essentially the transportation

7 industry. We don't want to have a scenario

8 where we have a highly regulated taxi

9 industry of black cars and base cars and

10 yellow cars or whatever they happen to be in

11 upstate New York, and then you have another

12 one that has some special status that

13 doesn't seem to -- they don't seem to jibe.

14 And most importantly, we want to make

15 sure that the people that are picked up,

16 driven around, and charged money are

17 protected at every step of the process.

18 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

19 Absolutely.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: So I would hope that

21 that be part of the discussion and that we

22 make sure that whoever is in those cars

23 driving those people around are vetted, and

24 we know who they are, and that they are in

231

1 fact safe to pick people up and drive them

2 around.

3 (Applause from the audience.)

4 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I

5 absolutely agree with you, Senator.

6 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

7 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thanks.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 Senator?

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

11 Our next speaker is Senator Liz

12 Krueger.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good afternoon.

14 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: How are

15 you?

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Fine, thank you.

17 So when Senator Croci was asking you

18 questions about the airports and the REAL ID,

19 he said that there were posters up that

20 apparently were providing incorrect

21 information, based on your answer that

22 because of the waiver, we are okay through

23 2020?

24 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yes. I

232

1 think what the posters -- and I actually

2 haven't been able to fly to see one. I think

3 the posters say starting on January 1st of

4 2018, REAL ID will be starting to be enforced

5 here at the airport, and your state either

6 needs to be on extension or compliant if we

7 are going to honor your state driver license.

8 So in our particular case, we are

9 good. Our state driver license will continue

10 to be honored at airports and in federal

11 buildings until October of 2020.

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: So are these FAA

13 federal posters that are going up?

14 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah,

15 it's -- I believe it's TSA is doing it.

16 Because again, they are trying to start their

17 education efforts about REAL ID. You know,

18 as the Senator pointed out, this has been a

19 program that's been long coming with a lot of

20 fits and starts. And I think they're trying

21 to underscore we are really doing it this

22 time.

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: So it's been

24 confusing enough recently at airports for

233

1 people. Is there a way for the State of

2 New York to put up its own posters right next

3 door to those posters saying "And we're okay

4 here in New York State till 2020, thank you."

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We can

6 ask, but my guess would be that there's

7 different authorities that run, you know, the

8 airport, and I don't know whether the TSA

9 people would want us to be confused.

10 But we certainly will be engaging in

11 educational efforts through the department as

12 soon as we hopefully get approval for this

13 legislation that will hopefully start to

14 diffuse some of that confusion. And we will

15 certainly be as creative as we can to make

16 sure that New Yorkers are assured that we're

17 doing the best we can to make it as least

18 disruptive for them.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

20 So DMV's primary role is making sure

21 that we have, you know, safe drivers and do

22 whatever we can to keep safe and decrease

23 accidents on our roads. In your testimony

24 you talk about our having very good

234

1 statistics, or statistics getting better.

2 But I was looking up that nationally, 2015

3 was the worst year in a decade for traffic

4 fatalities and traffic accidents. Are we out

5 of the curve, we're just doing better?

6 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: We are.

7 We are on the good side of that curve, I'm

8 happy to announce. Yes, we're -- nationally,

9 they are forecasting anywheres -- I've seen

10 numbers from 6 to 10 percent, depending on

11 where you are and what type of crash you're

12 involved with. But here in New York, our

13 preliminary numbers are not final yet, but it

14 looks like we're going to be between 6 and 7

15 percent down.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: That's terrific for

17 New York.

18 EX. DEP COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah.

19 We're really pleased with that. A lot of

20 hard work has gone into that with all of our

21 partners.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: There's also a study

23 that was released, I think possibly today, by

24 the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. And

235

1 the big finding of their study was that

2 millennials -- they define that as 19 to 24.

3 I'm so far from that age I never know what

4 the definition is, but they are saying 19 to

5 24 -- that a full 88 percent of motorists

6 aged 19 to 24 have committed one of the

7 primary road sins in the last month:

8 violating the speed limit, blowing through

9 red lights, texting.

10 And perhaps most disturbing is that

11 90 percent of these young drivers think that

12 it's okay. So it's both that they're doing

13 it and they think it's fine.

14 So what can we be doing to better

15 educate our millennial and young drivers

16 about the importance of road safety and that,

17 you know, it's great to be a disrupter --

18 that's a term everybody likes to use these

19 days -- but not actually if you're going to

20 end up killing yourself or others?

21 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Agreed.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm curious what you

23 have found to be effective or what more we

24 can be doing.

236

1 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah,

2 agreed. And actually I have those

3 millennials at home that I fight with all the

4 time about being able to put the phone down

5 and no, you cannot multitask.

6 But it's a battle. And certainly one

7 of the things that we're trying to do, and

8 it's -- as I said before, and when it comes

9 to traffic safety and changing behavior, it's

10 not any one thing, it really is a combination

11 of engineering, education and enforcement.

12 But one of the pieces in our traffic

13 safety bill is really to totally disallow the

14 use of the mobile phone for anybody in a

15 vehicle that's under the age of 18. Those

16 are our most vulnerable drivers. They have

17 the least experience out there. And as you

18 aptly pointed out, I think they're the ones

19 that think they can do it all anyways.

20 So that's a piece of it. And we work

21 with all of our traffic safety partners, not

22 only state agencies but law enforcement, as

23 well as some of our not-for-profit groups out

24 there, to try to come up with new and

237

1 innovative ways to address these people.

2 So our communications group at the

3 Department of Motor Vehicles has gotten very

4 active, I would say, with Facebook and

5 Twitter. But I just did a multigenerational

6 meeting, you know, last week that said that's

7 even passe. So I'm not even sure what the

8 new one is yet, but our communications group

9 is there trying to figure out how we tap into

10 that.

11 So it's a good question. We continue

12 to explore it. We keep trying programs that

13 are going to address it, and we'll try to be

14 as vigilant as we can. But we certainly

15 understand the issue.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: So a few years ago

17 there was back and forth about how you were

18 implementing driver's tests. I can't even

19 remember which year it was and which proposal

20 it was, but -- and there was some question

21 about changing the protocols for new-driver

22 training programs.

23 And I'm wondering whether the

24 department is taking a look at the new

238

1 research coming out that how you teach

2 millennials is actually very different than

3 how you taught people above the age of 50,

4 and that there's actually an entire different

5 model of what works in education for

6 millennials versus older people.

7 So I guess the question is, can you

8 explore whether there's better models or more

9 effective models for educating the next

10 generations of drivers coming up to know what

11 the laws are?

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN:

13 Absolutely. I think it's a great point and,

14 as I said, very timely for us because we just

15 had this -- we had a very large management

16 meeting where we had someone come in to speak

17 to us about what is the difference between

18 these generational groups and really what --

19 as you point out, they learn differently,

20 they react differently, they expect different

21 levels of appreciation, you know, certain

22 things mean -- so yes, we are engaging --

23 very timely, we are engaging that and

24 hopefully we'll be making those changes.

239

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

3 We've been joined by Senator Brad

4 Hoylman, who would like to speak.

5 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you. Nice to

6 see you this afternoon.

7 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Hi,

8 Senator.

9 SENATOR HOYLMAN: In my district there

10 have been a number of high-profile cases over

11 the last five years in Manhattan -- and I

12 represent Times Square, Greenwich Village,

13 over to the East side -- involving

14 double-decker sightseeing tourist buses, a

15 number of high-profile crashes. A

16 constituent I recently met with nearly lost

17 his leg after being hit and dragged by a tour

18 bus in Greenwich Village.

19 And I looked into the issue about

20 double-decker sightseeing bus safety and

21 found a troubling loophole that I wanted to

22 share with you in state law that exempts

23 double-decker sightseeing buses in New York

24 City from the safety requirements in both the

240

1 Vehicle and Traffic Law, Article 109A, and

2 Transportation Law, Article 7. I was working

3 wondering if you had any awareness of that

4 loophole.

5 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: I do not,

6 senator. And I was going to say my first

7 inkling was this is really probably something

8 in the DOT province, because of the bus

9 aspect. But we'll certainly take it back and

10 we will consult with DOT, investigate it, and

11 certainly get back to you.

12 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Sure. And just to

13 follow up, the definition of "bus," for the

14 purposes of the special licensing

15 requirements for bus drivers in 19A of the

16 law is drafted in such a way that it doesn't

17 apply to New York City double-decker

18 sightseeing buses due to their exemption from

19 Article 7 of the Transportation Law.

20 So Article 19A requirements don't

21 apply to sightseeing bus operators or the

22 drivers, and that results in a host of

23 troubling implications, including things like

24 securing drivers' employment records,

241

1 requiring drivers to get biennial medical

2 examinations, and other aspects.

3 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Yeah, our

4 normal 19A requirements, sure.

5 We will certainly talk to DOT, we'll

6 take a look at it, and circle back with you.

7 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Great. I'd love to

8 work with you on this issue on how we can

9 close the loophole.

10 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Great.

11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you.

12 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: You're

13 welcome.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

16 much.

17 EX. DEP. COMMISSIONER EGAN: Thank you

18 all. Have a good afternoon.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Appreciate you

20 being here.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Veronica {sic}

22 Hakim, interim executive director,

23 Metropolitan Transportation Authority;

24 Robert Foran, chief financial officer;

242

1 Craig Stewart, senior director, capital

2 programs.

3 Good afternoon.

4 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Good

5 afternoon.

6 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Welcome. I messed

7 up your name a little there, I think.

8 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I knew

9 you were calling me.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: I was close.

11 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Shall I

12 begin?

13 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, go ahead.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes, you can begin.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

16 you.

17 Good afternoon, Senator Young,

18 Assemblyman Farrell, and other members of the

19 Senate and the Assembly. Thank you for your

20 interest in the MTA's finances and for being

21 here today. I am Veronique Hakim. I am the

22 interim executive director of the

23 Metropolitan Transportation Authority. And

24 since this is Day 15 of my tenure as such,

243

1 I've asked Bob Foran, our CFO, and Craig

2 Stewart, our senior director of capital

3 programs, to join me in answering questions.

4 First, I'm gratified to note that the

5 Governor's Executive Budget again proposes a

6 year-over-year increase in state assistance,

7 providing nearly $4.5 billion. In the past

8 five Executive Budgets, state operating aid

9 to the MTA has increased by a total of

10 $450 million. The budget also continues to

11 reflect the enacted commitment of

12 $8.3 billion in state resources for the MTA's

13 2015-'19 capital program, with a new

14 $1.5 billion appropriation.

15 I expect that the coming year will be

16 both a challenging and an exciting one for

17 the MTA. Challenging because we are dealing

18 with the heaviest ridership we have

19 experienced since just after World War 2.

20 Exciting because we have plans to continue

21 successful efforts in four areas -- first, to

22 do everything necessary to assure safety as

23 our first priority; second, to keep our

24 operating costs down; third, to improve the

244

1 daily experience of our 8.5 million daily

2 customers; and fourth, to renew, enhance and

3 expand the system through our capital

4 program.

5 In the past seven years, we have cut

6 $1.6 billion out of our recurring annual

7 operating costs. We will continue that

8 effort and by next year increase those annual

9 savings to $1.8 billion. Like any business,

10 some elements of our budget will grow. But

11 this cost-cutting rigor has enabled us to

12 keep increases in our fares and tolls to a

13 minimum. The 2 percent per year increases

14 that will take effect in March are the

15 smallest in the past eight years, and less

16 than the projected rate of inflation.

17 And I also believe this cost

18 management, and our financial transparency,

19 are essential to the MTA's credibility among

20 its farepayers, taxpayers, and public

21 policymakers like yourselves. Our customers

22 are your constituents, and the service we

23 provide is absolutely essential. So we aim

24 to be the best stewards of public and

245

1 farepayer funds that we can possibly be.

2 Surely the MTA's biggest news of 2016

3 came when we opened service on the Second

4 Avenue Subway. New Second Avenue riders

5 frequently tell us that the line has changed

6 their lives. And in ways both large and

7 small, and oftentimes invisible to riders, we

8 will be working toward changing more riders'

9 lives in the coming year, and we'll do so in

10 several ways: By advancing important

11 projects, including those funded by the

12 2015-'19 capital program; by improving the

13 quality of our service; by continuing to

14 improve our business practices; and by

15 tackling the everyday work of keeping our

16 infrastructure, including those 100-year-old

17 portions of our subway system, in a state of

18 good repair so as to ensure safe and reliable

19 service.

20 I'd like to take a minute to list some

21 select major projects because they're

22 important and because we're making rapid

23 progress on them.

24 In the area of safety, we recently

246

1 launched the nation's first sleep apnea

2 screening program for our employees upon whom

3 the safety of our customers depends. This

4 will include 20,000 of them -- our subway and

5 railroad operators, conductors, bus drivers

6 and others. Those diagnosed will be required

7 to undergo and verify that they are receiving

8 treatment. This is in the best interest of

9 our riders and our employees, because sleep

10 apnea can affect quality of their lives.

11 The Long Island Railroad and

12 Metro-North Railroad had record ridership

13 last year. We no longer refer to these

14 systems as "commuter railroads" -- they have

15 become too integral to their service areas,

16 with new employment centers emerging and new

17 travel patterns both for work and leisure.

18 Instead, we are expanding and evolving their

19 services to meet growing needs.

20 For example, Metro-North and Long

21 Island riders now have a new e-TIX mobile

22 ticketing app that has taken us from

23 dependence on a ticket machine to a

24 user-friendly, anywhere/anytime way to

247

1 purchase tickets. Already, more than 280,000

2 e-TIX accounts have been opened.

3 Another user-friendly initiative is

4 our accelerated effort to install cashless

5 tolling at the MTA's bridges and tunnels. In

6 little more than a year, we will have gone

7 from one open road tolling pilot project to

8 cashless tolling at all nine of our

9 facilities to be completed this fall.

10 Meanwhile, new, more aggressive enforcement

11 is identifying violators, and penalties are

12 discouraging drivers from trying to avoid

13 paying tolls.

14 Just weeks ago, we opened a new Staten

15 Island Railway station at Arthur Kill. That

16 was the first new station to be opened on

17 that system in more than 20 years.

18 Modernizing the Long Island Railroad

19 facilities at Penn Station, Metro-North

20 access to Penn Station, with four new

21 stations in the Bronx, the complete

22 renovation of dozens of stations across the

23 subway and railroad systems, and many more

24 projects -- even the next phase of Second

248

1 Avenue -- are moving forward. So too is the

2 introduction of a fare payment system to

3 replace the MetroCard beginning next year,

4 two years ahead of schedule. And finally,

5 the Second Avenue line will continue to

6 reduce crowding and delays on the Lexington

7 Avenue line, very important.

8 All of these initiatives and their

9 timetables reflect the change that

10 Governor Cuomo has advocated in how the MTA

11 does business. And they also reflect the

12 support you have given us in our capital

13 programs. So I thank you for that support

14 and for your attention this afternoon, and

15 we're happy to answer your questions.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

17 much.

18 Assemblyman Dinowitz, chair.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay, thank

20 you. Good afternoon.

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Good

22 afternoon.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Good to see you

24 again.

249

1 I have a whole bunch of questions, so I'll try

2 to make them short.

3 You mentioned Penn Station access, and

4 I think that is very exciting. It's

5 certainly going to be transformative for

6 parts of the Bronx, with the Co-Op City,

7 Morris Park, Parkchester, and Hunts Point

8 stations. One of the concerns I have is

9 maybe a little longer term, and that is Penn

10 Station access for the Hudson Line, which

11 includes a station in Riverdale plus

12 Westchester County. Do you see that being on

13 the horizon?

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I think

15 the first thing that's on our horizon is the

16 scope of the Penn Station Access Project as

17 we've currently defined it in the Bronx. In

18 terms of other capacity improvements and

19 other enhancements, that is a function of

20 what our capital program funding would be

21 able to provide.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: As you know,

23 the Governor is proposing to cut $65 million

24 from the annual General Fund transfer that is

250

1 used to make up for the loss caused by

2 exemptions from the mobility tax. And

3 although I'm sure one could say, well, there

4 might be other sources of revenue that may go

5 up this year, sometimes they can also go

6 down. Any way you slice it, we're losing

7 $65 million, at least as proposed by

8 Governor Cuomo.

9 Would you anticipate that this loss of

10 $65 million would result in any service cuts?

11 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: No, I

12 would not. The overall operating assistance

13 has actually increased by $30 million. Our

14 financial plan, upon which the modest toll

15 and fare increase that I referred to was

16 based on, is certainly able to maintain

17 itself, based on this budget, without any

18 further service cuts or fare or toll

19 increases.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Well, that's

21 great. But that would also mean, then, that

22 if we actually got the $65 million, we would

23 get service enhancements. No?

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We do

251

1 everything that we can to provide the level

2 of service that's required to meet the demand

3 of our riders, to also -- and this is key --

4 to keep those operating costs down and be as

5 efficient as possible. So as I mentioned,

6 we've taken out $1.6 billion and look to

7 increase those efficiencies up to 1.8 over

8 the next two years.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: It's my

10 understanding that the November financial

11 plan includes over a half a billion dollars

12 in unidentified savings over the plan period.

13 How is that going to be achieved?

14 MTA CFO FORAN: That is over the plan

15 period. We have a very strategic approach in

16 place. It's consolidations of procurement,

17 it's a consolidation of IT, it's

18 consolidation of treasury functions. That

19 we're trying to take five disparate groups,

20 five silos from the past that each had their

21 own departments, and bring them together to

22 try to operate more efficiently.

23 So that is savings that you have over

24 the four-year period. However, if we achieve

252

1 the savings targets for next year, that

2 reduces those costs for the next four years.

3 If we achieve the target for the second year,

4 that achieves savings for the next three

5 years. So it really isn't that large of an

6 amount.

7 The target that we will have going out

8 into 2020 is still well over $200 million,

9 but that is roughly just a little over

10 1 percent of our budget expected at that

11 time. And so I think it's manageable, and I

12 think we can approach it and do it in an

13 efficient way.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Almost like a

15 rounding error, huh?

16 Now, the MTA was able to find

17 $566 million in debt service savings. Is

18 that savings going to be available to

19 partially restore the $2.5 billion cut in the

20 original five-year plan? Because the

21 original five-year plan was -- hopefully

22 would have been greater than it turned out to

23 be.

24 MTA CFO FORAN: What we did is when we

253

1 went through and saw debt service savings, we

2 decided to bank them, because we weren't sure

3 what the future capital programs would be.

4 So as of this point in time, we have

5 identified $566 million that we are saying is

6 committed to capital during the plan period,

7 and it will still be up to the board to make

8 a decision on how to utilize those funds for

9 the best of the region.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: When does the

11 MTA expect to submit a capital plan amendment

12 based on that to the CPRB so that all this

13 money could be spent properly?

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So we

15 have a process that I'm sure you're familiar

16 with in terms of working at submitting

17 amendments on our capital program. It's

18 something that we've done already four times

19 in this plan period -- I think in the last

20 plan period, excuse me.

21 But the process requires us to first

22 make some recommendations to our board, the

23 board would review and approve them, and then

24 we would be back to submit that proposed

254

1 amendment to the CPRB. Timing for that has

2 not been finalized.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: One of the

4 issues you had mentioned was the open

5 tolling. The bridge that's in my

6 neighborhood, the Henry Hudson Bridge,

7 already has that. I happen to think it's

8 good. Not everybody loves it, but I guess

9 there are enforcement issues.

10 Do you have any idea of how much

11 revenue has been lost by people who haven't

12 paid -- you know, if they don't have an

13 E-ZPass, they get a bill mailed to them. Is

14 there any record or indication as to how much

15 revenue has been lost by -- as a result of

16 that?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So the

18 Henry Hudson, as you're noting, is the one

19 crossing that we've had the most experience

20 with, because it's been open cashless tolling

21 almost for a year.

22 We actually haven't lost any revenue

23 there. The E-ZPass rate of people who travel

24 using E-ZPass is very high, and that's true

255

1 systemwide. And between the sending out a

2 violation notice and receiving the violation

3 together with an applicable fine, we've

4 covered all of our costs. So that has turned

5 out to be an indicator of what we hope will

6 be very promising going forward.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: I know that

8 you're going to be attempting to try to take

9 measures to increase enforcement of the

10 tolls.

11 I should note that in my own

12 community, we've seen not only on the road,

13 but in the local streets, troopers and TBTA

14 police, whose cars look very much like the

15 state troopers'. Would you know if their

16 extraordinary presence in the neighborhood is

17 related to that? Because I must tell you

18 that people are very put off by it. You

19 know, if people think they're getting more

20 police presence in order to reduce crime,

21 they're happy. But if they think it's

22 because they're going to get a ticket for a

23 broken taillight, not so happy.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The law

256

1 enforcement that we have in place, whether

2 it's working with State Police or Bridges and

3 Tunnels officers, they're at what, well, I'll

4 continue to refer to as toll plazas. And

5 that's where the enforcement takes place.

6 If you've seen a greater presence in

7 local streets, that's probably them coming

8 and going. They're not there to do any kind

9 of enforcement in the local jurisdictions

10 themselves.

11 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I mean,

12 it just seemed odd that they were -- they've

13 been seen all over the place, not just

14 immediate -- in close proximity to the

15 highway, but in the neighborhood. And

16 it's -- it's something which hasn't happened

17 in the past.

18 Now, recently there was a big story in

19 the Times regarding deterioration in service.

20 And you've claimed, and I would imagine it's

21 largely true, that overcrowding is the main

22 driver of subway delays. There's been an

23 extreme increase in the number of trips

24 taken. Why have the delays, though, in your

257

1 opinion, increased by so much in the past

2 couple of years? Because it would seem to

3 outstrip the increase in ridership.

4 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So the

5 issue of improving service is a challenging

6 one. You know, we have 6 million riders in

7 the subway system a day; we make 8,000 trips

8 every day; we travel through 472 stations.

9 It is a very large system, and it is a very

10 old system in many parts.

11 Delays come about for two basic

12 categories of things, either because of

13 specific incident -- a signal malfunction, a

14 sick customer, a water main break -- or an

15 operational constraint or an operational

16 disruption. Those are the things that we

17 have to really try to manage as effectively

18 as possible.

19 What can we do about that? We can

20 look at how we can make people move

21 effectively on a platform, on and off a

22 train. If you've been on the subway system,

23 you know that the amount of time a subway car

24 spends at a platform impacts the ability for

258

1 it to move quickly and efficiently up and

2 down the line. So we've installed a new type

3 of customer service person; we refer to them

4 as platform controllers. Currently we use

5 them in certain key locations in the a.m., in

6 the morning rush hour. We're increasing the

7 number of those agents, and we're increasing

8 including them in the afternoon rush hours as

9 well. We want to add more people to help

10 effectively manage the platforms. That's

11 step one.

12 Step two, there are at Grand Central,

13 as an example, "Don't Block the Box" boxes on

14 the platforms. They're there for a purpose,

15 to signal to people where the doors are that

16 are going to be opening, and to encourage our

17 customers to allow people to step aside, let

18 people come out, and then come in.

19 We also have to look at the

20 right-of-way and what we can do to increase

21 inspections. So we're increasing inspections

22 on our right-of-ways so that we can catch

23 conditions before they become a problem.

24 We've seen about an 8 percent reduction in

259

1 incidents because of that, the fact that we

2 are actually aggressively managing the

3 right-of-way. We're using our track geometry

4 car technology every single day to make sure

5 that our tracks are as safe and in as good

6 repair as possible.

7 We have also dispatched crews to known

8 problem locations so that we have people on

9 standby who can quickly try to fix a problem,

10 whether it's a signal or a power issue, to

11 try to address that as fast as possible.

12 And in addition, we want to watch what

13 our customers experience is. So our on-time

14 performance -- and by the way, the news

15 that's reporting the numbers? Those are our

16 numbers. We're very transparent with what

17 our service levels are. Every month we

18 measure ourselves and we publish those

19 numbers for the public.

20 You know, I'll take one example of the

21 No. 5 Line, which has been noted as one of

22 our worst performing lines, and it's true.

23 It's 25 miles long, it travels from Dyre

24 Avenue in the Bronx all the way down to

260

1 Flatbush in Brooklyn. The travel time, end

2 to end, is 95 minutes. Now, if we miss that

3 by five minutes, we ding ourselves as not

4 having met our on-time performance objective

5 there.

6 But the majority of our riders don't

7 ride the 5 from the Bronx all the way to

8 Flatbush in Brooklyn. The majority of our

9 riders ride the 5 for five-mile segments. So

10 what we really want to do is measure the

11 customer's experience on the platform, and

12 that measurement we call wait assessment,

13 which measures the reliability of a train

14 coming when we said it was going to come.

15 So on the 5, at Grand Central, in

16 the a.m. rush hour, we're supposed to provide

17 27 trains per hour running through there. On

18 average, we provide a little over 25 trains

19 per hour. So from a customer's perspective,

20 when they hit the platform, they have an

21 expectation that a train is going to arrive,

22 and it generally does arrive.

23 So again, we need to improve our

24 service, but there are other things that we

261

1 also need to improve. How we communicate

2 with our customers about their expectations:

3 Rolling out more countdown clocks, a huge

4 success on the numbered lines -- we need to

5 finish rolling them out on the lettered

6 lines -- and communicating using devices, the

7 wifi technology that we've just rolled out

8 systemwide. All of this will contribute to

9 giving our customers more information about

10 the level of service they can expect.

11 But I appreciate the question, and am

12 fully committed to working on improving our

13 customer service.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Good. I know

15 my time is kind of up, but I banked a few

16 minutes from this morning. So I have two

17 very quick questions regarding bus service,

18 which as you know is very important to the

19 non-Manhattan boroughs.

20 One, transit signal priority can help

21 buses move more quickly by turning the light

22 green when the bus approaches. DOT, City

23 DOT, says that they've installed the

24 necessary equipment but that the buses aren't

262

1 ready. Do you have any idea how quickly we

2 might expect that to happen?

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Traffic

4 signal prioritization, and you point out

5 correctly, is something we do in conjunction

6 with the City, with DOT.

7 We are ready, willing and able to

8 further advance traffic signal

9 prioritization. We think that it is

10 important. I don't have a time frame for

11 that, sir, but we'll get back to you on that.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay. And

13 really very last, all-door boarding of

14 buses, is that something that we can -- I

15 think there's some technological issues

16 involved, but is that something we can expect

17 in the near future to expedite bus stops?

18 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Where we

19 currently have deployed all-door boarding is

20 on the SBS lines, where we're providing

21 select bus service on 13 routes. And we have

22 just announced plans to expand that to two

23 more routes.

24 The issue of rear-door boarding on a

263

1 regular local bus presents some concerns

2 around fare evasion, so we would have to take

3 a look at that.

4 On the SBS routes, we have the benefit

5 of having an Eagle Team who enforce fare

6 collection for us.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Okay, thank you

8 very much.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

10 you.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

12 Senator?

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

14 Director, for taking on this new challenge,

15 and I wish you well.

16 I will be asking some questions, but

17 I'll defer at this time to my colleague

18 Senator Elaine Phillips, who has some

19 questions.

20 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Thank you, Senator.

21 And thank you for being here today,

22 you and your team.

23 So as you know, I represent the

24 7th Senate District, the Main Line, which

264

1 carries 40 percent of Long Island Railroad's

2 daily commuters. It runs right through the

3 heart of my district. I represent virtually

4 every one of those communities that will be

5 impacted by the third track. Without a

6 doubt, this project promises to be one of the

7 most ambitious, costly, and potentially

8 disruptive to the affected communities in the

9 MTA's history, probably since the line was

10 originally laid.

11 Unlike other large-scale construction

12 projects -- the Tappan Zee Bridge comes to

13 mind -- this construction is not taking place

14 over- or underwater, it truly is taking place

15 in the backyards of many of the residents on

16 Long Island. Years of disruption right in

17 the core of central business districts are

18 deeply concerning to me. And we still don't

19 know what we don't know about unanticipated

20 costs to local communities, construction

21 delays, impacts on businesses and the

22 environment, and so much more.

23 The residents of these communities, as

24 you know, deserve to have their questions

265

1 answered and their concerns addressed. I

2 want to compliment the efforts that the MTA

3 has made to engage the affected communities.

4 I know that your agency has conducted

5 countless meetings to gather input and

6 explain the project, in particular to

7 residents and to the village officials along

8 the Main Line corridor.

9 But the work isn't done. There remain

10 many questions to be answered, and it is my

11 job as the representative of these

12 communities, to make sure that their concerns

13 are addressed. So I have numerous questions.

14 First, on funding. I understand that

15 the MTA plans to pay for this project through

16 its capital fund. But are there any funds in

17 the Executive's budget or in the MTA's

18 operating budget that are to be expended on

19 the project, such as for preliminary work?

20 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The

21 existing MTA capital program, that '15 to '19

22 program, got us started on third track. And

23 so it was the vehicle by which we were able

24 to start the environmental review process,

266

1 put preliminary design-build documents

2 together, and as you noted, really begin a

3 very intensive community outreach and

4 interaction process.

5 In order to fully fund the third track

6 program, that will be the subject of a future

7 capital program amendment, and we'll be back.

8 We're in the midst of a procurement right now

9 for that design-build team, whoever that

10 design-build team will be. And in working

11 through the negotiations with that team, and

12 their approach to how they're going to do the

13 work and their approach to how they're going

14 to meet all of the commitments that we're

15 making about minimizing community impacts,

16 not taking any residential properties,

17 continuing that level of community outreach

18 and support, making sure that vehicles are

19 not interfering with the community's

20 transportation network -- those are all going

21 to be part of this contracting process.

22 And I will say that as we get further

23 down this path and we have more information

24 about how the project will be built, we're

267

1 fully committed to maintaining the level of

2 community information and outreach that we've

3 done up till now. So we will be out there,

4 we will be answering your questions and your

5 constituents' questions, absolutely.

6 SENATOR PHILLIPS: We're at a budget

7 hearing, so let me get to the obvious

8 question. What is the projected cost of the

9 project? I'm concerned, because as it was

10 originally proposed, it was estimated to cost

11 $1 billion in a very short period of time.

12 That estimate has doubled to $2 billion.

13 Some of that added cost, I understand, can be

14 attributed to the added amenities, like

15 station improvements and the like, in the

16 latest DEIS. But that's still a significant

17 increase before shovels are really even in

18 the ground.

19 We've also seen how unanticipated

20 problems and delays can lead to ballooning

21 costs. Is there a detailed accounting of the

22 costs, as well as future costs for ongoing

23 maintenance of the new infrastructure? Also,

24 what can you tell us about the MTA's effort

268

1 to identify federal funding?

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So the --

3 you noted correctly the overall current

4 budget is about $2 billion. There are very

5 detailed estimates that build up to that

6 number. Because we are currently in the

7 procurement of what will be a very large

8 design-build contract, I hesitate to go

9 farther in terms of the details of what the

10 project estimates are, except to say that it

11 will be part and will be required to be part

12 of a further capital program amendment.

13 SENATOR PHILLIPS: And federal

14 funding?

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't

16 think that we're using federal funds in this

17 project.

18 MTA CFO FORAN: No. No, we're not.

19 We're not using federal dollars for this

20 project.

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

22 you.

23 SENATOR PHILLIPS: And what about the

24 costs that are incurred by local governments,

269

1 such as traffic mitigation, fire, police,

2 et cetera? Is the MTA making provisions for

3 these costs to the local communities? And

4 has there been consideration or will there be

5 consideration about bonding to protect the

6 properties of residents and local

7 governments?

8 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The first

9 part of your question, in terms of supporting

10 costs associated with what I will call

11 directly related to the project, whether you

12 need additional policing or some additional

13 law enforcement, that's something that on a

14 project-by-project basis we take a look at.

15 In terms of the second part, bonding

16 -- I'm sorry, I missed the second part of the

17 question.

18 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Inevitably, we've

19 all been through projects where property

20 values can be impacted negatively in some

21 way. I guess the communities are asking,

22 what happens when we have to put police out

23 there? You know, it's the Nassau County

24 police force. Or what happens when a road

270

1 has to be closed down because a major piece

2 of construction is coming in? What happens

3 if something falls onto one of my trees in my

4 backyard and a branch breaks? How am I

5 going -- you know, how is the community

6 that's going to be affected impacted?

7 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

8 you. We -- if we break it, we have to fix

9 it. We have to pay for it. If we create a

10 situation that requires additional local

11 support costs, that would be something that

12 would be funneled through the project.

13 We try to plan our work in a way so as

14 to minimize those impacts, and have been out

15 talking to the affected communities about how

16 to do that. As we get further through this

17 process and the final selection is made on

18 the design-build team and we have their

19 construction plans, we'll be back out to the

20 community to talk about what those plans are

21 and make sure that we've covered every

22 eventuality.

