Regular Session - January 26, 1993

                                                                  304

         1

         2

         3

         4

         5

         6

         7

         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                       January 26, 1993

        10                         3:18 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                              305

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  If you will please

         4       find your seats.

         5                      If you will rise with me for the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (The assemblage repeated the

         8       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                      Today we have the Reverend Peter

        10       G. Young, pastor of Blessed Sacrament Church in

        11       Bolton Landing, to give us the opening prayer.

        12                      Father Young.

        13                      REVEREND PETER G. YOUNG:  Let us

        14       pray.

        15                      Dear God, as the sun increases

        16       its warmth and the budget discussions are

        17       prioritized, we call upon You to guide our

        18       legislators in this Senate chamber to wisdom and

        19       continuing dedication.  The challenges this year

        20       are numerous and we ask You for the blessing

        21       that will give them the energy and the health to

        22       again be important decision-makers in this

        23       state.  We ask You this now and forevermore.











                                                              306

         1       Amen.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Thank

         3       you, Father.

         4                      The Secretary will begin by

         5       reading the Journal.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

         7       Monday, January 25th.  The Senate met pursuant

         8       to adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon

         9       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        10       Journal of Friday, January 22nd, was read and

        11       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hearing

        13       no objection, the Journal will stand approved as

        14       read.

        15                      The order of business:

        16       Presentation of petitions.

        17                      Messages from the Assembly.

        18                      Messages from the Governor.

        19                      Reports of standing committees.

        20                      Reports of select committees.

        21                      Communications and reports from

        22       state officers.

        23                      Motions and resolutions.  Do we











                                                              307

         1       have any?

         2                      Senator Present, we have a

         3       quorum, and we're ready for the calendar.

         4       What's your pleasure?

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       let's adopt the Senate Resolution Calendar.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

         8       right. The Secretary will read the -- all in

         9       favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,

        10       please say aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Those opposed nay.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        14                      (There was no other response.)

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       Resolution Calendar is adopted.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yeah.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Could you just

        21       hold 229 starred; Senator Ohrenstein would like

        22       to be heard on it?  It's his own.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  We'll











                                                              308

         1       come back to that.  The Resolution Calendar has

         2       already been adopted, but Senator Ohrenstein

         3       will be speaking to Resolution Number 229.  Is

         4       that all right?

         5                      Are there any motions on the

         6       floor or anything?

         7                      Senator Present.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         9       let's take up the non-controversial.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        11       Non-controversial.  The Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 4,

        13       Calendar Number 4, by Senator Kuhl.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Laid

        16       aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       12, by Senator Halperin, Senate Bill Number 106,

        19       an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        20       increasing the penalties for loitering.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                              309

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       19, by Senator Holland -

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay aside for

        11       Senator Solomon.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        13       that aside for Senator Solomon.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       20, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 239, an

        16       act to amend the Civil Rights Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                              310

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       21, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 233, an

         6       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       22, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 247,

        19       an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay aside, please.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        22       that bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                              311

         1       23, by Senator Volker.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Star it?  Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Laid

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       24, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 406,

         8       an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      Senator Present.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        21       let's stand at ease for a few minutes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  We'll

        23       stand at ease.











                                                              312

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Can you hit the

         5       gavel.  We're back in action.  Call up Calendar

         6       Number 19.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       Secretary will read Calendar Number 19.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       19, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 211,

        11       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Solomon,

        13       you want to do anything?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        15       Solomon.

        16                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes, on 19, can

        17       I have an explanation, please?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Explanation has been asked for.  Senator

        20       Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, as you

        22       know, this is a bill that would allow auxiliary

        23       police to use mace.  Senator, as you know, this











                                                              313

         1       is a bill that would allow auxiliary police to

         2       use mace in a defense -- as a defensive weapon,

         3       only if it was justified in a deadly force

         4       situation, and if allowed by the local chief of

         5       police or commissioner of police and with proper

         6       training.

         7                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator Holland

         8       yield?

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, the

        11       only thing that confuses me about this bill is,

        12       I have an understanding that a number of the

        13       organized police departments around the country

        14       have been against the use of mace by citizens in

        15       many instances, and I'd like to know whether or

        16       not they're supporting or opposing this bill or

        17       have taken any position on this bill.

        18                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  The Police

        19       Conference, we have a verbal communication from

        20       the police conference that they are opposed but

        21       that's not --  not written.

        22                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Have you

        23       contacted the New York City PBA?











                                                              314

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  The city of New

         2       York came into the office and said that they

         3       would support the bill if we allowed cities with

         4       populations of over a million people to be

         5       deleted from the bill, but we chose not to do

         6       that.  We feel it should be a statewide bill,

         7       rather than a two-state bill again.

         8                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  And the New

         9       York City hasn't?

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No, it was just

        11       the representative of the city of New York, not

        12       the PBA.

        13                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  All right.

        14       Thank you, Senator. On the bill.

        15                      I just think there's been some

        16       confusion in terms of some of the local police

        17       agencies and the police unions as to whether

        18       they support this bill or not.  I personally am

        19       not opposed, in fact, to the change in the law

        20       in this state on mace because I think coming

        21       from the city of New York, a number of women, if

        22       you've read some recent articles in the New York

        23       Times in relation to car-jackings have been











                                                              315

         1       carrying small bottles of mace on their key

         2       chains.  Whether or not it would be effective

         3       against an attack is questionable.

         4                      But I think the issue of mace has

         5       to be reviewed not as it just pertains to

         6       auxiliary police officers, but I think the issue

         7       of mace within this state should be reviewed

         8       completely, and that's why I was asking the

         9       questions regarding the particular police unions

        10       in this -- on this particular piece of

        11       legislation, and that's why I really oppose

        12       this.

        13                      I think mace should really be

        14       legalized so it could be available throughout

        15       the entire state, including the city of New

        16       York, to be used in defense of individuals, not

        17       just police officers, in this situation.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  We had this

        22       bill last year, and it passed with only two

        23       negatives, Senator Montgomery and Senator











                                                              316

         1       Solomon, and, Senator Solomon, I'm glad you

         2       brought it up again, and I've been reading this

         3       and I'm really saying that you've changed my

         4       mind.

         5                      Senator Holland says that the

         6       City said it would not oppose it or would

         7       support it if you took them out. I guess that's

         8       a round-about way of saying that they oppose it

         9       the way it is, and the City points out, and in

        10       their memo they use this language, which I think

        11       is really very very significant:

        12                      They're talking about auxiliary

        13       police, and it says they're the eyes and ears of

        14       the department by observing and reporting crimes

        15       and conditions warranting police action.  They

        16       do not initiate arrests and, in fact, are

        17       instructed to avoid personal confrontations

        18       whenever possible, because the city of New York

        19       could not indemnify them for their actions taken

        20       outside the, quote, "drill", end quote,

        21       concept.

        22                      Senator Holland, I don't know how

        23       you teach someone on the auxiliary police











                                                              317

         1       department that they're the eyes and the ears

         2       and they shouldn't have confrontations and then

         3       you start little by little to arm them and you

         4       give them mace.  If the police department wants

         5       to have auxiliary police and they want to set it

         6       up with certain limitations, I don't think it's

         7       for us to tell them how to change the way the

         8       auxiliary police department operates.

         9                      If your bill permitted, for

        10       example, the various police departments to

        11       authorize it themselves, then I probably

        12       wouldn't care, because if your locality wanted

        13       to do it, I don't think it would be offensive to

        14       me.  But by mandating it the way I read this, it

        15       says upon local authorization and appropriate

        16       instruction and whatever.  All right, you've

        17       got -- you've got that in there.

