Regular Session - June 13, 1994
4793
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 13, 1994
10 3:55 p.m.
11
12
13 REGULAR SESSION
14
15
16
17 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
19
20
21
22
23
4794
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please
4 find their places. Please rise with me for the
5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 Today we're pleased to have with
9 us Rabbi M. Mitchell Serels of Magen David
10 Sephardic Congregation of Scarsdale, New
11 Rochelle, New York.
12 Rabbi Serels.
13 RABBI M. MITCHELL SERELS:
14 Elohaynu zerin elohaynu: Our Lord God, our
15 redeemer and refuge, bless these noble
16 legislators. Crown their efforts with success.
17 May the deed of their hands and the thoughts of
18 their minds be of benefit to all. As we, the
19 Sephardim, know out of tolerance and mutual
20 respect great works can flower, but out of
21 intolerance only disaster can result. Let each
22 one, therefore, take pride in their
23 accomplishment. As You, Almighty, have promised
4795
1 reward, and bless them for performing justice,
2 and so shall these Senators be blessed. As the
3 efforts of each does indeed affect each and
4 every one of us, grant them continued wise
5 counsel, the knowledge of where we have come
6 from and to where we must ultimately go and what
7 we must leave behind. Para la paz y la salud de
8 todos. And let us say amen.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
10 Secretary will begin by reading the Journal.
11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
12 Friday, June 10th. The Senate met pursuant to
13 adjournment, Senator Bruno in the Chair upon
14 designation of the Temporary President. The
15 Journal of Thursday, June 9th, was read and ap
16 proved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing
18 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as
19 read.
20 The order of business:
21 Presentation of petitions.
22 Messages from the Assembly.
23 Messages from the Governor.
4796
1 Reports of standing committees.
2 Reports of select committees.
3 Communications and reports from
4 state officers.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 Senator DiCarlo, with a motion.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
8 on page 37, I offer the following amendments to
9 Calendar 615, Senate Print Number 7215, and ask
10 that said bill retain its place on the Third
11 Reading Calendar on behalf of Senator Cook.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
13 objection.
14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
15 on page 37, I offer the following amendments to
16 Calendar 613, Senate Print Number 3202-A, and
17 ask that said bill retain its place on the Third
18 Reading Calendar, for Senator Cook.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: So
20 ordered, without objection.
21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
22 I wish to call up bill, Print Number 6300-B
23 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
4797
1 desk.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
3 Secretary will read the bill.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
5 Senate Bill Number 6300-B, an act to amend the
6 Highway Law, in relation to designating a
7 portion of state highway system as the C. V.
8 Whitney Memorial Highway.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
10 DiCarlo.
11 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
12 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
13 bill was passed.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
15 the roll on reconsideration.
16 (The Secretary called the roll on
17 reconsideration. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
20 bill is before the house.
21 Senator DiCarlo.
22 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
23 I now offer the following amendments on behalf
4798
1 of Senator Bruno.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
3 Amendments are received; bill will retain its
4 place.
5 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
6 I wish to call up bill, Print Number 6805
7 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
8 desk.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
10 Secretary will read it.
11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Sears,
12 Senate Bill Number 6805, an act to amend the
13 Highway Law, in relation to designating a
14 portion of the state highway system as the
15 Aluminum Workers Memorial Highway.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
17 DiCarlo.
18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
19 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
20 bill was passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
22 the roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
4799
1 reconsideration. )
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 DiCarlo.
5 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
6 I now offer the following amendments for Senator
7 Sears.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
9 Amendments are received.
10 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
11 I wish to call up my bill, Print Number 6379
12 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
13 desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
15 Secretary will read Senator DiCarlo's bill.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill
17 Number 6379, by Senator DiCarlo, an act to amend
18 the Penal Law, in relation to the sale of
19 controlled substances on school grounds.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
21 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
22 bill was passed.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
4800
1 the roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
5 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
6 I now offer the following amendments.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
8 Amendments are received.
9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
10 on behalf of Senator Skelos, please remove
11 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 199.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Star is
13 removed on 199.
14 SENATOR DiCARLO: On behalf of
15 Senator Daly, please remove the sponsor's star
16 on Calendar Numbers 400 and 945.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
18 stars are removed.
19 SENATOR DiCARLO: On behalf of
20 Senator Wright, please place a sponsor's star on
21 Calendars Number 402, 403 and 404.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bills are starred.
4801
1 Senator Cook.
2 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I'd
3 like to remove stars on Calendars 613, 615 and
4 922.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
6 stars are removed at the request of the
7 sponsor.
8 Senator Goodman.
9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President,
10 may I place a sponsor's star on Calendar 780,
11 Senate Bill 7902.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 780 is
13 starred at the request of the sponsor.
14 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
16 Velella.
17 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
18 I'd like to -- Senate Bill 872, Senate Bill
19 7198-A, would you remove the sponsor's star.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Star is
21 removed.
22 Any other motions on the floor?
23 We have some substitutions, Senator Padavan.
4802
1 May we read them? Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: On page 20 of
3 today's calendar, Senator Skelos moves to
4 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
5 Bill Number 8460-B and substitute it for the
6 identical Third Reading 817.
7 On page 31, Senator LaValle moves
8 to discharge the Committee on Education from
9 Assembly Bill Number 8734-A and substitute it
10 for the identical Third Reading 1065.
11 On page 39, Senator Cook moves to
12 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
13 Bill Number 5058-B and substitute it for the
14 identical Calendar Number 922.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Substitutions are ordered.
17 Senator Padavan.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
19 will you acknowledge Senator Stafford who has a
20 privileged resolution.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
22 Secretary will read Senator Stafford's privi
23 leged resolution.
4803
1 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
2 Resolution, by Senator Stafford, honoring Dr. H.
3 David Chamberlain for his distinguished service
4 on behalf of Paul Smiths College of Arts and
5 Sciences on June 17, 1994.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
7 resolution, all in favor say aye.
