Regular Session - March 27, 1995

                                                                 
2550

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                        March 27, 1995

        10                          3:02 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
2551

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

         3       will come to order.  Ask members to find their

         4       places.  I'd ask the members and the staff

         5       together with all members in the gallery, our

         6       visitors, to rise and join with me in saying the

         7       Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag.

         8                      (Whereupon, the Senate and those

         9       present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to

        10       the Flag.)

        11                      We're very pleased today to be

        12       joined by the Reverend Fagans, the Pastor of the

        13       First Presbyterian Church of Troy.

        14                      Reverend Fagans.

        15                      REVEREND ERIC FAGANS:  Thank you.

        16                      Let us pray.

        17                      Creator God, saints tell us that

        18       You made us for Yourself with hearts restless

        19       till they find their rest in You.  Such

        20       sentiments are rarely felt within these walls,

        21       and even though we aren't a religious body and

        22       though we may refer to ourselves and one another

        23       with less than religious terminology at times,











                                                             
2552

         1       yet, today, we ask You to generate within us

         2       something of this restlessness, this essence,

         3       this distant drum beat and high calling, for we

         4       know without a soaring vision we shall be held

         5       down by lesser desires.

         6                      Reconciling God, we are being

         7       challenged to work miracles this week.  So far

         8       no quick solutions have come to the complex

         9       issues which confront us and the equally

        10       intricate entanglements of mind and conscience.

        11       You invite us to build bridges to span yawning

        12       chasms, but we are having difficulty reaching

        13       bedrock.  Grant us Your grace that we might

        14       penetrate to the stones of indifference and the

        15       clay-like mire of strong-held opinions and the

        16       swift flowing currents of demonstrations to find

        17       that solid substance upon which we can build.

        18       Give us hard hats not harsh language, cable

        19       fashioning equipment not weak single strands

        20       that, together, we may reach across this abyss.

        21                      Finally, God of New Life, we feel

        22       a bit like Gulliver tied down by the

        23       Lilliputians, strong leaders held captive by the











                                                             
2553

         1       forces and figures beyond our control; yet we

         2       feel a new wind blowing, a new hope perking, a

         3       new beat pounding within our hearts, sweeping

         4       across this body.  You have called us.  Now work

         5       through us, honestly struggling, not waiting for

         6       another, but initiating the process, bringing

         7       forth from the confusion and the strenuous

         8       quality of debate and rigorous work of

         9       compromise something of ecstatic beauty fit for

        10       such a time as this.

        11                      These things we pray in the name

        12       of the Christ.

        13                      Amen.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

        15       you, Reverend Fagans.

        16                      Reading of the Journal.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        18       Sunday, March 26.  The Senate met pursuant to

        19       adjournment.  Senator Farley in the chair upon

        20       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        21       Journal of Saturday, March 25, was read and

        22       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing











                                                             
2554

         1       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

         2       read.

         3                      Presentation of petitions.

         4                      Messages from the Assembly.

         5                      Messages from the Governor.

         6                      Reports of standing committees.

         7                      Reports of select committees.

         8                      Communications and reports from

         9       state officers.

        10                      Motions and resolutions.

        11                      Senator DiCarlo.

        12                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President.

        13       On behalf of Senator Larkin, on page 24, I offer

        14       the following amendments to Calendar Number 198,

        15       Senate Print 2655, and ask that said bill retain

        16       its place on Third Reading Calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       DiCarlo, the amendments are received and

        19       adopted.  The bill will retain its place on the

        20       Third Reading Calendar.

        21                      The chair recognizes Senator

        22       DiCarlo.

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Also, Mr.











                                                             
2555

         1       President, on behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on

         2       page 8, I offer the following amendments to

         3       Calendar Number 51, Senate Print 16, and ask

         4       that said bill retain its place on Third Reading

         5       Calendar.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         7       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

         8       will retain its place on the Third Reading

         9       Calendar.

        10                      The chair recognizes Senator

        11       Sears for a motion.

        12                      SENATOR SEARS:  Mr. President.

        13       On page 18, I offer the following amendments to

        14       Calendar Number 230, Senate Print number 210B,

        15       and ask that said bill retain its place on the

        16       Third Reading Calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

        19       will retain its place on the Third Reading

        20       Calendar.

        21                      Chair recognizes Senator Hannon

        22       for a motion.

        23                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.











