Regular Session - May 16, 1995

                                                                 
5805

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         May 16, 1995

        10                           11:02 a.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
5806

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Members please find

         4       their chairs, the staff their places.  Ask

         5       everybody in the chamber to rise with me and

         6       repeat the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (The assemblage repeated the

         8       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                      We're very pleased once again to

        10       be joined by a constituent of Senator Markowitz,

        11       Bishop Muriel Grant of the Mt. Olivet Disciple

        12       ship of Brooklyn, New York.

        13                      Bishop Grant.

        14                      BISHOP MURIEL GRANT:  Let us

        15       pray.  O God, I thank You for Your presence

        16       here.  Eternal God, through Whose mighty power

        17       our fathers of this nation won their liberties

        18       of old, I beseech Thee humbly to hear my prayer

        19       this day.  May the Almighty God Whose kingdom is

        20       everlasting and power infinite, have mercy on

        21       our land and so rule the hearts of the servants

        22        -- Thy servants, the President of these United

        23       States and all others in authority, for the











                                                             
5807

         1       advancement of this great nation.

         2                      We can surely come to You on the

         3       strength of the words of another Abraham in our

         4       time in the foundation of the proclamation when

         5       he said, "The way is plain, peaceful, generous,

         6       just, the way which if followed, the world will

         7       forever applaud and God must forever bless."

         8                      Bless us, Lord, our Governor,

         9       whose glory is in all the world.  We commend

        10       this nation to Thy merciful care, that being

        11       guided by Thy providence, we may dwell secure in

        12       peace.  I beseech these souls, especially for

        13       the Senate, Republicans and Democrats alike.

        14       Heal all their infirmities, Lord.  Bless this,

        15       their counseling session.  I pray that Thou

        16       wouldst be pleased to direct and prosper all

        17       their consultations for the advancement of Thy

        18       glory, for the good of Thy church, the safety,

        19       honor and welfare of Thy people, that all things

        20       may be ordered and settled by the endeavor of

        21       these upon the best and surest foundation, that

        22       peace and happiness, truth and justice, religion

        23       and faith may be established amongst us for all











                                                             
5808

         1       generations.  This and all other necessaries for

         2       them, for us, the whole church, I humbly beg in

         3       the name and meditation of Jesus Christ, my

         4       Savior, my Lord.  Amen.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Reading

         6       of the Journal.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

         8       Monday, May 15th.  The Senate met pursuant to

         9       adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair.  The

        10       prayer by the Reverend Peter Young of Bolton

        11       Landing.  The Journal of Sunday, May 14th, was

        12       read and approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        14       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

        15       read.

        16                      Presentation of petitions.

        17                      Messages from the Assembly.

        18                      Messages from the Governor.

        19                      Reports of standing committees.

        20                      Reports of select committees.

        21                      Communications and reports from

        22       state officers.

        23                      Motions and resolutions.











                                                             
5809

         1                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         3       recognizes Senator Cook.

         4                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, on

         5       behalf of Senator Hannon, please place sponsor's

         6       stars on Calendar Numbers 378 and 503.  I hope

         7       those aren't bills he's already passed.

         8                      Mr. President -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        10       Number 378 and 503 will be starred at the

        11       request of the sponsor.

        12                      Senator Cook.

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

        14       wish to call up Senator Lack's bill, Number

        15       2833, recalled from the Assembly, which is now

        16       at the desk.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the title.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Lack,

        20       Senate Print 2833, an act to amend Chapter 689

        21       of the Laws of 1993, amending the Criminal

        22       Procedure Law.

        23                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.











                                                             
5810

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Cook.

         3                      SENATOR COOK:  I now move to

         4       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

         5       passed.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       motion is to reconsider the vote by which the

         8       bill passed the house.  The Secretary will call

         9       the roll on reconsideration.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        11       reconsideration.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Cook.

        15                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

        16       offer the following amendments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       amendments are received and adopted.

        19                      Senator Cook.

        20                      SENATOR COOK:  Also, Mr.

        21       President, on page 58, I offer the following

        22       amendments to Senator Skelos' bill, Calendar

        23       Number 880, Senate Print 2361, and ask that said











                                                             
5811

         1       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

         2       Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 880 are received

         5       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         6       the Third Reading Calendar.

         7                      Senator Bruno, we have a

         8       substitution at the desk.  Would you like to

         9       take that up at this time?

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Please take that

        11       up at this time, Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the substitution.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy

        15       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

        16       Assembly Bill Number 5182-A and substitute it

        17       for the identical Calendar Number 806.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       substitution is ordered.

        20                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        21       Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, I

        23       would like to call an immediate meeting of Rules











                                                             
5812

         1       in Room 332.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         3       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

         4       Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

         5       That's Room 332.  Immediate meeting of the Rules

         6       Committee in Room 332.

         7                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         8       Trunzo.

         9                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

        10       please put a sponsor's star on Calendar Number

        11       600.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        13       Number 600 will be starred at the request of the

        14       sponsor.

        15                      Senator Saland.

        16                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      Mr. President, I would like to

        19       place sponsor's stars on the following bills:

        20       Calendars 90... I'm sorry, 944, 945, 954, 955,

        21       956, 958 and 959.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        23       Number 944, 945, 954, 955, 956, 958 and 959 will











                                                             
5813

         1       be starred at the request of the sponsor.

         2                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         3       Bruno -- or Senator Hannon.

         4                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President,

         5       would you please place a sponsor's star on

         6       Calendar Number 378?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Hannon, a sponsor's star was already placed on

         9       Calendar Number 378 by Senator Cook on your

        10       behalf.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        13       recognizes Senator Bruno.  That brings us to the

        14       calendar, I believe, Senator Bruno.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        16       can we at this time adopt the Resolution

        17       Calendar?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Certainly

        19       can.  The motion is to adopt the Resolution

        20       Calendar.  All those in favor signify by saying

        21       aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye".)

        23                      Opposed, nay.











                                                             
5814

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      The Resolution Calendar is

         3       adopted.

         4                      Senator Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         6       can we now take up the non-controversial

         7       calendar.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the non-controversial

        10       calendar.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       234, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1638, an

        13       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        14       possessing an obscene sexual performance by a

        15       child.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       310, Assembly Rules Committee, Assembly Print

        21       4105, an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation

        22       to extending the sales and use taxes by the city

        23       of White Plains.











                                                             
5815

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Sec... the Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         9       the results when tabulated.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43, nays 2,

        11       Senator Dollinger and Jones recorded in the

        12       negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       453, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 359, an act

        17       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        18       relation to criminal history checks on school

        19       bus attendants.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5816

         1       461, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4118, an act

         2       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

         3       to requiring the Metropolitan Transportation

         4       Authority to make public an annual summary of

         5       the attendance records of its members.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       562, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3652, an

        18       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        19       relation to the operation of games of chance by

        20       authorized games of chance lessors.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This











                                                             
5817

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         6       the results when tabulated.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         9       bill aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       601, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2963, an

        12       act to amend the Election Law, in relation to

        13       the hours for voting at primary elections within

        14       the county of Orange or Ulster.

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside for

        16       the day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside for the day at the request of the

        19       sponsor.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       602, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly

        22       Print 4959, an act to amend the Election Law, in

        23       relation to merging election districts at school











                                                             
5818

         1       board and general elections.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect on the 1st day of August.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       603, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3343, an

        14       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        15       relation to the exemption of certain private

        16       dwellings and improvements within cities having

        17       a population of one million or more.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will -- lay the bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       617, Member of the Assembly Vitaliano, an act to

        22       amend the Retirement and Social Security Law, in

        23       relation to the extension of the temporary











                                                             
5819

         1       benefits and supplementation of programs.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       618, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2868, an

        14       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        15       Law, in relation to the membership of policemen

        16       and firemen.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       this act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
5820

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       625, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3367, an

         6       act to repeal Section 630 of the Business

         7       Corporation Law, relating to the liability of

         8       shareholders.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        11       bill aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       627, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3802, an

        14       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        15       relation to powers and duties of the Battery

        16       Park City Authority.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
5821

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       635, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 562, an act

         6       to amend the Highway Law, in relation to the

         7       definition of the Southern Tier Expressway.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        11       act shall take effect on the 1st day of July.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       636, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1476, an act

        20       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the

        21       Education Law, in relation to making technical

        22       corrections relating to phasing out the use of

        23       school buses.











                                                             
5822

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44, nays 1,

         9       Senator Seward recorded in the negative.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       637, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1695-A, an

        14       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

        15       to increasing penalties for violating a motor

        16       carrier certificate.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter, why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  May I inquire,

        21       Calendar Number 625, was that laid aside?

        22       Okay.  Thank you.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  625?











                                                             
5823

         1       Yes, Senator Marchi's bill, Calendar Number 625

         2       was laid aside, Senator Leichter.

         3                      The Secretary will read the last

         4       section on Calendar Number 637.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

         7       November.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       645, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3432-A, an

        16       act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation

        17       to increasing the statutory ceiling for non

        18       major changes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
5824

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      Senator DiCarlo, for those

         7       members, we accidentally read Calendar Number

         8       645.  That's what the vote was.  Are there any

         9       negatives on Calendar Number 645?

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      If not, the bill is passed.

        12                      The Secretary will return to

        13       Calendar Number 639 and call that.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       639, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 2429, an

        16       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        17       relation to regulation of delivery bicycles.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5825

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         3       the results when tabulated.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44, nays 1,

         5       Senator DiCarlo recorded in the negative.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       648, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 36, an act

        10       to amend the Tax Law, in relation to exempting

        11       from sales and use tax certain transactions.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        13       local fiscal impact note at the desk.  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 1st day of the

        17       quarterly sales tax period.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
5826

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       649, by Member of the Assembly Butler, Assembly

         3       Print 1248, an act to amend the Executive Law,

         4       in relation to requiring certain notices to be

         5       printed on reports and publications.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       650, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1446, an

        18       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        19       the designation of August 7th as Family Day, a

        20       day of commemoration.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5827

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       652, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2336, an

        10       act to amend the Executive Law and the Education

        11       Law, in relation to providing security

        12       information to prospective students.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       655, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 2870, an act

        18       to amend the Executive Law, in relation to the

        19       creation of the Long Island Sound Coastal

        20       Advisory Commission.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This











                                                             
5828

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       671, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 408, an act

        10       to amend the Correction Law and the County Law,

        11       in relation to maintenance of prisoners in

        12       county jail facilities.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       672, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 579, an

        20       act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to

        21       eligible inmates for temporary release programs.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
5829

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       674, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1740, an

        11       act to amend the Executive Law and the Penal

        12       Law, in relation to payment of a fee by persons

        13       sentenced to probation.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       678, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2355, an

        19       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        20       requiring that State University graduation

        21       ceremonies include the Pledge of Allegiance and

        22       National Anthem.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.











                                                             
5830

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       688, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3554, an

         5       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         6       Law, in relation to transfer of precious service

         7       credit.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  In relation to

        19       Calendar Number 688, ayes 49, nays 1, Senator

        20       Leichter recorded in the negative.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5831

         1       694, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4165, an act

         2       authorizing the town of New Paltz in Ulster

         3       County to make provisions of Section 384-d of

         4       the Retirement and Social Security Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         6       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       703, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4112-A, an

        18       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        19       investments.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5832

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       704, by Member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly

         9       Print 6245, an act to amend Chapter 625 of the

        10       Laws of 1992, amending the Insurance Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       708, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3073, the

        23       act to amend the State Administrative Procedure











                                                             
5833

         1       Act, in relation to requiring that agencies

         2       conduct and include a formal cost/benefit

         3       analysis in each regulatory impact statement.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 1st day of October.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      Senator Libous, that completes

        15       the non-controversial calendar.  What's your

        16       pleasure?

