Regular Session - June 1, 1993
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 1, 1993
11 3:16 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate
3 will come to order. Senators will find their
4 seats.
5 If you will please rise with me
6 for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
7 Senator Libous.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: It is
9 my pleasure today on Disability Awareness Day to
10 introduce to my colleagues in the chamber the
11 Rome School for the Deaf that will be leading us
12 in the Pledge of Allegiance this afternoon.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate was led in
14 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag by children
15 from the Rome School for the Deaf, both verbally
16 and signing. )
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: In the
18 absence of visiting clergy, we will bow our
19 heads for a moment of silence.
20 (Whereupon, there was a moment of
21 silence. )
22 The Secretary will begin by
23 reading the Journal.
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1 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
2 Saturday, May 29. The Senate met pursuant to
3 adjournment. Senator Farley in the chair upon
4 designation of the Temporary President. The
5 Journal of Friday, May 28th, was read and
6 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing
8 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as
9 read.
10 The order of business:
11 Presentation of petitions.
12 Messages from the Assembly.
13 Messages from the Governor.
14 Reports of standing committees.
15 Reports of select committees.
16 Communications and reports from
17 state officers.
18 Motions and resolutions.
19 Senator Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
21 President. Could I ask that the Secretary read
22 Resolution Number 1589, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
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1 Secretary will read 1589.
2 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
3 Resolution Number 1589, by Senators Libous,
4 Marino, and all members of the Senate,
5 proclaiming Tuesday, June 1st, 1993, as
6 Legislative Disability Awareness Day in the
7 state of New York.
8 Whereas, the New York State
9 Senate Select Committee on the Disabled in
10 conjunction with the New York State Assembly
11 Task Force on the Disabled are sponsoring the
12 Thirteenth Annual Legislative Disability
13 Awareness Day.
14 It is the feeling of this
15 legislative body that persons with disabilities
16 merit our recognition as they realize the goals
17 of inclusion and equality in our communities and
18 society at large.
19 It is the intent of this
20 legislative body to recognize persons with
21 disabilities for the benefit to New York State
22 of their contributions to our economic,
23 educational and social growth.
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1 Among the activities scheduled
2 for this year's event will be performers from
3 the Rome School for the Deaf and the Broome
4 Developmental Center, who will provide musical
5 entertainment; this day will also include
6 sporting events featuring the Adirondack Thunder
7 wheelchair basketball team and the Area 10
8 Albany County Special Olympic Unified Volleyball
9 Team, with participation by legislative members
10 and staff.
11 Legislative Disability Awareness
12 Day will conclude with both the Assembly and
13 Senate considering legislation significant to
14 persons with disabilities.
15 Legislative Disability Awareness
16 Day provides individuals with an opportunity to
17 acknowledge and understand the legislative
18 process.
19 Now, therefore, be it resolved,
20 that this legislative body pause in its
21 deliberations to proclaim Tuesday, June 1st,
22 1993, as Legislative Disability Awareness Day at
23 the State Capitol, Albany, New York; and be it
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1 further
2 Resolved, that copies of this
3 resolution suitably engrossed, be transmitted to
4 select representatives of persons with
5 disabilities.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
7 resolution. Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you very
9 much, Mr. President. I just want to make some
10 brief remarks on the activities that have taken
11 place today.
12 It's been a very, very busy day
13 for a lot of people, and I want to stress the
14 importance of this day and what it means to a
15 lot of New Yorkers.
16 We are very pleased today to
17 share with the Assembly, our colleagues in the
18 Assembly, sponsorship of Legislative Disability
19 Awareness Day. What we have done throughout the
20 day is have many displays throughout the
21 Legislative Office Building that have programs
22 that deal with persons in New York State with
23 disability in giving them assistance and helping
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1 them with everyday needs.
2 I think the other thing we try to
3 do today, Mr. President, is try to enhance
4 throughout New York State the real meaning of
5 what it's like for an individual who has a
6 disability on an everyday basis.
7 There are a number of things that
8 have taken place in New York State and a number
9 of things throughout the United States with the
10 passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act
11 and, of course, a number of pieces of major
12 legislation that have passed this house in the
13 past and that will hopefully pass today. Our
14 goal here is to give a full meaning that there
15 are individuals with disabilities in this state
16 and that these individuals are no different than
17 anyone else. They have the same opportunities
18 and the same rights to living normal lives as
19 everyone else does.
20 I'm very pleased today to have a
21 couple of special guests, and I want to mention
22 them as we talk about this resolution.
23 Certainly, as I mentioned, we have the young
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1 people from the Rome School for the Deaf. They
2 have joined us again this year, and we want to
3 thank them for sharing in this busy day and by
4 leading the Pledge of Allegiance not only in
5 this chamber but also in the Assembly chamber
6 today. And to all of you on behalf of all of my
7 colleagues, I want to sincerely thank you and
8 invite you to come back again next year when we
9 celebrate Legislative Disability Awareness Day
10 again.
11 We also have with us Ms. Deaf New
12 York, Nancy Hlibok, who we will talk about in a
13 moment.
14 And we have Special Olympic Male
15 Athlete of the Year, Kevin Brown, who is up in
16 the gallery with his team today, and Kevin is
17 standing up, and we'll talk about Kevin in a
18 second, when we do two quick resolutions to
19 honor them.
20 Another guest we have with us is
21 Peter Crowley, and Peter is a remarkable
22 individual. He did a demonstration downstairs
23 with the Governor and some others, and Peter is
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1 an expert -- I believe a black belt, if I'm
2 correct -- in Tae Kwon Do, and he demonstrates
3 blindness Tae Kwon Do using sonic eyes and sonar
4 glasses, and he gave quite an incredible display
5 earlier today, and, as I said, the Governor and
6 others were there to witness it.
7 What we're trying to do today
8 again as we do each year is emphasize the need
9 to pass important legislation as it pertains to
10 people in New York State who have disabilities
11 and that this chamber is committed to continuing
12 its hard work in making a commitment to the
13 lives of all New Yorkers, including those who
14 have disabilities in New York State.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
16 resolution. All those in favor, say aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")--.
18 Those opposed, nay.
19 (There was no response. )
20 The resolution is unanimously
21 adopted.
22 We have two more resolutions.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Two more
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1 resolutions, yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
3 Libous.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
5 could we have the Secretary call up Resolution
6 1591 and ask that it be read, please.
7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
8 Resolution Number 1591, by Senators Libous,
9 Marino, and all members of the Senate,
10 commending Kevin Brown upon the occasion of his
11 designation as Special Olympic Male Athlete of
12 the Year.
13 Whereas, it is the sense of this
14 legislative body that those who give positive
15 definition to the profile and disposition of the
16 communities of the state of New York do so
17 profoundly strengthen our shared commitment to
18 the exercise of freedom.
19 Attendant to such concern and
20 fully in accord with its longstanding
21 traditions, it is the intent of this legislative
22 body to commend Kevin Brown upon the occasion of
23 his designation as Special Olympic Male Athlete
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1 of the Year.
2 Kevin Brown has been involved in
3 Special Olympics for more than 18 years; in the
4 past year, Kevin has competed at the area,
5 sectional, state and international levels of
6 Special Olympics.
7 Kevin Brown's training and
8 competition schedule is busy as he participates
9 in Volleyball, Basketball, Softball, Nordic
10 Skiing, Bowling, Athletics, and Powerlifting.
11 His competitive experiences are
12 diverse, and include a second place finish at
13 the International Special Olympic Summer Games
14 in Minneapolis in 1991 as a member of the NYSO
15 Unified Volleyball Team; he also competed in two
16 Nordic Skiing events in the 1989 International
17 Winter Games in Reno, Nevada.
18 Kevin is a custodial worker for
19 the Albany County Association for Retarded
20 Citizens and has a special security clearance
21 needed to enter the offices of the Albany Branch
22 of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
23 Kevin Brown's success mirrors an
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1 unyielding concern for the primacy of self
2 determination, for the prerogative of personal
3 initiative so paradigmatic to our American
4 manner.
5 Through his long and sustained
6 commitment to excellence in competitive sports,
7 Kevin Brown has so unselfishly advanced that
8 spirit of united purpose and shared concern
9 which is the unalterable manifestation of an
10 American experience.
11 Now, therefore, be it resolved
12 that this legislative body pause in its
13 deliberations and most joyously commend Kevin
14 Brown upon the occasion of his designation as
15 Special Olympic Male Athlete of the Year fully
16 confident that such procedure mirrors our shared
17 commitment to preserve, to enhance and to yet
18 effect that patrimony of freedom which is our
19 American heritage; and be it further
20 Resolved, that a copy of this
21 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
22 to Kevin Brown.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
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1 resolution. Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 There is not an awful lot that I
5 can add, except, Kevin, if you will stand one
6 more time. Kevin is certainly an outstanding
7 individual, who we should all be very proud of.
8 I know that many of us in this
9 chamber work from time to time and attend the
10 various Special Olympics. I know that in Broome
11 County I attend every year.
12 Kevin, on behalf of all of my
13 colleagues in the New York State Senate, we are
14 extremely proud of your efforts, the recognition
15 that you have received that is mentioned in this
16 resolution, and it's an honor for us to have you
17 here today. And I salute you.
18 (Applause)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
20 resolution. All in favor, say aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Those opposed, nay.
23 (There was no response. )
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1 The resolution is unanimously
2 adopted.
3 Senator Libous.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
5 President. I have one more resolution that I
6 would ask to be read, please, 1590.
7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
8 Resolution 1590, by Senators Libous, Marino, and
9 all members of the Senate, honoring and
10 commending Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok.
11 Whereas, it is the sense of this
12 legislative body that those who give positive
13 definition to the profile and disposition of the
14 communities of the state of New York do so
15 profoundly strengthen our shared commitment to
16 the exercise of freedom.
17 Attendant to such concern and
18 fully in accord with its longstanding
19 traditions, it is the intent of this legislative
20 body to honor and commend Nancy Sherman
21 Elizabeth Hlibok for her distinguished tenure as
22 Ms. Deaf New York.
23 Throughout her tenure, Nancy
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1 Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok's characteristic
2 commitment to the deaf and hearing impaired
3 never wavered.
4 As Ms. Deaf New York 1991-1993,
5 Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok attended deaf
6 mainstreaming schools in New York State to set a
7 positive example for these children to help
8 build their self-esteem; gave presentations in
9 Washington, D.C., Maryland, New York, Finland,
10 Switzerland and Austria to sign language
11 students; was a spokesperson for the deaf
12 community in New York City at VESID, a
13 conference at Hofstra University; represented
14 New York at the National Pageant in Denver,
15 Colorado and came out as a second runner-up; and
16 gave lectures at various organizations in New
17 York State.
18 Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok
19 will graduate from Gallaudet University with a
20 Bachelor of Arts Degree in May 1993.
21 Her collegiate history is a
22 chronology of compelling dimension; she has
23 served at Gallaudet University as: An Intern at
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1 the International Center of Deafness; Student
2 Tour Guide at the Visitors Center; and Tutor for
3 Government and Latin Courses.
4 In addition, Nancy Sherman
5 Elizabeth Hlibok served as an Intern at the
6 World Federation of the Deaf in Helsinki,
7 Finland.
8 The life of Nancy Sherman
9 Elizabeth Hlibok mirrors an unyielding concern
10 for the primacy of self-determination, for those
11 prerogatives of personal initiative and
12 accountability so paradigmatic of our American
13 manner.
14 Through her long and sustained
15 commitment to the efflorescence of human
16 dignity, Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok has so
17 unselfishly advanced that spirit of united
18 purpose and shared concern which is the
19 unalterable manifestation of our American
20 experience.
21 Now, therefore be it resolved,
22 that this legislative body pause in its
23 deliberations and most joyously honor and
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1 commend Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok, fully
2 confident that such procedure mirrors our shared
3 commitment to preserve, to enhance, and to yet
4 effect that patrimony of freedom which is our
5 American heritage; and be it further
6 Resolved, that a copy of this
7 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
8 to Nancy Sherman Elizabeth Hlibok.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
10 Libous.
11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 Earlier today, Nancy Hlibok spoke
14 to us downstairs on the third floor; and in her
15 remarks she referenced when she was a small
16 little girl she went to a grocery store with her
17 parents, her parents who are also deaf, and she
18 recognized that someone was talking and she -
19 Nancy, I hope I say this close to accurate. She
20 looked at her mother and she said, "Why are
21 those people different?", those people that were
22 talking. And her mother basically said to her
23 at that time, is that, we are all equal but we
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1 are all different, and some people talk and some
2 do not.
3 And I think that really is what
4 we want to sum up today in not only honoring
5 Nancy but everyone else and the message that
6 we're trying to portray here in the Senate when
7 we talk about Disability Awareness Day: That we
8 are all equal, but yet we are all different in
9 many ways and that many times, we need to be
10 aware of this.
11 And unfortunately, we tend to -
12 I think as a society to avoid or walk away or
13 not work with people and talk with people who
14 are disabled, and I think that is wrong, and I
15 think that the message we're trying to portray
16 today through Nancy and through many others is
17 that people with disabilities are no different
18 than anyone else and that they do share normal
19 lives and that, as you can see from this
20 resolution, Nancy certainly has some tremendous
21 qualities that she has shared.
22 And so, Nancy, again on behalf of
23 all my colleagues here in the Senate, we honor
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1 you today, and your parents are certainly
2 welcome to stand up as we salute you.
3 (Applause)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5 Oppenheimer.
6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you
7 very much, Mr. President.
8 You may have noted that I came
9 over to this side. I am studying sign language,
10 and it's not an easy language, let me tell you,
11 but it's a very rewarding language because it's
12 so descriptive. You see the hand movement.
13 They are so descriptive of what the words are
14 and what you want to convey -- you know, from
15 the heart.
