Regular Session - March 15, 1994
1244
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9 Albany, New York
10 March 15, 1994
11 3:26 p.m.
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15 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR NICHOLAS A. Spano, Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1245
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
3 Senate will come to order. All please rise for
4 the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
5 (The assemblage repeated the
6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
7 In the absence of clergy, may we
8 please bow our heads in a moment of silence.
9 (A moment of silence was
10 observed. )
11 Reading of the Journal.
12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
13 Monday, March 14th. The Senate met pursuant to
14 adjournment, Senator Spano in the Chair upon
15 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer
16 by Rabbi David Niederman of the United Jewish
17 Organizations of Williamsburg, Brooklyn. The
18 Journal of Friday, March 11th, was read and
19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
1246
1 Messages from the Assembly.
2 The Governor.
3 Reports of standing committees.
4 Motions and resolutions. Senator
5 Farley.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
7 President. On behalf of Senator Stafford, I
8 have a motion to reconsider, substitute and
9 amend here.
10 Mr. President, I wish to call up
11 Calendar 222, Senate Print 8651.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
13 Secretary will read the title. Secretary will
14 read.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
16 Stafford, Senate Bill 8651, an act to amend the
17 Public Finance Law and the Public Authorities
18 Law.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to
20 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill
21 was substituted for Senator Stafford's bill,
22 Senate Print 6001 on March 8th.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
1247
1 roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Bill is
6 before the house.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: And I now move
8 that the Assembly Bill 8651 be recommitted to
9 the Committee on Finance and Senator Stafford's
10 bill, Senate bill, be restored to the order of
11 the Third Reading Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: So
13 ordered.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: And I now offer
15 the following amendments. This is -- that was a
16 long, complicated motion.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: It was a
18 long story, you might say. Senator Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: This one is more
20 simple. On behalf of Senator Kuhl on page -
21 nothing personal, but on page 15, I offer the
22 following amendments to Calendar Number 331,
23 Senate Print Number 3718, and I ask that that
1248
1 bill retain its place.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
3 Amendments received and adopted.
4 Senator Cook.
5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I
6 move the following bills be discharged from
7 their respective committees and be recommitted
8 with instructions to strike the enacting clause:
9 Bills Number 5757, 5864, 6045, 6938.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: So
11 ordered.
12 Senator Saland.
13 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
14 I'd like to star Calendar Number 324, Senate
15 Print 943.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
17 objection.
18 Any other motions, resolutions?
19 Senator Present.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
21 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar,
22 copies of which are on our desks.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Question
1249
1 is on the adoption of the Resolution Calendar.
2 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
3 (Response of "Aye.")
4 Opposed nay.
5 (There was no response. )
6 The Resolution Calendar is
7 adopted.
8 Senator Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 is there a report from the Finance Committee at
11 the desk?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Yes,
13 there is.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: May we have it
15 read, please.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
17 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
18 following nominations:
19 Member of the Small Business
20 Advisory Board: Lynda Ireland, of Hempstead;
21 Kathryn O'Donnell, of Tonawanda; Edward J.
22 Panarello, of Larchmont, and Clarence A. Price
23 of Harpursville;
1250
1 Member of the Port of Oswego
2 Authority: Mary Catherine Landrigan, of Oswego;
3 Victor S. Oakes, of Oswego; Celia A. Sgroi,
4 Ph.D., of Oswego, and James K. Thompson, of
5 Oswego;
6 Member of the Advisory Council on
7 Agriculture: Edwin D. Fessenden, of Kings
8 Ferry; Janice S. Handy, of Fort Plain; Susan
9 Machamer, of Holley;
10 Member of the Advisory Board on
11 Public Work: Ross J. Pepe, of New City;
12 Member of the Mental Health
13 Services Council: Miguel Vilaro, M.D., of
14 Brooklyn;
15 Member of the St. Lawrence
16 Easterm Ontario Commission: Donald I. Turcotte,
17 of Clayton;
18 Member of the New York State Park
19 Recreation and Historic Preservation Commission:
20 Percy E. Patrick, Jr., of Fulton;
21 Member of the Finger Lakes State
22 Park Recreation and Historic Preservation
23 Commission: Clement N. Granoff, of Elmira;
1251
1 Member of the Taconic State Park,
2 Recreation and Historic Preservation Commission:
3 Mary Kay Vrba of Fishkill;
4 Member of the Thousand Islands
5 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
6 Commission: Bruce E. Dempster, of Watertown;
7 Member of the State Health
8 Research Council: Dr. Lawrence S. Sturman, of
9 Albany;
10 Member of the Council on Human
11 Blood and Transfusion Services: Thomas D.
12 Harrington, of Fishkill;
13 Member of the Board of Visitors
14 of the Bronx Psychiatric Center: Sylvia
15 Hershkowitz-Lask, of the Bronx;
16 Member of the Board of Visitors
17 of the Elmira Psychiatric Center: Marion S.
18 Lagonegro, of Elmira;
19 Member of the Board of Visitors
20 of the Kirby Forensic Psychiatric Center:
21 Mildred N. Fine, of Valley Stream;
22 Member of the Board of Visitors
23 of Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center: Dennis J.
1252
1 Manning, of New Hartford and Mary Skorulski, of
2 New Hartford;
3 Member of the Board of Visitors
4 of Pilgrim Psychiatric Center: Manoj R. Shah,
5 M.D., of Merrick;
6 Member of the Board of Visitors
7 of the Queens Children's Psychiatric Center:
8 Mary J. Holowin, of Rego Park;
9 Member of the Board of Visitors
10 of the Rochester Psychiatric Center: Hilda E.
11 Escher of Rochester, and Edward Edward J.
12 Sardisco, of Rochester;
13 Member of the Board of Visitors
14 of St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center: Patrick R.
15 Rourk, of Norwood;
16 Member of the Board of Visitors
17 of the Broome Developmental Disabilities
18 Services Office: John E. Denny, Ph.D., of
19 Maryland, and Mary C. Weidman, of Oxford;
20 Member of the Board of Visitors
21 of the J. N. Adam Developmental Disabilities
22 Services Office: Mitchell R. Burkowsky, Ph.D.,
23 of Fredonia, and Carol Bainbridge Gaiser, of
1253
1 Jamestown;
2 Member of the Board of Visitors
3 of the Staten Island Developmental Disabilities
4 Services Office: Reverend Monsignor John T.
5 Servodidio, of Staten Island;
6 Member of the Board of Visitors
7 of the West Seneca Developmental Center: Maria
8 Cruz-Torres, of Buffalo; Therese Mudd, of
9 Lewiston, and Jessie B. Wells, of Buffalo;
10 Member of the Board of Visitors
11 of the Wilton Developmental Center: Sharon
12 Brooks, of Fort Johnson, and Robert F. Schulz,
13 of Johnstown;
14 Member of the Board of Visitors
15 of the New York State Home for Veterans and
16 Their Dependents at Oxford: Beverly P. Gardiner,
17 of Amsterdam.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Question
19 is on the confirmation of the aforementioned
20 nominees. All those in favor signify by saying
21 aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 Opposed nay.
1254
1 (There was no response. )
2 The nominees are confirmed.
3 Senator Present.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
5 I believe Senator Tully has a privileged
6 resolution at the desk. May we take that up and
7 pass it at this time.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
9 Secretary will read the title of the resolution.
10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
11 resolution, by Senator Tully, commending the
12 Elmont Memorial High School upon the occasion of
13 being named the best high school in New York
14 State in REDBOOK magazine's third annual
15 "America's Best Schools" project.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: On the
17 resolution, all those in a favor signify by
18 saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 Opposed nay.
