Regular Session - June 15, 1994

                                                                 
5006

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                        June 15, 1994

        11                          12:05 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                        REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
5007

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Senators please come to the

         4       chamber.

         5                      All please rise for the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate joined in

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                      In the absence of clergy, we'll

        10       please bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        11                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        12       silence.)

        13                      Reading of the Journal.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        15       Tuesday, June 14.  The Senate met pursuant to

        16       adjournment.  Senator Kuhl in the chair upon

        17       designation of the Temporary President.  Prayer

        18       by the Reverend Peter G. Young of the Blessed

        19       Sacrament Church of Bolton Landing.  The Journal

        20       of Monday, June 13, was read and approved.

        21                      On motion, Senate adjourned.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  If

        23       there's no objection, the Journal stands











                                                             
5008

         1       approved as read.

         2                      Presentation of petitions.

         3                      Messages from the Assembly.

         4                      Messages from the Governor.

         5                      Reports of standing committees.

         6                      Motions and resolutions.

         7                      Senator Farley.

         8                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  On behalf of Senator Libous, Mr.

        10       President, I wish to call up his bill which is

        11       Senate Print 8362 -- it's Print Number 8362,

        12       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the

        13       desk.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        17       Libous, Senate Bill 8362, an act to amend the

        18       Mental Hygiene Law.

        19                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now move to

        20       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        21       passed.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.











                                                             
5009

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         2       reconsideration.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 31.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is before the house.

         6                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now offer the

         7       following amendments.

         8                      On behalf of Senator Holland, Mr.

         9       President, I wish to call up his bill which is

        10       on page 44, and I offer the following amendments

        11       to Calendar Number 1133, Senate Print 8344, and

        12       I ask that that bill retain its place on the

        13       Third Reading Calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  So

        15       ordered.

        16                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        17       Senator Velella, please place a sponsor star on

        18       Calendar Number 1181.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        20       is starred at the request of the sponsor.

        21                      Any other motions and

        22       resolutions?

        23                      (There was no response.)











                                                             
5010

         1                      Substitutions.  Secretary will

         2       read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 31 of

         4       today's calendar, Senator Cook moves to

         5       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

         6       Bill Number 10529 and substitute it for the

         7       identical Calendar Number 1167.

         8                      On page 32, Senator Smith moves

         9       to discharge the Committee on Cities from

        10       Assembly Bill Number 8068A and substitute it for

        11       the identical Calendar Number 1169.

        12                      Also on page 32, Senator Connor

        13       moves to discharge the Committee on Cities from

        14       Assembly Bill Number 9451 and substitute it for

        15       the identical Calendar Number 1171.

        16                      On page 33, Senator Velella moves

        17       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        18       Assembly Bill Number 11408A and substitute it

        19       for the identical Calendar Number 1181.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        21       Substitutions ordered.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's take up











                                                             
5011

         1       the noncontroversial calendar, please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         3       Secretary will read the noncontroversial

         4       calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5,

         6       Calendar Number 199, by Senator Skelos, Senate

         7       Bill Number 6552A, an act to amend the

         8       Correction Law, in relation to enacting the sex

         9       offender registration act.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       282, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        15       437D, an act to amend the Environmental

        16       Conservation Law, in relation to permitting

        17       certain advertising in the Adirondack Park.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        20       aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       478, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        23       5881B, an act to amend the Family Court Act.











                                                             
5012

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         3       aside for the day.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       586, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number

         6       7057B, an act to amend the Administrative Code

         7       of the City of New York.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        10       aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       872, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number

        13       7198A, an act to amend the Administrative Code

        14       of the City of New York.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        16       last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 31.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill











                                                             
5013

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       922, by Member of the Assembly Bennett, Assembly

         4       Bill Number 5058B, Executive Law, in relation to

         5       state aid to rural areas.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         8       aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1065, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        11       Assembly Bill Number 8734A, an act to amend the

        12       Education Law and Chapter 327 of the Laws of

        13       1992.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        15       last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 31.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
5014

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1161, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

         3       1362, an act to amend the -

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         6       aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1162, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

         9       1425, an act to amend the Town Law, in relation

        10       to exemption from the spending limits of fire

        11       districts.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        13       last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 31.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1163, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number











                                                             
5015

         1       1426, an act to amend the Town Law, in relation

         2       to exemption from the spending limits of fire

         3       districts.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         5       last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 33.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1164, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 2068,

        16       authorize the County of Yates to convey certain

        17       lands used for reforestation purposes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

        19       rule message is at the desk.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        22       aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5016

         1       1166, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number

         2       4136, an act to amend the Tax Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         4       last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1167, substituted earlier today, by Member of

        15       the Assembly Gunther, Assembly Bill Number

        16       10529, an act to amend the Town Law, in relation

        17       to the qualifications of police commissioners.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        19       last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5017

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1168, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

         7       4822, an act to amend the Town Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         9       last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1169, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        20       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8068A,

        21       authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its

        22       interest in certain real property.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  There is











                                                             
5018

         1       a home rule message at the desk.

         2                      Read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1170, by Senator Daly.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        14       for the day.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        16       aside for the day.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1171, substituted earlier today, by Member of

        19       the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Bill Number 9451,

        20       authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its

        21       interest in certain real property.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

        23       rule message is at the desk.











                                                             
5019

         1                      Read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1172, by Senator Gold, Senate Bill Number 6849A,

        12       authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its

        13       interest in certain real property.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

        15       rule message is at the desk.

        16                      Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill











                                                             
5020

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1173, by Senator Wright.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         6       aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1174, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

         9       6879, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

        11       rule message is at the desk.

        12                      Read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.  Nays

        19       1.  Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1175, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number











                                                             
5021

         1       6909, legalize, ratify, confirm and validate the

         2       acts and proceedings of the Town of Amenia.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

         4       rule message is at the desk.

         5                      Read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1176, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

        16       6961, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

        18       rule message is at the desk.

        19                      Read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5022

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.  Nays

         3       1.  Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1177, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7052,

         8       an act to amend the State Administrative

         9       Procedure Act, in relation to regulatory

        10       flexibility.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        12       last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1178, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number

        23       7128, an act to amend the Town Law.











                                                             
5023

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Home

         2       rule message is at the desk.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1179, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7142,

         8       State Administrative Procedure Act, in relation

         9       to model plans or documents.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1180, by Senator Seward.

        15                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        17       aside.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  For the day.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  For the

        20       day.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1182, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        23       7772, authorize the Commissioner of General











                                                             
5024

         1       Services to convey certain land in Clinton

         2       County.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         4       temporarily.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

         6       aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1183, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7776,

         9       State Administrative Procedure Act.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1184, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number

        15       7800, Real Property Tax Law.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        18       aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1185, by Senator Rath -- excuse me.  1185, by

        21       Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 7948,

        22       authorize the Commissioner of General Services

        23       to convey real property.











                                                             
5025

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         2       last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1186, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number

        13       7975.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Lay it

        16       aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1187, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8002A,

        19       State Administrative Procedure Act.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        21       last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5026

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1190, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8547,

         9       authorizing the assessor of the County of Nassau

        10       to accept an application for exemption from real

        11       property taxes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        13       last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      Senator Present, that completes

        23       the noncontroversial calendar.











                                                             
5027

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Stand at ease

         2       just for a moment or two.

         3                      (Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the

         4       Senate was at ease.)

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         7       Leichter.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  While we're at

         9       ease if we can just do something in the nature

        10       of housekeeping.  I understand there is a

        11       resolution on the desk by Senator Markowitz; and

        12       on his behalf, I would like to move that

        13       resolution.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Can you

        15       give us a couple minutes, Senator Leichter.

        16       We're going to try to locate that for you.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Sure.  Thank

        18       you.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        20       Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Will you please

        22       remove the star on Calendar Number 429.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Calendar











                                                             
5028

         1       429, the sponsor is removed -- the sponsor is

         2       removed?  The star is removed at the request of

         3       the sponsor.

         4                      Senator Stafford.

         5                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.  I would announce an immediate

         7       meeting of the Committee on Finance in Room

         8       332.  Finance in 332.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        10       Immediate Finance Committee meeting in Room 332.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        12       Will you recognize Senator Ohrenstein, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        14       Ohrenstein.

        15                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Yes, thank

        16       you, Mr. President, and I rise to a very

        17       important piece of legislative business this

        18       morning, and I offer a resolution which is at

        19       the desk, and would you please read the title.

        20       I think the title will be self explanatory.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        22       Secretary will read the title.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative











                                                             
5029

         1       resolution, by Senators Ohrenstein, Marino, and

         2       Oppenheimer, honoring the New York Ranger hockey

         3       team on the occasion of their championship win

         4       over the Vancouver Canucks in Madison Square

         5       Garden, New York City.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         7       Ohrenstein.

         8                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  I would like

         9       to be heard.

        10                      Mr. President.  The reason this

        11       resolution is offered by the particular sponsors

        12       is quite evident.  I am lucky to have Madison

        13       Square Garden and the home of the Rangers in my

        14       district.  Senator Oppenheimer hosts the Rangers

        15       in her district when they practice, and Senator

        16       Marino is necessary to get this resolution

        17       passed in this house.  And I know he is a great

        18       fan of the Rangers.

        19                      But what I would like to really

        20       say is this.  You know there are a lot of people

        21       in this chamber and in the other chamber and up

        22       here who have been laboring hard for many, many

        23       years to help New York and to restore New York











                                                             
5030

         1       to its grandeur and to help us in economic

         2       development and all of the lofty goals which we

         3       debate about, but like everybody else in life,

         4       in order to succeed, you need a lot of hard work

         5       and a lot of good ideas but you also need a

         6       little luck.

         7                      And I think we in New York City

         8       and in New York State are very, very lucky this

         9       year because we have not one but two

        10       championship teams playing at the highest level

        11       of sports in the United States, and one of those

        12       teams, of course, is the New York Rangers, and

        13       they have actually done it, and they were the

        14       first to do it.

        15                      The Stanley Cup has been a golden

        16       grail for residents of New York City for many,

        17       many years.  The Islanders, you know, were

        18       always ahead of us.  And I really want to

        19       commend Senator Marino for being so gracious to

        20       sponsor this resolution.

        21                      But it was a very difficult few

        22       years to have to put up with that.  There is

        23       nobody like the New York Rangers and it took











                                                             
5031

         1       them 54 years to restore themselves to glory,

         2       but in doing that, they've also restored the

         3       City of New York and the whole Metropolitan

         4       Region to glory.

         5                      And so I offer this resolution,

         6       commend them for what turned out to be a very,

         7       very gritty championship series.  Everybody -- I

         8       was just saying everybody seems to complain.

         9       Why didn't they win going away?  Why didn't they

        10       win, you know, four straights?  Why aren't the

        11       Knicks doing better?

        12                      Well, this is the championship,

        13       and the championship should be hard, and the

        14       championship should bring out the best in

        15       people, and I think the kind of courage and

        16       determination that we saw last night at that

        17       particular game and throughout these playoffs is

        18       really exemplary of the highest standards of

        19       sportsmanship.  And, certainly, I think it

        20       exemplified New Yorkers as we like to know them,

        21       gritty, hard-fighting, and never giving up.

        22                      So I'm very pleased to offer this

        23       resolution before this house and then hopefully











                                                             
5032

         1       to send it on to the Rangers as a token of the

         2       appreciation of the Legislature for this

         3       magnificent victory, and I hope to be back here

         4       next week to offer a similar resolution for the

         5       New York Knicks.

         6                      This is open for sponsorship by

         7       anyone in the chamber.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  On the

         9       resolution.

        10                      Senator Waldon.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        12       much, Mr. President.

        13                      I watched the game last evening,

        14       and I join heartily with Senator Ohrenstein and

        15       Senator Marino and others in the sponsorship and

        16       support of this resolution.  It was one of those

        17       moment in sports where everybody really feels

        18       good.

        19                      It was sad to see Vancouver lose,

        20       and it was for certain that they lost painfully

        21       because the players were openly crying right on

        22       the ice, but it was joyful to see the Rangers

        23       win, not only because they are the best team in











                                                             
5033

         1       hockey right now but because they represent New

         2       York and New York City, and it's goods to be

         3       with the winner.

         4                      I fell in love with hockey in

         5       France when I was in the United States Army, and

         6       we used to go to watch the Canadian hockey teams

         7       play, and I didn't realize it was such a great

         8       sport.  But it is a great game.  The New York

         9       Rangers are a great team, and last night was a

        10       great victory for all of us.

        11                      And I'm very proud to be a New

        12       Yorker and proud to be supportive of the New

        13       York Rangers.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        15       Present.

        16                      Senator Rath.

        17                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes.  On behalf of

        18       the other members of the Western New York

        19       delegation -- I didn't mean to supersede Senator

        20       Present.  He maybe was going to say the same

        21       thing.  But, of course, Western New York is the

        22       home of the Buffalo Sabres.  We wish the New

        23       York Rangers all the best.  We're very happy for











                                                             
5034

         1       them.  As long as it couldn't be us, we're glad

         2       it was the New York Rangers.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         4       Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I'm sure all

         6       members of the Senate would like to join the

         7       sponsors of this resolution.  Add all their

         8       names.  There might be an exemption.  I doubt

         9       it.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  All

        11       members of the Senate will be placed on the

        12       resolution, unless there are any disgruntled

        13       Islander fans that don't want to be placed on

        14       it.

        15                      On the resolution, all those in

        16       favor, signify by saying aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Those opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The resolution is adopted.

        21                      Senator Ohrenstein, the chair

        22       will note -- I don't know if there's any

        23       significance -- that someone wanted to number











                                                             
5035

         1       the Resolution 1940, but we didn't do that.

         2                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  I think

         3       that's very appropriate.

         4                      (Whereupon, the Senate continued

         5       at ease for a moment and then reconvened.)

