Regular Session - March 23, 1993

                                                                 
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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                       March 23, 1993

        11                         3:39 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                       REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Senators will please find

         4       their seats.

         5                      Please rise with me for the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         9                      Today in the absence of clergy,

        10       we'll bow our heads for a moment of silent

        11       prayer.

        12                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        13       silence. )

        14                      Secretary will begin by reading

        15       the Journal.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        17       Monday, March 22.  The Senate met pursuant to

        18       adjournment.  Senator Farley in the chair upon

        19       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        20       Journal of Sunday, March 21, was read and

        21       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hearing

        23       no objection, the Journal will stand approved as











                                                             
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         1       read.

         2                      The order of business:

         3                      Presentation of petitions.

         4                      Messages from the Assembly.

         5                      Messages from the Governor.

         6                      Reports of standing committees.

         7                      We have a report of a standing

         8       committee.

         9                      Secretary will read it.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        11       from the Committee on Finance reports the

        12       following nominations:

        13                      Member of the State Council on

        14       Home Care Services, the Reverend Harold D.

        15       Avery, of Syracuse; Audrey Morris Petersen of

        16       Jamaica; Vivienne Torres-Suarez of Bayside.

        17                      Member of the Administrative

        18       Review Board for Professional Medical Conduct,

        19       Winston S. Price, M.D., of Brooklyn.

        20                      Member of the Palisades

        21       Interstate Park Commission, Mary A. Fisk of New

        22       York City.

        23                      Member of the Taconic State Park,











                                                             
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         1       Recreation and Historic Preservation Commission,

         2       William Sloan Greenawalt of Hartsdale.

         3                      Member of the Central New York

         4       State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation

         5       Commission, Adrienne Kay Mannion of

         6       Fayetteville.

         7                      Member of the Genesee State Park,

         8       Recreation and Historic Preservation Commission,

         9       Mary M. Miskell of Geneseo.

        10                      Commissioner of the Interstate

        11       Sanitation Commission, Donna Birch Gerstle of

        12       Staten Island.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        14       appointments, on the confirmation.  All those in

        15       favor, aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Those opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Members are confirmed.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        22       I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All in











                                                             
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         1       favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold it, sir.  Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         6       Mega.

         7                      SENATOR MEGA:  On behalf of

         8       Senator Farley, I would like to place a sponsor

         9       star on Calendar 204, Bill Number 992.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Farley's bill is starred.

        12                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President.

        13       Recommit Senate Print Number 3615, Calendar

        14       Number 210, to the Finance Committee.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        16       objection.

        17                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President.  On

        18       page 15, I offer the following amendments to

        19       Calendar Number 169, Senate Print Number 1257,

        20       and ask that said bill retain its place on Third

        21       Reading Calendar, on behalf of Senator Goodman.

        22                      Thank you.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without











                                                             
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         1       objection.

         2                      Senator Gold?

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  Mr.

         4       President.  With regard to the Resolution

         5       Calendar, Number 803, by Senator Maltese, I

         6       understand he is agreeable to allow members to

         7       co-sponsor it.  This is the resolution

         8       commemorating the publication of the first issue

         9       of the Minority Business Times.  And there may

        10       be members that want to be on that.  That is

        11       803.

        12                      And 798, commending Head Coach

        13       Brian Mahoney of St. John's College upon the

        14       occasion of his designation as the 1992-93 Big

        15       East Coach of the Year, I know certainly Senator

        16       Stachowski wants to be on that, and there may be

        17       some others also.

        18                      Other than that, I have no

        19       objection to the calendar being adopted.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Maltese, what's your pleasure?

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President.

        23       I would appreciate the record indicating that











                                                             
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         1       had I been present yesterday, Calendar Number

         2       176, I would have voted in the affirmative.  I

         3       was on Senate business at a hearing at 270

         4       Broadway.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         6       record will so state.

         7                      Do you wish to open your two

         8       resolutions?

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: They are

        12       open.  Approach the desk if you want to be a

        13       co-sponsor.

        14                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Cook.

        17                      SENATOR COOK:  I would like to

        18       suggest that Senator Gold be a co-sponsor on all

        19       of Senator Maltese's resolutions in the future.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.  I

        21       want to thank Senator Cook for his advice.  As

        22       usual, I can't take it.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All











                                                             
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         1       right.  All in favor of adopting the Resolution

         2       Calendar, say aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Those opposed, nay.

         5                      (There was no response. )

         6                      The Resolution Calendar is

         7       adopted.

         8                      Senator Spano.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Can I place a

        10       sponsor star on a bill, Calendar Number 197,

        11       2746A?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  197 is

        13       starred at the request of the sponsor.

        14                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Present.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        18       Would you recognize Senator Hannon, please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       Hannon.

        21                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

        22       I believe there is a resolution at the desk.  I

        23       ask that be called up, be read and then a chance











                                                             
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         1       to say a few comments in regard to it.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Secretary will read the title of the

         4       resolution.  Do you want the entire resolution

         5       read or just the title?

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  The entire

         7       resolution, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Entire

         9       resolution.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        11       Resolution Number 4666, by Senator Hannon and

        12       others, urging the New York State Congressional

        13       Delegation to propose a Constitutional Amendment

        14       for ratification by the states which would

        15       specify that the Congress of the United States

        16       shall have the power to prohibit the physical

        17       desecration of the American Flag.

        18                      Whereas, although the right of

        19       free expression is part of the foundation of the

        20       United States Constitution, very carefully drawn

        21       limits on expression in specific instances have

        22       long been recognized as legitimate means of

        23       maintaining public safety and decency as well as











                                                             
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         1       orderliness and productive value of public

         2       debate.

         3                      Certain actions, although

         4       arguably related to one person's free

         5       expression, nevertheless raise issues concerning

         6       public decency, public peace and the rights of

         7       expression and sacred values of others.

         8                      There are symbols of our national

         9       soul such as the Washington Monument, the United

        10       States Capitol Building, the Tomb of the Unknown

        11       Soldier, the Vietnam Memorial and memorials to

        12       our greatest leaders which are the property of

        13       every American and are therefore worthy of

        14       protection from desecration and dishonor.

        15                      The American Flag to this day is

        16       a most honorable and worthy banner of a nation

        17       which is thankful for its strengths and

        18       committed to curing its faults and remains the

        19       destination of millions of immigrants attracted

        20       by the universal power of the American ideal.

