Regular Session - June 24, 1993
5760
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 24, 1993
11 2:24 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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16
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18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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5761
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please
4 find their seats. If you will please rise with
5 me for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
8 Today we're pleased to have with
9 us as visiting clergy the Rabbi Hyman Levine,
10 Bayside Terrace Jewish Center of Bayside, New
11 York.
12 Rabbi Levine.
13 RABBI LEVINE: Would you all
14 kindly rise for the opening prayer.
15 Ever living God, Creator of all,
16 we invoke Thy divine blessing upon the men and
17 women of this assemblage of New York State
18 Senators, who appreciate and value the spiritual
19 gift of representative government. Bestow upon
20 them courage and judicious judgment, for they
21 are charged with the responsibilities of guiding
22 and conducting the affairs of our beloved
23 state. May they never lose sight of their
5762
1 obligations to advance the good and welfare of
2 all the people within its borders. May this
3 noble body be inspired to formulate policies
4 which will ensure justice and peace for every
5 one.
6 Heavenly Father, endow all of the
7 people of this state with understanding that we
8 are sisters and brothers sharing our common
9 humanity, duties and ideals. Amidst a strife
10 torn world and ever increasing divisiveness
11 everywhere, we pray that the time may not be
12 distant when the darkness of prejudice will give
13 way to the light of Thy love, O Lord, and may
14 the light of Thy love help us to usher in that
15 long awaited era when everyone will enjoy the
16 blessings of freedom from want and fear, when
17 peace and harmony will fill the hearts of all
18 Thy children everywhere. Amen.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank
20 you, Rabbi.
21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
23 Stavisky.
5763
1 SENATOR STAVISKY: I know it's
2 not customary to make any remarks, but I do wish
3 the record to reflect that Rabbi Levine is the
4 spiritual leader of the Bay Terrace Jewish
5 Center and, by the way, he represents Senator
6 Onorato. He has seniority over both of us in
7 the representation spiritually.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank
9 you. Thank you, sir.
10 The Secretary will begin by
11 reading the Journal.
12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
13 Wednesday, June 23rd. The Senate met pursuant to
14 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon
15 designation of the Temporary President. The
16 Journal of Tuesday, June 22nd, was read and
17 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing
19 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as
20 read.
21 The order of business:
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
5764
1 Messages from the Governor.
2 Reports of standing committees.
3 Reports of select committees.
4 Communications and reports from
5 state officers.
6 Motions and resolutions. We have
7 some motions on the floor.
8 Senator Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 I would move that we adopt the Resolution
11 Calendar that's on our desks.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in
13 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar, say
14 aye.
15 ((Response of "Aye.")
16 Those opposed nay.
17 (There was no response. )
18 The Resolution Calendar is
19 adopted.
20 I thought that we passed it.
21 Senator Present, our good Secretary passed over
22 the report of a standing committee, if I may
23 back up and do that. Secretary will read a
5765
1 report of a standing committee.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino,
3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
4 following bills directly for third reading:
5 Senate Bill Number 26-A, by
6 Senator Tully, an act to amend the Public Health
7 Law;
8 1493, by Senator Espada,
9 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
10 interest in certain real property;
11 1568, by Senator Johnson, an act
12 to amend the Tax Law;
13 1589, by Senator Onorato,
14 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
15 interest in certain real property;
16 2020-A, by Senator Spano and
17 others, Mental Hygiene Law and the General
18 Municipal Law;
19 3110, by Senator Skelos, an act
20 to amend the General Business Law;
21 3176, by Senator LaValle, an act
22 to amend the Education Law;
23 3944, by Senator Sears,
5766
1 Agriculture and Markets Law;
2 4099-A, by Senator Spano, Vehicle
3 and Traffic Law;
4 4186, by Senator Bruno, an act to
5 amend the Public Authorities Law;
6 4247, by Senator Tully,
7 authorizing the assessor of the county of Nassau
8 to accept an application for exemption;
9 5253, by Senator -- Senators Daly
10 and others, Real Property Law;
11 5666-A, by Senator Trunzo, Civil
12 Service Law, in relation to the duration of
13 civil service eligible lists;
14 5672, by -- 5672-A, by Senator
15 Saland, Agriculture and Markets Law;
16 5917, by Senator Johnson, an act
17 to amend the Education Law;
18 5918, by Senator Padavan, Mental
19 Hygiene Law;
20 5921, by Senator Trunzo, amends
21 Chapter 509 of the Laws of 1992;
22 5959, by Senator Maltese, Civil
23 Service Law;
5767
1 5991, by the Senate Committee on
2 Rules, Racing, Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding
3 Law;
4 All bills reported directly for
5 third reading.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All
7 bills are reported directly to third reading.
8 Senator Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 I believe Senator Marino has a privileged
11 resolution at the desk. May we have the title
12 read and acted upon.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would
14 the Secretary please read Senator Marino's
15 privileged resolution.
16 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
17 Resolution, by Senator Marino, honoring William
18 Pattison of Hauppauge upon the occasion of his
19 retirement following a distinguished career of
20 33 years with the Nassau County Police
21 Department.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in
23 favor of the resolution, say aye.
5768
1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 Those opposed nay.
3 (There was no response. )
4 The resolution is adopted.
5 Senator Kuhl, do you have a
6 motion?
7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
8 President. I have several of them. On behalf
9 of Senator Seward, on page number 7, I offer the
10 following amendments to Calendar Number 315,
11 Senate Print Number 2518, and ask that said bill
12 retain its place on third reading.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill
14 will retain its place; amendments are received.
15 SENATOR KUHL: Also on behalf of
16 Senator Daly, on page 11, I offer the following
17 amendments to Calendar Number 651, Senate Print
18 4583-A and ask that said bill retain its place
19 on the Third Reading Calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
21 objection, the bill will retain its place.
22 SENATOR KUHL: And on behalf of
23 Senator Spano, on page 35, I offer the following
5769
1 amendments to Calendar Number 1297, Senate Print
2 5909, and ask that said bill retain its place on
3 the Third Reading Calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
5 Amendments are received. The bills will retain
6 their places.
7 Senator Volker.
8 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
9 on page 22, I offer the following amendments to
10 Calendar Number 907, Senate Print Number 4870-A,
11 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
12 Third Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
14 Amendments are received. Bill will retain its
15 place.
16 Senator Marchi.
17 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
18 on page 22, I offer the following amendments on
19 Calendar Number 900, Senate Print Number 3919-B
20 and request in an it retain its place on the
21 Third Reading Calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
23 objection, amendments are received, the bill
5770
1 will retain its place.
2 Senator Mega.
3 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, on
4 behalf of Senator Stafford, on page 29, I offer
5 the following amendments to Calendar Number
6 1236, Senate Print Number 5866, and ask that
7 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading
8 Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
10 objection.
11 SENATOR MEGA: On behalf of
12 Senator Skelos, Mr. President, I wish to call up
13 his Senate Print 568-A, recalled from the
14 Assembly which is now at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Secretary will read 568-A.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Skelos, an act to amend the Real Property Law
19 and the Banking Law, in relation to reverse
20 mortgages.
21 SENATOR MEGA: I now move to
22 reconsider the vote by which this bill was
23 passed.
5771
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
2 the roll on reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
7 bill is before the house.
8 Senator Mega.
9 SENATOR MEGA: I now offer up the
10 following amendments.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
12 Amendments are received. The bill will retain
13 its place.
14 Senator Present, we have some
15 subs.
16 SENATOR PRESENT: Leet's make the
17 substitutions.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
19 Secretary will read the substitutions.
20 THE SECRETARY: On page 6,
21 Senator Levy moves to discharge the Committee on
22 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6113-B and
23 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
5772
1 186.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
3 Substitution ordered.
4 THE SECRETARY: On page 33,
5 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the Committee
6 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7979 and
7 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
8 1279.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
10 Substitution ordered.
11 THE SECRETARY: On page 33,
12 Senator Larkin moves to discharge the Committee
13 on Local Government from Assembly Bill Number
14 2634 and substitute it for the identical
15 Calendar Number 1281.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
17 Substitution is ordered.
18 THE SECRETARY: On page 33,
19 Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the
20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number
21 8035-A, and substitute it for the identical
22 Third Reading 1283.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
5773
1 Substitution is ordered.
2 THE SECRETARY: On page 34,
3 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee
4 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6837, and
5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
6 1286.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
8 Substitution is ordered.
9 THE SECRETARY: On page 34,
10 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee
11 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6838 and
12 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
13 1289.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
15 Substitution is ordered.
16 THE SECRETARY: On page 34,
17 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee
18 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6842 and
19 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
20 1290.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
22 Substitution ordered.
23 THE SECRETARY: On page 36,
5774
1 Senator Volker moves to discharge the Committee
2 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8420 and
3 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
4 1299.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
6 Substitution ordered.
7 THE SECRETARY: On page 42,
8 Senator Libous moves to discharge the Committee
9 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6199-B and
10 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
11 894.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
13 Substitution ordered.
14 Are there any other motions on
15 the floor?
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 take up the non-controversial calendar.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
20 Non-controversial, the Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 8,
22 Calendar Number 395, by Senator Kuhl.
23 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for
5775
1 the day, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
3 aside for the day.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 806, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
6 2744-A, an act to amend the Education Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 808, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4341-A,
19 an act to amend the Education Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5776
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly,
9 Assembly Bill Number 2396-A.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1185, by Senator Masiello.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day
16 on that?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
18 -- lay it aside for the day, Senator Present.
19 (Senator Present nods head.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar
21 Number -
22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5777
1 Gold.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Senate 808
3 which we just passed, I'm informed that Senator
4 Oppenheimer wanted that laid aside. Could we
5 reconsider that vote, please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
7 the roll on reconsideration of 808.
8 (The Secretary called the roll on
9 reconsideration. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1217, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number -
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for
16 today.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
18 aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1234, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number
21 5808, an act to amend the Public Service Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
23 the last section.
5778
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1250, by Senator Hannon.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for
13 the day, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
15 aside for today.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5263.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay this aside
19 for the day.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
21 this aside for today.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1255, by Senator Holland.
5779
1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay aside for
2 the day, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
4 aside for the day.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
7 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General
8 Municipal Law, in relation to -
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
11 aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
14 5900, an act to amend the Environmental
15 Conservation Law and the Economic -
16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
18 aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1263, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill -
21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
23 aside.
