Regular Session - June 30, 1993

                                                                 
6378

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         9               ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                 June 30, 1993

        11                  2:30 p.m.

        12

        13

        14               REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
6379

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Senators will please find

         4       their seats.

         5                      If you will please rise for the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         9                      Today, in the absence of a

        10       visiting clergy, we will bow our heads for a

        11       moment of silent prayer.

        12                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        13       silence.)

        14                      Secretary will begin by reading

        15       the Journal.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        17       Tuesday, June 29. The Senate met pursuant to

        18       adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, June 28,

        19       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        20       adjourned.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hearing

        22       no objection, the Journal will stand approved as

        23       read.











                                                             
6380

         1                      The order of business.

         2                      Presentation of petitions.

         3                      Messages from the Assembly.

         4                      Messages from the Governor.

         5                      Reports of standing committees.

         6                      We have a report of a standing

         7       committee.

         8                      The Secretary will read it.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

        10       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        11       following bills directly for third reading:

        12                      Senate Bill Number 478, by

        13       Senator Stavisky, an act to amend the

        14       Surrogate's Court Procedure Act.

        15                      3407B, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

        16       amend the Executive Law.

        17                      3719B, by Senator Jones,

        18       authorize county of Monroe to convey Powder Mill

        19       Park.

        20                      3800A, by Senator Maltese, an act

        21       to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

        22                      3807B, by Senator Wright, State

        23       Administrative Procedure Act.











                                                             
6381

         1                      4071, by Senator Seward,

         2       Retirement and Social Security Law.

         3                      4569A, by Senator Marino,

         4       allowing Pauline Ogus to receive service credit.

         5                      4639A, by Senator Levy, an act to

         6       amend the Canal Law.

         7                      5305, by Senator Velella,

         8       Transportation Law.

         9                      3569, by Senator Padavan, Real

        10       Property Tax Law.

        11                      5520A, by Senator Bruno, certain

        12       persons to obtain retroactive membership in Tier

        13       I.

        14                      5777A, by Senator Stachowski,

        15       permitting George R. Blair, Jr., to purchase

        16       service credit.

        17                      5985, by Senator Mega, Uniform

        18       City Court Act.

        19                      5997A, by Senator Johnson, Local

        20       Finance Law.

        21                      6013A, by Senator Skelos,

        22       Estates, Powers and Trusts Law.

        23                      6016, by Senator Cook, authorize











                                                             
6382

         1       the city of Port Jervis, Orange County, to

         2       discontinue the use of certain portion of the

         3       street.

         4                      6017, by Senator DeFrancisco, to

         5       authorize Stephen Kenyon to transfer credit.

         6                      6018, by Senator Daly, New York

         7       State Urban Development Corporation Act.

         8                      6029, by Senator Holland,

         9       authorize Tier I status for Joseph Flanagan.

        10                      6033, by Senator DeFrancisco, in

        11       relation to setting the taxable status date of

        12       real property.

        13                      6046, by the Committee on Rules,

        14       an act to amend the Tax Law.

        15                      6047, by the Committee on Rules,

        16       an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        17                      And 6048, by the Committee on

        18       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law.

        19                      All bills -- excuse me.

        20                      Also 6055, by Senator Lack,

        21       amends Chapter 994 of the Laws of 1984, creating

        22       the Suffolk County Sewer District Number 21.

        23                      All bills reported directly for











                                                             
6383

         1       third reading.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

         3       bills are reported to third reading.

         4                      Continuing:

         5                      Reports of select committees.

         6                      Communications and reports from

         7       state officers.

         8                      Motions and resolutions.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Skelos.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On page number

        13       40, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        14       Number 62, Senate Print Number 80, and ask that

        15       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        16       Calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        18       objection.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On page number

        20       29, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        21       Number 1220, Senate Print Number 5147A, and ask

        22       that said bill retain its place on the Third

        23       Reading Calendar.











                                                             
6384

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

         2       objection.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On behalf of

         4       Senator Larkin, on page number 18, I offer the

         5       following amendments to Calendar Number 547,

         6       Senate Print Number 2737A, and ask that said

         7       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

         8       Calendar.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        10       objection.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  And, Mr.

        12       President, on page number 5, I offer the

        13       following amendments to Calendar Number 168,

        14       Senate Print Number 441A, and ask that said bill

        15       retain its place on the third reading.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        17       objection, the bill will retain its place.

        18                      Senator Kuhl.

        19                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.  On behalf of Senator Velella, I wish

        21       to call his bill up.  It's Senate Print Number

        22       3156, recalled from the Assembly, which is now

        23       at the desk.











                                                             
6385

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       Secretary will read Senator Velella's bill.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         4       Velella, Senate Bill Number 3156, an act to

         5       amend the Insurance Law.

         6                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President.  I

         7       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         8       bill was passed.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        12       reconsideration. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        15       bill is before the house.

        16                      SENATOR KUHL:  I offer up the

        17       following amendments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Amendments received.  The bill will retain its

        20       place.

        21                      Senator Kuhl.

        22                      SENATOR KUHL:  Also, Mr.

        23       President, on behalf of Senator LaValle, I wish











                                                             
6386

         1       to call up his bill, Senate Print Number 1432,

         2       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the

         3       desk.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         5       Secretary will read 1432.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         7       LaValle, an act to amend the General Municipal

         8       Law.

         9                      SENATOR KUHL:  I now move to

        10       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        11       passed.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        15       reconsideration. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        18       bill is before the house.

        19                      SENATOR KUHL:  I offer up the

        20       following amendments.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Amendments received.  The bill will retain its

        23       place.











                                                             
6387

         1                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President, on

         2       behalf of Senator Tully, I wish to call up his

         3       bill, Senate Print Number 724B, recalled from

         4       the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         6       Secretary will read Senator Tully's bill.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senate Bill

         8       Number 724B, by Senator Tully, an act to amend

         9       the Public Health Law.

        10                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President, I

        11       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        12       bill was passed.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        16       reconsideration. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is before the house.

        20                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President, I

        21       now offer the following amendments.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        23       Amendments received.  The bill will retain its











                                                             
6388

         1       place. Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On behalf of

         3       Senator Levy, would you please remove the star

         4       on Calendar Number 62.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  62, the

         6       star is removed at the request of the sponsor.

         7                      Senator Volker.

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         9       on behalf of Senator Hannon, on page 9, I offer

        10       the following amendments to Calendar Number 470,

        11       Senate Print Number 3174A, and ask that said

        12       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        13       Calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        15       objection, the bill will retain its place.

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President, I

        17       wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number

        18       1539 -

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1539.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  -- recalled from

        21       the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        23       Secretary will read Senator Volker's bill.











                                                             
6389

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         2       Volker, Senate Bill Number 1539, an act to amend

         3       the Executive Law.

         4                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President, I

         5       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         6       bill was passed.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        10       reconsideration. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       bill is before the house.

        14                      Senator Volker.

        15                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President, I

        16       now offer the following amendments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        18       Amendments are received.  The bill will retain

        19       its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Thank you.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Are

        22       there any other motions on the floor?

        23                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.











                                                             
6390

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         2       Johnson.

         3                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         4       on page 32, I offer the following amendments is

         5       to Calendar Number 1347, Senate Print Number

         6       5947, and ask that said bill retain its place on

         7       the Third Reading Calendar.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

         9       objection, the bill will retain its place.

        10                      We have some substitutions.  The

        11       Secretary will read them.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 10 of

        13       today's calendar, Senator Larkin moves to

        14       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

        15       Bill Number 7884A, and substitute it for the

        16       identical Third Reading 546.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        18       Substitution ordered.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 31,

        20       Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the Committee

        21       on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7889B and

        22       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

        23       1314.











                                                             
6391

         1                      On page 36, Senator LaValle moves

         2       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         3       Assembly Bill Number 3828 and substitute it for

         4       the identical Third Reading 1411.

         5                      On page 36, Senator Maltese moves

         6       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         7       Assembly Bill Number 6859 and substitute it for

         8       the identical Third Reading 1413.

         9                      On page 37, Senator Sheffer moves

        10       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        11       Assembly Bill Number 6115 and substitute it for

        12       the identical Third Reading 1414.

        13                      On page 37, Senator Sheffer moves

        14       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        15       Assembly Bill Number 7008A and substitute it for

        16       the identical Third Reading 1415.

        17                      On page 38, Senator Connor moves

        18       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        19       Assembly Bill Number 8131 and substitute it for

        20       the identical Calendar Number 1425.

        21                      On page 39, Senator Daly moves to

        22       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

        23       Bill Number 8604 and substitute it for the











                                                             
6392

         1       identical Calendar Number 1430.

         2                      On page 41, Senator Velella moves

         3       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         4       Assembly Bill Number 6404 and substitute it for

         5       the identical Third Reading 259.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Substi

         7       tutions are ordered.  Any other motions on the

         8       floor?

         9                      Senator Present, I guess we're

        10       ready if you are.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Ready.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        13       Non-controversial?

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        16       Non-controversial.  The Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5,

        18       Calendar Number 174, by Senator Farley, Senate

        19       Bill Number 1922, amends Chapter 883 of the Laws

        20       of 1980, amending the Banking Law generally.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        23       aside.











                                                             
6393

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       3795, by Senator Kuhl.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         4       for the day.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         6       aside for the day.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       471, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill -

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        11       aside.

        12                      This is Assemblyman Wright.

        13                      That was just temporarily, right?

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Temporarily.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       591, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 4426A,

        17       Agriculture and Markets Law.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will you lay that

        19       aside for Senator Leichter, please.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        21       aside for Senator Leichter.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       5978, by member of the Assembly R. Sweeney,











                                                             
6394

         1       Assembly Bill Number 1335C, an act to amend the

         2       Insurance Law, requiring certain health

         3       insurance policies to cover necessary treatment

         4       of diabetes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34, nays

        13       one.  Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       688, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number -

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        20       aside.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Also lay aside

        22       Calendar Numbers 869, 870, 871, and 873.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  For the day?











                                                             
6395

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  No,

         2       just temporarily.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       889, substituted earlier today, by member of the

         5       Assembly Nieves, Assembly Bill Number 7107B, an

         6       act to amend the Banking Law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       900, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

        19       3919C, an act to amend Chapter 812.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        22       aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
6396

         1       1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly,

         2       Assembly Bill Number -

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         5       that bill aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1250, by Senator Hannon.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        10       that bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1251, by Senator Lack.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay that one

        14       aside for the day, please.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        16       that aside for the day.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

        19       5900, Environmental Conservation Law.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        23       that one aside.











                                                             
6397

         1                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Lay it aside

         2       for the day, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         4       that bill aside for the day.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1311, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 4186

         7       A, an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1314, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        20       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7889B,

        21       an act to amend the Civil Service Law.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
6398

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1316, by the Assembly committee -

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        13       that bill aside.

        14                      1320 is high.  Lay it aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1326, by Senator Trunzo -

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Lay it aside for

        18       the day.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        20       that bill aside for the day.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1338, by Senator Hannon.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside,











                                                             
6399

         1       please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1344, by Senator Volker -

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         7       lay it aside for the month.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         9       aside for the month?

        10                      That means for the day.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1355, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number

        13       7678A, New York State Medical Care Facilities

        14       Finance Agency Act.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
6400

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1364, by Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         6       is aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       131, by member of the Assembly Lasher.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside,

        10       please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        12       that bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1389.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        17       aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1391.

        20                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
6401

         1       1399, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         2       Assembly Bill Number 8207, amends Chapter 710 of

         3       the Laws of 1988, amending the Social Services

         4       Law.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         7       aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1408, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 6045,

        10       an act to amend the Public Health Law.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        13       aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1411, substituted earlier today, by member of

        16       the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Bill Number 3828,

        17       General Municipal Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
6402

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1413, substituted earlier today, by member of

         7       the Assembly Colman, Assembly Bill Number 6859.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        10       aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1414, substituted earlier today, by member of

        13       the Assembly Pillittere, Assembly Bill Number

        14       6115, Parks, Recreation and Historic

        15       Preservation Law.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.











                                                             
6403

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1415, substituted earlier today, by member of

         5       the Assembly Pillittere, Assembly Bill Number

         6       7008A, Parks, Recreation and Historic

         7       Preservation Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1416, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 4757A,

        20       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

        21       the State Finance Law.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it











                                                             
6404

         1       aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1419, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

         4       5111A, Social Services Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1420, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5255A,

        17       Not-for-Profit Corporation Law.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        20       aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1421, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        23       5582A, Domestic Relations Law and the Family











                                                             
6405

         1       Court Act.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         3       the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         7       the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1422, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

        14       5665, amends Chapter 611 of the Laws of 1977.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        18       aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1423, by the Senate Committee on Rules.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        23       that bill aside.











                                                             
6406

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1424, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

         3       5756, an act to amend the Public Health Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1425, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        16       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8131,

        17       an act to amend the Election Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
6407

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1426, by Senator Sheffer, Senate Bill Number

         7       5895, Education Law, in relation to requirements

         8       for written prescriptions.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1427, by Senator Hannon -

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        23       that bill aside.











                                                             
6408

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1429, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 6003,

         3       Retirement and Social Security Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

         5       is a home rule message here at the desk.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Don't

         8       read the bill.  Lay it aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1430, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        11       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8604,

        12       Not-for-Profit Corporation Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 42.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
6409

         1       1431, by the Senate Committee on Rules.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         4       that bill aside.

         5                      Senator Present, that's the first

         6       time through.

         7                      There are four bills with the

         8       Rules report. Do you want to go with those right

         9       now?

        10                      Secretary will read them.  And

        11       all of the bills are on the top of the members'

        12       desks.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1449.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        17       aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1452, by the Senate Committee on Rules.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        22       that aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
6410

         1       1453.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         4       aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

         7       was no home rule message with it, actually, so

         8       we have to lay it aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1454.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        13       aside.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Gold.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  At this time, Mr.

        18       President -- it's been discussed with the

        19       Majority Leader -- we would like a recess, and I

        20       call an immediate meeting of the policy

        21       committee and ask that the members of the

        22       Democratic Conference stand available for a

        23       conference, but right now, there'll be a policy











                                                             
6411

         1       committee meeting in Senator Ohrenstein's

         2       office.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       Senate will stand at ease.

         5                      The Senate will stand easy, and

         6       the Democratic policy committee will meet.

         7                      (Whereupon, at 3:03 p.m., the

         8       Senate was at ease. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:  Senator

        10       Present.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I would like to

        12       announce an immediate conference of the Majority

        13       in Room 332.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA:  There

        15       will be an immediate conference of the Majority

        16       in Room 332.

        17                      (Whereupon, at 3:07 p.m., the

        18       Senate recessed. )

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
6412

         1                      ...At 6:24 p.m....

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  The Senate will

         3       stand at ease until 8:00 o'clock.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         5       Present?

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  The Senate will

         7       stand at ease until 8:00 o'clock.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

         9       Senate will stand at ease until 8:00 o'clock.

        10                      (The Senate stood at ease from

        11       6:25 p.m. until 9:39 p.m.)

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  There will be

        13       an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        14       Room 332.  An immediate meeting of the Rules

        15       Committee in Room 332.

        16                      (The Senate stood at ease from

        17       9:39 p.m. until 9:53 p.m.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       Senate will come to order.

        20                      Senator Present, we have motions

        21       on the floor.  Do you want to do those?

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's do some

        23       of the housekeeping.











                                                             
6413

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

         2       right.  Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         4       I wish to call up my bill, Print Number 3931,

         5       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

         6       desk.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         8       Secretary will read it.  Soon as he finds it,

         9       he'll read it.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        11       Holland, Senate Bill Number 3931, an act to

        12       amend the Public Authorities Law.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        14       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        15       bill was passed.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        17       the roll on reconsideration.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        19       reconsideration. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President -

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,











                                                             
6414

         1       I now offer the following amendments.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Amendments received; bill will retain its

         4       place.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         6       I wish to call up my bill Print Number 38... I'm

         7       sorry, 3538 recalled from the Assembly which is

         8       now at the desk.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        10       Secretary will read it.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  3538, by Senator

        12       Holland, Education Law.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now move to

        14       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        15       passed.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        17       the roll on reconsideration.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        19                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now offer the

        20       following amendments.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Amendments are received; bill will retain its

        23       place.











                                                             
6415

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now wish to

         2       call up my bill, Print Number 464, recalled from

         3       the Assembly which is now at the desk.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         5       Secretary will read it.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         7       Holland, 464, Social Services Law.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now move to

         9       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        10       passed.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        12       the roll on reconsideration.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        14       reconsideration. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now offer the

        17       following amendments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Amendments received; the bill will retain its

        20       place.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I wish to call

        22       up my bill, Print Number 86-A, recalled from the

        23       Assembly which is now at the desk.











                                                             
6416

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Secretary will read Senator Holland's bill.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         4       Holland, Senate Bill 86-A, Social Services Law.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now move to

         6       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

         7       passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now offer the

        12       following amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        14       Amendments are received; the bill will retain

        15       its place.

        16                      Senator Tully.

        17                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        18       wish to call up my bill, Print Number 723-A,

        19       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        20       desk.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Secretary will read Senator Tully's bill.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Tully,











                                                             
6417

         1       723-A, Chapter 629 of the Laws of 1986.

         2                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         3       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         4       bill was passed.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         6       Secretary will call the roll on

         7       reconsideration.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         9       reconsideration. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        11                      SENATOR TULLY:  Very good.  Mr.

        12       President, I now offer the following amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Those

        14       amendments are going to be received and the bill

        15       will retain its place.

        16                      SENATOR TULLY:  That's what I was

        17       waiting for.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Mega.

        20                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President, my

        21       bill, on page 28, I offer the following

        22       amendments to Calendar Number 1211, Senate Print

        23       Number 4580 and ask that said bill retain its











                                                             
6418

         1       place on Third Reading Calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Amendments received.  Bill will retain its

         4       place.

