Regular Session - March 22, 1994

                                                                 
1378

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                        March 22, 1994

        11                           4:27 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                        REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
1379

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Senators will please find

         4       their seats.

         5                      Please rise for the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                      Today, in the absence of visiting

        10       clergy, we will bow our heads for a moment of

        11       silent prayer.

        12                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        13       silence.)

        14                      Secretary will begin by reading

        15       the Journal.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        17       Monday, March 21.  The Senate met pursuant to

        18       adjournment.  Senator Farley in the chair upon

        19       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        20       Journal of Sunday, March 20, was read and

        21       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Hearing

        23       no objection, the Journal will stand approved as











                                                             
1380

         1       read.

         2                      The order of business:

         3                      Presentation of petitions.

         4                      Messages from the Assembly.

         5                      Messages from the Governor.

         6                      Reports of standing committees.

         7                      Reports of select committees.

         8                      Communications and reports from

         9       state officers.

        10                      Motions and resolutions.  Are

        11       there any motions on the floor?

        12                      Senator Spano.

        13                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.

        14       On behalf of Senator Johnson, would you please

        15       star Calendar 363 and Calendar 381.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bills are starred at the request of the sponsor.

        18                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.

        19       Move that the following bills be discharged from

        20       their respective committees, be recommitted, and

        21       strike the enacting clause:  Senate Print 2280.

        22       That is on behalf of Senator Cook.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
1381

         1       enacting clause is stricken, and the bills are

         2       recommitted to their respective committees.

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of the

         4       sponsor, can you remove the star on Calendar

         5       116, Senate Bill 6523A.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Star is

         7       removed at the request of the sponsor.

         8                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

         9       Senator Daly, on page 18, I offer the following

        10       amendments to Calendar 400, Senate Print 6794,

        11       and ask that the bill retain its place on the

        12       Third Reading Calendar.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

        14       objection, the bill will retain its place.

        15                      SENATOR SPANO:  On behalf of

        16       Senator Lack, on page 9, I offer the following

        17       amendments to Calendar 277, Senate Print 1065,

        18       ask that that bill retain its place on the Third

        19       Reading Calendar.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Is that

        21       Senator Saland or Senator Lack?

        22                      SENATOR SPANO:  Senator Lack.

        23       Senator Lack's bill, page 9, Calendar 277.











                                                             
1382

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

         2       you change that to Senator Saland?

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  Okay.  That last

         4       one was on behalf of Senator Saland.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         6       Correct.  Without objection.

         7                      Senator Johnson.  Are you just

         8       standing?

         9                      Senator Holland.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Please star my

        11       bill Calendar 406, Senate 4479A, please.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       bill is starred at the request of the sponsor.

        14                      Senator DiCarlo.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President.

        16       On behalf of the sponsor, Senate Bill Number 75,

        17       Senator Levy requests starring the bill.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is starred at the request of the sponsor.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        22       I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  All in











                                                             
1383

         1       favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar, say

         2       aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Those opposed, nay.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The Resolution Calendar is

         7       adopted.

         8                      270, the bill is starred.

         9                      Are there any other motions on

        10       the floor?

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Present, what's your

        13       pleasure?

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Gold.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, on behalf of

        18       Senator Paterson, I believe he has a privileged

        19       resolution at the desk.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  He has.

        21         Would you like the title read?

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, just read the

        23       title and then move.











                                                             
1384

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         2       Secretary will read the title of Senator

         3       Paterson's resolution.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

         5       Resolution, by Senator Paterson, commending

         6       Johnny Medina upon the occasion of his

         7       designation as the first place winner in the

         8       United States Savings Bond Division Third Annual

         9       National Student Poster Contest.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

        11       resolution, all those in favor, say aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Those opposed, nay.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      The resolution is adopted.

        16                      Senator Present.

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's take up

        18       the noncontroversial calendar, please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        20       Secretary will read the noncontroversial

        21       calendar.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

        23       Calendar Number 62, by Senator Velella, Senate











                                                             
1385

         1       Bill Number 6398A, an act to amend the Insurance

         2       Law, in relation to dental risk management

         3       programs.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       331, by Senator Kuhl.

        16                      SENATOR KUHL:  Lay it aside for

        17       the day, please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        19       aside for the day.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       337, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number

        22       2233A, an act to amend the Election Law, in

        23       relation to the hours for voting.











                                                             
1386

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       342, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3182,

         6       an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        13       aside.

        14                      SENATOR KUHL:  Lay it aside for

        15       the day.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        17       aside for the day.

        18                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes.  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Kuhl.

        22                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, I mistakenly

        23       laid aside Calendar Number 331 for the day.











                                                             
1387

         1       That one should have been called up instead of

         2       342.  342 I would like laid aside for the day,

         3       but the other one I would like called up.  The

         4       second time around is fine.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Without

         6       objection, would the Secretary call up 331,

         7       which we laid aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       331, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3718A,

        10       an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  331.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Party vote in the

        17       affirmative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
1388

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 13,

         6       Calendar Number 355, by Senator Tully, Senate

         7       Bill Number 4528B, an act to amend the Public

         8       Health Law, in relation to insuring the patient

         9       in making donations.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       356, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 4997,

        22       an act to amend the Public Health Law, the Penal

        23       Law and the Domestic Relations Law.











                                                             
1389

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       357, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 5605,

        13       an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

        14       relation to establishing a state council on

        15       hospice care.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.











                                                             
1390

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       358, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number -

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         7       aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       359, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 6861,

        10       authorize the city of Ogdensburg School District

        11       to finance the accumulated deficit.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       360, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 6862,











                                                             
1391

         1       in relation to authorizing the conveyance of

         2       certain real property of the city of Ogdensburg.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         8       the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       361, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 2038,

        15       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        16       relation to requiring the Commissioner of Motor

        17       Vehicles on annually issue a compilation of

        18       laws.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call











                                                             
1392

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       362, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         8       Assembly Bill Number 8918, Executive Law, in

         9       relation to the publication of certain notices.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       366, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        22       2363B, Social Services Law and the Public Health

        23       Law.











                                                             
1393

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       367, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        13       3428A, Family Court Act, in relation to fair

        14       treatment of child witnesses.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
1394

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       368, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

         4       4573A, Family Court Act, in relation to orders

         5       directing provision of services.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       369, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4866,

        18       an act to amend the Family Court Act.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call











                                                             
1395

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       370, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2989A,

         8       Uniform Justice Court Act.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       373, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number

        21       6574, Judiciary Law, in relation to appointment

        22       of grand jury stenographers.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read











                                                             
1396

         1       the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       374, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

        12       6665, Real Property Actions and Proceedings Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
1397

         1       375, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 67 -

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay

         4       that bill aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       376, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1181,

         7       Education Law, in relation to the funding of

         8       certain libraries.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       377, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number

        21       2293B, an act to amend the Education Law and the

        22       State Finance Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read











                                                             
1398

         1       the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       378, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        12       3755.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        15       aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       380, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        18       6130, authorizing an apportionment of state aid

        19       for certain capital expenditures.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  There

        21       is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk.

        22                      You can read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
1399

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       382, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2288.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       384, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number

        15       6388, an act to amend the Executive Law and the

        16       Criminal Procedure Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
1400

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       387, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number

         6       2063, Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to

         7       eligibility for youthful offender status.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       390, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 3106,

        20       an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        21       including the use of a firearm.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
1401

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       393, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number

        11       6379, an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation

        12       to the sale of controlled substances on school

        13       grounds.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
1402

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       395, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 6912.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       397, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3271A,

         8       Environmental Conservation Law, extending the

         9       shooting preserve season.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       398, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number 6521,

        22       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        23       Law.