5780
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1264, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number
3 5931, amend the Administrative Code of the city
4 of New York.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
6 Trunzo has a home rule message here at the
7 desk. You can read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1269, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
18 3211-A, Administrative Code of the city of New
19 York.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day
21 on that?
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside
23 temporarily.
5781
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
2 aside temporarily.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1270, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number
5 3355, authorizing the re-opening of the 20-year
6 retirement plan to police officers.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's
8 a home rule message here at the desk. You can
9 read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays
16 one, Senator Galiber recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1271, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3718,
21 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Wasn't this passed
23 last week, this one?
5782
1 SENATOR KUHL: No.
2 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1272, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 3747,
15 authorizing Robert Leib to make application for
16 a disability retirement allowance.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5783
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 3,
2 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in
3 the negative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1273, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number
8 3763, relation to allowing certain employees of
9 the East Ramapo Central School District to
10 transfer service credit.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 3,
19 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in
20 the negative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5784
1 1274, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
2 3811-A, State Administrative Procedure Act.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1275, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number
10 4492-A, an act to amend the Insurance -
11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
13 aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1276, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4593,
16 making certain findings and determinations with
17 respect to certain bond anticipation renewal
18 notes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's
20 a home rule message here at the desk. You can
21 read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5785
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1277, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 4645,
9 in relation to employees of the Mental Hygiene
10 Legal Services.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1278, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number
23 4669-A, Retirement and Social Security Law and
5786
1 the Administrative Code of the city of New
2 York.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1279, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
15 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7979,
16 amends Chapter 929 of the Laws of 1986, amending
17 the Tax Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
23 the roll.
5787
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1280, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
7 4811, an act to amend the Tax Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1281, substituted earlier today, by member of
20 the Assembly Robach, Assembly Bill Number 2634,
21 Real Property Tax Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
23 the last section.
5788
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1282, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 5480,
11 authorizing the town of Rosendale to discontinue
12 the use of certain park lands.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's
14 a home rule message here at the desk. You can
15 read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bill is passed.
5789
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1283, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
3 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8035-A,
4 an act to amend the Town Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
6 the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1284, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number
17 5692, Retirement and Social Security Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
19 Pataki has a home rule message here, so you can
20 read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
5790
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1285, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 5741,
8 amends Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991, amending
9 the Tax Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1286, substituted earlier today, by member of
22 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number
23 6837, State Administrative Procedure Act.
5791
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
6 the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll. )
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1287, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
13 5818, State Administrative Procedure Act.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bill is passed.
5792
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1288, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
3 5819-A, State Administrative Procedure Act.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Could we have
13 that laid aside, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
15 Withdraw the roll call.
16 SENATOR GOLD: No, go on.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
18 Continue the roll call on 1288.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1289, substituted yearly earlier today, by
5793
1 member of the Assembly Seabrook, State
2 Administrative Procedure Act.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside for
4 Senator Leichter.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
6 that bill aside for Senator Leichter.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1290, substituted earlier today, by member of
9 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number
10 6842, State Administrative Procedure Act.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1291, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5825,
23 relation to the allocation and utilization of
5794
1 certain monies.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
3 the last section.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1292, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number
9 5834, an act to amend the Environmental
10 Conservation Law.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
13 aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1294, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
16 5838, an act to amend the General Municipal Law
17 and the Personal Property Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
23 the roll.
5795
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1295, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number
7 5841-A, proposing an amendment to the
8 Constitution.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
10 aside.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day
12 on that?
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
14 for today.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
16 aside for today.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1296, by Senator Jones, Senate Bill Number 5891,
19 making certain findings and determinations with
20 respect to certain revenue anticipation notes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Jones has a home rule message here at the desk.
23 You can read the last section.
5796
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1298, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the
11 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number
12 8498 and substitute it for the identical Third
13 Reading 1298.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
15 Substitution ordered. Read the last section of
16 Senator Stafford's bill.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
5797
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1299, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
4 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8420,
5 an act to amend the General Business Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1300, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
18 Bill Number 5962, amends Chapter 1040 of the
19 Laws of 1981.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5798
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
6 bill is passed.
7 Senator Present.
8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
9 shall we take up the controversial calendar,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
12 Whatever you wish. The controversial calendar.
13 THE SECRETARY: On page 17,
14 Calendar Number 808, by Senator Cook, Senate
15 Bill Number 4341-A, an act to amend the
16 Education Law.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
18 President. If the Majority Leader would consent
19 to just pass it temporarily, Senator Oppenheimer
20 is on her way into the chamber but maybe we can
21 do something and come back, and we'll take care
22 of it today.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
5799
1 temporarily.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
3 aside temporarily.
4 THE SECRETARY: On page 27,
5 Calendar Number 1158, by member of the Assembly
6 Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 2396-A,
7 Environmental Conservation Law.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
11 aside temporarily.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
14 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General
15 Municipal Law.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
18 Explanation has been asked for.
19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
21 Maltese.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: This bill
23 provides that no rule or regulation affecting
5800
1 the operation of a city, town or village police
2 department may be promulgated, amended or
3 enforced to decrease the number of police
4 officers assigned to individual police vehicles
5 without a detailed comprehensive review of the
6 safety risks involved as well as the impact the
7 amendments would have upon the safety of the
8 police officers involved and the community which
9 the officers would serve.
10 After this review, any
11 determination made subsequent to this review
12 required by these provisions would be review
13 able de novo by the Industrial Board of
14 Appeals.
15 Mr. President, the problem of
16 police cars, cars manned by law enforcement
17 officers, manned by single law enforcement
18 officers, is one that has come up in this
19 chamber many times. There is no question that
20 police officers who are alone in cars are more
21 susceptible to attack, to injury and ultimately
22 to death.
23 We have an absolute obligation,
5801
1 Mr. President, to try to protect as much as
2 possible our police officers. I have here a
3 table which was forwarded to me by the Federal
4 Bureau of Investigation, the Law Enforcement
5 Support Section. It refers to a title, Law
6 Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed 1982 to
7 1991, circumstances by type of assignment. It
8 goes on at length, Mr. President, but the main
9 point which I wish to allude to in reference to
10 this legislation is the fact that out of -
11 during that time span, out of a total of 743
12 officers killed, 94 were killed in a vehicle
13 manned by two officers and during that very same
14 time, 237 were killed when they were alone in a
15 police vehicle responding to a call. In
16 addition, of those who had called for assistance
17 or were in some way assisted, an additional 131
18 were killed.
19 Now, Mr. President, at a time
20 when we are demanding of our police officers
21 more and more discretion, when we are demanding
22 of them that they refrain from unnecessary
23 shooting, even the unnecessary drawing of their
5802
1 weapons from the holsters, it seems to me that
2 we must provide adequate back-up in the form of
3 at least this legislation, that at the very
4 least where there may be a municipal authority
5 that is willing, for the sake of various fiscal
6 considerations to put the lives of our officers
7 on the line, the least we can do for those very
8 same officers, is provide that we should have
9 some type of a comprehensive review and that
10 that review shall then be subject to some type
11 of a determination by the Industrial Board of -
12 of Appeals.
13 Mr. President, I wish to point
14 out, I'm not going to -- another paragraph which
15 I believe has reference to this from the
16 Criminal Justice Newsletter dated January of
17 1993, and this is a lengthy article -- I don't
18 see the author, but it may be just an editorial
19 -- a lengthy article referring to, in a
20 comprehensive study made of deaths of police
21 officers over a two-year period, and they speak
22 -- I'm sorry, a period between '81 and '90.
23 The reference is made of all the officers killed
5803
1 between '81 and '90, 49 percent were assigned to
2 single officer vehicle patrol at the time of
3 their death.
4 Now, Mr. President, they, in
5 addition, refer to the fact that, in an analysis
6 made of these police officers, all the police
7 officers killed within this period of time, that
8 the majority of them were described by their
9 colleagues and comrades as trusting men. In
10 addition, they were described as people who were
11 very reluctant to draw their weapons. As a
12 matter of fact, a great deal of them had never
13 drawn their weapon, not only at the time of the
14 -- at the time of their slayings, but in the
15 period that they were police officers before
16 that, and this -- this report indicates that -
17 and the report, by the way, was also done by the
18 Federal Bureau of Investigation.
19 It says, Many of the officers'
20 procedural errors -- and they refer to errors
21 that were made outside a suggested course of
22 conduct by the FBI, not necessarily the course
23 of conduct prescribed by the local municipality
5804
1 that they were working for, and they say many of
2 the officers' procedural errors consisted of
3 dropping their guard in various ways, failing to
4 call for back-up support when needed, acting
5 alone prior to the arrival of back-up, failing
6 to search a suspect completely, and so on.
7 The point -- and, in addition,
8 alluding to what I had previously indicated,
9 about the types of demeanor and action that we
10 require instantaneously from these officers, the
11 FBI noted that 85 percent of the victim officers
12 had not discharged their service weapons.
13 Now, Mr. President, it seems to
14 me at the least, as I had indicated previously,
15 that we should provide this measure of support.
16 We are not demanding that they have two or three
17 of four officer -- four officers in a police
18 car. It would be nice if fiscal situations were
19 such across the country and across the state
20 that we could -- that we could have that luxury
21 but at the very same time, before these officers
22 put their lives on the line, it seems to me that
23 we ought to be able to prescribe some course of
5805
1 conduct that has to be undertaken by municipal
2 authorities prior to leaving them unprotected in
3 their police cars.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
6 Leichter.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
8 President, it really seems to me that some of
9 our colleagues here really want to be doing
10 something else. I think they want to leave us
11 or I think they want to become police
12 commissioners or superintendents of police, and
13 I'm going to give to Police Commissioner Maltese
14 and Police Commissioner Velella, I'm going to
15 give you the Civil Service News, about what
16 openings there are in the city of New York or
17 around the nation that would utilize your
18 apparently profound understanding of police
19 work. But until you get one of those jobs, I
20 would hope that in this chamber, Senator
21 Maltese, you would do the job of a Senator
22 instead of this shameless intrusion into the
23 affairs of the city of New York.
5806
1 You know, if -- it is really in
2 so many respects humorous to see you, a voice
3 for conservatism, a voice for less intrusion on
4 the part of government in the affairs of
5 localities, to get up and to mandate -- mandate
6 upon your City this sort of an additional cost
7 in -- in putting two police officers in each
8 police car.
