Regular Session - June 14, 1995
9641
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 14, 1995
10 10:05 a.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
3 will come to order. Members please find their
4 places; staff their places.
5 I ask everybody in the chamber to
6 rise and join me in saying the Pledge of
7 Allegiance to the Flag.
8 (Whereupon, the Senate and those
9 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to
10 the Flag.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're
12 very pleased to be joined by Rabbi Jeffrey
13 Miller of the Marathon Jewish Center of
14 Douglaston, New York, to lead us in prayer.
15 Rabbi Miller.
16 RABBI MILLER: The scriptural
17 reading for this week is taken from the book of
18 Numbers, Chapters 8 through 12. This selection
19 will be read in its entirety on Saturday morning
20 in synagogues throughout the world:
21 And the Lord spoke unto Moses
22 saying, "Speak unto Aaron and say to him, 'When
23 you kindle the lights so that the flames go up
9643
1 the southern lamps will light and give light
2 against the face of the candelabra.'"
3 The Bible then continues: And
4 Aaron did so as God commanded him to do.
5 Our sage's comment is that it is
6 unusual for the Bible to have to take the time
7 to explicitly tell us that Aaron obeyed the will
8 of God. Wouldn't anyone obey God's will?
9 Surely the high priest of Israel would do
10 precisely as he was commanded.
11 Our sages explain that the verse
12 offers us a great insight into the character of
13 Aaron. Aaron obeyed God not only this once but
14 throughout his 39 years of service to the people
15 of Israel in the desert. Aaron, we are told,
16 never lost his enthusiasm for doing even the
17 most routine of functions, the daily lighting of
18 the lamps.
19 Aaron's greatness was his
20 consistent love for God and for the people
21 Israel. He strived to demonstrate that
22 commitment through personal example.
23 When we perform any act
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1 repeatedly, no matter how important it initially
2 seems, we run the risk of making it routine or
3 forgetting its great significance; we run the
4 risk of treating a holy task as a bad habit.
5 Other rabbis suggest a second
6 explanation for the verse, "And Aaron did as God
7 commanded." Not only did Aaron change the
8 manner in which he performed the duties of his
9 office, but he didn't change himself. Despite
10 being given the highly public honor of leading a
11 nation, Aaron the high priest continued to be
12 Aaron the father, Aaron the husband, the
13 neighbor, the brother and the friend. He didn't
14 change his character as a result of the public
15 role he assumed.
16 Later in the scriptural reading,
17 we learn that Moses also remained Moses after he
18 became Moses, the law giver, "And the man Moses
19 was exceedingly humble from all the men on the
20 face of the earth." Surely, if anyone had a
21 right to be just a little bit proud, it was
22 Moses, who spoke with God Almighty.
23 What made these brothers great
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1 was the constant focus on the responsibilities
2 of their role rather than the power of their
3 office, and we today have a great deal to learn
4 from Moses and Aaron.
5 Almighty God, may the men and
6 women of this great body lead us by their
7 personal example; may they continue to guide in
8 their service to our state so that their hearts
9 remain focused on the holy task they have been
10 granted. May You, dear God, bless them with the
11 greatest gift any public servant can have, the
12 humility and peace of mind to remain true to the
13 ideals that led them to seek office, the
14 enthusiasm to perform even the most routine of
15 legislative functions.
16 Amen.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
18 of the Journal.
19 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
20 Tuesday, June 13th. The Senate met pursuant to
21 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon
22 designation of the Temporary President. The
23 Journal of Monday, June 12th, was read and
9646
1 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
3 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
4 read.
5 Presentation of petitions.
6 Messages from the Assembly.
7 Messages from the Governor.
8 Reports of standing committees.
9 Reports of select committees.
10 Communications and reports from
11 state officers.
12 Motions and resolutions.
13 Senator Bruno, we have one
14 substitution.
15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
16 please make the substitution.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
18 will read the substitution.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland
20 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from
21 Assembly Bill Number 4608A and substitute it for
22 the identical Calendar Number 1320.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
9647
1 Substitution is ordered.
2 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
4 would you please remove a sponsor's star on
5 Calendar Number 215, Senate Bill 2090C, and
6 Calendar 557, Senate Bill 3069.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor
8 stars will be removed.
9 Senator Larkin, that brings us to
10 the calendar. What's your pleasure?
11 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
12 can we start with the noncontroversial, please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the noncontroversial calendar.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 15, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 302A, an act
17 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
18 increasing the penalties for loitering.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect on the first day of
23 November.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 130, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 724.
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act
14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
15 relation to operation of a motor vehicle.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 743, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3827B, an
21 act to authorize the city of Ithaca in the
22 county of Tompkins to discontinue the use of
23 certain real property.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
2 a home rule message at the desk.
3 Secretary will read the last
4 section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 745, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3909B, an act
15 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,
16 county of Chemung, to transfer a portion of
17 Diven Park.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
19 a home rule message at the desk.
20 Secretary will read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
9650
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218A.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 923, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3172B, an act
14 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to extending
15 the additional one percent rate of sales and
16 compensating use taxes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
18 will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
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1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 937.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
8 local fiscal impact note at the desk.
9 Lay the bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 993, by Senator -
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1214, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1736A, an
17 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the
18 Public Service Law.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
20 aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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1 1266, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5372, an
2 act to amend Chapter 311 of the Laws of 1920,
3 relating to the assessment and collection of
4 taxes in Suffolk County.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1272, by Senator DiCarlo.
17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
18 aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1284, by Member of the Assembly Dinowitz.
23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
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1 aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
7 aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1287, by Senator Hannon.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
13 aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an
18 act to amend the Social Services Law.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
20 aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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1 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an
2 act to amend the General Obligations Law.
3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
4 aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an
9 act to amend the Social Services Law.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1297, by Senator Padavan.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1299, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 3520,
20 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
21 relation to the transportation of certain
22 persons.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1300, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3882B, an
5 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
6 extending the effectiveness of the one percent
7 increase in sales and compensating use taxes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1301, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3883, an act
20 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to imposing a
21 hotel and motel tax in the county of Genesee.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will read the last section.
9656
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1302, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3908, an
11 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation
12 to contracting indebtedness for the abatement of
13 nuisances and other conditions.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
9657
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1303, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4170, an act
3 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
4 imposition of additional taxes in the county of
5 Ulster.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4509, an
18 act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law,
19 in relation to eliminating limitations on
20 certain corporations.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside.
9658
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3514A, an
3 act to amend the Executive law, in relation to
4 Fire Prevention and Building Code standards.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1306, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an
10 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
11 to notification of patients.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
13 aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
15 bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1307, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4811A, an
18 act to authorize and validate the creation of a
19 volunteer fire fighter service award program.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
21 a home rule message at the desk.
22 Secretary will read the last
23 section.
9659
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1308, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4871A, an
11 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
12 rate of sales and compensating use tax imposed
13 on Greene County.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
9660
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1309, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 4902A, an
3 act in relation to the calculation of average
4 daily attendance and minimum days of session for
5 an experimental kindergarten program.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958A, an
18 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
19 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public
20 Service Commission.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
22 will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9661
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1311, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4960A, an
10 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law,
11 in relation to copyrights.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1312, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5045.
9662
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
2 aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1316, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5308, an act
7 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
8 continuing the Agricultural Health and Safety
9 Advisory Board.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1317, by Senator Velella.
22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
23 aside.
9663
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1320, substituted earlier today, by Member of
5 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print 4608A, an
6 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
7 in relation to the taking of Atlantic Menhaden.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1321, by Senator Jones, Senate Print 4546, an
20 act authorizing the town of Irondequoit, Monroe
21 County, to make available to Samuel Soprano, Jr.
22 membership in the 20-year optional retirement
23 plan.
9664
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
2 a home rule message at the desk.
3 Secretary will read the last
4 section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin.
14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
15 may we return to reports of standing committees
16 for a report from the Judiciary Committee.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before we
18 do that, Senator Stachowski, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
20 President, could we possibly reconsider the vote
21 by which Calendar 1310 passed the house?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is still in the house, Senator Stachowski.
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1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Could we
2 reconsider the vote and lay the bill aside?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
5 Calendar Number 310 passed the house.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 1310.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- 1310
8 passed the house.
9 The Secretary will call the roll
10 on reconsideration.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958A, an
13 act to amend the Public Service Law.
14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
15 aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
17 bill aside.
18 Now, there is a report of the
19 Judiciary Committee at the desk. I ask the
20 Secretary to read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
22 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
23 following nomination:
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1 Donald J. Corbett, of Rochester,
2 for the New York State Court of Claims.
3 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
5 recognizes Senator Lack.
6 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
7 President.
8 I'm happy to begin a group of six
9 nominations this morning to the New York State
10 Court of Claims nominated by Governor Pataki, a
11 wonderful group of appointees, a very disting
12 uished group of appointees.
13 Mr. President, the lead appointee
14 is a current sitting judge of the Court of
15 Claims, the immediate past Presiding Judge of
16 that court, Donald J. Corbett, of Rochester.
17 He went before the screening
18 committee. He has been nominated by the
19 Governor. His bona fide credentials have been
20 examined by staff of the Judiciary Committee,
21 and this morning he appeared before the
22 committee and was unanimously recommended to the
23 floor for confirmation.
9667
1 And, Mr. President, I would like
2 to yield for purposes of seconding to Senator
3 Michael Nozzolio.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
5 recognizes Senator Nozzolio.
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
7 President.
8 Mr. President. My colleagues.
9 As stated in the Judiciary Committee meeting
10 this morning and will be echoed before us this
11 morning on a number of occasions that the
12 caliber and quality of candidate placed in
13 nomination for the Court of Claims is certainly
14 an excellent one. That cadre of candidates is
15 lead in the first nomination by a renomination
16 of Judge Donald J. Corbett Jr. to serve in
17 continuance of service on the Court of Claims.
18 Judge Corbett was appointed to
19 the Court of Claims in July of 1983 and has
20 served with distinction this last period, during
21 which he rose to the rank of presiding judge of
22 the court.
23 Judge Corbett brings to the court
9668
1 a great wealth of experience and background both
2 in private practice and in public experience.
3 In 1974, he was elected to the Monroe County
4 Family Court and has served in a variety of
5 judicial capacities since that time.
6 During his tenure as a member of
7 the Court of Claims throughout the Central New
8 York and Western New York Region, he has gained
9 and earned the respect of the judiciary in that
10 region. I can attest to many judges who have
11 claimed and commented about Judge Corbett's
12 integrity and his activity relative to
13 strengthening the judiciary in our region.
14 In 1993, Judge Corbett was
15 appointed a member of the New York Judicial
16 Committee on Women in the Courts by Chief Judge
17 Judith Kaye; and along with this experience, I
18 compliment the Governor in this renomination of
19 Judge Corbett to continue on the Court of Claims
20 and urge my colleagues to join in support.
21 Thank you very much.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 question is on the nomination of Donald J.
9669
1 Corbett of Rochester, New York.
2 Excuse me. Senator Dollinger to
3 speak on the nomination.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To speak on
5 the nomination. Don Corbett of Rochester has
6 been a fixture in our legal community for the
7 better part of 25 or 30 years.
8 I note that he went to -- he was
9 a graduate of Aquinas High School and, in
10 deference to Senator Gold, he went to the
11 Cornell of the Midwest, a little school run by
12 the Jesuits out in South Bend, Indiana, from
13 which he graduated. He then went to Albany Law
14 School, an institution that I also call a home,
15 and came to Rochester, practiced in private
16 practice, was elected to the Family Court and
17 then appointed by the prior governor to a seat
18 on the Court of Claims. He has distinguished
19 himself in that position.
20 He has, I think, more than
21 adequately represented the high standards of the
22 Rochester legal community. I applaud Governor
23 Pataki for renominating him.
9670
1 And I will add one other thing,
2 with respect to Senator Velella, who said, "Is
3 there a stenographer present?" when I praised
4 Governor Pataki for his nominees to the bench.
5 I think, based on my experience on the Judiciary
6 Committee, limited and short as it may be, that
7 the nominees that Governor Pataki has put
8 forward to fill vacancies on the Court of
9 Claims, as well as local judicial vacancies, has
10 been of extremely high quality.
11 As someone who has, at times,
12 been critical of the Governor's choices in other
13 areas, I want to announce publicly that I
14 support the Governor's continuing to put quality
15 on the bench in the State of New York so that
16 from top to bottom, from the Court of Appeals,
17 down to the Court of Claims, down to the Supreme
18 Court, down to the Family Court, to all the
19 trial level courts in this state, we will
20 continue to have highly qualified men and women
21 who reflect the best in the Empire State.
22 Judge Donald Corbett is a great
23 example of that. I commend Governor Pataki for
9671
1 reappointing him, and I wish Judge Corbett well
2 in the future.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
4 recognizes Senator Volker.
5 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
6 Very briefly, I want to further echo what has
7 been said about the appointments that the
8 Governor has made to the judiciary, and
9 especially I want to say that Don Corbett is
10 recognized as one of the leading judges in all
11 of Upstate New York and the Rochester area, I
12 think, has an immense amount of respect for him,
13 and I want to also say that he is not only a
14 great lawyer and a great judge but a fine
15 gentleman and a wonderful credit to the bench,
16 and I think it was a tremendous appointment by
17 Governor Pataki.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
19 recognizes Senator Stafford on the nomination.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
21 probably today we shouldn't be correcting each
22 other, but in South Bend, Jesuits? Oh, no. No,
23 not Jesuits. So I thought we'd just -- however,
9672
1 a very good school.
2 On a serious note, Mr. President,
3 many of us, including myself, have gotten to
4 know Don Corbett very well, as has been said
5 here today. He is an excellent lawyer. He's a
6 hard worker. He is approachable, and he's got
7 that sense, frankly, that all six do here today,
8 of making decisions, proper decisions, and we're
9 fortunate that he is continuing on the Court of
10 Claims.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 question is on the nomination of Donald J.
13 Corbett, of Rochester, New York, to become a
14 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims.
15 All those in favor of the
16 nomination, signify by saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Opposed, nay.
19 (There was no response.)
20 The nominee is unanimously
21 confirmed.
22 Judge Corbett has joined us in
23 the chamber to your left in the gallery.
9673
1 Judge Corbett, congratulations on
2 your reappointment. Thanks for joining us.
3 (Applause.)
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
6 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
7 following nomination: James Preston King of
8 Ticonderoga, judge of the New York State Court
9 of Claims.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
11 recognizes Senator Lack.
12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 I proudly rise to move the
15 nomination of James Preston King, for the next
16 couple of minutes anyway, a member of the New
17 York State Assembly, as a judge of the Court of
18 Claims.
19 I'm going to yield to his
20 longtime friend, Senator Stafford, in a moment,
21 but I can't help but take notice of the presence
22 of the Minority Leader of the Assembly in this
23 chamber and a whole passel of members of the
9674
1 Assembly standing behind me, who I assume are
2 here this morning in testament to their long
3 time friend and colleague, Jim King.
4 So it's a privilege, Mr.
5 President, for me to stand up and tell you that
6 the Judiciary Committee unanimously moves the
7 recommendation of Jim King today, having been
8 found well qualified by the screening committee
9 and nominated for the position of judge of the
10 Court of Claims by Governor George Pataki, in
11 another excellent appointment.
12 Mr. President, I would yield to
13 Senator Stafford for purposes of a second.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
15 recognizes Senator Stafford.
16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 This is one of the most pleasant
19 days that I have had in the few years that I
20 have been here in the Senate. Some people
21 sometimes say, "Why do you say the same thing
22 all the time?" And I tell them, "Because I
23 haven't got anything else to say," but the point
9675
1 is, as we've said about the Governor's
2 nominations and appointments, they have been
3 excellent, and we stand here day after day
4 saying these are of the best nominations that
5 could have been made, and these are today.
6 James King is no exception. He
7 served in the Marine Corps, and he rose to the
8 rank of General. We could just stop there,
9 because how many get to be a General? But he
10 was the Judge Advocate of the Marine Corps,
11 responsibility for all the legal work in the
12 Marine Corps during a very, very difficult time
13 in our history, during the Korean and Vietnam
14 War Era.
15 Jim has been a law professor at
16 Stetson University. He also has been an
17 assistant to a Supreme Court Justice, and I
18 could go on and on. Finally, one day, he said
19 he was going to run for the Assembly, and I said
20 to him, "Well, you are better than any of us in
21 the Legislature," and he proved I was right. He
22 got down here and he worked hard, respected, so
23 well liked, and now ascends to the bench.
9676
1 As I said and so many have said,
2 the Governor could have made no better choice,
3 and for Jim and his family, today it's a great
4 day. But it's also a great day for the State of
5 New York to have Jim King on the Court of
6 Claims. New York will be better for his past
7 efforts and for his future efforts, and we all
8 congratulate him.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
10 recognizes Senator Gold on the nomination.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, thank you.
12 Mr. President. There are six
13 nominees, and they had a wonderful start with
14 the Presiding Judge, former Senator Mega,
15 telling us about them. But I was looking
16 through the list, and Judge Brunetti I didn't
17 have a problem with because he is from Syracuse
18 and he knows my former roommate from law school;
19 and, of course, Judge Corbett is a legend, that
20 wasn't a problem. Mr. Midey was a former
21 legislative counsel which I respect, so that
22 wasn't a problem. Ron Tills I knew from the
23 Assembly, and Judge Ruderman with her M.A. from
9677
1 Cornell is no problem.
2 But, with Mr. King, I didn't know
3 what to do, so I decided to consult the highest
4 possible authority available, and since
5 Assemblyman Rappleyea said to go for it, I'm
6 going to do that. Thank you, Assemblyman.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Farley, on the nomination.
9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 I rise to support the nomination
12 of Jim King, a true renaissance man, a guy that
13 not only grew up in humble circumstances but
14 went on to distinguish himself in so many
15 different avenues, as a law professor, assistant
16 attorney general, as a General in the Marine
17 Corps, as a combat veteran.
18 As a distinguished Assemblyman,
19 he served as one of my Assembly people in Fulton
20 County and Montgomery County in several areas
21 that I represent, and I never saw anybody in
22 their first year in the Legislature accomplish
23 so much and do so much as Jim King did.
9678
1 He is not only a splendid person
2 and a delightful person to be around, he is a
3 great family man, has a beautiful family and a
4 lovely wife, who is with him today up in the
5 gallery.
6 But it's a terrible loss. I see
7 all these Assemblymen all over the chamber
8 here. I don't know whether they are for or
9 against him, because I'm sure they don't like to
10 lose him to the chamber over there, but I'm sure
11 that everyone in this chamber, including your
12 colleagues, is thrilled and happy for you, Jim.
13 I'm going to vote
14 enthusiastically for his appointment to the
15 Court of Claims, and the state of New York is
16 very, very grateful for the service that you
17 have given us and, not only that, but the
18 service you have given to your country.
19 Best wishes to you, Jim.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Leibell on the nomination.
22 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
9679
1 I could not let this opportunity
2 pass by without rising to comment on this
3 nomination. I have had the chance to speak here
4 previously on Governor Pataki's nominations, and
5 he has certainly, without question, sent us some
6 excellent men and women to serve New York State,
7 but, as was noted, we have someone here today
8 who is particularly special and who is someone
9 that myself and my family consider to be a close
10 and dear friend.
11 It's been noted that Jim King has
12 had a distinguished career, a great military
13 career in that naval service, the Marine Corps.
14 He served as the senior Marine Corps attorney,
15 as was noted, during some very difficult times
16 and, rather than retiring to the South or the
17 Southwest, he came back to the state of his
18 origin and continued and expanded upon his
19 career of public service.
20 I think it says something that we
21 have so many of my former colleagues who are
22 here today and, while they do not have the
23 opportunity to speak as I do now, I know they
9680
1 are here and share my thoughts as does our
2 leader "Rap" Rappleyea in expressing our great
3 affection for Jim King. He certainly was one of
4 those people who came into the Legislature and
5 by his character and skill and good humor
6 changed the course of many of our activities and
7 certainly created a finer Legislature than it
8 might otherwise have been.
9 I am very pleased to stand here
10 today and support this nomination. It's an
11 excellent one, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Larkin on the nomination.
14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
15 I proudly rise to second the nomination of Jim
16 King for the Court of Claims.
17 Some of you in this chamber
18 remember Desert Storm, when we were trying to
19 find out how to protect the families of those
20 individuals who were called to active duty 24,
21 48, 72 hours notice, one of the compelling
22 problems was, how do we protect the families.
23 In some of the insurance plans, the little group
9681
1 policy written up, it didn't provide any
2 protection for those families and none of them
3 knew about it.
4 I went to Jim King, because I
5 knew that General King had been in the Judge
6 Advocate -- he was the Judge Advocate of the
7 Marine Corps, a highly sought position and only
8 few can serve. I went to Jim King, and we sat
9 down, and we went over what we were trying to do
10 with the law, how we would protect these
11 families that were unprotected because there was
12 no facilities for them where they were called up
13 from to use the military facilities.
14 Jim King suggested I call a Navy
15 captain in the Pentagon.
16 Thanks, Jim.
17 I called him and, after
18 discussion, he faxed me some material of how
19 this could be accomplished. He said, "By the
20 way, why did King tell you to call me?"
21 "He said he thought you should
22 know."
23 He said, "No, Senator, you got it
9682
1 wrong. General King wrote this directive to
2 protect families of those who were called up."
3 General King isn't just another
4 ordinary individual that served three terms
5 here. I don't know how many of you ever been a
6 young lieutenant in a foxhole. He's been
7 there. I don't know how many of you ever needed
8 an excellent trombone player. He's been there.
9 He's been a friend, a colleague;
10 and I know, as Vin Leibell said, our colleagues
11 from the other house that were with us with Jim
12 would like to speak but, as I just told Gordon,
13 the Governor took a round peg and put it in a
14 round hole to make this system work. Jim King
15 is the right person for the right job at the
16 right time.
17 General, I congratulate you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Stachowski on the nomination.
20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I, too, rise
21 to second the nomination of Jim King.
22 I don't know him all that well,
23 but I did have the pleasure of serving with him
9683
1 on the Ethics Commission, which most of you
2 would agree isn't really a pleasure. But he
3 always had a nice word and was nice to everybody
4 that came and very cordial, and he showed a
5 quiet dignity that I think will serve him very
6 well as a judge.
7 And I would like to point out
8 that I think one of the reasons all those
9 Assemblymen are here is to make sure that "Rap"
10 sees them here supporting King so that he won't
11 pick them to be the next person on the Ethics
12 Commission.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Leichter on the nomination.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
16 as many of you know, I'm very fortunate to have
17 a country home up in the North Country and,
18 therefore, I have had a wonderful summer Senator
19 representing me, Ron Stafford; but I have also
20 had, and I'm afraid about to lose, a wonderful
21 summer Assembly member in Jim King.
22 I think it says something of the
23 North Country that they can produce such
9684
1 outstanding leaders as Senator Stafford and
2 General King.
3 But let me tell you, if we're
4 judged by the people who know us best, you can't
5 get a better grade than Jim King. He is really
6 beloved in the North Country. They know him as
7 the gentleman he is, as the fair person he is,
8 as the one who provides service, and the thing
9 that has always impressed me about Jim King is
10 that he is so unassuming and yet he leads, by
11 the force of his personality, by the example
12 that he sets, and I think he is going to be just
13 an excellent addition to the Court of Claims.
14 As an old trial attorney, I would
15 want to be before a judge like Jim King, who is
16 going to be fair and firm, who is going to
17 listen to you and is going to do the right
18 thing.
19 It's really an excellent
20 appointment the Governor has made.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Hoblock on the nomination.
23 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Thank you, Mr.
9685
1 President. I am, indeed, proud to rise and join
2 with so many others in seconding the nomination
3 of Jim King as judge of the New York State Court
4 of Claims.
5 You know, so much has been said
6 about Jim and, you know, there's a saying in the
7 service that, if you're an officer, you become a
8 gentleman and, particularly, if you are a flag
9 officer, by act of Congress you become a
10 gentleman.
11 Well, in the case of Jim King, it
12 certainly did not take an act of Congress to
13 make Jim a gentleman and, as has been said here,
14 he has been very unassuming.
15 I knew Jim first by reputation as
16 a member of the Marine Corps and his rise
17 through the ranks to become the Judge Advocate
18 General, which there is only one position for
19 that in the United States Marine Corps, and Jim
20 rose to that position, and that was because of
21 his character, his integrity and his work as an
22 officer in the United States military.
23 And then he went on to serve his
9686
1 state, and I got to know him a little bit better
2 when he was in the Attorney General's office,
3 and the one thing that we all spoke about at the
4 Judiciary Committee is that, when you think of
5 Jim King, you think of the word "gentleman", and
6 that's what Jim is.
7 He has truly served everyone who
8 has come in touch with him, and he has
9 correspondingly served his country, his town,
10 his county, his state, and now he goes on to sit
11 in judgment where he truly belongs, and it does
12 give me great pleasure to join with so many
13 others to congratulate my good friend, Jim King,
14 in seconding his nomination.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Wright on the nomination.
17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 I, too, join my colleagues to
20 rise and second the nomination of Jim King.
21 One of the unique opportunities
22 that you have as a member of the Senate is to
23 vote on confirmation matters and to cast your
9687
1 vote for individuals of the caliber of Jim
2 King.
3 Jim and I have had the
4 opportunity now to serve together representing
5 the North Country as colleagues here for the
6 last three years and, throughout that tenure, he
7 has been, as he has been throughout his career,
8 a gentleman, a scholar, and certainly his legal
9 career is testimony to his qualifications to the
10 bench.
11 But all of that aside, what Jim's
12 career has exemplified is that of a dedicated
13 public servant, and I think that's more
14 important in terms of the caliber of the
15 individuals that we place on our bench.
16 So I'm very proud to be here and
17 rise in support of the nomination, encourage my
18 colleagues to join with me in voting to confirm
19 Jim King, and extend our best wishes and
20 congratulations to him.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Sears on the nomination.
23 SENATOR SEARS: Thank you very
9688
1 much, Mr. President.
2 I, too, want to be very brief in
3 seconding the nomination of Jim King to be a
4 Court of Claims judge. It has all been said.
5 There's nothing that I could add to the
6 accolades that have been said here today, and
7 I'm happy to join my former colleagues in the
8 Assembly who are not over here and also the ones
9 that are who have moved over.
10 We're all so proud of you, Jim.
11 Godspeed. I know you're going to do a great
12 job. It's great to have served with you as a
13 member from the North Country. I'm very happy
14 to second the nomination of Jim King for Court
15 of Claims Judge.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
17 any other member wishing to speak on the
18 nomination?
19 (There was no response.)
20 Hearing none, the question is on
21 the nomination of James Preston King to become a
22 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims.
23 All those in favor, signify by
9689
1 saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The nominee is unanimously
6 confirmed.
7 Judge King is joining us in the
8 chamber. Also with him are his wife, Jane, his
9 son Jim and his wife Lisa, his sons David and
10 Glenn and his sisters Ruth Mullaney and Carolyn
11 Charleton. I think the rest of Ticonderoga is
12 here also.
13 Judge, congratulations on your
14 new appointment. We wish you well.
15 (Applause.)
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
18 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
19 following nomination: Nicholas Midey, Jr. of
20 Seneca Falls.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Lack.
23 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
9690
1 President.
2 I rise to move the nomination of
3 Nicholas Midey, Jr. of Seneca Falls as judge of
4 the New York State Court of Claims. Once again,
5 he's been examined by the committee, endorsed
6 unanimously by the committee. His credentials
7 have been examined by the committee staff. He
8 has passed the steering committee appointed by
9 the Governor and has been nominated by the
10 Governor, and it's with extreme pleasure,
11 because now I don't have to hear from Senator
12 Nozzolio every day on what's happening, that I
13 ask Senator Nozzolio to please second the
14 nomination.
15 I yield to him.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
17 recognizes Senator Nozzolio on the nomination.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
19 President.
20 And thank you, Senator Lack, for
21 the tremendous leadership you have shown as
22 chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and I think
23 it cannot be overstated that the caliber of
9691
1 judge who this Senate is reviewing today in each
2 of the nominees is the par excellence that I
3 believe this court has never seen before, and
4 that I rise, Mr. President, my colleagues, in
5 endorsement of Nicholas Midey, Jr. as a nominee
6 of Governor George Pataki for justice of the New
7 York State Court of Claims, and it is with the
8 most tremendous pleasure that I do so.
9 We rise often on behalf of
10 nominees that we represent or know. I rise
11 today with not only the knowledge of this
12 nominee but an intimate friendship and kinship
13 with him throughout my entire life. We both
14 went to school together. We both played on
15 athletic teams together. We worked together,
16 played together, grew up together, and lived in
17 one of the best small towns the Empire State has
18 in its jurisdiction.
19 During these last few years, I
20 have sought the counsel of Nick on a number of
21 occasions both during my tenure as an
22 Assemblyman and here, in service in this great
23 body. I found Nick Midey to be extremely
9692
1 conscientious, an excellent public servant, a
2 successful private attorney, a selfless
3 community volunteer and a dedicated husband and
4 father.
5 He is a lifelong resident of my
6 hometown of Seneca Falls, a graduate of Miners
7 Academy, Georgetown University, and the Syracuse
8 University College of Law. He went home to
9 practice law in a very successful law practice
10 and worked very hard, working with the people of
11 our community, the institutions of our
12 community, and served in areas of municipal law,
13 banking law and criminal law, and working for 14
14 years as Seneca Falls and Seneca County's Public
15 Defender, for 12 years as Seneca Falls Town
16 Attorney.
17 During his private practice also
18 found time to volunteer, to serve on the very
19 important Committee on Character and Fitness for
20 applications to admission to the State of New
21 York State Bar for the Fourth Department, one of
22 the only small town attorneys to have that
23 distinction. Also Nick worked very hard on the
9693
1 Fourth Department's Committee on Gender
2 Fairness, a particularly significant position,
3 because in that his hometown is the birth place
4 of women's rights in this nation. Nick worked
5 on that committee and sought very high -
6 received very high marks as a result of that
7 involvement.
8 I believe, Mr. President, my
9 colleagues, by advancing this nomination, the
10 Governor has shown -- and I believe
11 significantly to his credit -- that he
12 understands and appreciates the hands-on,
13 personally-oriented, people-oriented experience
14 that a small town lawyer can bring to the
15 bench.
16 Something I believe that is
17 extremely important is service to people,
18 service to people in everyday opportunities, and
19 that service can only enhance the bench, can
20 only serve to make our judiciary a more
21 responsive one and one that we all can continue
22 to be proud of. Nick Midey has served his
23 clients, his neighbors, his family and his
9694
1 employers with marked excellence and
2 distinction, and it befits me and it befits him
3 to serve on a place on the New York State Court
4 of Claims, one of the highest courts in this
5 country, one of the most distinctive courts in
6 this nation.
7 Nick will bring a perspective and
8 an energy and an enthusiasm unparalleled, in my
9 view. Mr. President, I can not overstate my
10 honor and my happiness in bringing this
11 nomination to the Senate, and I urge my
12 colleagues to support the nomination of Nicholas
13 Midey, Jr. to the New York State Court of
14 Claims.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
17 nomination?
18 (There was no response.)
19 Hearing none, the question is on
20 the nomination of Nicholas Midey, Jr. of Seneca
21 Falls to the position of judge of the New York
22 State Court of Claims.
23 All those in favor, signify by
9695
1 saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The nominee is unanimously
6 confirmed.
7 We are happy to be joined by Nick
8 Midey, who is in the gallery above us to your
9 left, and his wife, Marie.
10 Nick, congratulations and good
11 luck.
12 (Applause.)
13 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin.
14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
15 may we now please take up Resolution 1619,
16 sponsored by Senator Velella.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
18 return to motions and resolutions. I will ask
19 the Secretary to read the resolution in its
20 entirety.
21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
22 Velella and all members of the Senate,
23 Legislative Resolution, commending the New York
9696
1 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force for its
2 initiative in responding to the disaster in
3 Oklahoma City.
4 Whereas, It is the sense of this
5 Assembled Body that those who give positive
6 definition to the profile and disposition of the
7 communities of our nation do so profoundly
8 strengthen our shared commitment to the exercise
9 of freedom; and
10 Whereas, Attendant to such
11 concern and fully in accord with its
12 longstanding traditions it is the intent of this
13 Assembled Body to commend the New York Urban
14 Search and Rescue Task Force for its initiative
15 in responding to the disaster in Oklahoma City;
16 and
17 Whereas, The New York Urban
18 Search and Rescue Task Force NY TF-1 came into
19 existence about three years ago as the result of
20 a need to augment local emergency response
21 personnel at the scene of catastrophic
22 emergencies throughout the United States; and
23 Whereas, Federal Emergency
9697
1 Management Agency defined the need to have a
2 rapid mobilization, NY TF-1 can, within six
3 hours of notification and activation, travel to
4 a point of departure with an entire cache of
5 rescue, logistical, technical, communication and
6 medical equipment that will be necessary to
7 operate independently for ten days or longer;
8 and
9 Whereas, as part of the
10 deployment, 58 skilled and experienced personnel
11 from New York City's fire, police and emergency
12 medical services operate as a single team; the
13 team's knowledge, skills and experience are
14 broad and extensive in search, rescue, heavy
15 rigging, structural collapse, hazardous
16 materials, K-9 search and emergency medical
17 care.
18 All members of NY TF-1 are
19 veterans of the World Trade Center bombing and
20 some task force members operated at the
21 Bridgeport building collapse in Connecticut
22 several years back.
23 Under the leadership of the Mayor
9698
1 of the City of New York, Rudolph W. Giuliani,
2 the NY TF-1 members were dispatched to Oklahoma
3 City in response to the devastating events to
4 help provide relief at the bomb site.
5 Upon activation for the Oklahoma
6 City bombing, the NY TF-1 mobilized and
7 deployed, operating the first 35 hours without
8 relief; after being relieved, NY TF-1 began
9 working 12-hour shifts from 1900 hours to 0700
10 hours until ordered to stand down.
11 During the search and recovery
12 operations, NY TF-1 recovered approximately 30
13 percent of all victims and identified the
14 location of a significant number of other
15 victims; this is extraordinary considering 10
16 other FEMA Task Forces operated in the same
17 area.
