Regular Session - June 15, 1995

                                                                 
10060

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                        June 15, 1995

        10                           10:00 a.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY, President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
10061

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.  Would everyone please rise and

         4       repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (The assemblage repeated the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         7                      The invocation today will be

         8       given by Reverend Shirley Daniels from the

         9       Evangel Temple of Albany.

        10                      Welcome, Reverend Daniels.

        11                      REVEREND SHIRLEY DANIELS:  Let us

        12       pray.  Eternal God our Father, You said in

        13       everything we should give thanks.  We do thank

        14       You for this day and we thank You for all these

        15       Senators and the staff who have worked

        16       untiringly throughout this session.  We thank

        17       You for the budget that they have passed, and

        18       now, eternal God, we ask Your blessings upon

        19       these Senators as well as the staff on this last

        20       day of session.  We pray as they start this

        21       meeting that You would give them the wisdom and

        22       the knowledge to complete all the necessary

        23       transactions and discussions that they need to











                                                             
10062

         1       wrap up this session.

         2                      We pray for their continued

         3       health, devotion and dedication as they serve as

         4       Senators of this great state.  Guide them

         5       throughout this day in all the matters.  In Your

         6       holy name we pray.  Amen.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

         8                      That was very eloquent.

         9                      The reading of the Journal.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        11       Wednesday, June 14th.  The Senate met pursuant

        12       to adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon

        13       designation of the Temporary President.  Prayer

        14       by the Rabbi Jeffrey Miller, Congregation

        15       Marathon Jewish Center, Douglaston, New York.

        16       The Journal of Tuesday, June 13th, was read and

        17       approved.  On motion, the Senate adjourned.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        19       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        20                      Presentation of petitions.

        21                      Messages from the Assembly.

        22                      Messages from the Governor.

        23                      Reports of standing committees.











                                                             
10063

         1                      Reports of select committees.

         2                      Communications and reports from

         3       state officers.

         4                      Motions and resolutions.

         5                      Senator Marcellino.

         6                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Madam

         7       President, on behalf of Senator Libous, may we

         8       please place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number

         9       1324.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        11       objection.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  We have one

        14       substitution.  The Secretary will read.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 36,

        16       Senator Padavan moves to discharge from the

        17       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7667

        18       and substitute it for the identical Calendar

        19       Number 1376.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  The substitution

        21       is ordered.

        22                      Senator Larkin.

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Madam President,











                                                             
10064

         1       I would like to remove the sponsor's star from

         2       Calendar 215, Senate Print 2090-C.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The star is

         4       removed.

         5                      Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

         7       can we at this time take up the noncontrovers

         8       ial calendar.

         9                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Secretary

        10       will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       110, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

        13       Assembly Print Number 3222-B, an act to amend

        14       the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law, in relation

        15       to division of trusts.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        17       section, please.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 32.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is











                                                             
10065

         1       passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       215, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2090-C, an

         4       act to amend Chapter 545 of the Laws of 1938,

         5       relating to a system of coordinates.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

         7       section, please.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam President,

        12       can I ask the indulgence of the Minority and ask

        13       you for unanimous consent to at this time take

        14       up Senator Larkin's bill?  It's Calendar Number

        15       215.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        17       objection, the Secretary will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       215, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2090-C, an

        20       act to amend Chapter 545 of the Laws of 1938,

        21       relating to a system of coordinates.

        22                      THE PRESIDENT:  Read the last

        23       section, please.











                                                             
10066

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  Call the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  The bill is

         7       passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       222, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 2764-C, an

        10       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        11       reciprocal insurers.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       251, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 1635, an

        23       act to amend the Social Services Law, in











                                                             
10067

         1       relation to designation of the Capital District

         2       Youth Center.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       387, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2833-B, an

        15       act to amend Chapter 689 of the Laws of 1993,

        16       amending the Criminal Procedure Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10068

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       414, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4050-A, an

         6       act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

         7       transportation facility emergency work.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       425 -

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       447, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 2419-A, an











                                                             
10069

         1       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         2       creating a long-term care ombudsman.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the first day of

         7       November.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       462, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4168-A, an

        16       act to amend the Highway Law and the Public

        17       Authorities Law, in relation to the dedicated

        18       highway and bridge trust fund cooperative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
10070

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       507, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3775-A, an

         8       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

         9       to the duty to support recipients.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       543 -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is high.  Lay the bill aside.











                                                             
10071

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       554, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2367-A, an

         3       act to amend Chapter 207 of the Laws of 1994,

         4       relating to incorporating the Twin District

         5       Firemen's Benevolent Association.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       566, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 339-A, an act

        18       to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to

        19       expanding the definition of "school".

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect September 1.











                                                             
10072

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         5       the results when tabulated.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38, nays 1,

         7       Senator Wright recorded in the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       583, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 41...

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       607 -

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       665, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4384, an act

        21       relating to the apportionment of building aid

        22       and reorganization incentive building aid.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a











                                                             
10073

         1       local fiscal impact note at the desk.  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       705, by Senator Solomon, Senate Print 4223-A, an

        13       act to amend Chapter 60 of the Laws of 1994,

        14       relating to certain provisions.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
10074

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       748, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 193-B, an act

         4       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

         5       to requiring child safety devices.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect -

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1198, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3817-B,

        15       an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation

        16       to extending the expiration date for Article 54.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10075

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1218, by Senator Maltese -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         8       no home rule message at the desk.  The bill will

         9       be laid aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1221 -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1233 -

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1238 -

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1239, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5027-B, an











                                                             
10076

         1       act to amend Chapter 237 of the Laws of 1993,

         2       amending the Environmental Conservation Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 18.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1244, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5331, an

        15       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to the

        16       licensing of money transmitters.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10077

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38, nays 1,

         2       Senator Spano recorded in the negative.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1245, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5332, an

         7       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

         8       banging records.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1267, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3873-A, an

        21       act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation

        22       to establishing a New York State Real Estate

        23       Board.











                                                             
10078

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1270, by Senator Velella, Senate Print -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1276, by Senator -

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1283 -

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1293, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1297-A, an

        20       act to amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure

        21       Act, in relation to the statute of limitations.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
10079

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1297, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3093, an

         6       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

         7       relation to -

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1314, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5286-A,

        13       an act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law,

        14       in relation to tax exemption.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
10080

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1315, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5304, an

         4       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

         5       extending the expiration of provisions

         6       authorizing the county of Herkimer.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1318, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5327, an

        19       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        20       extending the effectiveness of provisions

        21       authorizing the county of Oneida.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
10081

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1319, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5352,

        11       an act to authorize the city of Buffalo, Erie

        12       County to lease certain parklands.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's

        14       no home rule message at the desk.  Lay the bill

        15       aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1322, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2458-A, an

        18       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

        19       to orders of protection.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the











                                                             
10082

         1       bill aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1354, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5321, an

         4       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

         5       relation to period of limitation.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1355, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 563, an act

        11       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        12       to making certain state lands in Sullivan County

        13       subject to taxation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
10083

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1356, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1119, an

         3       act to amend -

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1357, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1652, an

         9       act to amend the Town Law, in relation to

        10       initiation of a criminal history check.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1358, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 1985 -

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.











                                                             
10084

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1359, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2615, an

         5       act in relation to authorizing the reconveyance

         6       to the Lakeview Manor Community Association of

         7       certain lands.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         9       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1360, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2677, an

        21       act authorizing the town of Southeast, Putnam

        22       County to establish a road or highway

        23       improvement district.











                                                             
10085

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         2       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1361, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2682, an

        14       act to amend the Town Law, in relation to

        15       dissolution of the Lakeview Manor Park District.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        17       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10086

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1362, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3002-A -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1363, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 3915,

        11       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        12       relation to the town of Rye to levy taxes.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10087

         1       1364, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3966, an

         2       act in relation to granting Joseph Donnelly

         3       certain service credit.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1365, by Senator Nozzolio -

        16                      SENATOR SMITH:  Lay it aside,

        17       please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1367, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4451-B,

        22       an act to amend the Retirement and Social

        23       Security Law, in relation to making certain











                                                             
10088

         1       technical corrections.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1368, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4544-A, an

        14       act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules

        15       and the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act

        16       authorizing deposits into credit unions.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10089

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1369, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4648, an

         6       act in relation to authorizing Perry S. Reich to

         7       purchase certain retirement service credit.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Tully, why do you rise?

        21                      SENATOR TULLY:  Did we call

        22       Calendar 1365?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We did











                                                             
10090

         1       and it was laid aside.

         2                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will continue to call the

         6       non-controversial calendar.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1370, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4919, an

         9       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        10       extending the authorization granted to the

        11       county of Tioga.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1371, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print -











                                                             
10091

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1372, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5247, an

         6       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

         7       authorizing the establishment of a community

         8       college region.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20        -- Calendar Number 1373, by Senator Hoffmann,

        21       Senate Print 5283-A, an act to authorize the

        22       city of Oneida, Madison County to sell, transfer

        23       and convey the Oneida City Hospitals.











                                                             
10092

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         2       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1374, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5342-A, an

        14       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        15       relation to establishing an advisory committee.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1375 -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is high.  We'll lay the bill aside.

        23                      Senator Bruno, that completes the











                                                             
10093

         1       reading of the non-controversial calendar.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         3       can we at this time take up the controversial

         4       calendar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read the controversial calendar.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 12,

         8       Calendar Number 583, by Senator Levy, Senate

         9       Print 4146-A, an act to amend the Transportation

        10       Law, in relation to requiring the Commissioner

        11       of Transportation.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        13                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside temporarily.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       748, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 193-B, an act

        18       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

        19       to requiring child safety devices.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect 360 days next succeeding











                                                             
10094

         1       the date.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.  Announce the results when tabulated.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Gold.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  If I can explain

        12       my vote.

        13                      I first of all want to point out

        14       to the members, this bill which is a Gold-Sears

        15       bill is in a "B" print and was negotiated with

        16       the parties concerned, and I have in my hand a

        17       letter dated June 14th from Michael Rosen which

        18       thanks us for amending the bill to address their

        19       concerns and appreciates our willingness to work

        20       with them.

        21                      Having explained my vote, Mr.

        22       President, for the time being, I would like to

        23       lay the bill aside and take it up later in a











                                                             
10095

         1       more enlightened, hopefully, atmosphere.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside temporarily.

         4                      The Secretary will continue to

         5       call the controversial calendar.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1267, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3873-A, an

         8       act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation

         9       to establishing a New York State Real State

        10       Board.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Marchi, an explanation of Calendar Number 1267

        14       has been asked for by Senator Paterson.

        15                      Senator Marchi, would you wait

        16       just a minute so you don't have to yell in a

        17       loud way.  There's an awful lot of noise, an

        18       awful lot of movement in the chamber.  The

        19       members please take their seats, the staff

        20       please take their places.  If you have to have a

        21       conversation, take it out of the chamber or

        22       we'll take you out of the chamber.

        23                      Thank you, Senator Marchi, for











                                                             
10096

         1       the interruption.  An explanation has been asked

         2       for by the Deputy Minority Leader, Senator

         3       Paterson.

         4                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I would only be

         5       too happy to give the explanation, but I have

         6       just received some information of another

         7       concern that surfaced and I would like to lay

         8       this bill aside temporarily.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        10       Number 1267 will be laid aside temporarily.

        11                      The Secretary will continue to

        12       call the controversial calendar.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1270, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 2586, an

        15       act to amend Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1975,

        16       relating to authorizing the Commissioner of

        17       Education.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1270,

        21       Senate Print 2586 has been asked for by the

        22       Deputy Minority Leader, Senator Paterson.

        23                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10097

         1       can we lay that bill aside for today?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside for the day.  The Secretary will

         4       continue to call the controversial calendar.

         5                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         6       Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         8       can we at this time return to reports of

         9       standing committees and hear the report from the

        10       Judiciary Committee.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        12       return to reports of standing committees.  The

        13       Secretary will read the report of the Judiciary

        14       Committee.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

        16       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

        17       following nomination:  Richard Martin Klein of

        18       Huntington, New York State Court of Claims.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        20       recognizes Senator Lack.

        21                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      Mr. President, we are and will











                                                             
10098

         1       complete this morning a series of judicial

         2       confirmations and by the end of this morning, we

         3       will have over the last couple of weeks

         4       confirmed 23 new judges in this state.  Nine of

         5       those judges are already judges in other

         6       positions and are assuming new duties.

         7                      It's an extraordinary accom

         8       plishment for Governor Pataki.  He appointed a

         9       Temporary Judicial Screening Committee comprised

        10       of former Chief Judge Lawrence Cooke of the

        11       state of New York, and as a result, the Governor

        12       has sent us, and if I can quote Senator Gold and

        13       Senator Dollinger over the last couple of

        14       meetings of the Judiciary Committee, an

        15       extraordinary list of judicial candidates, all

        16       of whom are very well deserving of office.

        17                      I want to compliment the Governor

        18       on the nominees that he has sent to the floor of

        19       the Senate.  I want to thank the Governor's

        20       staff, Michael Finnegan, his counsel, Michael

        21       Ambrecht, deputy counsel to the Governor, James

        22       McGuire, deputy counsel to the Governor, Brian

        23       Maloney, Mr. Finnegan's staff, as well as the











                                                             
10099

         1       extraordinary work of my own staff, my counsels

         2       Dave Gruenberg and Amy Karp, my committee clerk,

         3       Sue Zimmer and, Senator Bruno, you will be

         4       particularly happy to know that with your

         5       admonition that we must try to save money in the

         6       Senate, that Ned Cole who is the chief counsel

         7       to the Senate Judiciary Committee and retired a

         8       couple months ago at his own time and expense

         9       has come back to the Senate as a volunteer to

        10       work with us to try to get these judges

        11       confirmed and, Ned, regardless of prior titles

        12       that you've had, you will now always be known as

        13       worthy counsel in this chamber and thank you so

        14       very much.

        15                      And last but not least, I want to

        16       thank the members of the Judiciary Committee who

        17       have had to sit through four early morning

        18       special meetings to bring to the floor the 23

        19       judges that we have either confirmed or will be

        20       in the process of confirming this morning.

        21                      As I have said, they have been an

        22       extraordinary group.  They range from a partner

        23       in one of New York City's best known and largest











                                                             
10100

         1       law firms who we will be confirming in a couple

         2       of minutes, to a three-hat judge that we did

         3       last week who fascinated the members of the

         4       committee on how you can serve as a Surrogate,

         5       County Court judge and a Family Court judge all

         6       at the same time, sometimes indeed during the

         7       very same day; to the first woman judge ever

         8       appointed or elected in the history of Oneida

         9       County who Senator DeFrancisco quite aptly

        10       pointed out was also probably the most qualified

        11       person in Oneida County to receive that

        12       judgeship; to the United States federal

        13       magistrate from Rochester, New York who wanted

        14       to come back and serve in the state courts and

        15       who's being appointed to the Supreme Court; and

        16       last but not least, to our colleague yesterday

        17       from Ticonderoga who is so self-effacing that

        18       many members of this chamber, while knowing that

        19       he had served in the military, did not realize

        20       that he was in the Marine Corps, that he was a

        21       General and, indeed, was the Judge Advocate

        22       General of the United States Marines.

        23                      And that, Mr. President, brings











                                                             
10101

         1       me, if I may, to the nominee we currently have

         2       on the floor, my favorite, of course, of the 23

         3       because he is an old and dear friend of mine.

         4       Richard Martin Klein I first met when I became

         5       an assistant district attorney in Suffolk County

         6       in 1972.

         7                      I had been doing consumer work

         8       here for the state, was counsel to the state

         9       Consumer Protection Board and knew virtually

        10       little about criminal law and I was very

        11       fortunate, that one of the first A.D.A.s I met

        12       when I got to Suffolk County from -- both from

        13       the standpoint of trying to work in the office

        14       and protect the people from Suffolk County was

        15       Dick Klein.  We became old and very good friends

        16       when I came Commissioner of Consumer Affairs in

        17       Suffolk County and established a Consumer Crime

        18       Task Force under a Law Enforcement Assistance

        19       Administration grant; Dick Klein became the

        20       attorney in charge and counsel to that.

        21                      He subsequently -- he served for

        22       a number of years in the municipal court bureaus

        23       and other bureaus of the Suffolk County county











                                                             
10102

         1       attorney's office achieving an admirable record

         2       in that office, became the deputy town attorney

         3       for the town of Huntington.  He was appointed by

         4       Suffolk County Executive Bob Gaffney, a former

         5       member of the Assembly, to a position in the

         6       Suffolk County District Court in 1992,

         7       unanimously concerned -- confirmed by all the

         8       members of the Suffolk County Legislature,

         9       thereafter elected to a full term as a Suffolk

        10       County District Court judge and has sat and

        11       presided over numerous trials over the last

        12       three years that he's been a Suffolk County

        13       District Court judge.

        14                      It takes a very special person to

        15       be able to sit in judgment upon his peers.  Dick

        16       Klein, quite frankly, is that kind of a special

        17       person.

        18                      I can remember in law school in

        19       studying various comparative law -- laws, that

        20       Germany, before World War II, had special

        21       education just for judges.  Like England which

        22       divides barristers and solicitors into two

        23       classifications, Germany at the time divided











                                                             
10103

         1       lawyers and judges and you studied to actually

         2       be a judge and that's the only thing that you

         3       did.  You sat in judgment.

         4                      While I'm not advocating that in

         5       this country, I can't help but thinking that if,

         6       indeed, this was our system, then Dick Klein

         7       certainly would have studied to be a judge.  He

         8       is very good at it.  He is very evenhanded at

         9       it.  He operates an efficient and efficacious -

        10       efficaciously run courtroom, and if there's

        11       anything that the recent televised trials have

        12       certainly known and that is that Perry Mason,

        13       indeed, was fiction and the ability to run a

        14       courtroom and to run a courtroom fairly and to

        15       sit in judgment upon fellow men is, indeed, a

        16       highly trained skill, and I'm proud to say that

        17       the nominee before this body at this moment,

        18       Richard Martin Klein, is just such a person, has

        19       aptly and amply proven that over the years and I

        20       commend the Governor sincerely for his

        21       nomination on the floor this day.

        22                      And since he is no longer my

        23       constituent but that of Senator Marcellino, Mr.











                                                             
10104

         1       President, I most respectfully would yield the

         2       floor to Senator Marcellino.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino on the nomination.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I rise to second the nomination

         8       of Richard Martin Klein to the Court of Claims.

         9       Mr. Klein, Judge Klein, is well known in the

        10       judicial community, if you will, for lack of a

        11       better word.  He's -- his honesty, his

        12       integrity, his intelligence are unquestioned.

        13       If you go into the area and you talk to judges

        14       in the area, they know Mr. Klein.  They know

        15       Judge Klein well.  He is well spoken of by

        16       attorneys on both sides, both prosecutors and

        17       the defending attorneys.  He treats his people

        18       who come before him with respect and dignity and

        19       which is all you can ask of a judge and all that

        20       should be considered.

        21                      With pleasure, I second the

        22       nomination.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there











                                                             
10105

         1       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         2       nomination?

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Hearing none, the question is on

         5       the confirmation of Richard Martin Klein of

         6       Huntington, New York, to the position of judge

         7       of the New York State Court of Claims.  All

         8       those in favor signify by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye".)

        10                      Opposed, nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The nominee is unanimously

        13       confirmed.  We're very pleased to have Richard

        14       Martin Klein with us, his wife Ceceil, daughter

        15       Stephanie and son Randy in the chamber to your

        16       left.

        17                      Congratulations on your

        18       appointment.  Good luck.

        19                      (Applause.)

        20                      The Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

        22       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

        23       following nomination:  Thomas J. McNamara of











                                                             
10106

         1       Ballston Spa, New York State Court of Claims.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Lack.

         4                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      I rise to move the nomination of

         7       Thomas J. McNamara of Ballston Spa to be a judge

         8       to the New York State Court of Claims.

         9                      Mr. McNamara was examined by the

        10       Governor's screening committee, found qualified,

        11       has been nominated by the Governor, has been

        12       examined by the staff of the Judiciary

        13       Committee, was found qualified.  The nomination

        14       was considered by the committee this morning.

        15       Mr. McNamara was unanimously nominated and

        16       confirmed by the committee to come to the floor

        17       this morning.

        18                      Mr. President, I most

        19       respectfully would yield the floor to the

        20       Majority Leader, Senator Bruno, for purposes of

        21       seconding.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Bruno on the nomination.











                                                             
10107

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you,

         2       Senator Lack, and thank you, Mr. President.

         3                      Mr. President, I am honored and

         4       privileged to be on my feet in support of Thomas

         5       McNamara.  He has served with great distinction

         6       in his town of Ballston Spa, presently as town

         7       attorney, currently a partner in Trieble,

         8       McNamara and Rider.  Most important, last year,

         9       served as Assistant District Attorney, served on

        10       many panels with great distinction, dedicating

        11       himself to the support of the public.

        12                      He's here with his wife Mary

        13       Jane, and I want to just welcome him here and

        14       indicate how proud I am that such a qualified

        15       individual would be here from the 43rd

        16       Senatorial District prepared to take on the

        17       responsibilities of representing a larger

        18       constituency.

        19                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        21       any other speaker on the nomination?

        22                      Senator Farley on the nomination.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'm pleased to











                                                             
10108

         1       rise to support the nomination of Tom McNamara,

         2       an outstanding citizen of his community and

         3       somebody that has really participated and become

         4       an outstanding -- who will become an outstanding

         5       judge.

         6                      Let me just say something about

         7       him.  He's been president of the board of

         8       education for Ballston Spa, a community in

         9       Saratoga County.  He was treasurer of the bar

        10       association, secretary and president of the

        11       Saratoga Bar Association.  He was president of

        12       Ballston Spa Rotary Club, active in his parish

        13       and let me just say this, that he is a person

        14       that has come from a small community, has served

        15       his county and his community well, not only as

        16       an assistant district attorney but in private

        17       practice.  He's -- comes from the finest school

        18       in this area, the State University of New York

        19       at Albany.  I did not have him as a student.

        20       Graduate of Albany Law School, but Tom McNamara

        21       will be an outstanding judge, and it is with

        22       enthusiasm that I support his nomination.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The











                                                             
10109

         1       question is on the nomination of Thomas J.

         2       McNamara of Ballston Spa to the position of

         3       judge of the New York State Court of Claims.

         4       All those in favor of the nomination signify by

         5       saying aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      Opposed, nay.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The nominee is unanimously

        10       confirmed.

        11                      We're happy to have Judge

        12       McNamara in the chamber with us.  He's to your

        13       left, along with his wife Mary Jane, his son

        14       Michael and his wife Mary, their friends David

        15       Steenberg, Mark Rider and Marrietta Smith and

        16       the rest of Ballston Spa in the chamber to the

        17       left.

        18                      Congratulations, Judge.  Good

        19       luck.

        20                      (Applause.)

        21                      The Secretary will read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

        23       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the











                                                             
10110

         1       following nomination:  William A. Wetzel of

         2       Briarcliff Manor, New York State Court of

         3       Claims.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Lack.

         6                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      I rise once again to move the

         9       nomination of Thomas J. McNamara -- Wetzel,

        10       sorry -- of Briarcliff Manor to be a judge of

        11       the New York State Court of Claims.

        12                      Mr. Wetzel also has been examined

        13       and found qualified by the screening committee,

        14       has been nominated by the Governor, has been

        15       examined by the staff of the Senate Judiciary

        16       Committee and found qualified in all respects.

        17       He appeared earlier this morning before a

        18       meeting of the committee, was unanimously moved

        19       by the committee to the floor, and I would yield

        20       at this time to my colleague to my immediate

        21       left, Senator Nicholas Spano.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Spano on the confirmation.











                                                             
10111

         1                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you very

         2       much, Mr. President.

         3                      As Senator Farley mentioned,

         4       Judge McNamara, he is from a small community.

         5       Bill Wetzel is from a small community also, a

         6       bit south of me in a small community called the

         7       county of Westchester, and it's my pleasure to

         8       stand and to second Bill Wetzel's nomination

         9       today.

        10                      When you look at his resume and

        11       you look at his background, his years of

        12       experience as an attorney, you will find that he

        13       is uniquely qualified, a great appointment for

        14       the Governor.  He continues to serve as an

        15       arbitrator, has the experience of serving as a

        16       village trustee.  He was deputy mayor and a

        17       mayor and knows firsthand the problems that we

        18       all face and has got the unique sensitivities

        19       that he will need to be a fair judge and a

        20       hard-working judge.

        21                      It's my pleasure, Mr. President,

        22       to second the nomination of Bill Wetzel and to

        23       urge all the members to enthusiastically support











                                                             
10112

         1       his appointment.

         2                      Thank you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         4       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         5       nomination?

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      Hearing none, the question is on

         8       the nomination of William A. Wetzel of Briar

         9       cliff Manor to be a judge of the New York State

        10       Court of Claims.  All those in favor of the

        11       nomination signify by saying aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye".)

        13                      Opposed, nay.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      The nominee is unanimously

        16       confirmed.

        17                      We're happy to have Judge William

        18       Wetzel with us, along with his wife Patricia,

        19       who are in the gallery above you.

        20                      Judge Wetzel, congratulations and

        21       good luck.

        22                      (Applause.)

        23                      The Secretary will read.











                                                             
10113

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         2       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         3       following nomination:  Colleen McMahon of

         4       Bronxville, New York State Court of Claims.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Lack.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      Very proudly rise to move the

        10       nomination of Colleen McMahon as a judge of the

        11       New York State Court of Claims.

        12                      Not too long ago, every member in

        13       this chamber unanimously voted for a bill that I

        14       don't think a year ago any of us thought would

        15       ever come to the floor of this house, a bill to

        16       repeal all jury exemptions in the state of New

        17       York.

        18                      It's very fitting that today we

        19       move the nomination of Colleen McMahon because

        20       she is the chair of the Jury Project that was

        21       established by the chief judge to examine this

        22       and many other questions with respect to jury

        23       reform, and I should say at the outset, while











                                                             
10114

         1       I'm very proud of the achievements of this house

         2       in leading the way and passing the enactment to

         3       repeal jury exemptions, it's really only the

         4       beginning of a whole series of reforms that Ms.

         5       McMahon outlined in her capacity as chair of the

         6       Jury Project, having virtually worked on it six

         7       months full time and in effect, almost taking a

         8       leave of absence from Paul, Weiss to do so, and

         9       it's apt this morning that we're here to move

        10       her nomination, because just yesterday the

        11       Assembly, by a vote of 142 to 2, also passed a

        12       bill and will now go to the desk, the Governor's

        13       desk, and the Governor has indicated that he

        14       will sign it, and shortly there will be no jury

        15       exemptions in this state and over 1,200,000

        16       people will be added to the jury rolls, ensuring

        17       a fair and impartial trial and a trial by a jury

        18       of his or her peers.

        19                      Colleen McMahon wants to go into

        20       public service and to serve full time to become

        21       a judge of the New York State Court of Claims.

        22       She is superbly qualified for that.  I won't go

        23       into all her bona fides on her resume because my











                                                             
10115

         1       colleague, Nick Spano who is next to me, since

         2       this is Westchester Day on the floor of the

         3       Senate, will certainly be doing that.  I can

         4       just tell you that I am very grateful that she

         5       is choosing to become a judge and become part of

         6       our judicial system and she will do a wonderful

         7       job on the New York State Court of Claims.

         8                      And Colleen, once again, I thank

         9       you publicly for showing us the way to begin a

        10       long list of what I -- hopefully will be

        11       complete jury reform in the state of New York.

        12                      So thank you very much and

        13       congratulations to you.

        14                      Mr. President, I would once again

        15       yield to my colleague to my immediate left,

        16       Senator Spano.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Spano on the nomination.

        19                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you very

        20       much, Mr. President.

        21                      As was mentioned by Senator Lack,

        22       Colleen McMahon has a long list of credentials

        23       that will impress all that I will take a minute











                                                             
10116

         1       to read them, starting not only from local

         2       activities in the village of Bronxville, but

         3       have shown that she has distinguished herself in

         4       the profession, not only with the work that was

         5       done in the Jury Project that Senator Lack had

         6       mentioned, but also her involvement with the

         7       Committee for Modern Courts, the studies that

         8       she has done on youth crime and violence and

         9       reform of the juvenile justice system.

        10                      She has continued to be an

        11       outstanding litigator with Paul, Weiss, the firm

        12       Paul, Weiss in the City, and I'm glad that she

        13       is before us today.

        14                      She's also joined by her son

        15       Patrick who got a kick out of getting on TV

        16       earlier today and I'm glad just to say to

        17       Colleen McMahon that it's my pleasure to welcome

        18       you here today and, Patrick, this is a proud day

        19       for you to witness this of your mom.  You also

        20       had your gavel so you have a head start as well

        21       and a great future.

        22                      Colleen, it's my pleasure to

        23       second your nomination to the Court of Claims.











                                                             
10117

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         2       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         3       nomination?

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      Hearing none, the question is on

         6       the nomination of Colleen McMahon of Bronxville

         7       to the position of Judge of the New York State

         8       Court of Claims.  All those in favor signify by

         9       saying aye.

        10                      (Response of "Aye".)

        11                      Opposed, nay.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      The nominee is unanimously

        14       confirmed.

        15                      Judge McMahon is in the chamber,

        16       as Senator Spano indicated, with her son

        17       Patrick.  We welcome you.  Good luck.

        18       Congratulations.

        19                      (Applause.)

        20                      The Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

        22       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

        23       following nomination:  Mark Samuel Perla of











                                                             
10118

         1       Tonawanda, Erie County Court Judge.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Lack.

         4                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      I rise to move the nomination of

         7       Mark Samuel Perla of Tonawanda as an Erie County

         8       Court Judge.

         9                      Judge Perla has been found well

        10       qualified by the screening committee, has been

        11       nominated by the Governor.  His resume has been

        12       reviewed by the staff of the Senate Judiciary

        13       Committee.  He appeared before the committee

        14       this morning and was unanimously moved to the

        15       floor for confirmation at this time and I would

        16       most respectfully, Mr. President, yield to

        17       Senator Volker for purposes of seconding.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Volker on the nomination.

        20                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        21       once again, I'd like to also commend the

        22       Governor for the various nominations this

        23       morning as Senator Lack has said and others.











                                                             
10119

         1                      The quality and competence of the

         2       judges that have been submitted to us has been

         3       absolutely superb and Mark Perla who is to

         4       replace, by the way, the spot that was held by

         5       Judge Rose LaMendola who we confirmed here last

         6       week and elevated to the Supreme Court is

         7       without question.  Certainly he is one of the

         8       top lawyers in western New York, comes from a

         9       long family of attorneys.

        10                      He was an assistant attorney to

        11       then U.S. Attorney Dennis Vacco in the Western

        12       District for many years, in fact, ran the Civil

        13       Division for the Attorney General, in fact, has

        14       run it until the present, and he also was in the

        15       District Attorney's Office in Erie County for

        16       some years, one of the top attorneys in western

        17       New York and I know he will make an excellent

        18       judge.

        19                      But let me just say as he said

        20       and we said on several occasions and coming

        21       myself of a family of attorneys where my father

        22       and my grandfather were also attorneys, not only

        23       will he make himself and his family very proud











                                                             
10120

         1       of him as an excellent County Court judge but,

         2       of course, he will also make his father very

         3       proud of him, which I think is extremely

         4       important.

         5                      So, Mark, as a constituent of my

         6       colleague, Senator Rath, I would wish you the

         7       very best of luck, and I know that you'll have a

         8       long and valuable tenure as County Court judge.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        10       any other -- Senator Rath on the nomination.

        11                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      I rise to join my colleague,

        14       Senator Volker, in congratulating Mike Perla for

        15       the nomination that he has stood for and for the

        16       -- moving through the screening committee so

        17       expeditiously.  With the excellence of your

        18       resume and your background, Mark, I don't think

        19       there was any question but that you are highly

        20       qualified for the job and, as one of my

        21       constituents, of course, I am particularly proud

        22       to have you ascending to the bench in Erie

        23       County as judge -- as Senator Volker alluded to











                                                             
10121

         1       the fact, the long line of Perla tradition of

         2       lawyers, not only did they have a long

         3       tradition, but their firm's name being -- was it

         4       five Perlas in a row, Perla, Perla, Perla, Perla

         5       & Perla was always something of a great deal of

         6       interest around Erie County with all the Perla

         7       family working together and working well and

         8       highly respected in the bench and the bar in

         9       Erie County, and as Mark moves to this wonderful

        10       position -- he's a young man and I think it's

        11       very important to have young people with good

        12       experience, because you have many years of

        13       service and many years of experience that will

        14       not only serve Erie County but all of the state

        15       of New York.

        16                      Congratulations, Mark.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Maziarz on the nomination.

        19                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      I rise to second this nomination

        22       of Mark Perla.  Although I am not personally

        23       acquainted with Mr. Perla, having spoken to











                                                             
10122

         1       Senator Volker and Senator Rath, I'm very

         2       familiar with his long career in law,

         3       particularly in the area of prosecution, and

         4       just yesterday I happened to run into the new

         5       Attorney General, Dennis Vacco, and Mr. Vacco

         6       spoke very highly of Mr. Perla's capabilities in

         7       the field of law and I think he'll make a fine

         8       judge for Erie County Court, and also he's from

         9       the town of Tonawanda which Senator Lack

        10       continuously mispronounces, and I'm from North

        11       Tonawanda which is right next door, and since he

        12       is my neighbor, he can't be all that bad a

        13       person, and I have talked to a good friend of

        14       mine -- excuse me, Mr. President?  Did you -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Maziarz, you have the floor.

        17                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I talked to a

        18       good friend of mine, an assistant district

        19       attorney in Niagara County, Ron Winter, who told

        20       me that Mr. Perla is not only a fine lawyer, but

        21       he is also a great Buffalo Bills fan and being a

        22       Bills fan, he certainly must be an excellent

        23       person and I heartily second his nomination.











                                                             
10123

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         2       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         3       nomination?

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      Hearing none, the question is on

         6       the nomination of Mark Samuel Perla of

         7       Tonawanda, New York to the position of Erie

         8       County Court Judge.  All those in favor of the

         9       nomination, signify by saying aye.

        10                      (Response of "Aye".)

        11                      Opposed, nay.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      The nominee is unanimously

        14       confirmed.

        15                      We're very happy to have Mark

        16       Perla in the chamber, along with his wife

        17       Marilyn, who are seated in the gallery to your

        18       left.

        19                      Judge, congratulations and good

        20       luck.

        21                      (Applause.)

        22                      The Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,











                                                             
10124

         1       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         2       following nomination:  James C. Tormey III of

         3       Syracuse, Justice of the Supreme Court for the

         4       Fifth Judicial District.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Lack.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      I rise to move the nomination of

        10       James C. Tormey III for Justice of the Supreme

        11       Court for the Fifth Judicial District.  He has

        12       been examined by the Governor's screening

        13       committee, nominated by the Governor, examined

        14       by the staff of the Judiciary Committee,

        15       unanimously moved from -- as a result of the

        16       committee meeting this morning to the floor of

        17       the Senate today, and I would proudly yield to

        18       Senator DeFrancisco for purposes of a second.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       DeFrancisco on the nomination.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I'm very

        22       proud to be here today to second the nomination

        23       of Judge Jim Tormey to be elevated to the











                                                             
10125

         1       Supreme Court of the state of New York.

         2                      I've known Jim and his wife Sue

         3       for about 20 years.  He served about ten of

         4       those years with the county legislature and

         5       served with distinction in that capacity.

         6       Thereafter, he was elected to the City Court

         7       bench, one of the most active benches in the

         8       state and handled many, many criminal cases, and

         9       I can personally attest to the fact that he

        10       handled those cases both fairly and justly for

        11       all parties involved, whether it be the

        12       defendant, the victim, and treated lawyers the

        13       way they should be treated with respect but

        14       firmly when the need arose.

        15                      The family's commitment to

        16       community service, I could go on forever, but

        17       both of them -- both Sue and Jim are constantly

        18       involved in youth activities and they have two

        19       beautiful, young children and they share their

        20       time with many other children to provide that

        21       start that everyone needs to have.

        22                      You know, it's -- the thing that

        23       I think is most important is that oftentimes we











                                                             
10126

         1       honor people and they get ascended to the bench

         2       who are from large law firms with much more

         3       substantial clients.  Jim has gone through the

         4       private practice with a small firm and he

         5       understands what it is to practice as a small

         6       practitioner.  The cases may not be of the same

         7       dollar value as some of the large firms, but

         8       they're just as important for those people who

         9       appear before a court, and it's his sense of

        10       fairness and his treatment of the little guy

        11       that I think is going to be extremely important

        12       to our community.

        13                      So I'm very proud for all of

        14       those reasons to be here to second the

        15       nomination of Supreme Court Judge James Tormey

        16       III.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        18       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        19       nomination?

        20                      Senator Dollinger.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        22       President, I'll be very brief.  I seconded in

        23       the Judiciary Committee Senator DeFrancisco's











                                                             
10127

         1       comments about the importance of a small firm

         2       practice and the perspective that that gives a

         3       future jurist.

         4                      I'd also comment just to add one

         5       other comment, Mr. President, as I said in the

         6       Judiciary Committee; I can't remember when I

         7       voted for so many Republican conservatives in

         8       the last two weeks, more so than I think in my

         9       entire life, but I extend my public commendation

        10       to Governor Pataki who is continuing the list of

        11       quality candidates for the judiciary and that -

        12       their one consistent theme, their one consistent

        13       attribute has been quality.  This is a candidate

        14       who continues that list of quality candidates

        15       for the bench.

        16                      I commend Judge Tormey.  I wish

        17       him the best as I do all the other candidates

        18       that have been confirmed, and I'd just add a

        19       commendation to the chair of the Judiciary

        20       Committee who's done a great job putting these

        21       nominees through.

        22                      Thank you.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there











                                                             
10128

         1       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         2       nomination?

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Hearing none, the question is on

         5       the nomination of James C. Tormey III of

         6       Syracuse, New York, to the position of Justice

         7       of the Supreme Court for the Fifth Judicial

         8       District.  All those in favor of the nomination

         9       signify by saying aye.

        10                      (Response of "Aye".)

        11                      Opposed, nay.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      The nominee is unanimously

        14       confirmed.

        15                      We're very pleased to have Judge

        16       Tormey in the chamber with us, along with his

        17       wife Susan, his son Andrew and daughter Colleen.

        18                      Judge, congratulations and good

        19       luck.

        20                      (Applause.)

        21                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        22       Velella.

        23                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10129

         1       can we go to the controversial calendar regular

         2       order now?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the controversial calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 30,

         6       Calendar Number 1276, by Senator Larkin, Senate

         7       Print 3869-B, an act to amend the Agriculture

         8       and Markets Law, in relation to penalties for

         9       mistreated animals.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Larkin, an explanation of the bill has been

        13       asked for by the Deputy Minority Leader, Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      Senator Paterson, this bill

        18       allows for the removal of mistreated animals

        19       from the custody of their abuser and provides

        20       for the adoption or sale of the animals after

        21       they have been rehabilitated.

        22                      The bill further provides that

        23       the animals shall be forfeited only following a











                                                             
10130

         1       hearing.  Key point here is that this bill does

         2       not permit the sale of dogs or cats by the

         3       Humane Society to institutions for testing and

         4       lab work.

         5                      Senator Paterson, one other

         6       thing.  I would like to take -- he's not in the

         7       chamber, I don't know where he's hiding, but I

         8       wanted to thank personally Senator Onorato who

         9       did a lot of work with us with the SPCA in New

        10       York City because when we were down on some of

        11       the points, George was very kind enough to bring

        12       in some of the players that he thought were

        13       essential and this bill has been worked out with

        14       them.  This meets all of their requirements.  It

        15       also answers a question that was used as a basis

        16       for the veto of Governor -- former Governor

        17       Cuomo.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        21       much, Senator Larkin.

        22                      You know, Senator Onorato is very

        23       shy and he wouldn't want to be here and have his











                                                             
10131

         1        -- be flattered to this extent.  He wouldn't

         2       want you all to take pictures of him, so he

         3       stepped outside the chamber for a moment when he

         4       knew that you would mention him.  I just have

         5       one question.  Under this bill -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Larkin, do you yield to a question from Senator

         8       Paterson?

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Senator yields.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Would it -

        14       would there be a risk by the adoption of this

        15       bill of diseased dogs and cats being used for

        16       scientific research?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We

        18       couldn't do it under this -- provisions of this

        19       bill.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        21       Senator.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
10132

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      SENATOR LACK:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Lack.

        12                      SENATOR LACK: (Inaudible.)

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        14       objection, Senator Lack will be recorded in the

        15       negative on Calendar Number 1276.

        16                      Senator Marchi will be also

        17       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

        18       1276.

        19                      Senator Tully will be recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1276.  Announce

        21       the results.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        23       the negative on Calendar 1276 are Senators Lack,











                                                             
10133

         1       Marchi and Tully.  Ayes -- also, Senator

         2       DiCarlo.  Also, Senator Padavan.  Ayes 45, nays

         3       5.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      The Secretary will continue to

         7       call the controversial calendar.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1293, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1297-A, an

        10       act to amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure

        11       Act, in relation to the statute of limitations.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Lay it aside,

        13       please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1297, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3093, an

        18       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        19       relation to the exclusion of illegal aliens.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 1297

        23       has been asked for by Senator Paterson.











                                                             
10134

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      Yesterday, we had considerable

         4       discussion relevant to illegal aliens taking

         5       advantage of various social programs.

         6       Specifically, we talked yesterday about health

         7       care, non-emergency health care.

         8                      This bill deals with public

         9       assistance, welfare, in particular, which are

        10       not mandated by federal law.  It permits -

        11       requires that Social Service agencies in this

        12       state determine whether or not an applicant

        13       complies with the requirements -- statutory

        14       requirements for public assistance such as, of

        15       course, being a citizen, lawfully admitted alien

        16       either on a permanent resident basis or

        17       temporary basis or any other person who is

        18       permitted to be in this country by federal law

        19       of which there are a number of categories.

        20                      We are reflecting specifically

        21       the recommendations of the U.S. Commission on

        22       Immigration Reform which I read to you yesterday

        23       where they say specifically that illegal aliens











                                                             
10135

         1       should not be eligible for any -- and I'm quot

         2       ing this -- "for any publicly-funded services or

         3       assistance except those made available on an

         4       emergency basis."

         5                      I also shared with the members a

         6       portion of the speech given by the President on

         7       May 6th of this year in which he specifically

         8       indicates denying illegal aliens benefits for

         9       public services or welfare.  That, again, is a

        10       direct quote.

        11                      So our initiative here is

        12       consistent with inputs and studies and

        13       recommendations that come from myriad sources.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If Senator

        17       Padavan would yield.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Padavan, do you yield to Senator Paterson?

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Senator yields.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I











                                                             
10136

         1       don't think that we need to go through the whole

         2       conversation yesterday.  I think that the issue

         3       was generally well discussed between yourself

         4       and Senator Espada and Senator Mendez and

         5       Senator Marchi, so we don't need to duplicate

         6       that discussion; wouldn't you agree?

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I would agree

         8       with you fully, and unless there's some specific

         9       questions that I can answer, I would be happy to

        10       proceed on that basis.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Paterson.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Just that it

        14       seems to me that we're duplicating Section 131

        15       of the Social -- Section 131 (k), rather, of the

        16       Social Services Law where what you're trying to

        17       accomplish in this legislation actually already

        18       exists.

        19                      As a matter of fact, the

        20       individual has to show this identification

        21       before they could receive the public service

        22       and, in addition, we now have finger-imaging,

        23       which we're incorporating into this system, so I











                                                             
10137

         1       really don't know why we need to go much further

         2       than that which already exists.

         3                      I do understand that when an

         4       issue is important and an individual feels that

         5       in spite of the fact that laws are on the books

         6       that we're -- the conduct is not following the

         7       law and this wouldn't be the first time we have,

         8       in a sense, restated the law to send a message

         9       about the importance of the issue, but other

        10       than that, it seems to me that the law is well

        11       spoken on this subject.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let me respond

        13       briefly, very briefly.

        14                      First, this bill has certain

        15       provisions in it that are not in Section 131

        16       (k), specifically the reporting provisions, but

        17       beyond that, let me share with you specific

        18       input from the welfare inspector general of the

        19       state of New York and the New York City

        20       Department of Social Services.

        21                      At one of a number of public

        22       hearings we had in the city of New York, Mr.

        23       Toro, whom I think you know, Elmer Toro,











                                                             
10138

         1       appeared before our committee and spent a

         2       considerable amount of time sharing with us in

         3       detail the fact of widespread fraud in our

         4       welfare system in which he outlined chapter and

         5       verse -- and his statements are in the reports

         6       that we prepared last year and this year.  He

         7       outlined in chapter and verse the methodology

         8       and the ways that people were getting into our

         9       social services system in a fraudulent fashion.

        10                      He was followed on that day by

        11       several representatives of the New York City

        12       Department of Social Services, and I asked them

        13       directly and again, this is a -- we have a

        14       transcript of that dialogue for your perusal, if

        15       you wish.  I asked them directly what the

        16       procedures were relevant to fraudulent

        17       applications on the part of illegal immigrants

        18       in our welfare system, and they said,  "Well, we

        19       comply with the law, 131 (k) and we do this and

        20       we do that."  My next question is "How many

        21       persons" -- you have heard Mr. Toro say

        22       widespread welfare fraud, thousands of people

        23       getting in the system, costing us millions of











                                                             
10139

         1       dollars, "How many people last year did you

         2       identify in this category?"  The answer was

         3       none, because in the city of New York we have

         4       something known as Executive Order 124 which

         5       literally precludes the intake person from even

         6       making an inquiry, nevertheless without seeking

         7       the support of some higher up supervisor -- I'll

         8       wait until you confer with your staff and finish

         9       my answer.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  So what I'm

        13       telling you, Senator, is that while 131 (k) is

        14       on the books in the city of New York, in

        15       particular, it's virtually, if not specifically,

        16       entirely ignored, and as far as the number of

        17       persons who are coming into that system -- and

        18       we have specific data, estimates provided to us

        19       by the state division of social services as to

        20       the magnitude of that problem.  We're not

        21       talking about small sums, we're talking about

        22       millions and millions of dollars which I might

        23       add again, to repeat what I said yesterday,











                                                             
10140

         1       hurts most of all those individuals legitimate

         2       ly -- both immigrants and citizens, legitimately

         3       entitled to social services.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         7       Senator, if you would continue to yield.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  At the point

        10       that individuals are suffering and are now in

        11       great need and we are compelled to treat them

        12       even if they are illegal aliens, does not this

        13       legislation put some people in the position of

        14       not even reaching out to an agency only to find

        15       later on that they become bad debt and charity

        16       cases or so severely impaired by illness that we

        17       are, in a sense, forced to treat them?

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I don't -- when

        19       you said "treat them", you're talking about

        20       health care?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Health care

        22       situations, yes.

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Again, we











                                                             
10141

         1       discussed that at great length yesterday.

         2       Emergency medical health care is required by

         3       federal law to be provided by the state,

         4       parenthetically, may I say, at our total

         5       expense.  We had no compensation from the

         6       federal government for it, but nevertheless, it

         7       is mandated.  So someone who is in need of

         8       health care in the manner you just described

         9       would be entitled to it and would receive it.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  And my

        11       question, Senator, is are we, in effect, by

        12       creating a situation where our social service

        13       agencies -- in other words, the way we have a

        14       law now, the individual can actually withdraw

        15       their application once it becomes clear that

        16       they're being referred to INS or they're being

        17       referred to the consulate if they're a visitor

        18       or they're being referred to some other agency,

        19       what I'm saying, if we put them in the position

        20       where we're turning the workers into INS agents,

        21       do you think there would be a significant number

        22       of individuals who would eschew the opportunity

        23       to seek this type of assistance only to find out











                                                             
10142

         1       later that they become those medical cases that

         2       we are actually talking about?

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, your

         4       question is, forgive me for saying this,

         5       somewhat ambiguous.  These are people in this

         6       country in violation of federal law.  They are

         7       law breakers.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No, I

         9       understand that, Senator.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  To quote the

        11       President, "While we are a nation of immigrants,

        12       we are also a nation of laws", and if someone

        13       violates the law coming into this country in a

        14       myriad of ways, they are doing so.  Read

        15       yesterday's New York Times that Senator Marchi

        16       provided for us in terms of highlighting how

        17       they're coming in from all over the world,

        18       coming in by plane, by boat, across the border

        19       from Canada, across the St. Lawrence in boats,

        20       being put on buses, sent down to New York City,

        21       being provided for a few hundred dollars a

        22       complete set of fraudulent documents and getting

        23       in our social service system.  That is a fact.











                                                             
10143

         1                      There is nothing that I'm saying

         2       to you that is not verifiable in a variety of

         3       ways, but in the city of New York, we turn a

         4       blind eye to that illegality, and these

         5       individuals are getting into our system, and

         6       again I quote the welfare inspector general and

         7       the state Department of Social Services who tell

         8       us chapter and verse the estimates of costs

         9       associated with that illegality.

        10                      So, Senator, I don't know what

        11       you're asking me, unless you're saying that even

        12       though that person is here illegally, violating

        13       our laws, federal and state laws, we should

        14       provide social services.  If you're saying that,

        15       then we really don't have a basis for dialogue.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I'm

        17       actually saying the same thing you're saying.

        18                      I agree with you and I understand

        19       what you're saying about individuals who are

        20       here illegally, who are, in a sense, trying to

        21       manipulate and take advantage of the system and

        22       you were -- it was a good point that you made

        23       that it probably, in many respects, hurts others











                                                             
10144

         1       who legitimately are citizens who need social

         2       services, but what I'm saying to you -- and let

         3       me try to be clear since we're quoting great

         4       Democrats today; you quoted the President's

         5       speech on May 6, I want to quote Senator Pedro

         6       Espada, his comments on June 14th right here in

         7       the chamber yesterday, when he said that often

         8       the children of illegal aliens who are citizens

         9       of this country won't get to the medical

        10       services they need because the parents are

        11       afraid to go near the social services for fear

        12       that they'll be caught.

        13                      So, in other words, what I'm

        14       saying to you, Senator Padavan, is I'm not

        15       trying to stand here and make a case for people

        16       who are acting illegally.  What I'm trying to do

        17       is to -- to amplify the need beyond that need

        18       where an individual is in a serious medical

        19       condition and even you said that we have to

        20       treat those cases.  Cases where it's a life

        21       threatening illness, we treat them, in a sense

        22       as bad debt and charity cases in our hospitals.

        23                      What I'm saying to you is there











                                                             
10145

         1       is kind of an ancillary application to something

         2       that we both agree on -- agree upon and that is

         3       those individuals who, but for the fact that

         4       they might seek this other assistance, may wind

         5       up in that same situation.

         6                      Now, it is probably something

         7       that you would regard as a stretch, but I'm

         8       saying that what Senator Espada did yesterday

         9       was he documented cases where it actually

        10       happens.  And so what I'm saying to you is are

        11       we going to be that strict?  Are we going to set

        12       a standard that is that stern that we are going

        13       to possibly lose those individuals who are in

        14       need of health care; and before you answer, let

        15       me just assure you that under the law, you are

        16       absolutely right, but what I'm talking to you

        17       about is not necessarily the application of the

        18       law, but the reality of its ramifications.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let me -- let

        20       me answer the question in this fashion.  First,

        21       I think this country has demonstrated

        22       compassion, perhaps more than some would like

        23       but, nevertheless, there.  When we must conform











                                                             
10146

         1       the federal mandates that say if an individual

         2       shows up at a hospital, both public and private,

         3       is in need of emergency health care which is

         4       broadly defined, including a serious disease,

         5       such as TB or anything else, that person will

         6       receive that health care without question, the

         7       full cost to the state, the locality involved.