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        18       there will be an immediate meeting of Finance in

        19       Room 332, please, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the

        21       benefit of the members, there will be an immed

        22       iate meeting of the Senate Finance Committee in

        23       the Majority Conference Room, that's Room 332.











                                                             
5834

         1       Immediate meeting of the Finance Committee.

         2                      Senator Montgomery, why do you

         3       rise?

         4                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

         5       President, I would like unanimous consent to be

         6       recorded in the negative on Calendar 672.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

         9       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        10       Calendar Number 672.

        11                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        13       recognizes Senator Libous.

        14                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President,

        15       we're ready to do the controversial calendar,

        16       please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will call the controversial calendar.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

        20       Calendar Number 234, by Senator Johnson, Senate

        21       Print 1638, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

        22       relation to possessing an obscene sexual

        23       performance by a child.











                                                             
5835

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 234

         4       has been asked for by the Acting Minority

         5       Leader, Senator Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         7       this bill makes it illegal to possess an obscene

         8       sexual performance by a child, and a sexual

         9       performance by a child makes the penalty a -

        10       it's a -

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Johnson, Senator Johnson, excuse me just a

        13       minute.  Can we have some order in the house,

        14       please?  There's an awful lot of conversation

        15       going on.  It's extremely difficult for members

        16       to hear what another member is saying.  Staff,

        17       please take your chairs.  Members, please take

        18       their seats.

        19                      Thank you, Senator Johnson, for

        20       the interruption.  I apologize.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        22       this bill makes possession of child pornography

        23       a violation, makes it a Class E felony.  We're











                                                             
5836

         1       joining 30 other states that have similar laws,

         2       the crackdown on child pornography.

         3                      We were presented with some sort

         4       of an amendment from the other side.  I guess

         5       they want to talk about it further, but

         6       essentially we passed this bill several years

         7       running, and it's passed overwhelmingly.

         8                      That's about all I can say, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        11       recognizes Senator Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        13       I have an amendment that is at the desk.  It is

        14       served and, if you have received it, I would be

        15       willing to waive its reading and just speak on

        16       it for a couple of moments.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary does indicate, Senator Paterson, that

        19       there is your amendment at the desk.  The

        20       reading of it is waived and you are afforded at

        21       this time the opportunity to explain the

        22       amendment.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,











                                                             
5837

         1       all the amendment would do is to require the

         2       knowledge or the reason to have knowledge of the

         3       individual who would possess the sexual

         4       performance that the subject of the performance

         5       is 18 years of age or older.

         6                      What we're trying to avoid is

         7       individuals who would have some kind of a sexual

         8       performance that they would be reasonably

         9       assured would be performed by adults, and then

        10       to later find out that actually a person who was

        11       under age was involved.

        12                      Recently, there was a situation

        13       where a pornographic film star, whose name is

        14       Tracy Lords -- all this information, Mr.

        15       President, was upon information and belief, and

        16       this individual announced that she had

        17       celebrated her 18th birthday, but apparently she

        18       had been appearing in these movies for years but

        19       no one knew that she was not 18, and so I would

        20       not like for a citizen of our state to be put in

        21       the position where it would seem that the

        22       individual who is the subject of the sexual

        23       performance is of age and, therefore, it is a











                                                             
5838

         1       legal transaction and it is a legal participa

         2       tion, and then to find later on that the person

         3       is under age.  That is the sum and the substance

         4       of the amendment.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Saland on the amendment.

         7                      SENATOR SALAND:  On the

         8       amendment, Mr. President.

         9                      Mr. President, the existing law

        10       in Article 263 already provides for an affirma

        11       tive defense, an affirmative defense which, I

        12       believe, is set forth in Section 263.20, and

        13       that affirmative defense states that it shall be

        14       such an affirmative defense that defendant in

        15       good faith reasonably believed the person

        16       appearing in the performance was 16 years of age

        17       or over.

        18                      Affirmative defense, under our

        19       Penal Code or civil procedure -- Criminal

        20       Procedure requires that to be established by a

        21       mere preponderance of the evidence.  To burden

        22       the district attorney in these types of prosecu

        23       tions to prove beyond a reasonable doubt is not











                                                             
5839

         1       merely a shift in the burden of proof as would

         2       be proposed by the Acting Minority Leader, but

         3       certainly would be an onerous burden and make

         4       prosecution pretty darn near impossible.

         5                      I would certainly oppose the

         6       amendment and urge that my colleagues similarly

         7       oppose it.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        11       truth is an affirmative defense, and the reason

        12       that truth becomes affirmative is because we

        13       don't know what the truth is when we indict

        14       people, and so I think we are confusing the

        15       nature of the description of what is an

        16       affirmative defense.

        17                      There are times when there are

        18       certain actions that the defense may take that,

        19       as Senator Saland said, require a preponderance

        20       of the evidence and have to be overlaid by a

        21       proof beyond reasonable doubt, but what I'm

        22       saying is by the time the truth comes up in this

        23       particular case, you have an individual who's











                                                             
5840

         1       already been indicted; they have already been

         2       arraigned; they have already been put on trial;

         3       they have already in many respects been

         4       humiliated in our criminal justice system.

         5                      What we have a chance to do today

         6        -- and we are lawmakers and we would want to

         7       make the best possible laws.  We don't want to

         8       leave a burden on an innocent party where we can

         9       correct it in law.  What we would like to do

        10       today in this amendment is to establish that the

        11       individual knew; in other words, there are some

        12       very clear cases of child pornography.  It is

        13       really a loathesome and despicable kind of

        14       action that is pervading our society in many

        15       ways, and I would not like to diminish it in any

        16       respect by creating any kind of confusion with

        17       the regular situation that adults engage in

        18       watching these sexual performances and which we

        19       have not made illegal.

        20                      Now, if we want to make them

        21       illegal or we don't like them, that's our

        22       choice, but while we have a law as it stands

        23       today, I don't think that the law should be











                                                             
5841

         1       ambiguous.  This would make the law clear.  We

         2       don't need to establish an affirmative defense

         3       where we have a better way, and I'm suggesting

         4       that if we incorporate this amendment into

         5       Senator Johnson's bill -- it's a good bill.  I'm

         6       going to vote for it anyway, but I would like

         7       for it to have served our society in the best

         8       way that it can.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Johnson.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        12       I certainly don't want to debate this proposed

        13       amendment, but suffice it to say that this

        14       amendment would make the bill unenforceable and

        15       no one would be convicted.  In fact, this bill

        16       makes it a misdemeanor, which means it will have

        17       no practical impact on possession of child

        18       pornography.  This can be not be permitted.

        19                      I would like to say that 75

        20       percent of the Senators here voted for this bill

        21       the last time, 83 sponsors in the other house,

        22       more than enough to pass the bill in the other

        23       house if it got on the floor.  The people want











                                                             
5842

         1       and need this bill and this amendment should be

         2       rejected, and I move that be done.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       question is on the amendment.  All those who are

         5       in favor of the amendment signify by saying

         6       aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Those opposed, nay.

         9                      (Response of "Nay".)

        10                      The amendment fails.

        11                      The Secretary will read the last

        12       section on the bill.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        15       November.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        20       the results when tabulated.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        22       the negative are Senators Smith and Waldon.

        23       Ayes 56, nays 2.











                                                             
5843

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      The Secretary will continue to

         4       call the controversial calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       453, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 359, an act

         7       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         8       relation to criminal history checks on school

         9       bus attendants.

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside

        11       temporarily.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside temporarily.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       562, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3652, an

        16       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        17       relation to the operation of games of chance by

        18       authorized games of chance lessors.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       Senator Gold laid this bill aside, and I think

        23       he's in the Rules Committee meeting.  Can we











                                                             
5844

         1       hold it for just a few minutes?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Acting Majority Leader indicates yes.  The bill

         4       will be laid aside temporarily.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       603, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3343, an

         7       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

         8       relation to the exemption of certain private

         9       dwellings and improvements within cities having

        10       a population of less than one million from local

        11       taxation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        15       Senator Leichter laid this bill aside.  I

        16       believe he's also at the Rules Committee, so I

        17       figure under equal protection, we would give him

        18       a few moments as well.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Never

        20       assume anything, Senator Paterson, but the

        21       Acting Majority Leader submits to your request.

        22       The bill will be laid aside temporarily.

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside











                                                             
5845

         1       temporarily.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       625, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3367, an

         4       act to amend the real -- an act to repeal

         5       Section 630 of the Business Corporation Law,

         6       relating to the liability of shareholders for

         7       wages due to laborers.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       even prior to the explanation on the substance

        13       of the bill, I just have a question about the

        14       nature of the bill, because if this is S.4...

        15       S.3367, we, earlier in the session in March,

        16       passed Calendar 384 which I thought was the same

        17       bill -- I'm sorry -- Calendar Number 174, which

        18       I believe was the same bill, and I just wanted

        19       to try to understand why that's the case.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Marchi, an explanation of the bill was asked for

        22       when the non-controversial calendar was read, by

        23       Senator Dollinger.  Senator Paterson certainly











                                                             
5846

         1       has raised a question which you would perhaps

         2       like to address at this time.  Maybe you would

         3       like to address both of those at one time.

         4                      So, Senator Marchi, I'll

         5       recognize you at this point for an explanation

         6       and in response to the question posed by Senator

         7       Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, in this

         9       bill, Mr. President, there are about 680 -- the

        10       number of corporations that are put together

        11       over the year, we have about 47 or 48 in the

        12       state of New York.  The provision that we have,

        13       of course, takes the first ten shareholders and

        14       the highest ten shareholders and makes them -

        15       can make them personally liable under -- for

        16       wages due to laborers, so it's not a bad -- it's

        17       not a bad provision.

        18                      The only problem is that the vast

        19       majority, I think out of 8,000 incorporations,

        20       they all go out of state and over half of them

        21       are in the state of Delaware; they're in other

        22       jurisdictions.  The result is there are no

        23       corporations being incorporated in the state of











                                                             
5847

         1       New York, and this bill -- and the law that -

         2       the law that prevails in the incorporated -

         3       incorporations in other states does not present

         4        -- does not -- does not coincide with the

         5       thrust of this law.

         6                      On the other hand, there is no

         7       relief.  It just -- the net effect of it is that

         8       all but a few incorporations in the state of New

         9       York take place in other jurisdictions where

        10       this exculpation does not take place.  I believe

        11       that in the long run that being -- having a more

        12       intimate role in the formulation of corporations

        13       would probably inure to the benefit even to

        14       those who are sought to be served by a point of

        15       view that I'm sure you reflect and I have to say

        16       I share myself, but under the present arrange

        17       ment, we are -- we are excluded completely from

        18        -- from this process, and all the incorpora

        19       tions are not taking place in the state of New

        20       York, they're going elsewhere, and they should

        21       be taking place here.

        22                      I feel that it would augur well

        23       and perhaps lead to some developments that would











                                                             
5848

         1       meet both of our objectives.  I sense what

         2       you're saying, and I can't really disagree with

         3       it on the merits, but on the other hand, I don't

         4       think that it's a good arrangement at the

         5       present time.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Actually,

         9       Senator -- Mr. President, to Senator Marchi, I

        10       just wanted to understand.  I guess what I

        11       conclude from that is that Calendar 174 was more

        12       of an omnibus bill that repeals several sections

        13       of the law, and the bill that is before us right

        14       now, Calendar 625, is -- deals with this one

        15       section of the law, and so I would assume that

        16       whichever one would prevail first, should we

        17       pass it into law, would then be the enacted

        18       law.  That's all I was trying to clear up.

        19                      By the way, Senator Marchi, there

        20       are four shopping days 'til my birthday, I'd

        21       like you to know that.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Dollinger.











