Regular Session - May 4, 1994

                                                                 
3195

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                         May 4, 1994

        11                          10:00 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                        REGULAR SESSION

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        17

        18       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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3196

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Senators take your

         4       places.  Let's all rise and join with me in

         5       saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                      (The assemblage repeated the

         7       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have

         9       the very distinguished honor of being joined by

        10       Chaplain Richard Camp, who is the chaplain at

        11       the military establishment at West Point, and

        12       for the invocation.  Chaplain Camp.

        13                      CHAPLAIN CAMP:  Let us pray

        14       together.

        15                      We stand tall in these moments to

        16       applaud you, O God.  You are the creator and

        17       sustainer of the universe.  In a world uncertain

        18       about many things, we pause in this hushed

        19       moment of prayer sure of You and Your goodness.

        20                      We turn to You in our anxiety

        21       about the future, about the welfare of our state

        22       and our nation and our legacy to our children.

        23                      Give us wisdom that with Your











                                                             
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         1       counsel, we will chart the course in accordance

         2       with Your word.  And we ask Your guidance upon

         3       the men and women who serve here in the affairs

         4       of New York State.  We remember too before You

         5       all those who lead and guide the colleges and

         6       the universities of and in New York, and today

         7       we pray for the United States Military Academy.

         8                      May our purpose remain clear, our

         9       mission noble and our product standing tall for

        10       what's right and good.  In Your faithful name we

        11       pray.  Amen.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Reading

        13       of the Journal.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        15       Tuesday, May 3rd.  The Senate pursuant to

        16       adjournment, Senator Spano in the Chair upon

        17       designation of the Temporary President.  Prayer

        18       by Bishop Muriel Grant of Brooklyn.  The Journal

        19       of Monday, May 2nd, was read and approved.  On

        20       motion, Senate adjourned.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Hearing no

        22       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.











                                                             
3198

         1                      Messages from the Assembly.

         2                      Messages from the Governor.

         3                      Reports of standing committees.

         4                      Reports of select committees.

         5                      Communications and reports from

         6       state officers.

         7                      Motions and resolutions.

         8                      Senator Johnson.

         9                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        10       I've got a motion to make.  I don't have the

        11       page number right before me, unfortunately, but

        12       it is Calendar Number 285, please remove the

        13       sponsor's star.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

        15       star is removed on Calendar Number 285.

        16                      Senator Velella.

        17                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Calendar 472,

        18       Senate Print 6859-A, would you place a sponsor's

        19       star on that bill, please?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

        21       star is placed on Calendar Number 482.

        22                      The Secretary will read some

        23       substitutions.











                                                             
3199

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5 of

         2       today's calendar, Senator Smith moves to

         3       discharge the Committee on Cities from Assembly

         4       Bill Number 8067-A and substitute it for the

         5       Identical Calendar Number 755.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Substitution is

         7       ordered.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,

         9       Senator Levy moves to discharge the Committee on

        10       transportation from Assembly Bill Number 9611

        11       and substitute it for the Identical Calendar

        12       Number 762.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Substitution is ordered.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 10,

        16       Senator Sears moves to discharge the Committee

        17       on Consumer Protection from Assembly Bill Number

        18       8832-B and substitute it for identical Calendar

        19       Number 795.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Substitution is

        21       ordered.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

        23       Senator Farley moves to discharge the Committee











                                                             
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         1       on Local Government from Assembly Bill Number

         2       6710 and substitute it for the identical

         3       Calendar Number 811.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Substitution is ordered.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

         7       Senator Skelos moves to discharge the Committee

         8       on Local Government from Assembly Bill Number

         9       8460-A and substitute it for the identical

        10       Calendar Number 817.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Substitution is

        12       ordered.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 15,

        14       Senator Maltese moves to discharge the Committee

        15       on Crime Victims, Crime and Correction from

        16       Assembly Bill Number 7960 substitute it for the

        17       identical Calendar Number 834.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        19       Substitution is ordered.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        22       would you recognize Senator Larkin, please?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
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         1       Larkin.

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

         3       believe we have a privileged resolution at the

         4       desk.  I wish it to be read in its entirety.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         6       will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

         8       Resolution, by Senators Larkin, Marino and all

         9       members of the Senate, celebrating the

        10       establishment of the United States Military

        11       Academy at West Point and calling upon Governor

        12       Mario M. Cuomo to declare May 4th, 1994 as "West

        13       Point Day" in New York State;

        14                      WHEREAS this legislative body is

        15       justly proud to celebrate the establishment of

        16       the United States Military Academy at West Point

        17       and to call upon Governor Mario M. Cuomo to

        18       declare May 4th, 1994 as "West Point Day" in New

        19       York State;

        20                      By an act of Congress on March

        21       16th, 1802, the United States Military Academy

        22       was established within the borders of New York

        23       State on the banks of the Hudson River.











                                                             
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         1                      The Academy and its graduates are

         2       an integral part of the proud history of this

         3       state and nation.

         4                      The leadership and sacrifices of

         5       the members of "the Long Grey Line" have helped

         6       this country withstand countless threats to our

         7       cherished democratic way of life.

         8                      The alumni has -- have excelled

         9       not only on the battle field but in many fields

        10       of endeavor.

        11                      The Academy continues to provide

        12       our country with able and dedicated future

        13       leaders.

        14                      Its scenic campus is a mecca each

        15       year for thousands of visitors from across our

        16       state, continent and other countries.

        17                      The United States Military

        18       Academy is in the forefront of our state's

        19       outstanding institutions of higher learning.

        20                      Forty-five years ago, the late

        21       James T. McNamara, then a member of the New York

        22       State Assembly and a member of the Academy's

        23       class of 1939, was the author of the state











                                                             
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         1       Legislature's first West Point Day resolution.

         2                      For decades, our nation has

         3       enjoyed the legacy of freedom, and the United

         4       States Military Academy at West Point has played

         5       a vitally significant role in the maintenance of

         6       peace and freedom.

         7                      These members of the august

         8       chambers are equally as proud to commemorate

         9       this event marking "West Point Day" in New York

        10       State; now, therefore, be it

        11                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        12       body pause in its deliberations to celebrate the

        13       establishment of the United States Military

        14       Academy at West Point and to call upon Governor

        15       Mario M. Cuomo to declare May 4th, 1994 as "West

        16       Point Day" in New York State; and be it further

        17                      RESOLVED, that a copy of this

        18       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        19       to Governor Mario M. Cuomo.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Larkin on the resolution.

        22                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        23       on the resolution.  It is an honor and privilege











                                                             
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         1       to offer this resolution on behalf of the United

         2       States Military Academy at West Point.

         3                      This is a tradition, its 45th

         4       year, that we paid the respect and homage that

         5       is due to the Academy, its faculty, its staff

         6       and most important, its cadets.  I want to

         7       welcome General Graves, the Superintendent of

         8       the United States Military Academy.  I'm very

         9       proud that you have been able to join with us

        10       today, General Graves.

        11                      General Graves, ladies and

        12       gentlemen, is a graduate of the United States

        13       Military Academy.  He's had a distinguished

        14       military career, serving in such famed combat

        15       units as the 82nd All American Airborne Division

        16       and also the 1st Infantry Division commonly

        17       referred to as the "Big Red 1".

        18                      General Graves has also served in

        19       many distinguished posts in the United States as

        20       well as abroad, and before assuming his position

        21       as Superintendent of the Military Academy, he

        22       was the number two man in the Joint Chiefs of

        23       Staff working closely with General Powell.  In











                                                             
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         1       1991, he became the superintendent of the

         2       academy.  General Graves, it's an honor to

         3       welcome you here today.

         4                      You know, as we look at these

         5       young cadets, all of us should take a step back

         6       and reflect on their lives, not only of today

         7       but what their lives will be in the future.

         8       Will it be in Bosnia, will it be in Korea, will

         9       it be in Haiti, will it be back to Somalia or

        10       where it might be.  These are the young people

        11       who have taken and will put four years in as a

        12       cadet and have a commitment for five years to

        13       their country.  They will be the individuals,

        14       men and women on the front line, whether it is

        15       maintaining peace, humanitarian duties and some

        16       will eventually leave and lead private

        17       corporations and lead segments of government.

        18                      If you think about the Academy,

        19       you think about some of the great leaders that

        20       we've had.  Just look, Pershing, Eisenhower,

        21       Patton, MacArthur, and when you look at the

        22       Desert, you think of General Norman

        23       Schwartzkopf.











                                                             
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         1                      These cadets, quite honestly,

         2       don't know what the future is, nor do we, but

         3       they have accepted the challenge and are willing

         4       to do it.  We're truly proud of you, not just

         5       for being here.  What we really want to say to

         6       you, is that we're proud that there are men and

         7       women and especially those of you, except for

         8       the first captain, who happens to come from

         9       Texas like the sup', of those of you from New

        10       York who thought enough about your life in the

        11       future and the fact that you wanted to be a part

        12       of something.  You are a part of something that

        13       stands out.  You're a visible sight.  You are a

        14       sight for America.  Two and a half million

        15       visitors come to the Point each year and they

        16       see you, and when they see you, they see

        17       America's finest.

        18                      Mr. President, I would like to

        19       acknowledge those who are here with us today.

