Regular Session - April 5, 1995

                                                                 
4255

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         7                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         8                         April 5, 1995

         9                          11:01 a.m.

        10

        11

        12                       REGULAR SESSION

        13

        14

        15

        16       SENATOR JOHN A. DeFRANCISCO, Acting President

        17       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
4256

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         3       The Senate will come to order.

         4                      All please rise and repeat with

         5       me the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         6                      (Whereupon, the Senate and those

         7       present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to

         8       the Flag.)

         9                      In the absence of clergy may we

        10       please bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        11                      (Whereupon, there was a moment of

        12       silence.)

        13                      Reading of the Journal.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        15       Tuesday, April 4.  The Senate met pursuant to

        16       adjournment.  Senator Kuhl in the chair.  The

        17       Journal of Monday, April 3, was read and

        18       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        20       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        21       as read.

        22                      Presentation of petitions.

        23                      Messages from the Assembly.











                                                             
4257

         1                      Messages from the Governor.

         2                      Reports of standing committees.

         3                      Reports of select committees.

         4                      Communications and reports from

         5       state officers.

         6                      Motions and resolutions.

         7                      Senator Farley.

         8                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  On behalf of Senator Padavan, on

        10       page 20, I offer the following amendments to

        11       Calendar 339, Senate Print 3089, and I ask that

        12       this bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        13       Calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Amendments received.

        16                      Senator Bruno, we have some

        17       substitutions at the desk.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        19       Can we make the substitution, please?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        21       Secretary will read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,

        23       Senator Seward moves to discharge from the











                                                             
4258

         1       Committee on Codes Assembly Bill 1541 and

         2       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

         3       380.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

         5       Senator Holland moves to discharge from the

         6       Committee on Codes Assembly Bill 3039 and

         7       substitute it for identical bill Calendar Number

         8       382.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Substitutions ordered.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        12       Can we, now, at this time take up the

        13       noncontroversial calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       116, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill 1088A, an act

        18       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the crime

        19       of criminal employment.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        21       Read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the first day of











                                                             
4259

         1       November.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         3       Call the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       The bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 190, by

         9       Senator Velella, Senate Print 297, an act to

        10       amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to

        11       increasing the combined household income limit.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        17       Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        21       The bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       239, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill 1971,











                                                             
4260

         1       an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

         2       relation to compliance with orders fixing bail.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         4       Read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Please call the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       The bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       253, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill 1105, an act

        15       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        16       to real property held in trust for certain

        17       veterans.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the first day of

        22       January.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4261

         1       Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         5       The bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       264, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2836, an

         8       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

         9       money transmitters.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Please call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       The bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       265, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 3268, an

        22       act to amend Chapter 720 of the Laws of 1976 and

        23       403 of the Laws of 1982, amending the Banking











                                                             
4262

         1       Law.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         3       Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       Please call the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       The bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       274, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2416A -

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  -- an act to

        16       amend the General Municipal Law, Housing Law,

        17       and State Finance Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Please lay the bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       284, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill 2760, an act

        22       to reopen the optional 20-year retirement plan.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4263

         1       There is a home rule message at the desk.

         2                      Please read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       The bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       286, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill 2893, an act

        13       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,

        14       in relation to additional pension benefits.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        20       Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 42.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4264

         1       The bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       315, from the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         4       3955, an act to amend the Tax Law and the Public

         5       Service Law.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Lay the bill aside.

         9                      That completes the reading of the

        10       noncontroversial calendar.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        12       Can we at this time take up the controversial

        13       calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       The Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  On page number

        17       21, Calendar 274, by Senator Hannon, Senate

        18       Print 2416A, an act to amend the General

        19       Municipal Law, the Public Housing Law, the State

        20       Finance Law and Chapter 585 of the Laws of 1939.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  An

        22       explanation is asked for.

        23                      Senator Hannon.











                                                             
4265

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

         2       This bill, which passed this house last year,

         3       would index the rate of interest that various

         4       governmental entities have to pay on a judgment

         5       or an accrued claim.  This would be -- the idea

         6       would be to reflect economic reality in regard

         7       to the claims that have to be paid out.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         9       Senator Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        11       President.  I don't have a particular problem

        12       with this bill.  I just have a question of

        13       Senator Hannon in terms of the assessment of the

        14       interest rate.

        15                      I see that it comes more at the

        16       time of the judgment than the date of injury;

        17       and so where we have this disparity in the law

        18       where it comes to contract law as opposed to

        19       personal injury liability, I just want to know

        20       why he set the date at the time of judgment when

        21       the interest rate theoretically could fall which

        22       would inure to the detriment of the plaintiff.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4266

         1       Senator Hannon.

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  I would think

         3       that at the time the judgment is made, whatever

         4       the award is at that time, they have taken into

         5       account any changes in economic situations from

         6       the incident for which the case has been brought

         7       to the time of the award.  So when you put the

         8       judgment in, you've already had that

         9       adjustment.  So our thought was to go forward

        10       from that point in time to whenever the payment

        11       is actually made.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Senator Hannon.

        16                      On the bill.  I think it's a

        17       little bit of an assumption.  It really doesn't

        18       affect the merit of the bill.  It is a fine

        19       bill, and this house has seen to its unanimous

        20       passage before, but I would just recommend that

        21       one of the ways that this might become an agreed

        22       upon bill would be to address that particular

        23       issue where there is a discrepancy, in my











                                                             
4267

         1       opinion, in the Contract Law as opposed to

         2       personal liability recovery; and in the event

         3       that the award is not made with the compensation

         4       for the lowering of the interest rate -- I think

         5       this is why the New York State Trial Lawyers

         6       Association brought this up -- the fact that you

         7       do have this opportunity for discrepancy.

         8                      Thank you.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the first day of

        13       January.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Please call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Results.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.  Nays

        20       1.  Senator Abate voting in the negative.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        22       The bill is passed.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  May I be











                                                             
4268

         1       recorded in the negative as well?  My

         2       apologies.  It's on Calendar Number 274.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

         4       Dollinger.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Please read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       353, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         9       3955, an act to amend the Tax Law and the Public

        10       Service Law, in relation to a reduction in the

        11       tax rate.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  An

        14       explanation is asked for.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        16       We have before us a piece of legislation that

        17       when it is enacted into law will create hundreds

        18       of thousands of jobs that are desperately needed

        19       by the people of this state.  It will stimulate

        20       the economy of this state.  This is an economic

        21       development package and if people in this

        22       chamber understand what this does, they will

        23       support it.











                                                             
4269

         1                      Starts with construction jobs,

         2       thousands of them in various parts of the state

         3       relating to the stadia that take place in

         4       various regions of the state.  Creates jobs

         5       initially, construction jobs, then it creates

         6       economic development with the functions that

         7       will take place in the stadia, tourist dollars,

         8       local dollars, economic stimulation and

         9       development.

        10                      Secondly, it creates jobs with a

        11       huge tax cut package, tax cuts starting with the

        12       utility gross receipts tax.  Cost of energy in

        13       this state is driving businesses to other

        14       states.  It is inhibiting their ability to grow

        15       or come to New York.  This deals with that.

        16       Petroleum business tax will be cut.  We have

        17       truckers, we have airlines, that are fueling up

        18       with their diesel fuel in other states, costing

        19       jobs here in this state.  This corrects that.

        20                      There is a circuit breaker in

        21       this, taking the income levels from the present

        22       18,000 to 32,000.  There are people in their

        23       homes that can not afford to stay in their homes











                                                             
4270

         1       because of the high and escalating local

         2       property taxes.  This helps in that regard.

         3                      Critically important, there are

         4       people who leave New York State to go to Florida

         5       to avoid the estate taxes that are confiscatory

         6       here in New York State.  This conforms the state

         7       income taxes to the federal taxes, critically

         8       important.

         9                      It also deals with the container

        10       tax, two cents on containers, and the 10 cents

        11       per gallon on beer.  You will recall that that

        12       was put in place in 1990.  For what reason?  Who

        13       in this chamber knows?  Senator Leichter knows.

        14       He knows why this tax was put on, and Senator

        15       Onorato knows why that tax was put on.

        16                      SENATOR ONORATO:  And I agree

        17       with you.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And I know it

        19       because they are having a discussion about it

        20       now, Mr. President, and their discussion relates

        21       to the fact that that tax was put on in 1990 to

        22       fund the environmental bond issue; and guess

        23       what?  It didn't pass.  So, Senator, that tax











                                                             
4271

         1       has been in place for five years to fund the

         2       interest cost on that bond that never passed.

         3       Now, I know that you want to address that and do

         4       something about it and we're five years late,

         5       but this is our opportunity.

         6                      There is also help, Mr. President

         7        -- and, again, you have to realize what we're

         8       trying to do is stimulate the economy.  There is

         9       NYRA relief in this.  We do things with the

        10       taxes, with the takeout, with the NYRA tracks

        11       and the tracks across this state that are being

        12       driven into bankruptcy, again, by overtaxation

        13       of the state.

        14                      And, Mr. President, and this is

        15       so important, we did what came to be known in

        16       this state as the Cuomo real estate tax.  When

        17       we levied that tax -- and you want to talk about

        18       things that we do that are counterproductive -

        19       the revenue from real estate sales at the higher

        20       end in this state was about $800 million.  Do

        21       you know what the revenue is now from those

        22       sales?  I won't ask for a show of hands.  About

        23       80-90-100 million.  That's what we did to the











                                                             
4272

         1       transfer of property in this state by laying

         2       taxes at the higher end.  We took the income to

         3       this state down from 800 million when we levied

         4       this tax to less than 100 million today.  That's

         5       going to go, Mr. President, and that going will

         6       create economic stimulus and jobs.

         7                      We, in New York State, rent two

         8       prisons from you in New York City.  We are going

         9       to, through this package, buy those prisons from

        10       the City instead of renting them.  Saves the

        11       state money, and it puts $120 million into the

        12       City budget.  You, from the City, know that the

        13       Mayor's desperately trying to balance the

        14       budget.  So a vote for this is a vote for your

        15       constituency in New York City, $120 million

        16       directly into the City.

        17                      Also in the City, there is 62

        18       million in school restoration money used as

        19       capital expenditures to repair the schools.

        20       Most of it goes into New York, but it goes

        21       across the state in some other areas; but in New

        22       York City, there is a desperate need for that

        23       money.  That is in this package, and there is











                                                             
4273

         1       some miscellaneous things.

         2                      But, Mr. President, the reason

         3       this is before us is that the people of New York

         4       State desperately need jobs and the intent of

         5       this is economic development, job creation, and

         6       there is no other purpose for this to be before

         7       us other than to fulfill that requirement for

         8       the people of this state.

         9                      So people will say, Mr.

        10       President, and I know there is one or two people

        11       in this chamber right now -- one of them is

        12       making notes -- thinking about, Where will the

        13       money come from?  How much will this cost?

        14       Well, let me answer.  Where will the money come

        15       from?  I'm reading your mind, Senator.  It's

        16       very dangerous.  Where will the money come

        17       from?

        18                      (Laughter.)

        19                      Okay, Mr. President, the money

        20       that we are spending is -- my learned counsel

        21       indicates -- and I don't like to say anything

        22       until I know it's absolutely a fact.  I won't

        23       ask anyone in this chamber to guess, with all of











                                                             
4274

         1       this economic development, all of this job

         2       stimulation, hundreds of thousands of jobs

         3       potentially being created, what the investment

         4       would be -- investment would be -- $15 million

         5       THE first year.  15 million.

         6                      Now, the other tax cuts amount to

         7       80 million first year, 645 million second year.

         8       Where does that money come from?  There will be

         9       further cuts.  There will be potential increased

        10       revenues when the three leaders -- five leaders

        11       agree, with their conferences, that there may be

        12       additional revenue.  There may be.  If there is,

        13       then the first 15 ought to go, Mr. President, to

        14       create jobs, and the 80 million for the tax

        15       reduction package will come from either the

        16       agreed on revenues -- the Speaker of the

        17       Assembly, for instance, says that there may be

        18       80 million or 100 million from one item alone,

        19       collecting the taxes that are apparently due

        20       from the Indian reservations.  Now, the Speaker

        21       seems to feel strongly that that money is

        22       there.  If that money is there, we are saying

        23       and we agree that -- people pay their taxes -











                                                             
4275

         1       that money should be used for one purpose, to

         2       create jobs, for economic development and no

         3       other purpose.  It represents, Mr. President, an

         4       investment in the present and in the future of

         5       New York State.

         6                      And, Mr. President, I am

         7       comfortable that my colleagues on both sides of

         8       the aisle will support this job creation

         9       package.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President, for

        11       this opportunity to address my colleagues.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Paterson is next on the list.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        15       President.  Would the Majority Leader be willing

        16       to yield for a question?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Bruno, would you yield?

