Regular Session - June 7, 1995
8177
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 7, 1995
10 10:00 a.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN A. DEFRANCISCO, Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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8178
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Senate will come to order. All will please rise
4 and join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance to
5 the Flag.
6 (Whereupon, the Senate and those
7 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to
8 the Flag.)
9 In the absence of clergy, may we
10 please bow our heads in a moment of silence.
11 (Whereupon, there was a moment of
12 silence.)
13 Reading of the Journal.
14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
15 Tuesday, June 6. The Senate met pursuant to
16 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon
17 designation of the Temporary President. The
18 Journal of Monday, June 5th, was read and
19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Hearing no objection, the Journal stands
22 approved as read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
8179
1 Messages from the Assembly.
2 Messages from the Governor.
3 Reports of standing committees.
4 Reports of select committees.
5 Communications and reports from
6 state officers.
7 Motions and resolutions.
8 Senator Marcellino.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
10 President. On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on
11 page number 40, I offer the following amendments
12 to Calendar Number 1170, Senate Print Number
13 5017, and ask that the bill retain its place on
14 the Third Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Amendments received and adopted.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 There is one substitution.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the
20 substitution.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 41,
22 Senator Tully moves to discharge from the
23 Committee on Energy, Assembly Bill Number 4065,
8180
1 and substitute it for the identical Third
2 Reading 1175.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Substitution ordered.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: We can take up
7 the calendar, noncontroversial.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: If
9 we could please stand at ease for a moment.
10 (Whereupon, the Senate was at
11 ease.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
15 At this time, if we could take up the calendar,
16 noncontroversial.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: On page 14,
20 Calendar Number 518, by Senator Volker, Senate
21 Print 1479, an act to amend the Civil Practice
22 Law and Rules, in relation to permitting the
23 joinder of consumer credit transaction.
8181
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 Secretary will read the last section, please.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect on the first day of
5 January.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 The bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3735.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Lay the bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 588, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 397, an act
19 to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to
20 the priority of the lien of a reverse mortgage.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 Secretary will read the last section, please.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
8182
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 The bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an
10 act to amend the -
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 Lay the bill aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 873, by Senator Levy.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Star that at the
17 request of the sponsor.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 The bill is starred at the request of the
20 sponsor.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 876, by Senator Levy.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill
8183
1 aside at the request of the sponsor.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: Is
3 that for the day?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
6 Lay the bill aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 943, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5055B, an
9 act to amend the Tax Law and the Administrative
10 Code of the City of New York, in relation to
11 revising the schedule for filing withholding tax
12 returns.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Secretary will read the last section, please.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect January 1.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 The bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8184
1 994, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5019.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Lay the bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act
6 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
7 relation to permitting the discharge of a
8 firearm.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 Secretary will read the last section, please.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 The bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an
21 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
22 relation to special relief in matrimonial
23 actions.
8185
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Lay the bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1148, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 594,
6 an act authorizing the City of New York to
7 reconvey its interest in certain real property
8 acquired by in rem foreclosure.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 There is a home rule message at the desk.
11 Secretary will read the last
12 section, please.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 The bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1149, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1085A, an
23 act to amend the Administrative Code of the City
8186
1 of New York, in relation to the number of
2 positions designated as first and second grade
3 detectives.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 There is a home rule message at the desk.
6 Please read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays 1.
13 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 The bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1150, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1414, an
18 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
19 Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Law,
20 in relation to the registration of snowmobiles.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 Secretary will read the last section, please.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
8187
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 The bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1151, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1701, an
10 act to amend Chapter 78 of the Laws of 1989,
11 amending the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside at
13 the request of the sponsor for the day.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Lay the bill aside for the day at the request of
16 the sponsor.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1152, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2789, an
19 act restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to Tier II
20 membership with the New York State and local
21 employees retirement system.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Senator Paterson.
8188
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
2 President. First, may we lay that bill aside?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Please lay the bill aside.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Mr.
6 President, has Calendar Number 1040 involving
7 the discharge of a firearm within 500 feet of a
8 building, has that left the house yet?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 No, it has not.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 I move to reconsider the vote by which it passed
13 and then lay the bill aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 The Secretary will call the roll on
16 reconsideration.
17 Please read the title.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1040, by
19 Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act to amend
20 the Environmental Conservation Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 Please call the roll for reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
8189
1 reconsideration.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 The bill is before the house.
5 Senator Paterson, do you want it
6 laid aside?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I do.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
9 Please lay the bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1154, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3125, an
12 act to allow Michael Acito to receive credit in
13 the New York State and local employees'
14 retirement system.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Lay the bill aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1156, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3725A, an
20 act to amend the General Business Law, in
21 relation to prize award schemes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Please read the last section.
8190
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 The bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1157, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3940, an
11 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
12 penalties for unauthorized disclosure of
13 information.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Please read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the first day of
18 November.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 Call the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8191
1 The bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1158, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3976, an
4 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
5 dismissal payments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Please read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
9 act shall take effect on the first day of
10 January.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 The bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1159, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4230,
19 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and
20 Rules, in relation to the confidentiality of
21 certain privileged information.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Please read the last section.
8192
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 The bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1160, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4245,
11 an act authorizing the assessor of the county of
12 Nassau to accept an application for exemption.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Lay the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1161, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4294,
18 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
19 relation to establishing the town of Huntington
20 Industrial Development Agency.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Lay the bill aside.
8193
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1162, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4387, an
3 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
4 Nassau to accept an application for exemption
5 from real property taxes.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Lay the bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1163, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4514, an
11 act to amend Chapter 972 of the Laws of 1962,
12 relating to the Shelter Rock Public Library.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Lay the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1164, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4518, an
18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
19 preliminary and final revocation hearings.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Please read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
8194
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 Call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
6 The bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1165, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4553, an act
9 to amend the Court of Claims act.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Lay the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1166, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4908, an
15 act to amend -
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Lay the bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1167, by Senator Velella.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Lay the bill aside.
8195
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1168, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4991, an
3 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
4 relation to authorizing certain entities to make
5 purchases.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Please read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 Call the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 The bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1169, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5000.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 Lay the bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1171, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5043, an
23 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
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1 Nassau to accept an application for exemption
2 from real property taxes.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Lay the bill aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1172, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an
8 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
9 accessible polling places.
10 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Lay the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1173, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 5164.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
16 the day.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Lay the bill aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1174, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5201, an
21 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
22 relation to loan insurance.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8197
1 Please read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
9 The bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1175, by Member of the Assembly DiNapoli,
12 substituted earlier today, Assembly Print 4065,
13 an act to amend the Public Service Law, in
14 relation to revenues earned by Water-Works
15 Corporation.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Please read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Please call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8198
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 The bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1177, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2807, an
5 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
6 the reporting of school safety inspections.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Please read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
10 act shall take effect on the first day of
11 January.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 Please call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 The bill is passed.
18 Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
20 At this time, if we could return to reports of
21 standing committees, I believe there is a report
22 from the Judiciary Committee.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8199
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
3 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
4 following nominations:
5 Margaret Garvey of Pearl River as
6 Judge of Rockland County Family Court.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Senator Lack.
9 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 I rise to move the nomination of
12 Margaret Garvey of Pearl River as Judge of the
13 Rockland Family Court, and would recognize for
14 purposes of seconding, if you would, Mr.
15 President, Senator Joseph Holland.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Senator Holland.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Thank you,
19 Senator Lack. Thank you, Mr. President.
20 It really is my pleasure this
21 morning to second the nomination of Margaret
22 Garvey.
23 Margaret has been active in
8200
1 Rockland County for many, many years. Margaret
2 is a very hard campaigner, very hard worker.
3 She and her husband Greg Carney are here.
4 Margaret was the first elected
5 Town Clerk in the county of Rockland. She will
6 be the first female Family Court Judge in the
7 county of Rockland. She is leading the way as a
8 female in the judiciary in Rockland County.
9 As I said, she's a very hard
10 worker. She knows town law. She knows county
11 law. She has been teaching at local colleges
12 and universities. She has been an advisor to
13 the Town Youth Court. She has worked for
14 everyone who has asked in the county of
15 Rockland.
16 I congratulate her for being our
17 new Family Court Judge in the county of
18 Rockland. I know it is one of the most
19 difficult jobs there is to do in the judiciary.
20 I know that she will do an excellent job.
21 It is my pleasure to second the
22 nomination of Margaret Garvey.
23 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President.
8201
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 Senator Lack.
3 SENATOR LACK: Yes. Mr.
4 President, Judge Garvey has been interviewed by
5 my staff and has appeared before the Judiciary
6 Committee. She has been moved by the
7 committee. She has been nominated by the
8 Governor.
9 I would at this time move the
10 nomination and ask for confirmation by the
11 Senate.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 The question is on the confirmation of Margaret
14 Garvey as Judge of the Rockland County Family
15 Court.
16 All those in favor, signify by
17 saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed, nay.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Margaret Garvey is hereby
22 confirmed as Judge of the Rockland County Family
23 Court.
8202
1 (Applause.)
2 Senator Lack.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
4 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
5 following nomination: Rose LaMendola of Amherst
6 as Judge of Erie County Supreme Court.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Senator Lack.
9 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 Judge LaMendola, who is currently
12 on the County Court in Erie, has appeared before
13 the committee, has been interviewed by my staff,
14 has been nominated by the Governor. Her
15 credentials have been found sound, and I would
16 ask that you recognize Senator Volker for
17 purposes of seconding the nomination.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 Senator Volker.
20 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
21 I'm very proud today to rise to second the
22 nomination of Rose LaMendola.
23 I have said it here on a number
8203
1 of occasions. Obviously, many of the people we
2 have confirmed from Erie County are people who,
3 over the years, I have known; but probably there
4 are few that I have known any better than Rose
5 LaMendola, who is not only a personal friend and
6 also her family but who I have campaigned with,
7 and I was saying in the Judiciary Committee that
8 I have never heard anyone say anything unkind
9 about Rose, except a couple of defense attorneys
10 who complained a little bit that Rose, who has a
11 reputation for being a tough but fair judge,
12 sent their clients to jail. Of course, they
13 then quickly admitted their clients probably
14 deserved to go to jail, anyways.
15 But, I think, as most of you
16 probably know, the County Court judges in
17 upstate New York are the judges who handle the
18 criminal cases and primarily -- although they
19 also handle civil cases but primarily criminal
20 cases, and she has been one of the stalwarts on
21 the court for many, many years and, in fact, is
22 a senior judge.
23 As I said before, I have
8204
1 campaigned with her and I have been with her on
2 many social events. She is an integral part of
3 the community in Western New York. I have
4 absolutely no question that she will make an
5 excellent Supreme Court judge, and I want to
6 compliment the Governor not only for Rose but
7 for the quality of the other people who also are
8 to be confirmed here today because I think all
9 of them are highly qualified, but I guess I
10 would say that I firmly believe that Rose
11 LaMendola probably is as good an appointment as
12 the Governor will make during this session.
13 I congratulate you, Rose, and I
14 wish you the very best of luck.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Senator Rath.
17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 I would like to add my
20 congratulations to Judge LaMendola. I have
21 known Rose for -- well, as long as I have been
22 involved in Erie County politics, which is
23 equally as long as Rose has been involved. Our
8205
1 paths have crossed hundreds and hundreds of
2 times.
3 I would echo what we heard
4 Senator Volker say and, of course, the Judiciary
5 Committee's recommendation.
6 But let me take this one step
7 farther. Rose's involvement in the community is
8 as long and as broad and as wide as anyone that
9 we have talked about here this year. But Rose
10 didn't stop her involvement in the community
11 when she went to the judiciary. Every
12 organization and group that she can participate
13 in, she does participate in.
14 She has her humanity, her wisdom,
15 and her long experience.
16 So, Rose, good luck. You will
17 not have forgotten the community that sent you
18 there. You will never forget all the people
19 that have been involved with you, and we are
20 delighted in Western New York to have you added
21 to the Supreme Court bench.
22 Congratulations, Rose.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8206
1 Senator Maziarz.
2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 Although I'm not personally
5 acquainted with Judge LaMendola, I have followed
6 the judiciary in Western New York. I am very
7 familiar with her career and her service on the
8 bench. I talked to some of the City Court
9 judges in Niagara County just last night, and
10 they have nothing but the highest regard for
11 Judge LaMendola, and I proudly rise in seconding
12 her nomination, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 The question is on -
15 Senator Dollinger. I'm sorry.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
17 President, I don't know Judge LaMendola, and I
18 met her this morning with Senator Volker, and I
19 really went to just tell her I think it was a
20 marvelous thing that in 1975, which was a
21 difficult year for the Republican Party, a woman
22 had run for the County Court in Erie County and
23 had successfully won the seat. I thought that
8207
1 was a tremendous political thing to do; and, lo
2 and behold, she proceeded to tell me that one of
3 the reasons why she was successful in that race
4 was because she had also gotten the Democratic
5 nomination; and she, in succeeding years, when
6 she had run for the office again, had been
7 cross-endorsed or had obtained the Democratic
8 nomination.
9 One of the things we oftentimes
10 talk about in this chamber is bipartisan
11 justice. Judge LaMendola, who has a long career
12 in Erie County described by others who know her
13 better, but we will get bipartisan justice in
14 this nominee, and she said -- I think she said
15 in the Judiciary Committee this would be a way
16 to cap a career. I look at this as a way to
17 continue what has already been a very bright and
18 skillful judicial career.
19 Judge LaMendola, I wish you the
20 best, and I think you embody the best in our
21 bipartisan justice system.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 The question is on the confirmation of Rose
8208
1 LaMendola as Judge of the Erie County Supreme
2 Court.
3 All those in favor, signify by
4 saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Rose LaMendola is hereby
9 confirmed as Judge of the Erie County Supreme
10 Court.
11 Congratulations.
12 (Applause.)
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
15 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
16 following nomination: John McGuirk of
17 Cornwall-on-Hudson as Judge of the Orange County
18 Family Court.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 Senator Lack.
21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
22 President.
23 I proudly rise to move the
8209
1 nomination of John McGuirk of Cornwall-on-Hudson
2 as Judge of the Orange County Family Court.
3 Judge McGuirk has also been
4 examined by staff of the committee. He has
5 appeared before the committee and has been found
6 more than satisfactory in all respects, and I
7 would yield to Senator Larkin, if you would, Mr.
8 President, with respect to seconding this
9 nomination.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 Senator Larkin.
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
13 it's my privilege to rise and second the
14 nomination of John McGuirk for Family Court
15 Judge in Orange County. In a way, this will be
16 a homecoming for Judge McGuirk because he cut
17 his teeth on the bar in Orange County as law
18 secretary for the late Judge Paul Murphy, and
19 anyone who's ever known Paul Murphy in the
20 judicial system knows that he was a taskmaster
21 and he made you earn your stripes.
22 Judge McGuirk has been known in
23 our county, in his 18 years as a town judge, as
8210
1 an individual experienced, compassionate,
2 understanding, and with total knowledge of the
3 law. He's been involved in every aspect of our
4 community.
5 He's the father of five children,
6 very proud to have his daughter Mary here with
7 him today, who I have known since childhood.
8 John McGuirk has always been
9 there in the community. People seek him out in
10 his private practice because of his willingness
11 to understand and talk to people.
12 John, not being a lawyer, I stand
13 here in front of you saying that we have made a
14 choice, the screening committee, our committee
15 at home, to put someone on the bench that truly
16 understands because Family Court, as we know
17 today and as some of the people were talking
18 about in the screening, it's a tough committee.
19 It's a committee with a lot of problems. That
20 court isn't something that comes and goes. It
21 carries on, family troubles; and with society as
22 it is today, we need a judge on that court who
23 is truly totally committed. In John McGuirk, we
8211
1 have that individual.
2 I move the nomination.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Holland.
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I rise to
6 second the nomination of Judge McGuirk. I
7 haven't known Judge McGuirk very long, but I
8 knew him by reputation, and I know he has sat as
9 a town justice of Cornwall for 18 years, as
10 Senator Larkin says.
11 So I just wanted to wish you good
12 luck. I know the people of Orange County
13 respect you and you will do a great job on the
14 Family Court.
15 It's my privilege to second the
16 nomination.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 The question is on the confirmation of John
19 McGuirk as Judge of the Family Court in Orange
20 County.
21 All those in favor, signify by
22 saying aye.
23 (Response of "Aye.")
8212
1 Opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 John McGuirk is hereby confirmed
4 as Judge of the Orange County Family Court.
5 Congratulations.
6 (Applause.)
7 The Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
9 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
10 following nomination: Joseph N. Giamboi of the
11 Bronx as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx
12 County.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Senator Lack.
15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 I rise once again to move the
18 nomination of Joseph N. Giamboi of the Bronx as
19 Justice of the Supreme Court of Bronx County.
20 He also has been examined by
21 counsels and staff to the Senate Judiciary
22 Committee, has appeared before the Judiciary
23 Committee which has unanimously voted moving his
8213
1 nomination to the floor, and I would, please,
2 Mr. President, yield to Senator Velella to
3 second such nomination.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Velella.
6 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, Mr.
7 President.
8 I would like to welcome everyone
9 to Bronx Day in the Senate today. We are going
10 to be confirming, with the concurrence of the
11 body, two Supreme Court judges who are actual
12 residents of Bronx County and the two that we
13 have confirmed previously who were educated in
14 Bronx County. So, certainly, today is Bronx
15 Day; and, hopefully tomorrow we will be doing an
16 additional judge who couldn't make it up here
17 today for the confirmation and the hearing, who
18 will also be coming before us for a Supreme
19 Court nomination in Bronx County.
20 I'm particularly pleased to rise
21 and support the nomination of Joseph Giamboi,
22 who has been admitted to the bar since 1955. He
23 has tried cases in almost all of the major
8214
1 courts in the state. He has appeared before the
2 Appellate Division and the Court of Appeals. He
3 has tried federal cases in California and
4 throughout the country.
5 He is truly a shining star
6 amongst the practicing bar in Bronx County. He
7 has worked very closely with this Legislature
8 over the years, having served on committees with
9 a number of Senators. He has worked for me and
10 my staff, and we will be missing him as he
11 assumes his duties with the judiciary.
12 Certainly, I can say that Joe
13 Giamboi -- the highest compliment I can pay to
14 him is that he is a lawyer's lawyer. He is
15 someone that I have entrusted with the duties
16 and obligations of representing me in court, and
17 a number of other attorneys in Bronx County have
18 relied on his expertise.
19 I believe he will be a valuable
20 asset to the Court, and I proudly second the
21 nomination of Joseph N. Giamboi for Justice of
22 the Supreme Court.
23 I might add that in the gallery
8215
1 with him are his two sons, Joseph and Robert,
2 and his nephew Robert, who is also here today.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Mendez.
6 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President.
7 I rise to also second the nomination of Kenneth
8 Thompson from the Bronx as Justice -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 Excuse me, Senator.
11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Joe Giamboi.
12 Yes, but I -- excuse -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Yes?
15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I
16 rise to second the nomination of Judge Joseph
17 Giamboi. Soon we will be taking up the
18 nomination of Kenneth Thompson.
19 But, most of all, what I really
20 want to express is my admiration to Governor
21 Pataki for, in this instance, choosing five very
22 highly qualified individuals to serve on the
23 bench and the mixture of the people that he has
8216
1 selected. He has selected two women, an
2 African-American, an Italo-American, and I know
3 that he will eventually also choose a Puerto
4 Rican from the Bronx.
5 So, Mr. President, we Puerto
6 Ricans from the Bronx are very fortunate to
7 have, for the first time, an Assemblyman who has
8 become the County Leader. I am referring to
9 Assemblyman Ramirez, here with us, and he
10 believes in diversity. So we are most grateful
11 for the choices that Governor Pataki has
12 presented to us.
13 Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 The question is on the confirmation of Joseph N.
16 Giamboi as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx
17 County.
18 All those in favor, signify by
19 saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (There was no response.)
23 Joseph N. Giamboi is hereby
8217
1 confirmed as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx
2 County.
3 Congratulations.
4 (Applause.)
5 Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
7 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
8 following nomination: Kenneth L. Thompson of
9 the Bronx as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx
10 County.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Senator Lack.
13 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 I rise to move the nomination of
16 Kenneth L. Thompson of the Bronx as Justice of
17 the Supreme Court of Bronx County.
18 Judge Thompson has also been
19 examined by committee staff and counsel, has
20 appeared before the committee, and has been
21 unanimously recommended to the floor of the
22 Senate for confirmation, and, once again, since
23 it's Bronx Day here in the Senate, I yield to
8218
1 Senator Velella.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Senator Velella.
4 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you,
5 Senator Lack.
6 Let me say that what Senator
7 Mendez said on the prior nomination certainly
8 holds true for this nomination and the
9 nomination that we will be, hopefully, seeing
10 tomorrow. It reflects the Governor's
11 outreaching to the community. It reflects his
12 desire not only to appoint qualified people but
13 do it in a bipartisan manner and to do it to
14 reflect the communities which are to be
15 represented in Bronx County.
16 We're fortunate in having three
17 people that will be coming before us that
18 basically represent the major populations of
19 Bronx County, an African-American, a Hispanic
20 American and an Italian-American, which
21 basically is the composition of the Bronx.
22 Let me say that the Governor is
23 to be complimented -- and I'm glad that Senator
8219
1 Mendez pointed that out -- to reflect the
2 bipartisan and the multi-ethnic complexities of
3 the Bronx.
4 In picking Judge Thompson, he has
5 chosen someone who is a sitting jurist. He is
6 highly respected in the court system. His
7 background has been consistently within the
8 court system. He worked as an opinion clerk, a
9 law secretary, a hearing officer in Bronx County
10 and has served as a designated Acting Supreme
11 Court Justice. He's been doing the job. He
12 will now, hopefully, with your concurrence, have
13 the title.
14 He has an excellent reputation
15 amongst the members of the bar. He is certainly
16 fair and certainly a tough judge, but you
17 couldn't ask for a better one in Bronx County.
18 He is joined here today by his
19 wife, a medical doctor, Brenda Thompson, who
20 will be speaking to everyone in the chamber
21 about managed care immediately after the
22 confirmation.
23 (Laughter.)
8220
1 It is, indeed, an honor to move
2 the nomination of Kenneth Thompson for Justice
3 of the Supreme Court.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Espada.
6 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President.
7 As has been noted, a judiciary that is truly
8 representative is a judiciary that can truly
9 dispense justice and live up to and perhaps
10 enhance the highest standards of our justice
11 system.
12 Kenneth L. Thompson certainly
13 will do that. He has the requisite temperament,
14 qualifications, and experience to carry forth
15 that challenge.
16 It is also very hopeful here,
17 from this Bronx Senator, that we can recruit his
18 beautiful wife, Brenda, to the medical field in
19 the Bronx, as well.
20 I must salute the Governor. I
21 salute Senator Velella and salute our County
22 Leader, Assemblyman Ramirez, for their exercise
23 in good judgment and their work in this effort
8221
1 as well.
2 Thank you very much.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Paterson.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
6 President. And as Senator Espada just
7 articulated, that the Governor and, certainly,
8 Senator Velella and Assemblyman Ramirez, all
9 those who have come together and lent their
10 names to support this really terrific candidate,
11 should congratulate themselves today. They have
12 selected a person of distinction, a person who
13 everywhere he has served he has flourished, and
14 it is always good to know that the individual
15 who accedes to great success based on a great
16 ability and also a plethora of achievements is a
17 decent human being, someone who has a great deal
18 of personal principle and applies it not only to
19 his profession but to his everyday life. That's
20 what people are looking for in judges. That's
21 what people are seeking in our judicial system,
22 and it is a reflection of the community at the
23 same time as a distinction among the -- by the
8222
1 individual who has arisen to this level.
2 And so, I'm very happy to see
3 Judge Thompson here, and his wife. I'm very
4 happy to be a part of seconding this nomination.
5 I just wonder, Senator Velella,
6 since it's Bronx Day, I guess we won't have any
7 Bronx cheers.
8 (Laughter.)
9 But I really think that this is
10 an excellent job that you and the committee have
11 done.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 The question is on the confirmation of Kenneth
14 L. Thompson as Justice of the Supreme Court,
15 Bronx County.
16 All those in favor, signify by
17 saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed, nay.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Kenneth L. Thompson is hereby
22 confirmed as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx
23 County.
8223
1 Congratulations.
2 (Applause.)
3 Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 At this time, if we could return to messages
6 from the Assembly.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly
10 returned Senate Bill Number 1553A, Assembly
11 Reprint 30004 entitled, "An act making
12 appropriations for the support of government and
13 to amend Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1995,"
14 enacting the State Operations Budget, Aid to
15 Localities.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
19 move that the Senate not concur in said
20 amendments and move to reconsider the vote by
21 which this bill was passed.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 The Secretary will call the roll on
8224
1 reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
6 The bill is before the house.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe the
9 bill is restored to the place of Third Reading
10 Calendar, and, Mr. President, I now offer the
11 following amendments.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 The amendments are received and adopted.
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 at this time, if we could take up the
17 controversial calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: On page 14,
21 Calendar Number 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate
22 Print 3735, an act to amend the General
23 Municipal Law, in relation to creating the town
8225
1 of Southampton Industrial Development Agency.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 There is a home rule message at the desk.
4 Explanation.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: May we lay
9 this aside for just a moment? Senator Leichter
10 is out of the chamber. He would like to ask a
11 few questions of Senator LaValle.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Certainly, Mr.
13 President, if Senator LaValle has no objection
14 at this time, but I would urge the members as
15 we're trying to work our way through the various
16 Rules Committee reports and complete this budget
17 that, as the bills are called up, if they could
18 be in the chamber so we could proceed in an
19 orderly fashion.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 The bill will be laid aside temporarily.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: I think the
23 Acting Majority Leader's point is well-taken.
8226
1 Those who would like to ask questions on bills,
2 the members who are moving the bills are here.
3 We would appreciate it if they would come to the
4 chamber and ask their questions.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
6 Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an
9 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
10 relation to directing the Triborough Bridge and
11 Tunnel Authority to establish a system of one
12 directional toll collection.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
14 SENATOR MARCHI: Lay that bill
15 aside temporarily.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Lay that bill aside temporarily.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 994, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5019, an
20 act to amend the Real Property Actions and
21 Proceedings Law, in relation to landlord and
22 tenant proceedings.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8227
1 Lay the bill aside temporarily.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an
4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
5 relation to special relief in matrimonial
6 actions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
10 this is the only bill that I will be making this
11 request. May we lay this bill aside for the
12 day? Senator Solomon is particularly interested
13 in this bill. He would like very much to
14 discuss it, and he will not be here today.
15 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I
16 will lay the bill aside with the following
17 understanding, Senator Paterson. I believe
18 Senator Solomon spoke with my counsel. I
19 believe my counsel may have addressed the
20 questions that he raised regarding this bill. I
21 will try to get confirmation of that and will
22 advise the Acting Minority Leader to that effect
23 if we have; and if we can accomplish that, I
8228
1 would like to be able to return to this bill if
2 we return to this calendar during the course of
3 the day.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 All right. The bill will be laid aside
6 temporarily.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act
9 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
10 relation to permitting the discharge of a
11 firearm.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An
14 explanation has been requested. Lay the bill
15 aside temporarily.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1152, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2789, an
18 act restoring Emil G. Pavlik Jr. to Tier II
19 membership in the New York State and local
20 employees retirement system.
21 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Explanation requested.
8229
1 Senator Johnson.
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President.
3 It's a little local bill asked for by the
4 village of Amityville, who consent to have this
5 bill introduced and to provide their mayor to
6 continue as a Tier II member.
7 As you know, there is a five-year
8 limitation. If you are out of the pension five
9 years, you can't go back into it. He was out
10 five years and, I believe, seven months. The
11 village is agreeable to this. They are going to
12 put in their share of the money. The mayor is
13 going to pay his share. It is quite a
14 noncontroversial measure in my mind, and the
15 bill should be passed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Senator Stachowski.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator
19 Johnson would yield for a question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Senator Johnson, will you yield?
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator
8230
1 Johnson, I would imagine it is noncontroversial,
2 but we did do that big bill that was supposed to
3 handle all of these so that we wouldn't have to
4 have this process where we're dealing with
5 individual retirement pieces one at a time
6 again. That was supposed to be in the past, and
7 all of them were supposed to go through this new
8 process.
9 Can you tell us why this
10 particular person did not qualify under the bill
11 that we passed that was supposed to handle all
12 of the bills of this nature?
13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I think,
14 Senator, you and I know that chapter didn't work
15 out quite as we planned, and that process is
16 getting bogged down in various aspects. This is
17 one here which we didn't feel requires a hearing
18 process at all since it's agreeable, and part of
19 that chapter was to set up a process to evaluate
20 and decide on claims which may be contested.
21 There is no contesting by the municipality here;
22 therefore, it's appropriate to just proceed with
23 this bill.
8231
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And the
2 locality -- excuse me, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Stachowski.
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Again
6 through you, I'm sorry. Senator, if you would
7 yield again?
8 The locality has no trouble
9 putting up the money to cover this particular
10 person's piece, is that how this one is going to
11 work?
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: The village has
13 requested this bill be passed at this time.
14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Read the last section. Oh, excuse me.
17 There is a home rule message at
18 the desk.
19 Please read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Call the roll.
8232
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 The bill is passed.
5 Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1154, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3125, an
8 act to allow Michael Acito to receive credit in
9 the New York State and local employees
10 retirement system.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An
13 explanation has been requested.
14 Senator Marchi.
15 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President.
16 In 1988, the Court of Appeals decision of
17 Doctors Council versus New York City Employees
18 Retirement system held that part-time city
19 employees were eligible for membership in the
20 retirement system. Chapter 749 of the Laws of
21 1992 set forth the mechanism for employees with
22 present or part-time service to enter the
23 retirement system and/or receive credit for
8233
1 part-time service, but Chapter 749 did not,
2 however, correct the inequity that exists for
3 one -- one part-time employee who would have
4 entered the system at a higher tier if he had
5 been allowed entry as a part-timer. This
6 legislation rectifies this inequity. He is the
7 only one that's involved in this circumstance.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An
10 explanation has been given.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: That was a
12 very good explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Please read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 The bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8234
1 1160, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4245,
2 an act authorizing the assessor of the county of
3 Nassau to accept an application for the
4 exemption of specified real property owned by
5 the Chabad Lubavitch of Plainview,
6 Incorporated.
7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An
9 explanation has been requested.
10 Senator Marcellino.
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
12 President. This bill would authorize the
13 assessor of the county of Nassau to accept an
14 application for exemption for real property
15 taxes pursuant to Section 420A of the Real
16 Property Tax Law for certain property owned by
17 the Chabad Lubavitch of Plainview.
18 Apparently this property was
19 purchased by the Chabad, which is a legitimate
20 not-for-profit organization residing in
21 Plainview and well-known for their community
22 activities and their community service,
23 subsequent to the date when this particular
8235
1 piece of property would have counted. It has
2 been subsequently, in 1995, granted property tax
3 exemption.
4 The county feels that they need
5 something from the state before they can go back
6 retroactively and give them the ability to file.
7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 Senator Stachowski.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator
12 Marcellino would yield for a couple of
13 questions?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Senator Marcellino, will you yield?
16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is it a
18 common practice in Nassau County that
19 not-for-profits get retroactive tax credit -
20 relief? Because, you know, normally if you
21 hadn't filed in time -- or you filed -- whenever
22 you filed, that's when you get the tax relief;
23 and if you hadn't done it immediately, well,
8236
1 that's just the way it goes.
2 So is this a normal practice or
3 is this an exceptional piece?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Marcellino.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know
7 if it's normal practice. I do know it's been
8 done in the past.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: One more
10 question.
