Regular Session - April 25, 1995

                                                                 
4980

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                        April 25, 1995

        10                          3:03 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

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        15

        16

        17       LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY, President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        23











                                                             
4981

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.  Would everyone please rise and

         4       repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (Whereupon, the Senate and those

         6       present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to

         7       the Flag.)

         8                      The invocation today will be

         9       given by the Reverend Peter G. Young of the

        10       Blessed Sacrament Church in Bolton Landing.

        11                      Reverend Young.

        12                      REVEREND FATHER PETER G. YOUNG:

        13       Let us pray.

        14                      May all of the Senators in this

        15       house pray for the hungry, the homeless, those

        16       that are denied dignity, and those that have no

        17       hope, that this legislative body will improve

        18       their condition and that our compassionate

        19       efforts will remove the causes of their

        20       suffering.

        21                      We pray this in Your name, now

        22       and forevermore.  Amen.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Amen.











                                                             
4982

         1                      The reading of the Journal,

         2       please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

         4       Monday, April 24th.  The Senate met pursuant to

         5       adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the chair upon

         6       designation of the Temporary President.  The

         7       Journal of Sunday, April 23rd, was read and

         8       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        10       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        11                      Presentation of petitions.

        12                      Messages from the Assembly.

        13                      Messages from the Governor.

        14                      Reports of standing committees.

        15                      Reports of select committees.

        16                      Communications and reports from

        17       state from officers.

        18                      Motions and resolutions.

        19                      Senator Bruno, are you ready for

        20       the resolution calendar?

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Madam

        22       President.  At this time, I would like to adopt

        23       the Resolution Calendar.











                                                             
4983

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  All in favor of

         2       adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by

         3       saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The Resolution Calendar is

         8       adopted.

         9                      Senator Bruno.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President.

        11       I believe there is a resolution at the desk.

        12       We'd appreciate having it read in its entirety

        13       and move for its immediate adoption.

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        15       will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Tully,

        17       Legislative Resolution, commending the 1995

        18       senior class of Henry Viscardi School,

        19       Albertson, New York, upon the occasion of their

        20       visit to the New York Legislature on Tuesday,

        21       April 25, 1995.

        22                      Whereas, it is the sense of this

        23       legislative body that the character and quality











                                                             
4984

         1       of life in this great Empire State is abundantly

         2       enriched by organizations which selflessly serve

         3       to promote the health and welfare of the

         4       citizenry; and

         5                      Whereas, this Legislative Body is

         6       justly proud to commend the 1995 senior class of

         7       Henry Viscardi School, Albertson, New York, upon

         8       the occasion of their visit to the New York

         9       State Legislature on Tuesday, April 25, 1995;

        10       and

        11                      Whereas, Henry Viscardi School,

        12       previously known as Human Resources School, has

        13       been providing a high quality education for

        14       children with orthopedic, health, and multiple

        15       disabilities for over 25 years; and

        16                      Whereas, the school is a division

        17       of the National Center of Disability Services,

        18       Henry Viscardi School is located on a 15-acre

        19       campus in Nassau County; and

        20                      Whereas, Henry Viscardi School

        21       offers an outstanding educational, social, and

        22       therapeutic experience for children ages 3

        23       through 21; its high academic standards have











                                                             
4985

         1       resulted in a 70 percent college entrance rate,

         2       thus exceeding the national average for all

         3       students graduating high school in the United

         4       States; this high standard is achieved with a

         5       highly-trained staff working in small classes,

         6       in a modern facility with access to a wide range

         7       of modern technology equipment; and

         8                      Whereas, the faculty of Henry

         9       Viscardi School along with Dr. Andrew Rothstein,

        10       Superintendent of Schools, are committed to

        11       actively promoting and nurturing a full and

        12       comprehensive program for all students; and

        13                      Whereas, the 1995 senior class

        14       includes Peter Almodovar, Bethany Chandler,

        15       Anabela Contente, Kenneth DiLauro, Melissa Male,

        16       Dean Mariano, Jennifer McNair, Michael Ruzalski,

        17       Bhavika Shah, Donald Sorokin, Christopher

        18       Tartaro, John Cervello, Georgette Sullivan,

        19       Luigi Dellapina, Ngozi Graham, Dina Ragavania,

        20       Karen Bond, Sabrina Caple, Tawn Farrell, Amy

        21       Wong, Michael Muller and Steven Anderson; now,

        22       therefore, be it

        23                      Resolved, that this Legislative











                                                             
4986

         1       Body pause in its deliberations to express its

         2       appreciation to Henry Viscardi School for meet

         3       ing the special needs of hundreds of children in

         4       New York State and to extend a warm welcome to

         5       the faculty and students on their visit to

         6       Albany; and be it further

         7                      Resolved, that copies of this

         8       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         9       to the students and faculty of Henry Viscardi

        10       School.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Tully.

        12                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Madam

        13       President.  Today, we have the high honor of

        14       hosting the senior class of the Henry Viscardi

        15       School and their Superintendent, Dr. Andrew

        16       Rothstein, as guests in our chamber.  The Henry

        17       Viscardi School, based in Albertson, New York,

        18       specializes in educating students with severe

        19       physical disabilities from throughout the New

        20       York metropolitan area.

        21                      This year, the senior class

        22       decided to come to Albany to witness New York

        23       State government in action.  These students,











                                                             
4987

         1       whose special brand of strength and determina

         2       tion has enabled them to overcome their dis

         3       abilities and instead focus on their abilities

         4       and talents, are among the most gifted students

         5       that I ever met.

         6                      This year's class has 23

         7       graduating seniors, all of whom have made

         8       post-graduation plans.  Some have made plans to

         9       go on to college, and some have made plans for

        10       transition into vocational training programs.