21 (There was no response. )
22 The resolution is adopted.
23 Senator Present.
1255
1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
2 I believe Senator Volker has a privileged
3 resolution at the desk. May we take that up.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
5 Secretary will read.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator
7 Stafford.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
9 Secretary will read the title of the resolution.
10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
11 Resolution, by Senator Stafford, commemorating
12 the 75th anniversary of the Hudson Falls
13 American Legion Post Number 574, to be
14 celebrated at a testimonial dinner March 19th,
15 1994.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: On the
17 resolution, all those in favor signify by saying
18 aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 Opposed nay.
21 (There was no response. )
22 The resolution is adopted.
23 Senator Present.
1256
1 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you
2 recognize Senator Larkin, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4 Larkin.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
6 on Resolution Number 2864, I'd like to open it
7 up for anyone who would like to be -- this
8 resolution is asking the Governor to proclaim
9 April the 8th, 1994 in New York State as a day
10 of remembrance to the victims of the Holocaust,
11 and to pay special tribute to the people of
12 Denmark for their efforts to rescue Danish Jews.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
14 resolution will remain open at the desk for all
15 members to sponsor.
16 Senator Nozzolio.
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
18 President. I ask permission to star a bill,
19 Calendar Number 327.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Calendar
21 327 is starred at the request of the sponsor.
22 Senator Present, we're ready to
23 begin the calendar.
1257
1 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take the
2 non-controversial calendar up, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: On page 8,
6 Calendar Number 13, by Senator Levy, Senate -
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
8 for the day, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
10 aside for the day.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 40, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 6300-B,
13 an act to amend the Highway Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
23 is passed.
1258
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 88, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 191.
3 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
5 aside.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for
7 the day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
9 aside for the day.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 134, by member of the Assembly Ortloff, Assembly
12 Bill Number 4490-C, an act to amend the County
13 Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
15 last section.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a second.
17 All right. May we have a brief explanation?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay
19 Calendar Number 134 aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 141, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
22 6318, an act to amend the Town Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Home
1259
1 rule message is at the desk. Read the last
2 section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll. )
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 236, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number
13 1053-B, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
14 Law, in relation to an optional school tax
15 exemption.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
1260
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 242, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6390,
5 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 261, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 4583-B,
18 an act to amend the Real -
19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
20 please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1261
1 263, by Senator Padavan, Senate -
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 265, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1707,
7 in relation to requiring the Department of Motor
8 Vehicles to compile information on driving while
9 under the influence of drugs.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside,
11 please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
13 aside for the day.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 279, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 5944,
16 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
1262
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 280, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number
6 6602-A, authorizing the assessor of the county
7 of Nassau to grant an exemption.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 281, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6691,
20 establish a public library district in the town
21 of Esopus, Ulster County.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
23 last section.
1263
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 293, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 184,
11 Criminal Procedure Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
13 last section.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay
16 aside.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
18 for the day, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay 293
20 aside for the day.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 311, by Senator Johnson.
23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay aside for
1264
1 the day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
3 aside for the day.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 312, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number
6 1642-A, Workers' Compensation Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 313, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 4760
19 A, an act to amend the Workers' Compensation
20 Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
1265
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays
6 one, Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the
7 negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 315, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 718,
12 authorize state aid to the town of Hadley,
13 Saratoga County.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Local
15 fiscal impact note is at the desk. Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
1266
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 -- Calendar Number 316, by Senator Libous,
4 Senate Bill Number 1361, an act to amend the
5 Vehicle and Traffic Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 317, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
18 1985-A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
1267
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 318, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2094,
8 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
9 to making technical corrections.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 319, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number
22 2654, an act to amount the Vehicle and Traffic
23 Law.
1268
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll. )
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays
9 one, Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the
10 negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 320, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5487-B,
15 an act in relation to authorizing a review of
16 current drug-impaired driving education.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
1269
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays
2 one, Senator -- ayes 51, nays two, Senators Daly
3 and DeFrancisco recorded in the negative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 321, by member of the Assembly Feldman, Assembly
8 Bill Number 61, an act to amend the Vehicle and
9 Traffic Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 322, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 6676,
22 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
23 relation to fees for certification as motor
1270
1 vehicle inspector.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote; party
10 vote in the affirmative.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 323, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 6735,
16 Transportation Law, in relation to the painting
17 of school bus bumpers.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
23 roll.
1271
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 326, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
7 Assembly Bill Number 8056, Education Law, in
8 relation to absentee ballots for retired
9 persons.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 Did you have a question on this
13 bill, Senator Pataki?
14 SENATOR PATAKI: No, the prior
15 one.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
17 last section on 326.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: The bill is
1272
1 passed.
2 Senator Pataki.
3 SENATOR PATAKI: Was Calendar
4 Number 324 passed, 324?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
6 Starred.
7 SENATOR PATAKI: Starred, thank
8 you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: That
10 bill was starred, Senator Pataki.
11 Senator Daly.
12 SENATOR DALY: Will you
13 reconsider the vote by which 323 passed.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 323, the
15 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
16 (The Secretary called the roll on
17 reconsideration. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Bill is
20 before the house. Lay it aside.
21 SENATOR DALY: Call the vote -
22 I'm not laying it aside. I just wanted to call
23 my vote, please, change my vote.
1273
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: O.K. On
2 Calendar Number 323, the Secretary will read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 2,
10 Senators Daly and Holland recorded in the
11 negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
13 is passed again.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Holland.
17 SENATOR HOLLAND: With unanimous
18 consent, could I be recorded in the negative on
19 Calendar Number 319?
20 SENATOR GOLD: Without objection.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 319,
22 without objection.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1274
1 330, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number
2 880-B, an act to amend the Correction Law and
3 the Insurance Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 332, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4156,
16 authorizing the Commissioner of General Services
17 to sell and convey certain lands to the town of
18 Ulster.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
1275
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 335, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6698,
8 an act to amend the state law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
10 last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Present.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Controversial
21 calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
23 Secretary will read controversial calendar.
1276
1 THE SECRETARY: On page 8,
2 Calendar Number 134, by member of the Assembly
3 Ortloff, Assembly Bill Number 4490-C, an act to
4 amend the County Law.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 261, by Senator Daly.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill
20 Number 4583-B, an act to amend the Real Property
21 Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
23 Daly.
1277
1 SENATOR DALY: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 This bill creates an advisory
4 board for the Secretary of State to assist her
5 in the matters of real estate. It creates a
6 board of 15 members, one of whom will be the
7 Secretary of State. The other 14 members are
8 eight that will be appointed by the Governor.
9 Three -- I'm sorry, two appointed by the
10 Majority Leader of the Senate and the Speaker of
11 the Assembly, and one each by the Minority
12 Leader of the Senate and the Minority Leader in
13 the Assembly.
14 This bill last year passed, I
15 should say has been significantly amended over
16 last year's version, and I do believe that the
17 bill now should meet the objections of this
18 house.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr.
22 President, will Senator Daly yield to a
23 question?
1278
1 SENATOR DALY: Certainly.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
3 yields.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, have you
5 seen the letter from the New York State Consumer
6 Protection Board that is dated June 22nd, and
7 they say that they have opposition and also on
8 the "B" print?
9 SENATOR DALY: But that is on the
10 original bill, the unamended version. You'll
11 notice that there is a "B".
12 SENATOR GOLD: No, it also says,
13 "we also oppose a proposed 'B' version."