23 SENATOR PHILLIPS: I would -- we can

24 share with you that there are examples where

271

1 funds can be set aside -- you know, it comes

2 to my mind like FEMA, you expend money on a

3 local government for FEMA-related expenses,

4 then there's criteria, you submit it, and you

5 get reimbursed. Because I think there's

6 tremendous concern.

7 On property values, we know that a

8 project of this scope will have an impact on

9 property values, and removal of several

10 commercial properties from the tax rolls will

11 impact assessed values and property tax bills

12 in a number of areas. And in fact I believe

13 in one of the communities that have submitted

14 their comments, they're estimating that in

15 their district alone, $400,000 on an

16 annualized basis.

17 So what is the MTA proposing to do for

18 those homeowners and landowners who will have

19 to pick up the slack in the form of higher

20 tax bills because these commercial properties

21 are coming off the tax roll?

22 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: You know,

23 Senator, I'm going to defer and come back to

24 you on that, because I'm just trying to get

272

1 my hands around this very large project, as

2 you've aptly noted.

3 SENATOR PHILLIPS: On SEQR, I've had

4 the opportunity to review the scoping

5 documents and DEIS. I've also seen comments

6 from the communities, from Westbury to Floral

7 Park, concerning details of the project that

8 are not addressed in the document, from a

9 detailed timeline to traffic, visual and

10 environmental impacts of the project in

11 construction.

12 As you know, the requirements of SEQR

13 are very detailed and specific. How

14 confident are you that your analysis meets

15 the requirements that are set in law for

16 planning and mitigation?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I think

18 we're very confident in the process that

19 we've undertaken, very robust. We have some

20 national experts working with us through the

21 environmental review process, including

22 making commitments through that process about

23 how we are going to mitigate construction and

24 project impacts.

273

1 And I'm a very big believer in that

2 phase of a big project, because I think it

3 gives everybody sort of an eyes-wide-open

4 review of what do we have to do and what are

5 the concerns of the communities that we're

6 crossing.

7 SENATOR PHILLIPS: On rail

8 crossings -- and I'm getting close to being

9 done -- it's clear that there is

10 near-unanimous agreement on the need to

11 eliminate grade crossings in these

12 communities, from local residents to the

13 agency to the Governor. I personally have

14 waited in traffic for over 10 minutes.

15 There's no doubt that these delays are

16 more than an inconvenience and affect the

17 economies of the downtown business districts.

18 But couldn't we eliminate these crossings at

19 a far lower cost and improve the safety

20 without the significant additional expense

21 and delay of adding a third track. Has the

22 analysis been done? And if it has been done,

23 has it been shared with the community or with

24 the public? And if not, why not?

274

1 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Let me

2 start with what I know. What I know is that

3 the third track project will eliminate seven

4 grade crossings, at-grade crossings, which

5 immediately infers an additional level of

6 safety in those communities. That's a very

7 good thing. Grade-crossing safety is

8 something that we all -- and you join us in

9 this -- you know, take very, very seriously.

10 And being able to eliminate a grade crossing

11 is an important element and an important part

12 of the third track project.

13 Whether there are alternatives to

14 that, I don't know. And what was studied

15 before, I don't yet know. But we will

16 certainly look into that and provide that

17 information to you.

18 SENATOR PHILLIPS: And I think the

19 community would like to see that --

20 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

21 Certainly.

22 SENATOR PHILLIPS: -- so you know what

23 the cost ...

24 So on freight, residents of a number

275

1 of communities have raised concerns about

2 increased freight traffic, including expanded

3 use of the line for household trash and even

4 hazardous waste. Your DEIS projects a

5 minimal increase in freight traffic on the

6 expanded line. Is that realistic, especially

7 considering the fact that we are closing

8 landfills on the East End of Long Island?

9 And I'd like to hear what is the

10 status of your contract with the Long Island

11 railroad's freight carrier, which was the

12 subject of a very concerning safety report by

13 federal regulators last year. I think in

14 November we found out an accident rate that

15 was three times higher than other freight

16 carriers.

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

18 Ultimately what comes out through the

19 environmental impact statement in terms of

20 freight volume expectations, those are things

21 that we absolutely stand behind and think

22 that they're accurate.

23 The New York & Atlantic freight

24 provider -- that we've had some issues with,

276

1 and the community has had some issues with,

2 and reports were recently issued -- you know,

3 that's an option that we have to take a hard

4 look at.

5 And I've heard just recently, having

6 just come on board on the Long Island front,

7 some very serious concerns about the way they

8 run their operation. I know they've changed

9 their management, I know that they've said

10 that they're making improvements and they're

11 going to commit that freight the way they're

12 supposed to run it, but it's an area that I'm

13 going to be looking into.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Phillips, I

15 know this has the potential to be very

16 devastating to your local communities, and

17 it's a very, very important issue. So what I

18 will do is let the other members speak who

19 wanted to speak, and then I will allow you to

20 come back to ask more questions.

21 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Thank you. Thank

22 you very much.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

24 Let's see, I think I want to ask some

277

1 questions and see how things are going. It's

2 been a while.

3 Let's see. I have three things I want

4 to talk to you about. One of them has to do

5 with the IRT-Independent on 168th Street, and

6 the other one I'd like to hear a little about

7 is the elimination of tollbooths, especially

8 the one that goes to the Bronx, the Henry

9 Hudson. And I would like to tell you some

10 things that I think you've done very good.

11 Over the years, we used to have a very

12 not-good bus terminal directly in back of my

13 office, and they were out in the street and

14 they were everywhere. People were always

15 complaining to me about it and everything

16 else. And you built a new building there,

17 the Mother Hale bus terminal, and it is

18 fantastic. I don't even know it is a bus

19 terminal. They sneak them in at night so you

20 don't see them --

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: It's a

22 bus garage, yes.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: -- and they sneak

24 them out. The good old days of them blocking

278

1 up the streets, taking all the parking

2 spaces, has gone. They have done a fantastic

3 job there.

4 But we then have the IRT and the

5 Independent on 168th. That station is the

6 station I used to go to school through. I

7 went to George Washington High School, and

8 I'd walk there, take the elevators, and go

9 down and go up to 191st Street, where I would

10 then take the elevators there and go up.

11 And in the years that I was there,

12 once or twice the elevators went out. I

13 never had all four of the elevators go. I

14 never lost it continuous. We -- once in a

15 while we'd have to walk, they'd make us walk

16 up, because we were young people, and there

17 was only one of the four elevators running.

18 But we never went without it.

19 Now you've had it -- in the last three

20 weeks, I think, it's gone out twice, all four

21 of them. And you also lost the -- what I

22 would call the street elevator, you lost that

23 once, which creates a major problem that you

24 had to stop people from getting off on the

279

1 station because they couldn't get on an

2 elevator and they couldn't walk those stairs.

3 If they're as bad as I remember them when I

4 was a kid, I know they wouldn't walk up those

5 stairs.

6 So I'd like to know, what are you

7 going to do to make sure that doesn't happen

8 again? And while you're doing that, tell me

9 what is going on in terms of work in that

10 location. Because up on the street, there

11 has been a fence next to the statue, and I

12 have always thought it was work you were

13 doing to put another elevator in or not. My

14 people went there on Monday, and they said

15 no, it's not that, it's just a pile of stuff.

16 And we couldn't see what that is.

17 So I don't know if you know that, if

18 someone could tell us what that is. And what

19 are you going to do so that doesn't happen

20 again?

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The

22 elevators at 168th Street need to be

23 replaced. They -- what we are doing in the

24 short term is seeing how to accelerate that

280

1 replacement. And so one of the contracting

2 methods that we're looking at is can we

3 include incentives for early completion in a

4 contract to replace those elevators, how can

5 we get the best possible contractor to work

6 as fast as possible replacing those

7 elevators.

8 In the very short term, though, what

9 we are doing is putting a SWAT team of

10 elevator maintainers there, because if

11 something happens, we want to have people on

12 the ground to be able to address those issues

13 as quickly as possible.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: They're there now.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Now, for

16 our rush-hour service, to make sure that we

17 can maintain service there.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Okay.

19 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Because

20 as you noted correctly, if we can't use those

21 elevators -- if one is out, that's one thing.

22 But if all four are out, that's just -- it's

23 an impossible, untenable situation for our

24 customers.

281

1 In terms of the work around the

2 station, I'm familiar with that. So we'll

3 look into that. And if we need to clean it

4 up, we'll need to clean it up.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: There's a statue up

6 there, it's right in there, it's an area.

7 And I've always thought it's your work there.

8 It's been a while.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I'll look

10 to see if that scaffolding is ours or not.

11 And then you asked also about cashless

12 tolling on the Henry Hudson --

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: No, I didn't finish

14 this one yet.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Oh, I'm

16 sorry.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: So there's one

18 other problem. When some of the elected

19 officials tried to get ahold of you, you were

20 not able -- you were not talking to them or

21 they were not hearing you or whatever it is.

22 I'd like to hear if you can give me a

23 commitment to come to a meeting at the 168th

24 Street location to tell people what's

282

1 happening and where you are at this point.

2 And is there -- and be able to tell us when

3 you think it will begin work, and when will

4 it end.

5 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I'm

6 unaware of anybody who tried to get in touch

7 with me that I wasn't able to speak to,

8 but --

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: I'll blame MTA.

10 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: But I

11 will absolutely agree that we will come up

12 and update the community on the 168th Street

13 station and those elevators.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: All right, we can

15 put something there. All right.

16 Yes, now we can go and talk about the

17 tollbooth.

18 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So this

19 is a very exciting time in terms of the

20 bridges and tunnel world that we live in.

21 Henry Hudson was the first pilot by which we

22 took down the tollbooths and the toll plazas

23 and the swinging arms and were able to

24 provide safe and environmentally friendly

283

1 passage through the -- what was the toll

2 plaza, through the tolling of E-ZPass tags as

3 well as cameras that read license plates.

4 And by reading those license plates,

5 we're able to then send people who don't have

6 an E-ZPass -- and 90 percent of the people

7 who travel that crossing do -- a bill for

8 their tolls.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: I'm the 10 percent.

10 And I live two blocks away from it, actually,

11 and I -- the only question is, the Thruway

12 put in a better, I think, program than you

13 did. They allow me to go up there and get a

14 turn, or I can go through it by using

15 E-ZPass. I don't like E-ZPass, I'm one of

16 those people, old-fashioned people. So I

17 don't like the E-ZPass. And I just

18 understand why you don't have some mechanism

19 for grinchy old people like me to have a way

20 to do that, instead of getting the mail. The

21 mail doesn't bother me, I do it and I get it

22 and blah, blah, blah.

23 But I just wondered -- and the other

24 question, and I guess it becomes part of like

284

1 the road, that highway becomes like the

2 highway, because nobody will be able to stand

3 up there. One of the things that the

4 tollbooths did is it gave you an ability, if

5 something went wrong, to talk to somebody. I

6 guess now that you're going through --

7 because I go through it now with the overhead

8 lights, and it doesn't seem -- you know, I

9 would be afraid to have anybody get out of

10 there, because the cars move very quickly

11 through that now.

12 But as I said, the Thruway had a

13 program where you can pick which lane you go

14 to. And I'm surprised that they didn't do

15 something like that, because there's many

16 people from all over the world who go through

17 that thing. It'd be interesting to see the

18 amount of letters you have to send to China

19 or Japan or somewhere.

20 So anyway, that's just my position on

21 that. Let's see if I got everything in here

22 I'm supposed to do. Yes, yes, yes.

23 All right, thank you.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

285

1 you.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

3 much.

4 Next?

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

6 Mr. Chairman.

7 I do have some questions. So first I

8 wanted to ask a little bit more about the

9 capital program, because I know Assemblyman

10 Dinowitz touched on it. But this year's

11 Executive Budget includes a $1.5 billion

12 appropriation in support of the state's

13 $8.3 billion commitment to the MTA, which was

14 part of the capital program, as you know, a

15 long-term commitment over five years. And

16 there was a billion that was included in the

17 MTA's 2015-2019 capital program in last

18 year's budget, in the 2016 enacted budget.

19 But the state hasn't specified on how

20 it will fund the additional $7.3 billion

21 commitment to the MTA capital program. I

22 still didn't hear really what the answer to

23 that is. You're talking about future capital

24 programs, things like that. But how will the

286

1 state meet our commitment to the MTA? What's

2 the plan?

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So let me

4 start off with a little bit of a historical

5 perspective. While I'm very new to this

6 position, I actually spent nearly 24 years

7 working in capital construction for the

8 New York City Transit and the expansion

9 programs. And I've been around the MTA's

10 capital program through various

11 administrations. And every administration

12 has made its financial commitment when the

13 MTA needed the money, and I think that's

14 going to happen here also.

15 So we currently have projects well

16 underway in the '15-'19 program. We are

17 advancing our capital program and are not

18 slowing anything down. And to the extent

19 that tranches of money will be made available

20 by the state as that money is needed, I'm

21 fully confident in the MTA's ability to

22 receive that level of funding.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: But there's no

24 specific plan.

287

1 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: This year

2 I think there is a specific plan.

3 MTA CFO FORAN: Yeah, we have been --

4 if you look at the financing schedule and the

5 capital financing plan, I believe they have

6 $683 million in there that is to fulfill

7 obligations for the '10-'14 capital program,

8 and also there's the first installment for

9 the '15-'19 capital program.

10 Our kind of agreement when we were

11 putting the capital program together was that

12 we would be using our monies -- our bond

13 proceeds, our pay-as-you-go capital, certain

14 asset sales -- first, to advance these

15 projects. And then as we needed the funds,

16 the state would make funds available.

17 We're really looking now that those

18 funds won't be necessary probably until the

19 '19 to '20 period. So there's time for the

20 Executive and the Legislature to get together

21 and decide what is the means they would fund.

22 But what we did ask and what the

23 response has been is we said if we do need

24 money, show us good faith by appropriating

288

1 early so that the monies will be

2 appropriated. So in '16, the state

3 appropriated the billion dollars that was

4 early on in the '15-'19 capital program.

5 Then it was another 1.9 billion that was done

6 in state fiscal year '17. And in the

7 Executive Budget this year, it's another

8 $1.5 billion.

9 So we'll have appropriated roughly

10 $3.4 billion dollars available to us. So as

11 we need funds in that future date, and the

12 funds are then identified, they'll be able to

13 be given to us.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So will you have to

15 increase fares and tolls?

16 MTA CFO FORAN: No. What we are

17 projecting is what we've built into our plan,

18 biennial fare and toll increases, trying to

19 keep it at the rate of inflation.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Now, it's my

21 understanding that with the capital plan you

22 will need 950 new subway cars and 1400 buses,

23 is that true?

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We're

289

1 actually buying, in the '15-'19 program, over

2 a thousand new subway cars, over a thousand

3 buses, as well as new railroad rolling stock.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And what is the MTA

5 doing to make sure that our manufacturers and

6 suppliers in New York State are able to

7 benefit from those new buses and those new

8 subway cars?

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We have

10 subway cars in construction right now that

11 will be delivered out of a plant in New York

12 State in Plattsburgh by the Bombardier

13 car-building team. The Nova Bus factory is

14 upstate, we buy Nova buses. So we feel good

15 in that we have -- we think we're actually a

16 market leader here in this state in terms of

17 providing opportunities for -- on the subway

18 building side and on the bus building side.

19 I'm familiar with the part of the

20 Executive Budget that proposes a "buy

21 American" requirement for the procurement of

22 goods over $100,000. Clearly we would be

23 fully supportive of that as well.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Thank

290

1 you.

2 Just switching to third track. And

3 Senator Phillips has been a great leader as

4 far as articulating the concerns of her

5 communities and standing up for her

6 communities. And there is a loss of tax

7 base, there is a disruption to businesses,

8 there is an impact on people's quality of

9 life, their property values. You talked

10 about the $2 billion that would be necessary

11 to build the third track, and you also -- I

12 believe you said that there are no federal

13 funds that would be used for this. So this

14 is going to be totally borne by the taxpayers

15 of New York State?

16 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: This will

17 be fully funded through the MTA's capital

18 program through some of the capital program

19 borrowing as well as through other state

20 funds.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So it will be borne

22 by the taxpayers of New York State fully.

23 And the ratepayers, the people who pay tolls.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I think

291

1 -- I think it's a little premature to say

2 where all these funding sources will come

3 from. I think when we come back with a

4 proposed capital program amendment that

5 includes the full third track component to

6 it, that will be the time to see where the

7 funding sources have been identified. That's

8 still a work in progress.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: But you're saying

10 that there will be no federal funds used

11 towards that.

12 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Correct.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So it's New York

14 State people who will pay for it. Correct?

15 I mean, I don't know where else you would get

16 the funding from.

17 So anyway, moving on --

18 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Yeah, I

19 think it will be a function of some of our

20 MTA and some of our capital program borrowing

21 and whatever other sources of funding that

22 are necessary or identified.

23 But we undertook the environmental

24 review process recognizing that we would not

292

1 use federal funds. So we did not proceed

2 through that federal NEPA process but rather

3 the SEQRA process, the state process for

4 environmental review.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. So the

6 people of New York will be footing the bill

7 on that.

8 Just switching again to subway and bus

9 fares, they've risen five times, or by

10 45 percent since 2007, at nearly three times

11 the inflation rate. And fares and tolls will

12 be increasing by 4 percent in March of 2017.

13 What is the MTA doing to control costs and

14 avoid these increases?

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: On the

16 cost-control front, we have taken out of the

17 MTA's operating costs, over the last several

18 years, $1.6 billion in expenses. How did we

19 do that? We went about a very hard review

20 of where there were opportunities for

21 efficiency, eliminating duplication between

22 MTA agencies, consolidating departments,

23 right-sizing departments as well, and

24 consolidating them, whether it's procurement,

293

1 whether it's accounts payable, whether it's

2 HR, our new business service center, all of

3 which gave us the opportunity to continue

4 those cost-control efforts.

5 That translated into our ability to

6 hold down any fares and toll increases to

7 about the rate of inflation. And that's

8 what's in the financial plan going forward as

9 well.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, thank you.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Assembly?

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

13 Next, Assemblyman Cusick.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Thank you. Thank

15 you Mr. Chairman.

16 Director, good to see you again.

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

18 you.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: It was nice

20 meeting you yesterday. And many of the

21 things that I'll be discussing today we spoke

22 about yesterday, and I have assurances from

23 you and from staff that we will follow up on

24 many of this. But I wanted to just ask a few

294

1 questions in the five minutes that we have.

2 Many of my colleagues -- I know that

3 Chairman Dinowitz brought it up, and many of

4 my colleagues are concerned about the

5 proposal of the reduction of $65 million from

6 the transfer from the General Fund. And I

7 know that you answered that you don't foresee

8 any service cuts due to that. But my

9 question is, is there a purpose for that $65

10 million right now that something may occur

11 after there is a cut? Unfortunately, if

12 there is a cut of the $65 million, will

13 something suffer in the MTA budget?

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We have a

15 multiyear financial plan upon which we base

16 our service and upon which we base what may

17 be required in terms of fare or toll

18 increases. There is no reason to anticipate

19 a service cut at all associated with this

20 change in funding level. And again, I

21 emphasize that overall the State Operating

22 Assistance to the MTA actually increased by

23 $30 million.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Okay. And you

295

1 talk about tolls and fare increases. And of

2 course it wouldn't be a budget hearing if I

3 didn't ask about the Verrazano Bridge and the

4 tolling there. We do have the Governor's

5 proposal of the permanent resident discount.

6 The Legislature every year, and the MTA and

7 the Governor, put forward a significant

8 resident discount.

9 But I just wanted to talk about the

10 increases that have occurred and ask about

11 the timeline of increases when it comes to

12 tolls. Tolls have increased since 2011. And

13 I think -- correct me if I'm wrong, I think

14 there are scheduled increases for tolls and

15 fares for 2017, which I believe is going to

16 be next month, right?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Right.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: And then 2019.

19 But is there anything scheduled after 2019 at

20 this point, of toll increases?

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So the

22 financial plan that you're accurately

23 referring to talks about those biennial

24 2-percent-less-the-cost-of-inflation every

296

1 two years. You're correct, we're in the

2 process of implementing the most recent

3 increase next month, in March. Thereafter,

4 in two years again, holding it down. And

5 it's why it's so important for us to hold

6 down our operating expenses, so that we can

7 stay within the financial plan projections.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: So I guess the

9 short question is, as of today, 2019 is the

10 targeted last toll increase that you see

11 right now. I'm getting at, are there going

12 to be any other toll increases after 2019

13 that you foresee today, February 15, 2017?

14 MTA CFO FORAN: You know, I would have

15 to say that we've committed to biennial fare

16 and toll increases. That means the next time

17 that we present our financial plan, we'll be

18 adding another year to it. So in 2021, we

19 would be, as a matter of forecasting -- and I

20 have to say that, as a matter of forecasting,

21 because we do have to make projections -- we

22 would probably put some type of increase in.

23 Now, that doesn't mean it will happen

24 and it doesn't mean that it will happen in

297

1 the dollar amount. But just for our planning

2 purposes, and so that the investment

3 community can see that we're trying to

4 balance within an envelope, we do need to

5 show that.

6 But before we can put any fare and

7 toll increase in place, it's got to be

8 subject to public hearings, and it then,

9 after the public hearing, it needs to go to

10 the board.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Well, that will

12 be a whole other hearing, is the public

13 hearings and discussing how we get people to

14 go to them, because I know they're -- the

15 attendance isn't the greatest.

16 But I would like to, you know, just

17 urge you -- again, it wouldn't be a hearing

18 if I didn't do this -- urge you when it gets

19 to that point that we don't look at

20 increasing the tolls. At this point we're at

21 $17, I believe, and it will be almost $20 if

22 we keep doing this. And it will price people

23 out of the city and the region.

24 I just want to -- my time is running

298

1 out, so I just want to -- I don't want to be

2 rude, but I just want to get to the West

3 Shore light rail study. Last year at this

4 hearing I had asked Chairman Prendergast

5 about the possibility of a West Shore light

6 rail study. He had said at the time that

7 that would be something the MTA would do.

8 When he was asked what agency would do it, he

9 said the MTA would do this. Then it was up

10 to us to figure out how to get funding for

11 this study and work with you for that.

12 During the budget process last year,

13 there was a commitment by the Governor's

14 office and the MTA to go forward with a

15 study, an alternative needs study, analysis,

16 a study to see whether it's feasible to do a

17 light rail on the West Shore towards the

18 Bayonne Bridge. Could you just -- we spoke

19 about this yesterday, Director. I just

20 wanted to follow up and just urge that we

21 continue these discussions. I know that

22 there's been some confusion on what the study

23 will be or what it will do. But this is

24 urgent, and this is something that the people

299

1 in the region, not just Staten Island, would

2 benefit from.

3 And I just would like to again urge

4 the MTA to work with us to come up with -- I

5 know there's funding involved, and we'd like

6 to work with you to come up with that

7 funding. But is there an update right now on

8 where we are with it?

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: As you

10 know, we have undertaken -- and in the

11 capital program, funded -- the North Shore

12 busway environmental analysis and preliminary

13 engineering phase, and that's going on.

14 The -- how we figure out how to also

15 undertake a further review of the West Shore

16 for light rail or an alternative is something

17 that we can absolutely continue to work

18 together on.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: And I know that

20 funding is the issue.

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: It is.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: And I know that

23 the number $4 million has been put out there

24 for an alternative analysis study, which is

300

1 what I've been told needs to be done. And we

2 will work to help find that money.

3 And I'm sure -- this segues a little

4 bit into a question I want to follow up that

5 Chairman Dinowitz had asked. He had asked

6 about a capital plan amendment, and he asked

7 is there a plan to put an amendment forward.

8 And I know the answer was that there was a

9 process that the MTA goes through.

10 Could you just give me a ballpark

11 figure -- are we talking within a year, are

12 we talking months, are we talking years -- as

13 to when an amendment may be put forward?

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We're

15 working on that amendment. But before we

16 come back to Albany with the amendment, we

17 first have to go and brief our board and get

18 their review and approval of it.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Okay. And also

20 with that, with the funding, just to go back

21 quickly to the West Shore light rail, with

22 funding, I know that this will take

23 partnership with New Jersey and some sort of

24 buy-in with New Jersey. And I urge that we

301

1 work with the Port Authority, not have them

2 dismiss it right away, but let's try to work

3 with them. Maybe we could share the expenses

4 somehow that way also.

5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate

6 it.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you. Thank

8 you.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 We've been joined by Senator Roxanne

11 Persaud.

12 And our next speaker is Senator Marty

13 Dilan.

14 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Senator.

16 SENATOR DILAN: Hi.

17 I have a question regarding the MTA

18 operating budget and the sweeps and transfers

19 therein, and also on the issue of parity.

20 I note that the MTA is getting a

21 1 percent -- about a 1 percent increase,

22 which you mentioned was about $30 million, in

23 the current proposed budget. However, in the

24 same breath we're losing $65 million in

302

1 capital funds and then another $121.5 million

2 that's going into the State General Fund. So

3 I see more money going out than coming in.

4 So respectfully, can someone on the

5 panel explain to me what kind of accounting

6 methods we're using? Because the numbers

7 don't seem to add up. And I had like a

8 difficult time explaining this to my

9 conference, how we have $30 million going out

10 and much more going out. So I need an

11 explanation, because many people are

12 confused.

13 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

14 you. Before I turn it over to our CFO, let

15 me just start by saying that you're correct,

16 we are seeing an overall increase in

17 operating assistance by $30 million. The

18 state is committing $4.5 billion in operating

19 assistance to the MTA. That's complementary

20 to their $8.3 billion capital program

21 commitment as well.

22 SENATOR DILAN: Can -- can I interrupt

23 you just one second? With respect to the

24 $8.3 billion, the gentleman made reference to

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1 it. One, he said that you leverage your own

2 bonding to support your capital budget. So

3 that's your assets that are being used to

4 leverage that money. He talked about getting

5 $8.3 billion in the outyears, but I know that

6 there's a caveat to that, and that is you

7 don't get the 8.3 unless you exhaust all your

8 resources. So if you don't exhaust the

9 resources, you'll never see that 8.3.

10 With respect to the issue of parity, I

11 know that there's $600 million from the

12 federal government going into DOT for roads

13 and bridges around the entire state. Then

14 there's an additional $600 million from DOB

15 going into DOT. MTA is not getting that $1.1

16 or $1.2 billion. So where is the parity

17 there? I'm sure you could do a lot of things

18 with $600 million. But still someone needs

19 to explain to me where are the real dollars

20 that are going to the MTA. And I don't mean

21 to put anyone on the spot, but this is a

22 question I've asked year after year, and I

23 don't think we ever got a satisfactory

24 answer. And I think it's time that people

304

1 start answering those questions.

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: On the

3 parity issue, I'm not an expert on overall

4 statewide transportation funding. It does

5 seem like there are a lot of ambitious

6 programs across the state in the

7 transportation space. That inures to the

8 benefit of the whole state.

9 You know, I'm very focused on the

10 MTA's capital program and the MTA's operating

11 budget and our maintenance of our state of

12 good repair and our expansion program.

13 Bob?

14 MTA CFO FORAN: You know, we put

15 together our budget beginning in October and

16 in November. The state puts its budget

17 together, the Executive Budget, you know, in

18 December and it comes out in January. We

19 both make estimates, we both forecast as best

20 we can. We're not always going to be

21 exactly, you know, forecasting the same

22 numbers.

23 And I think that is a little bit of

24 what people are saying is a reduction in

305

1 funds. We are, as the executive director

2 mentioned, receiving more funds this year

3 than before. But when we put a budget

4 together, I have to put a budget together

5 that isn't so tight that if one thing goes

6 wrong, suddenly we're out of kilter.

7 So within any budget, as any good

8 budget person would do, you try to make sure

9 you've got enough flexibility that you could

10 handle something that just comes up

11 unexpectedly.

12 And that's why we're saying with the

13 funding that we're receiving, we're very

14 comfortable at this funding level that we're

15 going to be able to continue through our

16 four-year financial plan period without

17 having to adjust fares or tolls or without

18 having to adjust service levels, that we can

19 accommodate where it is.

20 I'd have to say, I have to be honest,

21 I'd love to have all the money in the world.

22 I'd love to have a lot more money. But right

23 now we also recognize that the MTA is part of

24 the state government, and there are spending

306

1 caps that the state is operating under. And

2 we can't expect to be totally exempt from

3 limitations there.

4 So what is really happening is we're

5 getting more money. We are getting more

6 money. We're not getting as much growth,

7 perhaps, as we might like, but that's just

8 the situation with a cap. And so we can live

9 with that.

10 SENATOR DILAN: I am not going to

11 belabor that here. I hope that down the road

12 you can document to me how you're figuring

13 this out, and we will share that with the

14 public.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

16 Certainly.

17 SENATOR DILAN: But a few more quick

18 questions, if I may.

19 With respect to your additional

20 ridership, how is that impacting your system

21 with respect to your assets that you have to

22 put out and the financial impact?

23 Also, I wanted to ask about -- very

24 quickly -- about the status of the M train.

307

1 And lastly, last year I requested a

2 list of closed exits throughout the City of

3 New York. Thank you, you did provide that

4 information to me. And I believe that you

5 also have a proposal in regard to opening

6 some of those exits in view of the additional

7 ridership.

8 Thank you.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: On the --

10 as you know, because you've shown great

11 partnership with us trying to do community

12 outreach on both the M project and the

13 project on the Canarsie Tunnel, the M project

14 is proceeding. We are -- we've awarded that

15 contract and will be proceeding in the time

16 frame that we've been discussing, which

17 has us starting construction out there as

18 well as up by Metropolitan Avenue, so it's

19 Bushwick and up by Metropolitan Avenue.

20 And we will continue, by the way, our

21 community outreach that we've been doing and

22 that you've also participated in. And we

23 appreciate your support.

24 SENATOR DILAN: Additional ridership?

308

1 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Oh, thank

2 you. In terms of additional ridership, you

3 know, 6 million riders a day stresses a

4 system. And it dovetails with how critically

5 important our capital program is, because we

6 have to continue to invest in our signal

7 system, in our rolling stock, having new

8 subway cars come onto the property. All of

9 that contributes to improving service and

10 improving the reliability of the system.

11 So the ridership is there. We saw

12 that on the Second Avenue Subway; when we

13 opened the new line, it was immediately

14 well-received in the community.

15 But we need to continue looking for

16 opportunities through the capital program

17 investments that we're making to be able to

18 handle the ridership. Fourteen of our 20

19 subway lines are at track capacity today.

20 That means that we couldn't put more subway

21 cars on them unless we do more in terms of

22 communications-based train control, in terms

23 of changing the signaling system. And that's

24 why it's such an important part of our

309

1 capital program investment.

2 You know, 30 percent of our signal

3 system, which is how we move trains on the

4 tracks -- 30 percent of that system was

5 installed when I was 5 years old. So it

6 definitely needs further investment.

7 SENATOR DILAN: Just also with the

8 yellow cabs, there's a 50-cent additional tax

9 on black cars that would normally go into the

10 MTA budget. With the advent of Uber,

11 et cetera, what kind of revenue losses is

12 being impacted?

13 MTA CFO FORAN: Our estimate of what

14 Uber and Lyft and the other app-based

15 carriers have done is about $12 million in

16 loss. And we estimated that, and we've seen

17 it happen over the next years. Now, what

18 continues to go on, I don't know. But it's

19 been kind of two years running, about a

20 $12 million reduction. And we built that

21 into our forecast and into our financial

22 plan.

23 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you.

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Assembly?

310

1 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblyman Ra.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chairman.

3 So I want to go back to the

4 third-track project. And I know you -- in

5 response to Senator Phillips and Senator

6 Young, you did talk, you know, a little bit

7 about an amendment to the capital program

8 that's being presented. But can we delve a

9 little bit more into that?

10 There's obviously -- this is a large

11 project. And, you know, you may not have the

12 full level of detail, but at this juncture

13 we're at the end of the common period for the

14 DEIS. There's construction proposed to start

15 taking place this year. Can -- you know, is

16 there some level of detail -- and I don't

17 expect you to just, you know, pull it out and

18 state it all here, but is there some further

19 level of detail that can be given as to where

20 this money is proposed to come from and what

21 that means to the capital plan, both within

22 the Long Island Railroad and the MTA capital

23 plan?

24 Because obviously this is a big sum of

311

1 money, and that amendment has to mean that

2 something else that was prioritized in this

3 capital program isn't going to get done.

4 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So we've

5 discussed sort of the overall budget for the

6 third track as being $2 billion. We are,

7 though, currently right now negotiating what

8 will be the design-build contract to advance

9 that project. And we'll certainly know a lot

10 more through the period of negotiations that

11 we're in.