        11       Whatever their intention, knowing these young

        12       adults and the school from which they come, each

        13       will be an important and productive member of

        14       society.

        15                      Madam President, I hope you and

        16       all of my colleagues will join me in welcoming

        17       the senior class of the Henry Viscardi School to

        18       Albany.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

        20                      The question is on the

        21       resolution.  All in favor, signify by saying

        22       aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
4988

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The Resolution is adopted.

         4                      How about some applause.

         5                      (Applause.)

         6                      Senator Farley.

         7                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Madam

         8       President.  On behalf of Senator Skelos, I move

         9       to amend his bill, Senate Print 397A, by

        10       striking out the amendments made on March 31st

        11       and restoring it to its original print number,

        12       397.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Amendments

        14       received.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        16       Senator Hannon, Madam President, please remove

        17       the sponsor's star from Calendar 378.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The star is

        19       removed.

        20                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Also, please

        21       commit Calendar Number 410 to the Committee on

        22       Finance.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Committed.











                                                             
4989

         1                      Senator DiCarlo.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Madam

         3       President, I wish to call up Calendar 213,

         4       Assembly Print 1983A.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         6       read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 213, by

         8       Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1287A, an act

         9       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation

        10       to the sale of raffle tickets.

        11                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I now move to

        12       reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill

        13       was substituted for Senator DeFrancisco's bill,

        14       Senate Print 1287A, on March 15.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        16       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        18       reconsideration.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        21       before the house.

        22                      Senator DiCarlo.

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I now move that











                                                             
4990

         1       Assembly Bill Number 1983A be recommitted to the

         2       Committee on Local Government and that Senate

         3       bill be restored to the order of Third Reading

         4       Calendar.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

         6       objection.

         7                      We have two substitutions.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 4,

        10       Senator Trunzo moves to discharge from the

        11       Committee on Civil Service and Pensions Assembly

        12       Print Number 6228 and substitute it for the

        13       identical Senate Bill, Calendar 487.

        14                      On page 4, Senator Hoblock moves

        15       to discharge from the Committee on Corporations,

        16       Authorities and Commissions, Assembly Bill

        17       Number 5034, and substitute it for the identical

        18       Senate bill number, Calendar 489.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Substitutions

        20       ordered.

        21                      Senator Volker, are you ready for

        22       the noncontroversial Calendar?

        23                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes, Madam











                                                             
4991

         1       President.  At this time, I would like to take

         2       up the noncontroversial calendar, please.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         4       read.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 11,

         6       Calendar Number 35, by Senator Levy, Senate

         7       Print 379, an act to amend the Vehicle and

         8       Traffic Law, in relation to the suspension and

         9       restoration of a driver's license following a

        10       second or subsequent DWI conviction.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first day of

        15       November.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        20       passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       65, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1475, an act

        23       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.











                                                             
4992

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Lay it aside,

         2       please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       77, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 328A, an act

         5       to amend the Public Authorities Law and the

         6       Railroad Law, in relation to operating a

         7       self-propelled rail passenger car.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Lay it aside,

        10       please.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       201, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2111, an

        13       act to amend the Executive Law and the Family

        14       Court Act, in relation to support of children in

        15       the Division for Youth.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        17       section, please.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 100th day.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        21       please.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.











                                                             
4993

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         2       passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       209, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2724A, an

         5       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law

         6       in relation to limiting access to commercial

         7       fisheries in marine waters.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         9       section, please.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        13       please.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       250, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 463, an

        20       act to amend the Social Services Law.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Lay it aside,

        23       please.











                                                             
4994

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       252, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2469, an

         3       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

         4       relation to the conduct of hearings to

         5       terminate, suspend, or diminish home relief

         6       benefits.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         8       section, please.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        12       please.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE PRESIDENT:  The results.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar Number 252 are Senators

        17       Espada and Mendez.  Ayes 47.  Nays 2.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       281, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3085, an

        22       act to repeal Subdivision 9 of Section 14-114 of

        23       the Election Law, relating to contribution











                                                             
4995

         1       limits.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         3       section, please.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

         7       please.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       323, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2484, an

        14       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,

        15       in relation to restrictions on the use and type

        16       of fish pots or traps.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        18       section, please.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        22       please.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
4996

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         3       passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       326, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 3644, an act

         6       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

         7       to the use of video conferencing equipment.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         9       section, please.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        13       please.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       333, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3665, an act

        20       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in

        21       relation to controlling plant and tree

        22       diseases.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last











                                                             
4997

         1       section, please.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         3       act shall take effect September 1.

         4                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

         5       please.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       335, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3667, an act

        12       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in

        13       relation to agricultural commodities eligible

        14       for marketing agreements and orders.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        16       section, please.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        20       please.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is











                                                             
4998

         1       passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       394, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 3285, an act

         4       to permit the reopening of the optional 20-year

         5       retirement plan to certain police officers in

         6       Sands Point, Nassau County.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  There is a home

         8       rule message at the desk.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        10       section, please.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll,

        14       please.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

        18       passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       398, by Senator Present, Senate Print 3531, an

        21       act to redistribute 1995 bond volume allocations

        22       made pursuant to Section 146 of the Federal Tax

        23       Reform Act of 1986.











                                                             
4999

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         2       section, please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         9       passed.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Volker, that completes the noncontroversial

        12       calendar.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  We would like to

        14       have the controversial calendar now.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the controversial calendar.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       65, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1475, an act

        19       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law and the

        20       Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to

        21       exempting farm vehicles from Motor Vehicle

        22       financial security.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the











