Regular Session - February 15, 1995
1174
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4 ALBANY, NEW YORK
5 February 15, 1995
6 10:02 a.m.
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9 REGULAR SESSION
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13 SENATOR JOHN A. DeFRANCISCO, Acting President
14 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1175
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 The Senate will come to order. I'd ask everyone
4 to please rise and join with me to repeat the
5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
8 In the absence of clergy, I would
9 request that each of us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silence.
11 (A moment of silence was
12 observed. )
13 Reading of the Journal.
14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
15 Tuesday, February 14th. The Senate met pursuant
16 to adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon
17 designation of the Temporary President. The
18 Journal of Monday, February 13th, was read and
19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
21 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
22 as read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
1176
1 Messages from the Assembly.
2 Messages from the Governor.
3 Reports of standing committees.
4 The Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: We have none.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
7 None. O.K. Thank you.
8 Reports of select committees.
9 Communications and reports from
10 state officers.
11 Motions and resolutions.
12 Senator DiCarlo.
13 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
14 on behalf of Senator Goodman, on page 10, I
15 offer the following amendments to Calendar 99,
16 Senate Print Number 1613, and ask that said bill
17 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
19 Amendments are received.
20 Senator Bruno?
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
22 understand there's a resolution at the desk.
23 May we have it read and adopted?
1177
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 Secretary will read.
3 Senator, it's my understanding
4 the family will be down and they're not
5 presently here.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: May we then move
7 to the non-controversial calendar, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
10 Secretary will read the non-controversial
11 calendar.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 58, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 655,
14 an act to amend the Penal Law and the General
15 Business Law, in relation to misapplication of
16 property by refusal to return such property.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
22 Please call the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
1178
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 The bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 60, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number -
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
8 Lay the bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 63, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 1286,
11 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
12 in relation to spectators at exhibitions of
13 animal fighting.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
15 Please read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 1st day of November
18 next succeeding the date on which it shall have
19 become a law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
21 Please call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31.
1179
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 The bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 70, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
5 317-A -
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
8 Lay the bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 100, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 2241,
11 an act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal
12 Procedure Law, the Judiciary Law, the County Law
13 and the Correction Law, in relation to the
14 imposition of the death penalty.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Read the last
16 -- lay aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 Lay the bill aside.
19 Senator Larkin.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
21 there will be an immediate meeting -- an
22 immediate meeting of the Local Government
23 Committee in Room 332.
1180
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 Meeting of the Local Government Committee
3 immediately in Room 332.
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
6 Senator Bruno.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we now move
8 to the controversial calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 60, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 773.
13 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
15 Lay the bill aside. Is that for the day,
16 Senator?
17 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
19 The bill is laid aside for the day.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 70, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number
22 317-A.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
1181
1 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend
2 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
3 maximum speed limits.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: An
5 explanation has been asked for.
6 Senator Johnson.
7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
8 the purpose of this bill is to do what 42 other
9 states have done, permit the Thruway Authority
10 and the DOT to raise the speed limit to 65 miles
11 per hour on the eligible portions of interstates
12 in the state of New York, and divided highways.
13 There are 1400 miles eligible in this state.
14 People already are doing 65, 67 on these roads.
15 Essentially, what it will do is
16 have our state conform to the standards of most
17 other states, and it will legitamatize the
18 proper speed at which people are presently
19 traveling, permitting them to look forward when
20 they drive and not in their rear view mirror,
21 necessitating, perhaps permitting the dropping
22 of radar detectors and other things to protect
23 themselves against enforcement of a 55-mile-an
1182
1 hour speed limit capriciously, which may be done
2 in some cases now.
3 So it's really getting in tune
4 with the times. It's not going to have any
5 negative effects. It's going to be a positive
6 effect on the state of New York in terms of
7 maintaining good speeds. You can get where you
8 want to go safely on roads designed for those
9 speeds.
10 That's about it, Mr. President.
11 It permits this limit to be raised. It does not
12 require it to be done; so it's at the -- at the
13 desire of the Department.
14 (A beeper was heard.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Not a message
18 I'm getting here.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
20 Johnson yield for a question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
22 Senator, will you yield?
23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. Yes, Mr.
1183
1 President.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: First of all,
3 Senator, I really think that, in light of the
4 new speed limit, this should have been Calendar
5 Number 65, because I thought you wanted to raise
6 the speed limit to 70.
7 But putting that aside, what I
8 think I wanted to ask you is that we already
9 know that the fatalities were decreased by 28
10 percent when we lowered the speed limit to 55.
11 So my question to you is, do you have any kind
12 of statistical data on how this will affect the
13 fatalities, also given the fact that trucks that
14 carry over 28,000 pounds and also school buses
15 which are very large, could contribute to that?
16 Do you have any information on that?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 Senator Johnson.
19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
20 President, if I may address a question. The
21 statement which you made, Senator, was something
22 happened when we went to 55. I don't understand
23 what that reference was. Will you explain that
1184
1 to me?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 Senator Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: After, in
5 1973, we lowered the speed limit originally to
6 50 and then it went back to 55, over the 10-year
7 period after the speed limit was originally
8 lowered there was a 28 percent reduction in
9 fatalities. So my question to you is, if we
10 increase the speed limit from 55 to 65, do you
11 have any statistical data from the states that
12 have increased the speed limit as to how that
13 affected the number of fatalities?
14 I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
16 Senator Johnson.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you,
18 Senator. Senator Farley would like to speak.
19 Perhaps I'd let him respond to that. Is that
20 what you'd like to do, Senator?
21 SENATOR FARLEY: Respond to that
22 question.
23 SENATOR JOHNSON: O.K. Fine, and
1185
1 then I'll be glad to respond further if you
2 desire.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Farley.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll put it in
7 the form of a question. Did you know, Senator
8 Paterson, that the Lave study in 1992 showed
9 that the statewide fatality rate in those states
10 which adopted the higher speed limit actually
11 declined from 3 to 5 percent?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
13 Senator Paterson.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 Mr. President, I'd like Senator
17 Farley to know that I did not know that. That's
18 why I asked the question, and -- but what I
19 thought might be the case about that particular
20 study is that it was based on miles traveled,
21 not based on the actual increase in the speed
22 limit. If I'm wrong about that, I'd like you to
23 explain it.
1186
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 Senator Farley.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: It's my
4 understanding that it was based on those states
5 that raised the speed limit to 65 from 55.
6 There are so many factors that go into why the
7 fatalities have dropped or raised, and so
8 forth. Quite frankly, I think that the
9 aggressive drunk driving laws throughout the
10 nation had a great deal to do with that. As a
11 matter of fact, so many things take credit for
12 either reducing or being responsible for
13 accidents.
14 I think that -- and I -- Senator
15 Johnson and I have worked on this bill for a
16 number of years, but I -- I truly believe that
17 in New York State, 96 percent of the people do
18 not obey the 55-mile-an-hour speed limit. But
19 we'll talk to that later.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Will -- would
23 Senator Johnson or Senator Farley, or would
1187
1 anyone be willing to answer this question? The
2 Insurance Institute, in a memo I have, says that
3 in 1992, in the 40 states that increased the
4 speed limit from 55 to 65, that the fatalities
5 increased by 17 percent as opposed to a study
6 about the 55-mile-an-hour speed limit conducted
7 from 1982 to 1986.
8 I'm just not necessarily going to
9 vote against the bill. I'm just trying to
10 determine what the increase in the fatalities
11 are.
12 Now, just to be fair to Senator
13 Johnson and to Senator Farley, there are 50,000
14 people who get killed on the highways every
15 year, but we as a society have determined that
16 we're not going to stop driving cars. So I
17 don't want to come across to either one of you
18 as having such a platitude or a high morality
19 that now we're all going to start walking every
20 place we go, or I'll be getting here a little
21 late every Monday.
22 So that the -- all I'm really
23 trying to ascertain, I would think that it would
1188
1 be somewhat of an increase in the fatalities
2 based on the increased speed, but that doesn't
3 necessarily mean that we're not going to do it.
4 We may be incurring a lot of problems and maybe
5 even fatalities from a speed limit that's often
6 too low, but the Insurance Institute does advise
7 us that the fatalities have increased 17 percent
8 in 1992 in the 40 states that have increased the
9 speed limit, and I just want to know if that is
10 consistent with what your understanding is.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
12 Senator Johnson, would you like to reply?
13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I'd like
14 to -- I'd like to discuss this further because
15 you know the old saying, figures can lie and
16 liars can figure, and I'm not saying anybody is
17 lying here, but I'm saying figures can be
18 interpreted or misinterpreted in various
19 manners.
20 Now, a study which I -- that I'd
21 like to refer to here said that those states
22 that have raised their interstate speed limit to
23 65 miles an hour recorded a 6 percent decline in
1189
1 the fatality rate, whereas states that did not
2 raise their limit experienced a much smaller
3 decline of only 2.5 percent.
4 Now, I think this has as much
5 validity as other figures which might have been
6 cited. Now, we may not be talking about the
7 same road because you can understand that, when
8 you can go 55 miles an hour on a dirt road and
9 55 miles an hour on the Thruway and the dirt
10 road is shorter, then they prefer to take that
11 road and skid off the road.
