Regular Session - March 29, 1993

                                                                 
1717

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                       March 29, 1993

        10                           3:08 p.m.

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        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

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        15

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        17       SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        23











                                                             
1718

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Senators will find their

         4       seats.

         5                      If you will please rise with me

         6       for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Today,

        10       in the absence of visiting clergy, we will bow

        11       our heads for a moment of silence.

        12                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        13       silence. )

        14                      Secretary will begin by reading

        15       the journal.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        17       Sunday, March 28.  The Senate met pursuant to

        18       adjournment.  Senator Farley in the chair upon

        19       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        20       Journal of Saturday, March 27, was read and

        21       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hearing

        23       no objection, the Journal will stand approved as











                                                             
1719

         1       read.

         2                      The order of business:

         3                      Presentation of petitions.

         4                      Messages from the Assembly.

         5                      Messages from the Governor.

         6                      Reports of standing committees.

         7                      Reports of select committees.

         8                      Communications and reports from

         9       state officers.

        10                      Motions and resolutions.

        11                      Senator Present.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        13       On behalf of Senator Marino, I offer up the

        14       following privileged resolution and ask that it

        15       be read.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       entire resolution, Senator?

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        20       Secretary will read Senator Marino's resolution.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        22       Resolution, by Senators Marino, Hannon, Daly and

        23       all members of the Senate, mourning the death of











                                                             
1720

         1       Thornton G. Edwards, distinguished citizen and

         2       philanthropist.

         3                      Whereas, it is the custom of this

         4       legislative body to mourn publicly the death of

         5       prominent citizens of the state of New York

         6       whose life work and civic endeavor served to

         7       enhance the reputation of the state.

         8                      Thornton G. Edwards, an assistant

         9       counsel to three New York State Senate Majority

        10       Leaders, passed away at his retirement home in

        11       Boca Raton, Florida, at the age of 66.

        12                      Thornton G. Edwards distinguished

        13       himself by his sincere dedication and

        14       substantial contribution to the well welfare of

        15       his community.

        16                      Thornton G. Edwards was a unique

        17       public servant who applied his keen intellect

        18       and insight to a wide range of complex public

        19       policy issues.

        20                      Thornton Edwards' spirit of

        21       humanity, of devotion to the good of all,

        22       carried over into all fields of enterprise.

        23                      Born in Manchester, New











                                                             
1721

         1       Hampshire, Thornton Edwards was an assistant

         2       counsel to former Senate Majority Leader Earl

         3       Brydges, when he drafted the legislation

         4       creating the State of New York Mortgage Agency

         5       in 1970; he was appointed by former Governor

         6       Nelson Rockefeller as the agency's first

         7       chairman later that year and remained in that

         8       capacity until 1974.

         9                      Thornton Edwards also served from

        10       1983 to 1992 as an assistant counsel to the

        11       former Senate Majority Leader Warren M. Anderson

        12       and to current Majority Leader, Ralph J. Marino.

        13                      A 1949 graduate of Harvard Law

        14       School, Thornton Edwards graduated from Phillips

        15       Exeter Academy and attended Harvard University

        16       before receiving his Bachelor of Science in

        17       Naval Science from Tufts College in 1945; he was

        18       an officer in the United States Naval Reserve in

        19       1945-46 and attended the Naval Intelligence

        20       School in 1952.

        21                      Admitted to the bar in 1949,

        22       Thornton Edwards began his legal career with

        23       Root, Ballantine, Harlan, Bushby and Palmer and











                                                             
1722

         1       later became an associate and partner in the

         2       firm of Hodgson, Russ, Andrews, Woods and

         3       Goodyear in Buffalo, New York; he was a partner

         4       with Sykes, Galloway and Dikeman in New York

         5       City and then a partner in the firm of Willkie,

         6       Farr and Gallagher from 1976 to 1983.

         7                      Thornton Edwards was formerly a

         8       law lecturer at the University of Buffalo, a

         9       member of the Governor's Judicial Nominating

        10       Committee for the First Judicial Department,

        11       counsel to the Erie County Republican Committee

        12       from 1965 to 1970 and a counsel on taxation and

        13       finance matters to the New York State

        14       Constitutional Convention in 1967.

        15                      Thornton Edwards' wealth of

        16       knowledge and experience, thoughtfulness and

        17       persistent determination, made him a natural

        18       leader, and people of all political persuasions

        19       gravitated to him for his advice and counsel; he

        20       was a mentor and a teacher to scores of people

        21       in state government and in the legal

        22       profession.

        23                      Thornton Edwards' commitment to











                                                             
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         1       excellence was renowned and he inspired

         2       competence in others; work and service was his

         3       passion, yet he delighted in a good story and a

         4       moment of laughter; those who knew him learned

         5       to look for the telltale twinkle in his eye,

         6       lurking behind his understated Yankee demeanor;

         7       he always made time for his friends.

         8                      Thornton Edwards loved his family

         9       deeply and is survived by his widow, Phyllis

        10       Edwards of Boca Raton; two daughters, Heather

        11       Edwards and Gale Clement, both of Seattle,

        12       Washington; two sons, Scott and Bret, both of

        13       San Francisco; a stepson, Kurt Wittek, also of

        14       San Francisco; and three grandchildren.

        15                      Now, therefore, be it resolved

        16       that this legislative body pause in its

        17       deliberations to mourn the death of Thornton G.

        18       Edwards, distinguished citizen and

        19       philanthropist; he will be missed by all those

        20       who value intelligence, compassion, and good old

        21       common sense; and

        22                      Be it further resolved, that a

        23       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be











                                                             
1724

         1       transmitted to the family of Thornton G.

         2       Edwards.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         4       Daly on the resolution.

         5                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.  I

         6       had the honor of working very close with Thorn

         7       Edwards for the last 12 years when I served both

         8       as chairman of the Housing Committee and the

         9       Corporations Committee, and Thorn represented

        10       the Majority Leader in both areas.

        11                      Mr. President.  We take as fact

        12       that Thorn Edwards was an exceptionally

        13       competent and knowledgeable counsel.  The record

        14       clearly shows that.  Father of SONYMA, its first

        15       chairman, his service as counsel to three

        16       majority leaders, his accomplishments in private

        17       life.

        18                      What the record does not show,

        19       Mr. President, is Thorn Edwards the man.  Thorn

        20       was a man of no pretentions, a quiet and gentle

        21       man, but firm and truthful both in principle and

        22       in practice, who would not back off when he was

        23       convinced he was right.