                                                             
5000

         1       bill aside for the day.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       77, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 328A, an act

         4       to amend the Public Authorities Law and the

         5       Railroad Law.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         7                      SENATOR LEVY:  Star it for

         8       amendment.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Star the

        10       bill at the request of the sponsor.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       250, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 463, an

        13       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        14       relation to the disclosure of -- the disclosure

        15       of data obtained through the use of automated

        16       two-digit finger-imaging matching system.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Holland, an explanation has been asked for by

        19       Senator Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

        21       President.  This bill allows for the disclosure

        22       of information obtained from the finger-imaging

        23       program to be used in criminal investigations or











                                                             
5001

         1       prosecutions resulting from multiple enrollment

         2       in home relief.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

         6       President.  Would Senator Holland yield for a

         7       question?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Holland, do you yield for a question from

        10       Senator Paterson?

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       yields, Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Senator Holland.  There doesn't appear to

        16       be any evidence that fraud has been discovered

        17       through the finger-imaging system as it is right

        18       now, and so my question is, what is the purpose

        19       of this legislation, being that we haven't

        20       discovered any fraud through finger imaging?

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, I

        22       don't know how you can say that.  The report

        23       from the Department of Social Services said we











                                                             
5002

         1       saved all kinds of money and everybody is in

         2       favor of it, including your former Governor

         3       Cuomo, your former Commissioner of Social

         4       Services.  Thirty-eight counties are now

         5       involved in it, and the only counties that are

         6       not -- that do not want to be involved in it

         7       come the 1st of June, are some lower population

         8       counties.  Everybody believes, and rightly so,

         9       that this will save a lot of money.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        13       President.  I'm not denying that we've saved a

        14       lot of money.  What I'm saying is that there

        15       hasn't been any fraud that's been discovered

        16       through the finger-imaging system.  We may have

        17       saved money because individuals who may have

        18       committed fraud did not register.  Now, this

        19       bill doesn't relate to the finger-imaging issue

        20       itself.  It relates, actually, to the use of it

        21       in criminal investigations and in criminal

        22       cases.

        23                      So I would ask you, Senator











                                                             
5003

         1       Holland, if you would like to address that part

         2       of the question that I'm asking?

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Well,

         4       originally in finger-imaging, Senator, you know

         5       there were only two counties involved.  They

         6       were Rockland and Onondaga County.  The State

         7       Department of Social Services found that there

         8       were people eliminated from the program because

         9       of finger-imaging.

        10                      Now, as you say, this is a new

        11       thing.  We haven't prosecuted anybody.  Maybe we

        12       won't have to, Senator.  Maybe you're right.  I

        13       hope you're right.  I think you're wrong.  But

        14       if there are people who are stealing from the

        15       welfare and Medicaid system, they should be

        16       prosecuted.  That's all this bill says, if we

        17       catch people who are multiple dippers, that we

        18       can prosecute them; and if nobody's been found

        19       before, that's great.  If nobody's found in the

        20       future, that's even better, but I don't believe

        21       that's true.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        23       much, Senator Holland.











                                                             
5004

         1                      Mr. President, if Senator Holland

         2       would continue to yield.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Holland, do you continue to yield?

         5                      Senator continues to yield.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

         7       Holland, it was my understanding when we acted

         8       on the finger-imaging bill last year that we

         9       weren't going to use this information for

        10       anything other than having it in the welfare

        11       system itself.  Now we've taken it outside the

        12       system and we're allowing it to be used in

        13       criminal investigations and also in

        14       prosecutions.  Why the change?

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  You are

        16       correct, Senator.  Actually, in the budgets in

        17       '92 and '94, the budget said people would not

        18       be prosecuted.  I guess people have come to the

        19       realization that if people are stealing from

        20       you, they really should be prosecuted, and that

        21       was originated by a number of people, including

        22       the mayor of the city of New York; and all we're

        23       saying is, that if somebody is stealing from the











                                                             
5005

         1       Medicaid and welfare system and we catch them

         2       because of finger-imaging, then we can share

         3       that information with the district attorney and

         4       prosecute them if necessary.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       if Senator Holland will continue to yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Holland, do you continue to yield?

         9                      Senator continues to yield.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        11       Holland, let's leave prosecution out of it,

        12       because at the point that we're prosecuting

        13       individuals, they have already been presumably

        14       indicted.  There has already been an arrest.

        15       There has been an arraignment.  But much of the

        16       funding that prosecutors' offices use are

        17       actually for investigation.

        18                      And what we are doing through

        19       this bill -- and it was in the discussion of the

        20       finger-imaging bill in 1994 between yourself and

        21       Senator Waldon, where Senator Waldon warned

        22       everybody in this chamber that this would be a

        23       natural result of passing the finger-imaging











                                                             
5006

         1       bill in 1994, would be the use of this data for

         2       investigation purposes.  Now, when we are

         3       investigating an individual, we have a suspicion

         4       but we don't have proof and we haven't even made

         5       a charge.  Why would we be using the results of

         6       finger-imaging which was not obtained through

         7       any criminal source or any particular position

         8       that the person was seeking that caused them to

         9       be finger imaged but just the fact that they

        10       were a person in need and a person who

        11       unfortunately became a client of our social

        12       service system?  Why would we use that

        13       information to conduct an investigation where

        14       quite possibly the fact that we have the finger

        15       image is a presumption that could often become a

        16       catalyst for the investigation?

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, I just

        18       don't understand that kind of logic.  We're not

        19       doing any investigations.  People come in to

        20       Department of Social Services in one or more

        21       locations with one or more identification and

        22       they say they are one or more different people.

