Regular Session - January 17, 1995

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                       January 17, 1995

        11                           3:05 p.m.

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        14                       REGULAR SESSION

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        18       LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY, President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order, please.  Would you please rise

         4       and repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (The assemblage repeated the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         7                      And now may we bow our heads for

         8       a moment of silence.

         9                      (A moment of silence was

        10       observed.)

        11                      The reading of the Journal,

        12       please.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        14       Saturday, January 14th.  The Senate met pursuant

        15       to adjournment, Senator Hoblock in the Chair

        16       upon designation of the Temporary President.

        17       The Journal of Friday, January 13th, was read

        18       and approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        20       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        21                      Presentation of petitions.

        22                      Messages from the Assembly.

        23                      Messages from the Governor.











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         1                      Reports of standing committees.

         2                      Reports of select committees.

         3                      Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                      Motions and resolutions.

         6                      I'd like to recognize Senator

         7       Bruno.

         8                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

         9       may we return to reports of standing committees?

        10       I believe we have a report from the Finance

        11       Committee.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        13       will read the report of the Finance Committee,

        14       please.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        16       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        17       following nomination:  George C. Sinnott of

        18       Clifton Park, State Civil Service Commission.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  I recognize

        20       Senator Bruno to move the nomination.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

        22       I do move the nomination of George C. Sinnott as

        23       President of the Civil Service Commission, and I











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         1       believe my colleague, Senator Dean Skelos, has

         2       some observations and comments.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Thank you very

         4       much, Senator Bruno.

         5                      I was delighted to hear of George

         6       Sinnott's appointment by our new Governor,

         7       Governor Pataki, for this position.  It's a

         8       great choice.

         9                      I want to give you a little bit

        10       of George Sinnott's background.  He's a

        11       decorated Vietnam veteran, served from 1966 to

        12       1968, was honorably discharged.  He's been a

        13       long-time public servant; 1974 to '86, town of

        14       Hempstead, finished as their director of

        15       personnel.  In Nassau County, he was also a

        16       director of personnel until moving to the Albany

        17       area to serve as a member of the New York State

        18       Employee Relations Board.  He then moved to

        19       Clifton Park from my district in Baldwin where

        20       his career has skyrocketed because of a

        21       particular Senator, who his -- he now

        22       represents, our Senate Majority Leader, Joe

        23       Bruno.











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         1                      Other achievements of George

         2       Sinnott, because George has always given back to

         3       the community.  He was the Baldwin Rotary Club

         4       president; Friends of Mercy Medical Center,

         5       board of directors, it's a hospital in my

         6       district; the Society of Friendly Sons of St.

         7       Patrick, he was a founding member.  They raise

         8       money for Mercy Hospital; and it goes on and on

         9       and on in all the professional associations that

        10       he's been a member of.

        11                      We've missed George in Nassau

        12       County because George, as director of personnel,

        13       went through some very difficult times when the

        14       county of Nassau was downsizing, but during

        15       those difficult times he treated all the

        16       employees of the county with respect and

        17       certainly all of those who were unfortunate

        18       enough to have to lose their job because of

        19       downsizing, he tried to work with them to find

        20       new jobs for them in the private sector and

        21       certainly to have counseling available for

        22       them.

        23                      We miss George in Nassau County,











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         1       and I know a lot of people are saying right now

         2       that, "George, you're lucky to get the

         3       commissioner's post", but it reminds me of a

         4       quote attributed to a very successful movie

         5       maker, Sam Goldwyn.  Mr. Goldwyn said, "The

         6       harder I work, the luckier I get."  This

         7       definitely applies to George, one of the hardest

         8       workers and one of the most gentle men that I

         9       have had the opportunity to know in my public

        10       career.

        11                      I want to congratulate George and

        12       his family and, if I could at this time,

        13       introduce his wife Judy; children Katie and Tim,

        14       who I've seen grow up over the years; his father

        15       Bill Sinnott, Sr., who came up from Florida; his

        16       brother is Bill Sinnott, Jr., who works for all

        17       of us here in the Senate; Bill's children, Mike

        18       and Laura, with a husband, Mike Cook; and, of

        19       course, George's other brother, Mike.  There are

        20       a lot of Mikes and Bills in the Sinnott family,

        21       but we welcome all of you and we thank you for

        22       being here with us on what I know is a very

        23       special day, not only for George but the entire











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         1       Sinnott family.

         2                      Thank you, Madam President.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

         4       Senator Skelos.

         5                      I'd like to recognize Senator

         6       Levy.

         7                      SENATOR LEVY:  Thank you very

         8       much, Madam President.

         9                      It's really a great honor and

        10       privilege to join with Senator Bruno and Senator

        11       Skelos in lauding George Sinnott.  He's been a

        12       friend of mine, as he has been Dean and the

        13       other representatives from Nassau County, for

        14       many, many years.  He compiled as the

        15       commissioner of personnel, not only in the town

        16       of Hempstead but most recently in Nassau County,

        17       an extraordinary record of achievement and

        18       accomplishment.

        19                      Let me just say again what I said

        20       in Finance.  The hallmark, the tradition and the

        21       legacy of the job George did in Nassau County in

        22       the town of Hempstead was openness.  He was pro

        23       gressive.  He was accessible.  He was respon











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         1       sible, and he just did the most outstanding

         2       job.  When he left in mid-1993, that was Nassau

         3       County's loss and New York State's gain.  I know

         4       he's going to do a great job, and I congratulate

         5       the Governor on this appointment.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

         7       Senator Levy.

         8                      Senator Mendez.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you, Madam

        10       President.

        11                      I also want to join in with my

        12       dear colleagues, Senator Bruno, Skelos and Levy,

        13       in -- in seconding the nomination of Mr.

        14       Sinnott.

        15                      I was very much impressed with

        16       his testimony in the Finance Committee, and as a

        17       minority person that I am -- I am Puerto Rican,

        18       as you know -- I was impressed with the kind of

        19       record that he achieved in Nassau County when he

        20       dealt -- when he opened up opportunities for

        21       Puerto Ricans, Hispanics and African-Americans

        22       to become part of government.  He changed the

        23       entire structure and was really the provider of











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         1       equal opportunity for the citizens of the area.

         2       I think that he has had -- as has been expressed

         3       before, he has had vast experience in government

         4       and in the area of personnel, and we all feel

         5       that he's highly capable and highly qualified

         6       and, therefore, we congratulate Mr. Sinnott and

         7       the Governor for coming up with such an

         8       appointment.

         9                      Thank you, Madam President.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        11       Senator Mendez.

        12                      Senator Tully.

        13                      SENATOR TULLY:  Yes, Madam

        14       President.

        15                      I rise to speak in behalf of the

        16       nominee.  He's a good friend of mine.  I've

        17       known him for many, many years when I served in

        18       Nassau County.  He's, in my opinion, the

        19       quintessential public servant.  He's always

        20       available.  He's accessible.  He's fair, treats

        21       people with equanimity.  He's dedicated,

        22       devoted, intelligent, every adjective that you

        23       could possibly think or ascribe to someone that











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         1       we would want to have represent us in dealings

         2       with the people that we serve, George Sinnott

         3       fits that adjective.

         4                      We missed him when he left Nassau

         5       County, but he hasn't gone very far.  He'll be

         6       here and he'll give a little bit of a touch of

         7       Nassau County to the rest of the state, and I

         8       couldn't think of anyone I'd want to represent

         9       our fair county than George Sinnott.

        10                      Lots of good luck, George.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        12       Senator Tully.

        13                      Senator Markowitz.

        14                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

        15       very much.

        16                        I have to admit, I don't know

        17       Mr. Sinnott at all, but one thing I do know -

        18       I've read his resume.  I heard him in committee

        19       today, and there's no question that the Governor

        20       has made a qualified appointment of someone that

        21       had the background and experience.

        22                      The part that interests me most,

        23       Senator Skelos, is that, as a member of the











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         1       Friendly Sons of St. Patrick, it is an honor for

         2       me as the Brooklyn Chair of the Loyal Legal

         3       Yiddish Sons of Erin to confirm this nomination

         4       and to wish him best wishes.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

         6                      Does any other member wish to be

         7       heard on the nomination?

         8                      Senator Bruno.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Madam

        10       President.

        11                      To Senator Levy, Senator Skelos

        12       and to the others, you're right, Nassau lost a

        13       great citizen, but Saratoga County, part of the

        14       43rd Senatorial District, gained a citizen as

        15       did the state, so I just want to echo the

        16       sentiments of what has been said here on behalf

        17       of George.

        18                      He truly has been an outstanding

        19       public servant.  He can be proud of his record

        20       and I'm sure his wife Judy and the children,

        21       Katie and Tim, look proud, as will be his

        22       father, Bill, who's here, and his brother

        23       George, who is a colleague and works with us











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         1       here in the Senate.

         2                      My congratulations to George, to

         3       his family, and wish you very, very well as you

         4       move forward now into a greater area of

         5       participation, using your expertise for public

         6       service as you have in the past.

         7                      Thank you.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

         9       Senator Bruno.

        10                      The question is on the

        11       confirmation of the nominee.  All those in

        12       favor?

        13                      (Response of "Aye".)

        14                      All those opposed, signify by

        15       saying nay.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The ayes have it.  George C.

        18       Sinnott is hereby confirmed as member of the

        19       Civil Service Commission and President.

        20                      (Applause.)

        21                      The Secretary will read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        23       from the Committee on Finance, reports the











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         1       nomination of John E. Sweeney, of Schaghticoke,

         2       as Commissioner of Labor.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Madam

         4       President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  I'd like to

         6       recognize Senator Bruno to move the nomination.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, Madam

         8       President, I have a motion I would like to be

         9       heard.  I believe I was on the floor with -

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Sorry.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

        12                      I want to move at this time -

        13                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

        14       excuse me.  Who has the floor?  Who has the

        15       floor?

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Bruno.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Who has the

        18       floor?

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  I believe Senator

        20       Bruno has the floor.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right.

        22       Then, Madam President, I'd ask to be

        23       recognized.  I understand he has the floor, but











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         1       I have the right, I believe, to be recognized.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Before we place

         3       the name in nomination, Senator?

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, because I

         5       have a motion.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I defer to

         7       Senator -

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you,

        10       Senator Bruno.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Bruno

        12       yields the floor.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Madam

        14       President, thank you.

        15                      I want to move to lay the

        16       nomination on the table for a week and direct

        17       the Labor and Finance Committee in the interim

        18       to hold public hearings on Mr. Sweeney as the

        19       Governor's nominee for the position of

        20       Commissioner of Labor, and I'd like to be heard

        21       on the motion, Madam Chairman -- I mean, Madam

        22       President.

        23                      I'm making this motion because I











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         1       think that we're acting in undue haste without

         2       giving -

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Sir, excuse me.

         4       I believe this is a non-debatable motion, so we

         5       should take a vote on it.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  That's correct.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Ask for your name

         8        -- slow roll call, you want your name called.

         9       Ask your name be called.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right,

        11       Madam -- Madam President.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion of

        13       Senator Leichter, all those in favor -

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just a second,

        15       Madam President.  I think it's important that we

        16       have an opportunity to discuss this, and I would

        17       ask the indulgence of the Majority because I

        18       think certainly you would want to understand why

        19       I make this motion.  I will keep it very brief

        20       and maybe somebody will want to respond, but I

        21       think that we ought to -- we ought to debate

        22       this, not just do it by a slow roll call but to

        23       just debate it briefly, if we can.











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         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  I'm going to

         2       recess for five minutes to discuss this.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President

         4        -- Madam President -- Madam President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  This chamber has

         7       established rules, and we function by those

         8       rules, and the rules are such that state -- and,

         9       Senator, you know the rules as well as I do -

        10       you make your statement.  It is not debatable.

        11       We should vote, and then a name will be placed

        12       in nomination and then you have an opportunity

        13       to make whatever comments at whatever length you

        14       so desire.

        15                      Now, those are the rules of the

        16       chamber presently.  If we want to change the

        17       rules, we ought to take that up at a later time,

        18       but I would ask your indulgence in allowing me

        19       to place the name in nomination and following

        20       the rules of procedure here in the Senate.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator Bruno,

        22       I have no objection in doing it.  You want to

        23       place the name in nomination, that's fine.  Then











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         1       let me make my motion, and maybe that's the way

         2       it should have been done.  You're absolutely

         3       correct.  And then I would just ask an

         4       opportunity to make a few comments on why I have

         5       made the motion, maybe somebody wants to

         6       respond, and then we'll go to a vote.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  First, I'd like

         8       to recognize Senator Bruno.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Madam

        10       President.

        11                      And it's with great pleasure that

        12       I move the nomination of John Sweeney as

        13       Commissioner of Labor for New York State.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Leichter.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  At this time,

        16       thank you, Madam President.  Thank you, Senator

        17       Bruno.

        18                      I think we are now proceeding in

        19       a proper order, and the whole idea and purpose

        20       of my motion is to have us proceed in a proper

        21       order, to have us carry out our constitutional

        22       duty to give informed consent, not just consent,

        23       but to give informed consent to the Governor's











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         1       nominations.

