Regular Session - April 19, 1994

                                                                 
2631

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        10                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        11                         April 19, 1994

        12                           10:00 a.m.

        13

        14

        15                        REGULAR SESSION

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        17

        18

        19       SENATOR WILLIAM J. LARKIN, JR., Acting President

        20       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        22

        23











                                                             
2632

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Senate

         3       will come to order.

         4                      Please join me in the Pledge of

         5       Allegiance.

         6                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                      Our prayers today will be offered

         9       by the Reverend Khatchig Megerdichian, the Holy

        10       Cross Armenian Apostolic Church in Troy, New

        11       York.

        12                      Father.

        13                      REVEREND FATHER KHATCHIG

        14       MEGERDICHIAN:  Dear God, we thank You for the

        15       gift of life and for granting us the honor and

        16       the privilege of living in this great land of

        17       freedom and opportunity, where each and every

        18       one of us has the freedom to worship in the

        19       faith of their ancestors.

        20                      We thankfully dedicate our lives

        21       to Your glory, to the service of our fellowman,

        22       to freedom, justice, righteousness, and the

        23       democratic way of life.











                                                             
2633

         1                      We humbly pray that You preserve

         2       and protect this great nation, the United States

         3       of America and all of its federal, state and

         4       municipal agencies.

         5                      We humbly pray that Your divine

         6       wisdom illuminate the hearts and souls and minds

         7       of our President, Cabinet, and Congress and

         8       especially our Governor, state Senate and

         9       Assembly.

        10                      As we gather here today, we

        11       remember, honor and pay tribute to the blessed

        12       memory of over 1-1/2 million innocent Armenian

        13       men, women, and children who become victims of

        14       the first genocide of the 20th century at the

        15       hands of the Ottoman Turks during 1915 and

        16       1923.

        17                      We pray that these grievous

        18       wrongs of brutal massacre, mass deportation and

        19       starvation, committed against the Armenian

        20       people be made known to the world and set right

        21       so that the sacred blood of our martyrs will not

        22       have been shed in vein.

        23                      Dear God, may the trials and











                                                             
2634

         1       tribulations which the Armenian people

         2       experienced throughout their long and

         3       illustrious history not be experienced by any

         4       nation of this world again.

         5                      And now, dear God, we pray, grant

         6       us, faith, hope and love.  Make us instruments

         7       of Your peace.  Teach us to glorify Thy holy

         8       name, humbly serve our fellowman, and

         9       unceasingly strive for freedom and justice all

        10       the days of our lives.

        11                      Amen.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Thank

        13       you very much, Father.  On behalf of all of our

        14       colleagues in the Senate, we thank you very much

        15       for being with us today and for your kind words,

        16       guidance and wisdom.

        17                      REVEREND FATHER KHATCHIG

        18       MERGERDICHIAN:  My pleasure.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Reading

        20       of the Journal.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        22       Monday, April 18.  The Senate met pursuant to

        23       adjournment.  Senator Spano in the chair upon











                                                             
2635

         1       designation of the Temporary President.  The

         2       Journal of Sunday, April 17, was read and

         3       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Hearing

         5       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

         6       read.

         7                      Presentation of petitions.

         8                      Messages from the Assembly; the

         9       Governor.

        10                      Reports of standing committees.

        11                      Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears

        13       from the Committee on Consumer Protection

        14       reports the following bills directly for third

        15       reading:

        16                      Senate Bill Number 3836A, by

        17       Senator Sears, an act to amend the General

        18       Business Law.

        19                      4871, by Senator Libous, an act

        20       to amend the General Business Law.

        21                      6543B, by Senator Sears, an act

        22       to amend the General Business Law.

        23                      6687, by Senator Velella, an act











                                                             
2636

         1       to amend the General Business Law.

         2                      6894, by Senator Velella, an act

         3       to amend the General Business Law.

         4                      Senator Levy from the Committee

         5       on Transportation reports the following bills

         6       directly for third reading:

         7                      Senate Bill Number 71A, by

         8       Senator Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and

         9       Traffic Law and the Education Law.

        10                      2273, by Senator Cook, an act to

        11       amend the Highway Law.

        12                      2341, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

        13       act to amend the Highway Law.

        14                      7475, by Senator Levy,

        15       authorizing the Commissioner of Transportation

        16       to develop and implement a uniform statewide

        17       system for recording hazardous materials.

        18                      7476, by Senator Levy,

        19       authorizing the Commissioner of Transportation

        20       to make a comprehensive review of the

        21       feasibility, permanent state motor carrier.

        22                      Senator Padavan from the

        23       Committee on Cities reports the following bills











                                                             
2637

         1       directly for third reading:

         2                      2465A, by Senator Babbush, City

         3       of New York to reconvey its interests in certain

         4       real property.

         5                      3202, by Senator Cook and others,

         6       an act to amend the General City Law, Town Law

         7       and Village Law.

         8                      6571, by Senator Velella,

         9       authorize the City of New York to reconvey its

        10       interest in certain real property.

        11                      7215, by Senator Cook and others,

        12       an act to amend the General City Law.

        13                      Senator Cook from the Committee

        14       on Education reports of the following bills for

        15       third reading:

        16                      7379, by Senator Levy, payment of

        17       transportation aid to the Roosevelt Union Free

        18       School.

        19                      7575, by Senator Cook, an act to

        20       amend the Education Law.

        21                      7649, by Senator DeFrancisco, to

        22       prevent loss of state aid for education to the

        23       North Syracuse Central School District.











                                                             
2638

         1                      Senator DiCarlo from the

         2       Committee on Veterans reports the following

         3       bills to third reading:

         4                      Senate Bill Number 1296, by

         5       Senator Skelos, an act to amend Vehicle and

         6       Traffic Law.

         7                      3501A, by Senator Sears and

         8       others, Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         9                      4112A, by Senator Maltese and

        10       others, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        11       Law.

