Regular Session - April 16, 1996
3343
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 April 16, 1996
10 3:00 p.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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3344
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their place, the staff to find their
5 places. Ask everybody in the chamber, including
6 those in the gallery, to rise and join me in
7 saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may we
11 bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed.)
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, April 15th. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April 14th,
18 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
3345
1 Messages from the Assembly.
2 Messages from the Governor.
3 Reports of standing committees.
4 Reports of select committees.
5 Communications and reports from
6 state officers.
7 Motions and resolutions.
8 The Chair recognizes Senator
9 Farley.
10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 On page 28 -- this is on behalf
13 of Senator Sears. On page 28, I offer the
14 following amendments to Calendar 597, Senate
15 Print 5917 and I ask that that bill retain its
16 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 amendments to Calendar Number 597 are received
19 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
20 the Third Reading Calendar.
21 Senator Farley.
22 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
23 Senator Johnson, please place a sponsor's star
3346
1 on Calendar Number 411.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
3 Number 411 is starred at the request of the
4 sponsor.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 at this time if we could adopt the Resolution
8 Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar. All
11 those in favor signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye".)
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (There was no response.)
15 The Resolution Calendar is
16 adopted.
17 Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
19 President.
20 There is a privileged resolution
21 at the desk by Senator Mendez. I would like
22 that title be read and then move for its
23 adoption.
3347
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson, you're correct. There is a privileged
3 resolution at the desk. I'll ask the Secretary
4 to read the title.
5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
6 Mendez, Legislative Resolution honoring the
7 lifetime achievements of Henry Nichols.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 question is on the resolution. All those in
10 favor signify by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye".)
12 Opposed, nay.
13 (There was no response.)
14 The resolution is adopted.
15 Senator Seward.
16 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
17 President. I believe there's a privileged
18 resolution at the desk. I would ask that the
19 title be read and the members adopt the
20 resolution.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
22 a privileged resolution at the desk. Direct the
23 Secretary to read the title.
3348
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 Seward, Legislative Resolution honoring Robert
3 W. Mauer upon the occasion of his designation as
4 recipient of the 1996 Citizen of the Year Award
5 by the Otsego County Chamber of Commerce.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 question is on the resolution. All those in
8 favor signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye".)
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The resolution is adopted.
13 Senator Skelos, that completes
14 the resolutions we have. What's your pleasure?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 at this time if we could take up the non
17 controversial calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Ask the
19 Secretary to read the non-controversial
20 calendar.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
22 Calendar Number 18, by Senator Cook, Senate
23 Print 4875-A, an act to amend the Agriculture
3349
1 and Markets Law, in relation to agricultural
2 practices.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 515, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2105, an
10 act to amend the Social Services Law and the
11 Public Health Law, in relation to disclosure of
12 HIV-related information.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Secretary will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
16 act shall take effect -
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 518, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4951-B,
22 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
23 relation to child day care.
3350
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
4 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 521, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 293, an act
13 to amend the County Law, in relation to review
14 and approval of names for rights-of-way.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect on the first day of
19 January.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
3351
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 526, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3360, an act
5 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
6 to authorizing municipal corporations to
7 establish volunteer cemetery maintenance and
8 cleanup programs.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 530, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6123, an
21 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
22 relation to buildings that are part of urban
23 development action area projects.
3352
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 531, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6124, an
13 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
14 relation to powers of municipalities in carrying
15 out urban renewal plans.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
3353
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 539, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6385, an
5 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
6 limitations of expenses of life insurance.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 611, by Senator Present, Senate Print 768, an
19 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
20 relation to eligibility for youthful offender
21 status.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will read the last section.
3354
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the first day of
3 November.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is passed.
10 Senator Skelos, that completes
11 the calling of the non-controversial calendar.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
13 could you please call up Calendar Number 515, by
14 Senator Saland.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read Calendar Number 515.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 515, Senator Saland, Senate Print 2105, an act
19 to amend the Social Services Law and the Public
20 Health Law, in relation to disclosure of HIV
21 related information.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Skelos.
3355
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Read the last
2 section.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
6 act shall take effect 90 days after it shall
7 have become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could now
16 move to the controversial calendar, I believe
17 there's one, Calendar Number 18.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Secretary will -- the Secretary will read
20 Calendar Number 18.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
22 Calendar Number 18, by Senator Cook, Senate
23 Print 4875-A, an act to amend the Agriculture
3356
1 and Markets Law, in relation to agricultural
2 practices.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 18 has
6 been requested by the Acting Minority Leader,
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
9 this bill has been debated earlier, so I won't
10 go into it in great detail, except to indicate
11 that this does not, contrary to some information
12 that's being spread about, change the regulation
13 as it relates to how pesticides or any other
14 substance will be applied. These are the
15 regulations that apply to the application of
16 pesticides. They remain in effect.
17 All this bill says is that the
18 aerial application of substances, whatever -- it
19 could be seed. It could be fertilizer. It
20 could be pesticides -- is an agricultural
21 practice and accepted agricultural practice, and
22 that the practice itself is acceptable and
23 cannot be challenged, but that doesn't change
3357
1 the regulations that apply to the manner in
2 which pesticides specifically are applied to the
3 licensure for applying, for the inspection of
4 how it's applied or any of the other regulations
5 that relate thereto.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 I don't want to take up much
11 time. Senator Cook and I debated this bill at
12 some length earlier this session. We have an
13 issue of aerial spraying and we also have an
14 issue of litigation for those who could be
15 afflicted by anything caused by aerial
16 spraying.
17 A number of members voted against
18 this bill. In fact, I think my work in this
19 chamber should be reflected by the disposition
20 of this bill earlier this session. So I will
21 just spend the rest of whatever time I would
22 have allotted to just reflect on that magic
23 moment, and we would like a slow roll call on
3358
1 this bill.
2 SENATOR COOK: Would you lay the
3 bill aside. I think that the Minority has some
4 very important things they want to do today, and
5 I wouldn't want to interfere with it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 will be laid aside for the day.
8 Senator Skelos, that completes
9 the calling of the controversial calendar.
10 Senator Onorato, why do you
11 rise?
12 SENATOR ONORATO: Did we record
13 the vote on Calendar Number 18?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 was laid aside, sir.
16 SENATOR ONORATO: Okay. Thank
17 you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: May we please
21 take up motions to discharge.
22 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3359
1 Tully, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR TULLY: Would Senator
3 Skelos yield to a question?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Senator
5 Tully.
6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President,
7 would you ask Senator Skelos whether or not the
8 matters we're about to discuss on the motions to
9 discharge are substantive matters or procedural
10 matters?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Skelos, do you wish to make a statement on that
13 matter?
14 SENATOR SKELOS: In my opinion,
15 they are politically procedural.
16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you,
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would the
19 Deputy Majority Leader -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson -- Senator Paterson, as the Acting
22 Minority Leader, we have a number of motions to
23 discharge. At the top of my list, I have one by
3360
1 Senator Waldon. I know he's not in the
2 chamber. Is there some procedure, some order
3 that you would like us to take these up?
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. Thank
5 you, Mr. President.
6 Would you please recognize
7 Senator Dollinger, Senator Hoffmann, Senator
8 Leichter and then Senator Waldon. That's the
9 batting order.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You said
11 Senator Dollinger, Senator Hoffmann, Senator
12 Leichter and then Senator Waldon, is that
13 correct? You've got Senator Waldon batting
14 cleanup?
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Batting clean
16 up.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
18 Senator Dollinger, you have two motions to
19 discharge. Which one would you like read
20 first?
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
22 President. Before we start, I would like the
23 record to reflect that I have been described as
3361
1 the speedy lead-off hitter. In the first time
2 of my personal career, I have earned that claim,
3 Mr. President. So I would like to thank my
4 Deputy Minority Leader for giving me that.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: "Fantasy"
6 is the word of the day, I think, Senator
7 Dollinger. Which one would you like to take
8 up?
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The one on
10 the inaugural committee, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Which
12 would be Senate 4640, I believe.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's
14 correct, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Dollinger, Senate Print 4640, an act to amend
19 the Election Law, in relation to contributions
20 to inaugural committees.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, I would move that the bill be
23 discharged from committee.
3362
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you
2 like to be recognized on the motion?
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, please.
4 On the motion to discharge.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
6 recognizes Senator Dollinger on the motion to
7 discharge.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President, there are few times, I guess, in
10 the -
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Dollinger, excuse me just a minute. There's a
13 great deal of noise and disruption going on on
14 the floor. Can we show our fellow Senators some
15 respect?
16 Thank you for the interruption,
17 Senator Dollinger.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 There are few times in this body
21 every year when the public's confidence in
22 government and our credibility among the voters
23 is put to a test. The bill that I seek to
3363
1 discharge from committee today is a bill that I
2 think will go a long way to re-establishing the
3 public's confidence in its government.
4 What this bill seeks to do is to
5 require that any inauguration committee be
6 treated like every other campaign committee in
7 New York State, that it be required to disclose
8 to the public where it raises its money and how
9 it spends its money, and that it's subscribed to
10 the rules that we require of everyone that
11 participates in the political process by giving
12 money; that it's subscribed to the rules on
13 limits on campaign contributions on an annual
14 basis; that it contain the types of disclosure
15 of information that anyone running for office is
16 now currently required to give, but I don't
17 think that I need to speak persuasively on this
18 floor to tell you why this bill ought to come
19 out of committee and be a part of the law of the
20 state of New York.
21 Let me just give you a sample of
22 the editorial judgments of newspapers in New
23 York State. Let their voice ring out and
3364
1 perhaps you'll understand why this bill should
2 become a part of New York law.
3 From the Post Standard in
4 Syracuse dated December 13th, 1995, it describes
5 the Pataki administration talking about ethical
6 propriety is a little like Prince Charles
7 talking about fidelity. Neither is known for
8 their expertise on the subjects. Ethics require
9 information to be revealed, not covered up.
10 Ethics require promises to be kept, not broken.
11 Ethics requires telling the truth.
12 As you all know, the Pataki
13 administration had an inaugural party in January
14 of 1995, frankly, in my judgment as anyone who
15 wins the office of the state of New York is
16 entitled in their discretion to decide to throw
17 a party for the people of this state. What I
18 believe, however, they are not entitled to do is
19 to ignore all the campaign finance disclosure
20 laws when they raise money for that party, when
21 the appearance of influenced peddling is
22 widespread in the wake of all of that
23 fund-raising. To this date, we don't know how
3365
1 much was raised. From my point of view, it's
2 not for lack of my own trying.
3 I started writing letters to the
4 Governor of this state on April 24th, 1995. I
5 asked him to fulfill a promise that he made in
6 January of 1995, to simply abide by the laws of
7 this state and to disclose of amounts that have
8 been contributed to his inaugural committee, how
9 much had been contributed, how much had been
10 spent, who gave it and who got it. A very
11 simple question, one that this body in passing
12 finance disclosure laws has always agreed has
13 been in the public interest.
14 The Post Standard told you that
15 Governor Pataki talking about ethics is like
16 Prince Charles talking about fidelity. What
17 about this comment from Russ Davis writing in
18 Utica? "Pataki leads the most ethically
19 bankrupt administration since the days of Warren
20 Harding. He's doing more stonewalling than
21 Richard Nixon. One of those presidents died in
22 disgrace because he was an out-of-the-loop nice
23 guy in a flock of 'gimme' birds. The other had
3366
1 to resign in disgrace for knowing the truth but
2 peddling lies. The facts make it clear
3 something is rotten in Albany. It's time to
4 quit" and, again, they use this word, "covering
5 up". "It's not a case of good or bad but which
6 evil. Has Pataki been spinning fiction with his
7 protestations of the ignorant innocence or has
8 he been out of the loop while state government
9 has been up for sale? Enough games. Enough
10 cutesy, little sound bites. Enough fiction.
11 It's time the people learned the truth."
12 How do they get to that truth?
13 We passed a law that requires inaugural
14 committees to disclose where they received their
15 money and how they spent it, which is the
16 subject of this bill.
17 What about the Albany Times Union
18 in responding to the Governor's -- the
19 disclosure in the New York Times about how
20 campaign finances or how campaign contributors
21 had given to the inaugural committee? They
22 pointed out that the explanations offered by the
23 Governor from the second floor don't wash, when
3367
1 they said the Times had no trouble tracking down
2 some of the donors whose generosity exceeded
3 state limits on campaign gifts. One
4 pharmaceutical company gave $25,000, five times
5 the campaign contribution. That same company
6 had $1.7 million worth of contracts with the
7 state for medical products and services. Two
8 banks gave generously as well, and the state
9 just happens to use them for pension deposits
10 and low interest loan programs. "With one big
11 name contributor after another being identified
12 in the press", the Times Union went on to say,
13 "The Pataki administration might argue that it
14 doesn't matter whether the books were open or
15 not. That won't wash either. A complete
16 listing is in order if the public is to judge
17 where the administration has compromised
18 itself. Another explanation is also due why
19 some contributors were so grossly allowed to
20 exceed state guidelines. The most important
21 explanation of all has to do with the Governor
22 himself, namely, why he promised an accounting
23 for a fund that sponsored people's reception,
3368
1 only to shut those same people out when that
2 accounting was due."
3 The Governor has promised to
4 produce this information. He knows it's in the
5 public interest to promise this information, but
6 yet he stonewalls the efforts of this
7 Legislature and our colleagues in the Assembly
8 to find out where those funds came from.
9 In the Daily News, April 1st,
10 1996, editorial writers continued to argue for
11 the passage of this bill and the disclosure of
12 that information. In describing Governor
13 Pataki's refusal to publicly name the donors,
14 the Daily News noted "The reasons have changed
15 with the seasons. First thing Pataki said the
16 list was confidential because the Governor had
17 to be shielded from knowing who was on it, lest
18 he feel obliged to pay favorites. What is he a
19 mushroom; he has to be kept in the dark? Then
20 came the excuse that the donors were promised
21 confidentiality to shield them from harassment
22 from Pataki's political enemies. Next, the dog
23 ate the list? Pataki must stop the silly
3369
1 defenses and come clean. He must release the
2 donors' names, show how much was raised, how
3 much was spent, how it was spent and much -- how
4 much is left."
5 One other comment from the Press
6 and Sun Bulletin. This is back in November of
7 1995. "The inaugural bash used no government
8 funds and Pataki was not obligated to apply
9 campaign contribution limits to it." I debate
10 that, but that's what the editorial says, "but
11 the Governor's instincts were correct when he
12 promised to abide by the limits and reveal the
13 campaign contributors. When the Governor or any
14 politicians accept large donations, the public
15 is bound to wonder if his administration will
16 give donors interests special consideration."
17 That's the issue that this bill
18 presents. Is the government of the state of New
19 York for sale? Is it for sale by George Pataki
20 and his administration or by anyone else?
21 Whenever anyone gives their money to a public
22 official, the people of this state are entitled
23 to know who gave it and they're entitled to know
3370
1 what it was spent for so that they can trace the
2 pattern of those funds and assure themselves
3 that this government is not for sale.
4 I think we need to send a message
5 to the second floor that we in this chamber have
6 a high standard of ethics, that we in this
7 chamber who have to report our contributions,
8 who have to give an accounting of where our
9 funds go, that we subscribe to an ethical
10 standard that every elected official in this
11 state should subscribe to, whether they're in
12 this chamber, as George Pataki was two years
13 ago, or whether they sit on the second floor as
14 the Governor of this state.
15 I'm afraid, my colleagues, that
16 the odor of potential corruption that this
17 failure on the part of the Governor to realize
18 has permeated this state. Look at the editorial
19 writers and what they'll tell you is that they
20 can smell it in Syracuse. They can smell it in
21 Utica. They can smell it in Buffalo. They can
22 smell it in Rochester. They can smell it in New
23 York City. I have urged this Governor to reveal
3371
1 the names of these donors, to make it available
2 to the public. He has refused to do so.
3 The time has come for the members
4 of this chamber to stand up and say that we have
5 an ethical standard that we will not permit any
6 departures from. We will not permit the
7 Governor to depart from it. We will not permit
8 any elected official in this state. If we fail
9 to pass this law, I'm afraid that the message
10 that we send is that there is one person in this
11 state who is above the law. It is our sworn
12 duties as members of this body to ensure that
13 that never happens, that we all abide by the
14 same laws and the same standards, and that we
15 don't send to the public a confusing message
16 about how certain laws apply to them, but if
17 you're rich enough and powerful enough to be
18 elected the Governor of the state of New York,
19 you are exempt from those laws.
20 It seems to me that that would be
21 a tragedy for democracy, a tragedy for the
22 people of this state and destroy the public's
23 confidence in this government. I believe that
3372
1 this bill embodies nothing less, and that in
2 order to restore that confidence, this bill
3 should come before this house today and should
4 become a part of our law, so that we can march
5 down the road to a better informed, better
6 enlightened public that has confidence that its
7 state government is not being bought.
8 Mr. President, I urge that this
9 bill be considered by the house and that the
10 motion to discharge be approved.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
12 recognizes Senator Gold on the motion.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
14 much, Mr. President.
