Regular Session - June 29, 1993
6154
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 29, 1993
11 3:05 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 LT. GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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6155
1 P R O C E E D I N G S.
2 ... At 2:30 p.m...
3 SENATOR PRESENT: I'd like to
4 announce an immediate meeting of the Rules
5 Committee in Room 332.
6 ... At 3:05 p.m...
7 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
8 come to order. Senators will please find their
9 places. Like to ask everyone present to rise
10 and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with me.
11 (The assemblage repeated the
12 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
13 Please be seated. In the absence
14 of visiting clergy, may we bow our heads in a
15 moment of silence.
16 (A moment of silence was
17 observed. )
18 Secretary will read the Journal.
19 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
20 Monday, June 28th. The Senate met pursuant to
21 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, June 27th,
22 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
23 adjourned.
6156
1 THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
2 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
3 Presentation of petitions.
4 Messages from the Assembly.
5 Messages from the Governor.
6 Reports of standing committees.
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino,
9 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
10 following bills directly for third reading:
11 Senate Bill Number 1196-A, by
12 Senator Levy, to establish a temporary state
13 commission on real property taxation;
14 1770, by Senator Waldon,
15 authorize the city of New York to reconvey its
16 interest in certain real property;
17 2745, by Senator LaValle, General
18 Municipal Law;
19 3527-B, by Senator Tully, to
20 provide for payment of allowances to private,
21 blind and deaf schools;
22 40 -- 4416, by Senator Maltese,
23 an act to amend the Executive Law;
6157
1 4525, by Senator Sheffer, to
2 amend the Parks, Recreation, Historic
3 Preservation Law;
4 4552-A, by Senator Sheffer,
5 Parks, Recreation, Historic Preservation Law;
6 4756-A, by Senator Daly, Public
7 Authorities Law;
8 4983, by Senator Nolan, to allow
9 Olga M. Dwyer to transfer credit earned in the
10 New York State Teachers' Retirement System;
11 5072-B, by Senator Johnson,
12 Environmental Conservation Law;
13 5111-A, by Senator Saland, Social
14 Services Law;
15 5255-A, by Senator Daly,
16 Not-for-Profit Corporation Law;
17 5582-A, by Senator Saland,
18 Domestic Relations Law and the Family Court Act;
19 5665, by Senator Padavan, amends
20 Chapter 611 of the Laws of 1977;
21 5702-A by the Committee on Rules,
22 amends Chapter 879 of the Laws of 1936;
23 5756, by Senator Volker, Public
6158
1 Health Law;
2 5794, by Senator Connor, Election
3 Law;
4 5895, by Senator Sheffer,
5 Education Law;
6 5926, by Senator Hannon, amends
7 Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993;
8 5974, by Senator Trunzo, an act
9 to amend the Highway Law, highway system in
10 Suffolk County, reported with amendments;
11 6003, by Senator Cook, Retirement
12 and Social Security Law;
13 6009, by Senator Daly,
14 Not-for-Profit Corporation Law;
15 And 6049, by the Committee on
16 Rules, amends Chapter 814 of the Laws of 1987.
17 All bills reported directly for
18 third reading.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Third reading.
20 O.K.
21 Reports of select committees.
22 Communications and reports from
23 state officers.
6159
1 Motions and resolutions. Senator
2 Farley.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 I have five motions here. On
6 behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on page 18, I
7 offer the following amendments to Calendar 846,
8 Senate Print 4477-A, and I ask that that bill
9 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
10 On behalf of Senator Padavan, on
11 page 27, I offer the following amendments to
12 Calendar Number 1213, Senate Print 4704-B, and
13 ask that that bill retain its place.
14 On behalf of Senator Daly, on
15 page 34, I offer the following amendments to
16 Calendar Number 1358, Senate Print Number 1092,
17 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the
18 Third Reading Calendar.
19 On behalf of Senator LaValle, on
20 page 29, I offer the following amendments to
21 Calendar Number 1308, Senate Print 3176, and I
22 ask that that bill retain its place on the Third
23 Reading Calendar.
6160
1 On behalf of Senator Maltese, on
2 page 40, I offer the following amendments to
3 Calendar Number 1400, Senate Print 5977, and I
4 ask that that bill retain its place on the Third
5 Reading Calendar.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present.
8 SENATOR PRESENT: I wish to call
9 up my bill, 2426-A, recalled from the Assembly
10 which is now at the desk.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
12 read.
13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
14 Present, Senate Bill Number 2426-A, an act to
15 amend the Agriculture and Markets Law and the
16 Economic Development Law.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
19 bill was passed.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on
21 reconsideration.
22 (The Secretary called the roll on
23 reconsideration. )
6161
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
3 I now offer the following amendments.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments
5 received.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
7 on page 40, I offer the following amendments to
8 Calendar Number 1406, Senate Print 6020, and ask
9 that it retain its place on the Third Reading
10 Calendar.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Without
12 objection, so ordered.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
14 on page 33, I offer the following amendments to
15 Calendar 1348, Print 5951, and ask that it
16 retain its place on the calendar.
17 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
18 Senator Stachowski.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
20 President, on page 27, I offer the following
21 amendments to Calendar 1185, Senate Print Number
22 5364, and ask that the said bill retain its
23 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
6162
1 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
3 President, on page 16, I offer the following
4 amendments to calendar 792, Senate Print Number
5 1477, and ask that said bill retain its place on
6 the Third Reading Calendar.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Without
8 objection, so ordered.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Larkin.
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
12 wish to call up my bill, Senate Print 2736,
13 recalled from the Senate which is now at the
14 desk.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
16 read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 2736, an act to amend
19 the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to
20 assessment disclosure notices.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: I now move to
22 reconsider the vote by which this bill was
23 passed.
6163
1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on
2 reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Offer the
7 following amendments.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments
9 received.
10 Senator Libous.
11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
12 I'd like to remove a star on Calendar 893,
13 Senate Print 2344-B, which is my bill.
14 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: And I have some
16 amendments.
17 On behalf of Senator Saland, Mr.
18 President, I wish to call up his bill 4969-A,
19 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
20 desk.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
22 read.
23 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
6164
1 Saland, Senate Bill Number 4969-A, an act to
2 amend the Public Authorities Law.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
4 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
5 bill was passed.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on
7 reconsideration.
8 (The Secretary called the roll on
9 reconsideration. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
12 offer up the following amendments.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments
14 received.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
16 on behalf of Senator Daly, I wish to also call
17 up his Bill Number 5200 recalled from the
18 Assembly which is now at the desk.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
20 read.
21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Daly,
22 Senate Bill Number 5200, Environmental
23 Conservation Law.
6165
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
2 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
3 bill was passed.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on
5 reconsideration.
6 (The Secretary called the roll on
7 reconsideration. )
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
10 offer up the following amendments.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments
12 received.
13 Senator Volker.
14 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
15 wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number
16 3401-A, recalled from the Assembly which is now
17 at the desk.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
19 read.
20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
21 Volker, Senate Bill Number 3401-A, an act to
22 amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
6166
1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
2 bill was passed.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on
4 reconsideration.
5 (The Secretary called the roll on
6 reconsideration. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
8 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
9 now offer the following amendments.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments
11 received.
12 Senator Mega.
13 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, on
14 behalf of Senator Lack, on page 18, I offer the
15 following amendments to Calendar Number 864,
16 Senate Print Number 4768-A, and ask that said
17 bill retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
18 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
19 SENATOR MEGA: On behalf of
20 Senator Sears, Mr. President, on page 6, I offer
21 the following amendments to Calendar Number 178,
22 Senate Print 1129-A, and ask that said bill
23 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
6167
1 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
2 Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: On page 11 of
4 today's calendar, Senator Spano moves to
5 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
6 Bill Number 1335-C and substitute it for the
7 identical Third Reading 598.
8 On page 24, Senator Holland moves
9 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
10 Assembly Bill Number 7933-A and substitute it
11 for the identical Calendar 1042.
12 On page 33, Senator Farley moves
13 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
14 Assembly Bill Number 5032 and substitute it for
15 the identical Calendar Number 1354.
16 On page 34, Senator Spano moves
17 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
18 Assembly Bill Number 1818-A and substitute it
19 for the identical Third Reading 1356.
20 On page 34, Senator Waldon moves
21 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
22 Assembly Bill Number 2989 and substitute it for
23 the identical Third Reading 1360.
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1 On page 34 also, Senator Goodman
2 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from
3 Assembly Bill Number 4225-A and substitute it
4 for the identical Third Reading 1363.
5 On page 35, Senator Holland moves
6 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
7 Assembly Bill Number 7146, and substitute it for
8 the identical Third Reading 1367.
9 On page 35, Senator Larkin moves
10 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
11 Assembly Bill Number 7157-A, and substitute it
12 for the identical Third Reading 1369.
13 On page 35, Senator Hannon moves
14 to discharge the Committee on Judiciary from
15 Assembly Bill Number 1523 and substitute it for
16 the identical Third Reading 1371.
17 On page 36, Senator Maltese moves
18 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
19 Assembly Bill Number 7961 and substitute it for
20 the identical Third Reading 1372.
21 On page 36, Senator Saland moves
22 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
23 Assembly Bill Number 7190-A and substitute it
6169
1 for the identical Third Reading 1373.
2 On page 36, Senator Trunzo moves
3 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
4 Assembly Bill Number 7710-A and substitute it
5 for the identical Third Reading 1374.
6 On page 35, Senator Mega moves to
7 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
8 Bill Number 8292 and substitute it for the
9 identical Third Reading 1375.
10 On page 36, Senator Tully moves
11 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
12 Assembly Bill Number 6971-A and substitute it
13 for the identical Third Reading 1377.
14 On page 37, Senator Lack moves to
15 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
16 Bill Number 5916, and substitute it for the
17 identical Third Reading 1382.
18 On page 37, Senator Tully moves
19 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
20 Assembly Bill Number 8139-A and substitute it
21 for the identical Third Reading 1383.
22 On page 37, Senator Mega moves to
23 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
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1 Bill Number 7866-A and substitute it for the
2 identical Third Reading 1388.
3 On page 38, Senator Ohrenstein
4 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from
5 Assembly Bill Number 7974, and substitute it for
6 the identical Third Reading 1390.
7 On page 38, Senator Galiber moves
8 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
9 Assembly Bill Number 8586, and substitute it for
10 the identical Third Reading 1394.
11 On page 39, Senator Holland moves
12 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
13 Assembly Bill Number 8204 and substitute it for
14 the identical Third Reading 1396.
15 On page 39, Senator Holland moves
16 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
17 Assembly Bill Number 8207 and substitute it for
18 the identical Third Reading 1399.
19 And on page 40, Senator Skelos
20 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from
21 Assembly Bill Number 8480, and substitute it for
22 the identical Third Reading 1401.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Substitutions
6171
1 ordered.
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
4 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar
5 which is on our desks.
6 THE PRESIDENT: On the
7 resolutions, all those in favor say aye.
8 (Response of "Aye.")
9 Opposed nay.
10 (There was no response. )
11 The ayes have it. The
12 resolutions are adopted.
13 Senator Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
15 can we take up the non-controversial calendar,
16 please.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
18 read.
19 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
20 Calendar Number 51, by member of the Assembly
21 Vitaliano, Assembly Bill Number 2266, Civil
22 Service Law, in relation to age requirement for
23 provisional or permanent appointment.
6172
1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
8 passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 174, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1922,
11 amends Chapter 883 of the Laws of 1980, amending
12 the Banking Law.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
15 aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1883, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number
18 1776-A, authorize the city of Glen Cove, Nassau
19 County, to sell certain parcels of real
20 property.
21 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
22 rule message at the desk. Last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6173
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6 passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 276, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 193-A,
9 an act to amend the Railroad Law and the Public
10 Authorities Law.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
18 passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 395, by Senator Kuhl.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for
22 today.
23 THE PRESIDENT: I'm sorry,
6174
1 Senator.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay 395 aside
3 for the day, also 471.
4 THE PRESIDENT: O.K. The bills
5 are laid aside for the day.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 729, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number
8 3105-D, an act to amend the General Business
9 Law.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
14 (The secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
17 passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 841, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number
20 3716-A, an act to amend the Military Law.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you lay
22 that aside, please.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
6175
1 aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 870, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number
4 4900-B, Emergency Housing Rent Control Law.
5 THE SECRETARY: Lay it aside.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 987, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2094,
10 an act to amend the Executive Law.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
18 passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1068, by member of the Assembly DiNapoli,
21 Assembly Bill Number 3538-A, Education Law, in
22 relation to shared personnel.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
6176
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -
6 SENATOR FARLEY: What number is
7 that?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Calendar Number
9 1068.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
12 passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1086, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
15 4629-A, to provide service credit in the New
16 York State and local retirement system.
17 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
18 rule message at the desk. Last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays 2,
6177
1 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the
2 negative.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
4 passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly,
7 Assembly Bill Number 2396-A, Environmental
8 Conservation Law.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
12 aside.
13 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Daly.
15 SENATOR DALY: With unanimous
16 consent, could I be voted in the negative on
17 Senate 2048-A, Calendar 1068.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Without
19 objection, so ordered.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1161, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 2717,
22 an act to amend the Local Finance Law.
23 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
6178
1 rule message at the desk. Last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
8 passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1250, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number
11 4897, Administrative Code of the city of New
12 York.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: 1251, by Senator
18 Lack.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
20 for the day, please.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
22 aside for the day.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6179
1 1262, by Senator Johnson.
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Will you lay
3 that aside for the day.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
5 aside for the day.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1297, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
8 Assembly Bill Number 8485-A, authorizing the
9 Commissioner of General Services to sell and
10 convey to the village of Elmsford in the county
11 of Westchester certain lands.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
16 aside.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. Let it
18 go. Last section.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
20 section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
6180
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
4 passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1316, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
7 Assembly Bill Number 8371, Education Law, in
8 relation to the frequency of school census.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1323, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
15 2121-A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
16 Law.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
20 aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1326, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number
23 3463.
6181
1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Lay that aside
2 for the day, 1326.
3 THE PRESIDENT: 1326, yes, the
4 bill is laid aside for the day.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1329, by Senator Cook.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
9 aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1333, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number
12 4601-A, Economic Development Law, in relation to
13 the preparation of performance plans.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1336, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number
19 4782-A, an act to amend the State Finance Law.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6182
1 1338, by Senator Hannon.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
3 for the day, please.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
5 aside for the day.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1339, by the Assembly -
8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
10 aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1341, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Print Number 5854-A, General Business Law.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
21 passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1344, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
6183
1 5922, an act to amend the Public Authorities
2 Law.
3 SENATOR VOLKER: Lay that bill
4 aside for today, please.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
6 aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1347, by Senator Johnson.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
11 aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1354, substituted earlier today, by member of
14 the Assembly Murtagh, Assembly Bill Number 3502.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1356, substituted earlier today, by member of
20 the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Bill Number
21 1818-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6184
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6 passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1357, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number
9 1064, an act to amend the Tax Law.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
17 passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1359, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
20 1109-A, Environmental Conservation Law and the
21 Navigation Law.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
23 please.
6185
1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
2 aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1360, substituted earlier today, by member of
5 the Assembly Jenkins, Assembly Bill Number 2989,
6 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
7 interest in certain real property.
8 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
9 rule message at the desk. Last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
16 passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1361, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
19 1924, to authorize Harold K. Warner -
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6186
1 1362, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number
2 2138, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
3 Law.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1363, substituted earlier today, by member of
9 the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number
10 4225-A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
11 Law.
12 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
13 rule message at the desk.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1364, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
19 2623-A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6187
1 1366, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 3335,
2 an act to amend the Insurance Law.
3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Lay aside.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1367, substituted earlier today, by member of
8 the Assembly Jacobs, Assembly Bill Number 7146,
9 an act to amend the Social Services Law.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
17 passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1368, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
20 4111-B, an act to amend the Banking Law and the
21 Vehicle and Traffic Law.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6188
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6 passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1369, substituted earlier today, by member of
9 the Assembly Stringer, Assembly Bill Number
10 7157-A, Real Property Tax Law and the Town Law.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46, nays
17 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
19 passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1370, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number
22 4136, an act to amend the Tax Law.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
6189
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Bill is laid
5 aside.
6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
7 with unanimous consent, I'd like to be recorded
8 in -
9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: With unanimous
11 consent, I'd like to be recorded in the negative
12 for Calendar Number 1369.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Without
14 objection, it's so ordered.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1371, substituted earlier today, by member of
17 the Assembly Lasher, Assembly Bill Number 1523,
18 an act to amend the Real Property Law.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
21 for the day, please.
22 THE PRESIDENT: For the day? The
23 bill is laid aside for the day.
6190
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1372, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
3 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7961,
4 an act to amend the Correction Law.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
12 passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1373, substituted earlier today, by member of
15 the Assembly E. Hill, Assembly Bill Number
16 7190-A, Social Services Law and the Domestic
17 Relations Law.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
6191
1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
2 passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1374, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
5 Committee on Rules.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
7 please.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
9 aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1375, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
12 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8292,
13 Eminent Domain Procedure Law.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: The bill is laid
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1376, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4754,
19 to grant permanent competitive civil service
20 status to certain employee.
21 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
22 rule message at the desk. Last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6192
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays
5 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
7 passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1377, substituted earlier today, by member of
10 the Assembly Hochberg, Assembly Bill Number
11 6971-A, General Business Law, in relation to
12 home use medical diagnostic devices.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
20 passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1378, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
23 4944, an act to amend the Civil Rights Law.
6193
1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately. Do you want
4 it laid aside?
