Regular Session - April 14, 1994
2532
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 April 14, 1994
10 1:43 p.m.
11
12
13 REGULAR SESSION
14
15
16
17 LT. NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
19
20
21
22
23
2533
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 All please rise for the Pledge of
5 Allegiance to the flag.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 In the absence of clergy, may we
9 please bow our heads in a moment of silence.
10 Reading of the Journal.
11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
12 Wednesday, April 13th. The Senate met pursuant
13 to adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon
14 designation of the Temporary President. The
15 Journal of Tuesday, April 12th, was read and
16 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing
18 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
19 read.
20 Petitions; messages; motions.
21 Senator Libous.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
23 on behalf of my colleague, Senator Lack, on page
2534
1 14, I offer the following amendments to Calendar
2 Number 503, Senate Print Number 3599, and ask
3 that said bill retain its place on the Third
4 Reading Calendar.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
6 objection.
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Goodman.
10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President,
11 I was away from the chamber on Senate business
12 when the votes on Calendar Number 354 and 396
13 were taken. I'd like to have the records
14 reflect that had I been in the chamber at the
15 time of those votes, I would have been recorded
16 in the negative on those two bills.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
18 objection, the record will so indicate.
19 Any other motions, resolutions?
20 Senator Present.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take up
22 the non-controversial calendar, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
2535
1 Secretary will read the non-controversial
2 calendar.
3 THE SECRETARY: On page 11,
4 Calendar Number 434, by Senator Levy.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill
6 aside for the day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
8 aside for the day.
9 THE SECRETARY: On page 15,
10 Calendar Number 569, by Senator Larkin, Senate
11 Bill Number 7557.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day
13 on this?
14 SENATOR LARKIN: You may have a
15 day.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
18 aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 570, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number
21 4102-A, an act to amend the Agriculture and
22 Markets Law and the Town Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2536
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 571, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4753,
12 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
13 Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
23 is passed.
2537
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 573, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7545,
3 Agriculture and Markets Law, and the
4 Environmental Conservation Law.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 574, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7546,
10 Agriculture and Markets Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 575, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7547,
23 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
2538
1 Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 576, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7548,
14 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to
15 including livestock management in the integrated
16 pest management program.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2539
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 Senator Present, that concludes
5 the non-controversial calendar.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
7 can we take up Calendar 573.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
9 Secretary will read Calendar 573.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 573, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7545,
12 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
13 and the Environmental Conservation Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 -- Senator Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, if you will
17 bear with me just one second, please. Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Gold, on the bill.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator Kuhl
22 yield to one question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2540
1 Kuhl, would you yield?
2 SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Sponsor
4 yields.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. This is a
6 plan identical to the bill we passed last year
7 and vetoed by the Governor.
8 SENATOR KUHL: That's correct.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, on
10 the bill.
11 We did pass this last year with
12 only one dissent. I notice that there were -
13 there were some letters dated just a couple days
14 ago in opposition, one from Oneida-Herkimer
15 Solid Waste Authority which was sent to Senator
16 Hoffmann, and one from the Onondaga County
17 Resource Recovery Agency, again to Senator
18 Hoffmann, and -- but aside from that, I don't
19 seem to have anything else that's on the bill
20 aside from the veto message.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2541
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42, nays 3,
6 Senators Espada, Gold and Leichter recorded in
7 the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
12 there comes that time when we stand at ease.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
14 Senate will stand at ease.
15 (The Senate stood at ease from
16 1:51 to 2:50 p.m.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 Present.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
20 can we call up Calendar Number 552, please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
22 will come to order. Secretary will read
23 Calendar Number 552.
2542
1 THE SECRETARY: On page 15,
2 Calendar Number 552, by Senator Tully, Senate
3 Bill Number 6775-A, an act to amend the Public
4 Health Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Gold.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, if
8 my distinguished colleague from Nassau would
9 just give a brief explanation since it was an
10 add on, at least to alert people as to which
11 bill we're dealing with.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Tully.
14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 This bill provides that there
17 will be direct medical intervention at the most
18 effective point in preventing HIV transmission
19 to a child, the first prenatal visit during
20 which the pregnant woman is counseled on HIV and
21 offered HIV testing.
22 The amendments would add new
23 requirements that, at the first prenatal visit
2543
1 and upon delivery for those who have had no
2 prenatal care, every new mother would be
3 informed, one, that a sample of the infant's
4 blood as currently required by the state DOH may
5 be tested for HIV along with other congenital
6 diseases; two, that the HIV antibody test while
7 used for health research purposes is not
8 medically valid for a diagnosis of HIV infection
9 in her own child, and three, medically
10 appropriate tests will be conducted upon a
11 mother's request in order to accurately
12 determine and inform her of her HIV status or of
13 that of her infant.
14 Basically, Mr. President, the
15 current purpose of the existing study is to see
16 if the mother has the HIV virus. It does not
17 test the baby, and the test is not done on every
18 baby. In 1988, they missed 10,500 babies
19 because they couldn't get enough blood. The
20 current test is not a diagnostic test approved
21 by the FDA but is a research test to acquire
22 data.
23 This, Mr. President, will act to
2544
1 preserve the health of all of the infants in
2 this state who were born with AIDS, roughly
3 amounting to 1900 in this state out of the
4 300,000 babies born each year. Of that 1900,
5 roughly 250 to 450 will be HIV-infected and
6 that's approximately one HIV-infected baby born
7 every day. These infants could be prevented
8 from receiving HIV from their mothers with this
9 legislation, and I urge all my colleagues to
10 join me in its support.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 Mr. President, there are certain
16 catch words that are very politically sensitive
17 today, as we all know, and I was watching
18 television last night, and I saw some AIDS
19 activists disrupting a town hall meeting of
20 Mayor Giuliani. We know that we've had
21 incidents in this chamber, and I know that there
22 isn't one person in government who isn't
23 sensitive to the fact that AIDS and HIV and this
2545
1 whole issue is something that threatens
2 everybody in our society, and we ought to be
3 doing something about it.
