Regular Session - June 1, 1995

                                                                 
7086

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                         June 1, 1995

        11                         10:06 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                       REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
7087

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Members please take

         4       their places, staff their places.  I'd ask

         5       everybody in the chamber to rise and join me in

         6       saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                      (The assemblage repeated the

         8       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                      In the absence of clergy, may we

        10       bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        11                      (A moment of silence was

        12       observed.

        13                      Reading of the Journal.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        15       Wednesday, May 31st.  The Senate met pursuant to

        16       adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon

        17       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        18       Journal of Tuesday, May 30th, was read and

        19       approved.  On motion, Senate adjourned.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        21       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.











                                                             
7088

         1                      Messages from the Assembly.

         2                      Messages from the Governor.

         3                      Reports of standing committees.

         4                      Reports of select committees.

         5                      Communications and reports from

         6       state officers.

         7                      Motions and resolutions.  The

         8       Chair recognizes Senator DiCarlo.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        10       on my behalf, please remove the sponsor's star

        11       on Calendar 195.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

        13       request of the sponsor, the star will be removed

        14       on Calendar Number 195.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  On behalf of

        16       Senator Goodman, please place a sponsor's star

        17       on Calendar 98.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        19       Number 98 will be starred at the request of the

        20       sponsor.

        21                      Senator DiCarlo.

        22                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        23       on page 46, I offer the following amendments to











                                                             
7089

         1       Calendar Number 494, Senate Print 3155, and ask

         2       that said bill retain its place on Third Reading

         3       Calendar on behalf of Senator Cook.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Amendments to Calendar Number 494 are received

         6       and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the

         7       Third Reading Calendar.

         8                      Senator DiCarlo.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        10       on behalf of Senator Seward, I wish to call up

        11       his bill, Print Number 2016, recalled from the

        12       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the title.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       197, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2016, an

        17       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        18       eliminating the expiration of provisions.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       DiCarlo.

        21                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        22       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        23       bill was passed.











                                                             
7090

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       reconsideration. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       DiCarlo.

         8                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

         9       I now offer the following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      Senator Farley.

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President,

        14       on behalf of Senator Velella on page 48, I offer

        15       the following amendments to Calendar Number 764,

        16       Senate Print 2587, and I ask that that bill

        17       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        19       Amendments to Calendar Number 764 are received

        20       and adopted.  Bill will retain it place on the

        21       Third Reading Calendar.

        22                      Senator Farley.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of











                                                             
7091

         1       Senator Seward, Mr. President, on page 9, I

         2       offer the following amendments to Calendar

         3       Number 307, Senate Print 2825, and I ask that

         4       that bill retain its place.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         6       Amendments to Calendar Number 307 received and

         7       adopted.  The bill will retain its place on the

         8       Third Reading Calendar.

         9                      Senator Farley.

        10                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President,

        11       on behalf of Senator Holland, I wish to call up

        12       his bill, Senate Print Number 32, which was

        13       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        14       desk.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the title.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       565, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 32, an act

        19       to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

        20       increasing bonded indebtedness in the town of

        21       Ramapo.

        22                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now move to

        23       reconsider the vote by which this bill was











                                                             
7092

         1       passed.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         5       reconsideration. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35.

         7                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now offer the

         8       following amendments.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        10       Amendments are received and adopted.

        11                      Senator Farley.

        12                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        13       Senator Seward, I wish to call up his bill,

        14       Print Number 3827A, which was recalled from the

        15       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the title.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       743, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3827A.

        20                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now move to

        21       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        22       passed.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
7093

         1       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         3       reconsideration. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

         5                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now offer the

         6       following amendments.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Amendments are received and adopted.

         9                      Senator Hoblock.

        10                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        11       Calendar Number 736, Senate Bill 1633, I'd like

        12       to star that, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        14       Number 736 is starred at the request of the

        15       sponsor.

        16                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        17       Bruno.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        19       can we call an immediate meeting of the Finance

        20       Committee in Room 332.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        22       will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

        23       Finance Committee in Room 332, the Majority











                                                             
7094

         1       Conference Room.  Immediate meeting of the

         2       Senate Finance Committee, Room 332.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       DiCarlo, why do you rise?

         5                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

         6       I have a privileged resolution at the desk.  I

         7       waive the reading.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       DiCarlo, there is a privileged resolution at the

        10       desk.  I'll ask the Secretary to read the

        11       title.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        13       DiCarlo, Legislative Resolution, commending the

        14       Bay Ridge Community Council at the 44th Annual

        15       Dinner Dance, June 2nd, 1995.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        17       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

        18       signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The resolution is adopted.

        23                      Senator Wright.











                                                             
7095

         1                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

         2       would request that a sponsor's star be placed on

         3       Calendar Number 730, Senate 2258.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

         5       Number 730 will be starred at the request of the

         6       sponsor.

         7                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         8       Bruno.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        10       can we at this time recognize Senator Maziarz

        11       for a resolution.  Would you please read the

        12       title?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        14       a privileged resolution by Senator Maziarz at

        15       the desk.  I'll ask the Secretary to read the

        16       title.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        18       Maziarz, Legislative Resolution praising the

        19       value of the Niagara Falls Air Reserve Station

        20       and memorializing the Base Realignment and

        21       Closure Commission to remove the station from

        22       its list of bases being considered for closure

        23       or realignment.











                                                             
7096

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Maziarz, on the resolution.

         3                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

         4       on Saturday, the base -- federal Base Closure

         5       Commission is going to be meeting in Boston,

         6       Massachusetts, to consider the closure of some

         7       six bases in the United States, one of which is

         8       the last remaining Air Force base in New York

         9       State which is located in Niagara Falls, New

        10       York, more specifically in the town of Niagara

        11       in Niagara County, and I know that Governor

        12       Pataki plans to appear before that commission

        13       along with myself and several of the Assemblymen

        14       from the Niagara region to convince the

        15       commission that this base is an important

        16       employer and an important base for the security

        17       of the whole northeastern United States, and I

        18       would move its adoption, Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        20       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

        21       signify by saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye.")

        23                      Opposed nay.











                                                             
7097

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      The resolution is adopted.

         3                      Senator Bruno.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         5       can we at this time read the title of a

         6       resolution by Senator Michael Hoblock.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         8       a privileged resolution by Senator Hoblock at

         9       the desk.  Secretary will read the title.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        11       Hoblock, Legislative Resolution commending Very

        12       Reverend Archbishop Daniel Donovan, Pastor of

        13       St. Basil Orthodox Church, Maplewood, Watervliet

        14       upon the occasion of his designation for special

        15       honor on June 4th, 1995.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        17       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

        18       signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The resolution is adopted.

        23                      Senator Bruno, that brings us to











                                                             
7098

         1       the calendar.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And now, Mr.

         3       President, can we take up the non-controversial

         4       calendar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the non-controversial calendar.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,

         8       Calendar Number 164, by Senator Marchi, Senate

         9       Print 2198A, an act to amend the Not-for-Profit

        10       Corporation Law, in relation to not-for-profit

        11       corporations formed to construct, develop, plan,

        12       site, lease, operate or own municipal

        13       facilities.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside,

        15       please.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       198, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2655A, an

        20       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the

        21       timing of consideration of mortgage recording

        22       tax revenues.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary











                                                             
7099

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       402, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2314.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       423, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1987, an

        17       act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

        18       relation to visitation rights to infant grand

        19       children.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
7100

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       424, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2107, an

         9       act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

        10       relation to making a technical change with

        11       respect to conferring visitation rights.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect 90 days.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       425, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2113A, an











                                                             
7101

         1       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

         2       to authorizing the court to permit a petitioner

         3       or respondent in cases involving family

         4       violence.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       427, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2594, an

        17       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        18       relation to child abuse and maltreatment

        19       hearings.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 1st day of











                                                             
7102

         1       January.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       428, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3474, an

        10       act to amend the Social Services Law and the

        11       Domestic Relations Law, in relation to venue and

        12       termination of parental rights.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
7103

         1       592, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2261, an

         2       act to amend the Education Law and the Mental

         3       Hygiene Law, in relation to education regarding

         4       alcohol and drugs.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect September 1st.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       605, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 3540, an

        17       act to amend the emergency -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       634, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 320, an act

        22       in relation to authorizing a review of current

        23       drug-impaired driving education and establishing











                                                             
7104

         1       a public information campaign for pedestrian

         2       safety.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        11       the results when tabulated.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43, nays

        13       one, Senator Rath recorded in the negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       658, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 3154, an act

        18       to amend Chapter 564 of the Laws of 1994

        19       relating to the creation of a temporary state

        20       coordinating council.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        22       will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
7105

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       659, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3579, an

        10       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        11       the community services block grant program for

        12       the distribution of funds.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
7106

         1       710, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3904A, an act

         2       to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act,

         3       in relation to model plans or documents.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       731, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3266, an

         9       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        10       the drug abuse resistance education program.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Farley.

        22                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President,

        23       I'd like to be recorded in the negative on 634.











                                                             
7107

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         2       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Farley

         3       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         4       Number 634.

         5                      Secretary will continue to call

         6       the non-controversial calendar.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       745, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3909A, an act

         9       in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,

        10       county of Chemung, to transfer a portion of

        11       Diven Park.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        13       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        14       read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
7108

         1       747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218, an act

         2       in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,

         3       county of Chemung to transfer park land.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         5       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         6       read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       770, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4228.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       789, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 3649A,

        22       an act authorizing the town of Camillus to

        23       discontinue use as park lands certain lands











                                                             
7109

         1       heretofore acquired for park and other public

         2       purposes.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         4       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         5       read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       791, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4116A, an act

        16       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        17       to providing an exemption from real property

        18       taxation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        20       local fiscal impact note at the desk.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Lay aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside.











                                                             
7110

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is that 790.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That's

         3       791; is that the bill you wished to lay aside?

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       803, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 4635, an

         9       act to amend Chapter 993 of the Laws of 1981

        10       relating to senior citizens employment.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       815, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 1871, an

        23       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in











                                                             
7111

         1       relation to the definition of auxiliary police

         2       officer.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       926, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano,

        15       Assembly Print 2225, an act to amend Chapter 929

        16       of the Laws of 1986, amending the Tax Law,

        17       relating to the Metropolitan Transportation

        18       Authority.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
7112

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       936, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4002, an

         8       act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in

         9       relation to deleting the value limitations on

        10       contracts authorized to be let.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       946, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2614, an

        23       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to











                                                             
7113

         1       providing and maintaining alarms.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       949, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3470, an

        14       act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

        15       relation to confidentiality of records.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.











                                                             
7114

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      Senator Bruno, that completes the

         4       non-controversial calendar.

         5                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         6       Rath.

         7                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes, Mr.

         8       Chairman.  I'd like to be recorded in the

         9       negative on 926.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, and hearing no objection, Senator

        12       Rath will be recorded in the negative on

        13       Calendar Number 926.

        14                      Senator Bruno.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        16       can we at this time take up the controversial

        17       calendar.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the controversial calendar.

        20                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        21       rise?

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        23       a point of order.  We have several committee











                                                             
7115

         1       meetings going on at the point that we are now

         2       in deliberation on controversial bills and

         3       yesterday we adjourned at a point that we

         4       started committee meetings running and we had

         5       members who were unable to vote on this side for

         6       legislation to which they were opposed.

         7                      Unless we are going to stand at

         8       ease at the end of the session for a

         9       considerable period of time to give those

        10       members the opportunity to come back here and

        11       vote no, then I have to object to taking up the

        12       calendar, the controversial calendar, at this

        13       time, because it is limiting the opportunity for

        14       those who want to express their disagreement

        15       because they are attending committee meetings.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Bruno, would you like to speak to that?

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        19       we're very conscious of some of the changes in

        20       schedules for the day and for the most recent

        21       days.  I think presently we have a Finance

        22       Committee meeting.  We're trying, based on the

        23       lateness of the hour in terms of doing a state











                                                             
7116

         1       budget, we're trying to move the process along

         2       towards our date by calendar of June 15th which

         3       is our adjournment day in this house, and unless

         4       we do more in terms of committee meetings,

         5       holding sessions, we will be here in September,

         6       never mind July.

         7                      So all of us recognize that we

         8       want an orderly procedure.  We want to be in

         9       formed. We want to be able to vote and we want

        10       this chair to be cooperative in that.

        11                      But I would appreciate my

        12       colleagues understanding that we are contending

        13       with some very complex and difficult times and

        14       an extra day in keeping this budget from the

        15       people of this state is not in the best

        16       interests of the majority of the people of this

        17       state.  So that's all that we're trying to do,

        18       Mr. President, is move the process forward, and

        19       I appreciate my colleague, Senator Paterson, in

        20       his concerns and we will recognize those and we

        21       will defer to those whenever we can because

        22       we're both interested in the same things, an

        23       orderly process giving members an opportunity to











                                                             
7117

         1       vote and know what they're voting on.  We

         2       totally concur in that.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Paterson, does that take care of your concern? I

         5       think the Majority Leader has indicated he wants

         6       to be cooperative, but he also wants to meet a

         7       regular schedule.  He wants to make sure that

         8       you get home on June 16th to be with your

         9       family.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, Mr.

        11       President, that's actually a very good idea, and

        12       all we were suggesting, we're not really

        13       objecting.  The process -- as a matter of fact,

        14       the process this year has been far more orderly

        15       than at any time and we've started and adjourned

        16       and it has made it a lot easier for schedules

        17       and we'd really like to commend the Majority

        18       Leader for that, and in raising this what we -

        19       what I actually did, rather than the sort of

        20       pedantic sense of just complaining, I offered an

        21       alternative which is that had we just stood at

        22       ease rather than adjourned to give the members

        23       time to come back and cast their votes











                                                             
7118

         1       yesterday, that would have been quite

         2       sufficient.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, we

         6       will accept that, and that's a valid

         7       recommendation and we will do that for those of

         8       you that are aware, that have to be at committee

         9       meetings, and can't be in two places, we will

        10       keep the calendars open for those specific

        11       purposes so people can vote at an appropriate

        12       time, and if that doesn't work for any reason,

        13       then we'll talk about it and make whatever

        14       adjustments are necessary to accommodate the

        15       members.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will -- Senator Paterson, I assume now that you

        18       are agreeable to that, to your suggestion? The

        19       Majority Leader has indicated he will do that.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Absolutely,

        21       Mr. President, without a doubt, without any

        22       reservation -- excuse me.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 6,











                                                             
7119

         1       Calendar Number 164, by Senator Marchi, Senate

         2       Print Number 2198A, an act to amend the

         3       Not-for-Profit Corporation Law, with relation to

         4       not-for-profit corporations formed to construct,

         5       develop, plan, site, lease, operate or own

         6       municipal facilities.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       may we lay that aside just temporarily for

        11       Senator Jones, who is out of the chamber.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I think

        13       Senator Marchi is at a Senate Finance Committee

        14       also, so we'll lay the bill aside.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Would you

        16       recognize Senator Montgomery who has a committee

        17       meeting and would like to cast a vote on a

        18       previous bill.

        19                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you.

        20       Mr. Chairman, Mr. President, I would like to be

        21       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 427.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection and hearing no objection, Senator











                                                             
7120

         1       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

         2       Calendar Number 427.  Senator DeFrancisco, why

         3       do you rise?

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would

         5       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

         6       negative on Calendar Number 634.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, and hearing no objection, Senator

         9       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative on

        10       Calendar Number 634.

        11                      Senator Holland, why do you rise?

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  May I also be

        13       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 634,

        14       please.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        16       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Holland

        17       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        18       Number 634.

        19                      The Secretary will continue to

        20       call the controversial calendar.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       402, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2314, an act

        23       to amend the General Obligations Law, in











                                                             
7121

         1       relation to the liability for negligence of

         2       owners or operators of pools.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside for the day.

         6                      Senator Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I believe, Mr.

         8       President, there is a resolution by Senator

         9       Gold.  Can we have it read at this time and move

        10       its adoption.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        12       return to resolutions and motions.  There is a

        13       privileged resolution by Senator Gold at the

        14       desk. I'll ask the Secretary to read the title.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Gold,

        16       Legislative Resolution, commemorating the 25th

        17       Anniversary of the OHEL Children's Home and

        18       Family Services and honoring Ruth Schoenfeld on

        19       the occasion of her designation for special

        20       commendation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       question is on the resolution. All those in

        23       favor signify by saying aye.











                                                             
7122

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      The resolution is adopted.

         5                      Return to the controversial

         6       calendar.  Secretary will continue to read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       605, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print Number

         9       3540, an act to amend the Emergency Tenant

        10       Protection Act of 1974 and the Administrative

        11       Code of the city of New York.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Hannon, an explanation has been asked for of

        15       Calendar Number 605.

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  This bill, Mr.

        17       President, would amend the city administrative

        18       code to provide that when a foreclosure action

        19       on a mortgage has been taken to its conclusion

        20       on a cooperative building and cooperative

        21       ownership status, that instead of the building

        22       reverting to a rent controlled status -- rent

        23       stabilized status, that instead the building











                                                             
7123

         1       would not revert to rent stabilized status.

         2                      This bill does not apply to

         3       tenants who are still rental tenants.  It only

         4       would apply to the units that are cooperatives.

         5       This is designed to make sure that the law does

         6       not work in an unfair fashion and it is designed

         7       to, in essence, reverse the holding in a case in

         8       state court called DiSantis, as well as a

         9       holding in federal court, Federal Home Loan

        10       Mortgage versus the State Division.

        11                      And why this drastic thing is

        12       important? It's because every cooperative in the

        13       city and the state has been adversely affected

        14       by the status of these cases.  How have they

        15       been adversely affected? Well, the value of

        16       those mortgages, if these cases continue, has to

        17       be much less than were previously supposed and

        18       if the value of those mortgages are much less,

        19       the banks don't want to hold them, and

        20       furthermore, the banks don't want to give any

        21       further loans to those cooperatives.

        22                      Now, the net effect is not

        23       because we love the cooperatives so much, but











                                                             
7124

         1       rather we want to be fair to the individuals who

         2       purchased those cooperatives and have an equity

         3       stake in them and through no fault of their own

         4       perhaps a downturn in the real estate market,

         5       the building itself has gone to foreclosure.  So

         6       this law is designed to work a fairness towards

         7       the owners of these cooperatives.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  A minute.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Paterson.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I'm

        14       sorry.  I thought an announcement was going to

        15       be made.

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  Could we finish

        17       the bill, Mr. President, if that's possible.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  We're going to

        19       just announce a committee meeting in Room 123,

        20       the Elections Committee, called in behalf of

        21       Senator Maltese.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        23       will be an immediate meeting of the Elections











                                                             
7125

         1       Committee in Room 123 of the Capitol, immediate

         2       meeting of the Elections Committee in Room

         3       Number 123 of the Capitol.

         4                      Thank you for the interruption,

         5       Senator Paterson.  Senator Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President, and if Senator Hannon would spare

         8       just a brief question.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Hannon, do you yield to Senator Paterson for a

        11       question?

        12                      SENATOR HANNON:  That I will.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       yields.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, there

        16       are two cases that apply to this particular

        17       legislation that you're probably familiar with,

        18       DiSantis versus White Rose and FHLMC, Federal

        19       Housing Loan Mortgage Corporation versus New

        20       York State Division of Housing, and if I'm not

        21       correct, it would appear that they cover pretty

        22       much what's being set forth in your legislation,

        23       and so the only question I have would be that











                                                             
7126

         1       which would alleviate my confusion as to where

         2       this legislation goes beyond the court dicta to

         3       establish any new law that has already been

         4       resolved in those previous cases.

         5                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, this is to

         6       change that law.  This is to say that the

         7       valuation -- first of all, directly it's to

         8       change the law so that you don't have the

         9       reversion and, by the way, those cases are

        10       probably correctly reasoned given the current

        11       phrasing of the statute, but it is to change

        12       that law directly, and second, in the federal

        13       court case, there was dicta that said all of the

        14       existing mortgages on co-ops must be -- will be

        15       valued in a certain way, which had the net

        16       effect of decreasing the value of those

        17       mortgages and that means those banks holding

        18       that portfolio have no desire to (a) hold the

        19       portfolio and (b) to grant any new mortgages, so

        20       that this is a -- it is dicta, but it is a

        21       disruptive factor in the entire co-op market in

        22       the city of New York.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
7127

         1       Paterson.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         3       I'm going to yield to allow us to read the last

         4       section and allow Senator Smith, who has an

         5       elections Committee to cast her vote.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Smith, how do you vote?