12 We will be putting -- and that will

13 inform the plan amendment and what we think

14 will be required in order to award that

15 contract. And the award of the contract

16 would come sometime later this summer, I

17 think.

18 In terms of the funding sources --

19 MTA SENIOR DIR. STEWART: In terms of

20 the funding sources, we'll be looking for

21 efficiencies throughout the entire program to

22 fund this. We're not using federal dollars.

23 Federal dollars usually make up about

24 25 percent of our total program, and we

312

1 usually look for larger projects to fund

2 those, like Second Avenue and East Side

3 Access.

4 So we'll be looking for savings

5 throughout not only this program, but

6 previous programs that are wrapping up right

7 now that may provide us with some surplus.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. And just, you

9 know, with regard to that, there's been --

10 and I certainly will commend the agency and

11 other people that are working on this program

12 in terms of their outreach to the

13 communities. There are a lot of incorporated

14 villages and other unincorporated areas along

15 there, and I know there's been extensive

16 dialogue.

17 But looking at it from being a

18 representative of that area, there's a lot of

19 different things that have been proposed and

20 added to this. And I'm very aware that that

21 increases the cost. But to try to help

22 address the concern of those communities --

23 and until we see a full financial picture, I

24 think it's hard to just look at that and say,

313

1 okay, these are all the benefits the

2 community is getting and this is what they're

3 going to deal with. Because, you know, I

4 guess you don't really know, until you know

5 the full financial picture, that the money is

6 going to be there to do those things that the

7 communities are asking for.

8 So I hope that looking into the

9 financial side of it, you know, will be a

10 very transparent process and you continue

11 that extensive dialogue both with local

12 governments and with, you know, other

13 community groups to make sure that

14 information is disseminated to the public,

15 because we -- I mean myself, I know Senator

16 Phillips, Senator Hannon -- continue to hear

17 from constituents who are very concerned with

18 this, because it truly is construction in a

19 lot of places that is going to be going on

20 directly behind residents' houses.

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

22 Absolutely agree. And frankly, the EIS

23 process under SEQRA demands that we do that.

24 And it informs the scope of the project and

314

1 the ultimately selected mitigation strategies

2 that are committed to through that process

3 and therefore have to be part of our funding

4 envelope.

5 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: And I guess lastly

6 I'll just reiterate something that Senator

7 Phillips mentioned, and that's, you know, a

8 lot of these communities have looked at those

9 grade crossings for a very long time as a

10 safety concern. I think everybody agrees

11 it's a safety concern. And one of the things

12 we continue to hear from our constituents is

13 if it's a safety concern -- just like

14 10 years ago, we're again hearing now,

15 basically, it's a safety concern, but we'll

16 address it as long as we do it as part of

17 this third-track project. So, you know, it's

18 a kind of carrot-and-stick approach. It

19 ended up, you know, all falling by the

20 wayside 10 years ago, and we're back there

21 again.

22 But I think for a lack of a better way

23 of saying it, safety should stand for

24 safety's sake, and not necessarily have to be

315

1 tied to any other initiative.

2 But I thank you for your time tonight.

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

4 you.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

6 Assemblyman.

7 Our next speaker is Senator Kaminsky.

8 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Good afternoon,

9 Director. How are you?

10 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Good,

11 thank you.

12 I know you're new, but I'm just going

13 to come right out with it. My constituents

14 are just describing and living through

15 atrocious service by the Long Island

16 Railroad. It seems like every week there's a

17 different delay, cancellation. And they are

18 just wondering what is happening. Instead of

19 us going in a direction where things are

20 getting better, it seems like we're slipping

21 backwards.

22 And I just -- I get emails about this

23 almost every day. And I'm going to read one

24 in particular, it's actually one of the more

316

1 polite ones, about the issue. There's

2 obviously some with a lot more expletives in

3 them. But I'll read this from Scott, in

4 Malverne.

5 "Dear Senator Kaminsky, as one of your

6 constituents, I'd appreciate it if you would

7 be mindful of the service or lack thereof

8 that the Long Island Railroad has been

9 providing of late. Yesterday evening, on

10 February 7th, the entire signal system at

11 Atlantic Terminal went down, forcing all

12 commuters to go to Penn Station and

13 overcrowding those trains. This morning,

14 some derailment occurred near Jamaica,

15 interfering with the morning rush, with

16 delays and cancellations.

17 "What is happening with the

18 infrastructure as MTA continues to raise

19 fares? Perhaps this is one of those

20 bipartisan topics that all Long Island Bay

21 Senators can address. Thank you."

22 What do I tell Scott and thousands of

23 people like him?

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I think

317

1 the message back to your constituents, who

2 are our Long Island Railroad customers, is,

3 number one, we hear you. Number two, we are

4 working to steadily improve.

5 Those improvements happen over a

6 period of time. Many of them are in fact

7 tied to the capital program and the

8 investments that we're making there. We've

9 talked this morning about third track and the

10 importance to that area. Double track

11 between Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma will also

12 be an important feature that will improve the

13 reliability of the railroad.

14 Improving the station environs is

15 going to be a critical part of the capital

16 program now, so that your constituents will

17 have a station environment, a platform

18 environment that is better than the condition

19 of the platforms that they're on today.

20 We are including the additional

21 purchase of new M9s that will have all the

22 features that a Long Island Railroad commuter

23 wants.

24 We've talked briefly this afternoon

318

1 about the mobile ticketing and trying to make

2 that a customer service amenity.

3 You know, all of the work that we're

4 doing is intended to make the railroad better

5 and make it more reliable, as well as improve

6 the way we communicate with your

7 constituents, and through better customer

8 service.

9 SENATOR KAMINSKY: I appreciate that.

10 I know Long Islanders feel that in light of

11 the taxes they pay and the fares they pay,

12 that they deserve that attention and more.

13 And I would love to see the Long Island

14 Railroad come up with a Marshall plan or the

15 MTA come up with a Marshall-plan-type attack

16 for the Long Island Railroad. I know it's a

17 big area you have, but it seems that we're

18 taking steps backwards.

19 And while you brought up platforms, I

20 just want to highlight two of mine. I do

21 appreciate in the budget that Baldwin and

22 Valley Stream are going to get upgrades, but

23 Lynbrook and Rockville Centre do need help.

24 So I'm going to just show you a picture of

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1 the station at Lynbrook -- I'm going to show

2 you two pictures of the Lynbrook Station here

3 so you can see how much it's crumbling, and

4 there's big ice that freezes over in craters,

5 and rust everywhere. And people are very

6 worried by the state of the station.

7 And these are the steps in Rockville

8 Centre, which obviously have people

9 concerned.

10 So I would love to work with you on

11 those particular two stations. And if you or

12 members of your staff would like to come out

13 and tour them with me, I'd love them to get

14 the attention that I think they deserve.

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

16 Absolutely. We look forward to working

17 together.

18 I will note that the Long Island has

19 also been seeing record ridership. We've

20 talked a lot about how the increase in

21 ridership stresses the system. But the

22 Long Island has also seen a commensurate

23 improvement in on-time performance. So the

24 on-time performance now for 2016 was

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1 92.7 percent. That's 1.1 percent higher than

2 the prior year.

3 So they are trying and they are making

4 some improvements, but absolutely we'll come

5 out and take a look at those stations.

6 SENATOR KAMINSKY: I appreciate it.

7 And we've got a long way to go, but I do

8 appreciate your attention toward the issue.

9 Lastly, after a terrorist attack and

10 an attempted attack last year in Chelsea in

11 New Jersey, a number of us called for having

12 cameras on trains and platforms, the Long

13 Island Railroad response in a letter to me

14 was, "We are doing that, it is being rolled

15 out, it is just something that will take

16 time."

17 Can you update us on where we are with

18 the camera program? Because I think it's

19 certainly targets for would-be terrorists.

20 And God forbid we have to consider that; this

21 is the age we live in. And I think people

22 want to know that if a package is left on a

23 platform or on a train that there's somebody

24 who's going to be monitoring and picking that

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1 up.

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The Long

3 Island's plan has cameras being installed in

4 all of its stations, all 124 of its stations,

5 by 2019.

6 In addition, all of the new M9 fleet

7 will include cameras as well. And every

8 grade crossing modification will include

9 cameras as well. Cameras are an integral

10 part of what is really a multilayered

11 security program that is both at the railroad

12 and other areas of the MTA network.

13 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay. And just

14 finally, what about inside the train cars

15 themselves?

16 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Inside

17 the cars. The new ones come with cameras,

18 and the railroad will be working on a plan to

19 retrofit the older railcars.

20 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Okay, I think

21 that's great. I'm looking forward to working

22 with you on that, and thank you for your time

23 today.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

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1 you.

2 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Thank you,

3 Chairwoman.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 Assemblyman Otis.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you,

8 Mr. Chairman.

9 Welcome. I want to talk to you about

10 Metro-North and particularly the New Haven

11 Line. And I know you have experienced record

12 ridership on all three lines. The New Haven

13 Line is your busiest line, but there has been

14 for a long time now a large congestion

15 problem, which it's not easy to solve, and we

16 understand there are capacity issues and size

17 of train issues and Connecticut issues.

18 But the frustration of riders,

19 especially during commuting hours, is

20 significant in that it is a daily occurrence

21 where a significant number of people do not

22 have seats, are standing. And we need more

23 cars, we need more trains, we need to figure

24 out a way, given the space, time and

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1 platform-length issues, to still try and

2 address this serious need. It is not going

3 to go away; the ridership continues to grow.

4 So -- and I know, 15 days on the job,

5 you're not going to have all the answers.

6 I'd be a little harder if we were at 20 days,

7 but --

8 (Laughter.)

9 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: So whatever you can

10 share now, and then -- and more follow-up

11 after. But not a new issue and something

12 that we really need to address.

13 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: And let

14 me start off by saying that I look forward to

15 working together on some of these issues.

16 The New Haven Line's on-time

17 performance is at about 92.1 percent. You're

18 right -- increasing ridership, peak-hour

19 scheduling is something that we have to take

20 a look at. There are limits to how many

21 trains we can run through this corridor. And

22 so the Metro-North operations planning folks

23 do look to see where they can move rolling

24 stock and try to provide an additional train,

324

1 but we're constrained by that, by the fact

2 that all of the lines, you know, need

3 additional rolling stock.

4 There are procurements underway to

5 have some new cars delivered, but it takes

6 time.

7 So part of it is going to be a

8 function of looking at schedules and looking

9 at ridership trends and seeing whether there

10 are opportunities to adjust those schedules

11 in order to better meet ridership. But the

12 New Haven Line, I've been on it, it's

13 crowded. I recognize that.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Well, and I think

15 that the -- while you've had ridership

16 increases on the other lines, but there's a

17 much -- there's a lot more space and a lot

18 more seats on the Harlem and Hudson lines,

19 and so while their ridership has gone up,

20 they don't have as significant congestion

21 issues or congestion issues at all if you

22 just look at the comparables.

23 So we really need to figure out a way

24 to do it. Some of it is maybe technology,

325

1 because it's hard to tie more trains in a

2 limited space, I get that. But we have to

3 come up with a better solution for our

4 customers.

5 So thank you for the help on that, and

6 appreciate always the good help -- and we've

7 had great cooperation from MTA and

8 Metro-North, and we say thank you for that.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

10 you.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, so it's our

14 turn. And that would be Senator Hoylman.

15 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you, Madam

16 Chair.

17 Very nice to see you this afternoon.

18 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thanks.

19 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Congratulations. I

20 guess when they say you have big shoes to

21 fill, that's literally and figuratively. And

22 congratulations on being the first woman to

23 head the largest transportation system in the

24 country.

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1 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

2 you.

3 SENATOR HOYLMAN: I am a little

4 despondent about the $65 million cut, mainly

5 because transportation experts say for every

6 dollar we spend in mass transit, there's a $4

7 economic return.

8 That said, I do appreciate the

9 outreach you've made with my community --

10 which is Manhattan -- around 14th Street on

11 the coming L train shutdown. As you know,

12 60,000 riders take the L from river to river

13 in Manhattan alone. So that's a big concern

14 to my constituents.

15 One of the things they're concerned

16 about is what happens during that 18-month

17 period aboveground when we may use that space

18 for express buses, for example, or greater

19 pedestrian access -- all good things, but

20 we're concerned about the side streets and

21 additional traffic. Because as you know,

22 14th Street is such an important artery for

23 Manhattan.

24 We're trying to get the MTA to commit

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1 to public meetings -- and there's one

2 actually next week, which is a very positive

3 step. But we're concerned about actually the

4 study to look at traffic patterns on

5 14th Street and making sure that my

6 constituents have a role in not just

7 examining the results of the study, but

8 participating in its design. And

9 understanding when that study is going to

10 take place, what the parameters of it will

11 be, and its methodology, even.

12 Could I get a commitment from you that

13 you will meet with the local community

14 specifically on the study to help design what

15 it might look like and, you know, when we're

16 prepared to move forward?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Why don't

18 we do this. A lot of this work is already

19 underway, because we're -- as we've

20 discussed, and being out in the communities,

21 we want to be back out into the community

22 with some further information about the

23 alternatives that we're looking at. And

24 again, nothing's been decided yet.

328

1 Perhaps a good way to do it would be

2 to come out, talk to the community about what

3 we're doing, and hear back any other further

4 ideas or things they think we should be

5 looking at.

6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Well, I guess part

7 of that is going to happen next week, and a

8 lot of my constituents will be there to

9 discuss that. They just want a seat at the

10 table to make sure that you hear their

11 concerns. And again, I think you've been

12 doing a terrific job up to now, but we have

13 to make sure that that work continues.

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We'll

15 continue to do that. Thank you.

16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you.

17 And in connection with the L train

18 shutdown, the MTA has made a commitment for

19 ADA accessibility and a second entrance at

20 1st Avenue. And that's a great legacy

21 project, I think, that will come from your

22 work on the L. But beyond that, what about

23 8th Avenue, 6th Avenue, Union Square,

24 3rd Avenue, or the 1st Avenue stops? Are you

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1 going to be looking at ADA accessibility for

2 those stops as well?

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: There are

4 some parts of our capital program that

5 include some ADA improvements. But as part

6 of the L, I don't think beyond what we've

7 said is included in the project already,

8 which is the ADA accessibility at Avenue A

9 for the 1st Avenue station on the Manhattan

10 side and another ADA accessible station in

11 Brooklyn at Bedford Avenue.

12 I think the other improvements that we

13 would be looking to make would be other

14 improvements but not elevators specifically

15 along the L Line as part of the L project

16 itself.

17 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Could -- I mean, I

18 would urge you to reconsider that approach.

19 And I was talking to my colleague from the

20 Assembly who represents part of the district

21 on the Lower East Side. For example, the F

22 train itself needs desperately elevator

23 access for seniors. What is the plan overall

24 looking at ADA accessibility, and why isn't

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1 that like at the top of your agenda, given

2 the federal requirements?

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We have

4 an ADA program that we've been working on

5 quite diligently. We have a commitment to

6 complete 100 stations of that -- I've

7 forgotten the precise number, but we'll get

8 back to you with the precise number. But the

9 majority of that work is already completed,

10 and then the other two projects I think

11 remaining are in design already and will be

12 advanced as part of this program.

13 Aside from that, we've also advanced

14 ADA accessibility beyond just the key station

15 program as well. So we have been looking for

16 opportunities to pursue accessibility in the

17 system.

18 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you. And just

19 three quick lightning-round questions.

20 One, a constituent who's concerned

21 that -- they wish there was another way to

22 get a refund on a card than just using snail

23 mail. Is there any thought to making that

24 process more seamless and not having to mail

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1 in a request for a refund?

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We have a

3 customer service center on Stone Street, and

4 that would be an opportunity for them.

5 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Okay. I would urge

6 you to look at that.

7 And then the issue of odd balances

8 left on MTA cards. I get that question a

9 lot. Will the fare increase address that?

10 Will you still have to use those -- you know,

11 those three kind of preset buttons that kind

12 of result in you having five cents left on a

13 card?

14 It seems that it's almost a scheme by

15 the MTA to get some extra revenue. I could

16 be wrong. But on that note, do you have any

17 idea what the revenue totals are in terms of

18 remaining balances on MTA cards, unused MTA

19 cards?

20 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't.

21 MTA CFO FORAN: No, I don't know

22 specifically on those cards.

23 SENATOR HOYLMAN: I'd be very

24 interested to know that, if you could get

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1 back to me.

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We can

3 get that information back to you, sir.

4 SENATOR HOYLMAN: That would be a real

5 step, I think, in customer service, to

6 eliminate those fare balances on MetroCards.

7 That's my two cents, so to speak.

8 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: No, I

9 appreciate that.

10 One of the things that we've been

11 discussing is and -- and rolling it out

12 coincident with the upcoming fare increase is

13 how to best educate our customer about what's

14 the package of MetroCard purchase that works

15 the best for them. You know, should you buy

16 that single ticket, should you look at buying

17 a seven-day unlimited card, where are you

18 traveling and what's the frequency of your

19 travel.

20 So we have some folks thinking about

21 how can we go out there and educate our

22 customers about how to avoid exactly the

23 issue that you're talking about.

24 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And then finally, do

333

1 you have a ballpark figure of what your cost

2 overruns are on an annual basis, or what they

3 were in the last calendar year?

4 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We've

5 actually brought our costs down.

6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: I'm sorry,

7 construction overruns is what the constituent

8 was referring to.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't

10 have that figure handy, no. We'll provide

11 it.

12 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you very much.

13 I appreciate it.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

15 Assemblywoman Wright.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Good afternoon.

17 Thank you for your answers and your comments

18 earlier regarding your commitment to

19 improving service and train reliability. I

20 live in a district that is serviced -- I

21 share a border with Senator Dilan, so we have

22 the J, the A and the C, the 3 and the 4 Lines

23 as well as two of the SBS buses. And I ride

24 mass transit, I don't drive. So I'm very

334

1 familiar with the service and/or the lack

2 thereof in our community.

3 And one of the biggest concerns, which

4 Senator Dilan brought up, is that we have

5 stations with only one exit that are

6 servicing over 30,000 people a day. This is

7 out of one exit, and this is only the normal

8 flow of traffic of people getting off at that

9 station. And it's particularly dangerous in

10 this climate that we live in.

11 So I wanted to know are -- and so

12 that's both on the J Line and on the A/C,

13 particularly at the Nostrand Avenue station,

14 where we have a closed exit at the Bedford

15 end. We would really appreciate if you could

16 add that to your amended capital budget.

17 And also on the J Line we have

18 numerous exits that are closed, and so it

19 leaves patrons usually having about a

20 four-minute process to actually exit a train

21 station, and that means no flow of traffic

22 can come onto the platform at that time. And

23 that's in both of those stations.

24 So I would like to know from you if

335

1 that could be added to the commitment to open

2 up those additional exits.

3 And then I notice you mentioned a

4 thousand new subway cars. And I'm hoping

5 that that's going to result in additional

6 cars on the line. So I noted you said that

7 you have to adjust the train controls. Can

8 you please let me know if any of those

9 investments on the train control are going to

10 happen on the A/C Line, and if it will result

11 in additional cars -- trains on that line.

12 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Yeah, so

13 a couple of points.

14 We actually are undertaking an

15 inventory of some of our closed entrances

16 along the lines that you're just talking

17 about to see where there are opportunities to

18 open those entrances. And we'll undertake to

19 complete that inventory and be out with any

20 results around that. That's first.

21 In terms of capacity improvements, one

22 of the things that we're looking at as we are

23 receiving some new subway cars is trying to

24 increase a little capacity on the A and the

336

1 C. One of the things we've been talking

2 about in light of the fact that we will have

3 the Canarsie Tunnel shutdown on the L, we

4 know that people will be diverting to

5 different train lines, and how to increase

6 what cars we have available -- using some of

7 those cars, by the way, on those different

8 lines.

9 So as we start to talking about what

10 alternative service strategies we can unroll,

11 I think this would be an opportune time to

12 further that conversation with you.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Okay, great.

14 Because I know whenever I leave between the

15 hours of 7:00 and 8:00, I have to let at

16 least one train pass me at the Utica Avenue

17 Station. So it's extremely crowded. And

18 we're like the five -- people are riding four

19 stops, and then we get another load and then

20 riding four to six more stops.

21 Along the rollout of the SBS buses,

22 the B46 -- I appreciate the service that it

23 provides to our southern Brooklyn neighbors.

24 However, it is a congestion nightmare in our

337

1 district. So north of Fulton Street, it

2 backs up, they arrive three at a time. And I

3 just feel like it needs some attention.

4 I know that you're trying to reduce

5 operating costs, and that has resulted in us

6 losing our token booth clerks.

7 Unfortunately, that is particularly dangerous

8 along our C Line, where people enter into

9 train stations, no one's down there, and

10 oftentimes the MetroCard machines do not

11 work. So not only are they in a space that

12 has no other human there, or no authorized

13 human there, they're in a space where they

14 can't even get access onto the platform where

15 they might be able to have the company of

16 other patrons.

17 So I don't know if there's any way you

18 could bring them back, especially on local

19 stations where there's no crossover between

20 the two lines. It's just dangerous.

21 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The

22 challenge for us is balancing where to put

23 those resources.

24 The one thing that we have done and

338

1 want to continue is the rollout of the help

2 points, which provide emergency intercom

3 access at every platform. And so that is

4 available, it is a safety feature.

5 But I will take a look at the C

6 Stations.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: And if the

8 MetroCard machines are not working, therefore

9 patrons who -- God forbid if they have

10 trouble walking up and down stairs. They

11 have to walk down, walk back up, go across

12 the street, walk down, walk up, and then come

13 across and walk back down. And that's

14 happened to me several times at the -- I want

15 to say at the -- again, at the Nostrand

16 Avenue Station. And it's really -- that

17 kills someone's experience, even if they

18 normally have generally good experiences on

19 the MTA.

20 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I'll take

21 a look at that.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Thank you very

23 much. Those are the concerns.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

339

1 you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. We've

3 been joined by Senator Leroy Comrie.

4 And I want to give the members a sense

5 of what the batting lineup is. Next we have

6 Senator Liz Krueger, then Senator Diane

7 Savino, Senator Roxanne Persaud, Senator

8 Elaine Phillips, and then, finally, Senator

9 Leroy Comrie.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

11 Well, we had a chance to speak earlier

12 today, so an hour's worth of my questions we

13 already covered. And many people covered

14 many other questions.

15 But I do want to ask just two that

16 weren't brought up today. So with East Side

17 Access, which will start or end in my

18 district -- I don't know how you define, one

19 way or the other, Grand Central -- the

20 eastbound rerouting project within that

21 project had an appropriation increased almost

22 10 times the original cost in the -- from the

23 2014 draft plan. So can you tell me what

24 happened that would increase the cost by

340

1 10 times?

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't

3 know the starting figures. The current cost

4 for East Side Access I think is hovering at

5 about $10 billion. The things that have

6 driven up costs on that, including some

7 construction contingencies that occurred

8 during the course -- increased costs for

9 support by Amtrak. As you know, a tremendous

10 amount of that work is performed by Amtrak

11 forces, and we have to pay for that.

12 Increasing costs with the finishes and the

13 systems contracts that are underway right

14 now.

15 I don't know, Craig, if you have any

16 additional information on the --

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Because I think this

18 was a 10 times increase just since 2014. I

19 mean, the East Side Access cost has just been

20 skyrocketing since the beginning, right? I

21 mean, so much going on in Queens that costs

22 so much more. But this was a really big

23 jump, and this just --

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The jump

341

1 that I'm aware of is from 8.2 to 10.

2 MTA SENIOR DIR. STEWART: Yeah. It's

3 also associated with the additional schedule.

4 The schedule fell behind, so we added more

5 money for the number of years that were

6 slipped on the schedule.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay. And the fact

8 that it was specific to the eastbound

9 reroute as opposed to the entire project

10 doesn't trigger any other information for

11 you?

12 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: No, but

13 we'll go back and look at that and send you

14 some information on that.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay, thank you.

16 And then I asked this question of DOT

17 earlier, but in fact they were right that I

18 should be asking you, with the -- at least

19 specific for downstate. With the Governor's

20 proposal -- sorry, just to get the name right

21 for his -- give me one more second -- for his

22 electronic LED bridge and tunnel lighting

23 plan, how do we deal with the fact that

24 research is showing, including from the

342

1 American Medical Association, that there are

2 health impacts related to LED lighting,

3 particularly in relationship to sleep

4 effects? And constituents complain -- at

5 least in the City of New York tend to

6 complain about light pollution and noise

7 pollution particularly coming into their

8 bedrooms. And that in fact in 2014, we

9 passed a law called Dark Skies, which

10 requires shielding of roadway lights and

11 strict limits on decorative lighting

12 strength.

13 So how are we going to mesh the

14 Governor's current proposal with the law that

15 we recently passed for, I think, some good

16 reasons?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So let me

18 start off with the punch line, which is that

19 this project, the illumination project, will

20 be fully compliant with the Dark Skies Law.

21 And so to the extent that that requires

22 shielding fixtures, low-wattage LED fixtures,

23 all of that will be part of this project and

24 engineered in.

343

1 This is an exciting program in terms

2 of the appearance of bridges, but we need to

3 be mindful and address all of the concerns

4 that were the genesis of the Dark Skies Law,

5 and we'll be compliant with that.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: So MTA is not exempt

7 from the Dark Skies law, as far as you know.

8 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Correct.

9 If we are exempt, we're not taking advantage

10 of that. We are complying with it.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: And you mentioned in

12 your testimony that you're going to be

13 rolling out your plan for contactless fare

14 payments earlier than originally planned. Is

15 that going to come in a phased-in process?

16 Do you have a plan for where you're piloting?

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Yes, it

18 will be phased in. The initial -- one could

19 say that the initial new fare payment has

20 already begun, with the mobile eTickets that

21 the railroads are now rolling out.

22 But our program will start off in a

23 phased approach beginning in 2018. And so we

24 still will be using the MetroCard for some

344

1 time but ultimately think that it's a great

2 advantage to have an open payment system

3 where whatever you choose to carry, whether

4 it's a phone, whether it's a credit card with

5 a chip, whether it's a fare card -- anything

6 that will be able to open the fare gate

7 contactlessly.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: And are you assuming

9 you start on subways versus buses?

10 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We'll be

11 starting on a limited number of subway

12 stations, first with people that will have a

13 joint ticket with the Long Island Railroad

14 and also use the subway system. So we'll

15 target a few subway stations in the

16 beginning.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

18 Thank you.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

21 Assemblywoman Hyndman.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Good

23 afternoon, and congratulations.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

345

1 you.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: I represent an

3 area of Queens where the commute from door to

4 door from my door to Midtown Manhattan can

5 take approximately an hour and 50 minutes,

6 and that's on a good day. So a lot of our

7 residents choose to take the Long Island

8 Railroad to cut down on their travel time.

9 And I know City Council is looking at what's

10 called a Freedom Ticket.

11 But not to say it has to be the same

12 price, but I have four Long Island Railroad

13 stations in my district, and I know you've

14 talked about increased ridership. We're

15 right on the borderline of Nassau County, so

16 a lot of our residents choose to take the

17 railroad. What if any parity could be given

18 to residents who live in New York City,

19 especially in Queens? I believe Queens has

20 about 21 Long Island Railroad stations. And

21 I know other members in the Assembly, we have

22 discussed making it fair for our constituents

23 to also take the Long Island Railroad at a

24 reduced cost.

346

1 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: When our

2 board recently considered the subject of

3 fares, they also considered this issue. And

4 the direction that we got was to implement a

5 field study for the city zone area of the

6 Long Island Railroad, where we would

7 establish a ticket that would be somewhere

8 between a MetroCard ticket price and a

9 Long Island Railroad ticket price, but at a

10 reduction. We haven't determined what

11 exactly that ticket price is going to be yet.

12 But it is consistent to be able to bring

13 people on the Long Island Railroad from that

14 area of Queens and then over to the Atlantic

15 Terminal, where there are then further

16 opportunities for transfer.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: So not to

18 Penn Station?

19 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The first

20 part of the field study is to Atlantic

21 Terminal, because that's where we have the

22 capacity to take on additional ridership.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: You mentioned

24 the new buses. About how many did you say,

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1 900 new buses?

2 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thirteen

3 hundred.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Thirteen

5 hundred. How do you prioritize that?

6 Because a lot of our constituents, especially

7 the seniors, talk about the quality of buses

8 that we have. How do you prioritize what

9 areas of the city get --

10 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: We've

11 actually recently deployed I think nearly 70

12 new buses in Queens.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: In southeast

14 Queens?

15 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Yes.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Okay. And my

17 last question also goes to my colleagues in

18 Nassau with this third rail. It would --

19 downtown Jamaica is about to experience or is

20 experiencing tremendous growth, and building

21 is going on. How would this third rail

22 affect Queens -- Jamaica, Queens, especially?

23 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't

24 think the third track in and of itself will

348

1 have a further exacerbating impact on

2 Jamaica. Jamaica, you're right, it's an area

3 of large growth. We are looking at our

4 capital program for both the Long Island

5 Railroad improvements at Jamaica as well as

6 New York City Transit improvements at Jamaica

7 to see what we can do there.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: And do you

9 have a start date? There's a bus depot --

10 it's fully funded, I believe, by the MTA --

11 on Merrick Boulevard. Is there a start date

12 for that bus depot which would tremendously

13 help southeast Queens?

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I don't

15 know the start date, but we'll get that

16 information to you.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Okay. Thank

18 you.

19 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

20 you.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So we'll go with

23 Senator Phillips.

24 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Thank you again.

349

1 And I'll be quick. So as someone who used

2 the Long Island Railroad for years and as a

3 working mother was extremely dependent on the

4 reliability and the on-time performance,

5 thank you for continuing to focus on that.

6 But I will say -- Senator Kaminsky

7 brought it up -- it is very hard for

8 residents that on Long Island, where

9 affordability is so key, to embrace spending

10 and paying, because there are no federal

11 dollars that are being looked at -- even

12 though I'm hoping we have a president that

13 would make a commitment to this -- to absorb

14 these additional costs, when the existing

15 infrastructure -- like Senator Kaminsky's

16 Valley Stream -- I'll use an example,

17 Floral Park, who's had an elevator that has

18 not worked, I'm told, for over a decade. So

19 it is very difficult for people to say they

20 want additional tax dollars to go to new

21 things when the current infrastructure isn't

22 being maintained.

23 So is there a commitment by the MTA to

24 maintain the existing and then, if funding

350

1 becomes available, for new infrastructure?

2 And what's the plan?

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So in the

4 Long Island Railroad's existing capital

5 program of $2.8 billion, a portion of that

6 does goes go to station improvements. In

7 addition, we are looking to see what other

8 station improvements can be done to make the

9 environment better, as safe as it possibly

10 can be.

11 We spoke about a little bit about

12 on-time performance increasing. I should

13 also mention that the fleet reliability has

14 been steadily increasing as well. All of

15 those things help -- help -- the commuter

16 recognize that the reliability of their

17 service is improving.

18 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Okay, if you can

19 focus on some of the stations.

20 So I'd like to go back to the third

21 track and the DEIS. So the MTA concedes that

22 this project will result in moving a lot of

23 soil and lots of excavation of soil that's

24 been used, in the past, in heavily industrial

351

1 areas. There is some concern, I know, over

2 in Greenridge on some soil testings that are

3 being done there.

4 And I'd like to just emphasize that,

5 you know, Long Island's number-one resource

6 is our water. We drink our groundwater. So

7 what is the plan, I guess, for -- to test?

8 Will the testing results be made public? And

9 is there a commitment, again, to make sure

10 mitigation is done before a shovel gets into

11 the soil?

12 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: The way

13 the process works, as we identify

14 environmental risks and impacts, we have to

15 come up with a plan for mitigating them.

16 That has to be part of what will ultimately

17 be a final environmental impact statement.

18 And that becomes a contract, if you will,

19 with the public about how we're going to

20 build this project and what we're going to do

21 to ensure the environmental protections that

22 you're exactly referring to.

23 I don't know what the specifics are

24 yet about what they've studied so far and

352

1 what has or hasn't been made available. But

2 I think in all of the community outreach that

3 we're doing and will continue to do, we

4 certainly can put that on the agenda of

5 something to discuss.

6 SENATOR PHILLIPS: That's a big

7 concern.

8 So I would just like to reiterate my

9 thanks to you and the MTA for your efforts to

10 engage the community during the scoping

11 process, and you have my commitment to work

12 with you. But I will say there is much more

13 work to be done.

14 And I'd like to get your commitment

15 today that you will continue to hear the

16 concerns of the communities and the people

17 whose lives will be most disrupted by this

18 mammoth project, that you'll make it a

19 priority to see that their questions are

20 answered and, as importantly, that there will

21 be a continued engagement, should this

22 project move forward, throughout the

23 construction phase and afterwards.