         8       That is compassion.

         9                      Federal law says that if a child

        10       shows up at a public school irrespective of how

        11       that child is in this country, there shall be

        12       not even a question asked relevant to their

        13       legal status.  That is compassion, and all the

        14       way down the list of every service that we have

        15       to provide, federal mandates require that we

        16       demonstrate, as you, I think, are saying,

        17       indirectly or directly, compassion, but there is

        18       a limit.

        19                      Now, let me repeat what -- or

        20       give you a more specific fact.  Inspector

        21       General Toro informed our committee, quote,

        22       "According to statistical data recently received

        23       from the New York State Department of Social











                                                             
10147

         1       Services, a staggering $68,832,000 was expended

         2       for emergency medical services for undocumented

         3       aliens, illegal aliens ineligible for public

         4       assistance for three years.  The costs covered

         5       the period from August '92 through July '93.

         6       Approximately 63 million of the total figure was

         7       expended in New York City."

         8                      Now, Senator, there's compassion

         9       for you.  That's a lot of money, and we're

        10       spending it.  A lot of it is being spent

        11       consistent with federal law, a lot of it is not,

        12       because those individuals who have gotten into

        13       the system in a fraudulent way should not be the

        14       beneficiaries of that type of compassion.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Paterson.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I want to

        18       thank Senator Padavan, Mr. President, for his

        19       answers.

        20                      Mr. President, on the bill.

        21       Senator Padavan is right, this is a country of

        22       compassion.  This is a country that has

        23       demonstrated compassion and yet, Mr. President,











                                                             
10148

         1       it's exactly my fear that we are beginning to

         2       lose that element that sets us apart from other

         3       countries in the world that caused me to ask the

         4       questions in the first place, if we're going to

         5       start promulgating laws that are going to turn

         6       our teachers, our social service providers and

         7       our medical health care professionals into

         8       immigration and naturalization agents, and so I

         9       think in this particular circumstance, that

        10       Senator Padavan is right if he says that the

        11       current law, Section 131 (k) of the Social

        12       Services Law is not actually working to the -

        13       to a point where we're actually catching illegal

        14       aliens, but I think that we are a system and we

        15       also have laws.  That may relate to how our

        16       system operates, and I think that relates to

        17       where we may need to make changes in our -- our

        18       immigration detection and that kind of thing.

        19                      What I think we're doing is we're

        20       taking this situation into a lot of different

        21       areas where it really doesn't belong, in a

        22       sense, turning all issues and all procedures

        23       into some kind of a reflection on individual's











                                                             
10149

         1       immigration status which, I think, is going to

         2       unfairly stigmatize a lot of Americans, and

         3       that's what Senator Padavan was saying, if

         4       illegal aliens come in and they take advantage

         5       of our social services, that they are going to,

         6       in a sense, impede the progress of citizens of

         7       this country.

         8                      What I'm saying is that some of

         9       these laws are also going to impede the progress

        10       of Americans who happen to be either foreign

        11       born or demonstrate some characteristic that

        12       makes it clear that at some point they were from

        13       a foreign land, and I don't want those

        14       individuals to be walking around, literally in a

        15       sense being checked at every point even when

        16       they need help as if we were living in 1960s

        17       Johannesburg.  And so that's really my objection

        18       to the legislation.

        19                      I think the point of it is well

        20       made and I think that Senator Padavan raises an

        21       important issue when he says that the federal

        22       government has caused the state to have to pick

        23       up a lot of these costs.  I'm just saying that











                                                             
10150

         1       right now I think that we are taking this

         2       legitimate problem that we have into a lot of

         3       areas of government where it really doesn't need

         4       to be focused.

         5                      Thank you.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Marchi.

         8                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

         9       to reiterate some of the considerations I

        10       advanced yesterday.  Hard facts, difficult and

        11       mistaken execution of the laws that we do have

        12       sometimes invoke a terrible prejudice on the

        13       very people that we all sympathize with, the

        14       person who is exposed to major difficulties, and

        15       I certainly respect the sentiments that Senator

        16       Paterson gave testimony to in his remarks, but

        17       it simply fails to deal with the -- with the

        18       circumstances of evasion and what it does even

        19       to those who are allegedly victimized by the

        20       policy that I co-sponsor with Senator Padavan.

        21                      I recall my experience in the

        22       hospital, the -- oh, if I can remember it right

        23       now, the name of it -- in Tel Aviv where people











                                                             
10151

         1       come across -- at that time there was a state of

         2       tension between Jordan and Israel, but they came

         3       across the Allenby Bridge or through the various

         4       points of access on a Wednesday afternoon and

         5       could go and get treatment, hospital operations,

         6       and then when the person was able to walk again

         7       and navigate, then they were escorted out of the

         8       country again.

         9                      This was an enlightened policy

        10       that they followed and it did not victimize

        11       people, and you have the problem of the -- of

        12       the person who comes in under the circumstances

        13       that Senator Padavan is addressing with really

        14       no solution at all.

        15                      This bill requires a 180-day wait

        16       before the effective date kicks in.  Hopefully,

        17       they may get some feeling, some reaction to this

        18       in places where immigration policy is

        19       formulated, but as I stated yesterday and I want

        20       to circulate -- one of the Senators asked me for

        21       the copy of the Times article where people

        22       really bleed themselves to death practically to

        23       get passage, elicit passage and then they lose











                                                             
10152

         1       all that money, because in some cases they are

         2       caught and those who have exploited them keep

         3       the money.

         4                      Then those that get here, I have

         5       a feeling that there's a built-in interest by

         6       people who support this system because it

         7       enables them to use slave labor.  The threat and

         8       the powerless circumstances, the tragic

         9       circumstances of the person who comes here un...

        10       illegally and then is working in a factory being

        11       paid substandard wages, living on the edge of

        12       the razor simply because any -- any -- anything

        13       they might do might invite the whistle blower.

        14       It's a form of human slavery, and unless we

        15       jettison poor public policy and proceed on a

        16       constructive basis as some countries have done,

        17       I feel that really there are no alternatives to

        18        -- to what is being proposed here.

        19                      It does address the question of

        20       dire need or persons who are in urgent need of

        21       medical treatment and it does say we will extend

        22       that assistance, but it's a terrible weapon and

        23       there are people who are in slavery in this











                                                             
10153

         1       country, in 1995 who are literally slaves as a

         2       result of this policy, because they're not in a

         3       position to even lift their arms to fend off the

         4       blows.  It's bad public policy and we ought to

         5       put an end to it.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Mendez.

         8                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

         9        -- even though I think -- I'm totally convinced

        10       that Senator Padavan is correct in his bill in

        11       wanting to deny all sorts of services to illegal

        12       aliens, I think that the way that he is going

        13       about it is in the wrong way.

        14                      The question of the -- the

        15       compassion that our nation has had through the

        16       years for the needy, it's not a question here.

        17       The question here, Mr. President, will be

        18       whether or not in this bill we would be

        19       resolving the issue of illegal aliens, that they

        20       should not be here and we all know it.  Illegal

        21       aliens shouldn't be here.

        22                      Now, I feel, Mr. President, that

        23       New York State is a part of a federal











                                                             
10154

         1       government, and immigration is a function of the

         2       federal government, and the question that I want

         3       to ask Senator Padavan, if he will yield -- Mr.

         4       President, will Senator Padavan yield for a

         5       question?

         6                      Mr. President -- Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Mendez.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Will Senator

        10       Padavan yield for a question?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Padavan, do you yield to Senator Mendez?  The

        13       Senator yields.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. -- Senator

        15       Padavan, you mentioned $68 million as a figure

        16       that you were given for the total cost of these

        17       services to the illegal aliens.  That's the

        18       figure that you cited.  I know I was given the

        19       figure of 300,000 illegal aliens in the entire

        20       country.  In fact, yesterday Senator Marchi

        21       mentioned -

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Excuse me,

        23       Senator.  Would you repeat that because I didn't











                                                             
10155

         1       hear you.

         2                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I will.  Senator

         3       Marchi mentioned yesterday that in the state of

         4       New York there are 75,000 illegal immigrants.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Coming in every

         6       year.

         7                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Every year.

         8       Let's talk on a yearly basis.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  We have over a

        10       half a million.

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes, but you

        12       mentioned the $68 million that you mentioned

        13       that are used, they are yearly expenditures as

        14       well, so let's take it one year at a time.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Sure.

        16                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Say in any one

        17       given year, there are 75,000 illegal aliens in

        18       New York State.  The figure that was given to

        19       you of $68 million for services, that boils down

        20       -- in health services, for example, that boils

        21       down to close to $1 million per illegal alien.

        22       There is something wrong in that figure and I

        23       will tell you why.  That is not -











                                                             
10156

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         2       will the Senator yield for just a minute?

         3                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Let me finish.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  In a

         5       moment.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes, I will, in

         7       a second.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  She will

         9       yield in a moment.

        10                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  So that 68- -

        11       so that figure probably includes -- the figure

        12       given to you by Health and Hospitals Corporation

        13       probably includes all those charges in Medicaid

        14       that are made by hospitals in the city of New

        15       York for people who do not have any health

        16       insurance.

        17                      Now, that bulk of people include

        18       the working poor American citizens and -- and

        19       those who are on public assistance, American

        20       citizens, which is, in fact, an inflated figure

        21       of medical costs that does not necessarily

        22       include all -- only those illegal aliens.

        23                      Senator Padavan.











                                                             
10157

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Padavan, Senator Mendez will now yield.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, I love

         4       you dearly, but your arithmetic, you got to go

         5       back to school.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I won't comment

         7       on that.  After we get out of the chamber, then

         8       I will comment on that privately to you.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right, all

        10       right, all right.  Senator, according to INS,

        11       conservatively -

        12                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I'm sorry?

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  According to

        14       the Immigration and Naturalization Service,

        15       conservatively, there are 510,000 illegal aliens

        16       in New York State, roughly 80 percent of them in

        17       New York City.  Now, that is a fact.  Senator

        18       Marchi -

        19                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator -

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Sh-h-h.  Bear

        21       with me for a moment.  Senator Marchi was

        22       talking about the number coming in every year,

        23       but they don't just come in and leave.  That











                                                             
10158

         1       figure of over a half a million is a cumulative

         2       figure as of, I think, 1993 when they provided

         3       us that information.

         4                      Okay.  Now, if you use -

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President,

         6       but the $68 million figure, is that a yearly -

         7       yearly expenditure?

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  On 500- -- on 40

        10       percent of 500,000 illegal aliens?

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Listen to me.

        12       The $68 million as reported to us by state

        13       division of social services is a figure expended

        14       in a particular year.  I think I quoted before

        15       the specific year they were talking about.  Even

        16       if you took that figure and divided it by the

        17       500,000, you would be talking like $100 a

        18       person.  I don't know where you got a million

        19       from, but not all of the half a million illegal

        20       aliens are on social services.  A percentage of

        21       them are, and the Department of Social Services

        22       has provided us with specific information as to

        23       what percentage and what the dollars are











                                                             
10159

         1       relevant to that population.  That is where they

         2       came up with the 68 million, specifically 63

         3       million in the city of New York where the bulk

         4       of it is.  I hope you got your arithmetic

         5       straight.

         6                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  $63 million on a

         7       yearly basis on 40 percent of whatever illegal

         8       aliens are in the city of New York.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  80 percent are

        10       in the city of New York.

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  80 percent.  So

        12       how much is that?

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  It's over

        14       400,000.

        15                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.  Okay.

        16       Okay.  In health care alone?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, in social

        18       services.  Health care -- I will give you health

        19       care.  I'll repeat from yesterday.  Health care

        20       portion, they estimate around 30 million.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Padavan,

        22       the reality is that figures that have been

        23       published in terms of the taxes paid by











                                                             
10160

         1       immigrants, legal immigrants and illegal aliens

         2       as well, the taxes that these individuals pay

         3       every year is $72 billion, and in terms of

         4       services that they use, they're only using 43

         5        -- around $43 billion a year, so we still have

         6       43- to 72 million.  Please, you're the good one

         7       in arithmetic.  We still have an excess of

         8       billions of dollars on a yearly basis that we're

         9       paying taxes for.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, if -

        11       Mr. President, if you're telling me that illegal

        12       aliens are providing the state of New York two

        13       billion, I think you said annually -- did you

        14       say two billion?

        15                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  I said, Senator

        16       Padavan, that on a yearly basis the documented

        17       as well as undocumented in the -- in the United

        18       States pay 72, I believe, billion dollars in

        19       taxes and I am also saying that nationally they

        20       use only 43 something or other billion dollars,

        21       so there is a -- a difference of over $20

        22       billion that the nation is receiving because

        23       they are paying taxes, but -- but, Senator











                                                             
10161

         1       Padavan, way and above that, what I really -

         2       and I know that you're right in one sense.

         3       Nobody has the right to be in our country

         4       illegally.  I completely am in agreement with

         5       you on that.

         6                      I differ from you in terms of the

         7       solution that you want to impose in New York

         8       State in your urgent desire, correctly so, of

         9       doing something about this problem.

        10                      I differ with you on that because

        11       the people that are responsible for the

        12       function, for controlling our borders are our

        13       government, our federal government, and then all

        14       of us, we don't believe in mandates.  Why should

        15       we at the local level impose hospitals, impose

        16       on Social Services agencies, impose upon them

        17       the verification of the status of people who go

        18       for services?  I think that is making little

        19       immigration offices everywhere throughout the

        20       state a burden on the existing employees, and we

        21       are allowing the federal government to get away

        22       legally with economic murder.

        23                      Don't you think that there will











                                                             
10162

         1       be -- Senator Padavan, don't you think that is

         2       reasonable to believe that all these places, the

         3       hospital, offices of economics, social services

         4       departments throughout the entire state, they

         5       will be becoming not only the city halls, but

         6       little federal immigration offices and we'll be

         7       burdening them with that.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No.  The answer

         9       to your question in regard to their becoming

        10       what you just described, I don't share at all.

        11                      I would like to ask you, Senator,

        12       when you get a chance, if you would look at

        13       Appendix 1 of our most recent report which

        14       confirms many of the things you just said.

        15       Immigrants in this state and in this nation

        16       provide a considerable amount of revenue, and I

        17       have outlined it right down the line -- as a

        18       matter of fact, in 1992, immigrants paid income

        19       taxes of $1.7 billion in New York State.  We

        20       have it by income range, tax revenue, percent

        21       foreign-born.

        22                      We, in this report, took almost

        23       six months in collecting data on the contribu











                                                             
10163

         1       tions that immigrants have made in terms of

         2       income taxes and other forms of revenues that

         3       flow into our coffers, so I have no problem at

         4       all in accepting that.

         5                      As a matter of fact, we spent, as

         6       I said, an awful lot of effort of putting it in

         7       here so people could read it, but let us not

         8       confuse that with the illegal immigrants that

         9       are addressed by this bill.  They're not paying

        10       income taxes.  The only tax they're probably

        11       paying is a sales tax because you can't avoid

        12       that.

        13                      Those who are getting into our

        14       social service system with fraudulent documents

        15        -- and I'm sure you won't disagree with me,

        16       because every day it seems we pick up the

        17       newspaper and we hear about people arrested for

        18       selling those documents and they're buying them

        19       for one reason, to get into the system.  Those

        20       people are not paying taxes.  Those are the ones

        21       that Mr. Toro and the state Department of Social

        22       Services provided us with the data as to what

        23       they are costing the state for which we are not











                                                             
10164

         1       getting any compensation neither from the

         2       individual nor from the federal government.

         3                      Now, your question was are our

         4       intake offices, whether it be Social Services or

         5       wherever, being required to do some checking?

         6       Yes, they are, but they're being required to do

         7       the checking for everybody.  Welfare fraud is a

         8       major issue in this state.

         9                      Now, with regard to immigrants,

        10       however, there's a little thing known as

        11       Executive Order 124 in the city of New York, and

        12       it says you won't ask them about immigration.

        13       You can ask them about anything you want that

        14       relates to their application, but you won't ask

        15       them about immigration.  We cannot tolerate

        16       that, and that's what this bill is all about.

        17                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Padavan

        18        -- Mr. President, as I said before -

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Mendez.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  -- I do know

        22       that the intentions of Senator Padavan with this

        23       bill are good intentions.  On the other hand, we











                                                             
10165

         1       also know that the way to hell is full of good

         2       intentions, and by that I mean an effort to

         3       resolve this issue that is really bothering

         4       every single person in New York State and

         5       nationally, he's proposing a solution that will

         6       not resolve the problem and could bring a lot of

         7       discrimination on other people that are

         8       legitimately American citizens either by birth

         9       or by -- or because they have become some -

        10       that afterwards.

        11                      So it is not the way.  Why should

        12       we except, as I said before, the federal

        13       government from discharging their function of

        14       dealing with the -- with who should be in the

        15       country and for how long, and I think that will

        16       be imposing extra work to the -- the offices

        17       throughout the state, and that is not -- that

        18       shouldn't be their function.

        19                      So, really, it's a misguided

        20       solution to an existing problem, and I hope that

        21       my colleagues do not support this bill.

        22                      Senator Padavan has done a lot of

        23       work on that.  He must go back to the drawing











                                                             
10166

         1       board and really try to find out more creative

         2       ways of finding a solution to this problem.  The

         3       whole basis in which this is -- this is done are

         4       premises that are wrong, wrong because they are

         5       based just on gender stereotypes as to who the

         6       immigrant is.

         7                      While I think that this bill has

         8       had plenty of discussion yesterday and today, I

         9       don't believe that we should beat a dead horse

        10       anymore.  I just want to ask my colleagues to

        11       consider very seriously voting against this

        12       measure.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        22       the results when tabulated.

        23                      The Chair recognizes Senator











                                                             
10167

         1       Leichter to explain his vote.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  To explain my

         3       vote.  I think I have made very clear my

         4       concerns about some of the legislation that

         5       Senator Padavan has advanced.  I don't see the

         6       problem as he does.  I'm a bit concerned about

         7       the motivation, but I must say I see no problem

         8       and nothing wrong in requiring verification by

         9       somebody who applies for public assistance that

        10       that person is really entitled to it, and if,

        11       among other matters that have to be verified as

        12       citizenship or the right to be in the country, I

        13       don't find that offensive.

        14                      We ask a person to identify where

        15       they live.  We certainly ask them to identify

        16       that they are -- that they qualify financially

        17       for the public assistance.  I have supported

        18       finger-imaging.  I don't find anything offensive

        19       in that.  I mean, I think if somebody applies

        20       for assistance from government, then government

        21       has a right and, in fact, an obligation to

        22       establish in a credible, reasonable manner that

        23       the person is entitled.











                                                             
10168

         1                      So I'm going to support the bill,

         2       but I just want to state again as I did in

         3       connection with the other bills, my concerns

         4       about the -- or the insinuation that really so

         5       many of our problems are being caused by illegal

         6       immigrants or legal immigrants who come here and

         7       are burdening the social service system.

         8                      I'm also somewhat concerned about

         9       language in this bill in Section 2 where it

        10       requires entities to provide all sorts of

        11       information without really being clear that -

        12       what is being referred to, but I think a good

        13       faith effort -- and I take this to be a good

        14       faith effort -- that people have to establish

        15       that they are entitled to public assistance, I

        16       have no problem with that.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative.

        19                      Senator Gold to explain his vote.

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  I would like

        21       the words of Senator Leichter attributed to me.

        22                      I vote yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10169

         1       Gold will be recorded in the affirmative.

         2       Announce the results.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar 1297 are Senators

         5       Abate, Connor, Markowitz, Mendez, Paterson and

         6       Smith.  Also, Senator Montgomery.  Ayes 45, nays

         7       7.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      The Secretary will continue to

        11       call the controversial calendar.

        12                      Senator Maltese, why do you

        13       rise?

        14                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        15       I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        16       negative on Calendar Number 176.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        18       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maltese

        19       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        20       Number 1276.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1322, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2458A, an

        23       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation











                                                             
10170

         1       to orders of protection.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Skelos, an explanation has been asked for on

         4       Calendar Number 1322.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         6       under the bill, the court may, as a condition of

         7       relief in an order of protection, prohibit the

         8       respondent from transferring, encumbering or

         9       otherwise disposing of property otherwise

        10       mutually owned or leased.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Paterson.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        14       I think this bill is of very good intent and

        15       it's fine really, but do you think that by

        16       passing this legislation that we may actually

        17       inhibit courts, because since the courts have

        18       the power to effect this right now, whatever

        19       would be deemed left out of this legislation

        20       would be construed to be as intent on the part

        21       of the Legislature and now the courts might

        22       actually be barred from taking action that it

        23       otherwise could take right now?











                                                             
10171

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I don't believe

         2       that.  Really what we're trying to do is avoid

         3       the control that a person who perpetrates

         4       domestic violence against a spouse -- they do it

         5       many times to control the person by perhaps

         6       saying, "You can't use the car.  I'm going to

         7       transfer these assets, I'm going to take the

         8       keys," and really what we're looking to do is

         9       give the court at a critical point when they're

        10       going for an order of protection, a little bit

        11       more that they can do to protect the spouse that

        12       is being abused.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Now, Senator,

        14       if you would continue to yield.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Skelos, do you continue to yield?

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  There is

        18       concurrent jurisdiction here that the criminal

        19       court has, but I notice you haven't amended the

        20       Criminal Procedure Law so that the criminal

        21       court can, in a sense supervene the Family

        22       Court.  Is there a reason that you did not amend

        23       the Criminal Procedure Law to coincide with what











                                                             
10172

         1       you're trying to accomplish?

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  There's no

         3       reason for it.  It's a suggestion that we'll

         4       look at.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Oh.  All

         6       right.  Thank you very much, Senator.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1354, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5321, an

        19       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

        20       relation to period of limitation.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Maziarz, an explanation of Calendar Number 1354











                                                             
10173

         1       has been requested by the Deputy Minority

         2       Leader, Senator Paterson.

         3                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      Mr. President, this legislation

         6       eliminates the statute of limitations for

         7       prosecution of Class B violent felonies.

         8       Currently only a Class A felony has no statute

         9       of limitations.  Under present law, there is a

        10       five-year limitation within which charges must

        11       be filed against a person accused of a Class B

        12       felony.  These crimes are violent and horrible

        13       and should be prosecuted even if it takes six,

        14       seven years to solve the crime.

        15                      By way of further explanation,

        16       Mr. President, I want to say that there's a

        17       particular instance which was brought to my

        18       attention in the -- in the western New York area

        19       by an article that was written in the local

        20       Buffalo News about a serial rapist who has -

        21       who the local police feel has been attacking

        22       women since 1986.

        23                      I'll just read a little bit from











                                                             
10174

         1       this article, Mr. President, if I may.  "The

         2       serial rapist who attacked eight local women

         3       since 1986 has eluded not only an exhaustive

         4       dragnet by Buffalo and Amherst detectives but

         5       also prosecution for the first five rapes.  Why?

         6       A statute of limitations, an age old pillar of

         7       the criminal justice system.

         8                       "In the state of New York a

         9       statute of limitations means charges must be

        10       filed within five years of any felony crime

        11       except murder which has no restrictions, so even

        12       if the man is caught he will not face charges on

        13       five attacks between June of 1986 and August of

        14       1989, three in Buffalo and one each in Hamburg

        15       and Amherst.  'We have but five calendar years

        16       from the date of the offense to file charges,'

        17       explained Frank J. Clark III, Erie County's

        18       First Deputy District Attorney.  'If it extends

        19       beyond that it's dead.'"

        20                      I would just add, Mr. President,

        21       that the Niagara County Legislature has

        22       unanimously gone on record and sent me a

        23       resolution requesting this Legislature to adopt











                                                             
10175

         1       this bill.

         2                      Senator?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       if Senator Maziarz will yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Maziarz, do you yield?

         9                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, I will.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       yields.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        13       Maziarz, some of the classifications are

        14       certainly open to reinterpretation.  I

        15       appreciate that you're trying to do that in this

        16       legislation, but usually the delineation between

        17       the Class A and Class B felonies was the fact

        18       that we had no statute of limitations for Class

        19       A felonies.  So, in other words, if you're

        20       actually saying that a certain type of crime is

        21       so serious that we would want to continue to

        22       have the opportunity to prosecute an individual

        23       later down the road, wouldn't it also be











                                                             
10176

         1       possible to upgrade the classifications for that

         2       particular crime such as the case that you just

         3       described, where I guess five of the eight rapes

         4       cannot be prosecuted because they were committed

         5       between 1986 and 1989 and the statute has run on

         6       those particular cases?

         7                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, Senator.

         8       I think that that would also be another avenue,

         9       an additional avenue, to do it other than this

        10       piece of legislation, yes; and, by the way, the

        11       number has increased since -- since this article

        12       was written.  I believe it's up to seven now.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, I guess

        14       you're right, because now anything that occurred

        15       before, I guess, June 1990, is barred by the

        16       statute.

        17                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  You're

        19       absolutely right.

        20                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  But -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Maziarz, do you continue to yield?











                                                             
10177

         1                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, I do.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       continues to yield.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If we could

         5       define the statute of limitations and why we

         6       have statutes.  First of all, we don't want

         7       witnesses to become stale.  Secondly, there is

         8       an issue of making law enforcement react quickly

         9       to particular cases such that there is no

        10       deliberateness to try to make sure that the

        11       cases are disposed of as quickly as possible.

        12       We do have the problem in any prosecution of any

        13       type of crime that, if the perpetrator, the

        14       suspect is a fugitive from the law, it's -- this

        15       is a special kind of a situation because we're

        16       not even in the position to prosecute, but

        17       although there are a number of Class B felonies

        18       that carry with it some pretty serious

        19       ramifications to the victim, are you really

        20       prepared right now to, in a sense, toll the

        21       statute for all of the Class B definitions?

        22                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, I am,

        23       Senator.  That's the intent of this











                                                             
10178

         1       legislation.  If I could just respond to what

         2       you said that, you know, it was meant to put

         3       some cap on it, cap on prosecution, due to

         4       evidence becoming stale, and so forth.  I think

         5       that, you know, since these statutes were -

         6       were initiated and passed into law, you know,

         7       crime detection has -- has come a long way.

         8       Particularly today we see with DNA evidence,

         9       computerization of crime records, and so forth,

        10       so I think that, you know, the crime detection

        11       has also evolved in time, and I think that the

        12       laws have not.  They've remained stagnant.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        14       I thank Senator Maziarz, and on the bill.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Paterson, on the bill.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  This is a -

        18       this is a digital question, it really is, and

        19       yet it's a valid concern that Senator Maziarz

        20       raises.  I know that I discussed some time ago

        21       with Senator Volker the idea of tolling the

        22       statute of limitations in child sexual abuse

        23       cases, because in those situations often the











                                                             
10179

         1       perpetrator is a -- a custodial agent or some

         2       personnel from the school or the school bus

         3       company or something like that, or unfortunately

         4       even the parent and in those cases, out of fear

         5       or intimidation, the young person really can't

         6       bring or can't come forward, and so we would

         7       like to put them in the position of at least

         8       maturity before we start running the statute of

         9       limitations and although, I think Senator Volker

        10       and I agree that that probably is a good idea in

        11       those particular cases, the statute of limita

        12       tions is something that is really -- something

        13       that has been well founded in our law for a long

        14       period of time.

        15                      When an instance such as the one

        16       that Senator Maziarz raises occurs, I guess we

        17       really do have to think about it because it

        18       would be unseemly to actually find whoever this

        19       serial rapist is in western New York and then

        20       down the -- down the line be unable to prosecute

        21       them because of a bar to the statute, and so I'm

        22       really open on -- on this particular issue, Mr.

        23       President.











                                                             
10180

         1                      I would like you to recognize

         2       Senator Abate who would like to ask some

         3       questions on this.  But it is something that I

         4       think has good points on both sides of it.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Abate.

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Would

         8       Senator Maziarz yield to a question?

         9                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       yields.

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes, Senator.

        14       I'm sympathetic to this issue.  In fact, my name

        15       is on the bill extending the statute of

        16       limitations for child victims, victims of sexual

        17       assault and sexual abuse, and I supported that

        18       because there is a rationale.

        19                      My concern around this statute is

        20       so broad and it eliminates the statute of

        21       limitations for all "B" felony or violent felon

        22       cases.

        23                      Did you reach out to the district











                                                             
10181

         1       attorneys of the state?  What is the position of

         2       the Law Enforcement Council or the District

         3       Attorneys Association vis-a-vis this bill?

         4                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I didn't -- I

         5       did not reach out to the District Attorneys

         6       Association.  I did reach out to the three

         7       district attorneys in western New York and, in

         8       Niagara, Orleans and Erie County.

         9                      SENATOR ABATE:  And they support

        10       this bill?

        11                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, they do.

        12                      SENATOR ABATE:  I'm somewhat

        13       surprised.  I understand the situation in terms

        14       of rape and DNA, but in terms of the burglary

        15       and criminal possession of weapons and all the

        16        -- and the robberies, it would seem to me that

        17       district attorneys would have a problem with

        18       this because they need evidence brought to

        19       them.  They need witnesses to come forward as

        20       soon as possible.  They need to do a prompt

        21       investigation and, if there's no closure on the

        22       tens of thousands of cases in New York State

        23       because there's no statute of limitation, I











                                                             
10182

         1       think it could create an enormous burden on

         2       district attorneys and obviously to defendants

         3       who are going to have great difficulty defending

         4       these cases.

         5                      Don't you see the issue that we

         6       should be more selective like there was in sex

         7       offenses?  There's a rationale, particularly

         8       with children because they don't remember the

         9       trauma that's caused to children because of

        10       sexual assault that maybe -- not maybe, years

        11       they need to go into therapy.  They then realize

        12       maybe ten years later that they've been

        13       assaulted, but this is not the case across the

        14       board with your bill.

        15                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I certainly -

        16       are you finished?  I'm sorry.

        17                      SENATOR ABATE:  Sure.

        18                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I certainly do

        19       understand your rationale, and I would support

        20       that bill, Senator, but I think that just to say

        21       to bring closure to a case by letting the

        22       statute run and say, Well, it's beyond the

        23       statute of limitations, we can't prosecute; the











                                                             
10183

         1       case is closed, I think that it's a wrong

         2       direction to go in, to bring closure just by

         3       having the statute run, say now we can go on to

         4       something else, and I don't think that that

         5       necessarily helps the victim of that crime,

         6       certainly not in the instance that I pointed

         7       out, and I'm sure you would agree with that, and

         8       I realize that this may be an extra burden on

         9       the district attorney, but I think the district

        10       attorneys are more interested in closure through

        11       prosecution.  I would hope that they would be

        12       anyway, in closure through prosecution as

        13       opposed to closure through letting the statute

        14       run.

        15                      SENATOR ABATE:  Wouldn't a better

        16       approach be because it's -- maybe you can come

        17       up with one case throughout the state or five

        18       cases to extend the statute of limitations maybe

        19       beyond five years and have some discussion

        20       around that for some sexual assault cases and

        21       other kinds of cases because of new technology

        22       like DNA?  Maybe there should be a discussion

        23       that the five years should become seven years or











                                                             
10184

         1       the five years should become ten years.

         2                      To me, that is a more responsible

         3       approach, particularly for the defendant as well

         4       as the prosecution, and this seems to go beyond

         5       a rational resolution of the problem.  Have you

         6       looked at, Senator, the consideration of

         7       extending the five years to another time period?

         8                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I was wondering

         9       where the question was, Senator, but -

        10                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

        11                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Have I looked

        12       into it?

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

        14                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, I have

        15       looked into it, to be more specific, but I felt

        16       that this bill would be the right way to go.

        17                      SENATOR ABATE:  Senator, the

        18       example that you related to, which was multiple

        19       rape cases, if the statute was extended to seven

        20       or ten years, those crimes would be prosecut

        21       able, is that correct?

        22                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, they would

        23       be.











                                                             
10185

         1                      SENATOR ABATE:  Do you know of

         2       any case, if the statute was ten years that -

         3       in your jurisdiction, that could not be

         4       prosecuted?

         5                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  That could not

         6       be?

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  No, I'm not

         9       aware of any.

        10                      SENATOR ABATE:  Because what I'm

        11       suggesting is we look at cases beyond the ten

        12       years.  Will the witnesses be available?  Will

        13       the evidence be reliable? It will be very, very

        14       difficult in any event for a prosecution to

        15       occur, and I would hope that if this does not

        16       pass this year, that you would consider limiting

        17       this bill to certain types of crimes and also

        18       not eliminating the statute of limitations but

        19       maybe extending it beyond the five years.

        20                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Well, we'll see

        21       how this bill does in the other house of this

        22       Legislature and, if it doesn't, maybe we could

        23       get together.











                                                             
10186

         1                      SENATOR ABATE:  So we could have

         2       future discussions.

         3                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

         4                      SENATOR ABATE:  O.K. Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays

        13       one, Senator Abate recorded in the negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1356, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1119, an

        18       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

        19       to the extension of professional privileges.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Will you lay

        21       that aside temporarily, please.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside temporarily.











                                                             
10187

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1358, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 1985, an

         3       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         4       relation to the definition of a bell jar.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Hoblock, an explanation of Calendar Number 1358

         8       has been asked for.

         9                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      Mr. President, this amends a

        12       provision of the General Municipal Law that

        13       would allow the sale of what has been referred

        14       to as "bell jar" tickets through a vending

        15       machine.

        16                      Right now, bell jar tickets are

        17       available in certain places and establishments,

        18       obviously if they conform with the law and

        19       obtain the license from the local municipality,

        20       and these are sold by hand and there appears to

        21       be some problems in some jurisdictions where the

        22       record keeping may not be as best as it should

        23       be because it is being handled by hand.











                                                             
10188

         1                      What this does is allow those

         2       bell jar tickets to be sold from a vending

         3       machine as opposed to one handing them out, and

         4       there would be better accountability, better

         5       record keeping, more money for the municipality,

         6       for the state and for the charity involved.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       if Senator Hoblock will yield for a question?

        11                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Sure.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Senator yields.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, if we

        15       allow this type of sale to occur through the

        16       process of vending as in a vending machine, then

        17       how do we restrict access to minors?

        18                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Well, I think

        19       the same way it is now.  I think obviously

        20       somebody is going to have to monitor this as

        21       they do now.  I mean I don't think there's any

        22        -- any way that, or maybe to say that there's

        23       no difference between a vending machine or a











                                                             
10189

         1       person there handing them out.  You're still

         2       going to have to abide by the law -- comply with

         3       the law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         7       if the sponsor would yield again.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Hoblock, you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Sure.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, if a

        14       person is handing them out -- and we've had that

        15       problem with alcohol, and we've had that problem

        16       with videos and that kind of thing -- at least

        17       there's someone you can hold to a higher duty.

        18       In fact, we're holding the distributors of

        19       alcohol to a higher standard than we used to

        20       because of the fact that they have allowed

        21       younger people to participate.

        22                      In the present case, the ones

        23       that you're describing, we really don't have any











                                                             
10190

         1       recourse.  We can't -- there isn't even the

         2       slightest, you know when an individual is -- is

         3       handing things out, at least there's the

         4       perception of -- within the buyer that they've

         5       got to at least make the person think that there

         6       are certain names, but to just push a couple of

         7       buttons, I see a wide difference in that.

         8                      Who is making these vending

         9       machines by the way?

        10                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I'm sorry.

        11       Who's making them?

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  The

        13       manufacturer.

        14                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Well, I suppose

        15       they would buy them from any manufacturer,

        16       distributor, that deals in this type of

        17       product.  I'm not sure who that would be by

        18       name.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        20       to the sponsor, cigarettes, for instance, are

        21       distributed through vending machines and we have

        22       that same problem.  That's what I'm really

        23       trying to impress upon you is the fact that just











                                                             
10191

         1       to remove even the -- even the symbol of

         2       society's contempt for younger people who would

         3       get involved either in the consumption of

         4       alcohol, the purchase of cigarettes or the

         5       involvement in this -- with these bell jars, is

         6       something that we have a -- a strong concern

         7       about.

         8                      If the sponsor would yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Hoblock, do you yield?

        11                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I will.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       yields.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'm thinking

        15       about some of the things that we're

        16       contemplating right now, Keno and video lottery,

        17       and that kind of thing.  Just the value of it,

        18       even if there is a -- even if there is a profit,

        19       do you think that that is real that this is

        20       really a good public policy, a good message to

        21       be sending in spite of whatever revenues might

        22       be raised, the fact that we are exposing it to

        23       younger people, and the fact that we are as a











                                                             
10192

         1       matter of course in such a state that we have to

         2       resort to this kind of thing, do you think as a

         3       Legislature, this is a positive direction for us

         4       to be moving?

         5                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Well, I -- I'm

         6       not sure that this bill addresses the whole

         7       policy of -- of this type of game or addresses

         8       this whole arena of bell jars or any form of

         9       wagering.  I mean this -- this law obviously has

        10       been on the books for quite a while.  This

        11       Legislature had approved it subject to local

        12       municipal licensure and approval, and it's been

        13       ongoing now.  This is the type of operation as

        14       conducted in our veterans' posts, our Elks

        15       Lodges, Moose, and like benevolent fraternal

        16       organizations for them to -- to raise the

        17       necessary funds for their charity work, and all

        18       this does is what we're trying to do is correct

        19       what we felt was a problem in the accountability

        20       and record keeping in the way these bell jar

        21       tickets are being handled now.

        22                      Now, in terms of the minors,

        23       Senator Paterson, you know, I -- while you were











                                                             
10193

         1       talking, I kept -- happened to think, you know,

         2       we have this vending betting at our racetracks

         3       now, and I -- I assume that at these particular

         4       places, that is our racetracks, they are doing

         5       the same coverage and enforcement that will or

         6       would apply here.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         8       Senator.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  On the bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson, on the bill.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  It may be -

        15       it may be that -- (microphone inoperative) I

        16       think it should actually make it more difficult.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Padavan.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Would like to

        21       call the roll.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I think

        23       Senator Solomon wishes to speak on the bill,











                                                             
10194

         1       please.

         2                      Senator Solomon.

         3                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes, will

         4       Senator Hoblock yield, please?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Hoblock, do you yield?

         7                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Sure.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       yields.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, this

        11       doesn't deal with the bill itself, but allows

        12       that organizations, participating organizations

        13       that are allowed to sell this.  What

        14       organizations are allowed to sell these bell jar

        15       raffles or whatever they are?

        16                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Well, it's my

        17       understanding that the local municipality has to

        18       have a public referendum on the licensure of

        19       anyone doing this type of operation, and these

        20       organizations that apply for this license within

        21       the local municipality are usually your benevo

        22       lent, fraternal and charitable organizations.

        23       They're not commercial establishments in the











                                                             
10195

         1       sense that we know commercial establishments.

         2       They may be, as I say, the Elks Lodges, the

         3       Moose, the veterans' posts, they're primarily

         4       the organizations that utilize this.

         5                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you.

         6                      Mr. President, will Senator

         7       Hoblock yield for one more question?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       continues to yield.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, to the

        11       best -- do you have any knowledge as to whether

        12       or not organizations in New York City are

        13       licensed to use this or any New York City

        14       organizations are allowed to sell these bell jar

        15       tickets?

        16                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I'm not.  I'm

        17       not.

        18                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10196

         1       Padavan, to explain his vote.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, I'd like to

         3       ask Senator Hoblock a question.

         4                      Senator, I heard you say that a

         5       local referendum is required?

         6                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I don't believe

         7       so.

         8                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Can't hear.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Padavan, excuse me just a minute.  Senator

        11       Solomon is having a difficult time hearing your

        12       conversation.  Could we quiet it down in the

        13       chamber, please, take the conversations outside?

        14                      Thank you, Senator Padavan.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator

        16       Hoblock, last year you were not here, so you're

        17       not obviously privy to a considerable debate we

        18       had on a bill that expanded both the size of the

        19       wager and all of the opportunities relevant to

        20       bell jars, which made it far more potentially

        21       harmful in terms of how much people could lose,

        22       and so on.

        23                      In the course of that debate, we











                                                             
10197

         1       were led to believe, based on representations,

         2       that all one had to do was apply to the state

         3       wagering board to have a bell jar.  There was no

         4       requirement -- if you have some reference that

         5       refutes that, I'd be happy to hear it.  There is

         6       no requirement for any local referendum and all

         7       like charitable organization of the kinds you've

         8       identified, would have to do is fill out a form,

         9       file it with the state wagering board and get a

        10       license to have a bell jar.  There's no local

        11       referendum, so I'm only standing up here to

        12       correct you on that point.

        13                      I have many problems with the

        14       entire concept.  We seem to be making excuses

        15       for -- we say we have vending machines in one

        16       category, so why not have it in another.  We say

        17       we have a state lottery, why not have a Quick

        18       Draw lottery?  We have a Quick Draw lottery and

        19       Indians, why not have casinos?  We seem to be

        20       sliding down that slippery slope on an

        21       accelerated basis, and this is just one more

        22       direction.

        23                      But I do have to correct you,











                                                             
10198

         1       Senator, and I hesitate to do so.  There is no

         2       referendum required.

         3                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I could be -- I

         4       could be wrong, Senator Padavan.  It is my

         5       understanding that that was the case, but I know

         6       my own municipality went through it, and I don't

         7       have the law in front of me, so you could -- you

         8       could very well be right, but I know that there

         9       is some type of game or operation -- maybe it's

        10       just the Las Vegas nights, I'm not really sure

        11        -- in which the local municipality has to have

        12       on its books approval by the public in the form

        13       of a referendum.

        14                      Now, whether that covers bell jar

        15       activity, I don't know for sure standing here.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        17       recognizes Senator Stachowski.

        18                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  On the bill,

        19       I rise to support this bill.  It's -- my

        20       district has a lot of volunteer companies and

        21       veterans' posts that already have bell jars.

        22       We're not putting something in that's not there

        23       already, but this -- this particular way of











                                                             
10199

         1       selling them in a machine has been requested for

         2       them and discussed among volunteer fire

         3       companies for quite a few years, and I'm glad

         4       that Senator Hoblock is sponsoring this bill and

         5       I hope it will pass and pass the other house and

         6       get signed by the Governor because it will be a

         7       great help to all these organizations, and I

         8       think that it's something that will prove

         9       necessary not only in keeping records but in the

        10       actual selling of them in their clubhouse and so

        11       that somebody doesn't constantly sit there and

        12       be doing it.

        13                      So I think it's a good bill.  The

        14       volunteer fire companies have been working for

        15       this, and I urge my colleagues to vote yes on

        16       this.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
10200

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         2       the results when tabulated.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar 1358 are Senators

         5       Babbush, Cook, DiCarlo, Gold, Hannon, Holland,

         6       Kruger, Maltese, Marcellino, Maziarz, Padavan,

         7       Paterson, Saland, Skelos, Smith, Solomon and

         8       Tully.  Ayes 37, nays 17.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Gold, why do you rise?

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, Mr.

        15       President.  I was out of the room when we

        16       handled Calendar 1354, Senator Maziarz' bill,

        17       which would eliminate all statutes of

        18       limitations for "B" felonies which would include

        19       attempted crimes and while I would support

        20       increasing a statute of limitations if that was

        21       necessary, the concept of prosecuting someone in

        22       20, 25 years after they allegedly attempted an

        23       arson, is ludicrous.











                                                             
10201

         1                      I vote -- I ask for permission to

         2       be recorded in the negative.

         3                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  What's the

         4       number?

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  1354.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection -- without objection, Senator Gold

         8       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         9       Number 1354.

        10                      Senator Mendez, why do you rise?

        11                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes, I'm also

        12       requesting to be reported in the negative on

        13       Calendar 1354.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Mendez

        16       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        17       Number 1354.

        18                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        19                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I likewise

        20       would like to be recorded in the negative on

        21       1354, and would request unanimous consent.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, hearing no objection, Senator











                                                             
10202

         1       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative on

         2       1354.

         3                      Senator Stachowski.

         4                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

         5       President, I also rise to seek unanimous consent

         6       to be recorded in the negative on 1354.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, Senator Stachowski will be recorded

         9       in the negative on Calendar 1354.

        10                      Senator Holland.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND: Same for me on

        12       1354.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        14       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Holland

        15       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        16       1354.

        17                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        18                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Ditto.  I

        19       request unanimous consent.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        21       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        22       Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on

        23       Calendar Number 1354.











                                                             
10203

         1                      Senator Babbush.

         2                      SENATOR BABBUSH:  1354, negative.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         4       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Babbush

         5       will be recorded in the negative so Calendar

         6       Number 1354.

         7                      Senator Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         9       at this time, if we could take up Senator

        10       Spano's bill, Calendar Number 1356.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the title of Calendar Number 1356.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1356, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1119, an

        15       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

        16       to the extension of professional privileges.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Spano, an explanation of Calendar Number 1356

        20       has been asked for by Senator Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President,

        22       this -- this bill would provide podiatrists with

        23       the opportunity to be considered for hospital











                                                             
10204

         1       privileges rather based on their individual

         2       competence and professional qualification.

         3                      The bill has got a no-cost

         4       implication.  The hospitals have declared that

         5       certain types of practice are inconsistent with

         6       their mission and with that type of a

         7       declaration, they would exclude entire classes

         8       of licensed professionals who have access to

         9       hospital privileges.

        10                      Now, this would, in my opinion,

        11       violate the spirit and the intent of why -- of

        12       Section 2801 (b) of the Public Health Law, and

        13       should be curtailed.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        17       would Senator Spano, who is my friend and lives

        18       in Westchester, be willing to yield for a

        19       question?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Spano, do you yield?

        22                      SENATOR SPANO:  Yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10205

         1       yields.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, do -

         3       is it necessary for us legislatively to mandate

         4       that this happen; in other words, in a sense to

         5       micromanage the hospitals? Is there a way that

         6       the hospitals can arrive at this same conclusion

         7       without our intervention?

         8                      SENATOR SPANO:  The -- this -

         9       Senator Paterson, this does not mandate that

        10       hospitals have to allow podiatrists to get

        11       privileges.  What it does say that we can't

        12       discriminate against the license, that if

        13       podiatrists are good enough to be licensed by

        14       New York State, that they have should not be

        15       discriminated against by hospitals who don't

        16       want to use -- who don't want to extend this

        17       corporate practice to podiatrists.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If the Senator

        23       will continue to yield?











                                                             
10206

         1                      SENATOR SPANO:  Yes.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       continues to yield.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  It's my belief

         5       that the hospitals now, in a great many

         6       respects, do discriminate certainly against

         7       minority doctors, primary health care providers

         8       in minority communities, who can't seem to get

         9       associated with the hospital.  The hospitals are

        10       supposed to have a community service plan and

        11       they usually don't have a real documented plan.

        12       They just take some document and mail it to the

        13       Health Department.  That kind of remindes me of

        14       community reinvestment.

        15                      For years after the passage of

        16       legislation in 1977, all the banks did was just

        17       take a form and send it to the Securities and

        18       Exchange Commission.  They didn't do any

        19       community reinvestment, and here the hospitals

        20       are basically getting away with it, so you may

        21       have cured the problem as it might exist for

        22       podiatrists, but to me, what probably is needed

        23       is a whole plan with -- where in the sense











                                                             
10207

         1       following through on what we already have

         2       codified with the hospitals work on this plan

         3       because there are a lot of people, a lot of

         4       doctors, a lot of physicians who are being

         5       denied access as a result of the policies made

         6       by hospitals.

         7                      So I just want to know what this

         8       singular sort of reconciliation with what should

         9       accomplish the denial of discrimination to

        10       podiatrists does to the whole scheme of problems

        11       with hospital administration that do exist in

        12       this area?

        13                      SENATOR SPANO:  The Section 2801

        14       (b) of the Public Health Law was established

        15       specifically to prohibit hospitals from engaging

        16       in improper practices and in certain staff

        17       appointments, hospital staff appointments.

        18                      The -- what this amendment would

        19       do would just be to make sure that -- we are

        20       going to make sure that certain types of

        21       practice in this regard, podiatrists would not

        22       be excluded on the -- on the basis of their

        23       title, for hospital privileges.  If there are











                                                             
10208

         1       other -- other issues of improper practices,

         2       Senator, it's frankly not something that's been

         3       brought to my attention, we can handle that in

         4       another statute.  But this is one where we have

         5       podiatrists who are licensed, who are licensed

         6       to perform surgical services in the state of New

         7       York, that they should not be disqualified as a

         8       class of individuals for hospital privileges.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  All right.

        10       Thank you, Senator.  On the bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Paterson, on the bill.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If Senator

        14       Spano is correct, I might be objecting to the

        15       approach in which we seem to be taking these

        16       issues one at a time.  We might have to involve

        17       ourselves in some of the midwifery cases.

        18       Nurses and midwives are having trouble getting

        19       admitted into hospitals as well.  They feel they

        20       suffer the same discrimination but for the

        21       purpose that the bill tries to accomplish, it

        22       certainly is -- it certainly is valid, and I

        23       would urge support for the bill.











                                                             
10209

         1                      I'm just saying that the whole

         2       gamut of hospital administration procedures that

         3       often inure to the detriment of health care

         4       personnel who could be of great assistance to

         5       patients, is something that we probably need to

         6       go into further.

         7                      This particular instance of it

         8       certainly will give podiatrists a more equitable

         9       opportunity than what they're receiving now.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        18       the results when tabulated.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 2,

        20       Senators Kuhl and Oppenheimer recorded in the

        21       negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Jones.











                                                             
10210

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

         2       Jones.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      Senator Montgomery, why do you

         6       rise?

         7                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

         8       President, I just wanted to be recorded in the

         9       negative on Calendar 1354.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        12       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        13       Calendar Number 1354.

        14                      Senator Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        16       would you call up Calendar Number 1365, by

        17       Senator Nozzolio.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the title to Calendar Number 1365.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1365, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4252, an

        22       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,

        23       in relation to regulating the hours of sale by a











                                                             
10211

         1       winery.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will -

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Nozzolio, an explanation of Calendar Number 1365

         7       has been asked for by Senator Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.  I'll be glad to try to explain the

        10       measure to Senator Paterson and my colleagues.

        11                      The measure before us -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Pardon an

        13       interruption here.  It's pretty noisy.  Could we

        14       quiet it down in the chamber, please, ask the

        15       members to take their seats, staff to take their

        16       places.

        17                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      Mr. President, my colleagues,

        20       this Legislature, the Assembly in the past, has

        21       enacted law that allows licensed wineries to

        22       remain open for the purpose of selling their

        23       products on Sundays between the hours of ten











                                                             
10212

         1       o'clock in the morning and midnight.

         2                      When a winery is licensed to

         3       operate and engage in activity off premises, a

         4       gray area exists in the law and by "off

         5       premises", this is a winery selling their

         6       product at a wine festival or a farmers'

         7       market.  The question is whether or not a winery

         8       which is allowed to open on Sunday can sell its

         9       products off premises and a wine festival or

        10       farmers' market on Sunday.

