Regular Session - February 7, 1994
460
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 February 7, 1994
11 3:33 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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461
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
3 Senate will come to order. All please rise for
4 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
5 (The assemblage repeated the
6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Prayer
8 today, we will hear from the Reverend Peter
9 Young, Blessed Sacrament Church, Bolton Landing.
10 FATHER YOUNG: Let us pray.
11 Almighty and eternal God, may
12 Your grace enkindle in all of us a love for the
13 many unfortunate people whom poverty and misery
14 reduce to a condition of life unworthy of a
15 human being.
16 Arouse in the hearts of all of
17 those who call You Father, a hunger and a thurst
18 for social justice and for eternal charity in
19 deeds and in truth. Grant, O Lord, our senators
20 the opportunity to be leaders for the peace and
21 the peace of our country and for the peace of
22 all of those that live in this great state of
23 New York. Amen.
462
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Thank
2 you.
3 Reading of the Journal.
4 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
5 Friday, February 4th, the Senate met pursuant to
6 adjournment, Senator Farley in the chair upon
7 designation of the Temporary President. The
8 Journal of Thursday, February 3rd, was read and
9 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing
11 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
12 read.
13 Messages from the Assembly.
14 Messages from the Governor.
15 Reports of standing committees.
16 Communications.
17 Motions and resolutions.
18 Senator Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
20 President. I would like to commit my bill,
21 S-6525, Calendar Number 101, to the Senate Banks
22 Committee.
23 THE SECRETARY: Without
463
1 objection.
2 SENATOR FARLEY: Also, on behalf
3 of Senator Maltese, Mr. President, I would like
4 to amend on page 8, Calendar Number 122, Senate
5 Print 1936, and I would ask that bill retain its
6 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 Also, on behalf of Senator
8 Hannon, on page 8, I offer the follow amendments
9 to Calendar Number 126, Senate Print 281, and I
10 ask that that bill retain its place.
11 On behalf of Senator Libous, I
12 move that the following bill be discharged from
13 its respective committee and be recommitted with
14 instructions to strike the enacting clause:
15 Senate Print 5812.
16 On behalf of Senator Kuhl, I move
17 that the following bills be discharged from
18 their respective committees and be recommitted
19 with instructions to strike the enacting
20 clause: Senate Print 536, Senate Print 3282-B
21 and Senate Print 5425.
22 THE SECRETARY: Without
23 objection.
464
1 Senator Cook.
2 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I
3 would like to retain my dominance in the starred
4 calendar by adding 114 to it, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Calendar
6 Number 114, starred at the request of the
7 sponsor. Any other motions or resolutions?
8 Senator Holland.
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr.
10 President. Can you star Calendar 116, Senate
11 Bill 6523, please?
12 THE SECRETARY: On 116, star at
13 the request of the sponsor.
14 Any other -- any other
15 housekeeping, motions, resolutions?
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 can we take up the non-controversial calendar,
19 please?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
21 Secretary will read the non-controversial
22 calendar.
23 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
465
1 Calendar Number 13, by Senator Levy -
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 37, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2640-A,
7 an act to amend the Transportation Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 41, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 233, an
20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
466
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 59, by member of the Assemblyman Grannis,
10 Assembly Bill Number 6289-B, an act to amend the
11 the Insurance Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 73, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 324-A,
467
1 an act in relation to authorizing the Department
2 of Transportation to survey areas of the state.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 76, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
15 1605-A, an act to amend the Public Health Law
16 and the Correction Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
468
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 80, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
6 2802-A, an act to amend the Education Law, in
7 relation to efficiency study grants.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 85, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
20 6183-A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
21 Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
23 last section.
469
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 88, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 191, an
11 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
13 last section.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 91, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
19 2999-A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
20 Law, in relation to vehicle inspections.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
470
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 92, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3026-A,
10 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 103, by Senator Stafford.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
471
1 aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 113, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
4 4237-A, state aid to the North Warren Central
5 School District.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Local
7 fiscal impact note at the desk. Lay it aside.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Who laid it
9 aside?
10 (There was no response.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 115, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6042,
13 Education Law, in relation to calculation of
14 approved operating expense.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Local
16 fiscal impact note's at the desk. Read the last
17 section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
472
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 117, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6551,
5 to amend Chapter 735 of the Laws of 1992,
6 amending the Public Health Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 118, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
19 245-A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
21 last section. Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
473
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 119, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2754,
9 an act to amend the Correction Law and the
10 Civil -
11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
13 aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 120, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number
16 379...
17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
19 aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 121, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
22 442, Real Property Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
474
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 123, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 2670,
12 Real Property Law, in relation to the recording
13 of maps.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
23 is passed.
475
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 124 -
3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 125, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 219,
8 an act to amend the County Law, in relation to
9 county office hours of work.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- ayes 44,
18 nays 1, Senator Stachowski recorded in the
19 negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 128, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 371,
476
1 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
11 is passed.
12 Senator Velella.
13 SENATOR VELELLA: I would like to
14 offer today on the Calendar Number 59 that just
15 passed the house, I'd ask that -- I make a
16 motion that the vote on that bill be
17 reconsidered.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
19 Secretary will call the roll on Calendar 59.
20 (The Secretary called the roll on
21 reconsideration.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
477
1 is before the house.
2 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay it aside,
3 please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 129, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 379,
8 an act to amend the General Municipal Law and
9 the State Finance Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 130, by Senator Stafford -
22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
478
1 aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 131, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 1153,
4 Real Property Tax Law, in relation to certain
5 state lands in Orange County.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 132, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number
18 1428, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
479
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 133, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 2449,
8 an act to amend the County Law, in relation to
9 investigation of death by coroners in certain
10 counties.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 135, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number
23 2537, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
480
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 136, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2702,
13 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
23 is passed.
481
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 137, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3180,
3 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 138, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3412,
16 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
482
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 139, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3867-A,
6 an act to amend the County Law, in relation to
7 appointment of deputies.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 1.
16 Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 140, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 4066,
21 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
23 last section.
483
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 142, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6327,
11 General Municipal Law, in relation to Life Care
12 communities.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
15 aside.
16 Senator Present, that completes
17 the non-controversial calendar.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 can we take up the controversial calendar?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
21 Secretary will read the controversial calendar.
22 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
23 Calendar Number 13, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill
484
1 Number 1313, an act to amend the Penal Law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
7 Calendar Number 59, by member of the Assembly
8 Grannis, Assembly Bill 6289-B.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 88, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 191, an
15 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
19 aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 103, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
22 6384, an act to amend the Tax Law.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
485
1 temporarily.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
3 aside temporarily.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 113, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
6 4237-A, relating to state aid to the North
7 Warren Central School District.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
9 Explanation. Are you going -- for this bill,
10 Senator Farley?
11 Senator Present, 113, we'll lay
12 it aside temporarily.
13 Senator Farley.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: Could I be
15 recorded in the negative on 139? No, wait a
16 minute -- is that the right number? Yeah, 139.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
18 objection.