         5                      Senator Spano.

         6                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President, on

         7       behalf of Senator Daly, on page 37, I offer the

         8       following amendments to Calendar 1416, Senate

         9       Print 4757-A, ask that said bill retain its

        10       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Bill

        12       will retain its place.

        13                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

        14       Senator Libous, page 22, offer the following

        15       amendments to Calendar 897, 4636-A, ask that the

        16       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        17       Calendar.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        19       objection.

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  Behalf of Senator

        21       LaValle, wish to call up his bill 3722-A,

        22       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the

        23       desk.











                                                             
6419

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Secretary will read it.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         4       LaValle, 3722-A, Education Law.

         5                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

         6       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         7       passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        11       reconsideration. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       bill is before the house.

        15                      Senator Spano.

        16                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        17       following amendments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Amendments received; the bill will retain its

        20       place.

        21                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

        22       Senator Kuhl, I wish to call up his bill, print

        23       3539, recalled from the Assembly which is now at











                                                             
6420

         1       the desk.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Secretary will read it.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Kuhl,

         5       Senate Bill 3539, Agriculture and Markets Law.

         6                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

         7       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         8       passed.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        10       the roll on reconsideration.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        12       reconsideration. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        14                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        15       following amendments.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        17       Amendments received, bill will retain its

        18       place.

        19                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

        20       Senator Larkin, on page 17, I offer the

        21       following amendments to Calendar 844, 4354-A,

        22       ask the bill retain its place on the Third

        23       Reading Calendar.











                                                             
6421

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

         2       objection.

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  Behalf of Senator

         4       Larkin, wish to call up his bill Print 5744,

         5       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

         6       desk.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         8       Secretary will read it.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        10       Larkin, 5744, authorizing the city of Newburgh

        11       to issue serial bonds.

        12                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

        13       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

        14       passed.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        16       the roll on reconsideration.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        18       reconsideration. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        21       following amendments.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        23       Amendments received.  Bill will retain its











                                                             
6422

         1       place.

         2                      SENATOR SPANO:  Behalf of Senator

         3       Velella, wish to call up his bill 4504, recalled

         4       from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         6       Secretary will read Senator Velella's bill.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         8       Velella, 4504, Insurance Law.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

        10       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

        11       passed.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        13       the roll on reconsideration.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        15       reconsideration. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        17                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        18       following amendments.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        20       Amendments received.

        21                      SENATOR SPANO:  I wish to call up

        22       my bill, Print 2020-A, recalled from the

        23       Assembly which is now at the desk.











                                                             
6423

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Secretary will read Senator Spano's bill.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Spano,

         4       2020-A, Mental Hygiene Law.

         5                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

         6       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         7       passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        11       reconsideration. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        13                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        14       following amendments.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        16       Amendments are received.

        17                      Senator -

        18                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

        19       Senator Lack.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Holy

        21       Gee.

        22                      SENATOR SPANO:  I wish to offer

        23       the following amendments to Calendar Number











                                                             
6424

         1       1455, Senate Print Number 6055, ask the bill

         2       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

         4       objection, amendments received.

         5                      Senator Nozzolio.

         6                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         7       on behalf of Senator Spano, I mean -- I move the

         8       following bills be discharged from their

         9       respective committees and be recommitted with

        10       instructions to strike the enacting clause:

        11       Senate Print Number 6027.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        13       objection.

        14                      Senator Volker.

        15                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        16       if Senator Spano hasn't done this yet, on page

        17       32, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        18       Number 1344, Senate Print Number 5922, and ask

        19       that said bill retain its place on the Third

        20       Reading Calendar.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        22       objection.

        23                      Senator Present.











                                                             
6425

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         2       can we call up Calendar Number 870, please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  870.

         4       Secretary will read 870.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       870, by Senator Hannon, on page 20, Senate Bill

         7       Number 4900-B, an act to amend the Emergency

         8       Housing Rent Control Law, the Local Emergency

         9       Housing Rent Control Law, the Administrative

        10       Code of the city of New York.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Wait a minute.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Well -

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        18       Gold.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      First of all, Mr. President, I

        22       don't know how you would rule as to the debat

        23       ability of a motion to recommit, so I'm not











                                                             
6426

         1       going to make that motion yet, but I want to

         2       explain some things to this house.

         3                      I don't have the original print

         4       in front of me.  I saw it earlier today together

         5       with a roll call -- yeah.  Mr. President, I

         6       think -- I think there's something very

         7       fascinating about the way this bill has gotten

         8       to the floor.

         9                      This is 870? Where is the roll

        10       call?

        11                      Mr. President, this bill, as I

        12       understand it, was reported from the Housing

        13       Committee as Senate 4900, and in that condition

        14       it did not have many of the provisions it has as

        15       4900-B.  Indeed, Mr. President, I believe that

        16       4900-B as in front of us is a fraud because it

        17       has not been reported out by the Housing

        18       Committee, and while I understand, Mr.

        19       President, that it is the custom to have bills

        20       reported out and then the sponsor is responsible

        21       for making amendments, it seems to me that there

        22       are issues of good faith that should be a part

        23       of what we in government do.











                                                             
6427

         1                      But in looking at this roll call,

         2       I found something very fascinating.  We have a

         3       Committee on Agriculture, and it's chaired by

         4       Senator Kuhl, and those people in this

         5       legislative body have 61 men and women who

         6       exercise their choice and preference to be on

         7       that committee, as Senator Cook and LaValle,

         8       Present, Seward, Sheffer, on our side Senator

         9       Hoffmann, who is interested in the problems of

        10       the farm country, Senator Nolan, Stachowski and

        11       Senator Waldon.

        12                      We have a Committee on Cities and

        13       it's chaired by my colleague from Queens County

        14       Senator Padavan.  And who else is on the

        15       Committee on Cities? Senator Marchi from New

        16       York City, Senator Goodman from New York City,

        17       Senator Velella from New York City and, of

        18       course, there are some others and on our side

        19       we've got Senator Gonzalez and Waldon and

        20       Senator Dollinger from the great county of

        21       Monroe, city of Rochester, people interested,

        22       very much interested in what happens to our

        23       cities.











                                                             
6428

         1                      We also have a Committee on Local

         2       Government, and that's chaired by Senator Larkin

         3       and on that committee are people like Senator

         4       Cook and Senator Trunzo and Present and

         5       DeFrancisco, and again we have Senator Jones

         6       from upstate New York and Senator Hoffmann and

         7       Stachowski, people who are very, very interested

         8       in what happens to our local governments.

         9                      And then we have this bill which,

        10       in its original print, not the print before you,

        11       was voted out by the Housing Committee, and I

        12       said I ought to take a look at it.  And who is

        13       the Housing Committee? Obviously the people in

        14       this chamber who represent our tenant

        15       population, obviously people in this chamber who

        16       care about housing and care about where people

        17       live and their lives; so naturally the chairman

        18       is Senator Hannon, from outside the city of New

        19       York.  But that's O.K., because we also have

        20       from the Republican Party, Senator Daly who

        21       lived a mile or two from the city of New York,

        22       Senator Kuhl, Senator Cook, Senator Farley,

        23       Larkin, Sears, Pataki -- wait a minute.  I must











                                                             
6429

         1        -- I must have the wrong list.  I don't see

         2       Senator Goodman from the city of New York or

         3       Senator Padavan or Senator Mega or Senator

         4       Marchi or Senator Velella.

         5                      It can't be.  Housing? The

         6       committee that deals with the life blood of

         7       millions of people, and not one member from the

         8       city of New York selected to be on that

         9       committee, to stand up in the committee process

        10       itself for the tenants of the city of New York.

        11       I could tell you on our side of the aisle we

        12       have Senator Espada, Senator Markowitz,

        13       Montgomery, Paterson, Gonzalez.  They could have

        14       put in for Banks and Insurance and for

        15       everything else in the world.  This was

        16       important.

        17                      So, number one, I'm not shocked

        18       at all of the garbage that comes out of that

        19       committee against the tenant population of this

        20       state, and it's no coincidence that the members

        21       on your side of the aisle from the city of New

        22       York won't go near that committee with a

        23       ten-foot pole.











                                                             
6430

         1                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Daly.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  No, I won't yield,

         5       Senator.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  No, I won't yield,

         8       Senator Daly.

         9                      At any rate, having said what I

        10       said, Mr. President, I move that this house, as

        11       a matter of decency, recommit not 4900 which was

        12       voted out of the committee, but 4900-B which is

        13       a different bill, which was not considered by

        14       the Housing Committee even without a fair

        15       representation of the majority party in this

        16       house, and then if the Housing Committee or some

        17       other committee wants to send it back, we can

        18       deal with it at that point.

        19                      But I so move to recommit, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On

        22       the -

        23                      SENATOR DALY:  Will the Senator











                                                             
6431

         1       yield now?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

         3       you yield for a question from Senator Daly?

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, of course, I

         5       will.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President,

         7       would the Senator tell me the name of a Democrat

         8       member of this house from upstate New York or

         9       outside New York City who's on the Housing

        10       Committee?

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  None.

        12                      SENATOR DALY:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Having added -

        15       having asked the question and given you the

        16       answer, Senator Daly, the answer is none, and I

        17       will let my colleagues from upstate New York

        18       answer for their actions.

        19                      After all, I've got Senator

        20       Hoffmann, who is not on the committee and all

        21       she seemed to be worried about are the farmers

        22       and the local governments and the problems in

        23       her area.  If you want to brand her with that,











                                                             
6432

         1       my friends, you go ahead and do it.

         2                      Senator Jones, on the Local

         3       Government Committee, she can answer for her

         4       self because she doesn't need any defense of the

         5       people in Rochester and the people in Monroe

         6       County, who know she's up here understanding the

         7       problems of local government and fighting on

         8       those committees.  And just like the two

         9       Senators I mentioned --happen to be ladies.

        10       It's a problem you have on your side; you can't

        11       point to any -- but, Senator, the fact of the

        12       matter is that, let your members from New York

        13       City go back and explain why, in all of the

        14       glory of their committee assignments, not one of

        15       them has elected to be on the Housing Committee

        16       to stand up for the tenants of the city of New

        17       York at the committee meetings.

        18                      Now, listen, I want to be fair,

        19       and I said something in public earlier today and

        20       I'll repeat it in public now.  I think Senator

        21       Goodman and Senator Padavan have been making

        22       wonderful efforts in order to try to help this

        23       process move along.  But I know the game of good











                                                             
6433

         1       guy/bad guy, everybody here knows the game of

         2       good guy/bad guy.

         3                      There's an issue that's going to

         4       come before this house that affects my district

         5       and Senator Stavisky's district, and I can tell

         6       you there are members on this side of the aisle

         7       who have said to me, "Look, I don't know that

         8       much about it," or  "Yes, I've heard this on

         9       this side, this on the other side but, Manny, if

        10       it's in your district and you need my help

        11       fine."

        12                      But you guys don't do that; it's

        13       good guy/bad guy.  I think that it is disgusting

        14       if Roy Goodman, who has worked so hard or Frank

        15       Padavan, who has worked so hard, come to this

        16       floor and get no support from anybody on that

        17       side of the aisle.  Nobody.  Every day you call

        18       upon Roy Goodman and Frank Padavan and Chris

        19       Mega and Guy Velella and John Marchi and Serph'

        20       Maltese, et cetera, to help you up in upstate

        21       New York.  Two-thirds votes; you can't pass some

        22       of your local bills without two-thirds votes.

        23                      And not only are your people











                                                             
6434

         1       here, we're here.  And are you telling me that

         2       in an hour and 50 minutes you are going to make

         3       a fool of Roy Goodman? Because not one of you

         4       gentlemen are willing to understand the problem

         5       that he has representing these constituents? And

         6       that's an effort he's made and I commend him for

         7       the effort but I say, shame on you all that you

         8       would take the efforts of Goodman and Padavan

         9       and humiliate them in front of their

        10       constituents, telling the world they have no

        11       real power, telling the world they're

        12       unpersuasive.  I don't think they deserve that

        13       and that's what you're talkin' about.

        14                      You're talkin' about taking the

        15       real estate money, putting it in your pockets in

        16       your campaigns, and telling three or four of

        17       your colleagues that if they go down the toilet,

        18       that's their problem.  Well, that's your problem

        19       and maybe the public won't understand what good

        20       guy/bad guy is all about.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Hannon, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  Point of order.











                                                             
6435

         1       I'd suggest to the chair that the contents of

         2       the debate has left the bounds of decorum that

         3       one would expect on the floor of this body.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I would think that

         5       it's equal to the quality of your bill,

         6       Senator.

         7                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Daly, why do you rise?

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President,

        12       point of order.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        14       Daly has the floor, Senator Galiber.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Point of

        16       order.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  What's

        18       your point of order?

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  There's a point

        20       of order that you've not ruled on.  Would you

        21       rule on that point of order that the Senator

        22       from outside the city of New York has made?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I'm











                                                             
6436

         1       sorry.  What is -- what is the point of order?

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  The point of

         3       order that the Senator from outside the city of

         4       New York made.  You did not rule on that point

         5       of order.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

         7       you restate your point of order again, Senator

         8       Hannon? I thought it was rhetorical.

         9                      SENATOR HANNON:  I think my point

        10       was well made, as the Senator whose debate I had

        11       questioned has finished speaking.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Only for one

        13       minute.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I don't

        15       think it requires a ruling.

        16                      Senator Daly.

        17                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President,

        18       you've all heard the expression, those who live

        19       in glass houses should not throw stones, and I

        20       found the Deputy Minority Leader's comments

        21       quite interesting in accusing this side of

        22       loading up upstate as far as members of the

        23       Housing Committee and then I noted -- noted that











                                                             
6437

         1       all of the members from the Democratic Minority

         2       who serve on the Housing Committee are from New

         3       York City.  There is no one from upstate.

         4                      Perhaps that means to on the

         5       other side of the aisle that upstate has no

         6       housing problems, and I would share with you all

         7       and would agree that our housing problems are

         8       less than yours, and maybe one of the reasons

         9       for that is the subject that is before us

        10       tonight.  But, again, if you're going to make

        11       and particularly take exception and agree with

        12       Senator Hannon that some of the personal

        13       accusations made by Senator Gold, which truly

        14       disappointed me, because while I served as

        15       chairman of Housing for ten years and I served

        16       in the best interests of the state and, if

        17       Senator Gold wants to remain objective and talk

        18       about the issue at hand, I will, of course, as

        19       usual respect him.  But to hear the snide remark

        20       and the snide accusation does not -- it demeans

        21       Senator Gold.  It demeans this house.

        22                      And again, let me remind you that

        23       there are problems upstate.  We have the











                                                             
6438

         1       affordable home ownership program, the housing

         2       trust opportunity, and other housing problems.

         3       Thank God we don't have the problems of the city

         4       of New York, and I'm taken back in memory to the

         5       time so often when rent control was on -- the

         6       other side attempted to shove rent control down

         7       our throats which we refused to accept.

         8                      So, Mr. President, and Senator

         9       Gold knows, I have the utmost respect and

        10       personal liking for him, but I do think he was

        11       out of line.  I do think that -- that his

        12       comments, his personal comments, were not

        13       necessary and really all they're going to do is

        14       raise the emotions in this house, and on an

        15       issue that is as emotional as housing we don't

        16       need this exacerbation of this issue.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Thank

        18       you, Senator Daly.

        19                      Senator Gold, I believe we are

        20       considering your motion with respect to 4900-B.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  May I speak

        22       on the motion?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  You may











                                                             
6439

         1       speak on your motion.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         3                      I would like to respond to my

         4       colleague, Senator Daly, who knows the

         5       admiration I have for him, and, Senator Daly,

         6       there isn't a doubt in my mind when you chaired

         7       the Housing Committee you did what you thought

         8       was right from the perspective that you had.

         9                      What I'm saying, Senator, is that

        10       this Senate is made up of not one person or 61

        11       people elected from one city or one town; it's

        12       people elected from all over the state who are

        13       supposed to meet together to get various

        14       perespectives, and this committee doesn't have

        15       that, and it's a shame.

        16                      And if you think I was being

        17       snide, Senator, you're wrong.  I wasn't being

        18       snide.  I was in front of a tenant group earlier

        19       today, and I spoke from my heart and I said I

        20       felt badly that Senator Goodman was putting up a

        21       gallant fight and getting no support.  That's

        22       not snide.  You know, I've said this before.

        23       How does a political issue get born? It gets











                                                             
6440

         1       born by one group of people doing the wrong

         2       thing and being stubborn about it.  All we have

         3       to do, Senator Daly, is to stop forcing tenants

         4       to grovel to Albany every two years, stop making

         5       unions grovel every two years, et cetera, et

         6       cetera, and just pass our laws and then there's

         7       no issue.

         8                      If we had had this extender

         9       passed two or three weeks ago, we wouldn't have

        10       an issue, political or otherwise.  We would have

        11       done the right thing and we would have been

        12       gone.  So there's nothing snide about my feeling

        13       badly that you, on your side of the aisle, two

        14       or three perhaps people who are working very

        15       hard to try to get this issue gone and out of

        16       everybody's hair -- maybe you got two people who

        17       care about the tenants of the City and want

        18       these people to have some comfort -- but if they

        19       are not supported by the other members of your

        20       house, of your party, then everything I've said

        21       is absolutely true.  It's not snide.  It's

        22       mathematical.

        23                      I want to tell you, Senator Daly,











                                                             
6441

         1       I would always rather see the right thing happen

         2       and me be wrong.  You prove I'm wrong.  Bring

         3       out a two-year extender or bring out a permanent

         4       bill, and you people over there give enough

         5       votes to pass it and then I was wrong, and I'll

         6       have to eat my words, and I'll be delighted to

         7       do it because we would have protected the people

         8       who need protection.