        21                      The law as interpreted by the

        22       United States Supreme Court no longer accords to

        23       the Stars and Stripes that reverence, respect











                                                             
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         1       and dignity befitting the banner of the most

         2       noble experiment of a nation-state.

         3                      It is only fitting that people

         4       everywhere should lend their voices to the

         5       forceful call for the restoration to the Stars

         6       and Stripes of a proper station under the law of

         7       decency; now, therefore, be it

         8                      Resolved, that the legislative

         9       body respectfully urge the New York State

        10       Congressional Delegation to propose an amendment

        11       to the United States Constitution for

        12       ratification by the states specifying that

        13       Congress and the states shall have the power to

        14       prohibit the physical desecration of the Flag of

        15       the United States; and be it further

        16                      Resolved, that copies of this

        17       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        18       to all members of the Congressional Delegation

        19       from the state of New York.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Hannon on the resolution.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.  A

        23       procedural point, first of all.  Some people











                                                             
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         1       have inquired if they could become co-sponsors.

         2       There is a number of co-sponsors already, but I

         3       ask that you might make it available at the desk

         4       for anybody else who would like to be

         5       co-sponsor.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  If the

         7       members would approach the desk to be a sponsor

         8       of this resolution, Senator Hannon will be

         9       pleased to let you on it.

        10                      Senator Hannon on the resolution.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.  Mr.

        12       President.  We citizens of the United States are

        13       quite fortunate to be afforded the freedoms that

        14       are granted to us in our Constitution.

        15                      In fact, we're probably among the

        16       most fortunate peoples that are here on this

        17       world.  But we recognize sometimes that there

        18       are abuses of those freedoms, and there are

        19       times when we have to draw lines which are

        20       necessary.

        21                      Where it comes to areas of free

        22       speech, we have often said there are lines, such

        23       as we don't call for fires in crowded theaters.











                                                             
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         1       And when it comes to the issue in regard to the

         2       American Flag, I might quote from what Justice

         3       Rehnquist said a couple of years ago in the

         4       decision that dealt with this issue, when he

         5       said that the American Flag is more than a

         6       symbol.  It's not just another, quote, "idea" or

         7       point of view that is competing for recognition

         8       in the marketplace of ideals.  It's the American

         9       Flag that brings all of us together.

        10                      So I would think it would be

        11       fitting that this Senate once again, as we have

        12       done in the past, with respect to our veterans

        13       and all our people, take a stand and request

        14       that our delegation in Congress introduce and

        15       pass a resolution that would amend our U. S.

        16       Constitution and make constitutional protections

        17       for our flag against its physical desecration.

        18                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       DeFrancisco.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I'm very

        22       produced to rise as a co-sponsor of this

        23       resolution.  And it's particularly appropriate











                                                             
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         1       today that it is going to be voted on when so

         2       many members of the state American Legion are

         3       present in our chambers.

         4                      Three, in particular, I would

         5       like to introduce.  We have the state Commander,

         6       William H. Purcell; we have the Adjutant,

         7       Richard M. Pedro; and the Legislative Chairman,

         8       John DePersis, here today.  And I know that this

         9       particular resolution is extremely important to

        10       all the members of the American Legion and all

        11       veterans groups.

        12                      As Senator Hannon has mentioned,

        13       there are limits to free speech.  And the

        14       Supreme Court certainly has a right to interpret

        15       the Constitution as they see fit.  And we, as

        16       legislators, certainly have the right to attempt

        17       to amend the Constitution in view of what their

        18       decision was.

        19                      And I would hope that we would

        20       have unanimous support for this resolution so

        21       that a Constitutional Amendment can, in fact,

        22       happen and that the people in this country who

        23       respect and honor this flag will be placed where











                                                             
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         1       they should be, behind that flag, a flag that's

         2       not going to be desecrated in the future.

         3                      Thank you.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Maltese.

         6                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         7       I rise in support of the resolution put forth by

         8       Senator Hannon.  I think, as the Senator has

         9       indicated, it is indeed fitting that the

        10       resolution come before this body in the presence

        11       of the officers and members of the American

        12       Legion.

        13                      I myself am a member of the

        14       Garrity Post in Ridgewood Queens, New York.

        15                      Mr. President.  This issue as an

        16       issue has come up so many times not only before

        17       this body but before our national Legislature.

        18       As I think back as a youth, when Pearl Harbor

        19       was attacked, the honor that our nation's flag

        20       was held in by so many persons in America,

        21       especially the immigrants.  I remember being

        22       brought up in an immigrant neighborhood and

        23       having people cry as they held and clutched the











                                                             
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         1       flag of our country when we heard about the

         2       heroism of so many Americans at Pearl Harbor and

         3       afterwards.

         4                      And as a youth, I remember Colin

         5       P. Kelly, Jr. , and his heroism as he lost his

         6       life at the beginning of the Second World War,

         7       and what this flag has meant to the heros of our

         8       country through all the wars, and I especially

         9       remember Iwo Jima and what a flag, the raising

        10       of a flag meant, not only to the heros of the

        11       Pacific but the heros of the Second World War

        12       and the people that eventually carried us to

        13       victory.

        14                      I am saying, Mr. President, that

        15       obviously our country needs this amendment.

        16       Obviously our country needs this legislation.

        17       Because there are those, unfortunately, among us

        18       who would tread upon our country and tread upon

        19       our country's traditions and tread upon our

        20       country's flag.

        21                      It brings to mind an original

        22       flag, an early flag of our nation that held a

        23       snake and the words "Don't tread on me."  Mr.











                                                             
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         1       President, I believe that what this amendment

         2       says is, "Do not tread on our country's flag.

         3       Do not tread on our country's honor."

         4                      I rise in favor of this

         5       resolution.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         7       Leichter.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         9       President.  We've debated this resolution before

        10       with similar such measures, and I'm not going to

        11       go on at any great length.  I'm glad that

        12       Senator Maltese had an opportunity to make his

        13       very impassioned plea.

        14                      But, you know, I heard Senator

        15       Maltese say, "We need this."  And I wracked my

        16       brain and tried to see, "Wait a second.  Was the

        17       flag in danger of being desecrated? Was there a

        18       real problem out there? Was it Americans failed

        19       to honor the flag?"