        12                      6349, by Senator Levy, an act to

        13       amend the Public Service Law.

        14                      7374, by Senator Johnson, an act

        15       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        16                      7381, by Senator DiCarlo and

        17       others, an act to amend the Executive Law.

        18                      Senator Saland from the Committee

        19       on Children and Families reports the following

        20       bills to third reading:

        21                      2245, by Senator Saland,

        22       Executive Law and the Family Court Act.

        23                      3378, by Senator Saland, Domestic











                                                             
2639

         1       Relations Law.

         2                      3759, by Senator Saland, Domestic

         3       Relations Law.

         4                      6511, by Senator DiCarlo and

         5       others, an act to amend the Executive Law.

         6                      6796, by Senators Daly and

         7       others, Social Services Law.

         8                      7225, by Senator Rath and others,

         9       an act to amend the Family Court Act.

        10                      7466, by Senator Skelos, Domestic

        11       Relations Law.

        12                      Senator Volker from the Committee

        13       on Codes reports the following bills directly

        14       for third reading:

        15                      Senate Bill Number 207, by

        16       Senator Holland and others, an act to amend the

        17       Penal Law.

        18                      1507, by Senator Volker, Civil

        19       Practice Law and Rules.

        20                      1591, by Senators Present and

        21       Kuhl, an act to amend the Penal Law.

        22                      2796B, by Senator Volker, Civil

        23       Practice Law and Rules.











                                                             
2640

         1                      3154A, by Senators Padavan and

         2       others, Criminal Procedure Law.

         3                      3459, by Senator Skelos, Criminal

         4       Procedure Law.

         5                      3639, by Senator Volker and

         6       others, an act to amend the Penal Law.

         7                      3794A, by Senator Maltese and

         8       others, an act to amend the Penal Law.

         9                      3825B, by Senator Volker and

        10       others, Criminal Procedure Law.

        11                      4449, by Senator Libous and

        12       others, an act to amend the Penal Law.

        13                      4742, by Senator DeFrancisco,

        14       Criminal Procedure Law.

        15                      4821A, by Senator Stafford, an

        16       act to amend the Penal Law.

        17                      4843, by Senator Levy, an act to

        18       amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

        19                      6123, by Senator Johnson and

        20       others, Criminal Procedure Law.

        21                      6579A, by Senator DeFrancisco and

        22       others, an act to amend the Penal Law and the

        23       General Municipal Law.











                                                             
2641

         1                      6769, by Senator DeFrancisco and

         2       others, Criminal Procedure Law.

         3                      7102, by Senator Kruger, an act

         4       to amend the Penal Law.

         5                      7152, by Senator Volker and

         6       others, Criminal Procedure Law.

         7                      7297, by Senator LaValle,

         8       Criminal Procedure Law.

         9                      7422, by Senator Volker and

        10       others, an act to amend the Penal Law.

        11                      7579, by Senator Lack and others,

        12       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        13                      All bills reported directly for

        14       third reading.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Without

        16       objection, third reading, so ordered.

        17                      Motions and resolutions.

        18                      Senator Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On page number

        20       19 of the starred calendar, I offer the

        21       following amendments to Calendar Number 317,

        22       Senate Print Number 1985B, and ask that said

        23       bill retain its place on the Third Reading











                                                             
2642

         1       Calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  So

         3       ordered.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  And on behalf of

         5       Senator Libous, I move that his bill, Senate

         6       Print Number 3757, been discharged from its

         7       committee and be recommitted with instructions

         8       to strike the enacting clause.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Without

        10       objection, so ordered.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:

        13       Secretary will read substitutions.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 15 of

        15       today's calendar, Senator Trunzo moves to

        16       discharge the Committee on Civil Service and

        17       Pensions from Assembly Bill Number 10629 and

        18       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        19       588.

        20                      Also on page 16, Senator Saland

        21       moves to discharge the Committee on Insurance

        22       from Assembly Bill Number 9919A and substitute

        23       it for the identical Third Reading 599.











                                                             
2643

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:

         2       Substitutions ordered.

         3                      Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5       I move we adopt the Resolution Calendar, copies

         6       of which are on our desk, with the exception of

         7       Resolution 3212.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Without

         9       objection.  On the Resolution Calendar.

        10                      All those in favor, aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Nays.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The Resolution Calendar is now

        15       adopted.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        17       Would you recognize Senator Maltese.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Senator

        19       Maltese.

        20                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President.

        21       I ask that Resolution Number 3212 be read in its

        22       entirety.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:











                                                             
2644

         1       Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         3       Maltese and other members of the Senate,

         4       Legislative Resolution Number 3212, urging

         5       Governor Cuomo to proclaim April 24, 1994, as

         6       "Armenian Martyrs' Day" in the State of New

         7       York.

         8                      Whereas, it is the sense of this

         9       Legislative Body to urge Governor Cuomo to

        10       proclaim April 24, 1994, as "Armenian Martyrs'

        11       Day" in the State of New York.

        12                      Towards the end of the 19th

        13       century, the government of the Ottoman Empire

        14       began to systematically persecute their citizens

        15       of Armenian heritage.

        16                      From 1894 to 1896 Sultan

        17       Abdu-Hamid II ordered the massacre of 300,000

        18       Armenians living within the boundaries of the

        19       empire.

        20                      In 1909, 30,000 more Armenian

        21       men, women, and children were senselessly

        22       slaughtered by Ottoman armies in the mountain

        23       village of Cilicia.