         2                      I'm afraid that we have not done

         3       the background check, that we have not looked

         4       into this nominee's experience, that we have not

         5       given an opportunity for the public to be heard

         6       on what is an extremely important nomination,

         7       and for that reason at this point, I make a

         8       motion to lay the nomination on the table for

         9       one week and in the interim direct the Committee

        10       on Finance and the Committee on Labor to hold

        11       hearings on this nomination.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion of

        13       Senator Leichter -- Senator Bruno, would you

        14       like to be recognized?

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I was going to

        16       suggest that we have a vote on this motion at

        17       this time, Madam President.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

        19                      On the motion of Senator

        20       Leichter.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  On the roll call,











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         1       I would just like my name called when it's

         2       appropriate.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  On the motion of

         4       Senator Leichter, all those in favor, aye -- say

         5       aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Madam President.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  All those in

         9       favor say nay.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Madam President.

        11                      (Response of "Nay".)

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Madam President.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes, Senator

        14       Gold.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  I ask my name be

        16       called, so I can explain my vote.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Gold.

        18                      SENATOR WALDON:  And Senator

        19       Waldon.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Madam President,

        21       the confirmation process is not a game.  It's a

        22       constitutional mandate.  I'll say it again, it's

        23       a constitutional mandate, and way back when











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         1       there was a fellow named Rockefeller, who was

         2       the Governor of this state and I came to the

         3       Senate, I suggested that we ought to take that

         4       very seriously.  Nobody paid attention.  Then a

         5       crazy thing happened.  Hugh Carey got elected

         6       governor and some of my Republican friends came

         7       over to me and said, "You know, Manny, that idea

         8       you had about taking the confirmation process

         9       seriously?  It's a good idea.  We're going to do

        10       it now."

        11                      Well, I'm telling you, it was a

        12       good idea then for Carey, it was a good idea for

        13       Cuomo, and it's a good idea today, too.

        14                      Now, I understand that there are

        15       people in this house, and our Majority Leader

        16       particularly, who are very friendly with the new

        17       Governor, and the new Governor is entitled to

        18       have his cabinet; the new Governor is entitled

        19       to his chance, but the process is important.  I

        20       have seen the United States Senate in Democratic

        21       hands with Democratic Senators or vice versa,

        22       and they take the job seriously.  Confirmation

        23       is serious.











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         1                      Now, you're talking about a job

         2       here, the Commissioner of Labor, which affects

         3       the lives of millions of people that live in

         4       this state.  The normal procedure would be for

         5       the Committee to hold a hearing, to reach out.

         6       Somebody said to me, "Gee, what's Labor's

         7       position on this?  Do we have any memos here?"

         8       There ought to be.  I can't believe it.  We have

         9       somebody being nominated for the Commissioner of

        10       Labor, and I saw one memo, I think some fire

        11       organization, but can you believe there aren't

        12       memos?  And in my opinion, there should have

        13       been an outreaching.  The chairman of the

        14       Committee should want to know what these people

        15       think and, if the only thing these people can

        16       think is that they don't want to say anything,

        17       that ought to raise a question too.

        18                      But what is more important is

        19       that I understand that there are rumblings and

        20       rumors here about this gentleman, and I don't

        21       think that's fair.  It's not fair.

        22                      I think Mr. Sweeney is entitled

        23       to an open debate in an open discussion and to











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         1       have all these questions answered, and there's a

         2       proper way to do it.  We have had nominees come

         3       before the Senate before who -- where there have

         4       been sensitive issues here and there, and we've

         5       always done it as ladies and gentlemen and

         6       protected people's reputations and done it

         7       properly.

         8                      Now, there are other nominees of

         9       the Governor.  I don't know whether hearings are

        10       scheduled.  I don't think we have to find out at

        11       the last minute, but we came in today to Finance

        12       and the agenda which I hope somebody has, says

        13       we were taking these people subject to the

        14       substantive committees taking a look at them.

        15       We didn't even know at that point when the

        16       hearings would be, wouldn't be, or whatever.

        17       It's a bad practice.  George Pataki is entitled

        18       to better; Sweeney is entitled to better, and

        19       more importantly, we're entitled to better.

        20                      Now, Senator Bruno started this

        21       session by saying he was making major reforms

        22       and I said when asked about it, "Terrific!" I'm

        23       not playing a partisan game.  It's terrific but,











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         1       Senator Bruno, don't undercut yourself in the

         2       second week of session.  I mean, you were at the

         3       committee meetings.  Senator Franz Leichter was

         4       asking important questions, and you -- I don't

         5       know whether you thought he was finished or not,

         6       but at 20 after 1:00 you were ready to cut it -

         7       cut it off at that point.  And why?

         8                      I don't think Sweeney has any...

         9        Mr. Sweeney has anything to hide.  I certainly

        10       hope not, but this process has to be decent.

        11                      Senator Bruno, I say it in public

        12       again, you have my congratulations for the

        13       reforms that you're making, but people are

        14       funny.  When it comes to the positives, they

        15       forget those pretty quick, and the negatives

        16       they remember a long time.  Don't tarnish what

        17       you're trying to do by creating a process which

        18       makes a joke of a constitutional mandate.

        19                      Franz Leichter is absolutely

        20       correct.  We're allowed to be correct once in a

        21       while, and I think, for the sake of Mr. Sweeney,

        22       that the motion should be supported.  I think,

        23       for the sake of Mr. Sweeney, we shouldn't even











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         1       have to have the motion, that your side of the

         2       aisle should stand up and say, "You know, we

         3       have faith in this man.  George Pataki nominated

         4       him and we have faith in him, and his nomination

         5       can stand up for one more week without going

         6       down the toilet." Or can it?

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  I vote to support

         9       the motion.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  I would like to

        11       remind the body that -

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Was I more than

        13       two minutes?

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Excellent

        15       explanation, and I would like to recognize

        16       Senator Waldon.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        18       much, Madam President.

        19                      As many of you in this chamber

        20       know, my background is law enforcement and from

        21       that background one is able to sometimes hear

        22       things.  I would like to encourage us to listen

        23       to the rumblings that some of us have heard and











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         1       to give Mr. Sweeney the fairest of opportunities

         2       to make sure that he enters into his position as

         3       Labor Commissioner that is the will of this

         4       body, untarnished, and so I would hope that Mr.

         5       Bruno, our leader, in his wisdom, would

         6       recognize that there are some things sub rosa

         7       that need to be addressed and that we would

         8       adhere to the request by Senator Leichter and

         9       table this motion until a later date.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        11       Senator Waldon.

        12                      Senator Abate.

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  I had the

        14       privilege to be a member of the Labor Committee

        15       to hear the prospective commissioner, and I was

        16       comfortable in voting yes, but I'm uncomfortable

        17       in moving this process forward because there was

        18       some information that was shared in the Finance

        19       Committee that was not shared in the Labor

        20       Committee, and what we're discussing today

        21       really doesn't have much to do about John

        22       Sweeney.  It has to do about the integrity of

        23       the process.  We should never walk away and say,











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         1       "Let's not hear any more," because I think John

         2       Sweeney would say, "I have confidence about my

         3       background, my capacity.  I don't want to go on

         4       to this position with people feeling that I'm

         5       less than adequate."

         6                      So, although I was -- voted yes

         7       for his confirmation, I think now it's very

         8       important -- the issue is bigger than Sweeney.

         9       The issue is the integrity of our confirmation.

        10       Let's table it.  Let's air these rumors, what's

        11       being discussed in one committee not aired at

        12       another, and I vote for the motion.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        14       Senator Abate.

        15                      Senator Lack.

        16                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

        17       President.

        18                      I must say it's interesting how

        19       the worm turns.  I have been in this Senate now

        20       for 17 sessions.  I have confirmed in my nine

        21       years as Chair of the Senate Labor Committee

        22       three commissioners.  All of them were done in

        23       the exact same process that this gentleman is











                                                              127

         1       being confirmed.  There was a hearing before the

         2       Labor Committee.  There was a hearing before the

         3       Finance Committee.  All the nominees came,

         4       spoke, talked about their credentials, labor

         5       opinion was sought.

         6                      Now, I haven't been chairman of

         7       Labor in the last year, but I still know an

         8       awful lot of people in organized labor in this

         9       state and the only phone calls I've had is that

        10       it's a good appointment and when we get on the

        11       main subject, which is the confirmation of Mr.

        12       Sweeney, I certainly plan to talk on that; but I

        13       must say how surprised I am that suddenly

        14       there's a Republican Governor and members of our

        15       Minority stand up, the same members who have

        16       been sitting at the same confirmation

        17       proceedings that I have all these years when

        18       it's been Democrat governors of this state

        19       putting forth the nominees, and not one of them

        20        -- not one of you has ever stood up and said,

        21       "Wait a minute.  Why is this process going so

        22       fast?  Who is this person?  Why wasn't there a

        23       public hearing held for this nominee?"











                                                              128

         1                      I'm going to tell you, in my nine

         2       years of chairing the Senate Labor Committee, I

         3       never, ever for any of Governor Carey -- excuse

         4       me -- Governor Cuomo's nominees held what you're

         5       calling for, a public hearing, other than a

         6       hearing before the Standing Committee on Labor.

         7       If I made a mistake all those years, I'm sorry

         8       none of you ever stood up then and told me about

         9       it.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I think what

        12       we have here is the concept of time impinging

        13       upon the concept of judge... of justice.

        14                      Some of the appointments that

        15       have been made in the past, some of those that

        16       were just referred to, occurred over a process

        17       of weeks.  In one case it took two and a half

        18       months.  In fact, one of the nominees was not

        19       confirmed.

        20                      So I think that Senator Gold's

        21       remarks just a moment ago were really the

        22       preeminent remarks that we could be listening to

        23       today.  The most unfair that this chamber could











                                                              129

         1       be would be to be that way to its own nominees.

         2       To raise people's names such that they may be

         3       appointed to high positions and then let them be

         4       appointed in such a cloud of uncertainty is most

         5       unfair to the candidates, diminishes the process

         6       and, unfortunately, does not satisfy the

         7       directive of advise and consent advised to us by

         8       the Constitution.

         9                      And so Senator Leichter's motion

        10       is a motion about process, not about people, and

        11       what we're actually talking about is a process

        12       that started this Friday afternoon.  The next

        13       business day was today.  There was a Labor

        14       Committee meeting at 11:00 a.m.  There was a

        15       Finance Committee meeting at noon.  This is not

        16       enough time.

        17                      Now, I think that what the

        18       Governor may be trying to do is very merited.

        19       We are trying in this age of tabloid journalism

        20       and sensational television not to let people's

        21       personal business be bandied about in the media

        22       such that it hurts their reputations when, in

        23       fact, they may not have done something wrong,











                                                              130

         1       but to speed the process to this extent is

         2       actually creating the impression that they have

         3       done something wrong when perhaps they have

         4       not.

         5                      So I would just like to add this

         6       one element to our conversation, which is that

         7       in 1975 Governor Carey made an appointment.  The

         8       man's name was Schwartz.  He actually served in

         9       the -- as the -- performed the duties of the

        10       agency that he was appointed to for nearly a

        11       year and was not confirmed by this New York

        12       State Senate.

        13                      So I ask my colleagues on the

        14       other side of the aisle, what is the rush?  In

        15       other words, if there's a matter that is so

        16       important that the Commissioner of Labor should

        17       address, let's let him address it right now.

        18       There's precedent for this.  It's been done

        19       before, but the confirmation proceeding which is

        20       so precious as it is defined in our Constitution

        21       is something that we have to confer and

        22       deliberate and do with all deliberate speed.

        23                      So I have a feeling, Senator











                                                              131

         1       Leichter, that your motion isn't going to pass

         2       and maybe that will be the case, but what I

         3       would like to advise all of us here is that we

         4       in the Minority are not going to take the

         5       responsibility for anything that may come out of

         6       today's proceedings that it would be said later

         7       that this body should have known.  Anything that

         8       happens from this point on is going to be the

         9       responsibility of anyone that wants to move a

        10       nomination that, in our opinion, had it been

        11       held, we would have probably confirmed a

        12       deserving individual to a post.

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Madam President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Hannon.

        15                      SENATOR HANNON:  I would just

        16       like to speak in opposition and explain my

        17       vote.

        18                      I think it's absolutely

        19       outrageous that people would try to change the

        20       rules of the game after we've already started.

        21       Senator Leichter has always been one who could

        22       speak up.  He's alway been one who could study

        23       an issue, issue reports.  I never saw any type











                                                              132

         1       of report that gave rise to the advise and

         2       consent procedure and need to change it.

