Public Hearing - October 22, 2014

    


       1      BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE
              STANDING COMMITTEE ON MENTAL HEALTH AND
       2      DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES
              ------------------------------------------------------
       3
                                 PUBLIC HEARING
       4
                      TO EXAMINE SUPPORTS AND SERVICES FOR
       5             INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES DEALING WITH
                        MENTAL ILLNESS IN NEW YORK STATE
       6
              ------------------------------------------------------
       7

       8
                               Rockland Community College, RCC 3214
       9                       145 College Avenue
                               Suffern, New York 10901
      10
                               October 22, 2014
      11                       11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

      12

      13
              PRESIDING:
      14
                 Senator David Carlucci
      15         Chair

      16
              PRESENT:
      17
                 Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee
      18         Member of the Assembly Mental Health Committee

      19

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25







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       1
              SPEAKERS:                               PAGE  QUESTIONS
       2
              Glenn Liebman                              5
       3      CEO
              Mental Health Association of
       4           New York State (MHANYS)

       5      Dan Lukens                                20
              Executive Director
       6      Camp Venture

       7      John Murphy                               20
              County Legislator
       8      Rockland County, New York

       9      Paige Pierce                              30      70
              Executive Director Families Together
      10
              Jeremy Kohomban                           30      70
      11      President and CEO
              Avrill Lindsay Dennis
      12      Division Director
              The Children's Village
      13           and Harlem Dowling

      14      Gabrielle Horowitz-Prisco                 30      70
              Director, Juvenile Justice Program
      15      Correctional Association of New York

      16      Toni Lasicki                              81
              Executive Director
      17      The Association for Community Living

      18      Mary Grace Ferone                         93
              Program Manager
      19      Legal Services of the Hudson Valley

      20      Neil Weiss                                97
              Parent-Advocate
      21      Topic: Eating Disorders

      22      R. Doug Bunnell                           97
              National Clinical Development Officer
      23           and Clinical Director
              Monte Nido
      24

      25







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       1
              SPEAKERS (Continued):                   PAGE  QUESTIONS
       2
              Edgardo Sanchez                          120     129
       3      A Parent
              Topic: Mental-Health Supports & Svcs
       4
              Ilana Slaff-Galaten                      120
       5      A Parent
              Topic: Mental-Health Supports & Svcs
       6
              Susan Kent                               141
       7      President
              Public Employees Federation (PEF)
       8
              Diana Siegel                             150     153
       9      Representative of
              NAMI Familya
      10

      11                            ---oOo---

      12

      13

      14

      15

      16

      17

      18

      19

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25







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       1             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Good morning.

       2             I want to welcome everyone to our hearing on

       3      mental-health support and services in

       4      New York State.

       5             And, I'm Senator David Carlucci.  I chair the

       6      Committee on Mental Health and Developmental

       7      Disabilities.

       8             And, I want to thank everyone for coming

       9      here.

      10             The idea here today is, we'll hear a broad

      11      range of issues, all dealing with mental-health

      12      supports and services in New York State.

      13             The idea is to get it on the record so that

      14      we have a blueprint, that we have an agenda, going

      15      into the next legislative session, that we can

      16      really address the issues at hand.

      17             We know there's some really changing times

      18      when it deals with the mental-health community.

      19             And what's important is, I want to make sure

      20      everybody's voice is heard.  That we hear about the

      21      experiences that you're having, the situations that

      22      you're going through, so that we can work together

      23      to address them.

      24             This past legislative session we had many

      25      successes.







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       1             We're still waiting for the Governor to sign

       2      some legislation.

       3             And, we're hopeful that that will pass, and

       4      really continue the work that all of you have done,

       5      to make sure we provide the best level of support

       6      for people living with mental illness here in

       7      New York State.

       8             So with that, we'll get right to the

       9      speakers.

      10             Our first speaker is Glenn Liebman, who is

      11      the CEO of the Mental Health Association of

      12      New York State.

      13             Glenn.

      14             GLENN LIEBMAN:  Good morning, Senator.

      15             I want to thank you, first, for holding this

      16      hearing, and recognizing the needs of community

      17      mental health.

      18             In your time as Chair, you've been a real

      19      champion for our community, and it's greatly

      20      appreciated.

      21             My name is Glenn Liebman.  I'm CEO of the

      22      Mental Health Association in New York State.

      23             Our organization is comprised of

      24      30 affiliates in 52 counties throughout the state.

      25             Our members provide community-based







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       1      mental-health services, but we also are very

       2      involved with education and community advocacy.

       3             Many of our members, including our affiliate

       4      right here in Rockland County, advocate passionately

       5      for community services, children's mental-health

       6      services...the whole gamut of services that you have

       7      strongly supported us on.

       8             Today on the mental-health system, though, we

       9      sit on the precipice of change.

      10             The system of care is undergoing changes that

      11      are unprecedented since the days of

      12      deinstitutionalization.

      13             And, I think it's so important that we do

      14      not -- there were some positives that came out of

      15      deinstitutionalization, but there were a lot of

      16      failures.  And a lot of the failures, frankly, were

      17      because the community service system was not

      18      well-funded.  We were deinstitutionalizing thousands

      19      of people and not giving them appropriate

      20      community-support services.

      21             And, we want to make sure that, in these

      22      changes, that there remain safeguards in place, and

      23      essential services as well.

      24             So whether you're talking about health homes,

      25      Medicaid managed care, DSRIP, FIDA, HARPs, you name







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       1      the acronym, we've gone through about 20 acronyms in

       2      the last two years, all new ones, all bring with

       3      them significant challenges, but, also, we believe,

       4      significant opportunities.

       5             Our members are very engaged with the changes

       6      in care.  Many of the people we serve will be in the

       7      Health and Recovery Plan services (the HARPs).  They

       8      will have enhanced 1959 waiver services.

       9             What this means really, in layperson's term,

      10      and I know you know this, is that so much of the

      11      work that the MHAs have done for years in

      12      community engagement, peer services, family support,

      13      support education...the whole gamut...employment,

      14      prison/jail diversion, et cetera, will now become

      15      Medicaid-able, which will provide an enhanced

      16      funding source.

      17             This creates great opportunity to expand the

      18      base of the services that we know help in recovery.

      19             The combination of sound clinical care, with

      20      access to best practices, appropriate access to

      21      medication, and the myriad of recovery services, are

      22      integral to the continuum of care.

      23             There are no cookie-cutter ways to recovery.

      24      Individuals need options.

      25             The more active use of waiver services, the







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       1      great hope is that individual options will continue

       2      to expand.

       3             It will, of course, means that health plans

       4      will also be active partners in Medicaid managed

       5      care, and we have to educate them about the services

       6      that we provide, while they will be educating us

       7      about their areas of expertise.

       8             We also will have to be educated about

       9      Medicaid billing and other ancillary services.

      10             We will be working with the State to help in

      11      the development of the training and funding for the

      12      billing of Medicaid.

      13             This is like one of those issues that people

      14      aren't talking about as much, but it's really

      15      significant, because a lot of our MHAs are small

      16      operations.

      17             Yes, we have a very large, effective MHA here

      18      in Rockland, but, a lot of our MHAs throughout

      19      New York State, we're talking about four- or

      20      five-people operations.  And for them to start

      21      billing Medicaid?  They don't know, it's like

      22      learning Latin.  It's all something that's so new to

      23      them.

      24             And we have to make sure to be vigilant with

      25      the State, to ensure there's preparedness money to







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       1      help with the -- you know, with Medicaid billing.

       2             There are many things in the existing system

       3      that are, and always have been, recovery-oriented,

       4      and play a significant role in keeping people in the

       5      community and out of the hospital.

       6             We want to make sure that these programs

       7      remain in place as a safety net for individuals with

       8      psychiatric disabilities.

       9             Community systems have always been integral

      10      to recovery.  A system of care must remain in place

      11      through local assistance funding.

      12             And you've been a real champion on this.

      13             The movement to Medicaid managed care should

      14      not be used as a rationale for cutting local

      15      assistance funding.

      16             These waiver services for many community

      17      services could very well be a good thing that will

      18      significantly improve outcomes, but it will not

      19      happen overnight.  We have to ensure that local

      20      assistance funding continues to exist in the future.

      21             We also have to be concerned about those

      22      individuals who will drop out during these changes.

      23             The sad reality is, that no matter how

      24      thoughtful the design and implementation, there will

      25      be people who will be confused by the changes and







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       1      will be lost to the public system of care.

       2             We must find a way to help these individuals

       3      not fall through the cracks, and to help bridge

       4      their interactions between themselves and their new

       5      partners in the health plans.

       6             This should include the creation of a hotline

       7      Ombuds-function program that will work with the

       8      health plans, the State, and the individuals to help

       9      amicably resolve outstanding issues.

      10             Through our members across New York State,

      11      many of which run hot- and warm-lines, including the

      12      MHA of New York City, which runs the national

      13      suicide-prevention line, we would have capacity in

      14      New York State to run such a project.

      15             The bottom line, though, is there is no

      16      system of care is better than the people who are

      17      running the programs.

      18             We must have a fully engaged and financially

      19      supported workforce.

      20             I want to really personally thank you,

      21      Senator.  You fought as hard for the COLA as anyone

      22      ever has for the direct-care workforce.

      23             We -- you know, having worked in Albany for

      24      many years, you hear a lot of stories.

      25             And we heard how you went to the mat for us







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       1      in terms of COLAs for our direct-care staff.

       2             So, we are so appreciative.

       3             You are a real champion, and we cannot thank

       4      you enough for all you did in that regard.

       5             We will have to continue that fight for

       6      better incentives for the workforce through

       7      additional financial incentives, enhancements for

       8      the mental-health workforce, tuition reimbursements,

       9      career ladders, and other programs.

      10             When we talk about the program, we also

      11      recognize the importance of hospital and bed

      12      closures done in a thoughtful, planful manner.

      13             MHANYS was on the frontline in support of

      14      both the Governor's Center of Excellence plan and

      15      the work of the Legislature.

      16             We are pleased to see these pre-investment

      17      services are beginning to be funded around the

      18      state.

      19             The Office of Mental Health should be

      20      commended for their work in getting the funding out

      21      to the community.

      22             Programs, the community stakeholders have

      23      said our priority, like housing, mobile, and

      24      crisis -- other crisis services, peer support,

      25      ACT teams, et cetera, are being funded.







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       1             I know that in the lower Hudson River region,

       2      there was an announced distribution of $2.25 million

       3      for these services.  Adding other ancillary

       4      services, it came to $3.2 million.

       5             And we are appreciative of the Governor, and

       6      we are appreciative of you, Senator, and the other

       7      legislators, for this important pre-investment

       8      funding that will go a long way to helping provide

       9      essential services.

      10             We hope to continue the State's commitment in

      11      the future, recognizing the over 40 million

      12      annualized, statewide, for these services, with a

      13      continued emphasis on those priority areas,

      14      especially around housing.

      15             We know New York does more than any other

      16      state in community housing, but even more has to be

      17      done, because so much of the basis of recovery is

      18      housing safe and secure -- is housing and secure --

      19      is safe and secure housing.

      20             So, to encapsulate that point, a

      21      recommendation:

      22             I just want to help to ensure and support the

      23      successful transition to Medicaid managed care;

      24             Continue to ensure that funding is in place

      25      for our community-based services for local







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       1      assistance;

       2             And, Medicaid managed care cannot be a

       3      vehicle for cutting this funding.

       4             Thirdly, a strong role should be in place to

       5      ensure that those are individuals who have concerns

       6      about the changes to managed care have a responsive

       7      system in place through an Ombuds program.

       8             And the final -- well, two more

       9      recommendations:

      10             Continue to find funding opportunities and

      11      other incentives for the underpaid mental-health

      12      workforce;

      13             And, ensure that new reinvestment funding is

      14      fully funded.

      15             And I know that you will be vigilant in that

      16      end, and you have done a great job in that end,

      17      around community priority areas: around housing, and

      18      mobile crisis.

      19             The second, just briefly, I just want to talk

      20      about the second area, which I've talked to you

      21      about before, and you have been a great supporter,

      22      and that's mental-health literacy.  And we just

      23      don't talk enough about that.

      24             There's a whole other chapter when it comes

      25      to addressing concerns about people with psychiatric







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       1      disabilities, and that includes ending the stigma of

       2      mental illness and educating the public about mental

       3      health.

       4             Again, thank you for your support in

       5      embracing one of our key training programs:

       6      mental-health first-aid.

       7             Through your leadership -- and I mean, your

       8      leadership; you were the one who was really

       9      responsible for this -- we were able to provide

      10      training to our members statewide on youth

      11      mental-health first-aid, including our members in

      12      Rockland County.

      13             Thanks to your leadership, Rockland, and

      14      other corners of the state, have will trainers

      15      available through the local MHAs to educate teachers

      16      and other school personnel on how to respond to a

      17      student's behavioral-health crisis.

      18             This training also serves as a great tool to

      19      help combat the stigma and discrimination of

      20      mental-health illness.

      21             That's great, and you've been incredibly

      22      supportive.

      23             Through your support and advocacy, and that

      24      of Assemblywoman Aileen Gunther, as well as our

      25      Education Chairs, Assemblywoman Nolan and







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       1      Senator Flanagan, we've made headway in the battle

       2      to bring mental-health education into the schools.

       3             The mental-health education bill made it

       4      further this year than it ever has in the past.  It

       5      passed the State Senate, and the movement -- and it

       6      moved to Ways and Means in the Assembly, which is

       7      the furthest it's ever gotten.

       8             If we are ever going to end the stigma of

       9      mental illness, we have to start at a young age.

      10             Educating our youth about suicide prevention,

      11      depression, anxiety, and other mental-health issues

      12      will not spread the illness.

      13             This is not like when -- it's just like when

      14      we whispered about cancer in the '60s and '70s.

      15      Like, if we said it, loudly, somehow people would

      16      contract the illness.

      17             We should be openly talking in schools about

      18      mental-health-related issues.

      19             Education about mental health in health

      20      classes would play a significant role in decreasing

      21      bullying, and providing greater understanding and

      22      empathy for those 1-in-5 youth with a psychiatric

      23      disability.

      24             We continue to urge your leadership in this

      25      important fight.  And we know you will be there for







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       1      us as you always have.

       2             We also urge your support in funding

       3      after-school services for those youth who have no

       4      place to go once school ends.

       5             And, also, we have to ramp up the need for

       6      more clinicians in schools.

       7             You know, unfortunately, the cuts to

       8      education in recent years have really negatively

       9      impacted these mental-health and counseling

      10      services.

      11             So, we're advocating strongly for more

      12      social workers in schools.

      13             And, we must continue to add our voice to

      14      those in college with mental-health issues.

      15             And I know I've broached this subject with

      16      you before, and you've been very responsive.

      17             I think what we should do, and this is just

      18      our perspective, is we should develop a survey to

      19      identify the services available across college

      20      campuses, including SUNY and CUNY schools and

      21      community colleges.

      22             This survey should then be put into a report

      23      to be shared with college-aged youth and their

      24      families across New York State who would find the

      25      information most useful.







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       1             It would be a great document.

       2             Can you imagine, you know, whether you're at

       3      Hofstra or SUNY Binghamton, or wherever you are, at

       4      Hudson Valley Community College, to have a guide

       5      for, if you have a child who has a psychiatric

       6      disability, who possibly might get one, you want to

       7      see what those services are in those schools.

       8             And I think that could be a very effective

       9      tool; so that's something we are certainly

      10      advocating for.

      11             And, finally, I'm asking our greatest

      12      champion in the cause in the Senate, to continue

      13      your fight for the mental-health tax check-off bill.

      14             As we know, it's passed the Assembly several

      15      times, but been stalled in the Senate.

      16             And no one has ever pushed harder than you

      17      have for that bill.

      18             I know the Senate has, historically, been

      19      against additional tax check-offs, but when it comes

      20      to ending the stigma of mental illness, it's time

      21      for a change.

      22             We urge your continued support and tireless

      23      efforts, as you've done on so many other agenda

      24      items, to fight to include, all we're looking for is

      25      a box, in the New York State income tax for







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       1      mental-health public awareness.

       2             In the hundreds of thousands of pieces of

       3      legislation, there should certainly be additional

       4      room for a small check-off box.

       5             So encapsulate -- just, briefly, to

       6      encapsulate the recommendations, there are

       7      four recommendations here:

       8             Continued support from MHANYS and our

       9      affiliates in providing school and other

      10      stakeholders in youth and adult mental-health

      11      first-aid.

      12             That's, clearly, the way that we are going to

      13      help stop the violence in school, help end the

      14      bullying, through youth mental-health first-aid.

      15             And we're already seeing it.

      16             And, in Rockland County already, they've done

      17      a lot of the training, to begin to raise training,

      18      so that's terrific.

      19             Secondly, continued support and leadership in

      20      the mental-health education bill, and for additional

      21      community funding for after-school programs, and

      22      inclusion of social workers and other clinicians in

      23      schools.

      24             Thirdly, developing a survey of mental-health

      25      services on existing college campuses, and create a







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       1      report to be shared with college-aged youth and

       2      their families.

       3             And, finally, passage of a mental-health tax

       4      check-off bill, to end the stigma of mental health

       5      and the stigma of mental illness.

       6             So, again, I can't thank you enough for all

       7      you've done.

       8             And I also want to add, you know,

       9      Evan Sullivan has been terrific to work with.  He's

      10      a great person, and very responsive as well.

      11             So we're lucky.

      12             You've been a great leader for us.  And Evan

      13      has been a great person to work with.

      14             So, if you have any questions?

      15             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Well, no, Glenn.  I really

      16      appreciate your leadership.

      17             And, this is great.

      18             Really what we need is a list of things to go

      19      through of what we need to address.

      20             So, so many great ideas, and look forward to

      21      working with you on all those issues.

      22             Thank you, Glenn.

      23             GLENN LIEBMAN:  Perfect.

      24             Thank you, Senator.

      25







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       1             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Next we'll hear from the

       2      executive director of Camp Venture, Dan Lukens.  And

       3      joined with him is a man of many hats, our county

       4      legislator, John Murphy.

       5             DAN LUKENS:  My name is Dan Lukens.  I'm the

       6      executive director of Camp Venture, a

       7      Rockland County-based agency serving people with

       8      developmental disabilities.

       9             Thank you for the opportunity to speak today

      10      on Olmsted and mental-health services as they relate

      11      to supports for people with developmental

      12      disabilities.

      13             Camp Venture is not a clinical-service

      14      provider, nor are we a mental-health provider, so

      15      our perspective is as a service consumer.

      16             A dual diagnosis of a developmental

      17      disability and mental illness is fairly common, and

      18      many of the people served by Rockland County

      19      developmental-disability agencies also need

      20      mental-health services.

      21             Providing these services to our population

      22      is, however, a very serious challenge for the

      23      mental-health system.

      24             I credit the new Nyack Hospital program that

      25      has been accepting our people, but I think it has







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       1      been a struggle for us and for them.

       2             People with developmental disabilities,

       3      especially our people who have very limited or no

       4      communication or self-care skills, are not typical

       5      for mental-health providers.

