Regular Session - January 19, 1994
107
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 January 19, 1994
11 4:30 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
20
21
22
23
108
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
3 will come to order.
4 All please rise for the Pledge of
5 Allegiance to the Flag.
6 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 In the absence of clergy, please
9 bow our heads for a moment of silence.
10 Reading of the Journal.
11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
12 Tuesday, January the 18th. The Senate met
13 pursuant to adjournment. Senator Spano in the
14 chair upon designation of the Temporary
15 President. The Journal of Monday, January 17,
16 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
17 adjourned.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing
19 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
20 read.
21 Presentation of petitions.
22 Messages from the Assembly.
23 Messages from the Governor.
109
1 Reports of standing committees.
2 The Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker
4 from the Committee on Codes reports the
5 following bills directly for third reading:
6 Senate Bill Number 233, by
7 Senator Tully and others, Criminal Procedure
8 Law.
9 234, by Senator Tully, an act to
10 amend the Penal Law.
11 888, by Senator Saland, an act to
12 amend the Penal Law.
13 1243A, by Senator Tully, an act
14 to amend the Penal Law.
15 1554, by Senator Saland, an act
16 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
17 2123, by Senator Lack, an act to
18 amend the Penal Law.
19 2372, by Senator Johnson, an act
20 to amend the Penal Law.
21 3059, by Senator Johnson, an act
22 to amend the Penal Law.
23 3237A, by Senator Marino and
110
1 others, Criminal Procedure Law.
2 3866, by Senator Volker, an act
3 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
4 4091, by Senator Volker, an act
5 to amend the Penal Law.
6 4891, by Senator Libous, an act
7 to amend the Penal Law.
8 6380, by Senator DiCarlo, an act
9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the
10 Penal Law.
11 And also, 4944, by Senator
12 Volker, an act to amend the Civil Rights Law,
13 reported with amendments.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
15 objection.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy from
17 the Committee on Transportation reports the
18 following bills directly for third reading:
19 Senate Bill Number 67, by Senator
20 Levy, in relation to requiring Department of
21 Motor Vehicles to inform the public with
22 problems associated with night-time driving.
23 Senate Bill Number 68, by Senator
111
1 Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
2 Law.
3 Senate Bill Number 70, by Senator
4 Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
5 Law.
6 610, by Senator LaValle, an act
7 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
8 2507, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
10 2640, by Senator Cook and others,
11 an act to amend the Transportation Law.
12 4434, by Senator Skelos, an act
13 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
14 4489, by Senator Libous, an act
15 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
16 Senate Bill Number 6300, by
17 Senator Bruno, an act to amend the Highway Law.
18 Senator Maltese from the
19 Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and
20 Correction, reports the following bills directly
21 for third reading:
22 Senate Bill Number 1156, by
23 Senator Skelos, an act to amend the Executive
112
1 Law and the Penal Law.
2 3799, by Senator Maltese, an act
3 to amend the Executive Law.
4 5321, by Senator Skelos, an act
5 to amend the Correction Law and the County Law.
6 All bills reported directly for
7 third reading.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
9 objection, third reading.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you
12 recognize Senator Daly, please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
14 Daly.
15 SENATOR DALY: Excuse me, Mr.
16 President, would you just give me a minute to
17 find out what I'm being recognized for.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 Daly, you have offered two resolutions at the
20 desk.
21 SENATOR DALY: I'd like to offer
22 the following resolutions and ask their
23 adoption.
113
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
2 Secretary will read the title of the resolution.
3 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
4 Resolution, by Senator Daly, paying tribute to
5 David L. Ulrich upon the occasion of his
6 designation for special honor by the Eastern
7 Niagara Chamber of Commerce.
8 Also, Legislative Resolution, by
9 Senator Daly, honoring Clinton J. Starke of
10 Lockport, New York, upon the occasion of his
11 designation as Citizen of the Year by the
12 Eastern Niagara Chamber of Commerce.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
14 question is on the resolutions. On the adoption
15 of the aforementioned resolutions, all those in
16 favor, signify by saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Those opposed, nay.
19 (There was no response.)