18 Members of the New York City
19 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force are: Fire
20 Department: Raymond Downey, John O'Connell,
21 Craig Shelley, Jack Fanning, Edward Beban, Terry
22 Hatton, John Ferry, William J. McCarthy, James
23 Ellson, Michael Milner, Timothy Brown, Stephen
9699
1 J. Casani, Michael Esposito, Peter Martin,
2 Kenneth Memmen, Philip H. McArdle, Billy Lake,
3 John V. Tighe, Steve Spall, Kevin Dowdell,
4 Richard Evers, Al Fuentes, Hugo Herold, Dan
5 McDonough, Sam Melisi; Police Department:
6 Donald LaSalla, Curt Wargo, John McArdle,
7 Timothy Farrell, James Buscemi, Juan Garcia,
8 John English, Michael Corr, Dennis O'Connell,
9 Kenneth Winkler, Peter Conlin, Manuel Hernandez,
10 Mark D. Rippel, Michael Hanson, Michael Curtain,
11 Charles Ruppert, Thomas Rowe, Eric Becker,
12 Joseph Amato, Lawrence Johnston, Thomas Langone,
13 Kevin Clark, John Ryan, Michael Berg, Stephen
14 Berger, Michael Firgurski, Robert Schnelle; and
15 Emergency Medical Service: Charles Wells, James
16 Booth, Carl Tramantana, Raymond Bonner, Dario
17 Gonzalez and Michael Kindschuh; and
18 Whereas, through their valiant
19 concern for the victims of the Oklahoma City
20 disaster, the members of the New York Urban
21 Search and Rescue Task Force have so unselfishly
22 advanced that spirit of united purpose and
23 shared concerned which is the unalterable
9700
1 manifestation of our American experience; now
2 therefore be it
3 Resolved, That this Assembled
4 Body pause in its deliberations and most proudly
5 commend the New York Urban Search and Rescue
6 Task Force for its initiative in responding to
7 the disaster in Oklahoma City, fully confident
8 that such procedure mirrors our shared
9 commitment to preserve, to enhance, and to yet
10 effect that patrimony of freedom which is our
11 American heritage; and be it further
12 Resolved, That a copy of this
13 Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
14 to the New York Urban Search and Rescue Task
15 Force.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
17 recognizes Senator Velella on the resolution.
18 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President.
19 April 19, 1995, was the day that shocked
20 everybody across the world. The vulnerability
21 of each and every one of us as a victim of
22 whether it be terrorism or natural disasters was
23 brought home to each and every one of us.
9701
1 As a response, our nation called
2 upon 25 teams from 17 states to address the
3 problem of the Oklahoma bombing and help search
4 for the bodies that were there and help save
5 lives.
6 New York State was pleased in
7 having one of those teams from the City of New
8 York which consisted of 58 men who are here with
9 us today, men that came from the fire depart
10 ment, the police department and the emergency
11 medical services of the city of New York. They
12 were ready to respond. They worked diligently.
13 Their first shift was a 35-hour shift working in
14 that building trying to recover bodies. After
15 they took a break from that 35-hour shift, they
16 worked successive 12-hour shifts searching for
17 bodies, searching for people, saving lives.
18 We're all very much aware of the
19 fact that, whether it be a natural disaster or
20 an act of terrorism, this can strike anywhere at
21 any time, whether it be us or one of our loved
22 ones, these are the people who stand ready 24
23 hours a day to respond at their own personal
9702
1 danger to help save lives and recover bodies.
2 I certainly am proud to say that
3 they are here with us today and, while we're
4 happy to see them, just pause for a moment and
5 think of the people trapped in that building
6 that were even happier to see their faces as
7 they were reached and their lives were saved
8 because of the dedication of these men.
9 I ask you to join with me in
10 giving them a welcome from the Senate and ask
11 them to stand and receive our accolades.
12 Thank you for a job well done.
13 (Standing ovation.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
15 recognizes Senator Paterson on the resolution.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
17 to speak on behalf of the Minority.
18 As Senator Velella said, April
19 26th is a date that will mark one of the great
20 disasters in American history and certainly the
21 one that claimed the most lives in one single
22 incident. I'm sorry, April 19th is the date
23 that that occurred. April 26th, one week later,
9703
1 we gaveled in at 10:00 a.m. in the morning to
2 observe the national silence. The Majority
3 Leader had us gavel in early that particular day
4 in recognition of that tragic event.
5 And so these individuals of
6 distinction from the police department, the fire
7 department, and the emergency medical services,
8 not only served with great honor but also served
9 with great distinction, as the resolution says.
10 These individuals recovered actually 30 percent
11 of the bodies that were recovered in that
12 disaster in spite of the fact that there were
13 eight other FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
14 Administration) teams that were present at that
15 particular time.
16 What they didn't say was how many
17 lives they actually saved and how many people
18 they helped. They can't put a count on that and
19 can't assess a value to that tremendous
20 service. One of the saddest things I ever read
21 were about the individuals who were part of the
22 recovery teams after the Beirut bombing in 1983,
23 after the tragic air disaster of PanAm Flight
9704
1 103 in December 1988, and, of course, the
2 situation with the World Trade Center where
3 there weren't as many lives lost but, in 1979,
4 the Jonestown massacre, and those rescue teams
5 that went to those areas, many of them incurred
6 psychological damage from having to dig through
7 the remains and remove the bodies and also
8 accept the senselessness of the tragedy.
9 These individuals who went to
10 Oklahoma City knew of the disasters that had
11 occurred before, and they went to Oklahoma City
12 with the understanding that not only were their
13 lives at risk but even their psychological
14 nature was at risk, but they went anyway and
15 they fought and they suffered and they paid and
16 they worked, at one point, 35 hours without any
17 rest or delay, and they certainly have earned
18 our gratitude, our respect, and certainly our
19 admiration, and all of us want to lend our
20 voices to those who are in recognition of their
21 heroic efforts that we celebrate today.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Abate on the resolution.
9705
1 SENATOR ABATE: As former
2 Commissioner of the New York City Department of
3 Correction and also the Department of Probation,
4 I have had the honor to work directly with the
5 New York City Police Department, the Fire
6 Department and the Emergency Medical Services.
7 I have seen first-hand and close up their
8 dedication and courage. We know it in New York
9 City, and I'm extremely proud that this august
10 body today is paying recognition to the
11 extraordinary efforts that you all gave in
12 Oklahoma City.
13 So I join with my colleagues and
14 commend you and applaud you; because it's
15 because of your actions, you are willing to
16 serve the people not just in New York State but
17 people who are in need throughout this country.
18 It is because of your efforts lives were saved,
19 and we're eternally grateful to you.
20 Thank you very much.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Padavan on the resolution.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
9706
1 President.
2 I would like to join with my
3 colleagues who have already spoken to echo their
4 gratitude to these men who reflect the very best
5 of the very finest police force in the world.
6 It's unfortunate from time to time we see
7 newspaper reports that sensationalize some of
8 the things that happen that should not have
9 happened; but as we look up at these brave
10 individuals and men who put themselves on the
11 line, we know that the 38,000 some-odd men and
12 women who serve in the police components in the
13 city of New York that they are indeed the
14 nation's finest, and not only in this instance
15 did they demonstrate their courage and
16 commitment to their responsibilities but, as
17 Senator Paterson pointed out, that is their
18 heritage and their history.
19 And so I'm delighted to be among
20 all of you who stand here and to express my
21 gratitude, not only for what you did because
22 that speaks for itself but, most importantly,
23 for what you are and that all too often is not
9707
1 made clear in the general public. So thank you,
2 each and every one of you, particularly those
3 from the 11th Senatorial District.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
5 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
6 resolution?
7 Senator Waldon on the resolution.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
9 much, Mr. President.
10 Having served in the city of New
11 York for 13 years as a police officer with the
12 New York City Housing Authority Police Depart
13 ment I have a sensitivity and an awareness of
14 what you do perhaps better than many of my
15 colleagues. I know the drill from John Jay,
16 having graduated from that school as well. I
17 know the drill from Quantico with the FBI
18 Academy, having been there on three different
19 occasions. But it is impossible for anyone who
20 has not served as a law enforcement person to
21 understand not only the dangers you face but the
22 camaraderie which builds because each of you
23 with your partner faces danger in a special way
9708
1 not known to other citizens, and so we're here
2 today to applaud you, to show our gratitude and
3 to be very grateful not only on behalf of our
4 constituents but ourselves, because you
5 gentlemen -- and I don't see any ladies up
6 there, but ladies as well -- are the first line
7 of defense. You are truly the modern day good
8 Samaritans, and we all owe you a great debt.
9 Thank you very much.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 resolution was previously adopted but, on behalf
12 of Senator Velella, Senator Bruno, the Majority
13 Leader of this house, all the members of the
14 chamber, I would like to personally congratulate
15 you, all of you, on your effort. I commend you
16 for your commitment, your dedication and your
17 service above self. You are truly the example
18 of the best of the best, the volunteers that
19 this country has to offer, and we thank you for
20 your commitment and thank you for coming and
21 joining us and sharing just a moment of your
22 lifetime with those of us in the New York State
23 Senate. We applaud you.
9709
1 Thank you for being here.
2 (Applause.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Larkin.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
6 may we now return to reports from the Judiciary
7 Committee.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
9 return to the reports of standing committees.
10 Ask the Secretary to continue to read the report
11 of the Judiciary Committee.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Lack, from the Committee on Judiciary, reports
14 the following nomination: Ronald H. Tills of
15 Hamburg, New York State Court of Claims.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Lack.
18 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
19 President.
20 It's again my privilege to rise
21 to move the nomination of Ronald H. Tills of
22 Hamburg as a Judge of the New York State Court
23 of Claims, a distinguished former member of the
9710
1 Assembly, and we continue to be joined by the
2 Assembly Minority Leader, Assemblyman Rappleyea,
3 and Assemblyman Reynolds.
4 And, to second and further
5 describe to you the illustrious career of Ron
6 Tills, one who knows him best, I most respect
7 fully yield to Senator Volker.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
9 recognizes Senator Volker.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
11 Let me -- I always tell the truth.
12 Let me just say that it is a very
13 happy and proud day for many of us who have
14 known Ron Tills for so many years and, as I said
15 to my Assembly colleague, Tom Reynolds, Ron
16 Tills is sort of like the godfather of our
17 Republican delegation in Erie County. For
18 instance, he brought Tom Reynolds to Albany, who
19 is now not only a distinguished Assemblyman but
20 also is our county Republican chairman.
21 He also is a person who -- the
22 first person actually to call me and suggest to
23 a young police officer who was working in the
9711
1 village of Depew at the time that maybe he
2 should run for the Assembly.
3 Well, I made that decision and
4 Ron sort of guided me through my two years of
5 the Assembly before I came over here, as
6 somebody said, "escaped from the big house," and
7 came over here to the Senate.
8 But let me say that not only is
9 Ron Tills my friend and a former colleague -
10 and, of course, "Rap" Rappleyea is here, the
11 Minority Leader, who came to the Assembly with
12 me also, and served with Ron for a number of
13 years -- not only is he a friend and a former
14 colleague but also an excellent attorney, a
15 former town justice, town attorney, one of the
16 leading attorneys in upstate New York.
17 His firm, in fact, and Ron
18 personally and his firm have practiced law for
19 as many years as I can remember. In fact, my
20 father and myself dealt with Ron and his firm
21 for a long, long time.
22 I can't think of a better
23 appointment to the Court of Claims. In fact, as
9712
1 we have previously said, the group that is being
2 appointed today is just such a class group that
3 I think it gives tremendous respect to the
4 Judiciary, and it's pretty clear, I think, that
5 the Governor really has made just tremendous
6 appointments.
7 To Ron, let me just say my very
8 best for the future. I know you will make an
9 excellent judge and although we had missed you
10 from your days in the Assembly, I know you will
11 grace the bench, and you and Beth, I'm sure,
12 will have a much more regular schedule now maybe
13 in the court. My very best to you and to the
14 whole family and Godspeed.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Rath on the nomination.
17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 I rise, as has Senator Volker, to
20 second the nomination of Ronald H. Tills to the
21 New York State Court of Claims.
22 Ron, for those of you who do not
23 know -- I think Dale probably said it -- is from
9713
1 Erie County, but the town of Hamburg wouldn't
2 have said that, and you wouldn't have known
3 that. But let me just tell you a tiny bit about
4 Erie County. We kind of divide up into north
5 towns and south towns, and Ron and Beth are from
6 the south towns. Dale is from the east, and I'm
7 from the north towns, but that hasn't at all
8 stopped us from knowing each other and working
9 together and being friends for many years.
10 I'm so happy to see "Rap"
11 Rappleyea here and Ron's friend and colleague
12 Tom Reynolds, who is also another son of the
13 south towns, as it were.
14 Let me tell you little bit about
15 Ron. Ron is one of these people who I think I
16 could pay one of the highest compliments that
17 has ever been said to someone, and it was said
18 about someone recently, and I thought, "Now,
19 there is a phrase you can't say about everyone,"
20 but Ron is one of these people who never met
21 anyone he didn't know. He never met anyone he
22 didn't know, because inside the first five
23 seconds he's established something with you that
9714
1 is of mutual interest and he is drawing you into
2 his circle of light, as it were. This is the
3 Ron Tills, the man that I know.
4 Dale has spoken eloquently about
5 Ron's credentials. Now, I'm going to speak a
6 little bit about the Ron I know. His resume
7 that you have all had the opportunity to look at
8 has no less than 25 civic and fraternal
9 organizations. I have come to know Ron and Beth
10 very closely through a fraternal organization.
11 Ron will be in, I'm sure, proudly so, the
12 Potentate of Ismalia Temple within another year
13 or two. In these kinds of organizations as many
14 of you have served, you know that very often
15 there are leaders who tell people what they
16 think should be done, and the people go out and
17 do them, and that's one kind of leader. There
18 are other kinds of leaders who work with people
19 deciding what needs to be done, and they go out
20 and they work side by side with the people who
21 are doing, quote, "the dog work." That's the
22 kind of leader Ron Tills has always been in his
23 professional and in his personal life. It's a
9715
1 very important quality.
2 Inside the 25 organizations that
3 Ron has listed, there were some that were kind
4 of buried in the middle, and not because Ron
5 wasn't proud of them, but I'm going to talk
6 about them: Hamburg Men's Garden Club, the
7 American Fresh Garlic Association, and the Erie
8 County Farm Bureau.
9 Now, what does that say about Ron
10 Tills, the man? Well, first of all, I have to
11 tell you Ron specializes in garlic and hot
12 peppers. So if any of you have an interest, we
13 have an expert who is about to be on the bench,
14 and he might have a little more time to share
15 some of his expertise. But gardening has long
16 been a simile that people have used in conversa
17 tions to talk about a person's characteristics.
18 There's a gentleness and a caringness about this
19 person, Ron Tills, that comes from his interest,
20 longstanding, in people and in the things of the
21 earth. In the south towns in Erie County is
22 where everything grows. You're right next to
23 Eden Valley, and I had a lot of relatives who
9716
1 were from Eden Valley, so I know about the south
2 towns' interest in growing things.
3 The bench and the bar in Erie
4 County are delighted. You have reason to know
5 that I would have reason to talk with lots of
6 folks from the bench and the bar. When your
7 nomination came through, Ron, the bench and bar
8 were delighted, because they have a way -- and
9 you among lawyers know that they evaluate judges
10 very quickly and very systematically as to how
11 they work with these various judges. You are
12 rated before you even get there as going to be a
13 superb judge, one the bar is delighted to be
14 seeing coming to Erie County, and one that the
15 bench is delighted to welcome as a colleague.
16 And in my final comment, I would
17 indicate -- Senator Larkin mentioned on Judge
18 King's nomination, and it's something that women
19 don't relate to very easily, about the foxhole.
20 This is a man kind of a phrase, but in my office
21 we have a number of women who work together and
22 we periodically get into a political foxhole,
23 and when we're in a foxhole, we point out people
9717
1 that we think would be good to work with when
2 we're in the foxhole, and, Ron, I want you to
3 know you won't be able to go there any more
4 because you are going to be on the bench, but I
5 would have always welcomed you in a foxhole that
6 I had to fight my way out of because you would
7 have been the kind of colleague, and are the
8 kind of colleague, that we've all worked with
9 and I'm sure "Rap" and Tom could attest to that.
10 Good luck, Godspeed, and welcome
11 to the bench.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Maziarz on the nomination.
14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 Mr. President, I rise in support
17 of the nomination of a fine Western New Yorker.
18 As a former County Clerk in Niagara County, I
19 had the occasion to deal with many attorneys in
20 Western New York and when the rumor started
21 circulating shortly after last January 1st that
22 Ron Tills was under consideration for
23 appointment to the Court of Claims, there was
9718
1 probably not any attorney that ever had a
2 negative word to say about Ron. He is very well
3 respected in the legal community not only in
4 Erie County but in all of Western New York and,
5 as Senator Rath has alluded to, a fine record of
6 community service. I see the volunteer fire
7 service in there amongst his work with the
8 Masonic fraternity, the Lion's Club. Just a
9 fine record not only on the bench but of
10 community service.
11 Ron Tills also has the
12 distinction, as Senator Volker mentioned, of
13 starting Senator Volker along the path of his
14 political career. Ron Tills also has that
15 dubious distinction of having given Tom Reynolds
16 his first job in public service. If "Rap"
17 Rappleyea can forgive him for that, I think we
18 can too, Mr. President.
19 I proudly rise in seconding the
20 nomination of Ron Tills.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
22 recognizes Senator Stachowski on the nomination.
23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
9719
1 President, I too rise to second the nomination
2 of Ron Tills.
3 Up until the past reapportionment
4 Ron Tills was a constituent of mine. I had
5 Hamburg. As a Democrat, I probably should be
6 careful what I say because Reynolds is always
7 pointing out how Ron Tills is his mentor, and if
8 you're a Democrat in Erie County, you always
9 have to deal with Reynolds and not always on the
10 most pleasant of terms.
11 So I guess we owe that to Ron
12 Tills. But all that being said, I would have to
13 say that the most important thing I noticed
14 about Ron Tills -- and it's from members that
15 served with him here -- to my knowledge, Ron
16 Tills still holds the land record from Buffalo
17 to Albany on the Thruway in the shortest amount
18 of time, and it's only coincidental that we
19 would be confirming Ron Tills to the bench the
20 day after we did the new Superintendent of the
21 State Police, in light of that record. He often
22 tried to break that record, it's my understand
23 ing and, obviously, from the fact that he's here
9720
1 and in one piece, he did it very safely.
2 Ron Tills is a lawyer that's been
3 very, very well respected in his community. I
4 think that Buffalo Raceway as an institution has
5 leaned on him heavily for his expertise in not
6 only legal matters back home but also when they
7 needed some help in working with the Legislature
8 down here. Besides the delegation, they always
9 had the luxury of having Ron Tills to give them
10 extra advice in who to see, who to talk to, what
11 they should be looking for and I think that,
12 unfortunately, they'll probably miss that, but I
13 wouldn't be surprised if they call him off the
14 record to find out different pieces of advice
15 from him anyway, even though he will be a judge
16 now.
17 I think that Ron Tills will be
18 great judge. He will be an asset to the court,
19 and I'm glad to have the opportunity to second
20 the nomination.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Leichter on the nomination.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
9721
1 I came to this Legislature a long, long, long
2 time ago. I was member of the class of '69 in
3 the Assembly. It was a very interesting class.
4 It had in it somebody who became Speaker,
5 Stanley Fink; a person who became a leading
6 voice in foreign affairs in this country, Steve
7 Solarz, who served in the Congress; we had Peter
8 Berle, a DEC Commissioner and became the
9 National President of the Audubon Club. There
10 was Vito Batista, a strong populist. I don't
11 know how many people remember him. I'm sure
12 those from New York City do. Ray Skuse, who all
13 of us know, who for many years has played such
14 an important role in educational policy in this
15 state. There was Gene Levy, one of the nicest
16 and most productive members this Legislature has
17 ever seen, and there was also Ron Tills, and I
18 remember Ron as somebody with a great deal of
19 energy, intelligence, and fairness, and one of
20 the things is when you are in the minority -
21 some of you have never been there and some of
22 you have probably forgotten what it's like to be
23 in the minority, but you get a pretty good sense
9722
1 of who is fair and who deals with you in a
2 straightforward manner, and that was certainly
3 Ronald Tills.
4 I enjoyed serving with him. I
5 was impressed by the service that he provided to
6 his constituents, and I'm sure that he is going
7 to be an excellent member of the Court of
8 Claims.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Sears on the nomination.
11 SENATOR SEARS: Thank you very
12 much, Mr. President.
13 I'm going to say a few things
14 about Ron Tills; but before I do that, "Rap", I
15 know it's a great day for you, and I'm happy to
16 see you here and guys like Chris Mega and Tommy
17 Reynolds, because we all served with Ron Tills
18 and we scored twice today with former members of
19 the Assembly, and it certainly makes me proud.
20 And, Tommy, yes, I can remember
21 when Ronnie brought you down to Albany. We were
22 up on the 7th floor, and I was right across from
23 you. Mary Goodhue was right next door, as I
9723
1 recall, and Tommy and I were just talking about
2 the great times, just a couple of days ago, that
3 we used to have; and Ronnie, you know, is a
4 great lover of the Adirondacks. He's the only
5 guy that I know that when he goes on a camping
6 trip up there, he gets so many of these cast
7 iron kettles and frying pans in his car that you
8 can hardly tell where he is going, and I see his
9 wife is up there with him, and sometimes he
10 never remembered to get gas ahead of time, so he
11 had to wake me or my brother up in the middle of
12 the night to get to my brother's gas station and
13 diner at one time, but he won't be like that
14 when he gets to be a Court of Claims judge.
15 But I do have to say I've served
16 with Ron from the time that he came to the
17 Assembly right up until the time he left. I'm
18 going to end on this note. He and I had the
19 distinct pleasure and joy of serving not only in
20 the Assembly with the great gentleman, former
21 Senator, and that was Gene Levy, and we both
22 served as roommates with Gene over a long period
23 of years, and most of you know the great Senator
9724
1 that left us back in 1990. When I eulogized him
2 here on the floor, that was after I became a
3 Senator. Gene Levy had died the day he filed
4 his petition to run in 1990, and we looked
5 forward to many years down together down here,
6 but it just didn't happen.
7 So I have to say, Ron, that for
8 "Geno" -- and that was his pet nickname -- who
9 -- Ronnie and I talked just recently. We talk
10 to him every once in awhile. So I'm happy to
11 not only second this nomination for myself,
12 Ronnie, but and also for "Geno", and good luck
13 to you and keep talking to "Geno."
14 Thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
17 nomination?
18 (There was no response.)
19 Hearing none, the question is on
20 the nomination of Ronald H. Tills of Hamburg,
21 New York, to the position of judge of the New
22 York State Court of Claims.
23 All those in favor of the
9725
1 nomination, signify by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The nominee is unanimously
6 confirmed.
7 Judge Tills is in the gallery to
8 your left along with his wife, Beth.
9 Judge Tills, nice to see you
10 again. We're happy for you, sir, and good luck
11 on your appointment. Congratulations.
12 (Applause.)
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
15 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
16 following nomination: Terry Jane Ruderman of
17 Scarsdale, New York State Court of Claims.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
19 recognizes Senator Lack.
20 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 I rise to move the nomination of
23 Terry Jane Ruderman of Scarsdale as a judge of
9726
1 the New York State Court of Claims.
2 Ms. Ruderman, as with our
3 previous nominees this morning, has appeared
4 before the screening committee, has been found
5 qualified, has been nominated by the Governor.
6 Her credentials have been examined by the staff
7 of the Judiciary Committee who also found her
8 well qualified. The nomination was moved to the
9 Judiciary Committee which met this morning. She
10 was unanimously endorsed by the committee with a
11 recommendation to the floor, and I would very
12 proudly yield to the Senator on my left, Senator
13 Nicholas Spano for a second.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Spano on the nomination.
16 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 My colleagues, it is indeed my
19 pleasure to join with Senator Lack in seconding
20 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the
21 Court of Claims. I have known Terry Ruderman
22 for a number of years and have had a chance to
23 see her involvement in Westchester County not
9727
1 only in many different activities affecting our
2 community in Westchester, but also her
3 involvement in the legal profession, starting as
4 an arbitrator in the City Court, moving on as an
5 assistant district attorney to deputy county
6 attorney, as a assistant to the county executive
7 in Westchester and currently serving as the
8 principal law clerk to a Supreme Court judge in
9 the 9th Judicial District.
10 She is someone who's got the
11 credentials, who has distinguished herself in
12 her own career, and it's my pleasure to second
13 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the
14 Court of Claims, and to say, Terry, that today
15 is a proud day for you and for your family and
16 not only for your husband, Jerry, but certainly
17 for your mom and dad who are here as well.
18 And it's my pleasure, Mr.
19 President, to second this nomination to the
20 Court of Claims.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Leibell on the nomination.
23 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Mr.
9728
1 President. I rise to second this nomination and
2 I join with my colleagues Senator Lack and
3 Senator Spano. I think they have both given a
4 recitation, although a very brief one, of Terry
5 Jane Ruderman's excellent credentials for this
6 position.
7 She has had a long and
8 distinguished career as an attorney. She brings
9 to the court a wide variety of background in so
10 many different areas. She also, if you had the
11 opportunity to look at her resume, you will see
12 that not only does she have the training as an
13 attorney, an excellent academic record prior to
14 that, but that she has also acquired throughout
15 her career strong administrative skills which
16 will be of great value to her as a judge and to
17 the court.
18 I'm very pleased to rise on this
19 occasion to second the nomination of Terry Jane
20 Ruderman. She is a tremendous asset to the
21 court and to the entire state of New York, Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
9729
1 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
2 nomination?
3 (There was no response.)
4 Hearing none, the question is on
5 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the
6 position as judge of the Court of Claims.
7 All those in favor of the
8 nomination, signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye.")
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The nominee is unanimously
13 confirmed.
14 We're very pleased to be joined
15 by Judge Ruderman and her husband, Gerald, and
16 her parents, Samuel and Thelma Schwartz, who are
17 in our chamber to our left.
18 Congratulations and good luck.
19 (Applause.)
20 Secretary will read
21
22
23
9730
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
2 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
3 following nomination: John J. Brunetti of
4 Baldwinsville, New York State Court of Claims.
5 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
7 recognizes Senator Lack on the nomination.
8 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 I rise to move the nomination of
11 John J. Brunetti of Baldwinsville as a Judge of
12 the New York State Court of Claims. As with
13 Judge Midey, I can't think of two Senators in
14 this chamber more than Senators Nozzolio and
15 DeFrancisco, who have been contacting me
16 constantly as to the status of potential
17 appointees to the judicial system.
18 I'm proud to stand up to move
19 this nomination. I have examined personally the
20 credentials of Mr. Brunetti, what he has done.
21 He's been examined by the screening committee of
22 the Governor. He's been found qualified,
23 nominated by the Governor, examined by the staff
9731
1 of the committee, appeared before the committee
2 and unanimously confirmed by the committee and
3 moved to this floor, and I can't say anything
4 else because, if I do, Senator DeFrancisco will
5 immediately jump up and interrupt me.
6 So I will very nicely yield to
7 Senator DeFrancisco. Do you want to stand up,
8 John, and say a few words about Mr. Brunetti?
9 Sorry to take your position, Mr.
10 President, but he's already up.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
12 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the
13 nomination.
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm very
15 pleased and proud to stand here today to second
16 the nomination of John J. Brunetti for judge,
17 Court of Claims of the State of New York.
18 I have known John for about 20
19 years now, and we first met when we shared
20 office space as younger attorneys -- maybe not
21 young attorneys -- and we got to know each other
22 very well. During that period of time, I
23 recognized an individual with unquestioned
9732
1 integrity and character. It wasn't until later
2 that I realized the abilities that he had as an
3 attorney, both criminal and civil.
4 This Court of Claims position
5 happens to be a criminal part and, if you look
6 at his resume, you can clearly understand that
7 there can't be anybody more qualified for this
8 position and a person more balanced in his
9 experience.
10 He started off with the Public
11 Defender's Office. He worked as a Chief
12 Assistant District Attorney in Onondaga County.
13 He worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the
14 Northern District of New York. He has taught
15 and still teaches a course at Syracuse
16 University Law School, and he's even been on
17 Court TV -- an incredible background for an
18 incredible person.
19 For many years, I have called him
20 "colleague" and "friend." I'm very proud today
21 to be able to soon call him "Judge."
22 Congratulations, and it's a happy
23 day for all of us.
9733
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
3 nomination?
4 (There was no response.)
5 Hearing none, the question is on
6 the nomination of John J. Brunetti of
7 Baldwinsville, New York, to the position of
8 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims.
9 All those in favor of the
10 nomination, signify by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 Opposed, nay.
13 (There was no response.)
14 The nominee is unanimously
15 confirmed.
16 Judge Brunetti is joining us in
17 the chamber in the gallery to your left, along
18 with his wife, Rockette.
19 Judge, congratulations. We're
20 happy to see you. Good luck.
21 (Applause.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
23 recognizes Senator Larkin.
9734
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
2 believe there is a resolution sponsored by
3 Senator DeFrancisco at the desk. I ask that the
4 title be read and move for its immediate
5 adoption.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Larkin, there is a privileged resolution at the
8 desk. I will ask the Secretary to read the
9 title.
10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
11 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution honoring 60
12 students at the Shea Middle School of the City
13 of Syracuse School District for their
14 participation in the 49th Senate District "Good
15 News Good Kids" Student Recognition Program.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
17 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the
18 resolution.
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 I am honored today to have some
22 students from Shea Middle School from Syracuse,
23 New York, as part of the program that we have in
9735
1 our district honoring good kids, because there's
2 good news out there and we should share it with
3 everyone, that there are young people out there
4 doing what they should be doing.
5 These students are gifted
6 vocalists, and they have shared these talents on
7 a volunteer basis, after hours and on their own
8 time, and doing such things as sing-alongs with
9 kindergarteners and first graders and also
10 providing entertainment at senior citizen
11 functions. They've also done a Martin Luther
12 King tribute, featuring the singing of freedom
13 songs and choral arrangements. They've had
14 programs concerning patriotic music for New York
15 citizens at the swearing in of new citizens of
16 the United States at the courthouse, and it goes
17 on.
18 The point I'm trying to make is
19 that we should pause periodically, as we do
20 today, to honor young people who are doing what
21 they should be doing, and I'm proud to honor
22 today the Shea Middle School.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9736
1 question is on the resolution.
2 All those in favor, signify by
3 saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The resolution is adopted.
8 On behalf of Senator DeFrancisco
9 and Senator Bruno and all the members in the
10 chamber, we welcome the students from the Shea
11 Middle School to the chamber and thanks for
12 being good kids.
13 (Applause.)
14 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin.
15 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
16 would you please call up Calendar Number 728,
17 Senate Print 973C, by Senator Levy, for the
18 purpose of opening the rolls for two people.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the title of Calendar Number 728.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act
23 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
9737
1 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by
2 persons under the age of 21.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
4 will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This
6 act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Trunzo.
13 SENATOR RATH: Aye. Senator
14 Rath, aye.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Rath will be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Senator Trunzo.
18 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Trunzo will be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Roll call is withdrawn.
22 Senator Larkin.
23 SENATOR LARKIN: Let's take up
9738
1 the controversial calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3 will read the controversial calendar, beginning
4 with Calendar Number 130, by Senator Cook.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
6 SENATOR COOK: Lay the bill aside
7 for the day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
9 130 will be laid aside for the day at the
10 request of the sponsor.
11 Secretary will continue to call
12 the controversial calendar.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act
15 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
16 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by
17 persons under the age of 21.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy
22 has already -
23 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside.
9739
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy
4 has already laid the bill aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you
6 for the acknowledgment, Senator Paterson.
7 Secretary will continue to call
8 the controversial calendar.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218A, an act
11 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira,
12 county of Chemung, to transfer parklands.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 a home rule message at the desk.
15 Secretary will read the last
16 section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9740
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4009A, an
4 act to amend -
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 993, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5009, an
10 act to amend Administrative Code of the city of
11 New York, in relation to access to correct
12 housing maintenance code violation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Leibell, an explanation of Calendar Number 993,
15 Senate Print 5009, has been asked for.
16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President,
17 this legislation will allow a landlord to
18 correct violations of the housing maintenance
19 code where a tenant has denied the landlord
20 access to the unit and where the violation has
21 occurred or where access is necessary to correct
22 the violation.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9741
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
3 President. If the sponsor will yield for a
4 question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Leibell, will you yield to Senator Paterson?
7 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 yields.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I am
11 reminded of Calendar 994 which we passed on
12 Monday. It's very similar in its approach, so I
13 hope you will yield for a question, and I hope
14 you will understand that the question is very
15 similar to what I asked you on Monday.
16 First of all, how are you going
17 to pay for this bill? And replete with that,
18 you might want to also inform us as to how you
19 think this is actually going to clear up
20 congestion in the court system when there are
21 going to be enough hearings and enough activity
22 in here that will further clog the court system
23 from my point of view.
9742
1 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President.
2 Could I get some order in here?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
4 missing my big gavel, Senator Leibell, but your
5 point is very well taken. It is very noisy.
6 Ask the members -- we're now
7 commencing the controversial calendar. There's
8 going to be serious debate on a number of
9 issues. Could we please quiet it down so that
10 the members can participate in this and hear
11 what their other colleague is saying.
12 If there are staff discussions,
13 please take them out of the chamber.
14 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator
15 Paterson.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Leibell for a response.
18 SENATOR LEIBELL: I'm going to
19 ask Senator Paterson if he could just ask me
20 that question again, because I -- even standing
21 this close, I couldn't hear him that well.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson, could you please present the question
9743
1 to Senator Leibell? Again, he yields to the
2 question.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 Actually, it was an auditory
6 hallucination, and I don't know if I can repeat
7 the question, but it relates to the congestion
8 in the Housing Court system.
