Regular Session - June 27, 1994

                                                                 
5737

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         June 27, 1994

        10                           4:15 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        20

        21

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        23











                                                             
5738

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Senators please take

         4       their places.  Ask the members of the gallery to

         5       join us in saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                      (The assemblage repeated the

         7       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We're

         9       pleased to have a constituent of Senator

        10       Padavan's with us from Queens, the Reverend

        11       Monsignor George T. Deas from Our Lady of the

        12       Blessed Sacrament.

        13                      REVEREND MONSIGNOR GEORGE T.

        14       DEAS:  I'd like to offer two thoughts as prelude

        15       to our prayer.

        16                      There was a young man who was

        17       taking his first flight and ran into a lot of

        18       turbulence and, in the midst of his anxiety

        19       prayed, "O God, if you get me out of this, I

        20       will give you half of what I earn."  Suddenly

        21       the sun came out and about a half hour later the

        22       plane landed evenly and uneventfully.  But just

        23       behind him was a preacher who tapped him on the











                                                             
5739

         1       shoulder as he got up to go out and said, "I

         2       heard the prayer that you uttered and so I would

         3       like to collect for the Lord," and the man

         4       turned and said to him, "No deal," he said.

         5       "I've -- I've changed the terms;" and he said,

         6       "What do you mean?"  And he said, "Well, I said

         7       to the Lord, if you ever catch me in one of

         8       these things again, you can have it all."

         9                      We take from that that God cuts

        10       no deals and in the end he gets it all.  The

        11       second thought comes from Teresa of Avila who

        12       says that God sees us all the time but, when we

        13       pray, we see God seeing us.  So let us bow our

        14       heads and ask for the wit to take this

        15       conversation seriously.

        16                      We call You Almighty, the all

        17       powerful one because in You alone all power

        18       resides and in You alone absolute power is in

        19       corruptible.  What power we possess derives from

        20       You and threatens to corrupt us only when we

        21       forget that.  Give us the humility to remember

        22       that You made the world.  It is Yours to save.

        23       You made us stewards of the world, and it is











                                                             
5740

         1       ours to serve, and so we pray for our nation and

         2       especially our state on whose soil our feet are

         3       planted and in whose history we see Your

         4       provident hand.

         5                      Help us to find our soul.  We

         6       develop swift means of transportation.  Show us

         7       the place to go.  We develop incredible methods

         8       of communication.  Teach us what to say.  We

         9       have amassed immense wealth.  Give us the goals

        10       worthy of Your love on which to spend it.  Bless

        11       this nation, this state, this chamber of Senate

        12       and the women and men within it for the

        13       resurgence of integrity.  Give us courage to be

        14       strong in assisting the weak, wisdom to rebuild

        15       our cities well, humility to live the trust in

        16       You which is engraved on our currency and our

        17       coins, and at last sharpen our sense of humor so

        18       as to see all things from Your perspective and

        19       know when we have said enough.  Amen.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Reading

        21       of the Journal.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        23       Sunday, June 26th.  The Senate met pursuant to











                                                             
5741

         1       adjournment, Senator Bruno in the Chair upon

         2       designation of the Temporary President.  The

         3       Journal of Saturday, June 25th, was read and

         4       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

         6       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

         7       read.

         8                      Presentation of petitions.

         9                      Messages from the Assembly.

        10                      Senator Present, there's one at

        11       the desk.  I ask the Secretary to read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  The Assembly

        13       returned Senator Padavan's bill, Senate Bill

        14       Number 5904-B, Assembly Reprint Number 30005, an

        15       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        16       relation to the offense of unlawful solicitation

        17       of ground transportation services, with

        18       amendments.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Concur in

        20       the amendments.  Senate bill is restored to the

        21       calendar.

        22                      Messages from the Governor.

        23                      Reports of standing committees.











                                                             
5742

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marino,

         2       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         3       following bills directly for third reading:

         4                      Senate Bill Number 2491-A, by

         5       Senator Montgomery, authorizing the city of New

         6       York to reconvey its interest in certain real

         7       property;

         8                      3185-C, by Senator Spano, an act

         9       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        10                      3276-B, by Senator Spano, an act

        11       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        12                      3674, by Senator Present, Real

        13       Property Tax Law;

        14                      5499-A, by Senator Saland, an act

        15       to amend the Social Services Law;

        16                      5571, by Senator Padavan, an act

        17       to amend the Public Authorities Law;

        18                      5871, by Senator Velella, an act

        19       to amend the Judiciary Law;

        20                      6081-A, by the Senate Committee

        21       on Rules, an act to amend the Vehicle and

        22       Traffic Law.

        23                      6706-B, by Senator Stachowski,











                                                             
5743

         1       authorizing the city of Lackawanna to

         2       discontinue the use and sell certain park lands;

         3                      6885-A, by Senator Seward, an act

         4       to amend the Election Law;

         5                      7015, by Senator Johnson, an act

         6       to amend the General Municipal Law;

         7                      7024, by Senator Lack, an act to

         8       amend the Labor Law;

         9                      7704, by Senator Present,

        10       Environmental Conservation Law;

        11                      7758, by Senator Velella, an act

        12       to amend the Insurance Law;

        13                      7811-A, by Senator Johnson, an

        14       act to amend the General Municipal Law;

        15                      7968-A, by Senator Daly, an act

        16       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law

        17       reported with amendments;

        18                      8029, by Senator Ohrenstein,

        19       authorize the city of New York to reconvey its

        20       interests in certain real property;

        21                      8064, by Senator Lack, an act to

        22       amend the General Obligations Law;

        23                      8090-A, by Senator Goodman, an











                                                             
5744

         1       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

         2                      8145, by Senator Lack, Uniform

         3       City Court Act;

         4                      8189-A, by Senator Present,

         5       Environmental Conservation Law;

         6                      8288-A, by Senator Present, an

         7       act to amend the Town Law and the Public

         8       Officers Law;

         9                      8398, by Senator Daly, an act to

        10       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        11                      8503, by Senator Skelos, amends

        12       Chapter 1014 of the Laws of 1984;

        13                      8520, by Senator Sears, authorize

        14       the town of Massena in St. Lawrence County to

        15       construct office facilities;

        16                      8648, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        17       to amend the Election Law;

        18                      8661, by Senator Libous,

        19       Surrogate's Court Procedure Act;

        20                      8679, by the Committee on Rules,

        21       Public Authorities Law;

        22                      8684, by Senator Daly, authorize

        23       the sale and lease of real property at the











                                                             
5745

         1       Rochester Psychiatric Center;

         2                      8694, by Senator Saland,

         3       Environmental Conservation Law;

         4                      8695, by Senator Spano, amends

         5       Chapter 318 of the Laws of 1991;

         6                      8704, by Senator Holland, an act

         7       to amend the Social Services Law; and

         8                      8739, by Senator Tully, an act to

         9       amend the Public Health Law.

        10                      All bills reported directly for

        11       third reading.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All bills

        13       are reported directly to third reading.

        14                      Reports of select committees.

        15                      Communications and reports from

        16       state officers.

        17                      Motions and resolutions.

        18                      Senator Libous.

        19                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      On behalf of Senator Stafford, on

        22       page 42, I offer the following amendments to

        23       Calendar Number 1106, Senate Print Number 8030,











                                                             
5746

         1       and ask that said bill retain its place on the

         2       Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments are received and adopted.

         5                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  And, Mr.

         6       President, would you also please remove the star

         7       on that bill.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Star is

         9       removed.

        10                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President,

        11       also on behalf of Senator Stafford, I wish to

        12       call up his bill, Senate Print Number 7467

        13       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        14       desk.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        18       Stafford, Senate Bill Number 7467, an act to

        19       amend the General Construction Law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Libous.

        22                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        23       now move to reconsider the vote by which this











                                                             
5747

         1       bill was passed.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the roll, or call the roll on

         4       reconsideration.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         6       reconsideration. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Libous.

        10                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        11       now offer up the following amendments.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        13       Amendments are received and adopted.

        14                      Senator Libous.

        15                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Again, Mr.

        16       President, on behalf of Senator Stafford, I wish

        17       to call up his bill 441-C recalled from the

        18       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        22       Stafford, Senate Bill Number 441-C, an act to

        23       amend the Tax Law.











                                                             
5748

         1                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

         2       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         3       bill was passed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         9                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

        10       offer up the following amendments.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Amendments are received and adopted.

        13                      Senator Libous.

        14                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President,

        15       on behalf of Senator Marchi, I wish to call up

        16       his bill, Print Number 6521-A recalled from the

        17       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        21       Marchi, Senate Bill 6521-A, an act to amend the

        22       Environmental Conservation Law.

        23                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I











                                                             
5749

         1       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         2       bill was passed.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll on reconsideration.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         6       reconsideration. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         8                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  I now offer the

         9       following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      Senator Libous.

        13                      SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, on

        14       behalf of myself, may I please put a sponsor's

        15       star on Calendar Number 854.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would you please

        19       recognize Senator Markowitz.

        20                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I would like

        21       to be recorded on 1289, which the Senate

        22       approved on June 12th, 1289, I would have voted

        23       in the affirmative enthusiastically.











                                                             
5750

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Markowitz, the record will show that had you

         3       been present when that bill was voted on, you

         4       would have voted in the affirmative.

         5                      Senator Seward.

         6                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President,

         7       on behalf of Senator Tully, I wish to call up

         8       his bill Print Number 8180-A recalled from the

         9       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Tully,

        13       Senate Bill 8180-A, authorize the village of

        14       Westbury to discontinue the use of certain park

        15       lands.

        16                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President, I

        17       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        18       bill was passed.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        22       reconsideration. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.











                                                             
5751

         1                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President, I

         2       now offer the following amendments.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments are received and adopted.

         5                      Senator Seward.

         6                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Also on behalf

         7       of Senator Tully, I wish to call up his bill

         8       Print Number 233 recalled from the Assembly

         9       which is now at the desk.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Tully,

        13       Senate Bill 233, an act to amend the Criminal

        14       Procedure Law.

        15                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now move to

        16       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        17       passed.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        21       reconsideration.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        23                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President, I











                                                             
5752

         1       now offer the following amendments.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Amendments are received and adopted.

         4                      Senator Seward.

         5                      SENATOR SEWARD: On behalf of

         6       Senator Goodman, I wish to call up Calendar

         7       Number 709, Assembly Print Number 6114-C.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Assembly Bill

        11       Number 6114-C, an act to amend the Arts and

        12       Cultural Affairs Law.

        13                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now move to

        14       reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill

        15       was substituted for Senator Goodman's bill,

        16       Senate Print Number 3874-B on April 27th.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        20       reconsideration. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        22                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now move that

        23       Assembly Bill Number 6114-C be committed to the











                                                             
5753

         1       Committee on Rules and Senate -- the Senate bill

         2       be restored to the order of Third Reading

         3       Calendar.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Assembly bill will be recommitted and the Senate

         6       bill will be restored to the Third Reading

         7       Calendar.

         8                      Senator Seward.

         9                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President, I

        10       now offer the following amendments to that bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Amendments are received and adopted.

        13                      SENATOR SEWARD: O.K. And finally

        14       on behalf of Senator Levy, I wish to call up

        15       Calendar 1028, Assembly Print Number 2235-A.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Assembly Bill

        19       2235-A, an act to amend the Public Authorities

        20       Law.

        21                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now move to

        22       reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill

        23       was substituted for Senator Levy's bill, Senate











                                                             
5754

         1       Bill Number 8300, on May 11th.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         5       reconsideration. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

         7                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now move that

         8       Assembly Bill Number 2235-A be recommitted to

         9       the Committee on Rules, and that Senator Levy's

        10       bill be restored to the Third Reading Calendar.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Assembly bill will be recommitted, and the

        13       Senate bill will be restored to the Third

        14       Reading Calendar.

        15                      SENATOR SEWARD:  I now offer the

        16       following amendments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Amendments are received and adopted.

        19                      Senator Farley.

        20                      SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      On behalf of Senator Levy, please

        23       remove a sponsor's star from Calendar Numbers











                                                             
5755

         1       293 and 328.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

         3       stars will be removed from 293 and 328.