                                                             
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         1                      A most enjoyable companion who

         2       loved the fellowship here in Albany, a man who

         3       could laugh at himself, a man who always carried

         4       with him a quick and warm smile and twinkling

         5       eyes.

         6                      It has been said, Mr. President,

         7       that you judge a man best by his friends and the

         8       respect and admiration that they have for him.

         9       By this mark, Thorn Edwards was an exceptionally

        10       successful human being, a most loved and

        11       appreciated human being.

        12                      He is a man I will never forget,

        13       and I am sure a man who will not be forgotten by

        14       many, many others.  To his wife, Phyllis, his

        15       sons and daughters, grandchildren, my sympathy.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        17       Cook.

        18                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.  I

        19       was not as well acquainted with Thorn as Senator

        20       Daly and others, but I simply wanted the record

        21       to indicate that through the years during the

        22       time that I was chairman of the Local Government

        23       Committee that he, on numerous occasions, was so











                                                             
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         1       forthcoming and with cooperation and good advice

         2       and counsel that much of what I have been able

         3       to do through the years is really directly

         4       attributable to Thorn's good help and advice and

         5       counsel.  And this institution and the people of

         6       the state are going to miss him.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         8       Hannon and then Senator Marchi.

         9                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

        10       Today, people in this chamber and of the

        11       Legislature in this state are much poorer

        12       because of Thorn's passing.

        13                      He was a man who was devoted to

        14       public service.  And he had accomplishments in

        15       the private sector; but if he had remained

        16       there, he would be without substantial

        17       improvements in things we do for public

        18       financing, things that touch the very tenor of

        19       the life of so many millions of people in this

        20       state -- housing, water, sewerage.

        21                      He was challenged by the things

        22       that we do in governing this great state; and

        23       through those challenges, he enriched us and he











                                                             
1727

         1       enriched the state by bringing to them a high

         2       sense of craftsmanship, a high sense of duty,

         3       and a high sense of devotion.  He had a

         4       determination that made him a natural leader and

         5       drew to him people of all political persuasions

         6       so that they could gain from him advice and

         7       counsel.

         8                      He had a commitment to excellence

         9       that was renowned and he inspired excellence in

        10       others by gentle questions, by examples.

        11                      And he also had an ability at

        12       very quiet times to have a twinkle in his eye

        13       and to say with some understated words some very

        14       humorous comments about the situation.

        15                      And so, today, I join with the

        16       members of this chamber in conveying our sense

        17       of loss and regrets and sorrow to his widow,

        18       Phyllis, who is with us today, and to his

        19       children, daughters, sons and grandchildren,

        20       that we truly regret his passing.

        21                      And we, as representing some of

        22       the people of this state, were the better for

        23       his service to all of the people.











                                                             
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         1                      Thank you.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Marchi.

         4                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President.

         5       There is a common thread that seems to

         6       underscore all of the speakers that have spoken

         7       of Thorn Edwards.

         8                      My friendship with him goes back

         9       almost a quarter of a century, and all of these

        10       warm personal qualities are the ones that

        11       perhaps have made their biggest impact.  Here

        12       was an individual with an extraordinary range of

        13       command in various disciplines and was so

        14       helpful in a creative way in work that we did

        15       together.  It was just a beneficial experience

        16       to have that as a resource in the Senate.

        17                      And most of us who have had

        18       personal contact with him over the years can

        19       attest to the fact that it was a very positive

        20       thing.  Unprepossessing with a disarming

        21       simplicity, wonderful family person, everything

        22       that you could possibly associate with an

        23       individual who did not evidence any pomp or any











                                                             
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         1       sense of self-aggrandizement, yet at the same

         2       time he contributed so richly to the work we

         3       were doing and to the whole process of

         4       interaction in an institutional sense here in

         5       the Senate.

         6                      So I join my colleagues in this

         7       collective extension of condolences to his

         8       family.  His memory and what he has done for us

         9       will survive many, many years as long as we

        10       continue addressing urgent public matters; and

        11       given also a deep human dimension to all of

        12       them, this will be a very, very positive factor

        13       and certainly inure to his own fine memory that

        14       he has left us with.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Gold.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        18       First of all, who said there wasn't such a thing

        19       as a nice Republican? Of course, there were.

        20                      Thorn really was a lovely

        21       gentleman, and I wanted to throw my two cents

        22       in.  I go back in this place to before the 1967

        23       Constitutional Convention, but I did serve as an











                                                             
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         1       assistant counsel to the Majority Leader there.

         2                      And I have always believed -

         3       funny, when I was in college, I used to fight.

         4       And I think the worst fight I had was against a

         5       farm boy who just fell all over me, and I guess

         6       the best fight I had was against a fellow who

         7       was a middleweight in the Army.  And it was a

         8       delight to deal with Thorn because he was a

         9       pro.  You can always work better with a pro and

        10       somebody who knows what they are doing.

        11                      And as someone who didn't always

        12       agree on every issue, I can tell you that it was

        13       a pleasure having him here.  He loved what he

        14       was doing, and I don't mean that from an

        15       egocentric point of view.  He loved it because

        16       he saw all the goodness that can come out of the

        17       work that we do for other people.

        18                      And what can I tell you? It's a

        19       shame that this passing came so early into the

        20       retirement, but we can't always question those

        21       decisions of God.  All we can do is just feel

        22       kind of lucky that we touched him and he touched

        23       our lives in some way, and certainly we will











                                                             
1731

         1       miss him very much.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Oppenheimer.

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I would

         5       like to just speak for a moment about Thorn's

         6       relationship with myself and the people in our

         7       town.  We came from the same town, Mamaroneck,

         8       and I was friendly with him and with his wife.

         9       Both very lovely people.

        10                      Thorn was just the ultimate

        11       knowledge on the issue of housing, and we often

        12       talked.  Sometimes we went home together, and we

        13       would talk about the problems that confront

        14       Westchester with our lack of affordable housing

        15       and how that has created in our county this

        16       enormous problem of homelessness which I have

        17       spoken about several times on the floor here,

        18       having the highest per capita homeless rate in

        19       the state and very possibly in the country, and

        20       we would talk about how we might change that and

        21       make Westchester a place that was viable for

        22       people of all incomes.