         3                      I would suggest they have other

         4       motivations that would lead to this last minute

         5       attempt, and I think it's outrageous that you,

         6       Senator Waldon, would have any sense of an

         7       innuendo that would be attached to your

         8       remarks.  I don't think it has any place in this

         9       process, and I think your reasons for coming up

        10       with this motion have little to do with the

        11       procedure and more to trying to change the

        12       results of what happened last November.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Madam

        14       President.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  I recognize

        16       Senator Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, to

        18       explain my vote, Madam President.  I just want

        19       to answer Senator Hannon and also Senator Lack.

        20                      What we're objecting to, Senator,

        21       is that you're changing the rules of the game.

        22       The rules of the game are that there is due

        23       deliberation.  What you're doing is railroading











                                                              133

         1       through nominations without a chance of public

         2       discussion, public airing or even giving members

         3       of the Senate and the responsible committees an

         4       opportunity to inquire into facts and to be

         5       heard.

         6                      Senator Lack, let me just point

         7       out to you that the last time there was a change

         8       of administration in the state house from

         9       Senator -- I mean, from Governor Wilson to

        10       Governor Carey, this was the date of the

        11       confirmations by this Senate, run by the

        12       Republican Majority.  There was one confirmation

        13       in January, Commissioner of Division of Criminal

        14       Justice.  The next confirmation was March 4th,

        15       the Commissioner of Transportation, the

        16       Commissioner of Environmental Conservation.  The

        17       next confirmation was on March 18th, the

        18       Secretary of State, one Mario Cuomo -- and then

        19       there were a couple of others in March, then

        20       there was some in April.  Then we had to wait

        21        'til June to get to the Superintendent of

        22       Insurance, the Commissioner of Mental Hygiene,

        23       and so on.  We're asking that you stick -











                                                              134

         1                      SENATOR DALY:  Will the Senator

         2       yield?

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Daly.

         4                      SENATOR DALY:  Will the Senator

         5       yield?

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I can't in a

         7       roll call.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter,

         9       will you yield for a moment?

        10                      SENATOR DALY:  Excuse me.  Just

        11       want to debate it.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, all

        13       we're asking is that you do it the same way for

        14       Republican nominees as you do it for Democratic

        15       nominees.  We're asking you to stick to the

        16       rule.  We're not asking you to change the rules;

        17       we're asking for fairness.  We're asking for the

        18       openness that the Majority Leader has committed

        19       himself to, and all we're suggesting is one week

        20       and public hearings.  Is that asking too much?

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        22       Senator Leichter.

        23                      A point of clarification.











                                                              135

         1                      Senator Stafford, I'm sorry.  I

         2       didn't see you.

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President

         4        -- Madam President, I owe the $10, Madam

         5       President.  I just want to point out that during

         6       the Finance meeting today, some said that I use

         7       these fancy phrases.  Well, I have one for

         8       this.  It's in good -- I say it in -- nothing

         9       serious -

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford,

        11       could you please speak into the mike so we can

        12       all hear you?  Can you speak louder?

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Oh, I'm

        14       sorry.  But this is generally, this isn't any

        15       one individual, but I can say this "gall" could

        16       be divided into three parts, and I think there

        17       would be what you think I'm going to say.

        18                      This nomination had the same

        19       treatment as nomination after nomination the

        20       last 20 years.  I was very pleased when there

        21       had been a report, as there has been a report

        22       here, and it was stated there's nothing in the

        23       background examination that would make it











                                                              136

         1       impossible for this person to serve.  We have

         2       that.  We had the Labor meeting.

         3                      We all know that, when we start

         4       talking about public hearings on our nomina

         5       tions, we have the meeting of the committee that

         6       has jurisdiction for the area where the person

         7       is being appointed, and then we have a Finance

         8       meeting.

         9                      I want to tell everyone that has

        10       joined us in the Finance meetings that we

        11       appreciate the attendance on both sides of the

        12       aisle for these excellent appointments that our

        13       Governor is making, and I would just say that

        14       there's nothing out of the ordinary here.  We

        15       have an excellent nominee, and procedure was

        16       followed.

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        19       Senator Stafford.

        20                      Now, please, I'd like to

        21       recognize Senator Spano first.  He's been

        22       waiting a long time.

        23                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you, Madam











                                                              137

         1       President.

         2                      As the Chairman of the Labor

         3       Committee, I think maybe I should respond in

         4       terms of some of the questions of the process,

         5       but I would first note that it's funny that this

         6       question was raised as we consider the

         7       Governor's nominee for the Department of Labor

         8       that wasn't raised as we just finished the

         9       process for the Commissioner of Civil Service.

        10       So that tells me that there's some additional

        11       motivation on behalf of the Minority when it

        12       comes to this appointment.

        13                      But let me tell you, over the

        14       last couple of weeks since the Governor made it

        15       known that he was going to select John Sweeney

        16       to be his nominee in the Department of Labor, I

        17       immediately reached out to organized labor in

        18       this state.  The commissioner designee was

        19       available to meet with the president of the

        20       AFL-CIO, called and wanted to make a courtesy

        21       visit.  He was out of town.  He did have an

        22       opportunity to meet with two of the executive

        23       vice-presidents and two of the directors of the











                                                              138

         1       AFL-CIO.  The chairman of the Public Employee

         2       Conference, who is also Chairman of the -

         3       President of the Upstate Professional Fire

         4       Fighters, have written in favor of the

         5       Governor's nominee.

         6                      I have not heard from one single

         7       member of organized labor in this state who has

         8       been in opposition to John Sweeney, nor were

         9       they in opposition to the process.  I reached

        10       out to organized labor and said that we were

        11       going to have a meeting today, asked them to be

        12       present, asked them to let us know if there were

        13       any views or questions that they would have

        14       liked to have asked of the Commissioner.  They

        15       did give us some questions that they wanted to

        16       have asked.  They were part of the process.  Not

        17       one of them have objected.  Not one of the

        18       members of the Minority have objected to me in

        19       terms of the process, including the ranking

        20       Democrat on the Committee who I had an

        21       opportunity to speak to last week and advised

        22       the members of the Committee how we were going

        23       to do this.











                                                              139

         1                      If you remember, we talked -- and

         2       Senator Leichter may talk about the process in

         3       terms of the last three Labor Commissioners.

         4       You might notice that the last three Labor

         5       Commissioners were confirmed within two weeks of

         6       their nomination by the Governor.  As I -- when

         7       I chaired the Mental Health and Developmental

         8       Disabilities Committee, the last appointment, we

         9       confirmed in one day, Commissioner Tom Maul,

        10       that was sent to us by Governor Cuomo.  In one

        11       day we had a hearing, a Committee meeting -- a

        12       committee meeting/hearing and moved forward on

        13       the Senate floor after the deliberations by the

        14       Senate Finance Committee.

        15                      All of the background checks -

        16       Senator Gold, as you mentioned, all the

        17       background checks on this nominee were fully

        18       looked into.  All the BCI checks, all of that is

        19       is completed.  All of that has been presented to

        20       us.  All of his financial statements have been

        21       made available to the members of this house for

        22       your review.  All of that has been there.

        23                      We don't take this as a game.  We











                                                              140

         1       take the confirmation process very, very

         2       seriously, and I think that we should defeat

         3       Senator Leichter's motion, take a look at it for

         4       where it stands and move forward to talk about

         5       the accomplishments and the positive qualities

         6       of the Governor's nominee.

         7                      Thank you, Madam President.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

         9                      Senator Maltese.

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Madam

        11       President, these are tumultuous times.  We have

        12       just seen cataclysmic changes in New York and in

        13       national politics.  We must move, yes, with

        14       prudence, but we must move quickly.  We have a

        15       new Governor after so many years of a different

        16       administration.  We have many changes in

        17       government that must be made.  They will not be

        18       made with foot-dragging or if obstructionists

        19       interfere with the process in the naming of

        20       candidates to hold these offices that would give

        21       our new Governor and Lieutenant Governor the

        22       opportunity to govern.  We cannot allow or

        23       permit obstructionists to interfere with this











                                                              141

         1       process.

         2                      This nominee is someone who has

         3       been in public life for more than 15 years, a

         4       member of the bar.  This is not some person who

         5       is unknown.  It is a person with a statewide

         6       reputation, and the reputation is a good one.

         7                      Madam President, I feel that

         8       these objections are vain entreaties to turn

         9       back an electoral process that began in November

        10       and that resulted in the election of a new

        11       administration.  We will proceed.  We should

        12       proceed expeditiously and prudently.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        14       Senator Maltese.

        15                      Senator Connor.

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Madam

        17       President.

        18                      You know, Senator Spano correctly

        19       points out that there seems to be no opposition

        20       from organized labor to this nominee.  I had my

        21       staff check on Friday to ascertain that, but the

        22       point really -- and why is there a difference

        23       between Mr. -- the prior nominee to the Civil











                                                              142

         1       Service Commission and this one?  It's quite

         2       simple.

         3                      There were a couple of questions

         4       that members wanted to ask based on information

         5       they were given in the Finance Committee, and

         6       they clearly feel they were precluded from

         7       pursuing the line of questioning.

         8                      Now, a more -- perhaps even a

         9       better process would allow Mr. Sweeney to meet

        10       with some concerned members and discuss some of

        11       these things.  That's what a week would do.

        12       There was -- there were simply a couple of open

        13       questions raised by the information provided and

        14       the process -- a weakness, as I see it, in the

        15       process, and this should concern members of both

        16       sides of the aisle, is that the same information

        17       is by custom in this house not made available to

        18       the members in the substantive committee as is

        19       made available to the members in the Finance

        20       Committee, thus producing an anomaly such as a

        21       member of both committees going in at 11:00

        22       o'clock in the morning, everything seems fine,

        23       and voting for the nominee and then going to the











                                                              143

         1       Finance Committee and receiving more information

         2       and saying, "I'm not comfortable pursuing this

         3       course of approval at this time."

         4                      I suggest we look at that

         5       procedure.  And the fact to say this is the

         6       procedure we always had, is just not quite

         7       true.  Usually, and there are exceptions, there

         8       was more advance notice of the committee

         9       meetings.  To receive a call late on Thursday,

        10       "Can you get your members here first thing

        11       Tuesday morning after a holiday meeting?  We're

        12       going to do some nominations."  To not get -

        13       and as I understand the process, a designee of

        14       the ranking Minority member on Finance goes and

        15       looks at all the background documentation and

        16       reports.  That wasn't available until Friday

        17       afternoon before a three-day weekend and, lo and

        18       behold, the process not only began Tuesday

        19       morning but was expected to conclude some time

        20       in the early afternoon on the same day.

        21                      And I don't think anyone really

        22       wants at this time to oppose Mr. Sweeney's

        23       nomination, but I think if you don't just it off











                                                              144

         1       for a week, some people will do that undoubtedly

         2       because they do have questions -- they do have

         3       questions, and you in the Majority taught us so

         4       well that deliberation matters in discharging

         5       this constitutional function.  The time does

         6       matter.

         7                      I don't -- and I may have

         8       informally met him.  I don't recall ever having

         9       met Mr. Sweeney.  I suggest -- and I'm venturing

        10       a suggestion without knowing the answer, but I

        11       have a feeling that the introductions that

        12       Senator Spano talked about occurred rather

        13       recently, perhaps the end of last week, and I

        14       just think that we need more time.

        15                      I recall I was on the Labor

        16       Committee many, many years ago when Senator Levy

        17       was the chair and the Governor, Governor Carey,

        18       sent over a nominee who was deemed to be too

        19       political, and I believe the hearings went on

        20       for four months before the nominee withdrew.

        21       So, I mean there was precedent for

        22       deliberation.  We are asking for a week.

        23                      Now, the one thing I want to say,











                                                              145

         1       Madam President -

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Point of order.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  -- Senator Bruno

         4       assured me that in the future we would have at

         5       least a week's notice for these nominees, so I

         6       assume since today is Tuesday and we've received

         7       no notice, that we won't have any of these

         8       nominees next Monday or Tuesday.  I hope I'm

         9       right in thinking that.

        10                      Thank you, Madam President.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  I would like to

        12       recognize Senator Bruno.

        13                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

        14       would you announce the vote on Senator

        15       Leichter's motion?

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.  Senator

        17       Leichter's motion to table was defeated by a

        18       voice vote.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is

        21       on the confirmation of the nominee.

        22                      Senator Bruno.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Madam











                                                              146

         1       President.

         2                      On the confirmation of the

         3       nominee, John Sweeney, I think, Madam President,

         4       you are witnessing a debate here that very much

         5       represents the difference between the past and

         6       the present.

         7                      In the past, we many times in

         8       government forgot that we are here to serve the

         9       people of this state, not necessarily a process

        10       to our own liking or our own making and that we

        11       change the rules as we go along, as my honored

        12       colleagues in speaking totally ignore the rule

        13       of a two-minute -- two-minute rule when you

        14       speak, totally ignoring that because it suits

        15       them.  If we want to follow the procedures,

        16       Senator, let's follow the procedures.  But what

        17       we're talking about here today is governing with

        18       a new administration, an administration that

        19       recognized that last week it was critical to

        20       just a Secretary of State in place so that

        21       person could be of service to the public.