20 The resolutions are adopted.
21 Motions and resolutions.
22 Senator Present.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
114
1 On behalf of Senator Larkin, I offer the
2 following privileged resolution and ask for its
3 adoption.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
5 Secretary will read the title of the resolution.
6 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
7 Resolution, by Senator Larkin, commemorating the
8 100th anniversary of the Kingston Hospital.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
10 question occurs on the adoption of the
11 resolution. All those in favor, signify by
12 saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 Those opposed, nay.
15 (There was no response.)
16 The resolution is adopted.
17 Senator Cook.
18 SENATOR COOK: No, it's a
19 motion. Mr. President. Can I star a couple of
20 bills?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: By all
22 means.
23 SENATOR COOK: Senate Print -- I
115
1 haven't got the calendar number, I'm sorry.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: We will
3 be right back. Any other motions and
4 resolutions?
5 Senator Present.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take up
7 the noncontroversial calendar, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
9 Secretary will read noncontroversial calendar.
10 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
11 Calendar Number 9, by Senator Volker, Senate
12 Bill Number 406A, an act to amend the Criminal
13 Procedure Law, in relation to administering the
14 oath to a grand jury witness.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
17 aside.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Wait a minute.
19 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Never mind.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
116
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 12, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 1137A,
9 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and
10 Rules.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 13, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1313, an
23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
117
1 including the theft of dogs and cats.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 19, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4787, an
7 act to amend the Education Law.
8 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
10 aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 24, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
13 441C, an act to amend the Tax Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Local
15 fiscal impact note is at the desk.
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
118
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 26, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 2389,
4 State Administrative Procedure Act.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
14 is passed.
15 Senator Present, that completes
16 the noncontroversial calendar.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
18 Take up the controversial calendar, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
20 Secretary will read the controversial calendar.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
22 Calendar Number 13, by Senator Levy.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
119
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
2 aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 19, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4787, an
5 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
6 procedures for the submission of propositions.
7 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation,
8 please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Cook, an explanation has been asked for.
11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
12 This bill basically clarifies the law relative
13 to the manner in which voters may present
14 propositions to be considered at the district
15 election. It really wouldn't apply, I don't
16 believe, to the City of New York. It applies to
17 Upstate, to Central School Districts, et cetera.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
19 last section.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is the
21 proposition bill, just so I'm correct? This is
22 Number 19?
23 SENATOR COOK: That's correct.
120
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
2 understand -- Mr. President. Does this provide
3 for the use of an initiative process for the
4 propositions that go on the ballot?
5 And just so I understand it, Mr.
6 President, if the speaker would yield to another
7 question? Does this increase the scope of
8 propositions and initiatives that could be made
9 by residents of the school district to their
10 school board?
11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
12 Essentially, it clarifies. It possibly does
13 expand to some degree, but it's more a matter of
14 trying to make the law clear because, right now,
15 it's rather nebulous as to whether certain
16 things can be considered and what the procedure
17 is for doing it. It's a matter more of
18 clarifying the law than it is expanding it.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Excuse
20 me, Senator Cook.
21 Senator Dollinger, I would like
22 to please ask you to remove the sign from your
23 desk.
121
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President. I'd ask for an explanation as to why
3 I need to do that.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
5 Dollinger, according to Rule 3 of the Senate
6 Rules, the presiding officer shall preserve the
7 decorum and the order of the Senate chamber. In
8 the opinion of the presiding officer that sign
9 violates that rule.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: For purposes
11 so I understand it, Mr. President, could you
12 explain to me how that sign affects the decorum
13 of this chamber so I know and, therefore, can
14 make a judgment as to the chair's ruling with
15 respect to decorum?
16 I'm simply inquiring of the
17 President to tell me how this sign affects the
18 decorum of this chamber.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Dollinger, it's not the intention of the
21 presiding officer to get into a debate with you,
22 just to point out the fact that the rules do
23 require me to preserve the order and the decorum
122
1 of the chamber. We have ruled that that sign
2 does not fall in line with the rules of this
3 house and that it is the power of the presiding
4 officer to cause that sign to be removed; and if
5 you are not going to be remove it, we have to
6 cause it to be removed, sir.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
8 President. Again, may I just inquire about the
9 ruling of the chair. Is it the chair's ruling
10 that it's Article 3, Section 1, that the
11 presiding officer of the Senate shall preserve
12 order and decorum in the chamber? Is that the
13 section that the presiding officer -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: That is
15 correct, Senator Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any
17 other portion of the Senate rules in which the
18 chair is relying on in making this ruling?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: At this
20 point, Rule 3 seems pretty clear, Senator
21 Dollinger, and it's not necessary for us to go
22 through the rest of the rules of this house to
23 make this ruling. I have made the ruling.