       6             A crisis program serving people with

       7      developmental disabilities not only has to surmount

       8      these problems, but they also must manage and

       9      protect people who are particularly vulnerable.

      10             The new environment that's being driven by

      11      Olmsted is built on two assumptions, I'd assert.

      12             First, that we can support people in the

      13      community; not just some people, but everybody.

      14             Second, it assumes that we can stabilize

      15      people in a short time, in a few days, and get them

      16      back to their lives.

      17             My experience with people with developmental

      18      disabilities in crisis is that they very often

      19      challenge that second assumption.  And if the person

      20      lives in a certified residence, they become a

      21      problem for that residence.

      22             Keep in mind that, a certified provider,

      23      people are living in close quarters.  It's a

      24      family-like environment, but they're unrelated

      25      individuals, and so a crisis becomes a crisis for







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       1      the entire residence.

       2             In the case of the individual living with

       3      their family or in more independent living

       4      situations, which will increasingly be the case,

       5      that's a burden that may fall on the family or

       6      others.

       7             In 2002, Camp Venture admitted a young woman.

       8      I'm going to call her "Mary."  Obviously, that's not

       9      her name.  Her primary diagnosis was autism.  She

      10      had, virtually, no communication or self-care

      11      skills.

      12             After she came to us, she experienced an

      13      acute psychiatric crisis that manifested severe

      14      self-injurious behavior.

      15             These behaviors were such that she needed to

      16      wear arm restraints to limit the impact of the blows

      17      that she could deliver to her head.

      18             She received community-based psychiatric

      19      care, but there was very little improvement.

      20             Finally, due to the tenacity of her family,

      21      her service coordinator, and people in the

      22      community, she was admitted to the

      23      Kennedy Krieger Institute in Maryland there.

      24             Mary was the focus of intensive analysis and

      25      treatment.







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       1             They got her off all her medications, and

       2      then they tried new ones under controlled

       3      conditions.

       4             They worked with her on rudimentary

       5      communication and self-care skills, and they

       6      development a regime of therapies and an intensive

       7      response.

       8             When she came back to us more than

       9      four months later, there was staff training for our

      10      people, so that she could retain the gains that she

      11      had accomplished over that time.

      12             And that's not typical.

      13             I'm sure -- other people, I'm sure, who are

      14      more familiar with the mental-health system, can

      15      tell you whether that's unusual or not.

      16             Mary was not all better.  She was certainly

      17      not cured.

      18             She didn't go back to a job, or anything.

      19      She continued to be a very impaired young woman.

      20             But in our -- the developmental-disability

      21      field, that's all we can hope for.

      22             I can't describe what it's like to see

      23      someone in the kind of despair that this young woman

      24      was in, or to see someone, a young person, whose

      25      face is reduced to swollen bruises.







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       1             We don't need dark places to throw people

       2      like Mary away, but we do need a way to treat the

       3      most serious, persistent, and complex people with

       4      mental illness.

       5             In this case, that care had to come from

       6      another state.

       7             The value we assign to people is not a

       8      setting, a place, or a utilization formula.  It's a

       9      commitment.

      10             And so, as we move forward, I hope that's

      11      something we'll consider.

      12             Thank you so much for your leadership, and

      13      for the opportunity to offer a few words today.

      14             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thanks, Dan.

      15             Legislator Murphy.

      16             JOHN MURPHY:  Allow me to reintroduce myself

      17      so you can put my remarks in context.

      18             I bring to this table 50 years of experience,

      19      not as a professional.

      20             My career began in the '60s with the

      21      Orange Town Narcotics Guidance Council.

      22             From there, I moved to Rockland Psychiatric

      23      Children's Center; and Rockland Psychiatric Center,

      24      where I still serve after 40 years.

      25             I'm the president of Camp Venture.







                                                                   25
       1             I'm also the founder and president of

       2      Loeb House.

       3             And I served for many years on the county

       4      Community Services Board, then-called the Board of

       5      Mental Health, Mental Retardation, Alcoholism

       6      Services.

       7             I say that to you because I think I bring an

       8      institutional memory and a broad, broad view of our

       9      shared worlds, but I'm going to concentrate just on

      10      one topic, the only topic in which I have some

      11      degree of expertise; and that's residential

      12      services.

      13             We must never forget that most of the people

      14      we all serve spend most of their life in a

      15      residence.  Every night, every weekend, in a

      16      residence.

      17             Compare those numbers to the hours they spend

      18      in a clinic, it's overwhelming.

      19             The residential-service element is the

      20      strongest single component for maintaining mental

      21      health.  And it's in crises, I tell you.  "Crises."

      22             And I'll tell you why.

      23             There is a push, undeniable, to push people

      24      through the system.

      25             They want to push them through Rockland







                                                                   26
       1      Psychiatric Center.

       2             They want to push them through the

       3      psychiatric hospitals.

       4             Where are they pushing them?

       5             They're pushing them to an impoverished and

       6      under-resourced field.

       7             We no longer, the State doesn't want to be in

       8      the real-estate business, and I appreciate that.

       9             The State has reduced the number of steps in

      10      the ladder to the best possible place to live.

      11             No more community residence.  No more

      12      treatment residences.

      13             They want to push them, primarily, to

      14      supervised apartments.

      15             And I'm going to -- I talk street talk, not

      16      professional talk.

      17             They're taking people who spent 20, 30 years

      18      in Rockland Psychiatric Hospital, and they're

      19      discharging them.

      20             To where?  To a supervised apartment?

      21             It's patently absurd, and I don't here a hue

      22      and a cry about it.

      23             If the State wants to move the people through

      24      the system to reduce costs, no longer-term care in

      25      Rockland Psychiatric Center, no long-term







                                                                   27
       1      hospitalization in the nursing homes, and such,

       2      I agree; but they have to enter a world where their

       3      adjustment to community life, where their adjustment

       4      to apartments, is staged.

       5             You cannot give me, as a provider of

       6      services -- and I don't actually -- my executive

       7      director, Tom Zimmerman is here -- you cannot send a

       8      person who has spent 25 years in Rockland

       9      Psychiatric Center to Tom [unintelligible].

      10             That's my point.

      11             Now, I think I have an answer.

      12             I support the Olmsted Act.

      13             I believe our people should be fully

      14      integrated into the community.

      15             They should not be stigmatized.  They should

      16      not be isolated.

      17             I believe they belong out there with us, but,

      18      but, in mixed-use non-certified residences.

      19             But, you have to give these residences a

      20      whole lot more resource than they have now.

      21             We're getting people with criminal records.

      22      We're getting people with sexual-offending records.

      23             These are people we never got before, and

      24      we're not resourced enough to do the right thing by

      25      them.







                                                                   28
       1             Now, my solution is very simple.

       2             New York State and the federal government

       3      have this huge amount of funding available for

       4      affordable housing.

       5             Okay?  It's for affordable housing.

       6             I think it has to be slightly tweaked so that

       7      we have a category of capital dollars available to

       8      build non-certified mixed-use housing tailored to

       9      not only the people who need support in every case

      10      of the word, but to our staff.

      11             We have the most underpaid -- our people make

      12      less money than the people in McDonald's.

      13             It speaks to our values, our priorities.

      14             It's absurd.

      15             And in this county, you need a lot of money

      16      to live, and you need a lot of money to pay rent.

      17             So what are we looking at?

      18             We're looking at an unresourced staff of

      19      people who provide hands-on care to our loved ones;

      20             We're looking at the Olmsted Act which

      21      insists that everybody be in mixed-use housing;

      22             And we're looking at the fact that the State

      23      is eliminating all of the many manifestation of

      24      residential services.

      25             That's what we're challenged with; and I say







                                                                   29
       1      there's an answer.

       2             People like me would be more than happy to

       3      build affordable housing that's tailored to the

       4      people we serve and the people who we -- take care

       5      of, as well as other people in need of affordable

       6      housing.

       7             My pitch to you, Senator, is one thing:

       8             When you're looking at this incredible list

       9      of needs of our population, remember something:

      10             Every single person on that list has to have

      11      a place to live.

      12             Thank you.

      13             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you.

      14             Thank you, gentlemen.

      15                  [Applause.]

      16             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And we've been joined by

      17      Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee, who is a member of the

      18      Mental Health Committee in the Assembly, and, we're

      19      in her district right now.

      20             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  I apologize for being

      21      late.  I had another appointment that I had to

      22      attend, with a group of young women from

      23      Suffern High School, and I didn't want to disappoint

      24      them.  I had scheduled that meeting prior to knowing

      25      about this hearing.







                                                                   30
       1             But, thank you very much, Senator, and I look

       2      forward to hearing the response and information from

       3      the community that's so essential for us to be able

       4      to move forward and be responsive in the state.

       5             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you, Assemblywoman.

       6             Our next panel is going to be on the topic of

       7      "Raise the Age."

       8             We have Paige Pierce, Jeremy Kohomban,

       9      Gabrielle Horowitz-Prisco, and Avrill Lindsay.

      10             PAIGE PIERCE:  Good morning.

      11             My name is Paige Pierce, and I'm the

      12      executive director for Families Together in

      13      New York State, a non-profit organization whose

      14      mission is to provide a unified voice for families

      15      of children and youth with social, emotional, and

      16      behavioral challenges.

      17             I represent thousands of families from across

      18      the state, and as such, I've dedicated my career to

      19      advocating for children with mental-health and other

      20      cross-systems challenges.

      21             As you can imagine, I've heard many

      22      heart-breaking stories over the years relating to

      23      children suffering needlessly.  Often, those

      24      accounts have been from parents whose children are

      25      suffering from emotional disorders that -- and have







                                                                   31
       1      been thrust into the criminal justice system, with

       2      disastrous results.

       3             Such accounts fuel our work every day at

       4      Families Together to provide better, and do better,

       5      by our children.

       6             It is with this in mind that I sincerely

       7      thank you for initiating this dialogue regarding the

       8      intersection between mental health and juvenile

       9      justice.

      10             As you're aware, New York State is one of

      11      only two states in the nation that automatically

      12      prosecutes 16- and 17-year-olds as adults in the

      13      criminal justice system, the consequences of which

      14      often bar opportunities to productive citizenship,

      15      propel youth toward a path of recidivism, and, all

      16      too often, leave permanent damage to their

      17      already-fragile brain development and mental health.

      18             To date, this issue has primarily been

      19      regarded by the Legislature as a corrections issue;

      20      however, it's imperative that the mental-health

      21      components be examined and carefully planned for.

      22             Accordingly, the National Center for

      23      Mental Health and Juvenile Justice -- according to

      24      the National Centers of Mental Health and

      25      Juvenile Justice, up to 70 percent of juveniles







                                                                   32
       1      cycling through the juvenile justice system suffer

       2      from mental-health disorders, with at least

       3      20 percent experiencing disorders so severe that

       4      their ability to function is significantly impaired.

       5             Their illnesses include major depression,

       6      bipolar disorder, conduct disorder, ADHD, anxiety

       7      disorder, and other potentially debilitating

       8      conditions.

       9             Incarcerating a child suffering from one or

      10      more of these disorders in an adult facility, or

      11      even a juvenile facility, absent the appropriate

      12      supports and services, can, and often has,

      13      catastrophic results for their development and for

      14      public safety.

      15             The Raise the Age New York campaign has been

      16      shining a spotlight on the realities of life for

      17      juveniles inside the walls of an adult facility.

      18      They're often sexually preyed upon by older inmates,

      19      physically assaulted, and placed in solitary

      20      confinement for up to 23 hours a day.

      21             These deplorable conditions were elevated in

      22      a national level -- to a national level recently by

      23      a scathing report released in August by

      24      U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara regarding teens

      25      incarcerated at Rikers Island.







                                                                   33
       1             The details of this report provided for a

       2      shocking indictment of a system that is not only

       3      failing our children, but putting them at great risk

       4      of experiencing trauma, and even becoming adjusted

       5      to this culture of violence, contributing to

       6      increased recidivism when they are released.

       7             The investigation and resulting report

       8      spanned a period of time between 2011 through the

       9      end of 2013, and exposes what is -- what it refers

      10      to as a culture of violence against teenage inmates,

      11      particularly those with mental illnesses.

      12             51 percent of the teens incarcerated at

      13      Rikers Island have a mental-health diagnosis.

      14             Chilling depictions of the experiences of

      15      these youth were detailed at length.

      16             I have, in my written testimony, several of

      17      those citations.

      18             The report goes on for a chilling 79 pages.

      19             And while there have been -- there have been,

      20      and will continue to be, heated and outdated debates

      21      on "tough on crime versus smart on crime," I can't

      22      imagine anyone would sanction such treatment of

      23      juveniles affected by a mental-health challenge.

      24             This is bigger than any one system.

      25             All systems can play a role in ending the







                                                                   34
       1      school-to-prison pipeline.

       2             Our current approach does not correct

       3      criminal behavior; it perpetuates it.

       4             Our current approach does not treat

       5      mental-health disorders; it exacerbates them.

       6             In current -- in direct conflict with all

       7      emerging evidence, we continue as a society to push

       8      youth into isolation at the very time when they need

       9      to be pulled back into their communities to

      10      understand and reconcile the consequences of their

      11      actions and learn to live with their challenges.

      12             Every day we travel down this road is another

      13      lost opportunity to offer these youth a different

      14      course.

      15             The time has come to offer more opportunities

      16      than we do barriers.

      17             The time has come to reconstruct or adjust

      18      the system to one that is developmentally

      19      appropriate, driven by evidence, considers carefully

      20      the intersecting systems of care, such as

      21      mental health, substance abuse, education, and

      22      corrections, and examines the costs, both human and

      23      financial.

      24             While the U.S. Attorney's report focuses only

      25      on Rikers Island, I'd like to tell you about a few







                                                                   35
       1      other families that we represent and put a face to

       2      such of -- to some of these families.

       3             All the names in the stories have been

       4      changed for purposes of confidently.

       5             I'd first introduced you to "Daniel."

       6             In many respects, Daniel was similar to that

       7      of most teenage boys.  He liked playing video games,

       8      socializing with friends, and playing basketball.

       9             In some respects he's a bit different than

      10      most teenage boys, as he suffers from an untreated

      11      mental-health -- from untreated mental-health

      12      challenges.

      13             In 2010, 1 out of 5 Americans experienced a

      14      mental-health challenge, and 70 percent of children

      15      and youth in need of mental-health services did not

      16      receive the treatment they need.

      17             He could be my son, your son, a nephew, or a

      18      close family friend.

      19             He could be any race or religion.

      20             He could also be in a safe place today, but

      21      he's not.

      22             His life trajectory was forever altered when

      23      Daniel was 16 years old.  He was arrested for

      24      stealing Chinese food from a delivery car, a choice

      25      made under pressure of his peers, and one that would







                                                                   36
       1      find him in an unimaginable situation.

       2             The official charge was robbery, a violent

       3      felony.

       4             Because he was 16 years old, he was

       5      prosecuted as an adult; and, thereby sent to an

       6      adult facility, and the consequences of this

       7      incarceration have been devastating.

       8             Tragically, the youthful-offender status he

       9      was awarded was not enough to protect him from what

      10      came next.

      11             While in custody, he was raped by a fellow

      12      inmate.

      13             Congressional findings reported in the

      14      2003 Prison Rape Elimination Act that juveniles were

      15      five times as likely to be sexual assaulted in adult

      16      facilities rather than juvenile facilities, often

      17      within their first 48 hours.

      18             Daniel, unfortunately, became such a

      19      statistic.

      20             The impact of such trauma has had lasting

      21      effects.

      22             Although he's since been released, he

      23      continues to suffer from severe and debilitating

      24      posttraumatic stress disorder.

      25             Had Daniel committed his crime in a







                                                                   37
       1      neighboring state where children are not tried as

       2      adults, his life course could have been drastically

       3      different.

       4             Perhaps he could be on a path to recovery,

       5      nearing the end of his college experience, looking

       6      forward to embarking on a career path that would

       7      lead to product citizenship.

       8             I have a couple of other stories of young

       9      people with mental-health challenges who have been

      10      inappropriately placed into the criminal justice

      11      system, and I'll let you read those, in the interest

      12      of time.

      13             I have to tell you about this one kid.  He

      14      has Asperger Syndrome.

      15             And I have a son who has Asperger Syndrome.

      16             And, as you probably know, they often have,

      17      like, obsessions with certain things.

      18             This kid was obsessed with women's shoes.

      19      And, he broke into a local gym and stole some

      20      women's shoes out of a locker, and he was arrested

      21      as an adult, because he is was 17.

      22             You know, luckily, he ended up in county jail

      23      rather than state prison.

      24             But, you know, clearly, he had -- it was a

      25      manifestation of his disability.







                                                                   38
       1             Given the Governor's prioritization of

       2      raising the age of criminal responsibility, and the

       3      anticipated recommendations of his commission on

       4      youth, public safety, and justice, we expect a

       5      package of reform bills early in 2015's legislative

       6      session.

       7             We ask, that when the ensuing discussions

       8      take place in Albany, you recall what you have heard

       9      here today, and advocate:

      10             That no youth are housed in adult jails and

      11      prisons;

      12             Ensure that all youth are treated

      13      developmentally appropriately for their age

      14      regardless of the crime charged;

      15             Ensure that a robust array of mental-health

      16      and substance-abuse services and supports are

      17      available;

      18             Adjudicate all youth under the

      19      Family Court Act, where judges have a full array

      20      of -- or rehabilitative and restorative tools;

      21             Reduce detention and placement in juvenile

      22      facilities;

      23             And, increase the ability to divert cases

      24      from court and at arrest.

      25             And thank you for your consideration.







                                                                   39
       1             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

       2             Thank you, Paige.

       3             DR. JEREMY KOHOMBAN:  Thank you.

       4             Good morning, Senator.

       5             Good morning, Assemblywoman.

       6             Thank you for the opportunity.

       7             I'm Dr. Jeremy Kohomban.  I'm the president

       8      and CEO of the Children's Village and

       9      Harlem Dowling.

      10             Together, we serve over 15,000 children,

      11      annually, in residential -- short and residential

      12      and community programs.  Also, programs right here

      13      in Rockland County.

      14             We also serve in the Netherlands, in Iraq,

      15      and in Australia.

      16             Currently, in New York, we work with close to

      17      home, under the Governor's mandate, to return

      18      children to the closest location possible.  And we

      19      work more with the children that are considered

      20      "specialized."

      21             So these are the high-end, high-need

      22      children: the fire-setters, the young people who

      23      have problematic sexual behavior, substance abuse.

      24             Our experience working with them has informed

      25      our thinking around this issue.







                                                                   40
       1             And as I heard Paige speak, I quickly made

       2      some notes here, because I want to try to go deeper

       3      into some of the statistics that Paige spoke about,

       4      and elaborate on some of the nuances that we see

       5      within that group.

       6             So, let me start by saying, by repeating

       7      something that you already know, that the teens that

       8      we're talking about are predominantly poor, or

       9      they're Black or they're Brown.

