Regular Session - June 6, 1995
7820
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7 ALBANY, NEW YORK
8 June 6, 1995
9 10:00 a.m.
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12 REGULAR SESSION
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16 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
17 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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7821
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
3 will come to order. Ask the members to take
4 their chairs; staff to find their places. I
5 would ask everybody to rise in the chamber and
6 join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the Senate and those
8 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to
9 the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may we
11 bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (Whereupon, there was a moment of
13 silence.)
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, June 5. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment, Senator Hoblock in the Chair upon
18 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer
19 by The Reverend Father Peter G. Young, Blessed
20 Sacrament Church, Bolton Landing. The Journal
21 of Sunday, June 4, was read and approved. On
22 motion, Senate adjourned.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
7822
1 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
2 read.
3 Presentation of petitions.
4 Messages from the Assembly.
5 Messages from the Governor.
6 Reports of standing committees.
7 Senator Bruno.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe there
9 is a report from the Rules Committee. Can we
10 have it read, please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You are
12 absolutely correct, Senator Skelos. I will ask
13 the Secretary to read the report from the Rules
14 Committee.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
16 from the Committee on Rules reports the
17 following bills:
18 Senate Print 523A, by Senator
19 Skelos, an act to amend the Executive Law, the
20 Tax Law and the Finance Law, in relation to
21 missing children;
22 1015, by Senator Cook, an act to
23 amend the Highway Law, in relation to bridges in
7823
1 the County of Delaware;
2 1310, by Senator Farley, an act
3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
4 to permitting senior citizens to pay taxes in
5 installments;
6 2187, by Senator Johnson, an act
7 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
8 relation to strengthening the standards
9 regulating excessive noise;
10 2350A, by Senator Cook, an act to
11 amend the Executive Law, in relation to reports
12 by registered charitable organizations;
13 2402, by Senator Johnson, an act
14 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
15 to granting partial exemption;
16 3110, by Senator Hoblock, an act
17 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the
18 amount of unemployment benefits;
19 3625, by Senator Santiago, an act
20 authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its
21 interest in certain real property;
22 3662, by Senator Trunzo, an act
23 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,
7824
1 in relation to individuals who make application
2 for ordinary and accidental disability
3 retirement benefits;
4 3830A, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
5 amend the Public Officers Law and the Town Law,
6 in relation to eliminating the residency
7 requirement;
8 3857, by Senator Libous, an act
9 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
10 authorizing the Office of Advocate for Persons
11 with Disabilities;
12 3897A, by Senator Libous, an act
13 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and Chapter 744
14 of the Laws of 1992, amending the Mental Hygiene
15 Law;
16 3956A, by Senator Trunzo, an act
17 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,
18 in relation to establishment of retirement
19 programs;
20 4130, by Senator Trunzo, an act
21 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
22 benefits provided;
23 4435, by Senator Maziarz, an act
7825
1 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
2 relation to fees received by county clerks;
3 4440, by Senator Libous, an act
4 to amend the Education Law, in relation to
5 vocational rehabilitation, creating the New York
6 State Office for the Blind and Visually
7 Impaired;
8 4442, by Senator Libous, an act
9 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
10 requiring consent;
11 4519, by Senator Libous, an act
12 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to
13 periodic orientation;
14 4584, by Senator Hoblock, an act
15 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
16 developing a policy and a report;
17 4631, by Senator Libous, an act
18 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to
19 memberships of the boards of visitors;
20 4634A, by Senator Holland, an act
21 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, the
22 State Finance Law and Chapter 115 of the Laws of
23 1894, relating to the better protection of lost
7826
1 and strayed animals;
2 4849, by Senator Trunzo, an act
3 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,
4 in relation to retirement allowance options;
5 5044A, by Senator Wright, an act
6 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
7 to the powers and duties of the Port of Oswego
8 Authority;
9 5062A, by Senator Levy, an act to
10 amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation to
11 the acquisition of real property;
12 5120, by Senator Farley, an act
13 to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
14 establishing limitations;
15 5205, by Senator Farley, an act
16 to authorize certain participating employers to
17 elect to provide the retirement incentive
18 provided;
19 5250, by Senator Sears, an act to
20 legalize, validate, ratify and confirm the acts
21 and proceedings of the board of trustees of the
22 Village of Vernon, Oneida County;
23 All bills ordered directly for
7827
1 third reading.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
3 objection, all bills are reported directly to
4 third reading.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Rath.
12 SENATOR RATH: On page 34, I'd
13 like to put a sponsor star on Calendar 947.
14 Thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, a sponsor star is placed on Calendar
17 Number 947.
18 Senator Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
20 President. On behalf of Senator Stafford, I
21 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 1551A,
22 which was recalled from the Assembly which is
23 now at the desk.
7828
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the title.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 350, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1551A, an act
5 making appropriations for the support of
6 government.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Farley.
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
10 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
11 bill was passed.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
14 (The Secretary called the roll on
15 reconsideration.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is before the house.
19 Senator Farley.
20 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
21 I now offer the following amendments to that
22 bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
7829
1 Amendments received and adopted. The bill will
2 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
3 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
4 Senator Libous, on page 12, I offer the
5 following amendments to Calendar 500 -
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: You're welcome.
8 -- Senate Print 2617, and I ask that that bill
9 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
11 Amendments to Calendar Number 500 are received
12 and adopted; and the bill, despite Senator
13 Libous, will retain its place on the Third
14 Reading Calendar.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
16 On behalf of Senator DiCarlo, on page 42, I
17 offer the following amendments to Calendar 449,
18 Senate Print 4014, and I ask that that bill
19 retain its place.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
21 Amendments to Calendar Number 449 are received
22 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
23 the Third Reading Calendar.
7830
1 Senator Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
3 There will be an immediate meeting of the
4 Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An
6 immediate meeting of the Senate Finance
7 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
8 332. An immediate meeting of the Senate Finance
9 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
10 332.
11 Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
13 I move we adopt the Resolution Calendar with the
14 exception of Resolutions Number 1529, 1530 and
15 1513.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 motion is to adopt the resolution calendar with
18 the exception of Resolutions Number 1513, 1529
19 and 1530. All those in favor, signify by saying
20 aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (There was no response.)
7831
1 The Resolution Calendar is
2 adopted.
3 Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 I believe there is a Resolution 1529, sponsored
6 by Senator Libous, at the desk. I ask that it
7 be read in its entirety and adopted and that you
8 recognize Senator Libous for some comments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Skelos, there is a privileged resolution by
11 Senator Skelos at the desk. I will ask the
12 Secretary to read Resolution 1529 in its
13 entirety.
14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
15 Libous, Legislative Resolution commemorating
16 Tuesday, June 6, 1995 as Legislative Disability
17 Awareness Day in the State of New York.
18 Whereas, the New York State
19 Senate Select Committee on the Disabled in
20 conjunction with the New York State Assembly
21 Task Force on People with Disabilities is
22 sponsoring the 15th Annual Legislative
23 Disability Awareness Day; and
7832
1 Whereas, it is the sense of this
2 Legislative Body that persons with disabilities
3 merit our recognition as they realize the goals
4 of inclusion and equality in our communities and
5 society at large; and
6 Whereas, it is the intent of this
7 Legislative Body to recognize persons with
8 disabilities, accentuating, in turn, the benefit
9 to New York State of their contributions to our
10 economic, educational, and social growth;
11 Legislative Disability Awareness
12 Day so clearly labors for the positive and
13 salutary definition of the communities of the
14 State of New York;
15 Legislative Disability Awareness
16 Day will conclude with this Legislative Body
17 considering legislation significant to persons
18 with disabilities; and
19 Whereas, Legislative Disability
20 Awareness Day provides individuals with an
21 opportunity to acknowledge and understand the
22 legislative process; now, therefore, be it
23 Resolved, that this Legislative
7833
1 Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate
2 Tuesday, June 6, 1995, as Legislative Disability
3 Awareness Day at the State Capitol, Albany, New
4 York, fully confident that such procedure
5 mirrors our shared commitment to the
6 efflorescence of human dignity; and be it
7 further
8 Resolved, that copies of this
9 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
10 to selected representatives of persons with
11 disabilities.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
13 recognizes Senator Libous on the resolution.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 As was stated by the clerk, today
17 is the 15th Annual Legislative Disability
18 Awareness Day that the Senate and the Assembly
19 are sponsoring together. The day kicks off a
20 little bit different today.
21 Right now in the Senate chamber,
22 because we've changed the time of session, we
23 will honor the people that are involved, and
7834
1 we're also going to do a special resolution
2 honoring Wendy Petzold, who is with me here
3 today who is Ms. Wheelchair America.
4 And then we'll go downstairs at
5 11:00 o'clock, and Wendy will give a speech. We
6 will also meet with a number of the exhibitors,
7 and the purpose of today's ceremony is to make
8 people in New York State, my colleagues here in
9 the Legislature, aware of the concerns of people
10 with disabilities.
11 You know, Mr. President, every
12 year we've had this day. I am extremely proud
13 to be chairman of the Select Committee on the
14 Disabled and find that each year a few more of
15 my colleagues come up to me after the ceremony
16 and ask me a few questions about dealing with
17 people with disabilities and the different kinds
18 of laws that we need to change to make their
19 lives a little bit more easier and making access
20 for them much more easier.
21 This is an education process,
22 Wendy and I were talking about it earlier this
23 morning, as she does her crusade throughout the
7835
1 United States as Ms. Wheelchair America and
2 talking about people with disabilities and what
3 things can be changed in state legislatures like
4 here in New York State.
5 It's an awareness process. It's
6 a process that we as individuals take for
7 granted. Those of us who lead a regular
8 physical life that does not have any of us
9 mentally or physically challenged, we take for
10 granted that people have to live in wheelchairs,
11 that people have physical and mental
12 disabilities that do not allow them
13 accessibility, that do not allow them the
14 everyday occurrences that we take for granted.
15 So today's day is Legislative
16 Disability Awareness Day, and the resolution
17 that was just read on the floor is one to make
18 you and I a little bit more aware that people
19 with disabilities do have a challenge and that
20 it is up to us to work with them as state
21 legislators and change those laws, and that we
22 will continue to move forward with legislation
23 and resolutions such as this as we continue to
7836
1 do what we can in New York State to help people
2 with disabilities.
3 So, Mr. President, I would ask
4 that we pass this resolution, and then I would
5 ask if you could call on me again for another
6 brief statement.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 question is on the resolution, Resolution Number
9 1529.
10 All those in favor, signify by
11 saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (There was no response.)
15 The resolution is unanimously
16 adopted.
17 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe there
19 is a Resolution 1530, sponsored by Senator
20 Libous, at the desk. I ask that it be read in
21 its entirety and adopted and that Senator Libous
22 be recognized.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
7837
1 a privileged resolution by Senator Libous at the
2 desk. I'll ask the Secretary to read Resolution
3 Number 1530 in its entirety.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
5 Libous, Legislative Resolution honoring Mrs.
6 Wendy Petzold of Sheboygan, Wisconsin, Ms.
7 Wheelchair America of 1994-95, upon the occasion
8 of her appearance as Guest of Honor at
9 ceremonies marking the New York State
10 Legislative Disability Awareness Day, June 6,
11 1995.
12 Whereas, community awareness and
13 acceptance of persons who are disabled serves to
14 lift barriers and expand choices for persons of
15 all abilities; and
16 Whereas, it is the intent of this
17 Legislative Body to recognize individuals with
18 disabilities who have put aside those conditions
19 which might otherwise hinder a purposeful life
20 of achievement and fulfillment, demonstrating
21 that the barriers to success for persons who are
22 disabled come more commonly from prevailing
23 attitudes and opportunities than the physical
7838
1 limitations of a disability; and
2 Whereas, Wendy Petzold, a
3 23-year-old senior at the University of
4 Wisconsin-Milwaukee, has demonstrated great
5 courage, character and determination in
6 overcoming the trauma of a serious automobile
7 accident which severed her spinal cord and
8 confined her to a wheelchair;
9 An honor student and former
10 athlete, Wendy Petzold responded with uncommon
11 determination to her 1989 accident; returning to
12 her high school within six months, she mastered
13 her wheelchair and resumed an active lifestyle,
14 participating as a member of the Student Council
15 and several other school groups, as a Junior
16 Rotarian, volunteering with Teens Helping Teens
17 and serving as the manager for her school's
18 track team;
19 Marrying her high school sweet
20 heart, Andy, in 1992, Wendy again demonstrated
21 her fortitude by conquering the challenges of
22 leg braces, a walker and agonizing months of
23 therapy to fulfill her goal, walking down the
7839
1 aisle on her wedding day;
2 Completing her senior year at
3 college, Wendy Petzold now continues her quest
4 for fulfillment, accepting each of life's
5 obstacles as a challenge; she drives her own
6 car, plays tennis in her wheelchair, swims,
7 SCUBA dives and water skis, while also devoting
8 countless hours in volunteer work, assisting the
9 disabled of her community; and
10 Whereas, Wendy Petzold was chosen
11 Ms. Wheelchair America from among the best and
12 brightest of America's young women confined to
13 wheelchairs, selected as the most accomplished
14 and articulate among the young women competing,
15 she now serves as spokesperson for the millions
16 of citizens with disabilities, educating the
17 able-bodied public regarding their dignity,
18 productiveness and value, and championing the
19 cause to eliminate the architectural and
20 attitudinal barriers preventing persons with
21 disabilities from assuming their rightful place
22 in society;
23 An able spokesperson and an
7840
1 inspiration to all who would strive to achieve
2 the best within them, Wendy Petzold now prepares
3 for her return to private life and her chosen
4 career as a teacher; her past tragedy and
5 subsequent achievements remaining as a vivid and
6 moving tapestry of opportunity for the
7 physically disabled; now, therefore, be it
8 Resolved, that this Legislative
9 Body pause in its deliberations to honor and
10 commend Ms. Wendy Petzold, Ms. Wheelchair
11 America, recognizing her courageous endeavors,
12 outstanding achievements and unparalleled
13 contributions on behalf of people with
14 disabilities, and their cause for increased
15 awareness and opportunity, upon the occasion of
16 her appearance as Guest of Honor at the New York
17 State Legislature on Disability Awareness Day,
18 June 6, 1995; and be it further
19 Resolved, that a copy of this
20 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
21 to Mrs. Wendy Petzold of Sheboygan, Wisconsin.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
23 recognizes Senator Libous on the resolution.
7841
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 As was stated in the resolution,
4 it is indeed an honor for us to have Wendy
5 Petzold with us today. As was mentioned, Wendy
6 travels the country in her role as Ms.
7 Wheelchair America but in a different role than
8 one would think and one in which she is an
9 advocate for people with disabilities. She
10 travels this country and goes to state houses,
11 state legislatures, works in community groups
12 and she is always working to improve life for
13 people with disabilities. That goes in line
14 with her title as Ms. Wheelchair of America.
15 As was mentioned, you know, after
16 she sustained disabling injuries in a serious
17 automobile accident, Wendy overcame the many
18 obstacles in her path to continue her education
19 and to prepare to become a teacher, and that's
20 what she will be doing when she graduates.
21 She is an honor student and
22 member of the Student Council at the University
23 of Wisconsin. She is a tennis player, water
7842
1 skier and a SCUBA diver. That tells us even
2 more that people with disabilities lead no
3 different a life than you and I.
4 She has demonstrated great
5 fortitude in undergoing the challenge of leg
6 braces and the months of intensive therapy as
7 she began recovering from her disability and her
8 very tragic accident.
9 Mr. President. I have had the
10 pleasure of spending the last couple of hours
11 with Wendy and finding her not only to be a
12 delightful individual but one who really cares
13 and one who is really on a crusade to help
14 change the lives of people with disabilities and
15 help to inform those of us, as I mentioned
16 earlier, who really don't understand what it's
17 like to live with a disability, to make that
18 understanding much clearer in the way that we
19 who have the power and authority as legislators
20 to begin the process to change legislation so
21 that we can change the lives of those people
22 with disabilities.
23 So, Mr. President, it is, indeed,
7843
1 an honor for me to stand before this body today
2 in honoring Wendy Petzold to join us here in New
3 York State.
4 And before I close, Mr.
5 President, at 11:00 o'clock, Wendy will be
6 giving an address, a speech, on the third floor
7 terrace. There will be many exhibitors there,
8 people who deal with different programs with
9 people with disabilities. We expect quite a few
10 people. Wendy will be delivering a speech at
11 11:00, and I would ask my colleagues if they can
12 take a couple minutes away from the chamber, as
13 I can see many have presently, that they might
14 have the opportunity to listen to Wendy and hear
15 her remarks. I will be there and I would hope
16 that many can join us.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 question is on the resolution.
20 All those in favor of the
21 resolution signify by saying aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 Opposed, nay.
7844
1 (There was no response.)
2 The resolution is unanimously
3 adopted.
4 Wendy, on behalf of Senator
5 Joseph Bruno, Senator Libous, and all of the
6 members of the house, let me welcome you to New
7 York. Certainly, you have changed your life
8 around as a result of a tragic consequence. You
9 are an inspiration to all of us. Let me have
10 you know that.
11 Keep doing the right things that
12 you are doing. Make us all proud of you. We
13 know you will.
14 Thanks again for taking a minute
15 out of your life to join us. Thank you for
16 being with us.
17 (Applause.)
18 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
20 I believe there are two privileged resolutions
21 by Senator Nozzolio at the desk, 1541 and 1542.
22 I ask that the titles be read and both of them
23 adopted.
7845
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I ask the
2 Secretary to read the title of 1541 first.
3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
4 Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution commending
5 Gustavus C. Wehrlin upon the occasion of his
6 designation as recipient of the 1995 FANY Fire
7 Service Achievement Award on June 8, 1995.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
9 is on the resolution.
10 All those in favor, signify by
11 saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (There was no response.)
15 The resolution is adopted.
16 Secretary will read the title of
17 Resolution Number 1542.
18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
19 Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution praising the
20 value of the Seneca Army Depot and memorializing
21 the Base Realignment and Closure Commission to
22 consider the depot for realignment.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7846
1 question is on the Resolution, 1542.
2 All those in favor, signify by
3 saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The resolution is adopted.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time, if
10 we could take up the noncontroversial calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the noncontroversial calendar.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 330, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1554B, an act
15 making appropriations for the support of
16 government.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 764, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 2587A, an
22 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in
23 relation to providing a cause of action to
7847
1 recover damages.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3 will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
5 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 832, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4470, an
14 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
15 distributing the name of inactive voters.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 836, by Member of the Assembly Galef, Assembly
21 Print 4887, an act to amend the Election Law, in
22 relation to the requirement to publish proposed
23 constitutional amendments.
7848
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 861, by Senator Spano.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
14 the day.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
16 bill aside for the day.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 865, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 4432, an
19 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
20 relation to proof of notice.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
22 will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
7849
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 867, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4717, an act
10 to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to
11 requiring airport owners to notify the
12 Department of Transportation.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority
16 Leader, Senator Paterson.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 906, by Senator Sears Senate Print 1226.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
20 temporarily.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7850
1 938, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4037.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
3 temporarily.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5 bill aside temporarily.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 947, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3014, an act
8 to amend the Domestic Relations Law and others,
9 in relation to altering the phrase natural
10 parent.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
12 Number 947 was starred at the request of the
13 sponsor earlier this morning.
14 Secretary will continue to call
15 the noncontroversial calendar.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 948, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3469, an
18 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to
19 certain reports.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
7851
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 955, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4219A, an
9 act to amend the Family Court Act and the Social
10 Services Law, in relation to the frequency of
11 review.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
15 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 958, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4987A, an
7852
1 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the
2 Family Court Act and the Criminal Procedure Law,
3 in relation to conditions of orders of
4 protection.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This
8 act shall take effect on the first day of
9 November.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1045, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5069.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
20 a home rule message at the desk.
21 Lay the bill aside at the request
22 of Senator Paterson.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7853
1 1107, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4673.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
3 amendment.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5 bill aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1111, by Senator Saland.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
10 bill aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1116, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5237, an
13 act to amend the General Business Law and the
14 Personal Property Law, in relation to
15 cancellation of personal emergency response
16 service agreements.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
18 will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect on the first day of
21 September.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
7854
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 Senator Skelos, that completes
6 the noncontroversial calendar on Regular
7 Calendar Number 60.
8 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
10 With the consent of the Minority, there are two
11 bills on the regular calendar, 906 and 938 and
12 then a series of bills by Senator Libous on the
13 first supplemental calendar. If we could take
14 them all up at this time, again, like I said
15 with the consent of the Minority, Senator Libous
16 will explain the bills.
17 Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the
19 benefit of the members, we will be taking the
20 following bills in this order: Calendar Number
21 906, Calendar Number 938, both of those bills
22 appear on Regular Calendar Number 60. Then we
23 will be taking up Calendar Numbers 1119, 1122,
7855
1 1127, 1128, 1132, 1133, 1134 and 1136. All of
2 those bills are on the Supplemental Calendar
3 Number 1 for today.
4 I ask the Secretary to begin
5 adopting those bills by calling the title to
6 Calendar Number 906.
7 THE SECRETARY: On page 29,
8 Calendar Number 906, by Senator Sears, Senate
9 Print 1226, an act to amend the Tax Law, in
10 relation to granting sales and compensating use
11 taxes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
13 local fiscal impact note at the desk. I will
14 ask the Secretary to read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect in 60 days.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7856
1 938, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4037, an
2 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
3 authorizing a tax credit for employing
4 individuals.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1119, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1310, an
17 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
18 relation to permitting senior citizens to pay
19 taxes in installments.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
23 act shall take effect on the first day of
7857
1 January.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1122, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2402, an
10 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
11 relation to granting partial exemption from
12 taxation to persons who are totally or
13 permanently disabled.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
7858
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1127, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3857, an
3 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
4 authorizing the Office of Advocate for Persons
5 with Disabilities.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1128, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3897A, an
18 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and Chapter
19 744 of the Laws of 1992, amending the Mental
20 Hygiene Law, relating to the operation of the
21 surrogate decision-making program.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will read the last section.
7859
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1132, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4440, an
11 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
12 vocational rehabilitation in creating the New
13 York State Office for the Blind and Visually
14 Impaired.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 21. This
18 act shall take effect on the first day of
19 January.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
7860
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1133, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4442, an
5 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
6 to requiring consent for visual observation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
8 will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1134, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4519, an
19 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation
20 to periodic orientation, training and
21 informational programs.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will read the last section.
7861
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1136, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4631, an
11 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation
12 to memberships of Boards of Visitors for
13 facilities under the jurisdiction of the Office
14 of Mental Retardation and Developmental
15 Disabilities.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
7862
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 At this time if we could take up supplemental
6 Calendar Number 1, noncontroversial.
7 (There was a pause in the
8 proceedings.)
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
11 recognizes Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
13 instead take up the regular calendar,
14 controversial.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will
16 ask the Secretary to read the controversial
17 calendar, Calendar Number 60.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 330, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1554B.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside temporarily.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7863
1 832, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4470, an
2 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
3 distributing the names of inactive voters to the
4 polling places in the county of Suffolk.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
7 temporarily.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside temporarily.
10 Secretary will continue to call
11 the controversial calendar.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 861, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3975B.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
15 amendments.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside for amendment.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
19 Call up Calendar Number 832.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. I
21 ask the secretary to call up Calendar Number
22 832.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7864
1 832, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4470, an
2 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
3 distributing the names of inactive voters.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Johnson, an explanation for Calendar 832 has
7 been asked for by the Acting Minority Leader
8 Senator Paterson.
9 SENATOR JOHNSON: Under the
10 present system, if people are inactive, there is
11 no registry at the polls indicating their
12 status. They are totally not registered at
13 all. It's very difficult for those people to
14 vote. They have to vote by ballot.
15 So this provision would provide
16 that there will be a list maintained at the
17 polls for inactive voters so that we know they
18 were formerly registered at a certain address,
19 and they can come in and, instead of voting by
20 affidavit, they can just swear who they are and
21 they can vote on the machine like everyone
22 else.
23 It simplifies the process, makes
7865
1 it a lot easier to tabulate the votes and,
2 generally speaking, is consistent with the
3 computerized system which exists in Suffolk
4 County. Essentially, I say the bottom line is
5 it makes it easier for people to vote where
6 there is an error in their registration or
7 something.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
11 if Senator Johnson will yield for a question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Johnson, do you yield to a question from Senator
14 Paterson?
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Therefore,
19 Senator Johnson, through your explanation, what
20 I gather is that if a person comes in and votes,
21 then this is the way they can reactivate their
22 registered status. Correct?
23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Correct.
7866
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, does
2 this exist in any other part of the state, what
3 you propose to do with the inactive list?
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, it's
5 interesting. Everything on Long Island seems to
6 be hyphenated Nassau-Suffolk. So the natural
7 question is why does Suffolk need it and not
8 Nassau? Because Suffolk County is fully
9 computerized in their system and Nassau isn't,
10 and we don't have the personnel because of the
11 computerization to count 10,000 paper ballots if
12 they came in, so we're making it easier for
13 people to vote on the machine, in addition to
14 which, you might recollect or you might
15 postulate that a person who is asked to sign a
16 paper ballot and vote would be intimidated,
17 where to vote on the machine they're not feeling
18 intimidated, so it's easier for them. It's
19 easier for the board.
20 As you can see, we got bipartisan
21 support, both parties in Suffolk County, the
22 Election Commission. Both parties agree this is
23 a simplified way to make it easier for people to
7867
1 vote.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
5 Johnson, that being the case and there are other
6 areas that -- there is a difference between
7 Nassau and Suffolk, but there are other areas
8 that are like both. Have you given any thought
9 to just making this a law statewide?
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I'm not
11 sure how it would affect other counties, and I
12 don't know if it would be responsible for me to
13 do that.
14 In this case, the county
15 legislature sent a message requesting this, the
16 commissioners. It's a unique situation, I know,
17 in our county, but if there are other counties
18 with the same situation, they should certainly
19 look into doing this to expedite the voting of
20 the people.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: I think that
7868
1 perhaps -- on the bill, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Paterson on the bill.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: I think it
5 might be a good idea to make it optional, but I
6 can understand that Senator Johnson wrote the
7 bill in this way not being familiar with the
8 operations in other counties.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
17 the results when tabulated.
18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar 832 are Senators
20 DiCarlo and Smith. Ayes 42. Nays 2.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 The Chair recognizes Senator
7869
1 Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
3 If we could return to reports of standing
4 committees, I believe there is a report from the
5 Finance Committee, one confirmation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Skelos, there is a report of the Finance
8 Committee here. I will ask the Secretary to
9 read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford
11 from the Committee on Finance reports the
12 following nomination:
13 Richard Warrender of Marcellus,
14 State Advocate for Persons with Disabilities.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept
16 the report of the Finance Committee.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 motion is to accept the report of the Finance
19 Committee. All those in favor, signify by
20 saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (There was no response.)
7870
1 The report is accepted.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 would you recognize Senator Libous?
4 Would you recognize Senator
5 Stafford, please?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the nomination first and put it on the
8 floor.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford
10 from the Committee on Finance reports the
11 following nomination:
12 Richard Warrender of Marcellus,
13 State Advocate for Persons with Disabilities.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 confirmation is before the house.
16 The Chair recognizes Senator
17 Stafford.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
19 President. Before Senator Libous moves the
20 confirmation -- he, of course, has worked
21 tirelessly in this field and has done so much
22 good work. I know practically all of us know
23 Dick Warrender. He has worked here in the
7871
1 Legislature. He's been a friend to all of us.
2 We know he will do a tremendous job, and here I
3 go again.
4 When we've had these nominees
5 come before us, I say, "This is one of the best
6 nominees that I have seen come before the
7 Senate," and this is another one, an excellent
8 choice by the Governor who I know will do a
9 tremendous job, and I certainly yield to Senator
10 Libous.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
12 recognizes Senator Libous on the confirmation.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
14 President. Thank you, Senator Stafford.
15 Mr. President. It is an honor
16 for me to rise to speak on the confirmation of
17 Richard Warrender as the new State Advocate for
18 Persons with Disabilities.
19 As was mentioned, I think the
20 Governor, again, has made a very excellent
21 choice.
22 This is kind of a special honor
23 for me. When I first came to Albany about six
7872
1 and a half years ago, I first met Dick Warrender
2 and he, as I often said, would pull up next to
3 you in his motorized device, I guess is the best
4 way to put it, and he extended his hand, and he
5 said, "I am Dick Warrender and I hear your
6 family is in the grocery business." I said,
7 "Yes, my family is in the grocery business. I
8 grew up in it."
9 Dick, of course, was in his role
10 with the New York State Association of
11 Convenience Stores, and then Dick went on to
12 tell me all about my family's business, and he
13 then went on to tell me all about those who are
14 in the grocery business in the Southern Tier.
15 Actually, I learned more about my family
16 business from Dick than I thought I had already
17 known through my family.
18 It was kind of an enlightening
19 experience. I have enjoyed working with Dick on
20 issues not only for people with disabilities but
21 also on issues that affected convenience stores
22 in New York State.
23 Many people might ask what does
7873
1 the Advocate for the Disabled do? Dick
2 Warrender is going to be an excellent advocate
3 for the disabled because, basically, his office
4 is going to serve a number of important
5 functions as they deal with people with
6 disabilities in New York State. They are going
7 to administer federal programs that come
8 through. They are going to work with businesses
9 and state agencies in working on compliance as
10 it deals with people with disabilities,
11 assisting these businesses in government as they
12 work together in a comprehensive manner to help
13 people with disabilities.
14 Dick Warrender has done this all
15 of his life -- you know, as a member of the New
16 York Advisory Board of the Office of Vocational
17 Educational Services for individuals with
18 disabilities. He served as a member of the
19 Onondaga Council on the Disabled. He has worked
20 to improve programs for people with disabilities
21 and their families.
