Regular Session - June 22, 1994
5340
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 22, 1994
11 12:14 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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5341
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
3 will come to order. Ask members to rise and ask
4 guests in the gallery to rise and join me in
5 saying the pledge of allegiance to the American
6 flag.
7 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 We're very pleased to be joined
10 by a constituent of Senator Oppenheimer's, the
11 Rabbi Douglas Kranz from the Congregation B'Nai
12 Yisrael from Armonk, New York.
13 Rabbi Kranz.
14 RABBI DOUGLAS KRANZ: Sovereign
15 of the Universe. We gather here with noble
16 purpose. Here within these walls the fate of
17 people is decided. Here in this hall, words are
18 spoken and decisions are made which will
19 determine the future of our children.
20 Here we gather with those who
21 sail the ship of state. I suspect every member
22 of the clergy uses those words from time to
23 time, but it seems to me that they are important
5342
1 words. What should be said to those who are
2 sailors on the ship, the course of which
3 determines our destiny?
4 We might suggest that like
5 sailors of old time, sometimes those who are on
6 the vessel become focused on the skirmishes
7 which take place on the deck. Here, where life
8 is lived on the deck, too many pander to the
9 politics of pollsters. Here on the deck, too
10 many are engaged in the pursuit of power.
11 We are so human, all of us, we
12 forget to look to the horizon to watch for the
13 shoals, the sandbars, the rocks, the dangers,
14 that might wreck the ship which we sail
15 together.
16 Too many speak about truths and
17 budgetary realities, or so it seems to me, when
18 we suffer, instead, from a spiritual crisis in
19 our society. In my religious tradition, we say
20 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord
21 is one."
22 Just as God is one, so too all
23 people are one; yet we do not live that way
5343
1 today. Today, that oneness is divided, white
2 against black, city against suburb, rich against
3 poor.
4 The spiritual blight of our
5 society is characterize by roles of prejudice
6 and hatred and fear and anger as strong and as
7 profound as any that could ever be built with
8 bricks and mortar. These divisions mar the
9 dignity of God which created every human being
10 as one.
11 These are not matters of
12 budgets. These are maladies of the spirit.
13 Even today in New York City, the hungry and the
14 homeless, the AIDS infected and the mentally
15 infirmed were banished from the street corners
16 because we can not bear to look upon them.
17 Shame on us, because they are God's children.
18 God's children suffer, and we dare not avert our
19 eyes.
20 So the prayer is that we might
21 all of us cast aside the politics of power and
22 seek to break down the divisions that have come
23 to separate one from the other. Is that not the
5344
1 hope of all of us being here together today? Is
2 that not our prayer, that those who labor here
3 at last do God's work?
4 Let us together break down the
5 barriers that divide human beings. Let us
6 together, shoulder to shoulder, set aside the
7 divisions of that which was meant to be one, the
8 creation in which God's children might flourish.
9 That that be our hope and our
10 prayer as together we say amen.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
12 of the Journal.
13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
14 Tuesday, June 21. The Senate met pursuant to
15 adjournment. Senator Spano in the chair upon
16 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer
17 by Rabbi Robert A. Rothman of Rye, New York.
18 The Journal of Monday, June 20, was read and
19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
5345
1 Messages from the Assembly.
2 Messages from the Governor.
3 Reports of standing committees.
4 Reports of select committees.
5 Communication and reports from
6 state officers.
7 Motions and resolutions.
8 Senator Farley.
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
10 President. On behalf yourself, Senator Kuhl,
11 Mr. President, I wish to call up his bill,
12 Senate Print 3718A, which was recalled from the
13 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl,
17 Senate Bill Number 3718A, an act to amend the
18 Public Officers Law.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
20 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
21 bill was passed.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
5346
1 (The Secretary called the roll on
2 reconsideration.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is before the house.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
7 I now offer the following amendments and I ask
8 the bill retain its place.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 amendments are received and adopted. The bill
11 will retain its place on the Third Reading
12 Calendar.
13 Senator Farley.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
15 Senator Skelos, Mr. President, please place a
16 sponsor star on Calendar Number 600.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor
18 star is placed on Calendar Number 600.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
20 Senator Daly, on page 4, I offer the following
21 amendments to Calendar 261, Senate Print 4583C,
22 and I ask that that bill retain its place.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
5347
1 Amendments received and adopted. The bill will
2 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
3 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Trunzo.
6 SENATOR TRUNZO: Will you please
7 place a sponsor star on Calendar Number 1279.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor
9 star is placed on Calendar Number 1279.
10 Senator Present, we have some
11 substitutions we would like to read.
12 Secretary will read the
13 substitutions.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 30 of
15 today's calendar, Senator Skelos moves to
16 discharge the Committee on Local Government from
17 Assembly Bill Number 4939B and substitute it for
18 the identical Third Reading 1265.
19 On page 31, Senator Skelos moves
20 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
21 Assembly Bill Number 9235B and substitute it for
22 the identical Third Reading 1268.
23 Senator Saland moves to discharge
5348
1 the Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill
2 Number 10191 and substitute it for the identical
3 Third Reading 1271.
4 On page 32, Senator Rath moves to
5 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
6 Bill Number 9847A and substitute it for the
7 identical Third Reading 1273.
8 On page 32, Senator Kuhl moves to
9 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly
10 Bill Number 11418 and substitute it for the
11 identical Third Reading 1275.
12 On page 32, Senator Padavan moves
13 to discharge the Committee on Finance from
14 Assembly Bill Number 9354 and substitute it for
15 the identical Third Reading 1276.
16 On page 32, Senator Johnson moves
17 to discharge the Committee on Finance from
18 Assembly Bill Number 10699 and substitute it for
19 the identical Third Reading 1278.
20 On page 33, Senator Babbush moves
21 to discharge the Committee on Rules from
22 Assembly Bill Number 11542 and substitute it for
23 the identical Third Reading 1284.
5349
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2 Substitutions are ordered.
3 Senator Padavan.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: I have a
5 privileged resolution at the desk, Mr.
6 President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
8 a privileged resolution at the desk. Secretary
9 will read the title.
10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
11 Resolution, by Senator Padavan, honoring Kenneth
12 Auer for distinguished community services upon
13 the occasion of his designation for special
14 honor by the Holy Cross High School community at
15 a testimonial to be held on June 27, 1994.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Move to adopt
17 the resolution.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
19 is on the resolution. All those in favor,
20 signify by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (There was no response.)
5350
1 The resolution is adopted.
2 Senator Present.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
4 I believe Senator Daly has a privileged
5 resolution at the desk. May we have the title
6 read and have it acted on?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
8 will read the privileged resolution by Senator
9 Daly.
10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
11 Resolution, by Senators Daly and Nozzolio,
12 commending the Monroe County School Board
13 Association upon the occasion of its 25 years of
14 dedicated service to public education in Monroe
15 County and New York State.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 question is on the resolution. All those in
18 favor, signify by saying aye.
19 SENATOR CONNOR: Excuse me, Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Connor.
23 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President.
5351
1 I wonder if we could open this up for additional
2 sponsorship if the sponsor would agree.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Daly is not in the chamber.
5 Senator Present, what is your
6 wish on that particular matter?
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
8 until we hear from Senator Daly.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 resolution will be laid aside temporarily.
11 Senator Present.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you
13 recognize Senator Larkin, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Larkin.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President.
17 There is a privileged resolution at the desk.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read Senator Larkin's privileged
20 resolution, at least the title of that
21 resolution, at the desk.
22 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
23 Resolution, by Senator Larkin, commending the
5352
1 Horizons on the Hudson Magnet School upon the
2 occasion of its designation as a "Blue Ribbon
3 School" by the United States Department of
4 Education.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 question is on the resolution. All those in
7 favor, signify by saying aye.
8 (Response of "Aye.")
9 Those opposed, nay.
10 (There was no response.)
11 The resolution is adopted.
12 Senator Present.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
14 In behalf of Senator Goodman, I believe he has a
15 privileged resolution at the desk. May we have
16 the title read and have it acted upon.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
18 a privileged resolution by Senator Goodman at
19 the desk.
20 Secretary will read the title.
21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
22 Resolution, by Senator Goodman, honoring the
23 Lennox Hill Neighborhood Association on its
5353
1 100th Anniversary.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
3 is on the resolution. All those in favor,
4 signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 Those opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 The resolution is adopted.
9 Senator Present.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
11 Can we take up the non-controversial calendar,
12 please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the non-controversial calendar.
15 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
16 Calendar Number 379, by Senator Cook, Senate
17 Bill Number 4936A, an act to amend the Education
18 Law, in relation to shared services aid.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5354
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 381, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
9 1898, an act to amend the Executive Law, in
10 relation to parole release of certain inmates.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 429, by Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
5355
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
4 for the day.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 881, by Senator Solomon, Senate Bill Number
9 2774, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 907, by Senator Levy.
22 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5356
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 933, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Bill Number
4 7050, an act to amend the Executive Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1118, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
17 5056A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
5357
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1164, by Senator Kuhl.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
8 for the day.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
10 bill aside for the day.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1186, by Senator -
13 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1213, by Senator Kuhl.
18 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1243, by Senator Kuhl.
23 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
5358
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1247, by Senator Wright.
5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Lay it aside for
6 the day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
8 bill aside for the day.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1252, by Senator Kuhl.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill
12 aside for the day.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside for the day.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1254, by Senator Wright.
17 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1255, by Senator Rath.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5359
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number
3 1257, by Senator Santiago.
4 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside for
5 the day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside for the day.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1258, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 623,
10 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1259, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number
23 1127, an act to amend the Public Lands Law.
5360
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1260, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
13 1155, an act to amend the Penal Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
5361
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1261, by Senator Larkin.