        22                      The administration recognizes

        23       that Civil Service, protecting the rights of











                                                              147

         1       people of this state, is critically important.

         2       Consequently, we expedite that nomination.  And

         3       what is more important to the people of this

         4       state than jobs, protection of labor in this

         5       state?  In my mind, nothing.  And that's the

         6       major difference between the past and the

         7       present.  There's a recognition that jobs, the

         8       economy of this state is the most important

         9       thing when you want to deal with the health and

        10       welfare of the people of this state.

        11                      So, Madam President, I am honored

        12       that John Sweeney, here in this chamber, is

        13       presented to us for confirmation because he

        14       represents, through his heritage, a father who

        15       knew what it was to labor, who struggled to

        16       protect labor, founded a labor union and became

        17       its president.

        18                      Now, that's living, and that's

        19       experience in the real world of dealing with

        20       people.  That's what John Sweeney brings.  He's

        21       been in public service for years, years.  Stop

        22       DWI program for ten years in Rensselaer County.

        23       He did an outstanding job, a job that he can be











                                                              148

         1       proud of, and that I am proud of and the rest of

         2       the constituents in Rensselaer County are proud

         3       of.  He is a professional in every sense of the

         4       word.

         5                      Is he aggressive?  Yes, he is.

         6       Is he effective?  Yes, he is.  Will he be

         7       effective in serving the people of this state?

         8       Yes, he will.  He will move the agenda forward

         9       on behalf of labor and the public, and he will

        10       recognize that the most critical thing in this

        11       state is that people have an opportunity to work

        12       and work fairly.

        13                      So, by heritage, by background,

        14       by experience, by disposition, he's as qualified

        15       as anyone could be, and I'm honored to support

        16       his nomination, and recognize his beautiful

        17       children, Kelly, John and Mary, that are here

        18       with John, and welcome them to the chamber and,

        19       colleagues, I can assure you that a personal

        20       relationship with John Sweeney as he has worked

        21       professionally, and he is a true professional,

        22       and to those that are concerned, he will

        23       represent the people of this state, and that's











                                                              149

         1       all of the people in this state, as he goes

         2       forward in discharging his responsibilities as

         3       the Commissioner of Labor.

         4                      Thank you, Madam President.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

         6       Senator Bruno.

         7                      I'd like to recognize Senator

         8       Spano.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Madam President,

        10       do you have a list of speakers?

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.

        12                      SENATOR SPANO:  Do you have a

        13       list?

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.

        15                      SENATOR SPANO:  Can you put me at

        16       the end of the list to close?

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Nozzolio.

        19                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Madam

        20       President, I rise in support of this

        21       nomination.

        22                      One of the most remarkable men

        23       I've ever known was a man who, at one time, held











                                                              150

         1       the position that this appointment is about.

         2       Martin P. Catherwood, during the mid-1950s, was

         3       Labor Commissioner for New York State.  He was

         4       commissioner during a time when there was great

         5       job growth and development, when New York was a

         6       state that was moving, when New York was a state

         7       that held the beacon for other states in

         8       economic development.  So well thought of was

         9       Martin Catherwood that a library at the New York

        10       State School of Industrial and Labor Relations

        11       at Cornell University was named after him.

        12                      I'm a graduate of that school,

        13       and I had the privilege of working with Dr.

        14       Catherwood while I was a student there, and I

        15       can say very strongly when I saw this nomination

        16       of John Sweeney to be our new Commissioner of

        17       Labor, that I thought back to Dr. Catherwood and

        18       how John Sweeney will be the same type of Labor

        19       Commissioner and will do great things in

        20       bringing New York back to the job development/

        21       job creation state that it once was.

        22                      I'm also very pleased, as Senator

        23       Bruno mentioned, that John's roots are in the











                                                              151

         1       labor movement, with a dad who knew what it was

         2       like to work hard to put bread on the table, who

         3       sought a better life for his children through

         4       work and through the labor movement.  We have in

         5       this nominee, Madam President and my colleagues,

         6       one with great character.

         7                      I don't know if there's a library

         8       yet ready for the nominee's name, but who knows,

         9       by the time he is done in service to the state

        10       of New York in this very important job, there

        11       just may be, and I welcome this appointment and

        12       am proud to speak on behalf of the nomination.

        13                      Thank you, Madam President.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

        15                      Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Madam

        17       President, could I ask through the Majority

        18       Leader whether there would be somebody who could

        19       answer a couple of questions about this

        20       nominee?  I don't know whether it's appropriate

        21       to ask the Labor -- Chairman of the Labor

        22       Committee or Senator Bruno himself.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.











                                                              152

         1                      (Senator Spano nods head.)

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through you,

         3       Madam President, to the Chairman of the Labor

         4       Committee.

         5                      I'd like to focus on a couple of

         6       things.  One, do you know if anyone conducted an

         7       evaluation of this nominee's qualifications to

         8       hold this position and, if so, what was the

         9       result of that evaluation?

        10                      SENATOR SPANO:  In conversations

        11       we've had, number one -- in conversations that

        12       we have had with the Governor's office, they

        13       advised me that they did a very thorough check

        14       in a number of extensive conversations with the

        15       nominee in terms of what his positions were

        16       about restoring the state's economy, understand

        17       ing the need for the state Department of Labor

        18       to get involved in both the protection of the

        19       workers as well as the corporate sector in this

        20       state.

        21                      We have had -- I have had a

        22       number of extensive conversations with the

        23       Governor's designee with respect to his vision











                                                              153

         1       and the way he sees the future as it revolves

         2       around the Department of Labor, and I'm very,

         3       very comfortable, Senator Dollinger, that a

         4       number of probably hours worth of extensive

         5       research and conversations and interviews went

         6       into this process.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         8       you, Madam President.

         9                      Do you know, Senator, whether

        10       anyone looked at Section 21 of the Labor Law

        11       which defines the job duties of the Commissioner

        12       of Labor, and compared the nominee's job

        13       experience with those qualifications?

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        15                      SENATOR SPANO:  I -- I did take,

        16       as a matter of fact, a look at the copy of the

        17       Labor Law just last night, took a look at and

        18       had conversations with the Governor's designee,

        19       and as the Chairman of the Labor Committee -- I

        20       can only answer for myself, Senator Dollinger -

        21       I feel very, very comfortable that he can do the

        22       job as it is set forth in the statute as well as

        23       we would be -- expect him to perform on behalf











                                                              154

         1       of the working men and women of the state.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again,

         3       through you, Madam President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         5       Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Can you just

         7       enlighten me which of the 12 criteria that this

         8       Legislature said include the powers of

         9       Commissioner of Labor, which of those 12

        10       criteria this nominee has any experience in?

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        12                      SENATOR SPANO:  When you look at

        13       the nominee's background, you look at the fact

        14       that he has been an attorney.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  For how

        16       long?

        17                      SENATOR SPANO:  He's been

        18       involved both in public and private practice for

        19        -- how many years?  I'm not sure.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I believe,

        21       three.

        22                      SENATOR SPANO:  He is a person

        23       who has had a background in labor, and it was











                                                              155

         1       discussed that he was raised in a union

         2       household, and when you look at our previous

         3       nominees, look back at John Hudacs, who was a

         4       career government employee who was appointed by

         5       the Governor to head the Department of Labor; we

         6       look at Lillian Roberts, who was vice-president

         7       of a labor union, who was appointed by the

         8       Governor; if we look at Philip Ross, who was an

         9       academic, every one of those, Senator Dollinger,

        10       if you look through the listings in the statute,

        11       you will not be able to line up the appropriate,

        12       as you might deem, necessary background to match

        13       up each of those positions, but each one of them

        14        -- each one of them served us well.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I guess my

        16       question -

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        18       Dollinger.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  My question,

        20       again through you, Madam President, if the

        21       Senator would continue to yield is that, clear

        22       ly, if you were evaluating the qualifications

        23       for someone, you would look for some correlation











                                                              156

         1       between the past experience and the 12 statutory

         2       responsibilities that we created for the

         3       Commissioner of Labor in the Labor Law.  This is

         4       the law that we'll ask him to enforce.

         5                      I can't find anything on these

         6       two pieces of paper which suggest that he's ever

         7       done any of the things mentioned in this book.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  My previous

        10       comments I think should stand by -- addition

        11       ally, I think one of the mandates that was

        12       presented to us and to the Governor in last

        13       November was the fact that business as usual is

        14       bad business, and people are looking for us

        15       maybe to do things a little differently as

        16       well.  So, having someone with a fresh

        17       perspective taking a look at an agency like the

        18       Department of Labor, I think, is a pretty good

        19       idea as well.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        22       Dollinger.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through











                                                              157

         1       you, Madam President, just a couple more quick

         2       questions.

         3                      It's customary, since I do a lot

         4       of labor relations work, to look at someone's

         5       resume and also look at the concept of refer

         6       ences for the position.  I note that in the

         7       resume that I've gotten from Mr. Sweeney, I note

         8       there's no reference to, quote, "his

         9       references".

        10                      Do you know, Senator, who was

        11       given as his references, who checked his

        12       references?  Is he a member in good standing of

        13       the bar association, for example?  Is he -- I

        14       don't know, if we talked to lawyers that he's

        15       practiced with, judges he's practiced with?

        16                      The only reference I see on his

        17       entire resume is that he worked in civil litiga

        18       tion, criminal defense and labor relations.  Do

        19       you know what he did in labor relations?

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        21                      SENATOR SPANO:  I don't know

        22       specifically in terms of what he did in labor

        23       relations.  I know that he -- the question was











                                                              158

         1       asked this morning at our Labor Committee meet

         2       ing where he did answer that he had represented

         3       a number of clients in terms of Workers' Comp'

         4       claims and in a couple of other areas in labor,

         5       I don't remember exactly, Senator Dollinger,

         6       what they were.

         7                      I will tell you that I have been

         8       informed by the Governor's office that the

         9       complete BCI check was completed, a complete

        10       background check was completed on the nominee

        11       and, of course, I think it should carry some

        12       weight in this chamber for the fact that our

        13       Majority Leader stood on this floor and said he

        14       has known the nominee for the last 15 years and

        15       he's a constituent in the 43rd Senatorial

        16       District.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  One final

        18       question through you, Madam President, just so I

        19       understand the future course of this so we can

        20       perhaps clear up any qualms about the process

        21       that's been followed with respect to this

        22       nominee.

        23                      I understand, as in the Court of











                                                              159

         1       Appeals nominees, when I sat on the Judiciary

         2       Committee, the Court of Appeals nominees, the

         3       BCI reports and the financial disclosure reports

         4       are made available to members of that committee

         5       for inspection.

         6                      Is it my understanding that Mr.

         7       Sweeney's BCI report and his financial disclos

         8       ure forms -- and believe me, Senator, let me

         9       make it perfectly clear.  I don't know what's in

        10       them, I haven't seen them, and I don't know

        11       anyone in this chamber or anyone who's listening

        12       that there's anything in those reports of any

        13       consequence, but is it my understanding that

        14       those reports will be made as part of the

        15       Majority's confirmation process, that those

        16       report will be made available to members of the

        17       committee or individual members upon request to

        18       inspect in the future?

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again, I

        21       apologize through you, Madam President.  I

        22       understand Senator Spano was talking.

        23                      I just want to make sure.  Since











                                                              160

         1       there is an issue to access to information and,

         2       again, without -- I'm not casting -- I don't

         3       want any inferences drawn from this; I simply

         4       want to make sure we understand the process for

         5       the future.  Will the BCI reports and the

         6       financial disclosure information be available to

         7       all the members that want to have access to

         8       them, such as we've done in the Court of Appeals

         9       nominee which, frankly, because I'm a member of

        10       the Judiciary Committee are the only nominees

        11       that, in my past experience in this house, that

        12       I'm familiar with.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        14                      SENATOR SPANO:  If you can

        15       indulge us for a second, we'll get an answer.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Spano.

        17                      SENATOR SPANO:  Madam President,

        18       I'm advised by counsel that the complete BCI

        19       reports, the financial disclosure, all of the

        20       necessary background documents related to the

        21       nominee are available to the counsel, to the

        22       Majority Leader and to the Minority Leader and

        23       that, in fact, counsel to the Minority Leader











                                                              161

         1       did have an opportunity to review in detail the

         2        -- all of those statements, all of those

         3       disclosures, all of those files, and that's the

         4       procedure that has been in place by previous

         5       administrations.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         7       Dollinger.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         9       you, Madam President, and I apologize to Senator

        10       Spano.  This may not be a question appropriate

        11       to him but I -- my question is, why isn't that

        12       information made available to members?

        13                      The 300,000 people that I

        14       represent in the state of New York haven't been

        15       available -- I have not been able to review

        16       those materials, and my question is, why

        17       wouldn't they be made available directly to any

        18       member that had an interest in the process?

        19                      SENATOR SPANO: I will yield to

        20       the chairman of the Finance Committee.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford.

