Regular Session - February 6, 1996
1025
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 February 6, 1996
10 3:01 p.m.
11
12
13 REGULAR SESSION
14
15
16
17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
19
20
21
22
23
1026
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 come to order. Would everyone please rise and
4 join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
5 (Whereupon, the Senate and those
6 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to
7 the Flag.)
8 May we bow our heads in a moment
9 of silence.
10 (Whereupon, there was a moment of
11 silence.)
12 The reading of the Journal,
13 please.
14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
15 Monday, February 5th. The Senate met pursuant
16 to adjournment. Prayer by the Reverend Father
17 Peter G. Young, Blessed Sacrament Church, Bolton
18 Landing. The Journal of Saturday, February 3rd,
19 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
20 adjourned.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Without
22 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
23 Senator Skelos.
1027
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. Madam
2 President, in consultation with Senator
3 Paterson, we would make an observation that
4 perhaps both sides of the Senate chamber are a
5 little bit light and if we could encourage our
6 members both Republicans and Democrats to come
7 on over and join us in session, we would
8 appreciate it.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Presentation of
10 petitions.
11 Messages from the Assembly.
12 Messages from the Governor.
13 Reports of standing committees.
14 The Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon,
16 from the Committee on Health, reports the
17 following bills:
18 Senate Print 413, by Senator
19 Skelos, an act to amend the Public Health Law
20 and the Correction Law, in relation to requiring
21 certain applicants;
22 1504, by Senator LaValle, an act
23 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
1028
1 creating a tumor registry;
2 5395A, by Senator Velella, an act
3 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
4 testing of pregnant women for the human
5 immunodeficiency virus.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Without
7 objection.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright,
9 from the Committee on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse,
10 reports:
11 Senate Print 327, by Senator
12 Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
13 Law, in relation to requiring suspension and
14 revocation;
15 355, by Senator Levy, an act in
16 relation to requiring the Department of Motor
17 Vehicles to compile information;
18 364, by Senator Levy, an act to
19 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
20 to imposing an additional fine and imprisonment;
21 371, by Senator Levy, an act to
22 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
23 to civil penalties;
1029
1 380, by Senator Levy, an act to
2 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
3 to making it a felony to operate a school bus
4 while under the influence of alcohol or drugs;
5 384D, by Senator Levy, an act to
6 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
7 to requiring school bus and other motor vehicle
8 drivers involved in personal injury accidents.
9 Senator Levy, from the Committee
10 on Transportation, reports the following:
11 619, by Senator Stafford, an act
12 to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
13 prohibiting the abandonment of Crane Pond Road;
14 4222, by Senator Larkin, an act
15 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
16 relation to signs to be utilized;
17 5724, by Senator Libous, an act
18 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
19 relation to parking permits;
20 5804, by Senator Bruno, an act to
21 amend the Highway Law, in relation to
22 designating a portion of the state highway
23 system.
1030
1 Senator Hoblock, from the
2 Committee on Veterans and Military Affairs,
3 reports:
4 Senate Print 1265, by Senator
5 Hannon, an act to amend the Environmental
6 Conservation Law, in relation to providing
7 hunting and fishing licenses;
8 1739, by Senator Sears, an act to
9 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
10 to eliminating the annual service charge;
11 3407, by Senator Hoblock, an act
12 to amend the Military Law, in relation to
13 providing legal authority for obtaining
14 background checks;
15 3555, by Senator Hoblock, an act
16 to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to
17 authorizing a preference for veterans;
18 3559A, by Senator Hoblock, an act
19 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
20 relation to special distinctive license plates;
21 3659A, by Senator Hoblock, an act
22 to amend the Military Law, in relation to
23 authorizing the Governor to present the
1031
1 Conspicuous Service Cross to certain persons;
2 3961A, by Senator Cook, an act to
3 amend the Insurance Law, in relation to motor
4 vehicle insurance coverage;
5 5835, by Senator Hoblock, an act
6 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
7 requiring that county directors of veterans
8 services agencies be veterans.
9 Senator Volker, from the
10 Committee on Codes, reports:
11 Senate Print 1728, by Senator
12 Johnson, an act to amend the Penal Law, in
13 relation to chemical agents;
14 2352, by Senator Hoblock, an act
15 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
16 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled
17 substances;
18 3693, by Senator Volker, an act
19 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in
20 relation to compensation;
21 3696, by Senator Volker, an act
22 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in
23 relation to a motion for a preliminary
1032
1 injunction;
2 3822, by Senator Volker, an act
3 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
4 to fingerprinting persons;
5 3947, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
6 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
7 to the extension of criminal victims rights;
8 5173A, by Senator Hoblock, an act
9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the
10 Penal Law, in relation to definition of juvenile
11 offender;
12 5211, by Senator Marcellino, an
13 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
14 relation to anonymous injuries;
15 5264, by Senator Padavan, an act
16 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
17 possession of gambling devices;
18 5492, by Senator Volker, an act
19 to enact a Child Sex Abuse Reform Act and to
20 amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
21 5727, by Senator Rath, an act to
22 amend the Penal Law, in relation to repeat
23 offender status;
1033
1 5741, by Senator Volker, an act
2 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
3 to a defendant's right.
4 Senator Leibell, from the
5 Committee on Housing and Community Development,
6 reports:
7 Senate Print 3343, by Senator
8 Leibell, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
9 Law;
10 3480, by Senator Leibell, an act
11 to amend the Administrative Code of the City of
12 New York and the Emergency Tenant Protection
13 Acts of 1974;
14 3535, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
15 amend the Executive Law, in relation to
16 exempting cultural educational facilities;
17 3540, by Senator Hannon, an act
18 to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act of
19 1974 and the Administrative Code of the City of
20 New York.
21 All bills -- excuse me.
22 Senator Present, from the
23 Committee on Economic Development and Small
1034
1 Business, reports:
2 Senate Print 2311, by Senator
3 Present, an act to amend the Economic
4 Development Law, in relation to directing a
5 rural agribusiness study;
6 2916, by Senator Saland, an act
7 to amend the Administrative Procedure Act, in
8 relation to including the Workers' Compensation
9 Board;
10 3173, by Senator LaValle, an act
11 to amend the Economic Development Law, in
12 relation to establishing an enviromarket
13 advisory committee.
14 All bills ordered directly for
15 third reading.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Without
17 objection, all bills directly to third reading.
18 Reports of select committees.
19 Communications and reports from
20 state officers.
21 Motions and resolution.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
1035
1 at this time may we please adopt the Resolution
2 Calendar.
3 THE PRESIDENT: All those in
4 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,
5 signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (There was no response.)
9 The Resolution Calendar is
10 adopted.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time, if
12 we could take -
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully.
14 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Madam
15 President. On behalf of Senator Goodman, please
16 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 56.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
18 starred.
19 Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
21 at this time, may we please have the
22 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
1036
1 will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 58, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5597A,
4 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and Assembly
5 proposing amendments to Article III of the
6 Constitution.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 59, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5598A, an act
11 to amend the Legislative Law, the State Finance
12 Law and the Executive Law, in relation to
13 estimates of state revenues.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside,
16 please.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 81, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 2010A, an act
19 to amend the General Municipal Law, Chapter 708
20 of the Laws of 1992 amending the General
21 Municipal Law, and other laws relating to the
22 temporary investment of monies.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
1037
1 section, please.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
8 passed.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
10 at this time, could we have the Calendar Numbers
11 58 and 59 read for the purposes of Senator
12 Leichter voting.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
14 will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 58, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5597A,
17 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and
18 Assembly, proposing amendments to Article III of
19 the Constitution.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll
21 please.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 Senator Leichter, how do you
1038
1 vote?
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Negative.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Withdraw the
4 roll call.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Withdraw the roll
6 call.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 59, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5598A, an act
9 to amend the Legislative Law, the State Finance
10 Law, and the Executive Law.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
12 section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll,
16 please.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 Senator Leichter, how do you
19 vote?
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Withdraw the
22 roll call, please.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Withdraw the roll
1039
1 call. The bill is laid aside.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Please withdraw
3 the roll call.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
5 will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 96, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5753, an
8 act to amend Chapter 694 of the Laws of 1995,
9 amending the General Business Law, the Public
10 Health Law and the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
12 section, please.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
19 passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 107, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3240A, an
22 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
23 relation to increasing the penalty for
1040
1 obstructing access to a fire vehicle.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
3 section, please.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
5 act shall take effect on the 1st day of
6 November.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
10 THE PRESIDENT: This bill is
11 passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 134, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 614, an
14 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
15 in relation to nonhazardous municipal landfill
16 closure.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
18 section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
1041
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 146, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2826A, an act
5 to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to
6 payment of expenses in attorney disciplinary
7 proceedings.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect in 90 days.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 148, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5825, an
20 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to
21 the seal of Livingston County.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
23 last section.
1042
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the 1st day of January.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 149, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 747, an act
11 to amend the Town Law and the General Municipal
12 Law, in relation to the deadline for the annual
13 audit to be completed.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
23 is passed.
1043
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 150, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1218, an
3 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
4 relation to municipal contingency and tax
5 stabilization reserve funds.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 151, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1280, an act
18 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
19 to the alternative methods of performance of
20 regulatory mandates.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Which bill is
22 this?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Calendar
1044
1 151.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Senator?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Rath's bill.
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 154, by Senator Seward.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Lay the
18 bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 156, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5757, an
21 act to confirm the existence and boundaries of
22 the Craryville Fire District in the Towns of
23 Taghkanic, Copake, Claverack and Hillsdale,
1045
1 Columbia County.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 178, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5972, an
14 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
15 providing that certain policies which provide
16 coverage for hospital, surgical or medical care
17 include coverage for services performed.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
23 roll.
1046
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
4 is passed.
5 Senator Skelos, that completes
6 the noncontroversial calendar.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
8 at this time, I believe there is a report from
9 the Finance Committee. I ask that it be read.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There is
11 a report from the Finance Committee.
12 Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
14 from the Committee on Finance, offers the
15 following nomination:
16 Member of the State Athletic
17 Commission, Floyd Patterson of New Paltz.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
19 Stafford.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
21 President, before I yield to my close friend,
22 Senator Cook, who is so fortunate to have the
23 Pattersons live in his Senate District, I would
1047
1 only point out the magnificent job the Champ did
2 today during the Finance meeting.
3 He talked about his sport and he
4 also talked about physical fitness, and he made
5 as good a statement as I have ever heard made at
6 any Finance Committee meeting.
7 As I mentioned today, Mr.
8 President, whether someone is part of history or
9 not often is thought of whether you can remember
10 when something happened and where you were when
11 it happened, whether it's a President being
12 assassinated, whether it's any event here in our
13 country or world; but I remember where I was on
14 June 26, 1959, when there was a boxing match in
15 Yankee Stadium. I was at a pre -- what do you
16 call it when you have the -- rehearsal. I was
17 at the rehearsal dinner at a wedding in
18 Kingston. As a matter of fact, we listened to
19 the fight.
20 I also know where I was on June
21 20, 1960, when Floyd Patterson, in the Polo
22 Grounds, regained the title -- the World
23 Heavyweight title -- the only champion to do
1048
1 that; and also I do remember where I was on
2 March 13, 1961, when the Champ fought that
3 individual -- we're not going to mention his
4 name -- and retained the heavyweight title.
5 I think that shows, Madam
6 President, Floyd Patterson is a great citizen of
7 our state. He has set an example, and we are so
8 fortunate -- I compliment the Governor -- on his
9 being a member of the Athletic Commission.
10 And I apologize. I yield to
11 Senator Cook.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
13 Cook.
14 SENATOR COOK: Madam President,
15 we have all used the phrase we're introducing
16 someone who needs no introduction, but today
17 that really -- that phrase really fits because
18 certainly Floyd Patterson is someone who is far
19 better known than anyone in this chamber.
20 Those of us who have served here
21 through the years have admired his -- what he
22 has done in the sports arena, but we have also
23 admired what he has done in the public arena,
1049
1 and that really is where it's all at in this
2 appointment.
3 I think it's significant that
4 Floyd Patterson is one of those people whose
5 qualifications are apparent to people regardless
6 of party lines. He's been appointed by both Re
7 publican and Democrat Governors to the Athletic
8 Commission. Now, that certainly indicates that
9 people recognize his high qualities, but I think
10 among the things that impresses me the most
11 about him is the humanitarian work that he has
12 done, visiting the field hospitals in Vietnam
13 during the war in 1967, working with young
14 people in the community, helping share his
15 knowledge not just of boxing but of relation
16 ships with other human beings, of sportsmanship,
17 of personal dedication, of those qualities that
18 makes someone a good human being, and he's been
19 able to communicate with young people in ways
20 that other people would not have been able to do
21 simply because of who he is, and that's been
22 very important.
23 As a guest speaker, he's been in
1050
1 great demand because, when he says something, he
2 says it from experience and from the heart.
3 It's not something that is an intellectual
4 exercise. It's something that he knows to be
5 true and something that people listen to him and
6 believe because they know that he is saying it
7 from the heart.
8 He also has been a supporter and
9 a key player in support of many of the founda
10 tions and organizations that deal with disease
11 and with the hardships of human beings. He's
12 been involved in blood drives and the American
13 Cancer Society, Child Find, the Diabetes Founda
14 tion, the Special Olympics where he was
15 particularly valuable, in the American Mobiliza
16 tion to End Narcotics, and, of course, in his
17 own -- what is named for him, anyway, the Floyd
18 Patterson Children's Fund.
19 He is someone who exemplifies the
20 best in America, someone who has given to the
21 country far more than he has received, someone
22 we can be proud of not just because of what he
23 does but because of who he is.
1051
1 And, so I am very, very pleased
2 and proud to second the nomination of Floyd
3 Patterson for the Athletic Commission.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
5 you, Senator Cook.