4 Having said that, Senator Tully,
5 I think there are certain things that ought to
6 be out here. First of all, there is a bill
7 sponsored in this house, I believe by Senator
8 Velella, and sponsored in the Assembly by
9 Assemblywoman Mettie Mayersohn, which deals with
10 the subject of testing and deals with the issue
11 of whether or not, if a child has the HIV virus,
12 it should be told to the mother whether
13 treatment should be happening.
14 This is an issue that is debated
15 as to whether or not, what is it, AZT, ATZ, does
16 what its advocates say it does or whether or not
17 it is more dangerous to give it to infants than
18 not give it. There was a television program I
19 saw about a week ago where there was medical
20 testimony being given which suggested that HIV
21 alone doesn't even cause AIDS. There was
22 testimony given to the fact that, or the
23 allegation that there have been people who have
2546
1 had AIDS who have been cured -- the word "cure"
2 was used -- by a process that is being used and
3 tested in Europe, but obviously it's always more
4 difficult in America to get certain things
5 tested.
6 Now, I say all of that, Senator
7 Tully, because I'm distressed that we're
8 debating your bill for only one reason. I have
9 no problem saying in public what I say behind
10 your back, Senator Tully. I think that this
11 bill is a sincere effort on your part to deal
12 with an issue, but I think that Assemblywoman
13 Mayersohn and Senator Velella are just as
14 sincerely involved in this, and I think that
15 perhaps there ought to be some way of putting
16 these bills together or having some middle
17 ground.
18 The suggestion, I think, has been
19 made, at least in the political rhetoric, that
20 your bill is in some way a different answer to
21 the problem of Assemblyman -- Assemblywoman
22 Mayersohn. She does not believe that. She
23 believes that it's -- that there is ground that
2547
1 is missing, so I really feel that it's a shame
2 that we're debating it this way. It's just too
3 significant an issue to be, I believe,
4 politicized, and I'm not suggesting you're doing
5 that, Senator Tully. I don't, you know, charge
6 you with any -- anything other than good faith.
7 SENATOR TULLY: Perhaps I can
8 explain it to you a little better than I did
9 before.
10 SENATOR GOLD: If you're asking
11 me to yield, it would be an honor.
12 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you very
13 much, Senator Gold.
14 This bill is not a compromise
15 bill to any other piece of legislation pending
16 in this state. This bill stands on its own. It
17 does not deal with testing as other pieces of
18 legislation do after the fact. This bill is the
19 first time in the AIDS epidemic that we can do
20 something to prevent children from being born
21 with HIV.
22 We're dealing here with the
23 virus. We're not dealing with the HIV antibody
2548
1 which some other legislation may discuss which
2 deals with a research test which only tells one
3 thing. It says that the infant that they've
4 tested, if they test all the infants -- and they
5 don't -- it says if that infant is tested that
6 there is an antibody which reflects that the
7 mother may have an HIV antibody, in no way does
8 it indicate that she has the virus and in no way
9 does it tell you anything about the infant.
10 My legislation deals with the
11 infant. It's what you might call a "baby
12 bill". It's done during the course of
13 pregnancy. It has no relation whatsoever to any
14 other piece of legislation, and I'm sure,
15 Senator Gold, that you know that this bill is
16 supported by just about every organization that
17 deals with this very vital subject. I can name
18 them for you if that's significant to you, but I
19 think you have them. It would probably take
20 another 15 minutes to name all of the
21 organizations that support this piece of
22 legislation.
23 Of greater significance is the
2549
1 fact that this legislation came out after the
2 results of the federal AZT study whereas the
3 other piece of legislation was in before it.
4 This bill deals specifically with the health of
5 the infants that could be born and possibly have
6 contracted the AIDS virus, and it provides with
7 the mother's consent that they can be tested for
8 the virus, not for an antibody which means
9 nothing other than the fact that maybe the
10 mother could contract AIDS.
11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
14 Oppenheimer.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is a
16 bill that I strongly support, and that is sup
17 ported by -- by many groups, most specifically
18 the AIDS Council.
19 The importance of this bill is
20 that the counseling and information on the
21 benefits of HIV testing and of early treatment
22 can reduce the risk of transmission to the new
23 born. There has been rather astounding results
2550
1 announced a couple of weeks ago from Washington
2 that showed that in those cases -- and this was
3 from the U. S. Center for Disease Control and
4 Prevention -- that in those cases where they
5 actually treated the affected HIV-positive
6 woman, that in those cases using AZT during the
7 pregnancy, if -- it is actually reducing the
8 incidence of HIV, the transmission to the new
9 borns at an absolutely astonishing rate of 67.5
10 percent.
11 This is very new. Until so
12 recently we didn't realize this was possible or
13 conceivable, but it is such exciting news, and
14 we feel that women will voluntarily enter this
15 program to have the testing done during their
16 pregnancies, and that we are not only saving the
17 lives of the children; we will be saving the
18 state money and this is a win/win, and as
19 Senator Tully, who has put this bill before us
20 and done an excellent job, has already said,
21 this is supported by just about every group
22 involved in this issue in the state and indeed
23 in the country.
2551
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2 last -- Senator?
3 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
5 Velella.
6 SENATOR VELELLA: I commend
7 Senator Tully for putting together what I think
8 is a good first step to addressing some of the
9 problems that we're facing on the issue of
10 testing for AIDS. It's a good first step, but
11 there's more that needs to be done, in my
12 opinion.
13 This bill will make available
14 counseling, will make available testing, and it
15 probably will save some lives of children who
16 would be exposed or who will develop the
17 full-blown AIDS disease.
18 Right now, in New York State,
19 under the current law, we test every baby that
20 is born anonymously for AIDS. That means that
21 their blood is drawn, they're tested and they're
22 tested for the virus, and that result is kept
23 confidential. It's called "blind testing". The
2552
1 mother, no one, finds out if that test comes
2 back positive for the virus and it's very
3 important that -- I make it a very important
4 issue that I have a bill that will reveal to the
5 mother the results of that test.
6 And why do I think it's
7 important? It's important because there are
8 three very basic things that will happen: One,
9 if a child has the virus, in many cases they
10 will reject it within the first several months
11 of life unless that mother breast-feeds the
12 child and reintroduces it through the breast
13 feeding process, and there's medical evidence to
14 show that that can happen.
