Regular Session - April 5, 1993

                                                                 
2310

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         April 5, 1993

        10                           1:07 a.m.

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        13                       REGULAR SESSION

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        17       LT. GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will come

         3       to order.

         4                      There will be order in the

         5       chamber.

         6                      Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         8       We haven't adjourned until the presiding officer

         9       up there says we are adjourned.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  I adjourned the

        11       session from the 4th of April until 1:07.  I

        12       then reconvened the new session.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I'm sorry,

        14       sir.  I didn't hear you reconvene.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Well, it's

        16       understandable because there is a bit of noise

        17       in the chamber, but there is not now.

        18                      We are reconvened.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  We are

        20       reconvened.  Shall we have our salute to the

        21       flag?

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  I would like to

        23       ask everyone to rise and repet the Pledge of











                                                             
2312

         1       Allegiance with me.

         2                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         3       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  In the absence of

         5       clergy, I would like to ask for a moment of

         6       silence.

         7                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

         8       silence. )

         9                      Secretary will read the minutes

        10        -- or the Journal.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        12       Sunday, April 4.  The Senate met pursuant to

        13       adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, April 3,

        14       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        15       adjourned.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Hearing no

        17       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        18                      Senator Present.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        20       I move that we recess until tomorrow at -- today

        21       at 9 a.m.

        22                      In behalf of Senator Levy, there

        23       will be a Republican Conference in 332 at 9:00











                                                             
2313

         1       a.m.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  I'm sorry.

         3       Senator Present, would you repeat the

         4       announcement?

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we

         6       recess until 9:00 a.m. of this day and that

         7       there will be -

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         9                      (The President gaveled for

        10       order. )

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  I still -- the

        12       Senate is reconvening at 9:00 a.m., is that the

        13       message?

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Until 9:00 a.m.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Right.

        16                      Senator Mendez.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  There will be a

        18       Democratic Conference today at 9:00 a.m.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  If I can make an

        22       inquiry of the Chair.  My understanding is, now,

        23       that we are in recess.  The Journal Clerk has a











                                                             
2314

         1       tally on those here, and if we go into session

         2       at 9:00 o'clock and somebody should happen to be

         3       late, we will be voting about 57 or 60 seats.

         4       Is that correct? It just might be an incentive

         5       for people to come on time.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I repeat that

         8       there will be a Republican -- on behalf of

         9       Senator Levy, there will be a Republican

        10       Conference at 9:00 a.m., conference this

        11       morning.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  A Republican

        13       Conference at 9:00 a.m.

        14                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Both -

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        16       Ohrenstein.

        17                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Mr.

        18       President.  Both times are 9:00 a.m. sharp; is

        19       that correct?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  9:00 a.m. sharp

        21       for both conferences.

        22                      (Whereupon, at 1:11 a.m., Senate

        23       recessed. )











                                                             
2315

         1                      (Whereupon, at 11:42 a.m. , the

         2       Senate reconvened. )

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will come

         4       to order.  Senate will reconvene the session

         5       that was convened at approximately 1:07 this

         6       morning.

         7                      Senator Present.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         9       In behalf of Senator Stafford, I would like to

        10       call an immediate meeting of the Finance

        11       Committee in Room 332.  We will stand at ease

        12       pending the report of that committee.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Finance

        14       committee, immediate meeting.

        15                      The Senate will stand at ease.

        16                      (Whereupon, at 11:42 a.m., the

        17       Senate was at ease. )

        18                      (Whereupon, at 12:01 p.m., Senate

        19       reconvened. )

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will come

        21       to order.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Will you











                                                             
2316

         1       recognize Senator Goodman.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Goodman.

         3                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

         4       I believe there is a privileged resolution at

         5       the desk and I ask that its title be read.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         7       read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

         9       Resolution, by Senator Goodman, congratulating

        10       Mr. Alvin E. Coleman upon the occasion of his

        11       95th birthday on April 7, 1993.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the

        13       resolution.  All those in favor, say aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed, nay.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      The ayes have it.  The resolution

        18       is adopted.

        19                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

        21                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Just for my

        22       colleagues in the chamber.  Yesterday a

        23       resolution was adopted declaring National











                                                             
2317

         1       Library Week.  I open it up to the entire

         2       membership if they wish to be on it.  Even

         3       though the resolution passed yesterday, the

         4       resolution is open.  I know that you have been

         5       very busy, and a number of members asked me

         6       about it.  So if you wish to be on that, would

         7       you please approach the desk.  It's the National

         8       Library Week Resolution.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        11       Is there a report of a standing committee at the

        12       desk?

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we have

        15       that report read.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        17       will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        19       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        20       following bills directly for third reading:

        21                      Senate Budget Bill 653B, aid to

        22       localities budget.

        23                      Senate Bill Number 4366, by the











                                                             
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         1       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law,

         2       in relation to retaining the 1993, the state

         3       personal income tax rates and standard deduction

         4       amounts.

         5                      Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly

         6       Bill Number 1354A, an act making appropriations

         7       for the support of government.  Excuse me.  It's

         8       the Senate bill that's being reported directly

         9       for third reading.  Senate Bill 654B, Senate

        10       budget bill.

        11                      Senate Bill Number 4365, by the

        12       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Highway

        13       Law, the Public Authorities Law, and the State

        14       Finance Law.

        15                      Senate Bill Number 4364, Senate

        16       Budget Bill, an act to amend chapter of the laws

        17       of 1993, enacting the aid to localities budget.

        18                      Senate Bill Number 4363, by the

        19       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Public

        20       Health Law, in relation to extending the

        21       provisions of the supplementary low income

        22       patient adjustment.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without











                                                             
2319

         1       objection, third reading.

         2                      Senator Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         4       Let's take up Calendar 408, which is Senate

         5       6353B.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         7       read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       408, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Bill Number

        10       653B, an act making appropriations for the

        11       support of government and to amend Chapter 53 of

        12       the Laws of 1992.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        14       Is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

        16       message.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we

        18       accept the message.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  All those in

        20       favor of the motion, say aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye.")

        22                      Opposed, nay.

        23                      (There was no response. )











                                                             
2320

         1                      The ayes have it.

         2                      The message is agreed to -- or

         3       the motion is agreed to.  The message is

         4       accepted.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford

         6       moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from

         7       Assembly Bill Number 1353A and substitute it for

         8       the identical Senate Bill 653B.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        10       ordered.

        11                      Last section.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Maybe it's

        15       indicative of how we do business here that a

        16       bill of this magnitude which really so directly

        17       affects every person in this state is about to

        18       pass without any comment and without -- and on a

        19       fast roll call.

        20                      Mr. President, I think that all

        21       of us here have to admit that we probably know

        22       very little of what is in this budget.  We may

        23       know about one or two programs that we're











                                                             
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         1       interested in.  I'm not suggesting that every

         2       member has to know how every dollar is spent,

         3       but certainly we have the right to know more

         4       than we do about this budget.

         5                      This bill was printed, I believe,

         6       at 4:00 or 5:00 a.m.  Most of us have had about

         7       an hour, not only members of the Minority

         8       but members of the Majority, running around

         9       frantically trying to find out what programs are

        10       in and what programs aren't in.

        11                      I want to say that on our side,

        12       and I'm sure it's true on your side, we have

        13       certainly been helped by staff.  But the whole

        14       budget process is so centered in the

        15       negotiations between the Speaker, the Majority

        16       Leader, the Governor and their staff, that the

        17       members are really almost totally excluded.

        18                      I find a number of reasons to

        19       vote against this bill besides the fact that the

        20       whole budget process here is really so flawed.

        21       One reason is the terrific growth in what I

        22       would call parochial items.  I'm not suggesting

        23       that there aren't times when needs of a











                                                             
2322

         1       particular district in a locality shouldn't be

         2       addressed in the budget on the recommendation of

         3       member or members who represent that district,

         4       but we have seen an enormous growth.

         5                      I'm not just talking about member

         6       items.  I'm talking about the ability,

         7       particularly, that the Majority in this house

         8       has taken of putting in projects in their

         9       district.  So instead of addressing statewide

        10       needs, we more and more seem to address these

        11       particular local needs which may make good local

        12       campaign propaganda but certainly don't make

        13       good public policy.

        14                      I mean just as I look through

        15       this 500-page bill, I see so many items there

        16       for Nassau and Suffolk, 100,000 here, 200,000

        17       there and so on.  I think the Island is going to

        18       sink another foot.

        19                      But, Mr. President, I think that

        20       also reflects the fact that budgeting in this

        21       state, particularly in the last few years, is

        22       really out of control.  The process is so badly

        23       flawed.











                                                             
2323

         1                      I want to say that there's also a

         2       number of very important programs that we failed

         3       to address because we didn't provide enough

         4       revenue so that we could fund those programs.

         5       It seems to me that there's many needs

         6       throughout this state that we have now cast on

         7       the localities.  I did a study some couple years

         8       ago which showed how the burden on the locality

         9       has grown because the state has not provided the

        10       help that it should.  In all fairness, most of

        11       that is due to cutback in federal support.  But

        12       some of it is also due in the amount of monies

        13       that the state makes available.  So when, as we

        14       had last year, members from suburban areas

        15       particularly from Long Island got up and had all

        16       these proposals to set up study commissions to

        17       study why the real estate tax is so high, well,

        18       the real estate tax is so high because you pass

        19       this sort of a budget, and the localities have

        20       to pick up more and more of programs, have to

        21       meet social concerns and needs more and more

        22       that really we ought to be meeting here.

        23                      So, Mr. President, I guess we











                                                             
2324

         1       ought to be happy that we're not doing it at

         2       5:00 a.m. or 6:00 a.m. We are doing it at a

         3       relatively reasonable hour, but I don't think

         4       any of us can take much comfort in the process

         5       that has brought the bill to us at this

         6       particular time and has given us so little time

         7       to give it real serious consideration.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        10       Can we lay this bill aside temporarily?

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        12       aside.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Call up 410.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        15       read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford

        17       moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from

        18       Assembly Bill Number 1354A and substitute it for

        19       the identical Senate Bill 654B.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        21       ordered.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        23       Is there a message at the desk for the bill?











                                                             
2325

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

         2       message.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

         4       accept the message.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

         6       All in favor, say aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        11       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Waldon.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.  I believe there is an amendment at

        15       the desk.  I waive its reading and respectfully

        16       request an opportunity to explain my amendment.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Waldon is

        18       recognized.

        19                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.  I, with the amendment, hope to have

        21       removed from this bill lines 14 through 21 on

        22       page 259, which would result in in excess of

        23       $600,000 being removed from the capital projects











                                                             
2326

         1       fund, marine projects purpose area of the marine

         2       resources portion of the bill.

         3                      The reason for that, Mr.

         4       President, is that the area I serve has been

         5       very negatively impacted by three storms, the

         6       one of Halloween in '92, the one in December of

         7        '93, and the blizzard of March of this year;

         8       and yet, those areas have not been appropriately

         9       serviced by this particular agency, and I think

        10       that that money could be better spent if it were

        11       to be utilized to correct the problems resulting

        12       from those storms in my district.  So I

        13       respectfully request that this body consider my

        14       amendment and act appropriately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

        16       occurs on the amendment of Senator Waldon.

        17                      All those in favor, say aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed, nay.

        20                      (Response of nay. )

        21                      In the opinion of the Chair, the

        22       nays have it.

        23                      SENATOR WALDON:  On the











                                                             
2327

         1       amendment, Mr. President.  Specifically there is

         2       an area in the district in the Rockaways which

         3       has been battered and beaten by these storms.