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Certainly.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: A couple of
13 years ago, we had to do what's referred to as
14 somewhat -- as a deficit spending bill for
15 Nassau County, and we did one for Suffolk
16 County, too.
17 Can you tell me if we're going to
18 continue to do these retroactive tax relief
19 pieces and if other not-for-profits see this and
20 want to start going back historically into some
21 period that maybe they didn't get covered for,
22 can we look forward to maybe doing another
23 deficit spending piece for Nassau County?
8237
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 Senator Marcellino.
3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I truly do
4 not think this one will do that, nor do I think
5 you will see a rush of other not-for-profits
6 entering into this field, Senator.
7 This organization with this
8 particular piece, I think, is a worthy
9 organization. They are well known in my
10 community and in my district and, I believe,
11 well deserve to have the opportunity to apply.
12 The county will have to make its decision after
13 that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Please read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 The bill is passed.
8238
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1161, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4294,
3 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
4 relation to establishing the town of Huntington
5 Industrial Development Agency.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Senator Marcellino.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This is my
10 lucky day, Senator.
11 Mr. President, this bill seeks to
12 amend the General Municipal Law by adding a new
13 section 907 (d), to establish the town of
14 Huntington, of Suffolk, Industrial Development
15 Agency in the county of Suffolk. It has been
16 introduced at the request of the Huntington Town
17 Board and represents an effort by the town to
18 provide for themselves effective economic
19 planning.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
23 if Senator Marcellino will yield for a couple of
8239
1 questions?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Senator Marcellino, will you yield?
4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: To Senator
5 Paterson? Any time.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, thank you,
7 thank you. The first one of them being, at
8 whose request has this bill been introduced,
9 Senator? We're just curious.
10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: At whose
11 request?
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Town of
14 Huntington, Senator.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Did the town
16 of Huntington -- if the Senator will continue to
17 yield?
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Absolutely.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: -- previously
20 operate an IDA?
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't
22 believe so, Senator.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: All right.
8240
1 Thank you very much, Senator.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 There's a home rule -
4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
5 President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 I'm sorry. Senator Stachowski.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the
9 Senator continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I don't know
12 what the situation is in your area but in my
13 area what happens when all these various towns
14 get their own individual IDAs, we then find
15 ourselves in a situation where companies will
16 then -- after their tax exempt status in one
17 particular industrial park, for example,
18 expires, they will then say, "I'm going to leave
19 the locality." You know, they say, "I'm sorry
20 all these jobs are going to go," and then a
21 different IDA will scramble and put together a
22 package to keep them in the area, to move them
23 over maybe one town or two towns. They'll get
8241
1 another eight to ten years of tax-free status,
2 and then the same process continues, and thus -
3 thus being that they're continually getting
4 large packages of aid from government agencies
5 and paying no taxes in return, and I'm not quite
6 sure if that's a trade-off for the number of
7 jobs.
8 Is that the case out your way?
9 And maybe we're just doing another IDA so that
10 Huntington is armed to compete with the other
11 towns in the area; or is this just a situation
12 that happens to occur in Erie County and all the
13 towns around in that area of Nassau County don't
14 have IDAs so that's not a problem?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Senator Marcellino.
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, the
18 towns that I represent, Senator, operate on very
19 high ethical and moral values, would never,
20 never engage in -- I'm being facetious. No, I
21 don't foresee that as a situation, Senator, but
22 I do recognize that could happen and certainly
23 should not happen.
8242
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: One last
2 question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Marcellino.
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: For a few
6 years here, what was going on is that, if a town
7 had an IDA, well, that was all right, but we're
8 trying to limit the number of new IDAs just for
9 that reason, so that we wouldn't have all these
10 individual IDAs in the same general area
11 competing against each other to put together
12 better packages and maybe draw businesses from
13 each other rather than from outside; and so they
14 were trying to do like countywide, and if you
15 were -- and, obviously, in the case of a town,
16 if you already had it, they left it.
17 Do you think that this will be
18 the start of many more IDAs to follow not only
19 in the state but in your area in particular, or
20 is this like an individual, isolated piece that
21 Huntington will have, and you don't foresee a
22 whole lot of other towns, particularly maybe in
23 your own district, coming up with new IDA
8243
1 applications?
2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator -
3 Senator, a lot of the towns within my district
4 already have their own IDAs, and I do see some
5 of the problems that you might be pointing out
6 to me, and I would be willing to sit down with
7 you and your staff. I offer this in all
8 sincerity, perhaps work out some kind of
9 legislation that might stop just that kind of
10 problem from occurring.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 There is a home rule message at the desk.
14 Please read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 The bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8244
1 1162, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4387, an
2 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
3 Nassau to accept an application for exemption
4 from real property taxes.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Senator Tully.
8 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 This bill would authorize and
11 direct the county of Nassau to accept an
12 application for real property tax exemption on
13 property owned by Temple Beth Shalom.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Senator Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
17 Senator Tully.
18 If Senator Tully would yield for
19 a question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Will you yield, Senator Tully?
22 SENATOR TULLY: I do, Mr.
23 President.
8245
1 SENATOR PATERSON: I am assuming,
2 and I just want to know whether or not I'm
3 right, Senator, that the Temple Beth Shalom must
4 have submitted their application past the
5 deadline, and it was by a short period of time
6 so it was regarded as ministerial, and we're
7 just putting it into legislation to act on it in
8 a legal fiction as it were before. Am I not
9 correct?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 Senator Tully.
12 SENATOR TULLY: That is correct,
13 Mr. President.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Then, Senator,
15 I don't really have a big problem doing that,
16 and I'm sure none of the members would, but my
17 question to you is, do you think that this might
18 open the door for what would, in a sense, be
19 just a noncompliance with the deadlines that are
20 often set for these types of procedures?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 Senator Tully?
23 SENATOR TULLY: No, I do not, Mr.
8246
1 President.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 if Senator Tully would continue to yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
5 Senator Tully.
6 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I will, Mr.
7 President.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, was
9 there a particular reason why the application
10 was late that compelled us to pass this
11 legislation? I mean I just want to make sure
12 that the temple is not in a set of one, and
13 there were other late applications and we're not
14 addressing them, as well.
15 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
16 President. This is the Rabbi's residence, and
17 it was an oversight.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, Mr.
19 President. I have made oversights on my
20 residence, and I think we can move the bill at
21 this time.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Please read the last section.
8247
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 The bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1163, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4514, an
11 act to amend Chapter 972 of the Laws of 1962,
12 relating to the Shelter Rock Public Library.
13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Senator Tully.
17 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
18 President. This is a bill to amend Chapter 972
19 of the Laws of 1962, the Shelter Rock Public
20 Library Act, which would enable the members of
21 the Shelter Rock Public Library Board to make
22 interim appointments in the event a vacancy
23 occurs due to death or resignation. Under the
8248
1 current law, the Governor has the power to make
2 these appointments.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Please read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 The bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1165, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4553, an act
15 to amend the Court of Claims Act, in relation to
16 the abolition of the requirement to file notices
17 of intention.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 Please read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Call the roll.
8249
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 The bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1166, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4908, an
7 act to authorize and direct the county of
8 Nassau, town of North Hempstead, village of
9 Westbury and Westbury Central School District,
10 to refund certain taxes.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 Senator Tully.
14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 This is a bill to reimburse the
17 Greater New York Corporation of Seventh Day
18 Adventists the portion of real property taxes
19 erroneously billed and paid to the taxing
20 authorities of the county of Nassau, town of
21 North Hempstead, village of Westbury, and the
22 Westbury Central School District.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8250
1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 if Senator Tully would be willing to yield for a
4 question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
6 Senator Tully, will you yield?
7 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
8 President.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: I am assuming
10 in this case that it's an overpayment.
11 SENATOR TULLY: That's correct,
12 Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Senator Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: And so I guess
16 we're paying them back.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator
19 Tully would yield for one more question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Senator Tully, will you yield?
22 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
8251
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is this the
2 case if any tax-exempt group would pay taxes to
3 the school district? Why is it that they can't
4 just refund the money on their own? Why do we
5 have to pass the legislation?
6 SENATOR TULLY: That's the
7 requirement in the law, Mr. President.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Couldn't
9 we -- excuse me, one more question?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 Senator Tully, will you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator,
15 don't you think it would be advisable that we
16 look into maybe drafting legislation that would
17 handle this so that school districts would be
18 able on their own to just refund money that was
19 accidentally paid or by mistake paid by these
20 groups that are tax-exempt so that we wouldn't
21 have to come back? Say that this is isolated
22 this year, but other years we would keep coming
23 back with situations like this where we're going
8252
1 to have to pass a bill just to get a refund for
2 a legitimate group that deserves the refund.
3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 My colleague from Erie County is
6 not only an excellent ball player but he's also
7 a very astute individual when it comes to
8 understanding law and proposals. I think that's
9 a very cogent suggestion and one that should be
10 looked into.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Please read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
16 Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 The bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1167, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4969, an
23 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
8253
1 eliminating certain criteria for multi-tiering
2 program.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Lay the bill aside temporarily.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1169, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5000, an
7 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
8 relation to the Saratoga County Water Authority.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
10 There is a home rule message at the desk.
11 Please read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
15 Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 The bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1171, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5043, an
22 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
23 Nassau to accept an application for exemption
8254
1 from real property taxes.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 Senator Tully.
5 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
6 President. This is a bill to authorize and
7 direct the county of Nassau to accept an
8 application for real property tax exemption from
9 the tax-exempt organization, the Congregational
10 Church of Manhasset.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
14 President. If I might ask Senator Tully a
15 question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Senator Tully, will you yield?
18 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
19 President.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully,
21 I assume that this is another late application
22 that again is being regarded as ministerial, and
23 this is the reason that we are now regarding
8255
1 this as if it happened before.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
3 Senator Tully.
4 SENATOR TULLY: That is an
5 accurate assumption, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
9 if Senator Tully would continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
11 Will you continue to yield, Senator Tully?
12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully,
15 again, I just want to ask you -- before, you
16 said you didn't think that it was significantly
17 late or you didn't think it would affect anyone
18 else. What do you think the total effect is of
19 using the legislative process to correct these
20 circumstances rather than having some local
21 agency do it?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Senator Tully.
8256
1 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President,
2 the thrust of that question is the same as the
3 question that was asked previously by Senator
4 Stachowski. I think the concept of probably
5 avoiding these individual applications and
6 having one collective method of handling it in
7 the Legislature would be a very, very fine
8 thing. If, in the alternative, there was a
9 method of doing it on a local basis and the
10 state law was changed to allow that, I think
11 that also would be beneficial, because I do
12 sincerely believe that there are many more
13 significant things that we in the Legislature
14 have to do that we can accomplish, like the
15 budget. We wouldn't be so many days late if
16 there were less situations of this sort, and I
17 think if the intention of Senator Paterson is to
18 suggest some type of legislation that would
19 preclude these applications in the future, I
20 think he and Senator Stachowski should be
21 commended, and I hope the cooperative spirit on
22 both sides of this house would effectuate
23 something in that nature.
8257
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 Senator Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, thank
4 you, Senator Tully, for that fine explanation,
5 and, on the bill, Senator Stachowski and I are
6 collaborating on that legislation right now,
7 that we will be bringing it to committee very
8 shortly, and we'd like to thank the Senator who
9 represents the villages of Westbury and
10 Manhasset and the town of North Hempstead and
11 all of the epicenters of the nature of these
12 bills. They are well represented.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
14 Please read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 The bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number
8258
1 1172, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an
2 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
3 accessible polling places.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
5 temporarily.
6 Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Lay the bill aside temporarily.
9 Senator Skelos.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Could you call
11 up Senator LaValle's bill, Calendar Number 563.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3735, an
16 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
17 relation to creating the town of Southampton
18 Industrial Development Agency.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
20 There is a home rule message at the desk.
21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An
23 explanation has been requested.
8259
1 Senator LaValle.
2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, Mr.
3 President. This legislation simply allows the
4 town of Southampton to establish a Southampton
5 Industrial Development Agency, and the former
6 supervisor of the town of Southampton, Fred
7 Thiele, is now a member of the Assembly; and,
8 certainly, as the supervisor, it was almost like
9 a dream to come to Albany and be able to file as
10 his first bill the creation of an Industrial
11 Development Agency for the town that he was the
12 supervisor of; and, certainly, Southampton Town
13 has learned that by being proactive, as they
14 have by attracting not only once but twice, at
15 Shinnecock Hills, the U.S. Open, that they could
16 use the tools that so many towns have done to
17 attract industry to their town.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
19 President. If Senator LaValle would yield for a
20 question?
21 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
23 LaValle, you said that the town of Southampton
8260
1 was being proactive in this. I guess this is
2 the second time, because there had previously
3 been an Industrial Development Agency; is that
4 not correct?
5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: What was the
7 reason for the extinction of the first attempt
8 to establish an IDA?
9 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, many
10 times a town, for whatever reason, lets the
11 agency lapse only to find that it must come back
12 to the Legislature to recreate and seek beyond
13 the period of time that we create the Industrial
14 Development Agency to go get a second crack at
15 the apple. Many of the towns simply do not
16 realize that their time has run out. It's
17 almost that simple.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator,
19 if the IDA is functioning, it wouldn't go out of
20 existence, and what you're saying is that the
21 town not having a need at that point let it
22 lapse.
23 Would there be a more effective
8261
1 way to establish some congruency where the
2 agency continues to be existing in name so that
3 when it wants to be regenerated we don't have to
4 come back to the Legislature and do another
5 bill?
6 SENATOR LAVALLE: I don't know,
7 Senator. All I know is that the bill before us
8 is a local bill for a town that is seeking the
9 recreation of its Industrial Development Agency
10 and, as I've said, there are a variety of
11 reasons why a town may feel it needs the
12 Industrial Development Agency. It might not
13 work out and in a period of time it lapses, and
14 then they come back to us for additional
15 authorization.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
17 Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
19 Senator LaValle.
20 Mr. President, on the bill. We
21 have no problem with the local town, the local
22 government setting its policy. In fact, we have
23 a lot of local bills from this conference that
8262
1 we're hoping we will move today. We're just
2 trying to point out, as Senator Tully did, that
3 at some point toward the end of the session and
4 particularly in this unfortunate circumstance
5 where we are in the midst of a budget process,
6 that there might be a better way, that this, in
7 some respects, obfuscates the process.
8 But if that is what actually
9 occurred and the town allowed the Industrial
10 Development Agency to lapse, then we certainly
11 would like to help the town of Southampton. As
12 Senator LaValle pointed out, the U.S. Open has
13 actually been brought to that area twice at
14 Shinnecock, and we certainly wish them well.
15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
18 Senator Stachowski.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator
20 LaValle would yield to a question or two?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
22 Senator LaValle, will you yield?
23 SENATOR LAVALLE: Sure.
8263
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator,
2 doesn't the county that this town finds itself
3 located in, don't they have an IDA?
4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, that's
5 correct.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And if
7 Senator would continue to yield. Wouldn't that
8 IDA be responsible for doing projects in that
9 particular town at the town's request?
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: It could.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: So could we
12 assume, then, that the reason the town is asking
13 for the reestablishment of its IDA is because
14 maybe they feel they are not getting fair
15 treatment in the projects they're trying to
16 attract by that county's IDA currently?
17 SENATOR LAVALLE: No, Senator.
18 What happens, many times, is that the counties
19 use their IDA for larger projects. I don't know
20 what the threshold amount is for projects that
21 the Suffolk County IDA would consider, and so
22 many of the towns choose to have their own IDAs
23 because they can move more quickly and they
8264
1 don't have to meet a threshold level; and the
2 project may be a $100,000, $200,000 project,
3 where Suffolk County may have a higher threshold
4 of 500,000, 600,000, a million dollars, so it is
5 important for the towns to have their own
6 Industrial Development Agencies.
7 And, quite honestly, one of the
8 things I know so many of us do when we campaign
9 and talk about mechanisms that New York State
10 has established to create industry and jobs is
11 the various tools and mechanisms, whether it's
12 the JDA, whether it's a county IDA or the local
13 town IDA, so we allow for a whole potpourri of
14 options that the locality can use in dealing
15 with businesses.
16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
17 President, if he would continue to yield. One
18 last question.
19 Can we assume then that the town
20 is going to use their IDA for smaller projects
21 and still continue to use the county IDA for
22 maybe somewhat larger projects?
23 SENATOR LAVALLE: I would guess
8265
1 that that's true, Senator Stachowski, and, as I
2 had indicated, Assemblyman Thiele, who was the
3 Supervisor of the town of Southampton, actually
4 brought this bill to me to sponsor, and I would
5 think that that is exactly the case that will
6 allow them to have smaller projects and still
7 use the county for the larger projects that come
8 to the town.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
10 On the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Senator Stachowski, on the bill.
13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I'd like to
14 thank Senator LaValle for his patience with the
15 questions and his fine answers, and it makes
16 perfect sense to me.
17 I was really asking the questions
18 to try to figure out why this particular local
19 bill and many of the others that we've done
20 today and a couple days before are so much more,
21 maybe, let's say, relevant and more important to
22 get out than any of the bills that were put in
23 by the people on this side of the aisle, because
8266
1 I noticed last night -- we had a rather
2 extensive Rules meeting, and we had one
3 Democratic bill and numerous Republican local
4 bills, and we're getting near the end of session
5 and I know that -- at least, to my knowledge,
6 there is a Rules Committee scheduled for this
7 afternoon or in a short time with, again, one
8 Democratic bill and numerous Republican local
9 bills.
10 And I'm just trying to establish
11 if there, in fact, is a rationale, a reason why
12 these bills are more important or why the
13 Democratic bills aren't being moved, and we're
14 trying to be as cooperative as possible in
15 asking a few questions and, so far, we haven't
16 had a problem with this, but I would add, if in
17 the very near future we don't see some movement
18 with some Democratic bills, seeing as we are
19 running out of time, that the process probably
20 could slow down even more, that there would be
21 more questions, that there might be some
22 difficulty with the bills. They would probably
23 require slow roll calls, and we don't want to
8267
1 see the process bog down like that.
2 We know that everybody is anxious
3 to have the calendar move as fast as possible,
4 and that we would be getting out bills as fast
5 as possible and that we would be able to close
6 down and get out all the bills necessary before
7 the end of session.
8 To my knowledge, the Majority
9 Leader is planning on following the calendar as
10 far as the end of session goes, and we wouldn't
11 want to be the reason for that goal not being
12 met by the house, or that people that have
13 various interests in various bills not have
14 their bill being dealt with because of our
15 anxiousness to reach that departure date on that
16 particular calendar as scheduled by the Majority
17 Leader.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
23 Call the roll.
8268
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
4 The bill is passed.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
7 Senator Saland has requested that Calendar 1111
8 be laid aside for the day at the request of the
9 Minority, and that the bill will be debated
10 tomorrow.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
12 Calendar 1111 will be laid aside for the day.
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. At this
15 time, if we can return to motions and
16 resolutions, I believe there is a resolution,
17 1497, which we adopted yesterday. If we could
18 have the resolution read in its entirety and
19 then recognize Senator Tully.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
21 Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully,
23 Legislative Resolution honoring the 1995
8269
1 Regional Nurses of Distinction upon the occasion
2 of the New York State Legislature's Nurse of
3 Distinction Day, June 7, 1995.
4 Whereas, The nurses of New York
5 have by dedicating their lives to the health and
6 dignity of their fellow New Yorkers contributed
7 significantly to the well-being of the citizens
8 of our state; and
9 Whereas, The New York State
10 Legislature developed the Nurse of Distinction
11 Award Program to pay tribute to New York State's
12 registered professional nurses for their
13 steadfast commitment and support of the health
14 and betterment of all New Yorkers; and
15 Whereas, The outstanding
16 achievements of thousands of our state's
17 registered professional nurses have been
18 acknowledged through the 1995 Nurse of
19 Distinction Award Program and 364 distinctive
20 nurses were nominated for the Award; and
21 Whereas, Eight Regional Nurses of
22 Distinction were selected by nursing peers from
23 throughout the state for their professional
8270
1 excellence and unequivocal dedication in support
2 of the health and betterment of their fellow New
3 Yorkers; now, therefore, be it
4 Resolved, That this Legislative
5 Body pause to express its deep respect and
6 appreciation to all of New York State's
7 distinguished nurses and to recognize the unique
8 contributions made by the eight 1995 Regional
9 Nurses of Distinction: Audrey Norris-Clancy,
10 Avis Rent A Car, Garden City; Karen Haghenbeck,
11 Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx; Kathleen L.
12 Capitulo, Long Island Jewish Medical Center, New
13 Hyde Park; Nancy Lichak, Good Samaritan
14 Hospital, Suffern; Elaine Massaro, Albany
15 Memorial Hospital, Albany; M. Suzanne Lavin,
16 Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center, Utica; Elaine
17 D. Caso, Arnot Ogden Medical Center, Elmira; and
18 Sharon S. Dittmar, University of Buffalo School
19 of Nursing, Buffalo; and be it further
20 Resolved, That this Legislative
21 Body pause in its deliberations to encourage
22 statewide recognition of those valued nursing
23 professionals serving our communities; and be it
8271
1 further
2 Resolved, That copies of this
3 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
4 to the eight 1995 New York State Legislature's
5 Regional Nurses of Distinction with our pride
6 and gratitude.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
8 Senator Tully.
9 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
10 President. Initially, I would ask that this
11 resolution be open for sponsorship to all of my
12 colleagues unless otherwise indicated.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
14 Without objection.
15 SENATOR TULLY: I'm pleased to
16 have this opportunity to introduce to you eight
17 special New Yorkers, eight nurses representing
18 the New York Legislature's Nurse of Distinction
19 Award Program.
20 The Nurse of Distinction Award
21 Program was developed by the Legislature in 1988
22 to honor the thousands of registered
23 professional nurses in New York State and to
8272
1 recognize the critical and important work that
2 they do.
3 I'm pleased to serve as
4 legislative coordinator of the Nurse of
5 Distinction and pleased also that 364 health
6 entities chose to join with the Legislature this
7 year to honor the members of their staffs by
8 nominating nurses for this recognition.
9 Nurses in our state are making
10 remarkable contributions and achieving
11 extraordinary results. Over the seven years of
12 the Nurse of Distinction Award Program, we have
13 honored more than 2,500 registered nurses
14 representing a variety of nursing functions and
15 a vast array of health-related facilities.
16 As we have come to know these
17 nurses of distinction, it has become apparent
18 that New York State is blessed with a vigorously
19 motivated, highly creative source of
20 compassionate nursing professionals.
21 Health care centers in our world
22 are world-renowned -- in our state, are world
23 renowned for their expertise, and our nurses
8273
1 have more than lived up to the challenge to
2 provide the patient services, the technical
3 specialties and the educational network in
4 support of them.
5 Concurrently, millions of school
6 children, clinical outpatients, community and
7 state facility clients, among others, are the
8 beneficiaries of energized, educated and
9 talented New York State nurses.
10 On the Senate calendar today is
11 the resolution that was just read acknowledging
12 the 364 nurses from throughout our state who are
13 being honored as this year's Nurses of
14 Distinction.
15 Eight have been chosen as
16 Regional Nurses of Distinction, and I would now
17 like to introduce them to you in recognition of
18 their own considerable accomplishments and as
19 representatives of our outstanding New York
20 State Professional Nurses:
21 From Long Island, an occupational
22 health nurse and manager of the Employees Health
23 Unit, Avis Rent-A-Car, Garden City, Audrey
8274
1 Norris-Clancy.
2 (Applause.)
3 Thank you, Audrey.
4 From Greater New York Region 1,
5 which includes Richmond, New York, and Bronx
6 Counties, a critical care nurse with the
7 Educational Services Division of Montefiore
8 Medical Center in the Bronx, Karen Haghenbeck.
9 (Applause.)
10 From the NorMet Region,
11 cardiology case manager in the Coronary Care
12 Unit at the Good Samaritan Hospital Regional
13 Medical Center in Suffern, Nancy Lichak.
14 (Applause.)
15 From the Northeastern Region,
16 manager of the Diabetes Treatment Center and
17 Telemetry Unit at Albany Memorial Hospital in
18 Albany, Elaine Massaro.
19 (Applause.)
20 From the Central Region, a
21 community mental health nurse who serves as the
22 facilitator of the mobile geriatric team at
23 Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center in Utica,
8275
1 Suzanne Lavin.
2 (Applause.)
3 From the Finger Lakes Region, an
4 instructor in medical-surgical nursing at Arnot
5 Ogden Medical Center School of Nursing in
6 Elmira, Elaine Caso.
7 (Applause.)
8 From the Western Region,
9 Associate Professor of Rehabilitation Nursing at
10 the University of Buffalo School of Nursing, in
11 Buffalo, Sharon Dittmar.
12 (Applause.)
13 Our New York State Nurse of
14 Distinction is annually chosen from among the
15 eight Regional Nurses of Distinction. I would
16 like to introduce to you now our eighth Regional
17 Nurse of Distinction who is also our 1995 New
18 York State Nurse of Distinction, the Assistant
19 Nursing Administrator in the Division of
20 Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Long Island
21 Jewish Medical Center in New Hyde Park, Kathleen
22 Capitulo.
23 (Applause.)
8276
1 Congratulations to each of you
2 and our deepest thanks for the excellent work
3 you're doing to enhance the quality of life for
4 our state's residents, and I know that Elaine
5 will be delighted to photograph each and every
6 one of my colleagues with their appropriate
7 representative at their leisure if they should
8 so desire.
9 Thank you again.
10 (Applause.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: This
12 resolution has been previously adopted, and on
13 behalf of the Senate we welcome you and
14 congratulations.
15 Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
17 There will be an immediate meeting of the
18 Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol
19 followed by a meeting of the Rules Committee in
20 the same room.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: There
22 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
23 Committee in Room 332 followed immediately
8277
1 thereafter by a meeting of the Rules Committee.
2 Senator Tully, why do you rise?
3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
4 President. With respect to those photographs
5 with the nurses of distinction, I understand
6 they will be going to Room 124 in the Capitol,
7 for any members that might have the time to go
8 down and congratulate them and who wish to have
9 a photograph taken.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Thank
12 you, Senator Tully.
13 Senator Skelos, we have a few
14 motions to take care of.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: May we return to
16 motions and resolutions.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
18 Senator Johnson.
19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr.
20 President. I move to amend Senate Bill 4469A by
21 striking out the amendments made on May 15 and
22 restoring it to its original print number, 4469.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
8278
1 Amendments received and adopted.
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: And another
3 one, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
5 Senator Johnson.
6 SENATOR JOHNSON: On behalf of
7 Senator Nozzolio, I wish to call up his bill,
8 Print Number 3202, recalled from the Assembly,
9 which is now at the desk.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 558, by
13 Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3202, an act to
14 amend the Town Law, in relation to providing for
15 the election of a third town justice.
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
17 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
18 bill was passed.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: The
20 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
21 (The Secretary called the roll on
22 reconsideration.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
8279
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO:
2 The bill is before the house.
3 Senator Johnson.
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
5 I now offer up the following amendments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
7 Amendments received and adopted.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
10 believe the objection of the Minority has been
11 removed on Calendar Number 1172, by Senator
12 Goodman.
13 (There was a pause in the
14 proceedings.)
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
16 If we could lay that bill aside temporarily and
17 call up Senator Kuhl's bill, Calendar Number
18 1040.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act
23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
8280
1 relation to permitting the discharge of a
2 firearm.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
5 Explanation has been asked for.
6 Senator Kuhl.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President,
8 this is a rather simple bill in its approach.
9 There currently is a prohibition about
10 discharging firearms within a certain distance
11 of school facilities. This bill would provide
12 an exemption when, in fact, a rabid animal,
13 particularly a fox or a raccoon, happens to be
14 within that area, we would allow under this
15 provision a person to discharge a firearm to
16 kill that animal.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
18 Senator Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 if Senator Kuhl would be so kind as to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
22 Senator Kuhl, do you yield?
23 SENATOR KUHL: Absolutely.
8281
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Kuhl,
4 it is correct, isn't it, that if a person is
5 bitten by a rabid animal that we do have a
6 cure?
7 SENATOR KUHL: On some occasions,
8 that's correct, Senator Paterson. If you know
9 that an animal is rabid and, in fact, you
10 undertake a procedure which deals with several
11 shots over an elongated period of time -- and
12 it's a rather expensive operation I'm told,
13 somewhere in excess of $1,000 per person -- yes,
14 there is a cure -- I should say "a prevention"
15 that's available in anticipation of the onset of
16 the disease of rabies, yes.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
18 President. I'm not trying to be disingenuous or
19 misleading in my question. What I'm really just
20 trying to point out is the value of the risk of
21 a bite from a rabid animal as opposed to the
22 possibility of an accident with a firearm very
23 close to a school building.
8282
1 So if Senator Kuhl would be
2 willing to yield again?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
4 Senator Kuhl, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy
6 to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator,
10 what we're saying is at the time we put this -
11 this law on the books, there was a concern, as
12 we have in a number of pieces of legislation,
13 about activities occurring around schools.
14 We have increased the penalties
15 for certain offenses particularly involving the
16 sale of drugs and that kind of thing, and the
17 reason that we do that, just generally, is that
18 any kind of societal activity, we feel, takes on
19 an added precedence when it occurs near a
20 school.
21 So, in other words, even if the
22 number of accidents from the discharge of
23 firearms would be a low number, there is a
8283
1 presumption that we don't even want the risk, we
2 don't even want the thought, we don't even want
3 the perception that there is a possibility of an
4 accident or a weapon being fired in one area and
5 it goes through a fence and injures someone near
6 a school.
7 And so what I'm asking is, with
8 that value already applied as law, why would you
9 want to change it in favor of a value that is
10 certainly important but one that has a greater
11 remedy than the possibility of an accident?
12 SENATOR KUHL: The answer to your
13 question, Senator, is very simple. Out in my
14 district about two years ago, we had a situation
15 occur where an individual who, in his backyard,
16 which happened to be within 500 feet of a
17 property defined as a school district, had a
18 rabid animal approaching his children. He had
19 no way of defending his children other than to
20 immediately grab a shotgun and kill the animal.
21 He did so and then was arrested
22 for discharging a gun to defend his children
23 from potentially the onset of a fatal disease.
8284
1 Now, it seems to me that an
2 individual ought to have the right to defend his
3 children, his family members, his friends, who
4 might be on his premises when an animal who is
5 exhibiting rabid tendencies, wandering in
6 circles, being friendly when they are normally
7 not friendly -- certainly, a skunk who raises
8 its tail we would all run from, but that's not
9 the tendency that is exhibited in this
10 particular case. So this bill was put forth
11 essentially to remedy a situation which this
12 individual found himself in, and that was
13 defending the life of his child and actually
14 being prosecuted for doing so.
15 Now, to me, there's something
16 inately wrong with the law when we prosecute
17 people for defending their children, and all
18 this bill does is essentially provide an
19 exemption for those people who find themselves
20 in that position to be able to effect good
21 reason, good rationale and to defend the people
22 that they love the most.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
8285
1 President. I'm really -- after hearing that
2 story, I'm really appalled that the local
3 prosecutor under Section 343 of the Criminal
4 Procedure Law would not have thrown that case
5 out, even though under the law as it exists
6 right now the arrest may have been valid.
7 What Senator Kuhl is saying is
8 absolutely true, and the particular distinction
9 to the example that Senator Kuhl gives and the
10 situation that we're trying to avoid by raising
11 questions on this particular bill is the fact
12 that, if I'm correct, Senator Kuhl, the
13 individual was defending their children from a
14 rabid animal on their own property; and so if I
15 might suggest, I would agree that I see a
16 difference when it is the person's own
17 property.
18 All I'm saying is that this piece
19 of legislation, as I see it, Senator Kuhl, is a
20 little overreaching in the sense that within 500
21 yards of a school building there can be a lot of
22 public area, and it is really the decision or
23 the judgment that's made by individuals, even
8286
1 with respect to rabid animals, in public areas
2 that I would be a little more concerned about.