        20                      Couple years ago, you had one nut

        21       in Texas who burns a flag, and you want to amend

        22       the Constitution.  I don't understand it.  There

        23       is no need for this.  Of course, you honor the











                                                             
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         1       flag.  Of course, it's horrible to desecrate the

         2       flag.  But every time that we get one nut, one

         3       wacko who does something which is offensive,

         4       we're going to amend the Constitution? I can't

         5       understand it.

         6                      And let me also say -- and I want

         7       to say and acknowledge also the fact that we

         8       hear from the people of the American Legion, and

         9       we have great respect for the Legion and

        10       particularly for the people who served their

        11       country and who are now members of the American

        12       Legion, and I appreciate and understand their

        13       concern about patriotism.

        14                      But patriotism is the way you

        15       act, the way you behave, the love of your

        16       country, and it's expressed really in your

        17       member of your community, your member of your

        18       neighborhood, the way you support your

        19       government, the way you practice democracy.

        20                      Symbols, of course, play a role

        21       and are significant, but what is really

        22       important is the American way of life, the

        23       Constitution, which is wonderful.  It is the











                                                             
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         1       best one in this country.  And yes, we have a

         2       symbol which is an important symbol, the

         3       American Flag.  But I don't think that you need

         4       to express that love that we have for our flag

         5       in this sort of a rigid way, and it may be

         6       something -- you know, if you can't clean up the

         7       environment, Senator Hannon, and if you can't

         8       take care of the roads and you can't take care

         9       of the high property taxes and you can't provide

        10       enough money for your school system and you

        11       can't provide enough mental health care and you

        12       can't deal with the problems of the state, it

        13       may be satisfying to send a resolution to the

        14       Congress and to beat the drums of patriotism.

        15                      I think maybe we ought to deal

        16       with the problems that we have in this state and

        17       not tinker in this manner with the Constitution.

        18                      So, Mr. President, I'm going to

        19       vote against this resolution.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Larkin.

        22                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        23       we're talking about a symbol here of











                                                             
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         1       Americanism.  We have today in the galleries and

         2       up front here members of the American Legion.

         3       Oh, yes, there are legions that have been here

         4       and all of our veterans, they fought under that

         5       flag.  Those other countries that fought side by

         6       side with us in some of the far off lands, they

         7       too, expressed appreciation.  And their concern

         8       was that it was a great flag representing a

         9       great country.

        10                      Take a picture in 1945 at Mount

        11       Suribachi, when they raised that flag, that

        12       picture was all over the world, every press.

        13       And, you know, as our troops went overseas,

        14       everybody was very proud to wave that flag.  And

        15       when the troops came home, they all wanted to be

        16       part of that, especially politicians, to show

        17       how much they supported that.

        18                      But we have to rise above that

        19       right now and say to the Congress, "Wake up."

        20       We are the greatest country in the world, and

        21       that flag out there represents us.  And many of

        22       us who served in combat and served overseas

        23       appreciate it.  And the young men and women of











                                                             
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         1       our country who have given their life, made the

         2       supreme sacrifice under the auspices of that

         3       flag, let's not turn around and say to them,

         4       "Your life and that flag doesn't mean

         5       anything."  That flag means a lot, and I think

         6       it's about time we in this chamber stood up and

         7       said my flag and my country and thank you to the

         8       veterans.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        10       Gold.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.  Senator Larkin, I couldn't agree

        13       with you more when you say that the people in

        14       this room should stand up and be thankful for

        15       flag and for country, and that's why I wonder at

        16       the beginning of every session why so few of us

        17       lead by example and come in and salute the

        18       flag.

        19                      I offered an amendment to the

        20       rules of this house which said rather than start

        21       our session with the salute to the flag, when we

        22       all know very few people are here, that we wait

        23       until a more appropriate time like right now and











                                                             
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         1       salute the flag.  Let's show the world that we

         2       respect our flag.

         3                      This morning -- or this

         4       afternoon, rather, I had the honor of saluting

         5       our flag with Senator Cook and DeFrancisco and

         6       Farley and Holland and LaValle, Mega, Present,

         7       Sears, Volker and some Democrats.  But perhaps,

         8       while we're doing this resolution, we ought to

         9       pause right now, now that we have more than just

        10       the 25 percent of the Republican Party here, and

        11       we all ought to now salute our flag, those of us

        12       who missed that opportunity, the 75 percent.

        13       Why don't we stand up now.  Salute the flag.  I

        14       will do it again.  I will do it five times a

        15       day.  I'm proud of my flag.

        16                      But if you want people to love

        17       that flag and respect the flag, well, that's

        18       what I hope we're teaching society by our

        19       example.  I hope that's what youngsters are

        20       learning in the schools.  But you can't force

        21       people to respect anything if you don't show the

        22       example or if society on a day-to-day basis

        23       doesn't give them, in reality, fulfillment of











                                                             
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         1       the dreams that that flag represents.

         2                      Senator Leichter pointed out that

         3       we go through this debate annually.  I guess if

         4       somebody wanted to make an argument for a part

         5       time Legislature, one thing you could do is take

         6       the 75 or 80 percent of things that we do year

         7       after year and just the first month play them on

         8       videotape and maybe they wouldn't have to have

         9       us come in to Albany all the time.  We can come

        10       and do the 25 percent that's new.

        11                      But we have had this before, and

        12       one of the arguments I remember we made -- and

        13       it was on a day when we were blessed with

        14       veterans in Albany visiting us, and we said why

        15       don't we honor these veterans by making sure

        16       that their children get the scholarships and go

        17       to college and that the Office of Veteran

        18       Affairs stays open in Washington and in the

        19       state and that the hospitals for veterans are

        20       there and we take care of these people and show

        21       that when they honored our flag and went to

        22       battle, we don't forget them.  That's how you

        23       honor the flag.











                                                             
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         1                      You honor your teachers, your

         2       parents, your country, by living day by day by

         3       those principles not by telling some nut -- as

         4       Senator Leichter put it, that if there is one

         5       nut running around the country the entire

         6       country is going to come down on that one nut

         7       and then we're going to go back and forget the

         8       veterans and forget their children that they get

         9       the scholarships and whatever.

        10                      So I don't understand this.  I

        11       really don't.  I don't understand why we have

        12       bills that say you must -- if you're going to go

        13       to a college and have a commencement, you must

        14       do the flag, you must play the National Anthem,

        15       you must do this, you must do that.  The

        16       Legislature must start by saluting the flag, but

        17       nobody comes.  Nobody comes.