         4       That area has as a condition now bulkheads down

         5       and in disrepair, sand erosion on the beaches

         6       and that area of the beaches that is now under

         7       water.  We have a severe problem in terms of the

         8       quality of life in places in the district like

         9       Breezy Point and 95th Street along the beach and

        10       boardwalk of Rockaway and in areas not in the

        11       district; for example, Broad Channel, where

        12       there are houses actually teetering and

        13       tottering in the water, and I have inspected

        14       them personally, and I think that when an agency

        15       is empowered -- not empowered.  Let me correct

        16       that.  When an agency is mandated to be of

        17       service to the communities and does not respond

        18       to phone calls, does not react with dispatch on

        19       applications for bulkhead repairs and

        20       corrections regarding the beaches, then that

        21       agency is remiss.

        22                      All of us who are either in

        23       appointive office or elective office are











                                                             
2328

         1       servants of the public, no more, no less.  And I

         2       submit that Region 2 of the DEC has failed in

         3       its responsibilities to the people I serve, and

         4       I hope that someone is listening who will

         5       correct that wrong and someone is listening who

         6       will determine that people who are in acting

         7       positions as regional directors will never

         8       become permanent in those positions, and I hope

         9       that someone will recognize that the people of

        10       Rockaway, the people of Breezy Point, the people

        11       of the 10th Senatorial district, deserve better

        12       and the next time around, if there is a next

        13       time, when the cry goes out for help that

        14       someone will follow the mandate not only of

        15       government but of their particular agency and

        16       extend a helping hand.

        17                      I thank you for this opportunity

        18       to explain my amendment, Mr. President, and I

        19       thank my colleagues for their indulgence.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        21       Masiello.

        22                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Can somebody

        23       in the chamber answer a question on the











                                                             
2329

         1       Corrections part of the budget, the capital?

         2                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  What area?

         3                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Work release

         4       in prisons, construction, renovation,

         5       rehabilitation of, acquisition of.

         6                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Got it.  Got

         7       it.

         8                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  In the

         9       language, in the memo I have, Senator Stafford,

        10       it states that -- excuse me for a second.

        11       Buffalo day reporting work release site cannot

        12       be expended for design, acquisition, renovation,

        13       or construction of these facilities until the

        14       Commissioner has received approval from the

        15       Temporary President of the Senate and the

        16       Speaker of the Assembly.

        17                      Now, what role do we as Minority

        18       members have in that decision-making process if

        19       any of these facilities are within our

        20       districts?

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Well, I would

        22       explain this, Senator, and I certainly

        23       understand your concern, and I think I can











                                                             
2330

         1       appreciate where you are coming from.

         2                      You know, it would be great if 61

         3       Senators and 150 Assemblymen could just do what

         4       they want to do.  We just -- you know, we could

         5       just go our own ways, only our own bills pass,

         6       et cetera.  Obviously, that's ridiculous.

         7                      With this, we elect a Majority

         8       Leader.  You have the opportunity -- I believe

         9       you were a little active last fall in certain

        10       projects, so that maybe you would have had

        11       something to say about what you are concerned

        12       about.

        13                      But it's the Majority Leader and

        14       the Speaker.  Now, the Speaker if you aren't -

        15       I'm sure you are -- but the Speaker is like the

        16       Majority Leader over here.  You understand that.

        17                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Yes, I have

        18       been here 12 years.  I understand the function

        19       of the Speaker.

        20                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.  And,

        21       therefore, they have their constituencies which

        22       in the Assembly is the Speaker; the Majority

        23       Leader has his constituency in the Senate; and











                                                             
2331

         1       they represent us.

         2                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Would you

         3       yield to another question, Mr. -

         4                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Go ahead.

         5                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Senator

         6       Stafford, what do you mean by I was active in

         7       certain projects last fall?

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  You were

         9       active, I believe, which you have every right to

        10       be in trying to possibly make sure that the

        11       Majority changed here.

        12                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Wait a

        13       minute.  Are you saying that because of my role

        14       and perhaps other activities that are not

        15       legislative but political that I'm going to be

        16       punished for that or I have no say-so on what

        17       goes into my district?

        18                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Not at all.

        19       You're making a big mistake.  I didn't say

        20       "punished" at all.  I said that the Majority

        21       Leader represents this body in this legislation,

        22       and we are his constituency.  Sixty-one of us

        23       can't get together and decide something like











                                                             
2332

         1       this for Commissioner Coughlin.  That's what I'm

         2       saying.

         3                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  The reason why

         4       I asked that question, Senator, and other

         5       Senators is that there is a possibility, and it

         6       does specify here, that there could be a Buffalo

         7       day reporting work release program in my

         8       district.  And, quite frankly, there has been a

         9       lot of meetings in Buffalo about a particular

        10       site for work release.

        11                      Obviously, when you do something

        12       like this, it's a very controversial issue.  I

        13       want to state for the record that I helped

        14       people get in work release.  I know the value of

        15       it.  I know there's going to be some problems

        16       with it.  But, quite frankly, with the

        17       overcrowding in our prisons, work release

        18       overall is a good project and a good program.

        19                      However, in my particular area

        20       and this particular site in Buffalo, there is a

        21       lot of controversy; that people who live in and

        22       around that facility are opposed to it.

        23                      And the reason why I ask the











                                                             
2333

         1       question is that some place, somewhere down the

         2       line, there is going to be a decision made on

         3       that facility or some other facility within my

         4       Senatorial District, and I just want to know

         5       what role I will have in that decision-making

         6       process with the President of this Senate.

         7       That's my question.

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I'm sure he

         9       will take under consideration any concerns you

        10       have.  I also have a facility that's in this

        11       legislation, and I'm very anxious for it to be

        12       built.

        13                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  I'm glad you

        14       are going to have some say-so in your facility

        15       in your district and rightfully so, Senator

        16       Stafford.  I just want afforded to me the same

        17       kind of legislative privilege.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Excuse me one

        20       second.  As a matter of fact, I think your

        21       concerns have been represented, Senator, and I

        22       will be glad to talk to you in detail

        23       afterwards.











                                                             
2334

         1                      SENATOR MASIELLO: Fine.  Thanks.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         3       section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I would like

         9       to explain my vote.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Hoffmann

        11       is recognized to explain her vote.

        12                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I'm a little

        13       concerned, Mr. President, at the lack of time

        14       afforded the members of this house to thoroughly

        15       digest this volume of information, in only this

        16       one section of the budget, in this capital

        17       projects budget.  We have not had an opportunity

        18       to read, digest, much less review in committee

        19       meetings or with our constituents the material

        20       contained herein.

        21                      Much of it is very similar to

        22       what the Governor originally presented to us,

        23       I'm sure.  But it's absolutely absurd that we're











                                                             
2335

         1       being asked to vote on something without at

         2       least a few days, much less a few weeks,

         3       opportunity to review it.

         4                      I vote in the negative.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Hoffmann

         6       votes no.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  To explain my

         8       vote, Mr. President.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Dollinger

        10       is recognized to explain his vote.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        12       President.  I want to join in the concurring

        13       thoughts of both Senator Leichter and Senator

        14       Hoffmann.  I, too, am 169 pages through this

        15       document.  And, frankly, I'm astounded at what I

        16       see in it.  The time for debate, I guess, has

        17       come and gone.  The time for serious discussion

        18       about what this all means to the taxpayers of

        19       this state is gone.

        20                      Frankly, I was elected because

        21       people were sick and tired of doing business

        22       this way, and I think that voting for this or,

        23       frankly, any other portion of the spending and











                                                             
2336

         1       budget process would be a betrayal of the people

         2       that I was elected on the basis of changing the

         3       way we do business.

         4                      Seems to me this is more business

         5       as usual, and I can't support it, Mr. President.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Dollinger

         7       votes no.

         8                      Senator Masiello -

         9                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Let me explain

        10       my vote.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  -- is recognized

        12       to explain his vote.

        13                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  This

        14       particular issue in Buffalo has been around for

        15       quite some time.  I have had dialogue with

        16       Senator Volker.  I know that the Majority Leader

        17       is aware of that particular situation.  I'm

        18       comfortable that I will have a role and input in

        19       any future discussions.  Therefore, I'm going to

        20       vote yes on that capital budget because I

        21       believe there are a lot of things in that budget

        22       that are important to the state, that are

        23       important to my constituency.  And as long as I











                                                             
2337

         1       have a role in that decision-making process, I'm

         2       comfortable with that.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Masiello

         4       votes yes.

         5                      Clerk will call the roll.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 410 are Senators

         8       Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Kuhl, Pataki and

         9       Paterson.  Ayes 54.  Nays 6.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                      Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 411.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        15       read.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Senate 4364.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       411, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Bill Number

        19       4364, an act to amend a chapter of the Laws of

        20       1993 enacting the aid to localities budget.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        22       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a











                                                             
2338

         1       message.  The Chair will state that we need to

         2       substitute the bill.  I believe the Assembly has

         3       acted.

         4                      The Secretary will read.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford

         6       moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from

         7       Assembly Bill Number 7590, and substitute it for

         8       the identical Senate Bill 4364.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        10       ordered.

        11                      Now, there is a message at the

        12       desk.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

        14       accept the message.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  On the motion.

        16                      All those in favor, say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        21       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        22                      Read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
2339

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  To explain my

         8       vote.  Mr. President.  I'm going to support this

         9       budget bill.  I think it's very badly needed in

        10       our communities so that the local governments

        11       will have to spend extra money in interest if we

        12       are tardy in sending in the monies.

        13                      However, there is an item in this

        14       budget that I hope eventually will be

        15       reconsidered.  I am referring to an

        16       appropriation of funds for $500,000 for sex

        17       therapy for sex offenders.  Mr. President, sex

        18       crimes and abuse among children is increasing in

        19       an enormous fashion not only in this great state

        20       but also throughout the nation.  Rape is the

        21       fastest growing crime, and there are reasons to

        22       believe that once in prison the sex offender is

        23       very difficult to rehab because something went











                                                             
2340

         1       wrong in their psychosexual development.

         2                      So, therefore, I hope that

         3       eventually, before this session is over, my

         4       colleagues here would take steps to insure -- to

         5       insure that sex offenders are made to remain in

         6       prison for as long as possible.  The priority in

         7       this area, Mr. President, has to be the safety

         8       of children and women in the state of New York.

         9                      Thank you.  But I vote yes on the

        10       bill.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez

        12       votes yes.

        13                      Senator Stachowski.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        15       President.  Could either Senator Stafford or

        16       Senator Levy yield to a question on the Suburban

        17       Highway Improvement Program.

        18                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, sure.

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I said that,

        20       because I know Norman did a lot of the

        21       transportation.

        22                      Can you explain this to me, what

        23       this is?











                                                             
2341

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  There will be

         2       order in the chamber.  If there are

         3       conversations other than those for the Senators

         4       who have been recognized that are necessary, I

         5       would like to ask you to leave the chamber.

         6       There will be order in the chamber.

         7                      Senator Stachowski has the floor,

         8       and he yielded to Senator Levy.

         9                      SENATOR LEVY:  Can we just hold

        10       for a moment?

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Sure.

        12                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator, this is

        13       the Governor's bill, and this language is

        14       extracted out of local assistance because of the

        15       court decision.  Otherwise, this language would

        16       be in the local assistance budget.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I just want

        18       to know what the program is.  Do I ask the

        19       question here or do I wait until later when we

        20       get to -

        21                      SENATOR LEVY:  This is the mass

        22       transit operating assistance program which

        23       relates to all subsidy funding for mass











                                                             
2342

         1       transportation statewide.

         2                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  The only

         3       question I have is what is -- I just wanted an

         4       explanation of what is the Suburban Highway

         5       Improvement Program? What does that particular

         6       program do? It's $35 million.  That's all I want

         7       to know.

         8                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator, that's in

         9       the next bill.

        10                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Well, it's

        11       in the local assistance.

        12                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  It's not in

        13       this bill.  It's in 4365.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I can ask

        15       that same question later, because it's listed in

        16       this bill too.

        17                      SENATOR LEVY:  It's 4365.

        18                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Okay.  I'll

        19       ask it later.

        20                      SENATOR LEVY:  I will be happy to

        21       answer it for you.