16 And I want to also second what
17 Tom said as far as productive lives. About a
18 third of my family is deaf and my sister-in-law
19 has worked for 25 years in Chase Manhattan Bank
20 in a very responsible job. My brother-in-law
21 has been with an aerodynamics firm. My nephew
22 is the principal of a deaf school, and my niece
23 is one of the heads of admissions, was at Gal
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1 laudet, and is now at Rochester Institute. So
2 they lead very wonderful productive lives. They
3 can be part of society, the speaking society or
4 they can be within their own deaf community.
5 But I must say that I have never
6 seen people that are happier than the deaf
7 people, and I think it is something special.
8 Perhaps their silence is what gives them this
9 specialness and this great affection and caring
10 for one another, and they are the most beautiful
11 people I have ever met.
12 And I just wanted that to be on
13 record. Thank you, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank
15 you, Senator. On the resolution. All in favor,
16 say aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Those opposed, nay.
19 (There was no response. )
20 The resolution is unanimously
21 adopted. The young lady is here.
22 Nancy, on behalf of the New York
23 State Senate, congratulations. We are very
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1 proud of you.
2 (Applause. )
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 Present. There's some motions on the floor if
5 you wish to go to them.
6 Senator Saland.
7 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
8 on page 16, I offer the following amendments to
9 Calendar 643, Senate Print 4545A, and ask the
10 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
11 Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
13 Amendments received. The bill will retain its
14 place.
15 SENATOR SALAND: Continuing, Mr.
16 President. On behalf of Senator Lack, on page
17 26, I offer the following amendments to Calendar
18 Number 864, Senate Print 4768, ask that that
19 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
20 Calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
22 objection.
23 SENATOR SALAND: On behalf of
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1 Senator Levy, on page 35, I offer the following
2 amendments to Calendar 727, Senate 4887, and ask
3 that the bill retain its place on the Third
4 Reading Calendar.
5 And on behalf of Senator Tully,
6 on page 16, I offer the following amendments to
7 calendar 653, Senate 2689, and ask that that
8 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
9 Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
11 Amendments received. The bills will retain
12 their places.
13 Senator Sears first, then I'll go
14 to you, Senator Larkin.
15 SENATOR SEARS: Mr. President, on
16 page 20, I offer the following amendments to
17 calendar 732, Assembly -- Senate Print 3875, and
18 ask that the said bill retain its place on the
19 Third Reading Calendar.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Gold, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR GOLD: I checked out that
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1 request with my chief of staff, Jack McPadden,
2 and we have no objection to that.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
4 objection.
5 Senator Sears, you still have the
6 floor.
7 SENATOR SEARS: Would Senator
8 Gold please repeat what he said? I didn't hear
9 him.
10 (Comment off the record. )
11 Oh, okay.
12 Mr. President, on page 31, I
13 offer the following amendments to Calendar
14 Number 178, Senate Print 1129, and ask that said
15 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
16 Calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
18 objection.
19 Senator Larkin.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
21 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 2071,
22 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the
23 desk.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
2 Secretary will read it.
3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
4 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 2071, an act to amend
5 the General Municipal Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
7 Larkin.
8 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
9 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
10 bill was passed.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
12 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
13 (The secretary called the roll on
14 reconsideration. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
17 bill is before the house.
18 Senator Larkin.
19 SENATOR LARKIN: I now offer the
20 following amendments.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
22 Amendments received. The bill will retain its
23 place.
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1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
3 Johnson.
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
5 on page 16, I offer the following amendments to
6 Calendar Number 647, Senate Print Number 2477,
7 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
8 Third Reading Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
10 objection, the bill will retain its place.
11 Senator Kuhl.
12 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
13 President. Last Wednesday, I was out of the
14 chamber when votes were taken on Calendar Number
15 825 and also Calendar Number 848. I would like
16 the record to reflect that had I been in the
17 chamber when the vote was taken, I would have
18 been recorded in the negative on both those
19 calendar numbers.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
21 record will so show.
22 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are
4185
1 there any other motions on the floor?
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
4 can we please take up the non-controversial
5 calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
7 Secretary will read the non-controversial
8 calendar.
9 THE SECRETARY: Page 30, Calendar
10 Number 62, by Senator Levy.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
13 aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
15 Calendar Number 317, by Senator Libous.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
18 aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 333, by Senator Volker, proposing amendment to
21 the Constitution.
22 SENATOR GALIBER: Lay it aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber,
4186
1 you said to lay it aside, sir?
2 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 344, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
7 1703A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
8 Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 427, by Senator Nolan, Senate Bill Number 3438A,
21 an act to amend the city charter of the city of
22 Cohoes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4187
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 434, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number
12 3722A, Education Law and the State Finance Law.
13 SENATOR JONES: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
15 aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 441, by Senator Holland.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
20 aside.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: For a day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the
23 day.
4188
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 465, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 643A,
3 Emergency Housing Rent Control.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 491, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
9 4280A, incorporate the Adams Center Fire
10 Department Benevolent Association.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 494, by
22 Senator Libous.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
4189
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
2 aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 553, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 3281A,
5 establish a library district in the town of
6 North Greenbush.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 623, by member of the Assembly Luster, Assembly
19 Bill Number 5913A, authorizing the conveyance of
20 certain real property of the state of New York.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4190
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 625, by Senator Libous.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 486, by Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 747, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
20 4540B, Executive Law, in relation to creating
21 the New York State Committee for the
22 Coordination of Police Services.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4191
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 791, by member of the Assembly Cahill, Assembly
12 Bill Number 5789A, Domestic Relations Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4192
1 805, by Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
4 that bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 827, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 45...
7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
9 that bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 916, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill -
12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
14 aside.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes,
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Instead of
19 calling them all out, can we lay aside 916, 917,
20 918, 919, 920, 921 and 922 and 924.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
22 bills are laid aside, and 924, all laid aside.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: 923 will be
4193
1 laid aside for the day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 923 is
3 aside for the day.
4 Senator Present, that takes us
5 through the first time.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
7 on behalf of Senator Levy, I would like to
8 please remove the sponsor star on Calendar
9 Number 62, Senate Print 80.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
11 objection, the star is removed.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
13 I would like to ask unanimous consent to suspend
14 Rule VIII, Section 7 (c), so that Calendar Num
15 ber 62 can have its third reading at this time.
16 SENATOR GOLD: No objection.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
18 objection.
19 Secretary will read Calendar
20 Number 62.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 30,
22 Calendar Number 62, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill
23 80, an act in relation to requiring the
4194
1 Commissioner of Transportation to conduct a
2 review of the transportation of disabled
3 children.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
6 temporarily.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
8 aside temporarily.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 317, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 2060,
11 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and the
12 Public Health Law, in relation to creating the
13 New York State Traumatic Brain Injury Institute.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bill is passed.
4195
1 Senator Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
3 call up Calendar 494.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 494.
5 The Secretary will read it.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 494, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
8 3517B, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in
9 relation to prohibiting discrimination on the
10 basis of disability.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
20 bill is passed.
21 Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 625,
23 please.
4196
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 625.
2 The Secretary will read that one.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 625, by
4 Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 3815B,
5 General Business Law, in relation to motorized
6 wheel chair warranties.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1,
15 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
17 bill is passed.
18 Senator Present.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 686,
20 please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 686.
22 The Secretary will read it.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4197
1 686, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4489,
2 an act is to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
3 in relation to increasing the amount of a fine
4 imposed for illegally parking.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
6 the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: His 45, nays 1,
13 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
15 bill is passed.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 805,
18 please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 805.
20 The Secretary will read that one.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 805, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
23 2293A, an act to amend the Education Law, the
4198
1 State Finance Law, and the Vehicle and Traffic
2 Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
12 bill is passed.
13 Senator Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
15 Calendar 916, and then regular order following
16 that.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 916,
18 and then the Secretary will follow regular
19 order.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 916, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number
22 3184A, an act to amend the Election Law, in
23 relation to polling places for physically
4199
1 disabled voters.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
11 bill is passed.
12 We are going to start with
13 Calendar Number 333.
14 No? Senator Present, what's your
15 pleasure on this?
16 SENATOR PRESENT: I may have not
17 correctly spoken. Go through 917 through the
18 balance.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 917
20 through the rest of the calendar.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 917, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
4200
1 3814A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
2 Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 918, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 4066,
15 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
16 relation to improvements required by the
17 Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
23 the roll.
4201
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 919, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 4215A,
7 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
8 allowing the deduction from gross income for
9 expenditures for a guide.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 920, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4762,
22 Economic Development Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4202
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 921, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4881,
12 Education Law, in relation to procedures for
13 conducting impartial hearing for students with
14 disabilities.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
4203
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 922, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 5056,
4 an act to amend the Tax Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
6 the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 924, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
17 5439B, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
18 Law, in relation to design specifications for
19 new, repaved or repainted handicapped parking
20 spaces.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4204
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
7 bill is passed.
8 Senator Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 let's go to the controversial calendar, please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
12 Controversial. Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: On page 30,
14 Calendar Number 62, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill
15 Number 80, an act in relation -
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
18 temporarily.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
20 aside temporarily.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 333, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 800A,
23 proposing amendment to the Constitution in
4205
1 relation to the imposition of the death penalty.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
4 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Volker.
5 (Whereupon, there was a pause in
6 the proceedings. )
7 SENATOR ONORATO: Explanation
8 satisfactory. Read the last section.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
10 Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
12 in order to accommodate a member or two, can we
13 have the last section of this bill read?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There
15 is no last section, of course. On the
16 resolution, how do you vote, Senator Sears?
17 SENATOR SEARS: Aye.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
19 Leichter.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are
22 there any other ones, Senator Present?
23 SENATOR PRESENT: No, but while
4206
1 we're at this, can we suspend this one
2 temporarily and call up and read the last
3 section on Calendar 465.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 465.
5 The Secretary will read the last section of 465.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 465, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 643A,
8 Emergency Housing Rent Control Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
14 Sears, how do you vote?
15 SENATOR SEARS: Aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
17 Leichter, how do you vote?
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Nolan, how do you vote?
21 SENATOR NOLAN: No.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4207
1 Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Suspend the
3 roll call.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Suspend
5 the roll call. Lay the bill aside.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Right.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
9 Gold.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, with regard
11 to Senator Volker's bill, if we could once again
12 open up the roll call. Senator Nolan has to
13 attend to some very important matters. He has
14 discussed every single one of them with me, and
15 I know it's urgent. So if we could call his name
16 and let him vote.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
18 Present, do you agree?
19 Read the Resolution 333.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 333, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 800A,
22 proposing amendment to the Constitution.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do
4208
1 you vote on that resolution, Senator Nolan?
2 SENATOR NOLAN: No.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: He
4 votes no.
5 Suspend that roll call. Lay that
6 resolution aside. Oh, we're on that resolution,
7 is that right?
8 Senator Volker, there has been an
9 explanation asked for.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: All right.
11 Fine.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
13 roll call has been suspended.
14 SENATOR VOLKER: Thank you.
15 Mr. President, let me just start
16 out by very quickly giving a quick resume of how
17 we arrived at this Constitutional Amendment.
18 It's pretty clear. I don't think
19 I have to tell anybody in this chamber, over
20 the years, we have done death penalty
21 legislation. This house for many, many years
22 has passed legislation not only with a majority
23 vote but normally with enough votes to
4209
1 override. The bills have been vetoed by
2 Governor Carey and, later, by Governor Cuomo and
3 we have on numerous occasions attempted
4 overrides and been unsuccessful.
5 The Assembly within the last
6 several years was within several votes of
7 overriding. In fact, for various reasons, it
8 was our belief that the Assembly was actually
9 within one vote of overriding at a point last
10 year before the reapportionment.
11 In all candor and as many of you
12 in this chamber know, I am very practical at
13 this sort of thing. We lost a number of votes
14 in reapportionment, several votes in this house
15 and a number of votes in the Assembly. In
16 anticipation of the possibility of that last
17 year, in fact for several years, we had been
18 working on an alternative.
19 Those of you who know me know how
20 strongly I feel about this issue. When the
21 death penalty was abolished in this state in
22 1965, I was at that time in law enforcement, and
23 I saw the impact, what we believe to be the
4210
1 impact, on a very personal level of what
2 happened when the death penalty was abolished.
3 I have used the analogy -- and I
4 laugh at people who have said that there is no
5 such thing as deterrence. I have used the
6 analogy because it was so clear to anyone who
7 would look to when the Legislature -- and I
8 wasn't here at the time; my father was here -
9 passed unauthorized use of a motor vehicle as
10 regards to stolen cars. The intention was very
11 good. The reason was that so many young people
12 were stealing cars, but the feeling was that
13 theft of cars was a fairly manageable kind of
14 crime. So the Legislature passed unauthorized
15 use of a motor vehicle, which meant that the
16 theft of a car was reduced from grand larceny to
17 what amounted to petit larceny, a misdemeanor.
18 Within three years, the amount of
19 cars stolen in this state not only doubled,
20 quintupled, but went up ten-fold. The law
21 enforcement department I was with was chasing
22 stolen cars around so much, we had difficulty
23 keeping track of anything else.
4211
1 Except there was one other thing
2 that we had a lot of trouble keeping track of,
3 like most law enforcement people. After the
4 death penalty was abolished, we started finding
5 bodies.
6 As I pointed out to someone today
7 that I was talking to, there are a number of
8 people who are still in prison who I personally
9 dealt with one way or another who committed
10 murder and who either threatened me or
11 threatened people close to me, and I can tell
12 you that the trouble I think we have with the
13 issue of the death penalty is it is hard for
14 those of us who are in this chamber or anyone
15 who has not dealt personally with murders to
16 understand the impact of death penalty
17 legislation.
18 I firmly believe that a turning
19 point in this state -- and you can see it in the
20 numbers, a turning point in this state as far as
21 murder and serious crime was a time in 1965 when
22 this Legislature in good faith at a time when
23 murder was not near as prevalent passed
4212
1 legislation that abolished the death penalty.
2 Within a matter of a few years, the murder rate
3 burgeoned to a point that within six or seven
4 years it reached proportions that no one really
5 had anticipated at the time. It doubled and
6 then eventually tripled.