                                                             
2645

         1                      Nonetheless, by the onset of

         2       World War I, there still remained 2,500,000

         3       Armenians who made their homes within the

         4       Ottoman Empire; of these, over 250,000 were

         5       faithful soldiers who loyally fought within the

         6       ranks of its armies in an effort to defend their

         7       homeland.

         8                      On April 24, 1915, hundreds of

         9       Armenian religious, political, and intellectual

        10       leaders were rounded up, exiled and eventually

        11       murdered in secret death camps hidden in the

        12       depths of the mountainsides.

        13                      Over the course of the next six

        14       months, the Armenian soldiers on active duty in

        15       the army were disarmed and placed in forced

        16       labor battalions, whereupon many either starved

        17       or were summarily executed behind the fences of

        18       these camps.

        19                      Deprived of their leaders and the

        20       young men who could defend these helpless

        21       communities, the remaining Armenians became an

        22       easy target for government raids and found

        23       themselves at the mercy of cruel and often











                                                             
2646

         1       barbaric persecutors.

         2                      A total 1,500,000 Armenian men,

         3       women and children were massacred, 500,000 more

         4       were exiled, and about 500,000 were able to

         5       escape the reign of terror and establish

         6       themselves in new and wholly foreign lands; as a

         7       result, today there are only 100,000 people of

         8       Armenian heritage left residing within the

         9       borders of modern Turkey.

        10                      The devastation which resulted

        11       from this "ethnic cleansing" practiced by the

        12       rulers of the Ottoman Empire occurred in a

        13       similar ratio to that caused by the Jewish

        14       Holocaust in Germany and Eastern Europe, yet

        15       most of the world's peoples do not realize the

        16       gravity of the genocide perpetrated during this

        17       period.

        18                      The Armenian people have been

        19       denied the right to self-determination of

        20       ancestoral lands; they have received no form of

        21       reparation for their tragic losses.

        22                      Today, the Armenian people are

        23       coming together to properly commemorate the











                                                             
2647

         1       sacrifice of life their families endured; now

         2       therefore, be it

         3                      Resolved, that this Legislative

         4       Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize

         5       the genocide of the Armenian people by declaring

         6       April 24, 1994, to be "Armenian Martyrs' Day";

         7       and be it further.

         8                      Resolved, that copies of this

         9       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        10       to the Armenian National Committee; to the

        11       Armenian Embassy; to Rouben Shugarian, Armenian

        12       Ambassador to the United States; and to

        13       Alexander Arzoumanian, United Nations

        14       Representative; and to the President of the

        15       United States.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN:  Senator

        17       Maltese.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President.

        19       On the resolution.

        20                      Father Khatchig Megerdichian has

        21       delivered our invocation very, very well; and

        22       just recently, in Troy, we honored a

        23       representative of the Armenian people that











                                                             
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         1       showed the same courage and strength, a young

         2       man name Arthur Galstian, who came here for an

         3       operation under the auspices of his Armenian

         4       American brothers and sisters presently here.

         5                      One of the reasons that so many

         6       of us across the state and across the nation

         7       have Armenian Americans who are among the

         8       foremost in patriotism, in business skills and

         9       acumen, is because of the genocide perpetrated

        10       by the Ottoman Turks as recited in the

        11       resolution.

        12                      This extermination of a people is

        13       something that should be castigated, criticized

        14       in the strongest possibly terms.  Unfortunately,

        15       the Holocaust, the massacre of the Polish "cream

        16       of the crop," so to speak, in the Kattin Forest

        17       and what is happening today in Bosnia

        18       Herzegovenia echoes the same terrorism and

        19       extermination that happened that attempted to

        20       wipe out the Armenian people.

        21                      We are fortunate, indeed, in

        22       America that so many came to this great land,

        23       the promised land, and have done so much not











                                                             
2649

         1       only for their own people but America.

         2                      We, in the Senate today, not only

         3       memorialize all those close to 2 million

         4       Armenians, men, women, and children, who were

         5       slaughtered so senselessly but we also

         6       congratulate the Armenians here with us who have

         7       done so much for our great nation.

         8                      Colleagues, those of you who wish

         9       to join in this resolution, are invited to do

        10       so.

        11                      (Whereupon, Senator Kuhl was in

        12       the chair.)

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Present.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Senator Maltese

        16       has invited those who wish to join in sponsoring

        17       this resolution.  I think everybody would like

        18       to, except those who decline.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, very good.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        21       is on the resolution.  All those in favor,

        22       signify by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
2650

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The resolution is adopted.

         4                      Senator Saland.

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President.

         6       I would like to star a bill, Calendar Number

         7       599, Senate 7327.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

         9       will place a sponsor star on Calendar Number

        10       599.

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Present.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        15       Let's take up the noncontroversial calendar.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

        17       will call the noncontroversial calendar.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,

        19       Calendar Number 338, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate

        20       Bill Number 3153A, an act to amend the Election

        21       Law.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        23       last section.











                                                             
2651

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.  Nays

         7       1.  Senator Pataki recorded in the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       557, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

        12       4042D, an act to amend the New York Civil Court

        13       Act.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       569, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 7557,

        19       an act to amend a chapter of the laws -

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
2652

         1       577, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

         2       7671, an act to amend the State Finance Law and

         3       the Public Authorities Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

         5       last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       584, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 934,

        16       Civil Service Law, in relation to authorized

        17       absence for volunteer fire fighters.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        19       last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
2653

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       586, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 7057,

         7       an act to amend the administrative -

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can we have one

         9       day on this, please?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Trunzo.

