Regular Session - May 21, 1996

                                                                 
5452

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         May 21, 1996

        10                          3:05 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23











                                                             
5453

         1                       P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         4       find their places, the staff to find their

         5       places.  Ask everybody in the chamber to rise

         6       and join with me in saying the Pledge of

         7       Allegiance to the Flag.

         8                      (The assemblage repeated the

         9       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

        10                      In the absence of clergy, may we

        11       bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        12                      (A moment of silence was

        13       observed.)

        14                      Reading of the Journal.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        16       Monday, May 20th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon

        18       designation of the Temporary President.  The

        19       Prayer by the Reverend Peter Young, Blessed

        20       Sacrament Church, Bolton Landing.  The Journal

        21       of Sunday, May 19, was read and approved.  On

        22       motion, the Senate adjourned.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing











                                                             
5454

         1       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

         2       read.

         3                      Presentation of petitions.

         4                      Messages from the Assembly.

         5                      Messages from the Governor.

         6                      Reports of standing committees.

         7                      Reports of select committees.

         8                      Communications and reports from

         9       state officers.

        10                      Motions and resolutions.

        11                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        12       Tully.

        13                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      On behalf of Senator Levy, I wish

        16       to call up his bill, Senate Print Number 7569,

        17       which is now at the desk.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the title.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1221, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7569, an act

        22       to authorize the Roosevelt Union Free School

        23       District.











                                                             
5455

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Tully.

         3                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         4       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         5       bill was passed and ask that the bill be

         6       restored to the order of third reading.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        10       reconsideration.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 32.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is restored.

        14                      Senator Tully.

        15                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        16       now move to discharge from the Committee on

        17       Rules Assembly Print Number 10688 and substitute

        18       it for Senator Levy's identical bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       substitution is ordered.

        21                      SENATOR TULLY:  I now move that

        22       the substituted Assembly bill have its third

        23       reading at this time.











                                                             
5456

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1221, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         5       Assembly Print Number 10688, an act to authorize

         6       the Roosevelt Union Free School District.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll -- the Secretary will read the last

         9       section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 32.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      Senator Tully.

        19                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        20       behalf of Senator Rath, on page 43, I offer the

        21       following amendments to Calendar Number 943,

        22       Assembly Print Number 7366-A, and ask that said

        23       bill retain its place on the Third Reading











                                                             
5457

         1       Calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       amendments to Calendar Number 943 are received

         4       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         5       the Third Reading Calendar.

         6                      Senator Tully.

         7                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

         8       behalf of Senator Maziarz, on page 20, I offer

         9       the following amendments to Calendar Number 670,

        10       Senate Print Number 6355-A, and ask that said

        11       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        12       Calendar.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       amendments to Calendar Number 670 are received

        15       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        16       the Third Reading Calendar.

        17                      Senator Tully.

        18                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        19       behalf of Senator Hannon, on page 50, I offer

        20       the following amendments to Calendar Number

        21       1010, Assembly Print Number 7428, and ask that

        22       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        23       Calendar.











                                                             
5458

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       amendments to Calendar Number 1010 are received

         3       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         4       the Third Reading Calendar.

         5                      Senator Tully.

         6                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

         7       behalf of Senator Lack, on page 55, I offer the

         8       following amendments to Calendar Number 1056,

         9       Assembly Print Number 4757, and ask that said

        10       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        11       calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       amendments to Calendar Number 1056 are received

        14       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        15       the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                      Senator Tully.

        17                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        18       behalf of Senator Cook, on page 23, I offer the

        19       following amendments to Calendar Number 719,

        20       Senate Print Number 3220-A, and ask that said

        21       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        22       Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The











                                                             
5459

         1       amendments to Calendar 719 are received and

         2       adopted.  The bill will retain its place on the

         3       Third Reading Calendar.

         4                      Senator Tully.

         5                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

         6       behalf of Senator Maltese, on page 73, I offer

         7       the following amendments to Calendar Number

         8       1198, Senate Print Number 3086-A, and ask that

         9       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        10       Calendar.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       amendments to Calendar Number 1198 are received

        13       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        14       the Third Reading Calendar.

        15                      We have substitutions at the

        16       desk, Senator Skelos.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Make the

        18       substitutions.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the substitutions.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 54,

        22       Senator Holland moves to discharge from the

        23       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8158-B











                                                             
5460

         1       and substitute it for the identical Third

         2       Reading Calendar 1040.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       substitution is ordered.

         5                      Senator Skelos.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         7       at this time may we please adopt the Resolution

         8       Calendar.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar.  All

        11       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye".)

        13                      Opposed, nay.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      The Resolution Calendar is

        16       adopted.

        17                      Senator Skelos.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

        19       recognize Senator Stachowski.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Stachowski.

        22                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Mr.

        23       President, there's a privileged res... I believe











                                                             
5461

         1       there's a privileged resolution at the desk -

         2       that's what I was thinking -- by Senator Smith.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There are

         4       two privileged resolutions at the desk.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Would you

         6       waive the readings and read the titles.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the title to the first

         9       privileged resolution.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Smith,

        11       Legislative Resolution honoring Assistant Chief

        12       Robert F. Burke for his outstanding leadership

        13       and ceaseless dedicated service to the Patrol

        14       Borough Queens South community on Wednesday, May

        15       22nd, 1996.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        18       favor signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The resolution is adopted.

        23                      The Secretary will read the title











                                                             
5462

         1       to the second privileged resolution.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Smith,

         3       Legislative Resolution honoring Deputy Chief

         4       Jules Martin for his outstanding leadership and

         5       ceaseless dedicated service to the Patrol

         6       Borough Queens South community on Wednesday, May

         7       22nd, 1996.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        10       favor signify by saying aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye".)

        12                      Opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The resolution is adopted.

        15                      Senator Skelos, that brings us to

        16       the calendar.

        17                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Finance

        18       meeting, please, in Room 332.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        20       will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

        21       Committee on Finance in the Majority Conference

        22       Room, Room 332.  Immediate meeting of the Senate

        23       Committee on Finance in the Majority Conference











                                                             
5463

         1       Room, Room 332.

         2                      Senator Skelos.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         4       at this time if we could have a reading of the

         5       non-controversial calendar.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the non-controversial

         8       calendar.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  On page number 7,

        10       Calendar Number 314, by Senator Holland, Senate

        11       Print 213 -

        12                      SENATOR SMITH:  Lay it aside,

        13       please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       391, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2595-A, an

        18       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        19       relation to criminal screening.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 120th day.











                                                             
5464

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       691, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4216-A, an

         9       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to auto

        10       stripping.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 10.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first day of

        15       November.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       701, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 1984-A -











                                                             
5465

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       702, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2104, an

         6       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

         7       to evidence of child neglect.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        11       act shall take effect 120 days.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       703, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2106, an

        20       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

        21       to dispositional alternatives.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
5466

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       715, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6654-A, an

        11       act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation

        12       to providing for involuntary admissions.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5467

         1       729, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6518, an

         2       act to amend the Executive Law and the General

         3       Municipal Law, in relation to the classification

         4       of offenses.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

         8       act shall take effect on the first day of

         9       November.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       735, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6906-A, an

        18       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        19       marketing health maintenance organization

        20       coverage.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This











                                                             
5468

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       787, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 7102, an

        10       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        11       providing a fraud tipster incentive.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       863, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6951, an











                                                             
5469

         1       act to amend the Penal Law and the Family Court

         2       Act, in relation to conditions of probation.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the first day of

         7       November.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       866, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2597, an

        16       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

        17       to restitution and community service.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the first day of

        22       November.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
5470

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       873, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6865, an

         8       act to amend the State Administrative Procedure

         9       Act, in relation to guidance documents.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       884, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 2884, an act

        22       to amend the Executive Law and the Estates,

        23       Powers and Trusts Law.











                                                             
5471

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       885, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3091 -

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       890, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6131, an

        18       act to amend Chapter 759 of the Laws of 1973,

        19       relating to the transfer of lands.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.











                                                             
5472

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       892, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6585, an

         9       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        10       towns and villages.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       893, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6738, an act

        23       in relation to authorizing the conveyance of a











                                                             
5473

         1       permanent easement.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       899, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6904,

        14       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        15       Law, in relation to importation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 13.  This

        19       act shall take effect January 1.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.