9 Under this legislation with the
10 types of hearings that would be necessary, I am
11 contending that it will clog the Housing Court
12 further, and I wanted Senator Leibell, Mr.
13 President, to explain how he feels this will
14 alleviate the caseload in the Housing Court
15 system.
16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I
17 believe that this bill before us today will, in
18 fact, reduce some of the burdens on the Housing
19 Court because I think we will be able to correct
20 some of the problems that we are confronting in
21 a more timely fashion. There is no question
22 that the Housing Court has had a good deal of
23 backlog. There is no question that it's a court
9744
1 -- I think all sides have agreed this -- that
2 could withstand some serious scrutiny as to how
3 to improve its workload.
4 This legislation, far from adding
5 to that burden, I think will go a long way
6 probably towards addressing that problem and
7 will expedite proceedings within the Court
8 itself.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
12 President, and through you, Mr. President.
13 Senator Leibell, how would we
14 verify that the tenant is not giving the
15 landlord access to the actual apartment?
16 SENATOR LEIBELL: As you can tell
17 from the bill, the court will summon the tenant
18 in to court and the tenant at that point in time
19 will have the opportunity to explain to the
20 court whether, in fact, he has been giving
21 access. In other words, there will be, in
22 effect, a hearing.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
9745
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leibell, do you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 continues to yield.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
8 Leibell, now the tenant has been summoned to
9 court. We don't know that the tenant has denied
10 the landlord access. So the tenant likely
11 misses a day of work. The tenant has been
12 burdened by having to come to court. The tenant
13 risks a fine if the tenant doesn't cooperate
14 with the court, and we have yet to establish a
15 finding that the tenant ever denied the landlord
16 access to the premises.
17 So I'm just asking whether or not
18 this bill is somewhat pecuniary in its effect on
19 the tenant.
20 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I
21 think in the vast, vast majority of the cases,
22 we are going to find that landlords are going to
23 want to fix their establishments, their units,
9746
1 as quickly as they possibly can. They are not
2 going to be desirous of spending any time in
3 court. It stretches the imagination to think
4 that that be a severe problem. Landlords are
5 going to want to come in to court only when they
6 have been denied access. They are going to want
7 to come in, in order to get access so that they
8 can quickly remedy the problem, and I think many
9 other tenants will benefit from this also.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 Thank Senator Leibell for his
15 answer, and if Senator Leibell will continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Leibell, do you continue to yield?
19 The Senator yields.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
21 Leibell, with the exception of small property
22 owners, I would say that the landlord through
23 his or her attorneys is often represented in
9747
1 court every day and what I'm suggesting is that,
2 if you want to raise the threshold of penalty,
3 that the threshold be raised uniformly.
4 I don't see in your legislation
5 any restrictions or fines applied to the
6 landlord for the exact noncompliance for which
7 you have levied a penalty on the tenant. Can
8 you explain to those of us in the chamber why it
9 is that you haven't created that sort of equal
10 penalty for the violation of what would be
11 something that is, first of all, hard to prove;
12 but secondly, if we're going to accept it, then
13 why aren't we going to apply it to both sides of
14 the complaint?
15 SENATOR LEIBELL: In the first
16 place, when you say with the exception of small
17 landlords, there is an implication, I believe,
18 there that there are a limited number of small
19 landlords. In fact, there are many thousands of
20 landlords in the city.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr.
22 President, if I could just interrupt. In making
23 that point, I was not in any way trying to
9748
1 diminish that number. I was just trying to
2 distinguish the landlords who I think would be
3 affected. So, in other words, I'm not really
4 disputing you on that.
5 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator,
6 there's also provisions that provide for
7 penalties for landlords that do not fix their
8 units and do not repair them as they should.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, but Mr.
12 President, we are talking about attendance, and
13 this is a new area that Senator Leibell is
14 actually approaching through this piece of
15 legislation; and so what I'm saying is that, if
16 we are going to set up a law, which is what we
17 are enacting in this kind of chamber, I don't
18 think it's really fair to say that because there
19 is a subjective determination right now that the
20 laws are levied in such a way that they are more
21 beneficial to the landlord than the tenant, so
22 now we're going to make a law that's going to
23 hurt the tenants, and then we're going to say in
9749
1 the greater scheme of law that balances out.
2 We're in a whole new area of law,
3 so I think that there is a duty on the lawmaker
4 to make sure that the coverage is uniform. If
5 there is a feeling that in the past that the
6 laws have, in a sense, been balanced in favor of
7 either party, then perhaps we need to go back
8 and correct those laws.
9 But, Senator, you are addressing
10 a new area. You are addressing court
11 attendance, and this is something that I would
12 recommend be applied fairly in this particular
13 case, and I think we would both notice from
14 reading that bill that that doesn't -- it
15 doesn't exist in this bill.
16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I
17 think what we're trying -- I know what we're
18 trying to address here is a problem that many
19 perceive to be quite substantial in the New York
20 City housing market especially. It's a problem
21 that impacts on the Housing Court system.
22 This legislation is not a new
23 concept. This legislation, in fact, has been
9750
1 before this house on previous occasions.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
5 President.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
8 recognizes Senator Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Will Senator
10 Leibell yield to a question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Leibell, do you yield to Senator Gold?
13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 yields.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, one of
17 the advantages, real advantages of having a
18 citizen legislature is that people from all
19 walks of life come here and we bring problems
20 from the community, and we all talk it out and
21 look for solutions, and I understand the problem
22 that you are talking about.
23 However, once we acknowledge that
9751
1 there's a problem, unfortunately, we do get into
2 some legal machinations; and there is a memo
3 that was filed by the New York State Tenants and
4 Neighbors Coalition which discusses problems.
5 It doesn't say that there is no way that we can
6 ever deal with the problem from the side you're
7 looking at, but it acknowledges that there are
8 issues which are not taken care of; and my
9 question is a very broad one, but why is it that
10 the bill does not -- I mean you indicated it was
11 here before. It was here in '94.
12 Have any of the concerns listed
13 by the tenants been taken care of in this '95
14 print?
15 SENATOR LEIBELL: Actually, I
16 think there was an amendment in the '95 print
17 which provided for the hearing aspect of it. I
18 think that's a change from the prior year's
19 print.
20 SENATOR GOLD: What do you mean
21 the hearing aspect?
22 SENATOR LEIBELL: That you can
23 come into court and it's not, in effect, ex
9752
1 parte. You can be summoned into court, and the
2 tenant will have an opportunity to be heard on
3 this.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator,
5 when you say the tenant will have an opportunity
6 to be heard, the concern -- if the Senator will
7 yield to another question?
8 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 continues to yield, Senator Gold.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I have
12 spoken over the years with lawyers who deal in
13 this area. For example, there may be a minor
14 issue between a landlord and tenant, and they go
15 to court. Why? Because from the landlord's
16 point of view, they're afraid of a precedent, so
17 a landlord will pay big fees to a lawyer even
18 though the tenant's rent is a small amount
19 because they are afraid of precedents.
20 From the tenants' point of view,
21 what are they concerned about? Most of the
22 tenants that you are talking about are working
23 people. In today's market, in today's real
9753
1 world, we have two working parents in many, many
2 homes. They are concerned about this word
3 called "harassment," being taken away from their
4 job and losing a day's pay. While everything
5 goes on in the hearing, they are losing money.
6 They can't face the big landlord in their mind.
7 Is there any protection that the
8 landlord, for example, has to do something
9 before the tenant ever gets drawn in?
10 SENATOR LEIBELL: There's this
11 protection, in that, I think there is a logical
12 one to this extent, that I think it would be a
13 very rare occasion when that series of facts
14 that you just cite would occur but, in addition
15 to which, you are going to have the opportunity,
16 once you come in, to have that hearing in front
17 of the court, and I might add the landlord also
18 has to come in so that landlord, he or she, may
19 be similarly impacted, and there will be costs
20 involved. That's true of parties to any
21 litigation.
22 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill, Mr.
23 President.
9754
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Gold, on the bill.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I don't
4 think there is any thinking person in the room
5 who really does not understand the bill,
6 Senator, and what you are trying to accomplish.
7 But the problem is that in an
8 open society, an open forum, we get input from
9 all segments of society and, generally speaking,
10 in those situations where we have success in the
11 legislative process, we deal with both sides,
12 and we talk it out and, Senator, I'm not
13 convinced -- through no fault of yours, I guess,
14 but I'm not convinced that there has been an
15 attempt to take the bill and make it fair so
16 that in those situations -- and believe me,
17 Senator, there are probably more than you think
18 in the city of New York -- where landlords want,
19 for economic reasons, to move tenants around and
20 about and to harass tenants, that those
21 protections on their side have not been built
22 into the bill. If they were, I think some of us
23 would take a look and want to be fair.
9755
1 I always hear from the landlord
2 lobby that, you know, "Well, you're pro tenant"
3 or "You're pro..." this. Unfortunately, up
4 here, everybody is labeling everybody, but I
5 like to think most of us are fair, and we would
6 take a look at some of these bills if they were
7 sort of drawn down the middle and given the
8 opportunity of this side or that side to do what
9 was equitable.
10 So, Senator, I'm not saying that
11 there is not a problem that you are dealing
12 with. I'm only concerned that in dealing with
13 your side of the problem, your bill eliminates
14 the other side, and that's why I would find it
15 difficult to support it.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Solomon.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
20 me, Senator Solomon, before you embark upon your
21 debate -
22 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President.
23 Would you lay the bill aside temporarily.
9756
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
2 want to lay the bill aside?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside
4 temporarily.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 will be laid aside temporarily.
7 Secretary will continue to call
8 the controversial calendar.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1214, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1736A, an
11 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the
12 Public Service Law, in relation to the
13 definition of special franchise property.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1214
16 has been asked for by the Acting Minority
17 Leader, Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Leichter, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
22 just on a matter of clarification, for some
23 weeks now I've heard you refer to the
9757
1 distinguished Deputy Minority Leader as "acting
2 minority leader," somehow indicating as if he
3 were a pretender or holding this seat just for a
4 short period of time. I believe his correct
5 title is Deputy Minority Leader and, because he
6 has served with such distinction, I think we
7 ought to recognize his full title.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your
9 admonishment is well taken, Senator Leichter. I
10 was trying to promote him, not demote him or
11 denigrate him in any way or another.
12 So, Senator Larkin, an
13 explanation of Calendar Number 1214 has been
14 asked for by the Deputy Minority Leader, Senator
15 Paterson.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
17 it's my honor to respond to the Deputy Minority
18 Leader who's been so distinguished since he
19 started the session.
20 Senator, this is an extension of
21 the exemption of central office equipment of
22 telephone companies from real property tax that
23 was done back in '85 and 1987. This equipment
9758
1 is approximately a foot square, can accommodate
2 many small customers if located on a telephone
3 pole in a right of way. As long as it's inside
4 the building, it's currently exempt. If they
5 move it outside, it's a greater asset.
6 Last year, as you might remember,
7 Senator Paterson, the Conference of Mayors had
8 put an objection to it. We still passed it.
9 This year, they have given us a letter they
10 lifted their objection.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, Mr.
14 President, I would like to compliment Senator
15 Larkin, who I often engage in debate here, but
16 he has amended the bill and if he would just
17 yield for this one question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: As the bill
9759
1 stands amended, which addresses some of the
2 concerns that I had -- in fact, it addresses
3 basically all the concerns that I had. The only
4 question I would like to ask you is what the
5 fiscal impact will be to local governments.
6 What will it cost local governments to actually
7 endure the enactment of this legislation?
8 SENATOR LARKIN: As far as we're
9 defining it, we don't feel that there will be
10 anything because this is prospectively, and that
11 was the big issue that the association of the
12 Conference of Mayors wanted.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
14 Senator. On the bill, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Paterson, on the bill.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: I won't even,
18 in the interest of time, go into what it
19 actually was, because it was addressed in the
20 amendment, and we thank Senator Larkin for
21 taking our concerns up.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will read the last section.
9760
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1272, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 3486A, an
11 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
12 relation to the powers of the Dormitory
13 Authority.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
15 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside
16 temporarily.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside temporarily.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1284, by Member of the Assembly Dinowitz,
21 Assembly Print 5975, an act to amend the Mental
22 Hygiene Law, in relation to service as president
23 of boards of visitors.
9761
1 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside temporarily.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A, an
6 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
7 enacting the engineers' and architects' good
8 Samaritan act.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside temporarily.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1287, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5238, an
14 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
15 to quality assurance of managed care plans.
16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside temporarily.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an
21 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
22 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully
23 admitted aliens.
9762
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 1292
4 has been asked for by the Deputy Minority
5 Leader.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
7 President. I think everyone is familiar with
8 the federal requirement that a legal alien seek
9 a sponsor's agreement which provides for econo
10 mic support of that individual for a limited
11 period when entering this country. Consistent
12 with that federal law, in 1977, New York State
13 enacted a provision of the Social Services Law
14 containing a deeming provision addressing that
15 very issue, namely, that a sponsor would be
16 available to a legal alien for a period of three
17 years after his entry into the United States.
18 Subsequent -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm trying to
22 give you an explanation, Senator. I'm not quite
23 through yet. Do you want me to finish?
9763
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay.
3 Subsequent to that, in 1992 a landmark case
4 known as Mannino versus Perales occurred in New
5 York State which said that that 1977 provision
6 in state law was in violation of our state
7 Constitution. In effect, it eliminated any
8 requirement provided for in federal law uniquely
9 to New York State of the economic responsibility
10 of a sponsor and a sponsor's affidavit for the
11 three-year period. That's the history.
12 Now, the bill before us seeks to
13 eliminate that anomaly in a very, very limited
14 way. What the bill says is, number one, that we
15 would like a legal alien to seek out that
16 sponsor to the extent of that sponsor providing
17 what previously had been law, support for the
18 several years required; but acknowledging the
19 Mannino versus Perales case, we state very
20 directly that, if that sponsor is unable to
21 provide the support engendered in the sponsor's
22 agreement, is no longer in the state, and so on,
23 then that person is able to receive full social
9764
1 services benefits provided in this state.
2 So it's really an effort, to some
3 degree, to make that sponsor or the legal alien
4 aware that there was certainly not only an im
5 plied but a federally statutory responsibility,
6 but we acknowledge the Mannino case by taking
7 out the mandate.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 I see this as a law that we would
13 be enacting that's going to be very similar to a
14 law that we have on the books. It's really just
15 going to shift the burden of proof, and I would
16 like to engage Senator Padavan in a couple
17 questions.
18 But what I would like to do
19 preliminarily is to advise you, Mr. President,
20 that the Minority expects to call a slow roll
21 call on this particular bill, and we had this
22 situation come up with Senator Leibell a moment
23 ago on Calendar Number 993. If we're not going
9765
1 to accommodate the slow roll call, we will
2 probably be not using the time well going
3 through the discussion and then laying the bill
4 aside, so what I would like to ask Senator
5 Padavan is, would he like to lay the bill aside
6 or is he ready to go through the whole
7 discussion?
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside,
9 Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an
14 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in
15 relation to compensation for injury or damage.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
17 I ask the sponsor to yield.
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside temporarily.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an
23 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
9766
1 relation to the exclusion of illegal aliens from
2 receiving publicly funded health care.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
4 on this particular bill, if you would yield to
5 Senator Espada, he has a couple of questions
6 that he would like to ask, but we are going to
7 wind up in the same circumstance that they were
8 in before.
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you saying
10 that -- if I may ask the Deputy Minority Leader,
11 are you planning on a slow roll call on this
12 bill as well?
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
14 would prefer "supreme commander".
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry?
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
17 would prefer "supreme commander".
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: How about the
19 allied supreme commander?
20 Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside.
23 Secretary will continue to call
9767
1 the controversial calendar.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1297, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3093.
4 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1299, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 3520,
9 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
10 relation to the transportation of certain
11 persons.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Before I go
16 through an explanation, I would just like to
17 advise the chamber that the Majority Leader has
18 been here the past three mornings letting us
19 know that he would like to leave on June 15, and
20 we are making every effort to accommodate him
21 with respect to the fact that we would like to
22 debate the bills. We are also trying to do
23 that. So there is no attempt on this side of
9768
1 the aisle to cause any delay or any inconven
2 ience, but we are ready to go forward on these
3 bills and we just keep laying them aside, and
4 I'm just looking for some direction from you,
5 Mr. President, or from anyone as to exactly what
6 our process should be right now.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're on
8 Calendar Number 1299. Senator DeFrancisco is
9 poised and ready for debate. If you would like
10 to ask for an explanation or question, he is in
11 a position to do that, Senator Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, then I'm
13 poised and ready for an explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 DeFrancisco, Senator Paterson, the Deputy
16 Minority Leader, has asked for an explanation of
17 Calendar Number 1299.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes,
19 Calendar 1299 is a bill that would basically
20 require individuals in need of transportation on
21 public assistance to use the public transporta
22 tion as a first alternative unless the depart
23 ment finds -- that's Department of Social
9769
1 Services -- finds that such means of public
2 transportation are unavailable or that the
3 nature and severity of the recipient's illness
4 necessitates a mode of transportation other than
5 by public transportation.
6 The theory behind this obviously
7 is to try to save some money by eliminating
8 transportation costs from a much more costly
9 source; but, secondly, we have had occasion in
10 this body to provide assistance by way of grants
11 to public transportation, and I know we've done
12 it to Centro, which is our public transportation
13 system in Central New York, and it seems sort of
14 odd that we wouldn't encourage or, in this case,
15 require people who are receiving state funds to
16 use public transportation so that we are
17 assisting not only the state in saving money but
18 assisting the transportation systems and,
19 hopefully, avoid us having to continually
20 provide more funds because of shortfalls in
21 operating funds for public transportation. So
22 it has that twofold effect, and that's the
23 purpose of the bill.
9770
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Jones.
3 SENATOR JONES: Will the sponsor
4 yield to a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Jones?
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR JONES: As you know, my
9 other interest in life is emergency medicine. I
10 just want a clarification, Senator DeFrancisco,
11 because I personally am aware of the abuses of
12 the system. I mean as far as ambulances are
13 concerned, people use that as transportation as
14 opposed to driving themselves or whatever.
15 What would happen, though, under
16 your bill if an emergency service is called if
17 clearly the case was not an emergency? Would
18 then the payment be denied and the company be
19 held? What would happen then?
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would
21 assume that the -- the most important thing is
22 that the emergency be responded to. I would
23 interpret this as not applying to emergency
9771
1 services, because you would basically provide an
2 incentive for emergency services not to respond
3 as quickly to certain individuals, and that's
4 not the intent of this.
5 The intent is the doctor's
6 visit. The intent is a situation where it's not
7 an emergency situation to take the most
8 economical method of transportation unless the
9 nature of the injury or the illness prevents
10 that.
11 SENATOR JONES: Could the sponsor
12 just yield to another question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR JONES: I guess my other
16 question is, you know, as I say, I'm very
17 supportive of you on this issue because I see
18 this abuse personally.
19 But would a determination -
20 let's say the person calls the ambulance. As we
21 know, they have to respond. But, after the
22 fact, it turns out the case was not an
23 emergency. Clearly they could have driven.
9772
1 There won't be a determination at that point not
2 to pay, let's say, if it's a commercial service,
3 and I know many, even, of the volunteers are
4 doing third-party billing. Would there be
5 after-the-fact determination that they're not
6 going to get paid because it really wasn't an
7 emergency?
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think
9 there would be a determination of the local
10 Department of Social Services because, as the
11 exception states in this legislation, unless the
12 Department finds that such means are unavailable
13 to the recipient, and so forth.
14 I would assume that the
15 Department of Social Services representative
16 would not penalize an emergency services
17 provider because of the abuse made by an
18 individual, when one was not needed, but -- and
19 I think I should leave it at that, because I
20 think it's to be administered by the local
21 Department of Social Services.
22 SENATOR JONES: Thank you,
23 Senator.
9773
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In any
2 event, that was clearly not the intent.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Solomon, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr.
6 President. Will Senator DeFrancisco yield,
7 please?
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 yields.
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, in
12 this legislation, are we basically dealing with
13 ambulet services, as I'm looking at this, in
14 other words, to take someone to the doctor or
15 take someone back, or is this emergency
16 services?
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Any
18 transportation. It may be transportation for a
19 doctor's visit; it may be transportation -
20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, under
21 Medicaid. That's what I assume this bill deals
22 with is ambulet services, transportation
23 services.
9774
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It deals
2 with that as well.
3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Correct.
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If there is
5 no reason for the individual not to be able to
6 take -- or medical reason -- no medical reason
7 for the individual not to take the less
8 expensive method of transportation, then that
9 should be taken.
10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
11 if Senator DeFrancisco will yield, please?
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 continues to yield.
15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, as I
16 understand the memo, and correct me if I'm
17 wrong, the memo is basically stating that we
18 have to pass this legislation in order to meet
19 federal requirements for reimbursement?
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If I can
21 find the memo, I will address it.
22 That's correct.
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
9775
1 if Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield?
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 continues to yield.
5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if we
6 don't pass this bill, are we in danger of losing
7 federal reimbursement funds?
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't
9 think so in view of what was passed in the
10 budget this year. There is a much looser
11 language in the budget that probably would
12 follow the federal requirements. The language
13 in the budget basically tells the Department of
14 Social Services to come up with the most
15 economical means of transportation, and it's
16 broad, general language.
17 This bill mandates the Department
18 of Social Services to provide -- mandates
19 recipients to use the least expensive method of
20 transportation. This is a firmer bill. It's
21 more mandatory than the broad discretion that
22 the budget gave to the Department of Social
23 Services, and I think that what we did in the
9776
1 budget is enough to satisfy federal
2 requirements.
3 This bill, by the way, was
4 drafted as was the memo before the budget bills
5 were printed.
6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President.
7 If Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield?
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 continues to yield.
11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, my
12 understanding of the services, and I'm going to
13 basically -- I'm dealing with ambulet services
14 and what they call car services which is a taxi
15 service in the city of New York, and it's for
16 Medicaid patients -- is that the doctor will
17 generally make the determination as to the type
18 of service that is required. How is this -- in
19 other words, the doctor will make the
20 determination as to whether Patient A needs an
21 ambulet or a car service, an ambulet costing
22 $45, I believe, and a car service costing $15.
23 How would this alter that
9777
1 process, because this says, "the most in
2 expensive way"? Is the onus going to be put on
3 the doctor or the Medicaid recipient; and when
4 is Social Services going to review that
5 decision? That's what I'm concerned about.
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The
7 ultimate determination of whether an exception
8 is present will be with the department because
9 the legislation says unless the department finds
10 that such means is medically unsound.
11 Obviously, I would assume that
12 the Department of Social Services representative
13 would take into account medical records and
14 physicians' orders in making that determination,
15 but I think what we're dealing with here -- the
16 intent of this is basically to provide a mandate
17 for those who presently do not use public
18 transportation and could use public
19 transportation.
20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
21 if Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield.
22 I agree with -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9778
1 Senator continues to yield.
2 SENATOR SOLOMON: I agree with
3 the goal you're trying to reach. My question is
4 in terms of reaching that goal, we have an
5 administrative process and a bureaucracy, and
6 the problem that I have and I'm trying to
7 understand how it works is if John Doe is to see
8 Dr. Smith and in the past John Doe would take a
9 car service to see Dr. Smith and there is public
10 transportation available, who is going to be
11 responsible if John Doe continues to take that
12 car service to Dr. Smith for regular visits and
13 then three months down the road, the Department
14 of Social Services says, "Wait a minute. John
15 Doe should have been taking public
16 transportation."
17 Is it Dr. Smith who authorized -
18 is it Dr. Smith who does the authorization of
19 the transportation method or is it John Doe, the
20 Medicaid recipient, and then is Social Services
21 going to say he's not going to get paid? That's
22 my problem. Who are they going to point the
23 finger at and say, "You shouldn't take public
9779
1 transportation", and what's going to happen to
2 that individual when they point the finger? If
3 they made a decision beforehand, I could
4 understand it.
5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well,
6 presumably, if the Department of Social Services
7 is doing what they should in managing case files
8 for each of the recipients, these decisions
9 would be made ahead of time, and if they're not
10 made ahead of time, then someone in the
11 Department of Social Services is going to have
12 to make a determination.
13 I would -- my interpretation of
14 this would be that, in the event that a
15 Department of Social -- the authorization was
16 made by a physician prior to the service being
17 rendered and thereafter it's being reviewed, it
18 would be my belief that the Department of Social
19 Services would pay that and subsequent payments
20 would be subject to whatever mandate the
21 department determined as to that specific
22 individual.
23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you.
9780
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Abate.
3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I think we
4 all agree -- would Senator DeFrancisco yield to
5 a question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Abate?
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Absolutely.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR ABATE: I think we
12 understand the intent of this bill and I applaud
13 you, but I'm concerned about two populations,
14 the disabled and seniors, and clearly we've
15 outlined that, if transportation is unavailable,
16 that's an exception or the nature of the illness
17 will be taken into consideration, and
18 emergencies, one can get there any way that's
19 convenient. I assume emergencies is also an
20 exception, medical emergencies, is that
21 correct?
22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Correct.
23 SENATOR ABATE: I guess my
9781
1 problem is, and I need some clarification, if
2 I'm a senior and I just don't like taking public
3 transportation, it may be three blocks away, but
4 I'm afraid, I've been a victim of a crime, and I
5 don't want to walk those three blocks and I have
6 a next-door neighbor who has agreed -- who stays
7 home, has agreed to take me around by car. What
8 happens in that situation? I haven't taken
9 public transportation for ten years. I was
10 mugged on the way to the subway. I have an
11 enormous fear. I'm 75 years old. What happens
12 in that case?
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: What
14 happens is that case, since the neighbor was
15 kind enough to provide the transportation,
16 nobody would have to pay.
17 SENATOR ABATE: There's no -
18 under the current situation, is that neighbor
19 reimbursed for expenses?
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not that I
21 know of. Not that I know of.
22 SENATOR ABATE: And how about -
23 my second question is the disabled person is not
9782
1 facing necessarily an illness but the
2 condition. You have no exception for the
3 disabled here. Would they also have to go
4 through a bureaucratic process, call up -
5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Unless the
6 department finds that such means of public
7 transportation are unavailable or that the
8 nature and severity of the illness necessitates
9 a mode of transportation other than by such
10 means.
11 SENATOR ABATE: But the disabled
12 person, every time they wanted to go to a doctor
13 would have to do something proactive; even
14 though the condition isn't going to change, they
15 would have to notify Social Services and, in
16 fact, get permission before they can take
17 alternative transportation.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. I
19 don't think that's the case, especially in the
20 case of a person with a disability. Someone is
21 going to be reviewing that case file and a
22 determination is going to be made as to what
23 services are available or to be provided, what
9783
1 transportation is authorized under those
2 situations.
3 The difficult part of the statute
4 is the emergency situation because you can't
5 predetermine those services, and that's where
6 discretion has to be with the Department of
7 Social Services to pay for those emergency
8 services at least in the first instance, but as
9 far as the disabled individual, I would presume
10 that someone is in charge of the case file and
11 in that case file, there should be a perdeter
12 mination as to what mode of transportation would
13 be authorized under what circumstances.
14 SENATOR ABATE: And you -- but
15 it's not written in the bill that there's a
16 capacity of Social Services to make a
17 predetermination so as to avoid an individual
18 every time they need to get medical care, seek
19 the advice of the department, because I'm
20 concerned, not only the burden placed on seniors
21 and the disabled, but also the bureaucratic
22 morass that will be created through this bill.
23 I just don't know whether it's spelled out in
9784
1 this legislation.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The
3 Department of -- I don't imagine -- I think the
4 discretion here is with the Department of Social
5 Services. The ultimate determination is with
6 the department. I can't imagine that the
7 preferred process by the Department of Social
8 Services would be to do it by a visit-by-visit
9 determination. The intent is the Department of
10 Social Services is going to determine when
11 transportation can be done by public
12 transportation, which is the most likely in
13 situations where it's not an emergency and
14 there's no disability or no illness that would
15 preclude that, and that's the intent of it.
16 We can find exceptions or
17 difficulties in any piece of legislation, but
18 the intent is for the department to review these
19 cases initially, make a determination and, if
20 someone is authorized for doctors' visits to go
21 by public transportation only, they should do
22 that. If it's an emergency situation and
23 there's a wrong call by the person because they
9785
1 felt it was an emergency, well, I would believe
2 that the Department of Social Services would
3 recognize that that was a situation that was not
4 the intent of this particular legislation.
5 SENATOR ABATE: Would the Senator
6 yield -- continue to yield?
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator continues to yield.
10 SENATOR ABATE: Obviously, we as
11 a Legislature don't want to micro-manage the
12 department, but it seems to me it might be
13 helpful to the department in terms of guidelines
14 to add a section dealing with seniors and
15 disabled around preconditions so there could be
16 a predetermination and that to avoid
17 administrative -- administrative gridlock and an
18 inordinate inconvenience to seniors and
19 disabled.
20 Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the last section. Excuse
23 me.
9786
1 Senator Smith.
2 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
3 Would the sponsor yield for one
4 question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 DeFrancisco yields.
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
8 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
9 Have you determined or have you
10 thought about how this bill might complicate the
11 district's federal mandate to provide medical -
12 medical transportation?
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How it
14 would compromise it?
15 SENATOR SMITH: How it would
16 complicate.
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't
18 think it does. I think the bill basically
19 mandates the least expensive transportation
20 costs considering whatever the medical condition
21 might be, and I think that's the intent of the
22 federal government as well.
23 SENATOR SMITH: Would you -
9787
1 would the sponsor yield for another question?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yeah.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator continues to yield.
7 SENATOR SMITH: Okay. If a
8 person is incapacitated in a wheelchair or using
9 a walker, that person isn't necessarily ill but
10 would need special transportation. Your bill
11 states only if a person is ill. How would you
12 provide for that person in a wheelchair or a
13 walker?
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I
15 would imagine -- once again, because the
16 Department of Social Services has to manage this
17 on a day-to-day basis, it would depend upon the
18 availability and the type of transportation. In
19 Syracuse through Centro, we're fortunate enough
20 to have buses that do have wheelchair lifts.
21 Other jurisdictions might not have the number
22 that we have, and it would depend upon what
23 services are available. So under those -
9788
1 SENATOR SMITH: Will the sponsor
2 continue to yield?
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
4 SENATOR SMITH: Have you ridden
5 on any of these buses lately?
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.
7 SENATOR SMITH: Are you aware
8 that most of the bus drivers don't have keys for
9 the handicapped ramps?
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not in
11 Syracuse, that's not the case.
12 SENATOR SMITH: You haven't been
13 in the city of New York recently or rode on
14 their transportation, have you?
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, then
16 that's the fault of the administrators in New
17 York City, not the fault of the legislation. I
18 think if bus drivers don't have the bus keys, I
19 don't think we should in the Legislature do a
20 law that says bus drivers shall have keys,
21 because that's pretty common sense. If the
22 public transportation people are not doing it,
23 whoever is supervising them should make sure
9789
1 they're doing it.
2 SENATOR SMITH: Well, Mr.
3 DeFran... the next time one of your appointees
4 comes up to the MTA, we'll take that up with
5 them.
6 However, the question still
7 stands. How would the services be provided,
8 because you're not going to have a social worker
9 assigned to every individual, and if they have
10 to make a determination quickly, you would need
11 someone assigned to each individual
12 practically. It's just an impossibility.
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't
14 think that's the case at all. The Department of
15 Social Services can issue regulations consistent
16 with the statute that say if these particular
17 circumstances exist, you're going to see a
18 doctor on a non-emergency visit, on a regular
19 call, you take public transportation unless
20 you're disabled or unless it's an emergency
21 and -
22 SENATOR SMITH: But your bill
23 doesn't provide for that.
9790
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Any -
2 regulations are promulgated by every department
3 and in -- in providing the specifics of
4 following through with a piece of legislation,
5 and I think that under these circumstances,
6 those regulations would also be done.
7 SENATOR SMITH: Would the sponsor
8 yield for one more question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR SMITH: Would you be -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR SMITH: Would you be
18 willing to take another look at your legislation
19 and provide for those areas which are not
20 provided for?
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would be
22 more than happy to take another look at it. I
23 would like to pass this today and we can amend
9791
1 it at a later date, but I will definitely look
2 at those areas you brought up, and Senator
3 Libous brought something to my attention that by
4 1997, all modes of public transportation are
5 supposed to have wheelchair accessible to the
6 ADA.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
8 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Gold, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator
12 DeFrancisco indicated that he wanted to pass it
13 today. I thought if there's some concern about
14 that, why don't we have the slow roll call right
15 now and move it along.
16 SENATOR SMITH: Okay.
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In the
18 spirit of cooperation, as Senator Gold always
19 is, if he chooses to do that, that's up to the
20 Majority Leader whether he wants to put everyone
21 through that, but it's up to the Majority Leader
22 whether he wants to go through a slow roll. If
23 he does, that's fine. If he doesn't, that's
9792
1 fine with me as well.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Paterson, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Before we
5 actually get to that question, I'm going to
6 yield to Senator Gold in a moment to take that
7 up. I just wanted to ask a specific question on
8 the legislation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 DeFrancisco, will you yield to Senator
11 Paterson?
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I
13 will.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
17 DeFrancisco, Senator Smith asked you a question
18 about the bus drivers and the keys in New York
19 City and your answer was that that's really the
20 fault of the administrator, and I guess that is
21 a correct answer; but what I'm asking you is
22 when we draft legislation, we're not drafting
23 legislation in the dark. In other words, she's
9793
1 bringing information to the chamber that it may
2 be hard to adhere to the new regulations that
3 would be promulgated through this legislation,
4 and what, in effect, you're saying to her is
5 because there is a gap in what might be the
6 correct administrative procedure, we're going to
7 ignore that and pass the legislation anyway, and
8 I'm asking you if you think that that's good law
9 to be legislating into a condition where there
10 is -- where obviously the access is going to be
11 hard pressed as a result of your legislation.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I -
13 I don't agree with the premise, because I don't
14 think the access is going to be impaired at
15 all.