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  With pleasure,

        20       Mr. President.  It's always a pleasure.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        22       Actually, the Majority Leader knows my question

        23       because he's read my mind; but just for the











                                                             
4276

         1       benefit of the rest of you here, I thought I

         2       would state it publicly.

         3                      Let's review, Mr. Majority

         4       Leader.  We have a utility tax, a real property

         5       circuit breaker.  We have a real estate tax.  We

         6       have estate and gift tax.  We have a petroleum

         7       tax, a beer tax, a container tax, and a

         8       pari-mutuel racing tax.  It will save us $80

         9       million in the first year.

        10                      But my question to you relates to

        11       $650 million that are actually going to come out

        12       of our budget in fiscal year 1996-1997.  Now, I

        13       know that this house has passed the budget, but

        14       I don't understand why we are actually working

        15       out the figures in the budget for next year in

        16       this bill when we haven't finished really

        17       negotiating the budget for this year.

        18                      To be specific, the Governor has

        19       announced that he is going to veto and has on

        20       three occasions already vetoed pieces of

        21       legislation that have come out of our house, and

        22       he promises he is not going to pass any laws

        23       until we pass this year's budget.  So my











                                                             
4277

         1       question is, Why are we going beyond that to

         2       next year and working out figures that we really

         3       can't be sure of until we make the necessary

         4       agreements arranged for this year?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      That's an excellent question, and

        10       I will attempt to answer that.  We saw, I

        11       believe, an ad by the CEO of Eastman Kodak in

        12       the papers in New York imploring us to do what's

        13       right in terms of economic development in this

        14       state and that relates to this budget.  We saw

        15       IBM locate their headquarters and expand here by

        16       245 million.  Investment immediately.  Those are

        17       just a couple of the biggest businesses in the

        18       world saying they think New York is headed in

        19       the right direction under this Governor and with

        20       this Legislature.

        21                      So, Senator, we are reinforcing

        22       the message to the people of this state that we

        23       are serious about changing the direction of











                                                             
4278

         1       government.  We want the people of this state to

         2       understand that we know that more jobs have left

         3       this state in the last four years than in any

         4       other state.  Forty percent of all the jobs in

         5       the country lost came from New York.  We know

         6       that.  We also know that we are lagging the rest

         7       of the country in economic recovery.  We also

         8       know that we are 49 out of 50 in our bond rating

         9       in the country.

        10                      So we have to stimulate the

        11       economy.  We have to deliver the message,

        12       Senator.  We have to help the people of this

        13       state understand that we're not just talking.

        14       We are acting.  So by this action, we are

        15       delivering a strong message that we are not

        16       talking.  We're taking action; and by the time

        17       this gets on the Governor's desk after you

        18       support it and we support it, gets supported in

        19       the other house, hopefully, we will have a

        20       budget in place, we will know what the

        21       Assembly's numbers are and that will give us an

        22       opportunity to negotiate; and when we do that,

        23       we will have a budget, and the Governor will











                                                             
4279

         1       sign this bill, and it will become law,

         2       Senator.  So I wouldn't worry that far along.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         4       Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

         6       President.  I welcome some of what the Majority

         7       Leader is doing.  I would like to point out that

         8       our conference, the Minority Conference, voted

         9       against a lot of the increases that exist in

        10       this -- that this bill is actually addressing.

        11       We voted against it in 1990.  We were not in

        12       lock step at that time with anybody in

        13       particular.  We did not think that this was a

        14       good fiscal policy and we voted against it.

        15                      But I'm not totally clear on how

        16       we're taking a new direction.  It looks to me as

        17       if we're bonding out not just large items that

        18       you have to bond out on certain occasions.

        19       We're bonding out a lot of smaller ones.

        20                      Now, some of the issues that this

        21       bill addresses are very good.  I'm glad to see

        22       that in spite of the fact that we left out of

        23       the capital budget last week some stadiums that











                                                             
4280

         1       are now in this particular bill, two in

         2       Rochester, one in Syracuse, some stadiums that

         3       were left out before, it's actually a good

         4       thing.  But what I don't understand is where we

         5       are going to get the money from.  It appears to

         6       me it's going to come from our own debt service,

         7       and what we are doing -- if we're really taking

         8       a new direction, how are we not -- Mr. Majority

         9       Leader, how are we not doing the same thing that

        10       I got the impression that you would rail

        11       against?

        12                      How are we bonding out finances

        13       that we're going to have to pay for down the

        14       road at a level that we really don't know?  I

        15       don't understand that.  Perhaps you could

        16       enlighten me.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Bruno.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        20       These are capital expenditures that we would

        21       bond out, and the most appropriate thing that

        22       happens in states, at the federal government,

        23       and in business is to get a mortgage.  When you











                                                             
4281

         1       bond out a stadium or you bond out something

         2       like a school, you are building something and

         3       you are mortgaging that property.

         4                      Now, this country was built on

         5       this concept that is acceptable in business, in

         6       the country, in the state.  So, Senator

         7       Paterson, we're not doing anything new or

         8       different.  We are not inventing anything.  We

         9       are taking an accepted practice and we are

        10       utilizing it to create jobs in Rochester,

        11       Syracuse, Broome County, New York City, Senator

        12        -- your district -- Buffalo, and hopefully

        13       around here in the Capital District.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Senator Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        17       President.  This is really my last question, but

        18       we usually don't bond out school maintenance.

        19       That is something that I think is new in this

        20       particular bill; and although I agree with the

        21       Majority Leader -- as a matter of fact, I think

        22       the Majority Leader is helping to make a point

        23       that I have been trying to make over the past











                                                             
4282

         1       few weeks when all we hear, the newly shrill cry

         2       for attention, is about balancing budgets; and I

         3       maintain that balancing budgets is something

         4       that sounds very nice but really isn't making

         5       any economic sense.  If you always had a

         6       balanced budget, individually, you couldn't have

         7       a credit card; you couldn't have a mortgage.

         8                      So I'm not objecting to the

         9       necessary bonding that takes place, but we're

        10       bonding $200,000 items here.  We're bonding

        11       really very low-cost items, and these are also

        12       some items that appeared in last week's capital

        13       budget.  So if we pass this bill, aren't we

        14       really spending money on the same thing twice?

        15       In other words, this is what I just don't

        16       understand about this bill at this particular

        17       time.

        18                      The Governor has said he is

        19       against bonding out items; so, in other words,

        20       it is the confusion really more than the merit

        21       that is difficult for me to understand.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       Senator Leichter.











                                                             
4283

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      Senator Bruno, I enjoyed your

         4       presentation.  You never cease to amaze me.  I

         5       don't want to say this is an irresponsible

         6       program.  I think more accurate would be to say

         7       that it's totally irresponsible.  I think it's

         8       really interesting, Senator Bruno, in view of

         9       the statements that you have made, and members

        10       of your side of the aisle, in the last few days

        11       about how, "We're going to tighten the belt and

        12       this is a new day and we don't have the money to

        13       spend," and so on; but, lo and behold, suddenly

        14       we found this pot of money, pot of gold.  I

        15       guess somebody went down the halls and looked in

        16       the corner; and, lo and behold, there is all

        17       this money available; and much of it, I see,

        18       goes for so-called economic development programs

        19       in the Capital Region.

        20                      The Capital Region does really

        21       quite well.  The Albany County Airport, the

        22       Rensselaer County Building Acquisition and

        23       Restoration Program, that's good for 5 million.











                                                             
4284

         1       Saratoga Performing Arts Center, 3.95 million,

         2       and -- I don't know where Gould Pumps, Inc., of

         3       Seneca Falls is, but that's only a million.  I

         4       don't think that's in your district, Senator

         5       Bruno.

         6                      So, yes, I think certain Senate

         7       districts seem to do well as far as getting some

         8       pork.  I know we got all the sports stadiums in

         9       here, but the thing that fascinated me was the

        10       economic theory that the Majority Leader set

        11       forth in trying to justify this bill.

        12                      This is a tax cut that benefits

        13       almost exclusively the very, very wealthy; and

        14       to get up and to say this is a program of

        15       economic stimulus for the State of New York,

        16       take a look at who benefits from these tax

        17       cuts.  This Majority is legislating solely for

        18       the wealthy.  The Pataki budget is a budget

        19       solely that benefits the wealthy.  It hurts 90

        20       percent of the people of this state.  You are

        21       trying to make it that 95 percent are going to

        22       be hurt and more benefits for wealthy.

        23                      Senator Bruno, your explanation











                                                             
4285

         1       of the loss of jobs in New York State and how

         2       we're doing poorly as against other parts of the

         3       country, Senator, the fact is that the whole

         4       Northeast has been in a recession; and the last

         5       time I looked, New Jersey, with that great

         6       Republican governor and her economic theory, was

         7       doing particularly badly, with unemployment up,

         8       facing a large deficit; and Governor Pataki,

         9       with your cheerleading, is going down that same

        10       path because, frankly, there is no economic

        11       basis with any rationality to support this sort

        12       of a program.

        13                      I would like to say, Senator

        14       Bruno, that I'm going to set up a fund to send

        15       you to some classes in economics; and as soon as

        16       we get paid, I pledge $100 to that fund and I

        17       hope other members will join me because, with

        18       all due respect, you need some economic

        19       underpinning for these programs that you're

        20       putting forth.

        21                      I think it's a dishonest bill.  I

        22       think in some parts it's a fig leaf to cover up

        23       the failings of the budget that you passed











                                                             
4286

         1       earlier because you refused to carry out

         2       promises that you had made to the people when we

         3       said that we would pay for school repairs and

         4       maintenance and now we weren't doing it.  So

         5       this is the fig leaf.  Republicans are going to

         6       be able to say, "Oh, no, I didn't break the

         7       promise.  Look, in our economic revitalization

         8       bill" -- or whatever you're calling it -- "the

         9       Economic Development Act of 1995, we provided

        10       for this money," and you did it in a totally

        11       irresponsible fashion, as Senator Paterson

        12       rightly pointed out.

        13                      Let me just say on these claims

        14       how we're helping business and we're stimulating

        15       business by these programs, there is no

        16       empirical data, whatsoever, that these sort of

        17       programs in any way are an assistance to

        18       business or to create jobs.  You take a look at

        19       other states that are doing better -- and they

        20       are doing better for various economic reasons

        21       that really have very little to do with the sort

        22       of legislation that we're considering, but they

        23       don't have the sort of give-away programs that











                                                             
4287

         1       we have for business.

         2                      I issued a report about a month

         3       ago showing the corporate welfare program in the

         4       State of New York.  Last year, we spent $1.2

         5       billion in assistance to corporations.  Most of

         6       it was completely wasted.  Much of it was

         7       totally foolish.  Some of it was totally

         8       counterproductive.  For instance, where the

         9       investment tax credit -- which actually gives

        10       money mainly to the largest corporations in this

        11       state to put in so-called labor saving devices.

        12       That particular economic stimulus program

        13       actually costs us jobs in the State of New York.

        14                      This bill goes along the same

        15       line of really throwing money away on so-called

        16       economic stimulus programs that do not create

        17       jobs.  We would be much better off dealing with

        18       the overall quality of life in the State of New

        19       York with the business climate; and,

        20       unfortunately, this bill doesn't address that

        21       and the budget only makes the overall business

        22       climate worse.

        23                      So, this bill may create good











                                                             
4288

         1       press releases, may be claims that the

         2       Republicans can make, but I'll say this to you,

         3       Senator Bruno.  I consider this just more

         4       pandering, the same as the pandering we did

         5       yesterday on refusing to pay legislative staff,

         6       although we understand they are going to be paid

         7       now, anyhow; but none of this really addresses

         8       the needs of the people of the State of New

         9       York; and when it's contrasted to the statements

        10       that you made last week, when it's contrasted to

        11       the budget that you passed and your claims of,

        12       "We are going in a new direction," that

        13       direction is one of gross fiscal

        14       irresponsibility.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Senator Waldon.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        18       much, Mr. President.  I would like to ask the

        19       learned Senator from Rensselaer to respond to a

        20       question or two.  But, first, yesterday, my

        21       doctor had scheduled an examination for me, and

        22       I had to repair to that place for the

        23       examination.  I would like the record to show











                                                             
4289

         1       that had I been present here I would have voted

         2       no -- I believe it was Bill Number 4000.  My

         3       doctor, my colleagues, had scheduled a

         4       sigmoidoscopy.  I respectfully requested that

         5       the doctor wait until the budget process -

         6       until the budget process was over, that we were

         7       having enough difficulty with that up here on

         8       the hill.