                                                             
2556

         1       On page 23, Calendar Number 185, Print 3323, I

         2       first of all would like to remove the star,

         3       which is a sponsor star, and I would like to

         4       offer up the following amendments and move their

         5       adoption.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         7       Amendments are received and adopted and a

         8       sponsor star is removed.

         9                      Chair recognizes Senator Hannon

        10       for another motion.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

        12       Also, on behalf of Senator Lack, on page 10,

        13       Calendar Number 110, Print 2135, I offer up the

        14       following amendments and move their adoption.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

        17       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        18                      Senator Bruno, that brings us to

        19       the calendar.

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        21       Can we now take up the noncontroversial

        22       calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The











                                                             
2557

         1       Secretary will read the noncontroversial

         2       calendar.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

         4       Calendar Number 143, by Senator Saland, Senate

         5       Print 2119.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       154, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1045A, an

        11       act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation

        12       to disciplinary action.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
2558

         1       157, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2223, an

         2       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         3       Law, in relation to allowing participating

         4       employers in the New York State and Local

         5       Employees Retirement system.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is laid aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       178, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1298, an act

        10       to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to

        11       allowing an assessment of mortgage in lieu of a

        12       certificate of discharge.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       208, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2495, an

        18       act to amend Chapter 395 of the Laws of 1978,

        19       relating to moratoriums on the issuance of

        20       certificates of environmental safety.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        22       will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
2559

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       209, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2724, an

        10       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,

        11       in relation to limiting access to commercial

        12       fisheries and marine waters and declaring a

        13       temporary moratorium.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
2560

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       216, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3354, an

         3       act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

         4       relation to activities by former state officers

         5       and employees.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      Senator Bruno, that completes the

        17       noncontroversial calendar.  What is your

        18       pleasure?

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Will you

        20       recognize Senator Goodman.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The chair

        22       recognizes Senator Goodman.

        23                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Please record











                                                             
2561

         1       me in the negative on Calendar 154.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, Senator Goodman will be recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar Number 154.

         5                      Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         7       Can we at this time take up the controversial

         8       calendar.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the controversial calendar.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       143, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill 2119, an act

        13       to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to

        14       bona fide research projects.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Saland, an explanation has been asked for by

        17       Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President.

        19       This bill is a bill which was introduced at the

        20       behest of the Committee on Children and the Law

        21       of the Association of the Bar of the City of New

        22       York, who believed that there were a number of

        23       impediments to bona fide research projects being











                                                             
2562

         1       able to access certain social service

         2       information, social service information with

         3       respect to either foster care or preventive

         4       services.

         5                      This bill attempts to establish a

         6       procedure to permit that and goes about

         7       establishing an advisory panel which will be

         8       comprised of advocates, research personnel, and

         9       determines what their charge shall be in the

        10       course of creating this mechanism.  It attempts

        11       to balance the need for privacy with the genuine

        12       need to research for purposes of determining not

        13       only effectiveness of programs but also to

        14       compile some type of statistical data as well.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        16       recognizes Senator Paterson.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        18       much, Mr. President.  First of all, Mr.

        19       President, I would like to thank Senator Saland

        20       for his patience on this particular piece of

        21       legislation.  He has had it before the house

        22       previously, and I just want to know if he will

        23       yield to this one question?











                                                             
2563

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Saland, do you yield to Senator Paterson?

         3                      SENATOR SALAND:  Certainly, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       is happy to yield.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Can you

         8       document for us, Senator Saland, briefly, what

         9       some of the protections are built into this

        10       legislation that will make sure that the privacy

        11       of individuals who happen to be eligible for

        12       different types of social service will be

        13       reflected in the research and that the

        14       information will not get into what would be

        15       hands that might be detrimental to those who

        16       have a right to a certain privacy on this

        17       issue?

        18                      SENATOR SALAND:  There is nothing

        19       in this bill that amends any existing provisions

        20       of the law with respect to penalties for

        21       violating the confidentiality or the privacy

        22       that is imposed by law.  So to the extent that

        23       there is currently a penalty that penalty exists











                                                             
2564

         1       and will continue to exist.

         2                      The language in this bill in the

         3       several sections that it amends talks in terms

         4       of permitting research -- I'm sorry -

         5       permitting access for purposes of bona fide

         6       research projects.  Identifying information

         7       shall not be made available unless it is

         8       absolutely essential.

         9                      And that "absolutely essential"

        10       is not unlike the language contained in the

        11       existing Social Service Law in one particular

        12       section.  I believe it's found in one of the

        13       subsections of Section 422 of the Social Service

        14       Law.  There is no intent here to permit or

        15       encourage wholesale and indiscriminate access to

        16       information.