16 The legislation states that the
17 least expensive mode of transportation is to be
18 taken unless it's not medically appropriate or
19 whatever the exact words are, and I guess what
20 I'm trying to say is that we've passed legisla
21 tion oftentimes that is amended in the future
22 with additional ideas, and I just think this is
23 the start that we need in order to not only
9794
1 provide a less costly transportation system for
2 Medicaid recipients since we spend more in this
3 state than the next two states combined on
4 Medicaid, but also to assist those public
5 transportation entities that come to us year
6 after year for assistance because they're always
7 in the red. This would provide more revenues
8 for them as well.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Senator.
10 That is an answer that I can accept a lot better
11 than the answer you were giving before. I hope
12 you understand what my concern is and my concern
13 is the concern of access.
14 Now, it is -- you can say there's
15 a transportation system running near where the
16 individual might be going for treatment, but
17 let's say, as Senator Abate pointed out and
18 Senator Smith pointed out and others have
19 pointed out, that the buses may not come on
20 time. The buses may not come regularly. There
21 may be a problem with access for the disabled,
22 and these are ancillary problems that are built
23 into the system that may not actually be
9795
1 something that's recognized just on paper.
2 What I'm saying to you is that
3 members of the chamber are raising them as
4 issues and our response has got to be a fashion
5 of creating legislation such that it can
6 actually apply in a way that will be fair to
7 individuals, and what we're trying to alert you
8 to is that in New York City we have these
9 extraordinary problems that would be created by
10 this kind of an imposition.
11 I actually grew up on Long Island
12 and the transportation system in Long Island is
13 very sporadic and it would be a real incumbrance
14 and an added difficulty where that would be
15 alleviated by the ability to take a taxi or
16 something like that.
17 And so I'm just saying that it
18 may work out and it may be designated in such a
19 way in Syracuse, but this is a piece of
20 legislation that you're trying to pass
21 statewide.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson, is that in the form of a question or
9796
1 are you asking for a comment from Senator
2 DeFrancisco on that?
3 SENATOR PATERSON: It was just a
4 statement I guess the few of us that are here
5 might want to reflect on.
6 So I thank Senator DeFrancisco
7 for answering my questions and would advise the
8 president that Senator Gold just raised a moment
9 ago that we were desirous of a slow roll call on
10 this piece of legislation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
21 slow roll call request. Are there five Senators
22 in the chamber standing up? There are five,
23 Senator. I know Senator Onorato is having a
9797
1 hard time getting to his feet, but the Secretary
2 will call the roll slowly.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
4 (Negative indication.)
5 Senator Babbush.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Bruno.
8 (Affirmative indication.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Aye.
10 Senator Connor.
11 (Negative indication.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Nay.
13 Senator Cook.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator DeFrancisco.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo.
18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
23 SENATOR ESPADA: No.
9798
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
2 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber,
4 excused.
5 Senator Gold.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Gonzalez.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Goodman.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Hannon.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Hoblock.
14 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann.
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones.
22 SENATOR JONES: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
9799
1 SENATOR KRUGER: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
3 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Larkin.
7 (There was no audible response.)
8 Senator LaValle.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Leibell.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Leichter.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy.
15 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Marcellino.
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
23 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
9800
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Markowitz.
3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.
5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
7 SENATOR MENDEZ: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Montgomery.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Nanula.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Nozzolio.
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
16 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Oppenheimer.
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: No.
9801
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
2 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Saland.
6 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Sears.
10 SENATOR SEARS: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
16 SENATOR SMITH: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Senator Stachowski.
22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford.
9802
1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Trunzo.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Tully.
7 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Volker.
11 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will call the absentees.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Cook.
21 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
23 (There was no response.)
9803
1 Senator Gonzalez.
2 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Hannon.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Lack.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator LaValle.
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
12 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Montgomery.
15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
17 SENATOR NANULA: No.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Santiago.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Seward.
23 (There was no response.)
9804
1 Senator Spano.
2 SENATOR SPANO: No.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Trunzo.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Velella.
8 (There was no response.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Waldon.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
12 zigged when I should have zagged. My statement
13 should have been in the negative, not in the
14 affirmative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Waldon will be recorded in the negative.
17 Senator Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: No.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Gold will be recorded in the negative.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
23 the results.
9805
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 14.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 The Secretary will continue to
5 call the controversial calendar.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4509, an
8 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law,
9 in relation to eliminating limitations on
10 certain corporations.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Last section.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4513-A -
9806
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1306, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an
7 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation
8 to notification of patients.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay the bill
11 aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
13 bill aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958-A, an
16 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
17 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public
18 Service Commission.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay the bill
21 aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1312 -
9807
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
2 recognizes Senator Nozzolio.
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. Mr.
4 President, please return to Calendar Number
5 1306, Senator Maziarz' bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Ask the
7 Secretary to read the title to Calendar Number
8 1306.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1360, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an
11 act to amend the Public Health Law.
12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Maziarz, an explanation.
15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I thought you
16 were going to read the last section.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Maziarz, an explanation of Calendar Number 1306
19 has been asked for by a number of the members
20 from the Minority side.
21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr.
22 President.
23 This bill very simply provides
9808
1 for the confidentiality of a patient's records
2 when a physician's practice is closed or sold.
3 Currently, nothing in state law provides
4 standards for physicians as regards to patient
5 notification upon closing or selling their
6 practice.
7 This is a concern for people who
8 have sensitive information in their medical
9 records and would prefer that their records not
10 automatically go to another physician or
11 unbeknownst to them sit in a storage at an
12 unknown location or even worse yet, an example
13 that happened in my district -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
15 me, Senator Maziarz. It's very noisy in here.
16 A lot of conversations going on. Could we
17 please -- if you have to have a conversation,
18 can you take out of the chamber. There's a lot
19 of motion. Please -- members, please take their
20 seats, the staff, stay in their seats. We have
21 a lot of bills to pass in the next 36 hours.
22 Thank you for your indulgence,
23 Senator Maziarz.
9809
1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 My last point is that a patient's
4 records could, unbeknownst to them, be simply
5 thrown into the -- into the garbage.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the last section.
8 Senator Abate.
9 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would
10 Senator Maziarz yield to a question?
11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR ABATE: I have one
16 concern, and I'm not sure if it can be addressed
17 today, but I ask you as the sponsor to look at
18 this issue.
19 As you know, I represent a
20 district where many members of my district are
21 HIV-positive, and they have communicated to me
22 their concern around issues of confidentiality,
23 and whereas I understand the good intent of this
9810
1 bill, they're concerned that when someone -- a
2 practitioner sells or disposes of their
3 practice, the records are then forwarded to the
4 address, and -- or a phone call -- there's some
5 communication between the patient and the
6 practitioner that the practice is going to be
7 transferred, and there's a concern that there
8 would be an abridgment of confidentiality that
9 in a sense the material will fall in the wrong
10 hands, and I'm not sure how that gets
11 corrected. I'm waiting to see if there's any
12 suggestions how to correct that. Have you heard
13 that concern?
14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I have,
15 Senator, and -
16 SENATOR ABATE: What's your
17 reaction to it? Do you think this bill covers
18 their concerns?
19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Well, I
20 contacted both the Medical Society who supports
21 this bill and also several physicians within my
22 district and they indicated to me, because I had
23 that same concern, and I received a memorandum
9811
1 from the Gay Men's Health Crisis regarding that
2 particular issue, and what the physicians
3 indicated to me was that at -- right now when a
4 physician has to deal with the patient either by
5 sending them bills for services rendered or
6 sending them reports of testing information,
7 whatever, that generally a physician will ask -
8 it's part of the standard form when you go to
9 the physician -- where would you like mail sent,
10 either to your business, your home, to a post
11 office box, and that primarily what would happen
12 in this notification -- or in this instance, the
13 -- either the physician would send the
14 information based on the patient's indications
15 to him initially.
16 SENATOR ABATE: Would you -
17 would the Senator yield -- continue to yield?
18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator continues to yield.
21 SENATOR ABATE: Would you also
22 consider down the road -- I know that there's
23 another Senate Bill 15-B by Senator Farley which
9812
1 calls for the creation of a Health Care
2 Information Privacy Advisory Board. I'm hoping
3 that, if this board does become a reality, that
4 they would look at these confidentiality
5 concerns vis-a-vis this bill if it passes and
6 becomes law, because there may be some real
7 concerns. I do not have a solution how to
8 remedy it, but I would hope that if this does
9 pass, we take another fresh look at the -- at
10 the implementation, the execution of this
11 legislation and try to remedy some of these
12 issues.
13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I certainly
14 will do that, Senator.
15 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Solomon.
18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Would
19 Senator Maziarz yield, please?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Maziarz, do you yield to Senator Solomon?
22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I do, Mr.
23 President.
9813
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator,
4 reading your bill and correct me if I'm wrong,
5 it specifically says that the doctor notifies
6 the patient that he or she may request a copy of
7 their records and to do so, that patient must
8 request that in writing. What happens if that
9 patient's brother writes; it only goes to the
10 patient, I would assume?
11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: It only goes to
12 the patient.
13 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, in effect,
14 Senator, this bill is protecting the confiden
15 tiality of that patient. No one in that family
16 can get those records other than the patient
17 because it's a process where, (a) is you send a
18 letter to the patient John Doe, at his residence
19 saying, "Dear John Doe: I'm closing my
20 practice. If you want a copy of your medical
21 records, sign the enclosed letter and send it
22 back to me", so only John Doe, that patient, can
23 request a copy of those records and the only
9814
1 notice that goes to his house is a notice that
2 Dr. Smith, wherever he might be -- he may be a
3 podiatrist -- is closing his practice, correct?
4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That's correct,
5 Senator.
6 SENATOR SOLOMON: So the medical
7 records are secured only by the patient of the
8 doctor in writing. There must be a written
9 request to secure those records by that patient.
10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That's correct,
11 Senator.
12 SENATOR SOLOMON: So this
13 protects the patient. There is no one besides
14 that patient that can request those records.
15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
16 Senator.
17 SENATOR SOLOMON: All right,
18 Senator.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Solomon, are you -- Senator Solomon, are you
21 asking Senator Maziarz to continue to yield?
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Will
23 Senator Maziarz continue to yield?
9815
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Will you
2 continue to yield, Senator Maziarz?
3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator continues to yield.
7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, in
8 effect -- the patient then in effect literally
9 controls the disbursement of those records and
10 they can refuse to have those records sent by
11 just not forwarding the response.
12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That is
13 correct, Senator.
14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay.
15 Thank you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect 120 days after it shall
20 have become a law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9816
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 The Secretary will read Calendar
5 Number 1310.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958-A, an
8 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
9 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public
10 Service Commission.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Skelos, an explanation by the substitute
14 Minority Leader, Senator Stachowski, has been
15 asked for on Calendar Number 1310.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: This legislation
17 would remove the Public Service Commission
18 mandate for a complete management audit on
19 certain phone companies every five years and
20 replace it with the concept of only as needed.
21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If the
22 Senator would yield for a question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9817
1 Stachowski is asking Senator Skelos to yield.
2 Do you yield? The Senator yields.
3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, the
4 only concern is -- and you can probably take
5 care of this. Is there any -- is there -- by
6 making this periodical rather than yearly, is
7 there still all the safeguards dealing with
8 those phone companies by the consumers?
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, there is.
10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1312, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5045, an
23 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
9818
1 relation to authorizing a residential parking
2 system.
3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Goodman, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR GOODMAN: Before this
7 bill is taken up, with the consent of the -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is on the floor, Senator Goodman, right now. An
10 explanation of the bill has been asked for.
11 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is
14 Senator Velella in the chamber? Can we lay this
15 bill aside, Senator Skelos?
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay this bill
17 aside temporarily and please recognize Senator
18 Goodman.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay this
20 bill aside temporarily.
21 Senator Goodman.
22 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
9819
1 Mr. President, for the record,
2 had I been in the chamber on June 13th, I would
3 have voted in the affirmative on Calendar Number
4 1187, Senate Bill Number 5173-A, and the same
5 applies to a bill today, Calendar Number 1299,
6 Print Number 3520, in the affirmative.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 record will reflect, Senator Goodman, that had
10 you been in the chamber earlier this week on
11 Tuesday, June 13th, that you would have voted in
12 the affirmative on Calendar Number 1187-A.
13 Without objection, and hearing no objection, you
14 will be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar
15 Number 1299 -- excuse me, Senator Goodman. That
16 was a slow roll call, but the record will
17 reflect that, had you been in the chamber, you
18 would have voted in the affirmative on Calendar
19 Number 1299.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 again, I would urge the members as their bills
23 come up, if they could please be in the chambers
9820
1 to debate the bill, if they're prepared to
2 debate the bill or at least lay it aside if they
3 need a little extra time to prepare debate for
4 the bill, but we -- we've asked the Minority to
5 be cooperative with us and they certainly are
6 going to give us their best effort to do so, so
7 we can move expeditiously today as we try to
8 close session by tomorrow, June 15th, so please
9 watch the calendar. If you see that one of your
10 bills are coming up, if you want to explain it,
11 please be in the chambers. If you want to
12 debate it, please be in the chambers.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
17 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room
18 332 of the Capitol. The Senate will stand at
19 ease pending receipt of the Rules report, then I
20 believe the Minority has asked for a conference
21 on a bill. So we'll break for about -- we're
22 not going to recess. We're going to stand at
23 ease until 1:30, and we'll have the Rules
9821
1 Committee meeting right now.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
3 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
4 Committee -- immediate meeting of the Rules
5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
6 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee
7 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
8 There will be a Minority Conference immediately
9 following that. The Senate will stand at
10 ease -
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
12 could you recognize Senator Wright, please?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
14 recognizes Senator Wright.
15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 There will be an immediate
18 meeting of the Senate Task Force on Defense
19 Spending in Room 123.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Also be
21 an immediate meeting of the Senate Task Force on
22 the Defense Industry in Room 123. The Senate
23 will stand at ease until 1:30 sharp.
9822
1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
2 ease from 12:59 p.m. until 2:05 p.m.)
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Before we have a
7 -- reports of standing committee from the Rules
8 Committee, I would like to ask the members on
9 both sides of the aisle, if they could start
10 coming back into the -- into the chambers.
11 We're going to start off with a reading of the
12 new Rules Committee report and then we are going
13 to have a vote on Senator Levy's bill which -
14 Calendar Number 728 and the Minority has
15 informed me that there will most likely be a
16 slow roll call on that, so if we could get all
17 the members in the chamber at this time.
18 Mr. President, would you please
19 call up Senator Levy's bill, Calendar Number
20 728, for the purpose of Senator Leichter voting.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
23 728.
9823
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973-C, an act
3 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
4 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by
5 persons under the age of 21.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This
9 act shall take effect on the first day of
10 November.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Please recognize
15 Senator Leichter.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Leichter, how do you vote?
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative.
21 The roll call is withdrawn. The bill is laid
22 aside.
23 The Chair recognizes Senator
9824
1 Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 if we could return to reports of standing
4 committees, I believe there's a report of the
5 Rules Committee, and I ask that it be read at
6 this time.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
8 a report of the Rules Committee at the desk.
9 We'll return to the reports of standing
10 committees, and I'll ask the Secretary to read
11 the Rules report.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
14 following bills:
15 Senate Print 1059, by Senator
16 Waldon, an act authorizing the city of New York
17 to reconvey its interest in certain real
18 property acquired by in rem tax foreclosure in
19 the borough of Queens;
20 2458-A, by Senator Skelos, an act
21 to amend the Family Court Act, in relation to
22 orders of protection;
23 2949-A, by Senator Dollinger, an
9825
1 act validating the conversion of Roselawn Refuse
2 and Garbage District;
3 3006-A, by Senator Libous, an act
4 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
5 to the presence of counsel;
6 3236, by Senator LaValle, an act
7 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
8 to forfeiture of benefits;
9 3493-A, by Senator Hoblock, an
10 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to
11 the Deputy Commander of the New York Army
12 National Guard;
13 3631-A, by Senator Stafford,
14 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly
15 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 2, 10, 11
16 and 16 of Article VII of the Constitution;
17 3839-A, by Senator Sears, an act
18 to amend the General Business Law, in relation
19 to false price comparisons;
20 3905-A, by Senator Rath, an act
21 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act
22 and Chapter 402 of the Laws of 1994;
23 4253, by Senator Tully, an act to
9826
1 amend the Public Health Law and the Education
2 Law, in relation to professional misconduct;
3 4329-A, by Senator Maziarz, an
4 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
5 disqualification of life insurance
6 beneficiaries;
7 4529-A, by Senator Tully, an act
8 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
9 relation to the harvest and shipment of
10 shellfish;
11 4799, by Senator Volker, an act
12 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to including
13 certain obscenity crimes in the definition of
14 criminal act;
15 4815, by Senator Johnson, an act
16 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to the
17 definition of small groups;
18 4918, by Senator Jones, an act to
19 reclassify Dorothy L. Barnatones as a Tier I
20 member of the New York State and Local Employees
21 Retirement System;
22 4924, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
23 authorizing the county of Monroe to participate
9827
1 in a cooperative corporation;
2 4932-A, by Senator Farley, an act
3 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to the
4 restoration and display of New York State's
5 military battle flags;
6 5001, by Senator Connor, an act
7 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
8 interest in certain real property;
9 5012, by Senator Nanula, an act
10 to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation to
11 the private sale of bonds;
12 5085, by Senator Kuhl, an act in
13 relation to authorizing the village of Penn Yan,
14 Yates County to issue serial bonds;
15 5094, by Senator Maltese,
16 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly
17 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 5, 6 and 8
18 of Article II of the Constitution;
19 5292, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
20 amend the Limited Liability Company Law and the
21 Partnership Law, in relation to certain
22 professional services;
23 5301, by Senator Maltese, an act
9828
1 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
2 withholding of exculpatory evidence;
3 5302, by Senator Maltese, an act
4 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
5 to jury consideration;
6 5326, by Senator Levy, an act to
7 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
8 to authorizing the Department of Motor Vehicles
9 to sell to the highest bidder motor vehicle
10 title information;
11 5329, by Senator Leibell, an act
12 to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in
13 relation to the state's involvement in the
14 National Affordable Housing Act;
15 5333, by the Committee on Rules,
16 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
17 extending the effectiveness of provisions
18 authorizing the county of Rensselaer to impose
19 an additional one percent of sales and
20 compensating use tax;
21 5343, by Senator Marchi, an act
22 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to
23 pilotage fees;
9829
1 5348, by Senator DiCarlo, an act
2 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in
3 relation to the enforcement of certain kosher
4 food laws;
5 5357, by Senator Johnson, an act
6 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
7 relation to the definition of facility;
8 5377, by Senator Maltese, an act
9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
10 to the powers of the United States Park Police;
11 5379, by Senator Holland, an act
12 to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to
13 the pass through of federal cost of living
14 adjustments;
15 5371, by Senator Goodman, an act
16 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
17 to the determination of adjusted based
18 proportions; and
19 5321, by Senator Maziarz, an act
20 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
21 to period of limitation.
22 All bills ordered directly for
23 third reading.
9830
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. I move we
4 accept the report of the Rules Committee, and I
5 believe they're all being reported to third
6 reading.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 motion is to accept the report of the Rules
9 Committee. All those in favor signify by saying
10 aye.
11 (Response of "Aye".)
12 Opposed, nay.
13 (There was no response.)
14 The Rules report is adopted. All
15 bills are directed directly to third reading.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
17 at this time if we could take up Senator Levy's
18 bill, Calendar Number 728. As I mentioned, I
19 believe that this bill has been debated and
20 there will now be a roll call on the bill.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the title to Calendar
23 Number -
9831
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll
2 call, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Skelos, can we -- before we take up this bill,
5 we've got a couple of housekeeping -- we're
6 looking at a couple of rush prints. Can we do
7 that quickly? Okay.
8 The Chair recognizes Senator
9 Farley.
10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 On behalf of Senator Velella, on
13 page 36, I offer the following amendments to
14 Calendar Number 1312, Senate Print 5045, and I
15 ask that that bill retain its place on the Third
16 Reading Calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 amendments are received and adopted. The bill
19 will retain its place on the Third Reading
20 Calendar.
21 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
22 Senator Levy, on page 21, I offer the following
23 amendments to Calendar 876, Senate Print 4986-B,
9832
1 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the
2 Third Reading Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 amendments to Calendar Number 876 are received
5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
6 the Third Reading Calendar.
7 Senator Farley.
8 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
9 Senator Spano, on page 21, I offer the following
10 amendments to Calendar 861, Senate Print 3975-C,
11 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the
12 Third Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 amendments to Calendar Number 861 are received
15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
16 the Third Reading Calendar.
17 Senator Farley.
18 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
19 Senator Levy, please remove the sponsor's star
20 from Calendar Number 841.
21 Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The star
23 will be removed on Calendar Number 841 at the
9833
1 request of the sponsor.
2 The Secretary will read the
3 title.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973-C, an act
6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
7 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by
8 persons under the age of 21.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
10 last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 14.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll
13 call.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This
17 act shall take effect on the first day of
18 November.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: A slow
9834
1 roll has been requested. Are there five
2 Senators standing? There are five Senators
3 standing requesting a slow roll call. The
4 Secretary will read the roll call slowly.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Bruno.
10 (Affirmative indication.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Aye.
12 Senator Connor.
13 (Negative indication.)
14 THE SECRETARY: No.
15 Senator Cook.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Senator DeFrancisco.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: No.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Dollinger.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
9835
1 President.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
3 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber,
7 excused.
8 Senator Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Goodman.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Hannon.
15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Hoffmann.
19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Johnson.
23 (There was no response.)
9836
1 Senator Jones.
2 SENATOR JONES: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
4 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
6 SENATOR KUHL: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
8 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
10 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell.
14 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter
16 voting in the affirmative earlier today.
17 Senator Levy.
18 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9837
1 Marcellino.
2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Markowitz.
6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.
8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Montgomery.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator Nozzolio.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Onorato.
19 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator
21 Oppenheimer.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
9838
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
5 SENATOR PRESENT: No.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
7 SENATOR RATH: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Santiago.
11 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears.
13 SENATOR SEARS: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
19 SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon.
21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
23 SENATOR SPANO: Aye.
9839
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Stachowski.
3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Trunzo voting in the
9 affirmative earlier today.
10 Senator Tully.
11 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
13 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
15 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Wright.
19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will call the absentees.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush.
23 (There was no response.)
9840
1 Senator Cook.
2 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Goodman.
6 SENATOR GOODMAN: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Holland.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Johnson.
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: No.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
14 SENATOR MARCHI: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
16 SENATOR NANULA: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
20 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
22 (There was no response.)
23 Senator Waldon.
9841
1 (Negative indication.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Holland, how do you vote?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: No.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays 12.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is passed.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 Senator Lack, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 I was unavoidably out of the
15 chamber at a meeting at the Rockefeller
16 Institute when a vote was taken on Calendar
17 1299. Could the record reflect that if I had
18 been present, I would have voted yes on Calendar
19 1299, S.3520?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 calendar will reflect, Senator Lack, that had
22 you been in the chamber when the vote was taken
23 on Calendar 1299 that you would have voted in
9842
1 the affirmative.
2 Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
4 housekeeping at this time? Could we call up
5 Calendar Number 1272, by Senator DiCarlo.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
8 1272.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1272, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 3486-A,
11 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
12 relation to the powers of the Dormitory
13 Authority.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
9843
1 Senator Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
6 call up Senator Padavan's bill, Calendar Number
7 12... 1292.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
10 1292.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an
13 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
14 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully
15 admitted aliens.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 if we could go a little out of order and the
20 Minority has requested if we could take up
21 Calendar Number 1296 at this time.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
23 right. 1292 will be laid aside temporarily.
9844
1 I'll ask the Secretary to read
2 the title to Calendar Number 1296, by Senator
3 Padavan.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an
6 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
7 relation to the exclusion of illegal aliens from
8 receiving publicly-funded health care.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
10 recognizes Senator Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 would you please recognize Senator Espada who
13 would request an explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Espada.
16 SENATOR ESPADA: Explanation, Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Padavan -- Senator Padavan, an explanation of
20 Calendar Number 1296 has been asked for by
21 Senator Espada.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
9845
1 I'm taking it out of order,
2 Senator, but I'll certainly try to accommodate
3 you. What this bill will do is strengthen the
4 current prohibitions we have against illegal
5 aliens receiving public health care benefits
6 other than those mandated by the federal
7 government, particularly in the category
8 relating to emergency medical care.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Espada.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: If I might, Mr.
12 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple of
13 questions, please?
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, certainly.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Padavan yields.
17 SENATOR ESPADA: We thank Senator
18 Padavan for yielding.
19 The first question, Senator
20 Padavan, has to do with the reasonably -- the
21 reasonable suspicion that -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Espada, excuse me for the interruption. It's
9846
1 just a little noisy in here. We'll wait until
2 everybody has decided they want to stop talking
3 to listen to you until we continue.
4 Senator Espada, I think we're
5 ready to continue now. Thank you for the
6 interruption.
7 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you.
8 The determination of a
9 consideration that has to be made rests on a
10 judgment of -- and it reads on line 15, Section
11 2 -- it starts on 14 that if any publicly-funded
12 health care facility in this state from whom a
13 person seeks health care services other than
14 emergency medical care as required by federal
15 law, et cetera, determines or reasonably
16 suspects based upon the information provided, et
17 cetera, that the person is then worthy of some
18 kind of administrative evaluation as to their
19 legal status.
20 So my question is since it lacks
21 specificity in law -- in your bill, whether you
22 can provide some more specificity as to what
23 determinations or what criteria one would weigh
9847
1 with respect to making that determination of
2 what is reasonable suspicion under your bill.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, you
4 read ahead to the middle of the first page, but
5 you skipped over the top of the first page, and
6 I think in that portion of the bill your answer
7 lies.
8 It indicates that legal status is
9 verified in a number of specific ways, and it
10 lists them. Citizen, obviously, an alien
11 lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an
12 alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period
13 of time or a person who's otherwise authorized
14 under federal law to be present in the United
15 States.
16 Now, such persons, obviously, can
17 verify that without any difficulty. If that -
18 such requirements are not met, then obviously we
19 may have a problem and further verification may
20 be necessary.
21 I might add in answering your
22 question even more fully, the Congressional
23 Commission on Immigration Reform which has been
9848
1 getting a lot of attention lately in the media,
2 in their report to Congress in the fall -- and
3 I'm going to read the sentence to you -- "the
4 commission recommends that illegal aliens should
5 not be eligible for any publicly-funded services
6 or assistance except those made available on an
7 emergency basis." It goes on to further amplify
8 that statement.
9 So what our bill is doing here is
10 simply -- perhaps not so simply, but certainly
11 directly responding to this commission's
12 recommendation.
13 I might also add, and I think I
14 brought this up the other day, the President's
15 May 6th address to the nation on immigration
16 stated very directly that aliens -- "Illegal
17 aliens should not be receiving benefits for
18 public services or welfare." Again, that's a
19 direct quote from the speech.
20 So what we have before us is a
21 bill that seeks to accomplish those two goals as
22 stated by Barbara Jordan in her commission and
23 by the President of the United States and
9849
1 certainly I think is consistent with what the
2 people believe is fair and equitable. We must
3 provide emergency services for any person in
4 this country, legal or illegal, but there are
5 many other services that are currently being
6 provided, if you accept the inputs from the
7 state Welfare Inspector General, Mr. Elmer Toro
8 and other credible sources, including the state
9 Department of Social Services gave us specific
10 information relevant to this issue, and if you
11 have had an opportunity to read our two reports,
12 we provide chapter and verse what the various
13 state and city agencies have advised us is the
14 case relevant to this issue and other related
15 issues.
16 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President,
17 if I may follow up.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Padavan, do you continue to yield? The Senator
20 continues to yield.
21 SENATOR ESPADA: We're -- my
22 question, Senator Paterson, and I -- Padavan,
23 and I wanted to have you edify this because the
9850
1 question still remains unanswered. I am not
2 talking about the criteria that -- that -- and
3 the classes of -- that an immigrant or permanent
4 resident is or is not. I'm talking about when
5 you, myself, any member of our families would go
6 into an emergency room of a public clinic and
7 that person there, be they a doctor, be they a
8 social worker has to pull the trigger, as it
9 were, to see whether or not I am entitled to
10 this service post-adoption of your -- of your
11 bill. How do they -- these people that have
12 been trained as social workers, physicians, mid
13 level management or what have you, how would
14 they implement this exclusion on the basis of my
15 presenting myself for assistance at their desk,
16 at their door?
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm
18 sure you've had a driver's license and when you
19 applied for it, you had to demonstrate who you
20 were, what you were, birth certificate, all
21 kinds of things. There are a variety of ways a
22 person can demonstrate that they are a legal
23 resident of this country and have to in so many
9851
1 other areas.
2 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President,
3 if I may just -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Padavan, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Senator continues to yield.
9 SENATOR ESPADA: Wouldn't this
10 require, Senator Padavan, though, a universal
11 screening because anything short of that would
12 get into the area of being very selective and
13 maybe discriminatory and I know you don't want
14 to enter into the latter, so given the fact that
15 we must be -- it must be an open-ended,
16 universal system of screening, you or me or
17 anybody that presents themselves because we
18 don't carry distinguishing features that say I'm
19 illegal or you're illegal, then I would have to
20 -- upon applying for a license, yes, you're
21 right, we do all of those things. Certainly
22 that screening would then apply and whatever
23 rules, whatever checks they want to implement
9852
1 would be provided for everyone that presents
2 themselves for care at these publicly-funded
3 institutions.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Any person
5 going to a hospital has to provide under any
6 circumstance certain information, Social
7 Security number, identification. You know, this
8 is true for everyone.
9 What we're saying here is that
10 while emergency services are mandated, other
11 optional and non-emergency services are not for
12 illegal immigrants, and we are requiring
13 verification.
14 The city of New York alone and
15 the Health and Hospitals Corporation has $63
16 million in non-reimbursable costs associated
17 with this population, meaning they did not
18 qualify because they're not legal residents for
19 Medicaid or any other category.
20 I don't believe it's unreasonable
21 for us to seek this process mandate. It's not
22 already being done, and in parts of the state it
23 is being done. There is no uniformity, however,
9853
1 and to reflect, it's very sound recommendations
2 that are coming from credible entities such as
3 the ones I mentioned.
4 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator Padavan,
5 through you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Padavan, do you continue to yield?
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator continues to yield.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: I would take the
12 liberty and let it act as a preface to the next
13 question, that this would create an awesome
14 bureaucratic immigration status determination
15 system, and coming from the not-for-profit
16 sector and the human service delivery sector, we
17 can predict that we're going to have this
18 incredible system where people that are not
19 trained will have a new job description or, for
20 that matter, that new people, new employees
21 would carry this kind of job title. Somewhere
22 in the management scheme of things, someone is
23 going to have to do this job.
9854
1 My contention may be that that
2 person is not even there now so new costs will
3 be added, but there's no question around the
4 issue of costs in this thing. Where are we
5 going to get the money? I know from hearing
6 past debates that you do not believe in unfunded
7 mandates, so where are we going to get the
8 money?
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: I have stated
10 to you on this issue and I urge you, whether you
11 agree with the direction we're in or not, read
12 the two studies that we generated which are 99
13 percent information provided by New York State
14 Department of Social Services, New York City
15 Department of Social Services, Health and
16 Hospitals Corporation, every city and state
17 agency that has any relevance. Read the
18 information they provide.
19 Now, as far as costs, simply by
20 weeding out illegal immigrants from hospital
21 services to which they are not entitled, we will
22 be saving conservatively -- and this is DSS
23 numbers provided to us for the calendar year
9855
1 1992 -- between 20- and $30 million. That's
2 their number. I didn't make it up. I'll give
3 you the report. You can read it for yourself.
4 Now, for us to save that kind of
5 money, I don't know what you're talking about
6 when you say unfunded mandate. Have you -- I'm
7 sure you have, because I have -- been in one of
8 the Health and Hospitals Corporation facilities
9 at the intake area where a person comes into the
10 emergency room and then is processed for
11 admission. If you have, and you're nodding yes,
12 you know they seek documentation from you
13 today. They don't just let you in the door and
14 give all your -- there is someone there today
15 looking for a Medicaid card, if that's
16 appropriate or any other documentation, if
17 that's appropriate.
18 So there is no cost associated
19 with this. What there is, is millions and
20 millions of dollars of potential savings, and
21 the federal government, the President and many,
22 many people are saying, including the state
23 Department of Social Services, that we do this
9856
1 sort of thing.
2 SENATOR ESPADA: If I may, Mr.
3 President.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: The only
5 alternative, if I may add one sentence, is to do
6 nothing and, if that's what you're suggesting,
7 then I have no way to answer your question.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: My question was
9 with respect to costs, and you got caught up in
10 a couple other things, but I want to go back to
11 some cost issues.
12 These agencies that are going to
13 implement these exclusions have probably in
14 total lost at least $1 billion in various
15 cutbacks. That same Health and Hospitals
16 Corporation that you note admonished us that if
17 we passed the cost containment and Medicaid cuts
18 that we did, that they would lose millions and
19 millions -- $750 million was a conservative
20 estimate. It had nothing to do with illegal
21 aliens or anything of the type, so they already
22 have a major problem that we contributed to, but
23 beyond that, I asked you a question about costs
9857
1 and you give me the lectures about what I should
2 read.
3 I'm reading your bill, and I'm
4 asking questions only about your bill, and it
5 says that if I work in one of these places and
6 someone presents themselves, then I have to ask
7 any number of questions that would lead me to
8 ascertain and determine whether or not they are
9 a citizen of the United States, an alien
10 lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an
11 alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period
12 of time or a person who is otherwise authorized
13 under the federal law to be present in the
14 United States.
15 No one right now is in a position
16 to ask those questions and make those
17 determinations. Therefore, somebody's going to
18 have to do that. It doesn't sound like a simple
19 task. When I get through doing that, then I
20 have to go to INS and I have to go to the
21 Attorney General. It sounds like a heck of a
22 job.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: If I may
9858
1 respond to Senator Espada.
