Regular Session - March 9, 1995
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10 ALBANY, NEW YORK
11 March 9, 1995
12 10:02 a.m.
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15 REGULAR SESSION
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20 SENATOR ROBERT J. DiCARLO, Acting President
21 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senate
3 will come to order. I ask everyone present to
4 please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
5 Allegiance.
6 (Those present joined in the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 In the absence of clergy, may we
9 now bow our heads in a moment of silence.
10 (There was a moment of silence.)
11 Reading of the Journal.
12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
13 Wednesday, March 8. The Senate met pursuant to
14 adjournment. Senator Kuhl in the chair. The
15 Journal of Tuesday, March 7, was read and
16 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
18 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
19 as read.
20 Presentation of petitions.
21 Messages from the Assembly.
22 Messages from the Governor.
23 Reports of standing committees.
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1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Stafford.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: An immediate
7 meeting of the Committee on Finance in Room 332.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
9 is an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee
10 in Room 332.
11 Senator Bruno, are you ready for
12 the calendar?
13 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
14 Can we now take up the noncontroversial
15 calendar?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 40, by Senator Stafford, Senate 634, proposing
20 an amendment to Section 1 of Article 14 of the
21 Constitution.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: On the
23 resolution, call the roll.
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1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside,
3 please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
5 Withdraw the roll call, and lay it aside,
6 please.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 118, by Senator Saland, Senate 1417, an act to
9 amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the Family
10 Court Act.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 137, by Senator Rath, Senate 207, an act to
23 amend the Family Court Act, in relation to the
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1 return of children who have run away from their
2 parents.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 139, by
14 Senator Skelos, Senate 1741, an act to amend the
15 Social Services Law, in relation to access to
16 certain conviction records.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it
21 shall have become a law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
23 the roll.
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1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 140, by Senator Saland, Senate 2105, an act to
7 amend the Social Services Law and the Public
8 Health Law, in relation to disclosure of HIV
9 related information.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect 90 days after it shall
14 have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 141, by Senator Saland, Senate 2108, an act to
23 amend the Family Court Act, in relation to
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1 judicial notification of child care.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
14 Senator Levy.
15 SENATOR LEVY: I would like
16 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
17 on Calendar 40.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
19 Senator Bruno?
20 The bill was laid aside.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
23 Senator Bruno.
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1 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we go to the
2 controversial calendar, and we're waiting the
3 report from the Finance Committee with Senator
4 Stafford, which should be returning momentarily.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
6 Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 40, by Senator Stafford.
9 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
11 Explanation has been asked for.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator Stafford
13 is chairing the Finance Committee meeting, Mr.
14 President, but it is my understanding that this
15 legislation that I am not totally familiar with
16 is fairly routine, and it is something that is
17 done periodically as an accommodation, and the
18 Senator on behalf of his constituency and the
19 good people of this state is doing just that.
20 This doesn't set any precedent
21 that I am aware of. It is done, as I said,
22 occasionally as an accommodation, and the Senate
23 passed this bill last year, and I'm not sure
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1 that there was a great deal of discussion about
2 it.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
4 Senator Connor.
5 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President.
6 I don't think we need a great deal of discussion
7 about this. I would note that when it passed
8 last year, there were 13 members in opposition
9 myself, Senator Dollinger, Senator Galiber,
10 Senator Hoffmann, Senator Jones, Senator
11 Leichter, Senator Markowitz, Senator Oppenheimer
12 Senator Santiago, Senator Solomon, Senator
13 Stachowski, and also Senator Goodman on the
14 other side. So the members might want to be
15 aware of that.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
17 Senator Oppenheimer.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If I may, I
19 had questioned what the stand was of the
20 environmental groups because I had heard that at
21 this junction they were changing over into a
22 positive, so I have just hung up now with the
23 environmental advocates which was the EPL and,
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1 indeed, they have not changed and, indeed, this
2 is their absolutely worst designation of "three
3 smokestacks," which you know is terrible,
4 terrible. So I think that the arguments that we
5 have put forth in the last decade that I have
6 mentioned still hold true and that there has not
7 been an amelioration of division that existed.