                                                             
1403

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       399, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 6756,

        13       Environmental Conservation Law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
1404

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       401, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 66 -

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       407, by Senator Tully.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        10       aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       408, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6565,

        13       an act to amend the Social Services Law and

        14       Chapter 710 of the Laws of 1988.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The











                                                             
1405

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       409, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

         4       6974, an act to amend Chapter 602 of the Laws of

         5       1982 amending the Social Services Law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       410, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

        18       6975, an act to amend Chapter 715 of the Laws of

        19       1982.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        21       the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
1406

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       411, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

         9       6976, an act to amend Chapter 535 of the Laws of

        10       1983 amending the Social Services Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       421, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        23       7131, Education Law, in relation to the











                                                             
1407

         1       membership of the Board of Cooperative

         2       Educational Services in certain instances.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         8       the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      Senator Present, that's the first

        14       time through.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Would you

        16       recognize Senator Sears, please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Yes, I

        18       will.

        19                      Senator Sears.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      He doesn't want to be recognized.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's go to the

        23       controversial calendar.











                                                             
1408

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Are

         2       there any other motions before we -

         3                      Controversial.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Would you call

         5       up 407 first.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  407.

         7       Secretary will read it, please.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 19,

         9       Calendar Number 407, by Senator Tully, Senate

        10       Bill Number 6325A, an act to amend Chapter 906

        11       of the Laws of 1984 amending the Social Services

        12       Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Present, controversial?











                                                             
1409

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Controversial.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         3       Secretary will read the controversial calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 11,

         5       Calendar Number 337, by Senator Larkin, Senate

         6       Bill Number 2233A, Election Law, in relation to

         7       the hours for voting at primary elections within

         8       the county of Orange or Ulster.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        10       Explanation has been called for Senator Larkin.

        11                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President.

        12       This bill has been called for by the town clerks

        13       in the towns of Orange and Ulster County.  Over

        14       an extended period of time, they have found out

        15       that this law that was enacted in the mid '80s

        16       to add these two counties has not done anything

        17       to increase voter participation and the only

        18       thing it has created is a cost factor to local

        19       governments.

        20                      It has the support of local

        21       government.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Where?

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  In Orange and











                                                             
1410

         1       Ulster counties, the town clerks.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         4       Connor.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.  Will the Senator yield for a

         7       question.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

         9       you yield, Senator Larkin?

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        11                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you

        12       Senator.  Senator, the memo and the people who

        13       have proposed this say it will save money, and I

        14       have a simple question.  How much?

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I don't know,

        16       Senator, but the numbers that we have been

        17       watching in the balloting at primaries at our

        18       two respective counties is so limited, it's

        19       almost a -- it's a waste of time of not only the

        20       taxpayers but of those who are sitting around

        21       all day doing nothing.  Primary for a

        22       Conservative party year before last, in one

        23       election district of over 500, five people











                                                             
1411

         1       voted.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.

         3                      On the bill, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

         5       bill.  Senator Connor.

         6                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.

         7       Senator Larkin points out one problem that we're

         8       always going to have; and that is, when the very

         9       small parties, the Liberal or Right to Life or

        10       Conservatives, have a primary, of course not

        11       very many people vote between 6:00 a.m. and noon

        12       or whenever.  Not very many people vote for the

        13       whole day in those parties.

        14                      But we can't make the law with

        15       hours geared to the party.  The fact is when one

        16       of the major parties has a hotly contested

        17       primary, a lot of people do want to vote.

        18       Particularly Orange County, much more than

        19       Ulster, has become a bedroom county.  People

        20       commute to elsewhere in the metropolitan region

        21       or to New York City, and they want to vote in

        22       the primary.  But if we have the short kind of

        23       primary day that this bill would result in, they











                                                             
1412

         1       will lose their opportunity to vote.

         2                      I have some numbers here just for

         3       instance.  In the 1974 primary -- it was a

         4       Democratic primary, statewide -- 5200 people in

         5       Orange voted and 3800 in Ulster.  Subsequent to

         6       that, the law was changed in 1983 in the feeling

         7       that more people would vote in the primary.  And

         8       we get results like in the '82 gubernatorial

         9       primary, 24,000 people voted in Orange; 10,465

        10       voted in Ulster.

        11                      As recently as the 1992

        12       presidential primary 10,468 people voted in

        13       Orange and 8200 voted in Ulster.

        14                      So, generally, when there were

        15       hotly contested primaries, years like '74 and

        16        '82 and '84 and '92, the turnout did go way up

        17       from what it had been before this law was

        18       enacted.  Indeed, the law was prompted by the

        19       very large turnout in '84 which really

        20       inconvenienced people because there was a lot of

        21       crowding.

        22                      The fact of the matter is, minor

        23       parties aside, these are counties, particularly











                                                             
1413

         1       Orange County, that does have a commuter

         2       component among its voters, and we really ought

         3       to accommodate their desire to vote in a primary

         4       election.

         5                      The sponsor can't put a number on

         6       it.  It will save money.  Well, at what price

         7       democracy?  The fact of the matter is if it only

         8       saves an itty-bitty amount of money, then we

         9       ought to opt in favor of affording the voters

        10       the widest possible opportunity to vote.

        11                      And I say to my colleagues on the

        12       other side of the aisle who may see a hot

        13       primary this year, more and more in our state

        14       when there are real contests in major parties,

        15       you get very large turnouts in a primary.

        16                      And bills like this, really -

        17       because what we do, we, the State of New York,

        18       run the party's primary for them -- ought to

        19       accommodate the interest of the major parties

        20       and the widest possible participation by their

        21       members in a primary election.

        22                      This particular bill does not

        23       have bipartisan support from the two major











                                                             
1414

         1       parties in the two counties, and that's my

         2       principal political objection to it.

         3                      Apparently, the two Republican

         4       chairs said it's okay and one of the Democratic

         5       chairs, but the Democratic chair in Orange

         6       County feels very, very strongly that within the

         7       Democratic Party in Orange County there are a

         8       large amount of commuters who are active in

         9       party affairs and like to vote in the primaries,

        10       and they require the extended voting hours which

        11       the Legislature afforded that county back in

        12       1983.

        13                      Under those circumstances, I

        14       don't think we ought to move a bill, whether

        15       town councils or whatever want it, that isn't

        16       supported -- and that's been the history with

        17       successful election changes -- that aren't

        18       supported on a bipartisan basis by the

        19       organizations concerned.

        20                      And I'm not going to say any more

        21       because I think because there is not that

        22       support, this is going to be, once again, a

        23       one-house bill.











                                                             
1415

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, I appreciate

         5       Senator Connor's remarks.  As usual, he is right

         6       on target.  We've had this before, and number of

         7       us have voted in the negative on it.

         8                      I just like to say for myself

         9       that I certainly would have felt a lot better,

        10       Senator Larkin, if you came to us with a bill

        11       asking for money to advertise or to encourage or

        12       do something to get the people out to vote,

        13       because that's what it's about.  Cutting the

        14       voting hours isn't what elections are about.

        15       Limiting the ballot access is not what elections

        16       are about.

        17                      So I appreciate the comments by

        18       Senator Connor, and I would certainly urge

        19       everybody, certainly on this side of the aisle,

        20       to vote in the negative.

        21                      Last section.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
1416

         1                      Senator Dollinger, do you wish to

         2       speak?  Senator Dollinger to explain his vote.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Actually just

         4       on the bill, Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  On the

         6       bill.  I'm sorry.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Party vote in the

         8       negative.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  To explain my

        10       vote?

        11                      Mr. President.  I voted against

        12       this bill last time, and I intend to vote

        13       against it again.

        14                      It seems to me that the comments

        15       from Senator Connor and Senator Gold are

        16       extremely well taken.  I personally think that

        17       we ought to be doing everything possible to

        18       encourage participation in major parties,

        19       smaller parties, whatever you want to call it.

        20       The greater the participation of the public in

        21       the party system, I think the greater vitality

        22       it has, the more effective primaries will be.

        23                      I, frankly, think we ought to be











                                                             
1417

         1       looking at the possibility of extending voting

         2       beyond a single day if we want to have greater

         3       participation, at least in primaries.  This

         4       bill, it seems to me -- anything that rolls back

         5       the amount of time people can vote in a primary

         6       to figure out who the major party candidate

         7       should be is a mistake.

         8                      We should be expanding the time

         9       for voting, perhaps even including it to a

        10       couple of days, to make sure that every

        11       Republican gets to be heard, every Democrat gets

        12       to be heard, and every member of a minor party

        13       gets to be heard, as well.