19 Senator Holland.
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Can I have
21 unanimous consent? I would also like to be
22 recorded in the negative on 139, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
486
1 objection.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 119, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2754,
4 an act to amend the Correction Law and the Civil
5 Practice Law and Rules.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
12 Explanation has been asked for on Calendar 119.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
14 temporarily.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
16 aside temporarily.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 120, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number
19 3797, Executive Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
487
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
6 is passed.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 can we return to Calendar 119, please?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Calendar
12 119. Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 119, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2754,
15 an act to amend the Correction Law and the Civil
16 Practice Law and Rules.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
19 Explanation has been asked for.
20 Senator Cook.
21 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
22 this bill basically creates a situation wherein
23 a prison inmate who receives a college education
488
1 while incarcerated in a state facility, that the
2 -- this would constitute a college loan. In
3 effect, that upon release from the prison, there
4 will be an obligation to repay the cost of
5 that. This is an effort to equate that -- that
6 educational assistance which the prisoner
7 receives with the kind of financial aid which
8 most students receive who have not been
9 incarcerated, who, in fact -- who, in fact, are
10 obligated, in most cases, to repay the portion
11 of a college education that they've received
12 assistance from -- from the public, and I think
13 it's only reasonable to establish this kind of
14 equity and, therefore, I urge the bill be
15 passed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read -
17 Senator Dollinger.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would the
19 sponsor yield to a question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
21 Cook, will you yield to a question?
22 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
489
1 President, Senator Cook, how is this bill going
2 to work? I know I asked this question, I
3 believe, last year and I can't quite remember
4 the answer. How is the bill going to work?
5 Will there be a promissory note signed at the
6 time the person enrolls? How are they going to
7 pay for this?
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I
9 think Senator Dollinger has been very
10 perceptive. That's precisely what would
11 happen. In exchange for the benefit which they
12 would be receiving, the prisoner would be
13 obligated to take on a contractual obligation to
14 repay the state of New York for the cost of the
15 education.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr.
17 President, if Senator Cook would yield to one
18 other question.
19 SENATOR COOK: Sure.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will there be
21 any security furnished by this inmate for the
22 repayment of this debt?
23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
490
1 obviously there's no more security than there is
2 for any other student. It is a student loan.
3 It's an obligation upon the -- whatever assets
4 the individual would -- would possess, and it
5 would have the same collection procedures as
6 with any other college loan.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
8 President, just one other question. Senator
9 Cook, do you know how many people would be
10 affected by this amendment, how many inmates we
11 will now have as debtors to the state of New
12 York, make the inmates into debtors if they want
13 to get an education? Do we know how many it
14 will affect?
15 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, at
16 one time I thought I had this in my notes, but I
17 don't have the precise number. Let me indicate
18 -- and it's not a large number of people
19 relative to the prison population. We're not
20 talking here about a great hit upon the state
21 treasury in terms of dollars and cents. We are
22 concerned with the principle, and that is a
23 principle that there's a lot of perception on
491
1 the part of a lot of college students and their
2 parents in this state who are struggling with
3 the cost of a college education, who are going
4 through a great effort and sacrifice to make
5 sure that their students receive that kind of an
6 education, and to then find that the state of
7 New York provides this education absolutely free
8 and with no obligation whatsoever of any
9 participation or repayment on the part of a
10 prison inmate, is something that infuriates the
11 people of this state. It is something that is,
12 in my mind, highly inappropriate, and I think
13 that the time has come for us to at least go to
14 this token.
15 And remember that these are
16 people who are already receiving free room and
17 board, so they're not having to pay that part of
18 the education. All they're paying back is the
19 tuition portion of it, which is not even a major
20 part of the cost of college attendance.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, on the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
492
1 Dollinger, on the bill.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
3 President, I voted against this measure last
4 year. I'm going to vote again -- against it
5 again this year. I understand Senator Cook's
6 perspective and I understand the disparity,
7 perhaps, between parents who are out paying for
8 college educations, as I hope I will be in the
9 next couple of years when my son hits college,
10 but it seems to me that to suggest that they're
11 getting free room and board while they're in the
12 state penal institutions and correctional
13 institutions is a little bit of a stretch.
14 And while I agree with the
15 concept that maybe there ought to be some form
16 of payment, it seems to me we're taking people
17 who are going to get out of jail, they're not
18 going to have any assets, they're not going to
19 have the ability to pay back, they're not going
20 to settle in to $25,000-a-year jobs from which
21 they'll have money available to pay us back.
22 What we're going to really turn New York State
23 into is a huge collection agency as we will
493
1 follow these people around in the parole system
2 demanding that they pay up whatever the sum is
3 for their college education.
4 I submit, Mr. President, that
5 it's a better approach to try to give them as
6 much education as possible so, when they get out
7 of prison, they actually have the ability to
8 start a new life and they're not saddled with
9 significant debts which accrued during that
10 period which they got free room and board from
11 the state of New York but, of course, couldn't
12 decide that they would leave the four walls in
13 which they were incarcerated.
14 So I appreciate the sponsor's
15 initiative in raising this issue, but it seems
16 to me this has a quagmire of problems that would
17 be created. We will turn our inmates into
18 debtors to the state of New York and the process
19 of doing it is complicated, and, frankly, I
20 think it starts from the wrong premise, that
21 suggesting that this is something that we're
22 giving away for free and the only benefit in the
23 process is to the inmate. I think there's a
494
1 benefit for society as well, by putting these
2 individuals in a position where they're better
3 educated so when they get out they can start a
4 new life and hopefully, a constructive and
5 productive one in this society.
6 I'll vote no, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Nozzolio.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
10 on the bill. Mr. President, my colleagues, if
11 there is one expenditure that I had to pick out
12 of all those paid for by the taxpayers of this
13 state that shows how New York is on the wrong
14 track and in the wrong direction, it's the
15 expenditure of paying for free college education
16 for prison inmates.
17 My colleague points out that
18 prison should be a time when there is
19 instruction and rehabilitation and as part of
20 rehab', education takes place. I don't
21 necessarily argue with that, but what I do argue
22 with is the fact that there are lifers in this
23 state getting two and three Master's degrees at
495
1 taxpayers' expense, that there are prison
2 inmates who are taught how to be philosophy
3 majors. They're not taught how to have a skill
4 and get a job once out of prison. If a Regents
5 scholarship-qualified student in this state who
6 plays by the rules, who studies hard, who works
7 hard, who achieves academic excellence, is not
8 afforded financial assistance, yet we have that
9 same student could go down to any main street
10 and throw a brick through a window and harm
11 someone and maybe rob someone and be sent to
12 state prison and receive assistance for their
13 higher education. That incongruity rankles me.
14 I don't believe this bill goes
15 far enough, frankly. I would like to see not
16 just the college course paid for over time, I
17 would like to see until the day -- I would like
18 to see the course eliminated until the day that
19 every college student in this state receives
20 sufficient tuition assistance, receives Regents
21 scholarships once again and is secure in the
22 fact of knowing that if they qualify for
23 college, that this state will help them out in
496
1 being an educated student in New York.