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just want to
6 vote in the negative.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1379, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number
10 5149, Correction Law, in relation to the
11 appointment of correction officers.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
19 passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1380, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
22 5156, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
23 Law.
6194
1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 1,
7 Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
9 passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1381, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number
12 5256-A, Private Housing Finance Law.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect -
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside,
17 please.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
19 aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1382, substituted earlier today, by member of
22 the Assembly Bragman, Assembly Bill Number 5916,
23 amends Chapter 698 of the Laws of 1988, amending
6195
1 the Labor Law.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
9 passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1383, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
12 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8139-A,
13 extension of the statute of limitations for
14 commencing a cause of action.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
22 passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6196
1 1384, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number
2 5275-C, an act to amend the Public Health Law
3 and the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
11 passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 -- excuse me, ayes 52, nays one, Senator Kuhl
14 recorded in the negative, on Calendar 1384.
15 Calendar Number 1387, by Senator
16 Johnson, Senate Bill Number 5339-A, an act to
17 amend the State Finance Law.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
6197
1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
2 passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar
4 Number -
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Larkin.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
7 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the
8 negative on Calendar Number 1384.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Without
10 objection, so ordered.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1388, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
13 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7866-A,
14 Civil Service Law and the Administrative Code of
15 the city of New York.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
23 passed.
6198
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1389, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 5576
3 -A.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid
6 aside. Senator Dollinger.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1390, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7974,
10 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
11 interest in certain real property.
12 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
13 rule message at the desk. Last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
20 passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1391, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number
23 5886-A, an act to amend the Workers'
6199
1 Compensation Law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1392, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
7 5915-A, temporarily exempt from medical
8 licensure requirements physicians.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
14 aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1393, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5927,
17 an act to amend the Executive Law.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
6200
1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
2 passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1394, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
5 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8586,
6 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
7 interest in certain real property.
8 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
9 rule message at the desk.
10 Read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
17 passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1395, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
20 5944, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
22 section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6201
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1396, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8204,
8 amends Chapter 333 of the Laws of 1989,
9 establishing the Social Services Law.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
11 section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
18 passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1398, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5970,
21 Education Law and the Local Finance Law.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
23 section.
6202
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
7 passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1399, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
10 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8207,
11 amends Chapter 710 of the Laws of 1988, amending
12 the Social Services Law.
13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside
14 for the day.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
16 aside for the day.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1401, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
19 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8480,
20 an act to amend the Executive Law.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
22 section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6203
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6 passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1402, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5988,
9 amends Chapter 666 of the Laws of 1990.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
11 section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
18 passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1403, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
21 5989, amends Chapter 680 of the Laws of 1976,
22 amending the Local Finance Law.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
6204
1 section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
8 aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1404, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 5992,
11 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and
12 Rules.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
21 passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1405, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
6205
1 Bill Number 6000, an act to amend the Civil
2 Service Law.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
4 section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
11 passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1407, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
14 6042, an act to amend the Education Law.
15 THE PRESIDENT: There is a local
16 fiscal impact note at the desk.
17 Read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6206
1 passed.
2 That completes action on the
3 non-controversial.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
5 can we take up the controversial calendar,
6 please.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
8 read.
9 THE SECRETARY: On page 5,
10 Calendar Number 174, by Senator Farley, Senate
11 Bill Number 1922 -
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
13 for the day, please.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
15 aside for the day.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 841 by -- on page 17, Calendar 841, by Senator
18 DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 3716A, Military
19 Law.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
21 second, please. I yield to Senator Dollinger.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
23 President. I just rise to ask to be excused on
6207
1 this bill. I am currently involved in
2 litigation with a private litigant over these
3 issues, and I feel to avoid an appearance of a
4 conflict of interest, I should be excused.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Without
6 objection, so ordered.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
14 passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 870, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number
17 4900B, Emergency Housing Rent Control.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
21 aside.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Temporarily.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Temporarily.
6208
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly,
3 Assembly Bill Number 2396A, Environmental
4 Conservation Law.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
6 SENATOR MARCHI: Lay it aside.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
8 aside.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is that for
10 the day or the session?
11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
12 aside temporarily.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1250, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number
15 4897, an act to amend the Administrative Code of
16 the city of New York.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation
19 requested.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is
21 requested.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
6209
1 aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1316, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
4 Assembly Bill Number 8371, Education Law, in
5 relation to the frequency of school census.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is
8 requested. Senator Johnson.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Johnson,
10 there are a number of other education bills
11 which we have been discussing between our staff
12 and the Majority Leader's staff, and I would be
13 more comfortable if we laid this bill aside
14 until we got an answer from the Majority
15 Leader's staff on some of our bills. It may be
16 when that answer comes through it will clarify
17 some of the issues on your bill.
18 Would you consent to lay it
19 aside.
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, is
21 that going to be today or on another day?
22 SENATOR GOLD: I don't know.
23 Senator Johnson, I don't know. I'm hoping that
6210
1 the powers that be understand the lightning and
2 we start to get some answers. But for the time
3 being if you want to lay it aside, we might wind
4 up saving some debate.
5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I am
6 being pressed by the Assembly sponsor who
7 already passed this bill to get it going. So
8 I'll lay it aside today, Senator, and hope we
9 can take it up tomorrow.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
12 aside for the day.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1323, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
15 2121A, Real Property Tax Law.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is
18 requested. Senator Johnson.
19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President.
20 This bill provides that property can be improved
21 and only -- the assessment, the increased
22 assessment be phased in on the tax rolls over a
23 period of eight years.
6211
1 This is a statewide bill
2 sponsored in the Assembly by Assemblyman
3 Pillittere. I would have preferred, quite
4 frankly, to pass a bill confined to Suffolk
5 County but the Assembly doesn't care to do
6 that. So this bill is before us. It's optional
7 on any municipalities.
8 It's a good bill. It would
9 encourage property improvement. It is very
10 similar to a bill -- I believe it may be on the
11 calendar right now. Senator Marchi is extending
12 this type of exemption for home improvements in
13 the city of New York. This is something that we
14 need in the balance of the state, and certainly
15 in our county we'd like to have if adopted.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Would
19 Senator Johnson yield, please?
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
22 don't have the memorandum on this bill. What's
23 the fiscal impact?
6212
1 SENATOR JOHNSON: There is no
2 fiscal impact on anyone except communities
3 which decide to opt into it, and probably the
4 impact is they would have more home improvements
5 than they presently have and in addition to
6 increased sales of building products, increased
7 work by contract and increased payrolls, and so
8 forth. That is the fiscal impact, Senator, but
9 there is no negative impact on the state of New
10 York.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator
12 Johnson -
13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, would
14 you like a memo? Would you like to have a copy
15 of the memo? Would it be helpful to you?
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I believe
17 that you described the optimistic forecast that
18 you made. My question is, you know, we see a
19 lot of bills that we know will have a fiscal
20 impact. Obviously, if a community opts into
21 this and gives up some tax revenue, real estate
22 taxes, that has a fiscal impact.
23 Now, Senator Johnson, your answer
6213
1 is, yes, but it's going to stimulate so much
2 construction that you're actually going to raise
3 more monies in the community through various
4 means. But my question to you is, have you seen
5 any study on this, Senator, which shows that in
6 fact these programs do create new construction,
7 do add to the tax base, or is this anecdotal or
8 your instinct or intuition?
9 SENATOR JOHNSON: All of the
10 above.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's what I
12 thought, Senator.
13 SENATOR JOHNSON: But, Senator,
14 I'd like to ask if you are going to vote against
15 the continuation of a similar exemption for New
16 York City? If you are then I'd say you should
17 vote against this. On the other hand, if you
18 think it's appropriate for New York City
19 residents to have the opportunity to improve
20 their residences without immediately getting hit
21 with one hundred percent increase in the tax or
22 one hundred percent of the value increase, then,
23 therefore, you should follow, I think, likewise
6214
1 and support this. On the other hand, if you
2 think it's negative in New York City and the
3 state, you should do that.
4 But, Senator, let me say that if
5 no one builds anything, nothing happens, and
6 that work is not there and that increased tax
7 revenue is not there. We're trying to let
8 people ease into the increased tax bill they
9 will have as a result of improving their homes.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
11 think you make a good point about consistency
12 and if it makes sense for New York City will it
13 make sense upstate, and I'm, frankly, not sure
14 yet really how to vote on this bill or Senator
15 Marchi's bill. Actually I laid Senator Marchi's
16 bill aside, as I believe did some other people.
17 My concern with these bills,
18 Senator, is that often they do carry a large
19 price tag. We've seen it in New York in the
20 exemption program for -- that ended up being an
21 exemption program for luxury housing. We saw it
22 in New York for commercial programs, where we
23 gave enormous subsidies for commercial
6215
1 development, for instance, along in the Times
2 Square area. Development that would have
3 occurred in any -- would have occurred even
4 without this benefit.
5 What I'm just concerned about,
6 how much of a valid incentive is it, or are we
7 just giving people a tax exemption for something
8 they were going to do anyhow and thereby eroding
9 the tax base or limiting the tax base of the
10 community?
11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, let me
12 explain something to you. This bill does not
13 reduce the exemption on any existing property;
14 so, therefore, there is no way this could be a
15 loss to any community. On the other hand, if
16 people do improve their properties, the
17 assessment will phase in over eight years, where
18 under the present system -- a real disincentive,
19 I might say -- if you improve your property, you
20 immediately have an increase of 1,000, 2,000, or
21 whatever, taxes on your house.
22 Some people are afraid to improve
23 their property because they don't know how they
6216
1 are going to pay the present tax bill let alone
2 next year's tax bill. So this is really an
3 incentive to improve property. As you know,
4 Senator, you tax something, you get less of it
5 and you are getting less construction because of
6 the taxes. And if you subsidize something to
7 some extent, you get more of it.
8 And we're having a sort of a
9 subsidization by the balance of the community if
10 that's the wish of the ruling council or board
11 or whatever over in a community. And, Senator,
12 I say if it's good for New York City it's good
13 for the rest of the state.
14 And I might say I have been
15 entreated by the city of Rochester to please
16 pass this bill because they want this to improve
17 their community, and Assemblyman Pillittere, as
18 I understand, might be a Democrat, and he wants
19 this bill. The Long Island Association wants
20 this bill because they want some economic
21 activity in our state and in our region.
22 And as you know, it's been said
23 before, many times, that we've lost over 40
6217
1 percent of the jobs in the recent recession that
2 we have been enjoying in this state. It's time
3 to do something affirmative to get a little
4 economic activity going without any negative
5 downsizing -- the jobs, the increased sales of
6 building materials, plumbing materials, and so
7 forth. It's definitely an upbeat thing for the
8 economy, and we should be permitted to do that
9 without penalizing people.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, one
11 final question, if you would be so good as to
12 yield. Is this solely for residential
13 properties?
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: And would that
16 also be for apartment buildings or is this
17 defined in some way to be limited?
18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Residential
19 buildings. It says "residential buildings." Our
20 bill had up to two-family buildings. Let me see
21 what this says, here.
22 Okay. Two families, Senator,
23 page 2, line 50. One- or two-family homes.
6218
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Which line was
2 that, Senator?
3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Page 2, line
4 50.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay.
6 Senator, you were eloquent as always, and you
7 have convinced me.
8 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you,
9 Senator.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jones.
11 SENATOR JONES: On the bill, Mr.
12 President. I just wanted to add my support to
13 what Senator Johnson has already said. The city
14 of Rochester is extremely interested in the
15 passage of this bill. Ninety-seven percent of
16 the houses in Rochester are over ten years old
17 and the revitalization of the neighborhood is
18 very critical to the city.
19 So they are very much in support
20 of this bill and feel it would be a great
21 attribute to the city to be able to offer this
22 extension and as a result get the property
23 improved. So I would like to support this bill.
6219
1 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
2 section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1.
8 Senator Cook recorded in the negative.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
10 passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1329, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4177,
13 an act to grant retroactive membership in
14 retirement benefits from the New York State and
15 local employees retirement system.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation,
17 please.
18 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
19 According to the information I have, Ruth
20 Rauscher was employed by the Eldred School
21 District from September '78 to May of '91. The
22 Sullivan County School District participated in
23 the New York State employees retirement system,
6220
1 but through no fault of her own Ruth Rauscher
2 did not become a member of the system in 1978.
3 Under this legislation, Ruth Rauscher shall be
4 deemed to have been retired from such employment
5 in May of '91 and, therefore, be eligible for
6 all retirement benefits as any other member with
7 like service credit of age as herself provided
8 she files an application with the Comptroller on
9 or before December 31st.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield
11 to a question?
12 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Cook, I
14 admire your ability, so I am not shocked to see
15 that you have picked up on the -- what I call
16 the Goodhue excuse, quotes, "through no fault of
17 her own." What does that mean? In this case
18 what is not her fault?
19 SENATOR COOK: That means that
20 when a person is employed the assumption is that
21 the employing body will inform the individual of
22 all the rights and the opportunities that they
23 have and that they will see to it that the
6221
1 necessary papers are filed so that this person
2 becomes a member of the system. Unfortunately,
3 when you are dealing with small entities,
4 occasionally the personnel who are doing the
5 hiring are not highly trained personnel people
6 and for some reason or another they don't file
7 the necessary papers.
8 In this case, the school district
9 has admitted that in fact that was the case, and
10 they are prepared to pay the freight.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Will you yield to
12 a question, Senator?
13 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
14 SENATOR GOLD: You say the school
15 district said that wasn't the case. I assume
16 when she became employed there was somebody who
17 handled her employment, her application, her
18 paperwork. Isn't that so?
19 SENATOR COOK: I'm sorry.
20 SENATOR GOLD: There was some
21 human who handled her paperwork?
22 SENATOR COOK: Apparently.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator,
6222
1 would you yield to another question?
2 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Do you know who
4 that human was and whether that human was
5 involved in any other individuals who became
6 employed?
7 SENATOR COOK: I assume they
8 probably were, Senator. There is no explanation
9 as to why this person's records are different
10 from other people's. Somebody dropped the
11 ball. She assumed she was a member of the
12 system. She was not a member of the system.
13 Nobody, frankly, has an explanation, except that
14 for some reason the paperes didn't get filed.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Cook, if
16 you yield to one more question?
17 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
18 SENATOR GOLD: You are saying
19 that nobody has an explanation and, therefore,
20 we're assuming that the woman was not given
21 information, which she may very well have been
22 given, or that she filed papers or somebody lost
23 it. We don't know what happened.
6223
1 SENATOR COOK: That's exactly the
2 case.
3 SENATOR GOLD: We do not know
4 anything other than the fact that this woman is
5 not a member of the system.
6 SENATOR COOK: Senator.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
8 SENATOR COOK: If a person is
9 employed they are supposed to become a member of
10 the employees retirement system; correct?
11 SENATOR GOLD: I don't know.
12 SENATOR COOK: They are employed
13 by a public entity.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah.
15 SENATOR COOK: That's mandatory.
16 Whoever is the clerk of the employer under
17 normal circumstances fills out these papers,
18 mails them to the retirement system. It's not
19 the employee who does these things, normally.
20 It's the clerk of the district. It's their
21 responsibility to do this. It's the same thing
22 as you don't mail your W form in -- W-4 form in
23 to the Internal Revenue Service. The employer
6224
1 does that. You don't send your Blue Cross -
2 0-0-0 that name. You don't send your health
3 insurance registration in to the insurance
4 company. The employer does that. In this case,
5 for some reason that nobody understands, the
6 employer did not do this. Now, the situation
7 would be, I suppose, if it were health insurance
8 you would be expecting a membership card. But,
9 you know, with non-contributory retirement
10 systems, you don't have any evidence of that.
11 The employee frankly doesn't really know that
12 the employer is paying a premium in to the sys
13 tem for them, so they don't get any information
14 about that. And this person suddenly woke up
15 one day and found out that this piece of paper
16 that was supposed to go to Albany never went,
17 and that's really the situation. And, you know,
18 where could it be? It could be under the desk.
19 You know, it could have been dropped on the way
20 to the post office. Nobody knows.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
22 yield to one more question?
23 SENATOR COOK: Sure.
6225
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the woman
2 become employed in 1978. In December of 1978,
3 was there a mandatory system in place in in
4 locality?
5 SENATOR COOK: I think that,
6 Senator, and I could stand to be corrected, but
7 I think that all public employees are -- have to
8 join the retirement system. I may be incorrect
9 on that.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Cook, if
11 you will yield to a question?
12 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
13 SENATOR GOLD: One thing I'm very
14 sympathetic about, Senator, is when a legislator
15 says to me they are not sure about something,
16 because we vote some 2,000 times in this place,
17 and as you and I both know, maybe 800 of those
18 are one-house bills, so you try to get them out
19 of your mind and then the Governor vetoes some.
20 So when people in my law firm ask
21 me questions, I say, "You better check the book
22 because I don't want to get confused." But my
23 understanding, Senator, is that a number of
6226
1 years ago there were options as to whether or
2 not people joined or not joined.
3 SENATOR COOK: Senator, I'm told
4 that you are correct.
5 SENATOR GOLD: That I am correct?
6 SENATOR COOK: That it was
7 optional at that time.
8 SENATOR GOLD: So, Senator,
9 that's -- I think today it may not be, but I
10 think then it was.
11 So, Senator Cook, now I ask you
12 to just take one more step back. If the system
13 was optional, and somebody didn't take the
14 option, and now we come here in 1993. The woman
15 went to work in 1978. I think it's absurd for us
16 to be putting people into pension systems some
17 fifteen years or more after they started work,
18 when the bottom line is that you and I both
19 know, Senator Cook -- at least I know and I'm
20 telling you -- that is there were people who
21 elected not to be part of the system.
22 Senator, I have people who worked
23 for me for 20-some-odd years. They wished they
6227
1 had joined the system. They never did. It
2 wasn't the state's fault.
3 SENATOR COOK: Can I ask you a
4 question?
5 SENATOR GOLD: Of course.
6 SENATOR COOK: If I may, Mr.
7 President? Senator, who will pay the cost of the
8 benefit?