12 On the other hand, when you can
13 go 65 on the Thruway, people -- more people may
14 go on the Thruway figuring there's a legitimate
15 way to travel a little bit faster and get there
16 sooner. So some say they've experienced an
17 increased amount of traffic on the roads which
18 are permitted to go 65. So that may explain the
19 divergence here, but overall there's been a
20 decrease in the fatality rate consistently year
21 by year every year almost, irrespective of what
22 we have done or what the speed limits have
23 been.
1190
1 In fact, it's kind of interesting
2 to know that one of the principal things you
3 could do is to have a consistent speed limit for
4 all vehicles and, if you have that, you have a
5 lot less problems than some vehicles going
6 slower and some going faster, and so forth.
7 I have a chart here. Obviously
8 you can't see it all, but it shows here that
9 from '74 to the last year is '93, there's been a
10 consistent decline in fatalities and accident
11 rates per hundred thousand -- hundred million
12 vehicle miles, almost irrespective of the speed
13 limit, and so I think the speed limit has very
14 little effect on accident rates.
15 You know, before the federal
16 government got into the business of setting
17 speed limits on our highways, the speed limits
18 were set by engineers in the Department of
19 Transportation, the Thruway Authority, and they
20 did it by what they called their 85th
21 percentile, survey the traffic over a period of
22 time, see how fast people are going generally,
23 knock off the 15 percent so-called speeders, and
1191
1 that is the level at which they set the speed
2 limit. That speed limit now is about 66 to 67
3 miles an hour in this state.
4 So if we set the speed limit at
5 65, most people would be conforming with the
6 speed limit. They will be able to travel
7 expeditiously where they want to go without
8 looking in their rear view mirror because they
9 will know they will not be violating the law.
10 Right now, there's nobody in this house who can
11 tell me honestly that he drives to Albany or
12 anywhere else on the Thruway or our other
13 interstates at 55 miles an hour.
14 SENATOR LACK: Senator Levy.
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: If you do, you
16 are an aberration, you're a saint, you're really
17 not credible, but if you say it, I'll believe
18 it.
19 SENATOR LACK: Senator Levy
20 there.
21 SENATOR JOHNSON: So it's hard to
22 believe. Let us be honest. Let us not be -
23 let us not join in the charade which has been
1192
1 put on for too many years by this state of New
2 York and others trying to demonstrate to the
3 federal government that we have a majority of
4 our people complying with the law when we know
5 we don't. The last survey shows 96 percent of
6 the people exceeding 55 miles an hour. O.K.
7 Let's get it in the program. That's all I can
8 tell you.
9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
11 Farley, you were next on the list.
12 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me just say
13 that I rise in support of this bill. I feel
14 very strongly that any piece of legislation or
15 law that is not respected is a bad law. That
16 was evidenced by the Prohibition Act in the
17 '20s. It was the start of organized crime. I
18 think it's also evidenced by the 21-year-old
19 drinking age. If anyone in here thinks that the
20 college students at 20 years of age are not
21 drinking, and so forth, they still believe in
22 the tooth fairy.
23 But let me just say this about
1193
1 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit on the rural
2 interstates, and so forth. I think it's
3 something that the people of this state want.
4 It's evidenced by the fact that 96 percent of
5 the people that drive the rural sections of the
6 Thruway do not obey the 55-mile-an-hour speed
7 limit. As a matter of fact, I think you're
8 safer on these interstate highways at 65 than
9 you are on some of the rural highways at 55.
10 But let me just say this. I
11 think that what we're talking about, one of the
12 criticisms that is always raised, if you raise
13 the speed limit to 50 -- 65, they'll drive 75
14 and 85. I've talked to the Superintendent of
15 State Police. The 55-mile-an-hour speed limit,
16 even though they won't say it, is kind of an
17 embarrassment to the troopers and to the State
18 Police because they have to give you such a
19 latitude, or otherwise they'd be arresting
20 everyone. Yes, they can give you a little bit
21 of grace, but I suspect that they should be
22 arresting people that are flagrantly violating
23 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit on the
1194
1 interstates.
2 It's a good piece of legisla
3 tion. A similar piece of legislation which has
4 passed the Assembly, passed overwhelmingly, I
5 think with around 20 negative votes out of 150.
6 I worked with Assemblyman Bragman on this
7 legislation over the years. We've still got to
8 work out some kinks. I don't think you've seen
9 the final piece of legislation. What he's
10 talking about is a possible study to see how it
11 works out. We don't have any great quarrel with
12 that. I don't want to speak for the -- for all
13 the sponsors, but I suspect that we can work out
14 a piece of legislation which will bring us into
15 reality as to what the speed limit should be in
16 this state.
17 Let me just tell you that the
18 state -- the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, last
19 night their Legislature raised the speed limit
20 to 65, and I understand that the state of
21 Maryland is also -- the governor has spoken
22 favorably on raising the speed limit, so at
23 least we can be consistent. You know when
1195
1 somebody comes into New York State from Ohio, as
2 Senator Present would know, they all of a sudden
3 they've been driving 65 for -- from across
4 country, they hit New York State, and they're
5 immediately breaking the law, almost all of
6 them, as they come into our state.
7 And let me just say something
8 about trucks. A truck actually gets its most
9 fuel-efficient delivery, if you will, at 60
10 miles an hour and, of course, I think you'll see
11 that trucks that are speeding will be arrested,
12 but I think particularly in the rural sections
13 -- and this doesn't apply every place in the
14 state -- for instance, most of Long Island will
15 be exempted except for a small section of
16 Suffolk County, as I understand it, and because
17 that is heavily populated, so I think it's a
18 reasonable piece of legislation.
19 I would ask the support of my
20 colleagues to realize that there are polls that
21 have been taken overwhelmingly support the
22 raising of the speed limit to 65.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
1196
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 Senator Solomon, do you have a question?
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator
5 Dollinger.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I do, Mr.
7 President. Will Senator Farley yield to a
8 question?
9 SENATOR FARLEY: I certainly do.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I find this
11 an intriguing piece of legislation, I'm going to
12 address it in a minute, but my question to you
13 is two years from now when the statistics show
14 that 95 percent of the people, instead of the 96
15 percent of the people that violate the 55-mile
16 an-hour speed limit, that 95 percent are
17 violating the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit, will
18 we then raise the speed limit to 75 miles an
19 hour?
20 SENATOR FARLEY: No, I don't
21 think we will, Senator Dollinger. I think
22 you'll see people who are flagrantly violating
23 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit, will be
1197
1 arrested. That's just taken on the word of the
2 State Police Superintendent.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just again
4 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Farley
5 will yield to another question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
7 Senator Farley, will you yield to another
8 question?
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will,
10 Senator.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What are we
12 going to do then to the State Police to have
13 them more rigorously enforce the 65-mile-an-hour
14 instead of the 55 miles an hour? It seems to me
15 a scofflaw at 70 in a 65-mile-an-hour is the
16 same thing as a scofflaw at 65 in a 55,
17 correct? Going five miles an hour faster than
18 the speed limit. If they don't arrest them now,
19 how do you expect they'll arrest them in the
20 future?
21 SENATOR FARLEY: I expect they
22 will -
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What's your
1198
1 basis for that, again through you, Mr.
2 President?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Farley?
5 SENATOR FARLEY: The same basis
6 that you feel that they won't because I think
7 that you'll find that in Tennessee, and so
8 forth, that have gone to the 65-mile-an-hour
9 speed limit, they don't give you that latitude.
10 The states that are at 55 give a tremendous
11 latitude to the drivers that are breaking the
12 55-mile-an-hour speed limit, because they feel
13 that it's unreasonable.
14 Do you always drive 55 miles an
15 hour on the Thruway -
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
17 SENATOR FARLEY: -- Senator
18 Dollinger?
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I drive on
20 the high side of 55.
21 SENATOR FARLEY: How high a
22 side?
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 55.9
1199
1 usually.
2 Mr. President, I have no further
3 questions.
4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
6 Senator Solomon.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yeah. Will
8 Senator Farley yield, please?
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will,
10 Senator.
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, I
12 heard your comments regarding the impact of
13 raising speed limits to 65 miles an hour. Are
14 you aware that the Insurance Institute studies
15 show that states -- that states that have raised
16 the rural and state limits, about 400 more lives
17 are lost each year because of the higher
18 limits?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
20 Senator Farley?
21 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm aware of the
22 insurance industry's concern with this, but let
23 me just say this, Senator Solomon: The most
1200
1 respected report on this topic, a report to
2 Congress by the National Highway Safety and
3 Traffic Administration issued in May of 1992,
4 explicitly cautions that care should be taken in
5 interpreting changes in rural interstate
6 fatality and travel characteristics.
7 No statistical model is capable
8 of controlling all of the factors that have
9 affected rural interstate fatalities since the
10 enactment of the 65-mile-an-hour speed limits.
11 Again, I think, as Senator Johnson clearly said,
12 you can do almost anything that you want with
13 statistics. What we're talking about is the
14 rural sections of the interstates.
15 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Will
16 Senator Farley yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 Senator Farley?
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes.
20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, what
21 I'm concerned about, maybe you can tell me, in
22 terms of the impact this will have on automobile
23 insurance rates in some of these areas, can you
1201
1 tell me if you've done any studies regarding
2 that?
3 SENATOR FARLEY: No. All I can
4 offer is a speculation. I don't think it's
5 going to have any great impact when you find
6 that most studies have showed that states have
7 -- that have gone to the 65-mile-an-hour speed
8 limit, I told you the Lave study of 1992, that's
9 not that old, that states that have gone to it
10 -- and I can't explain that -- the fatality
11 rate has actually declined; so maybe insurance
12 rates will go down.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
14 will Senator Farley yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
16 Senator Farley, will you yield?
17 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, are
19 you aware that the major factors in determining
20 what the automobile insurance rates are is the
21 accident costs?