        22                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Madam

        23       President, I think maybe I can help here a











                                                              162

         1       little.

         2                      If anyone comes to the chairman

         3       of the Finance Committee, they're able to get

         4       information as I have in the past and as you

         5       would be able to.  Senator, let me emphasize, we

         6       don't think confidential information should be

         7       floating around the halls of the Legislature or

         8       of the Capitol or of your house.

         9                      Now, for years, as Senator Spano

        10       explained very, very well -

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Madam

        12       President, I just -

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Let me finish.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I don't like

        15       someone suggesting that I have violated the

        16       confidentiality of this chamber.  There's no

        17       evidence of that at all.

        18                      SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't like

        19       what I heard; I don't like what I heard at all.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford.

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I don't like

        22       what I heard, Madam President and, actually, as

        23       most people will agree, I'm a pretty easy-going











                                                              163

         1       guy.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I

         3       understand.  I hope the same is true.

         4                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Pardon?

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Nothing.

         6                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Good.  That

         7       was good judgment.

         8                      Now, as we explained earlier -

         9       as we explained earlier, there's confidential

        10       information is made available to the staff of

        11       the Minority and the Majority, and if this isn't

        12       done properly, we find out very, very quickly if

        13       we find out that the information isn't being

        14       afforded us.

        15                      We don't take confidential

        16       information out of files and have them here in

        17       various offices.  I hope I make myself clear.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  You do,

        19       Senator.  I simply want to point out that, both

        20       when Senator Lack was chairman of Judiciary

        21       Committee and his predecessor, Senator Mega, I

        22       inspected that information.  I never violated

        23       the confidences.  I take those confidences, both











                                                              164

         1       as a member of this Legislature and as a lawyer,

         2       very seriously.

         3                      SENATOR LACK:  Madam President.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

         5                      SENATOR LACK:  Yes.  I'm sorry to

         6       go out of order, but if I can just answer

         7       Senator Dollinger's question.

         8                      Senator, judiciary appointments,

         9       as Senator Skelos certainly pointed out, do not

        10       go to the Committee on Finance.  The reason you

        11       got information on Court of Appeals judges is

        12       because they're lifetime appointees, and you saw

        13       that information.

        14                      Normal judicial confirmations

        15       done by this house is you'll get basically the

        16       some type of information that Senator Spano

        17       referred you to.  Counsels to the Minority will

        18       have access to look at full financial

        19       disclosure.  If there's something they want

        20       more, they'll ask for it.  But the reason is a

        21       little bit more leeway in judiciary rather than

        22       the other committees is because judicial

        23       nominations don't go to Finance Committee; they











                                                              165

         1       come to this floor.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate

         3       Senator -

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

         5       Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

         7       Senator Lack's clarification.  I think that's a

         8       reasoned basis for distinguishing between the

         9       two.  However, I would urge my colleagues on the

        10       other side to adopt the more open judiciary

        11       approach because I think it would facilitate,

        12       frankly, eliminating possibilities of

        13       misinformation or questionable -- someone has

        14       said here earlier, a question being raised.

        15                      I think the open and above-board

        16       disclosure among members on a confidential basis

        17       would be appreciated.

        18                      On the nomination, Madam

        19       President, I'm going to vote in opposition to

        20       this nomination.

        21                      I guess in my labor relations

        22       practice, the first thing that I did to try to

        23       figure out whether someone would perform a job











                                                              166

         1       is to look at what they did in the past as an

         2       indication of what they'll do in the future.  So

         3       in preparation for that, I went to the Labor

         4       Law, which contains in Section 21, 12 things

         5       that the Commissioner of Labor has jurisdiction

         6       over.  There's no evidence today that this

         7       nominee has ever done any one of those 12

         8       things.

         9                      I then went to the definition of

        10       the Labor Commissioner in McKinney's, the

        11       summary in McKinney's, which contains all the

        12       references to the labor commission in all the

        13       laws that this Legislature has passed, all the

        14       directions that we've given to the Labor

        15       Commissioner to do.  Oh, let's start with

        16       actions and proceedings involving the forfeiture

        17       of property, occupational and safety health

        18       standards, Article 78 proceedings relating to

        19       that.

        20                      Senator Bruno mentioned that one

        21       of the critical issues was the apprenticeship

        22       and training council.  That's a critical thing.

        23       I believe in job retention.  There's no evidence











                                                              167

         1       that this nominee has done that.

         2                      What about convening boards of

         3       inquiry in labor disputes?  Again, a power given

         4       to the Labor commissioner?  No evidence he's

         5       ever been involved in that.

         6                      How about the bridge to employ

         7       ment program, workout, try out and education

         8       programs, all of those important things that the

         9       commissioner does?  No evidence that he's done

        10       any of that.

        11                      No evidence that he's ever been

        12       involved in enforcement proceeding held by the

        13       Department of Labor, involving building con

        14       struction, demolition, repair, the building

        15       construction code, the Labor Law, the

        16       occupational and safety health standards, all of

        17       them very important.

        18                      He will be participating in the

        19       entrepreneurship, support centers, standards in

        20       establishing them.  No evidence he's been

        21       involved in that.

        22                      He's involved in factory inspec

        23       tion.  He's involved in farm worker inspections.











                                                              168

         1       He's involved in determining hours of labor.

         2       He's involved in investigations under the Labor

         3       and Management Improper Practices Act.  He's

         4       involved in labor camps, in manpower development

         5       and training, medical inspection and supervision

         6       over employees in industries dangerous to safety

         7       and health, municipal housing contracts,

         8       determinations of prevailing rates, collective

         9       bargaining contracts.  It goes -- conditions of

        10       aliens employed in industry, labor conditions,

        11       powers as to women in industry, all of these

        12       qualifications, none of which this nominee has.

        13                      And, frankly, I guess when I look

        14       through the qualifications that are listed on

        15       this resume, I guess the one thing that makes me

        16       most nervous is the one listed at the very top.

        17       I acknowledge, as Senator Bruno does, that we're

        18       in a new era, but in this new era, one of the

        19       questions I would ask, would I hire this person

        20       for $95,000 to be the Commissioner of Labor when

        21       he tells me that his first and foremost entry on

        22       his resume, which doesn't include any

        23       references, doesn't contain any evidence of











                                                              169

         1       doing anything that the Commissioner of Labor is

         2       required to do, is that he was the executive

         3       director and chief counsel from 1992 to the

         4       present of the New York State Republican State

         5       Committee?

         6                      I'd suggest that that's more than

         7       enough reason to look -

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would Senator

         9       Dollinger yield?

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Skelos.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Not at this

        12       time, Madam President.  I'll yield when I'm

        13       finished.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Could I have a

        15       point of information?

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  State your point,

        17       please.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe, if

        19       you look at the resume, the jobs have been

        20       listed in chronological order by year of

        21       service.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's

        23       correct.











                                                              170

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  So I don't think

         2       you should mislead the Senate in believing that

         3       that was his number one priority in terms of

         4       competence to serve as Labor Commissioner,

         5       although being executive director of the

         6       Republican State Committee and the fine job they

         7       did this past November 8th is good enough for

         8       me.

         9                      (Applause.)

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator

        11       Dollinger.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Under those

        13       circumstances, Senator Skelos, assuming that

        14       you're correct, he should be the Elections

        15       Commissioner and not the Labor Commissioner.

        16                      It seems to me, when people

        17       approach me with a resume, they put on the top

        18       of the resume their most valued skill, the one

        19       thing that catches your eye, the one thing

        20       that's most important, the one credential they

        21       want you to remember, and that's it.

        22                      I suggest that spending $95,000

        23       of my taxpayers' money on this nominee for this











                                                              171

         1       position is not supported by the evidence in

         2       front of you.

         3                      I will vote no.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Chair has a

         5       list of Senators who would like to be

         6       recognized.

         7                      Senator Markowitz.

         8                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you

         9       very much, Madam President.

        10                      I'm going to support the

        11       nomination, and I want to give you a reason

        12       why.

        13                      It's very clear from listening to

        14       Senator Spano and I think most of my colleagues

        15        -- I know Senator Lack for a lot of years and I

        16       know how to read between the lines.  We can't

        17       defend the nomination on his experience running

        18       the Labor Department.  There's no question about

        19       it.  The fact is, if you look over the nominees

        20       over the past number of administrations, it

        21       clearly shows that this nominee lacks the boiler

        22       plate language and the hands-on experience that

        23       one would expect a commissioner in this











                                                              172

         1       department to have.

         2                      I have serious questions.  This

         3       department, I understand, has 6,000 employees.

         4       I wonder, in terms of the Rensselaer program

         5       that he was in charge of, how many employees

         6       reported to him.  I have concerns about a lot of

         7       issues on this, and I heard some good things

         8       from Senator Bruno about his father.  It brought

         9       to my mind that perhaps we should be confirming

        10       him this afternoon.

        11                      But what I am saying is this, and

        12       my concern.  I believe in the widest latitude

        13       for a governor to make his appointments, because

        14       if this commissioner-to-be fails, it won't be

        15       his problem or responsibility; it will be on the

        16       shoulders of our governor, our new governor.

        17                      Senator Maltese, all of us here

        18       recognize that the Republican Party won the

        19       election this past November.  We know that.  You

        20       don't have to repeat it.  We know it.  Believe

        21       me, we know it.  Being Democrats in the Senate,

        22       regardless of who won, we're in the same

        23       position, believe me, we're no further out in











                                                              173

         1       the pasture than we were under previous

         2       Democratic governors, that's for sure, so we're

         3       kind of used to it on this end.

         4                      We've learned from the Majority

         5       here, when Governor Carey and Governor Cuomo had

         6       proposed their nominees, that at times you move

         7       swiftly and other times you waited and other

         8       times you dragged it out year after year, you

         9       did what you thought was best the way you saw

        10       it, and here as Democrats in a Republican

        11       administration, we have a right, a legitimate

        12       right, in fact, an absolute constitutional

        13       right, to raise the questions.

        14                      So I'm convinced that, on the

        15       basis of experience, Mr. Sweeney doesn't have

        16       it.  But something else was said here, and,

        17       Senator Spano, you said it right, that maybe

        18       it's not what he has had but what he may bring

        19       that's something this governor has seen in this

        20       gentleman that he feels he's got something going

        21       for him, that he will be the kind of

        22       commissioner that he believes, the Governor

        23       believes will be the best for the people of this











                                                              174

         1       state, and so I hope and pray that the new

         2       commissioner will be a superb addition here in

         3       New York, that he will be an excellent

         4       commissioner that labor with respect throughout

         5       the state of New York, but let it be said today

         6       and forward, that if this nomination succeeds,

         7       it will be the Governor and Mr. Sweeney.  Should

         8       this nominee fail his responsibilities and not

         9       become a superb Labor Commissioner, it will be

        10       Governor Pataki's fault.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator DiCarlo.

        12                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Madam Chair

        13       woman -- Madam President, it's an honor to rise

        14       on behalf of the nominee for Commissioner of

        15       Labor in New York State.  If you wish, John, to

        16       add my name to your list of references, I will

        17       gladly allow you to add my name.

        18                      Also, for Senator Dollinger, the

        19       most important name that I think in terms of

        20       reference was the person who is proposing Mr.

        21       Sweeney for the commissioner position, the

        22       Governor of the state of New York who has put

        23       forth Mr. Sweeney's name, and I think most of











                                                              175

         1       the people in this state have great respect and

         2       admiration for our new Governor.

         3                      In Labor today, in the committee

         4       meeting, there weren't many words opposed to Mr.

         5       Sweeney.  The only thing that I heard in the

         6       committee meeting today was that they didn't

         7       think he had enough experience.  I would argue

         8       that the reason that the state of New York is in

         9       such disrepair after 20 years of supposed

        10       experience and leadership is because we haven't

        11       put forth the right type of people in

        12       government.

        13                      Mr. Sweeney is that right type of

        14       person.  Mr. Sweeney, in my opinion, is an

        15       intelligent, energetic individual who was chosen

        16       by the Governor to do a job and that job he will

        17       do, and I'm glad that we're moving toward the

        18       individual such as Mr. Sweeney.

        19                      And for those of you who think

        20       it's just a Republican thing, I have had the

        21       experience of being on both sides of issues with

        22       John Sweeney.  We have been working together on

        23       issues, and we have also been in opposite camps











                                                              176

         1       on certain issues.  I have tremendous respect

         2       for his abilities.  I think he will make an

         3       excellent, excellent Labor Commissioner and we

         4       look forward to working with you.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

         6       Senator DiCarlo.

         7                      Senator Nanula.

         8                      SENATOR NANULA:  Rising to

         9       explain my vote.

        10                      I'm on the Labor Committee and

        11       this morning, upon receiving Mr. Sweeney's

        12       resume, I reviewed it, gave it some study and

        13       some thought and gave some thought to the

        14       dynamics of the job at hand and it became very

        15       clear to me, and it's been discussed abundantly

        16       since here in this chamber, that there were some

        17       striking observations regarding the concept in

        18       the term "experience".