        14                      This is taking a step in the

        15       wrong direction when we need further election

        16       reform.  We should be expanding the time and

        17       doing other things to get more people involved

        18       in elections rather than fewer.

        19                      I'll vote no, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Present, do you agree to a party vote?

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes, party

        23       vote.











                                                             
1418

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

         6       the roll on a party vote.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.  Nays

         9       23.  Party vote.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        14       Goodman.

        15                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  May I have

        16       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        17       on Calendar Number 62, Senate Bill 6398.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  62?

        19       Without objection.

        20                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Thank you.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 13,

        22       Calendar Number 358, by Senator Hannon, Senate

        23       Bill Number 280, an act to amend the Real











                                                             
1419

         1       Property Tax Law.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         4       Explanation has been asked for.  Lay it aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       375, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 6734.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can we have one

         8       day on this for Senator Galiber.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Can you

        10       have one day on this, Senator Volker?

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        13       aside for the day.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       378, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        16       3755, an act to amend the Education Law, in

        17       relation to the transportation of students.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
1420

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Jones to explain her vote.

         4                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes.  I'm, you

         5       know, like everybody else certainly interested

         6       in having children transported safely to school,

         7       but I see this as another option that we're

         8       taking away from school districts and another

         9       mandate we're placing on them.

        10                      Unless we're prepared to give

        11       them more money, this transportation seems to be

        12       the only option that they have, and I'm very

        13       concerned that we would take this away from

        14       them.  So as a result, I'm voting no.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        16       Jones in the negative.  Results.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.  Nays

        18       2.  Senators Daly and Jones recorded in the

        19       negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Bill is

        21       passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       382, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2288,











                                                             
1421

         1       an act to amend the Correction Law, in relation

         2       to payments in lieu of taxes.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         5       Explanation has been asked for.  Senator Cook.

         6                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

         7       The State of New York has seen fit, for a very

         8       good reason, to place most of its correctional

         9       facilities in relatively small communities.

        10       That's all well and good, except that there are

        11       certain services that those correctional

        12       facilities require -- essentially fire service

        13       and emergency ambulance service coverage -

        14       which put a very heavy burden on those

        15       communities.

        16                      The most recent contact that I

        17       had on this subject was Otisville, which

        18       happens, as a matter of fact, to have a federal

        19       prison as well as a state prison with a few

        20       hundred people providing all of the tax money

        21       that is necessary to buy sophisticated fire

        22       fighting equipment that would be adequate to

        23       respond to an emergency of the type that could











                                                             
1422

         1       occur in that facility were there a fire; and,

         2       of course, prisoners that are statewide

         3       prisoners are being placed there, something that

         4       all of us should share in the cost of.

         5                      And this bill in a very modest

         6       way puts one dollar a year from each

         7       correctional facility into the treasury of the

         8       fire department and of the emergency medical

         9       service to help cover some of those costs.  And

        10       as I said, a very modest bill because a thousand

        11       dollars or so doesn't really go very far but at

        12       least it's a recognition on the part of the

        13       State of New York that we do have some

        14       responsibility for sharing in those costs.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        17       Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Mr.

        19       President.  I'm sorry to say this, Senator Cook,

        20       but I think it's a myoptic bill and, frankly,

        21       it's a bill where it shows a certain amount of

        22       greediness, if I may say so.

        23                      First of all, a lot of these











                                                             
1423

         1       communities are very anxious to have a prison in

         2       their localities because it brings terrific

         3       revenue in terms of job and other economic

         4       activities.

         5                      In fact, I remember some years

         6       ago, it was in my mind a terrible budget that

         7       was passed and one that was very difficult for

         8       Republicans to support, but you had to pass the

         9       budget and you did.  And, afterwards, I saw

        10       Senator McHugh, and we were in the -- in our

        11       little hideaway there, and I said to him, "I

        12       guess you are going to stay here over the

        13       weekend."  He said, "Why should I?"  I said,

        14        "Well, you don't want to go back and show

        15       yourself in your community, having voted for

        16       this budget with taxes and everything else."

        17                      He said, "I'm coming back a

        18       hero."  I said, "You're coming back a hero?"

        19                      He said, "Yes, I brought a prison

        20       to my community.  People are going to be

        21       delighted."

        22                      So, Senator Cook, let's recognize

        23       that there are many areas of the state that are











                                                             
1424

         1       very happy to have prisons located there because

         2       of the economic benefit and value that they

         3       bring to their communities.

         4                      Now, I think it's unfortunate

         5       that there are many places in New York State

         6       that are so dependent on prisons for economic

         7       activity.  I wish we could do more for those

         8       communities, and we should be doing more for

         9       them, and I'm sure those communities would like

        10       to see other forms of economic activity other

        11       than prisons.

        12                      But the fact is, at this moment,

        13       it is a recognition of the economic value of

        14       prisons.  So at the same time that you are

        15       fighting to get prisons in your communities,

        16       that you see the value to the communities having

        17       the prisons, then you come and you say, "Now

        18       you've put all this money in our community, now

        19       you got to pay us for providing volunteer fire

        20       department service."

        21                      I really don't understand that.

        22       But over and above that, what concerns me is the

        23       way we fragmentize our tax laws and have











                                                             
1425

         1       different rules for this facility.  There are

         2       other state facilities.  I don't know why you

         3       just pick prisons.  If this was a sensible

         4       approach, then it ought to apply to all state

         5       facilities; and if you applied it to all state

         6       facilities, then how about for other services

         7       that the state provides or rather that the

         8       localities provide to these prisons?

         9                      You could make the argument there

        10       is additional police presence that's required.

        11       You got visitors who come there, so you need

        12       local police officers to handle traffic and

        13       other things of that sort.

        14                      Now, you remember that some years

        15       ago we had a bill that I think first passed when

        16       you and I were in the Assembly -- we probably

        17       supported it -- which provided that the state

        18       was going to pay to the localities for every one

        19       of its facilities, a payment in lieu of taxes or

        20       would be equal to taxes, would be a recognition

        21       of the services the locality provides to the

        22       state in servicing its facilities.  And we found

        23       out it was going to cost $400-500 million or











                                                             
1426

         1       even more, and every year there was a painful

         2       vote as we extended the effective date.  And

         3       finally, in the middle of the one night when we

         4       were all groggy, we finally killed that.

         5       Because I think we recognized not only the cost

         6       but also that there was an consistency in both

         7       wanting state facilities, benefiting from state

         8       facilities, and then saying to the State of New

         9       York now you got to pay for it.

        10                      So I think the bill is not fair.

        11       I think it's not reasonable, and I don't think

        12       it's consistent with our tax laws.  And for that

        13       reason, I would urge my colleagues to vote

        14       against it.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.  Nays

        23       3.  Senators Galiber, Leichter and Solomon











                                                             
1427

         1       recorded in the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       395, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 6912,

         6       an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         7       the criminal possession and criminal sale of a

         8       controlled substance or marijuana.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        10       Explanation has been asked for.

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        12       You know, I've heard it said before, you know,

        13       sometimes we get up on the floor of the Senate

        14       and we say this is one of the most important

        15       bills to pass the Senate this year.

        16                      Admittedly, I say it with the

        17       death penalty, and I mean it very sincerely.  I

        18       have to be honest with you, of all the criminal

        19       justice bills that I have introduced this year

        20       and hope to pass to come into law, this one is

        21       probably the most important one we will do this

        22       year.

        23                      One of the reasons why we have











                                                             
1428

         1       rushed this bill as soon as it's been ready to

         2       go -- and I will tell you why it hasn't been

         3       ready to go until now, why this is the first day

         4       that we are able to pass it on this floor.  If

         5       this piece of legislation does not pass both

         6       houses, be signed by the Governor, thousands of

         7       people -- thousands of violent inmates -- and

         8       let's stop the crap that's been going on over in

         9       the Assembly about all of the people involved in

        10       drugs in our prisons are nonviolent people.

        11       That's the biggest crock of nonsense I've ever

        12       heard in my life.