                                                             
5474

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       933, by Senator Present, Senate Print 6854 -

         5                      SENATOR SMITH:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       934, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6859, an

        10       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        11       relation to the approval of urban renewal plans.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       935, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 6936, an











                                                             
5475

         1       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         2       relation to allowing for the use of fire

         3       training centers.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       937, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 6966, an act

        16       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        17       to administrative review of assessments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the second day of

        22       January.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the











                                                             
5476

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       963, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7097, an

         8       act to amend -

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        11       bill aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       972, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7043, an

        14       act to amend the Education Law and the

        15       Retirement and Social Security Law, in relation

        16       to loans to members.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                             
5477

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       973, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7108, an

         6       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         7       Law, in relation to retirement benefits.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       977, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6191, an

        20       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        21       relation to increasing penalties.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.











                                                             
5478

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the first day of

         3       November.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       978, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6192, an

        12       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        13       relation to the offense of operation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the first day of

        18       November.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill











                                                             
5479

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       979, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6247,

         4       an act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation

         5       to the operation of a vessel.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       980, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 6609, an act

        18       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        19       relation to the commission of a predicate

        20       felony.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5480

         1       act shall take effect on the first day of

         2       September.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       981, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7251, an act

        11       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        12       relation to the effect of a prior out of state

        13       conviction.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
5481

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       983, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7338, an

         3       act to amend -

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1031, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5572-A, an

         9       act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation

        10       to the period of probable usefulness.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1096, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4420-C, an

        23       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to











                                                             
5482

         1       parole for certain sex offenders.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         5       This -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1098, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4715, an

        11       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to arson

        12       in the first degree.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number











                                                             
5483

         1       1100, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         2       Print 5494-A, an act to amend the Criminal

         3       Procedure Law and the Public Authorities Law, in

         4       relation to peace officer status.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1115, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7032, an

        10       act to amend the Public Housing Law, in relation

        11       to creating the town of Allegany Housing

        12       Authority.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      Senator Skelos, that completes











                                                             
5484

         1       the calling of the controversial calendar.  We

         2       do have a report of the Finance Committee at the

         3       desk.  What's your pleasure?

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please, if we

         5       would return to reports of standing committees,

         6       please read the report of the Finance Committee.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         8       return to the order of reports of standing

         9       committees.

        10                      I'll ask the Secretary to read

        11       the report of the Senate Finance Committee.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        13       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        14       following bills directly to third reading:

        15       Senate Print 7578, by the Senate Committee on

        16       Rules, an act making appropriations for the

        17       support of government;

        18                      Senate Print 7579, by the Senate

        19       Committee on Rules, an act making appropriations

        20       for the support of government.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, all bills are directed directly to

        23       third reading.











                                                             
5485

         1                      Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         3       if we could take up the controversial calendar.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the controversial calendar

         6       beginning with Calendar Number 314, by Senator

         7       Holland.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 7,

         9       Calendar Number 314, by Senator Holland, Senate

        10       Print 213, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

        11       relation to the validity of a license to carry

        12       or possess a pistol.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        16       at this time on Calendar Number 314, would you

        17       please recognize Senator Maziarz for the purpose

        18       of voting.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect on the first day of

        23       November.











                                                             
5486

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Maziarz, how do you vote?

         6                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I vote in the

         7       affirmative, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative.

        10       The roll call is withdrawn.  We're on debate on

        11       Calendar Number 314.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Holland, an explanation of Calendar Number 314

        15       has been asked for by the Acting Minority

        16       Leader, Senator Paterson.

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, you,

        18       of course, know this bill.  It is introduced in

        19       this house every year and passes this house

        20       every year since either before or mid-Gene

        21       Levy's term.  What it does is try to make the

        22       state one state, an equal and fair situation

        23       with the carrying of licensed firearms.











                                                             
5487

         1                      You know today that if you are

         2       issued a licensed -- license to carry a firearm

         3       in the city of New York, you can carry that in

         4       any county in the state, but if you, on the

         5       other hand, are issued a license to carry a

         6       pistol, et cetera, in any of the 57 counties

         7       outside of the state of New York, you cannot

         8       carry that in the city of New York unless it is

         9       in a locked box in your trunk and you do not

        10       stop.  I consider this unfair and many, many

        11       other people do as well.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        13       Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      When I first came to the Senate,

        17       this was actually one of my favorite debates

        18       that Senator Gold and Senator Levy used to have,

        19       and they would always talk about the times that

        20       Senator Levy's wife was unable to bring her gun

        21       to New York City.  So in that spirit, if Senator

        22       Holland would yield for a question.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir.  This











                                                             
5488

         1       is not one of your favorite debates anymore; is

         2       that the idea?

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, I'm just

         4       hoping, Senator Holland, that you and I can live

         5       up to the standard that our predecessors have

         6       set.

         7                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Certainly, sir.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I wanted to

         9       ask you as I'm sure a person who is an advocate

        10       for a certain amount of control that local

        11       governments would have why there would not be a

        12       greater understanding of New York City's desire

        13       to control the firearms that come into the

        14       city?  We love for people all around the state

        15       to come to New York City, to come to shows, to

        16       come to see the historic and cultural value that

        17       New York City offers.  We just kind of, in the

        18       way that Wyatt Earp did, want everybody to check

        19       their guns at the door, so to speak, and make

        20       sure that only those individuals who had permits

        21       within the City, or licensed law enforcement

        22       would have that prerogative, and since it is

        23       something that the local government has asked











                                                             
5489

         1       for among the states, since it is something that

         2       Mayor Koch, Mayor Dinkins and Mayor Giuliani

         3       have continued to advocate for, I just don't

         4       understand why we continue to debate this bill

         5       when it's clear that the residents of the City

         6       have spoken and the residents of the City would

         7       rather not have firearms being carried on the

         8       premises.

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, I do

        10       agree with you on the local control issue.

        11       However, I -- people who have licensed -

        12       licenses to carry pistols are not the people

        13       that cause any problems, whether it's in the

        14       city of New York or in the upstate 57 counties,

        15       you know, and we've gone over this many times,

        16       that anybody who applies for a pistol license

        17       cannot get it for at least three months,

        18       probably six months and their fingerprints must

        19       go to the FBI.  They must be checked out with

        20       BCI, mental health.  They must take a safety

        21       course.  Even in Rockland County they must have

        22       a letter from their spouse of whether they

        23       object to having the weapon carried, the license











                                                             
5490

         1       issued or not.

         2                      These people do not cause the

         3       problems regardless of where they are, Senator,

         4       and if they do, we have every bit of information

         5       on them and we will take their weapon away from

         6       them and never let them carry a weapon again,

         7       and these are not the weapons that are causing

         8       any problem in the city of New York or Buffalo

         9       or Syracuse or wherever.  Those weapons are

        10       unlicensed and come from out of the state of New

        11       York for the most part.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      If Senator Holland would continue

        15       to yield.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, your

        18       point is -- is correct, and in an overwhelming

        19       amount of cases involving crimes that are

        20       committed with firearms, you are absolutely

        21       right, and I wouldn't want to mislead you or

        22       anyone else into thinking that we believe that

        23       the individuals who have licenses around the











                                                             
5491

         1       state are causing the problems in New York City

         2       or contributing to any criminality or violent

         3       crime in the City.

         4                      What we are simply saying is that

         5       New York City as a local government has a set of

         6       standards, a set of standards that varies from

         7       other parts of this state.  In fact, the issue

         8       about the spouse writing a letter is something

         9       that I don't believe exists in New York City,

        10       and there are probably some standards that New

        11       York City has set that may not be consistent

        12       with policy all around the other 57 or so

        13       counties around the state.

        14                      What we are saying is that the

        15       point that you made, the stringent standard, the

        16       three- to six-month waiting list for the other

        17       requirements are something that are taken very

        18       seriously, and the City has delineated what the

        19       City believes to be the standard, again

        20       supported by all three of our last mayors, going

        21       back to 1977, that we would have this standard,

        22       and we would just hope that other counties

        23       around the state would understand that that's











                                                             
5492

         1       something in a city as large as New York City

         2       that we would like to maintain.

         3                      The final question I just would

         4       have for you is, you know, just relating to the

         5       similarity of this desire that the City has with

         6       the desires of other local governments around

         7       the state that we vote for all the time.  Do you

         8       see the similarity?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Paterson and Senator Holland, if you would

        11       excuse for a moment an interruption, I would

        12       just like to recognize Senator Johnson.

        13                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      I would just like to say that

        16       this is a good bill.  This bill has my support

        17       as in the past.  We should have one standard for

        18       the state.  We are a state, the united state of

        19       the United States, and that provincialism is

        20       sometimes overdone in the name of local

        21       government.