        18                      But the point -- the point is

        19       when you're dealing with the City, you run into

        20       a little bit of a different problem, because in

        21       the City with the numbers involved, it tends to

        22       get out of hand. The auxiliary, in other words

        23       now, we're -- we have the auxiliary petition. I











                                                              318

         1       don't see any of that in here.  I don't see any

         2       of that, and it seems to me that if the City has

         3       set up this program with its own limitations on

         4       it, that it's not for us to change it.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, it's

         6        -- this is not a mandate.  It's up to the

         7       individual police departments to allow it.  It's

         8       only to be used as a defensive weapon.  There

         9       will be education for the auxiliary policemen

        10       before they go out there and only to be used in

        11       a deadly force situation.  I don't see where any

        12       of the arguments you gave fits in here.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      Senator Volker.

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        17       very quickly, and this -- this bill, I think,

        18       points up the kind of almost bizarre nature of

        19       the situation we're in with certain -- certain

        20       of our so-called defense weapons.

        21                      As Senator Padavan points out to

        22       me, every mailman in New York State has a form

        23       of mace.  Probably it's estimated 20 to 25











                                                              319

         1       percent of the people in some of the urban areas

         2       are carrying mace, even though it's technically

         3       illegal.  We've been passing bills in this house

         4       for several years trying to make mace legal in

         5       part because half the population of the state of

         6       New York is carrying mace.

         7                      I would like to point out also

         8       that auxiliary police already are authorized to

         9       use batons, which I think probably is more of

        10       potentially an offensive weapon than mace.  The

        11       problem here is, and the reason I can tell you

        12       why the police conferences and the police are

        13       opposed to this, they're really not opposed to

        14       it in principle.  Their problem is that across

        15       this state, some of the localities that have

        16       been pinched for cash are beginning to try to

        17       use auxiliary police in place of police

        18       officers.  That's a bad idea and a tough

        19       problem, but the auxiliary police will say to

        20       you, that's why what they're really asking for

        21       is something like mace, which is really a

        22       defensive -- a defensive weapon and not really

        23       a-- they're not asking for guns or anything of











                                                              320

         1       that nature.

         2                      The police, I think, simply are

         3       opposed just on the basis that at this point

         4       they just don't want to give anything to the

         5       auxiliary police.  A strange thing about the New

         6       York City memo is, if you read it, it sort of

         7       says that, yeah, we realize we don't have to do

         8       it but we'd just as soon not have legislation

         9       authorizing us to do it if we decide not to, and

        10       the truth is this bill doesn't say they have to

        11       do it and, if they decide to do it, it gives

        12       them even more structure in law to allow them to

        13       make determinations as to what should be done.

        14                      So I just think it's kind of a -

        15       there's another issue involved here to say that

        16       most of the people out there in the street or a

        17       lot of them are using these things illegally, so

        18       that now we don't want to make it legal for

        19       police people who are connected with police to

        20       carry them and, by the way, I hesitate to tell

        21       you this, but I know a lot of auxiliary police

        22       are carrying it right now and don't let anybody

        23       kid you, because if everybody else is carrying











                                                              321

         1       it, why shouldn't they carry it?  And what we're

         2       really trying to do here is make it legal and

         3       give them some training.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Jones.

         6                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes, I would just

         7       like to -- I am going to vote against this bill

         8       and I would have to concur, I have spoken to the

         9       police in my area, and I would concur with what

        10       Senator Volker said.  He's correct, it is a

        11       bigger issue and in some of the towns I

        12       represent, that's exactly what's happening:  For

        13       budget-cutting purposes, they're using auxiliary

        14       police, and I think the issue is that the

        15       police, and rightfully so in my opinion, feel as

        16       though they put in many, many hours and effort

        17       into training and that they're not willing to

        18       give up things that are there.

        19                      I agree also with my colleague

        20       who said we should investigate the whole mace

        21       thing over and apart from this because as a

        22       woman, I would like to carry it, but I will vote

        23       no because I think our police are deserving of











                                                              322

         1       our support on this issue.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         8       the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 19 are Senators

        12       Dollinger, Espada, Galiber, Gold, Jones,

        13       Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato, Smith,

        14       and Solomon.  Ayes 39 --  also Senator

        15       Oppenheimer.  Ayes 38, nays 12.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Present.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we take up

        20       Calendar 22 and follow it by Calendar 23.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Secretary will call up Calendar Number 22.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                              323

         1       22, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 247,

         2       an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         6       this -- the bill has passed this house on

         7       several occasions, and I'm -- I don't know, I am

         8       hopeful that we can do something with it in the

         9       Assembly.  It's my own personal feeling that the

        10       reason it hasn't passed is not because it has

        11       any substantial effect on the rights of anybody

        12       but because the -- in fact, I'm told this by

        13       some of the Assembly people, that they -- in

        14       principle, they have concern about passing a

        15       bill such as this to get rid of some of the

        16       technicalities that have been used in criminal

        17       proceedings.

        18                      What happened here was that a

        19       convicted rapist, the prime issue involved here,

        20       a fellow by the name of Johnson, in a case in

        21       Buffalo, signed a waiver of immunity.  There's

        22       no question of that.  He admits that.  He admits

        23       that he intended to do that and was convicted.











                                                              324

         1       The case -- the conviction was thrown out

         2       because, under the statute, the statute says

         3       that the waiver of immunity must occur in the

         4       presence of the grand jury.  The assistant D.A.

         5       who handled this basically admitted that he

         6       had -- probably that the grand jury was not

         7       immediately present at the time of the signing

         8       of the waiver.  The attorneys, the defense

         9       attorney, everybody admitted it and virtually

        10       everybody admits that that whole concept of

        11       waiver of immunity in today's climate where

        12       people are tromping in and out of the grand jury

        13       room, really doesn't mean very much to start

        14       with.

        15                      The real issue always has been

        16       the issue of whether the waiver of immunity was

        17       done voluntarily and knowingly, and that is

        18       still the law and would still remain the law

        19       once this bill was passed.  All this bill would

        20       change would be -- is that it wouldn't necessar

        21       ily have to be actually in the presence of the

        22       grand jury itself which really means nothing

        23       because the grand jury doesn't know what's going











                                                              325

         1       on for the most part anyway, and the issue is

         2       really the signing of the waiver of immunity.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         4       Gold.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      Mr. President, this is another

         8       bill we've had before.  Last year Senators

         9       Connor, myself, and Senator Markowitz and

        10       Mendez, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer,

        11       Smith, and Solomon voted in the negative.

        12                      The problem with the bill is

        13       basically there was one case one time when an

        14       assistant D.A. made a mistake and you,

        15       therefore, want to change the law and affect

        16       people's rights in a substantial way because of

        17       one case; and you don't do that.

        18                      I gave an example before on

        19       this.  Someone who built a golf course played

        20       with their friends and every time they saw where

        21       their friend hit a ball, the next time they

        22       played the guy put a sand trap there.

        23                      Well, you can't set up the penal











                                                              326

         1       code and the criminal laws for one case every

         2       time there's a difference.  Prosecutors in this

         3       state are very well trained, and young

         4       prosecutors coming into the office should be

         5       well trained, and you don't put an assistant

         6       district attorney in charge of a grand jury

         7       unless he knows what's happening, and the fact

         8       is that, since Senator Volker brought this bill

         9       to us, I don't know whether there's been any

        10       other cases, but I haven't heard about them.  He

        11       says there are.