         9                      But if it turns out that I'm

        10       right, Senator Daly, there's nothing snide about

        11       it.  I've just stated the fact.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        13       Leichter.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      I must say the response that

        17       Senator Gold's comments inspired just makes me

        18       think that he's hit a sore nerve, that I didn't

        19       hear him say anything that in any way demeaned

        20       this house.  I think he made an accurate

        21       political assessment.  Unfortunately, it's a

        22       true assessment.  I didn't hear him use any

        23       language that would be considered improper.  I











                                                             
6442

         1       think he pointed out, I think with some sorrow,

         2       that the members of the Majority from the city

         3       of New York are treated like junior members.

         4                      When the Senator from the

         5       Adirondacks, my very distinguished and dear

         6       friend says, "Nothing in my district, you're not

         7       going to buy -- have the state buy any land,"

         8       that becomes the policy of the majority.  When

         9       Senator Goodman and Senator Padavan and Senator

        10       Velella and others say, "This drives a stake

        11       through the heart of the middle class and

        12       working people in New York," you yawn.  Forget

        13       it, because you want to make a political

        14       statement.

        15                      But I want to get back to the

        16       point that Senator Gold first made, and I think

        17       it's an important point which is, is this a

        18       proper bill before us? When the calendar was

        19       called, and I looked, 870 and I saw, Oh-oh,

        20       we're going to debate something has to do with

        21       treble damages, rent over-charge, and so on.

        22       Next thing I know, we're having a full-fledged

        23       debate on a so-called luxury decontrol, actually











                                                             
6443

         1       a bill that undermines and scuttles rent control

         2       and rent protection for the millions of tenants

         3       in the city of New York and throughout the

         4       state.

         5                      There is no relationship between

         6       the bill that was reported out of committee and

         7       the bill that is before us.  This makes a

         8       mockery, a mockery, out of the committee

         9       system.  This bill should not be considered, and

        10       I think Senator Gold's point was that people who

        11       have some understanding and knowledge of

        12       housing, and he regrets the fact that that

        13       committee doesn't include Majority members from

        14       the city of New York, but it does include some

        15       very knowledgeable people from our side of the

        16       aisle who are on this committee, who understand

        17       the housing issues certainly as it pertains to

        18       rent control to an extent that the distinguished

        19       chairman and again, my friend and a very like

        20       able fellow, but he doesn't understand housing

        21       in the city of New York.

        22                      And if you take a look at the

        23       bill, and we'll have more chance to debate it











                                                             
6444

         1       although I hope very much that you will do the

         2       right thing and recommit it, because it's not

         3       properly before us, you'll see it raises 101

         4       issues that need to be considered carefully by a

         5       committee of knowledgeable members because it's

         6       full of loopholes.  It doesn't work.  First of

         7       all, it doesn't work because of the extent to

         8       which it undermines rent control.

         9                      Well, let me just raise some of

        10       the technical questions, then we'll have maybe

        11       more opportunity later on to deal with some of

        12       the policy issues and they're terribly

        13       important.  They affect, as I said, millions of

        14       people.  They affect whether we're going to be

        15       able to keep the middle class in New York and

        16       working people in the city of New York.  They

        17       affect the working of the city of New York and,

        18       Senator Daly, you know, some of your comments

        19       about the city of New York and so on, and I

        20       trust you love the city, I think you were born

        21       there and came from there, although at times I

        22       must say I see a great deal of New York City

        23       bashing going on, and this bill, unfortunately,











                                                             
6445

         1       is also New York City bashing.

         2                      So we need to discuss some of the

         3       greater policy issues.  Ut I want to point to

         4       some of the technical questions because I think

         5       they make the point that Senator Gold tried to

         6       drive home, which is the importance of having a

         7       bill that's reported out of committee on our

         8       floor that reflects the work of the committee

         9       and not a bill that's reported out and then you

        10       find a totally different bill, not a bill on

        11       treble damages.  Just take a look at 870, 4900,

        12       as first reported by the committee, two pages, a

        13       few lines, dealing with penalties.  The

        14       memorandum states this bill provides that treble

        15       damages in rent over-charge cases may not be

        16       assessed solely on the basis that an owner has

        17       failed to timely file a registration statement.

        18                      Senator Hannon, you completely

        19       changed the bill.  There's no relationship to

        20       what was reported out of committee.  Now, we

        21       have a bill that talks about something that's

        22       airily described in here as luxury decontrol,

        23       poorly defined, poorly worded, poorly thought











                                                             
6446

         1       out, most harmful in its effect.

         2                      And again, take a look at some of

         3       the technical questions that were never

         4       considered, that needed to be addressed in a

         5       committee.  Primary residence.  What is primary

         6       residence? That's an incredibly complex issue,

         7       not defined, not dealt with in a sensible

         8       understandable manner.  The bill fails to

         9       specify how the owner is to serve the income

        10       certification on his tenant or the manner to be

        11       used in returning the certification to the

        12       owner.

        13                      The orders of decontrol make no

        14       sense.  They come in at different times.  The

        15       income verification, how many income

        16       verification proceedings would DHCR have to

        17       conduct each year.  How much staff would be

        18       needed? How would this function be funded?

        19                      The whole issue that for the

        20       first time in the state of New York, we're

        21       saying that tax returns can be made public to

        22       another agency for hundreds of thousands of New

        23       Yorkers.  We're breaching -- we're breaching a











                                                             
6447

         1       confidentiality and a privacy that even a

         2       district attorney may not pierce.  Nevertheless

         3       you airily provide that the Department of

         4       Taxation will make tax information available on

         5       hundreds and thousands of New Yorkers.

         6                      What limits are there on the

         7       requirement that tenants provide, quote, "such

         8       information as the DHCR and the Department of

         9       Taxation and Finance shall require?" Will

        10       tenants be given the opportunity to appear and

        11       explain any questions that may arise concerning

        12       such information? Suppose Taxation makes a

        13       mistake.  Under this bill, it doesn't matter.

        14       You're out.

        15                      How does the Department of

        16       Taxation and Finance determine the total income

        17       if the additional information has been provided

        18       by DHCR? The bill requires that this information

        19       be provided to the DHCR within 45 days.  Which

        20       agency makes the determination?

        21                      Would tenants be in default if an

        22       uncooperative or unavailable co-tenant refused

        23       to provide information requested by DHCR? Could











                                                             
6448

         1       a hostile co-tenant cause a tenant's apartment

         2       to be decontrolled by refusing to respond to

         3       DHCR's notice requesting additional information?

         4                      If an occupant has insufficient

         5       income to file a tax return for the preceding

         6       year, why would that person's income from a

         7       prior year be used to determine the total house

         8       hold income for the preceding year? And I can go

         9       on and on.

        10                      My colleagues, we're dealing with

        11       an extremely sensitive issue, an issue that

        12       affects millions of New Yorkers.  It has the

        13       gravest consequence for the city of New York and

        14       other communities in New York State.  It's -- if

        15       you're going to go down this road, it needs to

        16       be done carefully.  It needs to be done with

        17       intelligence.  It needs to be done with

        18       consideration.  Needs to be done by a committee,

        19       needs to have input.  You need to have public

        20       hearings.  I don't believe there was ever a

        21       public hearing on this bill as amended.

        22                      Don't pass political statements.

        23       Leave that for the stump box, if you will.  But











                                                             
6449

         1       what you're doing now is playing with the lives

         2       of people.  But first of all, as Senator Gold

         3       pointed out, you also are playing with the rules

         4       of this house.  You're making a mockery of the

         5       procedures that we have, and Senator Gold is

         6       absolutely correct, this bill should not be

         7       before us.

         8                      You want to put out a bill, send

         9       it through the committee, have the committee

        10       consider it and then put it out.  This bill is

        11       not properly before us, and I want to support

        12       Senator Gold's motion.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        14       Connor.

        15                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      I rise in support of Senator

        18       Gold's motion, and I think, you know, some of

        19       the issues that Senator Leichter pointed to,

        20       that the committee never had an opportunity to

        21       explore, that their staff never had an

        22       opportunity on which to give counsel, raise

        23       grave concerns.











                                                             
6450

         1                      Example: A police officer, two

         2       police officers, they're married to each other.

         3       With overtime, length of service on the force,

         4       some other factors, their income reaches a

         5       certain level, perhaps one of the spouses has

         6       income in excess of $100,000 from whatever

         7       endeavor.  But the police officer is shot in the

         8       line of duty, total disability, gets disability

         9       income, tax-exempt under state law, doesn't have

        10       to report that, doesn't have to file a tax

        11       return, but is an occupant of the apartment.

        12                      What does this bill say? Well, go

        13       back to before he got shot protecting us on our

        14       streets and look at what his income was then.

        15       Maybe he had to moonlight.  Maybe he owned a

        16       business then.  Maybe he did other things.  His

        17       income was high.  Now he's totally disabled.

        18                      Did anybody consider this? Did

        19       any of the committee staff consider this? Was it

        20       an issue? I don't know the answers.  I suspect

        21       that, under this bill, that police officer,

        22       totally disabled in the line of duty, his family

        23       could be jeopardized by this, that an unfair











                                                             
6451

         1       standard could be used.  They go back to when

         2       you had healthy -- when you had healthy,

         3       non-injured wage earners.  That's the last tax

         4       return, because that's before the disability.

         5                      Did anybody consider this? Do you

         6       really want to hurt a family like that? I'm not

         7        -- I don't, you know, I'm not sure.  Maybe the

         8       question ought to be asked, a line of duty

         9       widow, the widow of a police officer or the

        10       widower of a police officer killed in the line

        11       of duty, I don't know.  I really don't know the

        12       answer.  I look around for some counsel but

        13       somebody ought to say, Gee, is that taxable

        14       income, that pension? Well, Gee, it's not, then

        15       you go back and you look at when, before the

        16       police officer was killed and you look at that

        17       income.  Is that a fair evaluation of that

        18       family's income for today for purposes, for

        19       present purposes of whether they ought to be

        20       rent protected?

        21                      Your bill is making income the

        22       standard.  So let's look at it.  A family of

        23       very -- I can give you a large family, seven or











                                                             
6452

         1       eight children, very moderate income, 20-,

         2       $25,000 a year, 30-, $40,000 a year, $50,000 a

         3       year.  Lo and behold, four or five of the

         4       children volunteer for the military.  One's in

         5       Europe, one's in Korea, proudly wearing our

         6       nation's uniform, earning income.

         7                      What's their primary residence?

         8       Well, I've done a lot of residence cases in

         9       connection with election proceedings.  It's

        10       clear under the law of the state of New York and

        11       under federal law, that they're entitled to

        12       maintain their primary residence in New York at

        13       the parents' home, and many, many do.  Many do

        14       for what -- you know, you're assigned in

        15       Germany.  Where else are you going to vote from

        16       but your last U. S. residence.  You don't lose

        17       your residence.  You can be away for 20 years in

        18       the military and your primary residence is the

        19       place you left.

        20                      Now, do we take all those adult

        21       children serving their country and add up the

        22       five or six incomes involved and add it to the

        23       parents' income and say, What a wealthy family.











                                                             
6453

         1       Let's kick 'em out of the apartment.  Let's

         2       reward them for this patriotic family that has

         3       five or six children joining the military or

         4       four or five.

         5                      Did anybody consider this? I'd

         6       like to hear from the committee staff that

         7       worked on this.  I'd like to have my colleagues

         8       at a committee meeting pose these questions and

         9       get answers because what you're proposing to do

        10       here without benefit of any kind of airing in

        11       committee is preemptively decide something

        12       without weighing the merits of any of these

        13       considerations.

        14                      That's why Senator Gold's motion

        15       is not frivolous.  It's not tweaking the

        16       Majority.  It's not trying to use technicalities

        17       to delay or obfuscate.  It's right to the

        18       point.  Do you have the answers at your finger

        19       tips to those questions? Should we rush ahead in

        20       the next hour and a half without even a

        21       committee considering these? Can somebody stand

        22       up and answer for sure all these questions I

        23       posed? And I've looked at this for a few











                                                             
6454

         1       minutes.

         2                      These questions concern me.  It

         3       ought to concern you.  The police widow, the

         4       disabled police officer, the family with many

         5       children in military service, yet a family of

         6       moderate means.  I don't think these are

         7       fanciful incidents.  These are the kinds of

         8       lives our citizens lead.  These are real

         9       questions that nobody's considered because

        10       someone theoretically has crafted this bill,

        11       thought, Aah, and believe me, I have little

        12       sympathy for multi-millionaire movie stars who

        13       own three or four houses and yet have a very

        14       cheap apartment on Central Park.  I mean I -

        15       these -- and I understand these are the headline

        16       cases.  These are the cases to which people are

        17       responding here, and saying, Aah, these rich

        18       people shouldn't have it.

        19                      Let's talk about ordinary New

        20       Yorkers, ordinary New Yorker who finds out, Gee,

        21       I've been out of work for nine years, I've been

        22       disabled for eight years.  I haven't had any

        23       taxable income.  Yeah, Gee, I hit Pik-4 for











                                                             
6455

         1       $200,000 nine years ago.  It's all gone now with

         2       the medical bills after my accident.

         3                      Now, you mean to tell me I can't

         4       have a rent-stabilized apartment because my last

         5       tax return showed I made $203,000 the year I hit

         6       Pik-4 for $175,000? It's all gone for medical

         7       bills.  Now you goin' to wheel my wheelchair out

         8       in the street? I'm not going to have an

         9       apartment? I don't get my lease renewed?

        10                      Who considered this? These are

        11       real cases.  These are real cases, and I don't

        12       think they're fanciful.  This happens to real

        13       people.  What mechanism is in this bill to

        14       address those kinds of concerns? Are they the

        15       people you want to get by this bill? I don't

        16       think so.  I think this bill should have been

        17       brought forth in the committee.  It should have

        18       been studied.  These kinds of questions should

        19       have been addressed.

        20                      That's what legislation's about.

        21       It's not about last minute cliff-hanging bills

        22       that threaten people.  I mean are they really

        23       the people? Those same headlines that scream











                                                             
6456

         1       about the $3 million a year movie star with the

         2       apartment, will turn around and come down on

         3       your heads about the guy who hit Pik-4 eight

         4       years ago, was injured, spent all his money on

         5       medical bills, doesn't have any income today,

         6       yet under this bill is considered rich,

         7       affluent.  We have to decontrol his apartment.

         8                      Those same headlines will scream

         9       at you about the police widow or the poor woman

        10       in Brooklyn with five or six kids in the

        11       military service who's now deemed to be

        12       affluent, who is now being subjected to

        13       decontrol.

        14                      I don't think this bill has been

        15       properly studied, and I'm supporting the motion

        16       to recommit it.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        18       Bruno.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Would the Senator

        20       answer a question?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        22       Connor, will you yield to a question from

        23       Senator Bruno?











                                                             
6457

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Certainly, but,

         2       Senator, may I say, I don't have the answers to

         3       those questions.  I posed the questions because

         4       I think they should be -

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Oh.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         7       Gentlemen, will you address your remarks to the

         8       Chair, please.

         9                      Senator Bruno.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        11       that's exactly what I was going to ask.  Since

        12       we're hearing an awful lot of rhetoric on the

        13       floor, whether or not the good Senator had any

        14       recommendations and how we might resolve this

        15       very difficult situation that we in this chamber

        16       would like to resolve some time within this next

        17       hour, but if we're going to just grandstand and

        18       not have any recommendations, then I think we're

        19       going to waste each others' time.

        20                      We are looking to resolve this,

        21       Senator, and we would look for any constructive

        22       suggestions you might have.

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  O.K. I have in











                                                             
6458

         1       my hand -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

         3       me, Senator Connor. Senator Bruno, you finished?

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         7       Connor.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  I have a

         9       constructive suggestion.  The Majority Leader,

        10       the chairman of the committee, the staffs that

        11       are involved in this ought to go and meet with

        12       their counterparts in the Assembly.  We're now

        13       close enough, the pressure is on, and negotiate,

        14       negotiate all the issues.

        15                      This issue didn't arise a half

        16       hour ago when we took the floor.  This issue -

        17       we knew this was coming for months.  The way you

        18       do legislation is by negotiation.  That's why

        19       the point of this motion, Mr. President.  Of a

        20       committee, a committee ought to discuss

        21       provisions with these kinds of implications and

        22       I suggest that negotiations ought to go forward.

        23       They ought to be in good faith, and I don't











                                                             
6459

         1       think it helps negotiations by bringing out a

         2       bill that's so full of holes that attempts on

         3       principle to get at a principle and, in the

         4       meantime, poses a great threat to hurting real

         5       people with real family situations.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         7       Bruno, the floor is still yours, if you request

         8       it.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      I'd like to just share with the

        12       Senator something that he may already be aware

        13       of, that at this time negotiations are taking

        14       place, to my knowledge.  Our chair of our

        15       committee is not here because he is deliberating

        16       over how we might resolve this issue and

        17       answering some of your rhetorical questions, we

        18       are open, we -- some of us here -- to resolving

        19       this with a different approach and different

        20       numbers.

        21                      There is a bill that is printed,

        22       to my knowledge, that will be surfacing very

        23       shortly that I believe comes a long ways toward











                                                             
6460

         1       a compromise. But our concern -- my concern, let

         2       me say, as a sponsor of a bill that has been on

         3       this floor for the last several months, that

         4       deals with luxury apartment decontrol -- not

         5       rent decontrol, luxury apartment decontrol -

         6       that's been on the floor for several months,

         7       Senator. It's been live, but we have not dealt

         8       with it because we have been trying, negotiating

         9       to resolve this issue in some realistic

        10       reasonable way.

        11                      But compromise means compromise.

        12       It doesn't mean "my way or no way."  We're not

        13       trying to dispossess.  We're not trying to hurt

        14       people who are in rent-controlled apartments.

        15       We're trying to be helpful.  We're trying to

        16       protect them.  We're trying to make sure that

        17       they have a place to live, that they can afford,

        18       but the bill that I introduced, and many of us

        19       have passed over the last several years, does

        20       deal with undeserving people where the poor

        21       people of New York State subsidize the rich, and

        22       that's exactly what you have been supporting,

        23       Senator, subsidizing the rich on the backs of











                                                             
6461

         1       the poor, and we think that the time has come to

         2       stop that and do what is right for the great

         3       majority of the people of this state and not

         4       protect a few thousand people that will be

         5       affected by luxury apartment decontrol.