123
1 You can if you wish appeal the
2 ruling of the chair, but that is your decision.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand,
4 Mr. President. I would appeal the ruling of the
5 chair.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
10 First of all, I have the greatest respect for
11 you. I don't always envy the job that you have,
12 and I certainly don't envy it now. We waited a
13 long time today to start session, and it was
14 explained to me why, and I have some sensitivity
15 to the reason why we were delayed, but I always
16 wonder why we take a situation and always find a
17 way to make it bigger than it is.
18 Senator Dollinger, as everybody
19 knows, has a certain commitment to a certain
20 issue, and that issue, assault weapons and
21 controls, is an important issue he believes;
22 and, as a matter of fact, if I read Senator
23 Marino properly a few days ago, I think he
124
1 thinks it's an important issue. Senator
2 Dollinger is committed to try to get us to deal
3 with that.
4 Now, I'm looking at something
5 which -- I'm not that good, but I would say
6 maybe 12 inches by 14 inches or something along
7 those lines. It's on Senator Dollinger's desk.
8 It's not hanging from the chandeliers. There
9 are no balloons attached to it. Most
10 respectfully, if I were the presiding officer, I
11 would take a yawn and go about my business and
12 let things go, but now it's as if Senator
13 Dollinger had paid off everybody to make an
14 issue out of it. It is silly. He has freedom
15 of speech in this country to be able to draw
16 attention to this very significant issue.
17 To start now to take a rule,
18 which gives you important power, Mr. President,
19 the power to maintain decorum in this chamber,
20 and to force my very respected colleagues on the
21 Republican side to vote that a 12 by 14 or 16
22 inch sign which says "Day 3" on it destroys the
23 order and decorum of this chamber and we're
125
1 going to now take our sergeant at arms and put
2 him through the degradation of removing a piece
3 of paper, I mean really belittles -- belittles
4 the dignity of the chamber. I mean it really
5 does.
6 And I would urge upon you, Mr.
7 President, that Senator Dollinger is going to
8 remain committed to this issue no matter what we
9 do, and Senator Dollinger is going to talk about
10 it, and the presence of that sign is nothing.
11 The issue is important. Gun control, assault
12 weapons.
13 Let's not get sidetracked and
14 have appeals and have slow roll calls and have a
15 war over a sign. Let's have negotiation and
16 deal with an issue, the banning of assault
17 weapons.
18 So I would urge, Mr. President,
19 that you rethink what we're doing with your
20 authority. God forbid there were a problem with
21 decorum or order in this chamber, I expect that
22 in your worthy hands this rule would be applied
23 and we will all feel protected, but let's not
126
1 diminish your role by forcing you and our
2 sergeant at arms to take war against a piece of
3 paper that's maybe 12 by 14 or 15 inches big.
4 That's not going to destroy the political
5 careers of anybody here. It's not going to
6 impede the processes of our chamber. I really
7 would ask you to reconsider so that we don't
8 have to appeal.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Cook.
11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. We
12 have a couple of choices, one which would be
13 that the sergeant at arms would be at his own
14 volition forced to make a decision relative to
15 that sign being removed, in which case he would
16 have a confrontation with a member or we would
17 have the house in its official capacity give an
18 instruction to the sergeant at arms which
19 clearly delineates what his responsibility and
20 authority is in a given case.
21 And I think you can understand
22 that the sergeant at arms is not in a position
23 to get into a debate with a member; that the
127
1 house, of necessity, needs to make an
2 instruction so that the sergeant at arms clearly
3 knows what his responsibility is.
4 The first year I was in this
5 house, we celebrated the reopening of this
6 chamber after it had been renovated and
7 redecorated and restored to something very close
8 to its original architecture, and it has been
9 incumbent upon us as members and individuals and
10 presiding officers to maintain the decorum and
11 the decor of this chamber so that each one of us
12 doesn't put up signs that are slogans for our
13 favorite political issue. Presumably, we could
14 have 61 signs around this room saying protect
15 the rights of gun owners, down with guns. We
16 could end up with this place looking like a
17 shopping mall with all kinds of things stuck all
18 over the walls. And, clearly, it is in the
19 interest of the decorum of this chamber that
20 that not happen.