        22                      Mr. President, at this time I

        23       would also like you to recognize a group of high











                                                             
5493

         1       school students from the 4th Senate District in

         2       my "Senate For a Day" program.  They're here to

         3       observe the proceedings, and I'm sure it will be

         4       a very enlightened afternoon to them.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Thank

         6       you, Senator Johnson, and it's our pleasure also

         7       to welcome the students here to witness the

         8       deliberations on this bill today.

         9                      Welcome to the state Capitol.

        10                      Excuse the interruption, Senator

        11       Paterson and Senator Holland.

        12                      Senator Paterson, you have the

        13       floor.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, I do

        15       agree with local control and I buy your

        16       argument.  On the other hand, would you think it

        17       fair if the county of Westchester or the county

        18       of Rockland or the county of Orange where many

        19       of the major highways go, such as the Palisades

        20       and the New York State Thruway go north out of

        21       the city of New York, if they implemented the

        22       same law that wouldn't allow licensed pistol

        23       holders from the city of New York to carry their











                                                             
5494

         1       weapons in our counties; do you think that would

         2       be fair?

         3                      I think this is a situation where

         4       it should be a statewide law, and I learned

         5       recently, Senator, that the reason this came

         6       about in the first place is not the money

         7       because the City charges $150 for the license

         8       and the upstate charges are much less, but many

         9       years ago, the people of the city of New York

        10       used to go to the upstate counties and get their

        11       licenses very quickly, very cheaply and then

        12       carry them back into the city of New York.

        13       That's why this was originated originally.

        14                      Today's it's much, much

        15       different.  Our judges won't give a license to

        16       carry almost ever, and this is -- should be a

        17       statewide bill.  I certainly -- it's certain

        18       that you agree that you wouldn't like

        19       Westchester, Rockland or Orange to limit your

        20       people in carrying weapons through our

        21       counties.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  You're asking

        23       me to yield for the question, Senator?











                                                             
5495

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No.  I just

         2       made a statement, Senator.

         3                      Thank you.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.  I would

         5       be happy it answer that.  I think that -- I

         6       understand the problem that individuals who are

         7       licensed to carry firearms would come -- or

         8       carry pistols would come into New York City on a

         9       regular basis and it would be difficult.

        10       Perhaps they're traveling.  They can carry the

        11       pistol in other counties of the state and maybe

        12       they are forced due to business, investigators

        13       from the Attorney General's Office or something

        14       and they're now coming to New York City, that

        15       there's a problem because once they cross the

        16       line that they're in violation.

        17                      What I thought, Senator, is that

        18       we had a remedy for those types of situations

        19       where if they can show that there's a high

        20       standard of a need or a use, that they could

        21       still apply to have a permit when they come into

        22       New York City.

        23                      In answer to your question about











                                                             
5496

         1       what the other localities are fairly or unfairly

         2       determining, I think that it would be something

         3       that is within the scope of the locality's

         4       purview because the whole existence of weapons

         5       and firearms in this society is one that is very

         6       controversial.

         7                      There are good points to be made

         8       on both sides as you have done in this debate,

         9       Senator, and therefore, if that's what the

        10       counties of Westchester, Rockland and Orange

        11       County are -- are suggesting, then that's what

        12       I'll do, and I'll promise you right here,

        13       Senator, I will never carry a firearm in

        14       Rockland County.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Thank you.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Any

        17       other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      Read the last section.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Paterson.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  May we have a











                                                             
5497

         1       slow roll call on this?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Slow

         3       roll call has been asked for.  The Secretary

         4       will call the roll.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

         6                      SENATOR ABATE:  No.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         8       last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the first day of

        11       November.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        13       Secretary will call the roll and will the

        14       Sergeant-at-Arms please get the members into the

        15       chamber.  Slow roll call.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Alesi.

        17                      (Affirmative indication)

        18                      Senator Babbush.  Senator Babbush

        19       excused.

        20                      Senator Bruno.

        21                      (Affirmative indication)

        22                      Senator Connor.

        23                      (There was no response.)











                                                             
5498

         1                      Senator Cook.

         2                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         4       DeFrancisco.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator DiCarlo.

         7                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         9       Dollinger.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      Senator Espada.

        12                      SENATOR ESPADA:  No.

        13                      Senator Farley.

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Gonzalez excused.

        18                      Senator Goodman.

        19                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hannon.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Hoblock.

        23                      SENATOR HOBLOCK:  Yes.











                                                             
5499

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann.

         2                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Explain my

         3       vote.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         5       Hoffmann to explain her vote.

         6                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      I share the sentiment expressed

         9       earlier by Senator Johnson on this issue.  I too

        10       believe that occasionally provincialism takes

        11       over and -- in the name of local autonomy, and I

        12       believe that there are many people in New York

        13       State, certainly in the upstate region who

        14       believe that they are, in fact, discriminated

        15       against and that their local rules are being

        16       discriminated against or ignored by the city of

        17       New York.  I think that it's long overdue that

        18       we pass a statewide pistol permit and on behalf

        19       of the people of Onondaga, Oneida and Madison

        20       Counties, I will vote aye.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Hoffmann in the affirmative.  Continue the roll

        23       call.











                                                             
5500

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

         4                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.

         6                      SENATOR KRUGER:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Senator Lachman.

        10                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack

        12       excused.

        13                      Senator Larkin.

        14                      (Affirmative indication)

        15                      Senator LaValle.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Leibell.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      Senator Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        21       just briefly.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        23       Leichter to explain his vote.











                                                             
5501

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  On the bill.

         2       This bill certainly has been aired over the

         3       years, but I'm sort of amused when people get up

         4       and say, Well, this is one state, and I keep on

         5       seeing bill after bill after bill coming out of

         6       the Majority which makes different rules for

         7       Suffolk and different rules for Rockland and

         8       Ulster.  Senator Larkin just had a bill about,

         9       Well, voting in Ulster is different now.  Well,

        10       you've got to realize, you know, there's

        11       regional differences.  There's variations, and

        12       so on.

        13                      We have a very good reason for

        14       saying we don't want people who are not licensed

        15       by the city of New York to carry guns in the

        16       City both for their protection.  It always

        17       scared me when Gene Levy got up and would say

        18       about his wife going to the airport, and so on,

        19       and I said God forbid that she ever runs into

        20       some of the people in New York City where there

        21       would be a confrontation, and so on, because she

        22       would really be at risk and, in fact, the

        23       statistics show that in many instances, maybe











                                                             
5502

         1       more than 50 percent where somebody who is

         2       licensed to carry a gun, a bodega store owner,

         3       and so on, tries to protect himself or herself

         4       against some thugs, it's the bodega store owner

         5       that gets shot.

         6                      So we have had mayors, Democratic

         7       and Republican; we have had police commissioners

         8       of every which stripe, Commissioner Bratton

         9       being the most recent that says, For God's sakes

        10       for the protection of the people of the city of

        11       New York and for the protection of people who

        12       come from upstate and who are licensed to use a

        13       gun upstate may use it perfectly safely and well

        14       and properly.  It's a different situation in the

        15       city of New York.  Therefore, for the protection

        16       of everyone, we need that special licensing

        17       provision.  There are, in this instance, as you

        18       people argue for your pet little bills,

        19       variations, regional differences that you need

        20       to recognize.

        21                      Mr. President, I vote in the

        22       negative.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator











                                                             
5503

         1       Leichter in the negative.  Continue the roll

         2       call.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy.

         4                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

         6                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Marcellino.

        11                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Aye.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        13                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        15       Markowitz.

        16                      SENATOR MARKOWITZ:  No.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maziarz

        18       voting in the affirmative earlier.

        19                      Senator Mendez.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        22       Montgomery.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator











                                                             
5504

         1       Montgomery to explain her vote.

         2                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  I just would like to be on record

         4       once again absolutely opposing this notion that

         5       we should for reasons that I can never reconcile

         6       -- because if you are so fearful of coming into

         7       the City that you need a gun, it means that you

         8       obviously have the feeling that you're going to

         9       have to shoot someone, if you come across the

        10       bridge, the -- and the mayor has indicated his

        11       opposition.

        12                      We do know that we already have

        13       too many guns on the streets and not only do we

        14       have too many guns on the streets, Mr.

        15       President, but we have guns in the hands of

        16       children, and that is a very big problem, and so

        17       if Senator Holland happens to come into New York

        18       and he has his pistol, even though he has a

        19       license to do it and someone mugs him on the

        20       street, takes his gun, he can't -- he's not fast

        21       enough to shoot them.  They take the gun and now

        22       the gun is in the hands of the wrong person, and

        23       what do we need with that?  He hasn't gained











                                                             
5505

         1       anything and we haven't gained anything in New

         2       York City.

         3                      So I'm opposed to this.  It

         4       serves no purpose.  It does not protect anyone.