         9                      But if the learned Senator would

        10       respond -- yield to a question or two?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       First, the record will reflect that you would

        13       have voted in the negative on that bill had you

        14       been present.

        15                      Senator Bruno, would you yield to

        16       a question?

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      SENATOR WALDON:  My dear

        20       colleague, have you had any discussion with the

        21       Speaker Sheldon Silver in regard to a companion

        22       bill for this particular bill that you are

        23       submitting for our consideration today?











                                                             
4290

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, I have,

         2       Senator.  Not about the particular package that

         3       we have before us, but almost every item that

         4       we're talking about here in some way or other

         5       has been part of the discussions that relate to

         6       the budget process.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may

         8       continue, Mr. President?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Senator Waldon.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  I'm sorry.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Yes.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      Senator, in your colloquy with

        17       the Speaker, has he agreed to do -- if not the

        18       precise things that you are looking to

        19       accomplish with this, has he agreed to do

        20       something similar that could be conformed to

        21       relatively easily when the respective committees

        22       from each house meet to address these concerns?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4291

         1       Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.  I

         3       don't like to even paraphrase what the Speaker

         4       might or might not agree to, but it is my

         5       impression and understanding from our

         6       discussions that he is open to and receptive to

         7       much of what is before us in this house.  There

         8       may be some specific items that he may want to

         9       discuss further.

        10                      But, generally, I think, in

        11       pieces, if you take the 62 million for schools,

        12       part of what he talks about, 120 million for the

        13       City for us to buy the jails from them since the

        14       state prisoners inhabit those jails, he talks

        15       about that and I believe is supportive of that.

        16       The stadia, he has indicated in the past that he

        17       is supportive of that as relates to job

        18       creation.  The tax package, he has a little

        19       different mix, but I know that some of these

        20       items are important to him and his conference.

        21       He has some others like the sales tax that if

        22       this were to become law he would want to

        23       negotiate as to that potentially being part of











                                                             
4292

         1       it.

         2                      But I would say if I were just

         3       paraphrasing that most of what is before us is

         4       something that he would be interested in helping

         5       make happen.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may

         7       continue, Mr. President.  If the Senator will

         8       continue to yield.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, this

        12       bill will pass in this house simply because of

        13       the numbers.  I would like to know upon its

        14       passage, do you intend to hold it at the desk or

        15       are you going to present it outside of this

        16       house for consideration by the Governor?

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  We will, upon

        18       passage, send it over to the Assembly; and if

        19       they were to pass it in the next couple of days,

        20       which I think would be a great public service,

        21       and send it to the Governor, then I would with

        22       my colleagues -- and I would ask the Speaker to

        23       accompany me.  I would have a discussion with











                                                             
4293

         1       the Governor about his signing this piece of

         2       legislation, because the Governor has said that

         3       he will sign legislation that represents dealing

         4       with emergencies or dealing with things that are

         5       critically important to the health and welfare

         6       of this state, and, Senator, I think that the

         7       Governor would recognize that this bill

         8       represents an emergency.

         9                      It's a reaction to an emergency

        10       in this state where, if in this state we were

        11       only keeping pace with the rest of the country

        12       in the recovery in this recession, we would have

        13       about 651,000 more jobs today creating about

        14       3 billion in revenue, and what a godsend that

        15       would be in meeting this deficit that we have

        16       before us if that were a fact.

        17                      So, Mr. President, I believe -

        18       and I can't speak for the Governor, but I

        19       believe that if this lands on the Governor's

        20       desk this week that he would be inclined to sign

        21       it because it stimulates the economy and it

        22       creates jobs.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4294

         1       Senator Waldon.

         2                      SENATOR WALDON:  Just a few more

         3       questions.  I will not belabor this too long.

         4       Will the Senator continue to yield?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Will you continue to yield?

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      SENATOR WALDON:  My learned

        10       Senator from Rensselaer County, have you

        11       received any personal assurances from our

        12       governor that he will sign this if you present

        13       it to him via the normal process through the

        14       Assembly to his desk?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Senator Bruno.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.  I

        18       must answer negatively.  I have had no

        19       guarantees from the Governor that he would sign

        20       this.  I only have a very strong feeling that if

        21       we presented it to him in finished product that

        22       he might see the wisdom of the job creation

        23       that's contained, but I have no assurance from











                                                             
4295

         1       him personally that he supports everything that

         2       is in this bill.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  May I continue,

         4       Mr. President, through you?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Yes, sir.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. Majority

         8       Leader, I read in the paper today that the

         9       closest ally our Governor has in this body is

        10       yourself, and I also read in that same newspaper

        11       article that this Governor -- and one of the

        12       bills that he vetoed was our dear colleague

        13       Senator Farley's bill which dealt with

        14       laundering of money, et cetera, a very positive

        15       bill, a good bill for the banking industry,

        16       which supported this Governor and supported, I'm

        17       sure, the Republican side of this house -- that

        18       article continued to say that it is the

        19       understanding of the writer that this Governor

        20       would veto all bills coming before him if there

        21       is no budget in place.

        22                      Now, when I left for the doctor's

        23       last night we had not passed the budget, to my











                                                             
4296

         1       knowledge.  I assume, because no one said to me

         2       with glad-handedness and a great spirit as I

         3       entered the hall of this chamber this afternoon

         4        -- this morning, I should say -- that we, in

         5       fact, had passed the budget, so I have to assume

         6       that we did not pass the budget in my absence

         7       last evening.  Therefore, we have no budget.

         8                      Therefore, I ask again the

         9       question.  In your feeling stage, your feelings

        10       at your feeling level, do you think that this

        11       will be signed post haste if we pass it today

        12       and it gets to the Governor's desk?

        13                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        14       The good Senator is correct.  In his absence,

        15       the state did not enact a budget.  So you

        16       accurately reflect the condition of the state,

        17       and we haven't passed a budget, Mr. President,

        18       because the Assembly hasn't seen fit to pass the

        19       budget that we diligently passed by March 31st

        20       in cooperation in an agreement with the

        21       Governor; and had the Assembly done their job

        22       the way we did our job in this house -- with the

        23       assistance of my colleagues on both sides of the











                                                             
4297

         1       aisle, we put a balanced budget in place by

         2       March 31 for all of the people of this state.

         3       But, Mr. President, the Assembly hasn't seen fit

         4       to pass other than two budget bills.  We have

         5       passed, I believe, 70-some budget bills to get a

         6       budget completely in place, and that is a sad

         7       state of affairs.

         8                      I keep reading that I am one of

         9       the closest allies of this good Governor.  I

        10       keep reading that; and, Senator, as you know,

        11       everything that ends up in print is usually the

        12       Gospel truth, and we recognize that.

        13                      So that being the case, I would

        14       take the other allies of the Governor, both

        15       sides of the aisle, and discuss with the

        16       Governor the merits of this job creation

        17       package; and while he may not agree totally and

        18       completely, I think he would understand the

        19       wisdom of this, attempting to correct the errors

        20       of the past administration that has led us into

        21       this fiscal embarrassment that New York State

        22       finds itself with a $5 billion deficit.

        23                      So I believe that our ally,











                                                             
4298

         1       yours, mine, would see fit to look favorably

         2       upon this legislation if it lands on his desk by

         3       tomorrow.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

         5       Just one last question of the Majority Leader if

         6       he would submit.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Senator Bruno, do you continue to yield?

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  In keeping with

        12       our concerns, at least my concern in reading the

        13       article this morning, Senator, have you have had

        14       any -- Mr. Majority Leader.  I apologize -- have

        15       you had any conversations with this Governor in

        16       regard to other legislation that we will pass

        17       and his intention to veto and/or to sign said

        18       legislation?

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Senator, I

        20       have had a discussion, several discussions, and

        21       the Governor's message to me was, it is

        22       critically important that we in this Legislature

        23       stay focused on putting a budget in place.











                                                             
4299

         1       Every day that goes by costs the taxpayers of

         2       this state huge sums of money.  One estimate is

         3       $13,700,000 a day every day.

         4                      So the Governor said, "Stay

         5       focused."  The Governor said, "I know that you

         6       in the Senate did your job and did your budget.

         7       I know the Speaker in the Assembly hasn't done

         8       his job and hasn't done his budget, but,

         9       Senator, I'm going to veto everything other than

        10       emergency bills.  I'm going to veto everything

        11       so that we can keep the attention of this

        12       Legislature and this state focused on getting a

        13       budget in place."

        14                      So, I said,"Governor, I disagree

        15       with you vetoing our best friends' legislation

        16       that the people of this state need and your -

        17       one of your closest allies, Senator Farley,

        18       Senator Sears.  I disagree, Governor, with that

        19       because this was legislation that was passed

        20       before April 1, before the budget deadline."

        21                      And the Governor said, "Thank

        22       you, Senator, for your opinion," and he vetoed

        23       the bills.











                                                             
4300

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         2       Senator Waldon.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  On the bill, Mr.

         4       President.  I appreciate the indulgence of the

         5       Majority Leader to my questions.

         6                      We danced very well, Senator.

         7       The music was smooth, and it did the job.  I

         8       don't know if you really responded to the

         9       questions, but I do believe I accomplished my

        10       point.

        11                      So on this bill let me say I

        12       believe that this is not an emergency bill;

        13       therefore, if the pattern of behavior of this

        14       Governor, to date, regarding similar pieces of

        15       legislation we have passed which were, in fact,

        16       vetoed by him, that he will also veto this

        17       bill.

        18                      But the interesting piece is that

        19       $13-plus million by your estimation -- I believe

        20       it is much more when we consider the debt

        21       service -- is accumulating negatively to the

        22       state as we are here doing nothing.  Because if

        23       he is vetoing what we do, what we are empowered











                                                             
4301

         1       to do as legislators, what we are mandated and

         2       obligated to do as legislators, he has, in

         3       effect, constructively evicted us from our roles

         4       as legislators.

         5                      That's the point that I wish to

         6       make.  This Governor by his arbitrary,

         7       capricious, unheralded, historically not

         8       substantiated action is constructively evicting

         9       all of us, Senators and Assemblypersons, staff

        10       recently paid but a fear of not being paid

        11       yesterday; and thanks to the good graces of the

        12       system and the superman, Carl McCall, the checks

        13       arrived.

        14                      But I believe that this Governor

        15       is doing a disservice to the people of the State

        16       of New York, and we can sit here and fidget if

        17       we wish.  We can sit here and try to do the

        18       business of the people of state if we wish, but

        19       there is only one impediment stopping us from

        20       achieving the people's business, and he's on the

        21       second floor.

        22                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.











                                                             
4302

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         2       Senator Bruno.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Can I ask the

         4       house's indulgence?  One of our members has to

         5       be somewhere very, very shortly that's important

         6       in his life, and I ask that you interrupt the

         7       proceedings and read the last section on this

         8       bill so that he might vote.

         9                      Senator Hoblock.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Please read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Hoblock, how do you vote?

        19                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Vote in the

        20       affirmative.  Thank you, Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        22       Please withdraw the roll call.

        23                      Senator Dollinger.











                                                             
4303

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President.  Will the real Majority Leader yield

         3       to a few questions?

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       Excuse me.  I misunderstood you.  Who were you

         8       asking to yield to a question?

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I was asking

        10       the Majority Leader, Mr. President.  I'm

        11       astounded, I guess, because -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Excuse me.  You are asking the Majority Leader

        14       to yield?

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Bruno, would you yield to a question

        19       from Senator Dollinger?

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        23       President.  The reason I put that adjective in











                                                             
4304

         1       front of the phrase was -

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         3       Is it worth repeating?

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No, I simply

         5       said, "the real Majority Leader."  I only ask

         6       that, Senator Bruno -- I hope you'll appreciate

         7       a little attempt at humor -- because last week I

         8       heard you sound like Ronald Reagan when you

         9       talked about the importance of budget cuts and

        10       how you were going to revitalize the economy;

        11       and, today, I thought you sounded a lot like

        12       Franklin Roosevelt, when you talked about the

        13       importance of public works projects and how we

        14       had to use the public's money to spur all this

        15       job creation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  Is

        17       there a question, Senator?