24 I'd like to thank the chairmen and my

353

1 colleagues for allowing me this additional

2 time to raise these important issues, and I'd

3 like to thank you and congratulate you and

4 your team for being here to speak with us

5 today.

6 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

7 you. And you have our commitment that we

8 will continue working together with the

9 community.

10 SENATOR PHILLIPS: Thank you.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblywoman

13 Simon.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.

15 And congratulations. Always good to

16 see a woman running a big operation.

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

18 you.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: I have a number

20 of questions, so I'll kind of list them and

21 then you can take them.

22 Number one is one of my colleagues

23 asked about the L train. And I'm in downtown

24 Brooklyn -- Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens --

354

1 where I have four or five stations in my

2 district that are affected by the F

3 non-express. And it is where the greatest

4 ridership is, and where we are going to have

5 a 50 percent reduction in service.

6 There is a separate train track

7 underneath that I understand that hasn't been

8 restored because of a fire at Bergen

9 Street -- which was probably 25 years ago. I

10 remember that happening.

11 But with the L train going out, that's

12 also the G, and that's going to put greater

13 reliance on the G train. And of course the

14 greater ridership for all of those is up to

15 Church Avenue.

16 So we have been trying to get a

17 meeting with MTA people for months and months

18 and months and haven't been able to do that.

19 But the elected officials in the area are all

20 very concerned. And so I (a) would like to

21 know what can be done, if we can, to

22 alleviate that, what I think is going to be

23 kind of a perfect storm on the F train, and

24 those impacts.

355

1 My other issue is ADA accessibility.

2 You know, when they redid 9th Street, Smith

3 and 9th, it's the highest station in the

4 system, they didn't put in any elevators.

5 Which was really a shame to do that. It

6 wasn't on the list. But you know, that list

7 of key stations, some of those stations

8 aren't key anymore and other stations are.

9 Because I know people who were involved with

10 that case when it was settled, and it's been

11 a long, long time to bring that up.

12 But also the elevators not working,

13 and escalators. And for people with mobility

14 impairments that are not wheelchair users,

15 people with heart conditions, escalators are

16 extraordinarily important. And that's a real

17 problem. And it's a real problem at Smith

18 and 9th.

19 The other issues also on the F is the

20 York Street Station, which is one of those

21 stations with only one exit, and it's in

22 Dumbo. And it's got increased -- it serves

23 Dumbo and Vinegar Hill, which has increased

24 population and more and more building every

356

1 day in that area. And what can be done to

2 look at the capital costs of adding an exit

3 to the York Street Station.

4 And then the B71 bus, which we have

5 actually plotted out a smoothed route, which

6 had been cut years ago and really has hurt

7 seniors and schoolchildren the most. But we

8 actually have a proposal for it, done by

9 colleagues who are transit professionals,

10 which I think I would really like to have

11 that looked at.

12 That was that long list, I'm sorry.

13 Thank you.

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: No, I

15 appreciate that. And you've touched on a

16 number of issues. The first -- let me start

17 off with how much work we're doing on the F

18 right now. We have work going on both -- you

19 know, and it affects our weekday service and

20 our weekend service, along the Culver Line.

21 And you're aware of that and the impacts

22 that's been having.

23 We've been out trying to talk to

24 customers and educate them about how best to

357

1 travel through that corridor, recognizing

2 that we need to get that work done and we

3 need to get it done as quickly as possible.

4 And the early looks that I've gotten, they're

5 great. The station improvement work is

6 really coming along nicely. But that, in and

7 of itself, has caused a change in service on

8 the F. And so we're not able to implement

9 further changes on the F, because we have to

10 get this capital program done.

11 And then you mentioned the L Line, and

12 the L work is going to start in the first

13 quarter of 2019. And that's going to, you're

14 right, have further cascading impacts, even

15 though we don't know quite yet what the

16 alternate service plans are. But we think

17 that people are going to go to other subways.

18 We're going to look at opening exits

19 that are currently closed. We'll look at

20 what we can do at Church Avenue. But all of

21 which means that whatever had been previously

22 studied in terms of an F Express, we really

23 have to get all this other work underway

24 before we could take another look at that

358

1 report.

2 So from my own perspective, you know,

3 glad to talk with you about it further, but

4 we really need to stay focused on the work

5 that we have on our plate, because it's a

6 lot. It's a very large plate.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Well, we've been

8 told that the F Express, which would improve

9 times further out in Brooklyn by four or five

10 minutes, but then really curtail the

11 experience from Church Avenue to where my

12 route would end in York Street just before it

13 goes into Manhattan, we would have a

14 50 percent reduction, because it would stop

15 every other train.

16 We are told that that will go into

17 effect in the summer. Which is of great

18 concern to people because we haven't been

19 able to have this looked at by talking with

20 the MTA about it, and it seems to us kind of

21 precipitous given those other issues that you

22 just mentioned in terms of the work.

23 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I think,

24 you know, the new news for us is that we are

359

1 doing all of this work and we will be having

2 the Canarsie shutdown. And we know that the

3 F is going to be impacted because of the

4 Canarsie shutdown because it shares tracks

5 with the M and the G, and we know we have to

6 increase some capacity on those lines.

7 So I think we should talk further

8 about what the service strategies are, but a

9 lot of work has to happen -- and a lot of

10 work is underway already -- before we would

11 revisit that issue.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Okay. Thank you

13 very much.

14 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

15 you.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Senator.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Savino is

18 next, then Senator Persaud, then Senator

19 Comrie.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

21 Young.

22 Thank you, Director Hakim. I know

23 you've been here for quite a while --

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

360

1 you.

2 SENATOR SAVINO: So I know my good

3 colleague from Staten Island addressed most

4 of the Staten Island-based issues, so I won't

5 go over them again, and I'm going to try and

6 stay within the five-minute questioning

7 period.

8 I want to talk a bit about south

9 Brooklyn, though. We were very happy to see

10 the extension of the F Express service coming

11 out to Coney Island. It's going to be a big

12 help to the people on the south end of

13 Brooklyn. And as you know, in 2010 when

14 those big service reductions were put in

15 place, we lost a lot of express bus service,

16 which the people of south Brooklyn really

17 depend upon. Some of it's been restored, but

18 not a lot of it, and there are some real

19 service gaps in south Brooklyn.

20 And part of the problem is we also

21 have a large senior population around, you

22 know, the Warbasse Houses and Trump Village

23 and Luna Park. And those seniors depended on

24 some of those express buses; they're not

361

1 there now, and they now have to rely on the

2 trains and the subway, which is an elevated

3 line at Neptune Avenue. And there's no

4 elevator there for them. It has become a

5 real problem for people accessing the subway

6 there.

7 And we're hoping that in the capital

8 budget going forward, that there's a way that

9 your agency can find to build an elevator for

10 the Neptune Avenue Station. It's critically

11 important. It's not only a NORC, it's also a

12 designated evacuation area. And we saw what

13 happened after Hurricane Sandy, where

14 thousands of residents of Warbasse and Trump

15 and Luna Park were stranded in their homes

16 for days, and had we had to evacuate them,

17 there would have been no way for us to get

18 them onto the subway. They just physically

19 are incapable of doing so.

20 So we would hope -- you know, we've

21 written to the agency, we've had many

22 conversations with Tom, your predecessor, in

23 the past, and we know, you know, the

24 difficulties of allocating capital funding.

362

1 But, you know, in this huge capital budget we

2 really hope that you will find a way to add

3 elevator service to the Neptune Avenue

4 Station.

5 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I'll take

6 a look at that.

7 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. And on

8 that note, I am done.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Senator?

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

11 Next is Senator Roxanne Persaud.

12 SENATOR PERSAUD: Good afternoon.

13 Thank you very much for being here, Madam

14 Director.

15 You know, my colleagues have been

16 asking about the L train, and I happen to

17 represent Canarsie. And I think first we

18 have to change the -- when we speak of the

19 L train, we have to let people know that it's

20 not a shutdown in Canarsie, because everyone

21 is panicking when you say "the L train

22 shutdown." We have to change the messaging

23 when we're talking about the train.

24 That being said, last year we had a

363

1 hearing in Canarsie, with everyone coming to

2 talk about what to expect and ask for

3 suggestions and all of that. And many people

4 asked about ferry service leaving from the

5 Canarsie Pier, and we were told that a study

6 was going to be commenced and we would hear

7 something about it.

8 We were also told that, you know,

9 Canarsians can transfer at Broadway Junction.

10 The problem at Broadway Junction that

11 everyone is talking about, it's not

12 ADA-accessible. If you travel the L train

13 and you're coming from Rockaway Parkway and

14 you're transferring to the A, the C, the J,

15 the M, any of those trains there, there's no

16 way for people who are physically challenged

17 to go anywhere. And so that's their main

18 transfer point.

19 We asked about having a study done

20 about fixing that station. Can you tell us

21 where it is? Has anything been done?

22 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: So we're

23 in the planning stage right now of gathering

24 information, getting a lot of feedback from

364

1 the communities that we've been out and doing

2 outreach in, understanding what different

3 paths of travel are and what the potential

4 alternative service plans can be.

5 What we were planning on is coming

6 back out to the communities in the summer

7 time frame when we have more information

8 about what we think makes sense for an

9 alternate service plan, to again get some

10 feedback about whether our plans will meet

11 the communities' needs. And we'll do that.

12 In terms of the ferry at Canarsie, I

13 don't remember a study being undertaken, but

14 I'll take that back and we'll work with DOT,

15 because they franchise the ferry service for

16 the city and they would be part of our

17 partnership in terms of increasing ferries as

18 part of this alternative service plan during

19 the limited shutdown of the Canarsie Tube

20 from Bedford Avenue to 8th Avenue in

21 Manhattan.

22 Thank you for correcting me, because

23 you're correct, for the 200,000 people that

24 travel on the L from Canarsie into

365

1 Williamsburg, that travel will continue to be

2 the case.

3 SENATOR PERSAUD: I'll explain that to

4 my colleague. Senator Dilan also wanted to

5 make sure everyone knew that.

6 In terms of -- we were talking about

7 ADA. I have all of the elevated train

8 stations across the East New York end of my

9 district. Lots of seniors. There's no way

10 for them to get up and down those stairs.

11 Maybe someone from MTA should try walking

12 those stairs on a daily basis to see what the

13 seniors have to go through. We have to do

14 something about people getting up and down,

15 so they can access the trains.

16 Whether it's the New Lots Station,

17 Pennsylvania Avenue Station, every one of the

18 elevated stations, there is no way for

19 physically challenged people to get up there.

20 Transportation around there is also

21 limited. So you have people -- I've stood

22 there by the New Lots Station, and they're

23 taking taxis from New Lots to get to other

24 stations, to the train, which is costing them

366

1 additional funding just to be able to take an

2 elevator to get to a train. That should not

3 be. We have to look at the way we are

4 offering transportation services to the

5 people in the eastern part of Brooklyn.

6 Then we're looking at -- I'll talk

7 about all my train stations -- Rockaway

8 Parkway Station. You know, the L train

9 begins and ends there, right? For many years

10 we've been asking about the renovation of

11 that station. The Rockaway Parkway Station,

12 if you're standing there and there's a

13 rainstorm, it's like you may as well be

14 standing on the street in the rain. When is

15 that station going to be fixed? The

16 turnstile -- it's congested. Coming from the

17 turnstile, the wait area -- it's not a

18 waiting area, and people are crammed there.

19 It's filthy. It's the -- it's -- just

20 everything about that station has to be

21 looked at.

22 There are many buses also that are

23 leaving from that station. The congestion,

24 it's an accident waiting to happen again. We

367

1 have to look at that Rockaway Parkway

2 Station.

3 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I agree

4 with you. I've been out there.

5 SENATOR PERSAUD: Let me finish with

6 the L train stations.

7 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I agree

8 with you.

9 SENATOR PERSAUD: And then the

10 108th Station, we have to look at that.

11 That, there's only one entrance, one exit.

12 You have to go up multiple stairs to go up

13 and then to come down to get the train. And

14 everyone is doing this (gesturing) to get

15 around each other.

16 It's desolate. And if you know where

17 that station is, it's behind everything else.

18 There was an open landfill that now we're

19 using it for a construction project, which

20 now has brought some light to the area. But

21 other than that, it's a desolate area.

22 The lighting at the station itself is

23 poor. We have a methadone clinic next door

24 to that station. We have people using that

368

1 station -- and I'm constantly calling the

2 police department, because no one is

3 controlling it -- we have people using that

4 station for their drug activity. We have to

5 do something with the East 108th Station,

6 because I do not want another constituent of

7 mine to be hurt at the 108th Station.

8 Thank you.

9 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

10 you. Let me start with Rockaway Parkway,

11 because I agree with you that the station

12 itself needs work.

13 The intermodal transfer between the

14 bus and the station is something that has to

15 be reconfigured. And so I'm asking our

16 engineers to take a look at that in the

17 context of while we're doing all this other

18 work on the L, what we can do for the

19 Rockaway Parkway Station. And we'll take a

20 look at that.

21 And the other points you're raising,

22 I'll take them back and be glad to come out

23 and meet with you about them.

24 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. We didn't --

369

1 we called your office trying to schedule

2 something, and they're just like, Oh -- no

3 one really wants to commit to anything. So

4 could you please ask your staff to commit to

5 something.

6 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I will.

7 Thank you.

8 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you very much.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Assembly?

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

11 No?

12 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: All set.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Anyone else?

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Senate?

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, sorry, then we

16 have an additional Senator, Senator Leroy

17 Comrie, from Queens.

18 SENATOR COMRIE: Good afternoon.

19 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Good

20 afternoon.

21 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you for being

22 here and taking all these --

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Microphone?

24 SENATOR COMRIE: I thought it was on.

370

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay. A little

2 closer, thank you.

3 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. I'll try to

4 talk louder.

5 Thank you for being here and taking

6 all of these it seems like complaints. I

7 might as well add my mine in also.

8 I wanted to just emphasize the -- I

9 understand the Freedom Ticket pilot is

10 launching. I would hope that we have a

11 chance to review opportunities to do

12 increased stops in the 14th Senate District,

13 including especially the Hollis Station, the

14 St. Albans Station.

15 The desire for ridership is up, the

16 desire to save seven hours a week in

17 transportation back and forth to Manhattan is

18 there. I understand that there is available

19 ridership now that could be taken at both the

20 St. Albans Station, the Hollis Station, and

21 the Laurelton Station, because you have cars

22 that are coming into those stations that have

23 room in the morning rush and in the p.m.

24 rush. So I would hope that we can take

371

1 advantage of that right now.

2 I want to thank Hector Garcia, he's

3 Queens rep for the Long Island Railroad. He

4 has been responsive to a degree to making

5 sure that we can get at least some responses

6 to the maintenance repairs that need to be

7 done at the Laurelton Station, the St. Albans

8 Station. He has come out to meetings with

9 the community groups that are involved with

10 it, and we want to make sure that that

11 continues and there's some follow-up.

12 I wanted to talk to you about two

13 major items, which is Belmont Park. Belmont

14 Park touches my district and Senator

15 Phillips' district. We see that there would

16 be a great opportunity there if we could get

17 a 24-hour station there where people could

18 stop -- you know, as you know, Belmont Park

19 has a major parking lot. It would take in a

20 lot of residents from my district, the

21 Queens Village-Bellerose-Hollis-Laurelton

22 area, and a lot of folks from the

23 Valley Stream-Elmont area. There's no reason

24 not to open Belmont Park. When it's open for

372

1 the Belmont Stakes, it has a heavy ridership.

2 And it would be able to sustain that

3 ridership if we could open that up as a

4 full-time Long Island Railroad station.

5 And I haven't heard about that in the

6 capital plan. I would hope that we could do

7 something to make that happen. As you know,

8 there are a lot of opportunities at Belmont

9 Park, and there's a lot of traffic that goes

10 up and down the Cross Island Parkway now.

11 The main thing that I would want to

12 ask you about is the Holban Rail Yards. I'm

13 still getting complaints about the station

14 idling and the trains, for whatever reason,

15 all night they're hitting their sirens or

16 their --

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Which

18 yard is that, I'm sorry?

19 SENATOR COMRIE: Holban Rail Yard.

20 It's along Liberty Avenue in my district.

21 It's your main repair station for your

22 trains. It has both an indoor facility and

23 an outdoor facility. But primarily the

24 outdoor facility, which runs along Dunkirk

373

1 Street on one side, and 180th Street on the

2 other side, is an outdoor facility where they

3 repair the trains. And for whatever reason,

4 all night they're both idling, which is a

5 problem for the area, because we already have

6 high asthma in that area.

7 And the other thing is that when I

8 open my window -- and I'm 20 blocks away from

9 the system -- at night I can hear the -- I

10 guess it's the siren or the train whistle or

11 whatever they want to call it. There's

12 constant train whistles going on even, at

13 4 o'clock or 3 o'clock in the morning when

14 the yard should be empty.

15 So if you could have someone get back

16 to us on that --

17 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM:

18 Absolutely.

19 SENATOR COMRIE: -- and try to figure

20 out exactly what's going on there. You know,

21 because that's been a problem for some time.

22 And again especially the piece that's going

23 on between Dunkirk on one side, 180th Street

24 on the other side, bounded by Liberty and

374

1 Farmers Boulevard on the north and south.

2 It's been irritating my constituents

3 for a while. That's a historic district in

4 Addisleigh Park over there, and they're kind

5 of fed up with it.

6 I appreciate, as I said, everything

7 that has been getting done. Hector Garcia

8 has been responsive as far as getting back to

9 us. But on the details on idling, it's a

10 major problem.

11 And if we could get Belmont up and

12 running, I think that the Long Island

13 Railroad would be pleased at the amount of

14 income that would be coming from there as

15 well. So with that --

16 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: I'll take

17 those issues back.

18 SENATOR COMRIE: That's my partial

19 list. And again, I want to thank Hector for

20 being responsive and I hope that at the end

21 of the day we can get all these problems

22 resolved.

23 Thank you.

24 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

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1 you, Senator.

2 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you for wanting

3 to serve. I know it cannot be easy to get

4 complaints all day, and I appreciate you

5 wanting to stay in service in this way.

6 Thank you.

7 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

8 you.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: We're all set.

11 Thank you so much for being here today.

12 INTERIM EX. DIRECTOR HAKIM: Thank

13 you. Thank you very much.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Truly appreciate

15 your testimony.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Next, the New York

19 State Thruway Authority, Bill Finch, acting

20 executive director.

21 Good afternoon.

22 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Good

23 afternoon.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: And welcome.

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1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Chairperson

2 Young and Chairperson Farrell and members of

3 the Senate and Assembly fiscal and

4 transportation committees, thank you for

5 having me here today. My name is Bill Finch,

6 I'm acting executive director for the

7 New York State Thruway Authority.

8 The Governor Thomas E. Dewey Thruway

9 is a 570-mile superhighway crossing New York

10 State, and is one of the longest toll

11 superhighway systems in the United States.

12 Approximately 250 million vehicles travel

13 more than 8 billion miles on the Thruway each

14 year. In addition to being the principal

15 artery of travel and commerce within New York

16 connecting many of the state's principal

17 cities, the Thruway is a vital link to long

18 distance interstate travel. In addition, the

19 Thruway provides the major route of access

20 for visitors to the state's tourism anchors,

21 including Niagara Falls, the Finger Lakes,

22 the Adirondacks, the Catskills and New York

23 City.

24 I want to begin by recognizing that

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1 the New NY Bridge project, one of the largest

2 and safest bridge projects in the nation, has

3 been and continues to be a national model of

4 design-build construction. I am happy to

5 report that it is on track to open in 2018

6 and is currently on budget at $3.98 billion.

7 In December 2016, Governor Cuomo

8 celebrated the topping off of the eight

9 iconic main towers, a milestone moment. As

10 of January 2017, more than 1,000 piles have

11 been installed in the Hudson River and

12 approximately 90 percent of all the support

13 structures have been put in place. That

14 includes 126 of the massive steel girder

15 assemblies.

16 The 2018 Executive Budget includes a

17 reappropriation of nearly 2 billion from the

18 Special Infrastructure Account for the

19 Thruway Stabilization program. This money

20 will continue to support capital investments

21 including the New NY Bridge and other capital

22 projects throughout the system. We are

23 grateful for this continuing support of the

24 New NY Bridge project and the recognition of

378

1 our system-wide capital needs. This support

2 enables tolls to remain frozen at current

3 levels until at least 2020.

4 The Executive Budget also includes

5 making permanent the Infrastructure

6 Investment Act that is set to expire this

7 year. This proposal will enable the Thruway

8 Authority to continue using design-build

9 contracting, which is a driving force behind

10 the New NY Bridge project.

11 The Executive Budget, in order to

12 ensure that all motorists using the Thruway

13 pay their fair share, includes making the

14 intentional non-payment of tolls "theft of

15 services." It allows DMV to enter into

16 reciprocity agreements with other states and

17 provinces to go after toll scofflaws, and it

18 increases the penalties for obscuring license

19 plates -- a tactic frequently used by toll

20 evaders.

21 The overall 2017 Thruway Authority

22 budget represents a total financial

23 commitment of $1.8 billion. It is a budget

24 that is balanced, provides the necessary

379

1 resources to keep our patrons safe, and

2 maintains our facilities and assets. It

3 maximizes funding for critical infrastructure

4 projects of the Authority's multi-year

5 capital campaign and our comprehensive

6 efforts will improve operations. This budget

7 reflects our long-term commitment to keep the

8 Thruway Authority on a sound fiscal footing.

9 In closing, let me take this

10 opportunity to acknowledge our employees'

11 hard work and dedication and ongoing

12 commitment to the highest standards of safety

13 and reliability in every area of our

14 operation. I'd like to extend special thanks

15 to Canal Corporation Director Brian Stratton,

16 and New York Power Authority President and

17 CEO Gil Quiniones and all of the Canal and

18 Thruway Authority and NYPA employees for

19 working tirelessly to ensure the smooth and

20 efficient transfer of the Canal Corporation.

21 Thanks for your time, and I'd be happy

22 to answer any questions you might have.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you, Director

380

1 Finch, for being here.

2 And as a frequent user of the Thruway

3 and as someone who has the Thruway going

4 through my district in Chautauqua County, I

5 just want to say, number one, thank you, to

6 you and everyone who works for the authority,

7 for everything that you do.

8 I was happy to hear that you

9 referenced the $2 billion that we have passed

10 in the last two budgets, and there's a

11 reapprop this year by the Governor. But --

12 and you reference, I'm all happy to hear you

13 say this, that there's not going to be a toll

14 increase until at least 2020.

15 Does that take into consideration the

16 Tappan Zee Bridge? Because there's a lot of

17 fear around the state that because of the

18 costs related to the Tappan Zee Bridge, that

19 there could be a systemwide toll increase at

20 some point in the near future. You're saying

21 definitively today that that won't happen?

22 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: That will not

23 happen.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.

381

1 When do you think the Thruway

2 Authority will release a financial plan for

3 the new Tappan Zee Bridge project? Including

4 how much bridge tolls might need to increase

5 and when they would increase.

6 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well,

7 currently we have the $1.6 billion of the

8 TIFIA loan, $1.2 billion from the

9 stabilization loan, and $850 million from our

10 own debt, our own borrowing -- which is

11 $3.65 billion on a budget of 3.98. So the

12 shortfall is about $330 million, and we'll be

13 looking at all the traditional sources to

14 fill that gap.

15 In terms of the tolls, Senator,

16 they're frozen until 2020. We have the

17 fiscal ability to handle our expenses, and

18 we're pretty excited about that and the

19 opportunities that it affords our patrons.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

21 Is there a financing that's overdue

22 right now for that project?

23 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Overdue

24 financing?

382

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes. Is it

2 overdue? Was there supposed to be another

3 financing, and is it overdue right at the

4 moment?

5 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Not that I'm

6 aware of. We do have the gap of

7 $330 million, and we'll be looking at

8 traditional borrowing sources to fill that

9 gap.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.

11 What is the status of the New NY

12 Bridge Toll Advisory Task Force that was

13 announced when the Governor brought it

14 forward in late 2015?

15 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: The toll

16 advisory task force has not met, and we don't

17 plan on it meeting since tolls are frozen

18 until 2020. It would be closer to that time

19 that it would meet.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So -- okay, so

21 you're just saying because the tolls are

22 frozen that there's no need for the task

23 force. I see. Could they talk about,

24 potentially, resident and computer discount

383

1 toll programs, though?

2 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, I don't

3 think there's anything off-limits to the

4 Thruway Toll Commission when it convenes.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Well, thank

6 you. But you're saying it won't convene

7 until 2020? Okay, so we won't see any

8 discounts before then either.

9 Please comment on the operational

10 savings and financial improvements that have

11 taken place at the Thruway over the past few

12 years.

13 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, we were

14 encouraged by the Comptroller's study that

15 showed that we had taken some pretty good

16 cost savings, and I think the easiest way to

17 think of this at the Thruway is since 2010,

18 every year our costs have been under a

19 1 percent increase in terms of our cost of

20 operations. So we've been tightening the

21 belt, we've been frugal, and we're going to

22 continue to do that.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Great. Is your

24 fiscal condition stronger today than it was?

384

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: I would say

2 yes. Our revenues are up. We're really

3 excited about the fact that people are

4 choosing the Thruway as this wonderful, safe

5 alternative and our employees are very proud

6 to present that product each and every day.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

8 Director. What's the opinion of the bond

9 rating agencies of the Thruway Authority?

10 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, we

11 haven't been to the market in a little while.

12 The last time we did very well. I do believe

13 there's a minor suggestion in the budget to

14 change the way that we bond that would make

15 it even easier for us to bond. That's in the

16 budget proposal.

17 But the bond rating agencies seem to

18 like us. They seem to like user-driven

19 facilities, user-fee-driven facilities.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Now, you've been

21 using cashless tolling at the Tappan Zee,

22 right?

23 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Yes.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: What's your

385

1 experience there in using that?

2 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, you

3 know, it's new and it took us a while to get

4 used to it. But the social benefits are

5 enormous. People aren't struggling for

6 change, they're not changing lanes -- we have

7 a 60 percent drop, every time toll roads take

8 out a tollbooth, in rear-end collisions.

9 We have a tremendous savings of air

10 pollution, 7800 tons a day of greenhouse

11 gases that we're no longer pumping into the

12 environment. And wait times are about -- 800

13 hours, depending on the size of the toll and

14 the traffic in them, but -- the average

15 tollbooth saves about 800 hours to the

16 patrons.

17 So convenience and everything else has

18 been -- the social benefits have been

19 enormous.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: What are the

21 authority's plans for going to cashless

22 tolling systemwide?

23 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: You know, I

24 think it's certainly part of the future

386

1 that's coming everywhere on toll roads. But

2 we've looked at it, and we have no plans

3 right at the moment. We have that at the

4 Tappan Zee.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Hi. I just would

7 like to ask -- I asked the Transportation

8 commissioner about the I Love NY signs and

9 the numbers that have been installed, and he

10 shared with us the numbers and the cost of

11 that. Do you have the numbers along the

12 Thruway and the cost of those as well?

13 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: I do.

14 And first let me say how excited we

15 were, and our employees were, to participate.

16 You know, everybody at the Thruway is proud

17 of their job, but they're even prouder of the

18 fact that they can help in such a statewide

19 effort where 900,000 jobs of our brothers,

20 sisters, aunts, and uncles are at stake in

21 the tourism industry and where we know that

22 $8 billion of state and local tax revenues

23 comes in. So we were very excited to

24 participate.

387

1 We put 140 signs up. We spent about a

2 half a million dollars on the materials, and

3 the total cost of the project, with

4 installation, labor, excavation and the like,

5 was $2.7 million.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you for that.

7 And I mentioned I happened to be going

8 to Buffalo recently, and I noticed that the

9 posts, not the signs, seemed to be bent or

10 whatever. Have you had a problem with some

11 of those? And is that something -- has that

12 been systemwide, or did it just happen to be

13 those? And is that being corrected or --

14 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: It is being

15 corrected, yes. We had two different types

16 of posts, and it appears to be some kind of a

17 defect with one of the types of posts. But

18 we're on top of it. We're working with the

19 manufacturer, and I think it should be

20 corrected shortly.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

22 The Governor announced in his State of

23 the State that there were going to be a

24 number, I believe 69, of new plug-in electric

388

1 vehicle charging stations along the Thruway.

2 Do you have plans on doing this? And how is

3 that going to be paid for? And is that going

4 to be a public/private cooperative effort

5 or ...

6 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, we're --

7 again, we're really excited about this.

8 Sixty-nine electrical vehicle charging

9 stations will be either at commuter lots or

10 at one of our -- some of our -- all of our 27

11 travel plazas. People pay to fill up, so

12 they pay for the electricity they use to

13 charge up.

14 And currently we're in negotiations

15 with those who do the gas -- they're

16 currently doing the administration of those.

17 We don't actually administer them; we install

18 them, and they manage them. But it will be

19 in our travel plazas and in our commuter

20 lots.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: If you got an

22 updated safety record -- you mentioned about

23 the number of miles and vehicles. Do we have

24 a safety record that's improving, about the

389

1 same, or greater risk recently?

2 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, I know

3 this year was one of our lowest fatality

4 years, but I can certainly get you

5 year-to-year numbers about accidents. But in

6 terms of fatalities, this was one of our

7 lowest.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: You mentioned the

9 canal and the changeover. I'd just like to

10 add my thoughts, as the people who I've

11 spoken with have been very positive about the

12 way that transition that gone.

13 Still -- always challenges with the

14 canal, but as someone who has that going

15 through my district a significant number of

16 miles, again, I appreciate the years that the

17 Thruway ran it. I'm sure your shoulders are

18 higher today maybe that you don't have all

19 that responsibility going forward.

20 But my last comment or question would

21 be -- you've talked about the Tappan Zee and

22 a lot of people entering or going across the

23 Thruway there. At the other end of the

24 Thruway, near the whole area around Buffalo,

390

1 and the fact that we go through tolls, out of

2 that, back into tolls -- and the backups

3 there, plans for Exit 50 or 54 or 55 or

4 whatever it is at the southern end -- are

5 there plans there to help in traffic flow,

6 whether it's cashless, whether it's at-speed

7 lanes or whatever, to help the Western

8 New York traffic?

9 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: As I mentioned

10 to Senator Young, we are looking to the

11 future in terms of tolling, and that is

12 certainly an area that I think would benefit

13 from cashless tolling.

14 It's interesting how many different

15 transitions the Thruway goes through from

16 places like New Rochelle and Yonkers, where

17 it's one point and a fixed charge, to the

18 ticketed system where it's an accumulated fee

19 depending on where and when you exit. And

20 then you go into the free section, then back

21 into a toll section. So that presents a

22 little bit of a difficulty with all those

23 transitions between kinds of systems.

24 But I've been spending a lot of time

391

1 up in that area, it's beautiful, and I hope

2 to keep going back there many times to listen

3 to the local communities. We've met with

4 some of the mayors up there and have had

5 their input and want to continue to listen

6 and learn and see what we can do to help.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you very

8 much.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 Senator Savino.

11 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,

12 Senator Young.

13 I want to -- I just want to ask a

14 question again -- I know Senator Young

15 touched on it, but I'm just not sure I quite

16 understand the answer.

17 In the 2016-'17 budget, we had a side

18 letter that negotiated regarding the Thruway

19 Toll Advisory Task Force, and the side letter

20 stipulated that, among other things, the task

21 force would convene following the enactment

22 of the 2016-'17 budget as well as seek public

23 input and report findings by the end of 2016.

24 And to date, that hasn't happened.

392

1 So the reason, if I understood you

2 correctly in your response to Senator Young,

3 the reason that hasn't happened is because

4 the tolls were frozen, so there's nothing to

5 report.

6 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Exactly.

7 SENATOR SAVINO: But did we in fact

8 convene the task force and they just said

9 there's nothing to report? Did any of the

10 action actually happen? I think that's what

11 I'm trying to say.

12 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: The task force

13 never convened.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Excuse me?

15 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: The task force

16 never convened.

17 SENATOR SAVINO: Oh. Was the task

18 force appointed, though?

19 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: There were

20 members appointed, I believe there were a

21 couple of people who left the task force.

22 Unfortunately, I believe one or two of the

23 members passed away.

24 SENATOR SAVINO: Oh, that's awful.

393

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: So it never

2 was convened.

3 SENATOR SAVINO: Okay. And then on

4 the -- so maybe you can help with this. Even

5 though the Thruway Authority doesn't have --

6 the Thruway doesn't have cashless tolls, you

7 do have high-speed tolls where people can

8 speed through and they don't have to -- and

9 you also don't have arms on your tollbooths,

10 so you have people who go through with

11 E-ZPass.

12 Do you experience a problem with

13 people going through E-ZPass -- going through

14 the high-speed E-ZPass lanes and not paying,

15 and then having to chase them down through

16 third-party collections?