        12                      The bottom line is that, when

        13       someone waives immunity in this country, that is

        14       heavy stuff, and for Senator Volker to say it's

        15       just a formality the way you do it, I don't

        16       think is fair. Our system could be a lot simpler

        17       if we didn't care so much about the rights of

        18       innocent people and the rights of accuseds and,

        19       yes, you don't walk in guilty like you do in

        20       other countries.  You walk in innocent, and they

        21       have to prove you guilty and you can waive

        22       immunity.  You can.  You have do it properly,

        23       but, if you don't do it properly, the law











                                                              327

         1       protects you, and to give away that protection

         2       because of one case as horrible as it may be,

         3       makes no sense.

         4                      So I would urge everyone to

         5       defeat this.  The grand jury works well.  The

         6       prosecutors that run it work well and because

         7       one prosecutor made a mistake is the wrong

         8       reason, I think, to change the law.

         9                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Volker.

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        13       Senator Gold, I know, has been in a grand jury

        14       room.  I have been in a grand jury room too.

        15       There have been other cases, by the way, that

        16       involved this issue, but for the most part

        17       nobody pays any attention to it because it

        18       really is a technicality that has clearly out

        19       lived its usefulness, virtually everyone

        20       agrees.

        21                      The only people that, frankly,

        22       don't seem to agree, because if you think about

        23       it, the first thing a prosecutor has to do is











                                                              328

         1       ask the question, Did you sign an immunity? Was

         2       it knowingly, and so forth, to go through the

         3       process.  The fact of whether the grand jury saw

         4       you sign it or not really makes no difference

         5       and, in fact, if the prosecutor doesn't make it

         6       clear that there's the immunity, then you got

         7       the real problem and if it's not knowing and if

         8       it's not clearly -- clearly done.

         9                      The truth is, this is not the

        10       only case, although it's been pointed out to a

        11       number of us who have looked at this issue that

        12       this probably happens a lot because assistant

        13       district attorneys really, when you've got

        14       people coming in and out on a regular basis, the

        15       question is did the grand jury ever see it any

        16       way, and from what I understand, it's much more

        17       prevalent in New York City than it would be in

        18       upstate New York.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        20       Will the Senator yield to a question?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Volker, will you yield?

        23                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.











                                                              329

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, when this

         2       happened up in your area, there was a lot of

         3       press on it, wasn't there?

         4                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Quite a bit,

         5       right.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD: Lot of public

         7       outrage.

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Right.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Don't you think,

        10       if this was happening all over the state, that

        11       we would see this then in the papers, if it was

        12       happening in Utica and in Albany?  If it was

        13       happening every day, isn't it obvious we'd see

        14       some of it in the papers?

        15                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I never said it

        16       was happening every day.  For the most part,

        17       defense attorneys and prosecuting attorneys

        18       don't pay any attention to this.  But the

        19       possibility of an outrageous situation like this

        20       happening, and then we are told where there are

        21       some other incidents where appeals have been

        22       made based on this sort of happening, the

        23       possibility when you think of it, when there is











                                                              330

         1       no significant reason for doing this in the kind

         2       of era that we're in, makes no sense and we

         3       should just get rid of it.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      Oh, Senator Halperin.

         8                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Yes.  Would

         9       Senator Volker yield to a question, please?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I'm

        11       confident he will.

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Sure.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        14       Volker.

        15                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Under your

        16       legislation, how would the issue of whether or

        17       not a waiver of immunity had been signed be

        18       resolved? What would be -- who would determine

        19       it; which court would determine it and what

        20       would be the standard of proof?

        21                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Well, that

        22       wouldn't change at all, Senator.  You know how

        23       it's done now.  You have -- in fact, one of the











                                                              331

         1       things in the grand jury minutes has to be the

         2       declaration and a statement from the -- the

         3       person, the defendant himself, that he did sign

         4       a -- a waiver of immunity and signed it

         5       knowingly, and so forth.  So that wouldn't

         6       change, and that issue -- the issue, this issue,

         7       came up on appeal after the trial was over with

         8       when the attorney went back and said, Wait a

         9       minute, you know.  Someone said the assistant

        10       district attorney probably could have said, "Oh,

        11       well, I think I did it before the -- right

        12       before the grand jury," but in whatever the

        13       circumstances were, he was very candid and said,

        14       "No, I guess I probably didn't."

        15                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  So, in other

        16       words, before the witness would testify, there

        17       would have to be entered onto -- it would have

        18       to be an acknowledgement that would be entered

        19       onto the record that, in fact, he was waiving -

        20       he or she was waiving immunity.

        21                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Sure.

        22                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  And that they

        23       had signed something and that was his signature.











                                                              332

         1       That's what would have to be done?

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Oh, sure,

         3       certainly.

         4                      SENATOR HALPERIN: So the only

         5       issue would be whether the actual signing of

         6       that document occurred while the grand jury was

         7       watching or was not watching.

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Exactly.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It's my

        15       understanding, Senator, that this legislation

        16       does note affect the constitutional test of the

        17       waiver of immunity, that the court would still

        18       determine whether it was freely and voluntarily

        19       given.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And the court

        22       would then decide whether it's a factor along

        23       with the other matters that the court would











                                                              333

         1       review in determining how it was granted.

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  If there was

         3       some question whether it was acknowledged and it

         4       was done properly, it would seem to be an issue

         5       for the court.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, it

         7       would certainly seem to me, Mr. President, that

         8       if it was done in a district attorney's office

         9       or on a cell block or some place, that would be

        10       a factor to be considered by the court in

        11       determining whether it was knowingly and

        12       willingly granted.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Certainly.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And I think

        15       that that has to be understood in the context of

        16       the Senator's proposal.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        21       November.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                              334

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         3       the negative on Calendar Number 22 are Senators

         4       Connor, Espada, Galiber, Gold, Markowitz,

         5       Mendez, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Santiago, Smith,

         6       and Solomon.  Ayes 42, nays 11.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       23, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 364,

        11       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        13       Explanation.

        14                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Now that we got

        15       through the previous legislation, this one is

        16       much, much simpler.

        17                      All this bill would do, it would

        18       add pornography to -- as a -- to the definitions

        19       of the criminal or to those areas that are in

        20       volved in the Organized Crime Control Act.  In

        21       other words, we would include the crime of por

        22       nography under RICO, which is the racketeering

        23       act that we passed some years ago, and it's been











                                                              335

         1       used very successfully against organized crime

         2       throughout this state.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Gold.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  I think last year

         7       we set the record for the shortest debate in

         8       this area and maybe we can keep it that way.

         9       Senator Babbush and myself and Senator Galiber

        10       and Montgomery voted in the negative.

        11                      Everybody's against organized

        12       crime; we're all against pornography.  The only

        13       issue is whether or not in handling pornography

        14       we are going to take that and also put it under

        15       the organized crime statute. If this bill does

        16       not pass, pornography is still a crime in the

        17       state of New York.  It doesn't do anything in

        18       that regard, and it's just a question of

        19       philosophy.

        20                      Last section.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This











                                                              336

         1       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

         2       November.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 23 are Senators

         8       Connor, Espada, Galiber, Gold and Montgomery.

         9       Ayes 50, nays 5.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        15       Oppenheimer.

        16                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'd like

        17       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        18       on Calendar Number 22, please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       Oppenheimer will be in the negative on Calendar

        21       Number 22.

        22                      Senator Holland.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.











                                                              337

         1       President, on page 4, I offer the following

         2       amendments to my bill, Calendar Number 17,

         3       Senate Print Number 205, and ask that said bill

         4       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         6       Amendments are received.  The bill will retain

         7       its place.