                                                             
5849

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I rise just to speak against this

         3       bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Dollinger, on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This bill, as

         7       I understand it, Senator Marchi, says that if

         8       you're a small corporation, it doesn't apply to

         9        -- that section of the law does not apply

        10       currently to major corporations that have their

        11        -- I'm not sure what the numbers are, but in

        12       excess of 50,000 or something of that nature,

        13       but what this bill says, if you work for a small

        14       corporation and you're an employee and you work

        15       for that corporation -- and in many cases you're

        16       dealing with just the boss.  You've got a

        17       corporate entity, but you deal with the boss

        18       who's the major shareholder, and the boss says,

        19       "We got to go to work this week" and "We got to

        20       go to work next week and, don't worry, I'll pay

        21       you.  I'll pay you with your paycheck.  Your

        22       paycheck will come at the end of the two-week

        23       period."  What happens is they don't get the











                                                             
5850

         1       paycheck.  The employee goes in to the employer

         2       and says, "You owe me weeks' worth of pay."  The

         3       employer then says, "Well, I've decided to go

         4       bankrupt.  We're not going to pay you and, oh,

         5       by the way, there's no personal liability

         6       against me.  You can sue the corporation as an

         7       unsecured creditor and you can stand in line

         8       behind all the people who filed liens, all the

         9       people who have filed claims against the

        10       corporation, have judgments against the

        11       corporation, you, Mr. Employee, you can stand

        12       behind all those other creditors."  It seems to

        13       me that that's not fair.

        14                      What we have done in this state

        15       much to our credit over the course of the last

        16       50 years is we have said that if you're working

        17       and you deserve to be paid wages, we're going to

        18       give you every possible tool to collect those

        19       wages, including we are going to make the

        20       shareholders of a small corporation personally

        21       liable when those wages are not paid.

        22                      It's a tremendous incentive for

        23       the corporation to put the employee, the person











                                                             
5851

         1       who puts their labor into the fields or into the

         2       benefit of a corporation, that the employee

         3       makes sure that they're going to get paid.

         4                      I don't like the trend of this

         5       legislation.  I don't like being -- telling our

         6       employees that if you work for a small corpora

         7       tion and they go bankrupt, guess what, you get

         8       nothing.  We can tell that to creditors.  We can

         9       tell that to other judgment creditors against

        10       small corporations, but I'm opposed to telling

        11       it to people that work for small businesses in

        12       this state.  I think this is the wrong idea.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        21       the results when tabulated.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        23       the negative on Calendar Number 625 are Senators











                                                             
5852

         1       Dollinger, Onorato and Stavisky.  Ayes 55, nays

         2       3.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       652, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2336, an

         7       act to amend the Executive Law and the Education

         8       Law, in relation to providing security informa

         9       tion to prospective students.

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside

        11       temporarily.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside temporarily.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       671, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 408, an act

        16       to amend the Correction Law and the County Law,

        17       in relation to maintenance of prisoners.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside

        19       temporarily.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        21       bill aside temporarily.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       674, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1740, an











                                                             
5853

         1       act to amend the Executive Law and the Penal

         2       Law.

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside

         4       temporarily.  He's at the Finance meeting.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside temporarily.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       678, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2355, an

         9       act amend the Education Law, in relation to

        10       requiring that the State University graduation

        11       ceremonies including the Pledge of Allegiance

        12       and the National Anthem.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        16       I don't know if some of those who are employed

        17       here know, but we only instituted the reciting

        18       of the National Anthem in 1988 in the winter,

        19       and I think it actually puts us in a good frame

        20       of mind every day when we come in here -- I'm

        21       sorry, the Pledge of Allegiance.  We recite the

        22       Pledge of Allegiance, and that brings me to this

        23       bill.











                                                             
5854

         1                      I'd proudly support this bill

         2       but, Mr. President, I don't know why we don't

         3       sing the National Anthem here.  I think we could

         4       bring in entertainers from all over the country

         5       to lead us in singing the National Anthem, and

         6       in the absence of entertainers, as in the

         7       absence of clergy, you, Mr. President, could

         8       sing the National Anthem.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I don't

        10       think you would want that, Senator.

        11                      The Secretary will read the last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

        19       Senator Connor recorded in the negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair











                                                             
5855

         1       recognizes Senator Holland.  Senator Holland, do

         2       you have a motion in front of you?

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I have two.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Ask the

         5       Majority Leader to do housekeeping.

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Let's do a

         7       little housekeeping, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sounds

         9       like a good idea.  Senator Holland, you have

        10       been given the room.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  On page 24, I

        12       offer the following amendments to Calendar

        13       Number 581 for Senator Trunzo, Senate Print

        14       Number 3755, and ask that the said bill retain

        15       its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       amendments to Calendar Number 581 are received

        18       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        19       the Third Reading Calendar.

        20                      Senator Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Also on page

        22       59, I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        23       Number 888, Senate Print Number 1470, and ask











                                                             
5856

         1       that said bill retain its place on the Third

         2       Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 888 are received

         5       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         6       the Third Reading Calendar.

         7                      Senator Holland.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  On behalf of

         9       Senator Libous, please place a sponsor's star on

        10       Calendar Number 801 and 938.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendars

        12       Number 801 and 938 will be starred at the

        13       request of the sponsor.

        14                      Senator Waldon, why do you rise?

        15                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may, Mr.

        16       President, I respectfully request unanimous

        17       consent in regard to Calendar Number 678 to be

        18       recorded in the negative and to make one

        19       statement in that regard regarding my vote.

        20                      I think that -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Waldon, that is not really permissible at this

        23       point.











                                                             
5857

         1                      SENATOR WALDON:  Okay, Mr.

         2       President.  I stand corrected.  Please record me

         3       in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.

         5       Without objection, and hearing no objection,

         6       Senator Waldon will be recorded in the negative

         7       on Calendar Number 678.

         8                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         9       Johnson.

        10                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        11       I would like to call up my Calendar Number 602

        12       which already passed and reconsider the vote.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Johnson, you're talking about Calendar Number

        15       602, Senator Maltese's bill?

        16                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  That's correct.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Johnson, I'm informed that that bill has left

        19       the house, so we can no longer reconsider it at

        20       this time.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, I'll just

        22       have to let it go, Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
5858

         1       Maziarz, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

         3       my apologies.  I would like to, with your

         4       permission and the permission of the Senate, be

         5       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 703.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, and hearing no objection, Senator

         8       Maziarz will be recorded in the negative on

         9       Calendar 703.

        10                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        12       recognizes Senator Larkin.

        13                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        14       may we return to reports of standing committees?

        15       I believe there's a report from the Rules

        16       Committee at the desk.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Larkin, I'm informed by the Secretary that there

        19       is a report of the Rules Committee at the desk,

        20       so we will return to the reports of standing

        21       committees at your request.

        22                      I'll ask the Secretary to read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,











                                                             
5859

         1       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         2       following bill directly to third reading:

         3                      By the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Print 7373-A, an act to amend Chapter

         5       729 of the Laws of 1994, relating to effecting

         6       the health insurance benefits and contributions

         7       of retired employees.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Larkin.

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I move we adopt

        11       the report of the Rules Committee, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       motion is to adopt the report of the Rules

        15       Committee.  All those in favor signify by saying

        16       aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye".)

        18                      Opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The Rules report is adopted.

        21                      Senator Larkin.

        22                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        23       may we take up Calendar 1000, Assembly Bill











                                                             
5860

         1       7373-A, health insurance benefit extenders for

         2       retirees.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Larkin, so that you know, the bill is being

         5       distributed to the members at this moment.  May

         6       we wait just a minute before I have the

         7       Secretary read the title until it is distributed

         8       to all of the members?

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I believe

        12       all bills have been distributed to all the

        13       members at this time, so the Secretary will read

        14       the title.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1000, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        17       Assembly Print 7373-A, an act to amend Chapter

        18       729 of the Laws of 1994, relating to effecting

        19       the health insurance benefits and contributions

        20       of retired employees.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5861

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      Senator Larkin.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

        10       suggest we stand at ease for a few minutes.  The

        11       Finance Committee has not finished its business,

        12       so let's just stand at ease.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Senate will stand at ease for a short period of

        15       time.

        16                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        17       ease from 11:51 a.m. until 12:06 p.m.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Senate will come to order.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

        21       call up Calendar 674?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the title on Calendar Number











                                                             
5862

         1       674.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 33,

         3       Calendar Number 674, by Senator Skelos, Senate

         4       Print 1740, an act to amend the Executive Law

         5       and the Penal Law, in relation to payment of a

         6       fee by persons sentenced to probation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Abate.

         9                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Is there an

        10       an amendment at the desk?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is,

        12       Senator Abate.

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  I'd like to waive

        14       the reading of that amendment, and I'd ask for

        15       an opportunity to explain the amendment.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       reading of the amendment proposed by Senator

        18       Abate is waived and the opportunity to explain

        19       it is provided to you at this moment.

        20                      SENATOR ABATE:  Thank you very

        21       much, Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Abate.











                                                             
5863

         1                      SENATOR ABATE:  My amendment

         2       allows for a county or the New York City to have

         3       the option through local law to put this

         4       legislation in operation.

         5                      Right now, as the legislation is

         6       drafted, it's mandatory for all counties, and

         7       the reason that I'm seeking this change  -- and

         8       I go back to the days when I was the Commission

         9       er of Probation in New York City and I met with

        10       all the probation departments throughout the

        11       state -- we had lengthy discussions over the

        12       last four years around this piece of legisla

        13       tion, and there is an organization called COPA

        14       which is made up of all the probation

        15       administrators throughout the state, made up of

        16       the administrators from rural counties, from

        17       large cities, from all the counties throughout

        18       the state, and there was a consensus that this

        19       bill in spirit was very good, that many

        20       counties, particularly counties like Nassau

        21       County, could utilize this legislation to

        22       produce additional revenue, but there were other

        23       counties that felt that this legislation would











                                                             
5864

         1       put an undue burden on them, and that the cost

         2       of collecting these revenues would exceed any

         3       revenues that they might be able to produce

         4       through the probationers.

         5                      So my amendment would not

         6       eviscerate this legislation.  It would just

         7       allow the localities, through local option, to

         8       legislate, if they felt that this would be

         9       something that was beneficial to this county,

        10       and the reason the -- a number of the probation

        11       departments find this troublesome -- and I can

        12       speak to New York City because I know that

        13       department the best -- there are now 75,000

        14       people on probation.  77 percent of them are

        15       felons, so we're not talking about individuals

        16       who have been arrested for drunk driving and

        17       property crimes, individuals that are currently

        18       employed or have an employment record.  Many of

        19       these individuals are indigent and do not have

        20       money but, if this bill were passed, every

        21       probation department would have to expend

        22       limited resources doing a financial analysis for

        23       77,000 probationers.  Money would have to be put











                                                             
5865

         1       in place to allow a reporting system for the

         2       court.  The court would then have to put in

         3       place more judges to hear probation violators,

         4       and probation departments are saying they're

         5       having a hard time now getting money from

         6       probationers for restitution, for mandatory

         7       surcharges and other fees that need to be

         8       collected.

         9                      So, on balance, I think we should

        10       let it be done by local rule.  Those probation

        11       departments that are barely surviving that need

        12       every resource possible to supervise violent

        13       offenders, those resources should not be

        14       depleted.  We want those resources on the street

        15       to protect the general public to make sure the

        16       violent offenders that are on probation are

        17       supervised adequately, and many probation

        18       departments do not have sufficient resources to

        19       prepare their investigation reports to the

        20       court, and again, they would have to take those

        21       needed resources to try to collect these fees.

