Regular Session - June 1, 1994
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 1, 1994
11 3:09 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the staff to
4 take their places, members find their seats.
5 Ask you all in the gallery to stand and join
6 with us as we say our Pledge of Allegiance to
7 the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
10 We're very fortunate today to be
11 joined by two members of the clergy, first Rabbi
12 Aldredo Winter, who is coming from Senator
13 Oppenheimer's district, and ask him to deliver
14 the first prayer.
15 RABBI WINTER: Please rise.
16 On Lord, our God, Creator and
17 Judge of all form of humankind, we come with
18 prayers for the well-being of the distinguished
19 Senators assembled in this august chamber for
20 deliberations pertaining to the welfare of the
21 Empire State.
22 As Thou God to Whom alone belong
23 the dominion and the power always inspire and
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1 support these honorable public servants in the
2 fulfillment of the trust to ensure the
3 implementation of the letter and spirit of the
4 law for all the inhabitants of our state.
5 In profound humility, O God, we
6 pray that Thy blessing may rest upon all those
7 involved in local and state and federal
8 government which we the people have set in
9 authority upon everyone and everything dear and
10 precious to them and us.
11 As we thank Thee for the
12 privilege of living in our glorious land of
13 America, fountainhead of liberty and example of
14 democracy to the nations of the world, we pray
15 may we always bring Thy spirit into our homes or
16 places of work, in our courts of law,
17 understanding that as we live lives of peace and
18 brotherhood, as we judge inequity and
19 truthfulness, we establish Thy reign upon
20 earth.
21 Also, may we all be worthy to
22 continue the noble heritage of the founders of
23 our nation, preserving the legacy of justice for
4112
1 our fellow human beings, tampered by mercy and
2 guided by regard for the rights of all our
3 citizens.
4 Lastly, strengthen us, we pray,
5 together with lovers of freedom everywhere to
6 contribute our share in hastening the arrival of
7 that long awaited era when justice will flow
8 like a mighty stream and universal peace shall
9 be the everlasting inheritance of all Thy
10 children. Amen.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
12 you, Rabbi Winter.
13 We're also pleased to be joined
14 by us today -- joining with us today is the
15 Chaplain Egert from the 10th Mountain Division.
16 Chaplain Egert.
17 CHAPLAIN EGERT: Would you also
18 join me in prayer today.
19 Eternal God, You Who count the
20 nations and weigh them in the balance, Who put
21 down the mighty and exalt the meek of spirit,
22 bless our nation and look with favor upon the
23 people Whom You've established.
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1 It humbles us to roles that we
2 too shall be brought to judgment that where much
3 is given, much shall be required. Your
4 providence knows no favorites. Nothing can
5 bring Your justice. No prestige nor power can
6 save those who deny your purpose or refuse your
7 will.
8 Help us to know the power of the
9 lives this day commemorates. May our minds be
10 open to their sacred memory. Grant that we also
11 may have the grace to deny ourselves for the
12 common good. And as You have given, give to us
13 clear vision and unfailing courage in our hour
14 of testing.
15 Bless the men and women who serve
16 today in our armed forces. Keep them strong and
17 steadfast, inspired with devotion to the cause
18 in which they serve. Grant that we may
19 reverently use our freedom in the maintenance of
20 justice among men and nations, to the glory of
21 Your holy name, we pray. Amen.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
23 you, Chaplain Egert.
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1 Reading of the Journal.
2 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
3 Tuesday, May 31st. The Senate met pursuant to
4 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon
5 designation of the Temporary President. The
6 Journal of Monday, May 30th, was read and
7 approved. On motion, the Senate adjourned.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
9 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
10 read.
11 We'll move directly to reports of
12 standing committees.
13 Senator Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we return
15 to reports of standing committees?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
17 will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
19 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
20 following bills directly for third reading:
21 Senate Bill Number 8539, by the
22 Committee on Rules, an act to provide for
23 payments for vendors under the Women, Infants
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1 and Children's program and making an
2 appropriation therefor.
3 Senate Bill Number 8540, by the
4 Committee on Rules, an act making an
5 appropriation for the support of government.
6 Senate Bill Number 8541, by the
7 Committee on Rules, an act to provide for
8 payments to licensed day care centers and family
9 day care homes under the Child and Adult Care
10 Food Program.
11 Also, Senate Bill Number 5056, by
12 Senator Libous and others, an act to amend the
13 Tax Law, in relation to authorizing a tax credit
14 for employing individuals with disabilities.
15 All bills reported directly for
16 third reading.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, all bills are ordered directly to
19 third reading.
20 Senator Present.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
22 can we have Calendar 1115 have its third reading
23 at this time?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
2 will read Calendar Number 1115.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1115. Senator Stafford, moves to discharge the
5 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number
6 11758 and substitute it for the identical
7 Calendar Number 1115.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Present.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
11 is there a message of necessity, message of
12 appropriation at the desk for this bill?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 substitution is ordered.
15 Senator Present, we have messages
16 of necessity and appropriation on this bill at
17 the desk.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: May I move that
19 we accept the messages?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 motion is to accept the message of necessity and
22 appropriation. All those in favor signify by
23 saying aye.
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1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 Opposed, nay.
3 (There was no response. )
4 The ayes have it. The motion is
5 adopted.
6 Read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up
16 Calendar 1116?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
18 will read Calendar Number 1116.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1116, by the Senate Committee on Rules. Senator
21 Stafford moves to discharge the Committee on
22 Finance from Assembly Bill Number 11759 and
23 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
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1 1116.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 substitution is ordered.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
6 is there a message of necessity, a message of
7 appropriation at the desk for this bill?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes,
9 there is, Senator Present.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
11 I move that we accept the messages.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
13 in favor of accepting the messages of necessity
14 and appropriation signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 Opposed, nay.
17 (There was no response. )
18 The messages are accepted.
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
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1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
6 can we have Calendar 1117 read at this time?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
8 will read Calendar Number 1117.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1117, by the Committee on Rules. Senator
11 Stafford moves to discharge the committee on
12 Finance from Assembly Bill Number 11760 and
13 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
14 1117.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 substitution is ordered.
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 is there a message of necessity, a message of
20 appropriation at the desk for 1117?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
22 indicates there are messages of necessity and
23 appropriation, Senator Present.
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1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
2 I move we accept the messages.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
4 in favor of accepting the messages of
5 appropriation and necessity signify by saying
6 aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response. )
10 The messages are accepted.
11 The clerk will read the last
12 section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we go back
23 to regular order?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2 Presentation of petitions.
3 Messages from the Assembly.
4 Messages from the Governor.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator DiCarlo.
10 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
11 on behalf of Senator Cook, please place a
12 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1092, and on
13 behalf of Senator Skelos, please place a
14 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 637.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's
16 stars will be placed on Calendars Number 1092
17 and 637.
18 Senator Wright.
19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
20 on behalf of Senator Spano, on page number 17, I
21 offer the following amendments to Calendar
22 Number 734, Senate Print Number 5622-C, and ask
23 that said bill retain its place on the Third
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1 Reading Calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So
3 ordered.
4 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
5 Senator Bruno, on page number 35, I offer the
6 following amendments to Calendar Number 1098,
7 Senate Print Number 7133, and ask that said bill
8 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So
10 ordered.
11 SENATOR WRIGHT: And on behalf of
12 Senator Velella, on page number 44, I offer the
13 following amendments to Calendar Number 872,
14 Senate Print Number 7198, and ask that said bill
15 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So
17 ordered.
18 Senator Nozzolio.
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
20 on behalf of Senator Libous, I ask that the
21 stars on the following bills be removed:
22 Calendar Number 249, Bill Number 6219-A;
23 Calendar Number 854, Bill Number 7485-A;
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1 Calendar Number 847, Bill Number 6927-B;
2 Calendar Number 853, Bill Number 7189;
3 Calendar Number 901, Bill Number 4588;
4 Calendar Number 932, Bill Number 7033;
5 Calendar Number 987, Bill Number 5440-B;
6 Calendar Number 1035, Bill Number 6929-A;
7 Calendar Number 1036, Bill Number 7032; and
8 finally, Calendar Number 1038, Bill Number 8362.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's
10 stars will be removed from Calendars Number 249,
11 854, 847, 853, 901, 932, 987, 1035, 1036 and
12 1038.
13 Senator Present, may we read some
14 substitutions?
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Good.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
17 will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: On page 35,
19 Senator Seward moves to discharge the Committee
20 on Investigations from Assembly Bill Number
21 10221-A and substitute it for the identical
22 Calendar Number 1100.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
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1 substitution is ordered.
2 THE SECRETARY: On page 35,
3 Senator Cook moves to discharge the Committee on
4 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10489-A and
5 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
6 1101.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
8 Substitution is ordered.
9 THE SECRETARY: On page 36,
10 Senator Lack moves to discharge the Committee on
11 Judiciary from Assembly Bill Number 11369 and
12 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
13 1110.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
15 Substitution is ordered.
16 THE SECRETARY: On page 36,
17 Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the
18 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number
19 10348-A and substitute it for the identical
20 Calendar Number 1113.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Substitution is ordered.
23 THE SECRETARY: On page 36
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1 Senator Seward moves to discharge the Committee
2 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10401 and
3 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
4 1114.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
6 Substitution is ordered.
7 Senator Present.
8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
9 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar
10 with the exceptions of resolutions 3683, 3814
11 and 3815.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
13 to accept the -- adopt the Resolution Calendar
14 with those exceptions. All those in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response. )
19 The Resolution Calendar is
20 adopted with exceptions.
21 Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Recognize
23 Senator Wright, please.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
2 recognizes Senator Wright.
3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
4 have Resolutions Number 3814 and 3815 at the
5 desk, and would ask the clerk to read them in
6 their entirety, please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
8 will read Resolutions 3814 and 3815.
9 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
10 Resolution 3814, by Senator Wright and other
11 members of the Senate, expressing sincerest
12 sorrow upon the occasion of the death of four
13 soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division who
14 died during their tour of duty in Somalia;
15 WHEREAS, it is the sense of this
16 legislative body that those soldiers, sailors
17 and airmen who serve in our American Armed
18 Forces do so profoundly demonstrate and
19 strengthen our shared commitment to the exercise
20 ever freedom;
21 Attendant to such concern and
22 fully in accord with its long-standing
23 traditions, it is the intent of this legislative
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1 body to express sincerest sorrow upon the
2 occasion of the death of four soldiers from the
3 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) who died
4 during their tour of duty in Somalia;
5 The subsequent United States
6 soldiers lost their lives as a result of
7 injuries sustained in the line of duty in the
8 beleaguered nation of Somalia: Private E-2
9 David J. Conner, 57th Transportation Company
10 (February 15th, 1993); Sergeant Ferdinan
11 Richardson, 2nd Battalion, 25th Aviation
12 Regiment (September 25th, 1993); Sergeant
13 Cornell L. Houston, 41st Engineer Battalion
14 (October 6, 1993); PFC James H. Martin, Jr., 2nd
15 Battalion, 14th Infantry Regiment (October 4th,
16 1993);
17 The lives of those courageous
18 soldiers of the United States Army gave the
19 highest positive definition to the dedication of
20 service of our men and women in uniform;
21 These four American soldiers did
22 so valiantly give their lives in the freedom's
23 cause;
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1 In their consummate courage,
2 these four American soldiers define the
3 parameters of honor and duty, their sacrifice is
4 not in vain. On the contrary, their commitment
5 gives renewed hope to the dream of universal
6 peace for the nations of the world;
7 Through their long and sustained
8 commitment to the ideals and principles upon
9 which this beloved nation was first founded,
10 Private E-2 David J. Conner, Sergeant Ferdinan
11 Richardson, Sergeant Cornell L. Houston, PFC
12 James H. Martin, Jr., have so heroically
13 advanced that spirit of united purpose and
14 shared concern which is the unalterable
15 manifestation of our American experience; now
16 therefore be it
17 RESOLVED, that this legislative
18 body pause in its deliberations and express
19 sincerest sorrow upon the occasion of the death
20 of these four soldiers from the 10th Mountain
21 Division (Light Infantry) who died during their
22 tour of duty in Somalia, fully confident that
23 such procedure mirrors our shared commitment to
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1 preserve, to enhance and yet, effect the
2 patrimony of freedom which is our American
3 heritage; and be it further
4 RESOLVED, that copies of this
5 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
6 to the families of Private E-2 David J. Conner,
7 Sergeant Ferdinan Richardson, Sergeant Cornell
8 L. Houston and PFC James J. -- James H. Martin,
9 Jr.
10 Legislative Resolution 3815, by
11 Senator Wright and other members of the state
12 Senate, honoring the 10th Mountain Division
13 (Light Infantry) of Fort Drum, New York;
14 WHEREAS, thousands of men and
15 women from the great state of New York have
16 served faithfully and courageously with
17 dedication and sacrifice and service to their
18 country and in defense of liberty and freedom
19 around the world;
20 This legislative body is justly
21 proud of their commitment and performance and
22 the residents of this great state must never
23 forget the courage and determination which these
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1 soldiers have displayed in serving their nation
2 and protecting the ideals of freedom and
3 independence for other less fortunate of the
4 world community;
5 1200 members of the 10th Mountain
6 Division (Light Infantry), Fort Drum, New York,
7 were called upon early in the days of "Desert
8 Shield", serving with honor and valor throughout
9 the campaign and into "Desert Storm" from
10 September of 1990 to May of 1991;
11 The 10th Mountain Division of
12 Fort Drum successfully mobilized additional
13 reserve component units for service in Saudi
14 Arabia;
15 During this same period, the need
16 for a multi-national force providing observers
17 in the Sinai, also is met by members of the 10th
18 Mountain Division, the 2nd Battalion, 14th
19 Infantry Regiment comprised of 550 soldiers,
20 served in the area from November 1990 to April
21 1991, and the 2nd Battalion, 22nd Infantry
22 Regiment, dispatched 540 members during the
23 period of February through August of 1992;
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1 Matters of national interest also
2 include the safety and welfare of the country
3 and its citizenry during incidents of natural
4 disaster; the 10th Mountain Division deployed
5 over 5,000 soldiers to Florida to provide
6 essential relief assistance and protection
7 during the months of September, October 1992
8 following Hurricane Andrew;
9 International attention began to
10 focus on the plight of the Somali people in the
11 latter months of 1992, and again it was the 10th
12 Mountain Division which was among the first
13 forces to be supplied;
14 Beginning December 7th, 1992,
15 over 4500 10th Mountain Division soldiers
16 deployed to Somalia in support of Operation
17 Restore Hope; 2nd Brigade formed Task Force
18 Commando and conducted humanitarian relief and
19 peace-keeping operations. By March 30th, 1993,
20 all but 1200 soldiers from Task Force Commando
21 redeployed to Fort Drum, the second rotation
22 began on April 9th, 1993 when 1st Brigade
23 assumed the Task Force mission from 2nd
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1 Brigade. Over 1100 soldiers from 1st Brigade
2 formed Task Force Warrior, and under Operation
3 Continue Hope, provided a quick reaction force
4 in the support of UNOSOM II headquarters. The
5 third rotation began on August 16th, 1993 when
6 the Aviation Brigade assumed the Task Force
7 mission from 1st Brigade. Over 1150 soldiers
8 from the Aviation Brigade formed Task Force
9 Falcon and continued peace-keeping operations.
10 In October, 1993, 740 soldiers, including the
11 2nd Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment, deployed
12 to reinforce units already in country and the
13 Quick Reaction Force and form the nucleus of
14 Joint Task Force Somalia, they remained until
15 their commission was accomplished;
16 It was a proud and joyous
17 community, state and nation that would finally
18 welcome home the last elements of the 10th
19 Mountain Division on the 29th of March, 1994.
20 Members of an extraordinary cadre of men and
21 women whose solemn promise, to defend and
22 protect, was fulfilled in the highest of
23 traditions of a proud military and grateful
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1 nation; now therefore, be it
2 RESOLVED, that this legislative
3 body pause in its deliberations to pay tribute
4 to the brave men and women representing the 10th
5 Mountain Division (Light Infantry) of Fort Drum,
6 New York, recognizing their exemplary record of
7 service and courageous response to the calls of
8 a nation and world in need; and be it further
9 RESOLVED, that a copy of this
10 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
11 to Major General David C. Meade, Commanding
12 General of the 10th Mountain Division, Fort
13 Drum, New York.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
15 recognizes Senator Wright on the resolutions.