9 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I'm taking a
10 look at the fiscal note. It says that some part
11 of the cost be paid by the Eldred Central School
12 District.
13 SENATOR COOK: The Eldred Central
14 School District, which was the employer, admits
15 that they made the error. They admit it; that
16 they are willing to pay that cost; and the
17 employee, if there is an employee cost in there,
18 is prepared to pay the cost. I don't know that I
19 am prepared to tell the Eldred School District
20 that I don't believe them, that they didn't make
21 a mistake, when they are willing to admit they
22 made a mistake and pay the cost.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
6228
1 On the bill, Mr. President.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Mr.
4 President. There is a lady named Ruth Rauscher,
5 and I want to tell you what it is to be
6 important. The President of the United States is
7 a very important person. The Governor is very
8 important. But in this woman's life, the most
9 important people are not the President, not the
10 Governor. It happens to be some people on a
11 local school board, and I guess if you are Ruth
12 Rauscher and the people on the school board like
13 you and everybody's memory is jarried so they
14 want to do you a favor, you wind up in a pension
15 system.
16 You know, one of the great shows
17 in American musical theatre liturgy, "Damn
18 Yankees", it's wonderful. This fellow has no
19 background, makes a deal with the devil, and now
20 he is a baseball player. And the devil who is
21 trying to get him back has to cause some
22 commotion. So now the question is, "Who is this
23 man?" And he was very lucky because some friends
6229
1 come forward and start swearing about his past
2 that never occurred. You all remember that
3 show. It was a wonderful show on Broadway; it
4 was a great movie. And there were these
5 wonderful friends swearing about a past for
6 someone who never existed and who had no past.
7 I think that this is ridiculous.
8 Now, Senator Trunzo says that after all of our
9 work, there is going to be a Governor's program
10 bill. Let's get a Governor's program bill, and
11 let's get a bill and let these people come
12 before some tribunal or let them do something
13 internally. But I mean we are really ridiculous
14 in doing this stuff.
15 I don't know this woman from a
16 hole in the wall, and nobody else does either,
17 and we're now going back to 1978 when she
18 probably went to work -- I'll betcha, Senator
19 Cook. I'll bet you an apple inside there
20 (indicating) that my scenario is closer to the
21 truth than yours; that this woman went in in
22 1978 and they explained it to her and she said,
23 "Gee, I don't want to give up any money, or I
6230
1 don't -- you know, that sounds like communism.
2 I don't want to be part of any systems or
3 anything. Leave me out of it."
4 Then the woman retires and, all
5 of a sudden, this one's getting money and that
6 one's getting money, and they say, "You know
7 something, Ruth, you're a sweet lady. I'll
8 betcha no one explained it to you; right? It's
9 our fault. Why don't you let us do this, and
10 maybe you'll put up about $1500, but don't worry
11 about it because you are going to get 8400 right
12 back again," and being someone who was involved
13 in the school system, she's very good in math
14 and knows that 8400 beats 1500. Put that up
15 every day.
16 And I just think this is silly
17 stuff. It just is really silly stuff. Senator
18 Cook, you are a gentleman. You are a good guy
19 with a big heart, and I know you always want to
20 do nice things for people, but I think this is
21 the wrong way to spend taxpayer funds.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter.
6231
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
2 President. I think Senator Gold made a very
3 compelling argument, but there is one thing that
4 troubles me, and I wonder whether Senator Trunzo
5 would be so good as to yield.
6 If you would, Senator, I ask you
7 to yield because I think these bills come out of
8 your committee, and we've seen a number of bills
9 like that, maybe twenty this year, and all of
10 them were sponsored by Republicans, which raised
11 a question in my mind because somebody may draw
12 the inference that voters, including employees
13 or at least certainly public employees, in a
14 district represented by Democrats don't make
15 these mistakes. Maybe they are considered to be
16 smarter.
17 Let me finish my question.
18 Either they're smarter or the Democratic
19 representatives they have do a better job in
20 informing people what their pension rights are
21 so they don't make these mistakes that seem to
22 occur only in districts represented by
23 Republicans.
6232
1 Could you explain that to me?
2 SENATOR TRUNZO: Well, I can tell
3 you this, Senator Leichter, that there are many
4 bills which were sponsored by Democratic
5 Senators that were also put out, and in many
6 cases, have already been voted on by this
7 floor. In fact, one bill just came out of Rules
8 today for Senator Nolan. So there are bills by
9 Democratic Senators that have come out.
10 Now, what has happened in many
11 instances, when they were in the Civil Service
12 and Pensions Committee, we didn't let anything
13 out unless it had a home rule message. Then we
14 sent it over, either to the floor or to Rules.
15 In the past couple of weeks,
16 Rules has been calling bills on their own,
17 whether there was a home rule message or not, on
18 various people including Democrat Senators. And
19 so there have been bills on the floor. There
20 have been bills already passed for Democratic
21 Senators as well as Republicans. So you can't
22 say it's just a one-sided thing.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. Mr.
6233
1 President. I accept my good friend's
2 explanation. It's just that I haven't seen any
3 Democratic bills this year, and it brought to
4 mind the thought, "Geez, are the employers
5 represented by Democratic Senators more
6 careful?" And you tell me that indeed there are
7 some public employees represented by Democratic
8 Senators that have also -- without their mistake
9 or without any fault of their own have taken
10 advantage of pension benefits.
11 Thank you, Senator.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
13 section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 3.
19 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in
20 the negative. Also Senator Paterson in the
21 negative. Excuse me.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
23 passed.
6234
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1333, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number
3 4601A, Economic Development Law.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Explanation?
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
8 As we all know in this chamber, by law, we have
9 designated or can designate up to 40 economic
10 development zones in this state. Presently,
11 there are 19 designated. This legislation
12 authorizes an additional 15 to be determined as
13 the law allows.
14 Why are we anxious to create 15
15 more? Because, as you all know, EDZ zones are
16 created in depressed distressed areas with
17 certain criteria allowing them to qualify. If
18 they qualify it's because people there have high
19 unemployment, property taxes aren't producing
20 the revenue that they should. So by this
21 legislation, we are trying to do what we can to
22 help create jobs in distressed areas of this
23 state.
6235
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President. The sponsor yield to just one
3 question?
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
5 Dollinger.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
7 Mr. President. I understand this bill is under
8 negotiation with the Assembly. Is that
9 correct?
10 Could you just tell me what the
11 current status of that is? I understand there
12 are not significant differences between this
13 bill and a version that has either been proposed
14 or discussed in the Assembly, and I'd just be
15 interested in knowing what the status of that is
16 and whether we can expect a final resolution?
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you,
18 Senator. You're right. This bill has been
19 negotiated for several months with the
20 Governor's office, with the Assembly, and I will
21 share with you in this chamber that we have an
22 analysis of the Governor's proposal and ours,
23 and about 80 percent of the Governor's are part
6236
1 of our bill. The Assembly has been seeing fit
2 to approach this differently, and they have
3 almost been watching as the negotiations have
4 taken place.
5 Now, I don't say that
6 argumentatively. I say that as a statement of
7 fact. So I am hopeful by moving this
8 legislation that's very close to the Governor's
9 parallel that we will help them understand that
10 we are very sincere in that we mean and hope to
11 get something done to be helpful to the people
12 of this state.
13 So the negotiations are ongoing,
14 Senator. You're right, and I hope that before we
15 get out of here that we will get a bill to take
16 to the people to accomplish something
17 meaningful.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Will Senator
21 Bruno yield to a question?
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you have
6237
1 been here a long time, and I was asked a
2 question by one of the staff people, and I don't
3 know the answer to it, and I'm sure you probably
4 could help me out.
5 Who is the author of this
6 philosophy that if you are negotiating and you
7 pass a one-house bill you somehow get the other
8 side to shiver and shake and do more at the
9 table? I was trying to figure it out. It makes
10 no sense to me, but I figured somebody must have
11 authored that philosophy.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Gee, I thought it
13 was Senator Gold, but apparently I am mistaken.
14 SENATOR GOLD: You won't find any
15 one-house bills of Senator Gold's. I'm having
16 enough trouble with two-house bills now.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: So I am mistaken,
18 apparently, Senator, so I cannot answer your
19 question. But, as you know, it is one way of
20 not getting people to quiver and shake, but it
21 is one way of establishing very clearly what
22 your legislative intent is, and we are basically
23 stating this is our intent. This is what we're
6238
1 willing to see become law. We feel that the
2 Governor's office fairly concurs, and we hope to
3 get the Assembly to buy in.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
5 yield to a question?
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
7 President.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I know
9 that you have had some very, very public debates
10 with the Governor and with other people on
11 issues such as spending the taxpayer money and
12 taxes and rebates, et cetera.
13 Senator, I know, wouldn't -- this
14 bill has your name on it. It was printed. It
15 cost money to print it. Don't you think that the
16 fact that you went this far is a sign, a real
17 signal to the Assembly and the Governor that you
18 mean business and that you are a responsible
19 person who wouldn't spend taxpayer money over
20 nonsense, had this printed because you believe
21 it ought to be the law.
22 Isn't that telling them enough
23 without us spending two hours on it here?
6239
1 SENATOR BRUNO: I would think so,
2 Senator, and I would prefer to spend two minutes
3 on this rather than two hours, because I think
4 this is meaningful enough in concept that anyone
5 in this chamber that relates to economic
6 development and job creation will support it,
7 and that's really the bottom line here because,
8 if this passes this house, they can substitute
9 it over there, and it can become law.
10 So there is no prohibition as you
11 know, Senator, that prevents them from passing
12 this bill.
13 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Mr.
14 President. I know some other people have some
15 questions, but I would just like to make this
16 comment.
17 Senator Bruno, unfortunately,
18 when we deal in some subjects which are large -
19 if I can use that word. It's a terrible word -
20 we don't have two-minute debates, because we
21 have the bill we had of your -- it wasn't your
22 bill. It was somebody else's bill yesterday,
23 "the fund that didn't exist" bill on the
6240
1 environment, and it had to be answered. So it
2 wasn't two minutes.
3 But, Senator, if it was only two
4 minutes and if you realize that we have about
5 800 one-house bills a year, that's two minutes
6 times 800 is 1600 minutes, divide that. How
7 many hours is that? Twenty, thirty hours that we
8 spend here on this nonsense. So even at two
9 minutes it comes out to that.
10 I know that in Syracuse that's
11 not a lot of time but -- I mean in Albany, I
12 would hope we'd have more respect for that.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Espada,
14 did you want recognition?
15 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, Mr.
16 President. Will Senator Bruno yield to a
17 question, please?
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
19 President.
20 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. I
21 understand that in your bill, certainly you want
22 the tax credit and you do not have language or
23 provisions in there that would result in the
6241
1 comprehensive health care insurance for Tier I
2 employees, but I'm very interested in your
3 inside -- in your observations about that issue,
4 the potential loss of comprehensive health
5 insurance for Tier I employees, in the
6 Governor's bill?
7 SENATOR BRUNO: I'm not sure that
8 I understand your question, Senator.
9 SENATOR ESPADA: Well, the
10 question, just to rephrase the question, what
11 are your feelings about -- should a negotiation
12 ensue that would have the possibility of the
13 loss of comprehensive health care insurance in
14 exchange for a tax credit, what would your
15 feelings be about that?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Debating those
17 two issues, health care?
18 SENATOR ESPADA: Just strictly
19 the loss of comprehensive health care insurance
20 as a possibility.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: We haven't
22 addressed that, you're right, in this
23 legislation. Should we address it? I think
6242
1 there are a lot of issues like that one that
2 should be addressed, certainly, so that we don't
3 deprive employees, public or private, of any
4 benefits that can be provided within the realm
5 of the economics of the state.
6 SENATOR ESPADA: I want to draw
7 from you, and I just want to be very clear, Mr.
8 President, if I may, that -- as you know, I
9 would certainly be in favor of these kinds of
10 tax credits and certainly expanding the economic
11 zones as you provide for in your legislation.
12 What I'm trying to seek out from
13 you is, specifically, if we give momentum and
14 support to this, I would like some assurance
15 that you would protect the health care insurance
16 for Tier I employees.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. I'm not
18 relating to what's specific about Tier I but
19 there is a concern that the employees be
20 protected and enhanced, and our position has
21 been just that.
22 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you so
23 much.
6243
1 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Masiello.
3 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 Senator, if you will yield to a
6 question or two or three?
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
8 President.
9 SENATOR MASIELLO: Senator Bruno,
10 I recognize 4601 is an attempt to enhance the
11 zones through specific tax credits, especially
12 Tier I employees and Tier II employees. But in
13 light of the state's fiscal problems, could we
14 afford to do this? Is this going to have any
15 adverse effect on our ability financially to
16 balance our budget?
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, Senator, I
18 have had a concern, as I know you have and many
19 of our colleagues here, about creating
20 incentives for business in this state, to create
21 a favorable business climate. And we feel that
22 through the incentives that are in this
23 legislation -- and you're right, the immediate
6244
1 impact is an estimated cost of $10 million. But
2 when I say "cost," I could substitute
3 "investment."
4 If we invest these dollars in
5 these depressed areas, we get people off
6 unemployment, out of welfare, you upgrade the
7 properties, you create additional taxes from
8 profitable companies, so that that investment
9 returns hopefully ten-fold in an ongoing way.
10 But what's even more important,
11 Senator, and I think you especially will relate,
12 to the area that you represent, helps people
13 gain some dignity in that they are gainfully
14 employed rather than on the public dole. There
15 are too many people in too many depressed areas
16 in this state, unemployment 8, 9 and 10 percent,
17 that suffer the consequences of that
18 unemployment.
19 So, sure, there is an initial
20 investment in this. Can we afford it? I think
21 absolutely we can afford it because we will get
22 a return on our investment.
23 SENATOR MASIELLO: Would you
6245
1 yield to another question, Senator?
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
3 SENATOR MASIELLO: In this
4 legislation, we talk about offering wage tax
5 credits, investment tax credits, a whole host of
6 other types of incentives, so to speak, that
7 would help stimulate the job market and create
8 jobs. And initially, you know, we want to get
9 these businesses involved in these new zones,
10 and I understand the concept.
11 But, also, they are going to reap
12 some benefits. They are going to be able to
13 generate revenues and profits. Certainly that's
14 what they are in the business for. However,
15 what are we getting in return as far as the
16 kinds of jobs and the salary structure and the
17 benefit structure that people need to be, quote,
18 using your own term, "gainfully employed"?
19 Are there any thresholds of job
20 salaries or things like that that we have in the
21 bill or we could put in the bill that would
22 ensure that people would be making a meaningful
23 wage to support themselves and their family?
6246
1 Oftentimes, we create jobs where
2 the employer is getting a maximum benefit and
3 the employee is making 4.50, five bucks an hour
4 or six bucks an hour, not that those are bad
5 wages but, in many cases, Senator, they are not
6 sufficient enough for a person to support his or
7 her family.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, we voted
9 in this chamber to establish the law that
10 created the economic development zones in the
11 first place. All of the things -- there are
12 nineteen in existence today. All of the things
13 that you are referring to are in that covering
14 legislation. So all that we are doing, if
15 anything, is enhancing what is already there to
16 help these people in these depressed, deprived
17 areas, with health insurance, addressing the
18 minimum wages that are there in present law, the
19 benefits that must accrue, a whole list of
20 criteria.
21 So the intent really is to expand
22 and enhance an existing program because, as you
23 know, Senator, we in New York have lost 43
6247
1 percent of all of the jobs lost in this country
2 in the last several years. So this is an
3 attempt to do something very positive to help to
4 get some of those people back to work.
5 SENATOR MASIELLO: Senator, I
6 hope and I want to do something very positive.
7 But, here again, I don't want to create a
8 situation where you have businesses or industry
9 reaping all the benefits in return for jobs that
10 pay very little monies or have very little
11 fringe benefits.
12 Now, did I hear you correctly -
13 and just a point of clarification. What is the
14 situation with health care benefits? Will they
15 or will they not be part of the package?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: There is a
17 formula, in that, the wage tax credits are
18 increased as the benefit package or health
19 insurance is enhanced.
20 Now, Senator, if you have studied
21 this bill or at least you have certainly studied
22 parts of it, you know that it's a 36-page bill.
23 If you or anyone else is interested, we have
6248
1 done an analysis of this bill in great detail.
2 We have done a comparison of where we are with
3 the Governor, very detailed.
4 I think that if you look at this
5 very closely that you will see this expands and
6 enhances an existing program. When you talk
7 about the costs that you are relating to, I
8 think about them as investments. Do businesses
9 prosper by the incentives? I sure hope so
10 because that's what we're trying to accomplish.
11 You know and I know that
12 businesses will not go into some of the areas in
13 your district, into New York City, especially.
14 They won't locate there. They just don't and
15 won't.
16 So what do we do? Do we watch the
17 real estate deteriorate to zero? Do we watch
18 people move out of the area? Do we watch them
19 stay on welfare and unemployment, or do we do
20 some positive things? We and, to the credit of
21 the Governor, he has tried to move forward with
22 a positive program.
23 So I guess I have a little
6249
1 trouble understanding where all of the
2 nitpicking, if I can use that term, comes from
3 when you already have a program with economic
4 development zones. Should there be
5 accountability? Absolutely.
6 What have we done in this
7 legislation? We have increased the
8 accountability. We have set criteria, goals,
9 objectives, and increased the accountability so
10 that the companies that get the benefits are
11 held accountable so that they truly provide the
12 benefits to the unemployed.
13 SENATOR MASIELLO: Is this an
14 extension, Senator, of the existing enterprise
15 zone legislation that we have or program?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
17 SENATOR MASIELLO: The same
18 program we have now your bill is an extension of
19 that.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: It enhances.
21 SENATOR MASIELLO: It enhances?
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. It adds, we
23 think, some benefits to the public. Yes.
6250
1 SENATOR MASIELLO: One other
2 question. I wish I could -- I haven't had time
3 to read the bill in its entirety, but is there
4 -- one other thing that concerns me is,
5 oftentimes, we create a situation like this
6 where you have these incentives and we need to
7 be doing that, but are there any safeguards in
8 the bill that would prevent a business from
9 relocating from one part of a city or one part
10 of a county or one part of the state into
11 enterprise zones to reap these kinds of benefits
12 and, therefore, causing job loss or other
13 problems some place else?