        13                      An awful lot of violent people

        14       are going to walk out of our prison system.  It

        15       is a very dangerous situation created by a Court

        16       of Appeals in this state that should take a real

        17       look at itself and decide where it is in a

        18       number of ways.

        19                      Some people have said that this

        20       is the worst criminal justice decision made by a

        21       Court of Appeals in this state in decades.  This

        22       is the People versus Ryan decision, that

        23       basically says that a person who is charged in a











                                                             
1429

         1       drug case not only must be charged to have

         2       knowingly committed the crime and has to know

         3       that he or she is in possession of drugs but

         4       also has to know the weight of the drugs, a

         5       standard by the way that any law enforcement

         6       officer and prosecutors and so forth realize is

         7       almost a ridiculous standard, and it's a defense

         8       attorney's dream, by the way.

         9                      Now, let me tell you where this

        10       bill came from.

        11                      Can I finish just a second.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I think

        13       Senator Volker wants to finish his.

        14                      SENATOR VOLKER:  This bill was

        15       submitted to us by the District Attorneys

        16       Association of New York or submitted to the

        17       Governor's office, I'm sorry.  It is a bill that

        18       was submitted to us at the request of the

        19       Governor and the Attorney General.  It was

        20       drafted by the District Attorneys Association.

        21       It is supported by the Law Enforcement Council

        22       and virtually, as far as I know, every reputable

        23       law enforcement group in the State of New York.











                                                             
1430

         1                      No one is exactly sure, very

         2       honestly, and we discussed this -- Senator

         3       Dollinger and myself and a number of us

         4       discussed this in our committee meeting.  No one

         5       is exactly sure, even assuming we pass this

         6       bill, what kind of havoc has already been

         7       wreaked by the Court decision, because there

         8       will be some tough decisions that some judges -

         9       are going to have to be made as to what the

        10       effect, already, of cases that have happened

        11       prior to this; in other words, especially cases

        12       that occurred between the time that this case

        13       was decided and whenever the Governor signs this

        14       bill into law.

        15                      So I think that this is something

        16       extremely serious.  It has been estimated that

        17       if we do nothing with this People versus Ryan

        18       decision that at least 4,000 cases will be put

        19       at risk, and no one is sure how many cases are

        20       in the pipeline that could be dealt with by

        21       this.

        22                      It just seems to me that this is

        23       something that we can't delay dealing with.  And











                                                             
1431

         1       I know there are some people here who have not

         2       been able to enact second felony offender

         3       changes.  And as somebody said, this is a nice

         4       way of doing it.  This is a nice way of emptying

         5       out some of our prisons.

         6                      It may be nice, but it's

         7       extremely dangerous.  This will put at risk some

         8       of the most dangerous prisoners in our system

         9       because the possibility is there, the very

        10       strong possibility, that many of those cases

        11       will be overturned and, in fact, until we get

        12       this righted, that future drug cases will be

        13       brought almost to a halt.  The New York City

        14       Police Department is saying that all of their

        15       cases, their drug cases could be put in

        16       jeopardy.

        17                      So this is something that's an

        18       extremely serious matter.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        20       Waldon.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        22       much, Mr. President.  Would the Senator suffer

        23       one question, please?











                                                             
1432

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Would

         2       you yield?

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Certainly.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  I may be

         5       incorrect, Senator Volker, but I thought I heard

         6       you say that thousands will walk out of jail.

         7                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Could, yes.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  There is no

         9       retroactive clause in this bill, is there, in

        10       regard to people who have already been

        11       sentenced?

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  There is no

        13       retroactive clause.  The question I think is -

        14       and we don't know the exact answer to this

        15       question.  The question that has to be asked is,

        16       is on writs of habeas corpus and things of that

        17       nature, what would be the result?

        18                      There is one school of thought

        19       that says it's a procedural matter and therefore

        20       if it's reversed by a clarification of the

        21       statute, so to speak, that judges can still rule

        22       that the cases could stand, and there's another

        23       school of thought that says that's not











                                                             
1433

         1       necessarily.

         2                      So what will probably happen is,

         3       assuming that this bill becomes law, there will

         4       be a lot of cases making decisions about what

         5       are some very serious criminals -- either stay

         6       in jail, go to jail and so forth -- even despite

         7       this bill; but at least we will have protected

         8       whatever we can and stopped the wreaking of the

         9       havoc that this decision has made.

        10                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        12       Waldon.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  I'm going to

        14       have to ask the seconds question.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Sure.

        16                      SENATOR WALDON:  If you would

        17       permit.

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Sure.

        19                      SENATOR WALDON:  You don't mean

        20       that those in jails will, in fact, walk out.

        21       This is more a prospective bill, is that not

        22       correct, meaning that those who are sentenced in

        23       futuro, under Ryan, may not be, in fact,











                                                             
1434

         1       sentenced to what you believe they are guilty

         2       of; but if this legislation you are proposing is

         3       passed, they would receive the appropriate

         4       sentence as you view the law?

         5                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Senator, I hope

         6       you're right, but I'm not sure you're right.  I

         7       think there is the possibility that some people

         8       who are already in jail could presumably walk

         9       out.  That is a possibility.  I'm not saying

        10       that would happen, but there are some in the law

        11       enforcement community, in the District Attorneys

        12       Association, who believe that the real

        13       probability is that a number of the cases that

        14       have already gone through the pipeline recently

        15       could well be overturned if this statute isn't

        16       put into place and if we don't straighten this

        17       out.

        18                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        19       much, Senator.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        21       Galiber.

        22                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Usually in the

        23       course of the debate, especially with my good











                                                             
1435

         1       friend, Dale Volker, I ask him to yield to some

         2       questions but not in this case.

         3                      This piece of legislation needs

         4       some time, and this is what is called political

         5       hype.  The decision in the Ryan case came down,

         6       I believe, in December of 1993.  Here we are a

         7       few months later reacting, if you will, to a

         8       decision which has not yet found its way really

         9       into the court system.

        10                      Senator Volker and I were here,

        11       and I don't recall how he voted on the

        12       Rockefeller law back in 1970, whenever it was -

        13        '73 -- and there are those of us who suggested

        14       to the then governor of this great state of

        15       ours, desirous of running for president of the

        16       United States, desirous of taking off his mantle

        17       of liberalism, desirous of putting on his cap of

        18       conservatism, forced us -- forced some -- into

        19       the harsh Rockefeller law, A-1, A-2, A-3.

        20                      Took us some time.  And I'm not

        21       sure, I think Senator Dale ultimately or from

        22       the very outset saw something wrong there, but

        23       it took us back to 1970-whatever-the-date-was to











                                                             
1436

         1       pass legislation.  It happened to be Chapter 4

         2       or 10.  It was one that I remember and I usually

         3       don't remember statutes, but it really changed

         4       A-2 and A-3 categories because we felt that the

         5       law was too harsh.  And it gave us an

         6       opportunity to review, if you will, the A-1

         7       categories which called for life in prison.

         8                      What has happened here in this

         9       particular case with the Ryan case, Judge Kaye

        10       and five other judges -- and it depends on

        11       whether they are favorable or not.  It's like

        12       being a lawyer.  If you get your client off,

        13       you're a great lawyer.  If he or she goes to

        14       jail, you're a lousy lawyer.

        15                      We have confirmed some very fine

        16       judges in the Court of Appeals, without

        17       opposition in most cases.  And what Judge Kaye

        18       is saying is simply that there are layers of

        19       cases where the punishment is too severe.

        20                      We've talked about unloading our

        21       jail systems; that half or a good portion

        22       represent persons who have committed small

        23       nonviolent drug arrests.  They can make it sound











                                                             
1437

         1       bad by saying these are violent criminals in

         2       there, and yet we have in the Bedford house of

         3       detention some 98 women, 80 percent of their

         4       population talked into being mules, if you

         5       will.  And that's what this bill is all about

         6       and establishing the fact that they are mules;

         7       but because of the weight, we find them serving

         8       fifteen years to life.

         9                      And I don't want to make it

        10       sound -- dramatize it by saying Bedford Hills,

        11       because it's a women's institution.  All our

        12       prison institutions throughout the state, the

        13       same thing applies.