9 Well, you say, Well, I'm not man
10 dating it, but you're setting up a system that
11 really makes it impossibility for the City.
12 This should be a matter that's determined by the
13 police commissioner. He has the responsibil
14 ity. The mayor has the responsibility and it's
15 also a matter for collective bargaining.
16 But whenever it comes to a matter
17 that the police union wants, the Majority in
18 this house is just handmaiden to the police,
19 doesn't matter how irrational, how unreasonable
20 it is, you're going to put that bill in and
21 you're going to be for it.
22 At the very least, Senator
23 Maltese, you ought to have, it seems to me
5807
1 enough consistency to say, and I'm putting in
2 also a bill that's going to raise money for the
3 city of New York so they can pay for that.
4 You're one of the big complainers about how the
5 city of New York isn't doing services in the
6 education and this and that, although frankly, I
7 don't see you fighting for the city of New York
8 when it comes to money, but when it comes to
9 mandates -- mandates -- you're right up there.
10 Sure, put more police officers in
11 -- in police cars. Senator, that's going to
12 cost a lot of money. It means other services
13 aren't going to be provided, and I'd be
14 interested to see, we were recently joined here
15 in this chamber by a local official, Senator
16 Wright, who I understand was a very
17 distinguished local official. Wonder how he'd
18 feel if the Legislature said whatever his
19 community was -- it was in northern New York
20 State -- this Legislature said how many police
21 officers he had to have in a police car or in
22 some other respects.
23 We elect good local officials;
5808
1 hopefully, they're good local officials. They
2 have the responsibility. I'm going to be
3 interested seeing how Senator Wright votes on
4 this. But where is our consistency? Where -
5 where -- where do we have any compass that
6 guides us as to what our responsibilities are
7 and what our responsibilities are not?
8 I don't see anything wrong if
9 Senator Maltese, as a local official coming from
10 New York, urged the mayor to do this, urged the
11 police commissioner to do it. By the way, I
12 don't think your arguments are at all
13 compelling; in fact, some of the arguments that
14 you -- that you made were, frankly, against your
15 bill. But it is a matter that has to be
16 determined by the locality. They've got to pay
17 the bill. They're responsible for the -- for
18 the police and for this continuous interference
19 by this chamber in the affairs of the city of
20 New York City, particularly when it involves the
21 police. And where anything the police does,
22 this chamber cravenly will vote it and that's
23 not in the interests of the people of the city
5809
1 of New York, and it's just such wrong
2 government. It's not what we should be doing up
3 here. We don't have the expertise.
4 I could tell you 50 things,
5 Senator Maltese, we ought to be doing that are
6 not being done, most of which are being held up
7 by the Majority and you're going to get into
8 your private conference and close the doors and
9 behind those closed doors you're going to make
10 decisions affecting the public, and most of them
11 are refusal to put out bills that at least ought
12 to be debated.
13 I'd like to see you fight for
14 some of those things because that's what our job
15 is and not to tell the New York City Police
16 Department how they're to run the department for
17 the safety of the people of the city of New
18 York.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Chairman,
22 I rise in answer to a question -- would the
23 sponsor answer a question?
5810
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Maltese, would you yield to Senator Dollinger?
3 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I
5 understand that your proposal is part of the
6 General Municipal Law and would affect cities,
7 towns and villages.
8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes, that's
9 correct.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And it
11 requires a detailed risk analysis as a part of
12 the -
13 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, Mr.
14 President, the analysis would be detailed, yes.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What would be
16 the anticipated cost to a village of the type of
17 analysis that you're talking about?
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
19 I believe when we're speaking of these types of
20 analysis, ordinarily just as very expeditiously
21 I was able to obtain information from the
22 Federal Bureau of Investigation and other law
23 enforcement agencies apparently stand ready to
5811
1 provide information, it would not be so much a
2 question of the analysis of a great deal of
3 voluminous information. It would be, I think,
4 as we so often see in villages and towns and in
5 some cities, a certain amount of common sense or
6 "horse sense" as we need to say.
7 I think the evaluation of the
8 risks to police officers of law enforcement
9 officers, when you reduce personnel in cars
10 responding to police emergencies, would not
11 require the expenditure of a great deal of
12 money, would not require the expenditure of a
13 great deal of time, but would require the
14 application of common sense to circumstances
15 that would arise or could reasonably be expected
16 to arise in the performance of these police
17 officers' duties.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator
19 Maltese will continue to yield to another
20 question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Dollinger. Would you yield to another
23 question?
5812
1 SENATOR MALTESE: Certainly.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator,
3 there's nothing in this bill that requires the
4 application of common sense, is there?
5 SENATOR MALTESE: Unfortunately,
6 there isn't, and unfortunately, it seems to be a
7 thing that seems to be happening in a great deal
8 of our legislative efforts.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But this
10 requires a detailed analysis, study, in essence
11 it's a public impact study, is it not?
12 SENATOR MALTESE: Undoubtedly it
13 is a study that would have a bearing on the
14 safety of the public and the safety of the
15 police officers and the community that they
16 serve.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who is going
18 to pay the cost -- again through you, Mr.
19 President, who is going to pay the cost of that
20 study? Your bill, again, doesn't say who is
21 going to pay the cost.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
23 the municipalities or the villages and the towns
5813
1 would, I think, incur that cost in the course of
2 the normal operations of their municipal forms
3 of government. It would not be an onerous
4 cost. It would not be a burdensome cost and, as
5 a practical matter, considering what's involved,
6 the lives of our police officers and the members
7 of the community they serve, it would certainly
8 be a cost worth undertaking.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
10 again, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
12 Dollinger.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If the cost
14 is so insignificant, why doesn't the bill
15 provide that the state of New York will pay that
16 cost since we certainly wouldn't want to impose
17 an unfunded mandate to perform this service on
18 the part of villages which may have very small
19 police departments, on towns which may have very
20 moderate size police departments or on cities
21 like New York or Rochester that have very large
22 police departments? Why doesn't the bill require
23 that the state of New York pick up that cost as
5814
1 insignificant as it may be?
2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
3 the costs indicated, while I believe they would
4 be insignificant, they would also be buttressed
5 by the review to the -- to the labor board. Mr.
6 President, that cost, if it proved, in the
7 enactment of this, after the enactment of this
8 legislation, to be burdensome or onerous, I
9 would be glad to sponsor legislation calling for
10 that cost to be incurred and borne by the state
11 of New York.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In other
13 words, if it -- through you, Mr. President, in
14 other words, if it costs a lot of money, you'll
15 pay for it, but you're not willing to require
16 that we pay for it under the current
17 legislation?
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
19 it would seem that, when you have a public
20 servant, whether he be a -- an elected or
21 appointed official of a village or a town or a
22 city, there are certain burdens and obligations
23 he assumes, and one is to protect the -- first,
5815
1 probably the paramount and possibly most
2 important duty and obligation is to protect the
3 lives of those residents residing within that
4 area of government. This is the paramount
5 consideration for them.
6 It would seem, then, that they
7 would be perfectly willing to undertake not only
8 whatever obligations are called for in this
9 bill, but to whatever insignificant costs would
10 be also called for or incurred as a result of
11 this bill.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you
13 again -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you
17 again, Mr. President, if Senator Maltese would
18 yield to another question.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would
20 you yield to another question?
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who pays the
22 cost of the de novo appeal to the Industrial
23 Board of Appeals, and I assume the inevitable
5816
1 court appeal on after that?
2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
3 those -- the appeal is a relatively simple
4 appeal. It could be done by simple petition.
5 It could be done by a written petition which
6 would not require more than one paragraph of -
7 of writing or a piece of paper calling for the
8 appeal.
9 The appeal ordinarily would go to
10 the board; in this case it -- it would be
11 required de novo simply because it could perhaps
12 go into an investigation or go into an analysis
13 that would be possibly inadequate or possibly
14 not as detailed as it should be, so that the
15 board, the Industrial Board, would be able to
16 look at it de novo to see whether or not the
17 decision of the local government should be
18 confirmed or affirmed.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
20 final question again, Mr. President, through you
21 to Senator Maltese.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: One
23 question.
5817
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What
2 knowledge do you have that the New York State
3 Industrial Board of Appeals has any experience
4 or expertise in resolving issues related to
5 public safety in villages or towns throughout
6 New York State? What is the basis for their
7 knowledge that gives them the particular
8 expertise to be able to do that?
9 My understanding of the
10 Industrial Board of Appeals that it considers
11 wage disputes, prevailing wage disputes, things
12 under our New York State Labor Law. Are you
13 aware of anything else in New York State law
14 that gives the New York State Industrial Board
15 of Appeals jurisdiction over public safety?
16 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
17 I was hoping that Senator Dollinger would ask
18 that question.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I tried.
20 SENATOR MALTESE: I have before
21 me the Labor Law, section 21, and it cites the
22 powers and duties of the Commissioner and the
23 Industrial Labor Boards, and it provides that
5818
1 they shall provide a method of encouraging
2 employers and employees in their efforts to
3 reduce the number of safety and health hazards
4 arising -- safety; I stress the word "safety"
5 and health hazards arising from undesirable,
6 inappropriate or unnecessary working conditions
7 at the work place and of stimulating employers
8 and employees to instigate new, and to perfect
9 existing programs for providing safe and
10 healthful working conditions.
11 It seems to me, Mr. President,
12 that there couldn't be anything that would be
13 more conducive to violating a section that calls
14 for safety and health, overseeing -- the
15 possible overseeing of safety and health
16 hazards, and this board again presumably would
17 hear these types of petitions from across the
18 entire state and would have more expertise in
19 handling them.
20 As far as whether or not they
21 would know intimately the problems of villages
22 or towns, that would depend on -- on the
23 Governor's appointees to this board and those
5819
1 that -- those members of the board, those three
2 members of the board who would be subject to
3 Senate confirmation.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
5 Mr. President, on the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
7 bill, Senator Dollinger.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think
9 Senator Maltese's reaction -- response to my
10 question highlights the problem with this bill,
11 one of the problems with this bill. The section
12 that he read gives the Industrial Board of
13 Appeals jurisdiction over certain labor
14 relations issues that affect public health and
15 safety, for example, the state OSHA rules.