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
17 it's a distinct honor and privilege today for me
18 to sponsor this resolution in recognizing the
19 men and women who serve in the 10th Mountain
20 Division from Fort Drum in my home district.
21 At this time, I would also like
22 to take the opportunity to introduce Major
23 General David Meade, the Commanding General of
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1 Fort Drum.
2 (Applause)
3 Major General Meade is leading
4 his delegation of young men and women who are
5 visiting the Capitol today and spending the day
6 with us as we recognize their effort and their
7 commitment along with members of the Assembly
8 earlier today.
9 If you take a look at the history
10 of Fort Drum, it goes back a long time in terms
11 of the history of Jefferson County and, in fact,
12 it goes back to 1907 when a local community
13 originally leased 10,000 acres and made that
14 available to the United States Army for
15 training, and over the period of time since
16 then, there's been a continuing commitment from
17 the people of the North Country to the United
18 States Army and to the area now known as Fort
19 Drum.
20 In 1986, this state made a
21 commitment to the United States Army to make the
22 necessary investment to make Fort Drum and its
23 expansion a reality in the North Country and a
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1 reality in this state. That investment exceeded
2 a commitment in excess of $200 million, an
3 investment in local infrastructure, an
4 investment in housing, an investment in sewer,
5 water, sanitation services, an investment in
6 human services, that were critical to the
7 decision-making in the United States government
8 to decide that Fort Drum would become a facility
9 for expansion, would become the most modern
10 facility in the United States Army and would
11 receive an investment of $1.4 billion into the
12 state of New York to become home for the 10th
13 Mountain (Light Infantry).
14 In the intervening years, that
15 division has done nothing but serve its country
16 and serve the people of the North Country in
17 this state with extreme honor and dedication.
18 As the resolution indicated, the
19 representatives of the 10th Mountain have been
20 deployed to the Sinai. They've been deployed to
21 Saudi and "Desert Storm". They've been deployed
22 here in the continental states in a humanitarian
23 mission in response to Hurricane Andrew, and
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1 most recently, have served with distinction and
2 honor in exemplary service in Somalia in that
3 humanitarian effort, and as one of the
4 resolutions also recognizes, four members of the
5 division made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf
6 of this nation in terms of giving of their life
7 that we so duly honored and recognized today.
8 So I'm very pleased to have
9 representatives from the 10th Mountain Division
10 here. I'm very pleased that, as a Legislature
11 and the Senate particularly, we are recognizing
12 today the efforts of the men and women who serve
13 in the 10th Mountain, but also who serve in the
14 United States Army, and in doing so, we reaffirm
15 the commitment of the state of New York to
16 maintaining that installation at Fort Drum, to
17 making the necessary commitment essential to
18 ensure that that facility remains an important
19 part of the infrastructure within the United
20 States Army, and New York State maintains that
21 commitment.
22 So it's with great pleasure that
23 I'm pleased to sponsor the resolution today, Mr.
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1 President, to recognize the men and women of the
2 10th Mountain Division, and on behalf of my
3 community in the state, to recognize their
4 service and commitment to all of us, and I would
5 ask that the resolution be open to all of the
6 members of the Senate.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Present -- Senator Present, with regards to the
10 sponsorship, is it your desire to place all of
11 the members of the Senate on the sponsorship
12 other than those who wish otherwise?
13 SENATOR PRESENT: You are
14 correct, sir.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: O.K.
16 Direct the clerk to do that.
17 Senator DiCarlo, on the
18 resolution.
19 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
20 it's a pleasure to rise in support of this
21 resolution. I've spent the last seven or eight
22 hours with Senator Wright and these soldiers
23 from Fort Drum, and I'm very proud of them. I'm
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1 also proud of a number of them who come from the
2 county of Kings, my home town of Brooklyn, New
3 York. They are fine individuals and I'm sure
4 will continue to make us proud.
5 Speaking as the chairman of the
6 Veterans Committee, the last time we had members
7 of the military from West Point, I stood and I
8 made a point that, as we see these bright,
9 young, energetic, loyal Americans before us
10 today who are serving us now, we must always
11 remember and never forget the duty that we have
12 to them when they leave the military as
13 veterans.
14 So I would pledge to the soldiers
15 here today that we will not forget what you do
16 for us, and we will always remember, and God
17 bless all of you.
18 Thank you.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Mendez.
21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I
22 also, for the record, do want to state that for
23 one, we all here feel very proud of the
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1 accomplishment of this wonderful group of young
2 men and women that with such valor and courage,
3 defend our country anywhere that they are sent
4 to do so.
5 Among this wonderful group, there
6 is a constituent of mine, and his name is
7 Abraham Rose. Would you please stand up? And
8 he completed -- thank you. He completed his
9 mission with other members of the 10th in
10 Somalia.
11 And in closing, Mr. President, I
12 just want to say a message that I learned this
13 morning, and that I think all of them will
14 understand very well, and that message goes as
15 follows: "Hooah!"
16 (Response of "Hooah!")
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
18 recognizes Senator Hoffmann.
19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 I join the rest of my colleagues
22 in thanking Senator Wright for giving us this
23 opportunity to offer a much deserved "thank you"
4140
1 to the 10th Mountain Division and to its
2 commander, General Meade, and we thank you also
3 for bringing to Albany today such a fine group
4 of young men and women.
5 I would just like to remind all
6 of you gathered with us today in the Senate
7 chambers, that we look to you as leaders of the
8 future in the military, and here in New York
9 State we've had an opportunity to observe first
10 hand the shifting attitude of this nation
11 regarding its military forces, and we've had an
12 opportunity to reflect upon our role in our
13 nation's defense, sometimes with great pain, as
14 we have been through the recent BRAC go 'round,
15 and as we look to the next BRAC go 'round.
16 While we understand as Americans
17 that there will be military cutbacks, we have
18 looked very deep inside our souls and analyzed
19 what's happening around the rest of the country,
20 and we know probably better than any other
21 Americans right now outside of the Pentagon, how
22 much we need to protect you at Fort Drum, and
23 how much we need to continue providing the
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1 resources to make all of our northeastern
2 military installations secure.
3 One of the big shifts that has
4 happened in this nation over the last 50 years
5 while we're celebrating D-Day or the
6 commemorating the awesome anniversary of D-day
7 is perhaps the better language, we recognize the
8 tremendous shift away from the heavy armored
9 divisions and into the Light Infantry. The
10 quick reaction forces are the hallmark of
11 today's Army and you are the premier force in
12 that area.
13 Because of your status, because
14 of the excellence that you've achieved in all of
15 the international missions that you have been
16 involved with, as well as Hurricane Andrew,
17 you're now in line for a new brigade as a result
18 of the downsizing that's happening in the
19 European Theatre, and at the same time, the 3rd
20 Brigade that's presently affiliated with Fort
21 Drum, which is a guard unit, is due to be
22 announced as an enhanced by grade which will
23 increase in its strength.
4142
1 Part of the new seamless Army
2 that blends together guard and reserve
3 components along with active duty, has been
4 pioneered, tested and proven successful as a
5 result of your work at Fort Drum.
6 So I want to thank General Meade
7 for coming today, offer our continued support,
8 those of us in upstate New York who serve as
9 your deployment arena. I have the distinction
10 of representing both Hancock and Griffiss Air
11 Force base which are well known to you and the
12 rest of Fort Drum, and I will pledge that we
13 will do everything that we can to maintain all
14 of the facilities that you need to do your
15 mission as we go into the next decade.
16 Thank you for coming today.
17 Congratulations.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
19 recognizes Senator Larkin.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 I'm honored to join Senator
23 Wright and the rest of my colleagues here in
4143
1 honoring members of the 10th. The 10th has a
2 very, very proud history.
3 When you look at the achievements
4 of the division from back when -- way back when
5 it was part of Mark Clark's 5th Army in World
6 War II -- I'm sure, General, you've read some of
7 his comments about the brilliance of the men and
8 women who fought and served with it.
9 Each year here we have a day
10 called "West Point Day", and over the past 16
11 years that I have been here and hosting that, I
12 have seen many young men and women come here.
13 Some of those young men and women went to the
14 10th. Wherever they served, they served with
15 pride, they were distinguished.
16 Just recently, two men in the
17 Somalia expedition were awarded the
18 Congressional Medal of Honor, a 35-year-old
19 sergeant and a 33-year-old sergeant -- the
20 tremendous weight, not only of the families, but
21 of you, the survivors, who rally around those
22 families and make sure that they have the
23 stability to carry forth not only for the
4144
1 spouses but for those children.
2 The military is a family that is
3 proud and has survived and it survives because
4 of the cameraderie and the willingness to
5 remember that you've made a commitment to
6 yourself and to the United States of America,
7 and to defend that, and you in the 10th can be
8 very proud. We New Yorkers are proud of you,
9 and no matter where you come from, we're proud
10 that you're here. This will be a tradition and
11 years later on you'll look back as I do.
12 I will be retired 27 years the
13 30th of this month. I know I don't look that
14 old, John. In my days, I think -- I think of
15 the skirmishes with the 10th in Germany, and I
16 think about those who went on and led to greater
17 things in 'Nam. The 10th, proud; the 10th, a
18 tradition; the 10th, first class.
19 God bless you all.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 question is on the Resolution Number 3815, the
22 -- of the two presented first, honoring the
23 10th Mountain Division. All those in favor
4145
1 signify by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Opposed nay.
4 (There was no response. )
5 The resolution is unanimously
6 adopted.
7 The question is now on Resolution
8 3814, honoring the four soldiers who gave their
9 life. For those of you who are voting for this
10 bill aye, I would ask you to stand in a moment
11 of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed. )
14 The resolution is unanimously
15 adopted.
16 General Meade, on behalf of
17 Senator Wright, Senator Marino, all of the
18 members of the Senate, we welcome you here
19 today. You and the people who join you, your
20 soldiers under your command, make all of this
21 possible, make all of this democracy possible.
22 You allow us to work for a better country and we
23 thank you for that.
4146
1 Thank you for coming.
2 (Applause)
3 Senator Present.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
5 can we take up the non-controversial calendar?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
7 will read the non-controversial calendar.
8 THE SECRETARY: On page 5,
9 Calendar Number 301, by Senator Holland, Senate
10 Bill Number 6309-C, an act to amend the Penal
11 Law, in relation to persistent violent felony
12 offenders.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
14 last section.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 434, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 190, an
20 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside for the day.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4147
1 478, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number
2 5881-B.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
4 for the day.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 502, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3474,
9 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 607, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 71-A,
15 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for
17 the day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside for the day.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 682, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 5229,
22 an act to amend the Public Service Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
4148
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5 bill aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 719, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
8 7248-A.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for
10 Senator Oppenheimer.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 800, by Senator Holland -
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
16 for the day.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 812, by Senator Larkin.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill
22 aside for today.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4149
1 bill aside for the day.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 814, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
4 Assembly Bill Number 7984-A, an act to amend the
5 General Municipal Law.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
8 bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 829, by Senator Johnson -
11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for
12 Senator Oppenheimer.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 838, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4659,
17 an act to amend the Executive Law and the Social
18 Services Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4150
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 855, by Senator Libous -
8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill
9 aside for the day.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside for the day.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 878, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1392,
14 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation
15 to multiple employer welfare arrangements.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
4151
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 893, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7051-B,
5 an act to amend the State Administrative
6 Procedure Act.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Road the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 894, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7054-B,
19 an act to amend the State Administrative
20 Procedure Act.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4152
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 917 -
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill
11 aside.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
13 would you lay that bill aside on behalf of
14 Senator Wright?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
16 bill aside -
17 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm sorry.
18 Would you star the bill?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's
20 star on the bill. The bill is starred.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 945, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 7786,
23 Environmental Conservation Law and the Public
4153
1 Health Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Cook.
15 SENATOR COOK: Could we
16 reconsider the vote on that bill that was just
17 passed, 945?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Still in
19 the house here? The clerk will call the roll on
20 reconsideration.
21 (The Secretary called the roll on
22 reconsideration. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
4154
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Cook.
3 SENATOR COOK: Lay it aside,
4 please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 956, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number -
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1000, by member of the Assembly McLaughlin,
14 Assembly Bill Number 3908-A, an act to amend the
15 Vehicle and Traffic Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
4155
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1004, by Senator Maltese -
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1044, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 7185,
10 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to
11 agricultural practices.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
21 bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1053, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 2993,
4156
1 an act to amend the Education Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
3 last section.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1093 -
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1095, by Senator -
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
15 for the day.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Star the bill,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 sponsor requests the bill be starred. Star the
20 bill.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1096, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 6937,
23 Racing, Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.
4157
1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1099, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number
6 7157-B, an act to amend the Tax Law, authorizing
7 the county of Genesee to impose an additional
8 one percent sales tax.