22 His efforts have been tireless;
23 and as the Advocate for the Disabled, he will
7874
1 not only work to assist every member of this
2 house and every member of the other house, but
3 he will be an advocate for every individual in
4 New York State with a disability, a person that
5 they can come to, an office leader that they can
6 come to, who needs help.
7 Mr. President. It is with great
8 pride and pleasure that I ask that we move the
9 nomination of Richard Warrender to be the next
10 Advocate for the Disabled for the State of New
11 York.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
13 would recognize Senator DeFrancisco on the
14 confirmation.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you,
16 Mr. President. I am very pleased to see that
17 this day has finally come. There has been a lot
18 of discussions over several weeks and a lot of
19 anticipation by Dick Warrender and his family.
20 I have known Dick Warrender for
21 some years now as a community advocate, and he
22 is the type of individual that when he sets his
23 sights on something, he gets it done. In fact,
7875
1 sometimes you get it done so he stops making
2 sure that he -- he contacts you on a daily or
3 hourly basis, and that's the type of person that
4 you need. That's what an advocate is.
5 An advocate for the disabled has
6 to have that ability not only to get access but
7 also to convince people that what he is
8 advocating for is the right thing to do, and he
9 has that ability. There is no question about
10 it.
11 His record of community service
12 is second to none. His disability has in no way
13 stopped him from being as active in community
14 services as anyone that is sitting in this house
15 today, and it is really refreshing to see that
16 example that he has given to everyone that
17 nothing is going to stop him from doing what he
18 thinks is important for his community, and now
19 his community encompasses the entire state of
20 New York.
21 I'm very pleased to stand up and
22 advocate for our new advocate, a friend and a
23 person that's going to do an absolutely
7876
1 outstanding job, and I look forward to the great
2 things that he is going to do for all the
3 citizens of the State of New York, and I'm
4 pleased to call him the new advocate and still
5 pleased to call him my friend.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 question is on the nomination of Richard
8 Warrender of Marcellus to the position of State
9 Advocate for Persons with Disabilities.
10 All those in favor of the
11 nomination, signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (There was no response.)
15 The nominee is confirmed.
16 Richard Warrender, on behalf of
17 Senator Bruno and all the members here,
18 congratulations on your confirmation.
19 We're pleased to have you with
20 us, and we know that you're pleased to have your
21 wife Joan, who is in the gallery along with your
22 daughter Edith and granddaughter Catherine with
23 you. You have a wonderful family.
7877
1 Good luck in your job. Thanks
2 for taking on the responsibility.
3 (Applause.)
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
6 At this time, if we could return to the regular
7 calendar and take up Senator Levy's bill,
8 Calendar Number 867.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read Calendar Number 867.
11 THE SECRETARY: On page 27,
12 Calendar Number 867, by Senator Levy, Senate
13 Print 4717, an act to amend the Transportation
14 Law, in relation to requiring airport owners to
15 notify the Department of Transportation.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read the last section.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Levy, an explanation is asked for by, I think,
21 three Senators on the Minority side. Pick any
22 one of Paterson, Stachowski, or Leichter to
23 address your explanation to.
7878
1 SENATOR LEVY: Thank you very
2 much. Senator Leichter is pleading innocent.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Levy, just a minute, if we might.
5 May we have a little order in the
6 chamber, please. I know there's a lot going on,
7 a lot of bills to be done. It's going to be a
8 long day, but we must, in order to have accurate
9 debate, be able to hear the person responding to
10 a question or presenting a bill. So if we can
11 just quiet it down. Staff take your
12 conversations out of the chamber. Members,
13 also.
14 Chair recognizes Senator Levy.
15 SENATOR LEVY: Thank you very
16 much, Mr. President.
17 Senator Paterson, earlier this
18 year the Commission on Critical Transportation
19 Choices issued a report on general aviation
20 entitled, "General Aviation: A Flight Plan For
21 Economic Prosperity." General aviation is
22 vitally important to the economy of the State of
23 New York, and it is a major factor in doing
7879
1 business in the State of New York because in our
2 general aviation airports Upstate, Western New
3 York, even in places like Long Island, general
4 aviation is the site where the business
5 community keeps its corporate jets so it is able
6 to fly from those airports to other parts of the
7 state and other parts of the country to do
8 business, as well as general aviation airports
9 are the location where business people using
10 corporate jets are coming from everywhere in the
11 country and other parts of the world to do
12 business in the State of New York. These
13 airports are also used for recreational
14 purposes.
15 Now, we've been working with the
16 New York State Association of Airport Managers
17 as well as the Association of Counties, and one
18 of the things that the airport managers have
19 brought to our attention and it was a part of
20 this report, and this bill is as a result of
21 those conversations both with the counties and
22 with the airport managers, is that, particularly
23 Upstate in the last ten years, small airports -
7880
1 small airports that are vital to those counties
2 and that have been in the hands of the private
3 sector, without any notice to the county or
4 other elected governmental officials, those
5 airports which have been so vital to the economy
6 of not only the county but the region have been
7 sold, sold and for non-airport purposes.
8 So what the airport managers have
9 said is, "Would you do legislation" -- the New
10 York State Department of Transportation has an
11 Aviation Department -- "and require notification
12 to the state before one of these general
13 aviation airports is sold so that the county
14 officials, the town officials, the village
15 officials, the elected officials like those that
16 serve in this body and the Assembly don't find
17 out about the sale of one of these airports
18 after the fact?"
19 And this bill really is to give
20 notice to everybody before the airport is sold
21 so government can step in; and if government
22 decides to do so, on a local level, they can
23 intervene and try to acquire that airport for
7881
1 governmental purposes before the airport is sold
2 so it is there to meet the needs that general
3 aviation fills in this state.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Paterson.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
7 President. That was a very fine explanation,
8 wouldn't you agree?
9 Well, either way, if Senator Levy
10 would yield to a question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Levy, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 yields.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy,
17 do you have a record of how many airports in
18 this state have actually closed at this point?
19 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. In our
20 report, we went into that, Senator. I would say
21 that in the last ten years, it was probably
22 close to ten general aviation airports.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: And the other
7882
1 question that I would have is what are the
2 federal regulations? What are the FAA
3 regulations for closing an airport?
4 SENATOR LEVY: There are none.
5 These are privately owned airports, and the ones
6 that have closed have primarily been Upstate.
7 To my knowledge, there are no federal aviation
8 requirements. These are not airports that are
9 being utilized for commercial aviation purposes
10 with scheduled flights. These are airports that
11 are being utilized for the purposes that I spoke
12 about in the explanation of the bill.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. I
14 didn't realize that, Senator. I guess the
15 question I would like to ask you -- if you would
16 continue to yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Levy, do you continue to yield?
19 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 continues to yield.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: When the
23 airports are actually open, is there any kind of
7883
1 record that is kept by the FAA that these
2 airports exist?
3 And the reason I'm asking the
4 question, to try to make it a little easier for
5 you, is that I just assumed that since the
6 crafts are in the air that for purposes of
7 commercial aviation it's just good to know where
8 private airports exist. Even at times because
9 of emergencies, it's just good to know where
10 there is an available landing field.
11 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson,
12 this bill doesn't deal with -- this isn't the
13 bill that deals with surveying and having a list
14 of general aviation airports in the state. What
15 this does is say that if you own an airport in
16 the State of New York, that before you sell it,
17 you are required to give notice to the State
18 Department of Transportation so, in turn,
19 elected officials and local governmental
20 officials will know that this airport is being
21 sold, so that government has the opportunity to
22 step in if they choose to do so and use the
23 powers of condemnation of the locality to take
7884
1 over that airport so that it will continue to
2 exist for that county, that town, or that
3 region.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Exactly,
5 Senator. That's exactly -- I understand what
6 the bill is saying, and all I'm asking you, and
7 I think you have answered the question, is that
8 the federal government is at this point not
9 involved in any of this; and so what I would
10 like to know is, up to the point that you wrote
11 this bill, does the state have any control over
12 this right now?
13 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson,
14 there is no requirement that somebody who owns
15 an airport before they dispose of it notify
16 anybody. This bill, when it's enacted into law
17 will impose that requirement on someone who owns
18 an airport, to notify the State Department of
19 Transportation.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Therefore, I
21 am correct in assuming that up to this point
22 there's actually been no governmental control
23 until the printing of this bill.
7885
1 SENATOR LEVY: This bill does not
2 relate to government control.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry,
4 Senator. I don't mean government control. What
5 I mean is just any kind of record keeping as to
6 when the airports close or where they even
7 exist.
8 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, there is
9 a companion bill that deals with existing, and I
10 have to tell you that the State Department of
11 Transportation could not provide us with a list
12 of all of the airports in the state. The other
13 piece of legislation dealt with that problem.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. On
15 the bill, Mr. President.
16 I guess Senator Levy has answered
17 the questions. It's actually a little bit
18 disturbing that there is so little information
19 available about this, and this bill apparently
20 will be of some benefit economically to the
21 state and also will give the state an
22 opportunity to become aware when these airports
23 are actually planning on closing, and I would
7886
1 imagine that the companion bill will establish
2 some record of their existence, and it's a new
3 area, one that I didn't understand, and I thank
4 Senator Levy for clearing it up.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
6 Dollinger, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
8 sponsor yield just to a couple quick questions?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
10 Levy, will you yield?
11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President. So I understand this bill, Mr.
14 Chairman, this bill only applies when the effect
15 of transfer is to have the property no longer be
16 used for aviation purposes -
17 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- so it's
19 only when it's being converted from aviation
20 uses to some other use?
21 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. That's
22 clearly set forth in the bill.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The transfer
7887
1 between one owner of the airport to a second
2 owner in which they would continue the
3 operations wouldn't apply?
4 SENATOR LEVY: The bill would not
5 apply to those circumstances.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
7 you, Mr. President. What is the effect of
8 failure to give that notice? Is there an
9 enforcement provision here?
10 SENATOR LEVY: It is purely a
11 notification bill. In other words, failure to
12 give notice would not affect the transfer.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. I'll just add one thing.
15 I know the Commission on Critical
16 Choices in transportation continues to do good
17 work, and I think this is a good piece, as well.
18 SENATOR LEVY: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
7888
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 bill is passed.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
9 call up Calendar Number 1045, by Senator
10 Present.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1045, by
14 Senator Present, Senate Print 5069, an act
15 authorizing the County of Chautauqua to
16 discontinue for reforestation purposes the use
17 of certain lands.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There
19 is a home rule message at the desk. An
20 explanation has been called for by Senator
21 Paterson. Senator Present.
22 SENATOR PRESENT: This would
23 allow Chautauqua County to transfer, to exchange
7889
1 some reforestation land in Chautauqua County
2 with a couple who inadvertently built their
3 house on 2.89 acres of reforestation land. The
4 county forester has determined the land to be
5 given in exchange of equal value or better
6 purposes to the county, and the county feels
7 this would be to their advantage and the
8 homeowner's advantage rather than have them
9 destroy their house or move it.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
11 Paterson, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
13 Present will yield for a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
15 Present will you yield?
16 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
18 Present yields.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Very quickly,
20 Senator. Has the land been a product of
21 reforestation previously, the one that's being
22 exchanged?
23 SENATOR PRESENT: The county
7890
1 owned land has been a portion of reforestation
2 land, yes.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: To your
4 knowledge, Senator, is this an equal exchange?
5 SENATOR PRESENT: I'm informed by
6 the county forester that it's to the advantage
7 of the county, the land they would receive,
8 because it's a hardwood stand.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Finally,
10 Senator, what is the cost of the exchange?
11 SENATOR PRESENT: No cost other
12 than the paperwork involved. It's determined
13 the value of both parcels is about $150.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: $150. Oh, if
15 I was getting paid regularly, I would take care
16 of that myself for you, Senator. Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7891
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
6 At this time the Minority has requested a 25
7 minute conference, so the Senate will stand at
8 ease until 11:30 a.m. sharp.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
10 Senate will stand at ease until 11:30 a.m.
11 sharp. The Minority will be conferencing in the
12 Minority Conference Room.
13 (Whereupon, at 11:05 a.m., the
14 Senate was at ease.)
15 (Whereupon, at 12:00 noon, the
16 Senate reconvened.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
18 will come to order.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
20 I believe there is a privileged resolution, by
21 Senator DeFrancisco, at the desk, Resolution
22 Number 1513. I ask that it be read in its
23 entirety and that Senator DeFrancisco be
7892
1 recognized and then the resolution adopted.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Skelos, I'm informed by the Secretary that there
4 is a privileged resolution at the desk, by
5 Senator DeFrancisco.
6 I ask the Secretary to read
7 Resolution Number 1513 in its entirety.
8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
9 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution, honoring 67
10 students at Tully High School of the Tully
11 Central School District for their participation
12 in the 49th Senate District "Good News! Good
13 Kids!" student recognition program.
14 Whereas, it is incumbent upon the
15 people of the State of New York to recognize and
16 acknowledge notable deeds performed by our
17 fellow citizens; and
18 Whereas, our country and our
19 state have endured and been made strong because
20 generations of Americans have traditionally felt
21 a sense of responsibility to their country, to
22 one another, to their families and for
23 themselves; and
7893
1 Whereas, all citizens must
2 recognize that the unsurpassed democratic
3 freedoms that have made our country so great
4 require each of us to reciprocate by exercising
5 the duties and responsibilities of good
6 citizenship; and
7 Whereas, it is the attitudes of
8 our children that will influence our future
9 course of government, and the future of our
10 society is dependent upon our instilling within
11 our children the concepts of individual
12 responsibility and good citizenship;
13 Throughout the State of New York
14 our young people are lovingly and thoughtfully
15 demonstrating a sense of civic and community
16 responsibility in a variety of socially oriented
17 projects for the betterment of their neighbors
18 and neighborhoods, while concurrently and
19 positively shaping the values of the
20 participants;
21 In acknowledgment of these acts
22 of sharing and nurturing undertaken by our
23 children, a student recognition program entitled
7894
1 "Good News! Good Kids!" was initiated in the
2 49th Senate district; and
3 Whereas, 22 projects involving
4 more than 2,500 students from within the 49th
5 Senate district were reviewed by educational and
6 community leaders serving as members of the
7 "Good News! Good Kids!" Advisory Committee; and
8 Whereas, the "Health Careers
9 Club" project implemented by 67 High School
10 students at Tully High School was selected as
11 the most impressive project submitted from the
12 High School level; and
13 Whereas, on Tuesday, June 6,
14 1995, the Tully High School students who
15 participated in the project will visit the
16 chamber of the New York State Senate; now,
17 therefore, be it
18 Resolved, that this Legislative
19 Body pause to express congratulations to the
20 residents of the Tully Central School District,
21 Superintendent Dr. Robert Urzillo, Tully High
22 School Principal Gary J. Heymann, and Tully High
23 School Nurse Lorraine Spaulding for their
7895
1 support and encouragement of the educational and
2 empathetic values so obviously instilled within
3 their student population; and be it further
4 Resolved, that copies of this
5 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
6 to the members of the Health Careers Club at
7 Tully High School for the unselfish sharing of
8 their natural gifts as responsible students and
9 citizens of the 49th Senate District.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
11 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the
12 resolution.
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr.
14 President. I'm proud to rise to honor the Tully
15 High School Health Career Club; and before I
16 forget, my good friend Senator Tully has agreed
17 to co-sponsor this resolution, for whom your
18 school is named. No (indicating "just
19 kidding").
20 This is part of the program that
21 we have in the 49th Senate District that
22 recognizes young people who are doing the good
23 things that we normally don't hear about. We
7896
1 hear about a lot of the negative things that are
2 going on and this is the type of thing that the
3 Health Careers Club has done in our county.
4 First, they sponsored two blood
5 mobiles and 30 percent of the senior class
6 participated in donating blood, and also the
7 class participated in seeking blood donors to
8 make two successful blood drives at the high
9 school.
10 They participate in an annual
11 canned food drive, which is done at
12 Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter, which also
13 has full participation from the group. Four
14 times a year they serve meals at a home at the
15 Rescue Mission, and the Rescue Mission provides
16 meals to indigent individuals during those
17 periods of time, and these students participate
18 in serving those foods.
19 They also sponsor a
20 multigenerational dance which includes senior
21 citizens down to high school students, which
22 also shows a sense of community.
23 All of these things point out the
7897
1 fact that there are good kids doing good things
2 in this state, and they should be recognized and
3 they are being recognized here today, and I
4 thank them for being here, and I urge unanimous
5 adoption.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 question is on the resolution. All those in
8 favor of the resolution, signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye.")
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The resolution is unanimously
13 adopted.
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
17 Is there any housekeeping at the desk?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a
19 substitution, I believe, at the desk and, also,
20 a motion that Senator Farley would like to make.
21 The chair recognizes Senator
22 Farley. Return to motions and resolutions.
23 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of my
7898
1 good friend Senator Marchi, on page 5, I offer
2 the following amendments to Calendar Number 165,
3 Senate Print 2198A, and I ask that Senator
4 Marchi's bill retain its place on the Third
5 Reading Calendar.
6 Do you agree, Mr. President?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 amendments to Calendar Number 164, which is on
9 page 5, by Senator Marchi, are received and
10 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the
11 Third Reading Calendar.
12 SENATOR FARLEY: I thought I was
13 going to lose that motion, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Well, you
15 were close, Senator Farley. Not only does the
16 nurse have an allergy testing program, they will
17 screen eyesight, too, if there's some question
18 about your ability to read the motion papers.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: What was wrong
20 with that?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the substitution.
23 You have another motion, Senator
7899
1 Farley?
2 SENATOR FARLEY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Oh!
4 Let's try again. Chair recognizes Senator
5 Farley.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
7 Senator Lack, I wish to call up his bill, Senate
8 Print 5230, which was recalled from the
9 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
11 will read the title.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1087, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5230, an act
14 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to authorizing
15 the County of Suffolk to impose an additional
16 1/4 of 1 percent sales and compensating use tax.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President.
20 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
21 bill was passed.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
7900
1 bill passed the house.
2 The Secretary will call the roll
3 on reconsideration.
4 (The Secretary called the roll on
5 reconsideration.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is before the house.
9 Senator Farley.
10 SENATOR FARLEY: I now offer the
11 following amendments.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
13 Amendments are received and adopted.
14 There is a substitution at the
15 desk. I ask the Secretary to read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella
17 moves to discharge from the Committee on Higher
18 Education Assembly Bill Number 882A and
19 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
20 977.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection, substitution is ordered.
23 Senator Skelos.
7901
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Senate will
2 stand at ease for several more minutes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senate will stand at ease.
5 (Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m., Senate
6 was at ease.)
7 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
8 immediate short conference of the Majority in
9 Room 332 of the Capitol.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate
11 meeting of the Majority Conference in the
12 Majority Conference Room, Room 332. The
13 Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
14 Senate stands at ease.
15 (Whereupon, at 12:16 p.m., Senate
16 continued at ease.)
17 (At 12:40 p.m., the following
18 announcement was made.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
20 Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
22 There will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
23 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. The
7902
1 Senate will stand at ease.
2 (Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., Senate
3 reconvened.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
5 will come to order. Members please take their
6 chairs, staff their places. Get the chamber in
7 order.
8 The chair recognizes Senator
9 Bruno.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
11 Can we return to the order of standing
12 committees. I believe there is a report from
13 the Rules Committee. We would like to have that
14 at this time.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
16 return to reports of standing committees. There
17 is a Rules report at the desk. Ask the
18 Secretary to read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
20 from the Committee on Rules reports the
21 following bill:
22 Senate Print 5280A, by the
23 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Public
7903
1 Health Law, the Social Services Law, Chapter 600
2 of the Laws of 1986 amending the Public Health
3 Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Bruno.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. I
7 move at this time that we adopt the report of
8 the Rules Committee.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 motion is to accept the report of the Rules
11 Committee. All those in favor, signify by
12 saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 Opposed, nay.
15 (There was no response.)
16 The Rules report is accepted, and
17 the bill is reported directly to third reading.
18 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
20 Can we at this time call up Calendar Number
21 1144.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
7904
1 1144.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1144, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
4 Print 5280A, an act to amend the Public Health
5 Law, the Social Services Law, and Chapter 600 of
6 the Laws of 1986, amending the Public Health
7 Law.
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
10 message at the desk?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
12 a message at the desk, Senator Bruno.
13 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we accept the
14 message at this time, Mr. President?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 motion is to accept the message of necessity
17 that is at the desk.
18 All those in favor, signify by
19 saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (There was no response.)
23 The message is accepted.
7905
1 Secretary will read the last
2 section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Paterson we're on controversial at this point.
8 Chair recognizes Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
11 President. Could I have an explanation of this
12 bill? Since I don't really know what the bill
13 is, I guess an explanation would be a good
14 start.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Holland is going to be handling the explanation,
17 Senator Paterson.
18 Senator Holland for an
19 explanation.
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President.
21 I'm going to spread it around a little bit.
22 Senator Hannon is going to do Medicaid. Senator
23 Saland is going to do children and family, and I
7906
1 will do welfare.
2 First of all, I will tell you a
3 little bit about welfare.
4 What is included in the bill is
5 Workfare, Learnfare to the sixth grade,
6 minorities living at home, three fraud pieces
7 recommended by the District Attorney of
8 Manhattan, and a limit of six months, basically,
9 if you come in from out of state, whether you
10 come in from out of state or you come in from
11 out of nation.
12 That's basically the welfare
13 package, and I think most all of us know what
14 are included in that.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Would Senator
18 Holland yield for a couple of questions?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Holland, do you yield?
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson, he does.
7907
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
2 Holland, my understanding is that the attendance
3 of school children from years 1 to 6, the first
4 to the sixth grade is not significantly -
5 there's not a significantly high evidence of
6 truancy. Is that not correct?
7 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm not sure
8 whether -
9 SENATOR PATERSON: In other
10 words, with the truancy that is rampant in a
11 number of school systems in our public system,
12 that really the problem doesn't begin until
13 junior high school. That's what I'm asking.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir, I
15 understand your question. I'm not sure exactly
16 what grade it starts in. It starts around that
17 sixth, seventh, eighth grade. If I had my
18 druthers, I would encourage this Learnfare
19 program to go longer than the sixth grade, but
20 we should try to get, in my estimation, the
21 young people and the parents used to them going
22 to school in the early grades, and so this is a
23 beginning.
7908
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I agree,
2 Senator. However, with it being from grades 1
3 to 6, at a point that the limitation that we
4 have established, for those students who are
5 absent from school in excess of that limitation,
6 wouldn't it be most likely that these are
7 actually due to medical or nutritional problems
8 that these children are having?
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Let me have the
10 last part of the question again, Senator? I'm
11 sorry.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the
13 question is, those situations where you have
14 children who are absent from school who have now
15 gone over the limitation that we have set forth
16 in this legislation, aren't they actually -
17 predominantly, isn't this problem being caused
18 due to health care problems or nutritional
19 deficiencies that are causing health care
20 problems rather than actual truancy?
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: There are many,
22 many excused absences in this proposal,
23 Senator. It is only unexcused absences of five
7909
1 per quarter that would kick in the Learnfare
2 problem. If they have sickness, they are
3 excused and it doesn't count in that five days.
4 Does that answer your question?
5 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand.
6 Then, Senator, since there is, what I'm saying,
7 a rather low level of truancy at this actual age
8 level, do you think it's a good idea to have it
9 there? I know what you are saying about
10 encouraging parents to make sure that their
11 children are in school but since -- in these
12 designations that we're actually addressing in
13 in budget bill, do you think that it's a good
14 idea to actually leave it there, since I don't
15 know that we're addressing that much of a
16 problem in grades one to six where the children
17 are approximately age 6 to 11 years old?
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, as I
19 said previously, I wanted to go much higher, to
20 the tenth or twelfth grade, but the Assembly
21 would not agree to that, and we agreed because
22 we think anything is an improvement. I would
23 love to see it progressive, sixth grade this
7910
1 year, seventh grade next year, eighth grade, et
2 cetera, et cetera, so that we encourage these
3 young people to go to the school.
4 I have to give you the same story
5 I've given to you before. Forty-three percent
6 of the high school students in the City of New
7 York graduate in four years of high school. We
8 are destroying, as far as my opinion is, the
9 young people, particularly of the City of New
10 York, because they do not go to school. If we
11 do not educate those people, we do not get
12 industry into the Bronx, Brooklyn, et cetera.
13 This is a start as far as I'm concerned. I
14 would love to see it go higher if that is the
15 purpose or the point of your question.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
17 Senator. Now, just to clarify, as long as the
18 student has excused absences, as long as the
19 student is really sick, then there could be
20 really an unlimited number of those absences.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: How do you
23 define an unexcused absence, Senator.
7911
1 SENATOR HOLLAND: There was a
2 list initially of excused absences which is not
3 included in the budget bill, I am told, but now
4 it is done by the individual school districts.
5 They decide what is an excused absence.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: I'd assume,
7 generally, that an unexcused absence is an
8 absence for which there is no explanation.
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Sounds
10 reasonable to me, Senator, yes, sir.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Pardon me,
12 just one second, Senator.
13 SENATOR HOLLAND: It's all
14 right.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
18 President. If Senator Holland would yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Holland, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 continues to yield.
7912
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, you
2 have been very helpful. Now, I'd like to ask
3 you a couple of questions about Learnfare in
4 year two. I'm interested in how many sites will
5 actually be located in the New York City area.
6 SENATOR HOLLAND: It's six the
7 first year, fifteen the second year -- that's
8 what you are asking about -- and six of them
9 would be in the City of New York the second
10 year, six out of the fifteen in the second year.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Can you give
12 me an estimate -- if the Senator will continue
13 to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Holland, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 continues to yield.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: -- an estimate
20 of what the cost for the 21 sites over the two
21 year period will be?
22 SENATOR HOLLAND: First year
23 estimate cost is $800,000. I don't know how
7913
1 they come to that, Senator, but that's what the
2 figures say.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: $800,000?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: All right.
6 Thank you, Senator.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Espada.
9 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
10 President. Just a question or two of Senator
11 Holland.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Holland, do you yield to Senator Espada?
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 yields.
17 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you,
18 Senator. The residency requirements and the
19 prohibition for payments to immigrants or
20 out-of-staters, the question to you is, are you
21 at all concerned, number one, about the
22 constitutionality of those provisions in this
23 bill? And, number two, no doubt that this will
7914
1 bring about some litigation; what would be the
2 cost to the State of New York for said
3 litigation?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: I imagine,
5 Senator, as you do, that it will be challenged.
6 Sorry, I do not know or have an estimate of the
7 cost to either side.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: As to the first
9 part, though, the constitutionality of those
10 provisions, are you at all concerned about
11 those, inasmuch as some of these have already
12 been tested in the court system and the Court
13 has spoken loud and clear on our constitutional
14 provisions that provide for the needy and don't
15 include residency requirements and the like.
16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir, I
17 believe that there will be some questions about
18 the item. People will take it to court, I'm
19 almost positive.
20 SENATOR ESPADA: With respect to
21 the total package, I hear you loud and clear on
22 the issue of Learnfare, on the issue of work
23 fare; and the political climate being what it
7915
1 is, we understand that things could have been a
2 whole lot worse given my perspective and many of
3 the Assembly Democrats, but if you had your
4 druthers -- and it is the phraseology that you
5 just used with respect to Learnfare -- but if
6 you had your druthers, what would you really do
7 that would insert some degree of positive
8 aspects to a woman and a child and a poor person
9 dependent on these programs being able to lead a
10 life of economic and personal independence?
11 I am having a very hard time
12 trying to find a single provision here that
13 doesn't result in a punitive sanction as opposed
14 to something that can help me as a poor person
15 get off the rolls, get a better education for my
16 children. When will we take that up, is my
17 question?
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: I guess,
19 Senator, my impression is that we are trying -
20 or we would like to put the family back
21 together. We would like to encourage personal
22 responsibility, and I believe that Workfare,
23 Learnfare, limits to the time that you can be -
7916
1 or limits to the amount of money that you can
2 earn and minors living at home is what we're
3 really trying to do.
4 I think it's -- it's taken us 30
5 to 40 years to destroy the family. One of the
6 other things that we have in here also is the -
7 encouraging child support payments that I guess
8 Senator Saland will talk about, and that's
9 requiring fathers to support their children
10 which should have happened a long time ago, and
11 these are things that I think -- the total
12 overall package is trying to put the family back
13 together, encourage the kids and parents to have
14 the children go to school and grow in a family
15 atmosphere, encouraging grandparents and
16 grandchildren to live together. That type of
17 thing is what we're looking for totally, and
18 that's what we hope the package will do in the
19 long haul.
20 SENATOR ESPADA: Through you, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Holland, do you continue to yield?
7917
1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 yields.
4 SENATOR ESPADA: Those are all
5 laudable goals, and they all really sound great
6 when they appear in the manuscript of the
7 "Contract with America." They sound great when
8 they appear on these bills. But when you
9 actually try to concretely go about living the
10 life of a poor person and engaging or
11 interfacing with these kinds of legislative
12 initiatives, what you find is, "Now I'm on
13 Workfare. Now I have a job. I'm at the
14 worksite. Everybody knows that I'm an HR,
15 welfare, Workfare recipient. The working person
16 that lost the job because I'm there hates my
17 guts. The people that are there, basically,
18 don't give me any respect because I'm
19 stigmatized; and in the end, when you really
20 analyze it, I'm earning way less than minimum
21 wage for my participation in the job market."
22 So the question really is, when
23 are we going to go about the job of really
7918
1 creating real personal responsibility as opposed
2 to stigmatizing people by way of making them
3 earn what they get off of the public dole?