2 I would like to see this bill
3 passed, though, because I believe it is a small
4 step in the right direction, a direction that
5 should lead to productivity, and that should not
6 send a signal to our citizens that we care more
7 about educating those who broke the law than
8 educating those who are working hard to be
9 productive citizens.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Waldon.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
14 President. Would the sponsor of the bill yield
15 to a question or two, please?
16 SENATOR COOK: Yes, Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Sponsor
19 will yield.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Cook,
21 how many people are in prison in this state at
22 this moment?
23 SENATOR COOK: I'm told about
497
1 65,000.
2 SENATOR WALDON: And how many of
3 those are, in fact, attending colleges
4 throughout the penal system?
5 SENATOR COOK: Senator, as I -
6 Mr. President, as I indicated, I don't have
7 those precise numbers here and I apologize for
8 that. It would be a matter of -- I believe, of
9 a few hundred. I don't believe it's a major
10 proportion of the prison population.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Do you have any
12 data which speaks to those who actually attend
13 college and complete, how many of those persons
14 do not return to prison upon their departure
15 from prison?
16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President -
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 Cook.
19 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
20 it's very interesting to make those
21 correlations, because I'm not so sure that you
22 can -- you can equate one -- one thing to the
23 other. It may be that the individual who comes
498
1 out of prison with a -- with a college degree is
2 the individual who is less apt to return to
3 prison but, at the same time, I think you have
4 to admit that that is a value for that person,
5 and the part of the rehabilitation process ought
6 to be for that individual to accept the
7 responsibilities of citizenship and to pay back
8 to society the value that they have received.
9 So, I assume that you are making
10 and perhaps you have in hand, some statistics to
11 indicate -- and I guess I would indicate that
12 probably, on the surface, these people would be
13 less apt to go back to prison than other persons
14 who are less educated, and there may be a lot of
15 reasons for that as well, but I don't think -- I
16 think that doesn't remove the core concept here,
17 which is that there is a value received in this
18 -- in this college -- a degree value, if the
19 person were not a prison inmate, that would have
20 to be repaid -- and we're simply indicating here
21 that they ought to be on an equal footing.
22 SENATOR WALDON: May I ask
23 another question or two, Mr. President?
499
1 Senator Cook, do you have any
2 information as to the number of people of those
3 incarcerated who are, in fact, illiterate or
4 only marginally literate?
5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President -
6 Mr. President -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Cook.
9 SENATOR COOK: That number is
10 substantial, and please note that this bill does
11 not apply to that group. This does not apply to
12 primary, secondary education, remedial
13 education, literacy education. It does not
14 apply to those things that under our
15 Constitution every citizen is entitled to, which
16 is a free public education from kindergarten
17 through grade 12. It does not apply to that.
18 It does not apply to those people whom you've
19 mentioned.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
21 much, Senator. I understood that.
22 Mr. President, if I may continue
23 on the bill.
500
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Waldon, on the bill.
3 SENATOR WALDON: I understood
4 that, Senator Cook, and I asked the question for
5 a purpose. I believe there is a benefit to
6 society in allowing these people to complete
7 their education, their higher education. It is
8 my belief, and I'm sure that once you find the
9 data it would correlate with the fact that those
10 who complete college and return to society have
11 a greater chance of never returning to prison
12 than those who are not given that opportunity.
13 When you've been inside the
14 prisons, as I'm sure you have, you can see the
15 devastation in the face of those -- and faces of
16 those who are incarcerated, and sometimes it is
17 better for us as a society outside of the
18 prisons to hold some hope out for those who are
19 in, and I'm not getting into the bottom line of
20 why they got there, be it drugs or violent crime
21 or whatever. What I'm really concerned about is
22 giving someone who may have made a mistake in
23 life an opportunity to educate him or herself,
501
1 to, in fact, become potentially a good citizen
2 upon leaving the prison system and become a
3 productive citizen.
4 The bill doesn't address -- as I
5 recall it, and correct me if it does -- when
6 they will begin their payments. Do they begin
7 their payments while they're being transitioned
8 back to society, six months or -- many of them
9 in that period of time will still be in one of
10 the transitioning places, trying to get a job or
11 get back into society. Their families may not
12 be available to them, so six months can be a
13 tremendous encumbrance. I think it is being, in
14 my opinion, pound -- penny wise and pound
15 foolish.
16 For the few dollars that it would
17 cost to educate these people compared to what it
18 costs to build a prison cell, what it costs to
19 maintain them with correction officers, it is a
20 drop in the bucket in terms of the financial
21 side, but it is a tremendous sum in terms of the
22 benefit side and, again, I must vote in the
23 negative on this bill because I don't think it
502
1 is in our best interests as a society to take
2 away hope of those who may at this time need
3 hope to become more productive citizens.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 DeFrancisco.
7 SENATOR DE FRANCISCO: I don't
8 understand all of this. It is just the most
9 amazing debate I have heard since I have been in
10 the Senate.
11 You have a situation where all
12 that's being asked for by this bill is that
13 those who obtain a college education in prison
14 get it under the same rules as those who are out
15 of prison. There isn't one Senator on this side
16 of the aisle who said anything about depriving
17 an inmate of the opportunity to better him or
18 herself, of depriving an inmate of the
19 opportunity to obtain an education. All that's
20 being said is that, if you choose to avail
21 yourself of that opportunity, you do like
22 everybody else does that's on the outside; you
23 sign a piece of paper saying that you'll pay it
503
1 back. Now, how that is so abhorrent to the
2 principles of this body is just amazing to me.
3 The fact of the matter is, if
4 this individual, Senator Dollinger, cannot pay,
5 there is no such thing as a debtor's prison in
6 this country, and they don't pay. There may be
7 a judgment in the -- in favor of the state of
8 New York against a former inmate for so many
9 dollars. If they don't have the money, they
10 don't pay. It's just like if you were a college
11 student who is on the outside who couldn't get a
12 job after getting your education and couldn't
13 pay your student loans; if there's no money
14 there, you don't pay. There's a judgment that's
15 non-collectable.
16 So the point of the matter is,
17 all this is doing is by putting those who get an
18 education in the prisons on the same footing of
19 those who get an education outside the prisons,
20 and I can't imagine that any prisoner who wants
21 to get a college education will be deterred from
22 doing that because someone hands a debt -- a
23 note to them saying that you're going to have to
504
1 sign this to pay back your obligation, and I
2 would love to see the statistics if this bill is
3 passed as to how many people choose not to take
4 an education in prison because they have to sign
5 a note. I got a feeling there won't be any.
6 So the bill makes common sense.
7 It doesn't deprive anybody of anything. It puts
8 everybody on an equal footing, and I'll vote in
9 favor of the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
11 Montgomery.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 I'm going to vote against the
15 bill as I have in the past, and I just want to
16 remind my colleagues that yes, we have 69 -
17 it's my understanding that we have 69 prison -
18 state prison facilities and about 65,000
19 prisoners, as has been confirmed by Senator
20 Cook, and I estimate that we are spending about
21 $9 million a day on our prison system, and so I
22 can very well understand Senator Cook's
23 intention in attempting to recoup some of the
505
1 funding that we -- we have to do for those
2 people who are in college -- who are in prison.