      10             That's it.

      11             We're not talking about all kids in New York.

      12             We're talking about select children coming

      13      from select neighborhoods, from certain families in

      14      our community.

      15             And wherever we live, we know where these

      16      children are coming from, so this is not something

      17      that's -- we may not think about it, but it's not

      18      invisible to us.

      19             They often come -- they, also, in many of our

      20      largest cities, they often come from segregated

      21      communities, and from -- and, most often, from

      22      highly-stressed family situations.  For whatever

      23      reason, they come from highly-stressed family

      24      situations.

      25             It is easy to believe with this group of







                                                                   41
       1      children that mental illness is a cause for their

       2      behavior and their lack of conformity.  But in our

       3      experience, it's not true.

       4             When it comes to these children, the term

       5      "mental illness" is often broadly applied, with

       6      little distinction between serious and persistent

       7      mental illness.

       8             Think schizophrenia, that we often think

       9      about when we think about mental illness; or the

      10      symptoms of what we call "situational mental

      11      illness."

      12             What is most damaging here is that, when we

      13      don't make the distinction between serious and

      14      persistent mental illness and situational mental

      15      illness, we kind of lump our children together with

      16      a broad-brush approach, and we expect treatment to

      17      be the final solution.

      18             And it's easy to think about that, because

      19      when -- as you heard in Paige's testimony, the

      20      national statistics are pretty clear.

      21             About 70 percent of our children have some

      22      type of emotional disorder that can be easily

      23      categorized as mental illness, but less than

      24      20 percent of them have what we call "persistent and

      25      serious mental illness."







                                                                   42
       1             In fact, in our work, we find that number to

       2      be even somewhat lower.

       3             But, if you -- if you followed some of the

       4      experts on this issue, and most recently, I think it

       5      was on Monday, NPR had a piece with

       6      Dr. Allen Francis, a noted psychiatrist, and the

       7      former head of the department of psychiatry at Duke,

       8      what he said -- and I want to quote him, he said,

       9      "No one is harder to diagnose than a child or a

      10      teenager.  The tendency to over-diagnose is

      11      particularly problematic among teens."

      12             So there's a lot of over-diagnosis that goes

      13      on, and a lot of assumptions that are made, that the

      14      kids who exhibit, maybe, some behaviors on the

      15      Asperger spectrum, or behaviors that are tied to

      16      emotional disorder, or family trauma, are somehow

      17      mentally ill.

      18             Recognizing situational mental illness from

      19      chronic and persistent and serious mental illness is

      20      absolutely essential.

      21             Situational mental illness is often caused by

      22      terrible pain.

      23             The pain of family trauma.

      24             The pain of loss.

      25             The pain of long-term system enrollment.







                                                                   43
       1             You know, kids in foster care, when they have

       2      no one in their lives, can begin to exhibit

       3      situational mental illness.

       4             Abject poverty.  Living in some

       5      neighborhoods, living with the stress of race and

       6      racism, the lack of opportunity, and the feelings of

       7      abandonment, are often causes for situational mental

       8      illness.

       9             In many cases, behavioral issues in community

      10      and school, and even gang involvement, and marijuana

      11      use, or low-level drug use, are coping mechanisms

      12      for kids that are dealing with situational mental

      13      illness.

      14             Don't get me wrong; both kinds of mental

      15      illness can have long-term debilitating

      16      consequences, but the treatment approach for each

      17      has to be drastically different.

      18             Treating situational mental illness begins

      19      with belonging, and I want to repeat that, it

      20      absolutely begins with belonging; meaning, that

      21      there needs to be at least one person who loves this

      22      child unconditionally.

      23             A system or a government or a

      24      Children's Village, no matter how good we are, are

      25      not a substitute for that kind of belonging.







                                                                   44
       1             In the absence of belonging, it is incumbent

       2      that we find a way to create belonging.

       3             That's our job.

       4             It's just like with our own children.  These

       5      children do better, and they often thrive, when

       6      they're loved and when they belong.

       7             They deserve our optimism.  They deserve our

       8      enthusiasm.

       9             They need structure, they need guidance, they

      10      need support, and they need honesty.

      11             They should not as be burdened with our

      12      well-intentioned but often misguided labels that

      13      encourage a culture of low expectation.

      14             The reality is that, when you're labeled

      15      "mentally ill," you're often labeled as low -- with

      16      low issues of -- with -- it's often a prognosis of

      17      low performance, low expectations, and more often

      18      than not, in New York, you're part of a system.

      19             And systems don't make you better; people and

      20      families do.

      21             So I have two recommendations.

      22             One is, let's raise the age.

      23             We don't want to be behind North Carolina.

      24      Right?

      25             We can't.  We're better than that.







                                                                   45
       1             And, two -- actually it's three

       2      recommendations -- fund the services at two levels,

       3      because we can't just raise the age and not fund the

       4      services.

       5             First, let's fund our communities where our

       6      kids come from.

       7             You know, if we don't correct the root causes

       8      and address the issues at the community level, these

       9      communities will continue to send kids into the

      10      system.

      11             And we don't want kids growing up in the

      12      system.  We don't want kids growing up at

      13      Children's Village.

      14             We don't want that.

      15             Kids need families, kids need communities.

      16             And, then, 30 percent of our funding should

      17      to go individual wraparound that support parents,

      18      and loves parents that care and love, and

      19      foster-parents our children, to be able to take care

      20      of them.

      21             And the third recommendation is, we need a

      22      transparent tracking system.

      23             And I bet you Gabrielle is going to say this.

      24             We need to know what works, and what doesn't.

      25             We don't want to just put money, year after







                                                                   46
       1      year, and assume that it's working.  We have too

       2      much of that going on.

       3             Let's track this carefully.

       4             It's a small group.  We can do this by child.

       5      We should track them well into their 20s.

       6             What's working?

       7             And if it's working, fund it.

       8             If it's not, let's stop.

       9             Thank you.

      10                  [Applause.]

      11             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you.

      12             AVRILL LINDSAY DENNIS:  Good morning.

      13             Thank you for having us, and thank you both

      14      for your leadership.

      15             I'm Avrill Lindsay Dennis.  I'm a licensed

      16      clinical social worker, 20-year NASW member, and

      17      social-work advocate, mental-health clinician, and

      18      administrator.

      19             Founded in 1955, the National Association of

      20      Social Workers (NASW) is the largest membership

      21      organization for professional social workers in the

      22      world, with 132,000 members in the United States and

      23      overseas.  In New York alone, there are more than

      24      16,000 NASW members.

      25             The New York State chapter, which encompasses







                                                                   47
       1      all of New York, except for the 5 boroughs of

       2      New York City, has over 8500, while the

       3      New York City chapter has the remainder.

       4             Both nationally and statewide, the

       5      organization works to enhance the professional

       6      growth and development of its members, to create and

       7      maintain professional standards, and to advance

       8      [unintelligible] and social-work policies.

       9             As a representation -- as a representative of

      10      NASW in New York State, I stand before you today on

      11      behalf of more than eight and a half thousand social

      12      workers in strong support of raising the age of

      13      criminal responsibility.

      14             Science and research have shown, time and

      15      time again, that the adult correction system does

      16      not work for adolescents.

      17             20 years of experience in New York State has

      18      shown us the same.

      19             We need to change this.  We have yet to

      20      change this.

      21             Based on my experience with these youth,

      22      I could quote numbers to you, or tell you life

      23      stories.

      24             The youth we work with, the children, were

      25      missed for services at some point in their lives;







                                                                   48
       1      did not receive accurate or effective diagnosis,

       2      treatment, or supports; and, largely, as a result of

       3      untreated mental-health issues, have behaviors that,

       4      in turn, lead them to be criminalized.

       5             I choose to share with you life stories, and

       6      as you have heard, and will hear, from my colleagues

       7      in regards to the scientific evidence of youth

       8      resiliency, brain function, cost analysis, and

       9      family involvement, we know that adolescents and

      10      children are resilient and can learn, and they're

      11      still growing into the persons in which they will

      12      be.

      13             Experience has shown me that our society's

      14      focus should to be treat and rehabilitate these

      15      young people, to give them a chance at a future

      16      instead of criminalizing them and traumatizing them

      17      further.

      18             Outcomes for society are much greater and

      19      safer when we choose this route.

      20             It is an investment in the individual and in

      21      our communities.

      22             Despite the fact that, in New York, a

      23      16-year-old youth is not considered old enough to

      24      vote, nor can get an ID without parental consent,

      25      drive without parental consent, get medical or







                                                                   49
       1      psychiatric care without a guardian, they are

       2      automatically treated as an adult once they commit a

       3      crime.

       4             Why do we still think they have adult

       5      responsibility for some really bad decisions, when

       6      we show that we know they're not able to make most

       7      adult decisions alone.

       8             There's a public misconception that these

       9      youth come from broken homes, non-existent homes, or

      10      families who don't care about them.

      11             A fair percentage of these kids do, in fact,

      12      come from homes with caring and supportive adults.

      13             Those adults may face challenges in

      14      understanding the mental-health needs of their

      15      youth, because they're unfamiliar with diagnosis

      16      trajectory, or believe that the moods and behaviors

      17      associated with the underlying issues are within the

      18      youth's control.

      19             Other adults have spent years pleading us for

      20      help with their kids, fully understanding the risks.

      21             A small percentage do, in fact, have limited

      22      stable adult connections, sometimes due to family

      23      issues themselves, but, more often, due to having

      24      had such difficulties for so long without those

      25      supports that the adults, too, are tired.







                                                                   50
       1             Families need support in understanding the

       2      benefits of treatment, but, more so, in how to

       3      access treatment options.

       4             This last group of youth is at greatest risk,

       5      with the correlation between the history of being

       6      abused and neglected and criminal behavior.

       7             These crossover youth we touch in our

       8      systems; those same systems that we need to increase

       9      the assessment process, to work towards treatment

      10      for early trauma of youth, gearing towards

      11      prevention of later, more complex mental-health

      12      issues.

      13             Youth in our systems -- this has been spoken

      14      of already -- are disproportionately Black, Brown,

      15      and impoverished.

      16             Close-To-Home legislation was a huge step in

      17      the right direction.  It affords us the ability to

      18      treat youth in the community, to link them to

      19      services and education, community programs, and to

      20      be close to their families, receiving passes and

      21      therapy with the family as a whole.

      22             We're moving towards a treatment focus that

      23      replaces the punitive-detention model, one we know

      24      does not work for adolescents.

      25             Current administrators are demonstrating







                                                                   51
       1      interagency collaboration from New York City and New

       2      York State agencies to the not-for-profits, all

       3      working for the same common goal: to reach youth,

       4      rehabilitate and treat youth, strengthen families,

       5      and, in turn, our communities and everyone's future.

       6             New York State needs to increase and

       7      strengthen mental-health services available.

       8             Budgetary concerns over the last 10 years

       9      have had a significant impact on the number of

      10      in-patient hospital beds available, mandates

      11      governing clinic hours, and the availability of

      12      effective crisis response that does not involve a

      13      police-department response.

      14             Lack of access to services, combined by

      15      ongoing stigmatization of mental-health issues, are

      16      impediments to treatment availability.

      17             It's vitally important to these -- to

      18      supporting these young people is adequate,

      19      affordable, accessible, and comprehensive

      20      mental-health assessment and treatment.

      21             Some successes:

      22             A 15-year-old young lady with some depression

      23      and impulsivity, both linked to untreated PTSD which

      24      led her to make some really bad choices.

      25             Within her first month in placement she was







                                                                   52
       1      hospitalized for bizarre, aggressive, dangerous, and

       2      regressed-looking behaviors.

       3             Following six months in treatment, duly

       4      placed in both juvenile justice and foster care, she

       5      returned to mom's home, with the goal of attending

       6      nursing school, after receiving the foster-care

       7      award for the year, a very different young lady than

       8      the one who we first met.  Realizing her potential

       9      and accepting those in her life who could help her,

      10      she moved in the right direction.

      11             A 17-year-old that had all but given up, also

      12      duly placed.  No stable adult relationships to

      13      mention.

      14             The first sign of progress we saw was being

      15      released from criminal court one night at about

      16      11 p.m., to herself.

      17             Instead of hitting the streets, we got a call

      18      asking for a ride back to placement.

      19             We saw that as a huge strength and huge

      20      progress.

      21             It was a long road from there, but with

      22      treatment, and a relationship with her father began,

      23      later she returned to his home, and enrolled in a

      24      GED program.

      25             She learned to express herself through







                                                                   53
       1      poetry.  And for the first time in a long time

       2      learned to develop trusting relationships.

       3             Another youth we work with speaks of his time

       4      in Rikers by saying that the corrections'

       5      "violence being condoned" attitude really leads to

       6      helplessness.

       7             All these youth have really done is missed

       8      opportunities for treatment in other venues.

       9             Some families have tried diligently, as

      10      I mentioned, to reach services, only to be turned

      11      away, or to have their case closed when an

      12      adolescent doesn't make an appointment.

      13             Adolescents soak up the environment around

      14      them.  They can learn and grow and will take in what

      15      they experience.

      16             What experiences are we going to provide to

      17      them?

      18             Moving youth into an adult system that has a

      19      known culture of violence only leads to traumatizing

      20      youth.

      21             The trauma often presents itself in

      22      behaviors, leading to youth -- leading youth into

      23      similar situations where they would be traumatized

      24      again.

      25             Ongoing trauma we know is a trigger







                                                                   54
       1      underlying mental illness, or takes some of those

       2      simpler mental illnesses, as Jeremy spoke about, and

       3      make it much more complex.  The cycle then

       4      continues.

       5             There are a multitude of issues in the adult

       6      correctional system that need to be addressed, and

       7      this is a separate issue.

       8             Adolescents should not be part of this

       9      process.

      10             To quote one young lady from early in my

      11      juvenile justice experience, on the phone with her

      12      mother, begging her mom to sign Consent For

      13      Medication so that she, and I quote, "didn't have to

      14      go through this over and over again in her life,

      15      remaining locked up.  To give her a chance at

      16      treatment and in life."

      17             The headlines grab the outliers in our

      18      youthful-offender system.  They sensationalize a

      19      handful of heinous violent acts that are committed

      20      by a handful of youth.

      21             This paints a very skewed picture for society

      22      about who these youth are we're talking about today.

      23             We're talking about the majority that get

      24      caught in our criminal justice system here and now;

      25      those who we can truly change the trajectory of







                                                                   55
       1      their future.

       2             Critics argue that victims of youthful

       3      offenders have to live with the trauma of being a

       4      victim, so why should the offender get off easy?

       5             Not treating a child as an adult does not

       6      correlate with letting an offender off easy.

       7             The road to treatment and rehabilitation is

       8      not an easy one.

       9             The reality is, that treating all youthful

      10      offenders as youth actually decreases recidivism;

      11      increases the likelihood of those individual

      12      successes.

      13             The victim is still, unfortunately, a victim.

      14             But with treatment, assessment, and care, the

      15      offender has a greater chance of not offending

      16      again.

      17             Adolescents are impulsive here and now.  It

      18      can take many, many months to have a case heard in a

      19      criminal court, meaning that no matter what the

      20      punishment, the youth is frequently unable to

      21      connect to those too.

      22             We ask New York State to change its position

      23      and become a leader in the evidence-based policies,

      24      uhm -- policies and practice, ongoing research and

      25      evaluation, with input from families and







                                                                   56
       1      stakeholders, to be used by service providers in the

       2      juvenile justice system, as NASW tasks social

       3      workers to do.

       4             We should be encouraging the child-welfare

       5      system and the juvenile justice systems to develop

       6      strategies and policies that will provide for

       7      greater levels of collaboration, screening, data

       8      sharing, assessment, case management, supervision,

       9      and interagency collaboration.

      10             Kids need care, individualized assessments,

      11      family work.  Some need very specialized treatment,

      12      and some need to catch up on school, rebuild or

      13      build important adult connections.

      14             With the variety of needs, all youth coming

      15      into the system should be treated as youth and

      16      individually assessed for what they and their family

      17      truly need.

      18             Programs should have the capacity to do

      19      individualized treatment plans for youth and

      20      families, to address short-term and significant

      21      mental-health issues, to make referrals post release

      22      for continued treatment and continuity of care.

      23             There should be no one-size-fits-all answer.

      24             One size never fits all.

      25             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you.







                                                                   57
       1             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  Good morning.

       2             My name is Gabrielle Horowitz-Prisco.  I'm

       3      the director of the Juvenile Justice Project at the

       4      Correctional Association of New York.

       5             We're an independent non-profit founded in

       6      1844, tasked by the New York State Legislature with

       7      monitoring conditions inside the adult prisons.

       8             We also do policy work and work with young

       9      people in the system.

      10             Thank you both.

      11             As you've heard already, trauma and abuse and

      12      mental illness are actually the consequences of our

      13      current criminal justice system, so they both drive

      14      children to enter the system, but the system also

      15      causes exactly that which, ostensibly, it is

      16      designed to alleviate.

      17             I talk sometimes about how I came to this

      18      work as an attorney for children in family court in

      19      child abuse and neglect cases, and I sometimes talk

      20      about the dinner-party conversation.

      21             And I'd be at a dinner party, and it would go

      22      like this:

      23             "What do you do?"

      24             "I'm an attorney."

      25             "What kind of attorney?"







                                                                   58
       1             "I represent children in child abuse and

       2      neglect cases."

       3             And people would act like I was

       4      Mother Teresa.

       5             You know, "How do you that?  That's so hard.

       6      I could never do that.  Wow, I really admire you."

       7             And I would say, like, Yes, you could it.  It

       8      is hard.  But, you know...

       9             And, then, I also represented kids in the

      10      juvenile justice system in juvenile-delinquency

      11      cases.

      12             So, same dinner party, different day, it's

      13      not that I went to so many of them:

      14             "What do you do?"

      15             "I'm an attorney."

      16             "For who?"

      17             "For kids."

      18             "Kids, what?

      19             "Kids accused of crimes."

      20             "Oh.  How do you do that?  What if they're

      21      rapists?  How do you represent those?  What if

      22      they've done a murder?  Really?  How do you -- you

      23      feel okay about that?"

      24             And I always thought, it's the same kids,

      25      I had the same job.  And how society viewed even me







                                                                   59
       1      as a helper.

       2             In one hand, I was elevated, practically

       3      beatified.  And in the other hand, there was sort of

       4      a disbelief, and a distancing, "How can you

       5      represent those kids?"

       6             So I'm here to talk about how -- two things:

       7             One is adolescent brain development;

       8             And the second is the incarceration of

       9      children, and the impact on their wellbeing,

      10      particularly young people with mental illness.

      11             But I'm also here to just kind of bear

      12      witness to the fact that they're all our kids.

      13             That as you've heard from my colleagues,

      14      they're kids who need our help and our love and our

      15      connectedness, and need, if anything, treatment and

      16      services; but absolutely do not need to be locked in

      17      cages, locked in solitary confinement, and abused at

      18      the cost of taxpayer dollars, which is what is

      19      currently happening.

      20             A little bit on adolescent brain development.

      21             As you heard from Avrill, the New York State

      22      law is currently riddled with hypocrisy.

