Regular Session - July 7, 1993

                                                                 
8033

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         9               ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                 July 7, 1993

        11                  2:58 p.m.

        12

        13

        14               REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
8034

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.  I'd like to ask everyone present

         4       to rise and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with

         5       me.

         6                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         8                      Please be seated.

         9                      In the absence of visiting

        10       clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of

        11       silence.

        12                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        13       silence. )

        14                      Secretary will read the Journal.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        16       Tuesday, July 6, the Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment.  Prayer by Father Peter G. Young of

        18       the Blessed Sacrament Church of Bolton Landing.

        19       The Journal of Monday, July 5, was read and

        20       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Hearing no

        22       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        23                      The Chair will state that the











                                                             
8035

         1       reason for the lights being dim is that the

         2       Office of General Services has advised us that,

         3       due to concern about a brown-out and concern

         4       about power surge, that until the immediate

         5       emergency has passed, they've asked us not to

         6       use the television lights.  This, believe it or

         7       not, is the normal light of the state Senate.

         8       So we will operate in the normal light.

         9                      I think you will adjust, Senator

        10       Gold.  If I know you, you will adjust very

        11       quickly to the different atmosphere.

        12                      Presentation of petitions.

        13                      Messages from the Assembly.

        14                      Messages from the Governor.

        15                      Reports of standing committees.

        16                      Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

        18       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        19       following bills directly for third reading:

        20                      Senate Bill Number 4696A, by

        21       Senator Larkin, authorize the Highland Falls

        22       Central School Districts to finance the

        23       accumulated deficit.











                                                             
8036

         1                      5124B, by Senator Marchi, an act

         2       to amend the Public Health Law.

         3                      5132A, by Senator Farley,

         4       Environmental Conservation Law.

         5                      5178B, by Senator Johnson,

         6       restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to Tier II

         7       membership.

         8                      5795, by Senator Cook, an act to

         9       amend the Education Law.

        10                      5830A, by Senator Velella, an act

        11       to amend the Insurance Law.

        12                      5862B, by Senator Velella, an act

        13       to amend the Insurance Law.

        14                      6136, by Senator LaValle, an act

        15       to amend the Social Services Law.

        16                      6169, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

        17       act to amend the Executive Law.

        18                      6175, by the Committee on Rules,

        19       amends Chapter 883 of the Laws of 1980.

        20                      6180, by Senator DeFrancisco,

        21       Real Property Tax Law.

        22                      6182, by Senator Larkin,

        23       Navigation Law.











                                                             
8037

         1                      6188, by the Senate Committee on

         2       Rules, an act to amend the Education Law.

         3                      6189, by the Senate Committee on

         4       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law.

         5                      6190, by the Senate Committee on

         6       Rules, an act to amend the Local Finance Law.

         7                      6191, by the Senate Committee on

         8       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law.

         9                      6193, by the Senate Committee on

        10       Rules, granting access to certain records

        11       maintained by the Division of Criminal Justice

        12       Services.

        13                      6194, by the Senate Committee on

        14       Rules, amends Chapter 60 of the Laws of 1993.

        15                      Assembly Bill Number 8588, by the

        16       Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

        17       Education Law.

        18                      Also Assembly Bill Number 8732,

        19       by the Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to

        20       amend the Education Law.

        21                      All bills reported directly for

        22       third reading.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without











                                                             
8038

         1       objection, third reading.

         2                      Reports of select committees.

         3                      Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                      Motions and resolutions.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 27 of

         7       today's calendar, Senator Skelos moves to

         8       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

         9       Bill Number 6823C, and substitute it for the

        10       identical Third Reading 1601.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        12       ordered.

        13                      Senator Holland.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        15       I wish to call up Senator Levy's bill, Print

        16       Number 4849, recalled from the Assembly which is

        17       now at the desk.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Levy,

        21       Senate Bill Number 4849, an act to amend the

        22       Public Authorities Law.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,











                                                             
8039

         1       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         2       bill was passed.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

         4       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         6       reconsideration. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       before the house.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        11       I now offer the following amendments and now

        12       move to discharge from the Committee on Finance

        13       Assembly Print 5292B and substitute it for his

        14       bill.  The Senate bill on first passage was

        15       voted unanimously.  I now move that the

        16       substituted Assembly bill have its third reading

        17       at this time.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate bill

        19       is amended, and the Assembly substitution is

        20       made.

        21                      Read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8040

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Unanimous.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      Senator Mega.

         7                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President, on

         8       behalf of Senator Hannon, I wish to call up his

         9       bill, Senate Print Number 4460, recalled from

        10       the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        12       read.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        14       Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4460, an act to amend

        15       the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

        16                      SENATOR MEGA:  I now move to

        17       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        18       passed and ask that the bill be restored to the

        19       order of third reading.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        21       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        23       reconsideration. )











                                                             
8041

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Third reading.

         3                      SENATOR MEGA:  I now move to

         4       discharge from the Committee on Codes Assembly

         5       Print Number 1025 and substitute it for Senator

         6       Hannon's identical bill.  The Senate bill on

         7       first passage was voted unanimously.  I now move

         8       that the substituted Assembly bill have its

         9       third reading at this time.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        11       ordered.

        12                      Read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Unanimous.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Will you take

        23       up the non-controversial calendar, please.











                                                             
8042

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         2       read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6 of

         4       today's calendar, Calendar Number 395, by -

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         7       aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       470.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       588.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

        17       high.  It will be laid aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       833.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  The bill is

        21       high.  Lay it aside.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

        23       high.  It will be laid aside.











                                                             
8043

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       887.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1108.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is high

         9        -- oh, wait.  1108 or 1109?

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  I said 1108.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

        12       high.  It will be laid aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1133, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        15       Assembly Bill Number 8294A, an act to amend the

        16       Executive Law, the Criminal Procedure Law and

        17       the Family Court Act.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8044

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 30.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1185, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 7838A, amends Chapter 824

         7       of the Laws of 1933.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         9       section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1251.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside,,

        20       please.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        22       aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8045

         1       1255.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

         3       high.  It will be laid aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1333.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

         7       high.  It will be laid aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1338.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside,

        11       please.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        13       aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1347.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is

        17       high.  It will be laid aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1371.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside,

        21       please.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        23       aside.











                                                             
8046

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1461.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside,

         4       please.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         6       aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1517, by the Assembly Committee on Rules.

         9       Assembly Bill Number 8248A, Public Authorities

        10       Law.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Explanation.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill will be

        13       laid aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 1544, by

        15       the Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

        16       Number 7898A, Public Authorities Law.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.











                                                             
8047

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1545, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         5       Assembly Bill Number 8458A, an act to amend the

         6       Public Authorities Law.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         8       section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.  Nays

        14       one, Senator Hannon recorded in the negative.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1548.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Lay that bill

        20       aside.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        22       aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8048

         1       1553, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         2       Assembly Bill Number 8751, an act to amend the

         3       Tax Law.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         5       section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        12       passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1580.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       high.  It will be laid aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1582, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        19       Bill Number 6116, authorize the participation of

        20       local government units.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        22       section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
8049

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1607, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6148.

         9                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Lay it aside,

        10       please.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1609, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number

        15       6153, Retirement and Social Security Law.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40, nays

        23       one, Senator Gold recorded in the negative.











                                                             
8050

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1611.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       high.  It will be laid aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1613, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, Senate

         9       Bill Number 6164, organization of the Unadilla

        10       Central School District.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 42.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1614, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 6165,

        22       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last











                                                             
8051

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40, nays 2,

         7       Senators Farley and Johnson recorded in the

         8       negative.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1624, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        13       Assembly Bill Number 7878, an act to amend the

        14       Election Law.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        16       section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        22       the negative on Calendar Number 1624 are

        23       Senators Dollinger, Jones, Kuhl, Larkin, Pataki,











                                                             
8052

         1       Saland and Sheffer.  Ayes 35, nays 7.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  May I have

         7       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         8       on Calendar 1609, please.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        10       objection, so ordered.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1630, by the Senate Committee on rules, Senate

        13       Bill Number 6167, amends a chapter of the laws

        14       of 1993.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        16       section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        23       passed.











                                                             
8053

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1631, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 6170,

         3       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm sorry.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  This is 1631, by

         6       Senator Levy.

         7                      Read the last section.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will you tell me

         9       the bill number?

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senate Bill

        11       Number 6170, an act to amend the Vehicle and

        12       Traffic Law, in relation to the re-examination

        13       and disqualification of certain bus drivers.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        16       aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1633, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Bill Number

        19       8834, amends Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The message was

        22       accepted last evening.  The bill is laid aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8054

         1       1636.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         4       aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1638 -

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a home

         8       rule message at the desk.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  -- by the

        10       Assembly Committee on Rules.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Lay it aside.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        14       aside.

        15                      That completes action on the

        16       non-controversial calendar.

        17                      Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       will you recognize Senator Galiber, please.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber.

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President.

        22       I have a privileged resolution at the desk

        23       memorializing a Ms. Wise.  I would like the











                                                             
8055

         1       title be read.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         3       read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         5       Galiber, Legislative Resolution memorializing

         6       the life and career of Gloria E. Wise.

         7                      (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in

         8       the chair. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        10       resolution.  All those in favor say aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Those opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      The resolution is adopted.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Present.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        18       let's take up the controversial calendar in

        19       order.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        21       Controversial calendar.  Secretary will read it.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,

        23       Calendar Number 395, by member of the Assembly











                                                             
8056

         1       Parment, Assembly Bill Number 3819B, an act to

         2       amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

         7       Calendar Number 470, by member of the Assembly

         8       Lasher, Assembly Bill Number 1829B, Private

         9       Housing Finance Law.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       588 -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It's a

        16       high print.  Lay it aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       833.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It's

        20       high.  Lay it aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       887.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it











                                                             
8057

         1       aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1108.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It's a

         5       high print.  Lay it aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 21,

         7       Calendar Number 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate

         8       Bill Number 5263, an act to amend the Labor Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

        15       that bill aside.  Withdraw the roll call.

        16                      Senator Present.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1638,

        18       please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        20       Secretary will call up 1638.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1638, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        23       Assembly Bill Number 8595, authorize the city of











                                                             
8058

         1       New York to continue the use of a portion of the

         2       Pelham Bay Park, in the borough of the Bronx.

         3                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

         4       Explanation.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  I think Senator

         6       Galiber would like an explanation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         8       Explanation.  Senator Maltese, are you the

         9       explainer?

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, if you'll

        13       hold on just one second for Senator Galiber.

        14                      SENATOR GALIBER:  I think Senator

        15       Velella wanted to debate it.  Do you want to go

        16       forward now, or do you want to wait for him?

        17                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Lay it aside,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay the

        20       bill aside.

        21                      Senator Present.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        23       can we stand at ease for a moment?











                                                             
8059

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  We will

         2       stand easy.

         3                      (Whereupon, at 3:27 p.m., the

         4       Senate was at ease. )

         5                      (Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the

         6       Senate reconvened. )

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Present.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  For those who

        11       would listen -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hold

        13       on.  I think this is an important notice.

        14                      (Whereupon, the Acting President

        15       gaveled for order. )

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I hope it's

        17       important.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Everything you say is important.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  We intend to

        21       work through and finish tonight.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

        23       right.











                                                             
8060

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's hear it

         2       for that.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Let's

         4       hear it -- yea-a-a-a-a!

         5                      (Applause).

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  There will be

         7       some down time, but we will try to keep it

         8       maintained, and I need everybody's cooperation.

         9       We have requested a number of messages from the

        10       Governor that are forthcoming, I hope.  I

        11       certainly need everybody's cooperation.  We will

        12       be considering a number of nominations, so there

        13       will be a meeting of the Finance Committee and

        14       the Judiciary Committee called from the floor.

        15       So bear with us and bear with me and those down

        16       times when we stand at ease. I would hope that

        17       most members will remain in the chamber so when

        18       they have a bill that comes before us, they will

        19       be here to speak to it.

        20                      Thank you.

        21                      Would you recognize -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Shall I

        23       repeat your message?











                                                             
8061

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  As best you

         2       can.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  As best

         4       as I can summarize: The Senate will be working

         5       through with some down time.  All Senators are

         6       requested to be in the chamber in case their

         7       bill comes up.  The Majority Leader and Minority

         8       Leader has asked the cooperation of all members

         9       so that we can finish up on a reasonable hour.

        10                      Senator Holland.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

        12       There will be a meeting of the Social Services

        13       Committee in Room 124 of the Capitol at 4:30 to

        14       consider the nomination of Mike Dowling

        15       Commissioner of Social Services.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

        17       will be a meeting of the Social Services

        18       Committee in Capitol 124 to consider the

        19       nomination of Michael Dowling, the Honorable

        20       Michael Dowling of the Governor's office at

        21       4:30.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
8062

         1       call up Calendar 1638.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1638.

         3       Secretary will read it.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1638, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 8595.

         7                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Explanation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  An

         9       explanation has been asked for.

        10                      Senator Maltese.

        11                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        12       the purpose of this bill is to authorize the

        13       city of New York to continue the use pf a

        14       portion of Pelham Bay Park in the borough of the

        15       Bronx in an area called Rodman's Neck for law

        16       enforcement and public safety purposes.

        17                      The portion that is involved is

        18       48.7 acres, a portion that is 1.7366 percent of

        19       the entire park which is 2,764 thousand 764

        20       acres.  This parcel has been dedicated as

        21       parkland since World War I, but has been

        22       repeatedly used by federal and state agencies

        23       for military and law enforcement purposes.











                                                             
8063

         1                      Since 1969, the police department

         2       and other law enforcement and public safety

         3       agencies have utilized the site as an outdoor

         4       firing range, training facility and bomb

         5       detonation area.

         6                      Mr. President, the site is used

         7       by approximately 25,000 New York City law

         8       enforcement personnel and approximately 5- to

         9       6,000 personnel from all other parts of the

        10       state and the country.  I have just gotten off

        11       the telephone with Ray Kelly, the Police

        12       Commissioner of the city of New York, who has

        13       advised me in the strongest terms that this is

        14       absolutely needed as a facility.

        15                      It is in a remote area.  It is in

        16       an area that is well suited for the purposes

        17       they utilize it, having apparently -- I have

        18       never been there, but apparently building sites

        19       that can be used in the training of police

        20       officers.

        21                      It is utilized not only for

        22       training for firing weapons of all types but for

        23       undercover -- I retract that -- for the purposes











                                                             
8064

         1       of police officers who would have to fire or

         2       protect themselves from residences, from behind

         3       buildings, behind occupied buildings. It is a

         4       facility that is absolutely unique.

         5                      The Mayor of the city of New York

         6       and the Police Commissioner have indicated that

         7       if a time comes when the facility is no longer

         8       needed, they will then utilize it for no other

         9       purposes, and it will revert to park land.

        10                      The reason for this legislation

        11       is a lawsuit was brought by a group called Sound

        12       Watch in July of '92 against the City alleging

        13       that the use of Rodman's Neck as an outdoor

        14       firing range required approval of the

        15       Legislature.  This approval would make the

        16       lawsuit moot.

        17                      It was passed by the Assembly,

        18       non-controversial, with one dissenting vote,

        19       Assemblywoman Glick.  The district is entirely

        20       within Assemblyman Kaufman's area, and he is the

        21       sponsor and carries the bill.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        23       Galiber and then Senator Oppenheimer.











                                                             
8065

         1                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, will

         2       you yield for a question?

         3                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Some of my

         5       colleagues asked me to -- when you had that

         6       meeting with the Police Commissioner, did you

         7       talk about those two persons in the car this

         8       morning?

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  He didn't

        10       mention it.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  He didn't

        12       mention it.  You didn't either, did you?

        13                      SENATOR MALTESE:  (There was no

        14       response. )

        15                      Senator, you say there's 47 acres

        16       there.  How much of that acreage is actually

        17       used by the police department, F.B.I.,

        18       combination law enforcement people, if you know?

        19                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        20       I don't know.  They have advised me in the

        21       material I have before me, which is everything I

        22       have on it, that they need the entire facility

        23       because, in addition to the training facility,











                                                             
8066

         1       it is the only repository in all of New York

         2       City and the surrounding counties where they

         3       take bombs or suspected bombs to detonate them

         4       without danger to the surrounding community.

         5                      SENATOR GALIBER:  So they use the

         6       entire 47 acres; is that correct?

         7                      SENATOR MALTESE:  That is my

         8       understanding.

         9                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Is it used by

        10       the public at all, any part of that 47 acres? Do

        11       you know?

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        13       my understanding, Senator, it is not.  I have

        14       before me a letter dated June 24, 1993, from the

        15       Police Commissioner of the city of New York

        16       indicating the various types of training, and

        17       the average number of use per day and the amount

        18        -- for instance, recruit training, 216 shooters

        19       a day, double barrel shotgun 20, so on and so

        20       forth, and it adds up to 688.  It would seem

        21       that based on that figure and the list -- very

        22       extensive list that I have available and would

        23       be pleased to make available to you -- of awful











                                                             
8067

         1       the law enforcement groups that utilize it, it

         2       would seem that it is well-utilized and

         3       extensively utilized.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, one

         5       other question.  Have you had occasion to hear

         6       about the contamination in that area?

         7                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.  Senator Galiber, I am advised that

         9       as the result of another lawsuit by Sound Watch,

        10       a federal lawsuit, the city is under a mandate

        11       to do a number of things which they have begun

        12       doing. They have also made a representation that

        13       within two years at the most they will

        14       complete.  This is as a result of the lead

        15       contamination and other contamination, I

        16       suppose, from the spent shells and shots and

        17       bombs and what not.  They are taking steps to

        18       put some type of an underground covering, I

        19       believe, of some plastic material utilized for

        20       that purpose so that the further use of lead

        21       does not leach into the soil.  They have

        22       undertaken a cleaning operation and have an

        23       advisory council composed of residents of the











                                                             
8068

         1       community as well as others, which is working

         2       with them to see that the mayor and the city of

         3       New York cleans the area as much as possible.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Okay.  Do you

         5       know how far this plot is, this 47 acres, from

         6       the Orchard Beach area?

         7                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I do not,

         8       Senator.

         9                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Do you know

        10       whether or not any of the contamination that has

        11       not been ascertained in terms of how much, is

        12       there any indication that any of it has gone

        13       into the Orchard Beach area which, my

        14       understanding is, it isn't too far?

        15                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Not in the

        16       material I have, Senator.  There are certain

        17       representations made to the community and to the

        18       community boards, none of them have to do

        19       further, at least in the material I have

        20       available, with that.  They have to do with

        21       putting up of sound barriers, with which they

        22       are proceeding to do to eliminate or at least

        23       decrease the volume of sound reaching the











                                                             
8069

         1       surrounding areas.  It also has to do with

         2       lessening the hours of operation.  They have

         3       taken dramatic steps to decrease the early

         4       morning hours and the late hours, and they are

         5       studying further decreasing the hours of

         6       operation.

         7                      SENATOR GALIBER:  We are all

         8       concerned about the health and welfare of police

         9       officers notwithstanding some of the debates we

        10       have here.  How about the contamination to the

        11       police officer and the law enforcement people

        12       who over a period of years have been using that

        13       area?  I think that's one of the bones of

        14       contention; that it is contaminated.  It should

        15       not be used.  They should clear it up first.

        16       That it is actually a hazard to the health and

        17       welfare of the very same persons that we are

        18       deeply concerned about, and that is with our law

        19       enforcement arm of our state and nation.

        20                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        21       according to the terms of the consent order, the

        22       City is obligated to remediate the lead

        23       contamination in accordance with the











                                                             
8070

         1       decontamination plan developed from the site

         2       assessment.  But there is no -- at least not in

         3       the papers I have available, there is no

         4       indication of steps that are being taken to

         5       protect the police officers who would utilize it

         6       on a daily basis.

         7                      On the other hand, having to some

         8       degree worked with Senator Daly at some of the

         9       lead contamination hearings held by Senator Daly

        10       for the state Senate, it would seem from the

        11       limited knowledge that I have of this that the

        12       danger of this is not significant and that the

        13       steps undertaken by the city of New York would

        14       decrease that danger even further.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  But obviously

        16       it is not in your papers; so, therefore, you

        17       would not know.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  It ain't in

        19       here, Senator.

        20                      SENATOR GALIBER:  On the bill -

        21       never mind the -- in the park -

        22                      One other question.  In the

        23       parkland, you say since World War I.  Was there











                                                             
8071

         1       a lease as far as that parkland is concerned or

         2       is it by executive order or by over a period of

         3       years just by eminent -- use of that property?

         4                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         5       I'm advised that it was utilized, as the Senator

         6       indicated, as parkland since World War I; but,

         7       since 1959, it has been used for these purposes

         8       and that -- I don't have whether it's an

         9       executive order, but the tenor of the papers

        10       that I have seem to indicate that it seems to be

        11       an incremental use over a period of time, and

        12       now it's well established after 34 years, and

        13       the City is looking to continue that use for the

        14       indefinite future.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Okay.  Very

        16       briefly on the bill, Mr. President.  Senator, I

        17       know of your deep concern about the law

        18       enforcement personnel and, as I said, not with

        19       tongue in cheek, that notwithstanding some of

        20       the debates that we have from time to time.  It

        21       has to do with a procedural -- certainly nothing

        22       to do with the fine thin line that we make

        23       reference to, and I respect those persons who











                                                             
8072

         1       are part of our law enforcement agencies.

         2                      Senator, I fear that this

         3       contamination, whether we can say on one day

         4       we're concerned about two persons being in a car

         5       or no, and I'm not being facetious about that,

         6       but the underlying concept being that we are

         7       concerned about the safety and welfare of our

         8       law enforcement personnel, that this

         9       contamination has been going on so very long.

        10       These lawsuits that have been brought, they're

        11       not frivolous lawsuits.  They are brought about

        12       for a reason, and one of the reasons is the

        13       concern about the contamination there and, there

        14       are other than law enforcement people who wander

        15       onto those places.  But, by and large, those

        16       persons who go there periodically are exposed to

        17       this contamination which is a danger to their

        18       health and welfare.

        19                      It would seem to me if that be

        20       the case, and I know that is not in your papers

        21       but certainly, knowing of your concern, there's

        22       that outside possibility, and I would look with

        23       some doubt as to whether or not we should be











                                                             
8073

         1       passing this piece of legislation and putting

         2       our very fine law enforcement personnel in

         3       jeopardy of contamination.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Oppenheimer.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

         7       President, if the sponsor would yield -- no,

         8       it's not a sponsor.  If Senator Maltese would

         9       yield.

        10                      Concerning the safety and

        11       well-being of our police, of course, we're all

        12       concerned about that, but are there not

        13       alternatives available? I understand there is a

        14       $240 million police academy in South Bronx which

        15       is where the shooting for most of the police -

        16       that the shooting range is. That's question

        17       one.

        18                      And question two, if you would

        19       again yield, is I have heard that indoor ranges

        20       are what is currently being used most often by

        21       police; and isn't that a safer usage?

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator











                                                             
8074

         1       Maltese.

         2                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I have before

         3       me a continuation of the document which was

         4       signed by Ray Kelly, the Police Commissioner,

         5       and he makes specific allusion to the points

         6       brought up by Senator Oppenheimer, and I'd like

         7       to read therefrom.

         8                       "An outdoor training facility is

         9       needed to simulate field situations where police

        10       officers are fired upon and return fire at armed

        11       adversaries on the streets of New York City."

        12                      Then he goes, "Over approximately

        13       three-quarters of all police shootings occur in

        14       the street."

        15                      He then refers specifically to

        16       the site in question and indicates, "There are

        17       no other outdoor facilities in New York City or

        18       in the areas surrounding the City that could

        19       accommodate the tens of thousands of police

        20       officers and provide similar training.

        21       Additionally, there are no vacant areas,

        22       according to the City's Division of Real

        23       Property large enough to accommodate a











                                                             
8075

         1       replacement facility."

         2                      With respect to the Senator's

         3       first portion of the question, the reasons for

         4       the desirability of the Rodman's Neck site are

         5       that it is geographically removed from densely

         6       populated areas.  It is not inhabited by

         7       permanent residents. The closest dwellings are

         8       protected by a large body of water.  It is a

         9       peninsula with limited access by only one road.

        10       It is serviced by major highways and bridges

        11       affording quick emergency response to all areas

        12       of the city.  It is bounded on three sides by

        13       water which enhances the security of the site.

        14       It is free of overhead utility lines,

        15       electro-magnetic and radio waves, subways,

        16       underground gas and fuel lines, which would be a

        17       necessity for an area where they detonate bombs

        18       and other similar material.

        19                      In addition, Mr. President, with

        20       reference to the ease of access by major

        21       highways, it would enable police personnel on

        22       the Island to gain easy access to other areas of

        23       the City in the event of an emergency.  It











                                                             
8076

         1       provides a benefit to the people of City Island

         2       and the surrounding area because they have

         3       access to not only the police personnel who

         4       would be readily accessible, but the goings and

         5       comings of the police officers provide an extra

         6       amount of police security to the affected area.

         7                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

         8       Senator.

         9                      On the bill.  I would like to

        10       speak to the environmental considerations of

        11       this bill, and I should note that there are many

        12       organizations opposed.  The Natural Resources

        13       Defense Council is opposed to this bill,

        14       Citizens Union, the Audubon Society, NYPIRG and

        15       others.

        16                      And the reason that they feel

        17       strongly about this, there are a few reasons.

        18       The first is that this is a dedicated parkland

        19       by the New York State Legislature.  It is not

        20       supposed to be used for non-park usage, and it

        21       has been used for non-park usage for the last 34

        22       years by the police department.

        23                      In fact, it's one of the world's











                                                             
8077

         1       largest firing ranges, and it is all done

         2       without legislative approval.  Not only does it

         3       go contrary to our dedication of parkland, but

         4       it is also contrary to our coastal zone

         5       management policies of this state which have as

         6       a foundation the ability for the public to

         7       access waterfront land.

         8                      Furthermore, these wetlands could

         9       be restored and they could provide a natural

        10       filtration for the pollutants which are,

        11       unfortunately, increasingly common, particularly

        12       nitrogen, in the Long Island Sound. There are

        13       alternative sites as far as indoor sites for

        14       range -- for firing ranges.

        15                      And a clean-up is going on

        16       currently. The City has agreed as a result of a

        17       recent federal lawsuit to spend $7.8 million to

        18       remove the lead from the soil.

        19                      This legislation clearly is a

        20       rebuff of the New York Coastal Fishermen's

        21       Association and Sound Watch.  They commenced an

        22       Article 78 against the City. And by passing this

        23       legislation, we are not permitting the courts to











                                                             
8078

         1       make the decision on the Article 78.

         2                      This land is really very special

         3       land. It is almost 50 acres of a peninsula which

         4       is just invaluable, in densely populated areas

         5       in particular.  The parkland belongs to the

         6       people.  We have dedicated it in this

         7       Legislature many years ago for the people.  If

         8       the lawsuit continues, it might very well be

         9       returned to the people.

        10                      I would urge those who care about

        11       the validity of the steps we take in this

        12       chamber -- by dedicating parkland, it should

        13       remain parkland. I would urge everyone to vote

        14       no.

        15                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        17       Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  I will yield to

        19       Senator Velella.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Gold yields to you.

        22                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

        23       I just want to speak on this bill briefly











                                                             
8079

         1       because the particular property is located

         2       within my Senate District, and we have held

         3       public hearings on it, and I can tell you that,

         4       probably, if you took a head count, the

         5       community is split right down the middle.  It's

         6       a tough choice between the preservation of the

         7       parklands and whether or not we ought to be

         8       meeting our obligation to help support the

         9       police department in New York City and provide

        10       adequate training facilities for them.

        11                      After a lot of discussion and

        12       deliberations, I have personally decided to

        13       oppose this bill thinking that the importance of

        14       the parkland is something that is very important

        15       to the community and that we ought to be working

        16       with the police department to find alternatives

        17       to it.

        18                      For that reason, I will be

        19       opposing the bill.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Gold.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  I'm just











                                                             
8080

         1       trying to straighten out some of this. Senator

         2       Velella yield to a question?

         3                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes, Senator.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, is there

         5       a home rule message on this bill?

         6                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes, Senator,

         7       there is a home rule message on it.  It would

         8       not be before the house if there were not a home

         9       rule message, I don't believe.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will Senator yield

        11       to a question?

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Do you know what

        14       the vote was in the City Council on the home

        15       rule?

        16                      SENATOR VELELLA:  I don't know

        17       what the exact number was.  I do know that the

        18       local councilman, Councilman Michael DeMarco,

        19       opposed it on the -- on the vote in the Council.

        20       I don't know what the Council vote was.  There

        21       was some opposed; some for it.

        22                      As I said, the community is

        23       pretty much split.  Assemblyman Kaufman and I











                                                             
8081

         1       come down on different sides of the issue.  The

         2       local City Councilman is against it, and I have

         3       decided that I will oppose the bill.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         5                      Will Senator Maltese yield to a

         6       question? Senator, just by way of information, I

         7       didn't have a chance to speak to Commissioner

         8       Kelly today, but you did.  Did you happen to ask

         9       him about his opinion on one or two men in

        10       police cars?

        11                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        12       I didn't ask his opinion on that particular

        13       question.  As I said the other evening,

        14       sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong.

        15       I think that Commissioner Kelly from time to

        16       time, probably in the vast preponderance of

        17       instances, is absolutely on the mark and

        18       correct.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  Will

        20       you yield to -- will the gentleman yield to one

        21       more question?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

        23       you yield again?











                                                             
8082

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Maltese, I

         3       know the position you took the other day on the

         4       Flushing Meadow parkland and now I see this

         5       parkland, and the only question I have is there

         6       any parkland in the city of New York that you

         7       think we should use as parkland?

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         9       I realize that Senator Gold, who is somewhat

        10       bothered by a lack of consistency on the

        11       question of micromanagement is being somewhat

        12       facetious in his question.  Of course, I take

        13       second place to no one in the protection of

        14       parkland, and it was for that reason and the -

        15       referring to the prior bill on Flushing

        16       Meadows-Corona Park -- that I supported that

        17       bill because the vast majority of the time it

        18       would be parkland, would eventually revert as

        19       parkland.

        20                      In this particular instance, we

        21       have a long time use. And similar to my position

        22       in the two-man or one-man police cars, I put the

        23       security of our constituents and the people of











                                                             
8083

         1       our city prior to a temporary alternative use of

         2       parkland.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

         4       is a home rule message here.

         5                      Wait a minute.  Senator

         6       Oppenheimer.

         7                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I thought

         8       that Senator Maltese would be comforted by the

         9       knowledge of that statement that consistency is

        10       the hob-goblin of small minds.

        11                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        12       that's why from time to time I'm not consistent.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

        14       is a home rule message here at the desk.

        15                      Read the last section.

        16                      Senator Padavan.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I rise to

        18       explain my vote.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Okay.

        20       Let's -- read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call











                                                             
8084

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         4       there are times when consistency can be a

         5       virtue, Senator Oppenheimer.  I don't know

         6       whether or not this proposal makes sense or

         7       doesn't. Senator Maltese gave us all the reasons

         8       it should.  Others gave us the reasons it should

         9       not.  Senator Maltese admittedly said he had

        10       never been to this park; nevertheless, he had a

        11       lot of information to share with us.

        12                      As chairman of the Cities

        13       Committee, it has been my practice without

        14       exception to defer to the Senator in whose

        15       district a given parcel of parkland existed, to

        16       rely upon that individual's personal judgment on

        17       the basic assumption that he or she would know

        18       better than anyone else whether the alienation

        19       of that parkland is desirable or not desirable,

        20       and we have heard from the Senator who

        21       represents this particular parkland.

        22                      And consistency in this case

        23       being a virtue in my mind, I therefore vote no.











                                                             
8085

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Leichter to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Thank

         5       you, Mr. President.  Obviously, ideally,

         6       parkland should not be used for a gun practice

         7       range; however, this practice has existed for

         8       many years; and the fact of the matter is I'm

         9       advised by the city of New York that at this

        10       time they have no other place, no other

        11       facility.  So if you take away this facility,

        12       where are police officers going to do the

        13       practice that they need to do? And I must say I

        14       find it somewhat ironic that some of the

        15       legislators who were most in support of giving

        16       police officers 9 mm. guns and who said, "But

        17       they will receive training" -- well, where are

        18       they going to receive the training? Where are

        19       they going to practice with those guns? I hope

        20       that bill never becomes law, but they certainly

        21       need to also practice with their .38.

        22                      So the City, as I understand it,

        23       has a commitment to try to get out of that park











                                                             
8086

         1       as quickly as it can, and it should, but in the

         2       meantime, it would be foolhardy and it would,

         3       unquestionably, significantly hurt law

         4       enforcement efforts in New York if we took that

         5       site away from them.

         6                      I guess the conflict that we have

         7       here is one that we so often have in New York

         8       City that every piece of land you can think of

         9       has so many different uses for.  We had that

        10       conflict in a sense when we debated the tennis

        11       center, raised the same issue.  We didn't know

        12       if you didn't put it there, really, where could

        13       you put it? Similarly, you must have this

        14       available at the present time for the city of

        15       New York.  As much as I hate to see parkland

        16       used in this fashion, I think I, and frankly

        17       none of us, have any alternative but to support

        18       this bill.

        19                      I vote in the affirmative, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      (Whereupon, Lt. Governor Lundine

        22       was in the chair. )

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter











                                                             
8087

         1       votes yes.

         2                      Senator Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, just to explain my vote.

         5                      As the session goes on, I find

         6       myself in more and more unusual positions.  I

         7       end up disagreeing with my colleague from

         8       Manhattan because I think, consistent with the

         9       chairman of the Cities Committee, that the

        10       critical issue here is the exercise of the power

        11       of this body to approve the alienation or

        12       acceptance or continuation of property.

        13                      And I think in that regard that

        14       Senator Velella's opposition is good enough for

        15       me.  I would suggest that in this particular

        16       case for the police department to simply take

        17       this land and use it for 30 years without having

        18       the approvals necessary to do that from this

        19       body doesn't suggest that they've got a right to

        20       continue to do it.  And that, in and of itself,

        21       is not enough in my judgment to overcome the

        22       objections of the Senator in whose district this

        23       property is located.











                                                             
8088

         1                      So consistent with my respect for

         2       other members in this house and their

         3       objections, I will be voting with Senator

         4       Velella and Senator Padavan and voting against

         5       this.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Dollinger

         7       votes no.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         9       the negative on Calendar Number 1638 are

        10       Senators Dollinger, Galiber, Halperin, Jones,

        11       Onorato, Oppenheimer, Padavan, Pataki, Solomon

        12       and Velella, also Senator Gold, also Senator

        13       Levy.  Ayes 41, nays 12.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        15       passed.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        17       can we call up Calendar 1656, please.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.  The chair

        19       will state that this is not on Supplemental

        20       Calendar 1.  However, it is on every member's

        21       desk. Secretary will read 1656.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1656, by the Senate Committee on rules, Senate











                                                             
8089

         1       Bill Number 6194, an act to amend Chapter 60 of

         2       the Laws of 1993, amending the Public

         3       Authorities Law.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         5       I move that we accept the message of necessity

         6       which is at the desk.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion all

         8       those in favor, say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Those opposed, nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The motion is agreed to.  The

        13       message is accepted.

        14                      Read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      SENATOR MEGA:  Mr. President, I

        20       would like to abstain from voting.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        22       objection, Senator Mega's request to abstain

        23       from voting is approved.











                                                             
8090

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  I would like to

         4       explain my vote.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold is

         6       recognized to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

         8       this is a very good bill. I vote yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                      Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        14       I would like to place a sponsor star on Calendar

        15       1481, Senate Print 6065A.

        16                      I guess we'll stand at ease for a

        17       moment.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

        19       stand at ease.

        20                      Senator Leichter.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        22       President.  Senator, is there a reason given for

        23       these continual halts in our proceedings at a











                                                             
8091

         1       time when we have been led to believe we would

         2       actually be moving toward adjournment?

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  There are a

         4       number of reasons and I'll try to repeat some of

         5       them.  There are a number of messages we're

         6       waiting for from the Governor.  There are

         7       negotiations going on relative to some of the

         8       legislation.  I'm doing my best, and if you will

         9       bear with us, maybe we'll get this done.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, the

        11       one thing I'm sure of is that you're doing your

        12       best, and you really have been most courteous,

        13       and I appreciate that.

        14                      I have a suggestion to make.  I

        15       don't know if anybody will accept it, but I hope

        16       that they will.  We've had three people who have

        17       worked, and I'm sure they have worked hard -

        18       the Speaker and the Majority Leader and the

        19       Governor -- but they haven't been able to do the

        20       job.

        21                      And I know we believe in the

        22       strong -- strong leader system.  Maybe this

        23       shows that the strong leader system isn't all











                                                             
8092

         1       it's cracked up to be, or maybe somebody's going

         2       to say, Well, we have a strong, inept leader

         3       system.  But I've got an idea.  Why don't we -

         4       you know, they have been unable to do the job.

         5       Why don't we get three people who have been

         6       waiting in the wings who I'm sure ought to get a

         7       crack at this.  Why don't we ask Lundine,

         8       Ohrenstein, and Rappleyea to take over, and

         9       let's see how they do.  Maybe they will do a

        10       little better.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Everybody have

        12       a good laugh.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate is at

        14       ease.

        15                      (Whereupon, the President banged

        16       the gavel. )

        17                      (Laughter)

        18                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  I was curious,

        19       Mr. President, if that was a motion on the

        20       floor.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  If it is, it is

        22       out of order.

        23                      (Why upon, at 4:21 p.m., the











                                                             
8093

         1       Senate was at ease. )

         2                      (Whereupon, the Senate

         3       reconvened. )

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Will you call

         7       up Calendar 1631.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

         9       will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1631, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 6170,

        12       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        14                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, Senator

        15       Gold.  As you probably recall, earlier this year

        16       and last year, we had a version of this bill

        17       before this house.  This is now an agreed upon

        18       bill among the Senate, the Governor and the

        19       Assembly.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is Senator

        21       Stachowski here?

        22                      SENATOR LEVY:  Let me say -- I

        23       know Senator Stachowski is the ranking member of











                                                             
8094

         1       the Labor Committee but, Senator, this bill was

         2       negotiated by the employee representatives

         3       representing the bus drivers that come within

         4       the subject matter of this bill, and I was

         5       advised by the Governor's staff that they have

         6       signed off and agreed to this bill.

         7                      Now, the bill is an outgrowth -

         8       an outgrowth of a tragic accident that took

         9       place on April the 11th, 1992, when a bus ran

        10       off the road outside of Scaren Lake and two East

        11       Meadow School District students in a school

        12       district represented by Senator Hannon and

        13       myself were killed in that accident and 27

        14       students were seriously injured.

        15                      The bus driver who was driving

        16       that bus should not have been behind the wheel

        17       of a bus let alone any other type of vehicle.

        18       He had in the 21 months prior to the accident

        19       eight other accidents, five were his fault.  He

        20       had two traffic convictions and he had other

        21       traffic violations pending.

        22                      Clearly, clearly, there was a

        23       defect in our laws that had to be remedied.  So











                                                             
8095

         1       that is comprehensive tightening of every phase

         2       of 19-A, which regulated bus drivers.

         3                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         4       President.  Would Senator Levy yield to just one

         5       question?

         6                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.

         7                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I heard you

         8       talk about that bus people have all signed off

         9       and it's an agreed-upon bill, but the problem we

        10       have is that we still have a memo from the CSEA

        11       that says they are strongly opposed to this

        12       legislation.

        13                      SENATOR LEVY:  Are they opposed

        14       to this bill, or are they opposed to the prior

        15       piece of legislation?

        16                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  It's still

        17       this piece, 6170.

        18                      SENATOR LEVY:  I can only tell

        19       you that we were advised by the Governor's

        20       people who did the negotiation with the employee

        21       representatives.  I do not know.

        22                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Do you have

        23       this memo?











                                                             
8096

         1                      SENATOR LEVY:  We have not seen

         2       it. But, Senator, regardless of what is in that

         3       memo, you know, we have to proceed with this

         4       bill because this is an important piece of

         5       legislation to deal with an omission in the law,

         6       tightening of the law.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

        10       have the highest regard for CSEA and certainly

        11       unlimited regard for Senator Stachowski and his

        12       expertise in this field, but I have read this

        13       memorandum in opposition, and I have a lot of

        14       trouble with it.  I really do.

        15                      They say while they support the

        16       section of the legislation requiring school bus

        17       seat belt safety studies, it should not come at

        18       the expense of a bus driver's dignity and

        19       professionalism.  Strict re-examination

        20       disqualification procedures for school bus

        21       drivers already exist in New York State.

        22                      Now, what they refer to in the

        23       first paragraph -











                                                             
8097

         1                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator, can I

         2       help you?

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.  This

         4       legislation further requires the

         5       disqualification of bus drivers upon the

         6       conviction of five or more driving violations of

         7       any kind within a three-year period.

         8                      Mr. President, maybe I'm out of

         9       whack, but if it says five convictions and

        10       somebody gets convicted five times in a

        11       three-year period, I don't know why that isn't a

        12       proper ground.

        13                      Senator Levy, you want to help

        14       me? Go ahead.

        15                      SENATOR LEVY:  First of all, that

        16       memorandum relates to, I believe, an Assembly

        17       bill and not even a Senate bill.  It is probably

        18       an old memorandum.  There is nothing whatsoever

        19       in this legislation about seat belts, and the

        20       point disqualifications in current law have not

        21       been changed.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator, I

        23       just wanted you to know -- and I'm glad you











                                                             
8098

         1       stood up -- that's the memo.  I have the memo.

         2       It's on Senator Levy's bill 6170.  And what I'm

         3       saying to you, Senator, is I'm going to support

         4       your bill.  I'm trying to tell you that.

         5       Senator Tully would have explained that to you

         6       if you gave him a chance, because I don't think

         7       their memo is accurate or deserves consideration

         8       in this case, while I happen to very much

         9       respect CSEA and certainly Senator Stachowski.

        10       I'm now finished because I know you're chomping

        11       at the by the to get at me.

        12                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        15       Stachowski.

        16                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I would like

        17       to thank Senator Levy for his explanation and

        18       especially for clearing up the problem with this

        19       memo.  I find it interesting because we just did

        20       another bill where we were looking for a CSEA

        21       memo.  When we did a bill a week ago, we

        22       couldn't get ahold of the CSEA person so we had

        23       contacted all the unions individually, and then











                                                             
8099

         1       the person that did the contacting was

         2       reprimanded by the CSEA representative for

         3       calling all these unions individually even

         4       though this particular person was on vacation.

         5       And then we were looking for some information

         6       from their position on a bill that we dealt with

         7       yesterday, and we couldn't get a return phone

         8       call.  So it's not surprising to me that this

         9       memo that had alerted us and got me to ask you

        10       that question doesn't have anything to do with

        11       your bill and that the fact that you say that

        12       everybody that is dealt with in this legislation

        13       and has signed off on it is more than enough for

        14       me, and I encourage everyone to support this

        15       bill.

        16                      SENATOR LEVY:  Thank you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.











                                                             
8100

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         4       can we call up Calendar 1333, please.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         6       read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1333, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number

         9       4601B, an act to amend the General Municipal

        10       Law.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        12       I move we accept the message of necessity which

        13       I understand is at the desk.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Message is at the

        15       desk.  On the motion, all those in favor say

        16       aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        21       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        22                      Read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 42.  This











                                                             
8101

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         8       President, is that 1633 or 1333?

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  1333.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is this the -- my

        11       apologies.  I'm recorded in the affirmative.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        13       can we call up Calendar 1517.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        15       read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1517, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        18       Assembly Bill Number 8248A, an act to amend the

        19       Public Authorities Law.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        21       section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8102

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays

         4       one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         8       can we take up the non-controversial calendar on

         9       Supplemental Calendar Number 1.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        11       read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        13       Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1639.

        14       Senator Larkin moves to discharge the Committee

        15       on rules from Assembly Bill Number 6629B, and

        16       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        17       1639.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        19       ordered.

        20                      Read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.











                                                             
8103

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         4       passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1640. Senator Marchi moves to discharge the

         7       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         8       5754C and substitute it for the identical Third

         9       Reading 1640.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        12       aside.  Substitution is ordered.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1641.  Senator Farley moves to discharge the

        15       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        16       8367A and substitute it for the identical Third

        17       Reading 1641.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        19       ordered.

        20                      Read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This\

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.











                                                             
8104

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         4       passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1642, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

         7       5178B, an act restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to

         8       Tier II.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a home

        10       rule message at the desk.

        11                      Read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays 2,

        17       Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the

        18       negative.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        20       passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1643. Senator Cook moves to discharge the

        23       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number











                                                             
8105

         1       8526 and substitute it for the identical Third

         2       Reading 1643.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         4       ordered.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Lay it aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  The bill is laid

         7       aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1644, Senator Velella moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        11       8223A and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading 1644.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        14       ordered.

        15                      Read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        22       passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8106

         1       1645, Senator Velella moves to discharge the

         2       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         3       4139A and substitute it for the identical Third

         4       Reading 1645.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         6       ordered.

         7                      Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        14       passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1646, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        17       6136, an act to amend the Social Services Law.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8107

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1647, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number

         6       6169, an act to amend the Executive Law.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         8       section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        15       passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1648, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        18       Bill Number 6175, amends Chapter 883 of the

        19       Laws of 1980, amending the Banking Law

        20       generally.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        22       section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
8108

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  The bill is

         4       laid aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1649. Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the

         7       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         8       8514a and substitute it for the identical Third

         9       Reading 1649.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        11       ordered.

        12                      Read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        17       aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1650.  Senator Larkin moves to discharge the

        20       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        21       8836 and substitute it for the identical Third

        22       Reading 1650.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution











                                                             
8109

         1       ordered.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         3       I move that we accept the message of necessity

         4       which I believe is at the desk.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

         6       all those in favor say aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed nay.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        11       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        13       section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        19       aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1651.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        23       high.  It will be laid aside.











                                                             
8110

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1652. Senator Stafford moves to discharge the

         3       Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number

         4       8851 and substitute it for the identical Third

         5       Reading 1652.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         7       ordered.  The bill is high.  It will be laid

         8       aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1653.  Senator Stafford moves to discharge the

        11       Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number

        12       8852 and substitute it for the identical Third

        13       Reading 1653.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The substitution

        15       is ordered.  The bill is high.  It will be laid

        16       aside.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  May I just

        20       ask a question, sir? If we're making a

        21       substitution and the bill is high, I would

        22       assume that -- what?

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Assembly bill











                                                             
8111

         1       is still high in our house.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, but it

         3       couldn't pass the Assembly without a message.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Assembly had

         5       a message.  It was passed in the Assembly

         6       yesterday.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  Well, this

         8       is what's confusing me.  I must be missing

         9       something.  The Assembly bill had to pass either

        10       by being on the members' desks for three days or

        11       having a message.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  It had a

        13       message.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Why can't we use

        15       that message? No, I'm missing something, and I

        16       don't dispute that I'm probably wrong, but I'm

        17       just trying to have it explained to me.  If they

        18       had a message and passed it, why can't we use

        19       their message?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Each house has to

        21       have its own message for a reason unknown to

        22       me.  We have not received a message in the

        23       Senate.











                                                             
8112

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  I have in front of

         4       me a message.  It's not the particular one here,

         5       but it says, "To the Legislature". I assume that

         6       when the Governor signs a message on a bill,

         7       it's my recollection that they all say, "To the

         8       Legislature," not the Assembly or the Senate.

         9                      Well, Mr. President.  I hear

        10       what's going on.  I can't -

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold,

        12       look after "To the Legislature" and where it

        13       says, "I do hereby certify to the necessity of

        14       an immediate vote."  If -- if -- I'm advised

        15       that if at that point it says Senate Bill Number

        16       so and so and Assembly Bill Number so and so,

        17       then the same message is used in both houses.

        18       If the Governor just said Assembly bill so and

        19       so, we can not use it in the Senate.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Mr.

        21       President, if I may.  Since the Assembly bill is

        22       the one we're voting on and not the Senate bill,

        23       then it seems to me we only need a message on











                                                             
8113

         1       the Assembly bill, and I can not overrule what

         2       the Majority wants to do and what you want to

         3       do, but it's perfectly clear, Mr. President,

         4       that if the Assembly bill is before us and that

         5       is the one we're going to vote on, that if the

         6       message indicates that bill can be voted on,

         7       then I believe there is a clear constitutional

         8       right to do it.

         9                      Now, you may not want to do it

        10       but -- I'm sorry, but unless somebody tells me

        11       different, I'm taking my own legal advice on

        12       this.  You are saying we haven't received a

        13       message today.  The message exists. I don't care

        14       whether it came in yesterday or today.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  All right.  This

        16       may help to resolve this issue.  We have just

        17       received the Governor's message.

        18                      (Laughter)

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm glad I could

        20       be of help, Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  On 1653, 1654 and

        22       1652.  So maybe you won't put me in the

        23       difficult position of having to rule on your











                                                             
8114

         1       constitutional point.

         2                      Senator Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we go back

         4       to -

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  1652?

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  -- those we now

         7       have messages for.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes, okay.  It's

         9       been substituted, Calendar Number 1652.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        11       I move we accept the message we now have.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

        13       all those in favor say aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Those opposed, nay.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        18       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        19                      Read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8115

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays 2,

         2       Senators Dollinger and Jones recorded in the

         3       negative.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Wright.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  If I might just request a point of

        10       personal privilege for a moment.  I would like

        11       to introduce and recognize my distinguished

        12       predecessor, Congressman John McHugh, who served

        13       in this house for eight years representing the

        14       North Country, and he is visiting us today on,

        15       obviously, what will now be the last day of

        16       session now that he has returned. So I would

        17       like to recognize my predecessor and your

        18       distinguished colleague.  He's right over here.

        19                      (Applause)

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  If he would have

        21       risen, I would have recognized him.  At least if

        22       he would have waited until later in the evening

        23       and then stood up, I would have recognized him.











                                                             
8116

         1                      Senator Solomon.

         2                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes.  Mr.

         3       President, I would like unanimous consent to be

         4       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         5       1652.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         7       objection, so ordered.  Now, let's do 1653.  All

         8       right?

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1653, substituted earlier, by the Assembly

        11       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8852,

        12       Local Finance Law.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        14       I move we accept the message which is at the

        15       desk.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

        17       All those in favor, say aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed, nay.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        22       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        23                      Read the last section.











                                                             
8117

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.  Nays 5,

         6       Senators Dollinger, Jones, Libous, Padavan and

         7       Pataki recorded in the negative.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Pataki.

        12                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Could I get

        13       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        14       on Calendar 1652?

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        16       objection, so ordered.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  May I have

        20       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        21       on Calendar 1652?

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        23       objection, so ordered.











                                                             
8118

         1                      Senator Saland.

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  May I have

         3       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         4       on Calendar 1652, as well?

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         6       objection, it is so ordered.

         7                      1654.  Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1654. Senator Marino moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        11       8853 and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading 1654.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

        14       message.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

        16       accept the message.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

        18       All those in favor, say aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        23       agreed to.  The message is accepted.











                                                             
8119

         1                      Read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays 2,

         7       Senators Dollinger and Jones recorded in the

         8       negative.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1655.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill will be

        14       laid aside.  It's high.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1657, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        17       Assembly Bill Number 8588, Education Law, in

        18       relation to pre-school children with

        19       disabilities.

        20                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Explanation.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Lay the bill

        22       aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8120

         1       1658, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         2       Assembly Bill Number 8732, Education Law, in

         3       relation to conforming state statutes with

         4       federal statutes.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Can we have an

         6       explanation?

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         9       aside.  That completes action on the non

        10       controversial Supplemental Calendar Number 1.

        11                      (Whereupon, at 5:01 p.m., the

        12       Senate was at ease. )

        13                      (Whereupon, the Senate

        14       reconvened. )

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        16       can we take up the controversial calendar on

        17       Supplemental Calendar 1.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        21       Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1640,

        22       substituted earlier, by member of the Assembly

        23       Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 5754C, an act to











                                                             
8121

         1       amend the Public Health Law, in relation to

         2       honoring of non-hospital orders.

         3                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

         4       this bill extends the provisions that govern the

         5       do not resuscitate contracts, which is universal

         6       throughout the state but not available to

         7       inmates of state correctional facilities.  This

         8       would extend the DNR provisions to the people

         9       who are in state correctional facilities.  It

        10       has no other effect.