         4                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

         5       Senator Kuhl, please place a sponsor's star on

         6       Calendar Number 1164.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

         8       star is placed on Calendar Number 1164.

         9                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Also on behalf

        10       of Senator Daly, on page 4, Calendar Number 261,

        11       Senate Print 4583-D, I offer the following

        12       amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Amendments are received and adopted.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I have a number

        16       of these.

        17                      On behalf of Senator Daly

        18       amendments are also offered on page 10, Calendar

        19       Number 593, Senate Print 7281-A, offer the

        20       following amendments.

        21                      On behalf of Senator Hannon, on

        22       page 28, Calendar Number 1246, Print Number 8530

        23       I offer the following amendments.











                                                             
5756

         1                      Behalf of Senator Johnson, page

         2       32, Calendar Number 1337, Senate Print 6851, I

         3       offer amendments.

         4                      On behalf of Senator Skelos, on

         5       page 33, Calendar 1345, Senate Print 8452, I

         6       offer the following amendments.

         7                      On behalf of Senator Skelos, on

         8       page 38, Calendar Print --  Calendar Number 600,

         9       Senate Print 7412, I offer the following

        10       amendments.

        11                      On behalf of Senator Velella,

        12       page 19, Calendar 882, Senate Print 6787-A,

        13       offer amendments.

        14                      And on behalf of Senator Kuhl, on

        15       page 32, Calendar Number 1338, Senate Print

        16       7406-A, I offer the following amendments, and I

        17       ask that these bills retain their place on the

        18       Third Reading Calendar.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Amendments are received and accepted on

        21       Calendars Number 593, 1246, 1337, 1345, 600, 882

        22       and 1338.  The bills will retain their place on

        23       the Third Reading Calendar.











                                                             
5757

         1                      Senator Rath.

         2                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

         3       wish to call up my bill, Print Number 7054-B

         4       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

         5       desk.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  7054-B, an act to

         9       amend the State Administrative Procedure Act.

        10                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

        11       now move to reconsider the vote by which the

        12       bill was passed.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        16       reconsideration. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        18                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

        19       now offer the following amendments.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Amendments are received and adopted.

        22                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President,

        23       additionally I wish to call up my bill, Print











                                                             
5758

         1       Number 7743-A recalled from the Assembly which

         2       is now at the desk.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Rath,

         6       Senate Print Number 7743-A, an act to amend the

         7       State Administrative Procedure Act.

         8                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

         9       now move to reconsider the vote by which the

        10       bill was passed.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        14       reconsideration. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        16                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

        17       now offer the following amendments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        19       Amendments are received and adopted.

        20                      SENATOR RATH:  Additionally, Mr.

        21       President, I wish to remove the sponsor's star

        22       from my Bill Number 1064.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's











                                                             
5759

         1       star is removed from Calendar Number 1064.

         2                      SENATOR RATH:  Thank you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Maltese.

         5                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         6       I wish to call up Calendar Number 813, Assembly

         7       Print Number 10571.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Assembly Bill

        11       Number 10571, an act to amend the County Law.

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I now move to

        13       reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill

        14       was substituted for my bill, Senate Print Number

        15       4571-B on May 10th.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        19       reconsideration. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        21                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I now move that

        22       Assembly Bill Number 10571 be committed to the

        23       Committee on Rules and my Senate bill be











                                                             
5760

         1       restored to the order of the Third Reading

         2       Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Assembly bill will be recommitted and the Senate

         5       bill will be restored to the Third Reading

         6       Calendar.

         7                      Senator Maltese.

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         9       I now offer the following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      Senator Cook.

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

        14       would you please remove the sponsor's start from

        15       Senate Print Number 7231, Calendar Number 1306.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

        17       star will be removed from Calendar Number 1306.

        18                      Senator Johnson.

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        20       I wish to call up my bill, Print Number 2802-A

        21       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        22       desk.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5761

         1       will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senate Bill

         3       Number 2802-A, by Senator Johnson, an act to

         4       amend the Education Law.

         5                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         6       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         7       bill was passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        11       reconsideration. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Johnson.

        15                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        16       I now offer the following amendments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Amendments are received and adopted.

        19                      Senator Johnson.

        20                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        21       on page 5, I offer the following amendments to

        22       Calendar Number 285, Senate Print Number 4369-B

        23       and ask that said bill retain its place on the











                                                             
5762

         1       Third Reading Calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

         4       will retain its place on the Third Reading

         5       Calendar.

         6                      Senator Johnson.

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         8       on page 31, please place a sponsor's star on

         9       Calendar Number 1329, Senate Print Number

        10       3181-A.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sponsor's

        12       star will be placed on 1329.

        13                      Senator Spano.

        14                      SENATOR SPANO: On behalf of

        15       Senator Bruno, I wish to call up his bill,

        16       Senate Print 6727 recalled from the Assembly

        17       which is now at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Bruno,

        21       Senate Bill Number 6727, an act to amend the

        22       Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5763

         1       Spano.

         2                      SENATOR SPANO:  Now move to

         3       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         4       passed.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         8       reconsideration.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.

        10                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        11       following amendments.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        13       Amendments are received and adopted.

        14                      Senator Spano.

        15                      SENATOR SPANO:  Also on behalf of

        16       Senator Bruno, I wish to call up his bill, Print

        17       Number 6937, recalled from the Assembly which is

        18       now at the desk.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Bruno,

        22       Senate Bill Number 6937, Racing, Pari-Mutuel

        23       Wagering and Breeding Law.











                                                             
5764

         1                      SENATOR SPANO:  Move to

         2       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         3       passed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

        10       following amendments.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Amendments are received and adopted.

        13                      Senator Spano.

        14                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President, I

        15       wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number

        16       5738-A recalled from the Assembly which is now

        17       at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Spano,

        21       Senate Bill Number 5738-A, an act to amend the

        22       Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        23                      SENATOR SPANO:  I now move to











                                                             
5765

         1       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         2       passed.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         6       reconsideration.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

         8                      SENATOR SPANO:  Offer the

         9       following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Present, we have some substitutions.  Secretary

        15       will read the substitutions.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6 of

        17       today's calendar, Senator Kuhl moves to

        18       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

        19       Bill Number 10374-A and substitute it for the

        20       identical Third Reading 331.

        21                      On page 7, Senator Levy moves to

        22       discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly

        23       Bill Number 9806-A and substitute it for the











                                                             
5766

         1       identical Third Reading 392.

         2                      On page 18, Senator Libous moves

         3       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         4       Assembly Bill Number 10877-A and substitute it

         5       for the identical Third Reading 853.

         6                      On page 24, Senator Levy moves to

         7       discharge the Committee on Transportation from

         8       Assembly Bill Number 9612, and substitute it for

         9       the identical Third Reading 1001.

        10                      On page 30, Senator Paterson

        11       moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        12       Assembly Bill Number 4218-A and substitute it

        13       for the identical Third Reading 1324.

        14                      On page 32, Senator Volker moves

        15       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        16       Assembly Bill Number 9338, and substitute it for

        17       the identical Third Reading 1336.

        18                      And on page 34, Senator Volker

        19       moves to discharge the Committee on Local

        20       Government from Assembly Bill Number 9057 and

        21       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        22       1353.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:











                                                             
5767

         1       Substitutions are ordered.

         2                      Senator Present, that brings us

         3       to the calendar.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Take up the

         5       non-controversial calendar.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the non-controversial calendar.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 4,

         9       Calendar Number 193, by Senator Daly, Senate

        10       Bill Number 1098-A, an act to amend the

        11       Environmental Conservation Law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       331, substituted earlier today, by member of the











                                                             
5768

         1       Assembly Doran, Assembly Bill Number 10374-A, an

         2       act to amend the Public Officers Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       359, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 6861

        15       C, authorize the city of Ogdensburg School

        16       District to finance the projected accumulated

        17       deficit.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5769

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       485, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 193-D,

         7       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

         8       the Railroad Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47, nays

        17       one, Senator Seward recorded in the negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       538, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 7431-A,

        22       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5770

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       bill's passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       648, by Senator Kruger, Senate Bill Number 7102,

        12       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5771

         1       659, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number

         2       7410-A, authorizing the State University of New

         3       York to lease certain lands.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       bill's passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       663, by member of the Assembly Pheffer, Assembly

        16       Bill Number 825-A, an act to amend the Insurance

        17       Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5772

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         3       the results.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44, nays 4,

         5       Senators Cook, DeFrancisco, Kuhl and Seward

         6       recorded in the negative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       715, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill -

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Could we have a

        12       day on that, please.

        13                      SENATOR DALY:  Lay it aside.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       771, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 7797

        19       B, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5773

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       779, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside for the day.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       823, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        13       7023-A, authorizing the town of Waverly, county

        14       of Franklin to discontinue the use and transfer

        15       certain park lands.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.











                                                             
5774

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       850, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 7034

         5       A, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       898, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7999-A,

        18       State Administrative Procedure Act.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay aside,

        20       please.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5775

         1       1010, by Senator Levy.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         3       for the day.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside for the day.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1067, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

         8       8063-A, an act to amend the Education Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1095, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number

        21       6699, an act to amend the General Municipal Law,

        22       in relation to bingo.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5776

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45, nays

         8       three, Senators Cook, Seward and Tully recorded

         9       in the negative.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senators

        13       LaValle and Padavan recorded in the negative;

        14       also Senator Gold in the negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1165, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number

        19       3463-B, an act to amend the Real Property Tax

        20       Law.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        22       will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5777

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay aside.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         4       bill aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1191, by Senator Cook.

         7                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Lay aside,

         8       please.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1210, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number

        13       1012-G, an act to amend the Agriculture and

        14       Markets Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
5778

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Farley.

         5                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Could I be

         6       recorded in the negative on 663.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, Senator Farley will be recorded in

         9       the negative on Calendar Number 663.  Secretary

        10       will continue to call the non-controversial

        11       calendar.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1261, by Senator Larkin.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay that aside

        15       for the day, please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside for the day.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1287, by Senator Rath.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        21       temporarily.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside temporarily.











                                                             
5779

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1290, by Senator Stafford.

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Lay that aside

         4       for the day.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside for the day.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1315, by Senator Tully.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        10       for the day, please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside for the day.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1317, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        15       Bill Number 8528, an act to amend the General

        16       Municipal Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        18       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        19       read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5780

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49, nays

         3       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1323, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         8       Bill Number -

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay aside

        10       temporarily.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside temporarily.  Lay the bill aside

        13       temporarily.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1324, substituted earlier today, by member of

        16       the Assembly Wright, Assembly Bill Number 4218

        17       A, city of New York to reconvey certain real

        18       property in the borough of Manhattan.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        20       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        21       read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5781

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1326, by Senator Cook.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Could we have a

        10       day on that?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside for the day.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1327, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number

        15       2486, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.











                                                             
5782

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1328, by Senator Mendez, Senate Bill Number

         5       2579-B, to permit Robin L. Liberman to revoke a

         6       previous election of death benefit coverage.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        15       the results.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48, nays 3,

        17       Senators Dollinger, Gold and Leichter recorded

        18       in the negative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1330, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number

        23       4262-A, an act to amend the Tax Law and the











                                                             
5783

         1       Public Service Law.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can we have one

         3       day on that, please? One day.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside for the day.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1331, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number

         8       5322-B, an act to amend Chapter 879 of the Laws

         9       of 1936.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        11       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        12       read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1332, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

        23       5396-A, an act to amend the Retirement and











                                                             
5784

         1       Social Security Law.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section -

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Will you hold

         6       on a minute?  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1335, by Senator Tully.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        12       for the day, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside for the day.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1336, substituted earlier today, by member of

        17       the Assembly Johnson, Assembly Bill Number 9338,

        18       an act to amend Chapter 644 of the Laws of

        19       1993.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        21       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        22       read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5785

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50, nays

         6       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1339, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 7512,

        11       an act to amend the Labor Law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read -

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside,

        15       please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1340, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number

        20       7634, an act to amend Chapter 545 of the Laws of

        21       1938.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the last section.