3 However, I would just like to
4 remind Senator Cook, Mr. President, that it is
5 my understanding that the average prisoner -
6 the reading level of the average prisoner is
7 about the third grade, perhaps the fifth, on the
8 high end.
9 And we have 65,000 people.
10 That's the size of -- that's much larger than
11 the size of most school districts in our state,
12 and I believe it was last week at the
13 Corrections -- the budget hearing on the
14 Department of Corrections where Commissioner
15 Coughlin himself has stated that we need a
16 marshall plan to deal with crime and to try and
17 address, according to him, young people before
18 they enter the prisons, so we need to talk about
19 education and improving our systems and housing
20 and services to young people, youth programs,
21 and what have you. That is according to our own
22 Corrections Commissioner. It is his statement
23 to us that we can no longer afford a costly
506
1 prison system that we keep escalating, while at
2 the same time we keep seeing an increase in
3 crime. Citizens of New York State are not any
4 safer.
5 Now, Senator Cook wants to recoup
6 money from these students -- these inmates who
7 are students. The fact of the matter is, we're
8 doing ourselves a big favor because if we're
9 able to take what I understand to be a lifer or
10 long termer -- and I get mail from people who
11 say they're long termers. I suppose those are
12 the ones who are primarily in these college
13 courses, and they tell me how they've been -
14 they've taken classes. They've gotten their GED
15 and they've gotten their certificate in this and
16 that. They've been to literacy classes. They
17 join organizations within the prisons. They
18 take classes wherever they are, in community
19 colleges, some of them in four-year colleges.
20 They get degrees, and they're now hopefully
21 going to come back to society as a whole person
22 not as the same person that they -- that they
23 were when they went in, and it is my hope -
507
1 I have a prison release program
2 in my district which I'm proud to say is very
3 successful. Those people are being integrated
4 back into society. I'm happy that they are not
5 the same people that they were when they went
6 in, and that program is there because we want to
7 change the lives of people, and it is my
8 assumption that when New York State decided that
9 it would entertain providing higher education
10 for inmates, that we, at that point in time,
11 decided that we wanted to rehabilitate people
12 and we wanted to change them and we wanted to,
13 hopefully, be sure that they were different when
14 they came out than when they went in.
15 So what is this business about
16 collecting money when they come out in six
17 months? And do you want to know what happens,
18 Senator, to students who have loans and they
19 can't pay them? Their credit is ruined forever,
20 and it's not the students primarily who attend
21 four-year schools. It's students who come out,
22 they're poor to begin with, they go to a bad
23 school, they don't get a certificate, they don't
508
1 complete their work, they can't complete their
2 work, when they come out, they can't get a job
3 and their credit is ruined forever, so they're
4 forever -- they will forever be in poverty.
5 So, I would just like to ask and
6 urge, Senator Cook, to think it through. What
7 is the purpose to begin with of us having
8 students -- having inmates go to college? And
9 what does it benefit us? Is this -- you say in
10 your -- in your memo that it would be a
11 significant savings, but you've never been able
12 to say exactly what that savings is, and I don't
13 know what you're even talking about when you say
14 tuition, because no student pays the entire cost
15 of tuition in the state of New York. So what
16 will we be charging inmates? What will that
17 amount to, and how in the world will they be
18 able to begin paying it back in six months if
19 they're not -- if they're not yet settled,
20 working and productive citizens?
21 So, Senator Cook, I understand
22 the intent, what -- you know, your anxiety about
23 spending this money, but I have another kind of
509
1 anxiety, and that is, until we are willing to
2 put the money up front, on the front end, which
3 we are not, we're very happy to spend $9 million
4 a day on a prison system, but we will not spend
5 any money on youth programs and, until we're
6 ready to do that, I don't want to penalize
7 prisoners; I want to educate them. I want them
8 to be different when they come out of prison
9 than when they go in, and I want them to be
10 hopefully better citizens, and I want them
11 hopefully not to go back in and I would like to
12 reduce the prison population, and I believe this
13 is one of the ways of reducing that population
14 and reducing it in a way that makes our
15 communities and neighborhoods safer and while,
16 at the same time, giving those -- those
17 prisoners an opportunity to improve themselves.
18 So, I'm going to vote no against
19 this bill because I think that it goes in the
20 wrong direction and if -- if Senator Cook were
21 -- Mr. President, if Senator Cook were looking
22 to reduce our Corrections and prison costs in
23 the state, I think that he would be looking at
510
1 other ways of doing that, more genuine ways in
2 terms of reducing cost and not hurting us, such
3 as alternative sentencing and that sort of
4 thing, but not to take away this program which
5 is so vital to inmates.
6 I vote no. We're not voting yet,
7 are we? I'm going to vote no. Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Gold.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
11 think there's a reason why Senator Cook has not
12 bothered to get the numbers as to what it's
13 actually going to save, and I don't say that in
14 any nasty way, Senator Cook. I think the
15 significance of your bill, as many people see
16 it, is not the cost at all, but it's a social
17 statement. I've heard a couple of people say
18 that people go to school, they're not in jail
19 and have to repay loans, and they're good guys
20 we forget about. We don't take care of them and
21 why should a guy have to throw a brick through a
22 window to get a college education, and that's
23 what this bill is about. It's making a social
511
1 statement. I think it's a terrible social
2 statement. I think it's the wrong social
3 statement, but that's what it is.
4 I'm not going to go spend hours
5 on history, but there's not one person in this
6 room that hasn't seen some of the old movies,
7 "The Count of Monte Cristo", and you want to go
8 back. You put somebody in there. You throw
9 some food in a few times day. You don't care
10 what happens. They shave, they smell, they
11 die.
12 Well, we've made social decisions
13 that come past that. We've made social
14 decisions that say that it's better for society
15 if we have a school system and educate our
16 system. It's better for society if we have
17 senior centers. It's good for society if we
18 spend money to make sure that Lake Cayuga is
19 operating right and that the parks are good, and
20 we also made social statements that say that if
21 we rehabilitate people who are in jail, at least
22 those who are rehabilitatable, that we're doing
23 something significant for society.
512
1 Now, nobody that I know of has
2 come to this floor and preached that everybody
3 who commits a crime can be rehabilitated, and
4 that, if we only had the perfect rehabilitation
5 system, that we would have people come out of
6 our jails ready to be altar boys. I mean, now,
7 please. But if you want to talk about
8 rehabilitation, at least talk about
9 rehabilitating people who are those that are
10 rehabilitatable because there is a socially
11 significant result if we do that and, therefore,
12 this bill is not only going in the wrong
13 direction but a lot of the arguments I hear are
14 just unrealistic. They're just unrealistic
15 arguments. Somebody does something wrong?
16 Fine, we have punishments set out for that and,
17 then, many people feel that ought to kind of be
18 the end of it.