        22                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No, I'll ask

        23       it later, but it's listed here too.











                                                             
2343

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary is

         2       taking the roll.  Is there any other negative

         3       vote, Assembly Bill 7590? It's the chapter

         4       amendment on the aid to localities.  Senate

         5       4364.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 411 are Senators

         8       Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Nolan and Pataki.

         9       Ayes 55, nays 5.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                      Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        14       I would like to announce an immediate meeting of

        15       the Rules Committee in Room 332.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Rules Committee,

        17       immediate meeting.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       may we call up Calendar 412, Senate 4365.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        21       read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       412, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate











                                                             
2344

         1       Bill Number 4365, an act to amend the Highway

         2       Law, the Public Authorities Law, the State

         3       Finance Law and the Transportation Law.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         5       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

         7       message.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

         9       accept the message.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

        11                      All those in favor, say aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed, nay.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        16       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        20       Stachowski.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Would

        22       Senator Levy yield to a question.

        23                      SENATOR LEVY:  I understand the











                                                             
2345

         1       question, Senator.  Senator, what collectively

         2       we tried to do with this transportation

         3       financing package and achieve, whether it was

         4       the Governor, the Assembly, or the Senate, was

         5       to have a fair and just distribution regionally

         6       of funds.  Because of certain formulas on the

         7       federal side of the equation as it related to

         8       state highway and bridge funding and local

         9       highway and bridge funding, there were

        10       inequities as it relates to the Mid-Hudson

        11       region which includes all of the counties, the

        12       suburban counties served by Metro-North plus

        13       Ulster and Columbia County and Long Island.  So

        14       what we did was to generate a pool, the three

        15       legs of the triangle here in Albany, a pool of

        16       140 million.  Actually, it was a pool of $290

        17       million.  $150 million went to enhance CHIPS and

        18       Marchiselli.  CHIPS significantly helps upstate

        19       to counterbalance the inequities in the overall

        20       program and through the distribution of monies

        21       pursuant to the CHIPS formula, a Suburban

        22       Highway Trust Fund was created, as I said, to

        23       help Mid-Hudson and to help Long Island.  That's











                                                             
2346

         1       what this does.

         2                      We will, pursuant to a chapter,

         3       by June 15 determine -- along with a memorandum

         4       of understanding that identifies the projects on

         5       a state highway and bridge level that are to go

         6       forward as a part of this agreement, we will be

         7       doing a chapter determining how that money will

         8       be distributed in the Mid-Hudson region and on

         9       Long Island.

        10                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        11       President.  Could Senator Levy yield to one more

        12       question?

        13                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, certainly.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Basically,

        15       what I'm trying to find out -- and I appreciate

        16       that part of the explanation -- is this part,

        17       and maybe I have the wrong understanding about

        18       this, but if a bridge in the area that's

        19       covered by the Suburban Highway piece is done

        20       for a locality as opposed to one maybe upstate

        21       that would be done with Marchiselli funding

        22       available, would this program, the Suburban

        23       Highway thing -- if the bridge is chosen and











                                                             
2347

         1       done on the memorandum, would that mean that the

         2       whole bridge project is covered and done by this

         3       fund, as opposed to if a bridge in, say, Senator

         4       Volker's district is done with Marchiselli

         5       funds, that the locality would therefore qualify

         6       for Marchiselli funding, have to come up with

         7       their share of the funding up front and then

         8       slowly get it back; whereas, the localities that

         9       come under the Suburban Program just have that

        10       covered and they, therefore, would not have to

        11       come up with any money themselves to get their

        12       bridge work done?

        13                      SENATOR LEVY:  Number one,

        14       Senator, so you understand, in this agreement we

        15       have doubled the amount of Marchiselli funding

        16       as opposed to the historic levels.

        17                      And the answer to your question

        18       is, number one, Marchiselli, is a state pickup

        19       of a local match for federal funds, and most

        20       local bridges are not going to qualify for

        21       funding under the use of federal funds.

        22                      Now, to answer your question as

        23       to what will happen, I can't answer it now.  We











                                                             
2348

         1       can only answer it when we do the chapter

         2       simultaneously with the memorandum of

         3       understanding.  Because this money -- this money

         4       can be used either for state highways and state

         5       bridges or local roads and local bridges.  And

         6       one of the things we're going to be doing in the

         7       chapter that we will agree upon and pass is to

         8       come up with a mechanism to determine whether

         9       the money will be used for state highways and

        10       state bridges or local roads and local bridges

        11       and who is going to have the option.  And we

        12       can't answer that question now because it hasn't

        13       been decided and that's why it's pursuant to a

        14       chapter.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        16       President.  If I can just ask one more question,

        17       just so I can kind of explain my concern.

        18                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator, I

        20       understand all how Marchiselli works and whether

        21       there is as much as last year or twice as much

        22       doesn't play in my question.  My question has to

        23       do -- I know from your answer I can understand











                                                             
2349

         1       that we can't answer this particular question

         2       until later.  But just so you understand my

         3       concern is that if a community falls under this

         4       program and if, in fact, they have a bridge

         5       chosen to be repaired that wouldn't have

         6       qualified for federal funding or maybe would

         7       have but never got federal funding, they would

         8       have an opportunity if there is a different

         9       mechanism than Marchiselli funding to get the

        10       bridge repaired without the locality having to

        11       come up with the money up front.  Where under

        12       Marchiselli funding because of the change made a

        13       couple years ago to save the program, the

        14       formula now becomes -- for example, Buffalo has

        15       a bridge to get done.  They are eligible for

        16       Marchiselli funding.  The amount that Buffalo's

        17       share comes out to under Marchiselli funding is

        18       say, for example, 4 to $5 million.  That means

        19       the city of Buffalo on the start-up of that

        20       project has to come up with $4 million up front

        21       to qualify to get the Marchiselli funding.  And

        22       as the bridge is being built and the money is

        23       being spent, as that $4 million starts being











                                                             
2350

         1       spent, they get it back.  But the fact is

         2       Buffalo or whatever locality has to come up with

         3       that amount of money up front because of the

         4       change in the Marchiselli mechanism.  Where,

         5       under your program, I'm just trying to find out

         6       if, in fact, you do bridges, would it have any

         7       kind of mechanism like that; or would it be a

         8       much better program where, if they qualify, they

         9       get the money?

        10                      SENATOR LEVY:  Okay.  There's

        11       really two answers to your question.  Your

        12       question may be totally academic because the

        13       solution that we come up with may -- may result

        14       in only state highways and state bridges being

        15       done, so we don't get to that question.

        16                      The second answer is if we do

        17       have a local highway and bridge program through

        18       that chapter, we expect to structure it so it's

        19       the same as -

        20                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  That's -

        21       that's basically -- thank you very much.

        22                      SENATOR LEVY:  But, again, it's

        23       something we are all going to have to agree on











                                                             
2351

         1       and pass.

         2                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         4       Hoffmann.

         5                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Yes.  What we

         6       really need in this chamber is a truth in

         7       labeling bill.  Because this euphemism here for

         8       this particular piece of legislation that

         9       relates to the state's transportation

        10       infrastructure system makes technical

        11       alterations which impact on the expenditure of

        12       appropriations and reappropriation.

        13                      What that actually means is that

        14       this is a raid on the locked box.  We are now

        15       violating an agreement that we made with the

        16       taxpayers of this state to have a dedicated

        17       transportation fund; and, instead, we are coming

        18       up with a whole series of very convoluted back

        19       door borrowing maneuvers to create other means

        20       of financing some very necessary transportation

        21       projects at the same time we are transferring

        22       the money from the locked box into the general

        23       fund.  So truth in labeling -- truth in labeling











                                                             
2352

         1       is really needed for much of our legislation.

         2                      There is another aspect of this

         3       that requires some truth in labeling; that is,

         4       the whole concept of a chapter amendment.  What

         5       we're doing today is buying a pig in a poke

         6       because we don't even know which highway

         7       projects or bridge projects are going to be

         8       used.  We have to wait until later when we have

         9       yet another labeling issue, a memorandum of

        10       understanding, which translates here in Albany

        11       into an agreement between the political

        12       leadership of this house and the Governor.

        13                      I'll vote no.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        15       section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 412 are Senators

        22       DeFrancisco, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones and

        23       Stachowski.  Also Senator Kuhl.  Ayes 54, nays











                                                             
2353

         1       6.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         6       Can we take up Calendar 413, Senate 4363.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

         8       will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       413, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        11       Bill Number 4363, an act to amend the Public

        12       Health Law, in relation to extending the

        13       provisions of the supplementary low income

        14       patient adjustment.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

        16                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.

        17       Is there a message from the Governor?

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is not.

        19       The bill will be laid aside.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar Number

        23       409, which is Senate 4366.











                                                             
2354

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         2       read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       409, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         5       Bill Number 4366, an act to amend the Tax Law,

         6       in relation to retaining in 1993 the state

         7       personal income tax rates and standard deduction

         8       amounts.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        10       Is there a message at the desk?

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

        12       message.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

        14       accept the message.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

        16       All those in favor, say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        21       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        23                      PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.











                                                             
2355

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         2       President.  Is there an amendment at the desk?

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is an

         4       amendment at the desk.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         6       President.  I waive its reading.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter

         8       is recognized.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And ask a

        10       chance to explain it, and I will be brief.

        11                      This amendment is not only one

        12       that I think has a lot of merit, but I think

        13       it's symbolic of the things we can do to bring

        14       more revenues into the state coffers and to do

        15       it in a fair way and without in any way

        16       negatively affecting the state's economic

        17       competitiveness.

        18                      What this bill does is it

        19       disallows deductions for interest on mortgages

        20       on out-of-state property.  There is absolutely

        21       no reason why we in the state of New York should

        22       be subsidizing by permitting interest deduction

        23       on people who have ski condo's in Aspen or











                                                             
2356

         1       estates in Palm Beach.  Yet we make it

         2       attractive for people to finance out-of-state

         3       acquisitions, out-of-state property because we

         4       give an interest deduction.

         5                      Now, I have a number of other

         6       proposals.  I'm not going to move them.  But it

         7       just seemed to me that this was one that made

         8       such eminent good sense.

         9                      But the point I really want to

        10       make is that for years we have been doing our

        11       budgets really in a straitjacket, and that

        12       straitjacket is unfortunately due and created by

        13       the Governor's obstinate refusal to consider any

        14       revenue increase from broad-based fair taxes.

        15       Instead, he's reverted to fancy gimmicks and so

        16       on, but he has also starved the state treasury

        17       at a time when there were revenue enhancement

        18       measures that we could have taken.  One, for

        19       instance, is to raise the income tax on people

        20       making more than $200,000.  If anybody wants to

        21       protect those people and say that they are

        22       paying their fair share, you go ahead.  I will

        23       show you that they are not and that that would











                                                             
2357

         1       be a sensible way to raise more money.

         2                      There are loopholes in the law

         3       such as the loopholes in interest deduction that

         4       this amendment addresses that we should also

         5       do.  Unfortunately, the position of Governor

         6       Cuomo -- and he must be one of the last persons

         7       left in this country that believes in the "read

         8       my lip" pledge.  I'm sorry to be so harsh on the

         9       Governor, but I think that it has limited our

        10       ability to meet the needs of the people of the

        11       state of New York, and I think it has hurt the

        12       state's economic posture because the quality of

        13       life in this state has very definitely declined

        14       as we have been unable, through the budget, to

        15       deal with a lot of needs that we should be

        16       addressing here in New York State.

        17                      So this is a small step, just an

        18       example of one of the things that we can do to

        19       bring in revenue fairly which would then allow

        20       us to meet with some of the unmet needs in the

        21       state budget.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

        23       occurs on the amendment of Senator Leichter.











                                                             
2358

         1                      All those in favor, aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Opposed, nay.

         4                      (Response of nay. )

         5                      In the opinion of the Chair, the

         6       nays have it.  The amendment is not agreed to.