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
10 for the day.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside for the day.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1100, substituted earlier today by member of the
15 Assembly Casale, Assembly Bill Number 10221-A,
16 an act to amend the Tax Law, authorizing the
17 county of Herkimer to impose an additional one
18 percent sales tax.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4158
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1101, substituted earlier today, by member of
8 the Assembly Hickey, Assembly Bill Number
9 10489-A, Commissioner of General Services to
10 sell and convey to the Greene County Community
11 Action Agency, supported housing facility.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1102, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number
4159
1 7407, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law,
2 in relation to taxation of certain state lands.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 1,
11 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1104, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
16 7837-A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
18 last section.
19 Senator Dollinger.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this
21 Calendar Number 1104?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
23 Number 1104 is being called right now.
4160
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay the bill
2 aside for a question and explanation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1105, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
8 7970.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1106, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
14 8030.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1107, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
20 8031,proposing an amendment to the Constitution.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 question is on the resolution. The clerk will
23 call the roll.
4161
1 (The Secretary called the roll. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 resolution is adopted.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1108, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 8035,
7 authorizing an apportionment of state aid to
8 certain -- for certain capital expenditures.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
10 local fiscal impact note at the desk. The clerk
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1109, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8058,
22 Uniform Justice Court Act.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
4162
1 will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1110, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
12 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11369,
13 amends Chapter 502 of the Laws of 1992, relating
14 to certain non-judicial officers and employees.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
16 will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4163
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1111, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number
4 8104, amends Chapter 890 of the Laws of 1982.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1112, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 8262,
17 Education Law, in relation to courses of
18 instruction in patriotism.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
20 last section. Lay the bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1113, substituted earlier today, by member of
23 the Assembly Pillittere, Assembly Bill Number
4164
1 10348-A, Parks, Recreation and Historic
2 Preservation Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
4 will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1114, substituted earlier today, by member of
15 the Assembly Tocci, Assembly Bill Number 10401,
16 an act to amend the Military Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4165
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 Senator Cook.
5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, on
6 behalf of Senator Daly, would you please place a
7 sponsor's star on Calendar 945?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
9 Number 945 will be starred at the request of the
10 sponsor.
11 Senator Holland.
12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
13 on page 16, I offer the following amendments to
14 my bill, Calendar 701, Senate Print Number
15 1806-A, and ask that the said bill retain its
16 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is amended and will retain its place on the
19 Third Reading Calendar.
20 Senator Present, that completes
21 the non-controversial calendar. What's your
22 pleasure?
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
4166
1 let's take up the controversial calendar,
2 please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
4 will read the controversial calendar.
5 THE SECRETARY: On page 5,
6 Calendar Number 301, by Senator Holland, Senate
7 Bill Number 6309-C, an act to amend the Penal
8 Law, in relation to persistent violent felony
9 offenders and place of imprisonment.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Holland, Senator Gold has asked for an
13 explanation, sir.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. This
15 bill deals with only three violent felonies, and
16 a life term would be issued for three violent
17 felonies. 43 percent of the people convicted of
18 felony charges are re-arrested within three
19 years. Governor Cuomo has stated that 20
20 percent of the offenders commit 80 percent of
21 the crimes, but federal figures also show that
22 only six percent of the criminals commit about
23 70 percent of the crimes.
4167
1 Let me introduce you to a man
2 named Cecil Emil Davis, age 34.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Gold, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Holland, I
7 had asked for the explanation, and I appreciate
8 you giving it, but with your permission, maybe I
9 could make the question a little easier -- I
10 mean, not easier but, I mean, a little more
11 direct.
12 We had one of these bills a few
13 weeks back. We had a bill by Senator Holland
14 yesterday -- Saland yesterday.
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm Holland.
16 SENATOR GOLD: (Continuing) maybe
17 you could tell us what's the difference, or are
18 we going to have 35 bills so that every
19 Republican can say they introduced one?
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: I can't answer
21 that question yes or no, but I can tell you
22 Senator Saland's bill, I believe, deals with
23 other none-violent crimes. My bill only deals
4168
1 with three violent felonies.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator
3 yield to a question?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Sure.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR GOLD: I was under the
8 impression, and I'll tell you, it's hard to read
9 everybody's version because I know since the
10 Governor isn't going to sign 35 of them, I
11 figure maybe we'll get the same debate every
12 day, but yesterday I thought we were dealing
13 with a bill that dealt with A-1 and A-2
14 felonies. Aren't those pretty violent?
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: I understand -
16 you're correct. It did deal with three violent
17 felonies, but it went on to deal with other
18 non-violent crimes as well. This bill just
19 deals with three violent felonies.
20 SENATOR GOLD: So -- if I can ask
21 you one last question?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Senator yields to one last question. Senator
4169
1 Gold.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Does this mean
3 your bill is a softer bill than the Saland bill,
4 that you're softer on crime? Is that it?
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't know
6 the answer to that question, Senator.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
8 -- Senator Mendez.
9 SENATOR MENDEZ: Would the
10 Senator yield for a question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're
12 asking Senator Holland to yield to a question?
13 Senator, do you yield? The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR MENDEZ: You mentioned
16 that your bill deals with only three major
17 felonies.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Violent
19 felonies, yes, Senator.
20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Which are they?
21 Would you enumerate them for me, please?
22 SENATOR HOLLAND: The violent
23 felonies?
4170
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yeah.
2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. They are
3 listed in section 70.02 of the Penal Law, but
4 they are attempted murder, kidnapping, arson,
5 manslaughter, sodomy, aggravated sexual assault,
6 criminal possession of a weapon, criminal use of
7 a firearm, assault on a police officer, intim...
8 what is it -- intimidation of a victim, robbery
9 and rape.
10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Those are the
12 only crimes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
14 will read the last section.
15 Senator Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
17 President, would the sponsor yield just to one
18 question?
19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Sure.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Holland, do you yield?
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just want
23 to make sure I understand. Is it correct,
4171
1 Senator, that if you are charged with a third of
2 any one of that collection, you would then
3 trigger the penalties that are provided for in
4 this bill?
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: If you are
6 convicted, yes, that's correct.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And if you
8 are -- excuse me, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're
10 asking to continue to yield, Senator Dollinger?
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Continue?
13 The Senator continues.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If there is
15 another violent felony which is not included in
16 the list you just read but which there is a
17 conviction, then it would still require three
18 that are within the subset that you recited a
19 moment ago?
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: The bill only
21 says within section 70.02 of the Penal Law,
22 yes.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Thank
4172
1 you, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
3 will read the last section.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
11 the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 1,
13 Senator Espada recorded in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
17 Calendar Number 502, by Senator Volker, Senate
18 Bill Number 3474, an act to amend the Criminal
19 Procedure Law.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: -- could you hold
4173
1 this for just one moment? I think Senator
2 Galiber is going to at this moment enter the
3 chamber and proceed towards his seat, and I
4 think he may have an interest in this piece
5 of -
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
7 will recognize Senator Galiber when he reaches
8 his seat.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I recognized
10 him when he walked in the door, the good-looking
11 fellow with a nice tie.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Galiber, on Calendar Number 502.
14 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 Can I have an explanation and
17 then I have a brief amendment which I hope will
18 be convincing enough to get a good "aye" vote
19 on.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Maltese for an explanation on Senator Volker's
22 bill.
23 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
4174
1 this refers to an amendment to the Criminal
2 Procedure Law, in relation to submission of
3 written materials to the jury during
4 deliberation.
5 It is being introduced at the
6 request of the chief administrator of the courts
7 upon the recommendation of his advis... the
8 Advisory Committee on Criminal Law and
9 Procedure. It would amend section 310.20 in
10 order to permit certain written materials to be
11 submitted to the jury during deliberations.
12 Although the present law
13 indicates that certain items, namely exhibits,
14 verdict sheets and, in certain circumstances,
15 copies of statutes may be given to the jury, the
16 law at present makes no provision for submission
17 to the jury of a copy of the accusatory
18 statement -- instrument, the indictment, or the
19 court's instruction to the jury or a list of the
20 elements of the charges against the defendant or
21 defenses thereto.
22 Since 1987, there's been a course
23 of Court of Appeals decisions and lower court
4175
1 decisions that have cast doubt on certain
2 aspects of what may be given to the jury. As a
3 result, the Advisory Committee has come up with
4 this amendment which they hope would remove all
5 doubt.
6 They indicate that they would
7 follow the present statute and provide that the
8 court still has discretion to decide what may or
9 may not be given to the jury and, in addition
10 thereto, the parties must consent. This would
11 apply in all circumstances except in one, where
12 no consents would be required, although it would
13 still be at the discretion of the court for
14 submission of a sheet containing the elements of
15 the crimes charged, the defenses thereto and
16 portions of the court's charge with reference
17 specifically to those crimes charged and the
18 defenses thereto.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
20 recognizes Senator Galiber.
21 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would
22 you yield for just one or two questions?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4176
1 Maltese, do you yield?
2 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR GALIBER: This amendment,
6 you stated back in 1987, there's -- we're trying
7 to give to the jury as much as possible in order
8 to -- their deliberations to be expedited in
9 some way but certainly make their judgments as
10 those who hear the facts and make a decision,
11 would make it a lot easier for them, is that
12 correct?
13 SENATOR MALTESE: I -- Mr.
14 President, I believe that the purpose of this
15 amendment is to remove the doubt on the part of
16 the jury as to the elements of the crime,
17 whether their decision, based on the facts of
18 the case and their interpretation of the law as
19 given to them by the judge, would be consistent
20 with the law. So this -- the purpose of this is
21 so that they may take into the jury room these
22 extra materials, so to speak, in order to allow
23 them to understand the judge's charge and apply
4177
1 the facts to the circumstances of the case.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Galiber.
4 SENATOR GALIBER: In the spirit
5 of where the sponsor of this amendment is coming
6 from, I offer the following amendments and would
7 like an opportunity to explain it. I believe
8 it's at the desk.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Galiber, we do have an amendment at the desk.
11 You're waiving its reading, have an opportunity
12 to explain it?
13 SENATOR GALIBER: No, I would
14 like to have it read, Mr. President, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You would
16 like to have the amendment read?
17 SENATOR GALIBER: That's correct.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
19 will read the amendment.
20 THE SECRETARY: Strike out
21 everything after the enacting clause and
22 insert: Section 1. Section 310.20 of the
23 Criminal Procedure Law is amended by adding a
4178
1 new sub- division (3) to read as follows:
2 "(3). Upon request of the
3 defendant, the court must also provide the jury
4 with a written statement that the jury has the
5 final authority to decide whether or not to
6 apply the law to the facts before it; that is,
7 if -- that it is appropriate to bring in to the
8 -- its deliberations, the feelings of the
9 community and its own feelings based on
10 conscience, and that nothing shall bar the jury
11 from acquiting the defendant if it feels that
12 the law, as applied to the facts, would produce
13 an inequitable or unjust result.
14 Section 2. This act shall take
15 effect on the 90th day after it shall have
16 become a law."
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
18 recognizes Senator Galiber on the amendment.
19 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 And I say to my colleagues,
22 usually we do not have the amendment read, but
23 this amendment which I offer is a concept which
4179
1 has been around for a very long while, and it's
2 called jury nullification, so in the spirit of
3 what we are attempting to do to make the jurors
4 give them as much information as possible.
5 Historically, we've always
6 recognized, Senators, that the jury had a right
7 to go contra to what the judge would tell them
8 as a matter of law. Usually, when we have our
9 trials, they say to the jury, "You must decide
10 based on the facts," and we give the -- the
11 judge, that is, gives the law -- a charge on the
12 law built into the concept, and juries have
13 always exercised nullification.
14 Built into the notion of a jury
15 is a community input tried by your peers. They
16 have an inherent right to disregard the law as a
17 judge presents it to them at trial. The
18 problem, however, and the Supreme Court cases
19 upheld that they do, in fact, have this power
20 and they should exercise that power. However,
21 what has happened is that judges have been
22 reluctant, in fact, oh, yea, perhaps not
23 reluctant but said "No, we will not charge the
4180
1 jury" to that effect.
2 This amendment is a simple one.
3 It tells the jury that they do, in fact, have an
4 absolute right to ignore the law that is
5 presented by him. This is a simple amendment,
6 complex concept, no question about it, and we
7 have seen cases from time to time where juries
8 have ignored the law. We've had cases of
9 persons who have shot in self-defense where the
10 jury has discharged or refused to indict, rather
11 than to convict in areas where the assault took
12 place, but will find in the -- possession of the
13 gun in question. We've had occasions where
14 people who had possessionary crimes. The one
15 noted case was a mayor, if you will, of
16 Washington, who the jury refused to indict -- to
17 convict, rather, but held him for the possession
18 of a small quantity of cocaine.
19 So, Mr. President, the bill would
20 create in New York State the Florida form of
21 jury law to require trial courts upon the
22 request of the defendant to inform jurors of all
23 their powers and responsibilities of a
4181
1 particular case, including their inherent
2 authority to decide whether or not to apply the
3 law to the facts before them. It is well
4 established that the juries have an
5 unquestioned, unrefutable and unreversible power
6 to acquit -- to acquit and disregard the
7 instructions of the law given by the trial judge
8 in the cited cases. I will try to cut this
9 short.
10 While the support by the power of
11 the jury to nullify what's said by the courts is
12 beyond question, the sticky point is whether or
13 not the jury should be told by this power
14 through instructions from the court. While the
15 Supreme Court has never settled this question,
16 lower federal courts have rather consistently
17 ruled that such instructions should not be
18 given.
19 They cite another case. The New
20 York State Court of Appeals have viewed the
21 issue of jury nullification with icy detach
22 ment, not only in jury instructions but also in
23 a voir dire process. Jury nullification is
4182
1 something that it's about time, if you will,
2 that we should take note of it and this piece of
3 legislation, the amendment, in the spirit of
4 what Senator Maltese is attempting to do, would
5 accomplish just that.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
7 any other Senator?
8 Senator Maltese.
9 SENATOR MALTESE: Would the
10 sponsor yield to a question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Galiber, do you yield? The Senator yields.
13 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
14 would the sponsor indicate whether or not he
15 feels -- whether or not he feels that this is
16 the law at present with the exception of the
17 fact that the request -- the mandate would be on
18 the court to advise the jury of the law, of the
19 nullification?
20 SENATOR GALIBER: That's the
21 part, yes, sir.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Would the
23 sponsor also indicate whether or not this would
4183
1 be a mandate on the court without the parties'
2 consent?