19 On the other side of the coin,
20 you get a year in jail if you have a gun
21 illegally, unless you're a rock star at the
22 airport. Then you don't go to jail. Or if you
23 happen to be a vigilante on the street and the
513
1 two guys you killed you say tried to hold you
2 up, then we don't put you in jail. Well, maybe
3 everybody ought to be a vigilante.
4 People who are in jail are there
5 for a good reason. They got sentenced, and
6 that's fine. But now you take the next step.
7 We've had programs in the jail where we've
8 wasted Republican taxpayer money, Democratic
9 taxpayer money, all of our taxpayers' money,
10 teaching people how to do work on cars and be
11 auto mechanics. Unfortunately, they learn how
12 to fix cars that are 30 years old and then they
13 come out of jail and they're unemployable.
14 Well, I hope we passed that scandal about ten
15 years ago.
16 We've had a couple programs. We
17 taught people some kind of work where they could
18 do -- fix sewing machines. Well, at one point
19 they were fixing sewing machines that nobody
20 used anymore.. I think we figured that one out
21 and maybe come a little ways there. But if
22 somebody who, I grant you, has violated the law,
23 has the intellectual capacity to do some college
514
1 work, come out and, then, in fact, become a
2 taxpaying member of society with a decent job,
3 why is that not paying back the state rather
4 than being caught up in the -- in the welfare
5 mess and the criminal mess, et cetera, et
6 cetera.
7 Now, how do you answer that farm
8 boy or that very decent young man or woman in
9 upstate New York or even in the City who never
10 violated the law and who finds it difficult?
11 Not easily, because what we're talking about
12 here is trying to put together a body of law
13 that sets forth a social scheme that is in the
14 best interests of society, and every time we do
15 something it doesn't mean that it's going to be
16 easy to explain it to this one or that one or
17 the other one. We just have to know that what
18 we're trying to do is right and in the best
19 interests of everybody.
20 When we started charging tuition
21 at City University in New York, I know I was
22 very upset and I know many people on the other
23 side of the aisle were very upset. It had been
515
1 a free university system. It was one of the
2 most significant things that we were able to do
3 for our young people, is not only bring them to
4 a really fine elementary and high school system
5 of free public education in New York City, but
6 also bring them on -- those who are more
7 talented into City University, and the time came
8 where we had to charge for that and I understand
9 that.
10 But what you're talking about
11 here is such a minute amount of money in the
12 scheme of things that the only reason the bill
13 is before us and the only significance of the
14 bill is not financial; it is social and that's
15 why I got to vote against the bill. That is the
16 reason for it, because while Senator Cook is not
17 a mean-spirited person, and I'll take off my
18 jacket to fight to defend you on that one,
19 Senator Cook, the bill is mean spirited because
20 what the bill is saying is that it's taking a
21 portion of our young people and setting them off
22 against others and the ones that they're being
23 set off against are easy targets because they're
516
1 in jail. They're easy targets.
2 But I'll tell you, Senator Cook,
3 for what it costs us for one of these young
4 people in jail to get that education, if they
5 don't commit other crimes, if they do become
6 taxpaying members to society, we've gotten our
7 bang for the buck. There's no doubt about it.
8 We've gotten what we paid for and we ought to be
9 thrilled about it.
10 And if the only thing we can say
11 negative about that program is that there's a
12 farm boy or girl or whatever who can't get the
13 education without repaying a loan, I can't
14 answer that. That's -- maybe we just have to
15 take care of them too and maybe take some park
16 money -- but I guess the park money is good too.
17 Maybe we're not dealing with our budgets
18 properly, but I don't think the answer is
19 setting off one against the other, and I think
20 the social policy that the bill talks about is
21 not good social policy.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
23 Dollinger.
517
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. In the wake of some of the
3 comments here, I felt compelled to just address
4 one issue. I guess, Mr. Chairman, I agree with
5 my colleagues, Senator Gold and Senator
6 Montgomery. This bill really depends on your
7 perspective. I guess from the other side of the
8 aisle, what I hear you saying is that prison is
9 this wonderful place to go, free food, free
10 exercise, free education. We'll even give you a
11 free friend, somebody who follows you around all
12 the time with a big set of keys on their belt
13 and probably with a club in their hand or a
14 weapon in their hand and they'll follow you
15 wherever you go. That's a wonderful thing to
16 do. It's all free, entirely free, except, of
17 course, there's one other thing. You can't
18 leave. You got to get up when you're told. You
19 got to leave your room when you're told. The
20 doors clang shut.
21 I submit, my colleagues, what
22 we're doing is, this is a system in which we
23 punish people by taking away their liberty. We
518
1 don't let them go freely out in society. That's
2 the way we punish them, but once we do that we
3 have another approach, which is to rehabilitate
4 that person, because the purpose of the Penal
5 Law passed by this body, if you look at it
6 carefully in Section 1 of the New York State
7 Penal Law, is not only to punish those who
8 commit crimes but to rehabilitate them as well.
9 So what do we do to rehabilitate
10 them? We provide them, I guess, with all those
11 services that the other side of the aisle sees
12 as free services, by providing them counseling,
13 by providing them drug treatment, by providing
14 them with education. All those services that
15 they get for free simply because they're in the
16 prison system.
17 I submit, Mr. President, that
18 what we ought to do is recognize that by taking
19 away their liberty, their ability to come and go
20 as they please, we're punishing them enough, and
21 what we ought to do, as Senator Gold said and
22 Senator Montgomery said, is to keep the spirit
23 of rehabilitation alive, to try to give them as
519
1 much as we can so that they become productive
2 citizens. They can become future taxpayers.
3 They can get out and avoid recidivism and become
4 full members of our society.
5 I submit and I concur with
6 Senator Gold, it's not only mean spirited, but
7 it comes from the wrong perspective of what
8 prison is. It's not a free place to go for a
9 vacation. It's a place in which we incarcerate
10 people who are dangerous and we hope, with the
11 assistance of taxpayer money for what's needed,
12 education, drug treatment, counseling, we will
13 get them into a position where they will be able
14 to be free and productive members of our
15 society.
16 I will again vote -- as I said
17 earlier, Mr. President, I will vote no. We're
18 just dealing with the wrong perceptions.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Espada.
21 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
22 President.
23 I think the order of things, I
520
1 think would have me agree with Senator
2 DeFrancisco, that, in fact, this is a rather
3 perplexing kind of dialogue we're having but not
4 surprising because it does, Senator Dollinger,
5 have to do with perspective, but it more has to
6 do with a routine that we've gotten into that
7 has more to do with philosophical doctrines than
8 an individual perspective because it isn't about
9 mean-spirited individuals.
10 I -- I am here for the second
11 session and I haven't met too many mean-spirited
12 individuals in either house. The fact of the
13 matter is that we have the big divide here.
14 Every time we look at poor people
15 on welfare, we choose to look at fingerprinting
16 machines, how to take their picture so they
17 won't defraud the franchise, maybe, that they
18 fought so hard to get, that maybe once upon a
19 time were barred -- constitutionally barred from
20 voting.
21 When we look at prisons, we don't
22 necessarily look at the origins of those
23 prisoners. Unfortunately, we know that they
521
1 come from six or seven Assembly districts,
2 mostly in New York City.