14 SENATOR DALY: No, I have not
15 seen that. I have not seen that opposition
16 memo.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, the
18 only question I have is, unless there's any
19 urgency, perhaps we could give you a copy of
20 this and lay it over one day and you can -
21 SENATOR DALY: I don't think
22 that's necessary, Mr. President. I've studied
23 this bill pretty thoroughly, and I've also seen
1279
1 other letters and memos in opposition and I,
2 very frankly, feel that this bill is a good
3 bill. Let me speak, if I may, speak a little
4 further on the bill and perhaps convince my
5 colleague that it is good legislation.
6 As I said, what we have done or
7 what we are trying to do, Mr. President, is to
8 give to the Secretary of State's office some
9 expertise in the area of real estate. As we all
10 know, how one works affects everything, and as
11 we all feel, that since the promulgation and the
12 administration of real estate laws generally
13 comes under the Secretary of State's office, in
14 many cases that she should have a functioning
15 board made up partially of members of the real
16 estate industry, but with a majority of the
17 members being consumer oriented, non-members of
18 the real estate industry.
19 We do this, Mr. President, by
20 allowing the Governor, again, eight appoint
21 ments, three of whom can be from the real estate
22 industry; the Majority Leader, as I said, has
23 two, one of whom will be from the real estate
1280
1 industry; the Speaker the same and then the
2 Minority Leader of the Senate and -- the
3 Minority Leaders of both the Senate and the
4 Assembly will make one appointment and it's at
5 their discretion whom they appoint, so you would
6 have a maximum of five members on this advisory
7 board -- sorry, a minimum of five members of the
8 advisory word from the real estate industry
9 which is five out of 15 on the board, a maximum
10 of seven, which is still one less than half of
11 the members of the board.
12 We modeled this after the banking
13 board. In fact, we have more than -- we have
14 more members on the board who are not of that
15 industry than the banking -- than the bank
16 advisory committee has.
17 Very frankly, Mr. President, in
18 law already, if you check Section 442 (j) of the
19 Real Property Law, the Secretary of State
20 already has the authority to establish a com
21 mission, advisory commission of seven members,
22 all from the real estate industry. The
23 Secretary of State has not seen fit to do that
1281
1 and so we feel that really, she is -- this
2 committee or this advisory commission should be
3 established.
4 We believe that the state will
5 gain from the expertise given to the study of
6 the real estate industry that is necessitated by
7 the responsibilities of the Secretary of State.
8 We also have given certain powers -- I'm sorry,
9 we have not taken away from the Secretary of
10 State some powers that we feel should be solely
11 under her jurisdiction, and in the series of
12 amendments, or I should say the amendments that
13 we have made to the bill which I am -- I,
14 hopefully, will find in my desk but thus far I
15 have not -- we list those, the six specific
16 responsibilities which, again, will not come
17 under the jurisdiction or the domain of the
18 advisory committee. They will continue to -
19 they will continue to be solely -- solely under
20 the administration of the Secretary of State.
21 I'm speaking specifically of some
22 of the problems in listing that have occurred
23 down particularly in the New York City area. We
1282
1 do not give that, the administration of that or
2 the implementation or promulgation of rules to
3 the new commission. We continue to give that
4 solely to the Secretary of State. That was one
5 of the objections people had to the bill last
6 year.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
10 President.
11 There is a memorandum from the
12 Department of State in opposition to the
13 legislation and it was filed last year on the
14 "A" print, and I'm informed by our counsel that
15 they contacted the Department and they are still
16 opposed to the "B" print.
17 The Department filed a fact sheet
18 last year as to a number of states which have
19 these boards; apparently they are underwhelmed
20 by the concept. For example, in Ohio they point
21 out that all -- and they have the word "all"
22 underlined -- decisions made by the real estate
23 board favor the real estate industry and there
1283
1 are questions in their mind as to whether or not
2 this board will do anything more than be a
3 service to the real estate industry.
4 I would make the point that,
5 while I believe the "B" print, Senator Daly,
6 gives the Governor eight people -- appointments
7 -- out of the 14 and theoretically gives the
8 Governor the majority, I would imagine that, if
9 the Governor's Department of State is this much
10 opposed to it, that there is very little chance
11 that the Governor would sign it, even though it
12 has a majority -- he has the majority of the
13 appointments.
14 I would also point out that there
15 is opposition by the Department of Consumer
16 Protection. Again, I don't know how realistic
17 this bill becomes when we have that kind of
18 opposition from two heads of two agencies in the
19 department.
20 But let me say this, Senator
21 Daly. I can understand you wanting to proceed
22 with the bill, and I respect that. You are
23 certainly a person who gives the greatest amount
1284
1 of courtesy and you have a right to proceed.
2 The only thing I can do in rebuttal, I think,
3 Senator Daly, is to read the rather short
4 letter, and encourage you to interrupt me
5 whenever you want, if there is a response to
6 something that is said in the letter that you
7 think is incorrect.
8 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Daly.
11 SENATOR DALY: The letter is from
12 whom?
13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I -- and
14 it's short. It's not a filibuster, Senator.
15 The letter is from the state Consumer Protection
16 Board and, as I say, I would like to -
17 SENATOR DALY: May I, Mr.
18 President -- may I just make one comment? I'd be
19 delighted to hear the letter. Isn't it
20 interesting, in response to the bill I've
21 carried now for a year, I've received no memo or
22 letters in opposition from the Consumer
23 Protection Board. I've received no letters of
1285
1 opposition this year from the Secretary of
2 State. The only letter, the only memo in
3 opposition I have is from NYPIRG.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator
5 Daly, as I say to you, you're a gentleman,
6 you've extended courtesy to me, and I try to
7 give it. That's why I said to you, the memo
8 that we have from the Secretary of State is from
9 last year, but we -- and I made that clear. We
10 did call them and they say that, as far as
11 they're concerned, use the memo, they continue
12 their opposition to the theory.
13 Now, this says -- and by the way,
14 this letter, while last year's letter does refer
15 to the "B" print, that's why I think it's
16 relevant.
17 The Consumer Protection Board
18 strongly opposes the bill which would estab
19 lish... real estate board within the Department
20 of State with oversight authority over the
21 activities of licensed real estate brokers. We
22 also oppose the proposed "B" version of this
23 bill now being circulated, under which the board
1286
1 would be provided the authority to promulgate
2 regulations to effectuate the purposes of
3 Article 12-a, the state statute regulating real
4 estate brokers, to prescribe the subjects to be
5 tested in licensing examinations and to make
6 recommendations to the Secretary of State as to
7 the validity of all real estate brokerage
8 enforcement proceedings under Section 442 (e) of
9 the Real Property Law.
10 The creation of this board, which
11 would consist of eight licensed real estate
12 brokers, six public members and the Secretary of
13 State, would unnecessarily impede the adminis
14 tration of Article 12-a.
15 Now, is that -
16 SENATOR DALY: Excuse me, Mr.
17 President.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Is that paragraph
19 accurate?
20 SENATOR DALY: No. Would the
21 Senator read that last sentence, please.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, be glad to,
23 Senator. This says: The creation that it
1287
1 envisions is eight licensed real estate
2 brokers....
3 SENATOR DALY: That is not
4 correct.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Excuse me. Excuse
6 me... six public members and the Secretary of
7 State.
8 SENATOR DALY: That is not
9 correct.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Now, the balance
11 under your bill is what?
12 SENATOR DALY: The balance, the
13 maximum seven from the industry, minimum five.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Maximum is seven.
15 SENATOR DALY: Maximum of seven,
16 total board is 15, including the Secretary of
17 State, so those figures are incorrect.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah.
19 SENATOR DALY: We do give a
20 balance of power, as you say, we give the
21 balance to the non-members of the industry in
22 this bill.
23 SENATOR GOLD: All right. So it
1288
1 would be seven, seven and one, is that it?