                                                             
5786

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       bill's passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1341, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 8088,

        11       an act to amend Chapter 78 of the Laws of 1989.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        13       for the day, please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside for the day.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1342, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number

        18       8227, an act to amend the Public Authorities

        19       Law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5787

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1343, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8254,

         9       an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1344, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        22       8440, an act to amend the Family Court Act.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay aside, please.











                                                             
5788

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1346, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 8573

         5       A, authorizing the town of Clifton Park,

         6       Saratoga County, to lease certain park lands.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

         8       for the day.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside for the day.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1347, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number

        13       8582-A, an act to amend the General Obligations

        14       Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
5789

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1348, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 8590,

         4       authorizing the city of Yonkers to discontinue

         5       as a park land certain lands.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         7       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         8       read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1349, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill -

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay aside for

        20       the day.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5790

         1       1350, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number

         2       8619, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

         3       Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         5       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         6       read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1351, by Senator Stafford.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can we have one

        18       day on that, please?

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Please, lay

        20       the bill aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside for the day.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5791

         1       1352, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         2       Bill Number 8682, an act to amend the Retirement

         3       and Social Security Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1353, substituted earlier today, by member of

        16       the Assembly Pordum, Assembly Bill Number 9057,

        17       an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        19       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        20       read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
5792

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  On Calendar

         7       Number 1353, Senator Leichter is recorded in the

         8       negative.  Ayes 50, nays one.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      Senator Present, that completes

        12       the non-controversial calendar.  What's your

        13       pleasure, sir?

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Let's take up

        15       the controversial calendar, please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the controversial calendar.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 15,

        19       Calendar Number 715, by Senator Daly.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Can we have a day

        21       on that, please?

        22                      SENATOR DALY: Lay the bill aside

        23       for the day.











                                                             
5793

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       aside for the day.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 21,

         4       Calendar Number 898, by Senator Rath, Senate

         5       Bill Number 7999-A, State Administrative

         6       Procedure Act.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Gold.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would the

        11       distinguished Senator yield for a question?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Rath, do you yield to Senator Gold?

        14                      SENATOR RATH:  Certainly.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, Senator.

        16       I'd just like to know what the amendment is in

        17       the "A" print, please.

        18                      SENATOR RATH:  What the what is?

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'd like to know

        20       what the amendment is in the "A" print, please.

        21                      SENATOR RATH:  O.K. What happened

        22       when it went over to the Assembly for discussion

        23        -- and by the way they passed it with the











                                                             
5794

         1       changed language.  The original had the word

         2       "reason" in it, the reason that the proposed

         3       rule-making, proposed reason of rule was not

         4       anticipated.

         5                      We've taken the word "reason" out

         6       of it because it's a very subjective kind of

         7       thing and could have been challenged and we've

         8       just made it that the notice of proposed rule

         9       making, that rule was not under consideration at

        10       the time the regulatory agenda was submitted for

        11       publication, very objective now rather than

        12       subjective.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the last section.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I have a

        17       question.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I just wanted

        21       to ask Senator Rath a question if she would be

        22       kind enough to yield.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5795

         1       Rath, would you be kind enough to yield? Senator

         2       yields.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, my

         4       notes indicate that this bill was passed last

         5       year, was vetoed by the Governor; is that

         6       correct?

         7                      SENATOR RATH:  I understand

         8       that's right, Senator.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Now, the

        10       amendments that you were just explaining or

        11       possibly some other amendment to the bill, does

        12       that meet the objection that the Governor had?

        13                      SENATOR RATH:  Senator, I would

        14       have to check with counsel.  One moment.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Sure.

        16                      SENATOR RATH:  Thank you for the

        17       delay.  Yes, we have worked with the Governor's

        18       people on this as we changed the bill from last

        19       year's draft.  This latest amendment was at the

        20       request of the Assembly, our -- in the negotia

        21       tion with the Assembly staff and with my staff

        22       from the ARRC.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5796

         1       Leichter.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

         3       don't have the Governor's veto message.  I have

         4       a note here, I don't know if this is accurate,

         5       that says that the Governor vetoed the bill

         6       because, in his view, existing requirements for

         7       regulatory impact and regulatory flexibility

         8       make the bill unnecessary.

         9                      Now, if that's a correct

        10       statement of the Governor's reason, it wouldn't

        11       seem that the amendments that you've made to the

        12       bill meet the Governor's objections.

        13                      SENATOR RATH:  Well, I can -- you

        14       don't see that the amendments meet the Govern

        15       or's objection, Senator, is that correct?

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  As -- the note

        17       that I have.  I don't have the veto message

        18       there, but it would seem that the reasons that

        19       he vetoed the bill last year are not met by the

        20       amendments that you describe to us and those

        21       amendments you told us had been worked out with

        22       the Assembly.  Apparently it was not worked out

        23       with the Governor's Counsel.











                                                             
5797

         1                      SENATOR RATH:  I believe,

         2       Senator, that we have a difference possibly in

         3       philosophy here.  The bill is requiring rather

         4       than permitting the Departments of Health,

         5       Education, Insurance and EnCon and Social

         6       Services to submit for publication to the State

         7       Register regulatory agendas forced upon us.

         8                      I think there may be a difference

         9       in the way the administration would feel about a

        10       requirement rather than a permission to submit

        11       regulatory agendas.  Here we're saying that they

        12       must submit regulatory agendas, so I think we

        13       have a philosophical difference here with the

        14       administration, but the Assembly agrees with us

        15       that they should be required.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah, Senator

        17       Rath.  Let me say, I have -- I have no problem

        18       in where we disagree with the Governor's view in

        19       passing a bill.  The one thing that sort of

        20       surprises me, and I raised this last week with

        21       Senator Holland, he had a bill that had been

        22       vetoed by the Governor and he submitted the very

        23       same bill for our consideration, and it seemed











                                                             
5798

         1       to me that if we have this disagreement with the

         2       Governor, and we feel that we're right, then

         3       maybe the appropriate thing to do is to move to

         4       override the veto rather than sending him a bill

         5       which he'll veto, which will come back which

         6       then you will resubmit.  Doesn't seem that we

         7       ever get any resolution then.

         8                      SENATOR RATH:  Well, this is a

         9       substantially different bill.  I was again

        10       advised by our staff who were here as this went

        11       through last year, that substantially this is

        12       different, and I recall last week we had one

        13       that was not substantially different, but this

        14       one is a different circumstance.  This one is

        15       substantially different.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you,

        17       Senator.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 1st day of November

        22       next succeeding the date on which it shall have

        23       become law.











                                                             
5799

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1165, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number

         9       3463-B, an act to amend the Real Property Tax

        10       Law.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Trunzo, an explanation has been asked for by

        14       Senator Gold on Calendar Number 1165.

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Senator Gold,

        16       this is bill to grant counties and other

        17       localities an ability to develop and implement a

        18       tax abatement program which targets strategic

        19       industries.  It's an option, you know, a local

        20       option program, to provide localities the

        21       flexibility, the authority needed to target

        22       these heavy tax abatements to key industries

        23       within their areas.











                                                             
5800

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Leichter.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Would Senator

         6       Trunzo yield, please?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Trunzo, do you yield to Senator Leichter?

         9                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Trunzo yields.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, what

        13       are the standards under which you determine that

        14       the ICIB that you're establishing for Suffolk

        15       County will have the authority to grant tax

        16       exemptions?

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Well, under 380

        18        -- Section 385(b) -- 385(b) of the Real Proper

        19       ty Law, there is a tax exemption, but it covers

        20       everybody; in other words the town, by local

        21       option, would cover every individual or heavy

        22       industry with a tax abatement.

        23                      This section of law we're











                                                             
5801

         1       creating now would permit a particular community

         2       to -- you know, to set up with a board that's

         3       being set up at all levels of government to take

         4        -- partake in the decision-making of what

         5       industries should receive some preferential

         6       treatment in tax abatements such as in Suffolk

         7       County where a lot of technical industries are

         8       moving out there, maybe some incentive for them

         9       to come if they can get some tax abatements.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Senator,

        11       if you would be good enough to continue to

        12       yield.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        14       you continue to yield?

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yeah.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Trunzo continues to yield.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If I under

        19       stand what you're saying, there is presently

        20       authority for ICIB tax exemption, is that

        21       correct?

        22                      SENATOR TREUNZO:  There is

        23       authority for tax exemptions right now under 485











                                                             
5802

         1       (b) of the Real Property Tax Law.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Right, and

         3       could you explain again how your bill modifies

         4       or alters the grant of that tax exemption?

         5                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  What happens

         6       right now under that particular section of law,

         7       a town board can elect to go in and give tax

         8       exemptions, you know, starting with 50 percent,

         9       40, 30, working for a period or number, I

        10       believe of ten years of tax exemption to all

        11       industry within that particular community and

        12       the town can opt in or opt out of that

        13       particular section.  If they feel, you know,

        14       which I know many towns feel that they can't

        15       afford to do this any longer, have stopped

        16       giving that exemption.

        17                      Now, under this particular

        18       legislation, the strategic industries, we are

        19       creating a board within the county that includes

        20       the cities, the towns, the villages, the school

        21       districts and all involved who will make general

        22       decisions as to what type of industry, not all

        23       industry, but what type of industry should get











                                                             
5803

         1       an exemption.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  So am I

         3       correct, as I understand it, that your bill then

         4       sets up this board which will have the right and

         5       the power to limit the grant of the ICIB

         6       exemption to particular industries or industries

         7       that create certain number of jobs?

         8                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  That's right.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And am I also

        10       correct there's no standards in your bill as to

        11       how they exercise this?

        12                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  No, there are no

        13       standards.  This would be a determination by the

        14       representatives of all levels of government

        15       within that county -

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But they have

        17       to -

        18                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  -- to make the

        19       decision.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  They have the

        21       right to limit or modify the grant now which you

        22       say is all-encompassing.

        23                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Would be all











                                                             
5804

         1       encompassing, right.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And I'm not

         3       sure what I would like to see as the answer to

         4       this question, but do you think it would be wise

         5       for the Legislature to try to set some

         6       parameters, some criteria, some standards as

         7       to -

         8                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  You've got

         9       different towns -

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  What we think

        11       makes -

        12                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  -- different

        13       sections of the state; it's a statewide bill.

        14       It's not only a Suffolk County bill and you find

        15       different industries in different parts of the

        16       state that may be, you know, the main industry

        17       in that area that they would want to continue

        18       attracting and, therefore, those municipalities

        19       can make the decision as to who they should give

        20       the tax abatement to, to try to encourage the

        21       retention of that particular industry in that

        22       area.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I tend to











                                                             
5805

         1       agree with you.  I think it makes sense.

         2                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Last section.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the 1st day of January

         7       next succeeding the date on which it shall have

         8       become a law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1191, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2549

        17       A, an act to amend the Education Law.

        18                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Cook, an explanation has been asked for on

        21       Calendar Number 1191 by Senator Stavisky.

        22                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, in

        23       a word, that bill conforms the process by which











                                                             
5806

         1       small cities would adopt budgets to be the same

         2       as the process that's currently utilized by

         3       central school districts.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         5       recognizes Senator Stavisky.

         6                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Would the

         7       sponsor yield for one or two questions?

         8                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Cook, do you yield?

        11                      SENATOR COOK: Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Cook yields.  Senator Stavisky.

        14                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Is it true

        15       that NYSUT, representing many of the teachers

        16       employed in these small city school districts

        17       has filed a memo in opposition?

        18                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes, it is,

        19       Senator.

        20                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Is it true

        21       that the Association of Small City School

        22       Districts, the employers has also filed a memo

        23       in opposition?











                                                             
5807

         1                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes, it is,

         2       Senator.

         3                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I'm not sure

         4       about the next question, but has the New York

         5       State School Boards Association also opposed

         6       this bill?

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  I don't have a

         8       filing, but it's our understanding they oppose

         9       it.

        10                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  They oppose

        11       it, but I've not seen the memo.

        12                      Thank you very much, Senator.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Stavisky, on the bill.