        23       We're not going out and investigating them.











                                                             
5007

         1       They're coming in.  They are not people who are

         2       in need; or if they are in need, maybe they

         3       should collect once instead of two or three

         4       times.

         5                      All we're saying is, people who

         6       are ripping off the system by saying they are

         7       you and then they are me or other people -- and

         8       there are many cases of this -- should be -

         9       that information should be available to the

        10       district attorney.  I can't understand why you

        11       would not think that that doesn't make logical

        12       sense.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        16       President.  I wonder why we don't finger image

        17       everybody, because we have a number of criminal

        18       investigations that we conduct of any citizen;

        19       and it would actually, I would concede, be more

        20       effective if we fingerprinted everybody in the

        21       whole country.  That way we would have a record

        22       that we could measure any finger images that we

        23       take against any citizen; and provided that











                                                             
5008

         1       we're able to match them up, that would really

         2       create a great opportunity for investigation in

         3       our criminal justice system, and I don't say

         4       that semantically or cynically.  I'm saying that

         5       that's actually true.

         6                      But we happen to be living in

         7       America.  Maybe, if we were living in Bosnia,

         8       this might be a good idea, but we're living in

         9       America; and, right now, we have a presumption

        10       of innocence that presides over our criminal

        11       justice system, and all these individuals have

        12       done is seek social services because,

        13       unfortunately, we have more people without food,

        14       without family, without homes, than at any time

        15       in this state since the Great Depression.  The

        16       fact that that exists does not, in my opinion,

        17       grant us the same right to fingerprint an

        18       individual as there would be in a case where

        19       they have a prior record where we keep their mug

        20       shots and their fingerprints forever, because

        21       the person put themself in that position; and in

        22       cases where people seek high government jobs or

        23       jobs that are a risk to security, they have











                                                             
5009

         1       undertaken going into an area where we need to

         2       know that information.  But these are basically

         3       citizens who have become clients of our social

         4       service system, as I said before.

         5                      And so what I'm saying is, if we

         6       now are going to prosecute, which means that we

         7       have evidence that there has been some fraud,

         8       then I guess reluctantly -- but I agree with

         9       Senator Holland, and I think that the aim of

        10       this bill is very meritorious.

        11                      But what I'm saying, Senator

        12       Holland, is I believe the bill has gone too

        13       far.  When you start giving out this kind of

        14       information that can perpetuate investigation, I

        15       really think you are in many ways impinging upon

        16       the concept of justice and the freedoms

        17       guaranteed to us in our Constitution.

        18                      I don't think this is what those

        19       people who framed that document were thinking

        20       about when they wrote it; and so what I'm saying

        21       is, the fact that we have information,

        22       information with our great technology today is

        23       something that we can achieve all the time, but











                                                             
5010

         1       I think that this is the kind of thing that is

         2       synonymous with "1984".  Maybe it was just

         3       eleven years delayed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       DeFrancisco.

         6                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Question, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Excuse

         9       me, Senator Holland.

        10                      Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

        11       rise?

        12                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would ask

        13       Senator Paterson to yield to a question.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson, do you yield to a question?

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       yields.

        20                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Senator

        21       Paterson, if an individual case worker gets a

        22       tip from a family member that someone is

        23       applying in several different locations for











                                                             
5011

         1       welfare assistance, should the prosecutor be

         2       able to use that tip and the testimony from the

         3       individual source in a criminal prosecution?

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, I think

         5       that that should be permissible.  I would never

         6       suppress that evidence; and as a matter of fact,

         7       I wouldn't suppress the fingerprints, Senator

         8       DeFrancisco.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       DeFrancisco, are you asking Senator Paterson to

        11       yield?

        12                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  So the

        13       question, then, Senator -- yes, I do.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson, do you yield to another question from

        16       Senator DeFrancisco?

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, I do.

        18       I'm sorry, Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       yields.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Senator

        22       Paterson, then, can you tell me if that same

        23       case worker has a machine that shows that this











                                                             
5012

         1       person has applied in a couple of different

         2       locations, what is the difference between that

         3       evidence and the evidence from the primary

         4       source?

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  The answer to

         6       that question, Senator DeFrancisco, is this.  In

         7       the former case, you have described conduct

         8       because the defendant, the person who we are now

         9       prosecuting, evidenced some conduct that was

        10       reported to our criminal justice system by a

        11       case worker.  In the latter case, you describe a

        12       situation certain, a fingerprint, something like

        13       an eyeball, something like a hand, a

        14       fingerprint, something that is an identification

        15       about the particular individual which does not

        16       change.  It's the same finger image that this

        17       person will have their whole life.  It's one you

        18       have and I have one.  They are all individual.

        19       Because it is a circumstance that is certain,

        20       these are the types of things that we don't like

        21       to impinge upon just for the sake of

        22       investigation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5013

         1       DeFrancisco.

         2                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Would you

         3       yield for one last question?

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Certainly, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       yields.

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Senator,

         9       isn't the conduct that is prosecuted the

        10       multiple applications for welfare, and the

        11       finger image or the tip from the firsthand

        12       source the evidence to prove that conduct?

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Absolutely,

        14       Mr. President.  But what we're talking about

        15       here is the nature of information that we are

        16       now going to seek.  In other words, if we went

        17       to the victim's house and found all of the

        18       applications and photocopied them and kept them

        19       in a vault, that would also be the evidence but

        20       that's not the conduct, and what we like to

        21       prosecute in this country is conduct, not

        22       suspicion.  So, in other words, there are a

        23       number of technical ways that we can receive











                                                             
5014

         1       information, but it's when a person actually

         2       manifests an action in an unpardonable offense

         3       that we then would want to prosecute them.  The

         4       fact that we can gather information on people

         5       would probably make us all liable for something

         6       at some point.