2 SENATOR DALY: Seven and eight.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Now, it goes so.
4 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, may
5 I correct -- it could well be five and ten.
6 SENATOR GOLD: I understand.
7 SENATOR DALY: And I submit, Mr.
8 President, the fact that they didn't even have
9 the right -- they didn't have the right figures
10 in that letter clearly makes their letter
11 questionable indeed.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator
15 Daly, it's my practice to -- to want to have
16 open files to everybody, and that's why I
17 offered you the letter.
18 SENATOR DALY: Much appreciated.
19 SENATOR GOLD: But the point is,
20 if they're opposed to it, I want to make it
21 available to you and give you this opportunity.
22 Under the recommendation *** the state of New
23 York would become a recognized leader in the
1289
1 regulation of the real estate industry. For
2 example, through the Department's efforts ***
3 reform legislation was enacted in 1991 which
4 addressed industry abuses concerning proper
5 disclosure of agency relationships by brokers
6 and agents.
7 SENATOR DALY: May I comment on
8 that?
9 SENATOR GOLD: Of course, I don't
10 mind you -
11 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, the
12 Senator said I could interrupt him or I
13 certainly wouldn't do it otherwise.
14 SENATOR GOLD: That's all right.
15 SENATOR DALY: That disclosure
16 bill talked about 1991 was a product of the
17 Senate, was a result of two years negotiation
18 with the Senate. I was chairman and I handled
19 that bill also; in fact, I sponsored that bill,
20 Mr. President, and we did negotiate that bill
21 and that's why the bill is being commended by so
22 many people as one of the best disclosure laws
23 in the country, and the original proposal that
1290
1 we had to work with was -- has been or was at
2 that time roundly condemned.
3 So I do believe that that use of
4 that law as an example of the work of the
5 Secretary of State leaves something out and that
6 is the work of this house and, frankly, my
7 committee, Senator Waldon, as, frankly, a
8 minority member. I'm very proud of that bill,
9 that law, Mr. President, by the way, and again I
10 think that adds to the ammunition I have here in
11 defense of this bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Well, let's be
15 honest. The biggest ammunition you got is
16 Runes. You got a guy with a brain over there.
17 SENATOR DALY: I'm moving him to
18 the back.
19 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, I admire
20 Mr. Runes. Mr. President, the -- I don't think
21 there's any indication here that credit is not
22 due to the Legislature. Whenever there's a law
23 obviously we participate. I just think that
1291
1 they're making the point that they have done
2 some things that are responsive and, in all
3 fairness, if they recommend it to the Governor
4 and work with you and this became a law, I don't
5 think we should ignore that.
6 At any rate, the Department has
7 also continuously fought to protect the rights
8 of consumers in such transactions by vigorously
9 enforcing state law against brokers engaged in
10 illegal and unethical business practices.
11 SENATOR DALY: That signed by
12 Gail Shaffer, Mr. President?
13 SENATOR GOLD: Pardon me?
14 SENATOR DALY: That signed by
15 Gail Shaffer?
16 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, this is
17 from the Consumer Protection Board. Yeah.
18 The Board also believes that
19 circumventing the Department's regulatory
20 authority by the establishment of a board acting
21 under the substantial control and influence -
22 now, here again, you say that the voting is 7-7
23 -- would seriously erode the present protection
1292
1 afforded consumers. The memorandum in support
2 provided no justification for why the board is
3 needed in addition to the present board's
4 construction.
5 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I
6 do not say the present balance on this bill
7 gives you a 7-7 vote. I say this bill gives you
8 a maximum 7, maximum 7 from the industry and 8
9 outside the industry, so I want to correct that
10 immediately. We are making sure that the
11 balance of power on this commission lies not in
12 the members of the industry but other members of
13 the board.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Now the
15 last paragraph, if I may. Further, the bill is
16 not workable and technically deficient in
17 numerous ways. For example, section 442 (k) 4
18 would require the board to review complaints
19 made to the Secretary of State in any
20 enforcement proceedings under section 442 (e) of
21 the Real Property Law and empower the board to
22 make recommendations as to the validity of the
23 complaint.
1293
1 It says, since the board would be
2 a totally voluntary entity without staff, the
3 procedure would unnecessarily delay the
4 Department's complaint procedures. Further
5 proposed subdivision 442 (k) 6 of the Real
6 Property Law will permit the real estate board
7 to fix all fees required by this section, but no
8 such fees are established by this section.
9 Even if we were not opposed to
10 the basic premise of the bill, numerous
11 technical deficiencies would need to be
12 addressed before the bill could be given serious
13 consideration by the Legislature.
14 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, on
15 the last -- the last paragraph, you know, the
16 question is saying, I should say the writer is
17 stating that there are technical deficiencies in
18 the bill which he doesn't list but, first, Mr.
19 President, the fact that they didn't even know
20 the number of people who are appointed to the
21 board, from where they come, clearly proves that
22 they didn't do their home work, Mr. President.
23 SENATOR GOLD: No.
1294
1 SENATOR DALY: Or they -
2 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Daly.
3 SENATOR DALY: They were talking
4 about another bill.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Daly, Mr.
6 President, I want to be fair. I told you this
7 was dated June of '93, and they talked about a
8 proposed "B" version that they thought they
9 saw. Now, I made that clear, Senator Daly.
10 Now -
11 SENATOR DALY: Well, Mr.
12 President.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Now, excuse me,
14 and then I'll -
15 SENATOR DALY: Excuse me.
16 SENATOR GOLD: As to the number
17 from the board, or not the board, you clarified
18 that, and I respect that, but now this whole
19 last paragraph has nothing to do with the
20 numbers. The last paragraph I read dealt with
21 the complaint process.
22 Now, if that is not accurately
23 reflecting your bill, then I'd appreciate it if
1295
1 you'd correct me on that, but if you want me to
2 reread it, this has nothing to do now with the
3 number of members on the board. It says that
4 under the enforcement procedure the board is
5 empowered to make recommendations as to the
6 validity of the complaints. Is that accurate or
7 not?
8 SENATOR DALY: Well, Mr.
9 President, I don't -- what line of the bill are
10 you talking about, Senator?
11 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator,
12 again, it's only a few lines. Let me read it
13 and, as I say, I have certainly no objection to
14 your counsel working with you as we all have.
15 And further this bill is
16 unworkable and technically deficient in numerous
17 ways. For example, proposed subdivision 442 (k)
18 4 would require the board to review complaints
19 made to the Secretary of State in any
20 enforcement proceeding under section 442 (e) of
21 the Real Property Law and empower the board to
22 make recommendations as to the validity of the
23 complaint.
1296
1 SENATOR DALY: That's not section
2 4. Have you got the bill there, Senator?
3 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
4 SENATOR DALY: Turn to page 2,
5 line 53. What you're reading, I don't -- I'll
6 read it to you, Senator: Administration/
7 enforcement. The Department of State shall have
8 the power, and its duty shall be to administer
9 and enforce the laws and regulations of the
10 state relating to those activities regarding ***
11 real estate industry required under this section
12 and require its agents to bring prosecutions for
13 unauthorized and unlawful practices.
14 That has nothing to do with what
15 you read. This is the Department of State. It
16 does not refer, that section or that paragraph,
17 to the commission. It refers directly to the
18 Department of State.
19 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Well,
20 Senator, the -- you -- let me ask you this
21 question -- let me ask you this question on the
22 bill. Is there -- in this bill, if a complaint
23 is made -- in this bill, if a complaint is made
1297
1 to the Secretary of State -
2 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President.