        20       First, the Superintendent of the United States

        21       Military Academy, that is distinguished

        22       Superintendent Lieutenant General Howard Graves;

        23       the director of public affairs, Lieutenant











                                                             
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         1       Colonel Don McGrath from the great county of

         2       Nassau; our cadet chaplain who you just heard

         3       from, Chaplain Camp; the aide to general Graves,

         4       Major Thomas Kassner, and a tactical officer -

         5       and for those of you who don't know what a

         6       tactical officer is, he's like your father, he

         7       runs you day and night -- Captain Woods; and

         8       from the public affairs office, Ms. Gascon right

         9       here.

        10                      The cadets that are with us

        11       today:  Cadet Kristina Sinacori from Pomona, New

        12       York, Rockland County.  Please stand up as I

        13       call your name.  Cadet Wang John Hwang from

        14       Flushing, New York; Cadet Katharyn Kilbride from

        15       Garden City; Cadet Kyle Jette from Amsterdam;

        16       Cadet Deidre Spence from Liverpool; Cadet

        17       Tiffany Havasy from Scotia; Cadet Bradley

        18       Harrison from Briarcliff Manor; Cadet Gregory

        19       Yatarola from Dolgeville; Cadet Kristen Carlson

        20       from Staten Island; Cadet Adrian Rodriguez from

        21       the Bronx, and the leader of the corps of

        22       cadets, the first captain, Howard Hoege of

        23       Kingwood, Texas.











                                                             
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         1                      Ladies and gentlemen, the

         2       Military Academy at West Point.

         3                      (Applause.)

         4                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Montgomery, Senator Larkin still has the floor.

         8                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Oh, I'm

         9       sorry.  I thought you sat down, Senator.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Marchi indicated a desire to speak.  Did you

        12       want to speak also on the resolution, Senator

        13       Montgomery?

        14                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marchi.

        17                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I'll yield to

        18       you first.

        19                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

        20       Senator Marchi.

        21                      I'll be very brief.  I just

        22       wanted to especially compliment this group of

        23       cadets because I see there are a number of











                                                             
3209

         1       women, and I think that more than ever, we're

         2       going to need those women in the military

         3       because the kinds of conflicts that we are

         4       experiencing across the world, I think are going

         5       to -- it's going to make a difference that we

         6       have women there.  We saw how important and how

         7       significant it was that women were in the most

         8       recent -- in our most recent involvement as a

         9       military conflict situation, and so I just want

        10       to welcome you as a woman who sometimes I feel

        11       that I'm also in the military here in the Senate

        12       in many ways.  We have our own battles to wage

        13       as women here, and so I want to reach out to you

        14       and say, welcome, congratulations, not to

        15       diminish the men but certainly to lift up the

        16       fact that we have women there, and I would also

        17       like to especially welcome the cadet from

        18       Texas.  In my other life, I was a Texan, so I'm

        19       a New Yorker now, but I love -- I still love

        20       Texas.  Welcome.  Welcome.  Welcome.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Marchi.

        23                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,











                                                             
3210

         1       Senator Montgomery called our attention to the

         2       fact that we now have a term that we can't use

         3       anymore, I guess the distaff side in rich

         4       measure and, of course, one of them is from the

         5       county of Richmond.

         6                      I was reminded -- I was reminded

         7       in observing the Senator's remarks that we have

         8       a comparable experience here on this floor with

         9       our own bases of operation and our own tactical

        10       maneuvers and battles hopefully coming out with

        11       products that in some way reflect basic needs

        12       and goals and objectives.

        13                      I remember Senator Brydges who

        14       was the Majority Leader of this house many years

        15       ago, said that -- quoted Oscar Wilde in

        16       describing our own life and is somewhat

        17       descriptive of your own, that "He who lives more

        18       lives than one more lives then one must die",

        19       because you are engaged in a total experience

        20       that becomes so much a part of you, that when

        21       you leave it or you separate yourself from it,

        22       it -- it's a kind of death.  On the other hand,

        23       it's redeemed completely and given total











                                                             
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         1       vindication in the prayer that the chaplain gave

         2       us, and that is the moral, the moral and

         3       spiritual element that is central to your

         4       purpose, central to your motivation, and your

         5       role in defending freedom and defending world

         6       peace.

         7                      This is a tremendous responsi

         8       bility that you are carrying, and if you keep

         9       alive that flame of faith, that spiritual faith

        10       that has sustained great leaders and great

        11       people that have ever come out of the Academy,

        12       whatever their roles, whether they exercised the

        13       highest levels of responsibility or intermediate

        14       levels, all of them had a profound effect, not

        15       only on results which we hope furthered the

        16       cause of freedom and peace, but also in

        17       regenerating the spirit of mankind, the humanity

        18       itself that we are dedicated to this principle

        19       and you are active agents in protecting it,

        20       shielding it, and ensuring that it remains

        21       central to our purpose as a nation and as a

        22       people.

        23                      I'd just like to have my remarks











                                                             
3212

         1       joined with the others that have been made

         2       because they certainly -- I address you as a

         3       grandfather, not even a father would -- each and

         4       every one of you, and in you I see so much hope

         5       of what is good and best for this country in the

         6       future.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       DeFrancisco.

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I'm very

        10       proud to rise and greet Deidre Spence from my

        11       district, and I want to speak in a little

        12       different vein than what's been said before.

        13                      You know, unfortunately, what we

        14       see and hear most in the media and even on the

        15       Senate floor or anywhere you go is all the

        16       problems of this world and all the dim future

        17       that we had because people don't have

        18       responsibility anymore.  They don't act

        19       responsibly.  They don't act with character.

        20       They don't act with dignity or just plain

        21       sensitivity, and I just met Deidre at 10:00

        22       o'clock this morning, and unfortunately, I

        23       didn't get a chance to speak with the other











                                                             
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         1       cadets, but I'm sure the same can be said for

         2       them.

         3                      You get this great feeling being

         4       around them that there is a future for this

         5       country, there is a future, that we do have

         6       people like this that are disciplined, that are

         7       responsible human beings, that are going to help

         8       make this country even greater than it is now,

         9       so I welcome all of you and congratulate all of

        10       you and thank you for coming, in a personal

        11       sense that it makes me feel good that maybe we

        12       do have the future that I hope we have for my

        13       children who happen to be your ages as you sit

        14       there today.

        15                      And thank you and congratu

        16       lations.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Wright.

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        20       rise to join my colleagues in recognizing West

        21       Point and the fine young men and women who have

        22       joined us today as cadets.

        23                      I represent the city of











                                                             
3214

         1       Watertown, Jefferson County area in my district

         2       that serves as home to Fort Drum and the 10th

         3       Mountain Division, and I hope and know that many

         4       of these young men and women will at some time

         5       during their military career spend time at that

         6       assignment and spend time in my community, and

         7       I'm sure they will, as their predecessors have,

         8       distinguished the uniform and the nation that

         9       they serve and blend in with that community and

        10       make it a strong integral part of New York

        11       State, and I would remind my colleagues that

        12       while we're recognizing West Point today, that

        13       it too is not only a military installation in

        14       this state that provides certainly our officer

        15       corps and the leadership, but it also is an

        16       important part of the economy of this state as

        17       are the other military installations.

        18                      It's an important aspect that

        19       when we're recognizing these young men and

        20       women, we also recognize the Army itself, its

        21       involvement in New York State and reinforce New

        22       York State's commitment to support the United

        23       States Army, the other military services and the











                                                             
3215

         1       important role that they play in this state.

         2                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Rath.

         5                      SENATOR RATH:  Thank you.

         6                      I rise also to say how happy I am

         7       to participate in the day with the young cadets

         8       from West Point and the former cadets who are

         9       now our military leaders at the Point.  I'm part

        10       of their generation.

        11                      Quote, "A man who has never lost

        12       himself in a cause bigger than himself has

        13       missed one of life's mountaintop experiences."

        14       I had my staff send that quote to me last week

        15       because I thought I might have occasion to use

        16       it.  I was late and I didn't get a chance to use

        17       their quote, but a week ago today we read our

        18       resolution in this chamber and adopted it, went

        19       to the steps of the Capitol and participated in

        20       a 21-gun salute honoring Richard Milhous Nixon.

        21       The quote I just read to you is from Former

        22       President Nixon.

        23                      That brings me to something that











                                                             
3216

         1       happened this morning, a memorial for deceased

         2       members of the Legislature.  All of this is new

         3       to me.  You have to understand I'm a freshman

         4       and so as a freshman, everything I do is a new

         5       experience and I'm putting it all together with

         6       what I hope will be a mountaintop experience for

         7       me some day here in this chamber.  The rabbi in

         8       that memorial service reminded us of the

         9       Thornton Wilder play, "Our Town" and the

        10       character Emily.  If you haven't read it lately

        11       or if you haven't read it at all, I would

        12       recommend that you read it because the message

        13       from Emily is to remember to live life while you

        14       are living it, and you're at the beginning of

        15       some very interesting lives, and that play will

        16       be -- will speak to you at age 21 or 22.  It

        17       will speak to you at age 50 because the message

        18       is clear.  Remember to live life while you are

        19       living it.