22 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me hear that
23 again.
1202
1 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- that the
2 major factor in determining automobile insurance
3 rates are the accident costs?
4 SENATOR FARLEY: Right.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: And in light of
6 that, that according to the Insurance Institute
7 for Highway Safety, a frontal impact of 35 miles
8 per hour has one-third more of -- is a one-third
9 more violent impact than an accident at 30 miles
10 an hour. Have you calculated any of that,
11 looked into any of this, in terms of these
12 automobile insurance costs and how that has an
13 impact?
14 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, I think
15 it's reasonable to assume that an automobile
16 that is going faster that has an impact is going
17 to have greater damage. I think we can all
18 accept that.
19 SENATOR SOLOMON: So if that's
20 going to occur and the severity increases, in
21 fact geometrically, how can you say this is not
22 going to have an impact on insurance rates?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
1203
1 Senator Farley?
2 SENATOR FARLEY: How -- Senator
3 Solomon, I understand your great concern for
4 insurance rates, but answer me this because it
5 just came to me: Did the insurance rates go down
6 on anybody's automobile when the speed limit
7 went from 65 to 55? I don't recall that.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
9 Senator Solomon.
10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, I
11 don't really recall that far back. As I recall,
12 the rates were dropped because, in fact, the
13 federal government had mandated the change in
14 the speed limits. Otherwise we lost significant
15 amounts of highway aid.
16 SENATOR FARLEY: When we went to
17 55 miles an hour -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
19 Excuse me, Senator Farley. Do you have a
20 question of Senator Solomon?
21 SENATOR SOLOMON: As I said, I
22 don't recall, because that was in the '70s as I
23 recall, 1973 or 1974.
1204
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 Senator Farley, you still have the floor.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you.
4 Senator Solomon, I being much older than you, I
5 do recall that when we raised -- lowered the
6 speed limit to 55, my insurance rates went up.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Well -- well,
8 the only thing I do remember about it, Senator
9 -- excuse me, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
11 Senator Solomon, is this on the bill?
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: I guess it's in
13 response to his rhetorical question about
14 insurance rates going up.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
16 Well, go ahead.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Senator,
18 what I do recall is, if it did occur in 1974 and
19 1975, this state was also in the process of
20 changing from a liability system, from the sys
21 tem we used to have, to no-fault. In fact, I
22 believe no-fault was voted in by this Legislat
23 ure in 1976, from a historical perspective. I
1205
1 didn't serve in this Legislature at that time; I
2 know my predecessor did, and what might have had
3 the impact on your rates going up at that point
4 in time, was the current system in terms of the
5 current liability system in terms of automobile
6 insurance rates.
7 I'd like to speak on the bill
8 now.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
10 Yes, on the bill.
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: On the bill.
12 I'm concerned two-fold: (a) is the number of
13 deaths that we've witnessed and increasing over
14 the number of years in certain states that have
15 increased their speed limits and those deaths
16 have a severe impact on society, whether it be
17 with automobile insurance costs, whether it be
18 on the impact of the family, there are many -
19 in addition, those that are not killed by the
20 severity of the impacts at the highest speeds
21 has a tremendous impact on society from
22 automobile insurance costs to people that lose
23 their jobs, to people that have accidents while
1206
1 they're on their job traveling from Point A to
2 Point B, and I think this is very serious
3 business.
4 I think the fact that another
5 state has a speed limit and when you come into
6 the state of New York you have to lower your
7 speed limit to 55 is not a valid reason. For
8 that matter, I don't have a district that's on
9 the Canadian border but, as I recall, on the
10 Thruway generally the cars that fly by anyone
11 are the ones that are from Canada because they
12 can't seem to find a brake or their accelerators
13 are weighted quite heavily, and I think the
14 Canadian speed limits are extremely high.
15 I think we really have to be
16 concerned with the impact that we're going to
17 see. You can ride down the Thruway and you'll
18 see most people do not adhere to the 55-mile-an
19 hour limit and, as I recall, before they had the
20 55-mile-an-hour limit imposed, most people did
21 not adhere to the 65-mile-an-hour limit. In
22 fact, there was an Assemblyman from my area who
23 was killed in a horrible automobile accident in
1207
1 the late '50s as a result of him driving at an
2 excessive speed, and I think what we're doing is
3 we have a few people that have raised this
4 issue.
5 How much time is really going to
6 be saved and is that amount of time that's saved
7 in an hour, that ten minutes, drive worth
8 someone's life that's attributed to the increase
9 in the speed limit? And I'm not so sure that
10 that's a valid trade-off. You're not directly
11 related to that person, it's a statistic, but
12 people that are related to that person and when
13 it's attributed to that, that's an issue.
14 The other thing that you should
15 be aware of, Senator, which I'm not sure too
16 many people know, has anyone studied or looked
17 at the fact that in most cases the beam of an
18 automobile headlight doesn't travel a sufficient
19 distance to give you sufficient stopping
20 distance in front of that vehicle or object in
21 front of you at 65 miles per hour? That's
22 another issue that hasn't been raised, and I
23 don't think has been looked at in many of these
1208
1 debates regarding the 65-mile-per-hour speed
2 limit; and indeed I think that's a concern that
3 has to be examined.
4 I think we're making a horrible
5 step. I don't think there's been enough study
6 on this. I think we're going in the wrong
7 direction because the fact of the matter is we
8 want to decrease the number of lives that are
9 lost on our highways today. We don't want to
10 increase that. We don't want to participate in
11 anything that should increase that. We all know
12 even during the Vietnam era, we still lost more
13 lives on our highways in the United States than
14 we did men over in Vietnam, and I think that's
15 something we should really be concerned about in
16 this issue.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 Senator Levy.
19 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Thank you
20 very much, Mr. President.
21 I think that it's really
22 unfortunate that -- that this bill is here this
23 morning being discussed, but we really did not
1209
1 have a choice because Senator Johnson, Senator
2 Farley, myself, Senator Bruno, we were involved
3 in discussions with the other house in trying to
4 respond to the real problems, the real concerns
5 that have been raised on the floor this morning
6 and some more that I'm going to talk about, and
7 the Assembly went forward and passed their
8 legislation.
9 So I agree with -- with the
10 sponsors that we've got to make a statement on
11 this important issue, and that's why this bill
12 is here today, and I'm going to vote for this
13 bill.
14 I'm only going to vote for this
15 bill because -- because the Majority Leader has
16 put together, and the Assembly has gone along
17 with it, a conference committee system. If we
18 didn't have a conference committee system in
19 place and the two houses were not going to get
20 together and discuss this bill, I would be
21 vehemently opposing this legislation, but I'm
22 not going to do it.
23 Let me talk about some of my
1210
1 concerns and echo some of the concerns that have
2 been raised on this floor and concerns that
3 absolutely must be met, and I want to tell you
4 that, if those concerns are not met, not only am
5 I not going to vote for this bill when it comes
6 back, I'm going to do everything in my power to
7 defeat it.
8 Now, here are some of the
9 concerns. Number one, the Thruway Authority
10 tells us that when the Thruway Authority was
11 constructed -- and it's not the Autobahn -- when
12 the Thruway Authority was constructed, it was
13 constructed for a maximum speed of 70 -- 70
14 miles an hour. Our interstate and state
15 highways, when they were built, they were built
16 with an eye towards an absolute maximum speed
17 from a safety standpoint of 70 miles an hour.
18 That's what DOT tells us. That's what the
19 Thruway Authority tells us.
20 Now, Senator Farley and Senator
21 Johnson and Senator Bruno and others are
22 absolutely right when they say that we -- that
23 people operating motor vehicles, particularly on
1211
1 the throughways, the interstates and the state
2 highways, are driving an average speed of 64,
3 65, 66 miles an hour, which rightly is a de
4 facto repeal of the 55 -- 55-mile-an-hour speed
5 limit in the state of New York. It is de facto
6 repealed, because not only is the public
7 operating motor vehicles at these speeds but the
8 law enforcement officers really on rare, rare
9 occasions are enforcing the 55-mile-an-hour
10 speed limit. So that's what we're dealing with
11 -- with factually, on an ongoing basis.
12 Now, what are the concerns? And
13 Senator Paterson and Senator Solomon really have
14 raised those concerns, and I don't buy -- I
15 don't buy for a moment that when we go to 65,
16 all the drivers are going to be like Senator
17 Dollinger and they're only going to drive at
18 65.9. The real concern is that, when we go to
19 65, people are going to go 70.
20 That's a concern, but an even
21 greater concern is we are going to have people
22 out there going 75 on highways that are
23 engineered for a maximum speed of 70, they're
1212
1 going to be going 80 and they're going to be
2 going above those speeds.
3 Now, why does that concern me? It
4 concerns me not only for the average person
5 operating a motor vehicle, but it concerns me
6 for the four-leaf clover, that rare person who
7 is transporting children to school. It's a
8 four-leaf clover because the overwhelming
9 majority of people who are transporting kids to
10 or from school or the school bus or school van
11 are not going to go over 55 miles an hour, but
12 for that four-leaf clover that decides that he
13 or she is going to go 60, 65 or above, we've got
14 to deter that.