8 (Response of "Aye.")
9 Those opposed nay.
10 (There was no response. )
11 The resolution is adopted.
12 Are there any other motions, any
13 other business on the floor?
14 Senator Padavan, what's your
15 pleasure?
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Non-controvers
17 ial.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
19 Secretary will read non-controversial.
20 THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
21 Calendar Number 126, by Senator Hannon, Senate
22 Bill Number 281-B, authorizing the county of
23 Nassau to accept an application for real
4804
1 property tax exemption.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 242, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6390
14 A, an act to amend the Public Officers Law and
15 the Village Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
4805
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 291, by Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside
6 for the day, please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
8 aside for the day, did you say?
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: For the day.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the
11 day.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 478, by Senator Saland.
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Lay it
15 aside.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
18 that bill aside.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: For the day.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the
21 day.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 734, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5622-D, an
4806
1 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 812, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
14 3144-C, Real Property Tax Law and the Education
15 Law.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
18 aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 815, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
21 5038-A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
22 Law and the Social Services Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4807
1 the last section.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 817, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8460-B,
8 an act to amend the Public Health Law, requiring
9 the presence of certified lifeguards on ocean
10 beaches.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays
19 one, Senator Cook recorded in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 929, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 6672
4808
1 A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 941, by Senator Johnson.
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay aside for
15 the day, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid
17 aside for the day.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1098, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 7133
20 A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
4809
1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
3 Withdraw the roll call, lay it aside.
4 That's the first time through,
5 Senator Padavan.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Controversial,
7 please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
9 Controversial.
10 THE SECRETARY: On page 20,
11 Calendar Number 812, by Senator Larkin, Senate
12 Bill Number 3144-C, an act to amend the Real
13 Property Tax Law and the Public Service Law.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Explanation has been asked for.
17 Senator Larkin.
18 SENATOR LARKIN: This really is a
19 -- Mr. President, this is really a continuation
20 of a bill that we did in 1987, and the main
21 thrust of this bill today is that -- from the
22 1987 is that the central office equipment in
23 those days was all out in the field. Now, you
4810
1 can move it to the field or inside.
2 And those that had the objection
3 was the Association of Counties and the towns.
4 Now, all they have to do is move this equipment
5 out on a pole and they get the exemption.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
7 yield to a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
9 Larkin?
10 SENATOR GOLD: Is this the same
11 bill that we had last year?
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir, and we
13 made those changes that the telecommunications
14 people that the Governor had in "B", and asked
15 us to hold off, and we made those changes.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Then it's not the
17 same bill.
18 SENATOR GALIBER: An improved
19 bill.
20 SENATOR GOLD: An improved bill.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: It's an improved
22 bill, yes, sir.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
4811
1 yield to a question?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
3 Larkin, will you yield?
4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Larkin,
5 you may remember that this bill won the award
6 last year for the bill that had the most
7 bipartisan opposition, but I'm just curious:
8 Can you just explain what the amendment does so
9 that people who voted against it last year can
10 at least understand the changes.
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, it says
12 that the central office equipment located
13 anywhere except in a special franchise is exempt
14 from the real property tax.
15 SENATOR GOLD: All right, Mr.
16 President. On the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
18 bill.
19 SENATOR GOLD: There were just a
20 few -- last year Senators Jones and Markowitz,
21 Oppenheimer, Stachowski, Cook, Farley, Johnson,
22 Pataki and Seward voted against that print.
23 You've heard my distinguished colleague explain
4812
1 the difference. Your dice.
2 SENATOR LARKIN: Last section.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: SECTION -
6 Senator Jones. I'm sorry.
7 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Would the
8 sponsor just yield to a question, please?
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
10 SENATOR JONES: Does that mean,
11 then, that NYCOM and the Association of Counties
12 has withdrawn their opposition to this new
13 print?
14 SENATOR LARKIN: I just said the
15 Association of Counties and Towns are still
16 objecting.
17 SENATOR JONES: Oh, they do
18 object. I didn't hear you, Senator. Thank
19 you.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
4813
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll. )
5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
6 in the negative on Calendar Number 812 are
7 Senators Cook, Dollinger, Farley, Johnson,
8 Jones, Kruger, Oppenheimer and Stachowski. Ayes
9 37, nays 8.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: On page 20,
13 Calendar Number 815, by Senator Farley, Senate
14 Bill Number 5038-A, an act to amend the Real
15 Property Tax Law and the Social Services Law.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just a
18 moment.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: This particular
20 legislation has been introduced at the request
21 of Montgomery County. It would permit counties
22 the option of withholding Social Services rent
23 payments to landlords who are delinquent in the
4814
1 payment of their property taxes.
2 It was amended -- the bill was
3 amended to exclude New York City and to also
4 make it optional. Is that it?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
6 Galiber.
7 SENATOR GALIBER: Just one
8 question, whose option?
9 SENATOR FARLEY: I beg your
10 pardon?
11 SENATOR GALIBER: You say it's
12 optional.
13 SENATOR FARLEY: It's optional on
14 the part of the counties whether they want to be
15 able to exercise the options in this bill to
16 withhold rent payments to landlords who receive
17 their rent directly for welfare payments -
18 welfare clients that live in their residences.
19 SENATOR GALIBER: In other words,
20 they would receive -- the landlord would receive
21 a check directly?
22 SENATOR FARLEY: The landlords
23 receive -- they already have that option to
4815
1 receive the payments directly. If the landlord
2 is delinquent in his property taxes, Social
3 Services can, under this, if the county wishes
4 to opt into this program, withhold the rent
5 payments to the landlord until the property
6 taxes are paid.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Gold.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I just
11 wanted to point out that there -- the Greater
12 Upstate Law Project is opposed to this and they
13 basically take the position that -- I'll read
14 just a sentence or two: Although this idea has
15 superficial appeal, after all why should the
16 county pay funds over to a landlord who owes the
17 county money, the impact on recipients of public
18 assistance could well be devastating.