3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
4 for the day.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1262, by Senator Paterson, Senate Bill Number
9 2241A, authorizing the City of New York to
10 reconvey its interest in certain real property.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
12 a home rule message at the desk.
13 Secretary will read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5362
1 1263, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number
2 3739A, an act to amend the Retirement and Social
3 Security Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
5 a home rule message at the desk.
6 Secretary will read the last
7 section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1264, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number
18 4186A, an act to amend the Public Authorities
19 Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5363
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1265, substituted earlier today, by member of
9 the Assembly Harenberg, Assembly Bill Number
10 4939A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
11 Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1266, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
5364
1 5387A, an act to amend the Education Law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1267, by Senator Kuhl.
7 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside for
8 Senator Oppenheimer, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed? I'm sorry. Lay the bill aside for
11 Senator Oppenheimer.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1268, substituted earlier today, by member of
14 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Bill Number
15 9235B, an act to amend the Penal Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5365
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1269, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number
5 6740, Real Property Tax Law, partial payment of
6 taxes in Chautauqua County.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
8 will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1270, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
19 7076A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5366
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1271, substituted earlier today, by member of
9 the Assembly Hickey, Assembly Bill Number 10191,
10 payment of special district payment by the state
11 to the Town of Poughkeepsie.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
13 local fiscal impact note at the desk.
14 Secretary will read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
5367
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1272, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 7395,
3 an act to amend the Education Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
5 will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1273, substituted earlier today, by member of
16 the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Bill Number
17 9847A, an act to amend the Executive Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
5368
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1274, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7755A,
7 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1275, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
20 Committee on Rules Assembly 11418, an act to
21 amend the Judiciary Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will read the last section.
5369
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1276, substituted earlier today, by member of
11 the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number 9354,
12 an act to amend the Executive Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5370
1 1277, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
2 7907, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
3 Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
5 will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1278, substituted earlier today, by member of
16 the Assembly Harenberg, Assembly Bill Number
17 10699, an act to amend the Executive Law.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5371
1 Leichter.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3 President. Is Calendar 1276 still in the house,
4 please?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Leichter, the bill still is in the house.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, may I ask
8 that we reconsider the vote by which the bill
9 passed.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
12 bill passed the house.
13 The Secretary will call the roll
14 on reconsideration.
15 (The Secretary called the roll on
16 reconsideration.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is before the house.
20 Senator Leichter.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Could you lay
22 it aside, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5372
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1280, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number
4 8091, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
6 a home rule message at the desk.
7 Secretary will read the last
8 section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1281, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number
19 8210, an act to amend the Banking Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
5373
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1282, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number
9 8248A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
10 Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1283, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number
23 8268, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
5374
1 Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 LaValle.
4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President.
5 Can I ask unanimous -- are we in the middle
6 of -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator,
8 we're in the middle of a roll call.
9 Secretary will read the last
10 section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator LaValle.
20 SENATOR LAVALLE: May I ask
21 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
22 on Calendar Number 1280, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1280,
5375
1 Senator LaValle?
2 It did pass. Senator LaValle
3 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
4 Number 1280.
5 Secretary will continue the
6 calendar.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1284, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11542,
10 State of New York to sell and convey to the City
11 of New York and the City of New York certain
12 public lands.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There
14 is a home rule request here at the desk.
15 Read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bill is passed.
5376
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1285, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8581,
3 Uniform Justice Court Act.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1286, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
16 8593, amends Chapter 165 of the Laws of 1826.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5377
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1287, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8605.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay
8 that bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1288, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number
11 5606B, an act to amend the Public Health Law and
12 the Social Services Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. Nays
21 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
23 bill is passed.
5378
1 Senator Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
3 Will you recognize Senator Daly relative to the
4 resolution he has at the desk.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
6 Daly.
7 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I
8 will be happy to open up my resolution for any
9 co-sponsors.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: With
11 your permission, Senator Present, we'll read the
12 resolution right now, out of order.
13 Secretary will read the title of
14 the privileged resolution.
15 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
16 Resolution, by Senators Daly, Nozzolio and
17 others, commending the Monroe County School
18 Board Association upon the occasion of its 25
19 years of dedicated service to public education
20 in Monroe County and New York State.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in
22 favor of the resolution, say aye.
23 (Response of "Aye.")
5379
1 Those opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 The resolution is adopted.
4 Those who wish to become
5 sponsors, please notify the desk.
6 Senator Present.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's use the
8 other procedure. All those will be included as
9 sponsors except those who deny.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
11 Everyone will be on the resolution except those
12 who approach the desk.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
14 Will you take up the controversial calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Secretary will read the controversial.
17 THE SECRETARY: On page 21,
18 Calendar Number 907, by Senator Levy.
19 SENATOR GOLD: May we have a day
20 on this?
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
22 temporarily.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
5380
1 aside temporarily.
2 THE SECRETARY: On page 28,
3 Calendar Number 1186, by Senator Libous, Senate
4 Bill Number 7975, Tax Law and the Social
5 Services Law.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a day
7 on this, Senator Libous? Senator Galiber wants
8 a day on this.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
12 bill aside for the day.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1213, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 4141A,
15 require the New York State and Local Employees
16 Retirement System to accept retirement
17 applications.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
20 Explanation had been asked for.
21 Senator Kuhl.
22 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
23 President. This is a bill that would extend to
5381
1 a single individual who is retired from the
2 Gorham Middlesex Central School eligibility
3 under a three-year credit incentive of the laws
4 of 1984.
5 Mary Hobart at the time of the
6 eligibility for the three-year credit incentive
7 for early retirement filed an application with
8 the State Retirement Board, which the State
9 Retirement Board says it never received. So she
10 has been denied her eligibility for that early
11 retirement system.
12 There are not currently any laws
13 that would allow her to gain that early
14 retirement incentive without special legislation
15 which this is, and that's the reason for this
16 bill.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
19 Gold.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I
21 had my staff prepare an amendment which would
22 take care of these situations. It's an
23 amendment to the Trunzo law. I showed it to
5382
1 Senator Trunzo, and we are going to hopefully
2 with Senator Trunzo introduce it. Otherwise,
3 I'm going to introduce it myself.
4 But it would take care of this
5 lady and other people in a general way and get
6 it out of the Legislature. I'm not going to
7 repeat the debate from yesterday, but, Senator
8 Kuhl, I'm going to vote against this as a
9 private bill. If the woman is entitled to help,
10 I hope she will get that through the
11 administration procedure that maybe we can pass
12 into law within the next couple of weeks.
13 It's the wrong way to do it, as
14 we've said so many times, if we do it on an
15 individual basis.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
17 the last section.
18 Senator Dollinger, do you wish to
19 speak?
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One other
21 question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
23 Kuhl, would you yield to a question from Senator
5383
1 Dollinger.
2 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
3 President. I will yield to Senator Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, is
5 there any long term cost to the pension system
6 of making this change? As you know, yesterday,
7 I think when you were in the chair, I raised the
8 issue with the bill that Senator Cook brought
9 up, where there was a $315,000 additional payout
10 from the retirement system to those individuals.
11 My question is apart from the
12 $12,000 one-time cost which will be paid by the
13 Gorham Middlesex School District, is there a
14 greater pension benefit or a greater payment
15 that would be required from the system in order
16 to accommodate the needs of this particular
17 applicant?
18 SENATOR KUHL: Not that I'm aware
19 of Senator Dollinger, not that was not
20 anticipated at the time of the earlier incentive
21 being offered. So there's nothing that this
22 bill would have added to any system that was
23 available that Mary Hobart was entitled to at
5384
1 the time of her application.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
3 Senator. I concur with Senator Gold's push for
4 getting this out of the political process and
5 the legislative process. I think that's a good
6 idea. I look forward to seeing that amendment
7 and voting in favor of it.
8 In this case, I'm going to vote
9 in favor of this one and distinguish it from
10 yesterday's vote because yesterday's vote would
11 have required a major additional contribution
12 from the pension system to cover the pension
13 cost. But if this is a $12,000 cost that the
14 Gorham Middlesex School District is willing to
15 pay, and I believe they've agreed to pay, then
16 there is no additional drain on the pension
17 system, and I think it's distinguishable on that
18 basis.
19 So I'll vote in the affirmative,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5385
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. Nays
6 3. Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded
7 in the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1243, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 8460,
12 an act in relation to membership in State Police
13 20-year retirement plan.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Explanation has been asked for.
17 Senator Kuhl.
18 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for
19 the day please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
21 bill aside for the day.
22 Senator Dollinger.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
5386
1 President. I would like unanimous consent to
2 change my vote on the most recent bill . On
3 reviewing the bill, even though it's not in the
4 text of the memo, there is an indication it will
5 cost $170,000 in additional funds from the state
6 pension system, which Senator Leichter pointed
7 out to me, which does raise the same problem
8 that was posed by the bill yesterday.
9 So I would like unanimous consent
10 to change my vote on the immediate prior bill
11 involving the woman from the Gorham Middlesex
12 School system.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
14 objection, Senator Dollinger will be in the
15 negative on 1213.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1254, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number
18 8592, an act to amend Chapter 533 of the laws of
19 1993, amending the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside
21 for the day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
23 aside for the day.
5387
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1255, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8604,
3 an act to amend the Executive Law.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1266, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number
9 5387A, an act to amend the Education Law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
11 second.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1267, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 6109B,
5388
1 an act to amend the General Business Law.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:
3 Explanation, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There
5 has been a explanation asked for by Senator
6 Oppenheimer.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
8 President. Two years ago, the Legislature
9 unanimously adopted a bill that established in
10 the State of New York a requirement for the
11 licensing of security guard companies and for
12 the licensing of people who worked for security
13 guard companies, essentially security guards.