        20                      My staff person who sent these

        21       quotes to me didn't know what I was going to

        22       want and offered me two quotes to use last week

        23       had I needed or been able to use those quotes,











                                                             
3217

         1       and I would like to close with the following

         2       which was a second quote that was sent to me,

         3       and I think that message is also very clear.

         4                      Quote, "There is something

         5       better, if possible, that a man can give than

         6       his life; that is his living spirit to a service

         7       that is not easy."  President Woodrow Wilson.  I

         8       believe sometimes your service will not be easy,

         9       but the spirit in which you live that service

        10       will be an honor to all of us and to you all who

        11       are doing it so gracefully and with so much good

        12       heart and with such high hopes.

        13                      Thank you for being what you are.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        15       recognizes Senator Gold.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      Mr. President, I'm not ashamed to

        19       say that I'm old enough to remember some of

        20       those great old movies, the "West Point Story"

        21       and all of those which were at a time when you

        22       see a movie and you didn't have to worry about

        23       crazy endings but they were just wonderful











                                                             
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         1       stories and you felt great to be an American

         2       when you saw these -- these movies.

         3                      And this is always a good day for

         4       us in Albany.  I look at these fine young people

         5       and understand that with what we are giving

         6       them, they unquestionably have an obligation to

         7       us.  On the other hand, what is really more

         8       important is that we in government have a great

         9       obligation to you.  If you do well, what you are

        10       being taught, the skills you are learning turn

        11       out to be one of our greatest weapons, if not

        12       our greatest weapon.

        13                      Senator Larkin referred to your

        14       accepting the challenge, and obviously by

        15       accepting that challenge, it challenges us to

        16       keep the world free so that the ultimate

        17       sacrifice is not called for by any of you

        18       wonderful people, for any American citizen or,

        19       indeed, anybody.  But your skill and your

        20       dedication and your acceptance of that challenge

        21       used properly by the citizens in government,

        22       keep all of us safe, my family, my children, God

        23       willing, some day my grandchildren.











                                                             
3219

         1                      So it is with the deepest respect

         2       and honor that we have you here today and that

         3       you grace our chamber, and I wish the Academy

         4       well, and particularly the people who have

         5       joined us today.  May we all wish you Godspeed.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Sears.

         8                      SENATOR SEARS:  Thank you very

         9       much, Mr. President.

        10                      I rise to also greet the

        11       contingent of cadets and the General up here

        12       today on "West Point Day" and, especially, I

        13       would like to recognize Gregory P. Yatarola from

        14       Dolgeville which is in my Senatorial District in

        15       the 47th Senate District.

        16                      Many, many great men have come

        17       before you, and I'm sure many more will come

        18       after your term in the military.  I was very

        19       fortunate in having served under one of the

        20       great generals of the United States of all time

        21       in my opinion.  I went in with Governor -

        22       General MacArthur at Inchon, and I know of his

        23       capabilities because I was there to serve with











                                                             
3220

         1       him, and maybe I didn't agree with the final

         2       decision on his coming back to the States

         3       because I believed as he did that you were in

         4       the war to win, and that was the only reason you

         5       were there.

         6                      But I certainly want to commend

         7       all of you, General, and all of your cadets and

         8       all of the people that you work with because if

         9       there's one thing that this country needs today

        10       perhaps more than any other time, it's certainly

        11       not down-sizing our military.  We must maintain

        12       a strong military if we're going to be the

        13       leader of the world, and for all the work that

        14       you do along those lines, I commend you and I

        15       welcome you.  Godspeed.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        17       recognizes Senator DiCarlo.

        18                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      As chairman of the Veterans

        21       Committee, I would like to welcome you here

        22       today and say how very proud we are of you.  I

        23       would also like to make a point to you that I'm











                                                             
3221

         1       sure that it's much easier to get into this

         2       body, into the Senate, than it is to get into

         3       the Point.  So, you've all probably excelled and

         4       far surpassed anything that anyone here probably

         5       could have attained, so you should be proud of

         6       that.

         7                      I'd also take this opportunity to

         8       remind everybody in this chamber, we talk about

         9       how proud we are of you now, but I would remind

        10       everybody that we should also remember you as

        11       you're here today when we deal with affairs of

        12       veterans.  You've got many years to serve and

        13       many years before you to get to that point, but

        14       I would remind everybody that we're proud of you

        15       now, but we should also be proud of you when you

        16       are retired and when you are veterans, and we

        17       should always keep that in our minds, and I

        18       assure you that many of us here feel that way,

        19       that in your active life and when you retire and

        20       you're veterans, that we will be here to support

        21       you and congratulations.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Larkin to close on the











                                                             
3222

         1       resolution.

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Sir -- Mr.

         3       President, before I close, I would like to

         4       apologize.  Cadet Eric McAllister from

         5       Cobleskill, please.  Senator Cook will give me

         6       heck.   Thank you very much.

         7                      Mr. President, my colleagues,

         8       again on behalf of all of us, we're honored that

         9       you would be here today.  We wish you Godspeed.

        10       We wish you good luck.  We wish you a career as

        11       you pursue the finishing of your studies at the

        12       Academy and your ensuing five years of commit

        13       ment, and we wish that you, as you enter that

        14       phase, will look at peace, the symbol that

        15       you're working for, because you as strong

        16       leaders will help us preserve peace, not only

        17       for us here in America but for the world.  You

        18       are America's finest and we salute you.

        19                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        22       favor, signify by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)











                                                             
3223

         1                      Opposed?

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The resolution is adopted

         4       unanimously.

         5                      General Graves, on behalf of

         6       Ralph Marino, the President Pro Tem of the

         7       Senate, Senator Larkin and all of the members of

         8       the house, we congratulate you on what you do.

         9       You do it so well.

        10                      And thank you for bringing the

        11       cadets and your faculty members to share just a

        12       bit of yours lives with us.  You can see from

        13       the outpouring of the members that it's -

        14       you're very, very inspirational to us.  Thank

        15       you for sharing the intellect of the Corps, and

        16       certainly their enthusiasm that reassures us for

        17       the brightness of America.

        18                      Thank you for being here.

        19                      (Applause.)

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21                      Senator Present.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        23       would you recognize Senator Libous?











                                                             
3224

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Libous.

         3                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      I have a privileged resolution at

         6       the desk, and I waive its reading and ask that

         7       just its title be read and be adopted, please.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         9       will read the title of the special resolution.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        11       Resolution, by Senators Libous and Cook,

        12       commending Colchester Holdings, Incorporated

        13       upon the occasion of its designation as "New

        14       York State's Small Business of the Year".

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        17       favor signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye".)

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      The resolution is adopted.

        22                      Senator Wright.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
3225

         1       on behalf of Senator Lack, I wish to call up

         2       Bill Print Number 6694, recalled from the

         3       Assembly which is now at the desk.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Lack,

         5       Senate Bill Number 6694, an act to amend the

         6       Penal Law, in relation to conditional

         7       sentencing.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I now move to

         9       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        10       passed.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll on reconsideration.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        14       reconsideration.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is before the house, Senator Wright.

        18                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        19       now offer the following amendments.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       amendments are received and adopted.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Would you











                                                             
3226

         1       recognize Senator Kruger, please?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Kruger.

         4                      SENATOR KRUGER:  Mr. President, I

         5       ask for a privileged resolution to be adopted

         6       unanimously, Number 3488.  I waive its reading.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       resolution is at the desk.  The clerk will read

         9       the title.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        11       Resolution, paying tribute to Sister Jane

        12       Talbot, R.S.M., Adele Millstein, Anthony

        13       Giordano, the late John F. Carroll and the

        14       Bensonhurst Council of Jewish Organizations.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        17       favor, signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye".)

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      The resolution is adopted.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
3227

         1       let's take up the non-controversial calendar,

         2       please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         4       will read the non-controversial calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 27 of

         6       today's calendar, Calendar Number 501, by member

         7       of the Assembly Lentol, Assembly Bill Number

         8       6875-A, Civil Practice Law and Rules and the

         9       General Construction Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        11       section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       640, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

        22       3825-C, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

        23       Law, the Family Court Act and the Penal Law.











                                                             
3228

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

         2       section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       659, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 7410,

        13       authorizing the State University of New York to

        14       lease certain lands.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        16       section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
3229

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       663, by member of the Assembly Pheffer, Assembly

         4       Bill Number 825.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         6       for the day.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside for the day.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       670, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number

        11       6378 -

        12                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Lay it aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       674, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        17       7538, proposing an amendment to the

        18       Constitution, in relation to exchange of certain

        19       forest preserve lands.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        21       section.  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
3230

         1       Gold.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, I asked

         3       Senator Stafford to lay this bill aside

         4       yesterday because we have been told that there

         5       was a group who wanted to file a memo on it.  We

         6       have nothing, and I just wanted to thank Senator

         7       Stafford again for his courtesy.  I vote aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       resolution is adopted.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       685, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

        13       3907-C, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

        14       Law, the Penal Law and the Civil Practice Law

        15       and Rules.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Explain my











                                                             
3231

         1       vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       DeFrancisco to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  On calendar

         5       685.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We're on

         7       Calendar 685, that's correct, Senator.

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  This is a

         9       very extensive bill and it has many, many more

        10       good qualities than bad, but I would just like

        11       to state for the record, there is a bad quality

        12       that I hope gets corrected in the final process

        13       in the negotiations and before it becomes law,

        14       and that concerns the statute of limitations for

        15       civil actions.