        15                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Smith will be recorded in the negative.  Roll

        18       call is withdrawn.  Senator Paterson to continue

        19       on debate?  Senator Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No further

        21       questions, Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
7128

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         7       the results when tabulated.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         9       the negative on Calendar Number 605 are Senators

        10       Abate, Connor, Espada, Goodman, Kruger,

        11       Markowitz, Onorato, Paterson and Smith.  Ayes

        12       42, nays 9.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        16       Bruno.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        18       can we at this time take up Calendar Number 770

        19       by Senator DeFrancisco.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read Calendar Number 770.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       770, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4228,











                                                             
7129

         1       an act to amend the Lien Law, in relation to

         2       notice of lien on account of public

         3       improvements.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON: Just a moment.

         7       Explanation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar 770 has

        10       been asked for by Senator Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  This

        12       leg... this bill would provide for a change in

        13       the notice requirement, the filing requirement

        14       for a notice of mechanic's lien on public

        15       improvement projects -- public improvement

        16       projects only.

        17                      The reason is that current law

        18       provides that a contractor has to file a lien to

        19       preserve any type of security in the fund that

        20       is being used to pay subcontractors within 30

        21       days after the completion of the job.

        22                      What has happened in practice is

        23       that, because of this very short window, those











                                                             
7130

         1       subcontractors who are the last ones on the job

         2       site virtually have to file a lien as a matter

         3       of course, whether or not they ultimately get

         4       paid because the window is so short to determine

         5       whether or not payment is likely to be had

         6       within that 30 days.  It's an incredible burden

         7       on the subcontractors and it becomes a -- an

         8       unnecessary process if you can expand it and

         9       provide the subcontractors with a reasonable

        10       opportunity to file a lien, to make sure they're

        11       going to get paid properly rather than just as a

        12       matter of course filing a lien because of the

        13       short period of time.

        14                      So it's just an opportunity to

        15       have subcontractors have reasonable security and

        16       a reasonable opportunity to make a decision

        17       whether that lien is necessary or not.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        21       Presidents, on the bill.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Paterson, on the bill.











                                                             
7131

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

         2       DeFrancisco might want to comment on this, but I

         3       really don't have a question.

         4                      I'd just like to make the point

         5       that the General Building Contractors of New

         6       York have an objection to this legislation

         7       feeling that by the time the 90-day period has

         8       expired that the fund may have been deleted of

         9       all payments that could have been used to pay

        10       the subcontractor, so although Senator

        11       DeFrancisco is right that the original window is

        12       very small, and I can understand what he's

        13       trying to address, the fact remains that, with

        14       the additional 60-day period, you might have a

        15       situation now where the subcontractor will now

        16       be going against the contractor and you don't

        17       have any protection to the subcontractor because

        18       the funds have been deleted.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       DeFrancisco.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  On the

        22       bill.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  On the











                                                             
7132

         1       bill.

         2                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would

         3       like to comment on that.

         4                      That may be what the memo sounds

         5       like.  It isn't really what the general

         6       contractors are concerned about.

         7                      If there's a 90-day window, the

         8       only way that the public fund can be depleted is

         9       if the general contractor gets the whole fund

        10       and doesn't pay the subcontractors and that's

        11       what we're concerned about, the subcontractors,

        12       making sure that they have an ample opportunity

        13       to file the lien during that period of time when

        14       there is a fund and the only way a fund is going

        15       to be depleted is if the general contractors

        16       don't pay the subs, that the city pays the

        17       general and they don't pay the subs, and that's

        18       the problem.

        19                      They acknowledge in their memo

        20       that -- that this defensive posture, namely

        21       automatically filing liens is better than not

        22       filing a notice of lien at all.  That's fine,

        23       but it's -- it's a process that would be











                                                             
7133

         1       unnecessary if they have time to get paid

         2       properly.  It says, in other words, the

         3       subcontractor or supplier needs to make a hard

         4       business decision for each and every project and

         5       should not be concerned about the feelings of

         6       the general contractor.

         7                      Believe me, I'm sure subs don't

         8       care about the general contractors' feelings.

         9       They just want to get paid and -- and I think

        10       that these objections are misplaced, and I think

        11       it's an adequate balance and gives the

        12       subcontractor an adequate time to make that

        13       reasonable business decision that general

        14       contractors seem to be concerned about.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
7134

         1       is passed.

         2                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Nozzolio.

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Please call up

         6       Calendar Number 710.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the title of Calendar Number 710.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       710, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3904A, an act

        11       to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act,

        12       in relation to model plans or documents.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Rath, an explanation of Calendar Number 710 has

        16       been asked for by the acting Minority Leader,

        17       Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes, Senator

        19       Paterson.  This bill is, as you look at the

        20       history of it, something that has been here

        21       several times.

        22                      It has changed substantially by

        23       way of language to go along with the discussions











                                                             
7135

         1       that we've had with Assemblyman Seabrook.  There

         2       is a memorandum in support, I'd like to read

         3       just a little bit from it. But let me just

         4       basically tell you.

         5                      The bill, upon request, asks on

         6       the request of a regulated party, asks that a

         7       guidance document be prepared and submitted such

         8       as a model document, because so often we have

         9       found that not only municipalities but the

        10       regulated public submits what they think the

        11       state is asking for, but indeed it isn't and it

        12       goes back and forth any number of times until

        13       the correct kind of document is presented and so

        14       what people have asked for is a model document

        15       and the support of this bill by the New York

        16       State Conference of Mayors says quote, "This

        17       bill represents an extremely practical approach

        18       to assist municipalities in complying with what

        19        -- with what would otherwise be a regulatory

        20       mandate, and so their final comment is that for

        21       the above reasons and for a number of them,

        22       their members strongly support the bill and urge

        23       that it would be endorsed by the Legislature.











                                                             
7136

         1                      If you have other questions

         2       regarding some of the specifics of the bill, I'd

         3       be more than glad to answer them.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         7       if Senator Rath would yield for a brief

         8       question.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Rath, do you yield to Senator Paterson?

        11                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       yields.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator Rath,

        15       there is a concern that this legislation would

        16       put an unnecessary burden on the agencies,

        17       rendering the agencies really incapable of any

        18       kind of supervision.  I just wanted to know what

        19       your feelings on that were.

        20                      SENATOR RATH:  Yeah.  We see

        21       this, Senator, as actually a cost savings

        22       because the agencies as they send out model

        23       documents will not have to go through a











                                                             
7137

         1       continuous dialogue by mail or by FAX machine or

         2       however the correspondence might occur in order

         3       to get what they really need from the regulated

         4       public, and so a good deal of personal time and

         5       energy will be saved not only by the agencies

         6       but by the regulated public.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just one

        12       question for Senator Rath if she'd yield.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Rath, would you yield to Senator Dollinger?

        15                      SENATOR RATH:  Surely.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       yields.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  In reviewing

        19       the legislative history of this bill, it was

        20       vetoed apparently by a former governor in 1993.

        21                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What was the

        23       basis for that veto?











                                                             
7138

         1                      SENATOR RATH:  Well, there was

         2       some discussion actually on the floor last

         3       year.  I recall Senator Gold questioning that

         4       and there was what some people felt was

         5       confusing language.  That has been changed and

         6       adjusted along with Assemblyman Seabrook, who is

         7       the Assembly sponsor, and it appears that there

         8       is no problem with it any more.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. So that

        10       the objections of Governor Cuomo have been taken

        11       care of with respect to the language of that?

        12                      SENATOR RATH:  Yeah.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 1st day of October.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
7139

         1       791, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4116A, an act

         2       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

         3       to providing an exemption from real property

         4       taxation.

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         7       local fiscal impact note at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Which bill is

         9       this?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  This is

        11       791, Senator Dollinger.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This is just

        13       one question of the sponsor.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside for the day.

        16                      Senator Nozzolio.

        17                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        18       I'd like to remind the members that there is a

        19       Health Committee meeting at 11:00 a.m., Room

        20       123, the Capitol.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        22       Health Committee meeting at 11:00 a.m. in Room

        23       123 of the Capitol.











                                                             
7140

         1                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         2       Nozzolio.

         3                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         4       the house will stand at ease.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Before

         7       the house stands at ease, the Chair recognizes

         8       Senator Waldon.

         9                      SENATOR WALDON:  I was out of the

        10       chamber.  In regard to Calendar 605, I

        11       respectfully request unanimous consent to be

        12       recorded in the negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        14       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon

        15       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        16       Number 605.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Rath.

        20                      SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr. President.

        21       On behalf of Senator Cook, I would like, on page

        22       number 5, to offer the following amendments to

        23       Calendar Number 108, Senate Bill 1538A, and ask











                                                             
7141

         1       that said bill retain its place on the Third

         2       Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments to Calendar Number 108 are received

         5       and accepted. The bill will retain its place on

         6       the Third Reading Calendar.

         7                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Rath.

        10                      SENATOR RATH:  On behalf of

        11       Senator Lack, I would like to call up his bill,

        12       Print Number 3632, recalled from the Assembly

        13       which is now at the desk.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the title.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       397, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3632, an act

        18       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

        19       to authorizing the Dormitory Authority to

        20       construct and finance all necessary and related

        21       facilities.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Rath.











                                                             
7142

         1                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

         2       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         3       bill was passed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Rath.

        11                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

        12       now offer the following amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The

        14       amendments are received and adopted.

        15                      Senator Espada.

        16                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      On page 12, I offer the following

        19       amendments to Calendar Number 420, Senate Print

        20       Number 2601, and ask that said bill retain its

        21       place on Third Reading Calendar.  Thank you.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        23       Amendments to Calendar Number 420 received and











                                                             
7143

         1       accepted; the bill will retain its place on the

         2       Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      Senator Nozzolio.

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         5       in fairness to all the housekeeping, the house

         6       shall stand at ease pending the report of the

         7       Finance Committee.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The house

         9       will stand at ease pending a report of the

        10       Senate Finance Committee.

        11                      (Whereupon at 10:53 a.m., the

        12       Senate stood at ease until 11:07 a.m.)

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Senate will come to order.

        15                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Nozzolio.

        18                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        19       I understand there is a report from the Finance

        20       Committee at the desk.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        22       I'll ask the Secretary to read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,











                                                             
7144

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nomination:

         3                      Frank A. Nocerino, of North

         4       Massapequa, member of the Republic Airport

         5       Commission.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Nozzolio.

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         9       I'd like to move the nomination.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        11       to confirm the nominee, Frank Nocerino, as a

        12       member of the Republic Airport Commission.  All

        13       those in favor of the nomination signify by

        14       saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      The nominee is confirmed.

        19       Secretary will continue to read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        21       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        22       following nomination: Charlotte C. Geyer, of

        23       West Babylon, member of the Republic Airport











                                                             
7145

         1       Commission.

         2                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  I move the nomination.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         5       to confirm the nomination of Charlotte Geyer as

         6       a member of the Republic Airport Commission.

         7       All those in favor of the nomination signify by

         8       saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The nominee is confirmed.

        13                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        14       rise?

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        16       without any malice at all toward the nominee who

        17       I'm voting for and have read the nominee's

        18       resume, which is extensive and the nominee seems

        19       well qualified and I would venture to suggest

        20       that no one on this side feels that the nominee

        21       is not qualified, but again, I would just like

        22       to raise the point that we have very few members

        23       in the chamber.  We have committee meetings that











                                                             
7146

         1       are in process right now, and I just feel that

         2       it does a disservice to the nominee for us to be

         3       taking up this and other nominations at this

         4       time at a point that we are considering other

         5       pieces of legislation.  In a sense, we're doing

         6       two things at the same time in a seasonable way

         7       to try to speed the process as much as we can,

         8       but I think that there does come a point that we

         9       supersede our own process and actually in many

        10       ways lose the real impact of confirming the

        11       nominees, and I just wanted to put it on the

        12       record.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

        14       you, Senator Paterson.

        15                      Secretary will continue to read

        16       the report.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        18       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        19       following nomination: Thomas J. Murphy, of

        20       Latham, Director of the Facilities Development

        21       Corporation and member of the New York State

        22       Medical Care Facilities Corporation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair











                                                             
7147

         1       recognizes Senator Hoblock.

         2                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

         3       I move the nomination of Thomas J. Murphy for

         4       both positions, Director of the Facilities

         5       Development Corporation and as a member of the

         6       New York State Medical Care Facilities Finance

         7       Agency.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         9       to confirm the nominee, Thomas J. Murphy, as a

        10       Director of the Facilities Development

        11       Corporation.  All those in favor of the motion

        12       signify by saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response. )

        16                      The nominee is confirmed.

        17                      Secretary will continue to read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        19       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        20       following nomination: Anthony C. Imbarrato,

        21       Esq., of Garden City, member of the New York

        22       State Employment Relations Board.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
7148

         1       Paterson.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         3       am I -- I guess I would say I'm starting to

         4       sound like a broken record but they don't have

         5       records any more.  I guess I'm starting to sound

         6       like an infected CD, but the point that I'd like

         7       to make is that the Finance Committee, from

         8       which these nominations have arisen, is still

         9       meeting, isn't it?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I don't

        11       believe so, Senator Paterson.  I'm informed by

        12       the members at the desk that the Finance

        13       Committee has concluded its work.  The only

        14       committee meeting right now would be the Health

        15       Committee, and I see that Senator Hannon is

        16       here, so that committee must be concluded too.

        17                      SENATOR HANNON:  No, it hasn't

        18       started.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hasn't

        20       started yet, so there's no reason why the full

        21       body should not be in the chamber at the time,

        22       Senator Paterson.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, Mr.











                                                             
7149

         1       President, where are the Finance Committee

         2       members?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Skelos?

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I'm a member of

         6       the Finance Committee, and I'm in the chambers

         7       ready to vote on the confirmation.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  But isn't it

         9       true that the Finance Committee is still going

        10       on?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have

        12       the entire report at the desk, so I'm told by

        13       the clerk, Senator Paterson, so if the entire

        14       report is here, I assume that the business has

        15       been concluded.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, I'm not

        17       trying to be antagonistic, Mr. President.  I am

        18       just saying that we have members that would like

        19       to discuss this particular nomination and

        20       they're not in the chamber, and I would assume

        21       that they are out of the chamber because they

        22       were in the chamber previously and I would

        23       assume that they're out of the chamber -- upon











                                                             
7150

         1       information and belief and what they just told

         2       me, Mr. President, Senator Gold who right now is

         3       acting as the ranking on Finance, asked Senator

         4       Stafford, who is the chair of the Finance

         5       Committee, to please hold the nominations until

         6       the Finance Committee had adjourned and neither

         7       Senator Gold or Stafford are here, so I -- I

         8       just assume that it's not over, and I'm making

         9       the point because it would appear that we're

        10       just taking up nominations where members would

        11       like to speak at a point that we really aren't

        12       affording those members the opportunity to

        13       express their viewpoint.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson, you're scoring very heavily today.

        16       Senator Bruno acknowledged your first point and

        17       was -- opened up a roll call.  We're going to

        18       acknowledge the fact that Senate Finance

        19       Committee is still meeting, so I stand to be

        20       corrected, but what we would like to do with

        21       your permission would be to let Senator Hannon

        22       speak on this particular confirmation, and then

        23       I assume -- I think I'm getting direction from











                                                             
7151

         1       the Majority Leader -- that we'll hold this

         2       waiting for those members of the Finance

         3       Committee to come back to the chamber so that

         4       they can speak on the nomination also.

         5                      Now, do you have any objection to

         6       Senator Hannon speaking on the nomination so he

         7       can then go and conduct his Health Committee

         8       meeting?

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       when Senator Hannon speaks, we all listen, and

        11       that's why we are able to determine how we feel

        12       about the actual nominee.  What will happen is

        13       we will have members who are speaking on the

        14       nomination in the dark because they haven't had

        15       the benefit of Senator Hannon's speaking.

        16                      Senator Hannon has never made any

        17       records, has no CDs on the market, so we have no

        18       way of knowing what Senator Hannon really is

        19       about to tell us, so I would suggest that with

        20       Senator Hannon's indulgence, that we wait until

        21       all the members are here before we take up one

        22       nomination so that we don't have members coming

        23       in and going out during the actual nomination











                                                             
7152

         1       or, Mr. President, I've got a better idea.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would you

         3       like to hear Senator Hannon twice rather than

         4       have him return and talk again?

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Why don't we

         6       stand at ease, Mr. President, let Senator Hannon

         7       go ahead and conduct the committee, the Health

         8       Committee, and then when he's finished he can

         9       come back and he can address us and we will all

        10       be in attendance.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Nozzolio.

        13                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        14       by consultation with Senator Hannon, because

        15       it's very difficult for him to be in two places

        16       at once, because he wishes to speak on this

        17       nomination, and because the Health Committee has

        18       been scheduled to meet off the floor, he's asked

        19       the desk, the Chair, to ask this body to stand

        20       at ease until he can conclude the Health

        21       Committee agenda, so we would respectfully

        22       request we hold this nomination.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We will











                                                             
7153

         1       hold the nomination aside temporarily. Senator

         2       Nozzolio, we do have a Calendar Number 791 that

         3       there was an objection that has now been removed

         4       that we could take up if you want to do that.

         5       Also I see Senator Levy is standing.  He would

         6       like to say something.

         7                      Senator Levy, why do you rise?

         8                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes, Mr. President

         9       I was out of the chamber when the nomination of

        10       Frank Nocerino came before the body and was

        11       approved.  I'd like to the record to reflect

        12       that the nomination was confirmed on my motion.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       record will so reflect.

        15                      Senator Nozzolio.

        16                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        17       I'd like to call up Calendar Number 791.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Ask the

        19       Secretary to read the title of Calendar Number

        20       791.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        22       Number 791, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4116A,

        23       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in











                                                             
7154

         1       relation to providing an exemption from real

         2       property taxation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.  There's a local fiscal impact note at the

         9       desk.  Call the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      Senator Nozzolio.

        15                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        16       I'd like to announce an immediate meeting of the

        17       Committee on Cities in Room 332.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        19       will be an immediate meeting of the Committee on

        20       Cities in the Majority Conference Room, Room

        21       332, immediate meeting of the Committee on

        22       Cities in Room 332.

        23                      Senator Nozzolio.











                                                             
7155

         1                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         2       the Senate should stand at ease.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Senate will stand at ease.

         5                      (Whereupon at 11:18 a.m., the

         6       Senate stood at ease. )

         7                      ...At 11:21 a.m....

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senate will come to order.

        10                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        11       Nozzolio.

        12                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.  I'd like to call up Calendar Number

        14       164.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the title of Calendar 164.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 164, by

        18       Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2198A, Not-for

        19       Profit Corporation Law, in relation to not-for

        20       profit corporations formed to construct.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Marchi, an explanation has been asked for by











                                                             
7156

         1       Senator Paterson, also Senator Stachowski.

         2                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

         3       under local laws, certain municipalities are

         4       required to subject their land to certain land

         5       use requirements before starting to construct

         6       certain city facilities.

         7                      Under a parallel arrangement non

         8       profits are, by bringing it -- by moving through

         9       non-profits, they evade the application of this

        10       requirement.  The law that is proposed here that

        11       if there is ten percent or more of the proposed

        12       cost of the improvement, that it then must

        13       comply with the law.

        14                      I realize that there are a number

        15       of -- a number of entities that object, the city

        16       of New York, the Federation of Protestant

        17       Welfare Agencies, the New York State Catholic

        18       Conference, but nevertheless, I don't see and I

        19       understand that their motives are of the highest

        20       but, on the other hand, I don't see dispensing

        21       government or even ecclesiastical activities

        22       with the highest motivation to be dispensed from

        23       the operation of the law.











                                                             
7157

         1                      The law -- the law is for all of

         2       us -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marchi.

         5                      SENATOR MARCHI: -- and believe it

         6       should -

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Marchi, would you suffer an interruption? It's

         9       awfully noisy in the chamber, lot of discussions

        10       going on.  Could we quiet it down, please.  You

        11       have discussions you have to have, take them out

        12       of the chamber.

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  So the

        14       circumvention of the law -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marchi.