14 It was the understanding, I
15 think, of most of the members of this house and
16 certainly as indicated by a memo from the
17 Division of the Budget to the Governor in
18 suggesting that the Governor sign that bill,
19 which was to become known as the Security Guard
20 Act I believe of 1992, that this was -- that
21 piece of legislation was meant to set up a
22 standard for the so-called quote/unquote, "rent
23 a cop" operations. It was meant to protect the
5389
1 public from people who might otherwise have been
2 convicted of a felony, might have a criminal
3 record, from essentially preying on the people
4 they were being hired to protect.
5 Shortly after the adoption of
6 that bill into law, the awareness of what the
7 actual definition, the technical definition said
8 was brought to my attention and to, I'm sure,
9 several other members of this house and the
10 other house's attention as to what it did. The
11 definition was written so broadly that it
12 incorporated at that time or was interpreted to
13 incorporate people that did not really provide
14 security guard services in the traditional
15 sense.
16 We have had conjecture from
17 people who are in the businesses, across this
18 state, that it applies to them at times when
19 they thought it never should apply to them. We
20 have heard from proprietary institutions,
21 private manufacturing operations, we've heard
22 from public entities, we've heard from the State
23 of New York agencies, who say that this bill as
5390
1 it currently exists -- or I should say this law
2 as it currently exists will cause them
3 inumerable difficulties and tremendous costs.
4 We've heard from agencies like the Department of
5 Parks and Recreation that people who are
6 employed by them for summertime, part-time jobs,
7 those lifeguards, those people who take tickets
8 at entries into the parks would have to become
9 licensed as security guards. We have heard from
10 people who operate ski slopes that their
11 volunteer ski patrols will in fact -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
13 Gold, why do you rise?
14 SENATOR GOLD: If Senator Kuhl
15 will just indulge me. Calendar 1266 which we
16 just passed, can we just hold that at the desk,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's
19 left the house already.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I'd like to
21 get it back into the house, if we could. We are
22 talking about a matter of minutes and I'd like
23 to get that back.
5391
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's up
2 to the sponsor -- Senator Stafford.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, can I make a
4 suggestion?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You can
6 make any suggestion you want.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Suggestion is that
8 we just passed this a couple moments ago. One
9 of my members would like it recalled.
10 Now, if we have to worry about
11 the sponsor, then I won't pass any bill from now
12 until the end of the session unless the sponsor
13 is sitting here.
14 Now, I thought it was nice -- it
15 was a Stafford bill. I didn't make him be here,
16 and I thought we could pass it. Now, the bill
17 left within minutes or even earlier. I would
18 like that bill brought back. I am asking nicely
19 and I want to see you getting the bill back.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
21 Deputy Majority Leader can make a decision.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I appreciate
23 everybody reaching out to him, and I'd just want
5392
1 to be out in the open, because I'd like to look
2 everybody in the eye as I talk.
3 If that's the rule, there will
4 not be one bill passed from now until the end of
5 the session unless the sponsor is in this room
6 so if there is a problem we can deal with the
7 sponsor. If that's okay with the majority who's
8 probably got 99 percent of the bills, that's
9 fine.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
11 Present is the floor leader.
12 Senator Present, what's your
13 pleasure on this?
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
15 We're attempting to check with Senator Stafford.
16 I think the rule of the house is that the
17 sponsor has control of the bills, and we will
18 contact Senator Stafford as soon as possible.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Let the record
20 indicate I appreciate Senator Present's
21 cooperation, as usual, but I still want that
22 bill back.
23 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order.
5393
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Regular
2 order.
3 We are on an explanation by
4 Senator Kuhl.
5 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You
8 have your point.
9 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr.
10 President. We've also heard from institutions
11 of higher learning, state universities, public
12 universities, that in fact have told us that the
13 law as it currently exists would prevent them
14 from providing scholarships to many of their
15 students, people who present a situation where
16 they can provide some sort of containment of
17 students who are going to school, people who are
18 commonly known as resident advisors and others
19 who live in a dorm; that all of a sudden, that
20 these people will be required to go through a
21 licensing as a security guard, and will actually
22 diminish the security because they will not be
23 able to do that financially; and, also, it will
5394
1 diminish their ability to provide scholarships
2 to these needy students.
3 We have also heard from retail
4 chains that this will seriously interfere with
5 the kind of security that they are currently
6 providing to their consumers.
7 So in total, Senator Oppenheimer,
8 what we have heard from the general public and
9 numerous different aspects of that -- and I
10 would go through a listing if you want me to,
11 and I can do that very quickly, of just some of
12 the people who have come out in support of this
13 bill who have said that they have difficulty
14 with the law as it currently exists.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I have it
16 here, Senator Kuhl.
17 SENATOR KUHL: Do you have the
18 list, Senator? Because it's growing every day.
19 It's growing. My file is so extensive. That's
20 the problem. It's getting to be mountainous,
21 and it's tough to find all the information, but
22 it's very extensive, and it covers a broad
23 range, practically every industry, every
5395
1 business, every not-for-profit, every
2 governmental entity in this state. People like
3 the Association of Counties, the Conference of
4 Mayors, the Business Council of the State of New
5 York. And then we get into individual listings
6 of people who oppose the bill as it currently
7 exists -- or the law as it currently exists.
8 What this bill does is very
9 simple. This bill attempts to draw a line as to
10 those people who would be covered and those
11 people who would not be covered. And it's
12 extremely difficult when you try to get into the
13 nature of the operation of what people provide
14 in the form of service in each institution, in
15 each business, in each not-for-profit
16 organization.
17 So what we have done in this
18 proposal is to draw that line and to draw that
19 line such that it excludes governmental
20 entities, not-for-profit institutions and
21 proprietary institutions. What would remain
22 would be the, quote/unquote, "rent a cop
23 operations", those Burns, those detective
5396
1 agencies like that, that in fact supported the
2 initial bill.
3 And the bill, again, as I
4 perceived it and as many of our people perceived
5 it, went beyond what it was intended to do, at
6 least as to what the initial motive, what the
7 selling operation was to this conference, to
8 your conference, and to the other chamber for
9 its adoption.
10 And, as I say, that was -- that
11 was pretty much indicated in a memo that went
12 from the Division of the Budget to the Governor
13 which essentially said, yes, we support this
14 bill and think it ought to be enacted into law
15 for these reasons. Nowhere in that is there any
16 discussion about a need to register
17 not-for-profits, proprietary institutions or
18 governmental entities.
19 And what we're finding is that
20 when you really get to an overall total as to
21 what this would cost the State of New York, the
22 estimates are upwards of $200 million or more to
23 implement this process in the State of New
5397
1 York. We have had testimony from -- for
2 instance, at a hearing that I had about a month
3 ago, from Syracuse University. And they told us
4 that to implement this process for them alone,
5 it was going to cost them upwards from a quarter
6 to a half a million dollars annually.
7 So it's a very expensive law as
8 was adopted. We mean to take the costliness out
9 of it to essentially direct the initial motive
10 of the bill to where we think it really was
11 intended, and that's the reason for this
12 amendment.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
14 Oppenheimer.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
16 President. I think you have an amendment at the
17 desk.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes,
19 there is an amendment here at the desk.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Okay.
21 Well, I'll waive its reading, and I will briefly
22 explain it.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5398
1 Oppenheimer on the amendment.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There are
3 actually two reform bills here, one in the
4 Assembly and one in the Senate, and I support
5 some of the things that you are trying to do,
6 Senator Kuhl, and I would like to address the
7 areas where the two bills are different, because
8 it is the Dugan bill -- you can't hear?
9 Okay. It's the Dugan bill -- can
10 you hear now? It's the Dugan bill that I want
11 to speak to because that's what my amendment
12 is.
13 As I said, both houses have
14 separate bills, so we have to work out the
15 differences and come to some kind of agreement.
16 The Assembly bill sponsor feels that the changes
17 in the Senate bill are just too sweeping and
18 that they are unnecessary, and that the Mega
19 bill as we passed it a couple of years ago is
20 really a fine bill and solved some very real
21 problems, but that there are certain exceptions
22 that should be made.
23 The amendment that I have before
5399
1 you exempts only companies that employ less than
2 five guards from the licensing requirement.
3 Right now, the bill that is before you prior to
4 my amendment exempts all companies that employ
5 security guards on an inhouse basis. My bill
6 would only exempt those companies that employ
7 less than five guards.
8 In addition, my bill would
9 still -- my amendment would still require the
10 inhouse guards to be trained and registered and
11 fingerprinted and to be subject to background
12 checks; whereas, the prior bill exempts all
13 security guards employed on an inhouse basis.
14 In other ways, my amendment is
15 similar. It would exempt police and full-time
16 police officers from background and training
17 requirements because our police and our peace
18 officers already have to go through substantial
19 background checks and have substantial
20 training.
21 One of the issues that was
22 mentioned by Senator Kuhl in his memorandum was
23 the excessive cost of the fees and the excessive
5400
1 time consumed in filling out the various forms.
2 The fact is we should have oversight of our
3 departments and our agencies; and if the
4 regulations are such that they are onerous, we
5 should be able to change that. And to throw out
6 the baby -- oh, that's a bad analogy -- with the
7 bathwater -- excuse me -- I think is incorrect.
8 I think we should definitely get a handle on the
9 rules and regulations that are made that might
10 prove contrary or onerous to the intent of our
11 laws. That's something we are always fighting.
12 When I was holding hearings a few
13 years ago, my task force on women's issues, we
14 heard that there were considerable problems with
15 on-campus security guards; that in many
16 instances, they did not have proper training,
17 that there weren't background checks, that
18 sometimes they were covering up the very crimes
19 that they were supposed to be reporting. And
20 many of my private colleges in my district but
21 also around the state came and said, we
22 absolutely must have the opportunity to check
23 into the backgrounds of these people we want to
5401
1 hire as security guards, and that was not
2 available to them at that time. And, Senator
3 Mega's bill was the correcting influence there,
4 and we were able to check on the backgrounds of
5 security guards on campus so that they were no
6 longer unknown factors and, in many cases,
7 unqualified.