19 Another comment: A law which
20 would essentially utilize welfare families as
21 captive tax collectors is unlikely to enhance
22 the housing opportunities for these families.
23 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't know why
4816
1 they would be devastated. The law already says
2 that if a piece of property is not up to build
3 ing codes, that they can withhold the rent
4 payments to the landlord, and that has not been
5 devastating. This is just to have an
6 encouragement to have the landlords pay their
7 taxes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
9 Dollinger.
10 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator Farley,
11 will you yield to a question, please?
12 SENATOR FARLEY: Certainly,
13 Senator Onorato.
14 SENATOR ONORATO: If the Social
15 Services is able to withhold the amount that
16 they were paying towards the welfare client's
17 rent, can they pay -- can they still withhold it
18 and apply it to whatever taxes are due on the
19 property and consider the rent paid to the
20 landlord, or is it simply withholding it and
21 then subjecting the tenant to an eviction
22 notice?
23 SENATOR FARLEY: No, I don't
4817
1 think that the tenant is affected by any
2 eviction notice. They're precluded from doing
3 just exactly what you're talking about in this
4 legislation.
5 SENATOR ONORATO: O.K.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Dollinger.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President, will the sponsor yield to a
10 question?
11 SENATOR FARLEY: Certainly.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Farley yields.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, did
15 I hear you mention that the bill was optional
16 for the counties to participate?
17 SENATOR FARLEY: That is
18 correct.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Where is that
20 language contained in the bill just so -
21 SENATOR FARLEY: The county
22 legislative body may elect by resolution, in the
23 first line of the bill, line 4, it's the very
4818
1 first line. Do you have the "A" print?
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I may not.
3 Senator, I apologize.
4 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll send a copy
5 over to you right away. That was part of the -
6 in the "A" print, they made it optional and they
7 also excluded the city of New York.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Just one
9 other question then, Mr. President, and I
10 apologize for not having the updated version of
11 it.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Dollinger.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That answers
15 the question. When would the -- when would the
16 obligation to report the non-payment of taxes
17 occur? Does it occur immediately upon the taxes
18 being declared delinquent, or does it occur upon
19 the time that the taxes are actually published
20 that they're in delinquency, default, and that
21 the county will assess -- trying to remember my
22 law here -- that the county will actually
23 complete the collection process?
4819
1 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, as far as
2 the time, I guess it's when they are delinquent.
3 I think you are not delinquent until the third
4 -- when the local warrant to collect the taxes
5 expires, then they become delinquent and they
6 have -- they have to notify Social Services, the
7 Tax Department would notify Social Services and
8 they would withhold the rent and notify the
9 landlord, pay your taxes.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K., But
11 that, again through you, Mr. President if the
12 sponsor would just continue to yield: Would
13 that be before or after the usual publication
14 date for the non-payment of taxes? My
15 understanding is that the counties undertake the
16 responsibility to collect the delinquent school
17 and municipal taxes after the expiration of the
18 warrant and then they subsequently publish a
19 notice that the taxes are in default and that
20 they're subject to -
21 SENATOR FARLEY: When it goes to
22 the county. You see, the county has to pay
23 those taxes, in essence, and when it goes to the
4820
1 county, and that warrant has expired they would
2 notify the Social Services to withhold rent.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. So it's
4 after the counties have already paid the
5 municipalities and the school districts.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a final
8 question again through you, Mr. President, if
9 the sponsor will continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
11 Farley continues to yield.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Are you
13 satisfied that this meets the constitutional
14 tests for the collection of these kinds of
15 debts? I know there's been a lot of litigation
16 involving government's ability to intercept
17 proceeds without a hearing.
18 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, I don't
19 know that they're intercepting these proceeds.
20 I don't think that these proceeds necessarily go
21 to the payment of the taxes. They don't.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But this is
23 actually -- this is a payment being made to the
4821
1 landlord.
2 SENATOR FARLEY: That will be
3 held in escrow, and I presume as soon as the
4 landlord pays his taxes he will get the rent
5 payments.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 SENATOR RATH: I have a
9 question.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
11 last section.
12 SENATOR RATH: Senator yield to a
13 question?
14 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will.
15 SENATOR RATH: Senator, is there
16 any law that has been passed that would allow a
17 city -- I know you said there that New York City
18 is exempted in this particular piece of
19 legislation. Was there anything earlier that
20 would allow, that a city like, for example,
21 Buffalo could come back at those delinquent
22 taxpayers? No? That would have to be a future
23 consideration?
4822
1 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't quite
2 understand.
3 SENATOR RATH: These are county
4 taxes we're talking about now.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: These are taxes,
6 period.
7 SENATOR RATH: All taxes.
8 SENATOR FARLEY: All taxes.
9 SENATOR RATH: And so the city
10 portion -
11 SENATOR FARLEY: All property
12 taxes.
13 SENATOR RATH: -- would go back to
14 the city.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: The county would
16 pay the city, as I understand.
17 SENATOR RATH: So it would go
18 back to any of the jurisdictions that had any
19 responsibility or any lien against that property
20 by way of not having those taxes paid?
21 SENATOR FARLEY: All right. If I
22 understand the process, the city is collecting
23 taxes or purportedly collecting taxes. They're
4823
1 not paid, and the county actually pays the
2 city.
3 SENATOR RATH: And the county
4 gets the money back.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: And the county
6 becomes -- and at that point they would come in
7 and, say -- notify Social Services and say,
8 Withhold the rent, the taxes are not paid, and
9 Social Services would. I would presume that
10 would get the taxes paid. That's the purpose of
11 it.
12 SENATOR RATH: So that would come
13 back then to the county coffers, is what you're
14 saying.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, back to the
16 county coffers.