4 The fact of the matter is that
5 most of these people want jobs. Do you think
6 there is a better approach that we can utilize
7 putting people through more training, putting
8 people through more college education programs,
9 than to subject them to that kind of continued
10 humiliation that in the end will not result in
11 any permanent career path or real job?
12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, as far
13 as the training goes, you know that nationally
14 and statewide we've had a number of training
15 programs; and if you talk to the Welfare
16 Inspector General, he will tell you that many of
17 those programs were rife with fraud. There was
18 fraud all over them. They were stealing from
19 us.
20 If you talk to some of the
21 clients -- and I believe that most of them want
22 to work. Most of them have a different opinion
23 than we do in this chamber and they do in the
7919
1 other chamber. Most of the people on welfare,
2 if they have a baby, they want to go to work
3 very quickly. They want to get a job, and I've
4 been down and talked to them with you and
5 Senator Waldon. So -
6 I lost my point. I lost my
7 point.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: The point is and
9 the reason why we get lost in the debate -- no
10 pun intended, but the reason is because we're
11 not really focusing in on what result we really
12 want.
13 My question to you is -- I
14 believe that you want people to get real jobs
15 that pay liveable living wages that they can
16 support a family on; and my whole problem with
17 this is that this framework opens the door for
18 more participation in Workfare but when I go
19 through that door and I try to go to some path
20 that will lead me to stable employment, I don't
21 get there.
22 And so maybe we should celebrate
23 about this thing and say, "Oh, this is great for
7920
1 New York and people are going to be put to work,
2 but what we really want is real results, and I'm
3 having a hard time getting to your goal through
4 this method.
5 And my question to you is, when
6 are we going to go about in this state really
7 taking on the real job of putting people in the
8 job market with real skills? I'm not talking
9 about the fraudulent type that rip off
10 government grants and that sort of thing. You
11 and I know about the good programs that are out
12 there waiting to receive more assistance.
13 If we were to invest in those, if
14 we were to accentuate the positive out there
15 instead of knocking people over the head, my
16 question to you is, don't you think we would get
17 a lot more people to remain in the job market
18 and to stabilize their families with that kind
19 of approach as opposed to what is in this
20 legislation?
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: I think we're
22 talking about the same thing. I think the
23 legislation is talking about the same thing,
7921
1 Senator. I think people who go to work, who
2 have a job, are better off. People who are
3 matched to a job that meets their educational
4 background, their matched abilities, their
5 likes, are much better off than people who are
6 forced into training programs that, really, they
7 don't have an interest in.
8 If somebody is forced into a
9 software job or a computer hardware job that
10 they don't like, it's a total waste of money and
11 time for the individual. I think that's what
12 we're trying to do here. Through Workfare we
13 are trying to match people with jobs that
14 matches their likes and their abilities. "Work
15 America" does that. Many other programs do
16 that, and I think people are better off if we
17 can get them into jobs, not into educational
18 programs that don't match their abilities, and
19 that's what we're trying to do.
20 We're trying to do two things.
21 We're trying to educate them, and we're trying
22 to get them jobs. Those are the basic two
23 things we'd love to do, and we don't want them
7922
1 staying on the public dole. We do not think
2 it's good for the taxpayers or good for the
3 people who are actually on the dole.
4 SENATOR ESPADA: One last
5 question, though you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
7 continue to yield, Senator Holland?
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 continues to yield.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: On the Workfare,
12 Senator Holland, you know, we put in a provision
13 to work in the not-for-profit sector and
14 government programs. Would you be at all
15 opposed to legislation that would essentially
16 encumber, obligate the UDC (the Urban
17 Development Corporation) that provides grants
18 and assistance, subsidies and the like, to
19 for-profit corporations? Would you at all be
20 adverse to having a requirement, a Workfare
21 provision, tied to those kinds of assistance
22 that we provide to for-profits that would really
23 pay living wages to welfare recipients to work
7923
1 in the private sector?
2 SENATOR HOLLAND: I would look at
3 anything, to tell you the truth, Senator, that
4 would put people to work and find them jobs that
5 they liked and would stay in.
6 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you,
7 Senator Holland, for yielding. Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
9 recognizes Senator Leichter.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
11 President. This is part of what I consider one
12 of the worst and most flawed budgets that we've
13 had and a budget that is going to do grievous
14 harm to New York State and that's going to bring
15 us back next year dealing with an impossible
16 deficit, where we're going to be forced to make
17 further cuts in basic services.
18 What this budget does is really
19 turn around the purpose and function of
20 government, which is to help the needy, the
21 poor, the disadvantaged, and makes the role of
22 government to supporting and helping the wealthy
23 and taking away essential programs for those who
7924
1 really have to rely on government for help and
2 protection.
3 This particular bill, of course,
4 is the centerpiece for many of the Republicans
5 because this is really the one that expresses
6 the scapegoating that you have been so involved
7 in, where the blame for all the deficit, the
8 blame for our economic problem. Who is to
9 blame? Well, it's those people on welfare.
10 It's the costs on welfare. All of the myths,
11 all the shibboleths, all the simplicity that has
12 driven the Republican right is represented to
13 such a large extent in this bill, and it would
14 be even much further if it weren't for a Speaker
15 who stood up against some of the excesses of the
16 Republican right.
17 But this whole idea that people
18 on welfare are the cause of the problems that we
19 have in this state, that they are the cause of
20 the deficit, of course, is sheer bunk; and the
21 idea that welfare is at the root of the breakup
22 of the family, as I just heard Senator Holland
23 say, of course, is expressive of the nonsense
7925
1 that drives the far right Republican
2 philosophy.
3 In fact, there was just a study,
4 Senator Holland, if you had read it, by the
5 United Nations that shows that the breakup of
6 the family happens to be a worldwide phenomena,
7 particularly in developed countries, has no
8 relationship whatsoever to welfare.
9 But that's the sort of
10 shibboleths and myths that we hear, and this is
11 the sort of bill we get, and to call this
12 "welfare reform" is the worst of misnomers.
13 There is no reform in here at
14 all. What you are essentially, basically doing
15 is cutting benefits. Is that reform? Oh, yes,
16 we're helping people. Senator Holland says
17 we're going to make them more self-reliant. You
18 know, make people hungry, they become reliant.
19 That's a wonderful thing.
20 That's how we're going to create
21 the family unit, by seeing that people go
22 hungry; and if, in fact, we'd had your
23 reductions in benefits, which you had initially,
7926
1 there is no question that we would have had
2 many, many people in this state who would have
3 gone hungry.
4 I don't know whatever happened to
5 that wonderful doctrine of F.D.R., the Four
6 Freedoms, which included the freedom from hunger
7 and the freedom from want and the freedom from
8 lack of shelter. That's really what our
9 government ought to aim at.
10 Is the welfare system a flawed
11 system? No question about it. Is it a failed
12 system? I would say that maybe our economy is
13 failed. Our society has some failures in it,
14 and certainly our government has failed. But I
15 think we need to look at who's on welfare, why
16 they are on welfare, what the problems are.
17 No question, we have many, many
18 dysfunctional people in this society. They
19 exist particularly in the urban areas. Many of
20 them come from minority backgrounds because of
21 the particular difficulties of problems that
22 minorities have traditionally had and still have
23 in our society. Can we make it better? No
7927
1 question about it. Can we try to move people to
2 work? Absolutely should be done.
3 But it requires more than
4 slogans. You can't just say "Workfare". That's
5 wonderful. Put people on welfare to work.
6 That's great. Who is against that? Everybody
7 is in favor of that.
8 How are you going to do it. How
9 are you going to deal with it? Where are the
10 jobs? How do you train people for it? Senator
11 Holland, that costs money.
12 That costs money; and the reason
13 we have made far less progress under the reforms
14 that Senator Moynihan pushed through the
15 Congress is because neither the federal
16 government nor the states have been willing to
17 put up the money that's required. If you are
18 going to take people who come from a very
19 troubled background and home situation, it's
20 going to require money.
21 There was an article in today's
22 Times about a particular school in New Jersey,
23 St. Anthony's, that takes these young people
7928
1 from these troubled backgrounds that ordinarily
2 or that traditionally in the last decades or so
3 have just continued on a life of welfare, but
4 trains them, educates them, and a very large
5 proportion of them now are going to college.
6 That program, by the way, is probably going to
7 be cut in New Jersey because it's part of their
8 so-called reform program there. That's the sort
9 of things that we need to be doing.
10 But I'll say this, Senator
11 Holland, and my other friends on the other side
12 who love to talk about welfare, you want to talk
13 about welfare? There is lot of welfare. We
14 give a lot of support in our society. I mean,
15 to listen to some of you, you would think that
16 all of you or the people you represent had made
17 it without any government help at all. It's
18 wonderful.
19 Well, you got veterans benefits.
20 Oh, well, that doesn't count. We subsidized the
21 growth of the suburbs. Oh, well, that doesn't
22 count. We provide all sorts of benefits to
23 corporations. Oh, well, that doesn't count.
7929
1 You take a look where a large amount of
2 subsidies and assistance goes in our society,
3 and it really goes to people who happen to be
4 fairly well off, and it has enabled these people
5 to reach that middle class status, which is
6 wonderful. It's wonderful that we've done
7 this.
8 But everything that I'm talking
9 about you consider sort of an entitlement
10 program. Interest deductions for homes in the
11 suburbs, where does it say that that's not
12 welfare? Why isn't that welfare? That benefits
13 you, benefits your constituents and, therefore,
14 it's an entitlement program. Why is that any
15 less welfare than when you take a poor family
16 and you say "I'm going to give you a shelter
17 allowance"? Do you know how much the state
18 spends in interest deductions? An enormous
19 amount, billions of dollars every year. I
20 happen to think, by and large, it's a good
21 investment, but what I dislike is that what you
22 have is entitlement but what people who are poor
23 and needy receive, that's a dole. That is a
7930
1 give-away. That's waste.
2 Take a look at the corporate
3 welfare. I issued a report, showed New York
4 State poured $1.2 billion in programs of
5 benefits to corporations, many of which did not
6 create jobs.
7 You want to apply the test of,
8 well, is it cost effective? Does it create
9 reliance? Does it achieve its purpose? That's
10 the test you apply on social welfare. You would
11 have to apply it to corporate welfare, other, at
12 the same point.
13 I'm also very concerned about
14 aspects of this bill -- I'm not going to get
15 into the details on it -- which are going to
16 make it that much more difficult for hospitals,
17 particularly in the urban areas, to provide
18 services. The cuts in Medicaid, some of the
19 other reductions in hospital programs, are
20 unquestionably going to create serious problems
21 not only in the urban areas but I think they are
22 going to create it in the rural areas. I think
23 you are going to find some of your small rural
7931
1 hospitals are going to close because of these
2 cuts in Medicaid. But I think essentially what
3 this bill reflects is the anti-urban, anti-poor
4 and anti-minority aspect which has driven so
5 much of this budget.
6 And if anybody gets up, and I'm
7 sure they will, and say, "We're achieving
8 welfare reform; we're achieving efficiency in
9 government," I think you are achieving none of
10 that or hardly any of that in this bill. I
11 shouldn't say none of it, because there are some
12 provisions that make sense -- certainly making
13 fathers pay for their children. There's other
14 things in there I think we can agree on, but the
15 main aspects of this are punitive. They are
16 purely and simply punitive. They scapegoat, and
17 I think this is a bill that I frankly am ashamed
18 of, and it's a budget that I'm ashamed of.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 246.
22 This act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7932
1 roll. Senator Espada to explain his vote?
2 SENATOR ESPADA: I have a
3 question.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Oh, okay.
5 Withdraw the roll call.
6 Senator Holland, do you yield to
7 another question?
8 Senator Espada.
9 SENATOR ESPADA: My question is
10 not of Senator Holland but of Senator Hannon on
11 the health component of the -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Hannon, do you yield to Senator Espada?
14 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 yields.
17 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you,
18 Senator Holland. Just one question, sir, on the
19 projected job loss that the implementation of
20 these various measures -- cost containment
21 measures will result in. What is your
22 projection of job loss in our state as a result
23 of these measures?
7933
1 SENATOR HANNON: I don't have
2 any.
3 SENATOR ESPADA: Pardon?
4 SENATOR HANNON: I don't have
5 any.
6 SENATOR ESPADA: Would you
7 consider your answer somewhat remiss in the fact
8 that this is a big part of the fiscal impact?
9 SENATOR HANNON: I would look at
10 it more in this way, Senator. We were faced
11 with an overwhelming deficit, and one of the
12 reasons we were faced with a deficit is that the
13 revenue projections in this state had fallen
14 because we had for various reasons industries
15 leaving this state, jobs leaving this state,
16 when we know that when the rest of the nation
17 went through a recession, was going through a
18 recovery, we had not gone through a recovery.
19 So before we could start looking
20 at everything in terms of our effect, we had to
21 look at what we had to cure, and part of the
22 cure that we had to do was to put our fiscal
23 house in balance, put our fiscal house in order,
7934
1 make sure that we could pay our bills, make sure
2 that people who were the neediest were taken
3 care of instead of doing everything that was,
4 want-to-be, and desirable.
5 So in terms of remiss, no. I
6 think you are absolutely wrong. I think what we
7 have tried to do here is with the scarce
8 resources available take care of the people who
9 need it most.
10 SENATOR ESPADA: Through you, Mr.
11 President.
12 Maybe remiss was an unfortunate
13 and premature conclusion, but, certainly,
14 incomplete maybe more appropriate because the
15 question still stands. How many jobs will be
16 lost to the health care sector and to New York
17 State residents as a result of these cost
18 containment measures? If the answer is that you
19 don't have an answer, then -
20 SENATOR HANNON: Are you
21 suggesting, Senator, that the purpose of the
22 health care system is not to take care of people
23 who are sick, who are needy, who are infirm, but
7935
1 rather to provide jobs for people who don't have
2 them?
3 SENATOR ESPADA: The answer to
4 your question is it is A and B and C and it's a
5 lot of things. It isn't just simple slogans,
6 "health care," "Workfare". What we have here
7 is a complicated world. What we have here is
8 that health care industry in New York State is
9 like the oil industry in Texas and Silicon
10 Valley in California. You don't go -
11 SENATOR HANNON: Are you
12 suggesting that we should not be taking -
13 SENATOR ESPADA: I don't -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
15 Gentlemen. Gentlemen. Gentlemen. This is this
16 is not a shouting match. We have a procedure.
17 We go through the Chair. One Senator will ask a
18 question. The other one will be given a chance
19 to respond to it. We don't interrupt people in
20 the middle of discussions. It's going to be a
21 long day today, so let's please show a little
22 respect to our comrades here, our colleagues
23 here in the Senate.
7936
1 Senator Espada, did you finish
2 your question?
3 SENATOR ESPADA: I was actually
4 responding to the question when I was
5 interrupted.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have
7 the floor, so it's your floor.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you so
9 much.
10 The question of the impact on the
11 health care industry isn't to negate the fact -
12 and believe you me, I spent a lifetime on the
13 provider side of health care, so I understand
14 health provisions very well.
15 I also understand that in my
16 county 45 percent of the jobs that have been
17 created in that needed sector have been in the
18 health care industry, so it's worked both
19 wonders. It's improved the quality of health
20 care in my district and also has provided for
21 families and stability and job careers.
22 And so it is to the latter impact
23 that I ask you again about job losses, is all.
7937
1 SENATOR HANNON: When we went
2 through the Medicaid system, we looked at what
3 efficiencies, what savings could be made in the
4 hospitals, nursing homes, home care, personal
5 care. We took a budget that had been crafted as
6 so many others have been crafted in the past
7 with more of an eye toward savings and tried to
8 look at it in terms of caring for people.
9 When we restored the long-term
10 home health care, we looked not just at that one
11 program, but we looked at related programs and
12 saw what had to be done so conceptually we would
13 be taking care of people.
14 Well, we did the same thing in
15 analogous ways, personal care nursing homes,
16 hospitals.
17 I submit to you, Senator, that
18 what we had to do was to look at what was of the
19 utmost concern for individuals at a time when
20 they needed the help the most. In fact, one of
21 the greatest tragedies is the demise of the
22 mandated managed care for those people in the
23 Medicaid system. In that way, if we had had
7938
1 this managed care, we could have insured that
2 people would have a regular system of health
3 care, would have a regular care giver, not use
4 the emergency rooms, not be treated in the most
5 costly, inefficient and illogical way.
6 What has happened with the demise
7 of that mandate, in the budget at least, is, I
8 think, the loss of quality care to the
9 individuals who need it most; and as an
10 ancillary thing, it would have saved money; and
11 that money could have been put into things we
12 might want to see but are not absolutely
13 necessary in the health care system; and those
14 things we might want to see might have responded
15 to your question.
16 But what we have tried to do is
17 always look at what is the purpose of this
18 program, what is the goal that we are seeking,
19 because, frankly, that is our obligation.
20 SENATOR ESPADA: If I may, Mr.
21 President, just as a follow-up?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Hannon, do you continue to yield to Senator
7939
1 Espada?
2 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 yields.
5 SENATOR ESPADA: I didn't have it
6 in mind, Senator Hannon, to discuss managed care
7 but since you brought it up, maybe you could
8 explain how, in fact, we could have implemented
9 the Governor's proposals for mandatory managed
10 care when, in fact, it seems at a quick cursory
11 glance of the memo that we received in
12 conference just now that we've essentially
13 gutted out all the primary care capacity
14 building strength that was in the budget two
15 years ago through the NYPHRM that we passed.
16 I don't understand how we can
17 have mandatory managed care, which essentially
18 would require that people be absolutely involved
19 in an HMO setting, without having family doctors
20 in those family clinics for them to go to.
21 So since you brought it up, the
22 question is, really, were we ready for this
23 thing that you said is subject to demise?
7940
1 SENATOR HANNON: Not only do we
2 believe that over a three-year period we could
3 have achieved the goals that would have been set
4 and we could have done it in a very orderly way,
5 I believe that through the 1991 statute that
6 allowed for voluntary enrollment, that we will
7 see by the end of this year or shortly into next
8 year, calendar year, over a million people on
9 Medicaid, a good proof of -- and very close to
10 the goals that are contained in the
11 Administration's plan that's been submitted to
12 Washington for a waiver.
13 So I believe the answer is
14 question is yes, and the questions in regard to
15 the changes in the NYPHRM system have nothing to
16 do with the capacity that would have been needed
17 and will be needed for managed care.
18 SENATOR ESPADA: We have a loss,
19 Mr. President -- one last question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Hannon, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
7941
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator continues to yield.
3 SENATOR ESPADA: Do we have a
4 loss of primary care development funding
5 capacity in this budget? Do we have a loss?
6 SENATOR HANNON: I don't believe
7 so.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: We have not
9 reduced the primary care enhancement
10 capabilities under this budget?
11 SENATOR HANNON: There are many
12 sources of money that can be used for the
13 evolving medical needs of this state. Just
14 because something happened to be reduced that
15 had that title doesn't mean there aren't many
16 other streams of that money. There are five
17 incarnations of NYPHRM, which is the payment
18 system that fixes the rates for hospitals and
19 then provides ancillary social goals through the
20 bad debt and charity pool and a number of other
21 add-ons; and there are many of those other
22 streams of revenue to the hospital that can be
23 used for this purpose.
7942
1 SENATOR ESPADA: I look forward
2 to debate on NYPHRM when it comes up, but
3 suffice it to say that it's clear to me that we
4 have eliminated primary care enhancement and
5 capacity development in this budget; and if you
6 won't say it, I will. We have.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
9 recognizes Senator Waldon.
10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
11 much, Mr. President.
12 Would the distinguished chairman
13 of Social Services from Orange and Rockland
14 Counties permit me to ask him a question or
15 two?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Holland, do you yield to Senator Waldon?
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
22 much, Mr. President.
23 Senator Holland, I'm going to
7943
1 surprise you today. I'm going to support this
2 bill. But I have a couple of concerns, and I
3 need you to iron them out for me.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: You say you are
5 going to support the bill, Senator?
6 SENATOR WALDON: I think I am
7 going to support the bill.
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Good man.
9 SENATOR WALDON: Isn't that a
10 revelation? At last, distant polarized
11 philosophies will somehow come together, but
12 there is a bridge I have to cross. I want you
13 to help me cross that bridge.
14 This is in regard to the
15 Learnfare component. I'm concerned that a child
16 through whatever reason is absent from school
17 and the family will be penalized; and my
18 understanding is that those children who are
19 receiving aid from the state over the period of
20 a year -- we're talking about a collective now
21 -- are absent only two days more than all other
22 children; that that is what the data shows; and
23 yet what you are proposing is that if a child is
7944
1 absent from school, unexcused, as characterized
2 by the legislation, that the family will suffer
3 in terms of the monetary benefit.
4 Can you tell me when the
5 mechanism triggers to end the benefits for the
6 family; and can you tell me what the
7 conferences -- the warning conferences, what it
8 really entails?
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: When it
10 triggers is five days of unexcused absences in a
11 quarter.
12 SENATOR WALDON: It's not quite
13 accurate from what I read.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: The conference
15 is with the family and the school district, and
16 would be held after three unexcused absences,
17 before the five are completed.
18 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue,
19 Mr. President?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Holland, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7945
1 continues to yield.
2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
3 President. Who will attend that conference?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't believe
5 it specifically says that. It lays out the
6 number of people or who should attend, but it
7 would be the family and representatives of the
8 school, anybody who can help solve the problem.
9 SENATOR WALDON: If I may
10 continue, Mr. President?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Holland, do you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 continues to yield.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 What I really want to know is who
19 will pull the trigger? Who will say, "Your
20 child in this quarter has been absent too many
21 times. We are now going to cut off the
22 benefits"? Who has that responsibility?
23 SENATOR HOLLAND: It will either
7946
1 be the school or the social services district.
2 I assume it will be the school district and,
3 hopefully, it will be done at the local level
4 with the parents themselves.
5 I think every effort is going to
6 be made, Senator, and I hope you are correct,
7 that your study says that they only miss two
8 additional days, and maybe that's true until the
9 sixth grade. That's when, as Senator Espada
10 said, I think, the younger people start leaving
11 school. We're trying to get them in to -- and
12 we don't want to take the money away from them
13 if they really need money.
14 We're trying to get them used to
15 going to school. We're trying to get the parent
16 to continue to encourage the young people to go
17 to school. That doesn't only happen in the
18 Bronx or Brooklyn. It also happens in New City,
19 in particularly junior high school, when kids
20 don't want to go to school. We need the
21 assistance of the parents and the assistance of
22 the school and everybody else to get them over
23 that hump and they get a little bit better in
7947
1 high school.
2 SENATOR WALDON: One last
3 question, if I may, Mr. President?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Holland, do you continue to yield?
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR WALDON: I am unclear
8 because in your response you were unclear about
9 who will make the final decision; and so my
10 question to you is, will you put pressure on the
11 system to make sure that the decision is not
12 made by the school in terms of cutting off the
13 money, but by the representative of the state
14 which is better equipped, in my opinion, to do
15 that with recommendations from the school?
16 And if you can assure me that you
17 will do this -- and I trust your response -
18 then I may be able to support you regarding this
19 legislation.
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Right off the
21 top of my head, Senator, you know, I have a
22 little problem with that. I think the people in
23 the school themselves who work with the young
7948
1 person daily and know the young person would
2 probably have a better judgment of whether this
3 young boy or young girl is trying to cut school
4 or not trying to cut school rather than somebody
5 from social services.
6 So I would like to see it done at
7 the local school because I think the teachers
8 and the principals there know the young people
9 that come to their school.
10 Let me just say one more thing.
11 It's not set yet, Senator. You know that. It's
12 got to be worked out in the plan, and the plan
13 has not been specified.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
15 apologize. Because of the response of our
16 chairman, I need to just say one more thing to
17 him, and then I will be seated.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Holland yields.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Perhaps I didn't
21 explain myself clearly enough, Senator, and that
22 happens often times. I'm 58-1/2 now. A lot of
23 things don't work the way they used to. We've
7949
1 gone down this road before.
2 The point I was trying to make is
3 that the decision to cut off the money should
4 not be with the school personnel. The
5 determination as to whether or not the student
6 is performing up to speed should be the
7 responsibility of the school, and that
8 recommendation would then go to the social
9 services agency representative and that
10 representative would make the decision.
11 If I did not explain that clearly
12 enough before, I do it now. That was the thrust
13 of my concern. If you can assure me now -- to
14 complete, if you can assure that that will be
15 the process, which I think you did just a moment
16 ago, if you can repeat it for us, then I can
17 support you on this measure.
18 Thank you, Mr. President. Thank
19 you, Senator Holland.
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: I will do the
21 best I can.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Stavisky.
7950
1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator
2 Holland, would you yield?
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator
5 Holland, we have not yet seen a local assistance
6 budget, but from the preliminary indications, it
7 does not appear that school districts will be
8 satisfied or able to perform all the functions
9 required of them.
10 When I last undertook examination
11 of this thorny problem, I found that one of the
12 difficulties is that bureaus of attendance have
13 been decimated because school administrators
14 have had to decide whether to keep teachers in
15 the classroom or attendance officers available
16 to deal with absenteeism.
17 Can you assure us, as you ask us
18 to vote on this bill, that there will be
19 adequate funding for bureaus of attendance in
20 all of the schools that will be subject to this
21 procedure?
22 It's not that I'm quarreling with
23 you on the desirability of having an improvement
7951
1 in classroom attendance, or performance,
2 obviously, but I think that we may be imposing
3 upon the schools a mandate without money. We
4 may be imposing upon the schools a
5 responsibility without adequate staffing for
6 bureaus of attendance; and have you consulted
7 with your colleagues who have responsibility for
8 educational funding in the school districts, the
9 700 school districts of the state which will
10 ultimately be covered by your bill or even the
11 sample school districts that are involved in the
12 preliminary survey and the preliminary
13 procedure? Can you assure the members of this
14 Senate that bureaus of attendance, properly
15 staffed, are in place in all of these school
16 districts, or are you imposing upon the schools
17 a responsibility for which they have no
18 resources and limited personnel?
19 SENATOR HOLLAND: One of the
20 reasons that we're phasing it in is just to
21 improve the system as we go along. You
22 understand it's six districts the first year,
23 fifteen districts the second year, and statewide
7952
1 the third year?
2 There will be money going to the
3 districts. I can not guarantee how that goes to
4 the schools. However, I have to go back to a
5 little story in visiting the City of New York,
6 again. Many of those schools, it was my
7 impression, don't keep attendance; and
8 attendance should be kept.
9 If we can encourage the schools
10 to keep attendance, whether it costs money or
11 not, I think that's one of basic things we
12 should do.
13 There is money in there,
14 $800,000, as I said, to implement the program
15 for six districts the first year. It should be
16 enough money, Senator, but I really think the
17 school districts should keep attendance anyway.
18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Did I hear you
19 correctly? Did you say that there was $100,000
20 provided to each of the school districts?
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: $800,000.
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: $800,000.
23 Did you consult with any
7953
1 educational officials that this would be
2 adequate to cover the non-attendance problem,
3 the absenteeism problem; that they would, in
4 fact, be able to make contact, especially where
5 there may be a dysfunctional family, where
6 there's only one parent or where there may be a
7 foster parent, and whether there is anyone to
8 receive the message that the child has not been
9 in attendance?
10 You know, it is one thing to have
11 even a bureau of attendance and if the contacts
12 are made between 9:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. and the
13 parent is not home, and if there is no
14 opportunity for discussion, we may be creating
15 an unfair and unfortunate breakdown in the
16 system by insisting on results when we are not
17 assuring that the requirements are in place.
18 I commend you for the objective.
19 I do not commend what I fear will be inadequate
20 local assistance funding for education, where
21 New York City will continue to receive
22 inadequate state aid to education, not even
23 based on the number of pupils, not based on the
7954
1 number of pupils who have special needs, but
2 based on a formula that absolutely discriminates
3 against certain large city school districts,
4 including the City of New York, and does not
5 necessarily guarantee that they will be held
6 accountable with sufficient resources and
7 revenue; and districts here are not like
8 districts in other parts of the state. $800,000
9 does not go very far when you have a million
10 pupils and when you have in some school
11 districts as many as 35,000 students.
12 Are you aware that some school
13 districts can have as many as 30,000 students?
14 This may be more than entire counties in upper
15 New York State have in terms of students, and
16 these may be the very kids who have special
17 problems, special needs and not, too often, the
18 resources in the school system to care for them.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson?
21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President,
22 would Senator Holland yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7955
1 Holland, do you yield to Senator Mendez? The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Holland,
4 in terms of the Workfare program, how will a
5 home reliefer who is HIV-positive or has
6 tuberculosis, one of the -- this new kinds of
7 that disease, how will they fare within the
8 Workfare program?
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: HIV individuals
10 can go into Workfare or are required to go into
11 Workfare but they cannot be sanctioned. They
12 cannot be put off the system for 90 days or 150
13 days or 180 days.
14 SENATOR MENDEZ: So, in other
15 words, in a sense they are exempted from the
16 Workfare provisions of the bill because of
17 illness.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yeah. Let me
19 read this to you, if I could. It's lines 16
20 through 20. Home relief applicants or
21 recipients affected with HIV or exposed to
22 tuberculosis and in need of treatment as defined
23 by the Commissioner of Health, assigned to
7956
1 participate pursuant to Section 164 of this
2 chapter shall not be subject to the provisions
3 of the first undesignated paragraph in the
4 subdivision and that is the sanctions, 90 days,
5 150 days, 180 days.
6 SENATOR MENDEZ: Will the Senator
7 yield for a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Holland, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR MENDEZ: In the case of
14 individuals who are drug addicts or alcoholics,
15 what are the provisions in the bill affecting
16 them in terms of Workfare?