        14                      What this bill is is a reaction

        15       to a political year, not really knowing where

        16       this is going.

        17                      I practice law on rare occasions.

        18       I have two cases.  Just got rid of one the other

        19       day, and it happened to be in this category.

        20       District attorney agreed that the defendant, my

        21       client, was a mule.  He had those Nike sneakers

        22       coming back from one of the islands, and it

        23       looked a little high without the jumping, and











                                                             
1438

         1       they asked him to stop.  And as he ran, two

         2       pounds of cocaine came out of the back of his

         3       shoe.  He said they gave me X number of dollars

         4       to bring this back.  21 years of age, no prior

         5       record.  Without Ryan, we're sending him to jail

         6       or her to jail for fifteen years.

         7                      And if we take it in a different

         8       perspective and we talk about alternatives to

         9       incarceration, if we read very carefully the

        10       message that the Governor sent to us, shock

        11       treatment which we all agree, or most of us do,

        12       we will offer it to you again if the criteria

        13       you meet is there plus if it's narcotics.

        14                      Predicate felon possibility?  If

        15       it is drugs, we will offer an opportunity by

        16       giving to the judge a discretion to deal with

        17       it.  If you are arrested for a felony under the

        18       message that was sent to us -- it may pass, and

        19       I think it will because the package over in the

        20       Assembly is based on changing the criminal

        21       justice system -- give you an alternative to go

        22       into a treatment program.

        23                      All these things that are











                                                             
1439

         1       mentioned are designed, because we have

         2       recognized that we are putting people in jail

         3       for drugs, violent if you want to call them that

         4        -- that's nonsense in my judgment, and no

         5       disrespect, and you know that -- where all these

         6       folks who are in jail for this horrible length

         7       of time merely because they have possessed a

         8       certainly quantity of drugs.

         9                      Are they the big ones, the big

        10       timers that we talk about?  Are they the ones

        11       shooting up the neighborhoods, if you will?

        12       No.  Because we never, Senator Volker, caught up

        13       with those big ones in the first place.  Even

        14       the A-1 categories, we never got ahold of them.

        15       They were so smart.  They were able to give

        16       15-year-olds the heavy part of the drugs.  We

        17       never caught up with them.

        18                      Judge Kaye by her decision five

        19       other judges have suggested that this is the

        20       first time, that we want to put some teeth in

        21       the hands of those so that we will not be

        22       packing our prisons with those persons who but

        23       for the Rockefeller law might very well be on











                                                             
1440

         1       probation or serving lesser amounts of

         2       sentences.

         3                      What the bill that Senator Volker

         4       suggests offers strict liability.  I'm not sure,

         5       but I think it has something in terms of

         6       possible affirmative defense in it or perhaps

         7       that was one of the memos or amendments that was

         8       going to be proposed, I'm not sure.  But you

         9       have to put the defendant on the stand in order

        10       to do so.

        11                      We have a number of memos here,

        12       some in opposition -- a lot in opposition.  But,

        13       Senator Volker, let me just share with you what

        14       time does.  Time has a way of solving so many

        15       things.

        16                      In this short span of time from

        17       December '93 to March '94, just a couple of

        18       months, three months or so, the reaction to this

        19       law as far as the district attorneys are

        20       concerned, I made some inquiries and they told

        21       me that there are now, Senator Volker, three

        22       reported cases.  One is People versus

        23       Okehoffurum.  In that case, the evidence of the











                                                             
1441

         1       price and the defendant's handling of the weight

         2       is sufficient to establish knowledge of weight.

         3       People versus Corang, held defendant's handling

         4       of five ounces of cocaine was sufficient for a

         5       class A felony indictment.  And People versus

         6       Lujan -- all these are recent cases since the

         7       Ryan matter, so they're dealing with it, as I

         8       said before -- held the size of the drug package

         9       sufficient to circumstantially prove knowledge

        10       of the weight.

        11                      I tried to use Ryan in that

        12       sneaker case of mine.  Judge says, "Counsel, two

        13       pounds, two pounds is not the kind of case that

        14       the Ryan decision meant," and I suspect that the

        15       sponsor of the bill knows that as well as I do.

        16       Maybe not as well as most of you know.

        17                      The districts attorneys in

        18       Manhattan -- four or five judges refused to

        19       dismiss these cases.  Another judge says, "Well,

        20       if it's pure weight."  And when we say "pure

        21       weight," we're not talking about the two pounds

        22       again.  We're talking about the section of the

        23       law that it's brought under where it's a small











                                                             
1442

         1       few ounces, where they have reduced it to a

         2       misdemeanor.  But in the other cases, they

         3       refused to indict -- or they do indict.  They

         4       refused to dismiss the cases, and there's a

         5       number of judges who have followed that.

         6                      And I simply say that this matter

         7       that we discuss today needs some time.  And as I

         8       said to you, before, we fought and I think

         9       somewhere, Dale Volker, like most of the time,

        10       Senator, we wind up on a part of the issue.

        11       Maybe, sometimes, it's just a third of it, and

        12       that's quite a bit as far as the two of us are

        13       concerned.  We did away with the Rockefeller law

        14       because they're putting too many people in jail

        15       who shouldn't be there.

        16                      Can you imagine someone who for

        17       economic reasons -- and I'm not justifying any

        18       of it -- for economic reasons takes a certain

        19       quantity of drugs from here to there.  There's

        20       no culpability as far as the sale of that drug.

        21       For economic purposes, he collects a fee for

        22       doing it.  Should that person serve fifteen

        23       years?  The proponent of this bill say yes, that











                                                             
1443

         1       the prosecution has put on additional burden

         2       with the prosecution to show that he had

         3       knowledge or she had knowledge.

         4                      And if you read a careful

         5       reading, careful reading of the decision, Judge

         6       Kaye and her colleagues went through certain

         7       mitigating circumstances where this would not

         8       apply; but to create this kind of political hype

         9       at a time when this decision has not had an

        10       opportunity to function, see how it works out,

        11       and the sign posts are indicating that the

        12       judges and the district attorneys are not having

        13       a problem that you mentioned about.  They

        14       knee-jerked it on December 24, maybe Christmas

        15       Eve, if that was the date that it came down, but

        16       not March of 1994.

        17                      Again, back in the real world, I

        18       know, Senator, that the votes are here, and it's

        19       going to happen, but why should we go back to

        20       the Rockefeller days.  You opposed part of that

        21       then, and you are going to close the door with

        22       this piece of legislation.  This piece of

        23       legislation basically concerns itself with those











                                                             
1444

         1       persons who are not violent, with those persons

         2       who are involved because they are mules, but

         3       certainly not in that category that we read

         4       about in the paper where persons are going

         5       through the neighborhoods, shooting up the

         6       neighborhoods, killing off little babies.  This

         7       is not the situation.

         8                      I say the bill needs more time,

         9       and I was going to offer an amendment on it, but

        10       the amendment takes away from where my position

        11       would be, because then I'm asking for a

        12       presumption.  And your bill would befall on the

        13       defendant and my amendment, and yours also, I

        14       think, where we have to put the defendant on the

        15       stand in order for him to say, "No, I didn't

        16       have knowledge" or "No, I didn't have intent"

        17       and then for the jury to make the decision.

        18                      So, colleagues, I had to put this

        19       on the record.  I like to function most of the

        20       time in the real world.  I don't like fighting

        21       windmills too often.  I do it too often as it

        22       is.  But this is one of those cases.

        23                      This bill solves a problem that











                                                             
1445

         1       has haunted us for years and years and years,

         2       and that's the harsh Rockefeller law.  This is

         3       the first time that we had an opportunity to

         4       deal with those persons who possibly, if we were

         5       to poll this body, would say clearly that they

         6       do not deserve to be in jail for the fifteen

         7       years or so that the statute calls for.  We need

         8       some time.  I'm not sure we're ever going to get

         9       it.