        15                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  The sponsor,

        16       unintentionally I believe, has managed to unite

        17       the employer, and the employees in opposition to

        18       this legislation.  That means that the school

        19       boards in the small city school districts and

        20       the teachers in the small city school districts

        21       think this is a bad idea.

        22                      Under those circumstances, there

        23       should be some signals to sponsors of











                                                             
5808

         1       legislation that perhaps there are enough

         2       unanswered questions that have generated the

         3       opposition of very responsible organizations.

         4       It's not often that we find that the school

         5       boards as employers and the employee

         6       organizations, the teachers' union are in

         7       agreement, and I think under the circumstances

         8       we in the Legislature should be very careful not

         9       to move for the adoption of this bill.

        10                      What you have here is a confusion

        11       between the things that the voters will be able

        12       to vote on and the things they will not be able

        13       to vote on.  Throughout the state of New York,

        14       there's a lot of unhappiness with wasteful

        15       expenditures or questionable expenditures, by

        16       all types of governments, not just school

        17       districts.  Towns, cities, villages, counties,

        18       are all -- and the state of New York are all

        19       subject to the adoption of policies which the

        20       voters are not happy with.

        21                      If I may quote an organization

        22       called CHANGE New York, that's what CHANGE New

        23       York was trying to change, and it's not that I











                                                             
5809

         1       embrace their philosophy, I'm simply saying that

         2       they have touched upon a raw nerve.  But do we

         3       give to the voters throughout the state of New

         4       York the opportunity to comment on appropria

         5       tions by the state, by the counties, by the

         6       towns, by the villages and other units of local

         7       government?  Absolutely not.

         8                      The school districts themselves

         9       stand out there as lightning rods to voter

        10       dissatisfaction with taxes and expenditures

        11       inflicted upon school budgets, and I think that

        12       that's unfair, very much unfair in terms of

        13       public dissatisfaction with things that are done

        14       by government where the only retaliation can be

        15       against the school districts.  Children do not

        16       vote.  Therefore, there is an obligation on the

        17       part of the Legislature to live up to the

        18       provisions of Article XI, Section 1, of the New

        19       York State Constitution that we shall provide

        20       for a system of free common schools and the

        21       funding for such schools wherein all of the

        22       children of the state maybe educated; and that

        23       doesn't mean that all of the children are











                                                             
5810

         1       educated in public institutions, but we should

         2       not set up a vulnerability, an unintentional

         3       vulnerability for the school funding when no

         4       other policies of government are subject to

         5       voter approval or disapproval.

         6                      So what happens? There's a

         7       movement to stop unnecessary funding.  Bang!

         8       The only place where you can express your

         9       opposition is in the school vote, and I think

        10       given that circumstance, that this is a terribly

        11       unfair piece of legislation.  It's also unfair

        12       because there is not a clear distinction between

        13       what is permitted after the defeat of a school

        14       budget and what is not permitted after the

        15       defeat of a school budget, and the idea of the

        16       austerity budget should be clarified.

        17                      Right now, even if this were

        18       approved, many parts of the school budget are

        19       still in limbo.  Yes, they can knock out certain

        20       expenditures.  Yes, they can knock out certain

        21       things that they don't like in the budget.  But

        22       did you note that the basic educational program

        23       can't be knocked out?  Did you know also that











                                                             
5811

         1       only discretionary transportation and libraries

         2       and the extracurricular activities, including

         3       the sports programs which keep many kids

         4       interested in the school, interested in

         5       attending classes so they can participate in the

         6       athletic programs, that will fall victim to this

         7       kind of legislation?

         8                      I think that, under the circum

         9       stances, many of the programs for remediation,

        10       some of the needy programs and others will also

        11       fall victim to this kind of legislation.  Let us

        12       decide what should be funded.  Let us provide

        13       adequate funding at the state level.  Let us

        14       encourage those cities, small cities, the

        15       so-called "Hurd decision" cities, to be able to

        16       support at their end with local funding in a

        17       fair way the kinds of educational programs that

        18       need to be funded.

        19                      I live in a large city.

        20       Nevertheless I do not wish to see any school

        21       child vulnerable because there has been an

        22       unfair repudiation of the school budget that is

        23       not extended to any other appropriation of











                                                             
5812

         1       government and, under the circumstances, I urge

         2       you to follow the advice of the New York State

         3       School Boards Association, the New York State

         4       Association of Small City School Districts and

         5       NYSUT representing many of the teachers in these

         6       school districts.  Follow their advice and vote

         7       "No" on this bill.

         8                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Cook.

        11                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

        12       thought it was kind of interesting that Senator

        13       Stavisky mentioned the employees and the

        14       employers.  The one group he didn't mention was

        15        -- and didn't ask me, and that's the people who

        16       pay the bill, who are the taxpayers.

        17                      Senator Stavisky certainly

        18       remembers as well as anyone, probably better

        19       than anyone in this chamber, when the

        20       constitutional tax limit on small cities was

        21       removed.  That was done, I forgot how many years

        22       ago now.  That was done by a Constitutional

        23       Amendment, and it was done at the time when a











                                                             
5813

         1       commitment was made to the people in those

         2       districts that, if we removed the constitutional

         3       tax limit which was their protection at the time

         4       against excessive taxation, that we would

         5       substitute for it the vote on school budgets

         6       which is what all the other school districts in

         7       the state have and that is the reason Senator

         8       Donovan, before me, and I have persisted in

         9       trying to get this bill passed year after year.

        10                      I think it is a commitment that

        11       we made to the residents of small city school

        12       districts all those years ago, and I won't even

        13       argue whether it's a good idea or a bad idea,

        14       but it was a commitment on the part of the

        15       leadership of this state at the time and, for

        16       that reason, if for no other reason, it ought to

        17       be passed.

        18                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Stavisky.

        21                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Would you

        22       yield for just one more question?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5814

         1       Cook, do you yield?

         2                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         3                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Are these

         4       taxpayers for whom you speak the taxpayers who

         5       finance local expenditures for education, are

         6       they the same taxpayers who also pay taxes for

         7       county government, city government, town and

         8       village government and state government as well

         9       as the federal government?

        10                      SENATOR COOK:  Senator, they are,

        11       but indeed they are also the only taxpayers that

        12       indeed is the only entity of government that

        13       does not have a constitutional tax limit.  The

        14       school districts are the only entity of

        15       government that does not have a constitutional

        16       tax limit.  That's why they have votes on the

        17       budgets because that is a quid pro quo for not

        18       having a constitutional tax limit.

        19                      These people, the folks who live

        20       in small city school districts, are the only

        21       people who have neither the constitutional tax

        22       limit nor the vote.

        23                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  It seems to me











                                                             
5815

         1       that it's just ludicrous -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         3       recognizes Senator Stavisky.

         4                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- that we

         5       should not be concerned with waste and

         6       inefficiency in any level of government whether

         7       under Republican or Democratic jurisdiction or

         8       non-partisan jurisdiction, because waste is

         9       waste and unnecessary taxes are unnecessary

        10       taxes, and until we give to the voters, the

        11       ability to knock out wasteful expenditures by

        12       any level of government, and to zero in on these

        13       expenditures, to be able to judge what the

        14       officials, the local officials of the towns and

        15       villages and counties in the state and the

        16       federal government have done, I think this beats

        17       up on children and they're the ones who suffer

        18       and they're the ones who can't vote and they're

        19       the ones who do have to be protected, and I

        20       think for these reasons and the others that I've

        21       stated, this is not the best way to go and we

        22       should be prepared to follow the advice of the

        23       employers and the employees and responsible











                                                             
5816

         1       advocates for education by voting "no".

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         3       any other Senator wishing to speak on this bill?

         4                      Senator Stachowski.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         6       President, on this bill, I have memos from the

         7       city, the small city I represent, Lackawanna, in

         8       opposition to this as well as the memos that

         9       Senator Stavisky mentioned, and my problem is

        10       that I don't know any school districts where

        11       their budgets are constantly defeated or not

        12       whose local school taxes go down, and in the

        13       case of these small cities, the only thing I see

        14       happening by having a separate school board

        15       budget vote is that their taxes are going to go

        16       up eventually and in most of these small cities

        17       and in the one I represent in particular, the

        18       businesses that are located there want anything

        19       but to have school taxes go up and, in their

        20       case, most of the business people that have the

        21       businesses there do not live there, so they

        22       won't even be voting on these school budgets.

        23       The school budgets will be increasing, and these











                                                             
5817

         1       businesses will be taxed to the point that

         2       they'll be leaving this city that has all kinds

         3       of financial difficulties anyway, mainly because

         4       of the departure of Bethlehem Steel's presence

         5       and here's a city that's barely surviving, a

         6       school district that is in immense turmoil and,

         7       although I'd love to see the people have the

         8       opportunity to vote, at this point in time, I

         9       just can't support this and, for that reason,

        10       I'm rising to speak against it and to vote

        11       against it.

        12                      Thank you.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Jones.

        15                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes.  On the

        16       bill.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Jones, on the bill.

        19                      SENATOR JONES:  I voted for the

        20       bill last year, and I will vote for it this

        21       year, but only because I do believe that voters

        22       should have every opportunity for input, but I

        23       have to warn, maybe the word I want to say our











                                                             
5818

         1       colleagues and actually say, you well know we

         2       are not giving them a gift.  We are giving them

         3       something that they have less than ten percent

         4       control of, and I live in -- happen to be in a

         5       district that has both sides of this fence.

         6                      I live in a -- I have many

         7       suburban school districts, one of whom this year

         8       put up an eight percent tax increase that was

         9       resoundingly voted down only to return with a

        10       contingency budget that was 8.3.  Now, what does

        11       that say to voters? It really doesn't say much,

        12       what we've given them in the line of voting and

        13       then I have on the other hand the big city that

        14       you end up with a war between your government

        15       entity and your school district, one who's

        16       taxing, the other who is setting the budget.

        17                      So I will support it only

        18       because, you know, I do believe in everyone

        19       having an opportunity to vote, but I think we're

        20       just passing the buck.  I think we also have an

        21       additional obligation to start looking at a

        22       contingency budget and looking at the whole

        23       issue of funding schools and not just be passing











                                                             
5819

         1       it on to a school district that takes the flack

         2       from everybody for what's happening here.

         3                      So you know, I have every

         4       confidence.  I know Senator Cook has been

         5       looking for -- at lots of areas in education

         6       where we can fix this problem, so I have

         7       confidence he will continue to do that, but I

         8       think we need to keep that in mind.  We really

         9       are not giving any gift to a taxpayer who really

        10       has say in less than ten percent of what they're

        11       voting on.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        15       President, I concur with the comments that

        16       Senator Jones expresses with respect to change

        17       in the -- in the way we handle austerity budget

        18       and budget votes.

        19                      I rise simply to speak in favor

        20       of this.  I represent, I believe, the eighth

        21       largest school district in New York State in the

        22       town of Greece, a school district with none -

        23       which nonetheless has to put its budgets up for











                                                             
5820

         1       a vote and, last year in 1993, drew almost

         2       18,000 people out for a school board election,

         3       and it seems to me that the -- if we were making

         4       a determination that had to do with size, there

         5       might be some way to justify an exclusion for

         6       big entities that require extensive votes.

         7                      But we're not doing that.  What

         8       we -- what this bill tends to do is to extend to

         9       small cities the same requirement that applies

        10       to suburban school districts like the one I

        11       represent.

        12                      I will be voting in favor of this

        13       because of the consistency that this bill

        14       creates.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Last section.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 18.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce











                                                             
5821

         1       the results.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         3       the negative on Calendar Number 1191 are

         4       Senators Connor, Espada, Gold, Kruger, Leichter,

         5       Markowitz, Mendez, Onorato, Paterson, Smith,

         6       Solomon, Stachowski and Stavisky.  Ayes 40, nays

         7       13.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1287, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8605.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay aside

        13       temporarily.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside temporarily.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1290, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number

        18       443, Environmental Conservation Law.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside

        21       for the day.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside for the day.











                                                             
5822

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1323, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         3       Bill Number 86....