        19                      The first thing I thought in

        20       regard to that concept was what type of

        21       management experience does this gentleman have?

        22       The second thing, of course, was what type of

        23       labor background does this gentleman have?  So











                                                              177

         1       instead of drawing conclusions from the resume

         2       alone, I went to the committee meeting and I

         3       asked Mr. Sweeney these questions.  I asked him

         4       what type of management experience, what were

         5       the annual budgets of the various entities, jobs

         6       that you've handled, the Stop DWI directorship,

         7       the town of Nassau town attorney, et cetera, and

         8       admittedly, Mr. Sweeney spoke up and said,

         9       "Well, my budgets were small; my staff

        10       allocations were small.  $80,000 was my staff

        11       allocation in my first year as director of the

        12       DWI -- the Stop DWI program, and I do not have

        13       experience in running a large organization."

        14                      It's be made clear that this

        15       organization, this department, is one that

        16       employees 5,000 plus people, and one that has a

        17       dynamic and diverse set of objectives and

        18       responsibilities which draws me to the next

        19       issue, and that, of course, is the experience in

        20       regards to labor.

        21                      I think it's wonderful that Mr.

        22       Sweeney grew up in a home with a father who is a

        23       union organizer and somebody who spoke up and











                                                              178

         1       worked on behalf of the issues important to

         2       people that are involved in labor but, if Mr.

         3       Sweeney's father had been a heart surgeon, I

         4       certainly would not feel comfortable in having

         5       Mr. Sweeney operate on me if I was having heart

         6       problems.  I think the exposure one has as a

         7       child to a process certainly is far different

         8       from one's professional experience in regards to

         9       detailed and diverse issues as those which have

        10       been stated by members like Senator Dollinger,

        11       issues that are important to the people of this

        12       state when it comes to labor.

        13                      So, for those reasons, I voted

        14       against Mr. Sweeney in the Labor Committee.

        15       Since then, other things have been discussed,

        16       other things have been mentioned.  There have

        17       been murmurings about ethics and whatnot; there

        18       have been discussions and I support my members

        19       and my colleagues in regards to us having some

        20       more time so we can give due process to this

        21       decision.

        22                      But more importantly than that,

        23       in my opinion, is that we really at least as far











                                                              179

         1       as I'm concerned don't need a lot more time to

         2       see that this gentleman does not have the core

         3       capabilities -- strike that, the core experience

         4        -- he may have the capabilities, but he has not

         5       proven himself in regards to these various

         6       aspects, and it's concerning to me.  It's

         7       concerning that in an era with an aura with our

         8       new leadership, where we're hearing that we're

         9       not going to be having politics as usual any

        10       more, that we're now seeing an appointment that

        11       seemingly, because of the lack of

        12       qualifications, may have other undertones.

        13       Maybe it is an ironic coincidence that this

        14       gentleman was formerly a key person in the

        15       Republican State Committee.

        16                      I hope, for the benefit of the

        17       people of this state, that that wasn't a driving

        18       force or a motivation for our new Governor in

        19       regards to this appointment.  I vote no on the

        20       qualifications.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        22                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

        23       President.











                                                              180

         1                      Now, two years ago on the floor,

         2       I passed a bill to set up increased science and

         3       technology and some flexibility in the

         4       Department of Labor budget.  Didn't pass the

         5       Assembly, brought it back last year, passed this

         6       house, passed the Assembly, went to the Governor

         7       and it got vetoed.  It got vetoed despite the

         8       good work of John Hudacs, the Commissioner of

         9       Labor, who was informed, after Vince Tese and a

        10       whole lot of other people who are commissioners

        11       and had grand titles and worked for Governor

        12       Cuomo, went to the Governor and said, Nah, this

        13       is bad.  This would only help the people.  It

        14       won't help us.  It's robbing from our depart

        15       ments.  You can't make the Labor Department that

        16       strong.  They can't do that.  You got to veto

        17       this.  Governor Cuomo did veto it.  John Hudacs

        18       is a good Commissioner of Labor and he's a good

        19       friend of mine.  He's also a lousy politician.

        20       He couldn't get the bill signed, and it never

        21       became law, much to the detriment of what we in

        22       the Senate voted for and what the Assembly voted

        23       for.











                                                              181

         1                      And now I find it just a little

         2       bit laughable that, after all of these years of

         3       patiently confirming Governor Carey's and

         4       Governor Cuomo's appointees from wherever whence

         5       they came, we actually have members of our

         6       Minority standing up and saying, this person

         7       isn't qualified or this person is too

         8       political.

         9                      I should go get all those old

        10       lists.  You're right.  We have all been too

        11       timid on behalf of this Majority.  Perhaps we

        12       didn't do our job all these years.  Perhaps we

        13       should have been saying what Senator Dollinger

        14       has been saying.  But I'm glad we didn't.  I'm

        15       glad we didn't, because the Governor does get

        16       his appointees.

        17                      Now, after we've listened to all

        18       this, let me tell you I happened to have read,

        19       maybe most of my colleagues on the Democratic

        20       side have not, I read Mr. Sweeney's formal

        21       statement that he submitted to the Labor

        22       Committee and submitted to the Finance Committee

        23       today.  I got to tell you after all my years of











                                                              182

         1       experience in chairing the Senate Labor

         2       Committee, I was impressed.  I was impressed by

         3       a paragraph in the first page that said that

         4       "what I want to do as Commissioner of Labor is

         5       consolidate all the job training and employment

         6       programs in this state, and I want to do that

         7       under my department, and I want to do that as

         8       Commissioner of Labor."

         9                      I can't tell you the number of

        10       meetings I have had, some with my colleagues,

        11       Frank Barbaro when he was Chair of the Assembly

        12       Labor Committee, the hearings we held throughout

        13       this state, the number of departments in this

        14       state that are currently job training,

        15       retraining, job employment, and all in a very

        16       protective manner.  If anything has to do with

        17       educational requirements, the Department of

        18       Education.  If there's a health-related

        19       requirement, the Department of Health.  If it

        20       has to do with taking people off of social

        21       services, Social Service Department.  If it's

        22       pure job training to find a position, Department

        23       of Labor, and on and on and on.  Whatever -











                                                              183

         1       whatever the political component is of our state

         2       government, there's a job training function.

         3       Over 400 of those.

         4                      No Labor Commissioner, potential

         5       or otherwise, has ever appeared before a Senate

         6       committee and said "what I want to do is

         7       consolidate that.  I want to put them together.

         8       I think I've got the moxie to go to the Governor

         9       and say that this has to be in one place," and

        10       after what happened this last November 8th,

        11       what's going on in Washington now as we look at

        12       entitlements changing to block grants, as we

        13       look at, to quote your President, the end of

        14       welfare as we know it, although I don't know

        15       when that's going to happen, but all that says

        16       is there's going to be new jobs and job training

        17       and where it's going to come from, and to me,

        18       that's the most important thing I would want to

        19       see in a commissioner of labor privately.

        20                      So you have to understand, I was

        21       utterly amazed when we I read John Sweeney's

        22       opening comment, and yes, Senator Dollinger,

        23       that was right up top of his formal statement,











                                                              184

         1       that that's what he wants to do as Commissioner

         2       of Labor.  I can't think of more important

         3       function for a commissioner of labor of this

         4       state than that, and if he's got some political

         5       credentials in his resume to be able to

         6       accomplish that with this Governor, boy, I'll

         7       stand up and give him a standing ovation,

         8       because that's what any of us would like to

         9       see.

        10                      So, John, my congratulations to

        11       you.  You've taken on for yourself one hell of a

        12       job.  My congratulations to you.  You are going

        13       to make a very good commissioner.  If you can

        14       already define that without sitting in the

        15       department as something this commissioner of

        16       labor should be doing, this Department of Labor

        17       should be doing, you certainly will have my

        18       support.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Chair

        20       recognizes Senator Leichter.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

        22       Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                      I think the Governor's











                                                              185

         1       nominations are entitled to great deference, but

         2       I think there's also a responsibility and

         3       obligation on the part of this Senate to perform

         4       its constitutional duty in a knowledgeable,

         5       informed and serious fashion.

         6                      The Constitution says that we

         7       should advise and consent.  It doesn't say

         8       advise and applaud, and let me say that I want

         9       to do this, and I think I've always done it in a

        10       non-partisan fashion.  I probably voted against

        11       more nominees of Governor Cuomo than anybody on

        12       the other side of the aisle.  I voted against

        13       two of his nominees last year.  Most, if not

        14       everybody on the other of the aisle, supported

        15       him, so I try to carry out my responsibilities

        16       and to do so having due regard that the Governor

        17       should be entitled to have the people that he

        18       thinks are best, as long as they meet basic

        19       standards, basic qualification, and if we don't

        20       search into that, if we don't look into that,

        21       then we are not carrying out our job and our

        22       duties.

        23                      I'm going to vote against this











                                                              186

         1       nomination for two reasons:  One is the process

         2       and we've discussed this at great length.  I

         3       just want to say very briefly, there is a real

         4       distinction between the Commissioner of Labor

         5       and Commissioner of Civil Service, and I made

         6       that point at the Finance Committee that we

         7       weren't asking for public hearings on every

         8       nomination, but we are asking for public

         9       hearings on important nominations like this.

        10                      We're also asking just for

        11       sufficient time so that every member reasonably,

        12       reasonably can inform himself or herself about

        13       anything in the nominee's background, and we

        14       wanted to do that.  We wanted to do in in a way

        15       that it's always been done here which is do it

        16       due regard for confidentiality, and so on, and

        17       not to force things out of the open that maybe

        18       have absolutely no substance to it whatsoever,

        19       but if you can't raise it in the usual way, then

        20       they come out in the open, maybe in a manner

        21       that you don't want it, and that's why we asked

        22       for one week -- one week -- that's all that we

        23       asked for.











                                                              187

         1                      Let me just finally say on the

         2       matter of process, because I'm not sure that was

         3       pointed out, Minority staff was showing the

         4       background check, the BCI and whatever was

         5       available on the financial, and I understand

         6       there is less available on the financial, to

         7       both the Majority and the Minority than was the

         8       practice under Governor Cuomo, but whatever was

         9       available, counsel saw that last Friday, in

        10       other words, one working day ago and, therefore,

        11       we did not have a chance to check into matters

        12       that we should have.

        13                      But let's look at the issue of

        14       qualification, and I have not seen or heard

        15       anything from this nominee, from his supporters,

        16       that give me the feeling that this nominee is

        17       qualified for this position.  Is he a capable,

        18       energetic, articulate person?  Absolutely.  Has

        19       he had any experience, any experience whatso

        20       ever, which qualifies him to be the Commissioner

        21       of Labor?  I have heard none.

        22                      The only thing that this nominee,

        23       in answer to the questions that I posed about











                                                              188

         1       what qualifies him, what he's really done, is

         2       that he comes from a houses where the father was

         3       a labor leader and, as Senator Markowitz rightly

         4       said, the father we would probably confirm, but

         5       I don't think that that by itself qualifies the

         6       son.

         7                      Senator Nanula pointed out very

         8       properly, that there's a total absence of admin

         9       istrative capability and experience in this nom

        10       inee.  The Department of Labor is a significant

        11       large office that requires administrative skill

        12       and requires that anybody who's going to run

        13       that office have some administrative experience

        14       of running large organizations.  Johnny Sweeney

        15       has none of that experience.

        16                      Senator Dollinger pointed out

        17       that, when you put forth a resume, you generally

        18       just on there that qualification which you think

        19       is most important to catch the eye of the person

        20       that's going to hire you, and I think maybe

        21       that's exactly what Mr. Sweeney did.  He put

        22       down that he was the executive director of the

        23       New York Republican State Committee.  That may











                                                              189

         1       be sufficient qualification for some people

         2       here.  It certainly is not for me.

         3                      Senator Bruno pointed out the

         4       importance of this commissionership as far as

         5       dealing with one of the most important issues we

         6       face in New York, and that's the matter of

         7       creating jobs.

         8                      Senator, I would submit to you

         9       that you would want somebody who's had some

        10       experience in job creation, who knows what the

        11       labor market is, what the functions of this

        12       office are, the many different important goals

        13       that this commissioner has to carry out.

        14                      If the issue is one of finding

        15       jobs for Republicans, and maybe that's the job

        16       creation you were talking about, Senator Bruno,

        17       then maybe Mr. Sweeney is qualified, but as far

        18       as serving the people of the state of New York,

        19       I'm afraid that the case has not been made and,

        20       therefore, I don't think that the threshold

        21       standard which all of us ought to have,

        22       irrespective of who makes the nomination, is the

        23       nominee by background, experience, by











                                                              190

         1       temperament, by skills, qualified for the job,

         2       I'm sorry to say, I cannot conclude that Mr.

         3       Sweeney is qualified to be Commissioner of Labor

         4       and I will vote against this nomination.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Paterson.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         8       if we were to refocus this discussion, we would

         9       understand that Senator Dollinger and Senator

        10       Leichter have made some excellent points about

        11       what are often the prerequisites to consent of

        12       nominations to commissioners and other

        13       gubernatorial appointees.  The experience, the

        14       skills that have been demonstrated in the past,

        15       some kind of institutional memory of situations

        16       that could occur, these are all valid

        17       objectives.