        17                      SENATOR MARCHI:  -- by making -

        18       going through or utilizing a non-profit agency,

        19       even though the bulk of the money is and the

        20       actual functions being carried out under public

        21       auspices is a circumvention which I don't think

        22       operates fairly, and I believe that if we have

        23       public policy governing planning, operating and











                                                             
7158

         1       purchasing and construction of what is, in

         2       essence, city facilities that they shouldn't be

         3       able to circumvent the plain and direct intent

         4       of the law.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Stachowski.

         9                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Will Senator

        10       Marchi yield for a question or two?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        12       do you yield to Senator Stachowski?

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       yields.

        16                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator I am

        17        -- I understand that you're concerned about

        18       bringing these not-for-profits into the same

        19       plans that the city goes through now if they

        20       wanted to build a facility.  However, since it's

        21       not that all these not-for-profits have a

        22       tremendous amount of problem with this and that

        23       they consider this a terrible burden and since











                                                             
7159

         1       these not-for-profits provide a tremendous

         2       service to their localities by taking care of

         3       all these different groups that they deal with,

         4       the poor people, the disabled, et cetera, what

         5       if, because of this burden these not-for-profits

         6       then decide not to build these facilities in

         7       these municipalities and just say, We're not

         8       going to build these facilities? We may have to

         9       withdraw our services and let the cities,

        10       states, towns, villages of the state of New York

        11       who desire to put this extra burden on us,

        12       provide those services themselves.

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  If we -- if we

        14       want to adopt our public policy to -- to promote

        15       the very concerns that you're deciding, then we

        16       ought to have legislation which is available to

        17       everyone.  The non-profits are exempt, and they

        18       remain exempt under this act, but if ten percent

        19       or more is -- comes from them, why not repeal

        20       the whole thing, that there is no requirement if

        21       the city is exempt from these regulations?

        22                      I don't think anybody here wants

        23       to urge that, but it's this use of the











                                                             
7160

         1       non-profit agency to escape the -- the

         2       dispositions that have been made on planning,

         3       operating and purchasing.  It just -- it just

         4       doesn't add up.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Would the

         6       Senator yield for another question?

         7                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       continues to yields.

        10                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Is this bill

        11       the result of some sort of problem we're having

        12       with the not-for-profits doing things out of

        13       code, doing things that would be considered are

        14       not on the up and up, doing things that possibly

        15       would border on illegal or some other gross

        16       misconduct situation that we suddenly have to

        17       bring them under this regulation that seems to

        18       be causing them so much trouble that they're all

        19       against it?

        20                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, there are

        21       a number of -- for instance, local sites that

        22       have been picked out for various purposes,

        23       public purposes -- housing -- and at least an











                                                             
7161

         1       opportunity under the provisions of this act

         2       that there would be a requirement to respond to

         3       a hearing and to -- but to do this

         4       surreptitiously and circumvent the purposes of

         5       the law now -- why do we put those strictures on

         6        -- on state and on the cities now? I mean then

         7       all of a sudden a device is developed that, if

         8       you just go through a non -- a fictitious or

         9       quasi-fictitious strategem of a non-profit

        10       agency, they circumvent the law.

        11                      They have -- it makes hash of the

        12       law that we have today that where a city or a

        13       public entity has to respond.  They have to

        14       justify it by -- through a hearing process and

        15       the rest of it.  I understand -- I understand

        16       your position.  I mean I'm not unsympathetic to

        17       it, but exemption certainly makes for a lot of

        18       bad blood.  Many communities feel aggrieved.

        19       They've had no opportunity to respond.

        20                      I think it's just a bad situation

        21       at this point.  There may be other approaches

        22       which might accommodate both of our concerns,

        23       but this certainly, the present arrangement does











                                                             
7162

         1       not, because a community has no way to respond

         2       and something takes place which would otherwise

         3       go through a hearing process, is plainly unfair,

         4       I think, to the resident community and that

         5       resident community is so essential to the

         6       success of any planned introduction of a

         7       facility in their midst, this is not the way to

         8       serve that purpose.

         9                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Stachowski.

        13                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If Senator

        14       Marchi will continue to yield to me for one more

        15       question.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        17       do you continue to yield?

        18                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator

        22       Marchi, maybe if you could give me an example of

        23       some sort of facilities and what it was the











                                                             
7163

         1       facility was to do that was put in, maybe a

         2       community that you represent that circumvented

         3       this process, and you can give me an example of

         4       what it was, how they did it, something of that

         5       nature, maybe I'd get a better understanding of

         6       why you'd find it necessary to do this

         7       legislation because somehow I'm missing it.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  You may have a

         9       halfway house for drug rehabilitation, you may

        10       have it for substance abuse, so to circumvent

        11       any possible objection to it, a public entity

        12       will use the subterfuge of a -- of a -- some

        13       clips here.  Plan to Move Recovering Substance

        14       Abusers into a New Springfield House Has Some

        15       Residents There in Surrounding Communities in an

        16       Uproar.

        17                      The Project Hospitality proposal

        18       to expand its traditional housing program into

        19       an area by purchasing a two-family home got a

        20       cool reception from Community Board 2, and so

        21       forth.  I have some of that are near my area and

        22       I've encouraged it, but plainly, I think that

        23       should we -- should we open the door to all











                                                             
7164

         1       state, all municipalities and to avoid this

         2       process by just going through the non-profit? I

         3       mean, that's what we're doing in effect.

         4                      It's a device, a device because

         5       the law operating on its own would require a

         6       public hearing if it's introduced by a public

         7       entity.  By merely getting a -- a not -- a

         8       non-profit instrumentality, they get around it

         9       completely.  All that -- the only bar is the ten

        10       percent here that does provide for -- for a ten

        11       percent of those circumstances where they're

        12       under ten percent, but if they're over ten

        13       percent they're -- this would be barred and then

        14       you would have to live by the law that we have.

        15                      Maybe we ought to repeal all the

        16       restrictions that we have on city planning and

        17       municipalities.  Then we would face the problem

        18       realistically and then we can debate it, but to

        19       do it by trick and device, I don't think is good

        20       government.  You automatically alienate people

        21       in that fashion.

        22                      Candor -- candor would be the

        23       answer.  In other words, cities are prohibited











                                                             
7165

         1       from doing it, they must go through a process, a

         2       ULURP process that is the law today, but with

         3       this little subterfuge, with minimal

         4       participation by the non-profit, all of a sudden

         5       they're out from under.  I don't -- I don't see

         6       any justification for that.

         7                      You want to abolish the whole

         8       thing and let the city do what they want,

         9       assuming that the democratic, small "d", process

        10       will keep it within bounds, that's something

        11       else, but this is just a device to get around

        12       existing law. It is a device to get around the

        13       plain and simple meaning of the existing

        14       statutes and laws.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Well, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Stachowski, can I interrupt you just a minute?

        19                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        20       Nozzolio.

        21                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        22       on behalf of Senator Leibell, I'd like to call

        23       an immediate meeting of the Housing Committee in











                                                             
7166

         1       Room 332.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         3       will be an immediate meeting of the Housing

         4       Committee in Room 332.  Immediate meeting of the

         5       Housing Committee in the Majority Conference

         6       Room, Room 332.

         7                      Senator Leichter, why do you

         8       rise?

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        10       on a point of information.  I don't know the

        11       extent to which this has been raised.  I know a

        12       lot of people have been talking about it in the

        13       cloakroom, but it's extremely difficult to

        14       conduct the business on the floor with

        15       committees being called all the time.

        16                      I -- I don't happen to be on the

        17       Housing Committee, but yesterday I was running

        18       around to three different committees while the

        19       Senate proceeded.  There were bills I wanted to

        20       be recorded on; I didn't have the opportunity to

        21       do it, and I would suggest that if important

        22       committees have to be held, that we recess while

        23       they have their meeting.











                                                             
7167

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Leichter, your point that you've raised was

         3       raised just about 45 minutes ago by Senator

         4       Paterson. The Chair would, just as a point of

         5       information, the last meeting that we called is

         6       going to be the last committee meeting for the

         7       day at this point, so if you can just bear with

         8       us, we'll try to move through this.

         9                      Senator Gold, why do you rise?

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, because I

        11       think that the information you gave us is very

        12       important and very significant and adds to the

        13       significance of what Senator Leichter said.

        14       Since we will not have any other meetings and we

        15       will not have this problem any more, then I

        16       would suggest that we do now, in fact, recess.

        17       We'll only be doing it once, we won't have to do

        18       it any more, and let the people go to their

        19       Housing Committee and then come back and deal

        20       with the bills.  I can not feel that the members

        21       of the Majority believe that the legislation

        22       that they are putting out, since they control

        23       the calendars, is that insignificant that it











                                                             
7168

         1       doesn't deserve full attention of all of the

         2       members, so I would suggest that at this point

         3       we do a simple small standing at ease, let our

         4       members go to the meeting and then we'll be able

         5       to return uninterrupted for the rest of the

         6       day.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Nozzolio.

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Please, Mr.

        10       President, call on Senator Markowitz in terms of

        11       voting.

        12                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I agree with

        13       Senator Gold one hundred percent.  However,

        14       since I'm the ranking member of the Housing

        15       Committee, I have no choice but to vote at this

        16       time in the negative on Number 164.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the last section of Calendar 164.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes,

        21       Senator Gold.  Why do you rise?  Senator

        22       Markowitz, don't leave yet.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, I would just











                                                             
7169

         1       say, Mr. President, that there is a technique

         2       which basically says that, if you don't like the

         3       question, you don't answer it, just ignore it

         4       and go on, so let's do it a different way.  I

         5       would, with most respect to the Majority Leader,

         6       move that we now stand at ease for a very short

         7       but indefinite time until the Housing Committee

         8       completes its work.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Do you

        10       want to let Senator Markowitz vote first before

        11       you make your motion?

        12                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  I'll yield to

        13       Senator Gold on the vote.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        15       right.  The motion is to stand at ease.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Point of -

        17       point of order.  I don't know where in our rules

        18       book there's such a thing as a motion to stand

        19       at ease, so I would respectfully submit to the

        20       President that Senator Gold's motion is -- is

        21       totally out of order.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, Mr.

        23       President.











                                                             
7170

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  If Senator Gold

         2       would request that perhaps we get a total

         3       picture of what's happening right now that the

         4       Senate stands at ease that's a lot different

         5       than making a motion that we stand at ease.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

         7       speaking to the Chair, I appreciate the remarks

         8       of Senator Skelos, and that's what I was trying

         9       to do before I made the motion. Unfortunately,

        10       the -- the Deputy Majority Leader did not

        11       respond until this point.

        12                      I don't want to make the motion.

        13       I would rather have it be the initiative of the

        14       Majority to understand a problem which has been

        15       articulated by our Deputy Minority Leader and by

        16       Senator Leichter, and have us stand at ease for

        17       a very short time.  At your insistence, we'll

        18       give you the credit. The record will indicate

        19       you get the credit, but let's do that, and I

        20       don't have to make motions. We don't have to

        21       have points of order.  We don't have to have

        22       people debating for nothing, and we do it in the

        23       orderly business way that you would like to do











                                                             
7171

         1       it.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator Gold,

         3       I'm not looking for credit, but we can stand at

         4       ease temporarily.  Are we voting on Senator

         5       Marchi's bill?

         6                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes.  We have

         7       not voted.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator

         9       Markowitz, do you want to vote on this bill?

        10                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Not if I

        11       don't have to.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Not if you don't

        13       have to.  Perhaps -- perhaps what we can do is

        14       we can continue the debate on Senator Marchi's

        15       bill.  Senator Markowitz could vote on it since

        16       it's -- it's the practice of the house on

        17       relatively non-controversial bills to continue

        18       the session rather than breaking every time and

        19       certainly if there is a major committee meeting

        20       and many of you wish to come back into the

        21       chamber such as the request was adhered to by

        22       Senator Paterson, that you want to speak on the

        23       nomination of Mr. Imbarrato, we held up the











                                                             
7172

         1       nomination coming before the house.

         2                      I think we can proceed.  Senator

         3       Markowitz can vote.  We can accommodate him,

         4       proceed with the debate of this relatively

         5       non-controversial bill, have a vote, and then we

         6       can at that point see whether we should continue

         7       to stand at ease or we can go on to some other

         8       business.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, Mr.

        10       President.  I don't have any problem with what

        11       was just suggested if that's agreeable to

        12       Senator Markowitz, other than to clear the

        13       record on one item.

        14                      Senator Skelos, you said that at

        15       the request of Senator Paterson, the nomination

        16       was held so that I could speak.  I think the

        17       record should indicate that the nominee came

        18       before the committee and before the committee

        19       meeting ended, there was an attempt to bring the

        20       nomination to the floor while the members of the

        21       committee who had an interest in the nomination

        22       were still being held out of the chamber during

        23       a committee meeting, so let's not give ourselves











                                                             
7173

         1       a pat on the back for that procedure.

         2                      I appreciate the fact that

         3       Senator Stafford was totally cooperative, and

         4       made sure that the nomination was held.  So

         5       let's forget that, but the answer is, if Senator

         6       Markowitz wants to vote now, we want to finish

         7       this one bill, that's fine with me, but I think

         8       that we ought to stand at ease after that.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Markowitz, how do you vote?

        18                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  In the

        19       negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Markowitz will be recorded in the negative.

        22                      Senator Stachowski, why do you

        23       rise?











                                                             
7174

         1                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Just to

         2       continue. I have the floor.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

         4       right.  The roll call is withdrawn. Debate on

         5       Calendar 164 will continue.

         6                      Chair recognizes Senator

         7       Stachowski.

         8                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      Just on the bill, I can

        11       understand Senator Marchi's problem and that may

        12       be very well the case in his area where people

        13       are hiding through not-for-profits to put in

        14       maybe unwelcome facilities, but it's strange

        15       because in our area, at least in my district, it

        16       seems like the not-for-profits are more

        17       cooperative with the people from the community

        18       in educating them, talking to them, maybe

        19       relocating the facility -- at least in my

        20       district that's been the case -- much more

        21       cooperative than any department that is under

        22       the state of New York.  OMR/DD, OMH in

        23       particular don't do any type of educational











                                                             
7175

         1       process.  They hold a hearing where the people

         2       that are sent there by the state of New York

         3       listen to people talk about the many reasons or

         4       problems with putting that facility in that

         5       community, and then come -- I normally have the

         6       worst of attitudes toward the people testifying,

         7       the worst of attitudes towards dealing with the

         8       local officials and the worst of attitudes as

         9       far as the best interests of the communities

        10       are.

        11                      They have -- they go under the

        12       premise which, rightfully so, the federal law

        13       now says that if you want to put a facility

        14       anywhere you want to put it, you can put it

        15       there because if you try to stop it you're tech

        16       nically discriminating against people of a

        17       handicapped nature whether -- whatever the

        18       physical challenge or mental challenge that

        19       those people have and that makes them qualified

        20       to live in that facility.

        21                      But it seems that, in our area at

        22       least or in mine in particular, we get a lot

        23       more cooperation from many of the not-for











                                                             
7176

         1       profits, so it's -- that's why I'm having so

         2       much trouble understanding the situation and

         3       that's why I asked you for an example.  So I

         4       mean I wish we could say that the state of New

         5       York would have to do a better -- better job of

         6       following the laws that they fall under and

         7       maybe have a better attitude of dealing with the

         8       people, but that's not the bill.  The bill is

         9       dealing with non-profits.  See that these

        10       non-profits are against it, and I'm not sure I'm

        11       going to be able to support this bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        13       recognizes Senator Espada.

        14                      SENATOR ESPADA:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      I certainly would like to ensure

        17       and assure Senator Stachowski that his

        18       experience with not-for-profits in his district

        19       is not an isolated experience.  In fact, I think

        20       that throughout the state not-for-profits have

        21       not only made their name in terms of human

        22       service delivery but also in terms of keeping

        23       communities intact.  Moreover, the economic











                                                             
7177

         1       impact of not-for-profits is certainly not being

         2       taken into consideration.  It would be a

         3       perceptive glimpse into the obvious to note that

         4       we have a fragile economy.  It would be worse to

         5       not acknowledge the economic contributions of

         6       the burgeoning not-for-profit sector which

         7       employs millions of people throughout the

         8       state.  Certainly not enough has been said about

         9       the crippling effect that this bill would have

        10       on that type of economic positive impact that

        11       we're experiencing.

        12                      And so for all those reasons, but

        13       especially because the impact to the community,

        14       we talk about notice and we talk about the rare

        15       exception that -- of some horror story of some

        16        -- of some substance abuse center or some other

        17       horrific thing being placed in our community.

        18       The fact of the matter is that the Mayor of the

        19       city of New York, the Catholic Conference, the

        20       Federation of Protestant Welfare Agencies,

        21       Neighborhood Preservation Coalitions throughout

        22       the state, have -- who are the people in the

        23       community with the impact on services, are











                                                             
7178

         1       telling us that it's a really bad idea and so,

         2       as we're trying to really deregulate government

         3       and down-size government, this is the worst

         4       thing we can do.

         5                      It is, I think, fashionable to

         6       take the not-for-profit sector for granted.  We

         7       would be complicating a horrific error here if

         8       we were to pass this bill and leave the market,

         9       the laissez faire attitude to prevail.  No, I

        10       think that there's enough regulation in place.

        11       The Mayor of the city of New York, through the

        12       charter section 203, already takes impact, local

        13       impact, into consideration.  This will unduly

        14       elongate that process and provide no positive

        15       yield.

        16                      Thank you.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        18       recognizes Senator Dollinger.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President, just briefly on the -- Senator

        21       Waldon, you want to -

        22                      SENATOR WALDON:  I'm sorry.  I

        23       had asked earlier.











                                                             
7179

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I'll yield to

         2       Senator Waldon, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Waldon.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thanks, Mr.

         6       President.  I appreciate that courtesy, Senator

         7       Dollinger. The kindness of the people in the

         8       Rochester area never ceases to amaze me.

         9                      Would the kind Senator and

        10       learned Senator from Staten Island, Richmond

        11       County -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Can we

        13       have a little order in the chamber?  Senator

        14       Waldon is right next to me, and I'm having a

        15       very difficult time hearing him.

        16                      Senator Markowitz, could you take

        17       your conversation out of the chamber, please.

        18                      Senator Waldon.

        19                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would Senator

        20       Marchi, the learned gentleman from Richmond

        21       County, yield to a question or two?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Marchi, do you yield to Senator Waldon?











                                                             
7180

         1                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Certainly.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       yields.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      Senator, when these LDCs are

         7       created, are they not subject to the decisions

         8       of the local community planning boards? They

         9       have to go through the planning board?

        10                      SENATOR MARCHI:  We are talking

        11       not-for-profit.  They are subject to your

        12       Uniform Land Use Review Process.  They are

        13       subject to it. There's no problem there.  They

        14       observe the law and they carry it through so

        15       that it, whether it's -- whether it's an LDC or

        16       the city of New York or whatever, whatever the

        17       municipality, they're all subject to the land

        18       review process.

        19                      I'm saying that if they are

        20       subject to it, the non-profits are not,

        21       non-profits are not subject to any of these

        22       regulations.

        23                      I'm just saying that the city or











                                                             
7181

         1       the public agency, to circumvent, has 90 percent

         2       of the money and everything else going into the

         3       construction, that I'm suggesting that at that

         4       point they -- they are, in substance, a public

         5       agency evading and avoiding the operation of

         6       existing law.

         7                      Now, we want to propose something

         8       else, you know.  It's possible that there are

         9       other answers to this, other legislation that

        10       might be passed, but today it's restriction and

        11       the public sees a process take place which would

        12       otherwise be subject to a hearing process.  All

        13       of a sudden, they're deprived of that and I

        14       think that the host community is entitled to

        15       have a say in it.  They do in all other

        16       circumstances.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        18       if I may ask the Senator to yield.  If the

        19       Senator would yield again.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Marchi, do you want to yield?

        22                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes, Senator.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
7182

         1       continues to yield.

         2                      SENATOR WALDON:  I thank you for

         3       your response, Senator Marchi.

         4                      What I'm really looking at,

         5       though, what I'm trying to discover is who will

         6       pay for this process meaning the burden on the

         7       local development corporations to conform if

         8       this becomes law.  Who will pay?  Where will the

         9       resources come from to pay for this process,

        10       this conformance, or will this legislation be

        11       amended at some future date and include in it

        12       money, because this is mandating action, money

        13       so that these local development corporations

        14       which are so vital in Southeast Queens don't go

        15       under from the burden of paying for mandated,

        16       required services to conform, who will pay for

        17       it?