         6                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Mr.

         7       President.  I understand that there is a

         8       resolution at the desk sponsored by Senator

         9       Markowitz, and I would like to ask you to read

        10       the title of that resolution.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        12       Secretary will read the title.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        14       Resolution, by Senator Markowitz, honoring

        15       Arline and Bernard Simon for distinguished

        16       community service upon the occasion of their

        17       selection as honorees at Temple Beth Emeth

        18       Progressive Shaari Zedek's 82nd Anniversary

        19       celebration.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  On the

        21       resolution, all those in favor, signify by

        22       saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
5036

         1                      Those opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The resolution is adopted.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         6       May we stand at ease.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Stand at

         8       ease.

         9                      (The Senate continued at ease.)

        10                      (Whereupon, Senator Kuhl was in

        11       the chair.)

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        13       will come to order.

        14                      Chair recognizes Senator Spano.

        15                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.  I

        16       would like to announce an immediate meeting of

        17       the Labor Committee in Room 332 for a short

        18       three-bill agenda.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

        20       meeting of the Labor Committee in Room 332, the

        21       Majority Conference Room.

        22                      (Whereupon, having been at ease,

        23       at 1:10 p.m., the Senate reconvened.)











                                                             
5037

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         4       Would you recognize Senator Marchi.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Marchi.

         7                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President.

         8       I am requesting consideration of a privileged

         9       resolution that is now at the desk, resolution

        10       mourning the passing of the Grand Rabbi Menachem

        11       Schneerson.  I would request that the resolution

        12       be read in its entirety, and then I will speak

        13       to it.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes,

        15       there is a privileged resolution at the desk.

        16                      Secretary will read it in its

        17       entirety.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        19       Resolution, by Senators Marchi, Ohrenstein and

        20       all members of the Senate, mourning the passing

        21       of Grand Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson,

        22       teacher, scholar and beloved leader of the

        23       Lubavitch Hasidic movement of world Jewry at the











                                                             
5038

         1       age of 92.

         2                      Whereas, a Russia-born and

         3       Sorbonne-educated scholar, Rabbi Menachem Mendel

         4       Schneerson was the seventh in the line of Grand

         5       Rabbis, or Rebbes, of an Orthodox Jewish sect

         6       dating from the 18th century, he rescued

         7       Lubavitch Hasidism and brought it from near

         8       extinction to the forefront of world Jewry

         9       through his spiritual fervor, charismatic

        10       personality and an innovative approach to

        11       outreach which involved such common methods as

        12       facsimiles of Talmudic disserations and "Mitzvah

        13       Tanks," trailers used as recruiting stations on

        14       the streets of New York City.

        15                      Emigrating to the United States

        16       with his beloved wife, Chaya Moussia, in 1941 to

        17       avoid Nazi persecution, young Rabbi Schneerson

        18       accepted the responsibility to restore the

        19       Lubavitch Hasidism decimated by the Holocaust,

        20       and, in 1951, he succeeded his father-in-law,

        21       Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneerson, as Grand Rabbi

        22       of the sect.

        23                      With a modern-day membership











                                                             
5039

         1       estimated at between 100,000 to 300,000, Rabbi

         2       Schneerson's followers represent one of the

         3       worlds most powerful Hasidic sects, with an

         4       influence far beyond their numbers; his Crown

         5       Heights headquarters would becaome the seat of

         6       ultra-orthodoxy as it flourished, spreading as

         7       far afield as the Knesset of Israel and

         8       influencing decisions as far-reaching as the

         9       Palestinian peace talks.

        10                      As Lubavitcher Jews around the

        11       world mourn for their beloved and influential

        12       leader, it is a saddend and compassionate Body

        13       of the Assembly which extends on behalf of the

        14       City and State of New York its condolences to

        15       the family and followers of Grand Rabbi Menachem

        16       Mendel Schneerson, recognizing the significance

        17       of his presence, the loss of his passing, and

        18       the dynamic spiritual force his movement,

        19       Lubavitcher Hasidism, brought to the world of

        20       Judaism; now, therefore, be it

        21                      Resolved, that this Legislative

        22       Body pause in its deliberations to mourn the

        23       passing of Grand Rabbi Menachem Mendel











                                                             
5040

         1       Schneerson, teacher, scholar and revered leader

         2       of the Lubavitch Hasidic sect of world Jewry, at

         3       the age of 92; and be it further

         4                      Resolved, that copies of this

         5       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         6       to Lubavitch World Headquarters, 770 Eastern

         7       Parkway, Brooklyn, New York.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         9       recognizes Senator Marchi.

        10                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.  The resolution was drafted by

        12       Speaker Silver and expresses the feeling that's

        13       common to both houses and -- however, there are

        14       aspects that I felt might have been put in the

        15       resolution, and I will by supplementation in

        16       remarks here address them.

        17                      As was stated, the Rabbi

        18       Schneerson was a product of a very exhaustive

        19       academic preparation for the work he was later

        20       to assume, attended the University of Berlin and

        21       Sorbonne in Paris before coming to this country,

        22       and this tremendous mastery that he had of

        23       sciences, of mathematics, of culture, of











                                                             
5041

         1       cultural influences generally, and his command

         2       of philosophy was most impressive.

         3                      The work that he did -- you know,

         4       we speak of 200,000 adherents.  The resolution

         5       says from 100,000 to 300,000.  The number that

         6       they have most usually used is the number of

         7       200,000.  When you reflect on the fact that

         8       these educational centers, 1500 of them around

         9       the world in 30 different nations, have had the

        10       impact that they did, and have today, tells you

        11       something.  Two hundred thousand in a planet of

        12       six or seven billion people would not seem

        13       impressive, but the impact has certainly gone

        14       way beyond their numbers, and we have to know a

        15       little more about what Rabbi Schneerson and the

        16       Lubavitcher movement has been responsible for.

        17                      He took great inspiration from

        18       the work of Maimonides, the Rambam, back to the

        19       12th century in taking it.  When Maimonides took

        20       all of the oral law, the strong law, and gave it

        21       to us in the form of something that could be

        22       read and was organized and could be presented

        23       was a gigantic step.











                                                             
5042

         1                      Maimonides also quickened world

         2       attention to Aristotlian philosophy upon which

         3       scholasticism rests, and it had such a profound

         4       effect on Judaism at that time and also was

         5       responsible for the phenomena that has most

         6       often related to Thomas Aquinas and others that

         7       were in the scholastic philosophy, but had it

         8       not be for Maimonides to give it the initial

         9       start, it might have suffered for a while.

        10                      And Rabbi Schneerson joined that

        11       effort again in quickening world awareness of

        12       scholastic philosophy.  The autonomy of the

        13       individual, the soul and the existence of God,

        14       the spiritual aspects of humanity, of each

        15       individual, was a tremendous thought which,

        16       really, the effect was exemplified by the

        17       educational process which Rabbi Schneerson

        18       brought to it around the world.

        19                      When we consider that people like

        20       Robert Hutchings and Mortimer Adler, the editor

        21       of the Encyclopedia Britainnica, were two of the

        22       great scholastics of this century, and Rabbi

        23       Schneerson served as principal most admirably.











                                                             
5043

         1       His urging that people do good not only to

         2       members within their own religious persuasion

         3       but throughout the length and breadth of the

         4       societies in which they lived goes further.

         5                      I read the resumes that were

         6       written, and it was a fairly impressive

         7       initiative that was engaged in by the author of

         8       the article in the New York Times, but there are

         9       items in it that really require further

        10       comment.

        11                      Rabbi Zalmen Marozov of Montreal

        12       perhaps came closest to expressing the essence

        13       of what Rabbi Schneerson represented.  Rabbi

        14       Marozov is from Montreal, and he said, "Once he

        15       [meaning Rabbi Schneerson] is out of the body,

        16       it is the soul, and you have no more

        17       limitations.  Hopefully he can accomplish

        18       everyithing he wanted to now."

        19                      So, again, he was recognizing the

        20       spirituality of the individual.  On the other

        21       hand, the psychologist Leon Festinger, who

        22       studied the phenomenon of cognitive dissonance,

        23       the anxiety that results from holding two











                                                             
5044

         1       contradictory beliefs, he -- he seeks a

         2       psychological answer to this, ignoring the fact

         3       that he is working in another context, a context

         4       that we can analogize even with study of earth

         5       sciences, the likes of mathematics and physics.

         6       When we consider what happened, for instance,

         7       with Ptolemy being accepted as something logical

         8       and something inevitable in our thinking,

         9       Euclidean mathematics, how that process

        10       underwent great changes when we reach Galileo

        11       and Copernicus and, later on, the quantum

        12       mechanics, even these realities in the real

        13       world really are at odds with the comments that

        14       were made by psychologists.

        15                      For instance, Professor Daniel

        16       Batson, professor of psychology at the

        17       University of Kansas, remarks that "Logically it

        18       doesn't make sense," what Rabbi Schneerson was

        19       talking to and then reversed the psychology for

        20       answers, again missing the fact that we are

        21       dealing with the spirituality of the individual,

        22       and this is important.

        23                      I mean this is why 200,000 people











                                                             
5045

         1       and this Rabbi had made the impact that they did

         2       around the world.  It wasn't an exercise in

         3       reconciling psychological tensions.  It was an

         4       exercise in professing that which is the

         5       spiritual foundation of much of our society,

         6       that we are creatures created in a divine

         7       image.  We are creatures who have a spiritual

         8       autonomy.  We left the worship of rocks and

         9       stones and the sun and all these other concepts;

        10       and the philosophical and theological

        11       foundations of our faiths that dominate so much

        12       of our world are the disciplines that he

        13       addressed so well.

        14                      So I believe that we should take

        15       these into consideration, because it goes

        16       beyond, even with the wording that we have in

        17       our resolution, of the service and the

        18       contribution that he made within the world of

        19       Judaism, because Rabbi Schneerson's educational

        20       activities throughout the globe have enriched -

        21       I say this -- have enriched and strenghtened the

        22       religious, educational, cultural, moral and

        23       ethical fibers of all the citizens of the











                                                             
5046

         1       world.  So that this very urbane and wonderful

         2       individual must be recognized in all of the

         3       dimensions that he filled.

         4                      I had the privilege of meeting

         5       him one on one for, oh, well, up to about 45

         6       minutes of conversation, and the ease with which

         7       he slipped -- slipped into a personal

         8       concentration on the subject of whatever we were

         9       discussing at the time, most of it

        10       philosophical, the individual reached out.  You

        11       knew that it had his total attention.

        12                      And members of the Lubavitcher -

        13       the group, that so many people, thousands of

        14       people going to him for detailed advice on even

        15       the mundane matters, the great interest that he

        16       took in the spiritual life of people on a one to

        17       one basis, I experienced this myself.  And I

        18       began to appreciate the enormous impact that he

        19       must have had with those people who had

        20       entrusted and brought the important problems to

        21       him which he discussed so willingly and so

        22       positively in terms of a resolution that gave

        23       them comfort and solace.











                                                             
5047

         1                      And it explains why, why there

         2       was such an outpouring of grief when he passed

         3       away, and I believe that he survives.  He

         4       survives in -- certainly his soul is there, and

         5       it's a great work that he has accomplished that

         6       enriches us all, all of society.

         7                      And I just wanted to emphasize

         8       the dimensions of this individual who has gone

         9       to his eternal reward as a matter that we know

        10       that we will all miss him, and we are grateful

        11       for the fact that he worked amongst us for the

        12       years that he did, many years, and accomplished

        13       so much good for mankind.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        15       recognizes Senator Ohrenstein.

        16                      SENATOR OHRENSTEIN:  Mr.

        17       President.  I want to express my appreciation to

        18       Senator Marchi for sponsoring this resolution

        19       and taking the lead on it.  I think he is the

        20       most appropriate person here, because John

        21       Marchi has become the resident scholar on

        22       religious matters in this chamber, and I say

        23       that with a smile in some ways, but I mean it in











                                                             
5048

         1       every way.  I think thoughtfulness and the

         2       scholarship that Senator Marchi has exhibited

         3       over the years is rather extraordinary, and it's

         4       a tribute to his own deep conviction in his own

         5       faith, which I think makes him such an

         6       exceptional member of this chamber, and it's

         7       also appropriate that he be the sponsor for that

         8       reason of this passing of a very, very great and

         9       revered individual.

        10                      I want to speak very briefly on

        11       this as a member of the Jewish faith.  Rabbi

        12       Schneerson, the Rebbe, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, is

        13       a very, very extraordinary figure among Jews.

        14       The Jewish faith is a very complicated faith.

        15       There are many facets to it.  There are many

        16       divisions to it.  Many people who profess

        17       religiousity in a very orthodox way; others in

        18       more modern forms.  There are great divisions in

        19       that faith about some very weighty matters of

        20       religion and doctrine.

        21                      And so Judaism is a very

        22       complicated community when it comes to its

        23       religious faith.  There is a very secular part











                                                             
5049

         1       to that community that does not profess faith in

         2       the Almighty particularly, but really it

         3       continues to adhere to the Jewish community as a

         4       cultural, national and social matter.

         5                      The reason I say this is because

         6       the most extraordinary thing about the

         7       Lubavitcher Rebbe is that all facets of this

         8       very complicated community revered him and

         9       respected him and looked to him for leadership,

        10       even in matters where they disagreed with him.

        11       He was -- he is, was, one of those very

        12       extraordinary individuals who become leaders in

        13       this world.  Some are political people who go

        14       beyond the area of politics or national or

        15       international leadership and also become moral

        16       examples and moral leaders.  And then,

        17       occasionally, a clergyman arises out of the

        18       hundreds and thousands of members of the clergy

        19       who so diligently serve us and becomes an

        20       extraordinary figure.