        17                      This is limited basically to

        18       research performed by so-called bona fide

        19       researchers, and the format will, again, be

        20       determined by the panel, the Child Welfare

        21       Research Advisory Panel, which will basically

        22       set out the mode by which this information shall

        23       become available; and if you look at page 2 of











                                                             
2565

         1       the bill, it sets forth those who shall comprise

         2       that panel, and I believe it's done in a rather

         3       equitable way and a way which is intended to

         4       demonstrate balance.

         5                      It talks in terms of the panel

         6       shall also include but not be limited to

         7       representatives of the following categories:

         8       Agencies providing child welfare services

         9       including child protective services, foster

        10       care, preventive services and adoption services;

        11       advocates for and recipients of services to

        12       children and families; and social science and

        13       child research professionals.

        14                      So I think the effort here has

        15       been to certainly try and create a balanced

        16       mechanism that recognizes not only the

        17       importance of privacy but the importance of

        18       research, research which basically will, I

        19       think, help us here in this body to determine

        20       the efficacy of the various programs that, as I

        21       understand it, have not had some type of bona

        22       fide research -- and I use that in the sense in

        23       which it's set forth in this bill -- probably











                                                             
2566

         1       since sometime in the early '70s.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Explanation satisfactory?

         5                      Senator Galiber.

         6                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, I,

         7       too, particularly want to thank you because I'm

         8       moving a little slower than I usually do this

         9       year, and thanks for your courtesy.

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  But I'm sure in

        11       not too -- in not too short order, you will be

        12       moving as rapidly as before.

        13                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Senator, there

        14       are some troubling portions of this bill.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Galiber, excuse me.  Are you asking Senator

        17       Saland to yield?

        18                      SENATOR GALIBER:  I'm sorry, Mr.

        19       President.  Yes.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Saland, do you yield?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
2567

         1       yields.

         2                      Senator Galiber.

         3                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      This business of research

         6       troubles me a little bit.  It seems to be a

         7       little broad, and there are those of us who have

         8       been concerned about confidentiality and the

         9       real need in terms of releasing this kind of

        10       information and how it would be used.  My

        11       understanding of the bill, which doesn't make it

        12       so, of course, is that even the news media can

        13       get this information under special

        14       circumstances.  That troubles me.

        15                      Just as I have often said on the

        16       floor that Orwell was correct in predicting in

        17       1984 what we would have; and 1984 passed, and no

        18       one said anything about it.  We have children

        19       now who are getting Social Security numbers

        20       before they are born almost.

        21                      Therefore, I would like you to

        22       comment on the research portion of it:  The idea

        23       of how far do we take this and balance it out











                                                             
2568

         1       with constitutional rights, the question of

         2       privacy and whether the need for it outweighs

         3       the potential damage it will do in the future

         4       having this information fall into the wrong

         5       hands.

         6                      We have a situation today.  We

         7       hear about the super highway; and if we adopt

         8       this super highway, everybody's phone will be

         9       tapped.  Big corporations are going to foreign

        10       markets to avoid that possibility.

        11                      So those of us who are sensitive

        12       -- this is not to suggest, Senator, that you

        13       are not sensitive in this area.  You come with

        14       good faith and good purpose behind this.  I just

        15       throw up a flag of warning because in the last

        16       fifteen years or so, we have trampled on so many

        17       basic rights, and we're giving out information

        18       where we should not.  It doesn't go with the

        19       democracy that this country represents.

        20                      So I would like you, if you will,

        21       to elaborate a bit on what would the research -

        22       what purpose would it serve?  What kind of

        23       research?  And, secondly, I'm always a little











                                                             
2569

         1       nervous when bills pass where confidentiality is

         2       involved and the news media under certain

         3       circumstances has access to it.

         4                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President.

         5                      Senator, my understanding is that

         6       the language in this bill parallels language

         7       that's existing currently in federal

         8       regulation.  I don't think that there is

         9       anything in this bill that is either by the

        10       nature of the language in this bill or by my

        11       intent as the sponsor of the bill intended to

        12       give carte blanche to anybody under the guise of

        13       a research project to have indiscriminate access

        14       to any and all records.