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay it aside

         5       for the day.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay aside

         7       for the day.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1332, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number

        10       5396-A, an act to amend the Retirement and

        11       Social Security Law.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        13                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        14       this bill really should be called an attempt at

        15       equalizing benefits for members of the State

        16       Police.  It's at the request of the State Police

        17       officers.

        18                      What this act calls for is the

        19       inclusion of 30 days of unused accumulated

        20       vacation pay in the final average salary for the

        21       purposes of retirement benefits.  This bill

        22       would liberalize the final average salary

        23       calculations for those tier -- all Tier II State











                                                             
5823

         1       Police officers hired after April 1st, 1972 and

         2       all Tier II State Police officers.

         3                      The average cost, the -- I'm

         4       sorry.  It would entail a one-time service cost

         5       of $12 million which would be borne by the state

         6       of New York as a one-time payment and would be

         7       an increase in the annual contributions of the

         8       state of New York of approximately eight-tenths

         9       of one percent of the annual salary of Tier II

        10       police officers.

        11                      Tier II members -- Tier II

        12       members have, in essence, a cap on the computa

        13       tion of final average salaries.  These same Tier

        14       II police officers are treated very differently

        15       than Tier I officers and, in addition, are

        16       treated very differently than local police

        17       officers.  For example, local police officers

        18       have the option to convert to a one-year final

        19       average salary.

        20                      In addition, the local officers

        21       generally have a higher mandatory retirement

        22       age, have a greater amount of eligible maximum

        23       termination pay days and overall are treated











                                                             
5824

         1       much better as far as retirement is concerned by

         2       the pension plan.

         3                      So, in essence, what we're trying

         4       to do is equalize the benefits of the Tier II

         5       police officers and bring them more into line

         6       with the benefits already received by Tier I

         7       State Police officers.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         9       recognizes Senator Leichter.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.  Senator

        11       Maltese, I notice that in the -- if you will be

        12       good enough to yield, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       yields.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And I

        16       appreciate your carrying the cudgels for Senator

        17       Volker.  I'm -- I miss, I know as everybody

        18       does, his being here and arguing for his bills,

        19       but I know that you do it very effectively.

        20                      But I am concerned as I look at

        21       the fiscal note attached to the bill that

        22       there's going to be a one-time contribution of

        23       $12 million.  That's the -- that's just for the











                                                             
5825

         1       back obligations.  Then in addition, of course,

         2       there's going to be a continuing cost to the

         3       pension system, is that correct?

         4                      SENATOR MALTESE:  That's

         5       correct.  The continuing cost after the $12

         6       million payment, as I indicated, would be .8 -

         7       eight-tenths of one percent per year, the

         8       continuing cost of the change.  It would be the

         9       difference between the retirement they receive

        10       now and the retirement they would receive adding

        11       in the accumulated 30 days of unused vacation

        12       pay.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, where

        14       are we going to find the $12 million for that

        15       one lump sum payment?

        16                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I'm advised

        17       that some of the $12 million is, in fact,

        18       included in the budget.  How much?  It's going

        19       to roll into two fiscal years, so apparently

        20       there is -- there is or there has been some

        21       steps taken so that the present budget and

        22       hopefully next year's budget would cover the $12

        23       million expenditure.











                                                             
5826

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, was

         2       that $6 million put in the -- what, the state

         3       appropriations?

         4                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         5       I'm advised that because the -- these

         6       expenditures would not be made until these

         7       members of the State Police force applied for

         8       retirement the majority of this expenditure

         9       would not be made except in future years and

        10       that apparently they're figuring out that it

        11       would be four and eight, $4 million in the

        12       coming year and $8 million in the year

        13       thereafter.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And Senator,

        15       did I understand you correctly that we have put

        16       money in the budget for that specific payment?

        17                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Is that so?

        18       That's what we're advised.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        20       accept what you say.  I'm surprised because that

        21       wasn't my belief, but -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Maltese, do you continue to yield?











                                                             
5827

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       yields.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Let me turn to

         5       what, as I understand, the rationale for this

         6       bill.  There's the difference between what

         7       presently exists between Tier I and Tier II as

         8       it affects the State Police, is that correct?

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  That's

        10       correct.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Would you be

        12       in favor of wiping out all the distinctions

        13       between Tier I and Tier II?

        14                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, I -- Mr.

        15       President, I don't know how Senator Volker would

        16       feel, but I would be in favor of wiping out the

        17       distinction as it affects members of the State

        18       Police and local police.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, can I

        20       try to understand your rationale, why you want

        21       to wipe out that distinction only for the State

        22       Police?  There are other employees of the state,

        23       in fact, they sit right here.  Some are Tier I,











                                                             
5828

         1       some are Tier II, some are Tier III.  Would you

         2       be in favor of wiping out those distinctions?

         3                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         4       those distinctions have built up over a long

         5       period of time.  Because I have a personal

         6       interest, I'd rather not comment on our -- our

         7       benefits, but as to members of the State Police

         8       and as to members of local police forces, I feel

         9       that they are entitled to the extra recompense,

        10       they are entitled to the extra benefits and, if

        11       they serve the minimum amount of years, 20

        12       years, and if they have reached the permitted

        13       age of retirement, 55 I believe, then -- or a

        14       combination thereof, then I believe they should

        15       receive the same benefits.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I'm

        17       still having a difficulty in understanding why

        18       you distinguish between State Police and local

        19       police and other employees of the state.

        20                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        21       that's the very point I'm making.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Maltese.  Senator Leichter, are you asking him











                                                             
5829

         1       to yield to a question?

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, if you

         3       would, please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Maltese, will you yield to a question?

         6                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         7       that's the very point I'm making.  My question

         8       to Senator Leichter should be why do you

         9       distinguish between members of the local police

        10       and members of the State Police who are in Tier

        11       II?

        12                      At the present time, there is a

        13       great distinction, and these State Police

        14       covered under Tier II are treated differently

        15       and are treated and are, in fact, discriminated

        16       against by receiving far less benefits.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        18       Maltese will continue to yield.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Maltese, do you continue to yield.  Senator

        21       continues to yield.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        23       happened to vote against setting up these











                                                             
5830

         1       various tiers because I think it did create some

         2       invidious distinctions, and I think made it

         3       difficult people working side by side performing

         4       the same duty and yet receiving far different

         5       benefits, but what I don't understand is why

         6       that problem exists only in the State Police.

         7       Doesn't it exist in other services to the state

         8       of New York, where we have Tier I and Tier II

         9       and the same differences in retirement exist?

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        11       I think the good Senator Leichter would agree

        12       that, while service as a state Senator or other

        13       service for the state in an administrative

        14       capacity or any clerical capacity would have its

        15       sacrifices, I don't think that there would be

        16       much disagreement that service as a State

        17       Policeman would entail more risk, more danger

        18       and thus, in my opinion at least, be entitled to

        19       additional benefits.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Maltese, do you continue to yield?  Senator

        23       yields.











                                                             
5831

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You're

         2       absolutely correct that State Police, local

         3       police take a risk; in some respects, we can

         4       never compensate them enough because these are

         5       people who risk their lives for us, but that

         6       still doesn't explain, Senator, why we would

         7       permit discrimination in pension and that's

         8       really what you're saying, pension benefit for

         9       some employees, but we're saying that for the

        10       State Police the nature of their duty makes that

        11       sort of discrimination unwise.

        12                      I don't understand it.  I think

        13       it's a matter of the compensation that you give

        14       the State Police, but I can't -- I can't accept

        15       the argument that discrimination and pension

        16       benefits is -- is acceptable for all state

        17       employees except State Police, but that's your

        18       position, isn't it?

        19                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        20       that isn't exactly my position.  I am aware that

        21       there are many fiscal and financial restraints.

        22       There are many restrictions and confines within

        23       which we have to operate, and we have to work as











                                                             
5832

         1       a fiscally responsible Legislature.  The -

         2       certainly many of us would feel that we should

         3       be more generous to various of the employees,

         4       past and present, of the state who are now

         5       receiving retirement benefits.  At the same time

         6       there are costs involved, and it will take time

         7       and it will take legislation and good will on

         8       the part of many people to try to, in some

         9       cases, equalize but hopefully in all cases

        10       utilize the element of fairness so that we can

        11       remedy any of the inequities.

        12                      This appears to be an inequity as

        13       it relates to members of the State Police, a law

        14       enforcement body, and this legislation is a

        15       partial answer as it relates to members of the

        16       State Police to equalize their benefits and the

        17       benefits of the other members of the State

        18       Police in Tier I and local law enforcement

        19       officials -- policemen.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah, Mr.

        21       President.  If Senator Maltese will continue to

        22       yield.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5833

         1       Maltese, do you continue to yield?

         2                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       continues to yield.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

         6       Maltese, this bill deals with the pension

         7       discrimination, if you will, or variation

         8       between Tier I and Tier II.  How about those

         9       police officers, State Police, local police that

        10       are in Tier III?  You're still going to have a

        11       distinction between men and women serving in the

        12       State Police doing the same duty.  Some now are

        13       in Tier III; I guess we also have Tier IV, which

        14       have different pension benefits.

        15                      Why does your bill just address

        16       the difference between Tier I and Tier II and I

        17       understand, it's Senator Volker's bill.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Well, Mr.

        19       President, certainly there is a distinction here

        20       and we are working within certain confines,

        21       fiscal restraints, and it affects a certain

        22       amount of members of the State Police in Tier

        23       II.  Certainly, if Senator Leichter would care











                                                             
5834

         1       to introduce a bill applying to members of Tier

         2       III, it certainly would be -- as it relates to

         3       State Police, it would be a bill that I would

         4       look sympathetically on and I personally, I

         5       don't speak for Senator Volker, but a bill that

         6       I could support.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         8       first let me thank my good friend for his

         9       answers and they're articulate and forceful and

        10       somewhat persuasive, but not fully persuasive as

        11       always.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Leichter, on the bill.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just on the

        15       bill.

        16                      My colleagues, I've often gotten

        17       up on the floor and tried to argue for consist

        18       ency and logic and, much as I'd like to benefit

        19       members of the State Police for many reasons,

        20       primarily, of course, the service that they do

        21       to the people of the state of New York, but I

        22       have difficulty with the rationale of this

        23       bill.











                                                             
5835

         1                      Even if I could accept, and I do

         2       not, the argument that we have to treat State

         3       Police differently because of the nature of

         4       their work, it seems to me that ought to be

         5       reflected, and I think is reflected in their pay

         6       and since we've established a state policy that

         7       we would have various tiers on pension benefits,

         8       I can't say that I can exempt members of the

         9       State Police from that.

        10                      But this bill doesn't even wipe

        11       out all of the distinctions.  All it does, it

        12       deals with one distinction that exists between

        13       Tier I and Tier II and far from creating greater

        14       uniformity, this creates greater exceptions and

        15       I -- I've argued against that on the floor in

        16       any number of areas.  I -- I don't think,

        17       Senator Maltese, it's an answer to say, well,

        18       you made a good point.  Why don't you put in a

        19       bill.  If -- if the logic of your argument is

        20       going to prevail, Senator, then it seems to me

        21       that it's the obligation of the sponsor or you,

        22       as the person who is defending this bill, to

        23       say, You know something?  You're right.  I'm











                                                             
5836

         1       going to wipe out all the distinctions and I

         2       can't see that we would say, Well, you know,

         3       we've got $12 million, we'll apply it just to

         4       wiping out the -- this difference between Tier I

         5       and Tier II for one class of people.

         6                      I have a lot of question that

         7       there really is money in the budget for this,

         8       because I can not understand why we would put up

         9       money solely for this class of state employees.

        10       I don't think there's any basis or rationality

        11       for it and, for that reason, much as I'd like to

        12       assist and help and compensate and reward State

        13       Police, I just don't think there's a logic to

        14       this, and I just don't think that we can respond

        15       in this helter-skelter fashion to this group,

        16       that group, part of a group, this individual,

        17       that individual.

        18                      We have a responsibility.  We're

        19       legislating for 18 million people.  We need a

        20       consistency in our laws.  We need uniformity in

        21       our laws.  We need fairness in our laws and,

        22       frankly, under those tests, Senator Maltese, I'm

        23       afraid that Senator Volker's bill fails.