15 Mr. President, first of all, I
16 ought to be very clear. There's no doubt in my
17 mind that an individual -- forget the title
18 "Governor" -- that an individual named George
19 Pataki is an honest man. I happen to believe
20 that. I also happen to believe that there are
21 other honest people and that whatever the game
22 is or the guidelines, it should apply to all as
23 Senator Dollinger pointed out.
3373
1 So I understand that in the
2 nation's capital, the junior Senator from New
3 York has suggested that there be certain
4 guidelines as it applies to an investigation
5 which involves the President, which guidelines
6 are completely different than the guidelines he
7 wanted when the United States Senate and others
8 were looking into matters that he was involved
9 with. Without judging the junior Senator, it
10 seems to me that guidelines ought to apply in
11 cases the same way.
12 I started out by saying that I
13 believe personally knowing an individual named
14 George Pataki, that I believe that individual to
15 be honest. I think that individual makes a big
16 mistake when you are honest and you don't give
17 the public the total perception that it deserves
18 of the honesty of a situation, and it is not
19 enough to say that I am an honest person and,
20 therefore, you should not raise the questions.
21 I do not think that is fair. I think that when
22 you are in public life, people are allowed to
23 ask you questions that the average citizen may
3374
1 decide to answer or not answer, and that is the
2 issue of the bill.
3 The issue of this bill is not the
4 personal honesty of an individual, but whether
5 or not the public has the right to not only have
6 an honest public servant but to feel and
7 perceive that the person is honest and,
8 therefore, what this bill does is just give an
9 assurance to the public that they deserve.
10 Now, this is very much in line
11 with what Senator Dollinger and I and others
12 have cried for for years in terms of the
13 Legislature as a whole. We are very delighted
14 that after our urging and pushing and pushing,
15 we finally got you to the well and you are going
16 to release the numbers, financial numbers of the
17 New York State Senate. You promised to do that
18 for the first three months of this year and have
19 it as a continuing basis. That was years of
20 pulling and pushing, and we tried to explain to
21 you that we weren't looking to make these
22 numbers public because we were calling you
23 dishonest. We wanted the numbers public because
3375
1 the public has a right to see the numbers, and
2 if they are honest -- and in the case of a
3 governor, I certainly hope they're honest. I
4 certainly believe they're honest, but in the
5 case of a governor, let the public go to sleep
6 at night without there being stories questioning
7 whether or not the state's for sale, whether he
8 is favoring contributors. I don't believe it is
9 and I don't believe he does.
10 We've had all -- most of us at
11 any rate in this chamber -- had the opportunity
12 to serve with George Pataki, and while he was
13 not my druthers for Governor on the basis of
14 political philosophy, I never had a bad word to
15 say about him as a human being or as to his
16 morality, and all that this bill does, it's an
17 urging on the part of Senator Dollinger, for
18 every citizen of this state to be able to go to
19 sleep at night with the same faith in the
20 honesty and integrity in the Governor as I have
21 and as I assume everybody has.
22 So let's not divert the issue. I
23 would support this bill if it was the exact
3376
1 similar situation and Mario Cuomo was the
2 Governor or anybody was the Governor. The issue
3 is the public's right to know and who the
4 particular player is, be it George Pataki, be it
5 Bill Clinton or Alphonse D'Amato, you either
6 have to take the position that the public has a
7 right to know in all of these situations or not.
8 Those of us on this side of the
9 aisle are going to vote for the public's right
10 to know.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
12 President -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Dollinger.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- would
16 Senator Gold yield to a question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Gold, do you yield to question from Senator
19 Dollinger?
20 SENATOR GOLD: I didn't do it
21 right?
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3377
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Did you know
3 that President Bill Clinton, who had an
4 inaugural party, released the names of the
5 people who donated to the inaugural event that
6 he held in Washington and also demonstrated
7 exactly where all of the funds went do? Were
8 you aware of that?
9 SENATOR GOLD: I wouldn't have
10 expected anything less.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Were you
12 aware that Rudy Giuliani who was elected mayor
13 of the city of New York, a Republican from New
14 York State, also did exactly the same thing,
15 that he held an inaugural event and that he
16 raised money for the inaugural event and that he
17 disclosed who gave him the money and where it
18 was spent? Were you aware that he followed that
19 pattern as well?
20 SENATOR GOLD: I don't agree with
21 everything that the mayor does, but he's does
22 some good things, and following the example of
23 the President was one of them.
3378
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you be
2 surprised that Christie Whitman, the Republican
3 Governor of the state of New Jersey, had an
4 inaugural event, raised monies for the
5 inaugural, took -- gave the public an accounting
6 of exactly where she raised the money and where
7 it was spent?
8 SENATOR GOLD: In that case, I'm
9 shocked but I'm delighted.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would it seem
11 to you like that was a pretty good trend to
12 follow?
13 SENATOR GOLD: I think it's a
14 terrific trend, and I'm glad you asked those
15 questions.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
17 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
18 motion?
19 Senator Leichter.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
21 we had a very clear indication why this bill is
22 necessary, and if you take a look at the history
23 of what has happened in regard to the Pataki
3379
1 inaugural committee and the commitments that
2 were made to the public, when that inaugural
3 committee was formed, a promise was made that
4 all contributions would be made public, and
5 that's the practice, I think, that the public
6 expected, certainly one that the public demanded
7 and clearly one that the public has a right to.
8 However, as time passed, there
9 was no disclosure. When Senator Dollinger -
10 and I think he deserves great credit for having
11 served the public in pursuing this issue -
12 asked, "Where are the records", he was
13 stonewalled. When others asked, they were
14 stonewalled. When the Assembly asked, the
15 Assembly was stonewalled. The Assembly finally
16 had to issue subpoenas. I thought one of the
17 more amusing things that has happened in the
18 Capitol in some time was that, I believe it was
19 two weeks ago one of the assemblyman, I think it
20 was Assemblyman Tonko, said that there is
21 evidence that some of the money from the
22 inaugural committee went to pay off campaign
23 expenses, expenses of the Pataki campaign, and
3380
1 the Governor's spokesperson said, "That's
2 outrageous. It's totally false". So the press
3 said, "Well, would you tell us why it's false?
4 Just show us the record." "Oh, we're not going
5 to do that." Well, that shows you the
6 importance of a bill like this to overcome this
7 sort of stonewalling and this refusal to be
8 honest with the public.
9 I don't know whether it was
10 Justice Brandeis or Justice Douglas that said
11 that the best disinfectant is openness, is
12 public disclosure, and that's all really that
13 this bill asks for. I think that it's an
14 accepted principle of American Democratic life
15 and American electoral life that the public has
16 a right to know who contributes to campaigns,
17 who contributes to public officials, so that the
18 public can judge if there's been some undue
19 influence or something else which the public
20 should know and which may explain why particular
21 action was taken by the public.
22 In this instance, we have a
23 departure. We have a refusal to abide by the
3381
1 rules, a refusal to keep promises. One can only
2 conjecture why this is being done, why this
3 steadfast refusal to make these records public.
4 Is it a cover up? If so, why? What has
5 happened to the money? Why not make it public.
6 Is there something to hide here? The public has
7 a right to know, and we as legislators have an
8 obligation to see that inaugural committees are
9 covered by the laws requiring disclosure of
10 campaign contributions.
11 The Governor has an obligation to
12 make that public, and we as legislators have an
13 obligation to see that the law does not have
14 this sort of an exception, but that inaugural
15 committees are covered. You can stonewall only
16 that long, but if you study the history of
17 American politics, eventually you're going to
18 end off much worse than if you came forth
19 initially and said, "Here it is", and as
20 legislators, the Republicans in this house can
21 stonewall. You can stand with your Governor and
22 tell the public you've got no right to this
23 information. We thumb our nose at you. We
3382
1 don't have to keep our promises, but I'll tell
2 you, you will end up paying for it.
3 I hope that you will let this do
4 the right thing. Let this bill out for a vote.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
6 any other Senator wishing to speak on the motion
7 to discharge?
8 (There was no response.)
9 Hearing none, then a vote in the
10 affirmative is a vote to discharge the bill from
11 committee. A vote in the negative is a vote to
12 defeat the motion and leave the bill in the
13 committee. The question then is on the motion
14 to discharge. All those in favor signify by
15 saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Senator Paterson, why do you
18 rise?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 we would like a party vote in the affirmative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will call the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3383
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays
2 37. Party vote.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 motion is defeated.
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
7 just for the record, since today is going to be
8 "Motion to Discharge Day", the one day we all
9 look forward to every year, the Minority has
10 informed us that Senate 2553, Senate 5794-B and
11 Senate 6645, those -- the motions to discharge
12 on those bills will not be brought this year.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
14 you, Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Velella, why do you rise?
18 SENATOR VELELLA: If I may, just
19 as a notice to my colleagues, I'm going to be
20 listening to a lot of the debate on the motions
21 to discharge and just in case anyone's in their
22 office, I would like them to know that there is
23 a possibility there may be some slow roll calls
3384
1 called on some of these motions since they are
2 of such importance. I'm sure all the Minority
3 would like to be present and be in the chamber
4 to vote in support of their colleagues and be
5 here to be recognized as to where they stand on
6 the issue. So there may be some slow roll
7 calls.
8 Thank you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
10 you, Senator Velella.
11 The Secretary will call the next
12 motion to discharge. I believe it's Senate
13 6456, by Senator Dollinger.
14 Senator Paterson, why do you
15 rise?
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
17 actually, Senator Dollinger would be willing to
18 wait, and if you would now -- before you do
19 that, how did the last motion turn out?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 recorded vote was ayes 19, the nays 37. Party
22 votes were recorded in both. The motion was
23 defeated by a narrow margin.
3385
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
2 Well, we'll keep working. Would
3 you please recognize Senator Hoffmann.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Hoffmann, do you wish to have your first motion
6 to discharge read at this time?
7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes, I do, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will then read. I informed, Senator
11 Hoffmann, that you wish to take them in order,
12 Senate 2069, Senate 2070, Senate 2072, Senate
13 2073, Senate 2074 and then conclude with 2071,
14 is that correct?
15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's
16 correct, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
18 right. The Secretary will read the motion to
19 discharge on Senate 2069.
20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
21 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2069, an act to amend the
22 Public Officers Law, in relation to exempting
23 political committees, conferences and caucuses
3386
1 from the provisions of Open Meetings Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
3 recognizes Senator Hoffmann on the motion to
4 discharge.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President.
7 I have been looking forward to
8 this opportunity for two years now. Some of you
9 may remember that I did not introduce these
10 motions a year ago, giving the new Governor and
11 the new Majority Leader an opportunity to bring
12 about some of the changes that we had heard
13 about during the campaign that preceded the
14 beginning of this term, but I do believe that
15 the time has come to introduce these motions
16 once again.
17 I would like to thank Senator
18 Velella at the outset for his very kind
19 suggestion to those members who are a little bit
20 tardy coming to the chamber today. I appreciate
21 that. I too would very much like to see a slow
22 roll call or two this afternoon, maybe more, and
23 I thank you for your admonition to anybody who's
3387
1 within the sound of our voices and hope that
2 they will come posthaste.
3 I have to note, however, that the
4 Acting Majority Leader on the floor spoke with a
5 little bit of sarcasm, if I'm not mistaken in
6 saying this is a day that we all look forward
7 to. I don't want to misquote Senator Skelos,
8 and he is a loyal member of this chamber and a
9 very hard working Senator, but I did detect just
10 a little bit of cynicism in stating that you
11 were looking forward to this afternoon, and it
12 saddens me to hear that because, as a duly
13 elected member of this Senate, this is virtually
14 the only opportunity that I have, constrained as
15 it is, to bring forward these motions, and I've
16 received widespread support, as have some of my
17 other colleagues who are co-sponsors with me,
18 from organizations, from individuals, from
19 newspapers all across the state, and to be
20 forced into a narrow time framework, into an
21 arcane parliamentary procedure that only allows
22 me the opportunity to request that the bills be
23 discharged from committees in which they are
3388
1 entombed is insulting enough without having to
2 have the added admonition that this is somehow
3 an ordeal that other people must endure.
4 My right of free speech and, in
5 fact, the right of the 300,000 people in Central
6 New York that I represent for free speech and
7 adequate representation is severely curtailed by
8 the way this Legislature conducts its business,
9 and that's why I feel compelled to bring these
10 issues forward again this year -- or to attempt
11 to discharge them from committee.
12 I want to say at the outset that
13 I had a wonderful sense of future hope and
14 optimism today when I sat in, the first for me
15 and only the third for the state Conference
16 Committee between both houses, for approximately
17 two hours this morning under the wonderful
18 chairmanship of Senator Cook of the Education
19 Committee in this house and Assemblyman Sanders
20 from the Assembly. A group of about 15 or 16 of
21 us Senators and Assembly members met to try to
22 hammer out differences between the two houses'
23 bills which deal with the right of small cities
3389
1 in New York State to vote upon their school
2 budgets.
3 There are a myriad of differences
4 between the two bills. There are also
5 differences of opinion between most of us who
6 sat in that conference room today, and yet we
7 had a wonderful give and take. We were able to
8 roll up our sleeves, as Assemblyman Sanders
9 said, and talk in a meaningful way about the
10 rights of the small cities to either have the
11 vote or to opt out of voting as some may choose
12 to, what type of issues would be covered under
13 contingency budgets, whether or not there should
14 be a triggering mechanism like a cost of living
15 increase, at which point a vote would be
16 enacted. Otherwise, there would be an opting
17 out provision for some localities. All of this
18 we could discuss without ever once hearing the
19 word "Majority" or "Minority" or "Republican" or
20 "Democrat", and in 12 years in this
21 Legislature, that was probably the most
22 refreshing experience I have ever had, and I
23 believe that it is the way that all of our
3390
1 committees should run. This should not be some
2 crazy experiment. This should be the way in
3 which we do our business all the time. We have
4 the committees. In fact, we have very capable
5 chairmen and chairwomen of virtually all of the
6 committees and members on both sides of the
7 aisle with expertise, but yet in this house, in
8 this Legislature, all of the principal
9 decision-making continues to take place behind
10 closed doors, in rooms in which people are
11 organized under a political banner. It is the
12 closed door party conference which is the
13 principal decision-making arena in New York
14 State government. More often than not, it is in
15 the dead of night.
16 How many times have I been given
17 assurances that black was white, that red was
18 green, that yellow was blue at a 2:00 a.m., 3:00
19 a.m. or 4:00 a.m. meeting in the Democratic
20 Conference Room down the hall, only to find out
21 a few hours later that, in fact, that was not
22 the case at all, and then we were all rushed
23 into the Senate chamber with barely time for the
3391
1 ink to dry on bills and forced to vote on
2 measures that we had little knowledge of and
3 certainly had no time to validate.
4 Probably one of the most
5 offensive examples in recent memory was a bill
6 that was presented to us as a debt reform
7 measure. A few years ago we were told that the
8 bond raters liked it, that the comptroller loved
9 it, everybody was on board, and that it really
10 wouldn't cause any more new debt for the state.
11 I voted against it and then stayed up all
12 through the night trying to figure it out. The
13 next day one the first people who called me in
14 response to the FAX that I sent out with a more
15 thorough analysis than the one that I had
16 received before the bill came up came from the
17 comptroller at that time, Ned Regan who said
18 "thank you for figuring out what this means. I
19 think this is terrible." I said, "Ned, I was
20 told at 2:00 a.m. today that you just loved
21 this." "Oh, no. Nobody ever talked to me", but
22 we were in a closed door party conference. No
23 press, no public, no comptroller. I doubt that
3392
1 he even knew we were meeting then on this
2 measure, and until we change that way of doing
3 business, the people of this state are going to
4 continue to be ill-served. It is the committees
5 where we should have this orderly discussion of
6 the important issues of this state, and in the
7 beginning of this term, it looked like we were
8 headed in that direction.
9 Senator Bruno did a number of
10 wonderful things, and I -- I still remember the
11 great sense of excitement in this chamber that I
12 and everyone else felt when he took that seat in
13 which Senator Skelos now stands. He rose on the
14 floor and he, in a most sentimental and
15 passionate way, complimented his family,
16 extolling virtues he learned from his father who
17 he described as a uneducated laborer. I don't
18 remember exactly the characterization he made,
19 but from his heart, he thanked his family for
20 teaching him the values of this country that
21 allowed him to rise to that position of success,
22 and then with no fanfare at all, our new
23 Majority Leader introduced a rule for the -- a
3393
1 resolution, I believe, for the -- for this body
2 that would eliminate the late night sessions.
3 The language that he chose was the same language
4 that I had had for years in one of these
5 measures that I'm attempting to bring forward
6 today, and we just passed it. It showed the
7 power and the commitment of a new leader in this
8 chamber to change to reform and to fairness, to
9 good government because, of course, we don't
10 make good legislation, we don't make good
11 decisions. A lot of us can't even keep our eyes
12 open at 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 a.m., and I can
13 remember times when we worked literally around
14 the clock for three days straight. At the end
15 of that third day, I think probably most of us
16 were ready to be checked into some place for
17 closer evaluation and we have, in fact, seen
18 members taken out of here by ambulance because
19 exhaustion or other physical problems brought on
20 by that duress, but Senator Bruno, in his
21 wisdom, showed a willingness to change that.
