Regular Session - June 4, 1996
6372
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 4, 1996
10 10:05 a.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN A. DeFRANCISCO, Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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6373
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 The Senate will come to order. Would you please
4 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
5 Allegiance.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 The invocation today will be
9 given by Reverend Pat Bumgardner from the
10 Metropolitan Community Church of New York City
11 from the 30th Senatorial District.
12 REVEREND PAT BUMGARDNER: Let us
13 pray.
14 O God, we come before You this
15 morning, Your servants, called out to act justly
16 and love tenderly and walk humbly in Your
17 presence, and we seek in this moment the
18 blessing of Your holy spirit, that the words we
19 utter today and the decisions we make might
20 truly honor our call.
21 Give us all the courage in these
22 times of growing homophobia and racism and
23 intolerance for differing religious traditions
6374
1 and practices and beliefs to stand true to Your
2 vision of just and equal accord and protection
3 and care for all Your children.
4 Give us the courage and
5 conviction necessary to be bold in speaking and
6 acting, to legislatively protect and care for
7 all people, all domestic relationships, all
8 children, all families, including those of our
9 lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender
10 constituents. Give us courage always to speak
11 against violence and act for just and right
12 relationships among all groups.
13 We make this prayer this morning
14 trusting in Your power alone and in the name of
15 all that is good and holy. Amen.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
17 Reading of the Journal.
18 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
19 Monday, June 3rd. The Senate met pursuant to
20 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon
21 designation of the Temporary President. The
22 Journal of Sunday, June 2nd, was read and
23 approved. On motion, the Senate adjourned.
6375
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
2 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
3 as read.
4 Presentation of petitions.
5 Messages from the Assembly.
6 Messages from the Governor.
7 Reports of standing committees.
8 Reports of select committees.
9 Communications and reports from
10 state officers.
11 Motions and resolutions.
12 Senator Tully.
13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
14 President. On behalf of Senator Lack, I wish to
15 call up his bill, Print Number 6301, recalled
16 from the Assembly which is now at the desk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
18 The Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 570, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6301, an act
21 in relation to granting the Department of
22 Transportation.
23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I
6376
1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
2 bill was passed.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
4 Call the roll on reconsideration.
5 (The Secretary called the roll on
6 reconsideration.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33.
8 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I
9 now offer the following amendments.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
11 The amendments are received.
12 Senator Tully.
13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
14 President. On behalf of Senator Stafford, on
15 page 43, I offer the following amendments to
16 Calendar Number 1148, Senate Print Number 5549
17 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
18 Third Reading Calendar.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
20 The amendments are received.
21 Senator Wright.
22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
23 on behalf of Senator Hoblock, please place a
6377
1 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 887.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
3 The sponsor's star is so placed.
4 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of
5 Senator Maziarz, please remove the sponsor's
6 star from Calendar Number 833.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
8 The sponsor's star is so removed.
9 SENATOR WRIGHT: And on behalf of
10 Senator Libous, please remove the sponsor's
11 stars from Calendar Numbers 191, 336, 348, 364,
12 714 and 757.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
14 The sponsor's stars on those calendar numbers
15 are removed.
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Senator Libous
17 thanks you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
19 And I'm appreciative of all of his work.
20 Senator Bruno.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
22 believe that there is a privileged resolution at
23 the desk by Senator DeFrancisco. I would ask
6378
1 that the title be read and that we move for its
2 immediate adoption.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
4 The Secretary will -- the Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
6 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution honoring
7 Vera House, Incorporated of Syracuse, New York,
8 an agency that works to end domestic violence on
9 the occasion of the kick-off of its White Ribbon
10 campaign which will run June 8 through 16,
11 1996.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Senator DeFrancisco.
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. I'd
15 like to speak briefly on the resolution.
16 The reason why I'm wearing the
17 white ribbon is that an organization that seeks
18 to prevent and assist women who have been
19 victims of domestic violence, the Vera House in
20 Syracuse, started a White Ribbon campaign and
21 that White Ribbon campaign is a campaign where
22 generally men but also women wear white ribbons
23 in order to emphasize the importance of
6379
1 eradicating this sickness in our community known
2 as domestic violence.
3 This White Ribbon campaign
4 actually started in Canada in 1990, when a male
5 college student killed 14 women, and it was an
6 outrage in that community, and the men began
7 wearing white ribbons to protest that activity
8 and to bring awareness to the rest of the
9 community about the importance of eradicating
10 domestic violence.
11 I have provided a white ribbon
12 for each of the Senators, and the period of time
13 when these white ribbons will be worn in central
14 New York and hopefully now throughout the state
15 is June 8th through June 16th, and I would
16 appreciate all of you participating in this very
17 worthwhile cause.