                                                             
5837

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President, will the sponsor yield to just one

         5       question?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Maltese, do you yield to just one question?

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       yields.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  As I

        12       understand it, this bill would require an annual

        13       employer contribution of .8 percent of the Tier

        14       II salaries for State Police officers?

        15                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes,

        16       eight-tenths of one percent.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Eight-tenths

        18       of one percent of what number is the question?

        19       What's the annual payroll for Tier II State

        20       Police officers, if you know?

        21                      SENATOR MALTESE:  We -- Mr.

        22       President, I understand that Senator Volker's

        23       office requested a fiscal note.  They did not











                                                             
5838

         1       give the annual payroll of the State Police but

         2       simply indicated that it was eight-tenths of one

         3       percent of the annual payroll.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. So we

         5       don't know what that annual contribution will be

         6       on the state.

         7                      Just a follow-up question, again

         8       if Senator Maltese will -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Maltese, do you yield to a follow-up

        11       question?

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        13       I understood there was only one question, but

        14       I'll be glad to yield.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I thank my

        16       colleague for his deference, Mr. President.

        17                      My question is, obviously there's

        18       a difference between the Tier I and Tier II

        19       approach to State Police officers.  There must

        20       be a logic behind that differential.  What was

        21       the differential and what, if anything, has

        22       changed that would require us to re-examine it?

        23                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,











                                                             
5839

         1       I didn't hear the end of the question.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, there

         3       is a difference between the Tier I and the Tier

         4       II pension requirements and benefits with

         5       respect to vacation, the others that are

         6       outlined in the sponsor's memo.  My question is,

         7       why are those differences -- why do they, exist

         8       because they are obviously part of when we

         9       passed the Tier II system there is obviously an

        10       explanation as to why we couldn't continue Tier

        11       I, and my question is what has changed now since

        12       then to have us re-examine that rationalization

        13       for the difference?

        14                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        15       the differentiation between Tier I and Tier II,

        16       of course, relates to the point of beginning of

        17       service.  As to what has changed, I think the

        18       passage of time and the fact that probably a

        19       majority of the Tier I employees have already

        20       retired in view of the mandatory retirement age

        21       of 55, and obviously, the class that we're

        22       dealing with now is a much larger proportion of

        23       the present members of the State Police.











                                                             
5840

         1                      But, Mr. President, I'm aware

         2       that doesn't completely answer the question as

         3       to what factor brought this change about.  I

         4       don't know.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I guess, Mr.

         6       President, I guess my final question then would

         7       be, was it because we couldn't afford it the

         8       first time around; is that why we changed from

         9       Tier I to Tier II and changed the requirements

        10       because it was too expensive?

        11                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        12       obviously most of the decisions relating to

        13       pension are made over a period of time taking

        14       into consideration the number of people

        15       affected, taking into consideration the

        16       comparable pension plans in private industry, in

        17       government service, and I imagine the most

        18       compelling factor is a --  the fiscal situation

        19       prevailing at the time as far as taxpayer

        20       dollars available for those priorities.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5841

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         8       the results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51, nays

        10       two, Senators Leichter and Paterson recorded in

        11       the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1339, by Senator Spano.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Spano, an explanation has been asked of you for

        21       Calendar Number 1339 by Senator Gold.

        22                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President,

        23       this bill would require that when a temporary











                                                             
5842

         1       employee does not contact the temporary help

         2       firm for reassignment when that original

         3       assignment is completed, it would be deemed a

         4       voluntary quit and the employee would not be

         5       eligible for unemployment insurance benefits.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         8       recognizes Senator Gold.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  I just want to

        10       point out that there is a memorandum in

        11       opposition on this from the New York State

        12       AFL-CIO, which basically says there is no set

        13       definition of, quotes, "temporary employee" in

        14       New York State law.  The definition is important

        15       given the issue of employee leasing which has

        16       consumed so much attention of late.  A recurrent

        17       question is whether the temporary agency is, in

        18       fact, an employer and whether appropriate levels

        19       of social insurance premium are being paid on

        20       behalf of workers referred by such agencies.

        21                      Senator Spano, maybe you want to

        22       comment on that?

        23                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.











                                                             
5843

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Spano.

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  I believe that

         4       this bill does address some of the concerns of

         5       AFL-CIO.  I don't quite understand some part of

         6       the memo.  They're mixing apples and oranges by

         7       comparing temporary employees to employee

         8       leasing, but it is a fact here that the

         9       temporary agencies are, in fact, employers and

        10       must pay all of the benefits that are due to the

        11       employees who are working for them.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Gold.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  The memo which I

        17       just referred to has a time stamp in my file of

        18       May of this year, and it's been around and I see

        19       no amendment, Senator Spano, so there's been no

        20       withdrawal of their opposition and apparently no

        21       attempt to change any language to make them more

        22       secure.  So they stand apparently where they

        23       were in the beginning, opposed to the











                                                             
5844

         1       legislation for the reasons stated.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect on the 30th day after it

         6       shall have become a law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 1339 are

        12       Senators Espada, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz,

        13       Mendez, Onorato, Paterson, Smith, Solomon,

        14       Stachowski and Stavisky.  Ayes 42, nays 11.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1344, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number

        19       8440, an act to amend the Family Court Act.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        21       will the Senator yield to a question?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Saland, do you yield to Senator Gold?











                                                             
5845

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  Certainly.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         3       Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I'll try

         5       and move this along a little bit.

         6                      My understanding from the memo on

         7       the bill is that we're trying to create a

         8       statutory proceeding which you say does not now

         9       exist if someone is in violation of an order, is

        10       that correct?

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  Presently, I

        12       believe it deals with the 600 section of the

        13       Family Court Act.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  This basically

        15       deals in an area of terminating parental rights,

        16       is that correct?

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  Correct, right.

        18       There's reference to the suspended sentence or

        19       suspended judgment, but there's no mechanism

        20       that has been created to basically deal with

        21       that if, in fact, it occurs.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Right.  Well,

        23       Senator, now that I think we all understand











                                                             
5846

         1       generally what we're talking about, this is the

         2       concern that's been raised by our counsel,

         3       Senator Saland.  These are proceedings and these

         4       are areas dealing with the termination of one's

         5       parental rights, not in a voluntary manner but

         6       by hearing, et cetera, and under existing law,

         7       as I understand it, if you want to terminate the

         8       rights, under Section 624, the evidence must be

         9       competent, material and relevant and further, if

        10       there's a dispositional hearing on terminating

        11       parental rights, it says "material and

        12       relevant."

        13                      Now, under your bill which sets

        14       up a procedure, and I'm not arguing with the

        15       concept of the procedure, you only make

        16       reference to competent evidence, and that seems

        17       to be a lower degree of evidence than it would

        18       be if it was in line with the other sections,

        19       material and relevant and competent, and the

        20       only question we have is, not setting up the

        21       procedure, Senator, but when you're dealing with

        22       such a sensitive area of terminating parental

        23       rights of a human being, why would we want to











                                                             
5847

         1       lower the standard of evidence?

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  Senator Gold,

         3       I'm not quite certain that there's any intention

         4       here to reduce the standard, and I would

         5       certainly think that, in any proceeding, any

         6       material and relevant evidence would be

         7       admitted.  Whether this was an oversight in

         8       draftsmanship, I'd be more than happy -

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        10       yield to a question?

        11                      SENATOR SALAND: Yes.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Saland,

        13       knowing your reasonableness, I would have spoken

        14       to you about it.  This was given to me at a late

        15       moment.  Is it something that you might want to

        16       lay it aside a day?

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  I will lay it

        18       aside for the day.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  And look it over.

        20       I think the concept of having the procedure,

        21       you're absolutely right.  Thank you, Senator.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside for the day.











                                                             
5848

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1349, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number

         3       8610, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

         4       Law.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  One moment,

         6       please.

         7                      Explanation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Padavan, an explanation has been asked for by

        10       Senator Gold.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yeah.  This

        12       bill relates to the matter of driver's licenses

        13       or non-driver identification cards.  It requires

        14       that such documents be issued upon presentation

        15       that the individual is a lawful resident of this

        16       country.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        18       recognizes Senator Mendez.

        19                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Would the

        20       Senator yield for a question?

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Padavan yields.











                                                             
5849

         1                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Padavan,

         2       we know about the pre-occupation that all of us

         3       have in terms of illegal immigration.  Don't you

         4       think that this bill of yours is assuming the

         5       function of the federal government?  Shouldn't

         6       it be the federal government the one who should

         7       be checking whether or not people are here

         8       illegally or not without burdening our agency

         9       with another function of finding out whether

        10       someone who is applying for a driver's license

        11       is a legal resident, a citizen or an illegal

        12       alien?

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let me answer

        14       your question, Senator.  The prerogative and

        15       authority to issuing driver's licenses remains

        16       with the state.  We obviously do not want to

        17       issue driving license or identification cards

        18       which, as you know, you don't have to be a

        19       driver, you can go to Motor Vehicle Bureau and

        20       get an I.D. card photo to someone who is in this

        21       country illegally, because sometimes things

        22       happen that we don't want to happen.

        23                      As an example, a bus driver











                                                             
5850

         1       driving family members on the New York State

         2       Thruway from one of our prisons to the city of

         3       New York involved in a very serious accident, a

         4       number of people seriously hurt, including

         5       children, one fatality, police came to the

         6       scene, they found out, number one, he was an

         7       illegal alien; number two, he had a driver's

         8       license that had been issued to him, and he also

         9       had a forged Social Security card.  Now, I don't

        10       think we want that sort of thing to happen.

        11                      Now, the federal government, INS

        12       which you mention, neither has the resources nor

        13       the mechanism for monitoring a state's issuance

        14       of a driver's license.  They're nowhere in that

        15       system.  That's why the state of California, the

        16       state of Colorado and most recently the state of

        17       New Jersey have adopted this particular

        18       proposal.

        19                      You must also keep in mind that

        20       when someone who should not be in this country,

        21       and I say is here illegally, and you could be

        22       here legally in many ways, you know; you don't

        23       have to be -- you could be here on a visa,











                                                             
5851

         1       student visa, work permit, asylum, all kinds of

         2       ways of being here legally, but people use motor

         3       vehicle driver's licenses to then become the way

         4       of entering into other programs such as social

         5       services, which also we certainly don't want to

         6       have happen, and that's the reason for this.

         7                      If INS was equipped, designed,

         8       authorized to check all our drivers' licenses

         9       that we issue, it would be right, but they're

        10       not.

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  So then, your

        12       reason then for this bill it follows that

        13       whenever the federal government, any federal

        14       agency, is unable to do the job that they're

        15       supposed to do, then we at the state level must

        16       take on those functions.  But I have another

        17       question for you, Mr. President, if he yields.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Padavan, do you continue to yield?  Senator

        20       yields.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  And that is

        22       that, you know that the last immigration law

        23       that was passed, I believe in 1986 established











                                                             
5852

         1       the -

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  1990.

         3                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  -- functions,

         4       penalties for employers who would, in fact, hire

         5       illegal aliens.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Right.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  How would this

         8       affect the aliens?  This bill will be affecting

         9       a lot of businesses.  Hopefully, we would like

        10       all the businesses not to hire illegal aliens

        11       but unfortunately the law of the land is that

        12       they would have to pay a penalty, so your bill

        13       will be affecting businesses because many -

        14       assuming that there are businesses that are

        15       hiring illegal aliens, they go to the Motor

        16       Vehicle Bureau and upon finding that -- that

        17       documentation presumes that they are illegal

        18       aliens, then it's very easy to go after this

        19       business person.

        20                      Who knows, maybe accidentally -

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I don't know if

        22       that's a question or not, Senator, but that's

        23       just simply not the case.  This bill places, as











                                                             
5853

         1       you accurately stated, your first question, a

         2       responsibility on the Department of Motor

         3       Vehicle Bureau to ensure that driver's licenses

         4       are not issued to people who are in this country

         5       illegally and it has no relevance to employers.