22 This year it became part of our
23 permanent rules. I would hope that when we get
3394
1 to that measure as a bill in a few minutes, that
2 we will be able to vote to make it a permanent
3 law, or at least let it pass this chamber and go
4 to the Assembly so it will become a law of this
5 state, but there are other areas where Senator
6 Bruno also demonstrated some wonderful openness,
7 and the newspapers were full of stories giving
8 him credit for moving forward. "Bruno moves to
9 open the process" from the Legislative Gazette.
10 "Bruno's proposal: Victory for Reform", this
11 from the Observer Dispatch in Utica, New York
12 back in December of 1994, shortly after the
13 announcement that he was to be the new Majority
14 Leader. Said "There is hope now for long needed
15 reforms under Senator Joseph Bruno, who will
16 become Senate Majority Leader next month", and
17 then it quotes Senator Bruno saying "We're in a
18 new era. I represent a change. Governor Pataki
19 represents a change, and I think people have a
20 right to fuller disclosure of where their money
21 goes", and the newspaper went on to compliment
22 him for that wonderful insight into what the
23 voters, in fact, wanted, and then the Herald
3395
1 American also extolled Senator Bruno in 1994
2 back in December, saying "There's new hope for
3 reform in the state Legislature. New Yorkers
4 must urge their legislators to keep the momentum
5 going", and then it praises Senator Bruno for
6 making changes. It says, "Even though they are
7 small enough, there is movement. We are getting
8 off dead center. The last year there has been a
9 complete turnover in state government
10 leadership. There will be no better opportunity
11 than right now for overhauling the machinery of
12 state government. Legislators must not waste
13 it", but I'm afraid as we come to the close of
14 this term, this legislative term and we come to
15 the close of this session, that we have, in
16 fact, wasted it. We have squandered this
17 wonderful opportunity to bring about true and
18 abiding reform in this state, and I would ask
19 Senator Bruno to reflect back on the momentum
20 that he had going in as Majority leader and see
21 if it's possible to redirect some of those
22 energies so that before we leave here, we can do
23 justice to the people of this state and show
3396
1 what it is that we're capable of.
2 I want to acknowledge that I feel
3 frustrated at having to do this, after seven
4 years, these bills have never moved from
5 committee. I didn't introduce them last year.
6 In the first year I introduced them but I didn't
7 attempt to discharge them from committee. In
8 the first year that I introduced them, I didn't
9 employ the discharge motions because I just went
10 through the ordinary process, but five times I
11 have tried to bring them to the floor and five
12 times I have experienced defeat, but there's no
13 one who understands better what it means to
14 carry an issue over a number of years than
15 Senator Volker, and I applaud Senator Volker for
16 his tenacity. Over 17 years, I believe, he
17 introduced and spoke eloquently on the need for
18 death penalty restoration in New York State and
19 for 17 years, various governors vetoed the
20 measure that passed this house under Senator
21 Volker's sponsorship, but that did not
22 discourage Senator Volker, and I will not be
23 discouraged. It's disheartening, but I will try
3397
1 to maintain the enthusiasm expected of me by the
2 people who have sent me here to work for them.
3 Not one of them has ever written to me or talked
4 to me about abandoning this effort. Instead, I
5 get increasing amounts of support. I get vocal
6 admonitions to keep up the fight, and they
7 recognize that it is a fight, and they ask what
8 they can do to help.
9 The New York State Grange stands
10 out as one of the more stalwart organizations
11 squarely behind this effort, and I am reminded
12 of how it is that the Grange played a role in
13 even getting these bills into bill form. I
14 spoke to the Grange a few years ago back in
15 1990. I had served at that point a couple of
16 offices -- a couple of terms, and I was invited
17 by the legislative committee of the state Grange
18 to address them in Cortland, New York. People
19 from all over the state had traveled to the
20 Grange at their own expense for this annual
21 meeting. I would guess the median age would
22 have been somewhere close to 70. People live in
23 small towns in order to be members of the
3398
1 Grange, for the most part, and many of them have
2 an agricultural background, not all. If you
3 were to take a sampling of the people in that
4 room along political affiliation, I would
5 imagine it was overwhelmingly Republican, but I
6 felt very comfortable with the Grange back in
7 February of 1990 in Cortland, and I explained
8 when I was asked to give my speech how things
9 worked in Albany, and I didn't really pull any
10 punches. I gave them a little more in-depth
11 knowledge about how things worked than they had
12 perhaps had heard before from other legislators
13 who had spoken to them in previous years.
14 There was one issue that was very
15 topical to them at that time. Because they come
16 from rural areas, they're very concerned about
17 the fact that rural areas are often targeted by
18 state commissions and special bodies empowered
19 to deal with issues of hazardous waste or low
20 level radioactive waste and eventually probably
21 high level radioactive waste, and Cortland
22 County had been selected by the Low Level
23 Radioactive Waste Commission as the repository
3399
1 of low level radioactive waste at that time, and
2 it was a big mystery how this commission was
3 even created, who they were, through whose
4 authority they had been empowered to select
5 Cortland. I did the research, and it was not
6 easy to find out how this low level radioactive
7 waste commission was created. I discovered that
8 it was one of those last night of session
9 concoctions that came about in a deal between
10 the two houses of the Legislature and the
11 Governor's office. It was a way of shifting the
12 responsibility away from the Legislature and
13 away from the administration for one of the more
14 difficult decisions. You created an independent
15 body to do the dirty work and then you don't
16 take any blame at election time. This is a
17 pretty common practice in the political arena.
18 There are pass masters at it in Washington as
19 well, but I truly didn't know anything about how
20 this body had been created. I had no
21 recollection of ever having voted on it, but yet
22 I knew that I had voted on virtually every bill
23 that had come up at the end of that session. So
3400
1 when I found out how it worked, I told the
2 people in that room what it was they had done
3 and I said, You can't blame the commission
4 alone. You have to blame us. You must blame
5 your state legislators because we must take
6 responsibility for our actions.
7 I then had a question from
8 somebody in the audience. I remember what he
9 looked like. He was an older gentleman. He was
10 tall, very distinguished and he was very angry
11 when he got up. He said, "Now that we
12 understand better what's wrong in Albany, what
13 are you going to do to fix it and how are we
14 going to be able to help you?" I had really not
15 thought before about my own personal
16 responsibility to fix things in Albany. I
17 thought that explaining what was wrong and
18 asking other people to help apply some pressure
19 from time to time was probably an adequate task,
20 but I took to heart what the man said and the
21 other people who speak to me at the end of that
22 meeting at the Grange, and I told them that I
23 would consider the possibility of introducing a
3401
1 series of bills that would be a blueprint for
2 reform if I could figure out ones that would,
3 without taking up a huge volume, simply outline
4 what could be done to make things better in our
5 state Legislature, bills that would create
6 accountability, bills that would allow openness
7 and fairness, and then I said if things don't
8 fit easily into bill form, perhaps there are
9 internal rule changes that I should propose as
10 well. I'll see what I can do, and if you can
11 help me, we may be able to make some changes.
12 A few months later, we came up
13 with a one-page -- because I believe everything
14 important should fit on one page -- a one-page
15 list of measures that would reform state
16 government. It's a relatively modest package.
17 For somebody who's been here for 12 years, I
18 have not introduced too many bills and the
19 history of the passage on these bills is a
20 pretty sorry one, but I introduced six bills
21 that we will now attempt to discharge from
22 committee that would begin the process of
23 changing the way we operate so that we would not
3402
1 have to be embarrassed about some of the
2 horrible decisions that are made by this state
3 government.
4 The Grange embraced these
5 issues. I spoke at Grange meetings all over the
6 state. I was suddenly asked to attend Granges
7 all the way from Long Island to the Jamestown
8 area. I visited with Granges. I visited with
9 business groups. The issue caught on far beyond
10 any of my expectations, and before a year had
11 passed, the organization supporting this reform
12 agenda included the All County Taxpayer
13 Associations, Change New York, the New York
14 State Farm Bureau, the Greater Syracuse
15 Association of Realtors, Greater Syracuse
16 Chamber of Commerce, the League of Women Voters
17 of New York State, the Manufacturers Association
18 of Central New York, Mohawk Valley Building and
19 Construction Trades, NYPIRG, New York Citizens
20 for a Sound Economy, the New York Newspaper
21 Publishers Association, New York State Grange,
22 the New York State Taxpayers Alliance,
23 Incorporated, the Onondaga County Federation of
3403
1 Sportsman's Clubs, Tack Pack, the United
2 Transportation Union and dozens of other
3 business, labor and good government groups.
4 None of them have rescinded their support for
5 these measures. Many of them continue to write
6 and to voice their frustration and their desire
7 to see these measures or better, deeper, more
8 meaningful measures enacted.
9 So I feel compelled to stand here
10 today, even though I had been told well in
11 advance that this is a futile effort and even
12 though the initial announcement that we were
13 even doing discharge motions was greeted by
14 cynicism from the opposite side of the aisle, I
15 do believe in my heart that it is possible to
16 bring about this change, and that there are
17 people out there in this state who will continue
18 to make their voices heard.
19 Many of those people have spoken
20 out in just the last few days. There are
21 newspaper editorials -- the Watertown Times
22 spoke out today -- or yesterday in an editorial
23 saying "These measures are sensible and fair and
3404
1 the New York State Legislature would do well to
2 adopt them in the same name of progressive
3 government. It is time to move forward with
4 legislative reforms that the public supports
5 and, indeed, demands."
6 The Syracuse Post Standard stated
7 very eloquently that it was time for these
8 measures to pass and then it went on to very
9 specifically say "Ask Republican Senators about
10 Hoffmann's proposal. Ask them why their party
11 refuses to support her. Ask them what they
12 specifically are doing to make the Legislature
13 or at least their own chamber less expensive and
14 more responsive", and then it goes on to list
15 individual Senators by district who they hoped
16 the readers will contact in support of these
17 reforms.
18 The Cortland Standard ran an
19 editorial last Friday in which it talks about
20 the need for persistence, and it says that
21 "Despite the cold shoulder she's received from
22 Senate Republicans, Senator Hoffmann shouldn't
23 give up", and it wishes me well and indicates
3405
1 that it hopes that some of the other legislators
2 who represent that area of the state will take
3 heed this year and add their voices to mine in
4 passing these reform measures.
5 The Utica newspaper did the same
6 thing. It said, "Tell state legislators to open
7 up the Legislature." It says, "Next week will
8 bring two unhappy rituals. The first comes
9 Monday when tax returns must be filed. The
10 second comes Tuesday when state Senator Nancy
11 Larraine Hoffmann will try to bring out of
12 committee her reform agenda for the state
13 Legislature. This is a ritual act because every
14 year the Senate's Republican leadership ensures
15 that this package of critical action never even
16 gets to the floor for debate", and then it
17 discusses the issues and it concludes by saying
18 "Demand reform and demand it now and warn the
19 legislators that if we block "Reform Tuesday",
20 they will pay at the polls this November."
21 Those are strong words from
22 people who write newspapers. They're strong
23 words from taxpayers, and they don't seem to be
3406
1 waning at all. If I am able to do this for
2 seven years -- and I've seen Senator Volker
3 conduct his crusade for 17 years -- I am
4 convinced that in time we are going to see these
5 reforms become law, either under my sponsorship
6 or someone else's sponsorship or program bills.
7 I believe that eventually they will be heard,
8 but the voices simply don't stop all around the
9 state.
10 Here's a letter from somebody in
11 Babylon, New York, from the Retired Police
12 Association of New York State who tells me that
13 "Both our association president, Ed Curran and
14 I, spoke of your strong support of our
15 legislative efforts and advised the members of
16 the need to support your motion to discharge the
17 reform bills." It talks about a meeting of the
18 New York State Retired Police Association on
19 Thursday, April 11th with 125 in attendance, and
20 then it goes on to state that they will continue
21 lobbying and encloses copies of letters written
22 to Senator Bruno and several of the Long Island
23 Senators seated in the chamber today.
3407
1 The New York State Grange has
2 stated again that they will continue to support
3 the reform efforts.
4 An individual from Canandaigua,
5 New York with whom I'm not familiar wrote to me
6 and indicated that she, I believe, would be
7 lobbying with her own legislators.
8 Somebody from Rochester, again,
9 in another Senate District, says "Keep up the
10 good work. The people are with you."
11 Otsego County. "Is it going to
12 take an act of God to pry them out of
13 committee", and then states that people in
14 Otsego County will continue promoting this
15 effort.
16 Avon, New York. This individual
17 states that she will petition Senator Volker and
18 Assemblyman Johnson to support these reforms and
19 continued to make the case for these to be
20 passed.
21 There was one from Skaneateles
22 Falls, one from Webster, New York. It said that
23 "It's sure worth a try because it is far from
3408
1 good the way the Legislature is presently run."
2 Farmington, New York. "I
3 sympathize with your continuing efforts to enact
4 meaningful reform. In the future, if there is
5 any way to keep me informed on a timely basis,
6 you can count on my support."
7 Henrietta, New York. "Thank you
8 and God bless you with the courage and strength
9 to continue the fight -- to continue to fight
10 the obstinate legislators who are thinking only
11 of themselves and not of the good of New York
12 State." I'm not sure whose district that is,
13 Henrietta, but I'm sure this is a copy of a
14 letter that was sent to a legislator from that
15 district.
16 One from Lansing, New York.
17 "Although we are not constituents of yours, we
18 support your common sense approach to
19 government. Keep up the good work."
20 One from Wayland, New York.
21 "Three cheers, and I'm so glad someone has the
22 courage to press for reform. Keep up", et
23 cetera.
3409
1 Herkimer. "All meetings in
2 Albany should be open to all the Legislature, as
3 well as individuals who have a real input to
4 contribute. This closed door policy is
5 ridiculous and obviously isn't the answer
6 anyway. People feel there is no point in voting
7 or having an opinion because no one is
8 listening."
9 Williamson, New York. "I'm not
10 in your district but for God sakes, keep up your
11 effort with reform to our state government. If
12 there is any way I can help, please let me
13 know."
14 New Hartford, Utica, Long Island,
15 Liverpool, Vernon, Webster, Patchogue. "I will
16 certainly do my best to help get these bills
17 through or at least get them the attention they
18 deserve." That's from somebody with a
19 newsletter.
20 Waterville, New Hampton. We have
21 received in my district office and in this
22 office in Albany, literally hundreds of letters
23 from people all over the state, many of them
3410
1 recently, some of them asking to be kept
2 informed over the year as you've heard from some
3 other people, and I intend to keep these people
4 informed and let them know the results of this
5 vote today and let them know that these bills,
6 should they not move, will all continue to be
7 live bills until this session adjourns, but it's
8 not just the upstate newspapers and it's not
9 just some constituents in rural areas who are
10 voicing their support for reform.
11 These measures have received the
12 support of the New York Daily News. Way back in
13 1992, it was stated in an editorial, "Word has
14 never filtered out to the public at-large that
15 Congress' peccadillos are mere child's play
16 compared to those of the Legislature in New York
17 State. If you're inclined to chauvinism, you
18 might say when it comes to abuses of power,
19 Washington is playing Triple A ball, while
20 Albany is in the Major Leage", and then it goes
21 on to the endorse the legislative reforms that I
22 have continued to propose.
23 The New York Times in 1992 said
3411
1 "There's a lot to criticize, starting with the
2 Legislature's loaded $168 million budget, unlike
3 Congress which at least provides a detailed
4 breakdown. The leaders of the perk ridden
5 Assembly and Senate provide only a grudging
6 outline to justify their legislative budget, the
7 highest in the country. The result is giant
8 incumbency protection unaccountable to the
9 taxpayers", and also from the New York Times,
10 only a year later, "For too long, secrecy has
11 allowed the Legislature, especially the Senate,
12 to operate as a giant re-election machine, that
13 if enough members protest, sunshine may at last
14 penetrate the Albany slush."
15 I welcome the support of these
16 organizations. I welcome the support of my
17 colleagues on both sides of the aisle to these
18 measures.
19 I would like to just close my
20 general remarks before we bring up the bills one
21 at a time and indicate that I was touched
22 yesterday when I saw on the wire news that a
23 former reporter, a retired reporter from the
3412
1 Buffalo News who had covered the Albany
2 legislative activities for 13 years passed
3 away. Jerry Allen retired. He was 76 years
4 old, and he was quoted -- he retired in 1982,
5 shortly before I arrived here, but he still
6 contributed to pieces of that paper.
7 After a trip back to Albany in
8 1992, he wrote that "Nothing seems to have
9 changed. Most of the legislators from western
10 New York and Buffalo that I wrote about are
11 still there." Then he goes on to say, "Albany
12 has all of that high tech paraphernalia and
13 more, but the message is old stuff, almost
14 medieval. State government still limps along as
15 it has for a century with an obsolete structure
16 and inexcusable waste." That contemptuous
17 attitude from people who cover us for the
18 newspapers across the state.
19 Don't we want to do something to
20 improve our image? Don't we want to do
21 something to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the
22 public? Isn't it time that we provided them
23 with some good government? Isn't it time that
3413
1 we adopted some meaningful reforms and accepted
2 the need for accountability? I urge all of my
3 colleagues. Let us not go through this motion
4 of discharge year after year after year. Let's
5 enact these measures and get on with the
6 business of restructuring a state government
7 that we can all be proud of.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
9 any other Senator wishing to speak on this
10 motion?