        15                      I would continue to point to the

        16       language in the bill that says there must be a

        17       bona fide research project that is the purpose

        18       of the inquiry.  Identifying information shall

        19       not be available, however, unless it's

        20       absolutely essential to the research purpose and

        21       the Department gives prior approval.  There is a

        22       screening mechanism that exists.  There is, as

        23       you're probably aware, currently a consent order











                                                             
2570

         1        -- the bill memo makes reference to it -- that

         2       limits access to information.  This bill would

         3       propose to basically modify that particular

         4       consent order or stipulation, and the court -- I

         5       believe in this particular case it's a federal

         6       court -- would certainly have to rule on whether

         7       this proposal comported with the stipulation

         8       and, in turn, permitted a modification of that

         9       stipulation.  I don't view this as being

        10       invasive.  I don't view this as a tool by which

        11       the media shall have access because I don't view

        12       the media regardless of what they do in the form

        13       of investigative journalism as really being part

        14       of what would be deemed a bona fide research

        15       proposal or project.

        16                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Thank you.

        17                      Mr. President, would the Senator

        18       yield for just one more question?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Saland, do you yield for another question?

        21                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
2571

         1       yields, Senator Galiber.

         2                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Give me an

         3       example or two of what a bona fide research

         4       group would be.  What would they be doing?

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  I would think

         6       that a bona fide research group might if it

         7       wanted to look into issues of preventive care,

         8       if it wanted to look into issues of adoption

         9       services, if it wanted to take a look at issues

        10       dealing with abuse or neglect.  Certainly

        11       someone with an academic background who wanted

        12       to do some type of a statistical analysis, say,

        13       in the instance of preventive services dealing

        14       with either foster care or perhaps as a

        15       precursor to an adoption placement, may want to

        16       do an analysis of programs and determine which

        17       of the programs have, in effect, had the best

        18       results.  That type of research has been wanting

        19       in this state probably for the better part of a

        20       couple of decades now.  Whether that's a

        21       reflection of the consent order that was entered

        22       somewhere back around 1980 or 1982, I couldn't

        23       tell you, but that type of research certainly











                                                             
2572

         1       has not been shown to be on the cutting edge

         2       anywhere within recent memory in this state.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Explanation satisfactory, Senator Galiber?

         5                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 120th day after it

        11       shall have become a law.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        16       the results when tabulated.

        17                      Senator Galiber to explain his

        18       vote.

        19                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Yes, very

        20       briefly.  I missed a point, Senator, before,

        21       when I talked about -- it came to mind -- bona

        22       fide group.  There was a bona fide group of

        23       persons who injected a number of people with











                                                             
2573

         1       syphilis some years ago and didn't tell them

         2       about it.  That was an example of a bona fide

         3       group also.

         4                      I vote no.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Paterson to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

         8       President.  I agree with Senator Galiber or

         9        "Gal-eh-bear" if you are a Caribbean.  He makes

        10       a really important point that I think we all

        11       need to consider; and that is, any kind of

        12       research of any information derived from

        13       services that come from the public domain have

        14       got to be scrupulously careful to protect the

        15       privacy of the recipient or the client.  In this

        16       particular case, there is a great deal of reform

        17       in the social service area.  Much of it is

        18       merited; but at the same time, we have to

        19       understand that it is not open season on

        20       individuals who due to their unfortunate status

        21       in life depend on government very much for their

        22       survival.  Their reality should not become the

        23       source of inquiry or curiosity on the part of











                                                             
2574

         1       individuals who are just trying to use it to

         2       advance an agenda.

         3                      I vote no, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson in the negative.  Announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 143 are Senators

         8       Galiber, Gold, Mendez and Paterson, also Senator

         9       Smith.  Ayes 46.  Nays 5.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       157, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill 2223, an act

        14       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,

        15       in relation to allowing participating employers

        16       in the New York State and Local Employees

        17       Retirement System.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Trunzo, an explanation has been asked for by

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President.

        23       This bill would allow part-time elected











                                                             
2575

         1       officials to receive retirement service credit

         2       based on time actually spent on official

         3       business.  The governing body of a participating

         4       employer that has a part-time elected official

         5       would be allowed to have retirement system

         6       service credit calculated on the basis of daily

         7       time records maintained by the elected officer.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        11       President.  Would you be so kind as to recognize

        12       Senator Jones who has a couple of questions for

        13       the Senator.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Jones.

        16                      SENATOR JONES:  Would Senator

        17       Trunzo yield to a question?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Trunzo, do you yield to a couple of questions

        20       from Senator Jones?

        21                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        22                      SENATOR JONES:  Senator Trunzo,

        23       could you give me an example of who these people











                                                             
2576

         1       might be that would fall under this category?