        11                      What we're trying to do is

        12       rectify the ambiguity in the statute with this

        13       law by defining the right for wineries who are

        14       already licensed to sell their product on their

        15       premises during those hours on Sunday, to be

        16       able to sell their product off premises at

        17       designated festivals and recognized county fairs

        18       between the hours of ten o'clock and midnight on

        19       Sunday.

        20                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Solomon.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator











                                                             
10213

         1       Nozzolio yield, please?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Nozzolio, do you yield to a question from

         4       Senator Solomon?

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Certainly.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       yields.

         8                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator,

         9       correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original

        10       intent to allow wineries to sell on Sundays on

        11       premises as a tourism attempt because there are

        12       winery tours and people go through the winery,

        13       wasn't that the original intent of that bill?

        14                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes.

        15                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  I see.

        16                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.

        17       President.  In response to Senator Solomon's

        18       question, I believe that was the intent.

        19                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  I see.  So

        20       Senator Nozzolio continue to yield again?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       continues to yield.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  So the intent











                                                             
10214

         1       would be as if Senator Solomon or Senator Smith

         2       or Senator Jones would go to the winery, take a

         3       tour, they sample the product, they say, "Gee,

         4       I'd like to purchase this product," and they can

         5       purchase that winery's product and only that

         6       winery's product at that site as a tourism

         7       enhancement.

         8                      Doesn't this bill seem to get

         9       away from the tourism aspect of it, in fact

        10       allowing any winery that has tourists to sell at

        11       any farmers' market on a Sunday?

        12                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Well, Senator

        13       Solomon, it's a question I'm so glad you

        14       raised.

        15                      The answer is this exactly gets

        16       to the tourism potential, really the sole reason

        17       why I decided to put this bill in, in the first

        18       place.

        19                      Now, the wineries -- let me

        20       explain.  We have a group of small farm

        21       wineries, who myself, Senator Kuhl, Senator

        22       Present, others represent in the wine country

        23       upstate, and we look at the small farm winery as











                                                             
10215

         1       the beneficiary of this.

         2                      A festival took place this last

         3       year during which collectively the small farm

         4       wineries in New York State got together and

         5       engaged in a huge tourism promotion.  There were

         6       a number of people involved in that promotion

         7       that brought tens of thousands of people to the

         8       Finger Lakes area, and we wanted to make sure

         9       that the -- the gray area that they have

        10       existed, but when the permit was granted, the

        11       farm wineries engaged in their festival, and it

        12       was a very successful one, it brought a lot of

        13       new tourists into the area, introduced them to

        14       New York wines.  What we're trying to do is

        15       ensure that the ambiguity is minimized in law so

        16       that those who must enforce the state liquor law

        17       would have a clear direction from the

        18       Legislature that we were, in effect, allowing

        19       anyone who has their -- that permit to sell on

        20       premise would be allowed that same ability for,

        21       and the bill does list the State Fair,

        22       recognized county fairs and at farmers' markets

        23       operated on a not-for-profit basis in accordance











                                                             
10216

         1       with the provisions of the liquor law already,

         2       the -- yes, the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law

         3       already.

         4                      So, Senator, thank you for

         5       indulging me a longer answer to your question

         6       than I'm sure you want to have, but I appreciate

         7       the opportunity to further explain that this is

         8       done in an effort to enhance tourism in our

         9       region.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Solomon.

        13                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Will Senator

        14       Nozzolio yield?  I care to indulge you for a

        15       couple of more.  I guess it's a good opportunity

        16       to indulge you this time, a couple more

        17       questions.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        19       you continue to yield?

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       continues to yield.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, I'm











                                                             
10217

         1       trying to figure this out.  I'm a little kid

         2       from Brooklyn and I haven't been able to figure

         3       out this state.  150 years ago -- why are

         4       wineries -- why can't we sell liquor on Sundays?

         5       What's the prohibition and, you know, the Jewish

         6       holiday, Passover, they have questions,

         7       questions, and one of the questions, why is this

         8       day different from any other day?  And why is

         9       Sunday different from any other day? Can you

        10       tell me the reason?

        11                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        12       Senator has succeeded in stumping me.  That is a

        13       question that is far beyond my knowledge or

        14       expertise.

        15                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  O.K.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Solomon.

        18                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Will Senator

        19       Nozzolio yield, please?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Nozzolio, do you yield?

        22                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Certainly.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10218

         1       yields.

         2                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, well,

         3       if there seems to be no reason on why we should

         4       prohibit sales of wine on Sundays, why don't we

         5       just take this bill and allow any New York State

         6       winery, because I really, I do prefer New York

         7       State wines, to be sold, allow any store to sell

         8       New York State wines only on Sundays?

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

        10       Senator Solomon has an idea that certainly could

        11       be discussed.  I'd recommend him putting in a

        12       bill if he believes strongly in his idea.

        13                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Senator, I have

        14       a bill in committee that allows you to sell

        15       alcoholic beverages on Sundays.  In fact, it

        16       even says that, if you're closed on Saturdays,

        17       then you can sell on Sundays because we really

        18       don't want these sole proprietors to work seven

        19       days a week.  I don't think that would be fair.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator

        21       Solomon, if you have any wineries in Brooklyn -

        22                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  We do have

        23       wineries.











                                                             
10219

         1                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  -- that you

         2       would like to participate in the wine festivals

         3       in upstate, I'm sure that they would be

         4       welcome.  I would encourage you to talk to your

         5       constituents to allow them to come up, to ask

         6       them to come up to the Finger Lakes region.  I'm

         7       sure that it certainly would be a unique

         8       opportunity for upstaters and downstaters,

         9       vintners, to get together.  I see no problem

        10       with that whatsoever.

        11                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Mr. President,

        12       will Senator Nozzolio yield for a question on

        13       the bill?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        15       will you continue to yield?  Senator continues

        16       to yield.

        17                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  The specific

        18       language in the bill doesn't talk about a wine

        19       festival upstate.  It talks about county fairs

        20       and farmers' markets operated on a farmers' -

        21       operated on a not-for-profit basis.  Can you

        22       tell me if -- there are numerous farmers'

        23       markets held at Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn,











                                                             
10220

         1       14th Street in Manhattan, I know there are

         2       numerous farmers' markets in the downstate that

         3       would qualify under this?

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly,

         5       Senator, I think you would have to answer that

         6       question.  The language of the bill discusses

         7       farmers' markets operated on a -- farmers'

         8       markets operated on a not-for-profit basis in

         9       accordance with Section 176 of this statute.

        10                      If that farmers' market you refer

        11       to complies with that statute, then I guess it

        12       would qualify.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Solomon.

        15                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      I didn't even ask Senator -

        18       Senator, another question.  What is a recognized

        19       county fair? I -- seriously.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  The purpose

        21       for including county fairs is because we look at

        22       county fairs in upstate as ways to showcase

        23       goods that are produced in counties by the











                                                             
10221

         1       agricultural community.  That's the purpose,

         2       that these certainly qualify as products that

         3       the agriculture community produces and that when

         4       there is a county fair that has a way of

         5       showcasing this area, that that's the reason.

         6                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Solomon.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  If Senator

        11       Nozzolio would yield for another question,

        12       please, and then I'll speak on the bill.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Solomon, on the bill.

        15                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  No, if Senator

        16       Nozzolio will yield for one last question.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Will

        18       Senator Nozzolio yield for one last question?

        19                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  One last

        20       question, yes; I'll yield.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       yields.

        23                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  One last











                                                             
10222

         1       question.  Senator, why are we going to limit it

         2       to these locations only for Sunday sales?

         3                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         4       it wasn't our intention to broad-base Sunday

         5       sales.  We only wanted to clear up an ambiguity

         6       in the law that farmers' markets, county fairs,

         7       festivals that are occurring on Sunday that

         8       wineries, small farm wineries, already have the

         9       opportunity to sell on Sundays, this is just an

        10       extension of something that they're already

        11       allowed to do in places that would showcase

        12       their product.

        13                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you.

        14                      Mr. President, on the bill.

        15                      I believe that we can probably

        16       enhance many of our wineries in New York State

        17       and, in fact, there are a number of wineries in

        18       New York City, Senator Nozzolio, that we can

        19       point out.  In fact, there are wineries in lower

        20       Manhattan.  I think Shapiro's is still located

        21       in lower Manhattan, if somebody represents that

        22       area, maybe Senator Connor could correct me.  In

        23       fact, I think Shapiro's is in Speaker Silver's











                                                             
10223

         1       district, and I'm sure Shapiro's would like to

         2       sell its wine at the local farmers' market on

         3       14th Street, and now they can on Sunday.  In

         4       fact, maybe we're going to have to establish a

         5       farmers' market in certain parts of my district

         6       on a not-for-profit basis.

         7                      But what I'm concerned about,

         8       this is the second bill to come to the -- to

         9       come to the floor of this house in the last

        10       three days that allows alcoholic beverages to be

        11       sold on Sundays.  The first bill took two days

        12       which, as far as many of the constituents in my

        13       district are concerned, are two normal days on

        14       the calendar, December 25th and January 1st,

        15       actually December 24th and December 31st, and is

        16       going to allow liquor sales for this coming

        17       year.

        18                      Why?  Because those holidays have

        19       some religious significance to some people in

        20       this state.  And why are liquor stores closed on

        21       Sundays? I attempted to find that out

        22       legislatively and the records just did not go

        23       back 150 years or so in this state.  I think











                                                             
10224

         1       there was a fire at the state education building

         2       about 80 years ago, took care of everything like

         3       that; but a large number of people in this

         4       state, as it has become more diverse over the

         5       last 30 years or 40 years, do not observe Sunday

         6       as their sabbath.  Muslims observe Friday as

         7       their day of rest.  The Jewish religion, the

         8       Orthodox Jewish religion, Jewish religion

         9       observes Saturday, and the people that own

        10       liquor stores in the Orthodox Jewish community

        11        -- and there are only about four that I can

        12       think of offhand in my district, three or four

        13        -- are closed on Saturdays.  It's their day of

        14       rest.  Yet they're prohibited from sale -- sales

        15       on Sundays, and indeed they sell a number of New

        16       York State wines which are kosher, substantial

        17       numbers, because the Jewish community uses a

        18       substantial amount of wine, and what I'm looking

        19       at here is another attempt to expand sales.

        20                      They said to achieve these sales,

        21       I believe we're going to see wine sales by the

        22       way in Brooklyn, in New York City because we

        23       have very active farmers' markets by these











                                                             
10225

         1       wineries.  Let's get down to it.  Let's save -

         2       I put a bill in and Senator Goodman sent a note

         3       to the Rules Committee saying that, if you're

         4       closed another day of the week, for proprietary

         5       stores so we're not going to have large chain

         6       stores closing one store here and opening

         7       another in another part of the city of New York

         8       so they have something open every day, that you

         9       can sell alcoholic beverages on that Sunday and

        10       we're slowly reaching this.  It's almost what we

        11       were doing in the other bill with the bell jars

        12       and gambling.  We're taking baby, baby, baby

        13       steps.

        14                      I dare say if session wasn't

        15       going to end today, we were going to go for

        16       another two weeks, we might see another two

        17       bills or three bills or four bills or five bills

        18       on Sundays and make other exceptions, and what

        19       we have to recognize in this Legislature is the

        20       original basis for liquor stores to be closed on

        21       Sundays or wine sales to be prohibited, and

        22       times have changed, and groups of people have

        23       changed, and this is just allowing wineries











                                                             
10226

         1       which, in fact, were originally allowed to sell

         2       their products on Sundays because we promoted

         3       tours, whether it be up in the Finger Lakes

         4       region, or I think there's Windsor winery

         5       further down on the Thruway, to sell in-house as

         6       people came through those wineries on tours.

         7                      Now we're saying, well, we're

         8       going to carve a little section out a little

         9       bigger.  That winery can go and sell at a county

        10       fair, State Fair, and/or farmers' markets and

        11       we're not exactly sure what farmers' markets are

        12       at this point in time.

        13                      So now we're going to see

        14       wineries, I suspect, opening or having booths

        15       for sale at the farmers' markets in New York

        16       City.  I believe there are farmers' markets in

        17       Nassau also, in Westchester, throughout the

        18       state, because I know the state Department of

        19       Agriculture publishes a long list of farmers'

        20       markets, and I'm saying, why can't the

        21       legitimate liquor store owners who are closed at

        22       least one day a week now open and sell on

        23       Sundays?











                                                             
10227

         1                      This is not fair to a lot of

         2       people in this state.  Yes, a minority, but the

         3       minorities have rights, because that's the basis

         4       of this country is to protect the minorities'

         5       rights, and I think this is a bill, in fact,

         6       that's even going to go further in terms of

         7       eroding that right, allowing a large or not so

         8       large wineries to sell their products off

         9       premises on Sundays, around the year because

        10       there's farmers' markets operated every week.

        11                      Yet we're telling the legitimate

        12       liquor store licensees that they're not going to

        13       be able to sell their products on Sundays and

        14       those that are closed on Saturdays are now

        15       closed on Saturdays and Sundays also.  It's

        16       inherently unfair, and as we do more and more of

        17       these bills I question whether or not we can

        18       actually commence a legal action about that

        19       issue and win in our courts; but it's something

        20       we shouldn't have to take to court.  It's

        21       something the members of this Legislature should

        22       recognize as being unfair to a number of my

        23       constituents.











                                                             
10228

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         3       Senator Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

         5       congratulate Senator Solomon for his persistence

         6       in this, and I really have a plea to Senator

         7       Nozzolio who, it has been pointed out to me, has

         8       the distinction of not one, but two Cornell

         9       degrees.

        10                      Senator, there's an opportunity

        11       to hold the bill, amend it very quickly and pass

        12       it this year, but pass it in a way that it takes

        13       care of our total problem.  I -- I don't know

        14       your district, Senator, as intimately as you,

        15       obviously, and I don't mean to be presumptuous

        16       or pretentious, but I can not believe that it

        17       would cause you a political problem in your

        18       district if we brought in the fairness that

        19       Senator Solomon has discussed.

        20                      You indicated that you put in the

        21       bill to clear up an ambiguity, and I suggest to

        22       you there's no ambiguity, the law is very clear,

        23       it doesn't allow certain things and you,











                                                             
10229

         1       Senator, have decided to allow some other things

         2       which I don't have a problem with, but you know,

         3       you put people in a very strange situation.

         4       When you have a rule, and we say we just don't

         5       do something, people can all look at each other

         6       and say, "We don't do it," but when you start

         7       the crack in the door and say, Well, we can't do

         8       it, but we're going to let them do it and maybe

         9       those guys over there and maybe these people

        10       here, that is what really starts to cause the

        11       problems.

        12                      There is no one in the state -

        13       Senator, did you want to say something? Senator,

        14       I'll yield to Senator Nozzolio.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Senator

        16       Nozzolio asking Senator Gold -

        17                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Well, I was

        18       asking Senator Gold to yield.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'll be glad to.

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator, I've

        21       taken consideration of your comments and trying

        22       to weigh this in my mind.  Are you not aware

        23       that the wineries already have the authority as











                                                             
10230

         1       granted by this Legislature to sell on Sunday

         2       their product within the framework of their

         3       winery?  Are you not aware of that, Senator?

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, yes.

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  And I guess I

         6       rise because of your comment that suggests we're

         7       trying to change the law to grant an authority.

         8       Well, I concede we are changing the law, trying

         9       to clarify the law.  But I would -- the Sunday

        10       sale is allowed already, and that, I think, is

        11       something that needs to be stated again.

        12                      In response to your comments,

        13       Senator Gold, which I respect, that we're not

        14       trying to give the wineries another grant of

        15       selling on Sunday that they didn't already

        16       have.  I think that's the reason why this change

        17       becomes more incremental than is suggested by

        18       Senator Solomon.  The authority is there already

        19       for them to sell.

        20                      Now, the wine -- the wine

        21       festival -- thank you for indulging me in this

        22       long statement because it's -- it is more than

        23       just a question, Senator, but it does get to











                                                             
10231

         1       your point, and I wish you would continue and

         2       respond to this statement, that what we're

         3       trying to do is take those wineries who can sell

         4       at their winery within two or three miles of

         5       this festival, to be able to sell at the

         6       festival at the same time that they would

         7       otherwise be allowed to sell at the winery.

         8       That's really what we're trying to clear up

         9       here, and that that -

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        11       yield?

        12                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  -- may seem

        13       like a greater change, but, Senator, I think in

        14       that context, let me state that as a question.

        15       In that context, do you see that as less of a

        16       change than you originally thought?

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        18       yield for a question?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        20       Senator Nozzolio, will you yield for a question?

        21                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Sure.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        23       Senator yields.











                                                             
10232

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Nozzolio,

         2       very specifically, if you're telling me that the

         3       law now allows them to sell here and your

         4       amendment is going to allow them to sell here

         5       and there, that unquestionably is an expansion

         6       of their right to sell; is that not right?

         7                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  But Senator,

        10       in further response to your question, those

        11       wineries up and down the Wine Trail, which is a

        12       trail of about 35 miles long, those wineries

        13       would be selling that day at that time under

        14       current law.  We're saying you could do it at

        15       your winery.  We're saying together you can

        16       collectively market, and Senator Solomon's

        17       question was initially that the threshold was

        18       based on tourism, the answer yes, my motive, it

        19       was precisely to allow those wineries to come

        20       together to enhance collectively what they might

        21       not be able to do individually in promoting a

        22       New York product, to pay New York taxes, to help

        23       our economy through tourism, and enhancing the











                                                             
10233

         1       notice of a New York State product.

         2                      That's the reason here, Senator.

         3       It's not to bring in other wineries from out of

         4       state; it's not to bring in other types of -- of

         5       entities.  That would not lead directly to an

         6       economic benefit to New York taxpayers.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

         8       yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        10       Senator Nozzolio, will you continue to yield?

        11                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        13       Senator continues to yield.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, you're

        15       saying in some way there's an economic benefit

        16       if, instead of buying at the New York State

        17       winery, you could go a mile away and buy from

        18       three or four New York wineries that would be in

        19       place at a fair or market, is that correct?

        20                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Well, Senator,

        21       this happens not every Sunday, it happens once a

        22       year.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  But I'm just











                                                             
10234

         1       asking you, is that basically what you're

         2       saying?

         3                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes, that's

         4       what I'm saying.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Then would you

         6       yield to another question?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         8       Senator yields.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would it not

        10       enhance New York State wineries if they go to

        11       one place, whether it's a state fair or if they

        12       go to this one store where it has wines from New

        13       York State wineries and people who are from

        14       Brooklyn or Queens who are not up at your state

        15       fair could buy these New York State wines in the

        16       one place whether it's in Brooklyn or Queens?

        17       Wouldn't that help?

        18                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Senator, it

        19       may help, but what they're trying to do is

        20       collectively do what they can't do individually

        21       and that's promote a product grown in New York,

        22       produced in New York, and something that can try

        23       to enhance and promote the entire economy.











                                                             
10235

         1                      We're not talking about a -- a

         2       regular 12-month-a-year type operation.  We're

         3       talking about a festival.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  On the bill, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         7       Senator Gold, on the bill.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  As I was saying,

         9       Senator Nozzolio says that his bill is clearing

        10       up an ambiguity.  It is not.  It is granting

        11       authority to sell in a new way, and no matter

        12       however you phrase that, that is exactly what is

        13       happening, and all that Senator Solomon is

        14       trying to say is, having opened this door, let's

        15       understand what we're talking about.

        16                      We understand that in America, in

        17       the broadest sense of America, that there are

        18       public holidays which have a religious

        19       derivation.  If you ask a particular religion to

        20       set up other holidays, they might not pick

        21       Christmas and -- they might pick something

        22       else.

        23                      Well, we have in America our











                                                             
10236

         1       public holidays, but as you travel around

         2       America, you find more and more that some of the

         3       religious dogma that has come into public law is

         4       being recognized as religious dogma.  It is

         5       being respected as such, but the public law

         6       opens up to other people.

         7                      Now, why is Senator Solomon so

         8       agitated the last few days?  Because it seems

         9       that, with the end of this session, if this bill

        10       passes and yesterday's bill passes, that in this

        11       session, this Legislature has decided to open

        12       the doors in a specific area to certain specific

        13       groups and thereby, by the negative side,

        14       exclude certain groups and that's got to be

        15       offensive to Senator Solomon if his bill is

        16       sitting in a committee and the committee did

        17       nothing; and so we are not dealing with the

        18       issue of Sunday sales.  That's one thing, but if

        19       you're dealing with the issue and you will not

        20       deal with it, as it applies to a very

        21       significant part of the population in this

        22       state, that is offensive.

        23                      Now, Senator Nozzolio, I never











                                                             
10237

         1       asked anybody to do anything that he or she

         2       would personally find offensive or that he or

         3       she would personally find politically difficult

         4       or embarrassing, but I don't believe, and I say

         5       I don't know your district, but I can not

         6       believe that, if we opened the door and took

         7       care of Senator Solomon's concern, that we are

         8       causing you political difficulty.

         9                      The only thing that would happen

        10       is that a Republican in this house would break

        11       precedent and maybe listen to something that was

        12       said by somebody else.  I -- I do find it help

        13       ful that Senator Goodman says he wrote a letter

        14       to the Rules Committee to consider the bill.

        15                      On the other hand, if it is not

        16       offensive to anyone, I would like to deal in the

        17       real world.  What's the Rules Committee? I mean

        18       it's Senator Bruno and it's some counsels, and

        19       we can write letters.  What does a letter do?

        20       I'm a lawyer.  I had a client call me today with

        21       a problem, and he wanted to know what to do.

        22       "Shall I call the other side?" and I said,

        23       "Baloney!  Write a letter."











                                                             
10238

         1                      So I'm glad Senator Goodman wrote

         2       a letter.  He said he tried to be helpful, even

         3       wrote a letter to the Rules Committee, but I'd

         4       like to deal in the real world.  I'd like to get

         5       Senator Solomon's bill out or I'd like to see

         6       Senator Nozzolio amend his bill and take care of

         7       the problem.

         8                      In taking care of the problem, we

         9       will also do some good for the people of New

        10       York State because, first have all, you won't

        11       have policemen having to wonder whether or not

        12       it will be an embarrassment for them to arrest

        13       an Orthodox Jew on a Sunday and then have

        14       everybody in the community hate the cop.  You

        15       won't have to contact the Liquor Authority on

        16       complaints they won't want to get because they

        17       hope these summonses are never issued and you

        18       will allow a segment of society that is

        19       generally every day law-abiding, to be

        20       law-abiding and yet take care of their needs.

        21                      The fact that it's not done is

        22       offensive, and I look around and I take a look

        23       at the Republican faces in this chamber and you











                                                             
10239

         1       don't want to be offensive particularly -- yours

         2       is always offensive -- but Senator Libous is in

         3       a class by himself.

         4                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Yeah.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  I wouldn't want to

         6       be in that class, but -- but you don't want to

         7       be offensive.  I understand that, I understand

         8       that, but the act of ignoring a significant part

         9       of the population is itself offensive, and I

        10       would urge Senator Nozzolio that you have an

        11       opportunity to do something about it and, if

        12       it's not done today or within the next hour, it

        13       should be done by way of Senator Solomon's bill,

        14       something should be done.

        15                      It will certainly be an issue, I

        16       can tell you, in some of the Jewish newspapers

        17       in the city of New York.  These people have been

        18       very, very good to our Governor, I'm told, and

        19       been pretty good to some of you, and they are

        20       not going to appreciate the press release that

        21       comes out of this session which says it was -

        22       there was time to take care of everybody else's

        23       problem in this area except theirs.











                                                             
10240

         1                      It's the wrong thing to do.  They

         2       don't deserve this treatment.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         4       Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       if the sponsor would yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         8       Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?

         9                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Certainly.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        11       Senator yields.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        13       Nozzolio, the -- you do recognize that there was

        14       a time when there couldn't be any sale of

        15       alcohol on a Sunday in New York; is that not

        16       correct?

        17                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes, it is

        18       correct, Senator, and I also recognize how there

        19       was a time that there was no such thing as a

        20       small farm winery.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, when

        22       that came into effect and we recognized the

        23       issue of tourism and the fact that it is the











                                                             
10241

         1       week end and people are not working at that

         2       particular time, we tried to make an adjustment

         3       to the wineries as long as the sale was made

         4       actually at the winery.  What we're doing

         5       through this legislation is expanding it and

         6       what we're now doing is, in my opinion -- or let

         7       me ask you what your opinion is.  Aren't we

         8       creating an unfair advantage for wineries who

         9       are located in New York State that they can have

        10       their product sold on Sundays and what we're

        11       doing to prevent the wineries from out of state

        12       from competing would be actually to ban them

        13       because they can't actually appear at the state

        14       fairs, and so, in a sense, by the time Monday

        15       comes around and they get to compete in the open

        16       market, we have actually used what was a

        17       religious notion to actually ban interstate

        18       sale?  Haven't we done that, Senator?

        19                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Oh, Mr.

        20       President, in response to the acting Minority

        21       Leader's question, I would have to say I didn't

        22       hear the last end, so I can't really answer it,

        23       but before I answer it, I wish to lay this bill











                                                             
10242

         1       aside temporarily.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         3       bill will be laid aside temporarily.

         4                      Secretary will read.

         5                      Senator Waldon.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      I was out of the chamber on other

         9       business when the Senate considered 1354 and

        10       1297.  I respectfully request unanimous consent

        11       to be recorded in the negative on those two.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        13       Without objection, Senator Waldon will be

        14       recorded in the negative on 1354 and 1297, is

        15       that correct?

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        17       President, if I can -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        19       Senator Dollinger.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Could I be

        21       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

        22       1356.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:











                                                             
10243

         1       Without objection, Senator Dollinger will be

         2       recorded in the negative on 1356.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         6       Senator Hannon.

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President, I

         8       was out of the chamber when the roll call was

         9       taken on Calendar Number 1299.  I'd like

        10       unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        11       affirmative on that.  That's Senate 3520.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        13       Senator, that was a slow roll call yesterday.

        14       The record will reflect, if you had been in the

        15       chamber, you would have voted in the

        16       affirmative.

        17                      Senator Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  Since we're doing these unanimous

        20       consent requests, I have two.  May I be recorded

        21       in the negative on Calendars 1358 and 1354,

        22       please.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Without











                                                             
10244

         1       objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in

         2       the negative on 1358 and 1354.

         3                      Senator Maltese.

         4                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         5       would you call up Calendar Number 748, the

         6       Senate Bill 19 -- 193B, by Senator Gold, which

         7       was previously laid aside temporarily.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         9       Secretary will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       748, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 193B, an act

        12       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

        13       to requiring child safety devices.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  Explanation.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        18       Explanation has been asked for, Senator Gold.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, thank you,

        20       Senator Hannon.

        21                      Senator, this is a bill which we

        22       put in, I think, a couple years ago and we're

        23       now to a "B" print, which we've negotiated with











                                                             
10245

         1       the people concerned, and the food merchants,

         2       and it basically would require that 25 percent

         3       of the carts that are provided by supermarkets

         4       would have some kind of aid for children.  It

         5       can be nothing more than a strap.

         6                      The food merchants were concerned

         7       about the original number.  We've worked with

         8       them.  I have a letter from Michael Rosen

         9       thanking us for the cooperation, indicating that

        10       the "B" print addresses their concerns and

        11       indicating that they are not opposed to the

        12       proposal.

        13                      I'm told that now the food

        14       merchants, together with the manufacturers of

        15       these belts, together with the Attorney General

        16       have worked this out, and I think that the food

        17       merchants at this point may even look at it as a

        18       positive from their own advertising.

        19                      There's nothing that requires

        20       anybody who goes shopping to use them, but the

        21       bottom line is that, if someone is shopping with

        22       children, it should be available.  I am informed

        23       that the cost factors are totally minimal, that











                                                             
10246

         1       the law can be complied with for a dollar or two

         2       or three.

         3                      If there's a problem with a

         4       violation, they are given time to correct the

         5       violation, and the bill will not take effect for

         6       360 days.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect one hundred -

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  I'm

        12       sorry, one second.

        13                      Senator Hannon.

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  I may just make

        15       some comments.  I don't want to make a big thing

        16       of this.  I realize that Senator Gold has this

        17       bill here and he believes it's going to be of

        18       some use, but having gone through six years of

        19       shopping with kids, I want to tell you, these

        20       straps that they now have in the carts that he

        21       seeks to promote are totally useless, probably

        22       unsafe, and it's hard to figure out what value

        23       they are.











                                                             
10247

         1                      Now, we're all familiar with the

         2       utility of car seats and use of seat belts and

         3       the very great safety that they afford when

         4       you're driving a car.  One would then think

         5       there's an analogy to these shopping carts, and

         6       I would totally disagree since they're nowhere

         7       near designed for anything, and they're more for

         8       the convenience of pushing the kid around, but

         9       if you put a seat belt on her, it makes it more

        10       difficult to use the seat, and it probably makes

        11       the kid squirm more, so this is -- this comes -

        12       my primary comment comes from having tried to

        13       use them and find them useless.

        14                      But Senator Gold's comments cause

        15       me to really read these things again and, you

        16       know, it makes it all the more quizzical why one

        17       would support a bill like this.  Reasonable

        18       engineering standards are called for.  This, of

        19       course, presumes that there are unreasonable

        20       engineering standards in other sections of law

        21       that we're now going to wipe out.  I would

        22       presume anything is a reasonable engineering

        23       standard, because no place else in the bill do I











                                                             
10248

         1       find any reference to anybody who's going to set

         2       those engineering standards.

         3                      But then what is even more

         4       quizzical is what's the 25 percent of, because

         5       we're now going to require every grocery store

         6       or whatever type of other retail operation that

         7       is using shopping carts to keep an inventory of

         8       the total number of shopping carts that would be

         9       up to date so you could tell what the 25 percent

        10       is.

        11                      Seems a little ridiculous, but

        12       then when I went to see whether there was a

        13       reasonable fine or penalty, I realized that lo

        14       and behold, that this great crying need for

        15       safety in the supermarket aisles will require

        16       the intervention of the Attorney General if

        17       there's a violation.  So I'm not even sure that

        18       you have a useful enforcement here.

        19                      So I commend Senator Gold for his

        20       concern, but I'm wondering if this is, you know,

        21       the right way to do it, the proper way to do it,

        22       and whether we really need to have this type of

        23       legislation.  So I mean we haven't gone through











                                                             
10249

         1       the -

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  We haven't gone

         4       through -- I don't have all of the oratorical

         5       skills and -- and the way to think out all of

         6       the possible implications in a piece of legis

         7       lation that the proponent to this bill would,

         8       but I do think this measure is not without its

         9       defects.

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        13       Senator Gold.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  I appreciate

        15       Senator Hannon's feelings and his sincerity and

        16       obviously, Senator Hannon, if this is the law

        17       just as today the markets have these available,

        18       you certainly don't have to use one of those.

        19       You can use one of the other carts and anyone

        20       who has -- who finds them difficult can do

        21       that.

        22                      I would point out that the

        23       Attorney General's office and the food merchants











                                                             
10250

         1       and the manufacturers have all been involved and

         2       are very happy with what the language says and,

         3       as a matter of fact, I understand that they are

         4       already almost in compliance because they feel

         5       now that we've discussed this issue out that

         6       they have more to gain than to lose in the way

         7       of good public relations.

         8                      So, if you realize that 75

         9       percent of these carts are not mandated to have

        10       anything, there are a sufficient number of

        11       carts, Senator, for those people who may, as

        12       you, feel that there is something wrong.

        13       Meanwhile, I don't want to draw this as the most

        14       significant bill of the session, but I think it

        15       will save some kids from getting hurt, and it

        16       will make it available to those parents who find

        17       putting a strap around their child not to be too

        18       complicated.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect 360 days next succeeding

        23       the date.











                                                             
10251

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         5       Senator Oppenheimer, you want to explain your

         6       vote?

         7                      Senator Oppenheimer.

         8                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm

         9       fortunate that, in my area, most of our

        10       supermarkets did have these restraints for

        11       children, and I must say I have used them for

        12       many years, and I find them a very valuable

        13       addition to those carts.

        14                      SENATOR JONES:  If you use them.

        15                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  The

        16       children are always trying to creep out.  I

        17       think it's a wonderful bill.  I vote yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        19       Announce the vote.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 748 are Senators

        22       DeFrancisco, DiCarlo, Hannon, Holland, Johnson,

        23       Kuhl, Larkin, Maziarz, Wright and Nozzolio.











                                                             
10252

         1       Ayes 45, nays 10.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      Senator Maltese.

         5                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         6       there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

         7       Committee in Room 332.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  There

         9       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        10       Committee in Room 332.

        11                      Secretary will read.  Senator

        12       Maltese.

        13                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        14       will you call up Calendar 1371, Senate Number

        15       5079, by Senator Hoblock.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        17       Secretary will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1371, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print Number

        20       5079, an act to amend the Lobbying Act, in

        21       relation to the use of '800' telephone numbers.

        22                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Explanation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:











                                                             
10253

         1       Senator Mendez.  Explanation is asked for.

         2                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      This is an amendment to the

         5       Lobbying Act that, if a lobbyist is required to

         6       register pursuant to this act and employs or

         7       contracts the use of an '800' telephone number

         8       for certain information in connection with that

         9       contract agreement then the background of the

        10       use of that '800' number including a script must

        11       be on file.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        13       Senator Mendez.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Hoblock,

        15       we were wondering why can't we also have the

        16       '800' numbers filed with us for political

        17       committees?

        18                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  My

        19       understanding, as far as political committees

        20       are concerned, there is a byline at the end of

        21       the commercial who pays for it, and what we've

        22       found, and the reason for this legislation is,

        23       Senator Mendez, what's happened is a number of











                                                             
10254

         1       these groups have got together, formed these

         2       coalitions, and we don't know who they are,

         3       where in a political advertisement, you do

         4       know.

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Explanation is

         6       satisfactory.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        19       Senator Cook.

        20                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

        21       could I be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        22       Number 748, please.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  With











                                                             
10255

         1       unanimous consent, Senator Cook will be recorded

         2       in the negative on Calendar Number 748.

         3                      Senator Oppenheimer.

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'd like

         5       unanimous consent to be in the negative on

         6       Calendar Number 1276.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         8       Senator Oppenheimer in the negative on Calendar

         9       Number 1276, with unanimous consent.

        10                      Senator Mendez.

        11                      Senator Maltese.

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        13       would you call up Calendar Number 1374, Senate

        14       Bill Number 5432A, by Senator Levy.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1374, by Senator Levy, Senate Print Number

        19       5342A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        20       Law, in relation to establishing an advisory

        21       committee.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        23       Explanation.











                                                             
10256

         1                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         3       Senator Mendez.

         4                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Senator Gold has

         5       great interest in this bill.  He is in the

         6       Committee on Rules meeting right now.  We'll be

         7       sending for him.  Do you want to wait it out

         8       just temporary for a few minutes?

         9                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Bill

        12       will be temporarily -

        13                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Excuse me.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  I

        15       guess Senator Gold is here.

        16                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Levy, will

        18       you yield to a question?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        20       Senator, will you yield?  Senator yields.

        21                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Levy,

        23       yes.  The question is just a simple one.  This











                                                             
10257

         1       basically sets up an advisory committee, is that

         2       correct?

         3                      SENATOR LEVY:  It re-establishes

         4       it.  It lapsed and it really did terrific work

         5       in trying to deal with the on -- the ongoing

         6       problems that relate to the weight of vehicles

         7       involved in heavy construction.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator, if

         9       you'll yield to one more question.

        10                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is there a cost

        12       factor connected with this?

        13                      SENATOR LEVY:  There -- in the

        14       past there really hasn't been.  It operated

        15       under the aegis of DOT personnel who were the

        16       staff people that were involved in doing the

        17       work on behalf of the committee.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator Levy

        19        -- Mr. President, on the bill.

        20                      I'd like to thank you, Senator

        21       Levy.  You say that there's no cost associated

        22       with this, Senator, and I will tell you in

        23       public right to your face, I find you credible











                                                             
10258

         1       on that issue.  And why do I want you to be

         2       credible on that issue?  Because I, and I think

         3       some others have been told that some suggestions

         4       we have for some advisory committees such as the

         5       one I've put in for SIDS babies who die of

         6       Sudden Infant Death Syndrome are being held up

         7       by your counsels because they say, with the

         8       budget problems, that these advisory councils

         9       can be a budgetary problem.

        10                      I don't think they are, Senator.

        11       I think that some of the advisory councils such

        12       as the one you're suggesting today, Senator

        13       Levy, are very, very good and they can operate

        14       with almost no budgetary consequences, and I

        15       would ask your counsels to listen to you,

        16       because your answer is the correct one, and I'd

        17       like to see some action on some of those that I

        18       have suggested and other people have suggested

        19       without being told that we are infringing on the

        20       Governor's budget.

        21                      Thank you.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
10259

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Maltese.

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        11       would you call up Calendar 583, Senate 4146A, by

        12       Senator Levy.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        14       Secretary will read.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       583, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4146A, an act

        17       to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to

        18       requiring the Commissioner of Transportation to

        19       take an annual inventory.

        20                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Last section.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
10260

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      Senator Maltese.

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        10       would you call up Calendar 1233, Senate Bill

        11       3856A, by Senator Libous.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        13       Secretary will read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1233, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3856A, an

        16       act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation

        17       to receivership of residential facilities.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        19       is there a message?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Yes,

        21       there is a message at the desk.

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Move to accept

        23       the message.











                                                             
10261

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Motion

         2       to accept the message.  All in favor say aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      All opposed say no.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The message is accepted.

         7                      Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 10.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        17       would you call up 1283, Senate Print 4864A, by

        18       Senator Cook.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        20       Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1283, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4864A, an

        23       act to amend the Public Officers Law, in











                                                             
10262

         1       relation to the defense and indemnification of

         2       members.

         3                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, is

         4       there a message at the desk?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  There

         6       is a message.

         7                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Move we accept

         8       the message.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        10       motion to accept the message, all in favor say

        11       aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed say nay.

        14                      (There was no response. )

        15                      The message is accepted.

        16                      Last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The











                                                             
10263

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

         3       can we go to Calendar Number 1293, please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         5       Secretary will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1293, by Senator Lack, Senate Print Number

         8       1297A, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court

         9       Procedure Act, in relation to the statute of

        10       limitations.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect 60 days after the date on

        15       which it shall have become law.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      Senator Velella.

        23                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Can we go to











                                                             
10264

         1       Calendar 1362, now, please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1362, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3002A, an

         6       act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation

         7       to eliminating utilities as installers.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        10       Explanation has been requested.  Senator

        11       Johnson.

        12                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        13       presently under the Home Insulation and Energy

        14       Conservation Act, utilities are required to

        15       maintain a -- a list of qualified and partici

        16       pating suppliers and contractors.  What this

        17       says is, instead of saying "shall" maintain the

        18       list, it says they "may" maintain the list, but

        19       it says if they do, it must be in a

        20       non-discriminatory manner.

        21                      This bill is introduced primarily

        22       because some contractors who are qualified have

        23       been excluded from the program by utilities,











                                                             
10265

         1       particularly local on Long Island.  We like the

         2       program to be open -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         4       Senator Johnson, can we have that door closed in

         5       back of you.

         6                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I'll get it

         7       closed.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Thank

         9       you, Senator.

        10                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  So this opens

        11       up the ability through these contracts under the

        12       Home Insulation and Energy Conservation Act to

        13       all qualified contractors.

        14                      Any question?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        16       Senator Smith.

        17                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you.  Will

        18       the sponsor yield to a few questions?

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

        20                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you.  Would

        21       this bill, in essence, increase the cost to

        22       certain users in the five boroughs who may be in

        23       the Brooklyn Union Gas or Con Edison area?











                                                             
10266

         1                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Users?  You

         2       mean like persons who use the gas service or

         3       electric service?

         4                      SENATOR SMITH:  There's special

         5        -- if I'm not mistaken, there are certain

         6       contractors for the use of Brooklyn Union Gas

         7       and with Con Edison for these services and those

         8       that are currently using the services would

         9       receive an increase because of this particular

        10       bill.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, this

        12       really doesn't refer to continuing service from

        13       the utility.  This pertains to essentially

        14       retrofitting their home to be energy-efficient.

        15                      SENATOR SMITH:  Yes, but not to

        16       cut you off, but they have service contracts

        17       with Brooklyn Union Gas Company.

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  But Senator,

        19       this does not apply to contracts.  This applies

        20       to like if your house is being retrofitted for

        21       the winter, you could have a new furnace, you

        22       could have new insulation, you could have new

        23       storm windows, they have a list of contractors











                                                             
10267

         1       now and no other contractor can participate in

         2       that program.  It's not a continuing service

         3       contract type of arrangement.

         4                      SENATOR SMITH:  I beg to differ

         5       with you.  There is a service contract with the

         6       company.

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, I

         8       think you're discussing another bill.  This bill

         9       does not pertain to any service contractual type

        10       arrangement.  Any -- all this says, all this

        11       says, Senator, is that they shall open up the

        12       list.  It says "and may with the permission of

        13       the commission, maintain the list" to more

        14       contractors, but whoever the contractor is,

        15       whatever the arrangement is will not be changed,

        16       it will just be more contractors that are able

        17       to participate in the program.

        18                      SENATOR SMITH:  I'm going to sit

        19       down and defer to my colleague.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        21       Senator Paterson is next, Senator DiCarlo.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        23       Johnson, you've amended the bill and so what I











                                                             
10268

         1       want to ask you is now that you have changed it

         2       and said that they may involve other contractors

         3       in the process, isn't it continuing the

         4       protection that we're trying to set up for

         5       consumers in the first place because the

         6       contractors that were made available by utility

         7       companies, which would have protected the

         8       consumers in the first place from, you know,

         9       just looking up the individual or the contractor

        10       in the Yellow Pages and just finding someone who

        11       may not have really complied with a lot of the

        12       regulations in which they could conduct some of

        13       the energy cost savings that -- measures that

        14       they can -

        15                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Your question

        16       is, will the people not have the protection of

        17       having their -- the contractor screened by that

        18       utility, is that your question?

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, exactly,

        20       Senator.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, it

        22       doesn't say everyone who wants to get on the

        23       list has to be on it.  It says that the utility











                                                             
10269

         1       with the permission of the commission, may

         2       prepare and maintain a list of qualified and

         3       existing suppliers in a non-discriminatory

         4       manner; in other words, that these people are

         5       not good actors, if they don't do good work,

         6       they don't finish the job, if there are problems

         7       with their work, they don't have to be put on

         8       the list.  They'd have to meet the same

         9       standard.

        10                      Every contractor who is licensed

        11       and doesn't have a bad record or is licensed by

        12       the Consumer Protection Board, if he's qualified

        13       to do the work, he should be able to do the work

        14       and he shouldn't be excluded because the utility

        15       has certain pet people they like to deal with

        16       and they don't want to deal with anyone else.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  And that's

        18       precisely why I would imagine that you drafted

        19       the legislation because there was a contractor

        20       or there had been contractors who were licensed

        21       who had not been in any kind of trouble who had

        22       not been brought before any consumer protection

        23       boards, but they were not on the list, is that











                                                             
10270

         1       correct?

         2                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  That's correct,

         3       yes.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  The only

         5       reservation, I guess, that the Energy Council

         6       had was that, by expanding the list you might

         7       bring in individuals that were not necessarily

         8       qualified, but it seems that your amendment has

         9       addressed it.  How does the Energy Council feel

        10       now?

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, they

        12       commented on the original bill and they didn't

        13       comment on the amended bill, and I don't think

        14       we have any negative memo on the amended bill.

        15       I may be wrong, but I don't have it in my

        16       possession, so I think there -

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I assume,

        18       Senator, that since the -- the quotient of their

        19       criticism is really addressed by your amendment,

        20       that we could at least assume that -- that the

        21       bill as it stands now would be fine.

        22                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Thank you,

        23       Senator.











                                                             
10271

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         2       Senator DiCarlo.

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Would the

         4       Senator yield?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         6       Senator, do you yield?

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         9       Senator yields.

        10                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I think Senator

        11       Smith and I, when this bill first came out, we

        12       had been notified by Brooklyn Union about a

        13       piece of legislation that would have turned

        14       around many of the service contracts for our

        15       constituents in Brooklyn.  I think that's a

        16       different piece of legislation that Senator

        17       Smith may be thinking about.  Is that true, do

        18       you know?

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  That's

        20       correct.  This is only insulation on energy

        21       saving things.  Doesn't deal with maintenance,

        22       doesn't deal with -- the bill which you talk

        23       about is not being advanced at this time.











                                                             
10272

         1                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         3       the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         7       the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      Senator Marcellino.

        13                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        14       President, is there any housekeeping at the

        15       desk?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Yes,

        17       we have some substitutions.  We can do the

        18       substitutions if you please.

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Can we do

        20       those, please?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        22       Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 13,











                                                             
10273

         1       Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge from the

         2       Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 7435,

         3       and substitute it for the identical Calendar

         4       Number 633.

         5                      On page 19, Senator Goodman moves

         6       to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         7       Assembly Bill Number 6138 and substitute it for

         8       the identical Calendar Number 799.

         9                      On page 36, Senator Saland moves

        10       to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        11       Assembly Bill Number 8095 and substitute it for

        12       the identical Calendar Number 1379.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        14       Substitutions ordered.

        15                      Housekeeping, Senator DiCarlo?

        16                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Yes, Mr.

        17       President.  On behalf of Senator Maltese, please

        18       place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1343.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        20       Sponsor's star will be placed on 1343 for

        21       Senator Maltese.

        22                      Any other housekeeping?

        23                      Senator Marcellino.











                                                             
10274

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         2       President, can we return to motions of standing

         3       committees -- reports of standing committees.

         4       Is there a report from the Rules Committee.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         6       Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,

         8       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         9       following bills:

        10                      Senate Print 31A, by Senator

        11       Hannon, in relation to the sales tax imposed on

        12       club dues;

        13                      203, by Senator Holland, an act

        14       to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

        15       increasing the allocation of funds;

        16                      467, by Senator Holland, an act

        17       to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to

        18       including portable X-ray services;

        19                      735, by Senator Jones, an act to

        20       authorize the Commissioner of the Department of

        21       Transportation to abandon certain canal lands;

        22                      1350A, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

        23       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in











                                                             
10275

         1       relation to leaving the scene of an accident

         2       without reporting;

         3                      1578A, by Senator Larkin, an act

         4       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

         5       to subjecting certain state lands;

         6                      2304A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

         7       act to amend the Canal Law, in relation to

         8       making conforming amendments;

         9                      2555A, by Senator Larkin, an act

        10       to amend the Town Law and the County Law, in

        11       relation to the establishment and extension of

        12       fire districts;

        13                      2643A, by Senator Goodman, an act

        14       to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to

        15       establishing dispute settlement programs;

        16                      3184A, by Senator Wright, an act

        17       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        18       to subjecting lands within the Tug Hill region

        19       to taxation;

        20                      3205, by Senator Spano, an act to

        21       amend the Retirement and Social Security Law, in

        22       relation to uniformed court officers;

        23                      3382A, by Senator Skelos, an act











                                                             
10276

         1       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

         2       to the qualifications for a private

         3       investigator's license;

         4                      3560, by Senator Johnson, an act

         5       to amend the General Obligations Law, in

         6       relation to liability of landowners receiving

         7       certain consideration;

         8                      3686A, by Senator Larkin, an act

         9       to amend the Real Property Law and the Real

        10       Property Tax Law, in relation to the assessment

        11       of property of homeowners;

        12                      3736, by Senator LaValle, an act

        13       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation

        14       to creating the town of Southampton Community

        15       Development Agency;

        16                      4049, by Senator DiCarlo, an act

        17       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation

        18       to paid leave for disaster service volunteers;

        19                      4158, by Senator Leibell, an act

        20       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation

        21       to urban development action;

        22                      4225B, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

        23       act to amend the County Law, the General











                                                             
10277

         1       Municipal Law and the Education Law, in relation

         2       to the appointment as private college campus

         3       security officers;

         4                      4398, by Senator Spano, an act to

         5       amend the Local Finance Law, in relation to

         6       bonds and notes of the city of Yonkers;

         7                      4884A, by Senator Seward, an act

         8       to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act,

         9       in relation to provision of non-basic

        10       telecommunications services;

        11                      5222, by Senator Goodman, an act

        12       to amend the Tax Law, in relation to an

        13       amendment of a lease by a cooperative housing

        14       corporation;

        15                      5380, by Senator LaValle, an act

        16       in relation to creating a tax stabilization

        17       reserve fund; and

        18                      5395A, by Senator Velella, an act

        19       to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to

        20       the testing of pregnant women for the human

        21       immunodeficiency virus.

        22                      All bills ordered directly for

        23       third reading.











                                                             
10278

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         2       President, I move we accept the report of the

         3       Rules Committee.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  All in

         5       favor of accepting the Rules Committee report

         6       say aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed say nay.

         9                      (Response of "Nay.")

        10                      The rules report is accepted.

        11                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Recognize

        12       Senator Levy.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        14       Senator Levy.

        15                      SENATOR LEVY:  I'd like to

        16       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        17       negative on 1276.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        19       Without objection, Senator Levy is recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar 1276.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Can we

        22       recognize Senator Santiago, please.

        23                      SENATOR SANTIAGO: I'd like to











                                                             
10279

         1       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

         2       negative on Calendars 1297, 1354 and 1358.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         4       Without objection, the Senator will be recorded

         5       in the negative on those three calendar

         6       items.

         7                      Senator Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         9       President, could we take up Senate Supplemental

        10       Calendar Number 1, non-controversial, please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        12       Secretary will read.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1366, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 31A, an

        15       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the

        16       sales tax imposed on club dues.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

        18       please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Laid

        20       aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1386, by Senator Holland.

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.











                                                             
10280

         1       President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         3       Senator Marcellino.

         4                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Can we have

         5       a brief pause for -- at the request of our

         6       Deputy Minority Leader to catch his breath.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         8       Senate will stand at ease temporarily, just a

         9       brief pause, not at ease, just a brief pause.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Senator

        13       Marcellino.

        14                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  May we now

        15       call up Calendar Number 1218.  I believe there's

        16       a home rule message at the desk.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  There

        18       is a home rule message at the desk.  The

        19       Secretary will read it.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 28,

        21       Calendar Number 1218, by Senator Maltese, Senate

        22       Print 3718A, an act to amend the Administrative

        23       Code of the city of New York, in relation to the











                                                             
10281

         1       title and compensation of certain police

         2       sergeants.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  There is a home

         6       rule message.  We mentioned that.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      Senator Marcellino.

        16                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        19       Senator Marcellino.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  May we

        21       return to the non-controversial calendar,

        22       Supplemental Number 1.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:











                                                             
10282

         1       Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1366, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 31A, an

         4       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the

         5       sales tax imposed on club dues.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

         7       please.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Laid

         9       aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1386, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 203, an

        12       act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

        13       increasing the allocation of funds.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      Senator Gold.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  One second,

        18       please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  One

        20       second.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Lay it

        22       aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Lay











                                                             
10283

         1       the bill aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1387, by Senator Holland, Senate Print Number

         4       467 -

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         7       Senator Gold.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  I don't

         9       have any objection to -- to your bill, 18...

