Regular Session - April 5, 1994
2147
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 5, 1994
11 4:02 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
20
21
22
23
2148
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Please take your
4 places. Ask the members to stand and the
5 visitors in the gallery to join me in saying the
6 Pledge of Allegiance.
7 (The assemblage repeated the
8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 There is no visiting clergy
10 today, so I would ask that we all bow our heads
11 in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed. )
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, April 4th. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon
18 designation of the Temporary President. The
19 Journal of Sunday, April 3rd, was read and
20 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
22 no objection, the Journal stands as approved.
23 Order of business: Presentation
2149
1 of petitions.
2 Messages from the Assembly.
3 Messages from the Governor.
4 Reports of standing committees.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Wright.
10 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
11 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 22,
12 I offer the following amendments to Calendar
13 Number 435, Senate Print Number 214-B, and ask
14 that said bill retain its place on the Third
15 Reading Calendar.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So
17 ordered.
18 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
19 Senator Farley, on page number 17, I offer the
20 following amendments to Calendar Number 468,
21 Senate Print Number 1593, and ask that said bill
22 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So
2150
1 ordered.
2 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
3 Senator Velella, I request that Calendar Number
4 472 be starred.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
6 starred at the request of the sponsor.
7 Senator Holland.
8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you.
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
10 on behalf of Senator Levy, I ask -- request that
11 Calendar Number 433, Senate Bill Number 80-B be
12 starred.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
14 starred at the request of the sponsor.
15 Substitutions?
16 THE SECRETARY: On page 13 of
17 today's calendar, Senator Velella moves to
18 discharge the Committee on Local Government from
19 Assembly Bill Number 9781, and substitute it for
20 the identical Calendar Number 348.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Substitution is ordered.
23 Senator Present.
2151
1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
2 I believe you have a privileged resolution at
3 the desk. May we have the title read and acted
4 upon.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
8 Resolution, by Senator Kuhl, mourning the death
9 of Lynn J. Morse, chairman of the Steuben County
10 Legislature, who died Saturday, April 2nd, 1994.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
12 is on the resolution. All of those in favor
13 signify by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye.")
15 Opposed nay.
16 (There was no response. )
17 The resolution is adopted.
18 Senator Present, the calendar.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
20 can we take up the non-controversial calendar
21 please.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
23 will read.
2152
1 THE SECRETARY: On page 11,
2 Calendar Number 233, by Senator Holland, Senate
3 Bill Number 2839-B, an act to amend the Social
4 Services Law.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would
6 Senator Holland be kind enough to give us one
7 day?
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
10 much.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside for the day.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 237, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 1396-A,
15 an act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
16 relation to the definition of veteran.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
18 section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2153
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 383, by member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly
6 Bill Number 16...
7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside for
8 Senator Waldon.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
10 bill aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 405, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number
13 147...
14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
16 bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 438, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
19 6864-A, an act to amend the Highway Law.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for
21 the day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside for the day.
2154
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 445, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 574-A,
3 an act to amend the General Municipal Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
5 section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 448, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number
16 2487-A, General Municipal Law, in relation to
17 service award programs for volunteer
18 firefighters.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
20 section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2155
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 458, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 6737,
8 authorize the town of Huntington in the county
9 of Suffolk to discontinue the use of park land.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
11 home rule message at the desk.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 473, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number
22 6890, Insurance Law, in relation to forged
23 insurance identification cards.
2156
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
2 section.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside,
4 please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 476, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number
9 6509, Public Authorities Law, in relation to the
10 Onondaga County Resource Recovery Agency.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
12 section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 477, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 6715,
23 Religious Corporations Law.
2157
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
2 section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll. )
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 526, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 7239,
13 General Municipal Law, in relation to the
14 designation of economic development zones.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
16 section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for
23 Senator Galiber.
2158
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 Senator Present, that completes
4 the non-controversial calendar. What's your
5 pleasure?
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
7 let's take up the controversial calendar,
8 please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
10 will call.