        11                      If you are against DNR, then I

        12       assume you have to be against this bill.  But if

        13       you have supported DNR in the past, why they

        14       should be excluded when the whole gamut of our

        15       society is covered, it would seem to be rational

        16       to extend it also to them.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.











                                                             
8122

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1643, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

         5       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8526,

         6       an act to amend the Education Law.

         7                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Explanation is

         9       requested.

        10                      Senator Cook.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay that aside

        12       temporarily.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  We will lay that

        14       aside temporarily.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1648.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        19       aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1649, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        22       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8514A,

        23       Real Property Tax Law.











                                                             
8123

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         2       section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1650, substituted earlier today -

        12                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Explanation is

        14       requested.  Senator Larkin.

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Senator, this is

        16       a bill to ease some of the burdens on local

        17       government.  It's in six areas.  It's a first

        18       step to what we think will be a progression in

        19       allowing local governments with a means to cut

        20       costs and increase their administrative

        21       ability.  There are six areas that have been

        22       identified in this as areas that local

        23       governments had said that they had a direct











                                                             
8124

         1       interest in it, and this is a bill that we had

         2       agreement on between both houses and the

         3       Governor's office.

         4                      SENATOR JONES:  Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Jones.

         6                      SENATOR JONES:  Will the sponsor

         7       yield to a question, please?

         8                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      SENATOR JONES:  Through you, Mr.

        11       President.  I just want to clarify for myself

        12       that I'm reading this correctly.  There's

        13       references in here to Navigation Law.  We've had

        14       a major problem with that in our area this year

        15       in regards to setting speed limits in the bay.

        16       It sounds like what I'm reading here that this

        17       would now give the supervisors more leeway in

        18       doing those things without reverting back to the

        19       state.  Am I correct?

        20                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Exactly.

        21                      SENATOR JONES:  Okay.  Thank you,

        22       sir.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last











                                                             
8125

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         8       passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1657, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        11       Assembly Bill Number 8588, Education Law, in

        12       relation to pre-school children with

        13       disabilities.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        16       aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       I think we've come to that point where I'm going

        20       to ask you to stand at ease.  Bear with us.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

        22       stand at ease.

        23                      (Whereupon, at 5:06 p.m., Senate











                                                             
8126

         1       was at ease. )

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.  Could I have unanimous consent to be

         6       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1642.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         8       objection, so ordered.

         9                      (Whereupon, at 5:08 p.m., Senate

        10       was at ease. )

        11                      (Whereupon, at 5:34 p.m., the

        12       Senate reconvened. )

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  May we resume

        16       with Calendar 1643.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        18       read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1643, on Supplemental Calendar Number 1,

        21       substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        22       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8526,

        23       an act to amend the Education Law.











                                                             
8127

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold on one

         2       second. Just a minute.

         3                      (Whereupon, there was a pause in

         4       the proceedings. )

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         7       section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        14       passed.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  1651, Mr.

        16       President.  And may we accept the message.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion to

        18       accept the message, all those in favor say aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        23       agreed to.  The message is accepted.











                                                             
8128

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1651, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         3       Bill Number 6188, an act to amend the Education

         4       Law.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         6       section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        13       passed.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  1657.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1657, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        17       Assembly Bill Number 65888, Education Law, in

        18       relation to pre-school children with

        19       disabilities.

        20                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Explanation.

        21                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        22       This bill conforms New York State law to the

        23       federal requirements on the placement of











                                                             
8129

         1       pre-school children in special education.  We

         2       have to do this.  It means about $150 million in

         3       federal money to the state, and so as long as we

         4       are in not conformity with the federal law, we

         5       will not be able to collect that money.

         6                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. President.

         7       Would Senator Cook yield to just one question?

         8                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Senator, does

        10       this change the role of the school board?

        11                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, the

        12       school board by federal regulation cannot, may

        13       not overrule a decision by the committee, and

        14       that is essentially what we have to do is to

        15       make it so that the decision is made by the

        16       committee on handicapped, and it cannot be

        17       overridden by the school board.

        18                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. President,

        19       on the bill.

        20                      Mr. President, I certainly

        21       appreciate Senator Cook's explanation, and as a

        22       matter of background, I would like to indicate

        23       that many years ago in my former life here in











                                                             
8130

         1       the Legislature as a staff member, I had a rare

         2       and privileged opportunity to have worked on the

         3       development in 1975 of Chapter 853, which

         4       brought New York State from the dark ages into

         5       an age if renaissance in terms of providing

         6       children of school age with an appropriate and

         7       free education as all other children who did not

         8       have handicapping conditions.

         9                      This legislation was developed in

        10       concert with Federal Law 94-142 at the time and

        11       also with a blueprint that had been established

        12       prior to federal law by the Board of Regents in

        13       a report that really set into motion how the

        14       state of New York would provide services for

        15       handicapped youngsters.

        16                      In the development of that

        17       legislation, the Chapter that resulted in the

        18       Laws of 1975 Chapter 853, a process was

        19       developed that, one, provided for a Committee on

        20       the handicapped and the participation of

        21       specific individuals, allowed for the

        22       participation of parents of handicapped

        23       children, and then a process well beyond the











                                                             
8131

         1       role of the committee that provided for a role

         2       for the school board, and the importance of that

         3       role was that the school board is the governing

         4       body of the school district and ultimately

         5       passes on a whole series of things and many

         6       times we don't pay enough attention for the

         7       statutory role and the deep roots that both

         8       regulation and law and custom places with the

         9       school board in making certain decisions and, of

        10       course, not only educational decisions in the

        11       district as to class size and the breadth and

        12       scope of education beyond what we mandate by

        13       statute or the rules and regulations by the

        14       Board of Regents or the Commissioner, and so the

        15       school board has a direct role.

        16                      What evolved over the years was

        17       that the school board actually became an

        18       advocate for the child, the handicapped child,

        19       because there is a political overlay, in that

        20       school board members are elected and they live

        21       in a community and they are aware of the needs

        22       of their neighbors and the children of their

        23       neighbors, and so the school board members have











                                                             
8132

         1       actually become an advocate in ensuring that

         2       children with handicapping conditions not only

         3       received a fee and appropriate education but all

         4       of the related services and all of the things

         5       that they needed to function.

         6                      My problem, Senator Cook, is that

         7       the state of New York has not gone to the

         8       Secretary of Education and made a case for our

         9       law, a law that has been a beacon in this nation

        10       in providing for individuals and students with

        11       handicapping conditions, and my problem is that

        12       our commissioner, our commissioner, has not been

        13       strong enough and an advocate for what we are

        14       doing in this state but merely has rolled over

        15       and said, "Well, I guess maybe our federal

        16       Department of Education may have a point."

        17                      It has been in writing that our

        18       School Boards Association will bring litigation

        19       should this become law, and I hope they do if

        20       this does reach the Governor's desk and he does

        21       sign it, because I believe that we in this state

        22       have been a leader in providing for the needs of

        23       the handicapped, and we should continue to











                                                             
8133

         1       control our destiny.  It is the states that are

         2       in a preeminent position to provide for the

         3       education of its students. It is not a federal

         4       mandate, and we are giving away and abrogating

         5       our duty and our responsibility by rolling over

         6       to the federal government and, in my judgment,

         7       to pass legislation such as this.

         8                      This legislation is for

         9       pre-school youngsters, as Senator Cook had

        10       indicated, but what it does is it begins to set

        11       a precedent as to what is the role of the school

        12       board in advocating for the handicapped and for

        13       the taxpayer, who must pay for these services;

        14       and certainly they are probably in the best

        15       position in balancing the needs of the taxpayers

        16       and continuing to advocate for our children who

        17       happen to have handicapping conditions.

        18                      Mr. President, I will be voting

        19       in the negative on this legislation and

        20       certainly my remarks, in part, as many will

        21       know, is to set for the record and hope that the

        22       School Boards Association would bring a lawsuit

        23       to overturn this legislation should the Governor











                                                             
8134

         1       sign it.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

         3                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

         4       there is nothing that Senator LaValle said with

         5       which I would disagree.  In fact, certainly his

         6       foresight and that of others who developed New

         7       York State law, indeed they were the pioneers

         8       and indeed they have developed a system which I

         9       think as well is unparalleled in the nation.

        10                      Unfortunately, somewhere along

        11       the way, the federal government has begun to

        12       involve itself more and more into areas of

        13       responsibility which once were the province of

        14       the states.  I'm not altogether sure it is a

        15       totally healthy situation.  But the fact of the

        16       matter is that, if we are prepared to accept the

        17       largesse of the federal government and take $150

        18       million from them as part of their distribution

        19       of money for this purpose, we then have to

        20       conform to the standards that they have set

        21       forth.

        22                      I personally agree that I think

        23       taking the board of education out of this system











                                                             
8135

         1       is a terrible idea, but I also cannot in good

         2       conscience say that we should give up that $150

         3       million and that we somewhere could come up with

         4       that kind of money to conform with the law if we

         5       don't conform with the federal regulations.

         6                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. President,

         7       would Senator Cook yield to just one question?

         8                      Senator, do you know whether our

         9       commissioner has asked the Secretary of

        10       Education whether our law or regulation is

        11       inconsistent with federal statute?

        12                      SENATOR COOK:  Senator, you can

        13       ask and you can ask.  I think that an inquiry

        14       has been made, but I would agree with you that I

        15       don't think it has been terribly strongly made,

        16       and I accept your point.

        17                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Thank you very

        18       much, Senator.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        20       section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.











                                                             
8136

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54, nays

         3       one, Senator LaValle recorded in the negative.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  1658.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        10       Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        12       President, I was outside the chamber.  May I

        13       have unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        14       negative on 1643, Senate Bill 5795.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        16       objection, it's so ordered.

        17                      1658.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1658, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        20       Assembly Bill Number 8732, Education Law.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        22       section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
8137

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I believe you

        10       have a privileged resolution submitted by

        11       Senator Stafford at the desk. Could it be read?

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        13       read the title.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        15       resolution, by Senator Stafford, congratulating

        16       Mr. and Mrs. Clyde Cook upon the occasion of

        17       their 50th Wedding Anniversary.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the

        19       resolution. All those in favor say aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye.")

        21                      Those opposed, nay.

        22                      (There was no response. )

        23                      The ayes have it.  The resolution











                                                             
8138

         1       is adopted.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         3       we will now stand at ease for a period of time

         4       hopefully.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will stand

         6       at ease.

         7                      (Whereupon, at 5:51 p.m., Senate

         8       was at ease. )

         9                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Can I have

        10       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        11       on Calendar Number 1643.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        13       objection, so ordered.

        14                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Pataki.

        16                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Could I have

        17       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        18       on Calendar 1654, please.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        20       objection, so ordered.

        21                      Senator Kuhl.

        22                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.  On the regular calendar, page 6,











                                                             
8139

         1       Calendar Number 396, would you place a sponsor

         2       star on that bill, please.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         4       starred.

         5                      SENATOR KUHL:  That is Senate

         6       Print 3564.

         7                      (Whereupon, at 5:12 p.m., Senate

         8       was at ease.)

         9                      (Whereupon, at 6:24 p.m., Senate

        10       reconvened with Senator Farley in the chair.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senate

        12       will come to order.

        13                      I have a motion, Senator Padavan.

        14       Can we do that?

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        17       Tully.

        18                      SENATOR TULLY:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  On behalf of Senator Levy, I wish to

        20       call up his bill, Print Number 4802 recalled

        21       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        23       Secretary will read Senator Levy's bill.











                                                             
8140

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senate Bill

         2       Number 4802, by Senator Levy, an act to amend

         3       the Public Authorities Law.

         4                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         5       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         6       bill was passed.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        10       reconsideration. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       bill is before the house.

        14                      Senator Tully.

        15                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        16       now offer the following amendments.

        17                      Mr. President.

        18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes.

        19                      SENATOR TULLY:  On behalf of

        20       Senator Levy, I wish to call up his bill, Print

        21       Number 4887B, recalled from the Assembly which

        22       is now at the desk.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:











                                                             
8141

         1       Secretary will read that.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Levy,

         3       Senate bill Number 4887B, an act to amend the

         4       Public authorities Law.

         5                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         6       now move to reconsider the vote by which the

         7       bill was passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        11       reconsideration. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        14       bill is before the house.

        15                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.  I

        16       now offer the following amendments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        18       Amendments are received.

        19                      Senator Padavan, what is your

        20       pleasure?

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  My pleasure is

        22       just to wait just one second while the chairman

        23       arrives.











                                                             
8142

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Padavan.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Calendar 1633.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1633.

         6       The Secretary will read it.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Accept the

         8       message of necessity, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

        10       those in favor of accepting the message of

        11       necessity, say aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Those opposed, nay.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      The message is accepted.

        16                      Secretary will read the bill.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1633, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Bill Number

        19       8834, amends Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President.











                                                             
8143

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Senator.

         3                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Will Senator

         4       Spano yield for a couple of questions?

         5                      SENATOR SPANO:  Yes.

         6                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Senator Spano,

         7       as you know, this bill has been held up now for

         8       about a day over the concerns you and I and

         9       Senator Saland and others have on the language

        10       on page 44 concerning the closing of the Harlem

        11       Valley Psychiatric Center.

        12                      As you know, a lawsuit has been

        13       brought by the town of Dover and some of the

        14       public employee unions and the county of

        15       Dutchess against the state because of the

        16       closing of the Harlem Valley facility.

        17                      Can you tell me what assurances

        18       you have gotten concerning the possible closure

        19       of the facility on November 1st?

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President and

        21       Senator Pataki, the language on page 44 of this

        22       bill was somewhat vague in terms of how it

        23       treated the issue of Harlem Valley and the











                                                             
8144

         1       closure of that psychiatric center and, as you

         2       are aware as well, Senator Saland, we worked

         3       real hard to make sure that Chapter 322 of the

         4       Laws of 1992 which sets forth a comprehensive

         5       closure plan for every psychiatric center in the

         6       state must be adhered to, as well as Chapter 55

         7       which relates to the Harlem Valley Psychiatric

         8       Center. We have received assurances from -- with

         9       a letter that I have here from Pat Bulgaro,

        10       whose the Director of the Budget, where he says,

        11        "This will confirm the intention of the

        12       executive to refrain from closing Harlem Valley

        13       Psychiatric Center prior to February 1, 1994."

        14                      The original budget agreement

        15       called for the closure of Harlem Valley on

        16       November 1.  There was a subsequent lawsuit, as

        17       you are aware of, that CSEA and others entered

        18       into which restrained the Office of Mental

        19       Health from closing that facility.  They are in

        20       the process of reaching an agreement on that

        21       lawsuit.

        22                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Will Senator

        23       Spano continue to yield?











                                                             
8145

         1                      SENATOR SPANO:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR PATAKI:  We have a

         3       proposed stipulation which would settle that

         4       lawsuit.  Do you have assurances from the second

         5       floor, from OMH and the Division of the Budget,

         6       that they will abide by the terms of that

         7       proposed stipulation if this budget bill is

         8       adopted?

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  We have received

        10       a proposed stipulation that I understand the

        11       town of Dover is prepared to agree to as well as

        12       the Office of Mental Health.  We have spoken to

        13       the Commissioner's staff.  We have spoken to

        14       Division of Budget that they will commit to keep

        15       the Harlem Valley Psychiatric Center in

        16       operation, continue to operate that facility

        17       with the same number of in-patient census, that

        18       is at the time of this agreement, which is

        19       today, less, of course, any of the individual

        20       discharges that would happen during the regular

        21       ordinary course of their operations.

        22                      SENATOR PATAKI:  And they will

        23       commit to the adoption of this stipulation and











                                                             
8146

         1       in settlement of the case?

         2                      SENATOR SPANO:  Yes, we

         3       understand that they are ready and that the

         4       signatures are imminent that they are ready to

         5       agree to that, and it will be to the

         6       satisfaction of the town of Dover, to the

         7       employees, and to, of course, you and Senator

         8       Saland who have been leading the fight on this

         9       issue.

        10                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Thank you.  Mr.

        11       President, on the bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        13       bill, Senator Pataki.

        14                      SENATOR PATAKI:  First, let me

        15       thank Senator Spano and Senator Saland and

        16       Senator Marino for the effort to make sure that

        17       this problem with the language was corrected.

        18                      As Senator Spano indicated,

        19       originally the Governor intended to close Harlem

        20       valley as of April 1st.  Thanks to the efforts

        21       of the Majority of this house, that was extended

        22       during the budget negotiations to November 1,

        23       and pursuant to the lawsuit brought by the town











                                                             
8147

         1       of Dover, now we have a settlement that would

         2       continue the operation of Harlem Valley through

         3       next February 1.  That lawsuit was based on the

         4       chapters of 1992 which Senator Spano and this

         5       Majority insisted be contained in last year's

         6       budget.  And again, I want to thank this

         7       Majority for your efforts last year to make sure

         8       that these chapters were adopted.

         9                      I just got off the phone with the

        10       attorney for the town of Dover and the

        11       plaintiffs in this action, and I believe that

        12       the stipulation is acceptable to the town and

        13       that it will be settled on that basis by the

        14       plaintiffs, and specifically the town of Dover.

        15                      So on that basis, I can support

        16       this budget bill, and I urge its adoption.

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Spano.

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President,

        21       also with respect to the same page, there is

        22       language on page 44 between lines 5 and 10,

        23       which relate to the Gowanda Psychiatric Center,











                                                             
8148

         1       and I wanted to make sure that we explain why

         2       that specific language is there in this budget

         3       clean-up bill, and that it was explained it was

         4       a three-way agreement between the Senate and

         5       Assembly and Governor that they would not be

         6       making any public policy changes with respect to

         7       this document.  This is the language as it was

         8       related in the original budget language that was

         9       passed.  Since this has been passed, the members

        10       of this house -- we have passed legislation that

        11       would close the Gowanda Psychiatric Center

        12       because we feel it doesn't make sense to operate

        13       a facility costing $1.2 million a year to take

        14       care of 15 patients at that psychiatric center.

        15       We want to make sure it is clear that it is our

        16       position that that psychiatric center should be

        17       closed. If the Assembly feels they want to keep

        18       it open, then that's their business.  But it is

        19       our position that that should be closed

        20       irrespective of what language that had been

        21       previously agreed to as related in this

        22       Chapter.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator











                                                             
8149

         1       Volker.

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         3       very quickly.  The Gowanda Psychiatric Center is

         4       in both Senator Present's and my district, and

         5       the Assembly has been taking the position since

         6       an unfortunate conference that they had back in

         7       March, I guess it was, that they would not agree

         8       to the closure of the Gowanda Psychiatric Center

         9       despite the fact that Department of Mental

        10       Hygiene has run it down to virtually no patients

        11       unless that was an agreement that attach onto

        12       that closure notice that it would never become a

        13       prison.  The Senate has refused to accept such

        14       language as has the Governor, and frankly, this

        15       house has taken the position that because the

        16       center, as Senator Spano said -- because the

        17       center has been run down to where it has, it is

        18       logical to close the center down.

        19                      The Assembly has refused to

        20       accept that, and this language which is in the

        21       bill -- it basically said you can't close the

        22       psychiatric center -- is frankly because they

        23       are worried that it might some day become a











                                                             
8150

         1       prison.

         2                      Now, I think, frankly, that is

         3       kind of a silly position, but that is the

         4       position that the Assembly has absolutely

         5       adhered to and has refused to accept any

         6       different language. So that is the reason that

         7       this language is here and because it was in the

         8       original budget bill.

         9                      I think Senator Present agrees

        10       with me that the situation, I think, is

        11       ludicrous, and ironically, this house has been

        12       castigated by one of the local downstate papers

        13       for keeping the center open when, in reality, we

        14       have been the ones that have been trying to

        15       straighten this mess out that, frankly, was

        16       created initially by the Department of Mental

        17       Hygiene's refusal to agree with us and then try

        18       to blame us for the closing.

        19                      But that is why this language is

        20       here and we continue to press to resolve this

        21       matter in a more logical way.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator











                                                             
8151

         1       Gold.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  What page

         3       was that language on, Senator? Page 44?

         4                      (Laughter)

         5                      Oh, yes.  Thank you.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 2,

        14       Senators Dollinger and Jones recorded in the

        15       negative.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        20       just for the information of the members, we're

        21       advised that there will be food available at

        22       approximately 7:00 p.m., arranged by the Senate

        23       and supervised by Senator Spano, just for their











                                                             
8152

         1       information. In the interim, we'll stand at

         2       ease.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       Senate will have food available approximately at

         5       7:00 p.m. under the direction of Chef Spano.

         6                      (Whereupon, at 6:39 p.m., the

         7       Senate was at ease. )

         8                      (The following announcement was

         9       made at 8:13 p.m., while the Senate was still at

        10       ease. )

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  There will be

        12       an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        13       Room 332.

        14                      (The following announcement was

        15       made at 8:41 p.m., while the Senate was still at

        16       ease. )

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  There will be

        18       an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in

        19       Room 332.

        20                      (Whereupon, the Senate continued

        21       at ease. )

        22                      (The following announcement was

        23       made at 8:49 p.m., while the Senate was still at











                                                             
8153

         1       ease. )

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  On behalf of

         5       Senator Stafford, I would like to announce an

         6       immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in

         7       Room 332.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

         9       will be an immediate meeting of the Finance

        10       Committee in Room 332.

        11                      (The Senate continued at ease. )

        12                      (Whereupon, at 10:04 p.m., Senate

        13       reconvened with Lt. Governor Lundine in the

        14       chair. )

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will come

        16       to order.

        17                      Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       can we return to reports of standing committees,

        20       if there are any at the desk.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        22       read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,











                                                             
8154

         1       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         2       following bills directly for third reading:

         3                      Senate Bill Number 2931B, by

         4       Senator Johnson, an act to amend the Vehicle and

         5       Traffic Law.

         6                      2973, by Senator Daly, an act to

         7       amend the Public Officers Law.

         8                      3725A, by Senator Velella,

         9       Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

        10                      4174B, by Senator Volker, Civil

        11       Practice Law and Rules.

        12                      4758A, by Senator Goodman, an act

        13       to amend the Tax Law.

        14                      4785B, by Senator Skelos, Public

        15       Health Law.

        16                      5344B, by Senator Maltese,

        17       Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        18                      5664, by Senator Nolan, extending

        19       the duration of the eligible list for police

        20       sergeant.

        21                      6195, by Senator Pataki, amends a

        22       chapter of the laws of 1993.

        23                      6198, by Senator Hannon,











                                                             
8155

         1       Emergency Housing Rent Control Law.

         2                      Assembly Bill Number 440 with a

         3       Senate Reprint Number of 21003, by member of the

         4       Assembly Koppell, Surrogate's Court Procedure

         5       Act.

         6                      All bills reported directly for

         7       third reading.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Third reading.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Would you

        10       recognize Senator Levy to make a motion, please.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Levy.

        12                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  Do you have

        13       a bill at the desk for reconsideration?

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy

        15       moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        16       Assembly Bill Number 7686B and substitute it for

        17       the identical Third Reading 761.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution is

        19       ordered, and the bill is laid aside.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  May we begin

        23       with the noncontroversial calendar, Supplemental











                                                             
8156

         1       Calendar Number 2.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Two? Certainly.

         3                      (Whereupon, there was a pause in

         4       the proceedings. )

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         6       can we call up Calendar Number 1648, please.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.  This is on

         8       Supplemental Calendar Number 1, page 2.

         9       Secretary will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        11       Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1648.

        12       Senator Marino moves to discharge the Committee

        13       on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8830 and

        14       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

        15       1648.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        17       ordered.

        18                      Senator Farley.

        19                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes, I think

        20       this needs to be explained a little bit.  I will

        21       try to be brief because it has to be signed by

        22       midnight.  This is a seven-month extender of the

        23       current Banking Law.  This just passed moments











                                                             
8157

         1       ago in the Assembly unanimously.  It is not what

         2       I wanted to do. It's not what this house wanted

         3       to do.  It's not what the Governor wanted to

         4       do.

         5                      But what we will be doing is for

         6       the next few months negotiating and putting

         7       together a permanent piece of banking

         8       legislation which protects this financial

         9       industry in this state.

        10                      I want to express my appreciation

        11       to this house, to both sides of the aisle, for a

        12       54 to 5 vote in passing my bill which was just a

        13       naked extender -- not a -- a permanent extender

        14       of the current Banking Law.  The Superintendent,

        15       the Commissioner of Economic Development,

        16       Assemblyman Farrell, the Governor, everybody has

        17       been committed to permanency.

        18                      We intend to hold some hearings,

        19       Assemblyman Farrell and I, and put this together

        20       and pass it in 1993. Contrary to what the press

        21       and others may say, we are committed to

        22       permanency, and we're planning on doing this,

        23       and let's hope that we can bring it back here











                                                             
8158

         1       when we come back in to do some things later in

         2       the year.

         3                      This is one of the most crucial

         4       pieces of legislation that is facing the state

         5       of New York, and I ask your support for this

         6       bill.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will Senator

        10       Farley yield to a series of 30 questions,

        11       please?

        12                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'd rather not,

        13       but go ahead.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  Never

        15       mind. Last section.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is











                                                             
8159

         1       passed.

         2                      Senator Padavan.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Just as a

         4       matter of clarification. We're going to be

         5       working off the active bill list indicated for

         6       Supplemental Calendar Number 2, but the first

         7       two bills are actually on the first original

         8       calendar.  1584.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you very

        10       much.  Secretary will read.  That's very

        11       useful.  It's on page 27.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 27 of the

        13       regular calendar of today, Calendar Number 1584,

        14       by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6129, Real

        15       Property Tax Law, in relation to the assessment

        16       of special franchises.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  There's a question

        22       on this.  Can we lay this aside temporarily,

        23       please?











                                                             
8160

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Temporarily.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         3       aside temporarily.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 27 of the

         5       regular calendar, Calendar Number 1601,

         6       substituted earlier today, by member of the

         7       Assembly Ferrara, Assembly Bill Number 6823C,

         8       Insurance Law.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        10       section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        19       Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1659. Senator

        20       Johnson moves to discharge the Committee on

        21       Finance from Assembly Bill Number 4873B, and

        22       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        23       1659.











                                                             
8161

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         2       ordered.

         3                      Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1660.  Senator Daly moves to discharge the

        13       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        14       4925 and substitute it for the identical Third

        15       Reading 1660.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        17       ordered.

        18                      Read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.











                                                             
8162

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1661. Senator Velella moves to discharge the

         5       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         6       6158A and substitute it for the identical

         7       Calendar Number 1661.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution is

        10       ordered, and the bill is laid aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1662.  Senator Volker moves to discharge the the

        13       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        14       6655B and substitute it for the identical Third

        15       Reading 1662.

        16                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Lay it aside.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution is

        18       ordered.  The bill is laid aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1663. Senator Goodman moves to discharge the

        21       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        22       8687 and substitute it for the identical Third

        23       Reading 1663.











                                                             
8163

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         2       ordered.

         3                      Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1664, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number

        13       4785B, an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

        14       relation to the operation of hospitals.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        16       section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        23       passed.











                                                             
8164

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1665. Senator Maltese moves to discharge the

         3       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         4       3433B and substitute it for the identical Third

         5       Reading 1665.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         7       ordered.

         8                      Read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        15       passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1666. Senator Nolan moves to discharge the

        18       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        19       7896 and substitute it for the identical Third

        20       Reading 1666.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        22       ordered.  There is a home rule message at the

        23       desk.











                                                             
8165

         1                      Read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         8       passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1667.  Senator Marino moves to discharge the

        11       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        12       8807 and substitute is it for the identical

        13       Third Reading 1667.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        15       ordered.

        16                      Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        23       passed.











                                                             
8166

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1668. Senator Hannon moves to discharge the

         3       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         4       8859 and substitute it for the identical Third

         5       Reading 1668.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         7       ordered. There is a message at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Move to accept

         9       it.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion of

        11       Senator Padavan, all those in favor say aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed nay.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        16       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Lay the bill

        23       aside.











                                                             
8167

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  I am aware of the

         4       time constraints involving this legislation; and

         5       by laying it aside, I am not suggesting that it

         6       be laid aside for an inordinate period of time.

         7       It just seems to me that while the Finance

         8       Committee is going on with, I understand, 99

         9       nominations or whatever it is, there are people

        10       in there who I believe ought to be here.  So I'm

        11       asking that it be laid aside the first time

        12       around.  I assume it will come up in some

        13       expeditious way.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1669, Assembly Bill Number 440B with a Senate

        16       Reprint Number 20003, by member of the Assembly

        17       Koppell, Surrogate's Court Procedure Act.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8168

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

         2       Senator Solomon recorded in the negative.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         4       passed.

         5                      That completes the

         6       non-controversial Supplemental Calendar 2.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         8       may we stand at ease just for a brief period of

         9       time.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  May I have

        13       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        14       on Calendar 1664, please.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        16       objection, so ordered.

        17                      (Whereupon, at 10:21 p.m., the

        18       Senate was at ease. )

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Levy.

        20                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President, I

        21       move to amend Senate Bill Number 5435A, by

        22       striking out the amendments made on July 6 and

        23       restoring it to its original Print Number 5435.











                                                             
8169

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         2       objection, so ordered.

         3                      (The Senate continued at ease. )

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Kuhl.

         5                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.  I would like unanimous consent to be

         7       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         8       1659, Senate Print 2931B; and also Calendar

         9       Number 1665, which is Senate Print 5344B.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without objection

        11       so ordered.

        12                      SENATOR KUHL:  Thank you.

        13                      (Whereupon at 10:24 p.m., the

        14       Senate continued at ease. )

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
8170

         1                      (The Senate reconvened at 10:27

         2       p.m.)

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         6       may we return to reports of standing committees.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         8       read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nomination:

        12                      Commissioner of Social Services,

        13       Michael J. Dowling, of Delmar.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

        15       occurs on the confirmation of the nominee.  All

        16       those in favor, say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      The ayes have it.  The nominee is

        20       confirmed.  Michael J. Dowling, of Delmar as

        21       Commissioner of Social Services.

        22                      Congratulations.

        23                      (Applause)











                                                             
8171

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Not only is the

         2       new Commissioner here, but he's brightened our

         3       night by those accompanying him.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Holland.

         6                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I think we did

         7       this a little bit backwards, but I rise today to

         8       speak in favor of the nomination of Michael

         9       Dowling to be the next Commissioner of Social

        10       Services.  Dr. Dowling has been nominated to

        11       take the place of Dr. Mary Jo Bane, who left to

        12       take a job with the Clinton administration.

        13                      Dr. Bane, in her very short time

        14       as Commissioner, began some ambitious tasks for

        15       the Department, and the nomination of a new

        16       Commissioner gives New York a special

        17       opportunity to improve the system and tailor it

        18       to our growing needs.

        19                      We need a new vision but, more

        20       importantly, the state and its taxpayers need a

        21       stronger manager, someone who will take control

        22       of the system.  Mr. Dowling is no stranger to

        23       state government.  For the past five years, he











                                                             
8172

         1       has been in the Governor's office working on a

         2       wide range of human services issues, and before

         3       that he was Deputy Commissioner at the

         4       Department of Social Services.

         5                      However, an important part of his

         6       career was spent in my home county in the

         7       Rockland County Department of Social Services

         8       where I began -- he began his association with

         9       DSS as director of Title XX and other duties in

        10       Rockland County from 1977 to 1982.  Everyone

        11       believes and hopes that the federal government

        12       is poised to change the welfare system.

        13                      With the magnitude of the case

        14       load and the history of government and philan

        15       thropic generosity, New York has the opportunity

        16       to be a laboratory for experimentation.  We need

        17       to explore some very sensitive complex issues

        18       that remain unexplored for far too long.  For

        19       example, two main issues, two main questions:

        20       What is the proper role of government in meeting

        21       the needs of the disadvantaged; and what is the

        22       obligation of the individual who receives

        23       assistance?











                                                             
8173

         1                      Mr. Dowling, Michael, the

         2       challenge is enormous, but I look forward to a

         3       continuing dialogue on these important and very

         4       costly issues.

         5                      As Mr. President says, Mike and

         6       his wife Cathy and daughter Elizabeth are seated

         7       in the area above us.  It is my pleasure for

         8       myself and on behalf of the entire Social

         9       Services Committee to recommend Mike Dowling as

        10       the next Commissioner of Social Services for the

        11       state of New York.

        12                      Congratulations, Michael.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Waldon,

        14       did you want recognition?

        15                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        16       much, Mr. President.

        17                      I did not have a long relation

        18       ship with our next Commissioner, Mr. Michael

        19       Dowling.  However, today, when we interviewed

        20       him in committee, I was extremely impressed not

        21       just with his credentials, which are so long and

        22       so comprehensive and substantive, but with the

        23       man himself and with the way he responded to











                                                             
8174

         1       questions which not only affect the people in my

         2       district, but the people of all of the state of

         3       New York.

         4                      I think he's going to be an

         5       extraordinarily capable and competent

         6       Commissioner, and I think that he's going to

         7       bring a sensitivity to all of the people of the

         8       state of New York, so that there'll be dignity

         9       even for those who, unfortunately, find

        10       themselves on the welfare rolls and he will

        11       administer the agency with that sensitivity,

        12       with that compassion, and I'm sure in a very

        13       energetic way, and will do best for all of the

        14       people of the state of New York, and I welcome

        15       him in his role, applaud him and his family, and

        16       pledge to you my cooperation in my little role

        17       as a Senator from the 10th Senatorial District.

        18                      Congratulations, Michael.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Espada.

        20                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Yes, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      Today lots of folks in the com

        23       munity-based organizations, medical facilities











                                                             
8175

         1       in the Bronx inner city, and state of New York

         2       are rejoicing because with the commencement of

         3       Michael Dowling's service as the Commissioner,

         4       that bureaucracy that we often refer to here in

         5       debate will no longer be a faceless bureaucracy,

         6       but one that truly understands that the main

         7       streaming of poor people out of welfare

         8       dependency into jobs with living wages that the

         9       Koerner Commission's findings of 1965 said that

        10       we were headed, one nation headed to two

        11       societies, that Michael Dowling understands that

        12       we have to be one nation, that we have to be

        13       about giving people opportunity.

        14                      He understands that that doesn't

        15       come free of charge.  It's a responsibility that

        16       goes along with that, but we all, Mr. Dowling,

        17       we all do rejoice in your nomination.  We find

        18       hope in that the poor people and those people

        19       who are dependent on public assistance would not

        20       be stigmatized or, in fact, have a true

        21       understanding in government by people like

        22       yourself and your new administration.

        23                      Good luck.











                                                             
8176

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gonzalez,

         2       did you wish recognition?

         3                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Mr. President,

         4       I, too, rise.  I know Michael Dowling for quite

         5       a bit, and he's an extraordinary person, visited

         6       my district, but he is an individual that visits

         7       all our districts.  He reaches out.  He doesn't

         8       stay behind the desks, and I think that that's

         9       very important to what he does and, as

        10       Commissioner of Social Services, I know that he

        11       will do the best on behalf of all the people of

        12       the state of New York, and congratulations to

        13       him and to his family.

        14                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        16       Markowitz.

        17                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

        18       very much, Mr. President.

        19                      As a proud member of the Irish

        20       American legislators of New York State, it's

        21       proud, proud, Michael, to advance you, to see

        22       you take this most important position, not only

        23       because you're Irish, not only because we enjoy











                                                             
8177

         1       your brogue very much, but because you have

         2       shown in every job that you have held a complete

         3       dedication to the task ahead.  Why you want to

         4       go from what you have to this hot spot, to one

         5       of the most difficult jobs in state government,

         6       only you can answer, except for the rest of us,

         7       we can say we're glad you made that decision.

         8                      Good luck.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Volker.

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        11       very briefly, I know it's -- it's rather late,

        12       but I couldn't help but say a couple of words

        13       about my good friend, Mike Dowling.

        14                      I have known Mike for many years

        15       dating back to his New York City days, and at

        16       one time I remember we started out on kind of a

        17       rocky foundation, but became very good friends.

        18       One of the brightest men that I have ever met in

        19       state government, and I must say as far as the

        20       city of Buffalo is concerned, the development in

        21       the last few years and the expansion of Roswell

        22       Park is probably as much the work of Mike

        23       Dowling as anybody I know of.  It's a great











                                                             
8178

         1       cancer facility, it's going to become greater,

         2       and your work was a major part of that.

         3                      I thank you for the cooperation

         4       that you have given to me and so many of my

         5       fellow Senate members for the last few years

         6       and, as I said to you, when the word came that

         7       you were going to be nominated it's a mixed

         8       blessing, I guess.  We're happy to have you,

         9       obviously, in Social Services but we're

        10       certainly going to miss you an awful lot in the

        11       job that you had.

        12                      Good luck and Godspeed.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you.  I'm

        15       pleased, Mr. President, to rise to second the

        16       nomination of Michael Dowling.  It's truly the

        17       Governor's loss to lose such a magnificent

        18       counsel, but what a great public servant.

        19                      Michael Dowling has solved signi

        20       ficant problems in sensitive ways on behalf -

        21       on my behalf in my district.  He's an outstand

        22       ing public servant.  I know he'll be a great

        23       Commissioner of Social Services, and it's nice











                                                             
8179

         1       to see an Irishman make good.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

         3                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      As chairman of the Senate Health

         6       Committee and chairman of the Council on Health

         7       Care Financing, I've had the opportunity to work

         8       closely with Michael Dowling on many issues in

         9       the area of human need and social services, and

        10       I've found him to be a very dedicated and

        11       competent professional.

        12                      He's one heck of a negotiator.

        13       He's a cool tactician, but he does have that

        14       great Gaelic wit that I think endears him to so

        15       many of us, and I'm certain that he will do an

        16       excellent job as the Commissioner of Social

        17       Services.

        18                      I wish my colleague, Joe Holland,

        19       lots of good luck in his negotiations that he

        20       may have with this tough guy up there because

        21       he's proven to be an able adversary but together

        22       with the help of our colleagues in the

        23       Legislature and the Governor, we've done many,











                                                             
8180

         1       many good things for the people of this state

         2       and I see many, many more good things happening

         3       as long as Michael Dowling is in public

         4       service.

         5                      I'm pleased to second his

         6       nomination.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nolan.

         8                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Just like to

         9       congratulate the Governor on an extremely fine

        10       appointment.  I must echo, Michael, some of the

        11       concerns of my colleagues about why you would

        12       want to take this job because you certainly are

        13       walking into -- from the -- into a hot spot, but

        14       I personally want to thank you for all of the

        15       great things that you've done locally here.

        16                      Obviously, on a statewide basis

        17       you've done tremendous things, but looking at so

        18       many of the facilities here in Albany that

        19       you've helped, whether it be the Cerebral Palsy

        20       Center or St. Peter's Hospital and certainly all

        21       of Father Young's projects which are legion, you

        22       certainly have epitomized what the finest in

        23       public service is all about, and I certainly











                                                             
8181

         1       wish you continued good -- good luck and God

         2       speed with your new appointment.  I know you'll

         3       do your same tremendous job and any help that we

         4       here can give you, we certainly will.

         5                      So congratulations, Mike.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

         8       also rise in support of the nomination of

         9       Michael Dowling for Commissioner of Social Ser

        10       vices and, again, to congratulate the Governor

        11       for having -- for choosing a magnificent and

        12       competent professional.

        13                      In my association with him, Mr.

        14       President, I have seen that he's of keen

        15       intelligence.  He has been a good public servant

        16       because he is interested in doing the best to -

        17       to effect an ease in people's life.  He's a

        18       problem solver in terms of the concerns that so

        19       many of my colleagues have expressed here.

        20                      As to wondering why he's going to

        21       go into such a difficult job, I must say I think

        22       that he has this strong commitment, this very

        23       strong commitment, and he's shown it in his











                                                             
8182

         1       entire life as a public servant, that those who

         2       are down and need services from the Governor are

         3       not to be denied but, on the other hand, ought

         4       to be given a lift ahead so that they could be

         5       independent and -- and sort of effect for

         6       themselves.

         7                      I'm looking forward, Michael, to

         8       work with you.  He has reached out, as has been

         9       expressed here today, to every one of us.

        10       Whenever there is a problem, he, with his mind

        11       and his good will and his education, he is there

        12       trying to resolve it and he is very good at

        13       resolving problems.

        14                      So congratulations, Michael, and

        15       again, congratulations to the Governor for

        16       having chosen you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        18       Masiello.

        19                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      It's certainly a pleasure to

        22       second the nomination of Michael Dowling as

        23       Commissioner of Social Services.  Oftentimes all











                                                             
8183

         1       of us hear what's bad or who's bad about public

         2       service and this nomination of Michael Dowling

         3       gives all of us an opportunity to really

         4       recognize a true professional, a professional

         5       who's knowledgeable, accessible, does his job

         6       and does it well, and I'm looking forward to

         7       working with you, and I'm so glad that we have

         8       somebody like you, Michael, who wants to take on

         9       the leadership of the Department of Social

        10       Services with all of their problems.

        11                      We need somebody who has the

        12       presence of mind but also the presence of heart

        13       to deal with those kinds of problems, and I know

        14       that state government and the Department of

        15       Social Services just became infinitely better

        16       with you as their head.

        17                      Good luck.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Libous.

        19                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      I, too, rise to second the

        22       nomination of Michael Dowling, and I just want

        23       to say that I've had the pleasure of working











                                                             
8184

         1       with Mike Dowling on a number of pieces of

         2       legislation over the past couple of years and he

         3       is not only a great public servant, but when you

         4       work with Mike Dowling we always come to a

         5       positive conclusion and that conclusion is for

         6       the good of the people of New York State, and I

         7       think that's first and foremost of what he has

         8       in his heart and his mind.

         9                      The other special quality with

        10       Mike Dowling is that, when he gives you his

        11       word, he sticks by it, and I think that is a

        12       rare quality today in dealing with any public

        13       official or administrator.

        14                      So, Michael, I wish you the very

        15       best, and I look forward to working with you in

        16       the years ahead.

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I would also

        18       like -

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford

        20       is recognized.

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I would just

        22       like to incorporate what everybody has said.  I

        23       think that will be -- will suffice but I, too,











                                                             
8185

         1       have known Michael both professionally and

         2       personally, and we're very fortunate to have him

         3       in this very important position.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         5       Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         7       President, I rise to also second the nomination

         8       of Michael Dowling.  I don't know Mr. Dowling

         9       well; I've met him a couple of times, but the

        10       people in the city of Rochester with many

        11       problems, many misfortunes, are certainly going

        12       to be looking to your leadership as a guide to

        13       them, and I'd just say that since the name

        14       Michael Dowling was mentioned in this chamber,

        15       the lights have gone on.  If you can work that

        16       magic in the rest of the state of New York,

        17       you'll make it a much brighter place.

        18                      I look forward to working with

        19       you, and congratulations.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Now, Senator

        21       Halperin.

        22                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Lest my

        23       silence be misinterpreted as as much support as











                                                             
8186

         1       anyone else in this chamber for the nominee, I

         2       just wish to rise and second the nomination.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  And I think I

         4       better call the roll on confirmation.  Is there

         5        -- the question is on the confirmation of the

         6       nominee.  All those in favor say aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed nay.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      The nominee is confirmed.

        11                      (Applause)

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The committee

        15       report on nominations, of course, has many other

        16       nominations, many other nominees to consider.

        17       Unfortunately, we have a problem in that one of

        18       the statutes that we are about to deal with

        19       expires at midnight.  So we, unfortunately, must

        20       return to that bill, Calendar Number 1668, and

        21       as soon as that debate and vote is taken, then

        22       we will return to the committee report on

        23       nominees.











                                                             
8187

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         2       read, and we'll have order in the chamber.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On Supplemental

         4       Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1668,

         5       substituted earlier, by the Assembly Committee

         6       on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8859, Emergency

         7       Housing Rent Control.

         8                      VOICE:  Explanation.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Explanation is

        10       requested.  So, I'm not -- yes, we do.  The

        11       message has been accepted.

        12                      Senator Hannon.  Senator Hannon

        13       is recognized.

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President,

        15       may I inquire, has the bill been substituted?

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes, it was

        17       earlier today.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, it was?

        19       Thank you.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  It was

        21       substituted, and the message was accepted.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  This bill is

        23       entitled the Rent Regulation Reform Act of











                                                             
8188

         1       1993.  It represents a compromise between the

         2       two houses in regards to the rent regulation

         3       laws in this state.  It does a number of things,

         4       and in order to make sure the record is clear, I

         5       would just like to mention them.

         6                      It would provide that apartments

         7       which have a legal regulated rent of $2,000 or

         8       more per month at any time between the effective

         9       date of this act and October 1st, '93, shall be

        10       subject to the decontrol provisions of this

        11       act.

        12                      The bill provides that such

        13       deregulation shall either occur upon vacancy of

        14       the current occupants or immediately if the

        15       apartment is presently vacant.  It also provides

        16       for a second decontrol mechanism.  If the legal

        17       rent charged as of October 1st, '93 is equal to

        18       or greater than $2,000 per month and the

        19       apartment is occupied by a high income

        20       household, the apartment may be deregulated

        21       prior to vacancy in accordance with the

        22       verification and deregulation procedures set

        23       forth in the bill.











                                                             
8189

         1                      For the purposes of this

         2       mechanism, a high income household is defined as

         3       one where the total federal adjusted gross

         4       income of all the occupants residing in the

         5       apartment as their primary residence is in

         6       excess of $250,000 in each of the two preceding

         7       years.

         8                      In the case of buildings which

         9       have received an exemption under Section 421 of

        10       the Real Property Tax Law, the decontrol

        11       provisions of this bill would apply to high

        12       income tenants in those units where rent

        13       regulation would otherwise continue upon the

        14       expiration of the real property tax benefits

        15       provided to the owner.

        16                      This bill also amends the ETPA,

        17       Emergency Tenant Protection Act to provide that

        18       housing accommodations owned as cooperatives or

        19       condo units which are vacant or which become

        20       vacant after the effective date of this act,

        21       shall not be subject to the provisions of this

        22       act provided, however, that the existing rights

        23       of the non-purchasing tenants will not be











                                                             
8190

         1       affected by this provision.

         2                      The bill also codifies existing

         3       regulations which allow owners to increase the

         4       rent to the stabilized apartment in amounts

         5       equal to one-fortieth of the cost of the

         6       improvements provided to an apartment when

         7       requested by the tenant.  If the tenants are in

         8       place, obviously then this increase can only

         9       take place with the tenants' consent.  For

        10       vacant apartments no consent is required.

        11                      There is also a provision that

        12       where an owner failed to file a timely

        13       registration under rent stabilization or ETPA,

        14       the owner shall not be subject to rent over

        15       charge penalties if the rental increases were

        16       otherwise lawful, and the owner files the

        17       missing registration, although the owner can be

        18       fined or will be fined a 50 percent surcharge

        19       for late filing.

        20                      There is a study form to be done

        21       in conjunction with the Senate and Assembly

        22       Housing Committees in regard to a whole host of

        23       pressing major problems for the housing in the











                                                             
8191

         1       metropolitan area, with a report by June 30th,

         2       1995.  There is a four-year extender of the

         3       ETPA, the state and the New York City rent

         4       control condo and could open laws, to June 15th,

         5       1997.

         6                      This basically is the outline of

         7       the provision that has been a subject of much

         8       debate, 22 years of discussion, 22 days of

         9       round-the-clock negotiations.  We have not

        10       allowed for the curtailment or abrogation of any

        11       existing rights which are set forth in the bill

        12       that would be done prior to any order of

        13       decontrol by DHCR.

        14                      The idea in all of the proceed

        15       ings that have been set forth is that they be

        16       administratively simple, administratively ex

        17       peditious.  In fact, this act specifically sets

        18       forth the timetable for decontrol proceedings so

        19       that no other suits or proceedings, motions or

        20       actions can act to stop or stay these

        21       proceedings.

        22                      SENATOR KUHL:  Explanation is

        23       satisfactory.











                                                             
8192

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Goodman.

         2                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

         3       in the year 1974, under the Governorship of

         4       Malcolm Wilson, when both of the houses of this

         5       Legislature were controlled by Republicans, a

         6       law was passed known as the Emergency Tenant

         7       Protection Act.  That act was an omnibus act

         8       which was designed, through its many provisions,

         9       to provide manifold protections to tenants who

        10       were occupying the housing stock around the

        11       state, and that law came into existence after an

        12       experiment had been attempted called vacancy

        13       decontrol.

        14                      Vacancy decontrol was an attempt

        15       to dismantle a law that had been in existence

        16       since World War II for the purpose of recog

        17       nizing that the supply and demand of housing

        18       stock was such that there was far less supply

        19       and far more demand than one would have wished

        20       and, therefore, that if there were no controls

        21       imposed upon the relationship of supply and

        22       demand, rents would have skyrocketed.

        23                      Because of the great hardship











                                                             
8193

         1       that such skyrocketing rents would have imposed,

         2       it was found necessary to create something

         3       called rent control, and then an attempt was

         4       made to roll it back completely on the theory

         5       that, if an apartment became vacant, it could

         6       then be placed upon the market at a free market

         7       level, and there would be no need for any

         8       further rent control.  A fine theory, but

         9       unfortunately one that proved to be disastrously

        10       inadequate in practice for a very simple reason:

        11                      A number of landlords, and I'm

        12       not sure the exact number, I hope it was not a

        13       majority, but a significant number decided that

        14       there was a bonanza on the horizon and that the

        15       way to accomplish the goal of increased profits

        16       was to find a variety of methods to harass

        17       tenants out of their apartments, and the methods

        18       were appalling.

        19                      We have on the record, based upon

        20       the hearings of those days, specific reports of

        21       landlords hiring goons to go into apartments

        22       with sledgehammers, banging on the front doors

        23       of apartments to frighten tenants, of landlords











                                                             
8194

         1       using literally large dogs to patrol the

         2       corridors of the apartment, often out of control

         3       and once again to frighten tenants.

         4                      The result was that vacancy

         5       decontrol became so odoriferous and unacceptable

         6       that it became necessary to repeal it, and

         7       that's what was done in 1974, and that's what

         8       ushered in the era of the Emergency Tenant

         9       Protection Act.

        10                      Briefly, that act sought to

        11       change the ground rules of rent control and to

        12       provide a regular annual review by a supposedly

        13       objective board which would determine on what

        14       basis rents could increase, and that, in turn,

        15       was directly related to the question of supply

        16       and demand of apartments.

        17                      Over the years, the Emergency

        18       Tenant Protection Act was extended in two-year

        19       intervals by this and the other house and over

        20       the years every two years the tenants were

        21       thrown into a fright when they wondered what

        22       would become of them if the Emergency Tenant

        23       Protection Act were repealed in view of the











                                                             
8195

         1       persistent continuance of a very low vacancy

         2       rate of the great bulk of apartments especially

         3       in the city of New York, but also in Westchester

         4       and some of the areas surrounding New York.

         5                      The results over the years have

         6       been moderately satisfactory in the sense that,

         7       although there are a variety of evasions

         8       attempted to get around the strictures of the

         9       Emergency Tenant Protection Act, by and large

        10       they were a kind of a safety vest for tenants

        11       who were desperately in need of some degree of

        12       security in their home.

        13                      Now, in recent years, we're very

        14       familiar with the fact that there has been

        15       persistent inflation.  We're also familiar with

        16       the fact that, in the last couple of years

        17       there's been a very deep recession, and let's be

        18       quite clear what the central issue is in

        19       considering this whole issue of whether to go

        20       with rent control and rent stabilization.

        21                      The core question which we've had

        22       to grapple with is the question of how to

        23       provide some relief from the vast middle class











                                                             
8196

         1       which occupies our urban areas to protect them

         2       against the possibility of their rent skyrocket

         3       ing.

         4                      Now, rents are not a small matter

         5       to the average tenant.  Typically, the relation

         6       ship of income to rent is that rent occupies

         7       about one-third of the average income.  You can

         8       readily see that, if one out of every three

         9       dollars of income goes to pay rent, we're then

        10       in a position where a sudden upward lurch in

        11       rent could throw a family's finances into rude

        12       disarray.