17 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: You know, some

18 people, for their own personal reasons, have

19 always tried to evade paying their fair

20 share. And one of the things I hope you take

21 away from my testimony is we're focused

22 really on two things: safety and fairness.

23 We've got to keep our workers safe, we've got

24 to keep our patrons safe, and we've got to be

394

1 fair.

2 When someone doesn't pay their fair

3 share, then the rest of us have to make up

4 the difference.

5 SENATOR SAVINO: Right.

6 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: So we're

7 focused on that.

8 One of the things in the budget that

9 we're asking for your support is negotiating

10 reciprocity agreements between states and

11 provinces. Because there are people who will

12 try to not pay their fine, and those are the

13 people who didn't have E-ZPass.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Mm-hmm.

15 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: We do have

16 cashless tolls -- just to correct one thing

17 you said, we do have cashless tolls at the

18 Tappan Zee. And it's working very well.

19 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah. The reason I

20 ask is, as you know, we're moving to cashless

21 tolling at all of the MTA bridges and

22 tunnels, and they've implemented them now at

23 the Battery Tunnel, the Midtown Tunnel,

24 they've been moving to the Verrazano Bridge.

395

1 But we're seeing high-profile arrests

2 of people who have not paid their tolls

3 coming across the Port Authority bridges. A

4 woman was caught recently, she had run up

5 $90,000 worth of unpaid tolls at various

6 bridges and tunnels. And I just wonder, how

7 does a person get to that level where they

8 owe $90,000 in tolls?

9 You know, is it -- so I'm going

10 through the tollbooths, I'm not paying, and

11 then what happens? I get a letter in the

12 mail, and then I get another one and another

13 one? Does anybody ever come and attempt to

14 collect that money?

15 So I have this terrible fear that

16 people -- they'll read those stories in the

17 newspaper and say, Well, why should I pay the

18 toll at all? And especially if there's no

19 barriers, I'm just going to drive through,

20 and maybe they'll catch me and maybe they

21 won't. And when they do, I might owe

22 $200,000 worth of tolls.

23 If there's no mechanism to collect it,

24 what are we doing?

396

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: There is a

2 very aggressive method to collect it. And

3 sometimes the stories we hear in the media

4 are the outliers.

5 SENATOR SAVINO: Ninety thousand

6 dollars is a bit of the outlier.

7 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: It is. It's a

8 big outlier.

9 Thankfully most of the people pay

10 their tolls right up front. And we're

11 thankful they do that, because as a

12 user-fee-supported facility that doesn't have

13 to be paid for by taxes in the budget, we're

14 all thankful of that, because it's good to

15 keep that from the budget.

16 But we operate with a collection

17 agency. We have now the threat of

18 registration suspension, which really gets

19 people's attention. That's a good thing, and

20 we appreciate that. And we hope that that's

21 part of the Executive Budget, and we hope

22 that you'll approve.

23 And then reciprocity. Many of the

24 times the people we're talking about are not

397

1 New Yorkers, and we want to make sure that

2 people from other states and other provinces

3 pay their fair share. So reciprocity

4 agreements will help to effect exactly what

5 you're talking about.

6 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Krueger,

8 and then I have a few more questions.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

10 Good afternoon.

11 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Good

12 afternoon, Senator.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: So we're not putting

14 any more general funds into your budget this

15 year, correct?

16 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Correct.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: So that's good news.

18 We did take $2 billion of bank settlement

19 dollars and apply that to the Thruway

20 Authority. So I suppose for the future we

21 can hope the banks continue to violate the

22 law and owe us lots of settlement money, and

23 that would help with our Thruway Authority.

24 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: We certainly

398

1 weren't complaining about the money, thank

2 you.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Would you remind me

4 of a statistic that I think was in last

5 year's testimony? Because it was quite

6 surprising to me at the time of how our

7 cost-per-mile on our Thruway is actually

8 dramatically less than most other areas,

9 either in the same region or around the

10 country.

11 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: We're some of

12 the lowest in the country, at 5 cents per

13 mile for a passenger vehicle and 20 cents for

14 a commercial vehicle.

15 And as I said to Senator Young, we are

16 fiscally conservative in trying our darndest

17 to make sure that our costs don't go up. And

18 since 2010, our costs have risen less than

19 1 percent.

20 SENATOR KRUEGER: How have you done

21 that, only -- less than 1 percent in seven

22 years?

23 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: We have a very

24 dedicated workforce.

399

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So it's not that we

2 found the other money from other places, that

3 your actual cost for doing your work --

4 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Exactly.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- only went up

6 1 percent in seven years.

7 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Mm-hmm.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm impressed. Good

9 for you.

10 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: We like to

11 surprise you.

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Director Finch, I

14 had a couple more questions.

15 I was just looking at a Comptroller

16 report from November, and in that report

17 Comptroller DiNapoli recommended that you

18 develop and implement a long-term capital

19 plan, given that the Thruway Authority's

20 current revenue structure may not be

21 sufficient to cover ongoing and future

22 capital needs.

23 So you said that the position of the

24 Thruway Authority is very strong right now,

400

1 but do you have an operating deficit right

2 now?

3 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: No, we do not.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: You don't. That

5 went away because it was a loss of

6 $227 million in '14, and that was increased

7 from 2010. So you're totally in the black

8 right now?

9 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Yes, we are.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, good.

11 Have you begun developing a long-term

12 capital plan? Because everybody is talking

13 about the Tappan Zee Bridge because that's

14 the big project going on right now, but I can

15 attest to talk about the Thruway going

16 through my district. There are a lot of

17 capital needs, and my office does hear about

18 those from travelers and my constituents.

19 So when you look at the Thruway and

20 its bridges, many of them are over 60 years

21 old, they're probably at the end of their

22 lifespan, and the authority itself estimates

23 that only about 10 percent of the roads and

24 20 percent of the bridges have been replaced

401

1 or thoroughly reconditioned.

2 So -- I think it's your estimate it

3 would cost $13 billion to do all the work

4 that needs to be done just on current needs.

5 And so what's your plan for implementing

6 these projects?

7 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, first

8 off, thank you for the question. What we do

9 is we drill right down to the pavement, and

10 we have an asset management program which is

11 something I am very impressed with. As you

12 know, I'm relatively new and have had a long

13 public service career, but this asset

14 management program at the Thruway Authority

15 gets down to the granular level like I have

16 rarely ever seen before.

17 So we know every inch of our pavement

18 and what condition it's in, and now we're

19 working on the bridge conditions. And you're

20 right to point out that we have an aging

21 infrastructure with roads as old as I am, so

22 we're starting to show wrinkles around the

23 eyes.

24 But we do have good data and we do

402

1 have, I think, a clear vision for the future.

2 That's not to say that it won't be

3 challenging, because I think when Thomas

4 Dewey first had the vision of the bridge --

5 the highway, the Thruway, it was just as

6 daunting. And now we're reaching its useful

7 life, and we're going to have to replace it.

8 So I think you're right to point that out.

9 We're looking at it every day, and I

10 think as time progresses we'll be able to

11 give you a clearer picture of what the future

12 is going to look like. But we do know what

13 our asset situation is, and we'd love to

14 share that with any of you that would like to

15 know more about it, because I think it's

16 something really to be proud of.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

18 Director.

19 And I know that the Legislature would

20 be very interested in seeing a plan, a

21 timeline, how these projects would be funded,

22 what your proposal would be. So we look

23 forward to that. Hopefully it's sometime in

24 the near future.

403

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Thank you,

2 Senator.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Just a few

5 questions.

6 You may have heard me earlier talking

7 about toll elimination. I happen to like the

8 one you have now, I think it's much better.

9 You don't have the problem of people coming

10 from everywhere.

11 But how many of those have you put in,

12 or are you putting in any more than the one

13 you have that I go through coming up from

14 Manhattan?

15 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Just the

16 Tappan Zee Bridge.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: It's just that

18 you've done?

19 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: That's it.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: And you haven't

21 done any others?

22 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: No.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Are you going to do

24 others?

404

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Well, we don't

2 have a specific plan to do it. But as I

3 mentioned, with the great social benefits

4 that it has -- it's sort of the wave of the

5 future. I think in the not too distant

6 future you'll see more electronic tolling,

7 cashless tolling.

8 But I do have a confession to make; I

9 never had an E-ZPass until I took this job.

10 But I, like you, liked to go and talk to a

11 toll collector. So even though I have an

12 E-ZPass, many times I go to talk to the toll

13 collector because that's how I find out

14 what's going on on the Thruway.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Careful. Our

16 grandchildren will say we don't know what's

17 happening, as my daughter tells me every

18 time.

19 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: I went to look

20 at what time it was and -- we don't wear

21 watches anymore, I had to find my cellphone.

22 (Laughter.)

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: That's it?

24 Thank you very much.

405

1 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: Thank you very

2 much --

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 ACTING EX. DIR. FINCH: --

5 Assemblymen, senators.

6 (Discussion off the record.)

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: New York State

8 Association of Town Superintendents of

9 Highways, Michael Boesel, president, 1:30.

10 And also New York State County Highway

11 Superintendents Association, Wayne Bonesteel,

12 Rensselaer County Engineer.

13 And following that will be William

14 Carpenter, then AAA, then PEF. Would you

15 please come down, if you're going to speak to

16 us? Because it takes you 10 minutes to get

17 here, and we could get it faster. Because

18 we're only three hours behind time, not much.

19 Thank you. Good afternoon.

20 MR. MEYER: All right. Good

21 afternoon.

22 Senator Young, Assemblyman Farrell,

23 first of all, I'd like to extend an apology

24 from Michael Boesel, who had a family matter

406

1 that he had to attend to and therefore is

2 unable to be here to present this testimony.

3 However, I am Bernie Meyer, the first

4 vice president of the New York State

5 Association of Town Superintendents of

6 Highways, and I'm from the Town of Canaan.

7 And when the Thruway gave their testimony,

8 they didn't say that the Thruway actually

9 goes into the Massachusetts Turnpike, and

10 that's where we are from, in Canaan. We're a

11 borderline case, that's what I call it.

12 Anyway, with me, representing the

13 New York State County Highway Superintendents

14 Association, is their legislative cochair,

15 Rensselaer County Engineer Wayne E.

16 Bonesteel, P.E., sitting here to my right.

17 We appreciate this opportunity to

18 submit testimony for your consideration as

19 you review the Governor's 2017-2018 Executive

20 Budget. As you know, our collective

21 membership is responsible for ensuring the

22 safe operation of 87 percent of the state's

23 public roads. Let me say that again --

24 87 percent. Mileage numbers, you're probably

407

1 looking around 100,000 miles. Half of it's

2 bridges and plowing, not only our huge

3 system, but also over a quarter of New York

4 State Department of Transportation DOT roads,

5 and that's around another 4,000. So every

6 time there's a winter event, the hardworking

7 men and, I stress, women -- which there are a

8 number of, and doing a great job on our local

9 crews -- ensure New York's drivers get to and

10 from work, home, schools, hospitals, and

11 other destinations safely.

12 We'd like to begin by thanking you and

13 the members of the Legislature for your

14 steadfast support of local roads, bridges,

15 and culverts. And I stress culverts because

16 that's something that's been ignored for a

17 long time. And you were able to get that

18 into the program, so we're very pleased with

19 that, and thanks again.

20 We're pleased that the state adopted a

21 five-year DOT capital plan which included two

22 new programs, PAVE-NY and BRIDGE NY. We

23 understand nearly 500 applications for

24 funding for bridge and culvert projects under

408

1 BRIDGE NY were submitted by the counties,

2 towns, cities, and villages throughout the

3 state.

4 In the Hudson Valley, the value of

5 project applications is five times the

6 $19.5 million available. Upstate aggregate

7 bridge requests came in at more than two

8 times the available $108.7 million, while

9 upstate culvert requests totaled six times

10 the amount available, $20 million statewide.

11 Based on these numbers, the need for

12 additional bridge and culvert funding is

13 justified. The Executive Budget -- we're

14 pleased to see Governor Cuomo's 2017-2018

15 budget funds PAVE-NY at $100 million for the

16 local share of the program. The Executive

17 Budget holds for the fifth year the

18 Consolidated Highway Improvement Program,

19 which is known as CHIPS, base level at

20 $438 million. In 2013, the Legislature

21 championed the last increase of $75 million.

22 CHIPS, as you all know by now, is the

23 financial lifeblood of the local highway

24 department, distributing vital and

409

1 reoccurring state funding, through a formula,

2 to every local government in the state.

3 While providing a reliable base amount of

4 state funding for local roads and bridges,

5 CHIPS funds fall short of what is needed to

6 keep the locally owned ailing and aging

7 transportation system from falling farther

8 into a state of disrepair. The New York

9 State DOT capital plan and Executive Budget

10 freezes the base level for CHIPS at

11 $438 million, and $39.7 million for the

12 Marchiselli portion.

13 While funding for local roads and

14 bridges remains flat in the Governor's

15 Executive Budget, it's imperative to note

16 that the Governor proposes increasing the

17 DOT's capital program spending this fiscal

18 year by $1.16 billion. His budget directs

19 $855 million -- nearly three-quarters of

20 these new funds -- to be spent on three

21 projects in New York City. These three

22 projects will receive more funding in the

23 coming fiscal year than the PAVE-NY and

24 BRIDGE NY programs will distribute to

410

1 87 percent of the state's roads and

2 50 percent of its bridges over four years.

3 We're not here to create a rivalry

4 between different parts of the state, but

5 instead we ask our legislators what basis the

6 state is using to determine how highway and

7 bridge funding are being distributed. Eight

8 percent of DOT's bridges and less than

9 1 percent of its roads are in New York City,

10 yet this year the Executive Budget recommends

11 spending nearly as much in the city as the

12 department would spend on Long Island, the

13 Hudson Valley, and upstate combined.

14 The next segment deals with bridges,

15 and I would like to turn that over to

16 Mr. Bonesteel.

17 MR. BONESTEEL: Thank you, Bernie.

18 According to the DOT's latest annual

19 Highway Pavement and Bridge Condition Report,

20 between 2013 and 2015 an additional 360

21 bridges became deficient, as the number of

22 deficient bridges jumped from 5,542 to 5,902.

23 To be clear, pavement and bridge conditions

24 in our state are getting worse. Every single

411

1 region in this state saw an increase in

2 poorly rated bridges over the last two years.

3 DOT Commissioner Driscoll's home region,

4 Central New York and Region 3, had an

5 additional 48 bridges move from the "good or

6 excellent" to "fair or poor" condition.

7 Bernie has a map here that was taken

8 out of a national publication called Roads

9 and Bridges. It shows the condition of

10 bridges in every state in the United States.

11 And New York, which is orange, is one of the

12 worst states as far as bridge condition

13 ratings.

14 MR. MEYER: We'd be more than happy to

15 pass this around if you'd like to see it in

16 person.

17 It's interesting -- if I may, for a

18 minute -- that even California is in better

19 condition than we are. You do not want to be

20 orange. And you do definitely not want to be

21 red -- that's Massachusetts, they're up to

22 41 percent deficiencies. So New York State,

23 just so you know, ranks between 31 and

24 40 percent in deficiencies in bridges at this

412

1 point.

2 Thank you.

3 MR. BONESTEEL: Again, we ask the

4 Legislature and the Executive to help us

5 better understand the basis for distributing

6 road and bridge maintenance funds.

7 Last year, PAVE-NY was initially

8 thought to be distributed in the same manner

9 as CHIPS, which is formula-driven based on a

10 community's roads, miles, and traffic

11 volumes. The final budget did not follow the

12 CHIPS funding formula for PAVE-NY. The

13 state's 932 towns, which maintain 70 percent

14 of the pavement, received only 29 percent of

15 the PAVE-NY funds, or nearly $32 million less

16 than they would have had the CHIPS formula

17 been used.

18 We request that the Legislature work

19 with the Executive to increase CHIPS by

20 $150 million to an annual appropriation of

21 $588 million. We're also calling for an

22 additional $50 million per year in local

23 funding for BRIDGE NY and a greater amount of

24 the total funding to be allocated to

413

1 culverts. We also request PAVE-NY funds be

2 distributed by a lane mile per-vehicle volume

3 formula.

4 Local systems' needs are great. We

5 have conducted our own needs study of the

6 local transportation system. The analysis

7 determined that, on average, local

8 governments -- excluding New York City --

9 should be spending $2.32 billion annually on

10 their highways and bridges. Currently these

11 municipalities spend about $1 billion

12 annually on these facilities, leaving an

13 annual shortfall of $1.32 billion.

14 And let me conclude by saying that in

15 previous years, even in tough economic times,

16 the Legislature has responded to the dire

17 conditions of the state's transportation

18 systems and augmented CHIPS and other local

19 transportation funding. But more is required

20 to reverse the deteriorating conditions of

21 our local transportation systems and make

22 significant progress in its rehabilitation.

23 We are urging support for a

24 significant increase for the CHIPS program to

414

1 help all municipalities in the state extend

2 the life of our assets and maintain our vast

3 system in an adequately funded BRIDGE NY

4 program that could continue to provide direct

5 funding to local governments and add

6 flexibility needed to address local

7 conditions.

8 Our associations and the mutual

9 constituencies and communities we serve

10 appreciate the support of our state elected

11 officials who partner with us to ensure that

12 we all get the job done when it comes to

13 providing the public with a safe and

14 functional statewide transportation system,

15 one that supports jobs and economic growth

16 for our communities.

17 We look forward to continuing working

18 with you to make more state funding and

19 resources available to meet the critical

20 needs of our local transportation systems.

21 Thank you. Are there any questions?

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

23 Assemblyman.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes. First of all,

415

1 thank you for your testimony and for the work

2 that you and your members do to keep the

3 roads that we travel on, those local roads,

4 safe and in the best condition that they can

5 be.

6 You pointed out a number of things.

7 Actually, I did -- you mentioned the issue of

8 the PAVE-NY money and how that is

9 distributed. I actually did bring that up to

10 the commissioner this morning, and he did

11 respond that they would take a look at it.

12 Of course, that is developed in

13 conjunction with negotiations as well as -- I

14 believe -- so thank you for pointing that

15 out. And hopefully they will take that to

16 heart as we go forward in figuring out how

17 those funds are distributed.

18 The information that you gave

19 concerning the number of bridges, that we're

20 falling further behind -- in the description,

21 as we could see in the map -- obviously is of

22 concern. And I think we're pleased that at

23 least there is an effort toward the BRIDGE NY

24 program and in other efforts, but I think

416

1 pointing that out just shows that current

2 efforts are appreciated, but we continue to

3 have more required.

4 But again, thank you for your efforts

5 and your testimony today.

6 MR. MEYER: Thank you.

7 MR. BONESTEEL: Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

10 gentlemen, for being here.

11 And I have to echo something

12 Assemblywoman -- Assemblyman, sorry. It's

13 been a long day. Denny says I'm sitting near

14 him too much.

15 But I did want to first of all say how

16 grateful we are to the highway

17 superintendents for all the great work that

18 you do. I know that you're on call 24/7

19 during all kinds of weather, and also I know

20 that you perform miracles with the money that

21 you get, because you have to really stretch

22 budgets. So we truly are very, very thankful

23 for everything that you do.

24 But I'm just curious, because the

417

1 language in the final budget and the Senate

2 push for this had PAVE-NY funding going out

3 as the same formula as CHIPS. So why do you

4 not believe -- because we verified it before

5 the hearing today, that that's what happened.

6 But why do you feel that that did not happen?

7 It's BRIDGE NY that you couldn't get the

8 formula on, but PAVE-NY is on the same

9 formula as the CHIPS program.

10 MR. BONESTEEL: My understanding is

11 that PAVE-NY funds is being distributed

12 through CHIPS but not using the CHIPS

13 formula. Basically, when they took that

14 allocation of $100 million, they took a

15 percentage based on how much of each

16 municipality gets in CHIPS and then just used

17 that percentage to figure their PAVE-NY

18 allotment.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So my analyst sits

20 behind me, and she said that it was based on

21 the formula. Because whatever percentage you

22 got out of the 438, then you got that same

23 percentage out of the $100 million. So

24 you're saying that's an issue?

418

1 MR. BONESTEEL: It was mostly an issue

2 with the towns and their distribution of

3 PAVE-NY funds. Because they just used a

4 percentage, just used the percentage of what

5 they got in CHIPS compared to the entire

6 CHIPS pot, and then just applied that to the

7 $100 million for PAVE-NY.

8 MR. MEYER: The fair, equitable way to

9 distribute any money throughout the entire

10 state is by using the CHIPS formula. It's a

11 very complicated formula -- and it seems to

12 work, though. So the thing is, you have to

13 give it a lot of credit. And as long as

14 something works, why don't we just use it for

15 the distribution of these funds.

16 There was quite an anxious time in the

17 beginning when PAVE-NY was even to begin.

18 There was no way to find out how it was going

19 to be paid, what the criteria was for

20 proceeding with the, shall we say,

21 reimbursable money, for the simple reason

22 that CHIPS also has a very onerous

23 reimbursement segment to it, where you have

24 to prove where you get the materials, how it

419

1 was paid for, how it was delivered -- who,

2 what, when, where, cancelled checks, the

3 whole nine yards. I mean, it's a very

4 onerous program.

5 But it's a fair program. So that's

6 why we wanted it to make sure that it goes

7 through CHIPS channels, if you will, and

8 follows the same protocol.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So again -- and

10 maybe we need to talk offline about this --

11 but if the funding percentages are based on

12 the amounts that you get through CHIPS, how

13 is that different for PAVE-NY? If all the

14 formula is gone through -- and as you said,

15 it's very rigorous and has a lot of

16 details -- if you get a certain percentage of

17 funding from the CHIPS program, and let's say

18 it's whatever it is, but you get the same

19 amount from the PAVE-NY program using the

20 same criteria -- I guess I'm not

21 understanding why you believe that you didn't

22 get the same funding percentages as the CHIPS

23 program.

24 MR. BONESTEEL: Because, like Bernie

420

1 said, the CHIPS formula itself is a

2 complicated formula that's more than just

3 based on how many roads you have. There's

4 other factors involved.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Right.

6 MR. BONESTEEL: And if you just go

7 with a straight percentage, you're not

8 putting all the factors into the formula for

9 each municipality, and the numbers come up

10 different.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Well, we'll be glad

12 to look into that for you, okay?

13 MR. BONESTEEL: Okay.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So thank you for

15 your testimony.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

17 MR. BONESTEEL: Thank you.

18 MR. MEYER: Thank you very much.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: New York Public

20 Transit Association, William Carpenter,

21 president and CEO, Regional Transit Services.

22 After that will be AAA, Alec Slatky.

23 And after, Paul Gendron and Karen Patterson.

24 MR. CARPENTER: Thank you, Chairman

421

1 Farrell and Chairwoman Young, for giving the

2 New York Public Transit Association the

3 opportunity to testify today on Governor

4 Cuomo's 2017-'18 Executive Budget.

5 My name is Bill Carpenter. I am the

6 chief executive officer for the

7 Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation

8 Authority and the president of the state

9 association.

10 It's clear, listening to the questions

11 you gave others who came here before me, that

12 you understand the public transit needs;

13 therefore, I'll provide a summary of my

14 testimony.

15 I want to begin by expressing my

16 sincere appreciation from all of us in the

17 transit industry for your support of public

18 transportation and the unprecedented level of

19 funding included in the five-year capital

20 programs approved last year for the MTA and

21 for all the other transit systems. The good

22 news for us is that the Governor's 2017-'18

23 Executive Budget has that provided, and we're

24 grateful.

422

1 But the budget provides no increase in

2 state operating aid. Flat operating aid,

3 quite frankly, is really a cut, because wage

4 and health benefit costs do increase for our

5 employees. The lack of growth in state aid

6 will cause many systems to divert funding

7 that was intended for capital in order to

8 cover operating expenses, and that is not a

9 sustainable strategy for the future. It will

10 deprive systems of badly needed

11 infrastructure funding and negate the

12 benefits of the capital improvements

13 anticipated from the five-year plan.

14 Predictable growth in operating support is

15 necessary for transit systems to continue

16 essential services that are so important to

17 millions of New Yorkers.

18 NYPTA is requesting that a 2 percent

19 across-the-board increase in STOA to help

20 preserve existing transit services be

21 considered by the Legislature. At the same

22 time the Executive Budget proposes flat

23 operating aid, transit ridership is rising in

24 many areas of the state and both the public

423

1 and businesses are demanding more and better

2 service. The reviving economy, growth in

3 ridership, and changing travel markets are

4 placing new demands on transit to access new

5 job locations, address changing travel

6 patterns, and meet the travel needs of

7 millennials and a growing senior population.

8 Communities across upstate and

9 downstate have demands for more services that

10 cannot be met with existing resources. We've

11 compiled a list of these increased demands in

12 our brochure, Grow NY Transit.

13 For example, in my home area of

14 Rochester, more service is needed to support

15 the growth in our local community college,

16 MCC. RIT. An employer like Maximus, with

17 2500 employees on a transit line that's

18 requiring us to add more and more service

19 Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays in order to

20 meet the needs for a growing economy. But we

21 don't have the additional funding to support

22 it.

23 Therefore, we're asking for an

24 additional investment of $15 million in state

424

1 operating aid for upstate and downstate

2 suburban systems be added to support the

3 economic expansion our state is seeing.

4 There are sufficient balances and

5 transit-dedicated funds to allow increases in

6 state mass transit operating aid.

7 On another topic, many of our rural

8 and small city transit systems are struggling

9 to maintain basic services as a result of the

10 state's change in the way Medicaid

11 transportation is arranged. The impact of

12 lost Medicaid ridership and revenue has

13 resulted in service reductions to the public

14 and is threatening the viability of

15 transportation to those who need it most.

16 NYPTA recommends continuation of

17 transition aid from the Department of Health

18 that last year was at $4 million -- but with

19 additional counties now impacted, we ask that

20 $5 million be included for transitional aid.

21 We also ask that New York State DOT and

22 New York State Department of Health study the

23 full financial and service impacts on rural

24 transit systems of the state's Medicaid

425

1 changes and prepare recommendations to

2 preserve vital rural transit services.

3 Regarding transportation network

4 companies, NYPTA supports legislation to

5 allow TNCs to operate outside New York City,

6 with proper safeguards, and dedicate a

7 portion of any new state revenues to support

8 transit in the local area. We also recommend

9 that any new transit revenues be allocated to

10 transit systems by formula.

11 Increased investment in transit will

12 result in better service, more cost-effective

13 delivery, and support thousands of jobs for

14 the state's transit manufacturers and

15 suppliers.

16 The growing popularity of transit

17 across the state is why we are asking for an

18 appropriate state investment. NYPTA is

19 committed to working alongside the Governor

20 and the Legislature to ensure that New York

21 State transit systems can meet the demands

22 for service and support sustainable economic

23 growth in our communities.

24 Thank you.

426

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Are you testifying

4 also?

5 MR. CARPENTER: This is our New York

6 Public Transit Association policy analyst,

7 Bob Zerillo, and all the tough questions go

8 to him.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Do you have

10 questions?

11 Well, thank you, Mr. Carpenter, for

12 being here today. We truly appreciate it --

13 and both of you.

14 And as you know, Bill, my district

15 stretches from about 10 miles outside of

16 Erie, Pennsylvania, to the borders of Monroe

17 County, and so this is an issue that's of

18 very great importance to some of my

19 constituents, and certainly to people in

20 Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and so on.

21 You heard me, I believe, speak to the

22 commissioner of DOT today about your issues,

23 and I asked him if there were structural

24 imbalances regarding your systems versus the

427

1 rest of the transit systems around the state,

2 and he admitted that there was. Did you hear

3 what he said in response to that? He said

4 that mistakes were made when you were set up.

5 So could you address what he said?

6 PRESIDENT CARPENTER: What the state

7 association feels needs to be done is the

8 underlying funding sources do not generate

9 the revenues today based on changing

10 industries and the economics of those

11 industries, so that the funding that was

12 dedicated for non-MTA transit systems is

13 virtually stagnant over the last number of

14 years. Those funds are then distributed

15 through a state operating aid formula without

16 General Fund support.

17 We're not able to grow the systems

18 across the state. Last year the Legislature

19 worked with the Executive and found

20 additional General Fund money. This year

21 they're using state dedicated funds,

22 displacing $5 million from the General Fund.

23 That $5 million in the General Fund, if it

24 was put back into funding for us, would

428

1 represent a 1 percent increase for non-MTA

2 transit systems, essentially half of what our

3 ask is if the General Fund investment was

4 left the same as last year.

5 But overall, the underlying revenues

6 need to be reviewed. I believe the

7 Legislature asked for that last year. I

8 heard the commissioner say he would be

9 willing to come to the table, and certainly

10 the state association would be willing to

11 work together to find something that works

12 for all New Yorkers.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I think we should

14 do that. I think we should follow up on that

15 and try to get everybody at the table

16 because, as I said, we need partners and the

17 Legislature did push hard last year.

18 So your ask for this year is

19 $10 million, which would be equivalent to a

20 2 percent increase.

21 MR. CARPENTER: That's correct.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for being

429

1 here.

2 MR. CARPENTER: Thank you very much.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Alec Slatky, policy

4 analyst, AAA.

5 MR. SLATKY: Good afternoon, everyone.

6 My name is Alec Slatky. I'm here testifying

7 on behalf of AAA New York State, which is an

8 association of the four independent AAA clubs

9 in New York collectively serving over

10 2.7 million members.

11 I want to thank all the Senators and

12 Assemblymembers who are sticking around and,

13 of course, all the staff who made this

14 possible.

15 And I wanted to submit this testimony

16 in support of a couple of provisions for

17 traffic safety in Part L of the TED bill

18 particularly relating to seat belts, drunk

19 driving, and distracted driving. And I just

20 want to turn our attention for a minute to

21 seat belts.

22 So this provision that's in the budget

23 would amend the VTL to require adults 16 and

24 over in the back seat of a motor vehicle to

430

1 wear seat belts. Currently that's not the

2 case.

3 And we were once a leader in occupant

4 protection. Back in 1984, New York passed

5 the first seat belt law in the country, and

6 it's been one of the biggest public health

7 successes in the 20th century, I would say.

8 Over 330,000 lives have been saved by seat

9 belts since then. And today 28 states and

10 the District of Columbia require back-seat

11 passengers who are over 16 to wear seat

12 belts, but not New York.

13 And obviously we'd like to change

14 that, because we know proper restraints

15 improve safety outcomes for all vehicle

16 occupants, regardless of age, regardless of

17 seating position. If you're not belted in,

18 you're three times more likely to be killed,

19 eight times more likely to be seriously

20 injured. And we've seen great campaigns from

21 state agencies and local police departments

22 that have helped bring our front seat belt

23 use up to an all-time high. But in the back

24 seat, we actually lag behind the nationwide

431

1 average.

2 And last year, AAA in New York State

3 released a report that analyzed fatal crashes

4 in New York between 1995 and 2014 -- that was

5 what was available online -- but it's a

6 20-year period. And in that 20 years, there

7 were 886 fatalities to adults in the back

8 seat, 16 and over, who were not buckled in.

9 That's 44 per year. And at least one such

10 fatality occurred in each of New York's 62

11 counties.

12 And I want to turn your attention just

13 for a moment to the first chart on page 3, if

14 you would. To the folks in the audience, I

15 guess you'll have to play along.

16 What's clear from this chart is that

17 the fatalities and the danger is concentrated

18 among the youngest adults and the oldest

19 teenagers -- I guess it depends on which way

20 you look at it. There's a huge spike right

21 at 16 years old in the number of fatalities

22 in the back for unrestrained passengers, and

23 that's due to the lower restraint use among

24 that population. And that's all

432

1 crystal-clear in the data, and you can really

2 see it especially right at the age of 16.

3 If you take 13-to-15-year-olds, they

4 had 57 fatalities over the 20-year period;

5 16-to-18-year-olds had 221. That's a quarter

6 of all of the fatalities for adults 16 and

7 over, suffered just by that three-year

8 period. And it doesn't make sense that the

9 age when children are least likely to wear a

10 seat belt, most likely to be injured as a

11 result, would be the age when we remove that

12 seat belt requirement.

13 But it's not just the teenagers that

14 are at risk. We had a couple of tragic

15 incidents within the past few years. Bob

16 Simon, the 60 Minutes correspondent, was

17 killed in the back seat of a vehicle; he

18 wasn't wearing a seat belt. John Nash and

19 his wife -- John Nash, the famous math

20 professor from "A Beautiful Mind," he was

21 also killed in the back seat of a vehicle --

22 not in New York, on the Jersey Turnpike

23 nearby -- and he was not wearing a seat belt

24 either.