         7                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        10       Markowitz.

        11                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

        12       very much.  Just a few words, if I may.  The

        13       cigarette tax.

        14                      As a former smoker many, many

        15       years ago, I think it's a laudable goal for the

        16       Legislature, for all of us in government, to do

        17       our part to convince New York residents either

        18       to give up smoking and certainly to prevent

        19       those that are growing up today -- teenagers, in

        20       particular -- not to take up a bad habit.

        21                      The question is whether or not a

        22       17-cent increase on cigarettes is the way to

        23       go.  Now, I know that this is agreed upon by the











                                                             
2359

         1       Legislature, but if -- if you can, think about

         2       who this is going to fall on the worst.

         3                      Those smokers in the state that

         4       are more affluent, frankly, this is going to

         5       mean little to.  But those that are poorer in

         6       our society and for whatever reason choose to

         7       continue to smoke, which is their right as

         8       residents of this state, this will be a very

         9       onerous tax on them.

        10                      Now, there is no question that I

        11       know we needed the revenues in the state, and

        12       certainly I want to re-emphasize my belief that

        13       this state must remain committed to helping to

        14       get our citizens, our residents off the smoking

        15       habit.  It is a laudable goal, a proper goal for

        16       the state Legislature.  But one of my concerns

        17       is how it impacts on lower income residents of

        18       the state.

        19                      The second aspect of it is, and I

        20       mean this in great sincerity, we do have a

        21       corporation in New York City and all of us know

        22       that corporation by the name of Philip Morris.

        23       And I know that every one of us that live in New











                                                             
2360

         1       York City feel as I do; and that is, that we

         2       welcome their corporate location in New York

         3       City, that what we are about to do -- what we

         4       are about to do in no way -- in no way, is meant

         5       as a slap at Philip Morris.  Because I think

         6       it's important that we say that, because they

         7       are a very important corporation in our state.

         8       They are one of the largest in the United States

         9       that are still headquartered in New York City,

        10       many thousands of employees in New York City,

        11       and I think it's important that all of us

        12       recognize that unlike many other major

        13       corporations they are one of the few that really

        14       do give back in so many ways to the residents of

        15       the city of New York.

        16                      Now, I'm going to vote for this

        17       bill including the tax increase on cigarettes

        18       because I know it's agreed upon, but would I

        19       hope that somehow in the future as we negotiate

        20       budgets we think about how the impact of certain

        21       increases in sin taxes will impact on people

        22       that are poor as opposed to those who are

        23       affluent and how we can appropriate more state











                                                             
2361

         1       money to provide educational programs to

         2       convince the residents of the state to think

         3       about not starting a habit which will be onerous

         4       and detrimental to their health and to the

         5       general society as a whole.

         6                      But I also want to emphasize,

         7       Senator, that we hope.  Philip Morris has been a

         8       corporate citizen of New York City for many

         9       years and I know that all of us hope and expect

        10       and anticipate that they will continue to be for

        11       the years ahead.

        12                      Thank you.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  There will be

        15       order in the chamber.

        16                      Senator Volker.

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        18       I didn't intend to speak, but I have spoken in

        19       our conference on a number of occasions about

        20       this, and I think it's important to say it.  I

        21       understand the problem that we have in this

        22       budget with revenues.  There is no question that

        23        -- in fact, I assume -- although I read the











                                                             
2362

         1       press sometimes, I'm not exactly sure what the

         2       press knows about the budget process.

         3       Personally, I think we would have done two,

         4       three days ago if it hadn't been for two

         5       courts.  In fact, as somebody said, maybe what

         6       we should have done here a few days ago is to

         7       pull back the judicial pay bill, and that would

         8       make sure we weren't going to get any more

         9       adverse decisions.

        10                      But I have to say because I think

        11       it's a fact -- and I listened to Senator

        12       Markowitz talk about the poor, and I suppose

        13       there is an argument that the cigarette tax

        14       would fall somewhat heavily on the poor.  But I

        15       must tell you, Senator, I have a suspicion -- I

        16       talked to some of the health advocates about

        17       this -- I think they are dead wrong in the issue

        18       of cigarette tax.

        19                      I happen to be one of those

        20       old-fashioned people that believes you don't

        21       drive social policy with economic policy.  This

        22       business of thinking that you are going to make

        23       people get off of oil by raising gasoline taxes,











                                                             
2363

         1       and this business of raising cigarette taxes and

         2       that's going to keep people from smoking

         3       cigarettes, and you raise the alcohol tax and

         4       it's going to make people stop drinking.  I

         5       don't think it's ever really worked and I don't

         6       think it's going to work.

         7                      But worse than that, let me tell

         8       you something in western New York, and I happen

         9       to know that it's something that happens across

        10       the state.  We were caught on this.  The Senate

        11       was trying to chop down this tax.  I know there

        12       were people calling me saying, "Don't chop it

        13       down.  Raise it.  Raise it another 30 cents."

        14                      Well, let me tell you the

        15       problem.  Number one, you won't get anywhere

        16       near the revenue that you are trying to get

        17       because the law of diminishing returns will

        18       dramatically bring down the amount of revenue.

        19       Number two, I believe the amount cigarettes

        20       that's going to be around is going to increase

        21       dramatically, and I will tell you why.

        22                      There are Indian reservations in

        23       every one of the districts in western New York











                                                             
2364

         1       and way upstate New York.  And I know there are

         2       Indian reservations in Central New York and

         3       various places.  If you don't think that people

         4       are going to be running to those reservations in

         5       droves to get cheap cigarettes and that those

         6       cigarettes are going to be all over the state,

         7       you are wrong.  Now, that's only the Indians.

         8                      Then you got the border problem.

         9       This increase in the cigarette tax is going to

        10       drive the amount of cigarettes that are brought

        11       in across the borders dramatically.

        12                      And then you got the problem up

        13       at the Akwasasne reservation and the Mohawks,

        14       where I'm told by the State Police, the biggest

        15       problem they have up there right now is that

        16       every night they confiscate either truckloads or

        17       carloads of cigarettes that are going back and

        18       forth in that reservation.

        19                      The problem I understand with the

        20       revenue, but I want to tell and I'd like to tell

        21       those health advocates, unfortunately, you have

        22       been sold a bill of goods.  And the problem is

        23       that we're going to find out is that in truth,











                                                             
2365

         1       unfortunately, we're going to end up with more

         2       cheap cigarettes in the community, and this tax

         3       is not going to generate anywhere near the

         4       amount of money that it's supposed to generate,

         5       and I think that you're going to find that as

         6       the economy goes up and gets better, we're going

         7       to get rid of this tax increase.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         9       Oppenheimer.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

        11       President.  I'm going to be voting for this bill

        12       even though I haven't voted for revenue bills in

        13       the last two or three years because I have been

        14       very distressed with the number of one-shots and

        15       gimmicks and things that I found insufferable

        16       that were in the bill.  That is largely reduced

        17       in this bill.  The number of one-shots is

        18       considerably under what it has been in the past,

        19       and it's something that I can support.

        20                      The cigarette tax, I will

        21       support.  I was going to mention what Senator

        22       Volker mentioned, that I expect a lot of people

        23       will be coming from one minute away from my











                                                             
2366

         1       district from Connecticut purchasing their

         2       cigarettes there; and, therefore, I think that

         3       the tax estimates, the revenue estimates are not

         4       going to hold up.

         5                      I did want to make one other

         6       comment, and that is, it has seemed to me in the

         7       years that I have been here that this budget

         8       process has been getting more and more selective

         9       and exclusionary, and I feel this both for the

        10       Majority and Minority members.  And only

        11       leadership seems to be having any say, and

        12       that's too bad.  Because we're all up here to

        13       try and do a job, and we all work hard at it, I

        14       believe, and I think we're all pretty competent

        15       people, and I feel that our input would be

        16       valuable.  Both Majority and Minority do not

        17       have input, really, in this budget.

        18                      And for all of our worth up here,

        19       we could be staying home and saving the

        20       taxpayers X number of dollars per day and just

        21       let the three leaders go ahead and put together

        22       this budget.  I think that's too bad, and I

        23       would hope that leadership would look more











                                                             
2367

         1       kindly on their membership and on the membership

         2       on the other side of the aisle, so that we can

         3       all say that we are participating in this budget

         4       which is the budget of the Legislature and the

         5       Executive, and should be representative of each

         6       of us.

         7                      Thank you.  I vote in favor.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        11       Very briefly.

        12                      In order to raise $145 million

        13       from a cigarette tax at 17 cents a pack, that is

        14       853 million packs of cigarettes.  The figures I

        15       have from the Department of Finance indicate

        16       that last year their efforts resulted in a

        17       confiscation of 109,000 packs of cigarettes or

        18       what is probably 1/8th of one thousandandth of a

        19       percent or whatever of what is smoked.

        20                      I would have thought that with

        21       those kind of numbers, we would have had massive

        22       letters of support for this tax from organized

        23       crime.  For some reason, they decided not to











                                                             
2368

         1       write.

         2                      But I understand that there is

         3       now an appropriation floating around of $900,000

         4       to increase enforcement.  I really hope that

         5       that is taken seriously.  Because no matter what

         6       everybody else has said about this bill, whether

         7       you think it is going to help the health

         8       situation or one thing or another, there is

         9       undoubtedly now a major reason why people would

        10       bootleg.  And it seems to me that that has to be

        11       taken very seriously by the New York State

        12       Department of Taxation and Finance, and I hope

        13       that the $900,000 does accomplish that purpose.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Senator Gold,

        16       I'm going to agree with you.  I think this is a

        17       counterproductive tax, as most taxes are, but

        18       this is one that particularly, in my judgment,

        19       encourages organized crime.  It encourages

        20       buttlegging or bootlegging of cigarettes.  We

        21       have become way out of line with our adjoining

        22       states.  It's unfortunate.  It's very easy to

        23       say let's tax sin, but, in reality, I think that











                                                             
2369

         1       you're going to find that this is not going to

         2       raise the revenue that is expected.  It's also

         3       going to encourage a segment of our society,

         4       which I don't think we should be.

         5                      I know everybody would like to

         6       curtail smoking, particularly among our younger

         7       people.  I don't know that it's going to do

         8       that.  I just don't feel that it is a good idea,

         9       and I wish it wasn't there in this budget.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        11       section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

        18                      SENATOR COOK:  If I can explain

        19       my vote, please.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Recognized to

        21       explain his vote.

        22                      SENATOR COOK:  I think that as we

        23       talk about taxes, one of the very significant











                                                             
2370

         1       things in this budget is that property taxes in

         2       this state will be positively affected to the

         3       degree of about $380 million a year that the

         4       state is putting into the education system that

         5       the local property taxpayers are not going to

         6       have to put into it.  If you want to talk about

         7       tax reform, I think there is no place that we

         8       can impact taxes that hurt people more than in

         9       the property tax area, and I'm very pleased of

        10       what we have been able to do in that direction.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        12       DeFrancisco to explain his vote.

        13                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  I'm

        14       voting yes on this part of the budget.  I voted

        15       no on several spending measures, but I believe

        16       that a couple of things should be said.

        17                      The first one has already been

        18       said about the cigarette tax.  I guess Senator

        19       Volker said it very well.  I don't think you

        20       change people's behavior by tax policy.  You

        21       know, carrying this to its logical extreme, do

        22       we tax high cholesterol food so we can prevent

        23       heart attacks? Do we tax gum with sugar in it to











                                                             
2371

         1       prevent tooth decay? Where does it go from

         2       here? And I don't think it's going to raise the

         3       revenues that everyone says it's going to raise.

         4                      Secondly, I think even though

         5       there -- you know, this is a revenue package,

         6       there are certainly things that should be

         7       emphasized; and that is, there are a lot of fees

         8       and hidden taxes that were knocked out of this

         9       budget totalling about a billion dollars, and I

        10       think that's significant; that although no one

        11       likes to spend, there are certain programs that

        12       it has to be spent for.