         5       It is not in anyone's interest and especially it

         6       is not in the interest of citizens in New York

         7       City.

         8                      So, Mr. President, I vote no.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Montgomery in the negative.  Continue the roll

        11       call.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nanula.

        13                      SENATOR NANULA:  No.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nozzolio.

        15                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

        17                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        19       Oppenheimer.

        20                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  No.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        22       Oppenheimer, how did you vote?

        23                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Oh, I said











                                                             
5506

         1       no.  Sorry.  I thought it was loud.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         5       Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

         8                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

        10                      SENATOR RATH:  Aye.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago.

        14                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seabrook.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Sears.

        18                      SENATOR SEARS:  Aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

        20                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Aye.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.











                                                             
5507

         1                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         5       Stachowski.

         6                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Yes.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford.

         8                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stavisky

        10       excused.

        11                      Senator Trunzo.

        12                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        14                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Volker.

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        20                      (Negative indication)

        21                      Senator Wright.

        22                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The











                                                             
5508

         1       Secretary will call the absentees.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         3       DeFrancisco.

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         6       Dollinger.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Senator Hannon.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl.

        13                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Leibell.

        17                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Seabrook.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Velella.

        23                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.











                                                             
5509

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         2       Results.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36, nays

         4       17.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      Senator Cook.

         8                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

         9       know that we're breaking with tradition,

        10       probably breaking rules, but we do have some

        11       visitors from the state of Baden-Wurttemberg,

        12       Germany, Rotary -- on a Rotary tour who are in

        13       the gallery observing the proceedings today, and

        14       I thought it might be appropriate if we could

        15       recognize their presence and extend to them a

        16       greeting.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  We'll

        18       recognize the presence of the constituents of

        19       Senator Cook.  Hope you'll enjoy your visit to

        20       the Capitol today.

        21                      Senator Padavan.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

        23       could we reconsider the vote by which Senate -











                                                             
5510

         1       Calendar 691, Senate Bill 4216-A passed

         2       earlier?  Don't you need the motion?  Recall

         3       it.  All right.  Lay it aside for an amendment.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         5       Padavan, that bill is out of the house, but

         6       we'll try to get it back for you to be

         7       recalled.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        10       Secretary will read Calendar Number 701.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       701, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 1984-A -

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        15       Cook.

        16                      SENATOR COOK:  Lest our guests

        17       wonder why we are being -- having so much

        18       levity, I would simply point out that the

        19       presiding officer just included half of Germany

        20       in my Senatorial District by virtue of the way

        21       he introduced you, and that's what -- everybody

        22       is quite amused by that.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator











                                                             
5511

         1       Cook has a very diverse district, and he will

         2       welcome votes from Germany or any place else he

         3       can get them.  So thank you for being here.

         4                      The Secretary will continue the

         5       calendar.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       701, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 1984-A, an

         8       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         9       qualifications of employment.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  An

        12       explanation has been asked for on Calendar

        13       Number 701.

        14                      Senator DiCarlo -- could we

        15       please have a little order in the chamber.  Ask

        16       the members to please take their seats.

        17                      Senator DiCarlo.

        18                      SENATOR DiCARLO:  Mr. President,

        19       this bill prohibits the Division for Youth from

        20       employing any direct care staff who's been

        21       convicted of felonies and authorizes the

        22       director to refuse to employ any direct care

        23       staff who has been convicted of a misdemeanor.











                                                             
5512

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         2       last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call -

         6       Senator Montgomery, do you wish to be

         7       recognized?

         8                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, I do.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Montgomery.

        11                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you.

        12                      Mr. President, I am going to vote

        13       no on this bill.  I think that I may be the only

        14       person in the chamber to do so, but I want to

        15       explain my vote briefly.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        17       Montgomery, can we interrupt you for a second

        18       and read the last section and then we'll

        19       recognize you to explain your vote?

        20                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Okay.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        22       last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This











                                                             
5513

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         3       Montgomery.

         4                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         6       roll.  I'm sorry.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         9       Montgomery.

        10                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.  One, I

        11       have voted for this bill in prior legislative

        12       sessions because I have knowledge of a program,

        13       a particular program.  It is in my district and

        14       it is also -- it started at the location of some

        15       prisons in the state, one of them in Staten

        16       Island.

        17                      It is a program that seeks to

        18       rehabilitate prisoners in particular.  The

        19       primary people involved in the rehabilitative

        20       process are former inmates themselves.  I have

        21       met some of those people, and I have been

        22       extremely impressed with the fact of their

        23       degree of intelligence and understanding and











                                                             
5514

         1       insight and motivation and commitment to helping

         2       people reform themselves, and one of the

         3       advantages of having them be a part of the

         4       program is that they know more about the

         5       personality that they deal with than someone who

         6       has never had experience in the ways that they

         7       have.

         8                      So I think it is really -- we are

         9       losing a valuable resource when we summarily

        10       legislate that they shall never be eligible or

        11       this -- a person in that category is not

        12       eligible any longer to work with people in this

        13       -- in situations as this bill seeks to deal

        14       with.

        15                      So I'm opposed to it.  I think

        16       that we need to have much more latitude and

        17       flexibility, and certainly I think that we

        18       should definitely allow for people who have this

        19       kind of experience to give -- to share that

        20       experience, especially since it's so successful

        21       in the programs that I'm aware of.

        22                      So I vote no.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator











                                                             
5515

         1       Montgomery in the negative.

         2                      Senator Abate to explain her

         3       vote.

         4                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  Last year I

         5       voted against this bill because I felt that it

         6       was written so broadly it did not define "direct

         7       care".  I feel strongly that individuals in DFY

         8       that are there for security and supervision

         9       purposes should not have prior felony records.

        10       However, there are other employees that do not

        11       have necessarily direct supervision over the

        12       youth and it may not be as relevant to eliminate

        13       these employees.

        14                      I'm also concerned about how

        15       broadly it's written if someone was convicted of

        16       a felony, possession of drugs 10, 15, 20 years

        17       ago and they have been outstanding citizens.

        18       They, in fact, provide drug counseling and drug

        19       treatment, have redeemed themselves and maybe

        20       even received a Certificate of Relief from the

        21       courts.  This would also eliminate that

        22       individual.

        23                      So while I agree with the intent











                                                             
5516

         1       of the bill that it's important for those

         2       positions that are similar to corrections staff

         3       in DOCS be free of felony conviction, I believe

         4       as the proposed legislation is crafted now, it

         5       is much too broad and for those reasons, I

         6       cannot support this legislation again this year.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         8       Abate in the negative.

         9                      Announce the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 701 are Senators

        12       Abate, Kruger, Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson

        13       and Smith.  Ayes 51, nays 6.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       885, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3091, an

        18       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        19       cooperation between police agencies and the

        20       United States Immigration and Naturalization

        21       Service.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Read the

        23       transcript from last year.  You think that might











                                                             
5517

         1       suffice?  No.  I didn't think so.

         2                      Mr. President, this is a very

         3       simple bill.  What it says directly is if

         4       someone is arrested for committing a crime and

         5       the local police or district attorneys suspect

         6       that that individual is an illegal alien, that

         7       they notify INS for obvious reasons, and that's

         8       what the bill does.  Nothing more, nothing

         9       less.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        11       Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      If Senator Padavan would yield

        15       for a question.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        17       Padavan, will you yield?

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I did

        22       make use of looking at last year's transcript,

        23       and we were talking about the Executive Order











                                                             
5518

         1       124, which I'm sure you're familiar with, New

         2       York City executive order which has existed back

         3       since the days of Mayor Koch, continued by Mayor

         4       Dinkins and further continued by Mayor Giuliani,

         5       and you cited to me a case in the Bronx in which

         6       an individual was not questioned by police after

         7       he was found to be selling drugs, and it was a

         8       pretty horrible incident that you described, and

         9       in this particular case, it was pretty apparent

        10       that there was not a check to see whether or not

        11       this person was a citizen.  In fact, they were

        12       an illegal alien, and this is kind of the

        13       landmark type of situation that your bill

        14       addresses, but in our discussion, you seemed to

        15       indicate that the executive order was being

        16       amended, and my question is if the executive

        17       order was amended, can you show me where it was

        18       because as late as May 8th, I have been in

        19       contact with the mayor's office and I just can't

        20       find where they amended Executive Order 124.