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  There is a

        19       question.  Is it the position of the Majority in

        20       this house that we're now going to use public

        21       money to create a publicly-financed job creation

        22       project in this state rather than use the tax

        23       cut approach that we were trying to put into the











                                                             
4305

         1       budget last time, to use a privately financed

         2       creation of jobs?

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Senator, was that

         4       a question?

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, I was

         6       simply asking through you, Mr. President,

         7       whether there has been a philosophical change on

         8       the other side of the aisle -

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- whether to

        11       use publicly-financed -

        12                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.  Mr.

        13       President.  There has not been a philosophical

        14       change, but I want to thank Senator Dollinger

        15       for calling attention to the fact that I in my

        16       life, my colleagues on this side of the aisle

        17       are big enough to embrace philosophically great

        18       Americans like President Roosevelt, a former

        19       Senator who stood in this house and debated as

        20       we're debating and I admire him and I respect

        21       him and his memory and applaud so many of the

        22       things that he did to move this country forward,

        23       as did so many other Presidents, like President











                                                             
4306

         1       Reagan, President Bush, to help stimulate the

         2       economy of this state by doing what is

         3       necessary, states in the country, at appropriate

         4       times.

         5                      So philosophically, Mr.

         6       President, yes, we are for job creation.  Jobs

         7       create revenue; and, Mr. President, unlike some

         8       other states' people that were Presidents who

         9       created the welfare system in the United States,

        10       like President Johnson, that has taken this

        11       country to the brink of financial ruin and

        12       thanks to the good works that are presently

        13       being done in both houses, trying to change the

        14       direction of this country as the people have

        15       mandated this past November, and we embrace much

        16       of what's being done there, and we embrace now

        17       job creation and if that means that it is

        18       following philosophically in the steps of the

        19       great President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, then

        20       we do.  So the answer is yes.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through you,

        22       Mr. President.  The Majority Leader also said

        23       this would create hundreds of thousands of











                                                             
4307

         1       jobs.  Do you have an estimate of exactly how

         2       many jobs will be created; and how long will

         3       these jobs remain in place?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         5       Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  How long the jobs

         7       will last?  Well, for instance, in Rochester,

         8       you will have construction jobs that would take

         9       place immediately, and then you would have

        10       hundreds of ongoing jobs, maintaining

        11       facilities, utilizing the facilities, for

        12       instance; and when people attend functions,

        13       there are jobs created in restaurants, gas

        14       stations, dry cleaners, you name it.  So it

        15       truly is economic stimulation; and, Senator

        16       Leichter, had mentioned -- and in this answer,

        17       Mr. President, I would like to incorporate very

        18       specifically something that relates to you -

        19       talked about Gould Pumps; and I sense that it

        20       was disparaging in the way you addressed it

        21       which appeared, and I know you didn't mean it,

        22       almost like disdain, but I know you didn't mean

        23       it.  That Gould Pumps that was mentioned in this











                                                             
4308

         1       bill, it is a $1 million loan by UDC which

         2       leverages a $10 million availability that

         3       will create 1200 jobs in your neighborhood.

         4                      Now, Senator -- Mr. President,

         5       would you -- do you support the construction of

         6       the facilities in Rochester and Gould Pumps

         7       employing these 1200 people?  Do you support

         8       that?

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is he asking

        10       me to yield?

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  May I?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Dollinger, would you yield to that

        14       question?

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Absolutely.

        16       In fact, I voted against the capital budget that

        17       took out both the projects in Rochester.  You

        18       remember that, last week, one week ago today,

        19       when the budget came to this floor, "a balanced

        20       budget," as I was told by the Majority, and the

        21       Majority happened to delete both the Rochester

        22       projects.  You may remember, Mr. Majority

        23       Leader, that I stood up and said, "I'm going to











                                                             
4309

         1       vote against that budget because we're breaching

         2       our faith with the people in my community," and

         3       I voted against that, and, lo and behold, I find

         4       it suddenly dashed back into the economic

         5       development.

         6                      With all due respect to the

         7       Majority Leader, do you remember the poster I

         8       made?  I mean I got it sitting out in the hall.

         9       I've been told I can't bring it in; but remember

        10       the poster I made?  Remember, it said in big

        11       letters, "NO POOL."  Lo and behold, the pool is

        12       back.  We're swimming in money.

        13                      SPAC.  Remember, no SPAC.  All of

        14       a sudden SPAC is back.  There it is right in the

        15       economic stimulus bill.

        16                      Seems as though the Majority

        17       wants to have it both ways.  Cut it with one

        18       hand and deliver it with the other.  Sort of a

        19       little -- I don't know, some people would call

        20       it a shell game.  You take with one hand; you

        21       give with the other; you take with one hand; you

        22       give with the other.  It's like the old bob and

        23       weave style that Sugar Ray Leonard was famous











                                                             
4310

         1       for.  I see a lot of bobbing and weaving in all

         2       this discussion about a budget.

         3                      But let me ask a specific

         4       question about a project in Senator Bruno's

         5       district.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       Excuse me.  Senator Nozzolio, why do you rise?

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  I would like

         9       Senator Dollinger to yield, Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Senator Dollinger, would you yield to a

        12       question?

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will be

        14       glad to yield to Senator Nozzolio as soon as I

        15       ask a question of Senator Bruno.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        17       All right.  Senator Bruno, do you yield?

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President, and I would yield to Senator Nozzolio

        20       if he had a comment and if that's appropriate on

        21       the floor.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       Senator Dollinger, would you consent to that?











                                                             
4311

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Would you concur

         2       in that little transition, Senator?

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         4       President.  I was hoping I could ask my question

         5       of Senator Bruno first about the Rensselaer

         6       County project.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Fine.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So I could

         9       figure out what this all means as far as the

        10       money we're spending on the specific capital

        11       projects.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Bruno?

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO:  All right, Mr.

        15       President.  I will be happy to answer.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        17       President.  There is a five million

        18       appropriation in this economic stimulus bill for

        19       a project in Rensselaer County, and I understand

        20       you were asked by the press what it was and

        21       didn't divulge any details as to what the

        22       project was.  Could you tell me what the project

        23       was and where it is?











                                                             
4312

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Well, first,

         2       Senator, I'm sorry that I have to let you

         3       understand that everything we have to do with

         4       building, construction, job creation, can't go

         5       into Rochester.  Sorry about that.  Okay?

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

         7       that.  I shouldn't be a glutton for all the

         8       state spending right in Rochester.  I'm willing

         9       to spread it around.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Having said that,

        11       there is a very, very small piece that might

        12       find itself into Rensselaer County, Mr.

        13       President, and that very small piece would

        14       create potentially thousands of jobs because

        15       there are several sites in Rensselaer County

        16       suitable for private industry to move in and

        17       occupy and that five million was earmarked -

        18       for instance, Sterling Winthrop that moved out

        19       of this area, closed, cratered, thousands of

        20       jobs that moved out of this state due to the

        21       negative policies of the Cuomo administration in

        22       the last 12 years that you, Senator, have to

        23       take a responsibility for because he was your











                                                             
4313

         1       Governor and he was on the same side of the

         2       aisle -- I'm answering your question.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

         4       that.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  But because of

         6       that, Sterling left town.  They said, "We've had

         7       enough of taxes and spending by the Cuomo

         8       administration and all of those people on his

         9       side of the aisle that support him, so we're

        10       taking our good jobs," and they moved to

        11       Pennsylvania and other parts of the country.

        12                      So that five million, Senator, is

        13       intended, for instance, to renovate that

        14       facility that sits there.  You can see it from

        15       this side, the east side of the LOB or the

        16       Capitol, sits there empty with 350,000 usable

        17       feet.  With a paltry sum of potentially up to

        18       five million, we might have that 350,000 feet

        19       inhabited by people who are off welfare, off

        20       unemployment, and working; and that helps you,

        21       Senator.  It helps your constituents, and it

        22       helps mine.

        23                      So, yes, that's what that is











                                                             
4314

         1       intended for.

         2                      Now, can I give you details?

         3       No.  Are we talking to some people that can

         4       occupy that facility?  Yes.  If we went public

         5       with that, can that be detrimental?  Yes.  And

         6       will we?  No.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Senator Dollinger, now that Senator Bruno has

         9       answered your question, will you yield to the

        10       question of Senator Nozzolio?

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I would like

        12       to follow-up with Senator Bruno for a second.  I

        13       apologize to my colleague from Seneca.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  So

        15       at this time you will not yield to Senator

        16       Nozzolio?

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Not at this

        18       time.  I would like to just follow up with

        19       Senator Bruno.  I guess, Senator, I'm always

        20       surprised -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        22       Excuse me.  The Senator will not yield at this

        23       time.  He requests that Senator Bruno yield











                                                             
4315

         1       again for another question.  Senator Bruno, will

         2       you yield?

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         4       The good Senator had indicated that he just

         5       wanted to finish with one question before he

         6       would accommodate our colleague.  So I would

         7       just ask him if you wouldn't mind accommodating

         8       our colleague, because that's what you had said

         9       earlier?

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Certainly,

        11       Senator.

        12                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I would

        13       appreciate that.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I believe

        15       that admonition is appropriate.

        16                      I will now yield to Senator

        17       Nozzolio.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Senator Nozzolio.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      Senator Dollinger, are you aware

        23       that this measure has two athletic stadium











                                                             
4316

         1       facilities in it for the Rochester area?

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President, I am.

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  And if Mr.

         5       Dollinger will continue to yield?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       Will you continue to yield?

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Senator Nozzolio.

        11                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Are you aware,

        12       Senator, that among the projects listed here is

        13       a project that is very critical to the future of

        14       one of the larger manufacturers in our region,

        15       Gould Pumps?

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I understand

        17       there is a million dollar appropriation, Mr.

        18       President.  I don't know exactly what it goes

        19       for.  It isn't detailed in the budget, but I

        20       understand there is a million dollar loan

        21       appropriation to Gould Pumps.  I don't know the

        22       specifics of it.

        23                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  It's a million











                                                             
4317

         1       dollars -- just to clarify, Senator, it's a

         2       million dollar capital appropriation to RIT,

         3       Rochester Institute of Technology, to expand

         4       their Center for Integrated Manufacturing, the

         5       CIM's project into the Finger Lakes Region, and

         6       that RIT, the Rochester Institute of Technology,

         7       is extremely interested in expanding their

         8       efforts of economic development.  I wanted to

         9       test your awareness of those projects because I

        10       have a number of questions I would like to ask

        11       you.

        12                      If the Senator will continue to

        13       yield?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Senator Dollinger, will you continue to yield?

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will.

        17       Certainly.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Senator Nozzolio.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you,

        21       Senator Dollinger.  Senator Dollinger, let me

        22       just ask you your philosophical -- attempt at a

        23       philosophical argument.  You mentioned public











                                                             
4318

         1       works jobs.  I just want to point out, Senator,

         2       that public works jobs as I view them are short

         3       term government supported jobs.  You are

         4       supporting the stadium facility in Rochester,

         5       are you not?

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I am, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  And, Senator,

         9       it's my understanding, too, that you are

        10       supportive of the auditorium, the War Memorial

        11       renovations in the city of Rochester.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I do also

        13       support state participation in that project, as

        14       well.

        15                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator, if

        16       you will continue to yield?

        17                      You support both of those

        18       projects because I think you believe as I do -

        19       and please correct me if this statement is not

        20       accurate, but you believe as I do that both

        21       projects are important to the economic climate

        22       of the Rochester area.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I think both











                                                             
4319

         1       of them will have some positive benefit to the

         2       economic community of Rochester, that is

         3       correct.

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  And, Senator,

         5       in the past -- if you will continue to yield -

         6       you have supported RIT and CIMs, have you not?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I have.  Mr.

         8       President, I have.

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  And do you

        10       have any objection to the funding in this bill

        11       for RIT CIMs, the War Memorial facility, and the

        12       stadium at Rochester?