        16                      Basically, the language of the

        17       statute of limitations for civil actions is that

        18       you can commence a civil action under this

        19       statute up to three years from the time of

        20       discovery by the injured party of both the

        21       injury and the causal relationship between the

        22       injury and the childhood sexual abuse, whichever

        23       expires later, so it's conceivable that someone











                                                             
3232

         1       who realizes after seeking some treatment or

         2       realizes from whatever method or means when

         3       they're in their advanced age that something may

         4       have happened and they just discovered the

         5       causal relationship and then the three years

         6       begins to run.  I think this is a very bad

         7       section, that it's a section that is not needed,

         8       and it extends the statute of limitations really

         9       to the point of making -- there are no statutes

        10       of limitation in these cases, so I would hope

        11       that that would be corrected and the statute of

        12       limitations with respect to civil actions would

        13       be modified in the negotiation process.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  How do

        15       you vote, Senator DeFrancisco?

        16                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I vote aye.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Gold to explain his vote.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  With my apologies

        21       to everyone, I understand that Senator Galiber

        22       may have had a question on this bill.  I'm

        23       trying to check it out now, and I understand the











                                                             
3233

         1       circumstances -- what?  On the other hand,

         2       what's the vote?  We just took care of the -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         4       the results.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       689, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 5740,

        10       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       690, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number

        23       6541-A, an act to amend the Penal Law and the











                                                             
3234

         1       Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to forgery.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

         3       section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       692, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 7 -

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside,

        15       please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       695, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 7483,

        20       an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and

        21       Rules, in relation to notice to defaulting

        22       party.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last











                                                             
3235

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       697, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

        12       7496, an act to amend the Penal Law and the

        13       Administrative Code of the city of New York.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       699, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 7574,

        19       Crim...

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
3236

         1       706, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

         2       6500 -

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside for the day.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       708, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 7477 -

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside,

         9       please.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  For the day.

        11                      PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the bill

        12       aside for the day.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       711 by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 6784,

        15       authorize the commissioner of General Services

        16       to sell or lease certain land in Queens County.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        18       section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
3237

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       715, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number -

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       717, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5200 -

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       721, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number

        16       73...

        17                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Lay it aside

        18       for the day.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside for the day.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Also Calendar

        22       Number 722.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar











                                                             
3238

         1       Number 722 is laid aside for the day.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       726, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 5135,

         4       an act to amend the Executive Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

         6       section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       727 by -

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       729, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1594,

        22       an act to amend the Banking Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last











                                                             
3239

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Leichter to explain his vote.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I would like

        10       to ask to be excused from voting on this bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        12       objection, so ordered.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Present, that completes

        22       the non-controversial calendar.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
3240

         1       can we take up the controversial calendar?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         3       will read the controversial calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 33,

         5       Calendar Number 670, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate

         6       Bill Number 6378, an act to amend the General

         7       Obligations Law.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       DiCarlo, an explanation has been asked for by

        11       Senator Dollinger.

        12                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      Last year there was a highly

        15       publicized case which saw a convicted mugger

        16       receive a $4.3 million judgment in a civil

        17       action against the Transit Authority in New York

        18       City and a police officer.  It isn't often that

        19       such an outcry is heard about such happenings.

        20                      In the Penal Law there is

        21       something called a justification, and when a

        22       police officer, while doing his duty, causes

        23       injury, justification can be made and criminal











                                                             
3241

         1       liability is put aside.

         2                      This bill basically says that

         3       there is an assumption of risk in a tort action

         4       against the police officer or peace officer

         5       while doing their job.  If they live up to the

         6       three elements that are also found in the Penal

         7       Law, the elements being that the injury occurred

         8       during the course of an arrest or preventing

         9       escape from an arrest, the defendant reasonably

        10       believed the plaintiff committed an offense and

        11       the justification defense would have applied in

        12       a criminal prosecution against the defendant for

        13       the same conduct.

        14                      Now, I might like this bill to

        15       have reversed what happened last year in the

        16       award.  The Court of Appeals has spoken to that,

        17       and this bill honestly probably would not have

        18       changed that verdict, but what this bill says is

        19       if a police officer can show that he was

        20       justified and followed all three elements, then

        21       that that would be an assumption of risk by the

        22       plaintiff in a tort action, and that the

        23       defendant in a tort liability could use that as











                                                             
3242

         1       he would use it in a criminal case.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Gold.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can I just ask

         6       Senator DiCarlo one or two short questions?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       DiCarlo, do you yield?

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       DiCarlo yields.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I'm not

        13       sure if I misunderstood you.  Did you say that

        14       if your bill were the law, it would have or may

        15       not have changed the result in the Court of

        16       Appeals case?

        17                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, it would

        18       still be left up to the jury to decide whether

        19       the defendant in this case, the police or peace

        20       officer was justified under the same guidelines

        21       where we have in the Penal Law, so under the

        22       McCummings case if you read the fact pattern in

        23       the McCummings case, clearly or not so clearly











                                                             
3243

         1       the police officer shot the mugger, did not see

         2       the actual crime take place.  The mugger was

         3       shot down at the bottom of some steps, and this

         4       would be up to the jury to decide whether the

         5       assumption existed or not, so would it have

         6       applied to the McCummings case?  It might have,

         7       it might not have, but that would still be up to

         8       the jury to decide.  This basically just gives

         9       the defense, the police officer, something to

        10       look at and his attorneys to show a jury and

        11       say, "Under criminal law, this is the case.  You

        12       can use this now under a civil tort action."

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  If the Senator

        14       would yield to one more question.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Senator does.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  When I started to

        19       look at your bill and, of course, I know the

        20       case you are talking about, but many of us are

        21       very upset with a -- with an investigation going

        22       on in Staten Island right now, and the mayor of

        23       the city of New York was very clear that no one











                                                             
3244

         1       should pre-judge that situation, and I think

         2       people don't want to, but with the advent of the

         3       Camcorder, we find now that there are more and

         4       more amateur people taking pictures, and we're

         5       finding out some things which maybe we don't

         6       even want to know but, at any rate, your bill

         7       says that the items are (1) the injury sustained

         8       by the plaintiff arose in the course of

         9       attempting to effectuate the arrest, okay, or in

        10       attempting to prevent the escape, that now we

        11       get to the second part.  The defendant

        12       reasonably believed the plaintiff to have

        13       committed an offense.

        14                      Now, that doesn't say, as I read

        15       it, that he had to see that the defendant

        16       committed any offense, that he just had

        17       reasonable cause to believe, which I think is a

        18       basis under the law today for a police officer

        19       making an arrest, isn't that true, sir?

        20                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, that is

        21       correct.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, so that is

        23        -- that is just -- I want to be clear what











                                                             
3245

         1       we're doing.  That merely restates the law.

         2       We're saying, if you got a police officer and

         3       he's trying to make an arrest which that's what

         4       we have them there for, and he's making it

         5       because he has reasonable belief that the

         6       defendant committed an offense, and again, that

         7       is the law.  Then we get "and", and this is

         8       where we are.  "The actions of the defendant --"

         9       meaning the police officer "-- were such that in

        10       any criminal prosecution against that police

        11       officer, the defense of justification would have

        12       applied", am I right?

        13                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Correct.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, what I

        15       don't understand, I think -- I thought and I may

        16       be wrong, that that is basically the law today.

        17                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  That is the law

        18       but that, as the law stands now, only applies in

        19       criminal cases in the Penal Law.  That does not

        20       presently apply in a civil tort action.  We're

        21       basically saying that if this law can be applied

        22       in a criminal case, that it should also be a

        23       defense in a civil case.











                                                             
3246

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  That's what I'm

         2       getting at.

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  So we're taking

         4       the law in the criminal case and we're making it

         5       good in a civil action.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I must

         7       say, so far I'm not offended by your language at

         8       all.  What I'm trying to find out is -- and

         9       perhaps this would make it easier for us.  The

        10       court -- did the Court of Appeals say, Senator

        11       DiCarlo, that if it was a police officer with

        12       reasonable belief and if he used the proper

        13       force and it was all reasonable, et cetera, that

        14       that is not a civil defense today?