3 SENATOR GOLD: -- does the board
4 -- would the board have the power to -
5 SENATOR DALY: Would the Senator
6 yield to me just for a minute? Let me emphasize
7 the fact that what you read is not in the bill.
8 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
9 SENATOR DALY: It -- again, may I
10 finish?
11 It again demonstrates, Mr.
12 President, that whoever wrote that letter,
13 whoever wrote the other memo in opposition
14 didn't know what they were talking about. Now,
15 if they had their facts as wrong as indicated by
16 Senator Gold's reading of the memo, his reading
17 of the letter before, that dealt with the
18 numbers of people who are appointed and from
19 where they will come, then, Mr. President, I
20 submit to you that this is really an exercise in
21 futility right now.
22 We're dealing with a piece of
23 paper that means nothing. There's no truth in
1298
1 it. They don't know what the bill is; so why
2 should it be used in the debate on this floor?
3 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Will
4 the Senator yield to a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Daly yields, I think.
7 SENATOR DALY: Yes, I will.
8 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
9 SENATOR DALY: I think. Well, I
10 question -- I'll tell the Senator privately
11 later on what I'm thinking.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
13 last section.
14 SENATOR DALY: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 SENATOR GOLD: All right, Mr. -
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: I'm
18 sorry, Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: That's right.
20 SENATOR DALY: I guess this is
21 what's called warm-up time, Mr. President. We
22 have another heavy bill that we're going to work
23 on.
1299
1 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator Daly,
2 I have papers given me by heads of departments
3 and we are told that they continue with some
4 objections. From the point of view of the
5 members on this side, they have consistently
6 voted on bills on a bill-by-bill basis based
7 upon the fact that we can clarify some of the
8 issues and maybe the comments you've been
9 making, Senator Daly, have been gaining you
10 votes.
11 I hope -- I hope for your sake
12 maybe, you know, that might happen, but Senator,
13 what I -- what I -- the proposed "B" print that
14 they were talking about back in June, apparently
15 is not the "B" print before us.
16 SENATOR DALY: Obviously,
17 obviously.
18 SENATOR GOLD: I'm delighted.
19 I'm delighted. But the one thing I'm not
20 delighted about is, just forgetting about
21 whether or not this memo was accurate or not
22 accurate, the question occurs, does the board,
23 under the bill we're talking about today -
1300
1 forget the memo, does the bill we're talking
2 about today give this board the power to make
3 recommendations on the validity of complaints
4 that are filed pursuant to the complaint
5 process?
6 SENATOR DALY: Oh, I would hope
7 so, Mr. President. I would hope that this board
8 would make many recommendations to the Secretary
9 of State, some of which she will follow and some
10 of which she will not.
11 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
12 SENATOR DALY: May I also point
13 out, if I may go oh, finish.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sure.
15 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President,
16 while Senator is talking, getting advice from
17 his counsel, may I also add that you talked
18 about the importance of receiving these letters,
19 these memos from department heads, and I would
20 submit, Mr. President, if this is -- these
21 department heads send such communications, such
22 missiles to the Senate as irresponsibly written
23 and investigated as these memos and letters are,
1301
1 then I'd question their competence to remain as
2 department heads and perhaps indeed the Governor
3 should investigate both of these department
4 heads and certainly look into some of the
5 letters they've been sending us on other -
6 other legislation. Maybe they're just letters
7 from the past and they will continue in the
8 future, and I'm glad it's been raised by Senator
9 Gold for that purpose.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill, I've
14 just been asked by a very distinguished member
15 who I respect greatly and whose debate is always
16 so incisive, so important on every single bill
17 that -- whether this is all worth it, and I
18 don't know whether it's worth it or not, Senator
19 Daly.
20 The bottom line is, the way -
21 whether this memo which was written in antici
22 pation is accurate in the changes or not, the
23 bottom line here is you're recommending a board
1302
1 in the department where the department tells you
2 they don't want it, the consumer protection
3 agency tells you they don't want it. It hasn't
4 worked in other states, and you're giving,
5 Senator, as I see it a mandate.
6 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President,
7 will the Senator yield to a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Will you
9 yield to a question?
10 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, no.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Gold refuses to yield.
13 SENATOR GOLD: No, only because
14 it's a matter of life and death. If I yielded
15 and we continue, I'm going to get shot.
16 The point is, Senator Daly, that
17 you appear to be giving powers to a -- to a
18 voluntary group without staff and whatever that
19 goes into the complaint process. I would have
20 preferred to give you this letter, have you come
21 back tomorrow and see me informally and say,
22 "Senator, it's a different bill or whatever."
23 At any rate, there has now been
1303
1 what my distinguished colleague from Rochester,
2 both of whom I respect greatly, a free and open
3 debate. Last section.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
9 roll.
10 Senator Padavan to explain his
11 vote.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: To explain my
13 vote.
14 First, I'd like to thank the
15 sponsor for having taken the original bill and
16 done a lot of things to respond to some valid,
17 in my view valid, concerns that I've expressed
18 and others had expressed regard to this
19 legislation. But despite those excellent
20 efforts, I'm still going to oppose this bill.
21 The real estate industry is not
22 homogeneous. Unfortunately, in certain parts of
23 the state, particularly in the parts that I
1304
1 represent, we have a component in this industry
2 that can best be described as scurrilous, with
3 no regard to community -- community stability,
4 are constantly involved in block busting,
5 disruptive practices, and cause me and my office
6 to almost weekly write the Secretary of State
7 about one complaint or the other.
8 Now, if we can isolate that group
9 from the rest of the state, there would be
10 nothing wrong with this bill but, unfortunately,
11 we can't and, therefore, there are components of
12 this bill which bring the fox into the chicken
13 coop, and I don't want my complaints to come
14 before this board. I mail too many of them
15 which come from my constituents, who are
16 victimized by the activities of certain
17 unscrupulous real estate agents who, as I said,
18 before don't give a hang about the community in
19 which they make a good living. All they're
20 interested in, in too many cases, is that
21 commission and nothing else. They are a small
22 number, but they do a great deal of damage which
23 is why, in Queens County, the Secretary of State
1305
1 and her predecessors, including the Governor,
2 have found it necessary to enforce non
3 solicitation orders and non-geographic
4 non-solicitation bans, and the simple fact that
5 this industry in that part of the state was
6 causing so much harm; and while this bill is
7 much improved over the original print, it still
8 provides an opportunity for some of these
9 individuals to be put in a position of
10 undermining those efforts which I and others
11 continue to expend in order to control the
12 negative side of the real estate industry in the
13 areas that I represent.
14 So, for that reason, Mr.
15 President, I vote in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
17 Padavan in the negative.
18 Senator Daly to explain his
19 vote.
20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I
21 do believe and certainly in respect to my
22 colleague and certain of the allegations that
23 he's made and certain opposition in the past,
1306
1 but I submit to my colleague that this bill will
2 help us in policing and preventing those
3 practices because we'll have -- as he says, he
4 uses the term "fox in the chicken house", we
5 will have experts in the real estate industry
6 serving on this commission who will be able to
7 advise the Secretary of State and make her aware
8 of possible misuse, I should say abuses in and
9 among real estate operators.
10 I also remind the Senator that
11 his primary concern deals with the non
12 solicitation "cease and desist" law and in the
13 amendment to the bill we have taken that out
14 completely of the regulatory process under the
15 new advisory commission, and we have given it
16 right back to the Secretary of State, period,
17 and I think that act in itself will -- will, I
18 should say should help many of my colleagues to
19 support the bill.