         8                      Senator Present.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I believe

        10       Senator Galiber has a resolution which I wish

        11       you would entertain at this time.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Galiber.

        14                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes.  Thank

        15       you, Mr. President.

        16                      I have a resolution, I believe,

        17       that's at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It is.

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President,

        20       under normal circumstances, time is an important

        21       factor, but we have lost in this great country

        22       of ours one of the heroes of our nation.

        23       Therefore, I would ask that you read the











                                                              338

         1       resolution in toto of Thurgood Marshall, Justice

         2       of the Supreme Court of the United States.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       Secretary would read the resolution for Justice

         5       Marshall.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

         7       Resolution, by Senator Galiber, commemorating

         8       the life and career of the Honorable Thurgood

         9       Marshall, Justice of the Supreme Court, and

        10       expressing sincerest sorrow upon the occasion of

        11       his death.

        12                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of this

        13       legislative body that the common and shared

        14       responsibility of governance demands an

        15       irrevocable commitment to the preservation and

        16       enhancement of human dignity;

        17                      There is no substitute, no

        18       alternative to the full implementation of that

        19       prerogative; on the contrary, the safe, sure and

        20       positive definition of civil liberties dictates

        21       that the discretionary power inherent in govern

        22       ance be weighted in favor of that commitment;

        23                      The very viability of democratic











                                                              339

         1       procedure, the most characteristic attribute of

         2       its sovereignty, remains an unswerving commit

         3       ment to the pervasive and equitable extension of

         4       civil liberties;

         5                      It is the intent of this

         6       assembled body to address the significance of

         7       the life and career of the Honorable Thurgood

         8       Marshall, Justice of the Supreme Court;

         9                      The life and career of Justice

        10       Thurgood Marshall represents an unyielding

        11       commitment to the primacy of law, to those

        12       prerogatives of justice and human dignity so

        13       paradigmatic of our American manner;

        14                      Justice Marshall, the first

        15       African-American ever to serve on the nation's

        16       highest court and the great grandson of a slave,

        17       rose to a position of greatness by advocating

        18       civil rights that had long been wrongfully

        19       denied African-Americans;

        20                      Having grown up in a society

        21       pervaded by racism, he had the courage to seek

        22       to create a radically different world where the

        23       ideals of brotherhood and equality governed our











                                                              340

         1       law;

         2                      Justice Marshall was the foremost

         3       champion of the rights of all persons, regard

         4       less of race or gender, to equal opportunity and

         5       equal justice; he understood that our Constitu

         6       tion had little meaning unless its protections

         7       are extended to all citizens;

         8                      Justice Marshall was appointed to

         9       the court in 1967 by President Lyndon B. Johnson

        10       after serving as a federal appeals court judge

        11       and as the Johnson administration solicitor

        12       general in charge of arguing cases before the

        13       high court;

        14                      Justice Marshall is the legal

        15       architect of civil rights strategy pressing his

        16       beliefs in equality for women, racial and

        17       political minorities; his vision of liberty was

        18       fixed and encompassed all people; his faith in

        19       the Constitution led him to be a stalwart

        20       defender of free speech, privacy and the rights

        21       of the accused;

        22                      Justice Marshall designed the

        23       brilliant legal strategy that outlawed racial











                                                              341

         1       separation and successfully argued 29 out of 32

         2       cases before the United States Supreme Court,

         3       including Brown v. Board of Education, the

         4       historic case removing the legal foundations

         5       from the doctrine of segregation;

         6                      For nearly a quarter of a century

         7       before his government service began, Thurgood

         8       Marshall was the legal director of the National

         9       Association for the Advancement of Colored

        10       People and was a pioneering lawyer who became

        11       America's most prominent civil rights attorney;

        12                      Through his sustained and long

        13       standing commitment to the ideals and principles

        14       upon which this nation was first founded, United

        15       States Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall

        16       did so thoroughly advance that spirit of united

        17       purpose and shared concern which is the unalter

        18       able manifestation of our American experience;

        19                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

        20       that this legislative body pause in its

        21       deliberation and commemorate the life and career

        22       of Thurgood Marshall, Justice of the Supreme

        23       Court, expressing, in turn, sincerest sorrow











                                                              342

         1       upon the occasion of his death, and lasting

         2       appreciation for his commitment and the changes

         3       wrought by his career and life; and

         4                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

         5       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be

         6       transmitted to Mrs. Thurgood (Suyat) Marshall

         7       and to Thurgood Marshall, Jr., and to John

         8       Marshall.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        10       resolution, Senator Galiber.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President,

        12       thank you for reading the resolution in toto.

        13                      There comes a time in this great

        14       country of ours which all of us have or most of

        15       us have a great deal of love for.  Every now and

        16       then, a giant steps forth in our nation, someone

        17       who commands, if you will, the recognition of a

        18       good American.

        19                      Justice Marshall is one of those

        20       persons.  He exemplifies what our system is all

        21       about, what the potential of our system really

        22       is, and Justice Marshall's life was not easy.

        23       He came from a town or a state of Maryland, and











                                                              343

         1       good stock came out of Maryland. There's the

         2       Mitchell family, who fought for civil rights,

         3       for issues of great concern.

         4                      There must be something in the

         5       water there that's lacking in other places,

         6       except one person.  That was a justice by the

         7       name of Taney, and some of you recall in your

         8       history books he was the one who suggested 110

         9       years prior to President Johnson designating

        10       Justice Marshall as the first black to the

        11       Supreme Court, he said 110 years prior to that,

        12       that blacks in America had no constitutional

        13       rights, they were not part of this great

        14       country.  So Maryland has not always been a

        15       consistent place for civil rights.

        16                      But a strong advocate of civil

        17       rights in Justice Marshall, and also Dr. Martin

        18       Luther King, I think, perhaps a quote at this

        19       time in history when next month we celebrate

        20       Black History Week, that we take in context the

        21       growth and the movement and what these great

        22       people have offered to this great nation of

        23       ours, and we've got to take it in the context.











                                                              344

         1       It's not enough for some to introduce a

         2       resolution on Dr. King or introduce a resolution

         3       to Thurgood Marshall unless built into their

         4       souls they have a commitment to this, that they

         5       understand that it came about at a time, these

         6       leaders of ours, when they were so sorely

         7       needed.

         8                      Bear with me a moment.  29 years

         9       after Dr. King died, and he came up at a time

        10       like Thurgood Marshall came up at a time when

        11       they experienced blacks not sitting in the front

        12       of the bus, that lynchings took place almost on

        13       a daily basis, that they hadn't -- could not sit

        14       down at the counters and eat, could not drive

        15       the buses, could not work the land, at a time

        16       like that.

        17                      In our lifetime, Thurgood

        18       Marshall experienced the same fate. He came up

        19       as a practicing attorney.  Father wanted him to

        20       be a dentist, and he said, I became a lawyer

        21       because my father insisted that I pay attention

        22       and argue every point and have an answer for

        23       every question that were asked of me.











                                                              345

         1                      He made application to a small

         2       college in Maryland, law school.  Turned down.

         3       And revenge is sweet on occasion.  Some of us

         4       don't practice revenge because that's bad, takes

         5       up too much time, and one of the first suits

         6       that he brought after passing the bar, he sued

         7       that law school and was successful in terms of

         8       them entering or allowing blacks to enter law

         9       school.