      23             We don't allow children at 16 to get a fake

      24      tan.

      25             We don't allow them to get a tattoo, or to







                                                                   60
       1      get an AT&T cell phone contract, or to purchase

       2      cigarettes.

       3             However, they can be interrogated by the

       4      police without a parent present.

       5             If a child is 16 or 17, their parent doesn't

       6      even have to be notified.

       7             Your child could be taken and kept overnight

       8      by the police, and there's no legal requirement that

       9      a parent even be notified, because that parent --

      10      that child is considered an adult under this one

      11      provision of New York State law which contradicts

      12      all the rest of the law.

      13             Not only does this not make sense, it's not

      14      consistent with an extensive body of scientific

      15      literature that talks about why kids are different.

      16             The prefrontal cortex of the brain is the

      17      part of the brain that weighs risk versus reward,

      18      future planning, impulse control, rational

      19      decision-making.

      20             It's also one of the last parts of the brain

      21      to develop, and it's not fully mature even in late

      22      adolescence.

      23             The literature actually talks about 24, 25,

      24      being the age at which the brain completes this

      25      stage of development.







                                                                   61
       1             I don't need to go through an extensive list

       2      of adolescent, you know, brain-development research,

       3      but I'll say, we know this.

       4             If you've been a teenager, if you've raised a

       5      teenager, if you love a teenager, you know that

       6      teenagers make very stupid decisions.

       7             I sometimes talk about, when I was 17 years

       8      old, growing up in Staten Island, New York,

       9      I shoplifted in Macy's because the line was too

      10      long, and my boyfriend was waiting in a car in the

      11      parking lot.  And I actually believed that it was

      12      unfair of Macy's to have such a long line when

      13      I needed to go.

      14             I mean, I really remember thinking, like,

      15      It's their fault the line is so long, and I have to

      16      go, and he's waiting, and this is very important.

      17             It was related to my prom, I think.  It was,

      18      like, something I needed for prom, so, I'm going to

      19      take it.

      20             And, you know, I wasn't caught.

      21             And, in retrospect, had I been caught,

      22      I would have been shielded by my race, by my

      23      privilege as a middle-class, you know, young girl

      24      growing up on Staten Island, by having educated.

      25             The system I would have entered, if I even







                                                                   62
       1      entered a system, would have been a very different

       2      one.

       3             I probably would have been released to my

       4      parents.  Maybe done some community services.

       5             Whereas, I represented children who went to

       6      prison for similar things.

       7             But when I tell that story, it's like a human

       8      way of putting a face on what the evidence tells us;

       9      which is, teenagers make terrible decisions, and

      10      they outgrow that, because the reason they make

      11      terrible decisions, particularly when in groups, is

      12      because their brains have not finished developing.

      13             However, there are ways that we can support

      14      children, including during adolescence.

      15             And the very same scientific body of research

      16      tells us we can design interventions that have

      17      adolescent brain development in mind.

      18             So some of the options you heard about from

      19      Jeremy and from Avrill are the smart,

      20      forward-thinking, twenty-first-century solutions

      21      that New York State has a chance to design.

      22             You as policymakers have the ability to

      23      become a national leader to help New York go from

      24      being last into the country to the forefront of

      25      harnessing the power of evidence and research, to







                                                                   63
       1      say, What works?  How do we fund what works?

       2             And I want to talk a little bit about kids in

       3      adult jails and prisons, but I want to say one thing

       4      before I do that, which is, as you've heard from my

       5      colleagues, prosecuting children as adults is the

       6      opposite of tough on crime.  It creates crime.

       7             So if your colleagues say to you, "Well, what

       8      about victims?" I think a very smart answer is,

       9      "We're creating more victims in the current system.

      10      If you're so concerned about crime, then help kids

      11      get help, so they don't get released from jail and

      12      prison to go on and create more future victims."

      13             This is demonstrated.

      14             The non-federal Task Force on Community

      15      Preventive Services, which is a long way of saying

      16      an independent task force, did a systematic review

      17      of published scientific evidence, looking at kids

      18      who are in the adult system versus the youth system.

      19             This is a meta-study, so they looked a

      20      seven studies out there, and they found a 34 percent

      21      relative increase in subsequent violent or general

      22      crime for kids who are in the adult system versus

      23      the youth system.

      24             A 34 percent increase.

      25             Other studies have shown that violent crime,







                                                                   64
       1      in particular, increases when kids are prosecuted as

       2      adults.

       3             So I want to conclude by just talking about

       4      some of the risks for kids in adult jails and

       5      prisons.

       6             You've heard a little bit about kids in adult

       7      jails and prisons are at grave risk.

       8             Kids in adult jails are 36 times more likely

       9      to commit suicide than those in youth facilities.

      10             They're more likely to face an armed attack,

      11      by 50 percent, as compared to young people in youth

      12      facilities.

      13             And they're nearly 100 percent as likely to

      14      be beaten by staff when compared to young people in

      15      youth facilities.

      16             They also can be placed in solitary

      17      confinement, as Paige spoke about, for up to

      18      23 hours a day.

      19             Although New York City has recently said

      20      they're going to stop this practice for Rikers,

      21      there are no plans to stop the practice in the

      22      county jails.

      23             And even the Department of Corrections and

      24      Community Supervision that runs the state prison

      25      system is currently in settlement for a lawsuit,







                                                                   65
       1      where they may reduce some of the hours of solitary

       2      confinement, but there's still, essentially,

       3      solitary confinement of young people.

       4             And I want to say this, going back to my days

       5      in family court:

       6             When I represented kids in child abuse and

       7      neglect hearings, if we got a case in which a parent

       8      locked their child in their bathroom for 23 hours a

       9      day, and cut a hole in the bathroom door and shoved

      10      some school papers through the door, but didn't let

      11      the child out; and, when they did let them out, it

      12      was for an hour a day to stand on a balcony and walk

      13      in a circle or do a pull up on a door; and, they

      14      gave them only limited food shoved through that same

      15      slot in the door; and, they denied them all human

      16      contact, child-welfare services would

      17      emergency-remove that child.

      18             There would be no hearing first.

      19             The child would be emergency-removed from the

      20      home.  All other children from the home would

      21      probably be removed.

      22             The parent would absolutely be charged with

      23      child abuse, and, potentially, criminally charged in

      24      criminal court as well.

      25             Right now, as we sit here, despite the







                                                                   66
       1      Department of Justice investigation that Paige spoke

       2      about, where the U.S. Attorney found that children

       3      on Rikers Island are being brutally abused.  They're

       4      being abused physically by corrections officers, and

       5      they're also in solitary confinement, they remain in

       6      those conditions.

       7             Those children need to be emergency-removed

       8      from adult jails and prisons, including

       9      Rikers Island.

      10             Not develop --

      11                  [Applause.]

      12             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  Thank you.

      13             Not develop a plan and wait three months.

      14      Not figure out where they're going to go.

      15             We would not allow a parent to do to a child

      16      what New York State is funding, paying for,

      17      government employees to do to children.

      18             It is child abuse, and it must end.

      19             It must end right now.

      20             The answer is getting children out of adult

      21      jails and prisons and into the youth system.

      22             Ideally, keeping kids in their communities

      23      with the kinds of intensive services that you heard

      24      about from Avrill and Jeremy.

      25             But if kids are going to be confined, they







                                                                   67
       1      should never be in an adult jail and prison.

       2             The last thing -- I'm a little worked up so

       3      it's hard to pause.

       4             The last thing that I want to say, is that

       5      you and your colleagues in the Legislature have done

       6      a great job of supporting and developing the youth

       7      justice system in New York State.

       8             So it is even more reprehensible that 16- and

       9      17-year-olds are denied the access of the youth

      10      justice system.

      11             For example, under the past couple of budgets

      12      you created and passed, the Supervision and

      13      Treatment Services for Juveniles Program, which is

      14      the "STSJP" funding, it's a permanent funding stream

      15      to support community-based services for youth, with

      16      the goal of keeping kids out of detention and

      17      residential care.  Specifically, it provides support

      18      for young people with mental illness.

      19             You as legislators have done a great job

      20      creating fiscal infrastructures in the youth justice

      21      system; yet, 16- and 17-year-olds don't have access

      22      to those advantages.

      23             So in conclusion, there are

      24      five recommendations that I urge you to consider:

      25             The first is, obviously, that New York State







                                                                   68
       1      has to raise the age of criminal responsibility.

       2             Like Paige indicated, the Governor has shown

       3      this to be a priority.  He has created the

       4      commission on youth justice and public safety, which

       5      our executive director, Sophia Elijah (ph.), is one

       6      of co-chairs of.

       7             We look forward to the commission's

       8      recommendations, and to seeing the specific

       9      suggestions for how this could be done.

      10             The second, is to remove children from adult

      11      jails and prisons immediately.

      12             Again, we would not allow a child to remain

      13      in these conditions in their parents' home.  We

      14      certainly shouldn't allow them to remain in

      15      government custody in these conditions.

      16             The third, is to end the practice of solitary

      17      confinement for all children, period, regardless of

      18      where they are.  And also pointing out that the

      19      solitary confinement of children is considered

      20      torture.

      21             And the U.N. and other bodies -- and

      22      international bodies have spoken about it as a

      23      violation of, really, basic human rights, and as

      24      torture.

      25             Finally, as Jeremy spoke about, funding needs







                                                                   69
       1      to go, not just into rejiggering the system so kids

       2      are now locked up in youth facilities, but into the

       3      kind of community-based programs, prevention,

       4      wraparound services, and treatment that works.

       5             And, also, investing in communities so kids

       6      don't need to be in any system.

       7             I regularly speak to kids and parents who are

       8      in the system, and I hear things, like:

       9             In my neighborhood there is no after-school

      10      center.  There are no programs.  You walk out of my

      11      house and there's a deli, and there's a fast-food

      12      restaurant, and there's a Chinese food restaurant,

      13      but there's no YMCA or no JCC or no park, no green

      14      space, no after-school program.  The school shut

      15      down and there's no place for the kids to go, so

      16      they go to the corner.

      17             Kids need spaces to play, to dream, to be

      18      with other kids.

      19             They need options other than a system.

      20             And, finally, for those kids that are in the

      21      system, the fifth recommendation is, as Jeremy said,

      22      we need transparency and we also need oversight.

      23             It is appalling that it took the federal

      24      government to come in and document the conditions on

      25      Rikers.







                                                                   70
       1             Why was that not done at the state level?

       2             Why did we need the U.S. Attorney to tell us

       3      what was happening in our own state?

       4             We need oversight;

       5             We need transparency;

       6             We need to know what is happening;

       7             We need to be able to get kids out of abusive

       8      situations;

       9             And we need to create and fund something that

      10      works, so that New York moves from being last in the

      11      country to being the leader.

      12             We deserve to be; but most importantly, that

      13      our children need us to be.

      14             They need us.

      15             They count on your leadership, and we thank

      16      you.

      17                  [Applause.]

      18             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  I would just say,

      19      having taught in a junior high school for seven,

      20      eight, and nine, for over twenty years, and I've

      21      watched the brain development and the changes, and

      22      that's a very real issue that I think needs to be

      23      acknowledged and discussed on a regular basis;

      24      because they do change, and they do behave sometimes

      25      in outrageous ways, given the instability of their







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       1      situations as well.

       2             So, thank you for your testimony.

       3             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Just a couple of

       4      questions.

       5             Now, is there a legislation that you support

       6      that's currently out there right now, or does this

       7      need to be created?

       8             PAIGE PIERCE:  The commission that Gabrielle

       9      and I both talked about is -- the recommendations

      10      are due at the end of this year, at the end of

      11      December.

      12             And the expectation is that there will be a

      13      package of bills that will address those specific

      14      recommendations.

      15             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  All right, great.

      16             And then the other question, about, when we

      17      talk about tracking and the transparency, and not to

      18      get into the, you know, micro details, but what do

      19      you envision?  What type of tracking system?

      20             DR. JEREMY KOHOMBAN:  Senator, I think

      21      because this is both controversial and requires us

      22      recreating the wheel here, right, I mean, we haven't

      23      done this well, I think we need person-centered

      24      tracking.

      25             We have a group that we'll begin with.







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       1             You know, ideally, legislation will pass.

       2             We'll have an identified group of young

       3      people that we start working with across

       4      New York State.

       5             It's not a large group, so we can begin to

       6      track these children to say, you know:  What did we

       7      do?  Did it work; did it not?  What were the

       8      recidivism rates?

       9             The current system doesn't have

      10      person-centered tracking, so children could move

      11      from one system to the next and completely

      12      disappear, and we never know whether we are spending

      13      money wisely.

      14             So we need person-centered tracking, at least

      15      for the first [unintelligible] and the second

      16      [unintelligible].

      17             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Okay, so no matter what

      18      agency they're in, we can follow them from agency to

      19      agency?

      20             DR. JEREMY KOHOMBAN:  I think it's a group

      21      that's small enough that we can do this.

      22             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  And I would just

      23      add to that, that tracking is certainly an

      24      incredibly important component.  And I think

      25      person-centered tracking is a great solution.







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       1             Also, talking about oversight, that there

       2      needs to be a single agency.

       3             There are currently 11-plus agencies,

       4      I believe, in New York State that have various

       5      pieces of oversight over the prison system, over

       6      young people in the system.

       7             There is the justice center, which I sit on

       8      the advisory council for, and is a tremendous step

       9      forward.

      10             However, the justice center does not cover

      11      16- and 17-year-olds in the adult system, except for

      12      in certain situations when they fall under the

      13      protection of other agencies.

      14             In addition, you know, there needs to be an

      15      agency that has subpoena power; the ability to make

      16      unannounced visits and inspections in prisons.

      17             There are, and I'd be happy to share with

      18      you, recommendations that the American Bar

      19      Association has put out, as well as national

      20      prison-monitoring experts, like Michele Deitch, have

      21      put out, about what oversight should look like.

      22             And I'd be more than happy to share those.

      23             And there are very specific, concrete

      24      recommendations that the ABA and other experts have

      25      said, such as, an agency must have confidential







                                                                   74
       1      interviews with children, with families, and with

       2      incarcerated people, about conditions.

       3             They must have subpoena power.

       4             They must have the ability to shut an agency

       5      down.

       6             If you have an oversight agency that can't

       7      actually put the incarcerating body -- you know,

       8      have any enforcement, or can't shut them down, there

       9      often isn't any teeth to oversight.

      10             So there needs to be an ability, when

      11      children -- when the U.S. Attorney, again, documents

      12      what we found on Rikers Island, what happens with

      13      that?  What is the response?

      14             And who then has control over making sure

      15      that those kind of problems don't occur?

      16             And those problems are systemic.  They're not

      17      isolated to Rikers Island, although the

      18      U.S. Attorney looked only there.

      19             So we'd really consider -- urge you to look

      20      at oversight mechanisms.

      21             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And that leads me to my

      22      next question:

      23             Do you have a number of the amount of 16- and

      24      17-year-olds that are currently in county jails or

      25      state prisons, or that, you know, in a given time







                                                                   75
       1      are there?

       2             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  I will say the

       3      numbers --

       4             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And is it more a

       5      county-jail issue? state prison?

       6             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  Yeah, so the

       7      numbers vary, depending on how you count.

       8             What was put forth by the governor's

       9      Children's Cabinet about several administrations

      10      ago, when this issue first began being investigated

      11      at the state level, was close to 11,000 kids in

      12      county jails, Rikers, or state prisons.

      13             However, my understanding is, those numbers

      14      looked at kids who spent, including, like small

      15      periods of time.  Like, if they were detained for a

      16      couple of days, which can still be devastating.

      17             And as Paige said, kids are often raped in

      18      their first 48 hours in a facility.

      19             But just to say that number is high, when you

      20      look at kids who are in jails and prisons for a

      21      short period of time, or, who, in their sentence,

      22      are sentenced to time served, which means they're

      23      sentenced to time they've already spent while

      24      awaiting trial, if you look at the number of kids

      25      who are sentenced to jail and prison, then the







                                                                   76
       1      number drops significantly.

       2             So sort of where the number is, and where you

       3      can get a snapshot, depends on how you measure, and

       4      whether you're looking at, you know, Rikers, DOCS,

       5      or the county jails.

       6             But we can correspond offline and I can get

       7      you some of the different breakdowns, because they

       8      do change depending on what you're trying to

       9      measure.

      10             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Right, okay.

      11             And when you talk about solitary confinement,

      12      is it the case -- I know, you know, the correctional

      13      officers are working with the guidelines that

      14      they're given.

      15             And is it a matter of segregation?  Or are we

      16      talking about just absolute solitary confinement?

      17             Is there a difference, or -- to segregate the

      18      16-year-olds from the adult population in these

      19      prisons or jails?

      20             GABRIELLE HOROWITZ-PRISCO:  It's a great

      21      question.

      22             So, the Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA)

      23      says that localities must make all efforts not to

      24      use solitary confinement as a means of separating

      25      16- and 17-year-olds.







                                                                   77
       1             So New York State, which has indicated it

       2      will become PREA-compliant, is, under PREA, not

       3      supposed to be using solitary confinement as a way

       4      to keep 16- and 17-year-olds segregated or safe.

       5             My understanding is that, at least when I'm

       6      talking about solitary confinement, and, like, some

       7      of the statistics that we have about the number of

       8      kids who are in solitary in DOCS, the state system,

       9      or in Riker's, or in county jail, those are kids who

      10      are generally there for disciplinary confinement,

      11      what's called "punitive segregation," or

      12      "disciplinary confinement," which is they're there

      13      for some kind of alleged infraction.

      14             It is important to know, however, that those

      15      infractions in the culture of a jail or prison can

      16      be incredibly minor.

      17             We have many documented cases, and there have

      18      been reports done by the American Civil Liberties

      19      Union and Human Rights Watch and other

      20      organizations, documenting that kids who go to

      21      solitary confinement, and adults, it can be for very

      22      minor things, such as, you know, maybe speaking back

      23      to a corrections officer.  Again, which can be part

      24      of the adolescent brain.

      25             I've heard firsthand testimony from people







                                                                   78
       1      who went to solitary, adults, for things like having

       2      vitamins, which aren't allowed in the system.  For

       3      having too many legal materials.

       4             I've heard a man testify personally, who was

       5      put in solitary because he had too many legal

       6      materials in his cell beyond what was allowed.

       7             So just to say, even when you hear

       8      "disciplinary confinement," it doesn't mean -- and

       9      we would say, no matter what a person has done, they

      10      should never be in that position, in solitary.  But

      11      it's important to drill down and say "disciplinary"

      12      means something very different in the context of a

      13      jail or prison.

      14             PAIGE PIERCE:  Well, and, also, under PREA,

      15      the -- you know, in order to be PREA-compliant,

      16      jails and prisons are not supposed to have young

      17      people, minors, with adults.

      18             The only way to do that is solitary

      19      confinement.  Otherwise -- you know, you've got to

      20      lock up somebody.  You've got to, like, separate

      21      them somehow.