8 A security guard is a security
9 guard regardless of where he is employed, be it
10 inhouse or on a for-hire basis; and there should
11 be equal treatment on how they are regulated. I
12 think it's intolerable to have a double standard
13 just because of who is employing them.
14 And security guards, many of
15 them, will be performing the exact same
16 functions irrespective of where or how they are
17 employed, and I believe they require universal
18 training. They should have the same training,
19 regardless of whether they are inhouse or for
20 hire.
21 Very often, an untrained guard
22 will exacerbate a very volatile situation and
23 actually cause additional injury -
5402
1 unintentionally, but because they simply were
2 inappropriately trained or not trained at all.
3 If proprietary guards are
4 exempted from the act, they will additionally
5 not be subject to background checks which is
6 required by the Mega law, and the background
7 checks are absolutely essential to insure that
8 disreputable individuals are not unintentionally
9 employed to become security guards, and not
10 requiring background checks allows those with
11 potentially violent criminal histories to apply
12 and become hired for these positions, and this
13 is the very situation that the Mega bill was
14 intended to cure.
15 So, I'm not as eloquent as
16 Senator Mega, but I would like to appeal to not
17 emasculating his bill, because it was a wise
18 bill. And if there are problems, I believe
19 there are problems and I believe there are other
20 ways to correct the problem.
21 Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
23 Kuhl.
5403
1 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, will the
2 sponsor of the amendment yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will
4 you yield?
5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Certainly
6 Senator.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Senator
8 Oppenheimer, I think there probably are a lot of
9 people in the chamber here who really have not
10 been as intimately involved in this particular
11 piece of legislation, and particularly the law
12 that currently exists.
13 So I think it would probably be
14 best, and I would like to ask you several
15 questions about what your amendment does, so
16 that they can see the contrast between what the
17 law proposed -- or the bill proposed is as
18 opposed to what your amendment does.
19 Now, as I understand it, your
20 amendment, which is the Dugan bill, it would
21 change the current law by exempting, quote/
22 unquote, security guard companies who have less
23 than five employees from having to register with
5404
1 the state.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is
3 correct.
4 SENATOR KUHL: If I may continue,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Is it true that
8 under your proposed amendment that people who
9 monitor traffic at a county fair would still
10 have to register for six days? Once a year,
11 would still have to register as a security
12 guard?
13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
14 Department of State is the body responsible for
15 who and who is not a security guard. So I think
16 they are the entity that would be addressing
17 that.
18 SENATOR KUHL: Well, it's my
19 understanding, Senator, under the current law,
20 the employer has to make the interpretation as
21 to who provides the security guard service and
22 who does not. But the enforcement of whether or
23 not their determination is correct is with the
5405
1 Secretary of State's Office. Is that correct?
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, it's
3 really for enforcement purposes that the
4 Department of State makes that determination.
5 SENATOR KUHL: So I guess from
6 what you are saying is that your amendment does
7 not change the requirement that's perceived
8 under the law now that a person who provides a
9 security guard traffic monitoring situation, as
10 it's interpreted under the law, would still have
11 to register as a security guard?
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is
13 correct.
14 SENATOR KUHL: Okay. That was
15 one of our concerns.
16 Does your amendment do anything
17 to alter the situation where a person who is a
18 ski patrol person having to register as a
19 security guard?
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
21 amendment doesn't alter the definition or
22 determination.
23 SENATOR KUHL: And your amendment
5406
1 does not change, does it, the requirement that
2 students who provide a resident advisor type of
3 service to a university in fact has to or will
4 have to register as a security guard, does it?
5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If special
6 limited use exceptions are needed, we can
7 address them, but it's not necessary to repeal
8 the Mega bill to do that.
9 SENATOR KUHL: So again, Mr.
10 President, if I may.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
12 Oppenheimer, would you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes,
14 indeed.
15 SENATOR KUHL: Senator
16 Oppenheimer, just so -- again, so that my
17 colleagues understand that all of these
18 situations that I addressed in my explanation of
19 what the law was, it appears to me that your
20 amendment does not directly address except for
21 the registration of that, quote/unquote,
22 security guard company who has less than five
23 employees will not have to register with the
5407
1 state. Is that correct?
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That's one
3 aspect of the amendment. And, additionally, it
4 would require inhouse guards to be trained and
5 registered.
6 SENATOR KUHL: Does your -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
8 Kuhl.
9 SENATOR KUHL: If I may again,
10 Mr. President. Does your amendment do anything
11 to change the training requirements that are
12 required, say, prior to hiring of any of these
13 individuals?
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would you
15 repeat the question because I didn't hear it?
16 SENATOR KUHL: I'm curious as to
17 whether or not your amendment does anything to
18 change the requirements for training prior to
19 employment?
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
21 Department of State is permitted to waive
22 training requirements if the training provided
23 at the company exceeds or meets their standards
5408
1 or exceeds their standards.
2 SENATOR KUHL: So your amendment
3 changes the requirement of the Mega law, as I
4 understand it, to give the Department of the
5 State permission to waive training requirements
6 under certain circumstances. Is that correct?
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
8 Department of State can under this amendment
9 waive the requirement. A lot of companies felt
10 that they had job-specific training; and in this
11 amendment, the Department of State may waive for
12 those specific cases.
13 SENATOR KUHL: Now, there -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Kuhl.
16 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, thank you,
17 Mr. President. As you understand the law,
18 Senator Oppenheimer, you do understand that
19 there is a preemployment kind of training
20 program and then there is a commitment under the
21 law for annual training?
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes.
23 SENATOR KUHL: Now, would a
5409
1 person who has gotten -- or is in need of a
2 waiver, who believes they have the right, they
3 already provide the necessary training, is there
4 a need for them or is there a provision in your
5 bill that would allow for a one-time
6 application; or are they going to have to go
7 back each time and ask for a waiver each time a
8 requirement is there that they have to comply
9 with?
10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
11 Department of State has that flexibility. The
12 language is not specific. Much relies on what
13 the Department of State determines.
14 SENATOR KUHL: Just out of
15 curiosity, does your amendment have any
16 appropriation for money in it that would allow
17 the Department of State to handle this influx of
18 applications for waivers?
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There -
20 SENATOR KUHL: It's a question we
21 always seem to get on this side of the aisle,
22 and I'm just curious.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There are
5410
1 no appropriations, but this house on many
2 occasions has passed bills that -- does the
3 original bill have money appropriated to fulfill
4 the specific requirements of the rules and
5 regulations that you want to put in?
6 I mean there isn't money
7 appropriated in my amendment, no. Is there
8 money appropriated -
9 May I ask a question?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
11 Oppenheimer, you have the floor.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Will you
13 yield, Senator Kuhl?
14 SENATOR KUHL: I will be happy to
15 yield.
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Is their
17 money appropriated in your bill to handle the
18 requirements of your bill.
19 SENATOR KUHL: Well, there's no
20 additional requirements, Senator Oppenheimer, so
21 there is no need for any money.
22 What our bill is is actually a
23 tax saver. It's actually a mandate reduction.
5411
1 It eliminates the need for businesses, for
2 not-for-profits, and for governmental entities.
3 As a matter of fact, in one of
4 the testimonies that we have received at the
5 hearing from people at the Department of Parks
6 and Recreation, they said in their own language,
7 and I'm quoting it verbatim, but they said this
8 was absolutely an abuse of taxpayer spending.
9 Absolute abuse. And it was ridiculous. It was
10 uncalled for.
11 And in a conversation that I had
12 with a member of the Governor's Employee
13 Relations Department, he admitted that he didn't
14 know how this bill ever got by him and how it
15 was ever signed into law without his objection.
16 They recognized within the administration,
17 within the second floor, that in fact this bill
18 is a waste of taxpayer dollars.
19 It's far from being a bill that
20 needs an appropriation. It's a bill that
21 actually saves people in this state money. As I
22 said, not only through taxpayer collection in
23 actual state expenditures, this goes down to
5412
1 every not-for-profit operation, every state
2 university, every private university. It allows
3 for the continuation of scholarships, so it's -
4 and in businesses, they are facing what we would
5 perceive as being a duplication of requirements
6 in training, so it's an additional cost to them
7 that's going to be passed onto the consumer.
8 It doesn't appear to me that
9 there is any cost involved with the adoption of
10 our bill. It's just the reverse. There is a
11 significant saving to the people of the State of
12 New York. As I indicated to you, I think it's
13 upwards of hundreds of millions of dollars.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Oppenheimer.
16 SENATOR KUHL: I will continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: She has
19 the floor.
20 SENATOR KUHL: I know. I
21 anticipated a question, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Okay.
23 Go ahead.
5413
1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The fact is
2 that the Dugan bill and your bill both are
3 trying to address a problem, and the problem as
4 I see it is that you are exempting just about
5 every class in your bill, and that was not the
6 intent of the original law. There are certain
7 areas. There are certainly onerous regulations
8 which would need to be changed, but to throw out
9 these regulations by exempting an entire class
10 of security guards is really the problem here.
11 And I would like to ask the
12 question. We have to solve the problem in
13 another way, the differences between the two
14 bills. The Dugan bill has already passed in the
15 Assembly, and the Dugan bill gives the
16 Department of State the flexibility to
17 accommodate the needs of proprietary companies.
18 Is there an area within that
19 where you could see your way to sitting down and
20 coming to an agreement?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Kuhl.
23 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, I have
5414
1 never had a problem with discussing the merits
2 of any bill. At this point, the Assembly
3 sponsor has refused to offer any kind of
4 recognition of the problems that we have been
5 facing, the problems with the not-for-profit
6 agencies, the problems of duplication of
7 training for the police officers, the problems
8 of the ski patrol licensing, those problems that
9 are going to cause considerable financial
10 reserves to be utilized by agencies out there.