6 Senator DeFrancisco.
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I rise also
8 in support of the nomination. I met Floyd
9 Patterson for the first time last year when he
10 came through our committee, and it seemed like I
11 knew him all my life. He is an individual with
12 such character and charisma and true feelings
13 that you know the man is sincere about
14 everything he does.
15 I think that the most impressive
16 thing is that he has continued to work with
17 youth in his community, and it's so important
18 these days that people have sports heroes and
19 true heroes that are giving rather than taking
20 from society, and it's just fantastic that the
21 Governor could find such a person of character
22 and integrity and sincerity to be placed in this
23 particular position.
1052
1 Mr. Patterson's nomination went
2 through our committee yesterday without his
3 appearance. Everyone mentioned who was present
4 that there's no need for him to reappear. He
5 appeared last year, and he made certain that
6 everyone knew that this was the right choice,
7 and he unanimously passed my committee
8 yesterday, the Tourism, Recreation and Sports
9 Development Committee.
10 I am pleased to rise in support
11 of his nomination, and I'm certain that the vote
12 today will be unanimous.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
14 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
15 Senator Goodman.
16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Madam
17 President, I rise with great enthusiasm to
18 second this nomination, because Floyd Patterson
19 was not just a champion in the ring but has been
20 a champion all the rest of his life out of the
21 ring.
22 He is a particularly outstanding
23 role model for our youth, and I'm proud to say
1053
1 that I have known him for a number of years
2 during which time he has always been on the side
3 of every possible reform both of boxing and
4 other areas, and there's one in particular to
5 which I would like to refer.
6 It is called ultimate fighting.
7 Ultimate fighting is a new sports disease, if
8 you will, that is overtaking our American
9 countryside and which represents the lowest form
10 of athletic contest between two human beings.
11 Ultimate fighting consists of two
12 people who go at one another with no holds
13 barred in an octagonal-shaped ring, using any
14 available weapon in their human anatomy to try
15 to cripple, maim and destroy their opponent.
16 There are no time regulations in this sport.
17 There's nothing in this sport which prevents
18 someone from using knees or elbows to the eyes
19 or other vital parts of human beings.
20 If you have occasion to
21 observe -- and I hope you never will -- one of
22 these bouts, which are now being popularly
23 presented in tapes through our local video
1054
1 stores, you will see the worst kind of human
2 mayhem in the ring. People are literally beaten
3 to a pulp. They are not removed from the ring
4 by any authority until they are absolutely
5 incapable of either human motion or in the
6 eventuality that they're literally on the verge
7 of being choked to death.
8 When called upon to take a
9 position on this, our champion unequivocally
10 opposed it and is doing everything within his
11 power as the leading authority on athletic
12 contestants meeting one another in combat to try
13 to bar this sport from the state of New York
14 and, as you probably are aware, there is a bill
15 before the Legislature, strongly backed by the
16 Governor and the Champion, which will seek to
17 bar from New York State forever this outrageous
18 form that goes under the masquerade of a sport.
19 It is something which is
20 unacceptable, animalistic, inhuman and creates
21 the worse possible kind of role model for our
22 youth. It must be banned.
23 I'm delighted to second this
1055
1 nomination with the strong conviction that we
2 have on our side someone who represents the
3 highest values in boxing which, properly
4 regulated, is a sport that's generally accepted
5 and can find keys to the ghetto gate for the
6 underprivileged and many other advantages, but
7 certainly not for ultimate fighting which
8 represents the lowest form of degraded behavior.
9 Madam President, with enthusiasm,
10 again, I second the nomination of Champ
11 Paterson.
12 Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
14 you, Senator Goodman.
15 The next person is Senator
16 Larkin.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Madam
18 President. I rise with honor to second the
19 nomination of Floyd Patterson.
20 We have a young man who came out
21 of the New York environs. He went on to be in
22 the Olympics, and then he went on to be our
23 champion. Those of you who are as old as Jess
1056
1 Present would remember that fight in Yankee
2 Stadium with Johannson.
3 I happened to have the privilege
4 about a week ago to see a replay of that and,
5 when I saw the Champ hit him, I was just
6 thankful to God that I was watching it, not
7 being the recipient of that punch.
8 But the punch this individual
9 plays in our everyday life with our youth is
10 very important, because he tries to convey to
11 them that there is something else out there
12 besides trouble. In his own community, he has
13 brought young people together to tell them about
14 the finer things in life and how they achieve
15 them and how they achieve them in a positive
16 manner and what they should be doing to become a
17 role model themselves.
18 I know he is a constituent of
19 Senator Cook's, but my daughter lives not too
20 far from him and the things that she tells of
21 his efforts on behalf of young people in the
22 church and in the school and in the community,
23 there is no one too rich and no one too poor
1057
1 that he is afraid to share something with, and
2 he shares it with the children with the attitude
3 of "Come on. Look in the mirror. Make yourself
4 proud. Make somebody else proud."
5 You know, boxing in New York has
6 fallen to its lowest level. The Governor had
7 said when he made this nomination he wanted to
8 bring boxing back to New York to be something
9 positive. Boxing will have a real place in New
10 York with Floyd Patterson at the head.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
12 you, Senator Larkin.
13 Senator Hoffmann.
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I rise with
15 great pleasure to second the nomination of Floyd
16 Patterson. He is no stranger to the 48th Senate
17 District, having traveled many times to visit
18 the International Boxing Hall of Fame in
19 Canastota, New York, where he attends regular
20 community events as well as greeting the public
21 when it comes from all over the world to study
22 and herald the great successes of many boxers
23 and to encourage young athletes in training.
1058
1 One of the things that Floyd
2 Patterson has demonstrated quite clearly in his
3 own life and tries to impart to young people is
4 that enormous sense of self-discipline. Now,
5 Floyd Patterson is able to communicate this not
6 just in terms of boxing and not just in terms of
7 the young men who study the sport, but he speaks
8 to young people in general about the importance
9 of maintaining self-discipline, control and
10 having a clear vision for the future in one's
11 life.
12 He and his wife have both made a
13 personal crusade of helping young people to meet
14 the challenges, whether they are drugs, whether
15 they are crime, whether they are lack of
16 opportunity, poverty, or a general frustration
17 and malaise that seems to beset so many young
18 people today. Floyd Patterson has demonstrated
19 over and over again that he knows young people
20 can rise to a challenge if somebody just finds
21 the right way to approach them and tries with
22 some tenderness to reach that spirit inside that
23 they have not kindled themselves.
1059
1 So I am thrilled that he has
2 agreed to accept this personal challenge and
3 that he and Mrs. Patterson are willing to
4 continue to meet the young people around the
5 state of New York. I would remind my friends
6 that it is more than a boxing commission. It is
7 an athletic commission. It does meet the needs
8 of young men and young women in this state.
9 As a personal example, I think we
10 could find none more sterling and none of a
11 broader background and base than Mr. Floyd
12 Patterson, so I'm very privileged to be able to
13 nominate an honorary citizen of the 48th Senate
14 District and a good friend of ours, along with
15 his wife, who is with us today.
16 Thank you, Madam President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
18 you, Senator Hoffmann.
19 Senator Paterson.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
21 Madam President.
22 It is with distinction, on behalf
23 of the Minority Leader, Senator Connor, that we
1060
1 congratulate the Governor on this appointment of
2 Floyd Patterson to the State Athletic
3 Commission.
4 We did this last year, and there
5 were a number of warm tributes, and it's even a
6 further tribute to the character of this
7 individual that people saw fit to get up again
8 because it is an issue that needs to be stated
9 and restated when a person has gone so far in so
10 many ways to affect the lives of other people:
11 Floyd Patterson's work with youth, Floyd
12 Patterson's influence on adults, and his
13 tremendous record as a boxer and as a citizen of
14 this state and one that bears a great deal of
15 admiration and would be the catalyst for his
16 appointment today.
17 I just want Senator Stafford to
18 know that I know where I was in June of 1968
19 when Floyd Patterson fought Jerry Quarry, in my
20 opinion the worst decision that I had ever seen
21 in a boxing match until October 1969, when, in
22 my opinion, Floyd Patterson should have won the
23 title back a third time when, in my opinion, he
1061
1 defeated Jimmy Ellis. But I guess I wasn't a
2 good boxing referee, watching television.
3 In both of those fights what I
4 remembered so well last year and what I remember
5 today was the type of discipline and the type of
6 character that Senator Hoffmann referred to
7 displayed by Floyd Patterson when it was
8 announced that he lost those fights. It was a
9 tremendous inspiration to me as a young person
10 at that time about the caliber of an individual,
11 whether they face victory or defeat.
12 And it is with that memory that
13 we lend our support to this nomination and are
14 assured that he will continue his fine service
15 to the citizens of the State of New York.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
17 you, Senator Paterson.
18 Senator Dollinger.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
20 Madam President.
21 I rise not to simply echo the
22 thoughts of my colleagues about the past
23 accomplishments of Floyd Patterson but to talk
1062
1 about his accomplishments yet to come.
2 I asked him during the course of
3 the Finance Committee deliberations about the
4 relationship between the fighters and the fight
5 enterprise, and I was impressed with his
6 compassion when he talked about the need to make
7 sure that the athletes who give of themselves in
8 the ring, who bring consumer dollars to Madison
9 Square Garden -- really, the fight capital of
10 the world.
11 It seems to me he expressed a
12 firm conviction that he would work in this
13 position to improve the fight game in New York
14 and to protect those athletes from exploitation
15 by their agents or by others.
16 Champ, I can only tell you that I
17 think everyone in this room is behind you. Give
18 those avaricious agents -- with hairdos and
19 handshakes -- give them a message from the
20 people of the State of New York that when you
21 take our consumer dollars, we want to make sure
22 that the athletes who give of themselves to
23 entertain consumers in New York will find a
1063
1 ready friend in the State Athletic Commission to
2 protect them from exploitation.
3 I've heard too many stories about
4 fighters who have gotten through the fight game
5 left penniless, oftentimes relying on public
6 assistance, suffering from other diseases, and
7 it seems to me that the time to end that has
8 come.
9 Champ, give them the one, two,
10 and let's bring back respectability and nobility
11 to this profession.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
13 Markowitz.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator Markowitz left the
16 chamber?
17 Senator Markowitz.
18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you
19 very, very much.
20 First off, I want to commend the
21 Governor. We're quick to disagree when we feel
22 he's wrong, but this appointment, it's a
23 knockout.
1064
1 So I want to congratulate the
2 Governor. I know this will be a superb
3 appointment, and I want to share with Senator
4 Goodman just a few moments, and I'm delighted
5 that ultimate boxing, fighting, or whatever they
6 call this violent sport, that our commissioner
7 will vehemently ensure that it will not be
8 introduced in New York State.
9 I can tell you that the promoters
10 of this vicious sport attempted to have their
11 first "ultimate fighting duel," you might say,
12 in the heart of my Senatorial District. The
13 last thing our society needs, in my opinion, is
14 another outlet for the expression of violence,
15 which is what that sport that they call a sport
16 would have brought to the citizens of New York
17 City and New York State.
18 So I commend Mr. Patterson. I
19 know that he will be among the best appointments
20 that Governor Pataki will ever make.
21 Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
23 you, Senator Markowitz.
1065
1 Senator Waldon.
2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
3 much, Madam President.
4 I grew up in Brooklyn, Halsey
5 Street between Reed and Patchen, Patchen Avenue
6 between Quickham and Jefferson. I used to go
7 down to Bainbridge Street, play stickball with
8 guys like D. D. Thompson, Clifton and Farrell
9 Daley, the DeMeyer brothers, and that whole host
10 -- Donny Carrington -- whole host of guys who
11 Father Manning had an influence upon at Holy
12 Rosary, and there was a guy who some of us after
13 he began to move up in the boxing world imagined
14 and fantasized had he crossed our paths when we
15 were playing Ring O'Levio, kick the can and all
16 those other games that poor kids in Brooklyn
17 played because they had not much else to play
18 with. We had no uniforms. We had no baseball.
19 We had no real glove.
20 We recognized, though, when Floyd
21 Patterson rose to the pinnacle of success in the
22 fight game as the heavyweight champion that even
23 though many of our IQs were not very high, we
1066
1 were very smart not to have challenged him at
2 that time on the streets of Brooklyn.
3 I would like to say that I admire
4 this man even though we aren't really intimates
5 or friends because he is an example of someone
6 who came from the ghetto but the ghetto is not
7 necessarily in him. He is a world renowned
8 personality. He is a person who is respected
9 throughout the world in terms of his accomplish
10 ments but of the spirit, as well, that he brings
11 to the fight game.
12 I think that Governor Pataki has
13 made a wise decision in turning the reins of the
14 New York State Athletic Commission over again
15 into the hands of Floyd Patterson, and I would
16 like to say that to he and his wife, I wish you
17 great success this time, Champ, and this time
18 I'm here in the Senate to praise and applaud a
19 brother from Brooklyn, one of the guys from
20 Bed-Stuy, one of the guys whose name is
21 emblazoned across the universe in terms of the
22 fight game, and through your success, the rest
23 of us who came from those cold water flats with
1067
1 the rats and the roaches also had a chance to be
2 somebody.
3 Thanks a lot, Floyd, for all
4 you've done for everyone.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Do any
6 other members wish to speak?
7 (There was no response.)
8 If not, the question is on the
9 confirmation of Floyd Patterson as a member of
10 the State Athletic Commission.
11 All in favor, signify by saying
12 aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 Opposed, nay.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Floyd Patterson is hereby
17 confirmed as member and chairman of the State
18 Athletic Commission.
19 (Standing ovation)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Chairman
21 Patterson, before I could get the words out of
22 my mouth to congratulate you on behalf of the
23 New York State Senate, my colleagues rose to
1068
1 greet you in an appropriate way.
2 And, again, thank you for all
3 you've done for all of the children of the State
4 of New York and, indeed, throughout this great
5 country, and we look forward to your exemplary
6 service again; and thank you and Mrs. Patterson
7 for being with us here today.