11 THE SECRETARY: On page 14,
12 Calendar Number 383, by member of the Assembly
13 Sanders.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Assembly Bill
16 Number 168-A, Executive Law, in relation to
17 information for crime victims.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
19 section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
2159
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 405, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number
7 1475-B, Social Services Law and the Workers'
8 Compensation Law.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
13 minute.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
15 temporarily.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside temporarily.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 473, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number
20 6890, Insurance Law, in relation to forged
21 insurance identification cards.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last
23 section.
2160
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 526, by Senator Marino.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Could
12 Senator Galiber get one day on this bill,
13 please? All right.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside for the day.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 can we stand at ease for a few moments.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
20 will stand at ease for a few moments.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
22 can we take up Calendar 405, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
2161
1 will call Calendar Number 405.
2 THE SECRETARY: On page 16,
3 Calendar Number 405, by Senator Holland, Senate
4 Bill Number 1475-B, an act to amend the Social
5 Services Law and the Workers' Compensation Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Gold.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
9 this bill by Senator Holland deals with the
10 Social Services placing a lien against Workers'
11 Comp. on some benefits -- Senator Markowitz?
12 (Commissioner Halperin entered
13 the chamber.)
14 The best example of a homeless
15 person in the world.
16 As I was saying before the czar
17 walked in, this bill would allow the Department
18 of Social Services to place a lien against
19 Workmen's Compensation benefits for the
20 repayment of public assistance, and we have
21 debated this in the past, and Senator Galiber
22 and myself, Senators Leichter, Markowitz,
23 Mendez, Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, Smith and
2162
1 Stavisky have voted in the negative and, unless
2 anybody else -- Senator Waldon has also opposed
3 the legislation. If nobody else wants to say
4 anything, maybe we just want to go to a vote.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
13 the negative on -- those recorded in the
14 negative on Calendar Number 405 are Senators
15 Galiber, Gold, Markowitz, Ohrenstein,
16 Oppenheimer, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 41, nays
17 7.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 Senator Present, that completes
21 the controversial calendar.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Recognize
23 Senator Levy.
2163
1 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr.
2 President. There will be a meeting of the
3 Transportation Committee in the Majority
4 Conference Room at 3 -- at 4:30.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
6 will be an immediate meeting at 4:30 of the
7 Transportation Committee in the Room 332,
8 Majority Conference Room.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
10 think Senator Oppenheimer was about -- was about
11 to ask recognition of the Chair from her seat.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, I'm
13 standing. I have a motion to discharge Senate
14 Bill 6739.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator,
16 there is a motion to discharge at the desk. The
17 clerk will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
19 Oppenheimer, Senate Bill Number 6739, an act to
20 amend the Penal Law and the General Business
21 Law, in relation to assault weapons, and to
22 amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the Penal
23 Law, in relation to enhancing the penalties for
2164
1 the criminal sale of firearms and providing for
2 the repeal of certain provisions of the Penal
3 Law upon expiration thereof.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
5 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer.
6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you.
7 This bill is the same as the
8 Assembly Bill A. 7118-C which was passed in the
9 Assembly on January 17th of this year, and I
10 guess none of us need to be reminded, but
11 currently the law imposes no significant
12 restrictions on ammunition capacity of any rifle
13 or shotgun or pistol and -- nor any restriction
14 on possession of magazines or clips.
15 These -- these are needed
16 restrictions because they have -- these guns
17 have the capacity to fire very large quantities
18 of ammunition without reloading.
19 As you're probably aware also,
20 you know that outside of New York City, you
21 don't need a license, and so in the rest of the
22 state anyone over 18, with identification, who
23 is going to sign a form that states that they
2165
1 are not a felon, that they have not been
2 adjudicated mentally defective, that they have
3 not been dishonorably discharged, that they
4 aren't an unlawful drug user, that they're not
5 an illegal alien nor person who's renounced his
6 or her citizenship, they can leave that store
7 with a rifle or a shotgun, including any semi
8 automatic assault weapon -- would you get the
9 noise down a little bit?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator's
11 point is well taken. Ladies and gentlemen,
12 let's show a little respect to the Senator's
13 motion.