16 I think there are other areas in
17 which the New York State Board of Industrial
18 Appeals has jurisdiction, but we don't turn over
19 to the Industrial Board of Appeals the issues of
20 public safety. We've got a whole apparatus of
21 public safety. We've got a Department of
22 Criminal Justice. We've got all kinds of
23 experience sitting in agency buildings in this
5820
1 city to deal with criminal justice issues that
2 deal with public safety issues.
3 If there's a review that ought to
4 be planned, it ought to go there. It shouldn't
5 go to the Board of Industrial Appeals. We're
6 directing it to the wrong place, and I would
7 submit, Mr. President, that that's the over
8 simplification from which this proposal
9 suffers.
10 I'd just give one quick example.
11 You have a village, a little tiny village, that
12 has a police department. They're going to
13 reduce the number of people on the vehicles.
14 The mayor of the village runs on a campaign in
15 which he says I'm going to reduce the number of
16 people in the cars from two to one. He runs, he
17 wins a hundred to nothing, on that campaign
18 because the taxpayers conclude they don't want
19 to pay for that additional public safety.
20 Whatever benefit there may be to it, and I
21 agree, Senator Maltese, there may be some
22 benefit of having two people in a car or three
23 officers in a car. As Senator Leichter said,
5821
1 there may be an advantage to having five of them
2 in a car, but the public rises up and says,
3 unanimously a hundred to nothing, we don't want
4 to pay for that.
5 What this law would do is say,
6 Oh-oh that isn't your decision, sorry, public.
7 Even though you unanimously elected one person
8 who ran on that platform we're going to require
9 you, the town, the village, to spend and I
10 disagree with Senator Maltese, compare it to an
11 environmental impact statement, I think if you
12 look at the legislative history of environmental
13 impact statements, you will see that when we
14 originally embarked on that course of conduct,
15 we said, Oh, don't worry, environmental impact
16 statements won't be a big deal; you'll put a
17 couple pieces together; you'll describe how many
18 trees there are, and it will all be taken care
19 of. It won't be a big problem.
20 Instead, in this comprehensive
21 detailed study of public safety, I submit that
22 that is going to cost an awful lot of money to
23 the local communities, that it's constantly
5822
1 going to be appealed to the board, Industrial
2 Board of Appeals, because of the nature of the
3 labor dispute that gives rise to those kinds of
4 discussions.
5 We have a labor relations agency;
6 it's called the Public Employment Relations
7 Board. They can deal with all those problems.
8 This has been a violation of the Taylor Law.
9 Instead, this is going to put a huge cost on
10 every town, village and city that is desperately
11 trying to meet the public safety needs of its
12 communities and, at the same time, provide and
13 protect its police officers.
14 Both of those are laudable and
15 important public safety objectives, but we can't
16 tie the hands of local communities by giving to
17 the board -- the Industrial Board of Appeals the
18 right to decide whether they can reduce their
19 staff.
20 That's a decision, and I agree
21 with Senator Leichter, that should be made by
22 local officials who are elected by the people
23 and accountable to them and not made by the
5823
1 Industrial Board of Appeals, a group of
2 unelected commissioners that, from my community,
3 will be 225 miles away.
4 I submit that this bill stems
5 from a -- from a very, very simplified view of
6 what will become a complicated, time-consuming,
7 onerous mandate on all of our villages and all
8 of our towns, and our cities as well.
9 I submit that this legislation,
10 and I understand the spirit from which it
11 arises, will create a terrible unfunded mandate,
12 a terribly oppressive mandate to our local
13 communities that are trying to deal with the
14 difficult problem of providing cost-effective
15 public safety. Pass this bill, and you're
16 taking away the local control that I've heard
17 from the other side of the aisle that you so
18 desperately want to preserve.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Galiber.
21 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator
22 Maltese, will you yield for a question?
23 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
5824
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Maltese, would you yield to a question?
3 SENATOR GALIBER: Not quite a
4 question; I would just like to make a
5 statement.
6 I find myself in a brand new
7 district, a little section of Westchester
8 County. I have a lot of colleagues on your side
9 who have parts of Westchester County, but the
10 particular area, after they finished cutting me
11 up in reapportionment, is called Mount Vernon.
12 Now, Mount Vernon is a nice calm
13 little city, poor city, because they've done
14 everything right. At the present time we are
15 desperately, along with Senator Velella, with a
16 few others, trying to find some way to get money
17 back into Westchester.
18 Mandates, I'm sure, most of the
19 time we are in agreement. We have to do
20 something about mandating costs on the local
21 government. But here's a situation, and Senator
22 Guy Velella and I have been trying to do
23 something about it.
5825
1 Would you be willing to fight -
2 authorize the utility tax in Mount Vernon so
3 that you pay for some of this? Would you be
4 willing to take the monies that they have
5 contracted they have with the police officers
6 now and campaign for it? Would you tell the
7 police officers to do away with the increases
8 and make this study available?
9 And the answer probably is, no,
10 to the latter category, and I merely point this
11 out to you, Senator, because I disagree with the
12 bill, but the localities especially, all of
13 them, are going to be hit, but the small
14 localities are going to be hit the hardest. A
15 million dollars? A million, two million perhaps
16 is peppercorns, if we had the opportunity to
17 look; maybe a member item on your side of the
18 aisle. It's a lot of money for these small
19 hamlets. They cannot afford this even if it was
20 a good piece of legislation. They cannot afford
21 it.
22 The question is -- I'll get to
23 the question -- is how do you account, what can
5826
1 we possibly do? How, under your legislation,
2 even if it passes, and I'm sure it's only a
3 one-house bill, the fact of how in good
4 conscience these small little villages, the
5 small cities, the impact that it's going to be
6 -- going to have on them, and you said yourself
7 that you would be willing to put into your
8 legislation, I believe, means to finance this
9 where the small towns, villages, cities, if you
10 will, cannot afford it.
11 More importantly, would you be
12 interested or concerned enough or to the point
13 where you would take the utility tax to these
14 small cities or hamlets, the Medicaid -
15 mandated Medicaid relief that we talk about at
16 least for that area which is opposed by some,
17 would you be willing in conjunction with this
18 piece of legislation, to support those other
19 means in which to fund this program which is not
20 a good bill in the first place, but it's
21 interesting just to find out. What is your
22 attitude about those small hamlets and cities
23 that cannot afford this at all, even if it were
5827
1 to pass?
2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
3 I fully appreciate that my most articulate
4 colleague is asking the question more in a
5 rhetorical sense, but I frequently have voted
6 for and as a matter of fact, in many, many
7 instances, voted for the means for the
8 localities, since I believe in local government,
9 to finance expenditures that they voted to
10 enact, and since I've been in this house and in
11 this chamber have voted for a great deal more
12 taxes than I ever believed I would and ever
13 thought I would, and a great deal more than I
14 like to do.
15 At the same time, I feel that we
16 have an obligation to, when we took the oath as
17 Senators, we are not simply micromanaging the
18 affairs of a police department whether it's in
19 Mount Vernon or whether it's in the city of New
20 York. I do -- I strongly disagree with my
21 colleague, Senator Leichter, who talks about our
22 intrusion into the affairs of the city of New
23 York. He specifically alluded to the city of
5828
1 New York, which he represents and I represent.
2 Last I saw, I not only represent the city of New
3 York, but I reside there and my family resides
4 there.
5 I believe that we have not only
6 the right but the obligation to attempt to
7 protect the lives of our police officers when
8 they are doing their sworn duty.
9 A question was -- was just -- was
10 asked as to whether -- who supports this bill.
11 The support we have, and we did not seek it but
12 this is the support of the people who brought
13 this circumstance to our attention, was the
14 Police Benevolent Association, the Sergeants'
15 Benevolent Association, the Lieutenants'
16 Benevolent Association, and many of their
17 representatives.
18 Now, when I speak about trying to
19 protect the lives of individual police officers
20 in cars, I don't superimpose my own judgment. I
21 don't superimpose my own knowledge or wisdom as
22 far as the necessity for these police officers.
23 I am listening, I am hearing the plea of the
5829
1 representatives, the duly elected representa
2 tives of those selfsame police officers who are
3 saying to me, perhaps those officials who are in
4 charge of government, perhaps those officials
5 who are leading government would put fiscal
6 considerations ahead of the lives of these same
7 police officers.
8 And, Mr. President, I don't know
9 that our good mayor's opinion, and a Mayor that
10 I respect, or our police commissioner, Ray
11 Kelly's opinion is any better than mine.
12 Certainly, Ray Kelly's opinion I would respect,
13 but a police commissioner, as we've seen in the
14 recent history of New York City, is not always
15 free to act non-politically. I don't know that
16 I would put the mayor's opinion or value the
17 mayor's opinion any more than I would put
18 perhaps our present President's opinion as far
19 as commanding a military unit in the field or
20 any military unit.
21 So I don't know that -- and we
22 have to say that we are waging a war, a war on
23 crime. We just previously spoke about all these
5830
1 police officers gunned down as they were trying
2 to do their duty. So what I'm saying is that,
3 at the least, I am arguing on a platform that is
4 being sustained and upheld by police officers
5 who told me that it is their learned opinion
6 this was necessary, and I am willing to accede
7 to their opinions before I accede to the
8 opinions of anybody in this house, no matter
9 what their previous service was.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
11 Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Would
13 Senator Maltese yield to a question?
14 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you've
16 been very gracious in yielding and while I'm not
17 trying to take advantage, but first of all,
18 Senator, have you held any hearings on this
19 bill?
20 SENATOR MALTESE: No.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you said
22 you have support from the PBA, et cetera. Is
23 that the New York City or does it go past the
5831
1 New York City?
2 SENATOR MALTESE: The New York
3 City.
4 SENATOR GOLD: New York City, and
5 the last question I have is, you read some
6 information earlier, you said it came from the
7 FBI, about incidents where people, I guess, were
8 shot or injured or killed in one-person
9 situations, was that?
10 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator, my
12 impression from hearing that was the officers
13 perhaps weren't trained properly. In other
14 words, you were giving the information such as
15 the officer didn't do this, the officer wasn't
16 alert, the officer didn't get his gun out,
17 didn't do this, didn't call for back-up.
18 Didn't you make a perfect
19 argument, Senator Maltese, that you basically
20 have a training issue here, not a one-person or
21 two-person in a car, but whether or not people
22 are being trained, properly so; therefore, if
23 the City were to go to one person in a car,
5832
1 let's say, if the training program was proper,
2 they hopefully would not have officers who would
3 be part of your statistics.