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right,

        22       Senator.  First, the basis of my making that

        23       statement to you was a media report which I











                                                             
5519

         1       realize from time to time can be inaccurate, but

         2       I will quote the report that I'm reading from.

         3       "Mayor Giuliani and Police Commissioner William

         4       Bratton met Tuesday to discuss the news report

         5       on the Rodriguez case and decided to change

         6       current policy in which the police department

         7       selectively notifies the Immigration and

         8       Naturalization Service about illegal aliens who

         9       are picked up on arrests.  The aim of the

        10       current policy based on a 1989 executive order"

        11       -- it goes on to talk about that, which I'm

        12       sure you realize.  He said, "Giuliani had

        13       directed Bratton to meet with INS Regional

        14       Commissioner William Slattery to discuss better

        15       coordination."

        16                      So, in effect, what he had done

        17       is directed the police commissioner to meet with

        18       INS to set up a system of coordination, that

        19       when they arrested someone for obviously

        20       committing a crime and they suspected that he

        21       was an illegal alien, that they would

        22       "coordinate" -- quote, "coordinate" with INS.

        23       That was my reason for saying that to you,











                                                             
5520

         1       Senator.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      If Senator Padavan would continue

         5       to yield.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, let me

         8       put it this way, Senator Padavan.  Do you have

         9       any information as to whether or not this

        10       actually occurred, because I have a question

        11       relating to the need for this bill if they

        12       actually did that, but I guess I don't have to

        13       answer it because you haven't given me any

        14       indication that they have actually implemented

        15       the amendment for this executive order and not

        16       only that, aren't you glad we debated again this

        17       year because, if not, you would have gone on

        18       believing that news report that's been over a

        19       year and now -

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator,

        21       whether or not -- may I answer your question?

        22       You wish me to answer it?  I don't want to

        23       interrupt you.











                                                             
5521

         1                      Senator, whether or not Executive

         2       Order 124 was amended formally or the mayor by

         3       direction to his commissioner told him to do

         4       something is irrelevant because what we want to

         5       do is put in law that irrespective of an

         6       executive order that varies with a mayor and is

         7       applicable outside the city of New York as well,

         8       that we want local law enforcement agencies -

         9       many do this as a matter of routine, but we want

        10       it in law that they will.  That's what

        11       distinguishes this from any administrative

        12       order.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        15       Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If Senator

        17       Padavan would continue to yield.

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        20       Padavan yields.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  All right,

        22       Senator.  What we'll do is we'll talk about the

        23       bill.  I just thought it was good that we











                                                             
5522

         1       debated it again this year because perhaps Mayor

         2       Giuliani would like to amend the executive order

         3       now which would comply with what is really the

         4       thrust of your legislation whether or not it

         5       becomes law this particular year.  That's why I

         6       thought I might point it out.

         7                      Now, on the bill itself, if the

         8       Senator would yield.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  We are talking

        11       here, Senator, about individuals who have been

        12       arrested for committing crimes.  We do have a

        13       law now that convicted criminals are

        14       investigated as a matter of course to determine

        15       whether or not they were citizens at the time of

        16       their conviction; is that not correct?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.  We have

        18       about 4,000 of them in state prisons at the

        19       current time, although this governor has begun a

        20       process of deportation which is reducing that

        21       number, but that is so just as you stated it.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  If the Senator

        23       would continue to yield.











                                                             
5523

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Then, Senator,

         3       the probable cause that might be established

         4       that the individual committed a crime relating

         5       to their citizenship or the fact that they may

         6       be illegal aliens, would you be willing to

         7       explain for me what the relationship is?  In

         8       other words, if a person is arrested for

         9       committing a crime, even if we determine that

        10       there's a likelihood that they did, even if we

        11       come to a subjective determination that they did

        12       even though they haven't been convicted, how

        13       does it help us during the time we're pursuing

        14       the criminal case against them for us to know at

        15       that point whether or not they are illegal

        16       aliens?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let's go back

        18       to the -- how does it -- we know?  I'm not

        19       sure -

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.  You've

        21       outlined in your explanation how we know.  I'm

        22       saying what is the need for us to know up to the

        23       point of -











                                                             
5524

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Of conviction.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  -- of

         3       conviction?

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right,

         5       fine.  Going back to the Rodriguez case, which

         6       was a rather dramatic one, the young man, 20

         7       year-old Dominican -- native of the Dominican

         8       Republic was arrested for selling drugs.  Now

         9       he's brought into a court of law for an

        10       indictment.  The judge, not having been informed

        11       of his -- or at least the information that the

        12       police had relevant to his immigration status,

        13       let him out on low bail or I think it may have

        14       been his own recognizance.  During the two-week

        15       period following that, he killed a police

        16       officer by the name of Sean McDonald.

        17                      Now, if the court had been aware

        18       -- there are two things here:  Number one, if

        19       the court had been aware that he was an illegal

        20       alien, I doubt if he would have let him out on

        21       bail because obviously that individual was a

        22       prime candidate to skip, but more importantly,

        23       if this law had been in effect, the police would











                                                             
5525

         1       have been required to contact INS and retention

         2       -- detention would have been initiated by INS,

         3       and that individual would not have been out on

         4       the street and today that police officer would

         5       be alive.

         6                      So that's why it's important that

         7       this operative procedure -- that this operative

         8       procedure take place upon arrest.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       if Senator Padavan would continue to yield.

        11                      Senator -

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  -- on the

        14       issue of the tragic and horrible murder of

        15       Officer McDonald, you couldn't be more correct.

        16       Had the judge known that this individual was an

        17       illegal alien, obviously there would be another

        18       procedure and, therefore, what probably would

        19       have occurred is that the individual would have

        20       been detained.  So I accept totally what you're

        21       saying and in that particular case, had that

        22       been the case, perhaps the police officer's life

        23       would have been spared, but what I'm asking you











                                                             
5526

         1       in the process of lawmaking and in drafting this

         2       piece of legislation is that the actual way in

         3       which we investigate illegal aliens, is that

         4       something that you feel should accompany the

         5       fact that somebody has been arrested -- which is

         6       really a suspicion that the state has taken -

         7       that they might have committed a crime?

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, you

         9       are attempting to ask a question that has many,

        10       many hooks in it, and I'm not about to bite any

        11       of them.  The fact of the matter is if someone's

        12       arrested for committing a crime, that stands on

        13       its own.

        14                      The second fact of this

        15       legislation is that if, as the bill clearly

        16       states, there is an indication that this person

        17       is in this country illegally, that INS be

        18       notified.  To me, that's logical.  There's

        19       nothing in it offensive.  It should be done and

        20       is done in many instances already.  We're simply

        21       -- Senator, I don't know if you're listening to

        22       me.  I don't want to interrupt your counsel.

        23       Did you hear what I said?  I know it's hard to











                                                             
5527

         1       listen out of two ears.  This is happening now

         2       in many jurisdictions.  We are attempting to

         3       preclude anything falling into the cracks.  The

         4       individual in the case of Sean McDonald who was

         5       killed was subject to detention by INS but they

         6       weren't notified, so he wasn't detained.

         7                      Now, that's the genesis of this

         8       bill.  It's not very complicated.  Someone's

         9       arrested, they've committed a crime to the

        10       extent of an arrest having been implemented.

        11       That's when this kicks in, not before.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        13       Senator.

        14                      On the point of the specifics of

        15       this particular bill, I think you are -- you've

        16       made a very good point because your bill is

        17       restricting itself to the actions of the police

        18       and your bill is restricting itself to the

        19       arrest, but you do know, Senator, that there are

        20       other pieces of legislation, many of which that

        21       you have sponsored that go beyond that and go

        22       beyond -- go and analyze the duties of other

        23       agencies as individuals attempt to receive











                                                             
5528

         1       assistance from those agencies, particularly in

         2       the area of education.  So all I'm saying to you

         3       is -

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, I

         5       don't know what bill you're particularly talking

         6       about.  We do not restrict in any bill that I'm

         7       sponsoring elementary or secondary education for

         8       anyone, illegal or legal.  So if you're trying

         9       to draw some analogies here, they escape me.  I

        10       would rather that we deal with this bill within

        11       the framework and for the reasons that I have

        12       presented it.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        14       Senator.

        15                      The area of education I was

        16       thinking of was post-secondary education which

        17       is one of the areas of education, if I'm not

        18       correct, but the -- but what relates to this

        19       bill, if we just stay on this particular point

        20       is in trying to make sure that where there would

        21       actually be a conclusion that might be reached,

        22       that there's a probable cause that the use of

        23       the immigration process to detain an individual











                                                             
5529

         1       might be a very salient idea in this particular

         2       case that we aren't legislating the exception

         3       which would have existed in that terrible

         4       tragedy that you documented for us earlier and

         5       that we are not in the situation where everyone

         6       that gets arrested that is presumed by nature of

         7       appearance or some language difficulty to be an

         8       illegal alien is immediately investigated.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  What is your

        10       question, Senator?