15 Now, one of the problems that we
16 have with deterring that kind of a situation is
17 when the federal people in 1973 gave us 55 miles
18 an hour, what they said was that no state in the
19 nation that hasn't put into place a differential
20 that we don't have the power to make a
21 differential for somebody operating a school bus
22 or school van or other vehicle transporting
23 school children. We don't have the power to do
1213
1 it based upon the 1973 federal law. But there's
2 a way to deal with that, and I'm going to tell
3 you how it has to be dealt with in the future.
4 Another grave concern that I have
5 are trucks over 18,000 pounds. We have trucks
6 with cargos that weigh up to 75 tons operating
7 on the highways of the state of New York and on
8 the Thruway, and that's a concern, but it's a
9 greater concern when we think for a moment that
10 those trucks, as well as other vehicles, operate
11 in all kinds of weather.
12 But it's an even greater concern
13 because, when we think about the cargos of some
14 of those trucks -- explosives, gasoline,
15 propane, liquefied natural gas and radioactive
16 materials, that is a concern that has to be
17 dealt with, but the fed's have said we really
18 cannot deal with that based upon the '73 law.
19 But we can.
20 When the Transportation Committee
21 had our new Commissioner Richard Jackson before
22 us yesterday, I talked to him privately before
23 yesterday, and at our meeting we discussed
1214
1 dealing with deterring somebody that operates
2 that truck over 18,000 pounds, somebody that
3 operates a school bus, even Senator Farley and
4 Senator Johnson and Senator Dollinger and me and
5 everybody else that operates a motor vehicle,
6 and the Commissioner -- the Commissioner has
7 agreed that he is going to look at points.
8 Now, points is a major, major
9 deterrent to people operating motor vehicles.
10 He's going to look at the point system. The
11 fed's said we can't do a law, but nobody said
12 that Richard Jackson and Governor Pataki cannot
13 change the point system to deter anybody who is
14 going to drive over 65 miles an hour and
15 particularly over 70 miles an hour, and
16 particularly if it's a truck over 18,000 pounds
17 or it's a school bus. So that's one way to
18 deter a real concern that people, when you go to
19 65, are just going to self-adjust and say, I'm
20 going to get -- I'm going to be able to go 70,
21 75, and the law enforcement people are not going
22 to cite me and give me a ticket.
23 Also realistically, part of the
1215
1 problem that we have here is the problem for law
2 enforcement, because with the technical radar
3 equipment that we have today, in some jurisdic
4 tions where they have older equipment, not only
5 is there a de facto repeal of the speed limit,
6 but because of the qualifying of the equipment
7 for a prosecution if somebody is given a ticket,
8 the law enforcement people in some jurisdictions
9 automatically give an additional five miles that
10 relates to the reliability of the equipment. So
11 that immediately takes us from 65 when we go to
12 65, to 70.
13 State Police say with some of -
14 some of the new technical equipment, they will
15 use a two-mile-an-hour differential and not the
16 differential that is used on -- on other
17 equipment.
18 So what we should be doing here,
19 at least in my judgment, is some of the things
20 that we've talked about with points, some of the
21 things that we -- we have talked about or I'm
22 going to talk about in a moment, and that is we
23 have reached out to the state Department of
1216
1 Education. The Commissioner has the power,
2 through his rules and regulations, to say in
3 those rules and regulations, without a problem
4 with the federal people, that no school -- no
5 motor vehicle transporting pupils in the state
6 of New York can travel in excess of 55 miles an
7 hour, and we have to be assured -- we have to be
8 assured that the Commissioner can do that,
9 because if he does do it, he has the power to
10 disqualify anyone operating a vehicle
11 transporting pupils from ever working again if
12 that person is convicted of going over 55 miles
13 an hour or any limit -- any limit that the
14 Commissioner sets.
15 And finally, when we get this
16 bill back, we've got to -- we've got to try to
17 -- we've got to try to resolve and explain on
18 this floor the disparity in studies, and that's
19 an ongoing process and, when it comes back, I
20 for one am going to try to address myself to
21 that, because I have the same statistics that
22 Senator Solomon and Senator Paterson have, only
23 the statistics that I have from the Insurance
1217
1 Institute of Highway Safety doesn't give a 17
2 percent increase in fatalities, it gives a 28
3 percent increase in fatalities, and that is in
4 sharp -- in sharp contrast to -- to the study
5 that Senator Farley has and has reviewed,
6 certainly in good faith.
7 Finally, another dimension that
8 we've got to take a look at, and incidentally
9 we're going to be putting this all into a piece
10 of legislation. It will be considered by the
11 Transportation Committee when we come back, the
12 concerns that I've laid out for you this morning
13 on this floor, and hopefully and expectantly
14 we're going to have that bill before the house
15 that relates to reminding the Commissioner of
16 Motor Vehicles that he's got to look at points,
17 a mandate to the Commissioner of Education to
18 deal with the transporting of school pupils and,
19 if we're going to go to 65, we've got to
20 increase the fines and other penalties for
21 people who operate a motor vehicle and certainly
22 those people that operate any type of a motor
23 vehicle if they are traveling on our state
1218
1 highways and our Thruway, certainly in excess of
2 70 miles an hour, in excess of the speed that
3 the highways themselves were engineered for, and
4 we're going to deal with that in a piece of
5 legislation.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
7 President. Will Senator Levy yield to a
8 question?
9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
11 Senator Levy, do you yield?
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Levy,
13 first of all, before I ask a question, let me
14 compliment you on your attire, although I do
15 think that the blue tie with the red stripes
16 goes better than the red with the blue.
17 I -- through you, Mr. President,
18 my question is I know that the committee
19 involving critical choices in transportation has
20 done marvelous work on a series of topics. Has
21 CTC dealt with the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit?
22 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, they dealt
23 with it about two or three or four years ago,
1219
1 and the recommendation -- the recommendation of
2 the commission through the report was that we do
3 not exceed 55, but that recommendation was made
4 when we had a governor who was opposed to -- who
5 was opposed to raising the speed limit. It had
6 Mr. Bragman, who is now the sponsor of Senator
7 Farley's bill in opposition to raising the speed
8 limit. I think previously it had Mr. Graber; it
9 had the opposition of Commissioner White, then
10 Commissioner Egan, and Commissioner Aducci and,
11 as Senator Farley pointed out, I was the author
12 of the report.
13 But I think -- I think
14 circumstances, Senator, obviously, obviously
15 have changed, and I think what Senator Farley,
16 the comment that Senator Farley made really -
17 really was appropriate to the discussion that
18 we're having. We've got a law on the books,
19 let's enforce the law because people don't have
20 respect for any laws if important laws are
21 violated. So if we're going to go this route,
22 then let's go the route, but then let's enforce
23 the law and, if we got somebody going over 70
1220
1 miles an hour, whether they're operating a motor
2 vehicle or a truck up to 75 tons, let them hit
3 -- let's hit them with a four by eight just to
4 remind them what the law is in the state of New
5 York.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
7 you, Mr. President, just one other question for
8 Senator Levy.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
10 Senator Levy, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Frankly, your
13 comprehensive approach to this is basically
14 changing my mind about my view about this bill.
15 I wish the comprehensive approach that you've
16 talked about, respecting school buses and trucks
17 and additional points, I wish that were all
18 packaged in this bill. My hope is that the
19 conference committee will do that. But let me
20 go back to the school bus problem.
21 Through you, Mr. President, isn't
22 there a problem on a highway if the cars are
23 going 65 and the trucks are going 65, but the
1221
1 school bus is only going 55? Doesn't it become
2 a problem of differential speed that can create
3 a traffic risk?
4 SENATOR LEVY: Well, in my
5 conversations with the State Police because I
6 asked the question that you're asking, but I
7 asked the question in regard to -- in regard to
8 trucks over 18,000 pounds and the answer I got
9 back from the State Police is the type of roads
10 that we are talking about, and we're obviously
11 not talking about dirt roads and that -- I'm
12 going to take a look at those statistics to see
13 how many dirt roads have a speed limit that was
14 raised in other states to 65 miles an hour.
15 The State Police said to me that
16 based upon the rural interstates and the rural
17 -- the rural parts of the Thruway, it would
18 not -- if the fed's permitted us to do so, it
19 would not have been a problem to require trucks
20 over 18,000 pounds to go at 55 miles an hour
21 because of -- because of those roads, because of
22 the fact that they are not congested and because
23 of the ability to change lanes and -- and to
1222
1 move from the fast line to the slow -- slow
2 lane. That's what the State Police told me.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: State Police
4 opinion was that there would be, in essence, two
5 different speed limits.
6 SENATOR LEVY: That that would
7 not be a safety problem on the -- on the Thruway
8 and the highways that we're talking about. If
9 we were talking about the Long Island Expressway
10 in Nassau County, it would be a problem but not
11 on the roads and the highways we're talking
12 about.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
14 other question, again through you, Mr.
15 President. In the work -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
17 Senator Levy, do you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In the work
20 that CTC did on the speed limit issue, was there
21 any investigation of the possibility of limiting
22 the time in which the speed limit was increased
23 to non-winter months to avoid the complications
1223
1 of winter driving at the higher speed?
2 SENATOR LEVY: Well, my
3 understanding of the federal law is that we -
4 we are -- we are precluded -- we are precluded
5 from doing that. Now, it is -
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Precluded
7 from having a differential for different times
8 of the year.