         6                      So let's be realistic and let's

         7       talk realistically to each other, and let's get

         8       the situation resolved.  But again, if we're

         9       going to grandstand, then we're going to be here

        10       in the morning and you're going to hurt an awful

        11       lot of people in this state.

        12                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Sorry,

        14       Senator Connor.  Senator Goodman is next on the

        15       list. I'll be glad to -

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Just a brief

        17       question.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        19       Connor, Senator Goodman yields.

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        21       President. Thank you, Senator Goodman.

        22                      Let me just say that my remarks,

        23       you know, my remarks were no more grandstanding











                                                             
6462

         1       than bringing this bill out, calling it up for

         2       its third reading, in the absence of an

         3       agreement.  That's a form of grandstanding or

         4       playing right up to the edge, if you will, that

         5       I think isn't necessary.  If you're going to

         6       negotiate, negotiate; don't grandstand. Don't

         7       grandstand with bills.

         8                      The fact of the matter is that,

         9       and I appreciate what Senator Bruno says and

        10       he's talking about a principle: The poor

        11       shouldn't subsidize the rich.  The poor

        12       shouldn't subsidize the rich when we do school

        13       aid.  The poor in New York State shouldn't

        14       subsidize the rich suburbs in Long Island when

        15       we do school aid.  That's a principle.

        16                      The reality is we get a budget;

        17       we have to make it work, and sometimes you can

        18       look at it and analyze it and say, Gee, the poor

        19       are subsidizing the rich.  And I could go on and

        20       on and on.  The principle is fine; the practical

        21       implementation is not always possible and it's,

        22       as a matter of principle to say these very

        23       wealthy people shouldn't have rent-controlled











                                                             
6463

         1       apartments or rent-stabilized apartments, they

         2       don't need that protection for these luxury

         3       apartments, that's a great principle.

         4                      I think the points that I brought

         5       up, rather than grandstanding, are pointing out

         6       how it is very difficult, if not impossible, as

         7       a practical matter to do anything about that

         8       principle in this area.  To get the few you put

         9       in jeopardy many others who simply don't fall

        10       into that luxury or affluent category.

        11                      So I can subscribe, Senator

        12       Bruno, to the principle. What I'm saying is your

        13       bill is not practical.  It's not a practical way

        14       to do it.  I'm not sure dealing with an area

        15       like rent regulation that covers literally

        16       millions of tenants, tens of thousands of

        17       apartments, that there's a practical way.

        18                      One other practicality, Senator.

        19       This bill does something that we have never done

        20       in any other area, and that is opened up the

        21       whole Tax Department to giving to another agency

        22       people's tax returns or tax information.  We

        23       don't do that; the federal government doesn't do











                                                             
6464

         1       that, not to any agency.  We don't even give it

         2       to D.A.s.  Grand juries can't get it.

         3                      So what -- we're suddenly going

         4       to give it to DHCR, because a landlord files a

         5       complaint.  The whole fundamental principle of

         6       voluntary compliance, which the federal and

         7       state systems depend on, is suddenly for the

         8       first time in history opened up.

         9                      The principle, Senator Bruno, the

        10       poor shouldn't support the rich.  Wealthy,

        11       wealthy people shouldn't have luxury apartments

        12       that are rent regulated. The principle sounds

        13       good. The practicalities are worse.  The remedy

        14       is worse than the illness.  That's the problem.

        15       The remedy is worse than the illness.

        16                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        18       Goodman.

        19                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

        20       the serious negotiations relating to rent

        21       regulation have now commenced.  They're not

        22       occurring in this room.  I'm advised that they

        23       are now occurring outside of this room and that,











                                                             
6465

         1       for the first time, apparently the parties

         2       involved are coming to grips with the two

         3       principal serious issues which must be bridged

         4       if we're to achieve any understanding on behalf

         5       of tenant protection.

         6                      What the design and purpose was

         7       of bringing this bill to the floor at this hour,

         8       I do not know, and I shall not comment upon,

         9       other than to say that this bill is not a

        10       serious bill and that this bill is plainly and

        11       obviously a one-house bill with no prospect

        12       whatsoever of being passed in the other house.

        13       Perhaps somebody felt that it was necessary to

        14       keep us amply occupied this evening while the

        15       negotiations are under way.  I find this an

        16       inappropriate way to keep ourselves occupied.

        17                      Mr. President, there's much that

        18       needs to be said about the necessity of

        19       providing protection for 2 million people in the

        20       state of New York, almost overwhelmingly

        21       representatives of the middle class, the middle,

        22       middle class and the lower middle class who have

        23       an enormous stake in the outcome of the











                                                             
6466

         1       deliberations in this house.

         2                      Suffice it to say that to go into

         3       a lengthy debate with regard to a bill that is

         4       on the road to nowhere serves no useful purpose

         5       and might carry with it the danger of derailing

         6       certain conversations which, to put it mildly,

         7       are on a sensitive track.

         8                      So, for that reason, I shall say

         9       no more about this bill except that it is

        10       certainly my intention to vote against the basic

        11       bill as a demonstration of concern and as a way

        12       of sending a strong message to a group that are

        13       participating in negotiations in which several

        14       of us have had some voice.

        15                      Mr. President, I ask for the

        16       patience of the house.  I very much hope that

        17       within a very few minutes, we will have revealed

        18       to us the core conversations which relate to the

        19       two vital matters that must be decided, namely

        20       what can be done to protect 2 million tenants

        21       and what can be done to restore some stability

        22       to a situation which has amounted to nothing

        23       more nor less than a two-year annual roller











                                                             
6467

         1       coaster ride which has subjected good and

         2       innocent people to a type of municipal tension

         3       to which they should never have been subject.

         4                      I think it's -- in a sense,

         5       unfortunate, to say the least, that a group of

         6       people should come up here accompanied by unpaid

         7       lobbyists, people that do this out of the

         8       goodness of their hearts and the devotion to

         9       their cause, having to take out of their own

        10       hard-pressed wallets the fare that brings them

        11       up and back on buses, having told their buses

        12       not to return at 6:00 p.m., and now hanging on

        13       until some time after midnight which may get

        14       them home after dawn.  There are approximately

        15       500 people who did this today, a number from my

        16       own constituency and a number from many of your

        17       constituencies, and this is just a token of the

        18       type of inconvenience, at the very least, to

        19       which we're subjecting them.

        20                      This should not happen, and it's

        21       my hope that the final product which, please

        22       God, will be unveiled within a matter of a few

        23       moments, will be one that will justify the











                                                             
6468

         1       effort that they had to put forth.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  On the motion.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

         4       me.  We don't allow any demonstrations in the

         5       Senate.  Thank you very much.

         6                      The question is on the motion.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Slow roll call,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Well,

        10       just a moment.  Let me say the question is on

        11       the motion of Senator Gold.  A vote in the

        12       affirmative is a vote to recommit the bill.  A

        13       vote in the negative is a vote not to recommit

        14       the bill.

        15                      Slow roll call has been

        16       requested.  The Secretary will please ring the

        17       bells and call the roll slowly.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush

        19       excused.

        20                      Senator Bruno.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Connor.

        23                      (There was no response. )











                                                             
6469

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator Daly.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         6                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         8       Dollinger.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President, I rise to explain my vote.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I'm intrigued

        13       by this debate.  I don't live in a

        14       rent-controlled community.  I just wanted to

        15       comment on one thing that follows up on comments

        16       made by Senator Gold.  It deals with the issue

        17       that I've learned in this house called respect

        18       for this house.

        19                      I'd call all your attention to

        20       that night back in early May when we talked

        21       about the Comptroller.  The Majority Leader came

        22       into the chamber that day and mentioned my name

        23       and talked about the respect for this house and











                                                             
6470

         1       how one of the important things that you learn

         2       as a member was respect for your peers and

         3       respect for the process that we engage in.

         4                      I knew -- I looked at Senator

         5       Marino and thought, I am learning respect for

         6       this house, I'm learning respect for the people

         7       I debate against, the people who have strongly

         8       felt views, even though I may not share them and

         9       strongly felt and argued positions on both sides

        10       of the aisle.

        11                      What disappoints me about what

        12       transpires tonight is that I don't think it

        13       shows respect for this house.  We've brought a

        14       bill out that is going to have substantial

        15       problems with it.  I think Senator Connor laid

        16       them out in great detail; Senator Gold has laid

        17       them out, a bill that may not have a future, as

        18       Senator Goodman suggests.  And yet where is the

        19       respect for this house? We don't even take it

        20       out of the committee.  We don't even give it to

        21       the committee that has jurisdiction over housing

        22       matters.  Instead, we bring it from some unknown

        23       place to this body.











                                                             
6471

         1                      If the message to me as a

         2       newcomer is to learn respect for this house, I'd

         3       see that respect ebbing away when we all of a

         4       sudden change the rules because we've now run to

         5       within 70 minutes of the bewitching hour for an

         6       important thing for 2 million people in this

         7       state.  I wonder if the people who come to argue

         8       on this issue, our friends from the tenants

         9       associations, how can they have any respect for

        10       us? How can they have any respect for this

        11       institution, if they draw their conclusions from

        12       our performance tonight?

        13                      My suggestion is they can't

        14       generate any respect for us and, if we really

        15       respect this house, we'll commit this bill back

        16       to the Housing Committee and do it the way it

        17       ought to be done.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        19       Dollinger, how do you vote?

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I vote yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  And I

        22       would ask Senators who are going to rise to

        23       explain their votes to remember that one











                                                             
6472

         1       explains one's vote in this house for two

         2       minutes, and from now on the two-minute rule

         3       will be requested.

         4                      Senator Galiber.

         5                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Just on a point

         6       of, I hope we don't have to use it, Mr.

         7       President, but I thought we'd cleared this

         8       matter up yesterday, that we have the two

         9       minutes unless someone objects to that person

        10       speaking past two minutes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Hold it

        12       for a second.  We have Senators who have come up

        13       here, Senator Galiber, and requested that we

        14       recognize the two-minute rule.  I'm requesting

        15       that Senators voluntarily adhere to the two

        16       minute rule.  Thereafter, of course, any Senator

        17       can stand up and ask that the Senator finish his

        18       or her remarks because two minutes have expired.

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Would that mean

        20       we say yes, we need an objection from someone in

        21       order to enforce the two-minute rule?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Yes.  We

        23       will ask for an objection from someone.











                                                             
6473

         1                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

         2       point of order.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         4       Goodman, your point of order.

         5                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Could we have

         6       some order in the chamber.  Your conversation is

         7       almost inaudible.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  May we

         9       please have some quiet in the chamber.  We are

        10       on a roll call.  Yes, Senator Galiber, we will

        11       take objections after two minutes but, as every

        12       Senator should know having, I'm sure, been very

        13       well acquainted with the rules of this chamber,

        14       a Senator who is explaining his or her vote

        15       should speak for two minutes.  That is a simple

        16       request that is made.  Please continue the roll

        17       call.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        19                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      Senator Galiber.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes.











                                                             
6474

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

         3       explain my vote.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         5       Gold.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  I would just like

         7       to point out, and I appreciate that Senator

         8       Leichter made this point, but I want to say it a

         9       little differently.

        10                      4900, which was the bill reported

        11       out of committee, is basically less than two

        12       pages of writing.  The bill that is before us

        13       goes onto its 18th page.  Now, there's nothing

        14       clearer to show that they're two completely

        15       different pieces of legislation.

        16                      I would like to also answer this

        17       silly, silly comment that is made that luxury

        18       apartment dwellers are in somehow living there

        19       off the backs of the poor.  What utter garbage.

        20       If we have luxury decontrol as it is suggested

        21       by the Republicans, I don't see anything in the

        22       bill that says that these higher rents are going

        23       to be given to poorer people to help them along











                                                             
6475

         1       day by day.  Those higher rents are going into

         2       the pockets of the landlords.  Who doesn't know

         3       that?

         4                      This bill is a bill to give

         5       people who knew the rules extra money.  I'm

         6       waiting to hear how many of these landlords who

         7       own the luxury apartments bought them 40, 50, 80

         8       years ago.  They bought them a year, two, five,

         9       ten; they knew the rules.  They did the math

        10       like everybody else, and they decided to make

        11       the investment.

        12                      I don't blame them for wanting to

        13       get the bonanza.  They've paid for that bonanza

        14       in campaign contributions and now they want

        15       their day.  They paid for it by advertising in

        16       the newspapers and getting editorial support.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

        18       me, Senator Gold.  Senator Hannon has requested

        19       that you have two minutes to explain your vote,

        20       Senator, and we are on a roll call.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  And, therefore, I

        22       vote yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator











                                                             
6476

         1       Gold in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

         2       call.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       Gonzalez.

         5                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Goodman.

         7                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Halperin.

        10                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Yes.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

        12                      SENATOR HANNON:  Rise to explain

        13       my vote on this motion, although I'll get into

        14       the -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        16       Hannon.

        17                      SENATOR HANNON:  -- merits of

        18       things later.

        19                      It's ironic that the Minority

        20       Leader would attempt to defuse this issue by

        21       talking about procedural items only or almost

        22       only, and not going to the merits.  The trouble

        23       with his procedural argument is it's without any











                                                             
6477

         1       water whatsoever.

         2                      In order to get a better

         3       procedures points that have been brought about,

         4       about income verification, amendments were made

         5       to the bill.  Senator Bruno's bill, which passed

         6       this house last year and is a luxury decontrol,

         7       has been on the calendar for months, and that is

         8       the guts of this bill.

         9                      So all the arguments, I think,

        10       about procedure are without -- totally without

        11       merit, and I vote no.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Continue

        13       the roll call.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        15       Hoffmann.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Holland.

        18                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        20                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

        22                      (There was no audible response. )

        23                      Senator Kuhl.











                                                             
6478

         1                      SENATOR KUHL:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

         3                      SENATOR LACK:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  No.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

         7                      (There was no audible response. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Leichter.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        11       to explain my vote.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        13       Leichter to explain his vote.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        15       I think it's ironic to have you talking about

        16       the importance of members adhering to the rules

        17       of the house, referring to a minor technical

        18       rule, when one of our major rules is being

        19       violated by this rule being on the floor.

        20                      Senator Hannon says there hasn't

        21       been a discussion of the merits.  Well, the

        22       bill, frankly, Senator, has no merit.  It's a

        23       pitiful effort to deal with an extremely complex











                                                             
6479

         1       and extremely sensitive issue and should have

         2       been done through committees, through hearings,

         3       through careful considerations, not to have a

         4       political statement of this sort.

         5                      We're almost one hour from rent

         6       control expiring in the state of New York.  It's

         7       a frightening thought that we would let this

         8       come to this pass, that we would put 2 million

         9       people at risk. We still have time to recommit

        10       this bill and to start a serious process, in the

        11       meantime giving people the security that they're

        12       entitled to.

        13                      Mr. President, I vote yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        15       Leichter in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

        16       call.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

        18                          SENATOR LEVY:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

        20                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Nay.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.











                                                             
6480

         1                      SENATOR MARCHI:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino.

         3                      (Negative indication. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  No.

         5                      Senator Markowitz.

         6                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Explain my

         7       vote.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Markowitz to explain his vote.

        10                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I never

        11       thought the day would come when I would hear

        12       Senator Bruno call for welfare for landlords.

        13       Never thought I'd ever hear you with the

        14       crocodile tears talk about the poor people in

        15       our society.

        16                      Senator Bruno, I'm enthused that

        17       suddenly you've been reinvigorated with a spirit

        18       of concern and care for the less fortunate of

        19       our society.  I hope tonight will be a rebirth

        20       of hearing from you very often in terms of

        21       fighting for the downtrodden in our society.

        22                      Senator Hannon, from the day you

        23       got this chairmanship, Senator, from the day you











                                                             
6481

         1       began your hearings some months ago, you were on

         2       a mission, on a mission to, under your

         3       leadership, change the rent laws the way they've

         4       been.

         5                      A very simple thing to say this

         6       is a landlord welfare bill, there's no denying

         7       it.  I say, as a tenant leader -- and I consider

         8       myself a tenant leader as well as a State

         9       Senator -- here's what I offer the Republican

        10       Party.  Let's renew this rent law as we have it

        11       today for two years, and let the landlords open

        12       the books.  Open the books, Senator Hannon.

        13       Open the books.

        14                      (Applause from the gallery. )

        15       Let's find out once and for all.  Open the

        16       books, let them see.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        18       Markowitz.  Senator Markowitz.

        19                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I am not

        20       finished my two minutes yet.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  No, you

        22       can have your extra time.  Ladies and gentlemen

        23       in the gallery, we're sorry, but applause is not











                                                             
6482

         1       permitted in the Senate chamber.  If you're

         2       going to continue to applaud, you're going to

         3       force me to have the gallery emptied.

         4                      Now, this is the second time I've

         5       mentioned it.  Please, you're welcome here to

         6       hear what is proceeding on in the Senate

         7       chamber.  We only ask that you act in a

         8       dignified manner, that you make no public

         9       demonstration of any kind and no applause.  If

        10       that continues again, I'll have to ask the

        11       Senate Sergeant-at-Arms to clear the chamber.

        12                      Now, please respect the rules of

        13       our Senate, and Senator Markowitz will continue

        14       his comments.

        15                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you.

        16       Thank you, Senator.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        18       Additional time added on.

        19                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you.

        20                      Under this proposal, Senator

        21       Hannon, you ask for tenants.  In fact, tenants

        22       would have to open up their incomes.  That's

        23       what you're calling for.  It seems to me that











                                                             
6483

         1       opening the books up from the owner should come

         2       first.