3 In the example that you are citing, you are
4 correct. There probably should be some redress
5 under the law for that particular situation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
7 Senator Kuhl.
8 SENATOR KUHL: Just if I might
9 address that particular concern.
10 Senator Paterson, you are
11 absolutely correct and that is why, if you
12 notice the language in the bill, there was an
13 addition that essentially puts some conditions
14 as to discharge of the firearm in the bill, and
15 the language reads, "***and no dwelling, house,
16 farm building, farm structure actually occupied
17 or used, school building or playground or
18 occupied factory or a church is situated in the
19 line of discharge."
20 That's a limiting provision that
21 we didn't have to include in the bill, but we
22 did specifically because we didn't want people
23 to start to play games with this statute, this
8287
1 exemption. What we're really intending to do
2 was to essentially eliminate the situation or
3 the potential situation for prosecution that, in
4 fact, occurred, and that's why we presented this
5 bill.
6 It's a real life situation, a
7 real life situation. I underline the word
8 life. It's a real life situation. It was
9 wrongfully prosecuted, no question about that.
10 But the prosecutor when presented with the
11 situation, okay, that there was a discharge
12 within 500 feet of a school premises, prosecuted
13 and what this does is simply take that out and
14 give an exemption in this particular
15 life-threatening situation.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
19 Senator Wright.
20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
21 President. On the bill.
22 I want to commend Senator Kuhl
23 for his initiative and also to recognize my
8288
1 colleague, Senator Paterson, in his understand
2 ing of the problem. In our area of the state,
3 there are considerable concerns and growing
4 concerns, justifiably, over rabid animals, be
5 they raccoons, skunks or foxes, and
6 unfortunately we have a crisis in this state in
7 some areas of the state -- my area, Senator
8 Maziarz' area -- as we are adjacent to borders
9 with Canada in a growing rabid animal population
10 and, consequently, there are circumstances where
11 there is a high degree of danger to children and
12 others that warrant immediate action. They do
13 not and are not conducive to allowing for
14 permits to be filed, a process to go through,
15 but they require a warrant because of the nature
16 of the danger of a rabid animal and an immediate
17 response and capability with reasonable
18 judgment, and I think that's what the Senator
19 has framed within the legislation.
20 It's an appropriate response, and
21 I would ask and encourage my colleagues' support
22 of this bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
8289
1 Senator Waldon.
2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
3 much, Mr. President.
4 Would Senator Kuhl yield to a
5 question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
7 Senator Kuhl, do you yield to a question?
8 SENATOR KUHL: (There was no
9 response.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR KUHL: I do yield. I was
13 disappointed he didn't ask for the learned
14 Senator from Steuben County to yield, but yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Maybe
16 the next time.
17 Senator Waldon.
18 SENATOR WALDON: Just one second.
19 Mr. President, would you ask the
20 learned gentleman from Steuben, Chemung,
21 Schuyler, Yates, Ontario and Tompkins County to
22 yield to a question?
23 SENATOR KUHL: I'll be happy to
8290
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: I
3 wasn't going to repeat that, but the Senator
4 yields.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President.
7 Senator, I have two areas that I
8 need to explore with you. One is I noticed, and
9 I read this very quickly, very cursorily, there
10 was not a mention of dogs in the bill. Are they
11 included in those rabid animals which could be
12 shot on site if the dangers depicted in your
13 bill were evidenced to the owner or the lessee
14 of the home?
15 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, right
16 now, if you were to look at, statistically, what
17 is happening in New York State, we have been
18 somewhat aware of rabies as a disease
19 approaching New York State for several years.
20 There has been, primarily, a couple of species
21 of animals that have carried that disease,
22 primarily raccoons, skunks and foxes.
23 Dogs are not known to be carriers
8291
1 of the disease; however, they can be affected
2 much like cattle can be affected or any kind of
3 a domesticated animal, but the disease primarily
4 rests in those three types of species, skunks,
5 foxes, raccoons.
6 What we have seen over the years
7 is that this disease has gradually migrated, if
8 you will, from the southern states up through
9 and into New York. Senator Wright's concern is
10 very, very, very, valid in that rabies as a
11 disease is approaching his district. It is in
12 all of the southern counties across the state
13 starting out in Chautauqua County in the western
14 part of the state all the way down into New
15 York, the Bronx; it's in New York City all the
16 way across the southern part of the state, and
17 it is migrating north.
18 We have from a budgetary
19 standpoint in the last three or four years
20 attempted to create some pilot programs to try
21 to isolate this disease and work out a
22 prevention program, but, as of yet, we have not
23 come up with a solution. So the solution really
8292
1 is just the disease working itself through, the
2 affected animals dying out, hopefully, out in
3 the wilderness, and their carcasses rotting and
4 the disease dying right there.
5 But what we find is that in the
6 rural counties we're having more and more of an
7 infestation and that is approaching the
8 populated areas and, as a result of that, they
9 are actually becoming life threatening to human
10 individuals. We find ourselves in a situation
11 where it is not uncommon for people to find
12 carcasses of dead raccoons, dead skunks and dead
13 foxes along the road, and people are scared to
14 death to pick them up because once you pick that
15 animal up, if it has recently died, if there's
16 saliva and you have that on your hands then you
17 can transmit that disease to somebody else, to
18 some other animal.
19 So it is very important in the
20 line of this bill to be able to terminate what
21 is obviously an infected animal, its life, to
22 save people, dogs, whatever it may be. We
23 oftentimes are put in a position where our
8293
1 domesticated animals, our dogs and our cats,
2 will embark upon a fight with a skunk, a
3 raccoon, or a fox, and you can't touch that
4 animal because the minute you do, if you have an
5 open wound, then you have now subjected yourself
6 to potential infection and, if you know anything
7 about the disease of rabies, if it goes
8 undetected and untreated, it is fatal. You will
9 die, and it is an awful death.
10 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
11 Oh, we have a new Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
13 Waldon.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
15 President. I don't think I made my question
16 clear. I am actually in support of the bill. I
17 was wondering why, if a rabid dog came into
18 someone's yard, that the bill did not cover -
19 if it is the same danger spelled out in regard
20 to raccoons, foxes, and skunks, it did not cover
21 that the owner or lessee could, as well, shoot
22 that dog. I was really trying to help you to
23 broaden the scope.
8294
1 SENATOR KUHL: It's very simple,
2 Senator Waldon. Dogs and cats really aren't the
3 transmitters of the disease, okay? They are the
4 victims of the disease, but they don't carry it
5 from one place to another as do raccoons, skunks
6 and foxes. They are really the host of the
7 disease and they carry it from one place to
8 another.
9 If a dog becomes infected, it's
10 almost -- I don't know what the hours or the
11 days are, but their life is rather shortlived.
12 SENATOR WALDON: If I may
13 continue, Mr. President. I'll bring this to a
14 close real quick.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
16 Chair recognizes Senator Waldon.
17 SENATOR WALDON: The point I was
18 hoping that you and I could make, Senator Kuhl,
19 is that if a rabid dog were approaching
20 someone's children, that that person would have
21 the same responsibility and the same fear as if
22 it were a fox, et cetera, and I wanted to know
23 could he or she kill that dog with equal
8295
1 dispatch and to be free of liability under this
2 bill that you are proposing? It does not
3 specifically say so. Maybe it's addressed
4 somewhere else and you know about it and,
5 therefore, you did not include it. That's fine
6 with me. I just wanted to know could we take
7 care of that animal with this piece of
8 legislation?
9 SENATOR KUHL: In response to
10 your question, Senator Waldon, I believe that
11 the provisions of the Agriculture and Markets
12 Law allow for the termination of the life of a
13 domestic animal if there is a threat to a
14 person's life, already. That is not the case
15 with regard to a skunk or a fox or a raccoon.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Okay. Thank you
17 very much. One last question, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Chair
19 recognizes Senator Waldon.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Kuhl -
21 and this is just for my personal edification and
22 perhaps the edification of some of those of our
23 colleagues. There's nothing under the laws of
8296
1 the state of New York -- or let me ask this. Is
2 there anything under the state's laws, as you
3 know them, which would preclude a law
4 enforcement officer, if he happened or she
5 happened to be present, rendering the service
6 necessitated by the circumstance of the raccoon,
7 the fox, the skunk, the dog, anyone who might be
8 in a rabid condition, taking that animal's life
9 without fear of personal liability, acting in a
10 reasonable way?
11 SENATOR KUHL: I guess I'm rather
12 limited in knowledge, Senator Waldon, about that
13 particular area, but I don't believe that there
14 is an exclusion that would prohibit a law
15 enforcement officer from doing that. The
16 problem is the situation occurs so quickly, in
17 most cases, that if there is a life-threatening
18 situation that you don't have time to dial up
19 911, call a law enforcement agent, and get them
20 there to do that.
21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
22 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kuhl.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
8297
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
9 bill is passed.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
12 Could you call up Senator Velella's bill,
13 Calendar Number 1167.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1167, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4969, an
18 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
19 eliminating certain criteria for multi-tiering
20 program regarding risks.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
23 Paterson has requested an explanation.
8298
1 The Chair recognizes Senator
2 Velella.
3 SENATOR VELELLA: This is a
4 cleanup bill in which we had provided in past
5 legislation for a multi-tiered system for auto
6 rating to give companies an opportunity to
7 depopulate the assigned risk pool and to create
8 different tiers of insurance commensurate with
9 the risk. We allowed them to do that up to
10 3 percent of their total book of business.
11 However, in doing that, when we
12 allowed them to do the 3 percent of their total
13 book of business, the problem arose that,
14 inadvertently, we had not made an exclusion that
15 would violate the 2 percent rule that says that
16 they can cancel 2 percent of their book of
17 business without any reason.
18 So in order to clear up that
19 technical deficiency, the Department has asked,
20 before they promulgate rules to set the tiers
21 up, that we clear that discrepancy up so that
22 nobody be technically in violation of the law.
23 I just might add that the reason
8299
1 we have done this multi-tier program is that in
2 the state of New Hampshire they have had this
3 program and, based on the effect of this
4 program, they have reduced their assigned risk
5 pool from 33 percent of their total population
6 to 12 percent of the total population. I am
7 very hopeful that this will do the same thing in
8 the state of New York which would affect really
9 your constituents and mine who are very often
10 placed in assigned risk when they shouldn't be.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Chair
12 recognizes Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
14 if Senator Velella would yield for a question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Velella, do you yield?
17 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Senator,
19 I apologize in advance. There were a number of
20 consultations over here and you may have
21 actually answered my question already.
22 But the 2 percent rule that, in a
23 sense, protects the consumers in a particular
8300
1 area from assigned risk, so to speak, how -
2 what is the protection that we have, whereby the
3 insurance company with the multi-tiered policy
4 may actually move individuals into the multi
5 tiers in a sense to get them out? That would be
6 the effect of going around the 2 percent. That
7 wouldn't even count.
8 SENATOR VELELLA: That, Senator
9 -- the 2 percent rule applies to cancellations;
10 any company can cancel without any reason and
11 move someone out. The 3 percent rule is the cap
12 on the most they can move someone in a higher
13 priced tier. They can't move anybody more than
14 3 percent of their total book of business up to
15 a higher level tier. When they do that, if the
16 person drops the coverage because they've been
17 moved to a higher level tier, it violates the 2
18 percent rule because, in effect, they have
19 canceled the person.
20 That's the discrepancy that we
21 are trying to clear up.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: In other
23 words, in actually putting in the multi tiers,
8301
1 you have maintained the same percentages and, in
2 a sense, the same protections that would have
3 existed if they were going into the assigned
4 risk category?
5 SENATOR VELELLA: We put a cap on
6 it, and what we've said is, if it starts to work
7 out the way we anticipate it will work out and
8 it works out as well as it did in New Hampshire,
9 that, in effect, we might then come back here
10 and say we want to see if we can raise this
11 number, and it seems to be working good. If
12 not, you know, we will have to take a look at it
13 and repeal it. But it's worked well in other
14 states. We have no reason to believe that it
15 won't work well here. This bill is before us.
16 That issue was decided by the Legislature
17 before.
18 The issue now is this technical
19 problem between the 3 percent and the 2 percent,
20 which cause a conflict and violate the law, and
21 the Department has asked us to clear that up
22 before they promulgate the regulations.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, that
8302
1 is -- that's very constructive, Senator. I
2 think you can understand what the fear that we
3 would have had if you had not built that
4 protection into the legislation.
5 So, Mr. President, it really is
6 Bronx Day around here. This is a very good
7 bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
9 you, Senator Paterson.
10 Read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect on the same date as
13 Chapter 9 of the Laws of 1995.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Just stand at
22 ease, Mr. President, for a moment.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senate
8303
1 is at ease.
2 (Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the
3 Senate was at ease.)
4 (The Senate reconvened at 12:20
5 p.m.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There's
7 a housekeeping issue, Senator.
8 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, why
9 don't we return to motions and resolutions and
10 do some housekeeping.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
12 you, Senator Kuhl.
13 Senator Saland.
14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 Mr. President, I would like to
17 remove the sponsor's star from my bill, Senate
18 3623-A, Calendar Number 441.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
20 star will be removed.
21 SENATOR SALAND: On behalf of
22 Senator Lack, would you please remove the
23 sponsor's star from Calendar Number 115.
8304
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
2 star will be removed.
3 SENATOR SALAND: On behalf of
4 Senator Bruno, Mr. President, would you please
5 call up Print Number 3219-A recalled from the
6 Assembly which is now at the desk.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
8 Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1078, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3219-A, an
11 act to amend Chapter 714 of the Laws of 1986.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I
13 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
14 bill was passed.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
16 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
17 (The Secretary called the roll on
18 reconsideration.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
20 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I
21 now offer the following amendments.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 bill is before the house. The amendments are
8305
1 received as presented.
2 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
3 on behalf of Senator Hoblock, on page 17, I
4 offer the following amendments to Calendar 657,
5 Senate Print Number 3109 and ask that the bill
6 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
8 amendments are received.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
13 return to reports of standing committees, I
14 believe there's a report at the -- of the Rules
15 Committee. I ask that it be read.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
19 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
20 following bills:
21 Senate Print 5336, by the
22 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the State
23 Finance Law.
8306
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
2 Chair recognize... I'm sorry.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 69,
4 by Senator Larkin, an act to amend the Insurance
5 Law and Tax Law, in relation to supplemental
6 health insurance account;
7 612, by Senator Stafford, an act
8 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
9 relation to the citing of industrial hazardous
10 waste facilities;
11 1929, by Senator Present, an act
12 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act,
13 in relation to adjudicatory proceedings;
14 2013, by Senator Santiago, an act
15 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
16 interest in certain real property;
17 2459-A, by Senator Skelos, an act
18 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
19 directing the Division of Criminal Justice
20 Services;
21 2693, by Senator Padavan, an act
22 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to
23 conjunctional billing by utility corporations
8307
1 and municipalities;
2 3534, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
4 to authorizing the operation of farm motor
5 vehicles;
6 4592-A, by Senator Larkin, an act
7 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
8 to the refund of certain amounts of real
9 property taxes on condominiums;
10 4686, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
11 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
12 relation to the time limitations for speedy
13 trial;
14 5173-A, by Senator Hoblock, an
15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the
16 Penal Law, in relation to definition of juvenile
17 offender;
18 5275, by Senator Marchi, an act
19 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
20 relation to establishing the "Lou Figurelli
21 Memorial Fish and wildlife Sanctuary";
22 All bills record ordered directly
23 for third reading.
8308
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
2 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
4 move we accept the report of the Rules
5 Committee.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All
7 those in favor of accepting the report of the
8 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye".)
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The report is accepted.
13 The Chair recognizes Senator
14 Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
16 immediate Conference of the Majority in Room 332
17 of the Capitol. I believe the Minority has
18 requested a conference.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: There will be
8309
1 an immediate conference of the Minority in Room
2 315 at the Capitol.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
4 you.
5 The Senate will stand at ease.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
7 stand at ease, Mr. President, until 1:15 sharp.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
9 Senate will stand at ease until 1:15 sharp while
10 the respective conferences meet.
11 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
12 ease from 12:30 p.m. until 1:30 p.m.)
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
15 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
17 call up Senator Marchi's bill, Calendar Number
18 854, Senate 2379.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an
23 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
8310
1 relation to directing the Triborough Bridge and
2 Tunnel Authority.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
5 Paterson requests an explanation.
6 Senator Marchi.
7 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
8 the problem on Staten Island and the question of
9 one-way utilization or one-way toll collection
10 is related to the fact that this is the only
11 physical contact that we have with the state of
12 New York, the Verrazano Bridge, and in 1986,
13 Congress established that tolls be collected in
14 a one-way fashion from traffic proceeding
15 westward at the Island.
16 The reason for it was that there
17 was serious, serious difficulties experienced by
18 the residents of Staten Island who were going to
19 work, who were making -- who were employed in
20 New York and drove in or were -- had other,
21 either professional obligations, any number of
22 reasons for reaching the city of New York in the
23 morning on time, and the traffic -- the traffic
8311
1 is very heavy, and the extraordinary delays that
2 were involved sometimes, even with the best of
3 effort and an early departure from home, still
4 resulted in people arriving at work or whatever
5 the circumstances brought them into the City
6 late.
7 Coming back, they can absorb
8 lateness because they can eat later or they just
9 -- it's not their bread and butter. It's not
10 daily living, and Congress mandated this, but
11 the last mandate ran out, so there is no mandate
12 and the people in Staten Island -- I say this is
13 an issue without political division on Staten
14 Island.
15 There isn't a single public
16 official who -- representative who doesn't share
17 this feeling because it is the -- this is a
18 unanimous sentiment of people that suffer
19 grievously, if they're compelled to be
20 subordinated to a system that frequently ends up
21 with their being late, jeopardizing their
22 livelihood, and it's not just a question of
23 convenience. It's -- the convenience can come
8312
1 later, but when people go home, they are
2 prepared to accept convenience, if they're still
3 working and still earning a livelihood.
4 So this would establish, by law,
5 a -- a one-way traffic just making it very -
6 facilitating access for the people of Staten
7 Island to get to the rest of the city in the
8 morning.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
10 Chair recognizes Senator Abate.
11 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Senator
12 Marchi, would you yield to a number of
13 questions?
14 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Marchi, will you yield? The Senator yields.
17 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Marchi,
18 you have obviously represented extremely well
19 your district and certainly in terms of Staten
20 Island, there was some benefit to the one-way
21 toll.
22 The -- my understanding when the
23 bill was passed in 1986, it was partially passed
8313
1 to avoid some financial penalties from the
2 federal government because, in order to be in
3 compliance with some of the issues at hand,
4 there was a prerequisite to have a one-way toll
5 to avoid the reduction in highway monies to New
6 York City, is that correct?
7 SENATOR MARCHI: There -- there
8 may have been other considerations prompting the
9 adoption of the legislation. At that time it
10 was negotiated by Congressman Molinari, the
11 borough -- now the Borough President, and then
12 later by his daughter when she went to Congress,
13 and that objective was totally on the question
14 of access for Staten Islanders so that they
15 could get there -- they could get to their place
16 of work and obligation at -- at a reasonable -
17 in a reasonable time. Now, there may have been
18 other considerations involved and I'll accept
19 that. I'm sure -
20 SENATOR ABATE: But certainly at
21 the time it made sense for New York State not to
22 lose federal highway dollars to pass a law that
23 required the one-way toll. It's my
8314
1 understanding those federal restrictions have
2 been lifted, and so if we fail to act today, we
3 fail not to make it permanent, we don't lose any
4 federal dollars.
5 SENATOR MARCHI: If it cost us
6 money on Staten Island, people don't want to get
7 to work on time. So that -- I appreciate the -
8 these considerations have value, they're not
9 certainly without value, but you've got an awful
10 lot of people there that are seriously
11 inconvenienced. It's just a situation that they
12 cannot abide.
13 SENATOR ABATE: But I think at
14 this point the last environmental impact study
15 that was done was in 1988, I believe. Has there
16 been a study done subsequent to that?
17 SENATOR MARCHI: Traffic is only
18 getting worse. As a matter of fact, not at the
19 -- the Narrows divide, but there's a question
20 of opening -- of constructing another bridge to
21 New Jersey because of the enormous traffic
22 pattern that has developed and it's constantly
23 increasing. So the problem would be a very
8315
1 severe one for people of Staten Island to get
2 over there.
3 SENATOR ABATE: The issue is I
4 also represent a constituency which is very much
5 involved in this issue, and whereas the one-way
6 toll may have benefited the residents of Staten
7 Island, it's perceived as a tremendous detriment
8 to the lower Manhattan area, as well as areas in
9 Brooklyn.
10 I can only speak to the negative
11 impact it has had on lower Manhattan. It's one
12 of the critical issues that community members
13 have talked about in terms of increased traffic,
14 pollution, particularly carbon monoxide,
15 pedestrian and vehicular congestion, and my
16 concern is we're now relying on a 1988 study,
17 and it seems to me before we make this one-way
18 toll permanent, wouldn't it be advisable to have
19 a second study -- we're talking about almost ten
20 years later -- to look at traffic patterns, to
21 look at other kinds of options? I'm not
22 ignoring the issues that you raise vis-a-vis
23 Staten Island commuters, but I am very concerned
8316
1 about that impact, because what has happened is
2 there's more traffic coming from Manhattan to
3 Staten Island because of the one-way toll, and
4 it's hurt businesses. It's hurt the entire
5 downtown area.
6 So I would suggest, if you would
7 consider, is not moving this into a permanent
8 status but consider whether a current study
9 needs to look at the current conditions.
10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I
11 -- I wish I could accede to your request, but
12 we are at risk at the present moment. There is
13 no mandate -- the mandate has expired. I don't
14 know how this mayor feels, but the previous
15 mayor was anxious to have it changed, and he was
16 very much for a restoration of the two-way
17 system.
18 You have to understand, Senator,
19 that -- I remember I used to have lunch with Bob
20 Moses about once every other month back in those
21 days, and on the Island, of course, there wasn't
22 great enthusiasm for the bridge to begin with.
23 However, it was very obvious that the enormous
8317
1 traffic that was generated from Long Island all
2 plowing through Manhattan over those facilities
3 desperately needed a -- a shorter access so that
4 this heavy -- the central city would be relieved
5 of the heavy burden of traffic that it was being
6 -- that they were afflicted with and it was
7 growing incrementally. So that's why the
8 Verrazano Bridge was built. It wasn't built to
9 facilitate Island access, but it was built to
10 shunt so much of that traffic going down below
11 the 40th parallel and going south to send it
12 directly rather than have it plow through the
13 City.
14 Well, we've done that. I mean,
15 we're not -- nobody is jumping up and down with
16 joy that the bridge is there but, nevertheless,
17 it is there, and it is accomplishing the purpose
18 intended by Mr. Moses at that time and millions
19 of cars run through there all the time.
20 SENATOR ABATE: I'm sorry.
21 SENATOR MARCHI: All we ask -
22 all we ask is that we permit it at least to make
23 util... our utilization be protected. If we
8318
1 were deprived of this, it would be a very
2 serious setback to a community of 400,000 people
3 who have no other options. This is the only
4 physical connection that we have with the state
5 of New York. People living in Long Island or
6 any place else have other options. There are
7 bridges. There are tunnels. There are a
8 variety of weapons of choice that they may elect
9 to utilize, but we have nothing else. That's
10 it. That is the only physical connection. The
11 only other way you can do it is to go through
12 Jersey and then go up the Jersey coast and then
13 come back into the city of New York, which is
14 the -- which is the way that we did it at one
15 time.
16 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator
17 Marchi yield to another question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
19 Marchi, will you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Senator.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, but
8319
1 what's before this Legislature is not a bill
2 that is promoting a two-way toll. What you're
3 seeking to do is make the one-way toll
4 permanent, and it seems to me that the one-way
5 toll given the state officials that have now
6 spoken on the issues and the local officials,
7 there's no movement of foot to threaten the
8 status of that one-way toll, and my concern is
9 once you make it permanent -- there may be new
10 bridges, there may be new highways. It seems to
11 me we need to do a feasibility study, do another
12 EIS to determine if, in fact, there are other
13 options that are compatible with the one-way
14 toll and also would reduce the negative impact
15 on lower Manhattan.
16 I'm not suggesting at this point
17 that we go back to a two-way toll. I'm saying
18 to make it permanent, then eliminates the
19 opportunity to look at other options that may be
20 responsive to all of our needs.
21 What we have here is a one-way
22 toll that benefits one community, a very
23 critical community. It's a commuter community
8320
1 that works in the other parts of New York City,
2 but it also impacts on the business and
3 residential community of lower Manhattan, and
4 what I'm suggesting before we make it permanent,
5 why not take another opportunity, another chance
6 to see if there's another way to do it and also
7 meet the needs of both communities.
8 SENATOR MARCHI: Well, you know,
9 I know you're -- you're -- you're in good faith,
10 I accept that, but I'll quote from an article
11 from the -- on the Times of a year and a half
12 ago. "At City Hall yesterday, Mayor David
13 Dinkins", who's an old friend of mine of many
14 years standing, "called for an end to the
15 one-way tolls. He and the Borough Presidents of
16 Manhattan and Brooklyn, Ruth Messinger and
17 Howard Golden, said they wanted jurisdiction on
18 the question restored to the City."
19 It goes on to say, "The system we
20 have only benefits the Island. It's just plain
21 politics", and then he goes on to say that -
22 that the present time system is not supportable.
23 We want it -- we want to see it
8321
1 chiseled in stone at this point. If there are
2 other remedial approaches that would protect the
3 concerns that the people of Staten Island have
4 and at the same time accomplish other
5 objectives, I certainly would offer no serious
6 objection, but that punch has been telegraphed
7 and it's, you know, the same problem that we
8 have with -- with the solid waste disposal. We
9 take over 1,000 tons an hour. Over half of all
10 the solid waste in the state of New York is
11 deposited in Staten Island. There's nothing
12 being done to -- looking to closure, even though
13 that there is a theoretical, critical mass that
14 will be reached by the year 2008, but it -- it's
15 part of the syndrome that people -- concern the
16 people of Staten Island very much, and this one
17 is a -- constitutes a very definite threat given
18 the punches that have been telegraphed by city
19 officials, not by you, Senator, and I know that
20 you want to be fair about this but, believe me,
21 we're not satisfied with the mandate that has
22 just recently expired and we want to see it
23 protected by law.
8322
1 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator -
2 SENATOR MARCHI: And laws can be
3 changed. These are not constitutional changes
4 we're speaking about.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
6 Abate.
7 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would
8 Senator Marchi continue to yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
10 Marchi, would you continue to yield? Senator
11 Marchi continues to yield.
12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. You just
13 raised a very important issue. We're now
14 dealing with a situation in New York City where
15 there are -- a number of boroughs are impacted
16 differently by this one-way toll. Brooklyn and
17 Manhattan feel differently than Staten Island
18 and clearly the City officials as a whole have
19 to look at what's in the best interests of the
20 City.
21 Do you believe the state
22 Legislature is over-reaching by getting involved
23 -- which is really a very local issue. It's an
8323
1 economic issue. It's a quality of life issue.
2 It deals with transportation and other issues.
3 Do you think it's appropriate for the state
4 Legislature to get involved in what really is a
5 local issue?
6 SENATOR MARCHI: If we don't
7 receive relief and protection in the state
8 Legislature, we will not have any -- we've just
9 had too many experiences where our -- even
10 though Staten Island, if the Assembly take their
11 foot off the bill and allow it to be acted upon,
12 would result in the creation of a new city, the
13 second largest in the state. It's still only a
14 very, very small miniscule part of the city of
15 New York and politically, it just doesn't have
16 the clout to -- to -- I mean, we've seen it in
17 so many different circumstances. It just
18 doesn't have the clout to -- to have an audience
19 on this subject and resolved in ways that are
20 fair to the people that I represent and -- but
21 the Legislature has that power, and if we enact
22 this legislation, it will protect my people.
23 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you,
8324
1 Senator.
2 On the bill -- on the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
4 Abate.
5 SENATOR ABATE: As I initially
6 stated, I compliment you, Senator, in
7 representing your district well and the interest
8 of your district, but I too have an obligation
9 to represent the members of my community who
10 feel that they're very much harmed by a one-way
11 toll, and I would like to see -- and I think the
12 fairest way -- and again, I do not underestimate
13 the real impact a two-way toll has had in the
14 past -- in the past, I say, on Staten Island,
15 and I would think that there might be out there
16 an option that could satisfy the needs of both
17 communities, but we won't know that if we don't
18 do a new study, look at an economic feasibility
19 study in terms of other kinds of transportation
20 so that Staten Island could have different ways
21 of commuting into the borough as well as looking
22 at the two-way tolls. Maybe it's at different
23 hours to give some relief for commuters and it's
8325
1 a one-way toll on certain hours and two-way
2 tolls at others.
3 I don't know what the relief
4 would be, but it seems to me that the last EIS
5 study was in 1988. Things have changed since
6 then, and I don't think it's judicious for us in
7 the state Legislature to get involved in a local
8 issue where there has not been a recent impact
9 on three vital communities. Those vital
10 communities are Manhattan, Brooklyn and Staten
11 Island.
12 So what I would urge my
13 colleagues -- again, I'm very sensitive to the
14 needs of the workers in Staten Island but we as
15 a body must also be sensitive to the needs of
16 lower Manhattan and lower Brooklyn.
17 So I would ask that we vote no on
18 this legislation so that we can do a more recent
19 study and maybe come up with an option that
20 satisfies all three boroughs.
21 Thank you very much.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 Chair recognizes Senator DiCarlo.
8326
1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 I rise in support of this
4 legislation. I am in the position of
5 representing two of the counties that are
6 impacted by Senator Marchi's bill, both Staten
7 Island and Brooklyn. The Verrazano-Narrows
8 Bridge, both ends of it connect my district, the
9 Staten Island portion and the Brooklyn portion.
10 I support it for my constituency
11 in Staten Island for all the reasons that have
12 already been stated by Senator Marchi and it's
13 the right thing to do.
14 I also support it representing
15 the area in Brooklyn which is connected by the
16 bridge, the Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights and
17 Bensonhurst communities, and I support it for my
18 constituencies in those communities in Brooklyn
19 also.
20 My two districts, my communities,
21 are very similar and most of my families in
22 Brooklyn have relatives, be they parents or
23 grandchildren, in Staten Island and my
8327
1 constituents in Staten Island also have many
2 relatives in Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights and
3 Bensonhurst, and we are constantly going back
4 and forth over this bridge, sometimes on a daily
5 basis to visit relatives, to get to work, to do
6 what has to be done, and from my constituents in
7 the Brooklyn end of the district, this has not
8 been a hardship with the one-way toll and from
9 my constituents in Staten Island, it would be a
10 hardship if this bill did not pass and we went
11 back to a two-way toll. So I commend Senator
12 Marchi, and I urge this bill's passage.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
14 Connor.
15 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 I appreciate Senator DiCarlo's
18 position as representing two of the counties
19 affected. It was only a few years ago between
20 1983 and the end of 1992 when I represented
21 portions of the three counties most affected by
22 this, Staten Island, Brooklyn and Manhattan, and
23 when the experiment started, although its
8328
1 origins are, frankly, in my view, governmentally
2 questionable, the experiment started when then
3 Congressman Molinari brought the United States
4 Congress in its waiting deliberations about
5 national matters down to debating and voting on
6 whether or not the Verrazano Bridge, wholly
7 contained within the city of New York, would
8 have one-way tolls or not, and I'm sure similar
9 instances like that occurred around the country
10 and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the
11 public's high regard for the United States
12 Congress.
13 Be that as it may, I supported
14 the experiment initially in representing the
15 legitimate concerns of Staten Islanders for air
16 quality, for traffic build-up, because an
17 enormous portion of the traffic is passing
18 through Staten Island from New Jersey. Traffic
19 patterns established that. In fact, I think
20 traffic patterns establish that more Staten
21 Islanders cross into New Jersey than into
22 Brooklyn on a given workday, but that through
23 traffic and the truck traffic was considerable
8329
1 and there was a legitimate concern in Staten
2 Island for air quality.
3 But as the experiment unfolded
4 year after year -- and it was an experiment -
5 it became apparent that because of some of the
6 economics of a one-way toll collection, that
7 motorists, particularly truckers, but many
8 motorists could save money if they entered
9 downtown Brooklyn, the piers there or entered
10 Manhattan via the Verrazano Bridge and then
11 exited those two boroughs by going through lower
12 Manhattan to the Holland Tunnel or even further
13 up, Lincoln Tunnel. They could actually save
14 money partly because of the one-way toll
15 collection patterns that the Port Authority has
16 on getting in and out of New York City.