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Under the

        14       context of this bill, one of the things I will

        15       say before I finish my speech is that I intend

        16       to vote for this bill.  I think this is a

        17       wonderful bill.  I think this bill is the

        18       perfect bill.  I feel like I've died and gone to

        19       political nirvana.  This is a bill that allows

        20       me to cut taxes and to spend money without

        21       having to worry about its repercussion in the

        22       budget.  You've given me a wonderful

        23       opportunity.  I would love to vote for this.  I











                                                             
4320

         1       have voted for this every time.  I can reach up

         2       my sleeve and find a couple hundred million,

         3       just as I think you are.

         4                      But I think this bill doesn't

         5       make any sense because the budget we've passed

         6       that was balanced took all this stuff out; and,

         7       frankly, what I think happened is the Majority

         8       said, "Uh-oh, we can't do that.  We've got to

         9       have a political fig leaf," in the words of

        10       Senator Leichter.  So all of a sudden, the very

        11       next minute, even before the ink was dry on that

        12       budget bill the Majority of this house passed,

        13       all of a sudden, "It isn't a budget; it's

        14       economic development," and that's what everybody

        15       says now.

        16                      Well, I support economic

        17       development.  I'm going to vote in favor of

        18       economic development.  I voted against the

        19       capital budget because it was taken out of the

        20       capital budget.  My view is you can't have it

        21       both ways.  You can either take with one hand

        22       and move with the other.  That's what you would

        23       like.  I understand the politics of that; but,











                                                             
4321

         1       frankly, I'm going to vote in favor of this.

         2                      You have given me a wonderful

         3       opportunity which I fully intend to take.  It's

         4       sort of like risk-free law making.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Nozzolio.

         7                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Will Senator

         8       Dollinger continue to yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Will you continue to yield, Senator Dollinger?

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, I will.

        12                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator

        13       Dollinger, have we passed a state budget?

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I believe

        15       this body has.  Not with my support, but I

        16       believe it has passed a version of the state

        17       budget.

        18                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Certainly we

        19       would have liked your support, Senator, but I

        20       understand -

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It didn't

        22       have the stadium in it.  I couldn't vote for it.

        23                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  -- that this











                                                             
4322

         1       house has passed -

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Oh, excuse

         3       me.

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  -- a state

         5       budget, but the other has not.  Is that

         6       correct?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That is my

         8       understanding.

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  So we do not

        10       have a final state budget at this point, do we

        11       Senator?

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I don't

        13       believe so, and I think it becomes more

        14       difficult for us to get one when you vote a

        15       capital budget one day and the very next day you

        16       announce that you're going to do economic

        17       development which has a direct effect on our

        18       capital needs in this state.  I regard that as

        19       hypocritical.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator, you

        21       believe in an open budget process, do you not?

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I do.

        23                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  What we're











                                                             
4323

         1       attempting to do is, and the Majority Leader has

         2       made it very clear in every statement he's made

         3       on this issue, that we are proposing these

         4       projects openly, not behind closed doors, not

         5       three men in a room, not to hide them from the

         6       public.  We are putting them on the table in

         7       front of everyone now before there is a final

         8       state budget; because, as I understand it, the

         9       budget negotiations are continuing.

        10                      Do you have any word to the

        11       contrary that they are not continuing?

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through you,

        13       Mr. President.  I don't know whether they are

        14       continuing.  As you know, I don't participate.

        15                      What I will do is I think it's

        16       very confusing to our colleagues in the Assembly

        17       and to our Governor on the second floor when

        18       this body passes a budget one day that takes out

        19       a bunch of capital projects, takes out SPAC,

        20       takes out the natatorium, and the very next day,

        21       before the ink is dry, announces it's not part

        22       of the budget; it's economic development and,

        23       therefore, it's something different.











                                                             
4324

         1                      That's kind of what I regard as

         2       open -- perhaps open budgeting process and back

         3       room hypocrisy is what drives our colleagues in

         4       the Assembly and, frankly, the Governor and I

         5       believe everybody in this state crazy about this

         6       process.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Senator Nozzolio.

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Will Senator

        10       Dollinger continue to yield?

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator

        14       Dollinger, it is my understanding the Assembly

        15       has yet to pass a capital budget.  They have not

        16       enacted a project-by-project budget for our

        17       consideration.  However, the Assembly, as I

        18       understand it, has put in an amendment on

        19       stadium and other project funding.  Among -

        20       some of those projects are listed here,

        21       particularly those in Rochester.  Some have been

        22       directly excluded that were in the Governor's

        23       budget in the first instance, like a project in











                                                             
4325

         1       Auburn, like a project in Binghamton, in my

         2       opinion, for crass political purposes.  What

         3       we're suggesting is that we put our project list

         4       on the line and put it before the public, put it

         5       before this house and enact it as part of our

         6       negotiating strategy.  How possibly could you be

         7       opposed to that?

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         9       President, through you.  What I am opposed to is

        10       that you put your list before the people of this

        11       state last Wednesday.  You approved a capital

        12       budget that didn't have the War Memorial or the

        13       new stadium in it.  So you tell everybody in the

        14       state we're not going to fund these projects

        15       this year; and then with the other hand, you are

        16       out issuing an economic development piece that

        17       says we want to fund them.  Frankly, I can't

        18       understand which side of the mouth the Senate

        19       Majority is talking with when it comes to

        20       economic development projects.  One mouth, one

        21       hand, one side says, "We don't want these."  The

        22       other side says, "Please give us these."  No

        23       wonder people are confused.











                                                             
4326

         1                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr.

         2       President.  Will Senator Dollinger continue to

         3       yield?

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Dollinger yields.

         7                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      Senator, are you aware -- I'm not

        10       sure, you may not be aware.  From your comments,

        11       you don't appear to be aware that there is a

        12       funding mechanism in this budget bill.  Although

        13       it's not technically a budget bill, this bill

        14       before us has in it not just a project list but

        15       a revenue stream list, a funding list.  Doesn't

        16       that really answer the question that you are

        17       objecting to, that we have a funding list

        18       identified along with a project list?

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President.  If that were the case, why isn't it

        21       in the capital budget?  Why?  If it's balanced,

        22       put it in the capital budget.  I suspect and, lo

        23       and behold, I haven't been here long enough to











                                                             
4327

         1       know, but I'll just suspect.  I'll suspect that

         2       the Majority of this house wanted to pass a

         3       budget that would back the Governor and look

         4       tough on spending, and the reason why this

         5       wasn't in the budget is because if you put this

         6       in the budget you wouldn't look as tough as you

         7       want to appear to be.

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Was that a

         9       rhetorical question, or may I answer that?

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's

        11       rhetorical.  I will let Senator Nozzolio answer

        12       it.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  I

        14       forgot who's got the floor.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So have I,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator,

        18       answering your question, which I think is a

        19       question that certainly can be answered.  We do

        20       not have a budget yet.  There is nothing cast in

        21       stone.  This is a fluid part of the

        22       negotiations, albeit unprecedented, because we

        23       have never had an opportunity until Senator











                                                             
4328

         1       Bruno became Majority Leader to actually place

         2       the negotiation process before the public.

         3                      This is not a cast-in-stone

         4       budget.  We are making a legitimate attempt to

         5       list not only the capital projects we would like

         6       to see above and beyond what the Governor has

         7       already agreed to, we are taking a position in

         8       this house that a capital project list above

         9       what the Governor has suggested should be

        10       considered by our Legislature.

        11                      You, yesterday, were railing on

        12       the fact that the Legislature was abdicating

        13       responsibility.  Our Senate is taking

        14       responsibility for forming a budget.  We have

        15       agreed with the Governor, but we also believe

        16       that if this revenue is adopted that we think

        17       this should be part of the budget

        18       consideration.

        19                      Senator, your argument falls down

        20       because you superimpose that a budget is agreed

        21       on.  There is no agreement on a budget.  We're

        22       saying we want to forge that agreement and,

        23       frankly, we want to forge that agreement with











                                                             
4329

         1       projects that are very important to the area

         2       where you and I serve.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         4       Senator Nozzolio, is there a question there?

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  That was my

         6       answer to Senator Dollinger's nonrhetorical

         7       question.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         9       All right.  At this point, Senator Dollinger has

        10       the floor.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I think

        12       Senator Nozzolio's question highlights the

        13       problem that the people of this state have when

        14       the Senate Republicans say, "We have done our

        15       work; we've finished the budget."  Senator

        16       Nozzolio acknowledges it's fluid.  It's moving.

        17       It's a moving target.

        18                      It's moving so fast that on one

        19       day last week we sent a budget bill over to the

        20       Assembly that said, "We don't want the

        21       stadiums.  We don't want them.  We don't want

        22       the pool.  We don't want SPAC.  We don't want

        23       the MMA.  We don't want them."  The very next











                                                             
4330

         1       moment there is a press conference in which they

         2       announce, "We really do.  We really want them.

         3       We would love to have them.  We're going to call

         4       it economic development."

         5                      But imagine the confusion in the

         6       other house.  Imagine our colleagues in the

         7       Assembly who are trying to fashion a budget, and

         8       they get a budget bill that says, "no stadiums."

         9       And then they get a press release that says, "We

        10       want stadiums."  Then they get a budget bill

        11       that says, "no SPAC."  Then we get one that

        12       says, "Yes, we want SPAC."  Imagine how confused

        13       they must be when they sit down at the table and

        14       try to figure out what was really wanted.

        15                      Mr. President.  I consider this

        16       one of the easiest votes you will ever get in

        17       this chamber.  Please, all of my colleagues,

        18       vote for economic development.  Stand up with

        19       the legacy that Senator Bruno articulated of

        20       Franklin Delano Roosevelt.  Approve projects

        21       that will help our state.  Approve projects that

        22       will improve the possibility for jobs in this

        23       state.  Take advantage of that.











                                                             
4331

         1                      Put the laundry list back in.

         2       Approve handicapping tournaments for bettors at

         3       OTB.  I'm not sure what that will approve, but

         4       approve that, too; and, also, cut almost every

         5       tax you can find.  What a wonderful thing.  We

         6       get to spend more money, we get to cut more

         7       taxes, and it's all done without even worrying

         8       about its affect on the budget.

         9                      Believe me, I think this is the

        10       greatest opportunity you can have.  Vote for

        11       lower taxes, vote for increased spending.  It

        12       seems to be that everything we do in this house

        13       involves both of those.  It may be -- some may

        14       say it's basely hypocritical.  Not me.  I'm

        15       ready to vote to cut taxes and increase

        16       spending.  Let's do it.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Stachowski.

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Could I have

        20       somebody to answer some questions on the horse

        21       raising section of this?  Would it be Senator

        22       Bruno, or would it be somebody else?  On the

        23       horse section, I would like you to walk me











                                                             
4332

         1       through that.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         3       Senator Bruno.  Would you yield to a question?

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Senator -

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator, if

         6       you wait a minute, your guy is coming.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.  I

         8       would be happy to attempt to answer the

         9       questions.

        10                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        11       President.  First, could you -- in this bill,

        12       which is rather extensive, this part of the

        13       section on horse racing, can you tell me how

        14       NYRA will benefit?

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Generally, NYRA

        16       will benefit by lowering the taxes they pay on

        17       the money that is bet to the state.  They will

        18       benefit because they get to retain more of that,

        19       and there will also be some of the money that

        20       will instead of coming in as taxes will go back

        21       to the bettors that will stimulate the betting

        22       activity that will increase the revenue.

        23                      NYRA has been functioning at











                                                             
4333

         1       something -- depending on what numbers you use,

         2       from a $9-15 million a year deficit.  This will

         3       help close that deficit so their cash flow at

         4       least will be balanced.  That's the intent here.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Stachowski.

         7                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         8       President.  If Senator Bruno will yield again?

         9       Can you tell me, then, how will OTB benefit from

        10       this?

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  OTB, as you know,

        12       is stimulated by people's opportunities to bet.

        13       There will be more races that will go through

        14       the OTB parlors and the simulcast that they get

        15       most of the revenue from will be broadened

        16       somewhat so they will benefit.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        18       President.  If Senator Bruno will yield again?

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  How will the

        22       harness tracks benefit from this particular

        23       legislation?











                                                             
4334

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  They run, as you

         2       know, simulcasts at their facilities as well as

         3       races.  They will have more opportunities to

         4       derive revenue from increased exposure from

         5       other races out of state, and they are quite

         6       pleased with what is in this bill in terms of

         7       helping them get additional revenues because

         8       they are in desperate straits, as well.

         9                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       Senator Stachowski.