15 Secondly, a child who has the
16 virus should be treated in a different way.
17 Their innoculation program is modified because
18 they have this virus. It doesn't make sense to
19 shoot a live polio vaccine into a child that may
20 be developing full-blown AIDS or may have that
21 virus. So a weakened form of the vaccine is put
22 into place.
23 And thirdly, within that first
2553
1 month of life, that child should be receiving
2 certain antibiotics so that they will not
3 develop the pneumonia associated with children
4 who have AIDS. Those are three very important
5 reasons why a parent should be made very much
6 aware of the fact that the test has come back
7 positive.
8 Communicable diseases are not
9 strange to this Legislature. Long before any of
10 us were here, they were dealing with those types
11 of diseases, whether it be tuberculosis,
12 syphilis, venereal diseases, the various
13 diseases that are communicable, and we've put
14 some very good health law policies on the books
15 and let's take a look at how we deal with other
16 communicable diseases as opposed to AIDS,
17 because I submit to you, we have a special
18 category for AIDS.
19 AIDS is the first politically
20 protected disease known to man. When we talk
21 about AIDS, everything else goes out the
22 window. All reason goes out the window. We
23 have to do the politically correct thing. I
2554
1 submit that we have done some of the things for
2 other diseases that we ought to be doing for
3 AIDS.
4 Let's take a look at section 2308
5 of the Public Health Law. Every physician
6 attending a pregnant woman in this state shall,
7 not may, shall in the case of every pregnant
8 woman so attended, take or cause to be taken a
9 sample of blood from such woman at the time of
10 first examination and submit such sample to an
11 approved laboratory for standard serological
12 tests for syphilis.
13 Section 2500, at the same time a
14 blood sample is taken for a test for syphilis,
15 every physician or authorized practitioner
16 attending a pregnant woman in this state shall,
17 in addition, submit or cause to be submitted
18 such sample to an approved laboratory for a
19 standard serological test for Hepatitis B.
20 Two major diseases, communicable
21 diseases, mandated by law. You must take blood
22 and test for these and let the people know they
23 have it, not for AIDS. Even for tuberculosis,
2555
1 the Commissioner shall have full power and
2 authority to make or cause to be made such
3 laboratory tests or X-ray examinations as, in
4 his judgment, may be desirable to detect
5 tuberculosis.
6 We even provide in the law that
7 if they're -- someone is suspected of these
8 diseases, they may be detained until the results
9 are known but not for AIDS. That's treated
10 specially.
11 Article 27 of the Public Health
12 Law devotes 39 pages to what we can't do about
13 AIDS and only two pages to diabetes, burn care,
14 birth defects, hypertension and a battery of
15 other diseases. But 39 pages on what we can't
16 do about AIDS.
17 Why? Once again, I submit
18 because it's the only politically protected
19 disease. I heard Senator Waldon the other day
20 talk in this chamber when we discussed the
21 fingerprinting bill, that some minority people
22 and some poor people would be intimidated by
23 fingerprinting, they might not seek out the help
2556
1 that they're entitled to because they were
2 intimidated by the process. Right now, if you
3 ask someone for their voluntary consent, you'd
4 have to have them fill out this form which is
5 the most intimidating thing I've seen: Pages of
6 explanations telling you that you're likely to
7 be discriminated against if this test comes back
8 positive, in your housing, your employment or
9 other means of discrimination may be employed
10 against you.
11 That's what you ask a woman to
12 sign when she takes the voluntary test for
13 AIDS. Every other disease is this simple form.
14 You just list the test. The doctor gives his
15 consent, advises that he's explained the test,
16 what the -- what the repercussions would be and
17 the person signs the form. Not for AIDS. We
18 have this form, because we have to politically
19 protect it.
20 This voluntary program is falling
21 flat on its face. Let me tell you what's
22 happening in 26 hospitals, targeted hospitals.
23 All of our voluntary programs in hospitals like
2557
1 Albany Medical Center, Bellevue, Beth Israel,
2 Bronx-Lebanon, Bronx Municipal, Brookdale, Coney
3 Island, Harlem, Kings County Memorial, Lutheran
4 Medical, Mount Sinai, Nassau County Medical
5 Center, New York hospital, North Central Bronx,
6 Presbyterian, Central Bronx, and on and on, 24
7 of the top targeted hospitals from July 1, 1993
8 to September 30, 1993, the voluntary testing
9 program with all the counseling that we've put
10 in with good intentions, all the advice by the
11 professionals yielded 36 positive HIV tests.
12 In those same hospitals at the
13 same time, the same period of time in those
14 hospitals, the blind testing, the testing of
15 every baby born in that hospital showed us that
16 there were 226 babies born in that hospital that
17 tested positive, only 36 of which positive tests
18 were the result of our positive -- of our
19 voluntary program for administering the test.
20 That means that 84.1 percent of
21 those babies went home with a positive reaction
22 and not knowing that they would have the
23 possibility of developing full-blown AIDS, going
2558
1 back home and possibly being breast-fed by their
2 mothers and reintroducing the virus, going on a
3 regular innoculation schedule when they should
4 be on a special one and going on a program that
5 would not protect them against the dangerous
6 pneumonia that they could develop.
7 Probably the only thing wrong
8 with my bill is, I think it makes too much
9 common sense. It says that, if we test a baby
10 as we're doing now, the mother ought to be
11 told. The adoptive parents ought to be told or
12 the foster parents. It maintains all the other
13 protections, all the other requirements for
14 confidentiality, but I think that we are being
15 negligent and being very narrow-minded when we
16 yield to certain political pressures that make
17 this a politically protected disease.
18 Senator Tully, I commend you on
19 your bill. It goes a long way for taking a
20 first step, but I'm hopeful that we'll see some
21 more steps taken in the near future, and I urge
22 your committee to look at it more carefully.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2559
1 Gold.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would
3 Senator Tully -- Senator Velella yield to a
4 question?
5 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Velella yields.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, these
9 questions are not by way of hostile debate.