        23                      And I'm going to miss him because











                                                             
1732

         1       he was a gentle and a kind man and such a

         2       knowledgeable man and he was a resource to me,

         3       and I just want to express my very deepest

         4       sympathies to his wife and family.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         6       Stafford.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President.

         8       I was here when Thorn came to work for the

         9       Legislature.  When we talk about a gentleman

        10       like Thorn, you find that usually everybody says

        11       about the same thing is what it all boils down

        12       to.  Because anyone who worked with Thorn always

        13       had his cooperation.  It could be some of the

        14       main problems of the session to get something

        15       worked out, and it was just as if nothing was

        16       going on.  He just gave you his time, and he was

        17       just able to work with people.

        18                      He and I shared many things these

        19       past few years.  And I can only say, Mr.

        20       President, that in this day and age when some of

        21       us get a little frustrated with government, all

        22       we have to do is think of Thorn Edwards.  And

        23       what he wanted to do, as I say, was cooperate,











                                                             
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         1       to help, and to be available for those he was

         2       working with and for.  And he is a real example

         3       of the fine public servant.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Marino.

         6                      SENATOR MARINO:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.  I was deeply saddened, and we were

         8       all, by the untimely death of a good friend,

         9       Thorn Edwards.

        10                      Last time I saw Thorn was in

        11       Florida with his lovely wife, and we met

        12       accidentally, really, in a restaurant.  And

        13       although he wasn't in great health at that time,

        14       he did not complain but was cheerful and looking

        15       forward to relaxing in Florida and enjoying the

        16       rest of his life.

        17                      I think he knew how sick he was

        18       but never let on and just carried on and carried

        19       forward, not wanting to disturb those loved ones

        20       around him because he was that kind of a person,

        21       never wanting to be noticed, but yet being there

        22       whenever he was needed.

        23                      And we here in Albany have needed











                                                             
1734

         1       him and have used his services throughout all

         2       these many years, willingly, and have accepted

         3       those services with great gratitude because they

         4       were given sincerely and given with the kind of

         5       dedication that few public employees have,

         6       dedication to their work that only Thorn Edwards

         7       had.

         8                      He was outstanding in that he

         9       could work long hours on very technical material

        10       and seemed to enjoy it, things that you and I

        11       might shy away from because they were too tough

        12       to understand, too technical, too difficult to

        13       unravel.  Bonding proposal, housing proposal,

        14       Thorn relished in that kind of detail and was

        15       magnificent in how he could simplify the very

        16       complicated and have some real meaning come

        17       forth so that we could all understand it and

        18       apply it to everyday life.  He had that knack

        19       and that ability.

        20                      He was a straight shooter -

        21       Thorn.  Didn't much care about the politics of

        22       an issue.  Cared more about the result and that

        23       the result was fair and equitable and reasonable











                                                             
1735

         1       and something that all of us could live with.

         2                      So he was a pragmatist, and yet

         3       he wanted to do what was right for the people at

         4       all times, and that was important to him, and he

         5       kept to that mode.  And as a result, we're

         6       better off for it because the legislation he

         7       enacted for us or permitted us to enact was very

         8       difficult but yet very fair, always.  And it's

         9       still in being, still helping the people of this

        10       state, and it came out of a brilliant mind, a

        11       very brilliant mind from a good lawyer who knew

        12       what he was doing, one who was tough in

        13       negotiations yet knew where the line was when he

        14       had to compromise.  And when he got to that

        15       line, he did compromise so we could go forward

        16       with our work here in Albany.

        17                      He was a real public servant in

        18       the best sense of the word, a real public

        19       servant, and so we who have taken advantage all

        20       these years of his talent now miss him, and

        21       we're going to miss him as a public servant, as

        22       a good lawyer, as a person who served us well

        23       here in Albany.











                                                             
1736

         1                      But we're also going to miss him

         2       as a person.  Because he was a good person, one

         3       of the best I have ever met and one that was a

         4       joy to be around because he had a kind of funny

         5       sense of humor that stuck through.

         6                      And we are, Phyllis, going to

         7       miss him.  We wish you well.

         8                      Thank you.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        10       resolution, all those in favor say aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Those opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      The resolution is unanimously

        15       adopted by every member of this Legislature.

        16                      Thorn's widow is with us here

        17       today.  And on behalf of the New York State

        18       Senate, and personally, let me just say what a

        19       gentle and beautiful man your husband was.  And

        20       he will always be remembered by this house.  He

        21       will always be remembered for his remarkable

        22       career.  It encompassed a great deal not only in

        23       the executive branch but here in the











                                                             
1737

         1       Legislature.  We will all miss him.

         2                      We wish you well.

         3                      Senator Marino.  Are there any

         4       motions on the floor?

         5                      SENATOR MARINO:  Controversial

         6       bills, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Okay.

         8       Non-controversial, I think he meant.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

        10       Calendar Number 169, by Senator Goodman, Senate

        11       Bill Number 1257A, an act to amend the Alcoholic

        12       Beverage Control Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
1738

         1       214, by Senator Holland.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay that aside

         3       for the day.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         5       aside for today.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       220, by member of the Assembly Koppell, Assembly

         8       Bill Number 813A, an act to amend the Election

         9       Law, in relation to information required on

        10       voter registration forms.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       264, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 2377,

        23       an act to amend the Family Court Act.











                                                             
1739

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       265, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 2378,

        13       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        14       relation to persons required to report cases of

        15       suspected child abuse.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.











                                                             
1740

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       270, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

         5       361A, an act to amend the Family Court Act.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.  Nays

        14       1.  Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the

        15       negative.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       281, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number

        20       2507, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        21       Law, in relation to authorizing the issuance of

        22       distinctive license plates.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read











                                                             
1741

         1       the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       282, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2640,

        12       an act to amend the Transportation Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.











                                                             
1742

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         2       Libous.

         3                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.  Could I have unanimous consent to be

         5       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 220.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  220,

         7       Senator Libous will be in the negative without

         8       objection.

         9                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       283, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

        12       2999, Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to

        13       vehicle inspections.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
1743

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       284, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 400,

         3       an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

         4       to computation of the operating aids base.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

         6       is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk,

         7       and you can read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.  Nays

        14       1.  Senator Velella recorded in the negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      This next bill we're going to

        18       have to lay aside for a moment because there's a

        19       substitution coming.  We laid aside 285.

        20       Senator Present, is it okay?

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       286, by Senator Padavan.