20 But, again, let me say in
21 conclusion, Mr. President, that I see nothing
22 wrong whatsoever in bringing experts of an
23 industry into the regulatory process. Who knows
1307
1 more about a given industry than those who live
2 with it every day? Each and every one of us,
3 when we want to become expert in an area, we
4 know we can't be expert in every area, so we
5 bring in to us, into our offices, we talk to
6 those who spend day after day in that business
7 and we use them as advisers and we've done this
8 in the banking -- with the banking commission
9 for years.
10 That worked well, and, Senator
11 Gold, again the last -- he stated that it hasn't
12 worked in other states. He read it in a memo.
13 We know what that memo was worth, don't we,
14 because in completing the statement it misstated
15 the legislation that is before us.
16 This is good for the industry.
17 This is good for the state and it's good for the
18 people who have to deal with real estate
19 operators because the Secretary of State will
20 have at her command seven -- five to seven
21 members of the real estate industry, the balance
22 -- the balance because of the eight members,
23 including herself, who are not in the real
1308
1 estate industry.
2 Mr. President, this is good
3 legislation and demands the support of this
4 house.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Daly in the affirmative.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my
8 vote, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Dollinger to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my
12 vote. The Journal Clerk perhaps should make an
13 entry that I concur with Senator Daly, and I
14 think that the -- my experience in Monroe County
15 where I have been experienced with this
16 particular agency in real estate deals, the real
17 estate board has done a very good job of self
18 policing, has done a very good job of complaint
19 taking, dealing with complaints, giving evidence
20 at least in our part of the state, and
21 particularly the 54th District. The problems of
22 the real estate industry have been attended to
23 by the real estate agency.
1309
1 That gives me some confidence,
2 although there may be a question of how much
3 control the real estate industry has on this
4 board, which I will leave to others in this
5 state, but I'm convinced that well-meaning real
6 estate agents can be a part of this decision
7 making and recommendations in this state.
8 So I have that confidence, and so
9 again, strange as it may seem, I am concurring
10 and voting with my colleague from western New
11 York.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Dollinger in the affirmative.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Perhaps a
15 notation by the Journal Clerk would be
16 sufficient.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
18 Results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
20 the negative -- those recorded in the negative
21 on Calendar Number 261 are Senators Galiber,
22 Gold, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez,
23 Montgomery, Onorato, Padavan, Santiago, and
1310
1 Stavisky. Ayes 48, nays 11.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Leichter.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
8 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
9 the negative on Calendar Number 330, please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
11 objection.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 263, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
14 5080-A, an act to amend the Family Court Act, in
15 relation to certain records of juvenile
16 delinquents.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 Padavan.
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 This bill would mandate the
23 fingerprinting of juvenile offenders for all
1311
1 felonies. Currently we have an unfortunate
2 problem in this state that any youngster may
3 commit and be arrested for a Class D or E felony
4 and is precluded from being fingerprinted.
5 There are, of course, a variety of offenses that
6 would fall into those categories, everything
7 from a loaded firearm or use of one; assaults,
8 sexual contact with a child under the age of 11,
9 and so on, which would put such a youngster in
10 the society which we are obviously trying to
11 protect in a position of not having any record
12 of that individual, that young person, having
13 committed that crime; and so repeat offenders
14 would go undetected, which also has a negative
15 component when you think in terms of the need to
16 refer such a youngster as a youngster-at-risk
17 for appropriate treatment, if necessary, but
18 certainly appropriate action by a court of
19 competent jurisdiction. And so the need for
20 fingerprinting to develop a criminal history
21 unfortunately now has become a matter of
22 necessity.
23 This bill is sponsored in the
1312
1 Assembly by Assemblyman Feldman. It has been
2 written about in a number of articles and
3 supported by such writings and is the reason we
4 have it before us today.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Waldon.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
9 Senator yield to a question or two?
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Padavan yields.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I'm
14 troubled a bit by this approach because
15 historically those less than age 16 have not
16 been treated with fingerprinting and mug shots,
17 et cetera, because this society has felt that
18 they -- they had a chance of rehabilitation or
19 going in a different direction or that they were
20 at such a tender age that they should not be so
21 treated.
22 In preparation of this bill, have
23 you looked at that from its historic perspective
1313
1 in America?
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator,
3 obviously we've looked at it from historical
4 perspective and obviously this is not something
5 that we enter into with great joy. It has
6 become a matter of necessity. There is a
7 provision in this bill which states that, when a
8 youth has been fingerprinted, if this became
9 law, after one year of adjudication as a
10 juvenile delinquent, the fingerprints are
11 destroyed.
12 The reason there is that we would
13 not want to stigmatize that youngster for the
14 rest of his or her life, and we take that into
15 consideration. The fact remains, Senator,
16 there's one article I read here written by a man
17 by the name of Herbert, talks about a youngster
18 who, I think it was 12 years of age, walked up
19 to someone with a loaded revolver, held it to
20 his head, pulled the hammer; fortunately the
21 round didn't go off. A policeman was on the
22 scene, arrested him. Certain efforts were made,
23 the child was remanded to his parents, and so
1314
1 on. Two weeks later he did the same thing, only
2 this time the weapon did go off. The person was
3 killed. There was no record, and that
4 youngster, by the way, if memory is correct, had
5 a series of other incidents of a criminal nature
6 as well.
7 So, unfortunately, we do the
8 youngster no service and certainly we don't have
9 society protecting itself from such actions when
10 we shield that individual, that young person,
11 from the identity of having had this
12 background. We're not talking about minor
13 offenses here. We're talking about serious acts
14 of violence, and I think it's clear that with
15 72,000 arrests in this state last year of young
16 people in this age category, for such acts of
17 violence, that we've reached the point where,
18 unfortunately, and I mean that unfortunately, we
19 must keep a record of these offenses so that we
20 will be able to deal with these juveniles who
21 are at risk and simultaneously protect
22 society.
23 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue,
1315
1 Mr. President?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
3 Waldon.
4 SENATOR WALDON: If the Senator
5 would continue. But, Senator, don't we have a
6 very exacting record-keeping process now because
7 the juvenile is arrested, the officer fills out
8 the appropriate arrest records, there's a record
9 at the precinct, and the crime that's of a
10 certain nature, certainly is recorded in every
11 conceivable way, and that is retrievable.
12 The only difference that you
13 would now require is that there be fingerprints
14 for this particular situation.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Unless there is
16 a conviction of a serious crime, there is no
17 record, Senator, that can be retrieved. If a
18 youngster such as the one I described before
19 where there was no conviction, where for some
20 reason or other the child was remanded back to
21 the parents or some entity and that youngster is
22 arrested at some subsequent point in time
23 committing another act of violence, there is no
1316
1 record to refer to to say that we have a
2 youngster here who has a history of violence,
3 and that's the reason for the bill.
4 There is no other answer to that
5 question. Sometimes these kids are arrested.
6 As you know, they'll give a false name, and that
7 is not uncommon either. The sheer number,
8 72,000 last year, tells us that we have a
9 problem. This bill's not going to solve that
10 problem. I'm not trying to mislead anybody, but
11 certainly I think we need this tool at our
12 disposal.
13 Youngsters today, we read day
14 after day are coming into schools with weapons
15 of all kinds; we're having to put metal
16 detectors at the entrances of our schools,
17 something unheard of when you and I were growing
18 up. Teachers in -- are frightened in the
19 schools because of this kind of violence. It's
20 the realities of the world we're living in.
21 This measure, hopefully, will
22 help.
23 SENATOR WALDON: Last question.
1317
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Waldon.
3 SENATOR WALDON: If I may,
4 Senator, if by "no record" you mean nothing
5 retrievable under MUSOOS or any other finger
6 print retrieving device -
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's
8 correct.