      22             And most of our jails and prisons in the

      23      state are not PREA-compliant, just by the physical

      24      structure, and the fact that we have 16- and

      25      17-year-old physically there.







                                                                   79
       1             And one way to get PREA-compliant on that

       2      part of PREA is to segregate them in solitary

       3      confinement.  But then you're violating other parts

       4      of PREA.

       5             AVRILL LINDSAY DENNIS:  The other piece, just

       6      to add to that, is if you take into consideration

       7      the adolescents who truly have the mental-health

       8      issues, and the behaviors that are driven out of the

       9      untreated mental-health issues, leading to some of

      10      the examples of behaviors, and the minor infractions

      11      that would lead them to solitary confinement.

      12             So instead of accessing treatment, or

      13      accessing either known or unknown assessments in

      14      treatment for the youth, they're then placed in

      15      solitary versus treatment or assessment.

      16             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

      17             Well, thank you so much.

      18             PAIGE PIERCE:  Senator, can I just add one

      19      more thing, about, when you talk about oversight and

      20      tracking, one of the things that we know about young

      21      people who are in prison now, at the age of

      22      16 or 17, is that they didn't -- that wasn't

      23      their -- the first time that anybody ever heard of

      24      this kid.

      25             You know, they were, you know, suspended from







                                                                   80
       1      kindergarten; and, preschool, kicked out of

       2      preschools.

       3             You know?

       4             So we're talking about kids who -- if -- but

       5      that was a different system.

       6             So, tracking that kid into a different system

       7      is often not -- doesn't happen, and so they just go

       8      from system to system.

       9             I've had family members tell me:  We have

      10      four different case managers that come to our house,

      11      from different systems.  None of them even know the

      12      other exists.

      13             You know?

      14             Families are the case managers for the case

      15      managers.

      16             And, our system needs to have a better sense

      17      of where -- you know, who are these kids?

      18             There's the ACES study (the Adverse Childhood

      19      Experiences Study) that shows, you know, the

      20      trajectory of kids who have had high scores on the

      21      ACES.  And they -- we can -- we know these kids, and

      22      if we track them and help them, and provide the

      23      kinds of supports to their family and to the

      24      community on the front end, we wouldn't even have to

      25      talk about how many 16- and 17-year-olds are in







                                                                   81
       1      adult prison.

       2             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

       3             Well, thank you so much.  Appreciate it.

       4             Thank you.

       5                  [Applause.]

       6             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Next we'll hear from

       7      Toni Lasicki, who is the executive director at

       8      The Association for Community Living.

       9             TONI LASICKI:  Good afternoon, Senator.

      10             Well, that's a very tough act to follow,

      11      I think.

      12             As you know, ACL represents 120 nonprofit

      13      community-based mental-health agencies across the

      14      state that provide an array of mental-health

      15      services, including over 20,000 housing units with a

      16      rehabilitation focus.

      17             Our members serve primarily consumers who are

      18      affected by severe and persistent psychiatric

      19      disabilities, many of whom have co-occurring

      20      serious -- medical conditions, substance addictions,

      21      and developmental disabilities.

      22             Virtually all of their clients are eligible

      23      for Medicaid.

      24             Our members' agencies are primarily funded

      25      and regulated by the Office of Mental Health, and a







                                                                   82
       1      substantial portion of their revenue is from the

       2      Medicaid program.

       3             Thank you for accepting my testimony.

       4             I just want to -- just to put a context, I am

       5      going to focus just on the RCE plans and Olmsted, as

       6      was in the title of the request.

       7             So, as you know, there are many other issues

       8      that we can talk about, and I'm sure we'll have an

       9      opportunity to do that in the coming months, but

      10      I am going to focus on those two areas.

      11             Although it's my understanding that the

      12      regional centers of excellence plans, as originally

      13      considered, are no longer being considered by the

      14      State.

      15             The State's field offices, along with

      16      communities around the state psychiatric centers,

      17      are planning for the use of funds, save from bed

      18      closures, reinvesting those funds into the local --

      19      into communities.

      20             We have heard from providers around the state

      21      that the services that are being funded in each

      22      community do closely follow the recommendations of

      23      the original RCE committees in each region, with

      24      additional input from providers, county directors,

      25      families, and consumers.







                                                                   83
       1             That said, providers report that there are

       2      varying levels of participation from community

       3      members and providers in the different counties,

       4      resulting in a few that are unhappy with the

       5      process.

       6             Concerns were raised mostly in areas where

       7      services and/or housing slots were awarded without

       8      an RFP process.

       9             However, most are satisfied with the process

      10      and the services that will be funded.

      11             The services are too varied to list here, but

      12      an example -- but examples include:

      13      supported-housing slots; enriched services for

      14      people in housing; mobile crisis; warm-lines;

      15      hotlines; self-help; outreach; crisis-intervention

      16      programs to provide peer engagement and wraparound

      17      services; children's crisis intervention and mobile

      18      integration teams; ACT teams; child and family

      19      intensive case-management slots -- just to add to

      20      Paige's *, all those case managers that are running

      21      around -- mobile residential support teams; hospital

      22      return and respite centers; and recovery centers;

      23      and more.

      24             So we realize that the plans to downsize the

      25      hospitals will include ways to preserve state jobs,







                                                                   84
       1      although we're not quite sure what that will look

       2      like.

       3             We believe that this is a reasonable goal and

       4      planners should strive to reach it.

       5             However, it's a well-documented fact that the

       6      same service provided by the State is both much more

       7      expensive and less flexible than when provided by

       8      non-profits with no loss of quality.

       9             We're also concerned that the State will

      10      expect non-profits to allow State workers to work in

      11      non-profit settings, side by side, in the same jobs

      12      with non-profit staff who make one-half-or-so less

      13      than the State staff.

      14             That would create an inordinate amount of

      15      discontent among our workforce, and is really not

      16      recommended.

      17             However, we do have a need for specific

      18      services that State staff might be able to provide

      19      where there are few or no equivalents.  Those

      20      include mobile-nurse services, building maintenance,

      21      security, grounds maintenance, mobile psychiatric

      22      staff, and I'm sure there are others.

      23             In addition, we have concerns about the

      24      sustainability of new services.

      25             The current community-based system has been







                                                                   85
       1      starved of funding increases so much so that

       2      programs have experienced up to 43 percent in cuts

       3      due to inflation.

       4             Creating new services that will also be

       5      similarly starved is not a recipe for a robust

       6      system of care that can take the place of inpatient

       7      settings.

       8             No matter what happens with reinvestment in

       9      communities, the existing system of care and the new

      10      must be sustained by providing regular, consistent

      11      cost-of-living increases to the entire budgets of

      12      these programs.

      13             ACL is strongly opposed to targeted increases

      14      that go only to certain workers or to portions of

      15      providers' budgets.

      16             Providers must able to manage their finances

      17      in as flexible a manner as possible.

      18             In addition, as we move to managed care, we

      19      need a much more robust administration.

      20             Ours have been weakened and reduced, as

      21      providers have moved money to direct care and to

      22      programs to keep them afloat.

      23             We now need to replenish those areas that

      24      have been neglected.

      25             Many of my members report that their







                                                                   86
       1      administration -- the administrative share of their

       2      budgets is now down to 10 percent.

       3             10 percent is extremely low to manage

       4      24/7 highly regulated programs, to move into managed

       5      care, and to continue to keep up with all of the

       6      burdens that the State puts on them.

       7             So just on Olmsted, we will be releasing a

       8      white paper in the next few days on Olmsted and

       9      OMH housing.

      10             I'll excerpt it here, but please allow me to

      11      send that along as soon as it's done, probably by

      12      Friday.

      13             New York State's Office of Mental Health has

      14      successfully integrated tens of thousands of persons

      15      with serious and persistent psychiatric illnesses

      16      into the community over the last 35 years, but this

      17      next statistic is telling:

      18             New York once had 24 adult state institutions

      19      that served 93,000 people.

      20             It now has 17 adult state institutions that

      21      serve 2800 people.

      22             So we went from 93,000 in 24 facilities, to

      23      2800 in 17 facilities, using approximately

      24      $2 billion of the state's mental-health budget.  All

      25      hospitalizations account for $3.3 billion.







                                                                   87
       1             As the hospital population decreases, without

       2      a proportional decrease in the number of

       3      institutions, the cost per person goes up.

       4             It is now at an all-time high.

       5             By my calculations, it's approaching

       6      $700,000 per year per person in a state facility.

       7             In contrast, the entire local system, all

       8      programs, not just housing, is funded at only

       9      $1.3 billion for 600,000 people; or approximately

      10      $2100 per person per year.

      11             Although housing has been proven to keep

      12      people out of hospitals and institutions, resources

      13      have been diminishing in community settings for

      14      years.

      15             For example, housing programs have lost 20 to

      16      40 percent in funding to inflation over the past

      17      20 years at the same time that the clients' needs

      18      become much more challenging.

      19             That said, the Supreme Court did observe that

      20      the ADA does not compel states to phase out

      21      institutions.  That it does not mean to drive

      22      patients into community settings that are

      23      inappropriate.  That some patients may need to

      24      revisit an institution from time to time, and that

      25      some patients may never be able to actually leave an







                                                                   88
       1      institution.

       2             It also opined that the State did not have to

       3      fundamentally alter their programs or services to

       4      operationalize the integration mandate of the ADA.

       5             However, I believe that if the Supreme Court

       6      were to revisit Olmsted today, it would be shocked

       7      that so much of a state's resources go to so few

       8      people at the expense of the majority, when there is

       9      a way to change that; that is, to consolidate

      10      hospitals and move that money to where the clients

      11      are in the community.

      12             One can only wonder what the Supreme Court

      13      would think of New York today; in particular, what

      14      Justice Kennedy would think.

      15             Justice Kennedy, in his concurring opinion,

      16      cautioned, that if the principle of liability

      17      announced by the Court today is not applied with

      18      caution and circumspection, states may be pressured

      19      into attempting compliance on the cheap, placing

      20      marginal patients into integrated settings devoid of

      21      the services and attention necessary for their

      22      condition.

      23             I believe that this is happening today

      24      because of the misguided attempts to save every

      25      state hospital from extinction, requiring massive







                                                                   89
       1      amounts of money to maintain a handful of people.

       2             As evidenced, look at what the State is

       3      willing to pay for a housing slot for a person

       4      coming straight out of a state facility.

       5             In the central region, that's $7600 per year.

       6             So somebody comes from a $700,000 bed in a

       7      state psychiatric facility, and is expected to be

       8      served by a provider in the community for $7600 a

       9      year, and that includes rent.

      10             New York has the highest cost of living in

      11      country, so that the OMH publicly-funded housing

      12      continuum for people with serious mental illnesses

      13      in New York is critical and necessary, and, it needs

      14      to expand.

      15             Few have enough income to be

      16      housing-independent.

      17             A modest apartment in New York costs, on

      18      average, 133 percent of the SSI rate that clients

      19      receive.

      20             Employment may often be a goal for the vast

      21      majority in the system; however, 85 percent of

      22      persons with mental-health diagnoses are unemployed.

      23             The subset that needs supportive housing are

      24      the least likely of those 85 percent to obtain

      25      employment that will pay them in the amounts needed







                                                                   90
       1      to be housing-independent in New York State.

       2             We simply cannot continue to spend $2 billion

       3      on 2800 people if we are going to be responsible

       4      stewards of state resources and meet our obligations

       5      to the most ill among us.

       6             The State Office of Mental Health has funded

       7      a variety of program and housing types in the

       8      community over the years.

       9             However, we are hearing that some types of

      10      facilities may be in jeopardy due to the way in

      11      which the Department of Justice interprets Olmsted.

      12             We believe that the New York State Office of

      13      Mental Health's effort, however, to

      14      deinstitutionalize patients from the state hospitals

      15      and other settings have largely been within the

      16      parameters of the ADA, as interpreted by the

      17      Supreme Court's decision in Olmsted.

      18             That well-known decision sought to place

      19      two women with co-occurring developmental

      20      disabilities and psychiatric illnesses from state

      21      institutions into small group homes in the

      22      community.

      23             In interpreting the Americans with

      24      Disabilities Act integration mandate, and in

      25      answering the central question posed in the lawsuit,







                                                                   91
       1      whether the proscription of discrimination may

       2      require placement of persons with mental

       3      disabilities in community settings rather than

       4      institutions, the Olmsted Court held that it did in

       5      the following circumstances:

       6             When the state's treatment professionals have

       7      determined that community placement is appropriate;

       8             When a transfer from institutional care to a

       9      less-restrictive setting is not opposed by the

      10      individual;

      11             When the placement can be reasonably

      12      accommodated, taking into account the resources

      13      available to the state and the needs of others with

      14      mental disabilities.

      15             All of that leads one to believe that a

      16      continuum of services for people with varying needs

      17      is appropriate.

      18             After all, if the Court recognizes the need

      19      for institutions, it is reasonable to think that the

      20      Court would approve a step-down setting from

      21      institutions, including highly-structured community

      22      settings that are close to or integrated into

      23      neighborhoods.

      24             It would also be surprising for the Court to

      25      object to even a lifetime community placement in a







                                                                   92
       1      highly-structured community residence integrated

       2      into a neighborhood as an alternative for those that

       3      would otherwise need to spend their entire lives in

       4      a segregated institution.

       5             For some, these are the only choices; or, the

       6      choices that many would make even if the state had

       7      unlimited resources.

       8             So ACL encourages New York to continue to

       9      expand its housing system and to sustain each model

      10      in the continuum.

      11             We also strongly urge New York State to

      12      continue to make available capital dollars directly

      13      to the State Office of Mental Health so that it can

      14      continue to make available a large number of housing

      15      units to people with serious and persistent

      16      psychiatric illnesses.

      17             If all capital dollars were to go through one

      18      central housing office, which seems to be a

      19      possibility under the Governor, developers might be

      20      tempted to reject people with serious psychiatric

      21      disabilities who are often the most difficult to

      22      serve.  However, these are the people who are some

      23      of the highest users of Medicaid, and housing has

      24      been proven to reduce those costs.

      25             We can provide any additional information







                                                                   93
       1      that you might need, and thank you for the

       2      opportunity.

       3             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

       4             Thank you, Toni.

       5             Appreciate it.

       6             TONI LASICKI:  Thank you.

       7                  [Applause.]

       8             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Our next speaker is

       9      Mary Grace Ferone.  She's the program manager at the

      10      Legal Services of the Hudson Valley.

      11             MARY GRACE FERONE:  My name is

      12      Mary Grace Ferone.  I'm the program manager for

      13      disability and public benefits at Legal Services of

      14      the Hudson Valley.

      15             Thank you for giving me the opportunity to

      16      speak with you today.

      17             I come here today wearing three very

      18      different hats.

      19             The first is as an attorney who, for over

      20      15 years at Legal Services of the Hudson Valley, has

      21      represented individuals with serious and persistent

      22      mental illness in matters that help them maintain

      23      and secure the basic necessities of life.

      24             My second hat is as the board chair of

      25      CHOICE, a mental-health peer-advocacy and







                                                                   94
       1      case-management organization that works daily to

       2      assist persons with mental illness, and navigate

       3      bureaucracies, fight against the stigma of mental

       4      illness, and to live life to the fullest.

       5             Lastly, I come as a sister who, 32 years ago,

       6      lost her 20-year-old brother to suicide.

       7             Knowing what I know about services to persons

       8      with mental illness; particularly, what the services

       9      were back in the '80s, there weren't many.

      10      Hospitalizations and day programs seemed to be the

      11      only answer for my brother.

      12             While I acknowledge that New York State, in

      13      particular, has come a long way in providing

      14      services to individuals with mental illness, much

      15      still needs to be done to help people live healthy,

      16      alive, and living in the community.

      17             I'd like to speak with you about a service

      18      I know makes a difference in the lives of persons

      19      with mental illness; and that is civil legal

      20      services.

      21             Legal Services of the Hudson Valley is the

      22      premier provider of comprehensive legal services to

      23      low-income individuals in the Hudson Valley.

      24             We have eight offices, including

      25      Spring Valley, White Plains, Yonkers, Mount Vernon,







                                                                   95
       1      Peekskill, Poughkeepsie, Newburgh, and Kingston.

       2             We strive to serve as many eligible

       3      individuals and service as many persons with various

       4      disabilities, but the need outweighs our

       5      capabilities.

       6             Individuals who suffer from mental illness,

       7      like most other populations who are marginalized by

       8      society, regularly face legal battles to maintain

       9      the basic necessities of life.

      10             Often, these individuals struggle to maintain

      11      their housing, secure benefits to which they are

      12      entitled, struggle to keep their families together,

      13      and struggle to live with dignity and the civil

      14      rights to which they are entitled.

      15             The struggle to maintain the basic

      16      necessities of life can be overwhelming to a person

      17      struggling with mental illness.

      18             Legal problems cause increased stressors that

      19      have harsh effects.

      20             Mental health can deteriorate, cause

      21      hospitalizations.

      22             One can become homeless.

      23             One could lose their income and live without

      24      a support network.

      25             Since the early 1990s, Legal Services of the







                                                                   96
       1      Hudson Valley has been providing free legal services

       2      to Westchester residents, only, who suffer from

       3      severe and persistent mental illness, as a result of

       4      a grant from the New York State Department of

       5      Mental Health.

       6             This grant, known as "Community Support

       7      Services," should be a model replicated across the

       8      Hudson Valley and New York State.

       9             The funding provides for two full-time

      10      attorneys to provide civil legal services to the

      11      SPMI community.

      12             Of over the 350 cases handled by the project

      13      last year, the vast majority involved providing for

      14      or maintaining the necessities of life.

      15             Evictions were prevented.

      16             Benefits were obtained.

      17             Parents were reunited with their children.

      18             The experienced attorneys who work on this

      19      grant, and in conjunction with medical case managers

      20      and care coordinators, to ensure client services and

      21      avoid crises.

      22             Our attorneys also provide training on

      23      substantive legal issues relevant to the

      24      mental-health consumer community and to

      25      social-service workers.







                                                                   97
       1             I have worked in civil legal services for

       2      over 20 years, and have provided services to this

       3      community for the majority of that time.

       4             It has been my experience that services are

       5      the key to keeping people healthy and free from

       6      hospitalizations.

       7             More services are needed to create networks

       8      and referral systems so that consumers get to

       9      professionals before a crisis becomes a problem -- a

      10      problem becomes a crisis.

      11             I'm sorry.

      12             Prior to the introduction of services,

      13      homelessness, loss of income or benefits, unstable

      14      family relationships, would be the norm.

      15             Increased legal services, combined with

      16      increased availability of case management, is a key

      17      component for the success in recovery of persons

      18      with mental illness.

      19             Without the basic necessities of life being

      20      taken care of, the person can focus on being well.

      21             Thank you for your time.

      22             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you, Mary Grace.

      23             Our next panel is regarding eating disorders;

      24      and we have Neil Weiss, who's a parent-advocate, and

      25      we have Doug Bunnell, who is the national clinical







                                                                   98
       1      development officer and clinical director at

       2      Monte Nido.

       3             NEILL WEISS:  Thank you, Senator.

       4             Nice to see you, Assemblywoman Jaffee.

       5             My perspective on this is as a parent.

       6             You obviously see that I don't have any

       7      notes, so I'm going to be speaking from the heart.