14 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator,
15 there are safeguards. And you are absolutely
16 correct in that we are not serving a public
17 benefit if we allow people to just move from one
18 area to another because they can get better
19 breaks. There are safeguards in this
20 legislation. Very specifically, if a business
21 is going to move from one municipality to
22 another, for any of these benefits to occur,
23 there has to be agreement by the two
6251
1 municipalities, the one that's leaving and the
2 one that's accepting that business.
3 So you're right to be concerned,
4 and we have addressed that in this legislation.
5 SENATOR MASIELLO: The reason for
6 my questions, Senator, I think we have to be
7 doing more job creation, obviously. I represent
8 an inner city. I represent a city that has high
9 poverty, high crime, a whole host of problems
10 that maybe many of us are familiar with. And
11 day in and day out when I'm back home, the first
12 question asked me is I need a job; where can I
13 find a job. And the economy has a tremendous
14 impact on crime. It has a tremendous impact on
15 a whole host of social and domestic issues that
16 we have to deal with as legislators or our
17 constituents have to deal with.
18 So I'm in favor of trying to
19 provide those kinds of incentives for cities for
20 companies to locate in, especially inner cities,
21 and we're going to have to provide those kinds
22 of incentives, but I want to do this right. I
23 want to make sure that it's a win-win situation
6252
1 for both sides, not just the employers but the
2 employees, and it's very, very important that
3 men and women who get jobs have an opportunity
4 to make a meaningful wage, have an opportunity
5 to have some benefits to protect them and their
6 families, and that's really where I'm coming
7 from in this discussion.
8 And all too often, I've heard
9 horror stories, especially from Senator
10 Leichter, and others, about a whole host of
11 benefits that we have given to business and
12 industry, and we've gotten very little in
13 return.
14 So that's the reason why I am
15 asking these questions, and perhaps I have to
16 look further into your bill and compare it more
17 closely to what the other -- the other house to
18 find out whether or not one is better than the
19 other.
20 But I'm concerned because I have
21 a constituency that can't wait any longer, that
22 is desperate, that wants to go back to work, and
23 I want to make sure that when we go back home
6253
1 this week end or next week or whenever it is,
2 that we have a bill that's actually going to
3 work, that's actually going to produce
4 meaningful jobs for people.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, if I can
6 respond. I thank you for your comments and your
7 observations and your questions, because I know
8 they are very well intended.
9 And I will just conclude this in
10 that we are in exactly the same place. That's
11 exactly our intent in this legislation, not to
12 have businesses move into areas and rip off the
13 public but to create something very meaningful.
14 Because you're right, the most depressing,
15 distressing thing is to have people unemployed
16 with no jobs. So that's the purpose of this,
17 and we're trying to be very careful in drafting
18 this that we meet the objectives as you have
19 outlined them.
20 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber.
22 SENATOR GALIBER: Just a couple
23 of quick questions.
6254
1 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
2 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, are
3 there any sanctions involved where businesses
4 take the benefits and where they reach the
5 maximum and they move out? Whether we have a
6 receiver city, certainly they are going to build
7 their economy. We have no problem receiving
8 them. Are there any sanctions for those persons
9 who -
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator -
11 SENATOR GALIBER: -- come in and
12 sort of just take -
13 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, there are
14 in this.
15 SENATOR GALIBER: -- without
16 giving anything back?
17 SENATOR BRUNO: As you know,
18 there are ongoing benefits for periods of time
19 when you are located in a zone. The businesses
20 will have to report periodically as to what they
21 are doing, who they are employing, what the
22 benefit packages are. And based on whether or
23 not they meet certain criteria will be made the
6255
1 determination on whether or not their benefits
2 continue.
3 So there will be a great
4 incentive for businesses to make sure that they
5 are treating their employees very fairly,
6 because if they are not they are going to lose
7 the benefits of having been in an EDZ zone.
8 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Is there
9 anything in your bill that spells that out or is
10 that the intent? Which, of course, often our
11 intent is lost by the wayside by the time a bill
12 is passed and becomes law, you read it and you
13 look at it from a practical standpoint, "This is
14 not my bill; that is not what I intended."
15 And the reason I ask that,
16 Senator, is because no one is more sensitized to
17 economic development, and I think most of the
18 folks in this chamber, very frankly, and for
19 someone who supported the enterprise zones on a
20 federal level for a number of years when there
21 was a -- I like to say affectionately a
22 Garcia-Kemp bill. I guess that has to do with
23 my political discipline. But it was a bill
6256
1 which was the answer to a very conservative
2 Republican administration. The Heritage
3 Foundation said so, "This is for God, country
4 and a strong defense," and there was a lot of
5 objection to it.
6 The principal objection to
7 enterprise zones was the fact that there would
8 be people -- business folks would come in and
9 reap the benefit and then move out. And the
10 same concern is when we modified that and came
11 up with the domestic zones that have been in
12 existence for some time.
13 So those of us who are sensitized
14 about a good solid bill coming out are not
15 opposed to the intent of the bill. What we are
16 concerned with is in the enterprise zones is
17 that they're all incentives, that there are not
18 sanctions for those persons who come in and
19 capitalize to the fullest extent and then move
20 out, and when they move out, usually the area
21 that they leave was in worse condition than it
22 was before.
23 And especially since you say
6257
1 let's invest in the future, and the dollar
2 amount is what we're investing for the future.
3 But if we are investing with unscrupulous
4 business persons who come in to capitalize on
5 the benefits and then move out and there's no
6 sanctions at all, then this is a concern that we
7 definitely have.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, I share
9 that concern, and I can only answer you in that
10 we feel that they have been addressed, in that,
11 if the business doesn't meet criteria by their
12 reporting, number one, they lost incentives that
13 got them there in the first place. They lost
14 them.
15 SENATOR GALIBER: Fine.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Secondly, if they
17 have been fraudulent in any way, then they are
18 punishable by the law for that fraudulent
19 behavior.
20 SENATOR GALIBER: But there's got
21 to be something -- I don't want to get
22 argumentative with you about it even in the
23 course of so-called debate, but there is an in
6258
1 between category, not necessarily defrauding
2 where there's a criminal sanction involved.
3 Just somewhere in between they are doing the
4 bare minimum to reach a criteria which would
5 make them eligible to stay there, and you wake
6 up one morning and they have gotten everything
7 out, and they do not come in the fraud category
8 but they are gone, and the community is worse
9 off than they were before.
10 Because I'm not impressed, very
11 frankly, with the McDonald's wages that are in
12 there very frankly. And that's what it is,
13 McDonald wages. What happens to that person?
14 That's a big, big issue. That's why the
15 enterprise zones on a federal level -- one of
16 the main reasons why there was a serious
17 objection on this very point.
18 And though you say you have
19 addressed it -- I know you would like to, and
20 there may, very frankly, Senator, be no answer
21 for it at this particular point in time except
22 we've got this and we'll keep working at it.
23 But my concern is, where are the
6259
1 sanctions for those unscrupulous persons who
2 come in the community? For example, Senator, we
3 have at the present time DOT is giving property
4 away, in my judgment, in some of the same areas
5 that you make reference to. Part of the area is
6 in a domestic zone in Bronx County. They have
7 some ninety acres of rail land there. DOT is
8 negotiating long-term leases. And when we
9 figure it out, it's about 25 cents or so or $25
10 or something less per acre. They are giving the
11 property away and ruining the potential to bring
12 back some of those 600,000 manufacturing jobs
13 that we lost in the '70s. So we're doing these
14 kinds of crazy things, and DOT is sanctioning
15 it.
16 We have a bill which we think is
17 going to come up where they want to do the same
18 thing in extending a tennis area out in Queens
19 where they are all but giving the property
20 away.
21 So built into these enterprise
22 zones, though our intentions are good, these
23 leases that we have and the giving away of the
6260
1 property, the primary beneficiaries are those
2 persons that we are putting in business and the
3 third, fourth, perhaps fifth category of
4 beneficiary are the people that we are all
5 concerned with, whether it's health, jobs, et
6 cetera.
7 So when we debate this, pass the
8 one-house notion, which is a reality, but there
9 are those of us who are sincerely concerned that
10 this is a giant step in the right direction but
11 we seem hesitant, if you will, about bringing
12 down sanctions on those persons who are
13 capitalizing, if you will.
14 These leases that exist, some of
15 them do, some of them don't, but we're giving
16 property away. As I said before, the tennis
17 notion will be coming up. So we're giving
18 property away, and somebody says, "Later on
19 we'll deal with it. We'll work it out in some
20 kind of way."
21 And the same thing is happening
22 in some of these domestic seasons. These folks
23 are getting the benefit of it and just moving
6261
1 out. Senator, maybe there is no answer.
2 I just wanted to put that on the
3 record because I know -- whether it's a
4 one-house bill know where your intentions are.
5 One last question which is
6 indirectly related. Could you tell me why they
7 have not expanded or if you can't say why they
8 have not expanded some of the domestic zones,
9 are you in favor of expanding them? In other
10 words, we have 18 or 19 zones.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: I had a piece
13 of legislation with one to two across the street
14 which will include, logically, a large Bronx
15 terminal market in the Bronx County, a large
16 market. It just went across 149th Street, which
17 means nothing to you except that it's a few
18 blocks from Yankee Stadium, which might mean
19 something to you. Couldn't do it. It's my
20 understanding that there's been some opposition
21 to extending the zones. You answer.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Maybe it's in
23 recognition of your experience and others, but
6262
1 we expanded the zones from one mile to two miles
2 in this legislation, hopefully to encompass a
3 large enough area to take in just the kind of
4 situation that you are referring to. This
5 doubles the size of the zone potentially.
6 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, any time
7 I say it's a one-house bill, there's another
8 bill. Does the other bill, if you know -
9 because I'm sure you have negotiated up to this
10 particular point. Is there -
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, this may
12 be helpful. The Governor's bill agrees with us
13 to take it to two miles instead of one, and
14 that's one of the things that we are negotiating
15 with the Assembly. So I -
16 SENATOR GALIBER: Would it be
17 fair to say the Assembly bill is restricting
18 present boundary lines with no extension, if you
19 know?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: They have no bill
21 specifically, but that's one of the areas that
22 we will be relating in terms of trying to move
23 this legislation.
6263
1 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: All right? Thank
4 you.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
6 section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
13 passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1336, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number
16 4782A, an act to amend the State Finance Law.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is
18 requested. Senator Bruno.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Ladies and
20 gentlemen. We have been talking about economic
21 development, creation of jobs. This legislation
22 tries to do that in an area that is very
23 depressed in the agricultural area of this
6264
1 state. This bill creates a sports horse
2 development fund, and it sets aside -- it
3 invests $150,000 in this development fund for
4 sport horses to be matched by the Sport Horse
5 Association of New York State 2 for 1. For
6 every two dollars that the association puts in
7 or raises, the state matches it with one
8 dollar.
9 The purpose will be for
10 sanctioned sport horsing events that awards will
11 be made. The awards made, hopefully, will
12 create an incentive for the breeding, raising,
13 keeping in this state, of sports horses.
14 When sport horses are here in
15 this state, they need a place to live, like a
16 stable, and that usually takes lumber and
17 metal. They also like to eat and that takes
18 oats and hay. They also like a lot of attention
19 and that takes grooms and handlers, and what
20 we're talking about is creating jobs, at the
21 same time that we encourage and enhance an
22 industry that's very desirable for New York
23 State.
6265
1 Other states have created funds
2 like this. Pennsylvania for one, one of our
3 neighbors. So I am encouraging you to be
4 supportive. I'm hopeful that this can become
5 law, because I really think it will help enhance
6 a very depressed area, the raising of horses in
7 this state, competition with horses in this
8 state, and all of the benefits that accrue to an
9 industry that grows and develops.
10 Thank you.
11 (Whereupon, Senator Libous was in
12 the chair. )
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
14 Dollinger.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
16 President. If Senator Bruno would just yield to
17 a couple of quick questions.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
19 Bruno, would you yield to Senator Dollinger?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm just
22 intrigued by where these funds end up going.
23 I've read the statute -- the proposed bill, and
6266
1 it says that the money will be deposited in the
2 fund for purposes of disbursement as matching
3 funds for the New York State Sport Horse
4 Association prize awards. Is this money going
5 to be given to someone for a prize when they
6 produce the Sport Horse of the Year or
7 something?
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Could be,
9 Senator. There is a governing board of the
10 Sport Horse Association, you know, directors,
11 that kind of thing. The majority of those
12 directors will designate functions where there
13 will be prizes for those particular functions.
14 For instance, there might be an elimination in a
15 jumping class for horses, and the championships
16 might be a sanctioned event where horses will
17 come to a site from all over the state that have
18 been competing, and the prize for first place
19 might be 3,000, 5,000; second place, 2,000; and
20 those judgments will be made by that board.
21 Now, so as not to create a
22 bureaucracy here, this will be administered by
23 Tax and Finance. And before any checks are
6267
1 disbursed, they would be audited by the
2 Comptroller's office to make sure that whatever
3 checks are disbursed have met the criteria of
4 that board.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So
6 this is going to go -- the way we create jobs
7 under this -- again through you, Mr. President
8 -- is by enhancing the prize pool? Is that -
9 that's a fair statement?
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, by
11 encouraging people to show horses, show
12 competitive horses, raise them, it can be a -
13 it's a big business in some states. We have
14 spent millions of dollars in this state,
15 invested them. We're having trouble with NYRA
16 now. The harness tracks with standardbred
17 horses are all in trouble because of you name
18 it.
19 So what happens now with many of
20 those horses that can't race or for people that
21 have breeding farms, they are not breeding or
22 raising race horses, many of them. Consequently
23 the farms go in disrepair, unemployment
6268
1 increases in those areas. People lose their
2 jobs.
3 So what I'm trying to do and we
4 are trying to do with the people that I have
5 heard from is create another incentive to raise
6 horses here in this state, to make it a little
7 bit more worthwhile. And if you were raising a
8 race horse, for instance, that went to the
9 Finger Lakes and that horse was not competitive,
10 you might then like to have that horse trained
11 to jump if it stayed healthy.
12 Now, it would be a great
13 incentive for you instead of shipping a horse to
14 a killer or seeing the horse go out of state,
15 which happens all the time to the race horses,
16 you might bring him back and house that horse
17 and train the horse. Now, if you do that,
18 again, you got to feed the horse, you got to
19 groom the horse. You know, you are creating
20 jobs.
21 So that's really all that this is
22 about. It's not the biggest deal in the world,
23 but we're trying to help an industry that needs
6269
1 a lot of help. That's all.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
3 Mr. President. One more question of Senator
4 Bruno.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
6 Bruno, would you yield for one more question?
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He
10 will, Senator Dollinger.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You said,
12 Senator, that Pennsylvania has a similar fund.
13 Do they create the incentive by putting it into
14 the prize pool? They put the money in the prize
15 pool as an incentive?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Several states
17 have taken different approaches to how they
18 create the incentive, some giving credits, you
19 know, for the investments and that kind of
20 thing. I believe this is as close to
21 Pennsylvania as any of the other states, but I
22 can't answer that without looking it up as to
23 whether they are doing it exactly this way,
6270
1 Senator.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess the
3 final question, Mr. President, just so again I
4 understand this. Just through you to Senator
5 Bruno. This is really for those horses that are
6 not competitive as thoroughbreds or
7 standardbreds, and they would be used in
8 teaching children how to jump, how to ride, and
9 then they would be shown, is that correct?
10 My question -- I don't want to be
11 unfair. Is this the also-rans? This is the end
12 of the bettor pool -
13 SENATOR BRUNO: No.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- of the
15 horse that finishes -
16 SENATOR BRUNO: No, Senator.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- tenth or
18 eleventh or twelfth out of twelve, ends up as a
19 prize some place else?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: It could be that
21 horse, Senator, but I don't want to focus on
22 that, because sports horses are bred and raised
23 as sport horses, primarily, not as race horses.
6271
1 But I will say that if people were breeding and
2 raising race horses that weren't competitive,
3 this would be an alternative for them, but
4 that's not the main thrust of this legislation.
5 There are farms, there are people
6 who compete now. They raise horses, breed them
7 just for sport. That's jumping, hunter class,
8 dressage. So that this sports association will
9 make a judgment on which functions around the
10 state would be eligible for these prices. Okay?
11 And then they would submit that to the
12 Commissioner of Taxation, audited by the
13 Comptroller, and then if you have horses that
14 are of the quality that can compete, you can
15 compete for those prices. People that raise
16 horses for any purpose other than a few of the
17 elite don't make any money. It's a terrible
18 expense to be in the horse business in this
19 state.
20 We created the breeding fund for
21 thoroughbreds and for standardbreds. Having
22 done that, we became the fourth largest breeding
23 state in the United States over the years, which
6272
1 I think is a credit to anyone that was involved
2 in the creation of those funds.
3 Now, unfortunately, given the
4 condition of racing, as I indicated, it's going
5 downhill. I really believe that we have to
6 address what is going on in this state as
7 relates to the horse industry, the horse
8 business, whether it's racing or sport.
9 So I see it as economic
10 development. The creation of jobs. It's
11 healthy, it's beneficial. There's not a lot of
12 smoke, you know, from a mill. It's just good
13 business, and it helps farmers, probably, more
14 than any other single group in this state.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
16 President, on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
18 Dollinger on the bill.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I really
20 hadn't intended to vote against this bill, but I
21 guess what I hear being said is that we have a
22 highly competitive marketplace in the horse
23 industry, and we have horses that aren't able to
6273
1 compete in that highly competitive marketplace,
2 and what we'll do is we'll take the also-rans in
3 the field and we'll put them in a special
4 category and try to encourage people that if
5 they don't make it as a racer or as a
6 thoroughbred or as a standardbred, they will
7 make it in some other context.