11 Senator Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator
13 just yield to just one question?
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR GOLD: You made a
18 reference to an editorial in the New York Daily
19 News. Could you just tell me the year.
20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: There are
21 several editorials from the New York Daily
22 News. There's one from 1992. There's another
23 one from 1993 or '94. Actually, Senator Gold,
3414
1 it would take me a little while to find it,
2 because this entire section here is editorial
3 and it's not complete. These are editorials in
4 support of these measures from around the state,
5 but I do believe I have at least two or three
6 from the Daily News here.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Gold, do you wish the Senator to yield again?
9 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. Yeah.
10 Do you recall any news stories in the Daily News
11 about your efforts or just the editorial page?
12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I don't recall
13 news stories per se. I'm not sure at this
14 point. There may have been some, but I don't
15 know.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
17 just briefly.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Gold on the motion.
20 SENATOR GOLD: I was just asked
21 those questions and I'm glad the Senator was
22 kind enough to yield, because it's obvious to me
23 that while there are editorial boards around the
3415
1 state and certainly the Daily News, which its
2 editorial board I don't have on any pedestal,
3 that's for sure, but in this case, they were
4 obviously smart enough to know something was
5 going on. It would be interesting if some of
6 those reporters were also that intelligent.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
9 motion?
10 (There was no response.)
11 Hearing none, the Chair would
12 remind the members that a vote in the
13 affirmative is a vote to discharge the bill from
14 committee. A vote in the negative is a vote to
15 defeat the motion and leave the bill in
16 committee.
17 All those in favor of the motion
18 signify by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye".)
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
21 will like to explain my vote.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Skelos to explain his vote.
3416
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I just want to
2 remind my colleagues -- and the reason why I'm
3 voting no on this one and the other motions to
4 discharge is that they are really a vote on a
5 procedural matter and certainly not on the
6 merits of the bill.
7 As I was listening to the
8 Hoffmann anthology, I just wanted to remind all
9 of us in the room and those who bothered to
10 listen at this time of year, that under Senator
11 Bruno there have been more reforms in the year
12 and a half that he's been Majority Leader than
13 probably the 12 years -- and Senator Hoffmann
14 and I were elected in the same year -- in the
15 entire prior history of the state Senate, and
16 I'm very proud of that. Our conferences are on
17 time and we did in the Majority have an open
18 conference. I believe that's one more than the
19 Minority had this past year. We see leadership
20 meetings that are open to the public and to the
21 press with the Majority and the Minority being
22 present. That's under Governor Pataki and
23 certainly in support of Senator Bruno, Speaker
3417
1 Silver. Our sessions start on time, 3:00 p.m.
2 Generally they're over by 6:00, 7:00 o'clock,
3 generally earlier, so that they are in the light
4 of day.
5 Last year, I do not recall a
6 budget vote that occurred in the darkness of the
7 night. I believe every single vote occurred
8 during the day and certainly we have conference
9 committees now in the state Senate, and this
10 Senate is being run in an orderly and
11 businesslike fashion under the leadership of
12 Senator Bruno, and certainly there will be more
13 reforms that will be presented by the Majority
14 and our Majority Leader in the near future as
15 the process goes along, but it's very important
16 to know that to be part of the process in
17 Albany, you have to be here. You have to be
18 here, and I know many articles were read by
19 Senator Hoffmann.
20 Other articles probably will be
21 mentioned during the day, but I would just like
22 to point to one article that appeared in the
23 Daily News and, you know, maybe some of the
3418
1 reasons why people weren't here were legitimate,
2 and I'm sure there are because just like with
3 the Majority, we all have frailties of life,
4 problems that occur, but I'm very proud to say
5 that with Albany's worst no-shows as appeared in
6 the Daily News April 15th, in the top seven,
7 there is not one Majority member listed. We are
8 here, the Majority, with Senator Bruno, doing
9 our work on a daily basis, having our committees
10 function, having our commissions, our task force
11 function, doing the work of the people of the
12 state of New York and even more important, being
13 here on a daily basis and voting on bills, yes
14 and no, as we are elected to do so.
15 So in explaining my vote, Mr.
16 President, I am going to vote no. It will be a
17 party vote in the negative on the first motion
18 to discharge of Senator Hoffmann, that I intend
19 again -- because they are procedural matters,
20 that I intend to vote no on all the additional
21 motions to discharge this day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will call the roll.
3419
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Gold to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 Mr. President, a lot goes on out
7 here, and I think it's interesting that whenever
8 you call up certain kinds of conduct, there's
9 always somebody on the other side, usually very
10 close to the aisle, who yells out "cheap shot."
11 I think that Senator Skelos' reference is a
12 very, very cheap shot, particularly when you
13 talk about a newspaper which, as I pointed out
14 talking to Senator Hoffmann, somebody on the
15 editorial page understands reform, their
16 reporters can be up here the longest time.
17 The Daily News doesn't understand
18 that if they wrote stories about motions like
19 this, they could be changed, because if these
20 bills come to the floor, they will be changed.
21 They are not procedural. They are, in fact,
22 bills which could have effect.
23 One of your members who I won't
3420
1 mention by name because I don't want to yell a
2 cheap shot, even writes letters to his local
3 newspaper about how he's for reform and then
4 votes against the bills when they come out of
5 here. The reporters just can't pick that up.
6 Maybe one of the reasons the reporters don't is
7 they don't want to get you people mad because
8 it's easier getting stories in the back rooms
9 for you than working for them.
10 The bottom line, though, is that
11 the members on this side are very hard-working
12 and very effective, and the issue is not
13 attendance. It's effectiveness. As a matter of
14 fact, the one year that Jim Donovan -- may he
15 rest in peace -- wasn't here because of illness,
16 he would have shown up in that story which would
17 have been an irrelevancy and a cheap shot.
18 There are people in that story who have
19 illnesses. There is one person in that story -
20 modesty forbids me from mentioning the name -
21 has probably got one of the best attendance
22 records over 25 years that ever was, and in the
23 year that my father-in-law died, the rather
3421
1 untalented person that wrote that story decides
2 to write a story.
3 At any rate, the point is that
4 this is not procedural, but my congratulations
5 to you, Senator Skelos, because you're smart
6 enough to know that reporters aren't always as
7 smart as they think they are, and if they were
8 that smart and they were around here long
9 enough, they would know that change can be
10 accomplished if they, in their news stories,
11 were helpful in supporting what goes on in these
12 chambers, and there's not enough of them. Thank
13 God we've got one or two, but there's not enough
14 of them who understand what this whole thing is
15 about. They understand that at the end of the
16 day they've got to have a story, and if they can
17 get a story from the back room in the Majority,
18 that's a story, but that doesn't lead to
19 change.
20 What leads to change is
21 persistence and Senator Hoffmann, God bless her,
22 has persistence, and there are other people,
23 Senator Dollinger, and I know the talk around
3422
1 this place. You don't like people with
2 persistence. Well, that's too bad. Our job is
3 to be persistent and to see to it that change
4 comes, and I'm glad that Senator Bruno makes
5 changes. I'm not against that, but it's amazing
6 to me. Somebody does his job and then you
7 expect a bouquet for it. You expect a medal for
8 it, and then you say I cannot do now all of the
9 things I should do.
10 I don't understand Senator Bruno
11 in this reward. He has tried to bring certain
12 changes. Well, if he has a businessman -- and I
13 respect that word as I say it -- as a
14 businessman, he came in and said we've got to
15 have changes. If we're going in at 3:00, I'm
16 going to be there at 3:00. If we're going in at
17 2:00, we'll be there at 2:00. I want committees
18 to run. If he understands all of that, how does
19 his mind shut off on the kinds of things that
20 Senator Dollinger and Senator Leichter and, in
21 this case, Senator Hoffmann talk about?
22 The answer is it's not shutting
23 off from lack of intellect, so it must be
3423
1 shutting off because of the kind of things
2 talked about before, there's something to hide
3 or there's something to give up.
4 Senator Skelos, you have 31-plus
5 votes. We have made offers of amendments to
6 bills. We make suggestions to bills, and the
7 machos on your side will never take any
8 suggestion. So when you say you're here to do
9 the people's work, you're not doing the people's
10 work. You're doing your own work, your own
11 political work as you see it. So don't
12 criticize people and say, Well, you know, if you
13 were here on a certain day, something would have
14 happened, because the answer is that it is a
15 constant fight for the members of this Minority
16 to make sure that the issues are put out there
17 to show the invalidity of a lot of the things
18 you do, and we are going to continue to do that,
19 and it's for that reason, partially, that I
20 support these motions.
21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President,
22 I wonder if Senator Skelos would yield for a
23 question, please.
3424
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Hoffmann, we are on a roll call at the moment,
3 and Senator DiCarlo has asked for the
4 opportunity to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. I
6 can wait until the following bill comes up.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon?
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I can wait
9 until the next bill comes up, that following
10 roll call. Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 DiCarlo to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 To explain my vote. I appreciate
16 the fact that Senator Skelos rose and brought up
17 that issue and, Senators, it wasn't meant as a
18 cheap shot but, Senator, you just mentioned that
19 the macho guys on this side of the aisle never
20 take the advice, and let me differ with you.
21 I've -- I'm a member of the Codes
22 Committee with you and Senator Volker, and you
23 just made a statement on this floor that we
3425
1 don't listen to the Minority, and I have been in
2 that meeting many -- well, you made a statement
3 about the macho guys on this side never taking
4 any advice and that's not right, and it's wrong,
5 and I have heard you say wonderful things about
6 Senator Volker many, many types, but not in that
7 instance and not the way you just did, and
8 that's wrong, and that's got to be pointed out,
9 and when Senator -- when you spoke up from
10 Syracuse, Senator Hoffmann, and you were very
11 proud to quote newspaper articles and writers
12 around this state, you know, God knows, I've had
13 my fill of reporters and I don't like many of
14 them, and I have reason not to like them because
15 most of the time they don't get their facts
16 straight, but you stood up there very proudly
17 talking about how -- how little they thought of
18 these -- these proceedings in this Senate. If
19 you're going to have it that way, you've got to
20 accept it the other way, and if you're saying
21 how wonderful they are, then when there's an
22 article written talking about how, out of the
23 seven members -- seven Senators all who happen
3426
1 to be on that aisle who are not doing the
2 people's work, also bring up that article.
3 Let's be fair about it.
4 So, Senator Skelos, when you
5 stood up and you said let's set the record
6 straight, I think that's what has to be done,
7 and to say a cheap shot might have been -- but
8 an awful lot of cheap shots are coming from that
9 side, and let's try and talk about the facts and
10 let's try and talk about what's right and wrong,
11 and the press isn't always right and, God knows,
12 most of the time they're wrong, but if you're
13 going to stand there and you're going to quote
14 them and you're going to quote them like they're
15 the Bible, then be prepared to accept it from
16 the other side also.
17 For that reason, on a procedural
18 vote, I vote no.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would the
20 negatives -
21 Senator Dollinger, why do you
22 rise?
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I explain
3427
1 my vote as well?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Dollinger to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
5 President, I rise to explain my vote just to
6 clarify a couple of things. One is I think
7 Senator DiCarlo is correct. I think I have seen
8 in the three years I have been here more advice
9 taken. I certainly would point to the chairman
10 of the Codes Committee, even in today's meeting
11 of that committee, I thought -- a lot of give
12 and take, productive, and I thought some of the
13 discussions of amendments and changes in bills
14 were well taken.
15 I also believe in the other
16 committees that I have participated in that has
17 become more and more of the norm. I have to
18 disagree with one thing Senator Gold said.
19 Senator Gold said we're trying to reform, and
20 this is where I will point to the Deputy
21 Majority Leader and give him his credit. I
22 believe there has been more than just trying to
23 reform this chamber. I believe that the
3428
1 decision to go to Conference Committees was a
2 good one. Senator Hoffmann and Senator Leichter
3 had been giving that advice long before I got
4 here as the right thing to do, and I think it
5 was certainly accepted by Senator Bruno. He put
6 it in place. He deserves the credit for it, and
7 I know that the Deputy Majority Leader was one
8 of those who said, This is what we ought to do
9 because it's the right thing to do.
10 We have embarked on an itemized
11 budget. That too, as I recall, the first motion
12 to discharge we ever did, Senator Leichter stood
13 up and talked about itemized budgets. We're
14 getting there and we're moving down the road.
15 We certainly itemized the mailing expenses,
16 which I think was one of the itemized issues
17 that I fought about a couple of years ago.
18 So, Mr. President, I do see
19 progress and I'm willing to give Senator Bruno
20 and Senator Skelos and the other members of this
21 Majority some credit for that movement, but
22 rather than using the old analogy about is the
23 drink half empty or half full, I'd rather use
3429
1 the analogy of building a house. It isn't a
2 house until it's done. A half built house isn't
3 good. It doesn't have that much value to you.
4 You've got to finish the floors. You've got to
5 finish the floor. You've got to make the
6 bathrooms work. You've got to put the roof on.
7 You've got to turn on the lights.
8 It seems to me we've put up part
9 of the structure and maybe we've got part of the
10 floor boards in, but we ought to finish it. We
11 ought to take what Senator Hoffmann puts forward
12 in these motions to discharge as just the kind
13 of elements that we need to turn on the lights,
14 to get the water running, to make sure the
15 plumbing works so that this house really serves
16 as the people's house and we can do the people's
17 business.
18 I will, I think -- and, Senator
19 Skelos, I know you and I have talked about
20 this. I think we've put in a lot of the
21 infrastructure and the improvements. I think we
22 need to finish the job. What Senator Hoffmann
23 is talking about is doing those fine touches so
3430
1 this house will be the fine, the noble, the
2 wonderful place that the people's house should
3 be and the Senate can be the leader, and that's
4 why I'm voting in favor of these motions to
5 discharge. It's the right thing to do.
6 I'll close on one other notice.
7 It seems to me that part of the problem is that
8 too often we teach our children what the right
9 thing to do is in government, but we don't
10 practice it ourselves, and my question is what
11 message do we really send if we don't practice
12 what we preach?
13 We all know this is good
14 government. We all know that what Senator
15 Hoffmann is asking for is good government.
16 Describe it as procedural. Describe it as
17 substantive. This is our one chance. This is
18 your one chance to cast a vote for the right
19 kind of government that our children would be
20 proud of.
21 Vote aye.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Skelos, you did indicate previously that you
3431
1 wanted a party line vote for the Majority. Is
2 that true?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will -- Senator Velella, you're
6 asking -
7 SENATOR VELELLA: Just briefly to
8 explain my vote.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Velella to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR VELELLA: I've listened
12 to a lot of the comments, and I'm proud of the
13 record of this house, not only under the
14 leadership of Senator Bruno, but by the way my
15 colleagues conduct themselves. It was this
16 house who only last week allowed every Minority
17 member to go on a 48-hour maternity bill which
18 the Governor signed, and every Democratic member
19 in this house was allowed to be on a piece of
20 legislation that they could proudly go home with
21 and talk about.
22 Unfortunately, our colleagues
23 over in the Assembly, Speaker Silver said, We
3432
1 will only allow those Assemblymen who are not
2 marginal, the ones that are Republicans that we
3 think we can beat will not be allowed on the
4 bill. That's a big difference between the
5 Assembly and the Senate, and let me say that
6 we've talked a lot today about the reporters and
7 what they're going to say about this debate and
8 how this house is being run by this Majority. I
9 asked them to look at it fairly. If, in fact,
10 my Democratic colleagues on the other side of
11 the aisle, the Minority, are sincere in what
12 they're saying, then tomorrow morning, you will
13 be welcomed into their Democratic Conference
14 because we cannot stop them from opening the
15 Democratic Conference. They can open that
16 conference. They can vote and say, "Let the
17 press come in. Open the doors." Instead, they
18 point the finger at us and say we are stopping
19 them. I challenge them. Do it. Put your money
20 where your mouth is and stop playing to the
21 press.
22 I vote in the negative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3433
1 Paterson, are you asking for a party line vote
2 also?
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
6 right. The Secretary will record the party line
7 vote. Announce the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23, nays 37.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 motion is defeated.
11 The Secretary will continue to
12 read the motions to discharge, particularly
13 Senate -- motion to discharge Senate 2070.
14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
15 Hoffmann, Senate 2070, an act to amend the
16 Legislative Law, in relation to the time for
17 debate on matters before the Legislature.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
19 recognizes Senator Hoffmann.
20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd like to
21 point out for the record that the language in
22 this bill, 2070, is identical to the language in
23 a resolution previously adopted by this Senate
3434
1 at the beginning of Senator Bruno's term as
2 Majority Leader. It is also identical to the
3 language adopted in a rule for this Senate
4 earlier this year. Therefore, I can't imagine
5 why there would be any objection from any of my
6 colleagues on the other side of the aisle from
7 making this a permanent law to govern the state
8 of New York.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 question is on the motion to discharge. All
11 those in favor signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye".)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Nays -
14 opposed, nays.
15 (Response of "Nay".)
16 The motion is lost. The
17 Secretary will continue to call -- or read the
18 motions to discharge.