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  My question is

        12       do you understand that we run the risk by

        13       passing that -- this piece of legislation of

        14       having that happen in a great number of

        15       situations where we do have -

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'm not quite

        17       sure when you're saying "that happen", what are

        18       you referring to?

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  What that is

        20       is the assumption that an individual, due to

        21       their appearance or some language difficulty or

        22       something that might be common to individuals

        23       who are not born or reared in the United States











                                                             
5530

         1       of America, that they may not be American

         2       citizens because it's very possible that they

         3       are.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  That would be

         5       unreasonable, Senator, and the bill specifically

         6       uses the word "reasonably".  Your -- the picture

         7       you paint in my view is unreasonable,

         8       particularly in the city of New York.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  All right.

        10       That's very good, Senator.  If that's

        11       unreasonable, then would you give me the

        12       criteria by which the individual who is being

        13       arrested would be examined; and that would be my

        14       last question.  I would just like to know what

        15       it is that would set the standard since we're

        16       not taking anything that's not reasonable.  What

        17       is it that defines whether or not there should

        18       be some intervention on the part of the

        19       Immigration and Naturalization Service to

        20       determine whether or not this person is a

        21       citizen?

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, we

        23       could probably debate or discuss by the hour the











                                                             
5531

         1       phrase "reasonable", but even a non-lawyer like

         2       myself is aware of the fact that that phrase,

         3       "reasonable" is found in many, many of our

         4       criminal statutes and "reasonable" is reasonable

         5       by definition.

         6                      Now, is "reasonable" abused?  I'm

         7       sure on occasion it is.  Is "reasonable"

         8       generally followed?  I would say most of the

         9       time it is, but if you read the bill, there are

        10       specific requirements or procedures for a

        11       verification process that could be done very

        12       quickly by the police if they reasonably suspect

        13       the individual is an illegal alien.  So -- and

        14       that's in lines 19 and beneath it.

        15                      So what I'm saying to you,

        16       Senator, I cannot define in every conceivable

        17       configuration or instance of every kind of

        18       arrest that could exist in this state and apply

        19       the word "reasonable" for you by definition, but

        20       I know what reasonable is.  You know what

        21       reasonable is, and I think our law enforcement

        22       agencies -- I don't think.  I know -- they know

        23       what reasonable is and, therefore, I think we











                                                             
5532

         1       have to be guided accordingly.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         3       Paterson.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         5       Senator Padavan.

         6                      Mr. President, on the bill.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         8       Paterson on the bill.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  We do have

        10       federal law that guides us in this particular

        11       area.  We have a court case in 1928, Pyler v.

        12       Doe.  We have another which seems to very much

        13       upset Senator Padavan, but we have a standard

        14       that does exist in terms of these situations.

        15                      It's been raised and brought to

        16       my attention a concern that has been brought

        17       forth by a number of individuals who work in

        18       western New York.  They're farm workers.  They

        19       travel back and forth within that particular

        20       area, and there's a feeling that they have been

        21       arrested a number of times for charges that were

        22       never sustained.  Immediately upon their arrest,

        23       there was some inquiry as to determine whether











                                                             
5533

         1       or not they were citizens, and all I'm trying to

         2       describe is that what Senator Padavan seems to

         3       feel is unreasonable and what may actually be

         4       unreasonable does actually happen at times where

         5       people who are American citizens are harassed

         6       for reasons -- for reasons of their resemblance

         7       to a different national origin, their

         8       familiarity with a language that is foreign to

         9       that of English which is spoken by Americans but

        10       is also spoken by individuals who are citizens

        11       of the United States and that there is a concern

        12       on the part of these individuals that as

        13       American citizens, they be treated with the full

        14       respect and with the full dignity of other

        15       Americans, and that in spite of the fact that

        16       Senator Padavan illustrated to us a horrible

        17       situation in which had there been INS

        18       intervention, there might be a police officer

        19       still serving us and still among his family to

        20       this day.

        21                      What we're saying is that in

        22       legislating to that end, we just want to make

        23       sure that there is not undue harassment of











                                                             
5534

         1       individuals who are citizens and -

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr. President,

         3       would Senator Paterson yield to a question?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         5       Paterson, will you yield to a question?

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Most

         7       certainly, Senator.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator

         9       Padavan.

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'm not

        11       familiar with the specifics of the case you

        12       referred to of immigrant laborers, but I will

        13       ask you this question:  If any local law

        14       enforcement agency had arrested these workers

        15       for reasons other than were valid, would not

        16       that local law enforcement agency be subjected

        17       to action either by the U.S. Attorney or the

        18       state Attorney General?  Let me put it another

        19       way.  Would they, in fact, have been violating

        20       the law themselves?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, in

        22       that particular case -- and I'm very happy that

        23       you would take an interest in it because other











                                                             
5535

         1       than that, you know, your bill, particularly -

         2       the type of situation you're addressing in your

         3       bill is quite valid.  In that particular case,

         4       there would certainly be an unwillingness or a

         5       refusal or certainly an apprehension on the part

         6       of those who had been injured to perhaps come

         7       forward and report these types of situations.

         8       I'm not going to represent to you that this is

         9       the policy of a law enforcement agency anywhere

        10       in the state.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Let me ask you

        12       hypothetically.  Would not their civil rights

        13       have been violated if such a scenario had taken

        14       place?

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  So, in other

        17       words, you are using an illegality to justify

        18       our not acting on something that is reasonable,

        19       and I think that logic fails us, Senator.  We

        20       cannot be guided by the illegal actions of

        21       anyone.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, what

        23       I am trying to demonstrate to you is that there











                                                             
5536

         1       is a danger, and the fact that a situation is

         2       illegal does not mean that we should be

         3       precluded in this chamber from recognizing that

         4       it might exist.  That's why I was just saying a

         5       moment ago that I am not going to tell you that

         6       this is the policy of any law enforcement

         7       organization in the state.

         8                      What I'm saying is that it may

         9       very well be the actions of a few, and it always

        10       is a very few, but under the protections of our

        11       democracy and in writing legislation, I would

        12       think that we would be sensitive to the fact

        13       that there are abuses that do take place and

        14       there are sometimes excessive use of power by

        15       those who are authorized to administer it, and

        16       that this kind of thing perhaps has happened.

        17                      It would be a lot easier if, as

        18       you suggested, the individuals who feel they

        19       have been victimized by it come forward, but as

        20       long as I'm representing to you that it has

        21       happened in some instances, I think that we

        22       would be sensitive to it in our legislation and

        23       wouldn't ignore the fact that it could be











                                                             
5537

         1       happening based on the fact that the individuals

         2       who were afflicted didn't report it.  It may be

         3       an illegality, but the logic in it is that more

         4       than an illegality, it's a danger that we're

         5       opening the door to individuals who don't

         6       deserve to be harassed.

         7                      And since Senator Padavan, by his

         8       silence, implies consent, I guess I'll rest.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Waldon -- Senator Waldon.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Are you asking

        12       me to yield?

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        14       much, Mr. President.  On the bill.

        15                      When I was a young man -- a young

        16       boy, actually, we moved to Brooklyn around 1943,

        17       and not too long after that, I had a job working

        18       in Mr. Levy's delicatessen, and one the

        19       beautiful experiences of running errands for his

        20       grocery store was that I got to know someone who

        21       was a recent immigrant to this country and who

        22       was a very positive and caring human being and

        23       who took a liking to me, and he marveled at what











                                                             
5538

         1       America meant to someone who had escaped from

         2       the boot or the heel of Nazi Germany.

         3                      My second job was with a

         4       gentleman named Percival Jones, and these were

         5       all errand running jobs.  I delivered the tailor

         6       work, cleaning at his cleaning store and

         7       basically made a couple of dollars in tips and

         8       things like that so that my brothers and I could

         9       go to a place called The Comet, which was a

        10       movie theatre on Gates and Reid where you could

        11       see 21 cartoons and a cowboy picture for a

        12       dime.  That's a long time ago, but Mr. Jones had

        13       recently come to this country from Jamaica West

        14       Indies, and he also marveled at what a nice

        15       place this was that someone who had recently

        16       arrived could own his own business, could be an

        17       employer of people, not me, because I wasn't

        18       truly an employee at that time, but could have

        19       an opportunity to become somebody in a land that

        20       was not the place of his origin.