433

1 So these are preventable injuries.

2 And it's not just a danger to the people who

3 are not wearing a seat belt, it's a danger to

4 everyone else in the car and everyone else on

5 the road -- because if you're not wearing a

6 seat belt in the back, you're twice as likely

7 to become a projectile, kill someone in the

8 front.

9 I like to say, you know, if you have a

10 15-pound bowling ball, you're returning from

11 the alley, don't put it in the middle of the

12 back seat. Because if you slam on the

13 brakes, that's going to come up with a lot of

14 momentum. I mean, I don't remember my high

15 school physics, but it's going to be a lot.

16 It's better to put it in the trunk or below

17 the seat.

18 Now, take that 15-pound bowling ball,

19 it's now a 150-pound human -- obviously, a

20 lot more dangerous.

21 And it's dangerous to everyone else on

22 the road, because 44 percent of those

23 fatalities were either full or partial

24 ejections. That poses obvious risks to other

434

1 road users. And we know states with belt

2 laws have consistently higher rates of usage

3 in the back seat.

4 And just one last thing -- I'll focus

5 only on the seat belts then -- we did a poll

6 of about 800 drivers in New York, both AAA

7 members and nonmembers, and over two-thirds

8 supported extending the seat belt requirement

9 to adults in the back seat, 16 and over.

10 That was true across demographic lines, that

11 was true across geographic lines,

12 upstate/downstate -- I used MTA counties to

13 define my upstate and downstate, I know

14 sometimes that's a point of contention.

15 There was over two-thirds support in each of

16 those cases.

17 So I would certainly urge everyone up

18 here and the rest of the legislators to

19 support a rear-seat belt law for adults.

20 Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

22 Questions?

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

24 I'm sorry, I had to walk out for a few

435

1 minutes, but I had referenced a AAA report

2 earlier today --

3 MR. SLATKY: Yeah, I saw that. I

4 appreciated that.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- with the DMV

6 commissioner. And I'm just curious, so one

7 of my questions to her was are there models

8 to do better education of millennials about

9 both what the rules of the road are and

10 actually how to get through to them that -- I

11 think the most disturbing thing I saw from

12 your report was that 90 percent don't care

13 that they're breaking the law. That they

14 know it, they don't care. So these are

15 really very dangerous violations that they're

16 committing.

17 MR. SLATKY: Yeah, I mean in terms of

18 education, I think there's lots that can be

19 done. I know the state is working on a task

20 force to develop a standardized curriculum

21 for driver's education throughout the state,

22 of which I'm a part. So that work continues.

23 But I think ultimately, a lot of

24 times, like you said, it comes down to

436

1 enforcement. Because if you know it's bad

2 and you don't care and you do it -- you can

3 educate all you want, but at a certain point

4 you need that disincentive of a ticket to

5 really make you change your behavior, I

6 think, more than anything else.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: What's AAA's

8 position on red-light cameras and speed

9 cameras?

10 MR. SLATKY: We have always supported

11 red-light cameras throughout the state. And

12 they can be operated well, they can be

13 operated not so well, but in general we

14 support them provided that you have adequate

15 protections to ensure that it's operating

16 fairly and that it's operating transparently.

17 And of course, most importantly, that it's

18 actually reducing crashes.

19 And I think the same goes for the

20 schools' own speed cameras that we have in

21 New York City. Obviously, in Nassau County

22 it didn't work out so well, because it seemed

23 like it was being used mostly for revenue

24 generation.

437

1 But, you know, we wrote on the law a

2 couple of years ago when it was being

3 expanded, and we said we generally support

4 it, we would have liked to see a couple more

5 transparency provisions in the law. I know

6 there's a mandatory report that I think

7 didn't have a due date.

8 But overall, we support both of those.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: And the task force

10 you're on for improved driver safety

11 training, does that task force actually exist

12 and meet? Because a bunch of the others

13 didn't --

14 MR. SLATKY: Yeah. Oh, I've been

15 there.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, okay.

17 MR. SLATKY: Yes, it does exist.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

19 Thank you.

20 MR. SLATKY: Driver Education Resource

21 Innovation Center. DERIC, D-E-R-I-C. I

22 forget the acronym sometimes.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Savino.

24 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,

438

1 Senator Young.

2 I want to follow up on the distracted

3 driving issue that Senator Krueger was

4 talking about, particularly texting. I have

5 serious concerns about it. I think texting

6 while driving is more dangerous than drunk

7 driving, because at least if you're drunk

8 you're still looking at the road. Texting,

9 you're not.

10 But I know the Governor has a proposal

11 to add texting while you're stopped at a red

12 light. I'm just somewhat concerned about

13 enforcement on that. But I was wondering,

14 has AAA looked at that as one of -- I believe

15 one of the things that's contributing to

16 traffic congestion and delayed traffic,

17 particularly at lights, is people, when they

18 stop at a light, pick up their phone

19 automatically, and they start texting. And

20 they don't notice that the light changes.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Mm-hmm.

22 SENATOR SAVINO: And that has a

23 chain -- she's mm-hmming behind me -- it's

24 actually having a chain reaction behind -- so

439

1 you have the first aggressive behavior from

2 drivers who then hit their horn to let you

3 know, but it's also slowing down traffic and

4 we're seeing increased congestion as a result

5 of it.

6 Has AAA looked at the effect of

7 texting at stoplights and stop signs, and the

8 effect that it's having on the flow of

9 traffic?

10 MR. SLATKY: I don't know if we've

11 looked at the congestion in a rigorous

12 fashion. I mean, obviously you're so right

13 about texting. We know it's pretty much the

14 worst distraction. It's really the trifecta

15 because your eyes are off the road, your

16 hands are off the wheel, and your mind is off

17 the driving task.

18 But -- I didn't get to it, it's also

19 in the testimony -- we do support prohibiting

20 texting at red lights, which is in the

21 Governor's budget. And I think that's one of

22 the reasons that we do so. Not even just

23 because of the congestion, but -- and I'm

24 sure everyone here sees it -- when someone is

440

1 texting, the guy behind them sees the green

2 light, toots the horn -- at least that's how

3 it is in New York City and Long Island, where

4 I'm from. Maybe upstate people are a little

5 bit friendlier.

6 But as soon as that light turns green,

7 people honk the horn and then the person who

8 has the phone in their hand, they just drop

9 it and go, without actually looking to see if

10 there's a car there or if there's a

11 pedestrian that's still there.

12 So I think there are multiple reasons

13 why we support it. The analysis that we've

14 done in terms of our AAA Foundation for

15 Traffic Safety shows that the distraction

16 doesn't actually end when you put the phone

17 down. Your reaction time is actually

18 inhibited for up to 27 seconds after the

19 distracting behavior ends. So even if you do

20 pick the phone up at a red light and put it

21 down before the light turns green, your mind

22 is still not quite recovered from that

23 distracting behavior.

24 SENATOR SAVINO: What about, you know,

441

1 the newer cars -- I have a 2014 Equinox and

2 so, you know, I have Bluetooth compatibility

3 and my phone connects to it, the minute I get

4 anywhere near the car. But my text messages

5 come up on the screen. And you press a

6 button, and it reads to you. So this woman

7 in my car reads me a text message. And

8 there's preselected replies, you can press

9 "Reply" -- "I'm driving, I can't speak,"

10 "Call me," et cetera.

11 Have you guys looked at that, the

12 effect of that on distracted driving? Or is

13 there any push to get more manufacturers to

14 have that available in their cars so that

15 people don't text? You have that -- you

16 know, you can just press that button and let

17 someone know that you're driving and that you

18 can't engage in a text discussion, that they

19 should call you. Or that you don't want to

20 have a conversation with them. Do we see

21 that maybe that will become the solution as

22 more vehicles become equipped this way?

23 MR. SLATKY: We have done studies on

24 this, and I will say that what you're talking

442

1 about is kind of a double-edged sword.

2 Because it's certainly good to get people's

3 heads up and not in their laps on the phone.

4 SENATOR SAVINO: Right.

5 MR. SLATKY: At the same time, the

6 research that we've done, our Foundation for

7 Traffic Safety, in conjunction with Dr. David

8 Strayer at the University of Utah, it

9 basically finds that hands-free is not

10 risk-free.

11 So the cognitive distraction is pretty

12 much the same -- let's say you're talking on

13 a hand-held phone or you're talking on a

14 hands-free phone, Bluetooth or through the

15 car's infotainment system. That is going to

16 distract you either way.

17 And so our message to people is

18 always: Put the phone down, a hundred

19 percent of the time. Of course, it's hard,

20 you can't enforce a hands-free ban --

21 SENATOR SAVINO: I think the horse is

22 out of that barn.

23 MR. SLATKY: Yeah.

24 SENATOR SAVINO: I don't think we're

443

1 going to get people to ever go back to the

2 point where they don't use a phone while

3 they're driving. So I think to the extent

4 that we can keep them with their hands on the

5 wheel -- and not on the phone, and not doing

6 something with the other hand, and not having

7 to look at it -- is probably the best that

8 we're going to accomplish.

9 MR. SLATKY: Yes.

10 SENATOR SAVINO: I just -- my own -- I

11 just can't see us going back to the days

12 where you have to pull over to make a phone

13 call. I just -- I think that's -- we're

14 beyond that.

15 MR. SLATKY: I mean, I think that the

16 numbers from our Traffic Safety Culture Index

17 kind of show that, that 70 percent of people

18 report making a phone call within the last

19 30 days.

20 Obviously, you know, we still want to

21 be there as the ones to say it's still not

22 safe. But in fairness, what we've done is,

23 in conjunction with those studies, we've

24 talked to some of the manufacturers to look

444

1 at the way their infotainment system is set

2 up, because there are different systems.

3 Like let's say you want to change your radio

4 station. And I would say I want to turn to

5 104.3, the classic rock station back in

6 New York. That might not be accepted under

7 some systems, and it might under other

8 systems. Some might say you have to say

9 "Q-1-0-4 point 3," and that's the only way it

10 works. And some have a little bit more

11 leeway.

12 And when there's more leeway, there's

13 less distraction, because there's less

14 frustration with mistakes or, you know,

15 failure to understand what you're saying. So

16 we've worked with the manufacturers to try to

17 get them to design those systems in a manner

18 that will reduce distractions as much as

19 possible.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

21 MR. SLATKY: Thanks.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you so much

24 for being here.

445

1 MR. SLATKY: Thank you for having me.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Paul Gendron,

3 professional engineer, PEF. And Karen

4 Patterson, assistant engineer.

5 MR. GENDRON: Good afternoon. My name

6 is Paul Gendron, of the New York State Public

7 Employees Federation. I'm an executive board

8 member from Binghamton and the chairman of

9 our statewide Department of Transportation

10 Labor Management Committee. I have over 23

11 years of experience at DOT, including 17

12 years as a professional engineer.

13 With me today is Karen Patterson, from

14 Hornell. Karen is the vice chairman of our

15 statewide DOT Labor Management Committee and

16 has 27 years of experience in the

17 construction, design, and operations groups.

18 I want to thank you for the

19 opportunity to address DOT issues in the

20 2017-2018 proposed budget. PEF represents

21 over 3800 employees in the DOT. Their

22 primary responsibility is to keep the

23 infrastructure safe for the traveling public.

24 DOT funding is increased in the

446

1 proposed budget. All funds have increased by

2 $750 million, about 6.6 percent of all funds.

3 Since PEF members are on the front line in

4 determining transportation needs and spending

5 these funds wisely, we applaud this

6 commitment to an increased capital program.

7 At the federal level, an additional

8 future 10-year investment of $1 trillion

9 nationwide is being considered on top of an

10 approved federal authorization through

11 federal fiscal year 2020. An influx of

12 federal money will also require additional

13 administration by experienced state

14 employees.

15 While increases in funding is a

16 welcome relief, utilization of these funds

17 needs to be carefully monitored. Multiple

18 studies have shown in-house, experienced DOT

19 employees produce better projects for lower

20 cost.

21 I'd like to talk a little bit about

22 design-build. Two alternative methods for

23 funding capital projects for the public

24 sector have been touted in recent years, but

447

1 both design-build and public-private

2 partnerships have a checkered history in our

3 country.

4 In Part P of the Transportation

5 Article VII legislation, design-build is

6 proposed to be made permanent and expanded to

7 all agencies and authorities. This would

8 expand the current two-year pilot program

9 that was created under Chapter 60 of the Laws

10 of 2015. The current legislation allows

11 design-build procurement for five agencies.

12 PEF has multiple concerns.

13 Design-build allows one contractor to design,

14 construct, and inspect the entire project

15 instead of the traditional design-bid-build

16 procurement method, which allows for a

17 separation between designer and builder.

18 This results, among other things, in the loss

19 of checks and balances and the continued

20 erosion of professional public employees'

21 skills and knowledge. It puts the public at

22 risk, bypassing competitive bidding laws,

23 labor protection and other safeguards that

24 ensure transparency, fairness, and impartial

448

1 oversight.

2 When a design-build contract is let,

3 only 30 percent of the design phase has been

4 completed. With greater risk to the

5 design-build contractor comes greater cost.

6 Also increasing costs are procurement

7 procedures and additional administrative

8 oversight. In design-bid-build procurement,

9 this cost would not be expended with in-house

10 design.

11 DOT is the infrastructure owner and

12 has a greater stake in a quality product. It

13 is important that DOT employees inspect these

14 projects to ensure proper quality of

15 construction and safety of the construction

16 workforce and the public. DOT employees live

17 in the areas where they work. They have not

18 only an ownership stake due to their

19 employment with DOT, but they are also

20 taxpaying citizens in the areas in which

21 these projects are built. They probably have

22 family members who travel on those same roads

23 and bridges.

24 Consultant inspection firms for

449

1 design-build projects typically employ people

2 who live far away from the finished product

3 and have no local accountability.

4 Non-conformance reports prepared by DOT

5 quality assurance staff on projects are not

6 treated seriously. There have been reports

7 of inspectors hired by these consultant firms

8 telling state forces they work for the

9 contractor, not the state, when the single

10 state engineer assigned to quality assurance

11 would question compliance with standards or

12 specifications.

13 One pro-design-build claim is that the

14 contractor can use innovation to save money.

15 But the DOT has used this procurement method

16 for routine, non-emergency projects, rather

17 than for innovative or immediate need

18 projects. When multiple small work sites are

19 bundled -- for example, deck replacements or

20 bridge superstructure replacements, where the

21 only feasible option is to replace in-kind --

22 there is no opportunity for innovation, thus

23 creating added cost with no added benefit.

24 Examples of this include two bridges,

450

1 one that was measured 35 foot long that had a

2 superstructure replaced, and another 20 foot

3 long that was replaced in its entirety under

4 a design-build process.

5 Larger, bundled design-build projects

6 also hurt local economies. Both of the

7 bridges would traditionally have been simple

8 design-bid-build contracts. These contracts

9 would have employed local contractors and

10 used existing DOT engineering staff to design

11 and inspect the construction. But the

12 design-build process makes it impossible for

13 smaller, local companies to bid. Typically

14 these contracts are awarded to larger,

15 out-of-state firms.

16 Lastly, the proposed minimum threshold

17 in this year's budget to allow design-build

18 of $1.2 million is unrealistic. This low

19 threshold is what has allowed design-build

20 projects to be built with minimal opportunity

21 for innovative cost savings.

22 A design-build report was produced in

23 the fall of 2015 by the Empire State

24 Development Corporation summarizing the five

451

1 projects progressed under Chapter 60 of the

2 Laws of 2015. None of the five projects have

3 been completed yet. In fact, three of the

4 five projects have a "to be determined"

5 best-value cost.

6 No permanent law should be in place

7 until a complete review of design-build

8 projects under the Laws of 2015 can be

9 completed. Such a review should be conducted

10 by the State Comptroller, as has been done in

11 the past by previous comptrollers.

12 Also, it was recently announced the

13 replacement of the Tappan Zee Bridge will be

14 completed in 2018. Waiting until a full

15 accounting of this first New York

16 mega-project before making final decisions is

17 a prudent course.

18 I just want to mention public-private

19 partnerships briefly. P3s have been

20 discussed as funding mechanisms at the

21 federal level. These projects also have a

22 checkered history in our country. The

23 disastrous Chicago Parking Meters, Chicago

24 Skyway, Indiana I-90, and Pocahontas Parkway

452

1 in Virginia are just some of the examples of

2 P3s that have negative and long-lasting

3 effects on public transportation. They

4 provide taxpayer subsidies in the form of

5 guaranteed profits for corporations that have

6 failed to deliver positive results of reduced

7 costs to the public.

8 When for-profit investors take over

9 public service facilities, it must be

10 remembered that every dollar that is put into

11 a private corporation's balance sheet is a

12 dollar that can't be spent on additional

13 public service or safety.

14 DOT staffing. The most cost-effective

15 highway and bridge design, bridge inspection,

16 and construction inspection services are

17 provided by the in-house DOT professionals.

18 Additional valuable services are bus and

19 truck inspections and other safety sensitive

20 work.

21 This year's budget calls for increases

22 in the design and construction program of

23 86 full-time-equivalents, for a proposed

24 total of 2,594, while maintaining all other

453

1 program levels at their current amount. This

2 is a positive but partial first step in

3 replacing the many hundreds of engineering

4 staff lost over the last 10 years. In the

5 proposed 2007-2008 budget, the proposed

6 number of design and construction program

7 FTEs was approximately 3800, a difference of

8 nearly 1200 positions. In our construction

9 inspection program alone, more than one-third

10 of in-house jobs have been lost over this

11 last seven or eight years.

12 At the time, the capital program in

13 2008 was approximately $2 billion and the

14 total funding for the capital projects

15 category was $4.3 billion. In this year's

16 proposed budget, the capital program is

17 approximately $2.7 billion, and the total

18 funding for the capital projects category is

19 $6.4 billion. Increases in staffing in all

20 program areas, and further increases in the

21 design and construction program, will lead to

22 efficiency, better quality, and less overtime

23 costs.

24 Consultant engineers still make up too

454

1 great of a portion of DOT's engineering

2 staff. Under the proposed budget, DOT will

3 see an increase in consultant staff

4 of 46 FTEs. This will bring the estimated

5 disbursement for consultant service contracts

6 to $168 million for fiscal year 2018.

7 Our studies have shown that consultant

8 civil engineers cost New York State taxpayers

9 an average of 87 percent more than civil

10 engineers permanently hired by DOT. In one

11 case for a consulting bridge inspection

12 contract, the billable rate for a consultant

13 engineer bridge inspector was 32 percent more

14 than the NYSDOT commissioner's hourly rate.

15 Also troubling is the fact that many

16 of these consultant engineering service

17 contracts originated decades ago and are

18 simply renewed as needed. So for all intents

19 and purposes, DOT is paying exorbitant

20 consultant costs for de facto permanent

21 employees.

22 As long-term stewards of public money,

23 these facts should trouble all of us greatly.

24 One additional staffing concern relates to

455

1 Part LL of the Transportation Article VII

2 Legislation. PEF is concerned that shared

3 service agreements between DOT, the Power

4 Authority, and the Canal Corporation could

5 lead to a blurring of the lines of functions

6 and responsibilities between state agencies

7 and public authorities. It could further

8 reduce transparency, accountability and

9 oversight if not clearly defined.

10 A continuing priority for PEF is the

11 inclusion of cost/benefit legislation that

12 would require an analysis before entering

13 into consultant contractual services. This

14 would be valuable in many fields, including

15 engineering. Requiring this analysis allows

16 for documentation to reinforce decision

17 making.

18 As stated by everyone, investment in

19 our infrastructure is vital for economic

20 development. We believe through strong

21 financial decision-making, cost/benefit

22 analysis, and having a steady, educated

23 workforce, transportation funds can be used

24 most efficiently.

456

1 The DOT already makes efforts to

2 create five-year capital programs and other

3 long term planning tools. If proper staffing

4 and steady funding were available, there

5 would be less need for emergency projects as

6 well as less efficient and costly procurement

7 methods such as design-build.

8 Thank you for your time and the

9 opportunity to speak with you today.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

11 Questions?

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

13 Thank you for coming from Hornell.

14 MS. PATTERSON: We're not driving back

15 tonight. You guys ran late.

16 (Laughter.)

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That's good.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Do you have the

19 same mayor?

20 MS. PATTERSON: Pardon me?

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Does Hornell have

22 the same mayor?

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Shawn Hogan.

24 MS. PATTERSON: Shawn Hogan? He

457

1 certainly is still there, yes, he is.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes, he is.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Tell him Denny said

4 hello.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

6 MS. PATTERSON: Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Scott Wigger,

8 executive director, Railroads of New York,

9 Incorporated.

10 Oh. This amount of paper gets me very

11 nervous.

12 MR. WIGGER: Yeah. I know. You know,

13 in the interests of time, I'm summarizing my

14 testimony here, unless that's a specific

15 request to go through it.

16 Good afternoon. My name is Scott

17 Wigger. I'm the executive director for

18 Railroads of New York, and I want to thank

19 you all for the opportunity here to testify

20 before you today.

21 RONY represents the freight rail

22 industry here in New York State comprised of

23 four Class I railroads -- CSX, Canadian

24 National, Canadian Pacific, and Norfolk

458

1 Southern -- and 36 short-line and regional

2 railroads. Together they employ a little

3 over 3700 employees here in New York State

4 and allow all of our industrial,

5 agricultural, and commercial customers access

6 to the nation's freight rail network.

7 As it relates to the statewide

8 infrastructure, the capital program for

9 freight rail included the Governor's budget

10 proposal is $27.5 million, broken down into

11 $17.5 million for freight rail projects and a

12 separate allocation of $10 million for a mix

13 of freight, passenger rail, and port-related

14 projects.

15 We certainly wish to express our

16 thanks for including these funds in the

17 budget proposal. It's a very important

18 funding source for many of our state's

19 freight rail operators to maintain their

20 systems in a state of good repair and to

21 allow for economic development expansion

22 efforts.

23 We'd like to request that we continue

24 to build this program up to a $50 million

459

1 annual level. This is the level that this

2 program was funded at during the 2005-2010

3 bond act years. We feel that this is the

4 appropriate level for this program and allows

5 many essential projects to get underway.

6 Just for a little reference there,

7 when the bond act funds were done in 2010 --

8 for the next three years, this essential

9 program was zeroed out for freight rail, as

10 all funding was directed towards high-speed

11 rail projects. So in the years after that,

12 with your support and the Governor's office,

13 we've been able to essentially bring this

14 program back from the dead. Really, we are

15 very appreciative of this, and we're slowly

16 building it back up. Last year $27.5 million

17 was included in the enacted budget, which is

18 what the Governor is proposing this year as

19 well.

20 Just to give a sense of the needs in

21 the system, the last time DOT had a rail plan

22 in 2009, they put the needs at about

23 $390 million per year over a five-year period

24 in the whole network. And about half those

460

1 needs are for state of good repair

2 activities. And then we did our own informal

3 survey, which is that gigantic attachment

4 that you see to my testimony there. So

5 there's about $230 million worth of projects

6 listed in there, and it covers all areas of

7 the state. As you'll see, it's broken down

8 by region as well.

9 So you can see there's the needs of

10 the system, and then we'd like to continue to

11 build up this funding program to a

12 $50 million level with your support.

13 Aside from that, I wish to address the

14 Governor's railroad safety program bill that

15 was signed into law last year. It passed

16 right at the end of session, signed into law

17 there.

18 I just want to start by saying safety

19 always has been and always will be the

20 number-one priority for the freight rail

21 industry, and we support any efforts to help

22 further increase safety on our state's rail

23 system there.

24 However, in this bill that passed

461

1 there were some elements that, technical in

2 nature, are still problematic for our members

3 which we'd like to address in this budget

4 process, specifically as relates to the

5 highway rail at-grade crossing inspection

6 program there. We'd like to maintain the

7 railroads' exclusive responsibility for

8 maintenance and access to these systems.

9 This will leave the entire inspection program

10 completely intact, and we support those

11 efforts for that.

12 The next change deals with the bridge

13 inspection requirements there. Back in

14 December 2015, President Obama signed into

15 law the federal FAST Act, which addressed,

16 among many other things, railroad bridge

17 inspection procedures and reporting

18 requirements. Included in this is a system

19 where basically the feds maintain the central

20 repository of all these bridge inspection

21 reports that any state can get on demand at

22 any time. So the corrections we would

23 suggest to make is basically just to marry up

24 the state law with the federal law in this

462

1 respect.

2 And then, lastly, we seek to

3 reestablish the state's general

4 jurisdictional authority over the state's

5 public highway rail crossings only, and not

6 the private ones, which there's hundreds of

7 these throughout the state on farms, private

8 lands, and whatnot.

9 So -- and just one last note on that.

10 When the Governor signed this bill into law

11 last year, he indicated in his approval memo

12 his willingness to work with us and the

13 Legislature to address these technical

14 concerns.

15 So in summation, we respectfully

16 request your support to get the program up to

17 the $50 million annual level and for

18 including those technical amendments in the

19 budget language.

20 Thank you very much, and I'll take

21 your questions.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

23 Any questions? Mr. Oaks.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Just quickly. Rail

463

1 use, how does New York State compare in

2 commercial hauling, compared to the nation as

3 a whole? Are we, percentagewise, up there

4 with other areas or not?

5 MR. WIGGER: We're certainly up there,

6 around that. In terms of mileage, it's

7 certainly up toward the top. And in addition

8 to, you know, the main centers we have

9 here -- you know, Buffalo to New York through

10 Albany -- we're also a big pass-through state

11 for goods going from Chicago to Boston.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And Long Island

13 area versus upstate? Is Long Island a lesser

14 use or greater or --

15 EXEC. DIR. WIGGER: Yeah, there's only

16 one freight rail operator on Long Island,

17 that's the New York & Atlantic Railway. The

18 rest of our short-line and regional railroads

19 are mostly located upstate.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Is there anything

21 being done to -- I know you went through a

22 lot of investment in existing rail and safety

23 and whatever -- anything being done to try to

24 push higher use on rail versus -- you know,

464

1 as it impacts perhaps truck traffic or road

2 safety?

3 MR. WIGGER: I would certainly -- you

4 know, from a business perspective, we're

5 always looking to grow our systems. You

6 know, reaching customers, supporting economic

7 development to agricultural, commercial and

8 industrial sectors. We do realize the need

9 for trucks, especially for intermodal

10 shipments and getting to the last mile, so to

11 speak.

12 But when it comes to hauling freight

13 over long distances, we actually -- we're the

14 tops in that respect as far as, you know,

15 efficiency, safety, environmental benefits,

16 and what have you there. So it's just, in

17 general, we're always looking to expand our

18 system to support any economic development

19 benefits.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Good.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

22 Mr. Wigger. Thank you for being here today.

23 Just real quickly, with the technical

24 amendments to the railroad safety bill that

465

1 was signed into law last year -- you brought

2 that up -- have you shared your concerns with

3 the Governor's office?

4 MR. WIGGER: Yes, we have. And we

5 worked with them on a draft language that

6 they have indicated that they are supportive

7 of and -- supportive of, including in the

8 budget process here as we go along.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Have you

10 shared that language with our counsel's

11 office, or any other legislators or Senators?

12 MR. WIGGER: Yes, we've been sharing

13 this language, and I understand that your

14 staffs are reviewing this still.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, good. Thank

16 you.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

18 MR. WIGGER: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: John DelBalso,

20 New York Aviation Management Association.

21 And after that will be John Tomassi

22 and John Scott and Greg Beratan.

23 MR. DELBALSO: Okay. Thank you,

24 Chairwoman Young, Chairman Farrell, and

466

1 members of the Legislature.

2 I am John DelBalso, president of the

3 New York Aviation Management Association,

4 known as NYAMA. NYAMA appreciates this

5 opportunity to testify on the 2017-2018

6 Executive Budget as it relates to the support

7 of airports and the aviation industry in

8 New York.

9 NYAMA represents over 13,000 members

10 and affiliate members, 120 commercial service

11 and general aviation airports, fixed-base

12 operators, consultants, engineers, and other

13 aviation industries and professionals who

14 believe that serious economic development

15 efforts at the state and regional level

16 necessitates strong public investment in our

17 aviation assets and facilities.

18 I would like to take this moment to

19 thank you and all the members of the

20 Legislature for enacting significant

21 initiatives as part of the 2016-2017 State

22 Budget to bolster state investments in

23 airports. The additional Aviation Capital

24 Grant Program funding and the Upstate Airport

467

1 Economic Development and Revitalization

2 Competition represent a significant increase

3 in the state's commitment to addressing the

4 critical maintenance and modernization needs

5 of many of our smaller and medium-size

6 airports throughout the State.

7 Airports are economic engines fueling

8 growth in the communities they serve.

9 According to data from the New York State

10 Department of Transportation and updated

11 figures from the Port Authority of

12 New York-New Jersey, the aviation industry

13 contributes over $68 billion in annual

14 economic activity in New York State, and more

15 than 490,000 state residents work in aviation

16 or aviation-related industries.

17 The economic benefits of New York

18 State airports are impressive. As a whole,

19 aviation generates $24 billion in payroll and

20 $6 billion in state and local tax revenue

21 annually.

22 A strong and steady commitment to

23 state infrastructure investment in airports

24 is helping to power this aviation-led

468

1 economic engine for the benefit of New York's

2 citizens, even in the face of stiff

3 competition from other states. The Executive

4 Budget funds the state's Aviation Capital

5 Grant Program at $12.5 million annually for

6 the next three years.

7 While this funding level will provide

8 valuable financial assistance for vital

9 infrastructure projects at airports across

10 New York -- for example, funding airport

11 security improvements, repair of existing

12 facilities, safety enhancements, et cetera --

13 it is important to note that over 130

14 public-use airports across the state compete

15 for a portion of this funding.

16 Based on the analysis of FAA-approved

17 documents such as Airport Capital Improvement

18 Plans, Airport Master Plans and Airport

19 Layout Plans, the New York State Department

20 of Transportation has estimated that the

21 state will need $4.3 billion to support its

22 aviation goals for the 20-year period between

23 2010 and 2030, an average of $215 million per

24 year. This investment is necessary to

469

1 properly maintain the system and allow

2 airports to attract passenger, cargo, and

3 general aviation services, therefore

4 supporting the Governor's economic

5 development goals.

6 Consequently, NYAMA estimates that the

7 appropriate level of funding for the State

8 Aviation Capital Grant program to be

9 $40 million annually. In 2015, the New York

10 State Department of Transportation received a

11 total of $34.4 million in funding requests by

12 84 airports for critical projects. Out of

13 these 84 applications, only 20 were awarded a

14 total of $10 million under the State Aviation

15 Capital Grant Program. This demonstrates the

16 sizable gap between what is required for

17 airport development projects and what is

18 ultimately available through the state

19 budget.

20 As a result of the small number of

21 projects funded under the program, we know

22 the number of funding applications submitted

23 is artificially low. Many airports cannot

24 devote scarce resources to design and

470

1 engineer projects and go through the expense

2 of the application process if there is little

3 chance that they will be awarded due to the

4 lack of significant program funding.

5 It is important to note that the

6 funding level that you appropriate each year

7 for the State Aviation Capital Grant Program

8 is discounted due to the underfunding of the

9 state matching program, or AIP, for federal

10 airport capital improvement dollars.

11 The FAA's Airport Capital Improvement

12 Program typically funded 95 percent of all

13 eligible projects. A change in the program a

14 few years ago now provides only 90 percent

15 federal funding to most airports that are

16 awarded grants. What this means is that the

17 amount required for the state match for the

18 grant has doubled, but the budget

19 appropriation for AIP remains the same at

20 $4 million.

21 The federal funding that is received

22 by New York airports varies, but it is

23 typically between $80 million to $100 million

24 annually. Based on experience and recent

471

1 program data, it is known that the $4 million

2 budget allocation by the state to cover its

3 share of federally funded airport projects

4 will be insufficient again this year. This

5 creates an uncertainty that all available

6 federal funding will be utilized by New York

7 going forward.

8 For the past several fiscal years, an

9 additional $1 million to $3 million has been

10 necessary to meet the state share match.

11 Regrettably, this AIP funding shortfall has

12 been made up by reducing the capital funds

13 available through the State Aviation Capital

14 Grant Program. Unless AIP is fully funded,

15 the funding gap will continue into the next

16 fiscal year and beyond, siphoning millions of

17 scarce dollars from an undersized state

18 airport capital funding program.

19 NYAMA urges the Legislature to fully

20 fund the airport improvement program match at

21 a minimum of $6 million in the 2017-2018

22 budget. This will ensure that the full

23 amount of funding appropriated to the State

24 Aviation Capital Grant Program can be used

472

1 for the important purposes of that program

2 and not be transferred to make up the

3 shortfall in the AIP state-federal match

4 program.