10 They're by way of trying to just get some in
11 formation out on the floor. Do you know what
12 the percentages are of these newborn babies that
13 -- who, if not treated in any way, cure
14 themselves within the first 18 months? I'm told
15 that if there -
16 SENATOR VELELLA: I think it
17 would probably be more than the majority.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, it's a
19 substantial number, isn't that right?
20 SENATOR VELELLA: It's a
21 substantial number. I think it's within about
22 the first eight months, is it, about the first
23 eight months. Suzi, you can answer yourself if
2560
1 you like.
2 SENATOR GOLD: I don't know.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4 Oppenheimer, do you wish to be recognized?
5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. Within the first five to six
7 months, the vast majority, 65 to 75 percent.
8 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, a
9 substantial or vast amount will reject these
10 antibodies on their own natural progression.
11 They reject the birth mother's antibodies unless
12 they're reintroduced through breast-feeding.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator
14 Velella yield to another question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Velella yields.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I
18 understand the concept of Senator Tully's bill
19 and don't have any problem with it, but I'm
20 curious, if today we have these hospitals doing
21 pilot programs and they are unsuccessful, I
22 think your figure was 84 percent of the time -
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, at those
2561
1 those targeted hospitals.
2 SENATOR GOLD: -- in convincing
3 people to participate in what seems to me to be
4 a similar kind of consent to the Tully bill,
5 what makes us think then that the Tully bill,
6 even very well motivated, will work if people
7 are going to turn it down? What are we doing
8 wrong now in the educational and hospital, and
9 so on, studies?
10 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, there has
11 been some degree of substantial success in
12 Harlem Hospital, although it's not the success
13 that I would have liked to see. Senator Tully's
14 bill -- and he can explain it himself I'm sure
15 -- encourages a wider use of this, a more
16 aggressive use of this -- of this testing
17 process, and perhaps he can better explain his
18 own, but it will encourage -- and let me tell
19 you, either bill alone, I feel, is inadequate.
20 Certainly we want to encourage
21 the prenatal testing because that's where the
22 latest medical results are showing the most
23 impact can be had with AZT treatment, but there
2562
1 is still a gap after the baby is born that I am
2 trying to plug. This goes the longest way
3 possible to doing the prenatal treatment.
4 My bill addresses the post-birth
5 system that I think is definitely lacking and
6 needs the follow-up punch. Either bill on their
7 own isn't enough, in my opinion.
8 SENATOR GOLD: And will you
9 yield, Senator, to one last question?
10 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
11 SENATOR GOLD: There was a
12 comment made, and I think it was a part of the
13 television show that I'm referring to, which
14 distressed me, and I'm not sure whether it's
15 accurate, and I'm not sure whether you know
16 whether it's accurate or not.
17 The comment was made that AZT
18 itself is very dangerous, that you've got to
19 wear gloves to handle it. It's got all these
20 poison notations on it, and the implication was
21 made, I think it was more than an implication, I
22 think the statement was made that in treating
23 the unborn fetuses or the mother during
2563
1 pregnancy, that that itself was causing deaths
2 to the fetuses.
3 Now, I've never heard that.
4 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I've
5 never heard that; I've never heard it.
6 SENATOR GOLD: I've never heard
7 that, and I do not believe it to be the fact,
8 but I'm wondering whether you know anything
9 about that accusation.
10 SENATOR VELELLA: I've never
11 heard it, but let me tell you, once again when
12 discussing this issue, there is a lot of
13 political emotion here. There were some wild
14 charges around about Senator Tully's bill, wild
15 charges around about what's going to happen with
16 my bill, and this certainly, in my mind, unless
17 I see something different, and I've tried to
18 read up as much as I can is one of those wild
19 charges made. It has no substance.
20 What do those wild charges mean?
21 What is it going to do? It's sort of like
22 saying when a person has cancer and goes into
23 chemotherapy, you're introducing poisons into
2564
1 their system and they're going to have very
2 negative reactions, but you're saving their life
3 probably in the long run. That's the only
4 analogy I can see.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Jones.
7 SENATOR JONES: First of all, I
8 would like to say I don't disagree with many of
9 the points that Senator Velella just made. If
10 we lived in an ideal world, it would be treated
11 as a communicable disease as any other, and we
12 wouldn't be be having this discussion.
13 But nevertheless I want to
14 commend Senator Tully for this bill that he has
15 before us today, and I'm glad you mentioned
16 Harlem Hospital because I personally have had
17 the opportunity because of my own experience
18 with emergency medicine, to visit there and to
19 meet with Dr. Cooper and to look at the results
20 that they have had there with voluntary
21 agreement by the mothers to testing, and so it
22 is successful there, and I guess I would have to
23 say we need to look at what they're doing
2565
1 differently than the hospitals that we're
2 talking about that aren't successful.
3 But I think the point that that
4 has changed is the study that has said AZT will
5 help prenatally. Prevention, no matter what
6 we're talking about, whether it be disease or
7 education, is certainly the way we want to go.
8 We've learned that we can operate on babies in
9 the uterus. We can change blood supplies, so if
10 we can indeed use this and prevent these babies
11 from being born with the HIV, then I certainly
12 think we need to put as much effort as possible
13 there.
14 I don't think voting for this
15 bill really has any bearing on whether or not
16 you, at some other time, would support Senator
17 Velella's bill, but I think this is an excellent
18 bill, and I commend you, Senator Tully, and I
19 certainly am very supportive of it and your
20 efforts.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
2566
1 I think it's kind of a well established fact at
2 this point that only 12 percent of those people
3 who are treated for chemotherapy, of certain
4 types of cancer, are actually able to survive
5 and at the same time 15 percent of the people
6 who are treated actually contract other forms of
7 cancer. And so I point that out to try to state
8 that when we're looking at cures or proposed
9 treatments for different viruses, that we really
10 have to look at the fact that many -- much of
11 our information is coming from a source that is
12 certainly too close to many of the companies
13 that profit off of these types of ventures for
14 there to be a real and just survey.