9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Now, under
10 the '73 law, and what is interesting is the
11 legislative intent, the legislative intent, when
12 -- when the federal people did 55, was to keep
13 legislatures like ours and others in the country
14 when we went to 55 from giving trucks a higher
15 differential above 55. So the intent of the law
16 is exactly -- the intent of the federal law,
17 when it was passed in '73, is exactly contrary
18 to what the law is doing to permit -- to
19 prohibit us other than as I've outlined dealing
20 with trucks over 18,000 pounds and school
21 buses.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
23 you, Mr. President, to Senator Levy.
1224
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
2 Senator Levy, you continue to yield.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it your
4 intention in the Transportation Committee, if
5 this bill becomes law, if the conference
6 committee produces a bill that has the
7 comprehensive approach that you -- you've talked
8 about, to continue to monitor the implementation
9 of this -- I know it sunsets, I believe in '98
10 -- in that three-year period to both do the
11 issues about fatalities, do the issues about
12 differential speed, examine the school bus issue
13 -- I know we've come a ways in school bus
14 safety through your efforts and CTC's efforts -
15 can we anticipate that, if we do this sort of, I
16 would say experiment, but we're going back,
17 we're not going forward, we're doing something
18 we did before. Would it be your intention to
19 monitor that carefully and determine -
20 SENATOR LEVY: Well, number one,
21 I'm not the sponsor of the bill. The Assembly
22 does have a sunset; this bill does not have a
23 sunset and through the conference committee
1225
1 procedure, I definitely think (a) we ought to -
2 ought to have an oversight and that oversight
3 ought to repeat -- report annually to the
4 Governor and the Legislature on the impact of
5 the increase in the speed limit if, in fact, New
6 York does go that route, and one of the issues
7 that we were talking about had to do with the
8 sunset and again, it -- it is not Senator
9 Johnson, and it's not Senator Farley and it's
10 not Senator Bruno that said, We don't want to
11 talk and come to the Leg... come to the Senate
12 and you folks who are in the Assembly go to the
13 Assembly with a -- an agreed upon piece of
14 legislation.
15 We were there. We were talking.
16 We wanted to continue to talk and then everybody
17 got up one morning and they were out there with
18 their bill, and that's why we are here today.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
22 Senator Johnson.
23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
1226
1 just a couple of things I'd like to mention.
2 There are fears, of course, that,
3 if we raise the limit to 65, people taking a 10
4 mile-per-hour differential will go 75. I
5 suppose if we made it 70 they'd go 80. People
6 say that, but they say it not knowing that
7 they're misspeaking for the most part, and I'll
8 tell you why.
9 The states that have -- have gone
10 to 65 found out that their compliance has gone
11 up from five or ten percent to 80 to 85 percent
12 with the law, so when you set the limit at a
13 reasonable level of speed, there will be much,
14 much more compliance. In fact, it's almost
15 identical with the so-called 85th percentile
16 that highway engineers have traditionally set
17 the speed limits, so you will not have people
18 going faster.
19 In fact, there is very little
20 difference right now in studies of speeds on New
21 York State highways and the speeds on the
22 highways where 65 is the legal limit. They're
23 traveling almost identical speeds in both states
1227
1 so it's not going to really change the speed at
2 which most people travel.
3 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Johnson
4 yield to a question?
5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
7 Senator Johnson, do you yield for a question?
8 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, if that's
9 -- if that's your conclusion, I know it's your
10 belief, then would you be supportive of -
11 because if people are not going to violate the
12 law, would you be supportive of dealing with
13 school buses, trucks over 18,000 pounds,
14 increasing points and increasing fines because
15 if people are not going to do it, then those
16 rare four-leaf clovers that do it, we ought to
17 smack them with a four by eight?
18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, the
19 penalty for speeding in this state is lower than
20 many other states. They found that enforcement
21 -- consistent, realistic enforcement has much
22 greater impact on accidents and fatalities than
23 the absolute speed limit at which the maximum is
1228
1 set. So I'd say, yes, enforcement makes a lot
2 of sense.
3 There is a problem, and Senator
4 Dollinger shared that with you, as well of the
5 variation in speeds of vehicles and that could
6 cause accidents, so I think you'd have to have
7 some particular regulations about school buses.
8 Maybe they should always have to have their
9 flashers on or something else that you know
10 they're traveling slower than the normal speed.
11 As you know, on the Thruway right now if you go
12 below 45, the trucks have to have their flashers
13 on.
14 There should be some way to
15 distinguish between slower traveling traffic so
16 we don't all pile up behind those people and
17 cause accidents. But yes, there's no doubt
18 about it, Senator, that that's a very precious
19 cargo. I think most probably don't travel on
20 throughways or interstates, but those that do
21 can certainly -
22 SENATOR LEVY: How about trucks
23 over 18,000 pounds and particularly trucks that
1229
1 have cargos like explosives, gasoline, propane,
2 radioactive material, those types of cargos
3 where the substantial portion of the cargo that
4 the truck is carrying are those hazardous and
5 volatile materials?
6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I
7 think you made a point and so did others here
8 that we -- we may need some further study in
9 this case. Now, I don't know what other states
10 have done with those types of vehicles, whether
11 that's a problem or not. Statistically, how
12 many trucks carrying uranium have gone off the
13 road and exploded and decimated a city, Senator?
14 I don't know, Senator. I haven't heard of any
15 of those.
16 SENATOR LEVY: But, Senator
17 Johnson -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
19 Senator Levy, Senator Johnson has the floor. Do
20 you wish to have him yield further?
21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator, I
22 think we can explore all those things.
23 SENATOR LEVY: Senator -
1230
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senator
2 Levy.
3 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
5 Senator Johnson has the floor.
6 SENATOR LEVY: Will Senator
7 Johnson yield to a further question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
9 Senator Levy, Senator Johnson has the floor.
10 Senator Johnson, do you wish to yield further?
11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
12 President.
13 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Johnson,
14 you may have overlooked or not have been aware
15 of it, but approximately six weeks ago, an
16 operator of a gasoline truck fell asleep in
17 Senator Holland's district so I-287 and hit a
18 bridge stanchion and not only killed himself and
19 blew everything, caused a significant amount of
20 damage to -- to homes in the vicinity of I-287,
21 so it does happen.
22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Levy,
23 we have had a truck go on fire on Long Island.
1231
1 Was he going over the speed limit, Senator, or
2 was speed a factor in that accident? I don't
3 think it was. I haven't heard that, Senator.
4 So it may or may not be related to speed what
5 you're talking about, but certainly we should
6 pay attention to these things in any event.
7 You know, it's kind of
8 interesting that none of your statistics in some
9 cases showing increased accidents, we're talking
10 about a statewide accident fatality rate,
11 including all highways, in most cases and in
12 some states going at 65 they had increased
13 fatalities on the country roads posted at 55, so
14 how do you relate those to the speed limit, I
15 don't know. There is no direct relationship, no
16 other states that I know of that have gone to 40
17 -- to 65 have reverted to 55 because of safety
18 reasons.
19 So they've all gone to that;
20 they've stayed at that level. There are no
21 studies showing that insurance rates have gone
22 up in those states where the speed limit has
23 gone up ten miles per hour, and the simple
1232
1 reason is because people are traveling at those
2 speeds now in the states where it's 55. In the
3 states where it's 65, where the roads permit,
4 they're traveling at a comfortable speed in the
5 neighborhood of 65, 68 miles an hour, something
6 like that.
7 So yes, we're going to have a
8 conference committee. We're going to discuss
9 these things, but the fact is there's no reason
10 for this state to be so particular or unique
11 because we're not unique among other states.
12 Similar highways, similar populations, similar
13 mix of vehicles and similar results will be
14 effected, and all we're saying is let's not make
15 our people violators.
16 Let the police concentrate on
17 people going, say, over 70 miles an hour and
18 really crack down on those people and not divert
19 attention to people going 60 on a slow day or
20 whatever, they'll pull somebody over for
21 violating the speed limit where there's no
22 danger to themselves or anyone else or to
23 society in general.
1233
1 So, Senator, all I can say is
2 that this governor wants to get our state in
3 tune with the other states, simplify, eliminate
4 regulation. Let us not have the highest
5 regulations and the highest taxes where we drive
6 business, drive jobs out of the state. Let us
7 not have the most -- lowest speed limit in the
8 region, the most capriciously enforced speed
9 limit in the region where people have to look in
10 their rear view mirror instead of looking where
11 they're going.
12 I think for many good reasons, it
13 makes sense to legitimatize the proper speed at
14 which people are driving. I'd say let us
15 concern ourselves with their consent. Let us
16 not go ahead, and I'm sure that in the future as
17 in the past, the fatality rate will continue
18 going down as highways improve, as cars improve
19 and as education, alcohol enforcement and speed
20 limit enforcement continues.
21 Thank you, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
23 Senator Farley.
1234
1 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 I just want to compliment Senator
4 Levy for his cooperation in this. This has been
5 around for a long time. I think some of your
6 points that you make are very well taken. Of
7 course, I think that governors on -- on school
8 buses might be a good idea too. Most of the
9 school buses that I rode on as a child had a
10 governor on it any way. But certainly that's
11 something, all of those things that we can look
12 at.