17 SENATOR RATH: Yeah, and any
18 other kind of outstanding claim that a city
19 would have outside of a particular tax that you
20 have noted here would not be falling in
21 obviously under this legislation, but I was
22 asking if there were other -- other pieces of
23 legislation that addressed this same claim on
4824
1 those monies, so that Social Services would
2 intercept -- so that the Sheriff's Department
3 would intercept the money before it would go
4 into the hands of the landlord.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't think
6 so.
7 SENATOR RATH: No.
8 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't think
9 so, no.
10 SENATOR RATH: O.K. Thank you.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
13 Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I -- I don't
15 think I was fair to this memo in explaining it,
16 and I want to try one more time not to advocate
17 the position or not, but just to make it clear.
18 If a landlord has a building and
19 he's got a problem, it's usually a cash flow
20 problem or related thereto and it may very well
21 be that part of the problem is delinquency in
22 taxes. It may be a delinquency in mortgage. It
23 may be a situation where he's got to refinance,
4825
1 could be a lot of things. If these tenants are
2 paying him the money, the landlord may be able
3 to juggle that building for a period of time and
4 then wind up paying the taxes before he loses it
5 in rem, or do some other things.
6 What their -- this bill -- what
7 this memo is saying is they're worried about
8 from the welfare tenant's point of view. What
9 they're saying that if there is a particular
10 tenant whose money is easily accessible to the
11 municipality for the taxes directly, that might
12 be less attractive to a landlord than someone
13 who had a legal obligation to pay the landlord
14 the money, and then the landlord would have the
15 juggling, so that's their objection.
16 Their objection here is, as they
17 phrased it, and I think I've at least explained
18 it better now, is that they're concerned that
19 there will be a prejudice to welfare clients
20 where a landlord figures that their money could
21 be grabbed and he won't have the cash flow as
22 opposed to somebody else.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read -
4826
1 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me add -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
3 Farley, go ahead.
4 SENATOR FARLEY: I was going to
5 try to answer Senator Gold's concern.
6 We contacted the New York State
7 Department of Social Services, actually Kathy
8 Napoli, in the Shelter Division, as to the
9 effect of this legislation and the Department of
10 Social Services indicated to us that this
11 legislation would have little or no effect on
12 the ability -- the ability of the recipients to
13 obtain housing. She indicated that most
14 landlords who do not wish to rent to welfare
15 clients have already made this decision, and
16 this decision would not affect their decision. I
17 mean that's what Social Services thinks of
18 this.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
20 Rath.
21 SENATOR RATH: Senator Farley,
22 will you yield to a question?
23 The question is, in your second
4827
1 section of the summary looks to me like it would
2 only -- it would only deal with clients who are
3 on the voucher system, is that correct, only
4 Social Services clients who are receiving their
5 rent paid by voucher?
6 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes.
7 SENATOR RATH: Those are the only
8 ones that we would have any way of intercepting?
9 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct.
10 That's correct.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Leichter.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if
14 Senator Farley would yield, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
16 Farley yields.
17 SENATOR FARLEY: My pleasure.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: I appreciate
19 my good friend helping to explain his bill.
20 SENATOR FARLEY: Here comes the
21 tough question.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, but,
23 Senator, I -- I see obviously some merit in your
4828
1 bill, but I see a problem which I think Senator
2 Gold has explained based on the memorandum in
3 opposition.
4 Senator, why wouldn't it be
5 possible to frame a bill that where a landlord
6 was -- property owner was delinquent in taxes,
7 that the county collector would have the right
8 to go and collect not only from social -- from
9 people who are receiving their rent payment from
10 the Department of Social Services but serving a
11 notice on all the tenants saying, Well, you go
12 into court and you get an order, and it -- if
13 you've established in court that the property
14 owner is delinquent in taxes, it's in the nature
15 of a garnishment. You get a judgment or I guess
16 you would have to get a judgment. I don't know,
17 maybe you wouldn't. Maybe you could even get -
18 have some of the money put in escrow before you
19 get a judgment, require all tenants to pay their
20 rent to the county collector.
21 Why -- why couldn't you do that?
22 SENATOR FARLEY: That's another
23 bill. If you are interested in that, you can
4829
1 introduce it. This was at the request of the
2 counties. Incidentally, let me just say this in
3 regard to any hardship. I don't think it's a
4 hardship on the -- on the tenants because you
5 know, the city code, if there is a city, the
6 city could foreclose on that property and
7 actually the tenants would lose their place of
8 residence, so actually, all this is, is an
9 incentive to have these landlords pay their
10 taxes.
11 I think that a landlord that is
12 receiving direct voucher payments of rent should
13 -- from Social Services, should be paying his
14 taxes. Many times they just use that and they
15 have a terrible problem in these cities with
16 delinquency of taxes and they just refuse to pay
17 them until -- until foreclosure starts.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if
19 you would be so kind to continue to yield. You
20 know, Senator, we understand the reason for the
21 bill. I'm actually trying to make the bill both
22 more effective or come up with a more effective
23 approach.
4830
1 SENATOR FARLEY: I understand.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Or all
3 encompassing approach that would help the
4 localities and secondly, to avoid there being
5 any disincentive for landlord renting to people
6 who are on welfare, and I don't know whether
7 it's an answer to say, well, that's another
8 bill.
9 Yeah, it would be a little
10 different bill, but you know, Senator, even -
11 even your excellent legislation sometimes could
12 be improved. Rarely, that is.
13 SENATOR FARLEY: That's
14 possible.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Rarely would
16 we find that possible, Senator, but maybe this
17 is one of those cases.
18 Wouldn't we help the locality
19 which you're trying to do -- that's certainly a
20 worthwhile effort -- by saying that what you
21 really want to do is to have an expedited way to
22 have a judgment and garnish, and that's
23 essentially what we're doing; in those instances
4831
1 maybe give the county the right to go in to, in
2 effect, it would be like a lien. I don't do
3 this sort of work, so I'm not using all of the
4 right terminology, but I think there's a -- I
5 could easily see a very expedited way by having
6 the county giving, of course, notice to the
7 property owner, put a lien on it and then serve
8 a notice on all the tenants.