2 First, I disagree with your
3 contention that there is no one there to do it
4 now. An intake person at any hospital already
5 requires that individuals provide certain
6 documentation. I might also add that seeking
7 employment, if you are not a citizen, you must
8 provide documentation. You know that's a
9 federal law with some very serious penalties on
10 employers who violate it. So this is not a new
11 concept.
12 I take issue with your comment
13 that you should not read the supporting
14 documentation, because the information -- if I
15 may -- the information -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Espada, you asked Senator Padavan a question.
18 He should be allowed to answer it.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: The information
20 that we have obtained over the course of two
21 years seeking input from every credible source
22 is the basis by which we move in the direction
23 we're moving.
9859
1 When I tell you that the state
2 Department of Social Services provided
3 information for us for the calendar year 1992 in
4 terms of illegal aliens and the figure that they
5 estimate in terms of the costs for this
6 particular issue is between 20- and 30 million,
7 that's verifiable information that you can check
8 if you wish. It's not in the bill, but it's a
9 fact, and there is a great deal more.
10 So I point these things out to
11 you simply to justify the initiative we are
12 undertaking here on this bill and other bills
13 and, as I said before, if we do not do things of
14 this sort, then the only option for us to do is
15 nothing, not to be concerned at all about
16 persons going into our hospitals, both public
17 and private, taking advantage of medical
18 services that are not in the emergency category
19 and falling into the bad debt and charity pool,
20 because that's where they fall, because they're
21 not covered by insurance. They're not covered
22 by Medicaid, and I assume you're familiar with
23 the costs to the state in the bad debt and
9860
1 charity pool. That's part of this cost, a large
2 part of it, and the Health and Hospitals
3 Corporation is suffering. We know that.
4 I have two hospitals in Queens
5 that I'm intimately familiar with, Queens
6 Hospital Center and Elmhurst. I know the
7 problems they're suffering, but I have also been
8 in their emergency wards, in the clinics, and if
9 you were there with me, many of your questions
10 would be answered.
11 So what I'm saying to you here -
12 and by the way, I have also talked to social
13 workers who say, you know, we know this person
14 is an undocumented alien, but current policy
15 here in the city of New York is such that we
16 can't do anything about it, so we have to
17 provide the full range of services because they
18 claim to be whatever.
19 This is going on -- this is in
20 the real world, not just in New York State and
21 New York City, by the way, it's in Los Angeles.
22 It's in eastern Texas, it's in Miami, and that's
23 why those governors have gone into the federal
9861
1 courts seeking remuneration from the federal
2 government, and so have we. It's not unique to
3 New York City and New York State, but we're part
4 of six regions and we're being directed. We're
5 being encouraged by the President, by the
6 commissioner and many others to do whatever we
7 can to help ourselves.
8 If you have problems with that, I
9 can't help you, but nevertheless, when you say
10 you have trouble understanding that we want a
11 hospital to verify whether that person is an
12 illegal or legal immigrant when they seek
13 non-emergency services, well, then we part
14 company, because I don't know how to answer you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Espada.
17 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President,
18 if I may. Before we part company, if we can
19 just continue, because in answering my question,
20 you raised some new and related issues.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Padavan, do you yield to Senator Espada?
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
9862
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR ESPADA: If you and I
4 were to take a walk through your emergency rooms
5 or mine, through the subway stations or the
6 restaurants in your district or mine, I do not
7 think that we would have the requisite skills
8 and orientation to go out there and detect
9 illegal aliens and, you know, identify them.
10 Was that where you were drawing me to, that upon
11 a glance, upon entering an emergency room of a
12 hospital that it would be that crystal clear
13 that it was inhabited by illegal aliens?
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, either
15 I'm being inartful in responding to you or
16 somehow the acoustics are not good here, but
17 what I said several times, at least three times,
18 that when you enter a hospital, public or
19 private, if you are a Medicaid person, you must
20 show your Medicaid card. If you're covered by a
21 private third-party insurer, you must indicate
22 who that is. If you are a citizen, you provide
23 your Social Security number or other relevant
9863
1 information. That is normal procedure now. The
2 person at the counter hands you a clipboard or
3 form and says, "Fill this out. Fill it out."
4 That's what's going on today.
5 Now, we're saying in this bill
6 that if that person doesn't provide any of the
7 information that's currently required, then -
8 and they cannot verify that they're there in
9 this country as -- legally and they're not there
10 for emergency services, then this kicks in.
11 That's what I said to you. I didn't say
12 anything about walking through the subway or any
13 other place.
14 SENATOR ESPADA: I thought I
15 heard you say that, if we walked into the
16 emergency room, that the problems would be
17 abundantly clear. Let's leave that to the side.
18 I think we could probably make more ground
19 dispelling some of the other myths that you laid
20 out, though.
21 Bad debt and charity pool of New
22 York State, respective reimbursement system, I
23 am very familiar with that. You know in your
9864
1 district -- probably more in yours because it's
2 more middle income than mine -- there are lots
3 of working class people, American citizens that
4 they are, who have no insurance who go to the
5 emergency room, the OBG clinics, have babies,
6 get treated for all kinds of maladies that make
7 up the reimbursement that's in that pool.
8 That's where that money goes.
9 How can you possibly say that
10 that money is supporting provision of care to
11 illegal aliens when, in fact, it is providing
12 care to working class people who are medically
13 indigent and have no insurance? A major problem
14 in this state and this country. That's what
15 that pool is there for, not to subsidize
16 provision of care to illegal immigrants.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
18 if I may respond. What I said to you, Senator,
19 was that this cost of providing non-emergency
20 and emergency, by the way, health care to
21 illegal immigrants becomes part of a hospital's
22 non-reimbursement income, either Medicaid or
23 third party or any other. I said it becomes
9865
1 part of that significant sum of money that is a
2 factor in the difficulties that our hospital
3 system in the city of New York is currently
4 experiencing. I did not say it was the entire
5 bad debt and charity pool. I said it was a
6 contributing component.
7 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator
8 Padavan,.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Espada.
11 SENATOR ESPADA: Just on these
12 issues of public health and safety which I know
13 is of concern to you, the -- but before we go
14 there, I just wanted to clarify one point. Is
15 there any social work organization, educational
16 association, physician or public health
17 association that supports your measure?
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I have
19 not received any memos in opposition from any
20 such organizations -
21 SENATOR ESPADA: I'm saying in
22 favor of.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- one way or
9866
1 the other, and I would assume that if they were
2 troubled by this, they would have communicated
3 that, the specific organizations that you're
4 talking about.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Espada.
7 SENATOR ESPADA: The public
8 health and safety concerns -- Mr. President,
9 through you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Padavan, do you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Senator continues to yield.
15 SENATOR ESPADA: -- will this
16 legislation -- and it's A-B, so if I can just
17 get out the A and B -- will this legislation
18 deny access to children for purposes of
19 immunizations, vaccines and will it also deny
20 women of prenatal care? In addition to that,
21 are you at all concerned that dangerous and
22 contagious disease entities will go undiagnosed
23 and untreated and then, in fact, affect us all,
9867
1 citizens and immigrants alike?
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: There were a
3 number of questions there. Let's see if I can
4 respond. Someone who arrives at a clinic and
5 has a communicable disease, that's an emergency
6 situation and under the federal mandate would
7 have to be treated. If an undocumented -- if an
8 illegal alien is identified at a clinic or at a
9 hospital seeking prenatal care, that is not an
10 emergency situation. If a child is born here
11 even of illegal aliens, that child is a citizen
12 and would receive and be entitled to all of the
13 care, including inoculations.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Espada.
16 SENATOR ESPADA: Just to press on
17 the issue, though, of -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Padavan, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Senator continues to yield.
23 SENATOR ESPADA: -- if I'm
9868
1 already here, you don't know my status, then you
2 find out my status and I'm a young child that
3 was not born here, will I be denied
4 immunizations at these publicly-funded clinics?
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: I didn't hear
6 the first part. Did you say I don't know my
7 status?
8 SENATOR ESPADA: Yeah. I have
9 not revealed my status. My status is not at
10 issue to me. I'm just a baby who, guardian or
11 somebody is bringing me into the public health
12 delivery system and that person cannot prove
13 that -- my status, will I be denied
14 immunizations and vaccines?
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: When you use
16 the word "prove", Senator, we've gone over that
17 for a good half hour. If there's no
18 verification in any one of the broad categories,
19 the specific categories we've talked about and
20 that person is identified thereby as an illegal
21 alien, if it is a non-emergency service, then
22 they're not entitled to health care today by
23 law, by federal law. We have been violating it.
9869
1 SENATOR ESPADA: So we will in
2 some fashion -- clearly in this fashion, we will
3 be denying that access? I hear you loud and
4 clear. You think that that service should be
5 denied. All I'm saying is as a result of that,
6 we will, in fact, be denying children
7 immunizations.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Which children
9 are you -- will the Senator yield?
10 SENATOR ESPADA: Of course.
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm
12 going to ask you two questions: Number one, do
13 you believe that illegal aliens should receive a
14 full gamut, a full range of health care services
15 in New York State, in New York City? That's
16 question one.
17 Question two, do you
18 differentiate between various age groups in that
19 category?
20 SENATOR ESPADA: I would uphold
21 whatever the federal statutes and whatever the
22 state statutes are with respect to that -- those
23 exclusions.
9870
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will the
2 Senator yield again?
3 SENATOR ESPADA: Yep.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: The federal
7 statute says that the only required health care
8 is for emergency situation service and, again, I
9 repeat, the President is saying you've got to do
10 that. The commissioner is saying you've got to
11 do that, Congress and U.S. Senators, and so on,
12 and so forth. Do you agree with that?
13 SENATOR ESPADA: I not only
14 understand and agree with it, my problem is not
15 with those statutes and my understanding of
16 those statutes. My problem is when you try to
17 make doctors and teachers, social workers, INS
18 agents and when you go about that in this
19 fashion which can -- is fraught with potential
20 -- in terms of discrimination with vigilante
21 self-enforcement and all of those judgments that
22 have to be made about the people that we're
23 talking about and then coupled with the public
9871
1 health and safety dangers that will be a direct
2 result of having contagions out there untreated,
3 TB, sexually-transmitted diseases, the HIV
4 virus, you name it and you think what we don't
5 even know about right now which your report
6 speaks to, okay, then we can turn our back on
7 that and cite federal statute and state statute,
8 but that's not the issue in this bill. The
9 issue in this bill is that we're creating new
10 INS personnel at the state's expense and at
11 local expense as well.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
13 I'm responding.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Padavan to respond.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: We're not
17 providing new INS personnel at our health
18 facilities. We're utilizing the current
19 system. Let me read something to you, Senator,
20 since we're entering this dialogue. This is
21 again from the report, U.S. Commission on
22 Immigration Reform, by the way, appointed by the
23 prior Congress, been in effect for a couple of
9872
1 years, going all over the country.
2 "The Commission firmly believes
3 that benefit policies should continue to send
4 this message, if aliens enter the U.S.
5 unlawfully, they will not receive aid except in
6 limited instances. Federal legislation should
7 permit states and localities to limit
8 eligibility of illegal aliens on this same
9 basis."
10 Senator, either you accept that
11 or you don't. I don't think we have any choice
12 but to accept it. We cannot be the health care
13 provider for the entire world. We cannot be the
14 place where people come from every conceivable
15 part of this globe seeking health care,
16 particularly during this point in time. Now,
17 either we draw a line somewhere following the
18 federal mandates or we do not.
19 The current intake process is
20 adequate today to apply this proposed
21 legislation. They are there doing the intake
22 evaluation today, and I would say to you, talk
23 to any person in that category, you will find
9873
1 that this is no problem. I have, but today by
2 virtue of Executive Order 124 in the city of New
3 York, they're precluded from doing anything
4 about it.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Espada, you have the floor.
7 Senator Espada.
8 SENATOR ESPADA: I would like to
9 go on the bill, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Espada on the bill.
12 SENATOR ESPADA: These exclusions
13 under the Padavan bill right before this house
14 now and the set of bills that he has proposed
15 seek to mirror, by his own words, Proposition
16 187 that passed in California, and these efforts
17 in California -- the efforts to implement the
18 California Proposition 187 have been blocked by
19 the courts by a -- multiple court injunctions.
20 There's litigation clogging up the court system
21 there as a result of this because many of these
22 provisions are considered unconstitutional,
23 unconstitutional there, and probably -- and most
9874
1 likely very, very unconstitutional here given
2 our provisions to provide for the needy
3 irrespective of residency -- I mean, rather,
4 citizenship.
5 Now, yesterday we had a proposal
6 for a rules change. We sought to have a debate
7 on a ban on assault weapons, and while I don't
8 want to reopen that, there was some comments
9 made about political grandstanding and what have
10 you. I do not believe that Senator Padavan is
11 involved in political grandstanding.
12 However, his bill does do this:
13 It creates costly unfunded mandates. It creates
14 tremendous administrative burdens for agencies
15 that by virtue of budget actions, whether you
16 come on the side that they were absolutely
17 required, they were cost containment measures or
18 what have you, they result in less money for the
19 Health and Hospitals Corporation, their
20 emergency room clinics and for those involved in
21 human service delivery in the area of pediatric
22 care and other stations where people in need go
23 for care.
9875
1 There was just no question about
2 that, that it would jeopardize the health and
3 safety of New Yorkers right now. We have a
4 method by which people are being diagnosed and
5 treated for communicable diseases, from
6 contagions known and maybe their derivative in
7 terms of their clinical base may be even unknown
8 as we speak but they are, in fact, being
9 diagnosed, we know, and monitored -- care is
10 being monitored. All of that would disappear as
11 a result of this and, in fact, endanger the
12 public safety.
13 You know, there's something much
14 worse than all of that with this bill, though.
15 It does get into the issue of the divisions, the
16 scars that are in our community. We have enough
17 of those in the mixed and beautiful, in Mayor
18 Dinkins' terms, mosaic that we have in New York
19 City, but this kind of thing would create
20 tremendous divisions in our community.
21 I just want to cite for the
22 record what has happened in California and the
23 consequences of Proposition 187 in the everyday
9876
1 life of people there in that state.
2 A woman waiting to board a bus
3 was told by the bus driver, quote, "We don't
4 have to let 'wetbacks' on this bus", end of
5 quote, before he drove off without her.
6 A supermarket check-out clerk
7 demanded to see a Social Security card from a
8 Latino woman as she tried to purchase groceries.
9 A fifth grade teacher asked
10 students during class if they had immigration
11 papers and then assigned students homework to
12 write about their parents' immigration status.
13 A Little League coach required
14 team members to show proof of their parents'
15 lawful immigration status before being admitted
16 to the team.
17 And lastly, I'll cite this one.
18 A 12-year-old victim of leukemia died after his
19 parents decided not to take him to the hospital
20 for fear of deportation.
21 These are the kinds of real
22 things that happen to real people in an
23 atmosphere of division, in an atmosphere of
9877
1 vigilante justice and the kind of call to arms
2 that this very distressing bill -- set of bills
3 proposes to accomplish. It proposes ostensibly
4 to save money. In the long run as you look at
5 it, not only does it make us an ugly, ugly,
6 hateful and angry society, but it does cost us
7 money.
8 If you look at it in terms of the
9 health and safety concerns that we cited in the
10 debate, it becomes clear. Would you rather
11 treat one illegal alien child or adult for a
12 contagious disease? Would you rather keep that
13 monitoring system in place or would you let all
14 of us be infected with that virus, both known
15 and unknown?
16 It also imposes the kind of
17 tremendous cost on local governments that
18 Senator Padavan will not admit to but anybody
19 who is a county executive or in charge of a
20 municipality or in charge of a hospital will
21 tell you that they must incur new costs as a
22 result of implementing this legislation.
23 It does exact a huge financial
9878
1 and human toll on our society and brings us
2 further apart in our mission to be one in this
3 society. Do we want to keep costs down? Do we
4 believe in the federal and state statutes as
5 Senator Padavan attempted to lecture me on?
6 Yes, absolutely we do. However, we do not
7 believe that we ought to make doctors who took
8 an oath to provide care, teachers who take an
9 oath to educate, social workers to heal and
10 provide services to those in need, we ought not
11 make them INS agents and we ought not do that to
12 New Yorkers because we stand for much, much
13 better.
14 We should not accentuate the
15 divisions that exist in our society with these
16 kinds of provisions that really speak to maybe a
17 modicum of a problem but certainly not a problem
18 that cannot be overcome by more federal impetus
19 and investment in this regard.
20 We thank -- Mr. President, we
21 thank you and we thank Senator Padavan for
22 answering or attempting to answer some of the
23 questions I've posed today.
9879
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 I'm sorry, Senator Marchi.
4 SENATOR MARCHI: I just wanted to
5 add a postscript.
6 Senator Espada, I certainly don't
7 blame you for the sentiment you have because I
8 think it's a shared sentiment in this chamber,
9 and you see human need and you want to respond,
10 and if we had the magic just by saying aye or
11 nay to any particular legislation, of providing
12 plenty of -- producing all the aid possible no
13 matter where people come from in whatever
14 number, we don't have that power. We live in a
15 real world. Our stride can't be much longer
16 than our legs because we simply will not reach
17 that point if we attempt to do it.
18 We attempt to enlarge on the
19 possible and that's a noble sentiment and we
20 should always keep on doing that, but what
21 happens when the demand is greater than the
22 substance, the public substance that you have to
23 meet it, and you don't reverse this process.
9880
1 The only way to reverse it is to reverse the
2 process of losing employment in this state and
3 reducing the amount of revenue that might
4 otherwise be available to this state. I'm
5 talking about that substance that we have to
6 meet the problems specifically.
7 What we do, Mr. President, is to
8 put more water in the soup. That is the only
9 answer. If there are more people at that table,
10 the only way you can do it is to put more water
11 in the soup.
12 Now, I don't think you're
13 advocating that, Senator Espada, because I know
14 your sentiments are noble and good ones, but it
15 means that either more water in the soup, less
16 money for shelter, for the basic needs that we
17 have simply because it has to be spread out over
18 a greater number. It means perhaps not being
19 able to sustain a fare. It means a lot of
20 things, all going to the dilution of what we can
21 bring to aid human discomfort.
22 It's not easy for Senator Padavan
23 to get up and advocate something which he, in
9881
1 his heart, given the opportunity and the
2 circumstances and the wherewithal would like to
3 meet these needs, but if we depart completely
4 from any sense of realism, if we toss realism to
5 the wind, this is exactly what is going to
6 happen.
7 Do you have an answer? Is there
8 an answer? Do we have that magic here where we
9 can, just by legislation, provide more on the
10 tables of those who hunger? Unless we adopt
11 prudent policy, we do it at the expense of
12 people that have real needs. We cannot respond
13 in measure to people who have real needs -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
15 me, Senator Marchi.
16 SENATOR MARCHI: -- unless we
17 conserve that capability.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
19 me, Senator Marchi.
20 Senator Mendez, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR MENDEZ: I wonder, Mr.
22 President, if Senator Marchi would yield for a
23 couple of questions.
9882
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Marchi, do you yield to Senator Mendez?
3 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Senator is happy to yield.
6 SENATOR MENDEZ: You know, Mr.
7 President, I really -- I agree with Senator
8 Marchi and also with Senator Padavan and many
9 other Senators here that are supporting this
10 bill. I agree to the -- because I know that
11 they are not mean-spirited individuals, but if
12 they could, they would put tons and tons of
13 water into the soup, quoting my esteemed college
14 but, see, the problem isn't -- this is going to
15 be my question. The problem is that all of this
16 is being based on false premises.
17 For example, I have statistics
18 here, Senator Marchi, to the effect that
19 immigrants, including illegal aliens pay $70.3
20 billion per year in taxes while they received
21 only $42.9 billion in services in education and
22 public assistance.
23 Do you -- wouldn't you say,
9883
1 Senator Marchi, that that, in a sense, could be
2 interpreted as these people paying their own
3 way?
4 SENATOR MARCHI: The pluses and
5 minuses, Senator, Barbara Jordan, who has been
6 working assiduously, has said commenting on this
7 fact, that there is absolutely no substantiation
8 to this. The fact is that we are at the bottom
9 of the list of 50 states and tied with Louisiana
10 in terms of credit, in terms of our credit. 40
11 percent of the jobs that were lost during a
12 period of revival these last few years occurred
13 in this state. That is the real world. That is
14 the problem.
15 Our revenues are not adequate to
16 meet many of the problems of people coming in in
17 great numbers and pressing that -- making that
18 -- accentuating that burden.
19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Marchi,
20 if you will yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Marchi, do you yield to another question?
23 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes.
9884
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Marchi,
2 another often made premise is that people think
3 that our country is being inundated with these
4 millions and millions and millions of people
5 coming here. That is not the case.
6 The statistics show that, on a
7 yearly basis 1.1 million immigrants arrive into
8 the United States each year. Of these, some
9 700,000 enter as lawful permanent residents and
10 another 100- to 150,000 enter as legal refugees,
11 an estimated 300,000 undocumented immigrants
12 otherwise who stay over and those 300,000 on a
13 yearly basis.
14 Wouldn't you think, Senator
15 Marchi, that they are distributed not only in
16 New York State, but in Miami, Texas, Phoenix,
17 Arizona, all the other southern states as well,
18 so that we are not entire... in a sense we are
19 exaggerating the numbers of this invasion of
20 immigrants, illegal and otherwise, coming into
21 our country that would tax our resources to no
22 end? Do you have any comment to make to that?
23 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, the
9885
1 statistics that I have of illegal immigrants in
2 the state of New York range in the area of
3 75,000 per year, in this state alone. It
4 varies, and, if the federal government which
5 controls immigration and which monitors the
6 coming and going -- you mention the states and
7 you've mentioned them accurately, Florida,
8 Arizona, California, Texas, or whatever states
9 are the states that are the main recipients, but
10 there are 50 states and you named five and those
11 are the five that have the bulk.
12 Now -
13 SENATOR MENDEZ: Now, will the
14 Senator yield for another question?
15 SENATOR MARCHI: Let me -- please
16 permit me to finish answering your question. If
17 the federal government having the responsibility
18 and they, you know, they have the responsi
19 bility, they even have sponsorship which must be
20 resorted to in the event -- to guarantee that
21 there is a modicum of support for people coming
22 in, all of these things, if they did what they
23 were supposed to be doing, you know, the other
9886
1 45 states, forget them. I mean there are five
2 that are obvious for means of propinquity, for
3 means of traveling, for a number of reasons. If
4 they did what they were supposed to do -- and
5 this goes for Democrats or Republicans or
6 whoever is controlling Washington; they don't
7 care. They don't give a darn good -- well, I
8 won't say it all, but they don't care. If they
9 did that, Senator Padavan and myself would rip
10 up all this legislation and toss it to the winds
11 if they accepted their responsibility for a few
12 years. Then they would be in the system where
13 there is contribution, where there is -- where
14 there is compensation for -- for the -- we make
15 our -- we make our contribution, the state does
16 and the federal government does. If they did
17 that, I would get off this bill in a hurry and
18 so would Senator Padavan. We're talking about
19 taking it on a hundred percent on our back, and
20 that's not fair.
21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Will the Senator
22 yield to another question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9887
1 Marchi.
2 SENATOR MENDEZ: I will accept,
3 Senator Marchi, the answer that you gave to me
4 when I mentioned that on a yearly basis there
5 are 300,000 illegal immigrants coming into the
6 United States, and you mentioned that in New
7 York State the figure is 75,000.
8 Well, O.K. I will accept that.
9 Senator Padavan came up with a figure that, in
10 the city of New York, the Health and Hospital
11 Corporations do spend $63 million in providing
12 medical services to these illegal population.
13 Wouldn't you say that, if we are saying that we
14 have 75,000 illegal immigrants, and they spend
15 $63 million in -- in the state, each one of them
16 is spending more than a million dollars a year,
17 wouldn't you say that that's a little bit
18 exaggerated?
19 SENATOR MARCHI: I believe that
20 what you're doing, you're taking a year's -- a
21 year's bottom line, but this is cumulative, so
22 it comes into the hundreds of thousands with
23 just -- since 1990, five years, where are we?
9888
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: We're $63
2 million dollars spent in a year for medical
3 services provided to -- to illegal aliens and,
4 if we agree that, there's 75,000 illegal aliens
5 in the city of New York that figure of the 3
6 million would be accounting for over a million
7 dollars, at least over a million dollars in
8 health services for the illegal aliens.
9 But that's O.K. So that I am
10 going to support, Senator Marchi, with the wrong
11 premise behind this bill, and that is secondly,
12 we all do not want to impose mandates on
13 localities, and you were right, Senator Marchi.
14 The federal government has done a very horrible
15 job in controlling our frontiers. O.K.
16 SENATOR MARCHI: What would -
17 SENATOR MENDEZ: My question is,
18 do we want our hospitals in the city of New York
19 and throughout this state to become legal
20 departments in immigration departments? Do we
21 want that, to impose on these health -- the
22 health care legal system a civilized function?
23 We as a state should demand, and I mean demand,
9889
1 that our federal government takes care of its
2 business.
3 SENATOR MARCHI: Now, you're
4 talking my language, Senator.
5 SENATOR MENDEZ: That's instead
6 of the business of doing what they're supposed
7 to do.
8 SENATOR MARCHI: I agree with
9 you. Now we're in agreement.
10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you,
11 Senator Marchi. Let me assure you, I am
12 convinced first that this legislation is
13 completely founded in -- in hocus-pocus
14 statistics. I believe that this legislation
15 could be beautifully described as the -- the
16 road to hell is paved with good intentions.
17 I mean that because we will be -
18 we would be making our city hospitals little
19 immigration officers performing several
20 functions that our government should have been
21 performing well, and they have failed in doing
22 so.
23 Besides that, the stereotype
9890
1 about illegal immigrants or immigrants, whether
2 they are legal or illegal, are rather unfounded.
3 I mention here that they do pay more taxes than
4 they use in governmental services. So,
5 therefore, on the last -- and lastly, the most
6 horrible thing about this is that it will end up
7 incurring in acts of horrible discrimination
8 against genuine citizens.
9 So I urge my fellow Senators to
10 vote against this legislation.
11 Thank you, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
14 Senator Leichter.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
16 I didn't intend to debate this bill. There's
17 two other bills that Senator Padavan has that
18 I'd like to comment on and I think, while I
19 wasn't here, but I heard that Senator Espada and
20 Senator Mendez, I think, have raised some, I
21 think, important points, but I heard you say one
22 thing, Senator Marchi, and it has to be refuted
23 because I think this is really so much the lot
9891
1 of these Padavan bills and, frankly, it's a
2 statement that I would not have expected from
3 you, and you know the high regard and respect I
4 have for you.
5 But I came into the chamber and
6 you were debating with Senator Mendez and you
7 said, you know, this state has a debt rating or
8 its bonds are second from the lowest, that we've
9 lost 400,000 jobs and, of course, those are
10 facts. But to, in some way, relate it to either
11 legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, I just
12 think is totally unfair. You know, illegal
13 immigrants, Senator, did not force you or
14 Governor Cuomo or others to do the fiscal
15 gimmicks that -- that were the basis for our
16 having that low rating, and the illegal
17 immigrants didn't cause the loss of 400,000
18 manufacturing jobs.
19 Obviously, they were lost for a
20 lot of reasons, most of which had absolutely
21 nothing to do with anything that New York State
22 did or didn't do, because of world economic
23 factors, and so on. But there seems to be this
9892
1 perception out there that it's the immigrants,
2 whether legal or illegal, that are causing some
3 of the social problems we have, some of the
4 fiscal problems that government has, and it's
5 just wrong. It's totally wrong, and Senator
6 Padavan and I are going to have a chance to
7 debate some of the facts relating at least to
8 legal immigrants.
9 But whatever the merits or
10 demerits of this bill are, and I understand some
11 of the concerns that Senator Padavan has and you
12 have, that the state of New York shouldn't pick
13 up a cost whether it's what I think is
14 relatively minor or whether, as you think, it's
15 a loss, certainly it's something that we should
16 not be burdened with if the federal government
17 doesn't enforce the immigration laws into this
18 country.
19 But we should not blame the
20 immigrants for the fiscal problems and the
21 economic problems that this state has, and I
22 just want to say that, and I know that in the
23 heat of debate, things are said that may not
9893
1 always be particularly relevant or have
2 pertinency as far as the debate goes, but I
3 think we ought to be clear on that because there
4 is -- there is the bashing of -- of immigrants,
5 and as -- as I pointed out in the debate, and
6 certainly nobody knows it better than you
7 because you stood very proudly as a leader of a
8 group that came here, as all of us did, as
9 immigrants.
10 We did come as immigrants. We've
11 created a wonderful country. That doesn't mean
12 to say that there aren't things that sometimes
13 we need to do in relation to immigration, but we
14 certainly shouldn't blame or scapegoat the
15 immigrants for things that they have absolutely
16 no responsibility for.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
18 recognizes Senator Marchi.
19 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
20 the immigrants -- the immigrants are not the
21 villains of the piece. They're victims. When
22 they bring them in, when the ship comes in and
23 they -- they've gouged people -- well, there was
9894
1 one -- one piece in the New York Times today
2 about paying $6,000 per person and coming all
3 the way from behind the Iron Curtain. It's a
4 long, long article today in the New York Times,
5 paying $6,000 so that they come over here,
6 people who probably went through enormous
7 sacrifices. They are victims.
8 The letter I wrote to Ronald
9 Soloway, Director of Government Relations of the
10 United Jewish Appeal: It is my opinion that, if
11 the federal government was performing its
12 functions under the United States Constitution
13 and the immigration laws, these bills would be
14 unnecessary. Until such time as the federal
15 government lives up to its obligations, these
16 bills are necessary to protect the people of
17 this state.
18 The enrollment in school, the
19 demographic plateau that it reached about two
20 years ago, three years ago, was 850,000
21 thousand. It is now a million 1. The
22 difference is not the demographic indigenous
23 increase. It's the people coming in.
9895
1 Now, we have to -- we have to
2 have some sanity in administering this great
3 human problem, and we can't do it all. We can't
4 take on the whole world. I mean your own home,
5 a hundred people come in, you just can't put
6 them into your house.
7 So it's -- they're not -- they're
8 not scapegoats. They are not people that we
9 have to point an accusing finger at. It's the
10 people that exploit them and without -- to be
11 perfectly candid, those who abide by it and
12 don't react to it only to the detriment of these
13 very same people.
14 I -- I still feel that Senator
15 Padavan has undertaken commendable leadership in
16 this effort and I join him in it, and I -- I
17 would hope -- I would hope perhaps we ought to
18 have more dialogue with our own legislative
19 representatives down in Washington, but I have a
20 feeling that probably we wouldn't have too much
21 disagreement with our people down there, but
22 unless they start hearing our voice in Washing
23 ton, I say both parties, any of the politicians
9896
1 down there who are -- who are the movers and
2 shakers and have a role in what is happening now
3 deserve our -- certainly don't deserve our
4 approbation, and they ought to rise to their
5 responsibilities.
6 But this article appeared today,
7 A-12, New Road to West for Illegal Immigrants,
8 and it gives you -- it's a very, very fine
9 article by Raymond Bonner, trafficking gangs in
10 Bulgaria.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
12 me, Senator Marchi. Senator Marchi.
13 SENATOR MARCHI: It ranges from
14 6- to 4,000 -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Marchi.
17 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me
19 just a moment. It shouldn't be necessary for
20 you to have to yell to be heard in this
21 chamber. It just should not be necessary. So I
22 would ask people, if they feel that they have to
23 have a conversation, to take it outside the
9897
1 chamber, please.
2 Thank you for the interruption,
3 Senator Marchi.
4 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you,
5 Senator, Mr. President.
6 In fact, they start out: On a
7 recent Saturday morning, some three score
8 residents of this picturesque mountain community
9 -- this is a community in Poland -- mountain
10 community assembled at the ski jump for a trip
11 to the United States, first by bus to Germany,
12 then on Lufthansa across the Atlantic. They
13 include a grandmother, three-year-old grand
14 child, all people that, golly, we ought to be
15 out there, you know, with open arms and greeting
16 them. Each had paid $6,000 -- can you imagine
17 the sacrifice that was made in these communities
18 to do this, or the -- or in China where they
19 would pile them into a vessel and then they were
20 stranded. I don't know whether some of them
21 were drowned or not, but these are -- these are
22 the circumstances that we're living with, and
23 all I think -- I say if there is an accusing
9898
1 finger that I point it's the sins of omission by
2 those who have the responsibility and are
3 refusing to discharge it.
4 This -- I think this legislation
5 makes eminent sense because there is no alter
6 native. I wish there were. The alternative is
7 for people who have the responsibility to do the
8 things that they're supposed to be doing.
9 SENATOR TULLY: Last section.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll. )
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
18 the results when tabulated.
19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
20 the negative on Calendar 1296 are Senators
21 Abate, Connor, Espada, Leichter, Montgomery,
22 Oppenheimer, Paterson and Santiago, also Senator
23 Markowitz, also Senator Mendez, also Senator
9899
1 Gold.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48, nays
4 11.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Senator Tully.
8 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
9 President. Can we take up Calendar Number 1292,
10 and speaking only for myself, I know that in
11 view of the proximity of the Calendar 1296 and
12 1292, that I intend to vividly recall in
13 explicit detail all of the stirring remarks that
14 were made by the speakers on Calendar 1296 as we
15 go into 1292.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the title of Calendar Number
18 1292.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number
21 701, an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
22 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully
23 admitted aliens.
9900
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Padavan, explanation of Calendar Number 1292 has
4 been asked for by the Deputy Majority Leader,
5 Senator Paterson.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Briefly -
7 SENATOR TULLY: Excuse me, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Tully, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR TULLY: Sorry to
12 interrupt Senator Padavan in the explanation but
13 could we recognize -
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I was about to
15 say, Senator Tully, we had explained this bill
16 before, and then at the request of the Minority
17 it was laid aside, so there may not be a need
18 for another explanation, but if there is a
19 question, I'd be happy to answer it.
20 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Tully.
23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I
9901
1 would ask that you recognize Senator Espada for
2 purposes of voting on this particular bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Paterson, do you need an explanation or can we
5 read the last section?