        13                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If Senator

        14       Bruno will yield again?

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  How, in this

        18       bill, will Finger Lakes benefit?  Because, as

        19       you know, they are separate from the harness

        20       tracks and they are also separate from NYRA.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        22       They will have additional races and more money

        23       will be driven to the purses there because they











                                                             
4335

         1       will have opportunities to have additional

         2       racing occasions.

         3                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If Senator

         4       Bruno would yield again?

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  And the fact

         8       that both Finger Lakes and the harness tracks

         9       don't get a direct tax break on the amount taken

        10       out of their bets doesn't make any difference to

        11       them?

        12                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Well, they

        13       participated, and they recognize this, last year

        14       in the cuts that they got last year, and they

        15       are very appreciative because it helped them

        16       balance their books and go forward, so they have

        17       been party to all the negotiations that were

        18       part of the process to put this package together

        19       and they have signed off on this, Mr. President,

        20       and we all recognize that we can't make all

        21       parties 1,000 percent happy.  It doesn't

        22       represent everyone getting everything that they

        23       would like to have happen, but they have signed











                                                             
4336

         1       off and feel that this helps them a great deal.

         2                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         3       President.  I have two last questions.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If that's

         7       okay.  One at a time, obviously.

         8                      Mr. President.  Can Senator Bruno

         9       answer how are the horsemen treated in this?

        10       Are they happy with this?  Do they get better

        11       treatment?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Bruno.

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO:  The Thoroughbred

        15       horsemen get about 15 million more in terms of

        16       their activities and their anticipation that's

        17       made available through purses and the other

        18       activities that benefit them.

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  The one last

        20       question, is there any effect on the New York

        21       breeders in this, or they are not touched by

        22       this at all, or there is no benefit?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4337

         1       Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  There is about

         3       500,000 that's of immediate benefit to them;

         4       but, Mr. President, you all recall that we did a

         5       very special bill last year for the breeders

         6       that enhanced their ability to thrive here in

         7       this state.  We did some things for them that

         8       was against the better judgment of some people,

         9       allowing brood mares to be out of state and be

        10       bred out of state and still qualify as New York

        11       bred, and all of that took place last year, and

        12       that was at their recommendation and direction.

        13       So this year, they get some help.  It's

        14       minimal.  They are not jumping with joy because,

        15       of course, every year they would like to be like

        16       to be visited, and they would like their lives

        17       to be made more profitable.  We would like to do

        18       that.  But the attitude was that we helped them

        19       the most last year, so this year we ought to

        20       broaden it, and that's what this bill reflects,

        21       but there is some help for them and, Mr.

        22       President, there is the ongoing help that I just

        23       described from last year.











                                                             
4338

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         2       Senator Stachowski.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator Onorato.

         5                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

         6       Would Senator Bruno yield to a couple of simple

         7       questions from a nonattorney?

         8                      SENATOR BRUNO:  If they are

         9       simple questions.  I doubt it coming from my

        10       learned colleague, but I will try and answer

        11       them.

        12                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No, I think

        13       these are very simple.  They have to be simple

        14       coming from me.

        15                      Senator Bruno, I understand

        16       originally we passed a budget bill last week for

        17       approximately $63 billion.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        19       It was 62 billion point 900 million and some

        20       change.

        21                      SENATOR ONORATO:  I stand

        22       corrected.

        23                      We offered a few amendments to











                                                             
4339

         1       make some restorations and were told at that

         2       particular time, "Where are you going to get the

         3       money?"  Lo and behold, this week we found that

         4       there was another $449 million added to the

         5       original budget that we passed.  We are just

         6       attempting to make another tax cut of about $80

         7       million or $90 million for this particular

         8       bill.  Wouldn't it be much more advantageous to

         9       us now to delay this budget?  Because it seems

        10       that every day we're finding more and more money

        11       revenue to spend.  Maybe if we go another month,

        12       we will wipe out the deficit completely.

        13                      (Laughter.)

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        15       Senator Bruno.

        16                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And then the

        17       Senator woke up and recognized that he was

        18       having a wonderful dream.

        19                      Senator, let's all just be clear

        20       on what we've done so far, okay, because this is

        21       important, and thank you for the question.  It's

        22       just as we rehearsed it.

        23                      (Laughter.)











                                                             
4340

         1                      We -- on March 31, Senator, we

         2       passed a balanced budget.  That budget increased

         3       spending by $335 million.  The Governor

         4       submitted a budget of 62.6.  We added 335

         5       million, making it the 62.935, approximately.

         6                      Now, where did that money come

         7       from, Mr. President?  Where did we find the $335

         8       million?  We found it at the table negotiating

         9       with your Leader, Speaker Silver, the Governor,

        10       and "Rap" Rappleyea, the leader of the Minority

        11       in the Assembly.  We agreed that next year there

        12       will be approximately 300 million in additional

        13       revenues to the state based on the best thinking

        14       and the best forecasts.  We all agree that is

        15       realistic and reasonable.  The other 35 came

        16       from reestimating the lottery receipts, and we

        17       agreed that that was a minimum number.  We think

        18       there is more than that.  The Speaker thought

        19       there was 130 million.  The Governor thought

        20       there was 25 million.  We know the best number

        21       is 60 million, but we couldn't agree on it.  So

        22       we took the minimum 35 million.  We put that in

        23       the budget.











                                                             
4341

         1                      Mr. President.  That's 335

         2       million, and we spent 499 million.  Where did

         3       the difference come from?  We moved some

         4       additional cuts and moved the money into

         5       restorations in Medicaid, in school aid, in

         6       higher ed aid, 164 million.  164 million, 335,

         7       makes 499, and that's exactly what we passed on

         8       March 31 for the people of this state.  You were

         9       in the chamber.  Such a great service by

        10       debating those bills and helping us make the

        11       point whether you supported them or not.  So we

        12       thank you for that participation.

        13                      But, Senator, you now ask where

        14       does this additional money come from?  The

        15       Speaker has said over and over, he thinks that

        16       there is anywhere from 300 million to... pick a

        17       number, because we're trying still to get it

        18       from him.  He still hasn't given us his

        19       numbers.  He thinks there is 300 million to a

        20       billion in additional revenue that has not been

        21       agreed on or verified, and I mentioned earlier

        22       that he thinks there is 80-100 million in

        23       revenue from sales taxes that aren't being paid











                                                             
4342

         1       from Indian reservations that are legally due

         2       the state.  For example, he thought there was

         3       about 150 million at UDC sitting there idle,

         4       waiting for us to use it, okay, to jump at it.

         5                      He thinks that, for instance, in

         6       Medicaid that the spending is overestimated.

         7       That it's really not what is in the Governor's

         8       budget.  He thinks it's about a $275 million

         9       number; and we thought it was 100; the Governor

        10       thought it was a hundred; and that was part of

        11       the 499.

        12                      That, Senator, is where the money

        13       will come from to fund the 50 million and the 80

        14       million in restorations, the 95 million that we

        15       deal with in this which represents an

        16       investment.

        17                      Once the leaders agree -- and I'm

        18       sure you are going to agree, Senator, that

        19       Speaker Silver if he thinks there is 300 million

        20       to... you name the number, there must be 95

        21       million; and once we agree on a number, what we

        22       are saying is, the first 95 million has to go to

        23       create jobs, and the Speaker has said that his











                                                             
4343

         1       priority in this state is the same as ours,

         2       create jobs.

         3                      So, he wants to create jobs.  We

         4       want to create jobs.  The Governor wants to

         5       create jobs.  The first 95 million that we agree

         6       on ought to go to our first priority that we all

         7       agree on, to create jobs; and, Mr. President, I

         8       am sure the good Senator will agree with that.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

        11                      SENATOR ONORATO:  If you will

        12       continue to yield?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        14       Senator Onorato.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Senator Bruno,

        18       what about the Keno money?  We haven't passed

        19       anything dealing with Keno, but I believe the

        20       projected Keno money is a part of this budget.

        21       Is that a fact?

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        23       My very learned colleague must know something











                                                             
4344

         1       that I don't know.  I don't believe that Keno is

         2       even proposed in the Governor's budget, Mr.

         3       President.  Has it been?

         4                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Quickdraw.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Oh, Quickdraw.

         6       Yes, Quickdraw.  Not Keno, Mr. President.

         7       Quickdraw is in the budget.  We have used that

         8       115 in the budget.  We used it to balance the

         9       budget.

        10                      SENATOR ONORATO:  We haven't

        11       passed a bill to allow it.

        12                      SENATOR BRUNO:  No.  We did that

        13       on purpose.  Mr. President.  I am pleased that

        14       the Senator has recognized that we did not pass

        15       the specifics of implementing that legislation

        16       because we are still discussing that in our

        17       conference, but we have told the Governor, the

        18       Speaker, that if that 115 million in our

        19       balanced budget is not there, then we will be

        20       back in this house with additional cuts, or we

        21       will then use some of this money that the

        22       Speaker says he is certain is there and that he

        23       is holding out for.  We will fill that 115 with











                                                             
4345

         1       that money that the Speaker will find for us,

         2       and we will be indebted to him if we can't pass

         3       it.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         5       Senator Onorato.

         6                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

         7       It would be safe to assume that my question was

         8       correct, that this budget is not balanced.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  No, Mr.

        10       President, that is not correct because we have

        11       created the legislation indicating that the

        12       revenue will be there.  The specifics of the

        13       Article 7 bill we didn't pass, and that's a

        14       second step for us to be specific.  So that is

        15       not correct.

        16                      It is, unfortunately, political

        17       rhetoric to say that we don't have a balanced

        18       budget.  It is not a fact.  It is not accurate.

        19                      What is accurate is that we did

        20       not do the Article 7 bills that specifically

        21       show the implementation.  I've asked the

        22       Speaker, "Is Quickdraw alive in your house?"  He

        23       says it's alive, and I believe him, and I say,











                                                             
4346

         1       "Do you think you can pass it?" and he says he

         2       believes he can.

         3                      Well, Mr. President, at the

         4       appropriate time we will do whatever is

         5       necessary to be specific, but that money is

         6       there, and that budget was balanced, and you can

         7       be comfortable with that, and you can sleep well

         8       and have very pleasant dreams thinking about

         9       that.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Senator Onorato.

        12                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Again, you've

        13       totally confused me again.  You're telling me

        14       that if we bet on this horse next week and it

        15       wins, we will have the money for it; but if the

        16       horse loses, we're right back where we started

        17       from.  That's the only way that I can analyze

        18       it, Senator Bruno.

        19                      Again, I'm not involved in your

        20       budget part; but as a layman, I think I probably

        21       speak on behalf of the laymen that I represent

        22       in my district, and these are some of the

        23       questions that they would like answered.











                                                             
4347

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         2       We have to recognize that among the greatest

         3       beneficiaries of this economic development

         4       package are the bricklayers of this state, and

         5       those bricklayers are imploring us to do this

         6       bill.

         7                      I just share that with you.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         9       Senator Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      What I think we really need to

        13       put a stop to once and for all is just this

        14       discussion of whether or not we have passed or

        15       not passed a budget.  We have not passed a

        16       budget.  The only difference between the Senate

        17       and the Assembly is that the Senate, this house,

        18       has put on the table some negotiations and,

        19       really, some programs that are empty in the

        20       sense that there is really no specific

        21       discussion of the funding or, in some cases, the

        22       funding exists but we don't know what the

        23       program is.











                                                             
4348

         1                      If it's going to be that

         2       slipshod, I really would suggest that we do

         3       something more responsible, such as what the

         4       Assembly is doing, which is just negotiating not

         5       in any way really pandering.

         6                      But since Senator Dollinger

         7       earlier advised us that this is a good bill,

         8       what we have just decided -- what I have decided

         9       is to issue an amendment.

        10                      And with the assistance of some

        11       underpaid superstars of our Finance Committee,

        12       we have an amendment which is at the desk, Mr.

        13       President?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:  It

        15       is at the desk.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.  I

        17       waive its reading and will just describe it as

        18       some of the great benefits that would actually

        19       be conferred upon many of Senator Onorato's

        20       constituents.  As Senator Dollinger was saying

        21       before, since we have this opportunity, we

        22       should actually use it.

        23                      It is that kind of enlightened











                                                             
4349

         1       thinking, by the way, that I think that former

         2       Senator Roosevelt used to go on and become

         3       President, and I think he was probably

         4       hoodwinked and cajoled in this chamber the same

         5       way that Senator Dollinger has been on occasion,

         6       so maybe you may not see the wisdom in what he's

         7       saying right now, but, years later, you will be

         8       able to tell many of your offspring that you

         9       served with Senator Dollinger.