11 We have had no contact. As a
12 matter of fact, total resistance from them. We
13 have a very able sponsor, and I understand that
14 this matter is being taken at higher levels and
15 being discussed over there about the possible
16 adoption of this bill.
17 One of the problems that I think
18 our colleagues should understand is that -- you
19 know, it's interesting that this bill is coming
20 down the way it is and that the law is coming
21 down the way it is. And what you are saying and
22 you suggested under your amendment -- and this
23 is where I wish to try to straighten things out
5415
1 and try to correct you -- is that you indicated
2 that what our bill does is do away with
3 regulations.
4 Well, that would be perceived by
5 most people here because of what they have dealt
6 with in the past, their experiences, that in
7 fact the regulations that have been promulgated
8 by the Department of State in fact are onerous.
9 That's absolutely untrue. That's 180 degrees
10 around.
11 The law is what created the
12 problem. The definition is so all-encompassing
13 that that is what has caused the problem with
14 the volunteer organizations and all the other
15 organizations that I've mentioned.
16 What is different about this
17 situation is that the Secretary of State's
18 office has promulgated regulations that ease the
19 impact of that law and are bending over
20 backwards to try to lessen the impact because
21 they see what is happening, but they are
22 constrained because of the definition of the
23 law, and that was what's so totally different.
5416
1 Usually, we find that there's an
2 agency who becomes overburdensome in their
3 regulations and distorts the actual intent of
4 the law, okay, and what the actual law does.
5 That's not the case here. They're working to
6 work this out.
7 As a matter of fact, with regard
8 to say, for instance, the problem that's created
9 in the universities, they have now said that in
10 fact when you to go define whether or not a
11 person uses 51 percent of their time in a
12 security guard operation, that students can now
13 utilize all the time they spend in class as an
14 offset to determine what the bottom denominator
15 of hours are that they are putting into the
16 university. Certainly, they are not employed to
17 go to class, yet Department of State said now we
18 can add that on so that we don't just take the
19 time that they're in their dorm and that they're
20 monitoring the traffic of the kids who are in
21 there who are going to school, which is what
22 they get paid for. We can now add that time.
23 So that is a regulation that they are going to
5417
1 actually soften the impact, and that's what you
2 have to understand.
3 So your question, as I said, you
4 know, this is not a question of changing rules
5 and regulations. They have been most helpful.
6 The Department of State has been most helpful
7 because they softened the impact of the law.
8 But we have had no input from the
9 Assembly sponsor, no contact from the Assembly
10 sponsor. As a matter of fact, there's been
11 total resistance.
12 It's been somewhat disheartening
13 that when these people have come to us -- you
14 know, it's interesting, and this is another
15 point I want to raise, because I think people
16 like Senator Galiber should understand this. We
17 got a call that there was -- as you probably
18 remember. There was a TV commentary by one of
19 our public service stations on this issue. As a
20 result of that publication in the City of New
21 York, I got a call from a person from the Bronx,
22 and the person from the Bronx said to me, "You
23 know, that law as adopted by Senator Mega and
5418
1 Assemblywoman Dugan is the most frustrating
2 thing to me because it's essentially eliminated
3 an opportunity of employment for me," and
4 explained to me that what was happening because
5 of the licensing requirement now, under certain
6 circumstances, that these people who didn't have
7 the wherewithal, the resources, were being
8 required to up-front the money for the
9 licensing, so it was excluding them. Now, that
10 wouldn't make any difference as to whether they
11 went to work for a hospital, a not-for-profit
12 agency or anybody else.
13 And that's the reason why we are
14 here, is because there needs to be an addressing
15 of that, but we're not getting any recognition
16 from the Assembly that there needs to be any
17 change. As a matter of fact, I think on that
18 very show, the Assemblywoman said, Well, that's
19 the way I understood the bill to be, the law to
20 be, anyway.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
22 Oppenheimer.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the
5419
1 problems, if you would yield for another
2 question.
3 SENATOR KUHL: I yield, Senator
4 Farley.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: She's
6 got the floor.
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the
8 problems is that your law is so broad.
9 SENATOR KUHL: I didn't -
10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the
11 problems is that your law is so broad that it
12 exempts the -- you were talking about campus
13 security, and that was an issue that came up
14 over and over again in the hearings that I had a
15 couple of years ago, that the campus security
16 guards were untrained, unchecked. Really, in
17 many instances, they had no idea of what their
18 backgrounds were, and the opportunity to get
19 that information was not available to the
20 campuses, to the administration of the
21 colleges. Your bill would also exempt, as I
22 understand it, the full-time security guard on
23 college campuses.
5420
1 SENATOR KUHL: That's true.
2 That's true. Our bill exempts not-for-profits,
3 governmental entities and proprietaries, all of
4 whom have an ultimate responsibility to the
5 people that they serve from a liability
6 standpoint. You know that, and I know that. If
7 there is some disservice, something done, there
8 is always the judicial system, the art of
9 litigation to be able to overcome that, and that
10 we are not trying to impose and never has been
11 imposed.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you
13 would yield? Are you suggesting that because
14 there is always the avenue of the courts that
15 there should not be training?
16 SENATOR KUHL: No, not at all.
17 As a matter of fact, if you review the testimony
18 that we have, you would see that most of these
19 institutions, everyone of those who supports
20 this bill, provides training that is probably in
21 excess of what is required under the current
22 law, but yet the current law would require
23 duplication of that training at an additional
5421
1 expense, and that's partially the problem.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5 Oppenheimer.
6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think on
7 the bill. Thank you, Senator.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
9 amendment, I think you want.
10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Excuse me.
11 On the amendment. It is not that there doesn't
12 need to be attention brought to this issue, and
13 we need a resolution, and the resolution lies
14 somewhere perhaps between the Dugan bill and the
15 Kuhl bill.
16 It's my feeling that the
17 regulations are onerous, and that the fees may
18 be onerous, and that that should be handled by
19 our oversight of the agency. I think it is
20 essential to have registration and training of
21 all security guards, irrespective of who their
22 employer is. We want to have confidence in
23 security guards. They wear uniforms. We have
5422
1 to make certain assumptions that we can rely on
2 their training and we can rely on them being
3 people of good character who have not been in
4 our criminal justice system.
5 And so I would move my amendment,
6 saying that changes must be made to the law but
7 that to simply obliterate a law by exempting
8 almost everybody is not the way to go, and that
9 changes should be made and my amendment makes
10 them.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Before
13 I move the amendment, Senator Dollinger, did you
14 want to speak on the amendment? And then
15 Senator Gonzalez.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
17 President. I have a question and I would ask it
18 of the sponsor of the amendment and the sponsor
19 of the original bill just so I make sure I know
20 what the current law says.
21 As I understand it, the current
22 law requires fingerprinting, background checks,
23 et cetera, for security guards who fall within
5423
1 the definition of the act; and my understanding
2 further is that the amendment proposed by
3 Senator Oppenheimer would retain that
4 provision. The bill proposed by Senator Kuhl
5 would relinquish that provision for inhouse
6 security guards.
7 My question is, can a college,
8 proprietary home, who employs an inhouse staff,
9 under current law, can they choose to do it if
10 they want to? In other words, if I'm a college
11 and I say, okay, the amendment doesn't pass, but
12 the bill passes exempting them, do colleges
13 still have the ability to go out and do it
14 independently if they decide that it's the right
15 thing to do?
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is
17 what brought the issue to my attention
18 originally, Senator. It was about four years
19 ago and a couple of my colleges in my district
20 were unable to get that information from
21 Criminal Justice Services. It was not available
22 to them, and there was no way they could check
23 on the people that they wanted to hire.
5424
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So my
2 understanding is, is there agreement by both the
3 sponsor of the amendment and the sponsor of the
4 bill that if -- under current law, there's
5 nothing that permits the inhouse employer to get
6 access to the background checks unless we attach
7 the amendment to this bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
9 Dollinger, who are you asking that question of?
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess
11 that's probably best directed at Senator Kuhl,
12 but I just want to get an agreement as to what
13 the current bill -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We're
15 on the amendment, of course.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand,
17 but -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
19 Kuhl, did you wish to answer his question?
20 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Senator
21 Dollinger, your understanding is currently the
22 law. I think as Senator Oppenheimer has said
23 there is no availability for access to the
5425
1 fingerprinting system, either the FBI check
2 which is required under this law or the check
3 through DCJS at this time.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5 Dollinger, do you yield to Senator Oppenheimer?
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I do,
7 Mr. President.
8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The current
9 law is the Mega bill.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. So
11 under current law, they are required to do it
12 because the Security Guard Act requires them to
13 do it, if they fall within the definition of
14 security guard under the act. If you remove
15 that provision for inhouse people, as I
16 understand Senator Kuhl's bill will do, then
17 they wouldn't have the ability to access that
18 data independently. That's correct. Okay.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Gonzalez.
21 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you, Mr.
22 President. I think that what I would like to do
23 is bring about a little bit of history to this
5426
1 Security Guard Act bill that was passed by
2 Senator Mega which I worked with him on this
3 particular bill.
4 He had this particular bill on
5 for about seven years before I came into the
6 Senate in '89, and it was to revamp, it was to
7 put a higher grade on the security guards that
8 was going throughout the state on a rampage of
9 criminals and people with records on being
10 security guard.