6 SENATOR PATERSON: If we could
7 recognize Senator Espada to permit his vote, I'm
8 going to ask a question on the bill, and I
9 believe Senator Leichter would also speak on it.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 Senator Espada, how do you vote?
15 SENATOR ESPADA: In the
16 negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The roll
18 call is withdrawn.
19 The Chair would recognize Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm asking if
22 Senator Padavan would yield for a question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9902
1 Padavan, do you yield?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
3 Padavan we were talking earlier because you
4 explained this bill earlier, we even got into
5 the discussion a little bit. We were talking
6 about the Mannino case and what I had asked you
7 and I never got to hear your answer, was that if
8 the Mannino case struck down the current law
9 that actually exists, the statute that we have
10 in this state, since we might agree that your
11 legislation has more teeth in it, why do you
12 think a future court in an analogous decision
13 would not strike down your legislation?
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
15 Senator Paterson. I believe that's an excellent
16 question.
17 Actually, the -- to repeat what
18 you said, so I can answer the question properly,
19 the 1977 statute that was struck down by virtue
20 of the Mannino versus Perales case, that statute
21 said that the so-called sponsor's agreement was
22 to be enforced, namely, that someone coming here
23 under that arrangement, there was an obligation
9903
1 on the part of the sponsor to maintain the
2 alien, the immigrant for at least three years.
3 Mannino indicated, in that case, that by virtue
4 of an interpretation of our state Constitution,
5 that that statute was not appropriate, and so in
6 1992 that statute ceased to exist.
7 Now, what we have done here is
8 not put in place something with more teeth but
9 less teeth, because all we're saying here is
10 that, if a person coming into this country under
11 a sponsorship agreement which is mandated by
12 federal law, that that person, that immigrant
13 seeking economic assistance from the sponsor,
14 seek it. If the sponsor cannot provide it, as
15 we say very directly here in the bill, is unable
16 to meet such individual's needs, is no longer in
17 the state, then that person is entitled and can
18 qualify under the Mannino versus Perales
19 decision for the full range of services provided
20 by New York State.
21 So all our proposal here, our
22 proposed bill, is a watered down version of what
23 was law in 1977 up to 1992 and, based on our
9904
1 very careful reading of the decision and an
2 excellent report done by Senator Marchi largely
3 on the Mannino versus Perales case, that our
4 bill would stand muster in relationship to the
5 state Constitution.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
9 Senator Padavan.
10 Before yielding to Senator
11 Leichter, I just have one follow-up question.
12 Senator Padavan, regardless of what pressure we,
13 as the state, try to create for the sponsor, if
14 the sponsor reneges on even what we perceive to
15 be an obligation to pay under Mannino versus
16 Perales, my understandings of that case would be
17 that the immigrant would still get care.
18 In other words, I see what -
19 what you're trying to do and actually, if this
20 were just an action between the state and the
21 sponsor, perhaps it might even be a way to
22 accomplish what you are trying to achieve, but
23 in the dicta from Mannino versus Perales, I get
9905
1 the impression that they were really instructing
2 -- what they were really instructing us is to
3 the need for care of the immigrant who, in this
4 particular case, we would assume would get the
5 care, is that -- is that not your understanding
6 of it?
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I'm not
8 sure I quite understand the question, but let me
9 try my best to answer it.
10 First, I again wish to refer to
11 the commission that I discussed earlier in the
12 prior bill. Again, we have a very unequivocal
13 statement from the commission, its members and
14 its chairperson. It says, "Sponsors should be
15 held financially responsible for the immigrants
16 that they bring to this country. In particular,
17 the commission believes that the affidavits of
18 support signed by sponsors should be legally
19 enforceable. The contingencies may change, if
20 the sponsor's financial circumstances change
21 significantly for reasons that occur after the
22 immigrant's entrance."
23 Now, we have an anomaly in New
9906
1 York State, and that is our state Constitution
2 so we can only go so far and what we are trying
3 to do is go that limit in this bill. Basically
4 what it boils down to is that our legislation
5 would give the state flexibility and require
6 that, at a minimum, the sponsoring -- sponsored
7 alien seek economic assistance from his or her
8 sponsor, and that's really all this does,
9 because that's all we can do unless we are
10 forced to amend the state Constitution which, if
11 you read Senator Marchi's dissertation, his
12 theses on the subject, there's a lot of merit to
13 it, but that's another issue and that's
14 something we need not get into today.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Senator
18 Padavan, I'm going to yield to Senator Leichter
19 but, first, on the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson, on the bill.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll have to
23 admit that Senator Padavan has exposed me after
9907
1 that fine -- after that fine pronouncement by
2 Senator Leichter, I think Senator Padavan is
3 right, I'm not a deputy, I'm just an acting
4 because I'm not making myself clear, and I got
5 to be a deputy for three hours and now I'm just
6 back to an acting.
7 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
8 it's affirmative action.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Affirmative
10 action.
11 My problem, Senator Padavan, with
12 this bill is we are denying programs to the
13 immigrant. If your bill had been slanted in
14 such a direction where we were actually
15 recouping the amounts from the sponsor, then I
16 think we would have been more in line with the
17 Mannino vs. Perales decision, but my contention
18 is that that decision was made because of the
19 state Constitution and Article XVII, and the
20 whole emphasis on treating those who are in
21 need. That's probably an issue that you and I
22 wouldn't agree on, and neither could we even
23 come to a conclusion on, but that's where I
9908
1 think the bill might be properly amended to
2 focus the force of what you're trying to
3 accomplish in the right direction.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
6 recognizes Senator Leichter.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
8 thank you.
9 First of all, let me say to
10 Senator Paterson, you, Senator, very definitely
11 have earned not only the title that we now
12 correctly identify you with, but I think you've
13 earned greater titles like Deputy Majority
14 Leader and, in fact, you've made an excellent
15 point and, Senator, if people on the other side
16 of the aisle don't understand it's not a short
17 coming on your part. It's their refusal to
18 understand a perfectly reasonable proposal that
19 you've made, and I'd like to get into that a
20 little further, but I first want to deal with
21 the underlying thesis of this legislation that
22 Senator Padavan has proposed, and I was prompted
23 to get up and say a couple of words in response
9909
1 to my good friend, Senator Marchi, and let me
2 say nobody, to my mind, more exemplifies the
3 wonders of this country and the contribution
4 that immigrants have made, that when you take a
5 look at somebody such as Senator Marchi, I don't
6 know quite your genealogy and when your parents
7 came here or whether you're second or third
8 generation or whatever, but you stand very
9 proudly for the wonderful accomplishments that
10 immigrant groups have made in this -- in this
11 country.
12 But what underlies these bills is
13 a feeling that immigrants, whether legal or
14 illegal, are unfairly burdening our system and
15 that's why I was prompted to get up because I
16 was -- I was surprised at Senator Marchi's
17 statement which somehow related all of our
18 economic and financial problems to illegal
19 immigrants.
20 This bill deals with legal
21 immigrants and there is this perception that
22 legal immigrants are creating a great burden
23 because they overuse Medicaid, other social
9910
1 services, veteran benefits, and so on. That's
2 not the case.
3 I want to refer you to a very
4 recent study by the Port of New York, and I
5 think all of us understand or should know that
6 the Port of New York does wonderful demographic
7 and economic analyses of the whole region, and I
8 may also say I shared this report with Senator
9 Padavan. He's going to have some opposite
10 viewpoints, but we're going to -- I think we're
11 going to convince him that I'm right.
12 Clearly, clearly, what I'm about
13 to say is indisputable because it comes right
14 from the report. Headline on a section of the
15 report: Most recent immigrants -- I'm reading
16 the wrong section.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah, read that
18 section.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will. We're
20 going to read all sections because we want
21 everybody, we want -
22 Read this section. "Immigrants
23 do not overload welfare system." Let me
9911
1 repeat. "Immigrants do not overload welfare
2 system." I'm going to read. It's brief.
3 "Contrary to popular belief immigrants to the
4 region do not burden the welfare system. The
5 difference between the proportion of native and
6 foreign-born receiving public assistance are
7 small. Of the region's foreign-born population,
8 4.5 percent received public assistance in 1990,
9 compared to 4.0 percent to the native-born. In
10 New York City, a slightly higher proportion of
11 native-born obtain public assistance than
12 foreign-born, 6.4 contrasted to 5.7 percent."
13 This is indisputable. These are the facts.
14 This is their study.
15 Now, you may say, well, there
16 shouldn't be one illegal immigrant who unfairly
17 burdens the system or one foreign-born immigrant
18 illegally who burdens the system or, for that
19 matter, there shouldn't be one native-born
20 person who unfairly burdens the system. I think
21 we all agree on that, and we can write laws and
22 achieve administrative procedures in a way to
23 avoid any abuse whatsoever, we ought to do it.
9912
1 But we shouldn't do it in such a way that you're
2 going to end up penalizing people who are
3 entitled to services or entitled to governmental
4 help, and that's the problem that I have with
5 Senator Padavan's bill, because in every way, by
6 seeking to focus on those who may be abusing the
7 system, you do it in such a broad-based manner
8 that he inevitably will end up denying needed
9 services, needed help to people who should be
10 receiving it, and it's in our benefit to help
11 some of these people. Doesn't help this state
12 of New York, as was pointed out in a discussion
13 I had with Senator Abate.
14 Does it help us when somebody is
15 here illegally, and has TB to say, Oh, we're not
16 going to give you services and let them go
17 around and possibly infect other people? Does it
18 help us if we have children who are going to be
19 denied food and shelter and other services and
20 are out on the streets and the problems that
21 that -- that that can create? Obviously not.
22 Let me -- let me point out
23 another section of this report because Senator
9913
1 Padavan is going to refer to it, and that's the
2 one that says, "Most recent immigrants have
3 highest poverty levels," but it then goes on to
4 say that, in New York City, the native-born
5 actually had a higher poverty rate than the
6 foreign-born.
7 This report also shows that the
8 most recent immigrants are less likely to be
9 receiving public assistance, that actually it's
10 the immigrants who have been here a number of
11 years who have a higher rate, but still overall
12 a rate that's comparable to native-born people
13 so let's -- let's get rid of the shibboleth.
14 Let's get rid of the myth that, Oh, my God,
15 we've having such a terrible drain on our
16 financial resources because of legal immigrants
17 or illegal immigrants. It just is not the
18 case.
19 This is the report by the Port of
20 New York. It's available to all the members.
21 Read it, and I think you will see that what
22 we're dealing with is really not a major
23 problem.
9914
1 Let me just say on this bill, the
2 problem with this bill is, you think it runs
3 directly into the Mannino versus Perales
4 prohibition because what this bill says is that
5 you cannot get public service unless you
6 establish that the person who provided the
7 affidavit no longer resides in the United States
8 or has become unable to meet such individual
9 needs.
10 Now, suppose somebody comes and
11 says, "I need meat," and they ask, "Well, have
12 you gone to your sponsor? What did your sponsor
13 say?"
14 He said, "The heck with you. I
15 didn't really intend to cover you. I'm not
16 going to cover you with anything."
17 "Have you taken any action?"
18 "Yes, I'm suing him in court."
19 "Is that person, is he well
20 off?"
21 "Yes. He's got a big estate in
22 Westchester and a house on Fifth Avenue, and
23 co-ops," and so on, but under the words of this
9915
1 bill, since he resides in the United States, and
2 he has the means of helping, the person who
3 applies to the social service agency will be
4 deemed ineligible.
5 Now, there's an easy way to have
6 dealt with this, and I think that's what Senator
7 Paterson is trying to point out. Why not give
8 the state of New York -- I'm not sure that we
9 have to give it; they may have it already -- the
10 right in those instances to sue the sponsor?
11 I agree. The sponsor should be
12 responsible. I came to this country. I know
13 somebody who put up an affidavit for me, and,
14 frankly, I was in this recent period where we
15 weren't going to get paid, I was going to go
16 back to him, but apparently it was good only for
17 three years, and I came some 50 years ago.
18 But -
19 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
20 would the Senator yield?
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes,
22 certainly.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9916
1 Marchi, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator Leichter
3 yields.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Leichter, do you yield?
7 SENATOR LEICHER: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Leichter yields.
10 SENATOR MARCHI: My understanding
11 is there is no recruitment. There is a string
12 of cases where rerecruitment was attempted.
13 There is no recruitment under the federal
14 arrangement. Even if you tried, you know, you
15 don't make out in court.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
17 know you've studied this area, and I know you're
18 an excellent lawyer, and so I accept what you
19 say and if you would yield, I just want to ask
20 you exploring this point, has recoupment been
21 tried on the basis of third-party beneficiary?
22 That's the first part of my question.
23 The second part of my question
9917
1 is, if we now gave -- if we now gave New York
2 State a right of action, and I understand we're
3 dealing after all with a federal law and there's
4 a question whether we can give the right of
5 action, but have you looked into that question?
6 If we had a bill here by Senator Padavan saying
7 New York State -- well, O.K. Let me ask Senator
8 Marchi to yield but, if you want to yield, if
9 you want to answer the question, Senator
10 Padavan.
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Go ahead, ask
12 him.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, let me
14 ask you the question first, Senator Padavan.
15 I'm sorry, Senator Marchi. Just on the legal
16 period which you might go after the sponsor and
17 whether there have been any cases where the
18 action has been brought as a third-party
19 beneficiary? Why -- I don't know why New York
20 State would not be a third-party beneficiary.
21 SENATOR MARCHI: Well -
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I would
23 suggest that we ask the Department of Social
9918
1 Services to explore that because it would seem
2 to me that we clearly are third-party
3 beneficiaries.
4 Let me now ask the second part of
5 my question, Senator Padavan, if you would
6 yield.
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'll answer the
8 first part, if you don't mind, if you would
9 yield.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: You can answer
11 it anyway.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: We have looked
13 into that, and certainly it would be a desirable
14 thing to do. Let the state go out to the
15 sponsor and say you have signed this affidavit,
16 you're not complying with it, now reimburse us
17 for the money we're spending.
18 The problem is we're preempted by
19 federal law. The sponsor's agreement, by
20 federal law, does not allow us to seek that
21 avenue of redress. It would have been beautiful
22 to do that, and I would be in agreement with
23 you, but it's just not possible. All right,
9919
1 Senator?
2 Now, I hope that answers your
3 question. By the way, may I have that report?
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes,
5 certainly. And, Senator, the second part of my
6 question, I guess your answer would also take
7 part of the second. Are you saying that we're
8 preempted -- we're preempted also from -- if we
9 give New York State a right of action, you're
10 saying it would be a nullity because federal law
11 governs?
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I
14 respectfully then suggest, if that is the case,
15 and I know you've looked into it, that we ought
16 to ask our representatives in Congress to change
17 it because certainly the whole intent and
18 purpose of the affidavit is to see that the
19 immigrant who comes here under the auspices of
20 such a sponsor not become a public charge and,
21 since the person ends up becoming a public
22 charge at our expense, we certainly should have
23 the right to pursue the sponsor.
9920
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
2 may I respond?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Padavan to respond.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: The Shields
6 Commission on Immigration Reform has made such a
7 recommendation to the Congress. It is one of
8 the many recommendations that I would want to
9 seek for them to do just that.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator
11 Padavan, in view of that, I don't know why we're
12 dealing -- I don't know why we have this bill.
13 We're obviously looking at a resolution which I
14 think is a fair resolution, a sensible
15 resolution and not a resolution which I think is
16 going to penalize immigrants who should be
17 entitled to get help.
18 Now, let's be very clear. I just
19 want to make it clear again. It's a very, very,
20 very small percentage of immigrants and of
21 recent immigrants, I think it's 2 percent, far
22 less than native born people who apply for
23 public assistance.
9921
1 Let me just finally say, it was
2 interesting because last night I came home and
3 I've been reading the book, "World of Our
4 Fathers", a wonderful book about the Jewish
5 immigration and life on the Lower East Side and
6 I just happened to be reading the chapter on how
7 the Jews were considered and treated by their
8 fellow New Yorkers and particularly by the press
9 and, of course, they were criticized very
10 severely, and there were some terrible
11 stereotypes and even very respected papers like
12 the Herald, the Herald at that time, and the
13 Tribune wrote about, you know, they're shift
14 less and they don't work and their habits aren't
15 good and they only take baths once a year -
16 Senator Marchi, I'm sure the same things that
17 they said about the Italians when they first
18 came, and the Irish, and so on, and while we are
19 a nation of immigrants and we do really work
20 well together, we unfortunately do have the
21 habit of being unfairly critical of new
22 immigrant groups.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
9922
1 me, Senator Leichter. Senator Marchi why do you
2 rise?
3 SENATOR MARCHI: I just want to
4 say, not Northern Italians.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I don't
6 think that anybody should have said anything bad
7 about any Italian, north or south, because your
8 contributions to this country have been wonder
9 ful as have been all of the groups that have
10 come here.
11 My point is that while certainly
12 nobody is saying anything derogatory about the
13 new immigrant groups, and they tend to come
14 mainly from South America and Asia and they are
15 going to make their contribution and many are
16 already, as the Italians have, as the Jewish
17 people from Eastern Europe have made and all the
18 other groups who have come here, but my point is
19 there's that same sort of sense of, well, these
20 people, they're creating problems; they're a
21 burden, and so on, and I think when you look at
22 the facts fairly, when you read this report, you
23 will see that is not the case, and I submit to
9923
1 you this package of bills that Senator Padavan
2 has put forward which some people have called
3 New York State's version of Proposition 187 in
4 California, really is not needed. It's not
5 appropriate, and I think in some way it demeans
6 us. I think it demeans us, not that we're not
7 justified in trying to protect New York State
8 from unjust burdens, but it demeans us to the
9 extent that we are probably taking away rights
10 from people who are here legally or people who
11 may be here illegally, but require some of basic
12 humanitarian aid, and I think that goes contrary
13 to the tradition, not only of New York but of
14 this country that has made us great.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Padavan.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Earlier Senator
19 Leichter made reference to a very good report
20 recently published, and he and I talked about
21 this earlier, and when I returned his report to
22 him, I put a paper clip and underlined the
23 section which he did not read. He started to,
9924
1 but then he stopped himself, and what this
2 section says: Most recent immigrants have
3 highest poverty levels. The most recent
4 immigrants posted extremely high poverty rates.
5 Immigrants arriving between 1987 and 1990
6 registered a rate of 26 percent higher than the
7 region's minority population.
8 This, by the way, covers New
9 Jersey and the entire region. That statement
10 tracks very closely the data we recently
11 published in our report, the second report, so
12 when we say that over the past eight years, that
13 the immigrant population coming into this city
14 has had a significant economic burden on our
15 social services system, we are saying exactly
16 the same thing as this report. I find no
17 contradiction.
18 Let me finish, Senator, I'll be
19 glad to answer.
20 Senator Leichter was not in the
21 room when we were debating the prior bill when I
22 shared with the members a report from the New
23 York State Department of Social Services, who
9925
1 stated for the calendar year '92, illegal
2 aliens, just illegal aliens, accounted for
3 approximately $30 million in health care costs
4 in New York State, illegal aliens in 1992 for
5 that calendar year. That is not insignificant.
6 So I have to say to Senator
7 Leichter, that all of the data that's been
8 available, given the report he's talking about,
9 both macro data in terms of numbers, we have by
10 INS reports conservatively 510,000 of the half a
11 million illegal immigrants in New York State, 80
12 percent of them in New York City, the balance of
13 them in counties around New York City largely.
14 35 percent of the population of New York City is
15 foreign born, many of them citizens, many of
16 them immigrants, and certainly some, as I just
17 stated, significant percentage are here
18 illegally.
19 So we're talking about extensive
20 costs, social service costs, education costs,
21 criminal justice costs, and we look at those
22 numbers both from their total magnitude and as a
23 percentage of the population. If we have half a
9926
1 million, roughly, people who are here illegally
2 out of a city of 7 million, we're talking about
3 a significant portion of our population, and I
4 don't think we can walk away from it.
5 This particular bill is not a
6 panacea, nor are any of the bills, and as our
7 dialogue earlier indicated, if our state
8 Constitution permitted, if federal law
9 permitted, there might be better ways of
10 addressing the issue -- not might, there would
11 be better ways of addressing the issue of the
12 sponsor's affidavit, but those options do not
13 exist, and so we are taking this course and, as
14 I said earlier in my dialogue with Senator
15 Paterson, we're simply attempting to have the
16 sponsor seek the economic support of his -- the
17 sponsor -- the person's sponsor, to seek the
18 economic support of the sponsor in line with the
19 affidavit. If that does not become possible,
20 such a thing just doesn't come to fruition, then
21 obviously Mannino vs. Perales kicks in, our
22 state Constitution prevails, and that person
23 receives the full benefits.
9927
1 But let's not attempt to suggest
2 that the overall magnitude of the problem,
3 particularly in the area of social services, if
4 we listen to the welfare inspector general and
5 the provost, if we look at the reports from the
6 state and city Departments of Social Services,
7 if we look at the data provided by the census
8 pages, if we look at the back of our report you
9 will see the references, pages of credible
10 information, we have a significant economic
11 problem and, Senator, let me say parenthetically
12 I'm the grandson of Italian immigrants also from
13 Northern Italy, so Senator Marchi and I share a
14 common heritage. You may not view us both in
15 the same light, but we do.
16 In any event, I am sensitive to
17 their contribution, but I think, Senator,
18 something that has not been said here bears
19 being said. In the city of New York with a
20 large immigrant population, most of whom are
21 here legally, they are suffering. When you talk
22 about our classrooms bursting at the seams, as
23 Senator Marchi pointed out, that 150,000
9928
1 immigrant children coming in over the past three
2 or four years, with social service systems being
3 strained, with health care systems being
4 strained, that lawful immigrant population
5 coming here, as my grandparents did, legally,
6 seeking the benefits that this city, state and
7 nation have to offer, they are suffering because
8 those resources are being strained to the limit,
9 and they should not be.
10 We have to draw the line
11 somewhere, and I think what we're doing is
12 drawing the line in a very reasonable way.
13 We're saying, if you're here illegally, you're
14 here under certain arrangements, those things
15 should be attended to in a proper manner.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Leichter.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr.
19 President, Senator Padavan, when I referred to
20 Senator Marchi as a really proud example of how
21 wonderful the Italian immigrant group have done,
22 I mentioned him because I was debating him, but
23 you're certainly a fine example, and there are
9929
1 many others. In fact, all of us here, since
2 there are no native born -- native born -
3 native born but no native Americans, are all
4 immigrants and by virtue of being here, we've
5 certainly achieved something, and that's exactly
6 my point, how valuable immigration is and how
7 immigrants, once they adjust to this country and
8 accommodate and are able to make the
9 contribution that has made this the greatest
10 country in the world.
11 And Senator, the figures that you
12 were citing actually prove my point, the point
13 that I just made. First of all, you have made a
14 basic mistake in equating poverty levels with
15 social service. That's absolutely not the
16 case. It's obviously true. I mean it's a
17 truism throughout our history that immigrants
18 who come here tend to have a higher poverty
19 rate. I know my family came here, we had $10.
20 Your grandfather, I'm sure, didn't have much
21 more than that. You were poor when you came
22 here, but that didn't mean these people were on
23 social service.
9930
1 The social service aspect is the
2 figure that I gave you, lower percentage, lower
3 percentage for recent immigrants who are here
4 legally than for native born and beyond that,
5 and that's the point I was making how we're
6 eventually able, our immigrant group. To make
7 such a contribution, because that section that
8 you referred to goes on to say as the time of
9 arrival moves backward, the poverty rate
10 steadily declines until it reaches 7.4 percent
11 for arrivals between 1950 and 1959. For
12 immigrants who arrived before 1950, the poverty
13 rate takes a leap upwards, because I assume
14 they're older.
15 Well, I think, if they came here
16 before 1950, they're probably grandparents and
17 that's the reason and, as we know, the elderly
18 in this society often are poor. But the overall
19 point is that there is no great problem in this
20 state where our social service resources are
21 being drained by immigrants. That's the point.
22 With this bill, the problem is,
23 and I -- as I said, I have no problem with a
9931
1 bill where we would really focus and find an
2 effective means to go after the sponsor, but I
3 think this bill doesn't do it. I suspect that
4 it is illegal under the reasoning that the court
5 applied, is because we're imposing a pre
6 condition to somebody receiving social services
7 from the state when the state Constitution says
8 that we're obligated to help all needy persons
9 who are in this state.
10 So I think, both on the basis of
11 the underlying theory of this bill and also on
12 the wording of this bill, I think it's a
13 mistake.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
22 the results when tabulated.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
9932
1 the negative on Calendar Number 1292 are
2 Senators Abate, Connor, Espada, Gold, Kruger,
3 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato,
4 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago, Smith, Solomon,
5 Waldon and Senator Leichter. Ayes 43, nays 16.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 Chair recognizes Senator Waldon.
9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. President.
11 I was out of the chamber when
12 Calendar 1296 was before the house. I
13 respectfully request unanimous consent to be
14 recorded in the negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon
17 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
18 Number 1296.
19 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Smith, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr.
9933
1 President.
2 I, too, would request unanimous
3 consent to be recorded in the negative on
4 Calendar Number 1296.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith
7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
8 Number 1296.
9 Senator Volker.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: No, just
11 reading.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
13 recognizes Senator Tully.
14 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
15 President. At the request of the Majority
16 Leader, would you please announce an immediate
17 meeting of the Republican Conference in Room 332
18 and have the Senate stand at ease.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
20 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate
21 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference
22 Room, Room 332, immediate meeting of the
23 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference
9934
1 Room, Room 332.
2 The Senate will stand at ease.
3 (Whereupon at 4:12 p.m., the
4 Senate stood at ease. )
5 ...At 4:4 p.m....
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Senate will come to order for an announcement.
8 Chair recognizes Senator Mendez.
9 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President,
10 there will be an immediate conference of the
11 Minority in the Minority Conference Room, Room
12 314.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
14 will be an immediate conference of the Minority
15 in the Minority Conference Room, Room 314.
16 Immediate meeting of the Minority
17 Conference in the Minority Conference Room,
18 314.
19 Senate will stand at ease.
20 (Whereupon, at 4:14 p.m., the
21 Senate stood at ease until 5:00 p.m.. )
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
23 will come to order.
9935
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
3 recognizes Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: 4968, by Senator
5 Velella.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the title of Calendar Number 124.
8 THE SECRETARY: On page 32,
9 Calendar Number 1284, by Member of the Assembly
10 Dinowitz, Assembly Print 5975, an act to amend
11 the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to service
12 as president of boards of visitors.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
14 please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Velella, an explanation has been asked for of
17 Calendar Number 1284, by Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR VELELLA: This bill would
19 require that -- on boards of visitors, that
20 after two years of service, the presidency would
21 shift to another person to encourage the
22 presidency of a board to move around amongst the
23 members of the board.
9936
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
4 President. Senator Smith had a question on
5 this. I believe she heard the explanation. If
6 not, we'll just ask Senator Velella to go over
7 that real quickly again.
8 SENATOR VELELLA: Do you want me
9 to repeat that, Senator?
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
11 SENATOR SMITH: I have a few
12 questions.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Velella, do you yield to Senator Smith for some
15 questions?
16 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Velella,
20 would you happen to know how the boards of
21 visitors are appointed?
22 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. I believe
23 the Governor appoints them and we confirm them.
9937
1 Is that correct?
2 SENATOR SMITH: That's correct.
3 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you.
4 SENATOR SMITH: Are you also
5 aware that the majority of the boards are not at
6 full capacity?
7 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator,
8 I'm not here to apologize for the negligence of
9 Governor Cuomo; but, certainly, I do realize
10 that they are not at full capacity, yes.
11 SENATOR SMITH: Are you also
12 aware that most of the boards that require five
13 to nine members, that they are down in some
14 cases down to two and three members?
15 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Senator,
16 and I also realize the fact that we now have a
17 competent governor who will put them up to their
18 full complement and allow them to function the
19 way the law intended them to do.
20 SENATOR SMITH: Are you
21 anticipating that we will have any nominees for
22 these boards in the near future?
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Oh, yes,
9938
1 Senator, absolutely. Do you mean me,
2 personally? Do you mean me, personally,
3 Senator?
4 SENATOR SMITH: I said, are you
5 anticipating -- you, personally.
6 SENATOR VELELLA: Me,
7 personally? I don't have any candidates in mind
8 myself, personally, no, but I am sure that
9 amongst this body and amongst the people of this
10 state, amongst the patient advocates, and
11 amongst all the people in the mental hygiene
12 field, we will find competent candidates that
13 the Governor can fulfill his constitutional
14 responsibility and appoint people to the boards,
15 yes.
16 SENATOR SMITH: I, too, agree
17 with you, Senator Velella.
18 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you.
19 SENATOR SMITH: I'm sure that we
20 will in the near future.
21 However, at this point in time -
22 on the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9939
1 Smith on the bill.
2 SENATOR SMITH: The majority of
3 the boards do not even have enough members to
4 constitute a quorum and find it extremely
5 difficult to be able to rotate officers, and I
6 feel that this bill will be an additional burden
7 on the boards of visitors who do not have a full
8 complement and, often, are not even able to have
9 elections; and, therefore, I would urge my
10 colleagues to vote against this bill until the
11 time that these boards reach their full
12 complement, and then I would fully support the
13 bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
22 the results when tabulated.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
9940
1 the negative on Calendar 1284 are Senators
2 Connor, Hoffmann, Kruger, Markowitz, Montgomery,
3 Paterson, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 52. Nays 8.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
8 housekeeping at the desk?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, we
10 have a couple of motions.
11 Chair recognizes Senator Seward.
12 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
13 President. I wish to call up my bill, Print
14 Number 4568, recalled from the Assembly which is
15 now at the desk.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read the title.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1279, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4568, an
20 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Seward.
23 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
9941
1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
2 bill was passed.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
5 (The Secretary called the roll on
6 reconsideration.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is before the house.
10 Senator Seward.
11 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
12 may I now have the third reading of this bill?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes.
14 Secretary will read the title.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1279, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4568, an
17 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
19 a home rule message at the desk.
20 Secretary will read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
9942
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Seward.
10 SENATOR SEWARD: I would just
11 like the record to note that on Calendar Number
12 1299, which passed on a slow roll call earlier
13 today, I was unavoidably out of the chamber on
14 legislative business. I would like the record
15 to indicate that had I been in the chamber, I
16 would have voted yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Seward, the record will reflect that had you
19 been present when the roll call on Calendar
20 Number 1299 was called that you would have voted
21 in the affirmative.
22 Senator Farley.
23 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
9943
1 President. On page 20 -- this is on behalf of
2 Senator Goodman. On page 20, I offer the
3 following amendments to Calendar 849, Senate
4 Print 1610, and I ask that that bill retain its
5 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
7 Amendments to Calendar 849 are received and
8 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the
9 Third Reading Calendar.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
12 will you call up Calendar 1317, by Senator
13 Velella.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the title of Calendar Number 1317.
16 THE SECRETARY: On page 35,
17 Calendar Number 1317, by Senator Velella, Senate
18 Print 5310, an act to amend the Workers'
19 Compensation Law.
20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1317
23 has been asked for by Senator Stachowski.
9944
1 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, this
2 bill will allow the State Insurance Fund and the
3 aggregate trust fund to take bonds and securi
4 ties that they hold and allow a dealer or fund
5 manager to invest them and use them to increase
6 the income of the fund. It's anticipated that
7 by doing this, as other agencies have done, that
8 the fund will increase by $1 million its
9 income. It will receive a steady income and the
10 fund manager will be able to invest those funds.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the
12 Senator yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Velella, do you yield?
15 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, so
19 the reason that the State Insurance Fund asked
20 for this bill was to increase the amount of
21 money that the fund would have -- generate?
22 SENATOR VELELLA: Their
23 explanation to me was, it allows them the
9945
1 opportunity to allow someone to take their
2 securities, invest those securities for them and
3 guarantee them an income. It's done for other
4 agencies, as I understand it, and the bonds, of
5 course, and the securities that are used would
6 be fully collateralized.
7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the
8 Senator yield for another question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
10 continue to yield, Senator Velella?
11 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 continues to yield.
14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: The question
15 that came to us is that if -- would this bill
16 also allow the fund to lend its assets to the
17 state; and, if so, would we find ourselves in a
18 position where the state is borrowing funds from
19 the State Insurance Fund again to possibly
20 balance the budget instead of using that money
21 to pay Workmen's Compensation claims, which is
22 what happened in the past?
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. Senator,
9946
1 I hope those days are behind us. I think that
2 was a mistake on the part of all of us to do
3 that; and this bill, as I understand it and as I
4 read it, would require anyone who is taking
5 those securities for investment purposes to pay
6 a fee to the State Insurance Fund and guarantee
7 the income to it.
8 The question of whether or not
9 the amount of a negotiated fee might be too high
10 or too low would be something, I guess, that
11 would be subject to the prudent man or the
12 reasonable man test in a person who is a
13 fiduciary being responsible for what they do
14 with the funds entrusted to them, but I do not
15 believe under any stretch of the imagination
16 that this would allow us to raid the funds
17 again.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
19 President, if the Senator would yield for one
20 last question?
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 continues to yield.
9947
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: The other
2 question we had was that, do we know if the
3 other house is planning on passing this bill?
4 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator. I
5 believe that it is a bill that they are
6 supporting, but I am not 100 percent sure. I
7 couldn't make a representation to you that they
8 are.
9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you
10 very much.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
19 the results when tabulated.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 Senator Stavisky.
9948
1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
2 without objection, I should like to be recorded
3 in the negative on Calendar 1292 and 1296.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 objection and hearing no objections, Senator
6 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on
7 Calendar Number 1292 and Calendar Number 1296.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 would you call up Calendar Number 1294, Senate
11 2829.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the title of Calendar Number 1294.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On page
15 33, Calendar Number 1294, by Senator Skelos,
16 Senate Print 2829, an act to amend the General
17 Obligations Law, in relation to compensation for
18 injury or damage.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Skelos, an explanation has been asked for.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 this bill amends the General Obligations Law to
23 provide that an injured police officer -
9949
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
2 President. I'm sorry, Senator.
3 Senator, would it be permissible
4 to lay this aside just for a moment for Senator
5 Leichter? He is the one that wants to ask you a
6 question on it.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Lay the
8 bill aside temporarily.