        21                      Pope John was such a figure,

        22       whose passing was mourned and revered by the

        23       whole world.  And Rabbi Schneerson is in that











                                                             
5050

         1       category of individual.  He preached a dedicated

         2       faith.  He was able to surround himself with a

         3       group of hundreds of thousands of dedicated

         4       individuals who were propigators of that faith

         5       throughout the world.

         6                      And his very dedication, his very

         7       reverence for his faith, for his people, for God

         8       as he interpreted God to be, was an

         9       extraordinarily compelling force throughout the

        10       Jewish community and throughout the world.

        11                      I take one bit of historical

        12       credit.  I moved to Crown Heights at the same

        13       time the Lubavitchers moved to Crown Heights.  I

        14       used to live in Brownsville.  I grew up in

        15       Brownsville.  I wasn't born but I grew up in

        16       Brownsville in Brooklyn.  I'm still a Brooklyn

        17       boy, Marty Markowitz.  And I moved to Crown

        18       Heights in 1948 at just about the same time that

        19       the Lubavitcher group acquired -- what is it,

        20       770? -- 770 Eastern Parkway, and I actually

        21       lived about two blocks from there.

        22                      So I was there at the inception,

        23       and I watched this movement grow, and it was and











                                                             
5051

         1       is an extraordinary, extraordinary event that

         2       such a small group, as Senator Marchi indicated,

         3       of dedicated religious people can have the kind

         4       of effect they have, controversial as they are.

         5       And they are controversial in many, many ways

         6       both amongst Jews and amongst the world at

         7       large, but no one could every doubt their

         8       reverence, the dedication to their faith, the

         9       dedication to humanity, the dedication to

        10       morality in the deepest and most comprehensive

        11       sense of the word, and that is the deep

        12       understanding of humanity and the need for

        13       humanity's action, for human beings' actions of

        14       one to another of righteousness and of rightness

        15       in their conduct of themselves and towards each

        16       other.

        17                      And so he and this group have

        18       become great moral leaders in the Jewish

        19       community and in the world at large, and it is

        20       rather a really historic movement that this man

        21       has passed.  He passed in his mortal

        22       configuration.  There are those of his adherents

        23       who believe that he is the Messaih and that he











                                                             
5052

         1       will return again.

         2                      Whether the rest of us believe

         3       that or not is irrelevant.  What is relevant is

         4       that his preachings and his example, his moral

         5       example, his religious example, his example as a

         6       dedicated Jew toward Judaism and humanity at

         7       large, those are the things that will survive

         8       him.  And whether the mystical part of the

         9       belief of the Lubavitchers is believed by

        10       everybody, as I said, is not really relevant.

        11       What is relevant is that his adherers believe

        12       it, and his adherers will continue to preach

        13       their particular brand of the religiousity, will

        14       continue to work in his example and in his role

        15       and perpetuate his memory and his work for many,

        16       many years.

        17                      And to that extent, he is and

        18       will be a historical figure, and I appreciate

        19       Senator Marchi and Speaker Silver putting this

        20       resolution before us so we can take some small

        21       part in this remembrance.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Markowitz.











                                                             
5053

         1                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

         2       very, very much.  Thank you also, Senator

         3       Marchi.

         4                      I have represented the Lubavitch

         5       communities since the day I was elected, 16

         6       years ago, and I can attest to the positive

         7       contributions made by the Rebbe and by the

         8       Lubavitcher movement in terms of the

         9       rejuvenation of the Crown Heights community.

        10                      One thing that the Rebbe did, he

        11       encouraged his activists to reach beyond the

        12       Hasidic group to work with African and Caribbean

        13       Americans, to work with Latinos, to work with

        14       the general population that lived in and around

        15       the Crown Heights area and organized service

        16       organizations to reach out beyond the one faith

        17       and to reach out to all faiths, and tremendous

        18       and as modern as you can imagine.  Modern

        19       telecommunications, organizations utilizing

        20       state of the art in terms of helping out, in

        21       terms of drug rehabilitation, crime prevention,

        22       weatherization and a host of other programs

        23       serving the general community.











                                                             
5054

         1                      You know, we Jews unlike

         2       Catholics do not have a supreme religious

         3       leader, as you know, very much like the

         4       Protestant faith.  But Rabbi Schneerson is as

         5       close as you get to us as acknowledged leader of

         6       the Jewish faith.

         7                      In keeping with Hasidic

         8       traditions, I was at the funeral on Sunday.  You

         9       may know that there are no eulogies.  At no

        10       Hasidic funeral are there eulogies or even a

        11       statement from those that mourn the passing of

        12       anyone of the Hasidic faith, including the

        13       Rebbe.

        14                      And so in keeping with that, my

        15       statement is very clear.  We mourn his death,

        16       and we celebrate his life.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        18       recognizes Senator Gold.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

        20                      Mr. President.  First on a

        21       procedural basis, I would hope that the

        22       resolution is open for the membership.

        23                      Everybody is on it already.  I











                                                             
5055

         1       just wanted to make sure that that was done.

         2                      Mr. President.  I had a professor

         3       in college, government professor, and he said

         4       that the American government is federal because

         5       the people say it is.  What he meant by that is

         6       that under the Constitution that we have, there

         7       were many different kinds of interpretations,

         8       and many different ways we could have gone.

         9                      That really goes with a lot of

        10       things.  It goes with Biblical study.  It goes

        11       with all kind of areas.  And during the Passover

        12       service, there is a story of an enemy of Jews

        13       who wanted to slaughter rabbis, and he took the

        14       Bible and said, "You know the brothers of Joseph

        15       did this terrible thing and, therefore, even

        16       though it's a long, long time ago, under Jewish

        17       law we're going to hold everybody responsible

        18       and they slaughtered rabbis.

        19                      They used a holy document for

        20       that evil.  We live in a world where people

        21       teach hate and people teach killing.  Some

        22       people do it in buildings that are meant to be

        23       holy buildings.  Some people have killed











                                                             
5056

         1       unfortunately millions, and they invoke the name

         2       of the Almighty.

         3                      I say this because if the

         4       Lubavitch movement is what Senator Marchi said

         5       and what Senator Ohrenstein and Senator

         6       Markowitz and others say, you've got to give

         7       enormous credit to the Rebbe who has fashioned

         8       that movement all these years.

         9                      Judaism is built upon study of

        10       Talmud and Torah.  And, yes, if you read the

        11       words, they should lead you -- they should lead

        12       you to a very moral life, and they should lead

        13       you to a life that teaches good deeds and

        14       respect for fellowman.  But that doesn't always

        15       come out that way; and, again, if it does,

        16       you've got to, in my opinion, give enormous

        17       credit to the Rebbe and what he did with that

        18       movement.

        19                      There was a woman who was

        20       interviewed on television and radio in the last

        21       few days who said something that I have heard

        22       from many, many people.  People would wait for

        23       hours for a few minutes of time to get advice or











                                                             
5057

         1       to talk to the Rebbe, and they were amazed.  He

         2       would look at them and he would know things.

         3       This is the woman speaking.  "He would know

         4       things and he could say something to you that

         5       was totally relevant to your life and to why you

         6       had come to see the Rebbe and you didn't even

         7       have to say a word."

         8                      He was a man who would go out and

         9       give people a dollar, and I think that that's

        10       got to be internationally known as one of the

        11       symbols, if that's the right word.  He would

        12       give people a dollar with a very simple message,

        13       "Do a good deed."  He didn't tell you what good

        14       deed to do, and he didn't tell you where you

        15       should be going or he didn't point -- he says do

        16       a good deed.

        17                      I will never forget the first

        18       time I was approached on the streets of New York

        19       by a member of the Lubavitch movement who was

        20       working out of Mitzvah wagon.  I have seen

        21       people all over downtown New York, on street

        22       corners and other places, preaching religion of

        23       one sort or another.  I was never approached as











                                                             
5058

         1       these people approached.  They approached me as

         2       a Jew to do something in a religious nature, and

         3       it wasn't pushy.  It wasn't offensive.  It was

         4       gentle.  It was concerned.  It was caring.  It

         5       was a human reaching out and saying, "You got a

         6       minute say a prayer."  "You want to bring some

         7       candles home?  Your wife can light candles

         8       Friday tonight or whatever."

         9                      Just beautiful people coming out

        10       and into the world to try to make it better.

        11       And where does that come from?  It came from

        12       this wonderful, magnificent man who developed

        13       and led that movement.

        14                      I respect what Senator Markowitz

        15       said about traditions.  But the fact is that I'm

        16       glad we have this opportunity to say some

        17       things, and I know certainly while I am not a

        18       member of that movement, I feel a great sense of

        19       personal loss, and I think the community at

        20       large really has suffered a major loss.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        23       favor, signify by saying aye.











                                                             
5059

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Those opposed, nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The resolution is unanimously

         5       adopted.

         6                      Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         8       Can we return to reports of standing committees.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Clerk

        10       will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford

        12       from the Committee on Finance reports the

        13       following nominations:

        14                      Member of the State Council on

        15       the Arts, Samuel H. Lindenbaum, Esq., of New

        16       York City.

        17                      Member of the Empire State Plaza

        18       Art Commission, Marijo Dougherty of Schenectady.

        19                      Member of the Board of Directors

        20       of the Great Lakes Protection Fund, Henry G.

        21       Williams of Guilderland.

        22                      Member of the Small Business

        23       Advisory Board, William Hockenberger of Penfield











                                                             
5060

         1       and Jennifer L. Carey of Bayshore.

         2                      Member of the Public Health

         3       Council, Leo P. Brideau of Rochester.

         4                      Member of the Buffalo and Fort

         5       Erie Public Bridge Authority, Rita J. Crangle of

         6       Buffalo.

         7                      Member of the Port of Oswego

         8       Authority, Christopher C. Dain of Oswego.

         9                      Member of the Passenger Tramway

        10       Advisory Council, Ronald G. Bernhard of

        11       Voohreesville, Gerald R. Fielding of Monticello,

        12       William Gilber                 t of Rye Brook,
and James R. Ruhl

        13       of Ballston Lake.

        14                      Member of the Advisory Board on

        15       Public Work, Neil B. Burnside of Caledonia and

        16       Jeffrey J. Zogg of Delmar.

        17                      Member of the New York State

        18       Olympic Regional Development Authority, Robert

        19       W. Bouchard of Menands.

        20                      Member of the New York State

        21       Hospital Review and Planning Council, John M.

        22       Brown of Orchard Park, Christine Tassone Kovner

        23       of New York City and Shiela Mary Smythe of New











                                                             
5061

         1       York City.

         2                      Member of the Advisory Council to

         3       the Commission on Quality of Care for the

         4       Mentally Disabled, Esperanza Isaac of New York

         5       City.

         6                      Member of the Council on Human

         7       Blood and Transfusion Services, Robert Kratzel,

         8       Ph.D., of Getzville.

         9                      Member of the Finger Lakes State

        10       Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation

        11       Commission, Robert E. Agan of Elmira.

        12                      Member of the Thousand Island

        13       State Park, Recreation and Historic Commission,

        14       John E. Stewart of Plattsburgh and Barry R.

        15       Worczak of Lyons Falls.

        16                      Member of the Administrative

        17       Review Board for Professional Medical Conduct,

        18       Sumner Shapiro of Delmar.

        19                      Member of the Board of Directors

        20       of the New York State Science and Technology

        21       Foundation, Evelyn Berezin of East Setauket.

        22                      Member of the Advisory Council on

        23       Agriculture, Samuel J. Casella of Canandaigua,











                                                             
5062

         1       Jeremiah P. Cosgrove of Round Lake, Charles F.

         2       Scheer, Jr., of Laurel, and James L. Vincent of

         3       Byron.

         4                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         5       of the Buffalo Psychiatric Center, Carolyn S.

         6       Fenlon of West Falls, Margaret V. Lombardi of

         7       Buffalo, and Geraldine Minter of Buffalo.

         8                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         9       of the Capital District Psychiatric Center,

        10       Lewis F. Krupka of Guilderland.

        11                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        12       of Elmira Psychiatric Center, M. Patricia Lucas

        13       of Elmira, and Wendy Potter of North Hornell.

        14                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        15       of the Hudson River Psychiatric Center, Linda

        16       Bryer-Green of Poughkeepsie.

        17                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        18       of the Kingsborough Psychiatric Center, Shirley

        19       B. Flowers of Brooklyn, and Wallace Nottage of

        20       Brooklyn.

        21                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        22       of the Kirby Forensic Psychiatric Center,

        23       Seymour B. Jacobson, M.D., of New York City, and











                                                             
5063

         1       Margaret E. Legrande of New York City.

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the Manhattan Psychiatric Center, Eugenia

         4       Evans Clarke of New York City.

         5                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         6       of Manhattan Children's Psychiatric Center,

         7       Katharine Shields of New York City.

         8                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         9       of the Mid-Hudson Psychiatric Center, C. Edgar

        10       Flynn, Jr., of Slate Hill.

        11                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        12       of the Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, Silvia

        13       Velazquez Dorsky of Malverne, Arnold Gould of

        14       Lido Beach, and Dorothy Schorr of Syosset.

        15                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        16       of the Rochester Psychiatric Center, George

        17       Follett of Albion, and Pamela S. Frame of

        18       Rochester.

        19                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        20       of the Rockland Psychiatric Center, Walter C.

        21       Blount, Jr., of Orangeburg, Barbara Greenblatt

        22       of Nyack, and Margot Vazquez of Suffern.

        23                      Member of the Board of Visitors











                                                             
5064

         1       of St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center, Imogene

         2       Wager of Ogdensburg.

         3                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         4       of Sagamore Children's Psychiatric Center,

         5       Louise P. Jones of Amityville, and Elaine Y.

         6       Reinke of Massapequa.

         7                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         8       of the South Beach Psychiatric Center, Albert C.