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  My under

        16       standing in the Court of Appeals ruling that

        17       this does not apply in a civil action, and that

        18       is from the Court of Appeals decision.  Thus, we

        19       find it necessary to put it on the book so it

        20       can be used as a legitimate defense.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Senator

        22       DiCarlo.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
3247

         1       Dollinger, on the bill.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         3       President, on the bill.

         4                      I think Senator DiCarlo's

         5       observation about whether the defense of

         6       justification would apply in this instance is

         7       correct.  Based on the facts as I know them in

         8       this case -- and I'm going to read just a

         9       summary of those facts so everybody

        10       understands.  I think that the reaction in New

        11       York State has been this has been an outrageous

        12       verdict, but I think when you look at the facts

        13       in a little greater detail, you understand why

        14       the defense of justification, that at least in

        15       my understanding in the trial court was

        16       presented to the jury was nonetheless rejected

        17       by the jury and the court found in favor of the

        18       plaintiff.

        19                      The plaintiff in the civil action

        20       against the Transit Authority, McCummings,

        21       admitted that he was engaged in robbing and

        22       beating a victim but claimed that after being

        23       alerted by his lookout in this robbery, he broke











                                                             
3248

         1       off the assault and fled down the other

         2       staircase in the opposite direction.  He stated

         3       that he was some 17 to 20 feet away from Officer

         4       Rodriguez when he was shot in the back.  The

         5       plaintiff denied that he ever lunged at the

         6       officer.  McCummings denied that the claim made

         7       by Rodriguez, the officer, was that McCummings

         8       had lunged at him while he was trying to

         9       effectuate an escape.  The plaintiff denied

        10       that.

        11                      The plaintiff's medical expert

        12       testified that McCummings' spinal cord was

        13       immediately transected by the bullet, and that

        14       he instantly lost all weight-bearing capability,

        15       and since he was found at the bottom of the

        16       stairs, that's where he was shot.  Now, it's

        17       undisputed that he was shot in the back.  The

        18       defendant, the Transit Authority, offered no

        19       credible medical evidence to the contrary.

        20                      Officer Rodriguez asserted that

        21       despite the plaintiff's wounds, the plaintiff

        22       was able to run down the staircase before

        23       collapsing.  The officer's version is that "He











                                                             
3249

         1       lunged at me, I shot him.  He ran away and fell,

         2       collapsed to the bottom of the stairs."

         3                      On the direct examination of

         4       Officer Rodriguez, the jury heard him testify

         5       about three prior incidents involving the use of

         6       his firearm.  The shootings were found to be

         7       justified by the Transit Authority.  Officer

         8       Rodriguez twice before had shot at fleeing

         9       suspects and missed, the first time firing

        10       twice, the last time he emptied his entire

        11       revolver.  On another occasion, Officer

        12       Rodriguez had shot and killed this stray dog

        13       which apparently was rummaging through a garbage

        14       can on the Transit Authority property.

        15                      The defense of justification was

        16       presented to the jury.  The jury rejected it and

        17       bought the version of the plaintiff who had been

        18       incarcerated for three years as a result of

        19       having been convicted of the robbery and found

        20       that excessive force had been used against him,

        21       and consequently the Transit Authority was

        22       responsible for $2.5 million in damages.

        23                      From my point of view, the facts











                                                             
3250

         1       of this case are such that even had the law that

         2       we're about to pass been in effect, if the jury

         3       had believed that the victim was 17 to 20 feet

         4       away from the officer and running away when the

         5       officer shot him in the back, this law would not

         6       change that conclusion.  It wouldn't change

         7       McCummings.

         8                      So, as I see Senator DiCarlo's

         9       proposal, it would enshrine the justification of

        10       defense into law, but it wouldn't go quite far

        11       enough to accomplish the goal of providing

        12       victim -- the victim with some possibility of

        13       relief because I think the key thing here is

        14       that while McCummings is awarded $2.5 million in

        15       damages from the Transit Authority for the

        16       injuries he sustained because the officer used

        17       executive force, the person who was involved in

        18       the original mugging, Sandusky who's on the

        19       floor having been beaten up and robbed, he

        20       doesn't have the ability to get access to those

        21       funds to what some people interrupt as a

        22       windfall, other people would interpret as

        23       compensation for damages.











                                                             
3251

         1                      That's why, Mr. President, I have

         2       at the table an amendment to this bill, an

         3       amendment which would do two things if -

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay, I'll

         6       pause for a second.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Dollinger wishes to offer up an amendment?

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, I

        10       believe there's an amendment at the desk.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Do you

        12       have two, I understand?  Could you tell the desk

        13       which one you wish to take up first?

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, in the

        15       interest of time -- if I can pause one moment,

        16       Mr. President?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Certainly.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Number 2.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We're

        21       going to proceed with amendment number 2?

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All











                                                             
3252

         1       right.  There's an amendment at the desk.  The

         2       clerk will read -- you're going to waive the

         3       reading?

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Waive the

         5       reading of the amendment, Mr. President.  I'll

         6       explain the amendment briefly.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Fine.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This is an

         9       idea -- this amendment incorporates two items.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Present.  Excuse me, Senator Dollinger.

        12                      Senator Present -

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  -- why do

        15       you rise?

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  We have

        17       reviewed Senator Dollinger's proposed

        18       amendment.  I would like to make a point of

        19       order.  Senator Dollinger's amendment to Senator

        20       DiCarlo's bill is out of order since it violates

        21       Rule VI, Section 4(b) in that it is not germane

        22       to the original object or purpose of Senator

        23       DiCarlo's bill.  Senator Dollinger's amendment











                                                             
3253

         1       consists of proposed changes to provisions of

         2       the Executive Law which are not consistent or

         3       germane with Senator DiCarlo's bill.

         4                      Therefore, I'd ask that you rule

         5       Senator Dollinger's proposed amendment being out

         6       of order.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Dollinger, I have -- knowing that your amend

         9       ments were being prepared and were going to be

        10       offered up -- reviewed it.  I'm aware of Senator

        11       Present's objection.  Having reviewed the rules

        12       of this chamber would suggest that Senator

        13       Present's objection is well taken and would rule

        14       your amendment not germane and out of order.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr. Presi

        16       dent, can I appeal the ruling of the Chair and

        17       be heard on the issue?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That you

        19       can.

        20                      Senator Dollinger, on the appeal

        21       of the ruling of the Chair.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The amendment

        23       that's before the house currently does, in my











                                                             
3254

         1       judgment, the one thing that Senator DiCarlo's

         2       bill -- and I am prepared to vote in favor of

         3       that bill -- in enshrining into the statutory

         4       law of this state, a principle that says munici

         5       palities can be insulated from liability, civil

         6       liability, in instances in which the justi

         7       fication of defense is proven to the

         8       satisfaction of the jury.  That would immunize

         9       the municipalities, the agencies and authorities

        10       that are acting in the function of the police

        11       power, would immunize them from tort liability.

        12                      But it seems to me that the other

        13       step that Senator DiCarlo's bill doesn't take is

        14       a step that's been advocated by Senator Jones in

        15       Monroe County, by many of us for crime victims,

        16       and that's to do two things.  One is to open up

        17       the door and expand the definition of the

        18       profits of a crime in the Son of Sam Law, which

        19       is Senator Jones' bill, to include compensation,

        20       compensatory damages or punitive damages that

        21       are obtained by a perpetrator of a crime during

        22       the course of a crime or an attempted escape.

        23       That would expand the definition of profits of a











                                                             
3255

         1       crime to include another category which would be

         2       available for the crime victim to recover

         3       against.

         4                      The other thing that this

         5       amendment does which is again, I think, germane

         6       to the issue of crime victims and what tort

         7       liability flows from crime victims either

         8       immunizing municipalities or extending tort

         9       liability so that there would be available funds

        10       for the victim of the crime, Mr. Sandusky, the

        11       man who's left on the floor, who's been robbed

        12       and beaten in this case, would be to extend the

        13       statute of limitations, and it relates directly

        14       to the McCummings issue because under

        15       McCummings, it appears as though Mr. Sandusky,

        16       who now may have the ability to have a claim

        17       against Mr. Cummings because he's now received a

        18       substantial amount of money for his compensatory

        19       damages, the statute of limitations may have

        20       expired and cut off his ability to recover.

        21                      So, what the amendment does in

        22       respect to the statute of limitations is it

        23       extends it three years, not only from the period











                                                             
3256

         1       of time that the funds are supposedly available,

         2       which is the current ruling under the Son of Sam

         3       Law, but extends it three years from the time

         4       that either a judgment is entered in favor of

         5       the perpetrator of the crime or three years

         6       after a final appealable order -- non-appealable

         7       order is issued by a court on appeal.

         8                      We would extend the statute of

         9       limitations so we don't put Mr. Sandusky in a

        10       position where he's got to make that judgment

        11       immediately upon when the funds are, quote,

        12       "available".  It would extend the period of

        13       time.  It would open up the possibility for

        14       victims of crimes to be able to recover when

        15       their perpetrators have recovered tort damages.