        18                      Sometimes there are those that

        19       come among us who have a great deal of vision

        20       and great deal of insight and a great deal of

        21       foresight.  This would eliminate me as an

        22       applicant to any office, but the point is that

        23       there are those in whom the Governor may see a











                                                              191

         1       specific talent that might be applied in this

         2       case to some of the ideas that the Governor

         3       would like to see instituted in the Department

         4       of Labor and Senator Spano and Senator Lack have

         5       underscored some of those talents that Mr.

         6       Sweeney apparently has exhibited just in the

         7       time since he's been nominated, and so the fact

         8       that we are having this prolonged debate and

         9       this almost insufferable argument about

        10       qualifications, we have to face the inevitable

        11       issue of why we're here, why we're even

        12       discussing it.

        13                      Is it that the Minority is just

        14       interested in creating a political scrutiny and

        15       in some respects, a circus around the nomination

        16       of a qualified person?  That might be a

        17       convenient conclusion, but I submit that that is

        18       not the case.  When a nomination is brought

        19       forth in such a short period of time that

        20       information is only available in an afternoon of

        21       one day and a morning of another, I maintain

        22       that that does not meet the threshold of what

        23       would be the valid process that might be











                                                              192

         1       achieved prior to an actual nomination.

         2                      And so, I just ask my colleagues

         3       on the other side of the aisle, how much more

         4       foresight would it have been to have simply

         5       allowed the process a few more days such that a

         6       qualified individual could be given the

         7       opportunity to sustain himself before a Finance

         8       Committee and Labor Committee that just had some

         9       basic questions about the qualifications of the

        10       nominee?  That is the point we're trying to

        11       make.

        12                      If there is a significant public

        13       issue that is occurring right now that demands

        14       redress by the Department of Labor, as far as

        15       we're concerned, Mr. Sweeney can start tomorrow,

        16       because there is precedent not only in law, but

        17       as I pointed up earlier, in actual application

        18       from 20 years ago in which that was actually the

        19       case and, incidentally, in that situation, the

        20       Senate never confirmed that particular nominee,

        21       and so what we are just simply saying, we are

        22       not trying to obfuscate the process.  We are not

        23       trying to delay the appointment.  We are just











                                                              193

         1       trying to uphold the Constitution which we feel

         2       is the most precious document that we can be

         3       adhering to in this particular process.

         4                      I would not like to be nominated

         5       to a position and be ridiculed when even those

         6       who are raising questions admit that not all the

         7       information has been perused in a proper fash

         8       ion, and so I'm going to vote for this nominee,

         9       but I vote for him with this admonition, which

        10       is simply that we in the Minority are not taking

        11       any responsibility for this appointment.  We

        12       don't feel the process was followed correctly,

        13       and we are not going to be held culpable for

        14       what the results may be.  It's unfortunate it

        15       had to come to this, but we reach this point

        16       because we feel that just a simple courtesy was

        17       not adhered to in this case.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the

        19       benefit of the members, the Chair would

        20       recognize that there is a continuing list.

        21       There currently are six Senators who wish to

        22       speak for this debate that began at 3:17.  Those

        23       Senators in order are Senator Gonzalez, who is











                                                              194

         1       up next, Senator Skelos, Senator Daly, Senator

         2       Waldon, Senator Stachowski and Senator Spano to

         3       close.

         4                      Senator Gonzalez.

         5                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I, too, rise to second the

         8       nomination of John Sweeney.  I also at the Labor

         9       Committee, moved for his coming to the Finance

        10       Committee.  At the Finance Committee, I also

        11       very proudly said that I know John, said that I

        12       have known John Sweeney for quite a few years.

        13       I have known him as -- in various capacities

        14       that he's undertaken.  I worked with him on

        15       several projects, I know him from the times

        16       where, when he attended Hudson Valley Community

        17       College, Russell Sage College, I think that even

        18       so as a man that was raised like I was raised

        19       from a union family, and those that tell me that

        20       I am not in that movement as I grew up through a

        21       labor movement family that it doesn't attach,

        22       they're mistaken, and I find that now in this

        23       nomination that the Governor has brought forth











                                                              195

         1       John Sweeney in a time frame and the debate that

         2       has gone a little bit of time, I am taken

         3       because of John Sweeney and what it means as his

         4       family and his wife and his kids, and I'm proud

         5       of knowing him, and I know he's qualified.

         6                      I feel that he has worked in many

         7       capacities, even as a lawyer.  I mean, it takes,

         8       to go through the training in the times that

         9       we've had many conversations on that -- going

        10       through law school, the training and the clients

        11       and the work that he has on his law behalf, I

        12       think that it's unfortunate that this process

        13       and timing has taken place and I, too, ask John,

        14       that he can place my name on his list of

        15       references with Senator DiCarlo.

        16                      With that, many have said that

        17       the thing of qualifications and I respect them

        18       as my colleagues, but many have said that I

        19       didn't qualify for Senator, and I can differ

        20       with anyone on that based on experience and

        21       time, and I think that he's going to be a hell

        22       of a commissioner, and I wish him well.

        23       Godspeed.  And, Mr. President, thank you.











                                                              196

         1                      I proudly second and vote for

         2       him.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Skelos passes.

         5                      Senator Daly.

         6                      SENATOR DALY:  Mr. President, I

         7       rise on one point, a comment that was made by

         8       one of our colleagues, Senator Dollinger, which

         9       I think that, if he had time to think about it,

        10       he would not have made, because I felt it was an

        11       insult to every man and woman in this chamber,

        12       to everyone who is involved in the political

        13       process.

        14                      He made light of, in fact, most

        15       sarcastically attacked the years that Mr.

        16       Sweeney has spent in the political process and

        17       working for one of the major parties of the

        18       state.  I don't think that kind of background,

        19       that kind of experience, should be denigrated,

        20       that it should be encouraged.  Truly, what kind

        21       of a message does that send to every man and

        22       woman who's involved in the political process

        23       and certainly, our political parties are a vital











                                                              197

         1       part of the governmental system which has served

         2       this country so well for over two centuries.

         3                      So I look upon Mr. Sweeney's

         4       experience with a political party as a definite

         5       plus and I congratulate him for having spent the

         6       time in his life working through the system and

         7       working through the machinery of that system

         8       that truly makes this system go.  Working in

         9       this house as a Senator, working in a political

        10       party, working in government, should not be

        11       criticized or demeaned.

        12                      Certainly, is there any -- are

        13       there any doubts of why the image of the elected

        14       offical and those that serve in government has

        15       grown as low -- has decreased to the level which

        16       we now find it, when we ourselves inside the

        17       system are critical of the system, and of the

        18       time people spend in this system?

        19                      And, Senator Dollinger, I really

        20       believe if you had thought about that, you would

        21       not have made that statement, but I rise really

        22       to defend, not Mr. Sweeney, but every man and

        23       woman who is in the system right now who works











                                                              198

         1       for the Democratic Party, who works for the

         2       Conservative Party, who works for the Republican

         3       Party, and I don't think that comments in which

         4       we insult the time one spends working in the

         5       political process is worthy of this floor.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Waldon.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      Mr. President, I'm not as quick

        11       as I used to be.

        12                      I am not disrespectful of the

        13       nominee, Mr. Sweeney, but I am very respectful

        14       of this process.  I have no ax to grind with Mr.

        15       Sweeney.  I understand what politics is about.

        16       I have been in this game a long time, and when

        17       you owe a debt, if you're an honorable person,

        18       you pay the debt.  If someone's helped you to be

        19       elected, you must take care of business on

        20       behalf of those who helped you.  So I understand

        21       the Governor's need to appoint persons who have

        22       helped him, and there's nothing wrong with

        23       that.











                                                              199

         1                      I also understand very

         2       well, because I have been appointed in this

         3       state, a deputy commissioner and a commissioner,

         4       that sometimes you don't have the prerequisite

         5       background for a position but, if you have

         6       energy, if you have a sensitivity to the

         7       process, if you have a desire to work hard and

         8       your work ethic is good, that you may be very

         9       successful in the position.

        10                      I also very well understand that

        11       each of us was elected by constituents of

        12       300,000 people who empowered to us come here and

        13       to act on their behalf.  And today, the

        14       information that I received regarding this

        15       nominee caused me to honor that commitment to

        16       the people who have elected me to serve here

        17       with you, my colleagues, and to raise certain

        18       concerns.

        19                      I heard the arguments about

        20       absence of preparation for the position, and

        21       they were real, but I could bypass those meaning

        22       I could accept the nominee even if, in your

        23       opinion of my opinion, he or she did not have











                                                              200

         1       sufficient prerequisite preparation, if there

         2       were other things evidenced.

         3                      What actually caused me to stand

         4       up and to make the comments I made was a

         5       question of character, a question of character,

         6       and I think that we as a body should have a

         7       right to know full well the character of those

         8       who will serve in such high positions so that we

         9       can then determine in an advised manner that

        10       they are not only prepared intellectually,

        11       perhaps prepared in terms of preparation, but

        12       they have what it takes to function in that

        13       capacity in terms of their personal integrity

        14       and character, and I find the explanations here

        15       today lacking, for want of a better way of

        16       putting it, in terms of this candidate, this

        17       nominee.

        18                      So despite my acceptance of the

        19       process and payback, despite my ability to

        20       support someone even if they do not have the

        21       prerequisite preparation on questions of

        22       character and integrity, when that is left grey

        23       to my mind's eye, I cannot support it, so











                                                              201

         1       despite no disrespect to this gentleman and his

         2       family, I must most respectfully vote in the no.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Stachowski.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         6       President, just briefly.

         7                      Senator Spano alluded to earlier

         8       that in speaking with me ahead of him that we

         9       had not mentioned any problems that we saw and

        10       that during the course of the committee meeting,

        11       with the exception of individuals that found

        12       problem with their idea of a man's capabilities,

        13       there wasn't a major issue about whether, you

        14       know, there was a problem with this candidate,

        15       and that was absolutely true.

        16                      Senator Connor then spoke about

        17       how, in preparing for the Finance Committee,

        18       some of us were given some information that

        19       could be troublesome.  That also is true.  But

        20       when we got to the Finance Committee, the

        21       background report was that there was no problem,

        22       and although we still had a problem, I've always

        23       felt that if the committee tells me that there's











                                                              202

         1       no problem, then there isn't a problem, so I

         2       would just say that I'm putting the committee

         3       people on notice, that if this does prove to be

         4       a problem, the question that some of us had,

         5       well, then, you know, in the future, there's no

         6       longer the ability to take their word that

         7       there's no problem in the background check.

         8                      To the unions' lack of any kind

         9       of comment, I have always taken that personally

        10       that, if the unions have a problem with either

        11       an issue or an individual, they have always

        12       known where to find me; they have always written

        13       me, called me, whatever was necessary to get my

        14       attention to let me know they have a problem

        15       with somebody.  I haven't heard from anybody.

        16       As a matter of fact, staff people reached out

        17       and came back with no opposition to this

        18       person.  The one memo in support came from the

        19       professional firefighters supporting this

        20       individual.

        21                      So, for all of those reasons, I,

        22       on my behalf have not enough reason to oppose

        23       the appointment.  I'm going to vote for this











                                                              203

         1       confirmation, but I wanted to make sure that the

         2       unions know that their lack of any opposition

         3       leads me to believe that they're all for the

         4       individual, that the Governor's belief in the

         5       individual and the fact that he has the ability

         6       and the energy to do this job and especially at

         7       a time when we're looking for job creation in

         8       New York to help us with all of our problems,

         9       it's the Governor's nomination and I usually

        10       defer to the Governor's opinion, because that's

        11       his job as the executive, to send up people he

        12       thinks are qualified and not finding anything in

        13       his background, according to the people in the

        14       Finance Committee, therefore, on their

        15       recommendation, I'll say that he doesn't have

        16       any background problems, so that I can't for any

        17       reason that I am personally aware of, oppose

        18       this person, and I will be voting for his

        19       confirmation.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        21       recognizes Senator Mendez.

        22                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        23       am -- I am going to support this candidate.











                                                              204

         1                      When we met in the Finance

         2       Committee, I expressed my point of view there to

         3       Senator Stafford, as well as to the Majority

         4       Leader, that I had been advised that information

         5       pertaining to Mr. Sweeney had been provided only

         6       on Thursday afternoon to the Minority staff of

         7       the Finance Committee, and that, therefore, they

         8       were unable to inform all the members even of

         9       the resume of Mr. Sweeney.