8 And I guess what bothers me is
9 that we seem to artificially again add
10 government subsidy to a business that isn't a
11 thoroughbred business and it isn't a standard
12 bred business. It's a highly competitive field,
13 an enormously competitive field. Great benefits
14 when you win; great disappointment when you
15 lose; and yet we're going to put $150,000 into a
16 prize fund to somehow encourage this sort of
17 tertiary horse market to continue to exist.
18 I'm not so sure it will have the
19 benefits. I agree with Senator Bruno that there
20 is a need to promote jobs, but this seems to me
21 to be a long ways away. I think that this is
22 not win, place or show. This is really the tail
23 end of the field of economic development.
6274
1 And to use a sore pun, Mr.
2 President, I would vote neigh.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
4 Stachowski.
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I would like
6 to speak on the bill, but before I do, would
7 Senator Bruno yield to a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I'm
9 sure he would. Senator Bruno, would you yield?
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
11 President.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator,
13 doesn't this count -- this kind of fund,
14 wouldn't it deal with all the various breeds of
15 horses that make up the -- for example the horse
16 competitions that take place at the New York
17 State Fair and at the fairgrounds? And if I'm
18 not mistaken in Ohio is a big state fair, and
19 those are the kinds of horses you were talking
20 about for the most part? I wish I could remember
21 the various breeds. I'm familiar with them, and
22 in my remarks I'll tell you why I am.
23 Is that basically what you're
6275
1 talking about?
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. We're
3 addressing those horses specifically that do
4 compete at the fair and at horse shows.
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Not at the
7 racetracks. Horse shows.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Right.
9 Thank you, Senator Bruno.
10 On the bill. I would like to
11 rise and support the bill because in Erie
12 County, in the part of my district that is now
13 in Senator Volker's district, the Erie County
14 Fairgrounds is located. And, for years, we were
15 trying to help them build an agri-center
16 building, try to get the Agriculture Department
17 to give them some aid. And eventually, they got
18 themselves in a position to build it on their
19 own. And one of the reasons they wanted to
20 build this agricultural center was because the
21 horsemen from these various breeds -- and it's
22 multiple breeds, and they all have their own
23 competitions, not necessarily together.
6276
1 Sometimes by individual breed as well as in
2 certain categories.
3 And it's a very big industry, and
4 their major complaint was -- in western New York
5 was that the farthest center west in New York
6 State was Syracuse, and that wasn't far enough
7 west for them. And if they could do something
8 in Erie County, they would have another place
9 closer than when they would have to go all the
10 way to Ohio to take part in some of these large
11 shows. And the people, actually, from eastern
12 Ohio would just as soon come -- some of them
13 would like to come to New York to compete, and
14 also horsemen from Pennsylvania.
15 So I think this bill is a very
16 good bill. It's a large industry. I think
17 since the industry is putting up two to one to
18 this fund, I think it's a great idea. Having
19 become familiar with these various horse people
20 because of that agri-center, I'm glad to see
21 this bill.
22 I'm happy to get up and support
23 it, and I hope that everyone will vote in favor
6277
1 of it.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
3 Solomon.
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr.
5 President. Will Senator Bruno yield, Mr.
6 President?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
8 Bruno, would you yield to Senator Solomon?
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He
12 will, Senator Solomon.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, you
14 just described all the high-tech jobs that will
15 be developed and retained with the passage of
16 this bill. I'm just curious, Senator, does a
17 groom earn minimum wage or someone who bales
18 hay, or are they allowed to be paid below
19 minimum wage?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, they do,
21 Senator.
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: They earn
23 minimum wage?
6278
1 SENATOR BRUNO: To my knowledge,
2 yes. Oh, absolutely.
3 SENATOR SOLOMON: How many of
4 these jobs do you anticipate being maintained or
5 retained as the result of this?
6 SENATOR BRUNO: I guess your
7 guess would be as good as mine, Senator, but it
8 stands to reason that if there are more horses,
9 more animals, as I have described, they need to
10 be housed, they need to be fed, they need to be
11 handled, they need to be trained. So if there
12 are more of them, there will be more jobs. How
13 many more? That depends on the success of the
14 industry and this program.
15 SENATOR SOLOMON: No more
16 questions. Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
18 Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: I rise to
20 support Senator Bruno's bill because when I had
21 the Racing Committee, let me just tell you I was
22 astounded to find out how labor-intensive the
23 horse business is.
6279
1 And these are people, yes,
2 Senator Solomon, that have low-paying jobs, but
3 they are dedicated people that love horses.
4 They are a group that have been hurt
5 tremendously by the decline in the racing
6 business.
7 I think this is a bill that will
8 bring a great deal of economic benefit to a
9 large segment of that industry, employees,
10 little people with Roosevelt Raceway closing and
11 quite a few other things. Yes, we have become
12 as a result of the breeding fund, as Senator
13 Bruno spoke of, a major horse raising state
14 "raising", I'm saying, not racing.
15 And I think a piece of
16 legislation like this can reap tremendous
17 economic benefits to a large segment of our
18 population that needs help.
19 It's a good bill. I would urge
20 that everybody would support it.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
22 the last section.
23 Senator Dollinger.
6280
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill.
2 In response to Senator Farley, Mr. President, I
3 guess I see some economic benefit of this. The
4 question is should we be jumping into this
5 marketplace with $150,000 for an industry that
6 according to Senator Bruno doesn't seem to be
7 able to make it on its own?
8 We're again going into the
9 marketplace. We're again going to subsidize
10 another form of business in this state. And my
11 question is it doesn't seem to be able to
12 survive on its own. I mean will this continued,
13 this $150,000 appropriation continue on into the
14 future and become a half a million or a million
15 dollars?
16 At what point does government
17 back out of this and say this is an industry
18 that should be able to stand on its own four
19 legs?
20 SENATOR FARLEY: If I might
21 answer that, Mr. President?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
23 Farley.
6281
1 SENATOR FARLEY: I think what
2 Senator Bruno is attempting to do, and I don't
3 wish to speak for him, is open up another avenue
4 in this horse racing/raising business or horse
5 breeding business and provide opportunities for
6 a number of people that have been displaced
7 because of a decline in the racing industry, and
8 I think we're trying to put people to work whose
9 skills are directed towards that area, and I
10 think it's a terrific economic opportunity.
11 I really don't see a down side of
12 it, and particularly with the industry coming in
13 and supporting it, as Senator Stachowski has
14 brought up. I truly think it's a bill that
15 merits our support.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays
6282
1 one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Leichter.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have
6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
7 on Calendar 1333.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1333,
9 Senator Leichter in the negative, without
10 objection.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1339, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
13 Assembly Bill Number 7832, Real Property Tax
14 Law, in relation to exemption of certain private
15 dwellings.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
17 Marchi, explanation is requested.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
19 second.
20 Last section.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6283
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1347, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
10 5947, an act to amend the Public Health Law and
11 the Environmental Conservation Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
13 Johnson, explanation is requested.
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
15 this bill sets forth regulations to ameliorate
16 pollution of the marine waters by requiring
17 pump-out stations for certain marine vessels,
18 preventing discharge of untreated, partially
19 treated sewage.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Excuse
21 me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.
22 Could we have a little order in
23 the chamber, please. Sergeant, could we keep
6284
1 that back door closed. We seem to have a little
2 bit of commotion when Senator Johnson is
3 speaking, and the stenographer cannot pick up
4 what he is saying.
5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Sorry that was
6 intended to be laid aside earlier, for the day.
7 We're waiting for amendments on that bill. Is
8 that the right bill, 1347?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1347.
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, I'm sorry
11 if we didn't get the message correct earlier.
12 It's not to be called up today, yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: That
14 bill is laid aside for the day?
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1354.
17 The Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1354, substituted earlier today, by member of
20 the Assembly Murtaugh, Assembly Bill Number
21 5032, Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Farley
23 yield to a question?
6285
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
2 Farley, will you yield to Senator Gold?
3 SENATOR FARLEY: I would be
4 delighted.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, tell me
6 another one.
7 Senator, as you may know, it's no
8 secret, I have no sympathy whatsoever for young
9 people who go in and create problems for
10 business people who are trying to make an honest
11 living, and so I would have ordinarily great
12 sympathy for what you are trying to do here.
13 But it was explained to us that
14 under existing law there can only be I believe a
15 $50 fine, is that correct?
16 SENATOR FARLEY: And completion
17 of an alcohol awareness program.
18 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
19 Senator, this is my question.
20 SENATOR FARLEY: Or both.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. This is my
22 question. I think your idea is a good idea, but
23 even under existing law, do you have any idea
6286
1 how many young people are being subjected to
2 these fines and the programs?
3 What I'm hearing in the streets,
4 Senator, and I'm hoping I'm wrong, is that even
5 the existing law is just not being applied. I
6 mean the young people are not being fined the
7 $50, they are not being made to go to the
8 programs, and that the police are still
9 harassing the store owners, the 7-Eleven owners,
10 the bar owners and that -- you know, we are just
11 not getting the enforcement under the existing
12 law. Why would we think we're going to get
13 better enforcement under this law?
14 SENATOR FARLEY: I think your
15 point is well taken, and I totally agree with
16 you on that, but all this does is to give the
17 discretion to the judge to provide up to 30
18 hours community service. Maybe if these
19 youngsters -- somebody under 21 being a
20 youngster. I didn't support that bill. I
21 thought 19 was a good age, incidentally, not
22 21. Gives them the alternative of doing up to
23 30 hours of community service.
6287
1 Maybe -- maybe and hopefully that
2 the courts will see the benefit of community
3 service and that things can be done for society
4 by these people breaking the law, and maybe
5 start enforcing that penalty. I cannot say.
6 I have a feeling very deeply that
7 any law that is not obeyed is a bad law. That's
8 why the 55 mile an hour speed limit on the
9 Thruway -- Hi, Senator Levy -- I think is a law
10 that is being flaunted, and I would like to see
11 that one changed, too.
12 But anyway, this is an additional
13 opportunity for the courts to provide some
14 community service by people who are violating
15 the law.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. On the
17 bill, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
19 Gold on the bill.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I
21 want to commend Senator Farley. I think this
22 really is a good idea.
23 But, you know, we have had many,
6288
1 many debates on many, many issues where the
2 point has been made that if we don't get to the
3 penalty stages we voted, then what's the sense
4 anyway? Capital punishment is certainly not a
5 deterrent in any state that has capital
6 punishment where nobody gets executed. That's
7 one point that's always made.
8 In this state, we have a major,
9 major problem, and Senator Farley is recognizing
10 part of the problem. I don't know how we get to
11 the other part, Senator. Maybe it's taking the
12 minutes of this debate and sending them to the
13 police departments around the state.
14 But I know of too many
15 instances. You know, the law of the state is
16 such that neither I or anyone in this chamber
17 can practice in front of the SLA, and of course
18 I don't. I know no one else does either. But I
19 have clients who are in the business, and I know
20 what's happening to them even though I don't
21 handle those matters.
22 And, unfortunately, with some of
23 the supermarkets, for example, a cop will go
6289
1 back in with a youngster who had purchased beer.
2 They'll give a summons to the supermarket.
3 Nothing happens to the youngster at all. As a
4 matter of fact, in a lot of these cases, the
5 youngster has false I.D. the cop is informed
6 that the youngster has false I.D., and the
7 cop takes no steps to confiscate the false
8 I.D.
9 The restaurants and bars are
10 running into the same problem, and we're not
11 talking about some terrible element in society.
12 We are talking about Senator Bruno's people.
13 We're talking about small businesses, people who
14 invest in this state and are decent law-abiding
15 citizens.
16 The people who own supermarkets
17 are decent law-abiding citizens, the people who
18 own 7-Elevens, the people who own family
19 restaurants, and we have a prejudicial
20 enforcement of these liquor laws when it comes
21 to this particular situation.
22 And while I pride myself in being
23 a liberal, and I understand the problems of -
6290
1 social problems of this group and that group and
2 the other group, I have no sympathy for young
3 people who would go in and jeopardize what is in
4 many cases a lifetime investment made by people
5 to buy, either markets or bars or restaurants.
6 So, Senator Farley, I think it is
7 a good idea, but the biggest problem with your
8 bill is that we're dealing with the sentencing
9 stage and unless the police are enforcing the
10 laws to get these young people to the sentencing
11 stage, then none of these provisions mean
12 anything.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
14 Farley.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: Senator Gold, I
16 agree with you. But let's hope that the law
17 enforcement people see that as there is an
18 opportunity here for community service and maybe
19 start enforcing the law against, in my judgment
20 and yours, an offender that is not being
21 properly prosecuted.
22 I urge support of the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
6291
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1359, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
12 1109A, Environmental Conservation Law, the
13 Navigation Law and the State Finance Law.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator
15 Johnson yield to a question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
17 Johnson, would you yield to a question from
18 Senator Gold?
19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, there was
21 an EPL memo in opposition on the original print,
22 and I notice that we have in front of us an "A"
23 print. Does the "A" print take care of the
6292
1 criticisms made by EPL on the original print, do
2 you know?
3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, Senator,
4 we're not aware whether or not they are opposed
5 to the "A" print. Let me just read that memo,
6 Senator, and I'll try to see if we corrected it.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Johnson, I
8 don't have a memo in opposition on the "A"
9 print. It's only on the original print, as I
10 discussed with Senator Marino at great length.
11 But I was wondering whether or not in drafting
12 the "A" print, you know, you were trying to cure
13 some of their objections, or are their
14 objections something that are just different?
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, we're
16 trying to determine just what their objection
17 is.
18 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Do you
19 want to lay it aside a minute or two and come
20 back to it? How do you want to do it? Any way
21 you want to.
22 SENATOR JOHNSON: We might be
23 able to address it right away.
6293
1 My counsel advises me that we did
2 change the exemption language to which they were
3 opposed, and we think it satisfies their
4 concerns, but we don't have any definitive word
5 on that, but we think that we've addressed what
6 their concern was.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I noticed
8 that the -- just for the information of those on
9 this side of the aisle who might be interested.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Gold, for informational purposes.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
13 President. The department has a conditional
14 support memo on the original print. EPL had an
15 opposition on the original print. But one of
16 the great environmentalists of our time, Senator
17 Oppenheimer, is on the "A" print, so I assume
18 that the bill requires support.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
6294
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1361, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
8 1924, authorize Harold K. Warner to receive
9 credit for prior service.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Farley, an explanation is requested on 1361.
12 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, this
13 legislation authorizes Harold Warner, one of our
14 sergeant-at-arms here in the Senate to buy back
15 three years of his retirement. In 1977, Mr.
16 Warner had a position as assessor for the town
17 of Halfmoon in Saratoga County and,
18 subsequently, no provisions were made for
19 retirement benefits for this employee. While
20 working as a town assessor, he accumulated three
21 years of retirement credit. Mr. Warner has
22 contacted the retirement system back in
23 September of '89, requesting information
6295
1 regarding a buy-back, and he was informed that
2 the restrictions on crediting his previous
3 service, and these restrictions mandate that Mr.
4 Warner had to have been with the same employer
5 upon which his membership is based. This
6 legislation would allow Mr. Warner for a period
7 of one year to buy back three years. He bears
8 all the cost.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation
10 satisfactory.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 2,
19 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the
20 negative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6296
1 1362, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number
2 2138, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
3 Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Is
5 someone requesting an explanation on this bill?
6 Senator Gold, are you requesting an explanation?
7 SENATOR GOLD: I think Senator
8 Dollinger laid it aside.
9 On the other hand, last section.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1363, substituted earlier today, by member of
22 the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number
23 4225A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
6297
1 Law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
4 temporarily.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay
6 that bill aside temporarily.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1364, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
9 2623A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
12 Explanation.
13 Senator Present, should we lay
14 that aside temporarily?
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
16 for the day.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay
18 that bill aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1366, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 3335,
21 an act to amend the Insurance Law.
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation.
23 Senator Tully.
6298
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
2 Tully.
3 (There was no response. )
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
5 temporarily and come back to it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: That
7 bill will be laid aside temporarily.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1370, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number
10 4136, an act to amend the Tax Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1374, substituted earlier to day, by the
23 Assembly Committee on Rules -
6299
1 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
2 THE SECRETARY: -- Assembly Bill
3 Number 7710A, Education Law.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
6 temporarily.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay
8 that bill aside temporarily.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1375, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
11 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8292,
12 Eminent Domain Procedure Law.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
15 Mega, an explanation is requested.
16 SENATOR MEGA: This bill would
17 amend the Eminent Domain Law in a situation
18 where a piece of property is taken by eminent
19 domain and it's owner-occupied. Under existing
20 law, the owner would have to pay rent from the
21 time of the acquisition. What this bill does is
22 give them 90 days, three months before they
23 start paying rent, because in many situations
6300
1 there are mortgages on the property and it
2 becomes a problem for the owner that owns the
3 property. So it gives them a three-month grace
4 period before they have to pay rent.
5 This is submitted by the
6 Transportation Committee, and it seems to be the
7 fair thing to do as far as a residential owner
8 is concerned where a property is taken by
9 eminent domain.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield
11 to a question?
12 SENATOR MEGA: Sure.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Actually, Senator,
14 once it's taken by eminent domain, the owner
15 technically is a tenant; is that right?
16 SENATOR MEGA: Yes.
17 SENATOR GOLD: So this bill is, I
18 take it, your way of showing your sensitivity to
19 the problem of tenants.
20 SENATOR MEGA: Absolutely. This
21 is a people's bill.
22 SENATOR GOLD: No, there are a
23 lot of people. Some of them are homeowners.
6301
1 I'm just trying to zero in on the concept of
2 what we need in tenant legislation.
3 SENATOR MEGA: Well, this is a
4 bill that would help tenants, absolutely.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. And you want
6 to help tenants. I want to be able to judge
7 your feelings about tenants.