         9       Wiltshire of Brooklyn.

        10                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        11       of the Western New York Children's Psychiatric

        12       Center, Bertha Laury of Buffalo.

        13                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        14       of the Craig Developmental Disabilities Services

        15       Office, Mary H. Derby of Geneseo, and David M.

        16       Lane of Warsaw.

        17                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        18       of the Bernard M. Fineson Developmental Center,

        19       Beverly Berger of Bayside, and Helene

        20       Schaumberger of Douglaston.

        21                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        22       of the Manhattan Developmental Center, Willie

        23       Mae Goodman of New York City, and Walter Greene











                                                             
5065

         1       of New York City.

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the Oswald D. Heck Developmental Center,

         4       Eleanor C. Pattison of West Sand Lake, and

         5       Lucile Richards of Waterford.

         6                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         7       of the Rome Developmental Disabilities Services

         8       Office Jane G. Allen of Lyons Falls.

         9                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        10       of the Sunmount Developmental Center, Margaret

        11       Kolodzey of Moriah.

        12                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        13       of Syracuse Developmental Center, James R. Iles

        14       of Clay.

        15                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        16       of Wassaic Developmental Center, Theresa

        17       Sgrulletta of Mt. Kisco.

        18                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        19       of Wilton Developmental Center, Edward Donohue

        20       of Clifton Park.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        22       is on the confirmation of the appointment of the

        23       previously read appointees.  All those in favor,











                                                             
5066

         1       signify by saying aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Those opposed, nay.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      The appointees are confirmed.

         6                      May we return to motions and

         7       resolutions.

         8                      Senator Skelos, you have a couple

         9       of motions.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        11       I wish to call up Senator Daly's bill, Print

        12       Number 4583B, recalled from the Assembly, which

        13       is now at the desk.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Daly,

        17       Senate Bill Number 4583B, an act to amend the

        18       Real Property Law.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to

        20       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        21       passed.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       question is on the motion to reconsider the vote











                                                             
5067

         1       by which this bill was passed.  The Secretary

         2       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       reconsideration.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is before the house.

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I now offer the

        10       following amendments.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Amendments received and adopted.

        13                      Senator Skelos.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        15       On behalf of Senator Cook, I move to recommit

        16       Senate Print Number 7575, Calendar Number 617,

        17       to the Committee on Education with instructions

        18       to said committee to strike the enacting clause.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Senate bill is recommitted.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On page number

        22       14, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        23       Number 653, Senate Print Number 276, and ask











                                                             
5068

         1       that said bill retain its place on the Third

         2       Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

         5       will retain its place on the Third Reading

         6       Calendar.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         8       On behalf of Senator Daly, on page number 32, I

         9       offer the following amendments to Calendar

        10       Number 1170, Senate Print 5933, and ask that

        11       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        12       Calendar.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Amendments are received and adopted, and the

        15       bill will retain its place on the Third Reading

        16       Calendar.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  And, Mr.

        18       President, on page number 39 of the starred

        19       calendar, I offer the following amendments to

        20       Calendar Number 708, Senate Print Number 7477A,

        21       and ask that said bill retain its place on the

        22       Third Reading Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:











                                                             
5069

         1       Amendments are received and adopted, and the

         2       bill will retain its place on the Third Reading

         3       Calendar.

         4                      Senator Present.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         6       Can we take up the controversial calendar,

         7       please.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the controversial calendar.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5,

        11       Calendar Number 199, by Senator Skelos, Senate

        12       Bill Number 6552A, an act to amend the

        13       Correction Law, in relation to enacting the Sex

        14       Offender Registration Act.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Skelos, and explanation has been asked for by

        17       both Senator Galiber and Senator Gold.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  This legislation would establish the

        20       Sex Offender Registration Act in New York State

        21       which would require individuals that have been

        22       convicted of certain enumerated sex offense

        23       crimes to register with the local chief law











                                                             
5070

         1       enforcement official in the communities in which

         2       they plan to reside once they are released from

         3       prison.  Presently, there are 32 states that

         4       have similar legislation.

         5                      This legislation also provides

         6       that after ten years the individual can make

         7       application to the court to no longer be

         8       required to register where they live or annually

         9       let the local law enforcement officials know

        10       that they are still that community.  That would

        11       be at the discretion of the court.

        12                      There are also provisions that

        13       any individual that is entitled to access of

        14       these records at DCJS that if they inform

        15       anybody of this registration that they are

        16       committing a crime.

        17                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator yield?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Skelos, do you yield to Senator Galiber?

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Absolutely.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Skelos yields.

        23                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, by no











                                                             
5071

         1       means should this be interpreted as a serious

         2       objection to what you're intending to do here,

         3       but for some of us it's a bit troublesome and a

         4       a bill as sweeping as this one where you are

         5       covering 12 categories and maybe even more where

         6       these persons would be forced to register.

         7                      Working backwards, and I'll give

         8       you a philosophical approach to this which I

         9       personally have, obviously.  In the category of

        10       statutory rape, that troubles me a bit.  You

        11       have two consenting parties here who but for the

        12       age factor would probably make it a felony, I

        13       believe, depending -- and we changed it just

        14       relatively recently, five or ten years or so, is

        15       that the age bracket, I believe, that makes it a

        16       felony.  If it is under it, it's a misdemeanor

        17       so they would not be impacted on it.

        18                      Senator, we have a situation

        19       where a college student goes out with a high

        20       school student and they are two consenting

        21       parties, why should we put that category of

        22       person in this register that the other states

        23       have and you're desirous of putting in New York











                                                             
5072

         1       State law?

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Let me just say

         3       this.  First of all, there is an expungement

         4       procedure which I did outline, that after ten

         5       years this individual could go to be relieved

         6       from this requirement.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, I

         8       understand that, and there is that expunging

         9       system, but there's ten years of this person

        10       being forced to register, and I don't think it

        11       was the intent to cover this particular category

        12       of persons.

        13                      Actually, anyone who has

        14       registered in any one of the categories that you

        15       have enumerated after ten years would have an

        16       opportunity to make application to have that

        17       expunged, but I'm talking about why should, in

        18       the first instance, this category of persons be

        19       put in that 12 or 13?  Why do we have those?

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I understand

        21       your concern, Senator Galiber, but we just felt

        22       that this would be appropriate in the

        23       legislation.  I want to point out that this bill











                                                             
5073

         1       so far has been negotiated between Assemblyman

         2       Feldman and myself in terms of the terms of the

         3       legislation, but we also do expect that there

         4       will be other changes in a final version of the

         5       legislation.  And, certainly, we will take your

         6       recommendations into consideration, although in

         7       fairness to you I don't want to say that the

         8       bill -- this could be the final form, and the

         9       bill that is finally before the house, if it is

        10       amended, could have what you are concerned about

        11       in the legislation.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        13       Senator, now from a pretty practical standpoint,

        14       we have a person who has now registered, and

        15       they are in a particular geographical area, and

        16       I think that the purpose of the registration is

        17       so that if there is some subsequent crime

        18       related to those categories that they would be

        19       available to law enforcement or the

        20       investigatory arm.  How would this from a

        21       practical standpoint work?  We now have Tom Mix

        22       registered at 400 Grand Concourse, and there is

        23        -- in the second year or third year of the











                                                             
5074

         1       registration, we have someone who has committed

         2       a particular crime in that category.  The police

         3       run through the file and they see the person who

         4       went out with the high school -- the college

         5       student who went out with the high school

         6       student who consented.  Does the police have the

         7       right to go in and bring that person in?  Are

         8       there any rules or regulations?  In other words,

         9       by registering do you give up any question of

        10       probable cause or -

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I would say they

        12       can use this information to investigate, just as

        13       they can go into probation information to find

        14       out as part of their investigation procedures.

        15                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Okay.  But it

        16       doesn't take way any probable cause or some of

        17       those other criteria.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  No.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That police

        20       officer can not just go out, unless he's abusing

        21       his authority or our authority, and bring this

        22       person in because they are registered -

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  No.











                                                             
5075

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- or mere

         2       suspicion?

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  No.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  The

         5       confidentiality always troubles me.  I'm sure it

         6       troubles you, Senator, a bit.  These records

         7       that are sort of -- not closed, but they are

         8       confidential and they are not supposed to be

         9       given out as far as any basic information is

        10       concerned.  And if they do so, you claim -- not

        11       claim, but your legislation talks about it being

        12       a misdemeanor.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  It's a class B

        14       misdemeanor.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  A class B

        16       misdemeanor.  If we have these felonies in that

        17       category, is there any reason -- it's strange

        18       coming from me because I don't believe in

        19       enhancing sentencing, but it's so crucial that

        20       if this information would be misused or leaked

        21       out, if you will, and we're fortunate enough to

        22       apprehend that person who did that, don't you

        23       think it should be in a category of a felony as











                                                             
5076

         1       opposed to misdemeanor?  As odd as it is coming

         2       from me who doesn't believe in enhancing

         3       penalties.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I think a B

         5       misdemeanor is significant.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  B misdemeanor

         7       is enough.  All right.  Mr. President.  On the

         8       bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Galiber on the bill.

        11                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Thank you,

        12       Senator Skelos.

        13                      I am just philosophically opposed

        14       to some of the things you have mentioned, not

        15       the intent of the legislation because what is

        16       happening in our community nowadays is just

        17       horrible, and I think a lot of those things were

        18       happening before.  We didn't focus in on them.

        19                      I guess what I'm really somewhat

        20       concerned about is, I often say on this floor,

        21       that how far do we really have to go to protect

        22       the public at large?  I refer to the 1984

        23       Orwellian concept, and 1984 came to us, and we











                                                             
5077

         1       said absolutely nothing.  A staff person here

         2       reminded me yesterday -- not reminded me,

         3       because I did not know that when the book was

         4       written he just reversed the dates on it, and if

         5       it would have been the next year, it would have

         6       been 1994 as opposed to '84.  But the conditions

         7       are still the same.  We have DNA testing.  We

         8       have youngsters who are two months old, and we

         9       are giving them Social Security numbers.  We are

        10       really invading an area of privacy, and I'm

        11       concerned about how far we really will be going.

        12                      That's a philosophical approach

        13       that I have, and we keep adding onto this.  And

        14       those persons, if you want to put the white hats

        15       and the black hats on, folks, the white hats are

        16       going to be impacted on this also.  I think this

        17       registration, though well-intended, is going to

        18       cause horrible, horrible damages especially in

        19       the category that I mentioned early on; that

        20       we'll have the stigma attached to the rest of

        21       the person's life and the notion of expunging is

        22       a procedure which is not perfect and there's

        23       always some slip-ups.











                                                             
5078

         1                      In addition thereto, if a person

         2       has ever asked and as we proceed the way I think

         3       we're doing, there will come a time when a

         4       question on an application for a job will be,

         5        "Have you ever had to register in this

         6       category?"  And you're going to have to say

         7       yes.  Expunging will not visciate the fact that

         8       you have been registered, that is, that person,

         9       in a felony category.

        10                      And I believe that it means -

        11       does it mean merely being charged or is there a

        12       conviction?

        13                      Conviction.  So, Senator, I can

        14       be courageous and vote against the bill because

        15       of this one issue which I think is damaging, and

        16       I may very well.  And if I do, I want for the

        17       record you to understand that the area that you

        18       are covering is a very crucial one, and you

        19       should be congratulated for adding New York

        20       State in this category.

        21                      I'm just so strongly opposed to

        22       the notion of big brother who is invading the

        23       very basic and fundamental rights as











                                                             
5079

         1       individuals.  The price we're paying is a bit

         2       too high.  And I wish very seriously, and I'm

         3       sure -- you have indicated and you are a person

         4       of your word that especially that statutory

         5       category is probably a bit much and never

         6       intended to go that far.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Dollinger.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President.  Will the sponsor yield to a couple

        11       of questions?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Skelos, do you yield?

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Skelos yields.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, I

        18       share many of Senator Galiber's views about the

        19       quality of this bill, and I think there's some

        20       really good things in it, but let me just ask a

        21       couple of quick questions for clarification.

        22                      One, was it your intention to

        23       make all of the sex offenses which would have to











                                                             
5080

         1       be registered under this bill, that they would

         2       be felonies?

         3                      Because, at least in my quick

         4       review yesterday -- and maybe we changed that

         5       this year.  I couldn't tell.  I went through my

         6       McKinney's.  13060 of the Penal Law is only a

         7       misdemeanor.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Except for

         9       second demeanor, it is all felonies.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So with the

        11       exception of that, sex -

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Right.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- sexual

        14       abuse in the second degree, which is still a

        15       misdemeanor.  Okay.  The rest of it is all

        16       felonies.  That just clarifies it for me,

        17       because I wasn't sure whether you intended to

        18       make it exclusively felonies.

        19                      The second question, again,

        20       through you, Mr. President, if the Senator

        21       Skelos will yield?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Skelos, do you continue to yield?











                                                             
5081

         1                      Senator does.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  How do we

         3       effect this bill for people who are convicted

         4       out of states for comparable offenses?  I note

         5       the provision in the bill on page 2, lines 16

         6       through 18.  How will that work?  Will we

         7       notify, or who will notify sex offenders that

         8       move into this state that they have an

         9       obligation to register?  How is that

        10       notification process going to occur?

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  The notification

        12       from the other state?

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, again

        14       through you, Mr. President, how will the

        15       convicted sexual offender in Pennsylvania know

        16       that when he comes to New York he suddenly has

        17       all these other obligations created by this

        18       statute?

        19                      I can see how someone who goes

        20       through our court system and is either

        21       incarcerated, put on probation or parole or

        22       whatever, how they are well aware of their

        23       obligations because I assume they'll be notified











                                                             
5082

         1       through the process.

         2                      My question is how does the out

         3       of state person get that same kind of notice so

         4       that they know they've got to come forward and

         5       register?