3 So, I am not surprised but I am
4 disappointed that you are adept at this kind of
5 dialogue because it is wholly unproductive.
6 We've seen that time and time again. We have a
7 fixation on superficiality of the issue and not
8 the real guts of the matter.
9 I don't think that there would be
10 any prisoners that would mind paying multiple
11 tuition and being with their children and wives,
12 building communities. It is ironic that we say
13 that the only social benefit of this legislation
14 is that it would create an even playing field.
15 For whom and for what? Who has senators here to
16 create even playing fields? Is it for the
17 students -- the middle income students, the
18 working parents that have to pay tuition?
19 Senator Dollinger, I'm already
20 paying tuition for a 20-year-old. I would like
21 an even playing field but this doesn't provide
22 it because, if it did, this would be some
23 savings that will accrue to people like me and
522
1 you in our communities. Give me some dollars,
2 we will save $20 million. Then perhaps you will
3 get some attention from hard working, middle
4 income people that want an even playing field.
5 But the fact of the matter is
6 that there are no significant savings and that,
7 in fact, who are fixated by punishing people who
8 are already getting punished by law, doing their
9 time. It is unfortunate that you get a Mike
10 Tyson going to jail, functionally illiterate and
11 learning how to read in jail, he can probably
12 pay you back in some fashion, but what about all
13 those other people that we've sent to jail,
14 totally illiterate, that pick up the Koran or
15 pick up the Bible for the first time and start
16 to read -- and start to read about their
17 culture? Do you really think they come back to
18 their communities after being in those
19 hellholes, in the dark, reading, to come back to
20 the community and rip you off?
21 So, Senator, the message that we
22 would send here today if this would pass is
23 that, yes, that we didn't recognize their work
523
1 while in jail, and, in fact, maybe we did,
2 because there's cynical minds out there that
3 said maybe we did. Maybe we don't want them to
4 do so well and maybe we really want them to come
5 back so they can go back in.
6 The recidivism rates being what
7 they are, we have as an unintentioned, perhaps,
8 result of this legislation, paved the way for
9 people that do achieve something in jail to come
10 back out only to get back in because we've
11 provided them with no hope and no support system
12 on the outside except more debt.
13 I vote no and encourage all
14 people really concerned with dealing with the
15 causal issues of why people end up in jail in
16 the first place to vote no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 stiff stiff stiff stiff, I ask those of you who
19 are inclined to vote for this piece of
20 legislation, do not feel sorry for the
21 incarcerated; feel concerned about the rest of
22 society, the people who will be victimized by
23 those who have been sent to jail and who will
524
1 learn what, how to snatch a pocketbook, how to
2 steal your car, how to rob a bank, how to
3 merchandise drugs? What skills will they pick
4 up in prison? There isn't a big employment
5 opportunity for making license plates in the
6 civilian market. If everybody who's in jail
7 could be guaranteed a job making license plates
8 when they're released from prison, then they
9 will have learned something. But what are the
10 skills they're going to pick up in jail? What
11 will they have when they are released from
12 prison, except more of the same. They can make
13 a lot of money stealing cars. 168,000 of your
14 constituents' -- and sometimes members of the
15 Legislature are included -- have had their cars
16 stolen a year ago. 168,000.
17 I'll tell you the cost.
18 Two-thirds of a billion dollars that the
19 constituents of yours and the insurance
20 companies had to shell out because there are
21 people whose skills do not go beyond stealing
22 cars. It's a low risk, high profit field, where
23 you get a $10,000 car and there aren't too many
525
1 cars that are available for $10,000 -- will
2 bring $38,000 on the illegal market.
3 They'll get a wonderful,
4 wonderful opportunity to hone their skills in
5 car theft or in burglary or in knocking down an
6 elderly person and stealing a wallet or a purse,
7 but what are the skills they're going to pick
8 up? Think about what you are preparing these
9 inmates for in life after prison, and ask
10 yourself if there is the slightest possibility
11 that we can teach them something more productive
12 and lawful for our benefit, for the benefit of
13 your constituents, not necessarily for your
14 benefit. View the opportunity for an education
15 to be some protection for your community and not
16 a protection or a benefit for the inmate. Of
17 course, the inmate will learn something, maybe.
18 I hope they learn more than those people who sit
19 through classes in school and simply want that
20 diploma or that degree at the end but are not
21 bent upon learning anything.
22 The inmates are not going to have
23 any distraction. They will have unlimited time
526
1 to study. They're not going to go out on a wild
2 drinking party or a drug party unless it's being
3 circulated within the facility, so they will
4 have unlimited time to learn, to study, to pick
5 up some positive skills, and I want you to be as
6 mean spirited as you are or want to be with
7 regard to punishing the wrongdoer. You will be
8 punishing the wrongdoer by making that
9 individual, perhaps a rightdoer, by picking up
10 some skills.
11 We're playing with ideology
12 here. We're playing with news releases. We're
13 playing with mailings to constituents who want
14 us to sock it to the criminal. Sock it to the
15 criminal. Send them to jail for every year and
16 every month to which they should be sent to
17 jail, but when they're there, give them
18 something that will enable them to get out of
19 the cycle of recidivism, because they're going
20 to be back. They'll be back the moment they get
21 out of jail.
22 Let me ask you. Where are you
23 going to get the money to pay off the cost of
527
1 the education? They're not being hired by
2 prestigious law firms or accounting firms or
3 financial institutions. There are no jobs
4 waiting for them. Where will they get the loan
5 to pay off the tuition? Do they have to steal
6 again? Do they have to rob and rape your
7 constituents in order to pay off the cost of the
8 tuition? Where do they get the money? There
9 aren't jobs for people who have never gone to
10 prison. Where would these former inmates find
11 jobs waiting for them that will give them enough
12 money to go straight and to pay off educational
13 loans?
14 We have in this country default
15 -- default by people who have taken student
16 loans and have not had criminal records and have
17 become doctors and other professionals, and they
18 have not paid off their student loans. Why
19 don't we go after some of these people who are
20 earning sufficient money to repay the cost of
21 their education, but these people in many cases
22 will remain the dregs of the underclass because
23 there won't be jobs waiting for them unless we
528
1 make it possible for them to inquire acquire a
2 skill that will permit them to go to work and
3 receive a paycheck.
4 Be as conservative as you can.
5 Be reactionary, if you wish, but voting against
6 this bill will be in keeping with the most
7 conservative members of this legislature
8 ideology, because you don't want to cause -
9 cause them to go into a new life of crime when
10 they have completed their old life of crime in
11 order to repay what we're asking them to do
12 here. If they are working, it's one thing.
13 Don't hold your breath waiting for an inmate,
14 for all of the inmates receive an education to
15 get well-paying jobs.
16 I hope you will reconsider and,
17 for a change, give this bill a no vote rather
18 than yes vote.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect on the first day of
23 January, next succeeding the date on which it
529
1 shall have become a law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Slow
4 roll call has been asked for.