        18                      I think there is an overwhelming

        19       amount of hypocrisy right in this room in terms

        20       of what we preach to the public as opposed to

        21       the way we live our lives.  You want people to

        22       respect that flag, let's start right now.  Why

        23       doesn't the next Republican stand up, suggest











                                                             
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         1       that we suspend the rules and salute the flag.

         2       I will second the motion.  We'll go from there.

         3       And let's show people what we think before we

         4       get into this political nonsense.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         6       DeFrancisco.

         7                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  You know,

         8       that was a great exhibition of misdirection.

         9       These items are not mutually exclusive.  We can

        10       provide scholarships for veterans' children.  We

        11       can provide better hospital care and better

        12       long-term care.  We can salute the flag seven

        13       times a day.  But that doesn't mean because we

        14       do that we can't change the law of the United

        15       States.

        16                      And unfortunately, it is not just

        17       one nut.  It happens to be nine members of a

        18       Supreme Court saying the law of the United

        19       States of America is such that we may, if we

        20       choose to, desecrate the flag.

        21                      By passing this resolution and

        22       the Congress passing the resolution and the

        23       constitutional change taking place, that doesn't











                                                             
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         1       mean that that nut can't still burn the flag.

         2       It means that that nut can be punished for it.

         3                      And I think we have to show a

         4       message, I believe, to our children, and right

         5       now we are sending mixed messages to them;

         6       namely, we see a program on TV where someone is

         7       desecrating the flag, and then we see a

         8       requirement or a group of children pledging

         9       allegiance every day.

        10                      I think it's important.  It is

        11       more than just a symbol, and it is more than

        12       just misdirection.  We can do all of these

        13       things, and we should do all of these things.

        14                      And I would urge each of the

        15       Senators to support this resolution.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        17       resolution.  All those in favor aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Those opposed, nay.

        20                      (Response of "Nay." )

        21                      The resolution is adopted.

        22                      And on behalf of the New York

        23       State Senate, Commander, we are delighted to











                                                             
1258

         1       have you here and the other members of the

         2       American Legion, and come back and visit us

         3       again.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         5       President.  I just wanted the record to show

         6       that I voted in the negative, since the clerk

         7       didn't take the actual ayes and nays.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       record will show that Senator Leichter is in the

        10       negative.  Senator Galiber is in the negative,

        11       Senator Waldon, Senator Gold, Espada.

        12       Ohrenstein is in the negative.  Recorded in the

        13       Journal.

        14                      Senator Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        16       Will you recognize Senator Sears, please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        18       Sears.

        19                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.  At the desk, I have a privileged

        21       resolution sponsored by myself and Senator

        22       Hoffmann, and I would ask you to read the full

        23       resolution.  It is not that long.  And I would











                                                             
1259

         1       defer and move its adoption.  And I will defer

         2       my comments because the resolution speaks for

         3       itself.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Sears' resolution.  Would you please read it,

         6       Mr. Secretary.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

         8       Resolution, by Senators Sears and Hoffmann,

         9       calling upon the federal Base Reassignment and

        10       Closure Commission, United States Secretary of

        11       Defense Les Aspin and President Bill Clinton, to

        12       reverse the decision to realign Griffiss Air

        13       Force Base, Rome, New York.

        14                      Whereas, it is the sense of this

        15       legislative body to memorialize certain federal

        16       officials in an effort to reverse the apparent

        17       decision to realign Griffiss Air Force Base

        18       located in Rome, New York.

        19                      Griffiss Air Force Base has been

        20       on the flight line for 51 years, proudly and

        21       steadfastly assisting in the defense efforts of

        22       the United States of America to keep our nation

        23       free and retain its status as leader of the free











                                                             
1260

         1       world.

         2                      Griffiss Air Base stands proudly

         3       memorializing the first airman to lose his life

         4       in the line of duty in Europe during World War

         5       II, Lieutenant Colonel Townsend E. Griffiss of

         6       Buffalo, New York.

         7                      The proposed realignment would,

         8       under the federal government's plan, strip

         9       Griffiss Air Force Base of active flying

        10       missions and would result in the loss of 3,338

        11       military personnel and 1,191 civilian positions,

        12       a total of 4,429 jobs.

        13                      Griffiss Air Base currently

        14       employs 8,581 men and women and generates a 750

        15       million impact on the region's economy, making

        16       it the region's largest employer with a great

        17       impact on the economy of the entire Central New

        18       York Region.

        19                      Realignment of such massive

        20       proportions would mean devastation not only to

        21       the Rome community but for the entire Central

        22       New York region.

        23                      Faced with the loss of the 416th











                                                             
1261

         1       Bomb Wing, the ten B52s it flies, and the 3,613

         2       military and civilian personnel assigned to it;

         3       loss of the 509th Air Refueling Squadron, the

         4       nineteen KC135 tankers it flies and the 375

         5       uniformed personnel assigned to it, local

         6       leaders have gathered together to prevent such

         7       massive downsizing.

         8                      Those local leaders include

         9       elected federal, state, and local officials,

        10       business and community leaders and concerned

        11       residents and citizens, working together to

        12       reverse the plan to realign Griffiss Air Force

        13       Base with its resultant devastation upon the

        14       community; now, therefore, be it

        15                      Resolved, that this legislative

        16       body call upon the federal Base Realignment and

        17       Closure Commission, U. S. Secretary of Defense

        18       Les Aspin and President Bill Clinton to reverse

        19       the decision to realign Griffiss Air Force base;

        20       and be it further

        21                      Resolved, that copies of this

        22       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        23       to the Base Realignment and Closure Commission,











                                                             
1262

         1       U. S. Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, President

         2       Bill Clinton, Governor Mario M. Cuomo,

         3       Congressman Sherwood Boehlert; and Brad Johnson,

         4       Director of the New York State Office of Federal

         5       Affairs.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

         7       resolution.  All those in favor, say aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Those opposed, nay.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Leichter.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  On the

        15       resolution.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        17       resolution?

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I would like

        19       to explain my vote.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Just a

        21       moment.  The resolution is adopted.