        12                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Lay it aside for

        13       the day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is laid aside for the day.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       588, substituted earlier today, by Member of the

        19       Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Bill Number 10629,

        20       an act to amend the Civil Service Law, in

        21       relation to the powers and duties of the

        22       Director of Classification and Compensation.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.











                                                             
2654

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       590, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

         5       4142, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         6       Law, in relation to the financing and

         7       construction of certain facilities.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

         9       last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       592, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        20       6992A, an act to amend the New York State Urban

        21       Development Corporation Act.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the











                                                             
2655

         1       bill aside.

         2                      Senator Present, that completes

         3       the noncontroversial calendar.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5       Can we take up the controversial calendar.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

         7       will call the controversial calendar.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 13,

         9       Calendar Number 557, by Senator Holland, Senate

        10       Bill Number 4042D, an act to amend the New York

        11       City Civil Court Act.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Holland explanation has been asked for.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

        15       President.  This bill will increase the small

        16       claims jurisdiction for justice courts from two

        17       to three thousand dollars.

        18                      I think most people know that the

        19       justice courts or the people's courts are a much

        20       cheaper, quicker system of having justice

        21       delivered rather than going through the state

        22       Supreme Court.  And this raises the jurisdiction

        23       to a more realistic $3,000 from its present











                                                             
2656

         1       $2,000.

         2                      It was recommended to me by a

         3       town justice.  We have had two years of debate

         4       regarding the bill, because we first wanted to

         5       raise it to 5,000, and the state magistrates

         6       support it, the New York State Chamber of

         7       Commerce supports it, the Northeastern Retail

         8       Lumber Association supports it, The Business

         9       Council supports it.

        10                      That's about it.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I have a

        14       question.  Going on recollection here.  I

        15       believe in the Judiciary Committee -

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Dollinger, are you asking Senator Holland to

        18       yield?

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  My apologies,

        20       Mr. President, for not being appropriate on the

        21       protocol.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Holland, do you yield?











                                                             
2657

         1                      Will Senator Holland yield to a

         2       question?

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Senator.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       does.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, in

         7       the Judiciary Committee, I asked a question

         8       about whether this bill had the support of the

         9       Magistrates Association in the State of New York

        10       and about the local town justices, whether they

        11       had a memo on this issue.

        12                      Do you know whether they have

        13       expressed an opinion on this bill?

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I do.  They

        15       were at first, Senator, opposed to the bill.

        16       But since we have changed it from 5,000 to

        17       3,000, the increase, they are not opposed to it

        18       at this time.  They have issued neither support

        19       nor opposition.

        20                      Oral support.  Oral support.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Let me add one











                                                             
2658

         1       more thing if I could, Senator, too.  OCA is

         2       also in support of the bill.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Holland, do you continue to yield?

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       does.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I didn't hear

         9       the last part of that answer.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I said OCA is

        11       also in support of the bill.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is there any

        13       prediction -- again through you, Mr. President,

        14       if the sponsor will yield.  Is there any

        15       prediction as to how this will increase the

        16       justice court caseloads across the state?

        17                      Obviously, you have an experience

        18       with a town justice who had some free time on

        19       his hands.  I'd just point out that in one of

        20       the towns that I represent, the Town of Greece,

        21       for example, they have three town justices, and

        22       they have a two-year backlog in handling most of

        23       their criminal cases and most of their criminal











                                                             
2659

         1       trials because the caseload is so huge.

         2                      I'm just trying to find out if

         3       the increase -- this jurisdiction will have more

         4       cases there.  How does this affect the overall

         5       backload in justice courts?

         6                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I think it will

         7       reduce the State Supreme Court.  I don't know

         8       that it will increase the justice courts,

         9       Senator.

        10                      As you say, the town justices

        11       support it.  My magistrates association in

        12       Rockland-Orange County support it.  The

        13       Magistrates of the State of New York support it.

        14                      You know there are also two parts

        15       in the justice court system.  One of them is the

        16       civil part.  The civil part has had a

        17       jurisdiction of up to $3,000.  That is the more

        18       controlled section.  Since both of them will

        19       now -- with the passage of this bill, since both

        20       of them will now be at $3,000, there is some

        21       conjecture that the civil part will decrease or

        22       go away, and all of the cases will go into the

        23       other part, and it is much quicker, as you know,











                                                             
2660

         1       cheaper, than the State Supreme Court.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, just on

         3       the bill, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Dollinger on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

         7       the concern.  I will vote in favor of this bill,

         8       but not without some perhaps skepticism on my

         9       part about what this means in my particular

        10       community.  I know that both in the city court

        11       in the city of Rochester and in the justice

        12       courts in the Town of Greece, they have very

        13       significant backlogs.

        14                      I know that approximately a

        15       decade ago, eight or ten years ago, the

        16       jurisdiction was increased from a thousand or

        17       from fifteen hundred to two thousand.  It would

        18       be interesting to me to see how much more

        19       business that brought into the justice courts,

        20       whether that tied up the justice courts, created

        21       a need for new judges.  I just point out that I

        22       have a bill in currently which will provide a

        23       fourth justice in the Town of Greece to try to











                                                             
2661

         1       deal with the backlog problem.

         2                      So I appreciate the interest.  I

         3       like the concept of the small claims courts, but

         4       I'm concerned about the overall cost and the

         5       problem that this may pose for the backlogs in

         6       justice courts across the state.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       569, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number

        19       7557.  It amends Chapter of the Laws of 1994 as

        20       proposed in Legislative Bill Number 6691.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Larkin, explanation has been asked for.











                                                             
2662

         1                      SENATOR LARKIN:  This is a

         2       chapter amendment to a bill that's been -

         3       passed this house, came from the other house.

         4                      And what it does is actually

         5       change the name of the library to coincide with

         6       what has been recommended by the Governor and

         7       the Education Department and include the word

         8       "free".