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Well, presently

         7       there are 32 states, as I said, that require

         8       this and the federal government is moving

         9       towards having national legislation right now to

        10       cover this, and I believe there will be

        11       cooperation like out-of-state convictions of

        12       DWIs that presently exist so that the states can

        13       coordinate with each other when this type of

        14       crime has been committed.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I think

        16       that's a good provision.  I was just interested

        17       in how it would actually occur.

        18                      My last question deals with the

        19       expungement of records.  I'm not familiar with

        20       the procedures currently available for expunging

        21       criminal records.  And my question is, what are

        22       the current standards for expunging of records,

        23       and how do they play in this statute?











                                                             
5083

         1                      Because it says that you can

         2       apply to have your records expunged, and if they

         3       are expunged by the court of original instance,

         4       then you no longer have an obligation to

         5       register.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  This would be at

         7       the discretion of the judge.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Are there

         9       any -- again, through you, Mr. President.  Are

        10       there any standards for the exercise of that

        11       discretion?

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Not that I know

        13       of.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, I -- I

        15       guess on the bill, Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Dollinger on the bill.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I think, in

        19       response to my questions, I appreciate the

        20       Senator's approach.  I think the out-of-state

        21       convictions are important.  My hope is that the

        22       federal government will move in that direction,

        23       as well.











                                                             
5084

         1                      I do have a concern, and it's

         2       probably not enough to justify a negative vote,

         3       but that's the standards for expungement.  As we

         4       discussed yesterday, one of the things that we

         5       sometimes do is we put guidelines in major broad

         6       categories.  We use broad language such as

         7       "expungement," and we don't give to our court

         8       justices the guidelines for determining when

         9       expungement would be necessary and, therefore,

        10       when the obligation to register ceases.

        11                      And I would suggest that perhaps

        12       if this bill passes and becomes law that we turn

        13       our attention to the expungement process so we

        14       make sure that we have given those judges not

        15       simply broad, unfettered discretion but,

        16       instead, said there is some evidence of

        17       rehabilitation, there is some evidence of -- be

        18       it remorse or whatever, that there be some

        19       evidence that the danger to society, if it still

        20       exists, has subsided.  That would give the

        21       judges a greater idea of what this legislature

        22       intends in the expungement process and would

        23       ideally better facilitate the goal of this











                                                             
5085

         1       legislation.

         2                      So I would just commend that to

         3       the sponsor.  I think this is a good bill.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  As I mentioned

         5       to Senator Galiber, if in fact this bill is

         6       changed prior to final passage between the two

         7       houses, certainly this is something that we will

         8       consider during that process.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again, Mr.

        10       President, I don't think -- I'm going to vote in

        11       favor of this bill.  I think it's got many good

        12       aspects to it.  I think that would make it even

        13       better.

        14                      Thank you.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      Senator Mendez.

        18                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

        19       Will the Senator yield for a question?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Skelos, will you yield to Senator Mendez?

        22                      Senator Skelos yields.

        23                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I am very much











                                                             
5086

         1       interested in the fact that the national

         2       association that works on behalf of missing -

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

         4       can't -

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  That association

         6       that works on behalf of missing and exploited

         7       children as well as other professionals do

         8       believe that adults who feel attracted to

         9       children, that kind of a behavior is incurable.

        10       So that although I appreciate your bill that it

        11       starts to do something -- it will help to

        12       apprehend those men and women if there are some

        13       over there that have come back to the

        14       neighborhoods.  Then if they go again and they

        15       commit another horrendous crime against a child,

        16       it would be easy in this instance because of

        17       your bill to apprehend that monster.  However,

        18       there is no prevention.

        19                      So my question to you is, since

        20       you do have interest in this area, do you plan

        21       to go ahead and introduce some bills so that

        22       these people that are so sick and that are going

        23       to keep hurting children forever and ever will











                                                             
5087

         1       stay locked up behind bars?  Why should they be

         2       paroled.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe

         4       Senator DiCarlo has passed the Sex Offender

         5       Reform Act, which takes into account some of the

         6       considerations you are mentioning right now.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I want some

         8       correction.  I just heard in the debate between

         9       Senator Dollinger and yourself that there is a

        10       section in the Correction Law that classifies as

        11       a misdemeanor child sex abuse.  What kind of an

        12       abuse could possibly be a misdemeanor?  You're

        13       the lawyer.  I am not.  It's just that I am

        14       shocked.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Sexual

        16       misconduct, consentual sodomy and sex abuse in

        17       the third degree.

        18                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  And that is

        19       considered a misdemeanor?  My God, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      Thank you.

        22                      My God, Mr. President.  There be

        23       something terribly wrong with -- I know there is











                                                             
5088

         1       something terribly wrong in our criminal justice

         2       system; but in an area in today's world here in

         3       the United States where sex abuse is increasing

         4       at alarming rates, I think that this Legislature

         5       should take a closer look and eliminate from the

         6       books those kinds of laws that shouldn't be

         7       there because it allows these criminals to keep

         8       preying, forever and ever, on our children, on

         9       our kids.

        10                      I want to congratulate Senator

        11       Skelos for this bill, and I hope that eventually

        12       we can work on a bill that will really put these

        13       crazy monsters behind bars.  Let them work for

        14       their keep.  And in that way, we as a government

        15       would be certain that the safety of our children

        16       would be accomplished.

        17                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        19       any other Senator wishing go speak on this

        20       bill?

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Hearing none, Secretary will read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
5089

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the first day of

         3       November next succeeding the date on which it

         4       shall have become law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       282, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        13       437D, an act to amend the Environmental

        14       Conservation Law, in relation to permitting

        15       certain advertising in the Adirondack Park.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay this aside

        17       just temporarily and take up Resolution 3993.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

        19       motions and resolutions.

        20                      Secretary will read the title of

        21       Resolution 3993.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  On page 4

        23       of today's calendar, Legislative Resolution











                                                             
5090

         1       3993, by Senator Stafford, designating the

         2       report of the fiscal committees on the Executive

         3       Budget as the official statement of legislative

         4       intent on the Executive Budget as submitted by

         5       the Governor and as amended by the Legislature.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Jones.

         8                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes, on the

         9       resolution.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Jones on the resolution.

        12                      SENATOR JONES:  I'm not in the

        13       habit here of looking through people's Eagle

        14       Scouts and anniversaries and birthdays, et

        15       cetera.  I assume resolutions are each Senator's

        16       personal choice and whatever.

        17                      So this is probably why I missed

        18       this last year; however, I didn't this year.

        19       And if there is one thing I've learned through

        20       being here a year and a half, there is nothing

        21       you can let go by here that you don't read all

        22       the fine print.

        23                      Now, I'm looking at this











                                                             
5091

         1       resolution, and I'm trying to decide -- was I

         2       absent, and I'm quite sure I wasn't -- but when

         3       this occurred.  It apparently outlines the steps

         4       that we took preparing the budget.

         5                      Number 1 I can go along with.

         6       The Governor submits it.  Number 2 in here says

         7       that Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and Means

         8       reviews it.  I can even take that step.  I did

         9       go to the hearings.  I am on the Finance

        10       Committee.  I sat through all the hearings, and

        11       that part is correct.

        12                      Now we get to number 3, and this

        13       is why I'm lost.  It says the committee then

        14       makes recommendations and presents them to

        15       legislators, individually and collectively.

        16       Now, I, first of all, would like to know at what

        17       point that occurred?

        18                      If I missed that point, then

        19       let's go on to number 4, which says what we did

        20       was each member then was given the opportunity

        21       to explain and indicate his opinion on all these

        22       expenditures.  That, in this resolution, says is

        23       number 4 that we did.











                                                             
5092

         1                      Then it says -- number 5 says

         2       members make their comments and suggestions.

         3       Then the Finance Committee and Assembly Ways and

         4       Means goes back and negotiates to reach a common

         5       accord on the budget.  After that, there is a

         6       report.

         7                      Now, the only budget that I

         8       received was a very large document on warm paper

         9       which I would conclude had just come from the

        10       print shop, and I fail to recall any of these

        11       steps, and I think it's a little outrageous.

        12                      We had a bill a couple weeks ago

        13       where we talked about historical documents, the

        14       Constitution, et cetera, and we did not want any

        15       of these presented in an untrue context or any

        16       words being left out; and, yet, we are now going

        17       to rewrite history and say this is what we did

        18       to arrive at the budget we passed last week.

        19                      I just can only say I'm not even

        20       sure.  I'm fascinated, outraged.  I'm not even

        21       sure what adjectives I want to use in regard to

        22       this.  But, certainly, my name is not going to

        23       appear on this legislation.  And I'll leave it











                                                             
5093

         1       up to the rest of you, if you want to certify

         2       that this is what we did.  Because I either was

         3       absent or something, and I do have perfect

         4       attendance so that obviously isn't what

         5       happened.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Dollinger on the resolution.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         9       President.  I join my colleague from Monroe

        10       County in standing up in opposition to this

        11       resolution.  I don't think that all the things

        12       that are outlined there actually happened, and

        13       I'm not sure that this resolution actually

        14       reflects the budget process.  It certainly

        15       wasn't the budget process that I participated in

        16       when at 4:00 o'clock last Wednesday morning I

        17       was presented with a couple thousand pages of

        18       material that was called the contents of the

        19       budget.

        20                      I don't recall being given an

        21       opportunity to explain and indicate his opinion

        22       on all those proposed expenditures, other than

        23       on this floor.  I certainly didn't have it











                                                             
5094

         1       beforehand.

         2                      And it seems to me that -- I'm

         3       fascinated by what this resolution represents.

         4       I can recall when I was a kid that we studied

         5       Communist Russia and Communist China.  Many of

         6       you may have had the same history lesson that I

         7       did, which said that they reached that point

         8       where they wanted to destroy the reputation of

         9       someone that they used to take a little air

        10       brush and they'd air brush the pictures of the

        11       Politburo, and the person would just disappear

        12        -- there'd be a hole -- because they had grown

        13       in disfavor.  And that was the way they revised

        14       history.  They just kept air brushing people in

        15       and out of the pictures.

        16                      Well, it seems to me that this is

        17       the air brush at work here in the State

        18       Legislature.  If we're going to air brush the

        19       last five months, the additional 66 days or 69

        20       days that we deliberated beyond our

        21       constitutional deadline, but this is the air

        22       brush at work, that figurative and literal air

        23       brush at work, changing history.











                                                             
5095

         1                      I think if we're going to be true

         2       to what happened, I think we've got to vote

         3       against this resolution.  And it just seems to

         4       me that this Legislature needs to go through a

         5       budget revision process.  We need public

         6       hearings.  We need better itemized legislative

         7       budgets.

         8                      And if we had all those things

         9       this resolution might reflect reality but it

        10       doesn't.  I can't vote for something that

        11       doesn't reflect the truth of what we endured for

        12       the last four months.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Connor on the resolution.

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      Senator Stafford, would you yield

        19       for a question?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Stafford, would you yield?

        22                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Sure.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5096

         1       Stafford yields.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Senator, in past

         3       years on the budget we got a document called

         4       "The Report of the Fiscal Committees."  I think

         5       it was commonly called, I don't know, "Green

         6       Book."  It had a green cover on it.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  It was a

         8       "Green Book" but it had a blue cover.

         9                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Blue cover,

        10       that's right.  That's what it was.  I take it

        11       that this resolution refers to this year's

        12       version of "The Report of the Fiscal

        13       Committees."

        14                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes, it does.

        15                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Is there such a

        16       report, and can I see it?

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes, there

        18       is.  It's been made available.

        19                      SENATOR CONNOR:  It's been made

        20       available.  Has it be distributed?

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes.

        22                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Where?

        23                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I am advised











                                                             
5097

         1       that all the members received it as in the past.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Okay.  So it's

         3       in our offices.

         4                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Okay.

         6                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

         8       Senator wishing to speak on the resolution?

         9                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm trying

        11       to understand.  Senator, if you would yield for

        12       a question, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Stafford, would you yield to Senator

        15       Oppenheimer?

        16                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       does.

        19                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Normally,

        20       when we have a resolution, it's for a purpose,

        21       an occasion, an Eagle Scout, a testimonial

        22       dinner.  I can't understand.  What is this

        23       resolution for?











                                                             
5098

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  That's really

         2       something I am pleased to see, a resolution that

         3       really does do something.  Now, I put in all

         4       these resolutions and, at times, I wonder

         5       whether, really, we read them and really

         6       consider them.  This resolution is resolving

         7       that the budget process has taken place and, as

         8       Senator Connor said, the "Green Book" is our

         9       interpretation and -- very, very importantly for

        10       lawyers -- intent of the Legislature.

        11                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Okay. Thank

        12       you, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold on one

        14       second.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Last section.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Padavan, Senator Gold asked for just a moment.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        21       favor, signify by saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye.")

        23                      Opposed, nay.











                                                             
5099

         1                      (Response of "Nay.")

         2                      Secretary will call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       the resolution.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         6       the results.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Legislative Resolution Number

         9       3993 are Senators Dollinger, Jones, Leichter,

        10       Montgomery, Oppenheimer, and Waldon.  Ayes 49.

        11       Nays 6.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       resolution as adopted.

        14                      Senator Padavan, do you wish to

        15       return to the controversial calendar?

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Controversial,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the controversial calendar.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       282, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        22       437D, an act to amend the Environmental

        23       Conservation Law, in relation to permitting











                                                             
5100

         1       certain advertising in the Adirondack Park.

         2                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Oppenheimer.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  On the

         7       bill.  In the past, I have spoken against this

         8       bill and I think it should be noted that this is

         9       the D print, and Senator Stafford has done a

        10       considerable amount of work on this in changes,

        11       and I congratulate Senator Stafford, because now

        12       the Adirondack Council is working in conjunction

        13       with the Senator on this.