9 SENATOR WALDON: I accept and
10 understand that, but when someone is arrested
11 there's a recordation in the regular logs of the
12 precinct. The detectives have the entries in
13 their memo books and, from my experience working
14 the streets of the city of New York, when
15 someone has done something like this, one, you
16 don't release him until you identify the parent
17 or some adult for recognizance purposes even if
18 they're juvenile delinquent and there is an
19 ongoing record somewhere, maybe not computerized
20 and retrievable as fingerprints would be, but
21 there's a record somewhere.
22 So I think there's a bit of a
23 redundancy. I understand, truly I understand
1318
1 the nature of the violence in this city, meaning
2 New York City, and in the state, across the
3 state.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: May I respond
5 to your point, Senator.
6 Just from the memo, and I think
7 it's important for you to understand this and
8 others that may be listening. It says: Under
9 current law, a juvenile arrested for committing
10 a Class D or E felony offense may not -- may not
11 be fingerprinted. These felonies include such
12 serious offenses as possessing a loaded firearm,
13 assaulting a person and causing serious physical
14 injury, and/or having sexual contact with a
15 child under the age of 11. As a result, each
16 time the juvenile is arrested, he or she appears
17 to be a first offender eligible for lenient
18 treatment. The shielding effect of these
19 provisions follows a youth to adulthood. There,
20 despite numerous felony adjudications, the
21 juvenile can receive youthful offender treatment
22 or have a juvenile offender case removed to
23 Family Court because he or she appears to have
1319
1 no prior record, unless, of course, as you said,
2 you find that log in that precinct that someone
3 remembers.
4 You've got a big city, big
5 state. That can happen, but it doesn't
6 normally.
7 SENATOR WALDON: On the bill, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
10 Waldon.
11 SENATOR WALDON: I believe I
12 understand what Senator Padavan is attempting to
13 achieve here. I recognize the seriousness of
14 72,000 violent acts by children. We are living
15 in troubled times, but I just think there's an
16 adequate methodology to follow the young people
17 and that this -- this fingerprinting process
18 just may be too much, too overwhelming, too
19 overburdened, overburdening -- overburdening
20 young people.
21 I just find it very difficult on
22 many levels to accept, so I will have to vote
23 against this.
1320
1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4 Gold.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
6 respect very greatly the comments of Senator
7 Waldon and his concerns, but I must say that
8 I've always thought that we go too far in the
9 way we create fingerprinting as itself being
10 this horrifying thing when you realize that
11 lawyers are fingerprinted and people who go into
12 different kinds of government service are
13 fingerprinted and, as I've said before, there
14 are parents who fingerprint their children at a
15 young age just to help in identification if, God
16 forbid, the child gets lost, and they don't
17 think that they are stigmatizing their child.
18 I believe that privacy is very
19 important and there is a place for privacy and
20 that if someone has been in difficulty as a
21 youngster, been given youthful offender
22 treatment or whatever, that that privacy should
23 be very, very important to their whole life.
1321
1 Indeed, if somebody is a juvenile offender and
2 gets in trouble and straightens out their life
3 and gets the break that the law provides for
4 them, I think that that should be respected by
5 everybody in privacy.
6 Having said that, I am proud that
7 a number of years ago, I sponsored what is now a
8 law that takes all of the records from places
9 like New York City and centralizes them in New
10 York City, so you don't have a situation where a
11 youngster gets into trouble in the Bronx and
12 then goes to Queens and Brooklyn and constantly
13 is treated as a first offender.
14 I also think that we all get
15 horrified when we read in the papers some of the
16 situations where, for example, it doesn't deal
17 with the children, but someone has had 30
18 suspensions of their license and then commits
19 vehicular homicide, say how come they're still
20 driving around with 30 suspensions?
21 We have this where you have
22 people still in the system, and you see 18
23 priors and whatever. I don't see anything wrong
1322
1 with this bill from the point of view that
2 someone gets identified in the system and if
3 somebody has been in trouble and is still
4 getting into trouble, we ought to know about
5 it. At that point, we can talk about help, we
6 can talk about treatment. Maybe we ought to
7 just talk about jail and punishment, but I think
8 that we have to know.
9 Today many of us were visited by
10 schools, parents, teachers, the Board of Ed.
11 people were up here, and one of the terrible
12 things about the New York City school system
13 today is the violence which apparently even the
14 students say is their number one concern, and
15 you can't have wonderful children of all racial,
16 ethnic backgrounds, trying to go to school.
17 Parents are concerned, parents work, they want
18 their kids to have a better life, and there's
19 the two percent, five percent, whatever it is,
20 ten percent who go there with guns and whatever
21 who were destroying the opportunity of the other
22 children, and I see nothing wrong with this
23 bill.
1323
1 One thing about the bill, to tell
2 you the truth, which I don't understand but
3 obviously it's not going to change, is why it
4 even has to be destroyed if the youngster is not
5 in trouble for a year. If you start at 13 and
6 you go a year 14, then you get in trouble at 14,
7 go a year to 15, I don't even know why we have
8 to destroy prints at that point. But it's in
9 the bill and, Senator Padavan, fine.
10 But I think we have to get over
11 the hurdle that in the criminal justice system
12 we are somehow tainting people forever merely by
13 doing a fingerprinting, and the identification
14 process. I see nothing wrong with it. As a
15 matter of fact, maybe if we have fingerprinting
16 and a kid has been in trouble and gets in
17 trouble again, maybe there's a few kids we could
18 save who are not being saved because we don't
19 know at some point under the present system how
20 much involved they really are.
21 So I don't change my views on
22 helping these kids. I don't change my views on
23 youthful offender treatment, and I don't change
1324
1 my views on giving them some opportunity even if
2 they are incarcerated, but I do not see where
3 the identification process hurts them if their
4 privacy is properly maintained, and I'm going to
5 support the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Galiber.
8 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 Senator Gold and I usually are
11 headed in the same direction. So this issue,
12 however, we part company momentarily.
13 This piece of legislation starts
14 opening up with the fingerprinting of youngsters
15 in the spirit in which we give youngsters
16 another shot, so to speak, is what the Family
17 Court is really all about.
18 Now, we all recognize that we're
19 living in some horrendous times, that we've lost
20 perhaps a generation, if you will, of
21 youngsters, but the spirit of what the Family
22 Court is all about and as the sponsor indicated,
23 the stigma that is attached to fingerprints -
1325
1 and we're going to get some more bills this year
2 on fingerprinting -- and it depends on how you
3 want to use those fingerprints, what is the
4 spirit in which you fingerprint folks for and
5 this piece of legislation would say that we are
6 fingerprinting those persons in felony
7 categories that if, in a year's period of time,
8 that person or if something happens we would
9 then destroy those fingerprints.
10 That's not so. This is part of a
11 movement that some of us, those of us who have
12 been here a long time, had warned us about,
13 Orwellian in his 1984 society suggested what had
14 happened. 1984 came here in Albany and we said
15 absolutely nothing at all about it.
16 They've got youngsters with
17 serial numbers, and serial numbers, we just call
18 them Social Security numbers, almost before
19 they're born. They've got high tech' which can
20 tell you what color socks you had on last year.
21 We are focusing in on a group of youngsters,
22 small in number, but powerful and horrendous. I
23 wish we would just spend part of our time
1326
1 talking about those goods kids. We're talking
2 about the few in number.
3 Now, Senator, nobody has any
4 stronger feeling about what's happening out in
5 the streets of New York than I and contra to
6 some of the thoughts of those of my colleagues
7 on both sides of the aisle who suggest that
8 because we have a different view we have a
9 different vision or we recognize what the end
10 results may be, that we're soft on crime, we
11 excuse what happens in our community, and that's
12 not so because the recipients, if you will, of
13 all these, the violence that occurs in
14 comparison to the sponsor's neighborhood, my
15 neighborhood and some others, are inundated with
16 this kind of negative activity.