17 The result -- and the studies on
18 air quality are interesting because what they
19 basically indicate is, except for some slight
20 differences, the difference between one-way toll
21 collection and two-way toll collection in terms
22 of air quality are not really an issue anymore.
23 The differences are somewhat negligible. So
8330
1 there's no -- there's no undue benefit nor,
2 frankly, is there any undue negative from the
3 one-way toll collection.
4 But if you've been in downtown
5 Brooklyn, the morning rush hour, or you've been
6 in lower Manhattan at virtually any time of the
7 day, particularly the evening rush hour, but any
8 time of the day because obviously commercial
9 traffic flows all day, you would see incredible
10 congestion on the streets of lower Manhattan
11 around Canal Street, always a difficult traffic
12 situation there in times past. Now it's
13 impossible.
14 And if you heard from residents
15 of downtown Brooklyn -- because the community I
16 represent there, quite frankly, are for the most
17 part residential, you would see in historic
18 Brooklyn Heights with a whole neighborhood of
19 nationally landmarked -- first historic
20 neighborhood in America -- of landmark pre-Civil
21 War brownstones, the streets clogged in the
22 morning with traffic. If you walked your
23 children to school as I do when I'm not up here,
8331
1 you would see the traffic, when the lights
2 change and you can move, has no regard for the
3 fact that -- these drivers have no regard for
4 the fact that they're in a residential
5 neighborhood. They speed up when they can
6 excessively, because these streets that lead to
7 the Brooklyn Bridge have become just as if they
8 were service roads to the BQE because the
9 traffic volume is such that there's a great
10 degree of diversion.
11 If you're familiar with the next
12 12 years in downtown Brooklyn and Sunset Park,
13 you know that there's a 12-year plan to close
14 most of the Gowanus Expressway and -- for much
15 needed repairs, but to an extent the traffic
16 will be impossible -- even more traffic will be
17 diverted onto local streets.
18 When you get downtown to the BQE,
19 there's a plan to close a bridge, divert all of
20 the traffic on the streets. There's another
21 need to repair -- which will be another dozen
22 year project -- the cantilever around Brooklyn
23 Heights that the BQE rides on, so that with this
8332
1 increased volume which, with all those roadways
2 open and flowing in the morning, has caused this
3 enormous spillover. There will also be these
4 other traffic diversions that only exacerbate
5 the problem to an extent that, frankly,
6 frightens residents. It will make life
7 impossible there that I believe ultimately will
8 affect that ambient air quality in those
9 neighborhoods if we were to measure them a
10 couple years down the road.
11 It threatens the -- because of
12 vibrations, because of everything the traffic
13 brings, threaten these historic neighborhoods in
14 terms of the foundations of very old houses, are
15 very valuable houses, historically and
16 economically and puts -- it's a major problem
17 for downtown Brooklyn and in lower Manhattan,
18 it's just impossible.
19 Once upon a time, Mr. President,
20 I remember representing these three counties and
21 finding out that in one re-election cycle
22 because I had once co-sponsored this bill, I had
23 once supported it, I thought it was an
8333
1 experiment worth trying for the people of Staten
2 Island. I remember paying a political price for
3 that. I remember Democrats in lower Manhattan
4 refusing to support me in a re-election bid
5 because how could I be for this one-way toll,
6 but I thought the fair thing to do at that time
7 -- at that time was try this experiment, and I
8 think the fair thing to do now is face reality,
9 face the facts. Face the fact to make things a
10 little bit better for Staten Island, we really
11 -- is not good policy to make things totally
12 impossible for the residents of downtown
13 Brooklyn and lower Manhattan.
14 Therefore, I think we shouldn't
15 be making this permanent. We ought to be ending
16 this experiment, perhaps going back to the
17 drawing boards and trying to be more creative
18 about how to solve traffic problems for Staten
19 Island as well as for the rest of the City.
20 This, though -- clearly, the experiment has
21 failed. It is not the answer.
22 I intend to once again vote no.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
8334
1 Chair recognizes Senator Marchi.
2 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
3 one of the -- one of the biggest laments -- I
4 believe both Senator Abate and Senator Connor
5 made reference to it, the extraordinary amount
6 of commercial traffic that utilized the system
7 to save some money.
8 This was discussed very
9 thoroughly with -- with traffic engineers and
10 people who have managed bridges, and the bill
11 does provide that such system shall require the
12 collection of round trip toll on westbound
13 vehicles except that the authority may establish
14 a system of two-directional toll collections for
15 any commercial vehicle other than an omnibus
16 with a gross vehicle weight in excess of 18,000
17 pounds.
18 So that the heavy users and the
19 ones that are generating perhaps might be paying
20 a fairer share of the cost are these commercial
21 vehicles, especially those of a certain weight,
22 and that has been provided for in this bill. We
23 could put in place under the terms of this bill
8335
1 a two-way collection for these commercial
2 vehicles.
3 So I really -- to -- you are a
4 valued collaborator, Senator, while you were
5 there, and I know you both have -- you both like
6 Staten Island and hold it in your -- in esteem,
7 but this is very, very serious to the people I
8 represent, and if we don't get -- if we don't
9 get protection here, we're not going to get it.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar Number 854 are Senators
19 Abate, Connor, Espada, Kruger, Leichter,
20 Markowitz, Onorato, Paterson and Santiago.
21 Also, Senator Stachowski. Ayes 46, nays 10.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 bill is passed.
8336
1 Senator Smith.
2 THE SECRETARY: Also, Senator
3 Smith.
4 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 Chair recognizes Senator Spano.
7 SENATOR SPANO: Can we please go
8 to the Senate Supplemental Calendar Number 1,
9 non-controversial?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1178, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 69, an act
14 to amend the Insurance Law and the Tax Law, in
15 relation to supplemental health insurance
16 accounts.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
18 the last section.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
20 please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8337
1 1179, by Senator Stafford -
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
4 Chair recognizes Senator Leichter.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
6 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
7 the negative on the three following bills:
8 Calendar 563, 994 and 1161.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Without
10 objection, the Senator is recorded in the
11 negative on 563, 994 and 1161.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
14 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Spano.
17 SENATOR SPANO: I believe 994 has
18 not been passed yet.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
20 Spano, you're correct, 994 has not passed yet.
21 Senator Paterson, why do you
22 rise?
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
8338
1 would you please recognize Senator Montgomery.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
3 Montgomery.
4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank
5 you, Mr. President.
6 I would like unanimous consent to
7 be in the negative on Calendar Number 854.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
9 Unanimous consent to record Senator Montgomery
10 in the negative on Calendar 854.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1179, by
15 Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an act to
16 amend the Environmental Conservation -
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
19 bill will be laid aside at the request of
20 Senator Paterson.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1180, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1929, an
23 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure
8339
1 Act, in relation to adjudicatory proceedings.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
5 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago
13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules,
14 Assembly Bill Number 2812 and substitute it for
15 the identical Calendar Number 1181.
16 Calendar Number 1181, by Member
17 of the Assembly Griffith, Assembly Print Number
18 2812, an act authorizing the city of New York to
19 reconvey its interest in certain real property.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
21 substitution is ordered. There's a home rule
22 message at the desk. Read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8340
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1182, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2459-A, an
10 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
11 directing the Division of Criminal Justice
12 Services.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Lay it
15 aside at the request of Senator Paterson.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1183, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2693, an
18 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
19 to conjunctional billing by utility corporations
20 and municipalities.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8341
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 bill is passed. Oops.
7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
8 the negative on Calendar Number 1183 are
9 Senators Seward. Ayes 55, nays 1.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1184, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3534, an act
14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
15 relation to authorizing the operation of farm
16 motor vehicles.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8342
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1185, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4592-A, an
6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
7 relation to the refund of certain amounts of
8 real property taxes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect on the first day of
13 January.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1186, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4686,
22 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
23 relation to the time limitations for speedy
8343
1 trial.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1187, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5173-A,
14 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and
15 the Penal Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
17 bill is high. Lay it aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1188, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5275, an
20 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
21 in relation to establishing the "Lou Figurelli
22 Memorial Fish and Wildlife Sanctuary. "
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
8344
1 bill is high. Lay it aside.
2 Senator Spano, that completes the
3 non-controversial calendar.
4 SENATOR SPANO: Can we proceed to
5 the controversial calendar?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Proceed
7 with the controversial calendar.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1178, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 69, an act
10 to amend the Insurance Law and the Tax Law.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
12 Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
14 Paterson has requested an explanation.
15 Senator Larkin.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
17 this legislation would give employers the option
18 of establishing individual trusts on behalf of
19 their employees that may be used to help to pay
20 for primary health care.
21 These trusts must be used in
22 conjunction with conventional catastrophic
23 insurance coverage. The use of the supplemental
8345
1 accounts have been proven to reduce annual
2 health care costs by as much as 30 percent and
3 as of today that we speak, there are -- eight
4 states have adopted it. Pennsylvania's House
5 did it two weeks ago and we're informed that the
6 Pennsylvania Senate will do it within the next
7 ten days. We have been told that there are
8 major corporations across the country who have
9 put into effect the 35 to 40 percent savings to
10 the corporation and to the employees.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
14 I'll just ask a brief question and then I'll let
15 you recognize Senator Leichter. Senator, if you
16 would yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
18 Larkin, will you yield for a question?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, I will
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
22 Senator yields.
23 Senator Paterson.
8346
1 SENATOR PATERSON: I would
2 imagine that these programs sound very attract
3 ive to the young and the healthy individuals who
4 don't want to go into a managed care program
5 because in those programs their choice of doctor
6 is limited, but how do these -- how do these
7 types of insurance help an individual who is
8 unaware at the time that they obtain the
9 insurance that they are not going to be as
10 successful in protecting them should they incur
11 some catastrophic illness or some long,
12 protracted illness?
13 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator
14 Paterson, in reading the bill and in the memo
15 that we sent out, when you look at the
16 individual account for 2,000 and 4,000 a family,
17 that percentage goes back in and covers them all
18 in the catastrophic because it isn't just an
19 individual account, it also protects them under
20 catastrophic insurance.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 if Senator Larkin would continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8347
1 Larkin, will you continue to yield?
2 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
5 Larkin yields to Senator Paterson.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Correct me if
7 I'm wrong, Senator, but I thought that catas
8 trophic illness would require a large deductible
9 and something that demonstrates that the
10 individual insured is actually protected in that
11 particular way, and I just don't understand how
12 this plan can provide the same protection
13 because if it did, then it would seem to me that
14 other plans at which -- incur large sums of
15 payments for it, you know? In other words,
16 that's why the catastrophic plan has high
17 deductibles; this does not. So I just surmise
18 that the whole is equal to the sum of its parts,
19 that there isn't a part in this coverage that is
20 going to add up to give that long-term care.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator
22 Paterson, in the bill, we've quite clearly
23 delineated that, that in that 2,000, that will
8348
1 be what they will use as their markup for their
2 catastrophic.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll tell you
4 what, Senator.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
6 Paterson.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
8 if you would recognize Senator Leichter, let me
9 take a look at what Senator Larkin is saying.
10 He may well be right.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
12 Chair recognizes Senator Leichter.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Senator
14 Larkin, if you would be good enough to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Larkin, will you yield to a question from
17 Senator Leichter?
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: What is the
22 cost to the treasury of the state of New York
23 for this program as you've estimated?
8349
1 SENATOR LARKIN: We figure that
2 there will be none. There has been none in any
3 of the other states that have adopted it so far
4 either.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let
6 me see if I can understand that. You give a tax
7 deduction, do you not, to the extent that there
8 is not a deduction under the Internal Revenue
9 Code for that $2,000 that the employer puts into
10 the account for the employee's health insurance.
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, first of
12 all, you know that an employer gets 100 percent
13 deductible for buying the health insurance for
14 his own employees, right?
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: In some
16 instances, yes. I'm not sure in all instances,
17 but you provide in here -- in there -- and
18 obviously -
19 SENATOR LARKIN: There is a
20 penalty now. If they take that deduction out
21 before like the 31st day of December, they pay a
22 ten percent penalty and that penalty money goes
23 back into the catastrophic fund.
8350
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me draw
2 your -- if you would be good enough to continue.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
4 Leichter -- Senator Larkin, do you continue to
5 yield to Senator Leichter?
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
7 President.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me draw
9 your attention to the provision that starts on
10 line 53 on page 2. "The account holder's em
11 ployer may subtract the amount of contribution
12 made by the employer to an individual supple
13 mental insurance account established on the
14 employer's behalf to the extent that the
15 contributions are not deductible under the
16 Internal Revenue Code."
17 Now, obviously you put it in for
18 some purpose, and the purpose is to provide an
19 inducement, an incentive to set up these
20 programs and to the extent that there are
21 already not deductions under the Internal
22 Revenue Code, you want to provide those
23 deductions. You provide those deductions. That
8351
1 means that the employer will be paying less
2 state tax. What's the bottom line for the state
3 of New York?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, we don't
5 figure that there will be any loss as far as
6 we're concerned. We've looked at it. We've
7 looked at it to all the other employers -- right
8 now we have employers in the state of New York
9 through their subsidiaries and other locations
10 are doing it and they're not losing any money.
11 So if they're not losing it in some other
12 location, why would we be losing it?
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let
14 me ask you the ques...
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Larkin, will you continue to yield -
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: -- to
19 Senator Leichter?
20 Senator Leichter.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President
22 -- Senator Larkin, if there's no possibility of
23 any tax loss, why did you put that provision in
8352
1 there?
2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, there's
3 some goings on in Congress right now that we
4 want to make sure that we're in line to protect
5 ourself for now and in the future, because if
6 you're looking at this right now, Senator
7 Leichter, most of the people who will enter into
8 this here insurance business, now most of them
9 are covering their employees under an HMO and
10 already have that deductibility as is.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
12 don't claim to be an expert on tax law. I think
13 the reason that there may already be deduct
14 ibility is because an employer can deduct or -
15 from an employee's salary and income that he
16 pays to the employee, so that's deductible. I
17 assume this is part of the deductibility. Are
18 you making this also tax-free for the employee?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I go back
20 to the same thing. There already is a
21 deductibility for health insurance and this is
22 just a new form of it.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
8353
1 don't believe that there is presently a tax
2 deduction for an employee. In other words, if I
3 take part of my state salary, assuming it's ever
4 paid, but -- maybe you like me have insurance
5 under -- have the Empire Plan, and so on. We
6 don't get a deduction for that.
7 SENATOR LARKIN: The employer -
8 you might have misunderstood me, Senator.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Senator,
10 I -- we've covered the employer. I'm asking now
11 about the employee; whether your bill -- you
12 bill provides any deductibility for the
13 employee.
14 Senator Stachowski calls to my
15 attention that the memorandum -- although I see
16 that's the memorandum, it's not the sponsor's
17 memorandum -- talks of the employee -
18 SENATOR LARKIN: The only
19 deductibility they get is if they take that out
20 and use it for health care, period. If they
21 were to take any of this money out, it would all
22 be taxable.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: So if they
8354
1 leave it in this account to cover for their
2 catastrophic health needs, and so on, the
3 employee gets a deduction?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: No. If the
5 employee takes this out, the ones that are in
6 there, in that account and uses it for anything
7 but health, he must pay a tax on it.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me,
9 Senator.
10 SENATOR LARKIN: Plus the
11 penalty.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, right
13 now, the employee, as I understand it, has to
14 pay for any income that he receives. This is
15 income, right?
16 SENATOR LARKIN: But in our
17 proposal as in the other states, the money that
18 he may take out is to cover medical costs. So,
19 therefore, it addresses that issue.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, it
21 must be me, but I must say I find your
22 explanation very difficult to understand. Let
23 me just ask you this simple question.
8355
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
4 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: The amount
7 that the employer puts into this account on
8 behalf of an employee, is that amount in the
9 year that it's put in and where the employee
10 does not withdraw it or make any other use of
11 it, is that deductible to the employee from the
12 employee's income tax?
13 SENATOR LARKIN: It's not counted
14 as income because it stays in that fund.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: He doesn't take
17 it out. He doesn't have access to it.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Well,
19 Senator, in that event, there certainly has to
20 be a loss to the state of New York, because
21 presently if an employee receives a sum of
22 $2,000 and puts it into a -- and puts it into
23 some health insurance, the employee has to pay
8356
1 tax on that.
2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I -- I
3 don't know any better way to say it except the
4 fact that this money would be going for health
5 benefits. This is money that would be normally
6 expended on their own health. It isn't going to
7 be a loss because it's something that you don't
8 have out there.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
10 Onorato, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR ONORATO: If I may, the
12 way I kind of equate this with a supplemental
13 annuity. When the employee makes this contrib
14 ution -- the employer makes the contribution,
15 it's in lieu of additional health insurance. If
16 the employee so chooses to use it for health
17 benefits, it is not taxable, but if the employee
18 chooses -- the employee chooses to withdraw it,
19 it's as if he took money out of the bank as
20 income and he would be required to pay a tax on
21 it, but so long as he doesn't use it one way or
22 the other, it remains in the fund and it is not
23 taxable.
8357
1 SENATOR LARKIN: You are right.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
4 Leichter, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: To ask Senator
6 Larkin to continue to yield.
7 I appreciate Senator Onorato's
8 explanation and that's how I understood it, but
9 then without question, Senator, there has to be
10 a tax consequence for the state of New York,
11 because the -- that amount that the employer is
12 going to put away for his employee is going to
13 be considered by the employer in some respect or
14 other as income that he's paying the employee,
15 and that amount, if it were paid to the employee
16 and the employee bought health insurance, the
17 employee would have to pay taxes on it.
18 So now you're going to have a
19 situation where employees will not be buying
20 health insurance because it's going to be done
21 by their employer and they will not be taking
22 this income. They will not be paying tax to the
23 state of New York. There clearly is a tax
8358
1 consequence. That's all I'm trying to
2 establish.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think
4 that, one more time, we have a situation here
5 where we're trying to assist employees and
6 employers to provide funding for health care.
7 If this wasn't done this way, the employees
8 would be paying it directly out of their pocket
9 in some other fashion. That money that they get
10 in the beginning is taxable. This employer is
11 putting in 2,000. He can only put in 2,000 for
12 himself for the first, the second, a maximum of
13 up to $6,000. We don't see any loss of revenue
14 from what we have now.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
17 Leichter.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
19 there's no sense Senator Larkin and I dancing
20 around this any longer.
21 Senator, I understand what you're
22 trying to do and maybe there's a public benefit
23 for it, but I think to say that there's no tax
8359
1 loss to the state of New York is just totally
2 wrong. There clearly and absolutely is a tax
3 loss because the employer, by setting up this
4 particular plan, will be avoiding paying taxes.
5 The employee under this particular proposal will
6 not have to pay taxes on the $2,000 that goes
7 into this plan, and that's going to be income.
8 In other words, somebody who
9 makes 60,000, the employer is going to say to
10 the employee, "You know what; I'm going to pay
11 you 58,000, but I'm going to put $2,000 that's
12 going to buy you this health insurance and as to
13 that $2,000, you're not going to be paying
14 taxes. So you're only going to be paying taxes
15 on $58,000 dollars" and there is a tax loss to
16 the state of New York.
17 Now, maybe the state ought to
18 subsidize it or shouldn't subsidize it, but at
19 least we ought to understand what we're doing;
20 we ought to understand the cost, and without
21 having some analysis of what the cost is and
22 whether the state of New York wants to subsidize
23 health care in this way, I would be against it.
8360
1 Yesterday, Senator Larkin, you
2 and other members here were smacking your lips
3 as you were cutting Medicare and health care for
4 a lot of people. Now you turn around today and
5 you're subsidizing health care essentially for
6 people who are better off, people probably who
7 are healthier and I don't understand the
8 rationale, and to say, "Oh, well, this isn't
9 going to cost the state of New York anything",
10 it's just absolutely, totally false.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
12 Larkin.
13 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
14 one more time. I think there's two things we
15 ought to understand here, that this money is not
16 considered income because it is a health
17 benefit. When you start to realize that, you
18 put money aside.
19 Mr. Leichter said, well, the
20 60,000 would take it down to 58-. I think we're
21 trying to make apples into an orchard field. No
22 money put aside by an employer for health
23 insurance is considered income, period.
8361
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
2 Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
4 if Senator Larkin would yield for just a couple
5 more questions.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
7 Larkin, will you yield?
8 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mis... Senator
13 Larkin, would employers be setting up a
14 supplemental account for those employees who
15 lose the traditional or managed health care
16 plans?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: No, they would
18 not, Senator.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
22 Larkin, what would the protection be for those
23 employees who lose their traditional health care
8362
1 plan?
2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, there are
3 cases where they could provide it but there's no
4 requirement that they would have to.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. The -
6 if the Senator would continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
12 Senator continues to yield.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: In passing
14 this bill, Senator, aren't we sending a mixed
15 message along with the other legislation that we
16 are drafting in terms of managed care? In other
17 words, we've got managed care on one hand and we
18 have this on the other. Are we not confusing
19 the residents of the state as to what is the
20 best way to cover themselves under our current
21 health standards?
22 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I don't -
23 Senator Paterson, I don't believe that. We're
8363
1 offering an alternative. When we start to
2 realize that eight other states have adopted
3 this, a ninth state is in the process of doing
4 it, it quite clearly points out that this is an
5 option that employers and employees collectively
6 can do.
7 When you start to read that
8 Forbes just said that their work rate, their
9 lost time rate for illness had decreased and
10 their total cost was less by 40 percent over the
11 past two years, so it tells you that it has to
12 be working. If it wasn't, I don't think you
13 would have eight states doing it, the ninth one
14 is -- just a month ago, the National
15 Manufacturers Association testified in Congress
16 to address this issue and the issue that affects
17 some states on the tax break.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
19 Paterson.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: United Auto -
21 Mine Workers, by the way, are one of the big
22 participants in this.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
8364
1 Senator Larkin.
2 If Senator Larkin would continue
3 to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
5 Senator, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8 Larkin continues to yield.
9 Senator Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Earlier I
11 asked you a question about catastrophic health
12 care and I think I probably confused you because
13 your bill, as you pointed out in your answer,
14 does -- it does address catastrophic health
15 care, but what I'm really getting at is not that
16 situation where a person would be put in an
17 intensive care unit in a hospital, and it's
18 clear that your bill covers this kind of
19 situation. What about a person that has a
20 protracted, long-term illness, let's say a
21 person, unfortunately, is afflicted with the HIV
22 virus or a person has some kind of neurological
23 disease and they require extensive and
8365
1 continuing medications. So what they're now
2 doing is they're going to have to be laying out
3 large sums of money on a continuing basis for
4 that medication, and what I'm contending,
5 Senator, is it's going to eat up that $2,000
6 that you're talking about, and individuals who
7 can't afford it who never dreamed that this
8 could possibly happen to them because when they
9 originally took the plan they didn't have a
10 problem, they're covered in the long term, they
11 may be all right in the short term because
12 they're healthy, but in this situation where you
13 have a long-term illness, they're not going to
14 have the money and they're going to wind up in a
15 sense as a bad debt and charity insurance.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator
17 Paterson, I'll give you a memo so you can share
18 it with Senator Leichter, but in all of the
19 states that we've looked at, when you use up
20 that $2,000, your costs roll over contrary to
21 what -- somebody down on State Street sent a
22 memo to it. When you run that $2,000 over, you
23 automatically convert over into the catastrophic
8366
1 where it picks it all up.
2 This is not something that was
3 dreamed up here. We've looked at it. We've
4 looked at the other states. Some of the points
5 that Senator Leichter brought up, we tightened
6 them up, Senator Leichter.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8 Paterson.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: I just looked
10 at that section as I promised I would and that's
11 how we got the matter of the catastrophic
12 illness cleared up, but I assure you, I did not
13 see that. I don't see how that long-term
14 illness kicks in. Can you explain to me where
15 in the bill that actually does that?
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I
17 don't know how to make it any clearer, but -
18 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry.
19 SENATOR LARKIN: -- all I'm going
20 to say to you is that I have seen it in
21 operation in the other states. I have gone and
22 visited Golden Rule. I have talked to Forbes.
23 I talked to the United Mine Workers and they are
8367
1 clearly -
2 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator,
3 it does pay for prescription drugs.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
5 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR PATERSON: See that's
7 what I'm saying, Senator. You may have seen it
8 in the other states. I'm just asking you to
9 show it to me in the bill. I don't see where it
10 pays for prescription -
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, we
12 think it is in the bill and I think it's very
13 clear. We tell you that when you eat up that
14 $2,000, you'll go into catastrophic and you will
15 be paid for it.
16 Thank you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 on the bill.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
22 Paterson on the bill.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: I think that
8368
1 -- I just would recommend that I'm open to
2 anyone right now to get up and show me where it
3 says in this bill that it will cover prescrip
4 tion drugs. I maintain that it's not there. If
5 there's anybody here or in the sound of my voice
6 who can show me where it exists in this bill, I
7 would really like them to -- to come forward and
8 let me know that, because it's just a concern
9 that we have about individuals and a long-term,
10 protracted illness that, if satisfied, I think a
11 number of us would -- would want to vote for the
12 bill.
13 However, another issue that has
14 been raised by some of the insurance companies
15 is the fact that what we're really doing is
16 setting up a class system of insurance. We are
17 inviting those who are likely to be more healthy
18 over a period of time to opt out into this
19 special plan, and we are actually, in terms of
20 the community rating pool, lowering the caliber
21 of good risks in that pool and making it more
22 difficult on our insurance companies inevitably
23 raising the deductible and causing a problem for
8369
1 those who would be unable to afford the actual
2 deductibles.
3 The whole basis and idea of
4 insurance is that it is a collectivist sort of
5 doctrine that we're all in it and those of us
6 who have need are benefited by those of us who
7 pay a small amount of our salaries and
8 contribute to the pool and it all works out.
9 If we are now going to, in a
10 sense, create a new actuary and opt out into a
11 whole different program, to, in a sense, create
12 a break for those who don't think they're going
13 to have a medical problem and then to, as a
14 state, in many respects, subsidize it, what
15 we're really doing is setting up what is really
16 a publicly funded insurance system for
17 individuals to benefit from, which is what I
18 thought that many individuals in this chamber
19 who I hear every day rail against; and so what
20 we need is at least a uniform standard that we
21 can all abide by, not to ridicule and cajole
22 individuals who, unfortunately, are impoverished
23 or have a need for seeking assistance from the
8370
1 state, all the while at the same time we are
2 putting this into effect in other legislation
3 that would inure to the benefit of those who
4 don't even have such a great need which, I
5 think, is really a greater malady because at
6 least in the former case, we're doing it because
7 we understand that certain individuals need
8 help.
9 And so for the really bifurcated
10 elements of the issue of there not, in my
11 opinion, being any kind of real care for
12 protracted, long-term illness and the fact that
13 we're setting up what is really a duplicate
14 system that benefits some and penalizes others
15 before any of the actuaries going into effect, I
16 can't support this bill. I understand the
17 concept and it's actually merited, but the way
18 it's applied is something that I don't think
19 would be helpful to the residents as a -- in
20 total around the state.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
22 the last section.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
8371
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
2 Leichter.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
4 just to explain my vote.
5 I want to say I think this really
6 shows the hypocrisy of the Republican Party,
7 because yesterday you cut health care for poor
8 people. You said this state does not have the
9 money. We can't afford to provide the same
10 degree of health care for poor people as we have
11 in the past; then the next day you come in with
12 a bill that provides a health care subsidy for
13 people who can afford it, people who are
14 employed, people who get a benefit out of taking
15 a $2,000 deduction.
16 Senator Larkin's argument, with
17 all due respect, really was way off the mark
18 from his own bill because there clearly is a tax
19 consequence. There's a tax loss to the state of
20 New York, and I just hope people out there are
21 looking, are listening. I don't expect to find
22 that many here in the LCA, but if you wanted a
23 clearer example of where the Republican Party
8372
1 stands, which is benefits for the wealthy,
2 benefits for the affluent, benefits for the
3 non-urban, just take a look at their action
4 yesterday cutting Medicaid and their action in
5 this bill which provides public support, public
6 subsidy for people to go out and buy insurance,
7 people who have the means to buy insurance,
8 people who at least get the benefit of a $2,000
9 deduction. I'm certainly not going to be part
10 of this charade.
11 I vote in the negative.
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: We
14 haven't read the last section yet, Senator.
15 They're explaining their vote. Can we read the
16 last section, please.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
18 act shall take effect December 31st.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse
20 me.
21 Senator Abate.
22 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would
23 Senator Larkin yield to a question? I'm just
8373
1 trying to -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
3 Larkin, will you yield to a question?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 Senator yields to Senator Abate.
7 SENATOR ABATE: I have the
8 philosophy that if we can -- even if it means
9 some tax breaks, we can involve employers and
10 create incentives so that they expand health
11 coverage to employees, that might be a situation
12 where it's merited.
13 My concern is here. Is there -
14 how does this impact on the employer's
15 obligation to provide non-catastrophic insurance
16 coverage to their employees?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Right now, there
18 really isn't an obligation. There -- under this
19 plan, there is a commitment by the employer to
20 his employees. I mean, you have a lot of
21 employees throughout -- employers throughout the
22 state that don't have any health insurance for
23 their employees. We're trying to create
8374
1 something here that is done in other states that
2 has attracted employers to get involved and
3 provide coverage.
4 SENATOR ABATE: Have you found,
5 though, in those other states where this has
6 been passed that those employers are less likely
7 to involve themselves in a managed care health
8 program if they set aside this specialized
9 account? See, my concern is that this will
10 drive employers to offer less health coverage
11 than would be available today if they're so
12 inclined.
13 SENATOR LARKIN: The information
14 that we've received from those that are writing
15 it and those that are involved in it hasn't -
16 has proven to be of greater coverage. The
17 United Mine Workers in West Virginia when they
18 signed on to it, said it provided the best care
19 their employees ever had.
20 SENATOR ABATE: Because they were
21 not offering any care prior to this?
22 SENATOR LARKIN: No, they had the
23 care, but this gave them a better care, better
8375
1 coverage. It allowed them to move from the
2 primary into the eventualities that was cited by
3 by Senator Leichter into the catastrophic
4 without a loss of every bit of their life's
5 earnings.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
7 Abate.
8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would the
9 Senator yield -- continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
11 Continue to yield, Senator Larkin? The Senator
12 continues to yield.
13 SENATOR ABATE: This $2,000 that
14 would be set aside in an account for an
15 employee, could that be used for primary care,
16 as well as catastrophic care?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it can.
18 SENATOR ABATE: Any purpose?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it can.
20 SENATOR ABATE: Now, once that
21 $2,000 is used up and I become ill and I need
22 medication; I need more intensive doctor's
23 coverage; I need home care, whatever, not as far
8376
1 as hospitalization and the $2,000 is used up,
2 what do I do as an ill employee?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Maybe I ought to
4 take a moment and read line -
5 SENATOR ABATE: That's what I
6 need answered, because that's my major -
7 SENATOR LARKIN: Approved -- here
8 it says that the approved catastrophic plan
9 shall mean a health insurance plan approved by
10 the Superintendent to provide coverage of health
11 care costs incurred due to grievous injury,
12 chronic illness or other major medical expenses
13 which may be reasonably expected to incur costs
14 above those covered by the supplemental
15 insurance account. In other words, when your
16 2,000 is kicked out, you're automatically
17 covered as I just read there.