3 SENATOR GALIBER: The request
4 would have to flow from the defense attorney.
5 If the request from a charge, as you well know
6 was given, the judge would have to charge. It
7 would be mandated that he charge that the
8 request of the -
9 SENATOR MALTESE: So this would
10 remove the discretion of the court and would be
11 done despite the opposition of the prosecution?
12 SENATOR GALIBER: That's correct.
13 SENATOR MALTESE: No further
14 questions.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
17 amendment to Calendar Number 502?
18 (There was no response. )
19 Hearing none, the question is on
20 the amendment. All those in favor signify by
21 saying aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 Opposed, nay.
4184
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 The nays have it. The amendment
3 is defeated.
4 The clerk will read the last
5 section to Calendar Number 502.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 682, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 5229,
16 an act to amend the Public Service Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Seward, Senator Leichter has asked for an
23 explanation of Calendar Number 682.
4185
1 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 This bill would authorize the
4 Public Service Commission to promulgate rules to
5 make sure that the -- any messages that are in
6 the -- determined to be harmful to minors could
7 not be available to minors, and the way that the
8 bill guides the Public Service Commission to
9 accomplish that goal would be to require them to
10 -- anyone that would have access to these so
11 called dial-a-porn' services, would first have
12 to apply for a personal identification number,
13 and at the time of that application would have
14 to prove that they are 18 years of age or older
15 and then, of course, would have to use that
16 number when they had access to these services.
17 The bill also requires that the
18 billing and collection practices of the
19 telephone companies be a matter of contractual
20 agreement between the information providers, the
21 providers of these services, and the telephone
22 companies.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
4186
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leichter.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr.
4 President, we had this bill before us last
5 year. I pointed out at that time that while we
6 would all like so-called offensive messages not
7 to be available for children, but a bill of this
8 sort, to my mind, is clearly unconstitutional
9 where there are no standards whatsoever as what
10 is offensive to children, to say the Public
11 Service Commission keep out these messages that
12 are offensive. We don't tell them what's
13 offensive. There's no guide, no standard
14 whatsoever.
15 Maybe some people consider it
16 offensive if you urge people to go out and march
17 for the environment. I don't know. Some people
18 might say that is so, and as I read the bill, I
19 see no standards whatsoever. I would just refer
20 people to what I thought was a very well written
21 and a very persuasive memorandum in opposition,
22 of the Civil Liberties Union.
23 Finally, let me just point out
4187
1 that the following four lovers of the Con
2 stitution voted against the bill last year,
3 Senator Galiber, Senator Ohrenstein, Senator
4 Waldon and Senator Leichter.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Seward to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
16 President.
17 I appreciate Senator Leichter's
18 concerns but I would point out, as I explain my
19 vote, that the expression "harmful to minors" is
20 defined in the legislation and it references the
21 Penal Law, specifically subdivision (6) of
22 Section 235.20 of the Penal Law as the yardstick
23 to be used to determine what is, in fact,
4188
1 harmful to minors. So, based on that, I support
2 the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
4 the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
6 the negative on Calendar Number 682 are Senators
7 Galiber, Leichter and Paterson. Ayes 47, nays
8 4.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 719, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
13 7248-A, establish the mercury task force.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Johnson, Senator Oppenheimer has asked for an
16 explanation.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator.
18 This is a bill, and you may recall two years ago
19 we did a bill limiting the amount of mercury in
20 batteries. We found out since there are many
21 other sources of mercury in manufacturing, even
22 around our homes. Battery manufacturing, of
23 course, we dealt with and that's being phased
4189
1 out. You know that when you see the batteries,
2 they say "mercury free" or "almost mercury
3 free". Fluorescent lights still have a lot of
4 mercury in them. Jewelry manufacturing, paint
5 manufacturers, electric switch and chemical
6 manufacturers, even refining and recycling
7 mercury eliminates -- puts some mercury into the
8 air and into the environment. Dentists,
9 hospitals all use mercury, and we did say at the
10 time we did the batteries that we thought since
11 mercury is such a dangerous persistent poison,
12 that we would look into other ways to deal with
13 other environmental sources of mercury.
14 This simply calls upon the
15 Commissioners of Health and Environmental
16 Conservation and Economic Development, to
17 convene a task force with those industries using
18 mercury so they can sit down, get together and
19 try to find out how much they're using, whether
20 there is any releases, whether there is a way to
21 not use mercury, whether there's a way to limit
22 the release into the environment for the
23 protection of human health, and that's all
4190
1 this does, Senator.
2 It doesn't mandate anybody to do
3 anything about it but to find out what's out
4 there and how we can take some effective steps
5 to deal with it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
7 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer.
8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If the
9 Senator -- the sponsor would yield for a
10 question.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Johnson, do you yield for a question?
13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
14 President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields, Senator Oppenheimer.
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The purpose
18 of the task force is important. The question -
19 and I believe the bill has been amended. The
20 question that was raised consisted of the people
21 who would be placed on the task force because it
22 looked as though only industry people were on
23 and we were hopeful that health people would be
4191
1 on and, you know, other people.
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, do you
3 have a copy of my bill, 7248-A?
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That -- I
5 was questioning the "A".
6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Do you have
7 that at your desk?
8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Somewhere
9 in this mess, yes.
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Look at the
11 reverse side of it, Senator.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: You are
13 saying that -
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'll read it to
15 you if you would like. I thought you might have
16 it there. "Such task force shall also include
17 representatives of environmental, consumer
18 protection, retail groups, toxicological experts
19 and other industries," and so on.
20 So I think everyone who's
21 interested at all would be represented on this
22 task force.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you
4192
1 very much, Senator.
2 That was my question, and I
3 should have read the amendment myself.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Oppenheimer, on the bill.
6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, on the
7 bill.
8 We have memos, and I think that
9 we ought to correct the impression that the
10 memos offer, because the problem that has been
11 posed has been overcome by this amendment, and
12 now EPL and nypirg would support this bill. So
13 I'm going to vote in favor. I urge everyone to
14 do so.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on Calendar
17 Number 719?
18 (There was no response. )
19 Hearing none, the clerk will read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4193
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 814, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
8 Assembly Bill Number 7984-A, an act to amend the
9 General Municipal Law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Present, an explanation has been asked for.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Forthcoming.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Nozzolio, an explanation has been asked for on
16 Calendar Number 814, by Senator Gold.
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
18 my colleagues, Senate Bill 4924-A is a measure
19 that was introduced by myself at the request of
20 the Firemen's Association of the state of New
21 York (FASNY) and the Conference of Private
22 Organizations of New York State.
23 What the measure does is to
4194
1 permit and increase the prize limit from $1,000
2 to $3,000 for games of chance, otherwise known
3 as bell jar games and merchandise wheels.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Gold.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator
8 Nozzolio yield to a question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator Gold?
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Senator does.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, this is
15 -- bell jar game, can you tell me how that
16 works?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I am not a
18 participant, Senator, but as I understand that
19 games of chance and bell jar games are games
20 that eleemosynary organizations participate in
21 as fund-raising devices, allowed now currently
22 under law and that bell jar is a -- is kind of a
23 euphemism for placement of slips of games of
4195
1 chance paid for on an individual slip basis much
2 like the lottery where a tear-off is used and a
3 victor is decided on the series of the particu
4 lar game.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
6 Would you yield to one more
7 question, Senator?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, while I
12 realize that the Legislature in New York
13 operates differently, in many respects, from
14 other legislative bodies, certainly differently
15 from the Congress, I believe that we ought to
16 have some sense of where we're going when we
17 handle legislation in certain areas.
18 So, for example, it has not been
19 uncommon for us on a particular day to have a
20 senior citizens' calendar, and we have a bunch
21 of bills, 10, 15, whatever, which is the
22 legislative program for senior citizens that
23 year. We've done it with veterans. We've had
4196
1 in the last few weeks, a number of bills that
2 have dealt with bingo, with bingo employees,
3 with increasing, decreasing, with bell jar, and
4 what I'm curious about, Senator, is why we don't
5 have one day or one program that lets all of us
6 know at one point what we're proposing in this
7 area.
8 Now, what my particular concern
9 is, is that in a lot of these areas, while I
10 know that there are charitable and not-for
11 profit institutions that help themselves with
12 these programs, my guess, and this is only a
13 guess, is that the money that is being raised is
14 not coming from people who live on Park Avenue
15 in the 80s, Central Park South. I mean, a lot
16 of this money is coming from people who are
17 either poor people or middle income or whatever
18 but, at what point, it seems to me, do we have a
19 plan where we say, "It's all right to raise
20 money, but we should not be reaching further
21 with these goals", and I'm not making a judgment
22 as to what the right level is. I am making a
23 judgment that we get this area in piecemeal, and
4197
1 by the end of the session, I don't know whether
2 any of us are going to know exactly where it's
3 come out, so that's a really long introduction
4 but, I mean, that's really my question.
5 Shouldn't we have some policy -
6 and I know your bill is one isolated bill,
7 Senator Nozzolio, but don't you think it should
8 be considered along with what we do with bingo
9 -- Senator Skelos, I think may have a bill.
10 We've had other bills -- and have some general
11 policy and determine what we're going to let the
12 not-for-profits do or not do?
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, that
14 does not sound unreasonable to me, but my
15 purpose, frankly, was to push a measure that
16 had, in my view, been outdated by the -- by the
17 shared members of gaming across the state, that
18 the not-for-profits, particularly within the
19 areas of Indian reservations that now allow
20 casino gaming, asked very strongly for this type
21 of legislation, and I think that their concern
22 is obviously a concern of every community that
23 is served by a volunteer fire organization or a
4198
1 volunteer -- other volunteer organizations that
2 support many community enterprises that deal
3 with the health and safety and welfare of the
4 community.
5 So that's why I'm suggesting that
6 this bill is appropriate today or any other day
7 because it helps volunteers help people in
8 communities. The volunteers work long and hard,
9 save the taxpayers of this state billions of
10 dollars a year that otherwise would have to be
11 provided at services supported through tax
12 dollars. They participate in a number of
13 fund-raising efforts from chicken barbecues to
14 other type of fund-raising activities, and this
15 is one, and as such, I believe that it's an
16 appropriate piece of legislation, because it
17 allows them to further help men and women in
18 their community.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
21 recognizes Senator Padavan.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
23 sponsor yield to a -
4199
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator Padavan?
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Senator does.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, as I
7 understand your bill and your explanation, this
8 would allow these bell jar games, as they're
9 called, to increase the total payout in a -
10 over any given period of time which could be a
11 day, could be a week, could be a month from
12 $1,000 to $3,000.
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's
14 correct, Senator.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, in your
16 explanation, however, you also mentioned
17 merchandise wheels as also being allowed to
18 increase, if I heard you correctly before, the
19 prize limit from 1,000 to 3,000. Can you
20 explain how that works?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator.
22 That in all games of chance, except merchandise
23 wheels and bell jars, the series of prize
4200
1 limitations intended to protect the house
2 against particular losses that, unfortunately,
3 from the perspective of the eleemosynary
4 organizations, the not-for-profits, they look at
5 the prize limitation as a limitation and a
6 restriction on their ability to gain activity,
7 again interest in the -
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Excuse me,
9 Senator. I understand that part. I'm just
10 trying to understand physically how the
11 merchandise -- I think it's called merchandise
12 wheel -- is operated relevant to the prize
13 limit; what is it?
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: What is the
15 wheel itself, Senator?
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. What is
17 it and how does it relate to the prize
18 limitation that you're seeking an increase from
19 1,000 to 3,000? Maybe -- I understand -
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: They are two
21 separate games, Senator.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I know they
23 are. That's what -
4201
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Exact two
2 separate games.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: I know that.
4 What is that game? And how does it relate to the
5 prize limit? Is it the number of times you can
6 give out a prize when you turn a wheel that ends
7 up on a number; is that it? Do I -- was I
8 perhaps correct?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, as
10 you explain, the merchandise wheel is one of
11 those games that's used during the casino nights
12 and the Las Vegas type nights and, yes, as I
13 understand it, it is the wheel that's spun to -
14 all the tickets are sold or chances sold to
15 participate on numbers on that wheel.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right.
17 Thank you, Senator.
18 Would the Senator yield to
19 another question?
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Nozzolio continues to yield.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, Senator,
4202
1 at the same event, use the firemen's bazaar, I
2 think is your example, let's say in some church
3 basement or any other place of that sort, could
4 you have a merchandise wheel, a bell jar at the
5 same same time each with a limit of $3,000 under
6 your bill?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator,
8 as I understand it.
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Could you also
10 at the same place have a bell jar, a wheel and
11 bingo which currently has a limit on it, but has
12 been said here, there's a bill on our calendar
13 that raises that limit to 3,000 as well, but it
14 has not happened so you can't say it's so, but
15 could you have a bell jar, a wheel and bingo at
16 the same place, the same occasion?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm not sure
18 about the licensing for bingo, Senator, but I
19 know that I'll stand on my answer regarding bell
20 jars and wheels. I'm not certain about the laws
21 governing bingo.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I looked
23 in the law, and unless my reading is incorrect,
4203
1 the answer to that question could be asked, and
2 I'm not saying I'm reading it accurately.
3 That's why I asked you. If I knew the answer, I
4 wouldn't ask you, but it seems that, if you read
5 it, it doesn't seem to preclude it.
6 Something else I can't find out
7 one way or the other is, could you have more
8 than one wheel and more than one bell jar at a
9 given event?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Again,
11 Senator, I'm not familiar with the licensing
12 practices of these particular games.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: But, Senator -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Padavan, are you asking him to continue to
16 yield? Does the Senator yield?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Nozzolio yields.
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, the
21 reason I asked you this question, it's very
22 important to know the answer, because while we
23 understand -- if I could preface my question.
4204
1 We understand the desire for these organizations
2 to raise some funds, we at the same time know -
3 I just read the paper today about New Orleans,
4 that when gambling opportunities, whether
5 they're poker machines or whatever they are, get
6 out of hand in terms of the magnitude, the
7 opportunity for the wrong people to get involved
8 because now the stakes are high, presents a real
9 problem.
10 Your bell jars, as I understand
11 it -- again please correct me if I'm wrong -- is
12 you strip off a piece of paper, and if you have
13 three cherries to four lemons, you can win
14 something, which is quite similar to a slot
15 machine where, if you put a coin in and you get
16 three cherries or four lemons, you're going to
17 have an instant pay out. So it's akin of that
18 kind of process.