14 Senator Oppenheimer.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And indeed
16 -- I'm sorry. Indeed, some of our Senators
17 have gone in and just purchased guns without any
18 identification at all, simply saying that they
19 are not mentally incompetent and that they
20 haven't been in jail, and I mean anybody who
21 wants to buy an illegal gun is going to sign
22 that and it doesn't matter what the truth of the
23 matter is, they will simply lie and sign the
2166
1 form.
2 The Assembly bill, which is our
3 bill, bans the possession of about 40 -- 35 or
4 40 rifles and pistols by brand and model
5 number. It also bans, most importantly, even
6 more importantly, copies of these rifles and
7 shotguns and pistols because we all know what
8 happens when a particular model like an Uzi or
9 AK-47 or Beretta, once they are banned, then
10 simply models somehow designed come out exactly
11 like them that do -- having that same capacity
12 or more.
13 In addition, I guess most
14 importantly is that it defines -- this bill
15 defines what an assault weapon is. Further, it
16 limits the number of bullets in an ammunition
17 clip. In rifles and shotguns, it limits it to
18 six shots, actually five in the clip and one in
19 the gun, and with a pistol it's limited to six
20 -- ten shots.
21 Now, most important for many of
22 our people who very legally and very enjoyably
23 use their guns for target shooting or possess
2167
1 them because they are collectors, it should be
2 noted that these people are exempt. If they are
3 target shooters, marksmen, collectors of guns,
4 they can get a license and they will be exempt.
5 I think this is very important.
6 I mean I, for one, certainly have long been
7 opposed to guns, and yet when someone came to my
8 office last year and said he was a marksman and
9 he had a very finely tuned semi-assault weapon
10 which he used when he went to competitions and
11 what was important was that he needed to have a
12 second gun in the car with him because these
13 very finely tuned machines are liable to break
14 during competition and, therefore, asked me to
15 go to bat for him so that he could have two of
16 these guns when he goes to competition, and
17 indeed I did. I mean this is a very valid use,
18 and we do want to support our hunters and those
19 people who are using guns for sport in target
20 shooting.
21 Now, recent events in Nassau
22 County and in Brooklyn have provided the impetus
23 and really a gruesome testimony -- testament to
2168
1 why we need regulation of semi-assault weapons.
2 None of us will forget that on December 7, 1993,
3 Colin Ferguson boarded the 5:33 Long Island Rail
4 Road train out of Penn Station and opened fire,
5 killing six people and wounding 23. Ferguson
6 pumped 30 rounds out of his Ruger P-9 9
7 millimeter automatic pistol in less than four
8 minutes.
9 More recently on March 2nd, 1994,
10 Rashid Baz opened fire on a van of 15 Hasidic
11 students on a ramp on the Brooklyn Bridge. Four
12 teenagers are injured, one is killed, I believe
13 another maybe. The police estimate that Baz
14 fired some 30 shots in the time it took him to
15 cross the Brooklyn Bridge. In his home, police
16 discovered quite an arsenal: A 9 millimeter
17 Cobra hand gun with two 50-round clips; a Block
18 17 semi-automatic pistol; a fully loaded "street
19 sweeper" 12-gauge shotgun, and that gun does
20 just what its name is, it sweeps the street.
21 You don't have to take any aim. You just let it
22 loose. And they also found a .380 semi
23 automatic pistol.
2169
1 These are but two of the
2 incidents in which assault weapons, weapons of
3 mass destruction have been the weapon of choice
4 for criminals who indiscriminately kill. Semi
5 automatic weapons, often modified versions of
6 military style issued weapons, are specifically
7 designed to kill indiscriminately and at close
8 range. They are made for war. We are now
9 facing a war on our streets, not on the
10 battlefield, or rather the battlefield has now
11 become our streets.