17 SENATOR HOLLAND: They can be
18 excused -- if I can find the section here,
19 Senator -- with a note from a doctor, I believe,
20 if they have to go to treatment. They can be
21 excused. I have read it. They can be excused
22 with a note from the doctor if they have to go
23 to treatment.
7957
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
2 Will the -- will he still yield
3 for a question?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Holland, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Senator continues to yield, Senator Mendez.
9 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 Senator Holland, in terms of
12 residency requirements, I believe that this bill
13 states that people who -- let's say people who
14 move to the state from other states for six
15 months, they are limited to receive only the
16 kind of welfare amount of monies that they
17 receive either previous -- in the previous
18 states where they had residency.
19 My question is I understand that
20 there was a -- a -- a Supreme Court decision in
21 reference to the right to travel of American
22 citizens. Would there be a possibility that
23 this specific aspect of this bill could be found
7958
1 unconstitutional?
2 SENATOR HOLLAND: There have been
3 cases, Senator, yes, that's true. We feel it
4 should be looked at again. We feel that it
5 should be challenged and that people who come in
6 should receive the same benefits they received
7 in their previous state or country.
8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Now -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Holland, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Senator continues to yield.
14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
15 Senator Holland, I understand -
16 to what extent have individuals, let's say women
17 with children who are on public assistance, have
18 their allotments been cut in this bill?
19 SENATOR HOLLAND: No.
20 SENATOR MENDEZ: M-m h-m-m.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: No grant cuts
22 for them.
23 SENATOR MENDEZ: What about -
7959
1 what about the personal health care -- I suppose
2 that I have to ask those questions to the
3 chairman of the Health Committee, but at least
4 on the aspect of -- thank you, Senator Holland.
5 At least on the aspect of welfare
6 reform, which we know our own president four
7 years ago in his campaign, he said that he
8 wanted to reform welfare as we know it. In the
9 -- in the aspect of welfare reform, we don't
10 know what will be coming down at present from
11 Washington. It's not been finalized there yet.
12 At least with respect to the
13 people who receive home relief, at least
14 individuals who are very sick are not being
15 forced into Workfare.
16 It is very interesting to know,
17 Mr. President, that years back in the '70s, the
18 city of New York started a program on Workfare
19 for men and women, and the objective of that
20 program was to have women and men work for their
21 welfare check in city offices, and I remember
22 that at the time I was very, very curious to see
23 how they felt about it, and I interviewed many
7960
1 of them, and they told me that they were very
2 happy that at least, although they were
3 receiving a check from the government, at least
4 they were working for it and at least every
5 morning that they would wake up, they would have
6 a place to go.
7 I am saying that, of course, what
8 happened to that program was they were looking
9 -- all these people were looking forward to
10 having a job with the City, but at the time the
11 unions opposed it and then the problem no longer
12 existed; and I'm saying this, Mr. President,
13 because there is a horrendously negative stereo
14 type concerning the -- who are the individuals
15 who, in fact, receive either home relief or
16 public assistance, and knowing the economic
17 realities of the state of New York during the
18 past years and that we have not been able to
19 join other neighboring states in gaining jobs
20 and in recuperating from our economic mess, so
21 that the scarcity of jobs make it even more
22 difficult for many welfare recipients to, in
23 fact, get jobs. I think I understand that, in
7961
1 this bill today, there -- more monies would be
2 provided for day care services for women who
3 have young children and will be -- will be
4 joining the Workfare.
5 Again, just on the area of
6 welfare, our society really makes a strong case
7 for developing marketable skills among the
8 poor. We shall always then have, unfortunately,
9 an economic under class and, in fact, our
10 studies recently do show that the gap between
11 the haves and the have nots in our country has
12 increased enormously through the years.
13 We hope that once our state puts
14 in order its economic situation -- and let us
15 hope that the philosophy of the Governor, in
16 fact, does work so that we could see an economic
17 revival in the state of New York that will
18 provide jobs for people who want to work but are
19 unable to do so because there are no jobs in the
20 market.
21 I have one other concern with
22 respect to health -- and let me see which one it
23 was. Will Senator Hannon yield for a question?
7962
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Hannon, do you yield to Senator Mendez for a
3 question relative to a health provision in this
4 bill?
5 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. I was just
6 consulting Senator Tully -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR HANNON: -- about some
10 information.
11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Hannon,
12 my community, my district will be tremendously
13 impacted with the cuts in home health care and
14 -- according to the first budget submitted by
15 the Governor.
16 In this budget, Senator, how have
17 we fared in terms of the restitutions? Will 24
18 hour care still be in place so that senior
19 citizens that are very frail and that rather
20 stay at home rather than go into the nursing
21 home will be able to do so?
22 SENATOR HANNON: Under the -
23 even the first version of this bill that we
7963
1 passed in this house which we had negotiated
2 with the Governor, Senate 4000, we would have
3 dealt with personal care on an average basis so
4 that we still would have left for an individual,
5 if the determination -- determination was made
6 that 24 hours was the most appropriate number of
7 hours for that individual, they could have done
8 that.
9 There are most indications,
10 however, that having home care on a 24-basis is
11 not an appropriate setting, and so there needs
12 to be a very good review by the counties and the
13 city as to what's most appropriate to bring down
14 these average number of hours, but we have been
15 talking about averages and we still do so that
16 if there is something that is called for, a
17 short-term, acute need, that could be done.
18 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
19 Mr. President, will he yield for
20 a question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Hannon, do you continue to yield? The Senator
23 continues to yield.
7964
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
2 Senator Hannon, in my district, I
3 have homes -- greater homes, I have individuals
4 who are tremendously physically handicapped, and
5 they have been successful at living independent
6 ly with the aid of the -- of the home health
7 care services. How will these individuals be
8 specifically impacted upon with this bill?
9 SENATOR HANNON: We have enacted
10 -- I believe you're referring to what's called
11 patient self-directed management care, consumer
12 directed personal assistance program, so that
13 people who are disabled but are fully functional
14 and know whatever the medical needs, that's a
15 limited number of individuals, but obviously
16 it's a group that we should be as supportive to
17 as possible. I think we have by establishing a
18 separate stream for them.
19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Finally, will
20 the Senator yield for another question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Hannon, do you continue to yield? The Senator
23 continues to yield.
7965
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: With the kinds
2 of cuts that hospitals will be receiving -- and
3 I understand that the negotiating process
4 between the Assembly, the Senate and the
5 Governor has been very successful in terms of
6 bringing it -- in more monies to avoid a
7 tremendous amount of loss enforcing, in a sense,
8 closing of hospitals. How will hospitals that
9 are servicing poorer neighborhoods will -- will
10 fare under this bill?
11 SENATOR HANNON: They will fare
12 well, as well as one could expect. We spent a
13 great deal of time discussing the nature of the
14 hospitals, the ones that we called distressed
15 hospitals. There's another group of hospitals
16 that are called SLIPA which are really marked by
17 the large number of Medicaid patients they
18 treat. We're also aware of the municipal
19 hospitals, and that goes for not just the city
20 of New York, but there are municipal hospitals
21 outside, and we've tried to be as cognizant as
22 possible in regard to the population they serve
23 and the services that they render.
7966
1 It would, however, be wrong just
2 to look at what is happening in the hospital
3 field in terms of what we are doing in state
4 government. There are two other major outside
5 factors and forces that are working and will
6 work and will create changes, no matter what we
7 do.
8 The first is the continued
9 movement from insurance coverage under the fee
10 for service into managed care and, as that
11 happens, we find that there becomes more
12 efficient utilization of hospitals. We find
13 there becomes negotiated rates with hospitals,
14 and so those changes in the delivery of health
15 services are forcing the hospitals to change.
16 We know currently that our
17 hospitals have some of the longest rates of stay
18 for individuals who enter into those hospitals.
19 Longest rates of stay -- not the longest, but
20 among the longest rates of stay in the nation.
21 We have the highest among -- the highest
22 hospital costs among those in the nation. So
23 that's a force that's continuing to move, and we
7967
1 are going along with those changes; and I must
2 add the projected changes from Washington make
3 whatever we do today pale in comparison. 14, 15
4 times as great the cuts are being projected and
5 proposed for adoption this year when the federal
6 budget begins, the federal fiscal year begins
7 October 1.
8 So those changes are going to
9 cause us to take a long, hard look at what we're
10 doing, how we can do it and how we keep these
11 essential services flowing to people in your
12 community, people throughout the state because,
13 frankly, there's no corner of this state that
14 will be left untouched by both of those forces.
15 SENATOR MENDEZ: My final
16 question, Mr. President -
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Hannon, do you continue to yield? The Senator
19 yields.
20 SENATOR MENDEZ: I was concerned
21 that $10 a month is nothing for you and I, but
22 $13 a month is a lot of money for senior
23 citizens who live on SSI. Has that problem been
7968
1 resolved in this budget bill?
2 SENATOR HANNON: That has not
3 been taken up at our table. That has not been
4 something that's been discussed in regard to the
5 Medicaid budget.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Holland, do you yield to a question? It seems
8 to be deferred to you from Senator Hannon -
9 Senator Mendez.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: It's going to
11 be a separate bill, Senator.
12 SENATOR MENDEZ: $13 a month that
13 we're going to be -- some senior citizens -
14 poor senior citizens are going to lose. How are
15 we addressing that proposal?
16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Start the
17 question over again. Let me -
18 SENATOR MENDEZ: There was an
19 original proposal whereby senior citizens who
20 are poor would be losing $13 a month, I believe,
21 of their SSI or -- what's happening with that
22 proposal that we -
23 SENATOR HOLLAND: My
7969
1 understanding, Senator, is that original
2 proposal that we all heard back in the beginning
3 where the federal money would not be passed
4 through has been forgotten and it will not
5 happen and it won't happen in this bill. It's
6 not going to happen in the -
7 SENATOR MENDEZ: So the senior
8 citizens will be receiving the -
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: That's correct.
10 SENATOR MENDEZ: -- the $13
11 that's supposed to -
12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, but we
13 have to pass another bill as we do every year to
14 pass that money through.
15 SENATOR MENDEZ: I know. I
16 know. But that will be okay?
17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
18 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you,
19 Senator Holland. Thank you, Senator Hannon.
20 Mr. President, I know that all
21 these budget bills that we are voting on this
22 year, that it has been a very lengthy, hard
23 process, painful for everybody.
7970
1 I am proud that the Democratic
2 Party has been pushing and pushing to make
3 certain that some of the most vulnerable
4 population of the state of New York are thought
5 of and not -- and not penalized as much.
6 I must also say that the members
7 of these houses as well as the Governor took to
8 heart those recommendations and came through
9 with the kind of budget that, yes, is not -- is
10 not the best in the whole world, because we all
11 would like to have lots of monies to fund the
12 best of programs that will help all the
13 residents of the state of New York to do better
14 in their lives, but within the economic reality
15 that this is a state that has a $5 billion
16 deficit within the economic reality, that
17 because of what we in prior years did with the
18 pension funds, we have a deficit there of $4
19 billion that the courts are asking to us to pay
20 back. Within all those realities of -- the
21 realities of the economic situation in the state
22 of New York, this is within that negative
23 economic reality.
7971
1 This is the best budget that we
2 can compromise. I feel satisfied and that is
3 why I'm going to support this bill. I feel
4 satisfied that senior citizens in my district
5 who are poor will not be penalized. I feel
6 satisfied that people in home relief within my
7 district who suffer from HIV-positive or have
8 tuberculosis will not be forced into Workfare
9 because of their health situation.
10 I'll be satisfied -- I'm
11 satisfied also that the home health care
12 programs as well as personal services, all those
13 services there, that new industry that provides
14 jobs for -- for poor, unskilled women and
15 provides a work of love to be taking care of
16 seniors day in and day that, that that industry
17 has been saved and that those women will be
18 working, and in doing so, providing those
19 services, they will be, in fact, saving monies
20 for the state of New York because, otherwise,
21 these older people would have to go into nursing
22 homes where I'm told, would have to pay anywhere
23 from 45,000 to 60- -- $60,000 a year. So that
7972
1 the hospitals will not be suffering
2 horrendously, the nursing homes either.
3 So within all that negative
4 economic reality, I think I must congratulate
5 the Speaker. I must congratulate the Majority
6 Leader here and the Governor, because within all
7 this negative situation, they have come up with
8 a budget that reflects the best that everybody
9 could do, and that's good enough for me.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
12 recognizes Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
14 if Senator Hannon might yield for a question
15 just briefly.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hannon, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
18 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, in
22 the negotiation, passage and adoption of this
23 budget in the area of personal care, we project
7973
1 a $63 million savings to the state arising from
2 the sanctions that we will impose if local
3 governments do not meet the threshold of
4 savings.
5 My question to you is what is the
6 standard which we are imposing on those local
7 governments because, as I see it, New York City
8 will bear the brunt of it, and in a way, if it
9 isn't organized properly, it would really be in
10 a sense a fiscal hit on New York City.
11 SENATOR HANNON: Two or three
12 things, Senator. That's a good question.
13 First of all, the brunt is much
14 less than the bill that passed this house or was
15 proposed by the Governor, by the mechanisms that
16 are available which are mechanisms in regard to
17 the management of the level of care, the
18 organization of care, the delivery of care, this
19 personal care that's delivered at the home,
20 that, I think, are available and are achievable
21 without at all harming the individuals receiving
22 the care.
23 We've taken looks -- I have, at
7974
1 programs throughout the state. We've seen
2 counties that have worked at sharply defining
3 the needs of the individuals, making sure that
4 extra hours are not allocated where they are not
5 absolutely needed, and we feel that they can be
6 done -- this can be done.
7 I've seen people go through two
8 different methods, the method that has arisen
9 without a lot of thought as people had to invent
10 this system and which over-allocates the hours
11 and other methods which are really people
12 management methods of saying you don't have to
13 be eight hours at an individual's home, and if
14 you can look and see if there's three or four,
15 ten individuals in a building or in a
16 neighborhood and share the services for those
17 individuals, and so that those savings, I think,
18 are achievable. I think there needs to be a
19 defined will to make them come about. I think
20 this is nothing new. This body passed a
21 limitation on -- in 1991 of 100 hours flat cut
22 off. I mean -- so things have been on the
23 horizon to the local social service districts
7975
1 that they had to get on the ball and do this.
2 In the county of Suffolk, a
3 countywide program, they took the average hours
4 from over, oh, 160 hours per month and brought
5 it down in the range of 80 hours per month as an
6 average delivery to people who need it, and
7 they're doing well with that. It's just a
8 question of how much application and focus they
9 can have.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 I think that's a sufficient answer and the only
14 question I would add is -- if Senator Hannon
15 would yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hannon, do you yield? The Senator yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
19 Hannon, I guess I'm just a little more
20 interested in how we set the targets for the
21 amount of money we want to save in those
22 particular areas. Where do we -- I guess it's
23 something that is a little nebulous in concept
7976
1 and that's what I'm trying to -
2 SENATOR HANNON: This is going to
3 have to be something that will be set by the
4 Department of Social Services, communicated to
5 each of the districts. Very shortly, within a
6 couple of months -- I believe the date deadline
7 would be August 1st -- there will be quarterly
8 monitoring of all of this. There'll be reports
9 whether or not the targets are being met, and
10 there's even a provision for incentives to be
11 built in so that if the targets are met and
12 better achieved that some incentives can be
13 provided to local social service districts.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, the
15 quarterly monitoring, which I wasn't aware of
16 until you just mentioned it, Senator, is
17 certainly going to be helpful, because I would
18 imagine, if there's any problems, some
19 adjustments can be made. I guess I'm just a
20 little more interested in what the criteria
21 would actually be for setting up this kind of
22 standard, because I'm not altogether sure that
23 we can meet our -- our objective of saving 63
7977
1 million.
2 SENATOR HANNON: There are some
3 of the criteria contained in the provisions of
4 the bill, Section 92. I don't have the page
5 number for you. I have the bill drafting copy,
6 and it says, first of all, through appropriate
7 and efficient use of personal emergency response
8 system, the type of system that people may be
9 familiar with through television advertisment,
10 health by phone, but that in and of itself
11 intelligently used can derive a great deal of
12 comfort to people who are the care givers to
13 make sure people do not have -- are put at risk,
14 shared aides also; another criteria is the total
15 size of the district, along with the density of
16 the number of recipients in that district.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
20 Senator.
21 That certainly alludes as to how
22 to achieve of the savings, which is what we are
23 -- are trying to do.
7978
1 My last question -- and I promise
2 you -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Hannon, do you yield to another question from
5 Senator Paterson? The Senator yields.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Is -- the
7 actual target, who's going to set that up?
8 SENATOR HANNON: The Department
9 of Social Services.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. Thank
11 you very much, Senator.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson.
14 SENATOR HANNON: And there is, by
15 the way, in the bill a requirement that the
16 total targets be in the order of 53.1 million.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Very good.
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
22 Holland would yield to one last question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Does the
7979
1 Senator yield for one last question from Senator
2 Paterson?
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the
7 finger imaging that I -- I imagine it's not
8 here, that will be forthcoming in another piece
9 of legislation?
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. I'm
11 told it will be in S.1840.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay.
13 Thank you very much and thank
14 you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read -- Senator Montgomery.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank
18 you, Mr. President.
19 I would just like to ask the -
20 Senator Holland, I think, a couple of questions
21 on the welfare reform.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Holland, do you yield to Senator Montgomery?
7980
1 The Senator yields.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
3 Holland, I didn't see in the bill and maybe I
4 just can't find it, the -- a section that -
5 where day care is necessary in order before a
6 locality is allowed to force a parent in the
7 AFDC program off of benefits. What provisions
8 did we make for ensuring that there is
9 appropriate day care services in order to -
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: No changes.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No changes
12 in the current law, so we're still under the
13 federal guidelines?
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And in
16 anticipation of any changes, for instance, block
17 granting, what does that mean for the state in
18 that -
19 SENATOR HOLLAND: When the block
20 grant comes down, it's my understanding that we
21 will have to refigure the entire thing. It will
22 be on the state's shoulders at that point, but
23 we don't know what that's going to be at this
7981
1 point, Senator.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. Thank
3 you.
4 The other issue is transitioning,
5 and I guess you partially answered that
6 question, that that's the same question -- Mr.
7 President, if Senator Holland would continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Holland, do you continue to yield? The Senator
11 continues to yield.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The medical
13 benefits transitioning eligibility for Medicaid
14 benefits -
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: No changes.
16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No changes
17 vis-a-vis this legislation?
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: M-m h-m-m.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
20 Senator.
21 Mr. President, I just want to
22 speak briefly on the bill. I think -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7982
1 Montgomery on the bill.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I think that
3 this -- the legislation, particularly around the
4 welfare reform piece, certainly tries to deal
5 with fraud and I certainly agree with that, and
6 also tries to strengthen our loss as it relates
7 to child support payments, and I certainly think
8 that's one of the major issues for us, and one
9 of the small pieces that I find in the
10 legislation which I particularly am pleased
11 about is that you will be -- you're instructing
12 the agency to review the training programs in
13 our state that ostensibly train welfare
14 recipients and, Mr. President, one, we've held
15 hearings on this issue, in particular, and one
16 of the things that we find with training
17 programs is that many of them say that they're
18 training welfare recipients and, in fact,
19 they're training people for either dead end jobs
20 or they don't train them to prepare them in any
21 way for any job or they trained them for jobs
22 for which there is no need because there's a
23 saturation in the -- in the market, and one of
7983
1 those areas, in particular, which is in the
2 legislation and I am -- it's very unfortunate
3 that we continue to maintain this -- in this
4 legislation is that we are still accepting
5 training by trade schools, registered business
6 schools, et cetera, and this body should know
7 that those are the areas where we have seen the
8 most fraudulent kind of activity vis-a-vis
9 training of welfare recipients in the state, and
10 I certainly hope that as the legislation directs
11 review of training, that this is looked at very,
12 very carefully.
13 We should not continue to fund
14 any program that does not, in fact -- cannot
15 prove that it trains people and that people can
16 go out and get jobs that are above minimum wage
17 and that they can stay on those jobs for any
18 length of time. Otherwise, we should not be
19 funding it and it should not be part of what we
20 consider to be welfare reform.
21 Mr. President, this is, I think,
22 a moment for us to really think and be very
23 thoughtful about what we do because we're
7984
1 talking about changing the lives, hopefully, of
2 many thousands of people and changing the life
3 in a way that a person can go from dependence to
4 self-sufficiency, and I think it requires a lot
5 more thought and a lot longer deliberation.
6 I am very sorry that we have not
7 had that opportunity but, as Senator Holland has
8 indicated, there still will be another opportun
9 ity, and I certainly hope that we will continue
10 to move along the lines of strengthening what we
11 do to support people becoming independent
12 because we have not done that in the past and I
13 see this as sort of the first step.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Waldon.
17 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 Something Senator Montgomery said
20 triggered a thought and if Senator Holland, the
21 distinguished chairman, would allow me to ask
22 him a -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7985
1 Holland, do you yield to a question from Senator
2 Waldon?
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: From Orange
4 County.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator from Orange County yields.
7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator from
8 Orange and Rockland. I didn't mention your
9 counties, sir. I have them written right here
10 in front of me. Senator Joseph Holland,
11 distinguished Senator, Orange and Rockland
12 County.
13 Senator, in this bill, there's a
14 welfare fraud section and it has gradations of
15 penalties. Would you please tell us from top to
16 bottom what each penalty is and on it -- and
17 including your explanation, please, the minimum
18 and maximum at each level and that's my
19 question, Mr. President.
20 I thank you.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: In the home
22 relief area, first time you break the law, it's
23 six months and $1,000; second time is 12 months
7986
1 and the monetary values are $1,000 to 3900. In
2 other words, if you broke the law the first time
3 but you had stolen 1,000 to $3900, you would go
4 to the second sanction. Third sanction, 18
5 months, over $3900. So, in other words, if you
6 did the first time but you took over 3900, you
7 would go to the third sanction. Fourth sanction
8 is five years.
9 In food stamps, zero to $1,000, A
10 misdemeanor. 1,000 to $3,000 is an E felony.
11 3,000 to 50,000 is a D felony. Over 50,000 is a
12 C felony; and the criminal and Penal Law for
13 welfare fraud, A misdemeanor, zero to $1,000,
14 $1,000 to $3,000, an E felony, a D felony, 3,000
15 to 50,000 and a C felony, 50,000 to one million
16 and a B felony, over a million. Okay?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
18 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
19 (There was no response.)
20 Hearing none, the Secretary will
21 read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 246.
23 This act shall take effect immediately.
7987
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Waldon to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
7 much, Mr. President.
8 I find some good things in this
9 proposed legislation, and I'm going to support
10 it because I believe it is headed in the right
11 direction. Didn't go far enough, but it's
12 headed in the right direction.
13 I agree with the learned Senator
14 from Kings County, Senator Montgomery, and her
15 request that we be about creating real jobs,
16 real training with the possibility of someone
17 having a direction after the training process
18 occurs, but I like the fact that people who
19 create problems at home by having children that
20 will now be sanctioned in terms of they'll have
21 to 'fess up and we can suspend their licenses
22 and other sanctions in that regard.
23 I'm not too happy about the
7988
1 Learnfare component. I think it's overly
2 punitive even regarding the fact that there has
3 to be a hearing and a conference and the school
4 is involved, and all of that, but I think it's
5 targeted towards the wrong population, our grade
6 school children, but overall there are some
7 concepts here which are revolutionary for me to
8 support, because I fought tooth and nail,
9 Workfare, Learnfare, because they had been
10 lacking in the past, but I believe that this
11 time there's a little light at the end of the
12 tunnel and we may be moving in the direction.
13 So I'm going to vote yes for this
14 this time because I believe there's some hope
15 that it's going in the right direction, but this
16 yes vote this time does not mean that I'm on
17 board forever and ever. It just means that I'm
18 hoping that Senator Holland in his wisdom next
19 year will come about with something that's even
20 better, that will allow people to have more
21 dignity, will ensure jobs, which will be less
22 punitive and less repressive.
23 And I thank you, Mr. President,
7989
1 for that time.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Waldon will be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Espada to explain his
5 vote.
6 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
7 President.
8 I think it is foolish and costly
9 to surrender the political terrain, Mr.
10 President, to artful demagoguery. Workfare,
11 Learnfare, things of that sort do not work, will
12 not work. Poor people in this society in this
13 state are not a protected class. You have to
14 look to the rich. You have to look to those
15 bankers that stole billions of dollars in the
16 '80s under Reaganomics, and the same kind of
17 economic policies that we're fostering and
18 implementing via legislation here today.
19 We would have to steal night and
20 day for the next century to match the kind of
21 thievery that took place then. No task forces,
22 no special press releases to cover that.
23 Instead, we get what we call this artful
7990
1 demagoguery of Workfare and Learnfare.
2 Learnfare will cost $800,000 this
3 year. I can think of 800 scholarships. I can
4 think of lots of kindergarten classes that could
5 be made habitable with that kind of money.
6 What it also encourages, Mr.
7 President, is it opens a window for the mayor of
8 city of New York to come up to Albany to ask for
9 the first time in God knows how many decades, to
10 ask for cuts in education. So we want them to
11 learn and we want Learnfare, but we ask for cuts
12 in New York City. We don't get 37 percent of
13 the money, we get 35 percent of the money. How
14 many more penalties can we exact from our poor
15 people and our poor children in our classrooms?
16 Is the fact that we restored lots
17 of the things, that the draconian cuts that were
18 contemplated when the Governor first released
19 his budget, excuse enough to support this -
20 this budget? I say no. Less pay, no gain
21 should not be rewarded.
22 I must go down in the negative on
23 this inasmuch as it doesn't achieve anything to
7991
1 put people back to work.
2 With respect, very quickly, to
3 health care, I have great respect for the effort
4 that the new chairman has put into this, but I
5 just want to remain sensitive to the economic
6 dislocation that is going to take place if we
7 move too quickly with the down-sizing of the
8 health care industry in this state.
9 Thank you so much.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Espada will be recorded in the negative.
12 Announce the results.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
14 President, to explain my vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
18 President, I guess I agree with Senator Waldon.
19 There are many things in this bill that are
20 moving in the right direction. In some ways
21 it's like getting on a train. You have a
22 charted path and a charted number of stops that
23 you're going to be on in the train. The problem
7992
1 I have is -- I'm prepared to vote in favor of
2 this bill, Mr. President, but I still have
3 concerns about where the train is going, where
4 it's going to stop and whether the train is
5 going to get off the track.
6 There are a whole bunch of good
7 things in the bill. It's got some changes in
8 the welfare system that I think drive us
9 hopefully toward more jobs. I agree with
10 Senator Montgomery, they should be more jobs and
11 I think that trend is probably a good trend and
12 we should be a part of it in New York State.
13 The child support enforcement
14 pieces are critical pieces as we look through
15 the problem of dead-beat dads, but there's some
16 other problems with this and one is in the
17 health care area, the retreat from primary
18 care. We're backing away from primary care.
19 Some of the commitments we made in NYPHRM last
20 time to primary care we're walking away from -
21 perhaps walking away is too hard. We're pulling
22 back to some extent.
23 On the Medicaid takeover,
7993
1 something that the county executives and the
2 local property taxpayers in this state have been
3 pushing for a decade, we're now saying we're
4 going to rescind the takeover and put $39
5 million back into the budget. I think we owe it
6 to the people of this state who pay property
7 taxes to look again at the issue of the take
8 over of the long-term care.
9 I'm concerned about the nursing
10 home assessment, the 2.5 percent that's going to
11 be placed on nursing homes. What do I think
12 that will do since it is not combined with an
13 increase in Medicaid reimbursement rates; what
14 that will do is be a big hit to private pay
15 patients in nursing homes and will drive them
16 faster into Medicaid because they're going to
17 have to pay more for private pay patients.
18 Despite those concerns, I think
19 we've got to keep our eye on the ball and
20 continue to monitor the problems that those
21 types of changes could accrue for this state.
22 I'm still going to vote in favor,
23 Mr. President. I think that this is a victory
7994
1 for our Assembly colleagues who went to bat to
2 get things like adult day care restored,
3 long-term home health care restored and from
4 that point of view, disaster from my perspective
5 has been averted, but I still think there may be
6 red lights on the little train track as we ride
7 down this road to welfare reform, and we in this
8 Legislature should be prepared to pay heed to
9 them.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Senator Oppenheimer to explain
13 her vote.
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I also am
15 going to be voting for this, and like everyone
16 else, I think we're moving in the right
17 direction. I just want to admonish one warning
18 that, if we do not vastly increase the quantity
19 of child care in this state, we will never be
20 able to really move ahead on the -- on the
21 reforms that we want in welfare, and we should
22 remind everyone that we're talking about
23 quality, affordable day care that's in easy
7995
1 distance of where the families are either living
2 or working.
3 The one thing that concerns me
4 the most in voting for this is the cutbacks in
5 the hospital funding which, though it is half of
6 what the Governor's budget originally had called
7 for in cutbacks, there's still a very hefty
8 amount of money, $143 million, and the cutbacks
9 -- that's in hospitals, and the cutbacks in
10 nursing homes is also halved from what the
11 Governor's budget originally had down.
12 It is very concerning to me,
13 coming from the Hudson Valley Region where we
14 have enormous problems. Many of our hospitals
15 are in the red, and this is a single bill and,
16 like all bills that are omnibus that have a lot
17 of pieces to them, you support some of the
18 pieces and some of the pieces you're very, very
19 leery of, but I will be supporting it and I hope
20 it will not prove to be too terribly damaging to
21 my Hudson Valley nursing homes and hospitals.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the affirmative.
7996
1 Senator DeFrancisco to explain
2 his vote.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm going
4 to vote yes, and the reasons why, I think, have
5 been said by a lot of people, but I just want to
6 look at it from a different perspective.