9 Would you call up Senator
10 Seward's bill, Calendar Number 1305, please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay
12 Calendar Number 1294 aside.
13 Secretary will read the title to
14 Calendar Number 1305.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4513A, an
17 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
18 Fire Prevention and Building Code standards.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9950
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Is Senator
8 Leichter in the chambers?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Could we
11 go to the -
12 Mr. President. Will you please
13 call up Senator Hannon's bill, Calendar Number
14 1285.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read the title of Calendar Number 1285.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A, an
19 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
20 enacting the engineers' and architects' good
21 Samaritan act.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9951
1 Hannon, an explanation has been called for by
2 Senator Paterson on Calendar Number 1205 -
3 Calendar Number 1285, excuse me.
4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
5 President. This proposal would put into statute
6 an engineers' and architects' good Samaritan
7 act. The idea would be to exempt engineers and
8 architects from liability when they've rendered
9 their services voluntarily during or right after
10 catastrophic natural events. It would be
11 professional engineers or architects who are
12 already obligated by their codes to do something
13 like this but have been holding back because of
14 the liability problems.
15 So it's only when such services
16 are rendered voluntarily would they get this
17 immunity from ordinary liability. There still
18 would be, in effect, provisions for liability in
19 the event that there would be any type of gross
20 negligence, wanton or skillful or intentional
21 misconduct, and there would be a limitation of
22 90 days to the question of when the catastrophe
23 occurred.
9952
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect January 1.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 Senator Skelos.
12 Senator Stavisky, why do you
13 rise?
14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
15 I neglected to ask for unanimous approval to be
16 recorded in the negative on Calendar 993.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Stavisky, Calendar Number 993 has not passed as
19 of this moment.
20 Senator Solomon, why do you
21 rise?
22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President,
23 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in
9953
1 the negative on Calendar 1284.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
3 objection and hearing no objection, Senator
4 Solomon will be recorded in the negative on
5 Calendar Number 1284.
6 Senator Abate.
7 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, I also ask
8 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
9 on Calendar Number 1284.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection and hearing no objection, Senator
12 Abate will be recorded in the negative on
13 Calendar Number 1284.
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 at this time, could we take up Supplemental
17 Calendar Number 1, noncontroversial.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the noncontroversial calendar, the
20 calendar being Senate Supplemental Calendar
21 Number 1 for Wednesday, June 14, 1995.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1295, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 1059, an
9954
1 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey
2 its interest in certain real property acquired
3 by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of
4 Queens.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
6 no home rule message at the desk. The bill will
7 be laid aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1322, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2458A.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside at the request of the sponsor.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1323, by Senator Dollinger, Senate Print 2949A,
15 an act validating the conversion of Roselawn
16 Refuse and Garbage District into the town of
17 Brighton, Monroe County.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
9955
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 whose bill was that?
8 (Laughter.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's not
10 out of the house quite yet, Senator Skelos.
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR SKELOS: No, no. No
13 questions. No questions. No explanation
14 needed.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will continue to call the noncontroversial
17 calendar.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1324, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3006A, an
20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
21 relation to the presence of counsel.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9956
1 bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1325, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3236, an
4 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
5 relation to forfeiture of benefits.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1326, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3493A, an
18 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to
19 deputy commander of the New York Army National
20 Guard.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
22 will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9957
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1327, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3631A.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1328, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3839A, an
15 act to amend the General Municipal Law -
16 General Business Law, in relation to false price
17 comparisons.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1329, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3905A, an
22 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure
23 Act and Chapter 402 of the Laws of 1994.
9958
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1330, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4253, an
5 act to amend the Public Health Law and the
6 Education Law, in relation to professional
7 misconduct.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1331, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4329A, an
20 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
21 disqualification of life insurance
22 beneficiaries.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
9959
1 will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1332, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4529A, an
12 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
13 in relation to the harvest and shipment of
14 shellfish.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
18 act shall take effect on the first day of
19 September.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
9960
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1333, by Senator Volker.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815, an
10 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
11 the definition of small groups.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1335, by Senator Jones, Senate Print 4918, an
17 act to reclassify Dorothy L. Barnatones as a
18 Tier I member of the New York State and local
19 employees retirement system.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
9961
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1336, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4924, an
9 act authorizing the County of Monroe to
10 participate in a cooperative corporation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
12 a home rule message at the desk.
13 Secretary will read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9962
1 1337, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4932A, an
2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
3 the restoration and display of New York State's
4 military battle flags.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1338, by Senator Connor, Senate Print 5001, an
9 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey
10 its interest in certain real property acquired
11 by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of
12 Brooklyn.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 no home rule message at the desk. The bill will
15 be laid aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1339, by Senator Nanula, Senate Print 1512, an
18 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation
19 to the sale of bonds.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
21 home rule message at the desk.
22 Secretary will read the last
23 section.
9963
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1340, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5085, an act
11 in relation to authorizing the village of Penn
12 Yan, Yates County, to issue serial bonds.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 a home rule message at the desk.
15 Secretary will read the last
16 section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9964
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese
3 moves to discharge from the Committee on
4 Judiciary Assembly Bill Number 4958 and
5 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number
6 1341.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
8 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read
9 the title.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1342, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5292, an act
17 to amend the Limited Liability Company Law and
18 the Partnership Law, in relation to certain
19 professional services.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
23 act shall take effect 30 days after it shall
9965
1 have become law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1343, by Senator Maltese.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is high. Lay the bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1344, by Senator Maltese.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is high. Lay the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1345, by Senator Levy.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is high. Lay the bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1346, by Senator Leibell.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is high. Lay the bill aside.
9966
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1347, by the Senate Committee on Rules.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is high. Lay the bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1348, by Senator Marchi.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is high. Lay the bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo
10 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
11 Assembly Bill Number 3851A and substitute it for
12 the identical Calendar Number 1349.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
14 Substitution is ordered.
15 Secretary will read the title.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1349, by Member of the Assembly Polonetsky,
18 Assembly Print 3851A, an act to amend the
19 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to the
20 enforcement of certain kosher food laws.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
22 will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9967
1 act shall take effect on the first day of
2 November.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1350, by Senator Johnson.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is high. Lay the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1351, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5377, an
15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
16 relation to the powers of the United States Park
17 Police.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
9968
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
3 the results when tabulated.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 1.
5 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1352, by Senator Holland.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is high. Lay the bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman
11 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
12 Assembly Bill Number 8137 and substitute it for
13 the identical Calendar Number 1353.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
15 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read
16 the title.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1353, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
19 Assembly Print 8137, an act to amend the Real
20 Property Tax Law, in relation to the
21 determination of adjusted base proportions.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9969
1 is there a message at the desk?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
3 a message of necessity at the desk, Senator
4 Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 motion is to accept the message of necessity.
8 All in favor, signify by saying
9 aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 Opposed, nay.
12 (There was no response.)
13 The message is accepted.
14 Secretary will read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
9970
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1354, by Senator Maziarz.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is high. Lay the bill aside.
5 Senator Skelos, that completes
6 the noncontroversial reading of Supplemental
7 Calendar Number 1.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 if we could return to the regular calendar,
10 number 1294, I believe Senator Leichter has some
11 questions to ask of me.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the title of Calendar Number 1294, by
14 Senator Skelos.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an
17 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in
18 relation to compensation for injury or damage.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Leichter.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
22 I first thank Senator Skelos for holding the
23 bill until I came back into the chamber, and I
9971
1 did want to ask him a couple of questions, if
2 you would yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Skelos, do you yield?
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 yields.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: I am having
9 some problem in understanding the scope of this
10 bill, and I talked to some lobbyists for the
11 bill, and they may have confused me even more.
12 As I understand it now, in the
13 state of New York, police officers and other
14 uniform services, and so on, and in most
15 localities, I assume, all employees are covered
16 by Workmen's Compensation. Is that correct?
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Correct.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, you are
19 not saying by this bill that irrespective of the
20 Workmen's Compensation Laws that they can also
21 sue the municipalities, are you?
22 SENATOR SKELOS: What we're
23 saying in this legislation is, like any other
9972
1 municipal worker, they have the right to sue
2 somebody, for example, negligence -- policemen
3 and firemen -- which they do have the right
4 now. Policemen and firemen are going to have
5 that same right. That's all this bill does.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, if you
7 would be so good as to continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Skelos, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 continues to yield.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: So in those
15 instances where they are covered by Workmen's
16 Compensation, you are not giving them any
17 additional rights?
18 SENATOR SKELOS: No, we are not.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand
20 the city of New York is a somewhat special
21 situation, because the city of New York has, in
22 some respects, opted out of Workmen's
23 Compensation. Is that correct?
9973
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe they
2 are self-insured, and they made that decision.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. There
4 was a decision by the Court of Appeals in the
5 Cooper case which has been interpreted by
6 various other courts, and as I understood it
7 from the representatives of the police and the
8 firemen is that they are now in a situation
9 where they can get neither Workmen's
10 Compensation nor have the right to sue?
11 SENATOR SKELOS: They are
12 correct.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. And,
14 all that your bill seeks to do is, in a sense,
15 restore the status quo before Cooper and give
16 them the rights that they had before, either
17 under Workers' Compensation or if the City
18 prefers to proceed by being self-insured or do
19 it in ways other than Workers' Compensation that
20 they would have the right to sue.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Nobody explains
22 a bill better than you, Senator Leichter.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I thank you.
9974
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Ask the members
13 if their bills are called that they be in the
14 chambers so we can debate the bill.
15 Mr. President, at this time, will
16 you call up Senator Saland's bill, Calendar
17 Number 937.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the title of Calendar Number 937.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4009A, an
22 act to amend the Tax Law and others, in relation
23 to enacting the Omnibus Mandate Relief Act.
9975
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Saland, an explanation has been asked for by
6 Senator Paterson on Calendar Number 937.
7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 Mr. President, this is, as the
10 name implies, an omnibus mandate relief bill.
11 It's intended to, in effect, remove the burden
12 of unfunded mandates currently imposed upon so
13 many of our local and county governments. The
14 intention here is not only to remove those
15 unfunded mandates but to save somewhere in the
16 area of $1.5 billion which are currently being
17 spent by those school districts -- by those
18 local municipalities which will translate to, we
19 believe, tax relief to those very same
20 localities.
21 There are a number of components
22 to this particular bill. There are six major
23 components. These components would be to reduce
9976
1 local fiscal burdens, permit localities greater
2 administrative flexibility, reduce the burden of
3 state regulations, eliminate unnecessary state
4 reporting and approval requirements, reform
5 municipal liability, and encourage local
6 consolidation and cooperation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Paterson.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
10 if Senator Saland would yield for about 250
11 questions.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Saland, do you yield?
14 SENATOR SALAND: Only if he
15 promises to let me catch my breath on occasion.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 Obviously, this is a package of
21 legislation that certainly gives an opportunity
22 for local governments and school districts and
23 the like to recoup, and I want to go through
9977
1 some of the sections, Senator, and just get a
2 reflection from you as to what caused you to do
3 this because there, frankly, are a few things
4 that I find a little disturbing.
5 For instance, in Section 4, I see
6 that you exempt volunteer fire fighters from the
7 OSHA requirements with respect to the use of the
8 gear and safety procedures. It would seem to me
9 that those volunteers who give of their own time
10 to be volunteer fire fighters should be properly
11 prepared and properly equipped to do the job,
12 and it could be a serious health and safety
13 hazard for them to actually forfeit that
14 opportunity.
15 So I wanted to know, to commence
16 the discussion, why you decided to include
17 this.
18 SENATOR SALAND: That provision,
19 in effect, reflects a bill that has been passed,
20 I believe, as introduced by Senator Cook in
21 prior sessions, passed by this house and, I
22 believe, passed overwhelmingly, and what it does
23 is it represents, I believe, the overwhelming
9978
1 sentiment of volunteer fire companies and fire
2 fighters who feel that the requirements as
3 imposed upon them by the OSHA regulations have
4 been burdensome, at times bordering on the
5 picayune, and many of them feel that, somehow or
6 other, they have become the more singular
7 targets for the zealousness of the OSHA people.
8 I would think that you would find
9 considerable support coming from the volunteer
10 fire fighters for the removal of this particular
11 provision. These are people who live with risk,
12 are very good at dealing with risk, and they
13 would be among the last people in the world not
14 to proceed carefully and make sure that their
15 gear and all their other equipment wasn't ready
16 to meet the types of crises that they have to
17 deal with.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, thank
21 you for enlightening me, but I still don't
22 understand, even with their consent, how are
23 they supposed to be trained?
9979
1 These are safety procedures.
2 Obviously, we're talking about prospective
3 situations that incur a lot of life-threatening
4 and dangerous hazards, and what I'm saying is,
5 what is the standard that will -- the volunteers
6 would conform -- with which they would conform?
7 Because, as you know, in these kind of
8 situations, just civilians or just individuals
9 who might care may have all good intentions but
10 may actually take a dangerous situation and make
11 it worse.
12 We honored today some fire
13 fighters, police and EMS workers from New York
14 who went to Oklahoma City. They, of course,
15 were highly-trained, but you could drop them in
16 the middle of Oklahoma City, where they don't
17 even know where they are, and they can do the
18 outstanding job that they demonstrated by the
19 results of their effort because of their train
20 ing. Now, they are, of course, professionals,
21 and I use it only analogous to the point that
22 the training relates directly to how much care
23 they can give and how much support they can
9980
1 offer, because of the fact that normally they
2 are not fire fighters.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Paterson, would you suffer an interruption?
5 Senator Cook, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, at
7 some point, if I might just speak to this
8 particular point, if the two Senators would
9 permit me?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson, would you like Senator Cook to speak
12 to this particular point at this time?
13 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm always
14 delighted to have Senator Cook's participation.
15 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
16 only because I had been involved in this issue
17 for some time, and this happens to be very high
18 -- in fact, it may well be the top issue for
19 the volunteer firemen to get this OSHA standard
20 released.
21 I'll indicate that the way it
22 happened, incidentally, was that some years ago
23 the Labor Commissioner of the state simply
9981
1 arbitrarily, out of the blue, redefined
2 volunteer fire personnel as being public
3 employees. They never previously had been
4 covered by OSHA until this decision by the
5 Commissioner to include them.
6 Volunteer fire personnel have to
7 go through their own training procedures. There
8 are courses that are required before they can
9 actually participate in fighting fires. In
10 fact, their own liability -- the companies' own
11 liability policies usually have additional
12 requirements that they have to do.
13 The problem they have with the
14 OSHA standards is multiple, one being it covers
15 a lot of expensive equipment. Small volunteer
16 companies find it very expensive to replace
17 equipment every two or three years just because
18 the standard changes. In fact, it may be
19 equipment that they have only used one or two
20 times because they don't have all that many fire
21 calls, and yet they have to keep changing the
22 equipment. They have to maintain all these
23 files.
9982
1 They don't have any clerical
2 personnel to keep the files, and yet people come
3 in and inspect the files.
4 I have one fire company that was
5 fined because they didn't have medical files on
6 their people, and it wasn't that they hadn't
7 done -- had the physical exams, but it was that
8 the doctor had the files in his office and not
9 in the fire company office where they decided
10 they were going to be.
11 So it's simply that volunteers,
12 who don't have full-time personnel to do all of
13 the things that a regular municipal employer
14 would be doing as a matter of course, find that
15 having to comply with OSHA regulations really is
16 virtually impossible and is extremely expensive.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
20 much, Senator Cook.
21 I would just add to what I said
22 by saying it's actually the situations that we
23 don't forecast and the extraordinary circum
9983
1 stances in which I think we would most need the
2 training, but I do understand what Senator Cook
3 is saying, and I'm glad that he brought it up.
4 If Senator Saland would continue
5 to yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Saland, do you continue to yield?
8 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 continues to yield.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
13 Saland, in Section 5, I believe, of the omnibus
14 bill, the state, as you know, has a duty to
15 protect its workers and its citizens; and there
16 seems to be through a new interpretation of what
17 an in-plant procedure would actually be, in a
18 sense, an opportunity for what we feel would be
19 greater exposure to workers and visitors to
20 asbestos because of a relaxation or reduction in
21 the standard of asbestos removal; and so, at
22 this point, particularly where we in New York
23 City suffered a tremendous penalty of having the
9984
1 school year actually delayed three weeks because
2 of those buildings, where asbestos levels were
3 at a point that it seemed to be damaging to
4 children, it just raised my eyebrow when I saw
5 that in this particular bill.
6 I was wondering if you would
7 explain to us why you arrived at a decision to
8 create that reduction?
9 SENATOR SALAND: I don't think -
10 although I can't speak with any particular
11 knowledge about what occurred in the City, I
12 believe that what occurred in the City, these
13 asbestos conditions were internal conditions,
14 things that occurred within buildings. This
15 deals with roofs.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: These are
17 municipal roofing projects, and I didn't really
18 mean to compare them, Senator Saland, and so I
19 just want to alleviate your concern that I
20 would.
21 What I'm just trying to say is
22 that just the issue of the failure to remove or
23 what might be a broader determination that would
9985
1 prevent removal was what concerned me.
2 SENATOR SALAND: Let me suggest
3 to you that this is not an effort to remove from
4 the ambit of regulation the requirements that
5 people who perform asbestos removal or asbestos
6 removal from roofs are not, in fact, regulated.
7 These very same people who you and I talked
8 about a bit earlier with regard to volunteer
9 firemen are people whom we would have regulate
10 the roofer who would be removing asbestos, as
11 are currently regulated in the private sector
12 and this would be the infamous OSHA.
13 We're merely saying that the
14 current labor regulations that require a
15 considerable amount of expenditure, a
16 considerable amount of additional and, to many,
17 burdensome requirements that the private sector
18 does not have to endure should very similarly
19 not be imposed on municipalities. It is
20 estimated that between municipalities and school
21 districts that, conservatively, this would mean
22 somewhere in the area of a $175 million
23 savings. I have been advised by people
9986
1 representing roofing contractors that they
2 believe that number could be well in excess of
3 $400 million.
4 We certainly do not believe that
5 we are in any way jeopardizing the health of any
6 students or any employees. Again, we are
7 working only here in this section on removing
8 asbestos from the roofs of buildings.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
10 Senator. Now that we know how roofing
11 contractors feel, I just want you to know that
12 District Council 37 and the Civil Service
13 Employees Association are virulently opposed to
14 this inclusion in the omnibus package, and their
15 feeling is that the state standard that we have
16 previously had is a lot stricter than what
17 would, I guess, be the federal standard, and
18 that this would really contradict and serve as a
19 departure from that in the area of asbestos
20 removal, which has recently become a serious
21 issue because it really affects a lot more
22 buildings and roofs and edifices than we would
23 have first projected, but it's now, of course,
9987
1 making it more difficult for contractors and
2 developers, and we understand that, but the
3 point is, that when we prioritize this, the
4 safety of workers and the safety of visitors are
5 really a priority; and it's just -- and as I
6 would see it where we in the state previously
7 tightened what would have been the federal
8 regulations to what we would have wanted them to
9 be, aren't we now going in the opposite
10 direction by adopting this as part of your
11 bill?
12 SENATOR SALAND: I think we can
13 only talk in relative terms, Senator Paterson.
14 I don't think that, in fact, we are jeopardizing
15 anybody's health or well being. The reality is,
16 these standards have been used, the standards
17 that we are proposing to use, the OSHA
18 standards, certainly by anybody's recognition
19 not diluted or -- nor is OSHA renowned as some
20 how or other being -- being wanton or -- or
21 somehow or other lacking in zeal when it comes
22 to enforcing their regulations.
23 These are the very same
9988
1 regulations that the vast majority of roofing
2 jobs in this state, commercial roofing jobs, are
3 performed under. There are no horror stories
4 associated with those roofing jobs, no health
5 stories associated with those roofing jobs, to
6 show that somehow or other the public is being
7 put at risk.
8 What we have here is something
9 that would seem would be sensible, doesn't put
10 anybody at risk, and affords an enormous
11 savings, and I think this is one of these
12 instances, although I can't say with absolute
13 certainty, that New York has placed itself at
14 such a standard, such a relatively high
15 standard, as to be beyond the realm of anything
16 realistic and, certainly, far above what's
17 occurring all over our own state in non
18 municipal situations and probably throughout
19 most of the country.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, if
23 you will continue to yield?
9989
1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 continues to yield.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Do we, in
6 fact, have any air monitoring requirements as
7 part of the new regulations that you will be
8 proposing?
9 SENATOR SALAND: I believe that
10 the OSHA -- I could not tell you exactly what
11 they are, but I believe the OSHA requirements in
12 addition to whatever EPA requirements may
13 currently exist require some air monitoring. I
14 could not tell you what the measurements are,
15 though, Senator.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
19 Senator. Moving to Section 24 of the omnibus
20 bill and further subsections, what you are doing
21 here is eliminating unfunded mandates on
22 localities of a certain size or approximating a
23 certain amount of money.
9990
1 My question to you relates to our
2 duty, right here, as legislators. I would have
3 thought that this is something that we would be
4 in a sense codifying into law and restricting
5 ourselves from implementing later certain pieces
6 of legislation that would now be barred by the
7 enactment of this law and summarily relieving
8 ourselves of many responsibilities.
9 Why do you want to take that
10 power away from the Legislature?
11 SENATOR SALAND: I hate to make
12 you do this again, Senator, but I was looking
13 for Section 24 as you were speaking, and I
14 didn't get your comments in their entirety.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: I guess, just
16 to simplify it, your rationale for the unfunded
17 mandates provision.
18 SENATOR SALAND: In Section 24?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, and other
20 sections that follow.
21 SENATOR SALAND: My rationale
22 basically is I think rather elementary. I don't
23 think that we should be in the business of
9991
1 attempting to impose mandates when we are not
2 providing the funding; and we've had,
3 unfortunately, a history of having done that;
4 and in a rather extended and omnibus fashion,
5 what we're trying to accomplish with this bill
6 is to undo a number of those mandates that we
7 have imposed. It certainly is a history that
8 leaves a lot to be desired, and we feel that
9 this bill can be a cornerstone of changing what
10 have been, unfortunately, far too prevalent of a
11 practice for far too long.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
15 if the Senator will continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 continues to yield.
18 SENATOR SALAND: Are you
19 keeping -- excuse me, Senator Paterson. Are you
20 keeping count? Are we approaching 250 yet?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're at
22 19.
23 SENATOR SALAND: The President is
9992
1 keeping count.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're at
3 19.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
5 But, Senator, my problem with
6 this is that this is really a flat prohibition
7 that you are actually proposing here. In other
8 words -- well, it's really not a flat
9 prohibition. I will correct myself. You do
10 have it limited to over $1 million and where the
11 population is over 10,000. I'm saying that that
12 is a pretty expansive margin that you have left;
13 and to be perfectly honest with you, there have
14 been a lot pieces of legislation that have gone
15 through here in a year where we are -- at least
16 our new governor is talking about his objection
17 to unfunded mandates, and I can understand that
18 and I can understand yours, but I have seen a
19 number of pieces of legislation that have gone
20 through this house that would actually be in
21 violation of what you are proposing.
22 As long as we're clear on what
23 we're actually doing, I'm just asking you if you
9993
1 think that that's actually the way to go, when
2 it's actually the Legislature and our elected
3 duty that I thought would have superceded one
4 flat prohibition that would guide us through the
5 rest of time when it comes to what we term
6 unfunded mandates.
7 SENATOR SALAND: I've struggled
8 to find the exact language to which you are
9 referring; but, nonetheless, let me say that I'm
10 hoping that this really would amount to, in
11 effect, a watershed; that this, in effect, would
12 chart a new course for us, one that I would
13 think would be certainly well received and well
14 appreciated by local government and certainly
15 would set a standard that I think would speak
16 well of us, if, in fact, we could begin the trip
17 down that path.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
19 want to apologize to you. It really was $10,000
20 per municipality not to exceed a total of $1
21 million for all municipalities. That's what
22 your bill reads.
23 And, my final question on this
9994
1 subject is just how are we going to keep up with
2 other local governments around the country and
3 what other municipalities are doing and work
4 around what you are trying to achieve in this
5 legislation at the same time?
6 SENATOR SALAND: I believe,
7 although it's not a majority position, that a
8 number of states have adopted mandate relief
9 type proposals. This proposal, basically, deals
10 with -- primarily with various mandates that are
11 currently on the books that we're endeavoring
12 to, in effect, remove. There certainly is the
13 ability to deal with issues prospectively, as
14 you have more than implied.
15 I would like to join that ten to
16 twelve states that have adopted mandate relief
17 as, sort of their bylaw, so to speak; and I
18 believe, again, our respective constituencies,
19 whether they be urban, suburban, or rural, would
20 welcome that type of mandate relief and
21 certainly would appreciate having that type of
22 atmosphere in which to go forward.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9995
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, how
3 are you holding up?
4 SENATOR SALAND: I would assume
5 the President would tell us we're somewhere in
6 the 20s right now.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
9 Saland, I want to turn your attention to Section
10 32 of the legislation, and I guess we can cover
11 these together, so, Mr. President, you can put
12 about 50 points on this one.
13 The section that ascribes to
14 those individuals who are on probation the duty
15 to pay for their parole visits, assuming that
16 they have the financial means to pay, and also
17 for those nonindigent inmates the cost of
18 medical services and food.
19 Now, we took this up in a bill
20 earlier that was introduced in the session.
21 I'll try not to take much time on it. First of
22 all, how much money do you think the state can
23 save through the -- through implementing this
9996
1 procedure, and I also want to know who is going
2 to monitor it? Who determines who is
3 nonindigent?
4 SENATOR SALAND: If I recollect,
5 this bill was a bill, which -- there was a bill
6 introduced comparable to this portion of our
7 omnibus bill by, I believe, Senator Skelos. I
8 don't recall and do not have in my file the
9 amount of money attributed to the savings
10 associated with this particular section. At one
11 time, I did have in this file a breakdown by
12 section. Unfortunately, in looking for it
13 before we started the debate, I could not find
14 it. I would assume that indigency would be
15 determined in the same fashion as might
16 currently be determined by, in effect,
17 documentation that would be provided to either
18 the Probation Department or to an official
19 designated by that department.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Then I'll tell
23 you what I'll do, Senator. I will move on to
9997
1 another question because we have discussed this
2 on the record earlier this session, and it
3 appears that you don't have the material you
4 would actually need, so I would ask you to turn
5 your attention to Section 92. Now, you can take
6 your winnings home, Senator, like they did on
7 "21" or you can go for another question.
8 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry,
9 Senator, I didn't hear what you said.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, no, I'm
11 going to ask you about Section 92, which allows
12 for coroners the transport of a corpse even
13 though they are not physicians, and what
14 disturbs me about this is that they may not be
15 physicians; they may be able to transport
16 corpses, but they also may not be trained to do
17 so.
18 How are we going to determine
19 whether a coroner has actually achieved in the
20 field to the extent of rising to the level that
21 they might be able to transport corpses, which
22 is obviously something that takes within it a
23 great deal of responsibility?
9998
1 SENATOR SALAND: I think the
2 assumption underlying this bill is that coroners
3 certainly are -- either by way of training or by
4 way of practice, certainly adept at
5 accomplishing that very thing. We have county
6 coroners in our counties, certainly -- perhaps
7 don't have the type of forensic laboratories and
8 the like that you will find in some of your
9 larger municipalities or larger counties, but
10 these ladies or gentlemen are generally adept at
11 what they're doing, have been trained in what
12 they're doing and are bound to be generally
13 reliable.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, if
15 you will continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Saland, do you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
19 President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 continues to yield.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: I would be
23 curious to know what prosecutors have felt about
9999
1 this, because what is essential to the criminal
2 prosecution in many situations is the validity
3 of the evidence and as we have seen and read
4 about, particularly recently in some highly
5 profiled cases, it is the handling of evidence
6 and the possibility often for the defense to
7 expose that, even when often the defense has
8 nothing else to hang their hats on, the fact
9 that the presentation of the evidence,
10 particularly in -- where there has been a
11 fatality, and particularly in murder cases, is
12 essential for the physician to provide.
13 It is beyond the scope of what
14 the coroner's role usually is in the actual
15 investigation; and so I'm asking you, do you
16 think that this is something that possibly can
17 impede a criminal prosecution; and have you
18 received any information from any of the
19 district attorneys' associations as to what they
20 feel about this?
21 SENATOR SALAND: No, Senator, I
22 certainly share your concerns with regard to
23 maintaining the chain of evidence and certainly
10000
1 avoiding the polluting of that evidence.
2 What is being done here is -- and
3 I have received nothing from any district
4 attorney or district attorneys' organization
5 expressing any concern about these provisions;
6 and what these provisions do, basically, is try
7 and deal with some rather unique situations.
8 The bill talks in terms of where it would be -
9 permitting the removal would be impossible or
10 impractical to at once notify a designated
11 coroner's physician to go to the place where the
12 body is, and then goes on to provide further
13 limitations on that particular responsibility.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
17 Senator Saland, I just kind of answer that to
18 say that I think that it would probably be
19 better served if there were some allowance in
20 your legislation for what might be termed highly
21 suspicious fatalities because in the normal
22 course of events, you are probably right, but in
23 these situations, I think we've got to have a
10001
1 higher standard of investigation.
2 Finally, Senator Saland, Sections
3 96 and, I believe, 98, involving the opportunity
4 for localities to, with public notice -- and I
5 must add that you did include in the legislation
6 that there must be notification -- the removal
7 of signs from roadways and also the creation of
8 maintenance for the roadways would be somewhat
9 reduced if the locality feels that it actually
10 should.
11 Do you think that this is
12 applying somewhat of a subjective standard? For
13 people who travel all over the state and are
14 using a lot of these roadways, we are now
15 subjecting ourselves to the safety standards
16 that often might be the whims of individuals in
17 a particular area and, in a sense, decreasing
18 highway safety in toto around the state.
19 SENATOR SALAND: I believe that
20 there are standards that are contained in here.
21 We're talking basically about rural counties and
22 rural towns. The definition of rural counties
23 and rural towns is provided. A rural county
10002
1 would be one having a population of less than
2 200,000. A rural town is defined as having
3 fewer than 150 persons per square mile.
4 And, for instance, a low volume
5 road is defined as a road, or a portion thereof,
6 located in a rural county or town which has an
7 average daily traffic count of less than 400
8 motor vehicles. The intent here, again, is to
9 try and relieve the burden on our smaller
10 communities, our smaller counties and towns in a
11 fashion that provides them some degree of
12 flexibility and yet permits that flexibility in
13 those areas where the roads are by definition
14 low volume.
15 For those of us who represent
16 rural communities, as many of us in this house
17 do, this is something, I believe, that affords
18 not only flexibility but, certainly, relief in
19 the form of real property tax relief to these
20 communities, and I don't believe it jeopardizes
21 anybody's safety or well-being.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson.
10003
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
2 understand your answer, but I'm wondering if you
3 understand my concern, that people traveling
4 through these particular areas aren't really
5 familiar with what may be a minimum maintenance
6 road, and I would think that in a court case if
7 a person is actually able to aver that at trial
8 that they didn't know what a minimum maintenance
9 road is, that the municipality may open itself
10 up to more lawsuits as a result of the fact that
11 the court might rule that it was not within a
12 reasonable person's contemplation that they were
13 in a circumstance where there was a higher risk
14 than the average one traveling on a road; and
15 I'm just saying, do you think it's worth it to
16 do that and subject what these localities who
17 may think that they are acting -- that they are
18 getting an advantage from this legislation and
19 may wind up with a few lawsuits that will
20 certainly compromise that point of view if the
21 plaintiff prevails?
22 SENATOR SALAND: If I can, I call
23 your attention to Section 331(f) -- I'm sorry -
10004
1 331(e), which deals with the signing
2 requirement, and it reads as follows: "The
3 Department shall design a minimum road sign to
4 be posted on the minimum maintenance road in
5 accordance with this article. Such sign shall
6 notify and advise motorists of the need to
7 exercise caution when traveling such roads and
8 shall conform to the Manual of Uniform Traffic
9 Control Devices. Properly posted signs shall be
10 prima facie evidence that adequate notice of a
11 minimum maintenance road designation has been
12 given to the public."
13 So I think there would be both
14 notice and, certainly, as indicated in the
15 language, at least prima facie evidence of
16 adequate notice.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Senator,
20 if you were Karnak and I were Ed McMahon, "I
21 hold in my hand the last question."
22 SENATOR SALAND: You've really
23 fooled me, because I thought the last one was
10005
1 the last one.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: And this is
3 going to impose on you the duty to explain it to
4 me because I don't understand it. It relates to
5 Section 131 of the bill, and I'm going to give
6 you what I understand from it, and then I would
7 like you to correct me.
8 Municipalities who would take
9 ownership of property would, as long as they
10 don't manage it, be shielded from the lawsuit if
11 there's environmental spills or some kind of
12 solid waste that is deemed to be contaminated;
13 so, in other words, the municipality -- is what
14 you are saying that the municipality will not be
15 liable if the municipality takes ownership but
16 does not manage the property?
17 SENATOR SALAND: There are
18 circumstances, whether it be, for instance,
19 taking over a property for delinquent taxes,
20 where a municipality will, in fact, find itself
21 with a piece of property that may be one in
22 which there are hazardous substances or
23 hazardous wastes.
10006
1 What we're saying is we're doing
2 nothing to impair the issue of liability as it
3 is currently handled with regard to anybody who
4 might be in that chain of title except for that
5 municipality that, in effect, becomes the owner
6 and has done nothing to either foster the
7 condition or done anything to aggravate the
8 condition.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: What
10 immediately comes to mind, Senator, is that the
11 burden of proof now is vested in the plaintiff
12 because short of acting against the municipal
13 ity, now the plaintiff has to find whoever the
14 violator is and then bring civil suit against
15 them, whereas, if the plaintiff can sue the
16 municipality, the municipality can now
17 interplead and, in a sense, annex whoever may
18 have actually been responsible.