19 So, Senator, I ask you again. Is
20 it not important for us to know at a given event
21 how much of this activity is going to go on? Are
22 we going to have bingo with a limit up to 3,000,
23 bell jars with more than one perhaps? Are we
4205
1 going to have wheels, more than one at a
2 seemingly innocuous community event which now
3 turns into a mini casino? Don't you -- my
4 question, Senator, don't you think it's
5 important for us to know that?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, the
7 answer to that is not difficult to find. It is
8 in statute. It's relative to occasions allowed
9 that the maximums that we are allowing are
10 maximums relevant to one game, whether those are
11 a series of prizes or one prize in particular,
12 that the single prize limitation is not changed
13 in this loss. It's capped at a dollar amount.
14 It simply allows those charities to have more
15 games during the period of occasion where they
16 obtain their license. The license, Senator, as
17 you know, is a license on a nightly basis. It's
18 not for an extensive period of time. It's on an
19 occasional basis. The license has to be applied
20 for from the charitable organization to the
21 Racing, Wagering Board, that they are well
22 governed, and that, I think, your comparison is
23 one that tries to extend this to the extreme,
4206
1 and that extreme is one that I think you're
2 trying to, in my opinion, view a "Las Vegas
3 Night" at a local fire hall, again, to a visit
4 to a casino in Las Vegas. It's not the same
5 extent by any stretch.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
7 Senator yield to another question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Padavan -- Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Senator does.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, with
14 regard to bell jars, my inquiry to the state
15 Gaming Commission -- go ahead.
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Go ahead,
17 Senator.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: (Continuing) My
19 inquiry of the state Gaming Commission indicates
20 that a bell jar license does not have a time
21 limit associated with it as do other kinds of
22 activities such as bingo where there is, I
23 think, a 12- or 14-hour limit, meaning that the
4207
1 bell jar can be there at some place for an in
2 definite period of time. It is unique to bell
3 jars, from what I'm told.
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, is
5 that a question?
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. My
7 question to you is, are you aware of that fact?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm
9 confused by that question in the sense that I
10 looked at the statute and it states that for the
11 purposes of the game of chance known as bell
12 jar, one occasion shall mean the successive
13 operation of any such bell jar -
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct.
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- which
16 results in the capping on these -- I guess,
17 Senator, you're saying it can extend for more
18 than one day?
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Exactly, to
20 reach $3,000.
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: To the amount
22 limited, yes, sir.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
4208
1 Senator yield?
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Nozzolio yields.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, after they
6 reach the $3,000 payout under your bill, then
7 they can put another bell jar up there, right,
8 am I correct, Senator?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm
10 not sure what the licensing process is.
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, if
12 there's no limitation -- at least I can't find
13 any, not only in your proposal but in the body
14 of law that I made copies of earlier today -- it
15 would indicate that under the prior $1000 limit,
16 that would be the case which would indicate that
17 you could have, if all of this is correct, and I
18 believe it to be so, an ongoing bell jar, a
19 never ending bell jar, as long as you wanted to
20 buy the kits that you buy from these providers
21 that have all of those components in there.
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator -
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: So this is not
4209
1 -- question: Are you aware of the fact that
2 this is not just with regard to bell jars, a
3 singular one-time event that happens
4 periodically over the course of the year, the
5 firemen's bazaar or something like that, but
6 bell jars are unique in that they can occur on
7 an ongoing basis?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: You are right
9 that bell jars have continuous prize limits that
10 must be capped for a particular occasion so that
11 occasion doesn't get replicated throughout the
12 year.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Over and over
14 again?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct. And
17 the fact we are -- with regard to this, you
18 didn't create the process. You're just raising
19 the limit. I understand that, Senator. I wish
20 I was aware of what's been going on when we
21 created this. Was it in 1989 when we did this,
22 when bell jars became part of the continuum of
23 games of chance?
4210
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: As I
2 understand it, Senator, yes.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: In 1989. I
4 don't know where I was then but I obviously
5 wasn't in attendance. But in any event,
6 Senator, we do agree that this can be an ongoing
7 enterprise. How many -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Padavan -
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
11 Senator yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- may
13 interrupt for just a moment?
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Certainly.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Padavan, are you asking Senator Nozzolio to
17 continue to yield?
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, would
19 you yield, please?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Senator continues to yield.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, is
23 there -- in any one occasion which we have
4211
1 together determined can be over an extended
2 period of time in that bell jar, is there any
3 limit as to the given prize? For instance, if
4 you have $3,000, could there be six prizes of
5 $500 in there or can there be 1,000 of one
6 dollar? Is there any limitation in that
7 regard?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, the
9 single prize shall not exceed $500, but I
10 suppose you could have 3,000 one dollar prices.
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: So the single
12 -- the maximum there can be, therefore, from
13 what you're telling me within this 3,000
14 continuum, up to -- you could have six $500
15 prizes in there?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Under the
17 statute -- under the bill we're debating today,
18 Senator, yes. Under the current law, the $1,000
19 limit, there can only be two of those prizes.
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
21 Senator yield? You're saying -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
4212
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: The maximum
3 individual prize was less?
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, Senator.
5 Under the current law, the total -
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is a thousand.
7 I understand what you're saying.
8 Senator, would you yield again,
9 please?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Senator continues to yield, Senator Padavan.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: What is your
13 guesstimate as to the total amount that would
14 have to be wagered or bet to reach the $3,000? I
15 realize it's an estimate, but you must have some
16 feel for it, I would imagine.
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator -
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: What is a
19 normal payout? Is it two to one, three to one or
20 something like that?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm
22 not a normal participant in these games. I
23 really don't know what the odds are.
4213
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm not
2 either. I'm getting an education as we talk
3 along here.
4 Would the Senator yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? The Senator
7 does.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: I just assume,
9 is it a three to one pay out, that for every
10 three pieces of paper you pull out, strip off,
11 that one of them is going to be a winner? Would
12 that be unreasonable?
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Again,
14 Senator, I would only be speculating.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, does it
16 seem reasonable -- if the Senator would yield
17 again.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? The Senator
20 does.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- that the
22 total wagering would have to be at least twice,
23 if not three times the amount of the maximum
4214
1 prize under your proposal of $3,000, so -- which
2 would mean, therefore, that the amount of
3 wagering that would go on would be somewhere,
4 perhaps 6-, $9,000. Is that unreasonable for me
5 to say that?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I think that
7 may be high, Senator, but I don't think -
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: You don't know.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- for the
10 point you're making, it's all that unreasonable.
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
12 Senator yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Nozzolio,, do you continue to yield? The
15 Senator does.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is there an age
17 limitation on who can participate in this?
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator.
19 There is under the statute, in the laws of '89,
20 I believe, that these games are regulated, that
21 they're given -- their occasion -- a license,
22 their one-night license, that no one under the
23 age of 18, I believe, is allowed to participate
4215
1 in -
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator -
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- under the
4 threat of losing the particular license.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, if you
6 would yield to this question.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Nozzolio continues to yield.
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: You did agree
10 -- you seem to indicate that you agreed that
11 this need not be one night. It could be
12 ongoing.
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, a lot
14 of -- just to engage in this colloquy, that as I
15 understand a lot of the not-for-profits have
16 these bell jars filled with slips can be in a
17 location at the firehouse, clubhouse, lodge, and
18 that they're used on a nightly or frequent basis
19 with someone occasionally playing the game.
20 That's the nature of the term "bell jar". I
21 don't know how that came into being and the fact
22 that these are slips of paper that are held in a
23 jar for the participant.
4216
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
2 Senator yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? The Senator
5 does.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: The scenario
7 that you just provided us, is it conceivable
8 that these locations that undoubtedly have other
9 events going on, weddings, gatherings, birthday
10 parties, and so on, that a teen-ager could go
11 over and put down a dollar, whatever they charge
12 for these slips and wager, and that the only
13 person to regulate would be that individual who
14 happened to be there; is that possible?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, it's
16 possible, as that same individual who may be
17 dispensing alcoholic beverages in a licensed
18 establishment as many of these places do have
19 liquor licenses, that the same risk is involved,
20 Senator, that someone under the age of 18 could
21 be served -- under the age of 21 could be served
22 and that, I believe it's in the same type of
23 risk and enforcement process that would go on.
4217
1 In areas across upstate, Senator,
2 the ABC Board on occasion has participated in, I
3 don't want to call them "sting operations" but
4 review procedures to see that everyone that
5 walks into a bar is not under age. I think you
6 have the same type of risk that the seller of
7 those tickets would have, if they sold them to
8 someone under age.
9 Senator, you're correct. I think
10 there's always a risk that someone under the age
11 of the majority could purchase one of these
12 tickets, but that risk is the same risk as
13 someone purchasing alcoholic beverages.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator,
15 let me ask you a question. You mentioned the
16 Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission, Liquor
17 Authority, inspectors, and so on. How many
18 inspectors are there that work for the gaming
19 and wagering commission statewide who would go
20 around to presumably these myriad locations
21 keeping an eye out to ensure that children
22 aren't wagering money in bell jars which will
23 now presumably under your legislation
4218
1 proliferate in quantity because of the increase
2 in revenue?
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator -
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: How many
5 inspectors are there?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm
7 not sure of the number. I am aware of the fact
8 that in the one portion of the state budget that
9 we have enacted this year, the State Operations
10 Budget, there was an increase in the number of
11 inspectors' money increased to allow additional
12 inspectors to be hired but, Senator, I don't
13 have the know-how.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is it 10, is it
15 120, is it 100?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I would only
17 be guessing, sir.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I've
19 never seen one, so I don't know how many there
20 are, is why I asked the question.
21 Senator, how many manufacturers
22 or distributors of these -- I guess you call
23 them a kit, a bell jar kit, whatever the term
4219
1 they use. How many providers of these kits are
2 there -
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I do not know,
4 Senator.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- in this
6 business?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I do not know.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: What do they -
9 do we know what they charge for their services?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No idea,
11 Senator.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
13 Senator yield -- continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Nozzolio continues to yield.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is it fair to
17 say that there are private entrepreneurs who
18 make money, whatever the number of them are -
19 could be a ten, could be a hundred, I have no
20 idea -- who make money by selling these bell jar
21 packages throughout the state or as they
22 operate?
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator.
4220
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: So, therefore,
2 it's a fair statement for me to say that the
3 profit incentive here goes beyond the non-
4 charitable organization that you've referred to
5 here a couple of times?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That may be,
7 Senator, yes.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
9 Senator, very much, and I would like to speak on
10 the bill, if I may.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Padavan, on the bill.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
14 I appreciate Senator Nozzolio's forebearance in
15 answering a number of questions that I had, and
16 frankly, I saw this bill yesterday and I didn't
17 know what a bell jar is and I've tried today to
18 find out what a bell jar is, and I guess we've
19 all learned a few things about bell jars.
20 What I have learned is really a
21 bell jar strip is virtually no different than a
22 slot machine. Instead have putting money in a
23 coin receptacle, pulling the lever and getting
4221
1 an instant payout, you put your hand in a jar
2 and you pull out a piece of paper, and if you
3 win, you get a payout after you give the money
4 to do that.
5 While bell jars are already
6 legal, it is my feeling that when we triple the
7 payout, which is what this bill would do,
8 keeping in mind as the sponsor explained, this
9 is not a one-time event. This is not our
10 typical community charity event. These jars sit
11 there in a different form and a different shape
12 like a slot machine and they could sit there in
13 definitely, and people will come and go and
14 wager money. I guess I presume as he explains,
15 it could be at the edge of a bar or they could
16 be in a V.F.W. hall or firemen's location,
17 anywhere -- anywhere where they seek to get a
18 permit, and the feeling that I -- I have, and
19 what disturbs me is that I think what we are
20 again doing here is developing an inbred
21 reliance on this kind of gambling activity which
22 encourages too many people to be plunking down
23 money for a game that, while it is intended to
4222
1 help worthwhile organizations, in aggregate
2 begin to help -- hurt the community at large,
3 and I think we go too far. That's why there are
4 limits on bingo, in terms of the number of
5 occasions that they can hold them and where they
6 can hold them. That's why there are limits on
7 church and temple-sponsored "Las Vegas Nights"
8 in terms of where they can hold them and when
9 they can hold them, how many times a year, so
10 that you don't let this thing get out of hand,
11 but bell jars are different.
12 And so I suggest to you that
13 while there is an intent on the part of sponsors
14 to help charitable organizations, we're also
15 helping some other people, the manufacturers of
16 these bell jar kits who are in the business of
17 making profit, and if we increase the prize,
18 then their incentive and their desire to go out
19 and sell more and more kits, obviously
20 increases. The whole thing begins to snowball,
21 and I don't think we want to be in the business
22 of doing that.
23 And so I say to all of you who
4223
1 are here, this is an unwise bill. The notion
2 that we could have a bingo parlor with a $3,000
3 limit under one bill proposed, a wheel of
4 merchandise with another $3,000 limit and a bell
5 jar forever with another $3,000 limit, that just
6 keeps going all in the same place is a mistake,
7 and I would like to encourage each of you to
8 vote against it.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
10 recognizes Senator Dollinger on the bill.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
12 President, would the sponsor yield to a
13 question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Nozzolio, do you yield to a question from
16 Senator Dollinger?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Senator does.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
21 President, during the discussion with Senator
22 Padavan which was very enlightening on this
23 bill, I read the sponsor's memo, and I just -
4224
1 my question is, you make a reference here about
2 Canadian organizations that are sponsoring bell
3 jar games, and that there's a claim that we're
4 losing patrons to Canadian organizations, isn't
5 that correct?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's my
8 understanding that you have to go to Canada then
9 to be in a bell jar game, isn't that correct?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, Senator,
11 it's not correct.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President, I just didn't hear the answer.
14 Excuse me?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I said, no,
16 Senator, it is not correct, that you can -- this
17 is a legal activity within New York State.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But my
19 question is -- and again through you, Mr.
20 President, if the sponsor would continue to
21 yield. The point that's made here is that we're
22 losing patrons to Canadian organizations. As I
23 heard the bell jar game described by Senator
4225
1 Padavan in his his colloquy with you, wherever
2 this little jar sits, if it's a Canadian
3 organization, it's got to sit somewhere in
4 Canada, and so presumably, someone has to go
5 into Canada to use the bell jar there or am I
6 mistaken?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, Senator,
8 let me try to clarify. I said that in the memo,
9 we were competing or those charitable
10 organizations in New York State, particularly
11 those next to the Canadian border, Senator Daly
12 mentioned Lewiston as one, has -- have a
13 difficult time competing with a similar game
14 with expanded prize limits within just a few
15 minutes of travel time away.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Dollinger.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr.