17 But the spirit of what the Family
18 Court Act, as recently as 1962, as we measure
19 history, was with a view toward giving the
20 youngster another opportunity. The Youthful
21 Offender Law that has been mentioned with a view
22 toward giving someone another opportunity.
23 Someone once said that we have a
1327
1 learning experience in our society and we learn
2 by reading and writing, listening and making
3 mistakes and those of us who are parents only
4 hope that the mistakes that we -- our children
5 find themselves in or participating in are such
6 that are not serious enough to harm them for the
7 rest of their life.
8 Senator Padavan, this bill has a
9 potential for harming a youngster for the rest
10 of his or her life. We said in the piece of
11 legislation that, if the fingerprints are
12 destroyed, so be it. That saves the possibility
13 of an admitted stigma. But, Senator, once you
14 are fingerprinted, those prints stay on file.
15 Even a youthful offender fingerprinting process
16 if you're subsequently arrested show up on the
17 NYSIIS sheet. There is absolutely no way that
18 we can force the F.B.I. who will also have a
19 copy of those fingerprints to give those
20 fingerprints back even if we do, in fact,
21 destroy them.
22 Senator, this is a -- not a mean
23 spirited piece of legislation. We all recognize
1328
1 where you are coming from, but I suggest that
2 fingerprinting youngsters at the age of 12 and
3 13 and 14 is not the right way to go, that we're
4 headed in the wrong direction to solve a very
5 serious problem, that yet when we ascertain
6 where that problem is, we pinpoint that problem,
7 we come back and tell you where that problem is,
8 and all we need is a little help in terms of
9 putting the resources, whatever they may be,
10 into those neighborhoods and communities where
11 these problems are, so we can stop some of this
12 madness that's taking place in our communities.
13 Can't get the support, can't get the support.
14 So, Senator, I understand where
15 you're coming from. I understand why you have
16 put this piece of legislation in, but I think
17 there's a potential for damaging, and it's not a
18 bleeding heart approach, not a liberal approach,
19 it's not soft on crime approach. It's saying
20 that the spirit of what the Family Court Act is,
21 the spirit of what those of us who live in this
22 great country give the next person an
23 opportunity, this piece of legislation doesn't
1329
1 do that.
2 I don't know how to solve that
3 problem except to put those resources that I
4 mentioned before in those areas that we've
5 pinpointed where the violence occurs or to deal
6 with some of the core reasons why we have this
7 kind of violence. This is not the right way to
8 go. Once this person at the age of 12 or 13
9 will be fingerprinted, those prints will stay on
10 file for the rest of his or her life and, if we
11 don't change the direction that we're going in,
12 I dare say that the time is going to come much
13 sooner and it won't be a question of you will be
14 precluded from employment and schools because
15 you are convicted of a felony or convicted of
16 certain misdemeanors, you're going to be
17 excluded merely because you were fingerprinted.
18 Senator, those fingerprints will,
19 in fact, stay on file.
20 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote
21 no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
23 Goodman.
1330
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President,
2 since the matter of fingerprinting is going to
3 come before us in regard to several different
4 pieces of legislation, it's perhaps a timely
5 moment to express a point of view about this
6 which I don't think has been heard on this floor
7 or the floor of the other house.
8 My first set of fingerprints of
9 myself were taken when I entered the United
10 States Navy at the officer candidate school in
11 Newport, Rhode Island. I got through that
12 school and became a commissioned officer and
13 served in the Navy for 38 months, and for every
14 day of that 38 months I had a plasticized
15 identification card with my fingerprints on it.
16 The purpose of that was to make certain that
17 upon entering or leaving various military
18 facilities that I could be positively
19 identified.
20 The next occasion on which I had
21 my fingerprints taken were when President George
22 Bush appointed me to the National Endowment for
23 the Arts and, as part of my Federal Bureau of
1331
1 Investigation check, I had to go to my local
2 police station, give a complete set of
3 fingerprints which went on file with the F.B.I.,
4 went on file with the United States Senate,
5 which did an independent check. In short, a
6 widely disseminated set of fingerprints are now
7 on file in every imaginable government agency.
8 From my standpoint, the occasions
9 on which I was fingerprinted were occasions of
10 honor and of not anything that was in any way
11 negative, but rather had a positive aspect to
12 it.
13 Let's consider another problem
14 that arises with respect to identification.
15 Every now and then, we hear that a youngster has
16 been inadvertently switched in a hospital, given
17 to the wrong parents because of inadequate
18 identification of that youngster, and so there's
19 been suggested the notion that we should take,
20 if not fingerprints a footprint of every new
21 born child to be sure that there's no such
22 confusion.
23 I think the problem which
1332
1 confronts us on fingerprinting is that the whole
2 context of the matter has been a criminal one
3 rather than a recognition that there are a wide
4 variety of needs for identification, and I'll
5 just cite one more to you. Some years ago I
6 sponsored a piece of legislation in this house
7 which became law which brought about the
8 necessity of a check of people who are on a
9 government payroll and at the same time
10 receiving various types of government subsidies
11 with respect to presumed unemployment. By
12 comparing those who have jobs for pay with those
13 who did not have jobs for pay which was done
14 with the Social Security number, we were able to
15 save an estimated $167 million a year of
16 taxpayers' money.
17 Now, I submit to you that this
18 type of identification is in the public
19 interest. The problem, of course, is that in
20 the great majority of other cases, there's a
21 criminal identification context attaching to
22 fingerprinting and it seems to me that the
23 sooner we realize that this is not something
1333
1 which carries a negative onus, but something
2 which needs to be done to fulfill a whole
3 assortment of salutary purposes which benefit
4 society, does seem to me that we'll change our
5 view of this.
6 We now have new technology called
7 finger-imaging. Several of you may have been at
8 the demonstration that was given us here two
9 years ago when the new machinery which accom
10 plishes this was demonstrated and a number of us
11 put our hands in the machine and we were able to
12 be advised that our fingerprint identification
13 on this imaging was even more positive than the
14 old technique.
15 To sum up, Mr. President, I think
16 that this is a useful and, indeed in some cases,
17 a salutary development, one which should be
18 viewed not in the negative sense but in a
19 positive way which will help all of us if it's
20 enacted.
21 This is just the first of a
22 series of bills. I think we should give it our
23 affirmative support.
1334
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Galiber to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Thank
11 you, Mr. President.
12 On the same spirit of what my
13 colleague had mentioned, Senator, it's a
14 question of what you intend. We all know that
15 in certain countries they have tied yellow
16 ribbons on arms in certain countries, for
17 horrible, horrible reasons. That yellow band is
18 not the same one that we wrap around trees to
19 bring our soldiers home.
20 So it has to do, Mr. President,
21 what is the spirit; what is behind this notion
22 of fingerprinting more than the fact of the
23 distinction, and there's a volcanic difference
1335
1 from what my colleague has indicated.
2 I vote no.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4 Galiber in the negative. Results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 3,
6 Senators Galiber, Santiago and Waldon recorded
7 in the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
12 in behalf of Senator Marino, I offer up the
13 following committee assignment changes and ask
14 that they be filed at the Journal.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: They'll
16 be filed in the Journal, so ordered.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Any
18 housekeeping?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Any
20 motions, resolutions, housekeeping?
21 Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
23 there being no further business, I move that we
1336
1 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
3 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
4 (Whereupon at 4:52 p.m., the
5 Senate adjourned. )
6
7
8
9
10