        13                      And it may be politically popular

        14       to always vote against a revenue bill, but, on

        15       balance, this bill did much better than, quite

        16       frankly, I thought we were going to be at when I

        17       started this process.

        18                      Senator Cook mentioned another

        19       point that I think is extremely important,

        20       having been a member of a local legislative

        21       body.  Property taxes are sky-rocketing, and the

        22       reason they have been is that we haven't been

        23       adequately funding education, and it's been











                                                             
2372

         1       falling on the backs of the property owners, the

         2       real property owners, and I feel strongly that,

         3       hopefully, this will help reverse that trend so

         4       that local governments are not being strangled

         5       as they have been in the past.

         6                      So, although no one likes voting

         7       for a revenue bill had some of the spending

         8       bills that I voted against gone down, I might

         9       have voted differently on this.  The government

        10       has to be funded and, on balance, this is a good

        11       budget.

        12                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Mr. President,

        13       to explain my vote.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Masiello

        15       is recognized to explain his vote.

        16                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      Along the same lines.  I've

        19       listened to Senator Volker and Senator

        20       DeFrancisco talk about the cigarette tax not

        21       generating the revenues it's supposed to

        22       generate or we hope that it will generate.

        23       Quite frankly, one aspect of the revenue bill











                                                             
2373

         1       that I was hoping would be repealed and changed

         2       was the hotel tax that now we have in New York

         3       City and certainly affects all the hotels and

         4       tourism throughout the state of New York.

         5                      I know the Governor mentioned

         6       that he was leaning towards that.  I know that

         7       others in this body and the body across the hall

         8       were certainly very interested in repealing that

         9       tax.  Obviously, the monies generated from that

        10       tax, certainly, are not significant in light of

        11       the fact that the money we lost from tourism not

        12       coming to our major cities and our major tourism

        13       places of interest.

        14                      So I hope that we continue that

        15       dialogue, continue that conversation and,

        16       hopefully, some time in the future will be able

        17       to repeal that hotel occupancy tax so that we

        18       can stimulate the tourism industry in New York

        19       City and Niagara Falls and, quite frankly,

        20       throughout the state of New York because we are

        21       losing revenues more than that tax is producing

        22       revenues for us.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Smith is











                                                             
2374

         1       recognized to explain her vote.

         2                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      I, like my colleague, Senator

         5       DeFrancisco, have in previous years voted

         6       against the revenue bills.  But after review, I

         7       find that this year's revenue bills are much

         8       better than what I have seen in the past.  There

         9       are things in there that will benefit the state

        10       of New York in my estimation.

        11                      I have a great concern about the

        12       cigarette tax, and probably I will be one of

        13       those that will give it up, and it may be good

        14       for me personally.  But I'm greatly concerned

        15       about one piece of the cigarette tax and that is

        16       the tax at the wholesale level because of what

        17       we pass on to the smaller business people who

        18       cannot always afford to pay the taxes prior to

        19       getting the cigarettes.  And in communities such

        20       as ours where we have small bodegas, that is a

        21       problem.

        22                      But we all have to bite the

        23       bullet.  And, this year, I choose to bite the











                                                             
2375

         1       bullet and vote for what I feel is a much, much

         2       more equitable answer of obtaining revenue.

         3                      And, therefore, Mr. President, I

         4       vote in the positive.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Bruno is

         6       recognized to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.  To explain my vote.

         9                      I'm going to vote for this

        10       particular bill very reluctantly, as a lot of

        11       other people in this chamber are going to vote

        12       very reluctantly.

        13                      I think all of us have to bear in

        14       mind that we negotiated in this house with a

        15       Governor's budget that had 1,900,000,000 in

        16       taxes, fees and increased assessments in it.  We

        17       have taken it down through negotiations to where

        18       I believe there is about at least 400 million

        19       out in assessment, fees, some taxes.

        20                      Is that enough? No, it isn't.  I

        21       feel very strongly, and I know others do like

        22       me, that we should have been able to reduce

        23       taxes -- reduce taxes that we have been











                                                             
2376

         1       increasing over the last several years.  Why

         2       should we reduce taxes? Because the people of

         3       this state need a message that we in government

         4       understand that they are overtaxed.

         5                      It's no accident that we have

         6       lost more jobs in this state over the last

         7       several years than in any other state in the

         8       country -- 43 percent of all jobs.  So I think

         9       we have to recognize we have to deliver a

        10       message out there that we have to change the

        11       attitude of government towards business to

        12       create jobs.

        13                      So, Mr. President, I'm going to

        14       support this, but I believe many of us are going

        15       to be back talking about how we can reduce the

        16       taxes that are presently suffocating businesses

        17       in this state, creating the job loss.  We must

        18       reverse that trend.  So I'm going to be voting

        19       yes.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 409 are Senators

        22       Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Nolan, Pataki and

        23       Stachowski.  Ayes 54, nays 6.











                                                             
2377

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5       Can we return to Calendar 408, Senate 5653,

         6       which was laid aside earlier.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         8       read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       408, substituted earlier today, Assembly Bill

        11       Number 1353A, an act making appropriations for

        12       the support of government, aid to localities

        13       budget bill.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        15       section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        21       Stavisky.

        22                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr.

        23       President.  To explain my vote.











                                                             
2378

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stavisky

         2       is recognized to explain his vote.

         3                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  The

         4       Legislature under the provisions of the New York

         5       State Constitution is required to make provision

         6       for the maintenance and support of a system of

         7       common schools, public schools, and that is a

         8       constitutional obligation that is imposed upon

         9       this branch of government, since education under

        10       the provisions of the state Constitution is

        11       primarily a state responsibility which then, in

        12       turn, is delegated to the more than 700 local

        13       school districts.

        14                      The legislation that we have

        15       before us with regard to education makes minimal

        16       improvements.  A minimal improvement that is

        17       done with regard to the school district, the

        18       school district of the city of New York which I

        19       represent together with many other legislators

        20       in this chamber, is aided at a slightly better

        21       percentage than in the previous year.  I did the

        22       calculations.

        23                      New York City's percentage of the











                                                             
2379

         1       total aid has improved in new money by about 38

         2       percent.  But in total aid based upon all of the

         3       assistance for the school district, New York

         4       City's share is about 35 percent in this

         5       budget.  It's not easily stated but with a

         6       little calculation you're able to evaluate it.

         7                      Last year, New York City's share

         8       was about 38 percent of the share of the aid to

         9       education.  But this is a school district which

        10       has 37 percent of the population, and it seems

        11       to me that it is a school district that is not

        12       especially wealthy.  It is a school district

        13       that is beset by problems.  It is a school

        14       district that has the largest percentage of

        15       children for whom English is not the primary

        16       language, imposing upon the entire educational

        17       system additional burdens to instruct these

        18       children.

        19                      Secondly, it is a school district

        20       that has serious problems with regard to helping

        21       youngsters gain proficiency in basic skills,

        22       reading, writing, math.  It is a school district

        23       that is beset with social problems, children











                                                             
2380

         1       from broken homes, children of poverty level for

         2       whom there may be no two-parent family and there

         3       may be no opportunity for these families to

         4       afford the cultural enrichment that exists in

         5       other parts of the state.

         6                      I did I do not wish to draw

         7       invidious comparisons, but I must say that

         8       strictly on the basis of mathematical fairness,

         9       you do not underfund a district that has so many

        10       special problems, so many impoverished families,

        11       so much to do in order to bring children up to

        12       minimal competency in the basic skills.  We do

        13       not need other people in other parts of the

        14       country criticizing New York State and/or New

        15       York City as a place where they don't want to

        16       live, they don't want to visit and they lump us

        17       all together.  The members of the Legislature

        18       from other parts of New York State outside of

        19       the big cities, when attending conferences in

        20       other parts of the country, often find that you

        21       are lumped together with New York City in the

        22       perception of the public mind outside of this

        23       area.











                                                             
2381

         1                      Therefore, there is a mutuality

         2       of interest in doing the right thing with

         3       respect to educational funding.  And while this

         4       budget in a minuscule way improves the share

         5       that New York City school districts should

         6       receive, it is still substantially below the

         7       amount of money that should be provided.

         8                      Secondly, there are provisions

         9       here that are not based on any logic.  New York

        10       State's aid to education formula should be based

        11       upon a rational computation as to the number of

        12       pupils, the wealth of the district, and the

        13       special problems that exist.  There is no

        14       rational formula in the state aid to education

        15       budget.

        16                      Most of the districts in order to

        17       survive have to cling to save harmless

        18       provisions, which I am sure is not the way that

        19       legislators here throughout the state would want

        20       to go.  We should be giving aid, equitable aid,

        21       to children in all districts based upon the

        22       children who are there not based upon children

        23       who receive aid for save harmless, but they are











                                                             
2382

         1       no longer in the school system because save

         2       harmless means you get the same as last year,

         3       and then we continue it the same as the year

         4       before.  So we have save harmless, the son of

         5       save harmless, the grandson of save harmless;

         6       and after a while, there are school districts

         7       here getting aid to education based on

         8       calculations of the number of pupils and the

         9       wealth of the districts ten years ago.

        10                      For a while we began to reduce

        11       the number of save harmless districts; but,

        12       instead, the calculations are getting worse and

        13       worse, and more and more of the districts are on

        14       a save harmless rather than on a formula.

        15                      I intend to vote for this state

        16       aid budget, including aid to localities, because

        17       the school districts need to know how much money

        18       they will receive in the coming year.   Many of

        19       them outside of the cities have budget referenda

        20       where the voters must decide coming up in the

        21       next month or so, and they can not be kept in

        22       the dark, but this is not the way for us to go.

        23       This is not a formula-driven school aid











                                                             
2383

         1       package.  This is a mindless grab bag, and it is

         2       my hope that the leadership and the membership

         3       of this house will in the very foreseeable

         4       future begin to realize that we've got to have

         5       an equitable and meaningful formula on state aid

         6       to education.

         7                      With those caveats and with those

         8       reservations, I will vote in the affirmative.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan

        10       is recognized to explain his vote.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        12       very briefly.

        13                      While many of the things that my

        14       colleague has said are not ones that I wish to

        15       be argumentative about, I think it is important

        16       for us to recognize that when we deal with the

        17       education portion of this budget the arguments

        18       that have been advanced to the leadership and

        19       through the leadership by both sides of the

        20       aisle -- and I will speak for this side -- on

        21       behalf of the city of New York recognizing the

        22       special needs and the difficulty of a student

        23       population that in recent years has been driven











                                                             
2384

         1       by significant increases in immigration numbers

         2        -- 22,000 last year, 50,000 over the last

         3       several years -- expensive difficult student

         4       populations in terms of cost and the costs of

         5       providing an education.

         6                      However, this budget recognizes

         7       that fact, and I wish you not to accept my word

         8       on it.  I read a quote in today's New York Times

         9       from the president of the board of education.

        10       It says this budget helps us meet the staggering

        11       needs for education in New York City, an

        12       unequivocal statement from him, recognizing that

        13       this budget provides $145 million in additional

        14       funds to the city of New York as a result of the

        15       formula and as a result of the advocacy.

        16                      I think that's important for us

        17       to recognize.  I think it's important for us to

        18       acknowledge it bipartisan, both houses, both

        19       sides of the aisle initiative.

        20                      And on behalf of my colleagues

        21       from the city of New York in the Majority

        22       Conference, I want to tell you this was our

        23       priority, as well.











                                                             
2385

         1                      I vote aye.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Dollinger

         3       is recognized to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         5       President.  I rise to explain my vote.  I'm

         6       going to vote no against this.

         7                      As I said earlier, I think that

         8       my position on this whole process and, frankly,

         9       on the result that is achieved is one that

        10       discourages me.