        10                      I only hope, but I have very

        11       little hope, that at least in the Assembly by

        12       the time it gets on their calendar -- and I hope

        13       they don't rush it, because it's such a short

        14       time span.  I dare say knowing your position,

        15       Senator Volker, on this issue that if this were

        16       to come up not at the wee hours of closing

        17       session but if this bill were to come up

        18       sometime near the end of this session, perhaps

        19       you wouldn't even bring it up.  Because by that

        20       time, you would have seen that this bill doesn't

        21       do the damage that you suspect it does.

        22                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator











                                                             
1446

         1       Volker.  Then I will go right to Senator

         2       DeFrancisco.

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I will try to be

         4       brief.  Senator Galiber, normally I -- and I

         5       must say to you that I understand what you are

         6       saying very well, and I think you are well aware

         7       that both of us in one way we're on the same

         8       side, and maybe in degrees, on the Rockefeller

         9       drug law.  As a result my activities in the

        10       Assembly on the Rockefeller drug law, I got the

        11       longlasting and lifelong enmity of a governor

        12       who -- I've never said publicly on the floor

        13       here -- once drove his limousine across the

        14       sidewalk in front of me, threatened me, pushed

        15       me against a wall, and I pushed him back against

        16       another wall, a few other things that happened

        17       as a result of it.  He was a real

        18       confrontationalist.  He also said that the

        19       changes in that Rockefeller drug law -- he

        20       privately told some of his friends -- were the

        21       greatest defeat that he had in public life, not

        22       well-known, and the result of it was that a

        23       number of other things occurred after that which











                                                             
1447

         1       I can't get into here, but did occur.

         2                      Senator, I must disagree with

         3       you.  And I understand what you are saying to

         4       me.  You are right about one thing that the

         5       impact of doing nothing in this, of not passing

         6       this legislation and not signing into law,

         7       would, I think, in the long-term have the effect

         8       of negating a good deal of the tough drug laws

         9       that we have passed over the last two decades.

        10       Nonviolent as well violent people would be

        11       impacted.  That's almost a surety.

        12                      Ryan, by the way, was not a small

        13       time possessor.  If you look at who the People

        14       versus Ryan case involved, it was not some small

        15       time possessor.  Quite obviously, when you think

        16       about it, because it went all the way to the

        17       Court of Appeals.  And I suppose, normally,

        18       small time people, very honestly, don't get to

        19       the Court of Appeals.

        20                      In fact, what's really not

        21       well-known is, here, we had a failure here a few

        22       years ago of a first-felony defender diversion

        23       program.  The reason it failed is that every











                                                             
1448

         1       D.A. in New York City had been doing

         2       first-felony offender diversion for years.  You

         3       really got to work at getting busted and going

         4       to jail in New York City.  Four, five times.

         5                      When you are talking about this

         6       sort of thing, I mean, sure, there is I suppose

         7       the occasional person who is supposedly the

         8       small-time person.  My definition of the normal

         9       drug person who's nonviolent is the guy who

        10       shoots over somebody's head, misses, and gets

        11       convicted of possession of a lot of marijuana

        12       that he carries out of a store, because if you

        13       look at the history of people who are in jail

        14       just on drug charges, virtually all of them -

        15       virtually all of them -- have a long string of

        16       felonies before that, at least a few of which

        17       are violent felonies.  Many times they were pled

        18       down.  That's the way it is.

        19                      The problem is -- and I don't

        20       know, maybe you're right, Joe.  All I know is

        21       the New York City Police Department says they

        22       have 3100 cases that if we don't do anything

        23       about the People versus Ryan case they may have











                                                             
1449

         1       to throw it out the window, and those are only

         2       possession cases.  They have no idea on the sale

         3       side exactly how many they may have to sack.

         4                      The rest of the state at this

         5       point says 900.  They're not sure, but it's a

         6       lot.  This is not just about small-time people,

         7       not at all.  It could be somebody with thousands

         8       of pounds for that matter.

         9                      Yes, it is Joe.  And not only

        10       that, there is another factor here.  If this

        11       case remains unchallenged, what about the

        12       larceny statute?  You could apply this to other

        13       areas of the law.

        14                      And you and I know, Senator, and

        15       both of us, I assume, have been involved, and I

        16       know of many people have been involved in cases

        17       involving people who have drugs.  Most of the

        18       people that are involved in drugs, they have no

        19       idea of the exact amount of the drugs that they

        20       have.  They don't know whether it's six pounds

        21       or four pounds or three pounds.

        22                      This is, by the way, a standard

        23       that every law enforcement person that I've











                                                             
1450

         1       talked to says is impossible to meet,

         2       virtually.  It's ridiculous, and it flies in the

         3       face of the statute.  What the Court of Appeals

         4       did was to take a statute and take the meaning

         5       of it as it was intended and said, "We're going

         6       to interpret it in a different way."  That's

         7       what they said.

         8                      The trouble is and, once again,

         9       the Legislature certainly never meant that we

        10       were going to say that the criminal had to know

        11       exactly how much drugs he had or she had.  What

        12       the Court of Appeals is saying is we don't

        13       particularly care what the Legislature intended

        14       we're going to put our imprimatur on it and make

        15       an decision.  Maybe that's the worst thing of

        16       all, and Senator Marchi has pointed that out

        17       over the years.  It's a very disturbing kind of

        18       thing that's occuring in the courts not only in

        19       this state but in this country, where courts are

        20       taking statutes that we and other legislatures

        21       have passed and saying, "Well, we don't like the

        22       way that they did that, not that they intended

        23       anything else.  We know what they intended, but











                                                             
1451

         1       we think it ought to have been different and,

         2       therefore, we are going to say that this is what

         3       they really intended to do."

         4                      I guess -- let me finish up by

         5       saying, Senator, normally I would agree with you

         6       that we could take some time to look at this.

         7       This is like saying that there's a leak in the

         8       Titanic, and we should take a little time and

         9       hope that the thing doesn't sink.

        10                      The only issue here in this bill

        11       of waiting is the issue of how many cases we're

        12       going to jeopardize, and that's why I think,

        13       Senator, I can't agree with you and why I ithink

        14       we have to move ahead.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator yield

        16       to a question?

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Certainly.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  I do

        19       have a list, incidentally, but I presume that

        20       you would yield.  I do have a list of people

        21       that wanted to speak on this.

        22                      So Senator Galiber.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, are











                                                             
1452

         1       you aware that the three cases that I cited -- I

         2       might not have pronounced that first name

         3       probably, but all those cases were held because

         4       they were able to show by circumstantial

         5       evidence.  That's why they didn't dismiss these

         6       cases, either by the handling of them or in the

         7       law enforcement category where they say, "Do you

         8       want to buy a nickel bag or a dime bag?"  So

         9       that's the kind of knowledge.  There were

        10       convictions here.  These cases were not

        11       dismissed.  You would have us believe that if

        12       your bill passes -- or if the Ryan decision

        13       stands, that the flood gates of our institutions

        14       were opened up and 30-some-odd thousand,

        15       whatever those cases that the police officers

        16       who have no responsibility for prosecution in

        17       the first place have written to you and said

        18       31,000 of our cases -

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Hundred.

        20                      SENATOR GALIBER:  -- are going to

        21       go down the drain.  I'll yield.

        22                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Hundred, Joe.  I

        23       didn't say 31,000.  3100.











                                                             
1453

         1                      SENATOR GALIBER:  3100?  All

         2       right, 3100.

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  In New York

         4       City.

         5                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Okay.  New York

         6       City.  Sounded -- New York City, sounded

         7       reasonable for that amount, very frankly.

         8                      The fact of the matter is that

         9       the Ryan case, they are closing the doors so

        10       rapidly here that the only area of concern -

        11       the areas of concern that you have won't

        12       happen.  The prosecutors are suffering no

        13       serious misgivings about this decision itself,

        14       very frankly.  You haven't heard from them

        15       recently, I'm sure.

        16                      And there is that distinction

        17       between the statutes, and I'm not quite sure,

        18       the maximum sentence and a number of other

        19       categories which I really can't see here on the

        20       notes.

        21                      The fact of the matter is that

        22       this piece of legislation, as I pointed out to

        23       you, they are not opening up the flood gates.