        10                      Both these great men, great

        11       Americans, came up at a time when it was not

        12       popular, if you will, to think in terms of being

        13       part of a system.  They came up at a time when

        14       we were concerned about the growth of blacks in

        15       America.  There were some of us who argued that

        16       the Constitution applied and Thurgood Marshall

        17       was -- Thurgood Marshall was committed to a

        18       Constitution that some of your forefathers had

        19       written and did not apply to blacks in this

        20       country.  He said it does apply, that when we

        21       say "we, the people" we really meant "we, the

        22       people" and when we talked of equal opportunity

        23       we're talking about equal opportunity for all,











                                                              346

         1       and when we talk about liberty and justice and

         2       fairness, we were talking about all the people.

         3       This is what this great Baltimore lawyer meant

         4       to us.

         5                      He was a giant too in his time

         6       and, interestingly, he was asked the question

         7       and it's all said in the resolution, he was

         8       asked a very simple question and he said,

         9       "Justice Marshall, what about your replacement?

        10       Would you want to see another black man on the

        11       Court of Appeals?"  And he gave a very short,

        12       cryptic and fair answer.  He said, "It doesn't

        13       make any difference except if that person be

        14       fair and just and," he said, "my father" -- and

        15       he quoted his father and grandfather quite often

        16        -- "he said that black snakes bite you; white

        17       snakes bite you.  Still dead."  And if we apply

        18       that notion to what we have now, it leaves

        19       something to be desired, in my best judgment.

        20                      Thurgood Marshall was chief

        21       counsel for the NAACP, U. S. Appeals Court, the

        22       nation's solicitor general, and the first black

        23       to serve with background and experience in











                                                              347

         1       racism in this country and civil rights and a

         2       number of other things that we have mentioned in

         3       the resolution.

         4                      Think about it, that here's a man

         5       who had to go into the south to fight cases and

         6       sit in caskets in a funeral home to avoid the Ku

         7       Klux Klan from getting at him, and all these bad

         8       and horrible experiences.  They called him

         9       "turkey" because he was poor and he was

        10       somewhat arrogant, and he was a handsome man and

        11       he spoke his mind, with peace of mind, rather,

        12       and we were so proud of him.

        13                      America should be proud of this

        14       man, because his work in civil rights, his work

        15       with women, his work with people in general has

        16       done so much to enhance this country in such a

        17       short period of time.  Can you imagine the

        18       progress that we have made in this country when

        19       we stop to consider in the 29 years of Dr. King

        20       and the short life of Martin -- of Thurgood

        21       Marshall, Justice of the Supreme Court.  Look at

        22       the growth in America during this short span of

        23       time.  Look at the accomplishments that have











                                                              348

         1       happened in this short span of time in this

         2       great nation of ours, with a lot of faults and a

         3       few cracks, but certainly a great, great, great,

         4       great country.

         5                      So I honor this man today as a

         6       great American, for someone who has given so

         7       much to us.  I'm honored personally because of

         8       the skin color, the skin color that I have worn

         9       for over some 60 years, but more important I am

        10       so proud that America had the opportunity to

        11       share in the life of this great man.

        12                      Marshall was the only black ever

        13       to serve on the nation's highest court.  Justice

        14       Marshall is one of the Titanics, if you will, of

        15       American law, and a great grandson of a slave.

        16       Justice Marshall rose to a position of greatness

        17       and by winning civil rights cases that had long

        18       been wrongfully denied African-Americans, and he

        19       grew up in a society pervaded by a racism, but

        20       he had the imagination and the courage to

        21       imagine a radically different world where the

        22       ideals of brotherhood and quality governance was

        23       the law of the land, and Justice Marshall was











                                                              349

         1       the foremost champion of the rights of

         2       minorities to equal opportunity and affirmative

         3       action that we hear so much about which has

         4       taken on another context in what he really

         5       meant.

         6                      He talked about justice, and he

         7       understood that our Constitution had little

         8       meaning unless its protections are extended to

         9       all American citizens, to all the indigents, to

        10       the death row inmates and those with politically

        11       unpopular views.  He was the only Supreme Court

        12       Justice to have represented a defendant accused

        13       of murder in the south.

        14                      So, Mr. Chairman, Mr. President,

        15       I ask that those who are here today and those

        16       who are desirous of joining with me as we

        17       celebrate a great American, the loss to America,

        18       the loss to a number of people, as we celebrate

        19       his death and recognize what he has offered to

        20       this great nation of ours in such a short span

        21       of time, that he has reversed America, that he

        22       has added to this great country.

        23                      He has given to us a different











                                                              350

         1       perspective about basic human rights, and we in

         2       this chamber argue from time to time whether

         3       we're getting too tough or whether we're giving

         4       up too much or whether we should go the extra

         5       mile or whether we should give someone an equal

         6       opportunity to participate.

         7                      Colleagues, we're not doing that

         8       bad in America.  We have a long, long way to go,

         9       but if you listen very carefully as we celebrate

        10       the death of Thurgood Marshall and as we

        11       celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday and

        12       as we celebrate Black History Week, we have made

        13       giant steps in the right direction.  A long way

        14       to go, no question about it.

        15                      So I'd ask that those who are

        16       desirous of doing so, join myself and Senator

        17       Waldon, who is co-sponsor, prime co-sponsor of

        18       this resolution, who could not be here today, to

        19       join us with this resolution.  But only join us,

        20       do not put your name on this resolution unless

        21       you feel a strong commitment to what this man

        22       represented. I would rather you not put your

        23       name on it if you do not have that kind of











                                                              351

         1       commitment.

         2                      Thank you for your time.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         4       Ohrenstein.

         5                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Mr.

         6       President, I'm very pleased to rise to second

         7       this resolution.

         8                      It's -- it's almost trite to say

         9       that America has lost an enormous asset.

        10       Thurgood Marshall became not just another

        11       Justice of the Supreme Court. Thurgood Marshall

        12       became an institution that represented so many

        13       things that were important to the country that

        14       it is very difficult to imagine this country

        15       without him.

        16                      He was one of those people you

        17       just relied on as being there and he was a -

        18       he put a stamp on a certain part of this country

        19       and the certain things which this country stood

        20       for, so you expected him to be there because he,

        21       in every day of his life and certainly every day

        22       of his public life, reiterated and underlined

        23       the things that he stood for and that he made











                                                              352

         1       important for the United States of America.

         2                      There's a very interesting

         3       observation one has to make about Thurgood

         4       Marshall's life and his antecedents. Thurgood

         5       Marshall was a revolutionary in every sense of

         6       the word.  He may not have fought a revolution

         7       at the point of a gun or at the point of a sword

         8       but he fought a revolution in words and in

         9       actions and in deeds.  He was at the cutting

        10       edge of the civil rights revolution in this

        11       country, and I don't think we should ever forget

        12       that at the time that Thurgood Marshall -

        13       Thurgood Marshall was active, it was, in fact,

        14       during the middle of a civil rights revolution

        15       in this country, because the changes that took

        16       place as a result of that period of time in the

        17        '50s and in the '60s, this country changed

        18       fundamentally and in a revolutionary way.

        19                      Our new President quoted

        20       President Jefferson in his inaugural address and

        21       indicated that President Jefferson was a

        22       revolutionary, because when you read Jefferson's

        23       writings and you read his concept of what a











                                                              353

         1       representative democracy is like, you understand

         2       that here was a man who believed with all of his

         3       heart and mind that this country, if it stood

         4       for anything, it stood for the ability to change

         5       and to learn and to adjust to new conditions and

         6       new circumstances that we are met with from time

         7       to time.