7 I think everyone in this chamber
8 wants to provide what government is supposed to
9 provide for people, and that is opportunity, and
10 the opportunity for those good jobs that Senator
11 Montgomery talked about occurs when you have a
12 system that promotes economic growth and vital
13 ity, a system that also provides for individuals
14 who have an opportunity to get off a system that
15 has a tendency to keep them on. At least that's
16 what's been shown over the past several years.
17 This particular budget provides
18 incentives for people to work and also to keep
19 more of any kind of public assistance that they
20 might have to wean off of the system, to provide
21 that opportunity and to provide that hope.
22 Of course, there's cuts in
23 hospitals; I have several in my district. Of
7997
1 course, there's cuts in various other areas of
2 Medicaid but, on the other hand, when the state
3 of New York spends more than the next two states
4 combined, California and Texas, something is
5 basically wrong with that system, and we have to
6 start getting that cost under control.
7 Of course, there's going to be
8 hurt in some areas, but the general goal, I
9 think, is shared by all of us, namely to make
10 sure there's a system that creates those good
11 jobs for people so that they have those
12 opportunities that all of us have had in the
13 past and hopefully our children will have in the
14 future.
15 I think this is a small start in
16 that direction. We've turned the corner and I
17 hope we start moving that train in that same
18 direction, and I think it's this house -- unlike
19 what Senator Dollinger mentioned, it's this
20 house that made that train turn around and go in
21 the direction that we want it to go to.
22 So I vote in the affirmative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7998
1 DeFrancisco in the affirmative.
2 Senator Hannon.
3 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 Responding to the point somebody
6 made, some opinions brought up, but one thing is
7 -- I just want to make clear that it was this
8 house with the Governor that restored the long
9 term home health care, adult day care. Not only
10 did we restore it, we did it in the bill that
11 passed months ago here in Senate 4000, because
12 we had -- when we had examined it, we found out
13 it made conceptual sense to do so.
14 I just wanted to straighten that
15 out in the record.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hannon in the affirmative. Announce the
18 results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
20 the negative on Calendar 1144 are Senators
21 Espada, Gonzalez, Leichter, Montgomery and
22 Smith. Ayes 53, nays 5.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7999
1 is passed.
2 The Chair recognizes Senator
3 Hannon.
4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
5 President. Could we go to Calendar Number 330?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That, we
7 can. There's a substitution at the desk,
8 Senator Hannon, if I might take that first for
9 that bill.
10 The Secretary will read the
11 substitution.
12 THE SECRETARY: On page 8,
13 Senator Stafford moves to discharge from the
14 Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill Number
15 3054-B and substitute it for the identical
16 Calendar Number 330.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, the substitution is ordered.
19 The Secretary will read the title
20 to Calendar Number 330.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 330, Budget Bill, Assembly Print 3054-C, an act
23 making appropriation for the support of
8000
1 government and to amend Chapter 52 of the Laws
2 of 1995, enacting the State Debt Service Budget
3 for the support of government.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An
7 explanation has been asked for.
8 Senator Hannon, who would you
9 like to have take that, Senator Stafford?
10 SENATOR HANNON: Senator
11 Stafford.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 330
14 has been asked for by the Acting Minority
15 Leader, Senator Paterson.
16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 As we move along here, we have
19 the -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
21 me, Senator Stafford. It's a little noisy in
22 here. Can we get the attention of the members,
23 please? Shut the doors. Sergeant-at-arms, shut
8001
1 the doors. Staff, please take their places. If
2 you have to have a conversation, take it out of
3 the chamber. I think we have their attention
4 now, Senator Stafford.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You can
7 continue.
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 Starting really in alphabetical
11 order, but if we're going to review what was
12 done with the Correctional Services, the state
13 is purchasing for $120 million, the facilities
14 at Riverview and Cape Vincent from the City, and
15 this will, of course, be of assistance to the
16 City. At the present time, the state is running
17 those facilities and there's state correctional
18 officials and correction officers and civilian
19 employees there, but they're all state employees
20 now, and there is authorization through some
21 bonding for future facilities that have been
22 suggested, but there are -- there's no
23 appropriation or authoriz... there is no bonds
8002
1 being proposed.
2 As far as CUNY goes, the City
3 University of New York, there is an appropri
4 ation for new facilities for LaGuardia Community
5 College, 14.4 million and 42.7 million for
6 health and safety infrastructure preservation
7 and A.D.A. compliance.
8 In the Education Department, we
9 have a new appropriation authority for a
10 cultural education center, improvements,
11 emergency lighting and repairs at the state
12 schools for the blind and the deaf, and we have
13 a reappropriation for 62 million for other
14 facilities in the Education Department.
15 Transportation -- I'm sure some
16 of you probably have reviewed the materials -
17 there are appropriations for some specific
18 facilities.
19 Then we move on. In the Capital
20 Projects, we provide 42.5 million for the
21 environmental protection fund which, I think, is
22 an increase of ten million from what the
23 Governor had proposed, and I think that is very
8003
1 good work.
2 I have always said -- and I can't
3 think how many years we did that. Was it four
4 years ago; four years ago when we passed that
5 fund. That was one time when we saw everybody
6 come together. We saw people on one side. We
7 saw people on the other side and everyone
8 agreed, and we saw people calling each other,
9 congratulating each other, and I hope we can see
10 some more of that, and we're providing funding
11 for that.
12 Now, you -- we could go down the
13 allocation for what the funding will be for, but
14 you all will see that, but I will be glad to
15 provide that list for anyone who would like it.
16 I don't want to -- we'll handle it. We'll do
17 it. We reappropriated -- right -- funding for
18 various facilities and various communities, and
19 this will provide a real boost in these
20 communities for spectator recreation, and a
21 great deal of work has gone into this and, of
22 course, I'm speaking about the stadia that have
23 been discussed a number of times.
8004
1 I could go through that list, but
2 I think those who are concerned with it know the
3 list better than I.
4 Again, there were -- there were
5 -- there were other proposals made, but we -
6 as in all parts of the budget, and I heard my
7 colleague speaking just before I came in the
8 room concerning the issue that he was going to
9 do, that we aren't able to do all we would like
10 to do, but I would point out there's a
11 restoration of $62 million for the maintenance
12 of facilities in primary and secondary
13 education, and that really results in a real -
14 well, it's just tremendous support for the New
15 York City schools.
16 We will be very pleased to answer
17 any questions or -- it doesn't appear that this
18 had too high a profile as I look around, but
19 we'll -- we'll sit down. Last section.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
8005
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
5 the results when tabulated.
6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr.
7 President, to explain my vote.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Markowitz to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you
11 very, very much.
12 Every so briefly, I would have a
13 great difficult time in supporting this, Senator
14 Hannon. There are several glaring reasons, but
15 one of them, under CUNY, I notice they have a
16 number of capital reappropriations, but what I
17 don't see is a master plan put forward by the
18 heart of the City University of New York,
19 Brooklyn College, that has visited many of the
20 legislators in this chamber, urging us to assist
21 them in the rehabilitation of a campus that is
22 aging, not so gracefully each and every year,
23 that is woefully in need of capital monies for
8006
1 some of the buildings at Brooklyn College, and
2 I'm sure that Senator LaValle knows that some of
3 the concerns and difficulties that Brooklyn
4 College has expressed and their desire to begin
5 the rehabilitation of the campus with the master
6 plan that they put forward. So that would be
7 one concern that I would have on this issue.
8 Another concern is that I noticed
9 that we're going to move ahead on stadiums in
10 this state and, you know, that's well and good
11 for the communities impacted, but the one that's
12 missing, the county that is the largest county
13 in state, 2.4 million people -- 2.4 million -
14 and I noticed that Brooklyn, New York, is not
15 listed among the proposed sites of stadiums in
16 this bill.
17 And so, how can I as a Brooklyn
18 representative in a community of 2.4 million
19 people -- the largest stadium indoors or
20 outdoors in Brooklyn is 2,400 seats. Could you
21 imagine? Albany, New York -- Albany, New York,
22 with their Knickerbocker hall -- Knickerbocker
23 Arena here for 7- -- 16,000 seats in Albany
8007
1 County, but Brooklyn, New York with 2.4 million
2 people, we have zip.
3 I wish I was around before they
4 ripped down Ebbets Field. We never would have
5 let them take that stadium out of Brooklyn, but
6 we can't bring back Ebbets Field, but we sure
7 can put into this bill and it should have been
8 between our new governor and legislative
9 leaders, we should have put in a stadium for
10 Brooklyn. It's high time and I can't possibly
11 allow or accept the fact that Brooklyn is
12 missing from this list in regards to a stadium
13 that we need.
14 I vote no on this bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Markowitz will be recorded in the negative.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar Number 330 are Senators
20 Abate, Espada, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz,
21 Montgomery, Smith and Waldon. Ayes -- also,
22 Senator Stavisky. Ayes 49, nays 9.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8008
1 is passed.
2 The Chair recognizes Senator
3 Hannon for an announcement.
4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. Mr.
5 President, there will be an immediate meeting of
6 the Finance Committee in Room 332 and that will
7 be followed immediately by a meeting of the
8 Rules Committee in the same room.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
10 will be an immediate meeting the Senate Finance
11 Committee in Room 332, the Majority Conference
12 Room. Immediate meeting of the Senate Finance
13 Committee, Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
14 That meeting will be followed by an immediate
15 meeting of the Rules Committee. Immediate
16 meeting of the Rules Committee to follow the
17 Senate Finance Committee, which is being held
18 right now.
19 Senator Hannon.
20 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President,
21 would it be possible to go to Supplemental
22 Calendar Number 1 and do the non-controversial
23 on that calendar?
8009
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Leichter, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
5 we've had this problem before where committee
6 meetings are called off the floor while bills
7 are being moved in the Senate. I think last
8 week we convinced Senator Skelos that we ought
9 to be at ease. There are many members who are
10 now leaving to go to the Finance Committee. I'm
11 going to leave to go to the Finance Committee.
12 I'd like to be on the floor while these bills
13 are being considered, so I would ask you that we
14 stand at ease until the Finance Committee
15 concludes its work.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Leichter, if you remember, the Acting Majority
18 -- I should say the Majority Leader last week
19 acknowledged the request to Senator Paterson.
20 You may remember -- we might have just a moment
21 of order. There seems to be a discussion here
22 about process.
23 You may remember that the
8010
1 Majority Leader consented to leave the roll
2 calls open so that you could cast a vote. The
3 Acting Majority Leader has simply asked for a
4 calling of the non-controversial calendar. If
5 you have some bill that you would like debated,
6 I suggest that you indicate that to the Acting
7 Minority Leader, Senator Paterson, and he will
8 lay the bill aside and we will wait for you to
9 debate the bill on your return from the Senate
10 Finance Committee.
11 That procedure was followed last
12 week. It seemed to work to the accommodation of
13 the members. It's my indication coming from the
14 Majority Leader that that's the procedure that
15 they would like to follow right now.
16 So if you have some bill that you
17 would like the Acting Minority Leader to lay
18 aside on the supplemental calendar, that's going
19 to be Supplemental Calendar Number 1, I suggest
20 that you relay that information to Senator
21 Paterson and I'm sure that he will represent
22 your objections wholeheartedly and with great
23 vigor.
8011
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I make an
2 added suggestion to make this more manageable,
3 and that is that all bills be retained at the
4 desk until the -- so that if members want an
5 opportunity to debate a bill, they may not have
6 had a chance to tell a champion, such as Senator
7 Paterson, to hold the bill. Would you hold the
8 bills at least at the desk, please?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I don't
10 have the authority to do that, Senator
11 Leichter. That would be up to the Majority
12 Leader.
13 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President,
14 let me point out that all we're trying to do
15 right now is non-controversial bills and, you
16 know, you already made the offer to hold the
17 bill aside, not take it up, not debate it until
18 you return, if you just simply indicate anything
19 you may have an interest in. Holding it at the
20 desk in terms of a day like this when we're
21 having a multitude of bills and trying to
22 coordinate with another house, just sometimes
23 becomes a very difficult thing to promise.
8012
1 There's no contemplation of anything otherwise,
2 but it's a very difficult thing to make a
3 commitment to -- as a day like this goes along.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
5 if I understand Senator Hannon, why is it
6 difficult to hold bills? You have a limited
7 number of bills. It isn't as if the Governor is
8 waiting to sign the bills or the Assembly to
9 pass them. It's a simple enough matter,
10 courtesy, and we've done that in the past. Are
11 you willing to do that, Senator Hannon?
12 SENATOR HANNON: We're willing to
13 hold any bill you like, Senator, for debate. We
14 won't take anything up. Just let us know.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will you hold
16 the bills at the desk?
17 SENATOR HANNON: I -- in this
18 calendar, there's nothing that's involved that
19 would be a problem.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Fine. Why
21 don't you just call the non-controversial.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will call the non-controversial
8013
1 calendar to Supplemental Number 1.
2 Senator Paterson, why do you
3 rise?
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Why do I rise,
5 Mr. President?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon
7 me, Senator Paterson? I didn't hear you.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: We understand
9 the -- we understand the predicament that we're
10 all in trying to pass the budget and having a
11 number of bills before us. I would just like to
12 point out in support of Senator Leichter that
13 when the regular non-controversial calendar is
14 on the floor, it's a lot easier because we've
15 seen an active list prior to that.
16 However, the problem that Senator
17 Leichter and many of us are encountering right
18 now is that we've only seen the supplemental
19 calendar for a brief period of time, so it's
20 very difficult for us to determine which of the
21 non-controversial bills we would like to take up
22 or perhaps vote against, and I think that's the
23 reason that Senator Leichter has raised this
8014
1 quite good point, I think.
2 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President -
3 Mr. President, we'll hold those bills at the
4 desk until the conclusion of the committee
5 meeting. As soon as that committee meeting is
6 concluded -- and I realize sometimes that
7 communication gets a little difficult, but for
8 today, we'll hold them at the desk and then when
9 the committee meeting is concluded, we'll take
10 them up.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At your
12 request, Senator Hannon, we will do that. The
13 Secretary will call the non-controversial
14 calendar for Supplemental Calendar Number 1.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1117, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 523-A, an
17 act to amend the Executive Law, the Tax Law and
18 the State Finance Law, in relation to missing
19 children.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
23 act shall take effect on the first day of
8015
1 November.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1118, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1015, an act
10 to amend the Highway Law, in relation to bridges
11 in the county of Delaware.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
13 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
14 will read the last section.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Please lay the
16 bill aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority
19 Leader, Senator Paterson.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1120, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2187, an
22 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
23 relation to strengthening the standards
8016
1 regulating excessive noise.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1121, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 2350-A, an
14 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
15 reports by registered charitable organizations.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect in 90 days.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
8017
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1123, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3110, an
5 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the
6 amount of unemployment benefits payable to a
7 recipient of Workers' Compensation benefits.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the first Monday of the
12 month.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
17 the results when tabulated.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
19 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1124, by Senator Santiago, Senate Print 3625, an
8018
1 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey
2 its interest in certain real property acquired
3 by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of
4 Brooklyn.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
6 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1125, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3662, an
18 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security
19 Law, in relation to individuals who make
20 application for ordinary and accidental
21 disability retirement benefits.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will read the last section.
8019
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1126, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3830-A, an
11 act to amend the Public Officers Law and the
12 Town Law, in relation to eliminating the
13 residency requirement for eligibility for
14 holding the office of town justice in the town
15 of West Union.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: May we lay
19 that aside, Mr. President?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
21 bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1129, Senator Trunzo moves to discharge from the
8020
1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7333-A
2 and substitute it for the identical Calendar
3 Number 1129.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 substitution is ordered. The Secretary will
6 call Calendar Number 1129.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1129, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
9 Assembly Print 7333-A, an act to amend the
10 Retirement and Social Security Law, in relation
11 to the establishment of retirement programs.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
13 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
14 will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
21 the results when tabulated.
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
23 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
8021
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1130, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4130, an
5 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
6 benefits to be provided in the event certain
7 members of the New York State Teachers
8 Retirement System die before their applications
9 for retirement would ordinarily have become
10 effective.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1131, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4435, an
23 act to amend the Retirement and Social
8022
1 Security -
2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay that bill
3 aside for the day, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5 bill aside for the day at the request of the
6 sponsor.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1135, Senator Hoblock moves to discharge from
9 the Committee on Labor, Assembly Bill Number
10 4823 and substitute it for the identical
11 Calendar 1135.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 substitution is ordered. The Secretary will
14 read the title.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1135, by
16 Member of the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Print
17 4823, an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation
18 to developing a policy and a report on the issue
19 of employees forced to leave employment due to
20 domestic violence.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8023
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1137, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4634-A,
10 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
11 the State Finance Law and Chapter 115 of the
12 Laws of 1894, relating to the better protection
13 of lost and strayed animals.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay the bill
15 aside temporarily.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside temporarily.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1138, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4849, an
20 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security
21 Law, in relation to retirement allowance options
22 provided by the New York State Teachers
23 Retirement System.
8024
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1139, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5044-A, an
13 act to amend the -
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
16 bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1140, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5062-A, an
19 act to amend -
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8025
1 1141, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5120, an
2 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
3 establishing limitations for the percentage of
4 savings banks' assets.
5 SENATOR HANNON: Can you lay
6 aside 1141, Mr. President?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
8 bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1142, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5205, an
11 act to authorize certain participating employers
12 to elect -- to provide the retirement incentive
13 provided for in Chapter 12 of the Laws of 1995.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1143, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5250, an
23 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm
8026
1 the acts and proceedings of the board of
2 trustees of the village of Vernon, Oneida
3 County.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 Senator Hannon, that completes
9 the non-controversial. We do have a lot of
10 housekeeping at the desk, if you would like to
11 clean the calendar up.
12 SENATOR HANNON: That would be a
13 fine idea to proceed and try to do that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
15 recognizes Senator Holland.
16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
17 on page 42, I offer the following amendments to
18 Calendar Number 441, Senate Print Number 3623,
19 and ask that the said bill retain its place on
20 the Third Reading Calendar for Senator Saland.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 amendments to Calendar Number 441 are received
23 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
8027
1 the third reading starred calendar.
2 Senator Holland.
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: For Senator
4 Johnson, I wish to call up his bill number 571
5 having passed both houses and not delivered to
6 the Governor.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the title.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 94, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 571, an act
11 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to procedures
12 for written communications.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Holland.
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
16 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
17 bill was passed and ask that the said bill be
18 restored to the order of third reading.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 motion is reconsider the vote by which the bill
21 passed the house. The Secretary will call the
22 roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
8028
1 reconsideration.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Holland.
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
6 I now offer up the following amendments.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 amendments are received and adopted.
9 Senator Holland.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
11 on page number 4, I offer the following
12 amendments to Calendar Number 110, Senate Print
13 Number 2135 and ask that the said bill retain
14 its place on the Third Reading Calendar for
15 Senator Lack.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 amendments to Calendar Number 110 are received
18 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
19 the Third Reading Calendar.
20 Senator Holland.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: For Senator
22 Goodman, on page 20, I offer the following
23 amendments to Calendar 740, Senate Print Number
8029
1 3424-A and ask that the said bill retain its
2 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 amendments to Calendar Number 740 are received
5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
6 the Third Reading Calendar.
7 Senator Hannon, we have one
8 substitution to take up, if you would like to
9 take that up at this time.
10 SENATOR HANNON: Can we move that
11 substitution?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the substitution.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 18,
15 Senator Tully moves to discharge from the
16 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 243 and
17 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
18 670.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 substitution is ordered.
21 Senator Hannon.
22 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, I
23 understand at the desk there are some privileged
8030
1 resolutions. I would like to return to that
2 order of business and ask that we take them up
3 at this time.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Senate will return to the order of motions and
6 resolutions. There's a privileged resolution by
7 Senator Smith at the desk. I'll ask the
8 Secretary to read the title.
9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Smith,
10 Legislative Resolution commending Howard Jones
11 upon the occasion of his retirement from active
12 service in the Professional Staff Congress and
13 the City University of New York.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 question is on the resolution. All those favor
16 signify by saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye".)
18 Opposed, nay.
19 (There was no response.)
20 The resolution is adopted.
21 There's also a privileged
22 resolution by Senator Mendez at the desk. I'll
23 ask the Secretary to read the title.
8031
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 Mendez, Legislative Resolution commending
3 Minerva Rios upon the occasion of her 90th
4 birthday to be celebrated on Friday, June 9,
5 1995.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 question is on the resolution. All those in
8 favor signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye".)
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The resolution is adopted.
13 The Chair recognizes Senator
14 Hannon.
15 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, I
16 would ask that we stand at ease for a moment
17 until -- awaiting the report from committees.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Senate will stand at ease for a moment.
20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
21 ease.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
23 Mendez, why do you rise?
8032
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I
2 would like to announce that there will be an
3 immediate conference of the Democratic Minority
4 in Room 314.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
6 you.
7 There will be an immediate
8 conference of the Senate Minority Conference in
9 the Minority Conference Room.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
12 stand at ease until 3:35.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
14 Senate will stand at ease until 3:35.
15 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
16 ease from 3:10 p.m. until 4:10 p.m.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
19 take their places, the staff to find their
20 places. Ask the Sergeant-at-arms to close the
21 doors.
22 The Chair recognizes Senator
23 Libous.
8033
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
2 can we go to the reports of standing committees
3 to hear a Rules report, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
5 return to reports of standing committees. I'll
6 ask the Secretary to read the Rules report at
7 the desk.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
9 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
10 following bills:
11 Senate Print 5311, by the
12 Committee on Rules, an act in relation to
13 certain provisions which impact upon the
14 expenditure of certain appropriations made by
15 Chapter 54 of the Laws of 1995 which enacts the
16 Capital Projects Budget;
17 5312, by the Committee on Rules,
18 an act in relation to certain provisions which
19 impact upon the expenditure of certain
20 appropriations made by Chapter 50 of the Laws of
21 1995 which enacts the State Operations Budget;
22 And 5319, by the Committee on
23 Rules, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
8034
1 Law, the Family Court Act and the Public Health
2 Law, in relation to testing of certain criminal
3 defendants and juveniles for human immuno
4 deficiency virus;
5 All bills ordered directly for
6 third reading.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: I move that we
10 adopt the Rules Committee report.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion is to adopt the Rules report. All those
13 in favor signify by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye".)
15 Opposed, nay.
16 (There was no response.)
17 The Rules report is adopted.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you call
20 up Calendar Number 1145.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
23 1145.
8035
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1145, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
3 Print 5311, an act in relation to certain
4 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
5 certain appropriations made by Chapter 54 of the
6 Laws of 1995.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
10 is there a message of necessity at the desk?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
12 informed by the Secretary a message of necessity
13 is at the desk, Senator Libous.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Can we move to
15 accept the message?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 motion is to accept the message of necessity at
18 the desk on Calendar Number 1145. All those in
19 favor signify by saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye".)
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (There was no response.)
23 The message of necessity is
8036
1 accepted.
2 The Secretary will read the last
3 section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 56. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
14 would you please call up Calendar Number 1146.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
17 1146.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1146, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
20 Print 5312, an act in relation to certain
21 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
22 certain appropriations made by Chapter 50 of the
23 Laws of 1995.
8037
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
4 is there a message of necessity at the desk?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
6 informed by the Secretary a message of necessity
7 is at the desk, Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
9 can we move to accept that message?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
12 Calendar Number 1146 which is at the desk. All
13 those in favor signify by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye".)
15 Opposed, nay.
16 (There was no response.)
17 The message is accepted.
18 The Secretary will read the last
19 section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 46. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
8038
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
4 the results when tabulated.
5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
6 the negative on Calendar 1146 are Senators
7 Dollinger, Leichter, Smith and Stachowski. Ayes
8 54, nays 4. Also, Senator Abate. Ayes 53, nays
9 5.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
14 can we go to the Supplemental Calendar Number 1,
15 controversial reading, please?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will call the controversial calendar,
18 Supplemental Calendar Number 1, commencing with
19 Calendar Number 1118.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1118, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1015, an act
22 to amend the Highway Law, in relation to bridges
23 in the county of Delaware.
8039
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
2 home rule message at the desk.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An
5 explanation has been asked for.
6 Senator Libous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
8 we're going to have to lay that bill aside.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
10 bill aside temporarily.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1126, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3830-A, an
13 act to amend the Public Officers Law and the
14 Town Law, in relation to eliminating the
15 residency requirement for eligibility for
16 holding the office of town justice.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8040
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1137, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4634-A,
6 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
7 the State Finance Law and Chapter 115 of the
8 Laws of 1894, relating to the better protection
9 of lost and strayed animals.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside
12 temporarily, please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside temporarily.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1139, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5044-A, an
17 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
18 relation to the powers and duties of the Port of
19 Oswego Authority.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Wright, an explanation has been asked for by the
23 Acting Minority Leader, Senator Paterson, on
8041
1 Calendar Number 1139, Senate Print 5044-A.
2 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 The bill amends the Public
5 Authorities Law. Last year, we enacted
6 legislation amending the Public Authorities Law,
7 allowing the Port of Oswego to finance
8 industrial projects. As part of the revisions
9 to that statute last year, we need to make a
10 technical correction this year to remove a cap
11 that is -- that was previously placed on the
12 interest paid on bonds, and since that
13 limitation is five percent, that effectively
14 restricts the ability of the authority to pursue
15 the projects that they wish to.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read -- Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
19 if the sponsor would yield for a question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Wright, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes, I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8042
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Maybe you said
3 this and I just didn't hear it. Why are we
4 removing the cap here?
5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, a
6 year ago when we amended the Public Authorities
7 Law to authorize the Port of Oswego to finance
8 industrial projects, we also amended it so that
9 it coincided with all of the IDA reforms that we
10 enacted a year ago.
11 In one of the revisions of the
12 bill, we inadvertently left out the language
13 that would eliminate the cap, so that it would
14 conform with IDA law. Now we're going back
15 making the technical amendment at the request of
16 the Port of Oswego.
17 At the current limitation of five
18 percent, it restricts their ability to
19 effectively sell and issue bonds given what the
20 financial markets are currently.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: In other words
8043
1 -- in other words, Mr. President, this
2 legislation, if Senator Wright agrees, will
3 correct something that we assumed existed in the
4 legislation that we passed last year?
5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Correct.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Dollinger.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, Mr.
10 President, the question was answered.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Dollinger waives.
13 The Secretary will read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8044
1 1140, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5062-A, an
2 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
3 relation to the acquisition of real property by
4 the Water Authority of Southeastern Nassau
5 County.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Levy, an explanation of Calendar Number 1140,
9 Senate Print 5062-A, has been asked for by
10 Senator Paterson.
11 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson,
12 this bill has been requested by the Southeast
13 Nassau Water Authority, and Southeastern Nassau
14 Water Authority was created to explore a
15 takeover of the New York Water Company so that
16 the territory and service of that water
17 authority would become public.
18 As negotiations have moved
19 forward with this takeover, bond counsel have
20 advised the board of the water authority that
21 they need statutory authority not to hold -- not
22 to hold the public hearings that are required
23 within this bill, but if they choose to hold a
8045
1 non-binding referendum according to their bond
2 counsel and counsel, they must have legislative
3 authority to do so.
4 So what this bill does is to give
5 the authorization to the water authority to have
6 the non-binding election -- referendum, I should
7 say, on -- and let the public vote and tell them
8 how they feel as it relates to the proposed
9 takeover of the New York Water Company.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 if the sponsor would yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator,
15 Levy, will you yield?
16 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy,
20 I don't understand why we need a non-binding
21 referendum where I would imagine that the same
22 purpose might be accomplished through a public
23 hearing.
8046
1 SENATOR LEVY: Well, I don't
2 agree with you that the same purpose of a water
3 -- a water corporation with a territory that
4 not only takes up a significant part of the
5 southeastern part of the town of Hempstead,
6 which is the largest town in the United States
7 of America in terms of population and bigger
8 than eight states or nine states and the town of
9 Oyster Bay.
10 Part of the town of Oyster Bay,
11 in my experience -- and maybe it's been
12 different with yours with public hearings -- no
13 matter how hard you or I or the people that
14 would be involved with this water authority try
15 to get people to come out to a public hearing,
16 they just don't, in fact, come out; but if you
17 give them an election -- an election date to
18 come out and vote on a non-binding referendum -
19 and incidentally, under this bill, the date
20 would be set by the Nassau County Board of
21 Elections and presumably they will be setting -
22 setting this referendum concurrently with other
23 elections that will be taking place within the
8047
1 town of Hempstead and the town of Oyster Bay.
2 You are going to have a significant -- a
3 significant percentage of people to come out and
4 through the ballot box to say yea or nay if
5 there is to be a public takeover of the New York
6 Water Authority.
7 And let me tell you that we are
8 talking about a price -- a price to acquire this
9 water authority between -- somewhere between 50
10 and $80 million, and certainly the -- the rate
11 payers who live within the territory of the New
12 York Water Service Corporation certainly have an
13 important interest in expressing themselves as
14 to whether they think that this water authority
15 should be taken over by the public sector or
16 left with the private sector in the New York
17 Water Corporation.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
22 Levy would continue to yield for a question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8048
1 Levy, do you continue to yield?
2 SENATOR LEVY: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senator continues to yield.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, now I
6 do understand why you want to hold this through
7 a non-binding referendum as opposed to -
8 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson,
9 it's not a question of whether I want to do it
10 or not. All this bill does is to authorize the
11 board of the New York Water -- the board of the
12 Southeastern Water Authority, if they decide to
13 do a non-binding referendum, to permit them to
14 do it and to work with the Nassau County Board
15 of Elections on a date for the referendum.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
19 Senator. Now I can understand why somebody
20 might want to have a non-binding referendum
21 based on what you urged us about the problems
22 holding public hearings.