        22                      Go ahead.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Wait a minute.











                                                             
1263

         1       This is on the resolution.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  He

         3       wants to speak on the resolution.  Okay.  The

         4       resolution is not adopted.  We will call it

         5       again.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I'm just going

         7       to explain my vote.  I'm going to vote against

         8       this resolution.  We all know that the military

         9       is going to be cut back for very good reasons,

        10       and we don't need the same military as we needed

        11       at the height of the Cold War.  And obviously,

        12       you can't cut back the military without actually

        13       cutting some of the bases and some of the men

        14       and women and some of the equipment that have

        15       been part of the military, and that's going to

        16       happen in every state.

        17                      Now, I guess we could say, "Well,

        18       we think it ought to be done because all of us

        19       are against unnecessary government spending, but

        20       do it in other states."  Well, I guess you could

        21       take that position; or if there are some people

        22       here who are brilliant military strategists and

        23       could say, "Well, I can show you that this base











                                                             
1264

         1       is the base that ought to remain open," maybe

         2       I'll be convinced.

         3                      But what I would like to hear as

         4       a resolution which I think would be helpful and

         5       what I would like to see, maybe, is an amendment

         6       to the budget.  I am concerned about losing jobs

         7       in this state.  There are people involved.  And

         8       to send a resolution, "Please don't close this

         9       base," which probably isn't going to do any good

        10       anyhow, is not the way to help these people.  I

        11       would like to see a program of economic

        12       conversion.  I have put a bill in on it.  I

        13       would like to see a resolution saying that we

        14       have an obligation to the Rome community and to

        15       the people who work at this base, and I would

        16       like to see a program of retraining.  I would

        17       like to see a program of help to that community

        18       to see that that base is used to create

        19       non-military jobs.  That's the approach, I

        20       think, that we ought to take.

        21                      It may make us feel good.  It's

        22       like the flag resolution, makes maybe good press

        23       releases, but I question what it really does.











                                                             
1265

         1       And I think it is somewhat inconsistent to call

         2       for a reduction in the federal budget, to say

         3       that the military has got to be cut back, and at

         4       the same time when it's a base in your home

         5       town, a base in your back yard, you say, well,

         6       this base can't be closed.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         8       Hoffmann.

         9                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  On the

        10       resolution.  Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      I agree with some of the things

        12       that my colleague Senator Leichter said, and I

        13       would agree with more of them if, in fact, this

        14       was a level playing field and if this was a

        15       process in which the so-called peace dividend

        16       was being analyzed evenly across the nation and

        17       without politics, without favoritism.

        18                      That, however, does not appear to

        19       be the case, and I rise to correct a few of the

        20       misconceptions that perhaps Senator Leichter may

        21       have because he is not as familiar with the

        22       issue around Griffiss Air Force base as Senator

        23       Sears, who has represented that area for many











                                                             
1266

         1       years, and I are, after I represented it for the

         2       last eight years.

         3                      Let me just share with my

         4       colleague for a moment the simple fact that we

         5       are partners with the United States Air Force in

         6       a number of missions at Griffiss Air Force Base

         7       as a result of their invitation.  We rose, as a

         8       state, to the call to become partners in a

         9       technology transfer experiment by which we, as

        10       taxpayers of this state, committed the tens of

        11       millions of dollars to photonics and other high

        12       tech research that has benefited the military as

        13       well as the academic and the scientific

        14       community throughout upstate New York, and in

        15       fact, the nation, if not the world.

        16                      Having followed the suggestions

        17       of the Air Force to join shoulder to shoulder

        18       with them in entering a new era where military

        19       and nonmilitary activities would take place on

        20       the same base, we can rightly feel offended now

        21       at suddenly finding the rug about to be pulled

        22       out from underneath our feet.

        23                      This discussion, Senator











                                                             
1267

         1       Leichter, is not limited to whether or not B52

         2       bombers are no longer necessary in our national

         3       defense.  And, in fact, the Base Closure

         4       Preliminary Report does not even say that B52

         5       bombers are no longer necessary.  Under the

         6       preliminary plan put forth by the Pentagon, the

         7       B52s would not be eliminated.  They would be

         8       simply moved further into the country to another

         9       military base.

        10                      So if, in fact, we are now going

        11       to become forced to re-examine our contractual

        12       relationship with the Air Force, our scientific

        13       relationship with the Air Force, and our

        14       involvement with that community, we will all

        15       have to become military experts in the process.

        16       But we will try to do it in such a way that we

        17       protect jobs and we recognize the future of our

        18       military is a changing system of defense.

        19                      We are not trying to protect some

        20       archaic form of military patriotism which is

        21       solely symbolic, as you might like to believe.

        22       This is a very real military and economic

        23       urgency.  This resolution is well-founded and is











                                                             
1268

         1       greatly needed.

         2                      And I would hope that Senator

         3       Leichter and all of the rest of the members of

         4       this chamber would join in unanimously endorsing

         5       what Senator Sears and I hope the Congress of

         6       the United States and the Base Closure

         7       Commission and our President will consider in a

         8       more earnest way than has been considered by the

         9       preliminary Air Force Advisory Panel that put

        10       this ridiculous list together.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        12       Sears.

        13                      SENATOR SEARS:  Very briefly on

        14       the resolution.

        15                      Mr. President.  You know, there

        16       are some who believe in a strong defense of this

        17       country and there are others who don't.  Those

        18       have you who read the first part of the

        19       resolution, it says that Griffiss Air Force Base

        20       stands proudly memorializing the first airman to

        21       lose his life in the line of duty in Europe

        22       during World War II, Colonel Townsend E.

        23       Griffiss.











                                                             
1269

         1                      This air base has been on the

         2       flight line for fifty-one years, proudly and

         3       steadfastly assisting in the defense efforts of

         4       the United States of America to keep our nation

         5       free and retain its status as leader of the free

         6       world.  That is my main concern with this

         7       resolution.

         8                      Jobs cannot -- can in the future

         9       always be replaced somehow or other.  Our area

        10       has come back many, many times in its history

        11       and we will again, regardless of what the

        12       realignment commission does.  But we should have

        13       learned the lesson at Pearl harbor.  And with

        14       certain foreign countries today buying every

        15       weapon that they can get their hands on, if you

        16       think that is a good idea, to downsize our

        17       military throughout this country, then you've

        18       got another thought coming.

        19                      I, for one, disagree with

        20       downsizing our military might.  Because, just

        21       remember, there can be and might be another

        22       Pearl Harbor.

        23                      I move the resolution.











                                                             
1270

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I hadn't planned

         5       to speak because I thought Senator Hoffmann and

         6       others had covered it; but after that speech,

         7       I've got to.  I'm going to support the

         8       resolution but not because of anything Senator

         9       Sears said.  I don't want anybody to think that

        10       I don't support downsizing the military, but

        11       there is a very important concept here.