        11                      But I did find in going through

        12       this budget, on 253, frankly, the mother of all

        13       the pork barrels, Mr. President.  I guess I'm

        14       astounded.  There's listed here -- apparently,

        15       we're going to underwrite the softball and

        16       football fortunes of a bunch of youngsters

        17       throughout -- I assume this is Long Island -

        18       Farmingdale, Plainedge.

        19                      I just had a solution for Senator

        20       Volker, who talked about our long-term revenue

        21       problems.  I've got a solution.  Since we're

        22       subsidizing them at the Little League level, why

        23       don't we just give them a surcharge when they











                                                             
2386

         1       make millions and billions.  In the era of free

         2       agency as baseball and football players, we'll

         3       just put a special surcharge on them twenty

         4       years from now, and we can tax them at a higher

         5       rate when they profit from our having subsidized

         6       them when they were in Little League.

         7                      I also just would point out that

         8       I think one of the great -- greatest of all, at

         9       least in my judgment, pork barrel items is when

        10       you give $25,000 to the North Amityville

        11       Taxpayers Association.  We're going to tax the

        12       people of the state of New York to give money to

        13       a taxpayer association whose position is that we

        14       shouldn't be taxing people.  Unbelievable that

        15       we would be giving money to the people who are

        16       going to tell us don't tax us.  Well, our

        17       message to them is we are going to tax you

        18       $25,000 to fund an organization that's going to

        19       tell us we're taxing too much.

        20                      I'd simply point out in response

        21       to my colleague, Senator Bruno, who said we have

        22       got to reduce taxes, and some of us in this

        23       chamber are going to talk about reducing taxes.











                                                             
2387

         1       The point, I think, gentlemen, is one that

         2       shouldn't be missed.  We talk, we talk, but we

         3       don't do anything about it.

         4                      I think that we at least owe it

         5       to the people of this state to be honest.  If

         6       we're going to tax them, let's tell them what

         7       we're taxing them for.  Let's justify that tax,

         8       and let's stand up and say we really need these

         9       kinds of services.

        10                      Turn to page 253 in this budget,

        11       and you will see the example that everyone in

        12       this state will look to when they say you don't

        13       need it.  You can't justify it.  It's the mother

        14       of all pork barrels.  And my view is that this

        15       is the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing.  It,

        16       frankly, casts doubt about the credibility of

        17       this entire process, about the entire taxing

        18       system in this state.

        19                      If we can't be honest, if we

        20       can't stand up and defend ourselves, as I think

        21       this is indefensible, we shouldn't be doing

        22       this.  Let's change the process.  Let's scrap

        23       the whole thing, go back, do it right.  We'll











                                                             
2388

         1       get better decisions, and we'll get a tax system

         2       that we can justify to the people of this

         3       state.  This one we cannot.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Jones.

         5                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes, I would like

         6       to rise at this point and explain my no vote and

         7       probably my explanation will apply to almost all

         8       of the no votes that I have made today.

         9                      I keep hearing -- the theme seems

        10       to be, we didn't do anything terribly negative,

        11       so it must be okay.

        12                      But my question is, what did we

        13       do positive? I don't see where we really did

        14       help the businesses, as they've been asking.  I

        15       agree with Senator Bruno that they are begging

        16       for some tax relief.  I don't see it here.

        17                      I don't see major cuts in this

        18       budget.  I, thank goodness, didn't make the

        19       promise so I guess I don't have to say I'd be

        20       breaking a promise by raiding the locked box,

        21       but we did.  Some of you did.  Whoever was here

        22       promised the taxpayers that that money would be

        23       a dedicated fund.  We're now going to use that.











                                                             
2389

         1                      But we found a solution.  We're

         2       going to borrow now to take care of what we're

         3       using.  And yet we sat here last night

         4       discussing debt reform, and I still see in here

         5       at least five different places where we have

         6       upped debt.

         7                      I'm, frankly -- I guess confused

         8       would be the simplest word to explain my

         9       feelings on this.  Discouraged, yes.  But it's

        10       not going to stop me from speaking and

        11       discussing what I think are terribly wrong, and

        12       we can't continue to do it.

        13                      Just a couple little things.

        14       Someone said to me there must be some good

        15       things in here for Rochester.  How can you vote

        16       no? Perhaps there are, but I would be hard

        17       pressed to find them in ten minutes.  And,

        18       frankly, that is not my job, to come here and

        19       only look, regardless of what position I were

        20       in, if I could effect the changes, to find some

        21       neat thing I could stick in here for my own

        22       community.  I thought our purpose here was jobs

        23       and the economy for the state of New York and











                                                             
2390

         1       the good of the whole state.

         2                      Certainly I'm happy that my

         3       school districts got more than I thought they

         4       were going to get a few weeks ago.  Certainly I

         5       can find things I'm happy about.  I'm glad TAP

         6       was restored.  I'm glad of lots of these things.

         7                      But then I look at things that

         8       I'm not happy about.  We cut probation.  But,

         9       then, under the same area here, which is going

        10       to be hit, by the way, to most counties because

        11       the salaries for those people -- and I believe

        12       probation is an alternative to incarceration.

        13                      In the same area, we have added

        14       five line items for crime in Nassau County.  I'm

        15       not familiar with the county.  And it's also for

        16       alternatives.  Perhaps they have more crime than

        17       the rest of the state.  I'm not sure.  But it

        18       kind of strikes me as a little strange that

        19       those things were added; and yet, statewide

        20       we've made a cut.

        21                      And then, just a couple other

        22       little things.  You know, I'm sure I could find

        23       thousands if I had the time to do this.











                                                             
2391

         1       Alzheimer's is certainly a cause that I would

         2       subscribe to and be happy about, but I see three

         3       line items to the same Alzheimer's in Long

         4       Island, but one of them we called an

         5       association.  The other one we called a

         6       foundation, and the other one we put two

         7       counties together in the same area and called it

         8       another association.  All three are items for

         9       the same fund.

        10                      And then the one that thrills me

        11       the most that we kind of laughed about in our

        12       conference, but it really isn't funny.  I

        13       honestly do not know what the military and naval

        14       are going to do with the Long Island Coalition

        15       for Fair Broadcasting.  Someone said maybe it's

        16       like -- what's the one, America Broadcasting?

        17       Right, Radio Free America.  I really would love

        18       to have somebody tell me what that is.

        19                      But my whole point is that, you

        20       know, I cannot vote yes even though, certainly

        21       like you, I can find things to be happy about.

        22       I have to vote no because I didn't come here for

        23       the status quo.  I came here because I wanted











                                                             
2392

         1       change.  And I'm going to continue to do this

         2       until I see what I'm looking for and what I

         3       think the people in the state of New York are

         4       looking for.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Pataki.

         6                      SENATOR PATAKI:  I'm going to

         7       vote for this budget.  The majority in this

         8       house used every ounce of its energy to try to

         9       get that change, Senator, but because that

        10       effort and that fight has been stymied every

        11       step of the way by your colleagues who make up

        12       the majority in the Assembly.  This side was

        13       fighting -- not just talking, but fighting as

        14       recently as last night to still try to get the

        15       Assembly Democrats to agree to changes that

        16       would allow a part of a tax cut program to go

        17       forward.

        18                      Just in the past few days, we

        19       have tried to get them to agree to expand the

        20       fingerprinting program that could have saved

        21       $300 million that would have been used by this

        22       side to cut taxes.

        23                      We tried to get New York City to











                                                             
2393

         1       simply comply with the present law that says

         2       that we have got to have workfare programs in

         3       place for appropriate welfare recipients, and

         4       the Assembly majority said no, and that would

         5       have saved another $200 million that we would

         6       have used for tax cuts.

         7                      And we offered a tax amnesty

         8       program that would have not cost anybody in this

         9       state anything, and that the Governor and this

        10       side recognized could have saved hundreds of

        11       millions of dollars by providing additional

        12       revenue that could have been used for tax cuts.

        13                      If that side is confused, if that

        14       side wants change, let me make a suggestion.  Go

        15       down the hall.  Talk to your colleagues in the

        16       Assembly in the Democratic Party who make up the

        17       majority.  Because this side has offered more

        18       than a billion dollars in cuts that could have

        19       been used to get rid of the hotel tax, that

        20       could have been used to lower the corporate

        21       taxes that -- the temporary corporate taxes,

        22       that could have been used to lower the personal

        23       income tax.  But every one of those efforts were











                                                             
2394

         1       blocked by your colleagues down the hall.

         2                      I vote no not because this side

         3       hasn't fought as hard as it could, but because

         4       those efforts at change have been blocked by

         5       your colleagues in the Assembly.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Goodman.

         7                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  To explain my

         8       vote.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Recognized to

        10       explain his vote.

        11                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

        12       I have listened carefully to some of the

        13       statements made by members on both sides with

        14       respect to why they have voted in the negative

        15       on this budget.  And I would like respectfully

        16       to point out to my friends, some of whom are

        17       relatively new to this house, that our major

        18       obligation as Senators is to make the railroad

        19       run on time.  When all is said and done if the

        20       train can't pull out of the station, if the

        21       budget cannot be adopted with a reasonable

        22       semblance of punctuality, the state will suffer

        23       unspeakable difficulties.











                                                             
2395

         1                      Every one of us like to go home

         2       and say I voted no against the budget, and in my

         3       voting no, I've shown how strong I am to stand

         4       up against the tide and to say that I will not

         5       tolerate any more increases in taxes and to say

         6       that demand further increase in cuts.

         7                      That sounds great, my friends,

         8       when you are absolutely certain in making such a

         9       declaration that it will not affect the outcome

        10       of the adoption of the budget.  But stop and

        11       ponder for a moment the implications of your

        12       negative votes if you were so persuasive that

        13       you actually got people to go along with your

        14       positions and prevented the budget from being

        15       adopted.  Then where would the people of New

        16       York be?

        17                      We profess great concern for

        18       these people, for our school children who

        19       benefit from this budget, for our transportation

        20       system which benefits for this budget, for each

        21       and every part of the complex mechanism which

        22       makes the state work.  By voting no for this

        23       budget, if you stop to think what it would mean











                                                             
2396

         1       if your views were extended throughout the

         2       house, the state would be in a stalemate.

         3                      Now, let's be clear.  From

         4       certain quarters in this state comes a

         5       thundering and tiring repetition of a

         6       proposition, "Bring the state to its knees,

         7       prevent the state from adopting budgets which

         8       you find objectionable." By bringing the state

         9       to its knees, it is asserted, and by reducing it

        10       to ashes, to mix the metaphor, we can then start

        11       anew and build a prouder and a better state, a

        12       more responsible state, where in this great

        13       ideal La-La Land there are nothing but tax cuts

        14       and expenditure cuts and everything is hunky

        15       dory; right?  Wrong.  Wrong.  Because the state

        16       can't work that way.

        17                      I've never voted for a budget

        18       that didn't have things in it to which I

        19       objected and I've never voted for a budget which

        20       did not have expenditures that I would rather

        21       have seen cut or taxes which I'd have rather

        22       seen cut.

        23                      But just to put this in proper











                                                             
2397

         1       perspective over time, it was this house and at

         2       these desks on this side where we originated the

         3       tax cut which took the personal income tax from

         4       15 percent to 7.875 percent, its present level.

         5       We would have loved to lower taxes further.  It

         6       would sound great, be wonderful to take it back

         7       home, but the fact is that circumstances do not

         8       permit that to be done.

         9                      So I, again, respectfully ask you

        10       to consider the implications of your actions,

        11       and please don't lecture to us about the

        12       irresponsibility of this budget.  The fact is

        13       this budget is being adopted nearly on time.

        14       The fact of the matter is it contains elements

        15       of a debt reform which will give us an

        16       opportunity to increase the rating of the state

        17       and bring it out of the basement in which we

        18       find ourselves.  And in all these respects,

        19       those who vote in affirmative are doing

        20       something responsible and for the true benefit

        21       of the people of the state of New York.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Marchi is

        23       recognized to explain his vote.











                                                             
2398

         1                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President.

         2       We should not make a fetish in honoring special

         3       gods.  We have a constitutional requirement to

         4       produce a budget on April 1st.