9 Now, if there were then some
10 tenants who received their pay from Social
11 Services, they would be in the same category as
12 all of the tenants and the cities and the
13 counties would be helped because we've given
14 them an easier way to try to collect the money.
15 Now, if that's another bill,
16 Senator, maybe it's a better bill than the one
17 we have before us and, of course, it will pass
18 as a Senator Farley bill.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Your point might
20 be well taken. Of course, this is what the
21 counties asked for. They might consider this the
22 lawyers' full employment clause that you're
23 asking for because we're going to have to go to
4832
1 court and get liens and judgments, and so
2 forth. I think this is a little cleaner and a
3 little more simple way to try to get -- to
4 encourage the taxes to be paid. That's just my
5 opinion.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Rath.
8 SENATOR RATH: When Senator
9 Farley said the counties were asking and this is
10 on the bill -- were asking for this, I think it
11 was maybe me about nine years ago. We started
12 something in Erie County called Project Inter
13 cept in order to bring dollars into the county
14 coffers, the desperately needed dollars, and we
15 found that we could only make that happen and
16 very much the way this bill is asking we could
17 only make that happen for a very short period of
18 time because of state law. There was only a
19 small window of opportunity for us to bring
20 those dollars back, and through the Social
21 Services system which, by the way, does mandate,
22 I believe, that the sheriff's department
23 actually does pick those monies up and carries
4833
1 them over to the county Tax Department.
2 When I tell you that in a period
3 of about a month and a half we picked up about
4 150-, $200,000 in delinquent taxes from people
5 whom you would not believe in Erie County who
6 have delinquent taxes and have voucher system
7 social service dollars coming in. It was shock
8 ing. I can't tell you the number of personal
9 phone calls being told to please stop, please do
10 not put anything in the newspaper. It is out
11 there, that money, just waiting to be collected,
12 and the counties will be very, very grateful for
13 this legislation.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: I'd be happy to
15 have you have as a sponsor of this. We've
16 already got 12 people on it. Anybody else would
17 like to get on, feel free to jump in.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
19 DeFrancisco.
20 SENATOR FARLEY: He's a sponsor.
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'd just
22 like to speak on behalf of the bill. I think it
23 makes little sense to have landlords in cities
4834
1 and counties that are grossly delinquent in
2 taxes and not be able to take these sums of
3 money that the same jurisdictions are paying
4 back to those landlords by way of whatever
5 purpose, whether it's Social Services or
6 anything else, and it's interesting that these
7 are the same landlords that don't take care of
8 their properties and make them delinquent and
9 milk them for years and years and years.
10 Here is a wake-up call, I believe
11 to the landlord, that you're not going to be
12 able to do this. It's a quick simple way to get
13 back those tax revenues and it also is a way to
14 make sure that the landlord is not going to be
15 doing this for years and years before a
16 foreclosure action can be taken.
17 It's a good bill, and I am
18 pleased to support it today.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
23 shall have become a law.
4835
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar Number 815 are Senators
6 Connor, Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz and
7 Ohrenstein. Ayes 42, nays 6.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: On page 31,
11 Calendar Number 1098, by Senator Bruno, Senate
12 Bill Number 7133-A, an act to amend the
13 Executive Law, in relation to the establishment
14 of strategic planning.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Explanation
17 requested, Mr. President?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Yes,
19 there has, Senator Bruno.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation
21 requested.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, thank
23 you.
4836
1 This bill, as you review it, I
2 think we all recognize that it's critical and
3 essential so that the people of this state, we
4 and the people of this state know that they are
5 getting from government what they pay for.
6 This bill pretty much -- and I
7 think, Senator Gold, your colleagues, that it's
8 important to recognize that we took this bill
9 almost as a duplicate from the federal
10 government in the Clinton administration and
11 some of the good work that they're doing there
12 in making federal agencies more accountable and
13 responsive to the people.
14 This duplicates almost that
15 federal program. Comptroller McCall has a
16 proposal in a bill that resembles this one. We
17 had ours in first, so that's the one that's
18 before the house.
19 What it says very basically is
20 that government ought to do what business does.
21 You set up a strategic plan and in this instance
22 that's by April -- January 1st, '95, each state
23 agency will set up a strategic plan. Then, by
4837
1 April 1st, '96 each state agency will set up a
2 performance plan intended to implement the
3 strategic plan, and then January 1st, '97,
4 report to the Governor and the Legislature how
5 they made out: How does the result compare to
6 the strategic plan and the performance plan?
7 They give a performance report.
8 Now, businesses do this. The
9 state is business. We think that this would add
10 a lot of credibility to government agencies.
11 It's no secret, the public out there feels
12 they've been short-changed by government. They
13 don't get their money's worth. Well, how do
14 they know; how do we know? How do we
15 commissioners, how does the Governor know
16 whether or not we're getting what we should in
17 terms of results from state agencies?
18 You will know by looking at their
19 strategic plan, look at their performance plan,
20 and then looking at their report on their
21 results. If they have not met their own plans
22 they talk about why not and what they're going
23 to do about it in the future to fix it. Very
4838
1 basic, very simple, not complicated at all, and
2 again in the federal government, they have
3 called it the Government Performance End Result
4 Act enacted by the Congress in 1993, and they're
5 starting to get some positive results.
6 So we are just taking a page from
7 President Clinton, his administration, and
8 laying it before you for your review and study
9 and hopefully approval, Senators.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
14 there is a memo in opposition from CSEA on
15 behalf of its 265,000 active and retired public
16 employees.
17 Firstly, Senator Bruno, the
18 budget process at the federal level is different
19 than the federal process at the state level. At
20 the federal level the agencies deal with the
21 Legislature, and that's one thing. In our
22 process, as you know, the agencies have to
23 submit their budgets through to the Governor.
4839
1 They submit it to the Director of Budget and
2 then the Governor may or may not like their plan
3 or their budget, and then the Governor submits
4 what his plan is for the way the state will
5 operate.