        10       1386.  I'd like to explain my vote, but if you'd

        11       like to call it up, I don't have any objection.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Can we

        13       return to 1386, please.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1386, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 203, an

        16       act to amend the Judiciary Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        18       Senator Gold to explain his vote.  Read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        21       act shall take effect on the first day of

        22       April.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call











                                                             
10284

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         4       Senator Gold to explain his vote.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

         6       there was a day, I guess maybe a year or two ago

         7       when I sat at a committee meeting and your first

         8       bill came up, and I was disgusted and shocked at

         9       the problem and very proud of you for at least

        10       trying to deal with it but, as I looked into the

        11       problem, I found that while we are increasing

        12       the amount of money that goes to the client

        13       protection fund, I am unconvinced that the $40

        14       additional amount of money makes the fund

        15       solvent, and the way I understand the fund has

        16       been operated is that they only take so many

        17       claims to process because they've only got a

        18       certain amount of money, rather than processing

        19       all of the claims and getting the money.

        20                      Now, when we originally, thanks

        21       to former Senator "Cadillac" Smith, put in this

        22       fee for lawyers, the argument behind it was that

        23       we would create a fund and take care of clients











                                                             
10285

         1       who were injured.  Then we got to the point

         2       where we started limiting the amount of money

         3       that went to the client fund and putting the

         4       other money elsewhere.

         5                      While I will support this bill

         6       because the hundred dollars is better than 60,

         7       Senator Holland, I don't think we've gone far

         8       enough.  As much money as is taken from these

         9       fees as is necessary to pay injured clients

        10       ought to be available and the money should not

        11       be diverted.  So, Senator Holland, you have my

        12       congratulations for dealing at least in some way

        13       with the problem, but it is in no way curing

        14       this problem, and there are people who have been

        15       injured by -- by lawyers who have defrauded

        16       their own clients, who are not being paid and

        17       that's our fault because we have diverted some

        18       of that money.

        19                      I vote in the affirmative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The











                                                             
10286

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Secretary will read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       387, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 467.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

         6       please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Lay

         8       aside, please.

         9                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        12       Senator.

        13                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  May I have

        14       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        15       on Calendar Number 1270?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  You

        17       were recorded in the negative on 1270.

        18                      Secretary will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1388, by Senator Jones, Senate Print Number 735,

        21       an act to authorize the Commissioner of the

        22       Department of Transportation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Last











                                                             
10287

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1390, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print

        12       Number 1350A, an act to amend the Vehicle and

        13       Traffic Law, in relation to leaving the scene of

        14       an accident without reporting.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the first day of

        19       November.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.











                                                             
10288

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1391, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1578A, an

         5       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

         6       relation to subjecting certain state lands.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         8       the roll -- read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect April 1st.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1392, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        19       2304A, an act to amend the Canal Law, in

        20       relation to making conforming amendments.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 38.  This











                                                             
10289

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1393, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2555A, an

        10       act to amend the Town Law and County Law, in

        11       relation to establishment and extension of fire

        12       districts.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 14.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10290

         1       1394, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 2643A, an

         2       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

         3       to establishing dispute settlement programs.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1359, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3184A, an

        16       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        17       relation to subjecting lands within the Tug Hill

        18       region to taxation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect on the first day of

        23       January.











                                                             
10291

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1396, by Senator Spano, Senate Print Number

         9       3205, an act to amend the Retirement and Social

        10       Security Law, in relation to uniform court

        11       officers.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar...

        23       Senator Skelos moves to discharge from the











                                                             
10292

         1       Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6108A,

         2       and substitute it for the identical Calendar

         3       Number 1397.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         5       Substitution ordered.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1397, by member of the Assembly Weisenberg,

         8       Assembly Print 6108A, an act to amend the

         9       General Business Law, in relation to

        10       qualifications for a private investigator's

        11       license.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        21       bill is passed.  Senator Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Negative.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:











                                                             
10293

         1       Announce the results.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays

         3       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  1398, by Senator

         7       Johnson, Senate Print 3560.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Lay

        10       the bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1399.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        14       bill is high.  Laid aside, please.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1400, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3736, an

        17       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        18       relation to creating the town of Southampton

        19       Community Development Agency.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  There

        21       is a home rule message at the desk.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section -

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read











                                                             
10294

         1       the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1402, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 4049, an

        12       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        13       relation to paid leave for disaster service

        14       volunteers.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        16       There's a home rule message at the desk.  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.











                                                             
10295

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1403, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4158, an

         5       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         6       relation to urban development action area

         7       projects.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1404, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        20       4225B, an act to amend the County Law, the

        21       General Municipal Law and the Education Law, in

        22       relation -

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.











                                                             
10296

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Lay

         2       the bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1405, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 4398,

         5       Local Finance Law, in relation to bonds and

         6       notes of the city of Yonkers.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  There

         8       is no home rule message at the desk.  Please lay

         9       the bill aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1406, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4884A,

        12       State Administrative Procedure Act, in relation

        13       to provision of non-basic telecommunications

        14       services.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The











                                                             
10297

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1407, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5222, an

         4       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to an

         5       amendment of a lease by a cooperative housing

         6       corporation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1408, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5380, an

        19       act in relation to creating a tax stabilization

        20       reserve fund.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
10298

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Call

         3       the roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1409, by Senator Velella.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The

        11       bill is high.  Lay it aside, please.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        16       Senator Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  May I

        18       have unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        19       negative on Calendar Number 1406.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        21       Without objection, Senator Leichter will be

        22       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1406.

        23                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10299

         1       may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in

         2       the negative on Calendar Number 1207?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

         4       Without objection -

         5                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President.

         6       Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  Sorry,

         8       Senator Onorato.  1207 has not passed, Calendar

         9       1207 has not passed.

        10                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Oh.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        12       Senator Mendez.

        13                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President,

        14       may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in

        15       the negative on Calendar Number 1406?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:

        17       Senator Mendez will be in the negative on 1406

        18       without objection.

        19                      Senator Marcellino.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        21       President, can we go to the controversial

        22       calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND:  The











                                                             
10300

         1       Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1366, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 31A, an

         4       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the

         5       sales tax imposed on club dues.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         8       Explanation, Senator Hannon.

         9                      SENATOR HANNON:  This legislation

        10       would clarify that the fees collected by home

        11       owners associations are exempt from sales and

        12       use taxes.  This is not something that's

        13       enforced now on a consistent widespread basis.

        14       The Tax Department had issued an opinion saying

        15       that a portion of homeowners association dues

        16       allocated to the maintenance of recreation

        17       facilities are taxable as membership so that

        18       this is designed to correct that opinion and to

        19       overturn that opinion.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        23       if Senator Hannon would yield.











                                                             
10301

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         2       Senator Hannon, do you yield?

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator,

         5       aren't you, by enacting this law, going against

         6       the spirit of the law that already exists?  In

         7       other words, what you're trying to accomplish is

         8       exactly what the law wants you not to accomplish

         9       because over and beyond a certain amount such as

        10       $10, we have determined as lawmakers before that

        11       this is a taxable sum of money.

        12                      Now, where you have fraternal

        13       organizations or home management organizations

        14       that -- for perhaps rental of areas and they're

        15       dues paying and that kind of thing.  These are,

        16       you know, I don't know whether or not they

        17       should be taxable but, if I was going to address

        18       this problem, what I would suggest is that maybe

        19       you raise the amount of money by which dues can

        20       be collected before they're taxable rather than

        21       picking a few areas that are suitable not to be

        22       taxable and having some that are because that

        23       really smacks of a certain preferential











                                                             
10302

         1       treatment for certain and the denial of the same

         2       service for others.

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  I -- Senator,

         4       with all due respect, I'd have to -- I don't

         5       know exactly what your question would be, sir.

         6       I'd like -- let me give you the rationale and

         7       give you the -

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Let me give

         9       you the question in one statement.  Don't you

        10       think you're going against the spirit of the law

        11       as it exists right now?

        12                      SENATOR HANNON:  Not only would I

        13       say absolutely not.  I would say the spirit of

        14       this, this is -- the bill, the new part of this

        15       bill deals with the homeowners associations and

        16       these are -- would include a cooperative assoc

        17       iation.  Apartment could open and the idea of

        18       the real estate development that has taken place

        19       has been to offer these clubs as part and parcel

        20       of either the co-op or the condo or the home

        21       owners association, and the idea was it was an

        22       incident of ownership of the unit and,

        23       therefore, had nothing to do with the retail











                                                             
10303

         1       sales in any which way and, therefore, when the

         2       advisory opinion of the Tax Department came

         3       along, they looked at it and said, Wait a

         4       minute, this is over-reaching, maybe it's

         5       embraced in the law, but it certainly is not the

         6       spirit, and it's not the intention and,

         7       therefore, we would correct it.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, maybe

         9       you're misunderstanding me.  I don't think that

        10       that is such a bad thing, what you're trying to

        11       do.  Actually, I think it's a good thing.  What

        12       I'm asking you is, what about other social

        13       organizations and groups that are benefiting

        14       from dues practices in the same way that the

        15       ones you've addressed in this legislation is?

        16                      It's -- I don't have a problem

        17       with you putting them in, I just have a problem

        18       with you leaving the others out.

        19                      SENATOR HANNON:  To the extent

        20       that I know about any -- very frankly, I don't

        21       know of any others that were included.  I don't

        22       know that we've treated anybody unequally

        23       because I don't know that there's anybody out











                                                             
10304

         1       there.  I'm certainly willing to entertain it if

         2       you point us in that direction.  What we have

         3       tried to do is have an equal treatment and have

         4       a logical treatment.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, let

         6       me give you an example.  What about say, for

         7       instance, a neighborhood pool, everybody pays to

         8       be a part of the organization that runs the

         9       pool, everybody gets to use the pool.  Would

        10       that be tax-exempt?

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  To my knowledge,

        12       neighborhood pools would not -- if they were

        13       doing it for profit, should be taxed.  If

        14       they're an -- if they're an exercise

        15       organization, a Jack LaLanne, they ought to be

        16       taxed, but this is not where it's being run on a

        17       for-profit basis.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, we would

        19       say -

        20                      SENATOR HANNON:  Notice -

        21       notice, and what we're doing here is, one of the

        22       criteria for the exclusion is operating social

        23       or athletic facilities located in such area for











                                                             
10305

         1       use by such owners or residents.  In other

         2       words, what you have to do is really be a part

         3       and parcel of the organization and in our

         4       discussion with the Tax Department, we said if

         5       you would open it up and, therefore, be akin to

         6       a Jack LaLanne, well, then you ought to get

         7       taxed.  That would be in the nature of a retail

         8       or commercial operation.  We're not excluding

         9       it.  What we're trying to do is exclude just for

        10       the use of the owners or their guests.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Then I thank

        12       you for the explanation, Senator, because, just

        13       so -

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  Just one other

        15       thing.  We say for such use whether or not

        16       exclusive.  Now, the point is there would have

        17       to be at some point, you know, you could invite

        18       your grandchildren over, your cousin or

        19       something like that.  That was the thought of

        20       allowing incidental use, but it would be far too

        21       difficult to detail all of that in statute, so

        22       when there is some type of de minimus extraneous

        23       use by those people who are not owners or











                                                             
10306

         1       residents, that would be allowable.  However, to

         2       the extent it would go beyond being de minimus,

         3       then it would be taxable.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator,

         5       there's no cap to how high the fees might be

         6       charged, is there?

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  No.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  O.K. Well, Mr.

         9       President, the Senator has addressed the issues

        10       that were of concern to us, and it's good to

        11       have on record that the Senator has expressed

        12       that these were all of the sort of private

        13       organizations that he could think of, but if

        14       this issue were to come up because after his

        15       explanation I can't think of any more, so I

        16       would say that Senator Hannon is correct, if

        17       there were some that I'm not thinking of that

        18       arise in the future, hopefully this discussion

        19       will shed light on the fact that they will be

        20       included as well.

        21                      SENATOR HANNON:  I just say I

        22       think your points are well taken, Senator, and

        23       glad you asked those questions.











                                                             
10307

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the first day of the

         5       quarterly sales tax period.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Call

         7       the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1387, by Senator Holland, Senate Print Number

        14       467, an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        15       relation to including portable X-ray services.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        18       Senator Holland, an explanation has been asked

        19       for.

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr.

        21       President, this bill allows for portable X-ray

        22       services to be directly reimbursed by Medicaid.

        23       It will improve care for those who are least











                                                             
10308

         1       able to be transported to an X-ray facility and

         2       decrease costs associated with transportation.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

         4       Holland, the City, the mayor is objecting to

         5       this because he feels it will increase the

         6       City's costs.  I don't know whether it does or

         7       it doesn't.  I'm asking you if you know.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I wouldn't

         9       think so, Senator.  It will make it much easier

        10       on the clients.  It will reduce the cost of

        11       transportation.  It will save Medicaid money on

        12       the cost of transportation and should lower the

        13       rates available for portable X-rays, and they

        14       can go to one facility and X-ray a number of

        15       people at that facility at the same time.

        16                      Did he tell you why he was -- he

        17       thought it would increase costs?

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Who, the

        19       mayor?

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  He just

        22       thought patients, but I think you've addressed

        23       the issue, Senator, and actually, last year the











                                                             
10309

         1       Governor vetoed it for some reason because he

         2       thought it would lead to more fraud, but I don't

         3       see how that could be the case, do you?

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Well, sir, in

         5       fact, Medicaid requires an attending physician

         6       to specify the area of the need for the patient,

         7       the area exposed and the number of radiographs

         8       to be obtained.  I don't believe so, sir.

         9                      Certainly, we'll watch that for

        10       fraud and abuse.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, in that

        12       case, sir, I think we can pass this bill

        13       immediately.  I don't think we need to read the

        14       last section.  Just pass the bill.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Thank you very

        16       much.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
10310

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1398, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3560, an

         6       act to amend the General Obligations Law, in

         7       relation to liability of landowners.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  An

        10       explanation has been asked for.

        11                      Senator Johnson.  Senator

        12       Skelos?

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  While we're

        14       waiting for Senator Johnson to come back in the

        15       chambers, all right, could you call up Senator

        16       DeFrancisco's bill, Calendar Number 1404,

        17       please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        19       Secretary will read 1404.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1404, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        22       Number 4225B, an act to amend the County Law,

        23       the General Municipal Law and the Education Law,











                                                             
10311

         1       in relation to the appointment as private

         2       college security officers.

         3                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         5       Explanation is asked for.  Senator DeFrancisco.

         6                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  This bill

         7       was prepared at the request of Syracuse

         8       University.  Substantial concern, as with other

         9       universities, where the security officers that

        10       are on the campuses have no authority other than

        11       simply the authority to make a citizen's

        12       arrest.

        13                      Several weeks ago, we passed a

        14       bill which basically stated that we wanted

        15       universities to report crime statistics and,

        16       quite frankly, we can report all we want if

        17       those security officers that are on the campuses

        18       don't have some authority to arrest other than a

        19       citizen's arrest, merely reporting them isn't

        20       going to do any good.

        21                      What this bill would do is that

        22       it would -- it would allow for either a -

        23       the sheriff or the chief of police in the











                                                             
10312

         1       jurisdiction where the university is, to appoint

         2       officers that would be security officers at the

         3       university, but be paid by the university and

         4       the university -- the officers would, instead of

         5       just having citizen's arrest authority, they

         6       would have arrest to -- the power to arrest

         7       based upon probable cause.

         8                      Lastly, this could not take place

         9       unless the jurisdiction itself is -- would pass

        10       legislation that would allow this to happen, so

        11       the locality would have to make that

        12       determination whether to put this into effect.

        13       It gives them the authority.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, Senator,

        15       you've put in some good measures to protect the

        16       locality.  Senator Mendez likes your bill as she

        17       passes by, but I have a couple of questions if

        18       you wouldn't mind yielding.

        19                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Sure.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        21       Senator DeFrancisco, do you yield?

        22                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes, I do.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, when











                                                             
10313

         1       we start with security guards with batons and

         2       allowing them to carry made, mace may inevitably

         3       be a nominal issue because we may just wind up

         4       passing legislation to allow citizens to carry

         5       mace but, when we do allow that where we stand

         6       right now, without any training, without any

         7       real understanding of what law enforcement

         8       capability is and duty and responsibility, do

         9       you think that we are in a sense giving these

        10       private security guards any power that may be

        11       corruptible in the sense that it may lead to the

        12       uses of excessive force in situations for which

        13       there is no merit?

        14                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Senator,

        15       first of all, we were very careful not to

        16       include the carrying of weapons as part of this

        17       bill, and merely a baton and mace.  It seems

        18       that if we're going to give these officers,

        19       security officers, the authority to arrest and

        20       in some cases it's a violent type crime -- as we

        21       know, there are rapes on college campuses and

        22       barring assaults on college campuses, it would

        23       be, I think, unfair to not equip them with











                                                             
10314

         1       something to defend themselves and allow them to

         2       arrest on probable cause, so I think a balance

         3       has been struck to, I think, alleviate most of

         4       the concerns that you might have because they

         5       would not be allowed to carry a weapon other

         6       than a baton and mace and if there was abuse on

         7       behalf of an officer, whether it be liability

         8       like in any other case of excessive force being

         9       used.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I am

        11       concerned that we are not privatizing our police

        12       in some respects, and even the police are con

        13       cerned about citizens who get hired privately

        14       doing this kind of work getting carried away, so

        15       to speak, particularly in the cases of college

        16       security, often many of them are younger people

        17       who are working in those capacities as well.

        18                      I notice that the Sheriffs

        19       Association was opposed to your "A" print of

        20       this particular legislation even though I will

        21       concede that you did not allow them to carry

        22       weapons, and that you're trying to strike a

        23       balance.  Now, you have a "B" print of the











                                                             
10315

         1       bill.  That's the one that's before us as we

         2       speak.

         3                      How has the Sheriffs Association

         4       responded to that bill?

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  They

         6       haven't, but I would assume that the statewide

         7       Sheriffs Association would be opposed.  I think

         8       it's clearly an issue of the fact that there

         9       will be a private university hiring their own

        10       security guards rather than someone who might be

        11       a member of their association.

        12                      I did, however, take great pains

        13       to work with our local department, the Onondaga

        14       County Sheriffs Department and their association

        15       has con... has agreed with this bill and has not

        16       filed any objection to it, and I think the

        17       reaction of the statewide Sheriffs Association

        18       is a logical one from their perspective, but the

        19       fact of the matter is, with municipalities with

        20       financial problems, towns, villages, cities and

        21       counties, are unable to hire enough police to -

        22       to deal with college campuses, and that's why

        23       college campuses have hired security guards and











                                                             
10316

         1       we're just trying to give them some ability to

         2       stop a crime in progress or arrest somebody on

         3       probable cause and a minimal amount of equipment

         4       to protect themselves.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  And the

         6       budget.

         7                      Mr. President, rarely does the

         8       sponsor of legislation admit that by conjecture

         9       he or she would assume that an organization is

        10       opposed, so I really want to commend Senator

        11       DeFrancisco.  I think he's very honest on that

        12       particular point.

        13                      I would want to make you aware

        14       though, Senator, I'm not a member of the

        15       Sheriffs Association.  I feel I have a

        16       substantive reason for wanting to criticize this

        17       piece of legislation, and I think that many of

        18       their members probably feel the same way.  I

        19       think of it might be a little more than just the

        20       fact that they aren't actually getting the

        21       jobs.

        22                      I understand the -- the situation

        23       that you're trying to address, and the often











                                                             
10317

         1       increased violence on our campuses today.  What

         2       I'm just saying is that to arm this personnel in

         3       a way that I think could actually cause more

         4       violence or excessive violence is something that

         5       has to be scrutinized as strictly as possible,

         6       and if the individuals who are taking these jobs

         7       are not often pre-screened in situations that

         8       become volatile, they can get as carried away as

         9       some of the individuals who are in the

        10       situation.  They don't have the same training

        11       that our police and other law enforcement

        12       personnel have, and I think that those

        13       situations just as much as the private security

        14       guards sometimes don't act when they should out

        15       of anxiety created by these situations,

        16       sometimes they over-react.

        17                      All of this is attributed not to

        18       a defect in their character, but really what is

        19       really a lesser amount of training and full

        20       understanding of the actual situation.

        21                      And so, on the bill, Mr.

        22       President, I would -- wouldn't be able to vote

        23       for this bill because I just think that it is,











                                                             
10318

         1       as the statewide Sheriffs Association says, in

         2       many respects, privatizing a law enforcement

         3       capacity that should generally be administered

         4       through the public.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         6       Senator Oppenheimer.

         7                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.  We have done a considerable

         9       amount of work, oh, about two or three years

        10       ago, concerning security on college campuses,

        11       and I think this bill is worthy of support.

        12                      I would commend to you a bill I

        13       have which says that the SUNY peace officers

        14       ought to have some very specific training in

        15       sexual abuse cases, and we have a bill in that

        16       recommends 12 hours of training in this, because

        17       this is, perhaps, the most common -- it is the

        18       most common violent crime on college campuses,

        19       and there should be further training.

        20                      I think it's warranted because of

        21       the nature of sex offenses and the way one has

        22       to respond -- you know, the degree of

        23       sensitivity and appropriateness to the victim











                                                             
10319

         1       and, because of the unusual nature of that

         2       crime, we feel there should be additional

         3       training.  I think now, in the training for

         4       security guards, I think it's three hours.  We

         5       believe it should be brought up to 12 in light

         6       of the peculiar nature of this offense, in that,

         7       it is such a common -- unfortunately, such a

         8       common crime on campuses.

         9                      So I commend that to you, but I

        10       support your bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        12       Senator DeFrancisco.

        13                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Two

        14       points.  As I mentioned before, there is a

        15       provision in the bill that would require the

        16       university to indemnify the sheriff's department

        17       or the city police in case of any time that they

        18       might be involved in a suit because of excessive

        19       force or improper activities.

        20                      And, directly to Senator

        21       Paterson's point, there is a section in the bill

        22       which I neglected to mention that requires that

        23       the individuals who are these security guards be











                                                             
10320

         1       registered pursuant to the Security Guard Act,

         2       which is part of the General Business Law, and

         3       complete a training program with special

         4       emphasis on the proper use of a baton and

         5       noxious materials approved by the Municipal

         6       Police Training Council or similar agency.

         7                      There's also provision for

         8       character and background checks which are in the

         9       best interest, obviously, of the universities

        10       since they, most likely, would not want to be

        11       sued for having an incompetent individual in

        12       these positions.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar 1404 are Senators

        22       Connor, Paterson and Wright.  Ayes 54, nays 3.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The











                                                             
10321

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         4       Senator Hoffmann.

         5                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I would

         6       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

         7       negative on Calendar 748, passed earlier today.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Unless

         9       there's objection, Senator Hoffmann will be

        10       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1748 -

        11       748, I'm sorry.

        12                      Senator Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe there

        14       has been a home rule message received on

        15       Calendar Number 1405, by Senator Spano.  Would

        16       you call the bill at this time.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        18       Secretary will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1405, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4398, an

        21       act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation

        22       to bonds and notes of the city of Yonkers.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  There











                                                             
10322

         1       is a home rule message at the desk.

         2                      Read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      Senator Skelos.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  May we stand at

        13       ease for one moment.

        14                      (There was a pause in the

        15       proceedings.)

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Shortly, there

        17       will be a supplemental live calendar coming out

        18       to the original calendar, the yellow calendar

        19       that's on our desk, so if they want to see

        20       what's coming up, they should come in the

        21       chambers as soon as possible.

        22                      At this time, we will take up

        23       Calendar 1398, by Senator Johnson.











                                                             
10323

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

         3       Secretary will read Calendar 1398.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1398, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3560, an

         6       act to amend the General Obligations Law, in

         7       relation to liability of landowners.

         8                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         9       this bill amends Paragraph (b), Subdivision 2,

        10       Section 9.103 of the General Obligations Law, by

        11       adding consideration for hunting and fishing at

        12       an amount less than the property taxes paid on

        13       the property.

        14                      Mr. President, what this bill is

        15       intended to do is open up more lands for hunting

        16       and fishing.  In 1980, we had 58,000 people take

        17       the hunting safety course.  In 1994, the number

        18       was only 28,000.  There are fewer licenses being

        19       sold, and the revenues which support wildlife

        20       restoration and other things, these monies come

        21       from hunting and fishing licenses.

        22                      One of the main problems in

        23       diminishing hunting and fishing in New York











                                                             
10324

         1       State is the lack of access.  What we're trying

         2       to do with this bill is to say to a person, you

         3       can have general protection against lawsuits the

         4       same as enjoyed for people now using your

         5       property for skiing, horseback riding, or

         6       whatever, if you lease this land out or let

         7       people come in by the day for a fee for hunting

         8       or fishing.  As long as you do not earn any more

         9       money than the amount of taxes on your property,

        10       you can still have the protection afforded by

        11       Section 9.103.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        13       Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Mr. President.

        16                      If Senator Johnson will be

        17       gracious enough to yield for a couple of

        18       questions.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        20       Senator Johnson, do you yield?

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        23       Senator yields.











                                                             
10325

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         2       Senator.  These situations come up, I assume, on

         3       a case-by-case basis.  In other words, there

         4       could be a number of individuals who are coming

         5       onto someone's property to hunt and fish, and as

         6       long as all of them individually are paying less

         7       than the owner pays in property taxes, they can

         8       use the property; is that not correct?

         9                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, the way I

        10       understand the bill, you can not take in any

        11       more than your taxes.  For example, if your

        12       taxes were $1,000 a year, you couldn't take in

        13       more than $1,000 in any calendar year for

        14       letting persons use this or for leasing the

        15       property.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  So it's the

        17       total collective -

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Revenue.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  -- amount?

        20                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  That's correct,

        21       Senator.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, that

        23       still would allow -- in other words, would you











                                                             
10326

         1       explain to me, if you would yield for a

         2       question, what the amount is; in other words,

         3       what the relationship is between the amount of

         4       money that's collected and the property tax

         5       itself?  In other words, if you want to allow

         6       people to hunt and fish on a person's land and

         7       you want the person to be tax exempt, why did

         8       the amount of money that they paid to the owner

         9       make a particular difference?

        10                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, you

        11       said something about tax exempt?  This has

        12       nothing to do with any tax exemptions.  What

        13       this is to do, Senator, many people own land

        14       now -

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'm sorry,

        16       Senator.  I may have said tax exempt.  I just

        17       meant exempted from liability.  I'm sorry.

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Oh, okay.  Many

        19       persons, downstate, Jersey, other states, own

        20       land in upstate New York, good hunting land.

        21       They don't usually let people on that land.

        22       They post those lands.  Many of them don't even

        23       use the land which is posted, but it's not











                                                             
10327

         1       accessible for the general public to go hunting;

         2       and a lot of the wildlife programs, conservation

         3       programs, are supported by revenues from hunting

         4       and fishing license fees.

         5                      What this is intended to do is

         6       encourage a person who owns land upstate, by

         7       providing a small financial incentive, no

         8       profit, he is not going into business really,

         9       just letting him recoup up to the amount of his

        10       taxes so he makes his land available to hunters

        11       and fishermen.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, my

        13       fear is that we are creating a situation where

        14       we are disaffecting duty.  What we are really

        15       doing is abrogating responsibility to the user

        16       where the owner may not really even reside on

        17       the premises.  It might be some land that they

        18       just own, and they just might collect a little

        19       money to let people go to hunt and fish on the

        20       actual land, but there is no upkeep.  There may

        21       be hazards on the land.  There may be dangerous

        22       situations that an individual might meet up with

        23       by coming on the land and by, in a sense,











                                                             
10328

         1       shielding them from liability, if some accident

         2       would occur, what is the -- and I guess you know

         3       the question I'm going to ask you -- what is

         4       going to be the circumstance that will be faced

         5       by the victim of some sort of accident?

         6                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, I used

         7       the example of a downstate person owning

         8       property, but, of course, a lot of these

         9       properties are owned by upstate people who

        10       reside on these properties, so they will not

        11       always be unsupervised.  They may be in many

        12       cases.

        13                      But we're only amending Section

        14       2(b), but we do not limit the liability which

        15       would otherwise exist for willful or malicious

        16       failure to guard or warn against a dangerous

        17       condition, structure, use or activity, et

        18       cetera, or acts by a person whose permission was

        19       granted to other persons, et cetera, et cetera.

        20       They still would have the normal duty to warn of

        21       dangers, and so forth, which might exist.

        22                      So I think we're really limiting

        23       in a very strict way what takes place here and,











                                                             
10329

         1       of course, the landowner will have the present

         2       liability which he retains in every other

         3       respect.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

         5       much, Senator.

         6                      Mr. President, on the bill.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         8       Senator Paterson, on the bill.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Originally,

        10       there was some confusion in the bill as to

        11       whether or not there was an amount of money that

        12       might exceed the money paid in property taxes.

        13       Senator Johnson certainly cleared that up by

        14       letting it be known that it could not exceed the

        15       amount of money, even if it was from a number of

        16       donors, that the landowner pays in taxes.

        17                      What still concerns us is the

        18       issue of individuals being possibly harmed on

        19       property that doesn't have any upkeep because

        20       there is no real pressure on the landlord.

        21       Senator Johnson's response is that really it

        22       only relates to certain parts of the actual

        23       procedure and that, actually, there still are











                                                             
10330

         1       protections for an individual who is injured on

         2       someone else's property.

         3                      We just feel that that's an area

         4       of law that really should not be touched.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 2.

        13       Senators Connor and Paterson recorded in the

        14       negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      Senator Wright, we have some

        18       housekeeping matters, if you would like to take

        19       care of those now.

        20                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  If you would,

        21       Mr. President.  Please proceed with the

        22       housekeeping and recognize Senator Libous.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:











                                                             
10331

         1       Senator Libous.

         2                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.  On behalf of Senator Goodman, on

         4       page 5, I offer the following amendments to

         5       Calendar Number 163, Senate Print Number 1746,

         6       and ask that the said bill retain its place on

         7       the Third Reading Calendar.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Amendments received and adopted.

        10                      There is a substitution at the

        11       desk, Senator Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Please make the

        13       substitution.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland

        17       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        18       Assembly Bill Number 8042 and substitute it for

        19       the identical Calendar Number 1352.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Substitution ordered.

        22                      Senator Wright.

        23                      (Whereupon, there was a pause in











                                                             
10332

         1       the proceedings.)

         2                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Wright.

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  While we

         6       appreciate the efficiency being demonstrated by

         7       the presiding officer, we are extending a brief

         8       courtesy to the Minority Leader, who is

         9       reviewing the supplemental calendar,

        10       supplemental active list of Thursday, June 15.

        11       We encourage the other members to also review

        12       that active list, and we will soon be taking

        13       that up and proceeding, and we appreciate the

        14       indulgence of the chair.

        15                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                      (There was a pause in the

        17       proceedings.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Senator Wright.

        20                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Senator Wright.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Would you











                                                             
10333

         1       recognize Senator Solomon for the purpose of

         2       voting.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Solomon.

         5                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.  I would like unanimous consent to be

         7       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1398.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Without objection, so ordered.

        10                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Senator Wright.

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        14       if we could return to the original active list

        15       and call up Calendar Number 1238.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Secretary will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1238, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 4903B, an

        20       act to amend the General Business Law, in

        21       relation to itinerant vendors.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        23       is there a message of necessity at the desk?











                                                             
10334

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

         2       there is, Senator Wright.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

         4       the message.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

         6       those in favor.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed.

         9                      (Response of "Nay.")

        10                      The message is accepted.

        11                      Senator Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        13       President.  I don't need an explanation on this

        14       bill.  Senator Sears provided one on Monday, and

        15       I asked him a couple of questions about the bill

        16       not really -- serving unequally to all of the

        17       vendors, and that correction has been made, and

        18       the bill is quite fine, and we'd like to thank

        19       Senator Sears for listening and for responding,

        20       and the bill, we feel, is improved and should

        21       serve everyone equally.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
10335

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Wright.

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  If you will give

        11       us a minute, Mr. President, we're waiting for a

        12       sponsor to return to the floor.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        14       Surely, Senator.

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Wright.

        18                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  If we could

        19       again return to the initial active list, and I

        20       request that you call up Calendar 1221.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10336

         1       1221, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4688C, an

         2       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         3       relation to unlicensed and fraudulent operators.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         5       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

         7       is a message at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

         9       the message.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        11       those in favor of accepting the message.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      The message is accepted.

        16                      Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The











                                                             
10337

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Wright.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         4       we will now move to the supplemental active

         5       list.  We will begin the noncontroversial

         6       calendar, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         8       Secretary will read, please.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 15,

        10       Calendar Number 720, by Senator Holland, Senate

        11       Print 206, an act to amend the Public Health

        12       Law, in relation to notification to local social

        13       services departments.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
10338

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       732, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 3362, an

         3       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the

         4       Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to driving

         5       while under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 27.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the first day of

        10       November.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       737, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 1671A,

        19       an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        20       relation to authorizing the establishment of a

        21       Bureau of Administrative Adjudication.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
10339

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       746, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4185A, an

        11       act to amend the Real property Tax Law, in

        12       relation to tax exemption.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        14       Senator Wright.

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        16       is there a message at the desk?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

        18       there is a message from the Governor.

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Move we accept

        20       the message of necessity.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        22       those in favor of accepting the message of

        23       necessity.











                                                             
10340

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The message is accepted.

         5                      Read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 26.  This

         7       act shall take effect July 1.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        12       bill is passed.  Oh, I'm sorry.

        13                      Senator Kuhl.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Results.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       751, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1243B, an

        23       act to amend the General Business Law and the











                                                             
10341

         1       Education Law, in relation to the registration

         2       of hearing aid dispensers.

         3                      Senator Wright.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         5       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

         7       there is.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

         9       the message.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        11       those in favor of accepting the message, signify

        12       by saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed, nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The message is accepted.

        17                      Read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect January 1.

        20                      SENATOR ABATE:  Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay

        22       the bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10342

         1       752, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1536A, an

         2       act to amend the General Business Law, in

         3       relation to materialmen.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect in 90 days.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       771, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4427A, an act

        16       to amend the Judiciary Law and the Uniform City

        17       Court Act, in relation to City Court judges.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        21       act shall take effect April 1.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
10343

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1.

         3       Senator Seward recorded in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       852, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2238A, an

         8       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         9       relation to driver education.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       858, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3466B, an

        22       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

        23       to disclosure by common carriers.











                                                             
10344

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays 1.

         9       Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative, also

        10       Senator Larkin.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       859, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3498A, an

        15       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

        16       to estimates of transportation charges.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        18       Senator Wright.

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        20       if you would proceed with 859, and then please

        21       recognize me.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Proceed.  Read the last section.











                                                             
10345

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Wright.

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        11       could we return to 751 on the Calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Could

        13       you just hold on for one second, Senator

        14       Wright?

        15                      Thank you.

        16                      Results.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays 1.

        18       Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        20       Senator Wright.

        21                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The











                                                             
10346

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Wright.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Are you ready?

         4                      (Laughter.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Did

         6       you get Senator Larkin's negative vote?  I would

         7       never hear the end of it.  Thank you.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        11       Senator Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Can we return to

        13       Calendar Number 751.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       751, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1243B, an

        18       act to amend the General Business Law and the

        19       Education Law, in relation to the registration

        20       of hearing aid dispensers.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  I just

        22       want to point out that the message was

        23       previously accepted on this bill.











                                                             
10347

         1                      Read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect January 1.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays 1,

         8       Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      Senator Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  If you will

        13       continue with the reading of the

        14       noncontroversial calendar on the supplemental

        15       active list.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       861, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3975D, an

        18       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        19       relation to the cost of station operation.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Wright.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Is there a

        23       message of necessity at the desk?











                                                             
10348

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

         2       there is.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I would move we

         4       accept the message.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

         6       those in favor of accepting the message of

         7       necessity.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The message is accepted.

        12                      Secretary will read.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay it

        15       aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       876, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4986C, an act

        18       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

        19       to the cost of station operation.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Wright.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        23       is there a message of necessity at the desk?











                                                             
10349

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

         2       there is a message of necessity.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I would move we

         4       accept the message.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

         6       those in favor of accepting the message of

         7       necessity.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The message is accepted.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        13       the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       885, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3455A, an











                                                             
10350

         1       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

         2       extending Section 1142-A of such law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         4       the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         8       the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       919, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 2396A, an

        15       act to amend the Tax Law, the Vehicle and

        16       Traffic Law, and the State Finance Law, in

        17       relation to the creation of the United States

        18       Olympic Committee.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call











                                                             
10351

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       925.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         9       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       957.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        13       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       959.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        17       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       993, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5009.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay

        21       the bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1027, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3331A, an











                                                             
10352

         1       act in relation to authorizing the town of Lee,

         2       county of Oneida, to lease certain park lands.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Wright.

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         6       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

         8       is a message of necessity at the desk.

         9                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I would move the

        10       acceptance of the message.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        12       those in favor of accepting the message of

        13       necessity.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The message is accepted.

        18                      We also have a home rule message

        19       at the desk for Calendar 1027.

        20                      Read the last section, please.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call











                                                             
10353

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1051, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 917A, an

         8       act to amend the Civil Rights Law, in relation

         9       to prohibiting the use of nonconsensual use of a

        10       person's voice.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first day of

        15       November.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1141, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5120A, an











                                                             
10354

         1       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

         2       establishing limitations for the percentage of

         3       savings bank's assets.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1151, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1701A.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Wright.

        18                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        19       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

        21       there is a message of necessity at the desk.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

        23       the message.











                                                             
10355

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

         2       those in favor of accepting the message.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Opposed.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The message is accepted.

         7                      Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes  59.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1173, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 5164A, an

        18       act in relation to authorizing the town of

        19       Greenville, Orange County, to sell and convey

        20       certain park land.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

        22       is a home rule message at the desk.

        23                      Read the last section.











                                                             
10356

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1189, by Senator Solomon, Senate Print 2854A, an

        11       act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,

        12       in relation to fees for referees.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        14       the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10357

         1       1328, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3839A, an

         2       act to amend the General Business Law, in

         3       relation to false price comparisons.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1329, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3905A, an

        16       act to amend the State Administrative Procedure

        17       Act and Chapter 402 of the Laws of 1994.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
10358

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1334, by Senator Johnson.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay

         9       the bill aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1337, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4932A, an

        12       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        13       the restoration and display of New York State's

        14       military battle flags.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The











                                                             
10359

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1344, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5302, an

         4       act to amend the General Procedure Law, in

         5       relation to jury consideration of lesser

         6       included offenses.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay

         8       the bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1345, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5326, an act

        11       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        12       relation to authorizing the Department of Motor

        13       Vehicles to sell to the highest bidder.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
10360

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1346, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5329, an

         3       act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in

         4       relation to the state's involvement.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1347, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        17       Print 5333, an act to amend the Tax Law, in

        18       relation to extending the effectiveness of

        19       provisions.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        21       the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
10361

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1348, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5343, an

         9       act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to

        10       pilotage fees.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1350, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5357.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.











                                                             
10362

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         2       bill is laid aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1352, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

         5       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 8042, an act

         6       to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to

         7       the pass-through of federal cost of living

         8       adjustments.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        10       the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        12       act shall take effect December 31.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1376, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        21       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 7667, an act

        22       to amend Chapter 420 of the Laws of 1991,

        23       amending the Real Property Law.











                                                             
10363

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1377, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5361, an

        13       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        14       relation to making technical and clarifying

        15       amendments thereto.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.











                                                             
10364

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1378, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5365, an

         5       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

         6       to establishing the ovarian cancer information

         7       program.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1379, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        20       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 8095, an act

        21       to amend the Family Protection and Domestic

        22       Violence Intervention Act of 1994, in relation

        23       to changing the date of operation.











                                                             
10365

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         2       the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1380, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        13       Print 5392, an act to amend Chapter 653 of the

        14       Laws of 1984, amending the Social Services Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        20       the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The











                                                             
10366

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1382, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5413, an

         4       act to amend Chapter 1 of the Laws of 1994,

         5       amending the Personal Property Law.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is laid aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1383, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5436, an

        11       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

        12       interstate branching.

        13                      Senator Wright.

        14                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        15       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

        17       is a message at the desk.

        18                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

        19       the message.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        21       those in favor of accepting the message of

        22       necessity.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")











                                                             
10367

         1                      Opposed.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The message is accepted.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay

         6       the bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1384, by Senator Galiber, Senate Print 4181, an

         9       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        10       providing grants to school districts.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1385, by Senator Abate, Senate Print 2548, an

        23       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,











                                                             
10368

         1       in relation to requiring applicants for licenses

         2       and renewals.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  That's all

         6       right, Mr. President.  Let it go.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Are

         8       you sure, Senator Paterson?

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Some other

        10       time maybe.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        12       Senator Wright.

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  We will

        14       acknowledge the Deputy Minority Leader's

        15       request.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        17       the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.











                                                             
10369

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      Senator Wright, for what purpose

         4       do you rise?

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I believe that

         6       completes the noncontroversial calendar.

         7                      If you would take up the

         8       controversial calendar, Senator Spano is ready,

         9       and we'll call 861.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        11       Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       861, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3975D, an

        14       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        15       relation to the cost of station operation.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        18       Senator Spano, an explanation has been requested

        19       from Senator Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President,

        21       this bill would establish a formula for levying

        22       station maintenance charges by suburban

        23       counties.  It would replace a system that we











                                                             
10370

         1       have right now of cost allocations and audits

         2       that are involved in current statute, that

         3       really would adopt some middle ground where the

         4       suburban counties would pay a specified dollar

         5       amount that would be subject to an adjustment

         6       that is made annually to reflect the regional

         7       consumer price index.

         8                      The difficulties the counties

         9       right now have had is that the -- the parties

        10       are subject to a formula for station maintenance

        11       that determines the charges without regard to

        12       the actual expenses.  This puts some -- makes

        13       some sense into the system -- puts some sense

        14       into the system -- something like that.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank

        16       you, Senator Spano.

        17                      Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        19       all we're interested in, if Senator Spano would

        20       yield for a question?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Senator Spano, would you yield for a question?

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  What formulas











                                                             
10371

         1       affect New York City?  Does New York City get

         2       included in this formula, or how do we treat the

         3       counties in New York City right now?

         4                      SENATOR SPANO:  No, this bill

         5       does not affect the city of New York at all.  It

         6       excludes the city of New York and the formulas

         7       are put in place that affect only the suburban

         8       counties.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        12       the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 2,

        19       Senators Connor and Paterson recorded in the

        20       negative.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10372

         1       993, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5009, an

         2       act to amend the Administrative Code of the City

         3       of New York, in relation to access to correct

         4       housing maintenance code violation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Wright.

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         8       can we lay that aside temporarily and proceed?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815, an

        13       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        14       the definition of small groups.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Senator Johnson, an explanation has been -

        17                      I'm sorry.  Senator Wright.

        18                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        19       can we lay that aside temporarily, and we'll

        20       proceed to Calendar Number 1344.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Proceed to Calendar 1344, please.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10373

         1       1344, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5302, an

         2       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

         3       relation to jury consideration.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Maltese, an explanation has been

         7       requested by Senator Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         9                      Mr. President.  This bill was

        10       introduced at the request of the Chief

        11       Administrative Judge upon recommendation of his

        12       Advisory Committee on Criminal Law and

        13       Procedure.  It is carried in the Assembly by

        14       Assemblyman Wright.

        15                      It amends the Criminal Procedure

        16       Law to provide that whenever the Court submits

        17       two or more offenses in the alternative to the

        18       jury and the jury has deliberated for an

        19       extensive period of time on the greater offense

        20       and is unlikely to come to an agreement within a

        21       reasonable amount of time, it may go on to

        22       consider any lesser included offense.

        23                      The Court, in choosing to give











                                                             
10374

         1       that instruction, must instruct the jury that if

         2       the defendant is convicted of a lesser included

         3       offense, he or she may not be tried on the

         4       greater offense.

         5                      Basically, it assists the people

         6       in eliminating possibly mistrials, eliminating

         7       the situations as occurred in the Robert

         8       Chambers case, where the jury acting under

         9       People versus Butker felt that they had to

        10       arrive at a unanimous -- and the present law -

        11       felt they had to arrive at a unanimous decision

        12       on the greater count before proceeding to the

        13       lesser count and deliberated for eight and a

        14       half days and, if they had not arrived at a plea

        15       bargaining, would undoubtedly -- the case would

        16       undoubtedly have resulted in a mistrial.

        17                      The change which has been

        18       suggested permits the jury, after consideration

        19       of the greater charge and deliberation on the

        20       greater charge and, in addition, a finding by -

        21       concurred in by the Court, that a unanimous

        22       decision on the greater charge cannot be arrived

        23       at, permits the jury to go down to the lesser











                                                             
10375

         1       charge.

         2                      In addition, there are concurrent

         3       portions of the statute which would entitle the

         4       attorney for the defendant to except to the

         5       judge charging that the jury may, upon not

         6       arriving at a unanimous decision on the greater

         7       charge, then proceed to the consideration of the

         8       lesser charge.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        10       Senator Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       if Senator Maltese would yield for a question?

        13                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        15       Senator Maltese, would you yield for a

        16       question?

        17                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        19       Maltese, in the jury system, what we want is for

        20       the jurors to arrive at a conclusion in which

        21       they all concur, and what frightens me about

        22       this bill is that it opens the door to the

        23       prospective of compromised verdicts.  In other











                                                             
10376

         1       words, we can't convict him for the higher

         2       offense, so what we'll do is we'll convict him

         3       on the lower offense even though we really can't

         4       settle our differences because maybe eight of us

         5       think he is guilty and four of us don't think he

         6       is guilty.

         7                      I think way back in the late '60s

         8       or early '70s in the Chicago 7 case in Chicago,

         9       that's how they actually settled that case.

        10       There were a number of Law Review articles

        11       written in law school journals after that about

        12       this whole sense of one juror serving as liaison

        13       between two camps and creating a compromise

        14       verdict, even though three or four of the jurors

        15       walked out of the room absolutely convinced that

        16       these defendants in this particular case were

        17       not guilty.

        18                      Now, the particular case does not

        19       matter.  The articles were talking about just

        20       the regular jury system.  How do you think this

        21       bill can be enacted?  How can we enact a law

        22       without jeopardizing the system where there is

        23       consent among jurors?











                                                             
10377

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         2       as I had mentioned earlier, the legislation was

         3       at the suggestion of the Chief Administrative

         4       Judge and, while we have received no memos from

         5       district attorneys' organizations, at the same

         6       time we have not received memorandums from Legal

         7       Aid or any defender associations in opposition.

         8                      In addition, the fact that it is

         9       not only carried in the Assembly by Assemblyman

        10       Wright but also, I am advised, concurred in by

        11       other Assemblymen, who, I think, are justly

        12       concerned with the rights of defendants, permits

        13       me to arrive at the assumption that the rights

        14       of the defendants in these cases are assuaged.

        15                      Now, the way that's done is that

        16       this is not done in a vacuum.  First of all, it

        17       is done with the consent of the judge presiding

        18       in the case.  Secondly, it is only after a

        19       determination concurred in by that judge that

        20       the jury is unable to agree on a unanimous

        21       verdict on the greater charge.

        22                      In addition, it must satisfy the

        23       judge that a sufficient time has been spent on











                                                             
10378

         1       deliberations on that point and, again, it is

         2       only when alternative charges are presented to

         3       the jury that they can go from the greater

         4       charge to the lesser charge.

         5                      In addition, I think it satisfies

         6       defense counsel and defense organizations in

         7       that it provides that when the -- unlike the

         8       federal system, that when the jury arrives at

         9       the verdict of guilty for the lesser charge, the

        10       defendant cannot be tried under double jeopardy

        11       for the greater charge in the future.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        15       that was quite instructive, Senator Maltese.

        16                      I raised with you a question

        17       probably that would relate more to the concerns

        18       of the defense, but there is perhaps even a

        19       problem that prosecutors would have who are

        20       often able to keep high conviction rates for

        21       high offenses.

        22                      But, correct me if I'm wrong -

        23       your previous answer may be providing me with











                                                             
10379

         1       the answer I need for this question, being that

         2       this is really the point of last resort.  This

         3       is only when the jury now informs the Court that

         4       they can not reach a decision, so it's not that

         5       the jury goes into the jury room with this

         6       option right in front of them?

         7                      SENATOR MALTESE:  No -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Senator Maltese, do you yield?

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  -- Senator

        11       Paterson is correct.  It is not ab initio, not

        12       when they first go out.  Even if they receive

        13       the instruction from the judge, they must come

        14       back to the Court and advise the Court that they

        15       have deliberated, satisfy the Court that they

        16       have deliberated for an extensive period of

        17       time, and then that they can not arrive at a

        18       unanimous verdict, before they go down to

        19       consideration of the lesser charge.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  The defense

        23       consent is something that's addressed in this











                                                             
10380

         1       bill.  But, moving along, if Senator Maltese

         2       will continue to yield?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Maltese, do you continue to yield?

         5                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Can this

         7       conviction to the lesser charge be accomplished

         8       over the objections of the district attorney in

         9       the proceedings?

        10                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Your Honor, I

        11       believe by statute -

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  That's "Mr.

        13       President".

        14                      SENATOR MALTESE:  The statute

        15       that we're putting in, the fact that the

        16       district attorney may object would not have a

        17       bearing on this, and the jury would be able to

        18       consider the lesser charge even over the

        19       objection of the district attorney.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        23       that kind of cuts both ways.











                                                             
10381

         1                      On the bill.  I think that this

         2       legislation actually would affect both sides

         3       equally; and seeing that there really doesn't

         4       seem to be any major objection from anybody,

         5       even though there are some concerns, I guess we

         6       will proceed to the next piece of legislation.

         7                      Thank you.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Wright.

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        20       if we could take up Calendar Number 1382.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Clerk

        22       will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10382

         1       1382, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5413, an

         2       act to amend Chapter 1 of the Laws of 1994,

         3       amending the Personal Property Law.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Sears, an explanation has been requested

         7       by Senator Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes, sir.

         9       Senator, back in the waning hours of 1994, when

        10       we were in session regarding this particular

        11       banking bill that we had to pass, I think it was

        12       in March -- I think it was retroactive to

        13       sometime in January -- there was an auto leasing

        14       bill which was long overdue that was included in

        15       that legislation.

        16                      Now, as I said, this was passed

        17       during the final hours prior to the time that

        18       the laws pertaining to the interest rates on

        19       banking were to sunset, so we had some real

        20       important things that should have been in that

        21       bill that were agreed by the Governor to be in

        22       there, and these range from complaints from

        23       consumers being charged for excess wear and tear











                                                             
10383

         1       and failure by the dealer to disclose the costs

         2       associated with the lease, including the

         3       capitalized cost, early termination and gap

         4       insurance liability.

         5                      These are all things that we

         6       should have in any auto leasing legislation in

         7       this state.  Unfortunately, we did not get those

         8       in there.  They are necessary.

         9                      So, for that reason, we want to

        10       extend the date that this goes into effect by

        11       seven months so that we can renegotiate these

        12       very important things and get them into the

        13       legislation early next year.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        15       Senator Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        17       if Senator Sears will yield for a question?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Senator Sears, will you yield for a question?

        20                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Oh, thank you,

        22       Senator Sears.  You have two bills of this

        23       sort.  One is, I guess, the Assembly bill that











                                                             
10384

         1       you are carrying over here, and one is your own

         2       bill.  Do you have an objection to the Assembly

         3       bill passing?  Because it seems that the

         4       Assembly's position is that they would just let

         5       the seven months elapse and let the law go into

         6       effect, and apparently the difference of opinion

         7       is that there are some substantive and technical

         8       changes that you would like to add.

         9                      Would you like to illuminate us

        10       as to what, briefly, a couple of them are?