18 Thank you.
19 SENATOR ABATE: What is -- one
20 more question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
22 Abate.
23 SENATOR ABATE: Can you yield?
8377
1 What is not covered -- when one goes beyond the
2 $2,000, what is not covered by this additional
3 account or this additional coverage?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: Routine medical.
5 SENATOR ABATE: Routine medical,
6 diagnostic. Anything else?
7 SENATOR LARKIN: Nope.
8 SENATOR ABATE: And preventive.
9 All right.
10 Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
12 the last section.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
14 President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Dollinger, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
18 President, will Senator Larkin yield to a
19 question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
21 Larkin, will you yield to Senator Dollinger?
22 Senator Larkin will.
23 Senator Dollinger.
8378
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
2 what's the effect -- I believe Senator Paterson
3 may have touched on this. I was listening to it
4 on the speaker. What is the effect of this bill
5 on the community rating system that we put in
6 place in 1992?
7 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator
8 Dollinger, it isn't because remember that this
9 proposal is an option. We're not forcing this
10 on anybody. We're not saying you must do this.
11 We're creating something that would be of
12 benefit to the employees and the employers.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you
14 again, Mr. President, if Senator Larkin -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Dollinger.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Won't this
18 bill take good risks, young, healthy people who
19 work for employers that can afford these types
20 of accounts and won't it take them out of the
21 general pool of users of broad-based health
22 insurance, such as we provided in the open
23 enrollment and the community rating plan?
8379
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator
2 Dollinger, if you remember if you were here in
3 1992 when we did the community rating -
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was not.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: -- open
6 enrollment, well, at that time we created
7 something and we had a lot of young, healthy
8 people leave. Who are we to say that young,
9 healthy people won't leave? This is not created
10 for young, healthy people. How about the United
11 Mine Workers? How about Forbes? How about
12 Campbell's Soup? That's a good mixed bag. When
13 you say won't it take them out? How do you
14 know? They've left now. The people -- you can
15 get case studies now of young, healthy people
16 leaving, because they didn't feel that the
17 policy covered what they needed or that it was
18 cost-effective.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
20 Mr. President, if Senator Larkin will continue
21 to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
23 Larkin, will you continue to yield?
8380
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The whole
6 purpose of community rating was to put everybody
7 in the health insurance pool and spread the risk
8 as far as we could so that perhaps the young and
9 the healthy might pay a little bit more but the
10 elderly and the infirm might pay a little bit
11 less, so we would end up with a system in which
12 the total health risk of the community was
13 balanced across the broad base which, quite
14 frankly, is just the system I come from in the
15 home of community rating and managed care in
16 Rochester where we have major employers who have
17 bought into the Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans
18 and we have achieved a system where we have the
19 lowest health insurance cost in the nation, bar
20 none, and my question is the fear that community
21 rating was designed to prevent was the "cherry
22 picking" of good risks by commercial insurers
23 who could take the profitable users of this
8381
1 system who would be willing to pay premiums but
2 have low health care needs and leave only those
3 who have high health care needs and can't afford
4 it in the community-rated system. Isn't that
5 what this bill begins to do is make an exception
6 to that?
7 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, I
8 think, Senator Dollinger, we're going back and
9 digressing a little, about three years ago when
10 we talked about open enrollment/community
11 rating.
12 Two things you want to think
13 about. That pool we like to enlarge and we will
14 enlarge by this for the catastrophic, for that
15 young and healthy that are into this, they're
16 going to be taken care of too. I think that we
17 ought to stop thinking about community rating
18 and open enrollment and the memo that was sent
19 around. This is an opportunity that we are
20 providing in this state. When we can look at
21 eight other states that have done it, the ninth
22 is going to go to it, we're starting to see that
23 it's working. It's providing the care. It's
8382
1 providing the catastrophic coverage, I think
2 that we ought to open it up. Let's put it out
3 there and see. We know.
4 You know, if you have been paying
5 attention to some of the materials, that the
6 open enrollment/community rating hasn't been the
7 success it's wanted to be. Young, healthy
8 people left it. Here's an opportunity for an
9 employer to participate with his employee, to
10 take care of that primary and the catastrophic.
11 Thank you. Read the last
12 section.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Dollinger.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I did not
18 pay, I guess, close attention to this bill prior
19 to hearing the debate and I'm now concerned that
20 the community rating plan which, at least in my
21 communities seems to have worked so well, could
22 be subject to the same kind of "cherry picking"
23 problem that drove to us community rating in
8383
1 1992, and I still think that's a good idea.
2 I understand from Senator Larkin
3 that there have been problems with the open
4 enrollment system and it took the transition
5 from the hodgepodge of health care providers to
6 an open enrollment to a community rating system
7 that has experienced some difficulties.
8 It has resulted in an increase in
9 premiums in some of the younger and healthier
10 people, but its overall effect in a long-term
11 phase will be to take the whole health care risk
12 and pass it through everyone and stabilize the
13 premiums much as they have been stabilized in
14 Rochester, New York, where, as I said, we have a
15 completely community-rated system. Our health
16 insurance costs a third less than it is anywhere
17 in this state, and I think about 50 percent less
18 than any place in the nation.
19 So, as a believer in the
20 community-rated system, when you see a bill like
21 this which has a benefit perhaps for a portion
22 of the population that has available funds and
23 low risk, then it's a tempting thing because you
8384
1 could pull yourself out of the community rating
2 system and say, "I can pay even less than the
3 community pool", but the effect of that is that
4 the more people that desert the community pool,
5 the greater the chance that the overall health
6 risk among needy populations will drive those
7 premiums for people on fixed incomes and elderly
8 to too high an acceptable rate.
9 So I'm concerned that this would
10 be seen as a step to move away from a community
11 rated system. I know others in the state don't
12 have my experience with it. It seems to have
13 worked very well. I'm concerned that this is a
14 step away from that. As difficult as the
15 transition to community rating is, it's worth
16 while to get there. Rochester is proof of it.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect December 31st.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8385
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
2 Johnson to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
4 I regret that I wasn't here through the entire
5 debate, but some of the discussion I heard on
6 this bill was quite unbelievable, especially
7 from the other side of the aisle who tried to
8 essentially in some respects twist this bill out
9 of context and then say they didn't understand
10 it or they didn't want to understand it.
11 I mean, we talk about HMOs and
12 how this would affect them. HMOs are a new
13 competitive factor which has happened to bring
14 lower cost health care.
15 On the other hand, this community
16 rating, this bail-out of Blue Cross just
17 guaranteed everybody higher rates and, of
18 course, those who stayed in the community rating
19 did so because their rates went down and those
20 rates who doubled got out and they have no
21 protection at all. So obviously there's another
22 need for another competitive factor out here to
23 keep these rates under control and this is the
8386
1 type of bill which can do it.
2 This isn't a bill which says to
3 you -- instead of having a plan which says, you
4 go to the doctor, spend all the money you want,
5 says the first $3,000 out there is yours. Spend
6 it if you like or don't spend it if you don't
7 want to. There's some benefit to you for having
8 that money out there as a member of an employee
9 trust.
10 If there's a company which
11 decides to change from another health plan to
12 this type of health plan, the result would
13 probably be a saving in premiums. It's been
14 demonstrated there's a 40 percent savings of
15 premium with companies that have gone to this
16 type of a plan and the employees are very
17 satisfied by it.
18 This has an additional innovation
19 of letting an individual be in the same position
20 as somebody who works for large corporations
21 where you get your medical coverage free,
22 included. There's no tax implication. By the
23 same token, an individual could be in the same
8387
1 position as an employee to buy his own insurance
2 tax free just as the employer does for other
3 people.
4 It makes sense to me to provide
5 this opportunity to people and broadening the
6 insurance market and putting an innovation which
7 is going to keep costs down.
8 It's a very good bill and it's
9 unrecognized on the other side to be that, but I
10 hope most people understand that this is the way
11 we should go to open up the market.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
13 Results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
15 the negative on Calendar 1178 are Senators
16 Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gonzalez,
17 Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago and
18 Smith. Ayes 46, nays 10.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
20 bill is passed.
21 Senator Skelos, if you might give
22 us a minute, we're -- have some equipment
23 changes with the stenographers.
8388
1 Thank you.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
4 Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Please let us go
6 to Calendar Number 1172, Senate 5117.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
8 Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: 1172, by Senator
10 Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an act to amend the
11 Election Law, in relation to accessible polling
12 places.
13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI:
14 Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
16 Explanation is called for. Senator Goodman.
17 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President,
18 this is a local bill, sponsored in the Assembly
19 by Assemblyman Sanders, which would authorize
20 the Board of Elections to take action which I
21 can best illustrate with a specific example.
22 In my Senate District the polling
23 place has been moved out of an election district
8389
1 because there is no place accessible to the
2 handicapped within the district. The new
3 polling place is across a very busy main cross
4 town street with a light that gives seniors in
5 sufficient time to cross the street. As a
6 result, many seniors have stopped voting.
7 The core point here is that,
8 where there is a requirement to do everything
9 possible to assist the disabled in voting, we
10 wish to continue to protect the disabled and, in
11 an instance such as this, the way to do it is to
12 have them vote in a contiguous district which is
13 much closer and convenient to them than the one
14 that has to be moved out of the district.
15 It is strictly in the interest of
16 the public in two respects. It helps the
17 disabled, and it helps those seniors in this
18 case who would otherwise have a very
19 inconvenient and inaccessible voting place that
20 they have to go to because it's the only one
21 within the district, albeit very remote, that is
22 accessible to the handicapped.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8390
1 Stachowski.
2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would
3 Senator Goodman yield for a question?
4 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will,
5 Senator.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
7 will yield.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, is
9 that a situation that is prevalent in the city
10 of New York? Are there a lot of election
11 districts that are having this problem or rather
12 a limited problem?
13 SENATOR GOODMAN: I only know of
14 this one instance. I know of no other specific
15 case that it is such a problem, but it's quite
16 conceivable that it could be.
17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
21 Onorato is recognized.
22 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator
23 Goodman -
8391
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
2 Goodman, will you yield?
3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will.
4 SENATOR ONORATO: Will you yield?
5 I'm not exactly sure what this will do, but I'm
6 hopeful that it will do something. I have a
7 situation in my district where some of the
8 schools are not handicapped accessible and they
9 close them down for voting and I have different
10 situations where we have disenfranchised a great
11 many of the voters because they had to go to
12 distances much greater in much smaller
13 facilities that could not accommodate them.
14 Now, will this alleviate this
15 problem? Will I be able to reopen that school?
16 SENATOR GOODMAN: It will,
17 however, assuming that there is within the -
18 within the contiguous district a handicapped
19 accessible voting place. It's designed exactly
20 to solve the problem you're talking about.
21 SENATOR ONORATO: In other words,
22 if I had a school nearby -
23 SENATOR GOODMAN: That would be
8392
1 accessible.
2 SENATOR ONORATO: -- that is
3 accessible, would that make it accessible for
4 the handicapped?
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: It gives the
6 Board of Elections the discretion to do it and
7 it would only be done obviously for the
8 handicaps and those who have otherwise long
9 distances to go.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
11 Montgomery.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Would
13 the sponsor answer just a few questions?
14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Goodman yields.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
18 Goodman, I have an instance from my own polling
19 place where the entire election district was
20 sort of displaced, if you will, displaced and
21 sent a long distance because the school where we
22 usually have voted was not handicapped
23 accessible.
8393
1 Does the bill then give the Board
2 of Elections the option setting up an alterna
3 tive polling site for -- specifically for the
4 handicapped other than the handicapped?
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Provided it's
6 in a contiguous, that is, adjoining district.
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And then the
8 rest of the polling place does not move?
9 SENATOR GOODMAN: It helps the
10 handicaps and helps the other people who would
11 otherwise have to go long distances because of
12 the provisions.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And the
14 polling place does not have to be closed down,
15 does it?
16 SENATOR GOODMAN: That's
17 correct.
18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
19 On the bill, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
21 Montgomery, on the bill.
22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: This is a
23 good bill, and I know the Senator on our side
8394
1 from western New York probably does not
2 understand, but this is a very big problem in
3 the city of New York. I experienced it
4 personally and I've tried to intervene on a
5 number of cases where the polling site has been
6 changed, to the tremendous inconvenience of
7 large numbers of constituents.
8 So I support the legislation.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar 1172 are Senators
19 Libous and Smith. Ayes 54, nays 2.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
21 bill is passed.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
8395
1 at this time, would you call up Calendar Number
2 1153, Senate 5336.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: O.K.
4 We're going to read a substitution.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
6 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
7 Assembly Bill Number 8063 and substitute it for
8 the identical Calendar Number 1153.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Move
10 substitution.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
12 Skelos. Substitution is so ordered.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
14 message at the desk?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There
16 is a message of necessity at the desk.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All in
19 favor of accepting the message of necessity
20 signify by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Opposed nay.
23 (There was no response. )
8396
1 The message is accepted.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
4 the last section.
5 The Secretary will read the
6 title.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1153, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
9 Assembly Print 8063, an act to amend the State
10 Finance Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse
17 me.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could make
19 one correction, I believe we had the message -
20 moved the message before the title was read, so
21 at this time, Mr. President, is there a message
22 at the desk?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Yes,
8397
1 there is.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All in
4 favor of accepting the message of necessity
5 signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 Opposed nay.
8 (There was no response. )
9 The message is accepted.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: An explanation
11 has been requested.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
13 Stafford for an explanation.
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: We're moving
15 right along, Mr. President, here in this budget
16 process, and you know, I got thinking as I just
17 walked in here, I think this has been mentioned
18 a couple times, but I think this was said
19 sarcastically and I'm not being sarcastic at
20 all. We're doing the Article VII bills of the
21 budget at 2:55 and the sun is out.
22 I don't want to discourage
23 anyone but, on the other hand, I think that's a
8398
1 real plus that we're here doing it in a very
2 sensible hour and, when you came here the other
3 hours, you know and appreciate a sensible
4 hour.
5 This piece of legislation will
6 provide for us the Article VII bills that the
7 Governor has sent to us to implement the budget
8 for 1995 and '96.
9 Now, I could go down and include
10 every single section, but I don't think you
11 would necessarily want me to do that, I'll be
12 glad to. People say no, all right? And another
13 no. But I will be pleased to, on a serious
14 note, answer questions when I have -- after I've
15 completed my short explanation.
16 But much of what I will mention
17 here is just an example of what we are passing
18 and, as I say, there may be some specific areas
19 that you wanted to ask about.
20 I think importantly it was
21 decided that the assets and liabilities of the
22 Office of Rural Affairs be included in the
23 Secretary of State's office. I'm going to have
8399
1 Senator Nozzolio speak in just a moment, and I'm
2 sure he will explain, you know, how we came to
3 that decision. He does not have to. It was a
4 very -- it was a sensible decision. On the
5 other hand, he has some very strong feelings
6 concerning that issue, as many of us did.
7 Also, Mr. President, Love Canal
8 that affects people on all sides of the aisle
9 here is in consideration again, and monies will
10 be provided and the payments will be made, some
11 of the payments will be made to the city of
12 Niagara Falls.
13 Also we have, which is important,
14 it was determined necessary and we authorized
15 the issuance of up to 14 million in certificates
16 of participation to provide funds for the
17 replacing of petroleum storage tanks by OGS at
18 the various state agencies. I know sometimes
19 we've been a bit concerned -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
21 Paterson, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
23 I want to apologize to Senator Stafford. I just
8400
1 thought it was important that Senator Stafford
2 is trying to explain this piece of legislation
3 and there are some members here that don't have
4 the legislation on their desk.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: I was told -
6 let's make sure that -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
8 Senator, I'm informed that it's at the back of
9 the black binder on each member's desk.
10 SENATOR STAFFORD: The
11 legislation is on the back of the desk, part of
12 the desks. This is something maybe I can be
13 helpful as everyone is getting this. When
14 people say, Do you have every single bill on
15 your desk in Albany, you do, right -- right in
16 front, so that's always interesting for people
17 to know.
18 I don't think enough -- one
19 situation, I could go on and on, but I'll sort
20 of conclude. Here's an example of a clean-up,
21 for instance, the St. Lawrence-Ontario
22 Commission is, in effect, transferred to the Tug
23 Hill Commission, and I think that makes a great
8401
1 deal of sense.
2 A great deal of work went into
3 this. I compliment all who have made it
4 possible, and I will be certainly more pleased
5 to -
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse
7 me, Senator Stafford. If I might, the bill
8 that's under debate is Bill Number 5336, if that
9 will help some of the members find their
10 copies.
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
13 you for your indulgence, Senator Stafford. You
14 may proceed with your explanation.
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: You do not
16 have to apologize, Mr. President. I was in the
17 process of sitting down.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
19 you, Senator Stafford.
20 Senator Paterson, why do you
21 rise?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
23 the problem is that over here on some of the
8402
1 bills, the calendar number was marked 1189 and
2 not 1153, which was the calendar number that you
3 have and that's what caused the confusion.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
5 you, Mr. -- Senator Paterson. I appreciate your
6 assistance in resolving it.
7 Please read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 362.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
14 to explain my vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
16 Saland to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
18 during the course of these budget negotiations,
19 there was considerable concern about not only
20 the block grants but the block grants for
21 children's services, but also the language that
22 would effectuate that block grant and there was
23 great concern expressed in many quarters about
8403
1 the lack of flexibility in the language inasmuch
2 as counties were going to be -- find themselves
3 in a situation in which there were less dollars
4 available to them by reason of the block grants
5 and, in fact, flexibility became an imperative
6 for them.
7 There were a series of
8 negotiations that include -- which involved not
9 only both houses and the Governor's office but
10 also NYSAC, the New York State Association of
11 Counties, and NYSAC has provided a letter or a
12 memo which -- in which they express their
13 concerns about the initial proposal and how they
14 are satisfied that the maintenance of effort
15 requirements that are in this bill are
16 satisfactory to them and to their membership
17 inasmuch as they believe that there's language
18 in this bill regarding the waiver of the child
19 preventive maintenance of effort language that
20 is flexible enough provided that the -- that the
21 Commissioner's regulations, in fact, embody that
22 flexibility and if I sound somewhat equivocal
23 that's because the nature of that endorsement
8404
1 seems somewhat equivocal; and let me just
2 suggest to you, Mr. President, that the language
3 -- and I call particular attention to pages 141
4 and 142, which deal with the subject of the
5 waiver, talk in terms of, and here I quote:
6 "The Commissioner may waive or reduce the
7 maintenance of effort requirement for preventive
8 services upon a showing by the local social
9 services district that a substantial change in
10 circumstance results in the maintenance of
11 effort requirement causing a substantial risk of
12 harm to the health and safety of children in the
13 district. The Commissioner shall establish in
14 regulation the standard for showing a
15 substantial risk of harm including the effect
16 the waiver and the reduction of maintenance of
17 effort would have in the delivery of preventive
18 services."
19 Now, NYSAC is satisfied and has
20 stated it in a memo, and I'll read from that
21 memo: "NYSAC supports the revised language on
22 the clear understanding that it includes all the
23 circumstances covered by the original language
8405
1 and more so Commissioner will be able to grant
2 waivers to enable counties to readjust their
3 resources as needed so that the needs of child
4 protective, adoption and foster care are met
5 while still providing an appropriate level of
6 preventive services. NYSAC trusts that this
7 broad and flexible intent will be reflected in
8 the Commissioner's regulations."
9 I merely caution that notwith
10 standing the memo, that NYSAC has provided the
11 memo as referred to as accompanies this bill,
12 the language that is in this particular portion
13 that I just read does not necessarily imply that
14 flexibility, and it's the accompanying memo that
15 provides that flexibility and it certainly
16 remains to be seen whether a court would give
17 the same interpretation were this to be
18 challenged to provide the necessary flexibility
19 that NYSAC seems to feel is here, but if they're
20 comfortable, Mr. President, I certainly am not
21 about to deny them their request that this be
22 enacted, and I certainly will vote in support of
23 this measure.
8406
1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
2 Saland -- Senator LaValle is recognized.
3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President,
4 to explain my vote.
5 I would like to begin my remarks
6 by congratulating the -- the Higher Education
7 staff for having worked very, very diligently in
8 making major restorations to the higher
9 education account and in this piece to the
10 student financial aid that so many of our
11 students are dependent on, that maintains New
12 York State as a state that continues its
13 commitment to provide access and choice for its
14 students to attend a post-secondary institution
15 of their choice.
16 Not only were major restorations
17 made for the tuition assistance program, but
18 also for the aid to part-time students and a
19 continuation of awards for graduate students and
20 even a new program that really reworks the
21 supplemental tuition assistance program to
22 ensure that those students who need remediation
23 prior to attending a post-secondary institution
8407
1 will have all that they need to get a good
2 running start on their education.
3 And so what we achieved here was
4 done with a lot of hard work on the part of
5 staff and good firm direction on the part of the
6 members of the Higher Education Committee.
7 So I think we've achieved
8 something here that is very, very positive in
9 maintaining student financial aid and the
10 wherewithal to provide access to our students.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
12 Results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
14 the negative on Calendar Number 1153 are
15 Senators Abate, Dollinger, Espada, Hoffmann,
16 Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Oppenheimer,
17 Paterson, Santiago, Smith, and Stachowski. Ayes
18 44, nays 12.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
20 bill is passed.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
23 believe there's a privileged resolution at the
8408
1 desk by Senator Abate. I ask that the title be
2 read and the resolution adopted.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Abate:
6 Legislative Resolution paying tribute to Marie
7 Enzerillo, in recognition of her purposeful life
8 and distinguished contribution on behalf of
9 Community Board Number 3 in the borough of
10 Manhattan upon the occasion of a surprise
11 luncheon to be held on June 11th, 1995.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
13 Question is on the resolution. All in favor
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 Opposed nay.
17 (There was no response. )
18 The resolution is passed.
19 Senator Skelos, we have some
20 housekeeping if we may.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 would you recognize Senator Paterson.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8409
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 I hope I'm recorded as voting in the affirmative
4 on the last bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
6 Paterson, you were recorded in the negative. We
7 will change it, if that is your request.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: I didn't raise
9 my hand unless I was stretching it.
10 Would you please recognize
11 Senator Jones.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
13 Paterson, are you requesting that you be
14 recorded in the affirmative? So directed.
15 Senator Jones.
16 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President,
17 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the
18 negative on Senate 5336.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Without
20 objection, Senator Jones will be recorded.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
23 at this time could we take up Senator Stafford's
8410
1 bill, Calendar Number 1179, Senate 612.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
3 Skelos, may we proceed with our housekeeping
4 first? I apologize.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: I withdraw that
6 request.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
8 you, Senator Skelos.
9 Senator Rath.
10 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, on
11 page 28, I offer the following amendments to my
12 bill, Calendar Number 895, Senate Print Number
13 2011, and ask that said bill retain its place on
14 the Third Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
16 Amendments received.
17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you.
18 Mr. President, on behalf of
19 Senator DiCarlo, on page 45, I offer the
20 following amendments to Calendar Number 447,
21 Senate Print Number 2419, and ask that said bill
22 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
8411
1 Amendments are received and will retain its
2 place on Third Reading Calendar.
3 Thank you.
4 Senator Skelos. Now, if we may
5 proceed.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 would you call up Senator Stafford's bill,
8 Calendar Number 1179, Senate 612.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
10 Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1179, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an
13 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
14 in relation to the siting of industrial
15 hazardous waste facilities.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
19 Stafford, an explanation has been requested.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
21 I appreciate this bill coming up. We passed the
22 bill last year. I will explain, I think, some
23 very meticulous circumstances, and I think most
8412
1 people will understand.
2 There is a debate whether we
3 should go into the Hudson and dig up the PCBs
4 and put them in a landfill. There are some
5 people who argue, and I'm going to get into some
6 chemistry here, so don't hold me to the
7 exactness but some say that there are materials
8 that you can put in this sludge, leave it in the
9 river and it will, in effect, change the
10 molecules, change the material and you no longer
11 will have PCBs. I believe it's a bacteria.
12 Also they say that you can use it.
13 Studies are being made on this
14 throughout the nation on this because it's a
15 very serious problem because you have industrial
16 areas where we have left PCBs, and I've often
17 said that it's a problem, no question about it,
18 because these mistakes were made by individuals,
19 by communities and by industry. I think
20 together they have to be corrected.
21 Now, the plan was, and I think
22 there is still a plan, but we hope you'll never
23 see it, they were going to dig up all these PCBs
8413
1 in the Hudson, in the Glens Falls-Fort
2 Edward-Hudson Falls area, and they were going to
3 go and dig a landfill and put them right in the
4 middle of a nice dairy country.
5 Now, this really made a lot of
6 sense. We were -- that's right. We were
7 definitely, definitely having a good situation
8 here where people weren't really, in my opinion,
9 thinking it out. Now, people had lived with the
10 problems of PCBs in this area. We've been
11 working on it, but when they were told that they
12 were going to collect them all and then just
13 dump them right here in your beautiful
14 Washington County, in the dairy area where your
15 cows are, where your hay is, where your grass
16 is, you can see that people were concerned.
17 Well, they even decided where
18 they were going to put the landfill, and the
19 landfill was going to be in Fort Edward, and
20 many of us said it's ridiculous to dig up the
21 PCBs out of the Hudson, put them in a barge,
22 take them to Fort Edward and put them in a
23 landfill where they can be PCBs right there in
8414
1 the nice dairy country, and actually -
2 actually, Mr. President, we submit that it did
3 not, and it does not make sense and what we're
4 saying here before and I also want to stress
5 this, there are authorities in the field that
6 explain that a river like the Hudson, you don't
7 dig up the sludge, stir it all up, because the
8 sludge and the PCBs, the first thing we know are
9 going to be down in, I won't mention any city
10 because I wouldn't want you to have these PCBs,
11 but they might even get into the great harbor of
12 New York, and I don't think that's what we want
13 and this is what officials have said.
14 So this bill would state that
15 that landfill would not be in Fort Edward unless
16 it was approved by the officials of Fort
17 Edward. We're now working with a number of
18 officials, but the plan that's in effect, Mr.
19 President, I suggest does and did not make sense
20 and I think the people of Fort Edward have a
21 right to say that they don't want how many -- I
22 haven't got any of my people -- how many
23 millions of tons of this sludge dumped in their
8415
1 town.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
5 Leichter.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
7 this bill may be good politics, but it's
8 terrible law. The Legislature should not give
9 any community this sort of a veto power for the
10 siting of landfills or the siting of hazardous
11 waste facilities, particularly so when, after
12 all the hazardous waste that we're talking about
13 was generated in that particular community. But
14 it's just not something for the Legislature to
15 do.
16 Let me tell you, there isn't a
17 town, a city or within a city or community
18 that's willing to take on any of the onerous
19 facilities, onerous services that are required
20 if this society is going to function and, if you
21 give everybody a veto power, you're never going
22 to be able to put it anywhere in this state.
23 We have a mechanism to make
8416
1 decisions that are going to be difficult for
2 some communities but in the long run have to be
3 made for the benefit of all the people of the
4 state of New York. The county, whether it's the
5 county in this instance or the state, has to
6 decide where that landfill is going to be. I
7 certainly hope they will have local input, but I
8 do not agree that we can allow local veto
9 power.
10 As far as Senator Stafford's
11 ideas whether or not you should dredge up the
12 sludge and the PCBs, there's been a lot of
13 debates about that in the scientific community.
14 There's view -- views both ways. I don't think
15 we have the answer. I don't think Senator
16 Stafford has the definitive answer, but that's
17 really not the issue.
18 The issue is that this town
19 cannot be given veto power and say don't put
20 this in our community, even though it, I believe
21 I'm correct, Senator Stafford, the PCBs came
22 from plants that were located in Fort Edward.
23 We've seen this bill before. I trust we'll see
8417
1 it again next year. It's one of the regurgitat
2 ing bills, but it's worth pointing out the
3 problem that we have with it and why I find it
4 difficult in this instance to support somebody
5 that I very much admire, but I can't support
6 Senator Stafford on this bill.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
8 the last section.
9 Senator Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
11 President. I don't know if I have an objection
12 to this bill continuing to come up. It's
13 something that the sponsor believes in and so
14 he's going to keep bringing it up, hoping that
15 it becomes law, and those of us who oppose it
16 are going to keep opposing it because we don't
17 think it should become law.
18 I don't think there's a real
19 procedural problem here, but I think that there
20 is a problem with the precedents that the bill
21 sets.
22 Senator Stafford is probably
23 right. It doesn't make any sense to take PCBs
8418
1 out of the river and dump them on a dairy farm
2 which is an uncontaminated portion of land and
3 is one that has a vital use and certainly does
4 not need to be disturbed. But the General
5 Electric Corporation is really responsible for
6 the waste, is talking about leaving the PCBs in
7 the river, just leaving them there, and although
8 some of them have probably entrenched themselves
9 in the bottom of the river and to dig them up
10 might upset the water column by stirring them up
11 again, the fact that it really absolves the
12 corporation of any responsibility to just take
13 the position that the PCBs should be left in the
14 middle of the river.
15 The Environmental Protection
16 Agency and the Department of Environmental
17 Conservation are working jointly to try to find
18 a place to -- to make this clean-up, but I just
19 hope that we are not in the Legislature
20 practicing perhaps the same naive sort of lack
21 of recognition of what a problem really is.
22 The PCBs came out of plants, as
23 Senator Leichter pointed out. They cause cancer
8419
1 in animals. They are hazardous. We can't eat
2 the fish in the Hudson because of them. This is
3 just a menace that is going to continue to grow
4 and although on other pieces of legislation some
5 of my colleagues are fond of saying we want to
6 bring business back into the City, I mean into
7 the state, that may be true, but I'm going to
8 tell you if we contaminate this state much more,
9 there won't be any opportunity for business to
10 flourish, because we will be very well versed in
11 our economic development and dying from the
12 hazardous diseases that are caused by this
13 waste.
14 So I don't really know where the
15 site should actually be, but I think that the
16 enabling of this town of Fort Edward to just
17 reject it out of hand without the environmental
18 impact statement or the classic state overview,
19 I think, opens up to a serious precedent and
20 then we have a battle over who has the greatest
21 political strength in connection with the reject
22 of the hazardous waste dump from coming into
23 their neighborhood.
8420
1 Inevitably what we probably
2 should do is have the same type of benefit
3 packages that we have when we put prisons in
4 their neighborhoods and then the neighborhoods
5 will fight over the facilities, so I think that
6 what we really need to do is take a very strong
7 look at what we're doing to our environment,
8 what we've done to our river and try to work
9 collectively to, as a state, find a way to
10 ameliorate this problem.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
12 Oppenheimer, do you wish to speak?
13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. Thank
14 you, Mr. President.
15 This bill, while -- I think
16 Senator Leichter said it was regurgitating. I
17 think what he meant to say is it's regurgitated;
18 it comes back at us each year, so it may be
19 regurgitating too, but there's a problem with
20 this, as I can conceive of no area in the state
21 of New York, indeed probably anywhere, that
22 would say yes, yes, please come and establish a
23 facility within our borders. It's simply not
8421
1 going to happen.
2 We have to find a hazardous waste
3 area. There has been some progress made, I know
4 in the recent months in different ways of
5 capping it, which I think will lead us within
6 the relatively short term to an answer to this
7 problem, but to consider the possibility of a
8 single town saying we will not site it, is just
9 unreasonable, unrealistic, won't happen, and I
10 would like to mention the 18 people last year
11 who voted against this bill. They are Connor,
12 Espada, Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz,
13 Montgomery, Nanula, Ohrenstein isn't here,
14 Onorato, Santiago, Smith, Solomon, Stachowski
15 and Stavisky, and on the other side of the aisle
16 Jess Present and no longer John Daly, but there
17 are a lot of speakers who understand this simply
18 is not a reasonable bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
20 Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, ever so briefly on the bill.