        12                      When I first got into office, I

        13       got a call from a postal employee who wanted a

        14       promotion in the Post Office Department, and he

        15       said he needed a letter from me.  And I said,

        16       "Wait a minute.  I don't know how good you

        17       are.  I don't know who the other people are.

        18       How can I give you a letter?"

        19                      He said, "Well, I need the letter

        20       because everybody else has a letter from their

        21       Senator."  And he says, "That's how you level

        22       the playing field."

        23                      Well, I don't know what's going











                                                             
1271

         1       to happen in Washington, but I think we have to

         2       level the playing field.  Have all the

         3       legislatures of all these states pass all these

         4       resolutions saying, "Close everybody else except

         5       us," and then we've got a level playing field.

         6       Then the commission and everybody will do what

         7       is right, but at least it's a level playing

         8       field.

         9                      God forbid they took a look and

        10       they said, "My God, we've got resolutions from

        11       every state for all the places except for

        12       Griffiss, so we'll close that one because there

        13       is no resolution."  Now, we wouldn't want that

        14       to happen.

        15                      So, Senator, I'm going to vote

        16       for it.  I think that that leveling of playing

        17       field argument by Senator Hoffmann hit me right

        18       here, and I'm going to support you on that.  But

        19       please, in my vote, disassociate me from the

        20       remarks that want to continue to arm this

        21       country.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        23       Connor.











                                                             
1272

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President,

         2       my first reaction to this resolution was that I

         3       thought I might oppose it.  Because, you know,

         4       it's fine to say cut back on the military

         5       expenditures, reconfigure the military to meet

         6       today's threats, not the threats of a decade

         7       ago, and then say but not in my back yard.

         8                      But I think, as Senator Gold

         9       pointed out, it's important that this

        10       Legislature go on record as wanting New York

        11       treated fairly.

        12                      Let me say -- but, again, what

        13       Senator Sears said, the base is 51 years old.  I

        14       had a Navy base in my district that is 151,

        15       that's 200 years old, the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

        16       How many employees do you have? That had 55,000

        17       civilian employees in one neighborhood in

        18       Brooklyn.  That got closed 20 or 30 years ago.

        19       It wreaked economic havoc on the neighborhood.

        20       It wreaked economic havoc on Brooklyn and New

        21       York City.  We survived.

        22                      I had a Navy base in my district

        23       until you redrew my district in Stapleton.











                                                             
1273

         1       Frankly, on that one, I think I might have

         2       gotten caught up a number of years ago when they

         3       were going to open it in a little bit of home

         4       town rah-rah enthusiasm.  Because it costs the

         5       city tens of millions of dollars to fix up

         6       piers, once the problem with nuclear and not

         7       nuclear weapons was eliminated.  They don't have

         8       nuclear weapons there in Stapleton.  They based

         9       the Surface Action Task Force there.  Three

        10       years later, they want to close it.

        11                      Now, between 200-year-old bases

        12       and 3-year-old bases, I can think of a good

        13       reason why you'd want to keep a 200-year-old

        14       base open and an even better reason why, having

        15       spent all this money on a brand new thing three

        16       years ago, you might want to keep it open.

        17                      Fifty years?  Well, I don't

        18       know.  Maybe it's ready to retire, Senator

        19       Sears.  The fact is it's not old enough to be

        20       historic, and it's not quite young enough to

        21       say, "Gee, it's a brand new facility; how can we

        22       waste it?" So I don't think that argument goes

        23       anywhere, Senator Sears.











                                                             
1274

         1                      The fact is, though, I want to

         2       see New York treated on the same footing and as

         3       fairly as any other state.  But we do have to -

         4       I mean it would be foolish.  Senator Sears

         5       thinks we should be armed and prepared to

         6       refight Pearl Harbor.  I think the reason there

         7       was a Pearl Harbor is because we were armed and

         8       prepared in 1941 to fight Manila Bay, and we

         9       can't afford to be armed and prepared to fight

        10       the last war or three wars ago or 50 years ago.

        11                      The United States has to have its

        12       military very strong and prepared to meet the

        13       challenges of the future not to refight the old

        14       wars that are long since gone.  So I will

        15       support this but not with any sense that I'm

        16       against the federal government redoing the

        17       military, making it more efficient, saving money

        18       yet keeping enough strength there to meet any

        19       possible future challenges.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Nozzolio.

        22                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr.

        23       President.  On the resolution.











                                                             
1275

         1                      Mr. President, my colleagues.  I

         2       rise in support of the resolution and compliment

         3       its sponsors.  Unlike the last speaker, though,

         4       I believe that this process is a process that

         5       should be scrutinized fully, that the Pentagon

         6       has been playing petty Pentagon politics with

         7       much of the base closures throughout our recent

         8       history, and that's the purpose that the Base

         9       Realignment and Closure Commission was

        10       formed in the first place, that we want

        11       these decisions to be made on the merits on

        12       behalf of the taxpayers; and that I am sure

        13       that, as the sponsors of this resolution are

        14       sure, that Griffiss would rise on its

        15       merits.

        16                      I represent, Mr. President and my

        17       colleagues, a base in the Central Finger Lakes

        18       area that is not getting that type of review.  I

        19       represent the Seneca Army Depot, a depot that

        20       employs a thousand civilian employees which,

        21       because of the nature of our economy, having

        22       that loss would certainly be a devastating loss

        23       to our economy.











                                                             
1276

         1                      But the people at the Seneca Army

         2       Depot are saying, very simply, that they wish

         3       they had the luxury of having that base on the

         4       BRCC list.  If that Seneca Army Depot was

         5       considered under the procedures listed by BRCC,

         6       we're confident that the Pentagon would consider

         7        -- would continue the operation of that

         8       institution.  Unfortunately, though, the

         9       Pentagon has refused to make these decisions, at

        10       least in the case of Seneca on its merits.

        11                      Seneca is a depot that has gotten

        12       high grades, is a depot that would in effect

        13       meet the tests of BRCC.  We are as confident as

        14       Senator Sears and Senator Hoffmann are that

        15       Griffiss will meet the tests of BRCC.  I only

        16       wish that the Pentagon had placed the Seneca

        17       Army Depot on the BRCC list so we could face

        18       that same type of review on behalf of our

        19       taxpayers.