        14                      This is a good bill now.  Instead

        15       of having signs all over the place in the

        16       Adirondacks, there are now going to be

        17       informational kiosks at rest areas and at

        18       certain designated interchanges in the

        19       Adirondack Northway, and they will tell the

        20       availability of food and fuel and recreation and

        21       hiking trails and state lands, and I think it's

        22       going to be very beneficial.

        23                      Tourism is the main industry of











                                                             
5101

         1       the Adirondacks, and I think this will benefit

         2       both the people who live there and the millions

         3       of visitors who come to the Adirondacks for

         4       solace and the beauty of the area.

         5                      And I think it's a very happy

         6       compromise, and I congratulate the Senator.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the last section.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        11       last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       586, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number

        22       7057B, an act to amend the Administrative Code

        23       of the City of New York.











                                                             
5102

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

         2       last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       922, by Member of the Assembly Bennett, Assembly

        13       Bill Number 5058B, an act to amend the Executive

        14       Law, in relation to state aid to rural areas.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        16       last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
5103

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1161, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

         4       1362, an act to amend the Judiciary Law, in

         5       relation to creating the 13th Judicial District

         6       consisting of the County of Richmond.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Padavan.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside

        13       temporarily, Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside temporarily.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1164, by Senator Kuhl.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the

        20       day.  Lay the bill aside for the day.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1173, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number

        23       6863A, authorize the sale of certain state land











                                                             
5104

         1       in the Town of Ellisburg, Jefferson County.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Dollinger, do you wish to speak on the bill.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Explanation

         9       on the bill.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Wright, Senator Dollinger has asked for an

        12       explanation.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Excuse me,

        14       Mr. President.  Is this 1164?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  This is

        16       1173.  Calendar 1173.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I apologize,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
5105

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1178, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number

         8       7128, an act to amend the Town Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        10       home rule message at the desk.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside

        13       for the day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside for the day.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1179, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7142,

        18       an act to amend the State Administrative

        19       Procedure Act, in relation to model plans or

        20       documents.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will Senator yield

        22       to a question?

        23                      SENATOR RATH:  Surely.











                                                             
5106

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Rath, Senator Gold has asked if you would yield.

         3                      Senator Rath yields.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I notice

         5       in my notes that this was vetoed by the

         6       Governor, and there was some reference about

         7       clarity of language, I believe.

         8                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Has any of that

        10       been addressed in this bill, or is this just a

        11       repeat of the vetoed bill?

        12                      SENATOR RATH:  No, I believe

        13       that's been cleared up, and the Governor's veto

        14       which I have in my hand points out, I think,

        15       some concerns that the agencies indicate that

        16       compliance with the requirements would be unduly

        17       timeconsuming and burdensome.

        18                      The bill provides for a plan

        19       which will help the regulated public understand

        20       how they need to respond to the requirements of

        21       the regulation when they need to file.

        22                      So I think what it's trying to do

        23       is help SAPA become a little more user friendly,











                                                             
5107

         1       and I believe it's important that we provide

         2       that for the regulated public.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, the point

         4       I'm getting at is that in 1992, Senator

         5       Ohrenstein and I had some questions.  We passed

         6       the bill unanimously in '93, but there was a

         7       veto.

         8                      There are changes in this bill or

         9       there are not changes?

        10                      SENATOR RATH:  My understanding

        11       is that there have not been changes because

        12       there was -- the Governor's veto did not

        13       reference any specific change.  It appeared to

        14       say, as I go back to the veto language, that the

        15       agencies indicate it would be -- compliance with

        16       the requirements would be cumbersome and

        17       burdensome and costly.

        18                      But I think the agencies -

        19       sometimes the regulated public finds the

        20       agencies not to be their friend.  It's almost a

        21       contest.

        22                      And so I didn't think that the

        23       veto required really changing the language.  In











                                                             
5108

         1       my opinion, it didn't require changing the

         2       language.  I thought the language was very

         3       clear.  It's a very simple bill.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.

         5                      SENATOR RATH:  If I may,

         6       Senator.  I believe that some of it may have to

         7       do with the review of SAPA that is going on at

         8       this time.  But none of the review areas that I

         9       know of are dealing with this particular kind of

        10       an issue, and it's a very simple issue.

        11                      It's presenting a responsibility

        12       when a request is made that a model could be set

        13       up so that the regulated public could see what

        14       that model should look like as they respond.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, just

        16       lastly, I personally don't understand why if

        17       there is a veto message and we repass bills -

        18       people want to challenge and override a veto,

        19       that's one thing -- but to not make language

        20       change.

        21                      But I'm just reading, at the

        22       request of Senator Leichter, the last sentence

        23       of the bill, "This subdivision shall not require











                                                             
5109

         1       the preparation of a model plan or document for

         2       any provision of a rule which requires the

         3       submission to the agency of an application or

         4       similar form or blank which is prepared and

         5       distributed by the agency or for any rule which

         6       sets forth such model plan or document in the

         7       text of the rule."

         8                      Senator, the Governor said that

         9       there was some problem with the language.  Do

        10       you think that is a clear sentence for the

        11       average guy to deal with, Senator, in knowing

        12       whether or not this applies?

        13                      SENATOR RATH:  And that, I think,

        14       is exactly the point, Senator, that the language

        15       is very difficult for the public to understand;

        16       and so when they write in and request -- because

        17       if you'll notice earlier in the legislation, it

        18       says, "Upon the request of one or more regulated

        19       parties, to prepare a model plan to provide

        20       guidance as to the form."

        21                      I think that, yes, it is

        22       difficult to understand but not for those of us

        23       who need to expand to the public's confusion.  I











                                                             
5110

         1       think we can understand language like that, and

         2       I think our agencies can, but I think the point

         3       here is to make it easy for the public.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator-

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Rath, do you continue to yield?

         7                      Senator yields.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  Senator,

         9       what I don't understand is why we would pass

        10       something which is, I think, tremendously

        11       difficult.  You need -- in the old expression -

        12       59 Philadelphia lawyers to understand it.  And

        13       to say it's passing a law and it doesn't matter

        14       whether the public understands it, we should

        15       understand it.  I'm not ashamed to tell you I

        16       don't understand it.

        17                      And I think, Senator, there are

        18       some of us -- you may not have that concern, but

        19       some of us worry very much about judges and what

        20       they've got to go through.  And I'd hate to be a

        21       judge and have to interpret what all of this

        22       stuff means.  I mean I think to some extent

        23       that's what the Governor was concerned with.











                                                             
5111

         1                      SENATOR RATH:  Well, Senator, I

         2       can understand why he would be concerned because

         3       I think there's probably a lot of legislation

         4       has language that is very difficult to

         5       understand.

         6                      But, as I indicated before, this

         7       language is dealing with the regulating agencies

         8       and asking them to respond to a request by a

         9       regulated party.  In my mind, that's clear

        10       enough.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      Senator Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I just rise

        15       on the bill.  We discussed this yesterday -

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Dollinger on the bill.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- Senator

        19       Johnson about the issue of what authority we

        20       give to our regulators.  And one of the points I

        21       tried to make in that discussion was when we

        22       give them broad grants of authority and they

        23       used those broad grants of authority as broadly











                                                             
5112

         1       as we gave it to them, we can't suddenly come

         2       back to them and say, "You are not doing what we

         3       want you to do."

         4                      It seems to me -- and I agree

         5       with Senator Gold.  I appreciate the difficulty,

         6       perhaps, of drafting, that the concept that this

         7       last sentence raises is a difficult one to put

         8       into a textural form so many it can be clearly

         9       understood.  But the way it's currently drafted,

        10       I think we're going to not only see judges

        11       bewildered about how to try to figure it out but

        12       we're going to have regulators try to figure it

        13       out.  They may do some things that we don't want

        14       them to do, and we will be back here two or

        15       three years from now on the same debate we had

        16       with Senator Johnson yesterday on Environmental

        17       Conservation, trying to figure out what is it

        18       the Legislature really intended.

        19                      We have an obligation both to the

        20       regulators to the courts and to the people who

        21       are filing applications and relying on

        22       regulators to be more specific.  I appreciate

        23       the sponsor's -- the difficulty in taking this











                                                             
5113

         1       complicated area of procedural law, of the

         2       administrative procedure and trying to make it

         3       clear.

         4                      But it seems to me that this

         5       subdivision, this section is unclear and will be

         6       difficult for everyone to understand, and we may

         7       just generate more confusion rather than

         8       clarity.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Gold.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Rath, let

        12       me say this.  There are times when we have

        13       philosophical differences, and there are times

        14       when we are just talking, I think, within the

        15       context of the Legislature itself and the

        16       product.

        17                      The bill is a short bill.  And,

        18       basically, the intent of the bill as I

        19       understand it is, it says that if a -- if some

        20       agency wants you to submit a document that they

        21       ought to have some kind of a model as to what

        22       they expect it to be.  And if that's what it is,

        23       I'm so far fine on it.  And then that takes care











                                                             
5114

         1       of about the first sentence.

         2                      The second sentence says it ought

         3       to be available and people ought to be told by

         4       the agencies it's available.  And so I guess I'm

         5       okay.

         6                      Senator, I'm not trying to give

         7       you a difficult time, but I don't understand

         8       what that last sentence means at all, and I tell

         9       you something.  My own intellect is

        10       questionable.  But when Franz Leichter doesn't

        11       understand it, I get nervous.

        12                      And, you know, this

        13       subdivision -- in other words, they have to have

        14       a plan; they got to tell you about it; but the

        15       subdivision does not require the preparation of

        16       a plan or document.  And then it goes from

        17       there.  I'm not sure what that means.

        18                      And all I'm saying, Senator, is I

        19       don't think the idea is a terrible idea.  I

        20       think one of the most frustrating things in the

        21       world for people is to want to apply for

        22       something, maybe even be entitled to it, and

        23       then have a bureaucrat tell them that they like











                                                             
5115

         1       it laid out some other way.

         2                      I think the idea may be nine.  I

         3       just don't know what the heck that sentence

         4       means.  And all I'm saying to you is, we passed

         5       it for you before, and the Governor said, "Look,

         6       this may have some language problems."  I'm just

         7       suggesting maybe we don't go through with it

         8       today and see whether or not there is any way of

         9       fixing up that language.

        10                      There may not be, Senator, and it

        11       may be that philosophically the Governor ain't

        12       agoin' to do it, you know, but I think it's

        13       worth a try to put it into easier language,

        14       respectfully.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the first day of

        19       October next succeeding the date on which it

        20       shall have become a law.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
5116

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Leichter to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  To explain my

         5       vote.  On the one hand, I want to say to Senator

         6       Rath, who is relatively new here but has learned

         7       the traditions and habits of this house, which

         8       is, that any legislation which is put on the

         9       floor cannot be improved in language, and you go

        10       ahead and you pass the bill no matter what, even

        11       if it's pointed out that it's sorely lacking in

        12       comprehensibility or has some other problems.

        13                      I just want to say, I think the

        14       point's been well made and if I, with all due

        15       respect, may make a suggestion to Senator Rath

        16       that next time she not borrow one of the

        17       draftsmen of the Internal Revenue Code to draft

        18       these bills, because only in the Internal

        19       Revenue Code have I have read similar

        20       provisions.  And I would be delighted if Senator

        21       Rath at her leisure would just send us something

        22       which would tell us what this means.

        23                      Mr. President.  I suspect that











                                                             
5117

         1       this bill will meet the exact same fate that it

         2       met last year.  It will be vetoed.  And if

         3       traditions hold true, Senator Rath, you will be

         4       putting forth the exact same bill with the exact

         5       same language next year with the exact same

         6       result.

         7                      I vote in the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Leichter in the negative.  Announce the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 1179 are

        12       Senators Connor, Dollinger, Galliber, Gold,

        13       Leichter, Markowitz and Ohrenstein.  Ayes 48.

        14       Nays 7.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1182, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        19       7772, authorize the Commissioner of General

        20       Services to convey certain land in Clinton

        21       County to the Organization for Dannemora

        22       Housing.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5118

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1183, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7776,

        12       State Administrative Procedure Act, in relation

        13       to notification regarding rule proposals.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Rath, Senator Leichter has asked for an

        16       explanation.

        17                      SENATOR RATH:  Senator Leichter,

        18       this particular item shows that various agencies

        19       before promulgating rules will hold hearings

        20       with select notification to the public,

        21       circulate draft proposals to select entities,

        22       and negotiate rule makings with the regulated

        23       parties without notification to ARC or to ORMA;











                                                             
5119

         1       and what we are doing here is insuring

         2       legislative oversight by assuring that ARC and

         3       ORMA receive notifications of such proceedings.

         4                      Therefore, the bill, as I said,

         5       will insure legislative oversight and is doing

         6       nothing more than assuring notification.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         9       Explanation satisfactory.

        10                      Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 90th day after it

        13       shall have become a law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1184, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number

        22       7800, Real Property Tax Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5120

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         8       President.  If I may explain my vote.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Leichter to explain his vote.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I am going to

        12       support this bill, although with some

        13       hesitation.  I just want to point out to the

        14       members here that while this bill provides, in

        15       effect, for local option and that really sort of

        16       sanitizes the bill for me, but it does provide

        17       for the county granting tax exemptions, real

        18       estate tax exemption for new construction.

        19                      I just want to point out that in

        20       the City of New York -- and the City was given

        21       that power -- really had some very unfortunate

        22       experiences.  Maybe the counties have to learn

        23       it for themselves or be more careful than the











                                                             
5121

         1       City of New York was, but it's a power given the

         2       counties which could be misused and create a

         3       great deal of financial difficulties.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         5       the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1186, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number

        11       7975.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        13       for the day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside for the day.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Stand at ease

        17       for a moment.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        19       will stand at ease for a moment.

        20                      (Whereupon, the Senate was at

        21       ease.)

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        23       will come to order.