11 I happen to be currently right
12 now for the last fifteen years a licensee as a
13 watchguard patrol agency, although I have my
14 license hung up on the wall so I'm not acting
15 as -- but as far as being 20 years in the
16 security business, I was very helpful to Senator
17 Mega in the language of what is there now.
18 And I also want my colleagues to
19 remember that in back in '89, '90, or so, there
20 was a strike at the Daily News, where -- the
21 Daily News being a proprietor, so-called, in
22 their conflict with labor. They hired people
23 that were unscrupulous, and they called them the
5427
1 "Goon Squad Ninjas," and they would go in -- in
2 the rage, and they would -- the people that were
3 picketing were getting into physical assaults.
4 And so that also this bill that
5 everybody seems to think it should to go to
6 security guard agencies is not a fact. I mean
7 it shouldn't be a fact. Anyone who perpetuates
8 them in any kind of security manner, whether
9 they are protecting people or property, they are
10 meeting the public's interest and they should be
11 checked and they should be fingerprinted, and
12 they should be in the higher standards than
13 everyone not only security guard agencies. It
14 is anyone that is in doing security to protect
15 anything in the State of New York, and the
16 intent of the Security Guard Act was that.
17 Now, in this particular bill and
18 the one that is in the Assembly, it turns out
19 that if we can't get together that maybe -
20 maybe -- some little small things could be an
21 exempt, that that could be worked out so that it
22 could be a two-house bill, but they are very
23 limited, not to the broad extent as this bill is
5428
1 being brought upon because people are
2 complaining.
3 Of course everybody is going to
4 complain. They are going to complain because it
5 makes it a little harder, but at the same time
6 the public interest is being protected; that
7 people with not records, that people that are -
8 just do that as mercenaries, they call them, the
9 goons or whatever, do not get into -- whether
10 it's a county fair or whether it's some sort of
11 activity; and that not-for-profits don't know,
12 so they will take a person, anyone and put them
13 as a guard, and that person could have a record
14 and would be physically assaultive. And then
15 the only protection that is available is
16 insurance, but it's already after the fact.
17 So I think that as far as the
18 amendment. But I think that the both sides
19 should come together, and I relayed it to them
20 that I would be willing to give my expertise
21 into that area so that maybe some of the small
22 that can be exempted could be exempted. But in
23 the general sense, this was the protection of
5429
1 what it was meant to be, and that was what
2 Senator Mega with a localities of the other
3 Senators that were here, the intent is there,
4 and that was the particular intent.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
7 Cook on them amendment.
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I
9 was not involved in the passage of this original
10 legislation, but, obviously, there were a lot of
11 dinner conversations where I heard some
12 reference made to it, and I know how long
13 Senator Mega and Senator Gonzalez and others
14 worked on the legislation; and, indeed, it was
15 very important and very necessary legislation.
16 But like everything else that we
17 do here, we often find that there are problems
18 that arise afterward, and I have received many
19 communications from people which I have sent on
20 to Senator Kuhl and simply because I knew he was
21 working with this issue, and I compliment him on
22 the way that he has responded to it in this
23 legislation.
5430
1 Just couple of the examples of
2 people who contacted me were nursing homes, for
3 example, where the nurses or the receptionists
4 who sit at the desk where people come and go and
5 they are there to check on who is coming into
6 the nursing home for the security of the
7 patients, if you will, and also to insure that
8 somebody does not walk out, some patient does
9 not walk out and endanger themselves, find
10 themselves now classified as security guards.
11 Now, that clearly was not ever the intent of
12 what this law was.
13 We find that at the county fair,
14 again, somebody who is hired to stay in the
15 cattle tent overnight to watch, to make sure
16 that nothing happens to one of the animals that
17 gets loose and gores one of the other cows and
18 does something, they are a security guard under
19 this current law.
20 And these are the kinds of
21 problems that have arisen. So it's a good law.
22 I think for the reasons that it was put in place
23 in the first instance, it has served its purpose
5431
1 well. But, clearly, it has created for a lot of
2 other people a great deal of difficulty, and not
3 just financial difficulty but the real reality
4 of how are you going to get a nurse to go and
5 train to be a security officer? Or how are you
6 going get somebody, probably a young farm youth,
7 who is watching the cows to go and get a
8 security guard license? Those things just don't
9 work.
10 And I think that's what Senator
11 Kuhl's bill addresses. Unfortunately, I don't
12 think the limiting to go five, which is
13 apparently all the Assembly bill does, isn't
14 going to address those problems.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
16 amendment. You have moved the amendment,
17 Senator Oppenheimer?
18 On the amendment, all those in
19 favor, aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 Those opposed, nay.
22 (Response of "Nay.")
23 The nays have it. The amendment
5432
1 is not accepted.
2 On the bill. Read the last
3 section.
4 Senator Galiber on the bill.
5 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President,
6 on the bill. I voted in favor of the
7 amendment.
8 But, Senator, I believe what
9 happened here, is what often happens between
10 upstate and downstate. There is a different
11 perspective altogether.
12 You mentioned that young man or
13 young person or old person who called from Bronx
14 County who was concerned about the rules and
15 regulations as far as your piece of legislation
16 or the piece of legislation that was passed by
17 Senator Mega.
18 But Senator Gonzalez -- and I
19 didn't know it was 20 years. Time is really
20 running out on some of us, just passing for
21 others.
22 The fact of the matter is that
23 the condition in Bronx County and in our urban
5433
1 centers is quite different than someone coming
2 to the fair for six days to watch the cows. In
3 the City of New York, the cows were under the
4 tent, they would be there to steal the cows not
5 to watch them.
6 And that's the real big
7 significance, Senator, that we have situations
8 in our counties that security agencies are
9 impacted because they are paying low wages; and
10 as a result of that, they bring in just about
11 everybody you can possibly buy.
12 I happen to live next door to a
13 place where an incident occurred just two years
14 ago. And I know when we debate these bills, we
15 make them sound good whether they are cow
16 watchers or whether it's the local fair for six
17 days or whether it's the campus person who is
18 doubling for a security person. The fact of the
19 matter is that security is so very important and
20 it calls out, if you will, crys out for the
21 kinds of thing that the sponsor, Senator
22 Oppenheimer, has suggested; that there needs be
23 a meeting of the minds on this issue because we
5434
1 shouldn't be that far apart with a few
2 adjustments.
3 But to suggest that in the City
4 of New York where persons are not paid adequate
5 wage for security that they are pushed in under
6 no security, no screening, no check at all -
7 the incident -- I ran off on a tangent. This
8 particular security guard was paid the minimum.
9 Twenty years -- Senator Gonzalez, how -- it was
10 three dollars and some-odd cents some years
11 ago. In comparison, they are paying those
12 security guards about the equivalent now.
13 A lot of the persons who are
14 coming out of our penal institutions, no check
15 -- they've got fingerprints, but they were
16 taken at another time in history when they went
17 into the institution -- are being hired. In one
18 instance I made reference to, a young man
19 said -- got into the argument over nothing. A
20 question of going from one side of the street to
21 the other. The fellow said I'm going to go home
22 and get my gun and going to come back and I'm
23 going to shoot you. And he went home. Got the
5435
1 gun, came back and killed this young man.
2 Now that's a story just like the
3 cows and the others that I mentioned before, but
4 the fact of the matter, Senator, we live in a
5 different world in another part of the state.
6 It's a different world. We're all concerned
7 about security whether it's nonprofit or no.
8 The papers I received, your memo,
9 how many pages was it, Senator? About 30 or 40
10 pages to it? It was a lot of pages to be
11 authorized or to fill out, if you will, for
12 security purposes. We pay our income tax on a
13 short form. We can work out something, do the
14 same thing as far as security checks are
15 concerned on a shorter form.
16 But the legislation that Senator
17 Mega worked on had the true intent. Like many
18 pieces of legislation, after we've watched it
19 for a while, we need to make some amendments.
20 But the adjustments, Senator, that you choose to
21 put in your piece of legislation really defeats
22 the spirit of what that security bill was really
23 all about. You have exempted in your part of
5436
1 town persons who are impacted in our part of
2 town which will do violence. It's not the six
3 day fair that you make reference to.
4 So I would only hope in voting
5 against this piece of legislation as an
6 indication, a protest, really, that there should
7 be a meeting of the minds, and consistent with
8 my vote for the amendment, that we're hurting in
9 the City of New York, and we need the security
10 checks and we need the caution, not only from an
11 economic standpoint but for the safety of those
12 persons that collectively we're concerned with,
13 and that's the public at large.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the
16 bill. Senator Oppenheimer and then Senator
17 Dollinger.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I'll
19 be voting against this amendment to Senator
20 Mega's bill, which I felt really solved real
21 problems. Now, other problems have come along
22 and I think they need resolution, too, but I
23 think to eviscerate the Mega bill is certainly
5437
1 not the way to go, by saying that only security
2 guard companies should be able to do the
3 background checks and only they are required to
4 have training and to be registered. I think
5 we're just throwing away the whole intent of the
6 original bill which I think was an important
7 bill.
8 Now, there are problems that have
9 come along that need resolution. Certainly the
10 packet of forms that had to be filled out by the
11 person applying for registration, licensing is
12 certainly onerous, and that has to be changed,
13 and the fee structure probably can be amended.
14 But to throw out the whole intent of the bill
15 and say this just applies to security guard
16 companies and not to all the other proprietary
17 companies that employ security guards is simply
18 not -- was not the intention of the bill. And
19 the bill originally was a good one. Let's
20 correct the original bill.
21 I vote no on this.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
23 Dollinger.
5438
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President. I rise on this bill because I think
3 one of the issues that's been talked about here
4 is the issue of expectations of security guards,
5 and I think the point at least in my part of the
6 village in the New York that I represent, the
7 point that was made by Senator Cook and by
8 Senator Kuhl I think is appropriate; and that
9 is, what do you expect when you see someone who
10 has got that little yellow T-shirt on that says
11 security?
12 I've been to parties on the beach
13 at Charlotte, where there's always a security
14 officer. I don't expect him to be trained. I
15 expect that he's someone being paid $5 an hour
16 to walk around with a T-shirt on and to tell
17 people that they shouldn't litter and do other
18 things.