         3                      And secondly we talk about the

         4       few tenants.  One percent, one half of one

         5       percent, one quarter of one percent of tenants

         6       that may be in what you consider them to be

         7       super luxury, although I imagine, Senator Daly,

         8       to dry clean a suit in your home town probably

         9       is about four bucks. Let me tell you, in

        10       Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn, it's eight

        11       bucks to dry clean a suit, and I'm mentioning it

        12       because there are different standards of living

        13       in terms of costs, living in some of your

        14       communities and living in some of ours.

        15                      I say what we should be focusing

        16       on, Mr. President, what we should be focusing

        17       on, what about the tens of thousands of tenants

        18       in New York City who are paying too much rent

        19       for their income? What about those tenants that

        20       are spending 40, 50 percent of their income on

        21       rent because they can't find apartments?

        22                      You think it's like going down a

        23       supermarket aisle of Price Chopper, and, if you











                                                             
6484

         1       see a can of beans on sale for a buck and

         2       something on sale for ninety cents, that you buy

         3       the 90 cents? There is no open housing in New

         4       York City, period.  And decontrolling is not

         5       going to be the answer, Senator Hannon.

         6                      We ought to focus in on the real

         7       need: Number one, the small landlord, they need

         8       our help.  What happened to you? You said

         9       earlier you wanted to help the small landlord.

        10       This certainly won't.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        12       Markowitz, your two minutes have expired.

        13                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I vote yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Thank

        15       you.  Continue the roll call.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        17       Masiello.

        18                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mega.

        20                      (There was no audible response. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        22                      (There was no audible response. )

        23                      Senator Montgomery.











                                                             
6485

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      Senator Nolan.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      Senator Nozzolio.

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  No.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         7       Ohrenstein.

         8                      (Affirmative indication. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.

        10                      Senator Onorato.

        11                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Oppenheimer.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.

        18                      SENATOR PATAKI:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  No.











                                                             
6486

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  No.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       Santiago.

         5                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears.

         7                      SENATOR SEARS:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

         9                      SENATOR SEWARD:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sheffer.

        11                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

        15                      SENATOR SMITH:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

        17                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President,

        18       to explain my vote.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        20       Solomon to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President,

        22       I'm glad, Senator Bruno, you talk about

        23       principle and not subsidizing people, because











                                                             
6487

         1       using that hundred thousand dollar level should

         2       be used in numerous ways.  For instance, when we

         3       look at a SUNY tuition increase why should those

         4       that earn over $100,000 a year be subsidized by

         5       those that earn $25,000 a year? I think we

         6       should have two levels of tuition, one for those

         7       that earn over $100,000 a year, maybe they

         8       should pay the out-of-state tuition, they

         9       shouldn't be subsidized by the taxpayers in this

        10       state.

        11                      That sounds the same thing.  It's

        12       very fair.  We're talking about subsidies.  I'd

        13       like to see how many people on your side of the

        14       aisle would like to put in a bill such as that.

        15       It's very principled.  In fact, that's listed as

        16       one of the quote, "middle class subsidies" in a

        17       recent Empire State Report where they talk about

        18       where they classify rent stabilization as a

        19       subsidy.

        20                      There are some others, the people

        21       we allow to keep $70,000 if they have to go into

        22       a nursing home, families allowed to maintain

        23       $70,000, yet they get Medicaid which pays for











                                                             
6488

         1       the full cost of that nursing home.  That's

         2       another subsidy.

         3                      But let's talk about fair.  I

         4       think the SUNY tuition smacks right on target;

         5       in fact, it's very fair and it should be applied

         6       equally across the state.  We just don't have to

         7       deal with a couple of localities.  So let's

         8       remember what you said when that next SUNY

         9       tuition comes up, Senator, and I'm sure you'll

        10       be proud to introduce that type of bill because

        11       that will be fair, and we don't want to

        12       subsidize those people who could send their kids

        13       to private college.  Why should we subsidize

        14       them?

        15                      I vote yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        17       Solomon in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

        18       call.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Stachowski.

        23                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Yes.











                                                             
6489

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         2       Stafford.

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Stavisky.

         6                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yes.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

         8                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  No.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        10                      SENATOR TULLY:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  No.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        14                      SENATOR VOLKER:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        16                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        17       to explain my vote.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        19       Waldon to explain his vote.

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        21       it's my understanding that there are about 2

        22       million students from Nassau-Suffolk County.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse











                                                             
6490

         1       me, Senator Waldon. I can't hear Senator Waldon

         2       from here, and I'm closer than a lot of you.  I

         3       would ask the Sergeant-of-Arms, please, for that

         4       row that's in the back, find seats or please

         5       leave the chamber.  There will be no further

         6       conversations, and please give your attention to

         7       Senator Waldon, who is explaining his vote.

         8                      Senator?

         9                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        10       much, Mr. President.

        11                      It is my understanding that about

        12       2 million students from Nassau-Suffolk County

        13       attend the SUNY institutions.  Perhaps many of

        14       their parents make $100,000 or more.  It is also

        15       my understanding that there are about 2 million

        16       tenants who are at risk as a result of what

        17       we're doing here tonight, many of whom who make

        18       much less than $100,000.

        19                      So I propose that we flip-flop

        20       those who have for those who have not and create

        21       some equity in what we're doing here this

        22       evening. Think about it.

        23                      I vote yes.











                                                             
6491

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         2       Waldon in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

         3       call.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  No.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         7       Absentees.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Connor.

         9                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        11       Connor to explain his vote.

        12                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      You know, I want to follow up

        15       just briefly on something Senator Markowitz

        16       ended on.  I've met with, each year, the small

        17       landlords from my district from Greenpoint, from

        18       the Lower East Side, from Sunset Park.  They

        19       come up, they say, "Senator, I'm not rich," many

        20       of them are immigrants from Poland or Latinos,

        21       they say, "I've saved everything to buy this

        22       building.  It has six or seven apartments.  I

        23       sweep the sidewalk myself.  I put the garbage











                                                             
6492

         1       out.  I can't afford a super.  When I bought the

         2       building, I mean I have people who have been

         3       there for many, many years.  My tenants are

         4       poor."  They'll say that.  "My tenants are poor

         5       but I can't make it either; my entire investment

         6       is this building."  Where are they in this bill?

         7       They don't make campaign contributions.  They

         8       can't even afford a super to take out the

         9       garbage.

        10                      Principle! It's all principle, I

        11       hear from the other side.  It's not.  It's all

        12       money, money, money.  The big landlords benefit

        13       from this.  The people we ought to figure out

        14       how to help, small owners, with poor tenants, we

        15       ought to help those owners, not at the expense

        16       of the tenants.  We ought to be fashioning

        17       things to deal with that.

        18                      Why aren't we doing that? These

        19       are red-blooded Americans who own property.

        20       Republican Party is supposed to take care of

        21       them.  Where are they in this bill?

        22                      I vote aye.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator











                                                             
6493

         1       Connor in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

         2       call.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         4                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       Cook to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

         8       think it's important that we understand what's

         9       happening.  This is not a vote on the bill.

        10       It's not a vote on rent control, vacancy

        11       decontrol, luxury apartments.  This is a vote on

        12       a motion.

        13                      A motion was made, as I

        14       understand it, on the premise that a bill that

        15       was reported from committee had been amended

        16       and, therefore, was not properly before the

        17       house and ought to go back to the committee and

        18       be discussed.  I would simply suggest that

        19       should this pass, that I then intend to make a

        20       motion that any bill that any member has on the

        21       floor who voted for this -- this motion that's

        22       been amended, that I'm going to move that all

        23       those bills that have been amended since











                                                             
6494

         1       reporting from committee be recommitted on the

         2       same basis, that they ought to be reconsidered

         3       because it seems to me that that's really what

         4       the motion is all about, and I think that we are

         5       voting on a premise here of what we have always

         6       understood, and that is that any member can

         7       amend any bill that they have on the floor of

         8       the house, and I'm, therefore, voting against

         9       the motion because I believe that we ought to

        10       uphold the rules as we -- the practice that we

        11       follow.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        13       Cook in the negative.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, a

        15       point of information, please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Yes,

        17       Senator Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  I really feel kind

        19       of silly.  I just got a phone call from my wife

        20       in New York, who says the radio is already

        21       announcing we've agreed to a one-day extension

        22       in both houses.  Why are we doing this?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Are you











                                                             
6495

         1       withdrawing your motion, Senator?

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.  I want to

         3       know why are we debating this bill when the

         4       press has left, everybody is reporting all over

         5       the place that we have agreement on a one-day

         6       extender.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

         8       me.  Senator, to the extent that you've asked a

         9       point of information, the answer is you've made

        10       a motion.  Continue the roll call.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Point of order,

        12       Mr. President.  If I withdraw the motion, do we

        13       withdraw the bill and we all go home?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  If you

        15       withdraw the motion, the bill is on the floor

        16       and we'll consider the bill.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, point of

        18       information: Why are we considering a bill when

        19       it's already been announced all over the press

        20       and radio that there's been bipartisan, triple

        21       Governor agreement for a one-day extension and

        22       we're not going to do this.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Thank











                                                             
6496

         1       you.  Senator Gold, we're in the middle of a

         2       roll call.  Thank you.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Does that mean yes

         4       or no?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Thank

         6       you, Senator Gold.  Continue the roll call.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  You're welcome,

         8       Mr. President.  I hope I've been helpful.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Continue

        10       the roll call.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

        12                      SENATOR DALY:  No.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Hoffmann.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Montgomery.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Senator Nolan.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      Senator Paterson.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.











                                                             
6497

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Results.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 24, nays

         3       33.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The

         5       motion did not pass.

         6                      On the bill.  Senator Hannon.

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  On the bill, Mr.

         8       Speaker -- Mr. President.  Ingrained habit.

         9                      I would like to have an extensive

        10       amount of time, but I'm not going to do that, to

        11       talk about all the merits, to talk about the

        12       issue, to talk about how there's been a fear

        13       campaign, so that the real middle class, the

        14       people with the small apartments, shouldn't be

        15       afraid, but no, what I really want to address is

        16       the question on everybody's mind which is why

        17       are we here at 11 o'clock, 50 minutes to go, on

        18       the third -- second extension to expire, and

        19       that's because we've had to adopt this procedure

        20       taking this bill to this floor to get people to

        21       talk.

        22                      The bill was due to expire on

        23       June 15th.  We knew that.  This body debated











                                                             
6498

         1       luxury decontrol on this very floor and it

         2       passed in 1992, and we knew the old laws were

         3       going to expire on June 15th.  We had hearings

         4       in the city of New York, two whole days.  We

         5       issued a report.

         6                      This year has seen many reports,

         7       many books come out, Scarcity by Design, things

         8       about the housing shortage in New York City;

         9       Community Service Society, Housing on the Block;

        10       140,000 units in jeopardy of going for

        11       foreclosure.

        12                      We didn't have anything to do

        13       with this.  The public knows; the public

        14       expected us to do the right thing, but this

        15       Legislature couldn't get those talks going.

        16       Senator Bruno had the bill.  Senator Marino

        17       said, "Let's get talking."  We couldn't do it.

        18       Finally got an inkling and a glimmer two weeks

        19       ago, and had an eight-day extension.  When that

        20       was just to be up, Speaker Weprin said, "I want

        21       to talk."  Well, I don't know how much he really

        22       talked until just yesterday, and all day things

        23       have been -- talks have been going on, but











                                                             
6499

         1       absolutely no movement.

         2                      We called the Rules Committee for

         3       the chapter which raises the income threshold.

         4       We start this and, lo and behold, things start

         5       moving.  It is a terrible way to do business.

         6       It is a terrible thing to terrify people who

         7       have apartments in the City and elsewhere who

         8       will be subject to this, but I'll tell you it's

         9       50 years of just a rotten system, and Mr.

        10       Markowitz talked about what I've done since I

        11       got to be the head of this committee.

        12                      Well, you know what, I had -- I

        13       took the job seriously.  I've spent the time in

        14       each of the boroughs.  I've spent the time in

        15       this state.  I've looked at what we have as

        16       affordable housing and lack of it.  I've looked

        17       at the public housing, and mostly it's in your

        18       district, and we've acted responsibly.  When the

        19       city of New York has asked us to do things,

        20       we've done it.  When the state of New York has

        21       asked us to do things, we've done it.  There's

        22       no credit given over here, but it's the right

        23       thing to do, and when we deal with this issue,











                                                             
6500

         1       this whole thing is the right thing to do.

         2                      We've tried to be reasonable.

         3       We've tried to strike a moderate approach and,

         4       unlike all the things you say, this bill is a

         5       comprehensive bill.  There's things in there for

         6       hardship cases from the left wing to the right

         7       wing spectrum of ideology; everybody says there

         8       are buildings in New York City that are in

         9       danger of being lost and, if they're lost,

        10       they'll be taken over by the City HPD, Housing

        11       Preservation Department, somewhat of a misnomer,

        12       and if that happens they go out of the rent

        13       system entirely.

        14                      What -- what are we to do? We're

        15       trying to address problems, and when we're

        16       addressing the luxury, it is the biggest symbol

        17       in the world because it is a big problem.  Have

        18       we addressed it in other areas? Two Senators

        19       mentioned tuition in college.  What do you think

        20       the TAP system is structured on?  Income.  The

        21       more you make, the less you get.  What do you

        22       think about financial aid in each of the

        23       universities? Income.  The more you get, the











                                                             
6501

         1       less you get in tuition and financial aid -- in

         2       financial aid.

         3                      This is simply trying to address

         4       it rationally.  I'm sure that I've sparked off

         5       more questions in debate than I meant to.  I'm

         6       sure I've taken up more time than I meant to

         7       because there are a lot of people who indicated

         8       they wanted to talk on this.  But I will tell

         9       you, many people have not addressed the issues

        10       nor have they read the bill.

        11                      We haven't gone through anybody's

        12       tax returns; in fact nobody does.  We make sure

        13       all of the privacy provisions of the current

        14       statute are continued.  We make sure all of the

        15       statutes that make sure landlords behave

        16       properly are continued, the anti-harassment

        17       statutes. We've -- the Governor, last Thursday,

        18       lo and behold, 11 years into his incumbency,

        19       asked us 45 questions about rent control.  We

        20       gave the answers.  They're available to

        21       anybody.  They pierce many of the veils that

        22       people think are sacred cows about this whole

        23       system.











                                                             
6502

         1                      With that, I think this bill is a

         2       worthy bill.  With that, I think negotiations

         3       are continued apace, and I think this is a

         4       worthy debate, and I'm going to urge people to,

         5       if we bring this to a vote, to vote for it.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

         7       yield to a question?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Stavisky is next on the floor unless he'd like

        10       to yield to you for a moment.

        11                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I yield.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        13       Gold.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, just one

        15       question I'm curious about, Senator Hannon.  You

        16       said you held hearings and you were concerned

        17       there were 140,000 units on the block, et

        18       cetera, et cetera.  We lose these, lose housing

        19       to HPD.  Out of the 140,000, how many of them

        20       are buildings that involve luxury apartments

        21       versus the small landlords with the poorer

        22       tenants?

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  I'm glad you











                                                             
6503

         1       asked that, because the answer is none, but if

         2       you look at the bill where we have provisions

         3       for hardship relief to try to implement

         4       something that is genuine instead of the two

         5       phony procedures that are currently in the

         6       regulations of DHCR, we've tried to address

         7       that.  It's right here.  It's been on the

         8       floor.  You know, you've been looking at the

         9       bills on the floor.  I'm sure you've read it.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  So if I may, just

        11       to clarify, Senator Stavisky.  Senator Hannon,

        12       so in other words you held hearings, you

        13       determined 140,000 apartments are going to be

        14       lost on the block, they'd be in HPD and your

        15       answer is that, although none of them, none of

        16       them are involved if we get luxury decontrol, we

        17       are somehow making major efforts to take the

        18       burdens of the poor and give it to the rich.

        19                      Senator, there's a huge gap in

        20       this aisle, but I think the logic in your

        21       argument is bigger than the Grand Canyon.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  In response,

        23       Senator Gold, a two-fold response.  The first











                                                             
6504

         1       is, we have crafted a bill that is a

         2       comprehensive approach to all of the problems.

         3       The second, to answer you most directly, is that

         4       luxury decontrol is an attempt also to get a lot

         5       of what is now foregone assessment back onto the

         6       tax rolls and, therefore, that will generate a

         7       considerably greater amount of taxes, so that

         8       the subsidy that all the taxpayers make to the

         9       people who are enjoying these apartments and who

        10       make an amount of money that they could

        11       otherwise enjoy, will end in a subsidy and that

        12       money can be used by the city of New York as it

        13       well needs it, for a whole range of housing

        14       programs that it has.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        16       Stavisky.

        17                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        21       Onorato, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR ONORATO:  I was going to

        23       ask if the Senator would yield to a question.











                                                             
6505

         1                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I was about to

         2       do that, Senator.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Well,

         4       Senator Onorato,  Senator Stavisky's name was

         5       next.  I'll put you down afterwards.

         6                      Senator Stavisky.

         7                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Senator

         8       Hannon, would you yield for a question, please?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        10       Hannon, will you yield? Yes, he will.

        11                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Senator

        12       Hannon, let us for purposes of discussion,

        13       although I'm not waiving or yielding on this

        14       point at all, your objective is to eliminate a

        15       free lunch for the wealthiest people and that's

        16       why you want luxury decontrol.  Is that the

        17       assumption of your approach to luxury decontrol?

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  On wealth alone?

        19                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  You want to

        20       end the rent control and rent stabilization for

        21       the wealthiest families, is that correct?

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, it's one

        23       way.











                                                             
6506

         1                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  O.K.

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  There's lots of

         3       other things attached to it, but -

         4                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  O.K., Senator,

         5       let me ask you hypothetically, if an apartment

         6       is now vacated by a wealthy family that had

         7       enjoyed the benefits of either rent control or

         8       rent stabilization, now that apartment is vacant

         9       and there are hundreds of thousands of people of

        10       more moderate means who need affordable

        11       housing.  Is there anything in your bill,

        12       Senator Hannon, that would put those apartments,

        13       after the wealthy tenants are out, back under

        14       some form of rational rent stabilization so that

        15       a moderate -- moderate income family could now

        16       live in that apartment; or are you simply

        17       creating a domino effect that, for all time,

        18       these apartments will no longer be available to

        19       moderate income families?