15 So even this most recent study
16 that demonstrates that AZT has been helpful in
17 treating cases where the mother tested positive
18 for the HIV virus and that it was effective in
19 the treatment such that the child was born
20 testing negative for the HIV virus is something
21 that may be a step in the right direction, but I
22 think in many respects is being regarded as an
23 absolute fact when it was a study that only
2567
1 tested 900 women and could, in many ways, be
2 challenged by other medical evidence.
3 I'm not saying that the study is
4 wrong. I'm just saying that every time there is
5 any kind of a study that demonstrates the
6 slightest bit of improvement in conditions for
7 people who have become victims of the HIV virus,
8 there is national publication over these types
9 of issues when, in fact, there are people
10 walking around and the New York City Department
11 of Retrobiology, the Bureau of Immunology, has
12 tested people who now test HIV-negative who at
13 times tested HIV-positive; and so I'm saying I
14 would think that if that were the case that
15 there would be national headlines about who
16 these people are, but that the objection may be
17 to the type of treatment that they have
18 preferred, not AZT, DDI or DDC.
19 I challenge anyone in this
20 chamber to demonstrate to me any person who has
21 been treated with AZT for a period lasting over
22 three and a half years who has not suffered
23 immeasurable damage to their immune system.
2568
1 Well, why wouldn't that be the case? We're
2 treating an immuno-depressant virus with an
3 immuno-acute drug, and so in my opinion all AZT
4 does is it elevates the T-cell count of the
5 individual who is afflicted which, in many
6 cases, delays what is the impending fatality but
7 has never been shown and has never really ever
8 purported by anyone to have demonstrated any
9 kind of curing.
10 So when we start talking about
11 what we can do for people who have contracted
12 the HIV virus, Senator Velella is correct that
13 in cases where the baby sero-converts from
14 HIV-positive to HIV-negative within 18 months,
15 which I think some of the statistics run as high
16 as 65 percent of those babies doing that, the
17 breast-feeding of the child would certainly
18 contribute to a fatal medical situation because,
19 as Senator Velella very eloquently pointed out,
20 the mother is reinfecting her own child.
21 So that would be a very strong
22 argument for this information becoming
23 available. But when we start talking about
2569
1 needing to test so that we can start to provide
2 medical treatment, I find that to be in some
3 respects hypocritical if we are not going to
4 take a hard look at what those treatment -
5 proposed treatments may be and how in many
6 respects, we have taken AZT which was actually a
7 drug that was found not to be a good cure for
8 cancer, that was put into effect in the shortest
9 period of time that the American Medical
10 Association ever validated any such substance
11 and has now been operating as the main drug to
12 treat people with the HIV virus for over eight
13 and a half years that we have not really looked
14 into any other kind of treatment and anyone who
15 suggests any other kind of treatment is treated
16 like a pariah, and I think throughout history we
17 have found that there are men and women who took
18 first steps down new roads armed with nothing
19 but their own vision, and we're having that
20 problem today.
21 There have been too many periods
22 in history that every new invention was de
23 nounced and every new opinion was in many ways
2570
1 thwarted because we as a society were not even
2 interested in treating diseases but rather
3 created political implications to what the
4 diseases were, and we had that problem earlier
5 this century with tuberculosis.
6 So while I will vote for this
7 bill and would even consider Senator Velella's
8 bill, I think that it is for all of the zeal and
9 the energy that I'm hearing here today for
10 talking about how to test people, how can we
11 really test people when the reason that we're
12 getting such a low response to voluntary
13 testing, Senator Velella, I would suggest is
14 because people believe, and it is probably true
15 at this point that we do not know a cure for the
16 HIV virus, so in some respects other than the
17 fact that you would be reinfecting other people,
18 there is almost no positive reason to actually
19 know whether you have it or whether you do not
20 have it.
21 But what we can possibly do
22 through this discussion is to start talking
23 about giving opportunities to many of the health
2571
1 care investigators which the federal government
2 sponsors and has 945 of them right now, to
3 really start looking into whether or not we can
4 work at trying to eradicate this problem, what
5 has become a tragic problem in this society.
6 But I would suggest that I have
7 been in contact with researchers on this subject
8 who have said that they would like to try to
9 treat people who are in AIDS hospices, who are
10 in obviously a situation where even our own
11 medical communities feel that they have been
12 rendered in such a state that they cannot be
13 helped by any cure that we know of, and perhaps
14 try some other remedies.
15 I am not suggesting that there is
16 anybody in this country that knows a cure. I am
17 only proposing that our scope of investigation
18 has not been wide enough, and you would think
19 that it would be just the reverse when we
20 realize that we now have 300,000 cases
21 documented in this state, that we have 52,000
22 cases documented in New York and half of them
23 were documented after 1990, meaning all the
2572
1 cases up to 1990 were doubled in the last four
2 years.
3 I think it is a significant issue
4 that compels us to act. I'm happy that both
5 Senators have presented what would be their
6 initial approaches to how to treat it, but if we
7 are going to stand on principle in these
8 discussions, let's start discussing the
9 principle of how we have, in many ways, been
10 bamboozled into thinking that there are only a
11 couple of treatments for this virus and
12 impending disease when there are other
13 treatments that cannot get a public hearing.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 Tully.
16 SENATOR VELELLA: Excuse me.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 Velella.
19 SENATOR VELELLA: Would Senator
20 Paterson yield to a question?
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Sure.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
23 Paterson, would you yield?
2573
1 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator
2 Paterson, would you agree with me and I agree
3 with a lot that you said, that regardless of the
4 modality of treatment or the choices available,
5 the first step is in ascertaining out whether a
6 person does or does not have AIDS and letting
7 them know whether they have the disease and that
8 they should then be trying to seek out the best
9 available attention.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Without
11 question, Senator.
12 SENATOR VELELLA: And that either
13 one of these bills both try to do that. That's
14 what I wanted to point out. Thank you.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: I am in
16 complete agreement with that, Senator.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 Tully.
19 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
20 President.
21 I had not intended to prolong the
22 debate because I felt that this subject was so
23 significant and the support was so unanimous
2574
1 that we wouldn't have to go into it once I made
2 the initial statement that I made at the opening
3 of my remarks, that this was not a compromise
4 bill.