        20                      I support the resolution, Mr.

        21       Speaker, and applaud its sponsors.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        23       resolution.  All those in favor say aye.











                                                             
1277

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Those opposed nay.

         3                      (Response of "Nay." )

         4                      The resolution is adopted.

         5                      Senator Present.

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         7       Will you recognize Senator Volker, please.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I

         9       certainly will.

        10                      Senator Volker.

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        12       Yesterday, we adopted a resolution, Senate 810,

        13       commending three winners of the Department of

        14       Treasury, United States Savings Bond Division,

        15       National Poster Contest awards.  The three

        16       winners are here today.  They were unable to

        17       here yesterday, and I would just like to

        18       announce their names, and they are up in the

        19       gallery to the left.

        20                      The first place winner was

        21       William R. Tuttle of Hamburg, which happens to

        22       be in my district.  Second place winner was

        23       Brian K. Moore of Rochester, which is Senator











                                                             
1278

         1       Jones' and Senator Daly's district.  And the

         2       third place winner, Geren Horsley of Bellport,

         3       New York, which is in Senator Trunzo's

         4       district.

         5                      And I would just like to say we

         6       presented them with the resolution today and

         7       congratulate them on their achievement and wish

         8       them the best of luck in Albany and in the

         9       future.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It is

        11       my understanding they are in the gallery.  Is

        12       that correct, Senator Volker?

        13                      To the awardees and winners,

        14       we're proud to have you with us here.

        15       Congratulations.  We passed a resolution

        16       honoring you yesterday.  And we wish you well.

        17                      (Applause.)

        18                      Motions and resolutions.

        19                      We have some substitutions.

        20       Shall we go forward with those, Senator

        21       Present?

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6 of











                                                             
1279

         1       today's calendar, Senator Marchi moves to

         2       discharge the Committee on Environmental

         3       Conservation from Assembly Bill Number 3778 and

         4       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

         5       250.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         7       Substitution is ordered.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 9,

         9       Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Elections from Assembly Bill Number

        11       4921 and substitute it for the identical

        12       Calendar Number 223.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        14       Substitution is ordered.

        15                      Senator Present.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Recognize

        17       Senator Leichter, please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        21       President.  I was unavoidably out of the chamber

        22       yesterday when Calendar 176 was voted on in a

        23       slow roll call.  If I had been here, I would











                                                             
1280

         1       have voted in the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       Journal will so indicate, that if you were here

         4       you would have voted in the negative.

         5                      Senator Present.

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         7       May we take up the non-controversial calendar.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         9       Secretary will read, non-controversial.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 14,

        11       Calendar Number 138, by Senator Saland, Senate

        12       Bill Number 2363A, an act to amend the Social

        13       Services Law and the Public Health Law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
1281

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       177, by Senator Hannon.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         5       that bill aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       202, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

         8       1704, an act to amend the Education Law.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        11       that bill aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       205, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 1361,

        14       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        15       relation to authorizing senior citizens to renew

        16       motor vehicle registrations annually.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
1282

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       206, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2272,

         6       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

         7       relation to real property tax exemption.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       207, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2609,

        20       an act to amend Chapter 208 of the Laws of 1992.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
1283

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       211, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 86A,

        10       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        11       relation to the Child Assistance Program.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       213, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number











                                                             
1284

         1       2738, Social Services Law, in relation to

         2       amounts for which the state and social services

         3       districts are responsible.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      Senator Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        16       Let's take the controversial calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        18       Controversial calendar.

        19                      Secretary will read it.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 16,

        21       Calendar Number 177, by Senator Hannon, Senate

        22       Bill Number 644, an act to amend the Emergency

        23       Tenant Protection Act of 1974.











                                                             
1285

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Explanation.  Senator Hannon.

         4                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.  This bill would amend the laws in

         6       regard to conversion for co-ops and condominiums

         7       so as to effect the three counties of the state

         8       that are under the Emergency Tenant Protection

         9       Act.  Those are three suburban counties which

        10       would be Westchester, Nassau and Rockland.

        11                      What the bill would do would be

        12       to make a change so that the law in those

        13       suburban counties would be the same as it now is

        14       for the city of New York.  For whatever reason

        15       this law now has the effect of rendering

        16       virtually as abandoned certain units in

        17       converted buildings in those three counties, for

        18       the reason that the law essentially guarantees

        19       that anybody who is a tenant can remain as a

        20       tenant forever.

        21                      In contrast to that, in the city

        22       of New York, when a tenant is in a building in a

        23       non-eviction plan at the time of conversion they











                                                             
1286

         1       are, quite rightfully, given that protection.

         2       They have decided not to buy.  It is a

         3       non-eviction plan, and they should be, so as

         4       long as they pay their rent, able to stay

         5       there.  In the suburbs, whether they are there

         6       at the time of conversion or whether five years

         7       down the road after somebody has brought that

         8       unit and perhaps they get transferred to another

         9       state for a while and decide to rent it, that

        10       subsequent tenant could then remain forever,

        11       somewhat of an anomaly, and this is what the

        12       bill would straighten out.

        13                      In so doing, it solves the

        14       purpose of helping affordable housing in those

        15       areas.  Because, at present, those units stand

        16       empty.  Banks won't lend to buyers who want to

        17       purchase those units.  Consequently, if somebody

        18       has one of those units and gets a job in

        19       California -- and frankly, we have lost a lot of

        20       jobs in the area so it's happened more than once

        21        -- they are going to have to leave that unit

        22       empty.

        23                      What we are trying to do is move











                                                             
1287

         1       things along here.  It has little to do with a

         2       lot of the arguments that have been thrown up by

         3       people who would otherwise use this as a smoke

         4       screen for the traditional landlord/tenant

         5       battles.

         6                      And as an illustration of that,

         7       from last year's memo in opposition by the New

         8       York State Tenant and Neighborhood Coalition, I

         9       quote, "Thousands of apartments are sitting

        10       vacant in buildings converted to co-ops or

        11       condo's in Westchester, Rockland and Nassau."

        12       And why, do they say?  They say, "Because

        13       conversion sponsors won't drop sales prices

        14       enough to sell these units in today's weak

        15       market, and they refuse to rent them."