19 I think the same thing may be
20 true for the occasional college security man at
21 Syracuse when I've gone to the Dome for games.
22 They wear a college security T-shirt or a
23 jacket. I don't expect them to be fingerprinted
5439
1 and background checked and act as the police. I
2 expect to them to be college kids who are there
3 to try to figure out whether something's going
4 wrong, talk into their walkie-talkies, bring in
5 the campus police.
6 It seems to me, and I'm going to
7 vote in favor of this bill, that this goes in
8 the right direction. And I have only one
9 quibble, I guess, with Senator Kuhl and it's a
10 minor one.
11 To suggest that we're in the
12 business of mandate relief, when what we did is
13 we created the problem by passing the bill in
14 the first place, is just a slight difficulty for
15 me. I think we're moving in the right
16 direction, moving back from having imposed a
17 mandate which was far too broad in the first
18 place, and I do concur with Senator Kuhl that
19 it's unusual.
20 The debates we had last week
21 focused on an agency that we had given broad
22 powers too, and they were galloping out of
23 control in the view of some of my colleagues,
5440
1 and there were those of us who felt that if we
2 wanted to bring that galloping out of control
3 back under control, the way to do it was to
4 change the enabling act and go back and shrink
5 the powers that we gave to the Department
6 Environmental Conservation.
7 Here we have almost the ironic
8 flip side of that, where we gave them broad
9 powers and they said to us, "We don't think we
10 want to exercise these broad powers." What I
11 see happening here are the checks and balances
12 that we talked about in that debate, that we
13 still have the power to control it.
14 I see this bill as taking an
15 administrative response, which we think is well
16 guided and conforming legislation to reflect the
17 day-to-day reality. The law was too broad in
18 its original inception, too all-encompassing.
19 It did capture the guy who was watching the cows
20 in the county fair, and we've gone too far.
21 So I'm going to support the
22 bill. I think the lesson in this bill is
23 perhaps when we enact these very broad statutes,
5441
1 we ought to try to imagine the specific problems
2 that are going to arise; and if we realize that
3 it's far too broad, let's shrink the original
4 legislative grant back to a manageable and
5 realistic proportion.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
7 Kuhl on this bill.
8 SENATOR KUHL: I don't want to
9 extend the debate, but just to cover a couple of
10 quick points. One that Senator Galiber raised;
11 and that was, he felt this was an upstate/down
12 state battle. I would just, Senator Galiber,
13 point out to you that I don't perceive it that
14 way. Certainly there are unique problems in the
15 City of New York and certainly downstate that
16 are not there in upstate New York.
17 But I think the list of people
18 who support this bill indicates that there is
19 statewide support and there is no line,
20 geographical line, that would distinct the
21 support or nonsupport. For instance, the
22 Greater New York Chamber of Commerce supports
23 this bill, the Greater New York Hospital
5442
1 Association, the New York Clearing House, the
2 National Association of Feeder Operators, the
3 Check Cashiers Association of New York, the
4 Brooklyn Union Gas Company, the Business
5 Council, the American Federation of State,
6 County and Municipal Employees in New York
7 State, the Retail Council, the Association of
8 Counties. Those are all statewide associations
9 which have a very heavy municipal downstate
10 presence on them.
11 And also the point that -- I
12 think more importantly than that, the other
13 point that I wanted to touch on, which is one
14 that Senator Oppenheimer raised and certainly
15 Senator Gonzalez did, and you would have no
16 reason to know the feeling in some of the
17 security guard industry people. Certainly there
18 are the private security guards who feel very
19 favorable toward this bill because they see it
20 as an employment opportunity. One of the people
21 who testified at the hearing said that after the
22 passage of the initial Mega/Dugan bill, other
23 than MCI, his most often caller was a security
5443
1 guard company. They looked at it as a security
2 guard employment bill.
3 Now let me tell you what the
4 Capital Police, the chief of police of the New
5 York State Capital Police and chief
6 administrator said at our hearing, and I quote,
7 and it's a very short two paragraphs. He says,
8 "While I feel there is a need for some mandates
9 for training and background checks for security
10 guards, I don't believe the Security Guard Act
11 of 1992 is based on solid knowledge of what is
12 going on in the security field. I believe the
13 act was a knee-jerk reaction to some problems
14 resulting from private sector security
15 companies, and security company's failure to
16 properly screen and train employees. I find
17 that most public sector and many private sector
18 proprietary security agencies properly screen
19 applicants as well as providing basic and
20 inservice training which far exceeds the
21 mandates of the act. The Office of General
22 Services Securities Services is an example of a
23 New York public sector security agency that
5444
1 should be exempted from the act. The mandated
2 background investigation and licensing fee of
3 $110 per security officer, which includes
4 security guard officers already employed is a
5 waste of $11,000 in taxpayer dollars. No
6 consideration is given to the fact that all OGS
7 security officers personnel were fingerprinted
8 and a complete background investigation
9 conducted at the time that they were hired," and
10 then he goes on to talk about the actual
11 training requirements which again are also
12 requirements that are duplications.
13 So I think that this bill has a
14 very, very sound basis for its adoption, and
15 that as many people have said, Senator
16 Dollinger, Senator Cook, that perhaps we were
17 not as diligent as we should have been with
18 regard to the adoption of the initial bill in
19 1992, but that this bill will really set
20 security guard licensing and restrictions the
21 way in should be done in New York.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
5445
1 the last section.
2 SENATOR GALIBER: I can wait. I
3 can wait. Just have my name called.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
12 Galiber to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Senator
14 Kuhl, I didn't want the records to reflect that
15 I thought we were at odds with each other
16 upstate/downstate.
17 I wouldn't want you to miss this.
18 I didn't want you to think that
19 we have an upstate/downstate war as you had
20 suggested. That is not what I was saying.
21 What I was saying, Mr. President,
22 was that we have different circumstances in the
23 City of New York, and the list of people that
5446
1 you read off or entities that you read off in
2 support, interesting enough, they are
3 corporations. They are business people. It's
4 like prisons upstate is the economic development
5 plan for upstate. These folks have an interest
6 because they are in business, and they are not
7 interested in taking care of where the real
8 impact is in the city, and that's the people of
9 the City of New York.
10 So it's not an upstate/down
11 state. It's a question of different
12 circumstances, and this is why we had suggested
13 or I had suggested this getting together,
14 because there's no war. There is just a
15 difference of circumstances, and people are
16 being impacted on, and this is why I made my
17 comments in support of the amendment. But it's
18 definitely not a war just different
19 circumstances, Senator.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do
21 you vote?
22 SENATOR GALIBER: No.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
5447
1 Gonzalez.
2 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes, Mr.
3 President. I just want to explain my vote.
4 Senator Kuhl mentioned the
5 various people that are in favor of the
6 particular bill, but, however, the proprietaries
7 -- this is the -- the Security Guard Act was
8 the first time that the proprietaries are being
9 regulated, so, of course, they are very
10 apprehensive about the security and that they do
11 the things right. But whoever does it wrong,
12 pays for the whole state sort of any
13 unscrupulous persons.
14 So I'm voting in the negative on
15 this bill, but I think that we can get together
16 with both houses and work it out, as those point
17 that I said earlier.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Dollinger to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President. I'm going to vote in the affirmative
23 on this bill. I would simply hope that the
5448
1 sponsor might raise at least one issue in the
2 discussions about this with the Assembly if this
3 bill gets negotiated; and that is, to give the
4 various employers of the security guards the
5 ability to do the security checks themselves, to
6 do the fingerprinting, to do the background
7 checks.
8 If we instead of mandating them
9 to do it, empower them to do it, they can make
10 all these decisions on their own. I think
11 that's a better way to go. They can then raise
12 the level of their own security. Colleges can
13 advertise that these are fingerprinted and
14 background checked security guards, that they
15 are not just students who are walking around
16 with T-shirts on. I would rather do it from the
17 point of view of empowering them rather than
18 mandating that they do it.
19 But I'm going to vote in favor of
20 this. My hope is we'll get to that point, which
21 I think is the right place to be.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
23 Dollinger is in the affirmative.
5449
1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
2 the negative on Calendar Number 1267 are
3 Senators DiCarlo, Espada, Galiber, Gonzalez and
4 Oppenheimer. Ayes 50. Nays 5.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
6 bill is passed.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
9 Gold.
10 SENATOR GOLD: With my thanks to
11 Senator Present and Senator Stafford for their
12 cooperation, I understand that 1266 has now been
13 returned to the house. I ask that the vote be
14 reconsidered upon which it passed today.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
16 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
17 (The Secretary called the roll on
18 reconsideration.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
21 bill is before the house.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
23 President. Again with the consent of Senator
5450
1 Stafford, may we lay this aside for the day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
3 bill aside for the day.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up
6 Calendar 907.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 907.
8 Secretary will read it.
9 THE SECRETARY: On page 21,
10 Calendar Number 907, by Senator Levy, Senate
11 Bill Number 1113, an act to amend the Vehicle
12 and Traffic Law, in relation to requiring
13 suspension and revocation of a driver's license
14 after administration of a compulsory chemical
15 test.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. Nays
5451
1 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
6 Can we call up Calendar 1186.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1186.
8 The Secretary will read it.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1186, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number
11 7975, an act to amend the Tax Law and the Social
12 Services Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call
18 the roll.
19 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
21 Withdraw the roll call. Senator Galiber?
22 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
5452
1 Explanation has been asked for.
2 Senator Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
4 This bill would require the director of the New
5 York State Division of Lottery to enter a
6 written agreement with the Commissioner of
7 Social Services and, basically, that if anyone
8 wins a lottery of a million dollars or more that
9 they would have to pay back public assistance
10 benefits that they have received during that
11 time.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator yield
13 one question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
15 Galiber.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, Senator
17 Galiber.
18 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator,
19 usually when we put legislation in the hopper
20 it's as the result of some abuse or some
21 incident that occurred. Could you tell me how
22 many people who have been recipients or are
23 recipients of welfare have hit the Lotto?