        11                      SENATOR SEARS:  Are you talking

        12       about capitalization costs?

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Right.

        14                      SENATOR SEARS:  Well,

        15       "capitalization costs," when you go in to buy a

        16       car, you know how much you are paying for it

        17       and, then, if you want to dicker with the

        18       dealer, you can, but at least you got a starting

        19       point.  It's my understanding when you lease a

        20       car, you go in and they don't have to tell you,

        21       and they don't quite often tell you what the

        22       capitalization costs are, but then when you come

        23       back in and say you want to buy that car, where











                                                             
10385

         1       do you start as far as depreciation is

         2       concerned, because you don't know what it was

         3       worth when you first went in there and leased it

         4       or bought it.

         5                      Another problem is what they hit

         6       you with after you bring the car back in after

         7       the lease is up.  What's "excessive wear and

         8       tear"?  There has to be something in there for

         9       that, because it's my understanding from certain

        10       people who have complained to me about auto

        11       leasing is they get hit with every scratch that

        12       might have been on there before they even leased

        13       the car.  They didn't know it, and sometimes -

        14       and, as a matter of fact, I think that Senator

        15       Bruno might have had a problem with something

        16       similar to that back a few years ago, as far as

        17       when he took that lease car back, he got hit

        18       with some pretty good bills for what they said

        19       was wrong with that car that wasn't when he

        20       leased it.

        21                      Then, of course, if you are

        22       leasing a car and you run into some bad times

        23       and perhaps you lose your job, for example, and











                                                             
10386

         1       you can't meet the terms of that contract that

         2       you had for leasing, you might have to ask for

         3       an early termination, and the way the law is

         4       presently, I guess, or no law, that can be

         5       pretty expensive because you are at the mercy of

         6       who you leased the car from as to what those

         7       termination costs are going to be.

         8                      So for these reasons, and since

         9       this legislation has nothing to do with the bank

        10       legislation that was included in the same bill,

        11       we're asking for this seven-month delay so that

        12       these negotiations can continue so that we can

        13       have a bill that is going to be way overdue but

        14       at the same time if you don't have some of these

        15       things in that bill and this goes into effect,

        16       this certainly doesn't give the consumers much

        17       protection under the present system we have,

        18       which really isn't any because we never had any

        19       meaningful auto leasing legislation in this

        20       state and, in my opinion, if we don't extend

        21       this to January, seven months, we still won't

        22       have any meaningful legislation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank











                                                             
10387

         1       you, Senator.

         2                      Senator Paterson.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         4       we're going to really just have a problem

         5       because Senator Sears and the Assembly just

         6       haven't been able to agree.  The Assembly wants

         7       Senator Sears to pass his legislation and,

         8       otherwise, we would have to wait until January

         9       the 31st, but what Senator Sears is saying is

        10       that he has some technical corrections where he

        11       can clear up some discrepancies in the bill, and

        12       that's what he wants to do.

        13                      Now, the issue really is just

        14       that they can not agree and, unfortunately,

        15       since they can't agree, I guess we'll pass this

        16       bill, but it's not going anywhere.

        17                      But on both sides, there is some

        18       merit that is very clear from the explanation

        19       that we just heard, and I hope that at some

        20       point in the very near future we can find that

        21       agreement.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        23       the last section.











                                                             
10388

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Wright.

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        11       will you please recognize Senator Saland to

        12       record a vote.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        14       Senator Saland.

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President, I

        16       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        17       negative on Calendar 751, Senate 1243B.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Without objection, so ordered.

        20                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I request

        22       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        23       on Calendar 583 and also on Calendar 751.











                                                             
10389

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         2       Without objection, so ordered.

         3                      Senator Wright.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         5       could we lay 1383 aside temporarily.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  1383

         7       is laid aside.

         8                      Senator Wright.

         9                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Do you have any

        10       housekeeping at the desk?

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  No, we

        12       have no housekeeping, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Then we shall

        14       pause for a moment.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Senate

        16       will stand at ease.

        17                      (Whereupon, at 3:37 p.m., the

        18       Senate was at ease until 3:40 p.m.)

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        20       Senator Sears.

        21                      SENATOR SEARS:  Yes, mr.

        22       President.  On the first calendar we had,

        23       Calendar -











                                                             
10390

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Can we

         2       have some order in the chamber, please?

         3                      Senator Sears, hold it.

         4                      Can we have some order?

         5                      Senator Sears.

         6                      SENATOR SEARS:  -- Calendar

         7       Number 1354, Senate 5321, I would like to be

         8       recorded in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        10       Without objection, so ordered.

        11                      Senator Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        13       if we can return to the first active list,

        14       Calendar Number 1319.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1319, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5352,

        19       an act to authorize the city of Buffalo, Erie

        20       County, to lease certain parklands.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

        22       is a home rule message at the desk.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Last section.











                                                             
10391

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         2       the last section, please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      Senator Wright.

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        13       if we could now return to the supplemental

        14       active list and take up Calendar Number 1334.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815, an

        19       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        20       the definition of small groups.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Senator Johnson, an explanation has been

        23       requested by Senator Stachowski.











                                                             
10392

         1                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         2       this is a simple bill.  This would conform New

         3       York State law to a federal law in a certain

         4       instance here.

         5                      Mr. President, lay that bill

         6       aside, please.  I had a different bill in mind.

         7       Lay it aside temporarily.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Lay it

         9       aside temporarily.

        10                      Senator Wright.

        11                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        12       can we then move to -- and we're on the

        13       supplemental active list -- Calendar Number

        14       1350.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1350, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5357, an

        19       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,

        20       in relation to the definition of facility for

        21       the purposes of control of the bulk storage of

        22       petroleum.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.











                                                             
10393

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         2       Senator Johnson, an explanation has been

         3       requested by Senator Gold and Senator Paterson.

         4                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, I guess I

         5       have to give two explanations then.  I will

         6       start with the first one.

         7                      Mr. President, in the

         8       Environmental Conservation Law, there's

         9       regulation of underground tanks.  This provides

        10       that any tanks separately or in combination over

        11       1,100 gallons are a facility and should be

        12       regulated as such.  They have to have a license

        13       to pay a fee up to $250, depending upon the

        14       size.

        15                      The federal law does not read the

        16       same.  In fact, we're amending our law to be the

        17       same as the federal law, which says if the 1100

        18       gallons is interconnected, over 1100 gallons,

        19       then it's a facility, but if there are separate

        20       tanks on the property adding up to more than

        21       that, it would not be considered a facility.

        22                      This is just a common sense

        23       thing, and the explanation we have here, which











                                                             
10394

         1       we think is a legitimate one, is a church with a

         2       rectory or several commercial buildings on the

         3       same property with 500-gallon tanks or something

         4       adding up to more than 1100 gallons, even though

         5       they're separate tanks in separate buildings,

         6       would make the whole site considered a facility

         7       and pay this fee and this fine.

         8                      The idea of this was to have -

         9       where you could have the possibility of a major

        10       spill from a facility, all interconnected tanks,

        11       that you want to protect the groundwater, but it

        12       was never anticipated to cover 275- or

        13       500-gallon tanks or even 1,000-gallon tanks

        14       which are separate and would be separately

        15       filled and if they developed a leak, they would

        16       be separate leaks.  They would not be

        17       interconnected, would not cause a major spill.

        18                      This bill essentially says that

        19       if you have over 1100 gallons, yes, you are

        20       still a facility in one tank, but if you have

        21       over 1100 in several tanks, you are not a

        22       facility.

        23                      And this would help, as I say, a











                                                             
10395

         1       church rectory, several small tanks on the same

         2       property.  You would not have to file with the

         3       DEC and become an oil facility.

         4                      Simple bill, makes sense, should

         5       be enacted.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Senator Oppenheimer.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Would

        11       Senator Johnson yield for a question or two?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Johnson, would you yield for a

        14       question?

        15                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        18       Senator Oppenheimer.

        19                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  How many

        20       existing tanks do you think would be exempted

        21       from regulation by this bill, the number?  How

        22       many tanks?

        23                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I couldn't tell











                                                             
10396

         1       you.  I know it would exempt the one in your

         2       house if you have a 1,000-gallon tank in your

         3       house or a 275 on your property.  It would

         4       exempt you.  It would exempt a lot of farms that

         5       might have 500 gallons of diesel fuel, 500

         6       gallons of gasoline, maybe 275 in the house for

         7       heating the house.  Right now, they have to file

         8       as a facility, as an oil terminal essentially,

         9       because they have three separate tanks on the

        10       same property.  Doesn't make any sense, Senator,

        11       to do that, and that's all excluded.

        12                      If you have a tank farm all

        13       connected, obviously, they have to be filed as a

        14       facility.

        15                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  That was a

        16       question that I had, that conceivably it could

        17       be an oil tank farm, that if each tank is

        18       separate and less than 1100 gallons, you

        19       could -

        20                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, the

        21       tank farms and the service stations don't fool

        22       with tanks less than 5,000 or 10,000 gallons.

        23       Those would all be required -- any single tank











                                                             
10397

         1       over 1100 gallons would still be required to go

         2       on the facility designation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Oppenheimer.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Would you

         6       continue to yield, please?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         8       Senator Johnson, would you continue to yield?

         9                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        11       Senator Oppenheimer.

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  There is no

        13       limit on the size of the site or the number of

        14       separate tanks on one site.  Now, this could

        15       conceivably result in a farm, an oil tank farm.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Johnson.

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Well, I mean

        19       the simple fact is it's not economical to do

        20       that.  No one would set up a tank farm with

        21       multiple 1,000-gallon tanks all separate,

        22       separate tanks, separate pumps, separate hoses.

        23       It doesn't make sense.  It simply would not











                                                             
10398

         1       happen.

         2                      But I'll tell you right now,

         3       Senator, you could have -- on an acre of land,

         4       you could have 8 or 10 homes, each with a 275 or

         5       a 550.  You got 5,000 gallons on an acre right

         6       now, and they are not regulated.  But if the

         7       same person owned two of these plots, each with

         8       a 550, then they would have to file it as a

         9       facility while the other eight homes, owned by

        10       individuals, don't not have to file as a

        11       facility.  That doesn't make any sense, Senator.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Oppenheimer.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  One last

        15       question.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Johnson, do you continue to yield?

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Oppenheimer.

        22                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Does the

        23       Petroleum Association support this bill, and











                                                             
10399

         1       will this bill enhance the marketability of oil

         2       at the expense, do you think, of natural gas,

         3       because they are not subject to this kind of

         4       law?

         5                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, I

         6       don't think this bill has any great influence on

         7       the marketplace at all, because people are still

         8       responsible if they have an oil leak.  The

         9       designation of "facility" has no connection to

        10       your possible liability for oil leaking from

        11       your premises, or gasoline for that matter.  You

        12       are still responsible.  It is not a marketing

        13       situation at all.

        14                      It's just rationalizing, and

        15       removing the necessity of a person with several

        16       small tanks adding up to 1100 gallons to file as

        17       a facility with the DEC.  As a matter of fact,

        18       they are not doing it now and probably violating

        19       the law, but it's not causing any particular

        20       problem.

        21                      As I said, Senator, this just

        22       conforms to the same designation as the federal

        23       government in terms of a facility.  We think the











                                                             
10400

         1       definition should be the same.  We don't think

         2       we should be different because we're New York

         3       State.

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

         5       Senator.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      Senator Wright.

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        18       we'll now move to the Supplemental Calendar

        19       Number 1, Calendar Number 1409, by Senator

        20       Velella.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10401

         1       1409, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5395A, an

         2       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

         3       to the testing of pregnant women.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         5       Senator Wright.

         6                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Is there a

         7       message of necessity at the desk?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

         9       is a message of necessity at the desk.

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

        11       the message.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        13       those in favor of accepting the message.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The message is accepted.

        18                      An explanation has been requested

        19       by Senator -

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  No, I just want to

        21       be recognized.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Gold.











                                                             
10402

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  For

         3       what purpose?

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  To speak on the

         5       bill, Mr. President.

         6                      Mr. President, my understanding

         7       of this is that this bill deals in an area where

         8       we have already this year passed legislation and

         9       sent it on to the Assembly.  If I'm not

        10       mistaken, the bill that we passed on was Senate

        11       Print 2704, which is a bill that had rather

        12       broad sponsorship on a bipartisan basis, and

        13       when you are dealing with an issue like this,

        14       you like to think that the public interest is

        15       very much involved and that politics should be

        16       taken out of it.

        17                      At any rate, apparently the

        18       Assembly has not acted yet on 2704 -- I don't

        19       believe they have -- and now, today, we are

        20       given a new bill, 1409, by Senators Velella and

        21       Hannon, and the words I hear around in the hall

        22       are that Senator Velella and Assemblywoman

        23       Mayersohn may have reached some private new











                                                             
10403

         1       agreement based on this bill.

         2                      When I look at the original bill,

         3       I see an awful lot of Assembly people, an awful

         4       lot of Senators involved in this issue.  It's an

         5       issue that's been around a couple years.  We've

         6       all worked very, very hard and, in speaking to

         7       some of my colleagues, I got the impression that

         8       passing this only muddies the water, and we

         9       don't understand it.

        10                      The Assembly has gone home until

        11       Monday, and I get the impression that almost

        12       everybody on this side of the aisle would have

        13       to vote in the negative on this bill at this

        14       point, because we are very concerned about the

        15       issue and we don't want to muddy the water.  We

        16       don't want this politicized.  We don't want this

        17       thrown around and new bills coming out whenever

        18       anybody gets the whim or the wish.

        19                      Nobody owns this issue.  There

        20       are very significant problems.  There are

        21       children; there are parents all affected.

        22       Nobody owns them or the issue, and we're all

        23       fighting for them.











                                                             
10404

         1                      I tried to find Senator Velella

         2       for the last hour, and I know he is one of our

         3       hardest working Senators, and I wasn't able to

         4       hook up with him, but I wanted to tell him the

         5       feelings before the bill was called, although I

         6       did tell Assemblywoman Mayersohn that the

         7       likelihood is that there very well might not be

         8       any votes on this side of the aisle.  I can't,

         9       from my position, speak for everybody on this

        10       side of the aisle, but that's kind of the

        11       impression I get.

        12                      So, Senator Velella, if you have

        13       the votes and you want to proceed, I guess you

        14       can, but that's about it for me on this bill.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Senator Paterson.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        18       I think in light of what Senator Gold is saying,

        19       I might be willing to waive some of the ques

        20       tions I wanted to ask Senator Velella.  I

        21       appreciate what Senator Gold is saying.  I was

        22       well aware that there was bipartisan support for

        23       this bill.  There was certainly a great deal of











                                                             
10405

         1       effort to pass this bill both in the Assembly

         2       and in the Senate.

         3                      I'd just like the record to

         4       reflect that nine of us voted against this

         5       bill.  We really believed that it was not an

         6       effective bill as it stood when we voted on it

         7       originally in March, and it is really no better

         8       now as it comes into this chamber today,

         9       particularly since the sero prevalence exams

        10       have pretty much been thwarted by the Centers

        11       for Disease Control because they object, for

        12       medical reasons, exactly to what is going on

        13       around here, which is the passage of this

        14       legislation leading to a presumption, obviously

        15       among an overwhelming majority of individuals,

        16       even including my friend Senator Gold, that

        17       there is some effectiveness of knowing this

        18       information, and I will not take up any more

        19       time going through the issue.

        20                      But there were some questions

        21       that I would have raised relating to the testing

        22       of pregnant women, relating to actually getting

        23       rid of the test in those cases, rendering these











                                                             
10406

         1       women among the same status as the deceased for

         2       testing purposes, the fact that we will be

         3       testing newborns automatically, so we would be

         4       retesting the newborns even where we have tested

         5       the pregnant mothers and -- okay.

         6                      And so, I won't go through all of

         7       the issues, but I would just want the record to

         8       reflect that there are issues.  I would say that

         9       there is really a higher principle in this

        10       particular discussion, which is that when

        11       members feel that a bill is the right bill -

        12       Senator Mendez is certainly one of those

        13       Senators who believes very much in the bill.

        14       She disagrees with me virulently.  She should be

        15       on the bill.  All those individuals who believe

        16       in this bill should be on the bill.  This is not

        17       the way at this particular time.

        18                      Maybe we'll discuss the merits,

        19       but there's really a higher cause, and that is,

        20       that the bill is not being fair to all of those

        21       who support it.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Velella.











                                                             
10407

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, let me

         2       first respond to the question of the sponsorship

         3       of this bill, and let me first publicly

         4       acknowledge that many members on your side of

         5       the aisle have been very supportive and very

         6       much involved in getting this issue to the point

         7       where it is today.

         8                      Assemblywoman Mayersohn, who has

         9       really been the main moving factor more than

        10       myself in this bill, was negotiating a bill with

        11       my staff, the Health Committee staff, the

        12       Majority Leader's office, the Governor's office,

        13       in an effort to respond to public comments that

        14       were made about the initial bill by the Speaker

        15       of the Assembly.

        16                      The Speaker of the Assembly had

        17       indicated that he had some reluctance to pass

        18       the original bill because it did not deal with

        19       the issue of prenatal counseling and possible

        20       testing.  He thought that we ought to deal with

        21       the bill on the basis of the front end of the

        22       pregnancy and also, then, address the part after

        23       the child is born.











                                                             
10408

         1                      As you know, our original bill

         2       just dealt with the part after the baby was

         3       born.  We had discussed this with several people

         4       over in the Assembly.  They feel this may give

         5       the Speaker the opportunity to work with this

         6       bill and to accept some kind of a compromise

         7       which is provided for in this bill, where we

         8       have prenatal counseling, we have prenatal

         9       testing, and we have the parts and elements of

        10       the original bill.

        11                      Now, this bill and the language

        12       was only ironed out last night at midnight.

        13       While the bill is now open for co-sponsorship by

        14       anybody, as I told you when you first approached

        15       me outside about an hour and a half or two hours

        16       ago, I would be happy to have you on.

        17       Certainly, your name would add prestige to the

        18       bill, and it would also reflect your support of

        19       this cause, or any other member in the house.

        20       It wasn't a partisan thing.

        21                      The fact of the matter is there

        22       are a lot of Republicans who are not listed as

        23       co-sponsors.  I would not take the liberty at











                                                             
10409

         1       midnight to add names to a bill of this nature

         2       without letting people have the opportunity to

         3       read it and see it.  I thought they would have

         4       the opportunity to read it and see it this

         5       morning and today, and they could buck-slip it,

         6       and they have my open authorization.

         7                      I was asked about a half an hour

         8       ago by the counsel to the Majority Leader if I

         9       had any objection to opening the bill to the

        10       Minority.  I said, no, I did not.  The bill was

        11       open to the Minority.  It is open to the

        12       Minority.  It is not a partisan issue.  There

        13       are Republican members on this side of the aisle

        14       that are not on this bill that will be buck

        15       slipping onto it.  I think this is such a

        16       worthwhile cause that there is enough credit to

        17       go around to everybody in this house who wants

        18       to support this measure.

        19                      Let me say that the changes in

        20       this bill addressing the merits of the bill, I

        21       think, go a long way to trying to compromise as

        22       to what the Speaker had indicated he was inter

        23       ested in.  A lot of the counseling provisions











                                                             
10410

         1       are part of the bill that Senator Tully passed

         2       in this house last year, which Assemblyman

         3       Gottfried also had part in.

         4                      So I think this is a good basis.

         5       Hopefully, the Speaker will see fit to pass this

         6       bill.  He may see fit to make some changes that

         7       we can agree to, and we may see this issue

         8       brought back for a third time when we return to

         9       the Senate.

        10                      But, certainly, I think this is a

        11       very positive step.  It goes a lot further than

        12       my original bill in dealing with the issues of

        13       counseling women, providing them with the

        14       opportunities to have the information available

        15       for them, and also the opportunity to deny the

        16       right to be tested prenatally.  So while there

        17       may have been a rush to print this and get it

        18       done by today, I want to clearly state that

        19       there was no offense intended to anyone that was

        20       omitted from the bill, whether they be

        21       Republican or Democrat.  It's just that at

        22       midnight, you can not put people's names on it.

        23       It certainly is open to be buck-slipped in, and











                                                             
10411

         1       anybody can have the pleasure of putting their

         2       name on the bill, as I had said an hour ago.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Stavisky.

         5                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Sometimes in

         6       the closing days or hours of a session, nerves

         7       are frayed, people are tired, mistakes are made,

         8       and there probably is enough blame to go around

         9       as to why mistakes were made in the handling of

        10       this issue.  Nevertheless, I don't believe that

        11       we should allow errors in judgment with regard

        12       to how legislation comes before us and whose

        13       name is on and whose name is off to be the sole

        14       consideration if the cause itself is just, and I

        15       believe that the cause is as just now as it was

        16       when we originally tackled this issue.

        17                      Not everyone will agree with

        18       that, and I respect your individual positions,

        19       but I hope that in the effort to prevent

        20       children from being tested without their

        21       parents' knowledge of what the test results

        22       were, and in our equally important desire to

        23       have prenatal counseling, which I support -











                                                             
10412

         1       and, in fact, last year, without Senator

         2       Velella's approval, I took a bill that had

         3       passed in the Assembly under Speaker Silver's

         4       name and I added a hostile amendment, or was

         5       prepared to add a hostile amendment in this

         6       chamber incorporating Assemblywoman Mayersohn's

         7       concept, which would have been a compromise

         8       bringing together the disclosure of the results

         9       of the testing to the mother in order to protect

        10       the baby and at the same time providing for

        11       counseling and other precautionary prenatal

        12       actions.

        13                      I don't like the way the bill

        14       came, in this rushed manner, today.  I don't

        15       like the fact that people who were sponsoring

        16       either or both of these measures when they were

        17       separate have had their names removed because,

        18       allegedly, there wasn't enough time to consult

        19       them.  If we want to make enough time, we know

        20       how to do it.  We know how to do a lot of things

        21       when the cause is just or even when it's not so

        22       just, and we want to get a bill passed.

        23                      So I'm saying, I hear what











                                                             
10413

         1       everyone has said.  I respect Senator Gold's

         2       position.  I respect the explanation of Senator

         3       Velella, and I'm going to ask Senator Velella to

         4       yield to a question.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Velella, will you yield?

         7                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator

         9       Velella, on the record, when a bill that is

        10       acceptable to the Assembly and is acceptable to

        11       the leadership of this house comes before us

        12       later in the session, do I have your assurance

        13       that the names of people who wish to co-sponsor

        14       that bill, presumably a done deal, a state

        15       statute, that all these names will be on the

        16       final bill?

        17                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Certainly,

        18       Senator.  Because as I said in the beginning,

        19       the Governor is very committed to this.  Certain

        20       members on this side and members on your side of

        21       the aisle are committed to it.  I don't believe

        22       this is an issue that sees partisan lines, and I

        23       will be happy to have my Democrat colleagues on











                                                             
10414

         1       any bill and will commit to you that they will

         2       have the opportunity to be on any bill.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Stavisky.

         5                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  With that

         6       explanation, I will ask that my name be added

         7       with a buck slip to this bill, and I will ask

         8       Senator Velella to keep that commitment to the

         9       members of this chamber who desire to be on a

        10       final version of a bill dealing with prenatal

        11       care as well as disclosure of HIV testing to the

        12       parents of the children.

        13                      I don't believe the issue needs a

        14       lengthy debate.  We've had one in this chamber.

        15       The feelings are very strong on both sides, and

        16       I ask that the members rationally, without

        17       feeling that they've been had or they've been

        18       taken for granted, that you agree to disagree as

        19       individuals.  Do not be put into a lockstep

        20       because of a feeling that you have been ignored

        21       or bypassed or overlooked.  When a mistake is

        22       made, it should be acknowledged.  Once it's

        23       acknowledged -











                                                             
10415

         1                      Is it my understanding that this

         2       bill will be laid aside?

         3                      SENATOR VELELLA:  At the request

         4       of the Minority Leader, to give the minority

         5       members an opportunity to put their slips in to

         6       the desk before the bill is passed, I would ask

         7       that the bill be laid aside for a few minutes,

         8       and they can get their buck slips in and then

         9       we'll continue on with the debate.  That's at

        10       the request of the Minority Leader.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        12       bill is temporarily laid aside.  We will,

        13       however, maintain the list.

        14                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Are the buck

        15       slips at the desk now so we don't have to go

        16       back to our office?

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Senator Velella.

        20                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Any Republican

        21       members can submit their slips now or later on,

        22       as the case may be.

        23                      (There was a pause in the











                                                             
10416

         1       proceedings.)

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         3       Senator Velella.

         4                      SENATOR VELELLA:  The sponsorship

         5       of the bill will remain open if any Republican

         6       members or Democratic members wish to put their

         7       names on the bill, even after this little

         8       interlude, so that members can file their buck

         9       slips.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        11       bill is temporarily laid aside to permit members

        12       to sign on if they wish, and the slips are right

        13       down here at the desk.

        14                      Senator Wright.

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.  We will now return to the original

        17       active list, Calendar Number 1375.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Secretary will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  1375, by Senator

        21       Nozzolio, Senate Print 5328A, an act to amend

        22       the Tax Law, in relation to extending the period

        23       for an additional one percent, Monroe County











                                                             
10417

         1       sales tax rate.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         3       Senator Wright.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         5       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Yes,

         7       there is a message of necessity at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I move we accept

         9       the message.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All

        11       those in favor of accepting the message of

        12       necessity, say aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed, nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The message of necessity is

        17       accepted.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        19       the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        23       the roll.











                                                             
10418

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Dollinger is recognized.

         5                      Senator Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just to

         7       explain my vote, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President, this bill extends the sales tax in

        12       Monroe County and represents a compromise and a

        13       worked-out settlement between the county

        14       executive, the mayor, school districts, towns -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Excuse

        16       me, Senator Dollinger.

        17                      Can we have some order in the

        18       house so that Senator Dollinger can be heard,

        19       please.

        20                      Senator Dollinger.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                      It represents a compromise











                                                             
10419

         1       between the county, the city, the towns, the

         2       suburban school districts.  There was a great

         3       deal of input during the process to come to this

         4       conclusion.  I think, Mr. President, that

         5       sometimes when a compromise is reached, not

         6       everybody is ecstatic, not everyone is over

         7       whelmed but, as one person once described it,

         8       they reach a mutual level of dissatisfaction,

         9       and I think that's what we have here.

        10                      We have an agreement that may not

        11       be everything that the city wanted, everything

        12       that the county wanted, but, nonetheless,

        13       reflects a reasonable compromise.  The mayor

        14       supports it, the county executive supports it,

        15       the school districts support it, the towns

        16       support it, and I stand here today to support it

        17       as well.

        18                      I commend my colleague from

        19       Monroe County, from the Webster portion of

        20       Monroe County, and the rest of Western New York,

        21       for his leadership in bringing the bill to the

        22       floor, and I hope we can pass this and,

        23       hopefully, use this bill as a jumping off point











                                                             
10420

         1       for an extended discussion about the use of

         2       sales tax versus property taxes in the Monroe

         3       County community in the future.

         4                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Nozzolio.

         7                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

         8       I ask permission to explain my vote.

         9                      Mr. President, my colleagues:  I

        10       echo those sentiments.  By passing this

        11       legislation to extend the Monroe County sales

        12       tax, our Senate has honored the commitment to

        13       Monroe County and the city of Rochester and the

        14       many towns and school districts within Monroe

        15       County.

        16                      The legislation was crafted with

        17       a cooperative spirit advanced in the Senate in a

        18       bipartisan manner, and I compliment each of the

        19       Monroe County delegation members on both sides

        20       of the aisle for their attention and spirit of

        21       cooperation throughout the deliberations.  As

        22       one who is entrusted with that responsibility of

        23       representing Monroe County, it's been a great











                                                             
10421

         1       honor to work with my colleagues in the Senate,

         2       as well as Assemblyman Gantt, in adopting this

         3       legislation.

         4                      County Executive Jack Doyle and

         5       Rochester Mayor Johnson deserve special

         6       commendation for their hard work on this issue

         7       and for promoting a spirit that can only lead to

         8       further enhancements for the people of Monroe

         9       County by our state legislative delegation.

        10                      I rise in support and urge my

        11       colleagues to do the same, Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank

        13       you, Senator Nozzolio.

        14                      Read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Wright.











                                                             
10422

         1                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         2       at this time, is there any housekeeping at the

         3       desk?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  No, at

         5       this time there is no housekeeping at the desk,

         6       Senator Wright.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         8       Senator Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       would you be kind enough to recognize Senator

        11       Nanula.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Nanula.

        14                      SENATOR NANULA:  Mr. President,

        15       if I had been in the chamber last evening, for

        16       the record, I would like it to show that I would

        17       have voted in the negative on Calendars 937 and

        18       1327.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        20       record will so reflect.

        21                      SENATOR NANULA:  Thank you.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Wright.











                                                             
10423

         1                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         2       we're going to return now to Calendar Number

         3       1409.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         5       Calendar Number 1409.  The Secretary will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1409, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5395-A,

         8       an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

         9       relation to the testing of pregnant women for

        10       the human immunodeficiency virus.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.  I was

        15       asking for an explanation, Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Velella, an explanation has been asked

        18       for.

        19                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator

        20       Paterson, as I mentioned before, this bill is

        21       the result of a lot of work, most particularly

        22       by Assemblywoman Mayersohn, a lot of members

        23       from our side of the aisle, a lot of members











                                                             
10424

         1       from your side of the aisle and definitely a

         2       commitment from the new executive of this state

         3       to seriously address the problem of baby AIDS or

         4       children being born with the AIDS virus or

         5       antibody.

         6                      As you know, my prior bill dealt

         7       only with the post-birth problem of identifying

         8       or letting parents know that their child had

         9       been born with the presence of the HIV antibody

        10       and providing for the unblinding of the test.

        11                      This is a commitment by the

        12       Governor, both financially and his own personal

        13       belief.  When he was a member of this house, he

        14       supported the bill and he supported Senator

        15       Tully's bill on counseling that we have to

        16       address this problem, not only after the child

        17       is born and identify those children who have the

        18       virus or have the potential for the virus or

        19       have the antibody, but we also must do the best

        20       that we can do in view of new technology, new

        21       testing that's available to make it make women

        22       aware, one, of the problem and the availability

        23       of testing, and this bill provides for when a











                                                             
10425

         1       woman first goes to a doctor and it's determined

         2       that she is pregnant, that the doctor advises

         3       her about the wisdom of being tested for HIV and

         4       give her the opportunity to reject if she so

         5       chooses that test but to counsel her and to

         6       discuss with her the need for being tested so

         7       that if, in fact, she does have that dreaded

         8       disease, it will not be transmitted or some

         9       prevention can be used by treatment with AZT

        10       which seems to be something that is progressing,

        11       and hopefully as we go on each month, we will

        12       find newer and newer things to deal with this

        13       problem, but certainly there has been some

        14       success in treating women during the course of

        15       their pregnancy to prevent transmission of the

        16       disease to their child.  In addition, once the

        17       child is born and should the test -- the child

        18       test positive, again, there is a provision for

        19       test -- for counseling for referral services.

        20                      This is very expensive, as you

        21       know.  It's several millions of dollars.  The

        22       Governor of this state has committed the money

        23       for the counseling part, for the testing part











                                                             
10426

         1       for this program.  It is a giant step forward

         2       from where we were when we were talking about

         3       the other bills that have been passed by this

         4       house.

         5                      People will have the opportunity

         6       to be counseled, to get the proper referrals and

         7       to get the proper treatment.  I think this is a

         8       giant step forward for all of us and it is a

         9       major commitment by the Governor of this state

        10       to basically put his money where his mouth is,

        11       that he is concerned about this problem.  He is

        12       willing to commit the dollars to it and make the

        13       commitment for the future to see that these

        14       children do not contact this dreaded disease if,

        15       in fact, it is at all preventable and if, in

        16       fact, they do have it to make their days here as

        17       safe, enjoyable and pleasant as possible and

        18       probably save a few lives along the way.

        19                      So I think that that basically

        20       sums up where we are on this bill and I will be

        21       happy to answer any questions that you have.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Hoffmann.











                                                             
10427

         1                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      This bill marks an important

         4       turning point in New York State because we are

         5       beginning to come out of the dark ages where we

         6       have, unfortunately, treated the entire HIV

         7       issue from a political perspective much too

         8       often, instead of regarding the problems of HIV

         9       as a communicable disease issue, and if we can

        10       shift the focus through this bill and other

        11       bills so that the affected populations can get

        12       the earliest medical intervention possible, we

        13       will have saved lives and we will have done

        14       something truly significant.

        15                      I have been a sponsor of the

        16       earlier measure.  I have now buck-slipped my

        17       name to retain my sponsorship on this new

        18       compromised bill, and I will continue to speak

        19       out openly and vigorously on the need for

        20       greater testing, in a few cases mandatory

        21       testing of other populations, including the

        22       inmate population in the state of New York which

        23       I have sponsored a bill a number of years that











                                                             
10428

         1       would address that issue and I look forward to

         2       the day when it too can become a matter of law.

         3                      I am somewhat troubled, however,

         4       and want to just pause for a moment because we

         5       are going into the final days of session in this

         6       house, in this Legislature, at the beginning of

         7       a new term for the Governor of this state who is

         8       operating under many, many constraints, coming

         9       into office and discovering an enormous deficit

        10       dealing with new leadership in one house on both

        11       sides of the aisle, not to mention the get

        12       acquainted problems of bringing together an

        13       enormous staff and getting to know the landscape

        14       of the state.  It must be a very, very onerous

        15       and burdensome responsibility.

        16                      Throughout this time, Governor

        17       Pataki has been a -- a warm-hearted individual,

        18       I think on many fronts.  He has been well

        19       received in my part of the state.  Although we

        20       are from different political parties, I continue

        21       to have much respect for him and agree with him

        22       philosophically on many things.

        23                      But one thing that he campaigned











                                                             
10429

         1       on which I hope he will not abandon was a desire

         2       to change the secrecy in Albany as it affects

         3       important decision-making, and this particular

         4       bill and the last few hours of its history are a

         5       throw-back to a bygone era and I hope we will

         6       not be subjected to this type of maneuvering in

         7       midnight meetings in the future.

         8                      I can recall being asked to

         9       attend a bipartisan press conference, I think it

        10       was about the 2nd of April -- the 1st or 2nd of

        11       April -- one of the few that we had in this hall

        12       this year.  In fact, one of the few in many

        13       years at which Senator Velella and Assembly

        14       Mayersohn -- Assemblywoman Mayersohn and a whole

        15       host of legislators from both houses, from both

        16       sides of the aisle, stood and made our pledge to

        17       do what this bill would now do.  It was a -- it

        18       was a special moment because it signified true

        19       bipartisan cooperation and determination to see

        20       something through.

        21                      To hear on the floor earlier

        22       today that a measure had been agreed to only at

        23       midnight last night and there was not time to











                                                             
10430

         1       contact the original sponsors is simply not an

         2       acceptable way for us to conduct business, and

         3       while I very much appreciate Senator Velella's

         4       taking the time and being gracious enough to

         5       allow all of us to have our names added again to

         6       the bill, I recall reading a newspaper story a

         7       few months ago that listed a very large number

         8       of staff people who worked for Senator Velella

         9       and my guess is he probably could have had some

        10       of those staff, including the very capable Donna

        11       Montalto who was a member of my staff many years

        12       ago as an intern, they probably could have

        13       contacted all ten of the Democratic sponsors and

        14       every Republican sponsor in the hours from

        15       midnight last night until 4:00 o'clock this

        16       afternoon to ask us if we wanted to remain on

        17       the bill.

        18                      In fact, there are many examples

        19       of that courtesy having been extended this

        20       year.  In fact, not too long ago, Senator

        21       Velella -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Hoffmann, would you yield to Senator











                                                             
10431

         1       Velella?

         2                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  In one second.

         3       Just let me complete this.

         4                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Just a quick

         5       question.

         6                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I'll yield in

         7       one second, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Senator Hoffmann.

        10                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you.

        11                      In fact, as a very nice case in

        12       point, not too long ago, Senator Volker as the

        13       prime sponsor of the death penalty, had one of

        14       his top counsels make frequent phone calls and

        15       FAX material back and forth, ask how late we

        16       would be available in the office while we were

        17       revising the death penalty bill as we were

        18       approaching a final close down on that measure.

        19                      So I will extend to Senator

        20       Velella my desire to be as cooperative as I

        21       possibly can.  I will keep my office open.  I

        22       will come in at midnight.  I have FAXes at my

        23       apartment and on my farm and I will remain in











                                                             
10432

         1       close contact as this process develops, but more

         2       importantly, I want to send the message to

         3       Governor Pataki and Senator Bruno that all of us

         4       hope that we can avoid the type of stressful

         5       experience we just endured a few moments ago in

         6       this chamber by having true bipartisan

         7       cooperation throughout the process, and now I

         8       will be more than happy to yield to Senator

         9       Velella.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        11       Senator Velella to answer a question.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, I

        13       would just like to ask you to do me a personal

        14       favor and make the commitment yourself to

        15       collect the phone numbers of those Minority

        16       Senators that would like my staff to have it and

        17       where they will be at midnight on any nights so

        18       that I could reach them in the event that this

        19       happens again and will be able to prevent it, so

        20       if you would turn over the numbers to me of

        21       where all of the members will be at midnight, I

        22       will be happy to be sure this never happens

        23       again.











                                                             
10433

         1                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I will be more

         2       than happy -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         4       Senator Hoffmann.

         5                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I will be more than happy to

         8       provide that information to Senator Velella, but

         9       I think it's probably quite clear that it would

        10       not have been necessary in this case since our

        11       offices were open at 8:30 this morning and it's

        12       now 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon.  There had

        13       been time for that to have been done, and I also

        14       recognize that a simple call to the Minority

        15       Leader through his staff which is available 24

        16       hours a day would have elicited that information

        17       without any great difficulty.  There were only

        18       ten of us, so I'm sure that we're all off to a

        19       much better start going into the waning days of

        20       this session.  We will all exchange lots of

        21       phone numbers and FAX numbers and we will have

        22       no more problems with sponsors' names

        23       disappearing from measures as they sometimes











                                                             
10434

         1       have in the past.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         3       Senator Marcellino.

         4                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                      I supported the earlier form of

         7       this bill and I support this form.  I thank

         8       Senator Velella and Senator Hannon for their

         9       efforts.  I recognize that negotiations often

        10       take longer than anyone would like and sometimes

        11       they're rather torturous.  We went through

        12       torturous budget negotiations, sometimes the

        13       procedure wasn't to everybody's liking but I

        14       think ultimately we ended up with a good budget

        15       bill, not perfect but a good one.  This bill may

        16       not be perfect in every way, but it's a good

        17       bill.  It's a better bill than the previous

        18       bill.  Many accommodations were made and I'm

        19       pleased to support it, and I thank the efforts

        20       of those involved.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        22       Chair recognizes Senator Mendez.

        23                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I











                                                             
10435

         1       really want to express my joy at the fact that

         2       there has been agreement to pass this bill, both

         3       here and in the Assembly.  The reason being that

         4       in my district as well as in all minority

         5       districts of the state of New York, 99.9 percent

         6       of minority women are the ones that,

         7       unfortunately, are being infected with the -

         8       with the AIDS virus and are the ones that,

         9       unfortunately, are giving birth to children also

        10       infected with the HIV virus.

        11                      I really must say that I want to

        12       thank Senator Velella and Senator Hannon for the

        13       work that they have done, as well as that

        14       wonderful and effective Assemblywoman Nettie

        15       Mayersohn for her interest in a subject matter,

        16       in a health problem that is -- health problem

        17       that is so vitally important to the -- to all

        18       the residents of the state of New York.

        19                      In summary, I want to mention

        20       that it is now -- once more, I want to reiterate

        21       that the -- that the greater group at risk in

        22       terms of that horrible disease are women and

        23       99.9 percent of those women, I must say, are











                                                             
10436

         1       minority women, so you can see the importance of

         2       this -- of this bill.

         3                      I want to thank the Governor for

         4       committing funds to pay for the -- the

         5       counseling program and for testing and what have

         6       you, and I also want to mention that, believe

         7       you me, Mr. President, I am very happy that this

         8       little tempest in a teapot has been resolved,

         9       because the bottom line is that I would have

        10       supported that bill whether my name would have

        11       been on it or not.  Of course, I think that the

        12       graciousness of Senator Velella and Senator

        13       Connor and the others at resolving this issue is

        14       very important because it did give each one of

        15       those that are so strongly committed to do

        16       whatever we have to do to ease the lives of

        17       those who are suffering from this disease.  It

        18       gives us the opportunity to partake in a

        19       collective effort to try to resolve, but I also

        20       want to mention that I hope that once this is in

        21       place, suddenly we don't see a whole emphasis in

        22       providing treatment of AZT to all the women who

        23       are -- who are pregnant and are -- and are -











                                                             
10437

         1       and are found to have the HIV virus because, I

         2       believe it's two or -- two or three percent, I

         3       don't recall, of the -- of the babies that are

         4       born of women who have been pregnant receiving

         5       AZT are without the HIV virus, but normally a

         6       pregnant woman who has a child with HIV, as the

         7       child develops its own immunological system by

         8       the age of 18 months, many of them shed off the

         9       virus.

        10                      So I do hope with this program

        11       that there would also be a program of research

        12       in terms of -- in terms of, if there are any

        13       secondary effects on the development of a child

        14       of a woman who has -- who has been treated with

        15       AZT.

        16                      So it's a happy day, Mr.

        17       President, and I will be voting yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank

        19       you, Senator.

        20                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        21       Gold.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you very

        23       much, Mr. President.











                                                             
10438

         1                      Mr. President, I guess it becomes

         2       a question of definition as to what is a tempest

         3       in whose teapot.

         4                      I've seen members in this house

         5       get very, very excited over things that other

         6       members would shrug their shoulders about, so I

         7       guess it depends how you react to issues as to

         8       whether something is or is not a tempest in a

         9       teapot.

        10                      At any rate, I would like to

        11       correct my colleague in that, if I understood

        12       her properly, if she said that there's agreement

        13       and this will pass some way in the other house,

        14       I think it's been acknowledged there's no such

        15       agreement and this bill ain't goin' to pass in

        16       the other house.

        17                      As a matter of fact, during some

        18       of the conversations, it was made clear that

        19       this is a posturing in order to continue some

        20       kind of negotiation and I think Senator Stavisky

        21       very graciously tried to get some concessions on

        22       the floor, that when there is a bill that may be

        23       a law, that people will be listed on it.











                                                             
10439

         1                      So while this may be a just

         2       cause, we are here again spending the time of

         3       this chamber less than four hours from our

         4       appointed adjourned time, posturing.

         5                      Now, negotiations are

         6       negotiations and they take place all the time.

         7       Why we have to spend taxpayer money to print

         8       bills that are posturing in order to negotiate,

         9       I don't know.  Now, I will admit to you that

        10       taxpayer money gets spent in printing bills that

        11       don't pass, but we put them in and we state our

        12       positions and we hope very much that we can pass

        13       them, but for the posturing, I say to myself,

        14       there really should be some time limit.

        15                      The other point is really a

        16       simple point.  While I can respect the work that

        17       people do on an issue, very often what happens

        18       is that the Majority walks in here with its 31

        19       votes and they don't care whether we have a

        20       minute or 30 seconds or 20 minutes to examine a

        21       piece of legislation because they've got their

        22       31 votes and they couldn't care less what

        23       happens to it.











                                                             
10440

         1                      When there's a piece of

         2       legislation such as this issue where its very

         3       obvious without votes on our side of the aisle,

         4       well, of course, it seems to work a little

         5       better, but having said that, a member of the

         6       Legislature by definition, I think, should not

         7       be a bungee cord, and we should not be there for

         8       people to bounce us around as they want for

         9       their political purposes or for their very

        10       worthy just cause purposes.

        11                      There are people who have been

        12       recognized as leaders in a particular issue, and

        13       that's fine.  Let them lead, but I never gave

        14       anybody my proxy for anything that they may do.

        15       I do not believe in legislation by label.

        16                      I know every once in a while

        17       somebody says, "Well, I don't want to vote no

        18       here because somebody back home may say that I'm

        19       switching positions" and I understand and

        20       respect peoples' respect for their constituency

        21       and how they work their particular legislative

        22       careers, but I don't believe in labels, and

        23       while I do believe in the concept of the











                                                             
10441

         1       original bill and I do believe in the -- in the

         2       disclosing of this information, it doesn't mean

         3       I would vote for any bill in that -- in that

         4       particular field.

         5                      And if this is not the final bill

         6       and if some of the concerns of the Assembly

         7       Speaker have been met as Senator Velella says -

         8       and I don't doubt that he's telling the truth,

         9       but yet Assemblyman Silver and the Majority over

        10       there is not going to deal with this bill, I

        11       don't know what all of this is really all

        12       about.  I don't understand it.  We're now, I

        13       think, three hours and fifteen minutes from our

        14       orderly promised adjournment, and we're

        15       posturing, and the answer is that I feel as

        16       strongly about this issue as anybody.  I respect

        17       people who will vote yes because we continuously

        18       must vote yes.

        19                      I intend personally to vote in

        20       the negative because I don't want this issue

        21       postured anymore.  I want a bill.  I want a

        22       final bill.  I do not believe that the way you

        23       get a final bill is to just keep bringing them











                                                             
10442

         1       up and changing it every other day.  I think you

         2       sit down and work it out or you don't work it

         3       out.

         4                      There was a comment made

         5       yesterday and I commented on it but I'm going to

         6       repeat it, that we on this side did something in

         7       order to embarrass you on the other side and my

         8       comment was, if you don't believe in an issue or

         9       you do believe in an issue and that's the way

        10       you vote, why would you have been embarrassed?

        11       And it's the same thing on this.

        12                      We will negotiate with or without

        13       this bill today.  I cannot believe in my wildest

        14       imagination that passing this bill today is

        15       going to change the negotiation because there

        16       are people of pretty fixed ideas on both sides

        17       and they must soften and come to some agreement

        18       on each side and then we'll have a bill and I

        19       don't think the additional posturing does

        20       anything.

        21                      I think that when we as a Senate

        22       passed 2704, we sent our message.  The New York

        23       State Senate has 31 votes for a baby AIDS bill.











                                                             
10443

         1       That was the message.  It hadn't changed.  So

         2       now with three hours and fourteen minutes to go,

         3       we're going to tell the other side, not only do

         4       we have 31 votes but we have 31 votes.  It seems

         5       to be the same message, because when people

         6       debate this bill, you don't debate the merits of

         7       the bill, you debate the label.  It's the

         8       label.

         9                      People have been running around

        10       here saying, "Can we get on a bill, not get on a

        11       bill" and they don't know what the bill does.

        12       Senator Velella, this may be a better bill, I

        13       don't know, but that's not why people want to be

        14       on it.  They want to be on it because of the

        15       label.

        16                      Well, Senator, I can only speak

        17       for myself and I'm sure I'm in the minority on

        18       this, but I'm not voting for it and supporting

        19       labels.

        20                      Senator, when there's a bill that

        21       is a serious bill, I would love to look at it,

        22       probably would support it, but I'm calling an

        23       end, Senator, to this business and I'm going to











                                                             
10444

         1       vote no.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

         3       the last section.

         4                      I'm sorry.  Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       I'm sorry.  I was moved by the remarks of the

         7       last speaker and didn't rise in time, but now

         8       that I have, I think that there is a great deal

         9       of support for this legislation.  I think that's

        10       why we had a slight misunderstanding a little

        11       while ago, and I think there's a great deal of

        12       misunderstanding of the very few.  I think there

        13       are only nine Senators in this chamber who voted

        14       against this bill and I think those individuals

        15       were labeled kind of hoodwinked and cajoled and

        16       even challenged as if they were serving out -

        17       and I was one of them -- the interest of

        18       lobbying groups and that kind of thing, and we

        19       were trying to speak to the merits of the bill

        20       and that's what I'm going to try to do right

        21       now.

        22                      I actually would have preferred

        23       the bill that I voted against in March to the











                                                             
10445

         1       bill that exists on the floor today.  Let me

         2       cite one of those reasons.  In the bill we have

         3       today, we are really setting up a -- separate

         4       guidelines for testing and counseling for

         5       pregnant women as opposed to the rest of the

         6       population.

         7                      There's only one type of medical

         8       investigation in which we would not have -- in

         9       which we would have a similar situation when we

        10       separate the tested from the rest of the

        11       population, and that is an autopsy where we're

        12       testing the deceased and there's no informed

        13       consent because the deceased can't talk.

        14                      In every other situation, we have

        15       uniform testing and counseling guidelines.  We

        16       have gone totally away from it in this piece of

        17       legislation by giving the commissioner the right

        18       to set up the new guidelines.  We don't know

        19       what the counseling is going to be.  We don't

        20       know if there's going to be any counseling at

        21       all.  We don't know if the counseling is going

        22       to be so stringent that it actually could become

        23       a health care problem within itself because now











                                                             
10446

         1       the pregnant woman is being badgered rather than

         2       being counseled for the interest of conducting

         3       this test.

         4                      Let me cite my second objection

         5       to the legislation.  We are setting up in this

         6       legislation what is really going to be a

         7       situation where we're going to have double

         8       testing.  We're testing the pregnant woman, then

         9       we're testing the newborn.  Well, if we find out

        10       that the mother is HIV-positive, why do we have

        11       to test the newborn at that point?  We already

        12       know that we have a problem, but we're going to

        13       test the newborn again.  We're going to put

        14       people in this very precarious position as a

        15       result of double testing as a result of this

        16       bill -- and let me point out that this is

        17       actually different than something that existed

        18       in the last bill.

        19                      Now, the Governor has consented

        20       and has been complimented on the floor for

        21       putting money into this program, $3.8 million,

        22       but where's the money coming from?  The money is

        23       coming from the bad debt and charity pool to











                                                             
10447

         1       hospitals.  So we're really, I guess, taking

         2       money that's going to try to save lives to put

         3       it in another area that's going to try to save

         4       lives, except in the original area, we're at

         5       least assured that we're saving lives.

         6                      So this $3.8 million then is

         7       generously intended, and I don't question the

         8       intentions of anyone that drafted, supported or

         9       is even lobbying for this bill, because more

        10       than any other piece of legislation I debated on

        11       the floor this year, I don't think that it's a

        12       difference of opinion.  I think it's a

        13       reflection of understanding that brings us to

        14       different positions on this legislation, and

        15       $3.8 million going away from hospitals -- the

        16       hospitals are complaining now.

        17                      The hospital is required to

        18       notify the parents of the newborn that tests

        19       positive.  The hospitals are already complaining

        20       that there's a pocket of individuals who are

        21       afflicted and that it has been extremely

        22       difficult and there is an extreme strain on the

        23       hospitals to get in contact with the parents











                                                             
10448

         1       now.  Now we're going to try to mandate them to

         2       go out and find individuals who probably after

         3       the testing has taken place don't even really

         4       want to be found.

         5                      And so there are just some

         6       complications that don't even have to do with

         7       the basic issue that I have with supporting this

         8       piece of legislation on its face.

         9                      Why do we want to change the

        10       inherent guidelines to such an extent that we

        11       are now going to have an entire separate system

        12       just for pregnant women; in other words,

        13       separating them from every other class of

        14       individuals who are tested in our society.