        22                      So I say let it be local option.

        23       I think it's a wonderful idea, Senator Skelos,











                                                             
5866

         1       for those counties that want it.  It's an

         2       opportunity for them to produce additional

         3       revenue.  For the counties that don't have the

         4       resource do it, let them figure out other

         5       innovative ways.

         6                      A number of the counties want to

         7       come back and meet with you, Senator Skelos -

         8       I've talked with them -- to look at how next

         9       year, if this was changed to local option, how

        10       they could opt in, in a more creative and less

        11       burdensome way.

        12                      So I'd ask this body to seriously

        13       consider this amendment.  There's a way then to

        14       move forward on your initiative, Senator, but -

        15       and in some ways it could serve as an experiment

        16       statewide; we could look at the results of this

        17       and then take the next step, if necessary, the

        18       following year.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Jones on the amendment.

        21                      SENATOR JONES:  Yes, on the

        22       amendment.

        23                      I would just like to add that I











                                                             
5867

         1       commend Senator Skelos because this year -- I

         2       know we put on probation fees last year but we

         3       didn't give them any mechanism to do anything

         4       about it, and I know from talking to my own

         5       probation people, what was happening was many of

         6       them, because it didn't come from the court,

         7       their sentence would be up and there was no way

         8       to collect.  So I see you've fixed that now so

         9       that it is a condition of the sentencing, but I

        10       will have to say that from my own director of

        11       probation in my county, he did indicate the same

        12       thing that Senator Abate just said, that they

        13       thought they had an agreement where it would be

        14       subject to local option and would not be

        15       mandatory on every county, that it would be left

        16       to the local government.

        17                      So I am supportive of the

        18       amendment.  I am certainly supportive of the

        19       concept of making them pay and do whatever we

        20       can to not only lessen the cost for our

        21       community but, you know, to do something that I

        22       believe is right for people who have broken the

        23       law but, you know, I would also agree that I











                                                             
5868

         1       wish we could have made it local option as

         2       opposed to mandatory for everybody.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       question is on the amendment.  All those in

         5       favor of the amendment signify by saying aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      Opposed, nay.

         8                      (Response of "Nay".)

         9                      The amendment, in a close vote,

        10       failed.

        11                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President,

        12       did you hear me say "aye"?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I heard

        14       you say it twice, I thought, Senator Onorato,

        15       but again, I'm in need of signing up for that

        16       hearing exam at the nurse's office.

        17                      The Secretary will read the last

        18       section on the bill.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        21       November.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Waldon.











                                                             
5869

         1                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President -

         2       if I may, Mr. President, I would just like to

         3       ask a question or two of the sponsor.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Skelos, do you yield to a question from Senator

         6       Waldon?

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes, Senator.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senator yields, Senator Waldon.

        10                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President. Thank you, Senator Skelos.

        12                      Senator, would you please refresh

        13       my recollection about the mechanism for collect

        14       ing these monies and who is the decision-maker

        15       as to whether or not someone can afford to pay?

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  At the time of

        17       sentencing, as you know, the Probation Depart

        18       ment will make a recommendation to the sentenc

        19       ing judge as to what they feel would be approp

        20       riate probation for the criminal.  At that time,

        21       they would make a recommendation to the

        22       sentencing judge.  The defendant would have his

        23       attorney -- his or her attorney present and -











                                                             
5870

         1       to discuss with the judge at the time of

         2       probation whether, in fact, they can or are able

         3       to reimburse the county for the cost of

         4       probation.  So this would be a condition of

         5       probation.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Skelos, do you continue to yield?  The Senator

         9       continues to yield.

        10                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      Senator, I'm not clear, though,

        13       as to the decision on the amount that the person

        14       on probation would be required to pay.  Is that

        15       going to be the purview of the probation officer

        16       or will there be a separate mechanism created,

        17       because becoming a probation officer requires

        18       certain skills and certain education, none of

        19       which is necessarily indicative that the person

        20       will be a good financial planner in regard to

        21       this situation.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  It would be

        23       determined by the sentencing judge.  The judge











                                                             
5871

         1       at that time would take into account the

         2       financial resources, assets of the individual,

         3       the health, the age and any other relevant

         4       factor in making a determination as to whether

         5       this person is indigent or non-indigent and

         6       could afford to reimburse the county or the city

         7       for the cost of probation supervision.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         9       much, Senator.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        16       the results when tabulated.

        17                      Senator Volker to explain his

        18       vote.

        19                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Just to explain

        20       my vote quickly.

        21                      The real reason for this

        22       legislation and the problem is the city of New

        23       York.











                                                             
5872

         1                      The city of New York absolutely

         2       refuses to -- the judges in the City, to even

         3       consider attempting to collect fees such as

         4       this, even though there is a considerable per

         5       centage, and I admit it's not a high percentage,

         6       but a considerable percentage of defendants who

         7       would be able to cover the cost, but the City

         8       has taken the attitude over the years and, very

         9       honestly, there has been some consideration, and

        10       I think one of the reasons why some of the

        11       probation directors are worried that we might do

        12       it, and that is to put some sort of restrictions

        13       on it, that is if they don't collect it, to put

        14       some sort of a penalty added.

        15                      One of the suggestions a couple

        16       of years ago was to set some sort of minimum

        17       where you could -- to say that whatever you

        18       collected would come out of -- would come out of

        19       the appropriation that you get.  I think the

        20       truth is that that's the real fear of some of

        21       the probation directors.  Frankly, with the new

        22       governor, that's not likely to happen, and

        23       certainly this Senate, I think, wouldn't support











                                                             
5873

         1       that.

         2                      I think the problem is that the

         3       City in particular is going to have to join the

         4       rest of the state in attempting to deal with the

         5       problems of criminal justice and with the

         6       extreme costs.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Volker, how do you vote?

         9                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I vote in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Volker will be recorded in the affirmative.

        13       Announce the results.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        15       the negative on Calendar 674 are Senators Abate,

        16       Connor, Markowitz, Paterson and Waldon.  Ayes

        17       53, nays 5.  Also, Senator Smith.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        21       could you call up Calendar Number 671, please?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read Calendar Number 671.











                                                             
5874

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 32,

         2       Calendar Number 671, by Senator Skelos, Senate

         3       Print 408, an act to amend the Correction Law

         4       and the County law, in relation to maintenance

         5       of prisoners in county jail facilities.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Skelos, an explanation has been asked for by

         9       Senator Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator

        11       Paterson, this bill amends the Correction Law

        12       and the County Law to provide that a prisoner

        13       who had been found non-indigent shall be

        14       required to reimburse a county or city jail

        15       certain expenses incurred during his or her term

        16       of imprisonment.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Paterson.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        20       I know sometimes you'll read cases about the

        21       detention of Klaus Von Bulow or some music

        22       artist that has great personal attributes and

        23       probably could pay for their care during the











                                                             
5875

         1       time that they're incarcerated, but I think that

         2       what would happen with this bill is it would

         3       create such a dilemma for all the different

         4       counties.

         5                      We haven't really issued a -- an

         6       overriding resolution for how each county should

         7       deal with this.  I think, as Senator Abate

         8       pointed out before, it would create more of a

         9       problem for facilities than it would actually

        10       cure, but if Senator Skelos would yield for a

        11       question.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Skelos, do you yield to a question?

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator yields, Senator Paterson.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I'm

        18       just a little concerned about the individuals

        19       who are not convicted.  I know that we're

        20       talking about city and county jails and it would

        21       cover those who are convicted maybe up to one

        22       year or something like that, but let's just take

        23       those individuals who are not convicted.  Don't











                                                             
5876

         1       you think that this legislation, by passing it,

         2       would kind of open the door for the fact that,

         3       since we're going to charge them for their

         4       health care while we have detained them, those

         5       who are awaiting trial, for those who are found

         6       not guilty, do you think they would then have a

         7       right to come back and, in a sense, ask us for

         8       whatever it was that they were denied while they

         9       were being incarcerated?

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Well, it's the

        11       intent of this legislation that it would apply

        12       to a prisoner who's been convicted and released

        13       from jail.  Then the county or the city would

        14       have the option of petitioning the court to get

        15       reimbursement from a non-indigent prisoner for

        16       the cost of incarceration.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Paterson.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  So, then,

        20       Senator, it does not cover those who are not

        21       convicted.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  The person would

        23       have had to have been sentenced to jail.











                                                             
5877

         1                      Let me assure you, Senator

         2       Paterson and Senator Abate, that with the two

         3       pieces of legislation, if the -- if the Assembly

         4       will get serious about the concepts that these

         5       two bills represent, then we will certainly

         6       enter into a discussion with suggestions that

         7       Senator Abate had with her amendment and

         8       certainly any concerns that you have.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       I heard what Senator Skelos said, and I don't

        11       need to see the nurse.  I heard it very clearly.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        21       the results when tabulated.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

        23       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.











                                                             
5878

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Gold, why do you rise?

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  While I was

         7       at Finance, there were some bills called, and I

         8       would like unanimous consent to be recorded in

         9       the negative on Calendar 234, 674 and 678.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  670...

        11       what was the last one, Senator Gold?

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  678.

        13                      Thank you very much.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        16       objection, and hearing no objection, Senator

        17       Gold will be recorded in the negative on

        18       Calendar Number 234, 674 and 678.

        19                      Senator Leichter, why do you

        20       rise?

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President.  I was also in Finance, and I would

        23       like to ask unanimous consent to be recorded in











                                                             
5879

         1       the negative on Calendar 234 and Calendar 678.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

         4       Leichter will be recorded in the negative on

         5       Calendar Number 234 and Calendar Number 678.

         6                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Markowitz.

        10                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Calendar

        11       Number 671, please record me in the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       objection.

        14                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        16       no objection, Senator Markowitz will be recorded

        17       in the negative on Calendar Number 671.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

        22       call up Calendar Number 603, Senate 3343, by

        23       Senator Leibell.











                                                             
5880

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the title of Calendar Number

         3       603.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 26,

         5       Calendar Number 603, by Senator Leibell, Senate

         6       Print 3343, an act to amend the Real Property

         7       Tax Law, in relation to the exemption of certain

         8       private dwellings and improvements within cities

         9       having a population of less than one million

        10       from local taxation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Leichter, why do you

        22       rise?

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,











                                                             
5881

         1       with your indulgence, I apparently, coming back

         2       into session from Finance, voted against a bill

         3       because I thought it was another bill.  So could

         4       the record please reflect that I am in favor or

         5       I should be voted in the affirmative on 671 and

         6       ask unanimous consent to be in the negative on

         7       Calendar 674?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         9       objection, Senator Leichter, you will be

        10       recorded in the affirmative on Calendar Number

        11       671 and in the negative on Calendar Number 674.

        12                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        13       Mendez.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        15       was in the Finance Committee, and I would like

        16       to be reported in the negative on bill Calendar

        17       Number 671.

        18                      Thank you.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        20       objection, and hearing no objection, Senator

        21       Mendez is recorded in the negative on Calendar

        22       Number 671.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair











                                                             
5882

         1       recognizes Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         3       if we could return to reports of standing

         4       committees, I believe there's a report from the

         5       Finance Committee at the desk.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You're

         7       correct, Senator Skelos, there is a report of

         8       the Finance Committee at the desk.  We'll return

         9       to the reports of standing committees, and I'll

        10       ask the Secretary to read the report of the

        11       Finance Committee.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        13       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        14       following nomination:  E. Virgil Conway of

        15       Bronxville, Chairman of the Metropolitan

        16       Transportation Authority.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President, Senator Skelos.

        21                      I'm sure some will say here,

        22       after I speak very briefly today, that it seems

        23       as though I'm always saying this; but when it's











                                                             
5883

         1       true, I think it should be said.  The Governor

         2       has sent up here tremendous individuals.  He has

         3       nominated people who really will get the job

         4       done, and I will say here again today, we again

         5       have as good a nominee presented to us since I

         6       have been here in the Legislature, and that

         7       includes 30 years.