        23                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Lay it











                                                             
1744

         1       aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       289, by Senator Cook.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         8       that bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       291, by Senator Padavan.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Padavan

        12       said we could lay it aside for the day.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        14       aside.

        15                      Senator Padavan?

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside

        17       for the day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  For the

        19       day?

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Okay.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       292, by member of the Assembly Friedman,











                                                             
1745

         1       Assembly Bill Number 4523, an act to amend

         2       Chapter 499 of the Laws of 1991.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         8       the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       293, by member of the Assembly Grannis, Assembly

        15       Bill Number 5733, an act to provide permanent

        16       installation of outdoor fixed single-user pay

        17       toilet facilities.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
1746

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  295, by Senator

         6       Skelos, Senate Bill Number 621, General

         7       Municipal Law, in relation to volunteer fire

         8       fighter service award program.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  297, by Senator

        20       LaValle, Senate Bill Number 1428, an act to

        21       amend the General Municipal Law, permitting

        22       counties, towns, and villages to distribute fuel

        23       at cost.











                                                             
1747

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       298, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 155,

        13       an act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters

        14       Benefit Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
1748

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       299, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

         4       18 -

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator Galiber

         6       asked me to lay that bill aside for the day,

         7       which I will.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         9       aside for the day.

        10                      Senator Present, that's the first

        11       time through.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        13       Can we take up the controversial calendar,

        14       please.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yes,

        16       sir.  Controversial.

        17                      Senator Present, may we lay aside

        18       that first bill.  We're waiting for a

        19       substitution that is coming over, and it isn't

        20       here as yet.  So 285 will be laid aside

        21       temporarily.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

        23       Calendar Number 286, by Senator Padavan, Senate











                                                             
1749

         1       Bill Number 3248, an act to amend the Education

         2       Law.

         3                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         5       Explanation has been asked for, for 286.

         6                      Senator Padavan.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.  This bill, which passed last year

         9       and is supported by the State Education

        10       Department, would statutize the retirement that

        11       the five big cities would be required to

        12       appropriate a share of their budget to education

        13       based on one of two calculations as specified on

        14       page 2 of the bill.

        15                      In one case, the city would be

        16       required to provide the city school district's

        17       proportioned share of the entire city budget in

        18       the three prior fiscal school years, meaning

        19       that it should not vary from those percentages;

        20       or the school district's prior year

        21       proportionate share of the prior year's citywide

        22       budget adjusted for any growth or decline in the

        23       student enrollment since the prior year.











                                                             
1750

         1                      Additionally, the bill requires

         2       that these proportionate shares exclude state

         3       aid to education as an add to the total.  In

         4       effect, it is a maintenance of effort.  It

         5       ensures that these big five school districts

         6       will not diminish their proportionate share of

         7       dollars to educate as it relates to the overall

         8       budget, using the prior three years as the

         9       base.

        10                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Stachowski.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Will Senator

        15       Padavan yield to a question?

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yes, he

        18       will.

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator,

        20       don't most city school districts now have a

        21       process where their council has the opportunity

        22       to make sure that the city's contribution will

        23       be maintained or increased year after year? And











                                                             
1751

         1       after all, we know -- at least in Buffalo, and I

         2       assume it's the same in the other cities -- that

         3       those very councilmen and council people at

         4       large -- councilmen and -women, I should say,

         5       tell the people in their districts that they are

         6       fully in support of schools, and that they will

         7       do everything they can for education; and, yet,

         8       to this date, most of them do absolutely nothing

         9       in changing the mayor's -- the amount of money

        10       that he puts into education.  By that I mean, in

        11       case I lost you by rambling a bit, is that they

        12       have the opportunity to put more money in

        13       themselves, the council does; and, yet, they

        14       don't do that.  And so they, along with the

        15       local Boards of Education, look for us to

        16       mandate that by this bill in what would be a

        17       major new state mandate.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I think the

        19       answer to your question is yes.

        20                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I thought

        21       so, too.  That's why I asked it in that

        22       fashion.

        23                      I don't have any other -- on the











                                                             
1752

         1       bill, Mr. President.  On the bill.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

         3       bill.  Senator Stachowski.

         4                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I think the

         5       bill is a great bill to get money into education

         6       and to make sure that the localities match the

         7       money or at least continue to give the amount of

         8       money that they gave previously to education.

         9       And in the case for myself, as in Buffalo, where

        10       it seems like the city's contribution goes down

        11       year after year, this bill would be a way of

        12       stopping that from happening, even as the people

        13       are complaining that education doesn't get

        14       enough funding, even though we in the state

        15       continue to increase the funding every year that

        16       we give to Buffalo.

        17                      However, they do have a Common

        18       Council that it's their job to do something

        19       about that in the budget deliberation, and they

        20       choose not to do it.  And between they and the

        21       mayor -- and they're the local source of

        22       government -- if they choose not to do it, there

        23       must be a reason.











                                                             
1753

         1                      And apparently, the people that

         2       elect those local elected officials must agree

         3       with what they're doing is right because they

         4       continually re-elect them, even though those

         5       same people come to Albany and say, "You're not

         6       putting enough money into education."

         7                      My problem with the bill, and

         8       although I admit it's a great bill, is that,

         9       first of all, I don't feel that I'm here to do

        10       the job of the Common Council people that are

        11       elected to do that; and, secondly, at a time

        12       when every local form of government is running

        13       down here saying, "Please, no new mandates," we

        14       come along with a bill that would be probably

        15       the largest mandate we could give them, a bill

        16       that would absolutely have the effect of

        17       increasing local taxes, if at all possible, if

        18       they haven't hit their taxing limit -- which I

        19       know Buffalo hasn't, but they're close -- and a

        20       bill that would be seeing nothing else -- all

        21       the people when their taxes went up, the local

        22       government officials would say, "Well, we didn't

        23       want to raise your taxes; they, in Albany, made











                                                             
1754

         1       us do it."

         2                      And once again, it would be,

         3       "You guys do what we should be doing, and you

         4       people do it so we don't get the blame."  And in

         5       a time when we're looking to have no further

         6       mandates is the main reason and the only reason

         7       I can't support this bill.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        10       Leichter.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        12       President.  Will Senator Padavan yield?

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I'm

        15       sure he will.  Senator Padavan, are you yielding

        16       to Senator Leichter?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        19       Padavan, I apologize because I just came in and

        20       I may have missed some of the debate and some

        21       points that were made.  But let me ask you, if

        22       you will yield, please, what happens if there's

        23       a precipitous decline in the number of students











                                                             
1755

         1       in that district?