                                                             
5122

         1                      Senator Present.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Take up

         3       Calendar 1161.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read Calendar 1161.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1161, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number

         8       1362, an act to amend the Judiciary Law, in

         9       relation to creating the 13th Judicial District

        10       consisting of the County of Richmond.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Marchi, Senator Leichter has asked for an

        14       explanation.

        15                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Under the

        16       present arrangement -- well, we are members of

        17       the Second Department and we would remain in the

        18       Second Department, the County of Richmond, even

        19       under prospective legislation which may be

        20       considered later in the session, creating a

        21       Fifth Department.

        22                      But the fact that we are not a

        23       judicial district, and especially if there is a











                                                             
5123

         1       change, we would be with the County of Kings,

         2       and there have been repeated circumstances in

         3       the experience of the county where the desires

         4       of the procedures on Staten Island in composing

         5       the Supreme Court with some difficulties if it

         6       were reduced.  Especially with a change to a

         7       fifth district, the difficulties would be

         8       magnified.  So we would -- by becoming a

         9       judicial district, we would then be part of the

        10       Second Department -- we would continue being

        11       members of the Second Department, but we would

        12       have the right to fill these offices within the

        13       county, as is the case in Kings, as is the case

        14       in Queens.  It seems to me eminently fair.

        15                      There is unanimous support for

        16       it, down in Richmond County for it.  And I would

        17       hope it prevails.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Connor.

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        21       President.  I certainly more than many members

        22       here appreciate why Senator Marchi advances this

        23       proposal.  In fact, I guess in a prior











                                                             
5124

         1       incarnation in a different district, I may have

         2       voted for this and even co-sponsored this a few

         3       years ago.  And I don't want people from Staten

         4       Island to think I have forgotten them so quickly

         5       even though they don't have any votes in my

         6       district.

         7                      But I do want to use this issue

         8       to address the whole issue of judicial selection

         9       in New York City and New York State.

        10                      There are presently pending two

        11       or three lawsuits that challenge on a variety of

        12       grounds, civil rights and voting rights grounds,

        13       the way, one, we select Supreme Court justices;

        14       two, the way Civil Court judges in the City of

        15       New York are selected.

        16                      The cases, I suspect, have some

        17       legal merit.  They are pending in Federal

        18       Court.  They raise other issues besides voting

        19       rights issues; for example, "one person one

        20       vote" issues, issues like why is it that the

        21       Borough of Manhattan has an incredibly

        22       disproportionate number of Civil Court judges?

        23       The political ramifications of adverse decisions











                                                             
5125

         1       in one or all of these cases could be varied.

         2                      One benefit for those of us who

         3       represent parts of other boroughs is it would

         4       shift presumably some of the Civil Court judges

         5       to other boroughs.

         6                      One may say Manhattan has a

         7       disproportionate number of judges because of the

         8       caseload there, but there are cases that say,

         9        "Well, fine.  So you assign the judges wherever

        10       you need them."  That doesn't mean that a person

        11       in Brooklyn should have 1/6 of the say in

        12       picking Civil Court judges as a person in

        13       Manhattan, for example, a voter in Manhattan.

        14                      On the voting rights issues,

        15       similar concerns prevail.  People say, "Oh, but

        16       you need the judges here instead of there,"

        17       well, that doesn't mean you can't elect them in

        18       different sorts of districts that empower

        19       minority voters to select more judges, even if

        20       they end up being shifted to some different

        21       borough to deal with the workload.

        22                      So it's not about judicial

        23       efficiency.  We already allow in our state for











                                                             
5126

         1       judges to be assigned wherever they are needed.

         2                      My colleagues.  These cases have

         3       been kicking around for a couple of years now,

         4       and I'm afraid the day of reckoning is coming,

         5       and I've talked to successive Judiciary

         6       Committee chairs about what we're going to do

         7       about this, and then I get answers, "Yes, we may

         8       have to do something about that."

         9                      And my warning is let's not wait

        10       until a federal judge decides how and where and

        11       when we'll select judges.  For example, who is

        12       defending against these lawsuits?  Well, the

        13       executive, of course.

        14                      Well, I don't want to comment on

        15       the situation in New York, but one of the

        16       remedies one of the plaintiffs are asking for is

        17       throw out this whole system of picking judges

        18       because it violates the Voting Rights Act, "one

        19       person one vote," and so on, and just let the

        20       executive appoint -- you know, the Mayor appoint

        21       a percentage and the Governor appoint a

        22       percentage.  In other words, they are asking

        23       that all the power go to the person they are











                                                             
5127

         1       suing who is defending against it.

         2                      Now, I don't think in New York

         3       State we need worry about the vigor with which

         4       the Executive defends these cases, even though

         5       the Governor did have a task force which, in

         6       effect, laid forth the theory the plaintiffs are

         7       using in their lawsuit.

         8                      But we can look at a different

         9       state, in Georgia, for example, and the case is

        10       on hold.  But in Georgia there was a similar

        11       lawsuit against Governor Zell Miller there, and

        12       he settled the case and said, "You know, you're

        13       right.  We're not electing judges properly.  So

        14       we will enter into a consent decree and I'll

        15       just appoint them from now on."

        16                      In that case, the federal judge

        17       said, "Wait a minute."  That state had a history

        18       of electing judges embodied in its

        19       constitutional provisions, and the judge there

        20       said, "No, no, you have to work out a different

        21       settlement.  You have to make it fair.  You have

        22       to follow the Voting Rights Act.  You have to

        23       follow also the principle of election."











                                                             
5128

         1                      But I believe really this

         2       Legislature is now on notice for over two years

         3       of the pendency of these lawsuits.  I think

         4       there are ways to insure a fair way of selecting

         5       and electing judges to the various courts.

         6       Ensure that "one person one vote" is upheld.

         7       Ensure that minority voters have a fair share of

         8       the opportunity to elect judges of their choice,

         9       and we haven't acted on it.

        10                      All I have seen on this floor so

        11       far now is a bill I once co-sponsored to give a

        12       little bit of fairness and say-so to the voters

        13       of Richmond County.

        14                      But with all due respect to

        15       Senator Marchi, Mr. President, I think under the

        16       circumstances there is a much greater need

        17       that's not being met.  Indeed, were this bill to

        18       become law, it would have to go off to the

        19       Justice Department because it does have an

        20       impact -- it does have an impact on a voting

        21       rights covered county, Kings County.  And one

        22       could easily construct a rationale whereby in

        23       taking away and carving out so many judgeships











                                                             
5129

         1       merely for Richmond County, you, in effect, are

         2       depriving minority voters in Kings County of

         3       their say-so in picking that many judges.  They

         4       may not control, but they have a voice in the

         5       selection of the judges at present, and they

         6       wouldn't were this act to become law.

         7                      So I think that this bill, were

         8       it to become law, won't pass muster under the

         9       Voting Rights Act.  And on the larger question,

        10       we better wake up here before an unelected,

        11       lifetime appointee federal judge decides how

        12       we're going to get all of our judges.  And

        13       that's without taking sides on merit selection

        14       versus election or any other proposals, but we

        15       ought to do something.  We really ought to

        16       address this and do something before it's done

        17       to us as well as for us.

        18                      Thank you.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        23       Marchi would yield.











                                                             
5130

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Marchi, do you yield?

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, has

         4       the Office of Court Administration taken any

         5       position on your bill?

         6                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, I wouldn't

         7       want them to -- I wouldn't want to state here

         8       that they endorse it when they have made no

         9       official pronouncement on it, but I have

        10       discussed it with them, and they say they saw

        11       nothing objectionable, that it wouldn't create

        12       any problem if we wanted to do it.

        13                      However, I want to caution you

        14       that they have not said, yes, we will back it

        15       up.  I discussed it informally with them in

        16       terms of doing this, and they said that that

        17       wouldn't present any problem.

        18                      As far as review, you know, we

        19       have no objection.  There is no partisan

        20       division, and we have certainly no objection by

        21       federal review or anybody else.  You know, if

        22       Queens has a judicial district and Kings County

        23       has a judicial district, I don't see why we











                                                             
5131

         1       can't.  At least we will be able to have a more

         2       direct voice in filling out those Supreme Court

         3       slots than we have now.

         4                      We've had delegates go over and

         5       they were just voted down at the judicial

         6       convention.  I assume that probably happened

         7       before Queens became a separate judicial

         8       district.  We're 400,000 people.

         9                      But we certainly don't have any

        10       objection to having it reviewed by anyone.  But

        11       I did discuss it specifically with OCA, and they

        12       said they didn't see any difficulty at all.

        13       That was their word to me.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        15       President.  I appreciate -

        16                      SENATOR MARCHI:  In fact, I spoke

        17       to Judge Malone's office, and he said he didn't

        18       see any difficulty.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you,

        20       Senator Marchi.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Leichter on the bill.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just briefly











                                                             
5132

         1       on the bill.  I think there's a certain element

         2       of fairness in saying that Richmond County ought

         3       to have the powers that other counties within

         4       the City of New York have.

         5                      But, Senator, let me say there is

         6       also an argument to be made that we ought to

         7       keep politics, to the extent we can, out of the

         8       court system.  And I think you've already

         9       honestly said that this was driven by politics

        10       advantage, if you will, not just for county but

        11       possibly for political party.  And I don't know

        12       whether that's enough justification to change

        13       longstanding arrangements.

        14                      I want to say I have been

        15       consistent, because I also opposed the

        16       establishment of the 12th Judicial District.

        17       But I think we need to do a lot in rationalizing

        18       the whole way in which we have not only the

        19       election of judges, the unification of our

        20       courts, a fifth department, which I believe is

        21       needed, and I support Senator Lack's efforts in

        22       that.

        23                      So maybe really we need to look











                                                             
5133

         1       at the whole cosmos of our judicial system, and

         2       it may not be wise just from that viewpoint,

         3       Senator, to address in this isolated fashion

         4       your bill creating a 13th judicial district for

         5       Staten Island.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Dollinger.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         9       President.  I rise to echo the sentiments of

        10       both Senator Connor and Senator Leichter.  I

        11       think this is a piecemeal approach to what is a

        12       very significant problem, the way elect our

        13       judges and the circumstances under which we

        14       elect them.

        15                      I'd simply point out in our neck

        16       of the woods, Mr. President, both the judicial

        17       district, the 7th Judicial District, which has a

        18       majority of its population in Monroe County,

        19       very difficult for your constituents from the

        20       southern portion of the district or Senator

        21       Nozzolio's from the eastern portion of the

        22       district or Senator Volker's who are from the

        23       western portion of the seventh district to win











                                                             
5134

         1       elections against people who run from Monroe

         2       County because of the substantial population

         3       concentrated in Monroe County, and we have a

         4       judiciary in the Seventh Judicial District

         5       which, again, depending on your persuasion, is

         6       really geographically and regionally balanced,

         7       heavily tilted in favor of Monroe County.  It's

         8       very difficult for people outside the county to

         9       win.

        10                      So I think there are a lot of

        11       factors that go into the election of judges and

        12       regional loyalties that accompany these

        13       elections, but I really think to do it on

        14       anything other than a comprehensive approach

        15       doesn't make good sense.

        16                      And I understand Senator Marchi's

        17       concern, certainly is a strong regional voice

        18       for Staten Island, but I think we need to look

        19       at the much bigger picture and figure out how

        20       we're going to create a judiciary in this state

        21       that accurately reflects all aspects and all

        22       constituencies in this state so that we make

        23       sure that justice is fair and it's even-handed











                                                             
5135

         1       for everyone.

         2                      And I'm going to vote against

         3       this bill only because I think this is a

         4       piecemeal approach to a very big problem.  I

         5       know Senator Lack and the Judiciary Committee

         6       are working on aspects of that problem.  I hope

         7       they bear fruit.

         8                      But I'm going to vote against

         9       this on the basis of the fact that it's a

        10       piecemeal approach at this stage.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Galiber.

        13                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, will

        14       you yield for a question?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marchi, do you yield?

        17                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes.

        18                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, I want

        19       you to go back a little bit and tell me whether

        20       this is the same thing we had a problem with in

        21       Bronx County.  One time in Bronx County we were

        22       drawing with Manhattan, and both Senator

        23       Leichter and Senator Connor had a piece of











                                                             
5136

         1       Manhattan, and they still owe us judges because

         2       they didn't have the population.  They must owe

         3       us about seven or eight judges.  We haven't got

         4       them yet.  They are still hanging out there.

         5                      So when the opportunity came,

         6       with some struggle, I want you to know, and you

         7       can recall we wanted to separate and make it the

         8       12th and there was a lot of objection to it.  I

         9       think there is some kind of a little

        10       self-serving something or other back there.  I'm

        11       going to vote for the legislation, because I

        12       went through this, and they never gave us the

        13       judges that they owe us, and I think that there

        14       are some problems as pointed out;

        15       notwithstanding the fact that there are two

        16       people from Manhattan who kind of objected.  You

        17       guys owe me some judges, I want you to know

        18       that.  This is the only way we can do it.

        19                      They gave me the same argument

        20       some years ago.  Let's wait for whomever it may

        21       be to come along and do an overall system.  It

        22       doesn't work that way in government.  So I hope

        23       that you stay with the City of New York first,











                                                             
5137

         1       and if you don't or you do, I certainly want to

         2       vote for your piece of legislation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Gold.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      Mr. President.  This debate

         8       brings a smile to my face because, while this

         9       legislation is talking about an issue, it

        10       reminds me of some other kinds of things, and

        11       the smile on my face is a memory of a fellow by

        12       the name of John D. Calandra, a Republican

        13       Senator, a conservative Republican Senator, and

        14       I don't mind putting it out on the record.  I

        15       absolutely loved the man, he was a great guy.