5 It is definitely not a compromise
6 bill. It is one that comes from the Health
7 Committee, from the chairman of the Health
8 Committee, and after a great deal of research,
9 and I now will indicate those who support the
10 bill because those who support the bill are far
11 more knowledgeable than I am or any of those who
12 spoke in this chamber today.
13 Supported by the Hospital
14 Association of the state of New York; the
15 American College of Obstetricians and
16 Gynecologists; the New York State Nurses'
17 Association, the American College of Nurse
18 Midwives; the New York City Health and Hospitals
19 Corporation; the Nassau-Suffolk Hospital
20 Council, the Bellevue Hospital Community Board,
21 the League of Women Voters; Family Planning
22 Advocates; the Community Family Planning
23 Council; Statewide Youth Advocacy; the Center
2575
1 for Reproductive Law and Policy; the Federation
2 of Protestant Welfare Agencies; Positively
3 Pediatrics, a local organization for parents of
4 children with AIDS; the National Association of
5 Social Workers, the New York State AIDS Advisory
6 Council; the AIDS Council of Northeastern New
7 York; the Nassau County HIV Commission, the New
8 York AIDS Coalition; the Long Island Association
9 for AIDS Care; the Rochester Area Task Force on
10 AIDS; the Central New York HIV Care Network; the
11 Black Leadership Commission on AIDS; Gay Men's
12 Health Crisis, and the following groups of
13 national physicians in favor of mandatory
14 counseling and against mandatory testing: The
15 American Academy of Pediatrics; the American
16 Medical Association, the American Public Health
17 Association, and the National Academy of
18 Sciences Institute of Medicine.
19 These people, as I said, have had
20 dealings with this monstrous problem. They're
21 far more knowledgeable. I think they know
22 whether a bill is, as some people have said,
23 politically correct, and they know that this
2576
1 bill is medically correct. It's the thing to
2 do. I'm not speaking of any other legislation.
3 I speak of mine only, but there is misin
4 formation that's been given today.
5 Senator Velella indicated that
6 the babies are tested for the virus under the
7 research tests today. They are not tested for
8 the virus. They're tested for antibodies. He
9 also said that it was possible for the child to
10 reject the virus. That's absolutely medically
11 impossible. If you have the virus, you die,
12 period, case closed. That's basic understanding
13 of the issue.
14 There's never been a case of an
15 AIDS child contracting polio. Harlem Hospital
16 has one hundred percent, not 99, one hundred
17 percent, it's identification of infected
18 infants. 75 to 80 percent of those who test
19 positive in this particular situation with the
20 current testing are fine.
21 AZT is definitely, Senator Gold,
22 extremely toxic, but it's the only game in
23 town. It's the only thing that helps those who
2577
1 are infected today. More importantly, and to be
2 understood with respect to this legislation
3 which does what it should do early, it precludes
4 HIV, the antibodies. It precludes the situation
5 of the virus and transmission by breast
6 feeding.
7 Under some thinking, people would
8 say, well, we'll let you know whether or not it
9 can be transmitted by breast-feeding, but 30
10 days later, that's too late. It's already too
11 late.
12 This is a baby saving bill. It's
13 not merely an identification situation after
14 birth. It's very significant that the fact is
15 that there are tests for the virus. They
16 haven't been mentioned today. It's the PCR
17 test, and it's usually given one month after
18 birth defects if the virus is in the blood, not
19 an antibody, but the virus.
20 This bill is timely. It's
21 important. It has no reference to any other
22 legislation. It's unanimously supported. There
23 is no known opposition to the bill, and I
2578
1 believe it should be passed.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
3 Stavisky.
4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
5 I'd like to ask Senator Velella if he would
6 yield for a question and then -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
8 Velella yields.
9 SENATOR STAVISKY: And then
10 Senator Tully.
11 Senator Velella, is it your
12 opinion that, if this legislation passes, that
13 it will preclude the likelihood that subsequent
14 legislation will be sought in this session or in
15 -- or shortly thereafter in the form of
16 universal testing for babies to determine
17 whether they are infected with the AIDS virus?
18 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, it's
19 my understanding and, Senator Tully, in his
20 giving the names, he could have added my name
21 with those supporting the legislation. I will
22 support this legislation and on its merits it is
23 a good first step, as I said in my opening
2579
1 remarks. I don't believe it precludes other
2 legislation. No bill on this floor precludes
3 legislation following up or changing or
4 enhancing a bill. That's why we have chapter
5 amendments some time.
6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Just to
7 continue, Senator Velella. As you know, Senator
8 Velella, your legislation and Assemblywoman
9 Mayersohn's companion bill have had widespread
10 support from the advocates who believe that the
11 child cannot give informed consent, that the
12 baby needs to be protected and universal testing
13 of the baby is the only way that you can deal
14 with what is a human tragedy of enormous
15 proportions.
16 Do you feel that, in any sense,
17 that the momentum for your legislation will be
18 undercut by the adoption of this bill?
19 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator, I
20 don't and as a matter of fact, I think this
21 legislation has, in some degree, given me an
22 opportunity to provide some impetus for our
23 legislation and will increase the awareness of
2580
1 the house and the members of the Senate and the
2 Assembly hopefully, that there are some follow
3 up provisions that some members think will
4 strengthen this provision.
5 I do want to, while I'm on my
6 feet, apologize for misspeaking. I am not as
7 familiar with the terminology as perhaps some of
8 my colleagues. I used the word "virus" rather
9 than "antibody", so I meant to say "antibody".