5 Sergeant-at-Arms, please get the
6 members into the chamber.
7 Secretary will call the slow roll
8 call.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush,
10 excused.
11 Senator Bruno.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator Cook.
16 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly.
18 SENATOR DALY: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 DeFrancisco.
21 SENATOR DE FRANCISCO: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo.
23 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes.
530
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
5 SENATOR ESPADA: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Gold.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Gonzalez.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Goodman.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator Hannon.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Hoffmann.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Holland.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
23 (There was no response.)
531
1 Senator Jones.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Kuhl.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Lack.
6 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
8 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter,
12 excused.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator Libous.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Senator Marchi.
20 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino,
22 aye.
23 Senator Markowitz.
532
1 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
2 Senator Mendez, excused.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Montgomery.
5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan.
7 SENATOR NOLAN: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Ohrenstein, no.
12 Senator Onorato.
13 SENATOR ONORATO: May I have my
14 name called, Mr. President, to explain my vote?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Onorato to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President,
18 I discussed this bill in committee, and I agree
19 with the -- with the concept of it, but I ask
20 the sponsor of the bill to lay it aside for an
21 amendment, and the amendment would have been a
22 very, very simple factor. All it would have
23 required was that the exact concept be addressed
533
1 provided, of course, the prisoner, when he comes
2 out with his college education is gainfully
3 employed and is capable of making the payment,
4 because as we all know, the job market is not
5 all that great, especially for a prisoner and a
6 six-month period of time to repay that loan is
7 real -- unrealistic but, again, I continue to
8 urge the sponsor to lay this bill aside and put
9 that proviso in that they be gainfully employed
10 and I'm sure you're going to get a lot more
11 support on this side of the aisle.
12 Under these circumstances, I will
13 -- under the current bill, I vote no.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 Onorato in the negative.
16 Continue the roll.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Oppenheimer.
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki.
23 (There was no response.)
534
1 Senator Paterson, excused.
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Saland.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Saland, to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
10 during the course of this debate, I have been in
11 and out of the chamber attending to several
12 matters, and I have had the opportunity,
13 however, to hear a significant portion of the
14 debate, and I have -- I'm somewhat perplexed by
15 the tenor of the comments I've heard.
16 I think Senator Cook has crafted,
17 very carefully crafted a bill that basically
18 attempts to provide equity, a bill that attempts
19 to, on the one hand, not deny the opportunity
20 for someone to receive a college education.
21 He's merely addressing the issue of the cost of
22 that college education, and what he's, in
23 effect, saying people who receive a college
535
1 education while they're serving time in our
2 prisons should not be treated any differently
3 than anybody else who, in effect, is being
4 subsidized by way of a loan program, and I find
5 that to be certainly, from his perspective very,
6 very equitable. In fact, I've proposed, by way
7 of legislation, to perhaps be even less
8 equitable than that.
9 I commend him for attempting to
10 address a problem that probably means somewhere
11 in the area of about $5 million a year in
12 expenses to the people of the state of New
13 York. You're probably talking several thousand
14 inmates, as many as 5,000, who avail themselves
15 during the course of a year to this type of a
16 program. I'm at a loss to comprehend why
17 someone would not want to require that in some
18 reasonable fashion, those monies not be repaid
19 to the people of the state of New York.
20 I would think on the one hand,
21 those who are serving time and who have received
22 the benefit of an education should certainly
23 greatly appreciate that they've had that
536
1 opportunity, should certainly greatly appreciate
2 the fact that they've received a subsidized
3 education at the expense of the taxpayers and
4 certainly having found their lot improved, which
5 I think would be safe to conclude, should not
6 begrudge those very same taxpayers the
7 opportunity to be reimbursed for their hard
8 earned dollars.
9 Mr. Speaker, I thank Senator Cook
10 -- Mr. President, I thank Senator Cook for
11 bringing this bill out to the floor. I betrayed
12 my roots again -- and commend him for doing so
13 and certainly support this measure. I vote aye,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Saland in the affirmative.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Senator Sears.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Senator Seward.
22 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
537
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
3 SENATOR SMITH: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Spano.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Stachowski.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Stafford.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Stavisky.
13 (There was no response.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
15 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
17 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
19 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
21 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
23 (There was no response.)
538
1 Senator Wright.
2 (There was no response.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
4 Secretary will call the absentees.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Gold.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Gonzalez.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Hannon.
12 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann.
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Senator Levy.
20 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
22 (There was no response.)
23 Senator Pataki.
539
1 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Santiago.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Sears.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Solomon.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Stafford.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Wright.
13 (There was no response.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33, nays 11.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: On page 88,
19 Calendar Number 124, by Senator Marino, Senate
20 Bill Number 6397, proposing amendment to the
21 Constitution, in relation to filling a vacancy
22 in the office of Comptroller and Attorney
23 General.
540
1 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
3 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Connor,
5 this legislation which has been proposed by
6 Senator Marino and sponsored by 35 senators,
7 would provide a mechanism by which a special
8 election could be held for the election of
9 Comptroller or Attorney General, should a
10 vacancy occur prior to April 1st of the fourth
11 year of their term.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Connor.
14 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, Mr.
15 President. I have hostile amendment that I
16 would like to call up now. I'll waive its
17 reading and explain it.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 Connor, on the amendment.
20 SENATOR CONNOR: This addresses
21 what I think is just -- it must be an oversight
22 on Senator Marino's resolution. Let me say, I
23 support the concept and I think most of us here
541
1 do, of letting the people elect the important
2 statewide officers, and I know the genesis for
3 this proposal was last year when first the
4 Comptroller's Office became vacant and, you
5 know, while there were editorials and people who
6 said, "Gee whiz, look at these offices becoming
7 vacant; why not have an election." Obviously we
8 had to follow the only Constitution we have and
9 that's the one that's in effect now, and that's
10 what we did, but in principle, I really do
11 support this resolution, but Senator Marino
12 forgot one other statewide office.
13 I think we should include in here
14 vacancies in the office of Lieutenant Governor,
15 and I think when that office becomes vacant as
16 we saw not so many years ago, the Lieutenant
17 Governorship was vacant for nearly three years,
18 and the burden of acting as Lieutenant Governor
19 and standing a heartbeat away from the
20 Governorship fell then to our Majority Leader,
21 Senator Anderson, and I really think, and my
22 amendment would add to this resolution, and I
23 think we can all support it, the office of
542
1 Lieutenant Governor, so that if there should be
2 a vacancy in that office, either because there's
3 a vacancy due to the resignation, death or
4 removal of a Lieutenant Governor or similarly a
5 resignation, death or removal from the state of
6 a Governor whereby the Lieutenant Governor would
7 succeed to the Governorship, in either of those
8 events, the net result would be a vacancy in the
9 office of Lieutenant Governor, and without
10 including in this Constitutional Amendment, that
11 office of the Lieutenant Governor, the Majority
12 Leader, the Temporary President of the Senate
13 would not become Lieutenant Governor, but would
14 rather be, in effect, acting or next in line to
15 the Governorship. Again, someone not elected by
16 all of the people of the state would be in line
17 for succeeding to the highest office in the
18 state.