         2       Are we talking about like town board members?

         3                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes, elected

         4       officials who work for the town, especially some

         5       of these small towns where they're making five

         6       or six or seven thousand dollars, and their

         7       pension credit is prorated as strictly part

         8       time, and he doesn't get his full credit, and

         9       yet he may be out working on official business

        10       more than 40 hours a week; and, therefore, he

        11       would get this full credit for retirement

        12       purposes.

        13                      SENATOR JONES:  Would the Senator

        14       yield to another question?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Trunzo, do you yield to another question?

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       yields.

        20                      SENATOR JONES:  Would it be

        21       correct to say most of these people, though,

        22       would have a full-time job doing something else

        23       and this is like an evening -- at least that's











                                                             
2577

         1       the way it is with the town boards back our way.

         2                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes, but they

         3       have to be out on official business on the off

         4       hours to justify that they are really in a sense

         5       working full time, and the Comptroller -- this

         6       bill was negotiated out with the Comptroller,

         7       Association of Towns and Counties and stuff, to

         8       justify this position where a part-time elected

         9       official can at least prove and his records

        10       would be audited to make sure that he did put in

        11       the number of hours so they can prorate him up

        12       to whatever scale, even to the full amount of

        13       credit, for pension purposes.

        14                      SENATOR JONES:  Would the Senator

        15       yield to one more question?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

        18                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR JONES:  Do you have an

        22       idea, Senator, what -- I guess, first of all,

        23       who would be paying the bill?  I assume it's











                                                             
2578

         1       local government.  Do you have any idea what

         2       kind of a fiscal implication it would have on

         3       small towns?

         4                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  The fiscal

         5       implication would be spread out to all employers

         6       of the system, so nobody would be hit

         7       individually.

         8                      SENATOR JONES:  That doesn't make

         9       sense to me.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first day of

        14       January.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        19       the results when tabulated.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 157 are Senators

        22       Dollinger and Jones.  Ayes 50.  Nays 2.  Also

        23       Senator Leichter.  Ayes 49.  Nays 3.











                                                             
2579

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       178, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 1298,

         5       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Lay it aside for

         7       the day at the request of the sponsor.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         9       bill aside for the day at the request of the

        10       sponsor.

        11                      Senator Bruno, that completes the

        12       controversial calendar.

        13                      Chair will recognize Senator

        14       Mendez.

        15                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.  There will be an immediate

        17       Democratic conference after we adjourn.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        19       will be an immediate meeting of the Minority

        20       Democratic Conference in the Minority Conference

        21       Room immediately following adjournment.

        22                      Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, I











                                                             
2580

         1       believe there are some committee assignments at

         2       the desk.  I would ask that they be read at this

         3       time.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno

         7       hands up the following committee changes:

         8                      Committee on Aging, delete

         9       Senator Marino, add Senator Maziarz.

        10                      Committee on Children and

        11       Families, delete Senator Marino, add Senator

        12       Marcellino.

        13                      Senate Committee on Cities,

        14       delete Senator Velella, add Senator Spano.

        15                      Committee on Civil Service and

        16       Pensions, delete Senator Farley, add Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                      Committee on Codes, delete

        19       Senator Tully, add Senator Hoblock.

        20                      Committee on Commerce, delete

        21       Senator Johnson, add Senator Maziarz.

        22                      Consumer Protection, delete

        23       Senator Marino, add Senator Marcellino.











                                                             
2581

         1                      Crime Victims and Corrections,

         2       delete Senator Larkin, add Senator Maziarz.

         3                      Committee on Education, delete

         4       Senator Skelos, add Senator Marcellino.

         5                      Committee on Energy, delete

         6       Senator Volker, add Senator Maziarz.

         7                      Committee on Housing, delete

         8       Senator Marino and Farley, add Senator Maziarz

         9       and Senator Libous.

        10                      Committee on Labor, delete

        11       Senator Farley, add Senator Marcellino.

        12                      Committee on Social Services,

        13       delete Senator Marino, add Senator Marcellino.

        14                      Committee on Tourism, delete

        15       Senator Kuhl, add Senator Maziarz.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       changes will be filed in the Journal.

        18                      Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        20       Are there any additional housekeeping tasks at

        21       the desk?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       informs me there is nothing at the desk at this











                                                             
2582

         1       time, Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Then, Mr.

         3       President, there being no further business to

         4       come before the Senate, I move that we adjourn

         5       until 2:00, not 3:00, p.m. tomorrow.

         6                      Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

         9       tomorrow at 2:00 p.m.

        10                      (Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., Senate

        11       adjourned.)

        12

        13

        14

        15