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Gold.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator yield to a

        12       question?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Larkin, do you yield?

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       does.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, where is

        19       the library?

        20                      SENATOR LARKIN:  The library is

        21       in the Hamlet of Port Ewen in the Town of

        22       Esopus.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  And the people











                                                             
2663

         1       want this change?

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  It's corrected

         3       by the State Education Department.  When it

         4       originally came from the town, it said Esopus,

         5       but the people who are sponsoring the facility

         6       and all is in the Hamlet of Port Ewen.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, but I

         8       mean -- I assume the bill was put in because the

         9       people in that area somehow have an interest in

        10       having this done and you're very responsive to

        11       their needs.

        12                      SENATOR LARKIN:  It's the legal

        13       name of the library, sir.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  But nobody in the

        15       locality cares about this at all, Senator?

        16                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, sir.  This

        17       is in the County of Ulster, sir.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  On the bill, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Gold on the bill.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.  I

        23       want to say that I think it's wonderful that











                                                             
2664

         1       Senator Larkin is so responsive to the people in

         2       this locality.  I think that the name of the

         3       library is really very, very important and

         4       essential, and I am certainly going to support

         5       him because I know that he is here today

         6       fighting for all those wonderful people that

         7       elected him, and even those who didn't vote for

         8       him, necessarily, to respond to the needs of

         9       people at the local level.

        10                      And I'm happy to support the

        11       bill, Senator Larkin, because I know that in the

        12       last analysis, this session is not going to end

        13       without you and your great leadership showing

        14       the respect that we have as a Senate for all the

        15       other little towns and villages and counties

        16       around the state that have asked this

        17       Legislature for their help.

        18                      And I know, Senator Larkin, that

        19       in your heart, all of these little localities

        20       are as important to you whether they are

        21       represented by people on this side of the aisle

        22       or people on your side of the aisle because

        23       politics certainly is not going to stand in the











                                                             
2665

         1       way of the needs of the constituents that send

         2       us up here.

         3                      So I'm going to support it,

         4       Senator Larkin, with the same vigor that I will

         5       support the people of New Windsor and the people

         6       of all the other places around this state who

         7       may come up here and ask for our help.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

         9       last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       588, substituted earlier today, by Member of the

        20       Assembly Vitaliano.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        22       for the day.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the











                                                             
2666

         1       bill aside for the day.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Excuse me.  Hold

         3       on for a second.

         4                      (Whereupon, there was a pause in

         5       the proceedings.)

         6                      On the other hand lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bill is

         8       laid aside for the day.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 15,

        10       Calendar Number 592, by Senator Stafford, Senate

        11       Bill Number 6992A, an act to amend the New York

        12       State Urban Development Corporation Act.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Leichter.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Would my

        17       good friend, Senator Stafford, yield?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Stafford, do you yield?

        20                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       does.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I











                                                             
2667

         1       understand that this bill gives certain

         2       authorization to the Urban Development

         3       Corporation to spend what I believe will be an

         4       appropriation of $50 million, or at least that's

         5       what your memo says; and let me say, I certainly

         6       hope that money will be there, because the aim

         7       is to help communities such as yours where the

         8       Plattsburgh Air Base is closing, and so on.  So

         9       I have no problem whatsoever with the main

        10       thrust of this bill.

        11                      Now, I realize that -- you know,

        12       when you have a bill like this, and people say

        13       this is to help distressed communities, to help

        14       employers in this state who have problems to

        15       retain their employees, everybody says, "Great."

        16       But I just beg you to consider some factors in

        17       this bill and some of the language, because I

        18       think in the past with every good intention and

        19       we have written legislation to try to create

        20       jobs and we really weren't helping the people of

        21       the state.  Very often, we ended up squandering

        22       a lot money, and I have a number of concerns;

        23       and that's, Senator, what I want to discuss with











                                                             
2668

         1       you.

         2                      I have no problem whatsoever when

         3       it talks about that this is "to benefit

         4       communities impacted by a potential or planned

         5       military base closing," because that's very

         6       clear; "and/or downsizing," that is part of the

         7       military base closing or downsizing.  Then it

         8       says, "For the benefit of communities whose

         9       employment is impacted by the downsizing of

        10       major employers," and I don't think there is any

        11       problem with that.

        12                      But there is also some language

        13       that I think is very loose language, at the

        14       beginning of paragraph 2, where it says, "Such

        15       funds shall be used to provide financial

        16       assistance in the form of working capital loans

        17       or loan guarantees to companies at imminent risk

        18       of reducing employment."

        19                      Senator, we've had a lot of

        20       companies, NYNEX, IBM, others, who have decided

        21       as a matter of corporate strategy that they were

        22       going to reduce the number of employees, not

        23       that these companies weren't profitable.  They











                                                             
2669

         1       wanted to become more profitable.  That's the

         2       style now in business.  Why should a company

         3       like that be eligible for a loan, as it would be

         4       under this legislation.

         5                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Well, that was

         6       a long question.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  It was.

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  But I will try

         9       to answer it, and probably will take as long.

        10                      First, I think that if we have

        11       established companies here in New York and there

        12       is a danger of them leaving or downsizing

        13       employees, the number of employees, and we can

        14       do something which will make it possible for

        15       them to either not downsize or at least -- and

        16       increase, of course we would like to do it -

        17       but if it would just result in not downsizing,

        18       it's important.

        19                      I would say this about our local

        20       firms -- and this is by no means pointing at

        21       you, Senator.  It's pointing at me.  It's

        22       pointing at all of us.  We have worked hard, and

        23       we've tried to get businesses from other











                                                             
2670

         1       countries, businesses from other states,

         2       businesses from obviously from outside the

         3       United States and outside New York State.

         4       Frankly, I don't think we have worked as close

         5       with our local firms as we could and I think we

         6       should work much closer.