5 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: If you could just

6 summarize the last two points, because we are

7 beyond your time, that would be appreciated.

8 We have your testimony to take in.

9 MR. DELBALSO: Okay.

10 I just want to touch on TNCs really

11 quickly. NYAMA and its member airports are

12 concerned with TNC company language as

13 proposed in the Governor's Budget. The

14 budget language appears to limit local

15 governments' abilities to regulate TNCs.

16 This could have the unintended effect of

17 stripping away airports' authority to manage

18 TNC activity in and around its facilities,

19 since many public-use airports are owned or

20 controlled by local governments.

21 TNCs like Uber and Lyft operate at

22 numerous airports through agreements that

23 allow TNC operation in accordance with

24 airport ground transportation regulations,

473

1 and appear to be standard industry practice.

2 NYAMA is seeking the same regulatory model

3 for New York airports for the safety and well

4 being of its passengers.

5 And just in conclusion, really

6 quickly, NYAMA and its members across

7 New York State support your efforts to ensure

8 that the state pursues policies that are

9 pro-growth and pro-job creation. Strong

10 state investment in our airports is one of

11 these winning strategies.

12 NYAMA also urges that our concerns

13 about TNC operations at airports be addressed

14 in the budget or in any finally agreed-to

15 bill this session.

16 We look forward to continuing to work

17 with you and all our state elected officials

18 to enhance our airports and aviation assets

19 in ways that create new jobs, increase

20 economic development, and improve airport

21 services so that all regions of New York can

22 compete effectively with other states for

23 business aviation and scheduled commercial

24 service for the benefit of all New York's

474

1 citizens. Thank you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Questions?

4 Thank you. I did see the part you

5 didn't mention was about all airports need

6 this support, not just a few.

7 MR. DELBALSO: Yes.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: So thank you for

9 your testimony.

10 The next group up is Upstate

11 Transportation Association. Upstate

12 Transportation Association, John Tomassi,

13 president. And you're also being joined --

14 MR. TOMASSI: Yeah, we're being

15 joined --

16 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: -- by the Center

17 for Disability Rights?

18 MR. TOMASSI: Correct.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Gregg Beratan.

20 MR. BERATAN: Beratan.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Beratan.

22 And then John Scott, owner of Safety

23 Schools. Thank you.

24 MR. TOMASSI: Thank you, members of

475

1 the Assembly and Senate, for the opportunity

2 to comment on the Governor's proposed

3 Executive Budget. My name's John Tomassi,

4 I'm the president of the Upstate

5 Transportation Association. To my right is

6 Mark Ilacqua -- Mark is director of

7 communications for the association -- and to

8 my left is Gregg Beratan, who is a policy

9 analyst for the Center for Disability Rights.

10 Just one comment: We agree with the

11 Governor's expressed statement that upstate

12 New York should have the same level of

13 service that exists in New York City. That

14 same fairness of service that exists should

15 include the same standards of regulation,

16 including commercial liability insurance,

17 workers' compensation insurance, drivers who

18 are fingerprinted, background checks, drug

19 testing, and medically cleared. All those

20 items exist today in New York City under the

21 auspices of the Taxi and Limousine

22 Commission.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: You're really soft.

24 If you could pull that closer.

476

1 MR. TOMASSI: Yup. Sure.

2 The only reason that ride-sharing

3 companies do not operate in New York outside

4 of New York City today is their aversion to

5 complying with existing rules. They wish to

6 enter upstate New York based on their own set

7 of rules, different than the rules that

8 govern taxis. In our thinking, a taxi is a

9 taxi, no matter how you call it. It's still

10 a taxi when you get in it.

11 Ground transportation has been

12 regulated in New York for good reasons, and

13 these regulations that exist in our towns and

14 counties have developed over time to protect

15 both the public and our drivers.

16 Transportation network companies do the exact

17 same thing as licensed professional

18 transportation operators in New York and

19 should not be regulated any differently. We

20 do not believe that there should be any

21 sweetheart deals on safety, insurance rates,

22 tolls and taxes for multinational companies

23 to cut their own operating costs.

24 We are here today to raise several

477

1 issues that we do not believe are currently

2 covered adequately in the Governor's proposal

3 or in any current ride-share legislation, and

4 also to suggest that the state budget include

5 adequate funding through licensing fees to

6 cover the cost of providing real regulation

7 for these transportation network companies.

8 First, we do not agree that the state

9 should create a special insurance product for

10 ride-share companies, which product has

11 already proven in other jurisdictions to be

12 dangerous and costly for everyone -- except

13 for the TNC companies -- by creating major

14 gaps in insurance policies. These special

15 insurance products offer no guarantee that

16 any person who is injured in any ride-share

17 vehicle will ever see compensation.

18 As an example, an Uber driver in San

19 Francisco struck a mother and her two young

20 children, one of who tragically passed away,

21 while the driver was in between trips but

22 actively seeking to pick up a passenger.

23 That type of situation would not be covered

24 under the policy proposed by Uber. Uber

478

1 immediately denied any liability in the case,

2 and as a result the family had to sue for

3 hundreds of thousands of dollars.

4 Background checks. Background

5 fingerprinting checks. We have seen in

6 jurisdiction after jurisdiction across our

7 country that Uber and Lyft's own background

8 checks are inadequate in preventing

9 individuals with prior violent criminal

10 histories from becoming drivers and having

11 subsequently committed violent crimes against

12 their own passengers.

13 Transportation drivers in New York,

14 including ride-share drivers, should be

15 fingerprinted. If Uber and Lyft are claiming

16 that fingerprinting and criminal background

17 checks are not the gold standard, then the

18 Legislature should cease fingerprinting all

19 childcare workers. If you're -- the

20 background check just is clearly not

21 sufficient.

22 Next, we understand that the

23 Legislature has raised the lack of

24 transportation services in some communities.

479

1 However, there is nothing in any version of

2 the ride-share legislation that will ensure

3 that any ride-share vehicle, in actuality,

4 will operate in these underserved areas. It

5 is more likely that these TNCs will

6 congregate in the bigger cities and

7 population centers.

8 Another major concern that the

9 Legislature should be aware of, in particular

10 if regulations are imbalanced and varied in

11 the state, is that nothing in the Governor's

12 proposal could physically stop a TNC driver

13 from registering a vehicle in one

14 jurisdiction but deploying that vehicle in

15 another jurisdiction. For example, a TNC

16 driver could register in Rockland County,

17 where registrations are theoretically easier

18 and less expensive, and then turn around and

19 operate in New York City, which has a higher

20 {inaudible} standard.

21 Next, there is no language in the

22 proposal that addresses the environmental

23 impact of adding hundreds, if not thousands,

24 of new vehicles to our roads. As these

480

1 ride-share operations grow, we need the

2 ability to assess the impact that these added

3 vehicles will have on our streets, and we

4 need to ensure that the environment is not

5 negatively impacted in communities where

6 these vehicles congregate. We urge this

7 Legislature to ensure that an environmental

8 impact study is part of the ride-share

9 proposal.

10 Finally, we urge this Legislature to

11 seriously consider and publicly address the

12 full-time jobs with full-time benefits -- the

13 number of full-time jobs and full-time

14 benefits they are putting at risk and that

15 will never be replaced in upstate New York or

16 Long Island. One report states that as many

17 as 11,150 full-time nondriver jobs within the

18 taxi industry will be eliminated if

19 ride-share companies expand as quickly as

20 their models predict. The jobs that

21 ride-share companies claim to create are

22 part-time gig work with no benefits or

23 protections for the drivers.

24 In conclusion, the promise of

481

1 technology does not mean that we must also

2 import the problems and unfortunate tragedies

3 that we have learned along the way. Our

4 New York State Legislature and our Governor

5 needs to show the rest of our country and the

6 world how to make deployment of ride-share

7 vehicles safe, equitable, and fair for all

8 New Yorkers.

9 Thank you for your time and

10 consideration.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

12 MR. BERATAN: Thank you to the chairs.

13 My name is Gregg Beratan, I'm from the Center

14 for Disability Rights.

15 And also I wanted to thank the other

16 members of the committee who earlier pressed

17 the MTA on accessibility issues, because its

18 record is appalling now. And I urge you to

19 keep at them about it, because it really

20 needs to improve.

21 But my primary focus here today is

22 also to talk about ride sharing, although our

23 testimony contains much more. The Center for

24 Disability Rights is deeply concerned about

482

1 the state's proposed ride-sharing initiative.

2 The fact is that as a state we have enough

3 inaccessible forms of transport. Disabled

4 people need more options. We would love to

5 be able to support ride sharing if it were

6 accessible, but so far these companies have

7 at every turn resisted any attempts to force

8 them to be accessible, and the proposal that

9 the state is making is less adequate than

10 most.

11 Unless the state actively forces them

12 to keep a percentage of their fleets that are

13 accessible, they have argued that they're

14 exempt from any anti-discrimination laws that

15 exist and therefore are -- you know, have not

16 adhered to them. And unfortunately, both the

17 state and federal governments have shown an

18 unwillingness to prosecute this. Adequately,

19 at least.

20 I was also -- and I know this isn't

21 the responsibility of the members here, but

22 also quite disturbed to open the Senate's

23 webpage today and see "Bringing Ride Sharing

24 to all New Yorkers." Unless you ensure that

483

1 disabled New Yorkers are included in that

2 group, there will be no -- that will not

3 apply. You are lying.

4 And so "all" means all. Keep that in

5 mind. You know, if you don't include

6 disabled people -- we are part of New York.

7 Thank you.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you very

9 much.

10 Questions?

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

12 MR. TOMASSI: Thank you for your time.

13 (Scattered applause from audience.)

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: John Scott, owner

15 of Safety School.

16 (Discussion off the record.)

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Empire State

18 Council.

19 Then Committee on Taxi Safety, Spyros

20 Messados, representative.

21 Empire State Council, are you here?

22 MR. SCOTT: Yes. My name is John

23 Scott.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: And you are John

484

1 Scott.

2 MR. SCOTT: Right.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: All right. And

4 you've replaced Mr. Bonds.

5 MR. SCOTT: Well, yes, I was --

6 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: David Bonds.

7 MR. SCOTT: -- having a call yesterday

8 from him, Bill Bonds, William Bonds, in

9 Florida. He unfortunately had surgery and

10 was recuperating and would have had to fly up

11 and didn't feel ready to do that yet.

12 I have been, myself, a delivery agent

13 and an owner-operator of Excelsior Driving

14 School d/b/a since 1997. Prior to 1997, I

15 also did the five-hour course as well as

16 in-car driving. I've been associated with

17 the Empire Safety Council since at least 10

18 years prior.

19 I have a statement, somewhat lengthy,

20 from Mr. Bonds that was faxed to me this

21 morning, and I'd like to be able to read it.

22 Hopefully I can get through it. If not, you

23 can stop me and then I'll do a conclusion --

24 but I'm hoping I can get through the whole

485

1 statement.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: The clock is

3 running on you now. Okay.

4 MR. SCOTT: Okay?

5 Mr. Bonds, President of the Empire

6 Safety Council, is calling for the immediate

7 termination of the Point and Insurance

8 Reduction Program, also known IPIRP. He is

9 also advocating that criminal charges should

10 be brought for state official misconduct for

11 scheming to continue ineffective driver

12 safety programs by facilitating scientific

13 research, defrauding the public and

14 compromising public safety.

15 The statement is as follows: Thank

16 you Chairman Young, Chairman Farrell, and

17 members of the Legislature. I am William

18 Bonds, president of the Empire Safety

19 Council.

20 The Empire Safety Council, a

21 New York-based and approved accident

22 prevention course sponsor, is all about

23 highway safety and improving the skills of

24 New York drivers. This is why we are calling

486

1 for the immediate termination of the Internet

2 Point Insurance Reduction Program in this

3 state due to the scheme backed by willfully

4 fraudulent studies conducted by the New York

5 State Department of Motor Vehicles, DMV,

6 officials that were the basis of

7 recommendations to the commissioner and to

8 the Legislature to extend the IPIRP program

9 beyond the previously scheduled expiration

10 date of 2014.

11 The effectiveness of the IPIRP program

12 is supposed to be evaluated by means of

13 independent statistical analysis by DMV of

14 driver improvement. After reviewing the

15 damning evidence contained herein, I'm sure

16 you will agree that New York's analysis is

17 fraudulent, its evaluations scientifically

18 worthless, and that certain state officials

19 should be prosecuted for fraud, misleading

20 the Legislature and the Executive, and

21 violating the public trust.

22 DMV officials deliberately schemed to

23 mislead the commissioner, Legislature and the

24 public. Why would DMV officials do this?

487

1 The answer can be found in language of the

2 DMV-ITSMR contract, which is the Institute

3 for Traffic Safety, Management, and Research.

4 The contract itself: "Without this study and

5 recommendations to the Governor and the

6 Legislature, the law authorizing IPIRP will

7 sunset in May, 2014, eliminating an

8 increasingly popular customer alternative to

9 the classroom courses. In addition, since

10 the sponsor fee to New York State for

11 completers of IPIRP is $8 per student versus

12 $2 for the classroom course, elimination of

13 IPIRP would also represent a substantial

14 revenue loss to New York State."

15 The institutional bias in ensuring

16 that IPIRP was extended is glaring. DMV

17 telegraphed what they needed the study's

18 conclusions to be to avoid the revenue loss

19 upwards of $3 million and the end of a

20 popular program. By diverting more and more

21 students each year away from the classroom

22 course and onto the internet, the state reaps

23 four times the revenue per student. The push

24 to favor the internet for motor vehicle-

488

1 related transactions is also promoted by DMV

2 as a way to accomplish the administration's

3 desire for the state to employ more

4 technology and, in DMV's case, to reduce

5 lines at its local offices.

6 It is a scandal that driver safety has

7 been compromised by the very agency that is

8 charged with making vehicle travel safer by

9 rigging the study and its conclusions and

10 making state revenue a priority.

11 Study written by DMV ghostwriter, not

12 written by ITSMR researchers. The

13 information about the research done under

14 contracts awarded by DMV to the Institute for

15 Traffic Safety Management and Research was

16 the subject of extensive FOIL requests ESC

17 made to DMV, ITSMR, and the State

18 Comptroller's office seeking proof that the

19 research contracted by DMV to be conducted by

20 ITSMR actually was done by ITSMR. These

21 contracts verify that ITSMR's scope of work

22 included the responsibility for ITSMR to

23 conduct these studies and provide other

24 deliverables, but discussions with ITSMR

489

1 officials contradicted this claim.

2 However, after ESC's inquiry -- which

3 is Empire Safety Council's inquiry -- with

4 the Office of Research Misconduct and Ethics

5 for the institute, it was made clear that

6 ITSMR did not actually conduct the research

7 for which it is credited and for which it has

8 been paid by the DMV.

9 When I asked the vice president of

10 research about what appeared to be obvious

11 omissions in the analysis and evaluation that

12 the institute provided, I was told that since

13 the institute denies that the research is

14 their work product, the DMV may change the

15 document and omit any analysis and evaluation

16 made by the institute, since it is

17 exclusively the department's own research,

18 however misleading the cover page -- stating

19 that the study was "conducted by the

20 Institute for Traffic Safety Management and

21 Research, University at Albany, Research

22 Foundation of SUNY" -- may be.

23 Further, in correspondence to ESC in

24 response to a FOIL appeal, the vice

490

1 chancellor for policy and chief of staff,

2 FOIL appeals, for SUNY wrote: "This

3 evaluation was conducted by the New York

4 State Department of Motor Vehicles, not the

5 University at Albany."

6 The IRP study does not even list any

7 authors or staff at either agency who worked

8 on the contradicted study.

9 Clear evidence of fraud -- the DMV

10 study of the IPIRP pilot is exposed as

11 intentional scientific misconduct, knowing

12 that the validity of the methods does not

13 meet ethical standards. To be clear, the

14 2007 study methodology comments by the author

15 on page 29 states: "In sum, the findings

16 from the pilot study indicate that the

17 prescribed design may not be viable for use

18 in assessing PIRP effectiveness."

19 Subsequently, the author has left this

20 statement out of the 2013 study

21 intentionally. This fraudulent and flawed

22 study diminishes the negative impact of a

23 program that is bad public policy by

24 knowingly using invalid methods.

491

1 Furthermore, it was related to me by

2 department officials in 2008 that the 2007

3 study results confirmed that PIRP had "nearly

4 zero" effectiveness, and that therefore, as a

5 result, there was no reason for PIRP

6 applicants to submit research documentation

7 of effectiveness prior to approval in

8 contemplation of Section 2336 of the

9 Insurance Law.

10 In other words, these PIRP applicants

11 had no verifiable research documentation that

12 their courses were effective. So DMV did an

13 obviously flawed study by a fraudulent author

14 to get the PIRP program off the ground. All

15 applicant courses were approved without a

16 study of effectiveness, in violation of the

17 law.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Can you come to

19 a -- can you shorten this?

20 MR. SCOTT: Okay.

21 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: You're already

22 3Ω minutes over your time.

23 MR. SCOTT: Okay. Well, I'd like to

24 just make the conclusion at the bottom of the

492

1 study --

2 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Summarize.

3 MR. SCOTT: -- and if you have any

4 quick questions, I could answer them.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yeah.

6 MR. SCOTT: Of my personal knowledge.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yeah. Go, go, go,

8 go, go.

9 MR. SCOTT: What should be done? The

10 Legislature and the Governor have the power

11 to end the PIRP program immediately and

12 demonstrate to New Yorkers that the state is

13 committed to endorsing only driver safety

14 programs that are proven to work as

15 advertised. In light of the descriptions

16 involved in the DMV-ITSMR research contracts

17 and the resulting threat to public safety,

18 Empire Safety Council is urging that your

19 budget be amended to terminate the IPIRP

20 program. You should also call for

21 prosecuting state officials that were

22 involved in this fraud.

23 Thank you for this opportunity to

24 bring this issue to your attention.

493

1 Mr. Bonds says he's willing to meet with you

2 to demonstrate the evidence he has supported

3 for these claims.

4 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

5 much.

6 Yes. Any questions?

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, just one,

8 quickly.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes, surely,

10 Senator.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much.

12 So have you brought this complaint

13 either to an inspector general who oversees

14 DMV and/or to the State Comptroller for an

15 audit?

16 MR. SCOTT: It says that in the

17 statement, at least to the inspector general.

18 I don't recall in the statement, until I've

19 read it again, if it was also the State

20 Comptroller. But I'm quite sure that

21 Mr. Bonds is very thorough when he's looking

22 into it.

23 Empire Safety Council, it's my

24 understanding, is now the largest 6-point

494

1 insurance program in the State of New York.

2 The largest, okay? In each course we mention

3 that over 50 percent of all accidents and

4 collisions in New York State derive from

5 alcohol abuse alone. That does not include

6 other types of drugs or drowsy driving or

7 whatever -- even texting, which was brought

8 up by another Senator here just previously.

9 There is a part of this Empire course,

10 and I'm sure in most other courses, that is

11 approved by the State of New York that

12 specifically talks about drowsy driving as

13 well as texting. So it's very important that

14 the students who take the course actually

15 take it, get a certificate, and are

16 encouraged to take it again and expand it to

17 their friends and family. Because it is a

18 very effective course.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much

20 for your testimony.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

22 MR. SCOTT: It's been a pleasure.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Committee for Taxi

24 Safety, Spyros Messados, representative. And

495

1 then after that will be Kevin Barwell,

2 Limousine and Bus and Taxi Operators.

3 MR. MESSADOS: Good afternoon, good

4 evening, wherever we are now. Thank you very

5 much, Chairperson Young, Chairperson Farrell,

6 members of the Senate and the Assembly for

7 the opportunity to submit testimony on the

8 Governor's proposed Executive Budget.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Could you move the

10 mic a little closer?

11 MR. MESSADOS: Absolutely.

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: That one is --

13 MR. MESSADOS: Is that better?

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.

15 MR. MESSADOS: All right. Good.

16 I tend to speak loudly, so I was

17 actually going for the opposite effect.

18 My name is Spyros Messados. I'm a

19 representative for the Committee for Taxi

20 Safety; we represent about 20 percent of

21 New York City's TLC licensed Yellow Cabs.

22 And I am also an operator. I am at the

23 driver level every single day, and I'm

24 actually TLC-licensed as well. So I have

496

1 kind of a breadth of knowledge on this topic,

2 particularly when it comes to our drivers.

3 And contrary to how this issue is

4 being presented by transportation network

5 companies, the New York City taxi industry

6 does not oppose the expansion of ride share

7 and TNC service outside of New York City.

8 Rather, we actually support it, and we

9 support the expansion of the rules that

10 currently are in place to protect both the

11 public and our drivers in New York City.

12 These are common-sense regulations.

13 And despite the complaining and the threats

14 to not provide service, transportation

15 network companies like Uber and Lyft do

16 provide this service and they do meet these

17 requirements in New York City. There are

18 many of them, and they've allowed all of this

19 to happen, and they've signed up 46,000

20 drivers -- actually, more -- under these

21 requirements. So there's obviously not too

22 much impeding them from actually meeting and

23 going through with these requirements.

24 Today I'll outline some of the

497

1 regulation in New York City that we have in

2 place to protect the public and our drivers,

3 I'll outline the effects that ride share has

4 had over the last few years, and I'll end

5 with some takeaways, particularly some

6 important lessons learned about enforcement.

7 So first and foremost, what we have in

8 New York City is an independent licensing

9 process. The keystone to this process is

10 fingerprinting. Fingerprinting is

11 comprehensive, it's unbiased, and it's

12 really -- it's very immune to human error.

13 We believe that this is something that should

14 be expanded throughout the state. And

15 although Uber is perfectly fine, and Lyft as

16 well, with fingerprinting every single driver

17 in New York City, they refuse to do so across

18 the rest of the state.

19 This is where we ask the question of

20 why a citizen in any other part of the state

21 should be -- have the right to any less

22 protections than are citizens in New York

23 City from drivers, from dangerous individuals

24 getting into their cars.

498

1 We also have a full licensing program

2 behind this, which brings what we determine

3 as a clean driver through fingerprinting and

4 DMV background checks, and we elevate that

5 clean driver to a level of competence where

6 they can earn money in New York City. We

7 have driver training both in an education

8 form, to teach them courtesy, and in

9 defensive driving courses to, teach them how

10 to be safe. They have to pass a test. The

11 have to pass wheelchair accessibility

12 training and sensitivity training to a

13 multitude of different disabilities, not only

14 individuals who need wheelchair assistance.

15 So our drivers are elevated to a level of

16 professionalism.

17 And these regulations are really

18 important, because they determine the nature

19 of the driver pool that you'll have once you

20 allow ride share to come into upstate. And

21 this is where I want to get to the effects of

22 ride share and how those lessons can be

23 applied upstate.

24 So what's happened in New York City is

499

1 TNC vehicles -- I'll use Uber as an

2 example -- they outnumber yellows more than

3 three to one. And kind of as example, you

4 can see in the amount of rides they're doing

5 the effect this is having on driver incomes.

6 With 46,000 vehicles, Uber alone does 226,000

7 rides. Yellow Taxi are in numbers about

8 13,500, we do 336,000 rides -- 110,000 rides

9 more, with less than one-third the drivers.

10 This comes out to your average car doing

11 about five rides a day in Uber and about

12 24 rides a day in Yellow Cabs.

13 This math very well plays out what

14 I've seen at the ground level, which is that

15 what we're doing is taking full-time jobs in

16 Yellow Cabs and we're splitting each one up

17 into about five part-time jobs on ride-share

18 platforms.

19 And this is why every single driver in

20 New York City, including the TNC drivers --

21 probably most importantly the TNC drivers,

22 from my conversations with them -- are

23 suffering to make an income. They're each

24 competing for a smaller and smaller piece of

500

1 the pie. This gets back to the reason why

2 the Haas Act was introduced in the first

3 place in the depression-stricken 1930s, when

4 you had thousands of people who were looking

5 for a job, and so they drove cabs, and not

6 enough passengers out there to actually

7 sustain a living.

8 This is when they decided that the

9 supply had to be controlled, in a sense, to

10 allow each one of these individuals to have a

11 living, to be able to support families -- and

12 in a lot of ways, this is the only way a lot

13 of low-income and marginalized families have

14 a way to get work. In fact, it's the only

15 reason why my family is in this country, it's

16 because my father was able to come here and

17 drive a cab and get us in a position where I

18 can sit here in front of you.

19 And so what we're hoping for is a

20 drill-down on public safety. And taking

21 these lessons from New York, seeing that

22 drivers competing in this hypercompetitive

23 environment is unhealthy -- it leads to the

24 additional issues that we've seen like

501

1 drivers using three, four cellphones on a

2 dashboard to try to catch the first ride,

3 whether it comes through Lyft via Gett or

4 Uber.

5 Fatigued-driving rules have had to be

6 put in place in New York City now, because

7 drivers are driving 19 hours on a shift just

8 to make a living. Drivers are sleeping in

9 their cars. And this goes across all

10 segments -- it's not just TNCs, it's not just

11 Yellows, it's every single driver on our

12 streets.

13 Accessibility is a huge issue, as was

14 mentioned before by the Upstate

15 Transportation Association and the Center for

16 Disability Rights. Uber has 46,000 cars, and

17 not a single one is accessible, in New York

18 City. And when this segment of TNCs is

19 pretty much the only segment that's growing

20 in number of vehicles, them using the excuse

21 that they dispatch existing rides to existing

22 wheelchair providers is not really a

23 solution, because it's not increasing the

24 number of accessible vehicles and therefore

502

1 the availability for our citizens with

2 disabilities.

3 And lastly, I'd like to just talk

4 about enforcement really quickly -- I know

5 I'm over my time, and I apologize. But the

6 introduction of TNCs has created an

7 enforcement nightmare at our airports, on our

8 streets, at our hotels. It's near impossible

9 to distinguish a straight plate, an

10 unlicensed driver from a TNC vehicle. Even

11 with our TLC-issued plates in New York, we do

12 have different plates, and still it's near

13 impossible to differentiate what is an

14 illegal hail and an illegal pickup and what

15 is even an illegal taxi from a legitimate car

16 outside of our Yellow Cabs.

17 And so we are recommending just that

18 the Legislature give all these issues some

19 really deep thought, and not to rush to a

20 decision here, because we are reeling from

21 the effects in post and realizing how nice it

22 would have been to be in your position and

23 know those lessons from the outset.

24 So one of the things we're

503

1 recommending is branding on the vehicles or

2 branding on the license plates to make sure

3 that that pops, to make sure it's easy for

4 your enforcement officials, and also similar

5 empowerment of your individual municipalities

6 to prevent drivers either coming in from

7 New York City or licensing themselves in

8 those jurisdictions and then coming into

9 New York City.

10 Thank you very much for your time. I

11 hope you give this some very good thought.

12 Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

15 Can I ask one question -- I'm sorry.

16 Diane Savino.

17 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

18 So I just wanted to ask one question

19 because, you know, the issue of the

20 background checks has become a bone of

21 contention in this expansion of ride sharing

22 to upstate. And I just -- I just want to say

23 again -- so in New York City, where we have

24 ride sharing, where Uber and Lyft already

504

1 exist, all of the -- all of the whoever is

2 driving is treated the same way, whether

3 they're an Uber driver, a Lyft driver, or a

4 Yellow Cab driver, a black car driver.

5 They're all cleared, they all have

6 fingerprints -- they're all fingerprinted,

7 they're all background-checked. Correct?

8 MR. MESSADOS: Yes. As of -- since

9 April, the TLC brought that, licensed --

10 yeah.

11 SENATOR SAVINO: So Uber and Lyft are

12 able to operate in New York City with

13 background checks and fingerprinting done

14 by TLC?

15 MR. MESSADOS: It's done by the TLC.

16 SENATOR SAVINO: By the TLC. Okay,

17 thank you.

18 MR. MESSADOS: And they work with

19 Identogo, which does the fingerprinting.

20 This is the same company that actually does

21 all the fingerprinting for our school's

22 education systems. And similar to why it's

23 important there, these individuals are

24 transporting people that we care about.

505

1 They're in charge of the well-being of our

2 loved ones.

3 SENATOR SAVINO: And the insurance --

4 MR. MESSADOS: That's why we think

5 it's very important.

6 SENATOR SAVINO: The insurance

7 levels are the same regardless of the type of

8 vehicle that you're operating?

9 MR. MESSADOS: I'm not too well

10 versed, so I don't want to say something

11 that's incorrect there. But I do know that

12 the New York City TLC did figure out a

13 solution on the insurance side. But again, I

14 don't want to say something that might be

15 incorrect.

16 SENATOR SAVINO: And do you have any

17 explanation -- and they're not here, I know

18 that they submitted testimony, so I'll read

19 their testimony when I have an opportunity.

20 But what is the issue with submitting to

21 fingerprinting by an official organization,

22 by a state agency or a local agency?

23 MR. MESSADOS: So fingerprinting

24 basically takes a lot of the human parts out

506

1 of it. So to get to a background check,

2 you're either going to take someone's name,

3 their Social Security number, their

4 identification -- you take all those things,

5 you match up that this person is who they say

6 they are, you find out what kind of criminal

7 background they have -- not just stuff that's

8 on the record, you can find dispositions for

9 everything.

10 And so with a fingerprint, you get

11 about 100 percent. You can't fake a

12 fingerprint, there's no forgetting a file of

13 a fingerprint on a table.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Mm-hmm.

15 MR. MESSADOS: That -- you plug it in,

16 it's keyed in. And this was actually

17 commented on by some former FBI agents about

18 the New Jersey law that was just passed,

19 where they do have background checks but they

20 don't have fingerprinting, which creates a

21 very slippery slope when you're putting a

22 TNC -- in essence, you're allowing the TNC to

23 do the background checks themselves.

24 When TNCs have an outright

507

1 incentive -- it's actually their biggest

2 incentive, to grow in size. So they don't

3 want to inhibit their drivers, because size

4 lets them compete against other TNCs by

5 having better wait times, attract more

6 drivers, make better earnings. It also lets

7 them compete with us by taking more rides

8 away from the street hail. So growing in

9 size allows them to kind of inch out the

10 market.

11 So putting them in charge of the one

12 thing that gives them a competitive advantage

13 is very dangerous.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

15 MR. MESSADOS: Thank you.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

17 Just a question. I'm also a Senator

18 from New York City, Manhattan.

19 MR. MESSADOS: Gotcha. Nice to meet

20 you, Senator Krueger.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I had one

22 question which was, I think, the same as

23 Diane's about insurance. And you're saying

24 that you think that New York City figured it

508

1 out correctly.

2 MR. MESSADOS: Well, I know that they

3 worked out a deal where it can operate, and I

4 know that obviously we deal with a lot of

5 insurance claims all over the place. We do

6 also have a brokerage, they insure some black

7 cars -- so I have experience everywhere.

8 I drill down on the driver's side, so

9 like I said, I don't want to say something

10 that I don't know is absolutely correct. But

11 from what I understand is that the incidents

12 in New York City have not been these huge

13 incidents like the one in California where

14 you have these fatalities and these huge,

15 huge issues that end up not even being

16 covered. A lot of that also just has to do

17 with getting these vetted drivers into cars

18 so they don't happen in the first place.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: And Yellow Cabs in

20 New York City have created their own app, or

21 the TLC, whoever has. There is an app so

22 that it's to some degree a sort of a blending

23 from both directions of how everybody is

24 handling this new world.

509

1 MR. MESSADOS: Exactly.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: So in your

3 experience, how is the app working for

4 Yellow Cabs?

5 MR. MESSADOS: So that's where we kind

6 of get back to the network and the sizing

7 issues as well. So every single Yellow Cab

8 in New York City is e-hail enabled. You can

9 e-hail every single cab on one of two

10 platforms, and both platforms are keyed into

11 the entire supply of Yellow Cabs in New York

12 City. So you do have all 13,500 cabs always

13 enabled on an e-hail platform.

14 But when you don't have enough riders

15 on an e-hail platform, you create an

16 imbalance into -- for the driver: Is this

17 worth it for me to use? And for the

18 passenger, if I'm going to wait longer

19 because there aren't enough drivers on this

20 platform, why do I care?

21 This is where Uber has such power in

22 this. As you can see, Lyft is barely keeping

23 up. But because they have size, they can

24 double down on the power they have in the

510

1 market -- that's why growing the amount of

2 drivers is so important.

3 And so our apps, they work very well,

4 they've actually been tested in the media a

5 few times. Their wait times are very

6 similar. It's just a marketing game. Yellow

7 Taxi doesn't have any venture capital

8 funding, we don't have millions of dollars in

9 the bank, and we can't run $1.6 billion

10 losses over the first half of the year. So

11 we are limited in what we can do.