12 They're often equipped with
13 magazines providing them with an unreasonably
14 large ammunition capacity. This allows for
15 short-range quick firing without the necessity
16 of ever having to take any aim. Unregulated
17 possession of very large capacity weapons
18 obviously poses a danger to the public and law
19 enforcement. Waiting until the next Long Island
20 Rail Road massacre or Brooklyn Bridge shooting
21 will be too late. We must restrict the sale of
22 these weapons of death.
23 In New York City, in New Jersey,
2170
1 in Connecticut they have outlawed semi-assault
2 weapons. We should join our neighboring states
3 and stop the proliferation of these dangerous
4 weapons and their ammunition. Indeed, our
5 governor, about two or three months ago, went
6 down to Virginia to speak with Governor Wilder
7 there in order to halt the enormous number of
8 weapons that were coming up to New York from
9 Virginia. We are doing what we can with our
10 neighbors who have not taken the steps that
11 Connecticut and New Jersey have taken.
12 Machine guns have long been
13 outlawed in New York. Now, why did we do that?
14 Why did we outlaw machine guns? Well, it's for
15 the very same reasons that I'm speaking today.
16 There's absolutely no lawful use for machine
17 guns or for semi-assault weapons. They're a
18 threat to public safety and to our law
19 enforcement, and we have to take the same steps
20 to minimize the number of these dangerous
21 weapons on our streets that we took when we
22 outlawed machine guns.
23 The arms race is now in the
2171
1 streets. The cop on the street knows what the
2 -- what the Senate Majority apparently does not
3 know because they have not permitted this on the
4 floor, this bill, but criminals are much better
5 armed today than they have ever been before. In
6 March of this year, the New York Police
7 Department moved to match the fire power of the
8 modern criminal by equipping its new recruits
9 with the Glock 15-round 9 millimeter semi
10 automatic as its standard issue weapon. Each
11 officer carries three 15-round clips. Now, this
12 is quite a contrast with the six-shot .38
13 revolvers that we're replacing, that were
14 replaced by these new weapons.
15 Despite the hyperbole of the NRA,
16 this is a very, very reasonable bill. It would
17 only restrict a very limited and specific class
18 of weapons, those that have the capacity to fire
19 large quantities of ammunition without reloading
20 or which -- or which are capable of rapid
21 reloading. It would permit possession and use
22 of assault weapons for organized marksmanship
23 competition, and for target firing at ranges
2172
1 that are owned by gun clubs. It will be
2 required that the individual owning the gun
3 belong to a gun club.
4 This proposed assault weapon ban
5 does enjoy very widespread support among law
6 enforcement organizations. It's really
7 fascinating to see the interest groups in
8 support, and it makes you understand that this
9 is no -- these are not Alice-in-Wonderland types
10 of people. We're talking the Association of
11 Chiefs of Police support this bill; the
12 Captains' Endowment Association; the New York
13 Conference of Mayors and Municipal Officials;
14 the Council of Churches; Detective Endowment
15 Association; District Attorneys' Association of
16 New York State; Law Enforcement Council; League
17 of Women Voters; Lieutenants' Benevolent
18 Association; Metropolitan Police Conference; New
19 City Housing Patrolmen's Benevolent Association;
20 New York City Transit Patrolmen's Association;
21 New York State Federation of Police; Patrol
22 men's Benevolent Association of the city of New
23 York; Police Conference of New York; Sergeants'
2173
1 Benevolent Association; Veteran Police
2 Association -- the list goes on.
3 We really have to respond. Our
4 law enforcement officers are saying they're
5 fearful. In fact, not only police, parents,
6 folks everywhere are saying that they're fear
7 ful. I put in a bill several years ago, about
8 five or six years ago, a very strong ban on
9 semi-assault weapons, and I was told not to
10 expect any action on the bill, and nothing has
11 happened, but things have gotten increasingly
12 worse and our streets are increasingly armed and
13 I think all of America is now telling us that
14 they're fearful of the violence on our streets;
15 and most of us here are mothers and fathers and
16 I think we should care that guns are killing our
17 children. It is the number one cause of death
18 for several age groups. It's the leading cause
19 of death for both black and white teen-age boys
20 is gunshot wounds. Firearms kill more people
21 between the ages of 15 and 24 than all natural
22 causes combined. An average of 14 children and
23 teenagers are killed with guns each day.