10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. I
11 have no further question of Senator Tully. I
12 think Senator Velella has expressed the position
13 sufficiently.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
15 Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Will Senator
17 Tully yield for a question?
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I will,
19 Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
21 yields.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
23 think that there are often people who have a
2581
1 bunch of outrageous ideas who probably profiteer
2 on diseases such as this, and it's outstanding
3 that some of the consumer advocates in this
4 state, certainly the new public advocate of New
5 York, Mark Green when he was consumer protection
6 commissioner, for exposing these people for the
7 charlatans that they are, but at the same time,
8 I was a little disappointed to hear you say that
9 AZT is the only game in town when, in fact, I
10 don't know of a person that ever had -- was
11 diagnosed to have full-blown AIDS or even was
12 diagnosed as having the HIV virus that ever
13 survived after being treated with AZT which is
14 not only a highly toxic drug but actually
15 exacerbates the same virus that it's treating,
16 and so while I think I understood what you were
17 trying to say, I was just going to ask you if
18 you would rephrase it because it certainly
19 promotes a feeling that this is a drug that does
20 anything other than perhaps delay an inevitable
21 circumstance, but in delaying the inevitable
22 circumstance, it has been perpetuated on society
23 to such a degree that it is almost impossible to
2582
1 discuss any other alternqtive to an extent that,
2 if anyone even suggests one as opposed to the,
3 quote, "only game in town," it then becomes
4 incumbent on these individuals to perhaps have
5 their medical license challenged or, in fact, be
6 exposed themselves as if they are charlatans
7 when, in fact, they are researchers who are
8 trying very hard, as we all are, to find
9 something that will hopefully reverse this
10 deadly illness.
11 And so I just submit to you that
12 the discussion of AZT is one that has been
13 promoted to a higher level at a point when
14 consumers have been charged outrageous amounts
15 to receive AZT, when a number of pharmaceutical
16 companies have profiteered very immeasurably for
17 a drug that has not yet cured one person and
18 which is -- which is pretty much understood to
19 be something that only influences the T-cell
20 count in the body.
21 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you,
22 Senator.
23 Mr. President.
2583
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Tully.
3 SENATOR TULLY: I stand by the
4 statement that it's the only game in town
5 because I was making reference to the fact that
6 this AZT dramatically reduces transmission of
7 HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, from infected
8 mothers to their newborns.
9 Now, this is not my statement.
10 This is the statement of Dr. Harold W. Jaffe, an
11 epidemiologist and the top scientist on HIV at
12 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
13 in Atlanta. He clearly stated that AZT and the
14 testing of the federal test is the first
15 indication that mother-to-child transmission of
16 HIV can be decreased, if not prevented, and it
17 will provide a real impetus for identifying more
18 HIV-infected women during pregnancies so that
19 they could consider the benefit of AZT treatment
20 to themselves and their children, and that is
21 the impetus of this legislation. Do it early
22 on. Don't do it after it's too late. Do it for
23 medically necessary purposes, period.
2584
1 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the first day of the
6 first month following the 90th day after it
7 shall have become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
9 roll. Senator Gold to explain his vote.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 I unquestionably am going to
16 support the bill, Senator Tully, and I also want
17 to take the opportunity to congratulate Senator
18 Velella and Assemblywoman Mayersohn because this
19 is an issue that really is overwhelming. We
20 should be doing things about it, and thank God
21 we have a Nettie Mayersohn and you, Senator
22 Tully and Senator Velella, to work on it.
23 But I want to say one last
2585
1 thing. Senator Paterson, I heard every word you
2 said, and I'm glad you're saying it. I really
3 am. I think there are a lot of things being
4 said on both sides which are questionable. I'm
5 not a doctor, and I don't see any doctors around
6 in the room, but there's no doubt in my mind,
7 Senator Paterson, that there are many times in
8 this country where people are killed because
9 that is good for somebody's economics and maybe
10 we'll get to a point in history where that won't
11 happen.
12 I unquestionably believe that
13 there are things available called alternative
14 medicine and other ideas in the medical
15 profession which are not under any label, that
16 could save lives and which aren't allowed to be
17 processed properly, because it doesn't fit into
18 certain political and financial schemes.
19 So Senator Padavan -- Paterson,
20 I'm glad you said what you said. I vote for the
21 bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
23 Stavisky to explain his vote.
2586
1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
2 I rise to explain my vote on the following
3 basis: Informed consent is an excellent concept,
4 but no one can give informed consent for an
5 infant. That infant, once born, has the right
6 to medical care and treatment that any other
7 living human being possesses, and it seems to me
8 that, because of ideology, sometimes selfish
9 ideology, we are failing to consider the
10 ramifications of this tragic disease and the
11 inability of an infant to give informed
12 consent.
13 What if the mother, after all the
14 counseling, still fails to give that informed
15 consent in behalf of the child in behalf of
16 testing? What then? This legislation goes part
17 of the way, but I could not in good conscience
18 vote for this bill with the feeling that it is
19 the last word by this Legislature on this issue,
20 and I urge Senator Tully and his colleagues on
21 the Health Committee to consider the
22 ramifications of universal and routine testing
23 after birth in addition to the legislation that
2587
1 we are passing today. The two together will
2 make a package that perhaps will provide some
3 partial remedy to this great tragedy.
4 I vote in the affirmative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Stavisky in the affirmative.
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
9 I just would like to advise my colleagues that I
10 would say the same thing that Senator Tully
11 said, had I been provided that information, and
12 I think that that is correct, that is what the
13 study said, and Senator Tully is known as an
14 outstanding health care advocate and there have
15 to be some issues that we discuss in this
16 chamber where we rely on the facts that are
17 produced from studies and maybe this is a
18 cynical remark, Senator Tully, but it's
19 interesting to me that nine years after they
20 started using AZT, they finally found a study
21 that said that it does something for -- that
22 somebody can find something positive about it
23 because the drug has been under such criticism,
2588
1 and finally that criticism is coming to
2 fruition.
3 I'm not going to accuse anyone of
4 falsifying a study, but what I'm going to say
5 that reality has a way of following perception.
6 People want to believe it so they believe it, so
7 rather than referring you to any documents that
8 I can produce right now to discredit the study,
9 I would just refer you to Hans Christian
10 Anderson who wrote The Emperor's New Clothes,
11 and what I'm saying is very much like what
12 Senator Gold is saying, that the ideas of
13 alternative therapy have been so preempted and
14 so diminished and so discredited that we don't
15 even discuss them.