21 And I think that rather than make
22 an issue over something like a sign that,
23 clearly, within the understanding of every
128
1 member in this house has been something we have
2 just not done through the years, that we ought
3 not to make an issue of starting a practice now
4 that will degrade the appearance of the house,
5 destroy the decorum of our proceeding; and if it
6 is necessary for us to support the ruling of the
7 chair, we'll certainly do so; but I would think
8 that perhaps out of courtesy and out of
9 understanding of the tradition of the house in
10 which he serves, Senator Dollinger might desire
11 to voluntarily remove the sign.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, may
13 I?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Cook, I
17 respect very much what you said and I listened
18 very much to what you said; and the fact of the
19 matter is that, unfortunately, we have waffled
20 in this chamber from time to time. There have
21 been times when somebody can hold up a chart.
22 There are times if it happens to be the wrong
23 member of a wrong party where you shouldn't hold
129
1 up a chart. There have been times when, as a
2 matter of fact, you have allowed Senator Velella
3 or myself to bring guns to the floor of this
4 chamber, and we've demonstrated -- Senator
5 Padavan once gave what was a very effective
6 demonstration on drug paraphernalia right on the
7 floor of this chamber. There was a historic
8 debate between the late Senator Thaler and the
9 late Senator Knorr where we had an art show
10 right on the floor of this chamber.
11 Now, Senator Cook, if it is the
12 desire of the Majority to make some rule about
13 this kind of thing, that's one thing; but I
14 would suggest that maybe you want to think about
15 that for a few days, and maybe by Monday you
16 will have another rule, but to say that under
17 the auspices of order and decorum -- the same
18 sentence, by the way, which talks about
19 disturbance and disorderly conduct and causing
20 the chamber to be cleared. I don't suggest that
21 anybody feels threatened by the sign and we're
22 going to ask the chamber to be cleared. I think
23 we're just getting this thing out of
130
1 proportion.
2 It is one sign. It is one day.
3 Senator Cook, I don't see the rafters filled
4 with signs. I have not been approached by other
5 members who say that they have instigated
6 Senator Dollinger to do this because they've got
7 to print the printing of their signs for
8 Monday. I don't see any of that as a threat.
9 And my suggestion, Mr. President,
10 is that at this point, if you believe it is
11 proper, withdraw the request. Why don't we
12 think about it? If you want to have a rule on
13 Monday that deals with any kind of
14 presentations, we can deal with it. But, right
15 now, it is a haphazard situation, and I think
16 Senator Dollinger -- whether I would have done
17 it, anybody else would have done it, is not an
18 issue. Senator Dollinger has a right to have
19 that small sign just as Senator Padavan had a
20 right to have his drug paraphernalia, other
21 people have had a right, when it's been judged
22 appropriate, to bring on this floor any number
23 of things.
131
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
4 President. I am mindful of the comments of
5 Senator Cook, and I am mindful of the tradition.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Point of
7 order.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Padavan.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Did not Senator
11 Dollinger challenge the ruling of the chair?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: That is
13 correct.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Therefore, is
15 not a vote on that challenge appropriate?
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
17 President, if I can, I believe Senator Cook got
18 up to address the issue.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Excuse me. I'm
20 addressing the chair.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Did not a
23 challenge of the ruling of the chair eminate
132
1 from the Senator?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: We have
3 been, Senator Padavan, somewhat lenient in
4 letting the members express their opinion. But
5 we would like to remind the members that this is
6 an issue that is not debatable. And, Senator
7 Dollinger, if you would like to make a very
8 quick statement and maybe bring this issue to
9 conclusion, we would like to do that.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will be
11 extremely brief, Mr. President.
12 I am respectful of Senator Cook's
13 comments. I'm respectful of this chamber. This
14 is an issue that I feel very strongly about. My
15 views are reflected in this sign. This is an
16 expression of my speech. Since I'm not going to
17 get the opportunity to debate the amendments
18 that I was going to tack onto the bill because
19 apparently the Senate Majority does not want
20 that debate to occur again, I did this in a very
21 restrained manner. I was simply going to put it
22 up when the issue was debated. I would take it
23 down when the issue was done. My intention is
133
1 to do it every day until there is an assault
2 weapon ban in this state.