         8                      And I am not at all unabashed of

         9       ranking Thurgood Marshall with Thomas Jefferson,

        10       because just as Thomas Jefferson said that the

        11       tree of liberty had to be watered with blood

        12       every 20 years -- and that's what he said, so if

        13       you want to talk about a revolutionary, there

        14       was the revolutionary -- because not only did he

        15       participate in the American Revolution, he

        16       indicated that the American Revolution had to be

        17       a constant thing, ever repeated, ever reborn,

        18       and that's what Thurgood Marshall stood for.

        19                      He was at the front line of the

        20       civil rights revolution, and that was a real

        21       revolution.  It was one of those 20-year

        22       revolutions because that revolution was watered

        23       in blood, and maybe Thurgood Marshall was not











                                                              354

         1       out there drawing the blood, but he was there

         2       and without him the blood could neither be drawn

         3       nor spilled nor finally put to rest.

         4                      Most of us in my age group at

         5       least grew up with Thurgood Marshall as a

         6       symbol, both in his young manhood and his middle

         7       manhood and then finally in the great, reaching

         8       the great -- the greatness of being a member of

         9       the Supreme Court and participating in every way

        10       in shaping America.

        11                      Now, what is interesting to me is

        12       that, as we change in this country, new people

        13       come into government.  New people come into

        14       leadership and, when we go through these

        15       changes, there is always the feeling how could

        16       this particular person become a President? How

        17       could that particular person become a Supreme

        18       Court Justice? How could they be a United States

        19       Senator? How could they be a governor? Look what

        20       they did.  This man is a radical or this woman

        21       is a radical.  This is an unreliable person.

        22       This is someone who can't be counted on to

        23       emphasize the verities for which this country











                                                              355

         1       stands for, and you can go through the list,

         2       whether it's the women's rights movement or the

         3       civil rights movement, or the movement for -- as

         4       recognizing Hispanics or Puerto Ricans or for

         5       Jews or the Irish or the Italians.  Every time

         6       the leaders, as they are perceived and as they

         7       rise from the ranks, how could you entrust the

         8       future of the United States of America to people

         9       like this? They're foreigners.  They're aliens.

        10       They don't represent what this country stands

        11       for. They're not responsible. They cannot rise

        12       to the mantle of leadership.

        13                      Well, look at the life of

        14       Thurgood Marshall. Thirty years ago, he was a

        15       revolutionary; 30 years ago, he was perceived as

        16       someone who was close to being irresponsible.

        17       How could you entrust the life of this country

        18       to him? And here we are at the end of his life

        19       knowing that he was a rock around which the

        20       Supreme Court of the United States functioned

        21       for the last 20 or so years; someone who took

        22       his revolutionary principles and made them the

        23       very bedrock of the United States Constitution











                                                              356

         1       because when he was in the majority on the court

         2       and then, now, when he was in the minority on

         3       the court, you could count on Thurgood Marshall

         4       to talk about what is important for this

         5       country, not just in civil rights because that's

         6       where he was an expert.  But read his opinions

         7       on anti-trust law or securities law or insurance

         8       law. All of the esoteria with which -- and the

         9       complexity which this country is made of and

        10       which have to function, all of these have to

        11       function together in order to continue our

        12       prosperity and to continue our leadership in the

        13       world and our leadership for ourselves.  And

        14       here was this revolutionary who grew to take his

        15       principles to the very top of this nation and

        16       plant them immutably into the Constitution of

        17       the United States.

        18                      So what I take from this great

        19       life is a lesson to this country that, as we

        20       grow from era to era, from time to time, from

        21       revolution to revolution, from change to change,

        22       we have to take heed of the leaders that lead

        23       these movements because they may be revolution











                                                              357

         1       aries at the time and some people may think

         2       they're going off the track and they're leading

         3       this country to perdition when, in fact, they

         4       are the leaders who lead this country to its

         5       true self and to its fulfillment in their

         6       particular time and their particular place.

         7                      I don't think there's any greater

         8       tribute that we can pay to any man than to say

         9       that he spent his life in bringing about change

        10       which was needed, going that last mile to make

        11       sure the change occurred, and then taking it and

        12       making it part of the American way of life and

        13       making America better than it was, and that's

        14       what Thurgood Marshall did.

        15                      Finally, I simply want to say

        16       this: I was in Washington, I had the privilege

        17       of being in Washington last Wednesday and most

        18       of us who sat there were expecting to see

        19       Thurgood Marshall because he was listed as a -

        20       as imparting the oath to our new vice-president,

        21       Albert Gore, and it was very disappointing when,

        22       without any notice, when it came to that moment

        23       in time when Senator Gore was being sworn in as











                                                              358

         1       vice-president, the name of Justice White was

         2       announced instead of the name of Justice

         3       Marshall.

         4                      We all knew that Justice Marshall

         5       had not been well, but no one had any sense that

         6       he was so close to leaving us, and it was a

         7       great disappointment because that ceremony was

         8       impressive.  It was inspiring and it would have

         9       been a wonderful end of a -- an unimaginably

        10       important career to have seen him there.

        11                      So I just want to say for myself,

        12       it was a very disappointing moment not to be

        13       able to see him there as it would have turned

        14       out in some of the last moments in his life.

        15                      So I agree with Joe Galiber, this

        16       is the moment for sadness and disappointment

        17       but, more importantly, it's a moment of

        18       celebrating a very, very important life, a very

        19       important life style, a very important landmark

        20       in our history, and hopefully an important

        21       lesson to all of us as to how great leaders are

        22       born, how they become great leaders and how they

        23       finally manage to lead not only their own











                                                              359

         1       causes, but the greatest cause of all, which is

         2       the greatness and the growth of this great

         3       country.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Marchi.

         6                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

         7       it's certainly appropriate and fitting that this

         8       resolution be before us and it has great signif

         9       icance.  The road to recognition of human

        10       dignity is a long and difficult one.  I think

        11       we're indebted to Senator Paterson at one point

        12       who pointed out the presence, yes, in the

        13       Constitution of the United States of the

        14       vestigial remnant that is not applicable.

        15                      Thomas Jefferson himself was a

        16       slave owner, but already he felt that -- that

        17       this was not the right way to go.  As a matter

        18       of fact, when he developed his Articles of

        19       Confederation and the Northwest Ordinance he

        20       expressly ruled it out.  He authored it and did

        21       not want that as a part of the Northwest

        22       Ordinance which led to the development of five

        23       states north of the Ohio River, and it was by











                                                              360

         1       fitting false jumps and starts that we reached

         2       the time of the Civil War, the Emancipation

         3       Proclamation, and the adoption of the Thir

         4       teenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments.

         5                      But still it was an enormous

         6       territory to travel and, indeed, I think the

         7       contribution of Thurgood Marshall and Dr. King

         8       was not to structure a brutal reaction to all

         9       this, but to win the hearts and minds of the men

        10       and women of America and the echo that has

        11       resounded around the world and in this that they

        12       were eminently successful because these were the

        13       efforts that were crowned with success.

        14                      Not that this was the end of the

        15       road, but it established the premises upon which

        16       a society could, in an orderly way, in a very

        17       happy way really, interact with each other on

        18       the basis of full acceptance and respect for the

        19       dignity of every member of the human family.

        20       And this was a -- this was a -- not only a legal

        21       achievement, something that went into the

        22       Constitution.

        23                      England has no constitution at











                                                              361

         1       all.  They don't have a supreme court, but it

         2       grew out of the customs and usages of the people

         3       and they too have a very fine open society.