         7                      You probably are aware -- I just

         8       saw this in the paper the other day.  I read

         9       along and it looked like we were trying to keep

        10       firms in this state, and it was an ad by one of

        11       the Carolinas who were trying to get firms, and

        12       they were going to interview them to get them to

        13       come into their area.  This has become very

        14       competitive.  It's a business.  It is a

        15       profession that these people are involved in,

        16       and I think that we have to be very vigilant.

        17                      And I would point out these

        18       loans, we feel, is the way to go.  It's a hand

        19       up rather than a handout, and I think all

        20       involved in this -- our Majority Leader, all who

        21       have worked on it, I think it's really a step in

        22       the right direction, and it's something we

        23       should have been doing a long time ago.











                                                             
2671

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

         2       have no problem whatsoever with that concept.  I

         3       support it.  The point that I'm trying to make,

         4       Senator, is that this is language that is so

         5       broad that would apply to companies that are in

         6       no respect deserving of help from the State of

         7       New York.

         8                      What I'm suggesting is that we

         9       could craft legislation that is much more

        10       carefully drawn.

        11                      Let me make one suggestion to

        12       you.  Why not provide in there that one of the

        13       conditions of making these loans to the

        14       companies is that they not move any of their

        15       operation out of the State of New York?  Where

        16       is that in the legislation?

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Could I ask

        18       you a question, please?

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Sure.

        20                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Are you in the

        21       private sector?

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Am I in the

        23       private sector?  Well, right now, I'm in the











                                                             
2672

         1       public sector.

         2                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Do you work in

         3       the private sector?

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I have

         5       activities outside of my legislative activities

         6       that I rarely have time for.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  It's a

         8       business; right?

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  We like to

        10       call it a profession, Senator.  It's the same

        11       profession that you're engaged in.

        12                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.  Let's

        13       call it a profession.  Would you make any

        14       agreement that you wouldn't move your business

        15       or your profession?

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if I

        17       go and I get help from the State of New York, if

        18       I go to the State of New York, and I say, "I

        19       want to improve my computerization; give me

        20       money as a loan," certainly the State of New

        21       York has a right to ask of me, "For ten years,

        22       you will stay here," or fifteen years or twenty

        23       years or whatever it is.











                                                             
2673

         1                      These are the aspects of the bill

         2        -- and it is only one aspect.  There are others

         3       that I will try to address, not all of them

         4       because we'd be here all afternoon.  But what I

         5       think is a very well-intentioned bill, Senator,

         6       that is not carefully enough drawn.

         7                      I have no problem, by the way,

         8       with the provision that's in there to help your

         9       community, and a community that I have some

        10       familiarity with, because I think the standards

        11       are very clear.  But I think there are other

        12       aspects here that are so broadly worded that it

        13       would mean that we could be giving loans to

        14       companies that would not stay in New York State;

        15       don't have a commitment in New York State; have,

        16       in fact, reduced employment in New York State

        17       for no other reason than maybe they've moved

        18       some of their facilities already overseas; and

        19       now we're going to say, "Well, you have

        20       increased your employment in New York State by

        21       moving some of your facilities to Brazil; now

        22       you are eligible for a loan from New York

        23       State."  That's what I object to.











                                                             
2674

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I don't think

         2       that would happen.  Senator, I very seldom

         3       suggest that you're one to nitpick.  You very

         4       open take a broad stroke with a conceptual

         5       brush, and I usually realize that many of your

         6       points are well taken, but I'm reading the four

         7       lines now that you're talking about, and I think

         8       it would suggest that this is no problem.  These

         9       are firms we should help.

        10                      I think if you and I say that

        11       we're going to have this type of legislation,

        12       this type of support, and companies are going to

        13       have to say or agree not to move out of New

        14       York, I think maybe we're dreaming because there

        15       will be plenty of places they can go where they

        16       don't have to do that.

        17                      We've got to make this state -

        18       you know, here we are arguing here today.  We

        19       have to make this state more friendly to

        20       business.  I admit, there was a time when I

        21       didn't think maybe it was as serious as it

        22       really is; but practically not a day and surely

        23       not a week goes by that I don't talk to somebody











                                                             
2675

         1       in business, and they are making this point or

         2       that point why they could do better in another

         3       state.  And I think we're going to have to make

         4       sure that we provide this support.

         5                      Now, let's read this.  Let's read

         6       it together.  Have you got 16 B.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Excuse me?

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Is that what

         9       you were reading?

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I'm reading

        11       your bill.

        12                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  You said you

        13       had some concern about some language.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Right.  It's

        15       on 16 B.

        16                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Paragraph 2 of

        18       subdivision 2, line 9, "Such funds shall be used

        19       to provide financial assistance in the form of

        20       working capital, loans or loan guarantees to

        21       companies at imminent risk of reducing

        22       employment or seeking to improve performance to

        23       survive competitive threats from outside the











                                                             
2676

         1       state."  Right?  Is that the language that's in

         2       your bill?

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I'm reading it

         4       with you.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         6                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Or you read

         7       it.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I was going to

        10       do it together.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I suggest to

        12       you, Senator Stafford, that that it is so

        13       broadly worded that it would qualify companies

        14       that are downsizing because they feel it's to

        15       their -- because it's going to add money to

        16       their bottom line, which we know so many

        17       companies have been doing, unrelated in any

        18       respect to problems such as base closing or

        19       other economic factors where New York State

        20       should step in.