        20                      SENATOR HANNON:  You presuppose

        21       that somehow the rent's going to go soaring up

        22       and the apartment still remains available for

        23       rent, and the question -- the question is -











                                                             
6507

         1                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  At what rent

         2       level, Senator Hannon -- this is my question.

         3       Have you created any effort to limit the size of

         4       the rent increase on that apartment?

         5                      SENATOR HANNON:  No.  But let me

         6       just tell you something: The city of New York,

         7       when they came up here, came armed with the same

         8       1991 housing vacancy survey that the census

         9       department had done for them, that we have

        10       available, and it points out that at rent levels

        11       above the threshold that's in law for apartments

        12       renting from about 650 and more, the rent level

        13       is at 6 percent and soars, soars, to a 12

        14       percent vacancy level at the rent level of

        15       1500.  So what you're saying, what -- according

        16       to the original premise of these statutes, all

        17       the apartments in that arena should not be any

        18       longer controlled, because the original premise

        19       says you have to have five percent or less in

        20       order for there to be an emergency, and there's

        21       not that five percent.

        22                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Senator

        23       Hannon, you've answered my question.  You are











                                                             
6508

         1       not at all concerned about affordable -

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  I didn't talk

         3       about concerns; I talked about facts that are in

         4       the bill.

         5                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  You appear not

         6       to be concerned about affordable housing for

         7       hundreds of thousands of people who need

         8       apartments, who could occupy those now

         9       decontrolled apartments where the luxury family,

        10       the wealthiest families, are no longer going to

        11       stay.  If you said to this chamber, yes, I want

        12       the wealthy people who have had an unfair

        13       benefit to leave those apartments so that we

        14       create affordable housing, that's one argument.

        15       But that's not the argument.

        16                      Yours is a landlord subsidy

        17       bill.  Yours is a wealthy landlord subsidy bill,

        18       and you don't seem to give a damn about families

        19       of more modest means who do need affordable

        20       housing, who have been on waiting lists for

        21       years, and their names may never have been

        22       reached because there just aren't affordable

        23       apartments in the city of New York, and that's











                                                             
6509

         1       the fallacy of your approach to a so-called

         2       luxury decontrol.  It's not luxury decontrol for

         3       the benefit of most New Yorkers; it's luxury

         4       decontrol for the benefit of the wealthiest

         5       landlords.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  I'm not only

         7       amazed at your profanity, but I'm amazed at your

         8       lack of logic.

         9                      First of all, you talked about

        10       hundreds of thousands.  The survey points out

        11       that, at the level of income we've chosen in the

        12       main bill, and it's even less in the chapter

        13       amendment, that there's about 20,000 units that

        14       are being occupied.  20,000 is a drop in the

        15       bucket in terms of the affordable housing needs

        16       of the city of New York.

        17                      I have also, as I've told you in

        18       my remarks, hit upon the 140,000 units that are

        19       completely at risk unless we reform the whole

        20       hardship system, and it's not the 140,000 units

        21       that are at risk, it's the tenants, because if

        22       the system is taken over, any of those units are

        23       taken over by the City in an in rem, they go out











                                                             
6510

         1       of the rent control system entirely, the City is

         2       not bound, the City raises the rents and charges

         3       and those tenants are put at risk. So your facts

         4       and your logic simply aren't present.  We've had

         5       concerns, they go across the board, and what

         6       we've tried to do is address them in each

         7       instance.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Onorato.

        10                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Senator Hannon,

        11       you raise some interesting points here.  Are you

        12       aware of any or can you tell me any luxury

        13       apartment building that was built after 1974

        14       that has defaulted on its taxes and are you

        15       aware that houses built after 1974 received

        16       partly through this legislative body and the

        17       City Council J.51, where they received tax

        18       abatements to build these luxury apartments

        19       making -- getting over $2,000 a month rent;

        20       they're tax subsidized and they then become

        21       stabilized.  They're getting rent increases.  So

        22       who are we assisting? You're still assisting

        23       luxury landslords who need no assistance. How is











                                                             
6511

         1       this going to help the other tenants who do need

         2       their assistance? We have a group of them up

         3       here today literally fighting for their lives.

         4       We have lobbyists coming up day in and day out

         5       asking us to give them money.

         6                      Today we have a group of people

         7       coming up here asking us to help save them from

         8       their homes.  They're not asking us for money.

         9       They're asking us to give them a break and to do

        10       the right thing.  The luxury apartment owners

        11       don't need the break that these people do

        12       today.  So tell me, how many luxury apartments

        13       have folded since 1974?

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  Two points in

        15       your question, I believe, and if I've skipped

        16       any other points over, remind me, but in terms

        17       of people have gotten tax breaks, the chapter

        18       amendment that we made to the original bill

        19       eliminates the ability of decontrol if the

        20       building is getting a tax break under 421 or J.

        21       51.

        22                      And second, when you talk about

        23       who's getting the foreclosures, it's a little











                                                             
6512

         1       more difficult because the city HPD doesn't put

         2       out an annual report, but in the report that we

         3       all received from the Finance Department of New

         4       York City for fiscal year 1993, I quote, on page

         5       Roman Numeral small ii, "The growth in

         6       delinquency has resulted in an increase in the

         7       number of properties included in foreclosure

         8       actions. In rem actions filed in each borough

         9       during calendar '92 totaled 17,900 properties, a

        10       24 percent increase over the previous year."

        11                      And in your borough, the number

        12       of actions in Brooklyn more than doubled and

        13       represented nearly half of the citywide

        14       actions.

        15                      I don't have the specific

        16       instances for the buildings, but every time

        17       there's a foreclosure, there's tenants that are

        18       put at risk, and they are the ones who are

        19       ill-served by this system who subsidize the

        20       wrong people.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        22       Leichter.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,











                                                             
6513

         1       I want to ask Senator Hannon a question.

         2                      Let me first point out to you,

         3       Senator Hannon, the 140,000 buildings that

         4       you're talking about in most of those, the

         5       landlords are charging less than the regulated

         6       rent.  And you know why? Because the landlord

         7       cannot get the regulated rent, because regulated

         8       rent is so high and because you can't get people

         9       to live there.  You really fail to understand

        10       the issue.  I just wanted to point that out,

        11       because there's no -- because the explanation

        12       that you're giving for your bill has really

        13       absolutely nothing to do with your bill, which

        14       is basically a political statement against rent

        15       control, period, and a statement in favor as my

        16       colleagues have correctly pointed out, wealthy

        17       landlords.

        18                      But I want to ask you just as an

        19       example of how I believe unworkable your bill

        20       is, take your provision on the total annual.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

        22       me, Senator Leichter.

        23                      Senator DeFrancisco, why do you











                                                             
6514

         1       rise?

         2                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Will you

         3       yield for a question?

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       DeFrancisco.

         7                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  If all of

         8       these luxury apartment landlords cannot get even

         9       the subsidized rent, what harm would it be to

        10       eliminate the control?

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, we're

        12       not talking about the luxury apartments.  He's

        13       talking about -- he's talking about apartments,

        14       the buildings that are going in rem, buildings

        15       that are not -- do not have luxury rent. They

        16       wouldn't be affected by this particular bill and

        17       there just to point out that rent control is not

        18       the cause of these buildings going in rem

        19       because it is shown time and time again, has

        20       been documented, it's probably right in that

        21       report you have from the Community Service

        22       Society, that the landlords in those buildings

        23       that we're talking about, not luxury buildings,











                                                             
6515

         1       Senator DeFrancisco, but buildings that are in

         2       usually deteriorated sections of the city, the

         3       landlords are incapable of getting regulated

         4       rents. The rent control has nothing to do with

         5       these buildings going in rem.

         6                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  And you

         7       weren't -- would you yield to another question?

         8       So you didn't just say that those luxury

         9       apartments the landlords cannot get even the

        10       regulated rent?

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        12       don't mean to be disrespectful, but obviously

        13       you weren't listening to what I was saying.

        14                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Oh, then I

        15       apologize.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Right.

        17                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I must have

        18       got tired of listening.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, I'm sure

        20       you did.

        21                      Senator Hannon, would you be so

        22       good as to yield?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator











                                                             
6516

         1       Hannon, Senator Leichter is requesting you to

         2       yield.

         3                      Senator Leichter.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just taking

         5       your provision as to the income of $100,000

         6       which triggers decontrol, is that correct; is

         7       that the total annual income?

         8                      SENATOR HANNON:  Under the main

         9       bill, yes, and then in order to show our good

        10       faith and our flexibility under the chapter

        11       amendment which was reported out of Rules,

        12       although there is not a message on it, it's

        13       $200,000, but still has the same federal

        14       adjusted gross income.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, Senator,

        16       all I know is that we have this particular bill

        17       in front of us.  I haven't seen the chapter

        18       amendment, but under this bill that we're now

        19       debating, if you take a family with husband,

        20       wife.  Husband, let's say, is in Wall Street, he

        21       earns $40,000, the wife earns $30,000; a child

        22       comes out of college, lives with the family for

        23       part of that year, he earns $20,000.  Husband











                                                             
6517

         1       works in Wall Street, that year it's a good

         2       year, he gets a $20,000 bonus at the end of the

         3       year, their annual income for that particular

         4       year now is $110,000.

         5                      The next year they go back to

         6       what has been the pattern of income, the husband

         7       40-, the wife 30-, the son moves out, there's no

         8       bonus because Wall Street is not doing well.

         9       Under your bill, am I correct that that family

        10       loses the control rent or the control that

        11       exists on their apartment?

        12                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, first of

        13       all, the figures that we have show that the

        14       overwhelming number of these households, 66

        15       percent of them, in fact, are two-family, two

        16       person households; 86 percent are three-person

        17       households and 96 percent are no -- are four or

        18       less.  No wonder you're not hearing.

        19                      Excuse me.  Somebody ask me a

        20       question besides Senator Leichter?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  We have a

        22       little order in the chamber.  Extraneous remarks

        23       are not necessarily appreciated.  Senator Hannon











                                                             
6518

         1       is replying to Senator Leichter's question.

         2                      Senator Hannon.

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  Going to the

         4       thrust of what you say is the problem, I would

         5       say that family might have to do the same as the

         6       other 17,850,000 people in this state have to do

         7       who don't have rent control.  That's what I

         8       would have to say.  They would have to go

         9       according to the market.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, thank

        11       you.

        12                      I have -- I think you made -- I

        13       think you make my point.  My point really is how

        14       unworkable this bill is because if you, under

        15       this bill, consider that $100,000 is a

        16       threshold, you can set it up in such a way that

        17       a jump in income one particular year drives

        18       those people out of their rent-controlled

        19       apartment, and your answer is, Oh, tough, let

        20       them do what the other 17 million people in the

        21       state do.

        22                      Let me just point out, Senator,

        23       the other 17 million people in the state don't











                                                             
6519

         1       have the situation that we have in the city of

         2       New York and some other communities.  Let me

         3       also point out to you, Senator, because there's

         4       a certain, I think, an arrogance, an arrogance

         5       of, you know, we who pay our way and these

         6       people are being subsidized, Senator.  How about

         7       all your constituents who live in one-family

         8       homes and maybe yourself that get a nice fat

         9       interest deduction, Senator? How about that

        10       subsidy? If you want to take a look at subsidy,

        11       you want to take a look at fairness, people who

        12       make millions of dollars a year, whose house may

        13       be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars who

        14       get an interest deduction.  Where is that

        15       written in the U. S. Constitution or as part of

        16       the Ten Commandments that that subsidy is

        17       something that everyone is entitled to, but that

        18       to protect people in a market where there is a

        19       shortage of housing, to protect them from rent

        20       gouging, that somehow is a subsidy and something

        21       that should not be done?

        22                      Senator, if you want to look at

        23       fairness, you want to wipe out subsidies, then I











                                                             
6520

         1       submit to you that, for your wealthy suburbans,

         2       that we would find the many more subsidies than

         3       there ever are for the people who live in urban

         4       areas where there is a shortage of housing.

         5                      The fact is, Senator, that every

         6       one until this particular Republican Majority in

         7       June of 1993 ever since the World War II has

         8       agreed that we need rent control and regulation

         9       and protection for rent gouging in communities

        10       of New York State, and even as recently as two

        11       weeks ago, the mayor of the city of New York and

        12       the Republican candidate for mayor came up here

        13       and said, For God's sakes, don't do this in this

        14       fashion; you're going to cause havoc.  And here

        15       we are 25 minutes to go and you're driving that

        16       system into oblivion, and you're putting two

        17       million tenants, residents of urban housing and

        18       housing multiple dwellings throughout

        19       communities in New York, at great risk.

        20                      What you're going to cause,

        21       Senator, is chaos, utter chaos, because you've

        22       put out a bill that is not well thought out,

        23       that is not well written, that is not a fair











                                                             
6521

         1       bill, and you insisted on it, and where a -

         2       with a stubbornness this Majority has insisted

         3       you're going to discuss our bill.

         4                      You said, Well, the Speaker

         5       wasn't willing.  You knew we had this bill or

         6       something like that.  The fact is that it was

         7       the Republicans in this house that refused to

         8       sit down and discuss.  You didn't have public

         9       hearings throughout New York State on this

        10       bill.  You didn't give people an opportunity to

        11       be heard.  You didn't take it through your

        12       committee.  You surreptitiously, slyly took a

        13       totally different bill and then amended it in

        14       this fashion, and then a few days before rent

        15       control was to expire you said, Hey, this is it,

        16       you either go along with this or rent control is

        17       going to expire, and it was only at the very

        18       last minute with the Governor having to rush

        19       into this chamber to sign a bill that we avoided

        20       that catastrophe.  And ever since then, you've

        21       taken an obstinate, stubborn position; you've

        22       refused to do this in a fashion that would make

        23       sense, in a fashion that would allow the system











                                                             
6522

         1       to be continued for people who need it and to

         2       have a system fashioned that would work.

         3                      Instead, you've insisted in

         4       pushing ahead this bill that has absurdities, as

         5       I just pointed out, absurdities, as Senator

         6       Onorato pointed out, where you have landlords

         7       who would receive millions in subsidies on their

         8       written promise, their commitment that they

         9       would control their rents, even though they

        10       rented initially at market rents and, in fact,

        11       one of the many prints that you had provided

        12       that the 421-a apartments would continue subject

        13       to the controls that the landlords had agreed

        14       to.

        15                      SENATOR HANNON:  Just as it's

        16       done now.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  In this

        18       particular bill?

        19                      SENATOR HANNON:  I'll find it for

        20       you, I'll guarantee it.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        22       Gentlemen, would you address your questions to

        23       the Chair.











                                                             
6523

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Let me address

         2       all of your questions at once.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Could you

         4       because my understanding is that that's -

         5                      SENATOR HANNON:  I'll have that

         6       for you before the end, but we did amend, as I

         7       said to Senator Onorato, so that those people

         8       who get the 421 tax breaks on their buildings

         9       are not subject to the decontrol provisions that

        10       otherwise provided in here.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  So that,

        12       Senator, I -

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  But let me -

        14       let me address the points that you have raised.

        15                      First of all, I am surprised that

        16       a man of your principle and established

        17       positions, that when you talk about the income

        18       of the suburbs and all that, you haven't

        19       realized that the group of people we seek to

        20       remove from this system are spending a very

        21       small percentage of their income on housing.

        22       They're spending five and ten percent.  The

        23       average of our constituents throughout the











                                                             
6524

         1       state, and the rest of the tenants in New York

         2       City, are spending about 25 percent of their

         3       income, not because they want to, not because

         4       they enjoy it, but that's the cost to them and,

         5       in fact, what do we do with the Section 8

         6       system?  We require those individuals, poor

         7       individuals, to spend 30 percent of their income

         8       before we give them a Section 8 voucher, and yet

         9       we're talking about five percent of your

        10       income.

        11                      The one thing I can't understand,

        12       Senator Leichter, is why you're defending this

        13       so ferociously, because all of this, but I can't

        14       understand why the rest of you from the city of

        15       New York are doing so, because all the surveys

        16       point out where the vast bulk of the apartments

        17       that we would cover.  Upper East Side, Upper

        18       West Side, one or two in Central Park South, but

        19       I'm telling you, it's -- this is a thing for the

        20       borough of Manhattan.  That's why Senator

        21       Goodman has been fighting so ferociously on this

        22       one.

        23                      And then finally, why don't I











                                                             
6525

         1       have hearings around the state? You know, I

         2       don't know if any of your upstate members are

         3       going to vote against this bill, but I know that

         4       the surveys show that 99 percent of the people

         5       upstate can't figure out why this system has

         6       continued.  So that's the answer, and I think by

         7       now your counsel has pointed out where the tax

         8        -- tax provisions, and I believe it's 14 (a),

         9       on page 9.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

        11       that's exactly what my counsel pointed out and

        12       he reads it, and I read it, as not covering the

        13       421-a buildings because it seems to say on line

        14       45 that such units may be decontrolled pursuant

        15       to the Luxury Decontrol Act of 1993, a misnomer

        16       if there ever was one, so it seems to me clear

        17       that you provide for the decontrol of these

        18       units, but Senator, I find it interesting that

        19       on such an important issue, you, the sponsor of

        20       this bill seem to be somewhat uncertain.  I

        21       think that makes the point.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  A bit

        23       uncertain.  If there's anything I'm uncertain











                                                             
6526

         1       about, I haven't figured it out yet.  If there

         2       is any trouble, you said to me -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         4       Hannon and Senator Leichter, please address your

         5       remarks to the Chair.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

         7       concede that there are many things that you have

         8       not yet figured out, and I think what you

         9       haven't figured out, Senator, what the need for

        10       control is.