7 The interesting thing is that we
8 have, in the last few weeks, talked in this
9 session about the proliferation of drugs and
10 guns. And yet, what I think a lot of people
11 don't realize is if you want to blame the murder
12 rate on drugs and guns, you better realize
13 something, that that murder rate didn't go up
14 during the guns and drugs time. It went up long
15 before that. The surge of murder in this state
16 came within a few years after we abolished the
17 death penalty in this state.
18 I have often said that one of the
19 things about anti-death penalty people across
20 this country, they always worried about New
21 York, and the reason they worry about New York
22 is that no other state that I know of or that
23 they know of showed such dramatic increase in
4213
1 murder after the death penalty was abolished.
2 What they really are concerned about not that
3 they're not -- that they wouldn't like to see
4 murder decline, but I think many of them are
5 afraid that when we restore the death penalty,
6 if a decline in murder shows in this state, it
7 will have a huge impact on the entire country.
8 It is something that I have
9 looked for for many, many years. I know there
10 are many that don't agree on the death penalty.
11 I understand that, but I would tell you this.
12 There are many of us that feel so strongly about
13 this issue that we feel that this is -- not the
14 only criminal justice issue, because there is no
15 one issue that is going to deal with crime in
16 this state which unfortunately deal with family
17 breakups and everything has created such a
18 burden, but there is no question that there is
19 no greater signal that we can send to the street
20 in the opinion of many people than a death
21 penalty bill.
22 For a number of years the
23 Governor challenged myself and a number of us to
4214
1 put the issue of the death penalty to the vote
2 of the people. He even chided us at one point
3 for not doing a Constitutional Amendment. As I
4 think you all know, the Governor has been pretty
5 silent for the last year. The reason is that the
6 Constitutional Amendment he was talking about
7 was one that many of us felt really wouldn't
8 work.
9 The Constitutional Amendment we
10 are proposing today we believe very firmly will
11 work and will restore the death penalty to New
12 York. It is a limited Constitutional
13 Amendment. What it does basically is a
14 Constitutional Amendment that would put the
15 death penalty back in this state and use the
16 legislation that was previously passed and which
17 previously is still on the books would define
18 murder first as the killing of police officers,
19 correction officers, actually employees of
20 correctional institutions, and killing by
21 lifers.
22 The expansion of the death
23 penalty, then, would have to be done by the
4215
1 normal manner, that is, by implementing
2 legislation. It was suggested to us at one
3 point, by the way, and there are people who
4 proposed Constitutional Amendments that would
5 totally eliminate the Governor, because of
6 course the veto power of the Governor has been a
7 central reason why we have been unable to
8 restore the death penalty in this state. The
9 reason we did not do that was for the very
10 reason that some people have tried to criticize
11 us for this Constitutional Amendment; and that
12 is, that we do not intend to change the system
13 and turn it on its head and create such
14 confusion that we will have long-term
15 litigation.
16 The people who have memoed
17 against this bill, one group in particular,
18 several very prominent attorneys, very competent
19 attorneys, who were asked by the Assembly to
20 look at this proposal, basically said this. We
21 don't like it. You people can win with this
22 and, therefore, we don't like it because we're
23 opposed to the death penalty. If you read it,
4216
1 that's what it says.
2 What this Constitutional
3 Amendment does is to restore the death penalty
4 to this state; in other words, if this passes
5 two consecutive legislatures, this Legislature
6 and a Legislature to be elected in '94, then it
7 would go to the voters in November of 1995, and
8 the voters could vote on the issue of the death
9 penalty.
10 Now, some people have said they
11 are not voting on the issue of the death
12 penalty. Yes, they are. They vote on the issue
13 of whether the death penalty should be put in
14 the Constitution knowing full well that the
15 implementing legislation is already there for a
16 piece of the death penalty, and knowing full
17 well that the rest of the -- that movement will
18 then be made to restore the death penalty after
19 that.
20 Basically, that's what this
21 Constitutional Amendment does. It restores the
22 death penalty of this state. Some have said,
23 well, you are trying to get around the
4217
1 Governor. Yes, I guess that's true. Remember
2 this, that substantial majorities in both houses
3 of this Legislature have passed the death
4 penalty year after year. Those who would try to
5 deny that the people of this state are strongly
6 in favor of the death penalty, frankly haven't
7 looked at the numbers that virtually anybody who
8 has ever done any kind of polling in this state
9 has done; and, frankly, I think you would have
10 to say that the reason we don't have a death
11 penalty in this state is very honestly because
12 so few people vote in this state; and,
13 therefore, do not put their vote where their
14 feelings are.
15 Now, what this Constitutional
16 Amendment will do, and I assume it will
17 eventually pass the Assembly no matter what is
18 being said because an Assembly that has already
19 passed death penalty legislation year after year
20 after year despite their reluctance is going to
21 eventually end up doing it.
22 What will happen is that, when
23 this passes two consecutive legislatures, then
4218
1 if will go to the voters, and we will have
2 reestablished the death penalty. In the
3 meantime, by the way, let's make no mistake. I
4 do not intend not to pursue the normal route
5 which is the normal legislative route. And if we
6 do get the votes to override, then we will
7 certainly attempt the override. But in the
8 meantime, I think that this is the most -- under
9 the circumstances we have that is a way to
10 accomplish -- admittedly on a more long-term
11 basis, but admittedly a way to accomplish what
12 we have tried to accomplish for many years, and
13 that is to restore the death penalty.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Galiber.
16 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr.
17 President. Mr. President. I have been here
18 long enough to know that on this particular
19 issue of the death penalty, minds have pretty
20 much been made up. And as we talk and debate
21 about it, the best hope we have is those who
22 come in changing their view or establishing
23 their view.
4219
1 But, Mr. President, I rise for a
2 different reason. I am no longer prepared to
3 argue the cost of this legislation, no longer
4 want to talk about the deterrent factor, no
5 longer want to talk about interpretation of the
6 Bible, whether Cain and Abel whether that was
7 the first recorded homicide or not, not prepared
8 to discuss or debate any longer whether the
9 death penalty impacts on a particular ethnic
10 group or not.
11 I rise, Mr. President, today in a
12 sad state because what we are attempting to do
13 here today brings somewhat of a tear in my eye,
14 and I mean that sincerely. I don't get
15 emotional about too many things, but I can
16 recall back in 1967, and we have here just one
17 member who was with me at the time -- no, I was
18 with him -- and that's John Marchi. And the
19 other person was a competent staff person Manny
20 Gold.
21 Senator, nobody but nobody has
22 any more respect for you than I do, and we say
23 that from time to time, and it almost comes in
4220
1 the category of massaging. But not so. You are
2 a man of great integrity. Integrity spells out
3 the kind of person who stays with something and
4 believes in it and hangs in there.
5 It is unfortunate that we have to
6 go this route today. What we are asking and,
7 Senator Marchi, I can reflect back on April the
8 4th, 1967, as we saw some of our great leaders
9 in this state at a constitutional convention and
10 the one before that in 1938, Senator, and we
11 were privileged to have a couple of delegates
12 from the 1938 convention. And history has
13 recorded that 1915 before then; and if we go
14 back in history -- and I'm only going back a
15 little bit to let everybody realize what you are
16 tampering with -- in 1777, one year after the
17 Declaration of Independence, the first
18 convention that we had. And in each one of
19 those conventions something became crystal
20 clear. It was clear that we shouldn't tamper
21 with the Constitution for any reason
22 whatsoever.
23 I have watched you, Senator, with
4221
1 this death penalty and I know of your family's
2 concern about the criminal justice system. I
3 have watched, and I say this in all due respect,
4 this matter has become almost an obsession with
5 you. There are those of us, out of respect, we
6 nudge you once in a while to say, "Senator, when
7 are you going to let this thing go?" Let it go,
8 Senator, before it goes to the extreme, and
9 that's what we have here today.
10 We're tampering with an
11 instrument called the Constitution of this
12 state. Keep that in mind. Each and every one of
13 you who are co-sponsors on this piece of
14 legislation, today we are dealing not with the
15 death penalty, which is merely the
16 instrumentality through which we dabble with the
17 Constitution of this great state of ours, and
18 nowhere in this Constitution does it allow for
19 this kind of intervention on a legislative
20 level. Keep focused. Keep focused because this
21 is the Constitution of the state of New York
22 that we're dealing with today, not the death
23 penalty. Not the death penalty.
4222
1 Senator Volker believes so
2 strongly about this matter. He is candid with
3 us. He says never mind checks and balances,
4 never mind veto that the Governor has. We're
5 going to change that, and we're going to change
6 it because we have to pass this death penalty.
7 Senator Kennedy and Senator
8 Javits and Senator Marchi were there that day
9 with a number of other great persons in our
10 state, and Senator Kennedy laid out four
11 criteria. They were simple criteria for a
12 Constitution. He indicated clearly that it was
13 there for simplification. It was there for
14 flexibility. It was there with a range of
15 certain issues that had changed from time to
16 time.
17 But he warned us and he said,
18 Senator Volker, and it applies, this Assembly,
19 meaning the convention, must renounce particular
20 interests and party advantage, that no man seek
21 merely to advance his personal standing, win
22 acceptance of his favorite projects or end an
23 outlet for his private feelings and beliefs.
4223
1 This wasn't directed at you,
2 Senator Volker. It was directed at the
3 delegates who the people asked to come and
4 either write a new Constitution, amend it, or do
5 nothing at all. And most of us at that
6 convention paid heed to what was said because no
7 longer can we dabble with this Constitution. No
8 longer can we take this legislative process and
9 intermingle it into the Constitution merely
10 because we are frustrated and cannot do it any
11 other way.
12 The Governor's veto power is
13 there. If we can't win a few is part of what
14 America is all about, and win a few battles and
15 lose a few battles, but certainly we don't
16 become bitter enemies that we have to resort to
17 tampering with the Constitution of this great
18 state of ours in order to accomplish that end.
19 Senator Marchi -- there were some
20 great people at this convention, and I want you
21 to know that there's just some of the names that
22 were there so you can understand that it wasn't
23 a question of just the Democrats or the
4224
1 Republicans. Democrats were in power at that
2 convention. Shouldn't be that way, very
3 frankly.
4 I didn't understand, as I thought
5 back on the convention, why the Governor had
6 suggested that he wanted no legislators at the
7 next constitutional convention. I was hurt
8 being a legislator. Understood exactly what he
9 meant after a while, because the legislators in
10 the constitutional convention have their own
11 kind of interest, own interest. So
12 notwithstanding the fact that we attempted in
13 the constitutional convention to find a
14 non-partisan group, it couldn't happen. Earl
15 Brydges, Tony Travia, our president, and a
16 number of others, VandeHeuvel, Marietta Tree,
17 Mangano, and the list goes on, but in the final
18 analysis it was a political situation and we
19 have to change that.
20 We need another constitutional
21 convention but, Senator, I say that this state
22 will go down in history because it's not a
23 question of the votes on the death penalty.
4225
1 That's not what in issue as I say over and over
2 again. What it is is that you hang onto
3 something so long, and you can't udge and you
4 can't move it and you get a little desperate and
5 a little frustrated, and I know once in a while
6 I get a little abrasive but not further than
7 that. Don't mean any harm by it, as Grandma
8 used to say.
9 But the fact of the matter is if
10 you can't win fair and square, then why bother?
11 Why would you want to mess with, if you will,
12 the Constitution of this state? There is
13 absolutely no reason for it. There are other of
14 my colleagues who will argue the technicalities
15 of it all. How do you commingle a criminal
16 procedure and a criminal law into a Constitution
17 without jeopardizing every time that we want to
18 move one that we are going to have to change
19 it. We're going to have to move and change it
20 each and every time.
21 This Constitution means so very
22 much to this young country of ours, to this
23 young state of ours. It was just a few years
4226
1 ago. We can still count back on them, when we
2 had this convention not in '67, but in 19 -
3 1777 historically. So, Senator, I say to my
4 colleagues, you don't seek headlines. There are
5 some who perhaps will jump on the bandwagon for
6 that singular purpose to see their name in
7 print, notwithstanding the fact that we're
8 dealing with this Constitution. I see
9 absolutely no reason except disappointment,
10 feeling too strong about an issue, cost
11 benefit.
12 What do we have at stake in order
13 to pass this piece of legislation? The price I
14 say is too high, and we should think very
15 carefully before we move in that direction.
16 Anyone within the sound of my voice who can
17 recall historically what this Constitution
18 really means, that the sacrifices that were made
19 in order for it to come about, that the power
20 that we have -- and we have the power. We don't
21 need the Constitution from the central
22 government. We have the power right here in the
23 state.
4227
1 It's just a question are you
2 prepared now to abuse this power? Are you
3 prepared to vitiate the checks and balances that
4 we talked about? Are you prepared to do away
5 with the Governor's veto because the Governor
6 hasn't seen fit -- two governors have not seen
7 fit -- not seen fit to let this piece of
8 legislation go.
9 Senator, it's merely a system. I
10 don't know about you. Maybe they will allow you
11 a little more time, if you will. These come
12 down to practicalities where they allow you a
13 little more time, but can you imagine this
14 Constitutional Amendment being in a booth in a
15 year that we're all running and trying to
16 explain it. People couldn't even explain the
17 bond issue the last time. Can you imagine?
18 Senator, is there anything fair
19 about that? The answer is no. You know it's not
20 fair. You know that this is not the route. In
21 your heart's heart you know that this is not the
22 route to go. But can you imagine in three
23 minutes trying to explain to someone what this
4228
1 constitutional change really means?
2 It is cumbersome. It won't work.
3 The price is too high. And, Senator, you and I
4 will leave here one day. Hopefully, we'll
5 walk out under our own power, and I would not
6 want this record to reflect, if you will,
7 someone like yourself who I have the greatest
8 respect for, a family that's steeped in criminal
9 justice looking for the right approach, to go
10 down in history as the person who is
11 responsible, person who is responsible for
12 changing the Constitution of the state of New
13 York. With this amendment, I dare say that you
14 destroy or you open up the door for all sorts of
15 horrendous possibilities of doing damage to this
16 great instrument that has held this state in
17 such good stead, and certainly this great
18 country of ours.