        15                      And now let's get to what I think

        16       is the critical issue, the actual treatment.  We

        17       understand how deadly and hazardous this disease

        18       is, but we understand that the same way we

        19       understand that we don't want an atom bomb

        20       dropped on this chamber.  Nobody knows what an

        21       atom bomb would do but everyone knows they don't

        22       want to see it fall.

        23                      The point is that when it comes











                                                             
10449

         1       to the results of HIV testing and the finding of

         2       a -- of a positive, the treatment, particularly

         3       as I pointed out a couple months ago with AZT,

         4       can be one of the most dangerous situations we

         5       can ever involve ourselves in, particularly with

         6       newborns, and particularly if we treat the

         7       mother too early in the pregnancy.

         8                      AZT has been effective when used

         9       to treat the pregnant woman in the seventh

        10       month, but when we start to see our current

        11       medical treatments as panaceas for the problem

        12       and we're getting up and making statements that

        13       we want the earliest possible medical

        14       intervention when we don't even know that the

        15       medical intervention exacerbated the problem

        16       over five years ago when newborns that were

        17       treated with AZT, they all died, not the few or

        18       the great number of percentage that sero

        19       converted over an 18-month period.

        20                      AZT is an immunodepressant drug

        21       treating an immunodeficient virus.  In other

        22       words, it exacerbates the same virus it treats,

        23       so only in specialized situations can it











                                                             
10450

         1       actually be effective.  There are other

         2       treatments for pneumonia that are actually very

         3       good that we could treat if we understand that

         4       the baby is HIV-positive and may contract the

         5       narcissoma pneumonia that we're aware of, but

         6       these are things that were taken into account

         7       when the Center for Disease Control basically

         8       threw out this system, and the reason they threw

         9       out this system was because it was being abused,

        10       not being abused by individuals who didn't

        11       care.  It was being abused by individuals who

        12       didn't understand the medical protocols and they

        13       are now re-reviewing those protocols to see what

        14       the apt treatment would be for individuals who

        15       are afflicted with the HIV virus based on

        16       testing.

        17                      And so these are not only the

        18       reasons that I oppose the legislation, but I

        19       also have cited the reasons why I oppose this

        20       bill as it would discriminate against the

        21       original bill that came out that did not set up

        22       the double standard as we have today.

        23                      I think that this subject











                                                             
10451

         1       certainly needs more work.  I think that there

         2       is a desperate attempt by individuals to pass

         3       legislation right now because it's such a

         4       horrible situation that they're doing the very

         5       best they can to try to actually treat it, and

         6       for that, I commend them.

         7                      Where there is not quite an

         8       understanding of how horrible and tragic and

         9       lachrymose the results of this disease is, is a

        10       matter for research and a matter for

        11       understanding and a matter for exactly what some

        12       individuals said earlier, putting aside labels

        13       and really getting into the research that would

        14       help us to find a cure for the HIV virus and

        15       inevitably the AIDS disease.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Abate.

        18                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Would

        19       Senator Velella yield to two questions?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Velella, would you yield for two

        22       questions from Senator Abate?

        23                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Certainly.











                                                             
10452

         1                      SENATOR ABATE:  There are two

         2       issues of concern that I don't understand and

         3       maybe you can clarify -- well, there may be

         4       other issues, but two that are new issues.

         5                      In 1988, I believe, the medical

         6       profession got together through a task force or

         7       a committee and came up with a Public Health Law

         8       2781 and it dealt with what kind of counseling,

         9       consent, post-counseling, precounseling to the

        10       testing.  Why now is this legislation exempting

        11       pregnant women from this Public Health Law

        12       provision?  My understanding now, only dead

        13       people are exempted and individuals that donate

        14       organs.  Now we're putting pregnant women into

        15       that exemption.  Why are we doing that?

        16                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Well, Senator,

        17       I'll explain the reason and I'll explain

        18       something else to you about my own thinking.

        19                      My own thinking is that that

        20       whole article is nothing but a special privilege

        21       bill for the AIDS -- so-called AIDS treatment of

        22       people who are so-called AIDS victims.  I

        23       believe we should treat AIDS as we do every











                                                             
10453

         1       other communicable disease and we shouldn't be

         2       using special interest and special laws to treat

         3       them any differently.  A contagious disease is a

         4       contagious disease, no matter what it is, but

         5       the reason that we have now exempted pregnant

         6       women is because of the fact that pregnant women

         7       transmit the disease to an innocent life and

         8       we're trying to stop that, and this bill and

         9       this legislation hopefully is the best shot we

        10       have at stopping that innocent, young, unborn

        11       child or newborn child from getting the disease,

        12       and the way we're doing that is by putting that

        13       exemption in that section.

        14                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes,, but my

        15       understanding of Public Health Law 2781, it

        16       really presents guidelines for the doctors in

        17       terms of how they do the counseling, and if you

        18       take those guidelines away, in effect, we may be

        19       reducing the impact and the meaningfulness of

        20       that counseling and that's what my concern is.

        21       Why are we removing pregnant women when they

        22       need meaningful counsel?  We're taking them out

        23       of these guidelines, so I guess that's my -











                                                             
10454

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, I

         2       believe again those special guidelines for this

         3       special group of people for this special disease

         4       which I call the only politically protected

         5       disease known to mankind is, in my opinion,

         6       unnecessary.

         7                      We have medical doctors who every

         8       day have to counsel people.  I mean, a doctor

         9       has to tell someone that they are dying of

        10       terminal cancer.  Who counsels them to accept

        11       this terrible news?  Somebody has to face the

        12       fact that they're going to die of a heart attack

        13       or they're going to die of a liver disease.

        14       Doctors do this all the time.  Why do we need

        15       special laws for people who have AIDS?

        16                      SENATOR ABATE:  If I can just

        17       respond to that question why.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Senator Abate.

        20                      SENATOR ABATE:  If I can respond

        21       to the question why.  I don't think there's ever

        22       a disease that has faced so much discrimination.

        23       If you remember not so long ago we were talking











                                                             
10455

         1       about quarantines.  We were talking about people

         2       who couldn't work, couldn't have housing, so

         3       it's a disease that's associated with an

         4       enormous amount of prejudice and discrimination.

         5       So that's why there's certain guidelines.

         6                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, would

         7       you yield to a question?

         8                      SENATOR ABATE:  Sure.

         9                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Have you ever

        10       heard of leprosy?

        11                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Have you heard

        13       of tuberculosis and some of the stories that

        14       were done with people during those times?  They

        15       were serious too.

        16                      SENATOR ABATE:  I guess my second

        17       -- I won't debate this issue.  My second issue

        18       is it's my understanding -

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        20       Senator Velella, do you continue to yield for a

        21       question?

        22                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

        23                      SENATOR ABATE:  My second











                                                             
10456

         1       question, if a woman refuses a test, that piece

         2       of paper goes into her medical files, "refuses

         3       to test."  I think -- I think that's the case.

         4       And that -- so clearly the doctor knows who's

         5       been tested and who hasn't been tested, yet this

         6       bill will spend $3.8 million testing all the

         7       women, even the women who have consented to be

         8       tested prenatally.  My understanding is when

         9       women are adequately counseled, they will end up

        10       voluntarily testing themselves, and what this

        11       bill does, even the women, the 98 percent that

        12       agree to be tested prenatally, they also will be

        13       put in the pool on the back end and their babies

        14       will be tested and there will have to be

        15       notification and the hospitals will have to fine

        16       them.  Why are we doing it for the 98 percent

        17       who have already agreed to be tested?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        19       Senator Velella, do you -

        20                      SENATOR VELELLA:  The answer to

        21       that is for the exact same reason that we do it

        22       for syphilis and that we do it for a battery of

        23       other listed communicable diseases.  All I want











                                                             
10457

         1       to do is treat that disease as we do every other

         2       contagious disease and not treat it any special

         3       way.  Let's fight it the way this Legislature -

         4       the way legislators long before us have had to

         5       deal with contagious diseases have fought those

         6       diseases of their time.

         7                      AIDS is the disease of our time.

         8       Let's fight it in the proven way.  The same way

         9       we have wiped out those other diseases, we will

        10       wipe out AIDS and we will find a cure.  We have

        11       found some very progressive things to do hope

        12       fully to prevent the transmission to children

        13       that are in their mothers' wombs.  Let's do what

        14       we can to stop the spread of this disease and

        15       help those who have it.

        16                      SENATOR ABATE:  I guess I

        17       disagree on these two points I raise, and the

        18       reason is when you test the baby, you're really

        19       testing the condition of the mother, and so if

        20       the woman -- the mother already agrees to be

        21       tested herself, we're not giving her any more

        22       valuable information.  She knows her condition.

        23       We're wasting money.  We're making hospitals











                                                             
10458

         1       more liable.  They're going to have to now

         2       communicate with mothers and we're not going to

         3       be giving them any more useful information.

         4                      But thank you, Senator Velella.

         5                      SENATOR VELELLA:  May I respond

         6       to that, Senator?

         7                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR VELELLA:  The only thing

         9       that we are doing, and again, I tell you, when

        10       we do test those babies, we are catching the

        11       ones that have slipped through the cracks.  The

        12       people probably in the most frequent -- in the

        13       most high risk group, those women that show up

        14       at the maternity ward, at the hospital ready to

        15       give birth that haven't had the advantage of

        16       prenatal treatment, that haven't had the

        17       advantage of a test, they come in, they have

        18       their baby and then we test the baby and find

        19       out, so we're going to catch a lot of those

        20       babies, the ones that fall between the cracks,

        21       and that's part of the reason why we're going to

        22       test all the babies born.

        23                      Additionally, hopefully we'll be











                                                             
10459

         1       able to identify and can maintain the areas that

         2       there is the high frequency because, as you

         3       know, the federal government may be withdrawing

         4       their money for the blind testing, and we won't

         5       be able to determine where the high frequency

         6       is, so by testing these babies at state expense,

         7       which the Governor has made the commitment, we

         8       will be able to identify the high instance

         9       areas, the high instance groups and hopefully

        10       fight this disease the way we have otherwise.

        11                      SENATOR ABATE:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Oppenheimer.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I had a lot

        15       of the same concerns that were just mentioned.

        16       The fact is that the federal government has

        17       stopped in the last six weeks, seven weeks doing

        18       any testing, so that's finished as far as the

        19       blind testing, you're right, it's finished.

        20                      The funding, I would be happy to

        21       hear that some additional money was going to

        22       come into this.  Unfortunately, from what I

        23       understand that $3.8 million that will be going











                                                             
10460

         1       to test the babies is going to be coming from

         2       the bad debt and charity pool; is that true,

         3       Senator?  Would you respond?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         5       Senator Velella, would you yield to a question?

         6                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.  What's

         7       the question, Senator?

         8                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I

         9       understand that the money that is going to the

        10       testing of the babies is going to be coming,

        11       that 3.8 million, from the bad debt and charity

        12       pool?

        13                      SENATOR VELELLA:  That will be

        14       next year, yes, to supplement the shortfall for

        15       next year.  That's a very good investment

        16       because by catching this early, we will be able

        17       to save the long-term treatment hopefully that

        18       becomes necessary for these children when they

        19       go totally untreated at birth and develop the

        20       full blown AIDS disease.  We can better control

        21       it and most of these babies, unfortunately, will

        22       be funded by the bad debt and charity pool.  So

        23       if we catch the disease early enough, we can do











                                                             
10461

         1       some things to minimize the impact and it will

         2       be an offset, another $3.8 million offset, but

         3       somewhat of an offset.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Could

         6       we have some order in the chamber, please, so

         7       that we can hear both Senator Oppenheimer and

         8       Senator Velella.

         9                      Senator Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If Senator

        11       Oppenheimer would just suffer a brief

        12       interruption.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        14       Senator Oppenheimer.

        15                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I yield.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If Senator

        19       Velella would just yield for a question.  It's

        20       just this specific -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Senator Velella, would you yield for a question

        23       from Senator Paterson?











                                                             
10462

         1                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  It's this

         3       specific point that disturbs me, Senator

         4       Velella.  If you're talking about a pregnant

         5       woman -- treating the pregnant woman, that's one

         6       thing, but if you're talking about medical

         7       intervention to treat the newborn, those who are

         8       in favor of this bill have been able to cite

         9       evidence where some of the ancillary diseases

        10       have been able to be treated by the use of a

        11       number of drugs, but I don't know that there's

        12       any hard evidence that we can treat the HIV

        13       virus in newborns, and I think that that's where

        14       the misperception is being gained by the public

        15       and a lot of other people that we really are -

        16       even if there's some disagreement between you

        17       and I on that one point, but there seems to be

        18       an overestimation of what we can actually do if

        19       we have learned that a person is HIV-positive,

        20       because then I'm going to have to ask you the

        21       question, what do we do when adults are -- are

        22       diagnosed as being HIV-positive?  Has medical

        23       intervention affected their lives when there was











                                                             
10463

         1       early intervention?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         3       Senator Velella.

         4                      SENATOR VELELLA:  If I may

         5       respond just briefly.  There absolutely is no

         6       cure today for that disease and certainly I have

         7       not in any way tried to indicate that if we get

         8       an early detection, we are going to cure the

         9       disease.  However, I have heard -

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  That's all I'm

        11       saying.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Just let me say

        13       to respond to the point that Senator Oppenheimer

        14       made -- let me finish -- was that by detecting

        15       the disease early in infants, we can make their

        16       lives more comfortable, reduce the instances of

        17       pneumonia and the severity of pneumonias and

        18       ultimately prolong their life into teenage when

        19       hopefully we'll have a cure.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        21       Senator Oppenheimer.

        22                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Senator

        23       Velella, would you yield for another question?











                                                             
10464

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         2       Senator Velella, would you yield for a question

         3       from Senator Oppenheimer?

         4                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes, I'll

         5       yield.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Can we

         7       have some quiet in the chamber so that we could

         8       hear both Senator Velella, who is very easy to

         9       hear and Senator Oppenheimer who is a little

        10       more difficult to hear.

        11                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  All right.

        13       I'll talk up.  Would you say that a considerable

        14       number of the children that test HIV-positive at

        15       birth, perhaps as many as 75 to 80 percent do

        16       not have anything but their mother's antibodies

        17       in them and that they will shrug them off by the

        18       age of five months or six months?

        19                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, I

        20       believe we did this in the last debate.

        21       Absolutely right unless the virus is

        22       reintroduced to them through breast feeding or

        23       something of that nature or some kind of bodily











                                                             
10465

         1       fluid contact.  That's why it's so important

         2       that the mother be told that she has the disease

         3       and she not transmit it to the child.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         5       Senator Oppenheimer.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I think we

         7       all agree on the mandatory counseling.  There's

         8       no question that you have a million percent

         9       agreement on that.

        10                      The drugs that would be used,

        11       however, on the youngsters that would -- the

        12       babies, would be the same for all of these

        13       babies born HIV-positive, yet perhaps as many as

        14       three out of four would not need these strong

        15       drugs because they are just -- it's just their

        16       mother's antibodies which they will be rid of by

        17       the time they're five months old.

        18                      I have a concern that the babies

        19       that do not need this will not be benefited and

        20       might be harmed by very strong drugs.  Do you

        21       have that concern also, Senator Velella?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Velella, would you yield to another











                                                             
10466

         1       question?

         2                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes, I yield,

         3       and my answer is that I would -- if this were to

         4       strike in my own family, I would rest on the

         5       basis of the fact that I would try to get the

         6       best medical treatment available for my child

         7       and I would have to rely on the doctors who told

         8       me what to do, very much like a person dying of

         9       cancer allows their doctor to introduce poison

        10       into their system through chemotherapy and try

        11       and save them in the long run.

        12                      I couldn't tell you, but I would

        13       have to rest on the best medical available

        14       information and the best course of treatment

        15       prescribed by the American Medical Society and

        16       the doctors who I would have faith in.  I'm not

        17       a doctor, but one thing I do know, if we don't

        18       know the kid has the disease and we don't know

        19       the mother has the disease, we can't do anything

        20       to help him.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        22       Senator Oppenheimer.

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  There is -











                                                             
10467

         1       I think the analogy that Senator Velella just

         2       used is not a valid one in that the cancer

         3       patient knows he has cancer.  The HIV-born baby

         4       may not have HIV, and so he may not be sick, but

         5       you are going to give him or her a very strong

         6       drug which may not be necessary at all because

         7       by age five months, that child will no longer be

         8       HIV.

         9                      I had another question, and it's

        10       not coming to me.  Give me one moment.  I can't

        11       think of what else I was going to ask you.

        12       You're lucky.

        13                      Thank you, Senator.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank

        15       you, Senator.

        16                      SENATOR WALDON:  Is there a list?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        18       Senator Waldon, there is a list.  You are number

        19       one.

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you.

        21                      Would Senator Velella yield to a

        22       question?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:











                                                             
10468

         1       Senator Velella, would you yield to a question

         2       from Senator Waldon?

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         4       if I could interrupt for a minute.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Skelos.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  There will be an

         8       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room

         9       332 of the Capitol.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  There

        11       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        12       Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol, an

        13       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room

        14       332.

        15                      Senator Velella, would you yield

        16       to a question from Senator Waldon?

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        20       Senator Waldon.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      The learned Senator from Bronx











                                                             
10469

         1       County, just a question or two if I may.  One,

         2       of the children born who are HIV-positive, is

         3       there any way to determine which of the children

         4       born will five months or whatever length of time

         5       down the road not contract this insidious

         6       disease permanently or at birth or while being

         7       carried in the mother's womb?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         9       Senator Velella.

        10                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, the

        11       test is for the antibody which shows the

        12       presence of the antibody that fights the disease

        13       which means that the mother has the full blown

        14       virus, the child may develop it.

        15                      To my knowledge, there is no way

        16       to sort out those young infants that test

        17       positive for the HIV antibody and which ones

        18       will develop the full blown AIDS and which ones

        19       will reject the antibody and develop normally

        20       and have no problem in life.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you.

        22                      Mr. President, if I may ask the

        23       Senator another question.











                                                             
10470

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         2       Senator Velella, would you continue to yield for

         3       another question from Senator Waldon?

         4                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Waldon.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, let's

         8       talk about adults for just a minute.

         9                      The mother who may not know that

        10       she has AIDS when tested, is the test only -- is

        11       the information received from the test, in your

        12       opinion, valid only in regard to the fetus or if

        13       this parent is still sexually active, can this

        14       information be used as a mechanism of alerting

        15       the parent to what may occur in terms of

        16       spreading the disease, et cetera?

        17                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Unfortunately,

        18       Senator, if I had my choice, it would be but,

        19       unfortunately, because of the problem of trying

        20       to get a bill passed in both houses, we cannot

        21       mandate like we do for syphilis or for other

        22       types of communicable diseases that other sexual

        23       partners be notified.











                                                             
10471

         1                      This bill is limited -- this bill

         2       is limited only to the person involved, the

         3       parent of the child.  It goes no further than

         4       that.  I would have it go further but it

         5       doesn't.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         7       Senator Waldon.

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

         9       if I may continue.

        10                      Senator, that wasn't the thrust

        11       of my question.

        12                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Oh, I'm sorry.

        13       I misunderstood.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  What I was

        15       trying to ask you and I probably misstated it,

        16       the fact that the woman who is positive is now

        17       made aware that she's positive, in your opinion,

        18       could this have any salutary effect in regard to

        19       if she was to remain sexually active, at least

        20       she knows that she is now a carrier.  Is that -

        21                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Assuming that

        22       the woman would be as you and I would like her

        23       to be a responsible adult individual, we would











                                                             
10472

         1       assume that she would use certain precautions so

         2       she would not transmit the disease to her

         3       partner in the future.  That's an assumption we

         4       would have to make.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Senator Waldon.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President, I

         8       thank you very much.  I thank you, Senator

         9       Velella.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first day of

        14       January.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        18       Paterson, for what purpose do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  We would like

        20       a slow roll call.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Are

        22       there five members who desire a slow roll call?

        23       I see five members standing.











                                                             
10473

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         2       Secretary will call the roll slowly.  Slow roll

         3       call for everyone who is back in their office.

         4       Let the record show that Senator Stafford is at

         5       his seat.  Commence the roll call.  Senator

         6       Stafford is here.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.  The sound of your voice is

         9       reassuring.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

        11                      (Negative indication.)

        12                      Senator Babbush.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Bruno.

        15                      (Affirmative indication.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Aye.

        17                      Senator Connor.

        18                      (Negative indication.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Nay.

        20                      Senator Cook.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        23                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.











                                                             
10474

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator DiCarlo.

         2                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       Dollinger.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         6       President, to explain my vote.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         8       Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President, I continue to applaud those who work

        11       at this difficult issue.

        12                      I voted against this bill last

        13       time because I was concerned about the need for

        14       mandatory counseling and I believe that this

        15       bill goes a long way to addressing the concerns

        16       that I expressed last time.

        17                      However, I do not believe it

        18       solves the problem.  It's not an agreed on bill,

        19       to my understanding.  It doesn't resolve the

        20       final bit of issues that need to be tucked away

        21       before we will have an enlightened policy to

        22       deal with the difficult issues of confidential

        23       ity, the difficult issues of the rights and the











                                                             
10475

         1       best interest of the child after birth.

         2                      So while I think this bill goes a

         3       ways to solving those problems and I applaud

         4       Senator Velella for his continuing hard work on

         5       this bill to try to get the right result, I

         6       don't quite think we're there yet and so,

         7       despite the fact that it goes part of the way,

         8       it doesn't go far enough for this Senator, and I

         9       will be voting in the negative.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        11       Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the

        12       negative.  The Clerk will resume the roll call

        13       slowly.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Farley.

        17                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Galiber,

        19       excused.

        20                      Senator Gold.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gonzalez.

        23                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Yes.











                                                             
10476

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Goodman.

         2                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  No.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

         4                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President,

         5       to explain my vote.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         7       Senator Hannon, to explain his vote.

         8                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President,

         9       this -- this bill represents an evenhanded, I

        10       think non-ideological approach to try to address

        11       all of the issues that were raised during the

        12       extensive discussions in the last two years.

        13       It's hard to see what else could be added.  The

        14       whole need for the precounseling, prenatal

        15       testing, the ability to identify those women

        16       with AIDS so that lives can be saved through the

        17       use of the AZT is a necessary thing and it's a

        18       hope that the spirit that this is offered will

        19       be met by the other house and the other side of

        20       the aisle, the people voting no.

        21                      I vote in favor.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        23       Senator Hannon will be recorded in the











                                                             
10477

         1       affirmative.  The Clerk will resume the roll

         2       call.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoblock.

         4                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann.

         6                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Aye.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Senator Johnson.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      Senator Jones.

        12                      SENATOR JONES:  Aye.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator Kuhl.

        16                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      Senator Larkin.

        20                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Aye.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

        22                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Aye.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leibell.











                                                             
10478

         1                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator Levy.

         5                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        11       Marcellino.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        14                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Markowitz.

        17                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maziarz.

        19                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        23       Montgomery.











                                                             
10479

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      Senator Nanula.

         3                      SENATOR NANULA:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nozzolio.

         5                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

         7                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Oppenheimer.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Explain my

        11       vote.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I do think

        15       that this bill has taken a giant step in the

        16       right direction in that we all, I think,

        17       universally applaud the mandatory counseling for

        18       pregnant women.

        19                      I'm concerned somewhat about the

        20       -- quite concerned about the exclusion of

        21       pregnant women from the public health standards

        22       that seem to exist for everything else, and it

        23       is a one-house bill and I will be awaiting the











                                                             
10480

         1       two-house bill, an agreed upon bill and for now

         2       I remain not satisfied.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Excuse

         4       me, Senator Oppenheimer.  Could we have some

         5       order in the chamber, please, so that Senator

         6       Oppenheimer could explain her vote?

         7                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm voting

         8       no because I'm unsatisfied.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Could

        10       we have some order, please?

        11                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I will be

        13       voting no because I'm not satisfied yet with

        14       this bill, but it is a step in the right

        15       direction.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        17       Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded in the

        18       negative.  The Clerk will resume the roll call.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.











                                                             
10481

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

         3                      SENATOR RATH:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Sears.

         9                      SENATOR SEARS:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Skelos.

        13                      (Affirmative indication.)

        14                      Senator Smith.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Solomon.

        17                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

        19                      SENATOR SPANO:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        21       Stachowski.

        22                      (There was no audible response.)

        23                      Senator Stafford.











                                                             
10482

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stavisky.

         3                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yes.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator Tully.

         7                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

         9                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Aye.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  To explain my

        14       vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Senator Waldon, to explain his vote.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        18       my colleagues, this thing -- this phenomenon

        19       that we face today is so invidious and so

        20       insidious that I believe that whatever methods

        21       we can use to disseminate information, to

        22       discover where it is and to do all that we can

        23       to help those that are afflicted we should do.











                                                             
10483

         1                      I have heard amongst my

         2       colleagues very valid and meaningful arguments,

         3       vis-a-vis rights to privacy.  While I believe

         4       that this disease which, if left unchecked, can

         5       wipe us all out, can change the face of this

         6       earth in terms of its population in every corner

         7       of this earth, is so much a danger -- of a

         8       danger to all of us, that what little steps we

         9       can take to diminish its negative impact, to

        10       distribute information, to educate and to alert

        11       those who are being touched by its

        12       insidiousness, we have a moral obligation to do

        13       and that moral obligation is higher and more

        14       important and stronger than other obligations.

        15       Therefore, I must support this legislation.

        16                      I vote yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        18       Senator Waldon will be recorded in the

        19       affirmative.

        20                      Continue the roll.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The











                                                             
10484

         1       Clerk will call the absentees.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.

         3                      SENATOR BABBUSH:  Yes.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Cook.

         5                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Espada.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Holland.

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Lack.

        15                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Senator Montgomery.

        19                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Seward.

        23                      (There was no response.)











                                                             
10485

         1                      Senator Smith.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Trunzo.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         6       Results.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44, nays 9.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      SENATOR LEVY:  Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        12       Senator Levy.

        13                      SENATOR LEVY:  Yes.  How was I

        14       recorded on this bill, Mr. President?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        16       Senator Levy was recorded in the affirmative.

        17                      SENATOR LEVY:  Thank you.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  You're

        19       welcome.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        22       I move we adopt the Resolution Calendar with the

        23       exception of Resolution 1685.











                                                             
10486

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  All in

         2       favor of adopting the calendar with the one

         3       exception signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The Resolution Calendar is

         8       adopted.

         9                      Senator Present.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        11       could you call up Resolution 1685 and recognize

        12       Senator DiCarlo.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        14       Clerk -- Senator DiCarlo.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      I ask that Resolution 1685 be

        18       read in its entirety.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        20       Clerk will read Resolution 1685 in its entirety,

        21       please.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senators

        23       DiCarlo, Bruno, Hoblock and Wright, Legislative











                                                             
10487

         1       Resolution commending U.S. Air Force Captain

         2       Scott O'Grady.

         3                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of this

         4       legislative body that those who give positive

         5       definition to the profile and disposition of our

         6       American Armed Forces do so profoundly

         7       strengthen our shared commitment to the exercise

         8       of freedom; and

         9                      WHEREAS, attendant to such

        10       concern and fully in accord with its long

        11       standing traditions, it is the intent of this

        12       legislative body to commend Air Force Captain

        13       Scott O'Grady upon being rescued from hostile

        14       territory after being shot down while flying a

        15       mission for the North Atlantic Treaty

        16       Organization; and

        17                      WHEREAS, the Brooklyn born

        18       fighter was flying an escort mission for

        19       N.A.T.O. on Friday, June 2nd, 1995 when his F-16

        20       was shot down by Bosnian Serbs with a

        21       surface-to-air missile.

        22                      Captain O'Grady survived in

        23       hostile territory for six days through the use











                                                             
10488

         1       of his military survival training by eating

         2       insects and drinking rainwater until he was

         3       rescued on Thursday, June 8th.

         4                      Captain O'Grady was located by

         5       U.S. radar early on the morning of June 8th and

         6       a contingent of 40 aircraft from the U.S.S.

         7       Kearsarge was dispatched from the Adriatic Sea

         8       with the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit on board

         9       two helicopters.

        10                      The Marine force flying on two

        11       CH-53 Super Stallion helicopters was escorted by

        12       four Harrier jump-jets and two Cobra helicopters

        13       in tight formation, along with F-16 and F-15

        14       fighters, in addition to a special operations

        15       team held in reserve over the Adriatic; and

        16                      WHEREAS, seeing a plume of yellow

        17       smoke, the Marines were able to find a clearing

        18       and pull Captain O'Grady out of dense forest

        19       behind the Bosnian Serb lines and return him to

        20       the U.S.S. Kearsarge without taking any

        21       casualties; now, therefore, be it

        22                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        23       body pause in its deliberations and commend U.S.











                                                             
10489

         1       Air Force Captain Scott O'Grady recognizing his

         2       ability and training while also recognizing the

         3       contributions of all the men and women of the

         4       United States Armed Forces who serve this

         5       country so valiantly and honorably to maintain

         6       our international commitments and the ideals of

         7       freedom which are our American heritage; and be

         8       it further

         9                      RESOLVED, that a copy of this

        10       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        11       to U.S. Air Force Captain Scott O'Grady.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        13       Senator DiCarlo.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      I rise in support of this

        17       resolution and I think it appropriate that we

        18       here in the New York State Senate recognize what

        19       Captain O'Grady did for his country, did in the

        20       cause of saving lives and obviously, to me, his

        21       great abilities come from the fact that he is a

        22       New York born individual and most especially

        23       because he is a Brooklyn born New Yorker, so I











                                                             
10490

         1       commend Captain O'Grady.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Thank

         3       you, Senator DiCarlo.  The question -

         4                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Also, Mr.

         5       President -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         7       Senator DiCarlo.

         8                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  I would also

         9       take this opportunity for any other members in

        10       the house who would wish to co-sponsor this

        11       resolution, I would like to open it up for the

        12       rest of the membership.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

        14       Senator Gold.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  That was my only

        16       question.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  Why

        18       don't we put every member of the house on the

        19       resolution and those who do not want to be on

        20       the resolution can notify the desk.

        21                      Senator Present.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        23       on behalf of Senator Bruno, he would like to











                                                             
10491

         1       offer that same option to members to co-sponsor

         2       Resolution 1650 which commemorates the 75th

         3       anniversary of the American Legion.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

         5       Everyone will also be placed on Resolution 1650

         6       as well unless they notify the desk otherwise.

         7                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         8       Maltese.

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        10       I would like to take the opportunity to open up

        11       Resolution 1672 commemorating the 150th

        12       anniversary of the New York Police Department.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  That

        14       was 1672, Senator?

        15                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

        18       Chair will also direct that everyone be placed

        19       on Resolution 1672 commemorating the 150th

        20       anniversary of the New York Police Department

        21       unless they so notify the desk.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10492

         1       can we return to reports of standing

         2       committees?  I believe there's a report of the

         3       Rules Committee at the desk.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:  The

         5       Secretary will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

         7       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         8       following bills:

         9                      Senate Print 2771, by Senator

        10       Waldon, an act to amend the Election Law, in

        11       relation to requiring notice;

        12                      3226, by Senator Dollinger, an

        13       act to authorize the town of Brighton, Monroe

        14       County to convert to a benefit derived method;

        15                      3256, by Senator Spano, an act to

        16       amend the Retirement and Social Security Law, in

        17       relation to peace officers;

        18                      3982, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        19       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        20       relation to authorizing a residential parking

        21       system;

        22                      4028, by Senator Velella, an act

        23       to amend the Public Authorities Law and the











                                                             
10493

         1       Public Health Law, in relation to establishment,

         2       financing and construction of a New York State

         3       veterans home;

         4                      4322-A, by Senator Skelos, an act

         5       to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         6       transaction involving services;

         7                      4416-A, by Senator Velella, an

         8       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

         9       continuing education;

        10                      4567, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

        11       act to authorize tier 1 status to John P.

        12       Cossifos;

        13                      4827-A, by Senator Maziarz, an

        14       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        15       relation to the financing and construction of

        16       certain facilities;

        17                      5267, by Senator Tully, an act to

        18       amend the Nassau County Civil Divisions Act, in

        19       relation to the qualifications of voters;

        20                      5290, by Senator Spano, an act to

        21       amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to

        22       a cooperative real property tax administration

        23       system;











                                                             
10494

         1                      5318, by Senator Bruno, an act to

         2       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation

         3       to authorizing the city of Troy to adopt a

         4       residential parking system;

         5                      5335-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act

         6       to amend the Administrative Code of the city of

         7       New York, in relation to providing for transfer

         8       of the assets;

         9                      5349, by Senator Larkin, an act

        10       to amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992,

        11       amending the General Municipal Law and others;

        12                      5376, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        13       to amend Chapter 754 of the Laws of 1985,

        14       relating to authorizing the county of Monroe;

        15                      5382, by Senator Larkin, an act

        16       in relation to the Real Property Tax Law levied

        17       for library purposes;

        18                      5389, by Senator Goodman, an act

        19       to authorize the conveyance of certain lands to

        20       the Brooklyn Academy of Music;

        21                      5391, by the Senate Committee on

        22       Rules, an act to authorize the Department of

        23       Social Services to contract for chronic care











                                                             
10495

         1       management demonstration program;

         2                      5394, by the Senate Committee on

         3       Rules, an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

         4       relation to utilization review agents;

         5                      5396-A, by Senator Skelos, an act

         6       in relation to authorizing service awards for

         7       the Lawrence-Cedarhurst Fire Department, Inc;

         8                      5403, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

         9       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to estab

        10       lishing the crime of aggravated harassment;

        11                      5404, by the Senate Committee on

        12       Rules, an act to amend the Public Authorities

        13       Law and the Education Law, in relation to

        14       providing for the financing and construction of

        15       capital facilities;

        16                      5418, by Senator Holland, an act

        17       to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to

        18       authorizing the Mid-Hudson Emergency Medical

        19       Service Council;

        20                      5421, by Senator Trunzo, an act

        21       to amend the Administrative Code of the city of

        22       New York, in relation to providing for transfer;

        23                      5427, by Senator Levy, an act to











                                                             
10496

         1       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation

         2       to escort vehicle driver requirements;

         3                      And 5447, by Senator Rath, an act

         4       to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         5       changing the name of the Office for Regulatory

         6       and Management Assistance;

         7                      All bills ordered directly for

         8       third reading.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Senator Present.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move we

        12       accept the Rules report.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  All

        14       in favor of accepting the Rules -- the report of

        15       the Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye".)

        17                      Those opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The report is accepted.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        22       let's take up the non-controversial on Senate

        23       Supplemental Calendar Number 2.











                                                             
10497

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         2       Secretary will read the non-controversial

         3       calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1389, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 2771, an

         6       act to amend the Election Law, in relation to

         7       requiring notice of certain civil penalties.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1401, by Senator Dollinger, Senate Print 3226,

        20       an act to authorize the town of Brighton, Monroe

        21       County to convert.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Call the roll.  I'm sorry.  Read the last











                                                             
10498

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1410, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3256, an

        12       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        13       Law, in relation to peace officers.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
10499

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1411, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3982, an

         3       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         4       relation to authorizing a residential parking

         5       system.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       There is a home rule -- there is a home rule

         8       message at the desk.  Read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Call the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1412, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4028, an

        19       act to amend the Public Authorities Law and the

        20       Public Health Law, in relation to establishment,

        21       financing and construction.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Read the last section.











                                                             
10500

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1413 -

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        12       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

        14       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

        15       Assembly Bill Number 6124-A and substitute it

        16       for the identical Calendar Number 1414.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        18       substitution is ordered.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1414, by Member of the Assembly Grannis,

        21       Assembly Print 6124-A, an act to amend the

        22       Insurance Law, in relation to continuing

        23       education.











                                                             
10501

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Call the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1415, by Senator Oppenheimer -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       There is no home rule message at the desk.  Lay

        15       the bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1416, by Senator Maziarz -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        19       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1417, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5267, an

        22       act to amend the Nassau County Civil Divisions

        23       Act, in relation to the qualifications of











                                                             
10502

         1       voters.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Call the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1418, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5290, an

        14       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        15       relation to a cooperative real property tax

        16       administration system.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Call the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10503

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1419, by Senator Bruno -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       There is a home rule message at the desk.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  -- Senate Print

         9       5318, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        10       Law, in relation to authorizing the city of Troy

        11       to adopt a residential parking system.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1420, by Senator Trunzo -











                                                             
10504

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Bill is high.  Lay it aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1421, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5349, an

         5       act to amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1422, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5376, an

        18       act to amend Chapter 754 of the Laws of 1985.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       There is a home rule message at the desk.  Read

        21       the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
10505

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1423, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5382, an

         9       act in relation to the real property tax levied

        10       for library purposes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Call the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1424, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5389, an

        23       act to authorize the conveyance of certain lands











                                                             
10506

         1       to the Brooklyn Academy of Music, Incorporated.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Call the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1425, by Senator -

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Lay it aside

        15       temporarily.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Lay

        17       the bill aside temporarily.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1426, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        20       Print 5394, an act to amend the Public Health

        21       Law, in relation to utilization review agents.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside,

        23       please.











                                                             
10507

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Lay

         2       it aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1427, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5396-A, an

         5       act -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  The bill is

         7       high.  Lay it aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1428, by Senator Nozzolio -

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1429, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        14       Print 5404 -

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Lay

        17       the bill aside, please.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1430, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 5418, an

        20       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

        21       to authorizing the Mid-Hudson Emergency Medical

        22       Service Council.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10508

         1       Read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1431 -

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        13       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1432, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5427, an act

        16       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        17       relation to escort vehicle driver requirements.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Senator Present.

        20                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Is there a

        21       message of necessity at the desk on this bill?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       There is a message of necessity at the desk,











                                                             
10509

         1       Senator.

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we

         3       accept the message.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  All

         5       in favor aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      Opposed, nay.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The message is accepted.

        10                      Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        12       act shall take effect on January 1.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Call the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1433, by Senator Rath -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        22       bill is high.  Lay it aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10510

         1       Senator Present -- Senator Gold.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Yes, Senator Gold.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  I understand that

         6       the bill is being laid aside as being high, but

         7       I would want to alert the Majority that -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Senator Gold, which bill are you referring to,

        10       the last one read?

        11                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, 1433.  I

        12       would like to alert the Majority that at first

        13       blush there seems to be a question as to the

        14       propriety of the legislation since it indicates

        15       it was introduced June 14th, which was yesterday

        16       at the request of the Governor and the rules

        17       that were promulgated by the Majority, I

        18       believe, would be violated by this piece of

        19       legislation and I know how serious Senator Bruno

        20       is about this -- God bless you -- about -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Excuse me, Senator Gold.  Excuse me one second.

        23       Please.  I'm sorry.











                                                             
10511

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  I just wanted to

         2       point that out, since we're not dealing with the

         3       bill, it may not be an issue, but if the bill

         4       does come up again, it might very well become an

         5       issue.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Senator Skelos, why do you rise?

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Just in a polite

        10       response, I believe there's one major differ

        11       ence.  We have a new administration that came

        12       into office in January, a new administration in

        13       place.  I believe Senator Dollinger has been in

        14       place for about two -- two years, six months and

        15       15 days, not that we're counting, Senator

        16       Dollinger, and I think we should have a little

        17       flexibility with the new administration,

        18       understanding that it's a first-time budget,

        19       first-time session, and we're just trying to

        20       cooperate with the new administration.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Senator Gold.











                                                             
10512

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Skelos

         2       said that he would be polite.  I was shocked to

         3       hear that.  I can't imagine him being anything

         4       but polite.  So let it be with Caesar.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         6       record will read that Senator Gold thinks that

         7       Senator Skelos is polite at all times.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

         9       don't know how Senator Dollinger gets into this.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  He

        11       gets into everything, Senator.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  That poor man has

        13       been exemplary today.  We went in at 10:00

        14       o'clock.  I have seen a cooperative,

        15       distinguished, bright, alert gentleman from

        16       Rochester and I don't know why he gets brought

        17       into this.  You always look for a target, I

        18       don't know why, but the bottom line is, Mr.

        19       President, I don't have with me any records on

        20       Mario Cuomo or any records on Hugh Carey or

        21       Malcolm Wilson or Nelson Rockefeller, but I

        22       think that program bills went in all along.  If

        23       George Pataki didn't do it, that's okay, I don't











                                                             
10513

         1       -- I think he's in the press every day taking

         2       credit for things which is fine anyway, but all

         3       I'm saying, Senator Skelos, is that you control

         4       the rules.  If you want to amend the rules, I'm

         5       not telling you I would oppose an intelligent

         6       amendment to the rules.  I'm not even saying,

         7       Senator Skelos, I would oppose a motion to

         8       suspend the rules if it was appropriate.

         9                      All I'm saying, Senator Skelos,

        10       is that if it turns out that you want to deal

        11       with this bill, it might very well be in

        12       violation of existing rules, and I know that

        13       that would give Senator Bruno a rash and I

        14       wouldn't want that to happen.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Senator Present, what's your pleasure?

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        18       can we return to the original calendar, 425.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        20       Secretary will read Calendar Number 425.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       425, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2113-B, an

        23       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation











                                                             
10514

         1       to authorizing the court to permit a petitioner.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Senator Present.

         4                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Is there a

         5       message of necessity at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Yes, Senator Present, there is a message of

         8       necessity at the desk.

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we

        10       accept the message.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  All

        12       those in favor of accepting the message of

        13       necessity vote aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye".)

        15                      Those opposed.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The message is accepted.

        18                      The Secretary will read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 12.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 90th day after it

        22       shall have become a law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10515

         1       Call the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      Senator Present.

         7                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         8       can we take up Calendar Number 607.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       607, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3918-A, an

        13       act to amend the Public Housing Law, in relation

        14       to creating the town of Patterson Housing

        15       Authority.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       is there a message of necessity at the desk on

        20       Calendar Number -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Yes, there is, Senator.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we











                                                             
10516

         1       accept the message.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Move to accept the message of necessity.  All

         4       those in favor say aye.

         5                      (Response of "Aye".)

         6                      Opposed, nay.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      The message is accepted.

         9                      Read the last section, please.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Leibell.

        19                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Abstain.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Senator Leibell abstains, without objection.

        22                      Senator Present.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10517

         1       can we take up Calendar Number 543.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         3       Secretary will read Calendar 543.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       543, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1465-B, an

         6       act in relation to the real property tax

         7       assessed by the town of Smithtown.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         9       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Yes, Senator Present, there is.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I move that we

        13       accept the message.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  All

        15       those in favor of accepting the message of

        16       necessity signify by saying aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye".)

        18                      Opposed, nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The message is accepted.

        21                      Read the last section, please.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
10518

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      Senator Present, we have some

         8       housekeeping at the desk.  Why don't we take

         9       that up.

        10                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Take up the

        11       housekeeping.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        13       Chair recognizes Senator DiCarlo.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        15       on behalf of Senator Levy, I wish to call up his

        16       bill, Print 4985-A, recalled from the Assembly

        17       which is now at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        19       Secretary will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       875, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4985-A, an

        22       act to amend the Transportation Law.

        23                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10519

         1       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         2       bill was passed.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         6       reconsideration.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

         9       I now offer the following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       amendments accepted.  The house will come to

        12       order.

        13                      Senator Present.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        15       can we take up Calendar Number 993.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        17       Secretary will -- the Clerk will read Calendar

        18       Number 993.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       993, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5009, an

        21       act to amend the Administrative Code of the city

        22       of New York, in relation to access to correct

        23       housing maintenance code violation.











                                                             
10520

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Read the last section.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Explanation has been asked for, Senator Leibell.

         6                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  This is the one

         7       we did the other day, Senator.  I would repeat

         8       the explanation I gave the other day.  We had

         9       gone through an extensive discussion on this

        10       issue.  To confer jurisdiction upon the housing

        11       part of the New York City Civil Court to

        12       entertain applications for landlords for orders

        13       requiring tenants to provide access to their

        14       apartments when such access is necessary to

        15       permit the owner to correct violations.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Paterson.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        19                      I just wanted to put on the

        20       record that we had discussed this bill the other

        21       day, Senator Leibell and myself, and due to the

        22       lateness of the session, I'm sure that there are

        23       bills we haven't gone through the first time so











                                                             
10521

         1       we don't need any summer reruns from myself and

         2       Senator Leibell, and so you can read the last

         3       section, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Read the last section, please.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Call the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Please indicate the vote when the votes are

        13       tabulated.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Senator Gold, to explain your vote, sir?

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  I don't

        18       want to slow this up any more than our

        19       distinguished Deputy Minority Leader, but I

        20       think for people who may be listening but not in

        21       the chamber, this is legislation which Senator

        22       Paterson and I think myself the other day

        23       pointed out does not really leave a level











                                                             
10522

         1       playing field, because while it does take into

         2       consideration -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Excuse me, Senator Gold.  Please, ladies and

         5       gentlemen, you can just about hear him up here.

         6                      Senator Gold.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  While it does take

         8       into consideration a problem on the landlord

         9       part of this equation, it does not really take

        10       into account the problems it will be causing for

        11       the tenant population.  It does not, for

        12       example, really require the landlord to do

        13       enough in advance before they take someone away

        14       from employment, et cetera, et cetera.  So for

        15       those people who may have had to leave the

        16       chamber for a short period of time and may be

        17       listening, this am the bill, that's the problem.

        18                      I vote in the negative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Gold will be recorded in the negative.

        21       State the results when you have them.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        23       the negative on Calendar Number 993 are Senators











                                                             
10523

         1       Abate, Babbush, Connor, Gold, Gonzalez,

         2       Markowitz, Montgomery, Padavan, Paterson,

         3       Solomon; also Senator Onorato; also Senator

         4       Oppenheimer; also Senator Goodman; also Senator

         5       Velella.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Senator DiCarlo.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Also, Senator

         9       DiCarlo.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Senator Spano.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  And Senator

        13       Spano.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Senator Maltese.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Also, Senator

        17       Maltese.  Ayes 42, nays 17.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      Senator Present.

        21                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Can we take up

        22       Calendar 1426.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10524

         1       Clerk will read Calendar 1426.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1426, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         4       5394, an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

         5       relation to regulating utilization review

         6       agencies.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Read the last section, please.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Explanation has been called for.  Senator Hannon

        12       will give it.  Senator Hannon.

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.  A couple of days ago we passed a

        15       bill that would apply the same type of

        16       utilization review standards just to health

        17       maintenance organizations.  Now, the point was

        18       made that these universal standards ought to

        19       apply across the board to entities or employers

        20       that provide all health care services including

        21       the preferred provider organizations, third

        22       party programs that provide health care

        23       services, insurers under Articles 32, 42 or 43











                                                             
10525

         1       of the Insurance Law, HMOs, and a couple of

         2       others, and then we have exclusions for things

         3       that might well be excluded that are contained

         4       in page 2 of the bill.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Senator Paterson.  Excuse me.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       this bill involves review of the utili...

        13       utilization review agents who are the ones who

        14       determine whether or not these claims are going

        15       to be paid out.  I know that you've had this

        16       bill on for a couple of years, Senator Hannon.

        17       Is there any chance that this is going to be

        18       negotiated?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Hannon, do you yield for a question?

        21                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, I do.

        22                      This -- in one major sense, this

        23       utilization review here is fundamentally











                                                             
10526

         1       different than the past approaches.  The past

         2       approaches were all home grown TAG regulation of

         3       the state and looking just to use the exist...

         4       the standards that would be imposed by the

         5       state, the Department of Health.

         6                      What this seeks to do is to use

         7       the national standards, URAC, it's a

         8       not-for-profit organization at the national

         9       level that has come up with utilization review

        10       and it really applies in a couple of different

        11       ways.  One is as providing a system for the

        12       customer to appeal in the event that procedures

        13       they feel ought to be granted are not granted.

        14                      Second, there would be a system

        15       for the physician to appeal in case something

        16       should be given to one of their patients that's

        17       not given.

        18                      Third, it is a way for people

        19       providing the care to take a uniform look at the

        20       types of care that's being given and it also

        21       goes beyond that, to provide for standards of

        22       confidentiality, standards of quality, so it's a

        23       much broader approach, and it's a whole -











                                                             
10527

         1       fundamentally, this would be a different bill

         2       than you've seen in the past.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Call the roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       This bill is passed.

        13                      Just to let everyone know we're

        14       awaiting some information.  Let the record

        15       reveal that this never occurred when Senator

        16       Kuhl was in the chair.

        17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

        18       may I inquire?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Goodman, why do you rise?

        21                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Have you taken

        22       measures to brace the handle on that gavel

        23       because I fear, even if you tap it gently, it











                                                             
10528

         1       will be under enormous strain.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Sir, this gavel is well reinforced.

         4                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Thank you,

         5       sir.  Mr. Chairman.

         6                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President,

         7       are we -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       We're in a brief pause.

        10                      Senator Stavisky will be

        11       recognized.  Will the chamber please come to

        12       order.

        13                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Without

        14       objection, may I be recorded in the negative on

        15       Calendar Number 993?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Stavisky will be recorded in the

        18       negative on Calendar -

        19                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  993.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       993.  Senator Waldon, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, without

        23       objection, if there is none, in the negative on











                                                             
10529

         1       Calendar 993.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Without objection, so ordered.

         4                      Senator Present?

         5                      Senator Trunzo.

         6                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

         7       1409, I understand there was a slow roll call.

         8       I was not in the chamber at the time.  Had I

         9       been there, I would have been recorded in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        12       record will reflect that had you been in the

        13       chamber at the time, you would have been

        14       recorded in the affirmative.

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Thank you.

        16                      SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Senator Present.

        19                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        20       can we take up Calendar 1429.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        22       clerk will read Calendar Number 1429.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10530

         1       that's on Senate Supplemental Calendar Number

         2       2.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1429, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         5       Print 5404, an act to amend the Public

         6       Authorities Law and the Education Law, in

         7       relation to providing for the financing and

         8       construction of capital facilities.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation,

        10       please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  An

        12       explanation has been asked for by the Minority

        13       Leader.

        14                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        15       this would allow school districts outside the

        16       city of New York to finance their school

        17       construction individually or collectively

        18       through the Dormitory Authority.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Paterson?  Senator Stachowski.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If the

        22       Senator would yield for a question, please.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10531

         1       Senator Present, do you yield to Senator

         2       Stachowski?

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes, sir.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Senator Stachowski, Senator Present yields.

         6                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Would the

         7       rehab and the reconstruction, for example, of

         8       Buffalo and the other cities other than the city

         9       of New York, where the schools are older and

        10       sort of in bad shape, would that all qualify for

        11       this funding also?

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes, they would

        13       be eligible.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If the

        15       Senator would continue to yield.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Present, do you continue to yield?

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  He

        20       continues to yield, sir.

        21                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  I would

        22       think that would be a rather high proposition

        23       and is there a ceiling on how much Dormitory











                                                             
10532

         1       Authority money we're going to be allowed to use

         2       for this particular program, or is there a

         3       problem with how much they make available or is

         4       the sky the limit, so to speak, on which schools

         5       can come in and get rehab'ed and -

         6                      SENATOR PRESENT:  They'll all be

         7       by bonding that the schools will be doing any

         8       way.  They'll bond through the Dormitory

         9       Authority, but there will be no limit on it, no

        10       cap.

        11                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Well, if the

        12       Senator would yield for one more question then.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Present, do you continue to yield?

        15                 SENATOR PRESENT:  I'll try.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       He'll try.

        18                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Tell me if

        19       I'm right or wrong on this.  The schools will

        20       decide what they want to fix.  They'll use

        21       Dormitory Authority bonding and then they will

        22       be paying it back, the school district will be

        23       paying it back; that's how it works?