         5                      The only other jurisdiction on

         6       this planet who has a similar requirement is

         7       Japan.  And for a host of reasons, we are in

         8       that bind, and people have suggested that we

         9       change the framework for a more rational

        10       system.  But whenever you do that, you also find

        11       out that a host of considerations are raised

        12       that you have to meet.

        13                      I don't like the idea of saying

        14       that we have 37 percent of the students and we

        15       only have 34 or 35 percent of the money that

        16       comes into the city of New York as an argument

        17       that I could really endorse, because ever since

        18       Al Smith introduced the notion of equalization,

        19       equalizing opportunity for every child in this

        20       state.  And when I originally came to the

        21       Senate, it was a question of sparsity

        22       corrections because these states had maybe two

        23       and three and four thousand dollars in











                                                             
2399

         1       assessable property standing behind each child

         2       attending school.  The principle of equalization

         3       is still valid, and we practice it in some way

         4       even nationally.

         5                      We shouldn't get as much as

         6       Alabama in terms of percentages or Mississippi

         7       or states that have yet to take significant

         8       steps economically.  They are still in a

         9       position of disadvantage.  So that under our

        10       principle of progressivity -- and I suppose I'm

        11       one of few that regrets that fact -- because we

        12       have lost that sense of progressivity on both

        13       sides of the aisle, locally and nationally, but

        14       we cannot -- we cannot take comfort in the fact

        15       that if we try to distance ourselves from that

        16       principle of equalization.

        17                      Now, the one unit that -- the

        18       fact that a child constituted a unit, we

        19       departed from that in the early '60s.  And I

        20       remember Commissioner Keppel, who was President

        21       Kennedy's Education Secretary, complimented New

        22       York State because it was the first state in the

        23       union that recognized the principle of weighting











                                                             
2400

         1       for various aspects of disadvantage.

         2                      Could more work be done? I

         3       suspect there might be more work done.  There

         4       was a statement made by some -- well, I think it

         5       was in general discourse, and it came up during

         6       the question whether we should have been

         7       operating our schools during a snow crisis when

         8       we had those snowstorms, and everybody was

         9       required to go to school, which made no sense at

        10       all in my community of Staten Island.  But the

        11       other consideration was raised that in many

        12       districts these children would not have had a

        13       breakfast and lunch, and these are very

        14       significant considerations.

        15                      I believe that we ought to take

        16       pride -- we ought to take pride in what we do,

        17       not because it's perfect, not because it can't

        18       be improved.  These are human institutions, but

        19       in almost every aspect, if we have problems,

        20       it's because it is rooted in the fact that we

        21       recognize need and we recognize circumstances

        22       and adversity, when it strikes, require in a

        23       moral society a moral response.











                                                             
2401

         1                      Where we could -- where we could

         2        -- and I'm not saying this because we have a

         3       Democratic administration in Washington, because

         4       it's been true from time immemorial, that we

         5       don't control -- for instance, the state of New

         6       York has a lift in registered pupils in the city

         7       of New York equivalent to the school system in

         8       Rochester each and every year.  It seems like an

         9       exaggeration, but they assure me that this is

        10       correct.  But we don't control these aspects.

        11       And unless we have understanding from

        12       Washington, unless the federal government

        13       assumes the responsibility for those factors

        14       which make up dramatic increases in population

        15       and in the case of New York City a very, very

        16       heavy component of immigrants who eventually

        17       will add to the strength of our city but

        18       produces and impacts very seriously the finances

        19       of the city of New York.

        20                      We would have had a drop in

        21       registration had it not been for this heavy

        22       influx, but we don't get any support from

        23       Washington.  None.  And I believe that if we











                                                             
2402

         1       make serious attempts to improve, improve and

         2       inform our colleagues down in Washington of

         3       prospects that we face -- Senator Moynihan is

         4       chairman of the Appropriations Committee, I

         5       believe, and I don't think he distances himself

         6       from the concerns that we express here -- we

         7       might make more progress.

         8                      But as long as we cling to the

         9       principle of equalization, New York City has

        10       $86,000 standing behind each child in the city

        11       of New York.  There are a host of other problems

        12       but, educationally, this is enormous advantage

        13       when compared to many districts around the

        14       state.

        15                      So we ought to be more analytical

        16       and more perceptive of all of the aspects that

        17       go into a formula of this nature.  But I think

        18       represented in it is a process by which these

        19       extrinsic factors such as weighting have

        20       certainly improved and are addressed to the

        21       problem of serving the educational needs of the

        22       city of New York, which seems to be the focus of

        23       the discussion here today.











                                                             
2403

         1                      So I would ask my colleagues,

         2       whether you voted for or against, not to take -

         3       yes, it's healthy to have that critique, and it

         4       calls our attention, but we are two branches of

         5       government and an executive, and I believe that

         6       when all the considerations are made, comparing

         7       what has happened in terms of constant dollars

         8       over the past and the fact that recessionary

         9       factors have affected this area of the country

        10       far more significantly than other areas -- and

        11       this was not an inevitable result.  Other areas

        12       of this country ten years ago were suffering it

        13       out in the far west and the northwest.  So these

        14       cyclical impacts are bound to occur.

        15                      But let's not cringe and wring

        16       our hands and say that we have failed.  We have

        17       not failed.  In terms of constant dollars, we

        18       have redeployed that money in a way that I feel

        19       will be -- will have a greater impact on the

        20       well-being of the people of this state and, as

        21       also indicated to us, avenues where we can -

        22       that we can pursue with profit if we take a more

        23       optimistic view of our present circumstances,











                                                             
2404

         1       and what appears to me that we are making slow

         2       but steady progress in rectifying the very, very

         3       difficult position we have been in for the last

         4       several years.

         5                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mega.

         7                      SENATOR MEGA:  A point of

         8       information.  Are we on a roll call?

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  We are on a roll

        10       call, and there are at least three Senators who

        11       have requested time to explain their vote who

        12       have not yet been recognized.

        13                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President.

        14       May -- I don't wish to offend anyone explaining

        15       their vote and we do give sufficient time to

        16       explain the vote, but I would remind the Chair,

        17       if we are on a roll call, the explanation of a

        18       vote I believe is two minutes.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Chair is

        20       acutely aware of that fact; however, the Chair

        21       is not going to interrupt any Senator unless

        22       another Senator rises and makes a point of

        23       order.











                                                             
2405

         1                      Senator Nolan is recognized.

         2                      SENATOR MEGA:  A point of order.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mega.

         4                      SENATOR MEGA:  My point of order

         5       is this.  I didn't mean that we should cut

         6       anyone off.  You as the administrator of how we

         7       proceed, that's your judgment call.  I was just

         8       making a statement for the record.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  I don't think

        10       it's my judgment.  I think it's the rule of the

        11       Senate, but I understand Senator Mega's point.

        12                      Senator Nolan, recognized to

        13       explain his vote.

        14                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Briefly.  I'm not

        15       going to get into the obvious reasons why I feel

        16       that this bill is bad, but I have -- I really

        17       have to take exception to some things that

        18       particularly my good friend Senator Goodman

        19       said.

        20                      Now, for the benefit of Senator

        21       Jones and Dollinger and some of our newer

        22       members.  Senator Goodman talks about the -

        23       that the Republicans in the Senate voted to











                                                             
2406

         1       reduce the personal income tax from 15 percent

         2       to 7 percent.  But what he doesn't say is that

         3       those same Republicans voted during the

         4       Rockefeller years, including Senator Goodman, to

         5       raise the personal income tax to 15 percent and,

         6       in fact, 17 and a half percent, because one year

         7       they put a surtax on top of the personal income

         8       tax.  And it was that side of the aisle, was in

         9       the majority, raised those taxes up.

        10                      So I find it kind of difficult to

        11       sit here and listen to, say, somebody take

        12       credit for reducing the tax from 15 to 7, when

        13       they originally raised the tax to 17 and a

        14       half.  That's a little different.

        15                      Senator Marchi, my good friend,

        16       also, I have to take issue, talking about the

        17       responsibility of Washington to help the state

        18       of New York.  I think the state should get some

        19       help from Washington.  But the last 12 years,

        20       it's been his party down there in Washington,

        21       Presidents Reagan and Bush, who have reduced

        22       substantially federal aid to the state of New

        23       York.  So let's take that into consideration.











                                                             
2407

         1                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Masiello

         3       is recognized to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you very

         5       much, Mr. President.

         6                      A week ago or so, we debated

         7       Senator Padavan's maintenance of effort bill.

         8       And at that particular time, I thought there was

         9       a need for that maintenance of effort bill as it

        10       affects the five big cities, especially Buffalo,

        11       because of the lack of support from the Buffalo

        12       tax base to the board of education in Buffalo.

        13                      However, the new education monies

        14       are proof positive that we need a maintenance of

        15       effort or some kind of change in the attitude in

        16       funding the Buffalo public schools.  I was

        17       shocked to hear today that this new formula that

        18       takes into account the poverty index -- the

        19       poverty index -- did not generate the kinds of

        20       money I thought it would to my city, the board

        21       of education in Buffalo.  A city that has the

        22       highest teen-age pregnancy rate of any city in

        23       the state of New York per capita, that has











                                                             
2408

         1       36,000 children a day get free food because of

         2       the poverty level.

         3                      In inquiring why, the response to

         4       me was that the city's share of the new formula

         5       takes into account the local support of

         6       education.  Now, that just leads me to believe

         7       that we need that maintenance effort in

         8       Buffalo.  Because if we had an greater share of

         9       the local tax levy going to education in

        10       Buffalo, the state's share to that education

        11       would have been higher.

        12                      And let me just give you a couple

        13       statistics to supplement or substantiate what

        14       I'm saying.  In 1988 -- excuse me.  1985-86, the

        15       state increased education 15 percent from the

        16       prior year.  That same year, the city of Buffalo

        17       decreased aid to education 7 percent.  In

        18       1986-87, we increased education to Buffalo by

        19       another 15 percent, and the city decreased their

        20       share to education by 2 percent from the

        21       previous year.  In 1991, the state increased

        22       education to Buffalo by 25 percent, substantial

        23       and generous.  At the same time, the city of











                                                             
2409

         1       Buffalo decreased their aid to education by 3

         2       percent.

         3                      Over eight years, the state has

         4       increased education aid to Buffalo by 7-1/2

         5       percent, and in that same eight-year period, the

         6       city decreased their aid -- decreased their aid

         7       to education by one percent.

         8                      Clearly, the formula had to be

         9       changed at the last minute.  They had to improve

        10       upon that formula.  They had to add to that

        11       formula at the last minute, and I'm happy that

        12       the education people in this house and the other

        13       house saw to it to make those corrections, make

        14       those changes so that Buffalo would get a better

        15       increase than that formula would generate, and

        16       it only leads me to believe that we need a

        17       change in attitude towards funding education in

        18       our city.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber,

        20       did you want to explain your vote?

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes, very

        22       briefly.  I won't take up too much time.

        23                      I'm going to vote for this, and











                                                             
2410

         1       I'm going to vote for it because something

         2       drastic is happening in these chambers.  We find

         3       ourselves talking about our particular

         4       localities and not doing things in a collective

         5       manner.  It's a bad, bad habit we're getting in,

         6       very frankly.

         7                      So for the city of New York,

         8       they've changed the formula a little bit.

         9       They've started with not only attendance but

        10       population.  They've restored the drug money to

        11       the city of New York and a number of areas that

        12       we're basically concerned with where masses of

        13       people are impacted on it.

        14                      We educate in our district -- in

        15       the city of New York, rather, one-third of the

        16       total population in this state.  And I don't

        17       like everything that is in this piece of

        18       legislation, but if we're going to talk about

        19       segments and geographics and talk about

        20       particular areas -- and we're doing too much of

        21       it now; and as a result of it, we're going to be

        22       hurt more so in the city of New York.