8 So thank you for pointing up the
9 people that were opposed.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
11 Senator Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
13 President. The exchange of land which is an
14 implied contract is really an exchange of
15 promises that the land that would be transferred
16 is of equal value. The Sierra Club has issued a
17 memo on this bill that demonstrates pretty
18 straightforwardly that the last time this was
19 done relating to the Piseco Airport in the Town
20 of Arietta there was that exchange of land, and
21 that, later on, an investigation demonstrated
22 that this was not a land of equal value, that it
23 was actually ecologically inferior.
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1 Now, with the amount of time that
2 this legislation has been debated in this
3 chamber -- and it has come before us several
4 times, and I don't have a problem with the
5 sponsor wanting to continue to bring it forth to
6 try to convince those of us in the chamber that
7 this is right, but where we have a problem is
8 why would we have to wait for enabling
9 legislation to determine the value of the land.
10 In a sense, we're putting the cart before the
11 horse. What we are doing by passing this
12 legislation is relying, possibly to our
13 detriment, that the land that will be exchanged
14 will be of equal value.
15 We are not arguing in this
16 particular case that there was unauthorized use
17 of the land. There is really an adverse
18 possession that the golf course has. It's been
19 this way since the turn of the century. But
20 what we're saying is that the land exchange
21 should be of equal value.
22 What also is a little disturbing
23 about the legislation is that when we look just
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1 at Article 14 of the Constitution, we are really
2 mandating to make sure that we do still have a
3 forest preserve and that we still have some land
4 that demonstrates the artistic and cultural
5 value that New York State has, particularly in
6 the Adirondack area and in the Catskill area.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Excuse
8 me, Senator Paterson.
9 Could we please have quiet in the
10 house. Thank you.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
14 Senator Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
16 much, Mr. President. This is an important issue
17 to a number of people, the Environmental
18 Protection Law has really given us their
19 strongest admonition that we pay attention to
20 the fact that we have granted these exchanges
21 constitutionally ten times in the past; and to
22 some degree, we are not sustaining the character
23 of what the Article 14 in the Constitution
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1 mandates for us to do. Rather than being
2 thought of as an exception, it's really begun to
3 become very common that we just change our
4 constitutional mandate when we feel like it.
5 I would urge a no vote on this
6 particular issue, and thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
8 Senator Farley.
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 I just want to -- Senator
12 Paterson, you alluded to the Piseco Airport
13 situation. That was my constitutional amendment
14 which passed statewide by a hair's breath. The
15 New York Times supported it, many editorials
16 around the state.
17 But let me just tell you how
18 ridiculous this is and how oppressive it is for
19 the people to try to live in the Adirondacks.
20 That's the only airport in the Central
21 Adirondacks. It's a little tiny airport that
22 they use in the case of emergency to fly
23 somebody to a hospital or many, many other
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1 things. But the trees at the end of the runway
2 had grown too tall so that the planes as they
3 were taking off were going to crash into the
4 trees and were having to dodge the trees, and
5 they couldn't cut these trees because of the
6 Constitution of the State of New York.
7 Well, I disagree that the land
8 was not of equal value that we exchanged. In
9 order to trim these trees, we had to amend the
10 Constitution and had a statewide vote of the
11 people of the State of New York so people
12 wouldn't kill themselves as they were taking off
13 from this airport. It's ludicrous.
14 The resentment that has built up
15 -- and I don't even represent the area any
16 more. The resentment that is built up by the
17 people that live there because it is so
18 difficult and the restrictions are so great that
19 we have to have a statewide vote, amend the
20 Constitution of the State of New York, in order
21 for people to protect their life and liberty.
22 Now, here we're talking about the
23 Lake Placid Club that is trying to exist up
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1 there, and I am confident that this is a fair
2 exchange, and I urge that this amendment pass in
3 this house because I'm sure that it is
4 responsibly drawn up.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
6 Senator Stafford.
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
8 President. I certainly want to thank our
9 leader, Senator Bruno, and Senator Farley and
10 all who are supporting this very sensible piece
11 of legislation.