         6       Matter of fact, I guess you could think, if you

         7       wanted to really carry this out, it might help

         8       employers who unwittingly -- unwittingly might

         9       hire an illegal alien and violate federal law

        10       because someone showed them a driver's license

        11       that they shouldn't have got in in the first

        12       place, so I see no negative impact on

        13       employers.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Look -- thank

        15       you.  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Mendez.

        18                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  On the bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Mendez, on the bill.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I know that

        22       Senator Padavan is very meticulous in trying to

        23        -- in the legislation that he submits, to this











                                                             
5854

         1       chamber.  I know that he cares and he is very

         2       well intentioned.  On the other hand, my problem

         3       with this bill is that it is an instance more in

         4       which, although it appears to be all right on

         5       the surface and that all of us red-blooded

         6       Americans will support that concept, that those

         7       that are not supposed to be in this country, we

         8       should chase them out, and that is acceptable;

         9       yet on the other hand, it gives me the feeling,

        10       Mr. President, that there are I am seeing now

        11       too many, too many instances of immigrant

        12       bashing occurring throughout the country, and

        13       this bill definitely will have, I believe, an

        14       impact on small businesses, who unwantingly

        15       might or knowingly might hire an illegal alien

        16       and that person suddenly would find him' or

        17       herself with a heavy fine for something that he

        18       or she didn't know that they were breaking the

        19       law.

        20                      Also, why should we at the state

        21       level impose a greater burden on those employees

        22       and on that agency to do their work when we are

        23       not providing extra amounts of monies to do so?











                                                             
5855

         1       The -- the illegal aliens, it is important to

         2       apprehend them and to deport them, that is a

         3       function of the United States federal government

         4       and I don't think -- we have plenty of troubles

         5       in New York, in New York State.  I don't think

         6       that we should take on that function.

         7                      Therefore, Mr. President, I will

         8       not be supporting this bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        10       recognizes Senator Leichter.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        12       on the bill.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Leichter, on the bill.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You know, at

        16       least the first response to this bill is that,

        17       well, this is reasonable.  I mean why should we

        18       make this benefit of driving a car in New York

        19       available to somebody who isn't here legally?

        20       The more I think about it, Senator Padavan,

        21       well, the more I'm inclined to agree with our

        22       colleague, Senator Mendez, but I'll tell you one

        23       thing that from the very beginning in looking at











                                                             
5856

         1       this bill that somewhat disturbed me, and that's

         2       your legislative findings and declaration which

         3       I guess embodies the view that seem to underlie

         4       the report that you recently put out that

         5       undocumented aliens are such a burden on the

         6       state of New York, and you have statements in

         7       here that I, frankly, think are somewhat

         8       inaccurate as well as maybe being somewhat

         9       offensive.

        10                      For instance, you state the

        11       Legislature also finds increasing evidence that

        12       undocumented immigrants account for a growing

        13       percentage of the under custody population of

        14       our state prison system, implying that

        15       undocumented aliens or undocumented persons in

        16       this state are inclined to criminality.

        17                      You state:  The Legislature

        18       hereby finds and declares that illegal

        19       immigration in New York State is a serious and

        20       growing problem for the state.  I don't believe

        21       that's the case.  In fact, just recently, I

        22       think Mayor Giuliani was heard to say that he

        23       found that the number of undocumented people was











                                                             
5857

         1       actually a help and a boon to the city of New

         2       York.  I believe that I have read that statement

         3       and I'm -- and I'm representing it accurately.

         4                      So I -- even if I were in favor

         5       of the bill, I would have some problem with your

         6       declaration of findings and legislative intent.

         7       But also the more I think of the bill, Senator,

         8       I think that it is the role of the federal

         9       government to deal with the problem of

        10       immigration.  I assume that, if the state wanted

        11       to and thought it was necessary and thought it

        12       was appropriate and had the money for it, there

        13       are a number of things that we could do to

        14       enforce the federal immigration laws.  We could

        15       volunteer any sort of action, but I don't -- I

        16       don't know what the benefit is for the people of

        17       the state of New York in doing this.

        18                      I also don't know what the

        19       consequences are, of saying that now Department

        20       of Motor Vehicle has to check everybody's right

        21       to be legally in the country.  In some respects

        22       that could be easily done if you can locate your

        23       birth certificate which I believe most people











                                                             
5858

         1       can't.  If you could, if you have a passport,

         2       although even now, frankly, to my surprise the

         3       Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't even -

         4       doesn't even accept a passport as sufficient

         5       identification.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, will

         7       you yield?  You know, I've listened to about a

         8       half a dozen errors, and so I'm disposed to rise

         9       and this last point is particularly erroneous.

        10                      I would give you a list, I'll

        11       hand it to you, but let me read you some of

        12       them, of all the documents that are acceptable

        13       to get a driver's license: The birth certificate

        14       obviously, passports, visa -- all -- it's a

        15       whole list of documents that you can produce at

        16       the Motor Vehicle Bureau as a basis for getting

        17       a license.

        18                      You can even be an asylee,

        19       someone who has come to this country seeking

        20       asylum, given that entree, and get a driver's

        21       license.  You also get a Social Security card.

        22       There are dozens and dozens of ways to legally

        23       make application and receive a driver's











                                                             
5859

         1       license.

         2                      All we're saying in this bill is

         3       make sure there is one of them.  They are not

         4       odious in any extent.  We are not enforcing the

         5       immigration laws.  We are simply issuing a

         6       license in this state an appropriate valid way

         7       because it's necessary to do that.  We don't

         8       want people with driver's licenses in New York

         9       State who are in this country illegally.

        10                      Yes, a number of them are here

        11       illegally to break our laws.  That's why 8,000

        12       of them are in our state prisons.  Half of that

        13       number are here illegally.  It is a problem

        14       whether you care to acknowledge it or not.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter has the floor.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Since you

        19       started off saying you wanted to ask me a

        20       question, let me -- let me respond.  Insofar as

        21       the documentation that the Department now

        22       accepts, I just went through that because my

        23       wife, as happens occasionally, lost her driver's











                                                             
5860

         1       license.  To get a new license, to my surprise,

         2       it was not sufficient to give them a copy of her

         3       passport and, if you'll read the paper that you

         4       have, they provide that you have to establish

         5       your identity by various documents that add up

         6       to a number of, I believe it's six.  A passport

         7       to my disbelief, if you read this, is -- is a

         8       value of only two or three, so by itself, it was

         9       not sufficient.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  True.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And, in fact,

        12       I wrote to the Commissioner and said I felt that

        13       was absurd.  I think if somebody comes in and

        14       shows I have a valid U.S. Passport which says "I

        15       am Nina Leichter," that that is sufficient

        16       identity and, therefore, I think I am correct,

        17       Senator, when I say that the problem of

        18       establishing your legal right to be in this

        19       country is not that easy.

        20                      You are imposing a burden on

        21       everybody in this state.  Just think about it

        22       for a moment, particularly if a passport is not

        23       sufficient to show that you're legally in this











                                                             
5861

         1       country, and I would hope the Department, if

         2       your bill should become law, would make

         3       regulations that would accept the passport and

         4       I'd be inclined to believe that they couldn't be

         5       so foolish as not to do this.

         6                      But a lot of people don't have

         7       passports.  A lot of people can't find their

         8       birth certificates.  How do you begin to

         9       establish that?

        10                      Senator, it is a burden and

        11       Senator Mendez is also correct when she says it

        12       imposes a whole range of duties upon the

        13       Department of Motor Vehicles that certainly is

        14       going to be expensive.  So I think we've got to

        15       ask ourselves, what benefit do we get from it?

        16       What is the cost? What is the burden that we put

        17       on all the people of the state?

        18                      And finally, what is the

        19       rationality?  If the rationality is that we in

        20       New York State should do everything we can to

        21       push undocumented aliens out of this state,

        22       leaving aside the whole question of whether

        23       Mayor Giuliani is right or wrong when he says











                                                             
5862

         1       that we benefit from undocumented aliens, but I

         2       just question whether that's a function that the

         3       state should take on, and in some instances as

         4       you know, constitutionally we can't even do it.

         5                      Do you want to go one step

         6       further and say undocumented aliens cannot be

         7       admitted to emergency rooms of hospitals? Do you

         8       want to say undocumented aliens can't be

         9       admitted to the schools? Undocumented aliens

        10       cannot receive other benefits or rights that

        11       other people in this state have and that we want

        12       to give or up to now at least until your bill

        13       came along, that we said that we would give to

        14       everybody in this state?

        15                      So Senator, I think as we look at

        16       the bill and think about it a little more, it

        17       certainly raises, I think some serious questions

        18       and I think it's probably, on balance, an unwise

        19       bill.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Padavan, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'd like to

        23       speak to the comments raised.











                                                             
5863

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Connor.  Got a list going.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I didn't know

         4       you did.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Connor.

         7                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      Will Senator Padavan yield for a

        10       question?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Padavan yields.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you,

        14       Senator, and I apologize.  I came in after the

        15       debate began, and you may have answered this,

        16       but I'm curious about the part of your bill that

        17       talks about the Commissioner of Motor Vehicle

        18       entering into an agreement with INS.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, the

        20       computer exchange.

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Does INS agree

        22       to a statement like this?

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  They are











                                                             
5864

         1       working that out in California, so it's

         2       something else to be explored.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Just to answer

         5       your question more fully and while I'm answering

         6       yours, it might answer Senator Leichter's.

         7                      The bill does require the

         8       Department to develop regulations which could

         9       correct even what he was talking about with

        10       regard to the visa because we are giving them

        11       that mandate which gives regulations as to how

        12       to identify someone who is here legally which

        13       could not only serve a useful purpose dealing

        14       with the illegal population but those who are

        15       her legally.

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Connor on the bill.

        19                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Perhaps I can

        20       clarify something.  Senator Padavan says, well,

        21       they're working it out in California and they'll

        22       work it out here.

        23                      Well, my colleague, Senator











                                                             
5865

         1       Nozzolio, held hearings last year on election

         2       law matters and the testimony from the state

         3       officials who administer elections in our state

         4       is that, when they go to INS to determine if

         5       somebody is a citizen or an alien or whatever,

         6       somebody who is actually voting, that INS tells

         7       them it's confidential, and they won't tell the

         8       state officials that.

         9                      Now, I can not believe they're

        10       going to suddenly give the Motor Vehicle

        11       Department this information if they won't give

        12       the election officials this information.  They

        13       don't give this out.  This is wonderful.  I read

        14       this bill.  I say yeah, you have to prove all

        15       this stuff to get a driver's license, and I

        16       assure you, someone can register to vote, show

        17       no identification.  We don't require that, show

        18       no proof of citizenship, merely answer the

        19       question, are you a citizen, and if they check

        20       "yes," they vote, they are voting, but Senator

        21       Padavan thinks driving is a sacred fundamental

        22       underpinning of American democracy, I suppose,

        23       and we ought to have this extraordinary length











                                                             
5866

         1       here.

         2                      The fact of the matter is this

         3       bill is not well thought out.  It's a reaction,

         4       it's a "me-tooism" to places like California, I

         5       think perhaps Colorado where "know-nothingism"

         6       seems to prevail, and everybody is in a panic

         7       over the numbers of illegal immigrants in those

         8       states, and so now we have a bill where, well,

         9       we're sure the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles

        10       can work out with the Immigration and

        11       Naturalization Service an exchange of informa

        12       tion by computer when, in fact, our own state

        13       election officials can't even get INS to give

        14       them any information about the alien status of

        15       alleged citizen voters, and we require none of

        16       this proof or information for people to vote.

        17                      Now, perhaps that comparison, Mr.

        18       President, ought to convince my colleagues just

        19       how silly and off-the-mark this bill is.  You

        20       know, if you're not going to chase aliens away,

        21       making their life miserable, you're not going to

        22       stop somebody who is illegally in the country

        23       from driving by not giving them a driver's











                                                             
5867

         1       license.

         2                      You may stop them from driving

         3       with insurance, which is something we ought to

         4       think about.  I don't know that we want to do

         5       that.  I don't know that an illegal immigrant

         6       who is determined to drive ought to be denied a

         7       driver's license because they just might go and

         8       drive, and the one thing we know is they'll do

         9       it without insurance.  Who gets hurt then, Mr.