        23                      We've got the largest prison











                                                             
2411

         1       population.  The only thing we really impacted

         2       on was the question of probation, which we would

         3       like to see a little better.  We've got a mass

         4       transit package that's there.  And Senator

         5       Goodman is absolutely right.  Our ratings are

         6       going to go up.  There's been some sense of

         7       reform.

         8                      And there's a lot of good things

         9       happening.  I want to congratulate each and

        10       every one, even those persons who will be voting

        11       no on this piece of legislation, because for the

        12       first time in a long time we've done an

        13       excellent job for so little, and we have

        14       something to take back home to be proud of.

        15                      Not a perfect budget.  And we can

        16       argue about the so-called member items that are

        17       not called member items.  As a result of the

        18       majority, you put them in.  And if we were in

        19       the majority, we would do the same thing.  Make

        20       no mistake about it.  But it's bothersome and

        21       troublesome to me, very frankly those of us on

        22       both sides of the aisle, particularly on my side

        23       of the aisle, who find it easier to vote no or











                                                             
2412

         1       easier to separate themselves from our caucus or

         2       our conference on issues that become extremely

         3       important to the city of New York.

         4                      The major population of this

         5       state, the city of New York.  We used to say

         6       help us a bit.  I got the feeling somewhere

         7       along the line we're not going to get much

         8       help.  We're not going to get much help from

         9       upstate New York.  We're not going to get it

        10       because I see a trend.  I see it happening now.

        11                      I wish we could promise each

        12       other that we would put a screeching halt to

        13       this.  Because the children in the city of New

        14       York are hurting, the population is hurting.

        15       We've changed the formula.  We've got -- the

        16       Governor of the state of New York is interested

        17       in changing the formula throughout the entire

        18       state of New York.

        19                      We've got attendance and

        20       population for the first time.  Yes, we're up a

        21       point or two, not where we should be, but we're

        22       up a point or two.  We've got a poverty index

        23       this time which adds another layer, too, to the











                                                             
2413

         1       educational budget.

         2                      And, as I said before, that mass

         3       transit is extremely helpful to us.  The health

         4       package that's there is helpful to us in the

         5       local assistance budget.

         6                      So I say on balance, if you

         7       will -- and I'll end on this note.  On balance,

         8       this isn't what we'd like to see.  It's an awful

         9       lot better than what I expected, very frankly,

        10       and I want to tell each and every one of my

        11       colleagues that it's been a collective effort,

        12       however you vote.  The fact of the matter, I can

        13       go back home and say no, I voted against it, and

        14       be a hero.  But the fact of the matter, we have

        15       a basic responsibility to deal with it.  We have

        16       a responsibility to bring a budget in and,

        17       collectively, we did it.

        18                      I vote aye.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford.

        20                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr.

        21       President.  I will just take a moment.  I think

        22       everyone has made their point.  They made it

        23       well.











                                                             
2414

         1                      I will say this.  This is rather

         2       trite.  But often something trite makes a great

         3       deal of sense.  Maybe that's why you hear it

         4       often.  If it's a good compromise, nobody is

         5       happy, and that's really what we're ending up

         6       with, obviously.

         7                      And I would say, as Senator

         8       Galiber just did and so many before him, I would

         9       point out there's so many things that I'm

        10       concerned about.  We are concerned about those

        11       who are in need all over the state, but I would

        12       point out we have to look at -- and we've got a

        13       lot of work to do.  The social services budget

        14       for the whole state including upstate went up 2

        15       billion, and education was only 500,000.

        16                      Now, my point is, Mr. President,

        17       we've got to continue to work toward

        18       administration, toward making sure that our

        19       dollars are spent well.  And I conclude with

        20       this.  I for one have learned the work that goes

        21       into this by all, by the staff, by the

        22       legislators, all in the Governor's office.  And

        23       when you get a complicated state like this, get











                                                             
2415

         1       a budget relatively on time, I think we can

         2       realize it is possible to work together.

         3                      Thank you.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         5       Secretary will report the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 408 are Senators

         8       Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Nolan and

         9       Pataki.  Ayes 54.  Nays 6.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in

        13       the chair. )

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        15       Present.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Are there

        17       reports of standing committees at the desk?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yes,

        19       they are.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we have

        21       them read, please.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        23       Secretary will read the reports of the standing











                                                             
2416

         1       committees.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino

         3       from the Committee on Rules reports the

         4       following bills directly for third reading:

         5                      Senate Bill Number 4246, by

         6       Senator Stafford, an act to amend the Racing,

         7       Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.

         8                      Also, Senate Bill Number 4367, an

         9       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and

        10       Chapter 345 of the Laws of 1968, relating to

        11       forming the United Nations Development

        12       Corporations.

        13                      Senator Johnson from the

        14       Committee on Environmental Conservation reports

        15       the following Assembly bill directly for third

        16       reading:

        17                      Assembly Bill Number 6997, by

        18       member of the Assembly Brodsky, an act in

        19       relation to nullifying certain rules and

        20       regulations applicable to California automobile

        21       emissions standards.

        22                      All three bills reported directly

        23       to third reading.











                                                             
2417

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

         2       bills reported directly to third reading.

         3                      Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         5       can we take up Calendar 414, 4246.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         7       Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       414.  Senator Stafford moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        11       6613 and substitute it for the identical Senate

        12       Bill 4246.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        14       Substitution is ordered.

        15                      Read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
2418

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         2       Can we take up Calendar 415, Senate 4367.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         4       Secretary will read it.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       415.  Senator Goodman moves to discharge the

         7       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         8       6360 and substitute it for the identical Senate

         9       Bill 4367.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        11       Substitution is ordered.

        12                      You can read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me.  Ayes

        22       59, nays one.  Senator Maltese recorded in the

        23       negative.











                                                             
2419

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         4       Can we take up Calendar 416, which is Assembly

         5       Bill 6907 -- 97.  97.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         7       Secretary will read it.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       416, by member of the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly

        10       Bill Number 6997, an act in relation to

        11       nullifying certain rules and regulations

        12       applicable to California automobile emission

        13       standards.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Leichter.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Just











                                                             
2420

         1       very briefly on the bill.  I just wish to point

         2       out this is a variation of a bill that we passed

         3       earlier, Senator Johnson's bill, that deals with

         4       the rules as they pertain to automobiles in

         5       order to meet the clean air requirements of the

         6       federal law.  This bill is essentially similar

         7       to Senator Johnson's bill except maybe a little

         8       more sophisticated -- well, Senator Johnson gets

         9       right to the point.  This bill requires a little

        10       few certifications.  But, essentially it bars

        11       the state from proceeding under rules that the

        12       DEC has promulgated that would phase in the

        13       California clean air cars for the purpose of

        14       having New York State try to meet the federal

        15       standards to improve air quality.

        16                      I just want to point out that

        17       Senator Johnson's bill was opposed by -- if I

        18       have the list -- by a number of members, and

        19       just wanted to bring it to their attention.

        20       Voting negative on Johnson's bill were Connor,

        21       Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery,

        22       Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, Goodman, Levy.

        23                      Thank you.











                                                             
2421

         1                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Goodman.

         4                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  The hour grows

         5       late, and I will be very brief on this.

         6                      There is one aspect of this which

         7       I do not think may have come to the house in

         8       earlier discussion, and that is the peculiar

         9       situation in which New York State automobile

        10       dealers find themselves as a result of the

        11       imposition of the California regulations which I

        12       favor.  If you are an automobile dealer in New

        13       York, however, you are barred by a set of

        14       circumstances from selling your cars with the

        15       California emission system to the neighboring

        16       states of Connecticut and Pennsylvania and

        17       probably several others.

        18                      Since a substantial number of our

        19       automobile dealers make a good deal their basic

        20       living in selling cross border when they are

        21       located contiguous to state borders, this

        22       creates a special hardship which I don't think

        23       any of us intended.











                                                             
2422

         1                      The specific purpose of this bill

         2       is to create a consistency so this cross border

         3       barring of sales will be eliminated.  And to

         4       that extent, however much as we may wish to

         5       effectuate proper emission control standards, we

         6       certainly don't wish to gut the businesses of a

         7       number of reputable and good citizens who make a

         8       living selling cars to people who may be coming

         9       in from neighboring states to buy their wares.

        10                      So that I bring this to your

        11       attention with the thought that it may not have

        12       been evident to you what is going on in this

        13       particular bill which has that purpose.

        14                      To do this thing right, we ought

        15       to get emission control standards consistently

        16       in the neighboring states so that cross state

        17       sales from New York to others is not messed up.

        18       Turns out accidentally it's a very vicious

        19       anti-business development, which I don't think

        20       any of us understood at the outset.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
2423

         1                      Hold on.  Senator Johnson on the

         2       bill.

         3                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  My strong right

         4       arm on the committee, Senator Leichter,

         5       explained that the added sophistication

         6       contributed by the Democratic members of the

         7       Assembly has made this a better bill, and I

         8       guess it's true, Mr. President.  Because in our

         9       house, we only got 85 percent of the vote, and

        10       they got 90 percent of the vote for this bill

        11       over there.  So I would say if anybody had any

        12       particular inhibitions about voting for Senator

        13       Johnson's bill should embrace the Brodsky-

        14       Bragman bill very, very strongly.

        15                      It's a good bill.  Overdue.  And

        16       certainly everyone should support it.

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Daly.

        20                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.  I,

        21       too, would like to make comments on Senator

        22       Leichter's words about the sophistication of

        23       this legislation.











                                                             
2424

         1                      And it's so sophisticated that

         2       obviously the Assembly doesn't realize that the

         3       proper title is Regional Administrator of the

         4       United States Environmental Protection Agency

         5       not the regional director.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         7       last section has been called for.  You can read

         8       it.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar 416 are Senators

        12       Connor, Espada, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery,

        13       and Oppenheimer.  Ayes 54, nays 6.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  That

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      Senator Connor, do you have a

        17       motion?

        18                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President, I

        19       move that the following bill be discharged from

        20       its respective committee and be recommitted with

        21       instructions to strike the enacting clause:

        22       Senate Print Number 4072.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without











                                                             
2425

         1       objection.

         2                      Senator Present.

         3                      Wait a second.  We have a motion

         4       from Senator Holland, Senator Present, if that's

         5       all right with you.

         6                      Senator Holland.

         7                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Could you star

         8       two bills for me? Calendar 377, Print Number

         9       2817; and Calendar 381, Print Number 48.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Both

        11       bills are starred at the request of the sponsor.

        12                      Thank you, Senator Holland.

        13                      Any other motions on the floor?

        14                      Senator Present.

        15                      (There was a pause in the

        16       proceedings. )

        17                      Senator Present, do you have some

        18       good news for us?

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Many people

        20       have been waiting for this.  And before I say

        21       it, I want to thank all the staff who have been

        22       working diligently night and day, many hours, to

        23       prepare the budget that has gone along and made











                                                             
2426

         1       it possible for us to at this time allow me to

         2       make this statement.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Let's

         4       hear it for the staff.

         5                      (Applause. )

         6                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Let me make

         7       a statement.  May I just add?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Sure.

         9                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  I, too, want

        10       to extend thanks, particularly to the staff, and

        11       Michael Rynasko is here representing the finance

        12       staff on the Minority side.  I want to

        13       particularly thank our finance staff for working

        14       under very, very difficult conditions at late

        15       hours, as did the Majority staff.  I think

        16       there's been a lot of good work done,

        17       particularly these last ten days.

        18                      And I join you in your

        19       commendation of everyone.  And to all, a very

        20       good holiday.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Here it is.











                                                             
2427

         1       Mr. President, there being no further business,

         2       I move that we adjourn until Monday, April 19,

         3       at 2:30 p.m., intervening days being legislative

         4       days.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         6       Fantastic.  The Senate stands adjourned until

         7       April 19, intervening legislative days.

         8                      (Whereupon, at 2:07 a.m., Senate

         9       adjourned. )

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14

        15