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.  As a

         3       matter of fact, it is specified in here.  Either

         4       an increase or a decline can be factored in by

         5       the provisions on the bill.  It's on page 2 in

         6       the middle.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, do

         8       you also take account of the fact that, for

         9       whatever reason, the state aid which the cities

        10       get may decline precipitously?

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The bill

        12       relates to the percentages of the total budget

        13       in the prior three years, excluding state aid.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, maybe my

        15       question really should be, suppose suddenly we

        16       become very flush up here.  We're able to

        17       provide a great deal more of aid.  And I think

        18       Senator Stachowski made some very valid points.

        19       The Common Council and the Mayor in the city of

        20       Buffalo decide, well, we're getting this

        21       additional amount of aid from the state of New

        22       York, we don't need...

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator











                                                             
1756

         1       Leichter, try to speak into your microphone.  I

         2       know it's difficult -

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  But

         5       we're all having trouble hearing you.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I'm sorry.

         7       And as a result of this very substantial

         8       increase in state aid, maybe that increase comes

         9       because of some of the court actions, and they

        10       force the Legislature and the state to change

        11       some of its educational support.  Now, there is

        12       more money, and the localities decide that it's

        13       not necessary to maintain that same amount of

        14       local spending which is mandated by your bill.

        15       How do you answer that?

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, I only

        17       answer it by looking back over a period of years

        18       and saying to you, simply and directly, that's

        19       not been the case.  We are lobbied certainly by

        20       parents, teachers, educators and local

        21       governments year after year to increase aid to

        22       education.

        23                      For valid reasons.  Look at the











                                                             
1757

         1       city of New York.  This past year, their student

         2       population increased over 22,000; over the last

         3       three years over 50,000.  It's inconceivable to

         4       me that even if we were -- and hopefully we will

         5       be able to increase aid this year, which we have

         6       not been able to do the last couple years or

         7       so.  Even if we were, it would not meet those

         8       obvious needs in terms of not only increases of

         9       numbers of children to be educated but the

        10       associated costs thereto.

        11                      Therefore, your question is

        12       somewhat academic.  As a practical matter, none

        13       of these five cities have been in a position

        14       that we have allowed them to be, namely, giving

        15       them significant sums so that they could, in

        16       order to maintain an adequate level of

        17       education, reduce their share.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

        19       suppose one of these cities has an emergency.

        20       Maybe it's a health emergency.  Maybe it's a

        21       public safety emergency.  And that city decides

        22       that, important as education is, to deal with

        23       that emergency, maybe they have to open up some











                                                             
1758

         1       hospitals.  Maybe they have to deal with a

         2       public safety emergency, put more police

         3       officers, others, out into the street.  And they

         4       make that determination and they want to make

         5       that determination as a locality, what is more

         6       important to them.

         7                      Now, along comes the Senate, led

         8       by Senator Padavan, says, "You can't do that

         9       because we decided some years ago that you are

        10       going to be locked into this particular

        11       system."  Is that a wise thing to do, Senator?

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, first,

        13       if there was something so dramatic -- so

        14       dramatic would occur in one of these five cities

        15        -- and you must keep in mind, and I want to say

        16       this parenthetically.  We're not asking local

        17       governments to increase their share.  We're

        18       simply saying maintain the average over the last

        19       three years; which, if you look at the data at

        20       this point in time -- and I imagine that's why

        21       we have no memos in opposition for any of the

        22       five cities this year -- the impact would be

        23       minimal if not at all.











                                                             
1759

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Let's

         2       hold our conversations down.  Senator Padavan is

         3       getting nervous over here.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN: With regard to

         5       your question directly, if there was something

         6       so dramatic, so overwhelming, that this bill

         7       become an impediment in a health emergency or

         8       some catastrophe that I can't possibly imagine,

         9       well, I would presume we would be called to act

        10       to make an adjustment, if necessary, in that

        11       particular case.  But that's so hypothetical

        12       that it -- you know, it begs an appropriate

        13       answer.

        14                      Senator, year after year, many

        15       point to Albany and they're saying, "You are not

        16       doing what you can for education."  You have

        17       been in that position.  I have been.  Year after

        18       year, we respond the best we can, and all we're

        19       saying to those local governments, particularly

        20       our city, just keep doing what you have been

        21       doing.  We were not asking you for anything

        22       extraordinary.  Just maintain that level, and

        23       we'll continue to do what we can to add to it.











                                                             
1760

         1                      And I don't think that's asking

         2       too much.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Leichter.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, on the

         7       bill.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

         9       bill.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I don't think

        11       I can say it any better than Senator

        12       Stachowski.  I think he made excellent points.

        13       I just want to, maybe, embellish it a bit if I

        14       can.

        15                      What disturbs me here is that

        16       Senator Padavan says, "Well, you know, we're not

        17       doing enough for education," or "we're charged

        18       with not doing enough for education.  So I will

        19       tell you what I will do.  I will put my hand

        20       into the governmental levers of the localities

        21       and tell them what to do."

        22                      He doesn't say: "I'm going to

        23       give more money for the city of New York.  I'm











                                                             
1761

         1       going to vote against school budgets that shaft

         2       my city "-- which you voted for time and time

         3       and time again.  "No, I'm not going to do that.

         4       I will just tell the city of New York how to

         5       spend their own money."

         6                      Senator, I don't think that's

         7       doing anything for education.  I'm sorry.

         8                      But I am concerned beyond that

         9       personal thing which, frankly, expresses some

        10       regret that I have that my Republican colleagues

        11       from the city of New York cannot fight within

        12       their conference and cannot join those of us

        13       here who want to establish a fair funding

        14       level.  And I must say that because I think that

        15       maybe it's particularly ill-suited, Senator

        16       Padavan, for you to bring forth this sort of

        17       bill.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Will the

        19       Senator like to yield?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Leichter?

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, I











                                                             
1762

         1       think you just made a rather broad statement

         2       which, on the face of it, is not only inaccurate

         3       but somewhat offensive.  I strongly object to

         4       any statement from you that anyone on this side

         5       has failed to deal with aid to education for the

         6       city of New York.  All the facts point to quite

         7       the opposite.