         8                      If you are a cum laude graduate,

         9       Phi Beta Kappa, valedictorian of your class, CEO

        10       of a major corporation, involved in all the

        11       community interests that Virgil Conway has been

        12       involved in, it shows the type of individual you

        13       are.  We're all going to be better in this state

        14       with him being chairman of the MTA because he is

        15       going to get the job done, the job that affects

        16       all the people in this state, and I certainly am

        17       proud to stand here today and support his

        18       confirmation for a most important position.

        19                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        21       recognizes Senator Levy.

        22                      SENATOR LEVY:  Thank you very

        23       much, Mr. President.  It's a genuine honor and











                                                             
5884

         1       privilege to rise to join with Senator Stafford

         2       in moving the confirmation of the nomination of

         3       E. Virgil Conway to be the chair of the

         4       Metropolitan Transportation Authority.  Virg'

         5       Conway's career is the personification of the

         6       realization of the American dream.

         7                      As Senator LaValle pointed out at

         8       the Finance Committee meeting, Virg' Conway was

         9       born in Southampton.  He grew up in the hamlet

        10       of Montauk.  He attended elementary school in

        11       the community of Montauk, graduated from East

        12       Hampton High School, and he went to Colgate

        13       University on a scholarship; and as Senator

        14       Stafford pointed out, he was Phi Beta Kappa and

        15       he graduated magna cum laude.  His education was

        16       interrupted by the Korean War, and he served as

        17       a pilot in the Air Force during the Korean War.

        18                      He went back to law school after

        19       the war, to Yale Law School.  He went there on a

        20       scholarship, on the G.I. Korean bill of rights,

        21       and he worked his way through Yale Law School

        22       and he was the editor of the Yale law journal,

        23       the Law Review.











                                                             
5885

         1                      He began his career in public

         2       service working with Governor Nelson

         3       Rockefeller.  He worked his way up through the

         4       chairs to be Deputy Superintendent of Banks and

         5       that led him into a career in the banking

         6       profession and ultimately to become the chair

         7       and the CEO of Seamen's Bank.  During Virg'

         8       Conway's long career in the private sector, he

         9       has always made the time for the longest and

        10       widest spectrum of public service and community

        11       service, including serving during the past three

        12       years as a member of the board of the MTA.

        13                      Virgil Conway's nomination to be

        14       chair of the MTA comes at the most critical

        15       time, the critical point in the history of the

        16       Authority.  After quantum progress forward under

        17       another private sector leader, Dick Ravitch, the

        18       MTA today faces a shrinking financial base,

        19       cutbacks by New York City, proposed cutbacks by

        20       the federal government and limitations on state

        21       government funding driven by our own deficit.

        22       As someone who has known Virgil Conway, I have

        23       complete, implicit faith in his ability in these











                                                             
5886

         1       troubled times to bring order and control, to

         2       bring financial stability, financial restraint,

         3       and at the same time to improve the service and

         4       to continue the improvement of the Authority's

         5       infrastructure.

         6                      Virgil Conway is an extraordin

         7       arily experienced and successful leader.  He is

         8       the right person at the right time for this

         9       Authority, and the Governor is to be commended

        10       for this outstanding appointment.

        11                      Thank you very much, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

        14       you, Senator Levy.

        15                      Chair recognizes Senator Spano on

        16       the confirmation.

        17                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you very

        18       much, Mr. President.

        19                      You might think after listening

        20       to Senator Stafford and Senator Levy that there

        21       might not be much to add about the Governor's

        22       nominee, but that is very far from the truth.

        23                      When you look at the resume, the











                                                             
5887

         1       qualifications, the background of Virgil Conway,

         2       he is someone who is very uniquely qualified to

         3       be the head of one of the largest transportation

         4       systems in the world; and it is my pleasure to

         5       stand up and to say that I recognize that Virgil

         6       and his wife, Elaine, have been very strong,

         7       committed residents of Westchester County.  He

         8       has served at the recommendation of the County

         9       Executive of Westchester as a member of the

        10       MTA.  He knows the workings of that agency.  He

        11       knows the concerns of the people who use the

        12       transportation system.  He knows the background

        13       in terms of his own background in the financial

        14       services industry.  That is a long and extensive

        15       background.  He has been involved in many, many

        16       different charitable and philanthropic

        17       organizations in our region and in this state.

        18                      It is my pleasure, Mr. President,

        19       to stand and to join with my colleagues in very

        20       strongly supporting the nomination of someone I

        21       have known for a long time and who will do us

        22       all real proud, the nomination of Virgil

        23       Conway.











                                                             
5888

         1                      Also, I'm glad to note that his

         2       wife, Elaine, is here today, as well, who in her

         3       own right is a professional and is serving this

         4       state well, and I'm glad to see you both here

         5       today.

         6                      Mr. President.  I second the

         7       nomination.

         8                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        10       recognizes Senator Goodman.

        11                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.

        12       I have had the pleasure and privilege of knowing

        13       Virgil Conway for perhaps 30 to 40 years, and

        14       I'm just delighted to see that he has made a

        15       very important personal decision which continues

        16       his public service.  It's very unusual to find

        17       someone of this background who is willing to

        18       devote his time on a pro bono basis to a

        19       sensitive and highly controversial position.

        20                      Make no bones about it, the MTA

        21       is one of the -- chairmanship is one of the

        22       toughest jobs in the State of New York,

        23       involving, as it must, the clashing of interests











                                                             
5889

         1       of people, many of whom have legitimate claims

         2       on both sides of an argument.  We have long seen

         3       the battle, for example -- a well-intended one,

         4       no doubt, but a bitter one -- that occurs when

         5       those who are outside the city of New York seek

         6       to obtain funds which the city of New York may

         7       think should more properly be directed to it;

         8       and to intermediate in such conflicts requires

         9       an individual made of stern stuff.

        10                      I'm happy to say that the

        11       inference which we can readily draw from the

        12       extraordinary experience of Mr. Conway is that

        13       he will have the capacity to handle these types

        14       of conflicts with skilled diplomacy and

        15       fairness.

        16                      I think it's very unusual to find

        17       a resume of this richness and diversity.  Virgil

        18       Conway was not only a major bank president but

        19       he has been involved on the boards of a number

        20       of major corporations, including a large

        21       railroad.  He has also had an extraordinary

        22       record of community service as reflected in the

        23       fact that he was Deputy Bank Superintendent in











                                                             
5890

         1       an earlier administration in New York State.

         2                      To sum it up succinctly, this is

         3       a man of character, of dedication to the public

         4       interest, and of real ability of a type that is

         5       rarely found and available to government, and I

         6       think we should congratulate Governor Pataki and

         7       express deep gratitude to Virgil Conway for his

         8       willingness to take on this thorny and very

         9       complex assignment.

        10                      To the extent that he will be

        11       suffering the pangs and arrows, he will be

        12       mollified and consoled by his extraordinarily

        13       capable wife, who is in the chamber today, as

        14       was noted.  She herself will be playing a

        15       significant role in this current administration,

        16       and I dare say that at night their pillow talk

        17       will involve all of the problems that beset the

        18       citizens of New York.  They will have ample

        19       opportunity to exchange views on these matters,

        20       and the result will be benefits to the state

        21       that have been hitherto unimaginable except when

        22       unique couples are together and are both in high

        23       public service.











                                                             
5891

         1                      In all seriousness, Mr.

         2       President, let me say we are very, very lucky to

         3       have Virgil Conway available for this task, and

         4       we're very deeply grateful to him for being

         5       willing to take it on at no pay whatsoever.  I

         6       would point out that the previous salary

         7       attaching to this job was $150,000 a year.  Mr.

         8       Conway has waived that salary and, instead, has

         9       very advisedly, I think, taken the view that a

        10       chairman should be in place but, as well, there

        11       should be an operating officer attending to the

        12       daily details; and that combination is one which

        13       I'm convinced will serve the public in the best

        14       possible way under these services.

        15                      Mr. Conway, I salute you and I

        16       commend most highly you to the house for prompt

        17       confirmation.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        19       would recognize Senator Bruno on the

        20       confirmation.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  If Senator Gold

        22       is standing to speak, I would defer to Senator

        23       Gold at this time.











                                                             
5892

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Gold, the Majority Leader defers to you relative

         3       to the confirmation.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I would be

         5       surprised except I have always said he is a

         6       gracious gentleman, so it's no surprise.  Thank

         7       you.  You're very kind, sir.

         8                      I would like to make a few

         9       comments.  First of all, I think the resume is

        10       important because, in a vacuum, if you didn't

        11       know anything about the gentleman, never met him

        12       and read the resume, you would have to be

        13       impressed and you would say Governor Pataki is

        14       looking for people who ought to be in government

        15       and he has made a major catch.

        16                      So I do congratulate Governor

        17       Pataki.  I think this is a wonderful appoint

        18       ment, and he makes the entire state look good

        19       with this appointment.

        20                      There were a couple of rumors

        21       around that we have to dispel.  One of them,

        22       which we did dispel, is that he has not been

        23       able to overcome his early involvement with











                                                             
5893

         1       Martin Oppenheimer on the Yale Law Review.  He

         2       has certainly done that and is doing great.

         3                      The other rumor which is of a

         4       more serious nature, and I'm glad that we

         5       discussed it at the Finance Committee, dealt

         6       with an issue of a cut in services in the city

         7       of New York and the subway system closing

         8       stations early, and the nominee, I guess, went

         9       out of his way to make sure that was corrected

        10       in the press, which was very important to the

        11       people in the city of New York, that he didn't

        12       let that lay out there as a rumor; and this

        13       morning at the Finance Committee meeting, he

        14       confirmed the fact that he believes New York

        15       City is a 24-hour city.  He understands that our

        16       subway and transit system is like the bloodline

        17       of a human being and is very, very necessary for

        18       the survival of the city.

        19                      I also appreciated his remarks

        20       concerning a sensitivity to the funding inequit

        21       ies, the state funding inequities as it applies

        22       to the transit system.  I understand with my

        23       eyes wide open that we are confirming today a











                                                             
5894

         1       nominee of a Republican governor and that the

         2       budget in this state will have the imprimatur of

         3       a Republican governor, but still I think it's

         4       important for the people of the city of New York

         5       to know that the person who will chair the MTA

         6       has at least some sensitivity to that inequity;

         7       and maybe with the good help of people in the

         8       other house, we can do something about it.

         9                      The last issue -- and I know that

        10       to some extent it's a problem that transcends

        11       the nominee -- is, it is disappointing that we

        12       do confirm people with resumes not quite of the

        13       quality of Mr. Conway but of good people and

        14       then when the MTA holds its hearings we find out

        15       that the attendance record is under 25 percent.

        16       I would urge everybody who is a member of that

        17       board -- we are confirming today someone of fine

        18       credentials, someone who has a willingness to

        19       work, and someone who wants to make a

        20       difference.  I hope the other members of the

        21       board will use his energies as an example and

        22       participate.  Why?  So that the intellect that

        23       helped to build their resumes becomes useful to











                                                             
5895

         1       the people of this state.  The resume does no

         2       good if we are withheld from the talents of

         3       those people.  So I hope that, under the

         4       leadership of a chairman who I think is going to

         5       be terrific, I hope that his energy in some way

         6       passes its way through so we get the full

         7       advantages of the board.

         8                      Mr. President, it's a delight to

         9       support this nomination.  I know it's one that

        10       we're all going to be very, very proud of.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Bruno.

        13                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, I

        14       also want to add my congratulations to our

        15       Governor for this very, very outstanding choice.

        16       My congratulations to Virg' and to his wife,

        17       Elaine, who has been a partner of his for an

        18       awful lot of years.