        18                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, any

        19       improvement that the City introduces or -

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  I'm sorry.

        21                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I say any

        22       improvement that the City introduces, or an LDC

        23       has to -- the expense has to comply with the











                                                             
7183

         1       ULURP, the Uniform Land Use Review Process, has

         2       to be complied with, that's part of their cost

         3       of initiating an improvement.

         4                      I'm talking about a situation

         5       where they say, Well, we can get around this.

         6       We'll get -- we'll get a non-profit organization

         7       which will have a minuscule piece of that and

         8       with that device they can present the

         9       application, and they're exempt from any hearing

        10       process.

        11                      My suggestion, Senator, is that

        12       we -- we could amend, I suppose amend the law so

        13       that we're not stooping to devices to deprive

        14       people of a hearing which is implicit in the law

        15       today.  That's not playing fair with the public.

        16       If we have -- if we, together, I mean this

        17       chamber and the other chamber and the Governor

        18       agree that some latitude ought to be given to

        19       the City in these processes, well, we can debate

        20       that, but I don't see where this avoidance and

        21       evasion -- avoidance sometimes is permitted, but

        22       evasion, I think it's an evasion of an opportun

        23       ity to inform that community. I can't see any











                                                             
7184

         1       justification for it.

         2                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may

         3       continue, Mr. President.  I apologize for

         4       elongating this process in terms of trying to

         5       obtain information from Senator Marchi.  I just

         6       don't know any other way to do it than to ask

         7       questions.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Marchi, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Senator continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator Marchi,

        14       the reason I'm pursuing this is that I've

        15       watched the local development corporations

        16       evolve in the communities I serve and if they

        17       had to, from the small amounts of start-up money

        18       that I've been able to give a number of them

        19       with that thing called -- that no-no of today,

        20       member items, they wouldn't be able to start up

        21       let alone to evolve and exist, and what you're

        22       saying is that with this legislation, there

        23       would be a requirement -- there would be a











                                                             
7185

         1       requirement in the evolution or at some point in

         2       time regarding structures and -- and buildings

         3       to conform to whatever is required by local

         4       ordinance, laws, et cetera, et cetera, in terms

         5       of this process.

         6                      Somebody has to pay for that, and

         7       we have organizational structures in Southeast

         8       Queens which have little or no money, people who

         9       break their backs volunteering, hoping one day

        10       to receive adequate money from either the

        11       private sector or the governmental sector so

        12       that they can truly service, whether it be Meals

        13       on Wheels or whatever, to the people of South

        14       east Queens.

        15                      I foresee this as an unnecessary

        16       burden.  The -- are these people violating the

        17       law so grossly or are they, in fact, violating

        18       the law currently? Is that why you propose this?

        19       I'm still worried about where will the money

        20       come from to pay for the required legal services

        21       and/or accounting services and/or any other form

        22       of service necessitated to conform to what you

        23       want us to pass today?











                                                             
7186

         1                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Well, the cost

         2       of complying with building requirements, zoning

         3       requirements, this is a -- there is a condition

         4       that everybody operates under except

         5       not-for-profits.  You might want to sponsor a

         6       bill that -- to exempt LDCs, for instance, from

         7       some -- from that very same operation.

         8                      The present law today doesn't

         9       exempt the City at all.  They are commanded to

        10       do this, but by this simple device, with only a

        11       minuscule participation by the part -- on the

        12       part of a -- a not-for-profit, they completely

        13       circumvent the law so, you know, if it's a bad

        14       law, let's address it on its own terms and do -

        15       and do the forthright thing.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Waldon, you have the floor.

        18                      SENATOR WALDON:  I realize I'm

        19       going around Robin Hood's barn, but we'll come

        20       to a closure in just a minute.

        21                      Senator, these are fictions

        22       created by this Legislature some time ago,

        23       meaning the LDCs, to accomplish the purpose that











                                                             
7187

         1       they've accomplished to date.  By that, I mean

         2       it was put into law to do what it does so that

         3       it wouldn't have to be burdened with the cost

         4       that you're talking about, and what you're

         5       saying now is you're no longer satisfied with

         6       the way in which they operate and you want to

         7       change the mode or the modality or the manner in

         8       which these not-for-profits operate, but you're

         9       not giving them any money to deal with the

        10       burden you're putting on them.

        11                      I thought you said a few moments

        12       ago, Well, we could amend or we could pass some

        13       thing that would either give them an exception

        14       or perhaps give them some money.  Why would we

        15       do that in the future when you can just pull

        16       this back, amend it, put some dollars in it in a

        17       percentage fashion that will take care of this

        18       need and then we can look at it again.

        19                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I yield -- I

        20       yield to the Senator, so I might be able to in

        21       corporate my feelings here.

        22                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes, I'd like to,

        23       on the bill, I'd like to address why I think











                                                             
7188

         1       this is an important bill.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Marchi -

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  You know, out of

         5       order.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Abate, I think Senator Waldon has the floor and

         8       Senator Dollinger is next, so -

         9                      SENATOR WALDON:  I would defer to

        10       you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Things

        12       are confusing enough as they are today.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  I would not like

        14       to violate the rules of the house and the -

        15                      SENATOR ABATE:  All right.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Waldon, you have the floor.

        18                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, sir.

        19       I asked a question, I believe.

        20                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Senator, out of

        21       my respect for you, and I know that you're

        22       totally sincere and genuinely sincere about

        23       this, I'll lay this aside for one day, and











                                                             
7189

         1       examine it from the -- from the point of view of

         2       the -- of the LDC.  I -- my feeling is that

         3       their -- their participation is so minuscule

         4       it's not -- because the ones I've seen are -

         5       involve state and local agencies, not LDCs that

         6       perhaps they might be exempted, you know.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  On the bill, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Marchi said he's going to lay the bill aside, I

        11       believe.

        12                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I will lay it

        13       aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  So that

        15       will end debate on this matter.

        16                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Yes, I will lay

        17       the bill aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside at the request of the sponsor.

        20                      Chair recognizes Senator

        21       Nozzolio.

        22                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        23       would you please call up and return to the











                                                             
7190

         1       report of the Finance Committee.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         3       return to the reports of standing committees.

         4       There is a Finance Committee report at the desk.

         5       I'll ask the Secretary to read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         7       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         8       following bill, 5236, Budget Bill, an act to

         9       amend a chapter of the laws of 1995, entitled an

        10       act to provide for payments to municipalities

        11       and to providers of medical services.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll lay

        13       that aside.

        14                      There's another report of Finance

        15       dealing with a confirmation.  Ask the Secretary

        16       to read that.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        18       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        19       following nomination: Anthony C. Imbarrato,

        20       Esq., of Garden City, member of the New York

        21       State Employment Relations Board.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Hannon on the confirmation.











                                                             
7191

         1                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

         2       President.  I'd like to move this appointment

         3       for confirmation by this house and speak briefly

         4       in regard to the appointee.

         5                      Anthony C. Imbarrato not only is

         6       a constituent but has been a respected member of

         7       the community, in the central part of Nassau

         8       County for a number of years, a father, a

         9       practicing attorney, a leader in both civic and

        10       political affairs.  He's been well recognized as

        11       an outstanding individual who, I think that the

        12       best thing that can be said as an attorney is

        13       he's been a successful attorney, successful

        14       attorney in dealing with many individual needs,

        15       corporate needs throughout the length and

        16       breadth the of the practice of law and, when you

        17       do that, you get a chance to be recognized for

        18       inherent good judgment, sagacity of -- and

        19       wisdom in regard to how you practice fairness in

        20       dealing and you don't get to be successful if

        21       people don't come back, and obviously people

        22       have come back.

        23                      In addition to being a successful











                                                             
7192

         1       attorney, Mr. Imbarrato has been a legislative

         2       counsel to Senator Speno many years ago, but at

         3       a time when the entire field of transportation

         4       in this state was far more nascent than it is

         5       now.  He was also counsel to the Senate's Codes

         6       Committee, and along with a number of other

         7       important functions.

         8                      When it comes to fulfilling the

         9       membership in the Public Employees' Relations

        10       Board, this important function in dealing with

        11       the labor relations between public employees and

        12       public employers requires somebody who has

        13       experience, requires somebody who has good

        14       judgment, requires somebody who is respected,

        15       who can sit for sometimes many long hours with

        16       complicated legal issues, with complicated human

        17       issues, and to draw those together.

        18                      It has been an innovation, the

        19       Public Employees' Relations Board under Governor

        20       Rockefeller.  It has served quite well, has

        21       served quite well because of individuals serving

        22       on it such as Mr. Imbarrato.  I can't recommend

        23       anyone more highly to this body for confirmation











                                                             
7193

         1       than him.

         2                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         5       recognizes Senator Levy.

         6                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President,

         7       thank you very much, Mr. President.  It's really

         8       a genuine honor and privilege to have the

         9       opportunity to rise and to join with Senator

        10       Hannon, and I know many of our other colleagues

        11       in moving the confirmation of the nomination of

        12       Tony Imbarrato.

        13                      I've known Tony and his lovely

        14       wife Vicki, who is with us today, for more than

        15       30 years and, when it comes to Tony, as with

        16       dealing with other nominees because many times,

        17       many times for each of us when the Governor

        18       proposes a nominee we don't know the nominee and

        19       we have a resume and we get the opportunity to

        20       look at a resume or we may have a snapshot

        21       opportunity to talk to the nominee at a

        22       committee meeting.  But unlike that, as I've

        23       said I've known Tony for 30 years. I've had the











                                                             
7194

         1       opportunity to observe him, and I know of my own

         2       knowledge that he -- he has outstanding ability

         3       and he's an extraordinary attorney with an

         4       impeccable reputation, an impeccable integrity.

         5                      I've seen him in action as a

         6       community leader.  He was a distinguished

         7       elected official for many years, as a council

         8       person in the town of Hempstead and, as Mike

         9       Tully said when we were in Finance just a few

        10       minutes ago, as young prosecutors, we both had

        11       the opportunity to see him in action on the

        12       other side of the table and the characteristics

        13       that we always saw were a person who was able,

        14       experienced, a tough negotiator and he was

        15       always fair and balanced.

        16                      He brings unique experience and

        17       unique ability to this position, and the

        18       Governor is to be commended for this out

        19       standing nomination.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The chair

        21       recognizes Senator Gold.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you very

        23       much.











                                                             
7195

         1                      Mr. President, I make no pretense

         2       of knowing Mr. Imbarrato as closely as the

         3       Republican members from Nassau County, and I

         4       have no reason to doubt that he is an intelli

         5       gent attorney.

         6                      I think that the confirmation

         7       process places an obligation upon us and that

         8       obligation is not very, very broad.  It's really

         9       pretty narrow.  The obligation is not whether we

        10       would have selected the individual but whether

        11       or not the Governor is presenting to us someone

        12       who is qualified.  It may not be my person, your

        13       person.  Is the person qualified? If the person

        14       is qualified, be it a Democrat, Republican or

        15       whatever, I think the obligation is to give the

        16       Governor his or her choice.

        17                      I'm only dealing, in my mind,

        18       with the issue of qualification, but the issue

        19       of qualification for this job is a serious one

        20       in my mind. The State Employment Relations Board

        21       is a serious board and, as was pointed out by

        22       Senator Leichter in the committee, the work of

        23       that board deals with laws which have a











                                                             
7196

         1       specialty unto themselves.

         2                      There are people who apply to be

         3       judges in specified and specific courts, and we

         4       ask legitimate questions.  For people who want

         5       to be in the Family Court, what is your

         6       experience in the Family Court?  Have you ever

         7       been there?  And when people want to be judges

         8       in criminal cases, we like to feel that somehow

         9       they have some knowledge of the subject.

        10                      At any rate, Mr. Imbarrato has

        11       been involved in governmental affairs for a

        12       period of time, and one thing is very clear from

        13       his resume.  He is a very loyal Nassau County

        14       Republican, and I want to tell you that's

        15       something I respect.  I respect loyalty; but I

        16       think when you're dealing with government, you

        17       draw a line sometimes and in Nassau County maybe

        18       they draw lines in different places.

        19                      So, for example, Senator Levy

        20       said -- and I believe Senator Levy -- that Mr.

        21       Imbarrato, serving as a councilman in Nassau

        22       County, did an excellent job and was an

        23       excellent councilman and I am prepared to











                                                             
7197

         1       believe that.  Of course, that being the case,

         2       one wonders why he stepped down voluntarily when

         3       asked by Mr. Margiotta, the county leader at the

         4       time, to step aside and Mr. Imbarrato said,

         5       Well, there was a nice up and coming young man

         6       named Mondello who they thought might want that

         7       job, so Mondello got the job and he stepped

         8       aside.  That's loyalty.  Of course, it's the

         9       kind of loyalty that raises some questions in my

        10       mind.

        11                      Of course, Mr. Imbarrato was not

        12       left out in the cold because loyalty should be

        13       rewarded, and he became the counsel to the

        14       Hempstead IDA, and I guess he held that job, I

        15       think, for about ten years if I remember, and we

        16       found out some interesting things about that

        17       job.

        18                      Now, the job gives a retainer and

        19       the retainer, I think, was originally 10,000.

        20       At one point I think it was 20,000, but it's

        21       only a retainer, as against time.

        22                      The SIC, which investigated the

        23       surrounding circumstances of a transaction











                                                             
7198

         1       dealing with Roosevelt Raceway, criticized the

         2       situation that Mr. Imbarrato was involved with,

         3       with receiving an annual retainer as well as

         4       transaction fees by project developers.  Mr.

         5       Imbarrato made an analogy at the committee

         6       meeting.  He says, Anybody who goes into a bank

         7       gets charged by the bank for their lawyer's

         8       fees, and I'm sure that everybody here knows

         9       that when you get a mortgage, the bank attorney

        10       is one of the fees that you deal with and it can

        11       be a few hundred dollars, and there is no doubt

        12       in anybody's mind that, when you go to a closing

        13       at the bank, the bank attorneys -- God bless

        14       you.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  -- have nothing to

        17       do with the mortgage process.  They just deal

        18       with the closing. I think that it's a little bit

        19       different than a situation where you deal with

        20       IDAs and in, for example, the Roosevelt Raceway

        21       situation, I believe that the amount of money

        22       they got was $25,000 from that particular

        23       project.  It sounds to me like you could be











                                                             
7199

         1       having a $25,000 project fee here and a 10,000

         2       there and a 5,000 there, and that might not be

         3       too bad a job and maybe, if I was a councilman

         4       I'd want to give that up if I was going to

         5       become the attorney for an IDA who not only got

         6       a retainer but on the other side of the coin

         7       there was this opening to get project fees as

         8       the IDA went along; but at any rate he is a

         9       loyal person certainly and he did do that.

        10                      I am concerned, though, on the

        11       issue of judgment with his handling the job with

        12       the IDA, and in asking him some questions at the

        13       committee meeting, I unfortunately felt that

        14       there was a selective memory that was applied.

        15       Now, in all fairness to Mr. Imbarrato, he said

        16       that it was a long time ago and if he reviewed

        17       some records, maybe he could give better

        18       answers, and I suggested that maybe we adjourn

        19       the hearing, give him the opportunity to review

        20       the records, and Senator Stafford, in his

        21       judgment and wisdom, decided no, we are now on

        22       the road and we go ahead.

        23                      Interestingly enough, however,











                                                             
7200

         1       when I raised some other issues later in the

         2       meeting, his memory was very exact, and let me

         3       just suggest something to you.  Over the period

         4       of time the Hempstead IDA, I'm sure, had a

         5       number of matters that it dealt with.  I don't

         6       live in Nassau County or read the Nassau

         7       editions of their papers, but I would be willing

         8       to bet that, in the ten years, there wasn't one

         9       situation that had as much public attention and

        10       scrutiny as the Roosevelt Raceway transaction,

        11       and I find it hard as a lawyer that if somebody

        12       said to me, Can you remember all your cases, I'd

        13       say, of course, I can't remember everything of

        14       every case, but you mention one or two cases

        15       that I've been involved in and, believe me, I

        16       remember a lot of things about them.

        17                      In this particular situation, the

        18       people who were involved with Roosevelt Raceway

        19       filed varying financial forms. They varied in

        20       the numbers that were submitted and he didn't

        21       remember that, which is possible, and I'll take

        22       his word for it, but it had legal effect.  If

        23       you valued the land at 20-some-odd million











                                                             
7201

         1       dollars you weren't capable, you weren't

         2       qualified to be talking to the IDA whereas if

         3       the land was only worth twelve-five, you could

         4       talk to the IDA.

         5                      So on a piece of paper, they

         6       changed the value of the land.  The land is out

         7       there, nothing happened.  You changed the value

         8       on a piece of paper and now you become eligible

         9       for the loan.

        10                      Now, as Senator Hannon and others

        11       have pointed out to me and they are accurate,

        12       Mr. Imbarrato was not a member of the board and

        13       didn't make the final decisions but he was

        14       counsel, and I think it would be interesting to

        15       know whether, as counsel, he said to the board,

        16       Wait a minute, said to the IDA, Wait a minute,

        17       something smells here.  We're getting different

        18       numbers, or whether, as a member, as counsel he

        19       said, Look, if these guys change the number on

        20       paper, they qualify and we can give it to 'em.

        21                      I don't know what he said, but I

        22       think what he said is relevant to the issue of

        23       competence. I'm not going to review the whole











                                                             
7202

         1       transaction.  Believe me.  Don't worry about

         2       that, but let's get to the end of it.

         3                      In 1988, Roosevelt Raceway closed

         4       down, and it remain -- and by the individuals

         5       who got the IDA funding going to a private bank

         6       and paying off the IDA bonds, they wound up with

         7       the land and effectively had this beautiful

         8       piece of real estate in the middle of Nassau

         9       County which, at the time in 1988, the values

        10       thrown around were some $200 million.

        11                      Now, somebody pointed out, by the

        12       way, that why am I talking about this? The

        13       people apparently didn't make any money on the

        14       deal, and it didn't work out well, and I think

        15       it was Senator Stachowski drew an interesting

        16       analogy.  If you rob a bank and the bag tears as

        17       you walk out of the bank, and you don't have any

        18       money when you get finished, it doesn't mean you

        19       didn't rob the bank.  I like that analogy.  At

        20       any rate, in 1988, whenever the track was

        21       closed, after the track was closed, the district

        22       attorney of Nassau County, Dennis Dillon, who at

        23       times has been a Democrat and is now a











                                                             
7203

         1       Republican, wrote a letter to the chair of the

         2       IDA saying, under certain provisions of your

         3       lease, you can get -- you can get the land back.

         4       You can get the Raceway back, maybe even

         5       continue it, take care of it for the people of

         6       Nassau.

         7                      Now, I asked Mr. Imbarrato about

         8       that, and I said, you know, What did you advise

         9       them?  Did you tell them that they could protect

        10       that land? and Mr. Imbarrato said to me that

        11       that wouldn't have been prudent.  There were

        12       bondholders out there and to foreclose on the

        13       land would have been terrible.

        14                      Now, maybe I'm wrong but, when

        15       you have $200 million worth of security and you

        16       foreclose on it, I think bondholders who have 50

        17       million to worry about are pretty well

        18       protected.

        19                      I promised you I wouldn't review

        20       this too much, and -- and I won't. The -- the

        21       SIC mentions Mr. Imbarrato, at page 492 of their

        22       report and they mention the taking -- the

        23       retainers and the fees and questioning the











                                                             
7204

         1       practice and, in my opinion, it's a practice

         2       that is terrible, but if it was legal at the

         3       time, I can not hold that against Mr. Imbarrato

         4       and I don't hold that against Mr. Imbarrato, but

         5       I was interested in his reaction as to whether

         6       or not we, as a Legislature, should do something

         7       about it, and apparently it's a matter of

         8       philosophy even in 1995.  He doesn't see

         9       anything wrong.

        10                      But the bottom line of all of

        11       this, I must say, were questions asked by

        12       Senator Leichter because the bottom line is that

        13       this is a field of special expertise.  I am told

        14       that, at the Labor Committee meeting, Mr.

        15       Imbarrato made the comment that he does

        16       matrimonial law and, if you can settle

        17       matrimonial cases, you can settle labor problems

        18       and while I have done matrimonial work in my

        19       life and still do some of it, and I understand

        20       exactly what he said, the fact that in the heat

        21       of passion oftentime overrules the law and

        22       logic.

        23                      This is a field of law that deals











                                                             
7205

         1       with laws and it deals with complicated issues.