13 Let me just conclude by saying,
14 who supports this bill, which might be of
15 interest to some of you: The Daily Gazette of
16 Schenectady; the National Motorists Association,
17 the American Automobile Association, Governor
18 Pataki, the Nassau-Suffolk Contractors
19 Association, ABATE of New York, the Yonkers
20 Herald Statesman, Newsday, Poughkeepsie Journal,
21 Ralph Martin for the Albany Times-Union, the
22 Saratogian, the Buffalo News, the Empire Star
23 Gazette -- Elmira Star Gazette, the Syracuse
1235
1 Herald American, the Utica Observer Dispatch,
2 the Norwich Evening Sun, the Rochester
3 Times-Union and the great bulk of the people in
4 this state.
5 I urge its passage.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
7 Senator Dollinger.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President, I apologize if I'm following what
10 would have been the closing comments from the
11 sponsors. Frankly, I guess I'll use a little -
12 a little parody of all those signs you see on
13 the road.
14 It seems to me the group that's
15 exceeding the speed limit in this issue is the
16 state Legislature. The Assembly may have been
17 zipping along about 75, we're now going about 72
18 in what should be a 55-mile-an-hour zone because
19 we ought to be listening to the advice of
20 Senator Levy and doing a complete package which
21 will get us to the point we need to get to.
22 I think we ought to look at the
23 yield sign, come to a stop sign and do what you
1236
1 do at the railroad crossing, look and listen to
2 what he's got to say before we put the
3 accelerator back to the floor on this bill and
4 drive along.
5 The point he makes, I think, is
6 very well taken, the point about school buses,
7 the point about trucks, the issues involving
8 insurance, I think the study, frankly, I think
9 is critical. If it's a 28 percent increase in
10 fatalities, if that's the fact, at least in my
11 opinion, this bill becomes a far more -- far
12 greater prospect of costing people lives in the
13 state of New York and, frankly, the benefits
14 suddenly become outweighed by larger numbers of
15 fatalities.
16 I like his approach. Frankly, I
17 came in to vote against this bill. I'm now
18 going to vote in favor of it with the message
19 that what we're doing is we're simply driving
20 our little car that has now these two bills into
21 the conference committee for servicing, that
22 we're going to take this car apart, we're going
23 to figure out where the nuts and bolts are,
1237
1 we're going to try to figure out how to put it
2 back in a comprehensive way to make it work and
3 then we can get behind the wheel, put the car in
4 drive and figure out whether we're going to go
5 65 or 55 when we've got the full picture.
6 I think Senator Levy's points are
7 very well taken. I'll vote for the bill under
8 those circumstances. If it doesn't come back
9 without the changes that Senator Levy needs,
10 that is increasing the penalties over 65 so that
11 people like me who, back when the speed limit
12 was 65 and I drove on Route 81 north to
13 Watertown, everybody went 78 or 79 miles an
14 hour, the same way they now go 68 or 69 miles an
15 hour. Everybody drove over 75 miles an hour
16 back in 1971 and '72 in the North Country up in
17 Senator Wright's district. They all kept flying
18 by nearly at 80 miles an hour.
19 If we can solve that problem, we
20 can solve the problem of school buses and the
21 large trucks, then we've got a bill that we can
22 be proud of. We can put the car in gear and do
23 the job.
1238
1 Thank you. I'll be voting in
2 favor, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
4 Senator Abate.
5 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Mr.
6 President. Would Senator Levy yield to a
7 question? Before that -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
9 Senator Levy, will you yield to a question?
10 SENATOR ABATE: I did not know my
11 colleague, Senator Dollinger, was such an expert
12 on cars, almost like a mechanic. But I don't
13 have the same operational knowledge, but I'd
14 like to also compliment you on your cogent and
15 compelling arguments and the concerns you
16 raised, the concerns about buses and trucks and
17 the need for real and meaningful enforcement.
18 But because of that, is it
19 advisable today to pass this legislation,
20 because we don't have any assurance that the
21 conference committee will give real weight to
22 the arguments and concerns you've raised and
23 wouldn't it be better practice to put this bill
1239
1 in a -- back into committee?
2 Let's address these concerns,
3 bring it back to the conference, and I must say
4 I'm really proud of what we've done today. We
5 had some real debate and some reasonable issues
6 were raised and discussed. Let's not lose sight
7 of what you have done today. Let's bring it
8 back to committee and let's produce another
9 bill.
10 SENATOR LEVY: Well, the
11 conference -- the way the conference committee
12 is going to work is, the final product is coming
13 back to the Assembly and coming bank to the
14 Senate, and you and I are going to have an
15 opportunity to debate -- to debate the work
16 product of the conference committee and either
17 pass it or defeat it.
18 So what -- what Senator Johnson
19 and Senator Farley and Senator Bruno and the
20 other sponsors of this bill are saying is that
21 there's been a de facto repeal of 55. People
22 don't have respect for the law. The Assembly
23 had -- has unilaterally -- unilaterally decided
1240
1 to move forward with their own piece of
2 legislation. Therefore, the sponsors of the
3 bill want to make a statement to the people of
4 the state that we recognize the problem, we
5 recognize the need to move forward to 65 and we
6 want to make a statement to that effect and
7 that's really all that this bill is doing is
8 making a statement.
9 SENATOR ABATE: But I'm
10 suggesting that a week from now, we could make
11 the same statement but in a stronger way, in a
12 comprehensive way. If we leave out the issues
13 you've raised, we send a message that these
14 issues are not important and I can not support
15 this legislation without the addressing of the
16 enforcement issue which is so critical to the
17 overall safety of the people that utilize our
18 roads and highways.
19 SENATOR LEVY: I think, Senator
20 Abate, that -- that what happens in legislat
21 ures, including ours, when you have to negotiate
22 a bill like this, such a vitally important
23 highway safety bill or some of the other very,
1241
1 very -- other very, very important bills that we
2 have before us, unless you are able to show to
3 the Assembly that you are able to pass a bill
4 that makes a statement on where you are in a
5 concept with -- with the concept underlying the
6 bill, so what you really do is you undercut your
7 ability to negotiate if you can't get a bill
8 through your house, and that's really what we're
9 doing here.
10 SENATOR ABATE: I just -- I share
11 the concerns you've raised. I don't think this
12 covers it. We go into uncharted territory. We
13 have -- we may have an eventual bill that's
14 agreed upon by both houses that will not address
15 your concerns. I hope it happens, but I don't
16 have full confidence in that process.
17 Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
19 Senator Solomon.
20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 Couple of points because I
23 started raising questions, and I'm going to try
1242
1 to be as brief as possible. Again, I will make
2 this available. It's basically something I got
3 from the Alliance of American Insurers.
4 Regarding speed/travel, and speed
5 does include scratches in four basic ways before
6 we even get down to some of the specifics that
7 were raised by Senator Levy: Increases the
8 distance a vehicle travels when a driver detects
9 an emergency until that driver reacts; increases
10 the distance needed to stop a vehicle once the
11 emergency is perceived; crash severity increases
12 by the square amounts of speed, so when a crash
13 -- when speed increases from 40 to 60 miles per
14 hour, the speed goes up 50 percent while the
15 energy related to that crash which is done in a
16 lot of the studies which we've all seen over the
17 years, whether it be with air bags or dummies,
18 et cetera, more than doubles which is
19 significant in terms of what happens to the
20 person in that automobile.
21 Some of the other things that we
22 should be aware of is that the higher the speed,
23 the less that air bag or those bars put in the
1243
1 doors for side impact crashes today can -- the
2 less of an impact that can actually have on
3 protecting the occupants because those safety
4 devices become less effective.
5 In addition, I think we have to
6 really look at trucks and we have to consider we
7 have the double trucks, in fact we've even had
8 proposals to allow the triple trucks to travel
9 on our Thruway. We have to remember that 98
10 percent of the people killed in two-vehicle
11 crashes deal with large trucks and passenger
12 vehicles.
13 In addition, some -- one other
14 statistic is telling from the National Highway
15 Safety Institute, deals with urban and rural
16 roads. Rural roads account for 40 percent of
17 all vehicle miles traveled, but they account for
18 61 percent of all speed-related fatalities which
19 is very significant if you're saying your
20 constituents want these higher speeds because
21 it's your constituents are the ones that
22 eventually pay, some with their lives, and I
23 think that's the reason that we all have to take
1244
1 a second look at this stuff.
2 This -- excuse me. This bill,
3 and it's not so simple to say, Well, let's leave
4 the speed limit and there's no cost on society
5 and there's no cost on anyone else, and I don't
6 want it on my conscience when we have a horrible
7 accident with one of these double trailer trucks
8 because they're traveling at 80 miles an hour,
9 it's only 10 miles or 15 miles above the speed
10 limit.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
12 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
14 would you recognize Senator LaValle, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
16 Senator LaValle.
17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President,
18 there will be an immediate meeting of the Higher
19 Education Committee in Room 124 of the Capitol.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Continue now
21 with the debate.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senator
23 Tully.
1245
1 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 I had not intended to speak on
4 this bill this morning and, quite frankly, I
5 hadn't made my mind up on which way I was going
6 to do, but I do wish to complement the sponsors,
7 Senator Johnson and Senator Farley, and Senator
8 Levy and the others that have spoken, for the
9 stimulating dialogue, because it has given me an
10 opportunity to rethink my feeling about the
11 bill.
12 I think the concerns addressed by
13 Senator Levy are very much in tune with my own
14 concerns, and I am prepared now to vote for this
15 bill on the basis of the conference committee
16 seriously considering the issues which have been
17 raised by Senator Levy in a very cogent manner.