2174
1 I'll wrap up now. At any rate,
2 it could be one of our children that's on that
3 railroad or in that car and these weapons are
4 merely modified versions of military weapons.
5 They were never meant to be used in non
6 military -- in a non-military arena. They have
7 increased at an alarming rate in the last few
8 years on the streets of this state and in our
9 nation. Our police are outgunned and our
10 citizens are panicked and like the Brady bill,
11 this is a small bill, but it's a first step and
12 I think it's a step that is urgently needed to
13 quell the fears of society-at-large in our
14 nation and in our state.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Other
17 members wishing to speak on the issue? Senator
18 Padavan.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would Senator
20 Oppenheimer respond to a question or two?
21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Sure.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, my
23 questions are purely technical in nature in
2175
1 regard to the specific bill before us. As I
2 believe you explained, there is a specific list
3 of items, assault weapons, contained on page 3
4 of the bill. However, you also indicate that,
5 as it says later on in this proposed legisla
6 tion, that individuals would be allowed to
7 license such weapons assuming they were involved
8 in legitimate rifle clubs or competitive marks
9 manship, is that correct? Did I understand you?
10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is
11 correct, Senator.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, are
13 you aware of the fact that several of the
14 weapons on this list -- and one of the most
15 egregious ones, in my mind, is the "street
16 sweeper", an automatic/semi-automatic shotgun,
17 was recently outlawed by the Congress, by the
18 federal government, so you could not license
19 it? You can't even have it any longer. That's
20 something that happened quite recently and since
21 the Assembly acted on this bill.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes,
23 Senator.
2176
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you aware
2 of that?
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes,
4 Senator. There are, I believe, certain amend
5 ments that would have to be made.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: To this bill.
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: To this
8 bill. For example.
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: So, Senator, if
10 I may understand what you're saying: You're
11 saying this bill would have to be amended so
12 that it would conform to what is now federal law
13 regard to several specific weapons including the
14 "street sweeper", is that a fair statement to
15 make?
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If the
17 federal law supersedes our law, yes.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: O.K. Well, I
19 think you're absolutely right, Senator, that it
20 would have to be amended, that in its present
21 form it's defective to that extent.
22 The other question I'd like to -
23 to raise, Senator, you mentioned the fact that
2177
1 New York City already has a statute dealing with
2 these weapons and that this bill would be
3 compatible. I believe that's more or less what
4 you said and, if you didn't, you could correct
5 me.
6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I did not
7 say, Senator, that it would be compatible. I
8 mentioned in my statement at the beginning that
9 there are three places where -
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you aware
11 that -
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- where,
13 surrounding us -
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -
16 Connecticut, New Jersey and the southern part of
17 our state do have bans.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: But New York
19 City has a ban, no licensure for registration,
20 or ownership for any reason for most of the
21 weapons if not all of the weapons on your list;
22 so what we would have is in the city of New
23 York, should this ever become law in its amended
2178
1 form, and we've already agreed it has to be
2 amended, the city of New York would be different
3 than the rest of the state. That is a
4 contradiction, am I correct, or certainly a
5 difference; perhaps not a contradiction, but a
6 difference? Would you agree?
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We have
8 continual -- I would not call them contradic
9 tions. I would say that at a lower level of
10 government, we have permitted normally more
11 stringent rules than we ever adopted at a higher
12 level of government. Therefore, in my county,
13 for example, we have item pricing -
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Does this bill
15 provide for that?