4 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
5 I -- the point I was hoping to make is, first of
6 all, I feel that the figures do stand for
7 themselves and stand on their own feet vis-a-vis
8 the numbers. Certainly we can surmise from the
9 -- the disproportionate number of the -- for
10 instance, the 237 in the one-officer vehicles as
11 opposed to the 94 in the two-officer vehicle.
12 The point I attempted to make as
13 to the training, quite correctly, what Senator
14 Gold said was buttressed by FBI investigations.
15 What they were attempting to do is save the
16 lives of officers in future circumstances. But
17 we are all subject to human facility. These
18 police officers, when I referred to the fact
19 that they were described by their friends and
20 comrades and relatives as trusting individuals,
21 as people now under the new guidelines well
22 suited for police work, people who would try to
23 respond in a friendly manner rather than an
5833
1 aggressive or threatening manner, and my point
2 was that these people are human beings and when
3 we put one person alone in a police car, he is
4 not going to be as well protected and he may
5 make these very mistakes that the FBI report
6 pointed out, and he would be less subject to
7 making those mistakes if he had a companion, he
8 or she had a companion with them or if they had
9 the security of the training program that
10 Senator Gold spoke of.
11 But we are not at this point in
12 time speaking about a training program. We're
13 trying to speak about providing additional
14 personnel in the police cars. If Senator Gold
15 wants to put in a bill that would provide
16 additional training with the funds provided for
17 the police, these police officers in
18 municipalities, towns and villages, I'd be glad
19 to share in that legislation with him.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator
5834
1 Maltese yield to a question? But first of all I
2 find it fascinating that you say I should put in
3 a bill for better training and provide the funds
4 when you want to put in the program initially
5 and don't want to fund it. I mean, come on,
6 Senator.
7 But first of all, Senator, I have
8 a question, but I want to point out you're
9 saying that we have police officers today who
10 are friendlier and the new kind of police
11 officer requires back-up because they're
12 friendlier.
13 Senator, isn't there a difference
14 between a police officer being careful, the word
15 "careful" versus whether he's courteous or
16 rude? I would hope that there are no rude police
17 officers, but even if they are, I hope they're
18 careful. The two words don't -- have different
19 meanings. So, Senator, the fact that we hope
20 that police officers today are not abrasive and
21 not overwhelming doesn't mean they shouldn't be
22 careful.
23 But my question, Senator, is the
5835
1 following: In terms of the -- of the FBI study,
2 how many police vehicles are there that are
3 operated by two police officers, versus the
4 number that are operated by one officer?
5 SENATOR MALTESE: I don't have
6 that information, and it wasn't in the portion
7 of the study that was given to us.
8 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank
9 you. Mr. President, on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
11 bill, Senator Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
13 President. To start at the end there, the
14 figures given by Senator Maltese are really
15 valueless. They are valueless. If you have in a
16 room 90 women and 10 men, it is more likely that
17 something happened as regards the women than
18 men. That's the numbers.
19 The fact that there were more
20 police officers involved in incidents in
21 one-driver cars than two means nothing unless
22 you know what the relative percentages are. If
23 the norm in America is for officers to be one to
5836
1 a vehicle, then by percentages there are going
2 to be more incidents for officers in the one
3 vehicle, so the only way Senator Maltese can
4 make an argument that one is safer or not safer
5 than the other is if we know that the incidents
6 are even to begin with.
7 But, Senator Maltese, I asked you
8 if you held a hearing. Now, the other day I was
9 very proud to stand up and support Senator
10 Velella when he wanted to aid in getting 9
11 millimeter or semi-automatic weapons into the
12 hands of police officers in the city of New York
13 and that bill passed overwhelmingly. But you
14 may recall, I said at that time, Senator
15 Maltese, that when the issue came up, I held a
16 hearing.
17 Now, that wasn't a hearing for
18 show. I was asked to hold that hearing by
19 Milton Mollen, who worked for the mayor at the
20 time, and he said to me, "Manny, if you hold a
21 hearing the City will present to you its
22 arguments and you will understand them." I held
23 the hearing. The City came; they gave their
5837
1 arguments. The PBA came, gave their arguments
2 and then, with both sides of the coin, Senator
3 Maltese, I came to a decision and I supported
4 Senator Velella.
5 You have come to a conclusion
6 listening to the plaintiff's case and saying at
7 the end of the plaintiff's case, I render
8 judgment without giving the defendant a chance
9 to get into the courtroom. The City's case was
10 not presented at any hearing, was not presented
11 to you because you didn't give that equal
12 opportunity.
13 This bill, Senator Stachowski,
14 just so you understand, is a statewide bill
15 because, if it wasn't, he'd need a home rule
16 message and I assume he can't get a home rule
17 message, so you have to make it a statewide
18 bill. It is only an issue, I gather, for
19 Senator Maltese with the PBA in New York City.
20 And lastly, Senator Maltese, I
21 would like to point out something that you
22 already know because I happen to respect your
23 mind, and I know you are a bright gentleman.
5838
1 You want to protect police officers in the city
2 of New York. Walk down the hall and tell
3 Senator Marino that Senator Padavan, Senator
4 Oppenheimer and many others have a bill that
5 would get these assault weapons off the
6 streets. Now you're doing something. Now
7 you're doing something.
8 If you have one or two police
9 officers in a car and they drive up and get
10 pummeled by Tek-9s and other semi-automatic
11 weapons, so under your bill you'll have two, God
12 forbid, dead officers instead of one, God
13 forbid, dead officer. I mean that's what you're
14 doing.
15 I haven't met any policemen in
16 the city of New York, Senator, that say, Senator
17 Maltese, give us two people in a car and also
18 keep us the assault weapons out there because
19 they're good for the City. That's hogwash and,
20 while I am proud to be a sponsor of Senator
21 Oppenheimere's bill -- if it's destined to be a
22 Padavan bill, then I congratulate Senator
23 Padavan -- let's get it out. That will do
5839
1 something.
2 And in closing, I said that's the
3 last, I got to use a different word. In closing
4 I'll point out one other thing. The politics of
5 spending the taxpayers' money is a fascinating,
6 fascinating subject. God forbid you have a
7 child, as happened in New Jersey, who falls into
8 a little swamp hole in a playground. It doesn't
9 matter how many millions of dollars go into that
10 rescue effort. It doesn't matter. Why doesn't
11 it matter? Because the television is there, the
12 press is there. It becomes a national event.
13 Matter of fact, in that movie RADIO DAYS, they
14 did a take-off on that with one little child,
15 but now, forget the one child on television,
16 where everybody is rooting for the child and you
17 get into more obtuse situations and we go crazy
18 with money in a different direction.
19 Senator, this bill, if you want
20 to do it, requires money, that's all. It
21 requires money, and just to say we're going to
22 throw -- we'll find the money, there will be
23 money, maybe we'll see the money; I mean we got
5840
1 to do it. That's all, and if we're not putting
2 up the money, if we're not doing other things, I
3 don't think we should play that game with the
4 PBA or with anybody else. We just shouldn't do
5 it.
6 There are a lot of issues that
7 are involved with the police department and with
8 the mayor. I happy to respect the New York City
9 PBA very much, and they've been -- been
10 respectful towards me. They are a political
11 unit; we all know that. I understand there were
12 ads in some of the papers today blasting the
13 mayor. They obviously are a political unit.
14 Every union is.
15 But, Senator, this is just not a
16 right way to go, and I don't even think it's
17 good politics for your side of the aisle. I
18 don't know when the day is going to come, some
19 day it will come, when your constituents as well
20 as mine -- I'm talking to my upstate colleagues
21 -- are really going to start to read what
22 happens up here and who votes on what.
23 I think the philosophy of the
5841
1 Republican Party is, if a tree falls in a forest
2 does it make noise? Nobody knows, and you hope
3 that nobody will ever report what you do up here
4 so you can do whatever you want. But in those
5 little towns and hamlets, I mean one of them, if
6 this was to become a law or even if it doesn't,
7 somebody is going to read that some of you
8 gentlemen decide that this is something that
9 could happen and affect them, and they're going
10 to wake up.
11 It is a statewide bill, and it is
12 not only terrible for the city of New York; it
13 is awful for upstate New York.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Stachowski.
16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Just on the
17 bill. When I first saw it, I really didn't have
18 a problem with it, considering it was, I
19 thought, a New York City bill put out by a New
20 York City person, even though it was Rules. I
21 knew when Senator Maltese stood up that he was
22 representing the people that he represented in
23 the city of New York, but when I became aware
5842
1 that it is a statewide bill, I have a big
2 problem with it in that I don't know that all
3 the towns and villages and cities that may be
4 looking at police reorganization and may get
5 along very well with their police officers and
6 their municipal government officials and have
7 worked all this through and negotiated any kind
8 of change out, that suddenly they're in the
9 middle of this process maybe currently, and
10 since this bill takes effect immediately and if
11 it were to pass both houses and get signed by
12 the Governor who often talks about proposals
13 that will do what the people want with local
14 governments, that suddenly these towns, villages
15 and other cities than the city of New York would
16 become a victim of this legislation, have to go
17 through a study that we don't have any idea what
18 it costs, but I'm sure it's not free, and then
19 they have to start -- keep continuing to have
20 two-men police cars even if their village is
21 very small, and they decided it's not safe
22 enough to do this and maybe they have a dual
23 coverage of the local sheriff's department also,
5843
1 to help support the one-car units, and that all
2 this does is incur an expense that their
3 taxpayers can't afford and this study that we
4 don't know what it costs as to that problem and
5 as a result people lose their jobs or programs
6 that they need go out of effect.
7 For that reason, I can't support
8 this bill, and basically it's nothing more than
9 another unfunded mandate. Earlier this year we
10 passed a bill saying we're not going to do any
11 unfunded mandates. We've done a -- I think a
12 second concurrent resolution saying we're not
13 going to do any unfunded mandates, and that only
14 counts when we're talking about somebody else's
15 program here.
16 Senator Maltese can get up and
17 say, "I don't know what this costs and if it
18 does cost money, well, then next year I'll put
19 the money in," or we'll get the money for him
20 and we'll give him the money. Well, the fact is
21 by Constitution, you can't do that. If the
22 study is done and the expense is incurred, you
23 can't give a community a gift. Give them the
5844
1 money for a study they already did? That's a
2 gift. We can't do that, and it sounds great but
3 you can't do it.