6 After that, we hold hearings and
7 the same people who submitted their budget
8 request through the Governor's office and may
9 have had them completely changed, now come
10 before the Legislature and have to defend that
11 budget or answer questions.
12 Now, if you say to me, Senator
13 Bruno, that people don't think they're getting
14 the bang for the buck or they're getting short
15 changed, I tell you that this is an insult to
16 the 35 Republicans here who apparently are not
17 doing their oversight work; and that's what
18 you're supposed to be doing. That's what we're
19 all supposed to be doing. It's called
20 legislative oversight, and when we have our
21 budget hearings -- and I'm on the Finance
22 Committee; I go to those hearings sometimes, and
23 you -- the agency comes there and you can say to
4840
1 them, Well, what happened? Last year you were
2 in front of us and last year you said that we
3 were going to do this and we were going to do
4 that, and you needed money for this and that,
5 and where is that? You seem to have changed
6 that; or where is that; how did it work out? And
7 the agency is right there in front of Senators
8 and Assemblymen, and they have to answer those
9 questions very directly.
10 Now, that's an open process. I
11 have not yet experienced, Senator Bruno, one
12 Republican Senator who, when faced with a situa
13 tion he or she believed was governmental waste
14 or governmental ineffectiveness on the part of
15 the Democratic administration, was so shy that
16 he or she didn't put out a press release about
17 it, and I don't blame you. I think that's
18 fair. I think that's fair.
19 But it's certainly different than
20 putting in this bill which the CSEA points out
21 is, quotes, in their words "another unnecessary
22 level of paperwork and bureaucracy in state
23 government."
4841
1 I mean I think, Senator Bruno,
2 that philosophically, you and I might very well
3 agree that anyone who works for government is
4 accountable to the people who put up the bucks
5 and we in the Legislature should be making sure
6 that that works, but that's different than bills
7 such as we get all the time from members on your
8 side that require that the agencies put out this
9 study and they study this and they study that
10 and now they're going to put out a book of plans
11 and we're going to see what the plan is.
12 Senator, we have that capacity.
13 We have that capability. I've said so many
14 times. We even have an Administrative Review
15 Commission, and I think that that has never
16 really functioned as much as it can and should
17 be working at a greater level.
18 But the bottom line is that you,
19 Senator Bruno and others, have always been
20 concerned about paperwork and dealing with
21 government and government waste. I can only
22 tell you that 265,000 people who work in the
23 government think that this bill will create a
4842
1 lot of paperwork and a lot of waste.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read -
3 Senator Lack.
4 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
5 President.
6 I'm not a sponsor of Senator
7 Bruno's bill, but I couldn't help notice when he
8 stood up and talked about it, he mentioned the
9 reinventing government process which
10 Vice-President Al Gore, under the aegis of
11 President Clinton, introduced into the federal
12 government.
13 Now, I participated in that
14 process on behalf of the National Conference of
15 State Legislatures and, Senator Gold, I've got
16 to tell you, many of the complaints that you
17 have about this bill, I must say that I had
18 about the Vice-President and President's
19 procedure as well. However, I spent a fair
20 amount of time, at least in the areas in which I
21 operate or operated at the time, specifically
22 labor and workers' compensation, in reviewing
23 the re-inventing government reports which were
4843
1 multi-volumes. They would make almost our whole
2 set of Green Books look small in comparison and
3 what they did, and while I had a lot of problems
4 with the process, some of the same complaints,
5 by the way, that you're talking about with
6 respect to Senator Bruno's bill, I've got to
7 tell you that the means notwithstanding the end
8 point which they released was at least
9 refreshing for government and was at least well
10 received, if not acted upon with all due haste
11 by the United States Congress, and I can't tell
12 you that Senator Bruno is not at least
13 attempting in the same framework to do the same
14 thing here.
15 So, quite frankly, just dismiss
16 ing it out of hand, I have some problem with.
17 I've got a problem with some of the language
18 that Senator Bruno has utilized in his bill, but
19 certainly, knowing Senator Bruno, I certainly
20 think he would be open to meaningful discussions
21 to change that in order to reach some type of
22 effective final solution which would lead
23 towards a re-inventing New York government, a
4844
1 review which I think, based upon what I saw
2 President Clinton and Vice-President Gore and
3 what I participated in at the federal level,
4 reach some kind of a fruitful end; and so I
5 certainly would -- would hope that there just
6 isn't a Pavlovian response that, if Senator
7 Bruno has proposed this it's bad, it's something
8 we shouldn't do, it's something we shouldn't do,
9 but by Senator Bruno introducing this bill and
10 the discussion that we're having here today that
11 this would lead towards some of type of
12 productive result so that, quite frankly, there
13 could be a review of New York government to lead
14 to the aims that Senator Bruno is trying to
15 achieve in his legislation.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
18 Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Will my
20 distinguished colleague, Senator Bruno, please
21 yield to a question?
22 SENATOR LACK: Thought you meant
23 me, normally don't say distinguished.
4845
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Bruno yields.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 SENATOR GOLD: I have listened to