        13                      Over the years, this house,

        14       through the efforts of a number of Senators, and

        15       I believe my own were very much involved here,

        16       passed several measures of some significant help

        17       to tenants.  For my first eight years in this

        18       house, I was chairman of the Housing Committee

        19       and during that period and after a number of

        20       laws came into being, first the two-year

        21       extensions of the 1974 ETPA; then a law which

        22       made it easier for tenants to pay for major

        23       capital improvements -- I'll speak more about











                                                             
8197

         1       that in a moment -- a law requiring 51 percent

         2       tenant approval for co-op or condominium

         3       eviction plans; a law to protect the elderly and

         4       disabled from evictions when their buildings

         5       were converted to co-ops and condo's; a law to

         6       create a system of rent registration developed

         7       by tenants and to determine their legality, a

         8       crucial piece of the backbone of the ETPA

         9       because landlords were required to register

        10       apartments and there was then oversight

        11       exercised to be certain that they didn't over

        12       charge the legally permissible amount for those

        13       apartments; and then there was a law which

        14       mandated treble damages in the event that the

        15       landlords did transgress and did, in fact, over

        16       charge.  That law has had teeth in it, and then

        17       a law to prohibit rent surcharges and pass

        18       alongs in rent-stabilized apartments and one to

        19       extend tax abatement to hold down rents in such

        20       major urban enclaves for the middle class as

        21       Stuyvesant Town and one to strengthen housing

        22       code enforcement and give tenants recourse if

        23       violations are not corrected.  Brick upon brick











                                                             
8198

         1       of a solid wall of protection was erected for

         2       the purpose of protecting those whose incomes

         3       would be heavily impacted if this system were

         4       thrown out of kilter.

         5                      Now, be it noted, however, that

         6       while all of that was going on, some other

         7       things were happening, also originated by myself

         8       and others in this house for the benefit of

         9       landlords.  I refer specifically to the

        10       so-called 421-A legislation which said to the

        11       landlords, if you will build a building upon

        12       under-developed land and if you will allow that

        13       building to have rent-stabilized apartments,

        14       upon the completion of it, we will give you what

        15       amounts to a 50 percent discount in your real

        16       estate taxes.

        17                      That proved to be a tremendously

        18       potent incentive, and billions of dollars in

        19       housing were erected in the city of New York and

        20       outside it.  In addition, there were other

        21       measures which were helpful to landlords so that

        22       we didn't have a totally one-sided approach.

        23       We wanted to stimulate this new housing











                                                             
8199

         1       construction, and there was something called J.

         2       51, and there were changes made in the loft law

         3       construction.

         4                      In short, what was attempted dur

         5       ing this period was some degree of equilibrium

         6       and lest it escape our notice, a number of the

         7       landlords during this period, many of them

         8       respectable New Yorkers, made vast fortunes as a

         9       result of the opportunities provided to them to

        10       build this type of subsidized housing, not to

        11       mention the Mitchell-Lama laws and a whole group

        12       of related direct government subsidies.

        13                      Things were going along reason

        14       ably well until the year 1992, and that brings

        15       us to the present.  In addition to a recession

        16       which also affected the landlords, there was an

        17       enormous pressure building up to sweep away the

        18       whole scheme of rent legislation and rent

        19       control.

        20                      A lot of people said allow the

        21       free market to come into play.  They ignored the

        22       fact there was a 3.5 percent overall vacancy

        23       rate and that's the latest number which has not











                                                             
8200

         1       yet been published, but we just received it from

         2       the official sources.  Let me just repeat it:

         3       Overall there is a 3.5 percent vacancy rate,

         4       meaning that supply and demand are nowhere near

         5       equilibrium.

         6                      Now, my friends, with that having

         7       been said, we are at this moment confronted with

         8       a piece of legislation which has some virtues,

         9       and it has some vices.  The virtues of the

        10       legislation are very briefly as follows:

        11                      The two-year "nervous breakdown

        12       syndrome" has been broken.  It is no longer a

        13       two-year cycle; it has become a four-year cycle

        14       and, in my view, that is a very great advantage

        15       to tenants because the great mass of them will

        16       not have to worry about where they are going to

        17       move to and/or where they're going to be after

        18       we act for another four years.

        19                      In addition, there are some other

        20       significant benefits.  These benefits basically

        21       relate to the fact that we are going to have a

        22       series of specific -- specific aspects of this

        23       law which will enable the tenant to have certain











                                                             
8201

         1       assurances with respect to his basic security.

         2                      But, Mr. President, let me say

         3       what we have failed to achieve.  There has been

         4       proposed a vacancy decontrol applicable to

         5       luxury apartments.  It is an indisputable

         6       proposition, I'm sure, that millionaires should

         7       not be living in rent-controlled or rent

         8       stabilized apartments where they do not need to

         9       have the benefit of landlord subsidization of

        10       their rents.  Unarguable proposition, but then

        11       the question arises how to deal with it.

        12                      Had they, the real estate lobby,

        13       had its way, the way in which it would have been

        14       dealt with was to sweep away all controls, a

        15       grossly unsatisfactory solution because it would

        16       have wounded, if not killed, a number of people

        17       who vitally depend on these laws for their

        18       security, and so what happened initially was

        19       that whereas it appeared for a time as though

        20       there might be an effort for total vacancy

        21       decontrol, a number of the Senators in this

        22       house on both sides of the aisle -- but I'll

        23       particularly single out the members from the











                                                             
8202

         1       city of New York on this side -- did everything

         2       within their power to persuade those who were

         3       considering other possibilities, including the

         4       distinguished chairman of Housing and the

         5       Majority Leader, that to listen to the siren

         6       song of the landlords and to sweep away all

         7       controls would have a devastating effect.

         8                      Now, let it be noted that had it

         9       been the desire of those involved in the

        10       leadership of this house to bring about the end

        11       of rent control, it would have been a very

        12       simple matter to accomplish that.  Why?  Because

        13       June 15th at midnight was the deadline for that

        14       law to expire, and all that would have had to

        15       have happened, if there had been the devilish

        16       plot that has been described in the other house

        17       in a really macabre debate this evening, would

        18       have been to let the whole system go over the

        19       cliff at one minute after midnight on the 15th.

        20                      That did not happen, but note how

        21       simple it would have been to have let it happen

        22       if that had been the desire of the leadership of

        23       the house.











                                                             
8203

         1                      I must admit that we came

         2       perilously close, due to a breakdown in

         3       discussions which did not reflect the true

         4       intention of the leadership, and I did find

         5       myself in a rather rapid shuttle back and forth

         6       between this house and the Assembly on the night

         7       of June 15th to make certain that the two

         8       leaders were able to confer through an open

         9       phone line, and thank God that Conference did

        10       result in an extension which enabled clearer

        11       heads to prevail in the further development of

        12       legislation.

        13                      There have been three more

        14       extensions, and the latest one is coming up at

        15       12:00 midnight; so I'll try to wrap this up as

        16       quickly as I can to give others a chance to

        17       talk, and let me just say that the final result

        18       which has emerged is a mixed bag.  It does seek

        19       vacancy luxury decontrol, and it seeks to weed

        20       out that millionaires' club and subsidized

        21       buildings, but it does it in a way that,

        22       unfortunately, brings into play something which

        23       has a very dangerous possible future, and that











                                                             
8204

         1       is the concept of income verification.

         2                      The specific level selected of a

         3       quarter of a million dollars a year is not a

         4       level that causes great concern in my bosom,

         5       because there are only 4,000 apartments which

         6       have $2,000 a month or more rent, and within

         7       that I dare say the significant majority are not

         8       occupied by people who earn more than a quarter

         9       of a million dollars a year.

        10                      Therefore, out of the 4,000

        11       eligible apartments, there's not only a very

        12       small number that meet the income test for

        13       decontrol, but within that segment and mark this

        14       well, there is a situation in which we find that

        15       the free market has come into play.

        16                      This is amply described in the

        17       other house by Assemblyman Friedman, by Assem

        18       blyman Koppell, and some others who pointed out

        19       very properly that many of the rents being paid

        20       in those luxury apartments are below the permis

        21       sible rent level under rent stabilization.  So

        22       the fact of the matter is that this segment that

        23       has been singled out for income verification is











                                                             
8205

         1       relatively tiny.  Out of the two and a half

         2       million tenants in New York, I've got a hunch

         3       that this might affect a thousand tenants, maybe

         4       less, maybe a little more.  We can't be precise

         5       from available statistics.

         6                      The problem, however, is that

         7       there is something called the Department of

         8       Housing and Community Renewal which is the state

         9       entity charged with the responsibility of

        10       administering the rent laws.  There are six

        11       years of arrearages in the handling of their

        12       business, people who are charging that they're

        13       paying too much rent, people with other

        14       complaints on a line that's from here to the

        15       Mississippi River and will take six years to

        16       clear.

        17                      Whom do we select to handle the

        18       income verification?  You guessed it!  DHCR,

        19       which is already swamped and at the moment

        20       bubbling as its nose goes below the surface of

        21       its work load and it can hardly breathe.  It's

        22       about to suffocate because we've decided that

        23       we're going to hand it the interesting problem











                                                             
8206

         1       of performing income verification.

         2                      I submit that this is not the way

         3       to go.  My colleagues, if mine were the vote

         4       that had to be cast to decide the outcome of

         5       this bill, let me say to you in utmost candor I

         6       would feel constrained to vote for it.  I do not

         7       expect that that is the case.  If it becomes the

         8       case, I will change what I expect to cast as a

         9       negative vote, but my negative vote is

        10       predicated upon three very severe problems that

        11       I have with this bill.

        12                      Number one is this process of

        13       income verification which I submit to you is an

        14       unworkable Rube Goldberg invention about to

        15       collapse of its own weight.

        16                      Number two is the fact that two

        17       of the laws which I proudly informed you I had

        18       the pleasure of sponsoring some years ago, one

        19       to verify legal rents through a system of rent

        20       regulation and one to charge treble damages for

        21       landlord over-charges, those measures passed in

        22       a Republican-controlled house, are being

        23       dismantled in the bill that's before us.











                                                             
8207

         1                      The problem is very clear and

         2       very simple:  If you need rent registration to

         3       create the skeletal structure around which this

         4       whole thing is to be made viable and if you pull

         5       apart rent registration by saying instead of the

         6       treble damage penalty, we'll give you a small

         7       slap on the wrist, Mr. Landlord, if you have not

         8       registered your apartment, you are severely

         9       impinging upon the ability of this system to

        10       function and that, in my opinion, is

        11       unfortunate.

        12                      I am breathing an enormous sigh

        13       of relief in conclusion because I know that the

        14       great overwhelming majority of the tenants in my

        15       district, hundreds of thousands of them and

        16       hundreds of thousands in your districts, will be

        17       protected for four more years as a result of the

        18       action we take tonight if this bill passes which

        19       I confidently expect it will.  It did so

        20       overwhelmingly in the Assembly, I might add,

        21       with a significant number of both Democratic and

        22       Republican votes.

        23                      But my negative vote is intended











                                                             
8208

         1       to symbolize my concern that the very measures

         2       we took previously to try to give some reason

         3       able teeth to this enforcement procedure are

         4       being yanked from us so that what we will have

         5       to have is not a tiger with teeth in it but a

         6       tiger whose gums are expected to inflict wounds

         7       upon those who transgress.  Thus you will hear a

         8       chopping sounding noise instead of the click of

         9       sharp teeth keeping transgressors in line, and I

        10       say to you that's nuts, and it's wrong, and it's

        11       a shame.

        12                      So this is the way I see things

        13       from here.  We have stopped dead in their tracks

        14       the onslaught of those who sought to run this

        15       ball right over us across the goal line.  We

        16       stopped them dead on the ten yard line and we've

        17       held the line, but we end the game in better

        18       shape than we began because of the four-year

        19       extension.

        20                      That, my friends, is not the

        21       complete solution, but it's better than what I

        22       thought we might have that night when I got on

        23       the shuttle from here to the Assembly, and thank











                                                             
8209

         1       goodness, what we have is a compromise that has

         2       its good and bad points.

         3                      I shall vote against it unless

         4       mine is the decisive vote.  Thank you.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Espada.

         6                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Mr. President,

         7       throughout this protracted debate -- and I won't

         8       speak to process, because I think everyone here

         9       is tired, everyone here from the past several

        10       weeks who has experienced this essentially was

        11       taking millions of people hostage through a

        12       process that was absolutely unnecessary, but to

        13       the merits of the case.

        14                      This whole thing has been mis

        15       cast.  This debate is not about luxury decontrol

        16       of anything.  This has always been about 2

        17       million people, the majority of whom earn less

        18       than $20,000 per year, 25 percent of whom are

        19       under the federal poverty guidelines.  That is

        20       what this whole thing was about.  Luxury

        21       decontrol had, in fact, taken place de facto for

        22       the 2,000-plus households; for those who enjoy a

        23       $250,000 income level, they've always had their











                                                             
8210

         1       option.  There is a ten percent plus of vacancy,

         2       of vacancy rate, for those apartments that are

         3       in that income strata.

         4                      So this whole thing has been

         5       miscast.  But since we've had it out and since

         6       we've come to this moment, I hope that rent

         7       regulation, that those that say rent regulation

         8       causes them embarrassment will shut up, that

         9       those who say that rent regulation benefits the

        10       rich will shut up, and that those who say that

        11       rent regulation impedes construction of new

        12       housing will shut up and, in effect, start

        13       talking about the construction of new housing

        14       opportunities and homes for the people who have

        15       no apartments, for the people who are doubling

        16       and tripling up in public housing because,

        17       indeed, that's where the debate needs to be

        18       focused, that's where the state's resources need

        19       to be coordinated with the federal initiative

        20       that hopefully will come and, even if they don't

        21       come, we have a responsibility now in the next

        22       four years to devote as much time to the people

        23       that are waiting outside my district office











                                                             
8211

         1       every day in the South Bronx and throughout the

         2       City and other cities in this state, waiting for

         3       housing.

         4                      They can't negotiate leases.

         5       They have none.  They're not even welcomed in

         6       shelters.  In fact, they don't want to be in

         7       shelters, so we have a unique opportunity to put

         8       all that behind us and to have the housing

         9       committee of this Senate really hold true to two

        10       choices, housing and community renewal.

        11                      We stand ready in support of this

        12       bill so that we can get on with the business of

        13       real housing and real community development.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

        15                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President,

        16       would Senator Hannon yield?

        17                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        18                      SENATOR DALY:  Senator, I note

        19       there was a strong criticism of the verification

        20       of income part of this bill.  Could you explain

        21       how this will be implemented and administrated

        22        -- administered?

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, we have











                                                             
8212

         1       tried to do a very simple procedure, one that

         2       mandates that all privacy considerations remain

         3       intact, one that, because this is directed

         4       towards level of income, seeks to reform this

         5       system and make this -- this whole system of

         6       general public assistance better, one that can

         7       be done with simple verification.

         8                      It leaves the bureaucracy out of

         9       this process at the very beginning.  It also

        10       then asks DHCR only to check upon appeal and not

        11       to check anything else but whether or not the

        12       records of the state reflect an income that's

        13       greater than the eligibility limit.

        14                      It presumes, and I think it can

        15       be shown from the experience with Mitchell-Lama,

        16       that the whole system can work in a fairly

        17       simple and easy manner.  It takes actually the

        18       sting out of the system because the greatest

        19       criticism, notwithstanding my good friend

        20       Senator Espada's remark about criticism of the

        21       rich benefiting, that's what's harming the whole

        22       system.  That's what led to the great reform

        23       here, and so we have tried to do it in a way











                                                             
8213

         1       that can be done with names and addresses alone

         2       and you're dealing with a very small universe.

         3                      It provides for an absolutely

         4       simple administrative procedure.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President,

         7       will Senator Hannon yield for a question?

         8                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Hannon,

        10       your bill will include -- will affect those

        11       renters who are in apartments J.51s and 421-As.

        12       O.K. Those buildings were constructed with some

        13       part of taxpayers' monies, monies from all of

        14       us, and all of the people out there in the state

        15       of New York to help the developers build those

        16       apartments.

        17                      My question to you is, once this

        18       bill is approved here and it will pass this

        19       chamber, will those landlords keep and not get

        20       taken away, keep the decontrol of the so-called

        21       luxury apartments with the abatements, those tax

        22       abatements that they have negotiated, or will

        23       they be returned to the taxpayers?











                                                             
8214

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, in answer

         2       to your question, Senator, which is an excellent

         3       one, we have provided that, because some

         4       buildings are enjoying another system of general

         5       public assistance, namely the tax exemptions,

         6       that to the extent the building is currently

         7       receiving a 421 tax exemption, it is not subject

         8       to the decontrol provisions here.  Should those

         9       exemptions end or should the exemptions

        10       contained in section 489 end, that's -- those

        11       J.51s and 489s end, then they would be subject

        12       so that at no point do you have the decontrol

        13       provisions applying to the buildings which have

        14       received the tax exemptions that I just

        15       mentioned.

        16                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  So as long as

        17       the landlord has a building which was occupied

        18       with tenants that receive the 421-A tax

        19       abatement or the J.51 tax abatement, as long as

        20       that building is receiving those benefits, those

        21       apartments will not be decontrolled; is that

        22       what you're saying?

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  Let me repeat











                                                             
8215

         1       myself:  So long as there are tax exemptions or

         2       abatements contained in Section 421 or Section

         3       489, then the decontrol provisions would not

         4       apply, but once those abatements or exemptions

         5       end, and if the rest of the eligibility

         6       standards of this statute are present, then they

         7       would apply.

         8                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  So that in the

         9       final -- so that then assuming that ten years go

        10       by and the tax abatements for the 421-A or J.51

        11       ends, once those apartments are decontrolled,

        12       the -- the landlord no longer would probably

        13       retain taxes, I want to know, I'm just

        14       interested in finding out if in any event there

        15       is any possibility that an owner of a building

        16       will, in fact, be able to decontrol the rent in

        17       his apartment at the same time that he's

        18       receiving taxpayers' dollars through tax

        19       abatements.

        20                      SENATOR HANNON:  To the extent

        21       there are tax exemptions or abatements as I've

        22       previously mentioned.

        23                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.  They do











                                                             
8216

         1       not apply.

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  And -- they do

         3       not apply, but so long as they end and there is

         4       otherwise the eligibility, because there's not a

         5       general eligibility here, it's specifically

         6       designed, and it's specifically designed so DHCR

         7       will make it simple and is directed to make it

         8       simple, then they would get it, but there is not

         9       an overlap.

        10                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you.

        11       Thank you, Senator.

        12                      Mr. President, I am not going to

        13       support this bill while the majority of my

        14       constituents do not live in apartments that

        15       receive tax abatement, 421-As and J.51s.

        16       However, I do have a good number of families,

        17       constituents of mine, that are living under

        18       those conditions.

        19                      I think that to think of a family

        20       of two children and a couple living in a 421 -

        21       in an apartment paying $2,000 a month thinking

        22       of them as wealthy, that -- that is a fantasy,

        23       because the -- through the taxes that are paid











                                                             
8217

         1       by all of us in New York City and in New York

         2       State for a family of four having an income of

         3        -- a gross income of $150,000 or even $200,000

         4       a year, the price of the 250, the decontrol, is

         5       not a lot of money when they have -- they send

         6       their kids to private schools or to public

         7       schools and they have a lot of expenses because

         8       living in New York City, which is the biggest

         9       city, is an expensive affair.

        10                      I think that, most of all, I'm

        11       very concerned and very worried that this bill

        12       affects eventually, even though we are providing

        13       four years them to have -- for the law to be in

        14       place, it will maintain a lot of people in New

        15       York City and in the suburbs in an eternal state

        16       of anxiety because at four years, maybe they're

        17       thinking, would they come for now to extract

        18       another pound of flesh, so that the security

        19       that many renters have, and the security that

        20       they have in terms of stabilized communities

        21       where they are participating and everything

        22       else, is being shattered.

        23                      I think that this is not the way











                                                             
8218

         1       to go and rights that have been earned by groups

         2       of people after a lot of fight and concern and

         3       activities, should be -- should stay like that.

         4       This would be my money, just like the Supreme

         5       Court, Mr. President, started with the -- with

         6       the relief in the last decision on the -- on the

         7       apportionment, and the active role of the senior

         8       rights bill.

         9                      Tenants in New York City and in

        10       the suburbs have earned through hard work a

        11       right to pay adequate rent, not to be exploited,

        12       not to be harassed, and they have earned that

        13       through their activity and through our

        14       consciences, all of us, our collective

        15       conscience here that they deserve better.

        16                      So, Mr. President, I know this

        17       bill has been accepted by the -- by the

        18       Assembly, by the -- by the Senate and by the -

        19       and by the Governor, but I think it's a bad

        20       bill.  It affects my constituents in a negative

        21       way and, therefore, I will not be supporting it

        22       and I hope that -- that my colleagues will have

        23       some second thoughts and not go with it.











                                                             
8219

         1                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      My tenants, the tenants in my

         6       district, of course, are very relieved tonight,

         7       will be hopefully if we get to this by midnight

         8       and I'm sure we will, that rent stabilization

         9       will continue for four more years, and they have

        10       absolutely no problem with the concept that

        11       those whose incomes are in excess of a quarter

        12       of a million dollars, whose rentals are 2,000 or

        13       more, would no longer be given the kind of

        14       protection previously provided to that

        15       category.

        16                      Senator Goodman outlined to you a

        17       scenario of events and historical perspective

        18       which was both articulate and erudite, but one

        19       area he overlooked inadvertently, and I have to

        20       add that to the equation and to the problems

        21       that we do envision for all the tenants in this

        22       city of New York and in the surrounding areas

        23       who will be affected by what we do tonight, and











                                                             
8220

         1       that is commonly referred to as the one-fortieth

         2       rule.

         3                      Now, for your clarification and

         4       understanding, by regulation, DHCR allows a

         5       landlord to take the improvements that he might

         6       provide in a given apartment that could be a

         7       stove or refrigerator, an appliance that has

         8       become defective and must be replaced, and take

         9       the value of that improvement, divide it by 40

        10       months and add that figure to the monthly rent,

        11       in an amount that would be permanent forever, an

        12       amount on top of which regulatory allowable

        13       increases would be applied.

        14                      As an example, it doesn't take

        15       very much to go in an apartment and replace

        16       $4,000 worth of appliances.  Divide that by 40

        17       and now that tenant will pay an additional $100

        18       per month rent, if you consider the fact that in

        19       the city of New York the average rentals are

        20       somewhere between 5- and $600, so we're talking

        21       about a 20 percent increase with that equation

        22       that I just gave you.

        23                      Now, that works by regulation; as











                                                             
8221

         1       of this moment, it is by regulation.  DHCR is in

         2       the process, was in the process of providing

         3       some degree of relief to tenants caught in that

         4       maze.  The relief was put back in the form of 72

         5       months, so the increase that I just discussed

         6       with you would be spread over a longer period of

         7       time and the impact on that monthly rent would

         8       be somewhat diminished.

         9                      That is reasonable, in my view,

        10       and should have been allowed to happen, but the

        11       bill that we are about to adopt recognizes the

        12       one-fortieth rule, thereby precluding what was

        13       to have happened by all indicators that we have

        14       at our disposal some time in October.

        15                      Now, I emphasize what I said at

        16       the very beginning, that applies to all 2

        17       million or more residents in apartments in the

        18       city of New York.  Granted, if someone is

        19       occupying an apartment and this was included and

        20       thank you, Senator Hannon, for doing that, that

        21       tenant can refuse to accept that improvement.

        22       Of course, if the refrigerator breaks or the

        23       stove isn't working, obviously such refusal











                                                             
8222

         1       would be academic.  But when that apartment

         2       becomes vacant, they can work out everything in

         3       that apartment, cabinets, stoves, refrigerators

         4       and divide that sum by 40 months and add that to

         5       the rent.

         6                      Remember, Senator told you about

         7       the horror stories back when we had vacancy

         8       decontrol.  I envision the same kinds of similar

         9       problems, not the decontrolled rent, but for the

        10       one-fortieth rent increase.  So while we are

        11       happy tonight that rent stabilization will

        12       continue for four years and that it will affect

        13       99 percent perhaps of the tenants in the city of

        14       New York with regard to the threshold, the

        15       monthly rent, we are unhappy by what is about to

        16       happen in regard to this one-fortieth rule.

        17                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        19       Markowitz.

        20                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Mr.

        21       President, Senator Hannon, I know that the

        22       approach you have reached is extremely

        23       fundamentalist where you are dealing with the











                                                             
8223

         1       tenants.

         2                      I have some remarks, the good

         3       news of why I think we're voting in the

         4       affirmative on this bill is that the great

         5       majority of the tenants in New York City and

         6       especially in the borough that I'm proud to

         7       serve in Brooklyn will be safeguarded for years

         8       because the great majority of the tenants

         9       are nowhere near the $2,000 threshold of rent,

        10       that's for sure, but tonight, I serve notice

        11       clearly on the tenant voters that what we have

        12       assumed in the past to be a secure safe rent

        13       regulation system has been opened up by our vote

        14       tonight.  It's been opened up and, if this vote

        15       tonight serves the tenants to recognize that

        16       they must organize, organize, that they confront

        17       this issue in the years to come, then perhaps

        18       there is something good that happened to

        19       revitalize the tenant movement in New York

        20       City.

        21                      Secondly, as to the rule itself,

        22       I'm concerned that -- not with the multi

        23       millionaires that you want to remove from -











                                                             
8224

         1       from the rent regulation system, although the

         2       multi-millionaire or the person who earns over

         3       $250,000 who's able to convince me that they

         4       live in an apartment under $2,000, and make no

         5       mistake there are quite a few of those people,

         6       we're not going to cut them off, but we also see

         7       under the $2,000 rent that could open the door,

         8       and my concern is not with them at all, but I do

         9       have concern that once this door is open, we're

        10       all concerned about, in fact, once the door is

        11       open, it will be our job to make sure that this

        12       door doesn't open up any wider in the future.

        13                      I think that there are things

        14       that could have been done that would have been

        15       rationally and reasonably done, good things that

        16       could have been done.

        17                      Number one, what is the

        18       relationship, Senator Hannon, between rent and

        19       services? And once you open up your mind and

        20       your intellectual ability, because I know you

        21       have it, you will recognize that as you look

        22       into the issue more about it, you will discover

        23       that higher rent does not bring better services,











                                                             
8225

         1       that there are landlords that have rent rolls

         2       that are not as high as you would maybe like

         3       them to have and yet keep their buildings in

         4       wonderful shape.  And how about the others in

         5       New York that have very high rents and keep

         6       their buildings horribly because they want to

         7       get every penny they can with no interest in

         8       providing decent services?

         9                      What about the tenants in New

        10       York City, Senator Hannon, whose incomes are

        11       moderate and who are paying more than a third of

        12       it for rent?  What do we do with those people

        13       that are far more, far more in the City and

        14       state, than those that are in that upper

        15       $250,000 bracket?

        16                      There's nothing in this bill,

        17       Senator Hannon, that addresses their concerns or

        18       addresses the concerns of the deteriorated state

        19       of services of apartments in New York City.

        20                      I would hope in the last part of

        21       your bill that calls at the end of two years for

        22       the study, that we can look into these issues

        23       and other issues, for instance, the small land











                                                             
8226

         1       lords, the small landlord who, in many cases,

         2       has a legitimate beef; landlords -- small land

         3       lords who are not sophisticated or educated,

         4       that can use some help in buying the necessi

         5       ties, and in maintaining their property, small

         6       landlords, that the state of New York perhaps

         7       should put in something insofar as helping them

         8       with the cost of heating their building, maybe

         9       providing credit for redoing their boiler

        10       systems to make their buildings more energy

        11       efficient.

        12                      These are areas that we can help

        13       the small owner in New York who, in turn, maybe

        14       would not be adversely affecting at all the

        15       tenants in the city of New York.  Those are the

        16       things that I hope that we will move ahead

        17       towards the future, but for tonight, this is a

        18       bill that confronts us, Senator Hannon.

        19                      Before I complete my comments, I

        20       just want to say something else.  I'm very

        21       concerned, Senator Hannon, and this doesn't only

        22       affect you, it affects the majority of all the

        23       Democrats and Republicans, the majority wish to











                                                             
8227

         1       maintain the property value and today in New

         2       York in order to maintain the majority status,

         3       we need money.  In order to even be elected

         4       here, we need money and, therefore, very often

         5       we vote on items that may be in our best inter

         6       est, something else, but because of qualifica

         7       tions and the fact that we have a philosophy

         8       that we wish to maintain that we have to be

         9       concerned with the campaign financing.

        10                      It's my hope, as I look around

        11       this chamber and listen to some of the members

        12       who are Republicans, for instance, in this house

        13       who don't represent one rent-controlled

        14       apartment, not one rent-stabilized apartment in

        15       this district, yes, have such a feeling about

        16       the future of tenants in New York City.  It's my

        17       hope, Senator Hannon, for the betterment of

        18       government, Republican and Democrats, liberal

        19       and conservative, tenant, homeowner, landlord,

        20       that soon, very soon the day will come that we

        21       eliminate in our system of government private

        22       contributions to political campaigns and make

        23       all campaigns in this state publicly funded.  In











                                                             
8228

         1       this way, all of us would be free to vote what

         2       we know is right.

         3                      Thank you very much, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      I'm very conscious of the time in

         9       that, if we keep going on, that what we're about

        10       to do will be unnecessary.

        11                      I just want to observe that this

        12       system of our government really does work.  I

        13       have a debate packet here that I think goes back

        14       six or seven years.  I first introduced a luxury

        15       apartment decontrol bill six or seven years

        16       ago.  I think we passed it in this chamber by 31

        17       votes or 32 votes every year, after hours of

        18       debate.

        19                      But, Senator Markowitz, and my

        20       colleagues, let's recognize the debate for years

        21       has not been simply over rent control; it's over

        22       luxury apartment rent decontrol.  There have

        23       been editorials that I will not read, but I will











                                                             
8229

         1       relate to you, by every major newspaper in this

         2       state, and especially in New York City.  Top

         3       flight rent deal of the rich and famous.

         4                      That's what this debate has been

         5       about for the last several years.  So it's nice

         6       to talk about rent control for the poor, but I

         7       will state again that the poor have been

         8       subsidizing the rich for a lot of years in this

         9       state and tonight is a very happy occasion for

        10       all of the people of this state, all of the

        11       people, because it will prove that the free

        12       enterprise system, the private sector, means

        13       something to the people of this state.

        14                      So I want to commend our chair,

        15       Senator Hannon, all of the people that have

        16       worked so diligently, the Governor, the

        17       Assembly, to get us to this moment.  I think

        18       it's a happy moment for all of the people of

        19       this state and I hope all of us can join in

        20       unanimously approving this legislation.

        21                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        22                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Johnson.











                                                             
8230

         1                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         2       I did want to speak on this because, first, I'd

         3       like to congratulate Senator Hannon on the job

         4       he's done.  It has established the principle at

         5       least, whether it's going to affect a great

         6       number of units is questionable, but the

         7       principle that the majority of the working

         8       people in this state should not be called upon

         9       any more to subsidize the number of

        10       millionaires, of people I'm sure whose assets

        11       are in the millions, who earn a quarter of a

        12       million or more each year.

        13                      I mean people that we're

        14       protecting under this law essentially could buy

        15       two of the typical houses in my district every

        16       year with their income.  I mean it's obscene to

        17       think that we should be protecting these people

        18       so that they can live in a life style that they

        19       like to enjoy but don't want to spend their own

        20       money for it.  Everyone else in this state who

        21       lives in a house or whatever or a trailer on the

        22       side of a hill or a city apartment, legal or

        23       illegal, they are living in places which they











                                                             
8231

         1       can afford and they're not asking other people

         2       in this state or the city of New York to

         3       subsidize their housing facilities.

         4                      This bill doesn't do anything

         5       about the real problem, which is the housing

         6       abandonment in New York City.  30-, 40,000 rooms

         7       abandoned year after year after year taken over

         8       by the world's largest slumlord and probably

         9       managed worse than the landlords did before.

        10       It's really obscene when you think about it that

        11       the great city of New York, built by private

        12       enterprise, by individuals, putting their own

        13       money, their own labor, their own sweat in it,

        14       to create housing facilities from which they

        15       could hopefully make a living and support their

        16       family and maybe leave to their family, are

        17       being taken over and condemned by this terrible

        18       process of rent control and the housing court

        19       which is so corrupt that they really have to

        20       destroy housing units by denying the landlord

        21       the opportunity to manage his own property, and

        22       the government has to manage it for them; and

        23       the government, of course, brings them to the











                                                             
8232

         1       point of bankruptcy.

         2                      You know, I -- I don't know what

         3       else to say, but that the only way to really

         4       make reforms is to rejuvenate, revitalize and

         5       give permission to individuals to create wealth

         6       and to profit by that wealth and not to have the

         7       government intrude in the process and take away

         8       their wealth.

         9                      Just as the great majority of the

        10       housing units in the city were built by private

        11       enterprise and individuals over the last hundred

        12       years, they will do it again if we give them a

        13       break.  Start off by scrapping rent control,

        14       tell us the property condemned in the last ten

        15       years we'll give you back your property for a

        16       reasonable price; you can charge whatever the

        17       market is, you can get more, you fix it up you

        18       can net less.  The housing court won't be taking

        19       away your properties.  I think you would have a

        20       great revival in the city of New York and just

        21       as a point, Senator Markowitz said something to

        22       the fact you don't have rent control, you have

        23       rent regulation, you have areas that you are











                                                             
8233

         1       talking about.

         2                      The fact is, Senator Markowitz,

         3       that ten years ago or more, we got time, ten

         4       more years ago, when rent regulation, rent

         5       stabilization was extended to Nassau County, I

         6       personally kept it out of Suffolk County because

         7       I believe what I say, let people create housing,

         8       it will be available and competition will set

         9       the market rent.

        10                      What do you think happened,

        11       Senator Markowitz? When Nassau County went to

        12       rent stabilization all the landlords quickly

        13       condo-ed their buildings, peddled them out

        14       because they didn't want to be under rent

        15       control.  In Suffolk County, more housing was

        16       built, and I almost regretted it.  We have a lot

        17       more cliff dwellers in Suffolk County, which we

        18       can do without.  But they're there, they're

        19       available, the landlords are providing free

        20       rent, two three months free rent if you sell a

        21       lease.

        22                      They provide a cornucopia of

        23       goods and services if you let it work.  So let's











                                                             
8234

         1       let it work, let's talk after 12:00 o'clock,

         2       watch this whole thing go down.  Watch the

         3       economic revival of New York City.  It will be a

         4       great thing to behold.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

         6                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I just want to

         7       say that this bill has got to be hand-carried

         8       over to the Assembly, hand-carried down to the

         9       Governor and signed by midnight and all these

        10       wonderful things are going to be for nought

        11       unless we read the last section pretty soon.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        13       Stavisky.

        14                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  If I may,

        15       after you call the last section of the bill, I

        16       would like to rise to explain my vote and -

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Hannon.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  There are a

        19       great number of problems that remain.

        20                      Senator Markowitz talked about

        21       some of the loopholes that are still there, the

        22       quarter of a million dollar a year person who

        23       can still be in a unit under $2,000.  That was











                                                             
8235

         1       part of the compromise that was made with the

         2       Assembly but that debate will continue because

         3       this bill only has the achievement of the rent

         4       level once, so we will leave these glaring

         5       examples out there, and I guess if we continue

         6       this debate, and I mean the generic debate

         7       between landlord and tenant, we will never

         8       properly address the real housing needs of New

         9       York City and, if it's a housing need of New

        10       York City, it's one for all of the suburbs which

        11       affected so many of us here.

        12                      So I start out, I conclude where

        13       I started out by saying this is the middle of

        14       the road approach.  This was the compromise and

        15       the things that people complained about were

        16       something when we finally got negotiated were

        17       given up for other things.  I would suggest that

        18       it's well worthy of an affirmative vote, and I

        19       would urge everybody in this chamber to do so

        20       and I couldn't close though without thanking

        21       counsel Angelo Mangia, senior analyst McGarry

        22       for what has to be 20 hours a day for the last

        23       22 days in negotiating this bill.











                                                             
8236

         1                      Thank you.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         3       section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         9       Stavisky.

        10                      SENATOR STAVISKY: To explain my

        11       vote.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  And excuse me,

        13       Senator Stavisky.  It would be helpful if the

        14       negatives would raise their hand during this

        15       period of time.

        16                      Senator Stavisky.

        17                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  We could have

        18       done a number of things.  We could have made the

        19       extension of rent regulations permanent and we

        20       did not do that.  We could have provided for a

        21       four-year extension, and we are doing that.  But

        22       we're doing that at a dreadful price, which

        23       severely undermines the integrity of tenant











                                                             
8237

         1       protection.

         2                      I think this is the first step

         3       towards statewide vacancy decontrol for those -

         4       those properties that presently give tenants

         5       protection.  We're doing it a little at a time.

         6       We're doing it now under the pretext that we're

         7       decontrolling luxury apartments, but it's either

         8       or.

         9                      Nobody would object to the

        10       decontrol of apartments of people who were

        11       earning a quarter of a million a year or more.

        12       Nobody is arguing that, but there are people

        13       living in apartments where the rents have risen

        14       and where there are multiple individuals sharing

        15       the rents and their incomes are not a quarter of

        16       a million.  We are also gutting the legislative

        17       procedure with a $5 penalty for a landlord

        18       failing to register the apartment in a timely

        19       manner.  I think that's obscene.

        20                      We're doing other things with

        21       this legislation.  We're making it possible.

        22       I'm explaining my vote, Senator Hannon.  I do

        23       not -











                                                             
8238

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Two minutes,

         2       only in the interest of meeting the 12:00

         3       midnight deadline.

         4                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I will do

         5       that.  For the reasons that Senator Padavan

         6       cited, the ability to put into statute,

         7       proceedings for improvement increases that are

         8       now on the verge of being negotiated by the

         9       regulatory agency is a mistake and then to

        10       assume that we're going to get an honest count

        11       on whether people really do exceed the maximum

        12       allowable income, I must tell you, we have this

        13       in other types of housing and there has not been

        14        -- there has not been -

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The chair will

        16       advise -

        17                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I am coming to

        18       a conclusion.  There has not always been a

        19       timely response from the agencies involved.  For

        20       these reasons, because I don't want to see rent

        21       regulations unravel in this piecemeal manner, I

        22       think that we should reflect carefully and I

        23       wish to be recorded in the negative.











                                                             
8239

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stavisky

         2       votes no.

         3                      Senator DeFrancisco is recognized

         4       to explain his vote.

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  To explain

         6       my vote.

         7                      I know everybody is anxious, but

         8       some people are voting no this evening who spoke

         9       for at least 45 minutes on this issue, and I

        10       think I can have a minute to explain my vote.

        11                      I've been amazed at the debate on

        12       this particular bill.  The concept that the rich

        13       landlords are being protected by this side of

        14       the house is absolutely unbelieveable to me when

        15       all that's happening is those who have an

        16       adjusted gross income of more than $250,000 no

        17       longer get a $2,000 a month apartment.  It's

        18       unbelieveable to me that we would be accused of

        19       being the side of the house that are protecting

        20       the rich.

        21                      This concept of people speaking

        22       in the galleries and singing of the rising

        23       rents, but I just want to make one thing clear,











                                                             
8240

         1       no one is going to be hurt by this bill other

         2       than those who should be hurt by this bill and

         3       lastly, those that are worried about this

         4       $250,000 adjusted gross income, don't worry

         5       because the income of your maids will not be

         6       included in your $250,000 computation, so to

         7       suggest that we did anything to hurt the people

         8       who truly need rent control is ridiculous and

         9       those who are voting no in protest of this bill

        10       are truly voting no in honesty to protect those

        11       individuals who have incomes above $250,000,

        12       which is ludicrous.

        13                      I vote yes.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        15       DeFrancisco votes yes.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Results.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  The clerk will

        18       call -- Secretary will call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 1668 are

        22       Senators Goodman, Halperin, Leichter, Mendez,

        23       Ohrenstein, Padavan and Stavisky.  Ayes 51, nays











                                                             
8241

         1       7.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       could we return to reports of standing

         7       committees.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The chair will

         9       observe that the Senate has been in excellent

        10       order tonight for an evening like this, and I

        11       hope that it continues because it will expedite

        12       the proceedings and allow each Senator to be

        13       heard.  We will return to reports of standing

        14       committees.  The Secretary will read.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        16       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        17       following nomination:  Director of Rural

        18       Affairs, June F. O'Neill of Canton.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Wright.

        20                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        21       rise in support of the nomination of and

        22       confirmation of June O'Neill as the Director of

        23       Rural Affairs this evening.











                                                             
8242

         1                      First, it's my pleasure to

         2       acknowledge that June is a resident of my

         3       district residing in Canton in rural northern

         4       New York.  Equally important, June has served in

         5       excess of the last five years in the office of

         6       Rural Affairs, first having served as its deputy

         7       director and most recently serving as the acting

         8       director since 1990.

         9                      In my capacity previously in

        10       local government, I've had the occasion to work

        11       in those rural counties and to have the

        12       opportunity to work with June O'Neill

        13       representing the interests of the rural areas,

        14       and I can attest to the fact that she has proven

        15       to be a very effective advocate on behalf of the

        16       rural constituency and rural communities of this

        17       state.

        18                      I look forward with great

        19       pleasure to June serving as the next Director of

        20       Rural Affairs, and I am sure that she will serve

        21       the people of rural New York as well as all of

        22       New York State well in that capacity.

        23                      It's a privilege to support and











                                                             
8243

         1       pursue the nomination this evening and equally

         2       to personally extend my congratulations and best

         3       wishes to June, and I look forward to working

         4       with her during her tenure.

         5                      Thank you.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

         8       also want to congratulate June O'Neill.  We've

         9       had an excellent working relationship between

        10       the Commission on Rural Resources and her office

        11       since the time that she's been head of it, and I

        12       look forward to continuing that fine

        13       relationship.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Sears.

        15                      SENATOR SEARS:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      I, too, would like to second the

        18       nomination of June O'Neill to be the

        19       Commissioner or the Director of Rural Affairs.

        20       In the short time that I've been in the Senate,

        21       June, as you know, you and I have a great

        22       relationship, but I've certainly enjoyed working

        23       with you, and I thank you for all the help











                                                             
8244

         1       you've been to me and my office, and I certainly

         2       look forward to continuing our good relationship

         3       and I know that you will continue to do just a

         4       fine job.

         5                      Congratulations, and it's my

         6       pleasure to second the nomination.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

         8       occurs -

         9                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        11       Stafford.

        12                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  As the nominee

        13       who has served at length already in the office

        14       mentioned and pointed out today, she is a rural

        15       resident, and that's her own decision.  She

        16       mentioned she went to school in New York City,

        17       also Long Island, now lives in St. Lawrence

        18       County.  I assure you St. Lawrence County is not

        19       an urban area.  It's a rural area and that we're

        20       very pleased to support June for this office.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        22       on the confirmation of the nominee.  All those

        23       in favor, say aye.











                                                             
8245

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The ayes have it.  June F.

         5       O'Neill of Canton, as Director of Rural

         6       Affairs.  Congratulations.

         7                      (Applause)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Also the

         9       nomination of Frank N. Cuomo of Snyder as member

        10       of the State Liquor Authority.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        12       on the confirmation of the nominee.

        13                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        16       Markowitz.

        17                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Yes, I just

        18       certainly want to commend Mr. Cuomo on his

        19       reappointment, but also to really explain that I

        20       hope that next legislative session that the

        21       Senate will begin a thorough review of the SLA,

        22       its practices, whether or not we have in terms

        23       of budget, slashed them so badly that they're











                                                             
8246

         1       unable to fill their mandate currently and

         2       increasingly so, especially in New York City

         3       with the problems of after hour clubs, illegal

         4       sales of liquor, drug activities going on in

         5       liquor establishments and some practices of the

         6       SLA, which I think the sunshine, the light, has

         7       to come in.

         8                      And so, Mr. Cuomo, I wish you

         9       well on your reappointment, and I hope that you

        10       will lend assistance to those of us in the

        11       Senate that are truly concerned that the SLA

        12       receive its full funding as it had years ago and

        13       that its mandate which increases day by day

        14       could be met a hundred percent

        15       enthusiastically.

        16                      Thank you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Sheffer.

        18                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Mr. President,

        19       I'm delighted to urge the reappointment of Frank

        20       Cuomo.  He is a person in which our community

        21       takes great pride, not only for his work on the

        22       board, but for many decades of work in the

        23       community, and it's with great pleasure and











                                                             
8247

         1       pride that I urge his renomination, his

         2       confirmation, to the Senate.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         4       on the confirmation of the nominee.  All those

         5       in favor, say aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Opposed, nay.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The ayes have

        10       it.  The nominee is confirmed.

        11                      Senator Present.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  In behalf of

        13       Senator Marchi and Senator Stafford, I'd like to

        14       announce an immediate meeting of the Judiciary

        15       Committee in Room 332.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Immediate meeting

        17       of the Judiciary Committee.  And congratulations

        18       Frank N. Cuomo of Snyder for your reappointment

        19       to the State Liquor Authority.

        20                      Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  The nomination of

        22       Henry P. Flinter of Rockville Centre as

        23       Inspector General of the office of the











                                                             
8248

         1       Metropolitan Transportation Authority Inspector

         2       General.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         4       on the confirmation of the nominee.  All those

         5       in favor, say aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Opposed nay.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      The ayes have it.  Henry P.

        10       Flinter of Rockville Centre, Inspector General

        11       of the office of Inspector General, Metropolitan

        12       Transportation Authority.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        14       state Commission of Correction, Edmund B. Wutzer

        15       of Loudonville.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nolan.

        17                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Like to move the

        18       nomination of Ed Wutzer, constituent of mine,

        19       long-time friend.  Ed has been over 33 years in

        20       the field of probation, correction and from

        21       1985, he has been the Director of New York State

        22       Division of Probation and Correctional

        23       Alternatives.  Ed Wutzer is certainly an out











                                                             
8249

         1       standing nominee by the Governor to be a member

         2       of the state Commission of Corrections, has wide

         3       experience in the field of Penal Law, probation,

         4       makes him one of the really truly best

         5       appointments that I've seen in a long time in

         6       terms of this whole area.

         7                      So it's with a great deal of

         8       pleasure that I move the nomination of a truly

         9       outstanding public official, a resident of

        10       Albany County, Ed Wutzer.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        12       on the confirmation of the nominee.  All those

        13       in favor say aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed nay.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      The ayes have it.  The nominee is

        18       confirmed, Edmund B. Wutzer of Loudonville, a

        19       member of the state Commission on Corrections.

        20       Congratulations.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        22       state Board of Parole Maria R. Buchanan, of

        23       Staten Island; S. Earl Eichelberger, of











                                                             
8250

         1       Guilderland; Israel Gonzalez, of Rochester;

         2       George S. King of Clifton Park; Julian P. Rose,

         3       of Armonk, and Anthony K. Umina, of Delmar.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         5        -- Senator Mendez.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

         7       really want to move the renomination of Carmen

         8       Buchanan and Mr. Gonzalez for the Parole Board.

         9       Carmen Buchanan has been serving in the Parole

        10       Board since 1981.  She's done an outstanding job

        11       and she will keep doing that once all of us make

        12       certain through our votes that she's confirmed.

        13                      Mr. Gonzalez has been serving

        14       just for a while, but he has an extensive career

        15       in -- in -- in criminal justice and he is

        16       understandable of the problems and the tasks to

        17       be done in the Parole Board, so I move also his

        18       nomination.

        19                      Thank you.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nolan.

        21                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Like to second

        22       the nomination of the -- of the people who were

        23       just nominated and particularly like to











                                                             
8251

         1       congratulate S. Earl Eichelberger, Anthony

         2       Umina, who are residents of Albany County, and

         3       George King, who is almost a resident of Albany

         4       County, in Clifton Park, and who used to be a

         5       resident of Albany County and who is a long

         6       time friend.

         7                      Certainly a great honor, locally

         8       here to have three such distinguished citizens

         9       of the Capital District to be named as members

        10       of the state Board of Parole, and I'm very happy

        11       to second their nominations.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        13       Oppenheimer.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Well, I

        15       only have one person that I would single out.  I

        16       don't have three from my area, but I think my

        17       one has probably more years in the field than

        18       perhaps any other three, and I'm speaking of

        19       Julian Rose, who comes from Armonk which is in

        20       my new area, and for him I think about 37, maybe

        21       38 years have been spent in the field of parole

        22       work, and I think that certainly shows the

        23       dedication to the field.  I note also that we











                                                             
8252

         1       have master's from the same alma mater, Columbia

         2       University, and I wish you well in the

         3       continuation of the work that you've been doing

         4       so well for these many years.

         5                      I second your nomination.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

         7       occurs on the confirmation of the nominees.  All

         8       those in favor, say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        13       are confirmed.  Congratulations to the members

        14       of the state Board of Parole.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        16       Public Employment Relations Board, Pauline

        17       Kinsella, of Niskayuna.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

        19                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      It's with a great deal of

        22       pleasure that I nominate Pauline Kinsella of

        23       Niskayuna, my constituent and friend.  Pauline











                                                             
8253

         1       is truly a remarkable person, a distinguished

         2       lawyer, mother of five children, graduate of

         3       Brown University and Boston University School of

         4       Law, member of the Massachusetts bar, New York

         5       bar, also U. S. District Courts and the U. S.

         6       Court of Appeals.

         7                      Pauline serves as a member of the

         8        -- this is a reappointment -- a member of the

         9       Public Employees Relations Board which is so

        10       terribly important to so many members of this

        11       chamber.  She's done an outstanding job.  She is

        12       also married to a very fine lawyer by the name

        13       of Donald Kinsella, who is also a good friend

        14       and has had a distinguished career in the legal

        15       profession.

        16                      Pauline is truly "wonder woman"

        17       and totally impressed the Finance Committee, and

        18       I apologize for not being there but I had a bill

        19       on the floor that was due to expire also, but

        20       it's with pleasure that I move the nomination of

        21       Pauline Kinsella.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        23       on the confirmation of the nominee.  All those











                                                             
8254

         1       in favor, say aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Opposed nay.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      The ayes have it.  The nominee is

         6       confirmed.  Congratulations to Pauline Kinsella,

         7       of Niskayuna, as a reappointment as a member of

         8       the Public Employment Relations Board.

         9                      (Applause)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        11       Advisory Council on Agriculture, Frances M.

        12       Moore, of Malone, and Charles E. Wille, of

        13       Montgomery.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        15       on the confirmations of the nominees.  All those

        16       in favor, say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        21       are confirmed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the New

        23       York Job Development Authority, Jeffrey M.











                                                             
8255

         1       Bernbach, of Scarsdale, and William E. Towne, of

         2       Gloversville.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         4       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

         5       in favor, say aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Opposed nay.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        10       are confirmed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        12       Dormitory Authority, Laura Bongiovanni, of

        13       Syracuse, and William D. Hassett, Jr., of New

        14       York City.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        16       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

        17       in favor say aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        22       are confirmed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the











                                                             
8256

         1       state Council on the Arts: Lo-Yi Chan, of New

         2       York City; Ruth W. Houghton, of New York City;

         3       Peggy L. Kerr, Esq., of New York City; Richard

         4       W. McGrath, of Rochester; Judith O. Rubin, of

         5       New York City; Hale Smith, of Freeport.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         7       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

         8       in favor, say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        13       are confirmed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        15       Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, James

        16       G. Hellmuth, of Lawrence; George D. O'Neill, of

        17       Oyster Bay; Melvin Schweitzer, Esq., of

        18       Manhattan.

        19                      SENATOR LACK:  Mr. President.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        21                      SENATOR LACK:  Yeah, Mr.

        22       President.  I rise briefly to second the

        23       nomination of Melvin Schweitzer as a member of











                                                             
8257

         1       the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

         2       Mel Schweitzer, who was here earlier this

         3       evening, is a 25-year standing friend of mine.

         4       We graduated from law school together.  I went

         5       on to the Senate; he went on to become one of

         6       the senior partners of the law firm of Rogers &

         7       Wells in Manhattan.

         8                      He has distinguished himself as a

         9       very well known bond counsel for the last 20-odd

        10       years.  He is currently underwriter's counsel

        11       for all negotiated sales of bonds and notes for

        12       the city of New York.  He has served in the same

        13       capacity for the cities of Buffalo and Yonkers

        14       in New York State.  He has worked on financing

        15       of airports, toll roads, resource recovery

        16       facilities, colleges, universities, student

        17       loans, health facilities, economic development

        18       projects and a whole host of others, not only in

        19       the United States but indeed around the world.