8 SENATOR MEGA: My record has
9 indicated clearly that where situations warrant,
10 I like to help tenants. And this is a situation
11 that warrants helping tenants.
12 SENATOR GOLD: I like that.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Shall
14 we read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
22 bill is passed.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
6302
1 Can we have calendar 1374, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
3 Secretary will read 1374.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1374, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7710A,
7 an act to amend the Education Law.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
10 Explanation requested. Senator Trunzo.
11 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President.
12 This bill sets up a procedure for the election
13 of a member, a retired teacher, to the New York
14 State Teachers Retirement System rather than
15 having up something whereby currently that
16 particular individual is appointed by the
17 retirement board. Currently, they are
18 appointed. A member of the retirement system
19 representing retired teachers is appointed by
20 the retirement board. This bill would permit
21 them to have a general election and elect their
22 own member to be on the teachers retirement
23 system board.
6303
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a
2 question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
4 Trunzo, will you yield?
5 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, my notes
7 show that we had a -- is it a similar bill to
8 this earlier this year?
9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Excuse me?
10 SENATOR GOLD: Wait a minute.
11 What does this mean? Last year we had a similar
12 bill?
13 SENATOR TRUNZO: We had a same
14 bill in 1992, yes, and we passed it in this
15 house.
16 SENATOR GOLD: I see that there
17 is a memorandum in support by NYSUT, but there
18 is a memorandum in opposition LaVernon Hanks
19 representing the New York State Retired Teachers
20 Association. Senator Galiber and Leichter and
21 Paterson voted no last year. But this
22 memorandum in opposition is on the original
23 print, and you are now at an "A" print. Can you
6304
1 tell us what the difference is? Is there
2 anything in the "a" print that would change the
3 issue as for as these two groups are concerned?
4 SENATOR TRUNZO: It just changed
5 the election to July instead of the original
6 date.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Just changed the
8 day.
9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Right.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1378, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
23 4944, Civil Rights Law.
6305
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Volker, I
2 believe Senator Galiber is going to request an
3 explanation.
4 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President.
5 Explanation.
6 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
7 First of all, I have also been asked to
8 pronounce what DNA technically means,
9 deoxyribonucleic acid. I just want to get that
10 on the record. That's not going to mean
11 anything to anybody, but that's what it is.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: So
13 noted, Senator Volker.
14 SENATOR VOLKER: Okay. Thank
15 you. DNA is actually derived from the human
16 body, and it's used for the purposes of
17 identification. In fact, let me just point out
18 that in today's paper, I believe it is, there
19 was an article about a person who nine years ago
20 was convicted of rape and murder and because of
21 DNA testing was released from prison because the
22 DNA apparently clearly showed that it was not
23 the person who had actually committed the
6306
1 crime. It was I believe a crime against a young
2 person.
3 What this bill does is -- it is,
4 by the way, a Governor's program bill. The
5 Governor and the Senate, very honestly, on this
6 have been I think pretty close on this issue.
7 We're not always that close on all issues, but
8 on this one we're pretty close.
9 We have been negotiating with the
10 Assembly for some time, and we continue to do
11 that, by the way, and we are hopeful that before
12 this year is out we will have an agreement that
13 would provide for the implementation of DNA
14 technology in the forensic setting.
15 Now, what does that mean? What
16 that means is that we are trying to set up a
17 data bank very similar to what is now in place
18 in DCJS for fingerprinting. Fingerprinting is
19 widely used in this state and this country and
20 throughout the world in identifying people.
21 DNA obviously is being used now
22 in court cases across this country. The
23 problem, though, is that it needs some
6307
1 regulation. And, very honestly, what this bill
2 does is, this bill would set up a process to
3 regulate, collect, and to handle DNA technology
4 so it can be used to its maximum potential in
5 this state.
6 The technology -- rather the
7 quality would be determined according to rules
8 implemented by the DCJS, which is the Department
9 of Criminal Justice Services, in conjunction
10 with the Health Department and would attempt to
11 gather as much information as possible.
12 There are exclusions, by the way,
13 in this bill, and there are confidentiality
14 provisions relating to the dissemination of
15 information. It is a Class A misdemeanor to
16 improperly disseminate information as far as DNA
17 is concerned.
18 It would set up, by the way, also
19 a -- I think it's now called a forensic science
20 review panel. The reason I say what it's called
21 now, it used to be called an advisory committee.
22 Now it's a forensic science panel which would
23 recommend on changes and the future of this
6308
1 technology as far as New York is concerned.
2 The effective date of the bill as
3 we have done in the past as we move on in
4 forensic science is June 4, 1994, and the reason
5 is to give the advisory committee, to give the
6 DCJS in conjunction with the Health Department
7 the time to set up the rules and regulations,
8 and so forth, and to develop this technology and
9 try to get the wrinkles out of it before it
10 would technically come into place.
11 Now, you should understand that,
12 then, these rules and regulations and the
13 determinations that are made would determine
14 private labs' ability to develop this sort of
15 technology and would make sure that the planning
16 and implementation and the testing that is done
17 is properly done and would assist in determining
18 criminal responsibility.
19 DNA probably is the most
20 important advance in the area of criminal
21 justice in the last decades. It frightens the
22 heck out of some defense attorneys, very
23 honestly, but it also by the way has the ability
6309
1 to not only help prosecutors but also to help
2 defense attorneys. Because as I just pointed
3 out, there are a number of cases, and I can cite
4 -- we have a whole batch of them where DNA has
5 been used to determine where people who were
6 thought to be guilty were actually innocent
7 because the type of testing that is done is a
8 very determined science and, if it's done
9 properly, can identify people extremely well.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Galiber.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator Volker,
13 would you yield for a question or two?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
15 Volker, would you yield?
16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
17 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, this
18 DNA process, is it an exact science at this
19 time? Is there any margin for error or is it
20 absolute?
21 And the reason I ask that is I
22 was troubled -- troubled is a poor word. I
23 wasn't troubled by it, but in the course of
6310
1 explaining the bill, you mentioned things about
2 "wrinkles, absolute, development stage." All
3 of these things would seem to be inconsistent
4 with something that is absolute, works every
5 time, no margin for error, et cetera.
6 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, what I
7 was referring to is the regulation of DNA
8 technology and testing. Properly done, DNA
9 testing is virtually unchallengeable. I don't
10 think there is anybody in the scientific area
11 that believes that DNA is not an absolute
12 identifier of a human person as in -- more than
13 a human person, but particularly a human person
14 in this case, obviously.
15 The issue really is to make sure
16 -- and I think it's being done now. I think
17 the one thing to keep in mind is the passage of
18 this bill is not going to mean that now you are
19 going to be able to use that. DNA is already
20 being used.
21 But the issue is the proper use
22 of DNA, proper testing, proper identification.
23 And I would be the first to admit to you the
6311
1 data bank is extremely important, because the
2 data bank like the data bank for fingerprinting
3 is an incredible potential source of identifying
4 people.
5 By the way, DNA is also used for
6 other than criminal justice, identifying bodies
7 that are found and things of that nature. I
8 think the answer to your question is that it is
9 an exact science, but what is not always exact
10 is the issue of the testing, and that's one of
11 the reasons we want to do this bill is because
12 we want to make sure that the tests that are
13 done are done properly and that we want to
14 balance off the necessity to do this with the
15 necessity that those tests are done right.
16 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. When you
17 say, Senator, "properly done," again we go into
18 an area which might lead one to believe that if
19 it's improperly done, there would probably be or
20 would be -- not probably, -- would be a
21 different result. Is that fair?
22 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, we are
23 human beings, and there is no absolute certainty
6312
1 in anything we do except for one thing. I say
2 to you, again, testing when properly done in the
3 DNA area is considered to be absolutely
4 conclusive.
5 Now, one of the things, of
6 course, that we're trying to do is -- and you,
7 Senator, as a very good defense attorney and a
8 person who knows very well how these types of
9 things work, know that a defense attorney faced
10 with a DNA situation is probably -- certainly in
11 the future and in cases now, is going to look to
12 his own DNA sampling to make sure that that
13 testing is done properly.
14 What we're trying to do in this
15 bill is set up the process to regulate labs that
16 do this sort of testing and to make sure that
17 that testing is done as perfectly as humanly
18 possible. And I think, frankly, in the DNA area
19 even more so than in fingerprinting the chances
20 of mistakes are very, very minute. Again I say,
21 making sure that the testing is done properly
22 that's what we're trying to do in this bill.
23 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Let me
6313
1 try one more time using another example,
2 fingerprinting. You know, the inference -
3 defense attorneys might be a little disturbed
4 about this. Defense attorneys are faced on a
5 case-to-case basis with fingerprints. We didn't
6 set up any regulatory or advisory board on
7 fingerprints. We just take the fingerprints,
8 and we send them in. And if they are valid -
9 and there has been no error up to date on
10 fingerprints. Would you say, Senator, if that's
11 a given, is the DNA testing as "positive" -- and
12 I put brackets around it -- as fingerprints?
13 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator,
14 fingerprinting -- one of the problems, by the
15 way, with fingerprinting was that it did just
16 evolve over the many years. And, frankly,
17 advisory committees and oversight really didn't
18 occur until the data banks were in place, and I
19 think you are aware that there were some
20 problems that came up in the fingerprinting area
21 that -- that we became aware of where there were
22 difficulties in how the prints were taken and
23 things of that nature. I won't get into it, but
6314
1 I would agree with you that fingerprinting did
2 evolve in a different way.
3 But one thing about DNA is that
4 DNA is a far more -- a far more valuable aid in
5 identifying someone than fingerprints; and,
6 therefore, it seems to me, and I think you would
7 agree, that it behooves us to make sure that the
8 implementation of this data bank and the testing
9 that is done is done as accurately and as
10 effectively as possible, and I think that's
11 really what the gist of this bill is, that we
12 are trying to make sure that the labs that do
13 the testing, the private labs and public labs,
14 follow the rules and are able to do it in a way
15 that gives us the best possible testing and will
16 categorically determine, in some cases, who the
17 person is that we're dealing with.
18 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator,
19 another portion of the bill that troubles me a
20 bit, does the bill -- did I read it correctly
21 when you said that there are persons -- you are
22 changing the Executive Law and the Department of
23 Health, Human Rights and adding another section
6315
1 to the Penal Law which would allow procedurally
2 for those persons who are found guilty -- I
3 forget the numbers now. I think it's probably
4 sex crimes and homicides. Would that be fair to
5 say?
6 SENATOR VOLKER: That's right.
7 Yes.
8 SENATOR GALIBER: As part of
9 their conviction, you are then mandating that
10 those persons be giving samples into this bank
11 that you are going to create. Is that correct?
12 SENATOR VOLKER: That is correct,
13 Senator.
14 SENATOR GALIBER: Why would you
15 want to add an additional part of this
16 sentencing process in a bill that you are
17 primarily concerned for identification purposes
18 and the fingerprinting?
19 And while you are answering that,
20 Senator, would you elaborate on it in terms of
21 the areas of conviction where there are
22 reversals or where some -- reversals because
23 there would be a conviction. One way you have a
6316
1 reversal if you had a conviction. In that
2 category, whether that person is entitled like
3 they would be with fingerprints to get those
4 samples out of this bank, not only on the local
5 level but on the federal level?
6 Now, the federal bank I
7 understand -- you correct me if I'm wrong. I
8 know very little about this. On the federal
9 level, they have been doing this to a point
10 where they have accumulated with the states -- I
11 think there's 10, 11, 12, 14, whatever states
12 that do this now. They have accumulated this
13 bank. Do those samples also, in answering the
14 question, on a reversal, are they destroyed or
15 what happens to them?
16 SENATOR VOLKER: First of all,
17 Senator, let me tell you that the theory behind
18 the use of -- you're trying to develop a data
19 bank. And the theory behind the use of the
20 murder and sex crimes was that these are the
21 kinds of crimes that are the types of crimes
22 that would best suit feeding into the data bank
23 and setting up such a data bank, and there is I
6317
1 think ample authority, constitutional authority,
2 to do this because we now do it in certain cases
3 -- obviously we fingerprint people anyways. So
4 it doesn't seem as if in establishing this
5 because of the serious nature of these crimes -
6 these are people that have been convicted,
7 obviously. So what we're saying is that one of
8 the things that you -- is in the public interest
9 is to feed the DNA of these people into the data
10 bank and to help establish that data bank.
11 As far as what happens if the
12 person is then found guilty, provided in the
13 bill -- I can't give you the line, but it's in
14 there -- Section 1635.40 -- is an expungement
15 provision. And I think, Senator, one of the
16 interesting things about this is this is going
17 to be in the computer; and, ironically, it will
18 be easier to expunge these out of the computer,
19 probably, than it is to expunge fingerprinting
20 now.
21 Now, you asked me the question of
22 the federal situation. We don't control the
23 federal situation. We do control the state
6318
1 situation. As far as the state is concerned,
2 should the conviction be reversed, then under
3 the law the DNA sample must be expunged and that
4 person's DNA sample must be taken out of the
5 bank, and there isn't much to be returned
6 because, under the computer situation, as you
7 know, it's merely a line in the computer. So
8 that's exactly what would happen.
9 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would
10 it be fair to say that we might have a similar
11 situation as we have in the fingerprints where
12 locally there is a reversal or a dismissal, and
13 they tell us that we're getting our fingerprints
14 back? I tell my clients that. Some
15 unscrupulous lawyers charge them to get them
16 back, and there are a few, not too many.
17 Shakespeare wasn't correct altogether. But the
18 fact of the matter is that they get their prints
19 back, but yet if they're arrested again, it
20 shows up on the NIIS sheet, or in the old days
21 used to call it the yellow sheet. Would it be
22 the same?
23 Your answer that we don't control
6319
1 the federal government, it's nice to say that,
2 but those fingerprints stay on file on the
3 federal level, in some instances on the state
4 level. So whether we have a computer doing it
5 or whether we mail them in and get a return,
6 shouldn't we be concerned that if we're asking,
7 which is unusual, as part of a sentencing
8 process that we add a factor of mandating -
9 which is really a double sentence, very frankly
10 -- mandating that those persons' blood be
11 extracted from them? You've got a whole litany
12 of things "prior to" and "pre-trial", whatever,
13 that there's some objections or whether they
14 give consent towards taking blood, et cetera, et
15 cetera. A little different than giving
16 fingerprints.
17 But my concern is, Senator, that
18 we will not be able to take the computer and
19 vitiate all those samples, because we throw up
20 our hands and say, "What are we?" You know,
21 we're merely states. We have no control over
22 the federal government.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, let me
6320
1 just say, I guess I have one little problem with
2 your characterization. You know, when I became
3 a police officer, I had to be fingerprinted. I
4 worked for the post office at one time. I had
5 to be fingerprinted. It always kind of bothered
6 me that somehow there is this thought it's such
7 a horrible thing to be fingerprinted and that
8 your rights are being violated, and so forth. I
9 don't understand that.
10 The fact that my fingerprints are
11 in the FBI data bank from about six or seven
12 different areas -- if you serve in the military
13 you are fingerprinted, and so forth -- I just
14 don't think that's as big a deal as maybe we
15 make it out.
16 But, Senator, let me tell you
17 this. Clearly, under our bill -- and remember
18 that the interesting thing about this we're
19 going to regulate DNA far better than we ever
20 regulated fingerprints because we're getting
21 right in on the ground floor. And I would think
22 that New York would insist that the federal
23 government, as far as -- abide by our rules.
6321
1 And I personally would ask the DCJS to send any
2 data bank information to the federal government,
3 any DNA data bank information, subject to the
4 caveat that the federal government expunge those
5 -- that record, just as we have to expunge the
6 record if that person or a person or persons
7 should be found not guilty. And I think the
8 federal government will be happy to do that, and
9 I think they will comply.
10 I think the chances under DNA are
11 far, far better than they have been under the
12 inexact science, if you want to call it that, of
13 the way that fingerprinting has been. I agree
14 with you, by the way, Senator, on
15 fingerprinting. You and I have talked about
16 this before. We know that it's been kind of a
17 -- almost a game sort of, that you get the
18 cards back, but the information is some place
19 else. And if you really want to find out that
20 person's fingerprints, you can find them.
21 Of course, it's been pointed out,
22 though, there is one thing as I just said. Most
23 people are fingerprinted at some time in their
6322
1 lives anyways other than for criminal. So I'm
2 not saying that justifies what I just said, but
3 I am telling you this. We are clearly saying in
4 this bill the DNA must be expunged, the
5 information on it, and taken off the record
6 should a person be found not guilty who has been
7 forced to accept the DNA testing.
8 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. On the
9 bill, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Galiber on the bill.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, you
13 and I, as I pointed up, have discussed this
14 notion of fingerprints over and over again, and
15 for some strange reason there is an inference,
16 not between the two of us us, but as we debate
17 it, that there are those of us, our neighbors in
18 this great state of ours and in this great
19 country, who fear being fingerprinted. That's
20 not the case. Or there are those who fear DNA
21 or new sciences, and that's not the case.
22 The fact of the matter that we
23 don't want to go too fast, if you will, to the
6323
1 point where we lose some of our neighbors. What
2 some of us are concerned about, those of us who
3 are exposed for various reasons a little bit
4 more than others, that long range -- you know,
5 we read Orwellian 1984, Orwellian society in
6 1984 and big brother approach. So 1984 came,
7 and you've heard me say over and over again none
8 of us said anything about it. They can zoom in
9 on us at this particular point and tell you what
10 color socks you had on last night or the night
11 before.
12 They are seriously talking about
13 altering genes in the future. So those of us
14 who get up and discuss the science or lack of
15 science, not that we're opposed to
16 fingerprinting, not that we're opposed to DNA,
17 but the method which is used, and that is, to -
18 in addition, as I have pointed out -- to mandate
19 as a part of a sentence that this be extracted
20 from that person. It's a double sentence.
21 And I don't get too exercised
22 about the nature of what these folks are found
23 guilty of. But long range, there's a built-in
6324
1 damage of this kind of legislation. You say in
2 so many words that it's not exact. We need to
3 regulate it. We need to add advisory councils.