19 Senator, nobody but nobody
20 understands the frustration of not having the
21 votes to get whatever we desire through than I
22 do, but I merely say to you, Senator, this is
23 not the right way to do it. I have no argument
4229
1 with you about how you feel about the death
2 penalty. That's a matter of opinion, and we
3 respect that opinion. What I do object to is
4 the procedural process. So desperately do you
5 want this piece of legislation that you are
6 prepared to do away with our check and balances
7 and do away with this Constitution and do away
8 with this form of government to have the
9 legislative branch of government take over, if
10 you will. Every now and then, the Governor
11 tries to take over from us. I know that. But
12 meanwhile, you are the one who says we're not
13 going to go this route. We are going to damage
14 the Constitution.
15 I think it's the wrong, wrong way
16 to go, and I think in your heart's heart you
17 believe that. My argument, my comments today,
18 my feelings strong as they are is directed at
19 one thing. Because I respect each one of you
20 here in terms of what your opinion may be on the
21 death penalty, abortion issue, whatever it may
22 be. Don't even debate it, as I said before. But
23 I want you to know, ladies and gentlemen,
4230
1 colleagues, friends, that when you vote yes on
2 this bill today, if you vote yes, you are voting
3 against one of the greatest instruments in the
4 history of this state, which is the
5 Constitution.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
7 Solomon.
8 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 We spoke about this legislation
11 in the committee several weeks ago, in the
12 Judiciary Committee.
13 First of all, I think I have
14 voted for the death penalty 15 times, and I
15 voted to override the Governor's veto 15 times.
16 And as far as I'm concerned, it is not an issue
17 of whether or not the death penalty should be
18 implemented in this state, but this
19 Constitutional Amendment, the problem that I
20 have with this as a Senator is the method that
21 we're using to implement a legislative policy
22 that we have not been able to pass as a result
23 of the check that has allowed the executive
4231
1 branch in our basic form of government to veto.
2 I think we're dealing with a
3 situation here, as Senator Galiber said, of the
4 method and the methodology and the Constitution.
5 Are we to take every piece of legislation that's
6 vetoed by the Governor and if we don't like that
7 veto, to attempt to implement that legislation
8 via the method of a Constitutional Amendment?
9 Are we to be like children that say, Well, we
10 can't win the game by playing by the rules so
11 let's changes the rules of the game? Because
12 that's what this legislation smacks of,
13 literally changing the rules of the game.
14 We have a rule. The rule is the
15 state Constitution. But the most important thing
16 is the basis for that Constitution and the basis
17 for both the federal and state government are
18 checks and balances between the legislative, the
19 judicial and the executive branch.
20 And it's plainly stated here in
21 the sponsor's memo and in the debate, we have
22 failed to override the veto of the Governor 15
23 times; so since we can't win by playing the
4232
1 rules, let's change the rules of the game in
2 this one instance. Let's have a Constitutional
3 Amendment.
4 I think there are a lot of things
5 that we have to talk about including the fact
6 that the real details of a statute are
7 transitory in nature in some respects as was
8 cited in the constitutional convention by
9 Senator Javits back in I believe 1967.
10 We have a situation where even if
11 this is passed, there are some questions as to
12 whether or not the changes that invariably come
13 along with court interpretation of a statute or
14 Constitutional Amendment, the federal court and
15 the Supreme Court on the death penalty, whether
16 or not we'll be able to implement those changes
17 legislatively or be locked into a box as a
18 result of this Constitutional Amendment, and
19 those are some real changes that you have to be
20 concerned with especially if you are a supporter
21 of the death penalty and have supported it,
22 whether or not we'll end up locking ourselves
23 into a situation where it cannot be implemented.
4233
1 And I just would like to raise a
2 couple of questions. As I said before, I think
3 this one abuses the checks and balances. I
4 think we take a look at a situation of where
5 obviously the Governor and governors -- because
6 Governor Carey opposed the death penalty and was
7 reelected in 1978 -- have been able to continue
8 to get re-elected even though they voiced their
9 opposition to this piece of legislation.
10 But I would just like to ask
11 Senator Volker a question or two if Senator
12 Volker will yield.
13 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, have
15 any other states implemented the death penalty
16 via constitutional amendment?
17 SENATOR VOLKER: I believe that
18 several have. I think the thing you have to
19 understand is, and I haven't really researched
20 this, but I know that there were several states
21 some years ago that had to change their
22 Constitution, and the reason they had to change
23 their Constitution was because their local
4234
1 court, whether it was Supreme Court -- in most
2 cases the Supreme Court is the top court -- and
3 in keeping with the federal court had overturned
4 the death penalty, so that what the legislators
5 had done was to establish Constitutional
6 Amendments to re-establish the death penalty as
7 a constitutional prerogative.
8 So my recollection is, and
9 frankly we did studies on this years ago and
10 it's a while, was that there were a number of
11 states that did do Constitutional Amendments
12 prior to moving on legislatively because they
13 virtually had to, to overcome court objections.
14 It seems to me -- I am not positive -- that
15 Texas was one of those states, one of the
16 southern states that had had their statute
17 thrown out.
18 I know you know, Senator Solomon,
19 the specific cases that threw out the death
20 penalty statutes nationwide were centered in the
21 southwest and in the south, and Texas was one.
22 Florida was another. And I think that those
23 states at that time way back when had to do
4235
1 Constitutional Amendments in order to implement
2 new statutes in their own states to create death
3 penalty legislation.
4 So my recollection is this is not
5 totally unusual. I think what you are getting
6 at is, recently, have any states done
7 Constitutional Amendments to implement the death
8 penalty? Not to my knowledge, not on a recent
9 basis. But my recollection is that years ago
10 when the current new death penalty statutes were
11 put in place, it was not unusual for
12 legislatures, and every Constitution is a little
13 different. Some of it didn't take as long to do
14 as it would take here with the checks and
15 balances that are still in place in order to
16 change the Constitution.
17 So the answer is as far as I know
18 there were legislatures that did implement
19 constitutional changes but not in the last few
20 years.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Solomon, you have the floor.
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr.
4236
1 President. Senator Volker, if you will just
2 yield for one or two more questions.
3 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, do you
5 know how many bills have been vetoed by the
6 Governor in the last year, for instance?
7 SENATOR VOLKER: How many bills
8 were vetoed?
9 SENATOR SOLOMON: How many pieces
10 of legislation were vetoed by the Governor?
11 SENATOR VOLKER: I would have no
12 idea. I would imagine -- I really don't know.
13 Probably -- my colleague Senator Gold says a
14 couple hundred. That's very possible.
15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, just
16 one other quick question, and then I will wrap
17 up my remarks on this. As a lawyer, I sit on
18 and attend and you attend almost every Judiciary
19 Committee meeting as I do, and I think it's very
20 important that some of the issues raised -
21 again, as I said, I take out the philosophical
22 argument whether for or against the death
23 penalty, as I've voted for it and voted to
4237
1 override it. What concerns me, don't you see
2 this as an abuse in possibly opening up the door
3 some time into the future some 20 years from now
4 in terms of our Constitutional Amendment
5 process?
6 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, if I
7 did, I wouldn't do it. Let me point out
8 something to you.
9 I think the argument you make,
10 and I have seen some of the -- we have looked at
11 the memos that have been put out. Actually,
12 there have been very few, but there were a
13 couple of very scholarly memos.
14 If we proposed a Constitutional
15 Amendment, as was suggested, that would, in
16 effect, say that the Governor had no power over
17 death penalty at all, that is, over implementing
18 legislation; in other words, that made the death
19 penalty Constitutional Amendment state that the
20 Governor could not veto implementing
21 legislation, then I think your argument frankly
22 would be absolutely correct.
23 By the way, Senator, let me point
4238
1 out that last week a Constitutional Amendment
2 that was vehemently debated by Senator Leichter
3 and several other people on this floor passed as
4 relates to local funding, and the argument on
5 that Constitutional Amendment was that we were
6 again invading in the legislative area.
7 Remember that a Constitutional
8 Amendment is not something that you just pass
9 through both houses of the Legislature. It's
10 got to be by two consecutive legislatures, and I
11 only point out it goes to the people for a
12 vote.
13 I mean it's been said that the
14 ultimate in determination is the people's vote,
15 and I only point that out. So this is not
16 something that is easily done, nor do I do it
17 without some trepidation. But I think your
18 argument -- and I understand your argument. It
19 seems to me is we are not doing great damage to
20 the Constitution. In fact, we are following the
21 rules as the framers of the Constitution set up
22 to amend the Constitution.
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. On
4239
1 the bill, again.
2 As I said before, I think this is
3 a poor way to implement the legislative policy
4 which has not been able to pass or override the
5 veto by the executive.
6 And to go at the heart of the
7 matter, if we believed that the people as a
8 final arbitrator, that it was so important to
9 deliver it and have it put out by the people for
10 a vote, then I find it odd to understand why
11 this house refuses to pass initiative and
12 referendum.
13 In that's the philosophy, "Let's
14 give it to the people, and let's let the people
15 vote on the Constitutional Amendment," well,
16 then let's throw in initiative and referendum.
17 And if we had initiative and referendum, none of
18 us would be in this position because you could
19 have put a death penalty on the ballot through
20 the referendum process.
21 I think what we have here is what
22 I said before. We are attacking the basic
23 system of government, the basic checks and
4240
1 balances that are established in both the
2 federal system and the state system which we
3 have today.
4 A piece of legislation which we
5 have tried to pass time after time after time
6 has been vetoed by the Governor. We have tried
7 to override that Governor's veto on numerous
8 occasions. The end result has been that we have
9 not been successful in the lower house. The
10 Governor's veto has never been overridden in the
11 Assembly.
12 The basic constitutional concepts
13 had worked. The check of the executive branch
14 upon the legislative branch had worked and
15 continued to work in the way in which it might
16 have been anticipated by the people who had
17 drafted our original state Constitution and,
18 indeed, along the similar lines of the people
19 that drafted the federal Constitution.
20 I think we are setting a very
21 dangerous precedent to take something as
22 important as the basic functions of government
23 in this state and to overrule those foundations
4241
1 because we as a legislative body, sitting for a
2 very small period of time in terms of the total
3 concept of history of this state, over a 14-year
4 period, has been frustrated in implementing one
5 specific piece of legislation, and to say let's
6 do it by Constitutional Amendment, it's two
7 different shots at two different legislatures,
8 we can bypass the Governor's veto, we can put it
9 on the ballot and hopefully the people will vote
10 in favor of this, because we as a Legislature
11 couldn't play by the rules that were established
12 when the state Constitution was originally
13 implemented over 200 years ago.
14 And I don't think this is
15 something that should be taken very lightly by
16 the members of this house, by people that say
17 well, it's just one way of doing something
18 politically; it's just one way of finally
19 implementing the death penalty.
20 I think this is something where
21 in good conscience you have to sit down and
22 think about the oath of office you took or that
23 document you signed if you didn't take the oath
4242
1 of office before a notary public and really
2 think where you're going on something that
3 attacks the basic concepts of the Constitution.
4 Because there is no question this
5 is being done as the result of frustration over
6 the fact that we have not been able to override
7 the Governor's veto on this specific issue. This
8 is not being done because the Constitution has a
9 flaw and we need a specific amendment to resolve
10 that flaw.
11 And as I said before, this really
12 attacks that basic concept of three governmental
13 branches with checks and balances. And as
14 someone who has always voted for the death
15 penalty and voted to override the Governor's
16 veto, I think it's important for many of us who
17 have done so to vote against this bill because
18 it tries to change the rules of the game.
19 It's not the issue whether it's
20 right or wrong to implement the death penalty.
21 It's changing the rules of the game, and I think
22 that's what is very wrong about this
23 Constitutional Amendment.
4243
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Gold.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 Mr. President. I am in one
6 respect very happy that the debate is going
7 along the lines that it's going because there
8 seems to be attention paid to the structure
9 rather than just the code words "death penalty,"
10 and I was afraid when this debate first got
11 under way or I heard that it was going to take
12 place today that people would get lost in the
13 slogan "death penalty" and not be concerned
14 about the process, because the process is
15 essential.
16 But first let me say this to put
17 it in perspective. Senator Volker started by
18 saying that there is a need for this, the death
19 penalty. And let me just address that very
20 simply. There is no need for it.
21 There is a need to do something,
22 and the Governor has made a suggestion. Put
23 people away for the rest of their lives without
4244
1 the possibility of parole. They will never kill
2 again. They will be in prison, and that's fine
3 and society does not then have to become as
4 barbaric as the barbarians who kill in our
5 streets. So it's not that the death penalty is
6 needed. It is some people's answer, but it is
7 not the only answer.
8 Senator Volker, what we're doing
9 today is very, very dangerous. Now, I'm not
10 saying that Dale Volker is dangerous. Dale
11 Volker, as I've said so many times, is a
12 gentleman of good will who happens to have a
13 belief. But, Senator, what we're talking about
14 today is very, very dangerous.
15 There is a reason why it is
16 different procedurally to pass a law and to
17 amend the Constitution. There is a reason for
18 it. Our forefathers and mothers -- well, I
19 guess in those days it was forefathers, knew
20 what they were doing. The word "Constitution"
21 and the word "law" are different.
22 A Constitution is something which
23 sets a framework for an entire government and a
4245
1 society and the way you are going to live and
2 set up your business. And you've got an article
3 that deals with the judiciary, and you've got an
4 article that deals with the legislature, and
5 there are massive concepts of how people will
6 live that get set forth in a Constitution.
7 United States Constitution is a
8 perfect example of that. Ours is a less perfect
9 one, and I know in 1967, when we had our last
10 constitutional convention, there were many
11 people who had hoped that we could shorten this
12 Constitution and bring it in, bring it in
13 tighter, so that those items which were more
14 appropriately dealt with as laws would be dealt
15 with as laws, and our grandiose principles would
16 be set forth in a Constitution.