       8             A lot of the issues that I've heard today are

       9      similar, and yet different, for someone who has an

      10      eating disorder.

      11             My daughter was diagnosed, quite by chance,

      12      because one of her friends at school, when she was

      13      at South High School, went to a person that was a

      14      counselor, and actually went to our daughter and

      15      said:  I think that you have an eating disorder.

      16      You actually have 24 hours to speak with your

      17      parents because, within those 24 hours, I'm then

      18      going to be calling your parents."

      19             It was very lucky that we happened to have

      20      known personally this counselor at the school.

      21             What we didn't know at that time, we didn't

      22      know the hell, and all the issues, that were going

      23      to be coming along with it.

      24             One of the things that we discovered was

      25      that, in the New York tri-state area, there are very







                                                                   99
       1      few eating-disorder specialist units, not only on a

       2      private insurance, but also through Medicaid.

       3             Medicaid has units that do look at eating

       4      disorders, but they do specialize in others areas --

       5      alcoholism; drug use; violence, whether it's

       6      domestic violence or whether it's sexual violence --

       7      and they always tag on the eating disorder with

       8      that.

       9             One thing that I've learned, you cannot place

      10      a student, a young lady or a young man, in a unit

      11      that has other people affected by other illnesses,

      12      because, as I call them, "'Ed,' the monster," will

      13      rear its ugly head and will soak up some of the

      14      other issues because it just loves and it thrives on

      15      making an illness worse, stronger.

      16             Now, one of the things that happened to me

      17      is, I had to actually leave my job, because my

      18      daughter got so ill that my wife, actually,

      19      previously, when she was younger, she had an eating

      20      disorder.

      21             Her eating disorder came out with a vicious

      22      cycle, that one was feeding off of the other.

      23             When I lost my position, I lost the

      24      insurance.  I had to go onto Medicaid.

      25             And, again, this is where the system reared







                                                                   100
       1      its head in my face, that I actually went to anybody

       2      that would listen.  That nobody has able to direct

       3      me to any different institution or facility that

       4      actually looked after eating disorders.

       5             Luckily, the Jewish Family Services had one

       6      person that joined their staff that was willing to

       7      look after our daughter on one hour per week.

       8             Now, the symptoms can actually come out

       9      earlier in life.

      10             When my daughter was placed into one of the

      11      facilities, when we did have insurance, the only

      12      two facilities that would take her, that were local,

      13      one was in Philadelphia, one was in Boston.

      14             That was the closest that we could have gone.

      15             Insurance doesn't pay for the excess gas, for

      16      tolls...for everything else that goes along

      17      accordingly with looking after someone that has an

      18      eating disorder.

      19             But the symptoms, and all the classic signs

      20      of someone with an eating disorder, these are young

      21      men and women that are highly intelligent.  They

      22      have a level of OCD with it.  They will actually

      23      hide the illness from those that are closest to

      24      them.

      25             One of the things that I would like to put







                                                                   101
       1      forward is, there is a program that I --

       2             And, Senator, you know that I lived over in

       3      Europe for over 25 years.

       4             -- they actually, and what I'm hearing from

       5      many different people here today, is early

       6      detection, early prevention, and early intervention

       7      actually works very well, over in England

       8      particularly.

       9             The money that is invested early on keeps the

      10      cost at a longer figure, going down the road, from

      11      escalating and getting higher.  And the earlier that

      12      you can actually attain and get a hold of the

      13      illness is something that is so important.

      14             At one of the facilities that I knew --

      15             Bless you.

      16             -- one of the facilities my daughter was at,

      17      they had young ladies there as young as 10, 11, and

      18      12.  And they also had women there that didn't get

      19      diagnosed early, but were in their 40s, 50s, and

      20      60s.

      21             There was one woman that my daughter got very

      22      friendly with, that we are still friendly with as a

      23      family.  She is a consultant gynecologist from a

      24      woman's hospital in Boston.

      25             She has an eating disorder that keeps on







                                                                   102
       1      coming back, and she is the first one to admit, it

       2      wasn't diagnosed and worked on earlier.

       3             Not only is she a gynecologist, but she's

       4      also pregnant, with an eating disorder.

       5             And this is a system, whereby, if not caught

       6      early enough in the school; we got a lot of

       7      information regarding drug abuse, regarding

       8      alcoholism, but not one piece of information came

       9      from the school about eating disorders.

      10             And I can tell you now, when I found out

      11      early on about eating disorders, my whole concept of

      12      what it was, was nothing like it actually really is.

      13             You do not always have young ladies, young

      14      men, looking like they're famished or that they're

      15      starving.

      16             They eat when they need to before they start

      17      collapsing.

      18             And one of the things that an eating disorder

      19      will do, it will actually affect many organs,

      20      physically, in the body a lot faster than a lot of

      21      other illnesses.

      22             They always have heart checks.

      23             Potassium levels are lower.

      24             You will find that many of these young

      25      children and young adults and young people are dying







                                                                   103
       1      from heart conditions, a heart attack.

       2             Now, one of things that I know personally is

       3      that this is in the shadows, but it really isn't.

       4             I could take you to the lobby of

       5      Spring Valley High School, of South High School, of

       6      North High School, and I could stand on one step,

       7      and I could almost point out some of the people that

       8      do have eating disorders that are not being caught

       9      by the staff.

      10             And a little training by the staff will go a

      11      long way.  That's money that could be well spent to

      12      prevent longer-term issues.

      13             And these, again, are highly intelligent

      14      people that will actually have a very big effect on

      15      society.

      16             So, really, in conclusion, I don't really

      17      have a lot to say; just that, my family is,

      18      literally, tearing apart because of this.

      19             My wife and I are at odd's ends.

      20             My daughter and I are constantly fighting, so

      21      much so, there was one time that we had to call the

      22      police, because my daughter threatened to harm

      23      herself, and she was placed in an isolation unit at

      24      Nyack Hospital.

      25             She was there for 72 hours, because we didn't







                                                                   104
       1      have private insurance at that time.  Medicaid was

       2      not able to send any psychiatrist to speak to my

       3      daughter until three days later.

       4             Now, frankly, I know that my daughter

       5      wouldn't have harmed herself dramatically; but,

       6      again, I don't know that, because I don't know

       7      what's going on in her mind.

       8             It's only lately that she's really starting

       9      to come out of her shell.

      10             And I will tell you this:

      11             The gentleman sitting next to me is from an

      12      organization called Monte Nido.

      13             They, literally, saved my daughter's life

      14      when she was in the facility up in Boston.

      15             And, again, we had to travel almost every

      16      week, and at some point, every other week, to go up

      17      and visit her, because this is a family issue that

      18      needs family involvement, very much like almost all

      19      these other illnesses that I'm hearing today.

      20             And there's no support from anyone else,

      21      other than the family.

      22             And more importantly, there is nothing in

      23      this immediate area that we can actually turn to,

      24      other than day treatment or outpatient treatment.

      25             So, that's what I have to say.







                                                                   105
       1             And I really would like to turn it over to

       2      Dr. Bunnell.

       3             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  Thank you.

       4             Thank you, Neil.

       5             And thank you both for providing leadership

       6      on this issue and bringing some light to eating

       7      disorders; and mental-health issues, in general.

       8             Mr. Weiss's story is one I've heard over

       9      and over again in my 30 years in this field, both as

      10      a clinician, and as a -- I was actually past board

      11      chair of the National Eating Disorder Association,

      12      really targeting these sorts of issues.

      13             So the good news in New York State is that

      14      New York State's actually been at the leadership of

      15      trying to craft legislation and systems to address

      16      some of these issues.

      17             The bad news is, that they remain largely

      18      underfunded, and we need to find ways to actually

      19      bring life to these organizations.

      20             So, I want to sort of start with the good

      21      news, and sort of close with the needs.

      22             Let me just give you a little context; again,

      23      the personal face of the story.

      24             This is a story that many families go

      25      through.  Like, they don't know about eating







                                                                   106
       1      disorders until they have to know about eating

       2      disorders, and then they are trying to navigate

       3      their way through a system that is complicated

       4      through an illness that is multi-dimensional, often

       5      requires multiple care providers, often has a

       6      prolonged and protracted course.

       7             Most people do get better, but it often takes

       8      a long time, and it can wreak havoc, not just on the

       9      individual, but on families as well.

      10             In the United States, approximately

      11      30 million people suffer from eating disorders.

      12             Those are from diagnoseable disorders, such

      13      as anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, and, now,

      14      binge-eating disorder.

      15             If you sort of extend the labels a little

      16      bit, or the criteria a little bit, we're looking at

      17      a sizable proportion of people; upwards of

      18      30 percent of high school girls, and 16 percent of

      19      high school boys, who endorse symptoms of disordered

      20      eating that may not reach the threshold of formal

      21      diagnosis, but, are troublesome.

      22             So, we're talking about laxative use,

      23      self-induced vomiting, dietary restriction,

      24      overexercise.

      25             With boys, we're looking at issues like







                                                                   107
       1      growth-hormone abuse, steroid abuse, things like

       2      that, to build their bodies, because of their

       3      anxiety about bodies.

       4             So independent of whether they have an actual

       5      formal diagnosis, there's a tremendous amount of

       6      pain, distress, dysfunction, and impairment

       7      associated with disordered eating that we need to be

       8      mindful of, as well.

       9             Eating disorders have the highest mortality

      10      rate of any psychiatric illness.  It's a little

      11      known fact outside of the eating-disorders world.

      12      Most people still perceive eating disorders as

      13      relatively benign diagnoses.

      14             These are serious mental illnesses that

      15      really do great damage to the psyche, the body, as

      16      Neil mentioned.

      17             Among the 15-to-24-year-old age range, you

      18      know, people in that range with an eating disorder

      19      have a 12 times higher risk of premature death than

      20      their non-eating-disorder counterparts.

      21             So these are serious illnesses.

      22             Actually there's some evidence -- I can get

      23      you the citations -- that the greatest amount of

      24      health-care dollars spent on behavioral issues in

      25      adolescents is around eating disorders.







                                                                   108
       1             If you talk to the insurance companies -- and

       2      I'll come back to that in a moment -- the insurance

       3      companies, their greatest distress is around the

       4      amount of money they have to pay to provide care for

       5      this population.  It's actually the number-one

       6      behavioral-health cost for the insurance companies.

       7             So we need to do a better job of, as you

       8      said, intervening early, preventing some of the

       9      downstream more -- complications, that include

      10      things like bone loss and brain shrinkage and

      11      infertility and depression and anxiety.

      12             There really is tremendous amount of damage

      13      that cascades out of an eating disorder if it's left

      14      undiagnosed, untreated.

      15             It is actually anorexia nervosa, which is

      16      actually the least-common eating disorder.  It's

      17      sort of the face of eating disorders, so the face is

      18      usually a young woman who is starving herself.

      19             That woman is -- and the misconception is

      20      usually Caucasian and upper-middle class.

      21             Those are misnomers, misperceptions.

      22             These are illnesses that affect all ethnic

      23      groups, all religious groups.

      24             You know, as I mentioned earlier, they affect

      25      both genders, with some differences, but we know







                                                                   109
       1      boys are under-diagnosed, under-attended to, in

       2      terms of these disorders.

       3             And just to shift to the current snapshot of

       4      what's going on in New York:

       5             Until -- well, up until tomorrow, OMH

       6      willing, we will open up a residential treatment

       7      program in New York, in Irvington.

       8             It will be the -- only the second residential

       9      treatment program in New York State history for

      10      people with eating disorders.

      11             The other one was in the Elmira region, and

      12      closed down several years ago.

      13             So we are -- we sort of worked through the

      14      process of getting that program open.  It's been

      15      complicated and challenging, but, I think we've

      16      heard from -- over and over again, from families and

      17      providers in the area, there's is a great need here.

      18             The story that Neil describes of families

      19      needing to go out of state for treatment is

      20      gut-wrenching.

      21             Can you imagine having -- you know, being

      22      newly diagnosed, and having to say to a 15-,

      23      16-year-old, let's say, daughter, you're now told

      24      that, for her to get comprehensive care, she's going

      25      to need to go to Philadelphia.  Often even go to the







                                                                   110
       1      west coast.  There are programs in Utah, of all

       2      places, that do this.

       3             But imagine the distress that causes the

       4      family.

       5             Beyond that, we know, too, that the most

       6      effective treatments for people with eating

       7      disorders involve family.  And we have to find ways

       8      to facilitate that.

       9             So to be able to provide treatment in

      10      New York State for New York State residents is

      11      absolutely critical.  It improves treatment

      12      outcomes, and will help to deter some of those

      13      downstream costs.

      14             If we're going to do that, it's critical that

      15      we build a network of treatment providers and

      16      treatment resources across the state.

      17             The Comprehensive Care Centers for Eating

      18      Disorder -- the CCCED, which is the last time I'll

      19      say that, because I can never say it without

      20      stumbling -- but, the Comprehensive Care Centers

      21      have centers in the Rochester area, the Albany area,

      22      and downstate.

      23             It's essential that we continue to try to

      24      link those centers together, and link treatment

      25      providers in between those regions with those







                                                                   111
       1      providers.  That takes resources.

       2             This CCCED mandate, as I mentioned, they do

       3      exist, and they are, really, sort of models for what

       4      other states should be doing, but they remain

       5      underfunded.

       6             Most eating-disorder patients in New York

       7      struggle to find a single point of access for care,

       8      so that the normative experience for people or

       9      families with an eating disorder is, they go, Oh, my

      10      God, where do I go?

      11             No sort of sense that it's, you know, a very

      12      complicated system.

      13             There are organizations, like National Eating

      14      Disorders Association, that can get people pointed

      15      in the right direction.  But, we need to do a better

      16      job in New York State of directing people to care.

      17             The bill also established support in coaching

      18      and case-management resources, which are just

      19      essential.

      20             Again, if we can help people find their way

      21      to treatment, provide community supports, we can

      22      actually avoid or deter inpatient admissions, which

      23      are costly and problematic, obviously, for families.

      24             So I think that one of the developments in

      25      the field over the past several years has been







                                                                   112
       1      extending this continuum of care, to look at

       2      providing outpatient treatments, supports, that help

       3      patients and families stay in their homes, stay in

       4      their communities.

       5             Residential care is one piece of that

       6      continuum, but, the critical part of the treatment

       7      actually takes part in recovery.  It takes part

       8      after people step out of 24/7 care and need to

       9      reenter the community.

      10             And the dropoff from a 24/7 environment to

      11      once-a-week outpatient therapy is precipitous, and

      12      many patients struggle in that shift.

      13             So we're looking to be creative at trying to

      14      provide resources and support in that, that link, if

      15      you will.

      16             Again, I really want to stress, trying to

      17      build and facilitate residential care here in

      18      New York will allow families to stay here in

      19      New York, and really benefit, you know, patients and

      20      their families.

      21             I also want to just briefly highlight a

      22      success.

      23             Assemblywoman Gunther and Senator Hannon were

      24      part of a bill that mandates now public awareness

      25      and education for eating disorders, that's so







                                                                   113
       1      essential.

       2             The issue of stigma in all mental illness,

       3      but certainly with eating disorders, is just

       4      profound.

       5             There's such shame, and sort of misconception

       6      associated with these disorders, that whatever we

       7      can do to educate is going to be helpful.

       8             So, I just conclude by saying:

       9             We know that providing a full continuum of

      10      care with easy access, and referral across that

      11      continuum, will help patients and families.

      12             We can save lives, we can save resources, and

      13      at the same time, facilitating that sort of fully

      14      functional comprehensive-care model, we really have

      15      sort of the skeleton in place to do that, but, can

      16      we bring resources to really bring that to life?

      17             Thank you.

      18             NEILL WEISS:  I would like to add one thing

      19      on this.

      20             One of the -- as Doug mentioned, one of the

      21      areas that New York really does have that's well, is

      22      we have the National Eating Disorder Association

      23      located in New York, in Manhattan.

      24             They're a phenomenal resource, but that's all

      25      they are, they are a resource.







                                                                   114
       1             What I'm advocating is, an education early

       2      on, that, we're educating the educators so that they

       3      then can go out into their field.  And we're

       4      speaking -- I'm speaking of the teachers, of

       5      principals, because they are the ones that see the

       6      students early on, and they are the ones that see

       7      the changes more than the family does.

       8             And you have an option, and you have an

       9      opportunity here, to actually make use of the

      10      facilities in the New York area, and it all doesn't

      11      have to come from public money.

      12             There are numerous amount of companies that

      13      I have actually approached, with regards to eating

      14      disorders, that are more than willing to actually

      15      get on board, and help lose and help get away from

      16      the stigma that's in this, and raise the awareness.

      17             So this could actually be a very good

      18      opportunity for yourselves to actually point the way

      19      to actually use not only public and private funds,

      20      but to really use this knowledge that we have in

      21      this area, and get it out there to the right people.

      22             Thank you.

      23             Do you have any questions?

      24             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Just one question about

      25      the Monte Nido, and, you said you're opening







                                                                   115
       1      tomorrow?

       2             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  We are awaiting formal

       3      approval from the Office of Mental Health on that;

       4      but, yes, some time in the near future we will open.

       5             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And how many people will

       6      you be able to --

       7             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  14 beds for, at this

       8      point, women, 18 years of age and above.

       9             We hope to actually be sort of spinning off a

      10      male program within the next year.

      11             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And those 14 people that

      12      will be taking advantage of those services, where

      13      will the funding come from?

      14             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  Mostly through their

      15      private health insurance.

      16             We will have a percent of, sort of,

      17      non-revenue care that we provide as part of our --

      18             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Do you anticipate an issue

      19      with Medicaid?

      20             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  We have been working with

      21      that issue, and how we're going to sort of manage

      22      the Medicaid relationship.

      23             It's complicated.

      24             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Okay.

      25             NEILL WEISS:  Well, I just want to add one







                                                                   116
       1      thing.

       2             My daughter, being that she is actually in

       3      the New York unit, Monte Nido does have

       4      scholarships, and they have given my daughter a

       5      scholarship.

       6             Again, I say that they saved her life, but

       7      most importantly, this is a facility, these are

       8      people, and it's not just Monte Nido, they do care.

       9             And there are scholarships.

      10             And Medicaid is -- as I know personally, it

      11      is absolutely diabolical when you're trying to get a

      12      hold of people.  And, I hate to say it, sometimes to

      13      them, it's a 9-to-5 job.  But, more importantly,

      14      they are constrained to what they are able to do.

      15             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And just another question

      16      for Dr. Bunnell.

      17             The -- has your experience been that private

      18      insurance is good in covering people with eating

      19      disorders?

      20             Because that's what it sounded like so far.

      21             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  Uhm, it's important to

      22      provide access to care based on people's insurance,

      23      so I think it does pay for a level of care that

      24      helps many people.