19 So as I see it, this puts the
20 victim of the hazardous waste in the precarious
21 position of having to go and seek among several
22 suspects or even find among maybe a known entity
23 that can't be located, whoever it is that
10007
1 damaged the property; and between the plaintiff
2 and the municipality, I suggest that it is the
3 latter who would have more information and
4 greater authority to actually involve the third
5 party who may actually be at fault.
6 SENATOR SALAND: Let me provide
7 you, if I might, with the converse of that.
8 I'm not quite sure that the
9 plaintiff might not be able to adequately
10 through their own counsel or through their own
11 investigation determine who the real parties in
12 interest were.
13 What we're doing here is saying
14 that the municipality which has been basically a
15 passive player in getting involved with this
16 piece of property should not become a deep
17 pocket simply because they happen to be the
18 owner of record and are a municipality and are
19 just sitting out there sort of like a fat cat.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's
21 actually a good answer and a thoughtful answer,
22 Senator, but I've got to ask you this question,
23 which is -- I'm over my question allotment. I'm
10008
1 on 251 now, but I thought you would yield and
2 give me one last question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you
4 yield to one last question, Senator Saland?
5 SENATOR SALAND: Is this what
6 Johnny Carson did, like this (indicating)?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. In fact,
8 what I may do is, I will give you the answer and
9 then you give me the question.
10 Senator, what is to prevent the
11 municipality from going out and hiring a
12 management company that will now manage the
13 property and will, in a sense, serve as the
14 shield for the municipality from suit?
15 Now, you mentioned liens, but I
16 don't see in your legislation any way that the
17 plaintiff can bring a lien. All I see is that
18 if the municipality attains ownership, there
19 will be actually no way for the plaintiff to
20 actually prevail in any kind of a lawsuit
21 because you set up what might be termed a
22 municipal shield by creating these management
23 companies who really in a lot of ways might be
10009
1 able to fritter away the actual suit to the
2 point that the plaintiff can't recover.
3 So what I'm asking you is why did
4 you not include a method in which, in those
5 situations where the municipality is actually
6 responsible, there can be an attachment between
7 the management company and the actual owner?
8 SENATOR SALAND: Well, I have no
9 recollection of having talked in terms of liens,
10 and what we're again doing here is attempting
11 to, in all candor, shield a municipality from
12 being, simply because of the very nature of it
13 being a municipality, the proverbial deep
14 pocket. To the extent that the municipality or
15 its agents may somehow or other actively
16 contribute to whatever environmental problem
17 exists at this particular parcel, I would say
18 there would be a question of fact that certainly
19 could hold them as a party in interest in
20 whatever litigation might be brought on.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Mr.
22 President, I would like you to thank Senator
23 Saland for his tireless and continuing efforts
10010
1 to answer my questions. I appreciate it very
2 much.
3 And, on the bill -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Paterson on the bill.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: -- just to
7 summarize this last part, Section 131.
8 Senator Saland is right. He
9 didn't mention a lien. I was a little
10 misleading. What I meant was that the tax lien
11 is the way that the municipality may obtain the
12 property, but, in reality, the municipality
13 doesn't actually know that it has the property,
14 and I think that was the area where Senator
15 Saland has thoughtfully tried to provide some
16 redress for the municipality, where the
17 municipality may not be at fault and may not
18 even know that they actually own the land.
19 But the issue is that, since he
20 writes in his legislation just that there is
21 ownership, he has not separated the acquiring of
22 the property by tax lien from the, also,
23 incident that occurs in many cases where the
10011
1 municipality actually owns the land, knows they
2 own the land, may even have been part of the
3 violation and the contamination of the land and,
4 because they now have a management company, they
5 are -- they have thwarted the attempts of
6 recovery on the part of plaintiffs.
7 And there are a number of issues
8 in this piece of legislation, as consolidated,
9 related to asbestos removal, related to the duty
10 of inmates often to provide financial relief for
11 their own incarceration, and obviously related
12 to -- to the professional ability of the
13 coroners and also the volunteer fire fighters'
14 training; and so there are a lot of good things
15 in this bill as with most consolidations, but
16 there are a number of things that, to me, raise
17 a red flag about whether or not we should be
18 enacting this bill at this particular time.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 140.
22 This act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10012
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
4 the results when tabulated.
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
7 the negative on Calendar Number 937 are Senators
8 Abate, Connor, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz,
9 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Santiago, Smith,
10 Solomon, Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 13.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
14 can you please recognize Senator Goodman.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Goodman.
17 SENATOR GOODMAN: With unanimous
18 consent, may I please be recorded in the
19 negative on Senate 3092, Calendar 1296, and
20 Senate 70 -- I'm sorry -- Senate 3093, Calendar
21 1297.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection, Senator Goodman will be recorded in
10013
1 the negative on Calendar Number 1296.
2 Senator Goodman, for your
3 benefit, Calendar Number 1297 has not been taken
4 up yet.
5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Has not what?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It has
7 not been taken up yet. It has not passed.
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: I beg your
9 pardon, Mr. President. I withdraw the request.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Santiago, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President,
13 I would like the record to show that if I had
14 been in the chamber when the Calendar Number
15 1299 passed, I would have been recorded in the
16 negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Santiago, the record will reflect that had you
19 been in the chamber when Calendar Number 1299
20 was called that you would have been recorded in
21 the negative.
22 Senator Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr.
10014
1 President. I was out of the chamber while the
2 debate was going on for the last turkey, and I
3 would like to be recorded in the negative on
4 937, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection, Senator Gold will be recorded in the
7 negative on Calendar Number 937.
8 Senator Mendez.
9 SENATOR MENDEZ: (Indicating in
10 the negative on 937.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
12 objection, Senator Mendez will be recorded in
13 the negative on Calendar Number 937.
14 Senator Spano.
15 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
16 can you please have the Secretary read Calendar
17 1287.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
19 will read the title of Calendar Number 1287.
20 THE SECRETARY: On page 32,
21 Calendar Number 1287, by Senator Hannon, Senate
22 Print 5238, an act to amend the Public Health
23 Law, in relation to quality assurance of managed
10015
1 care plans.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Hannon, an explanation of Calendar Number 1287
5 has been asked for by the Deputy Minority
6 Leader, Senator Paterson.
7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
8 President. This legislation which was contained
9 as part of our earlier omnibus Medicaid bill
10 that had only passed this house sets forth that
11 every health maintenance organization in the
12 state has to basically reach the standard set by
13 a national not-for-profit organization known as
14 the NCQA, and that group is the National
15 Committee for Quality Assurance, has set forth a
16 number of very stringent quality levels that
17 deals with consumer rights, members' rights and
18 responsibilities, questions as to how the
19 preventive health services shall be maintained,
20 questions as to appeals by individuals.
21 So it's basically a national
22 standard, and we were very interested in having
23 this as something that all of the HMOs in the
10016
1 state would achieve. It would be higher than
2 the standards that are currently in existence,
3 and we thought that was something that would
4 give the assurance to all of our constituents
5 that they would be receiving quality care when
6 they are getting their coverage under an HMO,
7 and that HMO right now is an organization that's
8 delivering care to about 25 percent of New
9 Yorkers, so that's the reason for it.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 Senator Hannon, we don't really
15 have much of a problem on this bill, just a
16 question that kind of comes to mind.
17 Since we have a state task force
18 on quality assurance, do you think that the
19 legislation is kind of jumping ahead of it?
20 Don't you think we should wait until they come
21 back with a recommendation?
22 SENATOR HANNON: No. Many of the
23 questions as to who is going to provide the
10017
1 coverage are being answered outside of the scope
2 of state government. They are being answered by
3 employers who are opting for reasons of cost,
4 for reasons of stabilization of cost, to have
5 their employees get their health coverage
6 through health maintenance organizations.
7 Let me point out to you that this
8 not-for-profit organization is nationally
9 recognized, has an ongoing, ever-increasing set
10 of standards, publishes in a very open way what
11 they are doing, their standards, looks for
12 increasing input.
13 So what it is is an ongoing
14 improvement of what's happening, and I think
15 that putting this out there, postulating it,
16 would be a good thing for us to say to people -
17 "Well, I've just gotten switched. How do I
18 know what they are doing is better than my old
19 plan?" Now we can say it's because we've
20 required this as a standard.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator -
10018
1 Senator Hannon. I have been asking Senator
2 Saland so many questions, I almost asked him
3 another one.
4 The National Committee on Quality
5 Assurance, are they recognized as upholding the
6 national standard, Senator?
7 SENATOR HANNON: Recognized?
8 SENATOR PATERSON: I mean do most
9 experts feel that they -
10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. Yes.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: All right.
12 Then -- unless Senator Hannon cares to comment.
13 SENATOR HANNON: I must tell you,
14 Senator, in the course of the discussions on it,
15 when we were putting it into the earlier bill,
16 the only complaints I heard, and they were never
17 on the record, were, "We don't know if we can be
18 sure that our plan will be able to meet those
19 high standards," and that actually, to my mind,
20 was a good reason to put them forward so that we
21 could say to folks, "Look, this is something we
22 want for the people who will get this coverage."
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10019
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
3 President. I guess you can have the Secretary
4 read the last section.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
6 President.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: I guess not,
8 Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you
10 sure?
11 Senator Dollinger.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have
13 one question, Mr. President, of the sponsor.
14 Does this bill provide that the Health
15 Department will do any kind of periodic review
16 of these national standards to evaluate them for
17 purposes of New York?
18 My concern is, I think this is a
19 good thing to do, to set a national -- to comply
20 with national standards, and I think if we
21 comply with national standards, we're probably
22 in pretty good hands. But at some point, does
23 the Health Department do any preliminary
10020
1 evaluation of those standards to make sure
2 they're the right standards for New York, or any
3 kind of certification, that these are quality
4 standards?
5 SENATOR HANNON: No. First of
6 all, they already have their own extensive set
7 of standards out there but, like most states,
8 they are already outmoded, and they don't have
9 the flexibility that I would think is good; and,
10 second, even if the state does have standards
11 and all of that that would be applicable, they
12 don't apply necessarily to all of the
13 employers.
14 We're stuck with the problem that
15 many of the big employers -- and actually the
16 cost has become so great, it goes down to
17 smaller employers have the ability to be
18 self-insured and, once self-insured, can get out
19 from under the state regulation.
20 So to the extent that we have
21 national companies or international companies
22 and IBM, Kodak, Bausch & Lomb, and Xerox and
23 American Express, they have opted into HMOs that
10021
1 meet these standards because they want to be
2 able to offer plans from state to state that
3 will all be of the same quality level.
4 So, no, we don't have it, but I
5 can also assure you that given the Health
6 Department, which already has 45 to 50 advisory
7 commissions, task forces, and councils, that
8 there is no lack of groups taking a look at
9 these standards.
10 The Task Force on Guidelines and
11 Outcomes I spoke to a couple weeks ago is now
12 desiring to transfer themselves just into this,
13 and you can be assured that the Public Health
14 Council, the Planning Council would all be doing
15 the same type of thing. So we have, in essence,
16 the equivalent of what you would be asking.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One other
18 short one, Mr. President.
19 Can I assume, Mr. Chairman, that
20 by your comments that those that are self
21 insured, the Kodaks and Xerox and others that
22 have done this, I mean they have an incentive to
23 make sure that these nationwide quality
10022
1 standards are high ones, because they are buying
2 the products, in essence, by paying the premiums
3 of the HMOs and their employees will be the
4 users of these services. Those employees would
5 want to make sure that high quality health care
6 through the HMOs is part of the process. So we
7 get that added effect of getting a closer
8 linkage between the buyer of the product, the
9 actual payor, and the provider of the product to
10 make sure that the quality standards are
11 consistent. That is part of it, as well?
12 SENATOR HANNON: Absolutely.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
14 Mr. Chairman. I will vote in favor.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10023
1 is passed.
2 Senator Spano.
3 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
4 please call Calendar 1327.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will read the title of Calendar Number 1327.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1327, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3631A,
9 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and Assembly
10 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 2, 10, 11
11 and 16 of Article VII of the Constitution.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Stafford for an explanation.
16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't know
17 why I'm thanking you for the question, but
18 anyway.
19 This, Mr. President, is the
20 second passage of the debt proposition which
21 will be before the voters if we pass this
22 proposition.
23 Mr. President, as we explained
10024
1 last year when this passed, this has been
2 negotiated with the Assembly, and what it does,
3 in effect, is limit borrowing money, and there
4 are limitations, and I can go over everything,
5 but the key here is that newly revenue-backed
6 debt is not subject to voter approval but
7 subject to a cap based on personal income, and
8 that cap will be -- it begins at 1 percent in
9 the state fiscal year 1996-97 and increases up
10 to 4.4 percent in fiscal year 2008-2009.
11 Doesn't that sound funny? And it isn't going to
12 be long when we are going to be saying that,
13 hopefully, all of us. Hopefully, all of us.
14 There are other prohibitions, Mr.
15 President. I think maybe we should emphasize
16 this one: Prohibition against contracting any
17 debt for operating purposes.
18 Also, there's creation of a
19 revenue debt backed by a dedicated trust fund
20 for financing transportation capital projects.
21 There will be an annual
22 submission by the Governor of a detailed multi
23 year capital projects plan and financing plan to
10025
1 the Legislature, which I think is welcome.
2 Thank you.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
4 recognizes Senator Onorato.
5 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator
6 Stafford, would you yield for a question?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Stafford, would you yield?
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator
13 Stafford, I take notice that last year Governor
14 Pataki voted against this bill. I was just
15 wondering if there's any changes now that would
16 make him change his mind into signing it.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: I have all I
18 can do to keep track of myself from year to
19 year, how we're voting, and I'm not going to
20 look at anybody's vote other than this year, and
21 I hope we certainly will have the required
22 number.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10026
1 Hoffmann.
2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator
3 Stafford yield for another question, Mr.
4 President?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Hoffmann?
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator
9 Stafford, would this bill allow extreme
10 circumstances in which borrowing could occur in
11 excess of the amount stipulated?
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I want to
13 commend Senator Hoffmann for reading the
14 proposition. I inadvertently went over that
15 portion. Yes.
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President,
17 if Senator Stafford would continue to yield, I
18 would convey to him through you my appreciation
19 for his commendation on my reading of the bill,
20 but I -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Stafford, Senator Hoffmann is very appreciative
23 of your recognition that she has read the bill.
10027
1 She wants to know whether or not you would yield
2 to another question?
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, due to
4 the fact that -- yes. Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 yields.
7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 I wonder if Senator Stafford
10 could explain to the members of the Senate the
11 situation of economic emergency which might
12 precipitate such additional borrowing on the
13 State's present credit rating.
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: I recall -- I
15 don't think there's anyone in the room that
16 would remember other than myself -- for
17 instance, Route 3 between Saranac Lake and
18 Plattsburgh -
19 Oh, you remember that? Well,
20 good.
21 On a serious note -- was
22 completely wiped out by a flash flood. It was
23 in 1947, and I think it was on a Sunday; and as
10028
1 a matter of fact, I think it was -
2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explanation
3 satisfactory, Mr. President.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
5 (Laughter.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 question is on the resolution. The Secretary
8 will call the roll.
9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Whoa! Whoa!
10 Mr. President, on the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Hoffmann, on the bill.
13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I will -
14 please convey to Senator Stafford my extreme
15 satisfaction at his lengthy explanation about
16 activities in his district on the year that I
17 was born, and my limited frustration at not
18 having a better understanding of those emergency
19 procedures or states within the state of New
20 York that might compel borrowing against the
21 state's debt load in excess of the amount
22 stipulated within this measure.
23 But I am reading from some
10029
1 memorandum provided by staff and also from the
2 Senate record from a debate that took place, if
3 you could call it that, at 2:25 a.m. on the 8th
4 of June last year, which was the first occasion
5 when we passed this; and I want to commend you,
6 Mr. President -- you were presiding at the
7 time -- on your even-handed handling of the
8 gavel that evening because it must have been a
9 very stressful debate, judging by the many pages
10 that I have here.
11 However, it was apparent that
12 time, and it's apparent this time, that there
13 are many unanswered questions about this
14 measure, that it is clearly not the kind of debt
15 reform that we should, in fact, be doing and I
16 would just remind my colleagues again this year,
17 as I did last year, that we do not have to pass
18 this measure now. It does not have to go before
19 the voters for at least another year.
20 We could hold public hearings on
21 this. We could do many things to make it a
22 better bill. It does not have long-term
23 oversight as was recommended by the Comptroller
10030
1 in his original bill. It allows a procedure
2 classified as an emergency measure when the
3 State's unemployment rate exceeds -- when there
4 is a 3 percent decline in employment. It
5 doesn't say whether it's a decline over a period
6 of a few days, a few months, or a year, but a
7 decline of employment at the rate of 3 percent
8 could be classified as an emergency, an economic
9 emergency allowing some rather casual and
10 dangerous borrowing in addition to the debt load
11 that we already have.
12 Probably the most frustrating
13 feature of all in this so-called Debt Reform Act
14 is the fact that it does not address the fact
15 that we already have an excessive amount of
16 debt. It simply allows us additional ways that
17 we could accumulate more debt. I find that to
18 be an unacceptable way for us to address the
19 business of the state, and I find myself, once
20 again, in the unique position of being a
21 Democrat serving in the New York State Senate
22 who is in agreement with another member of this
23 house who served here last term who is now the
10031
1 Governor of this state, and when George Pataki
2 and I and other members of this house voted
3 against this measure last session, I believe we
4 were correct.
5 This is not a significant debt
6 reform measure. We should not be perpetuating
7 this fraud. We should not be telling people
8 this is our way of cleaning up the state's
9 finances and not getting us into trouble in the
10 future because it simply isn't true.
11 We should all have the courage to
12 vote no now, say we made a mistake last year, go
13 back to the drawing board and not claim that we
14 want to put this before the public in a
15 referendum to change the Constitution of this
16 state. It is not debt reform.
17 I will once again vote no, and
18 I'm sure we have not heard the last of this, Mr.
19 President.
20 Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 question is on the resolution. Excuse me.
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Very briefly.
10032
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Stafford.
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator
4 Hoffmann raises a legitimate issue. As with
5 lawyers, you know, this is what happens. There
6 is a real difference of opinion whether we have
7 to pass this, in other words, a year following
8 when we passed the first one, so in other words,
9 this year. Some people would say we could do it
10 next year, but I would suggest that we should
11 pass it this year because there is a question,
12 and I think it -- looking at it, I think, it
13 would fall if we did not do it this year.
14 And please let me emphasize this,
15 Mr. President. This is not -- is not perfect, I
16 assure you, but when we have prohibitions in
17 here for contracting any debt for operating
18 purposes, I suggest we're stepping in the right
19 direction.
20 Also in this emergency, I would
21 just point out that we looked at it, and it is
22 the preceding 12 months of the -- when they want
23 to borrow the money as far as the 3 percent
10033
1 decline in the level of state employment, and I
2 should have pointed that out.
3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
4 Senator Stafford.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 question is on the resolution. Secretary will
7 call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
11 the result -- Senator Jones to explain her vote.
12 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I was going
13 to ask questions, but Senator Hoffmann quickly
14 demonstrated to me the uselessness of that, so I
15 will just go ahead and vote. Many of the things
16 she said, certainly I feel the same way about.
17 I felt very comfortable joining Senator Pataki
18 last year in voting against this.
19 I think the problem is, while it
20 certainly is an improvement on the debt
21 situation that we found ourselves in, there's
22 still a lot more we could do, and it seems like
23 so often we grab at something rather than do
10034
1 nothing. I would rather grab at something
2 correct that does answer all the problems than
3 accept nothing.
4 We just did that last week with
5 the pension bill, where we accepted a raid. We
6 all knew it wasn't right, but we wanted the
7 pension supplement.
8 So I'm going to stick with my no
9 vote and I still believe, although debt reform
10 is certainly -- and it is an issue that I've
11 spent a lot of time on. I still think there's
12 something better than this bill that we could go
13 for, so I'm going to say no until I see that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Jones will be recorded in the negative.
16 Senator Montgomery? Being
17 recorded in the negative.
18 Senator Leichter to explain his
19 vote.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
21 last year, I voted in the negative on this bill,
22 and I was glad that then Senator George Pataki
23 stood with us. However, now having had first
10035
1 passage, and with the ability to have second
2 passage and bearing in mind that otherwise we go
3 back to the drawing board and we will not have
4 any limitations or restriction on what has been
5 really a chaotic and indisciplined borrowing
6 practice by the State of New York, I think it
7 makes sense to support this resolution.
8 I believe that even though the
9 Comptroller last year had some questions on it
10 that he is supporting this second passage. It
11 does impose some important restrictions against
12 undisciplined borrowing and, for that reason, I
13 will support it this year. Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative.
16 Senator Dollinger to explain his
17 vote.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my
19 vote, Mr. President.
20 I also voted with then Senator
21 George Pataki against this bill, and I guess
22 I've come to the conclusion that there are those
23 in this chamber who may say we've gotten a
10036
1 little bit of discipline in this proposed
2 constitutional amendment, and we probably do
3 have a little bit of discipline.
4 My fear is even if the voters
5 accept this little bit of discipline, we will
6 all declare a great victory and for 20 years we
7 will put the issue of reforming our debt
8 practices way, way, way back on the back burner,
9 and it will be the year 2020 before we get
10 around to creating real discipline in our debt
11 practices.
12 So, although this takes a step
13 down the road, I would have preferred a much
14 more giant step to really reform the practices
15 and get the state back on a better borrowing
16 keel.
17 I will be voting negative, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
23 the negative on Calendar 1327 are Senators
10037
1 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, and Montgomery.
2 Ayes 56, nays 4.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 resolution is adopted.
5 Senator Maziarz.
6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Regular order,
7 Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will continue to call the
10 controversial calendar, Supplemental Calendar
11 Number 1.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1324, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3006-A, an
14 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
15 relation to the presence of counsel.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Libous, an explanation has been asked for by
19 Senator Paterson.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay that bill
21 aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside for the day.
10038
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1333, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4799, an
3 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
4 including certain obscenity crimes in the
5 definition of criminal act under the Organized
6 Crime Control Act.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect on the first day of
11 November.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815 -
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay it aside
21 for a few minutes, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside temporarily.
10039
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly
3 Print 4958, concurrent resolution of the Senate
4 and Assembly proposing amendments to Section 1,
5 5, 6 and 8 of Article II of the Constitution.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
9 might we call the roll on reconsideration on
10 Calendar Number 1333 for purposes of having it
11 explained? It just passed.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is in the house. The Secretary will call the
14 roll on reconsideration on Calendar Number 1333.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1333, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4799, an
17 act to amend the Penal Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is before the house.
20 Senator Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
22 please.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
10040
1 thought my explanation was suff... no, no. What
2 this bill does, it's a bill that's passed this
3 house on several occasions before which would
4 include obscenity in the definition of a
5 criminal act under the Organized Crime Control
6 Act, and it would, in effect, add pornography to
7 the definition of criminal acts that are covered
8 by the Organized Crime Control Act or, I guess
9 it's called RICO.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: The
13 explanation, satisfactory as it may have been,
14 leads me to a question, if Senator Volker would
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Volker, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
18 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
22 Volker, why did the Organized Crime Task Force
23 in the past eschew the opportunity to include
10041
1 pornography as one of the definitions?
2 SENATOR VOLKER: Why? Maybe I
3 didn't understand. In order for it to be
4 included in the purview of the RICO laws or
5 whatever, we have to -- we have to put it in
6 there. When the -- maybe your question is why
7 wasn't it. Maybe I missed that, and I guess the
8 answer was I think it was -- frankly, at the
9 time it was plainly overlooked and, of course,
10 the issue of pornography and obscenity has
11 become a much bigger issue in the last five to
12 eight years, and I guess that's why the thought
13 is that it should also be included and because
14 of the fact that it has become an issue that has
15 become a much bigger racketeering issue and -
16 that some of the organized crime people clearly
17 have gotten involved in.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: I hope the
21 next time the Organized Crime Task Force has a
22 vacancy, that you'll consider me because I
23 overlooked this bill when it went by the first
10042
1 time. The explanation is satisfactory.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the first day of
6 November.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly
15 Print 4958, concurrent resolution of the Senate
16 and Assembly proposing amendments to Section 1,
17 5, 6 and 8 of Article II of the Constitution.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Secretary will call the roll on the resolution.
20 Senator Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 may we hold that a moment for Senator Gold who,
23 I believe, had a question on it?
10043
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Gold.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
4 was out of the room, I understand we passed 1333
5 which had some opposition last year, but
6 apparently this year it's been supported by many
7 of the members. Please, I ask unanimous consent
8 to be recorded in the negative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Gold, we'll take that up in a minute. I
11 understood that you wanted to ask some questions
12 on Calendar Number 1341; it's a concurrent
13 resolution which is currently before the house.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator
15 Maltese yield to a question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Maltese, do you yield?
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, was this
22 bill changed from last year?
23 SENATOR MALTESE: No, Mr.
10044
1 President. The bill was not changed from last
2 year when there were only two negative votes on
3 the bill.
4 SENATOR GOLD: I don't remember
5 the negatives. Who were they?
6 SENATOR MALTESE: The two
7 negative votes were DiCarlo and Maltese, Mr.
8 President.
9 (Laughter.)
10 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator
11 Maltese, I want the record to indicate that the
12 laughter came from your side, not mine -- not my
13 side.
14 SENATOR MALTESE: The record
15 should indicate that I joined in the laugh.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Because, Senator
17 Maltese, I admire somebody who's educable and I
18 now know that 1/36th of your side is educable.
19 Last section.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
10045
1 the results when tabulated.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2,
3 Senators DiCarlo and Libous recorded in the
4 negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 resolution is adopted.
7 The Secretary will continue to
8 call the controversial calendar.
9 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Maziarz.
12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
13 would you please lay aside Calendar Number 1334,
14 and there will be an immediate meeting of the
15 Rules Committee and the Senate will stand at
16 ease.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Maziarz, before we stand at ease, we have some
19 housekeeping. Also, Senator Paterson -- Senator
20 Paterson, Senator Gold, I think, wanted to be
21 recorded in the negative -
22 SENATOR PATERSON: He certainly
23 did, Mr. President.
10046
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- on
2 Calendar Number 1333.
3 Senator Gold -- Senator Gold, may
4 I have your attention? Did you wish to be
5 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
6 1333?
7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Gold
10 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
11 Number 1333.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
16 Leichter feels that Senator Gold shouldn't be
17 alone tonight and so he would like to be
18 recognized.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Leichter.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have
23 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
10047
1 on Calendar Number 1333?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
3 objection, Senator Leichter -- and hearing no
4 objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar Number 1333.
6 Senator Sears, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR SEARS: Yes, Mr.
8 President. Calendar Number 1238, Senate Print
9 Number 4903-B, would you please remove the star,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the
12 request of the sponsor, the star will be
13 removed. The number again, Senator Sears,
14 was -
15 SENATOR SEARS: Calendar 1238.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1238.
17 Thank you.
18 SENATOR SEARS: Senate Print
19 Number 4903-B.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The star
21 will be removed.
22 Senator Waldon, did you wish to
23 be recognized?
10048
1 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, Mr.
2 President. I respectfully request to be
3 recorded in the negative on 13... what was the
4 next part?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Waldon
7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
8 Number 1333.
9 Senator Montgomery.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Mr.
11 President, I would like to also be recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar 1333.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
14 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator
15 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
16 Calendar 1333.
17 Senator Smith.
18 SENATOR SMITH: I would also
19 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the
20 negative on Calendar Number 1333.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Smith
23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
10049
1 Number 1333.
2 Senator Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 On behalf of Senator Holland,
6 would you please place a sponsor's star on the
7 following Calendar Numbers: 888, 889, 891, 892.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the
9 request of the sponsor, calendar stars will be
10 placed on Calendar Numbers 888, 889, 891 and
11 892.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 On behalf of Senator Padavan, I
16 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 4185,
17 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
18 desk.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the title.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 746, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4185, an
23 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
10050
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 I now move to reconsider the vote
6 by which this bill has passed.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
9 bill passed.
10 The Secretary will call the roll
11 on reconsideration.
12 (The Secretary called the roll on
13 reconsideration.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Libous.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 I now offer up the following
20 amendments.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 amendments are received and adopted.
23 Senator Santiago, did you wish to
10051
1 register a vote?
2 Senator Maziarz.
3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
4 is there any further housekeeping matters?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
6 informed by the Secretary at the desk that the
7 housekeeping has been completed.
8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 There will be an immediate
11 meeting of the Rules Committee and the Senate
12 will stand at ease.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
14 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
15 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
16 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee
17 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. The
18 Senate will stand at ease awaiting a report of
19 the Rules Committee which will be taken up, I'm
20 informed tomorrow.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Gold.
10052
1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. People have
2 been asking and maybe we can just clarify it.
3 We're at ease for the Rules Committee, but my
4 upstanding is that we're not going to do any
5 more bills tonight, is that correct? So if
6 there are some who really want to get at ease,
7 it's legitimate.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Rules
9 report is being prepared for tomorrow's
10 calendar, Senator Gold. We don't anticipate, so
11 I'm told, any additional bills being taken up
12 this evening.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr.
14 President, will you yield to one other
15 question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: In the field of
19 your expertise, Mr. President, what time does
20 the driving range at Exit 8 close tonight?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon
22 me, Senator Gold? I didn't hear that.
23 SENATOR GOLD: That's all right.
10053
1 Senator Libous answered me.
2 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Waldon.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 May the record reflect that had I
8 been here on June 12th, 1995 when this august
9 body considered Calendar 994, Senate 5019, that
10 I would have voted in the negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 calendar will reflect that had you been here on
13 Monday, June 12th, when Calendar Number 994 was
14 called, that you would have voted in the
15 negative and with that, the Senate stands at
16 ease awaiting the Rules report.
17 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
18 ease from 7:35 p.m. until 7:45 p.m.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
20 Spano.
21 SENATOR SPANO: Please return to
22 reports of standing committees.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The
10054
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
4 following bills:
5 Senate Print 563, by Senator
6 Cook, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law,
7 in relation to making certain state lands;
8 1119, by Senator Spano, an act to
9 amend the Public Health Law, in relation to the
10 extension of professional privileges;
11 1652, by Senator LaValle, an act
12 to amend the Town Law, in relation to initiation
13 of a criminal history check;
14 1985, by Senator Hoblock, an act
15 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
16 to the definition of a bell jar;
17 2615, by Senator Leibell, an act
18 in relation to authorizing the reconveyance to
19 the Lakeview Manor Community Association;
20 2677, by Senator Leibell, an act
21 authorizing the town of Southeast, Putnam County
22 to establish a road or highway;
23 2682, by Senator Leibell, an act
10055
1 to amend the Town Law, in relation to the
2 dissolution of the Lakeview Manor Park District;
3 3002-A, by Senator Johnson, an
4 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
5 to eliminating utilities as installers;
6 3915, by Senator Oppenheimer, an
7 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
8 relation to allowing the town of Rye to levy
9 taxes;
10 3966, by Senator Johnson, an act
11 in relation to granting Joseph Donnelly certain
12 service credit;
13 4252, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
14 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in
15 relation to regulating the hours of sale by a
16 winery;
17 4451-B, by Senator Velella, an
18 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security
19 Law, in relation to making certain technical
20 corrections;
21 4544-A, by Senator Farley, an act
22 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules and
23 the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act, in relation
10056
1 to authorizing deposits;
2 4648, by Senator Johnson, an act
3 in relation to authorizing Perry S. Reich to
4 purchase certain retirement service credit;
5 4919, by Senator Libous, an act
6 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to extending
7 the authorization granted to the county of
8 Tioga;
9 5079, by Senator Hoblock, an act
10 to amend the lobbying act, in relation to the
11 use of 800 telephone numbers;
12 5247, by Senator Present, an act
13 to amend the Education Law, in relation to
14 authorizing the establishment of a Community
15 College Region;
16 5283, by Senator Hoffmann, an act
17 to authorize the city of Oneida, Madison County
18 to sell, transfer and convey the Oneida City
19 Hospital;
20 5442-A, by Senator Levy, an act
21 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
22 relation to establishing an advisory committee;
23 5328-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an
10057
1 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
2 extending the period for an additional one
3 percent Monroe County sales tax rate;
4 5351, by Senator Padavan, an act
5 to amend Chapter 420 of the Laws of 1991,
6 amending the Real Property Tax Law;
7 5361, by Senator Larkin, an act
8 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
9 to making technical and clarifying amendments
10 thereto;
11 5365, by Senator Stafford, an act
12 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
13 establishing the Ovarian Cancer Information
14 Program;
15 5370, by Senator Saland, an act
16 to amend the Family Protection and Domestic
17 Violence Intervention Act of 1994;
18 5392, by the Senate Committee on
19 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 653 of the Laws
20 of 1984, amending the Social Services Law,
21 relating to certain chronic care management
22 demonstration program;
23 5412, by Senator Sears, an act to
10058
1 amend the Personal Property Law and the
2 Insurance Law, in relation to making certain
3 technical amendments;
4 5413, by Senator Sears, an act to
5 amend Chapter 1 of the Laws of 1994, amending
6 the Personal Property Law, General Obligations
7 Law, General Business Law and Vehicle and
8 Traffic Law;
9 5436, by Senator Farley, an act
10 to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
11 interstate branching;
12 4181, by Senator Galiber, an act
13 to amend the Education Law, in relation to
14 providing grants to school districts; and
15 2548, by Senator Abate, an act to
16 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in
17 relation to requiring applicants for licenses
18 and renewals to submit certificates of
19 occupancy;
20 All bills ordered directly for
21 third reading.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator
23 Spano.
10059
1 SENATOR SPANO: I move that we
2 accept the report, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: All in
4 favor of accepting the report signify by saying
5 aye.
6 (Response of "Aye".)
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (There was no response.)
9 The report is accepted.
10 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
11 there being no further business, I make a motion
12 that we adjourn until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow
13 morning.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The
15 Senate is adjourned until 10:00 a.m., June 15th,
16 1995, tomorrow.
17 (Whereupon, at 7:55 p.m., the
18 Senate adjourned.)
19
20
21
22
23