18 Thank you.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Thank
20 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
21 The question is on the
22 resolution. All those in favor signify by
23 saying aye.
6380
1 (Response of "Aye".)
2 Opposed, nay.
3 (There was no response.)
4 The resolution is adopted.
5 Senator Paterson, did you have
6 comments, sir?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just
8 wanted to congratulate Senator DeFrancisco for
9 working on this subject of domestic violence
10 which more and more we're finding is entrenched
11 in our society, an incident that occurs every 15
12 seconds that affects three to four million women
13 a year. Ten deaths of women a day contribute to
14 domestic violence, and the staggering statistic
15 that we who in New York City learn, that 20 to
16 25 percent of all public hospital emergency room
17 treatments are interventions related to domestic
18 violence.
19 There was a statement recently
20 that welfare causes domestic violence. It
21 really is quite the opposite. The fact is that
22 the women who are injured, 20 percent of them
23 lose their jobs. 3- to $5 billion a year are
6381
1 estimated in labor costs related to domestic
2 violence, and the fact is that unfortunately
3 many of those women lose their jobs and lose
4 their careers and opportunities because of this
5 menace that will really envelop all of our
6 society because children are affected. Children
7 who have witnessed domestic violence are more
8 susceptible to becoming part of those actions
9 themselves and also the accompanying vices of
10 substance abuse, violent crime, juvenile
11 delinquency and suicide.
12 So this is an important week, and
13 I'm very happy that Senator DeFrancisco has
14 involved all of us, and we probably need to be
15 looking into this issue in our own districts in
16 our own ways, but hopefully to bring the
17 statistics down and to improve the quality of
18 life for men and women who live in our society.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Thank
20 you, Senator Paterson and thank you, Senator
21 DeFrancisco.
22 The resolution is adopted.
23 Senator Bruno, are you ready for
6382
1 the calendar?
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
3 believe there is a privileged resolution at the
4 desk by Senator Connor. I would ask that the
5 title be read and that we move for its immediate
6 adoption.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
8 Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
10 Connor, Legislative Resolution commemorating the
11 Inaugural National Puerto Rican Day Parade to be
12 held in New York City on June 9, 1996.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
14 question is on the resolution. All in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response.)
19 The resolution is adopted.
20 Senator Bruno.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
22 can we at this time take up the non
23 controversial calendar.
6383
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
2 Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
4 Calendar Number 306, by Senator Tully, Senate
5 Print 4578-B, an act to amend the Vehicle and
6 Traffic Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 331, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4588, an
15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
16 issuance of licenses.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
18 please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it
20 aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 347, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 653-A, an
23 act to amend the Public Health Law.
6384
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
2 please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 380, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2784-A, an
7 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
8 relation to eligibility.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 496, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 2978-A, an
21 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
22 allowing a child.
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay it aside.
6385
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
2 the bill aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 538, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5766-C, an
5 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle
6 and Traffic Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 1,
15 Senator Wright recorded in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 609, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 447-A, an
20 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
21 creating the crime of placing a false bomb.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
23 the last section.
6386
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the first day of
3 November.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 626, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 391, an act
12 to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to
13 establishing a task force.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
23 bill is passed.
6387
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 744, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1386, an act
3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
6 the bill aside.
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
8 would you star that bill at the request of the
9 sponsor.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
11 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 758, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 7193-A, an
14 act to amend the General Business Law, in
15 relation to the disclosure of motor vehicle
16 registration costs.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6388
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 825, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3458-A, an
6 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation
7 to the application of Article IX of such law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 843, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7310, an act
20 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
21 relation to restricting the weights of certain
22 vehicles.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
6389
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 874, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2529 -
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
13 please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
15 the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 882, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2790, an
18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
19 population requirements.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6390
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 888, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6055-A -
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
12 the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 922, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7237, an
15 act to repeal Paragraph C of Subdivision (2).
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
6391
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 945, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7368-A, an
5 act to amend the Village Law, in relation to
6 propositions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 971, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6714, an
19 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation
20 to designation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6392
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 982, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7320, an
10 act to amend the Education Law and the Mental
11 Hygiene Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
15 act shall take effect September 1.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 990, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6769-A, an
6393
1 act to amend Chapter 812 of the Laws of 1987.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1009, by Senator Maziarz -
14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay it aside
15 for the day, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
17 the bill aside for the day.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1022, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
20 Assembly Print 10508, an act legalizing,
21 certifying and confirming the acts of St.
22 Johnsville.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
6394
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
9 the bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1069, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7432 -
12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay the bill
13 aside for the day.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
15 the bill aside for the day.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an
18 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in
19 relation to deleting the value limitation.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay the bill
21 aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
23 the bill aside.