8 MR. PATTERSON: Thank you. God
9 bless you all for all the beautiful words. I
10 will never forget it for as long as I live.
11 Thank you.
12 (Applause)
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
15 recognize Senator Larkin.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
17 Larkin.
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Madam President,
19 we have a Resolution 2319, honoring Larry Moses
20 from the town of Newburgh, who has just been
21 elected as the National Commander of the
22 American Ex-Prisoners of War, on the occasion of
23 his selection.
1069
1 Mr. Moses was a prisoner of war
2 for 24 months.
3 We would like to open it up so
4 that we in this chamber can all honor a
5 distinguished American.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Those Senators
7 interested in sponsoring the resolution, if they
8 could so inform the desk.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
10 you, Senator Skelos. There are a number of
11 people raising their hands.
12 The resolution will be presented
13 with all unless there are objections, Senator
14 Skelos?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: With the consent
16 of the Minority, we can put everybody on the
17 resolution. If they do not wish to sponsor the
18 resolution, if they could inform the desk.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There
20 will be fewer, yes, who would prefer not to be
21 on than doing it the other way. Thank you for
22 your guidance in that, Senator Skelos.
23 All in favor of the resolution,
1070
1 aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 Opposed.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The resolution is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: At this time, if
8 we could take up the controversial calendar, and
9 if we could start with Senator Seward's bill,
10 Calendar Number 154.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Secretary
12 will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 154, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3377A, an
15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
16 relation to conflict of interest.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
18 Paterson, did you need an explanation?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
21 Explanation. Senator Seward.
22 SENATOR SEWARD: This is a bill
23 which passed this house last year and this deals
1071
1 with the issue of updating some of the conflict
2 of interest provisions in the General Municipal
3 Law.
4 Just as a matter of background,
5 Section 801 of the General Municipal Law is a
6 blanket prohibition against the conflict of
7 interest for municipal officers and employees,
8 and this bill does not address this particular
9 section, but it does move on to address Section
10 802, which sets forth numerous exceptions to the
11 prohibition including an exemption of up to $100
12 per year for contracts in which the officer may
13 be involved in terms of having an interest.
14 Now, the legislation before us
15 does two things.
16 Number one, it raises the
17 exemption from $100 per year to $750 per year
18 and that's been -- has not been addressed since
19 1964. So it's merely updating that number.
20 And the second item in the bill
21 is that for non-salaried municipal board members
22 in rural counties only, under 200,000, it allows
23 purchases in the aggregate of up to $5,000 a
1072
1 year, where the board member abstains and the
2 resolution for purchases is unanimous. It also
3 requires that under those conditions, obviously,
4 the standard procurement procedures must be
5 followed. In other words, it must be the lowest
6 bid available.
7 So the rationale, of course, is
8 that in the rural areas, local providers,
9 sometimes the only provider, may very well be on
10 these nonsalaried municipal boards, and this has
11 been a problem in some of our rural areas. I
12 have had a problem in my own area, and we're
13 attempting to deal with this in some reasonable,
14 responsible, ethical way, a very limited way.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
18 much, Madam President.
19 If the Senator would yield for a
20 question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator?
22 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, line
1073
1 9 of the bill, which discusses the aggregate of
2 $5,000 over the period of a year, a year that
3 may be involved in the amount of money that is
4 utilized in contracts, is this something that is
5 new legislation or in 1964, when the $100 limit
6 was set in Section 801 of the General Municipal
7 Law? What I'm missing is whether or not this is
8 something new or are you updating this amount?
9 SENATOR SEWARD: This procedure
10 and the stipulations outlined in the bill for up
11 to the 5,000 for the nonsalaried board members
12 that are elected is -- this whole process is a
13 new addition to that Section 802.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
15 much.
16 Through you, Madam President.
17 Senator Seward, I don't have a problem with
18 Section 801. If the amount was $100 in 1964 and
19 we're simply adjusting for inflation, $750 might
20 be high, based on that standard, but I don't
21 really have a problem with that.
22 I do have a problem with what
23 we're now doing that applies to Section 802,
1074
1 which is the aggregate of $5,000. It seems to
2 me that a great deal of business can be
3 conducted by the nonsalaried board member in
4 rural counties, to such an extent that even if
5 they abstain on the resolution that it would be
6 problematic and certainly within line with what
7 conflict of interest laws exist.
8 Perhaps you might want to explain
9 to me and the other members how you think that
10 that isn't the case.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
12 Seward.
13 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Madam
14 President, Senator Paterson may find it prob
15 lematic in terms of setting up this procedure
16 involving purchases up to $5,000. The reason
17 that I'm sponsoring this bill is that it's been
18 problematic not having some kind of limited
19 process in the law to cover situations like
20 this.
21 The reason I do not believe that
22 it throws open the conflict of interest
23 provisions in the General Municipal Law is that
1075
1 we very consciously make it such a narrow set of
2 circumstances -- the member of the governing
3 board; it has to be an elected position serving
4 without salary; the purchases, those that are up
5 to $5,000 in aggregate, have got to be done
6 according to the lowest possible bid.
7 All of those procurement policies
8 and procedures are very much in place. We're
9 not changing those at all in terms of the low
10 bid provisions, and the resolutions authorizing
11 the purchases in this situation have got to be
12 unanimous with the one particular member
13 abstaining.
14 So it's not a problem, in my
15 estimation, because we are so narrowly defining
16 the set of circumstances so that we are not just
17 throwing these conflict of interest provisions
18 out the window.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
20 much for answering, Senator Seward. They were
21 certainly persuasive in the sense that I
22 understand the narrow set of circumstances, and
23 I appreciate the fact that there will be a
1076
1 unanimous vote of the board and abstention on
2 the part of the particular member that's
3 involved.
4 However, on the bill, I would
5 suggest that should this bill come up again that
6 perhaps it might be a little more foresighted to
7 start the amount at something lower than $5,000
8 per year, which, in my opinion, would allow for
9 an individual to be involved in as many as 20,
10 25, 30 separate contracts.
11 So what I'm just saying is that
12 the old amount that we had was $100. We could
13 understand that. We're raising that to $750.
14 But Section 802, right now the amount would be
15 zero. In other words, we've never done this
16 before and all of a sudden, we're jumping to an
17 aggregate of $5,000 a year.
18 I just think it's excessive and
19 certainly opens the door to a certain amount of
20 coercion on the board and a certain amount of
21 cooperation that exists among board members to
22 the possible detriment relating to conflict of
23 interest.
1077
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Do any
2 other members wish to speak?
3 (There was no response.)
4 Call the roll.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
11 the negative on Calendar 154 are Senators Abate,
12 Connor, Paterson and Smith. Ayes 51, nays 4.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
14 is passed.
15 One moment.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Why do
18 you rise, Senator Gold?
19 SENATOR GOLD: While we seem to
20 have a small pause -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Just a
22 pause.
23 SENATOR GOLD: The last bill was
1078
1 154. Could I please be recorded in the negative
2 on that?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Correct.
4 Senator Gold has requested to be recorded in the
5 negative on Calendar Number 154.
6 Senator Kuhl.
7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam
8 President. By way of order of the calendar, can
9 we call up Calendar Number 59, by Senator Bruno,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Secretary
12 will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 59, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5598A, an act
15 to amend the Legislative Law, the State Finance
16 Law and the Executive Law, in relation to
17 estimates of state revenues.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
20 Explanation has been called for. Senator
21 Stafford.
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
23 President, all of us who have served here in the
1079
1 Legislature or in the Senate or in the Assembly
2 have often thought and said to ourselves we
3 should make some changes, we should have some
4 reform when it comes to putting our fiscal house
5 in order. No pun intended.
6 We all realize that it's a
7 complicated procedure. We all realize that we
8 serve here in the Senate -- there are 61 of us.
9 It would be good if every one of us could do
10 what we want to do and have that pass, have that
11 signed into law but, of course, that cannot be
12 done. We have to have a system whereby together
13 we reach a consensus and we get more than a
14 majority or a majority in our votes to pass the
15 legislation and to pass a budget.
16 Now, putting the budget together
17 is extremely complicated, and if we were to
18 follow this procedure, we were to find that it's
19 almost unbelievable. But those of us who have
20 served in local government, those of us who have
21 served in any other government, or actually in
22 the private sector, realize putting a budget
23 together, once again it is getting an agreement,
1080
1 getting a consensus, and deciding what we will
2 take in and what we will spend.
3 Now, here in government, here in
4 the state, the agencies, the state agencies,
5 they start preparing the budget in the summer,
6 sometimes before the summer. Some are doing it
7 already, but when it was not quite so
8 complicated, it would start in the fall,
9 sometimes in the summer and the executive branch
10 would decide on the numbers, and it would be
11 submitted to the Legislature usually on February
12 1st or the last week in January, at the end of
13 January.
14 To the Governor's credit, this
15 year he provided us with a budget on December -
16 December 15th, and this has made a great deal of
17 difference and is making our job not only easier
18 but we're able to really understand more of what
19 we are doing and really have a handle on making
20 our decisions, and I don't say that criticizing
21 those who have gone before us either in the
22 legislative branch or in the executive branch,
23 but it was just understood years ago, when I
1081
1 first got here, that the Division of the Budget
2 really had the people, had the officials, and
3 they really had the power because they had the
4 knowledge and they had those who had the
5 information.
6 It has changed a bit, I think, in
7 all areas of government, and we do have very
8 hard workers in the Senate in the fiscal
9 committees and, yes, in the fiscal committee in
10 the Assembly.
11 I do want to mention, Madam
12 President, before I go any further because I
13 wanted to mention this as quickly as possible.
14 We have had hearings on the budget, and they
15 have been going on for over a month, and I would
16 tell you that we have gone into the hearings at
17 about 10:00 o'clock usually and left sometimes
18 at late as 9:30 or 10:00. But I won't tell you
19 that because that would be self-serving, but we
20 were there. We were there, and people were able
21 to come in to Assemblyman Farrell and myself.
22 Many of you were there, many of the personnel,
23 members of the Assembly were there, and people
1082
1 had the opportunity to speak their mind.
2 I think to the credit of the
3 system we had and those involved, excluding
4 myself, it's a real compliment because we were
5 given a great deal of information, and I can
6 only say to you that for a number of years -
7 and I have served here a number of years -- I've
8 often thought that hearings were sort of a waste
9 of time at times. But these hearings, I assure
10 you, one can always learn.
11 People came in and discussed how
12 their lives were going to be affected. They
13 discussed how their business was going to be
14 affected. They came in and discussed how their
15 families were going to be affected. They came
16 in and just explained how this budget affected
17 them, and I assure you, Mr. President, that with
18 the hearings that we've had and with the record
19 that has been made and is going to be printed,
20 we will be able to do that much better a job.
21 Once in a while people would get
22 a bit exercised, but we were all pleased with
23 that because it would get us a bit blah when
1083
1 you're sitting there for ten to twelve hours at
2 a time.
3 But with this legislation, Mr.
4 President, it provides clarification and will be
5 conforming provisions related to the constitu
6 tional amendment which we will consider after
7 this, and it does have very, very meaningful
8 reforms, and I have three that I would like to
9 discuss.
10 I'm sure we will have a
11 discussion. I'm sure there will be some
12 questions, and I also want to say right here as
13 I stand on the floor, the gentleman at my left
14 was there just exactly like Assemblyman Farrell
15 was and myself during the hearings that I just
16 mentioned. I think that is important.
17 The first provision, what I would
18 consider a reform, it provides for joint budget
19 conference committees to be appointed by the
20 Speaker and by the Majority Leader by March 10th
21 and requires a report to the legislative leaders
22 by March 29th. I think that's a real, real move
23 in the right direction; and the reason I think
1084
1 that conference committees are important, it's
2 very interesting, when you get back in your
3 district and you start discussing all of this,
4 how things kind of clear up in your head and you
5 realize sometimes, why, our constituents think
6 just like we do, and I said, yes, we should have
7 that conference committee. We should close the
8 door. We're all mature, sensible people. We
9 have to come to a consensus and we have to have
10 a report. It's easier said than done, but I
11 think it's possibly -- and I'm pointing at
12 myself as one who would have to be understanding
13 as much as anyone.
14 A second reform requires the
15 convention of public revenue estimating
16 conferences to be held on or before September
17 30th. The convention? Yeah, you're convening a
18 public -- I see. We're learning English here
19 today. Convention means convening.
20 It requires a convening of public
21 revenue estimating conferences to be held on or
22 before September 30th to support the development
23 of a consensus of revenue estimate by November
1085
1 20th. A follow-up conference will be held by
2 January 10th again to support the development of
3 an updated consensus estimate by January 20th.
4 And, my friends, you see there a
5 number of times the word "consensus" used. That
6 is what we have to have, no matter what area of
7 government we are serving in, no matter what
8 level -- and I don't like the word "level"
9 because I think one area of government really is
10 as important as the other, whether it be local,
11 state, or federal.
12 And, thirdly, the statute
13 requires a submission by the Governor of a more
14 detailed four-year financial projection for the
15 Executive Budget and an update of the four-year
16 projection within 60 days of budget passage.
17 Madam President, again you have
18 to be careful when you start taking credit for
19 anything because, believe me, many, many others
20 have been involved. This is one area that I
21 have said we had to really get something done,
22 and that is to have a sensible -- a sensible,
23 really, determination for at least three to four
1086
1 years out. Businesses do it. The state must do
2 it. At the present time and we've been doing it
3 for many, many years, more years than any of us
4 have been here or will be here, year by year.
5 This does have to be changed. I compliment the
6 Majority Leader who has led this move. I
7 compliment the Governor, who also has been
8 joined in leading. I commend all who have
9 worked hard in the drafting of this legislation
10 and hopefully its passage.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
14 would the distinguished Senator yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I
18 appreciate the fact that your remarks were
19 highlights, but I'm taking a look at the
20 document which I understand is the memo which,
21 as I look at the bill, it starts off in Section
22 1 and Section 2, says that there is a provision
23 for a two-thirds vote of revenue actions
1087
1 amounting to $50 million.