19 So I think the very principle
20 that motivates Senator Marino to put forward
21 this idea that we shouldn't have an Attorney
22 General or we shouldn't have a Comptroller, if
23 at all possible, and I accept, you know, the
543
1 limitations in here, within 60 days of a general
2 election. Obviously it's not practical to have
3 a special election, but in the first three years
4 of a term it is, and that very principle that
5 motivates Senator Marino to put forth this
6 enlightened amendment to our constitution also
7 applies to the office of Lieutenant Governor.
8 We ought not have someone in line
9 to succeed to the Governorship of the state who
10 is not elected by the people of the state. If
11 we can at all prevent that, and my amendment
12 would prevent that, and I know there will be
13 those who will say, "Oh, but the Majority leader
14 of the Senate is elected by a majority of the
15 peoples' representatives in this house" but, of
16 course, the same thing can apply to the present
17 system on Attorney General or Comptroller or
18 under the present Constitution, a majority of
19 the peoples' representatives in the
20 Legislature.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
22 Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Just maybe my
544
1 vision is not doing me well as I approach my
2 46th birthday. Could you tell me where your
3 amendment discuss the office of -
4 SENATOR CONNOR: Which amendment
5 did you put in?
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lieutenant
7 Governor?
8 SENATOR CONNOR: The one from
9 last year. The other thing I would do is, of
10 course -- I had two amendments last year. I
11 said put in last year's amendments. The other
12 thing, of course, pointing out that oversight
13 about Lieutenant Governor under -- under the
14 resolution as proposed, because our special
15 elections scheme requires the Governor to call a
16 special election on 30 to 45 days notice. We
17 don't have primaries; therefore, this resolution
18 would empower the party leaders, the leaders of
19 the five parties to select the candidates in
20 this statewide special election. It would put
21 perhaps a major party at the mercy of a minor
22 party, and a minor party's leader.
23 Now, I don't think under those
545
1 circumstances, for example, the Republican party
2 ought to have to be beholden to the chair for
3 -- Grady of the Conservative Party who can
4 stand back and say, "You take my candidate or
5 I'm going to run my own candidate and sink your
6 party." That's what could happen under this
7 resolution, nor should the other major party be
8 hostage to one of the smaller parties.
9 The solution in my amendment is
10 to allow sufficient time during the special
11 election process that there could be an open
12 statewide primary election followed by a
13 statewide special election, and this would
14 remedy that -- you understand under our election
15 law, the party bosses, the party leaders would
16 simply pick these candidates, so now what we do
17 is instead of having the Attorney General and
18 the Comptroller selected by the peoples'
19 representatives in the Legislature, they would,
20 in effect, be selected, certainly the four or
21 five people who could get the play, would be
22 selected by party leaders.
23 A very, very bad system, and one
546
1 that, while theoretically independents could
2 run, they would have 12 days to gather 10,000
3 signatures, 15,000 signatures, statewide, to get
4 on the ballot as an independent. I don't think
5 we ought to cut off independents and I certainly
6 don't think we ought to cut off the major
7 parties from having primaries and I don't think
8 we ought to leave the major parties hostage to
9 smaller parties. That's just not a good system
10 and it's doomed to failure, Mr. President,
11 doomed to failure in the modern political
12 process, so I would urge my amendment.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
14 Questions on the amendment.
15 Senator Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could the
17 sponsor yhield to one question, Mr. President?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 Connor, would you yield to a question?
20 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does your
22 amendment provide for a join ballot or a
23 concurrent resolution for the election of these
547
1 -- of that position and these positions?
2 SENATOR CONNOR: No, no no, no.
3 My amendment -- Senator Marino's proposal is to
4 have a statewide special election. My amendment
5 would provide for a statewide primary for each
6 political party as well as a subsequent special
7 election.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So the
9 amendment does not address the issue of either
10 joint ballot or concurrent resolution.
11 SENATOR CONNOR: No, the whole -
12 under either proposal, we would take it away
13 from the Legislature.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't want to
15 really explain your amendment, but under the
16 amendment, there would be a joint ballot for the
17 selection of a temporary Comptroller or Attorney
18 General by the Legislature rather than a
19 concurrent resolution.
20 SENATOR CONNOR: Correct. In
21 only those limited cases where the time -- time
22 lapses between the vacancy and the next election
23 allowed not for the election of the office but a
548
1 temporary one until the next election under
2 those limited circumstances.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
4 Questions on the amendment. All those in favor
5 signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (Response of "Nay.")
9 In the opinion of the Chair, the
10 nays have it. The amendment is defeated. Read
11 the last section.
12 Senator Dollinger.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
14 President, could I ask the sponsor, Senator one
15 question on the -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator,
17 would you yield to a question.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
19 make sure I understand this. The proposal
20 before the house is to provide by concurrent
21 resolution, approved by a majority of each
22 house, is that correct?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Under the
549
1 legislation that we have, there would be a
2 special election called within not less than 30
3 days, no more than 40 days, from the date the
4 Governor proclaims that there should be a
5 special election, so there is -- if the vacancy
6 occurs after April 1st of the fourth year, then
7 there would be a concurrent resolution to select
8 the Comptroller until the next -- well, until
9 January 1st of the following year, I believe it
10 is.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
12 understand it again, Mr. President, since I'm
13 somewhat of a newcomer, that would a deviation
14 from the current practice which would require
15 joint ballot to fill that -- in that April 1st
16 to the end of the term time frame. Okay.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: On the
18 resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar Number 124 are Senators
22 Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gold, Markowitz,
23 Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Onorato, Smith, Stavisky
550
1 and Waldon. Ayes 43, nays 11.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
3 resolution is adopted.
4 Senator Maltese.
5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
6 I was away on Senate business when the vote on
7 Calendar Number 119, Senate Print 2754, was
8 taken. I would like the record to reflect that
9 had I been present in the chamber, I would have
10 voted in the affirmative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
12 record will so indicate.
13 SENATOR MALTESE: Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 Connor.
16 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President,
17 on behalf of Senator Nolan, I move that the
18 following bills be discharged from their
19 respective committees and be recommitted with
20 instructions to strike of the enacting clause,
21 Senate Print number 2949-A.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
23 objection.
551
1 Secretary will read Calendar
2 Number 130.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 130, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill 438, an
5 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay it
8 aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 142, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6327,
11 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
12 relation to Life Care communities.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING SENATOR SPANO: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
22 is passed.
23 That completes the controversial
552
1 calendar.
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Hold it a
4 minute.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Rath.
7 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr. President.
8 I was away on Senate business when the vote
9 was taken -- on Calendar Number 119, Senate
10 Print 2754 was taken. I would like to be
11 recorded -- have the record to reflect that, had
12 I been here, I would have voted in the
13 affirmative on Calendar Number 119. Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
15 record will so indicate.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 there being no further business, I move that we
19 adjourn until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
21 Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at
22 3:00 p.m.
23 (Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., the
553
1 Senate adjourned.)
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