18 He reminded me that many years
19 ago, when I was in the military I had occasion
20 to drive a tank. The tank weighed 49-1/2 tons.
21 The tank had a maximum speed of 40 miles an hour
22 and occasionally, if you were young as I was,
23 you were inclined to let the tank move along and
1246
1 sometimes get in the dust trail of the tank in
2 front of you. When that happened, you
3 immediately attempt to brake the tank, and in
4 order to put that brake down, you had to lean
5 all the way back, almost stand up to get the
6 tank to come to a halt after many, many yards
7 had gone by.
8 The fact that Senator Levy tells
9 me there are tanks -- trucks, excuse me, in
10 excess of 18,000 pounds carrying loads that are
11 in excess of 75 tons or in the area of 75 tons,
12 indicates to me that there is something that
13 each and every one of us should be deeply con
14 cerned about when we talk about trucks going 55
15 miles an hour, never mind 65 or 70.
16 Certainly there must be some
17 enforcement. There must be something that
18 concerns those drivers that makes sure that they
19 don't exceed the speed limit, that makes sure
20 that they protect the other users of the road
21 and certainly we should be concerned about those
22 vehicles which carry volatile materials,
23 chemicals, explosives, and our children who are
1247
1 being driven to and from school. At least these
2 concerns are very, very serious ones.
3 However, on the sure basis that
4 they're going to be considered by the conference
5 committee, I am prepared at this point to vote
6 for the bill.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
9 Senator Marchi.
10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
11 there are a number of us who are co-sponsors.
12 It's very obvious that, by the excellent
13 presentations made by Senator Farley and Senator
14 Johnson and the observations of Senator Levy,
15 that we have the basis for moving forward but
16 much more of a positive nature, I think, is the
17 development of the conference committee.
18 Now, frequent reference was made
19 to the conference -- conference committee, the
20 conference process between the two houses. This
21 is a new development in our -- in our methods of
22 approaching legislation to bring the -- to the
23 conference responsible proponents of both houses
1248
1 interacting on an informed basis, and this is a
2 very, very positive -- I don't want to call it a
3 pilot project at this point, but as this process
4 goes forward, I think it's going to augur for
5 more mature and more responsive legislation, a
6 better quality of legislation as we approach
7 other problems of an urgent nature.
8 So let's keep in mind that we are
9 talking about a process, an ongoing process and
10 procedure which will certainly give us enhanced
11 opportunity to make balanced judgments and -
12 and have the vehicle by which credibility and a
13 consensus is built on a much wider basis than we
14 have had on other bills of a controversial
15 nature.
16 So this is an excellent
17 opportunity, and I certainly praise the lead
18 sponsors for assuming the responsibility of
19 doing this, and I think it -- it's a harbinger
20 of good things to come on -- on just the
21 processing of legislation generally.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
23 Senator Jones.
1249
1 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I, too,
2 didn't plan to speak today. I basically came
3 here to listen, as I did in transportation, but
4 I do want to thank Senator Levy. He also
5 presented the same concerns at the
6 Transportation Committee, and I want to assure
7 my colleague, Senator Abate, that I'm in year
8 three and I still haven't quite learned the
9 logic of continuing to pass bills that we know
10 won't become law, but I guess it is a good thing
11 as Senator Marchi said that this year we do have
12 the conference committee and the issues that
13 Senator Levy raised, that I totally agree with,
14 will be discussed and I think I agree with the
15 Senator, this is a good test case.
16 Let's see how it goes, but I can
17 assure you I will be joining Senator Levy in
18 opposing this bill if it comes back in the same
19 form, without the safeguards.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
21 Senator Oppenheimer.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I
23 think the things that I was going to say have
1250
1 just been said. I was going to mention the fact
2 that we really don't have a history with
3 conference committees, and the logic that
4 Senator Levy just put forth, I think, makes
5 sense that, if we go into the conference
6 committee with a bill that we've passed, I think
7 we're in a stronger, much stronger position than
8 if we go into the conference committee with
9 something that hasn't passed this house.
10 I'm the ranking Democrat on the
11 Transportation Committee, and I must say I
12 support all the concerns that Senator Levy has.
13 I think many of us on the committee did feel
14 that these were very valid concerns and at this
15 juncture, I think the best thing is to go
16 forward, pass the bill, see what comes out of
17 conference committee, and I agree if these
18 issues aren't addressed, and addressed, you
19 know, in a manner that many of us want it
20 addressed, we'll probably not support it next
21 time, but I think at this juncture it's wise for
22 us to support it in this house.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
1251
1 Senator Nanula.
2 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 I originally was very much in
5 support of this bill, and I went to committee
6 earlier in the week and Senator Levy had
7 presented some very salient points, and for that
8 reason I, too, support conditionally this bill.
9 I feel that it does require a
10 further investigation regarding the issues that
11 have been addressed here today and discussed,
12 and presuming those are addressed sufficiently
13 and adequately, I will be supporting the bill
14 when it comes before this chamber in the
15 future.
16 Thanks.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Does
18 any other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section.
20 SENATOR LEVY: Explain my vote.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
22 Senator Levy to explain his vote.
23 SENATOR LEVY: Just the point -
1252
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Can we
2 get the last section read first, Senator?
3 The Secretary will read the last
4 section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take place 90 days after it shall have
7 become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: I
12 recognize Senator Levy to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. There was
14 just one point that I neglected to make that I
15 did want to put out on the record, that there
16 are 11 states prior to '73 that created a lower
17 differential for trucks, and there were seven -
18 seven states with school buses, and none of
19 those states have repealed the differential to
20 permit trucks and school buses to go in excess
21 of 55 miles an hour, and I neglected to put that
22 on the record, and I think it ought to be part
23 of the record.
1253
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
2 Senator Cook.
3 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
4 there's no way to prove that people will drive
5 faster if we increase the speed limit to 65, but
6 I think that we all -- we all understand and
7 know that, in fact, people will drive faster and
8 that, when that happens, the danger on the
9 highways increases.
10 I don't know how to vote on bills
11 except to try to get information about what
12 would probably happen, so we contacted the
13 federal Department of Transportation and got the
14 actual statistics in the states that have
15 already changed the speed limit from 55 to 65.
16 These are the fatalities only on the rural
17 sections of the interstate highways, so they
18 don't relate to two-lane roads or dirt roads or
19 anything else. These are specifically related
20 to two-lane -- to the interstate highways and,
21 in fact, the increase in fatalities that was
22 reported by the federal DOT was 24 percent.
23 I'm not prepared to participate
1254
1 in something that I think will increase the
2 death rate on the interstate highways in New
3 York State by almost a quarter. For that
4 reason, I'm voting in the negative.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my
6 vote.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
8 Senator Dollinger to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I
10 will vote in favor of this bill to send it to
11 conference committee. If it doesn't come back
12 with the protections that Senator Levy has
13 talked about and if it doesn't come back with an
14 explanation of the point that Senator Cook just
15 made, I think Senator Levy mentioned earlier
16 that we're going to resolve the issue and
17 somehow reconcile the various studies that have
18 analyzed the effect of the 65-mile-an-hour speed
19 limit, if we don't get a satisfactory answer
20 reconciling that study mentioned by Senator
21 Cook, the other studies that have been talked
22 about, and come up with a better defined number,
23 if it doesn't have the protections in, I will
1255
1 vote no next time. I'm voting yes, Mr.
2 President, this time, but I will vote no if we
3 don't get that reconciliation and the
4 protections that Senator Levy mentioned.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Get a
6 result of the roll call, please.
7 Senator Paterson to explain his
8 vote.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. President.
11 I think if we could simplify
12 this, that if you raise the speed limit you're
13 going to to some degree raise the fatality
14 rate. Senator Levy corrected me, and I'm glad I
15 was corrected, that it wasn't 17 percent, it was
16 actually 28 percent. If we put the protections
17 that he is suggesting into this legislation, if
18 we listen to the Insurance Institute for Highway
19 Safety that tells us that in the states of
20 Maryland and Virginia, for instance, that had
21 the same speed limit, 55 in 1988, that when they
22 increased the speed limit in Virginia that the
23 -- those going over 70 miles an hour went up to
1256
1 29 percent where the number had been 8 percent,
2 and in Maryland where they kept the speed limit
3 the same it stayed at 7 percent, I think it
4 would be very instructive that we can raise the
5 speed limit, but we have to have those added
6 protections.
7 When a car is going 60 miles an
8 hour, it moves at 88 feet per second. At 88
9 feet per second, it takes 360 feet for the car
10 to come to a full stop. Now, the reason you
11 don't have to be 360 feet behind the car in
12 front of you is because that car also has to
13 come to a stop too, but there has to be a
14 greater distance between the cars. That's the
15 speed at which speed is measured as distance
16 over time. Velocity is speed over time, and
17 what Senator Solomon was admonishing us was that
18 the measure of momentum is mass times velocity
19 and the -- and that is increasing exponentially
20 as the speed increases.
21 So without telling you, Mr.
22 President, what my major was, I will vote for
23 the bill, but I think that we have to put the
1257
1 protections in eventually that Senator Levy is
2 asking for.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
4 Senator Waldon to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President.
7 I had the good fortune of
8 traveling to South Carolina recently. I'm going
9 to vote for the bill. And when I exited the
10 airport in my rental car, I noticed that cars
11 were going by me almost as if I was standing
12 still, and the part that amazed me most, Senator
13 Levy, was that many of these cars were being
14 driven by very silvery-haired people. In fact,
15 the last car I saw before the sign let me know
16 why I appeared to be standing still and they
17 were moving very quickly forward, was driven by
18 an elderly woman who barely could get her eyes
19 over the steering wheel, and she was moving in
20 South Carolina. I was driving 55, 56, in that
21 range, miles per hour, being in a foreign state
22 and knowing that I had no juice in terms of my
23 law enforcement experience, I needed to
1258
1 acclimate myself.