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: The mandate is
3 in the Constitution, but let me please mention
4 this and I will -- whenever you need more
5 information, I will do my best to get it for
6 you. Remember how we kept trying to tell people
7 to summarize the highlights all during the
8 hearings? That's what I tried to do.
9 SENATOR GOLD: And very well.
10 So, Senator, what I'm trying to -- I ask you
11 again if you'll yield.
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yeah.
13 SENATOR GOLD: The memo says
14 there's a provision in the bill that would
15 require a two-thirds vote on revenue actions
16 amounting to $50 million or more. Could you
17 just tell me where that is in the bill itself?
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: In the bill
19 itself. All right. If I could, Senator Gold,
20 the amendment to the Constitution is what sets
21 forth the necessity of the two-thirds vote. The
22 bill just specifies on how this will be carried
23 out.
1088
1 SENATOR GOLD: Got it. Will the
2 Senator yield to one more question?
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if I
5 really understand this, the calendar number
6 before this bill which we didn't do yet is a
7 Constitution -- proposed constitutional
8 amendment and, if that were to take effect, this
9 bill has some language in it which would
10 basically be the enabling or the actual carrying
11 out of that provision.
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
13 SENATOR GOLD: So if I may
14 continue, Madam President, in the bill that we
15 have before us on page 1, line 20 where it
16 refers to Section 20, Article III of the
17 Constitution and definitions of the word "tax",
18 I think, Senator, you would agree with me that
19 as of today as we stand in the state of New
20 York, Article III, Section 20 does not even use
21 the word "tax", and basically you're asking that
22 we pass a bill and that this bill be sitting
23 around in case some day we ever pass an
1089
1 amendment to Section 3, Article 20 which may,
2 indeed, have the word "tax" in it. Is that -
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Your point is
4 well taken, but this would only take effect once
5 we have that constitutional amendment in
6 effect.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Oh. Well,
8 Senator, if you'll yield to another question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Will the
10 Senator yield?
11 (Senator Stafford nods his head.)
12 SENATOR GOLD: Has the print
13 before us, 5598, passed both houses of the
14 Legislature at any point? The one -- I'm
15 sorry. I'm talking about Calendar Number 58,
16 the constitutional amendment. Has that passed
17 both houses of the Legislature yet?
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will share
19 with you that -- I have a feeling, just looking
20 at the entire situation, that that will be
21 passed. It has not.
22 SENATOR GOLD: It has not. So,
23 Senator, if I then understand it, if we did -
1090
1 if the Senator would continue to yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
3 do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR GOLD: If, Senator, we
5 passed Calendar 58 this year as a constitutional
6 amendment, I believe that the -- we would have
7 to resubmit it to a Legislature elected after
8 this November and it would have to be repasssed
9 and then submitted to the voters in November of
10 1997. Isn't that correct, Senator?
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, right,
12 but, of course, it has to take effect after all
13 of that you just mentioned.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Well,
15 Senator, this is my question. Isn't it a little
16 unusual to -- to propose legislation that we
17 pass now which defines words that are not even
18 in the state Constitution, and then suggest that
19 we pass that in the law, and then wait around
20 for two years to see whether or not this
21 Legislature and then the following Legislature
22 decides to submit to the people a constitutional
23 amendment which they may reject rather than to
1091
1 wait until the people have spoken or at least
2 once the bill -- the constitutional amendment
3 has passed, then suggest language. Isn't this
4 just way, way, way putting the cart before the
5 horse in this case?
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I -- I
7 don't think that this puts the cart before the
8 horse, because I think having this bill in print
9 and in effect people will see exactly how the
10 constitutional amendment will be carried out
11 once this passes. This will be part of the
12 information that we make available when this
13 amendment has, as you say, passed one session of
14 the Legislature -- of a Legislature. It has to
15 pass the next -- the next Legislature, two-year
16 cycle, then be submitted to the people.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
18 Madam President, on the bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
20 Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: When Senator
22 Stafford talks, I listen. All right? It may
23 not be Smith Barney but when he talks, I
1092
1 listen.
2 Senator Stafford rightfully said
3 that if you're going to put a budget plan
4 together, you need a consensus, and he used that
5 word "consensus" over and over, and I'm glad he
6 did that because that is really accurate, but I
7 would also suggest to Senator Stafford that, if
8 you're creating a format for reform, that also
9 needs a consensus because whatever we pass in
10 this house is of no effect unless it passed in
11 the other house and submitted to the people if
12 it's a constitutional amendment or submitted to
13 the Governor if it is to be a law.
14 I don't know whether there is any
15 great consensus here. I will say this, that by
16 you reading the proposed law change that we're
17 on now and reading the proposed constitutional
18 amendment which is Calendar 58, there is some
19 good news and that good news, as I see it,
20 Senator Stafford, is that your conference had
21 the good sense to reject some of the Governor's
22 proposals because the Governor has also
23 suggested that we change the process, and it's
1093
1 my understanding that he has suggested
2 increasing transfer authority for the Director
3 of the Budget to ten percent, including across
4 the board for agencies, diluting the meaning of
5 our legislative appropriations.
6 Now, maybe if you were the
7 Governor, you would think that's pretty good
8 stuff, but I don't know whether 61 men and women
9 in this house and 150 in the other house would
10 agree with that. So I'm glad you have sent a
11 message to our former colleague in the Senate
12 and said that wasn't so great.
13 You also rejected Governor
14 Pataki's proposal of changing the lapse date for
15 appropriations to March 31st, which proposal, by
16 the way, failed to recognize normal business
17 practices and could have adversely affected
18 small business.
19 Also, I understand, that the
20 executive had asked for authority to enter into
21 contracts without appropriation authority, and
22 this may be in the form of moral obligation
23 without legislative approval and, again, I
1094
1 appreciate the fact that your side stood up for
2 the Legislature in that way.
3 It may also be that, if you
4 wanted to sit down with people like Senator
5 Stachowski and Senator Nanula and Senator
6 Leichter and Senator Dollinger, et cetera, et
7 cetera, we might be able to really put together
8 some reform package for the budget that -- that
9 was a consensus, to use your word.
10 I see some flaws in the bill as
11 it's presented, and I was concerned about one of
12 the comments that Senator Stafford made when it
13 came to the provision about a conference
14 committee. Now, last year there was quite a bit
15 to say about the concept of whether or not the
16 Governor and legislative leaders, as bargainers,
17 were going to do that in an open room with the
18 press watching and with the people watching to
19 get away from the old methodology of people
20 going behind closed doors and talking that way,
21 but yet when I heard Senator Stafford, he said
22 specifically that a committee would be appointed
23 no later than March 10th and they were to report
1095
1 no later than March 29th, and that they would go
2 behind closed doors and hammer it out.
3 Well, Senator, I don't know
4 whether you meant that literally, but that's
5 what you said and perhaps you would want to
6 amend that, but if you're talking about putting
7 together a group of people and sitting behind
8 closed doors, I don't know how that changes what
9 happens now when legislative leaders go behind
10 closed doors; but, if you look at your proposed
11 legislation at page 1, lines 10 through 13, it
12 provides that there shall be a report, which
13 sounds very encouraging, until you get to line
14 13 itself which says "except the report may be
15 that we can't give you a report." That's
16 terrific.
17 So, we will have a conference
18 committee that, according to Senator Stafford,
19 works behind closed doors from March 10th to
20 March 29th, and then we'll emerge, as everyone
21 stands breathless, and hand up a piece of paper
22 that says we cannot report. Now, I don't know
23 what that is going to accomplish.
1096
1 As far as the language dealing
2 with the two-thirds, I am not going to say to
3 you, Senator Stafford, that in the past we have
4 not had constitutional amendment proposals and
5 we have not had a statutory language that would
6 be working together with that proposal if, in
7 fact, it passed, but in this one particular
8 situation, I just think you're way, way ahead of
9 yourself because we are pretty far from that
10 particular contingency.
11 At any rate, I think if you read
12 the record of your comments, Senator Stafford,
13 you'll find that the word you used more often
14 was "consensus" and if you want a consensus,
15 we're going to give you some ideas, and with the
16 permission of the Chair, I would like to yield
17 to Senator Nanula for the purpose of offering an
18 amendment.
19 SENATOR NANULA: Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
21 Bruno is our next speaker.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam
23 President.
1097
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: He asked
2 to be on the list before you yielded, Senator.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
4 do I have the floor?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes, you
6 do, Senator Bruno.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: And Senator Gold
8 has relinquished the floor?
9 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
10 no objection.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam
12 President.
13 ACTING GOLD: I'm delighted to
14 listen to my leader.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
16 you, Senator Gold.
17 Senator Bruno has the floor.
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you.
19 SENATOR GOLD: And I believe
20 Senator Connor said it to Senator Bruno.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: And your leader,
22 Senator Paterson as well, who is on the floor
23 listening diligently.
1098
1 Madam President, I also was
2 listening to Senator Stafford's explanation and
3 Senator Gold's questions and his replies, and I
4 think Senator Stafford established extremely
5 well why we have this proposal before us, and as
6 he was explaining this bill, he was also talking
7 about the constitutional amendment that is
8 required through a resolution that is a
9 companion to the bill that's on the floor before
10 us. They are truly a package. One doesn't go
11 without the other.
12 On this package, anyone in this
13 chamber that doesn't recognize that the system
14 of passing a budget in this state doesn't work
15 well on behalf of our constituencies -- this is
16 not a partisan issue. It is not a political
17 issue. This is an issue that all of us have to
18 reconcile and resolve on behalf of our mutual
19 constituency. We are debating and negotiating a
20 change to the budget process with the Speaker,
21 the Governor's office and a joint press
22 conference on December 7th has partnered with us
23 in the legislation, in the resolution that is
1099
1 before us. So that's two out of three,
2 presently, that feel this makes sense.
3 Speaker Silver, representing his
4 conference, has advocated budget reform. We are
5 very interested in what the Speaker has to say.
6 We don't claim pride of authorship with what is
7 before us, but what we do in this house is take
8 action. There is a time for action, and the
9 time is now for us to establish what we are
10 prepared to do to change a budget process in
11 this state that doesn't work, and if we in this
12 chamber want to be a party to something
13 continuing year after year when we know it
14 doesn't work, then that's wrong. Then we're
15 failing our constituency individually and
16 mutually.
17 So it disturbs me a little that I
18 sense a political position, and I hope I'm wrong
19 that this represents a partisan attitude in that
20 what's on the floor doesn't make sense because
21 it's presented primarily by a Republican
22 Conference.
23 Senator Gold shakes his head, and
1100
1 I'm very pleased that that's the case because I
2 know he's an honorable gentleman. He holds up
3 his thumb which means that everything is okay,
4 so I would expect that he will probably support
5 what's on the floor and concur that since the
6 system doesn't work, we've got to fix it and
7 this is our attempt to establish where we are as
8 a base.
9 Is this the only position that
10 ought to be established? Absolutely not, but it
11 is a position that we are prepared to move
12 forward the constitutional amendment for first
13 passage and the bill that's before us to become
14 law.
15 So that's where we are. We're
16 trying to fix a budget process that doesn't
17 work. It establishes, as Senator Stafford
18 related extremely well, right from the beginning
19 a consensus forecast, done -- started in
20 September, concluded in November, revised again
21 in January and during the process asked the
22 Governor to submit his budget by December 1st
23 instead of the end or middle of January, the
1101
1 amendment period going from 30 days to 45 days,
2 extending fully a two-month period, doubling the
3 time that we have for disclosure and, as the
4 process moves forward, by March 10th -- and I
5 want to be clear on this because I believe that
6 there was some confusion from Senator Gold's
7 question. The intent is, if this legislation
8 becomes law, that by March 10th the process
9 would be such that we would have an agreed on
10 budget between the two houses by March 10th and
11 that budget would move to the floor and become
12 law when signed by the Governor. That's the
13 intent that's before us.
14 If, by some quirk, the two houses
15 don't agree by March 10th, then we each pass our
16 own budgets to establish, then, conference
17 committees, unless each of us does our own
18 budget. Then the conference committees will not
19 be operative; we each establish our own budgets
20 in our own houses. Conference committees become
21 effective for 15 days, March 10th to March
22 29th. On March 29th, the conference committees
23 would report out, hopefully, in agreement.
1102
1 Everyone knows that conference
2 committees are open to the public, so you have
3 totally open discussion on the budget process
4 through the conference committee approach. On
5 the 29th, conference committees report out;
6 together we pass a budget by April 1st. The
7 people of this state are happy. We are happy
8 because we take a two-week recess. That's
9 funny, but there is another reason why we're
10 happy, because we have done the work on behalf
11 of the people of this state that hasn't been
12 done 11 out of the last 12 years -- passed the
13 budget by April 1st.
14 If conference committees don't
15 get together, if we don't have a balanced budget
16 by April 1st, if what's before us becomes law,
17 we will have an austerity budget that becomes
18 the law of this state. That austerity budget
19 will be 90 percent of the previous year's
20 budget. That will be the law.
21 All appropriations and emergency
22 appropriations will be unnecessary and illegal
23 as dictated in the bill that's before us and the
1103
1 constitutional amendment that is a partner to
2 what's before us.
3 Now, that's the process. Early
4 consensus forecasting, early budget presentation
5 by the Governor, double at least the time for
6 deliberation, all open -- basically open the
7 process public, putting the budget together by
8 March 10th because the Governor would have
9 submitted his budget two months early. We can
10 pass a budget three weeks early if we have it
11 two months early.
12 Failing that, conference
13 committees put together a budget by April 1st.
14 Failing that, austerity budget. This is a good
15 plan. Is it perfect? Maybe not. You have
16 recommendations and suggestions. We welcome
17 them because, again, this is not a partisan
18 issue. It's not a political issue. We are
19 happy to partner in resolving how to fix a
20 budget process that's broke and doesn't work,
21 and I know you, Senator Gold, want to make it
22 work just as we want to make it work.