        11                      You refer to the fact, well, this

        12       is a Manhattan issue. Even if it were only a

        13       Manhattan issue, Senator, we are part of the

        14       state and our residents are also entitled to the

        15       protection of the laws.  But it's more than

        16       Manhattan, Senator, and it's more than just New

        17       York, but it happens to be extremely important

        18       to 2 million people, Senator, and we can devise

        19       a fair system.

        20                      What we're saying is, the way

        21       you're proceeding and with that stubborn

        22       insistence of derailing rent control which

        23       really seems to be your intent, and focusing on











                                                             
6527

         1       helping wealthy landlords, that is not the way

         2       that we're going to deal with housing problems

         3       in this state and, Senator, we now have 18

         4       minutes, and if the Majority continues and

         5       insists on this path, in 18 minutes, we will

         6       have lost all control from the state of New

         7       York.

         8                      It would be a crime and a crime

         9       that you and this Majority in this house will of

        10       to take the responsibility for.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        12       Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        14       may I call an immediate meeting of the Rules

        15       Committee in Room 332.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  There

        17       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        18       Committee in 332.  I would suggest that the

        19       members of the Rules Committee make it

        20       immediate.

        21                      Senator Gold.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  I wonder what's

        23       afoot?











                                                             
6528

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         2       Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, I have a couple questions for Senator

         5       Hannon and -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         7       Hannon will take them.

         8                      Senator Dollinger, please excuse

         9       the exodus; it's not because you're about to

        10       speak.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I just wonder

        12       whether further discussion is necessary.  We all

        13       ought to go to the Rules Committee and figure

        14       out what's happened.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  You can

        16       yield the floor if you'd like.  We're still in

        17       session.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator

        19       Hannon, let me -- I just have a couple questions

        20       for you.  As I understand it, and I'm not from a

        21       rent-controlled area, so let me make sure I

        22       understand it. You conducted a study that said

        23       there were 140,000 units in the city of New York











                                                             
6529

         1       that were in trouble; is that correct?

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  No, Mr. -

         3       Senator Dollinger.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I just wanted

         5       to know what that number stood for.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  The Community

         7       Services Society, a fairly prestigious

         8       not-for-profit group that has been in existence

         9       for many, many years, earlier this year issued a

        10       report called Housing on the Block, subtitled

        11       Disinvestment and Abandonment Risks in New York

        12       City Neighborhoods, and they pointed out that

        13       for a number of factors, 140,000 units -- that's

        14       not 140,000 buildings, by the way, Senator

        15       Leichter.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  140,000

        17       units.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Units are at

        19       risk of being taken off the tax rolls, being

        20       taken at what they call in rem, Latin for the

        21       thing, so there would be a legal proceeding only

        22       against the building as opposed to a legal

        23       proceeding against the owner, and it was their











                                                             
6530

         1       report -

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  -- that set it

         4       at 140,000, and that, to that problem, I had

         5       said the hardship provisions of the bill apply

         6       because we're trying to deal with both high

         7       income problems that we have here, we've already

         8       talked about, and these lower income buildings

         9       that we're talking about in the hardship

        10       provisions.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. And, Mr.

        12       President, through you, I thought that your

        13       response to Senator Gold was that none of those

        14       would be included in luxury decontrol.  So this

        15       bill doesn't really deal with that 140,000-unit

        16       problem, does it?

        17                      SENATOR HANNON:  The provisions

        18       of this bill which deal with it specifically are

        19       the hardship provisions that are contained in

        20       this bill.  Those are provisions that would

        21       allow the landlords of these buildings or the

        22       owners to say that they are not getting enough

        23       money to even cover the operating costs and the











                                                             
6531

         1       operating costs primarily in this case would be

         2       your utilities, oil and water, electricity,

         3       along with your taxes and then whatever

         4       maintenance has to go along with it; so they're

         5       not making that money, and they would be able to

         6       raise the rents in order to keep that -- in

         7       order to keep that building afloat.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What I do -

         9                      SENATOR HANNON:  That's the

        10       primer and that provision is addressed in the

        11       latter several sections of the bill.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. What I

        13       don't understand, Senator -

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  So if you

        15       continue to not understand, I'm telling you that

        16       there are specific clauses in this bill to deal

        17       with this problem.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So what I

        19       don't understand, Mr. President, and I apologize

        20       for not being clear due to my unfamiliarity with

        21       rent control, are you saying you have luxury

        22       decontrol for luxury units, but then you have a

        23       separate category that are not under luxury











                                                             
6532

         1       decontrol, and you would have a separate group

         2       that is hardship decontrol; is that correct?

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  That's correct.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So you would

         5       have a hardship decontrol.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  I said nothing

         7       about hardship decontrol whatsoever.  It's a

         8       hardship to keep these buildings on their feet,

         9       keep them intact, and let me tell you the down

        10       side of that. If these buildings are taken over,

        11       they're taken over by the city of New York,

        12       they're removed from the rent control system.

        13                      I'm trying to keep them in

        14       reality in that system.  The reason I don't want

        15       to take them out is that we had a large, large

        16       number removed at the end of the decade in the

        17        '70s.  It was proven that the City simply

        18       cannot handle it.  It's not good at being a

        19       direct landlord.

        20                      This is the City, by the way, and

        21       not the Public Housing Authority, and those

        22       units -

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K.











                                                             
6533

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  -- have been

         2       terrible for the tenants, terrible services for

         3       the tenants, and the biggest irony is, once the

         4       City takes over, the City raises the rents, so

         5       that's what the other provisions of the bill are

         6       designed to do and, no, it does not take those

         7       small buildings out of the system.  It tries to

         8       make the system work.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. Again

        10       through you, Mr. President, just so I understand

        11       it, then people who are tenants who don't make

        12       more than $100,000 under your bill may still

        13       find themselves subject to either loss of

        14       stabilization or loss of control if they're in a

        15       hardship case.

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  Your conclusion

        17       is not correct.  Your conclusion is not

        18       correct.  They don't find themselves subject to

        19       decontrol whatsoever.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  They'd simply

        21       find themselves subject to increases in the

        22       rent?

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  They might have











                                                             
6534

         1       an increase in their rent, but at least they

         2       would have better services because the proven

         3       alternative is that they would get those

         4       increases anyway if the City takes them over.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. You

         6       know, I'm not sure I fully understand that

         7       unless you give me time to digest it.  One of

         8       the things I will want to follow up on, Senator

         9       Hannon, if I could, is the point that Senator

        10       Markowitz made about opening the books up of the

        11       landlord.

        12                      One of the things we've talked

        13       about here is the wealth, that is wealth of

        14       tenants, wealth of landlords.  In the hearings

        15       that you held, did you examine the books of any

        16       of the landlords who are members of the real

        17       estate board PAC or the Rent Stabilization

        18       Association or the Neighborhood Preservation,

        19       their political funds; did you have occasion to

        20       look at any of those?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

        22       me, Senator Dollinger.  The stenographer is

        23       indicating that she can't take the transcript of











                                                             
6535

         1       these proceedings with the comments that are

         2       going on on the floor.

         3                      Now, Senator Dollinger, with

         4       apologies, I realize the Rules Committee members

         5       are returning to the floor, so members of the

         6       Rules Committee, come into the chamber, please

         7       bear in mind that we are in session, and Senator

         8       Dollinger does have the floor.

         9                      Senator Dollinger.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator,

        11       could you respond to that question?

        12                      SENATOR HANNON:  Your question

        13       is, did we look at any of those books? No, we

        14       didn't, but the city of New York has had the

        15       ability to do that for many years in regard to

        16       the provisions under the tax proceedings

        17       concerning income and expenses of all those

        18       landlords.  So those are a matter of record

        19       already.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  But, Mr.

        21       President, my understanding is that the

        22       committee, in formulating this bill, has not

        23       looked at this information, is that correct?











                                                             
6536

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So is it fair

         3       to say through you, Mr. President, that the

         4       committee is proposing this bill to decontrol on

         5       the basis of wealth of the tenant but doesn't

         6       know how wealthy the landlord is who actually is

         7       the guy receiving the money from the tenants,

         8       accumulating the money from the tenants, who

         9       pays the expenses and maintains the property, is

        10       that correct?

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  We didn't look

        12       at the records as you suggest nor did we look

        13       specifically at all of the books from the survey

        14       Senator Connor did, nor did we look at the

        15       underlying documents that came in from the City

        16       Finance Department nor did we look at the

        17       underlying documents that we've accepted from

        18       the HPD, nor did we look at the underlying

        19       documents that came in from the New York State

        20       Division of Housing and Community Renewal.

        21                      What we did is, we took in

        22       statistics from reports that we had.  I think

        23       what we did is, we had a fairly good indication











                                                             
6537

         1       of what are the facts.  We looked at all the

         2       information, voluminous studies that the rent

         3       guidelines board had provided us from the city

         4       of New York.

         5                      I would think that, if your

         6       answer to the question is, do we have

         7       information available, do we have statistics, do

         8       we have numbers, the answer is yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

        10       me, Senator Hannon.  Would the members,

        11       Senators, please take your seats.  The Senate is

        12       in session.

        13                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        15       Daly.

        16                      SENATOR DALY:  Senator Dollinger

        17       yield to a question?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Have you

        19       finished? I understand that.  Senator Present.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        21       may we interrupt this proceeding right now.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        23       President, I will yield the floor to Senator











                                                             
6538

         1       Present.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         3       Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we

         5       interrupt and receive a report from a standing

         6       committee.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  We'll lay

         8       this bill aside.  The Secretary will please read

         9       the report of the Committee on Rules.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

        11       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        12       following bill directly for third reading:

        13                      Senate Bill Number 6108, by the

        14       Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend

        15       Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1974, amending the

        16       Emergency Housing Rent Control Law, relating to

        17       the control of and stabilization of rent in

        18       certain cases.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Without

        20       objection, directly to third reading.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        22       can we have a vote on this bill at this time?

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is there an











                                                             
6539

         1       Assembly substitution?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  I'm

         3       sorry.  Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Do you have a

         5       message on this bill?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  We have a

         7       message.  Senator Present, we are receiving one

         8       momentarily.  We are also waiting for the

         9       Assembly bill so we may sub, which I believe is

        10       about to arrive.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Fine.

        12                      Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        14       Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let me announce

        16       that we're going to continue the debate on the

        17       bill that was on the floor and take the vote

        18       following the vote on this bill.

        19                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Oh, good.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Fine,

        21       Senator.

        22                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator











                                                             
6540

         1       Goodman.

         2                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  May I ask, is

         3       the bill which we are awaiting already at the

         4       desk?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  We're

         6       waiting for the Assembly bill so that we may sub

         7       it.

         8                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Is the Assembly

         9       bill on its way?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  It is not

        11       yet.

        12                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  It is not yet.

        13       Well, has an inquiry been made whether it's on

        14       its way?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  An

        16       inquiry has been made.  The message is here.

        17       We're waiting for the Assembly bill to sub.

        18                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senate

        21       will come to order.  Secretary will read a

        22       substitution.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino











                                                             
6541

         1       moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         2       Assembly Bill Number 8759 and substitute it for

         3       the identical Senate Bill 6108.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         5       Substitution ordered.

         6                      There is a message from the

         7       Governor.  On Senator Present's motion to accept

         8       the message, all in favor aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Contrary, nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The message is accepted.

        13                      Last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is the Governor

        23       anywhere around?











                                                             
6542

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The

         2       Senate will please come to order.  We are still

         3       in session.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       we'll return to Calendar 870, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Secretary

         8       will once again read the title of Senate 870.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senate Bill 870,

        10       by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4900-B, a

        11       bill to amend the Emergency Rent Control Law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  When we

        13       last left, Senator Dollinger had the floor.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, may

        15       I just ask one question: When did the debate

        16       start on this bill?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The

        18       debate started at 9:58.

        19                      Senator Dollinger.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It's going to

        21       come back, isn't it?

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  They want a vote

        23       on this piece of trash.











                                                             
6543

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Well,

         2       before Senator Dollinger speaks, I'll tell you I

         3       currently have a list; there's Senator

         4       Dollinger, Senator Halperin and Senator Gold,

         5       and debate started at 9:58 with about a five- or

         6       six-minute interruption.

         7                      Senator Daly.

         8                      SENATOR DALY:  I would ask if

         9       Senator Dollinger would yield.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        11       Dollinger, would you yield to a question by

        12       Senator Daly?

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I'll yield.

        14       That's fine.

        15                      SENATOR DALY:  I'm sorry.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        17       Dollinger?

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will

        19       yield.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        21       Daly.

        22                      SENATOR DALY:  You raised the

        23       point before, you were discussing with Senator











                                                             
6544

         1       Hannon about the hardship applications, is that

         2       correct?

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, I can barely hear Senator Daly.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       Daly, Senator Dollinger, Senator Waldon, thank

         7       you.  Sergeant-of-Arms, please clear the back of

         8       the chamber.  Will the members please take their

         9       seats.

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  Senator Dollinger,

        11       you were questioning Senator Hannon and showed

        12       great interest in the hardship application

        13       section of the bill.  Can you tell me how many

        14       hardship applications have been approved since

        15       the hardship program went into effect in 199 -

        16       1984?

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I -- Mr.

        18       President, the answer to that is I don't have

        19       the faintest idea.

        20                      SENATOR DALY:  Would you believe,

        21       Senator, that small owners -- would you believe,

        22       Senator, that among small owners, none, zero;

        23       one with a larger owner and in nine years.  Now,











                                                             
6545

         1       Senator, would you agree that, if you have a

         2       hardship program like that, the hardship program

         3       that, in effect, for nine years ends up with

         4       only -- with no application being approved, that

         5       something's wrong with the law or the

         6       administration of the law?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         8       President, Mr. President, my shorthand answer to

         9       that is that's the kind of debate I'd hope the

        10       Housing Committee would have had on this bill

        11       long before it got to the floor of this chamber,

        12       and my disappointment is as I expressed when we

        13       talked about the motion to recommit when I voted

        14       to recommit the bill, it was my hope that that

        15       kind of analysis as to the extent that those

        16       figures are correct and may well be, Senator

        17       Daly, I'm not going to argue with the figures, I

        18       don't have them, but I had hoped that that kind

        19       of debate about the merits of the hardship

        20       program would have occurred in the Housing

        21       Committee where this bill belonged, where it

        22       should have been debated, and where it should

        23       have been the subject of discussion.











                                                             
6546

         1                      Instead, here we are on the floor

         2       with you offering numbers that I'm not familiar

         3       with; I haven't seen the data.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

         5       me, Senator Dollinger.  Senator Hannon, why do

         6       you rise? Senator Hannon.

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  Senator

         8       Dollinger has raised three times in a row about

         9       whether things were brought up in committee or

        10       not.  The point is, they were brought up when we

        11       did the Bruno bill, and they were brought up

        12       when we did our hearings, so the things he's

        13       asking about happened.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        15       Onorato, wait a minute.

        16                      Would the Senators just take

        17       their seats for a moment.  Senator Onorato,

        18       Senator Daly, Senator Dollinger. The

        19       Sergeant-at-Arms in the back of the chamber, I

        20       want the rear of the chamber to be seated or

        21       take conversations outside. The stenographer is

        22       indicating that she may not take down the

        23       proceedings of the Senate. If she can not take











                                                             
6547

         1       down the proceedings of the Senate, we may not

         2       proceed, so we will have some order and decorum

         3       in the chamber.

         4                      Senator Onorato stood up on a

         5       point of order; he may continue.  One moment,

         6       Senator Onorato.  One moment.  One moment,

         7       Senator. The rear of the chamber, please clear

         8       itself now.

         9                      Senator Onorato.

        10                      SENATOR ONORATO:  In all the

        11       confusion that's been taking place here this

        12       evening, you can't hear one another talk, it

        13       appears we just passed a bill under an emergency

        14       circumstance.  Would someone please tell me what

        15       I just voted on? I'd like to know what we voted

        16       on.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        18       Onorato, you voted on an extender of the current

        19       rent control laws a moment ago.

        20                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President, I

        23       want to answer.  Mr. President.











                                                             
6548

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         2       Halperin, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  I just wish to

         4       advise Senator Onorato that you voted on an

         5       omnibus 24-hour extender bill which extended the

         6       rent control laws, the medical liability law and

         7       the Banking Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Daly, you were asking a question of Senator

        10       Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR DALY:  I have one more

        12       question of Senator Dollinger.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        14       Dollinger?

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  He will

        17       yield.  Senator Daly.

        18                      SENATOR DALY:  Senator Dollinger,

        19       you were -- the second point you were raising

        20       with Senator Hannon was the point about opening

        21       the books and you sounded sympathetic to it.  Do

        22       you think all of the landlords of upstate New

        23       York, including those of Monroe County which you











                                                             
6549

         1       represent, should be forced to open their books?

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  For what

         3       purpose, Mr. President? Is there a purpose that

         4       they should be opening them, or opening it?

         5                      SENATOR DALY:  I asked the

         6       question, Senator.  May I repeat the question of

         7       the Senator, Mr. President?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Daly.

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  Senator Dollinger

        11       showed great sympathy to the landlords in New

        12       York City being required to open their books and

        13       was questioning Senator Hannon on it, and I was

        14       just asking Senator Dollinger is he saying that

        15       landlords in New York should be forced to open

        16       their books while upstate landlords are not, or

        17       is he saying that people who own property

        18       throughout New York State should all be forced

        19       to open their books?

        20                      I don't think that's a

        21       complicated question.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It isn't a

        23       complicated question, Mr. President.  Let me











                                                             
6550

         1       give Senator Daly the answer.  The answer is

         2       very simple.  What I've heard Senator Hannon

         3       say, and others in this chamber say, is that the

         4       area of wealthy decontrol, there is a problem

         5       because someone isn't making enough money off

         6       the property, off the wealthy apartment

         7       dwellers.  There's a problem because there isn't

         8       enough wealth being generated.