      25             There are many people who struggle to







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       1      actually get comprehensive and fully effective care

       2      based on their health-care insurance, and, ongoing

       3      tensions.  So many people, one of the issues we see,

       4      is that people will be sort of pulled out of

       5      treatment prematurely, based on sort of, you know,

       6      pulling back with funding, and so forth.

       7             You then sort of relapse, and, you know,

       8      they're partially recovered, and then, sort of

       9      relapse, and then actually need to spend more money

      10      to go through another cycle of treatment.

      11             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Because one of problems

      12      we've seen on the work we've done with people with

      13      addiction, particularly the rise in heroin addiction

      14      that we see, is that we've had a real problem with

      15      private insurance.

      16             And it's been around, What is the definition

      17      of "addiction"?  And when do we meet that threshold

      18      to have inpatient services?

      19             So that's why I was wondering if you've come

      20      across --

      21             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  No, I mean, it's a very

      22      complicated issue, and I would be happy to talk

      23      offline further about it.

      24             But, one of the issues that comes up is the

      25      point at which you -- or, how you define "recovery."







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       1             And one of the issues we run into, both in

       2      the addictions world and, certainly, with eating

       3      disorders, is that full symptom remission; meaning,

       4      cessation of symptoms, like binge eating or purging

       5      or starvation, would be one marker of recovery.

       6             What we understand, for most people, is that

       7      there's work that needs to go on beyond that.  And,

       8      often, that can be longer term sort of work.  And,

       9      insurers are reluctant.

      10             I mean, if I'm in their shoes, I understand

      11      their reluctance, but, they're reluctant to pay

      12      beyond a certain threshold.

      13             So we often have people sort of getting just

      14      to that point, and then needing to be, you know,

      15      drastically reduced in the level of intensity.  And

      16      that, actually, is where the relapses tend to occur.

      17             NEILL WEISS:  When my daughter was in both of

      18      the different facilities, there were times that she

      19      would -- we would be speaking on a regular basis if

      20      we weren't visiting her, and she would actually come

      21      and say to us:

      22             "I've been given three more days from the

      23      insurance company, and then they have to

      24      reevaluate";

      25             "I've been given another two more days";







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       1             Or "I've been given another week."

       2             She would have her bags packed, until the

       3      actual phone call with the eating-disorder facility

       4      and with the insurance company.  And she would not

       5      know, even that day, if that was going to be her

       6      last day at the facility.

       7             So, when you speak of the addictions with

       8      heroin, it's very similar.

       9             They have a different definition than what's

      10      out there, than what is actually from life

      11      experience.

      12             So, if you -- when you say, Have we had a

      13      good experience with the insurance companies?

      14             No; because, literally, at a moment's notice,

      15      our daughter would have called us up and said, This

      16      is my last day, you have to come and get me.

      17             And that's gut-wrenching, because we know

      18      that she's not cured.

      19             And we know that from other people as well.

      20             The eating disorder will pick up and it will

      21      thrive on that, because it will say, Oh, I'm cured,

      22      but, I want to do more.  I want to just -- I really

      23      want to take over.

      24             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  So certainly one other

      25      frontier for work, if you need more work, would be







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       1      to look at, sort of, the insurance, sort of,

       2      standards.

       3             I mean, they vary tremendously across

       4      policies, across states.

       5             Definitions; insurance companies have

       6      different level-of-care criteria that are

       7      increasingly transparent, but not always easily

       8      transparent, so it's hard to know how they're

       9      actually making decisions or authorizations about

      10      level of care.

      11             And, so, there are other states that have

      12      done some work in this area too.

      13             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

      14             Well, thank you so much.

      15             DR. DOUG BUNNELL:  Thank you both so much.

      16             NEILL WEISS:  Thank you.

      17             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Our next panel is on

      18      mental-health supports and services.

      19             We have Edgardo Sanchez, and

      20      Ilana Slaff-Galatan.

      21             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  Good afternoon.

      22             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Good afternoon.

      23             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  Senator, it's nice to see

      24      you again.

      25             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Yes.







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       1             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  I'm going to say, thank you

       2      for holding today's public hearing, and for giving

       3      us the opportunity to testify.

       4             We appear before you today, not as

       5      mental-health professionals or governmental experts;

       6      but, rather, as a family with nearly 38 years of

       7      experience with the New York State provides --

       8      excuse me, which the way New York State provides,

       9      or, in many cases, is unable to provide,

      10      desperately-needed services for those with mental

      11      illnesses in developmental disabilities.

      12             Let us tell you about our experiences.

      13             First I want to say, my wife -- I get very

      14      emotional -- my wife can't, or won't, make these

      15      meeting because she feels very guilty about our son.

      16             Okay.

      17             Our son Brandon (ph.) Sanchez began to

      18      exhibit alarming behavior very early in his life.

      19             He suffered with generalized grand mal

      20      seizures from the time that he was six months old,

      21      and was diagnosed with a medical condition known as

      22      "tubular sclerosis."

      23             Tubular sclerosis is a rare multi-system

      24      genetic disease that causes tumors to grow on the

      25      brain and other vital organs.







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       1             A combination of symptoms, including

       2      seizures, intellectual disability, developmental

       3      disability, behavior, problems in skin, and other

       4      abnormalities; all of which my son suffers from.

       5             At the age of 2, he was enrolled in a day

       6      program close to our home.

       7             Staff in the facility were trained well

       8      enough to work with children with Brandon's

       9      condition; those that mentally challenged and suffer

      10      from autism.

      11             So my son has the double-whammy.

      12             From the age of 6, Brandon began to exhibit

      13      violent self-injury behaviors, such as slapping,

      14      pinching, biting, himself, and sometimes others.

      15             At that age, also, he was breaking all the

      16      windows in the house with his head.

      17             Never got cut.

      18             I got cut.

      19             He displayed this behavior so frequently

      20      that, physically, he appeared to be an abused and

      21      battered child, which have been called many times,

      22      cops used to come to my house.

      23             He also exhibited rumination and projectile

      24      vomiting, which has caused some ulcers and scarring

      25      of his trachea and stomach.







                                                                   123
       1             Due to the force which he slapped his face,

       2      Brandon suffered detached retina, which had to be

       3      surgically reattached.

       4             Because of all the dangerous and maladjusted

       5      behaviors that my son was displaying, the day

       6      program was no longer acclimated to or functional.

       7      The staff could no longer meet his needs.  His

       8      behaviors had become extremely self-injurious and

       9      life-threatening.

      10             We did much research, and visited numerous

      11      facilities recommended by the mental-health

      12      officials in New York.

      13             Okay, one of them was Creedmoor.

      14             If anybody knows about Creedmoor, that's more

      15      like a freaking prison than a mental institution.

      16      Okay?  High fences, barbed wires, I ruled that out.

      17             When Brandon was 12, we chose the

      18      Judge Rotenberg Center in Canton, Massachusetts.

      19             Brandon has been at the center for 25 years.

      20             He is now almost 38 years old.

      21             Honestly speaking, it was a heart-wrenching

      22      decision to place him outside of our home, but our

      23      first visit to the Judge Rotenberg Center, we sensed

      24      that this might be the right place for Brandon.

      25             Upon presentation of the center's strong







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       1      behavior approach, the extensive monitoring of

       2      staff, and rigorous quality-control measures, and

       3      consistent approach to treatment, we became

       4      convinced that this program was capable of

       5      effectively treating our son's dangerous behaviors

       6      and could afford him the quality of life that he is

       7      entitled to.

       8             Our initial apprehension, when Brandon first

       9      came to JRC, which was formerly called

      10      "Behavioral Research Institute," which I'll explain

      11      how they got "JRC" later, has given way to

      12      acceptance, and then gratitude.  This program has

      13      proven to be a lifesaver for our son.

      14             After admission to the Judge Rotenberg

      15      Center, Brandon's life-threatening behaviors

      16      plummeted, and he started to smile again.  He spends

      17      most of his days happy and relaxed.

      18             His skin was healed, but no longer looks

      19      bruised and battered.

      20             We thought this was where Brandon would find

      21      a safe haven, and time has proven us right.

      22             We have learned through the years how capable

      23      and compassionate and well-trained their staff are,

      24      which makes us extremely comfortable in knowing that

      25      his every need is being met in a professional manner







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       1      and safe environment.

       2             When he comes home, and he's home for the

       3      weekend, we almost thought he would have a problem

       4      to go back.

       5             Come Sunday, he's ready to go back, on his

       6      own.  And this is from a young man that really

       7      doesn't have the capacity, you know, to fully

       8      understand.

       9             We couldn't be happier in his progress and

      10      his current quality of life.

      11             Brandon is content at JRC, and that puts our

      12      minds at ease.

      13             Were it not for this program, we would fully

      14      believe that our son would not be alive today.

      15             And I'm going to give you an instance.

      16             Some years ago, my son's program was taken

      17      away from him, because of the contribution --

      18      controversial procedures that they use at the

      19      school.

      20             Finally, Judge Rotenberg had the insight, and

      21      the compassion, to restore his program.

      22             My son dropped down to 35 pounds.

      23             Talking about disorders, eating disorders,

      24      that's a biggie.

      25             And, that's why they changed the name from







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       1      BRI (Behavioral Research) to Judge Rotenberg Center.

       2             He was our crusader for the school and the

       3      rights of the children.

       4             We are not lawyers, and we cannot speak to

       5      you about Olmsted decision, and how New York goes

       6      about the task in implementing it, but we urge you

       7      to remember, that bringing Brandon closer to home or

       8      putting him in a less-restrictive environment is not

       9      doing Brandon any favors.

      10             Huh, just the contrary.

      11             Unless and until New York State has developed

      12      programs that have the experience and resources to

      13      treat our son effectively, and to continue to keep

      14      him safe and healthy, bringing Brandon back to

      15      New York will only harm him.

      16             I sincerely feel that from my heart.

      17             My son comes back to New York, without the

      18      proper program, just put him up against the wall and

      19      shoot him, because he's not going to last long.

      20             We have been told by many professionals that

      21      if our son is forced to return to New York and he

      22      fails one of the [unintelligible] community

      23      programs, he would not likely -- I mean, he would

      24      most likely end up in a development center or other

      25      type of psychiatric facility.







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       1             My son deserves a continue -- to continue to

       2      remain in a highly-structural program that has

       3      served him well over the past 25 years.

       4             Forcing him to return to a system of care

       5      that failed him so badly would definitely prove to

       6      be cataphobic (ph.).

       7             We don't want to see Brandon placed in a

       8      life-threatening situation, robbed of the

       9      opportunity that we all entitled to as human beings,

      10      which is life itself.

      11             Sometimes I feel an inmate gets better

      12      treatment in prison and has more rights than my son

      13      does.

      14             I mean, to feel like that, I tell you (makes

      15      a sound).

      16             New York maintains a philosophy of

      17      person-centered planning for individuals with

      18      developmental disabilities.

      19             Because our son does not have the capability

      20      of making decisions for himself, he does not speak.

      21             His IQ, people don't have to worry about

      22      "mental retardation."

      23             I use it.  I'm not afraid of it.  It's in the

      24      dictionary.

      25             People get offended sometimes.







                                                                   128
       1             I do not get offended by that word.

       2             And to me, my son is brilliant.

       3             In his own way, he is brilliant.

       4             However, we are sure that if our son could

       5      express his choice, he would choose to live in the

       6      home that he has resided for the last 25 years with

       7      the people that know him best and are most capable

       8      of caring for them.  And they do.

       9             I see it every time I go.

      10             I go there unannounced.  I have leeway;

      11      I decide.

      12             My brother, he's a big crusader.

      13             He's a state rep, Jeffrey Sanchez, from

      14      Boston.  He's been fighting for the school for years

      15      now.

      16             Olmsted implementation must be done in a

      17      manner that reflects compassion, common sense, and

      18      sound judgment.

      19             Tearing Brandon away from the home where he

      20      has found respite for the past 25 years, to try and

      21      improve a potentially dangerous place, is cruel,

      22      dangerous, and counterproductive.

      23             We urge you, as the Chair of the

      24      Mental Health Committee, to show that people like

      25      our son are not put at risk in had name of







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       1      implementing the Olmstead decision.

       2             That Olmstead decision is -- if there was a

       3      program in New York, man, bring him back.

       4             I would love to have my son back.

       5             But, that's the reason that we were sent to

       6      Massachusetts, because there wasn't.

       7             There wasn't a program 25 years ago, and

       8      there isn't one now.

       9             So, I don't know, how -- how -- what the

      10      result of this is going to be, because, I don't know

      11      if the Governor is going to have enough compassion

      12      to pass that bill.

      13             I don't know.

      14             I don't know.

      15             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  That's my legislation.

      16             And I wrote that legislation in response to

      17      situations that I heard about, families that I have

      18      discussed this with.

      19             And, truthfully, I think it's unacceptable to

      20      arbitrarily demand that they return, especially

      21      over 21.

      22             So, the legislation would provide the

      23      opportunity for the parents to seek -- to be able to

      24      contest that in court.

      25             At least have an opportunity to suggest that







                                                                   130
       1      the placements that are suggested are not

       2      acceptable, based on the circumstances.

       3             So, we are waiting to pass both the Assembly

       4      and the Senate, and we are awaiting the Governor to

       5      sign it --

       6             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  We were informed, and we

       7      were told, that if our children are placed in a

       8      state institution, right, we might have no rights.

       9             If it doesn't work, we may not have no

      10      rights.

      11             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  That's right.

      12             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  They might take our rights

      13      away from us.

      14             I'll be damned if they do that.

      15             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  It's unacceptable,

      16      you're right, and that's why I sponsored the

      17      legislation.

      18             And I hope that the Governor will hear your

      19      message.

      20             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  Well, I hope he does.

      21             I sent him enough e-mails.

      22             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  Thank you for your

      23      courage.

      24             EDGARDO SANCHEZ:  Thank you.

      25             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Ilana.







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       1             ILANA SLAFF-GALATAN:  Hi.  Thank you,

       2      Senator Carlucci, for holding this public hearing

       3      and giving us the opportunity to have our voices

       4      heard.

       5             And thank you, Assemblywoman Jaffee, too, for

       6      listening us to.

       7             I have identical twin brothers, and I have a

       8      daughter, with autism.

       9             I'm also a practicing psychiatrist.  I

      10      completed many fellowship at the Mount Sinai Seaver

      11      Center, in autism.

      12             And, I am concerned about the supports and

      13      services for individuals, and families, dealing with

      14      developmental disabilities in New York State,

      15      particularly regarding my brother.

      16             My brother Matthew has been living at an

      17      out-of-state residential adult facility in

      18      Massachusetts, the Judge Rotenberg Center, for over

      19      25 years, after he was placed at the Judge Rotenberg

      20      Center, at age 17.

      21             He's on seven positive-behavioral contracts

      22      at once, and, he earns preferred items all day long,

      23      for being safe.

      24             He also receives functional-communication

      25      tokens to help him to request breaks rather than







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       1      having a dangerous behavior.

       2             When living at home, my brother banged his

       3      head into sharp corner.  He also developed

       4      neuroleptic malignant syndrome.  That is a deadly

       5      side effect you can get from anti-psychotic

       6      medication.

       7             He developed it from Haldol.

       8             And, he also required surgery to his head for

       9      self-injury.

      10             He was in the hospital for 5 1/2 months, and

      11      despite having a staff member present with him

      12      around the clock, he continued to need repeated

      13      suturing for repeated headbanging.

      14             And this all occurred despite polypharmacy,

      15      with five medications, which gave him obesity,

      16      tardive dyskinesia, loss of ability to verbally

      17      communicate, drooling, and daytime -- excessive

      18      daytime sedation.

      19             He was sleeping about 16 hours a day.

      20             The Board of Education told my mother that

      21      there's no educational facility that will accept

      22      him, and, she was requested to waive his right to an

      23      education.

      24             In other words, they felt he was untrainable.

      25             She refused.







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       1             Furthermore, the medical insurance was

       2      running out, and my parents were told that they

       3      could be held responsible for the hospitalization

       4      costs.

       5             And I remember my father wondering, Could the

       6      hospital possibly take our house from us?

       7             However, through my mother's, physician, she

       8      was informed about the Judge Rotenberg Center.

       9             He's been doing quite well there for over

      10      25 years.  No more headbanging, and no medication.

      11             He was on an aversive device, a 2-second skin

      12      shock.  He hasn't needed it now for over two years.

      13             And, we've taken him on trips to other

      14      states.

      15             My other brother who is not at JRC, he was

      16      functioning quite well in the past.  And as an

      17      adult, had a full-time job for about three years,

      18      without any medication, and he was travel-trained.

      19             He moved into a New York State Office of

      20      People with Developmental Disabilities (OPWDD)

      21      -funded agency residence while holding this job.

      22             He lost his job after a fellow co-worker

      23      teased him.

      24             My brother, because of his autism, he knew he

      25      worked nine to four.  And this co-worker kept







                                                                   134
       1      repeating to him, you have to work until five today.

       2             My brother got more and more agitated,

       3      grabbed this butcher knife, and lost his job.

       4             And then, after he lost his job, he totally

       5      deteriorated in his functioning.  He became obsessed

       6      with setting fires.  He tried to set a pier and

       7      himself on fire.  He's had numerous

       8      hospitalizations.

       9             Although the staff at the residence where he

      10      lives, they're kind and concerned, he has failed the

      11      positive-behavior supports with the

      12      functional-behavior assessment, determining the

      13      functions of the behaviors.  And, he has had the

      14      positive therapies, but they have never been nearly

      15      as intensive as what JRC has been able to provide to

      16      his twin.

      17             He's been on at least 15 medication trials

      18      which has caused obesity, tardive dyskinesia --

      19      those are permanent, abnormal, involuntary movements

      20      that he has -- sedation, and seizures.

      21             At a family gathering, he became agitated,

      22      obsessed with material, and he hit my grandmother,

      23      who was then 99 years old, in the face.

      24             He was too agitated to attend her

      25      100th birthday party, even though he lived in the







                                                                   135
       1      neighborhood.

       2             And his twin came in from JRC.

       3             So, the Olmstead decision is not applicable

       4      if someone has dangerous behavior.

       5             You can't -- dangerous behavior precludes

       6      community integration.

       7             In the past, at least in New York, people are

       8      discharged and suspended from their day programs due

       9      to behaviors.

      10             This happened to a number of my patients.

      11             They're left alone at home with an elderly

      12      parent in a potentially dangerous situation.

      13             So, in other words, if the day program, with

      14      all their professionals, can't handle the behavior,

      15      they dump the problem onto the elderly parent.

      16             Two prior students from JRC (Judge Rotenberg

      17      Center), who returned to New York, they died from

      18      their behaviors in their 20s.

      19             I do not want my brother to die too.

      20             There are many problems with medication

      21      management for self-injury.  And this,

      22      unfortunately, is being used pervasively in New York

      23      in replacement for applied-behavior analysis.

      24             Yes, there are some people who need

      25      medications, but we should not be replacing ABA with







                                                                   136
       1      medications.  It's completely unethical; it's wrong.