        20                      He is an outstanding and more

        21       than qualified appointee, and I congratulate the

        22       governor for appointing him to the Port

        23       Authority of the states of New York and New











                                                             
8258

         1       Jersey.  He, in that fiduciary responsibility as

         2       a member of the board, will be able to have

         3       complete understanding of the matters that, and

         4       the very weighty matters that come before the

         5       Port Authority.

         6                      I wish Mel a lot of luck in a

         7       position that pays him no compensation, but for

         8       which he is very aptly serving all the people of

         9       the state of New York.

        10                      I move the nomination, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        13       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

        14       in favor, say aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        19       are confirmed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the New

        21       York State Thruway Authority, Nancy E. Carey, of

        22       Albany, and William C. Warren III, of

        23       Pittsford.











                                                             
8259

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

         2       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

         3       in favor, say aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nolan.

         6                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Yes, just like to

         7        -- I don't see Nancy up there, but I'd like to

         8       congratulate the Governor on naming Nancy Carey,

         9       daughter of our former distinguished Governor

        10       Hugh Carey, as a member of the New York State

        11       Thruway Authority.

        12                      She certainly is an outstanding

        13       person.  She, I know, will do a great job in

        14       helping run that and give direction to that

        15       august body; so it's with a great deal of

        16       pleasure that I move the nomination of Nancy E.

        17       Carey.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        19       Nozzolio.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      Mr. President, my colleagues, I

        23       rise to second the nomination of William Warren











                                                             
8260

         1       as member of the Thruway Authority.  Mr. Warren,

         2       from the Rochester area, has been a stellar

         3       contributor to the issues of transportation

         4       across New York.  He has served as a president

         5       of the Monroe County Automobile Association, as

         6       a director of Genesee/Finger Lakes Highway Users

         7       Council, has been a director of the statewide

         8       AAA.  He has been very active in the community.

         9                      I'm confident that he will

        10       provide a tremendous input to the newly revised

        11       and renovated Thruway Authority.

        12                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Question occurs

        14       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

        15       in favor will say aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        20       are confirmed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

        22       State Racing Commission, Robert W. Lee, of

        23       Gansevoort.











                                                             
8261

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Wait, we have a

         2       comment on this one.  We are going to go through

         3       all the rest of the nominees and anyone who

         4       wishes to speak on any of them can at the end of

         5       the list.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Member of the

         7       Long Island State Park Recreation and Historic

         8       Preservation Commission, Edward P. Kane, of

         9       Rockville Centre;

        10                      Member of the State Board for

        11       Historic Preservation, Mary B. Hotaling, of

        12       Saranac Lake;

        13                      Member of the Industrial Board of

        14       Appeals, Miguel A. Gonzalez, of Brooklyn;

        15                      Member of the Board of Trustees

        16       of the State University of New York, Richard A.

        17       Berman, of Rye;

        18                      Member of the New York State

        19       Hospital Review and Planning Council, Deborah E.

        20       Bell, of New York City; Pamela S. Brier, of New

        21       York City; Robert L. Popper, of Armonk; Anthony

        22       Tartaglia, M.D., of Delmar, Melvin H. Worth,

        23       Jr., M.D., of Staten Island;











                                                             
8262

         1                      Member of the New York State

         2       Employment Relations Board, George C. Sinnott,

         3       of Baldwin;

         4                      Member of the New York State

         5       Olympic Regional Development Authority, Edwin H.

         6       Weibrecht, of Lake Placid and William C.

         7       Ughetta, of Corning;

         8                      Trustee of the Power Authority of

         9       the state of New York, Linda P. Duch, of

        10       Williamsville; Thomas R. Frey, of Rochester, and

        11       Robert Waldbauer, of Patchogue;

        12                      Member and chairman of the Empire

        13       State Plaza Art Commission, Barnabas McHenry, of

        14       New York City;

        15                      Member of the Empire State Plaza

        16       Art Commission, Jonathan Dale Farkas, of New

        17       York City;

        18                      Member of the Adirondack Park

        19       Agency, Richard Lefebvre, of Caroga Lake; John

        20       K. Ryder, of Diamond Point; Barbara Sweet, of

        21       Newcomb;

        22                      Banking member of the State

        23       Banking Board, Gonzalo De Las Heras, of New York











                                                             
8263

         1       City; Salvatore Marranca, of Little Valley;

         2                      New York State Public

         3       Transportation Safety Board, Walter George Rich,

         4       of Cooperstown;

         5                      Member of the New York State

         6       Housing Finance Agency, Jerome M. Becker, Esq.,

         7       of New York City;

         8                      Director of the state of New York

         9       Mortgage Agency, Jerome M. Becker, of New York

        10       City;

        11                      Member, Ogdensburg Bridge and

        12       Port Authority, Frederick J. Carter, of

        13       Ogdensburg; William R. Greene, of Waddington,

        14       and Patrick E. Hackett, Sr., of Ogdensburg;

        15                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        16       of the Binghamton Psychiatric Centerr, Joseph G.

        17       Slavik, of Endwell;

        18                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        19       of the Bronx Children's Psychiatric Center,

        20       Barbara C. May, of the Bronx; William Moore, of

        21       the Bronx, and Harriet Parness, of the Bronx;

        22                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        23       of the Capital District Psychiatric Center,











                                                             
8264

         1       Kenneth Bitter, of Glenmont;

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center, Joel A.

         4       Miele, of Howard Beach;

         5                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         6       of the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, Maralyn

         7       Lowenheim, of Brooklyn;

         8                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         9       of the Kings Park Psychiatric Center, Harriet

        10       Loshin, of Melville;

        11                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        12       of the Manhattan Psychiatric Center, Orville N.

        13       Greene, of New York City;

        14                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        15       of the Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center,

        16       Josephine M. Alexander, of Whitesboro;

        17                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        18       of the Queens Children's Psychiatric Center,

        19       Hortensia R. Stoyan, of Bayside;

        20                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        21       of the Richard H. Hutchings Psychiatric Center,

        22       Nancy E. Kroot, of Cortland;

        23                      Member of the Board of Visitors











                                                             
8265

         1       of the Sagamore Children's Psychiatric Center,

         2       Grace E. Clench, of Brentwood;

         3                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         4       of the Bernard M. Fineson Developmental

         5       Disabilities Services Office, Ben Hickman, of

         6       Laurelton;

         7                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         8       of the Bronx Developmental Disabilities Services

         9       Office, Al Agovino, of the Bronx, and Rita J.

        10       Haahn, of the Bronx;

        11                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        12       of the Brooklyn Developmental Disabilities

        13       Services Office, Ramon Raimundi, of Brooklyn;

        14                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        15       of the Long Island Developmental Center at

        16       Melville, James Stringfield, of North Babylon;

        17                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        18       of the Manhattan Developmental Disabilities

        19       Services Office, Dawn Marie Hazelhurst, of New

        20       York City;

        21                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        22       of the Monroe Developmental Disabilities

        23       Services Office, Nelli Louise Mitchell, M.D., of











                                                             
8266

         1       Rochester;

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the Oswald D. Heck Developmental Disabilities

         4       Services Office, Marshall G. Jones, Ph.D., of

         5       Scotia; Linda S. Rippel, of Scotia;

         6                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         7       of the Westchester Developmental Disabilities

         8       Services Office, Thomas J. Scott, of Goldens

         9       Bridge;

        10                      Public member of the Banking

        11       Board, Lynn Hecht Schafran, Esq., of New York

        12       City;.

        13                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        14       of the New York Convention Center Operating

        15       corporation, Gary K. Levi, of Port Washington;

        16                      Battery Park City Authority,

        17       Herbert Bernette Evans, of Yonkers.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

        19                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

        20       could not be a more ideal nominee for the state

        21       Public Transportation Safety Board than Walter

        22       Rich.  Walter is a pretty unique individual

        23       because at the time when people in this country











                                                             
8267

         1       were despairing of the future of railroads,

         2       Walter indeed went in hands-on and got into the

         3       railroad business, and is the only person I ever

         4       knew or ever heard of who founded a railroad.

         5       And indeed he has a very successful railroad, a

         6       couple of them.

         7                      In 1971 he founded the Delaware

         8       Otsego Railroad Corporation and in 1981 he

         9       founded a subsidiary, the New York, Susquehanna

        10       and Western Railway.  The New York, Susquehanna

        11       and Western actually operated the Delaware and

        12       Hudson Railway under emergency orders from the

        13       Interstate Commerce Commission for about 18

        14       months.

        15                      So Walter had quite a

        16       responsibility even in this community at that

        17       time until that property was sold to the

        18       Canadian Pacific.

        19                      He is a member and past chairman

        20       of the Eastern General Managers' Association,

        21       where he worked to improve rail safety,

        22       organizing numerous industry seminars on the

        23       subject.  In 1972, he was named by











                                                             
8268

         1       Transportation Commissioner Parker to a

         2       committee to re-evaluate the Public Service Law

         3       as it applied to railroads.

         4                      He and his wife Karen and their

         5       two children, Stephanie and Derrick, reside at

         6       One Lake Street, Cooperstown.  Unfortunately,

         7       Senator Seward took that part of the district

         8       from me a few years ago so they're no longer my

         9       direct constituents, but they are people whom

        10       I've known, both Walter and his parents, for a

        11       good number of years.

        12                      Very pleased that the Riches are

        13       with us today, and that I'm able to be here to

        14       be a part of the appointment of what I think is

        15       a very, very well qualified individual to this

        16       board.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May I interrupt

        19       this proceeding and announce that there will be

        20       an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        21       Room 332.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Immediate meeting

        23       of the rules Committee.











                                                             
8269

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         3       Stafford.

         4                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Senator Cook

         5       stood up before me, and he said it much better

         6       than I can say it, so I'll just second what's

         7       been said so well, but I would just like to

         8       emphasize that Walter Rich kept the New York -

         9       excuse me, I was going to say New York Central,

        10       Walter -- kept the D. & H. going for over a year

        11       when it was going to be shut down, which would

        12       have been a complete disaster for our paper

        13       mills and for many other services including -

        14       including AMTRAK, and I believe I'm correct here

        15       and Walter can correct me afterward, but he

        16       really got his interest in railroads when he was

        17       working here in the Legislature.  That was a

        18       long time ago, and then he became, you know,

        19       very, very successful and, as has been stated,

        20       there could be no better appointment, and I

        21       would mention that and point out that Walter and

        22       Karen are sitting over at the right in the

        23       chamber.











                                                             
8270

         1                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Seward.

         3                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Both Senators

         4       Cook and Stafford have spoken very well on the

         5       nominee, but I also would be remiss if I did not

         6       stand and also second the nomination of Walter

         7       Rich as a member of the New York Public

         8       Transportation Safety Board.

         9                      As had been stated, Walter has

        10       been involved in railroad and transportation

        11       issues literally his entire adult life, as has

        12       been stated, starting a railroad and building it

        13       into one of the premier short line railroad

        14       systems in New York and indeed the United

        15       States, the Delaware Otsego corporation, which

        16       is based in Cooperstown in my Senate District.

        17                      He not only is a successful

        18       businessman but has a great love of railroading

        19       and transportation issues, and I know that he

        20       will make an outstanding contribution as a

        21       member of the State Public Transportation Safety

        22       Board.

        23                      And I'm pleased to rise and











                                                             
8271

         1       second his nomination.  And I would ask, Mr.

         2       President, that you offer the congratulations of

         3       the house at the appropriate time.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         5       Stachowski.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Senator Stachowski.

         8                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         9       President, actually, I have a question for

        10       Senator Stafford because he's the chairman of

        11       Finance, on the appointment of Mr. Lee for the

        12       State Racing and Wagering Commission, and maybe

        13        -- can we do this real quick?

        14                      If you would yield for a

        15       question, and my question has got nothing to do

        16       with the appointee, Mr. Lee.  I'm aware that the

        17       appointee is a resident of Saratoga County, and

        18       his Senator told me he is a wonderful man, and I

        19       understand he is a Majority Leader's

        20       appointment, and the other interesting part of

        21       that was that Senator Bruno informed me that he

        22       is a Democrat, I think, which just shows you the

        23       openness of the Majority Leader.











                                                             
8272

         1                      But my question is the process

         2       through which the New York State Racing and

         3       Wagering Commission would come to the Finance

         4       Committee is that where the nomination comes

         5       direct? Because I know a lot of other

         6       nominations go to a committee first and then

         7       come to the Finance Committee.  I know that

         8       racing bills in the Senate are dealt with first

         9       with the Racing Task Force which is made up only

        10       of Majority members, which for an inquiry that's

        11       so important to the state of New York you would

        12       think that there would be some Minority members,

        13       since a large number of us are not only

        14       interested in racing but also have tracks in

        15       their area.

        16                      So my question to Senator

        17       Stafford is -

        18                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

        19       May I have a point of order?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  If Senator

        21       Stachowski will suspend for a moment.

        22                      Senator Libous will state his

        23       point of order.











                                                             
8273

         1                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Is there not a

         2       nomination on the floor at the present time?

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  There are a

         4       number of nominations on the floor.  The Chair

         5       stated at the outset of those nominations that

         6       we would allow nominating speeches, seconding

         7       speeches and discussions, at the end of reading

         8       all of those nominees.  I tried, frankly, to

         9       recognize people if I had an idea they were

        10       speaking on one nominee, but I don't always

        11       know.

        12                      And so now I'm following the

        13       order in which people asked for recognition.

        14                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Actually, I

        17       would have been finished already with the

        18       question and Senator Stafford knew what the

        19       question was, just so you know.

        20                      So the question is how do we get

        21       these nominations, and hopefully some day since

        22       there is such an interest and since it is such

        23       an important industry that we would either make











                                                             
8274

         1       the task force bipartisan or we would put horse

         2       racing issues back in some committee, because

         3       the Assembly considers it important enough that

         4       they have a committee process still, and I know

         5       that Rules sees the bill and technically that

         6       qualifies it, but could you just tell me how the

         7       appointments now come when we have a nomination?

         8       Because I know how the bills come.

         9                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  They come the

        10       way the bills come.  I mentioned before that I

        11       certainly will continue to talk with you on the

        12       subject.  It's a point very well taken.  You

        13       have been very patient.  You mentioned this two

        14       to three to four years ago.  I would suggest

        15       that we sit down, we get a meeting, and do what

        16       we can.

        17                      But it is a good appointment;

        18       and, of course, this is the way it has been

        19       done, and as I have always said, I'm open for

        20       discussion.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        22       Dollinger, did you want recognition?

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  If other











                                                             
8275

         1       speakers would like to address the nominee that

         2       Senator Seward and Senator Cook moved, I will

         3       waive to them.  I assume that's what Senator

         4       Libous had risen to.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Any other Senator

         6       wish to speak?

         7                      Senator Nozzolio.

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  I rise to echo the sentiments of

        10       Senator Cook, Senator Stafford, and Senator

        11       Seward in support of my good friend of over 20

        12       years, Walter Rich.  Walter, as has been stated,

        13       is an entrepreneur in the field of

        14       transportation that means jobs to New York State

        15       throughout our history, and he has added to that

        16       legacy.

        17                      I have been honored to work with

        18       Walter in Washington when I served as counsel to

        19       the committee that wrote transportation and

        20       railroad law, in my capacity as ranking member

        21       for six years of the New York State Assembly

        22       Committee on Transportation, and now to see his

        23       nomination as I serve in the Senate.











                                                             
8276

         1                      His nomination is a very, very

         2       good one, and one that I'm sure all New Yorkers

         3       will be very proud.

         4                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Libous.

         6                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      Mr. President, I too would like

         9       to rise to second the nomination of Walter Rich

        10       to the Transportation Safety Board.  I have had

        11       the pleasure and privilege of working with

        12       Walter for the past couple years.  I think he

        13       brings a great dimension to this board.  Not

        14       only is he a very successful business person,

        15       but he also cares a lot about this state and

        16       cares about his community.

        17                      He is always working to promote

        18       economic development, and he is always promoting

        19       the betterment of New York State.

        20                      So, Mr. President, it is a great

        21       pleasure and honor for me to second his

        22       nomination this evening.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Is there any











                                                             
8277

         1       other Senator that wishes to speak with regard

         2       to Mr. Rich?

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      Then I will recognize Senator

         5       Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         7       President, I just rise -- it turns out there's a

         8       bevy of nominees from my Senate District, and I

         9       would just like to address them all in sequence.

        10                      First of all, I was remiss by not

        11       being here to praise Israel Gonzalez, who has

        12       been reappointed to the state Parole Board.

        13       Israel did wonderful work in his capacity as

        14       Director of the Youth Department in the county

        15       of Monroe.  When I was a member of the county

        16       legislature, I had the privilege of working with

        17       him on a number of issues involving youth, and I

        18       think he brings an interesting perspective of

        19       the young person and the young adult to the

        20       state Parole Board.

        21                      Richard W. McGrath, who has been

        22       nominated for a position on the State Council on

        23       the Arts.  I also know Richard McGrath.  He is











                                                             
8278

         1       the former and I believe and still the president

         2       of the Bucket Dance Theatre, internationally

         3       acclaimed, from Rochester, New York.  I think

         4       he'll bring a new and exiting perspective to the

         5       State Council on the Arts.

         6                      Next gentleman, who has been

         7       nominated to the New York State Thruway

         8       authority is also a friend of mine, someone I

         9       have known for about 30 years, and that's

        10       William C. Warren III. Bill and I had a parting

        11       of the ways when we went different ways.  Bill,

        12       as most of my colleagues on the other side of

        13       the aisle know, is a good and loyal Republican,

        14       a former member of the Brighton Town Board, an

        15       entrepreneur, a businessman, currently I believe

        16       the treasurer of the Monroe County Republican

        17       Party, but a very good man with a very good

        18       sense of what to do in construction and in the

        19       business field, and I think he will be a welcome

        20       addition to the New York State Thruway

        21       Authority.

        22                      The next gentleman on the list is

        23       also a friend of mine, a name who comes to this











                                                             
8279

         1       Legislature with other credentials.  That's

         2       Thomas R. Frey, a former member of the New York

         3       State Assembly, a member of the Board of Regents

         4       and, most recently, the Monroe County

         5       Executive.  I think Tom will be a very welcome

         6       addition to the New York State Power Authority.

         7                      And the last person on the list

         8       is the member of the Board of Visitors of the

         9       Rochester Psychiatric Center, a reappointment of

        10       Nelli Louise Mitchell, M.D. Although I don't

        11       know her personally, I have received several

        12       letters commending her for her past service.

        13                      And I enthusiastically endorse

        14       all of these nominees, Mr. President, and hope

        15       that my colleagues will concur.

        16                      Thank you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        18       Markowitz.

        19                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                      I'm very proud among all of the

        22       nominees today to speak for Maralyn Lowenheim,

        23       who I have known for most of my adult life.











                                                             
8280

         1       Professionally, personally, communitywise, she

         2       is superb, a well qualified CSW and a therapist

         3       extraordinaire.

         4                      She is certainly one of the

         5       leaders in her field, a resident of the Fisk

         6       Terrace community of Brooklyn.  She has served

         7       all of these years on the Kingsboro Psychiatric

         8       Center Board of Visitors.  She does so with love

         9       and compassion for those who are mentally

        10       retarded and who need help so desperately from

        11       this state institution.

        12                      And I commend her for her

        13       desiring to continue to serve the people of New

        14       York.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Wright.

        16                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        17       rise in support of the nomination of the three

        18       reappointments to the Ogdensburg Bridge and Port

        19       Authority, Frederick J. Carter, William R.

        20       Greene, and Patrick Hackett.  These three

        21       individuals are being reappointed, currently

        22       serving as members of the Bridge and Port

        23       Authority, and it is this Authority that has











                                                             
8281

         1       helped revitalize the economy of the North

         2       Country in the Ogdensburg area and oversees not

         3       only the bridge, port, rail and airport

         4       facilities in that area but also the expanding

         5       and growing industrial park.

         6                      And I'm particularly pleased that

         7       the three nominees are representative of the

         8       diversity that we have on that board.  Mr.

         9       Carter being a recognized leader in local labor,

        10       Mr. Greene being a locally elected public

        11       official and Mr. Hackett being a very successful

        12       private businessman.

        13                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

        15       occurs on the confirmation of the nominees.

        16                      All those in favor, say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        21       are confirmed.  Congratulations to all of these

        22       nominees and especially to Walter Rich of

        23       Cooperstown as a member of the New York State











                                                             
8282

         1       Public Transportation Safety Board.

         2                      (Applause)

         3                      The Chair only said especially

         4       because Walter Rich is here.  If there is

         5       anybody else here, I apologize.

         6                      Senator Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         8       can we take up Calendar 1584 at this time?

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        10       read.  It's on page 27.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 27 of

        12       today's regular calendar, Calendar Number 1584,

        13       by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6129, Real

        14       Property Tax Law, in relation to the assessment

        15       of special franchises.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is











                                                             
8283

         1       passed.

         2                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Levy.

         4                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.  I was out of the chamber when we

         6       took up the confirmation of the nomination of

         7       Walter Rich, and very, very briefly I would like

         8       to be heard on this important nomination of the

         9       Governor.

        10                      I want to congratulate the

        11       Governor on the nomination of Walter Rich.  The

        12       Transportation Safety Board has really played a

        13       vital role in this state, and I think that the

        14       work of the board will be immeasurably advanced

        15       by having on that board a successful business

        16       man, a railroad person, like Walter Rich.

        17                      This is really important because

        18       Walter Rich would not be a successful

        19       businessman and railroad person unless he ran

        20       his railroad safely and his employees operated

        21       safely.  That's why he is a successful

        22       businessman, and I think that this board which

        23       does so much important work will move forward











                                                             
8284

         1       immeasurably with Walter Rich's special

         2       knowledge, his special expertise, his special

         3       experience.

         4                      And he is a vital addition to

         5       this board and its future work, and I

         6       congratulate the Governor on the appointment,

         7       and Walter.

         8                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        10                      SENATOR SPANO:  I'd like

        11       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        12       on Calendar 1669.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        14       objection, so ordered.

        15                      Senator Bruno.

        16                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        17       return to reports of standing committees.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi,

        21       and Senator Stafford, on behalf of the Committee

        22       on Judiciary, report the nomination of

        23       Christopher John Mega as a judge of the Court of











                                                             
8285

         1       Claims.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

         3                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

         4       could we have some order, please.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  There will be

         6       order in the chamber.

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

         8       it's never easy to say farewell to a friend, but

         9       I will not blemish this occasion by dwelling on

        10       the negatives because this is a happy occasion.

        11       It's a happy day for Chris Mega and for Madelyn,

        12       for their family, because it crowns a

        13       magnificent career of public service with a

        14       fitting tribute to Chris' ability.

        15                      It's a happy day for the state of

        16       New York because it places on the bench a fine

        17       and dedicated person of great intelligence and

        18       talent.

        19                      It's a happy day for the Senate

        20       because one of our own is being recognized for

        21       the great competence that he has demonstrated so

        22       often and so well during his time in our midst.

        23                      Stating Chris' qualifications in











                                                             
8286

         1       this chamber is somewhat like introducing

         2       someone to his own brother, but I think it is

         3       appropriate that some of those facts from his

         4       resume be spread upon the record of the house.

         5                      Chris is one of that minority of

         6       people who have lived his entire life in the

         7       community where he was born, a son of whom

         8       Brooklyn can be justly proud.

         9                      He married Madelyn Friscia, a

        10       neighbor in the community, and they have been

        11       blessed with one of those marriages which has

        12       carried out all of the dreams and expectations

        13       is of those initial first vows.

        14                      His commitment and identity with

        15       strong family life has been a motivation and a

        16       result of the ideal family relationship with

        17       their children, Chris and Jeff, Valerie and

        18       Jackie.

        19                      Chris' sense of personal

        20       discipline and commitment to duty was reflected

        21       in his Army service from 1953 to 1955.

        22       Graduated from St. Francis college in 1950,

        23       Brooklyn Law School in 1953, was admitted to the











                                                             
8287

         1       bar in 1955.

         2                      Chris has had a varied law

         3       career, first as an insurance claims

         4       investigator and claims manager and later in

         5       private law practice.

         6                      All of us can attest to Chris'

         7       distinguished service in the Senate since 1978

         8       as can many of us who remember his fine

         9       reputation even as he came here as a freshman in

        10       the Assembly in 1974.  He has served with

        11       distinction as the chairman of the Committees on

        12       Veteran Affairs, Ethics, and Crime and

        13       Corrections, but he really hit his stride since

        14       becoming chairman of the Judiciary Committee in

        15       1990.  More than once, he has been complimented

        16       on this floor and off this floor for the

        17       exceptional manner in which he has discharged

        18       his duties as chairman of that committee.

        19                      In one sense, it's unfortunate

        20       that Chris will be hearing primarily civil

        21       cases, because that position will not fully take

        22       advantage of his great attributes of compassion,

        23       of caring, and a deep sense of justice.  But we











                                                             
8288

         1       will have the knowledge that there is being

         2       placed on the civil bench a judge of unwavering

         3       integrity and deep intellectual honesty.

         4                      Mr. President, it is my proud

         5       honor to move the confirmation to the Court of

         6       Claims of my close friend, confidante and

         7       counselor, the already very Honorable

         8       Christopher J. Mega.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Waldon.

        10                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        11       much, Mr. President.

        12                      So many years ago when I was in

        13       the Assembly, we had occasion to have a

        14       discussion in the conference room of the

        15       Assembly on some issues dealing with probation,

        16       parole and correctional services.  That was the

        17       first time that I personally met Chris Mega.

        18                      Those who were of a more liberal

        19       persuasion were very distressed at some of the

        20       things that Chris said during his presentation,

        21       and afterwards they tried to persuade me to be

        22       confrontational with Chris Mega.  But I had

        23       realized that even though a neophyte in terms of











                                                             
8289

         1       politics in these august halls that you don't

         2       criticize a colleague simply because he may have

         3       a different political philosophy on a particular

         4       issue than yourself.

         5                      But from that moment on, through

         6       the years in the Assembly and my years here in

         7       the Senate, I have learned to respect Chris Mega

         8       for a whole host of reasons.  I have learned to

         9       admire him for a whole host of reasons.

        10                      One, he is extremely honest.  He

        11       is a man of conviction and he speaks his mind,

        12       not that all of us don't do that.  I'm sure we

        13       do, but I just happen to notice it more about

        14       Chris than some others.

        15                      He is a person who you can work

        16       well with.  He has a good temperament for what I

        17       believe the judiciary mandates and requires.

        18                      So I applaud him in his success.

        19       I'm very happy for him.  I applaud his family.

        20       I applauded the process that would allow one of

        21       us to emerge to be a jurist on the Court of

        22       Claims.

        23                      I wish him well.  I know he is











                                                             
8290

         1       going to do one heck of a job.

         2                      Thank you very much, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Saland.

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      Mr. President, this is a somewhat

         8       bittersweet moment for those of us who know and

         9       bear great affection for Chris and for his

        10       family.  I have known Chris, oh, probably for

        11       some ten or eleven years now.  We've been sort

        12       of regular breakfast buddies along with Senator

        13       Cook, and I have to tell you that he's an

        14       extraordinary human being.

        15                      At times I find myself telling

        16       Chris that his demeanor, the real Chris is

        17       somewhat belied by that guy from Brooklyn

        18       character.  He is actually one of the most

        19       gentle and considerate and empathetic people

        20       that I've ever had the good fortune of knowing.

        21                      But when I came to this house, I

        22       got to see a dimension of Chris that as a

        23       breakfast buddy and as an Assemblyman I really











                                                             
8291

         1       didn'thave the opportunity to actually come to

         2       know, and that was the kind of respect that he

         3       earned as the chairman of the Judiciary

         4       Committee, the ability he had to cut to the

         5       heart of issues, the ability that he had to

         6       basically, through the very nature and force of

         7       his character, to get to the quick and get there

         8       in an appropriate fashion.

         9                      Chris is not the kind of guy who

        10       is big on window dressing or B.S. He is the kind

        11       of guy who is truly by every stretch of the

        12       imagination a very fine and extraordinarily

        13       capable individual, a man who is judicious by

        14       his very nature.

        15                      I think we will be very, very

        16       fortunate to have Chris, Senator Mega, make that

        17       transformation from this chamber to the bench.

        18       I will miss his cameraderie, his friendship.  I

        19       will miss his intellect.  I will miss his advice

        20       and counsel.  Notwithstanding that, I'm happy

        21       for him; I'm happy for Madelyn.  It's something

        22       I know he's yearned for, for quite some time.

        23       It's something that he's earned in every sense











                                                             
8292

         1       of the word, and I think the quality of justice

         2       in this state much like the quality of

         3       legislation in our chamber will be enhanced by

         4       his going to the bench.

         5                      Chris, God bless.  I wish for you

         6       and Madelyn whatever it is that I would wish for

         7       myself and my wife.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Marino.

         9                      SENATOR MARINO:  Mr. President, I

        10       am just delighted this evening to see my friend,

        11       Chris Mega, acquire a judgeship which he has

        12       sought for many years.  Not only has he sought

        13       it but his wife I think even more so to try to

        14       get him home in Brooklyn.

        15                      And I just hope that he is going

        16       to enjoy his new vocation.  That he is going to

        17       be a great Court of Claims judge, I'm sure of

        18       that.  There is no question about his ability as

        19       an attorney and as a person with judicial

        20       temperament.

        21                      I personally am going to miss

        22       Chris, because he is one of my closest friends

        23       in this chamber and I miss his kidding around











                                                             
8293

         1       with me, his sense of humor.  He has a great

         2       sense of humor, as we all know.

         3                      He's been not only a talented

         4       Senator who has done a terrific job as chairman

         5       of Judiciary on behalf of the people of this

         6       state, but an excellent lawyer who has proven

         7       his ability as an attorney not only in his

         8       private practice but up here in Albany with the

         9       very difficult and technical work he has done as

        10       chairman of Judiciary.

        11                      Chris Mega has been totally loyal

        12       to me as Majority Leader, and I thank him for

        13       that loyalty.  It's been well received, and I

        14       haven't had that always from all corners of this

        15       room.  I respect loyalty.  I respect Chris

        16       Mega.  I hope that his ascending the bench

        17       doesn't mean we're not going to see as much of

        18       him.  I hope that I personally will be afforded

        19       the opportunity to meet with he and Madelyn and

        20       the family quite often and that this choice is a

        21       good choice, Chris; that it's something you are

        22       going to be happy about and that you and Madelyn

        23       and the rest of the family will enjoy many years











                                                             
8294

         1       of good health, and we wish you well.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         3       Markowitz.

         4                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

         5       very much, Mr. President.

         6                      During the height of the

         7       popularity of Ronald Reagan and to a lesser

         8       degree George Bush, if you ask the people of

         9       Brooklyn who their favorite Republican was, it

        10       was neither of those two.  It was Christopher

        11       Mega.

        12                      I'm proud to -- really proud,

        13       happy for him, because so many of us in Brooklyn

        14       sought Chris Mega's advice as a senior member of

        15       the Republican Majority who truly was concerned

        16       about Brooklyn present and future.  Chris Mega

        17       was always there, always there, to listen to

        18       you.  Never ran away from you.  Always had time.

        19                      And for all those reasons, plus

        20       the fact that he is one of the few straight

        21       shooters.  He calls them as he sees them, and

        22       all of us know that about him that know him.  We

        23       know the kind of person he is.  He calls it as











                                                             
8295

         1       he sees it.  We may agree with him at times.  We

         2       may disagree at other times, but we know he is

         3       honest all the time.

         4                      And I know, as I've told Chris

         5       over and over again, he is going to be one of

         6       the best judges we have, fair, sensitive and

         7       balanced.

         8                      And I wish him and his family

         9       well.  We in Brooklyn, even though he's a

        10       Republican, if we got to have a Republican, we

        11       can't have anyone better than Chris Mega.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        13       Ohrenstein.

        14                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Mr.

        15       President, I'm very happy to rise in seconding

        16       this nomination.  Sometimes the best way to get

        17       to know somebody is when you are his adversary,

        18       and I remember the first time I met Chris Mega.

        19       It was on a television program, where I was

        20       representing the Democrats and Chris Mega was

        21       representing the Republicans.  I think he was

        22       still in the Assembly at that time, and we had a

        23       pretty rough and tumble debate, but it was a











                                                             
8296

         1       very good debate, and it was a debate which was

         2       laced with warmth and friendship, and with a

         3       great deal of intelligence, at least on his

         4       part.  I don't know about my part.

         5                      But having worked with Chris over

         6       the years, having watched him go from greater to

         7       greater, greater responsibilities in this

         8       chamber and discharging all of those

         9       responsibilities with the utmost of fairness -

        10                      I'm sorry, Chris.  I kept looking

        11       over here.  I didn't realize you were over there

        12       (indicating the V.I.P. Chair section).  I didn't

        13       know that things move with such fantastic speed

        14       in this chamber.  We haven't been used to such

        15       speedy progression.  So you are creating a new

        16       standard for speed in this chamber.

        17                      It has been wonderful to watch

        18       Chris Mega rise from responsibility to

        19       responsibility and to rise in importance in this

        20       chamber because every assignment he has had, he

        21       has discharged with excellence, he has

        22       discharged with great fairness, regardless of

        23       the underlying -- whatever the underlying











                                                             
8297

         1       partisan politics were, there was also always in

         2       his mind the question of what is good public

         3       policy, what is fairness to the people

         4       involved.  And if those are not the best

         5       criterion for someone who is going to ascend to

         6       the bench, I don't know what they are.

         7                      So I believe that Chris is going

         8       to be an intelligent lawyer as a judge, an

         9       informed judge, and he is going to be a fair

        10       judge.  He is going to understand that people

        11       who come before him have personal problems that

        12       need some personal decisions as well as

        13       decisions which may be correct or not correct

        14       under the law.

        15                      So I think the Governor's

        16       nomination does this chamber great credit, and

        17       it certainly validates and rewards a great

        18       political career.  I'm sorry to see you go, but

        19       I'm happy to vote for you.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.  First of all, as everybody in this

        23       chamber knows, it's about time.  I think we all











                                                             
8298

         1       waited for this moment.

         2                      Senator Mega, I wanted to just

         3       get it right tonight.  It was important, so I

         4       went to the dictionary.  I wanted to get the

         5       words right.  I figured I'd better get the book

         6       because you'd never believe it.

         7                      Because I said, Well, what's a

         8       good word?  Compassion.  I opened it up, and

         9       there's your picture right in the book.  Right

        10       next to "compassion", the example of compassion,

        11       Chris Mega.

        12                      I said he is a fine man, and I

        13       opened the book.  Right next to the word "fine",

        14       Chris Mega.

        15                      I figured it had to end, but no,

        16       right next to "gentleman", Chris Mega.

        17                      "Humane", Chris Mega.

        18                      I said this guy is going to be

        19       some judge.  I want to tell you.

        20                      I am unashamed when I tell you I

        21       love this man.  Chris, you are terrific.  You

        22       said we shouldn't make you cry.  I'm going to

        23       cry.  I fell for you and your family.  I have











                                                             
8299

         1       seen you as a legislator.  I have never seen

         2       anybody better than you at chairing a committee,

         3       and certainly nothing is more sensitive than the

         4       Judiciary Committee.  We've had some meetings

         5       like the one we had about a week or so ago.

         6       People's lives are at stake.  It's difficult.

         7       You don't know what to do, and you create an

         8       atmosphere which gave those people an

         9       opportunity to at least have it out, have their

        10       say, and in more than one way you saved lives.

        11                      You have the most beautiful,

        12       quiet dignity of any person.  You are a great

        13       legislator, but what is more important is you

        14       are just a greater human being.

        15                      I'm going to miss you

        16       tremendously, and I am just so excited for you

        17       and your family.  I wish you everything you wish

        18       for yourself and everything I could wish for my

        19       family.  God bless you, Chris.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Goodman.

        21                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

        22       Gives one a surge of special pleasure to cast

        23       our gaze over in the direction of the clock











                                                             
8300

         1       tonight to see not only Chris but his beautiful

         2       and gracious wife, Madelyn, with him.  I have

         3       seen her on occasion when she is called upon to

         4       sing the Star Spangled Banner at festive

         5       occasions in the borough of Kings, and the two

         6       of them make an absolutely unique couple.

         7                      I think one of my lasting

         8       impressions of Chris will be my visits to his

         9       office when he unfailingly escorts me to ever

        10       newer and ever larger enlargements of the

        11       pictures of his grandchildren.  The pride and

        12       joy which he reflects in introducing them and

        13       reintroducing them each time I visit him is just

        14       an indication of the man.

        15                      He is truly a family man in the

        16       best sense of the word, deeply humanitarian,

        17       deeply caring and, at times, very forceful.  I

        18       can illustrate that by the fact that one of

        19       Chris' favorite greetings is to come up, at

        20       least in my case, and give me a rather hard

        21       punch on the arm, above the right bicep.  I used

        22       to think this was charming, but that evening I

        23       would look in the mirror as I was preparing to











                                                             
8301

         1       go to bed and see a rather heavy bruise, and I

         2       would be reminded of the glorious outpouring of

         3       affection with which Chris expressed himself.

         4                      You know, this is a collegial

         5       body, and we work under enormous pressure as

         6       reflected by this evening, and because it's

         7       late, I'll make this quite brief, except to say

         8       to you, my colleagues, that we are bound

         9       together by something that is simply

        10       unimaginable to people outside of this process.

        11                      And so when one of us is called

        12       to a higher calling in the view of some, you

        13       really get a kind of an odd feeling in the pit

        14       of your stomach, because you don't want to let

        15       go of the ties that truly bind.  But when I stop

        16       to think for a moment the job that Chris is

        17       ascending to, namely, that of the equivalent

        18       really, of a Supreme Court judge, which the

        19       bench he goes to is in every sense of the word,

        20       the responsibilities are immense; and, often,

        21       this is the only contact which the citizen has

        22       with the immense churning wheels of the

        23       bureaucracy and the government.











                                                             
8302

         1                      And it's only if we can produce

         2       people like Chris Mega with compassion,

         3       sensitivity and a real understanding of human

         4       nature that this court system which can be so

         5       faceless and cruel and yet so compassionate and

         6       understanding is molded.

         7                      So, Chris, the combination of

         8       feelings runs very deep.  We will miss you

         9       enormously, but we will take great rejoicing in

        10       the fact that you'll be doing things for people

        11       in your inimitable way in a slightly different

        12       setting.

        13                      My wish for you is that those

        14       beautiful black robes will be as comfortable for

        15       you as the lovely red, white and blue star

        16       spangled necktie you are wearing this evening.

        17                      Good luck, Chris.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Libous.

        19                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.  There's going to be many things that

        21       have been said and many people will say more

        22       about Chris Mega, but I'm only going to relate a

        23       very brief personal story and a personal











                                                             
8303

         1       observation.

         2                      When I first came to the Senate

         3       five years ago, there was a piece of legislation

         4       that I felt that I needed very badly.  And

         5       within our conference, I was beat up quite

         6       badly, and many of my colleagues said, "You

         7       don't want to put that bill out.  You don't

         8       really need that.  Don't worry about it, and let

         9       it go."

        10                      I really need the bill, and it

        11       hurt inside.  And after the conference was over,

        12       Chris Mega came up to me and he pulled me aside,

        13       and he said, "Tommy, don't listen to any of

        14       those guys.  You do what you feel is right.  If

        15       you feel that this is what you have to do, just

        16       do it."

        17                      And I think that's the kind of

        18       judge that Chris Mega is going to be when he is

        19       on the bench.  He is going to make the right

        20       decision.

        21                      I also talk about a personal

        22       observation.  Just the other night in this

        23       chamber, we had a very tough debate on a piece











                                                             
8304

         1       of legislation that deals with the USTA.  And

         2       while many of us said that we made our mind up

         3       before the debate took place, whether we were

         4       for or against it, Chris Mega stood up and he

         5       stated that he made his decision after he

         6       carefully listened for two and a half hours on

         7       both sides of the issue.  That's the kind of

         8       individual that we need on the bench, and that's

         9       the kind of jurist that Chris Mega will be.

        10                      But, Chris, the one thing that

        11       I'm going to miss most about you is when you

        12       stand up and you button that button, and you

        13       give us that shot in the arm, and then you look

        14       at us and you say, "I love you."

        15                      Chris, we love you, and we'll

        16       miss you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber.

        18                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.  So many correct things have been

        20       said about my good friend, Chris Mega, that some

        21       I will repeat.

        22                      Senator Markowitz mentioned about

        23       being a good Republican.  I have known Chris so











                                                             
8305

         1       very long that on 149th Street and Third Avenue,

         2       when we were asked who was a favorite Democrat,

         3       Chris Mega's name was mentioned.  That shows you

         4       how long I have known this very fine, decent

         5       human being.

         6                      Chris, you are probably among the

         7       few persons left that represent what this

         8       chamber has been to most of us for so many

         9       years.  You have been just a delight to be part

        10       of a system that has held most of us in good

        11       stead.  You are certainly a caring person and

        12       someone who loves people, and you have a unique

        13       ability with your abundance of love to share

        14       that love with your colleagues and your family,

        15       and you are close to family.

        16                      I mentioned in the Judiciary

        17       meeting about that grandson of yours who had a

        18       desire to be a Senator and a pilot and a judge,

        19       and I said then and I say again, because it's

        20       worth repeating, that at least he has two of

        21       them now.

        22                      I'm going to miss you because you

        23       have a certain amount of temperament and











                                                             
8306

         1       understanding for people and patience.  And it

         2       didn't make any difference which side of the

         3       aisle you are from.  It's nice like from time to

         4       time when things get a little bit heated and you

         5       look around and in some instances you don't have

         6       many friends, and Chris always found his way

         7       whether it be Senator Libous on your first bill

         8       or some debate that we've had that got a little

         9       heated, and he will come along and nudge you a

        10       little bit and just say, "Everything is going to

        11       be okay."

        12                      So I'm going to miss you, and I'm

        13       happy for your family, and I know that you will

        14       make an excellent judge because you are an

        15       excellent human being.  We have all watched you

        16       through the years, your fairness with people,

        17       the ability not to say no or yes, or certainly

        18       not to say "No" where people's lives are

        19       involved and to be fair and just, and that's all

        20       we really are about.  And you exemplify that.

        21                      And there is a rumor going around

        22       that you could have had this judgeship two or

        23       three years ago, but your leader, Senator











                                                             
8307

         1       Marino, just wouldn't put the approval on it

         2       because he wanted to keep you here because you

         3       meant so much to the leadership and you meant so

         4       much to this body.

         5                      I don't know why, in all

         6       seriousness, the Governor has taken so long to

         7       make this appointment.  I'm just happy that he

         8       finally got around to the business of doing it.

         9       We will miss you.  I have certainly been more

        10       than rewarded by your friendship through the

        11       years, and I certainly will miss you.

        12                      And God bless you and your

        13       family.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nolan.

        15                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      The night is late, Chris, so I

        18       will be very brief, but I'm truly very, very

        19       happy for you and your family.  You are

        20       certainly a terrific person, terrific human

        21       being, and I know you will do a tremendous job

        22       as a judge.

        23                      And I must say that I really











                                                             
8308

         1       appreciate the Governor's appointment, because

         2       you are just one of those people that one meets

         3       in life that is really a very caring, decent,

         4       nice, smart person.

         5                      So good luck and God bless.

         6       Semper fidelis.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Volker.

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         9       I, too, will try to be brief.

        10                      As somebody who served not only

        11       in the Senate with Chris but also in the

        12       Assembly, I guess I can speak about one of the

        13       differences between the Senate and the Assembly

        14       is that we have the privilege here and the

        15       enjoyment of making these kinds of

        16       confirmations,, but I can't say, Chris, from my

        17       perspective that this is the most enjoyable

        18       thing that I've done.

        19                      For you, it certainly is, because

        20       I know that you have wanted to be able to be a

        21       judge, and I understand that.  As a lawyer, it

        22       is certainly the type of thing, I think, that

        23       many people think is the epitome of their











                                                             
8309

         1       career.  And for you, Chris, personally I think

         2       that you have been one of the finest Senators

         3       that this body has seen since I've been here.

         4                      You and I have worked together in

         5       criminal justice for so many years.  Although

         6       you moved to Judiciary some years ago, you

         7       continued to keep the strong interest in

         8       criminal justice, and you and I worked so hard

         9       together in the area of financing and so many of

        10       the areas that are so important in a criminal

        11       justice area.

        12                      I'm happy for you.  And, of

        13       course, I'm happy for your wife and family.  I

        14       can only say to you that you have always been a

        15       good friend to me and a good friend to so many

        16       people in this body.

        17                      And in behalf of myself and my

        18       family, let me say to you Godspeed, and I know

        19       you are going to be one of the greatest judges

        20       that this state has ever seen.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.  I guess after the ordeal we've been











                                                             
8310

         1       through these ten days, people will do anything

         2       to get out of here.

         3                      Chris, I know you've looked

         4       forward to this judgeship, and it's really most

         5       deserved.  And you are the sort of person that

         6       whatever you want I want for you, and I know

         7       this whole chamber does.  We've served together

         8       in the Assembly.  We've served obviously

         9       together in the Senate.

        10                      But I had also the very rare

        11       privilege and opportunity of being the ranking

        12       member while you were the chairman of the

        13       Judiciary Committee, and I can just tell you I'm

        14       really going to miss you.  You are exceptionally

        15       fair.  And when one looks at your life and what

        16       you have achieved, it really shows that somebody

        17       who believes in doing the right thing can

        18       accomplish and can achieve and can gain

        19       recognition which is deserved.

        20                      You know, in a society where we

        21       often seem to value the people who take the

        22       shortcut, it's wonderful to see somebody win

        23       because they've taken the right and the straight











                                                             
8311

         1       road.

         2                      You are a sweet person.  I

         3       remember after one debate, you came over and you

         4       handed me a stuffed toy.  It was a turkey.  You

         5       said, "Here it is, Leichter."  Well, I still

         6       have it.  I prize it because it came from a

         7       friend, and you'll always be a friend.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Maltese.

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President.

        10       I have known Chris in many different capacities

        11       and we recollect with fondness especially his

        12       membership in the old "F Troop" in the Assembly,

        13       and he was kind of the youngster of the crowd,

        14       but following in very good footsteps.

        15                      Watching his career as a friend

        16       and now a colleague, I've had a great deal of

        17       pride in him and his accomplishments.  Like my

        18       colleagues here, I will share his pride, his

        19       understandable justifiable pride in his

        20       children, his grandchildren.  He is a great

        21       family man.

        22                      I know that so much of this has

        23       been said before and with special reference to











                                                             
8312

         1       his compassion and sensitivity.  I would like to

         2       emulate Senator Libous and just say a brief word

         3       about something that just happened a day or two

         4       ago, where in the exercise of his good judgment

         5       he voted against a position that I was espousing

         6       on the floor having to do with tennis.  And

         7       after casting that vote, the following morning,

         8       I received a confidential communication, which

         9       you will see was not confidential, which

        10       contained a beautiful engrossed certificate with

        11       an apple and a certificate of commendation

        12       ostensibly signed by our good mayor, together

        13       with a letter.  And I must admit I was halfway

        14       through the letter which was filled with phrases

        15       of, you know," game, "set" and "match", and "We

        16       hit one over the net," and so on, when I

        17       realized that it had to be a joke.  But the last

        18       lines I think were telling something about the

        19       fact, "We really creamed the opposition, and it

        20       was a piece of cake," and enclosed was an

        21       absolutely scrumptious banana cream pie, and it,

        22       of course, was all Chris' handowork, and I think

        23       bespeaks his character, the type of person he











                                                             
8313

         1       is, reaching out at all times with sensitivity

         2       as has been said.

         3                      He'll make a great judge.  He is

         4       a great friend, a good friend, a family man,

         5       somebody that I will be very sorry to lose here

         6       as a colleague, but hope to keep forever as my

         7       good friend.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Excuse me.  I

         9       lost my list.  Senator Tully.

        10                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      Chris, with all of the accolades

        13       being justly accorded you this evening, I'm not

        14       really sure if you should have been confirmed or

        15       canonized.

        16                      I have been privileged to serve

        17       with you on the Crime and Corrections Committee

        18       and on the Judiciary Committee, and I think the

        19       way in which you conducted the Judiciary

        20       Committee is symptomatic of the way you are in

        21       real life.  You're prompt; you're fair; you're

        22       efficient.  I don't think I've ever heard

        23       anybody say a bad word about you.











                                                             
8314

         1                      Some of the members may not be

         2       aware of the fact that you are held in pretty

         3       high regard by the executive, as well, because

         4       as I understand it he came here tonight into the

         5       chamber and he personally delivered the

         6       nomination to you.  I can't recall that ever

         7       happening before, but it's a tribute to you as a

         8       man, as an individual, as a Senator and as a

         9       future jurist.

        10                      I know on paper you have all the

        11       credentials that someone would need to have to

        12       become a jurist.  But I think you possess

        13       something that's much more important, and that's

        14       judicial temperament.

        15                      We have an expression here in the

        16       Senate, some of us at least, with respect to

        17       loyalty when we say someone has their hand in

        18       the fire.  Chris Mega has always had his hand in

        19       the fire.  Chris Mega has a lot of friends.  A

        20       long time ago, they made a movie about some

        21       boxer.  I think it was Rocky Graziano.  They

        22       said somebody up there likes me.  I think in

        23       your case everybody down here not only likes











                                                             
8315

         1       you, they love you.  We're going to miss you.

         2                      We wish you and Madelyn Godspeed

         3       and all the best in the future.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Halperin.

         5                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Mr.

         6       President.  As I have been listening to each of

         7       my colleagues speak about our mutual colleague,

         8       Chris Mega, I have become progressively more

         9       upset.  And the reason for that is I thought we

        10       had a special relationship.  Now I find out that

        11       everyone on this floor thinks you are a

        12       wonderful guy.  I just thought there was

        13       something special going on between you and I,

        14       but you are just a wonderful person to

        15       everybody, and I find that very upsetting.

        16                      But there's one way that I find,

        17       after having listened to a number of my

        18       colleagues, that you treated me differently.

        19       You didn't punch me in the arm.  You always got

        20       me in the ribs, and I don't know why.  Maybe as

        21       a fellow Brooklynite you felt I could take it

        22       better, but I was always very wary when I saw

        23       you coming along; but, nevertheless, I will miss











                                                             
8316

         1       you.

         2                      And I guess the best way to

         3       describe you so far as this confirmation is you

         4       are sort of a judge waiting to happen.  You

         5       couldn't just fit the bill any better than you

         6       do.  I was looking through the dictionary.

         7       Manny did not look up the word "perspective"

         8       because had he, he would have seen your picture

         9       next to that, too, because you put everything in

        10       life in perspective.

        11                      And probably along with your

        12       demeanor, which will be very important to

        13       someone who's ascending to the bench, there is

        14       probably nothing more important for a judge to

        15       be able to do than to put things into

        16       perspective and to understand not only the

        17       letter of the law but the reality of life and

        18       how the law should apply to it.  And I know that

        19       you have that ability and that you will apply

        20       that ability in the most judicious of manners.

        21                      And so I wish you the best of

        22       luck.  And of all the confirmations that I have

        23       ever voted for, I've never felt more confident











                                                             
8317

         1       than in this one and good luck to you, and do

         2       Brooklyn proud.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Solomon.

         4                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.  First of all, of course on behalf of

         6       all my colleagues in this chamber, both past and

         7       present, we all want to wish you, Senator Mega,

         8       well.

         9                      I probably have a different

        10       experience with Senator Mega.  Our districts

        11       have abutted each other as long as we've both

        12       been in office, and through reapportionment he

        13       keeps coming a little further east, further

        14       east, further east, and he kept taking a few

        15       blocks, but we've always worked together, and

        16       the difference has been is when we got back into

        17       Brooklyn, whether it be over a homeless shelter

        18       that was actually in a church in Bensonhurst or

        19       with Catholic Guardians, all the elected

        20       officials worked together.  There was no

        21       political competition for accolades.  The only

        22       thing we tried to do was to get the job done,

        23       and whether it was Senator Mega or Senator











                                                             
8318

         1       Solomon or an Assemblyman or a Councilman, the

         2       only objective was to do what was right for our

         3       constituents, and I think Senator Mega had a

         4       leading role in leading us in that direction, in

         5       basically saying, "We're going to get this

         6       done.  We're not going to see who can get the

         7       headlines.  We're just going to get the job

         8       done.  And if we have to beat up on the City or

         9       the state or whoever, we'll do it.  We'll do it

        10       as one, and no one is going to take the credit.