                                                             
1454

         1       District attorneys are not prosecuting these

         2       cases -- they are prosecuting these cases, and

         3       they are not dismissing them because the

         4       knowledge that they need by circumstantial

         5       evidence, the handling of the case, the amount

         6       that you talk about, the two pounds that I

         7       talked about.  Judge Eng, right in Queens

         8       County, said, "Come on, Counsel, that doesn't

         9       fly," because defense attorneys try it.  That's

        10       not even close.  What we're talking about in the

        11       Ryan case are those small cases where they wind

        12       up reducing them in the first instance.  It's

        13       just where we have a mule situation.  They

        14       charge them with an A-2 felony.  They can't go

        15       any further than the A-2 felony.  When we

        16       changed the Rockefeller law, it has to be the

        17       best you can do is three years to life, best you

        18       can do for someone whom we have established is

        19       merely a mule, no culpability as far as the sale

        20       or use of the drug is concerned.

        21                      Senator, I'm not trying to

        22       convince you.  I just wanted to draw a couple of

        23       things to your attention, and there's a list of











                                                             
1455

         1       cases that we got this afternoon, and I won't

         2       trouble you with them, where they've said the

         3       same thing.  Judge Roberts, not Burt Roberts,

         4       his brother in Manhattan refuses -- denies them

         5       all.  They bring them in on a small amount with

         6       a pure weight with crack.  They threaten them,

         7       say if you don't take the year and a half now,

         8       we'll send it back up to the grand jury, who

         9       will come out with a B felony conviction,

        10       possibility.  So the prosecutors are handling

        11       this.  They are handling this.

        12                      And when we compare their ability

        13       to handle it -- I have a lot of confidence in

        14       them, but I'm sure you have also -- as opposed

        15       to the damage it does, closes the door in areas

        16       where we're both concerned about those persons

        17       who are spending an inordinate amount of time in

        18       prison because of this tough law.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Senator, I guess

        20       I will have to reply to that.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        22       Volker.

        23                      SENATOR VOLKER:  This is not











                                                             
1456

         1       about small timers.  This is not about big

         2       timers.  This is about -- and this is not about

         3       sentencing.  This is about a basic issue of a

         4       statute and a reinterpretation of a statute by

         5       the Court of Appeals.  Senator, those cases have

         6       not reached the Court of Appeals.

         7                      Yes, there are judges.  There's

         8       no question there are judges who are saying we

         9       don't want to follow that ridiculous decision,

        10       and we're going to find a way to avoid it.  The

        11       problem is, though, that you and I know the

        12       defense bar is running around -- this is one of

        13       the biggest boons to the defense bar that

        14       they've seen.  We've had them in our office.

        15       They are running all over the place.  They think

        16       this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

        17                      This, by the way -- and I will be

        18       the first to admit it.  I'm an attorney.  I

        19       think this case is a great case for defense

        20       attorneys.  I'm an attorney.  I mean they can

        21       make a bundle if we don't change this case

        22       because they are going to be able to appeal

        23       umpteen cases to the higher courts, and probably











                                                             
1457

         1       some of these cases that you mentioned are going

         2       to end up in the Court of Appeals.  And what's

         3       the Court of Appeals going to do?  They already

         4       made a decision that basically said you have to

         5       prove the weight, and they are faced with that

         6       decision.

         7                      By the way, I heard from some

         8       friends of mine who know the judges in the Court

         9       of Appeals.  They are saying they have never

        10       received so much flack from the public as they

        11       have received because of this case; and,

        12       frankly, I think they should have.

        13                      I'll be very honest with you,

        14       normally I -- you and I are more in agreement,

        15       very often, than in disagreement, but on this

        16       one, Senator, I have to disagree with you.  I

        17       think it's important that we do this as quickly

        18       as possible.

        19                      I think it's a double principle.

        20       First, I think that the Court of Appeals made

        21       this decision, I think, against what was clearly

        22       the wishes of the Legislature when this was

        23       passed.  The issue of drug deals and the issue











                                                             
1458

         1       of second-felony offender reform, all that sort

         2       of thing is a whole different issue.

         3                      This issue is the issue of

         4       whether we can allow a decision to stand that

         5       makes a ridiculous standard -- puts a ridiculous

         6       standard not only on the prosecution but on law

         7       enforcement officers.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       DeFrancisco.

        10                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I think I

        11       forgot what I was going to say.  No.

        12                      I think Senator Volker mentioned

        13       in his last remarks exactly what I was going to

        14       point out earlier.  It was mentioned by Senator

        15       Galiber that this was the Court of Appeals way

        16       to take care of the situation where the mule

        17       gets too much of a sentence, and it gives the

        18       opportunity to reduce the sentences in that

        19       respect.

        20                      This is not a sentencing case.

        21       It's a case that says that if you want to prove

        22       that someone is guilty of one of the aggravated

        23       possession of drug offenses, you not only have











                                                             
1459

         1       to show that they knowingly possess the drug but

         2       they knowingly possess the quantity of drug that

         3       aggravates it into a higher degree.

         4                      So although there may be some

         5       lower court cases that say that we can prove it

         6       by circumstantial evidence, quite honestly I

         7       have no idea how you can prove by circumstantial

         8       evidence whether or not what is being possessed

         9       is .75 grams or 1.1 gram, and the one gram is

        10       the area where you aggravate it to a higher

        11       degree of possession.  You may be able to prove

        12       by circumstantial evidence that it is the

        13       highest degree of felony, but in the

        14       intermediary levels you can't do that.  It's

        15       virtually impossible.

        16                      And if someone knowingly

        17       possesses a drug, I think it's good public

        18       policy to punish them in accordance with how

        19       much drugs they actually carry; and if there is

        20       a risk by the mules of knowing whether or not

        21       they are going to get an A felony or a D felony,

        22       they might want to check to see how much they

        23       are carrying.











                                                             
1460

         1                      So I would suggest, basically,

         2       that this is an important law, and it is very

         3       important because all prosecutions from this

         4       point forward are impaired by this impossible

         5       burden to prove the aggravated offense -- not

         6       the sentence we're talking about, to prove the

         7       aggravated offense based upon the quantity of

         8       drugs actually in the possession of the

         9       individual.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        11       Dollinger.  And Senator Padavan is next.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        13       President.  I rise to speak in favor of this

        14       bill, although I have to -- I guess, as the

        15       Supreme Court has often times done, I concur in

        16       the result but disagree with the logic that

        17       drives us there.

        18                      First of all, let me make it

        19       clear.  I don't think the Court of Appeals did

        20       anything wrong in the Ryan decision.  As I

        21       understand that opinion, what they did is they

        22       looked at a statute that had been drafted by

        23       this Legislature, a law that had been approved











                                                             
1461

         1       by this Legislature, which contained the term

         2       "knowing," "possesses for sale," and then

         3       described an amount.  And what they did is they

         4       looked at a system of legislative judgments, and

         5       we said, "The more you possess the greater the

         6       penalty."

         7                      What actually happened then is

         8       the Court said we're going to take that

         9       "knowing" and we're going to apply it not only

        10       to the "knowing possess" but knowing possess a

        11       certain amount.

        12                      They took the inartful drafting,

        13       what I believe was the inartful drafting of that

        14       statute by this Legislature, and said, "We're

        15       going to interpret it to benefit the defendant,"

        16       which, from my point of view, is exactly what

        17       the Court of Appeals, which is the bastion of

        18       protecting the rights of criminal defendants

        19       should have done, and they should have applied a

        20       very strict standard in analyzing the statutory

        21       language and applying the term knowing to

        22       require that there be a knowing possession of a

        23       specific amount of the drug.











                                                             
1462

         1                      So from my point of view the

         2       Court of Appeals did what it was required to do

         3       and as a court designed to protect individual

         4       liberty, and that is to require this Legislature

         5       to be more artful in the drafting of a statute

         6       which had increasing penalties attached to the

         7       differences in the amount drugs that were

         8       possessed.

         9                      We are not in the position where

        10       we can correct that, where in the system of

        11       checks and balances in this state we have the

        12       clear power, the clear opportunity to do that.