        16                      I look at this as an outgrowth of

        17       the exact same issues present in the McCummings

        18       case.  It's something that I know Senator Jones

        19       and others have worked on.  It's an issue that I

        20       think is ripe for a complete resolution, not a

        21       partial resolution by simply immunizing the

        22       municipalities, but by making available to crime

        23       victims in what I believe is a germane approach











                                                             
3257

         1       to the whole issue, the series of issues raised

         2       in the McCummings case is to make greater

         3       opportunities available for crime victims, the

         4       people who are injured by the perpetrator to be

         5       able to recover damages.

         6                      So, I'm disappointed that the

         7       majority doesn't see the linkage in what I

         8       believe is the -- not only the relevancy but the

         9       direct germaneness of providing crime victims

        10       with recovery while we're immunizing munici

        11       palities from tort liability, so I dispute the

        12       determination that it's germane.

        13                      I would ask my colleagues to vote

        14       in favor of overturning the ruling of the Chair

        15       on the issue with respect to germaneness.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter, you have a question on the -

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, yeah, Mr.

        19       President.  On the issue of your ruling, and

        20       what I really want to do is to try to clarify it

        21       in my own mind, get an understanding.  I would

        22       like to ask Senator DiCarlo if he would be so

        23       good as to yield, and I want to preface it by











                                                             
3258

         1       saying that I have very fond memories, Senator,

         2       of debating your father and, as you know, people

         3       who served here with him.  He was one of the

         4       most able debaters that this Legislature has

         5       seen, at least in modern times.  It was a great

         6       pleasure to serve with him.  The other thing I

         7       remember was his openmindedness and his

         8       fairness.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  You didn't know

        10       him.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And I know the

        12        -- I know the fruit never falls far from the

        13       tree, so we'll expect that same sort of approach

        14       from you but, Senator, if you would be so kind

        15       as to yield to a question.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       DiCarlo, do you yield to Senator Leichter?  The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah, I

        20       supported your bill in committee, but it does

        21       seem to me that the good Senator from Monroe

        22       County, Senator Dollinger, really raised a very

        23       good point and one that I think would make your











                                                             
3259

         1       bill an even better bill, which is that in those

         2       instances where the jury should reject the

         3       defense of justification, and we find that

         4       someone who had broken the law nevertheless now

         5       finds himself the beneficiary, if you will, of a

         6       jury's largesse, why shouldn't the crime victim

         7       at least have an opportunity to share in that?

         8       The example in this case is that Mr. Sandusky,

         9       the victim who was left bleeding on the subway

        10       platform, shouldn't he now recover from Mr.

        11       Cummings?

        12                      I guess we can't make this

        13       retroactive, but if such a situation arises in

        14       the future, my question to you is, why not

        15       accept the amendment and amend your bill, bring

        16       it back in three, four days, have it pass

        17       unanimously.  It will be a better bill, and

        18       that's really my question to you.  We can forget

        19       all of the parliamentary debates, and so on.

        20                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Senator -- Mr.

        21       President.  First let me thank you for the kind

        22       words about my father.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And you.











                                                             
3260

         1                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you.  And

         2       let me just assure you that I am no match for my

         3       father in debating skills as will probably be

         4       seen during the course of the session.

         5                      I happen to -- I'm pleased that

         6       you support my legislation, and I like the bill

         7       as it is presently.  I think it's such an

         8       important issue that we pass this in both houses

         9       right now and it becomes law, that I think that

        10       the form that my bill is in is the way I want to

        11       see it go through.

        12                      I listened to Senator Dollinger

        13       and I can understand his position, and his

        14       position seems to make sense but not as pertains

        15       to my legislation.  I would be very happy to

        16       look at Senator Dollinger's bill or Senator

        17       Jones' bill as pertains to this, and I could see

        18       myself being supportive of such legislation, but

        19       for today, and for my legislation and for what I

        20       want my legislation to do, I think that the

        21       Senator's amendment doesn't fit what I'm looking

        22       to do at this point, but again, it has merit, as

        23       far as I'm concerned, as a bill and I would look











                                                             
3261

         1       at it.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well -- Mr. -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Leichter, are you asking Senator DiCarlo to

         5       continue to yield?

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, I -

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Leichter, on the bill.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I just wanted

        10        -- I think on the ruling.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  On the

        12       ruling, right.  It's hard to tell from your

        13       question, Senator, but continue, please.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      I'm disappointed that, you know,

        17       once again we find, even by a new member and one

        18       with such an illustrious name, this same ap

        19       proach that anything that the Majority brings to

        20       the floor is so perfect, it cannot be improved

        21       upon, and as we saw yesterday, even when it

        22       appears not to be perfect, it never needs to be

        23       justified.  I think that's unfortunate, but I











                                                             
3262

         1       have difficulty in understanding your ruling,

         2       Mr. President, and I know how fair and

         3       openminded you are, sir, and -- but why can we

         4       not -- taking a bill that addresses itself to

         5       the issue of municipal liability where an

         6       officer of that municipality takes an action

         7       which that officer may consider justified, or

         8       the issue is presented to the jury, why can we

         9       not also deal with the -- one of the

        10       consequences of where the jury finds the justi

        11       fication doesn't exist?  We got a crime victim,

        12       a crime victim that should be compensated.  Why

        13       rely on the super technicality, which I don't

        14       think is correctly applied in this instance?  I

        15       have difficulty in understanding why the

        16       Majority would try to keep this bill or this

        17       amendment from coming up.

        18                      Mr. President, I suggest to you

        19       that if you take a look at the purpose of the

        20       amendment, it certainly fits into the purpose of

        21       the bill to the overall structure of the bill

        22       and should be -- should be properly before us.

        23       As I -- as I further said, it should be accepted











                                                             
3263

         1       by the Majority but certainly to keep us from

         2       even considering it on, I think, a misplaced

         3       techni- cality, I think is unfortunate.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Jones.

         6                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes, I would like

         7       to speak on the ruling.  I guess -- I certainly

         8       understand that perhaps mace and assault rifles

         9       are stretching it a bit, but I guess I'm really

        10       confused as to why these do not relate.

        11                      I'm very, you know, supportive of

        12       Senator DiCarlo's bill.  I myself am not a

        13       lawyer so I really did not approach the same

        14       situation, although I was greatly outraged as

        15       you were.  I definitely looked just at the

        16       victim and the victim's rights, and the victim

        17       basically ending up with no rights in this

        18       outrageous settlement that left the victim as

        19       Senator Dollinger described him.

        20                      I did submit a bill that would

        21       help the victim gain something, add a clause to

        22       the Son of Sam Law that would have helped the

        23       victim recover perhaps some of these damages.











                                                             
3264

         1                      I did hear Senator DiCarlo, I

         2       believe, say that he's not sure that his bill

         3       would enable the jury to decide against the

         4       person, actually the criminal in this case, so I

         5       guess I think what Senator Dollinger is

         6       proposing to amend this -- I certainly feel it's

         7       germane.  We're all talking about the same issue

         8       here and I think if we combine these two, and

         9       I'm pleased to hear Senator DiCarlo say that he

        10       is willing to look at them, but I think we have

        11       them here now and I think it makes sense that it

        12       is germane, and we should be dealing with it as

        13       a package that will perhaps help both the victim

        14       and solve all of the problems that we're trying

        15       to address here.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold, on the appeal of the ruling of the Chair.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, the

        19       subject very dear and near my heart since I

        20       offered the original Son of Sam Law and carried

        21       the amendment that we passed to redo the law

        22       just a couple of years ago, and I would like to

        23       remind the members, particularly on the other











                                                             
3265

         1       side of the aisle, that when we put in our new

         2       Son of Sam Law, which was done the same way I

         3       did the first one, with bipartisan sponsorship

         4       in this house, we had a larger statute of

         5       limitations than the final bill.  It was the

         6       Assembly that whittled it down.  As a matter of

         7       fact, the individual responsible for that was

         8       nominated for a judgeship and I was one of the

         9       few people that voted no, I was so incensed, but

        10       the point is we wanted to go a longer way, "we"

        11       meaning the Senate, to make sure that a victim

        12       was taken care of before a criminal.

        13                      Now, with the Governor's help, we

        14       wound up with a law, the new Son of Sam Law,

        15       which I think is still a great model for the

        16       nation, but there are many of us, including

        17       Senator Jones and Senator Dollinger and people

        18       on your side of the aisle, who want to, on a

        19       continuing basis, make sure as we find out about

        20       loopholes that we cut into those loopholes.

        21                      Now, I can tell you, I know

        22       something about the McCummings case, and I do

        23       know that Mr. Sandusky has filed a suit.  I'm











                                                             
3266

         1       not sure exactly where that is, but under one of

         2       the provisions of Son of Sam, he may be able to

         3       get in because the statute hasn't run, but the

         4       Jones proposal and the Dollinger proposals are

         5       just good proposals, that in the normal course

         6       of business in the New York State Senate, should

         7       be grabbed up.

         8                      Now, we really ought to cut it

         9       out.  I will pay for the phone call, if each

        10       member of the Republican Party in this house

        11       wants to call your colleagues in Washington and

        12       find out whether or not Republican Congressmen

        13       are allowed to offer amendments, and whether or

        14       not they don't, in fact, do amendments and

        15       whatever.  This business just really has to

        16       stop.