12 But we know the power of the full-time

13 driver, and we know the power that giving a

14 full-time driver an income does -- like I

15 said, I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't

16 the case.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: And you have a

18 section of your testimony referencing fake

19 Uber or TNCs, fake drivers or fake --

20 MR. MESSADOS: Yes.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: So if you're getting

22 into a vehicle that in theory you've ordered

23 through an app, you pay them through the app.

24 So how do these fake vehicles get payments?

511

1 I'm confused.

2 MR. MESSADOS: Because -- so this

3 actually comes down to, also, the flood of

4 drivers onto the streets. Our streets and

5 particularly our hotels are mayhem. And so

6 when passengers are trying to get into a car,

7 you have these straight plates, non-TLC

8 regulated vehicle, and they put an Uber sign

9 in their window, and when you have this -- I

10 would love to just take you on a tour of JFK

11 at rush hour. It's a nightmare.

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, I'm from

13 New York City. I know JFK at rush hour.

14 MR. MESSADOS: So Uber's process --

15 I'll use Uber as an example, because they're

16 the one I'm the most familiar with -- is you

17 have the driver's name and you have his

18 license plate number. So you can go and do a

19 three-point check, and then check.

20 But too often the drivers say, "Oh,

21 the app's not working." This stuff does

22 happen on the app legitimately as well -- the

23 app doesn't work, you email customer service,

24 and you figure it out. But these drivers

512

1 instead use Square readers, or they say "Just

2 give me $30 in cash." And when you get

3 there, it's a $70 fare and a fight with a

4 driver who was never licensed and vetted in

5 the first place.

6 So that's a huge issue. And the

7 bigger problem is that we can't even fix it

8 because it's so difficult to identify where

9 these problem cars are.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: So they claim

11 they're a driver for X company to get you in

12 the car. Then they're not part of the app

13 system --

14 MR. MESSADOS: Yup.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Hence you don't pay

16 them through the app. They say it will be

17 $30, and then how do they charge you 70?

18 They made a verbal deal.

19 MR. MESSADOS: They use a Square

20 reader, which you can get for free, and you

21 just link it to your bank account and plug it

22 into your phone.

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: And so people just

24 get suckered into paying the same way as for

513

1 years people got suckered into paying above

2 the meter when they were using Yellow Cabs at

3 the airport.

4 MR. MESSADOS: Exactly. The

5 difference is at least the Yellow Cab driver

6 was vetted and he was safe and that he just

7 charged you money.

8 You don't know what's going to

9 happen -- and that's actually why, in my

10 testimony, I put that in quotations. Just

11 type that three-word phrase, "fake Uber car"

12 and "news," you will see how many times this

13 happens and how slippery of a slope it is

14 from allowing ride share to allowing chaos.

15 Which my job right now is to fix

16 chaos, and I'm just hoping that you can avoid

17 chaos completely with the bill you're working

18 on now.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you for your

20 testimony.

21 MR. MESSADOS: Thank you for the time.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

23 Kevin Barwell, president of Limousine,

24 Bus, Taxi Operators of Upstate New York.

514

1 MR. BARWELL: Thank you. Thank you,

2 Chairman, and members of the Senate and

3 Assembly, for allowing me the opportunity to

4 speak here before you today.

5 My name is Kevin Barwell. I'm an

6 owner of three transportation companies

7 located in Rochester, Buffalo, and Mayville,

8 New York. I'm also the president of the

9 Limousine, Bus, and Taxi Operators of Upstate

10 New York. We are a trade organization

11 representing roughly 60 to 70 companies and

12 small businesses throughout the upstate area

13 in all the major cities such as Buffalo,

14 Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Jamestown,

15 Elmira, and Binghamton.

16 Our members are part of an industry

17 that employs over 80,000 individuals

18 statewide. We live in New York State and

19 spend the money in New York State and pay

20 taxes in New York State and in the local

21 economies. Our member companies contribute

22 to their local economy buying vehicles,

23 services, and other goods which generate tax

24 revenue for the municipalities and State of

515

1 New York. Many of our members help

2 contribute towards the $25 million that's

3 collected annually for sales tax on

4 transportation services. Our members have

5 helped spur economic activity in New York

6 State since 1986.

7 Many of the elected officials have

8 called for the enactment of the laws allowing

9 the so-called Transportation Network

10 Companies or ride-sharing companies, such as

11 Uber and Lyft, to operate in upstate

12 New York. Many of the elected officials and

13 members of chambers of commerces and tourism

14 organizations have been misled into believing

15 that Uber and Lyft are allowed to operate in

16 New York City, but not in upstate New York.

17 However, there is no special laws in

18 New York City for TNCs. Uber and Lyft and

19 many other companies, ride-sharing companies,

20 currently abide by all of the same New York

21 City laws as for-hire vehicles presently are.

22 Like in New York City, there is

23 nothing that prohibits Uber and Lyft from

24 operating now in upstate New York if they

516

1 choose to comply with the laws. These are

2 very simple things that they could operate

3 presently. And for the amount of money that

4 they've spent just basically on lobbying to

5 try and change the laws, they could already

6 presently have roughly 40 cars running in

7 every major city in upstate New York

8 presently.

9 The TNCs provide the exact same

10 for-hire services as limousines and taxis.

11 The only difference is that TNCs are

12 dispatched by an app, which does not change

13 the nature of the service -- and many, in

14 fact, many limousines and taxi companies now

15 are dispatching and operating through apps as

16 well.

17 And ironically, it's interesting that

18 we're sitting here and talking about this

19 subject, as for decades now, limousines and

20 taxis have been pooled together to operate

21 under the same for-hire laws. Which taxis

22 and limousines operate differently, as taxis

23 operate on a mileage basis and limousines

24 basically operate on an hourly basis, yet the

517

1 TNCs are being considered different than

2 them, and they operate very similarly to

3 taxis.

4 So again, they're trying to say that

5 they are different than the other -- than the

6 rest of us. But again, the taxis and

7 limousines are being put through the gamut of

8 saying that they are different and

9 shouldn't -- and the TNCs are different than

10 them and shouldn't be following the same

11 practice.

12 While we believe that the TNCs can

13 operate under existing laws, we realize that

14 special laws for TNCs are being proposed by

15 the Governor. If the TNC laws are enacted,

16 we believe that certain provisions and

17 protections must be in whichever law is

18 enacted, to protect and ensure the fairness

19 to the people of New York State and to the

20 existing for-hire vehicle companies and

21 drivers.

22 These provisions are, number one,

23 background checks -- background checks are

24 very important, and it seems that the TNCs

518

1 have been avoiding this pretty aggressively.

2 While many of the existing laws require taxi

3 and limousine drivers to undergo

4 fingerprinting, biometric background checks,

5 drug and alcohol testing, criminal and civil

6 background -- also medical physicals -- the

7 proposed laws would allow TNCs to use

8 name-based checks, which are not as reliable,

9 as some of my predecessors that have come up

10 here have already explained.

11 In New York City, every Uber and Lyft

12 driver has to undergo a fingerprint-based

13 background check. People in upstate New York

14 deserve the same type of protection.

15 We need to have a statewide standard

16 which protects all of the people of New York

17 State. People should have the same

18 protection under -- with background checks,

19 with fingerprinting. As well as the drivers

20 that are driving, they should also have the

21 same protection with workers' compensation,

22 overtime wages. They should also be able to

23 at least get minimum wage, where in many

24 cases many of these drivers do not get

519

1 minimum wage. And also unemployment taxes as

2 well should be employed on that as well.

3 Our organization spent thousands of

4 dollars to do a poll in upstate New York in

5 all the major cities, which you can see in

6 the packet we have given you -- in the back

7 there is the polls. What'll you see is that

8 though many people do -- and these polls were

9 done with all people of different

10 backgrounds, different social levels,

11 different political parties. You'll see that

12 however many people do favor ride sharing --

13 and we aren't opposed, as long as there's a

14 fair playing field and there is protection

15 for all the citizens -- you'll find that

16 66 percent of the people favored ride

17 sharing. However, many people -- I mean, an

18 overwhelming majority of the voters say that

19 the same ride-sharing rules should apply to

20 the whole state.

21 After being informed that Uber and

22 Lyft drivers are required to be fingerprinted

23 in New York City, an overwhelming 86 percent

24 majority of voters say the same rules should

520

1 apply for ride-sharing services in the whole

2 state. This sentiment is intensely held

3 across demographics, including ideology,

4 party, and geography. Also, it's important

5 to note that 86 percent of the parents say

6 the same rules should apply across the state.

7 Secondly, we also think things that

8 should be applied as well is the regulations

9 for for-hires in all municipalities. We are

10 a home-rule state, and it's important that

11 all of the municipalities have the same

12 opportunities to regulate in their

13 communities. We are not all the same across

14 the state. New York City is different than

15 Buffalo, as Jamestown is different than

16 Rochester. People operate differently, and

17 those communities should have the ability to

18 do the same regulations.

19 The regulation of for-hire vehicles

20 have traditionally been exercised by local

21 municipalities under their police powers.

22 Local officials have the best perspective

23 about types and numbers of for-hire vehicles

24 that they need and are in the best position

521

1 to determine the type of protection they want

2 to protect their riders through background

3 checks.

4 Many TNC proposals would create one

5 standard in the state where municipalities

6 have populations ranging from several hundred

7 to millions. This makes no sense, and the

8 state should respect the authority of the

9 local municipalities to exercise these

10 powers.

11 And also in -- we do require that the

12 bus, taxis, and limosine provided -- also

13 that each one of those areas should make

14 exceptions for disabilities as well. Because

15 in the present proposal from the Governor,

16 this is not in there.

17 Next, sales tax. Depending on the

18 types of for-hire vehicles, the for-hire

19 vehicles may pay sales tax or an MTA

20 surcharge. The TNCs will add thousands of

21 new vehicles that will make millions and

22 millions of trips across New York State's

23 roads. The TNCs should pay their fair share

24 to help pay for the roads and the

522

1 infrastructure.

2 Right now with the for-hires we are

3 collecting $25 million in sales tax. The

4 present budget -- the present proposal from

5 the Governor asks for a 5.5 percent

6 assessment fee. The Senate passed one with a

7 2.5 percent assessment fee, and with this

8 none of the municipalities will be allowed to

9 charge sales tax and it will be -- none of

10 that money is going to those municipalities.

11 Which right now, our operators are

12 collecting sales tax in our communities, and

13 those -- part of that sales tax does go back

14 to the community, whether it's in, you know,

15 in each one of those municipalities. Like

16 presently, in Buffalo, we're collecting

17 8.75 percent, with portions of that going to

18 the local communities. The same thing in

19 Mayville, Jamestown area, and in Rochester.

20 And then finally, one of the largest

21 expenses for existing for-hire vehicle owners

22 is insurance. For-hire vehicle owners are

23 often required to obtain expensive commercial

24 insurance which is in effect 24/7. Under

523

1 proposed TNC laws, TNC vehicle owners would

2 be able to opt in and opt out of the

3 insurance to supplement their personal

4 insurance. We have seen this time and time

5 again as our predecessors again have said

6 that at times this option does not work

7 because operators -- people are going to be

8 picking up people and going from one job to

9 the next job, they aren't covered. And that

10 again is not covering the driver. If that's

11 not covering the driver through the

12 insurance, we're not covering them through

13 worker's compensation. So if they do get in

14 an accident, they do not have worker's

15 compensation, they do not have unemployment,

16 they do not have any insurance. So who is

17 going to take care of these people if they

18 are injured and disabled now from an

19 accident?

20 And finally, it is imperative that we

21 protect the riders and drivers with

22 protection through background fingerprint

23 checking, drug and alcohol and criminal

24 background checks, to ensure that they have

524

1 the protection and the proper wages,

2 insurance, hours of operation, and medical

3 and compensation protection, and that all the

4 companies in New York State operate fairly at

5 an even competition.

6 Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Questions?

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

10 MR. BARWELL: Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Berj Haroutunian,

12 president, Vital Transportation Inc., and Ira

13 Goldstein, executive director, Black Car

14 Fund. Together.

15 MR. HAROUTUNIAN: I guess by now it's

16 good evening.

17 My name is Berj Haroutunian. I'm the

18 president of the Black Car Assistance

19 Corporation, which is the BCAC. The BCAC is

20 the largest and oldest black car and limo

21 operator trade organization in the New York

22 metro area. Thank you for giving me the

23 opportunity to testify before this esteemed

24 committee.

525

1 I am also the president of Vital

2 Transportation, a 34-year-old cooperative

3 owned by the drivers. Vital has

4 approximately 290 drivers, each of whom is a

5 small business owner, and we provide

6 approximately 340,000 rides per year to our

7 600-plus clients.

8 At the outset, I think it is important

9 to note that the BCAC -- right away, the

10 BCAC, which represents over 10,000 cars, is

11 not against ride hailing or what are commonly

12 referred to as transportation network

13 companies, or TNCs. However, we do believe

14 that the public and long-time existing

15 businesses do deserve a level playing field

16 with respect to safety and competition.

17 Many articles quote politicians and

18 the public as saying that upstate New York

19 deserves ride-hailing services just like

20 downstate New York. I could not agree more,

21 with one important caveat. TNCs, or what is

22 commonly referred to by the misnomer "ride

23 sharing," do not exist in New York City. All

24 these so-called TNCs are fully licensed and

526

1 regulated as black car bases.

2 What does this mean? It means that

3 the businesses are subject to all local

4 regulations on the same basis as any other

5 business. It means drivers undergo

6 fingerprints, background checks, and vehicles

7 are inspected three times a year. Vehicles

8 are clearly marked as for-hire vehicles in

9 their license plates and registration

10 stickers. All vehicles must have

11 $100,000/$300,000 in insurance. All for-hire

12 vehicle bases are subject to a point

13 violation systems where a base can lose its

14 license for serious violations of the Taxi

15 and Limousine Commission's rules.

16 Drivers are also held to a lower

17 threshold of DMV points before they are

18 subject to a suspension or revocation of

19 their TLC driver's license than a

20 noncommercial driver.

21 So I ask you, should upstate and

22 Long Island passengers be subjected to

23 sub-standard safety requirements?

24 Local municipalities should be allowed

527

1 to regulate the TNCs. While there is a

2 carve-out for New York City, there are other

3 circumstances which would warrant enlarging

4 the carve-out to the Metropolitan Commuter

5 Transportation District, MCTD. A majority of

6 the MCTD already have taxi and limousine

7 commissions with reciprocity agreements under

8 state law. Border counties to New York City

9 need to be able to regulate the TNCs, not

10 only because they tend to be denser

11 populations that cause safety concerns that

12 the local municipality would know best how to

13 handle, but to also prevent the TNC companies

14 from registering their vehicles just outside

15 of New York City and coming in and poaching

16 city business.

17 Illegal street hails are already

18 rampant during peak hours, and at least one

19 ride-hail company is operating in a

20 neighboring county to New York City. With

21 the new TNCs having personal vehicle plates

22 and removable dress code or signage, it would

23 be virtually impossible for any TLC to

24 enforce against illegal activity.

528

1 Other major cities should also have

2 local ability to regulate the TNCs. One size

3 does not fit all when you are comparing urban

4 areas to rural areas of New York.

5 Other issues include the creation of a

6 new category of FHVs, as previously

7 mentioned, called TNCs -- except some

8 language explicitly excludes them from being

9 considered a subset of the FHV category. All

10 FHV black cars, limos, liveries and TNCs

11 should be considered FHVs. They all

12 transport passengers for money. Various

13 versions of TNC bills treat the TNCs

14 differently for tax purposes.

15 It is time to remove the different

16 treatment of FHVs and achieve parity between

17 the different categories. If one category of

18 FHV pays sales tax, then ail categories

19 should. Tax incentives motivate business

20 decisions. Treating the various FHV

21 categories differently again creates

22 competitive inequities and will artificially

23 drive the market to otherwise unwarranted

24 change.

529

1 Thank you. Thank you for your time.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

3 MR. PALUMBO: Thank you for the

4 committee, joint committee, to allow me to

5 testify today.

6 My name is Guy Palumbo. I am the

7 director of driver education for the Black

8 Car Fund. I am testifying in place of

9 Ira Goldstein -- some of you know him, I

10 believe -- who unfortunately has a very bad

11 sore throat and couldn't make it up to you

12 today.

13 The New York Black Car Operators'

14 Injury Compensation Fund was created by

15 statute back in 1999 to provide workers'

16 compensation coverage and other benefits for

17 the black car operators in the State of

18 New York. The statute was signed into law by

19 Governor Pataki in May 1999. In October of

20 1999 the billing, collecting, and remitting

21 portion of the statute took effect. In

22 January of 2000, workers' compensation

23 coverage for drivers affiliated with member

24 bases took effect.

530

1 In later years, the Black Car Fund

2 adopted a shorter title from the full one I

3 mentioned before which was the -- I guess

4 that's the other one, that was -- known

5 simply as the Black Car Fund.

6 The statute covers all drivers of the

7 Black Car Fund member bases in the State of

8 New York, although 98 percent of our

9 companies are based in the greater New York

10 area -- and then, I should say the New York

11 area, the New York City metropolitan area --

12 yes, it is. The bases must become members of

13 the Black Car Fund if they meet the criteria.

14 The criteria state that it must be -- they

15 must -- they cannot own more than 50 percent

16 of their vehicles, and 90 percent of their

17 income must be noncash basis.

18 The Fund derives its income from a

19 2.5 percent surcharge which is billed and

20 collected by its member bases from their

21 clients and then remitted to the fund.

22 Today the fund has over 300 members,

23 and collectively there are 50,000 affiliated

24 vehicles. The fund is a not-for-profit

531

1 corporation, and it's fiscally responsible.

2 In its 17-year history, the fund has had to

3 raise the surcharge only once, and that was

4 during the recession in 2007. As stated

5 previously, the surcharge is not paid by

6 members of the base or the drivers, it is

7 paid by the consumers.

8 Over time, the fund became self-funded

9 and self-administered. The fund has paid its

10 own claims and has its own in-house adjusters

11 and claims staff. As such, the fund is

12 ideally suited to provide the same

13 exceptional service to the transportation

14 network companies throughout the state at a

15 significantly lower rate than forming a new

16 workers' compensation fund.

17 As a point of information, I wanted to

18 clarify -- and I think you've heard it here

19 before a couple of times -- that New York

20 City does not have TNCs. They are all

21 regulated by the Taxi and Limosine

22 Commission. They may call themselves TNCs,

23 but they are regulated in a full way by the

24 Taxi and Limosine Commission of New York.

532

1 And by definition, there is no ride sharing

2 in New York -- I'm saying New York City.

3 As the fund achieved financial

4 stability through all of the efficient claims

5 management, it offered more and more benefits

6 for the drivers. The fund is always

7 interested in promoting safety. Instead of

8 charging drivers to attend required defensive

9 driving courses, the fund pays for it, for

10 the defensive driving course, and in addition

11 pays the drivers $300 to attend that course.

12 We also have a wellness class, which

13 is half the time frame, and that course also

14 pays the driver, in this case $150. The

15 wellness class includes CPR, AMBER Alerts,

16 and supplemental driver safety training. And

17 this is something that we're very, very proud

18 of.

19 Just yesterday we announced a new

20 $50,000 death benefit for the drivers, and it

21 was awarded to a family retroactively

22 yesterday. This is a benefit that's being

23 added, and I believe the Councilman -- not

24 the Councilman, forgive me -- Assemblyman

533

1 Farrell, back when he was driving, that

2 $50,000 wasn't available.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: It was 60 years ago

4 that I was driving.

5 MR. PALUMBO: There was no TLC.

6 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yeah. There was no

7 TLC.

8 MR. PALUMBO: Drivers who work in a

9 high-risk condition deserve some peace of

10 mind. And that is in the event of a tragedy,

11 which we took care of with the family's

12 50,000. And like you said, it was just

13 yesterday, and you should probably be

14 receiving it in an email blast.

15 Safety isn't just about drivers, it's

16 also about riders. New York City riders know

17 that when they get in a black car that their

18 driver is responsible, safe, and committed.

19 And in fact, that's past the required

20 fingerprint check.

21 We are proud to say the Black Car

22 Fund, which has honed its business model for

23 17 years, provides an ideal benefit model for

24 the modern workforce and the emerging gig

534

1 economy. As a society, the country is

2 looking for solutions for how workers in the

3 gig economy can obtain portable benefits. In

4 New York City, drivers may work for multiple

5 companies in any given day, and their workers

6 compensation does in fact go with them.

7 Coverage remains intact and in effect without

8 interruption.

9 As the fund model becomes better

10 known, we have been contacted by many think

11 tanks, such as the Aspen Institute, and other

12 municipalities who are seeking ways to

13 provide traditional protections to

14 nontraditional workers, i.e., portable

15 benefits.

16 Thank you for giving me the

17 opportunity, and I'd be happy to answer any

18 questions that you may have.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

20 much.

21 Any questions?

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: We appreciate it.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for being

24 here today. Thank you for waiting so long,

535

1 too.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

3 Carley Hill, executive director,

4 The FAIR Committee, to close.

5 MS. HILL: "To close." Those are

6 probably your favorite words today.

7 This has been an education for me, and

8 I really admire the staying power -- this is

9 quite the marathon -- that you guys put forth

10 on behalf of the people of New York State.

11 And as I sat here today, I realized

12 how many diverse concerns there are that come

13 to Albany, and I really appreciate all the

14 attention.

15 I'd like to thank you for the

16 opportunity to hear this testimony. I'm the

17 chairwoman for an organization in Western

18 New York. We have a 35-year history of

19 voicing the concerns of labor suppliers,

20 engineers, and the contracting community. We

21 advocate for the needs-based allocation of

22 infrastructure funding, primarily for the

23 road, bridge, and transportation systems of

24 our community.

536

1 As the chairwoman of the organization,

2 as well as an employee of a heavy highway

3 family-owned construction firm, I come to ask

4 for your help and leadership with some

5 concerns that are facing our industry.

6 And I'll be blunt, this is the first

7 time that I've done this, and some of the

8 color in my commentary may not -- I hope you

9 don't take it personally, but in Western

10 New York we have some grave concerns about

11 some rose-colored glasses that seem to be on

12 when it comes to some of the funding

13 structures. I think you could hear it in

14 some of the testimony before me.

15 The flat fiscal funding that a lot of

16 the agencies are honorably bringing forth for

17 your review -- but what that's costing is not

18 only the brain drain in the engineering

19 communities, but also the sustainability of

20 our systems. And then the obvious fact that

21 there are always additional regulatory

22 requests that cause a greater drain on our

23 funding structure.

24 So I'm purely speaking from the men

537

1 and women who build the roads and bridges and

2 their perspective today.

3 The first point I have to share is

4 unfunded mandates. In New York State we have

5 one of the highest MWBE goal ambitions in the

6 country. The pressure this program puts on

7 the agencies as well as the entire

8 contracting community to achieve these goals

9 is unrealistic and outdated.

10 This program has been active for

11 30 years, and we have been waiting for a

12 disparity study that has yet to be released

13 on the results of the program. We are

14 beginning to wonder, what's the holdup? I am

15 routinely told by certified firms they cannot

16 bid our projects. The work is out of their

17 scope or they are already overly promising

18 their services.

19 I regularly am informed by agencies

20 that they are fearful of audits, that if we

21 can't get to the goal, they will be held

22 accountable with some form or another of

23 liquidated damages or a withdrawal of

24 funding. I have to remind them, paving

538

1 mainline highways is not like renovating post

2 offices, and the risk is entirely on the

3 contractor.

4 It took our company 65 years to earn

5 the reputation we have with agencies and the

6 public. To create true opportunity, we

7 recommend allowing firms such as ourselves

8 the opportunity to participate in a certified

9 mentoring and education program, perhaps,

10 designed to improve the abilities of up and

11 coming generations at managing a business,

12 keeping grade in the field, upholding

13 traffic-control methods.

14 This could have great impact. It is

15 definitely needed and would be a

16 forward-thinking, alternative approach to

17 instituting and attaining the goals of the

18 MWBE program which we honorably do our best

19 effort to get to. But in the horizontal

20 highway industry, it is absolutely

21 impossible. And the administrative burden

22 and the elevated cost of construction and

23 getting there is only being passed on to the

24 taxpayer, with no accountability for the

539

1 program's success. And we ask respectfully

2 that the Legislature demand that.

3 Safety improvements are vital to all

4 motorists in Western New York. We are

5 especially concerned with the lack of funding

6 for the upgrade of Route 219. Just last

7 month -- this is a very local issue, so

8 you'll have to pardon me -- a mother and her

9 three boys were in a --

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: No, we want to hear

11 all about it, Carley.

12 MS. HILL: Okay. That's true,

13 Senator. So you -- I'm speaking to your

14 heart on this. This is a member of your

15 community.

16 A mother and her three boys were in a

17 two-car accident when another vehicle ran the

18 stop sign at the absolutely deficient and

19 poorly designed 219 Peters Road exchange.

20 This mother has been in critical condition

21 for five weeks with over 15 fractured bones,

22 serious head injuries, and her children are

23 suffering from whiplash and damages.

24 If you haven't experienced it

540

1 yourself, this interchange yourself, let me

2 describe it for you. This incomplete,

3 slapdash intersection forces all traffic --

4 commercial, heavy trucks, tourists visiting

5 the regional destinations, buses -- to make a

6 non-intuitive transition from highway driving

7 to rural road maneuvering. This cluster

8 point puts rural motorists, Amish families,

9 as well as heavy truck traffic, in the

10 position of navigating swift reductions in

11 highway speeds to hard turns and deceleration

12 without any adequate transition.

13 There have been multiple accidents and

14 deaths along this sorely outdated trade and

15 tourism corridor. The FAIR Committee urges

16 the Legislature to demand that DOT follow

17 through on their financial commitment to the

18 EIS and do something about this before

19 someone else is killed. A properly funded,

20 phased upgrade is our recommendation.

21 Electronic toll collection. Although

22 the 21st-century system of electronic toll

23 collection has been embraced in cities and

24 countries around the world from Brazil,

541

1 London, Rome, Milan, Australia, Singapore to

2 Pakistan and France, it has yet to happen in

3 New York State. Other states which have

4 evolved include -- but are not limited to --

5 New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware,

6 California, Florida, Texas. Eighty percent,

7 1.4 million drivers, in Illinois alone use

8 these systems. It mitigates congestion,

9 creates job opportunities in technology

10 positions, provides efficiencies for trade

11 and trucking routes that are sorely needed in

12 our state.

13 How many people are sitting here with

14 a smartphone in their pocket right now? The

15 thought that the modernization of our

16 transportation system threatens our privacy

17 is completely unsubstantiated in the society

18 we live in today. The privacy concerns are

19 outdated alternative facts. Between e-cash

20 and modern cryptography methods, all the

21 consumer protections anyone would need is

22 more than sufficiently available.

23 Although -- and this is what I'd like

24 to stress, because this is something that I

542

1 know wasn't testified about today -- but

2 there now are thoughts of cutting the

3 New York State Thruway Authority's capital

4 program to establish these high-speed

5 electronic toll collection systems. And it

6 is real and it is foolhardy and it is

7 absolutely misguided.

8 The unfunded ambition will have an

9 especially devastating affect on labor in

10 Western New York. Due to the stagnant DOT

11 program, which honestly is a stagnant program

12 regardless of all the hard-won successes that

13 the Legislature has brought forward

14 recently -- due to that stagnated system,

15 regardless of our highly degraded Thruway

16 lane miles, Region 5 is counting on the

17 capital program of the New York State Thruway

18 Authority to keep our workforce and economy

19 going for the next several years. We plan

20 years in advance with our purchases and our

21 allocations of skilled labor.

22 For your reference, I'm just going to

23 point this out, if you ever do hear about

24 capital cuts. One $60 million capital

543

1 program cut for a project, just $60 million,

2 will eliminate roughly 200,000 tradesman and

3 trucking hours from the region with no

4 replacement. That's not to mention site

5 suppliers, management, support staff,

6 inspectors, food service, fuel deliveries --

7 and the list of economic drivers from these

8 capital projects just goes on.

9 And I just was looking through one of

10 our projects, and I realized that Union

11 Concrete had 120,000 man hours for one

12 $60 million project. Our subcontractors had

13 70,000 man hours. And of that, over

14 20 different firms were put to work. Of

15 that, 15 firms were either certified or

16 minority-owned. These are real numbers. And

17 what happens to the economy when capital

18 programs are cut is untenable.

19 If the capital programs cuts are to

20 happen, the leadership will be closing the

21 door on 200 jobs -- just a $60 million cut

22 alone -- that are desperately needed in this

23 horizontal construction field of Western

24 New York. We would like to highlight

544

1 high-speed toll collection is largely done by

2 out-of-state technology firms and does not

3 address the lane construction or bridge

4 improvements that are so needed.

5 These lane mile and overpass

6 improvements have been committed to by the

7 board of the New York State Thruway

8 Authority, and our community expects them to

9 honor these commitments. We are asking the

10 leadership to face reality, stop passing the

11 buck in increased idle times. Do not gut our

12 workforce, do not put off addressing the

13 safety risks, and really deal with the fact

14 that we have not been funding the true

15 reconstruction of an aging system. Our

16 preventative maintenance program is failing

17 us.

18 I can tell you honestly that we are

19 tired of sound bites and camera-ready moments

20 that fade and dim in the truth of inaction,

21 restrictive bureaucratic red tape, and the

22 lack of real delivery. The BRIDGE NY program

23 is burying the locals in administrative

24 redundancies as well as unnecessary

545

1 legislative approvals in the post-selection

2 delivery phase. Issues of getting DOT

3 agreement approvals, budget, design,

4 right-of-way, and construction agreements in

5 place will delay and drag this program out.

6 We have yet to see one successful program

7 delivered through that.

8 We respectfully ask the Legislature

9 and the DOT to take the shackles off of the

10 locals by reducing these overarching and

11 controlling measures. Trust the people who

12 you selected, or we fear that everyone will

13 be looking at two years of a program that has

14 nothing to show for itself.

15 My final comments are with regard to

16 the significant concerns we have with the

17 deep divisions between the state and the

18 Nation. Specifically, in Western New York, I

19 am referring to the Great Seneca Nation.

20 Someone here needs to put on some big

21 boy pants -- or girl pants, we'll take them.

22 Whatever it is, we need something to happen.

23 There's a wall, and it seems as though it's

24 us versus them, and no one can get over it.

546

1 Such a level of maturity and cooperation does

2 not appear to be forthcoming from any of the

3 leadership any time soon with anyone we speak

4 to.

5 Agencies ask us for help. There's a

6 real problem of getting through that.

7 Bridges have been closed for years. The

8 Thruway is deteriorating beyond belief --

9 the Thruway, actually the speed zone has been

10 dropped to 45 in that area. And the other

11 thing is that -- and this is harder to prove,

12 but the fact of it is is that the economy of

13 this furthest region of New York State, due

14 to the inability to deal with this

15 relationship challenge, is starting to really

16 stagnate. It's starting to really show the

17 effects of that frayed relationship.

18 We employ many tradespeople from the

19 Nation, we look forward to working with them

20 as a stakeholder. In the past, we've had

21 great relationships. There's benefits for

22 all. But we are frustrated with the

23 inability of appointed or elected officials

24 locally to find a path through this

547

1 challenging course. It is doing severe

2 damage to the western edge of the state's

3 trade corridor, and all the investment that

4 has been made from points east and west of

5 the Nation's territories will suffer along

6 with it.

7 Our collective progress is the key to

8 our growth, and we beseech you to look within

9 your own strengths and bring that to the

10 table and respect the voice of others without

11 losing your own and show us how leadership,

12 vision and cooperation can really work.

13 In Western New York, this system is

14 failing us, and we are struggling in the

15 heavy highway industry to stay afloat, much

16 less grow. I'm a third generation, and I can

17 tell you right now there's not growth

18 happening in our company -- not for me, and

19 not for my employees. It is so uninspiring

20 and disappointing to see the potential and

21 our history as the greatest state in the

22 nation squandered. I don't know what to say

23 when our employees ask why there aren't more

24 hours, or how will we keep the pensions

548

1 alive, or should they get that new car or

2 make that home improvement this year.

3 You don't repair the first and second

4 floor of your home without fixing the stairs,

5 and I can tell you the treads on the

6 transportation stairs are worn out and there

7 are people already falling through the

8 cracks.

9 As much as there's pomp and

10 circumstance on delivery notifications about

11 opportunities, we're really not feeling it in

12 Western New York.

13 And I really appreciate the

14 opportunity to address that. Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

16 much.

17 That's it.

18 MS. HILL: No questions?

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Tomorrow at 9:30,

20 we start again.

21 (Whereupon, the budget hearing concluded

22 at 6:29 p.m.)

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