5453
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: We don't know.
2 SENATOR GALIBER: Do you believe
3 that any and all hit the Lotto?
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: We don't know.
5 SENATOR GALIBER: Did you
6 research this bill with you are cryptic yes or
7 noes?
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: As best as we
9 could, yes.
10 SENATOR GALIBER: Fine. Senator,
11 I was going to vote for your bill until I didn't
12 get any response. I get these cryptic yes or
13 noes, which I don't think is the proper way to
14 deal with the questions.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
16 I'd be happy to -
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
18 Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- Senator
20 Galiber -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Whoa,
22 whoa, whoa. Hold on here.
23 SENATOR GALIBER: Would you yield
5454
1 for another question.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would
3 you yield, Senator?
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely.
5 SENATOR GALIBER: In the course
6 of your looking into this, could you share with
7 us what the motivation was for your putting in
8 this piece of legislation?
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
10 I'd be happy to do that.
11 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: In the six years
13 that I have served in the Senate, I have town
14 meetings throughout my district and, quite
15 often, it has come up by frustrated taxpayers as
16 to different abuses and systems in government,
17 and often this one comes up. People have said
18 to me people who use public assistance monies to
19 purchase lottery tickets and if they win the
20 lottery, why aren't they required to pay back
21 some of that taxpayer money, and it's not just
22 one or two times that I have heard this in the
23 six years that I've had the pleasure of serving
5455
1 in the Senate, but I hear this quite frequently,
2 and we tried to come up, Senator Galiber, with a
3 fair assessment here, and I don't have
4 information as to the number of people, but I
5 can tell you that's why we picked the million
6 dollar level. We certainly wouldn't want to do
7 it on any $10 or $50 or $100. We wanted to try
8 to be fair and equitable, but it has been
9 something that my constituents have repeatedly
10 asked of me, and we researched it and put it in,
11 and we think that it's very responsive.
12 SENATOR GALIBER: On the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
14 Leichter. Senator Galiber has the floor. I
15 guess he yields to Senator Leichter?
16 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Okay.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
19 Libous, I was interested in hearing your
20 explanation. You said that people in your
21 district said that, while somebody is receiving
22 public assistance, if they take some of the
23 public assistance money and buy a lottery ticket
5456
1 and then they win a million dollars or more.
2 But as I read your bill, this would include
3 people who had been on public assistance for the
4 previous ten years, even though they were no
5 longer on public assistance.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: So it's not a
8 matter that they have taken money they have
9 received from the Department of Social Services,
10 but actually money that they may be gainfully
11 employed.
12 Let me ask you. Why didn't you
13 limit your bill then to those instances where
14 the people were still on public assistance.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
16 Libous.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
18 I think in responding to my constituents'
19 requests on the bill, they felt that the
20 assistance should be paid back, and that
21 ten-year period was a period that we thought was
22 a fair period to chose.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if
5457
1 you would be good enough to continue to yield?
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'll be happy
3 to, Senator.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
5 suppose somebody is on public assistance and
6 then they get off public assistance and whether
7 by good fortune or by stint of hard work, for
8 whatever reason, they now become wealthy. They
9 become millionaires. Would be nice if they
10 return the money, but at the present time there
11 is nothing under law that requires that they
12 return the money. Isn't that correct?
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: What's that?
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: There is
15 nothing that requires that if somebody, let's
16 say, makes more than a million dollars a year
17 who had been on social services?
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely not.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right.
20 Well, why didn't you cover that case, too? I
21 mean if you are going to make a general rule on
22 the obligation of people to return monies that
23 they received from social services when they
5458
1 suddenly found themselves in possession of a lot
2 of money, and it could be either by hard work -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 Present, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm not going
6 to finish the question because Senator Present
7 has risen.
8 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, sir.
9 Mr. President. It appears that
10 this may go into a longer discussion than I
11 would like to take place at this time, so I
12 would ask that this bill be laid aside with the
13 permission of the sponsor and take it up
14 tomorrow.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
16 Libous, do you wish to lay the bill aside?
17 SENATOR PRESENT: One fast
18 question, Senator Galiber? All right.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
20 Espada had a question, too.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: I see a number
22 of people would like to speak, so maybe we take
23 it up tomorrow. Lay the bill aside, please.
5459
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 Senator Present.
4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
5 I would like to announce an immediate meeting of
6 the Rules Committee in Room 332, and I would
7 like to ask the Senate stand at ease awaiting
8 the Rules Committee report, upon which that
9 receipt the Senate will adjourn until tomorrow
10 at 11:00 a.m.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
13 Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: On behalf of
15 Senator Mendez, I would like to remind the
16 Minority that there is going to be a conference
17 right now in the Minority Conference Room. Some
18 members who are on Rules will have to go to
19 Rules, but everybody should start heading right
20 over to the Minority Conference Room at this
21 point.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes.
23 Could we do a little housekeeping before we
5460
1 have -
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
4 Libous has motion.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
6 On behalf of Senator Seward, on page 39, I offer
7 the following amendments to Calendar Number 666,
8 Senate Print Number 7285, and ask that said bill
9 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
11 objection.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
13 President. I wish to call up Calendar Number
14 850, Assembly Print 11397.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
16 Secretary will read it.
17 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend
18 the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to the
19 reporting of crimes.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: I now move to
21 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill
22 was substituted for my bill, Senate Print Number
23 7034 on 5/25.
5461
1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The
7 bill is before the house.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
9 I now move that Assembly Bill Number 11397 be
10 recommitted to the Committee on Rules and my
11 Senate Bill restored to the order of Third
12 Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without
14 objection.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
16 I offer up the following amendments.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY:
18 Amendments received.
19 Any other motions on the floor?
20 (There was no response.)
21 There's an immediate meeting of
22 the Rules Committee in Room 332. There is an
23 immediate meeting of the Minority in a
5462
1 conference.
2 The Senate will stand at ease
3 waiting for the Rules report, and then we'll
4 adjourn until tomorrow at the regular hour.
5 (Whereupon, at 2:02 p.m., Senate
6 was at ease.)
7 (Whereupon, at 2:28 p.m., Senate
8 reconvened with Senator Marchi in the chair.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Senate
10 will come to order.
11 Senator Present.
12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
13 Could we return to motions for a moment?
14 In behalf of Senator Goodman, I
15 would like to please remove the sponsor star on
16 Calendar 780.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Without
18 objection.
19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
20 Can we return to report of standing committee.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI:
22 Secretary will read.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino
5463
1 from the Committee on Rules reports the
2 following bills directly for third reading:
3 Senate Bill Number 443, by
4 Senator Stafford, Environmental Conservation
5 Law.
6 1946C, by Senator Larkin, an act
7 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.
8 2456, by Senator Marchi,
9 Department of Environmental Conservation to
10 study the period of probable usefulness.
11 2813, by Senator Trunzo,
12 Retirement and Social Security Law.
13 3726A, by Senator Waldon, City of
14 New York to reconvey its interest in certain
15 real property.
16 4140A, by Senator Kuhl, providing
17 Thomas Cassidy credit for past service.
18 4303A, by Senator Connor, City of
19 New York to reconvey its interest in certain
20 real property.
21 4375C, by Senator Johnson, to
22 allow Paul D'Aversa to file a request for
23 retroactive service credit.
5464
1 4569B, by Senator Marino,
2 allowing Pauline Ogus to receive service credit
3 in the New York State teachers' retirement
4 system.
5 5096, by Senator Saland, an act
6 to amend the Tax Law.
7 5275D, by Senator Daly, an act to
8 amend the Public Health Law.
9 5384A, by Senator Spano,
10 Retirement and Social Security Law.
11 6306A, by Senator Holland, an act
12 to amend the Public Health Law.
13 6858, by Senator Trunzo, Chapter
14 787 of the Laws of 1934.
15 6897, by Senator Spano, State
16 Finance Law.
17 7214A, by Senator Cook, an act to
18 amend the General Municipal Law.
19 7231, by Senator Cook, General
20 City Law.
21 7330, by Senator Farley, an act
22 to amend the General Municipal Law.
23 7643A, by Senator Hannon, an act
5465
1 to amend the General Business Law.
2 7884, by Senator Daly,
3 legislative body of the county of Niagara.
4 7930, by Senator Hannon, Private
5 Housing Finance Law.
6 7942A, by Senator Wright,
7 Environmental Conservation Law.
8 8017, by Senator Mendez, City of
9 New York to reconvey its interest in certain
10 real property.
11 8066, by Senator Volker, amend
12 Chapter 68 of the Laws of 1968.
13 8102, by Senator Padavan, an act
14 to amend the Navigation Law.
15 8146A, by Senator Tully,
16 Executive Law.
17 8392, by Senator Tully, Public
18 Health Law.
19 8528, by the Committee on Rules,
20 General Municipal Law.
21 8579, by Senator Holland, General
22 Municipal Law.
23 8601, by Senator Seward, an act
5466
1 to amend the Canal Law.
2 8622, by Senator Holland, an act
3 to amend the Town Law.
4 8623, by Senator Saland, Family
5 Court Act.
6 8633, by Senator Larkin, an act
7 to amend the Town Law.
8 And 8641, by the Committee on
9 Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
10 All bills reported directly for
11 Third Reading.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Without
13 objection, third reading.
14 Senator Present.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
16 There being no further business, I move that we
17 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Senate
19 stands adjourned.
20 (Whereupon, at 2:32 p.m., Senate
21 adjourned.)
22
23