         2       I don't have a problem with a Republican

         3       governor making appointments of loyal

         4       Republicans, particularly from Nassau County

         5       where we all know there's a great influence from

         6       there, and that doesn't bother me.  It's a

         7       question of putting round pegs in square holes,

         8       and I believe that, based upon his total lack of

         9       experience in this field, they are picking the

        10       wrong situation for Mr. Imbarrato.

        11                      I have my own questions about

        12       judgment and how his judgment affected the

        13       workings of the Hempstead IDA, and that is a

        14       situation where it was "simple real estate",

        15       quotes/unquotes.  I have grave questions in my

        16       mind as to how he would function in this

        17       particular situation, and particularly as

        18       chairman of the agency -- of the board.

        19                      Lastly, there was a situation

        20       which involved Roosevelt Raceway where the

        21       ticket takers brought an action because they

        22       claimed an unfair labor practice in closing the

        23       track and that seemed to be the one place where











                                                             
7206

         1       maybe the county of Nassau, the individuals

         2       involved, maybe there would be some justice for

         3       the people of Nassau County.

         4                      Mr. Imbarrato feels, in his

         5       judgment, that the result which he indicates was

         6       not favorable to the union was a fair result in

         7       that situation.  I have to disagree with, again,

         8       his judgment.

         9                      So, based upon the comments that

        10       I've made -- I'm sure the man is a delightful

        11       man.  I'm sure he's the kind of person who we

        12       would all like to have dinner with, and he's a

        13       person who may be very, very intelligent, and I

        14       understand a successful lawyer.  I think he's

        15       the wrong person for this particular job, and I

        16       intend to vote in the negative.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        18       recognizes Senator Tully on the confirmation.

        19                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      As you may tell -- as I continue

        22       to speak, I'm suffering from a slight case of

        23       laryngitis and in most cases, I would not stand











                                                             
7207

         1       on my feet, but in this particular case, because

         2       of the quality of the nominee, I find it most

         3       important that my colleagues should know some of

         4       the things that I know about him.

         5                      First, I might point out that

         6       with respect to the comments made by Senator

         7       Gold, that I notice the same stenographer who is

         8       here present in this chamber was also present

         9       during the course of the Finance Committee

        10       meeting, at which I thought the nominee handled

        11       himself extremely well.  He answered all

        12       questions cogently, clearly, and with great

        13       satisfaction to me, although it may not have

        14       been satisfactory to Senator Gold; but I think

        15       what the nominee should know is most of my

        16       colleagues who know -- who have been in this

        17       chamber know that whenever Nassau County is

        18       mentioned, Senator Gold seems to think of one

        19       place in Nassau County, that great county that

        20       we live in, and he thinks of Roosevelt Raceway,

        21       and it doesn't matter whether it's a nomination

        22       or it's a building.  He says the same thing

        23       about Roosevelt Raceway and IDA if it's a bill











                                                             
7208

         1       or a nominee.  Now, we're used to hearing it

         2       and, in this case, you got to hear it firsthand.

         3                      Senator Leichter's comments with

         4       respect to the experience of the nominee, his

         5       question, I think, was well taken.  I think the

         6       nominee was very candid when he said his legal

         7       practice dealt with the field of matrimony, but

         8       he was very humble in not explaining that he was

         9       a duly elected official of the largest town in

        10       New York State, larger than many of our cities,

        11       if not all of the cities except New York City

        12       and as an elected official, he served on the

        13       board and negotiated contracts with the Civil

        14       Service Employees Association of that particular

        15       town, the town of Hempstead.  He dealt on a

        16       daily basis, I'm certain, with people who wanted

        17       raises, with people who had objections to

        18       certain things that took place in employment,

        19       and he had that type of experience in one of the

        20       largest municipalities in this state on an

        21       ongoing basis.

        22                      Is he qualified, Mr. President?

        23       I believe he is over-qualified.  He is a compe











                                                             
7209

         1       tent trial attorney, as Senator Levy alluded to,

         2       when both he and I were assistant district

         3       attorneys and the nominee was on the other side

         4       of the fence.  He was a legal scholar.  When he

         5       quotes a case, you know the case exists and you

         6       know he's done his homework in that regard.

         7                      He's someone, Mr. President, that

         8       we're fortunate in having as a nominee because

         9       he knows the workings of the Legislature.  He

        10       worked for one of our great former colleagues,

        11       Senator Ed Speno.

        12                      I cannot understand why it is

        13       that he's accepting this position, but I do

        14       believe that all of us will be extremely

        15       fortunate after he's confirmed to know that we

        16       have someone of this quality serving us in the

        17       public sector.

        18                      I welcome you back.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Skel... excuse me.  Senator Gold, why do you

        22       rise?

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would Senator











                                                             
7210

         1       Tully yield to one question?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Tully, do you yield?

         4                      SENATOR TULLY:  No, I will not,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Senator refuses to yield.

         8                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         9       Marcellino.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        11       President, I rise in support of this nomina

        12       tion.  I'm not a lawyer.  I have never served

        13       with Mr. Imbarrato.  I've never seem him in

        14       action in the courtroom, but I do know of his

        15       reputation in Nassau County.

        16                      He's got a fine reputation.  It's

        17       impeccable.  His reputation for integrity and

        18       honesty is unquestioned and cannot be questioned

        19       by anyone who truly knows the situations and

        20       truly knows the issues that have been raised by

        21       Senator Gold.

        22                      I will support this nomination

        23       and I urge all my colleagues to do likewise.











                                                             
7211

         1       Mr. Imbarrato, I think, will serve with

         2       distinction and represent this state well.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         4       recognizes Senator Skelos on the confirmation.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         6       I'm delighted to rise and join with my

         7       colleagues in support of Mr. Imbarrato as a

         8       member of the New York State Employee Relations

         9       Board.  As I mentioned in the Finance Committee,

        10       I have known Tony and Vicki for over 20 years

        11       and he certainly has been a good advisor to me

        12       politically, governmentally and personally over

        13       the years.

        14                      You know, it's very interesting

        15       and in just following with some of Senator

        16       Tully's comments, Nassau County is mentioned,

        17       and it's almost like the old Abbott and Costello

        18       movies with -- with Senator Gold, where they

        19       mention Niagara Falls and it's "slowly I turn".

        20                      We've been hearing this lecture

        21       from Senator Gold for at least the 11 years that

        22       I have been in this Senate.  Nassau County -

        23       "slowly I turn", Roosevelt Field, IDA, on and











                                                             
7212

         1       on and on, innuendos, and certainly I don't

         2       believe being fair to Mr. Imbarrato who is going

         3       to be confirmed today, I'm fairly confident, and

         4       will be a distinguished member of this board.

         5                      You know, as an attorney -- and I

         6       know Senator Gold is an attorney, Senator

         7       Leichter is an attorney -- we have an obligation

         8       to our client and often there's an attorney

         9       client privilege where we're not permitted to

        10       answer certain questions which I'm sure Senator

        11       Gold and Senator Leichter respect the attorney

        12       client privilege, but we have an obligation to

        13       make certain recommendations as attorneys to our

        14       client and then the client makes a decision.

        15                      The IDA, which Senator Gold

        16       neglected to mention, is an independent body

        17       that made decisions.  Mr. Imbarrato is not the

        18       one that made any decisions concerning the IDA's

        19       functioning; the board makes the decisions.

        20                      Tony is a bright attorney.  He

        21       has experience, as Mike mentioned, as a town

        22       board member of the largest township in this

        23       nation, larger than 12 or 13 states, thousands











                                                             
7213

         1       of employees that he was involved with,

         2       negotiations, having contracts established with

         3       the town of Hempstead, and certainly like any

         4       attorney, he has -- or bright attorneys, he has

         5       the ability to understand an issue, research an

         6       issue and then be learned on that issue; and

         7       certainly with all of his experience as an

         8       attorney, as a town official, no question in my

         9       mind that he will be a distinguished member of

        10       the New York State Employment Relations Board.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Leichter.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Mr.

        14       President, my colleagues, I have never met Mr.

        15       Imbarrato before today.  I found him very

        16       engaging.  I found him very intelligent, and I

        17       think he was forthright in answering questions

        18       that were posed to him, but the one question

        19       that he answered -- and I'm sure he answered it

        20       very honestly, which is going to determine my

        21       vote on the confirmation -- when I asked him

        22       what experience have you had in Employment Law,

        23       in Labor Relations Law, and I think his answer











                                                             
7214

         1       was "None".

         2                      Now, Senator Tully, who's, as we

         3       all know, an extremely skillful debater and also

         4       Senator Skelos, have brought in suddenly, "Well,

         5       he was very active on the town board negotiating

         6       contracts," and so on.  The nominee didn't

         7       mention anything of that sort, but even if

         8       that's the case -- and I accept there's probably

         9       a certain bit of self-effacement on the part of

        10       the nominee, but I assume that as a member of

        11       the town board he was involved to some extent in

        12       reviewing contracts; and we, as members of the

        13       Legislature, in some -- we have some

        14       responsibility for labor relations too, but let

        15       me tell you, my friends, that Labor Law and

        16       Employment Law in the last ten, fifteen years

        17       has become such a complex specialty.  I know

        18       because I was involved in a situation -- my firm

        19       where we have some people handle employment law

        20        -- and I sat in on a meeting and, frankly, I

        21       understood nothing.

        22                      Now, Senator Tully goes back to

        23       my days as a lawyer.  We used to believe that if











                                                             
7215

         1       you have a law degree, by God, there isn't a

         2       legal question that you can't handle, and maybe

         3       that was true some years ago, but let me tell

         4       you, Senator Skelos, it isn't a matter now, "Oh,

         5       well, now I'm going to do employment law.  I'll

         6       just open the books.  I'll look up cases.  I'll

         7       look under "E", employment law, and read a few

         8       cases and I can handle this field."

         9                      You can't.  It's an extremely

        10       complex, intricate field, and I am concerned

        11       that we have here a nominee who has back- ground

        12       whatsoever in this particular field, I'm sorry

        13       to say, but I've seen this Governor send up

        14       nominees, frankly, whose main qualification

        15       seems to be their activity within the Republican

        16       Party.  While that should never bar anybody -

        17       and some activity in political parties can be

        18       very useful in government, but when you are

        19       appointed to a position that requires

        20       experience, knowledge, skill in a specialized

        21       area, it's just not enough to say, "Well, this

        22       was a person who was extremely active in the

        23       Republican Party in his community.  He's a











                                                             
7216

         1       bright lawyer." That's just not enough.

         2                      We have an obligation here to

         3       advise and consent, and I think that consent has

         4       to be exercised judiciously, carefully, with

         5       constraint, but it can't become a dead letter.

         6       We're not a rubber stamp here.

         7                      It's not enough for me, frankly,

         8       that my colleagues from Nassau County get up and

         9       say this is a person of integrity, veracity,

        10       good intentions.  I would assume that, and I

        11       accept that from what you say, and I can think

        12       of a number of positions where this particular

        13       nominee would probably be very well qualified

        14       because of these human characteristics and the

        15       experience in the community and politics that he

        16       has, but we better look at his experience in

        17       this particular field, and there the experience

        18       he stated in a very honest manner is nil.  It

        19       just doesn't exist.  He's just not qualified for

        20       this position.

        21                      I understand what Senator Gold

        22       said on the ques... the issues relating to

        23       Roosevelt Raceway and the judgment of this











                                                             
7217

         1       nominee, and I think it's a close question, and

         2       if that were the only issue, I don't know how I

         3       would vote on this nomination; but when the

         4       issue becomes background, experience, knowledge,

         5       I don't think anybody can say this is a

         6       qualified nominee.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         8       recognizes Senator Dollinger on the

         9       confirmation.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President, I haven't met Mr. Imbarrato and I

        12       wasn't at the Finance Committee.  I don't

        13       believe that the activities on behalf of the

        14       Republican Party disqualify any nominee.  We

        15       have approved several judges in the last couple

        16       of weeks who were active in the Republican Party

        17       who might not have views that mirrored mine, but

        18       they were qualified for the positions.

        19                      I am most troubled by the point

        20       that Senator Leichter made, and that is, if you

        21       had a case that you were going to litigate

        22       before the Public Employees Relation Board, if

        23       you were a client and you went to Mr. Imbarrato











                                                             
7218

         1       and said, "We need to litigate this case before

         2       the Public Employees Relation Board; we need a

         3       labor practitioner who knows public sector labor

         4       law,"  my question is, would you hire Mr.

         5       Imbarrato?  And I think he rightfully -

         6       right...

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Stafford -- excuse me, Senator Dollinger.

         9                      Senator Stafford, why do you

        10       rise?

        11                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I try never to

        12       interrupt anyone, but I'm sure that the speaker

        13       would want to be corrected.  This is not the

        14       Public Employees Review Board.  It's the oppo

        15       site; it's in the private sector.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This is the

        17       State Employment Relations Board, correct?

        18       Okay.  Excuse me.

        19                      The question becomes -- even if

        20       that were the case, would you hire Mr. Imbarrato

        21       to do this job, a job to litigate in front of

        22       this board?  Does he have the qualifications?  I

        23       think through his own mouth -- and I appreciate











                                                             
7219

         1       his candor -- I think he rightfully so said, "I

         2       don't do this work.  I'm a matrimonial lawyer.

         3       I divorce people.  I go through the difficult,

         4       complicated, particular issues involved in a

         5       divorce," whether it's devolution of property

         6       and divvying up the estate or handling child

         7       custody -- very, very complicated issues, all of

         8       which he sounds like a very excellent

         9       practitioner in.

        10                      The question is, is he a

        11       practitioner in this particular area?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Excuse

        13       me, Senator Dollinger.

        14                      Senator Skelos, why do you rise?

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        16       would Senator Dollinger yield for a question?

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER;  I will, Mr.

        18       President, after I'm finished.  I'm just going

        19       to be a short second.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        21       right.  He will.

        22                      Senator Mendez, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I was wondering











                                                             
7220

         1       if you would just yield for one question in

         2       reference to what you're saying.  It's sort of a

         3       clarification.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I would,

         5       Senator, but I'd appreciate it if I could finish

         6       my statement, then I'd be glad to.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Senator refuses to yield at this time, Senator

         9       Mendez.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President, it seems as though there's a

        12       complicated series of specialty issues that

        13       could come before this board which Mr. Imbarrato

        14       has acknowledged that he has no experience in,

        15       so it seems to me that there may be complicated

        16       issues that may arise in the Governor's agenda

        17       for the future.  There may be complicated issues

        18       that we face as we change from an agenda set by

        19       an administration to an agenda set by this

        20       administration with respect to employment law.

        21                      There are going to be very

        22       complicated and very, perhaps, cutting edge

        23       issues; and yet we have a nominee who is a good











                                                             
7221

         1       man, who he has done good things both as a

         2       Republican and as a community service who may be

         3       qualified to do all kinds of things in this

         4       state.  He may be qualified to sit on all kinds

         5       of boards but, I think, by his own admission, he

         6       is not qualified to sit on this one.

         7                      I think we need some level of

         8       competence from nominees to particular specialty

         9       positions, and under those circumstances I think

        10       that this kind of Labor Law practice requires

        11       someone who has experience in this area and,

        12       therefore, I'm prepared to vote no.

        13                      Senator Mendez, I believe I

        14       should yield in protocol to Senator Skelos.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Skelos, are you asking Senator Dollinger to

        17       yield?

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator

        19       Dollinger, there's a -- often with attorneys,

        20       legislators, perhaps yourself, there's a desire

        21       to become a judge some day, be a Supreme Court

        22       judge.  If you become a Supreme Court judge,

        23       they handle a whole gamut of types of cases.











                                                             
7222

         1                      Would you say that any Supreme

         2       Court judge that perhaps did not actively

         3       practice a certain area of the law would totally

         4       be disqualified to hear cases that a Supreme

         5       Court judge would hear?

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  In response,

         7       Mr. President, I think that any judge ought to

         8       have trial experience.  You ought to know what

         9       goes on in a courtroom.  You ought to know how

        10       to make decisions in a courtroom.  He ought to

        11       have some familiarity with negligence law, with

        12       family matrimonial decisions.  He ought to have

        13       a broad base of legal expertise so that he can

        14       handle issues that come before him as a judge.

        15                      It seems to me that that's

        16       exactly what you would want from someone who

        17       sits on the Employment Relations Board.  You

        18       would want some broad experience in labor law so

        19       that they would know the issues, they would have

        20       some familiarity with the issues, as they come

        21       before them.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Skelos, why do you rise?











                                                             
7223

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe that,

         2       Senator Dollinger, it was pointed out, both on

         3       the floor and at the Finance Committee, that Mr.

         4       Imbarrato, as a town councilman of the largest

         5       township in this nation, larger than perhaps 12

         6       or 13 states, where the town board members, the

         7       supervisor are actively involved in negotiating

         8       union contracts, dealing with employees on an

         9       annual basis, thousands of employees, that

        10       certainly there is an experience, a more

        11       practical experience, that Senator -- that Mr.

        12       Imbarrato does have; and you take into account

        13       his abilities as an attorney, the fact that he's

        14       a bright, articulate person, I think that's more

        15       than sufficient in terms of the worldliness you

        16       would require of Supreme Court judges, for him

        17       to serve on this board.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        19       President, I'd just point out, I guess, in

        20       response to that, if we were looking for a labor

        21       practitioner, someone who would handle labor law

        22       cases, we wouldn't go to a matrimonial lawyer.

        23                      This is a position where the











                                                             
7224

         1       familiarity of those base issues, I think, is

         2       critically important in handling these cases.

         3       This is why the issue of competence -- it's not

         4       an issue of his capabilities as a lawyer, his

         5       capabilities as a person.  It appears as though,

         6       based on his resume, he's performed -- and I

         7       understand Senator Gold may have some questions,

         8       but my evidence is -- and I take the testi

         9       monials of both Senator Tully and Senator Levy,

        10       that this man has good skills, that this man's

        11       an intelligent man.  I don't hold any of that

        12       against him.

        13                      The question is whether he is

        14       specifically competent for this particular

        15       position and it seems to me that the Governor

        16       probably has a whole choice of people who are

        17       also good Republicans with the same good

        18       community base that Mr. Imbarrato has that would

        19       be well qualified for this position.

        20                      Now I'll yield to Senator Mendez.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Mendez, Senator Dollinger yields.

        23                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
7225

         1       President.

         2                      Senator Dollinger, would you say

         3       that a lawyer who is in private practice and

         4       goes to court, has clients that are either

         5       workers or employers that have practiced law in

         6       the labor area by representing clients that are

         7       either workers or employers, would that -- would

         8       that be experience?  Would you say that that

         9       person is an experienced lawyer in the labor

        10       field if that person has done that consistently

        11       in big quantities?

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        13       President, I would say that a lawyer who

        14       represents employees in relationships and in

        15       litigation with their employer, whether it's

        16       unfair labor practice charges or grievances and

        17       arbitrations, discrimination cases, all those

        18       relationships that relate to employment is just

        19       the kind of foundation that this position needs,

        20       and I think that someone with those

        21       qualifications would be well qualified for this

        22       position.

        23                      The problem is that someone who











                                                             
7226

         1       has a matrimonial background is dealing with a

         2       very different set of issues -- legal issues.

         3                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  This is the

         4       point of clarification that I wanted to make.

         5                      I was in the Finance Committee.

         6       The nominee was asked, "Have you practiced Labor

         7       Law?"  And he said -- being in his private

         8       practice, and he said, "I practice matrimonial

         9       law.  However," he also added, "I have

        10       represented workers and employers" in cases of

        11       the clients that he has, so that it appears that

        12       that specific detail that he had practiced law

        13       representing clients on both sides of being -

        14       being -- whether it be employers or workers has

        15       been lost in our arguments, and I felt it was

        16       very important to clarify that aspect of him,

        17       because the point that you're making is a good

        18       one.