6395
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1090, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1396-B, an
3 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
4 authorizing counties.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
6 the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
8 act shall take effect on the first day of
9 November.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1121, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 6309-A,
18 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and
19 the Family Court Act.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6396
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1125, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 329, an act
9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
10 relation to pedestrians' right of way in
11 crosswalks.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay the bill
13 aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
15 the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1127, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 339-A, an
18 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation
19 to expanding the definition.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect September 1.
6397
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. On
8 Calendar 1127, ayes 43, nays 1, Senator Wright
9 recorded in the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1139, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3534, an act
14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
15 relation to authorizing.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
6398
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1142, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4050-B, an
5 act to amend -- an act to amend the Highway Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
15 bill is passed.
16 Senator Farley.
17 SENATOR FARLEY: I would like to
18 be recorded in the negative on 1127.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
20 Without objection, Senator Farley will be
21 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
22 1127.
23 The Secretary will read.
6399
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1143, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4118-A, an
3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1145, Senator Farley, Senate Print 4542, an act
16 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
17 relation to authorizing.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
23 the roll.
6400
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1150, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5838-B,
7 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
8 relation to restricting.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1154, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6497, an
21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
22 relation to reports.
23 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay the bill
6401
1 aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
3 the bill aside for the day.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1156, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 6743, an act
6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
7 relation to the imposition of fines.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the first day of
12 November.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1,
17 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1157, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6817-A, an
22 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
23 relation to providing for a distinctive "Foreign
6402
1 Organization" license plate.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1,
10 Senator Tully recorded in the negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1158, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6844, an act
15 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
16 to authorizing and requiring.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6403
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
3 Senator Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
5 President, may I have unanimous consent to be
6 recorded in the negative on Number 1157 as
7 well?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
9 Without objection, Senator Dollinger to be
10 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1157.
11 Senator Gold, did you want to be
12 recorded on that as well?
13 SENATOR GOLD: No, no. I was
14 just helping.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Oh,
16 all right.
17 The Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1159, Senator Levy, Senate Print 6875, an act to
20 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the Public
21 Authorities Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
23 the last section.
6404
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
2 act shall take effect in 30 days.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1160, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 6905, an act
11 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
12 relation to the seizure of license plates.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect on the first day of
17 November.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
23 bill is passed.
6405
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1172, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7025, an
3 act to amend Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1983.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1179, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4431-A, an
16 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
17 relation to the general powers.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
23 the roll.
6406
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1185, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6617, an
7 act to amend the Business Corporation Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1189, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7133,
20 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
21 relation to exempting information.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
6407
1 the bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1191, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6457, an
4 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to the
5 sale of joint credit.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1197, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3085, an
18 act to repeal Subdivision 9 of Section 14-114 of
19 the Election Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6408
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1204, by Member of the Assembly McEneny,
9 Assembly Print 4695, an act to amend the
10 Election Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an
23 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
6409
1 in relation to the siting.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section -
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
7 the bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1229, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 935-A, an
10 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to
11 liability.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Read -
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
16 the bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1230, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 1633, an
19 act authorizing the city of Albany.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: A home
21 rule message is at the desk. Read the last
22 section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6410
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1231, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1999, an
10 act to amend the General City Law, in relation
11 to excluding the city of Auburn.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
18 the bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1232, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4254-A, an
21 act to authorize the town of Cornwall.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: A home
23 rule message is at the desk. Read the last
6411
1 section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1234, by Member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly
12 Print 8464, an act in relation to discontinuing
13 the Spring Valley Toll Plaza.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
16 the bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1236, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6503-A, an
19 act to authorize the town of Blooming Grove,
20 Orange County.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
22 home rule message is at the desk. Read the last
23 section.
6412
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1237, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6762-A, an
11 act in relation to legalizing and validating the
12 adoption of a bond resolution.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
18 the roll. The home rule message is at the desk.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6413
1 1238, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6959-A,
2 an act authorizing the commissioner of General
3 Services.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section -
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
8 the negative, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay
10 the bill aside.
11 Senator Bruno.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the
13 affirmative.
14 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
15 I believe on that vote, that bill requires a
16 three-quarters majority since -- two-thirds -
17 I'm sorry -- two-thirds majority. Since we've
18 now obtained the necessary votes on the other
19 side of the aisle, I move to put the bill on the
20 table -- lay the bill on the table.
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President
22 -- can we lay that bill aside, Mr. President?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
6414
1 Senator Velella, I have been informed by the
2 desk that this bill does not require a
3 two-thirds vote, so we can record the party
4 vote.
5 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: We're
8 going to confirm that, so we're going to lay the
9 bill aside temporarily.