2 The point I'm trying to make is
3 that, if silvery-haired people in South Carolina
4 can drive at 65 miles an hour and do it well,
5 I'm sure that those similar in our state can and
6 I believe that our younger people will also ad
7 here to the rules.
8 I vote in support of this
9 legislation. I hope it does well and bodes well
10 for the state of New York.
11 Thank you very much, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
14 Secretary will announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
16 the negative on Calendar Number 70 are Senators
17 Abate, Cook, Holland, LaValle, Leichter, Mendez,
18 Solomon and Volker. Ayes 42, nays 8.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
23 President. If you could return to motions and
1259
1 resolutions, and I believe there's a resolution
2 at the desk by Senator Marchi. If you would
3 have it read in its entirety and then recognize
4 Senator Marchi, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
6 Secretary will read the entire resolution.
7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
8 Resolution, by Senator Marchi, mourning the
9 death of George Felton of Staten Island.
10 WHEREAS this legislative body has
11 learned with regret of the death on January 9,
12 1995 of George Felton of Port Richmond, Staten
13 Island, a retired New York City fire marshal,
14 African-American leader and acclaimed community
15 and political activist, at the age of 67;
16 George Felton, a native of Ports
17 mouth, Virginia, began his exemplary life in New
18 York State in 1932 after being brought here as a
19 child;
20 After graduating from McKee High
21 School, George Felton became a police officer
22 and underwent training in criminal investiga
23 tion, firearms instruction and studied in the
1260
1 department's bomb squad school;
2 He switched over to the New York
3 City Fire Department in 1955 and served tours of
4 duty in Manhattan and Mariners Harbor, Staten
5 Island, before transferring to the department's
6 Bureau of Fire Investigation, where he served
7 with distinction until his retirement in 1974;
8 George Felton came to wide public
9 attention in the early 1970s when, as a fire
10 marshal, he and his colleagues investigated the
11 fire bombing of a New Dorp residence; their
12 efforts were instrumental in bringing four men
13 to justice in federal court in 1973;
14 In 1988, George Felton was
15 honored by the National Association for the
16 Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) with the
17 William Morris Award for his work in the case;
18 His enviable record of public
19 service involved active leadership in the Staten
20 Island branch of the NAACP where he served two
21 terms as president. He earned that unit's
22 gratitude and special honors for his untiring
23 efforts in behalf of the community;
1261
1 George Felton's effective range
2 of public service activities led him to service
3 with the Urban League, the Staten Island YMCA,
4 the Staten Island Lions Club, the Staten Island
5 Boy Scouts, Heritage House and the Goodhue
6 Children's Center, those involvements prompted
7 many of those organizations to honor him with
8 special awards and citations;
9 This energetic Staten Islander
10 managed, despite many demands made on his time
11 for civic, charitable and community
12 undertakings, to take on and fulfill leader
13 ship roles in the local Democratic Party for
14 more than 20 years, and assisted in several
15 major campaigns;
16 George Felton was a devoted
17 member of several churches including the Shiloh
18 A.M.E. Zion Church, West Brighton, where he
19 served on the board of trustees, the Fellowship
20 Baptist Church in Mariners Harbor, and the
21 International Christian Center in Granite
22 ville;
23 A true family man, George Felton
1262
1 and his wife, the late Susie Porter Felton, had
2 a son, Duane, and three daughters, Diane and
3 Linda Felton, and Karen Handley, as well as nine
4 grandchildren;
5 This legislative body wishes to
6 give official recognition and approbation to an
7 individual who served his community and state so
8 admirably;
9 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED
10 that this legislative body pause in its
11 deliberations to honor the memory of George
12 Felton, salute his accomplishments in bettering
13 his community, state and nation, and convey to
14 his family the deep appreciation felt for the
15 service rendered by Mr. Felton; and
16 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a
17 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be
18 transmitted to the members of the Felton
19 family.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
21 Senator Marchi.
22 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
23 George Felton was a good friend, a close
1263
1 collaborator on many worthwhile initiatives in
2 the Staten Island community. You have heard the
3 recitation of the various services that he
4 performed, but we should reflect also on the
5 fact that, when he entered into the police
6 department, it was a year in which there were
7 numerous, numerous, many, many competitors and
8 it was a -- the result of a winnowing out
9 process -
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Could
11 we please have some order in the chamber; please
12 hold conversations to a minimum.
13 Senator Marchi.
14 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 -- a winnowing out process, Mr.
17 President that marked him as a special
18 individual. He performed so credibly, and in
19 the community he -- his leadership was
20 exemplary. He had an uncanny gift for building
21 a consensus, for getting -- moving people
22 towards worthy goals in a way that the consensus
23 reflected the feelings that he was trying to
1264
1 convey.
2 I might add, Mr. President, after
3 we take the roll call, which I know will be
4 favorable that present with us to your right in
5 the balcony, his son Duane, a leading barister,
6 attorney-at-law in Staten Island, and his wife
7 Dorothy, his daughter -- their daughter, Karen
8 Felton Handley, her husband Mason Handley, and
9 grandchildren Jachine Chandler and Diane Felton
10 and Jeanine Atherton and Michael Atherton,
11 members of this family. They are very close to
12 so many of us in the borough of Richmond which
13 is soon to become the city of Staten Island,
14 that after the roll call, I trust, Mr.
15 President, since you also represent part of that
16 wonderful community, that you will recognize
17 them.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Thank
19 you, Senator Marchi.
20 The question is on the
21 resolution. All in favor signify by saying
22 aye.
23 (Response of "Aye.")
1265
1 Opposed?
2 (There was no response. )
3 The resolution is adopted.
4 It is with pleasure that I also
5 welcome the family of George Felton as I also
6 represent Staten Island. It is a pleasure to
7 have you with us here today. Thank you.
8 (Applause)
9 Senator Skelos, we have a report
10 of standing committees.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please
12 read the report from standing committees?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin,
16 from the Committee on Local Government, reports
17 the following bill directly for third reading:
18 Senate Bill Number 459-A, by
19 Senator Present, an act to amend the General
20 Municipal Law, in relation to the powers of the
21 county of Chautauqua Industrial Development
22 Agency.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: With
1266
1 the permission of the Majority Leader, would you
2 suffer an interruption?
3 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator Galiber
4 very wisely pointed out that there may be others
5 who would like to join and have their names on
6 this resolution, so there are others and we
7 might assume that -- we might assume that
8 everybody wants to be on the resolution.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Any
10 member wishing to be on the resolution can be
11 put on. Senator Skelos, do you wish to open it
12 up to all members except those that decline?
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, no
14 objection.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Every
16 one will be put on the resolution. If you do
17 not wish to be put on the resolution, please let
18 us know.
19 Continue the reading.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle,
21 from the Committee on Higher Education, reports
22 the following bills directly for third reading:
23 Senate Bill Number 35, by Senator
1267
1 Holland, authorize the Salvation Army Eastern
2 Territory School for Officers;
3 1186, by Senators Volker and
4 LaValle, Education Law, in relation to the
5 practice of optometry;
6 1918, by Senator LaValle, and
7 others, Education Law, and the Public Officers
8 Law, in relation to the Board of Regents of the
9 University of the State of New York;
10 2178, by Senator LaValle,
11 Education Law, in relation to the Board of
12 Regents of the University of the State of New
13 York.
14 All bills reported directly for
15 third reading.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
17 Without objection all bills to third reading.
18 Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
20 with the consent of the Majority, would you
21 please call up Senator Present's bill, Senate
22 Bill 459-A.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
1268
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 101, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number
4 459-A, an act to amend the General Municipal
5 Law, in relation to the powers of the county of
6 Chautauqua Industrial Development Agency.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
8 is a home rule message at the desk. Secretary
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
17 bill is passed.
18 Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
20 President. At this time would the Senate please
21 stand at ease.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senate
23 stands at ease.
1269
1 Senator Dollinger.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
3 President, I just didn't quite catch what we
4 just did. Could you just tell me what bill we
5 just approved? I know it's on my desk. Is it
6 this one; is this the Cattaraugus County bill?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senate
8 Bill Number 459.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: A.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Got it, thank
12 you, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
14 Senate will stand at ease.
15 (Whereupon at 11:40 a.m., the
16 Senate stood at ease until 11:56 a.m.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
18 will come to order.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
21 recognizes Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
23 stand in recess until 2:00 p.m. sharp.
1270
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
2 will stand in recess until 2:00 p.m. sharp.
3 (Whereupon at 11:57 a.m., the
4 Senate stood in recess, reconvening at 2:02
5 p.m.. )
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Senate will come to order. Members please take
8 their chairs momentarily.
9 Senator DeFrancisco.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There
11 appears to be no further business, and that
12 being the case, the Senate is adjourned to
13 February 27th at 3:00 p.m., intervening days are
14 legislative days.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
17 February 27th, the regular time, 3:00 p.m., all
18 intervening days to be legislative days.
19 (Whereupon at 2:03 p.m., the
20 Senate adjourned.)
21
22
23