19 President, if the sponsor would just yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? The Senator
22 does.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My under
4226
1 standing of your response is that there are
2 actually people in Lewiston, as Senator Daly -
3 who are going into Canada solely to play bell
4 jar games?
5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I
6 think it's more a question of having the
7 reality, not just in -- along the Niagara
8 frontier, but also within the central part of
9 our state now that the Indian casino gaming is a
10 reality and will be a reality not only in
11 Oneida, but by this time next year in the North
12 Country, in western New York and southwestern
13 New York, possibly even southern New York by
14 Indian tribes having similar types of casino
15 gaming.
16 The Canadians have an identical
17 bell jar type gaming that does compete certainly
18 with "Las Vegas Nights" that are held by the
19 charitable organizations in western New York,
20 but it's a question of having the same charities
21 lose patronage, lose participation in casino
22 gaming nights that they do sponsor because of
23 these other enterprises that are continually
4227
1 gaming across the state and across the Canadian
2 border.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
4 you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Sure.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator does.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So I
11 understand. You don't know how many patrons or
12 how much income has been lost by not-for-profit
13 organizations in the borders of Niagara County
14 or Erie County that are near Canada as suggested
15 in the memo; you don't know what that number
16 is?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we
18 had, to answer your question, representatives of
19 the Elks, the Moose, the FASNY testify last
20 fall, that they are feeling losses in their -
21 from their member organizations' handle on those
22 particular casino gaming nights in those areas
23 that we talked about, those close to the
4228
1 Canadian border and those close to the Indian
2 reservation now that allows casino gaming. They
3 didn't have numbers in terms of how many
4 travelers went to Canada to play bell jar, but
5 they did have a very strong sense. These are
6 representatives of those organizations I
7 mentioned, had a very strong sense that they
8 were losing patronage as a result of having
9 prize limits that are outdated.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
11 through you, Mr. President, if I could ask the
12 sponsor to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? The Senator
15 yields.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, is it
17 fair to say that what we're doing with this bill
18 is we're allowing not-for-profit entities to
19 compete with the gambling institutions in places
20 like Turning Stone for patronage? For public
21 spirited not-for-profit purposes, we are going
22 to condone gambling the way Indians are now
23 allowed to do it on a broader scale?
4229
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, to
2 respond to your question, the word compete is
3 your word. I don't think it's exactly our
4 concept, but it's a sense of trying to bring
5 more customers, to lose less customers, to those
6 gambling entities. There's only so much
7 gambling dollars that is within communities; and
8 that those communities, particularly within the
9 orbit within the axis of those enterprises you
10 mentioned, do have a competition problem as
11 described by the representatives. However, I
12 don't think you are going to see a night to
13 night competition. These are occasional
14 ventures. They're not every night as you see in
15 the casinos.
16 So competition is the word that I
17 don't want to use, but I do want to say that the
18 representatives want more of an opportunity to
19 attract participants at their functions, and
20 that that attraction on their occasional nights
21 seems to be waning because of this additional
22 daily gaming enterprise in Canada and on the
23 Indian reservation.
4230
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President, on the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Dollinger on the bill.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: First, Mr.
6 President, I want to thank my colleague, Senator
7 Padavan for his insightful questioning as well
8 as comments. He's changed my opinion about this
9 bill.
10 Secondly, I understand the
11 motivation of the sponsor and the need to attend
12 to the issues for our not-for-profit
13 organizations who are looking for a source of
14 funds. But it seems to me that what the sponsor
15 is suggesting -- and though perhaps he did not
16 use the word competition, that's clearly what
17 we're going to do. By increasing the limit on
18 bell jars, we're going to create a form of
19 legalized gambling which is going to benefit
20 not-for-profit organizations, which means that
21 we're going to have lower end gambling in this
22 state, not in a casino variety but in the local
23 VFW hall; or whether it's in the local fire hall
4231
1 or the church basement, nonetheless, we're going
2 to have gambling.
3 And I think Senator Padavan's
4 admonition to this group to think long and hard
5 before we countenance the creation of this new
6 strata of lower end gambling, which not only
7 falls under the not-for-profit but also has the
8 merchandisers of bell jar kits and other things
9 hiding behind it, I think we'd be well advised
10 to make sure that if we want to do that that we
11 know that that's exactly what we're doing and
12 we're not doing it under the disguise of simply
13 increasing the amount of bell jar winnings.
14 I'd point out I was at the
15 Turning Stone Casino. I played the little bell
16 jar game, and I bought the tickets, and I lost,
17 but I was clearly gambling. And in my judgment,
18 if we're going to do that, I think we need to
19 take a broader look at it. I don't think you do
20 it under the disguise of doing it this way by
21 increasing these amounts.
22 I think there's some real
23 dangers, as Senator Padavan pointed out, in this
4232
1 proposal and I think we will substantially
2 increase the scope of lower end gambling in this
3 state by passing this initiative.
4 I'll be in the negative, Mr.
5 President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
7 recognizes Senator Stachowski.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
9 President. I rise to stand in support of this
10 bill. Having just been at a FASNY dinner last
11 week in our area, I found out what an important
12 issue this is to FASNY, this increase, in
13 particular, in the bell jar game.
14 Yes, the bell jar game is
15 constantly available in the fire hall. And what
16 this increase in limits will do is, obviously,
17 if the limits are higher, that means it takes
18 more dollars to get to those limits, and that
19 helps the fire company raise more money through
20 a choice form of fund raising for them.
21 Rather than having tax dollars
22 put into their fire company for operation, they
23 allow people that come to the fire hall,
4233
1 basically, a lot of times fire hall members who
2 use this as a form entertainment by choice.
3 The fact is that if they're
4 sitting in the volunteer fire company, to give
5 you an example -- and not to make light of it,
6 but to give you an example of how this operates
7 is, say, they are in the fire hall for the
8 evening, having a couple of sociable Cokes or
9 beers or whatever they have with their friends
10 while they are there, and instead of playing a
11 video game where there's absolutely no reward
12 but there is entertainment, they play the bell
13 jar, where the prizes aren't immense. It's more
14 of a form of entertainment. They enjoy ripping
15 the strips.
16 And, granted, it is gambling at a
17 small level, but it's not the kind of addictive
18 gambling I think that everybody is building this
19 major concern over. I believe that if that were
20 the case that the fire company who is such a
21 backbone in every community would be much more
22 concerned about this, and it wouldn't be such a
23 priority for them.
4234
1 I think that the wheel increase
2 will help them have a better game of chance
3 where once in a while through a fluke some of
4 their Monte Carlo nights the different
5 organizations have end much earlier because they
6 hit the limit real fast, and this will give them
7 a little bit more chance of the local church
8 maybe raising a few more dollars and I don't
9 think at anybody's expense that their family
10 will go without eating for that week because
11 they had gone hog wild, for example, which they
12 could do at a casino at a higher stake gambling
13 but in this church style, not-for-profit style,
14 and in particular in the FASNY position which
15 mainly relates to bell jar.
16 I think that this is a good
17 fund-raising vehicle for these organizations. I
18 don't think it's the menace to society that
19 possibly other people would feel about casino
20 gambling. I think this is a good bill. It
21 helps the volunteer organizations and volunteer
22 fire companies, in particular, achieve a goal
23 that they are trying to do; and, that is, to
4235
1 keep their fire company and their equipment
2 up-to-date, to make sure that they are better
3 equipped and fully prepared to fight fires and
4 handle emergencies in their community.
5 And if this vehicle helps them to
6 do that, then I think we would be foolish to
7 fall under the guise of organized casino
8 gambling to stop this bill, which this bill
9 isn't organized casino gambling. This is low
10 level entertainment-type gambling. Granted it's
11 gambling, but it's the vehicle that these
12 organizations use to make sure that they can
13 carry out the services that they carry out for
14 the community, and I will be voting aye.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on Calendar
17 Number 814?
18 (There was no response.)
19 Chair recognizes Senator Nozzolio
20 to close.
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr.
22 President. My colleagues. I certainly
23 appreciate those sincere comments raised on
4236
1 behalf of this measure. I also appreciate
2 Senator Stachowski's comments in favor of this
3 measure.
4 I want to clear up for my
5 colleagues who may have listened to Senator
6 Dollinger that this is not a new form of
7 gambling. This gambling, this gaming exists
8 today and has existed at least since 1989
9 legally throughout the charitable,
10 not-for-profit community, and that it is
11 existing. It's a reality. It's something that
12 we are not altering or creating by passing this
13 legislation.
14 What we are doing is increasing
15 the value of prizes so that those charitable
16 organizations like the fire companies, like the
17 not-for-profits close to -- particularly those
18 close to the Canadian border or close to Indian
19 reservations that now or will have gaming in the
20 future are will be able to compete.
21 The presidents of the Elks, the
22 Moose, FASNY, came to the table asking for help
23 because their membership is having difficulty in
4237
1 these troubled times raising additional funds.
2 Unless this Legislature wants to appropriate
3 more money to the fire companies, as I know we
4 all would like to do but because of budget
5 restrictions can not, we must and have been
6 asking those companies and those organizations
7 to fund-raise, and this is a fund-raising
8 enterprise. It's a fund-raising enterprise for
9 them, and we should look at it in those terms.
10 This is not creating casinos.
11 This does not extend the form of games that are
12 already available. That's all this does is
13 allow those games which exist today to be able
14 to be more enjoyed in terms of competition and
15 bring more money into the coffers of those
16 charitable organizations who we all know do so
17 much for our state.
18 Mr. President. Thank you for the
19 opportunity to present this bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
21 will read the last section, Calendar Number 814.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
4238
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
7 the negative on Calendar Number 814 are Senators
8 DiCarlo, Dollinger, Gold, Hannon, Holland,
9 Johnson, LaValle, Leichter, Onorato, Tully, also
10 Senator Cook. Ayes 40. Nays 12.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
12 passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 829, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
15 4084A, Environmental Conservation Law.
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
19 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: As I read
21 it, this bill would allow DEC to charge a fee
22 for their information services when private
23 parties are asking for environmental audits, and
4239
1 the only plus I can see is that it might make it
2 easier and faster for the DEC in that they might
3 be able to hire some additional people. But for
4 the most part, this is not a good bill because
5 there are too many community groups and
6 not-for-profits, people very concerned with the
7 issues of environment that will be priced out of
8 the market because it's going to be costly to
9 obtain this information.
10 This is sort of a double hit.
11 This is not only an environmental hit, but it's
12 a freedom of information hit, as well.
13 Generally, I think we believe here that public
14 information should be liberally available to
15 everybody interested in obtaining information
16 concerning the government. And we look on
17 environmental audits as being beneficial, and we
18 believe they should be encouraged. And, you
19 know, our citizens and our public interest
20 groups shouldn't have to spend money to make
21 this -- get this information, to have it be made
22 available to them.
23 And I don't think we want
4240
1 information to be available only to those who
2 are able to pay -- you know, have the ability to
3 pay. One of the foundations of open government,
4 I believe, is our Freedom of Information Law
5 here in New York State, and it's the way the
6 people hold us, the government, accountable to
7 them.
8 And I think public documents
9 should be affordable, and I don't believe the
10 DEC should be guarding this information. It
11 should be as available as possible, and we
12 already have a small charge of 25 cents for each
13 sheet that we reproduce, and I think increasing
14 the fees only makes it increasingly more
15 difficult for citizens to avail themselves of
16 what is their right to public information.
17 So I'm going to vote against
18 this. And the EPL is opposed to this. The
19 NYPIRG is opposed, and I will be voting against.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
21 will read the last section of Calendar 829.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
4241
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
7 the negative on Calendar Number 829 are Senators
8 Espada, Galiber, Gold, Goodman, Jones, Kruger,
9 Leichter, Markowitz, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
10 Present, and Solomon. Ayes 40. Nays 12.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 956, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
15 1240A, an act to amend the General Obligations
16 Law.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos, an explanation has been asked for.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
21 This bill, which passed last year with five
22 negative votes, amends the General Obligations
23 Law by returning the assumption of risk doctrine
4242
1 to certain civil lawsuits.
2 In an action for damages if the
3 defendant shows that the injury sustained by the
4 plaintiff arose during the commission or
5 attempted commission by the plaintiff of certain
6 enumerated crimes and that the actions of the
7 defendant were justified pursuant to Article 35
8 of the Penal Law, then the plaintiff is deemed
9 to assume the risk of all injury coming from the
10 encounter with the victim and that proof shall
11 constitute a complete defense to the action.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. Nays 2.
20 Senators Galiber and Gold recorded in the
21 negative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
4243
1 Senator Dollinger.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
3 President. I was out of the chamber when the
4 vote was taken on 829. Could I have unanimous
5 consent to be recorded in the negative on that,
6 829.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8 objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded in
9 the negative on Calendar 829.
10 Senator Leichter.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
12 President. May I have unanimous consent to be
13 recorded in the negative on Calendar 301.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
15 objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in
16 the negative on Calendar Number 301.
17 Clerk will continue to read the
18 controversial calendar.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1004, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number
21 3302A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
22 Law.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
4244
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Maltese, an explanation has been asked for on
3 Calendar Number 1004 by Senator Gold.
4 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
5 This bill amends the Vehicle and Traffic Law in
6 relation to directing the Commissioner of Motor
7 Vehicles to issue plates bearing the flag of the
8 United States of America.
9 I think the fact that we had with
10 us today the Mountain Division makes this
11 license plate even more symbolic.
12 This bill simply permits those
13 persons who purchase automobiles where 75
14 percent of the parts are manufactured in the
15 United States and where the automobiles are 100
16 percent assembled in the United States, they can
17 elect to purchase special plates with the flag
18 of our nation.
19 This bill came up previously in
20 1992 and passed this house, but at the time
21 there was no charge affixed thereto. Now this
22 goes along with the majority of other what they
23 call vanity plates and now charges $25.
4245
1 The so-called onerous burden of
2 ascertaining which automobiles fit the criteria
3 indicated has already been taken care of by a
4 bill that some would call onerous that has
5 already been passed by the Congress of the
6 United States America and is already included in
7 the law in the U.S. Code, 15 U.S. Code Section
8 2003.
9 The concept itself and the
10 original United States code revision which was
11 passed in 1992 and enacted into law, the
12 American Auto Labeling Act, has been fully
13 supported and endorsed by the UAW in a very
14 lengthy memorandum.