         4                      But this -- this went to the root

         5       of the spiritual, the spiritual -- spiritual

         6       heritage of our country, and it became part of

         7       our very being, and hopefully this is the path

         8       that will also lead us into implementing that

         9       respect that we have for every member of

        10       humanity, and with that must also go a concern

        11       for that person's existence, for his happiness

        12       and her happiness which contributes really.  It

        13       helps everyone.  It helps the one who -- who

        14       recognizes this as much as the one who receives

        15       this recognition.

        16                      So we all benefit.  We all

        17       benefit by the prodigious monumental efforts of

        18       Thurgood Marshall and Dr. King.  We all benefit

        19       by it, and it establishes an even higher plateau

        20       and a more auspicious one notwithstanding the

        21       flaws that exist in a human society, but as we

        22       lift our sights, as we lift those sights, it

        23       gives us a better vision of what can be and will











                                                              362

         1       be, if we want it to be.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Galiber, is your resolution open for other

         4       people?

         5                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Oh, definitely.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  No,

         7       they're coming up to the desk.  The resolution

         8       is open for anybody who wishes to co-sponsor.

         9                      Senator Daly -- raise your hand

        10       or let the desk know if you want to be on it.

        11       Senator Daly.

        12                      SENATOR DALY:  I think it's

        13       appropriate that we place in the record today

        14       the words of a peer of Justice Marshall.

        15       Justice Sandra Day O'Connor described Justice

        16       Marshall as "a man who sees the world exactly as

        17       it is and pushes on to make it what it can

        18       become."  And seldom have I heard one sentence

        19       so completely and so admiringly describe an

        20       individual, and I thought it would be

        21       appropriate if these words were interred in the

        22       document that will preserve his memory and

        23       glorify his life.











                                                              363

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         2       Dollinger, and then Senator Paterson.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, I rise to just focus on one incident

         5       that I think might provide a little guidance and

         6       I hope provide some guidance for the future of

         7       this chamber.

         8                      One of the episodes that Senator

         9       Galiber mentioned was the advocacy of Justice

        10       Marshall in the Brown v. Board of Education

        11       case, and I think it's important that we look

        12       back on what was at stake in that case and what

        13       role he played in it.

        14                      For about 70 years before it,

        15       this country had lived under the rule of Plessy

        16       v. Ferguson which said that it was O.K. under

        17       the Constitution to have a separate but equal

        18       system in which we treated people differently,

        19       but our Constitution did not compel everyone in

        20       this country to work together, to live together

        21       and to be educated together.

        22                      So the hurdle that he faced in

        23       Brown v. Board of Education was a sizeable one.











                                                              364

         1       Yet he performed his task admirably and, in

         2       fact, convinced the entire United States Supreme

         3       Court to strike down that rule of law and to

         4       usher in a new era in which "separate but equal"

         5       would no longer be a part.

         6                      Those of you who were alive then

         7        -- I was just a young child -- I'm sure no

         8       doubt recall what transpired after that.  A

         9       veritable constitutional crisis when certain

        10       states decided that they were immune from the

        11       new nationwide principle of integration of

        12       opportunity.

        13                      Required President Eisenhower to

        14       send troops into Arkansas.  It required confron

        15       tations between governors who were segregation

        16       ists and a president and a government, a

        17       national government, who were committed to the

        18       principles of equality.

        19                      Now, as we look back 30 years

        20       later, it seems that that's a constant struggle

        21       that we have achieved a sense of integration, a

        22       sense of our community of purpose with all the

        23       people in this country.  Yet, I think it's











                                                              365

         1       important to recognize that the dream espoused

         2       in Brown v. Board of Education, one that

         3       Thurgood Marshall created, is not a reality

         4       yet.

         5                      I concur with my colleague,

         6       Senator Galiber, we are not down the road yet.

         7       We can take some consolation in knowing that

         8       those who took the first big step have made it

         9       much easier for us who take the smaller step to

        10       follow in their path, but we would do Thurgood

        11       Marshall a disservice if we didn't commit our

        12       selves in this state to making sure that the

        13       principle of equal opportunity in education for

        14       all our children is a part of our future.  We in

        15       this body hold the power to make that happen.

        16       We owe it to Thurgood Marshall's legacy to make

        17       sure that it does.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      Thurgood Marshall was not an

        23       outstanding African-American Justice of the











                                                              366

         1       Supreme Court.  He was an outstanding Justice of

         2       the Supreme Court, and I think that that rang

         3       pretty clear from the remarks that Senator Daly

         4       and Senator Marchi who pointed out that we are

         5       all indebted to Justice Marshall, that the

         6       struggles that Justice Marshall endured in his

         7       legal career and then as a Justice of the

         8       Supreme Court are symbolic of our struggle as

         9       Americans to receive equality in justice.

        10                      Certainly when Senator Ohrenstein

        11       pointed out the other areas of law that Justice

        12       Marshall made great inroads in, the areas of

        13       anti-trust law, the areas of securities law and

        14       I was thinking of the decisions he made on

        15       patents, we recognize this great talent.

        16                      But at the same time Justice

        17       Marshall is a symbol; Justice Marshall was the

        18       grandson of a slave.  Well, our President

        19       Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of our

        20       President William Henry Harrison. Our President

        21       John Quincy Adams was the son of President John

        22       Adams, but no one in the Marshall family would

        23       ever have had the opportunity to serve America











                                                              367

         1       as Justice Marshall did, really by an accident

         2       of birth, and so when we celebrate the career of

         3       Justice Thurgood Marshall, we are also

         4       celebrating those African-Americans, both the

         5       living and the dead, who struggled throughout

         6       the 19th and 20th centuries to build a viable

         7       national movement that was aimed in the

         8       direction of receiving economic, political and

         9       social justice.

        10                      And so Justice Marshall is really

        11       symbolic of many whose names we don't know who,

        12       on the lower frequencies, offered America the

        13       same opportunities for freedom and justice that

        14       Justice Marshall was able to write in his

        15       decisions, and when we think of Justice

        16       Marshall's grandparents who were slaves, we

        17       think of the Supreme Court decision of the Dred

        18       Scott case in 1857.

        19                      This was the case that ruled,

        20       some believed, that there could be slavery north

        21       of the 36th parallel, and so that the Kansas

        22       Nebraska Act and also the compromise of 1850

        23       were valid, but actually the Dred Scott case did











                                                              368

         1       not rule on that particular issue.  That issue

         2       was rendered by a Supreme Court verdict of 1852

         3       in the case of Spada v. Graham.

         4                      The Dred Scott decision ruled

         5       that Dred Scott, since he was considered to be a

         6       slave and the property of other parties, did not

         7       have the right to sue in a national court case

         8       before the United States Supreme Court and so,

         9       what we learn is that, when Justice Marshall was

        10       growing up and he talked to his grandparents,

        11       they couldn't talk about the institution of the

        12       railroad or the greater than ever economic

        13       development in the United States in the late

        14       19th Century.  All they could talk to him was

        15       about herding the fields and picking cotton and

        16       all of those jobs that were incumbent upon

        17       slaves in this country.