        13       The system is working.

        14                      This bill, I believe, reflects an

        15       instance in which the system will continue to

        16       work.  We draft a statute perhaps not as

        17       artfully as we should.  The Court of Appeals

        18       looking to give the defendant the benefit of the

        19       doubt applies a very strict reading of the

        20       language of that statute, construes it in favor

        21       of the defendant, and says there was a failure

        22       to prove that they knew exactly how much of the

        23       drug they possessed.  Under those circumstances,











                                                             
1463

         1       they strike down the conviction as the

         2       constitution compels them to do.  We now are

         3       faced with the situation where we can remediate

         4       that inartful drafting of the statute to come to

         5       a conclusion as to what the knowing provision of

         6       that law ought to apply to.

         7                      So from my point of view, the

         8       Court of Appeals didn't do anything wrong.  The

         9       Court of Appeals did exactly what the

        10       constitution requires it to do, to interpret a

        11       somewhat inartfully drafted statute in favor of

        12       a defendant, and it comes back to our lap now to

        13       choose to remediate it.

        14                      I'd also point out and I guess I

        15       agree with one other factor I guess Senator

        16       Volker said, and, again, I'm agreeing with the

        17       conclusion here, but this bill will apply not

        18       only to violent drug users.  As I read it, the

        19       bill reaches down to criminal possession of

        20       marijuana in the fifth degree, which in my

        21       judgment is a very relatively small offense in

        22       our drug system.  I don't believe it's a felony,

        23       although I haven't had a chance to check the











                                                             
1464

         1       rule.  So it applies to the offenses of criminal

         2       possession of marijuana fifth through the first

         3       degrees as well as the criminal sale of

         4       marijuana in the third through the first

         5       degrees.

         6                      I think the point that Senator

         7       Galiber talked about, about the person who is

         8       possessing the drug either for their own use or

         9       may not know all the extent of the use, what we

        10       have done in this state, what we've decided to

        11       do, is increase the penalties as we decrease the

        12       amount of drugs that we need to possess.  The

        13       consequence of that is that the kind of

        14       statutory dispute that evolved in the Ryan case

        15       is going to be more and more prevalent as we try

        16       to push the penalties for smaller and smaller

        17       amounts -- increase the penalties for smaller

        18       and smaller amounts.  But I think we are

        19       affecting not only violent drug users, we are

        20       affecting everyone when we include it down to

        21       possessions, the simple possession of marijuana

        22       in the fifth degree.

        23                      I also agree -- and this is where











                                                             
1465

         1       I agree with Senator Galiber.  I think that in

         2       those smaller drug uses, in possession for

         3       personal consumption and use, we need a more

         4       enlighten policy in this state.  We don't need

         5       far more severe penalties.  What we need is an

         6       approach that says, "We're going to look at drug

         7       treatment first and try to deal with the problem

         8       of addiction rather than the problem of criminal

         9       offense."

        10                      But as we currently stand, unless

        11       we're going to make that wholehearted change, if

        12       we're going to continue down a road that says,

        13        "We're going to use a system of attaching

        14       greater penalties to lesser amounts," and we

        15       need the clarification, I believe this bill goes

        16       in the step of clarifying legislative intent

        17       consistent with our constitutional obligations.

        18       I think it does that.  I think it will in the

        19       greater penalties, in the more egregious drug

        20       offenders create greater prosecutions, greater

        21       chance for prosecution; and, therefore, I'm

        22       going to support the bill.

        23                      But the system didn't break











                                                             
1466

         1       down.  The system is functioning now as it

         2       properly should.  And I hope that we would turn

         3       our attention to dealing with the problem of

         4       possession and small sales and try to come up

         5       with a more therapeutic way of dealing with

         6       people whose only crime is that that they are

         7       addicted to drugs.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         9       Padavan.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.  The comments that we just heard from

        12       Senator Dollinger remind me of a similar problem

        13       that we experienced in 1976.  There aren't too

        14       many people here today who were here then, but I

        15       know Senator Galiber was, when we adopted

        16       something known as the Marijuana Reform Act.

        17                      That bill and that law had many

        18       things in it that I didn't approve of.  One of

        19       them, of course, was lessening the penalties for

        20       possession, but it also at the same time dealt

        21       with penalties for sale of various quantities of

        22       marijuana, and the bill passed both houses, was

        23       signed into law.











                                                             
1467

         1                      Shortly, thereafter, a major

         2       arrest of a large quantity, bales, actually,

         3       which probably could be weighed in tons, took

         4       place.  When that case was brought before the

         5       Court, a very clever defense attorney said,

         6        "Your Honor, I have the law.  It says weight of

         7       marijuana.  Now, in these bales of marijuana are

         8       seeds, twigs, stems and all other things and the

         9       prosecutor has not cited the actual weight of

        10       the marijuana, the component."

        11                      And the prosecutor explained to

        12       the Court that there was no way in the world

        13       that they could take these bales of marijuana to

        14       some laboratory without spending weeks and

        15       actually eliminate all those components.  So the

        16       case was thrown out, and we were presented with

        17       a major problem.  The district attorneys came to

        18       us as they are now, and the Governor came to us

        19       as he is now, and said you have to correct this

        20       issue, this problem, which may or may not have

        21       been an error on your part but, nevertheless, is

        22       a problem, and so we changed the law to

        23       aggregate weight, and we dealt with the











                                                             
1468

         1       problem.

         2                      So now, here again, we have a

         3       similar situation -- a little bit different but

         4       quite similar -- and so we must change the law

         5       to stay one step ahead of what, as Senator

         6       Volker has properly stated, would be a bonanza

         7       to defense attorneys reaching out to every one

         8       of these convicted drug pushers based on what is

         9       perceived by the Court today to be a flaw in our

        10       statute.

        11                      And I see no other choice but to

        12       act upon it expeditiously, both houses, get it

        13       to the Governor's desk, and do what we are

        14       supposed to do.

        15                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 11.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Very briefly,











                                                             
1469

         1       Mr. President.  May I have my name called?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

         3       Galiber.

         4                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Contrary to

         5       what has been said, it is my firm belief that

         6       the Ryan decision merely uses knowledge, if you

         7       will, to determine whether one spends a year

         8       mandated in jail or the rest of their life.  So

         9       I say the Ryan decision was carefully drafted.

        10       It is needed in the climate that we have, and I

        11       vote in opposition to the bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Galiber -- Read the last section, I guess.

        14       That's where -

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 11.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  He

        21       voted in the negative, Senator Galiber did.

        22       Senator Paterson.  Senator Waldon.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.  Nays











                                                             
1470

         1       3.  Senators Galiber, Paterson and Waldon

         2       recorded in the negative.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         4       bill is passed.  Senator Spano.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

         6       Smith in the negative.  Also Senator Santiago.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar number

        10       401, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number -

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Lay it

        13       aside.

        14                      We have a report of a standing

        15       committee, Senator Present.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's receive

        17       it.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

        19       Secretary will read the report of a standing

        20       committee.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears

        22       from the Committee on Consumer Protection

        23       reports the following bill directly for third











                                                             
1471

         1       reading:

         2                      Senate Bill Number 7068, an act

         3       to amend Chapter 509 of the Laws of 1992,

         4       amending the General Business Law, reported

         5       directly for third reading.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:

         7       Directly to third reading without objection.

         8                      Senator Present.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Would you

        10       recognize Senator Paterson.  I believe he has a

        11       privileged resolution.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Senator

        13       Paterson.

        14                      I think we did it.  Did you wish

        15       to speak to it, Senator Paterson?

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President, no.  I just wanted to acknowledge the

        18       person that the resolution was written for, but

        19       the person has left.  So I'd just like to thank

        20       you, Mr. President, for being here today.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  Thank

        22       you.  The resolution passed unanimously.

        23                      Are there any housekeeping











                                                             
1472

         1       measures on the floor?

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5       There being no further business, I move we

         6       adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:  The

         8       Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at

         9       11:00 a.m.

        10                      (Whereupon, at 5:55 p.m., Senate

        11       adjourned.)

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19