6 Senator Lack's comments, and I know they were
7 sincere. He thinks some of your language could
8 be improved and discussed out, that you put this
9 out there, and we shouldn't reject it in a
10 Pavlovian manner, he said.
11 Senator, would you be agreeable
12 to put the bill aside, put together a little
13 meeting with some members here, CSEA, the
14 Governor's office, everybody involved, and maybe
15 we can clean it up.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, I am very
17 open to negotiating the specific language
18 because I think Senator Lack is right, but what
19 I would like to do is pass the bill in this
20 house because we have a comparable bill in the
21 Assembly and some of the language has already
22 been changed in this trying to clean it up, and
23 it has not moved along in the Assembly, so we
4846
1 have a couple of different versions. So what
2 I'd like to do is establish this as a vehicle
3 that we can realistically work with and have the
4 Senate on record that we stand for improved
5 performance and reporting to the people of this
6 state, again taking a page out of the federal
7 government where we learn so much and the
8 present administration that is struggling and
9 trying so hard to improve the climate of this
10 country.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Good, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
14 Gold.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Bruno, in
16 all due respect, if you -- if you had a little
17 piece of paper that said the Senate stands for
18 change and the Senate wants to, you know, see if
19 we can improve some things, and that's a
20 statement of principle, maybe I could even sign
21 it, maybe some other people could sign it, but
22 you're not asking us to do that. You're asking
23 us today to vote on a piece of paper with very
4847
1 specific language that becomes a law, word for
2 word, and as you pointed out, Senator Lack
3 pointed out, the language is defective. No, you
4 didn't point that out, Senator Lack says he has
5 some problems with the language, the CSEA says
6 they have some problems with the bill, and,
7 Senator, I might be able to say to you, I think
8 Senator Gore is doing a terrific job and Bill
9 Clinton has already shown he deserves
10 reelection.
11 But, Senator, that's not the
12 issue. The issue is you're asking me to vote on
13 specific language, not on a principle. The
14 principle is terrific, all right? The language
15 that you're putting before us to do it is -- is
16 language that is suggested by CSEA and some
17 others should be rejected. So we've got this
18 debate.
19 I think you've done terrific.
20 We've had it out in the open, and I would say
21 that the thing to do is now maybe star the bill,
22 Senator Lack and you and I and others who are
23 concerned about the implications can have some
4848
1 meetings. We could talk to some people in the
2 Assembly. As a matter of fact, one of my
3 colleagues on this side has suggested we don't
4 use the -- the committee system enough between
5 houses to negotiate ideas which would be a
6 terrific idea, but maybe that's the way to go,
7 Senator Bruno, because you're not asking us
8 today to approve a principle. You're asking us
9 to approve a specific bill which is flawed.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
11 Bruno.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. Mr.
13 President, I want to just be very, very clear.
14 The language in this bill is in no way
15 defective. This memo in no way indicates
16 defective language. What I was suggesting was
17 that we are open to see this become law and, if
18 that takes negotiation, some compromising on
19 some of the language, some of the intent, that
20 we are open and would like very much to do that,
21 and I think there will be some well intentioned
22 suggestions to do just that, to have this become
23 law before we're out of here some time in August
4849
1 -- if you keep this up, I mean.
2 Mr. President, who says the
3 debate is closed?
4 I would urge, Mr. President, that
5 my colleagues vote in favor of this to let the
6 people of this state know where the Senate
7 stands on this issue of strategic planning,
8 performance planning, reporting to the
9 Legislature and the Governor to improve
10 government here in this state.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Last section.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The -
13 Senator Leichter.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
15 if Senator Bruno would yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
17 Bruno, would you yield to a question?
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, I missed
19 you previously.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
21 Bruno yields.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, one
23 aspect of this bill, and it's something I find
4850
1 in a lot of bills -- generally, it's Senator
2 Cook's bill; I call it the cook "magic wand"
3 where we get at asking state agencies to do all
4 of this additional work, and it never costs any
5 money.
6 Will you tell us what sort of a
7 -- how you wave that magic wand since I see no
8 appropriations in here; how is this additional
9 work going to be done without providing any
10 appropriation?
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator -
12 Senator Gold, I don't know if you were in the
13 room, indicated that all of this is already
14 being done, so you take the staff that's doing
15 it and send the report to the Legislature and
16 the Governor and you certainly don't need
17 additional funds if that's the case.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
19 President. If Senator Bruno would continue to
20 yield.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I did
23 hear the remarks of my learned colleague,
4851
1 Senator Gold. I think what he said was that a
2 lot of this is being done through the hearings
3 of the Finance Committee, so on, and in a
4 different forum.
5 You're requiring formal reports.
6 But let me point to something which I believe is
7 not being done, and that's the last section of
8 your bill, it's on page 5, training. Now,
9 you're requiring training by the Bureau of the
10 Budget of all of these managers in the Executive
11 Department, is that right?
12 SENATOR BRUNO: That's not being
13 done now? Oh, I think a lot of training goes on
14 now within these state agencies.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: But -
16 SENATOR BRUNO: A lot of training
17 goes on, Senator.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: A lot of
19 training goes on, sir, but not in relation to
20 this bill.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, whether it
22 relates to this or not, I think training is
23 training, and I think that goes on continually
4852
1 to help people perform and do their jobs. You
2 know that as well as I know that, Senator.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
4 think this is a wonderful expression. Training
5 is training, any sort of training. You train
6 someone to run a hundred mile -- I mean a
7 hundred yard race is the same thing as training
8 them to play hockey. I mean I don't understand
9 your answer, frankly.
10 You're requiring by this bill
11 very specific training in reference to the
12 reports required by this bill. That means
13 managers have to leave their office. They have
14 to come to the training session. They have to be
15 held possibly throughout the state or you've got
16 to bring people to Albany. You need people who
17 are going to give the training. All of this
18 costs money.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator -
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: How are you
21 going to do it?
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
23 would the Senator yield to a question?
4853
1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
2 Leichter, will you yield to a question?
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will, but I
4 was hoping you would answer my question.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: O.K. Let me
6 answer with a question. Did you attend the big
7 seminars sponsored by the Governor's office
8 re-inventing government, recently, well, within
9 the past year? I think it was held right across
10 the street. There was hundreds and hundreds of
11 people there. You didn't attend that, Senator?
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I -
13 I have -- I've -- I've a lot of serious
14 responsibilities.
15 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, the
16 Governor (unintelligible exchange with Senator
17 Leichter) -- the Governor thought this was very
18 serious, because I think most of the
19 commissioners were there and, since then, the
20 author of "Reinventing Government" for any of
21 you that haven't read the book I would recommend
22 it and I have a dozen copies, that I would make
23 available to you, at no charge, Senator, after
4854
1 that seminar sponsored by the Governor's office,
2 there has been a follow-up in training people
3 within every State Department and the objective
4 is to reinvent government, reinvent what they're
5 doing in their work and not just going along
6 putting one foot after the other and doing what
7 goes on day after day, week after week, month
8 after month, year after year with the taxpayers
9 paying the bill and, Senator, this is not a
10 novel idea. I didn't make it up. If you read
11 the book, you would know that this is what the
12 whole book focuses around.