        10                      (Laughter.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       Senator Paterson to explain the amount.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator

        14       Paterson, will you yield?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Senator Skelos.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Are you

        18       suggesting that Senator Dollinger is planning to

        19       leave this chamber and seek higher office?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Only the

        23       highest of offices and with your endorsement,











                                                             
4350

         1       Senator, I think that he may get there.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  This amendment

         3       is really one that would roll back and eliminate

         4       a number of taxes and fees that have been

         5       imposed or initiated since 1989, many of which

         6       were in the 1990 tax bill which this Conference

         7       voted against.  It is really these types of

         8       taxes that are causing the greatest economic

         9       disincentive to the state and it is to the

        10       little people of the state not to corporations.

        11                      What we would do is actually roll

        12       back and reduce 33 taxes and eliminate 7 of

        13       them.  We eliminate the tax on the transfer of

        14       ownership of automobiles, the tax for the

        15       registration of automobiles.  We eliminate the

        16       tax on insurance for automobiles.  Also, we are

        17       eliminating the tax for farm commissaries and

        18       for child abuse research, which is one that

        19       never should have existed in the first place.

        20       We also are going to reduce the taxes on

        21       marriage licenses, death certificates, and the

        22       like; and so I offer this amendment at this

        23       time, Mr. President.











                                                             
4351

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         2       The question is on the amendment.  All in favor,

         3       signify by saying aye.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote in

         5       the affirmative.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote, Mr.

         7       President, in the negative.

         8                      And if I might just add this

         9       comment that we on this side of the aisle

        10       support everything that is in that package, and

        11       I want to speak to the record in that

        12       recognition, and I applaud my colleagues on that

        13       side of the aisle for being so diligent and

        14       specifically recognizing the disasters of the

        15       past 12 years of the Cuomo administration, and I

        16       respectfully suggest that we have to be in the

        17       negative because they didn't give us that 24

        18       hours notice that they always would like to have

        19       on this amendment on that side of the aisle, and

        20       they didn't do that so, procedurally, we can't

        21       be in the affirmative, Mr. President.  That

        22       makes me feel very badly; and, further, had we

        23       had this list yesterday, we would have added to











                                                             
4352

         1       the list many things that you have missed and

         2       that you then could have been voting on

         3       something that would have been even more

         4       meaningful.

         5                      So respectfully, we must be in

         6       the negative, and I feel badly about that.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Senator Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        10       President.  I don't feel so badly about that,

        11       because we are still in budget negotiation and

        12       the Majority Leader has now put on the record

        13       that he would like to see these tax cuts put

        14       into the final budget, and I'm sure he knows

        15       from whence they came.  This is the type of

        16       cooperation that we would like to have.

        17                      We could lay this bill aside for

        18       a day, Mr. Majority leader, and we could come

        19       back, and at that time -

        20                      He doesn't want to lay this bill

        21       aside for the day.  Well, that's all right.  As

        22       long as the point is made that if we are going

        23       to be cutting taxes for corporations, cutting











                                                             
4353

         1       taxes for businesses that may be housed in -

         2       somewhere, we don't know where it is, but we

         3       know how much money it's going to cost, and

         4       we'll appropriate it, but we will wait until

         5       negotiations later on, that we're going to do

         6       something for the little people of the state,

         7       people who are registering their cars, people

         8       who have to pay tax for the transfer of

         9       ownership of their cars, often parking permit

        10       taxes, the parking taxes themselves.

        11                      We're happy to know that we have

        12       the support of everyone here in the house on

        13       those particular issues; and so since the

        14       amendment was defeated, Mr. President, I'm glad

        15       to see the staff got paid today.  I guess I won

        16       that round; and with that, I will retire.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Leichter, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        22       Yes.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  To explain my











                                                             
4354

         1       vote, please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         3       Well, I believe the Secretary has not completed

         4       taking the party line vote as yet.

         5                      Would you please call the roll

         6       and take the party line vote.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Call my name,

         9       please, Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Please take the party vote first, and then you

        12       can explain your vote.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 23.  Nays

        14       35.  Party vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       The amendment is defeated.

        17                      To explain your vote, Senator

        18       Leichter.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.  I must say I feel somewhat dizzy

        21       having listened to this debate and the Majority

        22       Leader.  If I understand his position on this

        23       amendment is that he thinks it's an excellent











                                                             
4355

         1       amendment.  It's something that all the

         2       taxpayers of the State of New York and the

         3       people of the State of New York are entitled to,

         4       but he won't give them this benefit because he

         5       is going to insist on the procedural ground that

         6       not having had 24 hour notice, he is telling the

         7       people of the State of New York you can't have a

         8       benefit that he thinks they ought to have.

         9                      I just want to say we are trying

        10       to compete with you in irresponsibility but

        11       we're no match for you whatsoever.  We've tried,

        12       but you are much better.  When it comes to

        13       irresponsibility, I've got to say we're novices

        14       here but we're trying.

        15                      Mr. President.  I vote in the

        16       affirmative.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  To explain my

        21       vote.  Very briefly, Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       This is to explain your vote on the amendment;











                                                             
4356

         1       correct?

         2                      SENATOR WALDON:  That's correct.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         4       All right.  Please, Senator Waldon to explain

         5       his vote.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President

         7       and my colleagues.  I thought when our

         8       distinguished Majority Leader spoke to Quickdraw

         9       and said that if we were short in terms of

        10       balancing the budget that we would come back and

        11       do something else, I wonder what that would be.

        12       I heard whispered in the background that maybe

        13       we would have a contrast to Quickdraw.  It would

        14       be "slow draw".  I don't know, but because of

        15       the positive side of Senator Paterson's

        16       amendment, I have to vote with Senator Paterson

        17       on this issue.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        19       Please read the last section on Calendar 353.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       Please call the roll.











                                                             
4357

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  This is on the

         3       main bill.  Slow roll call.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         5       The Secretary will read the roll slowly.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Senator Bruno.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Connor.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        14       To explain my vote.  I'm going to vote against

        15       this bill because, frankly, it's nothing but an

        16       empty political exercise on the part of the

        17       Majority.  When this bill first surfaced last

        18       week, I was asked by a reporter if there was any

        19       pork in it.  I said there was enough pork to

        20       make sausage for the whole state, but it's not

        21       just because there are local projects in here.

        22       There are tax cuts that will balloon; and I feel

        23       very, very strongly we have a budget deficit











                                                             
4358

         1       this year, and everybody in this budget process

         2       is struggling to close that deficit.

         3                      Somewhere between $4 billion and

         4       $5 billion it's been reported as, or claimed,

         5       and it ought to be our job to close that

         6       deficit, pass a balanced budget and not create

         7       future deficits which these ballooning tax cuts

         8       would do.  I support doing something about

         9       getting rid of taxes like the petroleum business

        10       tax, and getting rid of -- I'm not a fan of

        11       gross receipts taxes and things like that, but I

        12       think we have to be fiscally responsible.  We

        13       have to balance this year's budget and not

        14       create structural deficits in the future; and I

        15       asked the Governor -- when this surfaced last

        16       week, I asked the Governor, "Do you support

        17       this?"  Because if you will recall, last week,

        18       the Majority is putting out a budget that they

        19       said they had agreement on.  The Governor and

        20       the Majority did a budget last week, and now we

        21       have a bill that the Governor doesn't support.

        22       He said, "I don't support that."  In fact,

        23       Senator Bruno said we have one-way agreement on











                                                             
4359

         1       it, namely, the Majority only in this house, and

         2       I don't think that's a responsible way to go

         3       about this budget process.

         4                      You can call it anything you

         5       want, but this spends money, cuts taxes, changes

         6       tax laws, and in one way or another spends money

         7       whether by bonding or otherwise.  That looks

         8       like a budget bill to me, and I don't think it

         9       has any place at this stage of the debate, since

        10       it doesn't even have the support of the Governor

        11       much less anyone in the other house.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       How do you vote?

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  No.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Please continue the roll call.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

        18                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        20       DeFrancisco.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator DiCarlo.

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Aye.











                                                             
4360

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         2       Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  To explain my

         4       vote, Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Dollinger to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The logic of

         8       this bill reminds me of the old adage from

         9       Catch-22.  I think it was Milo Milabender.  He

        10       could buy eggs for a nickel, sell them for 3

        11       cents, and make a penny, and I've never

        12       understood that logic.  I don't understand the

        13       logic of this; but, as I said before, you give

        14       me the opportunity to vote for all kinds of tax

        15       cuts which I don't have to pay for and all kinds

        16       of projects which I don't have to pay for, many

        17       of them very good, many of which I strongly

        18       support.

        19                      Let's do it in a context of a

        20       budget when we get serious.  When we do it in

        21       that serious vein, I will be voting in a way

        22       that, at least from my point of view, I'll be

        23       able to say to the people of my district, I've











                                                             
4361

         1       done the right thing on this.  I'm going to vote

         2       in the affirmative.  I'm going to take the

         3       opportunity, gentlemen.  I hate to pass it up.

         4       There are some good things in this, but I think

         5       we need to get serious, and let's start doing

         6       that.  I'm voting in the affirmative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Senator Dollinger in the affirmative.

         9                      Please continue the roll call.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        11                      SENATOR ESPADA:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Gold.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Senator Gonzalez.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Goodman, excused.

        21                      Senator Hannon.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoblock











                                                             
4362

         1       voting in the affirmative earlier today.

         2       Senator Hoffmann, excused.  Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

         5                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

         7                      SENATOR JONES:  To explain my

         8       vote.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Senator Jones to explain her vote.

        11                      SENATOR JONES:  I, too, want to

        12       say thank you for this opportunity to cut taxes

        13       and do all these wonderful things.  Sometimes in

        14       life you have to accept something on faith

        15       alone, so I'm just here to say I have faith in

        16       you.  I expect this money is going to turn up,

        17       so I will be waiting until I see it, but I will

        18       certainly support you in the meantime.  I vote

        19       yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones in

        21       the affirmative.

        22                      Senator Kruger.

        23                      SENATOR KRUGER:  No.











                                                             
4363

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl.

         2                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

         4                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Aye.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

         8                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leibell.

        10                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Aye.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        12       Leichter.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        14       President.  To explain my vote.  I have some

        15       advice for Senator Bruno.  If this budget

        16       impasse continues and we don't get paid and he

        17       runs out of money, I know the perfect job for

        18       him.  Along Fifth Avenue, there's people that

        19       play these little card games.  They are called

        20       three-card Monte, and he has shown much more

        21       skill than any of these.  I have listened to the

        22       debate.  I heard Senator Nozzolio say, "Well, of

        23       course, we don't have a budget; nothing is











                                                             
4364

         1       written in stone," meaning what you people did

         2       on March 31, "Don't take us seriously.  What?

         3       Are you so foolish as to think that we actually

         4       believed it?"

         5                      Then I heard Senator Bruno say,

         6       Yes, we have a budget.  It's a balanced budget,

         7       but, of course, there's holes in it.  Maybe

         8       we'll do something about it.  If we don't, we

         9       will always turn to our friend the Speaker and

        10       take whatever estimate that he comes up with;

        11       and, of course, we've got to get rid of these

        12       terrible taxes.

        13                      Wait a second.  These are the

        14       taxes that Senator Bruno and the Majority

        15       enacted.  Over the years, you guys enacted it.

        16       Suddenly, they're so -- you know, they are so

        17       terrible.  So I can just say this is -- what we

        18       have here, clearly, is a three-card Monte

        19       budget.

        20                      Mr. President.  I vote in the

        21       negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       Senator Leichter in the negative.











                                                             
4365

         1                      Please continue the roll call.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         3                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         5                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Marcellino.

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Markowitz.

        14                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Mr.

        15       President.  I want to be as principled as I can,

        16       like my colleagues who are fortunate enough to

        17       have stadiums in their respective senatorial

        18       districts if and when this ever becomes

        19       reality.  Let me just say that I represent a

        20       borough of Brooklyn, 2.3 million people, perhaps

        21       even more than that; and Senator DiCarlo, who I

        22       am delighted has introduced legislation creating

        23       a Brooklyn sports complex, we in Brooklyn with











                                                             
4366

         1       2.3 million people have nothing but back lots,

         2       empty lots, that we have to use as little mini

         3       stadiums; and, to me, looking at the stadiums

         4       that are being proposed throughout Upstate New

         5       York, when the largest, most populated county in

         6       the entire state hasn't even got one stadium, I

         7       can't in good conscience vote for this bill as

         8       much as those of you who have stadiums in your

         9       conscience are voting for the bill.