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Throughout
17 the state?
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Does this bill
19 provide for that?
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: More
21 stringent regulation than that we put down?
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One would
2179
1 assume that is always available.
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: I take your
3 word for it; you say you assume it's so, then I
4 accept that, although I can't see it specific
5 ally mentioned.
6 Now, one other thing you
7 mentioned in your presentation, Senator, and
8 again I want to preface my question by saying I
9 do not disagree with the basic thrust, I'm
10 simply pointing out that this bill has a lot of
11 problems with it that have to be addressed. You
12 mention that the individual on the Long Island
13 Rail Road and also that individual who killed a
14 number of young Hasidic men on the Brooklyn
15 Bridge possessed a semi-automatic weapon. In
16 both instances the weapon that was used was a
17 semi-automatic pistol and in both instances was
18 illegal. Are you aware of that fact?
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, I am.
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: So while the
21 point is made that we have a problem with regard
22 to semi-automatic weapons, in those two specific
23 instances that you cited, those weapons were
2180
1 already illegal, both in the city of New York
2 and in the other case outside the city of New
3 York and, while I think it's important for us to
4 recognize since you've acknowledged that fact,
5 that unless something is done on a federal level
6 we will continue to have that kind of a
7 problem. Would you accept that as a matter of
8 judgment?
9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator
10 Padavan, I know of your bill in the -
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: And I'm not
12 talking about -
13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And I know
14 your convictions.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: And I'm not
16 talking about my bill or any other bill or your
17 bill except the one you're trying to discharge.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Right. I
19 would say that it would be optimal for the
20 federal government to pass the legislation.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: As they've
22 already done as we discussed before with several
23 of these weapons that we discussed; just
2181
1 recently, but they've done it.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Agreed.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Do you agree
4 that that would be the preferable vehicle so
5 that there would not be the importation of these
6 weapons from one state to another where someone
7 could buy it in one state and bring it into New
8 York; do you agree that that would be
9 preferable?
10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There is no
11 question that that is preferable.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you very
13 much.
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And if I
15 could add, I would support Senator Padavan's
16 bill. I believe that this bill has a few added
17 measures. I would also like to comment that it
18 is common to do chapter amendments in the
19 Legislature when they are needed, so that could
20 be attended to through a chapter amendment in
21 response to the original question of Senator
22 Padavan.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there
2182
1 any other members wishing to speak on the motion
2 to discharge?
3 Senator Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 I think Senator Padavan's
7 comments with respect to Congress acting on the
8 "street sweeper" and the continual progression
9 of the debate on limitations on assault weapons
10 brings up a good point. I think that's just the
11 kind of debate we ought to have, and there's one
12 way to have it, vote in favor of this motion,
13 put it before the house, and then the issues of
14 whether we're preempted by the federal
15 government or whether we should wait for the
16 federal government to act on this and do nothing
17 ourselves and stand by while people are killed
18 in our streets and yet we continue to rely on
19 the federal government to do it while other
20 states have taken the initiative and done it
21 themselves, that would be a fruitful topic of
22 discussion. I'm sure there'd be a lively debate
23 over that as we talk about whether we should be
2183
1 out front of the federal government as leaders
2 or whether we should simply follow an agenda set
3 by someone else. I think that that's a debate
4 that this body ought to have.
5 Mr. President, I rise because 79
6 days ago I stood in front of this house and
7 asked that a measure be considered that would
8 advance a bill to ban or control, restrict
9 access to assault weapons. 79 days have passed;
10 I've been keeping my vigil with the little sign
11 that's on my lapel hoping that this would prompt
12 the conscience of those who believe that we
13 ought to do something to reduce our health care
14 costs, that we ought to reduce the propensity
15 for violence in our society and that we ought to
16 do something to protect the people in our
17 streets.
18 It hasn't happened yet, and I
19 marvel that on the day we came here on January
20 15th, we came here in honor of Dr. King and
21 yesterday we celebrated the anniversary of Dr.