17 The Constitution is bigger than
18 any one issue and particularly this one, and if
19 you can't have your way as other people have not
20 had their way, you don't tamper with the process
21 to win a point. And, Senator Volker, I know how
22 important you think this point is, but there are
23 other people who think points are important,
4246
1 too.
2 And as I said, Senator Volker, if
3 you take a look at the list of proposed
4 Constitutional Amendments that are sitting in
5 the Legislature today, you will find that there
6 really are a couple of different kinds of
7 philosophies.
8 One of our members believes there
9 ought to be a unicameral legislature. That is a
10 governmental philosophy, and you can only deal
11 with that by affecting the constitutional
12 because the Constitution provides for two
13 houses.
14 We specifically forbid gambling
15 in this state by Constitution. So if you want
16 to deal with gambling, you must by necessity go
17 to the Constitution.
18 Some people believe that judges
19 should not be elected and there should be other
20 processes. Some people believe all judges
21 should be elected. Those are matters which you
22 must deal with in the Constitution.
23 However, as I said, there are
4247
1 other philosophies. One member of this house
2 who has voted against certain reforms believes
3 that the Constitution ought to tell us that we
4 shouldn't work past 12:00 o'clock at night in
5 this Legislature. I mean can you really believe
6 that that is an issue that we can't decide
7 ourselves that must go to the people in a
8 Constitutional Amendment.
9 We have members that believe that
10 if the Governor is going to give pardons and
11 commutations that the Constitution ought to
12 provide who writes to him and what kind of
13 information he handles, matters which are for
14 the law which may change day in and day out.
15 One member believes we should be
16 out of here at a certain time and that ought to
17 be a Constitutional Amendment.
18 Take a look at it. Read the
19 Legislative Index for yourselves and decide
20 whether or not you think that some of these
21 items are entitled to the dignity of being
22 Constitutional Amendments or not.
23 You get to a pooint of belittling
4248
1 the system. Unfortunately, you know, once this
2 train gets on the wrong track, it is very hard
3 to get it back again. I will give you a perfect
4 example.
5 I have spoken to many of you in
6 private off this floor, and I think almost all
7 of us are in agreement that we don't have the
8 competence to give out pensions. Somebody did it
9 about five years ago. Next year, there were
10 about four or five. Now we're getting flooded,
11 and poor Caesar Trunzo has a bill that he can't
12 get past the Assembly, to their lack of credit,
13 which would get us out of that business, but we
14 got out on this track and now we're lost.
15 There are other issues around. I
16 believe if we submitted a Constitutional
17 Amendment proposal to the people, they might
18 determine women's right of self-determination of
19 their body and put it right in the Constitution,
20 and some of you would shiver and shudder that
21 that would go in the Constitution, but that
22 might in fact be such.
23 There are people over here who
4249
1 say isn't it ridiculous. There are people who
2 get beaten up. Their lives are taken away
3 merely because of their preferences, where they
4 were born, their color. And, gee, let's go to
5 the Constitution. We can even get that as a
6 law.
7 Maybe we should have a whole
8 litany, and maybe as the Governor has said there
9 should be a constitutional convention. But
10 doing this one issue in this way, I say again is
11 a danger.
12 Thanks to my very dear and
13 distinguished colleague, Senator Galiber, I have
14 in front of me an AP story which is very, very
15 old. It is old. It is about seven hours old.
16 Comes out of Washington today, and it talks
17 about a fellow by the name of John L. Sullivan,
18 not the famous boxer, but a man who was
19 sentenced death in 1980 in Louisiana, and it
20 took until 1993 for the Supreme Court to finally
21 say that the charge to the jury was so unfair
22 that the conviction had to be thrown out.
23 Interestingly enough, in reading
4250
1 the story, the first relief that this man got
2 was not in 1993. Because, before this, the
3 Louisiana court said, well, the trial stunk
4 enough so we'll eliminate the death penalty part
5 of it, but we're going to keep him in jail,
6 anyway. But it took the United States Supreme
7 Court to say thirteen years later that the man
8 ought to have a fair trial.
9 I guarantee you with a death
10 penalty provision in New York and what you are
11 talking about under this bill, Senator Volker,
12 he would have been dead. Because I know that
13 you don't want a death penalty bill that is
14 going to last for years and years and years
15 because what I hear from everybody that talks
16 about the death penalty unless you start frying
17 people or doing something to them, there's no
18 deterrent. So the only way you are going to get
19 a deterrent is when people start seeing these
20 dead bodies of people we convict and you can't
21 have people sitting around on death row for
22 thirteen years.
23 Bottom line of this is very
4251
1 simple. I don't agree with the death penalty,
2 Senator Volker, and you know that. I have
3 another colleague who spoke a little earlier who
4 said he does agree, but he is going to vote no
5 today.
6 I really urge everybody in this
7 house to consider what we are doing. If you have
8 voted for the death penalty to become a law in
9 New York State, you have made your political
10 statement. You have made your conscience
11 statement. And I don't say political statement
12 in a nasty way, because I don't think anybody
13 here is voting for the death penalty for
14 political reasons. I know it comes from the
15 heart, and I give everybody the same benefit of
16 the doubt I would give myself.
17 But you've made your statement of
18 what you believe the law ought to be. Today,
19 you have to make a statement that stands up for
20 the Constitution as a document which is more
21 sacred than any one law that we have in this
22 state. That is the issue.
23 The side issue to that is whether
4252
1 or not we are going to surrender our authority,
2 abdicate our authority, and in situations where
3 we either do not want to make a decision because
4 it's politically hot or in a situation where we
5 may not be able to get our way because the
6 structure of government is such that it's checks
7 and balances, we are going to abdicate our
8 authority to the people. Our power in this
9 house comes from the people. They want us to
10 have it. They didn't give it to us for us to
11 abdicate it back to them if the issue gets tough
12 or if the politics gets tough.
13 I'll close in telling you one
14 story. I was in an election campaign a number
15 of years ago, a very difficult one, and I didn't
16 agree with many of the people in my community on
17 a certain issue. And I was explaining to
18 somebody there that I had to do what I thought
19 was the proper thing. My conscience would
20 require me to do it, what I thought was in the
21 best interest of my people, and I was getting a
22 lot of heat from the one young man who wouldn't
23 let go.
4253
1 And finally, I said to him -- I
2 said, "Look, if you had a belief that something
3 was absolutely the proper governmental thing to
4 do but the people in your community, the
5 majority of them, didn't agree with that and now
6 you are on the floor of the Legislature, what
7 would you do?" And the guy throws back his
8 chest; he says, "I'd abstain." And I said,
9 "Well, I'm sorry. I'm not running for office
10 to abstain. I'm running for office to vote."
11 Today, we're about to do
12 something that is dangerous. We are not being
13 asked to change the Constitution because the
14 legislative structure is wrong. We're not being
15 asked to discuss how we elect or don't elect
16 judges. We are not being asked anything about
17 structure of our government. We're being asked
18 to tamper with our Constitution to change a law,
19 and that is a horrible, horrible precedent to
20 get involved in.
21 And I hope that everybody, no
22 matter how you feel about the death penalty,
23 will join me and Senator Galiber and many others
4254
1 in voting no on this proposal.
2 (Senator Seward was in the
3 chair. )
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SEWARD: Senator
5 Dollinger.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I rise today to speak against
9 this proposed Constitutional Amendment. And
10 before I start on the substance I want to share
11 Senator Volker's frustration. He's been in the
12 Legislature for seventeen years on something
13 that is very close to his heart, something that
14 he has strong convictions on. Now, I've been in
15 this Legislature for five months. I've had
16 strong convictions on a number of issues, and I
17 have already tasted frustration. So I can
18 imagine what seventeen years does, especially
19 when you think the majority of the people are
20 behind you as Senator Volker thinks they are on
21 this issue.
22 But I look at this Constitutional
23 Amendment, and I have to ask a very simple
4255
1 question. What is broken? Why do we need this
2 amendment? Where does the need, the essence of
3 this come from? And it seems to me that the
4 answer to that question is equally simple.
5 What is broken is not our
6 constitutional system and not even our system of
7 checks and balances, but the pure and simple
8 fact that for the last seventeen years under the
9 Constitution of this state there has been power
10 vested in one person through use of executive
11 veto to deny the majority of both houses their
12 will on a particular piece of legislation.
13 Many people would find that
14 repugnant. After all, we're thwarting the will
15 of the majority. Except the people this state
16 decided by establishing the two-thirds
17 requirement for veto that that was the
18 limitation that was put on the legislative
19 power.
20 Those of you who have been
21 present in our debate about the Comptroller and
22 the power of appointing the Comptroller and the
23 concepts of the constitutional requirements for
4256
1 that appointment know that constitutional power
2 and enabling power is something close to my
3 heart as a lawyer.
4 And I stand here today because it
5 seems to me that we don't have to change the
6 allocation of power in this state to solve the
7 problem that the sponsor of this legislation
8 sees as impeding the imposition of a death
9 penalty. The solution, I submit, is very
10 simple.
11 The people of this state can
12 elect a governor who agrees with Senator Volker;
13 and when they do, there will be a death penalty
14 in this state. It will be over my strong
15 opposition and over my strong advocacy against
16 it, but that is clearly what can happen in our
17 constitutional system, because the system of
18 power that we've established says that that one
19 person will have the ability to sign the
20 legislation and take it into effect.
21 It seems to me that this bill is
22 designed to address one particular person's one
23 particular view on a particular issue, and that
4257
1 I submit, ladies and gentlemen, is a very
2 dangerous precedent in the history of this state
3 and in country that we would modify our
4 underlying constitution because of the
5 predilections of one particular person.
6 Where does it stop? Where is the
7 end point? Do we simply change the Constitution
8 because of one person every time that one person
9 uses the power vested in him by the people to
10 effectuate his own beliefs. It seems to me that
11 we are embarking on an extremely dangerous
12 approach.
13 I also rise, Mr. President,
14 because I think that if you look at the context
15 of this proposed amendment, you will see that
16 the real problem that Senator Volker is seeking
17 to address is not something that affects the
18 legislative power in Article III of our
19 Constitution but is actually better found in
20 Article IV, section 7, which creates in the
21 executive branch the ability to impose a veto on
22 the majority of both houses.
23 And my suggestion to Senator
4258
1 Volker is that if your intent is to change the
2 scope of the veto power, this amendment belongs
3 in Article IV, not in Article III. It's
4 homeless in Article III because there is nothing
5 to attach it to.
6 Read the text of Article III in
7 the Constitution. You will see it's a litany of
8 empowering the Legislature to conduct a
9 particular activity. The word "shall" is
10 contained in each section of Article III. The
11 Legislature shall maintain a Journal. The
12 Legislature shall have legislative power. It
13 shall be vested in two houses. It is an
14 enabling document. It is giving us the power
15 under the restrictions of Article IV to enact
16 legislation on behalf of the people.
17 What we seek to do today is to
18 jump over those checks and balances in what I
19 believe is a very, very dangerous precedent.
20 But I throw one other word of
21 caution in all of my colleagues, and that is I
22 believe that this amendment is the first step in
23 altering the entire power vested in the
4259
1 Legislature of this state. I believe that what
2 we will do is fundamentally restrict our own
3 power to enact legislation and in fact invest
4 the judiciary with the dangerous ability through
5 interpretive power to set constitutional
6 standards that this Legislature cannot change by
7 interpreting this death penalty to require
8 certainly additional protections or minimal
9 protections for the accused, by interpreting the
10 sections that deal with criminal procedure.
11 All of those can be interpreted
12 in a fashion in which the majority of both
13 houses disagree with and the Governor of this
14 state disagrees with, and yet we will no longer
15 have the ability to change the underlying
16 Constitution without an approval vote from the
17 people, a process that even the sponsor agrees
18 will take many, many years.
19 I would just point to another
20 time in history. My colleague, Senator Galiber,
21 talked about the constitutional convention. I
22 just ask you all to recall in the early 1960s
23 when you saw the signs throughout the United
4260
1 States that said impeach Earl Warren, and why,
2 because there was a perception in this country
3 that the judiciary had too much power through
4 the power of interpretation of the
5 Constitution. They had created rights. They
6 had created liberties. They had rewritten the
7 standards, in my view properly so, but there was
8 an entire body in this country that felt that
9 the judiciary had too much power through
10 interpretation.
11 My fear is that by enacting a
12 Constitutional Amendment on the death penalty,
13 we will shift from this body the legislative
14 power to decide what is appropriate in the
15 context of the state imposition of death for
16 criminal activity, and we will shift it instead
17 to the judiciary, and we may never be able to
18 get it back.
19 So, in my view, this amendment is
20 not a solution to the underlying problem that
21 Senator Volker finds. It is not a
22 constitutional problem. It is at best a
23 political problem. It is one that can have a
4261
1 political solution. The voters have the ability
2 to do that. They have decided for the last
3 eighteen years to elect two candidates who
4 happen to be strongly against the death penalty,
5 who repeatedly vetoed the death penalty, and yet
6 the people of this state have continued to vest
7 them with the power to veto death penalty
8 legislation which is passed by the majority of
9 both houses.
10 It seems to me that that's the
11 political solution that Senator Volker seeks.
12 It's not to set a dangerous precedent by taking
13 a Constitutional Amendment to the people that
14 would give away the power of this body, that
15 would run the risk that we would never be able
16 to change the legislation, underlying
17 legislation in the event that there were an
18 unfavorable determination from the Court of
19 Appeals.
20 We may give away the very
21 legislative power that the people originally in
22 the Constitution gave to us. Before we give
23 away that constitutional power, I think we have
4262
1 to examine this extremely carefully, realize
2 that in fact there is nothing broken in this
3 state, that the political solution can be had
4 through the voters through the ballot box, and
5 we should retain the legislative power to
6 ourselves.