         7                      If we filmed every street in our

         8       city and our state, we would probably find a

         9       number of people who were jaywalking and we

        10       could hold that evidence and then at some point

        11       investigate them.  I'm not trying to be too

        12       remote from the issue, because it is an

        13       important and a serious issue that you are

        14       describing, Senator DeFrancisco, but what I'm

        15       saying to you is that it is actually the conduct

        16       that causes a person to be fingerprinted in the

        17       first place, the conduct either being a brush

        18       with the criminal justice system or that the

        19       person is taking himself into a high security

        20       position and, as a society, we need to know that

        21       information.

        22                      In this case, the person is

        23       seeking social services, the person is seeking











                                                             
5015

         1       welfare, and we have a number of people who by

         2       their unfortunate circumstances are eligible for

         3       that and we as a society have granted that.

         4       Now, if you want to finger image to keep track

         5       of who is in and who is out, all right, that's

         6       fine.  If you want to then use that evidence in

         7       a criminal prosecution, I don't know if I'm

         8       totally in favor of that but I can understand

         9       it.  What I don't understand is using the

        10       information as part of the investigation because

        11       the investigation should be conducted through,

        12       as I said before, some conduct that the

        13       individual is engaging in.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Holland.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I just wonder

        17       if the Senator will yield to a question?

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Certainly, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, you

        21       understand -- I don't understand exactly what

        22       you mean when you talk about investigation.

        23       This information will not be shared for any











                                                             
5016

         1       other police investigations, no rapes, no auto

         2       thefts, no anything like that, bounced checks,

         3       et cetera.  This will only be if an individual

         4       comes in -- and you've said this yourself.  If

         5       they need assistance, we want to give them

         6       assistance; but if they need assistance under

         7       three different names, then we don't want to

         8       give them assistance, and we want to charge

         9       them.  You understand that it won't be shared

        10       with police facilities?

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       through you to Senator Holland.  There are

        13       already systems in place that assist us in the

        14       investigation of fraud, and these systems are

        15       such that we can use right now.  Now, I do

        16       understand what you are saying, that we're not

        17       going to use this evidence for any other

        18       investigation, but I would like to ask you a

        19       hypothetical question.

        20                      Suppose next year we put a bill

        21       out here and say we will?  Suppose we say next

        22       year we are going to have a piece of legislation

        23       where the finger image that we received from an











                                                             
5017

         1       individual at a point where they seek social

         2       services can be used in any criminal investi

         3       gation?  Wouldn't Senator DeFrancisco be able to

         4       get up next year and ask me the same question

         5       that he just asked me, which is, what's wrong

         6       with the prosecutor using that as part of the

         7       evidence as much as using the information heard

         8       by a social worker?  Isn't that possible?

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  So -- thank

        11       you.  If the Senator will yield?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson, the floor is still yours.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.  So what I'm saying, Senator Holland,

        16       is, where are we drawing the line?  That's what

        17       I'm just trying to figure out, where are we

        18       drawing the line?  I don't understand why it is

        19       necessary when we have systems in place to

        20       investigate fraud where the finger-imaging has

        21       to come in, because the finger-imaging itself

        22       can not ignite the investigation because

        23       everybody who is going for welfare is going to











                                                             
5018

         1       be finger imaged.  But what becomes a call at

         2       issue is, how do we establish some kind of

         3       guidelines in the administration of our social

         4       services system?

         5                      And I feel, on the bill, Mr.

         6       President, that this is just going too far.  I

         7       understand what the intent is.  We understand,

         8       as Senator Holland reported to us, that it has

         9       saved us money because fewer people are

        10       registering.  Maybe that in itself is weeding

        11       out a lot of the problem, but the greater

        12       problem, I think, is to another system that we

        13       have.  It's just our system of justice in this

        14       country.  We don't do that as a general rule in

        15       the United States of America, and I don't think

        16       we should start by making this information

        17       available because, in my opinion, there is such

        18       a presumption about finger-imaging that exists,

        19       anyway, that just its mere existence can ignite

        20       investigations, and that's why I would not

        21       recommend the passage of this bill.

        22                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair











                                                             
5019

         1       recognizes Senator Stavisky.

         2                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  No.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Stavisky waives.

         5                      Chair recognizes Senator Espada.

         6       Senator Espada is out of the chamber.

         7                      Senator Marchi.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President, I

         9       just -- perhaps it's not directly on point, but

        10       I have introduced and you were a co-sponsor,

        11       incidentally, of a bill requiring finger-imaging

        12       for everyone in the State of New York.  I don't

        13       see it amenable to have -

        14                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marchi, excuse me for the interruption.  Let me

        17       recognize Senator Volker.

        18                      Senator Volker.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Senator, just

        20       one second.  Senator Espada would like to vote.

        21       Could we read the last section for just a second

        22       because he has to leave.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
5020

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Espada, how do you vote?

         9                      SENATOR ESPADA:  No.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Espada will be recorded in the negative.  The

        12       roll call is withdrawn.  We're back on debate.

        13                      Thank you, Senator Marchi, for

        14       the interruption.

        15                      Chair recognizes Senator Marchi.

        16                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.  No, I have introduced legislation

        18       that would provide for finger-imaging for

        19       everyone in the State of New York and,

        20       hopefully, that this process might take place

        21       across the nation.  It's an additional

        22       protection which each citizen would enjoy.

        23       People may be found bereft of documents and in











                                                             
5021

         1       great danger or perhaps the victims of foul

         2       play, yet we would be able to readily identify

         3       an individual in any and all circumstances where

         4       identity is a critical and important factor.