15 I think at a time that the loss
16 of jobs and so much manufacturing and so many
17 products are being made in foreign countries,
18 this simply gives those persons who choose to
19 purchase an automobile where the majority of its
20 parts and where its completely assembled in the
21 United States an opportunity to indicate that on
22 their license plate. It also, if they fit
23 within this criteria, gives them an opportunity
4246
1 to display the flag of our country on their
2 license plate.
3 The recent articles in the New
4 York Times and other newspapers have indicated
5 more and more -- as we see so many foreign
6 countries moving further and further into our
7 economy and controlling greater and greater
8 segments of our economy, more and more people
9 according to recent research polls, and I would
10 like to quote from one article in the New York
11 Times with very small print, I might add,
12 Yanklevich Partners, Incorporated, found that 61
13 percent of Americans said they feel guilty when
14 purchasing non-American products up from 49
15 percent in 1989; and a similar poll done by an
16 outfit called Demand Factors, Incorporated, a
17 research firm -- they conduct market surveys for
18 domestic clothing and textiles makers found that
19 38 percent of women under 35 years of age check
20 labels of the country of origin when shopping,
21 up from 23 percent, and that of those who look
22 for the "Made in USA" label, about 90 percent
23 buy American-made goods.
4247
1 Now, the only point I'm making
2 there is that this information is already
3 readily available at the time of the purchase of
4 an automobile. What this legislation seeks to
5 do is take advantage of that information with no
6 fiscal impact to the state and permit the
7 purchasers or the owners of automobiles who fit
8 within the criteria to purchase a plate with the
9 American flag.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Maltese
13 yield to a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Maltese, do you yield?
16 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 yields, Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: I'm looking at a
20 list. I don't know if it's the most current or
21 what, but, for example, I'm told that the
22 Mercury Grand Marquis is manufactured in
23 America, in Western New York, as a matter of
4248
1 fact, but its parts are assembled in Canada.
2 And you are saying, if I understand this bill,
3 that if people in Western New York who work on
4 these cars and feel very proud of the work they
5 do want to buy the car and they are also proud
6 of America, they have to make a choice between
7 buying a Grand Marquis manufactured in New York
8 or buying another car so they can have a flag on
9 their license plate?
10 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
11 I imagine that those persons working in these
12 industries, the majority of them, might be
13 included in the 1.4 million active and retired
14 members of the UAW, and their union has endorsed
15 the concept. They have to make perhaps a choice
16 as to whether they purchase that particular car
17 which would enable them to, in turn, purchase
18 this license plate or perhaps affix it in some
19 other manner to their automobile, a sticker or
20 what have you.
21 I think the criteria is a fair
22 one. For those persons who wish to buy made in
23 America solely or made in America the majority
4249
1 of their product, they are making the choice,
2 and they are factoring into that choice economy,
3 the amount they wish to spend, and the type of
4 automobile they wish to purchase. That's just
5 another factor.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield
7 to a question?
8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Maltese, do you yield? Senator yields.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I just
12 want to clarify the record. I don't show any
13 memos in support of this bill by the
14 organization you referred to. Is there a memo.
15 SENATOR MALTESE: No, I did not
16 receive a memo.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Because I know I
18 have a memo from the auto dealers, which is back
19 in, I guess, '92 when we debated this. I don't
20 have a memo from them this year, either. But I
21 didn't want the record to indicate that the
22 union was in favor of your bill, and there was a
23 memo that I didn't know about. There is no such
4250
1 memo.
2 Well, Mr. President, on the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Gold on the bill.
5 SENATOR GOLD: There are
6 obviously a lot of questions I can ask Senator
7 Maltese. We all know the questions and all know
8 the answers, and I don't have to prolong it.
9 The reason I think there was so
10 much overwhelming opposition in 1992 is because
11 we really are mixing apples and oranges. It's
12 just so easy to stand up here and talk about
13 patriotism and then mix that into seventeen
14 other different areas.
15 There are people in this country,
16 good loyal Americans, who work for companies
17 that happen to be foreign companies, a lot of
18 them, doing business over here and even
19 manufacturing over here; or that are American
20 companies that have contracts with foreign
21 countries, and I thought that's what was
22 happening. I mean the world economy is becoming
23 a world -- a world economy.
4251
1 It's funny. I, at one point,
2 received a call from a newspaper and said,
3 "Senator, you supported one of those bills,
4 'Buy America bills'; and what kind of car do
5 you have?" And I said, "I have...," and I told
6 him. It's an American-made car. And then they
7 said, "Well, we came up with -- there's a
8 motorcycle in your family and it's -- it's a
9 Honda." And that -- and, you know, right away,
10 I was supposed to get embarrassed. Well,
11 thankfully I have a son who's brighter than I
12 am. And Stevie said, "Hey, Dad, don't get
13 upset." He said, "Sure it's a Honda, but it's
14 made in America."
15 Now, I mean -- I guess I
16 shouldn't have bought or we shouldn't have
17 bought a Honda because it had a name that wasn't
18 American enough or you can't take a chance.
19 Senator Maltese, I know you
20 probably mean very well, but this bill doesn't
21 deal with the reality of life in America today.
22 There isn't one member of this body who does not
23 own some electrical appliance that was
4252
1 manufactured in the Far East, and I think that
2 there is not one person who owns such an
3 appliance who is not a great American. What
4 does one have to do with the other?
5 And I doubt very, very much
6 whether the members of this house and their
7 families walk around the department stores and
8 walk around their neighborhoods and do the kind
9 of nationalistic selections that we're talking
10 about. And I understand that when it comes to
11 clothing we have the ILGW, and we are all very
12 careful about buying clothes that are made in
13 America and we're all very careful, but there
14 are some realities of life. We have more and
15 more contact between America and Mexico and
16 America and Canada and Japanese companies that
17 are coming over here.
18 I took a trip this weekend, and
19 we were listening to a book on the radio. You
20 know, they have these recorded books now. I
21 think it was Rising Sun. Some people say it was
22 nothing but a Japanese bashing book. But the
23 fact is if you listen to this stuff and if the
4253
1 things they say are accurate, we have Japanese
2 money all over America. Are we telling them not
3 to bring their money, not to employ Americans?
4 And as a result of the
5 disasterous Reagan-Bush years where we have
6 people out of work, are we telling people who
7 were out of work, "Go to work but make sure who
8 the ownership of that company is"? And you are
9 not a real American if you don't work for a
10 company that's at least 75 percent owned or a
11 company that's 100 percent owned -- what kind of
12 values are we giving people?
13 In my opinion, any New Yorker who
14 wants to pay a fee and have an American flag on
15 their license plate is a distinguished New
16 Yorker and a distinguished American and they
17 ought to be able to do that. I mean this is the
18 same house that says to young people we're going
19 to mandate that at your college graduation you
20 got to pledge allegiance and sing the Star
21 Spangled Banner.
22 And we've said to you, on those
23 occasions, we should have a society that makes
4254
1 them proud and has them doing it because it's
2 the right thing, not because big brother is
3 telling them. And now we have big brother who
4 is going to say that it's not even enough that
5 on your license plate you don't want the name of
6 your county or your city or your baseball team
7 or your football team. You don't want any of
8 that. You want the American flag.
9 "But, mister or miss or missis,
10 you can't have the American flag unless your car
11 was 75 percent, and I don't care whether or not
12 you bought it from an American dealer. I don't
13 care whether Americans have made money on this
14 all the way up and down the line. Patriotism is
15 100 percent." As a matter of fact, in this bill
16 it's not even 100 percent. "Patriotism is 75
17 percent or it's nothing."
18 And, Senator Maltese, if I had to
19 take a lie detector so that they were monitoring
20 my response, and somebody said to you is Serph
21 Maltese a great American? And I'd say yes.
22 That's not the issue. This bill takes concepts
23 and mixes them up for no reason.
4255
1 I would like to be able to drive
2 down the highway, Senator, and see as many flags
3 as I can on the license plates of the cars of
4 this state, and that would be wonderful, and I
5 think that that showing of patriotism would mean
6 a lot more to the country than setting up the
7 selectivity based upon whether or not there is
8 an American company employing American people
9 that may have some contract with Canada, or what
10 have you, in order to put a final product
11 together.
12 I think that your heart is a good
13 American heart, but I think this bill goes in a
14 really absurd direct.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
16 recognizes Senator Stachowski.
17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
18 President, on this bill. In 1992, the idea of
19 the American flag on the license plate was a
20 great idea, but this particular bill was
21 flawed. And here we are again, in 1994, and now
22 we use a federal piece of legislation that the
23 UAW endorsed to say that that UAW endorsement of
4256
1 that federal legislation means that the UAW is
2 in favor of this kind of bill and that they
3 would all be for it and that we, as good
4 supporters, for example, of the UAW or as great
5 Americans because we had soldiers in front
6 today, should vote for this bill to put license
7 plates on a certain listed number of cars.
8 Well, unfortunately, a couple of
9 things have changed since 1992 but this bill
10 being bad is not one of them. But the plant
11 that I spoke of in 1992, the Woodlawn Stamping
12 Plant for Ford Motor Company, is no longer in my
13 district. It's Senator Volker's districts.
14 And quite possibly, he would be
15 the one up this year making this speech, because
16 he would be concerned about that plant if we
17 took this to what Senator Maltese said should be
18 the conclusion that since the UAW supports this
19 bill and we should all be wanting to get these
20 American flags and we should only buy cars that
21 can qualify for this American flag, then in a
22 short time, the people wouldn't be buying the
23 Crown Victorias and the Grand Marquis, and they
4257
1 would no longer need to be making all those
2 fenders and doors and hoods and trunk lids in
3 the Woodlawn Stamping Plant.
4 And since they would no longer be
5 needing to make all those parts, then we would
6 no longer be needing all those people to be
7 working there, and I guess it would be more
8 important to make sure that the people making
9 that Toyota somewhere in another state would be
10 having their jobs because people would be buying
11 more of those American made Toyotas to get this
12 American flag on their car and be proud that
13 they're driving that Toyota made in America, and
14 that it's too bad that all those people in
15 Woodlawn that used to work there in that plant
16 that live throughout Western New York would no
17 longer be working because we shouldn't be buying
18 Grand Marquis and Crown Victorias because they
19 don't fall under by Senator Maltese's definition
20 for this particular bill.
21 And, also, it would be
22 interesting to say that you wanted to buy an
23 Escort, which does come on that list. But,
4258
1 unfortunately, when you bought that Escort,
2 neither you or the dealer looked inside that
3 little registration letter and found out that
4 that particular escort was one of the list that
5 are made -- I mean assembled in Mexico. Because
6 there are Escorts that are assembled in Mexico.
7 And if you had the misfortune of buying that
8 without checking and decided a year later or a
9 few months later that you were going to spend
10 the extra money to get that American flag
11 because you're a proud American, you couldn't do
12 it because you picked the wrong Escort.
13 So for those reasons and the
14 simplicity of it is it would be interesting if
15 some of these soldiers had the opportunity to
16 see their fathers lose their job at that
17 Woodlawn plant or some other similar plant in
18 the State of New York because people stopped
19 buying that car because it's not on the list.
20 And I'm sure the UAW didn't
21 support this particular bill when they have all
22 their members working in plants that make those
23 parts for cars that are assembled, say, in
4259
1 Canada -- or assembled in Mexico, but in
2 particular in my interest in Canada. They
3 wouldn't want to see any of those people lose
4 their jobs. As a matter of fact, they want to
5 see more people buy Crown Victorias and more
6 people buy Grand Marquis.
7 And maybe a bill like this won't
8 cost any jobs, but maybe it would stimulate jobs
9 if we were saying let's make sure we're doing
10 things to help New York State's economy, since
11 this is New York State and since those plants
12 are in New York State and do make parts for cars
13 that unfortunately don't qualify for bills like
14 this one. Maybe if we thought about those
15 things, we wouldn't bring bills like this to the
16 floor that -- as remote as it is, may not cost
17 anybody anything, but if people stopped buying
18 those particular cars and you cost one person a
19 job, well, then it's not worth the $25 that
20 somebody is paying to get the American flag on
21 that license plate that they will qualify for.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair
23 recognizes Senator Leichter.
4260
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
2 President. Would Senator Maltese yield?
3 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5 Maltese yields.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is there
7 anything in your bill that would prevent people
8 from putting an American flag decal on their
9 car?
10 SENATOR MALTESE: Absolutely not.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: So you could
12 have a car that's 100 percent of foreign
13 origin, a Mercedes, but you could put an
14 American flag right next to the license plate;
15 is that right?
16 SENATOR MALTESE: Well,
17 conversant with any rules and regulations about
18 obscuring windshields or portions of the car,
19 you can plaster the care with American flags,
20 back, front, hood, fenders and what have you.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right.
22 So, Senator, as a practical matter, you can
23 display an American flag, as you ought to be
4261
1 entitled to display. You wouldn't have it on
2 your license plate, but you could have it right
3 next to the license plate; is that correct?
4 SENATOR MALTESE: That's correct.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
6 on the bill.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Leichter on the bill.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. You
10 know, I want to say to my good friend, Senator
11 Stachowski, I wouldn't worry about any jobs
12 being lost as a result of this bill because, as
13 a practical matter, I just can't see somebody
14 going and shopping for a car that would be -
15 sees a car they like and it's got 35 percent
16 foreign material in it and saying, "I'm not
17 going buy this car because now I won't be able
18 to show the American flag on my license plate."
19 Senator, I think it's
20 well-intentioned. You are obviously concerned
21 about manufacturing in the United States and so
22 on. But, really, this bill doesn't do anything,
23 and the very fact that you could put a decal
4262
1 with the American flag right next to the license
2 plate or anywhere else on the car, as you
3 should.
4 And I want to say that I think
5 Senator Gold made some very pertinent comments
6 about the fact that we're dealing with a world
7 economy and that all of us have goods that were
8 made in other countries. Obviously, we also
9 export very widely to other countries. In fact,
10 New York State is a net exporter of goods. We
11 have a real interest in seeing a furtherance of
12 international commerce.
13 So, Senator, with all due
14 respect, I think maybe Senator Gold said it best
15 when he said we would like to see everybody show
16 the American flag even if they drive a
17 Mercedes.
18 Mr. President. I'm going to vote
19 in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair
21 recognizes Senator Dollinger.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
23 Senator yield to a couple questions.
4263
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
2 Maltese, do you yield to Senator Dollinger?
3 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Maltese yields.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, in
7 reading through this bill I'm just intrigued by
8 the use of the term parts. What does that term
9 mean? And how would it apply for a stereo
10 system, which, of course, has all those little
11 doodads and transistors and I don't know what
12 you call'em, circuit boards with all those
13 little individual parts, most of which are not
14 made in the United States or a major portion of
15 which are not. What constitutes a part the
16 whole circuit board or all the little pieces on
17 the circuit board?