13 The Governor of this state, I
14 think a friend of yours, started the whole
15 thing, they brought the author in. They have
16 been working with every state agency. They have
17 been in my office, implementing this program, so
18 there isn't any magic that we're trying to
19 perform. It's not so distasteful that you
20 attempt to train someone to improve their
21 performance on a job.
22 Senator, do you find that
23 objectionable?
4855
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let
2 me first say that when we talk about
3 re-inventing government are we also re-inventing
4 how the Legislature works, or is that beyond
5 being improved upon?
6 SENATOR BRUNO: It's very
7 difficult to improve this process, Senator.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm afraid,
9 Senator, you're right, it's found itself to be
10 sort of impermutable, really not subject to
11 improvement.
12 But, Senator, I have no problem
13 at this moment with finding ways to improve
14 government and if it's -- if you wanted to do it
15 under the catchy phrase of re-inventing
16 government, that's fine. I know I was walking
17 through the maze of halls here and earlier this
18 year, there were signs all over saying "the new
19 New York."
20 I -- you know, we -- we got a lot
21 of people come up with catchy phrases. I thought
22 the old New York was pretty good. I would have
23 preferred a sign saying "the old New York," but
4856
1 be that as it may, Senator, that's not the point
2 that I'm getting at. But it's creating old New
3 York or re-inventing New York or new New York or
4 teaching people how to put one foot above the
5 other in a different way that they're doing
6 maybe it's what we should be doing, Senator, but
7 I'm just saying that all of these reports, that
8 you people love to mandate by your bills and all
9 of the training and all of the different ways of
10 doing things maybe in the long run they'll -
11 they'll save money, but you're a businessman and
12 I understand very successful and you know that
13 sometimes you've got to make initial investments
14 and you require by this bill certain action by
15 executive agencies, and I'm just pointing out to
16 you that costs money.
17 Now, if you're serious about this
18 bill, you've got to put an appropriation on it
19 and my objection is not at this moment necessar
20 ily to the merits of the bill. I'm not discuss
21 ing the merits. I'm just discussing the fact
22 that time after time, Senator Bruno, you and
23 Senator Cook who I must say I find the worst
4857
1 offender, put forward these bills that require
2 action by government but you never seem to have
3 the courage to put in any appropriation.
4 If it's such a good idea, put an
5 appropriation behind it and then, if somebody
6 attacks you and says, Oh, you're spending money,
7 you can say, but it shows that I'm really
8 serious about saving you money in the long run.
9 Now, if the sole concern is to
10 say, Look at the wonderful things I'm doing, we
11 can have -- we can save money for everybody and
12 never have to spend anything, you know, then I
13 don't think, frankly, that we can accept this as
14 a serious bill, and unless I see an appropri
15 ation, I don't know whether it even makes sense
16 to look at the merits because I don't think
17 you're being serious about it. Then it's really
18 in the nature of a press release, a press
19 statement.
20 So if you're serious, put an
21 appropriation there.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the
23 last section.
4858
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll. )
6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
7 Stachowski to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
9 President, explain my vote.
10 Just in the words of Senator
11 Bruno, it's a comparable bill -- he didn't
12 stumble like that when he said it in the other
13 house -- and so I don't understand why we're
14 passing this bill which the CSEA has so much
15 trouble with and the comptroller isn't
16 supporting but the Comptroller has a different
17 bill, and so if there's another alternative that
18 may not have the opposition this one has, I
19 don't understand the purpose of doing such a
20 controversial bill which apparently doesn't have
21 a bill that's going to be passed along with it
22 matching in the other house.
23 So other than gaining position
4859
1 for Senator Bruno, I don't see what the real
2 purpose of this, and I thought the reason for
3 this government is to find a bill, that we have
4 compromise, and the Governor signs that will
5 make maybe government more streamlined and more
6 effective and more efficient rather than
7 something that just puts everything in an
8 awkward position.
9 So I vote in the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
11 Stachowski in the negative.
12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
13 the negative on Calendar Number 1098 are
14 Senators Connor, Galiber, Gold, Kruger,
15 Leichter, Markowitz, Nanula, Ohrenstein,
16 Onorato, Smith, Solomon, Stachowski and Waldon.
17 Ayes 38. Excuse me. Also Senator Oppenheimer.
18 Ayes 37, nays 14.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Recognize
22 Senator Levy.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator
4860
1 Levy.
2 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr.
3 President. I was out of the chamber on June 6th
4 when a vote on 1004, Senate Print 3302-A, was
5 taken, and I'd like the record to reflect that
6 had I been in the chamber, I would have voted in
7 the affirmative on that bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
9 record will so indicate.
10 Senator Holland.
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
12 on page 12, I offer the following amendments to
13 Calendar Number 593, Senate Print Number 7281,
14 for Senator Daly, and ask that the said bill
15 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: So
17 ordered.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
19 I wish to call up Senator Saland's bill, Print
20 Number 7834 recalled from the Assembly which is
21 now at the desk.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:
23 Secretary will call the roll.
4861
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 Saland, Senate Bill Number 7834, an act to amend
3 the Domestic Relations Law.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
5 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
6 bill was passed.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the
8 roll on reconsideration.
9 (The Secretary called the roll on
10 reconsideration. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
13 I now offer the following amendments.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: So
15 ordered.
16 Any other housekeeping?
17 Senator Padavan.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
19 there being no further business, I move that we
20 adjourn until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate
22 will stand adjourned until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.
23 (Whereupon at 4:59 p.m., the
4862
1 Senate adjourned. )
2
3
4
5
6
7