        18                      So when we look at how far we've

        19       come, we recognize that Justice Marshall's

        20       decisions really are indemic of a problem that

        21       this country continues to have and that is

        22       simply that ever since the Brown v. Board of

        23       Education decision of 1954, we have not been











                                                              369

         1       able to create the type of economic and

         2       political and social justice that we would like

         3       to have despite the passage of the 1964 Civil

         4       Rights Act or the -- or the 1965 Voting Rights

         5       Act, and that those such as Justice Marshall are

         6       really something that we as Americans have to

         7       consider to be of -- of a valueless proportion

         8       to our development as a country, and when you

         9       pick up the newspaper, as I did last week and

        10       read that Justice Marshall's predecessor voted

        11       to abolish a 19... 1876 civil rights decision

        12       that would have protected clinics that provide

        13       abortions from the type of pressure and the type

        14       of political organizing for which they have been

        15       victim of, we recognize that maybe we shouldn't

        16       be celebrating the passing of Justice Marshall,

        17       but should be very sad.

        18                      So we have to read that Justice

        19       Marshall's predecessor rendered a decision in a

        20       case where the Reagan/Bush Justice Department

        21       sued a city in Alabama because an African

        22       American city councilman could not receive the

        23       powers that were incumbent upon the office at











                                                              370

         1       the time that this council member was a

         2       candidate for office because the board of

         3       governors of this city reassigned and realigned

         4       the actual political powers that this office

         5       conveyed, we recognize that in a 7 to 2 decision

         6       in which the Justice Department prevailed, that

         7       unfortunately Justice Marshall's predecessor

         8       voted with Justice Scalia to delay what would be

         9       equality in this country right now.

        10                      So I think that we certainly are

        11        -- should pay a great debt of gratitude to

        12       Senator Galiber and Senator Waldon who could not

        13       be here today for having the foresight to

        14       celebrate this time in American history which is

        15       certainly one that we would want to reflect as

        16       the passage of a great era in the United States

        17       Supreme Court and the passing of a great man.

        18                      I'm only sorry that the same

        19       foresight did not exist when Americans opposed

        20       the nomination of Justice Marshall back in April

        21       of 1967, not because they thought that his

        22       decisions would be too liberal, not because they

        23       disagreed with an ideological point of view that











                                                              371

         1       Justice Marshall had, but because Justice

         2       Marshall looked a little bit different than

         3       those who sat on the court before him.

         4                      Through his effort and through

         5       the efforts of President Johnson who nominated

         6       him and all of those who spoke on this

         7       resolution today, certainly he would be

         8       remembered a lot more fondly by all Americans

         9       than he was thought of when he was a nominee to

        10       the Supreme Court.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        12       resolution.  Senator Nolan. Would you care to

        13       speak as to the resolution?

        14                      SENATOR NOLAN: Like to speak

        15       briefly to the resolution. It's a tough act to

        16       follow Senator Paterson, Senator Dollinger,

        17       Senator Marchi and so many of my colleagues.

        18                      But truly I think a lot of us

        19       here realize that maybe the single biggest issue

        20       facing this country over the next 10 to 20 years

        21       is the whole issue of race relationships in this

        22       country and, you know, we have certainly come a

        23       long way since President Lincoln enunciated the











                                                              372

         1       Emancipation Proclamation, since many things

         2       that have happened over the years and certainly

         3       the Brown v. Board of Education decision where

         4       Thurgood Marshall so ably represented the

         5       plaintiff and, as I say, we still have an awful

         6       long way to go, but Thurgood Marshall certainly

         7       was one of the people in this country that has

         8       helped move our process forward so considerably.

         9                      When we think of the time that

        10       Thurgood Marshall grew up, where when he wanted

        11       to -- a brilliant student in college, when he

        12       tried to enter the University of Maryland, was

        13       turned down on the basis that -- of his race,

        14       and who later sued, by the way, the University

        15       of Maryland in order to allow minorities to be

        16       able to enroll there, we look at his career, and

        17       he certainly is one of the great human beings

        18       and one of the great people in the history of

        19       this country, not black or white or Hispanic or

        20       whatever, but one of the great human beings, as

        21       Senator Paterson talked about and Senator

        22       Galiber, and it was the fact that he was an

        23       African-American serving on the Supreme Court.











                                                              373

         1       He was a great Supreme Court Justice.

         2                      He, very interesting, many of his

         3       early decisions, when he was dissenting, later

         4       became the majority opinions of that court.

         5                      I think he's certainly a man that

         6       we all can admire very, very much, and certainly

         7       it was a sad day when health necessitated that

         8       he step down from the court.

         9                      He certainly left a great legacy.

        10       He left a legacy of great intellect, great

        11       compassion as a human being.  I thought it was

        12       very interesting that some people thought, in

        13       his later years, he was a very taciturn, very

        14       stern individual, but yet when I read stories

        15       about what Judge Brennan said about him, that he

        16       made that outward exterior, that he was one of

        17       the great raconteurs and great storytellers that

        18       he's ever met, a person who could weave stories

        19       about his youth, his growing up, and so on, to

        20       everyday situations and equate them to everyday

        21       situations that happen in our lives, and by

        22       telling a lot of these stories and many of them

        23       humorous, and so on, he was able to make points











                                                              374

         1       to people that might not easily bve recognized

         2       if you were going in a confrontation or

         3       one-on-one kind of situation.

         4  A.   So I am very happy and pleased to be able to

         5       stand up here today and second this resolution.

         6                      Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the

         8       resolution, all in favor say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Those opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The resolution is unanimously

        13       adopted.

        14                      Senator Stachowski.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI: When we did

        16       the package of resolutions, I was remiss in not

        17       asking if anyone else besides on behalf of the

        18       western New York guys, who weren't on, asked me

        19       to put them on Resolution Number 258, which is

        20       another Bills resolution -

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR: Another one?

        22                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes; this one

        23       is marking the historic fact that the Bills are











                                                              375

         1       going to the third -- three straight titles, the

         2       only team in the history of the league that are

         3       going to the Super Bowl the third straight

         4       title, and anyone else that would like to get on

         5       that, I'd like to open that up for them.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Anyone

         7       else that would like to get on New York's team

         8       may join the resolution.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes,

        11       Senator Gold.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD: Yes, if the

        13       individuals who are raising their hands now

        14       would also like to be on my victory resolution

        15       for the Bills next week -

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator

        18       Present.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT: Can we return to

        20       reports of standing committees?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, we

        22       may. Secretary will return to the reports of

        23       standing committees.











                                                              376

         1                      THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese,

         2       from the Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and

         3       Correction, reports the following bills directly

         4       for third reading:

         5                      Senate Bill Number 128, by

         6       Senator Padavan, an act to amend the Executive

         7       Law; and ALSO Senate Bill Number 577, by Senator

         8       LaValle, an act to amend the Correction Law.

         9                      Senator Levy, from the Committee

        10       on Transportation, reports the following bills

        11       directly for third reading:

        12                      Senate Bill Number 67, by Senator

        13       Levy, requiring the Department of Motor Vehicles

        14       to inform the public of problems;

        15                      Senate Bill Number 70, by Senator

        16       Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        17       Law, in relation to penalties;

        18                      Senate Bill Number 192, by

        19       Senator Levy and others, an act to amend the

        20       Highway Law, in relation to making the cost of

        21       structural integrity evaluations;

        22                      Senate Bill Number 232, by

        23       Senator Tully and others, an act to amend











                                                              377

         1       the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the State

         2       Finance Law.

         3                      All bills reported directly for

         4       third reading.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without

         6       objection, all bills reported directly to third

         7       reading.

         8                      Senator Present.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,

        10       there being no further business, I move we

        11       adjourn until Monday, February 3rd, at 2:30

        12       p.m., intervening days to be legislative days.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The

        14       Senate will stand adjourned until Monday at 2:30

        15       p.m., prompt, intervening days to be legislative

        16       days.

        17                      (Whereupon at 4:48 p.m., the

        18       Senate adjourned.)

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23