23 Madam President, thank you.
1104
1 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
3 you, Senator Bruno.
4 Senator Gold.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Would the
6 distinguished leader indulge me for one short
7 question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Bruno?
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
13 Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you have
15 been a groundbreaker. We start on time. There
16 was one open conference, and you said in front
17 of all of us within the last few minutes that
18 this is a non-partisan effort. You've got it, a
19 non-partisan effort, and I want to believe
20 that.
21 You also said that there will be
22 no more bulldozing, right? You already got your
23 trophy for that, and you also said you wanted to
1105
1 hear from the Speaker, and my question is an
2 easy one. Do you also -- and you said you're
3 interested, I think, but I want to get it
4 clear. This proposal can't go to the people
5 until November of '97 which means we've got this
6 whole session to work it out. I don't think
7 today is significant in terms of it must be
8 today or whatever but, Senator, we have some
9 amendments to offer today and you're saying to
10 us, Gentlemen, ladies, it's non-partisan and it
11 may not be perfect, and these are our
12 suggestions, and I'm saying some of them sound
13 pretty good.
14 Senator, would you at least say
15 to me in the spirit of openness that you're
16 talking about, that when Senator Nanula and
17 Senator Stachowski and Senator Paterson and I
18 and others make some suggestions today which we
19 think makes the process even better, that in a
20 non-partisan way you will listen and really give
21 us meritorious votes on these today instead of
22 what we've had so many years under different
23 leaders, "Party vote in the negative. Party
1106
1 vote in the negative. It comes from a Democrat.
2 It can't even be a good idea. We won't even
3 consider it." That's my question. Can we get a
4 fair hearing from you today?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6 Bruno.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
8 the answer to that question is certainly yes,
9 but what is fair I'm sure will be in the eyes
10 and ears of the beholders.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
12 you, Senator Bruno.
13 Senator Gold, you're yielding to
14 Senator Nanula? No?
15 Senator Nanula, are you next?
16 SENATOR NANULA: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Then
18 Senator Mendez.
19 SENATOR NANULA: Madam President,
20 I'll yield to Senator Mendez.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
22 you.
23 Senator Mendez.
1107
1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Would Senator
2 Bruno yield for a question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Bruno, will you yield to a question from Senator
5 Mendez?
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
7 President.
8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you.
9 Senator Bruno, the provision in
10 the bill that says that, in the event that the
11 conference committees do not -- is not in
12 accord, there is no agreement, that then the -
13 there will be an austerity budget kicking in and
14 that austerity budget would be 90 percent of the
15 entire budget. Is that provision placed in to
16 sort of place a gun to all of our heads to
17 agree? Is that the purpose?
18 SENATOR BRUNO: No, that really
19 isn't the main purpose, Senator. The main
20 purpose is that the people of this state would
21 then have a budget on April 1st whether we are
22 able to come to agreement or not. They would
23 have a budget in place so that they could plan,
1108
1 so that payments for welfare, for Medicaid, for
2 school aid could go out.
3 The incentive -- in that it would
4 be at a reduced number, the incentive would be
5 that we then negotiate in good faith to get it
6 done going forward based on the revenue
7 estimates and consensus for that particular
8 year.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
10 you, Senator.
11 Senator Nanula.
12 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Madam
13 President.
14 I believe there is an amendment
15 at the desk.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Is there
17 an amendment at the desk?
18 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
19 may we waive its reading and ask Senator Nanula
20 to explain it?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
22 Explanation.
23 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Madam
1109
1 President.
2 I would like, before explaining,
3 to actually commend Senator Bruno and members of
4 the Republican Conference for the spirit and for
5 the philosophy and the intent, which I believe
6 is sincere, to substantively reform this
7 process.
8 Since arriving here in this
9 Senate, I have been publicly critical and I have
10 been critical on this floor of the budget
11 process. In fact, for those of you who might
12 remember, I was the controversial member who
13 introduced the "no budget, no pay" legislation
14 in 1994, which I know went over awfully well and
15 was very well recognized within this chamber
16 when I actually broke ground and gave my pay
17 back for every day that the budget was not
18 passed.
19 So if there's anybody here in
20 this chamber who has demonstrated a sincere
21 commitment to real and substantive reform of the
22 budget process and on-time budgets, certainly I
23 feel that I'm amongst the top of the ranks, and
1110
1 I also feel that the Senator -- Senator Bruno is
2 sincerely committed to making this a bipartisan
3 process, and I don't think the Republicans, very
4 honestly, have a strong hold on their interest
5 in reforming this process. I think it is a
6 bipartisan effort. I think that members on both
7 sides of the aisle are sincerely interested in
8 changing this process, and in the spirit of
9 that, my amendment is a simple one.
10 The purpose of the bill is to
11 require that before the budget bills pass,
12 members of each house of the Legislature receive
13 a summary of all proposed changes to the budget
14 as submitted by the Governor. Again, a very
15 simple request, a very simple amendment, and
16 more simply stated, before we vote on the
17 budget, we would like to specifically know -
18 every member should have the benefit of knowing,
19 in the Senate and in the Assembly, the various
20 detailed aspects of what we're going to be
21 voting on.
22 In the Governor's bill that was
23 submitted earlier this year, this language was
1111
1 included. I'm wondering why it was removed.
2 The Governor, who has served in this legislative
3 body, who has voted on budgets, who has been a
4 part of this flawed process, saw fit to include
5 it. Historically, the "green book" has been the
6 method of allowing the Legislature -- both
7 sides, both houses -- to have this specific
8 knowledge and information, but historically the
9 "green book" has been released after the budget
10 bills have been voted on.
11 I think that's wrong; and, again,
12 Senator Bruno, Senator Stafford, in the spirit
13 of a bipartisan effort to reform this process,
14 to vote on a proposed piece of legislation that
15 will hopefully bring a substantial reform to
16 this process, I encourage you to please give
17 consideration to this amendment and vote in the
18 affirmative on it.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry,
23 Madam President. I wanted to speak after this
1112
1 amendment.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: After the
3 amendment. All right. I'm sorry.
4 Senator Gold.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
6 much.
7 Madam President, I would ask that
8 my colleagues on the other side take a look at
9 Calendar Number 58 which, as I understand it,
10 would limit the number of appropriation bills
11 and budget bills that can even be submitted, and
12 while I don't really know why yet -- I guess
13 I'll find out -- it would seem to me that, if we
14 have a certain amount of work to do in the
15 state, Senator Bruno, and we're now saying that
16 these bills must be compressed into a certain
17 limited number of bills, that means a lot of
18 pages per bill, it means a lot of confusion, and
19 it would seem to me that all Senator Nanula is
20 suggesting is something which will give us all
21 the opportunity in a little easier manner to see
22 exactly where we have come from the point of the
23 Governor's budget to the point of submission.
1113
1 Not only that, I take a look
2 around and I know some of us have been here long
3 enough to remember when "green books" and things
4 like that were just a normal process. So,
5 Senator Bruno, I would think that as someone who
6 has complained to me, certainly privately if no
7 place else, over the years, that sometimes we
8 lose track, we're too technical.
9 I would urge that this is one of
10 the kinds of reforms that could fit right into
11 the proposals that are being thrown out by the
12 Majority, and in the spirit of bipartisanship or
13 non-partisanship, I would love to see the next
14 supporting statement for this amendment come
15 from you, Senator Bruno, or from Senator
16 Stafford, reaching a hand across the aisle
17 saying, "Yes, we need a consensus. We want to
18 hear from Assemblyman Silver and we do
19 appreciate the sincerity and the intellect that
20 goes with Senator Nanula's suggestion."
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
22 question is on the amendment. All those in
23 favor say aye.
1114
1 (Response of "Aye".)
2 Opposed?
3 (Response of "Nay".)
4 The amendment is defeated.
5 Senator Bruno -- Senator
6 Paterson. I'm sorry.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
8 President, we have a party vote in the
9 affirmative on this.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There
11 will be a party vote in the affirmative. There
12 was a reported vote of yeas and nays, and so
13 the recorded vote -
14 SENATOR GOLD: A party vote is
15 requested.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: -- the
17 party vote is inappropriate.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
20 Bruno.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the
22 affirmative, yes. Is there a party vote in the
23 negative?
1115
1 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the
2 negative.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Okay.
4 The Clerk then will record the party vote. Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 20, nays 36,
8 party vote in the negative.
9 SENATOR GOLD: A point of inquiry
10 of the Chair.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
12 amendment is defeated.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Madam
14 President, is it possible under our rules to
15 record that party vote in a non-partisan way?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Oh, it
17 was.
18 Senator Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
20 President, I have an amendment at the desk which
21 amends Section 57 of the Legislative Law, lines
22 10 through 14. I would waive its reading and I
23 would just like to discuss it at this time.
1116
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: On the
2 amendment, Senator Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
4 President, because we do proceed here through
5 our conferences and because we do have a
6 Minority and a Majority Conference, irrespective
7 of the nature of how we come to that, it is the
8 regular practice here, and what we are
9 suggesting in this amendment to what is ground
10 breaking legislation that's being proposed on a
11 number of points today is the issue of the
12 representation of the Minority parties, the
13 Minority Conferences in the Senate and in the
14 Assembly in consensus forecasting and in
15 conference activities and certainly in our
16 conference procedures after March 10th.
17 If by March 10th the Executive
18 Budget is not passed, it would then be the
19 designation of the Speaker and of the Majority
20 Leader of the Senate that we would have these
21 conferences which would be open and in which
22 there would be an attempt to negotiate the
23 budget.
1117
1 What we are proposing in this
2 amendment is to have representation of the
3 Minority Parties -- the Minority Conferences in
4 these proceedings and that they be proportional
5 to the number of legislators who are in the
6 Minority Conferences.
7 It has been certainly the
8 procedure here that the Majority has conducted
9 the negotiations in the budget processes. There
10 have been times that the Minority parties have
11 actually been excluded from the negotiations,
12 itself. Perhaps that is one of the practices
13 that needs to be changed. Perhaps that is
14 contributing to the budgets that now run as late
15 as 67, 68 days. What we are suggesting is that
16 nearly 300,000 people have elected Senators and
17 nearly 140,000 people elect Assembly members and
18 that those members deserve to be part of the
19 negotiation.
20 Now, the reason that we have
21 committees and the reason that we have
22 conferences is to truncate the negotiating
23 process. We don't need to have 61 Senators and
1118
1 150 Assembly members in the room at all times,
2 but in trying to take shortcuts we have probably
3 elongated the process by not having a
4 representative inclusion of all of the
5 conferences and, really, all of the different
6 voices that make up the composition of our
7 Senate and our Assembly in the legislative
8 process, and so what we are asking for in this
9 amendment is for us to be mindful of the fact
10 that because we have a divergence of party now
11 representing us in the conference procedures,
12 due to the fact that the Republicans control the
13 Senate and the Democrats control the Assembly,
14 we now are in the unique position of having
15 somewhat, to a degree, of representation.
16 However, what if one party
17 controlled both of the houses? Then there would
18 really be no independence. There would really
19 be no opportunity for any of the voices to be
20 heard, and so for that and just the fact that it
21 is good government, I submit this amendment to
22 Section 57 of the Legislative Law, lines 10
23 through 14.
1119
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
2 you, Senator Paterson.
3 The question is on the
4 amendment. All those in favor say aye.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
6 the affirmative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Party
8 vote in the -
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the
10 negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 20, nays 36,
15 party vote in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
17 amendment is defeated.
18 The Clerk will read -- read the
19 last section.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Gold, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill.
1120
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: On the
2 bill.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
4 there are problems with the bill. There
5 certainly is no problem with Senator Bruno
6 wanting to reform the system but, for example,
7 in this bill an austerity budget kicks in
8 without even a vote of the Legislature, but what
9 I do have a problem with -- and I hope the press
10 understands this. You know, I always thought
11 that if people got to the high position in life
12 where they could work for the media and report
13 to the public -- most of them studied English in
14 college and majored in it perhaps, so they
15 understand words, and I suggest that it would be
16 really very decent of a very decent press corps,
17 if they reported the words that were said today
18 by our Majority Leader as well as the actions
19 taken, because then you see that the words are
20 right but the actions mean nothing. It means
21 nothing.
22 There is really no desire on the
23 part of this Republican Majority to find a
1121
1 consensus. There is no desire on the part of
2 this Republican Majority to reach agreements and
3 compromise, and last year when we couldn't bring
4 in a budget on time for a Republican Governor
5 and all the finger pointing went on, you see
6 what happens. If you want a consensus, it's not
7 a consensus that says, "We will vote your way."
8 It's not a consensus that says, "This is it and
9 do it my way." It's a consensus that says, "You
10 have an idea. I have an idea. I ran as a
11 Democrat. You ran as a Republican, but we came
12 up here to do the people's business. Why don't
13 we listen and talk to each other?"
14 Senator Bruno, I listened to you
15 when you talked to us but when we talk, you do
16 not listen, and the people suffer.
17 I thought it was interesting
18 earlier this year when you and Speaker Silver
19 made quite a to-do over opening up the books of
20 the Legislature. You didn't make that to-do and
21 walk over here and shake the hands of Rick
22 Dollinger and shake the hands of Franz Leichter
23 and say, "Guys, together with Suzi Oppenheimer
1122
1 and some others, you have been fighting for this
2 for years and you guys were right; we were wrong
3 and we're going to do it," but it was with a big
4 hoopla, "We're opening up the books," and I said
5 to myself, Sometimes -- sometimes this place is
6 even crazier than most of us know it is. You're
7 taking money from the taxpayers and go to hold a
8 press conference to say, "Thank you for your
9 money but after all of these years, we're
10 finally going to tell you what we do with it."