        19                      I first met Virg' when I was on

        20       staff, as you may recall, to Speaker Perry

        21       Duryea, and my recollection -- and that was some

        22       20-odd years ago -- was that whenever anything

        23       was needed on behalf of the people of this











                                                             
5896

         1       state, the Speaker could reach out, we could

         2       reach out, and Virg' Conway was there; and it

         3       didn't make any difference whether it was New

         4       York City, upstate, the Island, if there was a

         5       need, he was trying to be helpful, most of the

         6       time -- in fact, all the time that I'm aware of,

         7       in a nonpaid voluntary way.  Why?  Because he is

         8       committed to improving the quality of life for

         9       people in New York.

        10                      I appreciate that, and I know the

        11       people in this chamber appreciate that by your

        12       comments.  So I commend him for accepting this

        13       great challenge that will be before him, and

        14       again I commend the Governor on this outstanding

        15       choice.  We have a true public servant who is

        16       willing to take on the task that is beyond the

        17       comprehension of most people, but I'm totally

        18       confident, Mr. President, my colleagues, that he

        19       is up to the task, so I'm very pleased to stand

        20       in his support in this chamber.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Farley on the confirmation.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
5897

         1       President.

         2                      I guess if the Pataki

         3       administration has accomplished anything, it is

         4       the superb appointments that it has made, and

         5       none is more outstanding than Virgil Conway.

         6                      For the 20 years that I have been

         7       on the Banking Committee and as chairman, I am

         8       very familiar with his work.  Incidentally, he

         9       chaired the transition team on banks and has

        10       always been of service to this state.  He's led

        11       the thrift industry through some very, very

        12       difficult times several years ago.

        13                      Virgil Conway is an outstanding

        14       citizen.  I guess all I can say, Virgil, is

        15       thank you.  Thank you for being willing to serve

        16       your state.  As a citizen and as a Senator, I'm

        17       very, very grateful for your contribution.  You

        18       are an outstanding person who has given of

        19       yourself, and I know that everybody in this

        20       chamber appreciates what you are trying to do in

        21       one of the more difficult jobs that exists in

        22       this state.

        23                      We wish you well, and I thank you











                                                             
5898

         1       for serving.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Marchi on the confirmation.

         4                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President, I

         5       can only echo the sentiments that have been

         6       expressed here and the highlights that have been

         7       identified so well and unerringly with respect

         8       to Virgil Conway.

         9                      In the late '60s, I remember our

        10       committees, our committee structures here in the

        11       Legislature.  We had Roads, we had Railroads, we

        12       had various components of transportation; and in

        13       that period, we began to evolve a general

        14       picture of the movement of people, the movement

        15       of people creatively, and to compensate and to

        16       complement the various elements that make up

        17       transportation, the lifeline of any regional

        18       area.  Certainly this regional area, the premier

        19       area in the world culturally, economically,

        20       financially, it embraces so many different

        21       disciplines; and to have a man of this

        22       excellence at its service, a man who has held

        23       responsible positions and has addressed them











                                                             
5899

         1       honestly and with integrity and with a clear

         2       vision of what his mission was and now embracing

         3       an even larger gamut of concerns because,

         4       without it, basic economic reason, basic

         5       economic and transportational needs, cultural

         6       needs, all of these factors cannot be harmonized

         7       in a way that lifts the spirits and give us a

         8       hint of the better life that is available to

         9       us.

        10                      Virgil Conway's assumption of

        11       this responsibility attests to his ability and

        12       is prologue, certainly, to a promise that holds

        13       great expectation.  Sensitive, unprepossessioned

        14        -- there is no prepossession about him -- he is

        15       an honest individual, knowing his own

        16       limitations, but his capacity is so far expanded

        17       that all of us look to the future with great

        18       expectations.

        19                      God bless, Virgil.  Thirty years,

        20       and all of them you have been a most edifying

        21       and wonderful example.

        22                      And, incidentally, you are

        23       serving pro bono.  You are being confirmed by a











                                                             
5900

         1       Senate that is also for the nonce serving pro

         2       bono.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Oppenheimer, on the confirmation.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

         6       Mr. President.  That would have been very funny,

         7       Senator Marchi, if it were not so painful.

         8                      Much has been said about Virgil

         9       Conway, and it's wonderful to have a candidate

        10       of this caliber before us.  What wasn't

        11       mentioned was the near perfect attendance that

        12       Virgil Conway has had at all board and hearing

        13       meetings of the MTA, and the value of his

        14       financial background, having been the president

        15       of Seamen's and having been involved in finance

        16       and banking for so many years, is really going

        17       to be a great strength and addition to the MTA,

        18       and something that is desperately needed.

        19                      We have made great, great

        20       progress in the commuter railroads and the

        21       subway system with the enormous infusion of

        22       capital funds that has been put into both

        23       entities, and we know that they will now be











                                                             
5901

         1       maintained and continued to be upgraded because

         2       of Virgil Conway's commitment.

         3                      I think I will end now because

         4       most everything has been said.  I want to

         5       congratulate Virg'; and my husband, who

         6       graduated with him from Yale Law School, also

         7       congratulates him.

         8                      We wish you the very best, and we

         9       will be there to support you at every turn.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        11       recognizes Senator Stavisky, our last speaker,

        12       on the confirmation.

        13                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr.

        14       President.  Virgil Conway has been accessible

        15       and candid in his response to questions.  I

        16       spent, for me, a very productive period

        17       exchanging views with the designee on the

        18       enormous responsibilities of chairing a

        19       transportation system that covers the entire

        20       metropolitan region and doing it fairly so that

        21       it will not be a chairman whose sole mission is

        22       the commuter railroads or the New York City

        23       subway system or the buses or the roads but











                                                             
5902

         1       rather someone who has the ability to understand

         2       the importance of each of these modes of

         3       transportation to the economy and stability and

         4       growth of New York State.

         5                      There were controversies with the

         6       last MTA chairman, and I rose in this chamber to

         7       express my concern about some very unwise

         8       actions taken by Mr. Conway's predecessor.

         9       Nevertheless, the previous chairman turned out

        10       to be a constructive head of the MTA, and I'm

        11       delighted that Mr. Conway does not have that

        12       baggage, but I'm absolutely convinced that he

        13       will be equally constructive and maybe even more

        14       so because he understands that he holds in his

        15       hands the level of support for all the systems.

        16       Within the large city or within the suburb area

        17       surrounding a large city, he has to be fair.

        18                      He has to be fair in

        19       understanding that there are portions of the

        20       state aid system and there are portions of the

        21       apportionment of funds, especially the surplus

        22       of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority,

        23       that does not always reflect where the money











                                                             
5903

         1       comes from; and sometimes the MTA, even more so

         2       than those of us here in the chamber, may be

         3       able to make adjustments if we would not lock in

         4       an inflexible and perhaps unfair formula into

         5       state statute.

         6                      I'm concerned about what will

         7       happen with transportation for school children

         8       if the city of New York and the Mayor's office

         9       do not provide the funds that are needed.  I'm

        10       concerned about the possibility and the

        11       opportunity for passes between subway and bus

        12       transportation for those riders who are subject

        13       to two-fare zones.

        14                      I'm concerned, finally, with the

        15       future of the MTA's capital improvement program.

        16       The long-range capital plan must move ahead, and

        17       it must be resubmitted for action over the next

        18       five-year period.

        19                      All of these are enormous

        20       responsibilities that you will bear.

        21                      I'm convinced that he will carry

        22       these responsibilities with fairness and equity

        23       and with good sense, and I support his











                                                             
5904

         1       nomination.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       question is on the nomination of E. Virgil

         4       Conway of Bronxville to become the chairman of

         5       the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.  All

         6       those in favor of the confirmation signify by

         7       saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed, nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nominee is confirmed

        12       unanimously.

        13                      Virgil, and your wife, Elaine, we

        14       really appreciate your joining us today.  We

        15       wish you Godspeed, good luck, and we know that

        16       you will do a very successful job at what you

        17       are elected or what you are nominated here

        18       today, confirmed to do.

        19                      Thank you for joining us.  Good

        20       luck.

        21                      (Applause.)

        22                      Senator Spano.

        23                      SENATOR SPANO:  Can you please











                                                             
5905

         1       have the Secretary call Calendar 562.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the title of Calendar 562.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 23,

         5       Calendar Number 562, by Senator Larkin, Senate

         6       Print 3652, an act to amend the General

         7       Municipal Law, in relation to the operation of

         8       games of chance by authorized games of chance

         9       lessors.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Larkin, an explanation on Calendar Number 562

        13       has been asked for by Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        15       This bill would provide for nonprofit corpor

        16       ations to host games of chance or Las Vegas

        17       Nights at locations not owned by the

        18       not-for-profit organization.  This authorizes

        19       games of chance to be conducted which are not

        20       owned.  For example, a fire company convention,

        21       games of chance could be held at the hosting.

        22       All profits are to go to the not-for-profit

        23       organization.











                                                             
5906

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Gold, Senator Padavan had risen.

         4                      Senator Padavan.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.  First, Senator Larkin and I did have

         7       the opportunity of discussing this bill before,

         8       and I related to him some of my concerns which I

         9       would like to share with the members.  I can

        10       understand the motivation that the sponsor has

        11       with respect to fire rescue companies seeking to

        12       raise money for their services that they provide

        13       in localities, particularly in rural areas

        14       around the state, and if this bill were

        15       restricted to such entities, my concerns would

        16       not be what they are.  However, the bill goes

        17       far beyond that in terms of its impact.

        18                      The notion that churches,

        19       temples, fraternal organizations, who now have

        20       authorization to operate Las Vegas nights on

        21       their premises a certain number of times a year

        22       and under certain restrictions can now export

        23       that activity to any commercial establishment,











                                                             
5907

         1       the main ballroom of a large hotel in New York

         2       City or any other place that is able to

         3       accommodate it, that enlarges the potential

         4       which is not hypothetical or academic of the

         5       kinds of problems such activities have already

         6       experienced in urban centers such as the city of

         7       New York; and so what we do is expand the venue

         8       of the problems related to criminal elements,

         9       problems of teenage gambling, problems of

        10       illegal gambling that have already been

        11       something we live with on a regular basis.

        12                      You may have read an article in

        13       the New York Times a week ago about a house of

        14       worship that ran Las Vegas nights which is now

        15       taken over, infiltrated by others, operating

        16       totally outside the law, illegally,

        17       clandestinely, and that's just one article about

        18       one circumstance which is a problem.  But with

        19       this legislation, that kind of problem has a

        20       potential to go just beyond the point we want to

        21       see it go to.

        22                      So I would urge the sponsor to

        23       attempt to focus his legislation in response to











                                                             
5908

         1       his constituency groups that have problems that

         2       could be addressed without causing the kinds of

         3       things that we're faced with and will be faced

         4       with in an enormous way should this bill become

         5       law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Gold.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         9                      Will the sponsor yield to a

        10       question?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Larkin, do you yield to Senator Gold?

        13                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       yields.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I'm -

        18       I'm trying to figure out.  I see the amendments

        19        -- the amendments basically take out some words

        20       here and there.  I'm trying to find the exact

        21       portion which deals with having it done off the

        22       premises.

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Paragraph 13.











                                                             
5909

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  13?

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  It just allows

         3       them to hold it, Senator Gold, off the premises;

         4       but the conduct of the game is by the person who

         5       holds the license and they must operate the

         6       game.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I

         8       understand exactly.  In other words, your memo

         9       is very, very clear.  I don't have a problem

        10       with the memo.  I'm trying to relate the memo

        11       into the language of the bill; and while Senator

        12       Padavan is very knowledgeable in this area, and

        13       I appreciate it, I'm just trying to check it

        14       myself.