        11       We'll all take equal credit."

        12                      And I think that is something I'm

        13       going to miss.   The other thing I'll miss is

        14       the occasional car rides because it always

        15       seemed that Chris had the car and I never had

        16       the car and we were going in the same direction.

        17       When we discuss items in groups and what not and

        18       find out, I guess, the reason he kept taking

        19       part of the area I represented in

        20       reapportionment was that we apparently both

        21       represented in a lot of ways the same political

        22       philosophy from the same neighborhood.  And I'm

        23       really going to miss Chris Mega because he was











                                                             
8319

         1       always there when we had these odd problems, and

         2       he was always a calming force and the leader of

         3       the group of the local legislators when we had

         4       to deal with the various city, state and federal

         5       agencies in some instances, to solve these

         6       problems.

         7                      And I'll miss you, and I've just

         8       got to say that he's done a tremendous job in

         9       the district in addition to what he's done up

        10       here.

        11                      Thank you.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Farley.

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      Chris, you are a dear friend and

        16       we're truly going to miss you, and all these

        17       lovely things that are being said about Senator

        18       Mega, I want you to know that he's a devoted

        19       husband and an astute shopper.  It was just on

        20       Christmas Eve or the 23rd when we were breaking

        21       here once a few years back, and we were all

        22       rushing out to go to dinner together and Chris

        23       had to go shopping, and he went down to a











                                                             
8320

         1       jewelry store that was going out of business

         2       here in Albany to buy Madelyn some pearls and

         3       some earrings, and he said, "Do you take VISA

         4       and MasterCard?" And they said, "Yes."

         5                      He said, "I'd like to see some

         6       pearls."  They pulled out the pearls.  He asked,

         7       "How much is that?" They said, "Eight-fifty."

         8                      He said, "Do you have something a

         9       little better?" They pulled out another set.

        10                      "How much is that?"

        11                      "Eighteen seventy-five."

        12                      He said, "I'll take that, and

        13       could I see some earrings."  They showed some

        14       little diamond earrings, and he said, "How much

        15       are the earrings?" They said, "Eight hundred

        16       fifty dollars."

        17                      He said, Well, I'll skip the

        18       earrings and just take the pearls," and he

        19       pulled out a $20 bill and tried to pay for 18...

        20                      (Laughter)

        21                      That's a true story, Chris.

        22                      (Laughter)

        23                      We're going to miss you.  The











                                                             
8321

         1       other night when the call came in about his

         2       confirmation, this young fellow really wanted to

         3       be a judge.  He was so excited he couldn't dial

         4       the phone.  I had to dial the phone for him.

         5                      He is going to be a remarkable

         6       judge, and I think that was exemplified by the

         7       way that he ran the Judiciary Committee.  And

         8       every member of that committee I think would

         9       attest to that.

        10                      What a great guy.  And, you know,

        11       he's an old drill sergeant, too.  That's why he

        12       goes around and punches people, I think.

        13                      But, Chris, we do love you.

        14       We're going to miss you.  But nobody is going to

        15       miss you as much as Charlie Cook, his roommate

        16       for so many, many years.  And, Charlie, I know

        17        -- you're going to have to become his clerk or

        18       something.

        19                      We wish you the very best and

        20       we're very happy for you.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Levy.

        22                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President, I

        23       think it was Steve Saland who said that this is











                                                             
8322

         1       a bittersweet occasion for all of us.  I don't

         2       think that any of us in this chamber could be

         3       happier for Chris and for Madelyn if we were his

         4       brothers, his sisters, members of his family,

         5       and for all of us who know him, he really looks

         6       on us as members of his family.

         7                      Senator after Senator has spoken

         8       about Chris' extraordinary ability and his

         9       unique character traits.  I'm sure that each of

        10       us could rise and talk about one of Chris'

        11       traits.  But what I think about is that

        12       indomitable determination.  When you think about

        13       the district that Chris had, not under the

        14       latest reapportionment but the district before

        15       that.  If he wasn't indomitable and determined,

        16       no one could have overcome the political

        17       difficulties that Chris did, and part of his

        18       character and his attitude is not that the glass

        19       is half full.  His attitude is always that the

        20       glass is 99 percent full with that positive

        21       attitude.  That's his hallmark and his

        22       tradition, and his legacy as Senator and as a

        23       legislator.











                                                             
8323

         1                      I know that as a judge he is

         2       going to be stern when sternness is required.

         3       He is going to be compassionate when compassion

         4       is merited.  He will deal with the guilty justly

         5       and fairly.  And probably even more importantly,

         6       there will be no judge that has ever sat on the

         7       bench or will ever sit in the future that will

         8       more zealously protect the innocent and their

         9       rights.

        10                      We're sad, Chris, you are not

        11       going to be with us.  We love you.  We miss you,

        12       and this chamber is never really going to be the

        13       same for each of us, because when we turn around

        14       and we look over there (indicating the Senator's

        15       chair), Chris Mega is not here.

        16                      All the best.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Skelos.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.  Senator Goodman has been punched in

        20       the arm and Senator Halperin in the ribs.  With

        21       me it's right here in the thigh where I have

        22       taken the shots.  In fact, one day when I was

        23       perhaps carrying on a little bit more than I











                                                             
8324

         1       should have been in conference, all of a sudden

         2       Mega's next to me, gives me one of those.  I go,

         3       "What's that?" He said, "I learned that in the

         4       Marines.  Take it easy and put life in

         5       perspective."

         6                      Now, that shot, one day I gave it

         7       to my son when he was acting up a little bit,

         8       and he said, "What is that, Dad?" And I said,

         9       "That's a Mega shot."  Show you're famous in

        10       the eyes of my son in terms of if he acts up a

        11       little bit I said, "Watch out for Mega; it's

        12       coming," and he quiets down.

        13                      When I came into the chambers, I

        14       went over and congratulated Madelyn, and she

        15       said to me, "I hope Chris is happy with the

        16       decision."  I guarantee you that Chris is happy

        17       with the decision because there is nothing he

        18       has wanted more, Madelyn, in the last couple

        19       years.  And, in fact, he sacrificed himself to

        20       make sure that we maintain the Majority, which

        21       is very important to him in this house, and

        22       really put aside getting that judgeship for a

        23       couple of years.  But he wants to be a judge.











                                                             
8325

         1       He wants to be home with you.  Because I have

         2       never heard a person express their love for a

         3       wife and for the family as much as he does,

         4       especially this time of year when perhaps our

         5       nights are long and the days that we spend here

         6       are long.

         7                      This is the type of perspective

         8       he will bring as a judge of the Court of

         9       Claims.  Chris and I, to an extent, our careers

        10       paralleled each other from 1982, when we had the

        11       misfortune of not being elected, myself elected,

        12       Chris reelected, to the Senate.  I remember

        13       talking to him, and he said, "Dean, keep your

        14       life in perspective.  You have your law

        15       practice.  You have your family.  You have your

        16       health.  Go on and you'll fight the future

        17       fight."  And in 1984, keeping that in

        18       perspective, we were both successful.

        19                      But it's the perspective part,

        20       Chris, that I'm always going to remember with

        21       you, as a friend and as a colleague, and I think

        22        -- I know that Donny has mentioned it, and

        23       that's what we're going to miss here.











                                                             
8326

         1                      We're going to miss those few

         2       words that all of a sudden we snap back and

         3       think and say, "You know, we're really not

         4       necessarily -- we are important in our jobs, but

         5       don't go too far."  Keep your ego down, keep

         6       your self-importance down.  Represent your

         7       people the best you can, and then go on and

         8       fight the future fight if you're not successful.

         9                      But it's not that important to

        10       win every single battle.  So on behalf of Gail

        11       and myself, we salute the two of you.  We know

        12       you are going to be a wonderful judge.  And we

        13       hope that you have all the health and happiness

        14       that you both deserve.

        15                      God bless both of you.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        18       really feel very happen to join all my

        19       colleagues in this great and very deserving show

        20       of love and affection and admiration for one of

        21       our colleagues.

        22                      I remember, I think it was about

        23       the first two years, first term, my term, that











                                                             
8327

         1       there was a debate about a social issue that I

         2       felt very strongly about.  And Chris Mega, not

         3       knowing my style, and when I feel very strongly

         4       about something I come out -- I'm perceived as

         5       coming out very forcibly.

         6                      After the debate, the session was

         7       over.  He came over very quietly to me, and he

         8       said, well, what I meant in the debate is this,

         9       that and the other thing.  I don't remember the

        10       issue at the time.  What I do remember, however,

        11       is his sensitivity, that he felt that he have

        12       should come to me so I wouldn't be upset or

        13       something or other.

        14                      So that when every year in my

        15       county where we live we're dealing with

        16       candidates for judgeships, usually we use one of

        17       the words -- of the criteria is "judicial

        18       temperament."

        19                      Well, Mr. President, if there is

        20       somebody I believe, and my colleagues, as well,

        21       I do believe, who really has the most

        22       magnificent judicial temperament to be an

        23       excellent, fair judge that one is Chris Mega.











                                                             
8328

         1                      At the personal level, we all

         2       admire him because he is a true family man.  In

         3       fact, I'm going to use a phrase that at times

         4       people choose to look upon it with great

         5       criticism.  He really represents family values,

         6       traditional family values, Mr. President.  And

         7       I, for one, and all of us here admire him more

         8       for it.

         9                      He has a very strong inner

        10       strength, a quiet one.  His understanding of

        11       people's follies, very realistic in his

        12       appraisal of the relationship between reality

        13       and justice.

        14                      So that we're going to miss you,

        15       Chris, very, very much and it's very -- really

        16       very endearing to see the impression that,

        17       Chris, you are leaving among each one of us,

        18       this outpouring of good wishes, this outpouring

        19       of good feelings towards you, and it is really

        20       very deserving.

        21                      We all, I also, of course, wish

        22       you the best, and you will have more time,

        23       hopefully, to enjoy more your wife and your











                                                             
8329

         1       grandchildren.  So we'll miss you.  Keep well,

         2       and we are certain that you are going to be the

         3       best possible judge that could ever be.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         5       Stachowski.

         6                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         7       President.  Pretty much everything has been

         8       said, but I couldn't possibly let this

         9       appointment go by without saying a few words.

        10       I'm tickled that Chris is finally getting

        11       something that he really wants, as all of us

        12       feel so happy because when a friend gets

        13       something they really want, it makes you feel so

        14       good.

        15                      I have to say, though, that I

        16       have to kind of give a warning to Ralph and

        17       notice to the other lawyers in the Majority side

        18       that the last couple of people that were in the

        19       office next to mine in the corner of the fifth

        20       floor have gone on to become judges.  So if you

        21       are anxious to do that, I advise you when Chris

        22       moves out, you might want to move in.

        23                      Secondly, I would like to say











                                                             
8330

         1       that Chris has all the qualities, as you all

         2       mentioned, that will make him just an

         3       outstanding judge.  I think the number one

         4       quality, as always, his humanity because I think

         5       his humanity is just -- it just oozes out of

         6       him, and I think that is going to be the number

         7       one quality that will make him a jurist that

         8       will set him above most.

         9                      And I think, as far as I'm

        10       concerned, one of the things that always struck

        11       me about him was that he is so comfortable with

        12       himself.  And I think because he is, when you

        13       sit and talk with him or you're in a group with

        14       him, he makes you comfortable with yourself and

        15       the whole group feel that way.  And I think

        16       sometimes here, when we're all worked up or

        17       we're all feeling self-important or we're all

        18       angry with each other, it's good to sit down

        19       with Chris because he kind of loosens you right

        20       up, and it always seems to work that way with

        21       me, and I'm just glad I had that opportunity to

        22       know him for that reason if nothing else.

        23                      And one last thing I'll mention,











                                                             
8331

         1       and I wouldn't even have thought of this but

         2       Senator Goodman brought it up first, was that he

         3       has that habit of hitting you in the arm.  And I

         4       think one thing that showed right away to me

         5       that he'll be a great judge is that obviously he

         6       showed great judgment in that he never hit me

         7       hard enough to bruise me.

         8                      (Laughter)

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.  This must be a very glorious evening

        12       for you, Senator Mega.  I mean how many people

        13       could have 60 colleagues talk about them in

        14       glowing terms while they are still alive.  There

        15       is a fellow up there who is putting it on video,

        16       is probably going to send you a copy, and you

        17       can look at it on quiet evenings some time in

        18       the future and remember what everyone here said

        19       tonight.

        20                      Senator Mega has had to endure

        21       many burdens in his political career, but I

        22       imagine the one that was most sustained and over

        23       the longest period of time was being identified











                                                             
8332

         1       as "one of those six Republican Senators from

         2       the city of New York."  And on those occasions

         3       when we would have to get together to discuss an

         4       issue, keeping in mind that five of the six were

         5       Italian -- are Italian, those meetings would not

         6       always be the most pleasant experiences.  Chris

         7       would remind us, however, as you have heard

         8       here, it ain't over 'til it's over.  Do the

         9       right thing.  And if he felt we were being

        10       criticized unfairly, he would have more colorful

        11       ways of describing his feelings, none of which I

        12       can repeat here.

        13                      We will remember this session for

        14       many, many reasons:  Perhaps its length, the

        15       fact that we were in session on the 4th of July,

        16       some of the very difficult thorny issues we've

        17       had to deal with.  But the thing that I will

        18       remember most about this session is the day a

        19       good friend, a colleague, a beautiful human

        20       being, went on to do something he really wanted

        21       to do.

        22                      And for that reason, we're happy

        23       for both of you.











                                                             
8333

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         2       Stafford.

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

         4       this is one time when I can say I just second

         5       everything that has been said.  I can say it no

         6       better.

         7                      I would point out, however, that

         8       you have showed good judgment.  You stayed with

         9       a group of us in Albany.  We're going to miss

        10       you.  Miss you there and miss you here.

        11                      As a matter of fact, Senator

        12       Maltese, the people who sell the pies are really

        13       concerned, because they also have quite a good

        14       place to serve food.  I wouldn't want to

        15       advertise here.

        16                      I would make this point -- so

        17       many fine points have been made about Chris this

        18       evening -- but he is also joining a great group

        19       of judges.  We have seen them come through here

        20       being confirmed, the type of individuals they

        21       are -- two, I think, are here with us this

        22       evening, two other close friends of mine and

        23       Chris.  He is going to do the type of work that











                                                             
8334

         1       they are doing.

         2                      And after it's all been said,

         3       when Chris Mega with Crime and Corrections was

         4       going out around the state deciding whether a

         5       SHOCK incarceration program should begin or

         6       whether -- it was pointed out so well by Senator

         7       Gold the other -- about two weeks ago.  Probably

         8       as sensitive a situation as you could have in a

         9       committee, and it was handled with such dignity,

        10       courage and understanding.

        11                      And I know we all feel that if we

        12       were ever in a situation and we needed a person

        13       that we could depend upon, it would be Chris

        14       Mega.  It is Chris Mega, and we're going to be

        15       able to depend upon him.  He will be one of the

        16       best judges we've ever had.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

        18                      SENATOR DALY:  What's left to

        19       say? I guess, Chris, I've known you as long as

        20       most people in this house.  You and I joined the

        21       Assembly at the same time back in -- I came a

        22       little ahead of you.  I beat you by about six

        23       months and we became good friends over there











                                                             
8335

         1       with Charlie Cook and Guy Molinari, all the good

         2       times we had.

         3                      Madelyn, let me tell you one

         4       thing.  One thing really stood out, the deep and

         5       unshakeable love that Chris has for you.  And

         6       you can tell just talking with Chris when he

         7       mentions you, and it was something to be admired

         8       and envied.

         9                      I remember how often he told me,

        10       "My goodness, she treats me like a king, 'Up,

        11       King.  Down, King.  Not in the house, King.'"

        12                      (Laughter)

        13                      But you are a very lucky couple

        14       and I know, Madelyn, how happy you are, really,

        15       to have Chris home.  You know, we're going to

        16       miss him, but I guess really you deserve him

        17       more than we did.

        18                      But, Chris, it's been a great 20

        19       years -- 20 years, and I can't tell you how much

        20       I appreciate you as a friend and admire you as a

        21       person.  I'm not being hyperbolic when I say

        22       that you are a man of unusual character, great

        23       integrity, and just so much love in you.  The











                                                             
8336

         1       way you mention someone's name when you talk to

         2       them, you can feel the affection.

         3                      I'm so happy for both of you.

         4       Chris, you are getting to be a judge, and I know

         5       how badly you wanted to become a judge.  I also

         6       know how much you are going to miss this place.

         7       I know how much you are going to miss us, and I

         8       want you to know how much we are going to miss

         9       you.

        10                      The worst thing about

        11       establishing these kinds of relations is that

        12       you have a night like tonight, and we can look

        13       ahead and see the void I'll feel and the sadness

        14       I'll feel when I walk in this room and look at

        15       that chair and you're not there.

        16                      God bless.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator LaValle.

        18                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.  Tonight really is a wonderful

        20       evening for the institution of the Senate

        21       because one of our members is moving on to

        22       something that he both wants and has aspired to.

        23                      While we come from different











                                                             
8337

         1       parts of the state and have different points of

         2       view, it is very interesting how we really are

         3       an extended family.

         4                      When I mention family, I think

         5       everyone knows how important family is to Chris,

         6       his wife, his children.  Go into his office,

         7       grandchildren, enormous pictures.

         8                      Chris, just but a few short weeks

         9       ago, you as chairman of your committee handled a

        10       very delicate matter, and it was mentioned by

        11       one of our colleagues.  You handled it with a

        12       great deal of finesse, professionalism, and I

        13       think if there was ever a moment that showed you

        14       had the temperament, the skill, the intellect,

        15       to handle something, you demonstrated it at that

        16       point in time.

        17                      You have been a wonderful member

        18       of this chamber.  You have contributed and

        19       represented your district with great, great

        20       distinction.  What greater tribute can a member

        21       receive when members of the opposition party say

        22       what a wonderful job that you have done and

        23       acclaimed by the people that you represent.











                                                             
8338

         1                      Our conference obviously will

         2       never be the same because you say what you mean

         3       and you mean what you say.  And we have always

         4       respected you for your honesty and your candor.

         5       It is really in great joy that all of us have

         6       risen tonight to really wish you the very best

         7       of luck, and we know you will make a wonderful

         8       judge.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Velella.

        10                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Chris, it seems

        11       almost impossible for me to believe that it's

        12       almost 20 years since you came to the

        13       Legislature when I was just a freshman

        14       Assemblyman.  You came two years after me in

        15       1974, and there are not too many people that are

        16       here now that remember that famous "F Troop"

        17       that Senator Maltese alluded to, and that very

        18       few probably didn't know that it was knowingly

        19       Chris Mega who named the group.

        20                      See, we were a group of six or

        21       seven Republican Assemblymen that used to meet

        22       every Monday morning, and we would formulate

        23       positions to give to our leadership about what











                                                             
8339

         1       we wanted as city issues.  And unbelievably

         2       every Monday morning all six or seven of us

         3       would come up with 12 different positions for

         4       the city of New York to be taking.  Chris got up

         5       one morning and said, "This is like being a

         6       member of F Troop," and that name stuck.  Every

         7       day after that we all became affectionately

         8       known as "F Troop".

         9                      But I also remember another night

        10       similar to this, Chris, the night that Senator

        11       Conklin announced that he was retiring from the

        12       Senate, and we were over in the Fort Orange

        13       Club.  Perry Duryea was giving a party for the

        14       Minority Assemblymen.

        15                      And he had a really tough

        16       decision to make that night.  He'd been

        17       threatened with a primary, a tough election and

        18       possibly not coming back to the Legislature at

        19       all if he ran for the Senate, and then the

        20       opportunity to have a very safe Assembly seat

        21       that you could have run for without opposition.

        22       And I know the agony you went through that night

        23       trying to make that decision, and I know the











                                                             
8340

         1       feeling you have tonight is probably very much

         2       similar to it, starting out a new career,

         3       thinking about leaving the Legislature.  All I

         4       can tell you is you made the right decision that

         5       night.  You became a great Senator.  You are

         6       making the right decision tonight.  You are

         7       going to be an even greater judge.

         8                      Good luck.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        10                      SENATOR LACK:  Chris, you know

        11       when we came here together, Charlie, John Daly,

        12       you, Mary Goodhue, Wally Floss and myself, I

        13       first met you at the room lottery, and we all

        14       picked for room and you lost; that is, you were

        15       number 6, and you got the office suite without a

        16       conference room, and we sort of all smiled and

        17       you said, "That's okay.  I will get back at you

        18       all one of these days."

        19                      And, in fact, you have because I

        20       don't think John or Charlie would mind my saying

        21       of the six of us who came together, the nicest

        22       one is leaving us tonight.  And I know when I

        23       first came here, and you will remember, a good











                                                             
8341

         1       political friend of ours in Smithtown took me

         2       aside and said, "Look, you haven't run for

         3       election before.  You won.  You are going up to

         4       the Senate.  It's a group of collegial people

         5       and it's a club, and you should learn to get

         6       along and follow my good friend Chris Mega from

         7       Brooklyn."

         8                      I never much learned to follow

         9       you.  You certainly have my apologies for that.

        10       I wish I had.  You taught a very good lesson in

        11       judicial temperament this week, as you well

        12       know, when with a very difficult bill that was

        13       before us with some judges throughout the state

        14       complaining mightily, you showed a judicial

        15       temperament by taking a couple of judges down

        16       very well in their own courtroom and handling it

        17       superbly, such that that bill can be reported

        18       and passed this evening.

        19                      I know about three hours ago, you

        20       were sitting in your chair and the room was

        21       empty.  I caught you looking around the room,

        22       and I assume what you were doing was memorizing

        23       that which was never finished here, memorizing











                                                             
8342

         1       the way it looks, thinking about the fifteen

         2       years that you have served here with us in the

         3       Senate and the memories that you are going to

         4       take with you.

         5                      It's almost fitting that it's

         6       almost twenty of 2:00 in the morning, and that's

         7       one memory certainly of the Senate, and I want

         8       you to know that like that television commercial

         9       for the airline when that one poor reservation

        10       clerk has to speak to all those people in a rain

        11       storm late in the evening, that come next year

        12       at this time there's going to be 60 Senators

        13       placing a call at twenty of 2:00 in the morning

        14       to you, and each one of us are going to spend

        15       the whole night repeating this whole situation

        16       to you so you don't feel that you have been left

        17       out of our deliberations next year.

        18                      Good luck, Chris.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question

        20       occurs on the confirmation of the nominee.

        21                      Senator Marchi.

        22                      SENATOR MARCHI:  When I came into

        23       the chamber, Mr. President, I overheard Senator











                                                             
8343

         1       Markowitz saying who is the favorite Republican

         2       in Kings County.  I have to confess to a little

         3       anxiety in Staten Island, because when that same

         4       question was made in Staten Island with

         5       disturbing regularity they would come back,

         6       "Mega, of course."

         7                      Some 40 years ago, when I first

         8       came here, the triad of committees, Rules,

         9       Finance and Judiciary, withstood in the eyes of

        10       people who had been there and telling war

        11       stories about the Judiciary Committee, from as

        12       far back as anyone could remember the mystique

        13       that was always attached to the Judiciary

        14       Committee and the importance which it had on the

        15       functions of government in this state.  And

        16       certainly I believe anybody who has been here

        17       any length of time will remember the different

        18       individuals who have covered that

        19       responsibility.  They've all been uniquely good

        20       and fine people, but I don't think anybody can

        21       match the service that was given and the service

        22       that was rendered by Chris Mega.

        23                      It was a very superlative quality











                                                             
8344

         1       about it that certainly elicited this wealth of

         2       commentary from all of your colleagues, and as

         3       Senator Padavan pointed out, this must certainly

         4       be a big factor in your life as you look around

         5       this chamber.

         6                      There is an old spiritual and

         7       religious refrain which -- response which I

         8       certainly remember very fondly and recited from

         9       time to time.  "It is right and just," and all

        10       of these statements are being made because of

        11       the great affection and the great esteem and

        12       respect that they have for you, Chris, and they

        13       are going to serve you in great and good stead

        14       as you deliver your responsibilities in your

        15       next assignment, and you are going to be that

        16       judge that so many of us are saying, and you're

        17       going to do that with this recollection.

        18                      I think you will remember this

        19       moment, as will Madelyn, this very fine moment

        20       that we all shared together in professing this

        21       affection and respect that we have for you.

        22                      God bless you, Chris.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Onorato.











                                                             
8345

         1                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President,

         2       I rise to join my colleagues in paying a special

         3       tribute to Senator Mega.  I served with him for

         4       ten years, and it's been one of the most

         5       outstanding and pleasurable ten years that I've

         6       had the opportunity of knowing Chris, and I

         7       can't think of a better time, after being

         8       sequestered in Albany for ten days, that we

         9       should cap it off by having Chris join his

        10       family and his grandchildren. He only has

        11       three.  He'll have time now to prompt them to

        12       catch up to me with my five grandchildren so we

        13       can continue comparing notes.

        14                      Again, I want to wish you the

        15       very, very best, you and your family.

        16                      God bless you all.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        18       Oppenheimer.

        19                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.  We're here to talk about our

        21       dear friend who is leaving for a position that

        22       he has always wanted.  I think I am the latest

        23       and last person to have seen the famous Mega











                                                             
8346

         1       picture gallery.

         2                      On Monday morning, I was roaming

         3       around trying to find some coffee and milk and,

         4       of course, I wandered into Chris' office and got

         5       treated to the display, the magnificent display

         6       of photographs, with a story behind each

         7       photograph, and that really tells us a great

         8       deal about this man and about what's important

         9       in his life, and his family is the paramount,

        10       the most important thing in his life.

        11                      I think one other thing that I

        12       particularly love about Chris is the twinkle in

        13       his eye.  He's got just this very delicious

        14       twinkle which crops up whenever he is tweaking

        15       one of us.

        16                      But I think the reason we all

        17       believe he will make a great judge is because he

        18       is a wonderful people person.  He has such a

        19       fondness for all of us.  He makes each one of us

        20       feel important, and he listens so attentively

        21       when we speak.  And also I think it's not just

        22       that he listens to us, but I think one of the

        23       reasons he will make a great judge is because he











                                                             
8347

         1       is intellectually honest, which is what we all

         2       have been saying, and the other component of a

         3       great judge is that he was compassionate, and I

         4       think he consolidates all these into one very

         5       extraordinary person.

         6                      I'm very happy for him.  I'm

         7       somewhat sad for us, but I know this is what he

         8       wants to do, and I wish him much success in his

         9       future, and we all will be missing him.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Smith.

        11                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.  There is no way possible that I can

        13       let this evening go by without adding my voice

        14       to those of my colleagues.

        15                      In the five years that I have

        16       been here, I have been blessed with the

        17       friendship of Chris Mega, many times giving me

        18       advice when very much needed, and I will always

        19       think of his compassion and caring, and someone

        20       from the other end of Brooklyn who has always

        21       been there for someone on the other side of the

        22       aisle.

        23                      It's rewarding to know that good











                                                             
8348

         1       things come to those who wait.  Chris truly

         2       deserves this opportunity. I know that he will

         3       do well.

         4                      And to Chris and Madelyn, my very

         5       best to you and may you be happy in all of your

         6       endeavors, and I look forward to hearing great

         7       things from you on the bench.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gonzalez.

         9                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      I think that I also rise for -

        12       to pay tribute to Chris Mega, who I know that

        13       will, as what he wants as a judge.

        14                      But in my four years here, every

        15       time I approach Chris Mega on any issue and he

        16       handles it diligently and fairly.  And, Chris, I

        17       want you to know that as far as all of us here

        18       that it's great that all my colleagues and us

        19       pay tribute to you, but you did it the

        20       old-fashioned way.  You earned it, and I think

        21       that you will be a great judge.

        22                      And God bless you and your

        23       family.  Thank you.











                                                             
8349

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       question occurs on the confirmation of the

         3       nominee.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Party vote.

         5                      (Laughter. )

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         7       Question occurs on the confirmation of the

         8       nominee.  All those in favor say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Those opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The ayes have it.  The nominee is

        13       confirmed.

        14                      (Whereupon, there was a standing

        15       ovation. )

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        18       Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  May we return

        20       to reports of standing committees, please.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        22       Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,











                                                             
8350

         1       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         2       following bills directly for third reading.

         3                      (Whereupon, there was a pause in

         4       the proceedings. )

         5                      Senator Marino, from the

         6       Committee on Rules, reports the following bills

         7       directly for third reading:

         8                      Senate Bill Number 925, by

         9       Senator Skelos, General Municipal Law.

        10                      2146A, by Senator Goodman,

        11       Education Law.

        12                      4427A, by Senator Kuhl,

        13       Transportation Law.

        14                      5209C, by Senator Larkin, Real

        15       Property Tax Law.

        16                      5287A, by Senators Mega and

        17       others, General City Law.

        18                      5356A, by Senator Larkin, an act

        19       to amend the Penal Law.

        20                      5815A, by Senator Nolan, Public

        21       Authorities Law.

        22                      6119, by Senator Larkin,

        23       authorizing the lease of certain facilities of











                                                             
8351

         1       the Middletown Psychiatric Center.

         2                      6173A, by the Committee on Rules,

         3       providing for the development and modernization

         4       of the major league sports facility.

         5                      6185, by Senator Larkin, amends a

         6       chapter of the laws of 1993.

         7                      6192, Senate Budget Bill, amends

         8       chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993, enacting the

         9       State Operations Budget.

        10                      6199, by Senator Johnson, an act

        11       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.

        12                      6200, by the Committee on Rules,

        13       Civil Practice Law and Rules.

        14                      6203, by the Committee on Rules,

        15       Environmental Conservation Law.

        16                      All bills reported directly for

        17       third reading.

        18                      (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in

        19       the chair. )

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

        21       bills are reported directly to third reading.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Calendar 1655,

        23       Mr. President.











                                                             
8352

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Calendar 1655.  The Secretary will read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1655, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         5       Bill Number 6193, granting access to certain

         6       records maintained by the Division of Criminal

         7       Justice Services.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Padavan.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        11       is there a message?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

        13       is.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Move we accept

        15       it.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

        17       those in favor of accepting the message, say

        18       aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Those opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The message is accepted.

        23                      Read the last section.











                                                             
8353

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays 2,

         6       Senators Bruno and Farley recorded in the

         7       negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Nolan is also in the negative.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Is there a

        11       message?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

        13       is.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Move we accept

        15       the message.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All in

        17       favor of accepting the message?  It's received

        18       and accepted.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Read the last

        20       section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8354

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays 2,

         2       Senators Bruno and Farley recorded in the

         3       negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  On the regular

         7       calendar, we'll go back to 1255.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         9       Secretary will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  There's a message

        11       here also; I'm sorry.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1255, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number -

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There's

        15       a message I think.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, I move to

        17       accept the message.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  It's a

        19       little noisy; I didn't hear it.  All in favor of

        20       accepting the message, say aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye.")

        22                      Those opposed, nay.  The message

        23       is accepted.











                                                             
8355

         1                      Could we lay it aside for a

         2       second, Senator Padavan?  There is a sub that is

         3       coming in momentarily.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I was waiting.

         5       O.K. We'll lay that aside for the moment.

         6                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         8       Pataki.

         9                      SENATOR PATAKI:  I would request

        10       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        11       on Calendar 1669.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1669,

        13       Senator Pataki is in the negative.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        15       may we go to 1661, please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1661,

        17       Secretary will read.  That's on the second

        18       supplemental calendar.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        20       Supplemental Calendar Number 2.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        22       Calendar Number 2, Senate Bill 1661, substituted

        23       earlier, by member of the Assembly Koppell,











                                                             
8356

         1       Assembly Bill 6168-A, Alcoholic Beverage Control

         2       Law.

         3                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         5       Velella.

         6                      SENATOR VELELLA:  This bill will

         7       allow the State Liquor Authority to consider

         8       additional factors before granting licenses to

         9        -- to bars and saloons that sell liquor.  It

        10       will allow the SLA to consider such factors such

        11       as the number and types of licenses nearby and

        12       in proximity to any other licensed premises, the

        13       effect the license will have on traffic, parking

        14       and noise, the history of liquor violations and

        15       reported criminal activity at the proposed

        16       premises, whether all state and local licenses

        17       and permits have been granted and other relevant

        18       statutory factors or rules or regulations of the

        19       Authority to consider the public convenience to

        20       such a facility.

        21                      This is in response to an over

        22       saturation of bars that have been proliferat

        23       ing a number of residential communities.











                                                             
8357

         1       Assemblyman Koppell and I have experienced this

         2       problem in two very important areas of our

         3       district which we share together, and I believe

         4       that it would give the Liquor Authority the

         5       opportunity to consider all of the relevant

         6       factors.

         7                      At this point, when residents

         8       have gone down to the Liquor Authority to

         9       complain against the opening of additional

        10       premises, they have responded that so long as

        11       the applicant has met all of the statutory

        12       requirements, that they could not do anything

        13       else except grant the license.  This will allow

        14       them to figure the public convenience, consider

        15       rather the public convenience and necessity, in

        16       granting such licenses.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        19       Gold.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        21       yield to a question?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        23       Velella, I'm sure he will.











                                                             
8358

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Velella,

         3       first of all, have you discussed this with the

         4       chairman of the Liquor Authority, by any chance?

         5                      SENATOR VELELLA:  I haven't

         6       discussed it with him, no.  He is aware of it

         7       and it is as a result of communications with

         8       Assemblyman Koppell and myself concerning estab

         9       lishments that were opening in our communities

        10       that he is aware of, but he did not express to

        11       us whether he was against or for it.  He just

        12       was -- is aware that that was what we were going

        13       to do and to some -- to some degree -- to some

        14       degree has recognized the fact that his

        15       abilities were limited in the past in dealing

        16       with these problems.

        17                      I've just been advised that on

        18       the "A" print, he has supported it.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  Will

        20       you yield to another question?

        21                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Let me tell you

        23       what bothers me about the bill, Senator, and











                                                             
8359

         1       maybe you could comment directly on that.  I've

         2       spoken to the chairman of the Liquor Authority a

         3       number of times about various things.  His

         4       philosophy, as he explained it to me, is that he

         5       runs an agency and it is for the state

         6       Legislature to make overall policy for the

         7       state, so if we decide, for example, to

         8       eliminate the 200-foot restriction on churches

         9       and synagogues, that's a decision for the

        10       Legislature.  If we decide to limit licenses,

        11       that's a decision for the Legislature.

        12                      But what I'm concerned about is

        13       on page 1, line 7, the number, classes,

        14       character of licenses and proximity to the

        15       location and in a particular municipality.

        16       That's a consideration.  Then on page 2, line 9,

        17       any other factors specified by law or regulation

        18       that are relevant to determine the public

        19       convenience.

        20                      Senator, that is one of the

        21       broadest grants of regulatory authority I think

        22       I've seen in 22 years in this house.  We have,

        23       time and time again, seen legislation offered











                                                             
8360

         1       mostly by the Republicans in this house to cut

         2       back on the agencies, to have them comply with

         3       law, stop them from over-reaching and then we

         4       get language in a bill like this.

         5                      There is no direction.  I mean

         6       the chairman of the Authority, who I respect

         7       believes that we should be giving direction.

         8       All we're doing in this bill, Senator, is giving

         9       some of the hugest generalities I've ever seen

        10       in legislation, and then a huge grant of law -

        11       of rule-making authority.  Where is the

        12       direction?

        13                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, let me

        14       respond by saying that I know you've had a lot

        15       of experience prior to the prohibition that we

        16       put in barring legislators from practicing in

        17       the SLA.  I know that both you and I have had

        18       experience in practicing, and public convenience

        19       and necessity has always been part of what was

        20       considered by the Authority in granting

        21       applications.

        22                      We're just codifying that

        23       tradition and public convenience and necessity











                                                             
8361

         1       is something that I think is really necessary in

         2       the area where we're regulating an item such as

         3       alcoholic beverages.  There is a tremendous

         4       possibility of destroying neighborhoods,

         5       communities, when bars open and they become very

         6       saturated.

         7                      I think that giving this broad

         8       scope to the Authority merely implements the

         9       public policy of this state, but we must be very

        10       careful in allowing bars and premises that serve

        11       alcoholic beverages.  I think that it gives the

        12       opportunity for communities such as you

        13       represent and I represent to go to the Authority

        14       and to say, Enough is enough in our community.

        15       We don't need a strip of 14 bars.

        16                      There are a lot of college towns

        17       that are very much in support of this concept

        18       that, near colleges, a lot of bars have opened.

        19       I have that particular problem in New Rochelle

        20       which I share with Senator Oppenheimer, and in

        21       the Bronx where I represent the Riverdale

        22       community, the Woodlawn community.  This has

        23       become a major problem, and this will give the











                                                             
8362

         1       Authority some teeth to police effectively those

         2       premises that serve alcoholic beverages.

         3                      I think it's worthy of the

         4       broadest possible language and I hope the

         5       Commissioner or the Commission will implement it

         6       in the broadest possible way to preserve

         7       communities and not let these establishments

         8       come in and destroy them.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Gold.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        13       from my -- from my point of view, I understand

        14       some of the problems that have occurred in var

        15       ious areas, and I certainly have no philosophi

        16       cal objection to there being some overall

        17       control by the State Liquor Authority and, when

        18       Senator Velella puts in language which talks

        19       about them considering the number and kinds and

        20       characters of licenses in an area, if that is

        21       the desire of the public policy of this state,

        22       it seems to me that that is easily definable.

        23                      But I'm going to vote against the











                                                             
8363

         1       bill because I'm -- I have heard on this floor

         2       and I've heard in the Administrative Regulations

         3       Commission and other places, time and time

         4       again, criticism of the agencies, and what we

         5       are doing in this piece of legislation is

         6       exactly what we criticized them for.  We are

         7       giving them total authority.

         8                      The Liquor Authority was taken to

         9       court within the last few years on one of their

        10       regulations dealing with police focal points and

        11       they lost the case.  Senator Ohrenstein and

        12       others have been working on legislation and, as

        13       a matter of fact, I think Senator Ohrenstein

        14       worked out language which I think is terrific,

        15       which would give the Authority the right to walk

        16       in where there was noise problems and other

        17       problems created by licensed premises in the

        18       community.

        19                      But the difference between

        20       Senator Ohrenstein's legislation and this is

        21       that there is direction from the Legislature in

        22       setting up a law.  In this situation, there is

        23       no direction given at all at the end of this











                                                             
8364

         1       bill, and it is exactly the kind of thing that

         2       the Republicans in this house are going to be

         3       talking about next session and the session after

         4       that, just as you have in the past.

         5                      Huge grants of authority to the

         6       agencies, and then you're going to come in with

         7       your business permit legislation and your other

         8       legislation about how businesses are getting

         9       killed by the agencies and we have to do

        10       something about it.  This bill opens up that

        11       door.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 3,

        20       Senators Gold, Kuhl and Nolan recorded in the

        21       negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
8365

         1                      Senator Sheffer, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  I'd ask for

         3       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         4       on Calendar Number 1655, please.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  Without

         6       objection, Senator Sheffer in the negative on

         7       1655.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  Senator

        10       Padavan.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  May I have

        12       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        13       on 1655, please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:  Without

        15       objection, Senator Padavan is in the negative on

        16       1655.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Now, go to

        18       Calendar Number 1662.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

        21       Gold.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Before we start on

        23       this, may I make an inquiry of the chair? There











                                                             
8366

         1       was a Rules report, I think it's a Rules Report

         2       Number 3, and I believe on the Rules report,

         3       there was a Senate bill 6173, is that correct?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Do you

         5       know the calendar number?

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  I wouldn't.  I'm

         7       just looking at the Rules report.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Yes, it's

         9       1679, 6173-A.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Mr.

        11       President, I have in front of me the Rules

        12       agenda, and it is my understanding, Mr.

        13       President, that in the Rules Committee we voted

        14       out 6173.  I would like to know how 6173, which

        15       I read and other people read, became 6173-A some

        16       place between Room 332 and the desk of the

        17       Senate chamber.  There was no amendment

        18       discussed in Rules, that I recall.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator,

        20       would you give us some time to check that out?

        21       We'll lay that bill aside and we'll get back to

        22       you as soon as we have an answer.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  No, no, I











                                                             
8367

         1       understand we're not on the bill, but I -- if

         2       there is an irregularity, I want it cleared up

         3       early.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator,

         5       I understand that, appreciate it, and we

         6       certainly will do that as quickly as we can.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         8       Senator Galiber -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

        10       Padavan.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Calendar 1662.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Calendar

        13       1662.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1662, substituted earlier today, by member of

        16       the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Bill Number

        17       6655-B, Civil Practice Law and Rules.

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

        20       Volker.

        21                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        22       this bill is a negotiated bill with the Assembly

        23       as regards privileged communications between an











                                                             
8368

         1       employee member of a bargaining unit and an

         2       elected union official.

         3                      The reason for this bill is the

         4       somewhat unique status of elected union

         5       officials in a police organization.  I think

         6       most people don't realize that law enforcement

         7       officers in a police organization not only swear

         8       to uphold the law, but are also bound by rules

         9       that people in ordinary organizations are not.

        10                      What has happened is that a

        11       police officer elected official on a number of

        12       occasions has been put in a situation where

        13       someone who has been either charged with a

        14       violation or in some cases a crime, has been -

        15       a communication has been made with that person

        16       asking advice.  In one case, the union -

        17       elected union official was asked the advice and

        18       the recommendation for an attorney was made.

        19       The district attorney, as part of the

        20       investigation, subpoenaed the union official and

        21       asked questions concerning the communication

        22       with that law enforcement officer and the

        23       elected union official.











                                                             
8369

         1                      The -- in the normal organization

         2       that situation would not occur.  The law

         3       enforcement officer is bound by his, in some

         4       cases by his oath of office, and also by

         5       department regulations to reveal the source of

         6       that communication and the communication

         7       itself.

         8                      I think one thing, I think,

         9       probably is not well known here is, I guess I

        10       have some idea of this since I was at one time

        11       an elected law enforcement police union

        12       official, and, although we rarely got into this

        13       kind of thing, there were several times when the

        14       possibility was there in a little different

        15       context by the local village boards, and I had a

        16       number of problems with the local bargaining

        17       agent, so to speak, because of some of the

        18       discussions that were between myself and various

        19       members of the police department.

        20                      So I guess I have some

        21       understanding of what this is all about.  I

        22       think the thing, I think, that should be

        23       understood is that there is a different











                                                             
8370

         1       relationship between police officer elected

         2       union officials and normal individuals who are

         3       part of a regular organization who might report

         4       to them.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

         7       Waldon.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would Senator

         9       Volker yield?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Would you

        11       yield?

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Absolutely.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

        14       will yield.

        15                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, I think

        16       perhaps to clarify for some of our colleagues,

        17       maybe you and I should have this short

        18       colloquy.  Let me create a hypothetical for

        19       you.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  M-m h-m-m.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  You are the

        22       union rep'; an officer has, in fact, committed a

        23       crime, and he shares with you what has











                                                             
8371

         1       happened.  You represent him before the tribunal

         2       in the department and then after the case is

         3       tried or before the case is tried or even during

         4       the time that you're trying the case, a

         5       superior officer comes to you and gives you a

         6       direct order to tell him everything that's

         7       happened.

         8                      Under the regs, as you understand

         9       them, of all of the police departments in the

        10       state, are you duty-bound to tell that superior

        11       officer?

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I think you are,

        13       yes, that's correct.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  And I agree.

        15       Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Read the

        17       last section.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Wait a minute.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

        20       Gold, I'm sorry.

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER:  I asked for an

        22       explanation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Excuse











                                                             
8372

         1       me, Senator, I did not know that.

         2                      Senator Galiber.

         3                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, will

         4       you yield for a couple of questions?

         5                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Certainly,

         6       Senator.

         7                      SENATOR GALIBER:  The last

         8       section here, it says, This act shall take

         9       effect immediately and shall apply to

        10       communication made on or after such effective

        11       date.

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Right.

        13                      SENATOR GALIBER:  If this bill

        14       passes and ultimately becomes law, would this

        15       apply to an ongoing investigation or pending

        16       matters before the police department?

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  No.

        18                      SENATOR GALIBER:  And more

        19       importantly, why?

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  No, because the

        21       communication would have to be after the date of

        22       this bill, so any communications that were made

        23       prior to the date of this bill it would not











                                                             
8373

         1       apply to.

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Fine.  Senator,

         3       let me give you a couple of hypotheticals.

         4                      If a police officer on one of

         5       those rare occasions, and I want to make that

         6       crystal clear, rare occasions where a police

         7       officer might shoot a youngster in the street

         8       and he goes to someone, the PBA, and he's wrong

         9       and he tells the PBA about that, could that PBA

        10       officer or any official in the police department

        11       reveal what was told to him about the error that

        12       he made or the wrongdoing that he did in terms

        13       of shooting that youngster or adult, or anyone,

        14       for that matter?

        15                      SENATOR VOLKER:  So what you're

        16       saying, Senator, is that if the law enforcement

        17       officer, after this bill is passed, approached a

        18       union official and asked for advice, the elected

        19       union official and asked for advice, and

        20       appraised him of the fact that he had either

        21       committed a crime or what might be considered a

        22       crime, would that union official -- would that

        23       be considered a privileged -- privileged











                                                             
8374

         1       information?  The answer is yes.

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  O.K.  Senator,

         3       you've had lengthy experience with the police;

         4       you've been a police officer and you also tell

         5       us tonight which I didn't know, that you were a

         6       PBA officer.  You mentioned at the outset that

         7       police officers are sworn to uphold the law.

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Right.

         9                      SENATOR GALIBER:  So what you're

        10       saying to me, if we pass this piece of

        11       legislation and someone tells a PBA officer that

        12       they have not upheld the law, that they've

        13       committed a wrong, this police officer who was

        14       sworn to uphold the law who, in my best

        15       judgment, carries another level of respect than

        16       the average person, in some instances more so

        17       than even lawyers, would not be able to uphold

        18       the law.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I

        20       don't -

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER: He would, in

        22       reality, without that confidentiality, he may

        23       very well be in the category of maybe











                                                             
8375

         1       compounding.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         3       pardon the interruption.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Senator

         5       Padavan.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Immediate

         7       meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT DALY:  Immediate

         9       meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332.

        10                      Senator Galiber.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  That is

        12       compounding a felony.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  That is not

        14       compounding the felony.  I don't agree with you

        15       I think the problem here is, and I think you've

        16       kind of developed a complex problem here.  How

        17       is a union official to operate if anything said

        18       to him by a person who is alleged to have

        19       committed a crime or may have even committed a

        20       crime, cannot trust that the advice that he

        21       gives, the information that is given him would

        22       not be revealed.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER: But, Senator -











                                                             
8376

         1                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I think it is a

         2        -- I think, Senator, that the problem, espec

         3       ially -- if you'll notice, by the way, in the

         4       bill, we talk about if the person -- what is not

         5       exempt is that if the person talks about

         6       committing a crime and there's a specific reason

         7       for that being in there for obvious reasons

         8       because the law enforcement officer's duty could

         9       supersede that, if a person says they're going

        10       to commit a crime and that law enforcement

        11       officer has the duty to try to prevent it and,

        12       therefore, if that is discussed, then, that

        13       certainly wouldn't be privileged, but it seems

        14       very difficult to see how or why it wouldn't be

        15       something that should be thought to be

        16       privileged information, otherwise the union

        17       official would not be somebody it would seem

        18       that the fellow would ever approach.

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yeah, Senator,

        20       you and I understand that.  That's not what the

        21       point of this inquiry is.

        22                      Let me speak on the bill,

        23       Senator.











                                                             
8377

         1                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes, Senator.

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  There's no one

         3       who has more respect for the police department

         4       than I do.  What you're suggesting in this piece

         5       of legislation that all the horrible things, and

         6       I can read off a number of things that have

         7       occurred, from police officers selling drugs to

         8       killing people and doing horrible things, Rodney

         9       King situation.

        10                      Under your piece of legislation,

        11       if it wasn't for the photography, that if this

        12       had been told to some other police officer, and

        13       then that inquiry was asked, or there was an

        14       inquiry, he would not be able or she would not

        15       be able to divulge what actually happened out

        16       there.

        17                      The narcotic sales that we've

        18       heard so much about recently, all the corruption

        19       that is involved.  But what I'm suggesting,

        20       Senator, is that the police department in your

        21       judgment and my judgment -- I've heard you loud

        22       and clear for a number of years, there's another

        23       layer out there.  There's this whole notion of











                                                             
8378

         1       silence within the police department, the recent

         2       assault on City Hall by a police officer in the

         3       city of New York, not Buffalo, in the city of

         4       New York, who did horrible damage, the name

         5       calling, what they're calling it at that

         6       particular point in time.

         7                      Someone admitted during the

         8       course of the investigation that this is what

         9       occurred.  That person would not be able to, in

        10       an administrative hearing, be able to reveal

        11       that, and I'm saying that the police department,

        12       a very thin line we keep talking about is a

        13       category that doesn't warrant the kind of con

        14       fidentiality that we make reference to where

        15       lawyers are concerned, and we fought this area

        16       of confidentiality along the lines through the

        17       years and we've given it to another group, but

        18       police officers who are sworn to uphold the law

        19       you want to give them a vehicle through which,

        20       if someone comes to them and says, Yes, I

        21       committed a crime; yes, I did this, and there's

        22       not many of them.  I keep reiterating that.

        23       You, under this piece of legislation, say you











                                                             
8379

         1       don't have to talk about it.  In fact, you can

         2       declare confidentiality.

         3                      Everything -- the piece of

         4       legislation, Senator, in my best judgment, I

         5       know where you're going, is not a good piece of

         6       legislation.  It leaves an awful lot to be

         7       desired.  It's a quarter past two in the

         8       morning.  You've got the votes to get this

         9       passed.  I just wanted to make the record

        10       clear.

        11                      I don't believe that the

        12       incidents where police officers have knowledge

        13       of crimes that have been committed by their

        14       fellow officers should have a vehicle or a means

        15       by which they can hide behind that crime and

        16       say, "I have confidentiality, therefore, I don't

        17       have to -- I do not have to answer to any

        18       investigation," whether it be an administrative

        19       hearing or no.

        20                      This confidentiality that you

        21       make reference to is merely an instrumentality

        22       through which the police department can hide

        23       behind errors that they've made.











                                                             
8380

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         4       Volker.

         5                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

         6       Senator Galiber, you're absolutely wrong.

         7       Senator, your reference to a police department,

         8       let me specifically remind you, this is an

         9       elected union official.  Your reference to the

        10       Rodney King officer is absolutely incorrect.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  A question,

        12       Senator.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, Senator.

        14                      SENATOR GALIBER: Is this police

        15       officer a part of the police department or no?

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  He is a part of

        17       the police department, but he is an elec... the

        18       reason we're specific about an elected public

        19       police officer.  In the Rodney King case, that

        20       never was any question.  Police officers were

        21       police officers, Senator; that's what I'm trying

        22       to point out to you.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  But that police











                                                             
8381

         1       officer -- Senator, if that police officer after

         2       that occurrence -

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER: M-m h-m-m.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER: -- had gone to a

         5       PBA officer, elected, and said, without the film

         6       or anything else, "This is what I did, struck so

         7       and so and so and so; I committed a crime.  I

         8       did such and such and such and such," in the

         9       course of the investigation, if that police

        10       officer who is elected, who is part of a police

        11       department, was called under this piece of

        12       legislation, he could say -- declare confiden

        13       tiality and not disclose any of it; is that

        14       correct?

        15                      SENATOR VOLKER:  That's correct,

        16       Senator.

        17                      SENATOR GALIBER:  And he is part

        18       of the police department.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER: Right.

        20                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Whatever the

        21       city may be.

        22                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Right.  Just as

        23       if he went to his lawyer, it would be the same











                                                             
8382

         1       way.  In fact, Senator, what you would be doing

         2       here in effect is, remember, Senator, what

         3       you're saying is that that law enforcement

         4       officer would not be able to ask the elected

         5       official to get himself an attorney.