12 I can stand here on the floor
13 today and share with you that the Adirondack
14 Council supports the bill, and that is a group
15 that is very concerned with the Park, and they
16 work very hard. I would share with you and, of
17 course, emphasize that that shows that all
18 "environmental" organizations aren't against
19 it.
20 Now, what this bill is, it's
21 analogous to what was just pointed out
22 concerning Piseco. Also, as Senator Bruno said,
23 this passed last year.
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1 Now, think for a minute, please.
2 We have a golf course in Saranac Lake. It's
3 called Saranac Inn. We played the golf course
4 for years. We have had people with jobs,
5 washing dishes, people working at Saranac Inn in
6 every other type of activity. I did what I just
7 pointed out, wash dishes.
8 Now, this is part of tourism. It
9 is what we need. If we don't have it, we
10 starve. I will share with you -- I will go with
11 the surveyors now, but I will share with you
12 there is a real difference of opinion whether
13 the state even needs this piece of legislation;
14 and that for years the golf course has been used
15 and owned privately. In other words, frankly,
16 it is a boundary dispute which is very easy to
17 have.
18 We have worked it out now whereby
19 we will exchange land and we can keep two holes
20 on the golf course that we would lose if they
21 took the land away.
22 Now, key -- I emphasize this.
23 The exchange will have to be approved by the
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1 Legislature, so this is just setting it in
2 motion, and we still will have to have another
3 approval of the Legislature before this ever
4 takes place, and I assure you this is part of
5 our lifeblood up there. Many of us who have
6 lived up there for 75-80 years like myself get a
7 bit concerned when all at once we are told that
8 Saranac Inn Corporation does not own these two
9 holes. I frankly differ, but, again, we agreed
10 upon the survey, and we'll have another approval
11 here before this all takes place.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
13 Senator Paterson.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
15 President. In the case of the Piseco Airport,
16 just for example, we're not debating the land
17 exchange here today. We're not even quarreling
18 with the land exchange; and when you have a land
19 exchange and you are comparing the values, the
20 fact that the land may not be equal ecologically
21 does not mean that you would not want to make
22 the exchange. There are times when, for some
23 public benefit, you would allow that to happen
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1 because there is something that you are able to
2 cure by doing it and you would probably give up
3 a piece of land that is greater than the value
4 you are getting back; and in this case, as
5 Senator Farley pointed out, it would be the
6 airport.
7 But what we are actually just
8 saying is what we would consider to be standard
9 business policy, that when you make an exchange
10 that you have an idea of what the value is of
11 the land that you are receiving; and for this to
12 become an enactment of condition such that every
13 time somebody wants to take property away from
14 the preserves or some of the most precious land
15 in our state, land we can never get back once we
16 conferred upon an objective that would no longer
17 -- that would deprive it of its natural
18 character, this is when we would hope that we
19 would have an idea of what the ecological value
20 of the land is that we are receiving.
21 There is no reason -
22 particularly since this legislation has existed
23 for such a period of time, there is no reason
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1 that we should not have an answer to that
2 question, particularly since the golf course
3 actually started to be used in Saranac around
4 the turn of the century.
5 And so, to state that we'll find
6 out later on what we are actually getting is to
7 invite a surprise that perhaps we may not like
8 down the road. That's why I cited the example.
9 When we look at the actual situation at hand in
10 the present case, again, this might be a
11 decision that we would want to make in spite of
12 what the value of the land is that we're
13 getting. But to forfeit the opportunity to know
14 that value and pass the legislation and wait for
15 enabling statute that is not known is not
16 anything that an individual would do in a case
17 that involved your own personal decisions, and
18 it is certainly not one that we should do on
19 behalf of the constituents of the state
20 especially when we are looking at what we were
21 mandated to do in Article 14 of the New York
22 State Constitution which is to actually preserve
23 land.
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1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Senator Stafford.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would just
5 say to Senator Paterson, who always is a very
6 worthy adversary, when you are talking about the
7 value of the ecological -- the value there
8 ecologically, do you remember the "reasonable
9 man" theory, or how you describe a reasonable
10 man? That's right where we are; and when it
11 comes to ecology and what one person thinks
12 about this part of the park or another part of
13 the park, I would suggest to you that one man's
14 floor is another man's ceiling. It's really
15 where we are when we try to explain that.