        21                      Some years later in the garment

        22       industry, I worked for a man named George

        23       Nockdigal at an embroidery factory, and I can











                                                             
5539

         1       remember in front of those hot stoves -- I don't

         2       know if anyone knows about embroidery work, but

         3       there's a pattern and the ladies and gentlemen

         4       would sew the pattern through the paper, and

         5       you'd put it into an oven and it would heat up

         6       and the paper would become easily removable by

         7       just rubbing -- rubbing the garments, and I did

         8       that for a whole summer, and the son of George

         9       Nockdigal would tell me about how his father

        10       explained to him what it was on the other side

        11       when things were very, very tough, and to come

        12       to America and then to own a business in the

        13       garment district was a quantum leap from his

        14       past.

        15                      What I'm trying to say with all

        16       of this is that there was a time when this

        17       nation opened its arms to everybody despite

        18       color, despite place of origin, despite language

        19       and said, Come here.  We have a place for you,

        20       and not that this bill specifically addresses

        21       the concern that I raised with my remarks, but I

        22       believe it is part and parcel of a philosophy

        23       that I find troublesome, worrisome and











                                                             
5540

         1       meddlesome, and so I encourage you to do what

         2       you have to do on this bill, but to recognize

         3       that a restrictive exclusionary philosophy, in

         4       my opinion, is un-American.

         5                      Thank you very much, Mr.

         6       President, my colleagues.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         8       last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -- those

        15       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 885

        16       are Senators Connor, Espada, Markowitz,

        17       Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago, Smith and

        18       Waldon.  Ayes 49, nays 8.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       933, by Senator Present, Senate Print 6854, an

        23       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in











                                                             
5541

         1       relation to economic development zones.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         3       Smith.

         4                      SENATOR SMITH:  Would the sponsor

         5       be kind enough to give us an explanation of this

         6       bill?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         8       Present, will you yield for an explanation?

         9                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Sure.  Senator

        10       Smith, under -- under existing law, if a

        11       business wants to move into an economic

        12       development zone, the municipality that houses

        13       that business must hold a public hearing, post

        14       it, take the testimony and go through the

        15       procedures of a public hearing which is

        16       expensive for the village and troublesome to the

        17       business.  All this bill does is delete the

        18       public hearing portion.

        19                      SENATOR SMITH:  Thank you.

        20                      I've spoken to some people who

        21       sit on town boards and come from small towns and

        22       villages, and it's my understanding that the

        23       cost of placing an ad in the newspaper would be











                                                             
5542

         1       approximately 10 to $15 in most of these local

         2       areas.  Would that be accurate?

         3                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I don't know.

         4       I haven't placed a public notice in a long time.

         5                      SENATOR SMITH:  Well, this is

         6       according to some of the people that sit on the

         7       boards in these areas, and the only concern that

         8       I have -- on the bill, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Smith, on the bill.

        11                      SENATOR SMITH:  -- is that we're

        12       willing to give up a public benefit and the

        13       rights of people to have a say in what takes

        14       place for 10 to $15, and I think that's too much

        15       to pay.  I believe that people should have a

        16       right to have public comment, especially on

        17       something as important as moving companies from

        18       one place to another, especially when it has

        19       been proven that most of these companies are not

        20       hiring new people but just moving jobs from one

        21       place to another into an EDZ.

        22                      Thank you.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the











                                                             
5543

         1       last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays 1,

         8       Senator Smith recorded in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       963, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number

        13       7097, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in

        14       relation to the holding of meetings.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        16       last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill











                                                             
5544

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       983, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7338, an

         4       act to amend Chapter 3 of the Laws of 1993.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         6       last section.

         7                      Senator Wright, explanation is

         8       being asked for.

         9                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      The bill before the Senate this

        12       afternoon extends the provisions that we enacted

        13       in 1993 to comply with what's referred to as the

        14       Solomon amendment in conformance of state

        15       statute with federal statute extending mandatory

        16       suspension of drivers' licenses upon conviction

        17       of certain drug-related offenses.

        18                      Annually for the past several

        19       years we have extended this provision and

        20       enacted it in state statute to ensure compliance

        21       with the federal statutes and to secure receipt

        22       of federal assistance, this year to the tune of

        23       42 million -- excuse me, $43 million in federal











                                                             
5545

         1       highway aid linked to the state's conformance

         2       with the federal requirements.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         4       Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      If Senator Wright would yield for

         8       a question.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        10       Wright, would you yield?

        11                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes I would, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        14       Senator Wright, do you know how much it would

        15       cost to implement this procedure that we have

        16       before us?

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  No, Senator, I

        18       do not know the cost of implementation because

        19       it is, in fact, implemented now.  We have had

        20       this statute on the books since 1993, so the

        21       cost of implementation at the time I'm not aware

        22       of, but it is in effect, in place now.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.











                                                             
5546

         1       President.

         2                      The reason I'm asking the

         3       question is that I wondered if it would not be

         4       prudent for us to find out how much it costs if

         5       we're going to be extending this legislation in

         6       light of the fact that 31 states have opted out

         7       of it, and we have the option of passing

         8       resolutions in the Senate and the Assembly and

         9       having it signed by the Governor.

        10                      Now, this is a remedy that we

        11       would have if we don't want to lose the money in

        12       federal highway assistance from the government.

        13       The reason that I would think that we might do

        14       this is because, as I see it, there is no nexus

        15       between the actual crime and the punishment in

        16       this case which is withdrawing someone's

        17       license.

        18                      Certainly, the crime is serious

        19       and the punishment has been serious as it's

        20       prescribed under the criminal law.  What I'm

        21       saying is that it's very hard to vote against

        22       this piece of legislation because inevitably

        23       there can be made the relationship between an











                                                             
5547

         1       individual under the use of some substance

         2       driving an automobile and injuring an innocent

         3       party, and certainly the thought of that is very

         4       frightening and any way that we would want to

         5       thwart that, we should undertake.

         6                      The question is whether or not

         7       this legislation is somewhat speculative and

         8       remote to the actual process.  Where is the

         9       offense related to the operation of a motor

        10       vehicle where a person who perhaps as a younger

        11       person makes a mistake early in their life,

        12       they've paid their debt to society, they've

        13       sought counseling for their substance abuse

        14       problem, they now would be unable to operate a

        15       motor vehicle because of this conviction in the

        16       past.

        17                      At the same time, they might

        18       become one of many who abuses alcohol and can

        19       drive a car, as people do all the time; and so

        20       the point is not that the spirit of the

        21       legislation is in any way flawed, but that the

        22       actual law that we would be passing bears no

        23       relationship, as I see it, to the crime that the











                                                             
5548

         1       individual has committed.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         3       last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        10       the negative on Calendar Number 983 are Senators

        11       Connor, Mendez, Paterson and Smith.  Excuse me.

        12       Those recorded in the negative on Calendar 983

        13       are Senators Connor, Paterson and Smith.  Ayes

        14       54, nays 3.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      Senator Mendez.

        18                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        19       was out of the chambers when two roll calls were

        20       taken, and I want the record to reflect that if

        21       I would have been here, I would have voted "no"

        22       on 314 and "no" on Calendar Number 885.

        23                      Thank you.











                                                             
5549

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Without

         2       objection.

         3                      Senator Mendez, without

         4       objection, the record will indicate if you had

         5       been in the chamber you would have been recorded

         6       in the negative on Calendar Number 314, and also

         7       the record will indicate, without objection,

         8       your opposition to 885.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Thank you.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        11       Secretary will continue the calendar.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1096, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4420-C, an

        14       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        15       parole for certain sex offenders.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        17       last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        20       November.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.











                                                             
5550

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1100, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         5       Print 5494-A, an act to amend the Criminal

         6       Procedure Law and the Public Authorities Law.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         9       Leichter.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President, on the bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        13       Leichter, on the bill.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  This

        15       relates to the Javits Convention Center which is

        16       in my district.

        17                      I think, as we all know from

        18       newspaper reports, and the Senate actually had a

        19       hearing on the Center, there have been some

        20       serious problems at the Center in its

        21       management.  There have been allegations that

        22       there was mob influence.  There certainly seems

        23       to be no question that the costs for an











                                                             
5551

         1       exhibition at the Convention Center seem to be

         2       unreasonably high.

         3                      The Governor seems to have taken

         4       some steps that maybe has made that Convention

         5       Center more competitive.  Actually, I had a lot

         6       of questions and doubts, both as to the person

         7       that he appointed and as to this way of

         8       proceeding.  I felt that the best way would have

         9       been really to try to hire a private firm to

        10       operate the Convention Center.