7 Although I disagree with the
8 exercise of that power on the death penalty, I
9 do believe that that power ought to continue to
10 reside in this body and should not be
11 frivolously given away through a Constitutional
12 Amendment that is wrong-headed.
13 For those reasons, Mr. President,
14 I am opposed. I would ask that my colleagues
15 vote no on this proposal.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SEWARD: Senator
17 Espada.
18 SENATOR ESPADA: Yeah, Mr.
19 President. My people, Senators and staff on both
20 sides of this question, I thank you for
21 preparing the questions and the statements that
22 by the time my turn comes around they've been
23 asked and commented upon, and, quite frankly, I
4263
1 will admit that we all have respect for that,
2 but there were many that I think Senator Volker
3 had answered about whether or not in the
4 Constitution of this state, something so
5 inappropriate as the whole issue of death, a
6 document that speaks to this whole issue of
7 liberty, freedom, hopes and promises now will
8 speak to death after two votes of this body, a
9 couple of votes of the other body or the other
10 house, and it will then go to the voters.
11 So the question of whether we
12 abdicate, abrogate, surrender our powers as a
13 Legislature don't become so important any more.
14 They have been covered by eloquent testimony
15 already. I want to skip and go back to my home
16 turf where I come from in the South Bronx
17 because these are some of the rare occasions I
18 get to speak about life and death in the South
19 Bronx.
20 But this time around I get to
21 speak about -- when I go back home Thursday, I
22 get to speak about Volker and Graber. I get to
23 speak about what they have to say about it, life
4264
1 and death and the people in my district when we
2 talk about -- talk to them about issues of death
3 and how an eye for an eye is good for the soul;
4 it's only just, you know. They took your
5 brother or your sister or they shot a cop or
6 corrections officer, Miss Guana or Miss Smith.
7 Is it fair to take somebody's death after they
8 did that? You know what their answer would be?
9 We don't need no fancy Constitutional
10 Conventions or amendments. They say yes.
11 They're colder and harder than anybody here.
12 They're tougher than anybody here. They say
13 yes, fry 'em once, fry 'em twice. All because,
14 you know, that's the free will of the people.
15 If I go to some of the other
16 counties in this state, they may have some free
17 exercise of their will too. They may not allow
18 me and my kind to live in their area, free
19 exercise of the will of the people.
20 That's wrong. Miss Guana, Miss
21 Smith in my district may be wrong too. But we
22 have to be consistent. We're elected up here
23 because we've convinced a whole lot of people
4265
1 that we know a little bit about governance, a
2 little bit about public policy setting. Let's
3 talk about some of that free will of the people
4 then, and how it affects social policy.
5 This will pass, not because your
6 side has won or some virtuous side has won over
7 a less virtuous or less side or less right
8 side. The fact of the matter is it's a question
9 of power. And what does that have to do with
10 the free exercise of the will of the people?
11 Senator Gold has already said that there's a
12 bunch of amendments that speak to all kinds of
13 rights and all kinds of things that people would
14 like to see exercised as a matter of right in
15 their daily lives that won't see the light of
16 day here. Why? Question of power. It's a
17 question of an imbalance of power.
18 This time around, this time in
19 history you got it, enjoy it. Should that
20 affect our Constitution? Should that affect a
21 document that has lived for so long, untampered
22 by the practicalities of politics, the
23 frustrations of 17, 18 years of not getting
4266
1 one's way?
2 Go back to this issue of the free
3 will of the people. Volker and Graber had their
4 way, once, twice, and now it's your say, we tell
5 the people in the South Bronx. But two years
6 from now, what about the housing that they come
7 to my district office for? Have we built any of
8 that? What about fixing up some of those school
9 roofs that are leaking and some of those
10 classrooms that are in disrepair? And what
11 about that health care system and that municipal
12 hospital and no primary care? What about that
13 other stuff that you guys voted on for no
14 abortion for women on Medicaid? How can they
15 spend on the one hand for life and fight so hard
16 for life, and on the other hand fight so hard to
17 take it away and put it all in one document?
18 What brilliant people they are! But how in
19 consistent they really, truly can be.
20 And so the Constitution was meant
21 for many things but it wasn't meant for
22 practical politics. It wasn't meant for
23 inconsistencies. It wasn't meant to have the
4267
1 free will of the people exercised sometimes when
2 the power swings your way.
3 So for all those reasons, Mr.
4 President, we have to vote no for this. The
5 exercise of power and the balance of power in
6 this issue and in this house will dictate
7 otherwise, I'm sure. But in the end we'll pay a
8 heavy price for it.
9 Thank you so much.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SEWARD: Senator
11 Volker to close.
12 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
13 very briefly.
14 Let me just say that certainly
15 there are many in this chamber who have a -- I
16 don't want to say I have as high regard for the
17 Constitution as many people in this chamber
18 because I don't want to presume to do that. I
19 will say, though, that let me point out that
20 truly there was not one substantive argument as
21 such against this Constitutional Amendment. A
22 lot of procedural arguments and, Senator
23 Dollinger, as we discussed it -- discussed in
4268
1 the committee, the issue of whether this
2 Constitutional Amendment goes in Article III or
3 Article IV is certainly a debatable one, but, as
4 I asked you at the time, whether it's in Article
5 III or Article IV does not make it invalid nor
6 constitutionally shaky. I suppose it depends on
7 your perspective of how it should be, but it
8 certainly does not mean that it is improper.
9 I have an immensely high regard
10 for the Constitution. Let me point out also,
11 though, that I don't know if I agree that the
12 Constitution was meant as a static document. In
13 fact, I don't agree.
14 Now, you can argue that the
15 reason we are doing this is because of events
16 that have occurred, but let me point out to you
17 that there was nothing that I know of that says
18 that anyone in framing the Constitution or since
19 then has said that this sort of action couldn't
20 or shouldn't be taken.
21 Let me point out that the
22 Governor of this state is proposing a
23 Constitutional Amendment, or Constitutional
4269
1 Convention, I'm sorry because I -- Senator
2 Galiber reminded me, I was there not as a
3 delegate or anything of that nature; I was there
4 with my father, who was a counsel to the
5 Constitutional Convention in 1967. I remember
6 it very well.
7 I can remember that there was an
8 awful lot of debate and unfortunately very
9 little came out of it, but as my father said,
10 that was just as well considering the
11 situation. But I guess that depends on your
12 perspective.
13 But the point I'm trying to make
14 is and I've told some people this and my good
15 friend, Governor Cuomo, and I have had a few
16 discussions, it's arguable that the main reason
17 that the Governor wants the Constitutional
18 Convention is because there are several bills in
19 my committee that he has not been able to get
20 accomplished in this house, and I could name
21 them, but I think I would be better not to.
22 The point I'm trying to make is
23 that, whether you do it by Constitutional
4270
1 Convention or Constitutional Amendment, we are
2 part of a process here that attempts to
3 accomplish certain things. Let's face facts.
4 The real argument here is the people who oppose
5 this Constitutional Amendment are saying to me,
6 We don't like it because you may accomplish it
7 and we don't really like the way you
8 accomplished it and we would prefer you didn't
9 accomplish it.
10 I understand that. But I say to
11 you this: If I agreed with you, Senator Galiber,
12 that this was doing some sort of severe damage
13 to the Constitution, I would be the first one to
14 withdraw this and to say I would not do it. In
15 fact, the proposal that was made by some people
16 in the past that would eliminate the Governor
17 totally from the process and would say, in
18 effect, that you would have -- you would not
19 need any implementing legislation, was something
20 to me that, first of all, as a practical matter
21 I think constitutionally would have been
22 questionable. That is, that when you completely
23 change the process in one case, I think you are
4271
1 in a situation where you are asking, in fact,
2 for interminable litigation. Certainly in the
3 death penalty area, the one thing that we don't
4 need is interminable litigation.
5 As I have pointed out in the
6 past, when I hear about people who are retried
7 after ten years, it's no secret that if you can
8 get a new trial for a person in a death penalty
9 issue, the chances of reconvicting him are very,
10 very slim whether they committed the crime or
11 not because witnesses are gone and in death
12 penalty cases are much more difficult to convict
13 people. Rightfully so.
14 That's why, as I pointed out to a
15 number of these people who run around the
16 country desperately trying to get people out of
17 jail who are tried on death -- in death penalty
18 situations, the one problem is, as I pointed out
19 to a fellow from Harvard, how does it feel to be
20 somebody who has let a number of people out of
21 jail who have killed people and are now out
22 there in our society with the possibility of
23 killing again because a number of those people
4272
1 clearly did the crime.
2 And that I think is the problem
3 here. The problem here is that, yes, this is
4 not the normal processes, but there is nothing
5 here that violates the Constitution, in fact, it
6 seems to me, or the spirit of the Constitution.
7 I think that, if I had my druthers, obviously I
8 would do it in the normal way. But the
9 arguments that I think everybody made against
10 this Constitutional Amendment basically say,
11 Hey, we would prefer that it not be done this
12 way, one reason being you may be able to do it
13 and we don't want you to do it.
14 I understand that. I think that
15 what we should do is move on this. If the
16 Assembly does it, then, we'll deal with it in
17 the next Legislature and then the people can
18 deal with it because, remember, there is an
19 argument that the people are the final
20 arbitrators on this, and that maybe democracy in
21 certain cases has to make that decision where
22 there was a close case such as this, where the
23 people at least on the surface are so
4273
1 overwhelmingly in favor and for various reasons
2 have not been able to do it. But I think under
3 the circumstances, as I said, that this is the
4 best way to proceed at this time, and I think we
5 should pass this amendment, and I would hope
6 that the Assembly would do it also.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Slow
9 roll call. Slow roll call has been asked for.
10 Ring the bell. The acting Majority Leader asked
11 that Senator Gold's name be called out of
12 order.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: No.
15 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President,
16 would it quicken the process if I asked that my
17 name be called to explain my vote, or do you
18 want to wait.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's
20 up to -- Senator Present says certainly.
21 Senator Galiber to explain his
22 vote and to have his name called.
23 Senator Galiber, your name has
4274
1 been called.
2 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes.
3 Mr. President, I listened very
4 carefully to my good colleague and friend,
5 Senator Volker, suggest that there was nothing
6 substantive about some of the objections that we
7 had, and those of you who can recall the
8 embarrassment when this was attempted, this sort
9 of legislation was attempted and put into the
10 federal Constitution under the 18th Amendment
11 called "Prohibition," they were so embarrassed
12 about that that it took us years and years to
13 repeal the 18th Amendment.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Galiber, excuse me just a moment.
16 The Senators are coming in for a
17 slow roll call. I'm going to ask that the noise
18 please be kept down so we can hear Senator
19 Galiber explain his vote.
20 SENATOR GALIBER: -- where we, in
21 reality, Mr. President, were so embarrassed on a
22 federal level that we had to repeal the 18th
23 Amendment. So we have some history, some sub
4275
1 stantive history, on this kind of transaction.
2 Senator Volker, if this bill
3 passes today, this first go-round, if this
4 resolution passes, New York will be -- New York
5 will be the first state that has in their
6 Constitution a death penalty, the first one.
7 You are right about the various amendments, but
8 not -- we will be -- have the dubious distinc
9 tion of being the first state.
10 In addition thereto, that if this
11 bill passes, for all practical purposes, the
12 Governor is out of the loop. But never mind
13 this business about the enacting piece of
14 legislation. He is out of the hoop, and the
15 sponsor of this legislation knows that, and your
16 amendment, Senator Volker, is highly technical
17 and it's complicated, and the real purpose of
18 any Constitutional Amendment should be based on
19 broad principles and constitutional simplicity
20 which doesn't have the same effect that -- if
21 this piece of legislation passes.
22 The Constitution should be a
23 framework as was mentioned before. It is not a
4276
1 place of detailed legislation. That should be
2 left up to us and, Senator, those who were not
3 at the Convention I'm proud that I was there and
4 you were there with your father.
5 Let me give you an idea of what
6 this simplistic instrument with its flexibility,
7 the kinds of issues that they were talking
8 about, the committees that were formed, and the
9 Committee on Economic Development, Committee on
10 Education, Committee on the Executive Branch,
11 the Committee on Health, Housing and Social
12 Services, Committee on Inter-Government
13 Relations, Committee on the Judiciary, Committee
14 on State Finance and Taxation Expenditure,
15 Committee on the Rules, Natural Resources and
16 Agriculture.
17 These are the kinds of things
18 that are in our Constitution, not this what you
19 wish to put in. There is no -- absolutely no
20 place in the Constitution for this.
21 So to suggest that this merely
22 has been a procedural process is misleading us,
23 and I know in your heart you don't wish to do
4277
1 that, but we have the strength of some
2 substantive changes in this instrument, and I
3 close, Mr. President, as I did before, we had an
4 experience on a federal level with Prohibition.
5 We will be the first state to have in its
6 constitution a death penalty. We will take the
7 Governor out of the loop. We will do away with
8 checks and balances.
9 This is a disgrace that we have
10 this piece of legislation before us, merely
11 because of frustration, merely because we can't
12 go through the process. You got to deal the
13 hand; the hand that you're dealt, that's the one
14 you play, Senator, and if you can't win fair and
15 square, why do we have to circumvent and go into
16 the Constitution which has held us in good stead
17 for so very long?
18 There's plenty of substantive
19 matters here, and I say again a vote in favor is
20 not in favor of the death penalty. A vote for
21 this resolution is against the Constitution of
22 this great state of ours.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do
4278
1 you vote?
2 SENATOR GALIBER: I vote no.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 Galiber in the negative.
5 Start the roll call.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
7 (There was no response. )
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor.
11 (There was no response. )
12 Senator Cook.
13 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly.
15 SENATOR DALY: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 DeFrancisco.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
23 (Negative indication. )
4279
1 THE SECRETARY: No.
2 Senator Farley.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber
5 voting in the negative earlier.
6 Senator Gold voting in the
7 negative earlier.
8 Senator Gonzalez.
9 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman.
11 SENATOR GOODMAN: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator
13 Halperin.
14 (There was no response. )
15 Senator Hannon.
16 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Hoffmann.