19 Senate 2072 is next.
20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
21 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2072, an act to amend the
22 State Finance Law, in relation to requiring that
23 budget bills making appropriations or
3435
1 reappropriations to the Legislature contain
2 specific categories.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Hoffmann.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
6 President. I feel compelled to comment on a
7 couple of points that were raised by a few of my
8 colleagues as they explained their votes; and
9 under the rules of house, it was, in effect,
10 inappropriate for me to attempt to question them
11 during the explanation. I realize they were
12 afforded two minutes to explain their votes,
13 sometimes interpreted generously by the chair
14 and I applaud that effort, as well. But I
15 really feel compelled to make a couple of
16 references here.
17 One, I really must indicate that
18 I'm pleased that several of my colleagues have
19 chosen to engage in debate this year. There
20 have been years where I sat and looked at empty
21 chairs and was greeted only with stony silence.
22 So you have, in fact, validated my presence on
23 this planet with your comments today, and I
3436
1 thank you for that, because that sometimes is
2 more meaningful progress than almost anything
3 else we can do.
4 Maybe I'm getting your attention;
5 and when you feel compelled to pulled out
6 newspaper articles listing the attendance of
7 members on this side of the aisle, a relatively
8 minuscule issue in comparison to how we spend
9 $168 million on our entire legislative budget
10 between these two houses, how we conduct
11 business behind closed doors, I believe that
12 that's a very interesting tactic in an attempt
13 to detract from the severity of these issues and
14 the fact that they are gaining enormous weight.
15 And, when Senator Skelos can pull
16 out this many newspaper articles (indicating)
17 that criticize me directly or other members of
18 this chamber for our reform efforts, then we
19 will be on an equal footing. But, today, he
20 pulled out one article that embarrasses some of
21 us for terrible attendance records this year.
22 I haven't read the article, but I
23 do believe that it probably makes an accurate
3437
1 statement that some of us have not been
2 attending our sessions as well as we should
3 have, and it's wonderful that he wants to point
4 that out. But if that is the only thing that he
5 has to defend the current practices in this
6 house and try to refute my efforts, then he is
7 clearly unarmed for this battle that is going to
8 continue across this state with the taxpayers
9 rising up in arms about their outrage at the way
10 we conduct business.
11 I was encouraged also when
12 Senator Skelos made a special point, as did
13 Senator DiCarlo, that they were voting on a
14 procedural measure and they wanted to vote no on
15 the procedural measure, and clearly made the
16 record reflect that.
17 So I would like to ask if Senator
18 Skelos would yield for a question.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Hoffmann. Senator Hoffmann, excuse me for just
21 a minute.
22 Senator Paterson, why do you
23 rise?
3438
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Maybe I'm
2 interrupting, but, Mr. President, I want to know
3 if Senator Hoffmann would yield for a question.
4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I will yield
5 for a question, but then I would like to ask a
6 few of my colleagues.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Hoffmann yields.
9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would be
10 glad to yield to a question, Mr. President.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I was
12 just going to ask you how you felt about
13 newspaper articles that would mention those
14 Senators who had not had particularly high
15 attendance records, or that they just happen to
16 be the seven that had the lowest attendance
17 records. They didn't necessarily have to be bad
18 attendance records. It's my opinion that that
19 actually illustrates your point. I don't think
20 anyone here would concede that any of our
21 colleagues are not working.
22 I think we have all seen how hard
23 each of us work, but the fact is that when you
3439
1 have a minimum of participation, you then have a
2 need to illustrate your point in other ways,
3 perhaps going to some of the regions of the
4 state and drumming up support at those
5 particular times, particularly when it is
6 impossible to get bills on the floor. It is
7 impossible to get bills out of the committees,
8 and it is impossible to have what would be an
9 ordinary amount of participation.
10 When we talk in terms of Majority
11 and Minority, perhaps we have taken the concept
12 too far. We have taken it to a point where we
13 are denying thought, denying reason, denying
14 really the right to express a point of view.
15 I don't think it would really be
16 a bad idea if each of us -- since we have about
17 75 session days and we have 61 Senators, if each
18 of us was allowed to bring one issue that we
19 thought was important to our constituents to the
20 floor of the Senate at least once in a
21 particular year.
22 So I'm just basically asking you
23 to comment on whether or not, though it may be
3440
1 the intention of an article to embarrass people,
2 if it does not actually demonstrate the fact
3 that there would be greater participation -
4 that there would be greater attendance if there
5 was greater participation?
6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
7 Senator Paterson. I would be happy to respond
8 to that, and it gives me an opportunity to bring
9 up an issue that is very germane to this
10 discussion, and I want to comment on the issue
11 of germaneness. Before, Senator DiCarlo, I
12 believe, admonished me -- I think it was
13 directed at me. Having quoted newspapers, he
14 felt I should be quoting that other one. I was
15 trying to deal as germanely as I could -- a
16 phrase that, we often hear from the chair, is to
17 be respected in this chamber. I tried to deal
18 as germanely as I could with the issues of
19 legislative reform.
20 Remember, in my very constrained
21 time, this one day a year -- in this case, one
22 day out of two years -- in which I'm given the
23 opportunity to speak to these issues, even
3441
1 though, as it's been pointed out by the Acting
2 Majority Leader, they are not real bills on the
3 floor. They are only motions.
4 I mean I have been relegated to a
5 position that is clearly lower than second class
6 in this chamber. I have been relegated to a
7 position of inability to act as a duly elected
8 member of this Senate, because I am being denied
9 the opportunity to bring these bills to the
10 floor, as the Acting Majority Leader made it
11 very clear a few minutes ago these are only
12 procedural motions. He has rubbed salt into my
13 wounds once again. It's quite clear to me they
14 are only procedural measures because those bills
15 are, in fact, entombed in committee.
16 And I would like to ask Senator
17 Skelos if he would be willing to yield for one
18 question, Mr. President?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Hoffmann, the chair would remind you that there
21 were rules that were adopted earlier this
22 session, and one of the rules -- and if you have
23 them in your desk, particularly Section 4-e was
3442
1 amended -- excuse me -- Rule 9, Section 4-e was
2 amended to only allow a person who has the floor
3 to ask people who have spoken, and I think the
4 language is "on the matter" a question.
5 So your request to ask Senator
6 Skelos is totally outside the rules of this
7 chamber, and the chair would have a great deal
8 of difficulty in overlooking that, let's put it
9 that way.
10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Really? What
11 would it take for you to overlook that, Mr.
12 President, to ask Senator Skelos if he would be
13 willing to yield for a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think
15 about 31 Minority members.
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Really? You
17 know, I could -- I could prolong this
18 experience, already characterized by some people
19 in the chamber as agony, by appealing the ruling
20 and going through a series of parliamentary
21 maneuvers. I don't choose to do that, but I
22 would like very much to state for the record,
23 that acting in the capacity as President of the
3443
1 Chamber, Senator Kuhl has very eloquently stated
2 an important reality of this chamber that sadly
3 flies in the face of the progress made by
4 Senator Bruno in so many other areas.
5 This is an enormous step backward
6 in our debate, in our exchange of ideas. This
7 particular rules change has led to a situation
8 in which I am not able to now raise a question
9 of a colleague who used his preemptory time
10 during the explanation of his vote to make a
11 shot at me and at some of my colleagues. He
12 certainly has that right, but I have now -
13 through another Majority-enacted measure in this
14 house in another way, my ability even my
15 opportunity to exercise exchange with a
16 colleague has been curtailed.
17 Much of what I said earlier -
18 and I will have to direct my comments to Senator
19 Skelos. Much of what I said at the very outset
20 of this activity revolved around praise for
21 Senator Bruno and my great hope and belief that
22 we will continue on a positive direction, and I
23 would remind Senator Skelos and the other
3444
1 members of this chamber that I had great
2 confidence that we would, in fact, adopt many of
3 these reforms and it would not be necessary for
4 me to go through the method of motions for
5 discharge any more.
6 But as he has demonstrated, first
7 by indicating that he would vote against this
8 measure because it was procedural and, as has
9 now been demonstrated by the ruling of the
10 chair, that I can not even query him on his
11 criticism of me regarding Senator Bruno, his
12 criticism of me regarding these motions for
13 discharge; that in one more area my capability
14 as a Senator has been eroded by arbitrary and
15 partisan decisions on the other part of this
16 chamber.
17 I was asked by Senator Paterson a
18 minute ago how it feels to be in this position.
19 And, I commented, about a week ago, to a
20 reporter who wrote another embarrassing article
21 -- and, Senator Skelos, I guess you missed it,
22 but there was an article that ran in the
23 Syracuse newspaper by an extremely well-known
3445
1 columnist who derided Democratic Senators for
2 not coming promptly to the chamber, for not
3 being here, for frequently checking in early and
4 leaving, and I will confess that I am often
5 guilty of that habit myself, but let me tell you
6 why, and Senator Paterson raised it.
7 Just as Senator Paterson alluded,
8 we very often feel our greatest effectiveness is
9 in our districts, is in doing what amounts to
10 educational and proselytizing work in the
11 countryside, because in this chamber we are
12 unable to act as duly elected Senators, and I
13 don't know what better illustration I could
14 provide than the way the bills have been
15 reported out of this house since the beginning
16 of this year.
17 As of April 12, there have been
18 644 bills reported out of the Senate, 7
19 sponsored by Democrats elected to this chamber.
20 391 bills have passed the New York State Senate,
21 376 of those were Senate-sponsored bills, 15 of
22 them were Assembly-sponsored. Of those 376
23 bills that have passed this Senate chamber in
3446
1 1996, only one had a Democratic sponsor. It
2 doesn't feel very good to be relegated to
3 something lower than a second-class status in
4 the New York State Senate.
5 When each of us is duly elected
6 to represent 300,000 people allegedly
7 apportioned fairly and equitably across the
8 state, why we are denied the same resources, why
9 we're denied the same opportunity to propose and
10 enact legislation is unfathomable to me, and I
11 am not going to criticize the press as Senator
12 DiCarlo did, and I realize I can not ask Senator
13 DiCarlo to yield for a question either. If they
14 are somehow uneven in their coverage, I assume
15 it is ultimately all going to come out in the
16 wash, and I take it upon myself to try to
17 educate them if they have misunderstood my
18 motives or misunderstood something I have done,
19 and I find, as a rule, they are reasonable
20 individuals, and they are willing to listen to
21 us if we feel we have been maligned or treated
22 unfairly.
23 I think probably one of the best
3447
1 illustrations of that is the fact that in 1991,
2 when I first brought these motions to discharge
3 up, I appealed to the press to report them. I
4 appealed to members of the working media in the
5 Legislative Correspondents Association, and I
6 said I have no other way to bring bills
7 forward. Yes, this is only an arcane
8 parliamentary procedure, but it's all I've got,
9 so you owe it to the people who sent me here to
10 let them know that at least I will do this for
11 them. At least I will stand there and endure
12 the embarrassment that comes from shots from
13 across the aisle and attempts to repudiate my
14 effort, attempts to misrepresent, distort or
15 accuse me of grandstanding. That was the big
16 charge that year.
17 I would love to be able to stand
18 here and introduce substantive bills. I would
19 love to be able to go out to my constituents and
20 say I'm so happy that such and such a bill that
21 I introduced passed yesterday and was supported
22 by all these other members, but I am denied that
23 opportunity most of the time, as are the other
3448
1 people on this side of the aisle.
2 So those are the reasons why we
3 protest the way business is conducted here, and
4 those are the reasons why we ask Senator Bruno
5 and our Republican colleagues to change the way
6 that we do business.
7 As to the issue of opening up the
8 Democratic conference -- and I realize that I
9 can not ask Senator Velella to yield, because he
10 has not spoken on this subject. Senator Velella
11 made the suggestion that the Senate Democrats
12 should open up their party conference.
13 Senator Velella, unfortunately,
14 has totally missed the point. I have made it
15 clear that this little reform agenda is merely a
16 blueprint, and it is only when we render all
17 party conferences null and void, except for
18 purely political discussions, of course, it is
19 only then that we could rebuild a system using
20 the committees where debate could be encouraged
21 in the light of day.
22 It is the party conferences of
23 the Majority where the principal decision making
3449
1 takes place. Opening up our party conference
2 would really serve little purpose, although I
3 wouldn't have any problem doing that. That is
4 not the point. The point is we need to build a
5 new structure based on openness, and that means
6 that all of us must be willing to accept the
7 responsibility to debate in public those
8 important issues of the taxpayers of this state.
9 SENATOR VELELLA: Will you yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Hoffmann, Senator Velella is asking you to
12 yield.
13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would be
14 most pleased to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, so you
18 don't think I'm back -- or that you don't think
19 that I am taking advantage of you, I will be
20 happy to yield if you have a question that you
21 would like to ask me. I'm asking you one now,
22 and then I will yield to whatever it is you
23 would like to ask me, because you said there was
3450
1 some procedural reason you couldn't inquire of
2 me.
3 But let me ask you. Have you
4 ever heard of the idea of leading by example?
5 Leading by example, making those changes that
6 are within your power to make so that those who
7 are not as bright as you, who are not as
8 enlightened as you might try to follow your
9 lead. Why don't you do that with the Democratic
10 Conference? We can't stop you from opening the
11 Democratic conference. Sit in that room with
12 your colleagues and say, "Hey, let's lead by
13 example. Let's welcome the press in. Let's
14 open the doors, a breath of fresh air and we
15 will look over to that side of the aisle, and
16 we'll say we have our open conference. Why
17 don't you? We meet in open. We don't meet
18 behind doors."
19 Start out in the beginning.
20 Maybe that's why you're not being as successful
21 as you'd like to be. You are tilting at the
22 windmills. Try to make the difference where you
23 can make the difference. Lead by example. Try
3451
1 to get your own party to make those reforms.
2 Maybe we'll look at it and say, Hey, the product
3 is great. It really looks much better like
4 that. We'll follow the lead.
5 We had an open conference.
6 Wasn't much different than the closed
7 conferences. Try it. You will like it.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
9 Senator Velella, for agreeing to yield to a
10 question. I appreciate your very collegial
11 attitude today and thank you for that.
12 The issue you just raised about
13 the Senate Minority opening its conference, as I
14 pointed out a minute ago indicates there's
15 really little purpose for the Senate Democrats
16 opening. I have no problem with that. I think
17 that it's fine, but the reality is I don't think
18 the party conferences are a very good idea at
19 all for much of anything. I don't feel a lot of
20 kindred spirit, many times, when I'm in the
21 Democratic Conference Room because most of my
22 colleagues in that room come from parts of the
23 state that are quite unfamiliar with many of the
3452
1 issues that face my part of the state. I'm sure
2 you've occasionally had that experience in your
3 conference, Senator Velella.
4 Let me ask you. Have you ever
5 felt like perhaps you should have been talking
6 with a different group of people about an issue
7 that affected your district, that the ones in
8 your conference room did not understand as well
9 as perhaps another group of legislators might
10 have understood?
11 SENATOR VELELLA: No. No,
12 Senator. I find the Republican Conference
13 perfectly adequate, capable and intelligent to
14 handle any of the problems that present
15 themselves in the state.
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would you
17 yield for another question, Senator Velella? Do
18 you -
19 SENATOR VELELLA: Certainly.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Velella -- excuse me.
22 Senator Velella, do you yield to
23 another question from Senator Hoffmann?
3453
1 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you so
5 much, Senator Velella. Do you believe that the
6 Republican Conference Room is a vastly superior
7 place for decision making than would be a
8 Finance Committee meeting?
9 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator, I
10 don't think the Republican Conference Room is so
11 vastly superior to any other room in the
12 building. The quality of the membership is far
13 superior than the alternative that the people
14 are offered in terms of the Minority, but,
15 certainly, we are not -- the rooms are not any
16 more superior.
17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator
18 Velella yield for another question, Mr.
19 President?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Velella, do you continue to yield to Senator
22 Hoffmann?
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
3454
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 yields.
3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator
4 Velella, do you believe that it is better for
5 the people of this state to have decisions made
6 in a closed door session of Republican Senators
7 than in an open meeting of any description?
8 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator,
9 I think that the party process that your party
10 follows having closed meetings, the party
11 process my party follows has a certain process,
12 there are closed door meetings. I think what we
13 need to do is look at the product that comes out
14 of here, and the product that comes out of this
15 side of this house, I think, is a darn good
16 product. It certainly has gone to the people of
17 the state time and time again, and they have
18 again returned us to the majority. So we must
19 be doing something right.
20 There are some flaws in the
21 system. You know, maybe if you opened up your
22 party conference to the public, you might become
23 the majority some day, heaven forbid, but if
3455
1 that ever happened -
2 (Laughter.)
3 We have even reached the maximum
4 far beyond our expectation. We're at 37. I
5 think that's great. We really are getting the
6 support of the people. They like what we're
7 doing. We are winning the elections. We are
8 keeping the majority. You got to do something
9 desperate. Why don't you try some tactic like
10 you're doing today. Open the party conference
11 to the people.
12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr.
13 President. Would you ask Senator Velella if
14 that was a yes or a no?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Velella? Are you asking Senator Velella to
17 yield, Senator Hoffmann?
18 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, see -
19 see, sometimes that's the problem with the
20 process. People don't pay attention. See, that
21 was an answer to your question. Your question
22 was, were we superior? No, we're not superior.