        17                      Senator DiCarlo, I read your bill

        18       and I don't have any problems.  I think you're

        19       doing a good thing.  I think that the way you've

        20       structured it, officers who violate the law,

        21       such as happened in California and may have

        22       happened in Staten Island, I don't know, will

        23       certainly be held accountable and your law won't











                                                             
3267

         1       touch that and I'm glad of that and I can

         2       support it but, Senator DiCarlo, you have a

         3       chance today to take a giant step.  If this

         4       amendment prevails, the way I understand it,

         5       this bill will come back as 6378-A, introduced

         6       by Senator DiCarlo.  Nobody's taking away your

         7       name off that bill as the major sponsor.

         8       Senator Skelos and Bruno will still be -- have

         9       their names on this bill, except that now you

        10       can say we not only took care of the situation

        11       with the police officer but we made sure that

        12       the Son of Sam provisions are expanded or

        13       clarified to help crime victims.

        14                      I know you don't take advice from

        15       me, but if I were Senator DiCarlo, it's a win

        16       win situation.  When the Governor signs it into

        17       law, the pen certificate will say "Senator

        18       DiCarlo".  It will hang in your office, not

        19       mine, but we can do it better, and we really are

        20       making such an error.  I mean, there are a lot

        21       of votes that happen around here that people

        22       suggest are political and yesterday's absurd

        23       bill to try to make it look like some people











                                                             
3268

         1       aren't ready to clamp down on welfare cheats.

         2       That's so silly.

         3                      But, Senator DiCarlo, I mean, are

         4       we now supposed to run around and say, "My God,

         5       Republicans don't even care about crime

         6       victims."  Here's an opportunity to make sure

         7       that this money stayed away from crime victims

         8       and they wouldn't let it come at -- I mean, we

         9       ought to -- we really ought to stop this

        10       business.

        11                      I think, Senator DiCarlo, that

        12       Senator Dollinger and Senator Jones have really

        13       given you an opportunity and you ought to grab

        14       it.  When the bill comes out and we pass it and

        15       it becomes a law, your newsletter will tell your

        16       constituents that that pen certificate is not

        17       only going to protect police officers where they

        18       should be protected but helps crime victims.

        19       What can be better than that?  I think you

        20       gentlemen and lady are making a big mistake.  I

        21       hope you would see the logic to this and vote

        22       against the ruling of the Chair.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
3269

         1       DiCarlo.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

         3       just in brief to answer somebody who I respect

         4       very much, Senator Gold.  I find it -- I agree

         5       with the ruling of the Chair, that this is not

         6       germane, but what I find most disturbing is an

         7       accusation which I find very disingenuous about

         8       not speaking to colleagues.  I heard a debate

         9       here yesterday where the opposition on the other

        10       side was arguing against one of my colleagues

        11       and saying how they were appalled by the fact

        12       that they had -- didn't get answers to a bill

        13       that was being voted on here, and there was

        14       waving of arms and there was loud voices being

        15       heard in this chamber.

        16                      I find it disingenuous now that

        17       people come to me and say, "Well, we have a

        18       great amendment and we would like you to tack it

        19       on to your bill", when I never saw the

        20       amendment.  Not only have I never seen the

        21       amendment, but I never got a call from the

        22       Senators on the other side of the aisle saying

        23       they have a great idea.  Never asked me about it











                                                             
3270

         1       and now they come before this body and they say

         2       that we're doing something that we should not be

         3       doing, I find it to be, again disingenuous, and,

         4       you know, I am always there for a phone call

         5       from a colleague, but the Senators who spoke on

         6       their amendment never bothered to call me, never

         7       bothered to show me an amendment, and if they're

         8       going to complain about not getting information

         9       and they're being asked to vote on a bill

        10       yesterday, I find it interesting they can come

        11       here today asking me to support an amendment

        12       that I've never even seen or received a phone

        13       call on.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would the Senator

        15       yield to just one question?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold is asking Senator DiCarlo to yield.

        18       Senator DiCarlo, would you yield?

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator DiCarlo,

        20       I'm told that the amendment was actually -- in

        21       order to make an amendment, you know, it must be

        22       served.  I'm told that it was served upon your

        23       office yesterday.  Certainly the language is











                                                             
3271

         1       only about six lines.  Is that true or not?

         2       Just so that I know.  I didn't do the serving.

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I never saw it

         4       and, as a matter of fact, this bill came before

         5       the Senate yesterday, and at that point I was

         6       told while the bill was being ready to be

         7       debated, that an amendment was put up to the

         8       desk, so I never saw it before the time of the

         9       debate and I have yet to see it.  No, nothing

        10       has been served on my office and I never

        11       received anything.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, if the

        13       Senator would yield.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       DiCarlo?  The Senator continues to yield,

        17       Senator Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, while I

        19       might have some sympathy with what you said, I

        20       mean, if the amendment was filed yesterday, you

        21       knew there was an amendment.  It's a short one.

        22       This isn't a 40-page, 80-page, 200-page budget

        23       bill.  I mean, it certainly is something that











                                                             
3272

         1       you were aware of in that sense but, Senator,

         2       perhaps -- let me put it to you this way.  This

         3       bill will not become a law in the next four

         4       minutes.  Maybe what we should do -- and I'm not

         5       making the motion, Senator.  Maybe there is some

         6       legitimacy to what you said, I don't know.

         7       Maybe we should put the bill aside, and I'll buy

         8       coffee for you and Senator Dollinger and Senator

         9       Jones, and we'll take a look and see whether or

        10       not, in fact, you can be the lead sponsor of

        11       this bill in a better condition.  If you haven't

        12       had the chance to see it and if that is so, then

        13       I think that's something that can be

        14       accommodated.  We are not going out of session

        15       tonight for the year, and we have time to do it

        16       right.

        17                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       DiCarlo.

        20                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I've stated

        21       before and I'll say it again, I happen to

        22       believe that my bill is in the form that it

        23       should be, and this is the bill that I want to











                                                             
3273

         1       see passed.  I agree with the Chair on his

         2       ruling on it being germane.

         3                      My point that I raised earlier

         4       was that, again, I found it interesting after

         5       what went on here yesterday with Senator

         6       Nozzolio's bill, with the outrage that was heard

         7       in this chamber where some people on that side

         8       said they didn't get some answers to questions,

         9       and how could they vote on a bill, but with my

        10       legislation and my bill, for it to have happened

        11       the way it happened and say that I'm not willing

        12       to look at something that might be better for my

        13       bill, I think is just an outright lie.

        14                      Now, I never saw the amendment.

        15       I've read it since.  I still believe that it's

        16       not germane to my bill, and I would prefer to

        17       pass my bill, but when people on the other side

        18       of the aisle start talking about how we're not

        19       being fair, I find it a little bit outrageous,

        20       because I did not get prior warning or a chance

        21       to see this -- this amendment before my bill

        22       came forward, and that's the only thing I'm

        23       saying.  I don't want -- and I've said it











                                                             
3274

         1       before, my bill is the way I want it to be.  I

         2       agree with the ruling of the Chair, but I just

         3       find it strange how one thing is outrageous, and

         4       then when it's done on the other side of the

         5       aisle, that's fine.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Dollinger.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         9       President, I want to reiterate that I do think

        10       this is germane, and I appreciate Senator

        11       DiCarlo's comments but, quite frankly, one of my

        12       great frustrations about working in this chamber

        13       is that we have rules and regulations that are

        14       made by the Chair.  They're promulgated by the

        15       35, 36 members -- 35 members sitting on the

        16       other side of the table.  There's nothing in the

        17       rules that require that I serve those on you,

        18       nothing.  I'm playing by the rules.  I don't

        19       control the calendar.  I don't decide when this

        20       bill comes up.  You do that.  I play by the

        21       rules that you've set.  I haven't violated any

        22       rules, and I apologize if I offended you from a

        23       courtesy point of view.  I apologize for that.











                                                             
3275

         1                      I have submitted amendments on

         2       bills when I was the ranking member of Senator

         3       Wright's committee, when I was the ranking

         4       member of Senator Libous' committee.  I've

         5       submitted amendments to committee.  I haven't

         6       seen those amendments come up.  I haven't seen

         7       those bills come up.  But there's nothing in the

         8       rules that you set that require that I do that.

         9       If you want to change the rules that require

        10       that I have to give you notice and serve them on

        11       you, I will do that, Senator, but I think it's a

        12       little bit disturbing to me to say, "Gee,

        13       Senator Dollinger, you didn't play by the rules

        14       when you submitted this amendment", when to the

        15       best I can tell, I did, I certainly tried to.

        16                      I apologize, Senator.  In the

        17       future when I propose an amendment -- and I'm

        18       going to propose lots of amendments because I

        19       think there are lots of things we can do better

        20       in this chamber, when I propose that amendment,

        21       I will take it upon myself, although not

        22       required as I understand it by the rules of this

        23       chamber, I will attempt to serve it on the











                                                             
3276

         1       member and the sponsor of the bill.