       2             Risperdal received FDA approval for autism.

       3      However, in the -- those clinical trials, that were

       4      placebo-controlled, they did not differentiate

       5      between mild and severe behavior in their outcome

       6      measures.  And, they used an outcome measure known

       7      as the "Aberrant Behavior Checklist."

       8             Only 3 of the 15 components on that list

       9      relate to self-injury.  They never published the

      10      breakdown of those components.

      11             And, also, the sedation rate for those

      12      individuals with autism in the Risperdal trials was

      13      49 percent.

      14             That's opposed to the single digits for

      15      schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

      16             Okay?  All right?

      17             So we're using a lot of chemical sedation.

      18             And we don't know if those -- because of the

      19      high sedation rate, we do not know if that reported

      20      improvement in the total behavior and that -- in

      21      that outcome-measure score was due to -- had the

      22      sedation had an influence on that.

      23             In addition, when we looked at ABILIFY

      24      (aripiprazole), which also received an FDA approval,

      25      they did publish that breakdown on that







                                                                   137
       1      Aberrant Behavior Checklist outcome measure --

       2      irritability subscale outcome measure.

       3             And when they looked at self-injury, those

       4      three components, they did not do better than

       5      placebo -- they did not do significantly better than

       6      placebo, even though the total score showed an

       7      improvement.

       8             So, that's really important to note when

       9      we're using these medications for self-injury.

      10             Furthermore, up to 60 percent of individuals

      11      with autism, without clinical seizures, if you do

      12      EEGs (electroencephalograms) on their brain, you

      13      will notice that they have subclinical seizures.

      14      They have seizure activity that you don't see

      15      clinically.

      16             Now, you put them on these anti-psychotics,

      17      you can bring out the seizures.

      18             And that happened to my brother.

      19             It also can be particularly dangerous to use

      20      medication in individuals who can't communicate

      21      their side effects, and, you can't get them to

      22      comply with the prescribing guidelines, such as

      23      blood pressures and blood tests.

      24             I do not want my brother at JRC to be placed

      25      on medications again, when intensive-behavior







                                                                   138
       1      management has shown them both to be unnecessary and

       2      previously ineffective for him.

       3             I have been working with the

       4      developmentally-disabled population, exclusively,

       5      for eight years in New York.

       6             And like my brother who also lives in

       7      New York, there is no choice but to administer

       8      polypharmacy that makes these individuals sleep much

       9      of the day to control their behavior.

      10             They have diabetes, heart disease, liver

      11      toxicity, among other adverse effects.

      12             Sometimes they die very young from these

      13      adverse effects, in early adulthood, because they

      14      have all of these adverse effects for years.

      15             When I see them, I think of my brother at

      16      JRC, and how, by returning him to an inappropriate

      17      placement in New York, he will be like them, either

      18      sick or dead.

      19             And that precludes the Olmstead Act, because

      20      that's not community integration.

      21             Recently, an OPWDD-funded agency where my

      22      cousin resides attempted to remove his parents'

      23      legal guardianship, because his parents refused to

      24      consent to more toxic medication.

      25             They took my cousin to court.







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       1             In the past, OPWDD has sent my parents a

       2      letter, asking for our agency preferences.

       3             I left messages, return messages, on the

       4      phone number provided in that letter.

       5             No response.

       6             I sent a certified letter to OPWDD.

       7             No response.

       8             My school district has never been

       9      unresponsive to this degree with my daughter,

      10      because they know I have the right to an impartial

      11      hearing.

      12             Placements that have been offered so far by

      13      OPWDD to my brother have not even had a

      14      board-certified behavior analyst on staff.

      15             The placements OPWDD proposed did not provide

      16      intensive positive-behavioral interventions,

      17      functional-communication tokens, or aversive

      18      therapy.

      19             An independent expert who visited the

      20      placements has stated that my brother's life would

      21      be in danger at these facilities.

      22             My family only wants to make sure my brother

      23      is safe and can function.

      24             The State made the right decision 25 --

      25      until -- for the past 25 years, to keep him in a







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       1      place where he can be safe and function, until they

       2      could develop a place in New York that he could be

       3      safe and function.

       4             Given that the current state of support and

       5      services in New York for individuals like my brother

       6      is so clearly inadequate, we are gravely concerned.

       7             Moreover, it is an inherent conflict of

       8      interest for a funding agency; in this case, it's

       9      OPWDD, to unilaterally decide what is appropriate.

      10             We are only asking for the same due-process

      11      rights that all disabled individuals in New York

      12      have, and which everyone with a disability under the

      13      age of 21 has.

      14             If S-7374/A-9729, which I'm so grateful that

      15      you sponsored, is signed by the Governor, my brother

      16      will have those rights.

      17             He was only placed outside of New York to

      18      begin with because no place in New York would accept

      19      him.

      20             And, again, we only want my brother to live,

      21      function, and have a quality of life.

      22             That's all we're asking for.

      23             I have a statement from the JRC Parents

      24      Association.  If anyone is interested, they could

      25      pick it up.







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       1             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

       2             Well, thank you so much for your testimony.

       3             We really appreciate it.

       4             Thank you.

       5             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  Thank you for sharing.

       6             ILANA SLAFF-GALATAN:  You're welcome.

       7                  [Applause.]

       8             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  And our next speaker is

       9      Susan Kent, who's the president of the

      10      Public Employees Federation.

      11             SUSAN KENT:  Good afternoon now, isn't it?

      12             Good afternoon, Senator Carlucci.

      13             Good afternoon, Assemblywoman Jaffee.

      14             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Good afternoon.

      15             SUSAN KENT:  So, I was told I was long-winded

      16      last time, so I won't be long-winded today.

      17             Thank you for holding this hearing.

      18             I have brought testimony with me too.

      19             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Great.

      20             SUSAN KENT:  Additional testimony.

      21             So, you've said who I am.

      22             I'm Susan Kent, and I'm very proud to

      23      represent the members of the Public Employees

      24      Federation.

      25             We are 54,000 members' strong, and we are the







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       1      professionals that provide the services in the state

       2      of New York, including services to individuals

       3      living with mental-health issues.

       4             I want to thank you for your leadership in

       5      ensuring in this year's state budget --

       6             And this was no small feat on your part, and

       7      I can't stress enough, our thanks.

       8             -- that any savings resulting from

       9      Governor Cuomo's proposed mental-health-facility

      10      closures, should be, must be, reinvested in

      11      community mental-health-care services, to follow the

      12      patients prior to any closing of any facilities.

      13             As we have seen far too often, when public

      14      facilities close, the savings from those closures

      15      rarely make it into the community, and the results

      16      are disastrous.

      17             Patients, with nowhere to go, do not receive

      18      the care or treatment they need.

      19             Many end up in costly emergency rooms, on the

      20      streets, in jail or prison, or, even worse, God

      21      forbid.

      22             As you may be aware, the Treatment Advocacy

      23      Center is a national not-profit organization

      24      dedicated to eliminating barriers to the timely and

      25      effective treatment of severe mental illness.







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       1             According to an April 2014 report by the

       2      Treatment Advocacy Center, there are 10 times as

       3      many persons living with mental illness in jail or

       4      prison as there are receiving the necessary

       5      treatment in psychiatric inpatient facilities.

       6             Jails and prisons have become the new

       7      alternative to inpatient psychiatric facilities in

       8      our society because the money saved from closing

       9      facilities was never reinvested into community

      10      mental-health-care programs.

      11             We absolutely need to remain steadfast that

      12      this does not occur again.

      13             That is why it was crucial to push a

      14      requirement to reinvest those savings into the

      15      community at the beginning of the process, and

      16      before, any actual facility closures took place.

      17             Again, your leadership in sponsoring

      18      legislation in the Senate and in the Assembly is

      19      vital for both of the patients and for my members.

      20             Last month, OMH began releasing funding for

      21      various community-based programs, totaling

      22      $6.6 million around New York State.

      23             Just last week, OMH announced that the

      24      Hudson Valley would receive $2.25 million, for

      25      several counties, including $449,668 for







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       1      Rockland County, and 225,000 for Sullivan County.

       2             As an initial investment for community-based

       3      services, these dollars are a good and positive step

       4      forward.

       5             If such investments can better manage

       6      mental-health care so those in need remain active

       7      and healthy persons in the community, that is what

       8      we all want to achieve.

       9             Those individuals most at risk of emergency

      10      room visits and hospitalizations must have competent

      11      mental-health-care treatment available to them in

      12      the community now more than ever.

      13             Unlike a system that had the ability to refer

      14      a serious mental illness that is occurring in an

      15      individual to inpatient services, that option will

      16      be limited, based on the Governor's plan to limit

      17      access to inpatient services.

      18             Therefore, it is absolutely imperative that

      19      the expert professionals who presently provide such

      20      care in facilities must also be available in the

      21      community.

      22             State-provided services are necessary; they

      23      are crucial.

      24             We seek your help during this transition, to

      25      make sure we are included in the ongoing process of







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       1      development and implementation of the plans as these

       2      services are transitioned into the community.

       3             It is so important that we work together and

       4      utilize all of the expertise available to us, which

       5      includes my members, in forging a plan that protects

       6      the patients, serves the needs of our communities,

       7      and continues the high-quality of care provided by

       8      mental-health professionals whose expertise,

       9      knowledge, and dedication is invaluable.

      10             In an effort to suspend certain passage of

      11      legislation that would have placed a moratorium on

      12      facility closures, the Governor agreed, with the

      13      Senate and the Assembly, to a number of conditions,

      14      including the formation of a workgroup, with union

      15      representatives, to put together a long-term plan on

      16      how we will provide mental-health and

      17      developmental-disability services in the future.

      18             Although PEF did appoint representatives who

      19      served on the Regional Centers of Excellence

      20      committees, to date, I am sorry to report to you, we

      21      have not been included in any such workgroup; nor,

      22      have we gotten any kind of call back from the

      23      Governor's staff about this.

      24             And I must also say to you, that after

      25      Primary Day, I spoke personally with the Governor,







                                                                   146
       1      who did not seem to be aware that this workgroup was

       2      to be formed, and, did not speak very positively

       3      about whether or not he would ensure that we would

       4      be included.

       5             I know this is a strong statement, but it's a

       6      truthful statement.

       7             And I'm telling you, because, when you put

       8      your reputations on the line, to form an agreement,

       9      I'm sure that you want to make sure that the

      10      agreement that you entered into is going to be

      11      followed through with.

      12             And, so, I need you to know what has not

      13      happened.

      14             And we need to be wary that we are going into

      15      another budget session, and after election day,

      16      maybe we will continue this year's legislative

      17      session, and you need to be aware that what was

      18      promised to you, has not happened.

      19             Again, I want though thank you for your

      20      leadership about requiring a detailed plan for the

      21      savings from the closing of inpatient psychiatric

      22      facilities, that they would be reinvested into

      23      community-base mental-health-care services prior to

      24      the commencement of the closing of these facilities

      25      is absolutely crucial to ensure not only that the







                                                                   147
       1      necessary care is provided, but is provided by

       2      experts.

       3             This is crucial, because the inpatient

       4      mental-health-care-facility closures have

       5      historically led to a deplorable lack of

       6      mental-health-care services, homelessness, suicides,

       7      crimes, incarceration, of people living with mental

       8      illness.

       9             In addition, too many individuals with mental

      10      illness, having no place to go, fall victims

      11      themselves to violent crimes, and many are unable to

      12      manage chronic-health illnesses, such as asthma and

      13      diabetes, which result in unnecessary

      14      hospitalizations.

      15             As I mentioned, recently, OMH has delivered

      16      additional funding for community-based

      17      mental-health-care services throughout the state.

      18             And, as we continue to review these

      19      reinvestments, it is important to determine which,

      20      if any, of these services can deliver the necessary

      21      care and support that patients would otherwise need,

      22      and to receive, as they transition from psychiatric

      23      facilities to the community.

      24             We must be a major stakeholder in the

      25      process, moving forward.  We have the experience and







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       1      expertise in the delivery of mental-health-care

       2      services that must, must, must be included in any

       3      plan.

       4             Our members know their patients, they know

       5      the mental illness they're living with, they know

       6      what the best practices are in the various settings,

       7      and are always developing informed and creative

       8      methods in providing quality care to our patients.

       9             While there have been indications that PEF

      10      members and other public employes will eventually be

      11      shifted to community-based treatment services, along

      12      with the patients, no details of this process have

      13      yet to be provided.

      14             We stand by our earlier statements, that

      15      closing inpatient psychiatric facilities will result

      16      in a multitude of problems for patients, and, will

      17      have a negative economic effect on the communities

      18      these facilities serve.

      19             We fear dangerous patients will fall through

      20      the cracks, many of whom will become victims of

      21      violence, while others may harm others.

      22             With so many mental illness in jails and

      23      prison, we remain worried that New York will follow

      24      a similar path witnessed in other states that close

      25      too many state psychiatric inpatient facilities, as







                                                                   149
       1      reported in the Treatment Advocacy Center report

       2      released last April.

       3             PEF represents nearly 7,000 OMH employees.

       4      They are invested in the communities, and possess

       5      the clinical expertise that provides an important

       6      piece of the safety net for New York's most

       7      vulnerable citizens.

       8             Please, please, help us to ensure that these

       9      critical services for people living with mental

      10      illness are maintained.

      11             Thank you so very much for your time, and

      12      thank you for the work that you do.

      13                  [Applause.]

      14             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you, Susan.

      15             We look forward to working with you in the

      16      upcoming legislative session.

      17             SUSAN KENT:  Thank you.

      18             And I wish you both very well.

      19             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  I'll start making some

      20      calls tomorrow.

      21             SUSAN KENT:  Thank you.  Thank you, both.

      22             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  Maybe we'll find out

      23      what's happening.

      24             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  So we have, our last

      25      speaker, is Diana Siegel, who is representing







                                                                   150
       1      NAMI Familya.

       2             DIANA SIEGEL:  After hearing Susan Kent, who

       3      I had never met, I am a member of a different union,

       4      but you make me proud to be a union member.

       5             And Susan has described the condition so well

       6      in Rockland County.

       7             I did put up two poster-boards there, with

       8      articles from local newspapers, "New York Times,"

       9      et cetera, written by people who are very concerned

      10      with the dire situation of people with mental

      11      illness, in the country, in our state, and, in our

      12      county.

      13             I represent NAMI of Rockland.

      14             We are an organization, largely voluntary,

      15      that offers support, education, and advocacy for

      16      people with mental illness.

      17             And we are so grateful to you,

      18      Senator Carlucci, and to you, Representative Jaffee,

      19      for taking so great an interest in our community.

      20             Particularly, we are in the process of

      21      receiving a grant that will enable us to expand our

      22      services to people with mental illness and their

      23      families in our community.

      24             There are some specific needs which have been

      25      generally addressed, but I will try to point them







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       1      out, with some emphasis; and that is:

       2             We desperately need a central place of access

       3      for evaluation and reform, since the disillusion of

       4      the Pomona Complex.

       5             Nyack Hospital has a different kind of

       6      program, different kind of emphasis.

       7             And, at present, there is no central place

       8      where people in crisis can go when they need help.

       9             NAMI has a hotline.  We are, very often, the

      10      first point of contact.

      11             We have services within our voluntary

      12      organization that provides education to families.

      13             But, there must be a place that people are

      14      aware of, that people know they can go to, when they

      15      need help.

      16             There was a partial hospitalization program

      17      which was a wonderful facility up at Pomona.  It was

      18      one of the first programs that was closed.

      19             Because, when people who have been

      20      hospitalized return to the community, they are not

      21      ready to access what the community has to offer.

      22      They need supportive help to transition.

      23             And that partial-hospitalization program,

      24      which I know of personally, provided that help.

      25             So, I would like you to consider that kind of







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       1      a facility.

       2             We also need mobile crisis 24/7.

       3             So if you would, please, consider that.

       4             In the disillusion of Pomona, organizations,

       5      the Mental Health Association, and Jawonio, have

       6      picked up services, largely, for people who are

       7      ready to move into the community.

       8             But, people with, you've heard the term

       9      today, "persistent, serious mental illness," have

      10      been cut out.  We used to have day-treatment

      11      centers, a place where someone could get up to go.

      12             They have been disparaged, but they provided

      13      a service, where you meet people, where you get

      14      support from professionals, where there's a place to

      15      eat and socialize, rather than hanging around in

      16      front of a television set at home.

      17             So please consider restoring places for

      18      people with persistent, serious mental illness to

      19      go.

      20             We are appreciative of the current

      21      mental-health alternatives for incarceration.

      22             Please expand it, continue it.  Don't let it

      23      go.

      24             It's so important, as you heard from that

      25      excellent panel today.







                                                                   153
       1             CIT training, we need that.

       2             We need more children's services.

       3             And I thank you.

       4             I won't keep you any longer.

       5             You have been wonderful to us, and we are so

       6      appreciative.

       7             Thank you.

       8             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you very much.

       9             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  I have just one

      10      question, regarding the children's services.

      11             Specifically, you're discussing a site where

      12      families could bring children to be with each other.

      13             What kind of service?

      14      Mental-health-specific?  Mental-health

      15      psychologists?

      16             What --

      17             DIANA SIEGEL:  This kind of information

      18      I have received from the person who does our

      19      family-basics program.

      20             When the families finish, it's a six-week

      21      program, where we help to train families to deal

      22      with children and adolescents with mental illness.

      23             And, we have been told by Ann Arias (ph.),

      24      who runs this program, that after the program's

      25      over, there's no place to take the children.







                                                                   154
       1             There just aren't -- psychiatrists and

       2      psychologists in the county do not accept Medicaid

       3      or Medicare.  Some don't even accept insurance.  You

       4      need to, you know, pay, pay, pay, cash.

       5             So I would say, all of the above, yes.

       6             We need places for the children to go, where

       7      there are professionals, where they can receive

       8      services.  We need professionals who will accept

       9      Medicare and Medicaid.

      10             Yes.

      11             Thank you very much.

      12             SENATOR CARLUCCI:  Thank you.

      13             Well, we really just want to thank everyone

      14      for coming here today; for sharing your stories,

      15      your experiences.

      16             If there is additional information you would

      17      like to provide to us, we'll accept written

      18      testimonies so we have it on the record.

      19             This is extremely important for us, to make

      20      sure that this dialogue is had, that we can share

      21      these stories with our colleagues in the

      22      Legislature, and make sure that these issues are

      23      being addressed.

      24             So we covered a wide range today.

      25             And I really, again, want to thank all of you







                                                                   155
       1      for the work that you're doing.  For standing up,

       2      and sharing your experiences, your troubles that

       3      you've have had, the problems you've encountered,

       4      but ideas that you have for future on how to fix

       5      them.

       6             So, thank you so much for being with us

       7      today.

       8             And, with that, our Committee meeting is

       9      adjourned.

      10             Thank you.

      11             ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE:  Thank you.

      12

      13                  (Whereupon, at approximately 1:40 p.m.,

      14        the public hearing held before the New York State

      15        Senate Standing Committee on Mental Health and

      16        Developmental Disabilities concluded, and

      17        adjourned.)

      18

      19                            ---oOo---

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25