23 However, the authority made the
8049
1 request. My question is who is actually going
2 to pay for the election? Is this going to be
3 paid for through money of the water authority or
4 is it going to come from the town or who exactly
5 is going to sponsor this election? How much is
6 it going to cost? Is there going to be a local
7 fiscal impact, because this is something that I
8 guess could be put on the ballot with other
9 issues at a different -- at a different time,
10 but we're just curious as to how much this
11 election which, from what you're telling me is
12 more informational than anything else, is going
13 to cost?
14 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson,
15 that is a matter between the water authority and
16 the County Board of Elections, and how much it
17 will cost will obviously determine whether this
18 non-binding referendum takes place on a date
19 when other elections are taking place within -
20 within the town of Hempstead and town of Oyster
21 Bay that relates -- that is within the
22 jurisdiction, I should say, of the New York
23 Water Service Corporation. I cannot give you an
8050
1 amount.
2 If there was a determination to
3 -- to say hold this non-binding referendum when
4 there -- when there were, for example, elections
5 of fire commissioners in the fire districts
6 within -- within the New York Water Service
7 Corporation territory, I would think there would
8 probably be no cost or little cost because there
9 would be elections going on and this would
10 become an item on the ballot at this same time
11 of another election.
12 If it -- if it were to be -- if
13 it were to take place at a time when there were
14 no elections, well, obviously that might -
15 might cause a cost of having a special
16 non-binding referendum on this issue, and that's
17 a matter that will be determined as well as the
18 course between the Board of Elections and
19 Southeast Water Authority.
20 Let me say also that they do have
21 some revenues that have come to them through the
22 state budget as well as contributions of
23 revenues through Nassau County.
8051
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy,
4 thank you for clarifying this for the members.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
6 recognizes Senator Dollinger.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would the
8 sponsor yield to just one question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Levy, do you yield?
11 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly,
12 Senator.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, my
16 understanding is generally in the Town Law and
17 in all of our municipal statutes, we have taken
18 a posture against non-binding referenda. We
19 have some restrictions, some town actions and
20 governmental actions that require a mandatory
21 referendum; for example, changes in county
22 charters and those kinds of things.
23 My question is what -- and I
8052
1 heard your explanation to Senator Paterson, but
2 why -- what is unique about this instance that
3 we should break that sort of policy against
4 non-binding referenda by governments of all
5 types? Doesn't it end up being a partly -
6 couldn't it end up being a confusing message to
7 both local residents and the decision-makers?
8 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly -
9 certainly by giving residents the opportunity to
10 express a yea or nay on any potential takeover,
11 I don't think is sending the wrong message to -
12 to people who are going to be asked to pay -- to
13 pay the course of the takeover of this water
14 company which, as I said, may amount -- will
15 amount to somewhere between 50- and $80 million.
16 Now, the reason that we are doing
17 this bill -- and I have to tell you, if -- if I
18 had my druthers with the direction that we would
19 be going, it would be to require the Southeast
20 Nassau Water Authority to hold a referendum on
21 any takeover of the water authority and that it
22 be binding.
23 Now, we had tried to go that
8053
1 route previously. A large number of the water
2 authorities in the -- in the state, though it
3 was the Southeast Nassau Water Authority that
4 was going to have that responsibility imposed
5 upon them, the other water authorities in the
6 state did not want a mandate from state -- state
7 government passed by the Legislature, signed
8 into law by the Governor requiring a referendum
9 on a takeover. The bill passed both houses and
10 it was vetoed.
11 So we now have this approach that
12 was requested by the board of the water
13 authority and this probably, with the exception
14 of a public -- a public hearing or a public
15 meeting that Senator Paterson referred to, will
16 be the only method to give people an opportunity
17 to say yea or nay on any potential takeover.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
19 President, just on the bill ever so briefly. I
20 guess I agree with you -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Dollinger on the bill.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- Senator
8054
1 Levy that given my druthers, I'd rather have
2 this a binding public referendum as well. I
3 think the problem with non-binding public
4 referendums is they become expensive polls and
5 they run into a problem because if the board is
6 predisposed not to do it or to do it and the
7 voter referendum comes in one way or the other
8 and you set up an opposition between the board
9 and the public, I think you end up with a
10 terrible muddle that tends to lead to
11 procrastination. I would have a binding
12 referendum that would allow the people to decide
13 for themselves whether they want to pick up this
14 50- to $70 million hit on their water bills.
15 So I understand that this may be
16 a fall-back compromise and I'm going to vote for
17 it, but I would prefer to have a -- if I -
18 actions are going to be taken by government,
19 we're going to go to the people and ask for
20 their opinion, we shouldn't ask for their
21 opinion and say it doesn't really mean much. We
22 should say "Your opinion means everything" and
23 it's going to be a binding referendum, and we've
8055
1 got that policy in the Town Law and in the
2 County Law all through our statutes that give
3 limited forms of referendum on specific issues.
4 I for one favor broadening that
5 class to give them even broader referendum power
6 because going to the people and saying it's only
7 for advisory purposes seems to me to be somewhat
8 at odds with our whole theory of government.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary -- excuse me.
11 Senator Leichter.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr.
13 President, if Senator Levy would be good enough
14 to yield. Senator, I apologize.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I must say
18 when this bill first came up, I was totally
19 disinterested, but as time passed and questions
20 were asked and I looked at it, it brought to
21 mind one question which I want to ask you.
22 Who's going to pay for the cost of the
23 election?
8056
1 SENATOR LEVY: I think I had
2 answered that.
3 SENATOR LEVY: Oh, did you? I'm
4 sorry. I -
5 SENATOR LEVY: For Senator
6 Paterson or Senator Dollinger. That will be a
7 determination that will be made among -- among
8 the Nassau County Board of Elections, and they
9 really have control under this legislation
10 because it is up to the Board of Elections to
11 set the date for the referendum. They have to
12 set that date.
13 Therefore, the cost of this -
14 the cost of this non-binding referendum will be
15 paid for out of the revenues of the Southeastern
16 Nassau Water Authority or -- or with the
17 participation of either the town of Hempstead
18 and/or the town of Oyster Bay or Nassau County,
19 all of whom have an interest in this issue.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
21 guess just one final question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Levy, do you continue to yield?
8057
1 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: I appreciate
5 that maybe by the bill you don't want to get
6 involved in the thicket of who's going to pay
7 for it, but I think on the other hand to leave
8 it open in this fashion, to my mind, would -
9 could possibly end up with the referendum not
10 being held or some other problems, and so on,
11 but I guess it's your district. You're doing as
12 always a very good thing for your constituents.
13 Why should I meddle?
14 SENATOR LEVY: That you, sir.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8058
1 is passed.
2 Senator Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
4 believe at this time we can go back to Calendar
5 1137.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will call the title to Calendar Number
8 1137.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1137, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4634-A,
11 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
12 the State Finance Law and Chapter 115 of the
13 Laws of 1894, relating to the better protection
14 of lost and strayed animals.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
18 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50...
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
8059
1 the results when tabulated.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 2,
3 Senators Levy and Marcellino recorded in the
4 negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Senator Nanula, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR NANULA: Mr. President, I
9 would like to express unanimous consent -- or
10 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the
11 negative on Calendar Number 1146.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
13 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Nanula
14 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
15 Number 1146.
16 Senator Libous.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
18 would you recognize Senator Smith.
19 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
20 Mr. President, I request
21 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
22 on Calendar Number 1145.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8060
1 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Smith
2 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
3 Number 1145.
4 Senator Libous.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
6 if we could continue with the regular order,
7 please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will continue to call the
10 controversial calendar.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1141, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5120, an
13 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
14 establishing limitations for the percentage of
15 savings banks' assets.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
17 if the chairman of the Banking Committee would
18 yield.
19 Senator, why don't you just
20 briefly explain the bill and then I just have
21 one comment on it.
22 SENATOR FARLEY: I am pleased to
23 get your support there, Senator Leichter.
8061
1 Actually, what this bill does, it
2 provides state-chartered savings banks with the
3 same parity of power that the federally
4 chartered thrifts and state and federal and all
5 the commercial banks in the state have.
6 These institutions are not
7 subject to any such ownership restrictions on
8 the mutual funds that they may invest. In
9 essence, this bill repeals the restriction that
10 the savings bank -- that's the state-chartered
11 one -- may only invest in a mutual fund which is
12 wholly owned by other thrifts and the pension
13 funds.
14 Therefore, these other entities
15 have more options available to them than do the
16 state-chartered savings banks. Federal and
17 state regulators have had -- have not had any
18 such concerns about these types of investments.
19 Basically that's it, Senator
20 Leichter, but I'm going to lay the bill aside
21 and go on to my next bill.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: You're laying
23 it aside?
8062
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the
2 request of the sponsor, Calendar Number 1141
3 will be laid aside temporarily.
4 The Secretary will continue to
5 call the roll -- excuse me -- call the
6 calendar.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1142, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5205, an
9 act to authorize certain participating employers
10 to elect to provide the retirement incentive
11 provided for in Chapter 12 of the Laws of 1995.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Farley, an explanation of Calendar Number 1142
15 has been asked for by Senator Leichter.
16 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you,
17 Senator Leichter.
18 This bill was drafted with the
19 assistance of the State Comptroller, and it's
20 going to be introduced in the Assembly by
21 Assemblymen Tonko and Luster.
22 The bill was introduced at the
23 request of the town of Rotterdam, which is
8063
1 within my district. Incidentally, Rotterdam is
2 bigger than Amsterdam and Cortland County, so
3 I'm carrying a piece of local legislation for
4 Cortland County. I forget who has that -
5 Senator Seward, my seatmate who is not here, but
6 he should be interested in this.
7 In essence, what it does, under
8 the provision of Chapter 12 of the Laws of 1995,
9 municipalities were allowed to offer the early
10 retirement incentive to their employees by
11 passing a local law by a prescribed date. The
12 town of Rotterdam and the entire Cortland County
13 passed resolutions by the prescribed date rather
14 than a local law -- they passed a resolution
15 rather than a local law.
16 This bill would allow these
17 municipalities to pass local laws within 60 days
18 of the effective date of this act, thereby
19 correcting this procedural error. Actually,
20 what it was was an error that local government
21 made. They passed a resolution as opposed to a
22 local law that allows them to do it.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you.
8064
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 Senator Abate, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I ask for
13 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
14 on Calendar Number 1145.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Abate
17 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
18 Number 1145.
19 Senator Montgomery.
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Why do
22 you rise?
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
8065
1 Mr. President.
2 I would like unanimous consent to
3 be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1145.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator
6 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
7 Calendar Number 1145.
8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
11 1143.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1143, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5250, an
14 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm
15 the acts and proceedings of the board of
16 trustees of the village of Vernon, Oneida
17 County.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Sears, an explanation has been asked of Calendar
21 Number 1143 by Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR SEARS: I welcome the
23 opportunity to explain this very, very important
8066
1 bill, and you're probably not going to believe
2 the explanation but it's true.
3 The board of trustees of the
4 village of Vernon passed Local Law Number 3 on
5 December the 28th of 1994. This law
6 discontinued the village's status as an
7 assessing unit. It was then filed with New York
8 State on 14-inch paper. However, since these
9 filings must be made on 11-inch paper, the
10 request was not accepted. Being that the new
11 year had begun and the January 1st deadline was
12 not met, the village's status as an assessing
13 unit still remains. The New York State Board of
14 Equalization and Assessment has indicated to the
15 village that this legislation is needed to
16 remedy the problem.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, you
18 expect me -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Do you really
22 expect me to believe that explanation?
23 SENATOR SEARS: Senator, all I
8067
1 can say is I don't make the snowballs, I just
2 throw them.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: So the only
4 problem is the paper was three inches short?
5 SENATOR SEARS: That is
6 apparently what happened.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Well -
8 SENATOR SEARS: It was a three
9 inch difference.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson on the bill.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 I really think I shouldn't comment on this bill,
14 but I guess we've all -- some of us have had
15 that problem, so I guess we'll leave it.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
8068
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Libous, I believe that
4 completes the controversial reading of
5 Supplemental Calendar Number 1.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
7 believe we have some housekeeping to take care
8 of.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do
10 have some housekeeping.
11 Senator Libous.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 I wish to call up Senator Bruno's
15 bill, Senate Print Number 5311, which is now at
16 the desk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read the title.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1145, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
21 Print 5311, an act in relation to certain
22 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
23 certain appropriations made by Chapter 54.
8069
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
4 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
5 bill was passed and ask that the bill be
6 restored to the Third Reading Calendar.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
9 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call
10 the roll on reconsideration.
11 (The Secretary called the roll on
12 reconsideration.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Libous.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
17 move to discharge from the Committee on Rules,
18 Assembly Print Number 8021 and substitute it for
19 this identical bill, and I move that the
20 substituted Assembly bill have its third reading
21 at this time, please.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Assembly bill will be discharged. The Secretary
8070
1 will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1145, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
4 Assembly Print 8021, an act in relation to
5 certain provisions which impact upon the
6 expenditure of certain appropriations made by
7 Chapter 54 of the Laws of 1995.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Dollinger, for the benefit of the members, this
14 is a bill that was passed earlier in this house,
15 but there was a cross with the Assembly. We're
16 simply recalling the Senate bill, now taking the
17 Assembly bill up. We're passing -- we're going
18 to register the same vote unless somebody wishes
19 to vote differently.
20 The Secretary will read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
8071
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 3,
7 Senators Abate, Montgomery and Smith recorded in
8 the negative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 Senator Marcellino.
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr.
13 President. On behalf of Senator Kuhl, my worthy
14 colleague, on page number 31, I offer the
15 following amendments to Calendar Number 923,
16 Senate Print Number 3172-B, and ask that said
17 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
18 Calendar.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any time
20 you want to offer up any amendments, Senator
21 Marcellino, you're more than welcome.
22 Calendar Number 923, the
23 amendments will be received and adopted. The
8072
1 bill will retain its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
3 Senator Marcellino.
4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
5 President, on behalf of Senator Leibell, on page
6 number 35, I offer the following amendments to
7 Calendar Number 989, Senate Print Number 3786,
8 and ask that said bill retain its place on Third
9 Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 amendments to Calendar Number 989 are received
12 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
13 the Third Reading Calendar.
14 Senator Marcellino.
15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
16 President, on behalf of Senator Leibell, once
17 again, on page number 36, I offer the following
18 amendments to Calendar Number 990, Senate Print
19 Number 3801, and ask that said bill retain its
20 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 amendments to Calendar Number 990 are received
23 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
8073
1 the Third Reading Calendar.
2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
4 recognizes Senator Espada.
5 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 I would like to request unanimous
8 consent to be recorded in the negative on
9 Calendar Number 1145, please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Espada
12 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
13 Number 1145.
14 Senator Stavisky.
15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
16 in the same manner as Senator Espada, without
17 objection, I would like to be recorded in the
18 negative on 1145.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
20 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator
21 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on
22 Calendar Number 1145.
23 The Chair recognizes Senator
8074
1 Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
3 would you call up Calendar Number 1111?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1111. It's
6 on your regular calendar, Calendar Number 60.
7 THE SECRETARY: On page 38,
8 Calendar Number 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate
9 Print 5103, an act to amend the Domestic
10 Relations Law, in relation to special relief in
11 matrimonial actions.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you lay
16 that bill aside for the day, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside for the day.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: 1118 next, Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1118.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8075
1 1118, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1015, an act
2 to amend the Highway Law, in relation to bridges
3 in the county of Delaware.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Libous.
6 The Secretary will read the last
7 section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
11 home rule message at the desk. Call the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is there any
17 other housekeeping, Mr. President?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 housekeeping has been taken care of for the time
20 being, Senator Libous.
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Now, Mr.
22 President, I say we stand at ease for a few
23 moments.
8076
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senate will stand at ease for a few moments.
3 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
4 ease from 4:49 p.m. until 4:51 p.m.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
6 would recognize Senator Libous, the Acting
7 Majority Leader, for an announcement.
8 Senator Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
10 there will be an immediate conference of the
11 Republican Majority in Room 332. That's an
12 immediate conference of the Republican Majority
13 in Room 332.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
15 will be an immediate meeting of the Republican
16 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference
17 Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of the
18 Republican Majority Conference in Room 332.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Senate will
22 stand at ease until 6:45.
23 (Whereupon, Senate was at ease.)
8077
1 (At 6:14 p.m., the following
2 announcement was made.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Good evening. Senator Mendez.
5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President.
6 I want to announce that there will be an
7 immediate conference of the Democratic Minority
8 in the conference room, Room 314.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 Room 314, Democrat Minority Conference Room,
11 there's an immediate meeting.
12 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Senate will stand at ease until 6:45 p.m.
15 (Whereupon, at 6:55 p.m., the
16 Senate reconvened.)
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
19 will come to order.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could call
22 up Calendar Number 1147, Senate 5319.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will
8078
1 ask the Secretary to read the title.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1147, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
4 Print 5319, an act to amend the Criminal
5 Procedure Law, the Family Court Act and the
6 Public Health Law, in relation to testing
7 certain criminal defendants and juveniles for
8 human immunodeficiency virus.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
10 Is there a message at the desk?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 informs me that there are messages at the desk,
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 motion is to accept the message of necessity at
17 the desk.
18 All in favor, signify by saying
19 aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (There was no response.)
23 The message is accepted.
8079
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr.
3 President. I believe an explanation -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar 1147 has
6 been asked for by Senator Paterson.
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
8 Mr. President. I will try to
9 have this in simple terms, in layman's terms.
10 This will provide and allow a victim of a crime
11 to have the criminal or criminals involved
12 tested for HIV, an HIV test after conviction. I
13 do point out this does also apply to juveniles,
14 youthful offenders.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
18 President. I won't delay the proceedings -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Wait. I won't
22 delay the proceedings considerably because
23 Senator Skelos is very hungry right now, but I
8080
1 would just like to point out that something such
2 as this needs further research and that the
3 issue of the conviction and testing the
4 individual is something that we have absolutely
5 no problem with.
6 This person is convicted of a
7 crime. They may have more than just committed a
8 crime; they may have risked the life of the
9 individual who is afflicted. It is a very
10 dolorous situation that occurs, and there's no
11 problem.
12 The only issue that I would just
13 like to address is the testing itself not being
14 reliable enough, and that there must be at least
15 two tests occurring six months apart, is my
16 recommendation, just to assure that the victim
17 of the crime is not in any way deluded into
18 thinking that they should not be tested
19 themselves. Other than that, the bill obviously
20 has merit.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
22 will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
8081
1 act shall take effect August 1st.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time,
8 please call -
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: On Calendar
13 1147, which we were just addressing, I believe
14 that Senator Hoffmann would like to explain her
15 vote. Can we allow that?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I don't
17 see her in the chamber, Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: When she comes
19 in, she can explain her vote.
20 Call up Calendar 1088, Senate
21 5235.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
23 return to the regular calendar, Calendar Number
8082
1 60, and I'll ask the Secretary to read Calendar
2 Number 1088, Senate Print 5235.
3 THE SECRETARY: On page 38,
4 Calendar Number 1088, by the Senate Committee on
5 Rules, Senate Print 5235, an act to amend the
6 Social Services Law, in relation to medical
7 assistance exclusion.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Before we go
12 to Calendar 1088, may Senator Hoffmann be
13 recognized to explain her vote on Calendar
14 Number 1147 now?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Without
16 objection.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
18 withdraw the reading of the title of Calendar
19 Number 1088 and recognize Senator Hoffmann to
20 explain her vote on Calendar 1147, Senate Print
21 5319.
22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
8083
1 This bill marks an important
2 departure from our previous attitude in this
3 state relative to HIV testing in that it is
4 apparently the first time that we have
5 undertaken a mandatory HIV testing, and that's a
6 very important first step.
7 A number of us in this house,
8 Senator Nozzolio, Senator Sears, as well as
9 myself, have introduced bills in the past that
10 would address the issue of mandatory testing for
11 HIV, particularly where criminal acts are
12 involved. In my case, and I believe for the
13 other two gentlemen's cases, we're talking about
14 inmates in New York State correctional
15 facilities.
16 This bill, although it's an
17 important first step, leaves unanswered a very,
18 very significant question, and it leaves us
19 open, I think, to significant criticism because
20 the effect would be that a rapist who has been
21 convicted of a terrible crime and has been
22 required by this law to undergo a mandatory HIV
23 test would then have the personal option of not
8084
1 knowing the results of that test and, therefore,
2 the personal option of not acting in any
3 responsible way in his future conduct.
4 We know statistically that
5 rapists tend to recidivate at approximately the
6 rate of 50 percent in this state, so there is
7 little reason to doubt that an HIV-positive
8 rapist, having once raped, possibly infecting
9 his victim with the HIV virus, could then with
10 rather unbelievable impunity granted by the
11 State of New York go out and do the same thing
12 again.
13 It is really tantamount to
14 providing a license to infect other women and
15 women and children in this state with the HIV
16 virus. I would really hope that before this
17 Legislature adjourns for the year this piece of
18 legislation will have a better review by those
19 individuals who have negotiated it and those of
20 us who were not privy to those negotiations will
21 have an opportunity for some input.
22 I would hope that the Governor in
23 his wisdom will send this measure back to us
8085
1 rather than sign it so that we may make the
2 necessary corrections and require that a rapist
3 not only undergo the mandatory HIV test but be
4 required to undergo mandatory testing and
5 treatment and be subject to some follow-up.
6 I think that to do anything less
7 would put us in a position where we could be
8 accused of being derelict in our
9 responsibility.
10 And I thank you, Mr. President
11 and my colleagues, for being a bit liberal with
12 the two-minute rule in my explanation of my
13 vote.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you
15 voting in the affirmative as you had voted?
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'm voting in
17 the affirmative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Hoffmann
21 I believe now has explained her vote as was
22 requested. We have voted on the bill already?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. The
8086
1 bill passed previously. Are you asking we take
2 up bill 1088?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Could you
4 recognize Senator Goodman first?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Goodman.
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
8 Would you please lift the sponsor star on Senate
9 1367A, Calendar Number 98.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the
11 request of the sponsor, the star is removed from
12 Calendar Number 98.
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time,
15 could we call up Calendar Number 1088, Senate
16 5235.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will
18 ask the Secretary to read Calendar Number 1088.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1088, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
21 Bill Number 5235, an act to amend the Social
22 Services Law, in relation to medical assistance
23 exclusion.
8087
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Farley, an explanation of Calendar Number 1088
4 has been requested by the Acting Minority
5 Leader, Senator Paterson.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't know why
7 it falls to me to explain this, but I will do my
8 best. This is, in essence, the Donovan bill.
9 That's why it has nobody's name on it. It's the
10 bill that restricts, if you will, the funding
11 for Medicaid abortions.
12 You know, if there is a tragedy
13 in this whole argument on abortion, pro-life and
14 pro-choice, and so forth, is that there's really
15 no compromising. This is truly a compromise.
16 This is a budget bill, a budget
17 bill when the state is facing tremendous fiscal
18 problems. Twenty-six million dollars are spent
19 for Medicaid abortions in this state, and let me
20 just bring to your attention a political
21 situation here.
22 The New York Times in a poll in
23 April of 1993 polled and said that 72 percent of
8088
1 New York State residents oppose funding
2 abortions. What does that mean? I guess
3 abortion is a personal and a private decision
4 and should be paid for with personal and private
5 funds.
6 This bill does not outlaw
7 abortions, and every year that the Senate has
8 done this type of legislation or this amendment
9 for the past quarter of a century, we can't
10 outlaw abortions. The Supreme Court has spoken
11 to that. All this does is bring us somewhat
12 into conformity with the rest of the nation.
13 Forty-three states have accepted
14 this restriction in saying they will pay for
15 Medicaid abortions where there's rape or there's
16 incest or there is risk to the life of the
17 mother.
18 There's all kinds of people that
19 will be voting for this bill. Our Governor,
20 Governor Pataki, voted for this legislation even
21 though he is pro-choice. Several other Senators
22 who were pro-choice will be voting for it.
23 Governor Casey, one of the most popular
8089
1 Governors in Pennsylvania's history, has been
2 very, very strong in this area.
3 You know, whether you are pro
4 choice or whether you are -- I respect your
5 opinion, your belief. This is a personal
6 decision. I respect your position, and I expect
7 that you would respect mine. I happen to be
8 strongly pro-life, but there's a lot of people
9 supporting this legislation that are not that
10 strongly pro-life, the pro-choice.
11 You know, some say that this is a
12 women's issue. Let me just say this. My
13 mother, who has passed away who died at 90, was
14 a suffragette. As a young woman, she worked
15 very hard to try to get the women's vote. She
16 was the most feminine and loveliest and most
17 informed person that I ever knew, and she spoke
18 on this issue to me a number of times.
19 She wasn't a bit depressed that I
20 was a Senator; but I tell you, this was an issue
21 that she felt very, very deeply about; and every
22 woman that I know in my family -- and I come
23 from a very large Irish family, Irish-American
8090
1 family -- feel very deeply on this subject; and
2 I'll tell you, it's an issue that is very, very
3 important to a lot of people.
4 Senator Nolan, who served in this
5 house for many years and always stood up on this
6 issue, was always out front on this issue, said
7 something that was very moving to me. He said,
8 "You know, I represent a district which is
9 around Albany here which has a lot of affluent
10 people and a lot of poor people." He said the
11 very affluent women used to come into his office
12 and say, "The poor women need more abortions or
13 need abortions." He said, "I had a lot of poor
14 women that came into my office and asked for
15 things. They had problems with their housing,
16 with their rent, with their issues of trying to
17 survive." He said, "I've never had one of them
18 say that they needed more abortions."
19 What this does -- and I don't
20 think there's anybody in this chamber that would
21 disagree that abortion is a failure. It
22 represents a tragedy in somebody's life. I
23 don't think that anybody would disagree with
8091
1 that, from Planned Parenthood -- that does
2 abortions -- to anybody else. It certainly is
3 the opposite of Planned Parenthood when they
4 have to end up in the back room taking a fetus
5 out of somebody's body.
6 This is an issue again today when
7 we've got a budget crisis that sends a message.
8 We're not outlawing abortions. We're not taking
9 away the right of choice. We're saying that the
10 state will pay for a Medicaid abortion when
11 there's rape, incest, or life of the mother, as
12 do 43 other states.
13 Again, I suspect that we're only
14 one of seven states. We're also about -- when
15 you think of it, one-third of the 150,000
16 abortions that are performed annually in New
17 York are paid for by Medicaid; and the vast
18 majority of Medicaid funded abortions, 89
19 percent, are for nonmedical convenience
20 reasons. In other words, what we're talking
21 about is elective abortions.
22 Medicaid doesn't pay for
23 everything. You can't get cosmetic surgery.
8092
1 You can't get an awful lot of things that might
2 be needed. Certainly, I think we have a right
3 under federal funding to restrict this. I think
4 that we should, and I urge the passage of this
5 legislation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Goodman.
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
9 As I have done many times in the past when this
10 issue has arisen, I rise to express my great
11 respect for Senator Farley and for his
12 predecessor in this matter, Senator Donovan,
13 because there is no question as to their
14 sincerity in their pursuit of this particular
15 piece of legislation.
16 But, Mr. President, I must with
17 some controlled passion respectfully suggest to
18 my dear colleagues that I think that there is an
19 aspect of this which they have totally
20 overlooked, and that is the fact that in the
21 state of New York we have always permitted
22 women, irrespective of their economic capacity,
23 to have a right and access to abortion. I would
8093
1 remind you, of course, that this matter was
2 taken up in the famous Roe versus Wade decision
3 in 1973 in which the United States Supreme Court
4 guaranteed women the right to choose abortion,
5 period.
6 It did not make that right
7 dependent upon age, marital status or ability to
8 pay. But since 1976, with the passage of the
9 Hyde Amendment, Congress has severely restricted
10 federal funding for low income women's
11 abortions, and currently the federal Medicaid
12 Program refuses to pay for abortions except when
13 a pregnancy threatens a woman's life.
14 But in New York State, abortion
15 is recognized as a basic health right. Here, a
16 woman's right to choose abortion has never
17 hinged upon her ability to pay.
18 I would ask my colleagues who are
19 on the other side of this matter one simple
20 question. Put yourself in the shoes of a poor
21 woman who does not have available the funds with
22 which to pay for an abortion but who,
23 nonetheless, seeks to have such an abortion, as
8094
1 would have been her right under the United
2 States Constitution, and ask yourself the
3 question, what are we to do with regard to this
4 tragic problem in relation to the specific
5 individual who, because of her indigency,
6 because of her poverty, can not enjoy the same
7 rights as her neighbors who happen to have the
8 money available for an abortion?
9 Mr. President, I submit to you
10 this is rank discrimination, that this brings
11 about potential tragedies; and in states where
12 the abortion right is denied to poor women, we
13 have countless examples of botched abortions, of
14 abortions in which they have found it impossible
15 to go through appropriate medical channels and
16 have resorted to home remedies and various home
17 techniques to abort their babies, with
18 catastrophic results, culminating in hemorrhage
19 and almost certain death. I believe that to
20 subject women to this type of punishment is
21 absolutely unconscionable and beyond the pale.
22 Mr. President, I would like to
23 speak to you for just a moment about the
8095
1 consequences of states which do not permit
2 abortion. Without coverage for medically
3 necessary abortion, vulnerable poor women and
4 girls have no other access to health care and
5 they must carry pregnancies to term even if they
6 risk their health or are victims of rape or
7 incest. Safe and funded abortions have led to
8 decreases in maternal losses among poor women.
9 Enabling poor women to choose
10 whether or when to bear a child has had a
11 significant positive effect on their lives and
12 on the health and welfare of their families.