23 Our product is better than yours. You didn't
3456
1 ask a yes or no question, I don't think.
2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Well, I had
3 phrased it as a yes or no question.
4 Mr. President. Senator Velella
5 who I very much appreciate having been gracious
6 enough to yield for a question and invite some
7 questions, in fact, has made an interesting
8 observation. He has, once again, illustrated
9 the tremendous preoccupation around this capital
10 with partisan control of decision making.
11 It's what happens in the
12 Republican Conference Room that counts. If you
13 would extract -- I'm attempting to extract a yes
14 or no answer from Senator Velella's answer, and
15 he very proudly upholds the grand tradition of
16 closed door decision making by a group of
17 Republican Senators. I believe I've
18 characterized his response fairly. Whether it's
19 superior to an open meeting of a different sort,
20 I didn't get an answer to that, but I believe
21 that most of the taxpayers of this state think
22 that an open type of decision making process
23 would be vastly superior to the closed door
3457
1 decision making we have right now.
2 That's why I continue to press
3 for eliminating all of the closed door party
4 conferences. Eliminating only the Democratic
5 Party Conference is going to mean virtually
6 nothing in this chamber as we know from the
7 dearth of bills with Democratic sponsorship that
8 ever emerge in this chamber.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
10 me, Senator Hoffmann.
11 Senator Velella, why do you
12 rise?
13 SENATOR VELELLA: Would Senator
14 Hoffmann yield to one more question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Hoffmann, do you yield for a question?
17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd be
18 delighted, Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 yields.
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I
22 would just like to know, and I will try to
23 phrase this in a yes or no answer. Even though
3458
1 you miscategorized my statement, I don't want to
2 leave the record without saying that you did
3 miscategorize what I said. In a yes or no, if
4 you can, I would like to know one thing. Did
5 your party, your colleagues on the Democratic
6 side of the aisle, discuss these motions in a
7 private, closed-door conference before you came
8 out on the floor to advocate that we open the
9 process?
10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Did my party
11 discuss these in a closed door conference?
12 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, the
13 Minority members.
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Absolutely,
15 Senator Velella.
16 SENATOR VELELLA: Okay. Thank
17 you.
18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Did your
19 party? Would Senator Velella yield for a
20 question?
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Absolutely not,
22 Senator. Absolutely not. We did not discuss it
23 in closed door session. Absolutely not. It was
3459
1 closed in the lounge. Out here on the floor,
2 we're debating the issue in the public's eye.
3 That's the way we do things. You did it in the
4 closed door. You stay with that.
5 Thank you.
6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
7 Senator Velella.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Hoffmann, you have the floor still.
10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very
11 much, and I'm delighted to have the floor for
12 this one day in 1996, and I'm so pleased that
13 Senator Velella and some of my other colleagues
14 are willing to explain their positions on some
15 of these measures. Even though I must confess,
16 after listening as carefully as I could, I'm
17 still at a loss to understand, and I will go
18 back over the record when I see the transcript
19 to see if I can have better understanding of
20 Senator Velella's sentiment on this subject.
21 But I am clear on my sentiment,
22 and I'm clear on the sentiment of the many
23 people who have embraced these ideas. These are
3460
1 not earth-shaking. These are not revolutionary
2 in any way. They are simply based on common
3 sense and the belief that we would all be better
4 servants of the people if we put aside our
5 partisan affiliation when we came to Albany.
6 Most of the people that I
7 represent really have little regard whether I'm
8 a Democrat or a Republican. If they were really
9 concerned about party enrollment, then they
10 would have elected some of my five or six
11 opponents in recent years, but I have been
12 returned here several times now by more than 75
13 percent of the vote in the last two elections,
14 and yet I know that the party enrollment in
15 Upstate New York in the district that I
16 represent is overwhelmingly Republican.
17 So I don't think that Senator
18 Velella is totally correct in his assessment
19 that it is a Republican majority that people
20 want. I believe that when people vote for
21 Senator Velella or Senator Johnson, Senator
22 Skelos, or Senator Paterson or any of us, they
23 are voting for us because they like us as
3461
1 individuals. I do not believe they are saying,
2 ahh, I want to send one more person down to that
3 closed-door Republican Conference Room. I think
4 that is probably the last thing on the minds of
5 the voters in this state, and I think that the
6 more we can educate them about how these
7 decisions take place in political arenas, as
8 opposed to in open forums, the more likelihood
9 that people will run for office on the concept
10 of conducting our business in an open manner.
11 So I would ask that we now vote
12 on S.2072, which would have us itemize the
13 legislative budget, and I have to give credit
14 where due to Senator Leichter, who for many
15 years, long before I came to this chamber, when
16 the legislative budget would come up -- in the
17 dead of night, no matter how tired he was, he
18 would make an issue of the fact that it was
19 totally unitemized. It is still unitemized,
20 although Senator Bruno tells us that it will be
21 sometime soon.
22 But those of us in the Minority
23 experience, again, a double standard in this
3462
1 house. We do not have the same type of
2 staffing. We do not have the same type of
3 resources as do our colleagues across the aisle;
4 and, in fact, everything that takes place,
5 everything that is afforded to us for support
6 services, is at the political leader's
7 decision. It is necessary for Democratic
8 members, once elected, to find out from the
9 Democratic leader what their resources will be,
10 and I would assume the same is true on the other
11 side of the aisle.
12 I didn't know this when I was
13 first elected in 1984. I came to Albany. I
14 asked where I would get processed, and what do I
15 do about finding out my staff allocation so I
16 can go hire some people in the 48th Senate
17 District, and I was told at every turn that I
18 had to, "Go talk to Fred." "You work that out
19 with Fred." "Fred controls that." "You better
20 go speak to Fred." Well, I didn't even know
21 Fred. Fred was Senator Ohrenstein, the man who
22 didn't think that I had any chance of winning
23 and who had said some rather unkind things about
3463
1 me in my campaign, did not exactly welcome me
2 with open arms, and he represented a district in
3 Manhattan. But because he was the Minority
4 Leader, he had absolute power over the
5 resources, the budget and I would imagine much
6 of the other extraneous equipment and supplies
7 for Minority members of the Senate.
8 So it wasn't too surprising that
9 when my secretary needed to do some Xeroxing,
10 she had to go around the corner -- around two
11 corners, into another Minority office; and if
12 the office was open, she could use the copier in
13 that office. She couldn't go into the next
14 office which was a Republican Senator's office
15 and use the wonderful collating copier that was
16 right there, and I was not even allowed a copy
17 machine at all.
18 To this day, my secretary in
19 Syracuse uses a word processor that I purchased
20 with my own funds because the Senate was not
21 going to provide a computer for that district,
22 and I note that many of my colleagues on the
23 other side of the aisle have wonderful laser
3464
1 printers operating in their district offices.
2 This Democratic Senator doesn't have one.
3 This disparity in resources is an
4 issue that should be made clear to the public.
5 It's not petty. It's not a case of being
6 greedy. It is a case of us wanting to be able
7 to do the best for the people for whom we work,
8 and I can not serve the 300,000 people in my
9 district as well as some other Senators are able
10 to if I don't have the same resources. I would
11 like to at least see this list of resources;
12 therefore, I believe it is high time that we
13 itemized the legislative budget.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Leichter, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
17 President. To be heard on the motion.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Leichter, just as a point of information, I
20 would like to correct Senator Hoffmann because I
21 was not going to interrupt her because we're
22 trying to let things flow, but for the benefit
23 of the members who have been here and listening,
3465
1 we have now passed or have passed previously
2 three motions -- I should say there have been
3 three motions to discharge, each one has
4 failed. The last one that failed was the one
5 that Senator Hoffmann was speaking to which
6 dealt with the appropriations of the
7 Legislature.
8 The actual motion to discharge,
9 the bill that is before the house right now,
10 provides for filing of campaign receipts and
11 expenditures. So if you are arising to speak on
12 the motion that's already passed -- or failed
13 but has been before the house, I would just
14 remind you of that, Senator Leichter. It's just
15 purely by way of information. There have been
16 three votes on three motions by Senator Hoffmann
17 at this point.
18 We're now on the motion to
19 discharge Senate 2073.
20 Senator Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
22 President. We have passed -- we have taken up
23 three previous motions. As I understand it, two
3466
1 of them were by Senator Hoffmann and one by
2 Senator Dollinger. Is that correct?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Four.
4 Four. Senator Paterson, four. That's what I
5 was trying to get to the chamber to make sure
6 that we all understood where we were.
7 Okay. There was a motion by
8 Senator Dollinger on 6456, and we have now had
9 three by Senator Hoffmann, and we're now on the
10 fourth one by Senator Hoffmann.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
12 President. I just feel that that's in error. I
13 would just like to go over the motions that we
14 have taken up just to see where the disparity
15 is, because I believe we have only taken up two
16 of Senator Hoffmann's motions.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
18 I believe Senator Paterson is correct. I think
19 we -- we have had votes on 4640, by Senator
20 Dollinger; 2069, by Senator Hoffmann; 2070, by
21 Senator Hoffmann; and now she is explaining
22 2072.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3467
1 Skelos, you were correct on the first two, but
2 the desk has a record of a vote on 2072
3 already. If you would like to retake that vote,
4 I assume that's up to your motion, but that's
5 procedurally where we have been through.
6 The last vote came very quickly
7 with no debate, as you may remember. It was
8 very quickly on -- a motion was read there was
9 no discussion. The vote was taken on a voice
10 vote. Nobody explained their vote, and then we
11 brought up the next one, which is the one we
12 started to engage upon.
13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: A point of
14 clarification. Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Hoffmann.
17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
20 not -- I'm not trying to -- I'm just trying to
21 keep this procedurally correct, so everybody
22 understands exactly where we are. That's the
23 only reason why the chair has brought this up.
3468
1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr.
2 President. Since both the Majority and the
3 Minority Leaders on the floor have the same
4 records, and I as a sponsor do not recall a vote
5 being taken on the third bill, which is S.2072
6 -- I was speaking on the third bill. There was
7 no vote taken on that bill, to my knowledge. I
8 recall the vote which the Majority Leader called
9 for a party vote on 2069, and then there was a
10 voice vote, I believe, on 2070. I did not hear
11 a party vote on that, and I did not request a
12 slow roll call on that measure. I then rose to
13 speak on 2072, and that vote has not yet taken
14 place.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Skelos, in talking, we could go back and stall
17 the process. Obviously, ask the stenographer
18 for this and do that, but the desk suggests -
19 the Journal clerk is suggesting that we just
20 take up 2072 and take the new vote as being the
21 vote on that rather than what we have recorded
22 at the desk. If that's okay with the Majority
23 Leader and the Minority Leader, that's the way
3469
1 we'll proceed.
2 Senator Paterson, is that
3 agreeable with you?
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
5 President. I think that my records and the
6 Acting Majority Leader's are similar, and what
7 might be in order at this point is that we -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Then we
9 will just entertain a motion to reconsider the
10 vote by which the motion to discharge failed.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: But -- Mr.
12 President. We can do that, but I really would
13 prevail upon the Journal Clerk to take another
14 look at that because I don't remember that vote
15 taking place, and I was paying very strict
16 attention because I wanted to know in which way
17 we were going to cast our vote; and if I'm
18 incorrect, I will certainly yield, but I think
19 that -- being that the Acting Majority Leader
20 sees it the same way, I think that that's
21 probably the way it actually occurred.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Skelos.
3470
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
2 Just so the record is clear, I think, Senator
3 Paterson, if you have no objection and there are
4 no mistakes, why don't we move to reconsider the
5 vote in the event the vote did take place, and
6 then revote on it so that each bill has its full
7 airing and has a vote on it.
8 So on 2072, why don't we
9 reconsider the vote by which the motion failed.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
12 motion to discharge, 2072, failed.
13 Secretary call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll on
15 reconsideration.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is before the house. Excuse me. The motion is
19 before the house.
20 Senator Leichter, you wish to
21 speak on 2072, the motion to discharge?
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I would.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
3471
1 recognizes Senator Leichter on the motion to
2 discharge, Senate 2072.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
4 President. I just want to agree, in part, with
5 Senator Velella. I must say Senator Hoffmann
6 debating with you is indeed tilting at a
7 windmill and, frankly, that's what I found many
8 of your statements, Senator, to be like. Before
9 you get too carried away about the voters
10 returning the Republicans in this house, may I
11 remind somebody who has a district that violates
12 the State Constitution that gerrymandering might
13 have a little bit to do with the majority that
14 is held by the Republicans.
15 Senator, I think what is involved
16 here is sort of this inside Albany politics, and
17 what we have, Senator, is debates -- and I am as
18 guilty as anybody else, I guess, at times -
19 that really have no relevance to the public at
20 large. Makes absolutely no sense. I think the
21 public wants Senator Hoffmann's reform proposals
22 not because they are hers, not because they are
23 Democratic, because it makes good sense,
3472
1 obviously, to have an itemized budget.
2 But I think when we are debating
3 things as who is allowed to go on a bill and
4 when we take pride of the fact that we are no
5 longer having debates in the middle of the night
6 -- and we shouldn't have it in the middle of
7 the night. It was obviously a good step
8 forward, but that doesn't mean that we have
9 reached nirvana; and, Senator, I don't think the
10 public gives a damn, if I may mention it,
11 whether somebody was on your bill on the 48-hour
12 and the fact that you let Democrats on it as if
13 it was this great largesse, and I must say I
14 think the Speaker was incredibly petty -
15 incredibly petty not to let Republicans on the
16 bill.
17 I think we ought to get away from
18 that sort of thing. But I do believe we are
19 discussing some very important matters, and
20 Senator Skelos can say, well, this is only
21 procedural. I don't know, I don't think the
22 public cares if it's procedural or substantive.
23 "Oh, yes, I voted against all
3473
1 these reforms, but I'm for reforms. I just
2 voted against procedure."
3 Come on! Who are we kidding?
4 We're voting on whether we want to have a more
5 open, a more democratic house.
6 Senator Velella, you made a big
7 issue that the Senate Democrats have not opened
8 their conference. I do believe that day you
9 opened your conference and had a nice dog and
10 pony show that our conference was open. Nobody
11 bothered to come to it. But, Senator, I have
12 been at odds, frankly, with some of the members
13 on this side of the aisle because I think we
14 ought to open our conference. I think
15 conferences ought to be open. I think there are
16 sometimes when political issues are discussed,
17 it may close. But when you take a position of
18 whether a bill is going to come to the floor or
19 not, then I think you are really making a
20 decision that affects legislation that the
21 public has a right to know.
22 So I think that these are
23 important issues. I think you can make fun of
3474
1 them. I think Senator DiCarlo can get up and
2 say to Senator Hoffmann -- and she obviously has
3 nice scrapbook -- that, you know, there was an
4 article which mentions Senator Hoffmann as
5 having one of the -- one of the seven Senators
6 -- one of the seven Senators with the worst
7 attendance record. In fact, I thought she had a
8 rather good attendance record. It was like 83
9 percent. It also failed to mention that some of
10 the other Senators mentioned like Senator
11 Stavisky and Senator Gold -- Senator Stavisky
12 was in the hospital. Senator Gold was taking
13 care of a serious family situation. But I
14 certainly give credit to the Senate Majority.
15 You are all here today, and that's certainly to
16 your credit.
17 But it's not to your credit that
18 you are voting down bills that ought to be on
19 the floor and steps that we ought to take, and I
20 think if I take each of you aside individually
21 and say, "Don't you think we ought to have an
22 itemized budget?" you would say yes because how
23 could you be against an itemized budget.
3475
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
2 any other Senator wishing to speak?
3 Senator Hoffmann to speak on the
4 motion to discharge.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Just on this
6 particular item, I must ask that the record
7 reflect my incredible frustration over the last
8 several years at trying to find out what the
9 budget is for an individual Senator's office
10 expenses and staffing in the aggregate so that I
11 could better apply some identified resources
12 that I chose to not use for newsletter
13 publications.
14 I have not published a newsletter
15 or mailed a newsletter since September of 1990.
16 I have saved several hundred thousand dollars,
17 and I have repeatedly requested of the Majority,
18 who control that portion of our budget -- I have
19 repeatedly requested that some of that savings
20 be allowed to be transferred for staffing, for a
21 laser printer, for upgraded computer equipment,
22 even for things like typewriter ribbons for the
23 typewriters that I have purchased with my own
3476
1 funds in my district office, and I have been
2 rebuffed on every occasion by this Majority
3 Leader and the previous Majority Leader or, to
4 be more accurate, by their deputies to whom they
5 delegate this chore.
6 Now, I find that insulting. But,
7 more importantly, I find it demeaning to the
8 people in Central New York. If they are not too
9 sad about not getting newsletters from me every
10 couple of months, then I think that they should
11 be rewarded with a higher level of constituent
12 service, and I want to be able to address their
13 needs.
14 The district is huge. Regularly,
15 people on my staff travel from 6:00 o'clock in
16 the morning until 10:00 or 11:00 o'clock at
17 night trying to cover all of the events, and I
18 often do the same myself.
19 It would be nice to have some
20 additional staff. It would be nice to be able
21 to have even the same resources or something
22 close to it that other Senators have who simply
23 have the benefit of having an R next to their
3477
1 name while I have a D next to my name.