         5                      I am troubled a little bit, I

         6       have to say -- I have to confess -- that fraud

         7       in fields such as welfare, you are really faced

         8       with hard choices, and I believe the sponsor is

         9       correct in putting it where he is putting it,

        10       but we also have the factor that people living

        11       on the margins sometimes are driven to desperate

        12       solutions to their problems.

        13                      I remember campaigning once -

        14       this is many years ago -- for mayor, and going

        15       into an area where I found that orthopedic

        16       specialists were prescribing special shoes for

        17       children on welfare because they simply didn't

        18       have enough money to put shoes on the feet of

        19       their children.  These are pitiful situations,

        20       and we have to temper our ardor for stamping it

        21       out with an understanding of the desperation to

        22       actions which are not normally oppressive to the

        23       average citizen.











                                                             
5022

         1                      But we are facing a problem now

         2       of restricting largesse simply because of the

         3       abuses that have existed in the past; and if by

         4       gentle indirection -- and I don't think this

         5       violates that sanction -- we can do this, then

         6       it should be supported.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         8       recognizes Senator Dollinger.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President.  Will Senator Holland yield to just

        11       one question?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Holland, do you yield to one question from

        14       Senator Dollinger?

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       yields.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will be

        20       brief, Senator.  The report that we saw from the

        21       division of social services -- the Social

        22       Services Department that talked about this

        23       savings, do you know whether there has been any











                                                             
5023

         1       update of that done or any further analysis of

         2       the savings?

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Not to my

         4       knowledge, no, sir.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again,

         6       through you, Mr. President.  Do you know what

         7       the cost of the implementation of the program

         8       has been to date?

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  The cost of the

        10       implementation?

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And who's

        12       paid the cost?

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I really don't

        14       have a good figure for you.  No, but the system

        15       is designed and the study that Social Services

        16       did said that whatever the cost was we would

        17       recover that in the first year, so we more than

        18       recover the expenses in the first year.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That is what

        20       I'm trying to pinpoint, Mr. President.

        21                      On the bill.  I support the

        22       bill.  I will vote in favor of it.  My

        23       understanding is that the disclosure of these











                                                             
5024

         1       fingerprints are going to be solely for

         2       prosecutions related to the fraud, the

         3       underlying fraud itself.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        12       the results when tabulated.

        13                      Chair recognizes Senator Jones to

        14       explain her vote.

        15                      SENATOR JONES:  I just want to

        16       thank Senator Holland for bringing this bill to

        17       the floor.  A district attorney in my own county

        18       was one of the people strongly in support of

        19       this.  I'm not a lawyer, so I don't pretend to

        20       know the ins and outs of law, but to me it makes

        21       perfectly good sense.  If a person applies five

        22       times for welfare and knows they are defrauding

        23       the system, it seems pretty silly that we can't











                                                             
5025

         1       do something about it.

         2                      I want to thank you, Senator

         3       Holland.  I certainly support the bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Jones in the affirmative.  Announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 250 are Senators

         8       Espada, Galiber, Paterson, Smith.  Ayes 52.

         9       Nays 4.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Senator Volker, that completes

        13       the controversial calendar.

        14                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        15       May we return to reports of standing

        16       committees?  I believe there is a Finance

        17       Committee report at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Galiber, why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR GALIBER:  Mr. President.

        21       I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in

        22       the negative on Calendar 252, Senate Bill 2469.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without











                                                             
5026

         1       objection, Senator Galiber will be recorded in

         2       the negative on Calendar Number 252.

         3                      Senator Volker, there is a report

         4       of the Finance Committee here at the desk.  I

         5       will ask the Secretary to read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         7       from the Committee on Finance, offers up the

         8       following nominations:  Member of the Workers'

         9       Compensation Board, Robert R. Snashall of

        10       Cazenovia, New York.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        12       recognizes Senator Stafford on the nomination.

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      Mr. President, it seems as I get

        16       up here once a week and tell you that we had the

        17       two best nominees before us today that I have

        18       ever seen in the Senate in 30 years -- and I'm

        19       going to say it again, because today we have two

        20       fine nominees.

        21                      The first nominee we're

        22       considering is Mr. Snashall for the Workmen's

        23       Compensation Board.  He's had experience in the











                                                             
5027

         1       field.  He's represented defendants; he's

         2       represented plaintiffs and he understands.

         3                      And I might add that at the

         4       meeting today, the Finance meeting, as usual, as

         5       it should be, the members were not at all

         6       bashful in explaining to him that they

         7       understood and understand that he's taking over

         8       a very, very difficult position.

         9                      But we voted unanimously in Mr.

        10       Snashall's favor and we think he will do an

        11       excellent job as a member of the Workmen's

        12       Compensation Board and, I understand, chairman.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        14       recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the

        15       nomination.

        16                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I rise to

        17       second the nomination of Robert Snashall of the

        18       Central New York area, and I do it with great

        19       pleasure.  Mr. Snashall comes from one of the

        20       finest law firms in the Syracuse area, and some

        21       say the finest that we have in Syracuse.

        22                      The Workers' Compensation Board

        23       is a position -- a member of that board is a











                                                             
5028

         1       position that's so important in this state at

         2       this time in our history, and it's essential

         3       that we nominate people to that board, and

         4       especially the chairmanship of that board to

         5       someone who has some special expertise so that

         6       the reform that is sorely needed in this state

         7       is going to truthfully happen and that the

         8       reform is going to be meaningful because of

         9       firsthand knowledge and expertise in this area

        10       that Mr. Snashall has.