         8                      Now, if you want to argue

         9       formula, we can stand here all day long and

        10       argue formula.  We can talk about 34 versus 36

        11       or 33 versus whatever in terms of aid to

        12       education.  We can talk about federal money

        13       pouring into the city of New York.  I will be

        14       happy to discuss that with you as long as you'd

        15       like, but don't stand there and make a

        16       categorical statement that our calling upon the

        17       big five cities to maintain a level of effort

        18       consistent with their own practices in order not

        19       to point to us and look to us in every instance

        20       to bail them out.

        21                      Now, the facts are quite to the

        22       contrary in terms of your allegation, but

        23       they're also, I think, in support of this bill.











                                                             
1763

         1       If you look at the last several years in any of

         2       the big five cities, the impact of this

         3       legislation would be minimal.  Minimal.  So we

         4       are not calling upon them really to do too

         5       much.

         6                      Now, if you talk about mandates,

         7       there are mandates in our state laws in almost

         8       every category that you would like to talk

         9       about.

        10                      Let's refer to social services.

        11       Do we not mandate that local governments pick up

        12       a certain portion by law, in statute, of

        13       Medicaid, of ADC, of whatever area of social

        14       services you would like to look at? So there's

        15       nothing unique about that part of our proposal

        16       here.  This does not stand on its own in that

        17       regard.

        18                      Senator, while I could understand

        19       that you would like to stand up on behalf of our

        20       city, I think it would be more appropriate if

        21       you stood up on behalf of our kids, who year

        22       after year are getting shortchanged not by

        23       virtue of the state aid to education escalation











                                                             
1764

         1       in aid.  If you look at the last ten years and

         2       if you plotted a curve of state aid to

         3       education, it has gone up rather steeply.  If

         4       you look at that same curve with regard to the

         5       city's share of aid to education, the curve is

         6       somewhat substantially flatter.  They have not

         7       kept pace with what we have been able to do over

         8       the past ten years.

         9                      Now, it is true, in the last two

        10       years, we have not been able to do what we'd

        11       like.  The fact remains, you know what we had to

        12       deal with in terms of our state budget.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I'm

        14       happy to answer your question, or was it a

        15       question?

        16                      But, Senator, let me just say a

        17       couple of things, and I'm glad that you -- I

        18       would be happy to debate this with you, and I'll

        19       tell you -- I'll tell you why.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hold

        21       on.  Senator Mega, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR MEGA:  Would Senator

        23       Leichter yield for a short question?











                                                             
1765

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Could I just

         2       answer Senator Padavan's question, then I will

         3       yield to you, Senator.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  He's

         5       not going to yield right at the moment.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Senator,

         7       I think there are a number of things that you

         8       said that really ought to be answered.

         9                      First of all, let's debate the

        10       New York situation.  I'm not going to do it

        11       here, but I will tell you what.  I invite you on

        12       my television show, and you and I will debate

        13       this.

        14                      Now, the only problem with that

        15       invitation is that the Republican Majority,

        16       acting in their usual mature fashion, obviously

        17        -- apparently have taken some offense to the

        18       fact that we have put on motions to discharge

        19       which ask you to have an honest budget; and, as

        20       a consequence, they have canceled our use of the

        21       telecommunication system.  But assuming that

        22       that childishness ends, I would be happy,

        23       Senator Padavan, you and I -- you take my hour.











                                                             
1766

         1       If not, you give me some of your hour.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  You have an

         3       hour? I only have 15 minutes.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  This was an

         5       hour euphemistically.  The trouble with doing it

         6       on your show is it will be shown in Queens.  But

         7       all right.  I'll tell you what.  We will debate

         8       it first on my 15 minutes and then on your 15

         9       minutes.

        10                      But Senator, if you want to talk

        11       about facts, the fact is that New York City gets

        12       less school aid than the number of students, and

        13       it's a disgrace.  It's a disgrace, and it's due

        14       to actions of the Majority in this house.

        15                      And, in fact, the city of New

        16       York just recently had to go to court -- they

        17       had to go to court to sue to get justice.  And

        18       now Senator Padavan is going to help the

        19       students of the city of New York not by bringing

        20       them the money they should get, not by saying

        21       "I'm going to vote against this budget because

        22       it's unfair to my city."  No.  He is going to

        23       tell the city how to spend its own money.











                                                             
1767

         1                      Senator, let me tell you.  There

         2       are races this year for the City Council of the

         3       city of New York.  And very soon will come the

         4       petition time.  And if you want to engage in

         5       that sort of decision making, the Council would

         6       be the right place to do it, and you may want to

         7       consider it.  I would be very sorry to lose you

         8       here.

         9                      But don't tell the city of New

        10       York or the city of Buffalo how to spend their

        11       money.  I just think that's wrong.  And then

        12       say, "What a wonderful thing I'm doing for

        13       education."

        14                      Let me finally say, well

        15       intentioned as this bill might be -- although as

        16       I pointed out, I think it's mistaken -- I just

        17       want to emphasize again the fact that we're

        18       locking these localities into a particular

        19       formula.

        20                      Senator Padavan says that it's

        21       hypothetical that they are ever going to have

        22       such a great need to spend their money

        23       otherwise; and if that occurs, well, we'll come











                                                             
1768

         1       back and change it.

         2                      It may be October.  It may be

         3       November.  We may not be able to change it.  Why

         4       would you want to impose this sort of a strait

         5       jacket on the localities? I refer again I think

         6       to the very good points that were made by

         7       Senator Stachowski.  It's not right for us to

         8       pass this sort of a bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        10       Dollinger is next.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Mr.

        12       President.  Will Senator Padavan yield to a

        13       question?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I'm

        15       sure he will.  Senator Padavan.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, as I

        17       understand this bill -- and I just need a

        18       clarification.  As I understand it, when a

        19       school district, one of the big five, comes to

        20       us and says, "We have a need for additional

        21       funds," and then we meet that need, what this

        22       bill does is it prevents the City Council or any

        23       other government in the locality from then











                                                             
1769

         1       saying, "There wasn't really a need," and

         2       subtracting that sum from the amount that would

         3       otherwise go to finance education.  Is that

         4       correct?

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'm sorry.  I

         6       don't quite follow.  I followed you right up to

         7       about the middle.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Here's what

         9       happens.  One of the big five comes in and says,

        10       we need $5 million.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I am so

        12       overwhelmed about the possibility of joining the

        13       City Council that I'm having trouble

        14       understanding you.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I thought it

        16       was the cable TV that might have thrown you for

        17       a loop.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  That's no

        19       problem.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  But a school

        21       district, one of the big five, comes in and

        22       says, "We need $5 million more."