        10                      I vote no.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       Senator Markowitz in the negative.

        13                      Please continue the roll.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maziarz.

        15                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Montgomery.

        20                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        23       Senator Montgomery to explain her vote.











                                                             
4367

         1                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, I would

         2       like to explain my vote.

         3                      Mr. President.  I'm voting

         4       against this legislation and following what my

         5       leader has so eloquently stated regarding the

         6       structural deficit that this bill seems to be

         7       leading to.  We don't have -- at least I have

         8       not had the privilege of seeing any analysis

         9       that the Republicans may have had as to how much

        10       this tax cut will cost us in addition to the tax

        11       cut that the Governor is proposing, which we

        12       estimate to be $14 billion over the long period

        13       of those tax cuts.

        14                      So I don't know what this does to

        15       the budget, so that obviously is a major

        16       problem; and then I look at this -- the

        17       proposals for bonding 270 -- over $270 million

        18       that we are authorizing in bonding for obviously

        19       some projects that many of us appreciate and

        20       approve of.  However, my question is, can we

        21       afford this at this time as we look at a $5

        22       billion budget deficit in our state?  This

        23       bonding is stretched out over 30 years, and I











                                                             
4368

         1       can't calculate how much it is going to cost us,

         2       but I certainly can look around the room and I

         3       know who's going to pay for it.  Just look

         4       around the room on the Republican side and on

         5       the Democratic side and all of these young

         6       people sitting along this wall and standing back

         7       here, and all of those young people are going to

         8       pay for it, not us.  It's going to create a

         9       deficit for them to have to deal with when they

        10       are ready to buy their homes and send their

        11       children to college and appreciate the quality

        12       of life that we've always -- we've expected,

        13       grown to expect and many of us have profited

        14       by.

        15                      So that's what we're doing with

        16       this proposal, and I'd just like to put on

        17       record that this is a Republican proposal which

        18       Democrats will be blamed for, will be blamed for

        19       as big spenders.  It's the social programs.

        20       It's the welfare people in my district and

        21       throughout this state.  It's the poor old people

        22       who are in the nursing homes.  They will be

        23       blamed for this that we're proposing today; and











                                                             
4369

         1       even though it doesn't happen, I think we should

         2       make note of where the proposal comes from.

         3       It's the idea.  It's the attitude that it

         4       doesn't matter what we do right now because

         5       someone else will pay for it; and when it comes

         6       time for it to be paid for, it's the poor people

         7       and the small people in this state and in this

         8       nation who are going to pay for it.

         9                      I vote no.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        11       Senator Montgomery in the negative.  Please

        12       continue the roll call.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nanula.

        14                      SENATOR NANULA:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Nozzolio.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        18       Senator Nozzolio to explain his vote.

        19                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President, my colleagues.  This house passed a

        21       budget, but we do not have a final budget, and I

        22       believe this step today is a way to put on the

        23       table those investments that we seek to place in











                                                             
4370

         1       our state.

         2                      There is so much of our state

         3       budget that does not yield a return in terms of

         4       additional job and economic development.  We

         5       have less manufacturing jobs today than we did

         6       when Roosevelt was President; and,

         7       unfortunately, that is Theodore Roosevelt.  We

         8       have less manufacturing jobs today than the

         9       state of Alabama, a state that is much more

        10       rural than New York.  What this does is instill

        11       a spark of investment into our economy that will

        12       help in the jump-starting of the economy that we

        13       so much want to see.  A million dollars is

        14       earmarked for the largest private sector

        15       manufacturer within my district that will help

        16       keep 1300 jobs in New York State, jobs that are

        17       very seriously threatened to move to other

        18       states.

        19                      Senator Bruno, the Governor, the

        20       Speaker, are all negotiating a budget.  We are

        21       negotiating with our votes here in this body.

        22       We are negotiating in public with the public

        23       scrutinizing what we do because of the efforts











                                                             
4371

         1       of our Majority Leader.  This funding not only

         2       puts stadia in Upstate New York, and that will

         3       help economic development, but, most

         4       importantly, it enhances the manufacturing base

         5       by investing in our future.

         6                      Mr. President.  It's a great step

         7       in the right direction, and I fully support it.

         8                      I vote aye.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        10       Senator Nozzolio in the affirmative.

        11                      Please continue the roll call.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

        13                      SENATOR ONORATO:  To explain my

        14       vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Senator Onorato to explain his vote.

        17                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

        18       I do believe a great deal of merit is in this

        19       bill, but I have a great deal of problems voting

        20       for it only because of the fact that there is

        21       too much "if" money in here, and that's $110

        22       million based upon the Quickdraw.  If it doesn't

        23       go through, we're going to raise false hopes in











                                                             
4372

         1       most of our constituency who have had some of

         2       their funding restored to the budget.  If this

         3       doesn't come through, we're going to have to

         4       come back here again and tell them, "Well, we

         5       made a mistake.  We are going to have to

         6       withdraw all of the restorations that we made to

         7       the tune of another $110 million; and until such

         8       time that we can get an established amount of

         9       money that we actually have on hand to spend I

        10       can not support this legislation.

        11                      I vote no.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Senator Onorato in the negative.

        14                      Please continue the roll call.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Oppenheimer.

        17                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.











                                                             
4373

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

         2                      SENATOR RATH:  To explain my

         3       vote.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         5       Senator Rath to explain her vote.

         6                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, my

         7       colleagues.  It has been very interesting going

         8       back to the district as we all did last weekend

         9       for a day or two.  I was fortunate enough to be

        10       out, as it were, on the hustings and talking

        11       with people that I have known for a long time,

        12       and I have started a new opener when I start

        13       conversations.  I say to people who I know are

        14       in business or involved, I start with "How's

        15       business?"  That's my question, "How's

        16       business?"

        17                      Let me tell you what I got.  Last

        18       week I said this to a gentleman who is a CEO of

        19       a very large manufacturing concern.  He said,

        20       "Business is great.  It's never been better."

        21       He said, "I can't tell you what's happening, but

        22       it's wonderful."

        23                      The second business is a woman











                                                             
4374

         1       owned business opened just a year ago.  I'm not

         2       really sure whether she had some help from the

         3       state, but I wouldn't be surprised.  She told me

         4       about how hard she's working, but she's putting

         5       people to work for her, added two or three more

         6       employees, and it's going very, very well.  She

         7       said she was working very hard.

         8                      The third was one I thought,

         9       "This is going to be a real negative, but I'm

        10       going to ask it anyway."  It's a small family

        11       business that was an electronics business and

        12       the father was a very proficient engineer and

        13       everyone said he was the business.

        14       Unfortunately, the man died very unexpectedly

        15       and his two sons continued with the business,

        16       and I said to the mother, "How is the business

        17       going?"  She said, "Well, my boys are working

        18       two jobs but it looks like the electronics

        19       business is going to come together.  They are

        20       getting more and more contracts."

        21                      That's the best news I have heard

        22       in Western New York in a long, long time.  Now,

        23       whether there is a change in attitude starting











                                                             
4375

         1       in New York State, I certainly hope so.  Is it

         2       because we have a Republican Governor?  I don't

         3       think it could happen that quickly, but what I

         4       see us passing here today are more opportunities

         5       and more incentives for business to take a

         6       second look at New York State.

         7                      I ask you when you're out on the

         8       hustings in your district, use that as an

         9       opener.  People who are in business, ask them,

        10       "How's business?"  I think it will be a really

        11       interesting exercise.

        12                      I vote yes.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        14       Senator Rath in the affirmative.

        15                      Please continue the roll call.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Santiago.

        20                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sears.

        22                      SENATOR SEARS:  Aye.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.











                                                             
4376

         1                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

         5                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

         7                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        11       Stachowski.

        12                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford.

        14                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stavisky.

        16                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  No.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

        18                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        20                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        22                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.











                                                             
4377

         1                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  (Indicating

         4       no.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

         6                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         8       Please call the absentees.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.

        10                      SENATOR BABBUSH:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Gold.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator Gonzalez.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Maltese.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        20       Results.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.  Nays

        22       16.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4378

         1       The bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Bruno.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         4       Is there any housekeeping at the desk that we

         5       should deal with?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         7       Yes, there is.

         8                      Senator Farley.

         9                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.  On behalf of Senator Hannon, on page

        11       24, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        12       Number 306, Senate Print 2086, and I ask that

        13       that bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        14       Calendar.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        16       Amendments received, and I believe we have a

        17       substitution.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  On page number

        19       21, Senator Leibell moves to discharge, from the

        20       Committee on Housing, Assembly Bill 5098, and

        21       substitute it for its identical Senate Bill,

        22       Calendar Number 277.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:











                                                             
4379

         1       Substitution ordered.

         2                      That completes the housekeeping.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         4       We have finished our business here in this

         5       house, and we have finished our business on

         6       behalf of the people of this state.  We have

         7       passed a balanced budget in this house, Mr.

         8       President, and we passed it before the April 1

         9       deadline, and I am proud of this; and on behalf

        10       of my colleagues, I say thank you.

        11                      The people of this state know

        12       where we stand on this budget.  We, Mr.

        13       President, having done our work, are going home

        14       and we will go home to communicate with our

        15       constituents, and we will share with our

        16       constituents the differences between this house

        17       and the Assembly, and we will share with our

        18       constituents, Mr. President, that we are waiting

        19       for the Assembly to give us numbers so that we

        20       can negotiate in good faith.  We don't have

        21       numbers.  We need them; and when the Assembly

        22       gives us numbers, when the Assembly passes their

        23       own budget, when the Assembly puts us in a











                                                             
4380

         1       position where we can negotiate a budget for the

         2       people of this state in good faith, we will

         3       return and we will be back; and, Mr. President,

         4       I would hope and pray it would be tomorrow and

         5       if not tomorrow, Friday; and if not Friday,

         6       Saturday; and if not Saturday, Sunday and, Mr.

         7       President, what comes after Sunday is Monday;

         8       and there being no further business to come

         9       before the Senate -

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        12       Excuse me.  Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Might I ask

        14       the Majority Leader to yield for a brief

        15       question before he goes home?  I just wanted to

        16       clear something up.  Tomorrow was actually a

        17       regular calendar day on the original schedule,

        18       and it is the deadline at which we would file

        19       motions for discharge for bills that we would

        20       like to bring to the floor of the Senate.  Being

        21       that we will not have a session on tomorrow,

        22       April the 6th, may we file those motions

        23       tomorrow anyway without a session, or may we











                                                             
4381

         1       file those motions on April the 10th when we

         2       come back on Monday?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         4       Senator Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  When can we

         6       accomplish that?  September 10th I hear.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  In terms of good

         8       government, that's a good suggestion that you

         9       file them on September 10th.

        10                      Mr. President.  I would leave

        11       that up to the pleasure of the Deputy Minority

        12       Leader.

        13                      My very learned counsel is

        14       indicating to me that we need a specific date

        15       and they need a specific date, and I would

        16       recommend that that be on Monday, April 10, when

        17       we will definitely be back here; and if we

        18       should be back here before that, then we can

        19       adjust accordingly; but I would recommend,

        20       Senator Paterson, if that meets with your

        21       approval, that we do that on April 10th.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  That very much

        23       meets with my approval, and we thank the











                                                             
4382

         1       Majority Leader for moving that date up five

         2       months, just at the wave of his hand; and,

         3       hopefully, we will be back here before then to

         4       pass the budget.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

         6       Senator Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         8       We certainly concur in that.  That would be a

         9       godsend for us and for all of the people of this

        10       state.  Recognize, Mr. President, that this

        11       Governor has said he is going to veto bills, so

        12       that for us to just be here doing things to land

        13       on the desk to get vetoed doesn't make a lot of

        14       sense.

        15                      So, there being no further

        16       business to come before the Senate, I move we

        17       stand adjourned until Monday, April 10th, at

        18       3:00 p.m., Republican conference at 2:00, and

        19       intervening days to be legislative days.

        20                      Thank you.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

        22       Without objection, the Senate stands adjourned

        23       until Monday, April 10, at 3:00 p.m.,











                                                             
4383

         1       intervening days being legislative days.

         2                      (Whereupon, at 1:14 p.m., Senate

         3       adjourned.)

         4

         5

         6