2 So I really must protest that
3 this lack of an itemized legislative budget
4 serves to totally cloud the issue of disparate
5 resources and an intentional -- and it has to be
6 intentional -- attempt on the part of the
7 Republican leadership of this chamber to make
8 life more difficult for Democratic Senators.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
10 Senator wishing to speak on the motion to
11 discharge?
12 (There was no response.)
13 Hearing none, the chair would
14 remind the members that a vote in the
15 affirmative is a vote to support the motion to
16 discharge and remove the bill from committee.
17 All those in favor of the motion
18 to discharge -
19 Senator Paterson.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President.
21 Just to explain my vote.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson.
3478
1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll wait for
2 Senator DiCarlo.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 DiCarlo to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes, Mr.
9 President, to explain my vote.
10 Only because, Senator Leichter,
11 you raised my name, and I just want to be very
12 clear on the point that I was trying to make
13 earlier. I have tremendous respect for all my
14 colleagues in the Senate, and most of my
15 colleagues in the Legislature, and especially
16 those who sit on the other side of the aisle.
17 I in no way was making a point
18 and attacking Senator Hoffmann on any newspaper
19 article. I happen to believe that most of the
20 nonsense you read attacking people in politics
21 is just that -- nonsense.
22 What I objected to was using
23 reporters and newspaper articles as if they were
3479
1 fact and true and quoting from them, when I
2 don't believe most of what is written,
3 especially when it is saying bad things about
4 legislators. I have great respect for all of
5 those people who are mentioned in that news
6 article, especially and including Senator
7 Hoffmann, because I think they work hard to
8 represent their constituents, and I would never
9 use that article.
10 But when they stand up and they
11 quote reporters and other newspaper articles
12 saying nasty things and saying things about
13 colleagues on this side of the aisle, I object
14 to that. But I in no way think that my
15 colleagues on that side of the aisle are not
16 doing what's in the best interests, as they
17 feel, for their constituency.
18 But if you live by the sword, you
19 die by the sword, and I think everyone should
20 remember that. I will vote no on this motion.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
3480
1 President. We'd like to request a party vote in
2 the affirmative.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
6 the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
8 will record the party line votes.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
11 37. Party vote.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 motion is lost.
14 Secretary will read the next
15 motion to discharge on Senate 2073.
16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
17 Hoffmann, Senate Bill 2073, an act to amend the
18 Election Law, in relation to statements of
19 campaign receipts and expenditures.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
21 recognizes Senator Hoffmann.
22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
3481
1 I'd like to state at the outset
2 that I appreciate Senator DiCarlo's
3 clarification on the issue of the newspaper
4 article. But I want to make one very important
5 distinction. I was quoting from newspaper
6 editorials. That is the opinion page in the
7 newspaper. It's different entirely from the
8 news section. In fact, in most cases news
9 reporters very rarely are asked or permitted to
10 write editorials. It's a somewhat rarified
11 environment on the editorial page, and I'm proud
12 of the fact that newspaper editors, not in one
13 or two newspapers but across the state, have
14 chosen to embrace these reforms, and I read into
15 the record their positions because as they were
16 speaking they were directing people to take
17 action. They were using their editorial
18 prerogative, not reporting the news.
19 And, like you, I occasionally
20 find newspaper articles covering the activities
21 of individual legislators to have either a
22 different version or a different slant on
23 something that I have experienced or seen. In
3482
1 the case of the article on the attendance, as
2 several of my colleagues have pointed out, there
3 were apparently some selective explanations or
4 limited explanations on why people did not
5 attend.
6 I have no problem, however, with
7 addressing the issue of attendance. I would
8 like to address the way that our activities,
9 including attendance, have sometimes been very
10 erroneously represented not by the media but by
11 campaign literature and how the people who have
12 been guilty of misrepresentation in an attack
13 piece are very often not identified with that
14 piece. Because of the extremely convoluted way
15 in which the election records of this state are
16 kept, it is often impossible to know who is
17 paying for a negative campaign against a sitting
18 Senator or a negative campaign against a
19 candidate for New York State Senate or New York
20 State Assembly, and I would imagine that some of
21 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
22 would suggest that the Assembly, where the
23 balance of power is reversed from that in this
3483
1 chamber, is guilty of abuses similar to the ones
2 that some of us have observed, and I would not
3 deny that.
4 I believe that it is necessary in
5 the interest of good government and fair
6 campaign practices that the books be open, that
7 the voters of this state should have the ability
8 to know who is paying for a campaign, who is
9 paying for every last dollar of a campaign for
10 any candidate for public office; that there
11 should be no bundling of funds under the
12 umbrella of the Senate Republican Campaign
13 Committee or, for that matter, in the Assembly
14 the Democratic Assembly Campaign Committee.
15 These are the two political
16 action groups that wield the most power here in
17 Albany because they control the legislation.
18 The newspapers would have us believe that's just
19 a position the editorial writers have taken. I
20 don't know if that's why it is that those two
21 political action committees have millions of
22 dollars at their disposal and the minority
23 campaign committees in each house have much
3484
1 less.
2 But there have been numerous
3 documented examples of campaigns being run out
4 of Albany by the political action committees or
5 parties chosen by them, hired by them, paid by
6 them, and the people back home simply don't
7 know. They don't understand that it is somebody
8 in Albany who wants to bring on a new person to
9 play the same old game. Fancy three-colored
10 printing shows up in the mail or shows up in the
11 doorstep in the way of fliers, and there is no
12 indication that it was paid for by funds
13 generated in another part of the state.
14 Meanwhile, the candidate who can only afford a
15 Xeroxed flier and only a couple of them at that
16 appears to be less committed. This candidate is
17 underfinanced, but the public doesn't know where
18 the money is coming from. It is essential that
19 that paper trail be established so people know
20 in advance to whom an office holder will be
21 beholden if elected.
22 I have experienced this. I know
23 other people have. I remember vividly an attack
3485
1 piece that arrived in the mail in my district in
2 one city on the eve -- literally on the eve of
3 the election, and it was made in an anonymous
4 fashion so that my opponent would not be
5 identified with it. In fact, he initially
6 attempted to disavow knowledge of it, and then
7 said yes, he knew something about it. No, he
8 didn't know exactly who had done it. It was
9 clear that somebody else was calling the shots.
10 Even the poor candidate running against me was
11 embarrassed by the very heavy-handed way in
12 which money was being used and a mailing was
13 being sent out without his direct involvement
14 and, certainly, without direct involvement of
15 the people who purported to be supporting him
16 from the 48th Senate District.
17 I clearly have not been targeted
18 as much as some other people have, and other
19 people in the Assembly who sit on the Republican
20 side of the aisle can tell horror stories. The
21 point is that the public should know and the
22 voters should have access to that information
23 long before they go into the ballot box to vote.
3486
1 So I would hope that all of my
2 colleagues support Senate 2073 today, and I
3 would like to point out that, unlike the other
4 bills that we have discussed, this one has the
5 unique distinction of having been passed already
6 by the Assembly, so there is a demonstrated
7 willingness on the part of some members of the
8 Majority in that house to correct this
9 inadequacy in our Election Law, and I thank my
10 Assembly colleague and neighbor, Joan
11 Christensen, who overlaps a portion of the 48th
12 Senate District and who succeeded me on the
13 Syracuse City Council, for having had the good
14 judgment to introduce this measure in the
15 Assembly. I thank the members of the Assembly
16 for supporting it, and I would ask all of my
17 colleagues in the Senate to please support this
18 measure, to discharge it to the floor where it
19 can be voted upon by the full Senate.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 motion is to discharge Senate 2073. All those
22 in favor of the motion to discharge, signify by
23 saying aye.
3487
1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
3 the affirmative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
8 the negative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
10 the party line vote. Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
12 37. Party vote.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 motion is lost.
15 The Secretary will continue to
16 read the motions to discharge.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2074, an act to amend the
19 Election Law, in relation to political
20 advertisement in literature.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Hoffmann.
23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
3488
1 President. Point of clarification. I wonder
2 could you tell me from the desk, please. We've
3 had, I believe, five -- four party votes, and
4 one voice vote. Are there any exceptions on
5 either side of the aisle in these party votes?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, there
7 are none.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: There are no
9 exceptions. Thank you, Mr. President.
10 Senate 2074 is the companion bill
11 to the bill just -- to the resolution just
12 defeated -- the motion just defeated, and this
13 would require all campaign literature be filed
14 in one place, so you would have two means of
15 knowing who is responsible for running a
16 campaign, by the filings of the contributions
17 and by the literature having been placed in the
18 files at the Board of Elections as required by
19 law.
20 Right now, it's possible for
21 literature to be filed in a central committee or
22 a ghost committee category that has little
23 bearing on the candidate who benefitted from
3489
1 that literature, just as the expenditures are
2 similarly filed in very confusing locations, and
3 I would ask my colleagues to recognize the
4 obvious advantage of having all campaign
5 literature readily available, certainly for
6 scholars and political scientists. How could we
7 possibly question the appropriateness of having
8 this measure in a good housekeeping manner pass
9 so that we could all see by a reasonable request
10 at the Board of Elections what type of
11 literature various candidates have used in the
12 past.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 question is on the motion to discharge Senate
15 2074.
16 All those in favor, signify by
17 saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed, nay.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
21 the affirmative, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
3490
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 Record the party line vote.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
4 the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
6 the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
8 37. Party vote.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 motion is lost.
11 The Secretary will continue to
12 call the motions to discharge.
13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
14 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2071, an act to amend the
15 Legislative law, in relation to Senate and
16 Assembly officers.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
18 recognizes Senator Hoffmann.
19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 2071 would eliminate those
22 special payments known as payment in lieu of
23 salary for legislators who serve at the
3491
1 political behest of the leadership in each house
2 in a political function.
3 Now, I make the distinction
4 between committee lulus and non-committee or
5 political lulus. This came to my attention a
6 few years ago as an area that was ripe for abuse
7 when the previous Majority Leader enacted a
8 whole series of new "payment in lieu of"
9 measures upon his ascension as Majority Leader.
10 Senator Marino created several titles, and it
11 was very difficult for members of this chamber
12 and for members of the press to understand what
13 these titles meant, what the duties were. In
14 fact, there was a freedom of information request
15 at one point by a good government group or
16 Change New York and a couple of other -- I
17 believe Change New York made a request for a job
18 description on several of these purely political
19 titles, and they were rebuffed.
20 I still don't know what it is
21 that some of my colleagues do for an increase in
22 their compensation. Now, I realize people are
23 somewhat uncomfortable discussing this. It gets
3492
1 kind of close to home. I want to make it clear
2 that I believe we should always be a part-time
3 legislature, and one of the ways to insure that
4 a part-time legislature is going to do the best
5 job it can for the people of this state is to
6 reward appropriately with additional
7 compensation those legislators who undertake
8 additional legislative responsibility.
9 I understand that was the premise
10 behind the whole initial concept of creating
11 "payment in lieu of" a number of years ago.
12 Those people who undertook committee
13 responsibilities, committee chairmanships or
14 ranking Minority members being the party
15 equivalent in each house were given additional
16 compensation because of their legislative
17 responsibility in that specialized area.
18 I'm reminded, because his name
19 was mentioned a little while ago, of the late
20 Senator Donovan, who as Chairman of the
21 Education Committee traveled not only across
22 this state but around the country and even made
23 a few international visits in his study of
3493
1 education. He was regarded as a national expert
2 in the field of education. For him to do this,
3 meant that he had to forsake the ability to earn
4 income outside the Legislature because he
5 committed far more than 40 or even 60 hours a
6 week to his job. He worked tirelessly. But as
7 the Education Chairman, he received additional
8 compensation, and I support that concept for
9 Senator Donovan, for the current Education
10 Chairman, and for all of those Senators who hold
11 the difficult challenge of being a chair of a
12 committee, a substantive committee.
13 But I can not understand why the
14 taxpayers of this state should be billed to give
15 an additional reward to members of the
16 Legislature whose duties are purely political.
17 I believe that should come out of some political
18 war chest, and the taxpayers should not be
19 billed. I suppose you could make the case that
20 two or three are necessary in each house for
21 housekeeping. I guess you have to have a
22 Majority and Minority Leader.
23 I don't know, I still have
3494
1 trouble with this whole idea that we have to
2 have party structure at all. When I was asked
3 earlier by Senator Velella about whether we had
4 a meeting to discuss these reform measures prior
5 to their discharge in a closed-door party
6 conference, I told him yes, and it's true
7 because there was never any other opportunity
8 for meetings because the committee chairmen
9 chose not bring them up in the committees in
10 which they are entombed.
11 But I still believe that the
12 committees are the rightful place to do
13 business, and I would give additional
14 compensation to members of committees who would
15 do their jobs and entertain issues such as these
16 and run those committees in a fair and open
17 way. I do not believe the taxpayers of this
18 state begrudge people a fair salary for doing
19 reasonable legislative activity, but I do think
20 that it is asking too much of the taxpayers to
21 subsidize a political fiefdom that operates
22 under the guise of a legislative lulu.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
3495
1 is on the motion to discharge Senate 2071.
2 All those in favor, signify by
3 saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (Response of "Nay.")
7 The motion is defeated.
8 Secretary will continue to call
9 the motions to discharge.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Leichter. We have four motions to discharge at
12 the desk. Would you like to take them in any
13 particular order?
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
15 President. Thank you, and I will do these
16 quickly.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Which one
18 would you like us to read first, Senator
19 Leichter?
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: If we could
21 begin with Senate 2323A.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will read.
3496
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 Leichter, Senate Print 2323A, an act to amend
3 the Environmental Conservation Law, in relation
4 to granting private citizens the right to
5 initiate civil enforcement actions for
6 violations of such law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair
8 recognizes Senator Leichter.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. On
10 the motion. We've had this before.
11 This is the bill that would allow
12 citizens to sue for the enforcement of
13 environmental laws. It's a provision that
14 exists in 30 states. It's incredibly important
15 because I think that the people of this state
16 want to assure clean air and clean water, and
17 this will give them the tools to do it.
18 It's a bill that in the past has
19 had very broad support from numerous groups, the
20 Alliance for Consumer Rights, Environmental Law
21 Council, Citizens Campaign for the Environment,
22 Citizen Action Clear Water, Environmental
23 Defense Fund, Environmental Planning Lobby,
3497
1 Hudson River Sloop, the ILGWU, National Audubon
2 Society, National Resource Defense Council, New
3 York Public Interest Research Group, Sierra
4 Club.
5 And, again, this is not a
6 procedural vote. This is a vote to see whether
7 you want to move forward towards having better
8 enforcement of the environmental laws in the
9 State of New York, and I hope very much and urge
10 all of you that this bill will be put on the
11 floor.
12 Let me say that I read in the
13 paper recently that Governor Pataki expressed
14 some interest and support for the bill. It's
15 certainly one that the people of the State of
16 New York want.
17 I move the bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
19 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 I feel so strongly about this
23 bill, and particularly now. We are
3498
1 experiencing, because of cutbacks, a lot of the
2 officers who would normally be out minding the
3 environmental health of the State of New York -
4 we see a large number of cutbacks in the people
5 who would be watching that only good things were
6 happening and bad things were not.
7 Since we are in a time of fiscal
8 constraint, since we may not have enough
9 environmental officers out there watchdogging,
10 this is more important than ever that we give
11 the power to citizens to watch over and monitor
12 our environment. There are so many cases of
13 point pollution, of non-point pollution, so many
14 areas that need to be watchdogged that cannot be
15 because of the costs involved. If we gave
16 citizens the power to go out there and bring
17 suits, we would see greater compliance with our
18 Environmental Law and less expense for the
19 government to put the conservation officers out
20 there to monitor it.
21 I think it's more important now
22 that we have this bill, and this is not exactly
23 a unique or novel bill. It is the law in so
3499
1 many states. I believe 30 states. And, if we
2 could avail ourselves of this same option, this
3 law, I think we would see an improvement in the
4 adherence to our Environmental Law, and it would
5 not cost the state a penny. This is a win-win
6 situation. I certainly hope we will have some
7 support for it, and I believe the Governor is
8 interested. I hope we can move this this year.
9 It really saves the state money and saves the
10 environment.
11 Thanks.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 question is on the motion to discharge Senate
14 2323A.
15 All those in favor, signify by
16 saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Opposed, nay.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
23 the affirmative, Mr. President.
3500
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will call the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 .
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
6 the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Party
8 line with exceptions, Senator Paterson?
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22. Nays
10 38. Party vote with exception.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion is failed.
13 Senator Leichter, would you like
14 to take up 2726 next?
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'll ask
18 the Secretary to read.
19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
20 Leichter, Senate Bill 2726, an act to amend the
21 State Finance Law, in relation to requiring that
22 budget bills making appropriations or
23 reappropriations to the Legislature contain
3501
1 specific categories and amounts of expenditures.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
3 recognizes Senator Leichter.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
5 President. This is really another bill that
6 provides for an itemized budget, and we debated
7 this earlier when we had one of Senator
8 Hoffmann's motions, so I'm not going to debate
9 it now.
10 The reason that I'm also moving
11 this bill, it's worded somewhat differently.