16 The fact is that a couple years,
17 a few years ago, the Kenyan government said that
18 they had a cure or a proposal for the HIV virus
19 known as Chemeron, and a number of African
20 American leaders went to Kenya to look into this
21 treatment. The fact is that the treatment
22 really doesn't help anybody that has the HIV
23 virus any more than AZT does, but it became very
2589
1 popular in the black community to talk about
2 this because it would have been so wonderful had
3 the Kenya government and Kenya researchers come
4 up with a cure that would have helped this
5 virus. But the mistake that many leaders in the
6 African-American community made was because it
7 seemed so wonderful that there had been this
8 proposal they latched onto the cure because it
9 was fashionable and it would have sounded very
10 great if that had been the cure. But meanwhile
11 the medical evidence, time after time, was
12 demonstrating that Chemeron was not a cure for
13 the HIV virus, and it should never be an issue
14 of race. It should never be an issue of class,
15 and those who supported it now wish they hadn't
16 because they got behind something that had not
17 been medically tested.
18 All I'm saying to my colleagues
19 today is that we have been for so long enduring
20 this drug that still has not cured one person
21 and they finally found one study that an
22 epidemiologist who is of great credential stands
23 behind and all of a sudden now, we may have 15
2590
1 studies that show that that's not the case, but
2 no one will listen to it because we've already
3 institutionalized it, and what I'm saying is
4 that that's what happened to AZT and DDI in the
5 first place. They became institutionalized
6 because somebody came up with a study that the
7 American Medical Association approved so quickly
8 that it would make your head spin.
9 So all I'm asking everyone here
10 is to keep your minds open to possible cures and
11 I vote in support of this bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Paterson in the affirmative. Results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 would you call Senator Volker, please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
21 Volker.
22 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
23 I'd like to call a meeting of -- immediate
2591
1 meeting of the Codes Committee in Room 332 for
2 the purpose of reporting one bill which is a
3 group of extenders that have run out or are
4 about to run out on the 15th of April.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
6 Immediate meeting of the Codes Committee, Room
7 332.
8 Senator Present.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
10 can we return to reports of standing
11 committees.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
16 following bills directly for third reading:
17 Senate Bill Number 7671, by
18 Senator Stafford, an act to amend the State
19 Finance Law and the Public Authorities Law, in
20 relation to making technical corrections
21 relating to certain professional contracts.
22 Also Senate Bill Number -- Senate
23 Bill Number 7682, by the Committee on Rules, an
2592
1 act making an appropriation for the payment of
2 debt service obligations to the local
3 government.
4 Senate Bill Number 7681, by the
5 Committee on Rules, an act to provide for
6 payments to municipalities.
7 Senate Bill Number 7684, by the
8 Committee on Rules, an act making an
9 appropriation for the support of government.
10 Also Senate Bill Number 7683, by
11 the Committee on Rules, an act making an
12 appropriation for the support of government.
13 All bills reported directly for
14 third reading.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
16 objection, third reading.
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 will you call up Calendar 578.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
21 Secretary will read Calendar 578.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 578, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
2593
1 Bill Number 7681, an act to provide for payments
2 to municipalities.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
4 I understand there's two messages at the desk
5 applying to this bill, and I move we accept
6 them.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All
8 those in favor of accepting the message, signify
9 by saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 Opposed nay.
12 (There was no response. )
13 The message is accepted. Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays
21 one, Senator Maltese recorded in the negative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
23 is passed.
2594
1 Senator Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Will you call
3 up Calendar 579.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
5 Secretary will read Calendar 579.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 579, by the Senate Committee on rules, Senate
8 Bill Number 7682, an act making an appropriation
9 for the payment of debt service applications.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
11 Present.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
13 I understand there's a message of necessity and
14 a message of -- making the appropriation at the
15 desk. I move that we accept them.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All
17 those in favor of accepting the message?
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed nay.
20 (There was no response. )
21 The message is accepted.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
2595
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
12 can we call up Calendar 580, please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
14 Secretary will read Calendar 580.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 580, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
17 Bill Number 7683, an act making appropriation
18 for the support of government.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Present.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
22 I understand there's a message of necessity and
23 a message making the appropriation at the desk.
2596
1 I move we accept it.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All
3 those in favor of accepting the message?
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Those opposed nay.
6 (There was no response. )
7 The message is accepted. Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 can we call up Calendar 581, please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
21 Secretary will read Calendar 581.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 581, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
2597
1 Bill Number 7684, an act making appropriation
2 for the support of government.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4 Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
6 I move that we accept the message of necessity
7 and the message making the appropriation which
8 is at the desk.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All
10 those in favor of accepting the message signify
11 by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed nay.
14 (There was no response. )
15 The message is accepted. Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
2598
1 is passed.
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
4 I move that we stand at ease awaiting a report
5 of the Codes Committee.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
7 will stand at ease.
8 (The Senate stood at ease from
9 3:46 p.m. to 4:20 p.m.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
11 will come to order. Senator Present.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
13 can we return to reports of standing
14 committees.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
16 Secretary will read reports of standing
17 committees.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker,
19 from the Committee on Codes, reports the
20 following bill directly for third reading:
21 Senate Bill Number 7693, by the Committee on
22 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 261 of the Laws
23 of 1987.
2599
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without
2 objection, third reading.
3 Senator Present.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
5 I understand there's a message of necessity at
6 the desk. I move we accept the message.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All
8 those in favor of accepting the message?
9 (Response of "Aye.")
10 Opposed nay.
11 (There was no response. )
12 The message is accepted. Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
21 is -
22 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Ayes
23 50, nays one, Senator Pataki recorded in the
2600
1 negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
3 is passed.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there any
6 housekeeping or -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Any
8 housekeeping, motions, resolutions?
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Desk is clear?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: We're
11 all clear, Senator Present.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
13 there being no further business, I move that we
14 adjourn until Monday, April 18th, at 3:00 p.m.,
15 intervening days to be legislative days. I
16 would also like to advise the members that they
17 are subject to a call of the Majority Leader for
18 session upon 24 hours notice.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The
20 Senate will stand adjourned until Monday, 3:00
21 p.m., being subject to call of the Majority
22 Leader on 24 hours notice.
23 (Whereupon at 4:24 p.m., the
2601
1 Senate adjourned. )
2
3
4
5
6
7
8