        21                      Secondly, Senator, what I think

        22       is a problem is that we don't impose conditions

        23       to assure that those loans in fact are going to











                                                             
2677

         1       go towards creating jobs in New York State or

         2       providing that the companies that receive these

         3       loans make some guarantees that they are going

         4       to hire more people.  Where does it say in there

         5       they even have to hire any more people?

         6                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  You know, I

         7       find that this is a difference in philosophy, I

         8       realize, but -

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I don't see

        10       any difference in philosophy -

        11                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I do.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But I -

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I do.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Unless the

        15       philosophy is, Senator, if I may say, that I

        16       think that we ought to draft legislation

        17       carefully.  If your philosophy is that as long

        18       as we express good intentions that's all that we

        19       need to do, then, yes, we do have a difference

        20       of philosophy.

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  No.  We have a

        22       difference in philosophy.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
2678

         1       Leichter, are you asking Senator Stafford to

         2       continue to yield?

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If you would.

         4       Let me move on to this question, Senator.  This

         5       relates to your community and I know what a

         6       suburb job you do in fighting for what you think

         7       are the interests of your community.

         8                      You are giving this power to the

         9       Urban Development Corporation, Senator.  Why

        10       isn't there a provision in there that there be

        11       some local board set up or a subsidiary of the

        12       Urban Development Corporation to carry out the

        13       implementation of this program?

        14                      Now, we've done some of that in

        15       New York.  There is a subsidiary of the Urban

        16       Development Corporation for Harlem which has a

        17       separate board of directors.  Where is the local

        18       input?

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I understand.

        20       This is a grant to the community.  At the

        21       present time, for instance, in Plattsburgh there

        22       is a local organization.  It would go to the

        23       communities, and they would have their own











                                                             
2679

         1       organizations.  I don't think that we need

         2       government on top of government on top of

         3       government to get this done.  These are high

         4       profile projects, and things are going to get

         5       done.

         6                      When I heard the argument,

         7       getting back to -- you were making earlier that

         8       will they guarantee that you will increase

         9       employment.  Anyone who asks that question

        10       doesn't understand business, because you don't

        11       know whether you can increase employees until

        12       you make money; and, unfortunately, many people

        13       that consider these issues here in Albany don't

        14       understand that.

        15                      Hi, Joe.

        16                      SENATOR GALIBER:  How are you?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Leichter, are you asking Senator to continue to

        19       yield?

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I accept that

        21       as a question and answer it.  The fact of the

        22       matter is that in many instances government does

        23       precisely that.  They say that if you add











                                                             
2680

         1       employees, we will make a grant.  We will give

         2       you a loan.  We will give you a tax benefit.

         3       But to say that we're going to give you the

         4       money and you are not even under the obligation

         5       to increase employment, that just makes no

         6       sense.

         7                      Now, I want to distinguished the

         8       point I'm making.  This is not in relation to

         9       the criteria that communities that have military

        10       bases that close or downsize will be eligible

        11       for grants.  I understand that there you go in

        12       and you say, "Okay, we're going to try to set up

        13       an industrial park.  We're going to help this

        14       company," and so on.  I have no problem with

        15       that, Senator.  My only problem there is I don't

        16       see where the local input is as far as seeing

        17       how the Urban Development Corporation is going

        18       to spend that money and make the decisions.

        19                      But it is in the first part of

        20       the bill that you and I read together.  I read

        21       out loud the companies that will be eligible for

        22       this without, it seems to me, any standards

        23       whatsoever of assuring that this will benefit











                                                             
2681

         1       the people of the State of New York.

         2                      Senator, we don't pass moral

         3       exortations.  We don't pass good intentions.

         4       We've got to pass bills that I think specify

         5       with some detail how the money is to be spent.

         6       That's our job in the legislature, and I must

         7       say to you, very frankly, I don't find that this

         8       bill does it.

         9                      Mr. President.  If I may, just

        10       briefly on the bill.

        11                      I thank my good friend for his

        12       answers, but I think, Senator, the problem is

        13       that the Urban Development Corporation in many

        14       respects has become sort of a super agency.

        15       Doesn't seem to me that it's under much control,

        16       certainly not under much control of this

        17       Legislature.  Does a lot of things in this state

        18       some of which to my mind are very questionable.

        19       Some of them should be done by state agencies,

        20       ought to be done under the constraints and the

        21       restrictions that apply to all state agencies.

        22                      Here, you are giving these

        23       enormous broad parameters to the state Urban











                                                             
2682

         1       Development Corporation as to what they can do.

         2       I submit to you that $15 million is still a fair

         3       amount of money.  It is important that we see

         4       that it be used in the very best way, in a very

         5       directed, very targeted, hopefully a very

         6       effective way.  I submit to you that this bill

         7       doesn't do it.

         8                      Let me be very clear.  I'm in

         9       favor of helping those communities that have

        10       military bases that close.  I'm in favor of

        11       helping communities in the Hudson Valley area

        12       that have been impacted by the decline in

        13       employment there by IBM's cutbacks and so on;

        14       but I submit to you that some of the language

        15       here is terribly broad, that the money can be

        16       wasted, and that I think we've got an obligation

        17       to write more carefully, more specific

        18       legislation.

        19                      So I'm not against the concept of

        20       this bill, but I don't think that this gives us

        21       the control over the monies that we should

        22       have.  I think we've got an obligation to do

        23       more than, say, to legislate, "I want to be











                                                             
2683

         1       business friendly."  That doesn't achieve

         2       anything.  Senator.