12 This is the bill that most of the Democratic
13 colleagues have endorsed, and I think it would
14 give us a workable way to have an itemized
15 budget so that we in the Legislature do
16 precisely what we ask the Executive to do, what
17 we ask the Judiciary to do; and that is, to have
18 an informative budget, one that not only the
19 members can understand but that the public can
20 understand.
21 I move the motion.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 motion is to discharge Senate 2726A.
3502
1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
3 the affirmative.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
5 the negative.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
10 the party line votes. Announce the results.
11 Senator Dollinger.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President. Just to explain my vote very
14 briefly.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Seems to me
18 that Senator Leichter's motion to discharge a
19 bill that requires itemized legislative budgets
20 is the step down the road to TQM that we all
21 need to follow. If you believe in the
22 discussion the last decade about improved
23 management, better quality management, better
3503
1 understanding of financial affairs, you would
2 know that this is what we should be doing in our
3 management of this house. There's just
4 absolutely no other way to do it.
5 I will be voting aye.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
7 the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
9 37. Party vote.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is lost.
12 Senator Leichter, would you like
13 to take up 3641 next?
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. Let's do
15 6608.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will
17 ask the Secretary to read the motion to
18 discharge on Senate 6608.
19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
20 Leichter, Senate Print 6608, an act to amend the
21 Legislative Law, in relation to creating a
22 Senate Management Council.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
3504
1 recognizes Senator Leichter.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3 President. This bill would set up a management
4 council with representatives from both the
5 Majority and the Minority to see that the
6 operations of the Senate as far as the
7 distribution of the resources, the efficient
8 operation of the facilities and offices which
9 provide support services for Senators other than
10 their own offices be run in an appropriate fair
11 manner.
12 This is a -- this follows a
13 system and a procedure that exists in the
14 Congress, and whatever criticism you can make of
15 the Congress, at least they treat members
16 fairly.
17 I want to say there were a lot of
18 self-laudatory comments earlier today by Senator
19 Skelos and Senator Velella, and there were even
20 some generous -- I thought overly generous
21 comments from some members on this side of the
22 aisle of how much we have achieved.
23 When you say, well, what have we
3505
1 achieved, somebody will say, "Well, we now have
2 a rule that we can not pass legislation in the
3 middle of the night." You know, that's a
4 pretty, pretty small achievement. I mean if
5 that is the reed that we're holding on to, it's
6 not going to give us much support, not when
7 there's so many things wrong with the management
8 of this house, when the procedures are not only
9 so closed but when they are so biased, when our
10 expenditures are really not subject to public
11 scrutiny, I think we have a long way to go.
12 I think Senator Bruno came, and
13 he made some promises when he took over as
14 Majority Leader. I think the steps that have
15 been taken were appropriate, but it's really
16 like the first two or three steps on a fairly
17 long journey. We have an awfully long way to
18 go. Management Councils would certainly be one
19 of the things that ought to be done.
20 Let me just mention one thing.
21 It's late, and I don't want to go on at length.
22 But I went over on a trip to the Massachusetts
23 Legislature which was arranged by a member of
3506
1 the Assembly, and I must tell you I was
2 astounded, simply astounded, how further ahead
3 they were than we were in democratic procedures;
4 and when I told them what some of our procedures
5 were -- these were Democrats and Republicans -
6 they couldn't believe it.
7 They could not believe that it is
8 almost impossible to amend a bill in this
9 house. They say, for instance, that their
10 budget is amended in numerous respects. People
11 come up and make proposals. Their committee
12 hearings not only are open to the public but the
13 public is given a chance to testify. They have
14 equal resources for both Majority and Minority
15 members. They have a televised debate. They
16 have from gavel to gavel. The only televised
17 debate we have here is when one of the members
18 of the Majority side wants to have his speech
19 recorded so that he can send it to his local
20 television station.
21 The other day I ran up there
22 because I saw somebody making some videos. I
23 had never -- I recognized that they were not
3507
1 part of any commercial station. They were
2 taking some videos of Senator Nozzolio. I
3 assume it was at the Senator's request. I don't
4 know why the public ought to pay for that,
5 Senator.
6 Well, you are shaking your head,
7 but I checked into it, and the person said, "I
8 was asked to come here to take a video of
9 Senator Nozzolio." Why can't we televise all of
10 the proceedings of the house, all members when
11 they get up so that the public can see how we
12 carry on our duties?
13 We really have such a long way to
14 go before we act in a way that the public can
15 look at us and say this is what a legislative, a
16 deliberative body should be like.
17 Senate Management Council is
18 certainly one of the things that we ought to
19 have, and I move my motion.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 motion is to discharge Senate 6608.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3508
1 will call the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
4 the negative.
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Party vote
6 in the affirmative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
8 the party line votes. Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
10 37. Party vote.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion is lost.
13 Secretary will read the motion to
14 discharge on Senate 3641.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
16 Leichter, Senate Print 3641, an act to amend the
17 Tax Law and the Administrative Code of the City
18 of New York, in relation to eliminating the
19 deduction for amounts expended for tobacco
20 advertising.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Leichter.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3509
1 President. I regret that we're doing this
2 motion at this hour; but, unfortunately, we were
3 forced to make all the motions of discharge on
4 one particular day.
5 Unlike, oh, I think all of the
6 other motions which we've had, which really
7 dealt more with how this house functions, the
8 openness with which government is to be
9 conducted, this one deals with a very specific
10 substantive issue, an attempt to try to
11 discourage smoking in this state by taking away
12 the deduction for tobacco companies for
13 advertising in this state. It would deny them
14 both the New York State and New York City
15 deduction that they get for advertising.
16 As we know, the advertising, of
17 course, aims to get more people to smoke, but
18 what is particularly reprehensible is that much
19 of this advertising has been aimed at young
20 people, and we have a serious problem of
21 teenagers smoking, particularly teenage girls.
22 Smoking is probably -- well, it
23 is something that is extremely -- has extreme
3510
1 health impact, costs us a great deal of money in
2 this state for having to take care of people who
3 suffer respiratory ailments or develop very
4 serious ailments and die as a result of
5 smoking. We ought to discourage it, but at the
6 very least, we should not allow tobacco
7 companies, in effect, to be subsidized by the
8 public by getting a deduction for advertisements
9 that gets people to do something as unhealthy as
10 smoking.
11 Move the motion, Mr. President.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger on the motion.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to be
17 heard on the motion.
18 I agree with Senator Leichter.
19 It is really regrettable that this comes up at
20 this hour because many of our colleagues who I
21 think would be here to join and perhaps break
22 party ranks on this issue, who believe as you
23 and I do that this is really one of the critical
3511
1 health problems that our nation faces because
2 what we have is a government-subsidized-at-the
3 time-of-production, a government-subsidized-at
4 the-time-of-marketing activity which
5 substantially damages this nation's health.
6 And it starts with children. It
7 starts with Joe Camel. It starts with Virginia
8 Slims. It starts with the Marlboro man, and you
9 can go run down the list of the advertising
10 tools that have been used to hook children on
11 the addictive drug of nicotine.
12 As the ranking Democrat on the
13 Senate Health Committee, this issue deserves
14 more attention. I point out that the
15 advertising even encourages criminal activity
16 because, as we all know, you can not sell
17 tobacco products to children under the age of
18 18, and I believe that the subsidy ought to
19 end.
20 I believe the subsidy for
21 marketing ought to end. We should put this
22 motion on the floor, should put the bill on the
23 floor and have a debate about whether a drug
3512
1 that is addictive to our population, which
2 causes millions and millions and millions of
3 dollars of health care to be spent in this
4 state, ought to be subsidized by public tax
5 deductions for their advertising.
6 I would close with one other
7 thought. If you need any example of why the
8 tobacco industry no longer should have any
9 benefit from government, read the article in
10 Vanity Fair this month about the gentleman who
11 came forward to testify against the tobacco
12 companies. The research and development
13 director of one of the major tobacco companies
14 has come forward to testify against them in
15 depositions and to support seven states in this
16 nation who are taking the affirmative case
17 against the tobacco companies forward by seeking
18 to recover from them the enormous billions of
19 dollars of cost that those companies have
20 foisted on the American public under the guise
21 of being cool and smoking and told the people of
22 this nation -- deluded them, through mass
23 marketing, that this is somehow fashionable.
3513
1 It is deadly. It is
2 distasteful. It is something America must stop,
3 and it starts by bringing to the floor of this
4 chamber a bill that would disallow tax
5 deductions for luring our children into a health
6 risk that will perhaps impair their future and
7 cost all of us millions of dollars.
8 Let's put a stop to this now.
9 Put the bill on the floor. Let's have a debate
10 about the future of king tobacco in New York,
11 and let's send a message to all of those
12 companies that the buck stops here, and we're
13 not going to allow them to deduct the bucks that
14 they are putting into destroying the health of
15 our children.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 question is on the motion to discharge Senate
18 3641.
19 All those in favor, signify by
20 saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (Response of "Nay.")
3514
1 The motion is lost.
2 Senator Stachowski, we have two
3 additional motions, one by Senator Waldon, also
4 one left by Senator Dollinger. What is your
5 preference as far as the order?
6 (Response inaudible).
7 All right. I'll ask the
8 Secretary to read the motion to discharge Senate
9 6456.
10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
11 Dollinger, Senate Print 6456, Concurrent
12 Resolution of the Senate and Assembly, proposing
13 amendments to Section 11 of Article 7 of the
14 Constitution.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair
16 recognizes Senator Dollinger.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
18 President. I just want to thank you on behalf
19 of perhaps this side of the aisle for your
20 patience in handling these motions today.
21 But this bill, this motion gives
22 the State Senate an opportunity to do something
23 that I think it might be very comfortable in
3515
1 doing, going back to the 19th century.
2 In fact, let's go back to 1846, a
3 good ripe old year, a time when conservatism
4 ruled the land, when the Republican view or the
5 view of let's not take things too far too fast,
6 let's not make too many changes; let's just sort
7 of slowly go through the process and see what
8 good government can give us.
9 In 1846, the New York State
10 Legislature and the voters of this state decided
11 that they were going to reverse a trend that had
12 occurred for 20 years. From 1826 to 1842, the
13 New York State Legislature did not raise taxes.
14 Not a penny in tax. Not one penny in tax. They
15 had tariffs, but they didn't have to charge any
16 taxes.
17 "Why?" might you ask, in this
18 time when the state was growing by leaps and
19 bounds. We were truly the Empire State. The
20 canal had been put in place. The birth of the
21 railroad was coming. The birth of the steam
22 engine driving the packets from Albany to New
23 York City was in full bloom. Why didn't the
3516
1 State Legislature raise taxes?
2 The answer is very, very simple.
3 For 16 years, the State of New York simply
4 borrowed every penny it needed to meet every
5 single expense that it had to pay. The
6 consequence was that in about 1843, there was a
7 crisis in liquidity in New York State. The
8 banks called the debt.
9 The state went virtually
10 bankrupt, causing a constitutional convention to
11 be called by the voters and by the State
12 Legislature in which they added one plank to the
13 New York State Constitution, only one. There
14 was only one ballot proposition put forward.
15 That ballot proposition said, no more will we
16 allow the State Legislature to float general
17 obligation bonds. Instead, we will require the
18 voters of this state to approve that debt before
19 it becomes legally binding.
20 In 1846, the voters of this state
21 took that constitutional amendment, made it a
22 part of our State Constitution; and, lo and
23 behold, for about 120 years it worked very well
3517
1 in putting restraints on the ability of the
2 Legislature to commit the state to long-term
3 expenditures through long-term bonds and
4 financing.
5 What they didn't count on in 1846
6 was the ingenuity of this Legislature and the
7 ingenuity of this government to get around that
8 prohibition on public debt in the State
9 Constitution; and, as a consequence, for the
10 last 20 years, the State of New York has engaged
11 in a back-door borrowing policy which, frankly,
12 accounts for our abysmally low bond rating and,
13 I believe, has astounded almost everyone in that
14 little part of New York they call Wall Street.
15 When they look at our bond
16 rating, they look at billions and billions of
17 dollars of expenditures committed for 10, 15,
18 20, 30 years, none of it backed by the full
19 faith and credit of the state that can only be
20 given by a plebiscite on a bond issue, by a vote
21 of the people.
22 What this motion does today is to
23 seek to put before this Senate exactly what the
3518
1 Legislature and the people thought they had
2 approved in 1846, a ban on the use of back-door
3 borrowing as a way to finance the state's
4 expenses, as a way to finance the state's
5 operation, to ban that back-door borrowing and
6 require, once again, the spirit of 1846 in that
7 good old day in New York State when the voters
8 alone would have the power to control public
9 debt.
10 I think our history in the last
11 20 years is a disgrace. I think we have used
12 every possible tool to get around it and, in my
13 judgment, wrongfully so. This bill would give
14 us an opportunity to restore to the people the
15 power to decide when and if New York will use
16 its long-term borrowing powers.
17 I will close with this note. We
18 have had a debate, I guess, all today about
19 whether this is substance or procedure. I
20 clearly understand why there may be 37 members
21 in this body who would prefer that all of this
22 be wrapped into the bundle of procedure.
23 From my point of view and I guess
3519
1 from the remainder of those 24 members, this is
2 as substantive as it gets. This is the only
3 chance we get to ask the Majority. You control
4 the agendas of the committees. You control the
5 agenda of the Senate. We now ask you to put
6 this on your agenda to show your faith with the
7 people of New York to take this opportunity to
8 be heard.
9 It's your only opportunity to be
10 heard. It's your only chance. You want to ban
11 back-door borrowing, this is your chance. This
12 is your opportunity. You've clearly got a
13 chance to do it. There is a way to do it. Vote
14 yes on this motion. Put it on the floor.
15 Let's hear you all resoundingly
16 tell everybody from Wall Street to Niagara
17 Falls, from Plattsburgh to Jamestown. Let's
18 tell everybody in the four corners of this state
19 that we want to cure our bad old habits, the bad
20 old habits we acquired in the last 130 years,
21 and we want to return to that good old time in
22 1846 when the people not the politicians held
23 the power of the purse.
3520
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 question is on the motion to discharge Senate
3 6456.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
5 the affirmative.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
10 the negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
12 the party line votes. Announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays
14 37. Party vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 motion is lost.
17 The Secretary will read the
18 motion to discharge on Senate 1915B.
19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
20 Waldon, Senate Print 1915B, an act to amend the
21 General Construction Law, in relation to
22 establishing Native American Day as a public
23 holiday.
3521
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
2 recognizes Senator Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
4 President. This is the last motion. I was
5 wondering what the score was.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Paterson, let me just remark. The score is -
8 I'm not sure exactly, but this move to open up
9 government has allowed rain to start coming in
10 from the ceiling, so I don't know whether we
11 want to continue or not.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Then I feel
13 like we're in the NCAA finals, Mr. President. I
14 think it's 12 to nothing, and so we're sending
15 up a pinch hitter. Senator Waldon,
16 unfortunately, had to be excused due to illness
17 today, and he has a motion that would make a
18 statewide holiday, which I think should be
19 tomorrow, but Senator Waldon would like it to be
20 the fourth Saturday in September. The fourth
21 Saturday in September would be a statewide
22 holiday in honor of Native Americans who lived
23 in New York before the settlement in 1607 and in
3522
1 1610, and these individuals who worked very hard
2 all through the centuries intervening have
3 helped to make New York great and helped to
4 build America.
5 Unfortunately and tragically,
6 many of them lost their lives in disputes with
7 the settlers that came from other lands. Many
8 of them were the recipients of bad treatment and
9 reneged promises, and we would like to recognize
10 them. Senator Waldon is aware that perhaps a
11 statewide holiday may not be able to be achieved
12 in this fashion; however, we feel that this
13 motion is important to put on the record and
14 bring to public attention so that perhaps we, as
15 a state, as great as our resources are and as
16 proud as our tradition has been since our state
17 government was founded, would like to find a way
18 to find accommodation for so many who have given
19 so much for the improvement and the betterment
20 of the quality of life all around New York.
21 And so we offer this motion at
22 this time, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3523
1 question is on the motion to discharge Senate
2 1915B.
3 All those in favor, signify by
4 saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (Response of "Nay.")
8 On a close vote, Senator
9 Paterson, the motion is lost.
10 That completes the series of
11 motions to discharge.
12 Senator Skelos, we do have one
13 housekeeping item, if we could return to motions
14 and resolutions.
15 Chair would recognize Senator
16 Tully.
17 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
18 President. On behalf of Senator Hoblock, on
19 page 30, I offer the following amendments to
20 Calendar Number 614, Senate Print Number 2612,
21 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
22 Third Reading Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
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1 Amendments to Calendar Number 614 are received
2 and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the
3 Third Reading Calendar.
4 Senator Onorato, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President.
6 Before we adjourn, we'd like to adjourn on a
7 happy note. We've had enough dampness put on
8 our motions to discharge today. Would you
9 inform the Office of General Services to please
10 fix the leak in the roof.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
12 you, Senator Onorato.
13 Senator Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
15 There being no further business, I move we
16 adjourn until Wednesday, April 17, 1996 at 11:00
17 a.m. sharp.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
19 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
20 tomorrow, Wednesday, April 17th at 11:00 a.m.
21 (Whereupon, at 5:58 p.m., Senate
22 adjourned.)
23