11 Fantastic!
12 Senator, I'm for budget reform.
13 We have been for budget reform for years, but do
14 me a favor. You are the Majority and right now
15 you've got 31 votes plus a couple or two or
16 three or whatever, and you control the house.
17 So if you want to put out your bill and do it,
18 do it, but don't make a speech that says you're
19 interested in listening to anyone because your
20 gentlemen and one lady listen to nobody. You
21 don't care what Assemblyman Silver says other
22 than you want to know so you can give some kind
23 of answer to it, not to reach a consensus, and
1123
1 you come out here and you talk about non
2 partisan, bipartisan, and those are nonsense
3 words. Your party doesn't know what that means
4 because the fact of the matter is that you come
5 out here and the minute it's on the floor, the
6 minute it's got somebody's name on it, that's
7 it. Well, I shouldn't exactly say that. If you
8 put out a Democratic bill and you want an
9 amendment, you'll hold that bill until that
10 amendment comes out, but your bills, my God,
11 what a bunch of geniuses. Whatever you put out
12 can't be amended, can't be improved in any way,
13 and then -- which is okay. If that's the way
14 you want to run it, run it, but don't add insult
15 to injury by claiming that you come to this
16 floor in good faith and in a bipartisan,
17 non-partisan effort to change the budget
18 process.
19 The hearings yesterday, we heard
20 from the tax commissioner. We heard from
21 Ambassador Commissioner Gargano, and one of the
22 things we pointed out was that in 1975, we
23 started with a personal income tax rate around
1124
1 16 percent, plus or minus, that by the time the
2 Carey years were over, we were down to about ten
3 percent. By the time the Cuomo years were over,
4 we're down to pretty much where we are now, and
5 that this big tax cut of last year when you take
6 a look at where we come from and where we are,
7 was really de minimus.
8 Having said all of that, of
9 course, I would like to remind you of
10 something. Who are you saving the taxpayers
11 from but yourselves, because there was a
12 Democratic -- excuse me -- a Republican Majority
13 in this house that brought the personal income
14 tax rates up to some 16 percent. You gentlemen
15 controlled every year since 1966. You
16 controlled and voted for and passed every
17 budget. As a matter of fact, in '66-67, you
18 even had a Republican Governor and you weren't
19 screaming for budget reforms. As a matter of
20 fact, with Governor Carey and with Governor
21 Cuomo, you weren't screaming for budget reforms,
22 and I don't remember seeing the Bruno bills for
23 constitutional amendments and the Bruno bills
1125
1 for laws to explain the constitutional
2 amendments. I don't remember seeing those, and
3 if they were there and you show them to me, I'll
4 say, "Senator, you're right. They were there,"
5 but I don't remember.
6 I do remember a lot of criticism
7 in the last five, six, ten years coming from
8 your side of the aisle to a guy named Leichter
9 and people like Oppenheimer and Dollinger -- I
10 don't want to offend anybody on this side -
11 Stachowski, a lot of criticism from your side.
12 "We're wasting time with those proposals. We
13 won't adopt those proposals," until such time as
14 you put your own name on a piece of paper, and
15 then if there's anything else that can improve
16 it, you won't listen to that either.
17 So, Senator Bruno, I can't speak
18 for anybody else and maybe some people will vote
19 yes because, what the heck, some of these are
20 good and maybe it's an improvement. Some of
21 them are going to vote no. I'm going to vote no
22 because I just don't want to be part of this
23 nonsense, part of this sham.
1126
1 You want to change this system,
2 Senator Bruno, I'll shake hands with you, I'll
3 sit down with you, I'll work with you and
4 Senator Stafford who does a wonderful job, a
5 hard-working job. You people ought to really
6 appreciate what that man does sitting ten hours
7 a day listening to commissioners and the
8 public. He does a terrific job. I'll sit down
9 with Senator Stafford, Senator Connor, Senator
10 Paterson, be glad to sit down with you, Senator
11 Bruno and Senator Skelos. We'll sit down with
12 each other and say, "You know,we've got a
13 terrific deal here. Let's fix up the system,"
14 but don't lecture me on non-partisan, bipartisan
15 and all of that junk and then cast party votes
16 without even a discussion, without even saying,
17 "Well, Senator Nanula, you're on the right
18 track. Would you take this little amendment and
19 then we'll do your amendment." You don't say to
20 Senator Paterson, "That's a terrific idea but,
21 you know, let's take a look. Maybe with
22 adjustments we could do the Majority plus one or
23 whatever." Nothing, because you don't want to
1127
1 hear.
2 You come here and you say, "I
3 want to hear Assemblyman Silver," and I asked
4 you point blank, "Do you want to hear from us
5 too?" "Of course, I want to hear," but you
6 don't hear and, Senator, there was something I
7 learned about in school called the looking glass
8 self, and I'm ready to respect you, Senator
9 Bruno, and I do respect you, but I'd like to get
10 that looking glass self-respect back again from
11 you, and when you come here with a piece of
12 legislation that is negotiated where we can have
13 an input into this process also and you will not
14 close your ears to all that is being said that
15 has merit, then we'll listen to your proposal.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
17 Abate.
18 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I would
19 like to be heard on the bill.
20 What I believe is being offered
21 today are some modest changes and the changes
22 certainly do not go far enough, and if we're
23 actually going to look at substantive reform, we
1128
1 should look at reform that produces not only a
2 timely budget but a budget that each of us as
3 legislators know is in the budget, that we're
4 fully informed and that we could support a
5 process that we can go back to our constituents
6 and say, "We passed a bill -- we passed a
7 budget, that we understood the impact of that
8 budget. We understood the implications of that
9 budget, and we actually were informed about the
10 details of that budget."
11 I have a grim reminder of what
12 occurred last year, and maybe because I was a
13 newly-elected state Senator I was a little bit
14 naive, but I remember late at night receiving
15 the budget package, not knowing what was inside,
16 a stack of papers, maybe two or three feet deep,
17 and we were asked as elected officials to
18 represent our constituents even though we had no
19 knowledge as to the evolution of that budget.
20 We knew that the changes were made by the
21 leaders, but we as individual legislators had to
22 rely on hearsay because we did not have the
23 opportunity to read the document, to be
1129
1 informed, to have extensive conferences on that
2 document, and until I see real reform around
3 that issue so that I can stand here and go home
4 as a legislator and say to my constituents, "I
5 knew what I voted on. I was fully informed and
6 I took responsibility for my actions."
7 I was concerned last year and I
8 think that's going to happen this year. In
9 these Article VII bills are contained not just
10 budget proposals but bills that have dramatic
11 policy implications. Last year, in the middle
12 of the night, we passed a sentencing reform
13 bill, and we asked questions. It was 11:00
14 o'clock, 11:30 at night. We wanted to know what
15 the fiscal impact was on the sentencing reform
16 bills. We didn't have that information at
17 hand.
18 That's just one example why we
19 need to change this -- the budget process, so
20 that we have integrity, we have some knowledge
21 and each individual legislator is held
22 accountable for these actions.
23 So I cannot support this
1130
1 legislation. It does not go far enough. We
2 need to produce real reform and, until we do
3 that, this is cosmetic and it might produce a
4 timely budget. It might put some more pressure
5 -- because no one wants us to go to a budget
6 that is 90 percent of last year. That doesn't
7 produce any kind of real reform.
8 My concern is let's sit down if
9 we really want a bipartisan effort. Let's form
10 over a short period of time a conference
11 committee of Democrats and Republicans in this
12 chamber. Forget about the other chamber for the
13 moment.
14 Let's talk about some of these
15 issues and maybe some of the Democratic ideas
16 that also produce reform. Let's talk about this
17 issue. I call upon Senator Bruno to table this
18 bill, so we can have fuller discussion, so next
19 year we can say we've actually achieved reform,
20 not a Band-Aid solution that looks like reform,
21 and that we go back to our constituencies more
22 frustrated, less informed than the year before.
23 I hope this is an opportunity,
1131
1 not just to end the discussion, but that we can
2 really come together and produce a better
3 result, so 20 years from now we can look back on
4 this session, and say we did something that
5 changed the way we did business in Albany.
6 This is a business as usual bill.
7 It doesn't go far enough. I cannot support it.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The clerk
9 will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
16 the negative on Calendar Number 59 are Senators
17 Abate, Babbush, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Kruger,
18 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula,
19 Onorato, Paterson, Santiago, Smith and Waldon.
20 Ayes 41, nays 15.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
22 is passed.
23 The Clerk will read.
1132
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 58, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5597-A,
3 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly
4 proposing amendments to Article III of the
5 Constitution.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation,
7 please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: An
9 explanation has been called for.
10 Senator Bruno.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
12 we have already talked about much of what is in
13 this constitutional amendment. This is a
14 resolution, a constitutional amendment different
15 from the legislation that we have just approved
16 in this house, and this sets forth the process
17 to improve the budget in a constitutional reform
18 method, and the obvious reason is so that once
19 this is in place, it would be difficult to
20 change by some future Legislature without
21 changing the Constitution, and it -- as I said
22 earlier, it represents a package. This is part
23 of the package.
1133
1 It moves the submission date by
2 the Governor to the Legislature of the budget to
3 December 1st from the January date that
4 presently exists. It consolidates the budget
5 appropriation bills to seven bills with ten
6 Article 7s as part of the implementing
7 legislation. It mandates that if we don't have
8 a budget in place by April 1st, then 90 percent
9 of the previous budget becomes the budget of the
10 state. It requires a two-thirds majority to
11 increase taxes over 50 million, two-thirds
12 majority. It requires that the consensus
13 forecasting be put in place, pretty much along
14 the lines that I outlined, that the process
15 start in December and conclude some time by the
16 middle of November. It eliminates the ability
17 of the Legislature to do emergency appropriation
18 bills which would be unnecessary if we have
19 already an austerity budget, and it extends the
20 amendment period by the Governor from 30 days to
21 45 days as part of the process.
22 Now, that is in the
23 constitutional amendment in a resolution form
1134
1 that is presently before us. This, coupled with
2 the bill that we passed, would represent the
3 budget reform package that we establish as
4 openers in the process of reforming the budget.
5 Madam President, I would just
6 like to comment that in some of the comments
7 made by my colleagues, while well-intentioned,
8 they are very, very disheartening because when
9 you talk about our speaking -- speaking
10 rhetorically, well-intentioned, politicizing the
11 process, not well-founded, Madam President, I
12 believe I didn't call for a party vote. For the
13 record, you called for a party vote on that part
14 of the aisle, and I referred to the criticism
15 that this was a party vote. We didn't ask for a
16 party vote; you asked for a party vote.
17 I also want to just, for the
18 record, establish that what we are debating
19 today has been on the floor of this Senate for
20 three weeks. So, Madam President, when we hear
21 the political rhetoric in this chamber that if
22 we wanted to be open, if we want to receive
23 comments, then we would listen to the amendments
1135
1 that surprise us today, conforming within
2 minutes of the requirements of this chamber,
3 surprising us rather than three weeks ago when
4 this legislation was on the floor, well
5 intentioned legislators would say "We have some
6 input. We have some amendments. We would like
7 to engage you in some conversation," as the
8 Speaker's Ways and Means Committee has done.
9 They reached out to engage us in discussion.
10 None of that in this house, Madam
11 President. The election by the Minority has
12 been to debate something that everyone
13 recognizes needs to be done totally, totally
14 politicizing in that we won't listen. Well, we
15 put this on the floor three weeks ago welcoming
16 any input. Hearing none, any normal, common
17 sense person would feel that there were no
18 amendments, no suggestions, no discussion.
19 So I really, Madam President,
20 think that we all ought to recognize here in
21 this chamber that politicizing this serves no
22 public purpose. It's not our intent. That's
23 why these bills and this resolution have been on
1136
1 the floor for three weeks, hoping that if you
2 want to engage, you would engage, rather than
3 get into a political debate as to who did what
4 to whom, who gets the credit. That is really
5 unfortunate. The process we're trying to change
6 is too important to the people of this state.
7 Now, is this the last word? No,
8 this is not the last word. Will there be
9 further debate and discussion? Certainly, and
10 we welcome that. The amendments that have been
11 proposed, had they been suggested or recommended
12 two weeks ago, ten days ago, a week ago, we
13 would have taken as part of the discussion to
14 the floor today, and again the Assembly has
15 reached out. We are talking with them,
16 listening to them, and I believe that we will
17 get a consensus with them and we will have a
18 resolution in a bill that will be back on this
19 bill.
20 What I say, I say with the best
21 of intentions, good nature, because I see the
22 Senate Minority Leader on his feet, and I can
23 only make the judgment that he now feels like we
1137
1 must be engaged, and I hope it is in a very
2 positive way.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
5 Paterson, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Out of pride,
7 Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
9 one of your colleagues had indicated a desire to
10 speak. Do you ask if the colleague on this side
11 will -- two, in fact.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: I wanted to
13 know if my colleague would allow me to ask
14 Senator Bruno to yield for a question.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Oppenheimer, do you yield?
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh, I
18 didn't know I had the floor. Most certainly.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
20 you, Senator.
21 Senator Bruno.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
23 President.
1138
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Bruno,
2 it was my interpretation that this is the
3 process in order to suggest some changes that we
4 wanted to make a record of so that the public
5 would know that we have some suggestions with
6 respect to the participation of Minority
7 parties, with respect to how we view the
8 austerity budget, with respect to a few other
9 amendments that we would like to -- to make to
10 this procedure, and we thought that this would
11 be an apt forum to raise them.
12 There has been an ongoing
13 discussion about a lot of these issues for a
14 number of years, and we appreciate the
15 legislation that was on the floor, as you said,
16 three weeks ago, and I don't see any partisan
17 nature to it other than the fact that we're
18 aligned with each other in some respect, based
19 on the substance of the legislation.