        11                      Well, I really haven't had any

        12       special knowledge on it, but based on first

        13       reports, other reports, there seem to be some

        14       improvements in the Convention Center.  The

        15       Governor has now asked for a licensing or asked

        16       us to approve a licensing system whereby the

        17       Convention Center could license contractors,

        18       employees, and so on, obviously with a viewpoint

        19       of keeping out anybody with mob connections or

        20       an unsavory background.

        21                      I've no problem with that in

        22       principle, and I'm going to vote for this bill,

        23       but I just want to point out there's some











                                                             
5552

         1       awfully broad powers that are given here to the

         2       Convention Center which I think could be worri

         3       some or could be used in a manner to break labor

         4       unions, to really give the management or the

         5       employer, if you will, such extreme powers, and

         6       I just want to point out to you some of the

         7       language that I think could be somewhat

         8       troublesome.

         9                      In Section 5, "the corporation

        10       board may refuse to issue or renew or may

        11       suspend or revoke a license," and it goes on to

        12       say if it finds out that the applicant or the

        13       licensee that is participating in activities at

        14       the Convention Center would be "inconsistent

        15       with the public interest or the best interests

        16       of the corporation".

        17                      That's awfully broad.  It means

        18       really that they can deny a license to anybody

        19       for any reason that they want to or they could

        20       revoke a license for anybody.  Maybe somebody's

        21       organized and maybe somebody has a fight with a

        22       shop steward.  His license can be revoked and,

        23       while there's a provision for due process











                                                             
5553

         1       hearings, since this is a standard it's an

         2       awfully broad standard.

         3                      And it goes on -- then in another

         4       instance, it says the -- in the due process

         5       hearing, "the corporation board shall not be

         6       bound by the rules of evidence."  Here again, I

         7       think that's an unwise grant.  I think all of us

         8       certainly want to root out organized crime

         9       wherever it is or any criminal activity, and we

        10       certainly don't want it to impede economic

        11       development activities such as the Convention

        12       Center, and I think as I stated before that some

        13       additional powers given to the corporation that

        14       runs the Javits Center, a public benefit

        15       corporation, is appropriate, but I think this

        16       goes really beyond, I think, the powers that are

        17       legitimate and reasonably given.

        18                      I'm going to vote for it because

        19       I don't want anybody to say that I did anything

        20       that impeded the fight against organized crime

        21       and I think all of us certainly want to see that

        22       any criminal activity is rooted out, but I just

        23       say that this is really part of the trend that











                                                             
5554

         1       we've seen, particularly in this session where

         2       bills that deal with issues that may be really

         3       quite legitimate are written so broadly and give

         4       such vast powers to law enforcement agencies or

         5       to the government, that they really impinge on

         6       individual liberties, and it always surprises me

         7       that it comes from people in a party that says,

         8       We want to assert and we want to protect the

         9       rights of the individual.  We don't want

        10       government to take over.  Then you write these

        11       bills that give all of these super-powers to

        12       governmental agencies, in this instance the

        13       Javits Convention Center.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

        15       last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        23       is passed.











                                                             
5555

         1                      Senator Marcellino.

         2                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yeah, Mr.

         3       President.  May we please take up Calendar

         4       Number 1222, Senate 7578, which has just been

         5       reported from the Finance Committee.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         7       Secretary will read Calendar 1222.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1222, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        10       Print 7578, an act making appropriations for the

        11       support of government.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Is there a

        13       message of necessity and appropriation at the

        14       desk?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Yes,

        16       there is.

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I move to

        18       accept the messages of necessity and

        19       appropriation.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  All

        21       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye.")

        23                      Opposed nay.











                                                             
5556

         1                      The messages are accepted.

         2                      Senator Marcellino.

         3                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Please read

         4       the last section.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Read the

         6       last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays

        13       one, Senator -

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The

        17       negatives please raise their hands, Calendar

        18       Number 1222, Senate 7578.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1222 are Senat

        21       ors Alesi, DiCarlo, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Libous,

        22       Nozzolio and Oppenheimer.  Ayes 50, nays 7.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill











                                                             
5557

         1       is passed.

         2                      Senator Marcellino.

         3                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

         4       President.  May we please take up Calendar

         5       Number 1223, Senate Number 7579.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         7       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1223.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1223, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        10       Print 7579, an act making appropriations for the

        11       support of government and to amend Chapter 63 of

        12       the Laws of 1996.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        14       Marcellino.

        15                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        16       President, are there any messages of necessity

        17       and appropriation at the desk?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  There's

        19       a message at the desk.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I move to

        21       accept the messages of necessity and

        22       appropriation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  All











                                                             
5558

         1       those in favor signify by saying aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Opposed nay.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      The messages are accepted.  Read

         6       the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 12.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Mr. President -

        16                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Could we -

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        18       Hoffmann.

        19                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Yes, since we

        20       just had bills reported directly to the floor

        21       for votes, I'd like to just clarify for several

        22       of my colleagues, if I could please, the two

        23       bills that were just passed, the "no" votes that











                                                             
5559

         1       you recorded, the vote on the pay bill for the

         2       Governor and the Legislature, what is the number

         3       on that bill, and do you have "no" votes

         4       recorded for that one?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         6       Marcellino.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  If the desk

         8       could provide that answer to Senator Hoffmann,

         9       we'd appreciate it.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

        11       Hoffmann, Senate 7578, Calendar 1222.

        12                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  7578, you have

        13       "no" votes recorded on that bill which provides

        14       $646,000 for salaries and Social Security

        15       payments for the Governor, Lieutenant Governor,

        16       Comptroller, Attorney General and members of the

        17       Legislature for the May 29 payroll?

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  That's

        19       correct.

        20                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  That is

        21       correct, and I along with several of my

        22       colleagues are reported -- in the upstate

        23       conservative caucus are recorded in the negative











                                                             
5560

         1       on that calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  You are

         3       recorded in the negative.

         4                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President, for that clarification.

         6                      Senator Marcellino.  Senator

         7       Wright?

         8                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I request to be

         9       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1222 and

        10       Senate 7578.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Without

        12       objection, you will be recorded in the

        13       negative.

        14                      Senator Marcellino.

        15                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        16       President, there will be -- I am so pleased to

        17       find out that we have an upstate conservative

        18       caucus in this chamber, and Senator DiCarlo has

        19       joined it.

        20                      Are there any -- is there any

        21       housekeeping at the desk, sir?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Yes,

        23       there is.











                                                             
5561

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Can we take

         2       that up now, please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Senator

         4       Farley.

         5                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      On page 29 I offer the following

         8       amendments to Calendar Number 817, Senate Print

         9       5792, and I ask that that bill retain its place

        10       on the Third Reading Calendar.  That's on behalf

        11       of Senator Norman Levy.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        13       Amendments are received.

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        15       Senator Maltese, on page 32, I offer the

        16       following amendments to Calendar 854, Senate

        17       Print 4723, and I ask that that bill retain its

        18       place.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        20       Amendments received.

        21                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

        22       myself, wait a second -- on behalf of himself, I

        23       wish to star these three bills: Sponsor star,











                                                             
5562

         1       Calendar 1190, Senate Print 6265; Calendar

         2       Number 1192, Senate Print 7271; Calendar 991,

         3       Senate Print 7374.

         4                      On behalf of Senator Levy, Mr.

         5       President, I wish to call up his bill, Print

         6       Number 331, which was recalled from the Assembly

         7       which is now at the desk.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         9       Secretary will read.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       41, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 331, an act to

        12       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now move to

        14       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        15       passed.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        17       roll on reconsideration.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        19       reconsideration. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        21                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President, I

        22       now offer the following amendments.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:











                                                             
5563

         1       Amendments received.

         2                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

         3       Senator Padavan, Mr. President, I wish to call

         4       up his bill, Senate Print 4216-A.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         6       Secretary will read.

         7                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Which is

         8       recalled from the Assembly.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       691, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number

        13       4216-A, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

        14       relation to auto stripping.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President, I

        16       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        17       bill passed.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Call the

        19       roll on reconsideration.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        21       reconsideration. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now offer the











                                                             
5564

         1       following amendments.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:

         3       Amendments are received.

         4                      Any other housekeeping?

         5                      (There was no response. )

         6                      Senator Marcellino.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         8       President, there being no further business, I

         9       move we adjourn until Wednesday, May 22nd, at

        10       11:00 a.m. sharp.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO:  Motion

        12       of Senator Marcellino, the Senate will stand

        13       adjourned until Wednesday, May 22nd.

        14                      (Whereupon at 4:45 p.m., the

        15       Senate adjourned. )

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23