         2                      One thing I do know -- and this I

         3       agree with Senator Gold on.  I know I'll never

         4       have to serve anybody on this side of the

         5       chamber, because the unwritten rule in this

         6       chamber is that no matter what comes from this

         7       side of the chamber, no matter how we try to

         8       attend to the problem, not only in munici

         9       palities but the Sanduskys who are left on the

        10       floor, who are the victims of crime, obviously

        11       that part of the chamber says "We're going to

        12       deal with just the municipalities.  We'll leave

        13       Sandusky to a later day", but Senator Gold

        14       points out one very good thing.  He may not have

        15       a later day because his lawsuit may be dismissed

        16       by failure to comply with the statute of

        17       limitations, and if you think there was an

        18       outcry when the McCummings case came down

        19       because there was a huge judgment rendered

        20       against a municipality, think of the outcry when

        21       he, Sandusky is thrown out of the court because

        22       of a technicality called the statute of

        23       limitations and the Senate wouldn't pass the











                                                             
3277

         1       bill because it was sponsored by Mary Ellen

         2       Jones.  Explain that to your constituents in

         3       your newsletter.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Waldon.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      I didn't intend to speak on this

         9       at all, but Senator Dollinger has inspired me to

        10       take a little different tact, simply because

        11       there are people represented on this side of the

        12       aisle who are covered under the Voting Rights

        13       Act of the federal government and who, because

        14       we are not allowed to submit legislation to

        15       protect the interests of our people as just

        16       spoken to with McCummings, we are, in fact,

        17       disenfranchised and, therefore, I as an African

        18       American Senator, cannot come here and really

        19       facilitate the interest of African-Americans,

        20       Puerto Rican-Americans and other minority people

        21       in our districts because the actions of the

        22       other side have, in effect, disenfranchised us

        23       in making the case and the argument and being











                                                             
3278

         1       advocates for our people.

         2                      I think this is dangerous

         3       ground.  It is quicksand.  I think that the

         4       disparity practiced by the other side of the

         5       aisle is in violation of the Voting Rights Act

         6       of this country.  I think you ought to think

         7       about that.  I think you really ought to give

         8       some attention to that, that you have, in

         9       effect, by posturing in the manner that you

        10       have, by not allowing legislation to protect the

        11       interests of the African-American,

        12       Caribbean-American, Puerto Rican community,

        13       other Latinos in this state, to bring forth

        14       legislation from this side of the aisle have, in

        15       effect, disenfranchised all of these people, and

        16       this house may every day operate in violation of

        17       the Voting Rights Act of this country.

        18                      Think about it, because others on

        19       this side of the aisle are thinking about it,

        20       and I think that maybe the public should know

        21       about it.  I think that editors represented here

        22       in the newspapers should know about it.  I think

        23       there should be some serious thought to what you











                                                             
3279

         1       are really doing with the manner in which this

         2       house operates, and maybe we ought to focus on

         3       that and clean it up ourselves before somebody

         4       decides to clean it up outside of this house.

         5                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       question is on the appeal of the ruling of the

         8       Chair.  An "aye" vote will be to sustain the

         9       ruling of the Chair; a "nay" vote will be to

        10       overturn the ruling of the Chair.

        11                      On the question, all those in

        12       favor, signify by saying aye.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Party vote in the

        14       negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

        16       will record the party line vote.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33, nays 20.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       ruling of the Chair is sustained.  On the bill.

        21       Last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the first day of











                                                             
3280

         1       November next succeeding the date on which it

         2       shall have become a law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       692, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number

        11       7444, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

        12       Law, in relation to the family of a deceased

        13       crime victim.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Just one half

        15       second.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        17       recognizes Senator Jones.

        18                      SENATOR JONES:  Thank you.  Yes.

        19       I would like to speak to the bill that Senator

        20       Maltese has here today.

        21                      First of all, I would like to

        22       thank him for taking up the Monroe County

        23       issue.  As I'm sure the Senator knows, I'm very











                                                             
3281

         1       pleased that the bill is going to pass and to

         2       help the victim in Monroe County which the bill

         3       was written for and which I submitted on

         4       February 28th.

         5                      I just -- you know, I'm very

         6       happy the bill passes and I support Senator

         7       Maltese, and I probably would have not made the

         8       next statement I'm going to make had this last

         9       debate not taken place, but I would just like to

        10       make it very clear that in my situation, the

        11       phone calls did take place, discussion was

        12       attempted to be held and my efforts were not

        13       accepted or recognized, so I do need to add

        14       that, but I want to thank the Senator because it

        15       was a situation where a victim in Monroe County

        16       was denied the right.  No one could speak to the

        17       victim because it did not fit under the short

        18       categories of the law that were there at the

        19       time, so I'm glad it's going to be corrected,

        20       but I do need to make the statement that I did

        21       make the phone calls, and my bill or whatever

        22       was not accepted, even though I'm reading the

        23       same thing here today.











                                                             
3282

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         2       will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       697, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

        13       7496, an act to amend the Penal Law and the

        14       Administrative Code of the city of New York.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       Explanation has been asked for.  Senator

        18       Padavan, explanation has been asked for by

        19       Senator Gold.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        21       this bill would include retired correction

        22       officers within the existing provision exempting

        23       police officers from the payment of firearms











                                                             
3283

         1       licensing fees.

         2                      This bill passed last year,

         3       unfortunately, was vetoed by the Governor.  In

         4       the veto message, just to share that with

         5       everyone, because I'm sure if I don't, someone

         6       else will.  The Governor indicated cost to New

         7       York City localities, and that if we did this

         8       bill, it might prompt others to request similar

         9       consideration for other groups of individuals.

        10       Certainly that's not my intention, but as far as

        11       cost is concerned, the number of officers that

        12       would be affected here is so minimal that I

        13       couldn't quite understand the Governor having

        14       mentioned that, but those were his two reasons

        15       for vetoing it last year.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President, I just want to point out that the

        20       Republican mayor of the city of New York that

        21       has a memo in opposition to this bill indicates

        22       that there are approximately 550 correction

        23       officers who would be involved and his











                                                             
3284

         1       opposition is on budgetary grounds.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        10       the results.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51, nays 2,

        12       Senators Galiber and Leichter recorded in the

        13       negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       699, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 7574,

        18       Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to

        19       corrective remedies.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        21       section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
3285

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Excuse me, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Gold.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, I'm aware of

         8       the circumstances of the sponsorship of the

         9       bill, and I know everybody wishes Senator Volker

        10       well, and we passed a number of his bills today,

        11       but if I could just have one day on this.

        12                      Senator Maltese, I know you're

        13       ready to stand up on it, but maybe we could just

        14       put it over, and if we can cure our problems, we

        15       won't have to debate it, okay?

        16                      SENATOR MALTESE:  On behalf of

        17       Senator Volker, lay it aside for one day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is laid aside for the day.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       715, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1093,

        22       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        23       Law, in relation to reporting the costs -











                                                             
3286

         1       inactive hazardous waste sites.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         4       for the day.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is laid aside for the day.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       717, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5200-C,

         9       Environmental Conservation Law.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       727, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 66...

        23       6627, Administrative Code of city of New York,











                                                             
3287

         1       in relation to access to correct housing

         2       maintenance code violation.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside.

         6                      Senator Present, that completes

         7       the controversial calendar for the day.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         9       would you recognize Senator Wright, please.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        13       have a privileged resolution at the desk.  I

        14       request the clerk read the title.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The clerk

        16       will read the title of the privileged reso

        17       lution.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        19       Resolution, by Senator Wright, expressing

        20       sincerest sorrow upon the occasion of the death

        21       of John L. MacFarland.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All those

        23       in favor of the resolution signify by saying











                                                             
3288

         1       aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye".)

         3                      Opposed nay.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      The resolution is adopted

         6       unanimously.

         7                      Senator Galiber.

         8                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Would you open

         9       up for -

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Present, should we put all members of the

        15       Legislature on that resolution -

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  -- except

        18        -- those people who do not wish to be, if they

        19       would indicate to the desk accordingly, that

        20       will be done.

        21                      We have a motion, Senator

        22       Present.  If that's okay, we'll do it at this

        23       time.











                                                             
3289

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Sure.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Wright.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  On behalf of

         5       Senator Lack, Mr. President, on page 22, I offer

         6       the following amendments to Calendar Number 346,

         7       Senate Print Number 660, and ask that said bill

         8       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is amended and will retain its place on the

        11       Third Reading Calendar.

        12                      Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        14       there being no further business, I move that we

        15       adjourn until Monday, May 9th at 1:00 p.m.,

        16       intervening days to be legislative days.  The

        17       members should also be advised that they are

        18       subject to the call of the Majority Leader for a

        19       session upon giving 24 hours notice.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Sen

        21       ate stands adjourned until Monday at 1:00 p.m.

        22                      (Whereupon, at 1:31 p.m., the

        23       Senate adjourned.)