23 This is an instance, Mr.
8422
1 President, when we give away our power, we may
2 give away our ability to solve the problem. If
3 we tell the town of Fort Edward that they have
4 the ability to veto our choice as an acceptable
5 site, we'll have to give this power to every
6 other community that we ever try to locate
7 anything in, whether it's a solid waste landfill
8 or a hazardous waste landfill or a low level
9 radioactive waste facility or a truck transfer
10 station for the DOT or a highway or an airport
11 or a radio tower. Suddenly we'll have a state
12 which doesn't function like a state, but
13 functions like a little confederation of
14 communities, something akin to the Articles of
15 Confederation which this country once had in
16 place but decided no, we got to wipe that out
17 and have a federal government that has the power
18 to make federal decisions.
19 We have a state that has the
20 power to make state decisions. I think we only
21 balkanize this state if we give to the local
22 communities the ability to say, nope, we don't
23 want to follow the state policy. You've got to
8423
1 come to us first to get our approval. When we
2 give away our power to make those decisions, we
3 will never get it back, and we won't be able to
4 solve the state's problems, whether they be PCBs
5 or anything else.
6 I think that this has some
7 tremendous appeal for local communities, but it
8 makes bad, bad public policy for this state.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
10 Mendez.
11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I
12 for one do believe enormously on the responsi
13 bility that the state of New York and on the
14 citizens as well should have in preserving the
15 environment. After all, we all do know that the
16 planet earth has become a very small place and
17 the rate of pollution that is going on
18 throughout the world, especially in Third World
19 countries where our corporations do go and
20 really practically destroy beautiful areas.
21 Concerning this specific bill, I
22 am going to support it. I'm going to support it
23 because it is about time that the Department of
8424
1 Environmental Conservation starts reviewing its
2 policies so that it would not engage any longer
3 in -- in environmental racism.
4 My district was the recipient of
5 environmental racism and even though every
6 single aspect of the process was followed to the
7 end, the feelings, the real needs pertaining to
8 the health of an area that is heavily populated,
9 that was of no concern whatsoever, and I think,
10 I have the feeling that really, the -- if these
11 agencies would engage in reviewing these poli
12 cies as it relates to people in the different
13 communities, they would have to conclude that
14 they have been very misguided and that those
15 areas and neighborhoods where they perceive the
16 people are weak in political power, they just go
17 on, go there like bulldozers and -- and place
18 whatever facility they want to place.
19 I, for one, feel better by having
20 in this instance the people of Fort Edward have
21 a say in this situation. It's a terrible
22 problem that we're facing with the PCBs and the
23 cleaning of the Hudson River area, but I say
8425
1 that corporations also must be held responsible
2 if they -- if they mess up the environment, Mr.
3 President. They should be forced to pay for
4 the -- for the clean-up, but in this instance, I
5 will be once more supporting this bill.
6 Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll. )
14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
15 the negative on Calendar Number 1179 are
16 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada,
17 Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula,
18 Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago and
19 Stachowski. Ayes 42, nays 14.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
21 bill is passed.
22 Senator Nanula, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR NANULA: Mr. President,
8426
1 I'd like to request unanimous consent to be
2 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
3 1153.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without
5 objection.
6 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
8 Secretary will read. Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 would you call up my bill, Senate Calendar
11 Number 1182, Senate Number 2259A.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: 1128, by Senator
15 Skelos, Senate Print 2259A, Executive Law, in
16 relation to directing the Division of Criminal
17 Justice Services.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
19 Senator, I believe I heard an explanation
20 requested.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator
22 Paterson, did you request an explanation of this
23 bill that is being supported by the League of
8427
1 Women Voters of Westchester?
2 In New York State, Senator
3 Paterson, about 200 women are killed each year
4 by a male partner and an untold number of others
5 commit suicide as a means of escape. Many of
6 these victims have had contact with the legal
7 system. Their cases hold valuable information
8 on where weaknesses lie within the system.
9 This bill will direct DCJS to
10 establish an independent fatality review board
11 to review these cases involving deaths of
12 victims of family offenses. The fatality review
13 board would examine the cases of the victims of
14 domestic violence who had intervention from the
15 criminal justice system which would allow the
16 board to identify where the system or process
17 could be improved to prevent further tragedy.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Will
19 the Secretary please read the last section.
20 Secretary will be happy to read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect July 1st.
8428
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
2 the roll.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The
5 bill is passed.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 is there any housekeeping at the desk?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I
9 believe Senator Kuhl has some, Senator Skelos.
10 Senator Kuhl.
11 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
12 President, I wish to call up my bill, Senate
13 Print Number 3909A, recalled from the Assembly,
14 which is now at the deck.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 745, Senate Bill Print Number 3909A, an act in
19 relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,
20 county of Chemung, to transfer a section of
21 Diven Park.
22 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I
23 now move to reconsider the vote by which the
8429
1 bill passed the house.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
3 the roll on reconsideration.
4 (The Secretary called the roll on
5 reconsideration.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Offer up the
8 following amendments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
10 Amendments received.
11 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr.
12 President, I wish to call up my bill, Print
13 Number 4218, recalled from the Assembly which is
14 now at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218, an act
19 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,
20 county of Chemung, to transfer park land.
21 SENATOR KUHL: Move to reconsider
22 the vote by which the bill passed the house.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call
8430
1 the roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
5 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I
6 offer up the following amendments.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
8 Amendments received.
9 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
11 Skelos, we have a substitution.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the
13 substitution.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 12,
15 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge from the
16 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 7395,
17 and substitute it for the identical Calendar
18 Number 485.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS:
20 Substitution ordered.
21 Senator Skelos, that completes
22 the calendar. What is your pleasure?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time,
8431
1 there will be an immediate Conference of the
2 Majority in Room 332 of the Capitol and if we
3 could all like run over there, it would be good,
4 and the Senate -- yes, Senator Paterson.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator
6 Paterson why do you rise?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: If we could
8 all run over there. That would really be
9 different.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: That means
11 everybody is going to be running.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: But for those
13 who feel they might be revered at a Conference
14 of the Minority in Room 315 -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: There
16 will be an immediate conference, immediate
17 conference of the Majority in Room 332 and -
18 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
19 stand at ease.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: And
21 there will be an immediate meeting of the
22 Minority in Room 315. The Senate will stand at
23 ease.
8432
1 (Whereupon at 3:35 p.m., the
2 Senate stood at ease.)
3 (Whereupon, at 5:21 p.m., the
4 Senate reconvened.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Senate
6 will come to order.
7 Senator Bruno.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
9 Can we at this time take up Calendar Number 351.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 351, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1553B, an act
14 making appropriations for the support of
15 government.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
17 Is there a message at the desk?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes,
19 Senator Bruno, there is.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we take the
21 message up at this time.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: All in
23 favor of accepting the message of necessity,
8433
1 indicate by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Those opposed, nay.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The message is accepted.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
13 bill is passed.
14 For those who wish to know, that
15 was the Aid to Localities bill.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
18 Senator Leichter.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: There seems to
20 be some confusion here. Was the bill that just
21 passed the Aid to Localities?
22 Was there a bill passed? Was it
23 Aid to Localities?
8434
1 Mr. President, would you -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It was
3 Calendar Number 351 on the regular calendar.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
5 President. Could you tell us what the number
6 is?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Just
8 one moment, Senator Dollinger. Senator Leichter
9 had the floor.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Could
11 you give us the title of that bill, please?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: "An
13 act making appropriations for the support of
14 government."
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Was that item
16 350?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: That
18 is Calendar Number 351, Senate Print Number
19 1553B.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Was that the
21 local assistance budget?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes,
23 it is, Senator.
8435
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I make a
2 motion we reconsider the vote by which the bill
3 passed. I don't think it's a good idea to pass
4 this while most of the members are not in the
5 house.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
10 would like to reconsider the vote on Calendar
11 351.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: On
13 Calendar 351, call the roll on reconsideration.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 351,
15 Budget Bill, Senate Print 1553B, an act making
16 appropriations for the support of government.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
18 bill is laid aside temporarily. It is before
19 the house and laid aside.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
22 Senator Paterson.
23 (Whereupon, there was a pause in
8436
1 the proceedings.)
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
4 Senator Paterson.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: If you want,
6 we can call up the bill and have an explanation,
7 as long as -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
9 bill is before the house.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: -- as long as
11 the explanation has, you know -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Are
13 you requesting an explanation, Senator?
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, as long
15 as it's at least a scintilla -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: I'm
17 sorry, Senator, I can't hear you.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: -- of the
19 length that this bill would take to read it; in
20 other words, to allow members to come in.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
23 Senator Bruno.
8437
1 SENATOR BRUNO: It's now 5:30.
2 We have been one hour and 45 minutes in
3 conference or in recess. We have a lot of work
4 to do tonight, and it's time to get on with the
5 work that is before us in this chamber so that
6 we can finish our work at a normal hour.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
8 Chair recognizes the wisdom and the efficacy of
9 the Majority Leader's statement.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 Senator Leichter, do you have a
13 comment to make on the bill? The bill is on the
14 floor.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: I do, Mr.
16 President. Thank you, Senator Bruno.
17 I just think it is unfortunate
18 that this bill is being considered while the
19 chamber is really empty, and my purpose in
20 reconsidering the vote was because I know that
21 there are people who have concerns about this
22 bill.
23 It is perfectly true that we have
8438
1 conferenced it for the last hour. That may seem
2 like a lot of time, but this happens to be a
3 very, very large bill. It happens to be of
4 enormous significance to each and every person
5 in the State of New York. I appreciate, Senator
6 Bruno, that you probably have dealt very
7 intimately with all the provisions of this bill
8 and for a long period of time, almost 68 days
9 beyond April 1, and I don't mean to make light
10 of it because I know you have worked hard to get
11 this accomplished as you see appropriate.
12 However, some people saw it in a
13 different fashion, away; but the fact is that
14 this bill again was done, as bills of this
15 nature have been done in past years, in secrecy,
16 and then the bill is brought out. It was
17 brought out two hours ago, and to intimate that
18 people should be ready to vote on it at 5:30 and
19 should be fully familiar with the provisions of
20 the bill is, obviously, on the face of it, an
21 absurd proposition.
22 I could go on at some length. I
23 have expressed my views of this budget. I think
8439
1 it is a disaster. I think this just continues
2 in the same vein. I appreciate that, mainly
3 through the efforts of the Assembly, there have
4 been some restorations so that the pain that's
5 being inflicted on the people of the state has
6 somewhat been mitigated, but there isn't a
7 community in this state that is not going to
8 suffer as a result of this budget and, of
9 course, the centerpiece of this budget, which
10 has driven it and which is, I believe, a
11 colossal mistake, is that multi-year tax cut.
12 I was at a luncheon today with
13 Professor Steve Gold of the Nelson Rockefeller
14 Institute and a professor at SUNY, and probably
15 the nation's biggest and -- or major expert on
16 state finances, and I asked him. I said,
17 "Steve, is there any other state in this nation
18 that presently or at any time has ever had these
19 multiple year tax decreases," and he said,
20 "None." He said, "Some have had two-year tax
21 decreases." He said, "But the only one that
22 ever had a major four-year tax decrease was New
23 York State," and that was in 1986 and we know
8440
1 what a disaster that was.
2 But to have any sort of a tax
3 decrease at a time when our finances are in such
4 disarray is, I think, a terrible mistake and, of
5 course, it reflects itself in failing to provide
6 the assistance and the help and the support that
7 we need to, to people in this state.
8 I'm just going to talk about one
9 area, an area that has concerned me very much,
10 and that is the New York City school aid to
11 education budget, where this city, the real
12 engine of economic growth -- and I know you
13 often hear the word, "engine of economic growth"
14 but it certainly is the city of New York -
15 where we, year after year, get shortchanged in
16 education aid, and this year it is even more so
17 because the city of New York is looking to an
18 increase in school population of approximately
19 25,000 people.
20 Now, the Governor froze school
21 aid. That means, in effect, a significant
22 decrease for the city of New York. There has
23 been some restoration, I believe a total of some
8441
1 $82 million, to account for increased school
2 population. There's also been a change, as I
3 understand it, in the Excellence In Teaching
4 Program, so we now have another program that
5 drives a small amount of additional monies to
6 our schools.
7 But the result is that the city
8 of New York is getting an amount which is not
9 going to account for the increase in school
10 population, and, as a consequence, that
11 percentage, that deficit, if you will, that the
12 city of New York had between the percentage of
13 students and its percentage of school aid is
14 going to grow even greater in relation to other
15 parts of this state.
16 I think we could have done better
17 for the people of the state of New York. We
18 gave them a lot of slogans. They got a lot of
19 slogans in the campaign. Unfortunately, some of
20 these slogans were carried on into this budget,
21 and what we see is a budget that fails the
22 people of the state of New York.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
8442
1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
3 President. We certainly concur with the
4 Majority that we have got to and have had to for
5 the last 65 or 66 days move this budget. It's a
6 responsibility that we have to our constituents,
7 the residents of New York City and -- New York
8 State -- excuse me -- and the taxpayers of New
9 York State, the people who provide the broad
10 revenue basis from which government can
11 operate.
12 And we would just like to remind
13 the Majority that we are always willing to begin
14 the sessions when the Majority is, and we have
15 people here who are available if we're just told
16 that we're going to begin a session or come back
17 from recess or whatever it is that we want to do
18 and, as long as that's understood, that it's
19 customary that we have representation from both
20 sides of the aisle, then we can go ahead and
21 move this bill, Mr. President.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Read the last
23 section.
8443
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call
6 the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
9 Results.
10 Negatives, please put up their
11 hands so they can be seen at their seats,
12 please, if possible.
13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
14 the negative on Calendar 351 are Senators Abate,
15 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Markowitz,
16 Nanula, Oppenheimer, Santiago and Stachowski.
17 Ayes 48, nays 10.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Bruno.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
22 Can we call for an immediate meeting of the
23 Finance Committee in Room 332, and that to be
8444
1 followed by an immediate meeting of the Rules
2 Committee in the same room.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
4 Immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
5 Room 332 to be followed up by the Rules
6 Committee in the same room.
7 Senator Bruno, I'm advised we
8 have some housekeeping motions. May we do that
9 at this time?
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Take up the
11 housekeeping at this time, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
13 Senator DiCarlo.
14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 On my bills, please remove the
17 sponsor stars, Calendars 447, 449, 864.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So
19 ordered.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: On behalf of
21 Senator Rath, please place a sponsor's star on
22 Calendar 1155.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So
8445
1 ordered.
2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
3 on page 31, I offer the following amendments to
4 Calendar 933, Senate Print 3875A, on behalf of
5 Senator Nozzolio, and ask that the bill retain
6 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So
8 ordered.
9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
10 I wish to call up a bill, Print Number 3119,
11 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the
12 desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1041, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3119, an act
17 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
19 Senator DiCarlo.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President.
21 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
22 bill was passed.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
8446
1 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
6 bill is before the house.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President.
8 I now offer the following amendments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
10 Amendments are received.
11 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
12 on behalf of Senator Sears, I wish to call up a
13 bill, Print Number 210C, recalled from the
14 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
16 Secretary will read it.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 230, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 210C, an act
19 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
20 disseminating indecent material.
21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
22 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
23 bill was passed.
8447
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
7 I now offer the following amendments.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
9 Amendments are received.
10 Senator Smith.
11 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr.
12 President. On page number 22, I offer the
13 following amendments to Calendar Number 763,
14 Senate Print Number 2286A.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
16 Amendments are received.
17 SENATOR SMITH: And I ask that
18 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading
19 Calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So
21 ordered.
22 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
8448
1 Senator Oppenheimer.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
3 like to vote on Calendar -- what is it?
4 Calendar Number 351.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It's
6 Calendar Number 5 -
7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
8 like to be in the affirmative, not -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It's
10 Calendar Number 350 -
11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 351, and I
12 would like to be recorded in the affirmative,
13 not the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN:
15 Senator Oppenheimer is to be recorded in the
16 affirmative. Without objection, so ordered.
17 (Whereupon, there was a pause in
18 the proceedings.)
19 Senator Bruno. Senator Bruno, is
20 it your pleasure to have the body stand at ease
21 awaiting the reports?
22 SENATOR BRUNO: May we at this
23 time stand at ease at this time, Mr. President,
8449
1 awaiting the report of the Finance Committee and
2 Rules Committee, which should be momentarily,
3 five minutes, ten minutes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The
5 Senate will stand at ease awaiting the reports
6 of the Finance and Rules Committees.
7 (Whereupon, at 5:40 p.m., the
8 Senate was at ease until 5:50 p.m.)
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator
11 Skelos.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: I believe there
13 is a report of the Rules Committee at the desk.
14 Could we please have it read.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY:
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
18 from the Committee on Rules reports the
19 following bill directly to third reading:
20 Senate Print 5337, by the
21 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the
22 Education Law, in relation to state aid to
23 school districts and post-secondary
8450
1 institutions.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator
3 Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
5 stand at ease.
6 Before we stand at ease, would
7 you recognize Senator Stavisky.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator
9 Stavisky.
10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Without
11 objection, on Calendar 351, Aid to Localities,
12 may I be recorded in the negative.
13 Thank you.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Without
15 objection.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Without
17 objection.
18 The Senate will stand at ease.
19 (Whereupon, at 5:55 p.m., the
20 Senate was at until 5:59 p.m.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator
22 Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
8451
1 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Did you
2 accept the report of the Rules Committee?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: All
5 those in favor of accepting the report of the
6 Rules Committee, signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 All opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 The report is accepted.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please
12 read the title of the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1176, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
17 Print 5337, an act to amend the Education Law,
18 in relation to state aid to school districts and
19 post-secondary institutions.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
21 Is there a message at the desk?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Yes,
23 Senator Skelos, there is.
8452
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept
2 the message.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: All in
4 favor of accepting the message of necessity,
5 signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 All opposed, nay.
8 (There was no response.)
9 The message is accepted.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill
11 aside temporarily.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Lay the
13 bill aside temporarily.
14 (Whereupon, at 6:01 p.m., the
15 Senate was at ease until 6:10 p.m.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
17 Senate will come to order.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please
22 call up Calendar Number 1111, by Senator Saland.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
8453
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an
4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
5 relation to special relief in matrimonial
6 actions.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: May we have a
8 brief explanation?
9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: An
11 explanation has been asked for.
12 Senator Saland.
13 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 Mr. President, this bill is in
16 response to the Hartog decision by the State
17 Court of Appeals. Basically, it endeavors to
18 create a mechanism whereby in a matrimonial
19 action there is, either by way of stipulation or
20 order, a requirement that a party provide life
21 insurance and if that party fails to provide
22 life insurance for the benefit of support or
23 maintenance, this bill would enable the party
8454
1 who had the benefit of the court order or of the
2 situation to file a lien against the estate of
3 the party who failed to provide the insurance as
4 required by order or which was included in a
5 stipulation or a separation agreement as part of
6 the order.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
8 Will Senator Saland yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
10 Senator Solomon, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: I would like to
12 know if Senator Saland will yield to some
13 questions.
14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
15 President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
17 Senator Saland yields.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you.
19 Senator, I have spoken to staff, and I have
20 heard the part about the court -- the parties
21 seeking a lien if they don't provide that.
22 I have a couple of questions
23 regarding this.
8455
1 (A) is, this directs the court
2 actually to grant a lien against the estate if
3 the party can't purchase that insurance policy,
4 so if the party has cancer, the court can now -
5 SENATOR SALAND: Can I ask you to
6 speak into your mike? I'm really having a
7 little bit of a difficult time picking you up.
8 Maybe it's the noise around here. I apologize.
9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, the
10 bill doesn't specifically say that the party can
11 go into court and seek a lien. It says that the
12 court, in fact, can direct a lien to be placed
13 again the estate.
14 My questions are this. If the
15 party remarries -- life insurance is a product
16 that we purchase and, if you have cancer, it's
17 impossible to purchase life insurance, in many
18 instances, or you have to spend large sums of
19 money because it's an actuarial product -- an
20 actuarially-based product.
21 My question is this: We have the
22 right of election in this state and, in fact,
23 two years ago or four years ago, we passed a law
8456
1 which included life insurance policies within
2 the right of election by our spouse. If a party
3 remarries, will not this affect the right of
4 election of the second spouse?
5 SENATOR SALAND: Let me just
6 backtrack first. There's only one set of
7 circumstances under which this particular bill
8 would become applicable. You have been in
9 court. An order has been entered, based upon
10 the facts and circumstances of your case,
11 directing you to pay support; or you have
12 willingly entered a stipulation or a separation
13 agreement which survives and is not merged in
14 your decree; and, thereafter, you have an
15 obligation, an obligation to provide an
16 insurance policy, an obligation to provide
17 support, whatever the obligation may be, and you
18 choose not to do it.
19 There is no mechanism to enforce
20 that right and obligation under the existing law
21 if that person dies. What this is saying is,
22 you will now have the opportunity to file a lien
23 against the estate. When it comes in to the
8457
1 estate process, what will then happen will be
2 the Surrogate's Court will -- you would have to
3 file a notice of claim. The Surrogate's Court
4 will determine the equities. Which comes first,
5 the obligation which you entered perhaps before
6 you were remarried to provide that support, or
7 the right of election? That would be for the
8 Surrogate's Court to determine.
9 The right of election is not
10 being abandoned or banished. It's basically
11 being juxtaposed with this lien which is going
12 to basically create the obligation that should
13 have been fulfilled and was never fulfilled way
14 back when you were in court or signed that
15 stipulation.
16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
17 will the Senator yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
19 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The
23 Senator yields.
8458
1 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, would
2 this section that's being placed into law
3 prevent an individual from gifting away his
4 entire estate before he passes away?
5 SENATOR SALAND: That's an
6 interesting question. I don't believe that this
7 quite addresses that problem, although I think,
8 in equity, the argument certainly could be
9 raised that the gifting away was with the intent
10 to defraud, and certainly whoever the donee of
11 that gift might find a trust imposed upon it.
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
13 if Senator Saland will yield again?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
15 Senator continue to yield?
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, what
18 I'm concerned about is, what you are saying, in
19 effect, if there is a judgment and there's
20 equitable distribution and Spouse A is given
21 $100,000 and Spouse B is given their equitable
22 share and Spouse A then finds out he or she has
23 cancer and can not purchase that insurance
8459
1 policy, that equitable share that Spouse A
2 received could technically have an additional
3 freeze put on it and they can't transfer it and
4 use that asset as an individual.
5 SENATOR SALAND: No. What I'm
6 saying is, in that case, that your individual,
7 if they want to comply with whatever the
8 obligation of either the separation agreement or
9 stipulations or court order that renders that
10 requirement, they can purchase an annuity. They
11 don't merely have to go into the insurance
12 market. If they want to abide by the obligation
13 imposed upon them, they can do that without
14 jeopardizing any other person to whom they might
15 want to make a gift or any other person who
16 might get the benefit of their estate.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator
18 continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
20 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
8460
1 Senator continues to yield.
2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Is there any
3 other instance that you are aware of where the
4 courts can generally provide a lien, a future
5 lien, against an estate before someone has
6 passed away? In effect, this is a lien before
7 someone has passed away.
8 SENATOR SALAND: I can't tell you
9 that I am aware. I'm not aware. I do not
10 know. There may or may not be but, again, this
11 person who -- whose well-being you're concerned
12 with is a person who, number one, has been
13 involved in an action; number two, as a result
14 of that action, that litigation, he or she has
15 been required by the court to make certain
16 payments or to commit to providing an insurance
17 policy.
18 In the alternative, that person
19 has entered a written agreement, either by way
20 of stipulation or a separation agreement, saying
21 that they would do that very thing, and people
22 relied upon that as part of that agreement.
23 Why in the world should that
8461
1 person who voluntarily either made that decision
2 or a court balancing the equities arrived at
3 that decision -- why should that person not be
4 bound by either the decision or the stipulation
5 when we are talking about support, particularly
6 when it's support of children that you helped
7 bring into this world?
8 SENATOR SOLOMON: On the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
10 Senator Solomon, on the bill.
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: I think that,
12 when you listen to some of the statements
13 Senator Saland is making, yes, it sounds like
14 it's very fair, but the case that arose out of
15 this, the individual had prostate cancer. It
16 wasn't something that he went out and said,
17 "Well, I've got prostate cancer. Now I don't
18 have to fulfill the obligations for child
19 support."
20 I'm sure it's something he didn't
21 seek. I'm sure anyone in this situation didn't
22 go out and seek to get ill enough so that they
23 couldn't purchase insurance.
8462
1 But what concerns me is if this
2 person had never been involved in a separation
3 agreement and/or a divorce, he still wouldn't be
4 able to purchase that insurance product and
5 there's not going to be a lien against that
6 estate, and we're getting into a situation where
7 what we are doing is creating -- we're trying to
8 solve one piece of litigation, and we're going
9 to create additional litigation because, surely,
10 we're going to have situations where there are
11 additional spouses -- or second spouses, and
12 that question is going to come before the
13 Surrogate's Court: "How come you have a right
14 to affect my right of election?"
15 And what really concerns me is
16 some of the hidden -- some of the possible
17 interpretations of this. Is the next step to
18 freeze one's assets because one is unfortunate
19 enough to have become ill?
20 We changed the law on insurance
21 policies last year or in the last two years,
22 where you can now buy policies, and insurance
23 companies can pay those policies to you before
8463
1 you die when you are terminally ill so you can
2 pay medical bills, and that individual that
3 becomes extremely sick may want to use some of
4 that money to pay medical bills.
5 I'm worried we're getting down a
6 course here -- in fact, proceeding down a course
7 where that individual, in fact, may not have
8 health insurance because it's difficult to
9 purchase health insurance if you are terminally
10 ill, and may want to use some of his assets to
11 pay his medical bills.
12 Now, I'm just warning everyone in
13 this Legislature we're trying to resolve one
14 problem, but, in fact, we could be creating
15 other problems which, in fact, could be very
16 inequitable. We could, in fact, be denying
17 someone who is terminally ill the dollars which
18 they have in their liquid assets, which they
19 were awarded under equitable distribution, to
20 pay for medical bills, let alone the situation
21 that's going to happen vis-a-vis the second
22 spouse, if there is a second spouse, regarding
23 the right of election.
8464
1 That problem about medical bills
2 was something that was done two years ago to
3 allow insurance companies to pay an individual a
4 portion of that life insurance when he was
5 terminally ill, so he could use it for
6 additional medical bills, or whatever, before he
7 dies or she dies.
8 I'm just urging everyone to take
9 a second look at bills such as this and other
10 things and what we're doing; and, in fact, we
11 could have a real adverse impact in certain
12 situations, and I'm sure we're going to have
13 additional litigation as a result of this piece
14 of legislation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
23 Announce the results.
8465
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
2 Senator Solomon recorded in the negative.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 will you call up Calendar Number 1176, Senate
8 5337.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
10 Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1176, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Bill 5337, an act to amend the Education Law, in
14 relation to state aid to school districts and
15 post-secondary institutions.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read
17 the last section.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
19 President, may we have a brief explanation to
20 make sure we got the right bill? This is the
21 language bill that goes with the school aid; is
22 that correct?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
8466
1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
2 Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just for a
4 brief explanation to make sure I have the right
5 bill in my hand.
6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
8 Senator Tully.
9 SENATOR TULLY: This is the
10 Article 7 bill dealing with aid to education.
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you,
12 Senator.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 140.
16 This act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
21 Announce the results.
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
23 to explain my vote.
8467
1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
2 Senator Stavisky, to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Not all parts
4 of the state of New York are equally situated
5 with regard to needs, with regard to pupils,
6 with regard to wealth or lack of resources.
7 Accordingly, it's important to note when there
8 are new students, additional numbers of
9 students, entering a school district who are not
10 provided for with sufficient resources in order
11 to carry out educational programs, I think there
12 is an injustice here.
13 Not only does the formula, as
14 always, fail to consider the special needs of
15 urban areas, such as the city of New York, with
16 regard to education but even the increase in the
17 number of pupils is not recognized adequately.
18 There are new children coming into the school
19 system in New York City. Many come in with
20 special handicapping conditions, not only
21 physical and emotional handicapping conditions
22 but limited English proficiency where, through
23 no fault of their own, they came from parts of
8468
1 the world which were not English-speaking, so
2 they have to overcome that difficulty and they
3 have to overcome, in many cases, poverty and
4 dysfunctional family relationships.
5 Accordingly, I would have
6 expected, and I think any fair person would have
7 expected that the school aid portion would at
8 least give to the city of New York in terms of
9 the admittedly imperfect school aid formula,
10 recognition for all of the additional pupils
11 that are entering that system, and yet, while
12 there is a partial recognition of that fact, the
13 city of New York is capped in the reimbursement
14 that it receives for new additional pupils, and
15 that is a double injustice.
16 It is an injustice that, in many
17 respects, starts with Washington, D.C., with the
18 House of Representatives. It is perpetuated in
19 the budget that was submitted by the Governor of
20 this state, and, in some respects, it is
21 reflected in the already limited resources
22 available to the city of New York through the
23 funding that is provided at City Hall.
8469
1 I don't think we should be a
2 participant to this kind of discrimination
3 against children who are coming into our
4 system. We want them to be educated, we want
5 them to become productive members of society,
6 and we are not doing that with this
7 legislation.
8 For that reason, I wish to be
9 recorded in the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
11 Senator Stavisky in the negative. Announce the
12 results.
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would just
14 like to explain my vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
16 Senator Stafford.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Not that it's
18 that important, but this is the first time in 30
19 years I've explained my vote, but I can't
20 believe that my learned colleague from that
21 great city, Queens -- of Queens -
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: (Comments
23 inaudible.)
8470
1 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, not
2 "queen."
3 And then who had the honor and
4 did that great job as Chairman of Education in
5 the Assembly would say here this evening, first,
6 that the aid is capped. It is not.
7 I will make that clear. It is
8 not capped. So I make that very clear, and I
9 would also point out that New York City gets the
10 growth aid of last year and gets growth aid for
11 this year, a combination. So I'm sure we want
12 to have the record straight.
13 And I think this is a piece of
14 legislation -- there is no question that some
15 people, some of us, some members, some Senators,
16 others, would like to see things that aren't
17 here, possibly would like to see things not here
18 that are here, but that is the way, and under
19 the circumstances of this year, I would suggest
20 that this is an excellent document.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
8471
1 the negative on Calendar 1176 are Senators
2 Abate, Dollinger, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz,
3 Nanula, Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky. Ayes
4 49, nays 9.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The
6 bill is passed.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 the Senate will stand at ease until 7:45 sharp.
10 Is there any housekeeping at the
11 desk?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
13 Senator Farley.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
15 myself, I would like to amend this bill. On
16 page 31, I offer the following amendments to
17 Calendar -- that's page 34, Calendar Number 987,
18 Senate Print 4580, and I ask that that bill
19 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
21 Amendments received and adopted.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will
8472
1 stand at ease until 7:45 p.m. sharp.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
3 Senate will stand at ease until 7:45 sharp.
4 (Whereupon, at 6:30 p.m., the
5 Senate recessed.)
6 (The Senate reconvened at 8:13
7 p.m., for the following announcement.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senate will come to order.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
12 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room
13 332 of the Capitol.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 There will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
16 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol.
17 (Whereupon, at 8:13 p.m., the
18 Senate was at ease until 8:35 p.m.)
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
21 will come to order.