3 With respect to timing, Mr.
4 President, I can appreciate that others may have
5 waived their constitutional rights when they
6 were elected to this body and came into this
7 chamber. I don't intend to do that. I intend
8 to assert them here. I believe this is not a
9 disruption of the decorum. I intend to take it
10 down when this debate is done, but I'm telling
11 you I will come back. It will be here. It is
12 carefully tailored to avoid disrespect for this
13 chamber, but this is an expression of my
14 constitutional rights, and I don't know about
15 the rest of you, but I didn't waive them when I
16 was elected in the 54th district and walked into
17 this chamber.
18 And my hope is that everyone over
19 there respects that rule that's higher than the
20 rules of this chamber, called the Constitution
21 of the United States, the Constitution of the
22 State of New York, will respect my right to do
23 this.
134
1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 I appeal the ruling of the chair.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
4 question is on the appeal of the ruling of the
5 chair.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Point of
7 order. I understand the ruling is whether this
8 sign needs to be removed. Is that correct? Or
9 has it been ruled out of order, the sign has
10 been ruled out of order?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: As the
12 presiding officer, Senator Dollinger, we have
13 ruled that the presence of that sign in the
14 chamber violates Section 1 of Rule 3, and we
15 have ruled. You have appealed that.
16 The question is on the appeal of
17 the ruling of the chair. A vote in the
18 affirmative upholds the ruling of the chair. A
19 vote in the negative does not.
20 All those in favor -
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President. My point of order on the ruling.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
135
1 Dollinger.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is the effect
3 of the ruling also to require the sergeant at
4 arms to remove the sign?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Yes,
6 sir.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
8 President. I believe that's unconstitutional.
9 I intend to go to court, if necessary, to prove
10 that it's unconstitutional.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
12 question is on the appeal of the decision of -
13 Senator Saland.
14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
15 President. I will be very brief because I
16 really don't want to prolong this charade.
17 I listened very carefully to
18 Senator Dollinger's comments and listened to him
19 sanctimoniously decry the question of
20 constitutionality and watched carefully as the
21 Senate Minority photographer captured in
22 celluloid, for whatever purpose the Senator may
23 have, his every movement so that this can be
136
1 made into an event.
2 We're not here to participate in
3 the bizarre. We're not here, basically, to set
4 up little displays on each and every one of our
5 desks.
6 If Senator Dollinger wishes to
7 pursue the issue, he has plenty of forums. Why
8 would he want to demean the house and really
9 demean everybody in this house? I understand
10 what party loyalty is all about. We engage in
11 it. You engage in it. And it's nice for you to
12 fall in ranks behind Senator Dollinger; but,
13 nonetheless, it's a travesty, and it's really a
14 cheap PR stunt.
15 Thank you.
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
17 if I may.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 Johnson.
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator
21 Dollinger addressed the question to the chair
22 which I think may have been answered -- may be
23 answered either way. He said, "Is it required
137
1 that the sergeant at arms remove the sign?" And
2 I think you answered yes. That may be correct,
3 but I think it's also permissible for him to
4 remove it himself and avoid the confrontation if
5 he chooses to do that. Is that not correct?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: If the
7 sign is removed, then he will no longer be in
8 violation of Rule 3 of the house, Senator
9 Johnson, Section 1.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I decline to
11 do that.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Okay.
13 The question is on the appeal of the decision of
14 the chair. All those in favor, signify by
15 saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (Response of "Nay.")
19 The rule of the chair is that the
20 affirmatives have it, and we have upheld the
21 ruling of the chair.
22 We would then instruct the
23 sergeant at arms to please remove that sign from
138
1 Senator Dollinger's desk.
2 (Whereupon, the sign was
3 removed.)
4 Senator Present, we're ready to
5 continue the business of the house.
6 Senator Cook, you did have the
7 floor, sir.
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I
9 was asking for a couple of bills to be starred,
10 Bills Number 18 and 21. Oh, we never finished
11 the bill?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Excuse
13 me, Senator Cook. One second. Stand at ease
14 one second.
15 SENATOR COOK: Last section.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: We are
17 currently debating Calendar 19, Bill 4787, which
18 is before the house.