        11                      He's been practicing in Workers'

        12       Compensation court since 1979 with a law firm in

        13       Albany, and then with the Bond, Schoeneck and

        14       King office in Syracuse.  He's not only

        15       represented companies in their matters before

        16       the Workers' Compensation Board, but he's

        17       represented employees; and as we all know from

        18       our experience at our district offices that both

        19       employees and companies and businesses are

        20       calling us to complain about the way the system

        21       currently operates.

        22                      He's got the expertise, and he's

        23       from the right area of the state, and I'm very











                                                             
5029

         1       pleased to second his nomination for this very,

         2       very important position.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Hoffmann on the nomination.

         5                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I, too, am delighted to rise in

         8       support of this very excellent nominee who hails

         9       from the 48th Senate District, and I think, more

        10       importantly, he represents a dramatic departure

        11       from many of the confirmations that we've had in

        12       that not only does he live in upstate New York

        13       he also lives in the heart of a rural county,

        14       and he understands very well the problems, the

        15       particular hardships on people engaged in

        16       agriculture caused by lengthy delays in Workers'

        17       Compensation hearings which often go without

        18       resolution the first, the second, the third

        19       go-around and often require arduous and

        20       time-demanding trips from a distant part of the

        21       state into a more central location.

        22                      For instance, my constituents who

        23       live in places like Brookfield or Whitelaw must











                                                             
5030

         1       travel a good hour or hour and a half to a

         2       hearing scheduled in Syracuse at which they are

         3       all too often told the hearing officer is either

         4       not present, not prepared, someone else has not

         5       arrived who should be there.  So it's more than

         6       an inconvenience for people in upstate and rural

         7       areas when there are delays in Workers'

         8       Compensation hearings.  It is a drain in their

         9       own income, and it affects, ultimately, the

        10       entire state's economy when this system does not

        11       run well.

        12                      Mr. Snashall made it very clear

        13       today in the Finance Committee under rigorous

        14       questioning by those members present that he

        15       recognizes it does not run well.  He recognizes

        16       that it must be changed in order to meet the

        17       needs of this state.  His is going to be a very,

        18       very burdensome task.

        19                      I wish him well following his

        20       anticipated confirmation today and pledge my

        21       support and that of the people of my district to

        22       do whatever is possible to help make this a

        23       meaningful transition as we go from an archaic,











                                                             
5031

         1       obsolete, unresponsive Workers' Compensation

         2       system into the development of one that does, in

         3       fact, meet the needs of the working people of

         4       this state.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       question is on the nomination of Robert R.

         7       Snashall of Cazenovia to become a member of the

         8       Workmen's Compensation Board.

         9                      All those in favor, signify by

        10       saying aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The nominee is confirmed.

        15                      We're happy to be joined by Mr.

        16       Snashall, who is in the gallery here.

        17                      Congratulations, Mr. Snashall.

        18                      (Applause.)

        19                      Secretary will continue to read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Commissioner of

        21       Criminal Justice Services, Paul Lewis Shechtman

        22       of New York City.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair











                                                             
5032

         1       recognizes Senator Stafford.

         2                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.  I do not hesitate, and I say it

         4       again, we have two of the finest nominees today

         5       that will ever be here.  Now, Mr. Shechtman, I

         6       just have to share with you that when you look

         7       at his biography, as was pointed out in the

         8       Finance Committee, you see what a fine

         9       individual he is and how he has excelled from

        10       being a Rhodes scholar, graduating from

        11       Swarthmore and then Harvard Law School, master's

        12       degree from Oxford University, and it goes on

        13       and on and on and on.

        14                      He was a clerk to Judge Warren E.

        15       Burger, Chief Justice of the United States

        16       Supreme Court, and clerk to other justices; has

        17       been the chief, Criminal Division, for the

        18       United States Attorney's Office in the Southern

        19       District of New York, and he's been counsel to

        20       the District Attorney's Office for New York

        21       County, all prestigious appointments, and he's

        22       done so well.  He also is a professor of law at

        23       Columbia University School of Law.  Some of us











                                                             
5033

         1       consider that a good law school.  I assure you

         2       it is.  He also has been a professor of law at

         3       the University of Pennsylvania.

         4                      This position of Commissioner of

         5       Criminal Justice Services is the type of

         6       position, I feel, where we need someone of Paul

         7       Shechtman's ability, and he has proven -- he has

         8       proven his ability.

         9                      This appointment and the

        10       appointments today are indeed a credit to

        11       Governor Pataki and all of his people.  I would

        12       suggest that we could have no finer nominee

        13       before us to confirm than Paul Lewis Shechtman,

        14       and his biography and his record of

        15       accomplishment prove that.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        17       recognizes Senator Nozzolio.

        18                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      Mr. President, my colleagues:  As

        21       usual, Senator Stafford has well cornered the

        22       market on this issue, but this is more than an

        23       issue.  This is a confirmation of a gentleman











                                                             
5034

         1       who will have tremendous responsibilities in

         2       managing criminal justice services and trying to

         3       apportion an agenda, move an agenda that we

         4       believe extremely important.

         5                      Mr. Chairman, at the Crime and

         6       Corrections Committee, I had the privilege of

         7       meeting Mr. Shechtman and discussing with him

         8       his philosophy, his background, his experience.

         9       As Senator Stafford indicated, we have not seen

        10       and I doubt we will ever see a resume as

        11       detailed, as experienced in accomplishment, so

        12       varied and so great, as the resume we have

        13       before us of Mr. Shechtman.