22 The Chair recognizes Senator
23 Skelos.
8473
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
2 Could we return to reports of standing
3 committees. I believe there is a report of the
4 Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be
5 read.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
7 return to reports of standing committees. I ask
8 the Secretary to read the report of the Rules
9 Committee.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
11 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
12 following bills:
13 Senate Print 2854, by Senator
14 Solomon, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law
15 and Rules, in relation to fees for referees;
16 1622, by Senator Lack, an act to
17 amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to
18 assessments;
19 1674, by Senator Stafford, an act
20 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
21 ovarian cancer;
22 2511, by Senator Hannon, an act
23 to amend the General Municipal Law and the State
8474
1 Finance Law, in relation to the release of
2 payments;
3 2721, by Senator DiCarlo, an act
4 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
5 to payment of taxes;
6 2782, by Senator Larkin, an act
7 to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law, and
8 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
9 denying driving privileges;
10 2785, by Senator Babbush, an act
11 authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its
12 interest in certain real property;
13 3247, by Senator Paterson, an act
14 to authorize the City of New York to release its
15 interest in and to reconvey to its former owner
16 certain real property;
17 3663A, by Senator Velella, an act
18 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
19 provisions for motor vehicle insurance rates;
20 3817A, by Senator Velella, an act
21 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
22 extending the expiration date for Article 54;
23 3853A, by Senator Leibell, an act
8475
1 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
2 to the powers of the State of New York Mortgage
3 Agency;
4 3954, by Senator Velella, an act
5 to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle and
6 Traffic Law, in relation to licensing of auto
7 repair body estimators;
8 4287, by Senator Spano, an act to
9 amend the Local Finance Law, in relation to
10 bonds issued by act of the Westchester County
11 Board of Legislators;
12 4356, by Senator Tully, an act to
13 amend the Public Health Law in relation to the
14 New York State Innovation in Breast Cancer Early
15 Detection And Research Awards Program;
16 4671, by Senator Trunzo, an act
17 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
18 to clarifying the status of employees;
19 5177, by Senator Leibell, an act
20 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
21 to the rehabilitation of certain multiple
22 dwellings;
23 5239, by Senator Hannon, an act
8476
1 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
2 utilization review agents;
3 5249, by Senator Stafford, an act
4 to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm
5 certain acts and proceedings of the Town Board,
6 Planning Board, Zoning Board of Appeals and
7 certain agents and employees of the town of
8 Kingsbury;
9 5254, by Senator Seward, an act
10 to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to
11 mobile home parks;
12 5264, by Senator Padavan, an act
13 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
14 possession of gambling devices;
15 5271, by Senator Maltese, an act
16 to amend the Election Law, in relation to write
17 in voting at primary elections;
18 5356, by Senator Hoblock, an act
19 to amend the Public Officers Law and the
20 Executive law, in relation to activities by
21 former state officers and employees;
22 All bills ordered directly for
23 third reading.
8477
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
4 If we can take up Supplemental Calendar Number
5 2, noncontroversial.
6 I'm sorry. First, we have to
7 move to accept the Rules report.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 motion is to accept the Rules report.
10 All those in favor, signify by
11 saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (There was no response.)
15 The Rules report is accepted.
16 Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: If we can take
18 up the Rules report, Supplemental Calendar
19 Number 2, noncontroversial.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will call the noncontroversial calendar for
22 Supplemental Calendar Number 2.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8478
1 1189, by Senator Solomon, Senate Print 2854, an
2 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,
3 in relation to fees for referees.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
5 will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1190, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1622, an act
16 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
17 to assessments resulting from a small claim
18 proceeding.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
21 bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1191, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1674.
8479
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1192, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2511, an
6 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the
7 State Finance Law, in relation to the release of
8 payments.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo
13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Local
14 Government Assembly Bill Number 1473 and
15 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
16 1193.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read
19 the title.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1193, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg,
23 Assembly Print 1473, an act to amend the Real
8480
1 Property Tax Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1194, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2782, an
6 act to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law
7 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
8 denying driving privileges.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush
13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
14 Assembly Bill Number 4675 and substitute it for
15 the identical Calendar Number 1195.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
17 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read
18 the title of Calendar Number 1195.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1195, by Member of the Assembly Perry, Assembly
21 Print 4675, an act authorizing the City of New
22 York to reconvey its interest in certain real
23 property.
8481
1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
3 a home rule message at the desk. The bill will
4 be laid aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1196, by Senator Paterson.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number
11 1197, by Senator Velella.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
13 aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1198, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3817A.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
19 aside.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
21 the day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside for the day.
8482
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1199, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3853A, an
3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
5 aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is high. Lay the bill aside for the day.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1200, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3954, an
10 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle
11 and Traffic Law.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
13 aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1201, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4287, an
18 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation
19 to bonds issued by act of the Westchester County
20 Board of Legislators.
21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
22 aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
8483
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1202, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4356, an
4 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
5 to the New York State Innovation in Breast
6 Cancer Early Detection and Research Awards
7 Program.
8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
9 aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: 1203, by Senator
13 Trunzo, Senate Print 4671, an act to amend the
14 Public Authorities Law, in relation to
15 clarifying the status of employees.
16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
17 aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1204, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5177, an
22 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
23 relation to the rehabilitation of certain
8484
1 multiple dwellings.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1205, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5239, an
7 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
8 to utilization review agents.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
10 aside, please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1206, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5249, an
15 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm
16 certain acts.
17 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1207, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5254, an
22 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation
23 to mobile home parks.
8485
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
2 aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1208, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5264, an
7 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
8 possession of gambling devices.
9 SENATOR KRUGER: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
11 high. Lay the bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1209, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5271, an
14 act to amend the Election Law.
15 SENATOR KRUGER: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is high. Lay the bill aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1210, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5356, an
20 act to amend the Public Officers Law and the
21 Executive law.
22 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8486
1 Skelos, we have a message of necessity at the
2 desk on Calendar Number 1210.
3 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept
5 the message.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
7 to accept the message of necessity.
8 All those in favor, signify by
9 saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 Opposed, nay.
12 (There was no response.)
13 The message is accepted.
14 Lay the bill aside.
15 Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
17 If we could take up the controversial calendar
18 now.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the controversial calendar commencing
21 with Calendar Number 1190.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8487
1 1190, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1622, an act
2 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
3 to assessments resulting from a small claim
4 proceeding.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Lack, an explanation of Calendar Number 1190 has
7 been asked for by the Acting Minority Leader,
8 Senator Paterson, and I believe a couple of
9 other members.
10 Senator Lack to provide an
11 explanation.
12 SENATOR LACK: Right. Mr.
13 President, this bill would end the anomaly if a
14 taxpayer receives a higher assessment in the
15 year immediately following a successful tax
16 grievance -- the finality is necessary to
17 establish the assessment base, and any challenge
18 to the assessment applies only to the assessment
19 established for a given tax year, and this bill
20 over a three-year cycle would even everything
21 out.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson.
8488
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
2 would Senator Lack yield for a question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Lack, do you yield?
5 SENATOR LACK: Certainly.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 yields.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Lack,
9 I think I just didn't happen to hear the last
10 part of what you were saying. You said it ends
11 the anomaly that's existed in the past. I'm
12 just trying to figure out what has existed in
13 the past.
14 SENATOR LACK: Well, if the
15 assessment is reduced, the determination will
16 not be entered until after the taxable status
17 for the taxable year that's challenged. The
18 reduced assessment will also be effective for
19 the first assessment roll subsequent to the
20 challenged assessment roll.
21 The tax system and the procedures
22 to challenge the tax assessments are unique,
23 Senator, in that they are tied directly to the
8489
1 annual budget process for local municipalities.
2 Because of this annual cycle and to establish
3 tax record finality, it is necessary to
4 establish the assessment base.
5 The problem that develops stems
6 from the failure of the court to schedule
7 assessment hearings to the present tax year
8 before the tentative assessment roll is
9 completed for the following tax year.
10 For example, in the town of
11 Smithtown, 120 taxpayers failed to have their
12 1992-93 tax hearings until after May 1st, 1993.
13 They then receive a reduction in their '92 -- in
14 their '93 assessment, but the reduction was not
15 subsequently reflected onto their '93-94 tax
16 bill. This bill rectifies that problem and
17 allows it to go back to the tax roll that was
18 affected.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: So in other
20 words, you are covering for -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Lack, do you continue to yield?
23 SENATOR LACK: I continue to
8490
1 yield, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 continues to yield.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: So you are
5 actually making up for the period of time dating
6 back from the most recent filing to the time
7 where the discrepancy actually occurred, which
8 could be somewhere up to three years.
9 SENATOR LACK: That's correct,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. So
14 then, in other words, a tax assessment for one
15 year would never throw the whole cycle out of
16 balance. If you can go back three years, you
17 are going to cover any type of activity that
18 occurred relative to the -- either -- the
19 challenge to the actual assessment?
20 SENATOR LACK: That's correct,
21 Mr. President.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
23 Senator. Thank you very much.
8491
1 SENATOR LACK: You're welcome.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
3 recognizes Senator Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have a few
5 questions, Mr. President, to the sponsor.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Lack, do you yield to Senator Dollinger?
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
10 understand this, Mr. Chairman, how does this
11 make up for the lost revenue that would occur
12 when the assessment roll is changed? I assume
13 that the town or the community has already made
14 its planning based on a certain amount of
15 assessed valuation. If there's a reduction in
16 the total assessed valuation, that would
17 theoretically drive the property tax rate up for
18 other properties to make up for the shortfall in
19 revenue.
20 Can you just explain to me how
21 that works?
22 SENATOR LACK: It doesn't. Mr.
23 President, it doesn't. It's not designed to.
8492
1 It's designed to help the taxpayer, not the
2 municipality.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So
4 what does the municipality do for the loss of
5 revenue that's occasioned upon the reduction in
6 assessments to a particular taxpayer?
7 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President.
8 One would hope the municipality would spend
9 less, I mean if it really comes down to that.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again,
11 through you, Mr. President. If there were
12 $10 million in the budget, they calculate what
13 they need on a property tax rate based -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- on a
17 certain valuation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Dollinger, excuse me just a minute. Senator
20 Lack, I notice, is having a difficult time
21 hearing you. It is very noisy in the chamber.
22 So if members want to have a conversation
23 amongst themselves, I would ask that they take
8493
1 their conversations out of the chamber; and if
2 staff feel the necessity for having a
3 conversation, please take it out of the
4 chamber. Have a lot of bills to do, a lot of
5 work yet to do, a lot of conversation yet to be
6 had.
7 Thank you, Senator Dollinger, for
8 the interruption.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 I just want to understand. How
12 does the community make up for the shortfall in
13 revenue if the assessment roll is already
14 established and the tax rate is already
15 established, as well?
16 SENATOR LACK: I don't think it
17 will, Senator Dollinger. It depends upon the
18 impact in any particular locality, but that
19 impact shouldn't be made off of the backs of the
20 taxpayer who has legally and correctly -
21 correctly challenged and won a reassessment of
22 whatever his or her assessment is for that
23 period, and not to get the refund or the
8494
1 reassessment base back on the tax year for which
2 the locality has collected the money is wrong
3 for the taxpayer.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section, please.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1191, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1674, an
18 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
19 to ovarian cancer.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1191
23 has been asked for by Senator Paterson.
8495
1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
2 President. This bill concerns a disease that I
3 know something about. I assure you that it was
4 not of my own making, or it wasn't my choice.
5 This bill will provide for the dissemination of
6 material concerning ovarian cancer.
7 There are many things about this
8 disease that are important to know, and I do not
9 say to you that I'm an authority; but, as I say,
10 I have been exposed. Early detection -- no
11 matter who you talk with about this disease -
12 that's one of the reasons we should have
13 physicals at least once a year, as some will
14 say, "whether we need it or not."
15 I suggest we need it. I think
16 this is something that is extremely worthwhile.
17 It is provided for in the budget, and this
18 legislation will implement what has been
19 provided for in the budget.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
23 Senator Stafford.
8496
1 Mr. President, on the bill.
2 That explanation was quite
3 satisfactory. Senator Stafford has waged quite
4 a war on this issue, legislatively in this
5 chamber and also personally. I know that all
6 the members of the chamber and staff members and
7 his friends, like myself, admire him for the
8 work that he has done on the issue, and this is
9 a fine bill.
10 I was going to ask a question
11 about fiscal impact, but when you realize the
12 value of early detection, as Senator Stafford
13 just said, there really -- whatever the fiscal
14 impact is, it can't, in any way, be too much to
15 spend on something that can prolong and allow
16 life to flourish.
17 Thank you.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One question
19 to Senator Stafford.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Dollinger?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8497
1 yields.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, just
3 an unusual term that I hadn't heard before. On
4 page 2, line 19, it says, "All female patients
5 in the 40 and above age cohort." What does that
6 mean, "above age cohort"? It's an unusual term
7 to use there. It's just a drafting question.
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: What line,
9 please?
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Line 19. It
11 uses the term "cohort," and I just ask you what
12 that means there.
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, I
14 compliment you for reading the bill well.
15 I can be stumped very easily.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was.
17 That's why I ask.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: I always lose
19 when I play whatever game it is that tests your
20 vocabulary.
21 Well, I say this -- category, I
22 say. Category.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's fine.
8498
1 I just didn't see the term before.
2 No further questions, Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
5 last section, please.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect on the first day of
8 January.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1192, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2511, an
17 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the
18 State Finance Law, in, relation to the release
19 of payments.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
22 Senator Hannon, an explanation has been
23 requested by Senator Paterson.
8499
1 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation
2 is designed to ensure that when payments are
3 made on a municipal contract and there are
4 subcontractors whose subcontracts are above
5 $25,000 that the payments shall be made in
6 regular order as soon as they have been
7 certified to the subcontractors.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Read
9 the last section.
10 Senator Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: If the sponsor
12 will yield for a question?
13 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
14 President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, is
18 there a time limit on this?
19 SENATOR HANNON: No. It's a
20 functional time limit because municipal
21 contracts or state contracts there will be
22 periodic payments made and so that, instead of
23 putting an absolute time payment, it talks about
8500
1 a formula, so that as soon as each of the line
2 items are certified by the owner as being
3 completed, then there will be a payment
4 relatively promptly to the subcontractor.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: My question,
6 if Senator will continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
8 Senator Hannon, do you continue to yield?
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, do
11 you think that the certification, the fact that
12 it is in the bill, is, in a sense, a de facto
13 time limit of and in itself, meaning that the
14 subcontractor will not be paid almost
15 automatically based on the fact that we have now
16 codified this whereas, in other situations, the
17 subcontractor might have been paid immediately?
18 SENATOR HANNON: No.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Just no?
20 SENATOR HANNON: No, I don't
21 think so.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay, "No."
23 Thank you.
8501
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Chairman.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
3 Senator Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
5 sponsor yield for just a question?
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Senator Hannon,
7 do you yield?
8 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The way I
12 understand this bill, Mr. Chairman, is that the
13 -- the owner would be required upon
14 certification from the subcontractor to pay the
15 retainage according to the subcontractor's line
16 item.
17 My question is, my understanding
18 of most retainage accounts held with respect to
19 subcontractors or with respect to general
20 contractors for the owner, the owner holds the
21 retainage on the whole deal not just on a line
22 item, and I have -- in my personal experience,
23 I've seen very few subcontractor agreements in
8502
1 which there is a specific amount of the
2 retainage applied to a line item in the
3 contract. The retainage is usually held as the
4 big club at the end.
5 And so my question is what
6 evidence do you have that retainage is now held
7 in specific line items for subcontractors as
8 suggested on page 2, lines 9 through 13, in the
9 bill?
10 SENATOR HANNON: The various
11 information supplied to me by the subcontractors
12 in this state, by subcontractors in different
13 parts of the state, Tonawanda, Dutchess and
14 Ulster, Capital District here, Capital District
15 again. Those would be the indications that I
16 have that it's being done and I would presume
17 that, unless it was being done, they wouldn't
18 see the need to offer it.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the
20 bill briefly, Mr. President.
21 I'm going to vote in favor of
22 this. I think it's a good idea. I'm not
23 convinced -- and I appreciate the chairman of
8503
1 the Health Committee giving me that information,
2 but my understanding, at least in the practice
3 in my part of the state, is that the retainage
4 account is held as a big tool, the big hammer,
5 that gets the subcontractor or the general
6 contractor to perform all the terms of the
7 contract, and they're not usually divided into
8 line item -- line item portions for the
9 retainage account.
10 So I think it's a good idea, but
11 the problem must not have come as far as Western
12 New York yet.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
14 Senator Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
16 President. I have one last question for Senator
17 Hannon if it's -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
19 Senator Hannon, do you yield?
20 Senator Hannon yields.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
22 Hannon, the merit of this bill is undoubted, and
23 I'm going to vote for this bill. Generally,
8504
1 what the subcontractors, I guess, are probably
2 trying to do is they want to get paid at the
3 rate that the general contractors are, and
4 that's fine. The subcontractors traditionally
5 were paid at the end of the job; and, here, what
6 we would be doing is we'd be making it possible
7 for them to be paid sooner.
8 All I'm asking is, wouldn't this
9 accrue a great deal more responsibility on the
10 state, when we look at the fact that the state
11 is going to have to issue a lot more checks,
12 there's going to be a lot more paperwork; and if
13 there is a dispute between the contractor and
14 the subcontractor, then the state is basically
15 involved in the dispute even though the state is
16 not a party to the dispute?
17 SENATOR HANNON: I really don't
18 think so. The current nature is that there is
19 to a fair extent an excess withholding and
20 there's already the dispute. There will be
21 already questions of liens being filed by the
22 subcontractors who, despite their name as
23 subcontractors, are not necessarily the small
8505
1 corporations or partnerships or entities that we
2 may think of as, you know, doing work in a
3 house. These are some major steel suppliers and
4 different major trades.
5 So there's already probably an
6 inordinate amount of paperwork and litigation
7 connected with any big project. I think this
8 would just substitute one part of it for another
9 and work some fairness that's not there now.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, Mr.
11 President. That very well clears up the
12 confusion.
13 Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO:
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: The
23 bill is passed.
8506
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1193, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg,
3 Assembly Print 1473, an act to amend the Real
4 Property Tax Law, in relation to payment of
5 taxes in installments.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President.
8 This bill is to provide low-income elderly with
9 the relief from rising real property taxes.
10 What happens now, if you are on SSI and your
11 income, your money in the bank is over a certain
12 amount, you become ineligible for SSI. What
13 this bill allows local governments to do is to
14 allow those individuals to pay their real estate
15 taxes in four installments so that they don't
16 fall and have more money so they would lose
17 their SSI benefits.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
21 if the sponsor would yield?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 DiCarlo, do you yield?
8507
1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 yields.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
5 DiCarlo, thank you very much for taking my
6 question.
7 Is this an optional matter for
8 the localities or is this something that each
9 local government will be automatically placed
10 in?
11 SENATOR DiCARLO: This is local
12 option.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: This is local
14 option. The quarterly payments, I assume, are a
15 convenience suiting the available amount of
16 money that exists for the individuals who are
17 eligible?
18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Absolutely.
19 What this says, if -- what happens is, they save
20 up enough money to pay their taxes, and that
21 will then put them over the amount that they are
22 allowed to keep and thus creating a problem in
23 losing their benefits. So this is for -
8508
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. So as
2 they pay down, they can keep the amount under
3 the ceiling.
4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: All right.
6 Thank you very much, Senator.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
8 will read the last section.
9 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 LaValle.
12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Would Senator
13 DiCarlo yield to one question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 DiCarlo, do you yield to Senator LaValle?
16 SENATOR DiCARLO: Absolutely.
17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator
18 DiCarlo, just -- I'm going to support the bill
19 so I just want to preface my statement. One of
20 my concerns is more of a technical nature rather
21 than a substantive nature, in the fact that each
22 of the counties have tax acts. Suffolk County
23 has a Suffolk County Tax Act.
8509
1 My question, really, for the
2 record is whether you have to amend the Suffolk
3 County Tax Act to allow a county to take this
4 particular action rather than give them broad
5 authority to do so?
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: I believe it
7 depends on when the taxes are paid and depending
8 on the county. That's something that -- you
9 know, we look into, also.
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you very
11 much.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1194, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2782, an
8510
1 act to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law
2 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
3 denying driving privileges.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar 1194 has been
7 asked for by Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President.
9 Senator Paterson, this bill would allow the
10 Department of Motor Vehicles to deny driver's
11 licenses to students who are suspended from
12 school for an alcohol or drug-related offense.
13 There are specific summaries -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
17 Larkin?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 yields.
8511
1 SENATOR PATERSON: If that is all
2 that the bill said, then I would agree with it
3 wholeheartedly, but my reading of the bill is
4 that this also applies to school dropouts.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it does,
6 but it's covered very clearly in the bill. If a
7 school dropout has a bona fide reason, he can
8 submit that; and if it's not accepted, he has an
9 appeal process within 15 days.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
14 Larkin would continue to yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Larkin, do you yield?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Senator continues to yield.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Let's turn to
21 the original offense, Senator Larkin. If a
22 person has an alcohol or a drug-related offense
23 driving infraction, then the punishment relates
8512
1 very close to the actual offense because we're
2 talking about the same area. We do not want
3 people who are intoxicated or suffering from
4 some deficiency related to a substance abuse or
5 a person that has some kind of driving record or
6 diminished capacity that causes them to have car
7 accidents on the road.
8 How do you relate the ones -
9 denying the privilege to drive to an individual
10 who would be otherwise eligible based on a
11 problem that they have with school, which is a
12 totally different thing? Even if we didn't
13 accept their particular reason for why they are
14 not in school, the fact is that it doesn't
15 really relate to their ability to operate a
16 motor vehicle.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I
18 think you are making light of what we're trying
19 to do here. One, we don't want young people who
20 have been dismissed from school for drug or
21 alcohol-related offense. That's one.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Right.
23 SENATOR LARKIN: That's part one.
8513
1 SENATOR PATERSON: We agree with
2 that totally.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Part two, we're
4 saying if an individual drops out of school for
5 no reason -- he just doesn't want to go to
6 school any more -- no bona fide reason, that's
7 also a problem for us today. We are talking
8 about young people making sure that they have a
9 responsibility for one another, creativity.
10 We're saying if you drop out of
11 school and you got a bona fide reason, you have
12 to submit it, and then you have the appeal.
13 Let me say, Senator, on this
14 floor there are over 12 states that have this in
15 being today. We have been trying for two to
16 three years on this same bill, and we find that
17 there is nothing wrong in this here. What's
18 wrong with saying to somebody, "You don't want
19 to go to school, fine; let's hear your reason
20 why you don't want to go to school"?
21 Then, there's every reason for
22 them. Last year, the issue was brought up that
23 there is no appeal process. If somebody decides
8514
1 to do that, there should be an appeal. We have
2 amended it. We put in this bill the ability to
3 have an appeal.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Paterson.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
7 President. Senator Larkin, first of all, your
8 including the appeal process is responsive to
9 some of the concerns that were raised, and
10 that's why I'm glad we're having this
11 conversation, because it was from the debate
12 last year that it was decided and you made the
13 ultimate decision to amend the bill, and that
14 really is what I guess validates the Socratic
15 method. I don't know if it validates this
16 process, but we appreciate that you would do
17 that.
18 But what I'm saying, Senator, is
19 suppose a person drops out of school to work,
20 and the appeal process -- we might not think the
21 person should be working. We think they should
22 be in school, but the person has decided that
23 they want to work. If there is a financial
8515
1 hardship to the family, we would probably accept
2 that as a bona fide reason. But this person,
3 maybe they are a star athlete and they got a
4 contract to play professional baseball or
5 something. They've decided they are going to
6 work, and we tell them, "Well, we don't like the
7 fact that you are leaving school," which is a
8 valid concern, and maybe there is a
9 responsibility that we might deem as not being
10 adhered to; but at the same point, our own New
11 York State law says that a person must be a
12 student in a secondary school until age 16.
13 But you have this bill at age 16
14 and 17, and I'm not trying to make light of it.
15 I'm just asking you the question, how can we do
16 that when we have a law on the books that is
17 allowing people who want to leave school at 16
18 to work the opportunity to do that?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: I guess you are
20 asking me, although you said, "On the bill."
21 SENATOR PATERSON: No, no, I was
22 asking you. I'm sorry.
23 SENATOR LARKIN: Okay. Senator
8516
1 Paterson, again, they have an appeal process.
2 If they are not satisfied with that
3 administrative judge's action, they have
4 recourse to a 78.
5 But let's go back to what we're
6 really talking about. You are talking about
7 somebody wants to play professional baseball.
8 We're trying to address the issue of somebody
9 who just wants to walk out of school, and "I
10 don't want to go to school any more."
11 I think that we also have some
12 moral responsibility in this state. We're
13 giving him an opportunity -- if he feels that he
14 has a bona fide reason to drop out of school,
15 Senator, we're giving him that opportunity.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
19 Larkin, do you know that Senator Leichter likes
20 this bill?
21 SENATOR LARKIN: He said to me,
22 "I will not harass you; I like your bill."
23 Am I correct, Senator?
8517
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, before,
2 I just wanted to ask a couple of questions. Now
3 I'm just getting warmed up.
4 (Laughter.)
5 Senator, I like your bill. I
6 like the part that relates to drug and alcohol
7 offenses, but let's take the situation where the
8 individual is claiming financial hardship. They
9 drop out of school, and they want to work. They
10 have to go through this administrative law judge
11 and then they may have to go through the appeal
12 process. They still might lose; but in the
13 meantime, over a period of what might be a
14 month, we have denied them the opportunity to
15 make a living because in many parts of our
16 state, as you know, a person would probably need
17 a motor vehicle to actually perform their job.
18 I'm just saying that the
19 legislation is well merited, and great minds
20 such as yourself and Senator Leichter appreciate
21 the bill and great minds think alike, but maybe
22 a person of diminished capacity like myself
23 might have one point to offer, and the point
8518
1 that I'm just trying to raise to you is the fact
2 that the legislation might be a little over
3 reaching. We might really be infringing upon
4 the rights of individuals who don't finish
5 school, who may actually be doing something
6 worthwhile with their lives, even though it may
7 not be what we might consider to be the best
8 thing that they could do with their life, which
9 all three of us would agree would be to be in
10 school.
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, one
12 final point in the bill. Reading it very
13 carefully, you will find out -- you had said
14 there that we're going to deny him during this
15 process. There is no denying during the
16 process. The individual retains their driver's
17 license until the final action is taken.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: I didn't know
21 that before right now, Senator. I thought that
22 whenever there is an appeal process the person
23 has already lost. In other words, after you
8519
1 have lost the first time, the appeal process as
2 in any kind of an administrative ruling, that
3 the administrative ruling goes into effect, and
4 the reason it has to go into effect is because
5 the entity does not know that the complainant is
6 going to appeal.
7 So if I can just ask one last
8 question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 continues to yield.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Can you verify
15 for me that after the administrative decision
16 and up to the appeal process that the person can
17 still operate the vehicle? Is that correct?
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. I
20 don't see where the bill addresses that. On the
21 bill, Mr. President.
22 SENATOR LARKIN: Line 34 on page
23 2, Senator.
8520
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Line 34,
2 Section 2. Well, I would just say that -- it
3 says when the determination is made.
4 SENATOR LARKIN: On line 33,
5 "When a determination that the student has
6 withdrawn from or been suspended or expelled
7 from school is no longer subject to the appeal
8 to the Commissioner or judicial review, the
9 Commissioner of Motor Vehicles shall deny all
10 driving privileges to such student pursuant to
11 section so and so and so of the Vehicle and
12 Traffic Law until such student attains his 18th
13 birthday."
14 That tells me that he has that
15 license until the final action on his appeal was
16 taken.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: And that tells
20 me the same thing, Senator. I stand corrected
21 and beg your indulgence on that point.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: On the bill,
23 Mr. President.
8521
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson on the bill.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: I certainly
4 thank Senator Larkin for clearing that up. It
5 certainly will not deny an individual the
6 opportunity up until the time the situation is
7 completely -- has completely finished a
8 process.
9 But I would caution those who
10 support the bill that I still think that the
11 bill is somewhat overreaching and, although the
12 merit is quite well founded, I don't really
13 think that we have a right because we are
14 unhappy with individuals and how they are
15 conducting their lives to excessively exact
16 punitive measures on them that don't relate to
17 whatever it is that they are actually involved
18 in.
19 If necessary, Senator Larkin,
20 what I would probably be more interested in is
21 actually raising the age from which we allow
22 people to leave school, more than penalizing
23 them in an ancillary way for the fact that they
8522
1 do. But I thank you for clearing up a couple
2 points that I didn't understand.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
4 recognizes Senator Dollinger.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
6 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple of
7 questions?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Larkin, do you yield to a question from Senator
10 Dollinger?
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Jones
16 and I are over here somewhat perplexed. Does
17 this bill, in essence, increase the age of
18 compulsory education in this state from 16 years
19 to 18 years if you want to drive a car?
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Would you
21 restate your question, please?
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, under
23 current law in the State of New York, as I
8523
1 understand it, you are required to go to school
2 until age 16. After that, you can leave and go
3 any -- you don't have to pursue a course of
4 diploma. You can leave and go do anything you
5 want to do. You're not in violation of any law
6 of the state of New York.
7 My question is if a student
8 decides at age 16 to leave school, as he's got
9 the right to do it under our law, does he run
10 afoul of your bill, give up his right to drive a
11 car?
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, if he
13 doesn't have a bona fide reason for driving.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
15 through you, Mr. President. Under current law,
16 he doesn't need a bona fide reason. He can
17 leave school for any reason at all. We leave
18 that entirely up to him or her.
19 Are we now putting the
20 requirement that in order to both exercise your
21 right to leave school at 16, which we have under
22 current law, and your right to have a driver's
23 license if you pass the test and show your
8524
1 competency as a driver -- are we now adding a
2 third requirement that says you also have to go
3 to school to have a driver's license?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think
5 you are mixing, again, a right and a privilege.
6 To drive a car in this state is a privilege.
7 It's not a right. We're talking about
8 privilege.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr.
10 President, I can understand that.
11 Again, through you, Mr.
12 President, are we putting a new condition that
13 says you have to not only be able to competently
14 drive a car, you now have to be 16 years of age,
15 but you have to be in school, as well? Is that
16 what we're saying?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Not if you have
18 a bona fide reason, the same thing I gave to
19 Senator Paterson, Senator.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
21 through you, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
8525
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's the
3 whole point, Senator. You don't need a bona
4 fide reason now. You can leave school for any
5 reason you want after age 16; correct?
6 SENATOR LARKIN: You still can't
7 drive.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So you
9 now have another requirement. You have to be
10 proficient as a driver; you have to be in
11 school, and you have to be 16 years of age.
12 Two other questions briefly, Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 continues to yield.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, what
21 is the administrative cost to the school
22 districts of this state of filing an attendance
23 form for those who are between 16 and 18, which
8526
1 they are not legally required to do now, and
2 what's the requirement that they keep that
3 attendance, that they notify the Commissioner,
4 that they get involved in the Commissioner's
5 determination because they will be the witnesses
6 who will testify to the fact that the student is
7 no longer in? What is your anticipated cost to
8 the 729 school districts in this state of having
9 to comply with this new unfunded mandate -- or
10 this mandate?
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, the
12 school districts that I talked to, they told me
13 they thought it would be insignificant because
14 their big concern is making sure that the
15 student is in school because aid to school
16 districts is based on attendance, how many
17 students are there.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So -
19 through you, Mr. President -- do you have any
20 kind of -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
23 Senator continues to yield.
8527
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do you have a
2 local fiscal impact note on this?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: No, Senator,
4 because they don't feel it's needed and neither
5 do I.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So
7 we're telling them to do something, but we're
8 not giving them any funds to support their doing
9 it. Is that a fair statement?
10 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't
11 appreciate your statement, Senator. I think
12 what we're trying to do here is to be of
13 assistance to school districts, to individuals.