        10       President?  Who gets hurt then when the accident

        11       happens and the driver is uninsured, because he

        12       or she couldn't get a driver's license because

        13       they were an illegal immigrant?

        14                      It just seems to me awfully silly

        15       to come down on this about driver's license

        16       when, in fact, on the other hand, we have

        17       absolutely no information, no requirements with

        18       respect to voting where we have a clear law in

        19       New York State requiring citizenship for a

        20       voter, but we don't ask for any of this informa

        21       tion and when the election officials get

        22       allegations that so and so, a voter in that E.D.

        23       is not a citizen and they call up INS, they're











                                                             
5868

         1       told it's confidential, we can't tell you.  But

         2       somehow or other, Senator Padavan thinks, he's

         3       very confident that the Commissioner of Motor

         4       Vehicles is going to get this information.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Padavan, to close debate.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Very briefly,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                      Senator, you can add New Jersey

        10       to your list of those states whom you have a

        11       certain amount of disdain for because they, in

        12       the latter part of 1993, also adopted this

        13       law which is now going into effect just

        14       recently.

        15                      So obviously we now have three

        16       states, two very large states.  There are six

        17       states that have a large immigration problem,

        18       New Jersey, California, obviously among those

        19       six.

        20                      The fact remains this is not a

        21       panacea to our problems of illegal immigrants

        22       which are very numerous, but it's one item of

        23       many that have been recommended and many which











                                                             
5869

         1       we will pursue, so you might get used to the

         2       idea that we're going to try here to be dealing

         3       with in those areas where we can help ourselves

         4       in dealing with this problem.  Maybe voting will

         5       be one of them, and we'll rely upon your

         6       expertise, Senator, to deal with that part of it

         7       because obviously it's an area that should be

         8       dealt with.

         9                      But that's not the issue today.

        10       Driver's licenses obtained fraudulently are

        11       being used to gain entree for social services

        12       and a whole host of areas where illegal aliens

        13       should not be.  I gave you one incident.  You

        14       may not have been here, where someone, an

        15       illegal alien who got a driver's license who

        16       ended up injuring 14 people and killing a person

        17       on the New York State Thruway.

        18                      Now, the employer didn't know

        19       that he was an illegal alien, I presume, but

        20       somehow he got a driver's license.

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm not

        23       going to yield.











                                                             
5870

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Connor, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR: I wanted to ask

         4       the Senator to yield to a question.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'm not going

         6       to yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Padavan refuses to yield.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The state is -

        10       this is just one area where the state, this

        11       state or any other state, has authority and

        12       responsibility and that is in issuing a driver's

        13       license, and that's the issue we're addressing

        14       today.  It's not solving all of the problems by

        15       a long shot, but it certainly is dealing with

        16       one area that I think we should be dealing with

        17       as other states have already dealt and have done

        18       so.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        22       this bill -- and in committee I raised an issue

        23       and it comes out of Senator Padavan's memo and











                                                             
5871

         1       it was the reference he just made and that's to

         2       somebody who was an illegal alien having an

         3       accident and injuring some people, and I think

         4       that there's just really no validity to the

         5       comparison.  I mean there are people, unfor

         6       tunately who are running people over all over

         7       this state, and we find out that they're driving

         8       taxis, they're driving this; we find out their

         9       licenses have been suspended 17,000 times.

        10                      If people are going to drive,

        11       Senator Padavan, they are going to drive.  I

        12       think that the offensive part of the bill goes

        13       back to the beginning with Senator Mendez and I

        14       have notes here about the non-insurance and the

        15       driver's licenses and all that, but the

        16       offensive part of the bill goes back to Senator

        17       Mendez, and it goes back to the beginning.

        18                      If you analyze what we do in this

        19       legislative session and other legislative

        20       sessions, you'll find, if you examine the laws,

        21       I'm talking laws now that we make, adjustments

        22       to our motor vehicle laws and our health laws

        23       and the insurance laws, et cetera, et cetera,











                                                             
5872

         1       and when you finish with all the laws and you

         2       finish with everything we've done which is real,

         3       why don't you take a look at some of the one

         4       house bills and if you now examine the one-house

         5       bills that come out of your house in this house,

         6       you find that we are concerned about people's

         7       draft status and then keeping them out of

         8       schools or doing things with them, you'll find

         9       out that we have ordered college students to

        10       salute the flag, to sing the Star Spangled

        11       Banner, you'll find out that all of a sudden,

        12       all of a sudden the federal government is

        13       incompetent to handle patriotism and to handle

        14       all of these issues and, interestingly enough,

        15       Jimmy Carter has only been the President a

        16       little time, you were passing all of this stuff

        17       when we had Bush and we had Reagan and

        18       apparently with all of the morality coming out

        19       of those two brilliant gentlemen as leaders in

        20       Washington, we still felt that we had to take on

        21       the obligations of the federal government.

        22                      We ought to really cut that out.

        23       We ought to really cut that out.  There was an











                                                             
5873

         1       editorial in the paper today questioning whether

         2       we would leave Albany without a significant

         3       crime bill.  There are editorials throughout the

         4       state asking if the Legislature is going home on

         5       Friday.  Are we taking care of this problem and

         6       that problem? There is plenty within the state

         7       jurisdiction for us to be able to handle, but

         8       when we see these bills, and somebody made the

         9       comment, Well, you know, you take a look at it,

        10       you get a driver's license maybe, maybe, but

        11       when you start to analyze the philosophy that

        12       goes behind some of these bills, as Senator

        13       Mendez has done, we are the wrong group in the

        14       wrong pew and there's enough to do in this

        15       state, and I would urge us to vote against this

        16       bill and make it clear on each occasion that we

        17       ought to redirect our energy, we should be

        18       redirecting our energies to those state issues

        19       where we can have an impact.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 180th day after it











                                                             
5874

         1       shall have become a law.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         6       the negative on Calendar Number 1349 are

         7       Senators Connor, Espada, Gold, Leichter,

         8       Markowitz, Mendez, Paterson, ayes -- also

         9       Senator Lack.  Ayes 45, nays 8.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Senator Connor.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      Mr. President may I have

        16       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        17       on Calendar Number 1339.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection, Senator Connor will be recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1339.

        21                      Return to motions and resolutions

        22       for a moment, Senator Present; is that O.K.?

        23       O.K.  Senator Nozzolio.











                                                             
5875

         1                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         2       I wish to call up my bill number 813 recalled

         3       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         7       Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 813, authorizing

         8       the county of Cayuga to convey certain

         9       easements.

        10                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        11       I move to reconsider the vote by which this bill

        12       was passed.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        16       reconsideration.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        18                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        19       I now offer the following amendments.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Amendments are received and adopted.

        22                      Senator Seward.

        23                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes, Mr.











                                                             
5876

         1       President.  On page 21, I offer the following

         2       amendments to Calendar Number 952, Senate Print

         3       Number 7905, and ask that the bail retain its

         4       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         6       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

         7       will retain its place on the Third Reading

         8       Calendar.  Senator Seward.

         9                      Senator Present.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        11       before I lose the audience, as I have informed

        12       you before, we intend to conclude business this

        13       Friday for this session.  Therefore, any member

        14       wishing to amend a bill that's on the calendar

        15       should do so by tomorrow.  Bills amended after

        16       tomorrow will not be aged by Friday and,

        17       therefore, would not be able to be considered

        18       for now.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

        20       you, Senator Present.

        21                      Senator Seward to continue.

        22                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.  Along that

        23       vein, I have three more amendments to make











                                                             
5877

         1       here.

         2                      On page -- on behalf of Senator

         3       Levy, on page 38, I offer the following

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 537, Senate Print

         5       Number 7430, and ask that the bill retain its

         6       place on third reading.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

         9       will retain its place on the Third Reading

        10       Calendar.

        11                      Senator Seward to continue.

        12                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Also on behalf

        13       of Senator Levy, on page 9, I offer the

        14       following amendments to Calendar Number 486,

        15       Senate Print Number 1245, and ask that that bill

        16       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Amendments are received and adopted; bill will

        19       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        20                      SENATOR SEWARD:  On behalf of

        21       Senator Saland, on page 30, I offer the

        22       following amendments to Calendar Number 1325,

        23       Senate Print Number 797-B and ask that that bill











                                                             
5878

         1       retain its place on third reading.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

         4       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         5                      Senator Smith.

         6                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you.  Mr.

         7       President, I would request unanimous consent to

         8       be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         9       1349.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, Senator Smith will be recorded in the

        12       negative on Calendar Number 1349.

        13                      Senator DiCarlo.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        15       I wish to call up, on behalf of Senator Wright,

        16       Bill Number 4718, having passed both houses and

        17       not delivered to the Governor.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        21       Wright, Senate Bill Number 4718, an act to amend

        22       the Highway Law.

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I now move to











                                                             
5879

         1       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

         2       passed and ask that the bill be restored to the

         3       order of third reading.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        10       I now offer the following amendments.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Amendments are received and adopted.

        13                      Senator DiCarlo.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        15       on page 41, on behalf of Senator Farley, I offer

        16       the following amendments to Calendar 1032,

        17       Senate Print 6996, and ask that said bill retain

        18       its place on the Third Reading Calendar and

        19       remove the star.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

        22       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        23       The sponsor's star will be removed.











                                                             
5880

         1                      Senator DiCarlo.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  On behalf of

         3       Senator Johnson, I wish to call up bill Print

         4       Number 661 recalled from the Assembly which is

         5       now at the desk.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         9       Johnson, Senate Bill 661, an act to amend the

        10       Environmental Conservation Law.

        11                      MR. DiCARLO:  Mr. President, I

        12       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        13       bill was passed.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        17       reconsideration.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        19                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        20       I now offer the following amendments.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        22       Amendments are received and adopted.

        23                      Senator Rath.











                                                             
5881

         1                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, on

         2       page number 29, on behalf of Senator Larkin, I

         3       offer the following amendments to Calendar

         4       Number 1261, Senate print Number 1902-B, and ask

         5       that said bill retain its place on the Third

         6       Reading Calendar.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

         9       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        10                      Senator Rath.

        11                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, on

        12       behalf of Senator Saland, I offer the following

        13       amendments on page number 37, to Calendar Number

        14       478, Senate Print Number 5881-B, and ask that

        15       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        16       Calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

        19       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        20                      Senator Rath.

        21                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, on

        22       page 38, on behalf of Senator Lack, I offer the

        23       following amendments to Calendar Number 492,











                                                             
5882

         1       Senate Print Number 6935, and ask that said bill

         2       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

         5       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         6                      Senator Present, we have

         7       some substitutions.  Would it be all right to

         8       read them at this time? Secretary will

         9       read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 11,

        11       Senator Velella moves to discharge the Committee

        12       on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 1302-A and

        13       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

        14       606.

        15                      On page 16, Senator Goodman moves

        16       to discharge the committee on Rules from

        17       Assembly Bill Number 2761 and substitute it for

        18       the identical Third Reading 789.

        19                      On page 21, Senator Seward moves

        20       to discharge the committee on Rules from

        21       Assembly Bill Number 10838 and substitute it for

        22       the identical Calendar Number 951.

        23                      Senator Volker moves to discharge











                                                             
5883

         1       the Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number

         2       5654-B and substitute it for the identical Third

         3       Reading 958.

         4                      On page 22, Senator Skelos moves

         5       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

         6       Assembly Bill Number 9409-A and substitute it

         7       for the identical Calendar Number 967.

         8                      On page 37, Senator Libous moves

         9       to discharge the Committee on Rules from

        10       Assembly Bill Number 9958, and substitute it for

        11       the identical Third Reading 489.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        13       substitutions are ordered.  Senator Present.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        15       there being no further business, I move that we

        16       adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        18       members will note the time change difference.

        19       Without objection, the motion to adjourn is

        20       approved.  Senate will stand adjourned until

        21       tomorrow, Tuesday, at 11:00 a.m.

        22                      (Whereupon at 6:30 p.m., the

        23       Senate adjourned.)