         6                      Just think about that for a

         7       second.  He doesn't know what an attorney is to

         8       get.  He would then not be able to have it

         9       privileged information that he asked that

        10       attorney, or that he asked for an attorney

        11       because of such and such.  I don't think that's

        12       unreasonable, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR GALIBER:  It's not

        14       unreasonable but, if that person has committed a

        15       crime, the very crime that he's sworn to protect

        16       the public, if that officer has committed a

        17       crime and then goes to the elected PBA and tells

        18       them,  Yes, I committed this crime, or Yes, I

        19       planted this gun, or Yes, I did whatever is

        20       wrong, under this piece of legislation if there

        21       is an investigation into it, that police officer

        22       duly elected, part of the police department,

        23       would not be able to testify in the grand jury











                                                             
8383

         1       because he would be declared constitutionality

         2       and, Senator, it's not the same thing as being a

         3       lawyer and a doctor, and you know it as well as

         4       I do.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         6       Leichter.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         8       would Senator Volker yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        10       Volker, would you yield to Senator Leichter?

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        12       Volker, if there is a social interest and

        13       purpose in having members of a union disclose

        14       information in confidentiality to collective

        15       bargaining agents, why should it just be the

        16       police department?  Why not -

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER: Senator -

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no.  Let me

        19       finish.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Senator, I can

        21       tell you exactly because normal -- in ordinary

        22       organizations, they just don't have the same

        23       relationship.  You are asking the exact reverse











                                                             
8384

         1       of the question that Senator Galiber asked me.

         2       The reason is very clear, Senator.  They do not

         3       have the same kind of obligation that a law en

         4       forcement officer has when these kinds of

         5       things are revealed to him, and that's the

         6       problem.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Excuse me.

         8       Senator, I, with all due respect, maybe it's the

         9       hour but I must say I didn't understand your

        10       answer at all.

        11                      Confidentiality, when we grant

        12       it, is based because there's a social interest

        13       and purpose.  We want people to go to doctors

        14       and tell them what their ailment is, to say

        15       maybe that they've been with a prostitute or

        16       whatever because the doctor has to know

        17       everything to treat 'em.

        18                      Similarly, we made a

        19       confidentiality protection for rape guidance

        20       counselors.  We did it this session because we

        21       want people to tell that counselor everything.

        22       There's a social interest and purpose.  If -

        23       and I don't see it frankly -- there is a social











                                                             
8385

         1       interest and purpose in having a member of the

         2        -- of the police force tell his elected

         3       bargaining agent or representative who is

         4       elected, and to give confidentiality to that

         5       disclosure, why wouldn't it apply to the fire

         6       department?  How about the sanitation

         7       department? What's the difference?

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  And let me

         9       answer that question.  Because those people do

        10       not have the same obligation that a police

        11       officer has, Senator.  The united -- the

        12       transportation officer has no obligation to

        13       disclose right now the way a police officer

        14       does.  That's the difference in the problem.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But -- but,

        16       Senator Volker, the point is that what you're

        17       doing here is that you can not compel testimony

        18       by that particular -- what it was you referred

        19       to, that elected union official.  That's really

        20       the key.  You want to -- it isn't that you want

        21       to preclude and prevent that person from going

        22       to a commanding officer and saying, Hey,

        23       Patrolman Jones has just told me that he shot a











                                                             
8386

         1       kid.  You want to go beyond that.  You want to

         2       keep that elected union official from being

         3       compelled to testify in court.

         4                      SENATOR VOLKER:  That's right,

         5       that's right.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Why wouldn't

         7       that apply to a fireman?

         8                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Because the

         9       fireman does not have the same obligation that a

        10       law enforcement officer has to report at the

        11       present time, Senator.  I think it's pretty

        12       obvious that there is a different relationship

        13       between a law enforcement officer or a fireman

        14       and a member of the transportation union or any

        15       other.  And we're not always talking about a

        16       crime.

        17                      Remember, Senator, we may very

        18       well be talking about some sort of grievance

        19       involved in an overtime or something of that

        20       nature.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Excuse

        22       me a second.  There's an awful lot of

        23       conversations going on throughout the chamber











                                                             
8387

         1       and we'd appreciate if you would take those

         2       conversations outside the chamber.

         3                      Senator Leichter, you have the

         4       floor.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President, just briefly on the bill.  We give

         7       confidentiality when there is a social interest,

         8       when you want that person to tell everything to

         9       the individual that we're going to give

        10       confidentiality.  There is no social interest or

        11       purpose in having a police officer disclose this

        12       information to his union elected official.  If

        13       there were, it would apply equally to other

        14       unions, and I -- I think Senator Volker's

        15       argument that, well, because they're required to

        16       disclose if they know of any infraction or mis

        17       conduct, therefore, we need to give them that

        18       protection, and that differs from other union -

        19       from other unions, to my mind just doesn't make

        20       sense, because it goes just -- it goes beyond

        21       the duty to disclose.

        22                      It also includes the duty whether

        23       you compel that information in court.  But I











                                                             
8388

         1       think the basic issue is, what is the social

         2       interest in having that information disclosed to

         3       an elected union official? I submit there is

         4       none, and to put that elected union official in

         5       the same position as a doctor or as a lawyer or

         6       as a priest, to my mind, is -- is totally

         7       absurd.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         9       Waldon.

        10                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        11       much, Mr. President.

        12                      I would like for Senator Volker

        13       to allow me to ask him a couple of questions,

        14       but before I do that, Senator, permit me to

        15       speak to the military organizations briefly and

        16       paramilitary organizations.

        17                      I think what we're facing here is

        18       relationships that are not unique to any other

        19       work place than a military organization or para

        20       military organizations.

        21                      Senator Volker, do you recall a

        22       General recently, an American General, speaking

        23       in Holland, and he made some negative statements











                                                             
8389

         1       about the President of the United States?

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I certainly do.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  Do you recall

         4       what happened to that General once it became

         5       known that he had made those statements?

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER:  He was severely

         7       punished.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  And he's no

         9       longer in the military, is that correct?

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  My understanding

        11       is he's no longer in the military, yes.

        12                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        13       may I continue, please?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Yes.

        15       Senator Waldon, are you asking Senator Volker to

        16       yield, or are you speaking on the bill?

        17                      SENATOR WALDON: Asking him to

        18       yield.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I continue to

        20       yield.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator Volker,

        22       in your experience as a police officer, does the

        23       same kind of adherence to authority -- is it











                                                             
8390

         1       present in police departments that you're aware

         2       of?

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Basically it

         4       is.  Basically it is, Senator, and although it

         5       can be argued, I guess, that it isn't in the

         6       same degree, but it is the same sort of

         7       operation as a military operation.  In fact,

         8       depending on the type of department even more

         9       so, for instance, State Police.  But virtually

        10       every police organization has the same kind of

        11       standards and the same sort of rules as the

        12       military organization.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  It's been a long

        14       time since you've been a police officer,

        15       Senator, as myself, but I'm sure that you can

        16       recall in your days as the union rep', whenever

        17       anything happened regarding a police officer in

        18       your region, who was the first person called to

        19       be present at the scene when the superior

        20       officers or the district attorney or whomever

        21       was involved in that kind of situation appeared?

        22                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Well, I think,

        23       probably not as much as maybe today.  I don't











                                                             
8391

         1       think that the union rep' was thought of then

         2       but certainly one of the first persons that

         3       would be -- would be called would be the union

         4       rep'.  I think many law enforcement officers

         5       were so in the days when I was there, they were

         6       difficult days, lawyers I think were called

         7       occasionally, but I think you're right, for the

         8       especially the non-serious type of incidents,

         9       very often it was the person who represented

        10       them who was asked to give them advice.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Is it your

        12       recollection, Senator, that the union rep', when

        13       appearing at the scene then and as you are made

        14       aware today from colleagues and friends who are

        15       still in law enforcement, the purpose is for the

        16       union rep' to come there to counsel the police

        17       officer who may or may not be in trouble but

        18       unsure and needs some clarification?

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Exactly.  I

        20       think very many times, I think the thing that

        21       should be thought of that normally these don't

        22       involve necessarily crimes, but they just

        23       involve problems that the law enforcement











                                                             
8392

         1       officer may have with rules and regulations or

         2       something of that nature, and he's looking for

         3       counsel, he or she is looking for counsel, to

         4       determine what -- which direction to take.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, might I

         6       fairly characterize the union rep' who comes to

         7       the scene as a surrogate lawyer who will make

         8       determinations until perhaps a real lawyer is

         9       necessitated?

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I suppose it

        11       could be characterized as that, Senator, and I

        12       think sometimes, I think some of these union

        13       rep's have to be careful because sometimes they

        14       may give some advice that may border on legal

        15       advice, but you're absolutely right.

        16                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        17       much, Mr. President.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        19                      SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very

        20       much, Senator Volker.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        22                      SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator











                                                             
8393

         1       Gold rose first, Senator Galiber.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         3       Senator Volker, will you yield to a question?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         5       Volker, will you yield to Senator Gold?

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  He

         8       will, Senator.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Senator, I

        10       understand the argument made by Senator Waldon

        11       very, very well.  But let me ask you this

        12       question:  Why do we limit it then, if that's

        13       what it is; why do we limit it to this

        14       situation?

        15                      Supposing, for example, a teacher

        16       was in trouble and was charged by a student with

        17       doing something and sought their union rep' and

        18       said something to the union rep' which could be

        19       considered a crime, abusing a child?  In other

        20       words, if the principle -- and I think Senator

        21       Waldon's questions explained it very, very well

        22        -- if the principle is that in this procedure

        23       you've got a semi-lawyer relationship, why











                                                             
8394

         1       wouldn't it apply to all union situations?

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Because a

         3       teacher has no responsibility -- does not have

         4       the same responsibility as a police officer has

         5       to -

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  So what?

         7                      SENATOR VOLKER:  -- make the same

         8       report?

         9                      So what?  The difference is it

        10       obviously is different, Senator.  They don't

        11       have the same responsibility.  They don't act

        12       under the same rules.  That makes a huge

        13       difference, Senator.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        15       yield to a question?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        17       Senator, would you yield for another question?

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  He

        20       will.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  In other words,

        22       you're saying -- you're saying that what you're

        23       concerned about, and I'm trying to remember











                                                             
8395

         1       Senator Waldon's question, this military command

         2       issue, but what you're concerned about is that

         3       if the union rep' is sitting in, in the place of

         4       a lawyer today, if there's a superior officer

         5       comes over and says you got to tell, you got to

         6       tell, and you've got that conflict; is that what

         7       you're saying, Senator?

         8                      (There was no audible response.)

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  Well,

        10       Senator Volker, I understand the point, but let

        11       me ask you to yield to one more question.

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm the district

        14       attorney of X County, God forbid, and I find out

        15       that a certain school teacher was charged with a

        16       disciplinary procedure and went to Senator

        17       Leichter, the union rep', had a conversation and

        18       now I subpoena Senator Leichter.  Is there any

        19       difference between that?  I mean I am now the

        20       district attorney.  What's the difference

        21       whether I'm a superior officer in the police

        22       department or I'm the district attorney

        23       subpoenaing the teachers' representative who











                                                             
8396

         1       this person spoke to?

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I think the

         3       difference, Senator, once again is the absolute

         4       obligation of the police officer to report, and

         5       the -- the regulations of the police department

         6       are entirely different from anything that a

         7       teacher is subject to.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         9                      Mr. President, if I may, on the

        10       bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        12       Gold to speak on the bill.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Volker,

        14       what you're doing in this legislation is setting

        15       up a new privileged communication.  That's

        16       basically what you're doing, and it seems to me,

        17       Senator, that the issue ought to be a general

        18       one, not a specific one for one department.

        19                      If you want to say that, within

        20       the confines of any union, if a person is

        21       getting help in a disciplinary procedure, that

        22       their communication with their union rep' should

        23       be akin to their talking to a lawyer, a











                                                             
8397

         1       confidential situation, I can understand that

         2       and maybe we should do that.  But to limit it to

         3       the police department only, saying that it's

         4       because their superior can make them talk, I

         5       don't think that's any more of a risk than in a

         6       child abuse problem in the school where the D.A.

         7       comes over and talks to the union rep' and says,

         8       "I'm subpoenaing you before a grand jury."

         9                      Either we are going to say that

        10       these kinds of representations are akin to legal

        11       ones and there should be a privilege or I think

        12       they shouldn't.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        14       Galiber, did you wish to speak again?

        15                      Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        17       President, I share the concerns of my other

        18       colleagues, but if Senator Volker will just

        19       yield to just one other question in advance.

        20                      I read this bill earlier, and I

        21       can't find the copy on my desk.  I'm learning

        22       the file organization on one's desk is a

        23       necessary prerequisite of late night meetings.











                                                             
8398

         1       But there's a provision in there about keeping

         2       records of the privileged communication.

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Right.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Could you

         5       just explain to me what that means?

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yeah.  One of

         7       the -- one of the provisions of the bill is

         8       that, in order to claim this privilege and again

         9       it's the special nature of a law enforcement

        10       privilege, which I don't think I -- I guess I'm

        11       not conveying very well, but it's clear there is

        12       a special relationship, that in order to claim

        13       this privilege, the law enforcement -- the union

        14       official must keep, in effect, a log and

        15       maintain a record of the day, time and place of

        16       any privileged communication, the name of the

        17       members, and so forth.

        18                      The reason for that is to limit

        19       to this kind of privileged communication so that

        20       somebody can't just say, The guy said this to me

        21       or whatever, you have to have -- you have to

        22       have a record of what was done and, by the way,

        23       several of my staff said, Isn't that a burden? I











                                                             
8399

         1       said, Well, the thing you should understand is

         2       that a police officer, when you are trained, one

         3       of the things that you are told to do is to

         4       carry just such a -- a -- such a record.  That's

         5       some sort of book to maintain numbers and dates,

         6       and so forth, so this is not really an unusual

         7       thing.

         8                      But in the case of the union

         9       official, you would have to be especially

        10       careful because otherwise you couldn't claim the

        11       privilege.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, that's

        13       my question through you, Mr. President.  There's

        14       no consequence established for the failure to

        15       keep the record in the statute.

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  There's no -

        17       the consequence, Senator, is no privilege.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. But it

        19       doesn't say that in the bill.  That's -

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  No, it's one of

        21       the -- it's one of the designated number that

        22       says what you have to do in order to get the

        23       privilege.  (d) is a record.  (c) says who may











                                                             
8400

         1       claim it.  It's a criteria that's needed in

         2       order to claim the privilege.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  In other

         4       words, the maintenance of the record, if you're

         5       going to assert the privilege at some later time

         6       it's asserted by the declarant, and you would

         7       have to produce a record on the part of the

         8       hearer that shows that the statement was made at

         9       a definite time, date and place.

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  That's right,

        11       Senator.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  All right.

        13       O.K., thank you.  Just one other thing, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        16       Dollinger.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just a point

        18       of edification.  I think the point Senator Gold

        19       makes about teachers is correct.  I think, if

        20       you look at Part 68 of the Department of

        21       Education regulations which I have some

        22       familiarity with in my private capacity as a

        23       lawyer, it requires the teacher to report to the











                                                             
8401

         1       Department of Education any instance of immoral

         2       conduct involving a child less than 14 years of

         3       age, so that the same kinds of disclosure

         4       requirements can be contained there, and the

         5       example that Senator Gold used may be one of the

         6       things that we have to deal with in the future,

         7       that these are quasi-legal communications made

         8       by the declarant to the hearer and that they

         9       involve the same types of privilege and need to

        10       protect types of criteria that Senator Volker

        11       addresses.

        12                      So this puts us down a road that

        13       I think we've got to be prepared to deal with a

        14       whole series of statements that are very much

        15       like this, involving confidential disclosure of

        16       information between people in a collective

        17       bargaining context.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
8402

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         3       Waldon to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         5       much, Mr. President.

         6                      Mr. President, it took a long

         7       time for the privileged communication and

         8       confidentiality protections of our laws to

         9       become real and to become part and parcel of our

        10       way of life.

        11                      Despite my love of law

        12       enforcement and all that it means, and despite

        13       my long history with law enforcement, I'm not

        14       prepared to relinquish that historical aspect

        15       and how it evolved and developed at this time.

        16                      I applaud what Senator Volker is

        17       doing.  I recognize that law enforcement

        18       agencies are run differently than all others

        19       because I was there, but regarding this

        20       privileged communication possibility as we

        21       understand it with doctors and lawyers, at this

        22       time I'm just not emotionally and intellectually

        23       prepared to make that transition, and so I must











                                                             
8403

         1       vote in the no.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         3       Waldon, how did you vote, sir?

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  No.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  No.

         6       Senator Waldon votes no.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Calendar Number 1662 are

         9       Senators DeFrancisco, Galiber, Gold, Leichter,

        10       Nolan, Ohrenstein and Waldon.  Ayes 51, nays 7.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      Senator Padavan.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        15       on the regular calendar, let's return to 1255.

        16       There's a substitution to be made, and then

        17       we'll take up the bill.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        19       Secretary will read.

        20                      Excuse me, Senator Seward.

        21                      SENATOR SEWARD:  If -- if I

        22       could, sir, I would ask unanimous consent to be

        23       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 1655











                                                             
8404

         1       which passed just a few moments ago.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Without

         3       objection.

         4                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Thank you.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right.

         6       1255.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1255.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1255, Senator Holland moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        11       7754-A and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading 1255.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        14       Substitution ordered.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND: Last section.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator

        21       Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Could you just

        23       hold it a moment until we can find the bill.











                                                             
8405

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         2       Leichter would like to find the bill.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  O.K. I just

         4       want to look.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         6       Padavan, there's a message on this.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, we move

         8       that the message be accepted, please.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All in

        10       favor, say aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Opposed nay.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      The message has been accepted.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right.

        16       No.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8406

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      Senator Padavan, what is your

         5       pleasure, sir?

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right.  Now

         7       we will go to the Supplemental Calendar Number

         8       3, the active list.  However, once again, the

         9       first bill on it, 761, is on the regular

        10       calendar.

        11                      Mr. President, I'm corrected on

        12       that.  It is not on the regular calendar, but it

        13       is on our desk.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  That's

        15       correct.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       761, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        18       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7686-B,

        19       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        21       the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8407

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Hold it.  I'm

         5       sorry.  Just want to follow at this time.  Could

         6       you read the calendar number, again, please.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       761.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        10       bill is 7686-B.  It is on your desk.  It's right

        11       on top, 7686-B.

        12                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator Gold,

        13       probably a -

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        15                      SENATOR LEVY: Yeah, Senator

        16       Gold.  Probably a month or so ago we passed a

        17       departmental -- DOT departmental bill requiring

        18       five-year financial plans for the upstate

        19       transportation authorities.

        20                      The Assembly believed that there

        21       should be an amendment to that bill, Senator,

        22       that would -

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  That does what?











                                                             
8408

         1                      SENATOR LEVY: Pardon me?

         2                      SENATOR GOLD: Does what?

         3                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  The

         4       amendment prohibits employees and other people

         5       that work for these authorities from serving as

         6       members of the authority itself, the separation

         7       of powers.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD: Last section.

         9                      SENATOR LEVY:  That's all the

        10       amendment does.  The bill passed the Assembly,

        11       and we now have it before us.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Seems to do

        14       more than that.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The











                                                             
8409

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Nozzolio.

         3                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         4       I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the

         5       negative on Calendar Number 1655.

         6                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         8       Wright.

         9                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        10       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        11       negative on Calendar Number 1655.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Without

        13       objection.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Non-controvers

        15       ial.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        17       Secretary will read.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Supplemental

        19       Calendar Number 3.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  1670, Senator

        21       Skelos moves to discharge the Committee on Rules

        22       from Assembly Bill Number 1529 and substitute it

        23       for the identical Third Reading 1670.











                                                             
8410

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

         2       the last section.  Oh, I'm sorry.  Substitution

         3       ordered.  Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

         7       the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1671.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Bill is

        15       high, laid aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1672, Senator Kuhl moves to discharge the

        18       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        19       8152 and substitute it for the identical Third

        20       Reading 1672.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        22       Substitution ordered.  Read the last section.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.











                                                             
8411

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

         2       Explanation.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1673, Senator Larkin moves to discharge the

         6       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         7       7956-C and substitute it for the identical

         8       Calendar Number 1673.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        10       Substitution ordered.  Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1674, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 5287

        21       A, General City Law.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All in

        23       favor, say aye.











                                                             
8412

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Message is accepted.  Read the

         5       last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        12       one, Senator Spano recorded in the negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        14       Wright.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

        16       Wright in the negative, also Senator Sheffer.

        17       Also Senator Seward.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        21       President, what was the number of that?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  That

        23       was 1674, the last one we just passed?











                                                             
8413

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1675, Senator Larkin moves to discharge the

         3       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         4       7860- A and substitute it for the identical

         5       Calendar Number 1675.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

         7       Substitution ordered.  Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1676, by -- Senator Nolan moves to discharge the

        18       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        19       8249-A and substitute it for the identical

        20       Calendar Number 1676.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        22       Substitution ordered.  Read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
8414

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1678, Senator Larkin moves to discharge the

        10       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        11       8669-A and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading 1678.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        14       Substitution is ordered.  We'll read the last

        15       section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
8415

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1679.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

         4       bill is high, laid aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1680.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Bill is

         8       high; laid aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1681.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        12       Padavan I believe -- I'm sorry.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino

        14       moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        15       Assembly Bill 8867 and substitute it for the

        16       identical Third Reading 1681.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        18       Substitution ordered.  There's a message at the

        19       desk.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Move we accept

        21       the message.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All in

        23       favor say aye.











                                                             
8416

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The message is accepted.  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1682, Senator Johnson moves to discharge the

        15       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        16       8517-B and substitute it for the identical Third

        17       Reading 1682.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        19       Substitution ordered.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Is there a

        21       message?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  There

        23       is a message at the desk.











                                                             
8417

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Move we accept

         2       the message.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All in

         4       favor aye.

         5                      (Response of "Aye.")

         6                      Opposed nay.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      The message is accepted.  The

         9       bill is laid aside.

        10                      Senator Padavan, on that last

        11       bill, we have to withdraw the message.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Why?  May I ask

        13       why?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  That's

        15       correct.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  May I ask why?

        18                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  May I

        20       answer one question at a time.

        21                      SENATOR TULLY:  Perhaps to help

        22       Senator Gold.  It's my understanding this bill

        23       passed the Assembly 126 to 14, is that true?











                                                             
8418

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  I don't know

         2       that.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Yes,

         5       Senator Gold.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  We have an

         7       Assembly bill in front of us?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Yes, we

         9       do.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  It passed the

        11       Assembly?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Yes, it

        13       did.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  I assume there is

        15       a message.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  No.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, it couldn't

        18       have passed the Assembly without a message.  I

        19       mean, Mr. President, this is getting really

        20       silly.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  If the

        22       Assembly received a message, we did not receive

        23       ours.











                                                             
8419

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  We have the

         2       message.  It's in front of you, Mr. President.

         3       This is really getting silly, 3:00 o'clock in

         4       the morning.  The Governor issued a message to

         5       the Legislature.  It is in our hands.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         7       Gold, one second, please.  Senator Gold, we're

         8       resolving that, if you just give us a second.

         9       We recognize the hour is late and the desk is

        10       doing the best it can.

        11                      Senator Padavan, the message is

        12       on its way, should be coming through the door at

        13       any second.  Got the Governor's office on the

        14       phone.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  I got a message

        16       from the Governor.  The Governor said do it.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  In one minute.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let's lay that

        19       aside, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        21       bill has been laid aside.  We can continue.

        22       When the message arrives, we'll accept the

        23       message.











                                                             
8420

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  That's a wise

         2       decision, Mr. President.

         3                      1683.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1683.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

         7       Calendar Number 1683 is high.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1684, by the Senate Committee on rules, Senate

        10       Bill Number 6203, Environmental Conservation

        11       Law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        13       Padavan, we have a message.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, Mr.

        15       President, and may I make a motion we accept

        16       it.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All in

        18       favor say aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The message is accepted.  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
8421

         1                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  No, it's -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         3       Oppenheimer, do you have a -

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Can I

         5       question?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Do you

         7       wish to lay the bill aside?

         8                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: O.K.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay the bill

        10       aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        12       bill is laid aside.

        13                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I didn't

        14       want to lay it aside but you can't -

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        16       controversial on the same calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  We will

        18       go to controversial calendar now.

        19                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        21       Pataki, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes, I would

        23       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the











                                                             
8422

         1       negative on Calendar 1674.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Without

         3       objection.

         4                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Same

         6       request.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Excuse

         8       me.  We're going to ask for a little order in

         9       the chamber.  We realize the hour is late; there

        10       are a lot of conversations going on.

        11                      Senator Pataki, would you rise

        12       and please state which bill you -

        13                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes.  Unanimous

        14       consent has been requested to be recorded in the

        15       negative on 1674, Senate Bill 5287.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1674,

        17       Senator Pataki in the negative, without

        18       objection.

        19                      Senator Nozzolio.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator, I

        21       make the same request to be recorded in the

        22       negative on 1674.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1674,











                                                             
8423

         1       Senator Nozzolio in the negative, without

         2       objection.

         3                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Identical

         5       request.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1674,

         7       Senator DeFrancisco in the negative.

         8                      We'll do the controversial

         9       calendar.  Thank you for your cooperation.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1671.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1671 is

        13       high.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1672, substituted earlier, by the Assembly

        16       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8152,

        17       Transportation Law.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        21       Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        23       Kuhl would yield, please.











                                                             
8424

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator

         2       Kuhl, would you yield, please?

         3                      SENATOR KUHL: Yes.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator

         5       Leichter.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Let me tell

         7       you what concerns me about this bill.  Your bill

         8       provides that farm vehicles, I guess you'd call

         9       them plate vehicles, will be subject to lesser

        10       fines if there are traffic violations, and you

        11       point out, I believe, in your memo that these

        12       vehicles are ordinarily used in connection with

        13       farm work.  They are not a major roads.

        14                      But what I'm concerned about is

        15       where one of these vehicles is on a major road

        16       and there's a major infraction, then under your

        17       bill all that you could apply would be these

        18       minor penalties whereas under the law as it

        19       exists now, whoever assesses the penalty,

        20       whether it be a traffic court or whatever,

        21       couldn't they take into account the fact that it

        22       was a minor violation and assess a lower fine?

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Immediate











                                                             
8425

         1       meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  There's

         3       an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

         4       Room 332.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         6       President.  Senator Kuhl, did I make myself

         7       clear?

         8                      SENATOR KUHL:  I believe so,

         9       Senator Leichter, but I don't think the -- the

        10       answer is I don't believe -- the answer to your

        11       question is I don't believe that they can do

        12       that.

        13                      Let's -- just to give you a brief

        14       explanation here.  A farm plate is a restricted

        15       use license plate that's applicable to farm

        16       vehicles.  Now, it's particularly important that

        17       you understand what restricted use is.  These

        18       farm vehicles are only allowed to travel from

        19       the farm to the field and from the field back to

        20       the farm or, in one exception, they can go from

        21       the farm to a municipal landfill.  That is the

        22       total usage that they are allowed to do.  They

        23       have to actually file the route annually; they











                                                             
8426

         1       have to make an application to the Department of

         2       Motor Vehicles, file the route with the

         3       Department of Motor Vehicles and have it

         4       available in the glove compartment so that if

         5       they are stopped by an enforcement officer that,

         6       in fact, they would see if they're not on that

         7       route they are in violation.  If that's the

         8       case, then I believe that the maximum fine would

         9       apply to them just like any other commercial

        10       operator.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And would

        12       still apply, so if they go off the route and

        13       they're driving on an interstate and there's an

        14       infraction, then the penalties provided by the

        15       current law would still apply, is that correct?

        16                      SENATOR KUHL:  I believe that's

        17       correct.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  O.K. No

        19       objection.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        21       the last section.

        22                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator











                                                             
8427

         1       Levy.

         2                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yeah.  I rise to

         3       explain my vote.

         4                      I want to compliment Senator Kuhl

         5       on his efforts to remedy an over-harsh treatment

         6       in the law as it relates to fines on farm

         7       vehicles but, as Senator Leichter indicated,

         8       going to a landfill possibly will put one of

         9       these vehicles on a highway or a road.

        10                      I have to say this bill is before

        11       us tonight because Senator Kuhl has tried to get

        12       the Department of Transportation to remedy an

        13       overly harsh fine schedule for these types of

        14       vehicles and without success.  The Assembly has

        15       put together the fine schedule under this bill,

        16       and I have to say it is the wrong route to be

        17       going.

        18                      I'm not going to support this

        19       bill and I'm not going to vote for it, but I

        20       understand why Senator Kuhl has this bill before

        21       us because most certainly, this bill is going to

        22       be vetoed.  This bill will send a message

        23       through that veto message that the Department











                                                             
8428

         1       must realistically deal with this problem and

         2       not deal with it with the solution that we have

         3       here before us today, that is not of Senator

         4       Kuhl's making, but of the Assembly's making as

         5       it relates to reducing the fine schedule.

         6                      I vote no.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        15       one, Senator Levy recorded in the negative.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Hoffmann.

        19                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Just request

        20       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        21       on Calendar Number 1674.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without

        23











                                                             
8429

         1       objection.

         2                      SENATOR JONES:  Mr. President,

         3       may I be recorded in the negative on 1674.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Without

         5       objection.

         6                      Senator Kuhl.

         7                      SENATOR KUHL:  May I have

         8       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         9       on 1655.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1655,

        11       Senator Kuhl in the negative without objection.

        12                      Senator Larkin, did you rise for

        13       a purpose?

        14                      (The Senator indicated no. )

        15                      Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  May I also by

        17       unanimous consent be recorded in the negative on

        18       Calendar 1674.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

        20       Dollinger in the negative on 1674, without

        21       objection.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1682, substituted earlier, by the Assembly











                                                             
8430

         1       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

         2       Agriculture and Markets Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         4       Padavan, we have a message at the desk.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Move that we

         6       accept it.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  All

         8       those in favor, say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Those opposed, nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The ayes have it.  The message is

        13       accepted.

        14                      Read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Go

        21       ahead.  To explain your vote, Senator?

        22                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  To explain

        23       my vote.











                                                             
8431

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Senator

         2       Oppenheimer to explain her vote.

         3                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  This is the

         4       negotiated Clean Air Act, which I'm going to

         5       support.  It is a much improved bill, and I want

         6       to compliment Senator Johnson on his work with

         7       the Assembly's committee.

         8                      The fee structure for the

         9       stationary source pollution emissions has been

        10       increased substantially, so now it starts at $6

        11       and goes up to $25 per ton of emission.

        12                      Further, the DEC will promulgate

        13       trip reduction -- you know, employee trip

        14       reduction.  And Westchester and Rockland and

        15       Orange, the three counties that are north of New

        16       York City that had been grouped in with the City

        17       that were concerned about that, have been

        18       separated out for employee trip reduction.

        19                      Thirdly, the prohibition has been

        20       removed against making tighter regulations the

        21       minimum standard.

        22                      And further, the California fuels

        23       could be used. They are not excluded.











                                                             
8432

         1                      So I think this is a far better

         2       bill than we had before.

         3                      The one objection -- well,

         4       "objection" is too harsh.  The one thing we

         5       would have preferred to see a little stronger

         6       would have been the offset for incinerators in

         7       New York City.  They could have been stronger

         8       than the 1.3 offset.

         9                      But aside from that, we believe

        10       that this is a good bill, and we hope that in

        11       the future New York State and the Legislature

        12       would not so grudgingly meet the attainment

        13       goals that have been set by the federal

        14       government.

        15                      This meets the first attainment

        16       standard, and we hope that there will be a less

        17       grudgingly -- grudging movement to meet these

        18       standards that have been set by the fed's.

        19                      I vote in the affirmative.  Thank

        20       you, Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:

        22       Results.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1.











                                                             
8433

         1       Senator Solomon recorded in the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay 1683 aside

         5       temporarily, please.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  1683 is

         7       laid aside temporarily.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 1684, by

         9       the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate Bill

        10       Number 6203, Environmental Conservation Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        22       would you return to reports of standing

        23       committees, please.











                                                             
8434

         1                      But first, if you would recognize

         2       Senator Saland.

         3                      (Whereupon, Lt. Governor Lundine

         4       was in the chair. )

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Saland.

         6                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.  Mr. President, I would request

         8       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         9       on Calendar 1674, Senate 5287A.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        11       objection, so ordered.

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you.  I

        13       also have a motion to amend a bill, Mr.

        14       President.  On page 27, I offer the following

        15       amendments to Calendar 1580, Senate 21005, and

        16       ask that the bill retain its place on the Third

        17       Reading Calendar.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  So ordered.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        20       return to the order of reports of standing

        21       committees.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        23       from the Committee on Finance, reports the











                                                             
8435

         1       following nominations:

         2                      Commissioner of the Tax Appeals

         3       Tribunal, John P. Dugan, Esq., of Glenmont, and

         4       Francis R. Koenig of Kingston.

         5                      Member of the Niagara Frontier

         6       Transportation Authority, Marilyn Royer of North

         7       Tonawanda; George L. Wessel of Lancaster; and

         8       Theodore D. Williamson, Sr., of Niagara Falls.

         9                      Member of the Central New York

        10       Regional Transportation Authority Eileen

        11       Teachout of Syracuse.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  The -

        13                      Senator Larkin.

        14                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President.

        15       I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar -

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Let us confirm

        18       these nominees first.  I'm sorry.  I thought you

        19       wanted to speak on them.

        20                      The question occurs on the

        21       confirmation of the nominees.  All those in

        22       favor, say aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
8436

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

         4       are confirmed.

         5                      Now, Senator Larkin.

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

         7       would like to have unanimous consent to be

         8       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         9       1674, Senate Print 5287A.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        11       objection, so ordered.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Now, Mr.

        13       President.  I believe there are some resolutions

        14       at the desk, if they could be read and adopted.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        16       read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        18       Resolution, by Senator Hannon, memorializing

        19       Congress to incorporate specific standards into

        20       the reform of our nation's health care policy.

        21                      Also, Legislative Resolution, by

        22       Senator Galiber, commending Hattie Moseley

        23       Austin upon the occasion of her retirement and











                                                             
8437

         1       her dedicated contributions to the Saratoga

         2       Springs community.

         3                      Legislative Resolution, by

         4       Senator Libous, honoring Francis M. Murphy for

         5       his years of outstanding leadership and

         6       selflessly dedicated public service to

         7       Owego-Apalachin School District.

         8                      Legislative Resolution, by

         9       Senator Bruno, honoring Aron Egner of

        10       Shenendehowa High School upon the occasion of

        11       his designation as one of six national finalists

        12       in the Kaplun National Essay Contest.

        13                      Legislative Resolution, by

        14       Senator Bruno, commending Shenendehowa High

        15       School for leading the state of New York in the

        16       number of teams qualifying for the Academic

        17       Achievement Award.

        18                      Legislative Resolution, by

        19       Senator Nolan, commending Peter Griffin,

        20       principal of Clayton A. Bouton Junior/Senior

        21       High School upon the occasion of his retirement.

        22                      Legislative Resolution, by

        23       Senator Maltese, honoring Arlene Pedone for her











                                                             
8438

         1       contributions and dedicated service to the

         2       Richmond High community.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is

         4       on the adoption of the resolutions.

         5                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  1682, I would

         6       like an explanation.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  These are the

         8       resolutions that were just read.

         9                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes.  I'm

        10       looking for my Resolution Calendar.  It's

        11       somewhere on my desk.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Do you have a

        13       question on the first resolution, Senator

        14       Solomon?

        15                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes, Senator

        16       Hannon's resolution.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay that one

        18       aside, please.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  That resolution

        20       is laid aside, and the question is on the

        21       adoption of the other resolutions.

        22                      All those in favor say aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
8439

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response. )

         3                      The ayes have it. The resolutions

         4       are adopted.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Stand at ease

         6       for a few moments, Mr. President, awaiting the

         7       Rules calendar.

         8                      (Whereupon, at 3:11 a.m., the

         9       Senate was at ease. )

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        11       on the main calendar, Calendar Number 470.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7 of the

        13       main calendar of the day, on page 7, Calendar

        14       Number -

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold it one

        16       second.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Solomon.

        18                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Unanimous

        19       consent to be recorded in the negative on

        20       Calendar 1684.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        22       objection, so ordered.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
8440

         1       I wish to call up my bill, Print 1653A, recalled

         2       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         4       read.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Cook,

         6       Senate Bill Number 1653A, an act to amend the

         7       Education Law.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         9       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        10       bill was passed.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        12       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        14       reconsideration. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       before the house.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       now that the bill has retained its place on

        20       Third Reading, I offer the following amendments.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Amendments

        22       received.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
8441

         1       I now move to discharge the Committee on Rules

         2       from Assembly Print 8733 and substitute it for

         3       my identical bill.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         5       ordered.

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         7       the Senate bill on first passage was voted

         8       unanimously.  I now move that the substituted

         9       Assembly bill have its third reading at this

        10       time.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Unanimous.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.  Pataki is negative.

        20                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

        22                      SENATOR TULLY:  Was that Calendar

        23       Number 470? Would you please advise me what











                                                             
8442

         1       calendar just passed?

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 511.

         3                      (Whereupon at 3:22 a.m., Senate

         4       was at ease. )

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       would you recognize Senator Larkin, please.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Larkin.

         8                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President. I

         9       ask for unanimous consent to be in the negative

        10       on Calendar 511, Senate 1653B, which was just

        11       passed.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        13       objection, so ordered.

        14                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Libous.

        16                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Could we return

        17       to motions?

        18                      Mr. President, on behalf of

        19       Senator Mega, I wish to call up his bill, Senate

        20       Print Number 5287A, which is now at the desk.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Mega,

        22       Senate Bill Number 5287A, an act to amend the

        23       General City Law.











                                                             
8443

         1                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

         2       now move to reconsider the vote by which the

         3       bill was passed and ask that the bill be

         4       restored to the order of third reading.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

         6       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         8       reconsideration. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       before the house.

        12                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        13       now move to discharge from the Committee on

        14       Rules Assembly Print Number 7690A and substitute

        15       it for Senator Mega's identical bill.  The

        16       Senate bill on first passage was voted

        17       unanimously.  I now move that the substituted

        18       Assembly bill have its third reading at this

        19       time.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        21       ordered.  Third reading.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8444

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

         8                      SENATOR DALY:  May I have

         9       unanimous consent to be voted in the negative on

        10       Calendar Number 1655, Senate Print 6193.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        12       objection, so ordered.

        13                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

        14       President, I request unanimous consent to be

        15       recorded in the negative on 1684.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        17       objection, so ordered.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        21       President.  I was just handed some comments that

        22       I think the members might find useful.  These

        23       were words by Oliver Cromwell when he dismissed











                                                             
8445

         1       the rump parliament on April 20, 1653, and he

         2       said, "You have sat too long here for any good

         3       you have been doing.  Depart, I say, and let us

         4       have done with you.  In the name of God, go."

         5                      I suggest everyone take it to

         6       heart.

         7                      (Whereupon, at 4:30 a.m., the

         8       Senate reconvened with Senator Farley in the

         9       chair. )

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Good

        11       morning, Senator Present.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Good morning.

        13       May we take up Calendar 470 on the main

        14       calendar.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  470.

        16       That is on the regular calendar.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7, on the

        18       main calendar of today, Calendar Number 470, by

        19       member of the Assembly Lasher, Assembly Bill

        20       Number 1829B, Private Housing Finance Law, in

        21       relation to affordable housing development

        22       loans.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read











                                                             
8446

         1       the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      Senator Present.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1371.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1371,

        13       on page 23 of the regular calendar.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1371, by member of the Assembly Lasher, Assembly

        16       Bill Number 5823, Real Property Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8447

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1548,

         5       please.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1648,

         7       Senator?

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  1548.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1548.

        10       That's on page 27 of the regular calendar.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1548, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        13       Assembly Bill Number 8665, an act to amend the

        14       Education Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
8448

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1347.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  1347.

         5       We have a message on this one, Senator Present.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1347, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

         8       5947C, an act to amend the Public Health Law.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        10       I move we accept the message which is at the

        11       desk.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All

        13       those in favor of accepting the message, say

        14       aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Those opposed, nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      The message is accepted.

        19                      Explanation has been asked for.

        20       Senator Johnson.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        22       this bill is going to transfer the

        23       responsibility from monitoring the generators of











                                                             
8449

         1       regulated medical waste from the Department of

         2       Environmental Conservation, who has already

         3       really given up the task though they're still

         4       charged with it, who are no longer operating

         5       that program, to the Department of Health, to

         6       clarify the definition of regulated medical

         7       waste as those wastes which pose a threat to

         8       humans.

         9                      You may remember in 1988, I

        10       believe it was, '87, '88, we passed a law in

        11       this state dealing with medical waste after the

        12       great medical wastes washed up on the beached.

        13       Subsequently, the federal government got into

        14       the act creating a medical waste bill.  Our

        15       program and Jersey's program operated for some

        16       period of years.

        17                      We found out that -- when the

        18       federal government finally abandoned the

        19       program, we found out it wasn't necessary to

        20       classify all these materials as medical waste,

        21       that they could be autoclaved and safely dealt

        22       with as any other waste once it was treated in

        23       the autoclave.











                                                             
8450

         1                      What this really does is turns

         2       this whole program over to the Department of

         3       Health.  They are classifying what is medical

         4       waste, what is infectious and what is not, and

         5       setting forth the procedure by which this is to

         6       be handled.

         7                      It will save a lot of money for

         8       doctors' offices and hospitals and nursing homes

         9       and so forth, and still will protect adequately

        10       the public health of the people of this state.

        11                      (Whereupon, Lt. Governor Lundine

        12       was in the chair. )

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        14       section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        20       one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Hold one

        23       second, please.











                                                             
8451

         1                      Mr. President, can we return to

         2       reports of standing committees and hear one, if

         3       there is one there.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         5       read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

         7       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         8       following bills directly for third reading:

         9                      Senate Bill Number 4242A, by

        10       Senator Volker, amends Chapter 68 of the Laws of

        11       1968, Capital Construction Budget.

        12                      5824A, by Senator Marchi,

        13       Education Law and the Public Authorities Law.

        14                      5916B, by Senator Holland, Public

        15       Health Law.

        16                      5995, by the Committee on Rules,

        17       confers jurisdiction upon the Court of Claims.

        18                      6007, by Senator Padavan,

        19       Education Law and the Civil Service Law.

        20                      6186, by the Committee on Rules,

        21       amends chapter of the Laws of 1993.

        22                      6201, by Senator Espada,

        23       Education Law.











                                                             
8452

         1                      6205, by Senator LaValle,

         2       Education Law.

         3                      And 6206, by the Committee on

         4       Rules, temporary task force on railroad taxes.

         5                      All bills reported directly for

         6       third reading.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Third reading.

         8                      Senator Holland.

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        10       on Supplemental Number 4, I offer the following

        11       amendments to Calendar 1686, Senate Print Number

        12       5916B, and ask that the bill retain its place on

        13       the Third Reading Calendar.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        15       objection, so ordered.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        17       Take up Calendar Number 1683.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

        22                      SENATOR TULLY:  Other than the

        23       bills before us, do we have a Supplemental











                                                             
8453

         1       Calendar 4 which has been distributed?

         2                      THE PRESIDENT: Supplemental 4?

         3                      SENATOR TULLY:  I don't have -- I

         4       don't know if any member of the chamber has it.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Neither do I.

         6                      The Chair will advise that the

         7       Supplemental Calendar 4 is now being distrib

         8       uted, and also, Senator Present, I thought I

         9       understood, wanted to call up Calendar Number

        10       1683.  However, that bill is high, and I do not

        11       have a message at the desk.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  We made a

        13       mistake.  1680.  Is that high too?

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is also

        15       high, and I do not have a message.

        16                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Libous.

        18                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Could we return

        19       to motions for a second?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Certainly.

        21                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President,

        22       on behalf of Senator Stafford, I wish to call up

        23       his bill, Print Number 2523, recalled from the











                                                             
8454

         1       Assembly which is now at the desk.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         3       read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         5       Stafford, Senate Bill Number 2523, an act to

         6       amend the County Law.

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  God bless you!

         8       Mr. President, I now move to reconsider the vote

         9       by which this bill was passed.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll on

        11       reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        13       reconsideration. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.

        15                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        16       offer up the following amendments.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Amendments

        18       received.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        20       let's try 727.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  727.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  727, on the

        23       main calendar.  No?  He says no.











                                                             
8455

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  This bill is not

         2       on the calendar, and it will be distributed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       727, Senator Levy moves to discharge the

         5       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         6       8726-A and substitute it for the identical

         7       Senate Bill Number 4887-C.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         9       ordered.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        11       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes, there is.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

        14       accept the message.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

        16       all those in favor say aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The motion is agreed to.  The

        21       message is accepted.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.











                                                             
8456

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Would

         2       Senator Levy explain the difference between the

         3       "B" print and the "C" print?

         4                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, the "B" print

         5       had an additional requirement that the Water

         6       Authority, in the absence of a pilot agreement

         7       in lieu of taxes, or an action by a governmental

         8       unit to waive its taxes, that the Authority

         9       continue to pay taxes.  This -- this, the "C"

        10       print, deletes that, Senator Gold, and -- and

        11       limits the option to -- limits the action to the

        12       in lieu of taxes provision.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator, in

        14       terms of the whole bill, would you give me an

        15       idea?

        16                      SENATOR LEVY:  Oh, yeah, I'm

        17       sorry.  What -- first, two years ago we did a

        18       bill to create a Southeastern Nassau Water

        19       Authority which empowered the Water Authority,

        20       if it made a determination to do so, to take

        21       over the New York Water Company.

        22                      What -- what the "B" print did

        23       and the "A" print was to require a public











                                                             
8457

         1       referendum and that, in the absence of a taxing

         2       unit, in the absence of a taxing unit waiving

         3       property taxes or a pilot agreement, that the

         4       Water Authority, if it took over New York Water,

         5       would continue to pay property taxes.

         6                      What the "C" print does is remove

         7       the mandate that the Water Authority has to pay

         8       property tax.  That's the difference between the

         9       "B" and the "C".

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thanks, Senator.

        11       Last section.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Calendar 1679.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1679, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Bill

        23       Number 6173-A, providing for the development and











                                                             
8458

         1       modernization of major league sports

         2       facilities.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         4       I move that we accept the message which I

         5       believe is at the desk.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  It is at the

         7       desk.  On the motion, all those in favor say

         8       aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        13       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        16       President, could I ask for an explanation?

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        18       You asked for an explanation?

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last -

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Are you going

        21       to do it?  O.K.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  I'm sorry.

        23       Senator Dollinger.











                                                             
8459

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I asked for an explanation.  We're on

         3       1679.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT: 1679.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  General

         6       explanation, and then I have one question from

         7       the sponsor.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  On page 2 of

         9       Supplemental Calendar 3, Senator Dollinger asks

        10       for an explanation.

        11                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Sure.  Mr.

        12       President, regrettably, not everyone in the

        13       state does, but I think the people in this room

        14       realize that tourism, including recreation and

        15       sporting activities, is our state's second

        16       largest industry and, if our state is going to

        17       have a strong economic future and enduring

        18       quality of life, that tourism, recreation and

        19       sporting activities is necessarily going to be a

        20       critically important part of that picture.

        21                      The bill that we have in front of

        22       us establishes a program, a process within the

        23       Urban Development Corporation, to speak to a











                                                             
8460

         1       specific goal within that industry, and that's

         2       sports facility needs in our state.  It's

         3       structured very much like some other programs,

         4       the REDS program, Higher Ed. Applied Technology

         5       Fund.  It's a process to which applicants can

         6       apply for help from the state in renovating or

         7       building facilities.

         8                      In short, the state has been

         9       approached for many millions of dollars for help

        10       in constructing sports facilities.  It would be

        11       nice if we could ride in on a white horse with

        12       all the money required and just dole it out.

        13       Regrettably in the 1990s, we don't have that

        14       luxury and instead have to structure as

        15       deliberate and careful a program as we can for

        16       the state to be a partner in those efforts, but

        17       not to single-handedly try to fund them.

        18                      There are some very specific

        19       needs.  For example, minor league baseball in

        20       our state, we're proud to have 15 minor league

        21       teams, more than any other state in the nation,

        22       representing all three leagues, Triple A, Double

        23       A, Single A leagues.  Each of those teams is











                                                             
8461

         1       under a mandate, if you will, from professional

         2       baseball, to meet new facility standards by

         3       April of 1994 if they are going to retain their

         4       minor league franchise.

         5                      They have come to us, some of the

         6       stadia in this state being over a hundred years

         7       old, and say, We'd like to meet those

         8       standards.  We want to retain our team, but we'd

         9       like the state to be a partner in -- in helping

        10       us do that.

        11                      This program structures that

        12       effort, sets up the process through UDC, that

        13       those minor league baseball teams or major

        14       league teams from other sports can apply and

        15       seek help from the state, and there are criteria

        16       for UDC agreeing that -- to that, and there are

        17       standards.  Just to use examples that, for a

        18       major league team, the program is structured on

        19       the basis of a loan rather than a grant, and the

        20       maximum amount that can be received is 25

        21       percent.  For a minor league team, it is based

        22       on a grant.

        23                      That, in a nut shell, is what











                                                             
8462

         1       this program is all about.  If you have more

         2       specifics that I can speak to, I'd be happy to.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, if Senator Sheffer would just yield

         5       to a couple questions.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Dollinger

         7       is recognized.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, the

         9       area of concern I have is Section 12 of the bill

        10       that involves a -- or maybe implicated a

        11       situation that may arise in the city of

        12       Rochester where we have a facility in one

        13       portion of the city that may relocate to another

        14       portion, and it's my understanding as I read

        15       that language -- I'd just like to walk through

        16       it to make sure that we have similar under

        17       standings on this -- that this section delegates

        18       to the municipality the obligation to conduct an

        19       initial assessment of environmental and economic

        20       impacts for the proposed relocation of a

        21       stadium.  Is that correct?

        22                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  It is.  The

        23       burden for it is on the municipality, the











                                                             
8463

         1       community, and the purpose of it is to say that

         2       where a decision is made locally that there will

         3       be a relocation, that as a matter of public

         4       policy, we're saying that the environmental and

         5       economic implications of that ought to be

         6       reviewed by the municipality as a part of that

         7       process.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. And

         9       again, through you, Mr. President, it talks

        10       about a determination being made both with

        11       respect to the economic and environmental

        12       impacts and then a decision made about whether a

        13       further environmental study would be needed, the

        14       filing of an EIS, and finally the creation of a

        15       financial assistance plan for the spot that is

        16       vacated in the event there is a relocation, and

        17       it's my understanding in discussions with you

        18       and other members of the staff that all of those

        19       determinations will rest with the municipal

        20       government.  Is that correct?

        21                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  That's

        22       correct.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  On the bill,











                                                             
8464

         1       Mr. President.

         2                      This bill represents sort of an

         3       interesting experience for me because I came

         4       along in this Legislature just at the time that

         5       Senator Sheffer held his hearings about minor

         6       league baseball and the future of minor league

         7       baseball in this state, and I've been impressed

         8       not only with the work that he has done as the

         9       chairman of the Tourism and Recreation Committee

        10       but the work that's been done by, frankly,

        11       people around the state.  I point to Senator

        12       Daly, my colleague from the west, Senator

        13       Nozzolio, both on behalf of Monroe County.

        14                      The stadium in Monroe County will

        15       be moved inside my district.  All three of the

        16       sites that have been talked about are inside my

        17       district, but I appreciate the interest, the

        18       concern and the diligence of my three colleagues

        19       from the west in bringing this bill to

        20       fruition.

        21                      I think it does an awful lot.  I

        22       think it charts new ground in our relationship

        23       between the state government, the financing and











                                                             
8465

         1       the partnership with local governments and also,

         2       most critically, the relationship with the major

         3       leagues and with the Professional Baseball

         4       Association, because I think there has to be a

         5       recognition, which this bill incorporates, that

         6       everyone is a player in this game, and that we

         7       all have to make sure that we're communicating

         8       with one another and understand the fundamental

         9       tenets that go into this treasured sport of

        10       baseball.

        11                      So I congratulate those who have

        12       worked on this bill.  I know it's been a long

        13       haul.  I think it's a good bill.  With Senator

        14       Sheffer's further comments and further guidance

        15       to me as to what the responsibility will be of

        16       the municipality, in my case the city of

        17       Rochester, I'm prepared to support it, and I

        18       would urge all my colleagues to do so.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

        20                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President, on

        21       the bill, I, too, would like to go through

        22       Section 12 so that we have no confusion on

        23       this.  The language is very broad, and I think











                                                             
8466

         1       we have to be quite specific so that we fully

         2       understand the intent of that language, and

         3       Senator Dollinger touched on it and just one

         4       point he made, and I'm not sure I understand the

         5       answer.  I think I understand the bill.  I want

         6       to make sure I'm right.