        15                      Where is the specific language

        16       that talks about holding this at a different

        17       premises?

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I think if you

        19       read on Section 13, Senator, I think that

        20       encompasses it all right there.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  All

        22       that you do in paragraph 13 is take out a

        23       sentence.  Am I correct?











                                                             
5910

         1                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Right.  So we

         2       left all of the other in there.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.

         4       Senator, will you yield to a question?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       continues to yield.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  As Senator Padavan

         8       pointed out, under the existing law, there are

         9       problems; and there are places which in order to

        10       make money for the charity have opened their

        11       doors and there are people doing illegal things,

        12       and your bill certainly does not condone illegal

        13       conduct, and I'm sure you don't condone illegal

        14       conduct; but, Senator, isn't it easier for the

        15       illegal conduct to happen if we now not only

        16       have the games at the particular premises -- in

        17       other words, if you are dealing with a church or

        18       synagogue or whatever, you know, you've got to

        19       talk about having organized crime, or whatever

        20       it is, coming into these places, and somebody

        21       can get a little itchy.

        22                      Now, if you're talking about them

        23       running the game and it's not even in the church











                                                             
5911

         1       or synagogue, it might be uncomfortable but not

         2       quite as uncomfortable.  Don't you think we're

         3       making it a little easier for those groups that

         4       might want to get into that to -- you know, make

         5       it a little less inconvenient for them?

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Talking to

         7       people who've asked me to consider this,

         8       Senator, it was a clear indication that some of

         9       our upstaters small volunteer ambulance, fire

        10       companies, and that, that are nonprofits feel

        11       that they needed some place because the

        12       equipment that they are buying today and trying

        13       to remove the burden on the taxpayers, because

        14       all of the money that's raised at this event

        15       goes to the person that holds the license, and

        16       these licenses still have to be issued by the

        17       Racing and Wagering Board.

        18                      We don't see that as a problem.

        19       I mean I visit a lot of them in my district, and

        20       the main complaint is adequate space.  We need a

        21       bigger place to hold it and, as I said before,

        22       the cost of all of the equipment and everything

        23       else and trying to hold it down.











                                                             
5912

         1                      They don't seem to -- I did pose

         2       the question that you have because when we

         3       talked about this last year I refused to put it

         4       in last year because I thought we needed to look

         5       at it.  I looked in my own district and

         6       surrounding districts and talking to these

         7       various not-for-profits, and they feel it's

         8       their responsibility as the holder of the

         9       license and there are inspectors that go around

        10       to these facilities and would continue to go on

        11       even if its held in a different location.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        13       yield to a question?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Larkin, do you yield to Senator Gold?

        16                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, sir.  Yes,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       yields.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, just so I

        21       understand it.  Let's say that the volunteer

        22       fire department and this group and that group

        23       got permission to do it and there was one place











                                                             
5913

         1       in town, a movie theater, an abandoned movie

         2       theater, and somebody takes over the theater or

         3       the area, catering hall, under the existing law

         4       or the law as you amend it, could an individual

         5       take it over and actually set it up as a Las

         6       Vegas Night type of operation and then be

         7       available if the volunteer fire department wants

         8       to come in and use that and then maybe the next

         9       week have it available for a church and the next

        10       week have it available for a synagogue?

        11                      SENATOR LARKIN:  There is a

        12       restriction now on how often they can hold one

        13       of these events.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  No, I understand

        15       that, but the restriction is on the church,

        16       synagogue or volunteer fire department; is that

        17       correct?

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  What I'm trying to

        20       find out is, under your bill, can somebody set

        21       up a place and then the church might come in

        22       there on a Monday, and then the following Monday

        23       it might be a volunteer fire department and the











                                                             
5914

         1       following Monday it might be a synagogue, and

         2       the following Monday it might be a different

         3       group, each group living within the law of their

         4       own license and not doing it more times a year

         5       than they are allowed but, in essence, having a

         6       gambling hall that's open almost continuously?

         7       Why under your bill would that not be a

         8       possibility?

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Because of the

        10       way the license is issued.  The license would be

        11       issued for using it at that specific location

        12       for that specific group.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  No-no, no-no.

        14       But, Senator -- no, no, no, Senator.  Senator,

        15       let's go back a step.  The way the law is now,

        16       as I understand it -- and I'm certainly willing

        17       to be educated if I'm saying something wrong.

        18       Senator, if I'm saying something wrong, you tell

        19       me.  But as I understand the law today, if they

        20       want to hold a Las Vegas Night at a church,

        21       synagogue, or whatever, they can do it at their

        22       premises.  They can set it up, do it at their

        23       premises and the license limits them the number











                                                             
5915

         1       of times a year they can do it.  Is that

         2       correct?

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  If

         5       your bill becomes a law, my understanding is

         6       that they don't have to do it at their church or

         7       synagogue but they can do it at XYZ Hall which

         8       is a different location.  Is that correct?

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Now, they contact

        11       XYZ Hall -

        12                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President.

        13       Senator Gold.  But one part here is that they

        14       still have to have the approval of the local

        15       governing body to hold that.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator, let

        17       me ask you a question.  When you say the

        18       approval of the local governing body, is the

        19       approval of the local governing body required

        20       for each time they run the event?

        21                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, and also

        22       for the establishment of the hall.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Where is that in











                                                             
5916

         1       your bill?

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  That's in the

         3       existing law, Senator, that the local governing

         4       body has to give approval.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  So, Senator, let

         6       me ask you this question.  In one of your little

         7       towns, villages or whatever, the local volunteer

         8       fire department goes to the local board and says

         9       we want to hold this and we can't do it at the

        10       fire station and there is Bailey's Hall, or

        11       whatever it's called, and we want permission -

        12       Bailey's Hall asks the local board for

        13       permission to run games for the volunteer fire

        14       department.

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  But you've

        16       reversed it.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  What?

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  The fire

        19       department asks the local government, "We want

        20       to have games of chance, and we want to have it

        21       at XYZ facility."  Local government can say no.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  I understand what

        23       you are saying, but what I'm getting at is there











                                                             
5917

         1       are different issues here.  There are zoning

         2       issues.  There are different issues, and you are

         3       the one who pointed it out a moment ago, and

         4       what I am asking you is, there is this hall.

         5       We'll call it the XYZ Hall, and the volunteer

         6       fire department wants to hold them and it says,

         7       "We want to hold it at that hall."  One

         8       question, I assume, Senator, is the zoning

         9       question, isn't that so?

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  So

        12       they go to the zoning board, and the zoning

        13       board says, "All right.  We will allow games of

        14       chance at that hall."  Now, they have approved

        15       that and the zoning issue is finished, isn't

        16       it?

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  It's still up to

        18       the Board to give approval.  Right now -- I

        19       don't know how it works in your area, but when

        20       our fire companies go to it, you will notice

        21       it's on a town board meeting that they are going

        22       to give approval for a Las Vegas Night at a

        23       volunteer company on such and such a day.











                                                             
5918

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  In other words,

         2       the question I'm asking you is under existing

         3       law, do they have to get the local approval

         4       under existing law each time they run the

         5       function?

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  No.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Then, Senator,

         8       what you said two seconds ago is not accurate.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Utilization of

        10       the facility, Senator.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator -

        12       Senator Larkin, I appreciate your courtesy.

        13                      On the bill.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Gold on the bill.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  First of all, I

        17       know that everything we say in this chamber is

        18       weighed very, very carefully, but I'm personally

        19       delighted that if I make a remark that I know

        20       it's going to be scrutinized extra special today

        21       because Senator Libous is back and listening

        22       very carefully, so -- I can only speak for

        23       myself, but I'm delighted to see it.











                                                             
5919

         1                      Mr. President, on the bill.  I

         2       hear Senator Larkin, and I think that if it were

         3       up to Senator Larkin everybody would be honest

         4       and everybody would be patriotic, and I happen

         5       to admire Senator Larkin.  But, unfortunately,

         6       it's just not the way things work, and with all

         7       due respect, I'm not so confident about every

         8       answer I got from Senator Larkin on this bill.

         9                      If you have a local small place

        10       and the local fire department, which everybody

        11       belongs to -- I think Senator Connor is famous

        12       for that remark:  You don't know what you're

        13       talking about.  You're one of those guys that

        14       thinks volunteer fire departments are for

        15       putting out fires, and everybody knows that

        16       these are great social clubs; and they do a

        17       wonderful job.  I'm not trying to put any one of

        18       them down.  But everyone in town supports and

        19       wants to do everything for the local volunteer

        20       fire department, and I can't believe in my

        21       wildest imagination that if the local volunteer

        22       fire department wanted to hold Las Vegas Nights

        23       they wouldn't get approval to do it in XYZ











                                                             
5920

         1       Hall.

         2                      I know people in upstate New York

         3       and around the place.  These are good,

         4       religious, God-fearing people; and if the church

         5       decides it might be easier because, "Look, they

         6       are going to XYZ Hall and if the hall gets set

         7       up, you know, we'll have our night" and the next

         8       thing I know, as far as I know, people get to

         9       know that you are at XYZ Hall every Monday or

        10       Thursday night, whatever it is, because it's

        11       either the church, the synagogue, the volunteer

        12       fire department, whatever, and that's where the

        13       charities are going to make their money, and

        14       when you give the approval to the volunteer fire

        15       department, I don't know how you tell the church

        16       they can't do it, and I don't know how you tell

        17       the Girl Scouts, "You can't do it," and, in my

        18       opinion, I think it causes an awful lot of

        19       problems.

        20                      Why?  Not because of the

        21       organizations; because when you start to talk

        22       gambling, no matter what happens, you're talking

        23       big money, and there are people who you and I











                                                             
5921

         1       would not like to go to dinner with who somehow

         2       or other wind up getting involved in these

         3       functions, and I have seen it.

         4                      I think that Senator Padavan and

         5       I may or may not but I think we do have some

         6       common feelings about the directions that we may

         7       be going when it comes to trying to run this

         8       state and run religious organizations, or what

         9       ever on the backs of gambling, and everybody

        10       shrugs their shoulders and says, "What can we

        11       do.  It's the only way we raise money."  I'm

        12       really at my limit for that.

        13                      I think it's dangerous.  I think

        14       Senator Larkin's motives are honorable, totally

        15       honorable, but I think it's a mistake.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Padavan.

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        22       My comments are directed to Senator Larkin.

        23                      Senator, as you look around this











                                                             
5922

         1       chamber, you see that for a variety of reasons a

         2       good number of our members are not here, and I

         3       really think this is an important piece of

         4       legislation, and I don't think anyone wants to

         5       call a quorum call or slow roll call because I

         6       don't want to, and I don't intend to, but I

         7       would ask you, as a matter of courtesy, that you

         8       might want to lay this bill aside so that more

         9       members can be here and have an opportunity to

        10       be heard and cast an intelligent vote on this

        11       issue.

        12                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  May we have the

        13       last section read, please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        15       last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        17       bill shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        19       the results when tabulated.

        20                      Chair recognizes Senator Leichter

        21       to explain his vote.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.  I think Senators Padavan and Gold











                                                             
5923

         1       made some very valid points.  What we're doing

         2       here is more and more eroding the prohibition

         3       against gambling.  Now, if we want to have

         4       gambling in this state, maybe we ought to put it

         5       to the voters.  But this really opens the door

         6       so wide to conducting gambling in so many

         7       facilities throughout the state, I think as

         8       Senator Gold pointed out, there is really no

         9       limitation or restrictions on a particular place

        10       having more than one, having in fact a number of

        11       these licensees use that facility.  It's just

        12       like having a full-time casino in a community.