                                                             
10533

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Exactly.

         2                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       if Senator Present would yield for just a couple

         7       of questions.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Senator Present, do you yield to Senator

        10       Paterson?

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Senator Present yields, sir.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, we're

        15       talking about the bonding for the rest of the

        16       state and Senator Stachowski was talking about

        17       the big four.  We recognize that New York City

        18       is not included because of the School

        19       Construction Authority, but the School

        20       Construction Authority doesn't allow for any

        21       bonding, and my question is does -- how would we

        22       allow New York City to receive the same bonding

        23       capability that the rest of the state has?











                                                             
10534

         1                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Senator

         2       Paterson, I'm told the city of New York is able

         3       to bundle, because of the large school district

         4       is able to bundle it and do their bonding

         5       collectively within the city.  This will allow

         6       those school districts outside the city to do

         7       similar through the Dormitory Authority.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  They don't -

         9       they don't bond.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Senator Present, do you continue to yield?  He

        12       yields, sir.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  They don't

        14       bond through the School Construction Authority?

        15       Can you explain to me how they bond

        16       collectively?

        17                      SENATOR PRESENT:  They bond

        18       through the City, the end -- the school district

        19       gets the advantage of the size of the city.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Oh, I

        21       understand now what you're saying.  Hold on a

        22       minute.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Sure.











                                                             
10535

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I -- Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  What concerns

         6       us -- on the bill.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Senator Paterson, on the bill.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Those same

        10       opportunities for bonding that the -- that the

        11       districts would have, even if this bill did not

        12       exist so, in other words, all would be included

        13       as in any other city, but what we're saying in

        14       this particular piece of legislation is that now

        15       they're going to be -- outside New York City

        16       they're going to be able to bond directly and

        17       they're going to be able to do it through this

        18        -- this type of financing, but New York City

        19       doesn't have it.

        20                      I have one last question if

        21       Senator Present -

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Senator Present, do you yield for one last











                                                             
10536

         1       question?

         2                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I don't think

         3       the last one was a question.  O.K.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  He

         5       yields.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  This question

         7       is the last question.  Does the adoption of this

         8       resolution in any way affect the Wicks Law?

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  This will give

        10       school districts the ability to participate in

        11       the same options as given to the city school

        12       districts of New York.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  O.K. Thank

        14       you, Senator.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 16.  This

        18       act shall take effect -

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       just to explain my vote.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                             
10537

         1       Senator Paterson to explain his vote.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'm getting

         3       the impression from that answer that Senator

         4       Present gave that these districts that -- in

         5       this fashion, they would actually be exempt from

         6       the Wicks Law, and I'm going to have to vote

         7       no.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Senator Paterson will be voting no.  Read the

        10       last section.

        11                      Senator Abate.

        12                      SENATOR ABATE:  To be recorded in

        13       the negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Senator Abate in the negative.  Senator Stavisky

        16       in the negative.  Give the vote when tabulated.

        17       Senator Paterson negative, Senator Connor

        18       negative.

        19                      Can we read the last section?

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 16.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the first day of July.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Call the roll.











                                                             
10538

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays 3,

         3       Senators Abate, Paterson and Stavisky recorded

         4       in the negative.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  I

         6       believe Senator Connor wanted to be recorded in

         7       the negative too on that.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

         9       Connor.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                      Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        14       can we take up the non-controversial calendar on

        15       Supplemental Active List of Thursday, June 15,

        16       1955.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        18       clerk will read the non-controversial calendar,

        19       the Supplemental Active List starting with

        20       Number 42.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       42, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 580A, an

        23       act to amend the Public Authorities Law and the











                                                             
10539

         1       Executive Law, in relation to creating the

         2       Cayuga County Water and Sewer Authority.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       There is a message.  I'm sorry.

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         6       I understand there is a message at the desk.  I

         7       move we accept it.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  You

         9       read my line, sir.  There is a message at the

        10       desk.  All in favor say aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye.")

        12                      Opposed nay.

        13                      (There was no response. )

        14                      The message is accepted.  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Call the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        23       bill is passed.











                                                             
10540

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       335, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3667A, an act

         3       to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in

         4       relation to agricultural commodities.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       492, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3808, an

        17       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        18       relation to empowering the Olympic Regional

        19       Development Authority.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 60th day.











                                                             
10541

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Call the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       581, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3755A, an

         9       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        10       relation to the use of head lamps and flashers.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Please read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the 1st day of January.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Call the roll, please.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       738, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3418, an

        23       act to amend the Town Law, in relation to











                                                             
10542

         1       providing for the election of a third town

         2       justice.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Will the clerk please read the title of Calendar

         5       Number 738 once again.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       738, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3418, an

         8       act to amend the Administrative Code of the city

         9       of New York in relation to the repayment of

        10       outstanding debts.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       There is a home rule message at the desk.

        13       Please read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the 180th day after it

        16       shall have become a law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       This bill is finally passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10543

         1       739, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3419, an

         2       act to amend the General City Law and others, in

         3       relation to authorizing the establishment of the

         4       New York City Tribunal.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       There is a home rule message at the desk.  Read

         7       the last section, please.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       744, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3842A, an

        18       act authorizing the city of New York to release

        19       its interest in certain real property acquired

        20       by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of

        21       Staten Island.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       There is a home rule message at the desk.











                                                             
10544

         1       Please read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Call the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       763, by Senator Leichter, Senate Print 2286B, an

        12       act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

        13       judicial proceedings held on certain religious

        14       holy days.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The











                                                             
10545

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1295, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 1059, an

         4       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

         5       its interest in certain real property acquired

         6       by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of

         7       Queens.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  We

         9       have a home rule message at the desk.  Please

        10       read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Call the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        18       calendar, if you're reading the supplemental

        19       list, Calendar Number 1319, S. 5352, passed

        20       previously, so we'll skip over that.

        21                      The bill is passed, the previous

        22       bill.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10546

         1       1338, by Senator Connor, Senate Print 5001, an

         2       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

         3       its interest in certain real property acquired

         4       by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of

         5       Brooklyn.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       There is a home rule message at the desk.

         8       Please read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Call the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      Senator Present, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

        19       we're going to have a little lapse of time.  Is

        20       there any housekeeping that can be handled at

        21       this time?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  We

        23       may have some in a moment, sir.  Hold on for a











                                                             
10547

         1       second.

         2                      Senator Trunzo.

         3                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

         4       can we please remove the star on Calendar Number

         5       600, Print Number 2920.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  So

         7       ordered.

         8                      Senator Montgomery, why do you

         9       rise?

        10                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.  I would like unanimous consent to be

        12       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1429.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  So

        14       ordered.  Thank you.  1429.

        15                      Senator Santiago, why do you

        16       rise?

        17                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Mr. President,

        18       I would like the record to show if I had been in

        19       the chamber when 1409 was called, I would have

        20       been recording in the negative.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        22       record will reflect, Senator, that if you had

        23       been in the chamber when the roll call was made,











                                                             
10548

         1       you would have been in the negative on 1409.

         2                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator.

         5                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Mr. President,

         6       I would also like to be in the negative on

         7       Calendar Number 993.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       993, Senator Santiago will be recorded in the

        10       negative.

        11                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Senator Seward.

        14                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes.  I would

        15       ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        16       negative on Calendar Number 581.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Senator Seward, without objection, will be

        19       recorded in the negative on Calendar 581.

        20                      SENATOR SEWARD:  And also, Mr.

        21       President, on Calendar Number 1409 which passed

        22       earlier today on a slow roll call, I was

        23       unavoidably out of the chamber, and I would ask











                                                             
10549

         1       that the record reflect that had I been in the

         2       chamber, I would have voted in the affirmative.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Seward, the record will reflect, had you

         5       been in the chamber when 1409 was called, you

         6       would have been voting in the affirmative.

         7                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Thank you.

         8                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Senator Farley, why do you rise?

        11                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'd like to be

        12       in the negative on 581.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Farley would like to be recorded in the

        15       negative on Calendar Number 581.

        16                      Senator Seward, the Chair

        17       recognizes you.

        18                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  I move, on behalf of Senator Levy, I

        20       move to amend Senate Number 4985B by striking

        21       out the amendments made on June 15th and

        22       restoring it to its previous Print Number

        23       4985A.











                                                             
10550

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Amendments received and accepted.

         3                      SENATOR SEWARD:  The Senate bill

         4       on its first passage was voted unanimously.  I

         5       now move that the amended bill have its third

         6       reading at this time.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       875, by Senator Levy, Senate Print Number 4985A,

        11       an act to amend the Transportation Law, in

        12       relation to the investigation of accidents.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Read the last section, please.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President.











                                                             
10551

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Senator Present.

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Mr. President,

         4       I think it will be a few moments before we have

         5       any action here, so we'll stand at ease.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Senate will stand at ease for a few moments.

         8                      (Whereupon at 6:46 p.m., the

         9       Senate stood at ease until 7:12 p.m.)

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

        11       house will come to order.  Senator Kuhl.

        12                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Mr.

        13       President.  If we could return to the first

        14       calendar of the day, Calendar Number 66, and you

        15       could ask the Secretary to call up Calendar

        16       Number 957.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        18       Secretary return to the original calendar and

        19       call Calendar Number 957.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       957, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4951B,

        22       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        23       relation to child day care.











                                                             
10552

         1                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President, is

         2       there a message of necessity at the desk?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Yes,

         4       there is a message of necessity at the desk.

         5                      SENATOR KUHL:  I'd move we accept

         6       the message of necessity.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         8       Without objection, the message will be

         9       accepted.  All those in favor?

        10                      (Response of "Aye.")

        11                      Opposed?

        12                      (There was no response. )

        13                      The message is accepted.

        14                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        15       rise?

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I rise in

        17       support of voices screaming all over the chamber

        18       for an explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        20       Explanation has been asked for, Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.











                                                             
10553

         1                      This bill amends subdivision (1)

         2       of Section 390 of the Social Services Law to add

         3       some language requiring one care giver for every

         4       two children under two years of age in a group

         5       family day care situation.  It amends Section 12

         6       of 390 and adds family day care to the exemption

         7       of single-family homes used for day care from

         8       zoning review.  It also amends Section 390 (a)

         9       to correct a misspelled word and adds a

        10       statement with regard to the subsequent courses

        11       to be taken after family day care providers

        12       receive their initial training.  It also amends

        13       Section 424 (a) to allow persons screened as

        14       substitutes to serve as substitutes for

        15       registered day care providers as well as

        16       licensed child care centers.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        18       Senator Stachowski, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  If Senator

        20       Marcellino would yield to a couple questions.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        22       Senator Marcellino, would you yield?

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, I will,











                                                             
10554

         1       sir.

         2                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Senator,

         3       when your bill came out, some of the family day

         4       care center providers in my district wrote me a

         5       letter complaining about -- and I don't know if

         6       this is true; I'm going to ask you -- complain

         7       ing about one of the things your bill did was

         8       let you take a facility that was in the home and

         9       have that family day care center locate in an

        10       another facility, like another building and they

        11       thought all that was doing was circumventing day

        12       care regulations where, if it's not going to be

        13       in a home setting and going to be in a different

        14       facility, then it should be covered by day care

        15       center provisions rather than home day care

        16       center provisions.

        17                      I don't know if your bill does

        18       that or not.  That's what my people told me it

        19       does, and so I'm asking you, does it do that or

        20       not?

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Senator,

        22       you're partially correct.  The initial writing

        23       of the bill did do that.  We received the same











                                                             
10555

         1       letters that you received apparently and we have

         2       made the corrections and adjustments to this

         3       bill, it's my understanding, so that it now has

         4       to be in the home of the provider.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you

         6       very much.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  And it's

         8       also my understanding that the people who were

         9       in objection, although we do not have memos from

        10       them yet, no longer object.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        12       Senator Stavisky.

        13                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  No, I'm

        14       sorry.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Read

        16       the last section.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Wait a minute, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      Mr. President, would the Senator

        20       yield to a question?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        22       Senator Gold.  Senator Marcellino, do you yield?

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  No.











                                                             
10556

         1       Senator, with trepidation I yield.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.  Did you say

         3       part of what this does was correct some spelling

         4       errors?

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  No, there

         6       was a word misspelled.  It corrects it.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Was this

         8       originally a Nozzolio bill?  No, I'm only

         9       kidding.

        10                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  I rise to a

        11       point of high personal privilege.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Read

        13       the last section.  Oh, Senator Oppenheimer.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm trying

        15       to figure out what is the change here as,

        16       Senator Marcellino, it says permits the use of a

        17       single-family dwelling for family day care

        18       programs.  Isn't that what we've always had?

        19       Isn't it always what we've had, family

        20       residential, single -

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I'm sorry,

        22       Senator, but I -- I'm sorry.  I can not hear

        23       you.











                                                             
10557

         1                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: S-s-sh!

         2       S-s-sh! S-s-sh!

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Can we

         4       have a little order in the chamber, please.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm unclear

         6       as to what the changes are from the present

         7       law.  This permits the use of a single-family

         8       dwelling for day care programs.  Isn't that what

         9       currently exists, single-family homes?

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  This -- the

        11       original bill, I think we went back to what was

        12       the case because the original bill allowed them

        13       to go to other dwellings, other situations than

        14       the home of the provider, and -

        15                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Other than

        16       the home of the provider.

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  We went back

        18       to the original situation with this bill and

        19       further changes thereafter.

        20                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Can you

        21       tell me what prompted the decision to change

        22       from other than the provider's home?

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Frankly, no,











                                                             
10558

         1       Senator, I really don't know.  I believe,

         2       Senator, they were trying to clean up some

         3       language, some technical language in this

         4       thing.  They also tried to get around some

         5       zoning, local zoning issues so that they

         6       couldn't zone them out of existence locally

         7       because of some problem with group home

         8       situations, and this bill clearly defines the

         9       difference between a group home and a family day

        10       care by limiting to a maximum of six the number

        11       of toddlers and infants that can be in the

        12       family situation with one provider, care

        13       provider, for every two infants, whereas the

        14       group home, as you well know, goes up to ten.

        15                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Except that

        16       under family day care you can have double that

        17       number, you can have 12 little children with two

        18       providers; that is in the law presently.  I'm

        19       questioning residential setting.  Isn't a

        20       residential setting a singly -- single-family

        21       dwelling?

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Could be.

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  O.K. Well,











                                                             
10559

         1       it looks like a good bill.  I was just curious

         2       about some of the language.  I think part of the

         3       problem is that too many of our communities have

         4       zoned out family day care.  They say it's a

         5       business in a residential setting and so, if

         6       this clarifies the law, this is a very

         7       beneficial bill.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you

         9       for your comments, Senator.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Read

        11       the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      Senator Kuhl.

        21                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President.  If we could now go to the

        23       Supplemental 2 Calendar and if we could have the











                                                             
10560

         1       Secretary call up Calendar Number 1427.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

         3       Supplemental 2 Calendar, Secretary will read

         4       Calendar Number 1427.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1427, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5396A, an

         7       act in relation to authorizing service awards

         8       for the Lawrence-Cedarhurst Fire Department,

         9       Inc.

        10                      SENATOR KUHL:  Mr. President, is

        11       there a message of necessity at the desk?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:

        13       There's a message of necessity at the desk.

        14                      SENATOR KUHL:  I move we accept

        15       the message of necessity.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  All

        17       those in favor, signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed?

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The message is accepted.  Read

        22       the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3 -











                                                             
10561

         1       Section 7.  This act shall take effect

         2       immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Kuhl.

        10                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes.  Can we now

        11       stand at ease for a few moments, please.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:  Stand

        13       at ease for a few moments.

        14                      (Whereupon at 7:17 p.m., the

        15       Senate stood at ease, reconvening at 7:34

        16       p.m.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        18       will come to order.

        19                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        20       Hoblock.

        21                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        22       can we go to the original calendar and call up

        23       Calendar 271, Senate Bill 3292A, by Senator











                                                             
10562

         1       LaValle.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the title of the Calendar Number 271

         4       off of the original calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

         6       Calendar Number 271, by Senator LaValle, Senate

         7       Print Number 3292A, an act to amend the

         8       Education Law, in relation to procedures for

         9       standardized testing.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        13       act shall take effect September 1st.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      Senator Hoblock.

        21                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        22       would you please call up Calendar Number 849,

        23       Senate Bill 1610A, by Senator Goodman.











                                                             
10563

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will read the title.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       849, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1610A, an

         5       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         6       relation to the civil liability of vehicle

         7       owners.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Hoblock.

        10                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        11       is there a message at the desk?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary informs me that there is.

        14                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  I move that we

        15       accept the message.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        17       to accept the message of necessity at the desk.

        18       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      The message is accepted.

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
10564

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         7       the results when tabulated.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays 1,

         9       Senator Padavan recorded in the negative.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Chair recognizes Senator Wright.

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President, I

        14       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        15       negative on Calendar 581, Senate 3755A.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        17       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Wright

        18       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        19       Number 581.

        20                      Senator Hoblock.

        21                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        22       I ask unanimous consent that had I been in the

        23       chamber yesterday in a slow roll call on











                                                             
10565

         1       Calendar Number 91, Senate Bill Number 973, that

         2       I would have voted in the affirmative.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Hoblock, the record will reflect that had you

         5       been in the chamber yesterday when the roll call

         6       was called on Calendar Number 91, that you would

         7       have voted in the affirmative.

         8                      Senator Hoblock.

         9                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

        10       would you please call up Calendar 1048, Senate

        11       181, by Senator Tully.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the title to Calendar Number 1048.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1048, by Senator Tully, Senate Print Number 181,

        16       an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        17       relation to providing coverage for injuries.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        19       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        20       read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        22       act shall take effect January 1st.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
10566

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      Senator Hoblock.

         7                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Mr. President,

         8       can we stand at ease for a few moments, please.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senate will stand at ease.

        11                      (Whereupon at 7:37 p.m., the

        12       Senate stood at ease until 7:42 p.m.)

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Farley, why do you rise?

        16                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'd like to be

        17       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 271.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Farley

        20       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        21       Number 271.

        22                      ...At 7:48 p.m....

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate











                                                             
10567

         1       will come to order.

         2                      The Chair will recognize Senator

         3       Nozzolio.

         4                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      Earlier today I laid aside my

         7       bill, Calendar Number 1365, Bill Number S.

         8       4252.  I wish to withdraw the lay aside and call

         9       the matter.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the title of Calendar Number 1365

        12       which is on the original calendar of the day.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1365, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate print 4252, an

        15       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,

        16       in relation to regulating the hours of sale by a

        17       winery.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       if you would recognize Senator Solomon.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10568

         1       Solomon.

         2                      SENATOR SOLOMON:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      I'm not going to ask the sponsor

         5       any questions on this.  We've been trying to

         6       work out a resolution of the problems that face

         7       parts of my Senate district and other parts of

         8       the state, and I know the sponsor of this bill,

         9       along with some other members of the Majority,

        10       are committed to trying to resolve those

        11       problems and indeed get my piece of legislation

        12       out on the floor of this house.

        13                      I am going to vote in the

        14       negative.  I'm going to vote against this bill

        15       because again, in terms of fairness to a lot of

        16       the people in my Senate District who have

        17       written to me, petitions have been collected

        18       where they have had problems on a regular basis

        19       and not on being closed on Saturday and being

        20       closed on Sunday and in other instances because

        21       Jewish holidays fall on certain other days, they

        22       could be closed Saturday, Sunday, and Monday,

        23       and Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday in many











                                                             
10569

         1       instances or Thursday, Friday, Saturday and

         2       Sunday, and we basically have a problem of

         3       fairness and where this wine will in fact now be

         4       sold in certain parts of the city of New York on

         5       Sundays.

         6                      Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.  Excuse me, Senator

         9       Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        11       I just have one statement on the bill, and it is

        12       that I think that this piece of legislation

        13       really in many respects diminishes the meaning

        14       of having the types of laws that we have about

        15       the distribution of alcohol on Sunday.  I think

        16       there's a special circumstance -

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Paterson, apparently we're having a little camp

        19       fire over here in the south part of the

        20       chamber.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Scoutmaster

        22       Gold.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Scout











                                                             
10570

         1       master Gold, if you could help your scouts to

         2       find their way to their chairs, I'm sure your

         3       colleague, Senator Paterson, would be most

         4       appreciative if they would pay their attention

         5       to him.

         6                      O.K. We have lots of business

         7       still to do in a fairly short time, so let's see

         8       if we can conclude it.

         9                      Senator Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        11       that demonstration is exactly my point.  This

        12       mirth and frivolity that obviously we're trying

        13       to prevent on Sundays, we made an exception in

        14       the cases where the wineries, for purposes of

        15       commercial development and for purposes also of

        16       tourism, can sell their product but once we

        17       start allowing them at state fairs or different

        18       types of events such and the like, we're going

        19       to start getting complaints from parts of the

        20       state that don't have them.  There will be some

        21       similar kind of contingent plan that they will

        22       have, and then we're really just going to

        23       subjugate the message of not distributing











                                                             
10571

         1       alcohol on Sunday.

         2                      Now, I suggest that there are two

         3       ways to solve that problem.  One is to allow it

         4       and the other would be not to allow it.  Right

         5       now the law is that we don't allow it and with

         6       the exceptions that we have, that actually exist

         7       probably, when we open the door to establish the

         8       exceptions, some Senator got up at that time and

         9       said, you see, If we do this then they're going

        10       to start having them at state fairs.

        11                      I think that wine distributors

        12       who are outside of New York State are actually

        13       penalized and aren't really allowed to be in the

        14       fair competition really based on the statute

        15       that restricts the sale on Sundays, while we're

        16       allowing New York State companies that opportun

        17       ity based only on the fact that they are from

        18       New York State and the type of, I would say

        19       religious tenet that's impinging upon the

        20       statute really, I think, in many respects,

        21       should focus us on not really trying to in any

        22       way diminish the meaning of it.

        23                      If we're not going to have it, we











                                                             
10572

         1       have certainly rolled back a lot of our "blue

         2       laws" about Sunday in other areas.  Maybe we

         3       need to do this with alcohol distribution.  If

         4       that's the case, then let's do it, but while we

         5       are continuing to have it, then I think that the

         6       effects must be equal, and I'm going to have to

         7       vote no as well.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         9       recognizes Senator Padavan.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I want to

        11       record my vote.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        20       the results when tabulated.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        22       the negative on Calendar Number 1365 are

        23       Senators Connor, DiCarlo, Gold, Holland, Jones,











                                                             
10573

         1       LaValle, Levy, Marcellino, Onorato, Padavan,

         2       Paterson, Skelos, Solomon, Stavisky, Waldon, and

         3       Senator Hoblock; also Senator Tully.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Results.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Also Senator

         6       Farley.  Ayes 41, nays 18.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      Chair recognizes Senator Skelos.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        11       could I have unanimous consent to be recorded in

        12       the negative on Calendar Number 849, Senate

        13       1610A.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Skelos

        16       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        17       Number 849.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Gold, why do you rise?

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Would

        22       Senator Libous yield to a question?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10574

         1       Libous yields.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, are you

         3       lost?

         4                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  I'm a great

         5       believer in flexibility in life.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         7       recognizes Senator Tully.

         8                      SENATOR TULLY:  Yes, Mr.

         9       President.  May I have unanimous consent to be

        10       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 849,

        11       Senate 1610A.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Tully

        14       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        15       Number 849.

        16                      Chair recognizes Senator

        17       Stachowski.

        18                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        19       President, can I have unanimous consent to be

        20       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 849.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        23       Stachowski will be recorded in the negative on











                                                             
10575

         1       Calendar Number 849.

         2                      Senator Velella.

         3                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

         4       I was out of the chamber when Senate Bill 849,

         5       Senate Bill 1610A, was called.  I was recorded

         6       in the affirmative.  I'd like to be recorded in

         7       the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         9       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Velella

        10       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        11       849.

        12                      Senator Maziarz.

        13                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

        14       I apologize, I was out of the chamber.  Could I

        15       be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

        16       1365, please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        18       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maziarz

        19       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        20       Number 1365.

        21                      Senator Maltese.

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        23       without objection, may I be recorded in the











                                                             
10576

         1       negative on Calendar Number 1365.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maltese

         4       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         5       Number 1365.

         6                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         7       Montgomery.

         8                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  I would like to be recorded in

        10       the negative on Calendar Number 1365.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        12       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        13       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        14       Calendar Number 1365.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Will the

        17       Senate come to order, please.  Chair recognizes

        18       Senator Bruno.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  We have an

        20       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room

        21       332.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        23       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules











                                                             
10577

         1       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room

         2       332.  Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee

         3       in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Bruno.

         8                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I might note that

         9       the purpose of this meeting will be to get the

        10       last calendar to the floor.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For those

        12       of you who did not hear because of the noise in

        13       the chamber, the intended purpose of the Rules

        14       Committee is to create the last calendar of the

        15       day and of the session.

        16                      ...At 9:00 p.m....

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Senate will come to order.  Members please find

        19       their chairs, staffs please find a place.

        20                      If you have any conversations to

        21       be had, please take them out of the chamber.

        22                      Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10578

         1       can we return to the reports of standing

         2       committees, and I believe there's a report from

         3       the Rules Committee, and ask that it now be

         4       read.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         6       return to the reports of standing committees.

         7       There is a report of the Rules Committee at the

         8       desk.  I'll ask the Secretary to read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

        10       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        11       following bills:

        12                      Senate Print 180B, by Senator

        13       Tully, an act to amend the General Municipal

        14       Law, in relation to service award programs;

        15                      598A, by Senator Holland, an act

        16       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        17       to a proceeding;

        18                      1020, by Senator Johnson, an act

        19       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in

        20       relation to the acceptance of used oil;

        21                      1242, by Senator Onorato, an act

        22       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to making

        23       possession of a lockable folding knife the crime











                                                             
10579

         1       of criminal possession;

         2                      1617A, by Senator Goodman, an act

         3       to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, in

         4       relation to authorizing the award of grants;

         5                      2132, by Senator Johnson, an act

         6       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in

         7       relation to stewardship agreements;

         8                      2149B, by Senator Spano, an act

         9       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in

        10       relation to authorizing certain wildlife rehab

        11       ilitators;

        12                      2542B, by Senator Hannon, an act

        13       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation

        14       to prompt payment;

        15                      2880A, by Senator Lack, an act to

        16       amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to juror

        17       compensation;

        18                      2981A, by Senator Velella, an act

        19       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

        20       to advertising the square footage;

        21                      3182A, by Senator Wright, an act

        22       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in

        23       relation to special beaver management areas;











                                                             
10580

         1                      3320, by Senator Maltese, an act

         2       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to false

         3       reporting of incidents;

         4                      3335, by Senator Velella, an act

         5       to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to

         6       rights of tenants organizations;

         7                      3396A, by Senator Velella, an act

         8       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         9       relation to the adjudication of parking

        10       infractions;

        11                      3440B, by Senator Velella, an act

        12       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        13       relation to reports required upon accident;

        14                      3450A, by Senator Skelos, an act

        15       to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in

        16       relation to the method of commencing an action;

        17                      4315A, by Senator Hannon, an act

        18       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

        19       to the powers and duties of the Power Authority

        20       of the state of New York;

        21                      4395A, by Senator Seward, an act

        22       to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

        23       designating a portion of the state highway











                                                             
10581

         1       system;

         2                      4651, by Senator Waldon, an act

         3       authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its

         4       interest in certain real property;

         5                      4679A, by Senator Lack, an act to

         6       amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act, in

         7       relation to when service of process upon an

         8       infant is completed;

         9                      5317, by Senator Bruno, an act in

        10       relation to authorizing the city of Troy, county

        11       of Rensselaer, to establish and operate a

        12       municipal ambulance service;

        13                      5325, by Senator Cook, an act to

        14       amend the Insurance Law, in relation to delaying

        15       community rating;

        16                      5350, by Senator Sears, an act

        17       making certain findings and determinations with

        18       respect to the establishment and consolidation

        19       of various water districts;

        20                      5398, by Senator Goodman, an act

        21       to amend the General Business Law, in relation

        22       to delinquent accounts;

        23                      5405, by Senator Kuhl, an act to











                                                             
10582

         1       amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in

         2       relation to a certain exemption from provisions

         3       relating;

         4                      5415, by the Senate Committee on

         5       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law, the General

         6       City Law and the Administrative Code of the city

         7       of New York, in relation to the imposition of

         8       certain taxes;

         9                      5416, by the Senate Committee on

        10       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law and Chapter

        11       272 of the Laws of 1991, amending the Tax Law;

        12                      5417, by the Senate Committee on

        13       Rules, an act to amend the Local Finance Law, in

        14       relation to the sale of bonds and notes;

        15                      916A, by Senator Goodman, an act

        16       authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its

        17       interest in certain real property;

        18                      1349, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

        19       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        20       information on persons applying to be an

        21       auxiliary police officer;

        22                      1381, by Senator Johnson, an act

        23       to amend the Uniform District Court Act and the











                                                             
10583

         1       Uniform City Court Act, in relation to

         2       authorizing such courts;

         3                      1461A, by Senator Goodman, an act

         4       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         5       relation to unlicensed and fraudulent operators;

         6                      5305, by Senator Velella, an act

         7       in relation to authorizing the public sale of

         8       taxicab licenses in the city of New York;

         9                      5369, by Senator Stafford, an act

        10       to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in

        11       relation to licenses to sell beer and wine;

        12                      5400, by Senator Padavan, an act

        13       to amend the Administrative Code of the city of

        14       New York, in relation to amortization of the

        15       balance sheet liability;

        16                      5409A, by Senator Spano, an act

        17       to amend Chapter 12 of the Laws of 1995,

        18       relating to providing a retirement incentive;

        19                      5411, by Senator Goodman, an act

        20       to amend the Administrative Code of the city of

        21       New York, in relation to the rate of regular

        22       interest;

        23                      5472, by Senator Hoblock, an act











                                                             
10584

         1       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

         2       to enabling the Dormitory Authority;

         3                      5478, by the Senate Committee on

         4       Rules, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         5       Law, in relation to the board of trustees of the

         6       Long Island Power Authority.

         7                      All bills ordered directly for

         8       third reading.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Bruno.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, I

        12       move that we accept the report of the Rules

        13       Committee.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        15       to accept the report of the Rules Committee.

        16       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      The Rules report is adopted.

        21                      Senator Saland, did you want to

        22       cast a vote?

        23                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
10585

         1       President.  I would request unanimous consent to

         2        -- on Calendar Number 849, to be recorded in

         3       the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         5       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Saland

         6       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         7       Number 849.

         8                      Senator Bruno.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, I

        10       ask at this time that we take up the

        11       non-controversial part of Calendar Number 3.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the Supplemental Calendar Number 3,

        14       non-controversial.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1434, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 180B, an

        17       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        18       relation to service award programs for volunteer

        19       firefighters.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, is

        23       there a message of necessity at the desk?











                                                             
10586

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         2       a message of necessity at the desk, Senator

         3       Bruno.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I move that we

         5       accept the message.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       motion is to accept the message of necessity.

         8       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The message is accepted.

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1435, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 598A.











                                                             
10587

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1436, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print Number

         6       1020, an act to amend the Environmental

         7       Conservation Law, in relation to the acceptance

         8       of used oil by service establishments.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1437, by Senator Onorato.

        21                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Lay aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside.











                                                             
10588

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1438, by Senator Goodman Senate Print Number

         3       1617A, an act to amend the Arts and Cultural

         4       Affairs Law, in relation to authorizing the

         5       award of grants for records management

         6       improvement.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         8       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         9       will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar -

        19       Senator Johnson moves to discharge from the

        20       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 3208

        21       and substitute it for the identical Calendar

        22       Number 1439.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:











                                                             
10589

         1       Substitution is ordered.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1439, by member of the Assembly Englebright,

         4       Assembly Print 3208, an act to amend the

         5       Environmental Conservation Law, in relation to

         6       stewardship agreements.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1440, by Senator Spano.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is high.  It will be laid aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1441, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2542B, an

        23       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in











                                                             
10590

         1       relation to prompt payment by public owners.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside -- no,

         3       last section.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1442, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2880A, an

        16       act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

        17       juror compensation, and to repeal certain

        18       provisions of such law relating thereto.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        22       act shall take effect February 15th.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
10591

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

         7       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

         8       Assembly Bill Number 1170A and substitute it for

         9       the identical Calendar Number 1443.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, substitution is ordered.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1443, by member of the Assembly Dinowitz,

        14       Assembly Print 1170A, an act to amend the

        15       General Business Law, in relation to -

        16                      VOICE:  Lay aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1444, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3182A.

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside,

        22       please.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the











                                                             
10592

         1       bill aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1445, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3320, an

         4       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to false

         5       reporting of incidents.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the first day of

        10       November.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

        18       moves to discharge from the Committee on

        19       Judiciary, Assembly Bill Number 1502 and

        20       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

        21       1446.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, substitution is ordered.











                                                             
10593

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1446, by member of the Assembly Dinowitz,

         3       Assembly Print 1502, an act to amend the Real

         4       Property Law, in relation to the right of

         5       tenants organizations to meet in community

         6       rooms.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        15       the results when tabulated.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays

        17       one, Senator Leibell recorded in the negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1447, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number

        22       3396A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        23       Law, in relation to the adjudication of parking











                                                             
10594

         1       infractions.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect 60 days after it shall

         6       have become law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1448, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number

        15       3440B, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        16       Law, in relation to reports required upon

        17       accidents.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the first day of

        20       January.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
10595

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  1449, by Senator

         5       Skelos.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bill is

         7       high.  Lay the bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1450, by Senator Hannon.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        11       bill aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1451, by Senator Seward, Senate Print Number

        14       4395A, an act to amend the Highway Law, in

        15       relation to designating a portion of the state

        16       highway system.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
10596

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1452, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 4651, an

         6       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

         7       its interest in certain real property required

         8       by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of

         9       Queens.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        11       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        12       read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack

        22       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

        23       Assembly Bill Number 7861, and substitute it for











                                                             
10597

         1       the identical Calendar Number 1453.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, the substitution is ordered.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1453, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Print 7861, an act to amend the

         7       Surrogate's Court Procedure Act, in relation to

         8       when service of process upon an infant is

         9       complete.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1454, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5317, an

        22       act in relation to authorizing the city of Troy,

        23       county of Rensselaer, to establish and operate a











                                                             
10598

         1       municipal ambulance service.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1455, by Senator Cook, Sen...

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1456, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 5350, an

        19       act making certain findings and determinations

        20       with respect to the establishment and

        21       consolidation of various water districts.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        23       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will











                                                             
10599

         1       read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1457, by Senator Goodman.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is high.  Lay the bill aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  1458, by Senator

        15       Kuhl, Senate Print 5405, an act to amend the

        16       Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in relation to

        17       certain exemption from provisions relating to

        18       the unlawful interests of a manufacturer.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
10600

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1459, by the Senate Committee on Rules.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1460, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        13       Print 5416, an act to amend the Tax Law and

        14       Chapter 272 of the Laws of 1991 amending the Tax

        15       Law.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 31.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.











                                                             
10601

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1461, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         5       Print 5417, an act -

         6                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1462, by Senator Goodman.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bill is

        12       high.  Lay the bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1463, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 1349,

        15       an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

        16       to information on persons applying to be an

        17       auxiliary police officer.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
10602

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson

         6       moves to discharge from the Committee on

         7       Judiciary, Assembly Bill Number 2054 and

         8       substitute it for the identical Calendar Number

         9       1464.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, substitution is ordered.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1464, by member of the Assembly Sweeney,

        14       Assembly Print 2054, an act to amend the Uniform

        15       District Court Act and the Uniform City Court

        16       Act, in relation to authorizing such courts.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the first day of

        21       October.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.











                                                             
10603

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1465, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1461A, an

         7       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         8       relation to unlicensed and fraudulent

         9       operators.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1466, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5305, an

        22       act in relation to authorizing the public sale

        23       of taxicab licenses in the city of New York.











                                                             
10604

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

         2       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         3       read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1467, by Senator Stafford.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1468, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5400, an

        19       act to amend the Administrative Code of the city

        20       of New York, in relation to amortization of the

        21       balance sheet liability.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        23       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will











                                                             
10605

         1       read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1469, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5409A, an

        12       act to amend Chapter 12 of the Laws of 1995,

        13       relating to providing a retirement incentive.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Bruno.

        16                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        17       message, Mr. President?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        19       a message at the desk.

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move we accept

        21       the message.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        23       to accept the message of necessity.  All those











                                                             
10606

         1       in favor, signify by saying aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Opposed nay.

         4                      Message is accepted.  There's a

         5       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         6       read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1470, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5411, an

        17       act to amend the Administrative Code of the city

        18       of New York, in relation to the rate of regular

        19       interest.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        21       home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        22       read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This











                                                             
10607

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1471, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5472, an

        10       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        11       relation to enabling the Dormitory Authority to

        12       finance and construct facilities.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Bruno.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        16       message at the desk, Mr. President?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        18       is.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I move we accept

        20       the message.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        22       to accept the message at the desk.  All those in

        23       favor signify by saying aye.











                                                             
10608

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      Opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response. )

         4                      The message is accepted.

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1472, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        16       Print Number 5478, an act to amend the Public

        17       Authorities Law, in relation to the board of

        18       trustees of the Long Island Power Authority.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Bruno.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        22       message, Mr. President?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is,











                                                             
10609

         1       Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I move we accept

         3       the message of necessity at the desk.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion to

         5       accept the message of necessity at the desk.

         6       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      The message is accepted.

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Lay aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      Senator Bruno, that completes the

        16       non-controversial calling of Supplemental

        17       Calendar Number 3.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Senator, could

        19       you at this time recognize Senator Stavisky for

        20       the purposes of voting.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Stavisky.

        23                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President,











                                                             
10610

         1       on 1444, would you consent to the reading of the

         2       last section?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section, Calendar Number

         5       1444.

         6                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr. President,

         7       I -

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1444 by -

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the title of Calendar Number 1444.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1444, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3182A, an

        14       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,

        15       in relation to special beaver management areas.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the first day of

        20       October.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )











                                                             
10611

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Stavisky, how do you vote?

         3                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  May I be

         4       recorded as voting in the negative?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Stavisky is recorded as voting in the negative.

         7                      The roll call is withdrawn.  The

         8       bill is laid aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Bruno.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        12       can we at this time take up the controversial

        13       Calendar 3.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will call Supplemental Calendar Number 3,

        16       controversial calendar.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1435, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 598A, an

        19       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        20       relation to proceeding to review.

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Holland, an explanation of Calendar Number 1435











                                                             
10612

         1       has been asked for by the Minority Leader.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      This is a tax certiorari bill.

         5       The problem started in the 1980s when the value

         6       of housing and commercial buildings started

         7       raising greatly; then the assessors raised the

         8       assessments on the properties so that the towns

         9       and villages could raise more money.  Then, in

        10       1990, when the assessments went down, the

        11       assessments were still high, the commercial and

        12       residential owners came to the assessors and

        13       asked that the assessment be reduced.

        14                      Today, particularly in the

        15       commercial areas, you can wait for four years

        16       and accumulate all that value for four years

        17       before you can claim a tax certiorari.  We are

        18       simply asking, because it has such a huge hit

        19       particularly on the schools, that it not be a

        20       four-year wait but it be a two-year eight-month

        21       wait so the hit on the school district is not so

        22       heavy.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10613

         1       Connor.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation

         3       satisfactory.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the first day of

         8       January.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        14       the results when tabulated.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar 1435 are Senators

        17       Hoblock, Kuhl, Lack, Larkin, Libous, Stachowski

        18       and Tully, also Senator Farley,.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the negatives.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        22       the negative on Calendar Number 1435 are

        23       Senators Farley, Hannon, Hoblock, Hoffmann,











                                                             
10614

         1       Kuhl, Lack, Larkin, Leibell, Libous, Marcellino,

         2       Maziarz, Nozzolio, Sears, Seward, Skelos,

         3       Stachowski, Tully, wright, and Senator Jones,

         4       also Senator DeFrancisco, also Senator Levy.

         5       Ayes 39, nays 20.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        10       recognizes Senator Bruno.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Can we at this

        12       time return to main Calendar Number 163.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the title of the Calendar Number 163

        15       on the main calendar, original calendar 66, for

        16       the day.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5

        18       Calendar Number 163, by Senator Goodman, Senate

        19       Print 1746A, an act authorizing the Dormitory

        20       Authority of the state of New York to plan,

        21       design and acquire a facility.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Bruno.











                                                             
10615

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, is

         2       there a message at the desk?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

         4                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move we accept

         5       the message.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         7       to accept the message of necessity at the desk.

         8       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The message is accepted.

        13       Secretary will call the roll.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Regular order,

        23       Mr. President.











                                                             
10616

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

         2       the controversial reading of Supplemental

         3       Calendar Number 3.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1437, by Senator Onorato, Senate Print Number

         6       1242, an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation

         7       to making possession of a lockable folding knife

         8       the crime of criminal possession of a weapon.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Gold -- excuse me.  Senator Cook, why do you

        11       rise?

        12                      SENATOR COOK:  I'd like to ask

        13       some questions.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  On the bill?

        15                      SENATOR COOK:  Yeah.  Mr.

        16       President, I just need a clarification on a

        17       couple of points if you could.  Could you -- I'm

        18       not clear as to what type of knife we're really

        19       talking about.  Is this -- is this what we would

        20       call a jackknife or what is a locking -- a

        21       locking knife?

        22                      SENATOR CONNOR:  What this is, is

        23       a switchblade.











                                                             
10617

         1                      SENATOR COOK:  A switchblade?

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes, because

         3       it's a knife -- it's defined as a folding knife

         4       which, when opened, is capable of being locked

         5       in an open state by means of a particular

         6       mechanical device, in other words you open it

         7       and you push a button and it's a switchblade.

         8                      SENATOR COOK:  O.K.

         9                      SENATOR CONNOR:  But there are

        10       exceptions.  It's not a total switchblade;

        11       there's a rider to this.  There are all sorts of

        12       exceptions.  It's a legitimate -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      Senator Sears, why do you rise?

        16                      SENATOR SEARS:  I do have a

        17       couple of questions on this.  Is a switchblade

        18       knife one that you push a button and the blade

        19       flips open, is that correct?

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes.

        21                      SENATOR SEARS:  Well, this says

        22       any folding knife which, when open, is capable

        23       of being locked in an open state by means of a











                                                             
10618

         1       stable mechanical device.  My problem with this

         2       part of it is this.  I do a lot of hunting with

         3       a knife.  When I push the blade, it doesn't fly

         4       open.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  When you lock

         6       it, it doesn't come back on your finger.

         7                      SENATOR SEARS:  Right.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  This doesn't let

         9       you do that, because it says specifically when

        10       the knife is being used for or in a place where

        11       it's being used for hunting, camping, hiking,

        12       picnicking, so virtually any legitimate use, it

        13       would permit that, as it should, Senator.

        14                      SENATOR SEARS:  O.K.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Hoffmann, why do you rise?

        17                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Senator Connor

        18       yield for a question?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Connor yields.

        21                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Senator

        22       Connor, I realize this isn't your bill.  I

        23       appreciate you answering some of these











                                                             
10619

         1       questions.  If I am feeding cattle at 6:00

         2       o'clock in the morning in my barn, with a small

         3       folding knife manufactured by Utica Cutlery in

         4       Senator Sears' district, which has a locking

         5       mechanism, and I go back into the house and I

         6       take that knife off my belt and I stick it in my

         7       purse so that it will be handy the next time

         8       that I need it, and I drive to Albany and I walk

         9       into these chambers, would I then be in

        10       violation of the law with that knife on my

        11       person, because I would not be in the process of

        12       hiking, hunting, camping or picnicking or being

        13       a Girl Scout?  As a New York State Senator,

        14       would I not be in violation of the law with that

        15       locking knife on my person?

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Well, Senator, I

        17       don't know.  Do you belong to a paramilitary -

        18                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Well if I

        19       considered myself a member of a military -

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  We have to get

        21       all the facts out.

        22                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  On the bill,

        23       Mr. President.











                                                             
10620

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Hoffmann, on the bill.

         3                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I rise on this

         4       bill right now to recognize that there are a

         5       number of us in this chamber, Senator Sears and

         6       myself in adjoining districts, who are very

         7       concerned about the concerns raised by Utica

         8       Cutlery, an esteemed manufacturer of fine

         9       knives, which number among them knives with

        10       locking mechanisms, not switchblades, my

        11       colleagues.

        12                      There are many types of locking

        13       knives which are commonly used in everyday

        14       practice and one of them fits neatly on a belt,

        15       I wish I had it with me to show everyone.  It's

        16       a dandy little knife.  I wear it right next to

        17       my leather awl, which is another multi-purpose

        18       tool which no one should be without, but a good

        19       locking buck knife is an invaluable tool and we

        20       should not be making this illegal.

        21                      If the sponsors of this bill

        22       would like to outlaw the possession of such

        23       knives for people engaged in drug trafficking or











                                                             
10621

         1       a specific illicit activity, then they should

         2       create a bill that specifically targets that

         3       illicit activity instead of trying to anticipate

         4       all other types of activities where law-abiding

         5       citizens might have them and in omitting some of

         6       the activities that those of us in this chamber

         7       and many of our constituents pursue.

         8                      I really think this is a very bad

         9       bill, much too broad bill, and I think that we

        10       would look a little foolish if we pass this

        11       bill.  I would urge all of my colleagues to vote

        12       no.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        14       recognizes Senator Abate.

        15                      SENATOR ABATE:  Just to clarify

        16       on the bill.  I would agree with Senator

        17       Hoffmann, if this were a law banning these

        18       weapons as a per se weapon, this would still

        19       make the prosecutor prove that it was not just

        20       mere possession.  They'd have to prove the

        21       intent to use this weapon unlawfully, so this is

        22       not a per se weapon.  It wouldn't be the mere

        23       possession of this knife is a criminal action.











                                                             
10622

         1       It would be the possession with intent to use

         2       unlawfully, so if someone that was carrying it

         3       to and from their house and it's in their purse,

         4       it would not be a crime.  It would not be a

         5       crime if it's used for hunting.  It would not be

         6       a crime if it's used to pare an apple.  It would

         7       only be a crime if it's used in the course of

         8       criminal activity.  So it's not as broad.  It's

         9       not a per se weapon.

        10                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Last section.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  I didn't say lay

        14       aside.  Last section.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Last

        16       section.

        17                      Senator Saland, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR SALAND:  Again, I realize

        19       this is not your bill, but could you tell me if

        20       there is anything in this bill that would say

        21       that somebody who collects lockable folding

        22       knives, those with unusual handles that are

        23       hand-crafted, that would be protected under this











                                                             
10623

         1       bill or might, in fact, be guilty of violating

         2       the law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         4       bill aside.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1443, by member of the Assembly Dinowitz,

         7       Assembly Print 1170A, substituted earlier today,

         8       an act to amend the General Business Law, in

         9       relation to advertising the square footage of

        10       rentable commercial property.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  I'm sorry.

        14       1443?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1444, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3182A, an

        19       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,

        20       in relation to special beaver management areas.

        21                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation,

        22       please.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10624

         1       Wright, an explanation of Calendar Number 1444

         2       has been asked for by the Minority Leader.

         3                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      Well, while I recognize the bill

         6       has achieved a certain degree of recognition

         7       among my colleagues, it is, in fact, a very

         8       serious matter in the St. Lawrence River valley

         9       and, as a result, has got strong support from

        10       the Department of Environmental Conservation,

        11       Bureau of Wildlife Management, as well as the

        12       Farm Bureau attempting to address the concerns

        13       that are being created.

        14                      What the bill does is establishes

        15       a means of addressing the property damage to

        16       personal property that is occurring throughout

        17       our region of the state and develop a compre

        18       hensive management plan with the designation of

        19       special management areas for that purpose.  That

        20       approach was developed on the basis of a series

        21       of public meetings throughout the area securing

        22       the input from the various stakeholders, to

        23       develop appropriate means of addressing the











                                                             
10625

         1       problems and the concerns.

         2                      Now, let me just share with you

         3       some of the statistics that the Wildlife

         4       Management Bureau has maintained as indicative

         5       of the type of difficulties that are being

         6       encountered.

         7                      Within the period of fall of 1993

         8       to 1994, the beaver population increased by over

         9       10 percent.  That population is expected to

        10       continue to increase peaking at 46,000 colonies

        11       within the next ten years up from 19,000 at the

        12       current time.

        13                      Each one of those colonies

        14       compose -- are composed of roughly five

        15       beavers.  To give you an indication of the

        16       nature of the complaints that are being

        17       generated, in 1994 DEC regional offices received

        18       2466 beaver-related complaints reflecting a 12.5

        19       percent increase.  At peak populations it's

        20       expected there will be in excess of 8,000 annual

        21       complaints at an average cost of $2500 in damage

        22       which in this last year alone exceeded $6

        23       million in personal property damage.  At its











                                                             
10626

         1       peak it's expected that there will be $20

         2       million in personal property losses as a result

         3       of the problems being caused.

         4                      So the approach was to use

         5       special management areas that authorize DEC to

         6       then develop and implement, by regulation, a

         7       particular management plan to protect the

         8       interests of the landowners and, at the same

         9       time, to protect the environmental concerns

        10       relative to wetlands and downstream impacts.

        11                      To give you an idea, in one wild

        12       life management area in the past year the beaver

        13       removal harvest was 6264.  In addition, special

        14       permits were issued for another 612, bringing

        15       the total number of removals to 6800 animals.

        16       That is still 3,000 less than the projected

        17       population management targets of the Wildlife

        18       Bureau, and a recent aerial survey indicated

        19       that the population ratio, even after those kind

        20       of numbers are taken, is still too high at one

        21       and a quarter colonies per square mile and

        22       that's a very intensive situation.

        23                      So there has been considerable











                                                             
10627

         1       effort made to recognize the nature of the

         2       problem, to recognize the sensitivity of the

         3       animal itself, but at the same time to recognize

         4       the concerns of the property owners, of the

         5       farmers who literally end up with hundreds of

         6       acres under water preventing it from being

         7       productive management property and, as a result,

         8       this is the approach that's been developed in

         9       consultation with the Department of

        10       Environmental Conservation to take a reasonable

        11       approach to management.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Connor.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes.  Will the

        15       Senator yield for a question?

        16                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I will, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       yields.

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Senator, with

        21       respect to this dam bill, could you -

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I appreciate the

        23       levity, Senator.











                                                             
10628

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  That's d-a-m,

         2       d-a-m, please.  There are some others that I

         3       could share with you that have been shared with

         4       me.

         5                      Could you please tell me where,

         6       in fact, these special beaver areas are?

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  They are not

         8       designated at this point in time.  The statute

         9       authorizes, and I would read the section where

        10       it specifically designates.  When it finds that

        11       an area of the state is suffering excessive

        12       damage caused by the beaver, the Department may,

        13       by regulation, designate such an area as a

        14       special management area and then it goes on to

        15       articulate the considerations to be taken into

        16       account.

        17                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Would the

        18       Senator further yield, Mr. President?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Wright, do you yield?

        21                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I do.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Wright yields.











                                                             
10629

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      I wonder if Senator Wright could

         4       tell us whether, for example, public lands would

         5       be eligible to be designated as a special beaver

         6       management area under this legislation.

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  In terms of

         8       DEC's definition, you have public wildlife units

         9       that include both public and private lands.