22 King's death. 78 days have transpired in
23 between, and while so much seemed to be
2184
1 happening at the federal level where Congress
2 was moving to ban possession of "street
3 sweepers", the New York State Senate was doing
4 nothing.
5 It seems to me this is a very,
6 very simple issue. New York is now one of six
7 states in the country where guns claim more
8 lives than automobiles. Remember what happened
9 a decade ago when we became concerned about the
10 rising incidence of young people using alcohol
11 and driving a motor vehicle? This body, this
12 Legislature, enacted legislation that increased
13 the age of majority at which someone could
14 consume alcohol, and the reason for that was
15 because alcohol, when combined with driving, was
16 extremely dangerous to our young people and we
17 made a determination that we were better off
18 restricting their access until they grew up to
19 be age 21 and reached a point where they could
20 better handle alcohol and understand what it
21 means to drive an automobile under the influence
22 of alcohol. It seems to me that's a very, very
23 simple paradigm for what we ought to do here.
2185
1 In 1992 in this state firearm
2 deaths numbered approximately 2345 while motor
3 vehicle deaths were 1959. 20 percent more
4 people died from use of firearms than they do
5 from automobiles. Motor vehicle deaths have
6 been steadily declining largely because this
7 Legislature intervened and took alcohol away
8 from those who were irresponsible in using it.
9 Gun deaths, on the contrary, are going just the
10 other way. They're increasing, and it seems to
11 me that the consequence of allowing free access
12 to assault weapons is that they oftentimes end
13 up in the hands of people who are prone to
14 violence, prone to bitterness, prone to hate and
15 prone to killing.
16 If you look at our system of the
17 way we handle the consequences of assault
18 weapons, keep one thing in mind, if I told you
19 that there was a way to reduce the health care
20 costs in this state, to significantly reduce it,
21 to reduce the consequences, the consequences to
22 families of gunshot wounds, I'm sure everybody
23 in this chamber would jump at the chance to do
2186
1 it.
2 It seems to me it's a simple jump
3 to conclude that, if you don't have access to a
4 weapon of multi-person violence, if you don't
5 have access to a weapon that can gun down a
6 dozen people at a time, we'd decrease the number
7 of people who suffer gunshot wounds, the number
8 of people who are showing up in our emergency
9 wards in the major metropolitan centers and
10 throughout the state to be treated for gunshot
11 wounds, we'd save money, we'd reduce our health
12 care cost. It's that simple.
13 I recognize that restricting
14 access to assault weapons will not result in a
15 reduction in crime. I admit that. That's not a
16 simple equation. I don't believe it, but I do
17 believe it will do one thing. Assault weapons
18 are weapons of increased violence. By pulling
19 the trigger, by increasing the volume of spray
20 from a weapon, you can kill more people. It's a
21 difficult thing; it's a difficult thing, a
22 difficult concept to recognize that what we're
23 doing is reducing the propensity for violence,
2187
1 the number of people who would be killed.
2 Yesterday in Rochester, I sat at
3 the Martin Luther King Commission luncheon next
4 to Walter Pontroy, who was the delegate from the
5 District of Columbia to the United States
6 Congress for 20 years. He told me a story about
7 a killing in Washington in which ten people were
8 shot with an automatic, with a semi-automatic
9 weapon because one of the ten people in the
10 crowd was apparently an alleged drug dealer with
11 whom they were having a turf war. Nine innocent
12 people died in that spray of gunfire. If the
13 individual who was pulling that trigger did not
14 have access to assault weapons, the chance that
15 those other nine people would die would have
16 been much, much smaller.
17 In conclusion, Mr. President,
18 I've spoken about this issue before. I'll
19 continue to wait through Day 79 and 70 -- and 80
20 and 81, and perhaps Day 100, and I'll always
21 marvel at what legislators have done in the
22 hundred days when they had the will to do it,
23 how a Senate and a House of Representatives and
2188
1 a United States Congress could begin the process
2 of taking the country out of a depression in a
3 mere hundred days, how they can change the
4 course of an entire country and an entire
5 generation because they have the legislative
6 will to do it.