         3                      I agree with you.  You're right.

         4       You are a fine spokesperson for that.  Yes, we

         5       need to do it.  I don't think you are being

         6       business friendly or being friendly to the

         7       taxpayers of the State of New York when you

         8       present a bill that's as broad as this one is

         9       written.  This is great for the Urban

        10       Development Corporation that likes to be, if you

        11       will, a separate or a four branch of government,

        12       but it doesn't do much, I think, for us in the

        13       responsibility that we have to see how money in

        14       this state is spent so that, indeed, we become

        15       business friendly and that we create jobs for

        16       the people of this state.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr.

        20       President.  I will just emphasize here -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The chair

        22       recognizes Senator Stafford.

        23                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  -- what a fine











                                                             
2684

         1       step I think this legislation is.  Why I think

         2       it is is because it is a revolving loan fund.

         3       It will be providing capital, be providing

         4       funds, say nothing of increasing employment, to

         5       maintain the employment that we have here in New

         6       York State.

         7                      I think as I have said earlier,

         8       it's something that has been needed, obviously,

         9       for areas such as Plattsburgh, other areas in

        10       this state, where we have this tragedy of bases

        11       closing, thousands of people, civilians, not

        12       having jobs.  It's most important.  But it's

        13       also important for these businesses we have, or

        14       the businesses that will come in where we can

        15       provide these loans.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Galiber.

        21                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator

        22       Stafford, I came in late on the discussion, but

        23       some of us are concerned, and I think this is a











                                                             
2685

         1       good opportunity, this particular piece of

         2       legislation, because there is going to come a

         3       time in this session when we are going to start

         4       talking about cutting taxes as far as business

         5       is concerned.  And some of us are concerned and

         6       perhaps this is the prelude to some of the

         7       things that we are concerned about on this side

         8       of the aisle and certainly your side of the

         9       aisle.

        10                      We will be dealing with tax cuts,

        11       whether it's the net operation loss or some

        12       other categories, where we don't know where

        13       those credits are being used, whether they are

        14       used outside of our jurisdiction, whether we are

        15       aware, whether we are the primary

        16       beneficiaries.

        17                      We recognize on this side of the

        18       aisle, some of us, that certainly in the Mid

        19       Hudson where IBM has moved out and left a plant

        20       or two, left some highly technical persons who

        21       are capable of moving in to high tech, and

        22       businesses will not come in.  Businesses will

        23       not come in because of our tax structure; but











                                                             
2686

         1       certainly our experience has been -- with a UDC

         2       loan program on a smaller scale in the City of

         3       New York has been horrible; that in order to get

         4       these loans, you have to fall off the Empire

         5       State Building -- as you've heard me say

         6       before -- land on your thumb and survive in

         7       order to be eligible for these loans.

         8                      So certainly in this instance

         9       where there's downsizing and we're closing up

        10       the federal purposes, or whatever the case may

        11       be, the economy -- we welcome this opportunity

        12       of a rise of the economy in our state -- that we

        13       are certainly concerned, as you are.  But I have

        14       a proclivity toward agreeing with my colleague;

        15       that there is absolutely nothing wrong with

        16       finding out who is eligible, who is going to be

        17       using this money and how are they going to be

        18       using it; or are we going to run into the same

        19       problems that we run in, with big corporations,

        20       when we consider the possibility of a surcharge

        21       and cutting it down where it should be, and then

        22       the net operation loss category I mentioned

        23       before, and a couple of other taxes that we are











                                                             
2687

         1       prepared to cut.  And we're doing this with a

         2       full recognition that we don't know where some

         3       of these corporations are on the state level, as

         4       opposed to on a national level, are using those

         5       credits that we are giving or using the money

         6       that we give into them.

         7                      So this gives us an opportunity

         8       to look at the language in this particular piece

         9       of legislation and see to it that when we do

        10       give the loans in these areas where it is sorely

        11       needed; that there's no question about that.

        12       Good intent.  Good piece of legislation.  And

        13       those areas in the State of New York should be

        14       helped, but we just want to make sure that we

        15       know where those benefits are going to be

        16       actually going.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
2688

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Leichter to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

         5                      Mr. President.  I'm maybe being

         6       repetitive because I think I made my point, but

         7       I want the record to be absolutely clear that I

         8       strongly support giving help to communities

         9       where military bases are being closed.  In fact,

        10       under this bill as I read it, of the 50 million

        11       appropriated no more than 15 percent can go to

        12       some of those communities which I think is far

        13       too low.  I support 50 million just for those

        14       communities that have military bases that have

        15       closed.  And I know Senator Stafford I'm sure

        16       tried to get the maximum amount to help his

        17       community.  I support that.

        18                      But there are aspects of this

        19       bill that are so broadly worded that we ought to

        20       write our economic development legislation in a

        21       way to be sure that the companies that receive

        22       the benefits stay in this state, increase

        23       employment in this state.  That would be a real











                                                             
2689

         1       benefit.

         2                      And I say to everybody here the

         3       Urban Development Corporation is pretty much a

         4       corporation out of control, because we have not

         5       exercised jurisdiction over it.  And for that

         6       reason, too, Mr. President, I think the way this

         7       bill is worded without effective criteria

         8       standards and control is unwise.

         9                      And for that reason and only that

        10       reason, I will vote in the negative.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Leichter in the negative.  Announce the results.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.  Nays

        14       1.  Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      Senator Libous.

        18                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  On behalf of Senator Hannon, on page

        20       13, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        21       Number 558, Senate Print 5206, and ask that said

        22       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        23       Calendar.











                                                             
2690

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bill is

         2       amended and retains its place on the Third

         3       Reading Calendar.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  If there is no

         6       more housekeeping, Mr. Cornell, is your desk

         7       clear?

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  (Indicating yes.)

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        10       There being no further business, I move we

        11       adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        13       stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

        14                      (Whereupon, at 4:29 p.m., Senate

        15       adjourned.)

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