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
19 Fortunately, the reply or the answer to Senator
20 Dollinger's question has been taken care of by
21 some other, I assume, bean counters who have put
22 together the legislation applying that I
23 referred to earlier. The labels are already
4264
1 available and the certificates are available by
2 the automakers, and they label by percentage the
3 portion of the parts and their portion of the
4 place of manufacture; so, therefore, the
5 percentage is already worked out in the federal
6 legislation and is already enumerated
7 specifically for each automobile by the serial
8 number of the automobile.
9 As to what differentiation they
10 put on if a person elects on have so-called
11 optional equipment and what have you, I haven't
12 the slightest idea.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Again
14 through you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Maltese, do you continue to yield? Senator
17 does.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does your
19 bill make specific reference to that parts
20 catalog or inventory that's part of the federal
21 law?
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
23 It makes no specific reference to the federal
4265
1 legislation other than referring to a statement
2 certifying that such vehicle is constructed of
3 not less than the 75 percent of the parts
4 manufactured in the United States of America.
5 So I imagine that the vehicle would require the
6 manufacturer to provide the owner of such motor
7 vehicle with a manufacturer's statement of motor
8 vehicle parts content and place of assemblage.
9 And it's included right in the legislation,
10 rather than referring to a specific code section
11 or a specific federal legislation which would
12 then have to be changed or revised if the
13 applicable federal legislation was changed.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
15 you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Maltese, do you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 yields.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You also use
22 in the statute the term completely assembled.
23 Again, my question is if the stereo system or
4266
1 the electronic motor that goes into driving the
2 window up and down or the air conditioning
3 system or the antilock brake system, if any of
4 the computer components of those systems are
5 assembled outside the United States, they
6 wouldn't fall within the definition of being
7 completely assembled within the United States
8 under your statute. Is that correct?
9 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
10 The term "completely assembled" does not refer
11 to the portions of the parts. I believe the
12 parts that Senator Dollinger refers to would
13 come under the first section which would be
14 under the 75 percent exclusion. The completely
15 assembled refers to the assembling of the parts
16 themselves into the complete automobile.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But if any
18 portion of the assembly of any component of the
19 automobile is done out of the United States,
20 they wouldn't qualify under your law; is that
21 correct?
22 SENATOR MALTESE: That's correct.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A final
4267
1 question.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Maltese, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 yields.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just -- on
8 page 2 of the bill, and it talks about a dealer
9 providing the purchaser with the manufacturer's
10 statement. What happens if there is a resale of
11 the automobile? Is there any obligation on the
12 part of the seller to transfer that warranty
13 from the dealer onto the purchaser?
14 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
15 The appropriate percentage of the parts or where
16 the assembly, that would not change. The
17 manufacturer would have issued a certificate
18 applicable only to the serial number of the
19 car. If the seller would transfer the car that
20 wouldn't change as far as where the car was
21 assembled or the requisite 75 percent.
22 So while there is no requirement
23 on the part of the manufacturer to supply the
4268
1 certificate, it would seem that if that's
2 important to a purchaser, he would undoubtedly
3 be able to request such a certificate from the
4 manufacturer.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay, but -
6 SENATOR MALTESE: But it is not
7 mandated.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Maltese, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 yields.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: There is no
14 provision that requires the seller of the used
15 automobile to transfer that certificate to the
16 purchaser of the used vehicle so that the
17 purchaser could then go out and get the license
18 plate. Isn't that correct?
19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
20 There is no requirement, but it would seem that
21 that registration, if you will, would always
22 apply to the automobile; and the purchaser would
23 at that time, since he falls within the confines
4269
1 of the statute, be able to apply for the
2 American flag license plate.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One final
4 question, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Maltese, do you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 yields.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If the owner
11 of the vehicle is in an automobile accident,
12 destroys the front end and then it's all rebuilt
13 with foreign parts, do they still qualify for
14 the license based on the original manufacturer's
15 certification that it was both assembled
16 entirely in the United States and that all the
17 parts were 75 percent created in the United
18 States?
19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
20 I imagine that the appropriate situation would
21 have to be resolved on a question of common
22 sense, and I supposed we would have to enact
23 common sense into the law, which sadly is often
4270
1 lacking. So I guess if we start replacing
2 pieces of the automobile, it would depend how
3 much of the automobile ends up being replaced.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr.
5 President, on the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Dollinger on the bill.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President. There was a highly publicized
10 incident in the Town of Greece, which I
11 represent, which drew a lot of the issues
12 addressed by Senator Maltese into sharp focus.
13 The Town of Greece was going to
14 buy a piece of equipment, road equipment, and it
15 was manufactured by a company called Komatsu.
16 And at the time, the town board decided that
17 they shouldn't be buying a Japanese product.
18 They should, instead, buy an American product,
19 so they cancelled the bid with Komatsu and, I
20 believe, bought a good old fashioned John Deere
21 piece of equipment, a wonderful piece of
22 equipment with a well-established, historical
23 American name associated with it.
4271
1 Unfortunately, they did a little
2 bit of research and found out that the Komatsu
3 product was actually mostly manufactured in the
4 United States, about 50 percent, and the John
5 Deere product was actually about 90 percent
6 manufactured outside the United States.
7 The danger of attaching labels to
8 products and saying this is an American-made
9 product that will remain an American-made
10 product, it's an American-made -- assembled,
11 completely assembled in the United States -- the
12 reason why I brought up the point about the
13 computers is because there are lots of circuit
14 boards in cars these days, many of which may not
15 originate in the United States, many of which
16 have all kinds of little tiny parts, which I
17 guess should be counted the same weight that a
18 fender or a body or the driveshaft should be
19 accounted.
20 I guess I join my colleagues in
21 being wary of attaching labels to specific goods
22 and making declarations that we are only going
23 to recognize those automobiles that are made
4272
1 exclusively assembled in the United States and
2 made 75 percent in American parts. My view is
3 very simple. I think there is a wonderful
4 symbol of America already located on our license
5 plates, proudly affixed to all the state license
6 plates in this state which I think symbolizes a
7 commitment to America, the love of America, the
8 America that most of us know, the great
9 tradition of tolerance, a great tradition of
10 pride and patriotism. It's called the Statue of
11 Liberty. And I think that's an appropriate
12 symbol of America. It's already located on the
13 license plate. We don't need this bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
15 recognizes Senator Solomon.
16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr.
17 President. I think Senator Gold touched upon
18 the issue, and I think everyone else has touched
19 upon the issue. To basically say that this car
20 was made in America where in fact we have
21 American-made cars, cars that we believe are
22 American made such as Ford Motor products or
23 Mercury Motor products, and not label them as
4273
1 "Made in America" is ludicrous.
2 Just as you can go out today and
3 buy an RCA television, which is not made in
4 America, or a Sylvania television. In fact, the
5 only television, today, made in America is by
6 Zenith. I'm not sure if it's made in North
7 America or America anymore, because it could be
8 assembled in Mexico. It could be assembled in
9 Canada, et cetera.
10 I think what we're trying to do
11 here, Senator Maltese, to say micromanage is an
12 understatement, but we dealt with this bill two
13 years ago, and there is absolutely no line of
14 logic that says that we should pass a piece of
15 legislation which in fact could be causing
16 Americans to lose jobs.
17 And I find it interesting. I
18 would like to know how many people that own
19 Crown Victorias, are you going to go up to them
20 and say, "You know, you got a Crown Victoria but
21 it's not assembled here in America? This is not
22 an American-made car."
23 I suspect, Senator Maltese, you
4274
1 are not going to be able to find too many people
2 when you go up to them and ask them, "Is that
3 Crown Victoria an American made car?" they are
4 going to scratch their heads and say, "Where did
5 you come from, Senator?"
6 This is a ludicrous piece of
7 legislation, and I can not understand your logic
8 for this if you think this is going to produce
9 jobs in this country. If anything, the only
10 thing this is doing is spending the taxpayers'
11 money, the people of the State of New York, for
12 the cost of printing this bill, introducing this
13 bill, trying to pass this bill and trying to get
14 it signed into law. And, then, trying to
15 enforce it is going to be another matter.
16 I think we've really got to put
17 our feet on the ground and scratch our heads and
18 say, "What is this piece of legislation even
19 doing in front of us today?"
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
21 will read the last section.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4275
1 act shall take effect on January 1, 1995.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Slow roll
6 call has been requested. Will five Senators who
7 are requesting that please stand.
8 There being five Senators, the
9 clerk will call the roll slowly.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Bruno.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Connor, excused. Senator
15 Cook.
16 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly.
18 SENATOR DALY: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 DeFrancisco.
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo.
23 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes.
4276
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Farley.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber.
9 SENATOR GALIBER: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President
12 very, very briefly.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Gold to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR GOLD: I found Senator
16 Leichter's comments particularly humorous in
17 terms that here's this poor guy, Senator
18 Maltese, who wants to reach into his pocket and
19 give the State of New York twenty-five beautiful
20 dollars and we're saying to him, "You idiot, you
21 can get a decal for a buck, put it on your
22 license plate and go home."
23 I vote no.
4277
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Gold in the negative.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzolez,
4 excused. Senator Goodman.
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Aye.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.
7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Hoffmann.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Holland.
12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones.
16 SENATOR JONES: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
18 SENATOR KRUGER: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
20 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
22 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
4278
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
11 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
13 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino.
15 SENATOR MARINO: Aye.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Markowitz.
18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: To explain my
19 vote.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Markowitz to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you. I
23 assume this vote means that those of us who own
4279
1 automobiles whether -- without an American
2 nameplate, although I'm not sure what a GEO is
3 and some of these other products -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Markowitz, excuse me. It's getting awfully
6 noisy in here. Could we please calm it down,
7 ladies and gentlemen.
8 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: We're pushing
9 aside GEOs and other hybrids under American
10 names manufactured under Japanese management,
11 using American parts and Canadian and Mexican,
12 putting that aside, I'm assuming by this vote
13 that those of us that don't own an automobile
14 certifiable of 75 percent or more of American
15 made parts with an American nameplate are less
16 of Americans; because if we choose to have a
17 flag on our license, we will be denied that
18 opportunity.
19 I think, in view of the fact of
20 all the pressing problems facing the State of
21 New York and the murders that are going on in
22 the streets of our cities in this state, for us
23 to take any time at all, including myself,
4280
1 talking on this in my opinion ridiculous piece
2 of legislation, I just don't believe we're
3 facing reality sometimes.
4 I vote no.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Markowitz in the negative.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
8 SENATOR MENDEZ: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Montgomery, excused. Senator Nanula, Excused.
11 Senator Nolan.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Nozzolio.
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Ohrenstein.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Onorato.
19 SENATOR ONORATO: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator
21 Oppenheimer.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
4281
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Paterson.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
9 SENATOR RATH: Aye.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
11 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator
13 Santiago.
14 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Senator Seward.
18 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith,
22 excused. Senator Solomon.
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, to explain
4282
1 my vote.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Solomon to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: I just hope,
5 Senator Maltese, you've considered some of the
6 problems the State of New York might have in
7 terms of the purchase of some of the vehicles we
8 see in the pool, whether it be a Ford Escort and
9 a number of the Crown Victorias that some of the
10 people might have that are assigned to the
11 Legislature and assigned to the Governor's
12 Executive Committee, because I just realized
13 some of those Crown Victorias are not American
14 made cars under this bill.
15 So I think maybe you should
16 introduce another piece of legislation that
17 deals with automobiles purchased by the State of
18 New York for used by the executive, legislative
19 branches, and probably judicial branch, so we
20 can clarify these issues because we certainly
21 don't want government officials driving around
22 in non-American made automobiles.
23 I vote no.
4283
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Solomon in the negative.
3 Clerk will continue the roll.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
5 SENATOR SPANO: Aye.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Stachowski.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Stafford.
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky,
13 excused. Senator Trunzo.
14 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
16 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
18 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker,
20 excused. Senator Waldon, excused. Senator
21 Wright.
22 (There was no response.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
4284
1 will call the absentees.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Bruno.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Hoffmann.
9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: To explain my
10 vote.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Hoffmann to explain her vote.
13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr.
14 President. I have listened with passing
15 interest to this discussion. I say "passing"
16 because I can think of so many better things
17 that we could have done today, perhaps
18 discussing in greater detail some of the
19 emergency appropriations that we passed in great
20 haste, perhaps discussing some of the ongoing
21 budgetary problems that are now making us the
22 laughing stock of the state because we are two
23 months late with the budget.
4285
1 I find it somewhat absurd that we
2 would waste our time, instead, debating a bill
3 that has relatively little consequence for the
4 taxpayers of this state; will probably never be
5 fully understood when it is reported; and in the
6 scope of things, hardly justifies our continued
7 presence and the great expense to the taxpayers
8 of the state here in the capital.
9 With reluctance, I'll vote aye
10 simply because it doesn't really make a whole
11 lot of difference which way one votes on this
12 because it's not going anywhere at any point in
13 the future, and it's another example of
14 posturing on an issue when we should, in fact,
15 be devoting ourselves to more serious work.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hoffmann in the affirmative.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Nolan.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Ohrenstein.
23 (There was no response.)
4286
1 Senator Pataki.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Sears.
4 SENATOR SEARS: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
6 (There was no response.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
8 announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. Nays
10 14.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 Clerk will continue the -
14 Senator Stafford.
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Could we
16 please put a sponsor star, temporarily, on
17 Calendar Number 1105 and 1106.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk
19 will star Calendar Numbers 1105 and 1106 at the
20 request of the sponsor.
21 SENATOR STAFFORD: And could we
22 also recommit Resolution 3683 to Finance.
23 Thank you.
4287
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
2 objection, the resolution is recommitted.
3 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Galiber.
7 SENATOR GALIBER: May I have
8 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
9 on Calendar Number 301.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection, Senator Galiber will be recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar Number 301.
13 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Present.
16 SENATOR PRESENT: Housekeeping
17 all in order?
18 (There was no response.)
19 Mr. President. I would like to
20 announce an immediate brief conference of the
21 majority in Room 332. The faster they get
22 there, the faster they will get out.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
4288
1 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate
2 Majority, Senate conference of the Majority in
3 Room 332. Immediate conference.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
6 There being no further business, I move that we
7 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection, the motion to adjourn as adopted.
10 Senate stands adjourned.
11 (Whereupon, at 6:02 p.m., Senate
12 adjourned.)
13
14
15
16
17
18