7 What we lack here is that will.
8 I can't understand, Mr. President, our love
9 affair with guns. I don't know how long we're
10 going to have to have the continuing nightmare
11 of untold deaths before we wake up and realize
12 that we've got to stop -- start restricting
13 access to dangerous weapons of violence and
14 killing.
15 Let's let the nightmare stop, the
16 new day begin. Let this bill be debated on the
17 merits and let's give the people of this state
18 what they're demanding and what they know will
19 provide real protection to them, a ban and a
20 restriction on assault weapons.
21 Thank you, Mr. President.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the
23 affirmative.
2189
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Anyone
2 else wish to speak on the motion to discharge?
3 All those -- Senator Oppenheimer.
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
5 President, I just want to say a couple of words
6 before we close.
7 I was just looking at some
8 statistics, and I think we should pause and
9 think about this before we take this vote. In
10 1991, and that's just one year, there were
11 38,000 people killed by firearms in homicides,
12 suicides and accidents. That's more than a
13 hundred people a day. It's also more than the
14 total number of Americans that were killed in
15 battle in the Korean War. If that isn't a
16 shocking statistic!
17 And here's another point that I
18 didn't make earlier. In 1992, hand guns were
19 used in murders of 33 people in Britain, 36
20 people in Sweden, 97 people in Switzerland, 128
21 in Canada, 13 in Australia, 60 in Japan and over
22 13,000 in our country.
23 I don't know if many of you saw
2190
1 this in the newspaper on Friday, this past
2 Friday, April 1st, but this was a picture of the
3 two fathers of the Japanese students who were
4 slain in Los Angeles and, while they were slain
5 not with semi-automatic weapons, these two
6 gentlemen -- and my heart goes out to them -
7 they suggest that Americans should stop shooting
8 people.
9 I think we have to start
10 controlling guns for our own self-interest. I
11 hear that, in Japan, they're now warning people
12 about coming to America as tourists. I think
13 America and New York State would make a good
14 start, at least New York State, with this bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 question is on the motion to discharge.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the
18 affirmative.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
20 in favor aye.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in
22 the negative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
2191
1 nay? Clerk will record a party line vote.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 21, nays 34,
3 party vote.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
5 defeated.
6 Senator Libous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 Could I star one of my bills?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
11 Certainly.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senate 6219-A,
13 Calendar 249.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
15 will record a sponsor's star on Calendar Number
16 249.
17 Senator Stavisky.
18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
19 without objection, I should like to be recorded
20 in the negative on Calendar Number 405.
21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Same.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection. Senator Solomon, same? Without
2192
1 objection.
2 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Connor.
5 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, I'd like
6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
7 on Calendar 405 also.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection.
10 Senator Montgomery.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, may I
12 have unanimous consent to be in the negative on
13 Calendar Number 405?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
15 objection.
16 Senator Gold.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Before the
18 leader takes over, I think Senator Onorato may
19 want to be recognized.
20 On behalf of Senator Mendez, may
21 I remind everybody immediate Democratic
22 Conference in the Democratic Minority room as
23 soon as we complete session.
2193
1 Senator Onorato?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Onorato.
4 SENATOR ONORATO: No, no, O.K.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Farley.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 On behalf Senator Skelos, I wish
10 to call up his bill, Senate Print 1958-A,
11 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
12 desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
16 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 1958-A, an act to
17 amend the Executive Law.
18 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
19 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
20 bill was passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
2194
1 reconsideration. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
4 now offer the following amendments.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amend
6 ments received.
7 Senator Present.
8 SENATOR PRESENT: All cleaned up?
9 Mr. President, there being no further business,
10 I move that we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00
11 a.m.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
13 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11 a.m.
14 (Whereupon at 4:52 p.m., the
15 Senate adjourned. )
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23