         9                      My question to Senator Hannon,

        10       which is the source, I think, of Senator Daly's

        11       question was, if the claim is that they're not

        12       making enough of a return on investment that

        13       they need decontrol or destabilization to

        14       increase their rate of return, then the question

        15       becomes how do we know that they're not making

        16       sufficient return on the buildings that they

        17       own.  What I asked was simply whether or not the

        18       Housing Committee had, in order to justify the

        19       claim by the landlords that they weren't making

        20       a sufficient return, whether they had asked the

        21       property owners to produce their tax returns to

        22       verify their return on the buildings and,

        23       therefore, substantiate their claim that they're











                                                             
6551

         1       not making enough money when instead the

         2       approach seems to be to go to the tenant

         3       instead, say to the tenant we're now going to

         4       try to find out whether you're wealthy or

         5       whether you're, you know, in luxury status, so

         6       we want to ask you to divulge your tax returns

         7       instead.

         8                      My question was directed, Mr.

         9       President, at simply the issue of trying to

        10       determine whether or not the claim by the

        11       landlords that they weren't making sufficient

        12       return had any objective basis based on the

        13       committee's investigation.  That's why I had

        14       asked the question.

        15                      SENATOR DALY:  Well, will the

        16       Senator yield for one more question?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse me

        18       again.  Please -- just please.  Senators, please

        19       give your attention to the debate that's on the

        20       floor.  Senator Daly.

        21                      SENATOR DALY:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.











                                                             
6552

         1       President.

         2                      SENATOR DALY:  One question.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I was asking

         4       Senator Hannon to yield.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       Dollinger, you're not yielding.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No, I will

         8       not yield.  I would like to continue to ask

         9       Senator Hannon a question.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Who has the

        11       floor?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  You have

        13       the floor to ask a question.  He will not yield;

        14       Senator Dollinger has the floor.

        15                      Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        17       you, Mr. President, to Senator Hannon.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        19       Hannon, will you yield to Senator Dollinger?

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator

        21       Hannon, I understand there was no examination of

        22       the books and records of the rent stabilization

        23       committee, the real estate committee PAC or the











                                                             
6553

         1        -- none of those committees produced their

         2       records to show how much money they had made on

         3       the apartment buildings that they held in the

         4       city of New York, is that correct?

         5                      SENATOR HANNON:  What is the

         6       point of your question?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Excuse me,

         8       Mr. President.  I didn't hear the answer.

         9                      SENATOR HANNON:  I said, what is

        10       the point of your question?

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Do I have to

        12       justify the point of my question?

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Senator

        14       Dollinger, is your question then to lead to the

        15       point why are we asking people who are subject

        16       to luxury decontrol to open their books because

        17       we're not asking the owners, because then you

        18       haven't read the provision on the income

        19       verification.

        20                      We're not asking anybody to open

        21       their books under this bill, besides what I told

        22       you.  The people that you want to open their

        23       books are doing so.  They're opening their books











                                                             
6554

         1       to the city of New York.  They're opening their

         2       books to the Rent Guidelines Board.  It would be

         3       superfluous if he had to do that, but we have

         4       looked at the statistics, the reports from the

         5       two entities.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I guess that

         7       makes the point, Mr. Chairman, Mr. President.

         8       I'd just like to address the bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  On the

        10       bill, Senator Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It seems to

        12       me there's been a lot of discussion tonight on

        13       the concept of wealth, when you've got wealth

        14       and when you don't have wealth.  I'd just

        15       suggest that it doesn't appear as though the

        16       landlords in New York City have an absence of

        17       wealth.  After all, they were able to donate

        18       about $335,000 to the Republican Party last

        19       year, of which about $222,000 went to the

        20       Republican Senate Campaign Committee, and I

        21       submit to you gentlemen that this is really all

        22       about politics.  This is all about tinkering

        23       with the system that generates wealth, wealth











                                                             
6555

         1       for certain tenants who may live for less than

         2       the landlord makes, wealth for a landlord who

         3       may not be making the income that he thinks he

         4       deserves.

         5                      SENATOR DALY:  Would the Senator

         6       yield?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No, I will

         8       not, Mr. President.  And what this debate has

         9       been about all today is how the transfer of

        10       wealth in the political process occurs.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Excuse

        13       me, Senator Dollinger.  Senator Padavan.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Just point out

        15       that we are approaching two hours and ten

        16       minutes on the debate, and while there would be

        17       no intent on my part to restrict any Senator

        18       from making a remark that's pertinent, we're

        19       well into the morning, and we have a long day

        20       tomorrow and, for that reason, I would urge

        21       those who wish to speak, to do so briefly and in

        22       ten minutes I will rise and call upon you again

        23       to enforce the two-hour limit.











                                                             
6556

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  There are

         2       two more -

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm joining in the

         4       request.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       Halperin is the only Senator after Senator

         7       Dollinger.  Wait a minute, Senator Halperin.

         8       Senator Dollinger has not yielded the floor.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President, I'll be very brief; just one more

        11       minute.  What happened in this case that the

        12       landlords in New York City gave the Republican

        13       Party a substantial amount of campaign

        14       contributions, and you know something.  I didn't

        15       even know what the Rent Stabilization

        16       Association PAC was until $5,000 of its money

        17       showed up in Monroe County for one of my

        18       opponents running in a race against me, and what

        19       this is very simply, gentlemen, is it's the

        20       political process repaying the political debt.

        21                      You might as well put a sign

        22       outside the chamber that says "political power"

        23       with that classic real estate slogan "for











                                                             
6557

         1       sale".

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Last

         3       section.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         5       Slow roll call.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 34.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Slow roll

         9       call has been requested.  Secretary will please

        10       ring the bells and call the roll slowly.

        11                      Senators are asked to return to

        12       the chamber.  The hour is late.  Let's complete

        13       this roll call as soon as possible.  Secretary

        14       will call the roll.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush

        16       excused.

        17                      Senator Bruno.  Senator Bruno.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President, to explain my vote.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        21       Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  We have had some

        23       exchanges here this evening which have sometimes











                                                             
6558

         1       been pleasant, sometimes unpleasant, but we have

         2       presently resolved the situation that gives some

         3       comfort to people that could potentially be

         4       uncomfortable, and I want to just restate that

         5       our intent, my intent or our intent, I think

         6       others that relate to this position are aimed

         7       directly at luxury apartments.

         8                      The 2 million people in

         9       rent-controlled apartments are not what is at

        10       issue here, and listening to some very emotional

        11       remarks which are less emotional since we have a

        12       couple hundred people less in the chamber, but

        13       we're not dealing with the 2 million people that

        14       live in rent control; we're dealing with a few

        15       thousand that take advantage of the system, and

        16       I hope as we go on over these next 24 hours, we

        17       bear that in mind, Senators.  It's those few

        18       thousand people, some of them in this chamber

        19       that are enjoying the privilege of luxury

        20       apartments that are controlled unnecessarily.

        21       So I vote yes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        23       Bruno in the affirmative.  Continue the roll











                                                             
6559

         1       call.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Connor.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         5                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

         7                      SENATOR DALY:  Yes.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       DeFrancisco.

        10                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        12       Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        15                      SENATOR ESPADA:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        17                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I vote aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Senator Galiber, how do you vote?

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  No.  Senator

        23       Gold.











                                                             
6560

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         3       Gonzalez.

         4                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  No.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Goodman.

         6                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         8       Halperin.

         9                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Hoffmann.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      Senator Holland.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        19       to explain my vote.

        20                      Mr. President, I've listened and

        21       been interested in the debate.  I haven't had

        22       the opportunity to participate in it because

        23       others have monopolized the discussion, but











                                                             
6561

         1       suffice it to say that the other side has tried

         2       to make some sort of an argument that wealthy

         3       people deserve to be subsidized by the rest of

         4       the people in the city and the state of New

         5       York.  They have obviously failed miserably in

         6       that argument.  It's not a justifiable

         7       proposition, and I vote aye.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         9       Johnson in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

        10       call.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

        12                      (There was no response. )

        13                      Senator Kuhl.

        14                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        16                      SENATOR LACK:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

        20                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Leichter.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No.











                                                             
6562

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         2                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         4                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         6                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino.

        10                      (Affirmative indication. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.

        12                      Senator Markowitz.

        13                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Explain my

        14       vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        16       Markowitz.

        17                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  My

        18       colleagues, especially Republicans obviously,

        19       the public officials of New York City, every one

        20       of them, including one "wannabe", all from your

        21       party, I should say, have indicated they want to

        22       see the current rent laws renewed as is.

        23                      Senator Hannon, you mentioned











                                                             
6563

         1       something before which struck me.  I don't know

         2       if anybody heard it the way I heard it.  You

         3       said that, as rents are up, the higher rent

         4       levels, the vacancy levels are higher.  This is

         5       what you said, that as the rents are up, the

         6       higher the rent, the greater the vacancy.  This

         7       is what you said during your presentation a

         8       moment ago, according to the reports.

         9                      Now, are you arguing to my mind

        10       that decontrolling luxury apartments would fill

        11       those apartments quicker by making the landlord

        12       be able to charge even greater rents thereby

        13       causing greater vacancies and less income in

        14       those buildings?

        15                      So, if you think about your own

        16       arguments, and I can say it easily again, you

        17       realize that you're going on treacherous

        18       grounds.  You know it's not that I'm really

        19       overly concerned with the tenant that's making

        20       200- or 250,000, but I have a healthy fear of

        21       government.

        22                      I've learnt something, being here

        23       for 14, 15 years, and being a citizen of our











                                                             
6564

         1       city and state for a number of years beyond

         2       that.  If you take -- give them the finger, they

         3       take the hand and the arm, then the body.  If we

         4       start off with an income of $100,000 this year,

         5       next year it's 75,000, next year the rent

         6       decontrol goes from 2,000 rental to 500 or 600

         7       rentals.

         8                      Senator Hannon, we have to stop

         9       it before it even begins.  I vote no.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        11       Markowitz in the negative.  We are in a roll

        12       call, please.  Continue the roll call.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        14       Masiello.

        15                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mega.

        17                      (There was no audible response. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        19                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        21       Montgomery.

        22                      (There was no response.

        23                      Senator Nolan.











                                                             
6565

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      Senator Nozzolio.

         3                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Ohrenstein.

         6                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

         8                      SENATOR ONORATO:  To explain my

         9       vote, Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        11       Onorato.

        12                      SENATOR ONORATO:  I'm really

        13       amazed.  I think I've been up here for ten years

        14       and the system here continually amazes me.  In

        15       the period of three minutes while we're debating

        16       a bill to extend rent control and stabilization,

        17       decontrol luxury apartments, in three minutes

        18       time we extended deregulation for the banks, for

        19       medical malpractice and for the rent

        20       stabilization and rent control.

        21                      Can you imagine what we can do if

        22       we were to lock up the leadership for 24

        23       straight hours, what kind of a bill we can get











                                                             
6566

         1       out here, and if I'd been given an opportunity

         2       to participate in such a debate, I would be very

         3       happy to volunteer my services.  So under those

         4       circumstances, I vote no.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

         6       Onorato in the negative.  Continue the roll

         7       call.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Oppenheimer.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Senator Padavan.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.

        14                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Paterson.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Present.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        21                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        23       Santiago.











                                                             
6567

         1                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears.

         3                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

         5                      (There was no audible response. )

         6                      Senator Sheffer.

         7                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

        11                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

        13                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President,

        14       to explain my vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        16       Solomon.

        17                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Unfortunately,

        18       since the debate on the bill itself included

        19       debate on a motion where I didn't have time to

        20       ask one particular question, I'll ask it

        21       rhetorically.  I just wonder if there was an

        22       inflation factor in this bill, or is $100,000 if

        23       we adopt it now, would be forever because it's











                                                             
6568

         1       interesting now to note that rents increase each

         2       year and under the stabilization system whether

         3       it be three percent or nine percent or 12

         4       percent, depending upon what the factors are

         5       taken into consideration, inflation and price of

         6       oil.

         7                      It would be interesting that we

         8       want to lock in the price for decontrol at

         9       $100,000, yet continue to increase the rents,

        10       yet, as we all know, salaries tend to increase

        11       in times of inflation and income tends to

        12       increase.  I dare say I can't think of too many,

        13       for insurance, suburban teachers or principals

        14       or administrators that have taken decreases in

        15       pay.  I'm sure the BOCES superintendents don't

        16       take decreases in pay.  I know that's against

        17       their rules out in certain parts of the state,

        18       but that's one of the things that we never even

        19       considered, and I find that hundred thousand

        20       dollar floating figure very interesting if it's

        21       going to be a permanent figure and, of course,

        22       since we really want to be concerned, as Senator

        23       Bruno said before on the recommital vote, we











                                                             
6569

         1       should be concerned with principle.  I think we

         2       should use a $100,000 figure for SUNY tuition,

         3       Medicaid whether you keep that $70,000 or not.

         4       There's a whole host of programs we can look at

         5       and start using means tests to determine whether

         6       or not you should get certain benefits and be

         7       subsidized by this state.

         8                      So for those reasons, I vote no.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        10       Solomon in the negative.  Continue the roll

        11       call.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      Senator Stachowski.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        17       Stafford.

        18                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        20       Stavisky.

        21                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

        23                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.











                                                             
6570

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      Senator Velella.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      Senator Volker.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Senator Waldon.

         8                      (Negative indication. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  No.  Senator

        10       Wright.

        11                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        13       Absentees.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        15       Hoffmann.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      Senator Jones.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Senator Montgomery.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      Senator Nolan.

        22                      (There was no response. )

        23                      Senator Paterson.











                                                             
6571

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      Senator Spano.  Senator Spano.

         5                      SENATOR SPANO:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

         7                      SENATOR TULLY: Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

         9                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Results.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33, nays

        14       23.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        19       We call up Calendar 471, please.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Secretary

        21       will read Calendar Number 471.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       471, by member of the Assembly Wright, Assembly











                                                             
6572

         1       Bill Number 6975, amends Chapter 514 of the Laws

         2       of 1983, amending the Private Housing Finance

         3       Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Last

         5       section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      Senator Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1320,

        16       please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Calendar

        18       1520.  1620 -- 1320, sorry.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1320, Senator Marino moves to discharge the

        21       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        22       8711 and substitute it for the identical Third

        23       Reading 1320.











                                                             
6573

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         3       Substitution ordered.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Is there a

         5       message at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  There is

         7       a message at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

         9       accept the message.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Motion of

        11       Senator Present to accept the message, all those

        12       in favor aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Contrary nay.

        15                      (There was no response. )

        16                      The message is accepted.  Last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.











                                                             
6574

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      Senator Present.  Senator, can we

         4       return to motions and resolutions?

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Motions

         7       and resolutions. Secretary will read

         8       substitutions.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12 of the

        10       calendar, Senator Kuhl moves to discharge the

        11       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        12       5737-B and substitute it for the identical Third

        13       Reading 648.

        14                      On page 17, Senator Cook moves to

        15       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

        16       Bill Number 8059 and substitute it for the

        17       identical Calendar Number 814.

        18                      On page 31, Senator Padavan moves

        19       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        20       Assembly Bill Number 8430, and substitute it for

        21       the identical Third Reading 1317.

        22                      On page 45, Senator Cook moves to

        23       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly











                                                             
6575

         1       Bill Number 8510 and substitute it for the

         2       identical Third Reading 954.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         4       Substitution is ordered.

         5                      Senator Trunzo.

         6                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

         7       on page 32, I offer the following amendments to

         8       Calendar Number 1326, Senate Print Number 3463,

         9       and ask that said bill remain on Third Reading

        10       Calendar.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        12       Amendments received, bill will retain its

        13       place.

        14                      Senator Libous.

        15                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        16       wish to call up my Bill Number 2060 recalled

        17       from the Assembly, now at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Secretary

        19       will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        21       Libous, Senate Bill 2060, an act to amend the

        22       Mental Hygiene Law and the Public Health Law.

        23                      Senator Libous.











                                                             
6576

         1                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

         2       now move to reconsider the vote by which the

         3       bill was passed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Call the

         5       roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senator

        10       Libous.

        11                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        12       offer up the following amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        14       Amendments received; the bill will retain its

        15       place.

        16                      Senator Holland.

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I offer the

        18       following amendments to Calendar Number 1450,

        19       Senate Print 6029, and ask that said bill retain

        20       its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        22       Amendments received, bill will retain its

        23       place.











                                                             
6577

         1                      Senator Holland.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Also on page 8,

         3       I offer the following amendments to Calendar

         4       Number 381, Senate Print Number 48-B, and ask

         5       that the said bill retain its place.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

         7       Amendments received, bill will retain its place

         8       on the Third Reading Calendar.

         9                      Senator Stafford.

        10                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        11       I move we please remove the star on Calendar

        12       Number, sponsor's star, 682.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Star is

        14       removed at the request of the sponsor.

        15                      Senator Goodman.

        16                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

        17       I have a privileged resolution at the desk.  May

        18       I move -- ask that it be read, its title be read

        19       and I move -- will be prepared to move it.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Secretary

        21       will read the title of the resolution.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        23       Resolution, by Senator Goodman, honoring the











                                                             
6578

         1       life of Emil Lenz.

         2                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Wish to move

         3       its adoption, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  On the

         5       resolution, all those in favor aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Contrary nay.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      The resolution is adopted.

        10                      Senator Saland.

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President,

        12       Calendar 1141, I'd like to remove the sponsor's

        13       star; it's Senate 5584-A.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Star is

        15       removed at the request of the sponsor.

        16                      Senator Sears.

        17                      SENATOR SEARS:  I offer the

        18       following amendments to Calendar 187, Senate

        19       Print Number 2003-A and ask that the said bill

        20       retain its place.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:

        22       Amendments received; bill will retain its place

        23       on the order of third reading.











                                                             
6579

         1                      Further motions and resolutions?

         2                      Senator Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         4       there being no further business, I move that we

         5       adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LACK:  Senate

         7       will stand adjourned until 1:30 p.m.

         8                      (Whereupon, at 12:30 a.m., the

         9       Senate adjourned. )

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