16 Obviously, this is in a very nice
17 part of the park. For any of you who have not
18 taken a canoe trip on Hole Pond, I certainly
19 invite you, if you're ready to carry your canoe
20 for about two hours when you want to get onto
21 the next pond. But it is very, very valuable.
22 You know, I always say this and I
23 emphasize it because I represent the area -- but
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1 it is always said and it's a valid argument
2 that, you know, it's land and we'll never be
3 able to get it back. But, you know, the people
4 that live up there, it's their life and if they
5 are pushed into poverty and don't have the
6 opportunity for a job such as at this operation,
7 they will never get another life, either another
8 minute or another year, and this is important,
9 and I only suggest that to emphasize this piece
10 of legislation and what it does for our area.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: On the
12 resolution, call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll on
14 the resolution.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
16 Results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar Number 40 are Senators
19 Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Goodman, Leibell,
20 Markowitz, Nanula, Oppenheimer, Paterson and
21 Senator Stachowski, also Senator Jones. Ayes
22 34. Nays 11.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
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1 resolution is adopted.
2 Senator Bruno, that completes the
3 controversial reading of the calendar.
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
5 May we now return to reports of standing
6 committees. I believe there is a committee
7 report from Finance, and I would ask that it be
8 read and adopted.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
10 Without objection, reading of report of standing
11 committees.
12 Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
14 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
15 following bill:
16 Senate Print 2971, an act to
17 amend Chapters 50, 52 and 53 of the Laws of 1994
18 and making appropriations for the support of
19 government.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
21 Without objection, direct to third reading.
22 Senator Bruno.
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
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1 Can we now call up Calendar Number 173.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Secretary will read.
4 There is a substitution at the
5 desk. Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford
7 moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from
8 Assembly Bill 5494 and substitute it for its
9 identical Senate Bill, Calendar Number 173.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
11 Substitution ordered.
12 Senator Bruno.
13 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
14 Read the last section.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
16 is a message of necessity from the Governor at
17 the desk. Read the title.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 173, Budget Bill, Assembly Print 5494,
20 substituted earlier, an act to amend Chapters
21 50, 52 and 53 of Laws of 1994, making
22 appropriations for the support of government.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
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1 Senator Bruno, do you wish to accept the message
2 of necessity from the Governor?
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Without
4 objection.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: All in
6 favor of accepting the message, signify by
7 saying aye.
8 (Response of "Aye.")
9 Opposed.
10 (There was no response.)
11 The message is accepted.
12 Read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
19 Senator Dollinger.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
21 President. I rise to explain my vote. I'm
22 going to vote in favor of this bill. I simply
23 point out to my colleagues that one of the
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1 things that I know that this governor as the
2 governor before him has proposed is that we look
3 at the Rockefeller drug laws and the
4 implications on our prison system, that we look
5 at alternatives to incarceration and the impact
6 on our prison system, because otherwise the
7 $58 million additional prison costs which is
8 contained in this deficiency will become the
9 norm instead of the exception.
10 I'm going to vote in favor, Mr.
11 President. I hope that we in this body will
12 look to methods to try to reduce that overall
13 cost which, as we all know, has been growing
14 significantly, continues to grow, and as
15 evidenced by this deficiency bill is growing
16 still.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
18 Results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. Nays
20 zero.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 Senator Bruno.
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1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. I
2 would like to remind my colleagues in the
3 Republican Conference that we will have a
4 conference immediately following the conclusion
5 of this session. Hopefully we can be in the
6 conference by 20 of 12:00. 20 of 12:00 -- of
7 11:00, pardon me -- my glasses. Thank you.
8 With all the help I have around
9 me, wouldn't you think, Mr. President, that I
10 could be more accurate, surrounded by all this
11 competency.
12 But it will be 20 of 11:00 sharp.
13 And there now being no further
14 business to come before the Senate, I move we
15 stand adjourned until 3:00 p.m. on Monday, March
16 13, 1995, intervening days being legislative
17 days.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
19 Without objection, the Senate stands adjourned.
20 (Whereupon, at 10:28 a.m., Senate
21 adjourned.)
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