13 The cost to the state of providing the medical
14 services related to childbirth and child rearing
15 is, of course, enormously greater than the
16 expense of funding abortions, which is not to
17 say that it is not desirable to carry children
18 to full term and, wherever possible, it is
19 certainly desirable to allow women to make that
20 choice if that be their wish; but to take a
21 woman who, after careful consideration, has
22 decided that she wishes to terminate a pregnancy
23 and force her into a position of not being able
8096
1 to do that, I think, denies her a very
2 fundamental right.
3 The function of government is not
4 to control people's reproductive choices. All
5 women must have the freedom to make decisions
6 concerning abortion in light of their conscience
7 and religious beliefs.
8 Mr. President. I think one
9 practical matter should come to the House's
10 consideration. This is a one-house bill. This
11 bill is repeatedly passed in the Senate but has
12 never passed in the Assembly, so year after
13 year, we have to go through what is essentially
14 a fruitless exercise.
15 I am certainly prepared to have
16 any member express his views on this who may
17 wish to; but I would certainly point out that
18 the fact of the matter is, when the dust settles
19 on this question, the state of New York will
20 continue to provide to poor women, as it always
21 has since the Roe v. Wade decision, the absolute
22 right to make their own decision.
23 I believe this to be just. I
8097
1 believe this to be something fully consistent
2 with the traditions of a compassionate state,
3 and I believe this to be something which this
4 house in its wisdom may yet find the appropriate
5 action to prevent this from, once again, passing
6 in the house, in effect, fruitlessly and
7 pointlessly, leaving us in a state of,
8 essentially, frustration over a situation which
9 will never come to the fullness of passage into
10 a law.
11 Women must retain their absolute
12 right. That is the issue at stake here, and
13 that is the issue I hope the house will consider
14 in reaching its decision.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Padavan.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
18 President. Senator Farley, I think, was both
19 eloquent and accurate in his articulation of the
20 meaning, significance and the merits of this
21 particular bill.
22 I would like, however, to respond
23 briefly to previous speakers' comments and to
8098
1 highlight one fact that Senator Farley touched
2 upon. The Congress of the United States in its
3 wisdom has decreed that this country shall not
4 benefit from any shared cost of Medicaid funding
5 in this category. They said, "We will pay half
6 of Medicaid," roughly half as we know it, "in
7 all kinds of things; but for abortion, we will
8 not," which is why, as Senator Farley pointed
9 out -- one of the reasons -- there are only a
10 handful of states, of which we are one, that
11 fund this entirely on their own.
12 I think that that is a major
13 issue, because if the things Senator Goodman was
14 talking about were true, then of the other 40
15 some-odd states we would be picking up our
16 newspapers every day and reading about these
17 tragedies, but we do not. We do not.
18 There are many things people,
19 poor people and not so poor people, would like
20 to have that they can not get at the taxpayers'
21 expense, and this, indeed, should be one of
22 them. Again, I repeat, I think Senator Farley
23 covered the ground very well, and I share 100
8099
1 percent in his observations.
2 But I think as we deliberate on
3 this issue and we come to our final conclusion,
4 we should keep in mind that this bill would make
5 New York State consistent with the law of the
6 United States of America as enacted by the
7 Congress.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
11 President. The law of the United States of
12 America, as I understand it, entitles a woman
13 with the right to choice. That is the law. I
14 would think that if many in the chamber who have
15 strong feelings on this issue, who wish that the
16 law be changed, this is the process and this is
17 certainly the forum to change the law.
18 This is an issue of conscience.
19 This is an issue of personal choice, and it is
20 one that each of us makes and each of us lives
21 with in our own way; however, I do not think
22 that there should be any fixed rules for the
23 interpretation of what is the actual decree of
8100
1 the Congress because the Congress has not
2 changed the law, neither has the United States
3 Supreme Court to this point; and, therefore, I
4 don't understand why we would be, in a sense,
5 subrogating the law by denying the right to
6 choice, and that's what denying Medicaid funding
7 for abortion would actually do.
8 What it would do is it would set
9 up a class system in which whomever was entitled
10 to make use of the law as it stands now would be
11 able to do so, but it would be economic. It
12 would be the economic choice of those who can
13 pay as opposed to those who can not pay. Now,
14 for those who can not pay, we have a Medicaid
15 system that exists right now. It is a health
16 care benefit for those who are indigent and
17 needy and would require this type of
18 assistance.
19 What we would be doing by
20 enacting this piece of legislation is, in a
21 sense, sending a message to those individuals
22 that because we who happen to be in the minority
23 because we have not changed the law have the
8101
1 ability to control the purse strings, we will
2 impose our value on you, again, even though if
3 you had the resources, you could under the laws
4 of this land receive an abortion, and so I think
5 this is one of those things that occurs when
6 people feel strongly about an issue and they see
7 it as a matter of principle; and, yet, what is
8 being missed is the fact that the major battle,
9 the one that I guess would reverse Roe v. Wade
10 has not been effected; so, therefore, everything
11 short of it must be employed; and in this case,
12 I think it is an inappropriate application of
13 that desire.
14 I certainly respect those who
15 feel the way they feel. It is a heartfelt issue
16 to the people who feel it, and it is one that
17 all of us have to consider on both sides whether
18 we are pro-choice or we are pro-life, and I
19 think that it is something that in this bill
20 inures to the detriment when we are actually
21 asking that incest victims or rape victims only
22 can be eligible to receive an abortion if they
23 report this case to law enforcement.
8102
1 When you report a matter to law
2 enforcement, you become the complaining
3 witness. It is now not only the victim versus
4 the perpetrator, it is now society versus the
5 perpetrator, and a lot of measures can be used
6 by a district attorney against a complaining
7 witness who happens to be reporting it not
8 because they want to bring a case but because
9 they want to exercise a right that they have
10 under our legal system.
11 So see how we have complicated it
12 in this bill. I am relieved to see that we have
13 at least corrected the legislation, and I
14 congratulate Senator Farley for seeing through
15 the legislation last year and amending it,
16 because, last year, we mandated that there be a
17 48-hour contact between the rape victim and the
18 incest victim and law enforcement, dismissing
19 the fears, the anxieties, all of the trauma that
20 would accrue after such a tragic situation in
21 the victim's life; and so this bill that is
22 crafted out of sensitivity to life, in many
23 respects, does not demonstrate the real caring
8103
1 for the abused individual, that woman or that
2 child who has been the victim of a horrible rape
3 or incestuous situation.
4 It is just not regarded in this
5 legislation because, again, we are making the
6 individual go to a law enforcement authority
7 rather than a child welfare agency, a social
8 service agency, some alternative hot line that
9 we could set up if this was actually how we
10 wanted to effect this; and so for those who feel
11 passionately about the issue, I would admonish
12 them that even in the bill as it is constructed
13 technically, we do not see any type of real
14 remedy for the victim of the actual crime so
15 that the victim can avoid having to go through
16 with an actual pregnancy and then giving life
17 and having to live with this problem for the
18 rest of their life.
19 In cases where the amniocentesis
20 test is conducted and the woman recognizes that
21 there is a significant fetal deformity, this
22 bill doesn't address that either. That is just
23 something that the woman has to live with, even
8104
1 though there is really no chance of any life or
2 meaningful existence coming out of this actual
3 pregnancy; and so, in spite of the technical
4 deformities that I think exist in the bill, I
5 understand the spirit of it.
6 I understand the beliefs and
7 certainly share in the concern. I don't know
8 that any of us can stand here and be
9 significantly convinced that we are right and
10 that anyone else is wrong on an issue that is so
11 highly charged, that is so highly principled,
12 and an issue that has meant so much to so many
13 people on either side.
14 But I would say that the real
15 discussion should focus on the actual issue of
16 whether or not we are going to allow for
17 abortions in this country and not any attempt to
18 subrogate the actual effect of a Supreme Court
19 decision and legislation that exists in this
20 state by trying to deny those rights to
21 individuals who in any other medical situation
22 that would be analogous to this would be
23 eligible for this procedure, and so I'm going to
8105
1 be voting no, Mr. President. I urge my
2 colleagues to do so as well. For those who do
3 not, I certainly respect and understand their
4 position, but I think that this is the wrong
5 method to actually make a change in what is now
6 a 23-year-old law in this country if that is
7 going to be the desire of those who oppose a
8 woman's right to choice.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If the
10 members would suffer an interruption of this
11 debate, I would like to announce that the
12 Majority Leader has arranged for dinner to be
13 brought in, as you now may know. Dinner is now
14 ready to be served to those members only who
15 would like to partake in it at this time. We
16 ask that only members go for dinner at this time
17 to try to accommodate the debate schedule to
18 keep things rolling along. As soon as the
19 members are finished, then we will notify the
20 staff that they are entitled and that the dinner
21 is available for them, too.
22 Hadn't thought about that,
23 Senator Waldon. What reminded me of making this
8106
1 announcement is I heard Senator Paterson mention
2 it at one time when he said -- he said, "My
3 father always said you can call me anything but
4 never call me late for dinner," so that's why I
5 wanted to make the announcement at this time. I
6 didn't want any of you to be undernourished when
7 you entered the debate this evening, so -
8 The next person on the list -
9 and this was not personally intended toward you,
10 Senator Oppenheimer. I didn't want the chamber
11 to vacate, but it just so happens you are the
12 next speaker on debate.
13 Senator Oppenheimer on the bill.
14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: As
15 everybody pours out of the chamber to go eat.
16 Thanks.
17 Well, eliminating this funding
18 would really cut the heart out of New York's
19 pro-choice policy. It's a policy which is
20 seeking to provide access to all women who are
21 forced to make this very personal, very
22 disturbing decision. The policy, really -- this
23 bill before us really would cut the heart out of
8107
1 pro-choice because the fact is the well-to-do
2 woman is able to take care of the problem
3 herself. It is the poor woman that we have to
4 worry about in our state.
5 The inclusion of abortion within
6 New York's Medicaid system is positive proof
7 that New Yorkers recognize and have recognized
8 for these many years before Roe versus Wade that
9 tolerance plays an important part in building a
10 civilized society.
11 This Medicaid program was
12 designed to equalize the medical services so
13 that we could protect poor women's health, as
14 well. Poverty should not deprive women of their
15 legal rights. Abortion is legal, as Senator
16 Paterson has said, but these legal rights would
17 be utterly useless to those who are financially
18 not able to exercise them.
19 Abortion is not a luxury item.
20 It is considered a component of women's health
21 care and medical service and should not be
22 excluded from those services. It safeguards a
23 woman's health. The very private decision of
8108
1 whether to carry a pregnancy to term should be
2 reached by a woman in consultation with her
3 doctor, with her partner, considering her
4 religious, her emotional positions and
5 circumstances, her family circumstances. It
6 should not be a condition of what her economic
7 status is.
8 It is a fair and a just policy
9 that New York has had for many years and it is
10 an enlightened policy; and in the milieu in
11 which we find ourselves -- it happens to be an
12 economically wise decision -- looking solely at
13 a budget is not the way I look at it nor most of
14 my colleagues who are interested in this issue
15 look at it.
16 This policy has been of
17 longstanding in New York state, and we don't
18 want to jeopardize the already fragile health of
19 many of our poor people.
20 Don't go away. I'm not finished.
21 In the past, access to these
22 funds has stemmed the tide of welfare dependency
23 and has curbed the trend somewhat of children
8109
1 having children in our state, even though it
2 remains a problem of enormous magnitude in our
3 state and is the reason that my task force on
4 women's issues is currently going around the
5 state on the issue of adolescent pregnancy
6 prevention.
7 Without Medicaid funded
8 abortions, increasing numbers of our State's
9 poor youth will have their futures utterly
10 foreclosed. They will be swallowed up by the
11 web of dependence -- welfare dependency, and
12 their children will face a world of hardship and
13 despair. Medicaid funded abortions have been an
14 essential part of the arsenal in this fight
15 against poverty. It has helped stop many babies
16 from being born into poverty. It has aided many
17 a young woman in getting a second lease on
18 life.
19 Prior to 1970, the poor suffered
20 disproportionately high maternal and infant
21 losses due to illegal abortions. Poor women are
22 more vulnerable to pregnancy complications and
23 death due to poor nutrition, anemia, and
8110
1 excessive births. Their babies are more likely
2 to be born premature, of low birth weight and
3 with birth defects or mental retardation.
4 Considering the thrust that the
5 Governor had in his budget to cut back AFDC
6 monies by 15 percent, it should be noted, but
7 let me again reiterate, this is not of the
8 concern to the advocates that it seems to be to
9 the Governor, but in New York State, the average
10 Medicaid abortion costs only a little over $300,
11 but the first year of public expenditures for
12 AFDC alone costs nearly $4,000 for each poor
13 woman who carries to term; and, here, we are not
14 mentioning maternity costs, pediatric care,
15 long-term costs for social services, food
16 assistance, housing. We're not considering
17 that.
18 Let me mention that currently,
19 there are thirteen states that pay for all
20 medically necessary abortions for low income
21 women. Of these, seven state legislatures voted
22 to pay for all medically necessary abortions,
23 and I would like to read their names. This is
8111
1 Alaska, Hawaii, New York, Maryland, North
2 Carolina, Oregon, Washington and West Virginia.
3 There are five other states that are paying
4 under court order, and these states are
5 California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New
6 Jersey and Vermont.
7 I would also like to take a
8 moment to mention just a few of the supporting
9 organizations, and these are only mentioning
10 perhaps 20 percent of the names of organizations
11 that support Medicaid funding for abortion:
12 The American Association of
13 University Women; the American College of
14 Obstetricians and Gynecologists; American Jewish
15 Congress; Columbia University Health Service;
16 Committee on Women and Children, the Presbyteria
17 of Western New York; District Council 37,
18 AFCSME; Episcopal Diocese of New York,
19 Federation of Protestant Welfare Agencies,
20 League of Women Voters of New York State;
21 National Association of Social Workers; National
22 Council of Jewish Women; New York City Health
23 and Hospitals Corporation; New York State
8112
1 Council of Churches; New York State Republican
2 Family Committee; and many, many of the YWCA's.
3 In fairness, in consideration of
4 economic equity, in consideration of the very
5 policy which the Supreme Court has enunciated,
6 eliminating this funding would really eliminate
7 the pro-choice policy in this state. We have an
8 enlightened policy that has been going on for -
9 I guess it's 1972. We're proud of it. We hope
10 to maintain it.
11 Thank you, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
13 Abate on the bill.
14 SENATOR ABATE: Like many of my
15 colleagues on either side of this issue, I, too,
16 feel very strongly, and I want to be on record
17 as to my opposition to this legislation.
18 I think we can not confuse -
19 having Medicaid funding available to women does
20 not say to women they must have an abortion nor
21 does it say to women they must have children.
22 What it says to women, whether they be rich or
23 poor, that they have a choice; and that's what
8113
1 the law of the land says, that, as a woman, you
2 have a choice what you wish to do with your body
3 and whether or not you wish to bring a child to
4 life or terminate that birth; and so the law of
5 the land says that that woman has a right; and
6 if we eliminate Medicaid funding for abortion,
7 there are two messages. One message is, "If I
8 am a rich woman, I can afford to go to a doctor
9 and get an abortion," and the second message is
10 to that poor woman, "Yes, the law of the land
11 gives you the right but not the opportunity to
12 have that right in practicality; and if you are
13 poor, you will not be able to have an abortion."
14 So someone mentioned that, "Well,
15 what's happening in all these other states?
16 We're not hearing horror stories because poor
17 women do not have access to abortions," and we
18 only have to look in our recent history in New
19 York State when abortion was once illegal and
20 what did poor women do, because poor women then
21 did not have access to abortions. They went to
22 what we call the underground doctors, people who
23 weren't prepared, did not have medical degrees,
8114
1 that resulted in late and illegal abortions,
2 resulted in death and mutilation; and for those
3 women and poor women who could not access
4 abortion, it resulted in unwanted births.
5 If you look at the bill itself,
6 though, the exceptions that are drafted I have
7 problems with, even though I'm opposed to the
8 legislation. There is a misunderstanding, if
9 you look at pregnancy which is the result of
10 rape or incest which has been reported to a law
11 enforcement agency for investigation. This bill
12 recognizes that abortions and Medicaid funding
13 should be available for that purpose, but what
14 it fails to understand is that many women who
15 are raped or victimized through incest do not
16 report these cases to law enforcement agencies.
17 If you look at statistics, if you talk to the
18 police, both of these crimes are among the most
19 unreported crimes to law enforcement. Many of
20 these women who suffer do not go to the police
21 but they go to the hospital or a family doctor
22 or a social service agency. So even in these
23 exceptions, there is a flaw. There's nothing
8115
1 about fetal deformity within any of these
2 exceptions.
3 I would like to cite four case
4 histories, and they are actual case histories of
5 women upstate who were poor, that under the
6 current Medicaid policy they were able to get
7 abortions; but if the policy changed and
8 Medicaid funding was not available, all four
9 cases that I will describe would have to bring
10 their babies to birth, the fetuses to birth.
11 Let me give the four examples.
12 A 27-year-old woman with four
13 children, the youngest of whom, age 10 months,
14 has been hospitalized since birth. This woman
15 finds she's pregnant again; and as a result of
16 learning this, her husband becomes abusive and
17 violent towards her and the children. Because
18 of the consequences and the situation in her
19 home and the fact that she has a child who is
20 already sick and hospitalized, she sought an
21 abortion and because there is Medicaid funding,
22 she got it.
23 Second example, a teenager whose
8116
1 mother is dead and father unknown spent 12 of
2 her 16 years in a foster home. Once pregnant,
3 she becomes depressed and suicidal. She, too,
4 under the current law has the opportunity to
5 seek an abortion.
6 The third example, a woman of 20
7 suffers from muscular dystrophy and finds it
8 difficult to care for her 18-month-old child.
9 If she carries this pregnancy to term she could
10 be crippled. She chooses an abortion; and,
11 again, under the exception it's an abortion
12 that's medically necessary to save the life of
13 the mother. Under this exception, even this
14 woman would not be eligible for funding,
15 Medicaid funding.
16 And the third example is a
17 43-year-old pregnant woman who, because of her
18 age, undergoes amniocentesis to test for fetal
19 defects and Down's syndrome is discovered. She
20 decides to terminate and because, now under
21 Medicaid funding, if that were eliminated, she
22 too would not have choices in her life.
23 So what we are asking is that the
8117
1 law of the land is available to poor women as
2 well as rich women. It is not only a legal
3 issue, it's a moral issue in my mind. It's a
4 human issue, and it's also one of a good sound
5 health policy.
6 If we eliminate this right to
7 abortion for poor women, we will be jeopar
8 dizing, I believe, the health and safety of
9 women. We will be taking sound choices away
10 from her, and I know as a woman I am offended
11 because I do not and, if I were a poor woman, I
12 would not want someone to say to me because you
13 are poor, you do not have choices over your body
14 and you can not make rational choices as to your
15 life.
16 I firmly oppose this
17 legislation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
19 Dollinger on the bill.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
21 President, I'll be very brief. My views on this
22 bill are well known. I'll simply cap the
23 comments made by my colleagues by saying one
8118
1 thing I will not do, and I've said this since I
2 was first elected to government, is I'm not
3 going to force women into back alleys for $50
4 abortions that will threaten their lives. I'm
5 not going to make doctors into liars and have to
6 say that they -- their patient is under medical
7 necessity for an abortion when it may not be
8 true, but they know they have to say it in order
9 to be able to get Medicaid funding.
10 I'm not going to make poor women
11 into liars who will have to report rapes to the
12 police so that they can be investigated because
13 they know that that's the only way they can get
14 funding for abortion from the government.
15 What I have vowed not to do is to
16 take the curse of poverty and turn it into the
17 tragedy of women's health, and I don't believe
18 that we should put women back into the dilemma
19 that they had before Roe against Wade, which was
20 that they had to seek back alley solutions for
21 their personal choice. I will not do it. I
22 don't believe we as a state should do it. I
23 don't believe, no matter what the other 43
8119
1 states do and no matter what the federal
2 government does, this is not the right thing to
3 do; and I stand here firmly to say that we ought
4 to provide the same choices for poor women that
5 we provide for women of means; and I remain
6 firmly committed to not bring back the horrors
7 to women who were exercising choice before Roe
8 against Wade. Poor women in this state deserve
9 better.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
11 Maltese on the bill.
12 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
13 I've heard my Senate colleagues refer to the
14 primacy of the health of the mother and the
15 detriment, the harm that would be done to the
16 mother if they were not permitted to go forward
17 with these abortions; yet, taking that as an
18 issue of and by itself, medical opinion seems to
19 indicate -- and I quote from a book that seems
20 to be accepted in the field, Human Reproduction
21 by Grimes and Kates, that abortion methods -
22 I'm sorry. I'm trying to cut it down so it
23 would be somewhat shorter. "Delayed or
8120
1 long-term complications affecting future
2 pregnancies and reproductive health ranges from
3 17 to 50 percent. The actual complication rate
4 is estimated to be far higher because most
5 complications go unreported. Clinics, where 90
6 percent of abortions are done, are not required
7 to report complications and rarely do so."
8 In addition, Mr. President, we
9 hear from the proponents of this funding about
10 the rights of citizens, in this case the women
11 seeking abortions. We hear nothing, and this is
12 perhaps not the bill to speak of it, although I
13 feel it's always the time to speak of it -
14 nothing about the rights of the unborn children
15 that are terminated by this procedure.
16 But if we take simply the rights
17 of the women, how can we match that against the
18 rights of all the people of the State of New
19 York, many of them people of conscience, who
20 object to their tax money being paid for
21 abortions on other people. If this is a
22 question of conscience, let all these proponents
23 of utilizing that taxpayers' money dig into
8121
1 their own pockets. They speak of interference
2 with a woman's womb. What about the
3 interference with the taxpayers' pocketbook?
4 We have in New York State an
5 ever-rising amount being paid for these Medicaid
6 funding of abortions. Wouldn't it be far better
7 if these same funds were diverted to care for
8 the homeless, to care for many of the
9 unfortunates that we hear of daily in these
10 chambers from many of the same people urging
11 this funding for abortions?
12 We have seen ever-increasing
13 abortions so that in 1992, we had some 48,500
14 Medicaid abortions to the extent of $21 million
15 of taxpayers money. In 1993, one of the last
16 years that we have figures for, we have 49,000,
17 almost 50,000 Medicaid abortions with a funding
18 of over $26 million that could be put to far
19 better use.
20 We hear of back alley abortions.
21 I ask you, Mr. President, how much better are
22 these abortion clinics that take no heed of
23 their patients, care not for past history,
8122
1 medical or otherwise, and churn out abortion
2 after abortion. Can these physicians be termed
3 ethical practitioners? I say not.
4 We have ever-rising costs for
5 Medicaid abortion, so that in '93 we had roughly
6 $432 per abortion. That's a decided increase
7 over prior years.
8 But I'm not saying that this
9 should be evaluated solely on the question of
10 funding or financing. What I'm saying is, there
11 is no reason that we should be out of step with
12 the majority of states, that we should be one of
13 six or seven states that insists on funding
14 these abortions, these elective abortions for
15 persons who feel they can not afford it. I'm
16 simply indicating that these are the same
17 do-gooders who feel that they can dip into the
18 pockets of many of my constituents who, in
19 conscience, oppose abortion and do not feel any
20 part of their taxpayer funds should go to fund
21 what they consider the killing of innocent
22 babies.
23 Mr. President, I feel we're
8123
1 taking a wrong step when we continue to fund
2 these unnecessary elective abortions. We have
3 chosen -- we have taken cognizance of the pleas
4 of our colleagues and others who have said and
5 spoken of traumatic injury to women who did not
6 comply with the prior legislation that we have
7 in this house that mandated a reporting to
8 proper authorities within 48 hours. So this
9 bill now could be called by many of the people
10 who agree with my point of view a watered-down
11 version, but take it as a humanitarian gesture.
12 So now all we require is a
13 reporting, a mere reporting that could be done
14 at any time up to the induced abortion, and yet
15 we hear the same thing now that we heard in
16 prior years, the same objections to the 48-hour
17 requirement, that these persons can not go and
18 report whether it was a rape or an incest.
19 Mr. President, this is not a
20 proper use of taxpayers' money. It is not a
21 proper use of the money of taxpayers and
22 residents of this state and residents of my
23 district who feel, in conscience, that abortion
8124
1 should not be performed by the State of New
2 York.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
4 Waldon on the bill.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President. My colleagues have really
7 addressed the major concerns regarding this
8 issue and I think most eloquently.
9 I would like to especially praise
10 what Senator Oppenheimer said and the manner in
11 which she said it and as well my Republican
12 colleague across the aisle, Senator Roy Goodman,
13 the esteemed legislator from the island of
14 Manhattan; and so I speak not to be redundant
15 and not to be repetitive but because I believe
16 the issue is of such great importance that I
17 would be remiss in not adding my voice to this
18 debate.
19 Clearly, the law of the land
20 allows for abortions, and it has not changed
21 despite what 43 states, as Senator Farley shared
22 with us, have chosen to do.
23 Clearly, those of us who can
8125
1 recall back alley abortions and the damage that
2 it did to the human equation do not, despite our
3 political position on this issue, wish this
4 nation and this state to return to, I am sure.
5 Clearly, this is a moral issue.
6 I am also Catholic. Those of us who listen to
7 our religious drummer come down oftentimes on
8 opposite sides of the issue though we practice
9 in the same church, perhaps even in the pew next
10 to each other.
11 However, when I hear the argument
12 that this is costly, I'm befuddled because if we
13 were doing it strictly with sensitivity to the
14 budget process this is much less costly than
15 forcing a young girl who is often a child
16 herself to bear the child in a poor circumstance
17 which will allow -- not allow, I should say, the
18 child to be all that he or she can be, and that
19 child will grow up to be a burden perhaps on
20 society.
21 I want to make it very clear.
22 I'm not saying that every child who is born to
23 someone who's poor is destined to end up in the
8126
1 criminal justice system. That is not true. No
2 one was poorer than I as a child or Lenny
3 Wilkins, who lived around the corner from me.
4 Welfare -- Frank Thomas, President of the Ford
5 Foundation, he made a success of his life
6 despite growing up in the abject poverty that
7 was Pachen Avenue and Madison Street Park,
8 Halsey Street Park; Clyde Lord, who is an
9 anesthesiologist now; Vinnie Cohen, even though
10 his last name is Cohen, he is a black man who is
11 now a partner in the Bennett Williams firm in
12 Washington, D.C.
13 These are all success cases but
14 the exception to the area which spawned us. So
15 every child born in poverty will not be
16 subjected necessarily to the pitfalls of the
17 criminal justice system, but sometimes it does
18 happen; and so I believe that if the young
19 person who is all too ill-prepared to bear the
20 child should wish to abort, then we should allow
21 that to happen even if we're looking at it only
22 from a monetary perspective.
23 I would like to look at it from
8127
1 the perspective of it is the law. It is the
2 right thing to do. Some people say this is a
3 woman's issue. I believe it is a people's
4 issue. It's a people's issue, not just a
5 woman's issue, but certainly the woman should
6 have choice and be in control of her body and
7 what she wants to do regarding the child that
8 she's carrying, and I don't think I as a man,
9 though elected by 300,000 people, should
10 interfere with that very private and personal
11 decision.
12 What I say here today won't
13 change a thing. Won't change a thing. It's as
14 if I'm flailing against the wind. Who am I to
15 blow against the wind? But I must say what I
16 must say because this issue is too important not
17 to have been heard.
18 So I would encourage my
19 colleagues not to do what is wrong in my opinion
20 but to do what is right in terms of choice by
21 women, to do what is right in terms of our
22 budgetary concerns and to do what is right in
23 regard to the law of the land.
8128
1 I have great respect for Senator
2 Farley. He knows that, and all who know me know
3 I have great respect for him, but I must differ
4 with him on this issue.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
7 Marchi on the bill.
8 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President.
9 This is a very delicate, difficult issue that
10 has troubled us for many years. If we go back
11 to the Hippocratic oath, which was the oath
12 taken by practitioners of the healing arts from
13 the years 200 or 300 B.C. until 1960, just a few
14 years ago, there was an oath taken by every
15 single physician, the physician who delivered
16 me. Whatever their religion or absence of
17 religion, every physician took that oath; and
18 with respect to caring and nurturing, most of us
19 for some periods of our lives were completely in
20 the hands of physicians that had taken that
21 oath.
22 What did it signify? What was
23 their estimate? Now, there have been very
8129
1 sensitive observations made by Senator Paterson
2 when he said the issue was really on the
3 centrality of the appropriateness, of the
4 rightness or wrongness of abortion itself. What
5 is the unborn? Is it something that is totally
6 available and preempted by reproductive rights
7 under that banner? Does it have any
8 significance? Do we owe anything to the unborn
9 at any stage of that development?
10 And that is the subject that we
11 have not answered very clearly. There has been
12 even in contemporary society where we have been
13 not consistent, even those of us, as I do -- I
14 oppose abortion. But there has not been a
15 consistent point of view because the very
16 medical insurance that we are covered with
17 provides for the expense of an abortion. These
18 laws, the contribution and the regulation of the
19 rates of reimbursement, are governed by the
20 public. We accept these policies. So in some
21 ways we've been had in that sense.
22 Most people are covered by
23 private insurance coverage, which is sanctioned
8130
1 and regulated by the state. So in a way, we are
2 part of that picture, but it still fails to
3 answer the question what importance we attach to
4 the unborn. Does it have any rights at all? I
5 think it's too simplistic to say that those
6 rights are completely preempted by reproductive
7 rights.
8 So it's a very, very difficult
9 issue, and I have to agree with Senator Paterson
10 and to some extent Senator Waldon when the
11 question is taken up, what can we -- what is our
12 answer? I don't think this is the ideal way of
13 tackling it because it doesn't attack the basic
14 issue, but it is the only way in which we can
15 address a feeling at this point.