        10                      SENATOR CONNOR:  So if the

        11       Senator would yield for a further question.

        12       Could -- under this legislation and its regula

        13       tions, for example, could forever wild lands in

        14       the Adirondacks be designated as special beaver

        15       management areas, thus allowing the destruction

        16       of dams without any supervision by DEC?

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  No, Senator, I

        18       do not believe that's the intent of the agency.

        19       It's certainly not my intent and, again, I think

        20       if you'll note, the criteria is "suffering

        21       excessive damage" and the background material

        22       that we shared that the agency has been using is

        23       all predicated on personal property damage,











                                                             
10630

         1       damage to roadways, damage to farms going under

         2       water, those are the kinds of conditions that

         3       are certainly not the type of concern that would

         4       exist in a designated forever wild area in the

         5       Adirondack Park.

         6                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Will the Senator

         7       yield for a further question?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Wright, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I will.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Senator, I once

        14       had the wonderful experience of seeing a dam in

        15       formation on a hiking trail in the Adirondacks,

        16       a laid-out hiking trail.  You had to get off the

        17       trail because the energetic beavers, who I guess

        18       are the world's best engineers, had actually

        19       begun the formation of a dam in a little stream

        20       that crossed the trail, and the water was

        21       building up.  I think they only had been at it a

        22       couple of days.  It was amazing to see.

        23                      Now, would you consider, for











                                                             
10631

         1       example, interfering with such a marked trail as

         2        -- as the kind of damage to property that would

         3       warrant designation of it as a special

         4       management area?

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  No, Senator, I

         6       don't anticipate that that would be a

         7       circumstance that this would be utilized in

         8       either.  Again, the intent -- and I've seen

         9       those dams under construction myself as I've had

        10       occasion to walk those trails with my daughter

        11       who has enjoyed that experience as much as I

        12       have, but I've also had the occasion to see

        13       fertile agricultural property under water where

        14       it was previously productive.  I've seen fertile

        15       timber land that was previously productive under

        16       water.  I've seen roadways that have been under

        17       cut as a result of the water and the erosion

        18       that have cost additional monies to small towns

        19       and villages on a recurring basis, so I've seen

        20       the down side of what I'm sure was a very good

        21       experience for you as it was for me, and so

        22       we're trying to take both of those factors into

        23       consideration in designating a management area











                                                             
10632

         1       and allowing the agency to respond in an

         2       appropriate fashion dictated by the problems

         3       that are occurring.

         4                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President,

         5       would the Senator yield for one further

         6       question?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Wright -

         9                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I will.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       continues to yield.

        12                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Presently, is

        13       there not a program of DEC which informs

        14       property owners that have beaver problems to

        15       call the regional office and provides for

        16       technicians from DEC and the Division of Fish

        17       and Wildlife to promptly inspect the property to

        18       assess the conditions and they authorize the

        19       issue of immediate permits even if the dams are

        20       on a regulated fresh water wetland or a

        21       protected stream; isn't there presently a

        22       program like that?

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, there is











                                                             
10633

         1       Senator; there is a program.  I think the two

         2       controlling words are "immediate" and "prompt

         3       ly", two you have utilized that have not been

         4       the experience and, as I pointed out, under the

         5       existing permit system, even when those permits

         6       have been issued, there continues to be a rapid

         7       growing older population that is not part of the

         8       planned management control of that population

         9       and, as a result, the very agency that is

        10       administering this program has actively sought

        11       for the last year public input from the various

        12       stakeholders as to how to best resolve this

        13       problem.

        14                      The fact that they are having

        15       increasing complaints, the fact that even when

        16       they respond promptly and when they provide

        17       timely permits, it does not sufficiently

        18       mitigate the problem and consequently they have

        19       developed this alternative as the best approach

        20       to utilize.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        22       recognizes Senator Oppenheimer.

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you.











                                                             
10634

         1                      I wonder, are you aware, Senator

         2       Wright, that there are -- if you would yield for

         3       a question.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Wright, do you yield to Senator Oppenheimer?

         6                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I do.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Senator yields.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  -- that

        10       there are alternatives to the measures that you

        11       are suggesting in your bill? There are

        12       alternatives that are humane that already exist

        13       in other states for controlling the beaver

        14       population?

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I am aware

        16       of that, Senator, and I would point out that the

        17       bill in no way precludes utilization of those

        18       techniques.  In fact, the bill does not specify

        19       a particular technique to be utilized.  The bill

        20       authorizes the designation of a management area,

        21       the development of a comprehensive management

        22       plan within that area and a variety of

        23       techniques that can be utilized by the agency











                                                             
10635

         1       conditioned upon the circumstances that they

         2       feel warrants that kind of response.  So those

         3       alternatives used in Maine and other areas are

         4       not precluded at all and, in fact, may well be

         5       the appropriate response that is incorporated

         6       within the management plan within the designated

         7       area.

         8                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Then I

         9       guess I would have to question how you feel

        10       about the legalization of underwater snare traps

        11       which is a part of this bill?

        12                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  What this bill

        13       does, Senator, is it authorizes the utilization

        14       of that but, if you'll notice, on line 24 the

        15       controlling word is "the Department may by

        16       regulation permit the use" and again, it is an

        17       alternative that is available to the agency and

        18       again predicated on the conditions and the

        19       severity of those conditions would dictate

        20       whether or not the agency utilized that

        21       particular approach.

        22                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  But you

        23       will admit that the fact that it is permitted











                                                             
10636

         1       when it has not heretofore been permitted is

         2       legalizing a form of trap that we have felt is

         3       not humane throughout the state.

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I would note

         5       here, Senator, that there has been legalized

         6       trapping of the beaver.  This particular al

         7       ternative has not been authorized.  It is

         8       authorized as an alternative and an option that

         9       may be utilized by the agency again based on

        10       what I believe to be a reasonable assessment of

        11       the severity of the conditions.

        12                      If, in fact, all of the

        13       circumstances that are being predicted here do

        14       come to fruition, then it may well be an

        15       alternative that they would have to pursue.  I

        16       don't envision them taking that lightly.  I

        17       think they well recognize, as I do, and I'm sure

        18       my colleagues recognize, that that is not an

        19       alternative that has been authorized

        20       heretofore.  This simply provides it as an

        21       alternative, the controlling language being

        22       "may" as opposed to "shall".

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  And if you











                                                             
10637

         1       would yield further.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Wright, do you continue to yield?

         4                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Certainly.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       continues to yield.

         7                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Could you

         8       tell me the reasoning behind increasing the time

         9       period that traps go unchecked from one day to

        10       two or three days?  If traps are not checked and

        11       animals are caught in them, it's an extremely

        12       painful slow death to not be taken out for three

        13       days instead of our present one day.

        14                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Well, Senator, I

        15       think it's just a recognition of the timeliness

        16       of checking those particular traps.  The -- the

        17       extension of the period of time here, I do not

        18       believe would have any adverse effect on -- on

        19       the use of the trap one way or the other.

        20                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  All right.

        21       Thank you, Senator.  On the bill, please.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Oppenheimer, on the bill.











                                                             
10638

         1                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Well, we've

         2       been talking pretty much about animals, and

         3       that's an important part of this, and another

         4       important part is our state's historic

         5       commitment to wetlands, an issue that I have

         6       been involved with for over 20 years, and this

         7       would involve the destruction of as much as a

         8       hundred thousand acres of wetland, and there

         9       would be almost no oversight by DEC.

        10                      DEC has limited oversight now in

        11       that they are approving the permits with almost

        12       no oversight at all, but at least there is still

        13       a role that DEC can play.  With this bill, there

        14       would be no role and the environmental impacts

        15       are severe for wetlands as well as for the

        16       dependent wildlife that I mentioned earlier.

        17                      I feel a great risk on many

        18       animals with the underwater snare trap, and

        19       we're talking about otters, ducks, loons,

        20       turtles, I'm talking of beavers and many water

        21       foul, and these will be experiencing very slow

        22       death by drowning, and it's -- it's something

        23       that I don't, you know, the needless suffering











                                                             
10639

         1       is appalling to me, and the leg hold traps we

         2       have not permitted because they are so abusive

         3       to the animal and cause such suffering.

         4                      There are alternatives in -- in

         5       Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries and

         6       Wildlife and the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service

         7       have both stated that destroying beavers and

         8       dynamiting their dams only allows more beavers

         9       to move into the vacated habitat.  Flooding

        10       problems will continue.  However, by working

        11       with beavers and controlling local water levels

        12       with human made devices of pipes and fencing,

        13       they can attain a permanent and economical

        14       solution, and this is what I think we ought to

        15       be pursuing.  We ought to be looking at those

        16       alternatives and, on a more humane note, we

        17       should note that the beaver, since 1975, is the

        18       animal of New York State.  It is our state

        19       animal, and I -- I feel very strongly and so do

        20       every one of the environmental groups, that this

        21       is a very poor bill because it's harmful to

        22       wildlife and it's harmful to our state program

        23       of wetland conservation.











                                                             
10640

         1                      I'll be voting no.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       DiCarlo.

         4                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      Does the Senator yield for a

         7       question?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Wright, do you yield to Senator DiCarlo?

        10                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Senator will

        11       yield.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       yields.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Senator Wright,

        15       Senator Oppenheimer raised one point that I was

        16       going to raise with you.  Were you aware of the

        17       fact that the state animal of New York State was

        18       the beaver?

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Senator DiCarlo,

        20       I'm well aware of that fact, as you have pointed

        21       out to me on numerous occasions as we've dis

        22       cussed this bill in this corner of the chamber

        23       and as other colleagues have pointed out to me.











                                                             
10641

         1       I would point out that, as the Senator noted, it

         2       has been the state animal for some period of

         3       time and during that entire period of time, we

         4       were authorized to trap and by permit to take

         5       beaver.  So this does not alter our relationship

         6       with our state animal.

         7                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Does the

         8       Senator yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Wright, do you continue to yield?

        11                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I do, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Senator yields.

        15                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Along the same

        16       lines, Mr. President, a question.  Is Senator

        17       Wright also aware that the beaver is the symbol

        18       of a major -- some say major, some say minor

        19       party in the state of New York and is he aware

        20       of the party that the beaver is the symbol for?

        21                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I was not aware

        22       of that, Senator, until you brought it to my

        23       attention earlier this evening; however, I'm











                                                             
10642

         1       sure that this bill will achieve bipartisan

         2       support.

         3                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

         4       through you, the question again to Senator

         5       Wright, is he aware of the party that the beaver

         6       is the symbol of?

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I do not have

         8       personal knowledge, Mr. President.  The

         9       knowledge that I have is secondhand provided by

        10       a colleague and whether or not that's accurate

        11       knowledge, I can't vouch for.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       DiCarlo.

        14                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Well, to answer

        15       the question that I posed to the Senator, the

        16       beaver is the symbol of the Conservative Party.

        17                      On the bill.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       DiCarlo, on the bill.

        20                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  This is a very,

        21       very serious issue and one thing I can say about

        22       Senator Wright is this bill, he and I have sat

        23       next to each other for almost two years now.











                                                             
10643

         1       This is our second session, and this bill has

         2       been a bill that I've spoken to the Senator

         3       about for two years now, and I never thought he

         4       would bring this bill out and he brought it out

         5       tonight, and this is an important bill to the

         6       Senator.

         7                      Far be it from me as a guy from

         8       Brooklyn to tell the North Country how to run

         9       their affairs.  We've had a lot of good fun with

        10       this bill, but it is a serious bill, and I will

        11       listen to the advice of my colleague from the

        12       North Country and I would support this

        13       legislation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Hoffmann.

        16                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      I recognize that some of my

        19       colleagues in the chamber have received the

        20       memorandum from the Environmental Planning

        21       Lobby.  As they are wont to do, they have

        22       provided us with their summation of this bill

        23       and, to quote Senator Cook, it has three cigars











                                                             
10644

         1       indicating they think it is a very, very bad

         2       bill, and I would dispute their rating of this

         3       bill with the three cigars, but more

         4       importantly, I would like to offer the

         5       perspective of a landowner and a farmer as to

         6       what it means to the stewards of the land in

         7       this state, farmers who are faced with enormous

         8       environmental danger and damage to their own

         9       land, something which EPL seems not to even

        10       consider when it puts out this memo and, in

        11       fact, it troubles me greatly to see that a group

        12       which labels itself as an environmental

        13       protection group would have so little regard for

        14       the manner in which farmers conduct their

        15       activities because farmers more carefully

        16       safeguard the land than do any of the rest of

        17       the citizens in this state because it is, in

        18       fact, their livelihood.

        19                      But EPL, in putting this memo

        20       together, has used the phrase that, because this

        21       bill would essentially create an open season on

        22       beavers -- not true, by the way, for anybody

        23       reading the bill as Senator Wright so carefully











                                                             
10645

         1       explained -- and I'm further quoting from the

         2       EPL memo, "*** and lead to the destruction of

         3       thousands of acres of wetland, EPL strongly

         4       opposes this bill."

         5                      This shows just how backwards EPL

         6       has this situation.  It is not farmers

         7       destroying wetlands that is the issue here.  It

         8       is beavers creating wetlands out of viable farm

         9       land that is the issue that has led to the

        10       necessity for this bill.

        11                      Most farmers enjoy beavers as do

        12       the rest of us.  I have a couple of beavers

        13       building a beautiful lodge.  Senator Connor, you

        14       might like to bring your children; Senator

        15       Wright, your children are welcome to come and

        16       watch this lodge and dam under construction just

        17       adjacent to my farm.

        18                      Now, let me tell you what is

        19       happening with that lodge and that dam.  All of

        20       us have heard the expression "busy as a

        21       beaver."  By golly, these little critters have

        22       made sure that in a relatively short period of

        23       time they have flooded the stream over its banks











                                                             
10646

         1       and it is continuing to flood and soon will

         2       engulf a great deal of tillable land.

         3                      The result of that is that a

         4       farmer who is forced to get a permit from DEC or

         5       forced to wait for an authorized DEC trapper to

         6       come and remove those beavers will face the

         7       certain loss of a crop or hay or pasture land,

         8       and agriculture, my colleagues, is our number

         9       one industry in this state.  There may not be

        10       many farmers left in this Legislature in either

        11       house, but we owe it to respect the farmers of

        12       this state that when they feel the need for a

        13       measure like this, we should give it some

        14       serious consideration.

        15                      I think it's unfortunate that

        16       it's come up this late, that it didn't come

        17       through the usual committees, but I think

        18       Senator Wright did an admirable job of

        19       explaining it.  He used careful statistical

        20       analysis, discussed the relationship between DEC

        21       and those purveyors of the land, those who have

        22       timber or agricultural -- other agricultural

        23       activities who would be affected by this.  So











                                                             
10647

         1       before you take too literally the words of EPL,

         2       listen to those of us who do have to live side

         3       by side with beavers and do experience the loss

         4       of our lands to wetlands.  It is not, as EPL

         5       would describe, the loss of wetlands to

         6       agriculture that has necessitated this bill.

         7                      I would urge an "aye" vote on

         8       this measure tonight.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        13       October.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        18       the results when tabulated.

        19                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        20       Sears to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR SEARS:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      I would just like to point out











                                                             
10648

         1       that I value the beaver as the state animal.  I

         2       am also a co-sponsor of this bill, and let me

         3       just point out one other thing and that is that

         4       when you trap the beaver, you don't have to trap

         5       them to kill them.

         6                      We have a situation that a very

         7       popular shopping center up in New Hartford just

         8       outside of Utica, there was a problem when it

         9       was built because there was beaver to the

        10       wetland.  We solved the problem by taking these

        11       beaver out of there, but we live trapped them

        12       and replanted them somewhere else and there was

        13       nothing wrong with them.  We didn't kill them.

        14       They had a brand new life, they started building

        15       beaver dams at another location.  So this thing

        16       isn't all bad.

        17                      I might remind you of something

        18       else.  I think so much of the beaver, those of

        19       you who may have had an illness at one time or

        20       another, I developed a get well card that uses

        21       the beaver in it, and for those of you who may

        22       have received one, it simply is a clothesline

        23       with a beaver in a night shirt hangin' on the











                                                             
10649

         1       clothesline like this (indicating) and my

         2       message simply says "Hang in there and get

         3       better."

         4                      I vote for the bill.  Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Sears will be recorded in the affirmative.

         7                      Senator Oppenheimer to explain

         8       her vote.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  It's just

        10       about every environmental group that is against

        11       this, it's not just EPL.  It's Sierra; it's

        12       Audubon; it's a whole listing of them, and I

        13       agree with Senator Sears that there are humane

        14       ways to trap the beaver.  I just do not believe

        15       that the leg snare trap is something that we

        16       want to subscribe to in the state of New York.

        17                      I'll be voting no.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Oppenheimer recorded in the negative.  Senator

        20       Paterson to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       I just want the record to note that

        23       Environmental Advocates, Sierra Club, Actors and











                                                             
10650

         1       Others for Animals, People for Animal Rights and

         2       a number of groups are against this bill.  One

         3       of their sources of opposition was not mentioned

         4       in this discussion is the fact that the under

         5       water traps that are also allowed in this bill

         6       would trap the loons which are an endangered

         7       species, would also trap otters and turtles and

         8       probably anybody else who would be in the

         9       stream.

        10                      We urge a no vote.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  How do

        12       you vote, Senator Paterson?

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson will be recorded in the negative.

        16       Results.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        18       the negative on Calendar 1444 are Senators

        19       Abate, Dollinger, Goodman, Jones, Leibell,

        20       Maltese, Marcellino, Markowitz, Maziarz,

        21       Oppenheimer, Paterson, Solomon, Stachowski,

        22       Stavisky, Senator Tully, Senator Connor, also

        23       Senator Montgomery, also Senator Levy, also











                                                             
10651

         1       Senator LaValle.  Ayes 40, nays 19.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Secretary will continue to call

         5       the controversial calendar.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1450, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print Number

         8       4315A, an act -

         9                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Hannon, an explanation of Calendar Number 1450

        12       has been asked for by the Minority Leader.

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      This bill requires that any

        16       contract by NYPA, New York Power Authority be -

        17       that would be between it and the federal entity

        18       be under the determination that it's for the

        19       benefit of the area ratepayers.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Connor.

        22                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.  Will Senator Hannon yield to a











                                                             
10652

         1       question?

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       yields.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you,

         6       Senator.

         7                      Could you give me an example?

         8       Are there existing contracts?  I mean is this a

         9       real problem somewhere, or are we just antici

        10       pating somehow or other in the future that the

        11       New York Power Authority will start giving away

        12       electricity to the federal government?

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, the

        14       genesis of this is that the -- there's currently

        15       a vieing between the Con Ed and NYPA as to who

        16       can supply power to the United States for usage

        17       in the New York City area and, of course, NYPA,

        18       if it does it, can supply power at a no tax

        19       basis, no utility gross receipts basis, et

        20       cetera, so they have this distinct advantage and

        21       the thought here is, unless they do something

        22       that would be for the benefit of the area

        23       involved, the city of New York, that they ought











                                                             
10653

         1       not to do that.

         2                      Remember, we have about one-third

         3       of gross receipts of the Con Ed that goes for

         4       some tax of one form or another, so we as a

         5       state and the -- the legislators have a vested

         6       interest in having it being -- go towards Con

         7       Ed, so we can use it as a vehicle for greater

         8       tax collection.  We know that both the city and

         9       the state have problems in revenue, so this

        10       would be a good reason for doing it.

        11                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President,

        12       would the Senator yield for another question?

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       continues to yield.

        16                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Senator, I

        17       assume you're referring to indirect taxes

        18       because would not any direct taxes by a

        19       ratepayer find the federal government exempt

        20       from such state taxation?

        21                      SENATOR HANNON:  The gross

        22       receipts that come to the utilities, I don't

        23       believe so.











                                                             
10654

         1                      SENATOR CONNOR:  That's an

         2       indirect tax.

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  When I said a

         4       third, we're talking about the indirect tax.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  O.K.

         6                      SENATOR CONNOR:  That's why we

         7       have a separate category for utilities just in

         8       the city of New York.  That's why we have them

         9       keeping their same percentage of the rate base,

        10       of the real property tax base, that they've

        11       always had; so yeah, but it's a question of

        12       where we're going to collect the money.

        13                      For instance, the other thing

        14       that I thought of is, look, NYPA gets to sell

        15       this at about, oh, about 7 cents a kilowatt.  I

        16       don't know what Con Ed's price is, but my guess

        17       is it's about 13, 14 cents a kilowatt, so you

        18       can see the advantage that it has.

        19                      If we want to have that type of

        20       differential, why don't we get those low kilo

        21       watts going to residents of the city of New York

        22       and Westchester and Long Island where we're

        23       paying way above that?  I just can't see it and











                                                             
10655

         1       this is all at a time, surprised you'd be, you

         2       know, objecting to this.  This is all at a time

         3       when the federal government says in its drive to

         4       balance the budget they're going to take

         5       billions of dollars out of the state of New

         6       York.

         7                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.  On

         8       the bill, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Connor, can you excuse me just a minute?

        11       Gentlemen, ladies, can we keep it down just a

        12       little bit, please.  It's very noisy in here.

        13       We only have a few bills left, and members

        14       please take their seats, conversations out of

        15       the chamber.

        16                      Thank you, Senator Connor.

        17       Senator Connor, on the bill.

        18                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      I didn't realize that we had such

        21       a problem.  I can think of these federal

        22       facilities in the city of New York with which

        23       I'm familiar in my own district, Governor's











                                                             
10656

         1       Island which was for many years an Army facility

         2       and then the Coast Guard, I think, they're going

         3       to close that now.  I think the city of New York

         4       would rather keep those 6,000 military personnel

         5       there and remember when they represented Staten

         6       Island, we had a Homeport, big investment by the

         7       federal government supported by many, many

         8       people in New York City, albeit controversial in

         9       some quarters.  Unfortunately, that's closed.

        10                      I know just a couple years ago

        11       the city of New York was fighting to keep the

        12       Homeport.  It seems to me that while local input

        13       is important, the federal government is just not

        14       the enemy.  I would hate to see federal

        15       installations moved from New York State and New

        16       York City because regrettably for some of the

        17       reasons Senator Hannon pointed out in terms of

        18       gross receipts taxes and other things,

        19       regrettably in past years utilities somehow or

        20       other had looked like easy pickings because

        21       they're there and they can't go anywhere and the

        22       ultimate taxpayer, the ratepayer, has the impact

        23       of the taxes somehow or other, but I would











                                                             
10657

         1       really in this time of shrinking federal

         2       government, shrinking federal facilities,

         3       military and non-military, as the federal

         4       government moves to balance its budget, there is

         5       only one way it can do it and that is by making

         6       government smaller and more efficient as the

         7       President just outlined, and I know Congress has

         8       their version of that, and I'm sure they'll work

         9       that out.

        10                      I would just hate to do something

        11       that would encourage the federal government to

        12       say, Let's pull out of New York because, gee,

        13       power costs there are too much.  Senator Hannon

        14       said they could conclude, Gee, we're paying 14

        15       cents a kilowatt hour because of all the taxes

        16       there.  If we have a choice between closing the

        17       whatever department's facility, whether it's

        18       Bureau of Prisons or military or whatever in New

        19       York or in Tennessee where power is cheap

        20       because of a federal authority, let's close up

        21       in New York because we would lose the jobs.  We

        22       would lose other sorts of revenue that New

        23       Yorkers who were employed by the federal











                                                             
10658

         1       government contribute in state taxes, and so

         2       on.

         3                      So I don't see a direct problem

         4       here.  I see Senator Hannon raises a theoretical

         5       problem, and I can see that leading to some very

         6       practical problems whereby we could actually

         7       lose jobs in New York provided by the federal

         8       government.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        10       recognizes Senator Hannon.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

        12       President, just to close.

        13                      That's why the whole point about

        14       benefit.  That's why it's a good one and that's

        15       why we say that there should be a finding that

        16       any agreement would be for the benefit of the

        17       ratepayers and for the state because we could

        18       recognize there could be some direct benefit.

        19       Otherwise, we would just be having these

        20       contracts entered into for the aggrandizement of

        21       some public benefit corporation which I don't

        22       think is why they should exist.

        23                      I think we should-- they have had











                                                             
10659

         1       a long period of good service to the state.

         2       This is just -- the whole thing has just come up

         3       in the last two years, and I think we should let

         4       them continue with their tradition of service,

         5       and that's what this would encourage them to do.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        14       the results when tabulated.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar 1450 are Senators

        17       Connor, Hoffmann, Maziarz, Paterson, Sears,

        18       Seward and Stachowski.  Ayes 52, nays 7.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Secretary will continue to call

        22       the controversial calendar.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
10660

         1       1455, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 5325.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Cook, an explanation of Calendar 1455 has been

         5       asked for by the Minority Leader.

         6                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, as

         7       I -- the information that I have available is

         8       that originally the school districts within this

         9       particular BOCES had self-insurance, health

        10       insurance.  I don't know how you do that, but

        11       apparently they did.

        12                      At one point, it became apparent

        13       to them that that was not a good idea, so they

        14       did pool all of these self-insurance programs

        15       into a -- an insurance plan that's functioning,

        16       that operates through the BOCES.  But they

        17       retained the individual plans to the point where

        18       the experience rating for each school district

        19       became the basis for the rate for that

        20       individual school district, so that each one

        21       continued to pay its premium based upon whatever

        22       claims were made by that -- by the employees

        23       from that particular school district.











                                                             
10661

         1                      Community rating, of course,

         2       requires now that there be a common rate across

         3       the entire plan, and what this -- what is going

         4       to happen as a result of going to community

         5       rating, because there are some school districts

         6       that have had very low rates and some that have

         7       had comparatively high rates within the system,

         8       is that one school district is actually going to

         9       face a 77 percent increase in the premium if

        10       they have do it all in one year.

        11                      That's why they're asking for a

        12       three-year phase-in so that they can phase that

        13       77 percent or whatever those increases are in

        14       over a period of time, so that they ultimately

        15       will get to community rating, but they want a

        16       three-year phase-in period.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Connor.

        19                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.  Would Senator Cook yield to a

        21       question?

        22                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator











                                                             
10662

         1       yields.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Will not the

         3       ratings of some of the, for lack of a better

         4       word, better rated school districts in this

         5       consortium under community rating go down?

         6                      SENATOR COOK:  They -- yes, they

         7       will.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes, the higher

         9       rated ones.

        10                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.  At a certain

        11       point, Senator, Mr. President, if I may, at a

        12       certain point, that's correct, and, of course,

        13       that's what community rating is supposed to do,

        14       but their original agreement, this is by common

        15       agreement among all of them, when they started

        16       was they were going to have individual rates so

        17       these districts are willing to -- to accept the

        18       fact that they will not get, if you will, the

        19       benefit simply because it was the original

        20       agreement, that was the way they were going to

        21       work.  Now, they will get there eventually, but

        22       it is by common agreement.

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.











                                                             
10663

         1       Explanation satisfactory.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        10       the results when tabulated.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays

        12       one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the

        13       negative.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1459, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        18       Print 5415, an act to amend the Tax Law, the

        19       General City Law and the Administrative Code of

        20       the city of New York.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        22       will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This











                                                             
10664

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         6       the results when tabulated.  Those members

         7       voting in the negative please put your hands up

         8       and keep them up so the Secretary can record the

         9       negatives.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar 1459 are Senators Cook,

        12       Hannon, Holland, Johnson, Lack, Larkin, LaValle,

        13       Leibell, Levy, Libous, Marcellino, Oppenheimer,

        14       Saland, Skelos, Trunzo, and Tully.  Ayes 43,

        15       nays 16.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      Senator Wright, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        20       could I request unanimous consent to be recorded

        21       in the negative on Calendar Number 1450.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Wright











                                                             
10665

         1       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         2       Number 1450.

         3                      Secretary will continue to call

         4       the controversial calendar, Supplemental

         5       Calendar Number 3.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1461, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         8       Print 5417, an act to amend the Local Finance

         9       Law, in relation to the sale of bonds and notes

        10       of the city of New York.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1467, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5369, an

        23       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,











                                                             
10666

         1       in relation to licenses to sell beer and wine.

         2                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1467

         5       has been asked for by several members of the

         6       Minority.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      I think I can explain this in a

        10       rather timely manner.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Stafford, excuse me for the interruption.  It's

        13       still too noisy in here.  Quiet it down,

        14       please.

        15                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I'll try to be

        16       very clear.  The industry has asked for this

        17       legislation.  At the present time, if someone

        18       sells both beer and wine spritzers -- wine

        19       coolers, excuse me.  I'm trying to get out of

        20       work here -- wine coolers, they pay $180.

        21                      Now, what this bill will do,

        22       there'll be just one permit and you can sell

        23       both for $150.  Also to clear it up, at the











                                                             
10667

         1       present time, most of the products sold is malt

         2       based, so it really comes under the beer tax, so

         3       this is something, I think, that will clear -

         4       and no one will be confused and have a beer

         5       license and a few wine coolers that are left

         6       that would be covered.  They will not be selling

         7       them without the proper permit.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Connor.

        10                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes.  If the

        11       Senator would yield -- I'm sorry, Senator.

        12       Reading the bill and I find the license -

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I had the same

        14       confusion.

        15                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yeah.  One is

        16       $150 and one is $320.  Which one costs which?  I

        17       don't understand that.  In other words, the

        18       annual fee for a license to sell beer and wine

        19       products at retail not to be consumed under the

        20       present shall be $150.

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  That's what it

        22       will be if the bill passes.

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Then it says,











                                                             
10668

         1       "However, when the applicant is the holder of

         2       two such licenses ..."  You mean if they own two

         3       stores?

         4                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  More than two

         5       stores.  That's the way it is now so it would be

         6       the same there.  If you have more than two

         7       licenses, that's what it would be.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Is that for more

         9       than two premises?

        10                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.

        11                      SENATOR CONNOR:  And then you pay

        12       $320 -

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  -- for each such

        15       license?

        16                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  That's the way

        17       it was.

        18                      SENATOR CONNOR:  So your first

        19       license is $150 and every one after that is

        20       $320, is that it?

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Right.  I will

        22       -- let me just emphasize -- okay.

        23                      Thank you.











                                                             
10669

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         4       act shall -

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Markowitz -- Senator Jones.

         7                      SENATOR JONES:  Would the sponsor

         8       just yield to a question?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Stafford, do you yield to Senator Jones?  The

        11       Senator yields.

        12                      SENATOR JONES:  Can you just

        13       clarify for me, Senator, does this just apply to

        14       beer and wine coolers that are currently sold or

        15       does this allow retail stories to sell actually

        16       bottles of wine that they're not currently

        17       doing?

        18                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Very good

        19       question.  I asked that this morning.  Nothing

        20       to do with bottles of wine.

        21                      SENATOR JONES:  It has nothing to

        22       do -- this does not give grocery stores the

        23       right to --  Thank you.











                                                             
10670

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  I hope that

         2       answers the question.

         3                      SENATOR JONES:  That's what I

         4       needed to know. Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Markowitz, did you wish to speak or was that

         7       your question?

         8                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Just one

         9       further question, Senator Stafford.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Stafford, do you yield to Senator Markowitz?

        12       The Senator yields.

        13                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you.

        14                      In those sections where we refer

        15       to wine spritzers or wine coolers, is it

        16       commonly referred to in the lower as wine -- as

        17       wine products?

        18                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Wine products.

        19                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  So what is -

        20       let me ask you a question then.

        21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Very

        22       confusing.

        23                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Yeah.  What











                                                             
10671

         1       is wine -- I mean, wine is not considered a wine

         2       product?

         3                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Another law

         4       altogether.

         5                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  Thank you.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         9       act shall take effect January 1.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1472, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        18       Print 5478, an act to amend the Public

        19       Authorities Law.

        20                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       message of necessity was previously accepted.

        23       An explanation of Calendar Number 1472 has been











                                                             
10672

         1       asked for.

         2                      Senator Johnson.

         3                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         4       this bill makes certain changes in the Public

         5       Authorities Law relating to the Long Island

         6       Power Authority.  It would change the present

         7       nine-member board to a seven-member board.  It

         8       would be five appointees by the Governor,

         9       including the chairman and one each from the

        10       Speaker of the Assembly and the President of the

        11       Senate -- Temporary President of the Senate.

        12       There's going to be an oversight function by the

        13       Public Authorities Control Board.  Anything -

        14       any spending over $1 million or any bonding

        15       would have to be approved by that body.

        16                      Also, I think it's very

        17       significant that any project which is undertaken

        18       by this Authority would have to be determined to

        19       be financially feasible, not negatively affect

        20       the real property tax rates, hopefully at lower

        21       or equal or lower utility rates and not higher

        22       rates, and that is what we founded this group

        23       nine years ago for.  It hasn't done anything











                                                             
10673

         1       helpful in terms of tax rates or utility rates

         2       yet, but we're hopeful under this new Governor's

         3       administration that this body will be able to

         4       function effectively and help Long Island with

         5       the horrendous utility rates which we presently

         6       suffer under.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         8       recognizes Senator Connor.

         9                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes.  Mr.

        10       President, would Senator Johnson yield for a

        11       question?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Johnson, do you yield?

        14                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Senator, at this

        19       late hour, maybe I can shorten it.  Do you

        20       regard this as significant legislation?

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Do I think it's

        22       significant?

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Yes.











                                                             
10674

         1                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I would say so,

         2       yes.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.  And

         4       this is a Governor's program bill, if you would

         5       yield to a further question, is it not,

         6       Senator?

         7                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, it is.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.

         9                      Mr. President, on the bill.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Connor, on the bill.

        12                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President,

        13       we have rules in this house as the Majority is

        14       always prone, and properly so in most cases, to

        15       point out to the Minority, but the rules do

        16       provide that the Executive, in submitting

        17       program bills, must have them in by April 4th, I

        18       believe was the date this year.  As of April

        19       4th, the Governor had submitted but six or seven

        20       program bills.

        21                      Now, as Senator Johnson pointed

        22       out, this is significant legislation before us.

        23       This involves the governance of an important











                                                             
10675

         1       Authority.  It involves a change of some of its

         2       membership from an elective to appointive

         3       capacity.  It involves an Authority that has

         4       unlimited authority to go to the market for

         5       debt, literally to borrow 8- or $9 billion.

         6       Some people have thrown that number around.

         7       Indeed, significant legislation, and I look at

         8       the bill and it says at the request of the

         9       Governor, and I look at the date of introduction

        10       and it says June 14th, yesterday.

        11                      I saw a draft of this yesterday

        12       afternoon.  This print didn't exist until last

        13       night, and I'm informed that actually yesterday

        14       in the last 48 hours, some of it as recently as

        15       24 hours ago, the Governor has sent up dozens of

        16       program bills.  Even as thanks to the diligence

        17       of the members of this house and the concern of

        18       our Majority Leader for a timely conclusion, we

        19       are in the closing moments of the -- at least

        20       the most -- the regular and ordinary session of

        21       this year's session of the Senate, and I wonder

        22       -- realistically, a new Governor, I'm not

        23       saying, "Gee, he missed April 4th, we shouldn't











                                                             
10676

         1       consider his proposals that are significant."

         2       I'm the one who said he didn't have enough time

         3       to prepare a budget under our constitutional

         4       system.  I think we ought to build some more

         5       time and we ought to allot a new administration

         6       some time but, really, June 14th to propose a

         7       whole slew of significant program bills,

         8       including this one, to force this Senate in

         9       introducing not just this bill but in

        10       introducing a couple dozen that have not been

        11       brought to the floor today as recently as last

        12       night in contravention of the rules of the

        13       Senate which require the introduction by April

        14       4th?

        15                      This is picky, picky, picky, gee

        16       whiz, so what about the rules, you know, as one

        17       member said, What's the Constitution among

        18       friends?  I guess we can say, What are the

        19       Senate rules among friends?  As long as we have

        20       unanimous consent, I suppose we can do just

        21       about anything in terms of the rules, but the

        22       more important thing is, where is the public?

        23       When does the public get to examine this











                                                             
10677

         1       legislation?  Where is the public's view of it?

         2       Where is the openness in the process that the

         3       Governor promised the public?  Where is the

         4       chance to scrutinize important legislative

         5       proposals?  Why deny our fine committee chairs

         6       in the Senate as well as in the Assembly and the

         7       respective ranking Minority members and the

         8       memberships of those committees a chance to have

         9       public hearings on these program bills, on these

        10       many significant program bills, some of which

        11       the Governor announced two days ago in a press

        12       conference, things like term limits or whatever,

        13       substantial proposals whether you're for them or

        14       against them.

        15                      We need public input.  That's

        16       what's been wrong with the legislative process,

        17       with the governance of this state for some

        18       years, and this tardiness putting forth these

        19       proposals and expecting the Legislature to act

        20       on them -- and I credit the Majority here,

        21       frankly, and I know -- I understand their

        22       loyalty and general support for the philosophy

        23       of the Governor; it's understandable, but I











                                                             
10678

         1       congratulate, frankly, the Majority here for not

         2       bringing out more of these program bills even

         3       though I fault them over bringing out this one.

         4                      The fact is, the public ought to

         5       have a chance to scrutinize these measures, to

         6       question the Governor, to question the

         7       Legislature and to have some say so, and we as

         8       colleagues ought to have more time -- and I

         9       respect, again, the Majority Leader, we're not

        10       here -- this is a speech sometimes you would

        11       give at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning and it's not

        12       happening.  It's only 10:30 at night, but it is

        13       10:30 at night and we're just taking up this

        14       legislation that was only printed up last night

        15       that the public doesn't know about.

        16                      While this was percolating this

        17       afternoon, I heard reports.  I received phone

        18       calls from Long Island.  I heard one Republican

        19       county executive didn't like this legislation,

        20       was against it.  Now, that might have changed in

        21       the last few hours, but certainly this afternoon

        22       he didn't like it.  I heard a member, a present

        23       member of this board, a Democratic long active,











                                                             
10679

         1       I guess a Cuomo appointee to this board, didn't

         2       like this legislation.  That was earlier this

         3       afternoon.

         4                      Why can't we hear from such

         5       people in a public forum instead of phone calls

         6       from county exec's, "I hear this bill is coming

         7       out.  It was printed last night.  I don't like

         8       it."  Why aren't there hearings in Long Island

         9       about this?  We have many fine representatives

        10       here from Long Island.  Regrettably, they're

        11       currently all Republicans in one sense, but fine

        12       representatives, perfectly capable of going out

        13       and soliciting input from their constituents as

        14       they ought to about what Senator Johnson

        15       candidly admits is significant legislation

        16       involving a significant public authority, a

        17       public policy, a public authority that has

        18       literally the financial capacity to borrow

        19       billions of dollars.

        20                      I don't understand this.  I don't

        21       understand this when we were promised with this

        22       new administration openness, accountability,

        23       public input, no more legislating behind closed











                                                             
10680

         1       doors, reflection and consideration for legisla

         2       tion.  I don't understand this Legislature being

         3       treated to the spectacle of program bills which

         4       come out literally the night before the session

         5       closes when, in fact, even for a new

         6       administration, I wouldn't make this complaint

         7       if it was a month late, if we got it on May 4th

         8       or May 10th.  There would at least be some time

         9       to let the press scrutinize this, some time to

        10       let the public comment, some time for me, my

        11       colleagues to make phone calls to people

        12       involved in this issue and say, "What do you

        13       think of this?"  There's no such time.

        14                      In view of that such significant

        15       legislation going from elected representatives

        16       to appointed representatives involving all of

        17       this, I urge my colleagues under the

        18       circumstances to vote no.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        22       act shall take effect July 15th.

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Slow roll call.











                                                             
10681

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are there

         5       five Senators standing?  A request for a slow

         6       roll call has been made.

         7                      The Secretary will call the roll

         8       slowly.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

        10                      SENATOR ABATE:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Babbush.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Bruno.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Party vote in

        15       the negative.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will record the party line votes.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in the

        19       affirmative.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36, nays 23.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      Senator Bruno, that completes the











                                                             
10682

         1       controversial calendar.  Can we have order in

         2       the chamber, please.

         3                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         4       Connor.

         5                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      Upon the assurance of the

         8       Majority Leader that this, indeed, is the close

         9       of session, although we are planning a return to

        10       Albany in two weeks, I would like to take this

        11       opportunity as a rookie Minority Leader to make

        12       some brief traditional closing remarks.

        13                      It has been an interesting

        14       session, in many ways, as I just alluded to.  I

        15       have some disappointments about the process, but

        16       there have certainly been signs of encouragement

        17       as well, encouragement in this house.

        18                      I want to thank the Majority

        19       Leader and the members of the Majority certainly

        20       for their courtesies and Senator Bruno who, if I

        21       may characterize him also as a rookie Majority

        22       Leader, has been refreshing, sometimes

        23       demanding, Senator, but always courteous and











                                                             
10683

         1       always full of new ideas.  I think in many

         2       respects you have kept your promise to open up

         3       things in many important respects, and for that

         4       I thank you.  We are disappointed in others and

         5       we will engage you, from time to time, in the

         6       coming year to point out what we view at least

         7       as some shortcomings.

         8                      I am disappointed that the budget

         9       process which I was very excited to join, given

        10       the promise of the Governor in his campaign in

        11       the State of the State address developed into

        12       weeks of three men and a budget and that is

        13       something we should all address not in a

        14       partisan way but we ought to look at ways to

        15       change the system.

        16                      On a personal level, I certainly

        17       must thank someone who has just done a superb

        18       job, in my opinion, for our side day after day

        19       out here.  I think really except for the last

        20       few bills when I exercised my prerogative to

        21       lead through the calendar, he has been here

        22       every other day of this session and has

        23       certainly discharged his responsibilities with











                                                             
10684

         1       great grace, wit and intellect and much loyalty

         2       and love:  Senator David Paterson, my deputy,

         3       and for that, I thank him.

         4                      (Applause.)

         5                      My thanks also to the assistant

         6       floor leader who has been very helpful both to

         7       me and David, Senator Bill Stachowski, to

         8       someone who we have not seen much of this

         9       session, but I assure you as an elder advisor, I

        10       think I talked today to Joe Galiber three times

        11       and twice yesterday, and so on.  He has been

        12       present with me and us certainly more in spirit

        13       but in communicating to us at least twice a day

        14       getting a call from him saying, What's going on,

        15       and sharing his advice and we do wish him a

        16       speedy return, but I do want to mention the

        17       Ranking Minority member on Finance, Senator

        18       Galiber, and I know he would like to hear from

        19       all of you, cards, notes, letters and calls.

        20                      To the rest of our leadership and

        21       to my colleagues in the Minority, I thank you.

        22       I thanked you in the beginning for your

        23       expressions of trust.  I thank you now for your











                                                             
10685

         1       cooperation which has been superb.  You have

         2       been responsive.  You have worked well as a team

         3       and I have had a whole lot of fun doing this,

         4       and so while we will be back shortly, I also

         5       want to thank my staff, my counsel, Michael

         6       Boxley, John Quirk, our Finance secretary and

         7       Mark Bloom, our secretary to the Minority, Amy

         8       Solomon and many, many other members of my

         9       staff, senior, junior and otherwise who have

        10       taught me very much this session.

        11                      Mr. President, I do thank all

        12       these people.  I thank you for your courtesy and

        13       I wish everyone, I would say an enjoyable

        14       break.  It will be a short one and then we'll

        15       launch a real summer, hopefully in two weeks.

        16                      Thank you very much.

        17                      (Applause.)

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        19       would you recognize Senator Montgomery.

        20                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                      I would ask to be recorded in the

        23       negative on Calendar 1466 with unanimous











                                                             
10686

         1       consent, please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded

         4       in the negative on Calendar Number 1466.

         5                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         6       Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.  Thank you.

         9                      Mr. President, it seemed like

        10       really not too many days ago that we started

        11       this session in January, we were gathered here,

        12       and the months have gone by and we're concluding

        13       on June 15th as we had planned, and I want to

        14       thank everyone that has been involved in the

        15       process in my first term and year here as

        16       Majority Leader and as a rookie, along with my

        17       good friend and colleague, Senator Marty Connor.

        18                      To do what we have done this year

        19       took a lot of support and a lot of help, and I'm

        20       not going to go on at great length, but I have

        21       to say thank you to so many people, and there

        22       are many that I won't mention who also deserve

        23       thanks, because people worked literally through











                                                             
10687

         1       the night seven days a week to make things

         2       happen, and we did a lot of good things this

         3       session, Mr. President.

         4                      We've served the people well.  We

         5       passed a budget; we in this house passed one on

         6       March 31st.  We passed a final budget that

         7       literally turns the direction of this state in a

         8       very positive way by meeting the needs of the

         9       people.  We have a great Governor who has

        10       provided the leadership in the submission of his

        11       budget and being diligent in staying with what

        12       he believed in and helped us through the

        13       process, and I am grateful to Governor Pataki

        14       for his guidance, his leadership on our behalf

        15       and the people of this state, and all the people

        16       that worked very closely with him who have

        17       helped make this evening a successful evening.

        18                      I want to thank people who are

        19       very close to us here.  On my right, Senator

        20       Dean Skelos, our deputy who has spent hours in

        21       this chamber, hours when he has been diligent in

        22       helping make all of the effective things happen

        23       in this chamber and making us look good so,











                                                             
10688

         1       Dean, I thank you very much for that.

         2                      (Applause.)

         3                      And for all of you -- all the

         4       other people in leadership positions that have

         5       participated in the process and really made it

         6       happen, I thank you.

         7                      Abe Lackman who -- the Secretary

         8       to Finance, I would not go through or want to go

         9       through a budget negotiation without Abe there

        10       helping, directing, leading in making something

        11       happen that was important to all of us here in

        12       the state.  So, Abe, thank you.  I wouldn't want

        13       to count the hours and the days that he spent

        14       along with his staff who stayed with him -- many

        15       of the men in the room now, and I thank you all

        16       for that.

        17                      (Applause.)

        18                      And the chair of the Finance

        19       Committee, Senator Ron Stafford, who has been a

        20       real partner in helping us with all of the

        21       things that we've had to do and, Ron, thank you

        22       for being a good friend.

        23                      (Applause.)











                                                             
10689

         1                      Tim Collins and Dave Dudley, I

         2       can't recount all the good things that they have

         3       done and all of us recognize what it takes, I

         4       believe, to get a calendar, a live list, believe

         5       it or not, a day before session, I think

         6       continually, constantly getting the Rules

         7       reports out, maybe for the first time in my 19

         8       years that I saw that happen, happen so well,

         9       and other than a little printing problem we had,

        10       things were flawless.

        11                      This evening we were slowed down

        12       for about 45 minutes or an hour for truly

        13       mechanical difficulties, but I want to say thank

        14       you to both of you for all of the time, all of

        15       the effort that you've spent to help get us here

        16       tonight.  I want to applaud them.

        17                      (Applause.)

        18                      My chief of staff, Steve Boggess,

        19       I believe is here in the chamber, and Steve has

        20       been with me for more years than either one of

        21       us care to remember.  I keep aging, he gets

        22       younger.  Something is wrong, but thank you,

        23       Steve, for being there and being here tonight,











                                                             
10690

         1       and Pat Stackrow, my executive assistant, and

         2       all of the others that helped me do the job that

         3       we've had to do this year and I really couldn't

         4       function without these good people around me.

         5                      John McArdle, who handles the

         6       office of communications and who is as diligent

         7       as any individual can be, and Marsha White, my

         8       press secretary who this year took on

         9       responsibilities not knowing what she or John

        10       were getting into in trying to make me look good

        11       and sound good.  Most of the time they did all

        12       right, sometimes not so good.

        13                      (Applause.)

        14                      We have a Minority Leader in the

        15       Assembly, "Rap" Rappleyea who has really been a

        16       leader to me and has been extremely helpful, and

        17       if "Rap" hears us, I just want to say a sincere

        18       thank you to him.

        19                      And there's so many other people

        20       that are around me and I know that as soon as I

        21       sit down, I will realize that I have neglected

        22       to mention them.  I won't be able to sleep

        23       tonight, we'll have to convene again tomorrow so











                                                             
10691

         1       I can finish.

         2                      Senator Marty Connor, our

         3       Minority Leader, has been a very worthy member

         4       of this house and of the Minority and has

         5       handled himself in all of the ways that he

         6       should in representing his side of the aisle and

         7       his constituency and has been as cooperative as

         8       he could be and not so cooperative at

         9       appropriate times, and I recognize the necessity

        10       of that, but we have had an early process and,

        11       you're right with Senator Dave Paterson who has

        12       been in the chamber who helped make it work and

        13       make it happen and I thank you very, very much,

        14       because we really couldn't have the process

        15       orderly or disorderly at times without your

        16       participation in the process, because it takes

        17       both sides of the aisle to make anything happen

        18       that is really worth making happen.  So thank

        19       you for your participation most of the time.

        20                      And the Journal clerks work

        21       through the night and I thank you for that and

        22       Steve Sloan, our Sergeant-at-Arms, our pages

        23       that are here who just make it all happen around











                                                             
10692

         1       here, and those of us that work here and

         2       deliberate here take a lot of things for

         3       granted.  I know I do and I did, and I just want

         4       to at this moment recognize that none of this

         5       happens by itself.  It takes all of the people

         6       that are around us to help us do what we get

         7       done, and I thank them for that.

         8                      We did do a lot of good things.

         9       I'm not going to go through them.  We adopted a

        10       budget that will make us all proud as we go out

        11       in our constituency.  For the first time in 51

        12       years, we cut state spending by 364 million or

        13       so.  We did a death penalty.  We did a $3.6

        14       billion tax package, faced a $5 billion deficit

        15       and we're able to get a budget together.  We did

        16       welfare reform.  We truly did change the

        17       direction of this state, and we all in this

        18       chamber can be proud.

        19                      We are concluding our regular

        20       session and we will reconvene on the 27th,

        21       hopefully to adjourn on the 29th.  In the

        22       interim, we will have a selective calendar that

        23       we will put together.  We will not have an open











                                                             
10693

         1       calendar, so this closes our regular session,

         2       and I'm proud to have served with you through

         3       this first session and proud of the fact that

         4       we're able to, with you and without you we

         5       couldn't have done it.  Started on time.  Had no

         6       all-night sessions, and I'll stop talking so we

         7       don't do this one all night, but we did it, and

         8       a lot of people were skeptical in that we

         9       couldn't do it, but working together

        10       cooperatively we did it, and I think we can all

        11       be proud of that.

        12                      I am proud of it, proud of you

        13       and the participation that we've had.  This has

        14       been a team and all of us are on that team,

        15       everyone.

        16                      So I thank you.

        17                      And now my counsels will tell me

        18       what I forgot.  I would like to at this time,

        19       Mr. President, recommit all the calendar bills

        20       to the Committee on Rules.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, all bills will be recommitted to the

        23       Committee on Rules.











                                                             
10694

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And I -- before I

         2       move for adjournment, I want to also recognize

         3       our Lieutenant Governor who was here earlier and

         4       couldn't be here now and thank her publicly for

         5       her good work in this chamber and outside of

         6       this chamber on behalf of the Senate and all of

         7       the people of this state.

         8                      And, Mr. President, there being

         9       no further business to come before this house, I

        10       move that we adjourn until 10:00 a.m. on June

        11       27th, intervening days to be legislative days.

        12                      Thank you, and thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

        16       Tuesday, June 27th, at 10:00 a.m.

        17                      (Applause.)

        18                      (Whereupon, at 10:55 p.m., the

        19       Senate adjourned.)

        20

        21

        22

        23