4 And I can remember the days when
5 I first got to the Senate or maybe I'm even
6 thinking back to when I was in the county
7 legislature, and I used to get mail from the
8 chairman of the Conservative Party Serph'
9 Maltese, Don't be for unfunded mandates. Well,
10 when he was chairman of the Conservative Party,
11 Serph' Maltese was not for unfunded mandates.
12 Guess that doesn't matter any more.
13 I'm not only going to oppose the
14 bill; I'm going to ask for a slow roll call.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
16 Oppenheimer.
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh. Thank
18 you, Mr. President.
19 My colleague just now said it's
20 an unfunded mandate. It's more than an unfunded
21 mandate, an unfunded mandate. It's -- it's just
22 ridiculous. I mean I have to speak to you as a
23 mayor of many years of a small community.
5845
1 If you're talking about
2 decreasing the number of police officers
3 assigned to a patrol car, if there's a safety
4 risk, I mean our patrol cars in my community
5 when I was there, we had 50-some police
6 officers, they all rode singly. If we were to
7 decrease, it would be a car without an officer
8 and that doesn't seem too likely. It just is
9 not possible in a small community. Every single
10 person that is there is essential and needed and
11 for the most part we carry only one -- one
12 police patrolman to every car and there's no way
13 that we could increase it. There's no way we
14 could fund a study.
15 I mean the whole thing makes
16 absolutely no sense. I mean you have to be at
17 the local level just to know how nonsensical
18 this is. I'm voting no.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, I already commented on the text of
23 the bill.
5846
1 One of the things that Senator
2 Maltese said after he spoke after me, really
3 drove home the message and, Senator, I couldn't
4 agree with you more. We sort of moved down the
5 same logic and then we depart.
6 I agree with you that I didn't
7 run for this office to make a decision about
8 what goes on in the village of East Rochester,
9 which is in my colleague, Senator Jones'
10 district. I don't represent any villages. I
11 represent two towns and a major city, but I
12 wasn't elected to make that judgment about what
13 goes on in a small village, and I -- I don't
14 think you were either. I don't think anyone is
15 in this chamber.
16 But we have a very simple
17 choice. We can either leave that decision to
18 local officials in those villages who were
19 elected to make that choice or we can do what
20 your bill suggests, which is take it out of the
21 elected officials' hands and give it to a bunch
22 of bureaucrats who are called the Industrial
23 Board of Appeals.
5847
1 We can take the most vital thing
2 that happens in a local community, that is
3 public safety, I agree with you it's the most
4 vital thing that happens, and we can take that
5 and turn it to a group of five or seven
6 nameless, faceless bureaucrats that live in -
7 in Albany and that work out of Albany.
8 Whatever happened to the concept
9 of home rule? This isn't home rule. This is
10 rule by the IBA. This isn't rule by elected
11 officials. This is rule by bureaucrats,
12 unelected officials. This proposal takes the
13 most precious decision at the local level,
14 public safety, and transforms it into something
15 that's the subject of a detailed comprehensive
16 study, reviewed by the Industrial Board of
17 Appeals who makes a final and binding decision
18 on the local community where, even if the local
19 community says it's all we can afford, the
20 Industrial Board of Appeals is going to say,
21 Aah, it isn't true you can't afford it. Go out,
22 tax your people more to pay for it.
23 If it isn't through the
5848
1 Industrial Board of Appeals, where will they go?
2 They'll go to the courts. We might as well turn
3 the public safety over to the bureaucrats or -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5 Maltese.
6 SENATOR MALTESE: Excuse me,
7 Senator Dollinger.
8 Mr. President, may I lay the bill
9 aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 Secretary will read. Senator
13 Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
15 can we call up Calendar 808 which was laid
16 aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
18 Secretary will read Calendar 808.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 808, by Senator Cook, an act to amend the
21 Education Law.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
5849
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
12 5900, an act to amend the Environmental
13 Conservation -
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:
15 Explanation.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1263, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
20 5929.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for
22 the day.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
5850
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1269, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
4 3211-A, Administrative Code of the city of New
5 York.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's
7 a home rule message here at the desk. You can
8 read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1274, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
19 3811-A, State Administrative Procedure Act.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
21 the last section.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
5851
1 Explanation. Senator Wright.
2 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 The bill provides amendments to
5 the State Administrative Procedure Act to
6 require that, when a model plan is called for in
7 terms of achieving compliance efforts, that that
8 model plan be developed by the agency and be
9 published for the use of those individuals being
10 required to comply.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -
12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Certainly,
13 Senator. I look forward to these exchanges.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have no
15 objection.
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you,
17 Senator.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5852
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
6 bill is passed.
7 Senator Goodman.
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Oh, no.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1275, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number
11 4492-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
14 Explanation has been asked for. Senator Tully.
15 A year older today.
16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 This bill changes the advisory
19 review panel created by this Legislature in
20 Chapter 1 of 1993 which oversees the activities
21 of Empire Blue Cross and Blue Shield to a
22 special review board and gives it authority and
23 power to approve all contracts other than policy
5853
1 contracts as well as to review and ensure the
2 accuracy of premium rate increase applications
3 submitted by the corporation to the Department.
4 This bill, in actuality, is
5 something that was previously discussed by this
6 house with the other house and the Governor in
7 1993. This bill was originally proposed with
8 these powers in it at that time, and these
9 powers were rejected at that time by the
10 Governor and by the Assembly, and I think the
11 record is clear that had this power been given
12 at that time that it was requested, many of the
13 things which have taken place might not have
14 otherwise ensued.
15 We have a tremendous
16 responsibility to the people that we represent,
17 particularly to the 8 million subscribers of
18 this company which is the largest company of its
19 type in the United States. This type of
20 oversight is without a doubt -
21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
22 SENATOR TULLY: -- absolutely
23 necessary.
5854
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Gold, why do you rise?
3 SENATOR GOLD: I hate to
4 interrupt, but we've just passed Senator
5 Padavan's bill, I think it's 1269, and I just
6 want to make sure it doesn't leave the house
7 quite yet. There was a question that was just
8 raised and a phone call I had and, if we could
9 just hold that, please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Has it
11 left?
12 SENATOR GOLD: No, no.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, it
14 was just on its way out the door.
15 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank
16 you. So please hold.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
18 Tully, you have the floor.
19 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 The company in question, Empire
22 Blue Cross and Blue Shield, has reported to this
23 Legislature losses of $250 million in the last
5855
1 two years, at the same time they received rate
2 increases from Superintendent Curiale, the
3 regulator, and the Insurance Department, four
4 times.
5 This Legislature relied upon
6 information which was presented to them by that
7 company in creating and enacting a law on
8 community rating and open enrollment.
9 Mr. President, I submit that this
10 is a law whose time has come. Its time had come
11 earlier in January. It must be enacted as
12 quickly as possible. Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
14 Solomon.
15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
16 I'm glad, Senator Tully, you ended on that note,
17 but before I ask you a question regarding that
18 comment, I'd just like to ask you, part of this
19 bill -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
21 Tully, would you yield to a question?
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Would you
23 yield, please, Senator?
5856
1 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he
4 will yield to your question.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, this
6 bill has no limits on contracts that must be
7 submitted to the board, no minimum limits, am I
8 correct?
9 SENATOR TULLY: That is correct,
10 Mr. President. The only exclusion on contracts
11 is premium contracts, the policy contract.
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. So Senator
13 Tully, if you will yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think
15 he will.
16 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, Senator, if
17 Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield wants to purchase
18 a thousand dollars worth of Number 2 pencils
19 then that contract would have to go to this
20 board?
21 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President,
22 all contracts, whether they be for a pencil, a
23 thousand dollars worth of pencils or any other
5857
1 type of contract other than policy contracts, if
2 the board seeks and wishes to review them are
3 subject to the review of Empire under this
4 legislation, that's correct, and maybe if they
5 had that type of authority in the past, we
6 wouldn't have been slickered as we were.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
8 that -- Senator, I wasn't slickered. I voted
9 against this bill, by the way -
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
11 Tully.
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- on community
13 rating, because I thought there was something
14 wrong with the Blues, but what I'm concerned
15 with is by having every contract, we have -
16 we've had instances, I believe there are
17 instances of both review and oversight before
18 where you set a minimum amount of dollars.
19 Wouldn't it be wiser in terms of the number of
20 dollars that come out of Blue Cross -- Empire
21 Blue Cross/Blue Shield, since it's literally
22 hundreds of millions, actually probably billions
23 of dollars every year, to set a minimum on the
5858
1 contracts, say contracts under $500,000 so they
2 can at least deal with some day-to-day purchases
3 whether it be, as I say, pencils or some paper
4 cups?
5 I think this might have been
6 drafted incorrectly.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
8 Tully.
9 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I
10 appreciate the concern exhibited by Senator
11 Solomon, but I'm sure even he knows that things
12 of that nature many times are not the subject of
13 contracts. I know in this Legislature, when we
14 need pencils, perhaps there's a request for
15 proposals, they're not really in the nature of
16 contract form, and many times people might send
17 someone, in the case of Empire Blue Cross/Blue
18 Shield out to the office store to pick up a
19 couple of dozen boxes of pencils.
20 If those are the things he is
21 concerned with, I don't think really from a
22 practical standpoint that the board would
23 concern themselves with it, but I would be
5859
1 really, really upset if we attempted to put a
2 dollar figure on something that we couldn't
3 watch based on the track record of this
4 company.
5 We can always go the other way,
6 if we determine that it's too stringent and if
7 we determine, in our wisdom, that we are
8 restricting commerce and restricting development
9 of this company and an opportunity to do what's
10 right for people it represents, we can always
11 amend it. But right now, I think strict, strict
12 measures are called for.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if you
14 will continue to yield. How many -- how many
15 contracts does Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield
16 enter into not including insurance contracts
17 with the insureds?
18 SENATOR TULLY: There is no -
19 absolutely no way that I would have of knowing
20 that, which is one of the reasons we want to
21 give the authority to the board to determine it,
22 but obviously, you know, Senator, that it would
23 include certain actuarial contracts which are
5860
1 most significant, like Deloitte-Touche, that
2 type of contract that we know has existed. It
3 would include employment contracts such as the
4 one that was entered into with the former CEO,
5 Mr. Cardone, where he received $600,000 in
6 compensation, an increase of $100,000 in one
7 year, at the time they were asking for enormous
8 rate increases. It would include computer
9 contracts, Mr. President, which we know now are
10 the subject of inquiry by a number of agencies.