16 Our jurisprudence was settled
17 some 20 years ago, and I suppose it took a very
18 decided turn when Justice Souter came on the
19 bench and gave it its last definitive twist, but
20 we have this great problem. It's the only way
21 we can speak to the very issue of abortion.
22 It's not about the funding. It's not about
23 financing. It's not about a lot of things, but
8131
1 it is the vehicle by which we express our
2 feelings on the rights of the unborn.
3 And for this reason, Mr.
4 President, I am going to vote for this bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
6 Espada on the bill.
7 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
10 Espada on the bill.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr.
12 Volker.
13 I, too, didn't mean to debate,
14 don't have much to add to the actual coverage,
15 but I must confess that I have been ambiguous at
16 times about not this issue as the debate
17 indicates, but I have resolved that issue by,
18 you know, I may have differed with reasonable
19 men on the issue of reproductive rights and
20 abortion, but that's all it is. It's an
21 opinion. It's an opinion that must always come
22 in second place to a fundamental right that
23 belongs to a woman -- to my wife, to my mother,
8132
1 -- to abort, and it has to stay that way.
2 We can have passionate debate on
3 it, but it's a woman's choice. I must also say
4 that the moral inconsistencies are somewhat
5 frightening. Someone close to me, I used to pay
6 close attention to them and especially on this
7 issue because I confessed my ambivalence, but he
8 sought some consistency here. He said, You know
9 why we fight for the unborn. We pass death
10 penalties. Why we fight for the unborn we pass
11 a death penalty of sorts, a life of poverty and
12 neglect onto children, babies.
13 We just passed a bill a little
14 while ago that essentially would not provide
15 welfare, Medicaid, basic subsistence to babies
16 that are born, to babies because we said that
17 that wouldn't be right.
18 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
20 Marchi, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR MARCHI: I just wanted to
22 -- you were aware of the fact that I did vote
23 against the death penalty.
8133
1 SENATOR ESPADA: I'm not -- I
2 only address -
3 SENATOR MARCHI: You know that.
4 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, I do; yes,
5 I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
7 Espada, on the bill.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: So the
9 inconsistencies are equally upsetting as well as
10 to weigh this in terms of just a moral issue.
11 But it is not a moral issue because we have
12 heard debate about the fact that it's really an
13 abortion versus reproductive rights issue, and
14 we've also heard about how this is the vehicle.
15 What is the vehicle? The vehicle is picking
16 apart women to make our case about abortion and
17 I think that is immoral because, if you have a
18 case, you have a case. We just don't pick on a
19 sector that is of least resistance, the least
20 organized lobby up here, because it will make
21 their case.
22 I think that not only is in
23 consistent; it is totally immoral, and so we
8134
1 come back to this whole issue of this bill.
2 It's immoral in its purpose and what it says on
3 its face, and it conditions it on what is called
4 a medical necessity. We should not play God nor
5 should we not play physician here. What is a
6 medical necessity? Is it just based on what our
7 physical, medical condition or by psycho
8 social, by family, what about a whole set of
9 complex issues which, according to this bill, do
10 not enter into the equation, into the decision
11 that a physician and a family must make.
12 So it is very narrow, although it
13 seeks to make a very broad sweep, and a comment
14 on our morality and our women's rights and for
15 those reasons, I have to tell you that I must
16 vote no.
17 Thank you, sir.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
19 Farley to sum up on the bill.
20 I'm sorry. Senator Montgomery.
21 I didn't realize. Senator Montgomery, on the
22 bill.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
8135
1 President. Thank you. I just want to speak
2 very briefly on this legislation.
3 As I said last year when the same
4 bill came up, and I believe Senator Farley was
5 the sponsor of that legislation last year, I
6 take the same position that this is, in my
7 opinion, anti-women, and more significantly it
8 is anti-poor women.
9 This is legislation which
10 represents, I believe, the notion that women do
11 not have the right to decide what to do with
12 their own body. They should not have a choice
13 in the matter of whether or not to bear a child,
14 and since it is their constitutional right to do
15 so, there are those among us who look for ways
16 to curtail that constitutional right and I view
17 this legislation as one of those measures.
18 I think that, as we try to
19 address the issue of preventing unwanted
20 pregnancies in the first place, and as we try to
21 address the issue of making health services
22 available to young women, to poor women, there
23 are those who also oppose us doing that.
8136
1 We do not have at this moment -
2 I realize that there is legislation, I believe
3 it's sponsored by Senator Cook in our house and
4 the chair of the Health Committee in the
5 Assembly, legislation that would make available
6 to young people in this state primary health
7 care and education services in their schools on
8 a permanent basis as a permanently funded
9 program by the state of New York. That
10 legislation has not seen the light of day. It
11 has not been brought to the floor of this
12 house. So if you really want to address the
13 problem of unwanted pregnancies, why don't we do
14 it in such a fashion that it can be prevented?
15 We have people who are opposed to
16 reproductive rights and counseling, opposed to
17 young people having access to information about
18 how to prevent premature pregnancy, how to
19 prevent a contact with sexually transmitted
20 diseases including AIDS and others, people who
21 are adamantly opposed to young people in
22 particular having information in the same way
23 that they are opposed to women having access to
8137
1 reproductive health services.
2 And, Mr. President, I know that
3 although we are talking about Medicaid funded
4 abortions, that is not the ultimate motivation.
5 The ultimate motivation is to deny women
6 reproductive services in general. So this is
7 just symbolic. It's not an agreed upon measure
8 at all. It's a measure that's introduced year
9 after year after year because it satisfies the
10 need for some people to -- to say symbolically
11 that they are anti-women. It satisfies a
12 certain -- a certain group in the state whose
13 philosophies are reinforced by this measure but
14 it is wrong, and every year we debate it and
15 every year I will continue to say that this is
16 the wrong thing to do. It is not in keeping
17 with what New York State represents, and that is
18 a progressive attitude about all of the people
19 in our state and their rights, including and
20 especially women.
21 So I'm opposed to this
22 legislation, and I hope that my colleagues will
23 stand up, stand up and say in no uncertain terms
8138
1 that we in this Legislature respect and regard
2 the right of women in New York.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
5 Farley -- Senator DiCarlo, on the bill.
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
7 I wasn't going to speak on this bill, but the
8 statement that just came from my colleague I
9 think demands a response of some kind.
10 Those of us who vote for this
11 bill are not anti-women. The abortion issue is
12 a very difficult issue for a lot of people. For
13 those of us who believe that the unborn child,
14 the fetus, is a human life, take that very
15 seriously and those who believe as you do in the
16 right to abortion take it very seriously also.
17 If you believe that the unborn child is human
18 life, in my opinion, you must be opposed to
19 abortion plain and simple. If you don't believe
20 that it is human life, then I can understand
21 your position, but to say that those of us who
22 support this legislation are in some way anti
23 woman, I think, is a statement that demands a
8139
1 rebuttal, and I would support this legislation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
3 Farley, to sum up.
4 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
5 President.
6 I won't go over everything that I
7 said in -- on the opening of this, but I would
8 like to compliment my colleagues because I have
9 heard this debate close to 20 years, and some
10 times it got very rancorous and personal. This
11 has not been the case.
12 Let me say that I feel very
13 deeply on the sanctity of life personally, and I
14 don't really see this bill as one that is overly
15 pro-life. As a matter of fact, it's a very
16 modest approach. It's a budget bill, if you
17 want to think of it as such. It says that this
18 state of New York is number one in all the wrong
19 places. It spends $26 million on Medicaid
20 abortions. 43 states do not take this
21 approach. 43 states say that they will pay
22 under the federal guidelines for rape, incest
23 and the life of the mother.
8140
1 This legislation brings us into
2 conformity with the rest of the nation. We can
3 do that in a lot of areas and I think be better
4 off.
5 I feel very deeply on this issue
6 and I just want to repeat a little call that I
7 got a few years ago from a reporter who was
8 quoting an elected official, rather significant
9 elected official. He said, "Senator Farley, so
10 and so said on abortion you either pay for 'em
11 now or you pay for 'em later. What do you think
12 of that statement?"
13 I said, "I think it's a
14 disgusting elitist statement." I grew up poor,
15 the seventh child in a family. I didn't end up
16 on welfare. I'm -- our Majority Leader, Senator
17 Bruno, grew up poor as poor can be. He didn't
18 end up on welfare.
19 What we're talking about is the
20 right for -- we're not talking about somebody
21 outlawing abortion, which always seems to come
22 up during this -- this debate. We're saying
23 unfortunately life is not fair. Medicaid
8141
1 doesn't pay for everything. We spend, and it's
2 been said before, we spend more on Medicaid than
3 the states of California and Texas combined.
4 This is just one other area where we're way out
5 of line.
6 This is a reasonable bill. It's
7 one that is going to pass, I hope. It's one
8 that is going to go over to the other house and
9 be alive, and I certainly hope that you might
10 want to support this legislation because, as
11 I've said before and I cherish and I'm grateful
12 for every vote for this, because there's a
13 number of pro-choice people that are voting for
14 this legislation because they believe that it's
15 the right thing to do fiscally.
16 As I said, abortion is a personal
17 and a private decision. It should be paid for
18 by personal and private funds.
19 I'm going to vote aye, and I'd
20 like the last section to be read.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read
22 the last section.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll
8142
1 call, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Slow
3 roll call called for.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Slow
7 roll call called for. Five members stand. O.K.
8 Read the roll slowly.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
10 SENATOR ABATE: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
12 (There was no response. )
13 Senator Bruno.
14 (Affirmative indication. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Aye.
16 Senator Connor.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
18 Connor to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 We've had this measure year after
22 year now for many years, and I still can't see
23 the logic on the part of someone who is opposed
8143
1 to abortions in saying let's cut it off for the
2 poor women because it's state funds when, in
3 fact, the state's fiscal system provides part of
4 the cost of health insurance for employees of
5 the state, for employees and family members of
6 all of us here, and those insurance benefits
7 include the right to abortional services.
8 So given that fact, the only
9 distinguishing feature between what this bill
10 would have done and the fact that those other
11 services would continue to be paid for, for the
12 family and staff of members of the Legislature,
13 is that poor women somehow or other ought to be
14 denied paying reimbursement to their service
15 providers for medical services that the Supreme
16 Court has ruled are available, are legal and are
17 the right of women to choose.
18 The fact is that in our state and
19 in our society, many people conscientiously
20 believe that abortion is wrong, but they are by
21 no means in the majority nor when we do polls
22 does that translate to a majority of the opinion
23 among the public. Logical consensus are not
8144
1 moral positions in our state, and our nation.
2 The Supreme Court has rightly set
3 forth that it's a matter of conscience and the
4 right of women to freely choose between them and
5 their -- the advice they receive from their
6 physician. It is not the business of the
7 government to be in anyone's personal private
8 life to that extent of denying that choice, and
9 I respectfully submit that it's not the business
10 of the state of New York to say to poor women,
11 you can't have a right to be exercised the way
12 middle class and wealthy women have a right, and
13 you can't say to these poor women, you can't use
14 a penny of state money when, in fact, the
15 hypocrisy is that state money does pay for
16 abortions for the staff and family members, and
17 so on, of all of our state workers including the
18 members of the Legislature.
19 I vote no, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
21 Connor in the negative. Continue the roll.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook
23 excused.
8145
1 Senator DeFrancisco.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo.
4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Dollinger.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
10 Espada to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President,
12 by way of explanation, I think Senator DiCarlo
13 said it correctly, said if you're against
14 abortion then you are for this bill. You can
15 not be -- you cannot have your cake and eat it
16 too. You can't sit on both sides of the aisle.
17 Pro-choice people do not support this bill. If
18 you are pro-choice, you have to go -- to vote on
19 this bill, simple as all of that.
20 Just for the record, Medicaid and
21 the expenditure, the increased expenditures are
22 -- that go along with Medicaid have to be
23 understood before they attach. Medicaid is not
8146
1 a poor person's program. Medicaid in this state
2 is a middle class and upper middle class program
3 that is serving in place of a quality, a welfare
4 long-term policy, so let's be right about that,
5 but fundamentally you can not attach a price tag
6 to a fundamental right unconditionally as we're
7 about to do by passage of this bill. So I have
8 to vote no.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
10 Espada in the negative. Continue the roll.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
12 SENATOR FARLEY: I vote aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber
14 excused.
15 Senator Gold.
16 (There was no response. )
17 Senator Gonzalez.
18 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman.
20 SENATOR GOODMAN: No.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.
22 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock.
8147
1 (There was no response. )
2 Senator Hoffmann.
3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones.
9 SENATOR JONES: Explain my vote.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
11 Jones to explain her vote.
12 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Again we
13 are here discussing a very emotional issue, and
14 many people have certainly expressed the pros
15 and cons far better than I could. I think
16 something Senator Espada said is what always
17 comes home to me, that I truly believe these
18 things are a choice between yourself, your loved
19 ones and your God or however you need to make
20 that choice, but it is a choice that I as a
21 woman believe I have, and I believe that it's my
22 duty to make sure every other woman has that
23 same right.
8148
1 I will gladly join you in
2 promoting education that will help youth
3 understand the dangers of sex and the importance
4 of abstinence when they're not ready to take on
5 the responsibility of a family.
6 I'll join you in educating and
7 providing all women with whatever they need for
8 the tools for a safe sexual experience if that
9 be their choice.
10 I will join you in extolling the
11 virtues of family and the right of every child
12 to have a secure home with both parents there to
13 take care of them because that's really what we
14 need to be focusing on.
15 I say many times when you come to
16 the point of an abortion or not an abortion,
17 it's already too late. We've missed all those
18 other pieces that we should have been focusing
19 on.
20 But the part I won't join you in
21 is taking away this right of women to choose.
22 Again, it's a choice that they need to make
23 themselves and certainly this choice should have
8149
1 no bearing on economics. It is constitutional,
2 allowed to all women, and we have no right to
3 deny that choice to poor women.
4 I again vote no.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
6 Jones in the negative. Secretary will continue
7 to call the roll.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
9 SENATOR KRUGER: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
11 SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
13 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
15 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell.
19 (There was no response. )
20 Senator Leichter.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy.
23 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
8150
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
4 Senator Maltese.
5 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Marcellino.
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yea.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
10 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Markowitz.
13 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.
15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Mendez to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President,
20 the bill before us today does not take away the
21 right of a woman to choose. The bill that we
22 are voting on today, what it really does is that
23 it does not allow a woman who is poor to have
8151
1 the money to seek an abortion after deciding
2 that that is what she must do.
3 I was not planning to speak on
4 this issue. I feel very strongly that the law
5 of the land is that a woman has the right to
6 choose. On the other hand, it is undeniable the
7 fact that any woman who commits or who goes
8 through an abortion is stealing a life. I don't
9 care what anybody says, those are my personal
10 beliefs, but I think that eventually that woman
11 will have to -- will have to, you know, explain
12 her actions once she dies so personally, I
13 believe that abortion is wrong. Personally I
14 believe it's a terrible things to do because you
15 are killing a life, but as a citizen of a great
16 nation and remembering that a woman should not
17 be denied the right to choose, I support this;
18 and finally, Mr. President, as a person that is
19 always fighting for those double standards I
20 must tell you it is a horrible thing to know, as
21 Senator Spano mentioned, that Medicaid, Medicaid
22 -- the Medicaid program in New York State
23 benefits economically more those who have than
8152
1 those who do not have. The working poor doesn't
2 have access to primary health services.
3 I don't want to compound that
4 situation either by denying a woman who is poor
5 the right to the -- to make available for her to
6 have an abortion if she chooses to do so.
7 I vote no.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Mendez in the negative. The Secretary will
10 continue to call the roll.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Montgomery.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
15 SENATOR NANULA: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Nozzolio.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
20 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Oppenheimer.
23 (There was no response. )
8153
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Oppenheimer.
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
12 SENATOR RATH: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
14 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Santiago.
17 (There was no response. )
18 Senator Sears.
19 SENATOR SEARS: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY:
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8154
1 Nozzolio.
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
3 sorry to interrupt this roll call to inquire as
4 to how I'm recorded on this vote?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 has you reported in the negative, Senator
7 Nozzolio. Is that how you wish to vote?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, it isn't,
9 Mr. President. I vote aye.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Nozzolio will be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Secretary will continue to call the roll.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
14 SENATOR SEWARD: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
18 SENATOR SMITH: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
20 (There was no response. )
21 Senator Spano.
22 SENATOR SPANO: No.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator
8155
1 Stachowski.
2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Stafford.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Stavisky.
8 SENATOR STAVISKY: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
10 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
12 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
14 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
18 SENATOR WALDON: Briefly to
19 explain my vote, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Waldon to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR WALDON: Those who
23 support this bill -- excuse me, not all but some
8156
1 of our people, because they thought it is too
2 costly, that we are, in effect, creating a
3 problem in terms of our Medicaid funding by
4 allowing these abortions, but as so clearly
5 pointed out by some of my colleagues on this
6 side of the aisle, the truer picture is that
7 Medicaid funding is not being abused by those
8 who are least able to pay for these abortions
9 and we are, by this action, drawing a line in
10 the sand and declaring war on those who are most
11 unable to take care of themselves, the poor and
12 the defenseless of our society.
13 In that war, I want to be on the
14 side of the victor. The victors, in my opinion,
15 are those who are least capable of fighting, but
16 they will have justice on their side, justice on
17 their side in the person of Pedro Espada, Olga
18 Mendez, Marty Markowitz and other right think
19 ers.
20 I vote against this legislation,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Waldon will be recorded in the negative. The
8157
1 Secretary will continue to call the roll.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
4 SENATOR FARLEY: Absentees.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will call the absentees.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
8 (There was no response. )
9 Senator Gold.
10 (There was no response. )
11 Senator Hoblock.
12 (There was no response. )
13 Senator Leibell.
14 (There was no response. )
15 Senator Santiago.
16 (There was no response. )
17 Senator Solomon.
18 (There was no response. )
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
20 the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32, nays
22 22.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8158
1 is passed.
2 Senator Skelos?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
4 housekeeping?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. We
6 have several things, Senator Skelos.
7 Senator Levy, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, I'd like
9 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
10 affirmative on Calendar 1137.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
12 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Levy
13 will be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar
14 Number 1137.
15 Senator Marcellino, why do you
16 rise?
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I rise to
18 ask unanimous consent that my vote be in the
19 affirmative for 1137.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Marcellino, without objection, will be recorded
22 in the affirmative on Calendar 1137.
23 Senator Kruger, why do you rise?
8159
1 SENATOR KRUGER: Mr. President, I
2 would ask unanimous consent to be recorded in
3 the negative on Calendar 1145.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 ob...
6 SENATOR KRUGER: Print 1145, I'm
7 sorry.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection, Senator Kruger will be recorded in
10 the negative on Calendar 1145.
11 Senator Larkin.
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
13 on behalf of Senator Bruno, I'd like to call up
14 Senate Print 5319 which is at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1147, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
19 Print 5319, an act to amend the Criminal
20 Procedure Law.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Larkin.
8160
1 SENATOR LARKIN: I move to
2 reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed
3 and ask the bill be restored to the order of
4 third reading.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
6 to reconsider the vote by which the bill passed
7 the house. Secretary will call the roll on
8 reconsideration.
9 (The Secretary called the roll on
10 reconsideration. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Larkin.
14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
15 now move to discharge from the Committee on
16 Rules Assembly Print 7993A, and substitute it
17 for the Senate identical bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
19 Substitution is ordered. The bill is before the
20 house.
21 Senator Larkin.
22 SENATOR LARKIN: I now move that
23 the substituted Assembly bill have its third
8161
1 reading at this time.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3 will read the title.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1147, by member of the Assembly -- by the
6 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly 7993A, an
7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Skelos, we have a message of necessity on this
10 bill at the desk. What's your pleasure?
11 On Senator Skelos' motion to
12 accept the message of necessity at the desk.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
15 in favor of accepting the message at the desk
16 signify by saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Opposed nay.
19 (There was no response. )
20 The message is accepted.
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
23 act shall take effect August 1st.
8162
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Under housekeeping, Senator
8 Skelos, Chair recognizes Senator Wright.
9 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
10 on behalf of Senator Holland, I wish to call up
11 bill Print Number 1247 recalled from the
12 Assembly which is now at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the title.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 87, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 1247, an
17 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
18 contracts for the transportation of school
19 children.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Wright.
22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
23 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
8163
1 bill was passed.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3 will call the roll on reconsideration.
4 (The Secretary called the roll on
5 reconsideration. )
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Wright.
9 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
10 now offer the following amendments.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
12 Amendments are received and adopted.
13 Senator Wright.
14 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
15 Senator Stafford, please place a sponsor's star
16 on Calendar Number 660.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the
18 request of the sponsor, Calendar Number 660 will
19 be starred.
20 Senator Wright.
21 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
22 Senator Goodman, on page number 23, I offer the
23 following amendments to Calendar Number 802,
8164
1 Senate Print Number 4632, and ask that said bill
2 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
4 Number 802 will be amended as proposed.
5 Senator Wright.
6 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
7 on behalf of Senator Goodman, on page number 39,
8 I offer the following amendments -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
10 me, Senator Wright. Dinner is over. It's time
11 we have a little order in the chamber. The
12 Secretary can't even hear the motions when they
13 know what's coming. Thank you.
14 Senator Wright.
15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 On behalf of Senator Goodman, on
18 page 39, I offer the following amendments to
19 Calendar Number 98, Senate Print Number 1367A,
20 and ask that said bill retain its place on Third
21 Reading Calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
23 Amendments to Calendar Number 98 received and
8165
1 adopted. Bill will retain its place on the
2 Third Reading Calendar.
3 Senator Wright.
4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
5 on behalf of Senator Maziarz, on Supplement
6 Number 1, page number 3, I offer the following
7 amendments to Calendar Number 1131, Senate Print
8 Number 4435, and ask that said bill retain its
9 place on Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
11 Amendments to Calendar Number 1131 are received
12 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
13 the Third Reading Calendar.
14 Senator Markowitz, why do you
15 rise?
16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you. I
17 would like approval to vote in the negative on
18 Calendar Number 1145 and also, if I may, Senate
19 Number 16A, back on April the 10th, in reviewing
20 my records, I should have voted in the yes and a
21 letter will go to the clerk of the Senate.
22 Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8166
1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
2 Markowitz will be recorded in the negative on
3 Calendar Number 1145. Senator Markowitz, the
4 record will reflect that had you been in the
5 chamber back in April, you would have voted in
6 the negative on Calendar Number 16.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: In the
8 positive.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
10 me, in the positive -- unusual -- on Calendar
11 Number 16. Thank you, Senator Markowitz.
12 Senator Paterson, why do you
13 rise?
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
15 we just passed Calendar 1088 by a vote of 32 to
16 22. However, my records shows that the vote was
17 33 to 22.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson, just for the record, why don't we read
20 the negatives. You want to read the roll, read
21 the negatives so we can straighten that out now,
22 Senator Skelos.
23 Senator Paterson, I'll ask the
8167
1 Secretary to read the affirmative votes recorded
2 here first and then the negative votes. You can
3 compare your roll call and address the
4 protocol.
5 Secretary will read the
6 affirmative votes. Secretary will read the
7 affirmative votes first, and then the negative
8 votes.
9 THE SECRETARY: In the
10 affirmative: Senators Bruno, DeFrancisco,
11 DiCarlo, Farley, Hannon, Holland, Johnson, Kuhl,
12 Lack, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, Levy, Libous,
13 Maltese, Marcellino, Marchi, Maziarz, Nozzolio,
14 Onorato, Padavan, Rath, Saland, Sears, Skelos,
15 Stachowski, Stafford, Trunzo, Tully, Velella,
16 Volker and Wright.
17 Those recorded in the negative:
18 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada,
19 Gonzalez, Goodman, Hoffmann, Jones, Kruger,
20 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula,
21 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Present, Seward, Smith,
22 Spano, Stavisky and Waldon.
23 Senators excused: Cook,
8168
1 Galiber.
2 Absent on the roll call:
3 Babbush, Gold, Hoblock, Santiago and Solomon.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Skelos, what's your pleasure?
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
8 Committee and the Senate will stand at ease
9 pending the report of the Rules Committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Be an
11 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the
12 Majority Conference Room, Room 332, immediate
13 meeting of the Senate Rules Committee, Majority
14 Conference Room, Room 332.
15 The Senate will stand at ease
16 awaiting the report of the Rules Committee.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Senate will
18 stand at ease, and the Rules Committee will be
19 getting together. When we return, we will have
20 a meeting of the Rules Committee and we will
21 then stand adjourned until tomorrow at 10:00
22 a.m.
23 (Whereupon at 8:45 p.m., the
8169
1 Senate stood at ease until 9:18 p.m.)
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: On page 42, I
6 offer the following amendments to Calendar 564,
7 Senate Print Number 4182. I ask that the star
8 be removed and that the bill retain its place on
9 the Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: So
11 ordered.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
16 return to reports of standing committees, I
17 believe there's a report of the Rules Committee
18 at the desk.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
22 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
23 following bills:
8170
1 Senate Print 594, by Senator
2 Montgomery, an act authorizing the city of New
3 York to reconvey its interest in certain real
4 property;
5 1085A, by Senator Maltese, an act
6 to amend the Administrative Code of the city of
7 New York;
8 1414, by Senator Present, an act
9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
10 Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Law,
11 in relation to the registration of snowmobiles;
12 1151, excuse me, 1701, by Senator
13 Spano, an act to amend Chapter 78 of the Laws of
14 1989, amending the Arts and Cultural Affairs
15 Law;
16 2789, by Senator Johnson, an act
17 restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to Tier II
18 membership in the New York State and local
19 employment -- employees' retirement system;
20 3125, by Senator Marchi, an act
21 to allow Michael Acito to receive credit in the
22 New York State and local employees' retirement
23 system;
8171
1 3177, by Senator Rath, an act to
2 require the New York State Teachers Retirement
3 System to accept a retirement application;
4 3725A, by Senator Sears, an act
5 to amend the General Business Law, in relation
6 to prize award schemes;
7 3940, by Senator Saland, an act
8 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
9 penalties for unauthorized disclosure of
10 information;
11 3976, by Senator Spano, an act to
12 amend the Labor Law, in relation to dismissal
13 payments to allow certain successor employees to
14 consider wages paid to an employee;
15 4230, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
16 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,
17 in relation to the confidentiality of certain
18 privileged information;
19 4245, by Senator Marcellino, an
20 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
21 Nassau to accept an application for the
22 exemption for specified real property owned by
23 the Chabad Lubavitch of Plainview, Incorporated;
8172
1 494, by Senator Marcellino, an
2 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
3 relation to establishing the town of Huntington
4 Industrial Development Agency;
5 4387, by Senator Tully, an act
6 authorizing the assessor of the county of Nassau
7 to accept an application for exemption from real
8 property taxes;
9 4514, by Senator Tully, an act to
10 amend Chapter 972 of the Laws of 1962, relating
11 to the Shelter Rock Public Library;
12 4518, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
13 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
14 preliminary and final revocation hearings;
15 4553, by Senator Lack, an act to
16 amend the Court of Claims act, in relation to
17 abolition of a requirement to file notices of
18 intention;
19 4908, by Senator Tully, an act to
20 authorize and direct the county of Nassau, town
21 of North Hempstead, village of Westbury and
22 Westbury Central School District to refund
23 certain taxes paid upon real property;
8173
1 4969, by Senator Velella, an act
2 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
3 eliminating certain criteria for multi-tiering
4 program rewarding risks;
5 4991, by Senator Holland, an act
6 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
7 to authorizing certain entities to make
8 purchases through the General Services
9 Administration;
10 Senate Print 5000, by Senator
11 Bruno, an act to amend the Public Authorities
12 Law, in relation to the Saratoga County Water
13 Authority;
14 5017, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
15 to amend the Correction Law, in relation to
16 providing notification to law enforcement
17 officials when a convicted felon is released;
18 5043, by Senator Tully, an act
19 authorizing the assessor of the county of Nassau
20 to accept an application for exemption from real
21 property taxes;
22 5117, by Senator Goodman, an act
23 to amend the Election Law, in relation to
8174
1 accessible polling places;
2 5164, by Senator Cook, an act in
3 relation to authorizing the town of Greenville,
4 Orange County, to sell and convey certain park
5 land;
6 5201, by Senator Leibell, an act
7 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
8 to loan insurance;
9 5241, by Senator Tully, an act to
10 amend the Public Service Law, in relation to
11 revenues earned by water works corporation; and
12 2807, by Senator Larkin, an act
13 to amend the Education Law, in relation to the
14 reporting of school safety inspections and
15 review thereof.
16 All bills ordered directly for
17 third reading.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
19 Without objection, all bills ordered to third
20 reading.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
22 stand at cease.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The
8175
1 Senate stands at ease.
2 (Whereupon at 9:25 p.m., the
3 Senate stood at ease briefly.)
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
8 recognize Senator Hoblock.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
10 Senator Hoblock.
11 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Thank you, Mr.
12 President. Unfortunately, I was out of the
13 chamber on official business when Calendar
14 Number 1088 was debated and voted on and had I
15 been present in the chamber, I would have voted
16 in the negative.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: The record will
18 so indicate that had -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: So
20 ordered.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: O.K.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA:
23 Senator Skelos.
8176
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 there being no further business, I move we
3 adjourn until tomorrow, June 7th, at 10:00 a.m.
4 sharp.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The
6 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow,
7 Wednesday, June 7th, at 10:00 a.m.
8 (Whereupon at 9:30 p.m., the
9 Senate adjourned. )
10
11
12
13