        16                      Why do I smile, and why do I

        17       mention John Calandra?  John Calandra had a bill

        18       that came to this floor, and he was going to

        19       redo all the judge districts in the Bronx, and

        20       the reason was that minorities in the Bronx were

        21       being abused and they didn't have judges, and we

        22       have to redraw districts and we got to redo the

        23       whole thing, and it was I think even for the











                                                             
5138

         1       whole City of New York.  But I know he was very,

         2       very upset.

         3                      And in the bill, John Calandra

         4       took the names of all the sitting judges, gave

         5       them a district, and there was a whole calendar

         6       of how these judgeships would get reelected, and

         7       I know that John Calandra did this at random.

         8       But somehow, somehow if you took a look at the

         9       election dates, those districts which John

        10       Calandra thought would elect white Republicans

        11       happened to be the first elections.  And in the

        12       calendar, ten, fifteen years down the line,

        13       there would be a Puerto Rican and there would be

        14       a black some place along the line.

        15                      The schedule had nothing to do

        16       with politics but it just turned out that all of

        17       the districts that might give a Republican a

        18       chance were the first elections.  Then -- well,

        19       that didn't get too far, as you know, but

        20       certainly in the other house.

        21                      Then Senator Calandra, God bless

        22       him, had another bill and this one dealt with -

        23       it was either delegates to the judicial











                                                             
5139

         1       convention or whatever, and he went through the

         2       Assembly seats or the Senate districts or

         3       whatever, and he realigned how the voting would

         4       be.  And I said I know how this vote is going to

         5       come out.  If your district had 18 and you were

         6       getting 20, you were for the bill; if your

         7       district had 19 and had 16, you were against the

         8       bill.

         9                      And, you know, what this all

        10       comes down to is that it really is ridiculous,

        11       and I respect Senator Galiber very, very much,

        12       and I do believe that, you know, you shouldn't

        13       be in a situation where you don't have a chance

        14       to participate in the system.

        15                      But, Senator Marchi, you know, I

        16       really think it's enough.  When Staten Island

        17       wanted to vote to secede.  I said, look, let

        18       them take a vote, fine.  I hope they don't go

        19       that way.  And, certainly, if it comes down to

        20       the wire and they want to go and they want to

        21       take all the debt with them that they've got to

        22       take, I might be sympathetic with them.  I'm not

        23       so sympathetic with Staten Island walking out











                                                             
5140

         1       and now people in Queens County having to pick

         2       up their share of the debt.  But there are a lot

         3       of issues involved.

         4                      But I really believe that if

         5       we're talking about getting out of here -- and I

         6       know the Assembly isn't working tomorrow.  They

         7       apparently feel it's useless at this point.

         8       This house says if you want to get out, we've

         9       got to work tomorrow.

        10                      Well, maybe in the middle of

        11       June, we shouldn't be posturing if you want to

        12       get out.  I mean what does it mean?  Is June 15

        13       the start of posturing and politics into the

        14       matter?  I hope not.  I want to get out.

        15                      The courts are very vital to the

        16       existence of a civilized society, and it

        17       shouldn't be this kind of pulling and tugging.

        18       I think that the bill is taking us in a

        19       direction which makes it look like this

        20       distinguished house is politicizing the courts.

        21                      There's so much to do, real

        22       issues.  Do we believe in merger or not?  God

        23       forbid.  But are there other things that we











                                                             
5141

         1       should be dealing with?  But just to start

         2       pulling out and creating a district here because

         3       politically it's the right time, I really do

         4       oppose it, and that's the way I'm going to vote.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The chair

         6       recognizes Senator DiCarlo.

         7                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.  Having represented both Brooklyn and

         9       Staten Island I think I can see both sides of

        10       this issue as nobody here can, and I find

        11       interesting that Senator Gold used the word

        12       politicizing the courts.

        13                      Being a Republican from Kings

        14       County who has a lot of experience with courts

        15       in Kings County and the Second Judicial

        16       District, I don't think we're politicizing the

        17       courts here.  I think that's something that has

        18       been done over the years, and I would like to

        19       see a little bit of fresh air brought into the

        20       court system, not only in the state but

        21       especially in the Second Judicial District.

        22                      I represent Brooklyn and Staten

        23       Island, as I've said, and I live in Brooklyn.











                                                             
5142

         1       But I have to tell you that not only do the

         2       people in my district in Brooklyn not get

         3       represented in the courts in the Second Judicial

         4       District because we have no say in who gets

         5       elected basically in a county of two and a half

         6       million, but the people of Staten Island have

         7       absolutely no voice in who sits on the bench in

         8       the Second Judicial District.

         9                      It is the right thing to do for

        10       the people of Staten Island, and I think that

        11       you are correct, Senator Connor, that this whole

        12       system is going to be shaken apart very quickly

        13       and very soon, and the way that we elect judges

        14       in this state, Supreme Court judges, is not

        15       going to be around for a lot, much longer

        16       because it is, based on the Georgia decision,

        17       unconstitutional.

        18                      I look forward to the day when we

        19       no longer elect judges the way we do in the

        20       Second Judicial District.  I believe that,

        21       eventually, we're going to have Supreme Court

        22       Judicial District which would not be in

        23       violation of the Voting Rights Act.  It's











                                                             
5143

         1       coming, and I think that the people of Staten

         2       Island deserve their voice to be heard, and I

         3       would recommend that everybody support this

         4       bill.  It's the right thing to do, and I think

         5       eventually it's going to happen.

         6                      Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The chair

         8       recognizes Senator Lack.

         9                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.  I must say I apologize to Senator

        11       Connor.  I missed his part of the debate, but

        12       from what I've heard since I came in, I do find

        13       it very funny, as Senator Gold did, wanting to

        14       know why Senator Marchi could possibly want a

        15       13th judicial district that would encompass the

        16       County of Richmond in the City of New York.

        17                      Of course, for a little history

        18       as we talk about the establishment of judicial

        19       districts, Senator Galiber very honestly stood

        20       up and said, "Well, we wanted Bronx," and that's

        21       the 12th Judicial District in this state.  Of

        22       course, Senator Gold comes from Queens.  That's

        23       the 11th Judicial District in this state, and a











                                                             
5144

         1       fine one at that.  One has to think about how

         2       did we get an 11th and how did we get a 12th,

         3       and we got an 11th, and we got a 12th because of

         4       Senator Gold, Senator Galiber, their colleagues

         5       in both houses who said, "Hey, now, wait a

         6       minute."  We in Queens, we in Bronx, we've got

         7       little problems being tied to Brooklyn or being

         8       tied to Manhattan, and we, of course, want to

         9       speak for ourselves in the county of Queens and

        10       the County of Bronx.  So, please, can we

        11       establish a judicial district?

        12                      And do you know what?  Colleagues

        13       in this house, Republicans and Democrats,

        14       listened and said, "Okay, that's what you want,

        15       that's what you can have."

        16                      You know, the law only allows

        17       this to happen once every ten years.  So it's

        18       not like every 15 seconds someone is plucking a

        19       new judicial district off a tree.  And, in fact,

        20       the last two that were created were within the

        21       City of New York with people expressing the same

        22       sentiments that Senator Marchi is on behalf of

        23       his constituents.











                                                             
5145

         1                      So, Senator Marchi, I'm proud as

         2       chair of the Judiciary Committee to support your

         3       effort, and I really don't think it's

         4       posturing.  You are evidencing a very grave

         5       concern of your constituents and one that I

         6       think should happen.

         7                      As far as the Assembly not being

         8       here tomorrow, well, Senator Gold, I really wish

         9       the Assembly would get here tomorrow.  Perhaps a

        10       little more posturing is needed to get through

        11       session.  All of us who have been here all these

        12       years know, until that starts, you don't really

        13       get through session.

        14                      One last comment again, Senator

        15       Connor, I'm sorry I missed your comments on the

        16       voting rights situation.  Yes, indeed, it's been

        17       in the newspapers.  The Civil Rights Division,

        18       the United States Department of Justice,

        19       pursuant to their authority under the Voting

        20       Rights Act, has been pulling information about

        21       judicial elections in the State of New York.

        22       Indeed, there is a meeting that's been going on

        23       this afternoon in which, going back 20, 30











                                                             
5146

         1       years, they are pulling information.

         2                      The state is under no sanctions.

         3       The Civil Rights Division has not yet announced

         4       anything that they want the State of New York to

         5       do.  They are still looking into it.  There is

         6       at this point -- unless you want to abolish

         7       election of judges.  I then might hear Senator

         8       Gold standing up and having a few other comments

         9       to make and abolishing that system whatsoever,

        10       which might happen.

        11                      The creation of a 13th judicial

        12       district vis-a-vis what is going on with the

        13       Division of Civil Rights isn't going to matter

        14       any more than the creation of the 12th Judicial

        15       District or the 11th Judicial District vis-a-vis

        16       that type of investigation that's going on.

        17                      If, indeed, there are results of

        18       that that come before this Legislature and

        19       announce we will when we get a pattern of what

        20       to follow from the federal government as we do

        21       for all such things, I would assume we would

        22       comply.  But other than shooting in the dark and

        23       trying to divine what it is that the federal











                                                             
5147

         1       government is looking at with respect to our

         2       judicial elections within the voting rights

         3       counties in the City of New York, quite frankly,

         4       as I said, other than abolishing election of

         5       judges, which I don't think would be very

         6       popular if we suddenly put on the floor of this

         7       Legislature, there is nothing for us to do.

         8                      So, Senator Marchi, I'm happy to

         9       vote when the time comes in the affirmative for

        10       your piece of legislation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        19       the results.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 1161 are

        22       Senators Dollinger, Gold, Kruger, Montgomery,

        23       and Ohrenstein.  Ayes 50.  Nays 5.











                                                             
5148

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      Senator Goodman.

         4                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

         5       May I reiterate once again our cordial

         6       invitation to all members of this house to come

         7       to Saratoga Performing Arts Center this evening

         8       for the purpose of having a congenial dinner and

         9       listening to "Madam Butterfly" by Jacimo

        10       Puccini, a poignant story, as you all know,

        11       involving the sad visitation of a Naval

        12       lieutenant to the continent of Japan, where he

        13       fell in love with an exquisite and wonderful

        14       young Japanese lady and, alas, ultimately

        15       abandoned her, having nothing whatsoever to do

        16       with anything other than the fact that this is a

        17       deeply moving and melodious event which I think

        18       will bring joy and tears to every member who

        19       witnesses it.  Without each and every one of

        20       you, the evening will not be complete.  The food

        21       will be superb, and the entertainment courtesy

        22       of the New York City Opera and the outstanding

        23       tradition of the Senate Committee on the Arts











                                                             
5149

         1       and Cultural Affairs.  Look forward to seeing

         2       you all 6:30 sharp at SPAC.

         3                      Thank you very much.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

         5       you, Senator Goodman.

         6                      Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. Cornell,

         8       are you all straightened up, no house keeping?

         9                      Great!

        10                      Mr. President.  I would like to

        11       announce an immediate meeting of the Rules

        12       Committee in Room 332.  I now ask the Senate

        13       stand at ease awaiting the Rules Committee

        14       report.  Upon the receipt of that report, the

        15       Senate will adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00

        16       a.m.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        18       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        19       Committee in Room 332.  The Senate will stand at

        20       ease until the report of the Rules Committee is

        21       available.

        22                      Senator Leichter.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  May I have











                                                             
5150

         1       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         2       on calendar 1161.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         4       objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in

         5       the negative on Calendar 1161.

         6                      Senate will stand at ease.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you very

         8       much.

         9                      (Whereupon, at 3:17 p.m., the

        10       Senate was at ease.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        12       will come to order.

        13                      Senator Present.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        15       Can we return to report of standing committees

        16       please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

        18       report of a standing committee.  Secretary will

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino

        21       from the Committee on Rules reports the

        22       following bills directly for Third Reading:

        23                      Senate Bill Number 2549, by











                                                             
5151

         1       Senator Cook, an act to amend the Education Law.

         2                      3178B, by Senator Babbush,

         3       authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its

         4       interest in certain real property.

         5                      4485A, by Senator DeFrancisco,

         6       authorize the city of Syracuse to replace

         7       residential water service lines.

         8                      4646A, by Senator Espada,

         9       authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its

        10       interest in certain real property.

        11                      7497, by Senator Larkin, an act

        12       to amend the Labor Law.

        13                      7699, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

        14       amend the General Municipal Law.

        15                      7849, by Senator Cook,

        16       authorizing the transfer and retirement plans

        17       for certain police department employees.

        18                      7870, by Senator Farley, an act

        19       to amend the Education Law.

        20                      7882, by Senator Tully, an act to

        21       amend the Executive Law.

        22                      7887, by Senator DeFrancisco,

        23       authorizing the Town of Camillus to discontinue











                                                             
5152

         1       the use of parklands.

         2                      7921, by Senator Trunzo, County

         3       of Suffolk to least certain parklands.

         4                      7951, by Senator Volker, an act

         5       to amend the Local Finance Law.

         6                      8036, by Senator Bruno, authorize

         7       the waiver of certain reports required to be

         8       submitted by the Brunswick Central School

         9       District.

        10                      8061, by Senator Daly, Monroe

        11       County Tax Act.

        12                      8108, by Senator Skelos, Estates,

        13       Powers and Trusts Law.

        14                      8361, by Senator Johnson, Suffolk

        15       County charter.

        16                      8448, by Senator Sears, General

        17       Business Law.

        18                      8472A, by Senator DeFrancisco,

        19       Real Property Tax Law.

        20                      8574, by Senator Nozzolio,

        21       Agriculture and Markets Law.

        22                      All bills reported directly to

        23       third reading.











                                                             
5153

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All bills

         2       will be reported directly to third reading.

         3                      Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

         5       There being no further business, I move that we

         6       adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

         8       stands adjourned upon the motion of the

         9       Temporary President to tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

        10                      (Whereupon, at 3:33 p.m., Senate

        11       adjourned.)

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23