11 This should have been the law,
12 Mr. President. The Governor and the Assembly
13 should have agreed to it and Superintendent
14 Curiale knew or should have known about many of
15 the things that are now coming out in the paper,
16 and it's a disgrace.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator -
18 Senator, if you will yield to two more
19 questions.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I feel
21 he will.
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: How much money
23 did we appropriate for this board, the advisory
5861
1 committee which will become a board?
2 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President,
3 the people who serve on the board we are
4 fortunate to have pro bono. There is $150,000
5 appropriated for such staff as they will find
6 necessary.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Senator,
8 if you will yield to just one last question. I
9 notice you were obviously upset at the
10 revelations of Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield, as
11 we all were, and I always took some of the
12 figures that they gave me as a grain of salt
13 because they lost $100 million on an HMO in five
14 years which I thought was pretty incredible, and
15 their response had been that they were losing
16 less money, when they were questioned about it.
17 That's one of the reasons I voted
18 against community rating. Senator, do you feel
19 at this point in the structure within the next
20 month, that we should help the Blues or bail
21 them out in any other way or means at this point
22 in time, get them some additional funds?
23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I
5862
1 think Senator Solomon knows full well that the
2 Legislature -- very much, I doubt that we'll
3 hear anything in the next month, but the
4 Legislature will no doubt be faced with a rate
5 increase request, not the Legislature but the
6 Superintendent of Insurance will be consulted
7 and requested to do something with respect to
8 helping Blue Cross/Blue Shield out.
9 It's a very, very difficult
10 situation because I have not yet heard from
11 Senator Solomon as to what we in the Legislature
12 should do or what the Governor should do or what
13 the Superintendent should do if Empire Blue
14 Cross and Blue Shield were to fall apart, if it
15 were to fold, if it were to disappear, who would
16 then insure these 8 million people?
17 Only this week, the head of the
18 AFL-CIO came to my office. Two and a half
19 million of his people are insured by Blue Cross
20 and Blue Shield and he asked me, is there any
21 difficulty, is there anything we should be
22 worried about, because he's reading the
23 newspaper too. There are many, many people out
5863
1 there who are fearful that they will have no
2 health insurance.
3 The issue then resolves itself
4 into one as to whether or not there has been
5 sufficient oversight; has there been sufficient
6 regulation? And I remember, Senator Solomon,
7 when he debated, and I for one wouldn't say for
8 the world that maybe there was an issue and
9 position between people who felt on the one hand
10 that Empire Blue Cross and Blue Shield needed
11 something and commercial insurers on the other
12 hand who had their spokesmen in this house felt
13 that maybe they shouldn't get anything because
14 there's always been an opposition between the
15 two, but I think the record of what was said at
16 the time that bill was debated will speak for
17 itself, as all of Senator Solomon's comments at
18 the time -- at that time will speak for
19 themselves.
20 But I believe now we're dealing
21 with something separate and apart from past
22 history, and we're dealing with something
23 separate and apart from what might be a rate
5864
1 increase. We're saying now that that which we
2 had in place was insufficient to preclude the
3 occurrences that have happened. We're talking
4 about hundreds of millions of dollars. We're
5 talking about investigations, not only by the U.
6 S. Attorney's office, by the Manhattan district
7 attorney's office, by other agencies who have
8 been contacted, who have exhibited interest in
9 not only the civil end of this, but in the
10 criminal end.
11 The story is yet to unfold. It's
12 a difficult postulate at least, but we have to
13 do something as quickly as possible. We should
14 have done it in January, but we need to do it
15 now.
16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. On
17 the bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
19 bill, Senator Solomon.
20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Tully,
21 I think we should have did something a year ago
22 when we passed the community rating. In view of
23 that, in January we came in with another bail
5865
1 out which I'm glad you have this bill. Those of
2 you in this house should be aware Empire Blue
3 Cross/Blue Shield was against this because it
4 did include this advisory board because they
5 considered it too much oversight.
6 But what I'm concerned about is
7 we have a piece of legislation here which should
8 have looked at some numbers in terms of setting
9 some minimum standards of contracts to review.
10 I don't -- I believe Empire Blue Cross/Blue
11 Shield probably has large numbers of contracts
12 that deal with purchases of paper and supplies,
13 et cetera, that may not have to be reviewed
14 because they probably take that on bid, probably
15 contractual relationships in regard to that or
16 can be determined to be contracts.
17 What I'm concerned about is you
18 have a bill here which, in fact, could literally
19 cause the opposite effect in overburdening this
20 board by not letting it focus on the major
21 contracts that they have to look at, but every
22 piece of paper that comes across, and I believe
23 that they're going to be understaffed in terms
5866
1 of the budget that's been allocated to them to
2 adhere to this bill.
3 The concept is correct. We
4 should have had this board of oversight a long
5 time ago. There are a lot of problems with the
6 Blues. Those problems have been evidenced over
7 the years, and fortunately, I guess we should
8 all thank the New York Times for revealing a lot
9 of the problems and it turned a lot of people
10 around, and they realized that sometimes when
11 you have a group that's supposedly
12 not-for-profit, and they come before this
13 chamber and the Legislature, and they say
14 certain things maybe you should examine what
15 those people are saying, especially when they
16 mount multi-million dollar lobbying efforts and
17 campaigns to all our constituents.
18 But again, this bill, I believe,
19 goes in the right direction but I'm afraid that
20 it could literally be overburdened by its own
21 language by overloading the system, by having
22 them required to review each and every contract
23 that comes before them with the small amount of
5867
1 staffing that they currently have.
2 I should, in fact, add that it's
3 a multi-billion dollar corporation and they're
4 going to have less staff than many of the
5 legislators in this house currently have, and
6 that's where I think the problems are going to
7 be.
8 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
10 Tully.
11 SENATOR TULLY: Again, when this
12 bill was originally proposed and we did debate
13 it on the floor, and I remember particularly a
14 colloquy between myself and my colleague,
15 Senator Leichter, I indicated that the powers
16 which we proposed at that time which were not
17 included in the bill but which are proposed now
18 were exactly the same powers that were put into
19 place by this Legislature in 1975 when we
20 created the Emergency Financial Control Board to
21 bring the city of New York out of bankruptcy,
22 and that same faith that dealt with the same
23 type contracts resulted in the City coming out
5868
1 of bankruptcy and back into the bond market, and
2 I submit that what worked for New York City will
3 work for this state in this case.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last
5 section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1289, substituted earlier today, by member of
16 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number
17 6838, State Administrative Procedure Act.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
21 Wright.
22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
23 this bill incorporates current informal
5869
1 procedures being utilized by the Office of
2 Business and Regulatory Assistance and it
3 incorporates it in statute to give it statutory
4 authority.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last
6 section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays
13 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1291, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5825,
18 an act in relation to allocation and utilization
19 of certain monies.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
21 Gold. Last -- last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5870
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1292, by Senator Seward.
9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:
10 Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:
12 Explanation requested. Senator Seward.
13 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
14 President.
15 This legislation would allow
16 artists' materials manufacturers to apply a
17 brush stroke of paint to their packages so as to
18 display the true color of the paint that's
19 within the package.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: As I
21 understand this bill, Senator Seward -- I
22 sympathize with what you're trying to do and
23 were I to have a company in -- in my district, a
5871
1 major corporation that needed assistance, I also
2 would try and do what I could to help that
3 company, but I really have to object to this
4 bill. This does something that I don't think we
5 want to set a precedent on. I think the company
6 that's requesting this is named Golden Artist?
7 If Senator will yield? It is Golden Artist.
8 O.K.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
10 Seward, will you yield?
11 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, that's a -
12 the artist materials manufacturer that I happen
13 to be familiar with that is in a bind because of
14 the need for relief.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I
16 understand that, and I do empathize. However,
17 I've got -- there really is a major problem
18 here. Golden Artist wanted an exemption from
19 the Hazardous Packaging Act. The DEC has
20 refused to give them this exemption. This
21 legislation was introduced in order to override
22 the DEC's refusal to give the exemption.
23 It really sets a terrible
5872
1 precedent for other companies to come in and ask
2 for special -- special attention, special
3 exception to our statute. The Hazardous
4 Packaging Act is a national standard which is
5 being enforced by 13 other states.
6 When this Legislature passed the
7 Hazardous Packaging Act in '91 -- 1991, it was
8 to be effective the following year in '92, we
9 were doing it to protect consumers from toxic
10 labels and to reduce toxins that end up in our
11 solid waste stream. Cadmium, which is the issue
12 we're dealing with today, cadmium, is one of the
13 most hazardous materials which can cause harmful
14 effects on the health of the general public, and
15 there is no justification to allow an exemption
16 for this hazardous material which would only
17 encourage other corporations to ask for
18 exemptions from hazardous materials, and I feel
19 we have to treat this very seriously, even
20 though we are, you know, concerned about
21 individual corporations.
22 This goes against our law; it
23 goes against the DEC's determination, and I
5873
1 think by statute, we should not be overriding
2 the DEC, that is simply trying to enforce our
3 laws, this law which we passed in 1991 and went
4 into effect last year.
5 So I would urge those who are
6 concerned about hazardous materials entering our
7 waste stream to certainly vote against this
8 bill.
9 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
11 Seward.
12 SENATOR SEWARD: Just a few
13 comments to close the discussion on this. I'm
14 familiar with the administrative hearing to
15 which Senator Oppenheimer refers, and it is true
16 that Golden Paints did go through that process,
17 and I -- I certainly supported the legislation
18 that passed a few years ago.
19 I think it's an important issue
20 and we do need to cut down the toxic materials
21 that are involved in packaging. But getting
22 back to this hearing procedure, Golden, in fact,
23 did go to that hearing to show that they had no
5874
1 practical alternative which is allowability,
2 waivers are allowable under the existing law
3 that we all voted for, and the problem is that
4 the DEC interpretation of the packaging
5 component as it relates to the cadmium was that
6 they only looked at the stroke of paint itself
7 that's on the outside packages, not the entire
8 package, and only that interpretation on the
9 part of DEC is what threw this company out in
10 terms of being granted relief under the existing
11 law.