4 And it's interesting -- and
5 nobody cares more for you in this body than I
6 do, and I mean that sincerely. Might equally,
7 but not more. You know, we look at the board,
8 the composition of the board. We got a sheriff
9 and Corrections. I mean the board is made up of
10 law enforcement people. Law enforcement
11 people.
12 And we look with some suspect
13 when we have a board which is advisory and
14 talking about the public safety, which we are
15 concerned, and I certainly am equally as much as
16 you are about the public safety, to find that we
17 have a board that's made up of -- I'm not sure
18 how many persons are on that board, but it's
19 nine members, and we're talking about, as I
20 pointed out, correction officers, chiefs of
21 police of New York, state sheriffs association,
22 New York State District Attorneys Association,
23 state crime laboratory advisory, DCJS and a
6325
1 number of others. And I'm concerned that all
2 these folks are on this board, and if it's for
3 good intentions for the safety and public safety
4 in the future of those in our society, why not
5 for one thing -- or one other thing, in addition
6 to what I have said already, why the composition
7 of the board with law enforcement people? Why
8 not with some people from Human Rights and a few
9 other agencies that we have around? They are not
10 the best experts, I don't believe, the persons
11 that you have suggested to be part of this
12 advisory board.
13 So, Senator, in all candor, I
14 welcome on the one hand the opportunity to do
15 better because things that are happening in our
16 society today and in our streets not only in the
17 city of New York but in the state. We see these
18 horrible headlines. We saw one this morning. We
19 will see one tomorrow morning, unfortunately.
20 We were there early this week.
21 Something has to be done. It's
22 just that I have to consistently be concerned
23 about basic human rights and how far we go, and
6326
1 to suggest that at times with technology it
2 backfires, and those things that we think are
3 good and we pass and we go along will backfire
4 on us.
5 We might very well be identified
6 with ribbons of some sort or how we talk or how
7 we change our genes, as I mentioned to you
8 earlier. It's a frightening, frightening
9 thought. And it's not as easy as we make it in
10 this chamber by saying, "Are you for
11 motherhood?" And if you say "Yes," you are okay
12 and if you say "No," you are a bad guy with the
13 hat. I'm merely saying this is a good notion
14 and not because I'm a defense attorney. I am a
15 full-time legislator. I don't get a chance to
16 practice law. I don't know about you.
17 But the fact of the matter is
18 there are built-in, inherent dangers here that
19 have to be mentioned. Have to be mentioned
20 because if we use it as a sword -- as I often
21 say, a sword or shield. Do we cut people up
22 with this? Do we hide behind it? Do we say
23 look what happened? Do we let a fellow out of
6327
1 jail after ten years because we exhumed the
2 body?
3 I got a case now where it's a
4 parental situation, where they say we got to
5 pull the body up and take the test and maybe
6 you'll show proof that the father's blood's
7 there; therefore, therefore you can recover.
8 So it's not just in a criminal
9 action. It's a direction that we're going in,
10 but we have to be -- in our haste, and I will
11 end on this note. Senator, we did things
12 hastily ten years ago. I keep bringing it up
13 because it has to be said over and over again.
14 Some ten years ago, we started
15 piling on mandated sentences and piling on
16 things, to the point now that we've gone so far
17 into it that we don't want to reverse
18 ourselves. You know, I catch you every now and
19 then and I nudge you a little bit, and I see a
20 little smile on your face like, "You are almost
21 right, Joe, but maybe not today, maybe
22 tomorrow."
23 We've got to say somewhere along
6328
1 the line, you know, watch ourselves as we move
2 along because we're doing things sometimes a
3 little too fast.
4 So I rise, Mr. President, to say
5 to the sponsor of the bill I know his
6 intentions, and there's never any question about
7 his intentions, but there are some klinkeres
8 here. There are some danger points. There are
9 some sign posts out here that we have to be
10 concerned about. There are the Orwellian
11 conditions mentioned early on, that we passed
12 this 1984. No one said one word. And they've
13 got technology now that's amazing, unbelievable;
14 that never, never, never would we have passed
15 that kind of legislation.
16 So DNA is a technology that is on
17 its way up. No question about it. I think in
18 our anxiety for not letting it take its course
19 that we're pushing things in like mandating
20 sentences. We're also pushing in here a double
21 sentence on someone I have no sympathy for by
22 saying that we want a bank, and not an exact
23 bank. Because if there is a reversal, we're
6329
1 going to say we will remove it technically from
2 the state, but we've got something on a federal
3 level.
4 DNA has not been proven. There
5 are those who -- prosecutors, if you will, law
6 enforcement people, who seriously question how
7 do you let that person out of jail after ten
8 years? This is not a proven exact science yet.
9 So it works both ways, not saying
10 that we let the person out of jail after 20
11 years. The fact of the matter is, Senator, I
12 congratulate you on moving. I just wish on
13 occasion I can get you to slow up a little bit
14 sometimes, but we're headed in this direction.
15 There are these klinkeres which I think we do
16 not have to have in this bill. And if this bill
17 follows the course, even though it's the
18 Governor's bill, if it's going to be a one-house
19 bill, then I hope that some of the questions
20 I've asked of you can be cleared up. I'm not
21 sure now.
22 Thank you for your time, Senator.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
6330
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
9 bill is passed.
10 Senator Kuhl, what is your
11 pleasure?
12 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
13 President. May we return to Calendar Number
14 1363 and ask the Secretary to call that up.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1363,
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1363,
18 substituted earlier today, by member of the
19 Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number 4225A, an
20 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
23 Goodman.
6331
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
2 Last year, approximately a thousand New York
3 City dwellers had a very, very frustrating
4 experience. They had parked their car somewhere
5 in Brooklyn or Manhattan or one of the other
6 boroughs. They came to return to their car and
7 noted that there was a tow truck with its hooks
8 into the car on the verge of towing it away. A
9 sad experience, indeed, but rendered all the
10 more difficult when the driver of the vehicle
11 arrived and said, "This is my car you are towing
12 away and I'm about to move it," only to be told,
13 we're sorry, Sir or Madam, we cannot do that.
14 Under the laws of the state of New York and the
15 city of New York, we are required to tow your
16 car even though you have arrived in time,
17 theoretically, to save it.
18 This situation is one which in
19 agreement with the traffic commissioner of the
20 city of New York we have prepared a bill to
21 remedy. Under this bill, the alert motorist who
22 finds his car but has noted that it is not yet
23 towed away would face instead of a $150 towing
6332
1 charge on top of a charge for a parking ticket
2 typically $75, instead of facing a $225 total
3 charge, we are able to provide an arrangement
4 whereby the towing charge would be cut in half.
5 Therefore, the $75 charge for the ticket would
6 be supplemented by a $75 charge for the aborted
7 tow and the result would be a $150 charge and
8 none of the inconvenience of having to go to the
9 pound, sort out the location of your car and pay
10 an extra charge.
11 The purpose of this bill is to
12 provide the Vehicle and Traffic Law with a
13 provision whereby a system would be established
14 so that this very difficult situation could be
15 avoided.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
18 Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Goodman
20 yield to a question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
22 Goodman, would you yield to Senator Gold?
23 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, sir.
6333
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, obviously
2 the aims of the legislation are very laudable.
3 But I just want to know how it works.
4 The vehicle receives I believe a
5 ticket from one of the officers in the brown
6 suits and then a tow truck comes along and then
7 starts to hook up the vehicle.
8 Now the owner of the vehicle
9 comes along and under the bill identifies
10 himself in some proper manner.
11 What is the next procedure? Do
12 they pay money to the tow truck operator or is
13 there a second document issued? What actually
14 happens?
15 SENATOR GOODMAN: First of all,
16 the owner appears and requests the release of
17 the vehicle.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Right.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: The owner must
20 show a valid driver's license.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Right.
22 SENATOR GOODMAN: Must present a
23 valid insurance card or other evidence of
6334
1 coverage and must show his vehicle registration
2 to the tow truck operator.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Right.
4 SENATOR GOODMAN: If he is able
5 to do this, the owner must agree in writing to
6 pay a vehicle release fee but neither the ticket
7 nor the release fee need be paid on the spot.
8 He receives that in the mail.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Got it.
10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thus
11 alleviating the need to produce instant cash
12 which may not be feasible.
13 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Let me
14 ask you a question, Senator, and this is really
15 what is on my mind. I think that the program,
16 obviously, is going to help some people and make
17 some sense.
18 I'm concerned about the opening
19 up the door to opportunity for tow truck
20 operators who might decide that this isn't a
21 good business. In other words, somebody comes
22 along and they've got to sign for $75; on the
23 other hand, for $25 in cash they can get their
6335
1 car back and now you've got a tow truck operator
2 who is allowed to be releasing the vehicle.
3 I mean is there any kind of
4 monitoring of this? Has anybody thought past
5 this situation?
6 SENATOR GOODMAN: Actually, the
7 reason for the present arrangement which seems
8 so peculiarly draconian is precisely the problem
9 of bribery to the tow truck operator, and by
10 eliminating his discretion, the present law
11 seeks to alleviate the possibility of a bribe
12 being passed.
13 SENATOR GOLD: I don't -- I'm
14 sorry, Senator. I don't follow that.
15 SENATOR GOODMAN: The tow truck
16 operator under the present arrangement has no
17 discretion to release the car.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Right.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: It's on the
20 hook, and there it must remain.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Right. And he
22 takes it away.
23 SENATOR GOODMAN: He takes it
6336
1 away to the pound, and there you must go and
2 pursue it and find it and pay an exorbitant fee.
3 SENATOR GOLD: If I may, Mr.
4 President. I assume under the present system,
5 which obviously is a problem for the motorist,
6 we at least have a system where we're not
7 opening it up to bribery.
8 Under a system where he can
9 release the vehicle, I mean is there any thought
10 being given as to whether or not this is going
11 to open up a new business for some of these -
12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Well, first of
13 all, the present system does give rise to the
14 possibility of bribery, but the -- and the way
15 it does is that the hook is in the car, the car
16 is elevated and being ready to be towed away.
17 Someone comes up and says, "I'll give you 200
18 bucks if you release my car," or 300 or
19 whatever. A dishonest operator can release it.
20 But if the dishonest operator is seen releasing
21 it by any enforcement officer, that man
22 obviously is in very deep trouble.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
6337
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Under the
2 present -
3 SENATOR GOLD: Under the new
4 law -
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Under the
6 proposed -
7 SENATOR GOLD: May I ask -
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Can I just
9 conclude with the answer to your question?
10 SENATOR GOLD: Of course,
11 Senator.
12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Under the new
13 law, the operator of the tow truck has the right
14 provided that the appropriate credentials have
15 been showed to him to accept the -- in effect,
16 to issue a bill to the driver. In the event
17 that he is caught not issuing that bill after
18 having released the truck from the hook, he is
19 in the same kind of trouble that he would be
20 under existing law. Police officer comes up,
21 can at any time ask to see the credentials of
22 the operator, of the automobile operator and the
23 tow truck operator, can examine the attendant
6338
1 forms and papers that have been filled out. And
2 if they haven't, then their unleashes a very
3 severe penalty just as it would now. The only
4 difference is that the driver is relieved in
5 hopefully the majority -- great majority of
6 cases from all of the inconvenience we have
7 discussed.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if you'll
9 yield to one more question?
10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Sure.
11 SENATOR GOLD: I believe that you
12 have stated the exact case. I just come to a
13 different conclusion than you do.
14 Under the present law if a tow
15 truck operator releases the car, there is no
16 valid reason to do that and you know that the
17 fellow is doing something wrong.
18 But I can envision under the new
19 law, which I'm not saying is a bad idea, if you
20 see a tow truck operator releasing the vehicle,
21 he could have the form and then he -- you know,
22 as soon as they look around, the car is down,
23 "Here's your form," you know, "Here's your 35
6339
1 bucks", or whatever. He's out of there or
2 whatever; it's gone or whatever.
3 I mean it just sets up I think a
4 legal situation for them to be able to release
5 the car which would make it harder I would think
6 for the police officer to determine whether it's
7 a legal letting go of the car or an illegal
8 letting go of the car.
9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, from a
10 systems analysis standpoint what is happening is
11 the tow truck operator has a book of forms in
12 numerical sequence, I presume, and these forms
13 have the usual carbon attachments, and what have
14 you, so that when the truck is released from the
15 hook it can only be released provided a set of
16 those forms has been filled out. One is given
17 to the individual driving the car and one
18 remains in the book, or several do, for
19 dispersion to different parts of the
20 bureaucracy. If a police officer comes up and
21 asks to inspect the book and finds that the form
22 has not been issued, that's readily apparent
23 because there will be no carbon copy, in effect,
6340
1 available to reflect that transaction, and he
2 will say, "Why is there no carbon copy?" You are
3 under arrest, and you will spend the next
4 several years in a free hotel. And that is the
5 disposition of the matter.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Mr.
7 President. Thank you. On the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
9 Gold on the bill.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator
11 Goodman, everyone knows why we admire you. You
12 have now invented a book that doesn't exist. We
13 can only hope that when the law comes about they
14 will have such a book. The law says that there
15 will be some regulation.
16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Will Senator
17 Gold yield?
18 SENATOR GOLD: My pleasure.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Your compliment
20 to my imagination is appreciated, but I am
21 basing this upon an understanding I think we
22 share of a police officer summons book. You've
23 been around for a while -
6341
1 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, yes, Senator,
2 of course -
3 SENATOR GOODMAN: -- and that
4 involves a book with forms very similar to the
5 type that I just described to you.
6 SENATOR GOLD: No, but, Senator
7 -- if I may, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Thank
9 you, Senator Gold.
10 Ladies and gentlemen, I would
11 hope that you would address the chair.
12 SENATOR GOODMAN: And the
13 question is, don't those forms give us
14 protection, in fact?
15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
17 Gold, do you wish the floor?
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, thank you.
19 I've got it right here (indicating with his
20 foot. )
21 Mr. President. Senator Goodman,
22 I'm going to vote for the bill. I think it's a
23 good idea.
6342
1 The bill says that there will be
2 some regulations, and I guess maybe as a result
3 of the regulations there will be a book.
4 Senator, since we have no program today, they
5 cannot have a book that is a release book.
6 Maybe they will take your suggestion and create
7 such a book.
8 But I hope that we're really not
9 -- for the people that we're helping, I hope
10 we're not opening the door to a new business. I
11 mean the people who manage to take what we do
12 and make new businesses out of it or have great
13 imaginations, and I don't think this one takes
14 too much imagination.
15 At any rate, it certainly is
16 worth a try and I'm going to support it, Senator
17 Goodman, and thank you for your courtesy of
18 answering.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: There's
20 a home rule message at the desk.
21 Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6343
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
6 bill is passed.
7 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
9 Galiber.
10 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President,
11 could you tell me if the bill is not out of the
12 house yet how I was recorded on 1378?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I
14 believe you were recorded in the affirmative,
15 Senator Galiber.
16 SENATOR GALIBER: Record it in
17 the negative, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
19 Galiber in the negative, without objection.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
22 Waldon.
23 SENATOR WALDON: I request the
6344
1 same procedure for that bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
3 Waldon, you were recorded in the affirmative and
4 you would prefer to be in the negative on that
5 bill?
6 SENATOR WALDON: That's correct.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
8 objection.
9 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Galiber.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: While I'm
13 standing, could I have unanimous consent to be
14 recorded in the negative on 1086 and 1361.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1086
16 and 1361.
17 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, sir.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: In the
19 negative, without objection.
20 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
22 Present.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Do you want to
6345
1 recognize Senator Holland, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I
3 recognize Senator Holland.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: How are you?
5 Could you remove the star on my bill, Calendar
6 381, Senate Print 488.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
8 bill is starred, Senator.
9 Senator Present.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Remove the
11 star.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Remove
13 the star. The star is removed.
14 Senator Present.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
16 May we have Calendar 1366, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1366.
18 But before we do that, Senator Present, could I
19 recognize Senator LaValle?
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure.
21 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President.
22 Would you remove the star from Calendar Number
23 910.
6346
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Star is
2 removed from Calendar Number 910.
3 Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1366, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 3335,
6 an act to amend the Insurance Law.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
10 Explanation, Senator Tully.
11 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
12 President. This bill amends Section 3233 of the
13 Insurance Law by requiring that the garden spots
14 of Nassau and Suffolk Counties constitute one
15 geographic region for the purpose of demographic
16 and high cost claims sharing pools established
17 pursuant to Section 3233.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
20 Solomon.
21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Will
22 Senator Tully yield, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
6347
1 Tully, would you yield to Senator Solomon?
2 SENATOR TULLY: I would be
3 delighted.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He
5 would be delighted.
6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you.
7 Senator, can you tell me what
8 impact this legislation will have on community
9 rating and open enrollment in terms of the
10 specific geographic areas that are currently
11 involved in it?
12 SENATOR TULLY: It would have a
13 very positive effect for the residents of Nassau
14 and Suffolk Counties, Mr. President, in that a
15 study conducted by Milliman & Robertson, who are
16 actuaries and consultants who were hired at the
17 request of the Long Island Association, a
18 consortium of businesses in Nassau and Suffolk
19 Counties, reflected that combining Long Island
20 with the counties as they presently are would
21 add 2.6 percent to the health insurance premiums
22 of small businesses and individuals as opposed
23 to Long Island standing alone on the demographic
6348
1 pooling issue.
2 SENATOR SOLOMON: So -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
4 Solomon, do you have another question?
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Senator,
6 if you will continue to yield. So, in effect,
7 what this bill will do is raise the health
8 insurance premiums for people who reside in
9 Rockland and Westchester Counties and New York
10 City?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
12 Tully.
13 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
14 That is an assumption that only Senator Solomon
15 can make. What I have indicated is that the
16 cost would be 2.6 percent more to the residents
17 of Long Island.