        10                      I have no doubt that, as I was

        11       told by Senator Stafford as well as by Senator

        12       Bruno, in the future we are going to receive the

        13       information of any nominee ahead of time so that

        14       the staff from Minority Finance will be able to

        15       gather the information that is necessary and

        16       inform all of us.

        17                      I have been -- I heard Mr.

        18       Sweeney in the Finance Committee.  I know he's a

        19       lawyer.  I know he's very articulate, and I also

        20       know what impressed me was exactly the same

        21       thing that impressed -- two things impressed me,

        22       the same thing that impressed Senator Lack, and

        23       that is that he plans to put together all those











                                                              205

         1        -- all those training problems where we are

         2       spending taxpayers' monies in training for this,

         3       in training for that and the other thing, when

         4       actually there are no jobs available for

         5       whatever kind of training, and that it has been

         6       in the same area as it has been stated in some

         7       newspapers there are a lot of people making a

         8       lot of money in supposedly providing training,

         9       either for welfare recipients or whatever, and

        10       they making money and the person is trained for

        11       a non-existent job.

        12                      I have heard the complaint here

        13       that Mr. Sweeney doesn't have experience in the

        14       area of labor.  Well, to me, being brought up in

        15       a household where -- where, from being a very

        16       small child, you hear at the table conversations

        17       about the right of workers and what's happening,

        18       that is a very valuable experience.  All right,

        19       as a professional himself, he only had three

        20       years in labor relations or whatever, in that

        21       area.

        22                      However, I say to you, Mr.

        23       President, psychologists do say that, in order











                                                              206

         1       for you to complete successfully four years of

         2       college, you need an IQ of 110, and I suppose

         3       that that would be the minimum requirement also

         4       to complete a law degree so that just by sheer

         5       fact that this man has completed that degree,

         6       and has valued experience, doesn't lead me to

         7       believe that he needs just experience in the

         8       area of labor.

         9                      And let's be very realistic, I

        10       have to tell you, Mr. President, that many years

        11       back -- many years back, I was trying to have

        12       this friend of mine, a child psychiatry

        13       involving politics, and I was telling her of the

        14       reasons why she should get in, and then she said

        15       to me, "You know, Olga, it pleases me to see you

        16       so idealistic about government and everything

        17       else, but you know something, Olga, politics is

        18       jobs."

        19                      Now, I say to you, Mr. President,

        20       that the criticisms that this young man is too

        21       political for a job, it is so ridiculous.  You

        22       know why?  Because from the first executive in

        23       the nation, to a mayor in a little local county,











                                                              207

         1       whether it is a Republican or a Democrat, they

         2       always do choose among people, that having with

         3       them, that to say the least, to have minimum

         4       qualifications for the job, but that they do

         5       trust, that in the area, the fact that in the

         6       business of politics, as it's called business of

         7       politics, loyalty and hard work are very, very

         8       priceless commodities.

         9                      I supported the nomination of Mr.

        10       Sweeney in the -- in the -- in the Finance

        11       Committee.  I am supporting his confirmation

        12       today.  I think that my colleagues do have a

        13       basis for complaining, and that is that the

        14       process in terms of the information that was

        15       given to us was compounded, was not given with

        16       enough time for everybody to have reviewed

        17       everything that that was available, but I think

        18       that -- I think that he'll end up doing a good

        19       job, and, if he does nothing else in the

        20       Department of Labor but consolidate all those

        21       enormous amount of training programs, I will say

        22       he's done a good job.

        23                      Thank you, Mr. President.











                                                              208

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         2       any other Senator wishing to speak to the

         3       confirmation prior to Senator Spano closing on

         4       the confirmation?

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Hearing none, Senator Spano.

         7                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      We've had -- we've had a number

        10       of questions about the process today and

        11       rewriting the rules and that's not what I'm

        12       going to address.  I think that's been addressed

        13       adequately.  It's time for us to talk about John

        14       Sweeney.

        15                      You know, John, you sat up there

        16       in the gallery, your kids fell asleep, your wife

        17       had to take a couple of them out of here.  I

        18       don't know why; we all stayed awake.  We're

        19       going to try to end this by 5:00 o'clock,

        20       because Senator Bruno said we're not going to

        21       work past 5:00 o'clock any day?  Is it 5:00

        22       o'clock or 12:00 o'clock?  I forgot.

        23                      All of the questions that were











                                                              209

         1       asked today of John Sweeney at our committee

         2       meeting today were answered by him, all of the

         3       information that was made available in the -- to

         4       the appropriate counsels and the questions that

         5       could have been developed as a result of that

         6       information could have been asked today in a

         7       timely fashion.

         8                      Senator Leichter said that the

         9       criteria for a Labor Commissioner should be that

        10       the person should be knowledgeable and informed

        11       and should have the basic standards and

        12       qualifications for the job.  I will say to you

        13       that the person that we call the new sheriff in

        14       town, Governor George Pataki, tries to organize

        15       the government in a timely fashion, prepare a

        16       budget for submission to us in just a few short

        17       days from now, it's important that he have in

        18       place a team who will be working with him so

        19       that this process works and works well for all

        20       of our constituents, and I would submit to you,

        21       the members of this house, that we do, in fact,

        22       in the name of John Sweeney, have someone who is

        23       knowledgeable and informed and has more than the











                                                              210

         1       basic standards and certainly has the

         2       qualifications to serve as the commissioner of

         3       the Department of Labor.

         4                      I think he will make a great

         5       commissioner, and I was pleased to accept the

         6       motion by Senator Gonzalez today in the Labor

         7       Committee this morning and the motion that we

         8       favorably recommend the -- John Sweeney's

         9       appointment, the nomination to the Finance

        10       Committee.  I think it's wise that we're moving

        11       very quickly to make this happen.  I think that

        12       John Sweeney is going to make a great

        13       commissioner, and you will make us all proud,

        14       and it's my pleasure to move your nomination.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       question is on the confirmation of John E.

        17       Sweeney to the position of Commissioner of

        18       Labor, state of New York.  All those in favor,

        19       signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye".)

        21                      Opposed, nay.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair











                                                              211

         1       recognizes Senator Gold.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'll tell Senator

         3       Bruno, I will certainly be within my two

         4       minutes, well within my two minutes.

         5                      Mr. President, when there were

         6       Democratic Governors and there was a Republican

         7       Majority here, we had a checks and balance

         8       system.  Now, with a Republican Governor, a

         9       Republican Senate, I think it's important that

        10       there not only continue to be a checks and

        11       balance system, but that everybody knows it's

        12       there.

        13                      You have the required 31 votes to

        14       confirm any nominee without a committee meeting,

        15       without a hearing.  You can do it.  What we've

        16       talked about in terms of process is very

        17       important, and I'll tell you the truth, I'm

        18       disappointed that some people on my side of the

        19       aisle talk about process, they say all of the

        20       right things, but when push comes to shove, they

        21       don't follow through, and I think in the long

        22       run, that's going to hurt us, because if we

        23       don't mean it, we shouldn't say it.











                                                              212

         1                      I also want to say one other

         2       thing.  I don't blame any of this on George

         3       Pataki.  George Pataki got elected.  He is

         4       elected.  His job is to appoint commissioners,

         5       and he sends down nominees, and if we then

         6       undertake to make a farce of the process, it's

         7       not George Pataki's fault.

         8                      The last thing I want to say that

         9       we cast a vote, and this business I've also

        10       heard of, "Well, if it turns out we're wrong,

        11       it's your fault because you're the Majority and

        12       it's your fault, Governor Pataki."  I don't

        13       believe that either.  The answer is I'm prepared

        14       to do work and I'm here to work, and if that

        15       work process is cut short by the Majority, then

        16       I still have to do my job, and I think the only

        17       responsible thing to do today with all due

        18       respect to Mr. Sweeney, who is a good, nice

        19       gentleman, but based upon answers he gave at the

        20       committee on prevailing wage and other matters

        21       like that, and specifically because of the

        22       process, I vote no.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                              213

         1       Dollinger, to explain his vote.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         3       President, I rise just to comment on two issues.

         4                      One, I appreciate the comments

         5       from my colleague from Niagara County.  In

         6       rethinking my own expression about the issue,

         7       the point I was trying to make, I may have

         8       struck with too broad a brush, and I apologize

         9       to you or anyone else for that.

        10                      The point I was trying to make is

        11       that it seems to me if you have accomplishments

        12       to back up your involvement in government, the

        13       coalescence of those two must be celebrated,

        14       should be celebrated.  I look forward to the

        15       day, frankly, Senator Daly, not perhaps in the

        16       too distant future when I'll stand on this floor

        17       and I'll talk about your career and

        18       accomplishments and how you combined the two and

        19       achieved that goal.  Then, it will be

        20       celebrated.

        21                      If, however, they do not

        22       coalesce, there is a danger that a skeptical

        23       public will say, we have the politics without











                                                              214

         1       the accomplishments, and that will be demeaning

         2       to the political process.  That was the point I

         3       was trying to make.

         4                      I'll close on only one other

         5       note, Mr. President.  There's been some

         6       discussion about the importance of household on

         7       this nominee.  I will simply point out I grew up

         8       in an orthodox Republican household and it

         9       didn't seem to have any effect.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Jones to explain her vote.

        12                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes. Mr.

        13       President, I listened very carefully here to the

        14       debate and I guess I came here two weeks ago

        15       very enthused and very excited because I am not

        16       afraid of change.  I think all of you on that

        17       side of the aisle saw me the last two years many

        18       times raise my hands with all of you, because I

        19       thought you were right, so I don't think you can

        20       say that I'm a person who's necessarily

        21       partisan.

        22                      I agree with Senator Markowitz.

        23       I clearly didn't expect this to be any worse











                                                              215

         1       off.  I figured the only place we could go is up

         2       and the words I heard from the Governor saying

         3       "I was a minority person," I think everybody

         4       has a right to speak.  I was thrilled.

         5                      I also heard people on the other

         6       side saying, maybe even our name would be

         7       allowed on a bill this year.  I was thrilled

         8       again, but I'm not thrilled after what happened

         9       here today.  All that was asked for by my

        10       colleagues, who are certainly far more

        11       knowledgeable about years past and precedents

        12       than asked for a week.  That's all that was

        13       asked for, not confirmation, just one week, that

        14       we could ask some questions and could take a

        15       little time.  I think that was very reasonable,

        16       and that would have said to me that all the

        17       other words I heard prior to this were true and

        18       I could look forward to a far better year than

        19       the last two, to be perfectly honest with you

        20       but I'm concerned at what happened today.  That

        21       isn't the message that I got.

        22                      I don't know Mr. Sweeney.  I know

        23       nothing about him except what I read on a piece











                                                              216

         1       of paper, but I had heard questions that I

         2       wanted answered, so again, I'm going to support

         3       my colleagues in saying, I think it was a simple

         4       request, that the process could have been

         5       different and I want it clear, I'm not voting

         6       against Mr. Sweeney, but I am going to vote no

         7       on what happened here today.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Connor, to explain his vote.

        10                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      I think everybody has explained

        13       what the real issue is, and it's a matter of

        14       time, it's a matter of procedure.  Under the

        15       circumstances, I'd ask that the record reflect

        16       that I vote no.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Bruno?

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, to

        20       explain my vote.

        21                      I want to clarify a statement my

        22       good friend, Senator Connors, made in that I had

        23       indicated that we would guarantee a week's











                                                              217

         1       notice for any confirmation.  I don't recall

         2       that, and you and I can talk about that

         3       further.

         4                      We are going to govern in this

         5       chamber, and we will give as much advance notice

         6       as is appropriate.  I personally resent some of

         7       the allegations here that we are acting, Mr.

         8       President, in some unconstitutional way.  I have

         9       heard about the constitutional process.

        10       Everything that has happened in this chamber is

        11       according to the rules, regulations and laws of

        12       this chamber and this state, and I am honored

        13       and pleased to vote in favor of this highly

        14       qualified individual in moving his nomination.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        16       will announce that the confirmation of John E.

        17        -- excuse me -- nomination of John E. Sweeney

        18       as Commissioner of Labor is, in fact,

        19       confirmed.

        20                      On behalf of Senator Bruno,

        21       Commissioner Sweeney, we congratulate you on

        22       your new position, wish you well.

        23                      (Applause.)











                                                              218

         1                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         2       Bruno.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         5       there are some members that would like to be

         6       recorded in the negative.  Would you please make

         7       a record of that.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would

         9       those who specifically want to be recorded in

        10       the negative raise their hands.

        11                      The Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        13       the negative are Senator Gold, Senator Leichter,

        14       Senator Abate, Senator Dollinger, Senator

        15       Kruger, Senator Jones, also Senator Waldon,

        16       Senator Nanula, Senator Connor.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Bruno.

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  There being no

        21       further business to come before the Senate, I

        22       move that we stand adjourned until tomorrow at

        23       2:00 p.m. -- 3:00 p.m.











                                                              219

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow at 3:00

         3       p.m.

         4                      (Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the

         5       Senate adjourned.)

         6

         7

         8

         9