        14                      But there is a point that's not

        15       on his resume that I think certainly tells me a

        16       lot about the individual and a lot about his

        17       experience level, interest level in criminal

        18       justice, in that he began his professional

        19       career, although sandwiched in between great

        20       educational accomplishment and great experience

        21       on the United States Supreme Court as a clerk,

        22       at appellate courts, at some of the finest

        23       schools in the country if not the world, he took











                                                             
5035

         1       much of his talent and put it into teaching in a

         2       correctional facility.  I think that says a

         3       great deal about the person.  It says a great

         4       deal about his background, as accomplished as it

         5       is.  He also has his feet on the ground in terms

         6       of individual work experience in the very heart

         7       of the system that he will now have the

         8       responsibility of managing.

         9                      I also would like to say

        10       something not on his resume but on something

        11       that speaks a great deal for his interest in

        12       this position and his interest in the work that

        13       lies ahead.  He has been working already,

        14       although not confirmed certainly on the job, in

        15       touring correctional facilities last week.  It

        16       is my understanding that he was with

        17       Commissioner Coombe at Attica, learning

        18       firsthand some of the nuances of our

        19       correctional system, and he is to be

        20       congratulated for taking that interest and such

        21       a dynamic approach, hands-on approach very early

        22       on in his new work.

        23                      It is my belief, Mr. President,











                                                             
5036

         1       that we have a tremendous candidate in Mr.

         2       Shechtman for confirmation and one that I have a

         3       great deal of confidence in will do a great job,

         4       approaching his job not only with great

         5       intelligence and great experience but with great

         6       sincerity and great interest.

         7                      Mr. President, I move the

         8       confirmation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        10       recognizes Senator Abate on the confirmation.

        11                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  I

        12       enthusiastically rise to support Paul

        13       Shechtman.  I have had the honor and privilege

        14       of working with Paul for a number of years, and

        15       he enjoys an outstanding reputation not just in

        16       New York City among law enforcement but also

        17       among probation departments as well as

        18       correction departments, Liberals and

        19       Conservatives, mainstream individuals, in the

        20       criminal justice system; and he's earned that

        21       respect because he's not someone that just

        22       resorts to rhetoric around public safety.  He's

        23       extremely thoughtful.











                                                             
5037

         1                      He's a man of extremely high

         2       intellect, enormous knowledge of the criminal

         3       justice system, enormous knowledge of the law, a

         4       man of high integrity; and I found in my work

         5       with him that he is accessible.  If you call

         6       him, he returns your calls.  He researches

         7       issues.  Even though on first blush he may not

         8       agree with the position or he may not think it

         9       advisable, he really looks at both sides of the

        10       issue and always, I believe, reaches a rational

        11       and reasoned conclusion.

        12                      He's a great lawyer, a great

        13       administrator.  I think he will be an asset to

        14       New York State, and I look very much forward to

        15       working with him.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       question is on the nomination of Paul Lewis -

        18                      Excuse me.  Senator Volker.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Let me just say

        20       that I, too, want to second the nomination of

        21       Paul, who, although I met him some years ago, I

        22       really -- I was not really acquainted with him

        23       until recently, and he will become one of a long











                                                             
5038

         1       line, I think, of excellent people who have been

         2       head of DCJS -- Richard Girgenti, and before him

         3       Jack Poklemba and Larry Kurlander.

         4                      He brings a kind of unique view,

         5       in that, in addition to the normal criminal

         6       justice background, he has an economics

         7       background, and I said to him when we first met

         8       that it seems to me that in this day and age

         9       maybe an economics background, in addition to

        10       criminal justice, is not a bad thing to have.

        11       But he has an excellent understanding, I think,

        12       of all the areas involved in criminal justice.

        13                      These are not going to be easy

        14       times to be head of the Division of Criminal

        15       Justice Services; and I think, as everybody

        16       knows, the Governor took great pains to make a

        17       determination on who would run this agency which

        18       is, I believe, certainly one of the most

        19       important in government today, and there are a

        20       lot of dedicated people who are part of DCJS

        21       that he will be -- he will be overseeing.

        22                      As chairman of the Codes

        23       Committee, myself, and my staff and all the











                                                             
5039

         1       members of the committee have always worked

         2       closely with the Department of Criminal Justice

         3       Services, and I have no doubt that we will

         4       continue to work as close if not closer with

         5       Paul.  I wish him the very best of luck.  It is

         6       a great nomination.

         7                      Good luck to you for the future

         8       and Godspeed.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       question is on the nomination of Paul Lewis

        11       Shechtman of New York City to become

        12       Commissioner of Criminal Justice Services.

        13                      All those in favor, signify by

        14       saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed, nay.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      The nominee is confirmed.

        19                      We are very pleased to be joined

        20       by Mr. Shechtman and his wife, Bonnie, who are

        21       seated in the gallery.

        22                      Commissioner, congratulations.

        23       Good luck.











                                                             
5040

         1                      (Applause.)

         2                      Senator Volker.

         3                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Any housekeeping

         4       before we adjourn?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

         6       there is nothing at the desk.

         7                      Excuse me.  Senator Paterson, why

         8       do you rise?

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       with unanimous consent, I would like to be

        11       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 252.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       objection, Senator Paterson will be recorded in

        14       the negative on Calendar Number 252.

        15                      Senator Smith.

        16                      SENATOR SMITH:  Mr. President, I

        17       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        18       negative on Calendar Number 252.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        20       objection, Senator Smith will be recorded in the

        21       negative on Calendar Number 252.

        22                      Senator Volker.

        23                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,











                                                             
5041

         1       there being no further business, I move that we

         2       adjourn until Wednesday, April 26th, 1995, at

         3       10:00 a.m.  That's 10:00 a.m.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         5       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

         6       tomorrow, April 26th, at 10:00.  10:00 a.m.

         7                      (Whereupon, at 4:00 p.m., the

         8       Senate adjourned.)

         9

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14