14 We're trying to add some demeanor of
15 responsibility to them and, if they take on a
16 factor of drugs and alcohol, I think we as
17 legislators have a responsibility of -- as
18 Senator Paterson mentioned, about people driving
19 and drinking.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
21 President, just one final question -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Larkin, do you yield to one more question?
8528
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- for the
2 sponsor.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 yields.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the
6 penalty to a school district -- does he yield,
7 Mr. President?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 yields.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the
11 penalty to a school district to enforce this
12 provision and to get their compliance that they
13 will actually do what you want them to do? What
14 is the penalty?
15 SENATOR LARKIN: No penalty.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So if a
17 school district decides to disregard this,
18 nothing happens?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I
20 think, once again, you're trying to -- in my
21 opinion, Senator, no disrespect, you are trying
22 to belittle something that about 22 other states
23 have done, very successful -- with very
8529
1 successful rates with young people tying two
2 things in, reduction of utilization of drugs and
3 alcohol and keeping young people in school for
4 their own personal benefit not only for today
5 but for their future.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
7 President, on the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Dollinger, on the bill.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If this bill
11 simply did what Senator Larkin described, I
12 would agree with him. If the bill provided that
13 if you were found guilty of a drug offense and
14 expelled from school you would lose your driving
15 privileges, that would make sense. I agree with
16 Senator Paterson, that would make sense.
17 But as I read this bill, it goes
18 a step further than that. It says that if you
19 are over 16 years of age and you decide to leave
20 school for any reason, not drug-related -- you
21 simply decide, "I'm not required to go to
22 school. I don't have to. The law of the State
23 of New York doesn't require me to go to school.
8530
1 I'm not a truant. I have a right as a
2 16-year-old to leave school" -- then if you do
3 leave school, you lose your driver's
4 privileges. That's the part of the bill I don't
5 understand.
6 I think it is an unfunded
7 mandate. I can think of the school districts
8 that I represent who are going to spend oodles
9 of time roaming around trying to take attendance
10 for people they don't necessarily take
11 attendance for, for trying to determine what
12 their bona fide reason for not being in school
13 is, and I can also understand that without any
14 penalty to require the districts to do it
15 they're simply going to look at this and say,
16 "It's another unfunded mandate from Albany; why
17 should we comply with it?"
18 I think there are all kinds of
19 problems with this bill. I think it perhaps
20 needs another think. Under those circumstances,
21 Mr. President, I would be opposed.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
23 recognizes Senator Marchi.
8531
1 SENATOR MARCHI: I think it's
2 excellent. The first part of it is fine, but it
3 may be counterproductive to go that extra mile.
4 That youngster may drive illegally. I have seen
5 -- I shouldn't be even talking about the
6 18-year-old drinking age, but that's another
7 thing where a lot of youth has become very
8 cynical about the law simply because it doesn't
9 correspond with reality, so you have rampant
10 disregard of a law that was functioning well
11 under the circumstances.
12 I'm not sure -- I feel that we're
13 carrying it a bit too far; and, for that reason,
14 I oppose it. I do hope that he preserves that
15 first part of it which is excellent, makes real
16 sense to me.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
18 two other people who want to speak.
19 The Chair recognizes Senator
20 Jones.
21 Senator Jones, before you take
22 the floor. Can we have a little quiet here,
23 please. Senator Leibell, other members, can you
8532
1 take the conversations out of the chamber.
2 Can't hear each other.
3 Thank you.
4 Chair recognizes Senator Jones.
5 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Will the
6 sponsor yield to a question, please?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Jones?
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 yields.
13 SENATOR JONES: Senator, if you
14 will indulge the school teacher in me. I'm
15 trying to figure out how this would work. What
16 would happen, let's say, a student who
17 academically fails, who is asked to leave school
18 for academic failure, is not making the grade.
19 He's failed all his courses at 16, and the
20 school suggests he leaves. What would happen in
21 that case?
22 SENATOR LARKIN: I gather your
23 question is if we have a student who just can't
8533
1 cut the mustard.
2 SENATOR JONES: Correct.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: He can go with
4 that as a bona fide reason. He has the
5 opportunity. It's very clear in there. He can
6 say that I can't -- "I don't have the capacity
7 to learn. I don't have the capacity to study.
8 I can't have a concentration." He can do that.
9 That is his bona fide reason, and he has the
10 appeal process.
11 SENATOR JONES: Would the Senator
12 yield to another question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Larkin, do you yield to another question?
15 The Senator yields.
16 SENATOR JONES: I'm trying to
17 find that in here. I see "personal family
18 hardship." What would that come under, the
19 academic failure?
20 SENATOR LARKIN: When you say in
21 there "personal," Senator Jones, I think there
22 are a multitude of personal reasons, a family
23 hardship, a death in the family, a number of
8534
1 children there, and mental capacity.
2 I can remember when I was growing
3 up, young people dropped out of school because
4 there were seven and eight, nine children, and
5 they helped some of the other children, the
6 younger or the older. That was a valid reason
7 to leave school in those days, and I'm confident
8 that it would be a valid reason by an
9 administrative judge today.
10 SENATOR JONES: Will the Senator
11 yield to one more question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Larkin, do you yield to one more question?
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR JONES: The other thing
16 I'm a little concerned about is, where do the
17 parents enter into this? Let's say, for
18 whatever reason, it's fine with the parents.
19 The child wants to drop out of school. Mom and
20 dad have no objection. I have no idea what he's
21 going to do, but I happen -- not that I approve,
22 but there are families where the child doesn't
23 work and they just leave school with the
8535
1 parents' permission. Do you envision any
2 problem with the parents when the state now
3 steps in and takes their child's driver's
4 license?
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think
6 we ought to go back to the basic premise of this
7 bill. We're trying to encourage young people to
8 stay in school. If that individual decides he
9 wants to drop out and the parents don't care, he
10 can drop out of school, but he's just not going
11 to have a driver's license.
12 SENATOR JONES: To rephrase my
13 question, do you envision that there would be
14 any problem with parents over an issue like this
15 who didn't happen to agree with this ruling of
16 the school?
17 SENATOR LARKIN: It's done.
18 SENATOR JONES: You don't
19 envision lawsuits on the part of the parents or
20 any such thing?
21 On the bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Jones on the bill.
8536
1 SENATOR JONES: You know, I am
2 very supportive of the drug and alcohol piece.
3 I think that's excellent, but I think there's a
4 lot of problems with the issue when we have a
5 law on our books that says at 16 they don't have
6 to stay in school and now we're saying the
7 school not only has to police what happens after
8 that, they are going to have to, you know, take
9 away their driver's license.
10 I think we're really stepping
11 into a problem here. I certainly think we all
12 want the goal of keeping kids in school.
13 There's another issue that I would bring up that
14 I brought up last year on this floor; that I
15 happen to know in the city of Rochester, we have
16 children collecting social services who are
17 showing up one day out of 20, having the paper
18 signed, and are able to collect social services
19 and are not attending school, and here's a
20 person, technically, would be able to have a
21 driver's license even though they are missing 19
22 of the 20 days.
23 So I think there's a lot of
8537
1 things that need to be looked at again as far as
2 just a person who drops out of school. I'm very
3 supportive of the drug and alcohol piece. I
4 think anything we can do to work with students
5 with these kind of problems or take away
6 privileges, or whatever it takes, but I'm very
7 concerned about basically changing another law
8 that's on the books that they do have a right to
9 a driver's license.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect on the first day of
14 November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
19 the results when tabulated.
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar 1194 are Senators
22 Abate, Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger, Farley,
23 Hoffmann, Jones, Kruger, Marchi, Markowitz,
8538
1 Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson, Present, Sears,
2 Seward, Smith, and Wright. Ayes 40. Nays 18.
3 The bill is passed.
4 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
6 Is there a substitution from the Assembly on
7 Calendar Number 350?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is,
9 at the desk. I will ask the Secretary to read
10 the substitution.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
12 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
13 Assembly Bill Number 3051B and substitute it for
14 the identical Calendar Number 350.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, substitution is ordered.
17 Senator Bruno.
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Would you read
19 the title of the bill, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will call Calendar Number 350. We are on the
22 regular calendar.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8539
1 350, Budget Bill, Assembly Print Number 3051B,
2 an act making appropriations for the support of
3 government.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Bruno.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
7 message at the desk?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
9 a message of necessity at the desk, Senator
10 Bruno.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: I move at this
12 time we adopt the message, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 motion is to adopt the message of necessity at
15 the desk on Calendar Number 350.
16 All in favor, signify by saying
17 aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed, nay.
20 (There was no response.)
21 The message is adopted.
22 Secretary will read the last
23 section.
8540
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I see
4 that there's a couple members who would like
5 to -
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Point of
7 order, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can you just
10 tell us which bill this is?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: This is
12 Calendar Number 350 on the first calendar of the
13 day, Calendar Number 61.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does it have
15 a short title, Mr. President?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
17 Legislature and Judiciary Budget.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's a good
19 one, Mr. President. Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Leichter.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
23 I can understand the alacrity with which you
8541
1 called for the reading of the last section, and
2 I think all of us are delighted to see a
3 legislative and judiciary bill before us because
4 it certainly signals that this long, arduous and
5 painful budget process is coming to an end.
6 One may also rejoice as a
7 legislator in the thought that we're finally
8 going to get paid after working 60 days without
9 any pay.
10 But I just wish that we had
11 before us a legislative and judiciary budget
12 that was in proper form, a bill that kept what I
13 thought was the promise that had been made by
14 the new administration that we're really going
15 to turn a new leaf.
16 All we heard after the November
17 election and as this legislative session started
18 is that things are going to be done differently.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Stafford, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize
23 for interrupting my constituent, summer
8542
1 constituent, but I want to get it right here.
2 Now, was an explanation asked for?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, an
4 explanation was not asked for. The Chair
5 recognized Senator Leichter.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: But I will
7 yield. You want to explain the bill, Senator?
8 I'll certainly yield.
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, that's
10 what I was driving at.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right.
12 Sure. Let me yield to you, and I will make my
13 comments afterwards.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Leichter yields to Senator Stafford for an
16 explanation of the bill.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: I thought
18 maybe I could put things in a bit of a different
19 light and speaking of light, I don't want to
20 overdo this; but, again, like many, I have been
21 here for a number of sessions during the budget
22 process and we have certainly seen a lot more
23 light during this session than we've ever seen
8543
1 before.
2 I will just speak generally and
3 then, of course, be glad to answer any
4 questions. I'm sure some will and, of course,
5 Senator Leichter will make his comments. But,
6 you know, I want to be general here. You can
7 all see it.
8 My friends, the spending has been
9 going down here in the Legislature and when
10 there is any rise in any parts of it, it has
11 been less than the Consumer Price Index, and I
12 think we have to explain this.
13 We have a job to do. I know one
14 time I was running, and it was my first time,
15 and someone was saying let's repeal this tax and
16 let's repeal this tax, and I got thinking a
17 minute. Well, it sounds good. I said let's
18 repeal every tax, and I said let's do away with
19 all the fees. Obviously, it made no sense.
20 And, of course, it would make no
21 sense for us to say that we could do our job
22 here without having the proper support and the
23 proper funding. I want to emphasize that
8544
1 revisions are being made, and I believe starting
2 next year there will be itemized expenses for
3 everyone serving in the Senate.
4 Again, I certainly want to
5 emphasize that, actually, we have been spending
6 less, much less, than what the Consumer Price
7 Index as it has risen would provide for and, of
8 course, this is used in many businesses, and
9 it's used very often as a barometer.
10 Let me get into just some
11 specifics, please.
12 The judiciary budget: It should
13 be pointed out that, after a great deal of hard
14 work, many conferences, the Judiciary Committee,
15 the staff, here in the Senate and, yes, the
16 Assembly, there is an $18.1 million reduction in
17 what -- reduction in the General Fund from the
18 Judiciary's request. It's $18.1 million less
19 than was requested.
20 Of this amount, 14.5 million
21 results from the approval of the following
22 Article VII bills -- and I could go down all of
23 them, but they involve the New York City County
8545
1 Clerks, nonjury function, the elimination of
2 mandatory sequestration of deliberating jurors
3 in certain cases -- we're one of the few states
4 that still had this -- a change from two to one
5 in the number of transcripts which must be filed
6 for criminal appeals -- I'm getting into too
7 much detail here -- that save $500,000, a change
8 in the electronic recording devices, how they
9 would be used, and a transfer of jurisdiction of
10 the New York City Administrative Code violations
11 to New York City -- it's criminal court, turn it
12 over to the administrative tribunal, which would
13 save $1 million.
14 There are other savings I could
15 go into, but I think you get the gist of what
16 the judiciary budget is.
17 Now, again, I have mentioned
18 generally the legislative budget. Now, please
19 listen. Our legislative budget, 177 million for
20 fiscal year 1995-1996 is $200,000 less than
21 1994-95. How many areas -
22 Actually, as I say, I could get
23 into specifics more, but I think you understand
8546
1 that a good job has been done here by both
2 houses and by the staffs, and I would submit
3 that it's a good budget.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
5 recognizes Senator Leichter.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
7 I thank my good friend for his explanation,
8 clear and, I thought, telling in the emphasis
9 that he put on the judiciary budget. The
10 judiciary budget, as he pointed out, was $18
11 million less. Then he comes to the legislative
12 budget and says, "Look what we did, $200,000
13 less." But I want to get to that in a moment,
14 Senator, because that was really not the main
15 point that I was trying to make, and let me say,
16 I think that we perform a very important
17 function. We are an equal branch of
18 government. I think that legislators in this
19 house, in the other house, whatever party, they
20 come to work hard, provide an important service,
21 and you can't provide that service unless you
22 have resources, staff, and so on.
23 If you deny legislators staff,
8547
1 you deny a legislator the ability to function
2 because you don't give him or her an office or
3 computer, and so on, that legislator cannot
4 represent his or her constituents, and the
5 Legislature cannot perform its function. So I
6 agree and I make no apologies and I am not
7 ashamed of the fact that we will require certain
8 funds, and I think that, by and large, the
9 expenditures on the Legislature are well spent,
10 but I do think that there is waste within the
11 legislative budget and that we have not taken to
12 the legislative budget the same sort of scalpel
13 -- actually, it was more than a scalpel -- a
14 hatchet that we've taken to so many social
15 programs, to so many governmental programs, this
16 year.
17 But before Senator Stafford got
18 up, what I wanted to talk about -- something
19 I've talked about often in this chamber, and if
20 you are tired of hearing it, I have some
21 sympathy for it, but I think it's terribly
22 important because it really deals with the
23 integrity of this legislature. What has
8548
1 offended me from the very first legislative
2 budget I ever saw, when I was in the Assembly,
3 and that was the fact that the Legislature
4 treats itself differently than it does the
5 Judiciary and the Executive.
6 We exempt ourselves from the
7 rules, the principles, even the laws that apply
8 to other branches of government, that apply to
9 other governmental agencies and authorities. We
10 do not have a detailed budget. We spend a very
11 large sum of money. Whether it's all fully
12 justified or not, it is certainly a very large
13 sum of money and we do not tell the public how
14 we spend that money. That's just wrong. You
15 can't under any circumstance justify that and in
16 the past, as you know, we've put forth
17 amendments to make our point.
18 Earlier this year, when you moved
19 your one house legislative-judiciary budget, we
20 came up with certain amendments. I'm not going
21 to put forth these amendments again. You know
22 what they are. The votes have been recorded,
23 but the point we want to make -- and I want to
8549
1 address it even though this may be the second
2 time around this year on the legislative
3 judicial budget -- is to keep on making the
4 point that we have an obligation to have an
5 honest budget, and this is not an honest
6 budget.
7 Now, Senator Stafford, if I
8 understood him, said, "Well, we're going to do
9 it next year." Next year? Why couldn't we do
10 it this year? What was it that prevented us
11 this year from coming up with a detailed,
12 itemized budget. I've heard some talk, "Well,
13 the computers haven't been programmed," and this
14 and that. I submit to you that that's just not
15 a washable explanation. You certainly could
16 have come up with a much greater detailed budget
17 than we have here.
18 This is a budget even within the
19 broad categories that exist and the vague
20 itemization and the description of what the
21 items are, the Majority Leader and the Speaker
22 are allowed to shift appropriations between this
23 category, so it's no budget at all. It's
8550
1 totally meaningless.
2 I understand that the beginning
3 of this year that when there was an effort to
4 reconstruct what the Senate had spent last year
5 that it was extremely difficult to do, that
6 there were questions -- not that there was any
7 wrongdoing, as such, but that there was not a
8 clear identification of how monies had been
9 spent, and one of the reasons was because there
10 was no standard as to which you could judge how
11 the money was to be spent. You weren't in a
12 position to say, "Well, wait a second, you can
13 spend only so much for postage, you can spend
14 only so much for telephone," because you're able
15 to shift appropriations categories, and I think
16 that we ought to stop that.
17 What I think is particularly
18 unfortunate about the budget this year is
19 because I understood certain commitments were
20 made -- when I say commitments, I don't mean
21 legal commitments, but promises were made, and I
22 think we've moved, Senator Bruno, forward in
23 some areas, but it's more than just starting the
8551
1 Senate on time. It also means having a fair,
2 honest legislative budget, and it means
3 something else. It means also making it clear
4 how the monies are spent and that they are spent
5 in an equitable, in a fair manner as between
6 members of the Majority and the Minority.
7 The disparity in spending that
8 exists is just inexcusable. You don't find it
9 in Congress, but you do find it in the New York
10 State Senate, and let me say, many of the things
11 that I say apply equally to the Majority in the
12 Assembly, but I know at least one thing that the
13 Assembly does is that all members get the same
14 equipment, all members have access to the same
15 resources. That's not the case here. We have
16 some members here who have equipment that is
17 totally antiquated.
18 There is no justification under
19 law and, if necessary, this thing will
20 eventually be challenged in court that members
21 of the Majority can have new computers, laser
22 printers whereas, members of the Minority have
23 to wait for it, and I wish that we would get
8552
1 away from that because it's petty, it's
2 sophomoric. It takes away, I think, from the
3 common purpose that we all have, which is to
4 serve the people of the State of New York.
5 Let me just address the issue of
6 whether the amounts, the total amounts provided
7 in this budget show a real restraint on the part
8 of the Senate, and I wanted to preface my
9 remarks, as I did, that I think we perform
10 important services and, obviously, you've got to
11 pay for these services. But we put forward in
12 the past a budget which shows a significantly
13 lower reduction and provides certainly enough
14 monies in staff and equipment for everyone to do
15 their job. This particular budget, while
16 Senator Bruno has touted the fact that the
17 legislative budget is $200,000 less than last
18 year, the fact is that the Senate budget last
19 year -- if you took a look at the appropriations
20 for 1994-1995 for the Senate, they were
21 $66,679,000. This year the appropriation in the
22 bill before us is $70,049,000. So there is an
23 increase of roughly $3,369,000.
8553
1 Now, part of that is due because
2 some legislative commissions have apparently
3 been folded into the overall Senate appropria
4 tion but the bottom line is that there is an
5 increase. In fact, there has been an increase
6 of $1-1/2 million since we voted at the end of
7 March on your version of the legislative
8 judiciary budget.
9 Our itemized budget has a total
10 appropriation for the Senate of $57 million, to
11 be precise $57,653,000. That is an adequate
12 budget to run the Senate fairly, efficiently,
13 effectively, and our budget lays down how much
14 each member gets, how much each committee gets.
15 It sets forth precisely how much goes for
16 equipment, how much goes for postage, how much
17 goes for telephone. Somebody reading this will
18 say, "I know how the Senate spends its monies."
19 You look at this bill, you have no way of
20 knowing it.
21 Now, you pride yourselves on
22 being fiscal Conservatives, fiscally respons
23 ible. Then don't put forth a budget like this.
8554
1 Can you go and justify to your constituents why
2 the Senate does not disclose how it spends
3 public monies? We never allow the Executive to
4 do that. We insist that the Executive comes up
5 with an itemized budget.
6 In fact, in the same bill, we
7 have a very itemized budget for the Judiciary
8 but, when it comes to the Senate, that's
9 different. We're above the law. We just
10 shouldn't do it, and I would -- I won't say
11 "hope" -- I would expect that next year, we
12 will do the right thing, and these promises of,
13 "This is a new administration, this is a breath
14 of fresh air, we're going to do things
15 differently, we're going to be responsible to
16 the public," would be reflected first and
17 foremost in the legislative budget.
18 Just, in conclusion, let me say
19 that here we are. It's June 7. It's
20 approaching June 8, and we're finally passing a
21 budget, and it's a budget that was put on our
22 desk at the last minute, negotiated among three
23 leaders behind closed doors, very significant
8555
1 important provisions, programmatic changes in
2 the law that the public did not have an
3 opportunity to see, a legislative budget which
4 is not itemized, which is not detailed, which is
5 not subject to the same economies that we
6 demanded of the Executive. If that is a breath
7 of new air, if that is turning a new leaf, if
8 that is a change towards greater responsibility,
9 all that we really have is a lot of words. We
10 certainly don't have any actions.
11 I strongly urge upon all of us
12 that as we pass this budget -- and, of course,
13 it will be passed -- that there be a commitment
14 by us, commitment by all of us collectively that
15 we will have an honest, itemized and reasonably
16 funded legislative budget.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
18 will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8556
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
2 the results when tabulated.
3 Senator Dollinger to explain his
4 vote.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my
6 vote, Mr. President.
7 I share many of the sentiments
8 which Senator Leichter echoed, and I want to
9 applaud Senator Bruno and my Republican
10 colleagues. When Senator Bruno was elected the
11 Temporary President, he did talk about making a
12 new sweep in this house and bringing new tools
13 and new attributes in this house and a change in
14 the way we practice and other things. I feel a
15 little bit like the kid. I've seen the broom
16 sweep the floor, and I look down at the floor,
17 and the floor is clean. The only problem is the
18 dust hasn't settled yet, and I'm still waiting
19 for the dust cloud to sort of work its way down
20 in the kitchen and, when it's finally done,
21 we'll then look at the floor to see whether
22 there is still the old dust on the floor and
23 whether the sweeping actually swept it all up or
8557
1 just put it in a bunch of clouds that eventually
2 settled back down.
3 I am waiting to see the clean
4 floor, Senator, the clean floor that will have
5 an itemized budget, that will have a better
6 distribution of the resources, that will have a
7 tool to allow this house to function even more
8 efficiently. I certainly think that's in the
9 offing. I do want to see how that dust settles
10 down, and maybe we'll settle down next year when
11 we see the fully itemized legislative budget,
12 and we'll be able to decide whether the room is
13 really clean or whether it's just all suspended
14 up in the clouds.
15 I will be voting nay, Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative.
19 Results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar 350 are Senators Abate,
22 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Oppen
23 heimer, Santiago and Smith. Ayes 50, nays 8.
8558
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Bruno.
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
5 Can we call for an immediate meeting of the
6 Finance Committee followed by a meeting of the
7 Rules Committee in Room 332.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
9 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate
10 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference
11 Room, 332. Immediate meeting of the Senate
12 Finance Committee in Room 332, the Majority
13 Conference Room. That meeting will be followed
14 immediately by the Senate Rules Committee
15 meeting in the same room, Room 332. First
16 Senate Finance, then Senate Rules.
17 Senator Bruno.
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
19 Can we ask for unanimous consent to move
20 Calendar Number 536 -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: May we
22 have order in the chamber, please.
23 Senator Bruno.
8559
1 SENATOR BRUNO: We ask for
2 unanimous consent, Mr. President, on Calendar
3 Number 5363, move it directly to third reading.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 objection, Calendar Number 5363 -- it's a
6 pension supplement bill -- will be moved
7 directly to Third Reading Calendar.
8 The Senate will come to order.
9 The Chair will recognize Senator
10 Bruno.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
12 there's some housekeeping things to be done at
13 the desk. We might do them at this time.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a
15 lot of housekeeping, Senator Bruno. We'll
16 return to motions and resolutions.
17 The Chair would recognize Senator
18 Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 Mr. President, For Senator Tully,
22 on page 37, I offer the following amendments to
23 Calendar Number 1107, Senate Print Number 4673,
8560
1 and ask that said bill return its place on the
2 Third Reading Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 amendments to Calendar Number 1107 are received
5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
6 the Third Reading Calendar.
7 Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
9 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page 34, I offer
10 the following amendments to Calendar Number 982,
11 Senate Print Number 26, and ask that said bill
12 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 amendments to Calendar Number 982 are received
15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
16 the Third Reading Calendar.
17 Senator Libous.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
19 President.
20 On behalf of Senator Hoblock, I
21 wish to call up his bill, Senate Print 3108,
22 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
23 desk.
8561
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the title.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 963, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3108, an
5 act to amend the Civil Service Law and others.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
9 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
10 bill was passed.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
13 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call
14 the roll on reconsideration.
15 (The Secretary called the roll on
16 reconsideration.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
21 offer up of the following amendments.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 amendments are received and adopted.
8562
1 Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 On behalf of Senator Cook, I call
5 up his bill, Print Number 2902, recalled from
6 the Assembly which is now at the desk.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the title.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 373, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 2902, an act
11 to amend the Education Law, in relation to
12 authorizing wire transfer.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
16 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
17 bill was passed.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
20 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call
21 the roll on consideration.
22 (The Secretary called the roll on
23 reconsideration.)
8563
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Libous.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
5 offer up the following amendments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 amendments are received and adopted.
8 Senator Libous.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
10 call up Senator Velella's bill, Print Number
11 4112-A, recalled from the Assembly which is now
12 at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Secretary will read the title.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 703, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4112-A, an
17 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
18 investments.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Libous.
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
22 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
23 bill was passed.
8564
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
9 offer up the following amendments.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 amendments are received and adopted.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 We have one more here, sir. On
16 behalf of my colleague, Senator Maziarz, on page
17 37, I offer the following amendments to Calendar
18 Number 1131, Senate Print Number 4435-A, and ask
19 that said bill retain its place on the Third
20 Reading Calendar.
21 ACTING PRESDIENT KUHL: The
22 amendments to Calendar Number 1131 are received
23 and adopted.
8565
1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
2 ease.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senate will come to order.
5 The Chair -
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
7 can we at this time return to reports of
8 standing committees and I believe there's a
9 report from the Finance Committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
11 is. The Chair would just note that prior to our
12 standing at ease there was a request that
13 Calendar Number -- I should say Bill Number 5363
14 go directly to third reading, but the Majority
15 Leader objected to that without the benefit of
16 it going through a Finance Committee, so we had
17 a Finance Committee. Now there's a report at
18 the desk that I'll ask the Secretary to read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
21 following bills:
22 Senate Print 5360, by the
23 Committee on Rules, an act in relation to
8566
1 certain provisions which impact upon the
2 expenditure of certain appropriations;
3 Senate Print 5363, by the Senate
4 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the
5 Retirement and Social Security Law and the
6 Education Law, in relation to supplemental
7 retirement allowances.
8 All bills reported to third
9 reading.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection, the bills will be reported directly
12 to third reading.
13 Senator Bruno.
14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
15 can we now take up Calendar 1211?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the title of Calendar Number
18 1211.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1211, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
21 Bill 5360, an act in relation to certain
22 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
23 certain appropriations.
8567
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Bruno.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
4 message of necessity at the desk, Mr.
5 President?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary informs me that there is a message of
8 necessity at the desk.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: I move that we
10 adopt the message.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion is to adopt the message of necessity on
13 Calendar Number 1211. All those in favor
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye".)
16 Opposed, nay.
17 (There was no response.)
18 The message is accepted.
19 The Secretary will read the last
20 section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 113.
22 This act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8568
1 Dollinger, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this the
3 Aid to Localities language bill?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 113.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
14 the results when tabulated.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
16 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Bruno.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President -
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is this 5360,
22 Mr. President?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That was
8569
1 the bill that was just before the house.
2 Senator Leichter, you will be recorded in the
3 negative along with Senator Dollinger, along
4 with Senator Jones, along with Senator Hoffmann,
5 along with Senator Nanula, along with Senator
6 Stachowski and Senator Abate. Announce the
7 results when tabulated.
8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
9 the negative on Calendar 1211 are Senators
10 Abate, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter,
11 Nanula and Stachowski. Ayes 51, nays 7.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 Senator Bruno.
15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
16 can we at this time take up Calendar Number
17 1212?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
20 1212.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1212, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
23 Print 5363, an act to amend the Retirement and
8570
1 Social Security Law and the Education Law, in
2 relation to supplemental retirement allowances.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Bruno.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
6 message of necessity at the desk?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary informs me that there is a message of
9 necessity at the desk.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we move its
11 adoption at this time, Mr. President?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 motion is to accept the message of necessity to
14 Calendar Number 1212. All those in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response.)
19 The message is accepted.
20 The Secretary will read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
8571
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50...
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
6 the results when tabulated.
7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Can I have my
8 name called?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Hoffmann to explain her vote.
11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President,
12 it troubles me that we're receiving this bill at
13 this hour with so little time to reflect on it.
14 I asked in Finance at what point an agreement
15 had been reached and was informed that at
16 approximately 7:00 o'clock this evening the
17 Governor and the two legislative leaders of this
18 state's legislative bodies came to an agreement
19 without the consent of the Comptroller or the
20 consultation of the Comptroller on this
21 provision.
22 It is now a little past 10:00
23 p.m. this same evening. None of us have had an
8572
1 opportunity to adequately read and review this
2 measure, much less discuss it with those
3 affected pensioners in those districts who would
4 be affected.
5 I'm very concerned about retired
6 police officers, firefighters, teachers, other
7 public employees who very much would like to see
8 and deserve, in some cases, desperately deserve
9 an increase in their pensions, but I'm equally
10 troubled by the fact that there is an apparent
11 raid on a pension fund used to do some other
12 budget balancing.
13 Apparently, $120 million will be
14 going to localities and 110 million will be
15 going to the state from the pension fund by this
16 piece of legislation. That constitutes, to most
17 business people's way of thinking, fiscal
18 gimmickry and it's simply not something that I'm
19 willing to condone and I don't think the people
20 in the 48th Senate District believe that it is a
21 reasonable way for us to be balancing our budget
22 at this late hour.
23 So, reluctantly, I will be
8573
1 casting a no vote.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative.
4 Announce the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
6 Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 Senator Paterson, why do you
10 rise?
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 would you please recognize Senator Santiago.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Santiago.
15 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you.
16 Mr. President, I ask unanimous
17 consent to be recorded in the negative on
18 Calendar 1194.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
20 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator
21 Santiago will be recorded in the negative on
22 Calendar Number 1194.
23 Senator Santiago again.
8574
1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. I would
2 also like to be recorded in the negative -- if I
3 had been in the chambers last week, I would have
4 been recorded in the negative on Calendar 1092
5 and I would have voted in the affirmative on
6 Calendars 342, 1091 and 1090.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Santiago, I have that -- and I didn't hear the
10 last number that you would -- had you been in
11 the chamber, you would have voted in the
12 negative on Calendar Number 1092?
13 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes, sir.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And would
15 have voted in the affirmative on Calendars
16 Number 342, 791 -
17 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No, 1091.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1091.
19 SENATOR SANTIAGO: And 1090.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1090.
21 Okay. The record will so reflect.
22 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
8575
1 recognizes Senator Bruno.
2 SENATOR BRUNO: We don't have
3 anything on the floor presently, Mr. President?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Okay. Mr.
6 President, we have completed the budget. On
7 behalf of the people of this state -- and I want
8 to commend my colleagues for having addressed
9 what is necessary on behalf of the people of
10 this state at a reasonable hour, in a reasonable
11 way, as reasonable people, and we now will move
12 on to other business, Mr. President, and I would
13 like to recognize that there is no further
14 business to come before the Senate and I move
15 that we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m.
16 Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until
19 tomorrow, Thursday, June 8th, at the regular
20 hour, 11:00 a.m.
21 (Whereupon, at 10:25 p.m., the
22 Senate adjourned.)
23