18 At the time that the open
19 enrollment and community rating bill was
20 negotiated, it was clear that the ability
21 through regulation to create regions would
22 reside in the Commissioner of Insurance, and
23 Long Island has long been recognized as a
6349
1 distinct region by both the federal and the
2 state government with respect to population
3 demographics, economic development, health care
4 planning, and hospital, nursing home and
5 physician rate setting. This is consistent with
6 regional business structures and is intended to
7 provide symmetry between regional health and
8 business economics.
9 So history indicates that in
10 every area Long Island is considered separate
11 and distinct, and they should not be thrown
12 together with the other counties. We did not
13 anticipate, Mr. President, that the Commissioner
14 would do such a thing. And having done it,
15 we're now seeking to rectify an error that he
16 made.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
18 Solomon.
19 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if you
20 would just yield, because I thought you said
21 that this bill would increase rates in Nassau
22 and Suffolk.
23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
6350
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
2 Tully.
3 SENATOR TULLY: Combining Long
4 Island with these other counties would add 2.6
5 percent to the health insurance premiums of
6 small businesses in our area. That's correct.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Well, they're
8 currently combined now, though.
9 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. I
10 didn't hear the question.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
12 Solomon, your question?
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Those counties
14 are currently within this grouping; correct?
15 SENATOR TULLY: That's why we
16 have this bill before us, Senator Solomon.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Right.
18 Senator, one other question. What happens if,
19 next, we have Suffolk County that decides, well,
20 you know, if we break apart from Nassau county,
21 we will have reduced rates because Nassau County
22 has a high incidence of breast cancer, for
23 instance? I mean where is this going to end?
6351
1 And then, someone says, you know -- and eastern
2 Suffolk breaks away from western Suffolk because
3 for some other reasons they make a determination
4 that in fact it will be a lower rate? When does
5 this end?
6 SENATOR TULLY: That's an
7 excellent question, Senator Solomon.
8 I would think that if, for
9 instance, Suffolk County was seeking to break
10 away from Nassau, as you've indicated, then they
11 would be flying in the face of the historic
12 joinder of the two counties for all of the
13 reasons I previously expressed.
14 SENATOR SOLOMON: One other -
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Solomon,
16 one other question. Will you yield?
17 SENATOR TULLY: Yes.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: I thought that
19 the Nassau County-Suffolk -- I believe it was
20 the federal government that had designated it as
21 a region or an economic region. I thought they
22 had recombined it with New York City recently in
23 the Metropolitan area.
6352
1 SENATOR TULLY: While we
2 recognize what a great community New York City
3 is, for purposes such as we're describing today,
4 we prefer to stand alone.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. On
6 the bill.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
8 Solomon on the bill.
9 SENATOR SOLOMON: As Senator
10 Tully indicated, the net impact of this bill
11 would be beneficial to Nassau and Suffolk County
12 but detrimental -- if it's obviously going to
13 lower the rates for those two counties by
14 allowing them to break out of the region, it's
15 going to be detrimental to counties such as
16 Westchester, Rockland, and the New York City
17 boroughs.
18 The impact of community rating is
19 to take large geographic areas and combine them
20 to spread out the risk so that we don't have
21 differences in rates because of the specific
22 area in which you live. And this bill, in fact,
23 flies in the face of the community rating bill
6353
1 which was passed last April -- excuse me, last
2 July, by this Legislature to even out those
3 rates among senior citizens and younger people
4 and people that were ill.
5 So if we vote for this bill, we
6 are in fact starting to take apart that
7 community rating, and I should warn those of you
8 that are in other counties that in fact this
9 bill could end up increasing the insurance rates
10 for those people that are in your counties as of
11 now.
12 And I would recommend a no vote
13 if you live in or represent Rockland,
14 Westchester and New York City on this bill.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
17 the last section.
18 Senator Tully.
19 SENATOR TULLY: On the bill to
20 explain my vote. Senator Solomon -- I know of
21 his keen interest in being sure that everything
22 is being done in terms of equity, and I think
23 all we're asking here is that we consider the
6354
1 historical joinder of those two counties. And
2 the fact is that the Commissioner in his
3 infinite wisdom made an error in including these
4 counties with the others. They have always
5 stood alone.
6 And just as he has broken down
7 the pools into seven regions throughout the
8 state, he just made an error in including these
9 two in that particular pool. We're asking that
10 it be rectified.
11 Thank you, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, excuse
20 me. Ayes 58, nays one. Oh, wait a minute.
21 Those recorded in the negative on
22 Calendar Number 1366 are Senators Connor, Gold,
23 Leichter, Markowitz, Ohrenstein, Onorato and
6355
1 Solomon. Ayes 52, nays 7.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1381, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5256A,
6 Private Housing Finance Law.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1389, by Senator Pataki.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
21 for the day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay
23 that aside for the day.
6356
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1391, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5886A,
3 Workers' Compensation Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
5 Explanation. Senator Lack.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it
8 aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1392, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number
11 5915a, temporarily exempt from medical licensure
12 requirements physicians from foreign countries.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Will Senator
14 Volker yield to a question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
16 Volker, would you yield to a question?
17 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, just a
19 question. Somebody raised it. I forget who,
20 but I figured you wouldn't mind giving an answer
21 to this. I assume that the intent here is to
22 allow the various competitors to bring their own
23 medical people with them.
6357
1 SENATOR VOLKER: Right.
2 SENATOR GOLD: But the way the
3 bill reads, it doesn't seem to limit them to -
4 these doctors to doing that. It gives them the
5 right on a temporary basis to do anything. Am I
6 misreading it?
7 SENATOR VOLKER: No, I think you
8 are misreading it, Senator.
9 Senator, by the way, this
10 legislation is patterned exactly after
11 legislation that was passed for the Olympics in
12 1980, and the reason for it is that so many of
13 these countries and these teams that travel,
14 travel with their own medical people. And under
15 the rules of New York, you can't practice
16 medicine in New York unless you are licensed in
17 New York. And as a result, there is no way that
18 these people could even be authorized by
19 state-to-state medical societies. So that's
20 what the thrust of this is about.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Senator, my
22 question was not very artfully phrased. I don't
23 mean that during that period they can go out and
6358
1 give general medical attention. The bill
2 specifically says in connection with the games.
3 SENATOR VOLKER: Right.
4 SENATOR GOLD: But I just wanted
5 to understand -- the way I read it, if somebody
6 comes in here, they can -- even though they may
7 come with one team or they may come with one
8 player, but once they are here they under this
9 bill would be authorized to pick up new
10 clientele.
11 SENATOR VOLKER: No.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Well, that's the
13 point.
14 SENATOR VOLKER: Absolutely not.
15 In fact, if you read it, in both sections it
16 talks about in relation to World University
17 Games athletes or staff.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, but they can
19 deal with anybody who's connected with the
20 games. It wouldn't have to be the client they
21 came with.
22 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I suppose
23 that's true.
6359
1 SENATOR GOLD: I'm not saying
2 that's bad or good. It's just something -
3 SENATOR VOLKER: But they
4 couldn't go outside the games, though, is what
5 I'm saying.
6 SENATOR GOLD: No.
7 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, okay.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
9 Dollinger.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
11 President. Would Senator Volker yield to
12 another question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
14 Volker, would you yield to Senator Dollinger?
15 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question,
17 Senator, is are there equestrian events at the
18 World University Games? Can we anticipate that
19 veterinarians might run into the same problem?
20 SENATOR VOLKER: I suppose -- as
21 my counsel said, "Not that they've told us."
22 But I guess there would probably be equestrian
23 events at the game. I don't know if teams would
6360
1 bring their own veterinarians, but I suppose
2 they would, but no one has told us that that
3 would be a problem, but you may well be right.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's fine,
5 Mr. President. I didn't know. I figured that
6 that's the one difference between winter
7 Olympics and summer Olympics is that there's
8 animals.
9 SENATOR VOLKER: That's probably
10 a good point, but I think the -- water polo?
11 I think the -- the reason for
12 this bill apparently is that there was another
13 bill that we had, too. I think it related to
14 the -- oh, it was Sunday sports that we just
15 passed. These are all patterned on the same
16 kinds of things that had to be passed for the
17 Olympic Games back in 1980, and that's where
18 this came from. You may well be right, but no
19 veterinarian has told us it's a problem. So I
20 guess -
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's one we
22 don't need to solve then, now.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
6361
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1395, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
12 5944, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
14 second, please.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
17 Dollinger would like an explanation, Senator
18 Wright.
19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Be glad to, Mr.
20 President.
21 The bill amends the Real Property
22 Tax Law to provide that in the event that
23 conservation easements are acquired by the state
6362
1 in the Tug Hill region that they will be subject
2 to taxation. This is a similar provision to
3 what is currently afforded in the Adirondack
4 region and in the Catskill region and other
5 regions of the state where there are protected
6 watersheds. It provides a protection to the tax
7 base of the local governments in that region.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Dollinger.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A couple
13 quick questions if Senator Wright will yield,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Will
16 you yield to a couple quick questions?
17 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'll be glad to.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, does
19 this apply to donated easements, as well?
20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So if it was
22 simply donated by someone to the state, the
23 state would have to pay the taxation costs?
6363
1 SENATOR WRIGHT: That is
2 correct. They pay the difference.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Two, what
4 about -- I understand that this is a specific
5 region of the state. My question is why
6 wouldn't there be a statewide rule, whenever the
7 state takes a scenic easement or a slope
8 easement or whatever it is, a conservation
9 easement, why wouldn't we do this on a statewide
10 basis?
11 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, in fact, I
12 think we could and should. If you will recall
13 yesterday's discussion in terms of the
14 environmental trust fund, in fact there is
15 provision in that particular statute that we
16 supported yesterday to extend that statewide so
17 that, in fact, all of the state would enjoy that
18 benefit. In the absence of achieving both
19 houses' support of that particular bill, we felt
20 we needed to address the particular area of the
21 state that has been designated the Tug Hill
22 region.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A final
6364
1 question, Mr. President.
2 Do you know what the total cost
3 to the state of the easements in the Tug Hill -
4 and I know the Tug Hill area pretty well. Do
5 you have any idea what we pay in lieu of taxes
6 or as a tax payment to the communities?
7 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, right now,
8 you don't have a requirement that you make that
9 payment. That's what this bill would require to
10 do.
11 And in terms of establishing an
12 estimate for that particular easement, it all
13 depends on the amount of the easement, the
14 actual reduction in the assessed value when the
15 easement is taken.
16 But anticipate that right now
17 there is only a limited area of easements
18 actually under discussion, so it would have
19 minimal impact.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
21 other question, Mr. President. The answer
22 triggered it. I remember when Senator Stafford
23 talked at some length about the state's reaction
6365
1 to assessments by local assessors over values
2 that should be associated with easements and
3 with takings by the state. His suggestion was
4 that the state through obstreperous litigation
5 practice, I think, in his words, had caused the
6 communities to spend a lot of money litigating
7 value and spend a lot of the taxpayers' money
8 trying to figure out what these properties were
9 worth for assessment purposes.
10 My question is, do you have any
11 thoughts about doing something in Tug Hill
12 differently to get that out of the courts or
13 perhaps putting it in binding arbitration or
14 perhaps some other provision that would avoid
15 that seemingly needless conflict between the
16 state and its subdivision over land values for
17 taxation purposes.
18 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, we do not
19 have that reflected in this particular bill. I
20 share the Senator's concerns as they were
21 articulated yesterday.
22 And, in fact, we've dealt with a
23 number of areas where we've talked about the
6366
1 same kind of issue, and that's the overstepping
2 of their regulatory bounds and authority by
3 agencies, and I think this is just but one more
4 example that falls into that general category
5 where agencies are really exceeding their
6 statutory authority for their interests as
7 opposed to the broader statewide interest.
8 So in that generic sense, I think
9 it needs to be addressed, but this particular
10 bill does not do that.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
12 President. On the bill.
13 I'm going to vote in favor of
14 this bill. I know the Tug Hill region
15 reasonably well, and I see the wisdom of
16 entering into this kind of relationship. I do
17 hope that this is really a foreshadowing of
18 treatment on a statewide basis that would do
19 that, whether it's under an environmental act or
20 environmental trust fund act, however it comes,
21 that we adopt this kind of approach for the
22 entire state, and I would just hope that the
23 Majority might consider some alternative to
6367
1 litigation in a dispute between the local
2 assessor and the state about how much payment
3 for tax is going to have to be made on
4 state-owned lands.
5 I understand, and frankly
6 appreciate, Senator Stafford's point that was
7 made yesterday. I think Senator Wright is aware
8 of it, but there's got to be a way that we can
9 kick out of the court system this extremely
10 litigious problem with value.
11 And I'd point out that I agree
12 with -- I think Senator Leichter or Senator Gold
13 yesterday who said unfortunately what you have
14 is the home town assessor who's trying to put as
15 much value as he can on the state property to
16 generate as much income for the home town voters
17 as he or she can, and that tends to put two
18 parties in completely opposite position -- the
19 state hoping to reduce its tax costs; the
20 assessor hoping to pass as much value as
21 possible on to the state. And it seems to me
22 that there could be some way for the Majority to
23 work out a system of arbitration, some system
6368
1 that would avoid the kind of litigation
2 stranglehold on small communities that appears
3 to be involved here.
4 So I would just offer that as a
5 thought to my colleague from Jefferson County.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1403, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
18 5989, amends Chapter 680 of the Laws of 1976,
19 amending the Local Finance Law.
20 SENATOR GOLD: The Senator yield
21 to one question?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
23 Larkin.
6369
1 Senator Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: While we're
3 waiting for Senator Larkin, may I go back to
4 motions?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
6 Certainly can.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
8 On page 30, I offer the following amendments to
9 Calendar 1320, Senate Print 5991, and ask that
10 it retain its place on the Third Reading
11 Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
13 objection.
14 Senator Kuhl.
15 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, also in the
16 same vein, Mr. President. On behalf of Senator
17 Hannon, I wish to call up his bill, Senate Print
18 5006, recalled from the Assembly, which is now
19 at the desk.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
21 Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
23 Holland, Senate Bill Number 5006, an act to
6370
1 amend the Public Authorities Law.
2 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. I
3 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
4 bill was passed.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
6 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
7 (The Secretary called the roll on
8 reconsideration. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
11 bill is before the house.
12 SENATOR KUHL: I offer up the
13 following amendments, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
15 Amendments received.
16 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr.
17 President, on behalf of Senator Hannon, I wish
18 to call up Calendar Number 470, Assembly Print
19 Number 1829A.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
21 Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Assembly Bill
23 Number 1829A, an act to amend the Private
6371
1 Housing Finance Law.
2 SENATOR KUHL: I now move to
3 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill
4 was substituted for Senator Hannon's bill,
5 Senate Print Number 3174A, on June 22 of this
6 year.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
8 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
9 (The Secretary called the roll on
10 reconsideration.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
13 bill is before the house.
14 SENATOR KUHL: I now move that
15 Assembly Bill Number 1829A be recommitted to the
16 Committee on Rules and that my Senate bill be
17 restored to the order of Third Reading Calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
19 objection.
20 Senator Wright.
21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President.
22 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in
23 the negative on Calendar Number 1068.
6372
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
2 objection.
3 SENATOR WRIGHT: And I have
4 several motions, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
6 Certainly, Senator Wright.
7 SENATOR WRIGHT: On page number
8 12, I offer the following amendments to Calendar
9 Number 614, Senate Print Number 4108A, and ask
10 that said bill retain its place on the Third
11 Reading Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
13 objection.
14 SENATOR WRIGHT: On page 27, I
15 offer the following amendments to Calendar
16 Number 1193, Senate Print Number 5768A, and ask
17 that said bill retain its place on the Third
18 Reading Calendar.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
20 objection.
21 Senator Larkin, explanation is
22 requested.
23 Oh, Senator Larkin has a motion.
6373
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
2 wish to call up my bill, Print Number Senate
3 3985, recalled from the Assembly, which is now
4 at the desk.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
6 Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
8 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 3985, an act to amend
9 the General Municipal Law.
10 SENATOR LARKIN: I now move to
11 reconsider the vote by which the bill was
12 passed.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
14 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
15 (The Secretary called the roll on
16 reconsideration. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
19 bill is before the house.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: I now offer the
21 following amendments.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
23 Amendments received.
6374
1 THE SECRETARY: On page 21 of
2 today's calendar, Senator Farley moves to
3 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
4 Bill Number 7107B, and substitute it for the
5 identical Third Reading 889.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
7 Substitution ordered.
8 1403, secretary will read the
9 title.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1403, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
12 5989, amends Chapter 680 of the Laws of 1976.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
14 Explanation. Senator Larkin, an explanation was
15 requested earlier when you were -
16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6375
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Recognize
6 Senator Pataki.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
8 Pataki.
9 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes, Mr.
10 President. I request unanimous consent to be
11 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1068.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
13 objection.
14 Senator Present.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
16 I believe there is a privileged resolution of
17 Senator Lack's at the desk. May we have the
18 title read and acted upon.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
22 Resolution, by Senators lack, Marino, and
23 others, paying tribute to the life and
6376
1 contributions of Suffolk County Planning
2 Commissioner Arthur Kunz.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: On the
4 resolution. All those in favor, indicate by
5 saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (There was no response. )
9 The resolution is adopted.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
12 I believe there is a privileged resolution at
13 the desk by Senator Goodman. May we have the
14 title read.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Goodman, Legislative Resolution, honoring the
19 life of Ethel Hausman.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: On the
21 resolution. All in favor, say aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 Opposed, nay.
6377
1 (There was no response. )
2 The resolution is adopted.
3 Senator Present, that concludes
4 everything here at the desk.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
6 There being no further business, I move that -
7 after you recognize Senator Seward.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
9 chair recognizes Senator Seward.
10 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Mr.
11 President. I would like unanimous consent to be
12 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
13 1068.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
15 objection.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Now, there
18 being no further business, I move that we
19 adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senate
21 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.
22 (Whereupon, at 6:41 p.m., Senate
23 adjourned. )