19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
23 (There was no response. )
4280
1 Senator Jones.
2 SENATOR JONES: Explain my vote.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 Jones to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR JONES: I find this a
6 very difficult vote to make, and I have listened
7 as have all of you, and read all the material on
8 this. I personally am opposed to the death
9 penalty. I will continue to be opposed to it.
10 I will speak against it. All the reasons have
11 already been given. It is not a deterrent to
12 crime. There's a minority issue and the chance
13 of even one innocent person being sent to the
14 death chamber are all valid reasons, I think,
15 that the death penalty should not be in this
16 state. If it is on the ballot, I will
17 personally go to the poles and exercise my right
18 as a voter and vote no.
19 In this case, however, I agree
20 with my colleague who said a vote on this issue
21 is not a vote in favor of the death penalty. It
22 is a vote in favor of the people also having the
23 same rights that I do to vote. I'm sorry to say
4281
1 that life without parole is combined with this.
2 I think it should be a separate issue, because I
3 believe if it were, the people in this state
4 would choose life without parole. I also think
5 initiative and referendum would have been the
6 correct way to go about this, but since none of
7 these choices are here in this case, I feel as
8 though I must cast my vote in favor of the
9 people of the state having a right to vote on
10 this, just as I do.
11 So I vote yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
13 Jones in the affirmative.
14 Continue the roll call.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
16 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
18 SENATOR LACK: On the resolution
19 aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
23 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
4282
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter
2 voting in the negative earlier today.
3 Senator Levy.
4 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
8 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
10 SENATOR MARCHI: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino.
12 (Affirmative indication.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Aye.
14 Senator Markowitz.
15 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Masiello.
18 (There was no response. )
19 Senator Mega.
20 SENATOR MEGA: Yes.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
22 SENATOR MENDEZ: No.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4283
1 Montgomery.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan
4 voting in the negative earlier today.
5 Senator Nozzolio.
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
8 Nozzolio to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 My colleagues, I support this
12 measure. I support this measure because it puts
13 the people into the loop of decision-making. To
14 whether or not our state should have a death
15 penalty, this house has been clear. Time and
16 time again, the Legislature has decided it to be
17 in the best interests of justice and of the
18 people of this state to have a death penalty.
19 I've supported a death penalty
20 for 11 years and support this measure, this
21 measure to put the people into the loop of
22 decision-making. The Governor, for too long,
23 has kept this behind closed doors in the sense
4284
1 of not allowing the will of the people to
2 prevail. We're asking that will to prevail
3 through this measure, and that's why I urge its
4 passage.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
7 Nozzolio in the affirmative.
8 Continue the roll call.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Ohrenstein.
11 (Negative indication.)
12 THE SECRETARY: No.
13 Senator Onorato.
14 SENATOR ONORATO: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Oppenheimer.
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No, and I'd
18 like to explain my vote.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Oppenheimer to explain her vote.
21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well,
22 actually, I don't want to so much explain as to
23 -- to question what was just said a moment ago
4285
1 by Senator Nozzolio, which is that we ought to
2 be letting people of the state make decisions on
3 -- on -- make their decision on this issue.
4 I think it would be interesting
5 to put the question to the other side of the
6 aisle and to Senator Nozzolio about permitting
7 this kind of an issue, at least an emotional
8 issue, the Pro-Choice issue, to also come up to
9 the people of this state. The people of this
10 state in large numbers have said that they
11 support Pro-Choice.
12 I personally don't think that
13 it's the right way to go, to put major issues or
14 the majority of issues or, for that matter, any
15 issue up to the people willy-nilly because the
16 facts are, we have been voted into office to do
17 a job and, if our job isn't appreciated, then we
18 are voted out of office, and I think it is
19 simply a way to diffuse and blunt criticism of
20 ourselves to put major burning issues back on
21 the public.
22 We are here to do a job. We
23 should be doing it. I vote no.
4286
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Oppenheimer is in the negative.
3 Continue the roll call.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki.
7 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson
9 excused.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
13 SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Santiago.
16 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears
18 voting in the affirmative earlier today.
19 Senator Seward.
20 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer.
22 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
4287
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
3 SENATOR SMITH: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
7 SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Stachowski.
10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Stafford.
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Stavisky.
16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
17 I rise for the purpose of explaining my vote.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
19 Stavisky to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR STAVISKY: In the course
21 of the debate, some members have cited the
22 experience of Constitutional Conventions and the
23 wisdom of other legislators who have spoken on
4288
1 this issue.
2 This may be an appropriate time
3 to recall the service of a previous member of
4 the state Senate. He was middle of the road; on
5 some issues he was conservative, on other issues
6 he was considered more liberal, but he served
7 with great distinction here. His name was
8 Senator Frank O'Connor, and in the course of his
9 service here he did as other members of the
10 Legislature have done, he maintained a law
11 practice.
12 There came to Senator Frank
13 O'Connor's office one day long before he became
14 district attorney of Queens County or President
15 of the New York City Council or a state Supreme
16 Court justice, while he was a state Senator
17 sitting in one of these seats, there came a man
18 by the name of Belistrato, a musician who was
19 unemployed, who went to a lending institution
20 and sought a loan, which was turned down.
21 Desperate, this man had no idea
22 of where to turn. By a twist of fate, hours
23 after this man, a resident of Jackson Heights in
4289
1 Queens, had appeared at this lending institution
2 and was turned down, somebody appeared who rob
3 bed that institution, and there were witnesses
4 who said that it was Mr. Belistrato who did
5 this.
6 He was indicted; he was tried; he
7 was convicted. He was imprisoned. His family
8 life was destroyed. His wife went insane and
9 committed suicide. Years later someone came
10 forward, was arrested and tried for this crime.
11 A major motion picture was made of this case.
12 It was called THE WRONG MAN, and some of you may
13 recall Henry Fonda portraying the role of Mr.
14 Belistrato, and some may recall that the
15 distinguished Irish actor, Anthony Quayle,
16 portrayed Frank O'Connor.
17 Belistrato was subsequently re
18 leased because they truly had the wrong man.
19 But who in this chamber, whether by Constitu
20 tional Amendment or by ordinary legislation,
21 would wish to sentence the wrong person to the
22 death penalty and then discover at a later date
23 that we truly had the wrong man. In the
4290
1 Belistrato case, it was possible for him to be
2 released, although his life had been shattered,
3 but in the case of capital punishment, there is
4 no turning back when you have convicted and
5 sentenced the wrong man.
6 I vote in the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
8 Stavisky in the negative.
9 Continue the roll.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
11 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
13 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
15 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
17 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
18 to explain my vote.
19 Very quickly, and you know,
20 Senator Stavisky, I've heard those stories on a
21 regular basis and certainly many of them are
22 certainly valid. But, Senator, 2500 people-plus
23 last year, innocent people, were killed in this
4291
1 state.
2 What I'm trying to point out to
3 you, Senator, is that innocent people are
4 executed every day in this state. In the
5 history of this state, by the way, there has
6 been no case verified of a person who has been
7 executed who was later found to be innocent.
8 Three professors from California came in here
9 and tried to do an interesting study which we've
10 pretty well shown -- we were able to show that
11 the cases that they dealt with were cases where
12 there was ample evidence of the guilt of the
13 people, but mainly what happened is that they
14 were cases where the person, as he was being
15 executed, said, "I wasn't guilty" or somebody
16 else said they weren't guilty, and so forth.
17 Yes, there is, I suppose, the
18 possibility and there certainly is. I would
19 point out to you one thing about death penalty
20 cases, though. Many people who have been
21 convicted in non-death penalty cases, had there
22 been a death penalty available, the likelihood
23 of their conviction would have been much less
4292
1 because, clearly, in death penalty cases there
2 is a much, much greater impetus to check the
3 evidence and make sure that everything in the
4 case is absolutely proper.
5 It's one reason why, 13 years
6 later, Senator Gold pointed out today that a
7 person was released, simply, or not released but
8 was given a new trial simply because of the
9 charge to the jury. Those of us who are lawyers
10 know what that is. They didn't like the way
11 things went; there was some risk involved there,
12 so they decided to find a reason to do a new
13 trial.
14 Senator, the only thing I'm
15 saying is this, and I understand that there are
16 bad cases. Senator, I say once again the bad
17 cases out there, several thousand of them every
18 year, and they cry out for some sort of legisla
19 tion, and I believe that the Constitutional
20 Amendment that we're talkin' of today is the
21 thing that needs to be done to deal with those
22 kinds of innocent people.
23 I vote aye.
4293
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Volker in the affirmative.
3 Continue the roll call.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
6 Waldon to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
8 briefly to explain my vote.
9 I've listened to my colleagues
10 here today, and I've heard the arguments not
11 only today but in previous years about the death
12 penalty but never in the context of a Constitu
13 tional Amendment process via referendum or
14 otherwise, and I find it very interesting that
15 we're going to tamper with the very foundation
16 of what government is all about in this state in
17 order to express the will of certain of our
18 colleagues.
19 The argument was made that we are
20 here to represent the people and that the reason
21 that such a referendum is necessary is that the
22 Governor sitting today and the Governor who
23 preceded him would always veto when the death
4294
1 penalty was passed as legislation. And perhaps
2 in the human experience of going to the ballot
3 box, the population of the state of New York,
4 eighteen and a half million people make a
5 mistake in terms of choosing the leader, but
6 when you break the state down into its smaller
7 compartments, the 150 Assembly Districts and the
8 61 Senatorial Districts, certainly all of the
9 people all of the time have not made a mistake.
10 The greatest right that we have
11 perhaps in America, the greatest rights I should
12 say, are freedom of speech, freedom of religion
13 and the freedom to go to the ballot box and
14 express ourselves. If the will of the people is
15 truly to be done, could they not go to the
16 ballot box next time around and, in each
17 Assembly District and in each Senatorial
18 District, express themselves in such a way that
19 the Governor's veto would be overridden? Then
20 we wouldn't have to tamper with the
21 Constitution. We would not have to attack the
22 foundation of our governance in this state of
23 New York.
4295
1 I think that would be the better
2 way. Let all of us who are political animals
3 rally around the flag that is our particular
4 will in terms of this penalty, this death
5 penalty, this thing that we argue today. I
6 would hope that that would be the better route
7 to follow than the route that's being expressed
8 in terms of this constitutional recommendation
9 which, in my opinion, is the worst thing that we
10 can do in terms of changing the way we do
11 business as a government in the state of New
12 York, and I vote negatively, in the no.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
14 Waldon is in the negative.
15 Continue the roll call.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
19 Absentees.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor.
21 SENATOR CONNOR: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Halperin.
4296
1 (There was no response. )
2 Senator Johnson.
3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator
5 Masiello.
6 (There was no response. )
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's
8 it. Results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays
10 20.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
12 resolution is adopted.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Such gusto, Mr.
14 President!
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Where
16 are we at? Senator Present, is that -
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Regular
19 order.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 434, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number
22 3722-A, an act to amend the Education Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: O.K.
4297
1 SENATOR JONES: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
3 Explanation.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 465, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 643
9 A, Emergency Housing Rent Control Law.
10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
12 Explanation. Senator Hannon.
13 Senator Mega?
14 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
15 President.
16 This bill requires landlords be
17 given a written notice before -- in 21 days
18 prior to the filing of a service reduction
19 complaint. Because there is so much of an
20 enormous backlog of these cases at the Division
21 of Housing and Community Renewal, many times the
22 people who run the buildings are not informed of
23 the problems until months and months later when
4298
1 all the facts are very much hazy and not able to
2 be totally ascertained.
3 So the idea would be to cut down
4 on the backlog, allow people to make corrections
5 by knowing immediately as to what the complaints
6 would be, and to discourage the administrative
7 costs that are attendant upon the current
8 system.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
10 Espada.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, Mr.
12 President. I rise to speak to a better way
13 there. Senator Goodman's Senate Bill 1330
14 speaks to providing notice, speaks to an
15 administrative process that certainly can be
16 enacted, remedies could be enacted within 14
17 days. Inasmuch as a remedy, a better way, is in
18 place available to us, I would argue and I would
19 suggest that we not vote in favor of this
20 particular bill but await the introduction, the
21 debate, the hopeful approval of Senate Bill
22 1330, a true bipartisan remedy to this problem.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the
4299
1 last section.
2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Oh, no, no.
3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Slow roll
4 call.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
7 Solomon.
8 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Hannon,
9 will you yield, please?
10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
12 Hannon yields.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, let me
14 ask you a question. Let's say the New York City
15 agency comes in, housing inspector comes in and
16 they issue a violation to the landlord, and the
17 landlord gets a copy of the violation.
18 Under this legislation, if the -
19 after that violation was issued to the landlord
20 and the tenant subsequently puts in a decrease
21 or an application for a decrease in rent as a
22 result of the violation, would that tenant still
23 have to inform the landlord in writing of the
4300
1 decrease, for the repair?
2 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. Yes.
3 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, if this -
4 Senator, just one step. So official notice from
5 an agency of the city of New York is not
6 sufficient notice to the landlord?
7 SENATOR HANNON: No. Your
8 premise is wrong because there are two separate
9 systems. We haven't even attempted to address
10 that inequity. There is currently systems in
11 regard to rent levels, and there's a whole
12 separate building code inspection system.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Right.
14 SENATOR HANNON: So that those
15 cannot be mixed up. One is not dealt with at
16 all in this legislation.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, let -
18 let me ask you another question. Senator, an
19 inspector comes in, and the ceiling has fallen
20 down, and the inspector writes a violation and
21 the landlord receives the violation and, under
22 the rent stabilization code, the tenant would be
23 entitled to reduction of rent for that
4301
1 violation.
2 That notice is not sufficient
3 unless the tenant sends written -- additional
4 written notice to the landlord.
5 SENATOR HANNON: Currently that
6 -- your premise is wrong and it doesn't happen
7 that way. If the building code came in and
8 found a violation, that results in absolutely
9 nothing happening to the rent.