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yeah.











                                                             
1770

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  We meet that

         2       need.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And then,

         5       what this bill will prevent is the locality then

         6       saying, "We'll give you have $5 million less of

         7       real property tax money," and, therefore, wiping

         8       out the five million more that we've given them,

         9       in essence.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.  The

        11       answer to your question is yes in the sense that

        12       we're saying to that locality that whatever the

        13       proportion of your total budget was for the last

        14       several years in terms of education to your

        15       school district, which is the city, you will

        16       maintain that level, adjusted for any decreases

        17       or increases in pupil population.

        18                      So the answer to your question is

        19       yes.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you.

        21                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        23       Masiello.











                                                             
1771

         1                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Senator

         2       Masiello.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Oh, I

         4       know that.  I was just looking at the list that

         5       we have here. I think you are next on the list.

         6                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you.

         7       Did I jump over the list?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  No, I

         9       don't think so.  I think you are next.

        10                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Okay.  Fine.

        11                      Thank you very much, Mr.

        12       President.  Would Senator Dollinger yield to a

        13       question?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        15       Dollinger, will you yield to Senator Masiello?

        16                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Senator, do

        17       you have a maintenance of effort formula in

        18       Rochester?

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's a good

        20       question.  I don't know.

        21                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  You don't

        22       know.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I don't.











                                                             
1772

         1                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you.  No

         2       further questions of you.

         3                      Because it's my understanding

         4       that there was some kind of maintenance of

         5       effort formula that Rochester has had for a

         6       number of years.  Maybe I'm using the wrong

         7       term.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  You may be

         9       correct.  I just may not be aware of it or I may

        10       not understand it in that -

        11                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Okay.  Fine.

        12       I can certainly understand where my colleague,

        13       Senator Stachowski, is coming from and certainly

        14       Senator Leichter.  There is certainly a lot to

        15       be said about home rule and the executive and

        16       the legislative branch doing what they are

        17       supposed to do in local government.

        18                      But I've got some of statistics

        19       here that really are startling, Senator, that I

        20       think really substantiates your position on this

        21       bill.  You take my own city, the city of

        22       Buffalo.  They have a per capita expenditure of

        23       $5,892 per student, which is the lowest in the











                                                             
1773

         1       state of New York of the big five school

         2       districts.  However, if you look at the state

         3       aid part of that per capita funding, it's

         4       $4,112, which is the highest per capita funding

         5       in the state of New York for the five schools -

         6       five school districts, big five school

         7       districts.

         8                      So what this tells me is that

         9       while the state contributes the highest funding

        10       per student per capita of the state, the city of

        11       Buffalo, conversely, has the lowest funding per

        12       capita of any of the big five cities at, I

        13       believe 1.8 -- I'm sorry -- $1800 per student

        14       the city contributes per student, which is the

        15       lowest of the five cities, and 4200 which is the

        16       highest that the state contributes.

        17                      I guess what I'm saying here is

        18       that as the state contributes more, more aid to

        19       the city of Buffalo for education, the city

        20       contributes less.

        21                      Let me give you another statistic

        22       which I find even more startling and more

        23       disturbing.  You take the '85-86 tax year of











                                                             
1774

         1       Buffalo, of which $90 million was produced by

         2       the tax levy of the city of Buffalo, of which

         3       $54 million of that $90 million went to the

         4       school district of Buffalo, or 64 percent.  In

         5       1992, the tax levy in the city of Buffalo went

         6       from $90 million to $136 million or

         7       approximately $40 million increase.  However, in

         8       1992-93, the tax levy was $51 million or a

         9       reduction of $3 million or reduction to 37

        10       percent of the tax levy.

        11                      So in eight years, while the

        12       property tax levy grew by $40 million, the

        13       portion to the schools in Buffalo decreased by

        14       $3 million or from 60 percent to almost 38

        15       percent.  So, obviously, somebody is not making

        16       the best use of those revenues in the city of

        17       Buffalo.

        18                      I don't like telling the council,

        19       I don't like telling the executive, that they

        20       have to do a better job in allocating those

        21       monies.  But, quite frankly, as we have

        22       increased state aid, the city has decreased

        23       their contribution to education.  I think that











                                                             
1775

         1       is wrong.  I think the students have suffered in

         2       the city of Buffalo because of that.

         3                      I think we have to be fair.  We

         4       have to be consistent.  We have to be, I think,

         5       just in the allocation of money to our school

         6       districts of the big five.  I think Buffalo

         7       illustrates that there is need for this, and I'm

         8       going to support this legislation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        10       Galiber, did you wish to speak?

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  No.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Okay.

        13       On the bill.  Read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the first day of July.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Stachowski.

        23                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  To explain











                                                             
1776

         1       my vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  To

         3       explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Although I'm

         5       against mandates, if Senator Masiello, hopefully

         6       soon to be Mayor Masiello, wants to put himself

         7       in this locked box, I can't be against that.

         8       I'm going to vote for the bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        10       Stachowski is in the affirmative.  Negatives

        11       raise your hands again.  Senator Galiber, you

        12       are still in the negative? I don't know.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.  Nays

        14       5.  Senators Connor, DeFrancisco, Galiber,

        15       Leichter and Montgomery recorded in the

        16       negative.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      Senator Present?

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        21       I understand that the substitute for Calendar

        22       285 is at the desk.  May we have the

        23       substitution and call up that bill?











                                                             
1777

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yes,

         2       there is, sir.

         3                      Secretary will read 285.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       285.  Senator Larkin moves to discharge the

         6       Committee on Education from Assembly Bill Number

         7       3830 and substitute it for the identical

         8       Calendar Number 285.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        10       Substitution is ordered.  You can read the last

        11       section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      Continue the controversial.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       289, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3558,

        23       an act to amend the Public Health Law.











                                                             
1778

         1                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Explanation.  Senator Cook.

         4                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

         5       When the city of New York was authorized,

         6       originally, to build water supply reservoirs in

         7       the upstate area, they were given authority

         8       under the law to impose certain regulations to

         9       protect the purity of that water, which at the

        10       time was very important, very necessary.

        11                      Today, we have a sophisticated

        12       Department of Environmental Conservation, state

        13       Health Department.  In fact, no place else in

        14       the entire state, except in the city watershed,

        15       does any city of this kind have power to go out

        16       and impose regulation upon the people who reside

        17       in the counties who may be part of their

        18       watershed.