        13       It just seems to me it's wrong.  I don't want to

        14       see us go towards legalized gambling; but maybe

        15       if that's what the people of the state want, we

        16       ought to do it, but we certainly shouldn't do it

        17       in this fashion, chipping away, eroding away the

        18       prohibition against gambling.

        19                      I vote in the negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter will be recorded in the negative.

        22                      Senator Gold to explain his vote.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.











                                                             
5924

         1                      Senator Larkin, I really was not

         2       going to ask for a slow roll call; but when I

         3       see the hands go up around the chamber on both

         4       sides, I really think it's unfair, as Senator

         5       Padavan pointed out very well.  I wouldn't want

         6       people tomorrow to find out that they cast a

         7       vote which they're uncomfortable with, and I

         8       really think Senator Larkin that, if people want

         9       to support this, I respect it, and there are

        10       some people on my side who are supporting it and

        11       some on yours, and some on both sides opposed to

        12       it.

        13                      So I really think, Mr. President,

        14       that we ought to have a slow roll call, or at

        15       least put it over as Senator Padavan suggested,

        16       but if that can't be, I would ask for a slow

        17       roll call on this.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Gold is asking for a slow roll call.  Are there

        20       five members in the chamber, who -- would they

        21       rise?  There are five standing.

        22                      The Secretary will call the roll

        23       slowly.











                                                             
5925

         1                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

         2       Do you want to lay that bill aside, please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Larkin, your desire to lay the bill aside?

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay the bill

         6       aside until tomorrow.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.

         8       The bill is laid aside at the request of the

         9       sponsor.

        10                      Senator Libous.

        11                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

        12       Would you please recognize Senator Larkin again

        13       for a committee announcement.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Larkin.

        16                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President.

        17       There will be an immediate meeting of the Local

        18       Government Committee in Room 332.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        20       will be an immediate meeting of the Local

        21       Government Committee in the Majority Conference

        22       Room, Room 332, immediate meeting of the Local

        23       Government Committee.











                                                             
5926

         1                      Senator Libous.

         2                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

         3       Would you recognize Senator Montgomery, please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Montgomery.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.  Mr.

         7       President, I would like unanimous consent to be

         8       recorded in the negative on Calendars 671 and

         9       674.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection and hearing no objection, Senator

        12       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        13       Calendar Number 671 and 674.

        14                      Senator DiCarlo.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President.

        16       I would like to put a sponsor's star on my bill,

        17       Calendar 732, Senate 3362, please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

        19       request of the sponsor, a sponsor's star will be

        20       placed on Calendar Number 732.

        21                      Senator Libous.

        22                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  We can go back

        23       to regular order, Mr. President.











                                                             
5927

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will continue to call the controversial

         3       calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 19,

         5       Calendar 453, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 359,

         6       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         7       relation to criminal history checks on school

         8       bus attendants.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Levy, an explanation had been asked for by the

        11       Acting Minority Leader, Senator Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  Senator

        13       Paterson, unfortunately we have discussed this

        14       bill annually almost since 1985 when we enacted

        15       a law to require -- what we did was to pass a

        16       bill which became law to require the finger

        17       printing of school bus drivers.  Omitted from

        18       that law were school bus attendants; and,

        19       unfortunately, due to that omission, children in

        20       this state have paid the price, because using

        21       Long Island as an example, we've had a number of

        22       incidents on Long Island when felons who were on

        23       parole wound up being school bus attendants, and











                                                             
5928

         1       we've had children sexually molested on school

         2       buses, including children with disabilities and

         3       handicaps.

         4                      If the fingerprinting of school

         5       bus attendants was not omitted in 1985 from that

         6       important law that had the end result of

         7       disqualifying people from operating school

         8       buses, I dare say that those incidents would not

         9       have taken place because those people would not

        10       have been working as school bus attendants.

        11       This bill cures the omission from the law in

        12       1985.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        16       Senator Levy raises an issue that has evidenced

        17       itself in conduct by employees of the school

        18       system that have manifested great harm to young

        19       people who attend our school systems, and many

        20       of the cases on Long Island I read about,

        21       Senator Levy.

        22                      My question for you is why are

        23       you asking the school attendants to pay for











                                                             
5929

         1       their own fingerprinting prior to their

         2       employment?  Don't you think that attaches a

         3       stigma to the acts perhaps of others and makes

         4       the entire class feel the burden of what a few

         5       may have done?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Levy to respond to a question

         8       from Senator Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator, we would

        10       be doing with school bus attendants exactly what

        11       we are doing with school bus drivers.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        13       what I'm interested in is that there have been a

        14       number of crimes committed by a number of

        15       personnel employed by the school system.  Would

        16       Senator Levy believe -- if he would yield for a

        17       question -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Levy, do you yield to Senator Paterson?

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  -- that it

        21       might just be a better idea to establish a

        22       standard for all employees of the school

        23       system?











                                                             
5930

         1                      SENATOR LEVY:  Senator, with this

         2       bill, we only have the power to deal with those

         3       people who come within the purview of the

         4       Vehicle and Traffic Law, and I'm trying to deal

         5       with the specific omission from the 1985 law.

         6       If somebody else obviously chooses to have a

         7       wider application of the concept that is in the

         8       law today with school bus drivers, fine.  It's

         9       up to them to initiate that legislation.  This

        10       bill is under the V&T, and it only deals

        11       traditionally with school bus attendants.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Under the 1985

        13       law, then, Senator Levy, you are restricting

        14       this to comply with the transportation of the

        15       children back and forth from school?

        16                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, it is,

        17       Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        19       Senator Levy.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 90th day.











                                                             
5931

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         5       the results when tabulated.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar 453 are Senators

         8       Connor, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery,

         9       Nanula and Santiago.  Ayes 52.  Nays 7.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 30,

        13       Calendar Number 652, by Senator Saland, Senate

        14       Print 2336, an act to amend the Executive law

        15       and the Education Law, in relation to providing

        16       security information to prospective students.

        17                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

        18       Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Saland, an explanation has been asked for by

        21       Senator Oppenheimer.

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.











                                                             
5932

         1                      Mr. President, this bill is the

         2       Security Information Act for institutions of

         3       higher education.  It's a bill which has been

         4       passed, I believe, on at least two prior

         5       occasions in this house.  It deals with

         6       providing information to college students, their

         7       parents, those who have an interest in security

         8       on college campuses, such as employees of

         9       college campuses.  It endeavors to fill some of

        10       the gaps that were left open when the federal

        11       government got into this particular venue a

        12       couple of years ago.

        13                      This bill is modeled in part on

        14       legislation that was introduced originally in

        15       Pennsylvania in response to an awful tragedy on

        16       a campus down there, which sort of became the

        17       model by which other states throughout the union

        18       have endeavored to provide more information.

        19                      Unfortunately, when someone

        20       visits a college campus perhaps in a summer or

        21       spring trip or receives the materials that are

        22       sent out by a college campus, they see this

        23       rather idyllic setting, looks sort of like an











                                                             
5933

         1       oasis of tranquility; and far too often,

         2       unfortunately, our campuses are the scenes of

         3       crimes that reflect the communities, perhaps, in

         4       which they are located or the reduction in

         5       awareness of the potential for crime on college

         6       campuses.

         7                      This bill would basically require

         8       reporting, reporting of some crimes that are not

         9       provided for in the federal legislation and

        10       would also provide some specific reporting with

        11       respect to certain security practices to, again,

        12       provide a level of comfort for those who might

        13       be interested in attending and working at this

        14       campus that this, in fact, is a safe place.

        15                      The reality is, as I mentioned

        16       earlier, that the last thing in the world that

        17       campuses are about to do is to advise people of

        18       whatever mis... criminal misfortunes may have

        19       occurred on their campus.  This is an attempt to

        20       provide, in effect, disclosure or notification

        21       to anybody having an interest.

        22                      It basically says, when you are

        23       considering whatever campus you may be going to,











                                                             
5934

         1       if campus X and campus Y perhaps are similar

         2       academically and if one of the two seems to have

         3       a disproportionately high rate of crime, that's

         4       something that you should know and should be

         5       factored into your decision-making processes.

         6                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Oppenheimer.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Would

        10       Senator Saland yield for a question?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Saland, do you yield?

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       yields.

        17                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  This looks

        18       similar to a bill I had in which would require

        19       providing the information on security

        20       personnel.  I think that this does not have a

        21       piece that -- let me question.

        22                      Is this information to be

        23       provided to anyone that makes application to the











                                                             
5935

         1       college for admission or to anybody who is

         2       employed by the college?  Will they be sent this

         3       information or must they request this

         4       information?

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  They will be

         6       advised that the information is available upon

         7       request, which, again, is the same tack that's

         8       taken, I believe, in the federal legislation.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Uh-huh.

        10       Thank you, Senator.  It would be my strong

        11       preference to see that this information -- since

        12       it's already been complied with, that it be

        13       generated to everybody who is making

        14       application.  Since we have already done the

        15       work, they should know the statistical

        16       information; but I certainly will support this.

        17       I just wish it did not have to be requested,

        18       that it would simply be available.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      Senator LaValle to explain his

        22       vote?

        23                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yes.  Yes, Mr.











                                                             
5936

         1       President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  To

         3       explain your vote or -

         4                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  I rise really

         5       to comp...

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       LaValle, to explain your vote -

         8                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  -- or on

        10       the bill?

        11                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  I was going to

        12       go on the bill, but I could just as well -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Your

        14       choice.  We're on the bill.

        15                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  I'll explain my

        16       vote.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the first day of

        21       September.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
5937

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       LaValle to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.  I rise really to compliment Senator

         6       Saland, who has put in a lot of work, has held a

         7       number of information meetings, has reached out

         8       to all parties, with the Assembly, to really

         9       bring this bill to a conclusion and a completion

        10       which it should be.

        11                      The members of the committee have

        12       worked on this bill in the Higher Education

        13       Committee, and I think it's a bill that parents

        14       and students really support.  The higher

        15       education community, I think, has warmed up to

        16       the idea that this kind of information and

        17       disclosure is not only in the best interest of

        18       the students who are on their campus but also

        19       for the institutions that they run; and I hope

        20       that this year the Assembly will embrace the

        21       Saland legislation and that we'll see this

        22       become a chapter.  I know that Senator Saland

        23       has been at it for a couple of years, and we











                                                             
5938

         1       hope this is the year it will become the law.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       LaValle in the affirmative.

         4                      Senator Montgomery to explain her

         5       vote.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

         7       President.  I would like to explain my vote.

         8                      I also want to compliment Senator

         9       Saland on this bill, and I know how much you

        10       worked on it, but I also know that since this is

        11       really not a Republican idea or a Democratic

        12       idea -- this is a good idea -- and I know that

        13       Senator Oppenheimer worked very hard in this

        14       area, held some hearings throughout the state a

        15       few years back; and, therefore, I would say that

        16       this is really an Oppenheimer-Saland bill.

        17                      So I vote yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Montgomery in the affirmative.

        20                      Announce the results.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
5939

         1                      Senator Libous.

         2                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

         3       Is there any housekeeping at the desk?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         5       no housekeeping at the desk, Senator Libous.

         6                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President.

         7       There will be no, and I repeat, no Republican

         8       conference today, but there will be a Republican

         9       conference immediately following session

        10       tomorrow.

        11                      And, Mr. President, being that

        12       there be no further business, I move that we

        13       adjourn until Wednesday, May 17th, at 10:00 a.m.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Republican conference is adjourned until

        16       tomorrow.  Repeat:  Adjourned until tomorrow

        17       after session.

        18                      Without objection, the Senate

        19       stands adjourned until tomorrow, May 17th, at

        20       10:00 a.m.

        21                      (Whereupon, at 1:32 p.m., Senate

        22       adjourned.)

        23