12 What I'm attempting to do under
13 this legislation is to provide Environmental
14 Conservation with some further guidance in terms
15 of a very, very small portion of a market for a
16 very specific purpose, and that is to allow this
17 paint company to have, in fact, truth in
18 advertising by showing on the outside of the
19 package the true color of the paint inside.
20 This is very, very important,
21 particularly to artists. This company markets
22 to well known artists all over the world, and
23 the color, the precise color, is an important
5875
1 part of their unique marketing and, for that
2 reason only, I'm moving the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last
4 section.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
7 Gold.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Seward,
9 would you yield to a question?
10 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
12 would yield.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, as has
14 been noted on other occasions, the Legislature
15 in New York operates a little differently than
16 the Congress. In Congress, they will have the
17 Environmental Act of 1993, and it will have 50
18 different sections in it, so they may pass 2- or
19 300 bills a year. We pass thousands.
20 Senator, the point I'm trying to
21 get at, it's one thing to break up the areas of
22 concern, and that I understand. It's another
23 thing to take that final stretch, Mr.
5876
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
3 -- can we have some order in the house,
4 please.
5 SENATOR GOLD: It's another
6 thing, Senator Seward, to take a -- a different
7 kind of stretch where, for example, we are now
8 stretching. We don't have pension laws; we have
9 89 pension laws. Everybody gets their own
10 pension law and we stretch it in to some other
11 areas. Instead of having statewide bills in
12 some areas, every little town gets their own
13 bill for that one.
14 Now, Senator, we're being asked
15 to give individual exemptions where people can't
16 work it through a department, and I'm just
17 wondering at what point, Senator Seward, this
18 Legislature stops being a court of last resort
19 over the Court of Appeals of the state of New
20 York, over every single department? I mean it
21 just philosophically, when do we stop doing
22 that?
23 SENATOR SEWARD: We could -- is
5877
1 that a question?
2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I respect
3 you as a theologician, something like that.
4 Theologian.
5 SENATOR SEWARD: We could have a
6 great philosophical discussion on that, and in
7 fact, the -- I certainly would hope that many of
8 the regulatory relief bills that I know Senator
9 Wright is moving through this house would
10 ultimately some day down the road provide the
11 relief we're looking for. However, I -- looking
12 at a situation here today where current law does
13 allow for the exemption.
14 This -- this company is operating
15 within the law today in terms of the amount of
16 cadmium in the certain groups of paints that
17 they manufacture. However, the problem comes in
18 is in DEC's interpretation of the law that we
19 passed a few years ago, in fact looking at that
20 packaging component only, as I said, at that
21 stroke of paint versus the entire label which
22 describes the paint and what's in it and all of
23 those things that's the -- that's the thrust of
5878
1 the legislation.
2 We could be here and
3 philosophically discuss the matter 'til the end
4 of session. I think, however, it's important to
5 point out that this is a very, very small
6 change. I interpret it as being a measure which
7 gives DEC some additional guidance and direction
8 as they interpret this particular section of the
9 law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
11 will you yield to another question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Will you
13 yield to Senator Gold? Will you yield to another
14 question?
15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
17 will yield.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I ask you
19 a general question. I want to zero it in in a
20 little more. I understand that Senator Wright
21 and Assemblyman Seabrook have all these bills
22 and everything, but what I'm getting at,
23 Senator, is that aside from the fact that there
5879
1 are people who believe this should be a
2 full-time job and want this session to go on ad
3 infinitum, the fact of the matter is that we set
4 some generalized rules that we think are good
5 for people.
6 Now, in doing that, there is
7 always going to be -- now, we're not talking
8 about administrative agencies now. We're
9 talking about the Legislature. There's always
10 going to be a firm here or there along the way
11 that needs a little blip.
12 It's like reapportionment. You
13 know, you go along and you got a straight line
14 and all of a sudden, you got a little blip and
15 you wonder why and you say, I don't know, and
16 you find out somebody lives there who wants to
17 be in this district rather than another
18 district.
19 I've listened to Senator
20 Oppenheimer, and I just see enormous sense in
21 what she is saying, and I see enormous sense in
22 the concept that we shouldn't be making these
23 blips all over the place because one person or
5880
1 another doesn't fit in to what we have
2 determined is good policy, and I say, why are we
3 doing it? Why should we do it here in such a
4 dangerous area, as has been beautifully pointed
5 out by one of our great legislators from the
6 great county of Westchester?
7 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Senator,
8 many times the laws that are passed and have
9 been on the books a while need some further
10 refinement, and that's why we come back with
11 additional bills to provide that refinement.
12 I just would point out once
13 again, Mr. President, that the current law
14 allows a packaging component to contain cadmium
15 up to 250 parts per million by weight. Now,
16 Golden's packaging has a label with a brush
17 stroke of the pigment.
18 Now, this label does meet the
19 requirements that are in the law today.
20 However, DEC has interpreted the packaging
21 component to be the brush stroke only and not
22 the entire label. That is a situation which
23 leads me to introduce a bill to provide
5881
1 Environmental Conservation with some additional
2 guidance in terms of how they interpret this
3 legislation as it relates to this very specific
4 group and category of paints that are
5 specifically designed for artists' materials.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
7 Oppenheimer.
8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I truly
9 empathize, and I was a painter, and I -- I
10 think, I guess will the Senator yield for a
11 question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Would the
13 Senator yield?
14 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Yes, he
16 will.
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Is there no
18 alternative? I mean I would think that there
19 would be some possible alternative to the
20 utilization of this tiny patch that you're
21 referring to that's on the label? There -- has
22 the company -- obviously, it must have fully
23 explored absolutely every alternative?
5882
1 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Senator, I
2 did -- I did discuss this with the company and
3 in fact, they -- the problem is this: It -- for
4 marketing this very unique product to a very
5 unique group of potential customers, it's very
6 important that they show the true color of the
7 paint. Call it artists' temperament or what
8 have you.
9 That particular segment, that
10 market is very, very particular in terms of the
11 exact color. Now, Golden has, you'd say, well,
12 why not just print out a sheet of paper which
13 would have different colors printed on it
14 through dyes, for example? The problem with that
15 is it does not reflect the true color of the
16 paint that would be inside of the container, and
17 that's the bind that we find ourselves in.
18 I'm certainly not looking to
19 unravel the fine work that was done in the
20 legislation a couple of years ago, but this one
21 small segment, this one small segment of our
22 dwindling manufacturing base in New York State
23 needs this type of relief so that they can
5883
1 continue to market their products worldwide and
2 provide jobs for the people of our state.
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: On the
4 bill, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
6 Oppenheimer, on the bill.
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: While I
8 understand the problem here, and I -- I do feel
9 sympathetically, and I do recognize, as I said,
10 having painted at one time, that it is very
11 important to -- to have the true, the essential
12 color on the exterior of the package, you know,
13 describing what's contained.
14 I think the bottom line is that
15 these kind of exceptions, if -- if requested
16 once probably would set a precedent for many,
17 many more exceptions to our Hazardous Packaging
18 Act and -- and I feel that it's such an
19 important act to our health and to our
20 environmental health, that I -- I will still
21 have to say that I would urge a no vote for
22 those who are concerned about their health and
23 -- and where this hazardous material ends up in
5884
1 our waste stream.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last
3 section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
10 the negative on Calendar Number 1292 are
11 Senators Dollinger, Gold, Jones, Leichter,
12 Ohrenstein, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Pataki and
13 Stachowski. Ayes 44 -- ayes 44, nays 9.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill
15 is passed.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you
18 recognize the Majority Leader, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
20 Marino.
21 SENATOR MARINO: Mr. President, I
22 thought the members might like to know that I've
23 just been advised that the former Speaker, Mel
5885
1 Miller's conviction has been overturned, so I'm
2 -- I just wanted to announce that the members
3 should be pleased, as I am, that this conviction
4 has been overturned, congratulate the former
5 Speaker and want to reiterate my -- my feeling
6 that he's always been an honest and -- an honest
7 person with great integrity. It's -- that's the
8 only announcement I have.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
10 Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Do you have any
12 housekeeping chores?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Yes, we
14 do.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Take care of
16 them, please. (To Senator Cook) We did your
17 bill. I'm sorry about that.
18 THE SECRETARY: On page 23,
19 Senator Libous moves to discharge the Committee
20 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7189-A, and
21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
22 921.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:
5886
1 Substitution ordered.
2 Senator Kuhl.
3 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
4 President. On behalf of Senator Farley, on page
5 22, I offer up the following amendments to
6 Calendar Number 889, Senate Print 2728-A, and
7 ask the said bill retain its place on the Third
8 Reading Calendar.
9 Also, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
11 Kuhl.
12 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr.
13 President, on behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on
14 page 18, I offer the following amendments to
15 Calendar Number 846, Senate Print 4477, and ask
16 that said bill retain its place on the Third
17 Reading Calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:
19 Amendments accepted.
20 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
22 Seward.
23 SENATOR SEWARD: On behalf of
5887
1 Senator Padavan, on page 29, I offer the
2 following amendments to Calendar Number 1213,
3 Senate Print Number 4704-A, and ask that the
4 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading
5 Calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:
7 Amendments accepted.
8 Senator Kuhl again.
9 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
10 President, on behalf of Senator Spano, I wish to
11 call up his bill, Senate Print 1533, recalled
12 from the Assembly which is now at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Secretary
14 will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Spano,
16 Senate Bill Number 1533, an act to amend the
17 Penal Law.
18 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I
19 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
20 bill was passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the
22 roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
5888
1 reconsideration. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
3 SENATOR KUHL: Offer up the
4 following amendments, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:
6 Amendments accepted.
7 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
9 Holland.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
11 on behalf of Senator Wright, on page 28, I offer
12 the following amendments to Calendar Number
13 1193, Senate Print 5768, and ask that said bill
14 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Amendment
16 accepted. Senator Seward.
17 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
19 Holland still has the floor.
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of
21 Senator Saland, on page 38, I offer the
22 following amendments to Calendar Number 200,
23 Senate Print Number 766, and ask that the said
5889
1 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Amendment
4 accepted. Senator Seward.
5 SENATOR SEWARD: I defer to
6 Senator Libous.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator
8 Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
10 please remove a star from Calendar 3927-B,
11 Calendar 894.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Star is
13 removed.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: That
17 concludes, I think, the housekeeping business.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 there being no further business, I move that we
20 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senate
22 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
23 (Whereupon, at 4:25 p.m., the
5890
1 Senate adjourned.)
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