        16                      Well, that's baloney.  The reason

        17       they can't sell them is they can't get

        18       financing.  There's ads in the papers, in the

        19       New York Times and the other metropolitan area

        20       papers that take the ads in the banks that

        21       exclude these types of buildings.

        22                      All we're trying to do is let

        23       them go back on the market.  It would thus











                                                             
1288

         1       conform the law in the suburbs to what now

         2       exists in New York City.

         3                      Mr. President.  I move the bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Espada.

         6                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Yes.  This may

         7       come as a revelation to some, but I think the

         8       protections afforded to New York City vis-a-vis

         9       the counties in question, Rockland County,

        10       Westchester County, Nassau County, is not the

        11       issue here.  The issue is whether or not these

        12       protections which were clearly articulated that

        13       would really look out for tenants and really

        14       protect them against the kind of profiteering

        15       that really is the genesis of the problem.

        16                      We have apartments that were once

        17       affordable being converted on a speculative

        18       manner for profit.  Warehoused units then

        19       result, and the fruits of speculation that turn

        20       sour are there now to be freed up for whom? For

        21       people in need of housing? No, I say not.  If,

        22       indeed, it were for the people who need quality

        23       and affordable housing, we would continue to











                                                             
1289

         1       keep the protection in full force and, indeed,

         2       push these landlords on to rent to people.  If

         3       there is a shortage of renters or people seeking

         4       these kinds of dwellings in these counties, that

         5       would come as a great surprise.

         6                      But, indeed, a surprise that

         7       could be rectified, because I would certainly

         8       volunteer many of the homeless and many of the

         9       people in my district in need of such to go up

        10       to these three counties in search of affordable

        11       and quality housing.

        12                      So I say that the best way to

        13       preserve quality housing is to keep this

        14       protection intact, sir.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Slow roll call.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Slow

        21       roll call.  Ring the bell.  There were five.  I

        22       saw five stand up.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush,











                                                             
1290

         1       excused.  Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Connor.

         4                      SENATOR CONNOR:  No.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         6                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

         8                      SENATOR DALY:  Yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       DeFrancisco.

        11                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Farley.

        18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I vote aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber.

        20                      SENATOR GALIBER:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator











                                                             
1291

         1       Gonzalez.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator Goodman.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      Senator Halperin.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Senator Hannon.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      Senator Hoffmann.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Senator Holland.

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        14                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

        16                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl.

        18                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        20                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

        22                      (There was no response. )

        23                      Senator LaValle.











                                                             
1292

         1                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         5                      SENATOR LEVY: Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino.

        13                      (Indicating "Aye." )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.  Senator

        15       Markowitz.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Masiello.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Senator Mega.

        20                      SENATOR MEGA:  Yes.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        22                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator











                                                             
1293

         1       Montgomery.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator Nolan.

         4                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         6       Nozzolio.

         7                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Ohrenstein.

        10                      (Indicating "Nay." )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  No.  Senator

        12       Onorato.

        13                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        15       Oppenheimer.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Padavan.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.











                                                             
1294

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

         3                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Santiago.

         6                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      Senator Seward.

        10                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sheffer.

        12                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      Senator Smith.

        16                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon,

        18       excused.  Senator Spano.

        19                      SENATOR SPANO:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        21       Stachowski.

        22                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator











                                                             
1295

         1       Stafford.

         2                      SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       Stavisky.

         5                      (There was no response. )

         6                      Senator Trunzo.

         7                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

         9                      SENATOR TULLY:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        11                      SENATOR VELELLA:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        15                      (There was no response. )

        16                      Senator Wright.

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Absentees.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        21                      SENATOR ESPADA:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gonzalez.

        23                      (There was no response. )











                                                             
1296

         1                      Senator Goodman.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator Halperin.

         4                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  No.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

         7       I would like to explain my vote.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Hannon to explain his vote.

        10                      SENATOR HANNON:  Senator Espada,

        11       I believe, repeated what is basically a myth

        12       about this bill in regard to what is happening

        13       with these units and whether or not they are

        14       being warehoused.

        15                      Anybody who is a serious student

        16       of the real estate market will never encounter

        17       such a result in looking at what has happened

        18       like that as a result of this bill.  When I look

        19       at a report from the Westchester Reporter

        20       Dispatch last February, they noted that they had

        21       over 3,000 vacant apartments in Westchester

        22       because of the effects of this law.

        23                      If we were to analyze the cost to











                                                             
1297

         1       this state of any of its housing programs and

         2       did compute how much it would be to come up with

         3       3,000 apartments, we would be near the hundreds

         4       of millions.  Nobody, not one tenant has ever

         5       complained about this proposal.

         6                      A negative vote on this bill

         7       jeopardizes not only the real estate market but

         8       also the entire fabric of how we come up with

         9       affordable housing.  We can do more by letting

        10       the market economy work and by simply allowing

        11       tenants the very protections that they have in

        12       New York City if we were to let this bill go.

        13                      Mr. President, I vote aye.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        15       Hannon is in the affirmative.

        16                      Continue the roll.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann.

        18                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

        20                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Markowitz.

        23                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Yes.











                                                             
1298

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         2       Masiello.

         3                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Montgomery.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         8       Oppenheimer.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.

        11                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears.

        13                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        17       Stavisky.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Senator Waldon.

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  No.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Results.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35, nays











                                                             
1299

         1       22.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       202, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

         6       1704.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         9       Explanation, Senator Johnson.

        10                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.

        11       This bill would modify the Education Law to

        12       provide that a regulation shall be established

        13       requiring the recitation of the Pledge of

        14       Allegiance and the performance of the National

        15       Anthem at all graduation ceremonies of the State

        16       University.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
1300

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I just wanted to

         5       alert the chamber that last year we debated

         6       this, and Senators Connor and Galiber and myself

         7       and Leichter, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Solomon

         8       and Waldon did vote in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        10       Continue the roll.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        12       the negative on Calendar Number 202 are Senators

        13       Connor, Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery,

        14       Ohrenstein, Smith, and Waldon, also Senator

        15       Santiago.  Ayes 48.  Nays 9.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       there being no further announcements or motions

        20       and there being no further business, I move that

        21       we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:30 a.m.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        23       Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at











                                                             
1301

         1       11:00 a.m.

         2                      (Whereupon, at 4:50 p.m., Senate

         3       adjourned. )

         4

         5

         6

         7

         8