        19                      I understand by -- and everybody

        20       has stated so here, and I was in the -- in the

        21        -- in the Finance Committee meeting and every

        22       body says that he is a very brilliant lawyer,

        23       vast legal -- great legal mind and everything











                                                             
7227

         1       else, but the issue of -- I'm referring to just

         2       the issue of qualifications, based only on

         3       having practiced, let's say, just matrimonial

         4       law versus the other, I wanted, Mr. President

         5       and Senator Dollinger, to clarify that point,

         6       because otherwise you will be very unfair to the

         7       nominee.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.  I'd

         9       just point out for the benefit of Senator

        10       Mendez, divorcing someone from their spouse and

        11       defending them when they're terminated from

        12       their employer are two very different legal

        13       circumstances.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  That's why I'm

        15       clarifying the situation, so we know why this

        16       man is being approved or disapproved as the

        17       nominee of the Governor would, in fact, be given

        18       a fair chance, because he has practiced law but

        19       as a private lawyer, not only just matrimonial

        20       law.  I think that I have to make that

        21       clarification.

        22                      Thank you.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.











                                                             
7228

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Leichter.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         4       if Senator Mendez would be good enough to

         5       yield -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Actually,

         7       Senator Mendez didn't have the floor.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But I'm -- I'm

         9        -- I'm asking her now to yield.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Mendez, do you yield to Senator Leichter?

        12                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Senator yields.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I was

        16       interested in what you had to say, because I was

        17       the one who asked the nominee about his back

        18       ground and you seem to have heard something that

        19       nobody else heard, which is very interesting and

        20       may be useful because you seem to know things

        21       that nobody else heard.  You seem to have heard

        22       things that the nominee didn't say, and maybe

        23       you had some other information -- that's what I











                                                             
7229

         1       want to ask you, Senator -- that you could help

         2       us on, because we have a transcript here.  We

         3       have a record here, Senator, and we're going to

         4       look at the record -

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  What do you

         6       question -

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Let me finish,

         8       please.  Let me finish.  Let me finish,

         9       Senator.

        10                      We're going to look at the -- at

        11       the record, the transcript.

        12                      Now, are you telling this body

        13       that in the Finance Committee that this nominee

        14       said, "I have represented workers in court, in

        15       employer/employee disputes"?

        16                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I am saying,

        17       yes, that you -- somebody -- especially you, did

        18       ask the gentleman -- was it you who asked the

        19       question to him -

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  -- as to whether

        22       or not he had practiced labor law, and he said,

        23       "No, matrimonial law," but then he added -- and











                                                             
7230

         1       this is -- look, I know that with the years all

         2       of us get a little bit with a -- some loss of

         3       hearing.  I think that in this case, yours is

         4       going to be greater than mine -- and he added

         5       that he had represented workers and employers as

         6       his clients.

         7                      That's what I had -- maybe we

         8       could ask some of the other people that were in

         9       the Finance Committee to see if they heard the

        10       same.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, Mr.

        12       President -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You're

        14       asking Senator Mendez to continue to yield?

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator Mendez

        16       to yield.

        17                      Senator, I think that I had a

        18       loss of hearing.  I think the one thing that

        19       hasn't happened to me with age is that my

        20       imagination has grown and that I hear things

        21       that weren't said and, in fact, Senator, I did

        22       do exactly what you said.  I asked a couple

        23       members who were in the Finance Committee to











                                                             
7231

         1       check my recollection and they did not hear what

         2       you said.  I thought it was interesting that

         3       those people on the other side of the aisle,

         4       Senator, who were -- who know this nominee and

         5       who were defending his background, his record,

         6       never mentioned what you thought you heard.  So

         7       maybe it's a matter of my hearing or maybe it's

         8       a matter of your imagination.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  But my -- my -

        10       my imagination, Senator Leichter, does not work

        11       overtime.  You're worse because you are such a

        12       creative person, is all the time in high gear

        13       and working overtime, and we all appreciate that

        14       enormously.

        15                      I think that there is a record

        16       over there and I think that we have to check a

        17       little -- maybe we could ask the nominee.

        18                      Did you hear that?  Excuse me.

        19       I'm going to check, Mr. President, with some of

        20       the other members that were there.  I heard it.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Gold, why do you rise?











                                                             
7232

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  I just want

         2       to make a few comments, if I may.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Wait just

         4       a minute.  Senator Mendez had the floor.  Can we

         5       just wait until she confirms the conversation

         6       and then -

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Paterson, why do you rise?

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I -- I just

        11       wanted to know, Mr. President, who had the

        12       floor.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Mendez has the floor right now.  I have been

        15       reserving it for her, then we're going to go to

        16       Senator Gold.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Mendez, would you like to continue?  Senator

        20       Mendez, would you like to continue on the floor

        21       or would you waive at this time?

        22                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
7233

         1       Mendez has the floor.

         2                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President,

         3       he said -- he first answered the question by

         4       saying that he had -- was practicing matrimonial

         5       law, and then he added and he said that he had

         6       represented in court employers and workers, but

         7       I was told now nothing -- not specifically in

         8       labor disputes; but he, in fact, did say that he

         9       had clients -- clients, employers and workers,

        10       maybe on other matters but not on labor

        11       disputes.

        12                      Is that an accurate description?

        13       Yes.

        14                      So, Mr. President, I just wanted

        15       for the record to have it straightened out that

        16       it is not a question of -- of hearing what has

        17       not been said.  It is not a question of having a

        18       superactive imagination.  It is a question of

        19       pursuing the subject matter to clarify -- to

        20       clarify the situation, and my intervention here

        21       was precisely in an effort to clarify that

        22       situation that appeared to be -- to me to be -

        23       to being given more attention than all the other











                                                             
7234

         1       qualities that the gentleman -- experiences in

         2       the world of work that the gentleman has shown

         3       in his resume.

         4                      Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Gold on the confirmation.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you very

         8       much.

         9                      I just wanted to clarify

        10       something that Senator Dollinger was dealing

        11       with, and I think, well -- but I want to expand,

        12       because Senator Skelos left a very unfair

        13       impression.

        14                      If someone is elected to the

        15       Supreme Court, Senator Skelos, after that is

        16       done, they go to work in the particular

        17       department, in a particular area, and there are

        18       administrative judges, and just so you know,

        19       Senator Skelos, it is the practice in many

        20       areas, certainly the ones that I know about in

        21       the City, where if there is a condemnation case,

        22       it goes to one judge, because that is an area

        23       which is his specialty, and there is one judge.











                                                             
7235

         1                      There are areas in the city of

         2       New York where they have special calendars for

         3       cases involving the city of New York, and it

         4       goes to one judge.

         5                      There are cases that deal in a

         6       very complicated field called matrimonial law,

         7       which this nominee knows very well, and this

         8       nominee can tell you, Senator, that in many

         9       areas there are one or two, maybe three, if the

        10       case loads are very large, judges that take the

        11       burden of the matrimonial calendar and they

        12       develop a certain expertise.

        13                      There are judges, Supreme Court

        14       judges, who are assigned almost permanently to

        15       the criminal calendars of that particular

        16       department or district, and there are judges who

        17       you wouldn't let near a criminal case and they

        18       don't want to be near a criminal case, and

        19       although they are elected Supreme Court judges

        20       and can do any case, they only do civil cases.

        21                      Now, in electing a Supreme Court

        22       judge, we elect a judge into a system where

        23       there is an administrative judge who will then











                                                             
7236

         1       find the niche for the judge for the best

         2       interests of society, but that's not what's

         3       happening here.  We're -- we're asked to confirm

         4       someone to be, in effect, a judge in a very

         5       specific area, and once we confirm this nominee

         6       we can't take him and say, "Well, all right.  He

         7       was confirmed, but we're going to put him in the

         8       matrimonial part of the State Employment

         9       Relations Board."  There is no matrimonial part

        10       to that board.

        11                      Not only that, it hasn't been

        12       mentioned yet, but the Governor says he will

        13       make this individual the chair, which means not

        14       only will someone who very candidly says he has

        15       no experience will be acting in a judicial

        16       capacity, he's going to be the head, and he is

        17       going to be leading people in an area of which

        18       he knows not.

        19                      Now, that is nuts.

        20                      Now, Senator Levy and Senator

        21       Hannon and Senator Tully say that the individual

        22       is a man of integrity.  If that is true, listen

        23       to him.  If he tells you he has no experience,











                                                             
7237

         1       isn't that enough?

         2                      And his experience does not come

         3       from the machinations of Senator Skelos and

         4       Senator Tully who say, "Well, you know, if you

         5       were on the board, you had to do this and you

         6       had to do that."

         7                      If the nominee is as bright as

         8       you say, if the nominee is as -- a person of the

         9       highest integrity, accept his answer.  Accept

        10       his answer.  He knows nothing of this field.  He

        11       is in the wrong cubicle, and we should free him

        12       of that impediment and vote no.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        14       recognizes Senator Levy.

        15                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  Thank you

        16       very much, Mr. President.

        17                      I think that the analogy that

        18       Senator Skelos raised with the Supreme Court

        19       judge really goes right to the core of the

        20       discussion here, Senator Gold, and using myself

        21       as an example and evaluating what you said, I

        22       have to say that at times -- at times all of us

        23       become very, very parochial; and when -- when











                                                             
7238

         1       you talk in terms of the judiciary and how it

         2       operates in the city of New York, we certainly

         3       can't say that that's the way the judiciary

         4       operates all throughout the state of New York

         5       where you don't have a huge judiciary.

         6                      I have to say, I'm sure some of

         7       my colleagues from upstate that don't have the

         8       luxury of the talent bank that we have on Long

         9       Island, that you have in the City, that sits on

        10       a court, that they don't have -- Senator

        11       Stafford, I was saying in terms of numbers -- in

        12       terms of numbers, we can go, Senator Gold, to

        13       parts of this state where we have elected

        14       Supreme Court justices who have on occasion come

        15       before them the most complicated, involved,

        16       complex matters that they never, ever have had

        17       any experience, and I'm sure we can look at the

        18       record and see judicial determinations by good

        19       lawyers who have no experience in a field that

        20       will stand as it relates the logic and fairness

        21       and quality with any decision, not only in the

        22       state, but anywhere in the country, and that's

        23       really what we're talking about here.











                                                             
7239

         1                      I've heard -- I've heard in

         2       listening to some of the remarks that were made

         3       on this floor, at one point, there was some that

         4       tried to -- tried to hold the nominee to the

         5       standard of making decisions when he wasn't even

         6       a member of the IDA board but merely the lawyer

         7       for the board and they were his client.

         8                      This discussion that we've had

         9       here this afternoon, we really -- take a look at

        10       what we're talking about.  It would almost

        11       appear that the argument against the nominee is

        12       based upon a set of facts that really is not a

        13       true set of facts, and that is, Mr. Imbarrato

        14       has been nominated to a board.  He's not -- he

        15       hasn't been nominated to a position where he is

        16       the only person that is going to serve in that

        17       position.  There is a board.  The board has a

        18       qualified staff; and as I sat and I listened to

        19       the discussion here, I thought of the field that

        20       I have responsibility for.

        21                      I will be happy to yield when I'm

        22       finished, Senator Gold.

        23                      My responsibility is











                                                             
7240

         1       transportation, and I have worked with chairs

         2       who have served as -- served as Commissioners of

         3       Transportation in this state, and let me just -

         4       let me just tell you about three of them:

         5                      Number 1, Jim LaRocca.  Jim

         6       LaRocca was a fine Commissioner of Transporta

         7       tion, never did anything whatsoever in the

         8       transportation field.

         9                      John Egan.  I have to tell you

        10       that before -- before our colleague, Senator

        11       Daly, was nominated to be the Commissioner of

        12       Transportation, I hoped that John Egan stayed on

        13       as Commissioner of Transportation, and the man

        14       had never done anything or had any experience in

        15       the field of transportation, and I have to tell

        16       you when you look back at his record, albeit it

        17       was over a short period of time, he goes down in

        18       history as one of the finest Commissioners of

        19       Transportation that we've had in this state and

        20       he had no experience whatsoever in that field.

        21                      And the same thing with our own

        22       friend and colleague, Senator Daly, who is now

        23       the Commissioner of Transportation, no exper











                                                             
7241

         1       ience in the field and he's doing an outstanding

         2       job.

         3                      The bottom line is -

         4       particularly when you have a board of the scope

         5       of the board that this nominee has been nomin

         6       ated to serve on, the bottom line is, are you

         7       dealing with a person of ability, a person of

         8       experience, a person who has been a negotiator,

         9       and the key quality is, is that person fair?  Is

        10       that person balanced as to all of those

        11       qualities?

        12                      I have to tell you, on my

        13       experience, enthusiastically, this nominee has

        14       all of these qualities, and we'll look back

        15       after he's confirmed and on the job that he

        16       does, I'm sure they are going to think of him

        17       the same way that we think about John Egan and

        18       the job that he did in Transportation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       I am listening to this discussion and I think

        23       that some of the points that have been made have











                                                             
7242

         1       been a little bit misunderstood.

         2                      The actual ability of the

         3       individual who's being nominated is not a

         4       question here, and I think that Senator Gold has

         5       stated that and restated that.  What we're

         6       actually talking about, really, is the process.

         7                      Senator Levy is correct, there

         8       have been many who have been nominated and

         9       served admirably and served with distinction in

        10       areas with which they weren't originally

        11       familiar, but the nomination itself begs the

        12       question when the individual is willing honestly

        13       to state that they are not significantly

        14       familiar with the area as to why the nomination

        15       occurred in the first place.  The answer could

        16       well be that we take very talented people and we

        17       distribute these talented people among agencies

        18       and hope that their natural abilities flourish

        19       in those agencies; but the reason that we have

        20       committees, the reason that we engage in the

        21       advice and consent as we are in this chamber

        22       today, is on the basis of some assumption that

        23       we make that there are a number of talented











                                                             
7243

         1       people in the pool of those who would have been

         2       qualified to serve and among those talented

         3       people, there are many who are significantly

         4       embellished in the knowledge of this particular

         5       area.

         6                      I think the point that Senator

         7       Gold and Senator Leichter and also Senator

         8       Dollinger were trying to make without any malice

         9       toward this nominee is that in this chamber we

        10       are deliberating as not to whether or not we can

        11       forecast what the inevitable results will be of

        12       the confirmation of this particular candidate,

        13       but whether or not this particular candidate may

        14       have been the best that our state can offer.

        15                      With a number of individuals who

        16       are significantly familiar with the employment

        17       area, the question might be asked, why are we

        18       passing over them in favor of a highly qualified

        19       person who might better serve our state in

        20       another area?

        21                      That is a valid question.  It

        22       does not mean that you have to vote against this

        23       nomination if you don't choose to, but if it is











                                                             
7244

         1       a valid question, and it has always been a

         2       question that occurs over and over in the

         3       selection not only of individuals who have been

         4       appointed by the Governor but even in elections,

         5       it is the balance between qualification and

         6       ability, qualification being the definition of

         7       the actual -- the actual accomplishments that

         8       the individual may have and the resume and the

         9       distinctions that the individual has shown in

        10       the past in this particular area as balanced by,

        11       perhaps, an individual who shows that they are

        12       distinguished in a number of areas and we can

        13       then presume that in this case, moving into the

        14       labor area, that they would be as adequate as

        15       they have been previously; but I think that the

        16       discussion is being lost on -- in a sense, a

        17       concentration on what would be an individual

        18       situation, and as far as this nomination is

        19       concerned, we have a nominee who may inevitably

        20       have shown the greatest distinction by his

        21       honestly answering the question as to compare

        22       the anxiety that occurs in matrimonial actions

        23       being greater than that in what occurs in labor











                                                             
7245

         1       disputes, but it's not really the pain test that

         2       we're looking for.  It's actually the ability to

         3       distinguish between the elements of those two

         4       separate areas of the law, and I think that what

         5       Senator Gold's pointing out is to say that where

         6       we can as a government and particularly where

         7       administrative judges are concerned and even in

         8       law enforcement and in the district attorneys'

         9       offices now, there is an attempt to match up

        10       cases with the qualities and the abilities of

        11       the assistant district attorneys who work on

        12       those particular cases.

        13                      And so, when we look at this

        14       whole situation, I would admonish all of us that

        15       it is not wrong to have a problem with a

        16       nomination because the individual has not

        17       demonstrated a real ability or demonstrated any

        18       history of familiarity with a particular area.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        20       recognizes Senator Tully.

        21                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      Again, squeaky voice and all,











                                                             
7246

         1       some question was made with respect to the

         2       particular expertise with members of the

         3       judiciary and cases being assigned to them but

         4        -- because of the their particular expertise in

         5       the field, but those of us who are trial

         6       attorneys know that in many of our counties -

         7       and I speak specifically of Nassau County -- the

         8       calendars are so crowded and we have so few

         9       judges that many times you have a County Court

        10       judge who is well versed in the field of

        11       criminal law who is called upon to be an acting

        12       Supreme Court justice to sit on cases in the

        13       civil sector involving labor relations,

        14       involving matrimonial law, involving everything

        15       except criminal law in most cases, and they

        16       serve well.  They do the job.  They're fairly

        17       competent because of their educational

        18       background, because of their knowledge of the

        19       law.

        20                      I think it's been clearly demon

        21       strated that this particular candidate has an

        22       excellent knowledge of the law.  His background

        23       in public service is unparalleled, and I think











                                                             
7247

         1       it goes without saying that the process being

         2       what it is, as we have in the past, we will

         3       judge this candidate on the totality of his

         4       credentials and his background and we will make

         5       the right decision.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Stafford to close debate.

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

         9       you, a number of times, have heard me say this

        10       since Governor Pataki was elected, that we have

        11       had excellent nominees before us.

        12                      I again today say that Anthony C.

        13       Imbarrato is among the best.

        14                      We go back 30 years -- I

        15       mentioned earlier today that he was counsel to

        16       Ed Speno and those were the days when we weren't

        17       paid very well and we always went to Codes

        18       because Ed Speno had such a good lunch.  We

        19       didn't have to eat for a couple of days.  I

        20       might add that since then a number of -- all,

        21       including myself, have carried on that

        22       tradition.  I assure you when I had it it was

        23       not the same as Ed Speno's.











                                                             
7248

         1                      I want to share with my Senator

         2       from Harvard.  If you sat in on a labor meeting

         3       and you couldn't understand it, I suggest you

         4       send your degree back to Harvard, because I

         5       would suggest that as Harry Wilmer Jones said,

         6       who taught contracts and labor law, the whole

         7       job is finding the issues.  You have to know

         8       what has to be decided, then you can always get

         9       people to find the law for you, but it's the

        10       good lawyers who know what the issues are.

        11                      I would suggest that in a

        12       practice -- let's look at it this way.  You

        13       know, we can argue either side; that's what

        14       we're trained for.  Maybe it's better that we

        15       don't put people into specialties where they've

        16       practiced.  They may have decided which side

        17       they should be on.  Maybe on purpose we should

        18       make sure that we don't put a lawyer -- if he's

        19       had a certain practice, maybe he or she

        20       shouldn't really be put in that field.

        21                      Now, I do say, as has been said

        22       here earlier, that with the reputation and those

        23       of us who know him -- I had a long talk with the











                                                             
7249

         1       nominee and his good wife today -- anyone who

         2       has had a practice, I suggest that they can go

         3       into these fields and do very well, just as

         4       Senator Skelos said, just as Senator Levy -- I

         5       could go on and on; and I would also say this,

         6       that, you know, I'm beginning to really

         7       understand -- and this is no criticism of

         8       anybody because we have the right to say how we

         9       think, how we feel when we're serving in the

        10       Senate.  If we don't, we're not doing our job;

        11       but I would just say to all of us -- to all of

        12       us, I think every time had been difficult and,

        13       lo and behold, we know that we're now living in

        14       a time when we have a situation where sometimes

        15       we wonder why anybody wants to serve in public

        16       life, why anybody wants to run for office, and I

        17       would caution us all that we should always

        18       remember that.  We should always remember that.

        19                      We have here a nominee who

        20       through the years has worked in the private

        21       sector -- and that's what I like, by the way.

        22       That's what I like.  We have these people

        23       constantly coming before us that have been in











                                                             
7250

         1       the public sector for their entire life and some

         2        -- sometimes don't understand what it's like to

         3        -- at the end of a week in a law firm to have

         4       more money left than what you spent.  I think we

         5       need some more of that in government, and that's

         6       what we have with this -- with this nominee.

         7                      I said today, to close on a

         8       lighter vein, we have these various days in

         9       Albany.  Some days you can pick any bill up and,

        10       gosh, you don't seem to have anybody say too

        11       much and then we have these rocky days; and I

        12       checked with the moon and I -- you know, you

        13       sometimes -- you sometimes can find out a lot.

        14                      I want to make sure that I join

        15       in supporting Anthony C. Imbarrato, and I'm sure

        16       he will serve well.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Stafford, would you like to share with the

        19       members what the moon said?