19 Read the last section.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this the
21 one on the proposition, since that issue was
22 raised in the middle of the -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
139
1 Dollinger, we are on Calendar 19.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I just
3 ask one other question to the -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Excuse
5 me, Senator Dollinger. Do you wish to be
6 recognized?
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator
8 Cook yield to a question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Cook, will you yield?
11 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Dollinger.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My
15 understanding that this will create initiative
16 and referendum in school districts?
17 SENATOR COOK: It doesn't
18 generally create it. Mr. President. The bill
19 doesn't generally create anything. It basically
20 reorganizes a number of sections of law which
21 are in various places at the present time, puts
22 them all into a coherent -- one coherent section
23 so that anyone who wishes to make reference to
140
1 it will be able to find it and read it and
2 hopefully understand it and apply it uniformly.
3 There have been court cases and controversies
4 relative to various sections which don't seem to
5 conform to each other, and this is simply an
6 effort to make conformity.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Dollinger.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
10 President. Again, will Senator Cook yield to a
11 question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Cook, will you yield to another question?
14 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Cook yields.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
18 Senator, I'm just trying to find out this. This
19 doesn't contain any limitation. As I read this
20 bill, it doesn't contain a limitation on the
21 propositions that could be raised through the
22 initiative process that's talked about here.
23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I
141
1 believe that's the case. It doesn't make any -
2 it doesn't add or subtract anything from the
3 existing law. Anything that currently could be
4 initiated by a petition can continue to be, and
5 anything that was not previously able to be
6 presented by petition cannot be. So it doesn't
7 change anything except to make it clear when
8 somebody reads the law as to exactly what the
9 provisions are.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Dollinger.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator
15 Cook will just yield -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
17 Cook, will you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Cook yields.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On page 4 of
22 the bill, line 33, 34 -- again, I apologize,
23 Senator Cook, because I didn't raise this before
142
1 with you. But it says, Section E, "That the
2 proposition has been defeated by the voters
3 during the current school years."
4 SENATOR COOK: M-m h-m-m.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Tell me what
6 that means, why the term is "years" rather than
7 year?
8 SENATOR COOK: Simply because a
9 school year extends over two calendar years.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So
11 it's during the current school -
12 Mr. President, on the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
14 Dollinger on the bill.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
16 President. Let me first apologize to my
17 colleagues if I disrupted the decorum of this
18 house. I don't believe I did. I don't see any
19 disruption of the decorum of this house. I
20 think it was restored instantaneously whatever
21 disruption there was, and I can't understand,
22 frankly, why that sign was so disruptive. I
23 intend to pursue my own rights in that regard,
143
1 Mr. President.
2 But on this bill, I think this is
3 a good bill. I think it takes us a step closer
4 to the concept of initiative and referendum. I
5 have supported it in this state. There are
6 bills in this state. My hope is that the other
7 side of the aisle have recognized that
8 initiative and referendum is a good thing in
9 school districts would also recognize that it
10 would be a good thing for this state to have,
11 and my hope is that a number of bills that deal
12 with initiative and referendum in New York will
13 be produced during this session and that this
14 session will act in a substantive way to bring
15 initiative and referendum throughout the state
16 and not just in school districts.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
20 act shall take effect on the first day of
21 September.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
23 roll.
144
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
4 is passed.
5 Senator Present, that concludes
6 the controversial calendar.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
8 In behalf of Senator Marino, I hand up the
9 following committee assignments and ask that be
10 filed at the desk.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: They
12 will be filed in the Journal. Secretary has the
13 list. They will be filed in the Journal,
14 Senator Present.
15 THE SECRETARY: Also, by Senator
16 Marino, I hereby appoint Senator Galiber ranking
17 member of the Senate Finance Committee.
18 (Applause.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: That
20 will also be filed in the Journal.
21 Senator Cook.
22 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
23 Could I star Calendar Numbers -- yep, I lost
145
1 them again -- 18 and 21, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Calendar
3 Numbers 18 and 21 will be starred at the request
4 of the sponsor.
5 Senator Present.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
7 There being no further business, I move that we
8 adjourn until Monday, January 24, at 3:00 p.m.,
9 intervening days to be legislative days.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
11 will stand adjourned until Monday.
12 (Whereupon, at 5:02 p.m., Senate
13 adjourned.)
14
15
16
17
18
19