20 So, putting all of that aside,
21 we're just saying right now that we have some
22 amendments that we think would be helpful. This
23 is a democracy and if they're not helpful, we
1139
1 would vote them down, but one of the -- the
2 tremendous aspects of government and one that
3 certainly is embodied in this chamber is not
4 only the opportunity to disagree but to record
5 it, so that there is an opportunity for review
6 through the public, through the media who is
7 examining the process today. So I don't see any
8 partisan nature to any of this.
9 We have heard your offer for
10 greater participation when legislation comes
11 forward. We'll make use of your graciousness
12 and we'll contact you to talk about it, but we
13 saw this chamber, this proceeding today as an
14 opportunity to state our point of view for the
15 record. That's not a question.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Did you
17 have a question, Senator Paterson?
18 SENATOR GOLD: Don't you think
19 so?
20 (Laughter)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Oppenheimer.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, in
1140
1 the same good humor, Senator Bruno, I would have
2 to say that we don't suffer from Alzheimer's
3 disease on this side of the aisle and we have
4 not seen overwhelming enthusiasm for suggestions
5 that we have made, but we do understand that you
6 are an open person and we do want to take you up
7 on your -- the opportunity you offered to make
8 suggestions prior to coming to the floor, and it
9 is something that I've often thought was handled
10 much better in the Assembly, where in the
11 Assembly there is a good deal more participation
12 in the drafting of legislation.
13 I do have two questions I would
14 like to ask Senator Bruno, if you would respond,
15 Senator Bruno, a -- Madam President.
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
18 Bruno yields.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Now, the
21 bill specifies the number of appropriation bills
22 which the Governor can submit, and why is there
23 a specific number that will go into this
1141
1 constitutional amendment?
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, Senator, in
3 the process for reform, you'll recollect that we
4 are, if we don't come to an agreement on a
5 budget by March 10th, calling for conference
6 committees to be established. The seven
7 appropriation bills relate to being able to
8 control the process for conference committees so
9 that you would have then seven conference
10 committees publicly debating the budget. This
11 past year we had 90-some total bills, and that
12 would have been an unwieldy process. Conference
13 committees would not work. So that's what we've
14 had in mind, consolidating the process, make it
15 more reasonable.
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That sounds
17 very realistic and having been on the only
18 conference committee that we ever had so far, I
19 think that's a welcome direction.
20 The other question I have
21 concerns an austerity budget rather than the
22 emergency appropriations which is being viewed,
23 I know by you, as very beneficial. However, I'm
1142
1 not sure that that will be -- if the Senator
2 will yield for another question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
4 will you yield? Yes.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam Presi
6 dent -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm not
10 certain that this will be an incentive to come
11 to an agreement because some people in this
12 chamber might very much welcome a budget that is
13 90 percent reduced, and I feel we might be -- we
14 would be penalizing the citizens of this state,
15 getting 90 percent where they expect 100
16 percent, and, in effect, the will of -- who
17 knows, maybe the Majority would welcome that 90
18 percent cut. What is your feeling?
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, I can
20 understand how that might be, you know, a
21 thought process, but that's not the intent here,
22 I don't believe, of any of my colleagues. What
23 we are trying to avoid by putting a budget in
1143
1 place is some of what has gone on in the past.
2 When we are forced to pick and choose which
3 emergency appropriations we will pass and then
4 try to get them passed in both houses and by the
5 Governor, that gets very unwieldy, very
6 uncertain, jeopardizes a lot of the aid that
7 people expect, the revenue-sharing, school aid,
8 Medicaid payments, welfare payments, you name
9 it. The process, as we experience it now, just
10 doesn't seem fair to the public.
11 So the real intent of this is to
12 do away with all of that and put one vehicle in
13 place and that's a budget, and the 90 percent
14 really relates to an incentive to reconcile our
15 differences and go on to do a budget based on
16 the real world, revenues matching expenditures
17 for the current year, but that's the intent.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you
19 would yield to one more question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
21 Bruno, will you yield?
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This
1144
1 prompts another question, and the question it
2 prompts is would this not be achieved with
3 saying that the appropriations in the new budget
4 would be 100 percent of the old budget?
5 SENATOR BRUNO: The problem with
6 that might be, Senator -- and again, I can
7 understand, that's a reasonable question, but if
8 the revenue of the state might be 95 percent of
9 what it was in the previous year, you would then
10 have an unconstitutional budget because it would
11 be unbalanced.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Pardon me.
13 I did not mean to laugh. We have been living
14 with that for how many years? We have had a
15 structurally imbalanced budget now for about
16 maybe, what, 14 years? We are all managing to
17 live but -
18 SENATOR BRUNO: But, Senator, in
19 answering that question, the day we pass the
20 budget it's supposed to be structurally
21 balanced. The day after it might no longer be
22 balanced but, constitutionally, we pass a
23 balanced budget on the day that we act.
1145
1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you
2 very much, Senator.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: You wish
4 to speak on the bill, Senator Dollinger?
5 Senator Dollinger, do you -
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll waive my
7 spot on the floor to Senator Onorato.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Your spot
9 to Senator Onorato.
10 Senator Onorato.
11 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator Bruno,
12 would you yield while the subject matter is
13 still fresh?
14 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
15 SENATOR ONORATO: I would like a
16 little bit of clarification on the appropriation
17 of 90 percent in the event that an agreement is
18 not reached. Is there a time frame as to how
19 long the 90 percent remains in effect? I mean,
20 is it hypothetically possible for the 90 percent
21 to remain in effect for the entire calendar year
22 or not? Is there any other time restraint to
23 bring forth a really -- a budget?
1146
1 SENATOR BRUNO: Until the new
2 budget is passed. If a new budget is not passed
3 for a full year, then you would have lived with
4 90 percent of the previous budget for that full
5 year.
6 SENATOR ONORATO: Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Are there
8 any other questions?
9 Senator Dollinger.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
11 President, will the Majority Leader yield to a
12 couple of questions?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Bruno, Senator Dollinger has requested that you
15 would yield to a couple of questions. Do you
16 yield, Senator Bruno?
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to
21 complete the point that Senator Onorato made
22 about the 90 percent requirements, so I
23 understand it, it would continue until the
1147
1 Legislature passes a budget and the budget is
2 signed by the Governor?
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. It becomes
4 the new law of the land. If we don't have a
5 budget that becomes the law of the land, then
6 the austerity budget would be the budget in
7 place and operative.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, my
9 question to you, Senator, is, doesn't that
10 intrude on the legislative prerogative if the
11 Governor of this state can veto a budget and
12 produce 90 percent less spending every single
13 year? Aren't we giving our power to control the
14 purse which we share with him over to him
15 exclusively?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, Senator, I
17 would think that would be a matter of opinion.
18 My opinion would be that it doesn't in any way
19 affect the power of this Legislature to
20 negotiate a budget and put a budget in place and
21 go forward with that budget.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But
23 theoretically -- again through you, Madam
1148
1 President. Theoretically, the Governor could
2 veto the budget and thwart the will of the
3 Majority of both houses of this Legislature to
4 control the financial plan of this state; isn't
5 that correct?
6 SENATOR BRUNO: The Governor can
7 only veto what we add -- line item veto what we
8 add. He can't veto the entire budget.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I
10 guess I'll have to think about that a little bit
11 more.
12 One other question, Madam
13 President, if I could. I appreciate the
14 Majority Leader's openness to amendments and the
15 discussion, the dialogue, but in my brief tenure
16 in this chamber, I guess I'm struck by how that
17 seems to be absent, as a matter of fact, and I
18 know you have a much longer history in this
19 chamber than I but, just for the record, could
20 you tell me historically when the last time an
21 amendment to a bill was proposed in this chamber
22 and accepted and approved, or an amendment was
23 actually made in committee and approved and
1149
1 accepted on a bill? Maybe just tell me
2 historically when the last time that happened
3 was.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Is that a
5 question to Senator Bruno?
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That is,
7 Madam President.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
9 if I understand the question correctly, when was
10 the last time that an amendment passed in this
11 house that was put on the floor while a bill was
12 on the floor?
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, when a
14 bill was on the floor.
15 SENATOR BRUNO: I can't remember
16 if my lifetime, Senator.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess -
18 Madam President. Was there any time in
19 committee, Senator, that you can remember having
20 a committee that an amendment proposed was
21 actually accepted and put on the bill in
22 committee?
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
1150
1 I can't recollect specifically, but I'm told by
2 my colleagues who are very learned, and Senator
3 Smith is nodding her head yes, the answer to
4 that is yes, that happens quite frequently in
5 the history of this Senate.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I
7 appreciate that, and that, I guess, adds to my
8 sense that maybe we're experiencing a breath of
9 fresh air here about changes in this chamber and
10 how it operates and maybe the notion that
11 amendments made on the floor would have the same
12 vitality as an amendment made in committee.
13 After all, some of us are not members of the
14 select committees that may deal with bills and
15 an idea may occur to us after the bill has come
16 out of committee and certainly it would seem to
17 me that the floor is the appropriate place to
18 make that.
19 I just note that I had a
20 discussion with Senator Leichter earlier today
21 and he talked about the phenomenon in
22 Massachusetts. They have what is called "the
23 can", which is a little box that they have at
1151
1 the front of their chamber in the Massachusetts
2 Senate in which any member can take an amendment
3 to any bill and go up and deposit it in the can
4 and ensure that there's a debate on that bill,
5 and it seems to me that that kind of amendment
6 process would produce a better product.
7 I hope that the openness that
8 we've talked about in amending bills will
9 continue because I know I, at least, have a
10 couple of amendments I would like to propose at
11 some point on this particular resolution. I'll
12 wait for my opportunity to do that, but I
13 welcome that sense that we are going to work
14 together to get a better product for the people
15 of this state. I think that's a good thing.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
17 Stachowski.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
19 President, I rise to offer an amendment that I
20 believe is at the desk.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Is there
22 an amendment at the desk? Yes, there is an
23 amendment at the desk.
1152
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I would ask
2 that we waive -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Bruno, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
6 I must object to the amendment that is being
7 presented. It's my understanding that there's a
8 resolution on the floor before us.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: That's
10 correct.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: And that a
12 resolution cannot be amended on the floor
13 without unanimous consent, and under these
14 circumstances that unanimous consent is not
15 granted.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
17 ruling of the Chair is that under Rule Number
18 VI, Section 9 (c) of the rules of the New York
19 State Senate, this amendment is out of order.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Might I just -
1153
1 I'm sorry, David. I yield to Senator Paterson.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
3 Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
5 President, I would like you to know and all of
6 the members to know that Senator Bruno is 100
7 percent right, because under Article VI, Section
8 9 -- you know, as a matter of fact, I knew that
9 and I -- I was going to actually hand it to him,
10 and I'm glad that the staff was able to tell him
11 that before I got over there because he is
12 absolutely right, and so what would be more -
13 procedure is we would like unanimous consent to
14 allow Senator Stachowski to offer his motion.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Bruno has objected.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, he
18 objected because he wanted us to know the rule.
19 Now that we know the rule, I'm asking for his
20 consent.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Paterson, the rule is the amendment is out of
23 order.
1154
1 SENATOR BRUNO: With that under
2 standing -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: I'm
4 sorry. Senator Bruno.
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
6 I believe that we made a statement, and I would
7 expect that the Chair might rule whether or not
8 anything is before us on the floor.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes.
10 Senator Bruno, I ruled that the amendment was
11 out of order according to the rules of the New
12 York State Senate.
13 The amendment is out of order.
14 Senator Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
16 President, the amendment is out of order if we
17 don't receive unanimous consent. For you to
18 make the ruling, you have to acknowledge the
19 objection. The reason that I'm rising is
20 because this is something that -- we have a few
21 amendments here. They won't take long to
22 present. We could actually accomplish the same
23 thing by discussing the bill, but we want to use
1155
1 the amendment process so that all of the members
2 of the chamber can see how we would fashion the
3 bill. It's a procedure that's used very often
4 in this -- in this chamber and we wanted to do
5 it that way, and we're just asking for a little
6 cooperation.
7 At 3:00 o'clock today -- Senator
8 Bruno has commanded us all to be in this chamber
9 at 3:00 o'clock. At 3:00 o'clock, there were
10 only 18 members in the chamber. I gave consent
11 to allow the session to start on time, and there
12 are many times that we have given consent to
13 things that may have been a little bit around
14 the rules, but it's not the rule as much as the
15 policy and the spirit of the rule, and so I
16 would ask, Madam President, that you reconsider
17 your ruling based on whether or not there really
18 is an objection because after this, if I say so
19 myself, rather poignant discussion that I have
20 offered, I don't think there will be any
21 objection.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Paterson, the rule is that the amendment is out
1156
1 of order and Senator Bruno has objected to that,
2 and barring some other rule that would be
3 developed over a long period of time, that is
4 how it is at this moment. Is there an objection
5 beyond -
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
7 President, just a point of order. Can I find
8 out which rule it is?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: It's Rule
10 VI, Section 9 (c) of the rules of the New York
11 State Senate.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
14 President, I'll accept the ruling of the Chair,
15 but I accept it with the understanding that I
16 was here the first day of session when the
17 Governor gave his State of the State message.
18 There was a spirit of cooperation in the air.
19 Both the Minority Leader and the Majority Leader
20 spoke about that cooperation. I don't see any
21 reason to have any contentiousness on an issue
22 that's just going to take a few minutes to offer
23 some amendments. It's not something that's out
1157
1 of -- it may be out of order according to the
2 rules, but it's something that's really just an
3 opportunity to allow for some of the Senators
4 who have prepared amendments, who have ideas, to
5 express them, and if that's going to be the
6 ruling, Madam Chair, then I will take that under
7 advisement and leave it at that.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Paterson, the ruling is that -
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam
11 President -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
13 Bruno, yes.
14 SENATOR BRUNO: -- may I be
15 recognized? I am moved by the arguments of
16 Senator Paterson. He is so convincing in his
17 deliberation, in his enunciation and his
18 elocution, that I believe that we would grant at
19 this time unanimous consent, and I would like to
20 state that publicly and for the record so that
21 we can move the process forward, hear these
22 very, very worthwhile amendments to this
23 resolution that is before us, and we do that in
1158
1 all good humor and good nature in reference to
2 the attitude that Senator Paterson continually
3 demonstrates by being in this chamber, being on
4 time, deliberating as he does, unlike some of
5 his colleagues.