        19                      This bill simply would put New

        20       York City on the same ground that every other

        21       city in the state is, to say that the regulation

        22       of their watershed would have to be under the

        23       same auspices of the state Health Department











                                                             
1779

         1       rather than by the city of New York.

         2                      We find this to be something that

         3       is much preferable, frankly, to having a city

         4       government over which we have no control and

         5       with whom we do not always have the best rapport

         6       sending inspectors out and imposing these

         7       regulations.

         8                      We think the regulations ought to

         9       be the same in the New York City watershed as

        10       they are in the Buffalo watershed or the

        11       Rochester watershed or any place else in the

        12       state.  Therefore, this bill takes from the city

        13       of New York the authority which was necessary at

        14       the time it was put in there, in 1905, and takes

        15       that away from them to unilaterally impose land

        16       use regulations upon us and, instead, says that

        17       the New York City watershed shall be regulated

        18       in the same manner as every other watershed.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       Stachowski.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        22       President.  I'd just like to point out that last

        23       year on this bill, Senators Connor, Galiber,











                                                             
1780

         1       Gold, Gonzalez, Halperin, Korman, Leichter,

         2       Markowitz, Masiello, Mendez, Montgomery,

         3       Ohrenstein, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Stavisky,

         4       Waldon, Weinstein, Goodhue, Goodman, Marchi,

         5       Mega, Padavan, Spano and Velella, voted in the

         6       negative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Slow roll call.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Is

        13       there five? I guess there is.  There's been a

        14       call for a slow roll call.  Ring the bell.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush

        16       excused.  Senator Bruno.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Connor.

        19                      SENATOR CONNOR:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Cook, how do you vote?

        23                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.











                                                             
1781

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         6       Dollinger.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      Senator Farley.

        11                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber.

        13                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        15                      (There was no response. )

        16                      Senator Gonzalez.

        17                      ((There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Goodman.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Senator Halperin.

        21                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  To explain my











                                                             
1782

         1       vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Hannon to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

         5       During the course of last fall, the Housing

         6       Committee had a long hearing in regard to water

         7       needs in New York City and the effect of changes

         8       in water fees, et cetera, on housing on that

         9       city.  And, obviously, what's happening in the

        10       watershed areas for New York City is a great

        11       deal of concern to us.

        12                      On looking at this bill, however,

        13       one realizes that what we're trying to do is

        14       simply have reasonable rules apply to those

        15       watershed areas and not to negate things that

        16       the federal government would otherwise -- Mr.

        17       President, would you put my light back on?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Your

        19       point is well taken, Senator Hannon.  I would

        20       like to ask the house to show a little

        21       courtesy.  We can't her the Senator explaining

        22       his vote.  Please take your conversations

        23       outside the chamber.











                                                             
1783

         1                      Senator Hannon.

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  This measure

         3       would simply allow reasonable measures to be

         4       imposed on those watershed areas, reasonable to

         5       the people living there and reasonable with

         6       regard to the environmental concerns that were

         7       needed.

         8                      For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I

         9       would support Senator Cook's bill.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Hannon is in the affirmative.

        12                      Continue the roll.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann,

        14       excused.  Senator Holland.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        17                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

        19                      SENATOR JONES:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl.

        21                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        23                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.











                                                             
1784

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

         4                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         8                      SENATOR LEVY: Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

        10                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        14                      SENATOR MARCHI:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino.

        16                      (Indicating "Aye." )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.  Senator

        18       Markowitz.

        19                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        21       Masiello.

        22                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mega.











                                                             
1785

         1                      SENATOR MEGA:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

         3                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Montgomery.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nolan.

         8                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Nozzolio.

        11                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Ohrenstein.

        14                      (Indicating "Nay." )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  No.  Senator

        16       Onorato.

        17                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Oppenheimer.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      Senator Padavan.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.











                                                             
1786

         1                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         3       Paterson.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

         8                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Santiago.

        11                      (There was to response. )

        12                      Senator Sears.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      Senator Seward.

        15                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sheffer.

        17                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

        21                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  No.











                                                             
1787

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

         2                      SENATOR SPANO:  No.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       Stachowski.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         7       Stafford.

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Stavisky.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      Senator Trunzo.

        13                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        15                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        17                      SENATOR VELELLA:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.











                                                             
1788

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Absentees.

         3                      THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  Yes.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      Senator Gold.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Senator Gonzalez.

        12                      (There was no response. )

        13                      Senator Goodman.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Santiago.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Senator Sears.

        20                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Stavisky.

        23                      (There was no response. )











                                                             
1789

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Results.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 32.  Nays

         4       20.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Libous for a motion.

        10                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

        11       I would like to put a sponsor star on Calendar

        12       Number 317, Senate Print 2060.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  317 is

        14       starred at the request of the sponsor.

        15                      SENATOR SMITH:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        17       Smith.

        18                      SENATOR SMITH:  Mr. President.  I

        19       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        20       negative on Calendar Number 286.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  286,

        22       you are in the negative without objection.

        23                      Senator Velella.











                                                             
1790

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President.

         2       I request unanimous consent on Calendar 285 to

         3       be recorded in the negative.  I was outside the

         4       chamber.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         6       Velella will be in the negative on 285.

         7                      SENATOR VELELLA:  And, Mr.

         8       President, on Calendar Number 255.  On Friday, I

         9       was also out of the chamber.  I would like the

        10       record to reflect that if I had been here I

        11       would have voted in the negative.  That's Senate

        12       Bill 3487, Calendar 255.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       record will so reflect.

        15                      Senator Tully.

        16                      SENATOR TULLY:  Yes, Mr.

        17       President.  On page 10, would you place a

        18       sponsor star on Calendar 238?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  238 is

        20       starred at the request of the sponsor.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Paterson.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.











                                                             
1791

         1       President.  Totally unrelated to anything that

         2       Senator Smith did here today, with unanimous

         3       consent, I would like to be recorded in the

         4       negative on Calendar Number 286.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  286,

         6       without objection.  I think we can continue the

         7       calendar.  We don't have any more.  We have

         8       completed the calendar.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        10       you were very efficient today.  There being no

        11       further business, I move we adjourn until

        12       tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at

        15       3:00 p.m.

        16                      (Whereupon, at 4:22 p.m., Senate

        17       adjourned. )

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