10 SENATOR SOLOMON: That's
11 correct. The tenant subsequently files for a
12 rent decrease.
13 SENATOR HANNON: Excuse me. I
14 don't think I've yielded again.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
16 Solomon, before -
17 SENATOR HANNON: The current
18 system.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
20 Solomon, would you please address the chair.
21 Senator Hannon's point is well taken. Do you
22 wish him to yield?
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator
4302
1 Hannon?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Yes, to
3 additional questions?
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: No, I want to
5 speak on the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
7 Solomon on the bill.
8 SENATOR SOLOMON: On this bill,
9 despite twists and turns that I just heard, the
10 fact of the matter is that there is a long list
11 of housing code violations, housing code items
12 for which violations are issued in the city of
13 New York.
14 The fact of the matter is that,
15 if a violation is issued, in many instances a
16 tenant can subsequently file for a decrease in
17 rent as a result of a decrease in services,
18 i.e., a bell buzzer system that does not work
19 for security reasons that a tenant may have been
20 paying an increased rent level for over a number
21 of years, or if he hasn't can still apply for a
22 reduction in rent services, reduction in rent as
23 a result of decrease in services.
4303
1 Now, those violations in many
2 instances, many times before the tenants apply
3 for them, are issued by an official agency of
4 the city of New York. The landlord receives a
5 copy of that violation. What this bill is doing
6 is taking every tenant and saying, even though
7 you receive the notice, even though the landlord
8 received the notice from an official agency of
9 the city of New York that there was a violation,
10 that tenant still has to write to that landlord
11 before the tenant can subsequently apply for a
12 decrease in rent under the rent stabilization
13 code, and that's what's wrong with this bill.
14 If this bill was reworded and
15 drafted properly and said "or", that's a
16 different consideration. However, to require
17 the tenant, after a violation has been issued,
18 to still notify the landlord and then still get
19 into the issues of whether or not notice was
20 received, et cetera, et cetera, I think we're
21 having duplicity implemented here, and the fact
22 of the matter is that we're not making the
23 system simpler; we're making the system much
4304
1 more complicated because we're going to have
2 constant arguments as to whether or not there
3 was sufficient notice and, in fact, I think we
4 would even have a court case as to whether or
5 not there was a sufficient notice.
6 This is a bad piece of
7 legislation which wasn't thought through, in my
8 opinion, and I think this legislation is going
9 to make the situation worse, create additional
10 problems, and the fact of the matter is, in many
11 instances that my office has dealt with this
12 situation, that tenants are only applying for
13 decreases in services after violations have been
14 issued by the housing agencies within the city
15 of New York, and I think this bill just
16 complicates the system. As I said, it's going
17 to make it much worse for a lot of the people
18 that are involved in the system.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Is there
20 any further debate on Senator Hannon's bill?
21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Slow roll
22 call.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the
4305
1 last section.
2 Slow roll call asked for, five
3 members please.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the
7 roll. Slow roll call.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush
9 excused.
10 Senator Bruno.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor.
13 SENATOR CONNOR: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook.
15 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly.
17 SENATOR DALY: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator
19 DeFrancisco.
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Dollinger.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
4306
1 THE SECRETARY: I didn't hear
2 what he said.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
5 (Negative indication. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
7 (There was no response. )
8 Senator Galiber.
9 (There was no response. )
10 Senator Gold.
11 (There was no response. )
12 Senator Gonzalez.
13 (There was no response. )
14 Senator Goodman.
15 SENATOR GOODMAN: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Halperin.
18 (There was no response. )
19 Senator Hannon.
20 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Hoffmann.
23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes.
4307
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones.
6 SENATOR JONES: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
8 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
10 (There was no response. )
11 Senator Larkin.
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter
16 voting in the negative earlier today.
17 Senator Levy. Senator Levy.
18 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
4308
1 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino.
3 (Affirmative indication. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Aye.
5 Senator Markowitz.
6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator
8 Masiello.
9 (There was no response. )
10 Senator Mega.
11 SENATOR MEGA: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
13 SENATOR MENDEZ: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Montgomery.
16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan
18 voting in the negative earlier today.
19 Senator Nozzolio.
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Ohrenstein. No.
23 Senator Onorato.
4309
1 SENATOR ONORATO: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Oppenheimer.
4 (There was no response. )
5 Senator Padavan.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
7 I rise to explain my vote.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
9 Padavan to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
11 the points made by Senator Solomon are very
12 much, very much to the point of what makes this
13 bill somewhat of a problem, with all due respect
14 to the sponsor.
15 The notion that we are providing
16 equity for the landlord by giving him notice so
17 that he could correct the violations and
18 thereupon -- thereby not have to incur a loss of
19 revenues in terms of rents -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
21 Padavan, excuse me.
22 Can we have some order in the
23 house, please. Some order in the house, please,
4310
1 and take conversations outside.
2 Senator Padavan.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: As I said, Mr.
4 President, the notion that we are providing for
5 equity between the tenant and the landlord, by
6 giving that landlord proper notice so that he
7 can make the repairs and not have to incur the
8 loss of rents is really specious because that
9 isn't the reality of the world we live in.
10 The fact of the matter is, prior
11 to this action ever being taken in every
12 instance that I've been aware of and there have
13 been many of them, there are violations after
14 violations imposed by city agencies, city
15 Department of Rent and Housing Maintenance or
16 the Building Department, for serious code
17 infractions, and landlords in some cases find it
18 to their economic benefit to simply ignore those
19 violations or pay a fine of a minimal
20 magnitude.
21 It isn't until they get faced,
22 they are faced with the reality of having rents
23 reduced or withheld, that appropriate remedial
4311
1 actions are taken.
2 It's undesirable that it ever has
3 to get to this point. The fact of the matter is
4 without it, these code violations simply are not
5 addressed in too many instances, and I don't
6 wish to categorize all landlords in that
7 statement, but there are enough of them which
8 makes it necessary for us not to change the one
9 tool, the only effective tool that many tenants
10 have to live in a decent house in a decent
11 building in a decent apartment.
12 I vote no.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
14 Padavan in the negative.
15 Continue the roll call.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki.
17 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson
19 excused.
20 Senator Present.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
23 SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
4312
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Santiago.
3 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears
5 voting in the affirmative earlier today.
6 Senator Seward.
7 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer.
9 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
13 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Smith
14 says no.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
16 SENATOR SOLOMON: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
18 (Negative indication. )
19 THE SECRETARY: No.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
21 Spano in the negative.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Stachowski.
4313
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Stafford.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Stavisky.
7 SENATOR STAVISKY: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
11 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
13 SENATOR VELELLA: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
15 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
17 (Negative indication.)
18 THE SECRETARY: No.
19 Senator Wright.
20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
22 Absentees, please.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
4314
1 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber.
3 (There was no response. )
4 Senator Gold.
5 (There was no response. )
6 Senator Galiber.
7 SENATOR GALIBER: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
9 (There was no response. )
10 Senator Gonzalez.
11 (Negative indication. )
12 THE SECRETARY: No.
13 Senator Halperin.
14 (There was no response. )
15 Senator Lack.
16 (There was no response. )
17 Senator Masiello.
18 (There was no response. )
19 Senator Oppenheimer.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Nay.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Masiello.
23 (There was no response. )
4315
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: We call
2 the absentees, please. Absentees.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
4 (There was no response. )
5 Senator Halperin.
6 (There was no response. )
7 Senator Lack.
8 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Masiello.
11 (There was no response. )
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Results,
13 please.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31, nays
15 25.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 827, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4588,
20 an act to amend the Public Health Law, in
21 relation to requiring consent for visual
22 observation.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Last
4316
1 section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2,
8 Senators Kuhl and Maltese recorded in the
9 negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill
11 is passed.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Can we do
13 some house... Senator Present, there's several
14 motions that have to be -
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
16 let's take care of the housekeeping.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
18 Marchi.
19 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
20 on page 37, I offer the following amendments to
21 Calendar Number 900.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
23 Amendments received and adopted.
4317
1 Senator Saland.
2 SENATOR MARCHI: And -- I haven't
3 finished yet.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Oh,
5 Senator Marchi, I'm sorry.
6 SENATOR MARCHI: I ask that the
7 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
8 Calendar, if you will remove the star.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Star
10 removed.
11 Senator Saland.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
13 on page 29, I offer the following amendments to
14 Calendar 923, Senate Print 5372, and ask that
15 the bill retain its place.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: So
17 ordered.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, on
20 behalf of Senator Skelos, who is senior to me, I
21 call up his Bill Number 4309 recalled from the
22 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary
4318
1 will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
3 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 4309, an act to amend
4 the Judiciary Law, in relation to lawyer
5 assistance committees.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
7 now move to reconsider the vote by which Senator
8 Skelos' bill was passed.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll on
12 reconsideration.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
15 offer up the following amendments.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
17 Amendments received and adopted.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: And on behalf of
20 Senator Skelos, I wish to call up his bill Print
21 Number 4540-B, which is now at the desk.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary
23 will read.
4319
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 747, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 4540
3 B, an act to amend the Executive Law.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
5 on behalf of Senator Skelos, who is standing
6 next to me, I now move to reconsider the bill
7 which was passed and ask that the bill be
8 restored to Third Reading Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: So
10 ordered. Call the roll on reconsideration.
11 (The Secretary called the roll on
12 reconsideration.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
15 now move to discharge the bill from the
16 Committee on Rules, Print Number 6706-A and
17 substitute it for Mr. Skelos' identical bill.
18 The Senate bill on first -- O.K.? The Senate
19 bill on first passage was voted unanimously. I
20 now move that the substituted Assembly bill have
21 its third reading at this time, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
23 Substitution ordered. Read the last section.
4320
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator
10 Kuhl.
11 Oh, the bill is passed.
12 Senator Kuhl.
13 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
14 President. I wish to call up my bill, Senate
15 Print 4428, recalled from the Assembly which is
16 now at the desk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary
18 will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl,
20 Senate Bill Number 4428, Agriculture and Markets
21 Law.
22 SENATOR KUHL: I now move to re
23 consider the vote by which this bill was
4321
1 passed.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll on
5 reconsideration. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Offer up the
8 following amendments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
10 Amendments received.
11 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary
13 will read substitutions.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 8 of
15 today's calendar, Senator Farley moves to
16 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
17 Bill Number 6368 and substitute it for the
18 identical Calendar Number 321.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:
20 Substitution ordered.
21 That it? Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
23 I'd like to announce an immediate meeting of the
4322
1 Rules Committee in Room 332.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Immediate
3 meeting of the Rules Committee in the usual
4 place.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Right, and then
6 following that Rules Committee report, we will
7 be voting on all those actions to be taken
8 tomorrow or later. I'll adjourn following the
9 report of the Rules Committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: There
11 will be a Rules Committee report after meeting
12 and you say adjourned until tomorrow. Stand in
13 recess for now.
14 (The Senate recessed from 5:56
15 p.m., to 6:35 p.m.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
17 Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 may we return to reports of standing committees
20 and have them read, please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk
22 will read.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino,
4323
1 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
2 following bills directly for third reading:
3 Senate Bill Number 379, by
4 Senator Volker, General Municipal Law;
5 1548, by Senator Farley,
6 permitting the establishment of the town of Day
7 Fire Protection District;
8 1936, by Senator Maltese, Court
9 of Claims Act;
10 2281-A, by Senator Cook,
11 Education Law;
12 2523, by Senator Stafford, an act
13 to amend the County Law;
14 2683, by Senator Present,
15 conveyance of certain lands, purposes by the
16 county of Allegany;
17 2696, by Senator Volker, service
18 credit for time served in the Cadet Nurse Corps;
19 2961, by Senator Trunzo, amends
20 Chapter 736 of the Laws of 1975;
21 3009, by Senator Sheffer, an act
22 to amend the Tax Law;
23 3062, by Senator Johnson, State
4324
1 Finance Law and the Environmental Conservation
2 Law;
3 3101, by Senator Padavan,
4 Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
5 3129, by Senator Volker, Local
6 Finance Law;
7 3130, by Senator Volker, Local
8 Finance Law;
9 3352, by Senator Sears, State
10 Finance Law and the General Municipal Law;
11 3787, by Senator Spano, service
12 credit in the New York State and local police;
13 3950-B, by Senator Volker, an act
14 to amend the Tax Law;
15 4176, by Senator Cook, exemption
16 from real property, certain property owned by
17 the county of Sullivan;
18 4180-A, by Senator Lack, amends
19 Chapter 994 of the Laws of 1984;
20 4402, by Senator Larkin, an act
21 to amend the County Law;
22 4474-A, by Senator Maltese,
23 Retirement and Social Security Law;
4325
1 4660, by Senator Saland, Family
2 Court Act;
3 4734, by Senator Saland,
4 Executive Law;
5 4795, by Senator Daly, Education
6 Law;
7 4849, by Senator Levy, Public
8 Authorities Law;
9 4872, by Senator Hannon, relation
10 to the duration of eligible lists for police
11 officer;
12 4963, by Senator Stafford,
13 conveyance of certain state lands to the Malone
14 Central School District;
15 5008, by Senator Nozzolio,
16 extension of the maximum maturity of certain
17 bond anticipation notes;
18 5289, by Senator Mega, an act to
19 amend the Judiciary Law;
20 5311, by Senator Cook, Education
21 Law;
22 5324, by Senator Bruno, Highway
23 Law;
4326
1 5479-A, by Senator Cook, Delaware
2 Valley Central School District;
3 5552-B, by Senator Levy, Election
4 Law;
5 5572, by Senator Padavan, General
6 City Law; and
7 5701, by the Committee on Rules,
8 certain police disability retirement benefits.
9 All bills reported directly for
10 third reading.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without
12 objection, third reading.
13 Senator Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
15 there being no further business, I move we
16 adjourn until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senate
18 adjourns until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m., June 2nd.
19 (Whereupon at 6:39 p.m., the
20 Senate adjourned.)
21
22
23