        20                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  There was an

        21       indication last night, but beware in three

        22       nights, 4:00 in the morning.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank











                                                             
7251

         1       you, Senator Stafford.

         2                      The question is on the nomination

         3       of Anthony C. Imbarrato to become a member of

         4       the New York State Employment Relations Board.

         5       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Slow roll

         8       call.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are there

        10       five members standing who request a slow roll

        11       call?

        12                      The Secretary will read the roll

        13       slowly.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Ring the bells

        15       too.  I know the Minority likes to hear the

        16       bells too, so we'll add the bells.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bells

        18       are ringing, Senator Skelos.

        19                      The Secretary will call the

        20       roll.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

        22                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.











                                                             
7252

         1                      SENATOR BABBUSH:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno.

         3                      (Affirmative indication.)

         4                      Senator Connor.

         5                      (Negative indication.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         7       Senator Cook, excused.

         8                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator DiCarlo.

        11                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        15       President, to explain my vote.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Dollinger to explain his vote.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        19       President, I'm mindful of the comments made by

        20       Senator Levy and others about the competence of

        21       a lawyer and the competence of a lawyer that you

        22       generally assume can be very broad based, but

        23       one thing we look at in determining qualifica











                                                             
7253

         1       tions is we use past qualifications as a

         2       predictor for future competence, and I think

         3       that's something we do as lawyers.  I think it's

         4       something that our clients do as consumers.

         5       When they come to us and someone says to me, "I

         6       need a matrimonial dispute", I say, "I don't do

         7       matrimonial work.  I do general litigation.  I

         8       don't do that.  Go to someone else," and I think

         9       that what we see here is the past qualifications

        10       don't provide, at least to me, an indication of

        11       the competence level to be able to handle the

        12       following:

        13                      Disputes over strikes, disputes

        14       over picketing, McKay Radio and the issue of

        15       permanent replacements and when they're

        16       appropriate, subcontracting issues and whether

        17       they constitute unfair labor practices,

        18       secondary boycotts -- secondary boycotts is a

        19       big issue -- the issues involved in the Hudgins

        20       case, that is of the access of labor

        21       representatives on private property and

        22       balancing private property rights with those -

        23       with First Amendment rights to get information











                                                             
7254

         1       out about union contracting, all of the issues

         2       relating to union contracting.

         3                      Those are the kinds of issues

         4       that this board will hear.  That is a very

         5       sophisticated -- I practiced in the labor

         6       field.  Those are very sophisticated, very

         7       complicated issues of federal and state labor

         8       law, and I think although Mr. Imbarrato has lots

         9       of experience as a general practitioner, lots of

        10       experience as a matrimonial practitioner, and

        11       believe me, there's nothing I've heard today -

        12       and I won't -- I won't comment on what Senator

        13       Gold -- there's nothing that creates any

        14       inference that he isn't a qualified, good man

        15       for many jobs perhaps in this administration and

        16       as a lawyer, but for this particularly highly

        17       skilled area, I don't believe he has the

        18       qualifications.

        19                      I'll vote no.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Dollinger will be recorded in the negative.

        22                      The Secretary will continue to

        23       call the roll.











                                                             
7255

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

         2                      (Negative indication.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

         4                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber,

         6       excused.

         7                      Senator Gold.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gonzalez.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      Senator Goodman.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Hannon.

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  To explain my

        15       vote.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Hannon to explain his vote.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Given the

        19       standards that we've heard enunciated by Senator

        20       Dollinger, Senator Paterson, I think we should

        21       be confirming very enthusiastically Mr.

        22       Imbarrato, because the very nature of the law to

        23       be practiced requires the type of judgment,











                                                             
7256

         1       intelligence, experience that an individual such

         2       as he possesses, and given those standards I

         3       could not more highly recommend to this body

         4       that we vote in the affirmative, as I do.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Hannon in the affirmative.

         7                      The Secretary will continue to

         8       call the roll.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoblock.

        10                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Yes.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Holland.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator Johnson.

        16                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Jones.

        18                      SENATOR JONES:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Senator Kuhl.

        22                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.











                                                             
7257

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      Senator Larkin.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator LaValle.

         5                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leibell.

         7                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Leichter to explain his vote.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just briefly,

        13       I don't know how we got into this long

        14       discussion about judges, and so on, because it's

        15       just not analogous to this nominee and the

        16       position to which he's being nominated.

        17                      This is a board.  It does hear

        18       cases, but there are also -- particularly since

        19       he's going to be the chairman -- administrative

        20       functions.  It has a certain role to play as far

        21       as defining the nature of the dispute, how the

        22       matter is going to be handled which are totally

        23       different from the way judges handle cases and,











                                                             
7258

         1       therefore, I totally reject the idea, Well,

         2       since any lawyer can be a judge just about, then

         3       anybody can serve on the Employment Relations

         4       Board.  That just is not the case.

         5                      Let's look for people who know

         6       what they're doing.  I think we owe that and

         7       this Governor owes that to the people of the

         8       state of New York.

         9                      I vote no.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Leichter in the negative.

        12                      The Secretary will continue to

        13       call the roll.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

        15                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

        17                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Marcellino.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Marcellino to explain his vote.

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.











                                                             
7259

         1       President, to use the words of Senator Leichter

         2       before, this nominee possesses the qualities of

         3       honesty, integrity and intelligence.  What more

         4       could you want?

         5                      I vote aye.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Marcellino in the affirmative.

         8                      The Secretary will continue to

         9       call the roll.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        13       Markowitz.

        14                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maziarz.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Mendez.

        18                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        20       Montgomery.

        21                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nanula.

        23                      SENATOR NANULA:  No.











                                                             
7260

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nozzolio.

         2                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      Senator Oppenheimer.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  To explain

         7       my vote.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Oppenheimer to explain her vote.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  It's going

        11       to be a rare occasion but I'm going to take my

        12       husband's advice.

        13                      I should disclose, I guess, that

        14       my husband heads the Labor-Management Department

        15       of Proskauer, and his advice has always been

        16       that he would much prefer someone who was

        17       energetic and intelligent coming into the

        18       department than someone necessarily who had a

        19       considerable amount of background but did not

        20       have that intelligence and that energy that he

        21       was looking for.

        22                      It seems to me that this

        23       gentleman before us, though no -- has no











                                                             
7261

         1       background in this field and was readily

         2       admitting to that fact, that he seems to have

         3       the intelligence and the capability that will

         4       make him assume this post with -- with

         5       considerable skill and energy, and so I'm going

         6       to be voting in the affirmative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Oppenheimer in the affirmative.

         9                      The Secretary will continue to

        10       call the roll.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Paterson.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson to explain his vote.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        17       I actually lived in the town of Hempstead when

        18       Mr. Imbarrato was the councilman between 1969

        19       and 1979.  I'm sure that he will do a fine job,

        20       and I understand what Senator Oppenheimer is

        21       saying.

        22                      The reason that I would want to

        23       vote no on this confirmation is that, though we











                                                             
7262

         1       might prefer an energetic person who is intelli

         2       gent to then just someone who has the experience

         3       I'm suggesting that we must somewhere around

         4       here have an energetic person who has the

         5       experience.

         6                      So we may have the brightest, but

         7       we may not have the best in the sense that while

         8       Mr. Imbarrato is trying to learn, a person that

         9       is equally as qualified but more familiar with

        10       the subject could be moving forward, but I

        11       understand what Senator Hannon said and I

        12       understand what Senator Stafford said and I'm

        13       voting no, but maybe the moon is influencing me;

        14       but the Minority has changed its position, Mr.

        15       President.  We don't want to hear the bells

        16       during slow roll call; we would rather hear a

        17       rendition of Moon River by Andy Williams.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Paterson in the negative.

        20                      The Secretary will continue to

        21       call the roll.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.











                                                             
7263

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

         2                      SENATOR RATH:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

         4                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago,

         6       excused.

         7                      Senator Sears.

         8                      SENATOR SEARS:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

        10                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

        14                      SENATOR SMITH:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Solomon.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Spano.

        18                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Spano to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR SPANO:  Explain my vote.

        22                      As the chairman of the Labor

        23       Committee, we have had an opportunity to have











                                                             
7264

         1       extensive conversations with this nominee.

         2                      I have had a chance to have him

         3       appear before the Committee, talk to the members

         4       of the Committee, and was recommended favorably

         5       without any objection to the Senate Finance

         6       Committee from that Labor Committee.

         7                      He's someone -- I don't have to

         8       go through everything that has been said this

         9       afternoon.  My colleagues have more than

        10       adequately spoken about his capabilities, about

        11       his background, the fact that he is an

        12       established attorney, as a local official

        13       certainly has got more than enough background to

        14       chair this agency.

        15                      I enthusiastically vote yes for

        16       this nominee and question, this is one -- I

        17       think the only time that I've seen that we are

        18       having a slow roll call on an appointment -- on

        19       an appointment to the chairman or members of the

        20       State Employment Relations Board.  Don't quite

        21       understand that.  There's something else going

        22       on here today.  Maybe you could share it with

        23       us, but I'll tell you, Tony Imbarrato who is up











                                                             
7265

         1       there, he's a gentleman and will do us all very

         2       proud serving the Governor and all of the people

         3       of the state.

         4                      I vote aye.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Spano in the affirmative.

         7                      The Secretary will continue to

         8       call the roll.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Stachowski.

        11                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford.

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stavisky.

        15                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        19                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        21                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Velella to explain his vote.











                                                             
7266

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Being at the

         2       end of the alphabet, I have the luxury of being

         3       the 31st vote I understand on this nomination,

         4       but let me say, I have listened very intently to

         5       the issues that were raised by the Minority, and

         6       every single day that we come to work in this

         7       chamber, all of us vote on a variety of bills,

         8       dealing with the Labor Law, the Banking Law, the

         9       Insurance Law, the health codes, a battery of

        10       issues.

        11                      Are we all pompous enough to

        12       believe we are perfect experts on every phase of

        13       the law?  We take a look at the issues, we

        14       examine the bills, we do the research necessary

        15       to make an educated judgment.  That's all we can

        16       ask of any public official.  I think we can get

        17       that with this nominee.

        18                      I vote aye, as the 31st vote.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Velella in the affirmative.

        21                      The Secretary will continue to

        22       call the roll.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.











                                                             
7267

         1                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator Wright.

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will call the absentees.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gonzalez.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Senator Goodman.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Hoffmann.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Holland.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.

        17                      SENATOR KRUGER:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Larkin.

        21                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I proudly vote

        22       yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.











                                                             
7268

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Maltese to explain his vote.

         3                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Just very, very

         4       briefly, Mr. President.

         5                      I am proud to cast my vote aye.

         6       As a member of the Sons of Italy, as someone who

         7       is active in Italian-American affairs, I think

         8       he will make a fine nominee with a balanced,

         9       dedicated approach.

        10                      I'm proud to vote aye.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Maltese in the affirmative.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maziarz.

        14                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

        16                      (Affirmative indication.)

        17                      Senator Solomon.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      Senator Waldon.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Senator Lack.

        22                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce











                                                             
7269

         1       the results.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39, nays 14.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       nomination of Anthony C. Imbarrato is

         5       confirmed.

         6                      We're very, very pleased to be

         7       joined by Mr. Imbarrato and his wife Vicki, who

         8       are seated in the gallery to your left, my

         9       right.

        10                      Welcome.  Good luck.

        11                      (Applause.)

        12                      Senator Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        14       could you call up Calendar Number 1056, Senate

        15       5236?

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Leichter, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.  May I

        20       take this opportunity to ask unanimous consent

        21       to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 605

        22       and 710?

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Without











                                                             
7270

         1       objection.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar Number 605.

         5                      Senator Gold, why do you rise?

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  Without

         7       objection, may I be recorded in the negative on

         8       Calendar 605?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        10       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator Gold

        11       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        12       605.

        13                      Senator Mendez.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        15       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        16       negative on Calendar Number 605.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        18       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator Mendez

        19       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        20       605.

        21                      Senator Nanula.

        22                      SENATOR NANULA:  Mr. President,

        23       I'd like to request unanimous concent to be











                                                             
7271

         1       recorded in the negative on Calendar Numbers 605

         2       and 770.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         4       objection, Senator Nanula -- hearing no

         5       objection, Senator Nanula will be recorded in

         6       the negative on Calendar Number 605 and 770.

         7                      Senator Stavisky.

         8                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President,

         9       without objection, I should like to be recorded

        10       in the negative on Calendar Number 605.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        12       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

        13       Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on

        14       Calendar 605.

        15                      Senator Padavan.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Similarly, Mr.

        17       President, negative vote on 605.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

        20       Padavan will be recorded in the negative on

        21       Calendar 605.

        22                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Ditto.











                                                             
7272

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         2       objection.  No objection being heard, Senator

         3       Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on

         4       Calendar Number 605.

         5                      Senator Montgomery.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Negative on

         7       605, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         9       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

        10       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        11       Calendar Number 605.

        12                      Senator Babbush, without

        13       objection.  Hearing no objection, Senator

        14       Babbush will be recorded in the negative on

        15       Calendar Number 605.

        16                      Senator Velella.

        17                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

        18       my bill, Senate 2587, Calendar Number 764, would

        19       you remove the star, please?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

        21       sponsor's request, the star will be removed on

        22       Calendar Number 764.

        23                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President.











                                                             
7273

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Goodman.

         3                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I was listening

         4       attentively to the debate on the nominee just

         5       approved but was called away for a moment.  May

         6       I please, without objection, be recorded in the

         7       affirmative on the slow roll?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       record will reflect, Senator Goodman, that had

        10       you been present, you would have voted in the

        11       affirmative on Calendar Number -- excuse me -

        12       on the confirmation of Anthony Imbarrato.

        13                      Senator Skelos.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        15       believe there's a report of the Finance

        16       Committee at the desk, if we could have it read

        17       at this time.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Ask the

        19       Secretary to read the report of the Finance

        20       Committee.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        22       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        23       following bill:











                                                             
7274

         1                      Senate Print 5236, Budget Bill,

         2       an act to amend a chapter of the laws of 1995

         3       entitled, "An act to provide for payments to

         4       municipalities and to providers of medical

         5       services under the Medical Assistance Program."

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  At this time,

         9       could we please vote on Calendar Number 1056,

        10       Senate 5236?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        12       objection, the Finance Committee report is

        13       received.  The bill is reported directly to

        14       Third Reading.

        15                      The Secretary will read Calendar

        16       Number 1056.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1056, Budget Bill, 5236, an act to amend a

        19       chapter of the laws of 1995 entitled, "An act to

        20       provide for payments to municipalities and

        21       providers of medical services under the Medical

        22       Assistance Program."

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The











                                                             
7275

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the same date as such

         4       chapter of the laws of 1995.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      Senator Skelos.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        13       believe there's a privileged resolution at the

        14       desk by Senator Present.  I ask that it be read

        15       in its entirety and that it be adopted.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        17       there is a privileged resolution by Senator

        18       Present at the desk.  I'll ask the Secretary to

        19       read it in its entirety.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        21       Present, Legislative Resolution memorializing

        22       Governor Pataki to proclaim the week of June 2nd

        23       through 9th, 1995 as "Manufacturing Week" in the











                                                             
7276

         1       state of New York.

         2                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of this

         3       assembled body that those who give positive

         4       definition to the profile and disposition of the

         5       communities of the state of New York do so

         6       profoundly strengthen in our shared commitment

         7       to the exercise of freedom; and

         8                      WHEREAS, attendant to such

         9       concern and fully in accord with its

        10       long-standing traditions, it is the intent of

        11       this assembled body to memorialize Governor

        12       Pataki to proclaim the week of June 2 through 9,

        13       1995 as "Manufacturing Week" in the state of New

        14       York.

        15                      Manufacturing provides employment

        16       for nearly one million people in New York

        17       State.

        18                      Manufacturing jobs pay an average

        19       of 23 percent more than other jobs.

        20                      Manufacturing has a significant

        21       effect whereby every 100 new manufacturing jobs

        22       creates an additional 135 other jobs.

        23                      Manufacturing employment has











                                                             
7277

         1       fallen below one million for the first time

         2       since the turn of the century.

         3                      The state has lost more than

         4       one-third of its manufacturing employment in the

         5       last three decades.  In the 1950s, one out of

         6       every three jobs was in manufacturing.  Now it

         7       is one in every eight.

         8                      The survival of a vibrant

         9       manufacturing sector of the economy enhances the

        10       opportunity for an improved quality for the

        11       citizens of this region; and

        12                      WHEREAS, industry is critical to

        13       maintaining a high quality of life in New York

        14       State; now, therefore, be it

        15                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        16       body pause in its deliberations and note that it

        17       is the policy of New York State to develop and

        18       implement programs and policies that encourage

        19       the growth, retention and attraction of

        20       manufacturing investment; and be it further

        21                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        22       body memorialize Governor Pataki to join with

        23       scores of individual communities and proclaim











                                                             
7278

         1       the week of June 2 through 9, 1995 as

         2       "Manufacturing Week" in the state of New York;

         3       and be it further

         4                      RESOLVED, that a copy of this

         5       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         6       to Governor George E. Pataki.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Present, several members have indicated that

         9       they would like to co-sponsor this.  Would you

        10       like to open it up for sponsorship?

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.

        12       I understand that a number of co-sponsors

        13       already -- certainly, open it up to anyone who

        14       desires.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Why don't

        16       we do as we have in the past.  We'll place all

        17       the members on as co-sponsors unless they

        18       indicate to the desk that they don't wish to be

        19       on, okay?  That will be done.

        20                      The question is on the

        21       resolution.  All those in favor signify by

        22       saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)











                                                             
7279

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The resolution is adopted.

         4                      Senator Farley.

         5                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      On behalf of Senator Libous,

         8       please remove the sponsor's star from Calendar

         9       938.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

        11       request of the sponsor, the star will be removed

        12       on Calendar Number 938.

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        14       Senator Velella, on page 7, I offer the

        15       following amendments to Calendar 222, Senate

        16       Print 2764-A, and I ask that that bill retain

        17       its place.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       amendments to Calendar Number 222 are received

        20       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        21       the Third Reading Calendar.

        22                      Senator Farley.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On page 22, on











                                                             
7280

         1       behalf of Senator Levy, I offer the following

         2       amendments to Calendar 728, Senate Print 973-B

         3       and I ask that that bill retain its place on the

         4       Third Reading Calendar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       amendments to Calendar Number 728 are received

         7       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         8       the Third Reading Calendar.

         9                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        10       Senator Trunzo, on page 21, I offer the

        11       following amendments to Calendar 692, Senate

        12       Print 4057, and I ask that that bill retain its

        13       place.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       amendments to Calendar Number 692 are received

        16       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        17       the Third Reading Calendar.

        18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Again on behalf

        19       of Senator Trunzo, on page 21, Calendar Number

        20       689, Senate Print 3577, I offer the following

        21       amendments and I ask that that bill retain its

        22       place.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The











                                                             
7281

         1       amendments to Calendar Number 689 are received

         2       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         3       the Third Reading Calendar.

         4                      Senator Skelos -- excuse me.

         5       Senator Mendez.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      Please, there will be an

         9       immediate conference of the Minority.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        11       will be an immediate conference of the Minority

        12       in the Minority Conference Room.  Immediate

        13       conference of the Minority in the Minority

        14       Conference Room.

        15                      Senator Skelos.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        17       is there any other housekeeping at the desk?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  No.

        19       We're all clear, Senator Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Then the Senate

        21       will stand at ease, and there will be an

        22       immediate conference of the Majority in the

        23       Majority Conference Room.











                                                             
7282

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         2       will be an immediate conference of the Majority

         3       in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.

         4       Immediate meeting of the Majority Conference in

         5       the Majority Conference Room, Room 332 and the

         6       Senate will stand at ease.

         7                      (Whereupon the Senate stood at

         8       ease from 1:34 p.m. until 9:03 p.m.)

         9                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  The Senate

        10       please will come to order for the purposes of an

        11       announcement.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        13       recognizes Senator Johnson calling the chamber

        14       to order for an announcement.  The Chair would,

        15       for the benefit of the members, would note that

        16       the Majority Leader has requested that all of

        17       you be in the chamber at 9:15, 11 minutes from

        18       now, when the Senate will reconvene.

        19                      The members will be provided with

        20       a revised active list.  There will be several

        21       bills that we will attempt to take up this

        22       evening.  So at 9:15, the Senate will be called

        23       back to order.