6 So, thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
8 Stachowski, your amendment is before this
9 house.
10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I move that
11 we waive the reading of the amendment and I'll
12 explain it, and I would like to thank Senator
13 Bruno for withdrawing his objection because I
14 was really starting to get hurt by him, because
15 it was bad enough this summer when he gave me
16 some losing horses this summer, but then to
17 object to my amendment which is probably the
18 second one I've ever done here in 14 years, I
19 was just flabbergasted.
20 But anyway, to get on with the
21 amendment, it amends a section on page 2, in
22 line 9 that would add it to the part that calls
23 for a super Majority vote. Any actions that we
1159
1 would do here that would require -- result in
2 local governments having to raise their property
3 taxes in order to maintain the local services at
4 their current level -- and the reason I want to
5 do this amendment is because the biggest
6 complaint by businesses is that people in the
7 state of New York and people that talk about why
8 they don't want to put their business in or why
9 they want to move their business out is that New
10 York State is so highly taxed, and the fact of
11 the matter is that the state taxes are only 22nd
12 in the nation, but the real property tax is the
13 highest by a lot in the entire United States;
14 and so that if we do an amendment that changes
15 the process and leave out an area where we could
16 have an effect on the constantly rising real
17 property taxes, then I don't think we're really
18 doing a good job here. We miss an opportunity.
19 The fact is that it's a burden to
20 all the businesses. It's a terrible burden to
21 the people that live there. It's an extreme
22 burden to the senior citizens, and I just think
23 this this amendment makes sense. It would be an
1160
1 opportunity that we shouldn't risk missing, and
2 so with that, I move the amendment.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
4 question is on the amendment. All in favor
5 aye.
6 (Response of "Aye".)
7 Opposed?
8 There's been a -- is there a
9 request for a party vote from the Minority?
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Madam
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There is
13 a request for a party vote from the Minority.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Paterson.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Paterson.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
18 President, I want to withdraw the party vote.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
20 request has been to withdraw the party vote.
21 All those in favor.
22 (Response of "Aye".)
23 Opposed?
1161
1 (Response of "Nay".)
2 The amendment is defeated.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: No.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
5 Paterson.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sure we
7 won that amendment.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Paterson, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm pushing my
11 luck, Madam President.
12 (Laughter.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Dollinger.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
16 President, I have also an amendment at the
17 desk. I'll be very brief on it. I'd waive its
18 reading and ask that I be heard on it.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
20 Dollinger on the amendment. Senator Dollinger
21 on the amendment.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the
23 amendment. This is a simple amendment. This
1162
1 is -
2 SENATOR VELELLA: Does this one
3 also require unanimous consent?
4 SENATOR GOLD: It does.
5 SENATOR VELELLA: Can I have a
6 second to think about that? Okay.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank you
8 for the wisdom, Senator Velella.
9 Senator Dollinger.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
11 Velella and I have met on the amendment battle
12 field before. I will be very brief.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: One
14 moment, Senator Dollinger.
15 Senator Skelos, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR SKELOS: We're granting
17 unanimous consent on this amendment, but just to
18 remind the members, this unanimous consent is to
19 amend the resolution that amends the
20 Constitution, not a normal type resolution.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
22 you, Senator Skelos. Yes, that's a good
23 reminder.
1163
1 On the amendment.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the
3 amendment. This is -- Senator Skelos, the
4 Deputy Majority Leader is absolutely correct.
5 This is an amendment to the resolution to change
6 the proposed constitutional amendment that would
7 require approval by this house on two
8 consecutive sessions in order to be put on the
9 ballot in 1997.
10 My amendment is very simple. It
11 has an ally downstairs on the second floor.
12 Governor Pataki sent an Article 7 bill to this
13 house in his budget in which he asked that the
14 Legislature enact a balanced budget. The
15 current Constitution simply -- and the proposal
16 in this amendment is simply that there be a
17 balanced budget sent by the Governor to the
18 Legislature.
19 There is no command in the
20 Constitution that requires the Legislature to
21 balance the budget and make sure that its
22 revenues and its expenses are balanced. This
23 amendment would do that. It would create a
1164
1 balanced budget. It would require the
2 Legislature to pass a budget that is fully in
3 balance. I believe it would bring the kind of
4 fiscal discipline that the Majority Leader has
5 talked about. The Temporary President has
6 talked about it. This would be the final
7 touch. It would make sure that there's a
8 balanced budget that is passed by this
9 Legislature.
10 I strongly urge its adoption.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
12 question is on the amendment. All those in
13 favor, aye.
14 (Response of "Aye".)
15 Opposed?
16 (Response of "Nay".)
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote,
18 Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: It's been
20 defeated.
21 Senator Paterson, why do you
22 rise?
23 SENATOR PATERSON: We're
1165
1 requesting a party vote on this.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There has
3 been a request for a party vote.
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the
5 negative.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 20, nays 36,
10 party vote in the negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
12 amendment is defeated.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
15 Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: I would ask
17 unanimous consent of everyone, including Senator
18 Velella -- yeah, I don't want you to think about
19 it -- to offer an amendment and waive its
20 reading and ask for a moment to explain it.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Gold on the amendment. Unanimous consent has
23 been agreed to.
1166
1 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
2 the amendment that I'm offering would take out
3 of the bill the ban on continuing resolutions,
4 and I would make just a couple of quick comments
5 in response to Senator Bruno before I get into
6 this.
7 Firstly, you know, in terms of
8 the suggestion of a 90 percent -- I'm sorry -
9 continuing resolution, I want the Majority in
10 this house to understand that you are voting for
11 continuation of 90 percent funding of unworthy
12 programs. Just think about what I said. You're
13 looking at it like you think you're going to cut
14 90 -- 10 percent or you're going to make cuts in
15 programs that you think we like, but there are
16 programs that you don't like and want to get rid
17 of, and you're going to vote to continue the
18 funding of those programs 90 percent when they
19 probably should be taken out of a budget.
20 At any rate, my amendment talks
21 about these continuing resolutions, and if there
22 ever was a situation that showed the folly of
23 that kind of a proposal, it's what just went on
1167
1 in Washington.
2 Now, there's a group that
3 everybody refers to these Republican freshman
4 that are all full of this and vinegar and
5 whatever, and they managed to convince some of
6 their colleagues that there shouldn't be a
7 continuing resolution, and lo and behold, what
8 happened? We had chaos in this country and
9 apparently the Republican Party took some polls
10 and found out that it was blowing up in your
11 face, and so they had to get those rather
12 obstreperous young men and women to change their
13 tune and, of course, now they understand what
14 must be done.
15 Now, I will tell you I respect
16 Senator Nanula but I absolutely disagree with
17 him on this payroll business and taking the
18 money. I came up here to work and my
19 constituents said to me, "Manny, you keep
20 fighting the budget until it's a good budget,
21 and that's what I'm paying you for," and I took
22 the money and I always will because I worked
23 very hard for it, but the point is that no
1168
1 matter how hard I work and Senator Stafford
2 works -- Senator Stafford, I hope likes me. I
3 certainly like him, but sometimes we don't
4 agree, so you talk and you work, and you work it
5 out, but the concept that while we're trying to
6 work it out, the state should go kaflooey, is
7 ridiculous.
8 Now Senator Bruno says, Well, you
9 don't need that if you got a 90 percent
10 austerity budget, and I'm telling that you 90
11 percent is ridiculous. You don't fund things
12 aren't worth it; you end them, and the concept
13 of a continuing resolution, in my opinion, is
14 one way of wreaking havoc in this state and I
15 would suggest we drop that from the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The vote
17 is on -- vote is on the amendment. All those in
18 favor, aye.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
20 the affirmative.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the
22 negative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Party
1169
1 vote. Call the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 20, nays 36,
4 party vote in the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
6 amendment has been defeated.
7 Senator Dollinger.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
9 President, I ask unanimous consent to place an
10 amendment before the house, ask to waive its
11 reading and give me a brief opportunity to
12 explain it.
13 SENATOR RATH: No objection.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This too is a
15 simple amendment. It is an amendment that
16 incorporates a principle that I have fought for
17 and some of them voted against last year, the
18 so-called debt reform package, and in fact
19 during the campaign and in November I campaigned
20 against the debt reform because I don't believe
21 that the passage of these acts and as it was
22 presented to the voters, adequately represented
23 the kinds of controls on excessive public debt
1170
1 that we need in this state.
2 This amendment is very simple.
3 It bans that back-door borrowing. I would point
4 out that, if this amendment were passed into law
5 by this Legislature and put into effect by the
6 voters, $3.1 billion of new debt that we're
7 going to incur this year without voter approval
8 would not be a part of this budget.
9 It seems to me it's time we stood
10 up and said we're going to ban back-door
11 borrowing. We're really going to ban it. This
12 budget would allow it only in very isolated
13 emergency cases and we would begin to retreat
14 from the kind of fiscal excess which everyone in
15 this house has stood up and criticized in the
16 time that I've been in it.
17 This budget amendment will do
18 something about banning the kind of borrowing
19 that we should not be engaged in and which all
20 of us admit threatens the fiscal stability of
21 this state.
22 I urge the adoption of this
23 amendment.
1171
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The vote
2 is on the amendment. All those in favor aye.
3 (Response of "Aye.")
4 Opposed?
5 (Response of "Nay.")
6 The amendment has been defeated.
7 Call the roll. This is a Constitutional
8 Amendment resolution. Please call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
11 SENATOR GOLD: I'd like to
12 explain my vote.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Gold to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Madam
16 President.
17 It's clear that, whether this has
18 been on the floor for three weeks, whether it
19 went out of Finance to Rules, no matter whatever
20 happened, that this can't possibly take effect
21 under the best of circumstances until after the
22 election of November '97. In order to do that,
23 we obviously would have to pass this by the end
1172
1 of this session.
2 But this doesn't deal with this
3 year's budget. This deals with a process and
4 part of the process ought to be negotiation and
5 there's no reason why today we have to pass a
6 Republican closed ear/closed eye version of what
7 reform ought to be.
8 I think that the suggestions made
9 by Senator Stachowski, Senator Dollinger and by
10 others are worthy. I think Senator Paterson -
11 Padavan hit it -- Paterson, I'm sorry, hit it
12 right on the head when he said this is the forum
13 for handling amendments. We don't have to have
14 a bill on the floor and then go grovel to
15 Senator Bruno or anybody else to consider it and
16 hope that, if we're quiet enough in our
17 suggestion, it will take effect and they'll hold
18 a press conference.
19 I assume that, when they voted
20 against the proposal today, they did it proudly
21 hoping the public would know where they stand,
22 or am I wrong?
23 At any rate, Madam President,
1173
1 this is the forum. We did it properly and
2 there's enough time to negotiate a proper bill
3 whether it be with Assemblyman Silver or the
4 Minority in this house or the Minority in the
5 other house.
6 This proposal as it is is
7 terrible. Is it in every word terrible? No. Is
8 every word terrible? No. But when you put it
9 all together you've got mush. I vote no.
10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explain my
11 vote.
12 Madam President, I rise to
13 explain my vote. Although there's some good
14 ideas in here, I think there's some problems and
15 by the Majority Leader's own words the Assembly
16 has reached out to discuss the issue. That
17 leads me to believe that there's obviously going
18 to be some changes before the the final version
19 of this, the version that will go on to the next
20 Legislature, being done, so I don't see a reason
21 to support a bill that I know is flawed.
22 I have a fear about limiting it
23 to a number as low as ten on budget bills
1174
1 because I don't want to see a lot of budget
2 bills that combine things like Quick Pick and
3 tax cuts like last year when a lot of people who
4 may not have supported Quick Pick ended up
5 voting for it because they supported tax cuts,
6 so that kind of fear, and maybe the kinds of
7 exotic combinations with the limited number of
8 budget bills is another area where I find a
9 problem.
10 So that I think, since it is,
11 from the Majority side's own comments, there is
12 going to be negotiation with the Assembly and
13 there's going to be changes, I don't see the
14 rush to do this bill, and for that reason I
15 can't support it.
16 I vote no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Announce
18 the results.
19 Are you on your feet, Senator
20 Skelos, to speak? Senator Skelos, are you on
21 your feet -
22 SENATOR SKELOS: No, no, I'm just
23 waiting.
1175
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
2 Mendez.
3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Madam President,
4 I rise in support of this bill. I do know very
5 well that this is not going to be the final
6 product. I do know very well that negotiations
7 will have to keep on proceeding with the
8 Assembly so that finally we will be able to get
9 our -- to get done with the horrible budget
10 problem under which we have been functioning at
11 least throughout the entire 18 years in which I
12 have been so fortunate to serve here.
13 I absolutely -- I have reached
14 the point that I say anything but what we have
15 would be -- because what we have is truly a
16 disservice to all the constituents of both
17 Republicans and Democrats, so I vote aye.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The clerk
19 will announce the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar Number 58 are Senators
22 Abate, Babbush, Connor, Gold, Kruger, Leichter,
23 Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato,
1176
1 Paterson, Santiago, Smith, Stachowski and
2 Waldon. Ayes 41, nays 15.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
4 resolution is adopted.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Stachowski.
10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
11 President, may I have unanimous consent to be
12 recorded in the negative on Calendar 59?
13 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Without
15 objection. Thank you.
16 Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
18 is there any further housekeeping at the desk?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There is
20 no housekeeping at the desk.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Then I move the
22 Senate stand adjourned until Wednesday, February
23 7th at 11:00 a.m. sharp.
1177
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Without
2 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
3 Wednesday, February 7th, at 11:00 a.m., sharp.
4 (Whereupon at 5:46 p.m., the
5 Senate adjourned.)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23