         7                      Where you have a -- if the

         8       Senator would yield.

         9                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Sure.

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  On that, you'll

        11       note on line 27 a statement where -- a statement

        12       on economic and environmental impacts, assessing

        13       the impact of the proposed relocation.

        14                      Now, the proposed relocation.

        15       That environmental impact and that economic

        16       impact is on the existing -- the existing

        17       stadium.  For example, if you're moving from

        18       Stadium A and building Stadium B, the

        19       environmental impact and economic impact

        20       statement that's mentioned in here deals with

        21       Stadium A, the stadium you're closing down; is

        22       that correct?

        23                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  That is











                                                             
8467

         1       correct.

         2                      SENATOR DALY:  It does not deal

         3       with Stadium B, in other words, the new area

         4       you're going into except for the ordinary

         5       environmental impact?

         6                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  That's right.

         7       I wouldn't want to imply that they wouldn't have

         8       to do any impact analyses under SEQR or anything

         9       else, but under this bill it's the location, the

        10       stadium from which you're moving.

        11                      SENATOR DALY:  And, again,

        12       ordinarily you would expect an environmental

        13       impact statement or at least a study be made of

        14       an area in which you're going to build the

        15       stadium, but you would not expect an economic

        16       impact statement; is that correct?

        17                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Right.

        18                      SENATOR DALY:  So, therefore,

        19       what the language means is that the economic and

        20       environmental impact that's mentioned in Section

        21       12 will be in that area of -- in the particular

        22       case of Rochester would be in the Silver Stadium

        23       area, the stadium that's closing down and, again











                                                             
8468

         1       importantly, the -- it is the municipality for

         2       instance -- for the record, would you define the

         3       municipality in this particular section?  Is

         4       that a city?

         5                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  For example, if we

         7       were talking about Rochester, then the

         8       municipality would be the city of Rochester.

         9                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Correct.

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  All right.  Thank

        11       you very much.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr. Presi

        13       dent, if I may just for one quick question.  I

        14       concur with Senator Daly's description, and I

        15       believe that Senator Sheffer's answer is

        16       consistent with my understanding as well, so I

        17       think the point is well qualified and I

        18       apologize to Senator Solomon for jumping up.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Solomon.

        20                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Will the

        21       sponsor yield, please?

        22                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Sure.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator











                                                             
8469

         1       Sheffer, I just went through the bill and I have

         2       to try and get some answers.  In Brooklyn, we

         3       are trying to build a sports stadium, though, in

         4       fact the initial intent of the sports stadium is

         5       going to be to cater to amateurs, about 7,000

         6       people in an outdoor facility and then a

         7       possible 12,000 people in an indoor facility.

         8       Would they be able to get any benefits under

         9       this bill?

        10                      We have -- we have a not-for

        11       profit corporation, I believe Senator Mega

        12       sponsored that bill.  It should have already -

        13       I believe it passed already.

        14                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  It's difficult

        15       for me to speak to a specific stadium or, in

        16       this case, proposal, and answer the question

        17       definitively.  I -- in -- under the definition

        18       of "sports facility," it says "facility or arena

        19       to be utilized for the operation of profession

        20       al -- of a professional major league sports

        21       team, a professional minor league baseball team"

        22       and then I think the operative language from

        23       your standpoint "and other sports facilities of











                                                             
8470

         1       regional or national significance."

         2                      And so, if the proposal to which

         3       you're referring could be described as being of

         4       regional or national significance, the answer

         5       would be yes.  Doesn't guarantee money to that

         6       project, but would make you eligible to apply.

         7                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  O.K. Thank you,

         8       Senator.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        11       Stachowski.

        12                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        13       President, I just rise to compliment Senator

        14       Sheffer on the bill.  I know all the work that

        15       went into getting this bill worked out.  I had

        16       the pleasure of sitting in on his minor league

        17       baseball hearings and know how important the -

        18       that piece is to every community that has a

        19       minor league team with the added pressure of

        20       major league demands for upgrading their

        21       facilities and the fact that a lot of those

        22       small communities, although they enjoy the

        23       baseball, don't have the wherewithal to do that











                                                             
8471

         1       kind of upgrading, and I think John's

         2       recognition of that in putting this together, as

         3       well as being someone from Buffalo and seeing

         4       that the bill also contains a piece to make sure

         5       that the Buffalo Sabres remain the Buffalo

         6       Sabres, because of the facility that will

         7       probably qualify there, answers a major question

         8       for the people in Buffalo and the western New

         9       York area that are proud to have the Sabres as

        10       their hockey team, and this bill also goes a

        11       long way to make sure that that continues in the

        12       future, and I just wanted to rise and compliment

        13       John on that and ask everyone to support the

        14       bill.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Volker.

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        17       very quickly, let me also compliment Senator

        18       Sheffer and say that the part of this bill

        19       relating to the minor leagues is undoubtedly an

        20       important part, but for us in Buffalo and in

        21       Rochester, because I think one thing the people

        22       in Rochester should realize that if the Buffalo

        23       Sabres had to move its franchise, then the











                                                             
8472

         1       Rochester Americans which is their American

         2       League -- American Hockey League franchise would

         3       also have been lost, as well as two other pro

         4       franchises that are presently in the Memorial

         5       Auditorium in Buffalo.

         6                      This bill, and there's another

         7       chapter amendment that's coming to the local

         8       bill, is the catalyst that helps to hatch a

         9       project, a local public-private project

        10       totalling over $100 million, I think about 115

        11       to $118 million if I'm not mistaken, called

        12       Crossroads which is designed to keep the Buffalo

        13       Sabres in Buffalo, and provide a sports facility

        14       in Buffalo of great proportions and also to

        15       provide an economic development for the water

        16       front in Buffalo.

        17                      It is something that has been

        18       sought by the western New York delegation and,

        19       in conjunction with Senator Sheffer's attempt to

        20       deal with minor league stadiums in Rochester and

        21       Syracuse and a number of other areas, this has

        22       been developed with the Governor and the

        23       Assembly, with Assemblyman Eve and Assemblyman











                                                             
8473

         1       Bragman and Gantt in Rochester, Senator Daly in

         2       this house and, of course, Senator Sheffer, is,

         3       I think one of the most important things that is

         4       going to be passed this session.

         5                      I don't think people really

         6       realize the enormity of the revenue that sports

         7       bring in in this state.  I know they don't, and

         8       I think that we better understand that it is big

         9       business and it's big business that we better

        10       deal with, because it's a very needed business.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        13       DeFrancisco.

        14                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  This

        15       has been an interesting process for me because,

        16       when I first got onto -- into the Senate, it

        17       seemed all the publicity was that this was a

        18       done deal, there was already a bill pending in

        19       the Assembly that was going to take care of the

        20       amount of money that Syracuse needed to build

        21       their stadium.

        22                      Nothing was further from the

        23       truth.  The process was in its infancy when I











                                                             
8474

         1       became a Senator, and I learned very quickly

         2       that appearances really weren't necessarily the

         3       same as reality.  Fortunately, Senator Sheffer

         4       was extremely gracious to me.  Being able to

         5       share a conference room with him, he learned

         6       very early on that he was going to have me as a

         7       nuisance pertaining to this bill all the way

         8       through the process.

         9                      It reached a very big setback, I

        10       think, a few weeks ago when the Governor came

        11       out with his original package, which indicated a

        12       25 percent cap on funding for new stadia, a new

        13       stadium, which would have killed the stadium in

        14       Syracuse.

        15                      The Senate negotiators were

        16       outstanding in removing that cap in this

        17       particular bill, for without that removal, we

        18       would be in deep trouble.  We would not have a

        19       new stadium in Syracuse.

        20                      So now that it's becoming a

        21       reality and all the conditions that are met,

        22       required of a city to demonstrate the need are

        23       in place and one very important thing that











                                                             
8475

         1       hasn't been mentioned that was Senator Sheffer's

         2       idea, and that is that the parent club is going

         3       to have to make a commitment to the community.

         4       They just can't come in and take the funds of

         5       the state of New York and decide they want to

         6       leave without having to reimburse the state for

         7       that investment, a very, very important piece of

         8       this particular legislation.

         9                      I want to thank Senator Sheffer

        10       not only for shepherding this thing through, but

        11       also for making me a part of it, a small part of

        12       it, but at least a part of it to benefit my

        13       district as well.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        15       Masiello.

        16                      SENATOR MASIELLO:  Thank you very

        17       much, Mr. President.

        18                      Certainly, John, thank you for

        19       providing tremendous leadership.  You've done a

        20       yeoman job in putting this bill together to

        21       ensure major league sports in Buffalo, but also

        22       minor league sports throughout the state of New

        23       York.  Your leadership, working along with the











                                                             
8476

         1       Assembly and the Governor, really made this bill

         2       become a reality.

         3                      But to Buffalo it means an awful

         4       lot, Mr. President.  It ensures that Buffalo

         5       will remain a major league sports city for

         6       hockey, for soccer, for rugby, for lacrosse.  It

         7       will ensure that we will have a first class

         8       facility to help us draw entertainment from all

         9       over the country.  It will be a catalyst for the

        10       revitalization of our waterfront in downtown

        11       Buffalo, and I think more importantly it shows

        12       that with a team effort we can be successful.

        13       The city, the county, certainly have contributed

        14       to this arena.  The Knox family, the owners of

        15       the Sabres and the lacrosse and the soccer team,

        16       have contributed upwards of 50 percent to the

        17       new facility.  So this partnership of public and

        18       private entities working together will ensure

        19       that Buffalo will remain a major league sports

        20       team with a first class facility and certainly

        21       would help rejuvenate and revitalize our water

        22       front, and I'm looking forward to this becoming

        23       a reality.











                                                             
8477

         1                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         3                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

         5                      SENATOR DALY:  Would Senator

         6       Sheffer yield for two more questions?

         7                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR DALY:  Going back to

         9       Section 12, we have at line 55 and I should have

        10       asked it before, and I forgot to.  The munici

        11       pality which again we've said is Rochester and

        12       you're talking about the Rochester program, and

        13       the private sector.  Now, it's my understanding

        14       the private sector in this particular case would

        15       be the Rochester baseball team; is that correct?

        16                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.  I -

        17       again, similar to Senator Solomon, I have

        18       difficulty responding regarding specific teams

        19       and municipalities not being familiar with them

        20       all.  In your specific instance, I believe the

        21       answer is yes.

        22                      SENATOR DALY:  Thank you,

        23       Senator.











                                                             
8478

         1                      On page 3, line 16, it says,

         2       language that follows: State funding for

         3       projects that involve the development or

         4       modernization of sports facilities shall not

         5       exceed $60 million in the period April 1, 1994

         6       through March 31st, 1998.

         7                      Does that necessarily mean,

         8       Senator, that any municipality can get no more

         9       than 25 percent in one year, or is that really

        10       spread out over four years?

        11                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  It -- it's a

        12       $60 million total for four years and we have not

        13       attempted to structure it, 25 percent, 25

        14       percent, and so on.

        15                      SENATOR DALY:  In other words, it

        16       could be 50, 25, 50 and 10?  We don't -- the

        17       bill does not mandate that it's the 25 percent

        18       equally.

        19                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Correct.

        20                      SENATOR DALY:  On the bill, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      I, too, would particularly like

        23       to thank Senator Sheffer for his work in this











                                                             
8479

         1       area.  I stand with my right foot in the Buffalo

         2       area and my left foot in the Rochester area, so

         3       I have two reasons to be thankful and again, I

         4       want to apply myself to the -- the Rochester

         5       area and state for the record that the only

         6       facility that has been discussed as far as this

         7       bill is concerned is the baseball facility, and

         8       I think in the case of Rochester, it's

         9       particularly important to make that point and

        10       make that point emphatically.

        11                      The monies that are in here are,

        12       hopefully, for Rochester concern only the

        13       Rochester baseball facility, and I say that, Mr.

        14       President, for the record, and I think Senator

        15       Sheffer agrees with me.  And the nod of his

        16       head, by the way, Mr. President, indicates that

        17       he does.

        18                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Mr. President,

        19       let me not rely on the nod of the head but

        20       respond in the affirmative and also take the

        21       opportunity to thank the really enormous number

        22       of people, colleagues in this chamber on both

        23       sides of the aisle, people from communities











                                                             
8480

         1       across this state involved in professional and

         2       minor league baseball and hockey and other

         3       sports, in making this effort a success.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         8       Dollinger.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  On the

        10       clarification, in response to Senator Daly, I

        11       agree with his assessment that this bill as

        12       currently drafted addresses the baseball issues

        13       specifically, but there is also language in the

        14       general clause which talks about the state's

        15       indication that there are major -- line 3 or 4,

        16       I've got an earlier printed draft, I don't have

        17       the final printed draft, but it says

        18       "professional minor league baseball stadia and

        19       other sports facilities of regional or national

        20       significance," and I don't think that that term

        21       would necessarily preclude any other facility in

        22       Rochester at some other time being a part of the

        23       mix.  But I agree with Senator Daly that this at











                                                             
8481

         1       least in its strong intent is driven by baseball

         2       and I don't think that I at this stage can rule

         3       out the possibility that it may apply to another

         4       major league facility in the city of Rochester.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Kuhl.

         6                      SENATOR KUHL:  Will the sponsor

         7       yield to just a couple questions?

         8                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Sure.

         9                      SENATOR KUHL:  Senator Sheffer, I

        10       think I heard you say that particularly as it

        11       relates to the minor leagues in baseball that

        12       there was a requirement that they were going to

        13       have to rearrange or redo their facilities by

        14       April 1st, 1994, is that correct?

        15                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  According to

        16       the PBA, the Professional Baseball Association

        17       agreement between the major and the minor

        18       leagues signed in 1991.

        19                      SENATOR KUHL:  So there was a

        20       deadline for these communities if they were to

        21       comply with that agreement to renovate their

        22       facilities by April 1st, 1994; is that correct?

        23                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.











                                                             
8482

         1                      SENATOR KUHL: And if I read the

         2       bill correctly, I believe that this funding does

         3       not become available until April 1st, 1994 at

         4       the earliest, is that correct?

         5                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes, and, of

         6       course, only upon the action of the Legislature

         7       as function of the 1994-95 budget next March.

         8                      SENATOR KUHL:  Now, keeping all

         9       of that in mind, is there anything in this bill

        10       that would provide funds to those communities

        11       that have already embarked upon the renovation

        12       of their facilities to comply with those

        13       contracts and are already completing

        14       construction, or is this to prospective kind of

        15       construction that's to be occurring in the years

        16       ahead?

        17                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  No, there is

        18       not.  It's for prospective work.

        19                      SENATOR KUHL:  Does it seem -

        20       well, let me say to you, Senator Sheffer, has

        21       any consideration been given by you or staff

        22       about making, essentially, reimbursement for

        23       communities who have tried to comply with the











                                                             
8483

         1       regulations, the contracts that have been placed

         2       upon them, that you're aware?

         3                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  What we are

         4       responding to here is a request, speaking just

         5       to minor league baseball, that was presented to

         6       our committee at a February 9th hearing, on

         7       behalf of the teams in -- our 15 minor league

         8       teams in our state represented by the three

         9       leagues, and within that request was -- was not

        10       any dollars for retroactive -- for past work.

        11       And so the answer is no, and we've attempted to

        12       speak to the request that was given to the

        13       state.

        14                      SENATOR KUHL:  Was it your

        15       intention, Senator Sheffer, to deny a community

        16       who's been trying to comply with the request and

        17       requirements of the contractual agreement so

        18       that they could essentially save the baseball

        19       teams under the threat of removal from their

        20       particular localities?

        21                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  No, I don't

        22       think that there's any affirmative action here

        23       to deny, and over these next number of months











                                                             
8484

         1       until the program is complete, or the next step

         2       of it is complete, with the appropriation, I can

         3       state to you that you are raising a proper and

         4       reasonable question, that those who have

         5       negotiated this bill, certainly including both

         6       houses and the Governor, and many communities

         7       around this state can take an active look at the

         8       question that you have raised.  I can not

         9       guarantee to you that there would be an answer

        10       satisfactory to you, but I think that you're

        11       raising a proper question, to which there ought

        12       to be a response.

        13                      SENATOR KUHL:  Are you aware of

        14       any other communities that have embarked upon

        15       the reconstruction of their facilities in the

        16       minor league baseball setting?

        17                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  One of the

        18       interesting things about this whole effort is

        19       how very different each of the communities is,

        20       and there are some, for example, in Buffalo who

        21       built the stadium several years ago.  It already

        22       meets the standards, and it just isn't an issue

        23       here.  There are -- there is at least one where











                                                             
8485

         1       the major league team owns the stadium, and so

         2       the major league team themselves put a lot of

         3       money into stadium renovation like in

         4       Binghamton.

         5                      In Elmira, I understand, and I

         6       don't pretend to be expert on the status of each

         7       of these, that the community has acted on their

         8       own initiative to at least begin renovations.

         9       That's been true in a city that I am familiar

        10       with and represent, Batavia, but the answer to

        11       your question is, of the 15, each and every one

        12       is different and some are farther along the line

        13       than others.

        14                      And I do want to say with respect

        15       to the April 1st, '94 PBA deadline that it is

        16       quite literally impossible, even with the pass

        17       age of this bill and the subsequent appropria

        18       tion in the next budget for most of our teams to

        19       meet that deadline, and so a very important part

        20       of our hearing in February and the work that's

        21       been done since and a motivation behind the

        22       passage of this bill is to give us the leverage

        23       to go to the major leagues and say, We in New











                                                             
8486

         1       York State have acted deliberately in good faith

         2       to move this process along and to help our minor

         3       league teams that have been such a critically

         4       important part of the history and fabric of

         5       those communities, and now what we need out of

         6       you, Commissioner's office and major league

         7       teams, is flexibility regarding those deadlines

         8       and we've been given encouragement that because

         9       of this action that the state has taken that we

        10       will be given that flexibility.  I just didn't

        11       want to leave the April 1st issue sit with that

        12       question mark.

        13                      SENATOR KUHL:  Just one last

        14       question, Senator Sheffer.  Would you be willing

        15       to consider an amendment to this particular

        16       piece of legislation that would allow for

        17       communities like Elmira who have, in all good

        18       faith, attempted to comply with that April 1st

        19       deadline and have completed a good portion of

        20       that construction at considerable expense, to be

        21       reimbursed, so to speak, for those outlays in

        22       finances?

        23                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Senator, the











                                                             
8487

         1       answer to your question is yes, speaking for

         2       myself.  I want to emphasize, though, that this

         3       is an agreed, negotiated bill among three

         4       parties and to achieve a chapter amendment that

         5       speaks to that purpose will, of course, not just

         6       take my concurrence but the concurrence of all

         7       of those parties.

         8                      SENATOR KUHL:  I appreciate that,

         9       and thank you.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Substitution.

        12       Senator Marino moves to discharge the Committee

        13       on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8865 and

        14       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        15       1679.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        17       ordered.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8488

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President,

         5       would you now call up Calendar Number 1582. The

         6       bill has been laid on the members' desks.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         8       read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  The Assembly

        10       returned the Senate Committee on Rules bill,

        11       Senate Bill Number 6116, with an Assembly

        12       Reprint Number of 30003, authorize the

        13       participation of local government units and

        14       agencies in the development and construction of

        15       sports and entertainment complex in the city of

        16       Buffalo, with amendments.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Concur in the

        18       amendments and restore the bill to third

        19       reading.

        20                      SENATOR KUHL:  Is there a message

        21       at the desk, Mr. President?

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

        23       message.











                                                             
8489

         1                      SENATOR KUHL:  I move we accept

         2       the message.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

         4       all those in favor, say aye.

         5                      (Response of "Aye.")

         6                      Opposed, nay.

         7                      (There was no response. )

         8                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

         9       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        10                      Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Kuhl.

        20                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes.  May we now

        21       proceed with the active list, Supplemental

        22       Calendar Number 4.  But the first three bills

        23       will be on the regular calendar, our first











                                                             
8490

         1       calendar of the day, starting with Calendar

         2       Number 722.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 11 of the

         4       regular calendar, Calendar Number 722, by member

         5       of the Assembly McEneny, Assembly Bill Number

         6       4906A, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         7       Law.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         9       section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       725, by member of the Assembly Englebright,

        19       substituted earlier, Assembly Bill Number 6521A,

        20       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        21       relation to the construction and financing of

        22       facilities for certain public libraries.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last











                                                             
8491

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

         7       one, Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1564.  On page 27, Calendar Number 1564, by the

        12       Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

        13       Number 8797, Education Law, in relation to

        14       private trade and correspondence schools.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        16       section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        23       passed.











                                                             
8492

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  On Supplemental

         2       Calendar Number 4, Calendar Number 1677, by

         3       Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 4242A, amends

         4       Chapter 68 of the Laws of 1968, Capital

         5       Construction Budget.

         6                      SENATOR KUHL:  Lay it aside

         7       temporarily.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

         9       aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1685, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

        12       5824A, Education Law and the Public Authorities

        13       Law.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Lay it

        15       aside.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        17       aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1686.  Senator Holland moves to discharge the

        20       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        21       8523C C and substitute it for the identical

        22       Third Reading 1686.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution











                                                             
8493

         1       ordered.

         2                      SENATOR KUHL:  Is there a

         3       message?

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

         5       message.  On the motion -

         6                      SENATOR KUHL:  Move we accept the

         7       message.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.

         9       All those in favor say aye.

        10                      (Response of "Aye.")

        11                      Opposed, nay.

        12                      (There was no response. )

        13                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        14       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        15                      SENATOR KUHL:  Lay the bill

        16       aside.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        18       aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1687.  Senator Marino moves to discharge the

        21       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        22       8632 and substitute it for the identical Third

        23       Reading 1687.











                                                             
8494

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         2       ordered.

         3                      Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

         9       one, Senator Saland recorded in the negative.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

        13       Leichter in the negative.

        14                      Calendar Number 1688, by Senator

        15       Padavan, Senate Bill Number 6007, Education Law

        16       and the Civil Service Law.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Lay it

        18       aside.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        20       aside.

        21                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President,

        22       could you call up 1677 at this time? I believe

        23       the objection has been withdrawn.











                                                             
8495

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1677, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

         3       4242A, amends Chapter 68 of the Laws of 1968.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         5       section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        12       passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1689.  Senator Marino moves to discharge the

        15       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        16       8846 and substitute it for the identical Third

        17       Reading 1689.

        18                      SENATOR KUHL:  Is there a message

        19       at the desk?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is.

        21                      SENATOR KUHL:  Move we accept the

        22       message.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The substitution











                                                             
8496

         1       is ordered.

         2                      On the motion, all those in favor

         3       say aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

         8       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

         9                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Lay it aside.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is laid

        11       aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1690, by Senator Espada, Senate Bill Number

        14       6201, Education Law, in relation to

        15       ineligibility for election or appointment to

        16       school district offices.

        17                      SENATOR KUHL:  Is there a

        18       message?

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

        20       message.

        21                      SENATOR KUHL:  I move we accept

        22       the message.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion.











                                                             
8497

         1       All those in favor say aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Those opposed, nay.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

         6       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

         7                      Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        14       passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1691 -

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill will be

        18       laid aside temporarily awaiting substitution.

        19                      SENATOR KUHL:  Before we do that,

        20       can we accept the message?

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  We need to

        22       substitute the Assembly bill first.

        23                      SENATOR KUHL:  Lay it aside.











                                                             
8498

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1692, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         3       Bill Number 6206, creating a temporary task

         4       force on railroad taxes.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       high.  It will be laid aside.

         7                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President,

         8       would you call up Calendar 1688, please, at this

         9       time.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1688, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

        12       6007, Education Law.

        13                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Explanation is

        15       requested.  Senator Padavan.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        17       there are two parts to this bill, one that

        18       establishes a procedure for evaluating and

        19       managing the function of custodial care in our

        20       schools in the city of New York.  The second

        21       part of the bill deals with facilitating of the

        22       availability of those school buildings during

        23       other than school hours for use by youth groups











                                                             
8499

         1       and community groups throughout the city of New

         2       York.

         3                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         6       Gonzalez.

         7                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  I want to

         8       speak on this bill.  Because, on this particular

         9       legislation, what troubles me is that we're

        10       doing legislation where something that should be

        11       taken care of at the collective bargaining

        12       table, and it reminds me of about approximately

        13       two years with Chancellor Fernandez had a

        14       problem with tenure to buildings for principals,

        15       and that was resolved at the table.

        16                      We explicitly send the wrong

        17       message that we're getting into contractual

        18       relationships, where the city of New York,

        19       whoever negotiated back when, gave up certain

        20       provisions at the table, and now we're going to

        21       legislate what they should be taking care of at

        22       the bargaining table.

        23                      There is a history, and I think











                                                             
8500

         1       that in the particular history, if there was a

         2       problem, it usually goes to arbitration; and

         3       once arbitration and all those factors remain, I

         4       think that the city of New York through their

         5       negotiators could achieve what they want to

         6       achieve at the bargaining table and not to

         7       legislate this.

         8                      That's why I am opposed to this

         9       sort of legislation.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        12       Stavisky.

        13                      SENATOR STAVISKY:

        14       Congratulations. 5:30 in the morning, we're

        15       attempting to micromanage the New York City

        16       school system in the waning hours of the

        17       legislative session.  It is not something that

        18       should be done casually or lightly.

        19                      I agree with my colleague.

        20       Senator Gonzalez is absolutely correct.  This is

        21       an end run around the collective bargain

        22       procedure.  It's also an end run around a ruling

        23       by the state Civil Service Commission and by the











                                                             
8501

         1       Supreme Court of the state of New York, and I do

         2       not believe that we in the Legislature, without

         3       consultation with the school officials, not only

         4       the school officials who previously served but

         5       the school officials who will subsequently

         6       serve, we do not know right now the opinion of

         7       the new chancellor of the New York City school

         8       system.  It is my understanding that very

         9       advanced negotiations to find a new Chancellor

        10       after a nationwide search that has month after

        11       month and interview after interview has produced

        12       a candidate who is exceptionally well qualified,

        13       and I'm not sure that there is anyone in this

        14       room who has any idea of what this proposed new

        15       Chancellor feels about this piece of

        16       legislation, because that new Chancellor will

        17       have to deal with this legislation.

        18                      After a nationwide search, it

        19       appears that the New York City Board of

        20       Education wishes to retain the services of Dr.

        21       Bernard Gifford, who previously had been Deputy

        22       Chancellor of the New York City school system.

        23       I have spoken to Dr. Gifford about the custodial











                                                             
8502

         1       issue.

         2                      I agree, as many of you in this

         3       room feel, that there are problems with the

         4       custodial system, that there has to be more

         5       accountability performance standards

         6       established, and I was prepared to sponsor such

         7       legislation when I chaired the Assembly

         8       Education Committee in the other house. At that

         9       point, the same Dr. Bernard Gifford said,

        10        "Leonard, do not alter profoundly what we

        11       have.  As bad as it is, it has saved the city of

        12       New York and the Board of Education a good deal

        13       of money."

        14                      I have profound respect for Dr.

        15       Gifford. His knowledge of the New York City

        16       school system is intimate.  His understanding of

        17       fiscal affairs is exceptional, and I would hope

        18       that the Legislature would show this new

        19       Chancellor, if we can prevail upon him to come

        20       to New York City and head that troubled New York

        21       City school system, that we would consult him,

        22       ask his advice, before we plunge into action

        23       between 25 and 20 to 6:00 this waning moment of











                                                             
8503

         1       this legislative session.

         2                      I heard some comments on the

         3       floor yesterday as to why a certain piece of

         4       legislation should be voted upon a certain way,

         5       and one of my colleagues on the other side of

         6       the aisle said, "Take into account that the New

         7       York State AFL-CIO has a certain position on

         8       that bill," and he was very persuasive, and I

         9       noticed that after he made that announcement in

        10       explaining his vote that labor was opposed to a

        11       certain position, that members of this

        12       Legislature listened.

        13                      The New York State AFL-CIO,

        14       labor, the unions in New York State, are opposed

        15       to this piece of legislation for the reason that

        16       it is an end run around collective bargaining,

        17       for the reason that it seeks to undo what was

        18       attempted by the board of education and

        19       successfully challenged in a ruling before the

        20       state Civil Service Commission and a decision by

        21       the New York State Supreme Court.

        22                      I don't think this is the time

        23       for us to plunge into this issue in direct











                                                             
8504

         1       opposition to collective bargaining, in

         2       opposition to the wishes of the labor movement

         3       in this state, and in violation of what has

         4       already been decided upon as having been an

         5       improper procedure in the actions taken by the

         6       Civil Service Commission and a state Supreme

         7       Court.

         8                      Tread lightly on this issue.  Let

         9       the New York City school system find its

        10       Chancellor.  Then we will be back in September.

        11       If that Chancellor -- who knows more about this

        12       issue than any of us in this room -- if that

        13       Chancellor says this is the way to go, then I

        14       will get up and join you that this is the way to

        15       go, but not tonight, this morning, this hour.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        17                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.  I would certainly echo the

        19       se ntiments that have already been made.  There

        20       are opposition memoranda filed by every local

        21       and union that is involved in the school system,

        22       including the coalition of unions representing

        23       New York City Board of Education employees.











                                                             
8505

         1                      Senator Stavisky has mentioned -

         2       let me put it in proper order.  PERB has already

         3       ruled that these employees are management

         4       confidential so legislation doing that is at

         5       best redundant, ridiculous at 20 of 6:00 o'clock

         6       in the morning.

         7                      There has been a Supreme Court

         8       decision, and there has been a decision of the

         9       Civil Service Commission of the state of New

        10       York which this legislation is attempting to

        11       overturn, and I would certainly suggest to my

        12       colleagues that we do not do it today.

        13                      I note that this bill barely, and

        14       I mean barely, passed the Assembly, achieving

        15       some 77 votes in that house with 63 votes

        16       against it, and I would encourage my colleagues

        17       not to vote for this piece of legislation.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  This bill did

        20       not pass the Assembly.  A similar bill passed

        21       the Assembly.  That bill has been amended to

        22       conform with the one that's before us, and they

        23       are prepared to pass it as soon as we send it to











                                                             
8506

         1       them.

         2                      This bill is supported by the New

         3       York Special Commission, Commissioner of

         4       Investigation for the New York City school

         5       districts, supported by the Mayor of the city of

         6       New York, supported by the Public Education

         7       Association, the Education Priorities Panel, the

         8       Conference of Big Five School Districts, the New

         9       York City Partnership, the Community Service

        10       Society, the New York State School Boards

        11       Association, advocates for children, the NAACP

        12       Metro Council of Branches, the New York City

        13       Department of Youth Services, the Parents

        14       Coalition for Education in New York City and the

        15       Fund for New York City Public Education, and

        16       it's supported by the Board of Education of the

        17       city of New York -- the Board of Education of

        18       the city of New York.

        19                      I have had direct conversations

        20       with the president of that board who was elected

        21       unanimously by every member on this very issue,

        22       Harold Bresser, from our county in Queens.  They

        23       want this bill because it is meaningful reform











                                                             
8507

         1       in how our schools are going to be operated.

         2                      Yes, it does establish a new

         3       system.  What are the components of this new

         4       system?

         5                      It provides 32 plant managers,

         6       one for each community school board,

         7       responsible; two superintendents of each school

         8       district to work with principals in each of the

         9       schools with one and only one objective in mind,

        10       to ensure that those schools are maintained and

        11       kept in the best possible fashion. And then

        12       problems that might arise through no fault of

        13       the custodian can be resolved through the

        14       superintendent and through the system, problems

        15       that might relate to resources, problems that

        16       might relate to contracts yet to be put out for

        17       bidding, a variety of things that must be done.

        18                      This is not an end run around

        19       anybody. What it is is a very honest,

        20       straightforward attempt to do something that is

        21       long overdue.  Long overdue.

        22                      Most of the schools in the city

        23       of New York in my district and elsewhere are











                                                             
8508

         1       maintained in an appropriate fashion; but,

         2       unfortunately, there are a number which are not,

         3       and until such time as we can provide a

         4       management level of supervision and a system of

         5       evaluation that involves the principal -- the

         6       principal in the school, who currently is

         7       totally excluded from having anything directly

         8       to say as to how his school is maintained -- he

         9       is out of the loop.  The community school

        10       district superintendents, 32 of them, who are

        11       responsible to the parents, to the children, to

        12       the Chancellor, to the board of education, have

        13       nothing very much to say currently about how

        14       custodial services are performed.

        15                      And so all of the people that I

        16       have told you about, including the board of

        17       education -- I know nothing about a Chancellor

        18       yet unnamed.  I know about the one who just

        19       left.  He was in support of this.  But I do know

        20       there's seven people down there appointed by

        21       borough presidents and the mayor, are very much

        22       in support of this, pleading with us to

        23       accomplish this fact.











                                                             
8509

         1                      Yes, the custodian engineers are

         2       opposed.  I don't know what the coalition of

         3       unions are.  That is the union and the local

         4       that is opposed.  I respect their view, and I

         5       understand their opposition.  They want no

         6       change in the status quo.

         7                      And the change in the system

         8       structurally cannot be done by collective

         9       bargaining.  It has to be done by law, and

        10       that's what we're going to try and do here

        11       tonight.

        12                      So I urge your support, and if

        13       there are any specific questions you would like

        14       to ask of me about how this bill works and what

        15       it does -- no mention here so far, other than my

        16       brief explanation, about the very important part

        17       of the bill that involves opening up these 900

        18       some-odd schools which today sit as a resource

        19       in every community throughout the city of New

        20       York and are not used very often or very well

        21       because of certain restrictions that currently

        22       are imposed on their use, not by parents, not by

        23       principals, not by superintendents, but by











                                                             
8510

         1       others.

         2                      That's an important part of the

         3       bill that we have here to consider and should

         4       not be overlooked as we think about it.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         6       Stachowski.

         7                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         8       President, just briefly on the bill.

         9                      I would like to join along with

        10       Senator Lack and Senator Stavisky in pointing

        11       out the union opposition, and the reason for it

        12       because of collective bargaining. Regardless of

        13       the fact that Senator Padavan says the only way

        14       any change can be accomplished is through law,

        15       there's a large number of us who feel that

        16       collective bargaining agreements should still be

        17       followed, and that that is the vehicle that

        18       should be used for this sort of change.

        19                      And to be specific, Local 891

        20       AFL-CIO has a memo in opposition -- that's the

        21       local -- as well as the International Union of

        22       Operating Engineers also has a memo against

        23       this, and Senator Stavisky mentioned the











                                                             
8511

         1       AFL-CIO, and Senator Lack mentioned all the

         2       school unions.

         3                      I think that this loud opposition

         4       to stepping on the collective bargaining system

         5       is important to take note of when we vote on

         6       this bill.  Granted there's some good parts to

         7       this bill, but the fact is, because there are a

         8       lot of good parts, we can't overlook this one

         9       extremely bad part of this bill.

        10                      I find it interesting that just a

        11       couple nights ago the city of New York was

        12       against getting a bill done that would help a

        13       union situation; and today the city of New York

        14       is for getting a bill done which will hurt a

        15       union situation.

        16                      Last time, the bill was carried

        17       by Senator Maltese where despite the fact that

        18       the city of New York was in favor of it, he got

        19       tremendous support because it was good for the

        20       union position and the safety of the workers but

        21       basically the union position.

        22                      So that we hope that now, when

        23       this particular union, which isn't a police











                                                             
8512

         1       union, asks for the same kind of support from

         2       the Legislature that they, too, get it.

         3                      And I hope that we vote to defeat

         4       this bill.

         5                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Marchi.

         7                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Will the Senator

         8       yield?

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, sir.

        10                      SENATOR MARCHI:  We have a bill

        11       coming up.  I'm just wondering whether this is

        12       in conflict.

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, not at all,

        14       Senator. The establishment of the plant managers

        15       in each of the community school board districts,

        16       their reporting function and evaluation by

        17       principals and community school board

        18       superintendents, would not in any way conflict

        19       with the bill that you and I certainly are in

        20       support of dealing with borough boards. No

        21       conflict whatsoever.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes.  Thank











                                                             
8513

         1       you, Mr. President.  This piece of legislation

         2       came up as an integral part of the Marchi

         3       Commission which I had the privilege of serving

         4       on. I agree with some of my colleagues that this

         5       is a horrible, horrible time to bring up this

         6       kind of legislation. It is even worse to bring

         7       up the other piece of legislation which is

         8       calling for major reform in our educational

         9       system at 10 minutes to 6:00 in the morning.

        10                      But during the course of the

        11       hearings that we held, we had the custodians

        12       come in, and they testified, and they were

        13       opposed to certain matters.  And as we

        14       investigated, we were concerned about, one, the

        15       access to the schools after the schools close

        16       down and the fees that were involved.  This bill

        17       covers that.

        18                      In addition thereto, we found a

        19       horrible relationship between the custodians and

        20       the teachers.  We found a system which called on

        21       complaints being sent over to Queens and piled

        22       on someone's desk, and by the time they got

        23       around to remedying those conditions in the











                                                             
8514

         1       school, they had deteriorated to the point that

         2       the original complaint was no longer a small one

         3       but a large one.

         4                      The relationship between the

         5       custodial engineers and the school has been

         6       horrible for many, many years. No one in the

         7       sound of my voice respects union concepts any

         8       more than I do.

         9                      We have a bill that's going to be

        10       coming up a little later which has to do with

        11       changing the governance, because our school

        12       system has failed and they are not educating our

        13       youngsters.

        14                      The settings in the schools are

        15       horrible because of lack of relationship between

        16       the custodians and the teachers.  Custodians

        17       don't even speak with teachers in the school as

        18       testimony came out.  They dictate to the

        19       principals what they want to do and what they do

        20       not want to do.

        21                      This piece of legislation goes in

        22       the right direction, Senator Padavan.  And I'm

        23       going to vote for it because I think it's part











                                                             
8515

         1       of a total package of changing our educational

         2       system so that our youngsters can be educated.

         3       Proper setting for education is extremely

         4       important.  Plaster falling in our classrooms,

         5       desks not repaired, pipes not repaired and

         6       sometimes with a sense of arrogance saying, "We

         7       don't care about it; we're going to let it take

         8       its course."

         9                      It's a difficult bill for some

        10       because there are those of us who have looked at

        11       the unions with great support.  I have heard

        12       some rumors that the minority report which I put

        13       in, which is now a piece of legislation breaking

        14       down five boroughs, they tell me that it's dead,

        15       not going to go anywhere.  We have it here this

        16       morning, which is interesting being it's five

        17       minutes to 6:00.

        18                      Do you know why they tell us the

        19       bill is dead.  It's dead because the union wants

        20       to kill it, because the union doesn't want to go

        21       through the problem or the trouble of

        22       negotiating with five separate boroughs.

        23                      And when you say to them, Well,











                                                             
8516

         1       what about our kids? Is it a given that they are

         2       not being educated? Have we lost a generation of

         3       our youngsters as a result of a poor educational

         4       system with some good teachers who want to

         5       teach?  The answer is yes.

         6                      But there comes a time when the

         7       unions are going to price themselves out of the

         8       market.  What price do we have to pay for our

         9       commitment to the unions? Do we sacrifice our

        10       children? Do we keep our schools closed in the

        11       evening so people in the community if they were

        12       open to participate -- the answer, I think, is

        13       our children are important and should be

        14       primary.

        15                      Our communities should be

        16       serviced.  The schools that are there like most

        17       of us -- I guess most of us -- finish school at

        18       3:00 o'clock, public school system, the gym was

        19       open until 3:00, 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 at night.

        20       Now, if you go to a school and try to have a

        21       community meeting, it will probably cost you

        22       some $80, $90, $200, perhaps even more, and

        23       these fees are set not by the superintendent,











                                                             
8517

         1       not by the principals, not by the Central Board

         2       of Education, but they are set based on perhaps

         3       the negotiations or collective bargaining, but

         4       certainly they are not open.

         5                      So I say this is a small step in

         6       the right direction, that the cooperation as far

         7       as the custodial engineers and teachers are

         8       concerned, and superintendents, there has to be

         9       that sense of accountability.

        10                      So I think it's an excellent

        11       piece of legislation.  I'm going to support it,

        12       Senator.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Slow roll call.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        18                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Slow roll

        19       call.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  A slow roll call

        21       is requested.  Evidently a sufficient number of

        22       Senators are requesting a slow roll call.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.











                                                             
8518

         1       excused.

         2                      Senator Bruno.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      Senator Connor excused.

         5                      Senator Cook.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Senator Daly.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        10                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        12       Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        15                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Galiber.

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        23       Gonzalez.











                                                             
8519

         1                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Mr. President.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gonzalez

         3       is recognized to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  As I said

         5       before that this particular legislation intrudes

         6       on the collective bargaining agreement, but I

         7       want to make a point that the boss is the board

         8       of education.  They promulgate.  They move the

         9       rules, they -- and that is negotiable at the

        10       table.

        11                      The schools are not open because

        12       the board of education, they're making the

        13       custodians the bad people; they're not.  It's at

        14       the bargaining table that that must be dealt

        15       with, and it could have been dealt with, and it

        16       should be dealt with that way and, for that

        17       reason, I vote no.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Goodman.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Senator Halperin.

        21                      SENATOR HALPERIN:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.











                                                             
8520

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         2       Hoffmann.

         3                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      Senator Kuhl.

        11                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        13                      SENATOR LACK:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

        17                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter

        22       to explain his vote.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  To explain my











                                                             
8521

         1       vote.

         2                      Mr. President, I think great

         3       importance should be placed on the collective

         4       bargaining system, but there are times when that

         5       process does not work.  I'm told that for three

         6       years there's been an effort to reach an agree

         7       ment with the custodians.  It has not succeeded.

         8       This Legislature has often stepped in where

         9       collective bargaining has failed.  Just a few

        10       days ago we passed a bill which imposed certain

        11       retirement benefits on the city of New York

        12       because we felt that employer was not bargaining

        13       in sufficient good faith and we thought it,

        14       therefore, appropriate for us to see that the

        15       collective bargaining system, not having worked

        16       in that instance, be replaced by our action.

        17                      It's well documented how the

        18       custodians are acting in a manner that's not in

        19       the interest of the children of New York.

        20       There's no accountability, no responsibility.

        21       Part of the disgraceful condition that the

        22       schools of New York are in are due to the fact

        23       that the custodians are not responsible.  This











                                                             
8522

         1       bill will give the employer the control that it

         2       deserves to have.

         3                      I vote in the affirmative.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         5                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      Senator Marchi.

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Marchi is

        13       recognized.

        14                      SENATOR MARCHI:  It's apparent

        15       that we have a Hobson's choice, and it sounds

        16       like an issue that we may have to revisit; but,

        17       based on the statements that have been made this

        18       morning, I would have to vote yes at this

        19       point.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino.

        21                      (Affirmative indication. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.

        23                      Senator Markowitz.











                                                             
8523

         1                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Yes.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         3       Masiello.

         4                      (There was no response. )

         5                      Senator Mega.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Senator Mendez.

         8                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mendez is

        10       recognized.

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Explain my

        12       vote.

        13                      I am supporting this bill,

        14       although I have like many of my colleagues here

        15       consistently supported unions, by supporting

        16       unions who have been supporting workers in their

        17       aspirations for economic justice.  In this

        18       instance, we have to take into consideration the

        19       needs of the children.

        20                      If this bill doesn't go through,

        21       and the Assembly doesn't pass this bill and this

        22       doesn't become law, then the situation that has

        23       been prevailing in the city schools for too long











                                                             
8524

         1       will keep on being the same.  For a better

         2       education for our children in New York City, we

         3       need to change this situation, and labor should

         4       not interpret that this is an attack on them

         5       because it is not.  It is just fairness and

         6       justice, and it has to be done.  So we hope that

         7       this bill will resolve that situation, and the

         8       unions can be reorganized and keep on from there

         9       on.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  How do you vote?

        12                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        14       Montgomery.

        15                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nolan.

        17                      SENATOR NOLAN:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Nozzolio.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Ohrenstein.

        23                      (Affirmative indication. )











                                                             
8525

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.

         2                      Senator Onorato.

         3                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Oppenheimer.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Pataki.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Senator Paterson.

        12                      (There was no response. )

        13                      Senator Present.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        16                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        18       Santiago.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Senator Sears.

        21                      SENATOR SEARS:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

        23                      SENATOR SEWARD:  No.











                                                             
8526

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sheffer.

         2                      SENATOR SHEFFER:  Yes.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

         6                      SENATOR SMITH:  Yes.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

         8                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

        10                      SENATOR SPANO:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        12       Stachowski.

        13                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        15       Stafford.

        16                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        18       Stavisky.

        19                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President,

        20       I rise to explain my vote very briefly.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stavisky

        22       is recognized.

        23                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  There are many











                                                             
8527

         1       things that are in this bill's objective with

         2       which everyone in this chamber would agree.

         3       Yes, the schools should be open at all hours -

         4       afternoons, evenings, week ends, summer months,

         5       so that they can perform a function.  But we

         6       have changed as a society.  It costs money to

         7       open schools because many things that were done

         8       by individuals working for different

         9       institutions on a voluntary non-paid basis no

        10       longer operate that way.

        11                      There were times when teachers,

        12       for whom I have great respect in the way that

        13       they carry out their missions, would volunteer

        14       to serve as coaches and as advisers to after

        15       school activities.  That system has changed and

        16       now the after-school programs are primarily

        17       entrusted to teachers and others who are paid

        18       for their services.

        19                      Many physicians used to volunteer

        20       their time at clinics free of charge but, with

        21       affiliation contracts, many medical and health

        22       care professionals are now being paid for the

        23       very services that they rendered free of charge.











                                                             
8528

         1       That's the problem with regard to the opening of

         2       schools.  Somebody now expects to be paid for

         3       something that all of us say should be done free

         4       of charge.

         5                      I would concur, but I can not

         6       give away the labor of someone else when that

         7       individual now expects to be paid.  There are

         8       conflicts.  Do you spend your money on opening

         9       the schools for after-school activities, or do

        10       you spend the money for teachers?  And remember,

        11       my colleagues, the New York City school system

        12       is not necessarily given all of the state aid to

        13       which it should be entitled, and we in this

        14       chamber bear some of that responsibility.

        15                      So I'm saying understand the

        16       realities.  Yes, I support the objectives that

        17       have been stated by the proponents here.  But is

        18       there the money to educate and, at the same

        19       time, carry out these after-school functions?

        20       And with a hard-pressed board of education

        21       budget, I am not sure.

        22                      For the reasons I stated earlier

        23       and for the reasons I've stated now, at this











                                                             
8529

         1       time, I will vote no.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

         3                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  No.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

         5                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

         7                      (There was no response. )

         8                      Senator Volker.

         9                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        11                      (Negative indication. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  No.

        13                      Senator Wright.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the

        16       absentees.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno.

        18                      (There was no response. )

        19                      Senator Cook.

        20                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Daly.

        22                      SENATOR DALY:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.











                                                             
8530

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      Senator Goodman.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      Senator Jones.

         5                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         7                      SENATOR MALTESE:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Masiello.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Senator Pataki.

        12                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Santiago.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Senator Seward.

        19                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        21                      SENATOR VELELLA:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  No.











                                                             
8531

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Results.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37, nays 15.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         4       passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6        -- I'm sorry.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Go ahead.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  1685.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1685, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

        12       5824-A, Education Law and the Public Authorities

        13       Law.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Explanation is

        16       requested.  Senator Marchi.

        17                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

        18       some of the earlier conversations that we've had

        19       and discussions and a long train of events that

        20       started back in 1962, I guess, when I introduced

        21       a bill that was later reiterated by Senator

        22       Galiber in the Minority expression at our

        23       commission report of the study that we conducted











                                                             
8532

         1       recently, and that bill in 1962 would have

         2       provided for five separate boards.

         3                      What the Legislature did at that

         4       time was to provide borough aid in the amount of

         5       $120 million, which was a substantial enrich

         6       ment of the -- of the existing pattern of state

         7       assistance for public education in the city of

         8       New York.

         9                      Nothing happened there until we

        10       had the decentralization bill in 1969, in 1970,

        11       and that bill was revisited by the commission

        12       that Senator Galiber and I served on, members

        13       from this house, and the commission made a

        14       report which was speedily outdated by events

        15       that flowed not from the -- not from bad

        16       intentions on the part of the chancellor but by

        17       what I felt was a squandering of good will that

        18       he had created, and galvanized again a spirit in

        19       support of a separate borough system.

        20                      Assemblyman Del Toro passed

        21       legislation on the basis of the study of the

        22       commission with some variations but, by and

        23       large, adhered to the traditional concept of one











                                                             
8533

         1       central board, and this came into conflict, very

         2       strong conflict, with the spirit that existed

         3       very strongly in the boroughs for the creation

         4       of a borough system of education -- five

         5       separate districts.

         6                      The Governor gave support to this

         7       thesis by suggesting, at least in a conceptual

         8       way, the very same concept and when -- my

         9       co-sponsors, Senator Galiber, Senator Padavan,

        10       Senator Maltese, Senator Mega, when he was with

        11       us, and Senator Velella, all joined in and

        12       advanced this bill.

        13                      We had strong support from the -

        14       from the boroughs.  I received a statement

        15       issued by Claire Schulman, president of the

        16       board of education -- president of the borough

        17       of Queens, very strongly supportive of the

        18       effort that we were making here, in which she

        19       said -- stated in the message: "That is why I

        20       have worked closely with Manhattan Borough

        21       President Ruth Messinger, Senator Marchi and his

        22       staff to develop legislation to create a de

        23       centralized school system that would provide











                                                             
8534

         1       greater accountability and achieve greater

         2       success.

         3                       "I believe the version of the

         4       Marchi bill now before the Senate is the best

         5       possible hope for the future of education, and I

         6       am confident that minor differences between

         7       Senator Marchi's bill and the bill I proposed

         8       with Borough President Messinger can be

         9       successfully resolved in conference with the

        10       Assembly.  I am also greatly encouraged by

        11       Governor Cuomo's support for fundamental change

        12       in the current structure of education."

        13                      Mr. President, the bill that we

        14       joined jointly, myself and Senator Maltese,

        15       Senator Mega, Senator Padavan, Senator Velella

        16       and Senator Galiber, is that vehicle.  I don't

        17       assume that a bill that would eventually be

        18       signed into law would be totally on track with

        19       this because in the statement issued by the

        20       borough president of Queens, there are some

        21       differences and there are differences certainly

        22       with the version that was presented by Senator

        23        -- Assemblyman Del Toro, but in my presence,











                                                             
8535

         1       many of the people that voted for that bill -- I

         2       was in the Assembly at the time -- indicated

         3       that they had -- if they had this alternative,

         4       they could support this also.

         5                      So clearly, Mr. President, this

         6       is a vehicle by which we can advance, I think,

         7       in great part the substance of the legislation

         8       that would eventually describe and delineate the

         9       governance of the school system in the city of

        10       New York and we would be performing a valuable

        11       service in advancing this concept, because it is

        12       the dominant theme on the second floor.  It is

        13       the dominant theme in the statement issued by

        14       the Board of Regents who, in many ways, tracked

        15       almost word for word the concepts that undergird

        16       the bill that we have sponsored jointly and is

        17       now before you; and their statement tracks

        18       almost word for word and issue by issue with the

        19       position that we articulated some time ago.

        20                      So the bill is now before us.  It

        21       does several things.  It reorganizes the New

        22       York City school system by dissolving the

        23       present central board and the officer of the











                                                             
8536

         1       chancellor, and it transfers responsibility for

         2       running general purpose high schools to the

         3       community districts and making borough boards of

         4       education and borough superintendents the

         5       primary governance structure.

         6                      We do create the position of

         7       administrator to perform functions best handled

         8       centrally:  Compilation of district fiscal

         9       estimates, administration of state aid that

        10       comes to the city, administration of special

        11       theme high schools and assimilation of the

        12       student and school performance data.