                                                             
7283

         1                      Senator Paterson.  Why do you

         2       rise?

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         4       first of all, I never sat down.  I -- I'd like

         5       to hear the gavel, Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You'd

         7       like to see the gavel.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No, I'd like

         9       to hear it.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Well,

        11       we're really not in session at this moment, Mr.

        12       Paterson, just talking amongst ourselves

        13       providing a little information for the insight

        14       of the members.  Would you like to provide the

        15       members with some information, those ears on

        16       your side of the aisle?

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.  The

        18       Senate will come to order at 9:15 like you said,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We're

        21       harmonious in our thoughts, Senator Paterson.

        22       Thank you.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I understand.











                                                             
7284

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

         2       will come to order at 9:15, ten minutes away.

         3                      (The Senate stood at ease from

         4       9:10 to 9:20 p.m.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senate will come to order.

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Members

         9       please find their places, staff please find

        10       their places.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        13       recognizes Senator Johnson.

        14                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  May we proceed

        15       with the Supplemental Calendar, calling up the

        16       first bill, Calendar Number 317.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Ask the

        18       Secretary to read Supplemental Calendar.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 9,

        20       Calendar 317, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print

        21       1984A, an act to amend the Executive Law, in

        22       relation to qualifications of employment for

        23       direct care staff in the Division for Youth.











                                                             
7285

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      Secretary will continue to call

         5       the non-controversial.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       573, by Senator Levy, Senate Print Number 392A,

         8       an act to amend the Transportation Law, in

         9       relation to requiring common rail carriers to

        10       adopt hazardous material emergency preparedness

        11       plans.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       594, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2595, an

        17       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        18       relation to criminal screening of child day care

        19       providers.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
7286

         1       734, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 4211, an

         2       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,

         3       and others, in relation to compensatory

         4       service.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       804, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 4687, an

        10       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        11       increasing income eligibility level for persons

        12       employed by Green Thumb Environmental

        13       Beautification, Incorporated.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Oh, hold

        15       that.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       870, by Senator Levy, Senate Print Number 4857,

        20       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        21       relation to increasing fines associated with

        22       passing school buses.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.











                                                             
7287

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       950, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 3475,

         5       an act to amend the Family Court Act and the

         6       Domestic Relations Law, in relation to service

         7       of temporary orders of protection.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       951, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3612, an

        13       act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the

        14       Criminal Procedure Law and the Family Court Act,

        15       in relation to imposing a mandatory surcharge.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       952, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3953A, an

        21       act to amend the Family Court Act and the Civil

        22       Practice Law and Rules, in relation to

        23       jurisdiction over non-residents.











                                                             
7288

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       953, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4013, an

         6       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

         7       to law guardian representation.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      Senator Johnson, that completes

        12       the non-controversial calendar.

        13                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        14       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have

        16       quite a few pieces of housekeeping at the desk,

        17       Senator Johnson.  Would you like to take that up

        18       at the present time?

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        21       return to motions and resolutions.

        22                      Chair recognizes Senator Farley.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
7289

         1       President.

         2                      On behalf of Senator Holland, on

         3       page 50, I offer the following amendments to

         4       Calendar 1014, Senate Print 68, and I ask that

         5       this bill retain its place on the Third Reading

         6       Calendar.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Amendments to Calendar Number 1014 received and

         9       accepted.  The bill will retain its place on the

        10       Third Reading Calendar.

        11                      Senator Farley.

        12                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        13       Senator Stafford, on page 48, I offer the

        14       following amendments to Calendar Number 660,

        15       Senate Print Number 4056, and I ask that that

        16       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        17       Calendar.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        19       Amendments to Calendar Number 660 will be

        20       received and accepted.  Bill will retain its

        21       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        22                      Senator Maziarz.

        23                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
7290

         1       President.

         2                      On behalf of Senator Cook, please

         3       remove the sponsor's star from Calendar Number

         4       494.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

         6       request of the sponsor, a star will be removed

         7       from Calendar Number 494.

         8                      Senator Maziarz.

         9                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

        10       on page number 8, I offer the following

        11       amendments to Calendar Number 247, Senate Print

        12       Number 2271, and ask that said bill retain its

        13       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Amendments to Calendar Number 247 are received

        16       and adopted.  Bill will retain its place on the

        17       Third Reading Calendar.

        18                      Senator Marcellino.

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        20       President, I ask to remove the star on my bill,

        21       Senate Print Number 4951, the sponsor's star.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        23       Number?











                                                             
7291

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  957.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  At the

         3       request of the sponsor, the star will be removed

         4       from Calendar Number 957.

         5                      Senator Marcellino.

         6                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  And on that

         7       same page number 50, I offer the following

         8       amendments to Calendar Number 957, Senate Print

         9       4951.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments to Calendar Number 957 are received

        12       and accepted.  Bill will retain its place on the

        13       Third Reading Calendar.

        14                      Senator Marcellino.

        15                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  On behalf of

        16       Senator Goodman, I wish to call up Print Number

        17       3424, recalled from the Assembly which is now at

        18       the desk.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the title.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  740, by Senator

        22       Goodman, Senate Print 3424, an act to amend the

        23       Administrative Code of the city of New York, in











                                                             
7292

         1       relation to a credit against the unincorporated

         2       business tax.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         6       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

         7       which this bill passed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         9       to reconsider the vote by which this bill

        10       passed.  Secretary will call the roll on

        11       reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        13       reconsideration.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marcellino.

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now offer

        18       the following amendments.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Amendments are received and adopted.

        21                      Senator Johnson, also there is a

        22       substitution if you'd like to take that up at

        23       this time.  I'll ask the Secretary to read.











                                                             
7293

         1                      Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath

         3       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         4       Assembly Print Number 2817 and substitute it for

         5       the identical Calendar Number 706.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         7       Substitution is ordered.

         8                      That completes the housekeeping,

         9       Senator Johnson.

        10                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Now proceed

        11       with the controversial calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the controversial calendar beginning

        14       with Calendar Number 317.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       317, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print Number

        17       1984A, an act to amend the Executive Law, in

        18       relation to qualifications of employment for

        19       direct care staff in the Division for Youth.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       DiCarlo, an explanation of Calendar Number 317

        23       has been asked for by the Acting Minority











                                                             
7294

         1       Leader, Senator Paterson.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      This bill sets forth

         5       qualifications for the DFY for direct care

         6       staff.  Those persons who are convicted of

         7       felonies would not be employed.  The Director of

         8       the Division for Youth also in terms of

         9       misdemeanors has the discretion for those

        10       positions which he feels are positions that are

        11       in direct care in the Division for Youth.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        14       recognizes Senator Abate.

        15                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Would

        16       Senator DiCarlo yield to a question?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       DiCarlo yields to Senator Abate for a question.

        19                      SENATOR ABATE:  My recollection

        20       is that we passed a similar bill not so long

        21       ago; is that correct?

        22                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, it is.

        23                      SENATOR ABATE:  And how is this











                                                             
7295

         1       bill -- this bill is amended.  How is the bill

         2       different that was passed previously?

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  This bill -- I

         4       believe without -

         5                      SENATOR ABATE:  Again, that's my

         6       recollection.

         7                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yeah, but I

         8       believe what this bill does that is different

         9       than the prior bill is that we're also taking

        10       into account those people convicted of

        11       misdemeanors where the Director of the Division

        12       for Youth feels that they are in positions with

        13       direct oversight of those people in the Division

        14       for Youth.  This adds into the categories.

        15                      SENATOR ABATE:  My -- again, I

        16       mean it is your bill, but my recollection of the

        17       other bill had a broader category, all Division

        18       for Youth aides, and it did not delineate what

        19       those aides are.  So is this a more restrictive

        20       bill? This is only individuals that are involved

        21       in the custody of the juveniles?

        22                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yeah.

        23                      SENATOR ABATE:  And not











                                                             
7296

         1       counselors, not drug treatment providers.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yeah.  What

         3       this -- what this bill does, it allows the

         4       Director of the Division for Youth to decide

         5       what positions of those positions where these

         6       people should not be employed.

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  There's nothing

         8       in the bill that delineates who these

         9       individuals are; they will be described some

        10       time later by the director?

        11                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Director of

        12       DFY, correct.

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  For Youth.  So

        14       this could include not only custody staff but

        15       treatment staff.

        16                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        17                      SENATOR ABATE:  Include anyone

        18       who works within the Division for Youth.

        19                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Direct contact,

        20       yes.

        21                      SENATOR ABATE:  So that just for

        22       clarification, almost anyone who goes into a

        23       facility could be described as having direct











                                                             
7297

         1       contact with the individuals?

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yeah, the

         3       Director of the Division for Youth will make

         4       those -- those decisions.

         5                      SENATOR ABATE:  And again you

         6       don't remember what the language, specific

         7       language, changes are between the last bill and

         8       this bill?

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Not

        10       specifically, no.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        12       recognizes Senator Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Will the

        14       sponsor yield to a question, please?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       DiCarlo, do you yield to Senator Dollinger?

        17                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       yields.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What effect

        21       will this extension have on the Civil Service

        22       Law?

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I don't believe











                                                             
7298

         1       any, Senator.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, suppose

         3       you're on a civil service list and you were

         4       entitled to an appointment or a promotion and

         5       this now puts a new requirement into the Civil

         6       Service Law, but I notice that it doesn't -

         7       doesn't change the Civil Service Law.  It

         8       changes the Executive Law.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, the answer

        10       is I stand by what I just said in my answer that

        11       I don't believe it affects it whatsoever.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. But

        13       again through you, Mr. President, if Senator

        14       DiCarlo will yield.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       DiCarlo, do you continue to yield to Senator

        17       Dollinger?

        18                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  There isn't

        22       any section that changes the Civil Service Law

        23       in this state?











                                                             
7299

         1                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I believe it

         2       just establishes qualifications for the Division

         3       of Youth.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         5       you, Mr. President, you might know it's my

         6       understanding the Civil Service Law contains

         7       provisions for the appointment and the

         8       circumstances and the qualifications for the

         9       testing for employees throughout the state

        10       service, and we have in the Executive Law and in

        11       other places, we may have additional

        12       qualifications for employees in particular

        13       departments.

        14                      What we usually have in the Civil

        15       Service Law is an express provision that incor

        16       porates those changes, makes those changes and

        17       applies them to specific executive departments.

        18       This bill doesn't do that, though?

        19                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I -- I -- what

        20       you say, I don't know whether you're right or

        21       wrong, and basically the answer that I gave you

        22       is the answer to your question that I still

        23       stand by.











                                                             
7300

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. Again

         2       through you, Mr. President, on another topic.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       DiCarlo, you continue to yield?

         5                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yeah.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       continues to yield.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This bill

         9       requires a placement in the event of a felony or

        10       misdemeanor.  How would the state Division for

        11       Youth find out whether the applicant or the

        12       potential transferee is either a felon or a mis

        13       demeanant?  How will they -- how would they

        14       know?

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  By the honesty

        16       of the applicant.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is it -

        18       again through you, Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is it your

        22       intention to change the application form, the

        23       civil service application form, for people that











                                                             
7301

         1       work for the Division of Youth or seek transfers

         2       in it that will require them to disclose whether

         3       they are -- have been guilty of a felony or

         4       misdemeanor?

         5                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  With a little

         6       aid from the chairman of the Codes Committee,

         7       right now, many of the employees are not civil

         8       service, as he tells me, and also under the

         9       legislation, I believe the background checks

        10       would be conducted to follow this law.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  But through

        12       you, Mr. President, do you have any -- do you

        13       know what the cost of conducting those

        14       background checks will be?  My understanding is

        15       those checks are not currently conducted.

        16                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I don't have an

        17       exact estimate.  I don't believe it would be too

        18       expensive, and I think it would be worthwhile,

        19       but I don't have any figures, no.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. Through

        21       you, Mr. President, one other question on the

        22       topic.  Are you aware -- is the sponsor aware

        23       that, under the Executive Law in the state of











                                                             
7302

         1       New York, it is now an impermissible inquiry in

         2       the course of an application, to ask a potential

         3       applicant whether they've been guilty of a mis

         4       demeanor?  You can ask them whether they've been

         5       guilty of a misdemeanor but, under the current

         6       rulings of the Division of Human Rights, you

         7       cannot ask an applicant whether they've been

         8       guilty of a misdemeanor.

         9                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Sounds like a

        10       good recommendation and maybe that's something

        11       we have to look at, and I'd like your input and

        12       you can help co-sponsor it.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I don't have

        14       any further questions.  One more question, Mr.

        15       President, on the bill.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       DiCarlo, you continue to yield?

        18                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is there any

        22       provision in this bill that permits a court

        23       review of a denial for an application? I note











                                                             
7303

         1       there is a provision that says that you may ask

         2       the director to review the denial of a position

         3       either on the basis of the fact that they were

         4       guilty of a misdemeanor and that that

         5       misdemeanor would mean it would not be in the

         6       best interests of the agency, but there's no

         7       provision in here that gives the courts

         8       jurisdiction to review the denial of an

         9       application if there were -- the decision was

        10       made on improper information or the decision was

        11       reversed on appeal, the felony was struck out,

        12       there was a later habeas corpus petition that

        13       expunged the felony, in all of those instances

        14       there may be justifiable grounds for this

        15       applicant or transferee to seek court review and

        16       have the courts overturn what would be an

        17       arbitrary and capricious exercise of discretion

        18       on the part of the department, but that's -- is

        19       there anything in this bill that affects that?

        20                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Well, I think

        21       you already stated they already have the ability

        22       and they would continue to have the ability to

        23       bring an Article 78 proceeding, and I'll bring











                                                             
7304

         1       your attention to the last few para...  lines in

         2       the bill in terms of whether it can just be done

         3       without any recourse and it says notwithstanding

         4       the foregoing provisions of the section, no

         5       person shall be disqualified on a discretionary

         6       basis unless he or she shall have been provided

         7       a written statement of the reasons for such

         8       disqualification and afforded an opportunity by

         9       the director or the director's designee to make

        10       an explanation and to submit facts in opposition

        11       thereto.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through you,

        13       Mr. President, what is the -- is there a motive

        14       under which those decisions would be made?  Is

        15       there an improper -- impartial hearing officer

        16       will decide the question as we have in many

        17       other parts of our -- our code, or is this going

        18       to be something that the director will sort of

        19       decide without the presence of counsel, without

        20       impartial tribunals, without additional notice

        21       of the time and place of the hearing?

        22                      Usually those kinds of

        23       protections are tucked into these types of











                                                             
7305

         1       determinations and, in addition, I'd ask, what's

         2       the standard of review in the court proceeding

         3       assuming that this individual takes the denial

         4       of the director and the denial of the review of

         5       the administration process, takes it to the

         6       court, what's the standard of review for this

         7       decision?

         8                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  This is an

         9       administrative decision that is made by the

        10       director and the person who is deemed

        11       disqualified has legal recourse in this action.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  On the bill,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Dollinger, on the bill.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I hope my

        17       questions perhaps expressed my late hour's

        18       skepticism for this bill.  I think it has some

        19       good intent.  I think there may be some good

        20       substance in here, but I think it needs a lot

        21       more work.

        22                      I think we ought to amend the

        23       Civil Service Law to expressly provide that this











                                                             
7306

         1       will now be a part of any civil service

         2       determinations that are made in DFY.  I think we

         3       should look at the Human Rights Law and the

         4       Executive Law which creates prohibitions on

         5       asking certain questions of applicants regarding

         6       their past criminal behavior, and I also think

         7       that you need a better standard of review.

         8                      There's no description of the

         9       standard of review.  There's no description as

        10       there are in many bills that we pass that says

        11       all of this can be reviewed under an Article 78

        12       proceeding, under which the standard will be

        13       whether or not the director's determination was

        14       arbitrary and capricious, a well accepted

        15       standard in the law.

        16                      The bill goes part of the way to

        17       solving what I think is a very complicated

        18       problem.  I don't think it goes quite far

        19       enough.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Abate.

        22                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Would

        23       Senator DiCarlo yield to a question?











                                                             
7307

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       yields.

         3                      SENATOR ABATE:  I did find the

         4       prior legislation that passed on April 24th and

         5       perhaps you can clarify for me.  It's the same

         6       bill in essence.  The first bill talked about

         7       employment as a Youth Division aide and the

         8       current bill talks about a direct care staff.

         9       Could you explain to me the difference between a

        10       Youth Division aide and direct care staff?

        11                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I think in the

        12       first bill what it does is it limits the

        13       director's discretion in terms of who is in

        14       contact with those involved at the Division for

        15       Youth and it broadens for the director and for

        16       the DFY those people that they consider who are

        17       in contact with the youngsters so that they have

        18       a better idea and can make a better judgment on

        19       who should not be employed by the DFY who have

        20       contact with the youth.

        21                      SENATOR ABATE:  So, in other

        22       words, the Youth Division aide is a civil

        23       service title; is that a civil service title











                                                             
7308

         1       that relates to a small subset of the staff that

         2       work in the facility?

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Well, I don't

         4       know whether it's a civil -- civil service title

         5       but it is a smaller subset within the DFY and I

         6       think that the reason that we've made a change

         7       in this legislation is for the director to have

         8       more say in who should not be in contact, those

         9       people who are convicted felons or those who are

        10       misdemeanants who, in the -- in the

        11       understanding of the director should not be in

        12       contact with the youths within the Division of

        13       Youth.

        14                      SENATOR ABATE:  And it's my

        15       understanding, then, from the last time I asked

        16       the question that direct care staff will not

        17       only include custody which are similar to

        18       correction officers where I understand there is

        19       a need to eliminate people with prior felony

        20       convictions, but also includes treatment people,

        21       people who have casual conduct -- contact, and

        22       are not involved in the securing and the custody

        23       of the youngsters; is that right?











                                                             
7309

         1                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Well, I -

         2                      SENATOR ABATE:  It would include

         3       anyone?

         4                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Sure, anyone

         5       who the Director of the -- of the Division

         6       believes is in contact with those individuals in

         7       DFY, who the Director and the Division for Youth

         8       do not believe should be in contact, who are

         9       felons or in some cases those who have committed

        10       misdemeanors.  It is at their discretion again.

        11                      SENATOR ABATE:  And is there

        12       anything in the bill that would allow the

        13       director or mandate the director to look at how

        14       long ago the person was convicted of this crime?

        15       Let's say it occurred 25 years ago, that they

        16       remain clean, they became law-abiding, they were

        17       employed successfully elsewhere.  Is there any

        18       mandatory consideration when a court gives an

        19       individual certificate of relief from

        20       disability?  None of that is in the statute?

        21                      SENATOR DiCARLO: If the

        22       individual has committed a felony and has been

        23       convicted of a felony, they can not be in those











                                                             
7310

         1       positions.  If the person has been convicted of

         2       a misdemeanor and the Director of the Division

         3       for Youth believes that they are still and

         4       should not be in contact with those in the

         5       Division for Youth, they will not be, so it is,

         6       to answer your question, no.

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  So under this

         8       legislation the second piece of legislation

         9       would mean just about anyone who is employed by

        10       the Division for Youth -

        11                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  That is -

        12                      SENATOR ABATE:  -- could be

        13       eliminated from employment if they have a prior

        14       felony conviction.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  That the

        16       director believes they are in direct care, and

        17       those are the words that are used, direct care

        18       for those within the Division for Youth.

        19                      SENATOR ABATE:  But there's no

        20       definition for that within the statute.

        21                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  No.  That is

        22       the director who will make that decision.

        23                      SENATOR ABATE:  All right.  Thank











                                                             
7311

         1       you.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        10       the results when tabulated.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        12       the negative on Calendar 317 are Senators Abate,

        13       Dollinger, Kruger, Leichter, Montgomery,

        14       Paterson and Smith.  Ayes 50, nays 7.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        18       Johnson.

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        20       is there any further housekeeping to be taken up

        21       at this time?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The desk

        23       tells me that all the housekeeping has been











                                                             
7312

         1       taken care of, Senator Johnson.

         2                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         3       then, at this time I move that we adjourn to

         4       reconvene tomorrow morning at 10:00 o'clock,

         5       10:00 a.m.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

         8       tomorrow, Friday, June 2nd, at 10:00 a.m.  Note

         9       the time change, 10:00 a.m.

        10                      (Whereupon at 9:45 p.m., the

        11       Senate adjourned.)

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16