        13                      This administrator, in a way,

        14       parallels the definition of a central board by

        15       the Board of Regents, and the administrator

        16       would be the primary employer, so that all

        17       contracts involving personnel in the city of New

        18       York would be directed to the administrator.

        19                      The administrator would be

        20       appointed by the mayor of the city of New York

        21       with the advice and consent of the City Council,

        22       under regulations and norms described by the

        23       Commissioner of Education.











                                                             
8537

         1                      So we have a parallel to that

         2       offered by the Board of Regents, and it's only

         3       in -- in the terminology that there is any

         4       substantive difference.  There is no substantive

         5       difference in terms of actual effect.

         6                      So that, in summarizing the

         7       provisions of the present bill that is before

         8       you, the bill would abolish the New York City

         9       school board.  It would abolish the office of

        10       the chancellor.  It would create a borough board

        11       of governance, create the position of borough

        12       superintendent whose selection by the borough

        13       boards would be subject to the advice and

        14       consent of the Commissioner; charge the borough

        15       boards with virtually all of the functions now

        16       entrusted to the central board.

        17                      It would create the administrator

        18       of the City School District to enter -- to

        19       handle centralized data and also to be the

        20       primary employer, and the contract involving

        21       personnel in the city of New York would be

        22       conducted through the office of the

        23       administrator.











                                                             
8538

         1                      There is ample justification for

         2       what is suggested here, because the system

         3       plainly is not functioning.  Decentralization

         4       would provide a more tailored approach through

         5       the respective boroughs in this City to this -

         6       to this problem.

         7                      It would also provide us with an

         8       opportunity for voting at the general election

         9       on the same machine that we conduct the general

        10       election day.  It would be on election day

        11       ensuring a maximum turn-out by the public at the

        12       election of the borough board -- of the

        13       community boards.

        14                      This means that, in compliance

        15       with the state Constitution and the law of this

        16       state, citizens would be able to vote in the

        17       general election, admittedly in an off year, but

        18       nevertheless on election day ensuring the

        19       greatest possible turn-out and enable them to

        20       cast a vote, they would have a voting three of

        21       nine of their respective community boards and we

        22        -- you would know and have a result immediately

        23       with full participation, and full participation











                                                             
8539

         1       and involvement by the part of the public has to

         2       be integral to a functioning system that is

         3       meaningful.  Otherwise, when we had this

         4       fractional diluted turn-out which admittedly

         5       crested to some point, but still was only about

         6       20 percent, I believe in the city of New York,

         7       15 percent, generally.  But it was -- that was

         8       the high water mark at the last election.

         9                      This would ensure a full

        10       participation by the public of the city of New

        11       York in the selection of their community

        12       boards.

        13                      So I submit, Mr. President -

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Excuse

        15       me, Senator Marchi.

        16                      Senator Mendez.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Will you yield

        18       for a question?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        20       Marchi, will you yield to a question?

        21                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Always, always.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        23       yields.











                                                             
8540

         1                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you; thank

         2       you.

         3                      You know, Senator Marchi, strange

         4       things happen at night, and also strange things

         5       happen in the early morning.  We all -- we are

         6       all aware of the hard work and contributions

         7       that you have made in many areas, but in this

         8       instance in the area of education through your

         9       commission and with Senator Galiber as well and

        10       we are all most grateful for it.

        11                      The strange thing that has

        12       happened is that because strange things happen,

        13       this bill that affects the education of all the

        14       children in that city that we all love so very

        15       much, was released for consideration at 3:00

        16       o'clock, 3:00 o'clock in the morning, and the -

        17       the implications of passing this bill today are

        18       so huge and so drastic, in a sense, that we

        19       might -- we might regret taking that action

        20       today when we are all very tired and being a

        21       whole night without sleeping, and so that -- but

        22       with all this, my first question is would you -

        23                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Senator, next to











                                                             
8541

         1       me, you're a young girl.

         2                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I mean the

         3       Senator is just superb.  That comment alone

         4       makes me -- would make me think about voting for

         5       the bill, but -- in appreciation.

         6                      But really, Senator Marchi, would

         7       you -- wouldn't you -- do you feel that creating

         8       five boards, five boards of education for the

         9       five boroughs of the city of New York would

        10       create five big bureaucracies?  Yes, you are in

        11       it, you are demanding -

        12                      SENATOR MARCHI:  We're opting -

        13       we have a large bureaucracy at the present time,

        14       but you have borough structures already, and the

        15       accretion would not be significant if you no

        16       longer had a central board.  You would have an

        17       administrator who would be a primary employer,

        18       but it's a wholly different matter if that -- if

        19       that personnel were available at the grass roots

        20       and formulating policy for the five counties.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  See, Senator

        22       Marchi, if I understand correctly at least parts

        23       of your bill, you basically -- you are stream











                                                             
8542

         1       lining the central functions of the board like

         2       personnel, fiscal policy, fiscal activities in

         3       an administrator that will be appointed by the

         4       mayor and -- and confirmed by the council.

         5                      SENATOR MARCHI:  With the

         6       confirmation of the council.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Then we would

         8       have these elections and the borough president

         9       would be appointing people to the board, would

        10       the various borough president?

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, the

        12       borough boards, you would have composing that

        13       board you would have -- yeah, one by the mayor,

        14       one by the city council, three by the borough

        15       president and two by the constituent community

        16       board in that borough.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Now, now, you

        18       have mentioned decentralization in your

        19       explanation of the bill, and -- and in my view,

        20       the true decentralization has never occurred in

        21       the school system of New York City.  We know at

        22       least the idea that I have that upstate New

        23       York, there is a regular school board of -- of











                                                             
8543

         1        -- school board of education, elected members.

         2       They do have a superintendent from BOCES that

         3       performs the function of a middle manager like

         4       what the central board in New York is, in terms

         5       of the Commissioner of Education of the state.

         6                      Wouldn't you say -- wouldn't you

         7       agree that, if we were to benefit from the

         8       experience of many other school systems

         9       throughout these states, that they are more

        10       manageable in size, and we would have -- we

        11       could have a central administrator appointed by

        12       anybody, the mayor or whatever, appointed by the

        13       mayor to again retain, as your bill specifies,

        14       the functions of the central board, the

        15       personnel and fiscal activities of the central

        16       board and then have those 32 community school

        17       districts perform with a district superintendent

        18       in charge, perform in the same fashion which the

        19       other school districts throughout the state do

        20       perform?

        21                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, that's not

        22       a bad development, Senator, but there are some

        23       differences.  We have over 700 boards of











                                                             
8544

         1       education in the -- in the state of New York,

         2       and they're fiscally independent.  They have

         3       their own taxing powers.  It's -- the situations

         4       aren't that comparable when you compare it to

         5       the present circumstances.

         6                      This is the ideal way of

         7       approaching it, I believe, in a city of our

         8       size.  We have to -- we're dealing with

         9       tremendous numbers; we're dealing with a

        10       fiscally dependent board which still has to

        11       depend on the largesse or the willingness or the

        12       responsiveness of general government to -- to

        13       the needs of the -- of these people.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  But, Senator

        15       Marchi, but if we would approve those five

        16       borough boards, still those five borough boards

        17       would be dependent upon the largesse of the city

        18       and the state in terms of funding.

        19                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes, because

        20       we're fiscally dependent, but the direction and

        21       the -- and the policy within the respective

        22       schools would be under the control of borough

        23       entities and your community boards within the











                                                             
8545

         1       boroughs.

         2                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Wouldn't you say

         3       that the same -- the same amount of politicking

         4       that has occurred with the appointees in the

         5       present central board, the appointees of the

         6       five borough presidents and the mayor that have

         7       resulted in the unfortunate loss of a very great

         8       educational leader, Chancellor Fernandez, that

         9       that same kind of possibility could exist, of

        10       course, at each borough level by the appointees

        11       of the borough presidents and the other

        12       appointees of the others, wouldn't you say that

        13       that situation could be replicated at the

        14       borough level as well?

        15                      SENATOR MARCHI:  We have -- we

        16       have the opportunity of involving the larger

        17       public in a very significant way through this

        18       medium, and it -- I think that it is plainly

        19       indicated before we have -- if we instituted

        20       boards on the size that are the average

        21       throughout the state, you would have several

        22       hundred community boards acting as independent

        23       units.  I don't think we're quite ready to go











                                                             
8546

         1       that far.

         2                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No, but we -

         3                      SENATOR MARCHI:  We are ready to

         4       go as far as our boroughs, I think.  There is

         5       sufficient consciousness and ability to relate

         6       to our respective boroughs.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  One last

         8       question.  One last question, if I may.  One

         9       last question.

        10                      One last question if I may.  I'll

        11       get there.  I'll get that, one last question.

        12       What was it?  Oh, yes, yes.

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I hope we have

        14       you in the negotiation, Senator, when we're

        15       finally working out the ultimate bill.

        16                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Marchi,

        17       Mr. President, one last question.  One of the

        18       preoccupations that the teachers' union in the

        19       city of New York do have, with the changes in

        20       the -- in the possible changes in city

        21       governance of the schools is that contractual -

        22       contractual -- the contractual process might

        23       become more difficult for them.











                                                             
8547

         1                      When, in discussing this with

         2       Miss Feldman, I mentioned that, and this does

         3       apply -- I want your opinion of this, the same

         4       applies to the five local boards, that they need

         5       not be concerned with that because negotiations

         6       would proceed either by an independent -

         7       independent bargaining committee with the

         8       representative of teachers, board members or

         9       whatever over the existing boards, so that only

        10       one contract would be negotiated for all the 32

        11       schools, in the sense of the word.  In your

        12       case, is that -

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, I'm

        14       responding.  My response, Senator, Mr.

        15       President, the bill does provide for the conduct

        16       of those -- the contract negotiations with the

        17       administrator, so that you have that central

        18       operation but, you know, neither Senator Padavan

        19       or myself or Senator Galiber, Senator Velella,

        20       Senator Maltese, we have not heard any word of

        21       opposition from Miss Feldman.

        22                      I mean, as far as we know, and

        23       certainly there was a burden to inform us that











                                                             
8548

         1       they -- if they were nervous about the whole

         2       thing.  Don't you think it was a burden to at

         3       least tell us?  But there is no -- there is no

         4       memorandum against their legislation anywhere,

         5       unless it's secret.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

         7       No.  No.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  But, you know,

         9       we like to operate in an open society here and

        10       we're not getting it.

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator, I want

        12       is to make a correction.  There is no formal

        13       opposition to your plan that I know of.  What I

        14       was revealing here was a private conversation

        15       that I had with her, where I proposed 32

        16       appointed local community school boards, one

        17       strong superintendent and another one entity for

        18       negotiating only one contract for the 32

        19       schools.

        20                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, we agree

        21       on one, don't we, both of us.

        22                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Look, I want to

        23       thank you for answering my questions.  I still











                                                             
8549

         1       believe that this is such an important issue,

         2       one that we all of us do care about with

         3       tremendous implications for the public education

         4       system in the city of New York and, therefore, I

         5       truly believe that we should postpone making a

         6        -- a definite decision at this point and maybe

         7       when we come back in the fall and some refine

         8       ment of greater explanations or understanding of

         9       what you try to achieve and possibly you have

        10       new elements are extracted from the proposal

        11       would be best.  I really want to thank you,

        12       Senator Marchi.

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI: Well, thank you,

        14       Senator.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        16       Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just very

        18       briefly on the bill, Mr. President.  I'm just

        19       amazed and as we started the debate maybe at

        20       6:20 in the morning. Senator Marchi, I want to

        21       say I've got the greatest respect for you, but I

        22       don't -- I don't think -- I think that this bill

        23       or the manner in which it was presented adds to











                                                             
8550

         1       your laurels.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         3       Marchi.

         4                      SENATOR MARCHI:  May I ask a

         5       rhetorical question? Senator, I did not select

         6       the time or the circumstances.  Nevertheless,

         7       I'm grateful for the opportunity. We're here

         8       lawfully assembled.  We have the power of

         9       disposition.

        10                      I'm the oldest one in the house

        11       here, but I feel lucid enough to carry on a

        12       reasonable level of conversation, and I think

        13       we're all available to that process, Senator,

        14       especially yourself, because I know.  I don't

        15       underestimate your powers.  I think they're

        16       still lucid and clear.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        18       think, clearly, given your power of lucidity

        19       which I'm sure is good 24 hours a day, this is

        20       still not the time to do it, and I don't mean to

        21       in any way criticize you personally, but the

        22       whole system that we have is God awful.  We must

        23       be one of the worse legislatures in this











                                                             
8551

         1       country, the way we have acted in this session

         2       particularly.

         3                      I mean the city of New York has

         4       been crying to have its educational system,

         5       which is in shambles, addressed.  We've been

         6       here.  We've had a Marchi commission, although

         7       the Marchi Commission, as I understand it, or

         8       recommendations, bears very little resemblance

         9       to the bill that is before us, but fine. This is

        10       your proposal, put it forward.

        11                      But, my God, we had the time to

        12       do it, to discuss it, to have people consider

        13       it.  And to bring it out at this late hour, it's

        14       just -- it is really, as I said, it's just

        15       astounding.  I think we have lost all

        16       perspective.  Everything is done solely in a

        17       partisan, political manner; no real concern for

        18       the public interest.

        19                      Senator, certainly the interests

        20       of a million school children in the city of New

        21       York are not being served by taking up this bill

        22       at this time.  We know it's a one-house bill.

        23                      But, Senator, let me just say,











                                                             
8552

         1       just for a moment addressing the substance of

         2       the bill, I disagree with your approach.

         3       Senator, you, I think, are balkanizing the city

         4       of New York. We disagree on that.  You seem to

         5       give a lot of support to the centrifugal forces

         6       in New York and, of course, you started this

         7       idea of having boroughs secede from the city of

         8       New York.  This further moves the process of the

         9       city of New York being dismembered.  I think

        10       that's unfortunate.

        11                      I think you do create five

        12       bureaucracies where we have one.  I'm sorry that

        13       you put in provisions in this bill, such as the

        14       condom distribution requiring parental consent

        15       or at least the parents can say that condoms or

        16       other birth control devices could not be

        17       distributed.  I don't think that should be in

        18       this bill, although I know that's your

        19       viewpoint.

        20                      So, Senator -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Marchi.

        23                      SENATOR MARCHI:  On that specific











                                                             
8553

         1       subject.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         3                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Of course, the

         4       borough president is suggested instead of opting

         5       out, opting in.  You know, so that there are

         6       minor differences.  Agreement on the substance,

         7       but procedurally there are differences.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, let me

         9       just say I know that the borough president of

        10       Manhattan, who does support this approach,

        11       Senator, and I have great respect for her but I

        12       know that she is not in favor of that provision

        13       as to condoms.

        14                      I just say, Senator Marchi, and

        15       I'm sure that you tried throughout this session

        16       to have us address this issue, but certainly we

        17       need to deal with the governance of the school

        18       system but we don't need to deal with it -

        19       should not deal with it at 6:30 a.m. in the

        20       morning.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Galiber.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
8554

         1       President.  On this piece of legislation

         2       certainly I agree, just as I did on the last

         3       piece of legislation, that this is a horrible,

         4       horrible time to bring this legislation up, but

         5       there's a need for it.  Unfortunately, a

         6       decision was not made on this level like most

         7       decisions are made by some folk way out

         8       somewhere as to when this bill should, in fact,

         9       come out.

        10                      Let me be brief, I hope.

        11                      Our youngsters in our school

        12       system are not being educated.  Our school

        13       system has failed us, has failed us completely.

        14                      We had a commission called the

        15       Marchi Commission, after many, many years of

        16       watching deterioration in our school system

        17       losing generation after generation of our

        18       youngsters.

        19                      Senator Leichter, every now and

        20       then the Democrats get small victories.  They

        21       come once every ten years or so, maybe fifteen

        22       years.  In this instance, I wrote a minority

        23       report on the Marchi Commission, and they stuck











                                                             
8555

         1       in a minority report in the middle of it, and

         2       that minority report called for vitiating,

         3       getting rid of, 110 Livingston Street, and

         4       creating five borough boards.

         5                      And most of the philosophy of

         6       those who testified was consistent with that

         7       notion except they came to a different result in

         8       the end; and that is, that school-based

         9       management was important, whether you took the

        10       Rochester experience or the Chicago experience

        11       or the Dade County experience, all it really

        12       meant is that decision-making should be brought

        13       closer to the community with the teachers

        14       participating, and also the supervisors, the

        15       principals.  This is what we agreed on, or at

        16       least I felt.

        17                      Historically, the Ocean

        18       Hill-Brownsville experience came out as the

        19       result and a political decision was made -- pure

        20       political decision was made.  And what then did

        21       the unions do? And I happened to be around at

        22       the time; and Senator Paterson, David Paterson's

        23       dad, Charlie Rangel, and a few others; Dave











                                                             
8556

         1       Jaffe of Senator Marchi's staff, and Senator

         2       Marchi.  We explored this possibility of five

         3       boroughs, but it went down the drain because it

         4       would give too much control.

         5                      After the negotiations and the

         6       input of the unions, we had the present

         7       decentralization bill that we have today, and it

         8       didn't give power to the people then, and it

         9       didn't give the power in the proper places.  It

        10       was so bad that those of us who negotiated it at

        11       the time voted against it, and that "no" vote,

        12       as I've often said, was like -- and that was

        13       back in '72 or '69.  It was like vintage wine.

        14       Each year that "no" vote got better and better.

        15                      This is not a perfect bill.  I

        16       have some serious objections to some parts of

        17       this piece of legislation.  I believe that based

        18       on the theory of participation of parents in the

        19       community and in the school, as it stands now.

        20       One of the changes that they make in Senator

        21       Marchi's bill, they make a change where they are

        22       saying parents who are immigrants now can

        23       participate in the decision-making in the











                                                             
8557

         1       schools as long as they live in the community or

         2       have a child in that community.

         3                      In our rush to get rid of that

         4       horrible apportioned representation that there

         5       has been a change in it, and now we come up

         6       with, and rightly so, that the Constitution is

         7       thrown into it.  I disagree.  I don't think we

         8       should disenfranchise even people who are not

         9       franchised because our theory is that people who

        10       have children in the school have something to

        11       say in terms of how their children are

        12       scheduled.

        13                      This bill should have been out a

        14       long time ago, and we've talked about it on both

        15       sides of the building; but, again, the unions

        16       got involved.  And perhaps that's what you heard

        17       in your quiet little talk with the president,

        18       who is a fine person, who represents a group of

        19       very fine teachers.  The teachers in our school

        20       system, by and large, are excellent teachers who

        21       are not given the opportunity because of the

        22       bureaucracy involved.

        23                      110 Livingston Street -- if we











                                                             
8558

         1       were to take one factor of the downfall of our

         2       educational system in the city of New York, it's

         3       110 Livingston Street, an institution that has

         4       not held us in very good stead.

         5                      From the outset, in the very be

         6       ginning, if you will, of the funding process, we

         7       had to go with hat in hand to 110 Livingston

         8       Street begging for something to go back into our

         9       community.  Communities weren't treated fairly,

        10       and so, desperate through the years about change

        11       in our education system, I run into a collision

        12       course with the union on a year-to-year basis.

        13                      I have introduced bills for a

        14       voucher system.  They tell me, "Senator, if we

        15       have a voucher system, we're going to destroy

        16       the public school system."  Well, I don't think

        17       the public school system is doing so hot at the

        18       present time.

        19                      Put another piece of legislation

        20       in calling for choice, if you will, all because

        21       we're not educating our youngsters, and we have

        22       to keep that in mind.

        23                      Fact of the matter is, Senator,











                                                             
8559

         1       yes, this is a one-house bill, and it's a

         2       horrible time as we've said over and over

         3       again.  But the fact of the matter is that

         4       there's a one-house bill passed over here, and

         5       there is one over there, but for the first time

         6       in all the years that I have been here since

         7       1969, this is the first opportunity, long shot

         8       that it may be, that we'll have an opportunity

         9       to sit down at a conference table and come up

        10       with something which I think will be primarily

        11       beneficial to our children.

        12                      So the whole notion -- and the

        13       Marchi Commission with a fine bunch of

        14       commissioners really said that we have to bring

        15       the governance of our school system closer to

        16       our communities.  We have to get rid of the

        17       bureaucracy.  We have to change the funding

        18       process.  We have to equalize it, if you will.

        19                      I put another bill in one year to

        20       say if your reading scores in the district of

        21       Bronx County reached a certain low that would be

        22       the automatic trigger mechanism for direct

        23       funding from the state they would get because











                                                             
8560

         1       the education system has not dealt us a good

         2       hand.

         3                      We know in the city of New York

         4       that the formulas have been bad.  The Governor

         5       mentioned it in the State of the State message,

         6       that we had to change the formula for education,

         7       and he is right.  We are not getting our fair

         8       share.

         9                      If I had my druthers, of course,

        10       we'd have a different system.  My bill that I

        11       put in calls for five boroughs.  And so anxious

        12       am I to see this change that's going to take

        13       place that all the pleases that I would like to

        14       see are not in this legislation.  I would like

        15       more input from the mayor.  I would like to have

        16       one superintendent who would be hired and that

        17       superintendent would then hire all the

        18       principals and get some of the nonsense out.

        19       Can we eradicate all the bad things that happen?

        20       The answer is no.  So I'm saying that would be a

        21       step in the right direction.

        22                      So I'm saying, notwithstanding

        23       the hour, I want to congratulate Senator Marchi











                                                             
8561

         1       for using his influence to get this bill out,

         2       but you can tell the tugging, and you can tell

         3       how desperately people did not want this bill to

         4       come out, because finally -- and I say this for

         5       the record, but for the respect -- it's

         6       difficult to grasp this concept.  But for the

         7       respect for Senator Marchi, this bill would not

         8       be out here even at 6:00 o'clock in the morning

         9        -- even at 6:00 o'clock in the morning.  And

        10       I'm not sure -- that's a partial respect.  I

        11       wish they would give him a little more respect

        12       and had this airing two or three weeks ago when

        13       we were piddling around doing absolutely

        14       nothing, because so crucial is the education of

        15       our youngsters that we should not be doing this

        16       at night.

        17                      And I congratulate you, Senator

        18       Marchi.  I don't agree with all the things that

        19       are in this piece of legislation, especially

        20       that voting portion.  I know it's in the

        21       Constitution, and I know the reasons behind it,

        22       and I know it's not -- you have to be a

        23       registered voter.  You have to be a registered











                                                             
8562

         1       voter; you have to have -- I understand all

         2       that, but I'm willing to bend a little bit.  I'm

         3       willing to bend because we're not educating our

         4       youngsters, and this is certainly a step in the

         5       right direction.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         7       Padavan.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  I'd just like to take a brief moment

        10       to build on some of the things that have been

        11       said here in support of this legislation,

        12       particularly by Senator Marchi and some of the

        13       things pointed out by Senator Galiber in terms

        14       of the efficacy of an approach that, in many

        15       ways, is long overdue.

        16                      I would challenge anyone to bring

        17       in any management firm or group of individuals

        18       from any part of the world to New York City and

        19       have them take a very hard look, objectively, at

        20       our educational system and say to them, "Look,

        21       we have a system of a million kids, almost a

        22       thousand buildings spread through a very diverse

        23       city and it's managed by one place, by one











                                                             
8563

         1       chancellor, by one board of education.  What do

         2       you think?"

         3                      There is no doubt in my mind they

         4       would come up with something that would be very

         5       near to what Senator Marchi and those who worked

         6        -- and I had the pleasure of doing that -

         7       worked with him in coming up with this proposal.

         8                      It makes sense because, as

         9       Senator Galiber indicated, it brings the

        10       educational aspect of governance closer to those

        11       being educated and their parents.  And when you

        12       do that, you can't help but improve the system,

        13       just that alone.

        14                      But there are a number of things

        15       in this proposal that are reforms that are long

        16       overdue.  For instance, one of the common

        17       complaints is the fact that in May when we have

        18       our school board elections, very few people show

        19       up, 10 percent, whatever, and the level of

        20       participation is not what it could or should be.

        21                      And so the suggestion was made

        22       time and time again, "Have it on election day."

        23       And so, in this bill, Senator Marchi has done











                                                             
8564

         1       that, so that people will be voting for their

         2       community school board on election day, the day

         3       they are used to going to the polls and are

         4       voting for other things.

         5                      One of the other reforms

         6       suggested was this archaic, cumbersome, unwieldy

         7       methodology of counting the votes for community

         8       school board members. Takes a couple weeks to

         9       figure out who won, in terms of how you have to

        10       add up, and so on.  I don't even fully

        11       understand it, to be honest with you.  We're

        12       doing away with that.  We're doing away with

        13       that entirely.  People will vote for members,

        14       and those who get the most votes will win,

        15       period.  That's the way it should be.

        16                      You have read, even if you're not

        17       from the city of New York, from time to time

        18       about scandals in various community school

        19       districts of outright theft of resources, money,

        20       pianos, supplies, taking that money right out of

        21       the desks of our children, taking it away from

        22       them.  And part of what is contained in this

        23       proposal is the establishment of fiscal offices,











                                                             
8565

         1       people who have the responsibility of keeping a

         2       very sharp eye on that money, seeing that it's

         3       not only not stolen, but it's used to maximize

         4       its potential.  And dollars are hard to come by,

         5       particularly in the city of New York.  We've got

         6       to get the most for our buck.  And again, one of

         7       the reforms in this bill accomplishes that

         8       worthy goal and, well, I might add, some very

         9       serious criminal penalties about theft and

        10       misappropriation of funds within our school

        11       system.

        12                      The political representation is

        13       given due acknowledgement, the Mayor, the

        14       Borough President, the City Council, will all

        15       have opportunities in each of the boroughs to

        16       select and nominate members of those community

        17       school boards -- borough school boards.

        18                      In addition, the community school

        19       boards will have an opportunity to direct

        20       individuals to the borough boards, and so you

        21       will have an excellent combination of the

        22       political structure, citywide as well as the

        23       localized concerns and interests reflected by











                                                             
8566

         1       Borough Presidents and City Council members.  I

         2       think it's a good mix, and it's laid out very

         3       specifically in this proposal.

         4                      So when you put it all together,

         5       even with some of the things that you might -

         6       minor things, perhaps not so minor, things that

         7       you might not agree with, but in the broad brush

         8       it's a quantum leap forward in terms of the

         9       operation of the largest school district, the

        10       largest school system to be found anywhere in

        11       the world.

        12                      It's unfortunate that we're

        13       dealing with it here at 7:00 a.m. in the

        14       morning.  That's not our fault.  But at the same

        15       time we are dealing with it.  And compliment

        16       Senator Marchi on being lucid this morning as

        17       he's been lucid on this issue for the last

        18       twenty years or more as he's dealt with the

        19       issue of decentralization.  This is a natural

        20       evolution of what he began more than two decades

        21       ago, and it brings us to a point we should have

        22       been a while ago, but at least we're there now.

        23                      And, hopefully, at some future











                                                             
8567

         1       date we can reach the very point we want to get

         2       to and go over that goal line.  It will be a

         3       victory not just for -- not for us, really.  It

         4       will be a victory for the kids, children,

         5       parents, and the schools in the city of New

         6       York.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         8       Stavisky.

         9                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  All of us have

        10       profound regard for Senator Marchi and his

        11       contributions to education and to the city of

        12       New York over the years, and this piece of

        13       legislation is evidence of Senator Marchi's

        14       continuing desire to improve the system.

        15                      Unfortunately, its focus is on

        16       rearranging the furniture on the Titanic rather

        17       than a focus directed at the objective of a

        18       school system, pupil performance, teacher

        19       performance, the role of supervisors, the role

        20       of the policy boards, in trying to have the

        21       children succeed and not drop out of school and

        22       not be turned off, and that has to be the focal

        23       point of any attempt to improve the system.











                                                             
8568

         1                      A piece of legislation that would

         2       focus on pupil performance and on the

         3       performance of all of the other participants, I

         4       think, Senator Marchi, would perhaps be a more

         5       constructive way of addressing the issue.  What

         6       works in terms of improving pupil performance?

         7       What demonstrable studies indicate the

         8       methodologies that will accomplish the desired

         9       results?  Can we provide incentives for those

        10       schools, those teachers, those parents and

        11       policy boards that accomplish results that raise

        12       pupil performance, and that really ought to be

        13       the thrust of any attempt at trying to improve

        14       the system.

        15                      It is not the system that needs

        16       an education.  It is children.  I find that

        17       there are ingredients in this legislation.  I

        18       have a bill in the Senate Education Committee to

        19       provide for a November election every fourth

        20       year, when there are no major contests for

        21       president, governor, mayor or any other

        22       position.  And I agree that this provision here,

        23       if nothing else were done, if you took that











                                                             
8569

         1        ---forget my bill.  Take it and put it in as a

         2       discrete separate piece in order to improve

         3       parental involvement and public involvement in

         4       the community school board elections.

         5                      But you've got other things here,

         6       Senator Marchi, that do a disservice, in effect,

         7       to where education -- to the way education

         8       functions in the state of New York.

         9                      We have more than 700 school

        10       districts in the state.  And in all but five of

        11       them, as you pointed out, they are fiscally

        12       independent, where no mayor, no town official,

        13       no county official could in any way control the

        14       school system.  The schools are separate.  No

        15       local official could balance a budget by pulling

        16       out resources from the schools because the

        17       schools do get a large proportion of state aid.

        18       And some years ago, you remember, we had what

        19       was known as the Stavisky-Goodman Law designed

        20       to prevent that from happening unfairly.

        21                      But you have here things that

        22       ought not to be.  Education is not a municipal

        23       function.  It should not be a function of City











                                                             
8570

         1       Hall.  It should be the function of a school

         2       system with a board and a professional.  Call

         3       that professional a superintendent, call that

         4       professional a chancellor.  But in every one of

         5       the school systems in this state, a local board

         6       of education chooses its chancellor or

         7       superintendent without too much involvement with

         8       municipal government.

         9                      In all but five of the more than

        10       700 school districts, education is separate from

        11       municipal government.  We have here the

        12       abolition of the Central Board of Education.

        13       Fine.  You want to get rid of 110 Livingston

        14       Street? Be our guest.  But we also get rid of

        15       the superintendent who is the professional to

        16       hold the system together. Must we have a

        17       curriculum that is a battle within each borough

        18       of what should be included or what should not be

        19       included; or is it preferable to have curricula

        20       as well as personnel matters decided on a

        21       citywide level? Otherwise, you will be

        22       replicating and wasting money while they get

        23       involved in intraborough battles as to what











                                                             
8571

         1       should be taught and what should be not be

         2       taught.  An administrator pointed by the mayor

         3       makes this essentially a mayoral agency, and

         4       that should not be the way that any school

         5       system operates.

         6                      I would like to ask the members,

         7       and I wish all the members were here, to hear

         8       and to reflect on what you have proposed.  I

         9       would like to ask them whether they would like

        10       to have a mayor select the superintendent for

        11       their school district throughout the state of

        12       New York in the 700 districts where we don't

        13       have mayoral control or local official control

        14       over legislation, and I think most of the

        15       members here would agree that they would not

        16       want that type of intrusion.

        17                      You have the requirement here

        18       that the borough boards would have the power to

        19       appoint a borough superintendent, but only with

        20       the approval of the state Education

        21       Commissioner.  I would like to ask the

        22       legislators who represent other school

        23       districts, do they wish to give to the state











                                                             
8572

         1       Education Commissioner the power to decide who

         2       their local superintendent would be? They would

         3       laugh at us if we proposed that.  They would say

         4       absolutely not. We don't want the Commissioner

         5       of Education -- across the street here -

         6       deciding who our superintendent will be.  Same

         7       thing with the community school boards.

         8                      Now, the borough decides whether

         9       a community school board can hire its local

        10       superintendent, and again it's a confusion of

        11       roles.

        12                      Proportional representation is

        13       eliminated. Fine.  As you know, we did this

        14       because Dr. George Gallup, a very revered and

        15       decent man, said is that -- Hallett.  Hallett,

        16       not Gallup.  At this point we seem to be polling

        17       the clock.  But Dr. George Hallett, a very

        18       revered individual, the world's leading

        19       authority on proportional representation,

        20       convinced the Legislature that this would be a

        21       way that no one group would dominate the

        22       election of the school boards.

        23                      You would eliminate that system.











                                                             
8573

         1       I have no problem with it, and you would also

         2       propose a November election, and I think that

         3       makes eminent good sense.

         4                      But now you go into taking away,

         5       as Senator Galiber pointed out, something that

         6       involves parents who may not yet be citizens but

         7       whose children are going to schools.  You take

         8       away their right to participate as parent

         9       voters.  It's very difficult to take a power

        10       away once it has been given.  Many parents feel

        11       that is their link to the school system, and I'm

        12       not sure about that.

        13                      The change in the period of time

        14       in which charges may be brought against tenured

        15       teachers.  I dare say if someone did ask the

        16       representative of the teachers, the union for

        17       the teachers about this provision, I'd say you

        18       probably would get a resounding memo of

        19       opposition to that provision.

        20                      Finally, we have been spared thus

        21       far from the involvement in one of the issues

        22       that tore the school system apart, the

        23       distribution of condoms.  Suddenly, that appears











                                                             
8574

         1       in this bill, and now the New York State

         2       Legislature is involved in an issue that

         3       polarized the New York City school system.

         4                      I hope you will continue to work

         5       toward an improvement in the school system and

         6       particularly an improvement in the manner in

         7       which children are taught and what they learn.

         8       Focus on the inadequate financing from the state

         9       and from Washington of aid to the New York City

        10       school system.  Focus on the inequities in the

        11       formula, the state and federal aid formulas.

        12       Focus on how we can provide the resources to

        13       accomplish the things that I think every

        14       legislator wants for the children of his or her

        15       district.

        16                      But this, at this hour -- we may

        17       be continuing this long enough so that at 9:00

        18       o'clock in the morning is a good time for the

        19       Legislature to be in session, although not after

        20       the Legislature has been subject to this kind of

        21       schedule.

        22                      Bring it back. Bring it back in

        23       an absolutely different form.  Leave out the











                                                             
8575

         1       polarizing features of this piece of

         2       legislation, and I'm sure that you will have

         3       support.  Certain substantive changes but not

         4       necessarily in the way that this bill is drawn.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         6       last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 55.  This

         8       act shall take effect March 1, 1994.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        13       Montgomery to explain her vote.

        14                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.  I want to compliment Senator

        16       Marchi for his many years of work on this

        17       particular issue.  I am, however, going to vote

        18       against this bill, and one of the reasons why I

        19       am opposed to it is because I'm not clear where

        20       the final authority lies for the success or

        21       failure of the system.

        22                      And I, being a parent of a child

        23       in the school system, am very keenly aware there











                                                             
8576

         1       are some areas where there is incompetence.

         2       There is a very clear need for there to be

         3       someone who steps in at any given moment and is

         4       able to make a definitive decision on what is

         5       happening in a particular school, especially as

         6       it pertains to the success or the failure of

         7       that school vis-a-vis the principal, the

         8       teachers, the school board, community school

         9       board, and what have you.

        10                      We just passed legislation

        11       sponsored by Senator Padavan which establishes

        12       or at least attempts to establish accountability

        13       as it relates to the custodians in the system.

        14       I would like to ensure that at least when we

        15       look at school reform, there is as part of that

        16       reform a particular person, a commissioner, if

        17       it's the administrator, whatever the name of

        18       that person.  There has to be a person who is

        19       ultimately responsible and in charge of that

        20       system, and I don't get the sense that this

        21       legislation does that.

        22                      And so I am going to vote against

        23       this legislation not because I don't think that











                                                             
8577

         1       you're trying to do something about a system

         2       that is obviously not working, especially for

         3       children, but because I think it lacks the key

         4       ingredient to the ultimate successes of that

         5       system; and that is, someone who we all can look

         6       to -- not the board members and not to establish

         7       three additional layers.  We now have -- based

         8       on this proposal, we have the community school

         9       board, we now have the borough board, we now

        10       have the borough superintendent, and I'm not

        11       sure who is ultimately responsible. We now have

        12       the borough president involved.  And there are

        13       so many layers before you ever even get to who

        14       is accountable ultimately, and that does not

        15       seem to be the Commissioner of the state of New

        16       York necessarily.

        17                      And so I think that is a very

        18       specific weakness in this legislation in this

        19       attempt, and I urge my colleagues to vote it

        20       down in the spirit of us taking a very serious

        21       look at what will make a difference in the city

        22       of New York in that school system.

        23                      I don't believe this is what is











                                                             
8578

         1       going to turn it around altogether.  There are

         2       some parts of it that I certainly do appreciate

         3       you doing, but I think that that is missing.

         4                      And, lastly, we certainly do not

         5       want in any way to send a message, I don't

         6       believe, to the Board of Ed of the city of New

         7       York or any system in this state, a message that

         8       we are opposed -- the Legislature of the state

         9       of New York is opposed to an attempt to prevent

        10       the spread of AIDS among teens in particular, in

        11       our schools.  So when we put into statute a

        12       provision which sends that kind of signal

        13       because we are requiring this written parental

        14       consent for the distribution of condoms, I think

        15       that is absolutely -- based on every single

        16       medical expert in the world, that that is the

        17       wrong signal to send, that we do not approve of

        18       attempts to prevent the spread of AIDS.

        19                      So I am opposed to this

        20       legislation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Montgomery in the negative.

        23                      Announce the results.











                                                             
8579

         1                      SENATOR JONES:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         3       Jones -- sorry -- to explain her vote.

         4                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes.  To explain

         5       my vote.  There probably is no one here that

         6       cares more about kids and education than I do,

         7       and you certainly convinced me that major change

         8       is needed in the New York City school system,

         9       but I would not feel at all comfortable by

        10       accepting a plan that I really do not feel I

        11       know enough about or have had enough time to

        12       study.

        13                      So I would have to vote no on

        14       this bill, but I would certainly hope that those

        15       of you who are working on this issue will

        16       continue to do that, certainly for the good of

        17       the children and everyone involved in this New

        18       York City school system.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1685 are

        21       Senators Espada, Gold, Gonzalez, Hoffmann,

        22       Jones, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery,

        23       Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, Smith, Stavisky and











                                                             
8580

         1       Waldon.  Ayes 44, nays 14.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Call Calendar

         6       1580.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         8       Secretary will read Calendar 1580.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1580, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        11       Assembly Bill Number 8652, with a Senate Reprint

        12       Number of 21005A, an act to amend the Public

        13       Health Law, in relation to exempting miniatures

        14       from certain regulations.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        16       I move to accept the message of necessity which

        17       I believe is at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Message

        19       is at the desk.

        20                      All those in favor signify by

        21       saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye.")

        23                      Opposed, nay.











                                                             
8581

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      The message is accepted.

         3                      Senator Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

         5       would like to point out to the body that if they

         6       compare the original print reported out of

         7       committee and they compare this print, they

         8       don't look anything alike and the reason is

         9       because Senator Saland is a gentleman.  We had

        10       an intelligent discussion, at least from his

        11       point of view, and this bill is now a credit to

        12       the process.  I wish we had more of it.

        13                      Senator Saland, thank you.  I

        14       think you have done a wonderful thing, and I

        15       appreciate your cooperation.

        16                      Last section.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        18       last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8582

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       I would like to call an immediate meeting of the

         7       Rules Committee in Room 332.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         9       Immediate Rules Committee meeting in Room 332.

        10                      Senator Velella.

        11                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

        12       I move to amend Senate Bill Number 5518A by

        13       striking out the amendments made on June 24 and

        14       restoring it to its original Print Number 5518.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Without

        16       objection.

        17                      Senator Volker.

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        19       I wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number

        20       4242A, recalled from the Assembly which is now

        21       at the desk.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        23       Secretary will read.











                                                             
8583

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         2       Volker.  Senate Bill Number 4242A, an act to

         3       amend Chapter 68 of the Laws of 1968.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         5       is before the house.

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Now move to

         7       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

         8       passed and ask that the bill be restored to the

         9       order of third reading.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        11       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        13       reconsideration. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        16       is before the house.

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President, I

        18       now move to discharge from the Committee on

        19       Finance Assembly Print Number 6788A and

        20       substitute it for my identical bill.  The Senate

        21       bill on first passage was voted unanimously.  I

        22       now move that the substituted Assembly bill have

        23       its third reading at this time.











                                                             
8584

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         2       Substitution ordered.

         3                      Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Unanimous.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      (Whereupon, Lt. Governor Lundine

        13       was in the chair. )

        14                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

        16                      SENATOR COOK:  Could we take up

        17       395, please.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6 of the

        21       regular calendar, Calendar Number 395, by member

        22       of the Assembly Parment, Assembly Bill Number

        23       3819B, Agriculture and Markets Law.











                                                             
8585

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         2       section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

         8       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Cook.

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Could we now go to

        14       Supplemental Calendar Number 4 and do that

        15       controversial, please.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1686, substituted earlier, by the Assembly

        18       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8523-C,

        19       Public Health Law, in relation to the provision

        20       of ambulance service.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8586

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

         4                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, to

         5       explain my vote.

         6                      This bill was introduced to

         7       permit the Hasbollah Ambulance Service to

         8       operate its ambulance service across county

         9       lines exclusively to serve members of the

        10       Hasidic community in contravention of rules

        11       regarding areas of operation that must be

        12       observed by other ambulance services pursuant to

        13       their approved certificates of need.

        14                      This bill, if passed, would fly

        15       in the face of the consensus process whereby

        16       Article 30 and its subsequent technical

        17       amendments were laboriously crafted by all

        18       providers of EMS services in the state last

        19       year.  We really are faced with a Hobson's

        20       choice in the sense that those who seek this

        21       bill should have been involved in the Article 30

        22       process last year which was the subject of over

        23       a year of negotiations and perhaps they should











                                                             
8587

         1       have had a grandfathering or grandfather clause,

         2       but, unfortunately, that was not the case.

         3                      They were not included, and

         4       currently there is very, very strong opposition

         5       of many people in this state, the EMS people of

         6       the volunteer fire service, the fire commission

         7       ers of Nassau County, the New York State

         8       Association of Fire Chiefs, to name just a few.

         9                      I believe that this is a very,

        10       very difficult situation.  I would hope that, in

        11       the future, something could be worked out but,

        12       in view of the opposition of all of those

        13       members and in view of the current Article 30 of

        14       the Public Health Law, I'm constrained to vote

        15       in the negative.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        17       the negative on Calendar Number 1686 are

        18       Senators Hannon, Jones, Marino, Skelos,

        19       Stachowski and Tully.  Ayes 52, nays 6.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        21       passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1689, substituted earlier, by the Assembly











                                                             
8588

         1       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8846,

         2       amends Chapter of the Laws of 1993.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Galiber.

         8                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator Libous

         9       yield for a question?

        10                      Is this the same bill that we

        11       debated maybe six months ago, probably

        12       yesterday, but it seems like six months ago.

        13                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Senator Galiber,

        14       it seems like only six months ago.  Yesterday.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Only six

        16       months.

        17                      SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, it is.

        18                      SENATOR GALIBER:  And the amend

        19       ment on this does what?  This is the third time

        20       it's back before us.

        21                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Yes, it's

        22       actually changing the date to September 30th.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  O.K. Good.











                                                             
8589

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 3,

         3       Senators Galiber, Leichter and Ohrenstein

         4       recorded in the negative.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1691, Senator LaValle moves to discharge the

         9       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        10       8867 and substitute it for the identical Third

        11       Reading 1691.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        13       ordered.  There is a message of necessity at the

        14       desk.

        15                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

        16       move that we accept the message.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

        18       all those in favor say aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The ayes have it.  The motions

        23       agreed to.  The the message is accepted.











                                                             
8590

         1                      Last section.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What number?

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  1691.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 1692.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        12       high.  It will be laid aside.  That completes -

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

        14       could we stand at ease for a few moments.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

        16       stand at ease.

        17                      SENATOR COOK:  There will be

        18       momentarily a great wonderful surprise for us.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        20       Dollinger.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        22       President, could I have unanimous consent to be

        23       recorded in the negative on 1685, Mr. President?











                                                             
8591

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         2       objection, so ordered.

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford.

         5                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Like to

         6       announce an immediate meeting of the Committee

         7       on Finance in Room 332, please.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Finance Committee

         9       meeting, Room 332.

        10                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        11                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  May I have

        12       unanimous consent, Mr. President, to be recorded

        13       in the negative on Calendar Number 1686, Senate

        14       Print 5916-B please?

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        16       objection, it's so ordered.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Can I do a

        20       housekeeping matter, or we're not ready?

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Pardon?

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.











                                                             
8592

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  I just wanted

         2       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         3       on Calendar Number 1689.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         5       objection, so ordered.

         6                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Onorato.

         8                      SENATOR ONORATO:  I would also

         9       like unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        10       negative on Calendar Number 1689.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        12       objection, so ordered.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  May we return

        16       to reports of standing committees.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        18       read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

        20       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        21       following bills directly for third reading:

        22                      Senate Bill Number 1201, by

        23       Senator Ohrenstein, an act to amend the Tax Law;











                                                             
8593

         1                      2231, by Senator Velella, an act

         2       to amend the Insurance Law;

         3                      5518, by Senator Velella, an act

         4       to amend the Insurance Law;

         5                      5901-A, by Senator Jones,

         6       authorize the Commissioner of General Services

         7       to grant an easement;

         8                      5949-A, by Senator Dollinger,

         9       Commissioner of General Services to sell and

        10       convey state-owned lands;

        11                      6011, by the Committee on Rules,

        12       Private Housing Finance Law;

        13                      6156, by Senator Marchi,

        14       Navigation Law;

        15                      6207, by the Committee on Rules,

        16       an act to amend the Insurance Law;

        17                      6208, by Senator Johnson,

        18       Environmental Conservation Law;

        19                      6209, by Senator DeFrancisco,

        20       Executive Law;

        21                      6210, by the Committee on Rules,

        22       an act to amend the Tax Law;

        23                      6211, by the Committee on Rules,











                                                             
8594

         1       Education Law;

         2                      Assembly Bill Number 750-C, by

         3       member of the Assembly Bragman, create a Motor

         4       Carrier Advisory Council;

         5                      Assembly Bill Number 8528, by the

         6       Committee on Rules, Public Authorities Law;

         7                      Senate Bill Number 8602, by the

         8       committee so rules, an act to amend the

         9       Insurance Law;

        10                      Senate Bill Number 2591, by

        11       Senator Velella, an act to amend the Insurance

        12       Law.

        13                      All bills reported directly for

        14       third reading.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Third reading.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        17       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        18       following nominations:

        19                      Member of the Metropolitan

        20       Transportation Authority Barry Feinstein, of

        21       Clinton Corners;

        22                      Member of the Small Business

        23       Advisory Board, Harold H. Connor, of East











                                                             
8595

         1       Aurora;

         2                      Member of the St. Lawrence

         3       Eastern Ontario Commission, Louis J. Fabrizio of

         4       Fulton; Louis W. Kent, of Oswego; Betty McLean

         5       of Carthage, and Darrell W. Weston, of Wellesley

         6       Island;

         7                      Member of the New York State

         8       Bridge Authority, Philip F. Abitabile, of

         9       Hudson.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is

        11       on the confirmation of the nominees.  All those

        12       in favor say aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The ayes have it.  The nominees

        17       are confirmed.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       we will stand at ease for a few moments.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senate will stand

        21       at ease.

        22                      (The Senate stood at ease

        23       briefly.)











                                                             
8596

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Present.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         3       Mr. President, could we call up Calendar Number

         4       1700.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On Supplemental

         6       Calendar Number 5, on page 2, Calendar Number

         7       1700, Senator Marino moves to discharge the

         8       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         9       8869 and substitute it for the identical Third

        10       Reading 1700.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        12       I move -

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Could we have

        14       some order.  On the motion, all those in favor

        15       say aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        20       agreed to, and the message is accepted.

        21                      Last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8597

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Can we have

         8       non-controversial calendar on Calendar Number

         9       5.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        11       read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Supplemental

        13       Calendar Number 5, Calendar Number 1693, Senator

        14       Ohrenstein moves to discharge the Committee on

        15       Rules from Assembly Bill Number 2149 and

        16       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        17       1693.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        19       ordered.  Last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8598

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1694, Senator Velella moves to discharge the

         6       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         7       6000 and substitute it for the identical Third

         8       Reading 1694.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        10       ordered.  Last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1695, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number

        20       5518, an act to amend the Insurance Law.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
8599

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         5       passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1696, Senator Jones moves to discharge the

         8       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         9       6827 and substitute it for the identical Third

        10       Reading 1696.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        12       ordered.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President,

        18       explain my vote.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  O.K. Senator

        20       Pataki is recognized to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR PATAKI:  Mr. President,

        22       this bill and the next bill both concern the

        23       conveyance of interest in state lands to private











                                                             
8600

         1       or not-for-profit organizations.  I'm con

         2       strained to vote no because in neither bill is

         3       there a requirement that any consideration be

         4       paid and specifically no requirement that fair

         5       market value be paid.

         6                      I had a similar bill.  The

         7       Assembly insisted that my town have an emergency

         8       meeting to adopt a home rule message on a

         9       chapter amendment requiring that that transfer

        10       be for fair market value, notwithstanding the

        11       fact that the property would have been used for

        12       public park purposes.

        13                      I think it should be consistent

        14       policy; I think that policy should require that

        15       transfers of state land be for fair market

        16       value.  So, for that reason, I request to be

        17       recorded in the negative.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Results.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

        20       Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        22       passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
8601

         1       1697, Senator Dollinger moves to discharge the

         2       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         3       8566-A and substitute it for the identical Third

         4       Reading 1697.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         6       ordered.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        14       one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1698, Senator Hannon moves to discharge the

        19       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        20       1761 and substitute it for the identical Third

        21       Reading 1698.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        23       ordered.  Last section.











                                                             
8602

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         7       passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1699 -- Calendar Number 1699, by Senator Marchi,

        10       Senate Bill Number 6156, an act to amend the

        11       Navigation Law.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1701, Senator Johnson moves to discharge the

        22       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        23       8870 and substitute it for the identical Third











                                                             
8603

         1       Reading 1701.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a

         3       message at the desk.  Oh, substitution ordered.

         4       There is a message at the desk.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       I move we accept the message.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

         8       all those in favor, say aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        13       agreed to.  The message is accepted.  Last

        14       section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill -

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me.  Ayes

        22       57, nays one, Senator Sears recorded in the

        23       negative.











                                                             
8604

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1702, Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the

         5       Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number

         6       8512-B and substitute it for the identical Third

         7       Reading 1702.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         9       ordered.

        10                      There is a message at the desk.

        11       On Senator Present's motion, all those in favor

        12       say aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        17       agreed to.  The message is accepted.  Last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.











                                                             
8605

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1703, Senator Marino moves to discharge the

         5       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         6       8871 and substitute it for the identical Third

         7       Reading 1703.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

         9       ordered.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        11       I move we accept the motion, the message which

        12       is at the desk.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  On Senator

        14       Present's motion, all those in favor say aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        19       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        20                      Last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.











                                                             
8606

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.  Excuse

         3       me.  Ayes 57, nays one, Senator Sears recorded

         4       in the negative.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         6       passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1704, by member of the Assembly Bragman,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 750-C, create a Motor

        10       Carrier Advisory Council.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion,

        12       all those in favor say aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The ayes have it.  The motion is

        17       agreed to.  The message is accepted.

        18                      Last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays











                                                             
8607

         1       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1705, by the assembly Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 8528, Public Authorities

         7       Law.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        14       one, Senator Tully recorded in the negative.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        16       passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1706, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        19       Bill Number 6211, Education Law, to the reforms

        20       of boards of cooperative educational services.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is high

        22       and there is no message; so it will be laid

        23       aside.











                                                             
8608

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1707, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         3       Assembly Bill Number 8602, an act to amend the

         4       Insurance Law.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        12       passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1708, Senator Velella moves to discharge the

        15       Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

        16       5998 and substitute it for the identical Third

        17       Reading 1708.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitution

        19       ordered.  Last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
8609

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Goodman.

         6                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

         7       with respect to Calendar Number 1688, Senate

         8       6007, had I been present, I'd wish to be

         9       recorded in the affirmative.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The record will

        11       so indicate.

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Holland.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  With unanimous

        15       consent, I'd like to change my yea to a nay on

        16       1688.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Yea to nay on

        18       1688.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        20       objection, it's so ordered.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Senator

        22       Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
8610

         1       there being no further business, I move that we

         2       adjourn until Thursday, July 8th, at 8:30 a.m.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate stands

         4       adjourned.

         5                      (Whereupon at 8:29 a.m., the

         6       Senate adjourned.)

         7

         8

         9

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14

        15