10 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Senator Leichter.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have
15 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
16 on Calendar 1157, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
18 Without objection, Senator Leichter will be
19 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1157.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
21 Senator Bruno.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
23 can we at this time return to motions and
6415
1 resolutions, and I would move the adoption of
2 the Resolution Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
4 Secretary will read -- oh. All in favor of
5 adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by
6 saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye".)
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 The Resolution Calendar is
11 adopted.
12 Senator Bruno -- Senator Gold,
13 why do you rise?
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. May I
15 please have unanimous consent to be recorded in
16 the negative on 1157.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
18 Without objection, Senator Gold will be recorded
19 in the negative on Calendar 1157.
20 Senator Bruno.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
22 can we at this time take up the controversial
23 calendar.
6416
1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
2 Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
4 Calendar Number 306, by Senator Tully, Senate
5 Print 4578-B, an act to amend the Vehicle and
6 Traffic Law.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
9 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Tully.
10 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 This is an agreed upon bill
13 sponsored by -- in the Assembly by Assemblyman
14 David Gantt and, Mr. President, it is a true
15 bipartisan bill in the spirit of the comments of
16 my college, Senator Marcellino, yesterday when
17 he was speaking of the breast cancer pesticide
18 bill and referred to the Declaration of
19 Independence and the Bill of Rights as being
20 documents that were framed in the spirit of
21 bipartisanship as this bill is, Mr. President,
22 because it was before this house earlier in the
23 year, and it passed by the vote of 54 to 6 with
6417
1 several members of the Minority objecting to
2 certain portions of the bill.
3 Now, as has often happened in
4 this house, some of the comments from members
5 are very lucid and they help to better a bill.
6 They help to temper it in the true spirit of
7 having a stronger piece of legislation.
8 On that particular occasion,
9 recommendations were made by Senator Paterson
10 with respect to authorizing conditional licenses
11 for work, school and medical reasons, and that
12 was included in this amended version.
13 Recommendations were made by
14 Senator Abate with respect to authorizing the
15 cleanup of graffiti via community service, and
16 that was included in this amended bill, and also
17 Senator Onorato who voted for the bill but made
18 a recommendation regarding the removal of
19 driving privileges regardless of age were
20 included and incorporated into this amended
21 version. So we have a truly bipartisan bill,
22 and I appreciate the comments of my colleagues.
23 This bill does prohibit the
6418
1 issuance of a driver's license to certain minors
2 and young adults for one year from the time at
3 which they are convicted of making graffiti
4 which currently, Mr. President, is a misdemeanor
5 but very few people are ever given that
6 punishment of up to a year in jail. This, we
7 think, would help to prevent this scourge on our
8 society.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
10 Senator Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 On the -- on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: On the
15 bill.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: I certainly,
17 along with the other members of the Major... the
18 Minority who -- must have been a Freudian slip,
19 Mr. President -- would like to thank Senator
20 Tully for re-examining this bill and for
21 negotiating it, and since I was the one who
22 raised the objection to certain types of
23 negotiations, I was trying to point out
6419
1 yesterday that there is a difference between
2 compromise in the sense of legislation and
3 apportionment and distribution of resources and
4 then the compromise of principles, and I did not
5 think or would I ever be in favor of those who
6 even with whom I disagree to actually compromise
7 their values with a gun to their head just to
8 pass certain types of legislation.
9 Now, in this case, this is an
10 area where compromise is quite valid. However,
11 still there are a few of us that feel that the
12 punishment doesn't really relate to the crime,
13 that actually the individuals would be better
14 enhanced in their punitive service, in some kind
15 of public variety of service or some area that
16 they can give back to the community or perhaps
17 spend time cleaning graffiti off the walls of
18 the subways, of the areas that they actually
19 inflicted this damage.
20 We don't feel that -- relating it
21 to a driver's license, which many of the
22 individuals who would commit the crimes don't
23 have a driver's license, setting up almost a
6420
1 situation where you are at greater risk if you
2 have a driver's license when you commit this
3 crime. We don't feel that it would be
4 reasonable that the individual who would be
5 committing the crime of defacing or defiling
6 property in the form of graffiti would at the
7 time of the offense even be aware that they
8 would perhaps lose their driver's license.
9 Now, although knowledge is not a
10 prerequisite to any kind of -- although the
11 knowledge of what -- the full effects is
12 certainly no excuse for defacing property, at
13 the same time, it is remote to the actual crime
14 that the individual be penalized in this
15 particular way. If anything, just a straight
16 sentence or fine or some kind of community
17 service or an act of having to clean greater
18 than the -- than the damage that was actually
19 caused, we feel would be a better solution, but
20 we are quite pleased that a number of our
21 colleagues were willing to take some of the
22 discussion that occurred earlier in the session
23 pertaining to this legislation and used it in
6421
1 reassessing what the public policy of the bill
2 is and actually using some of that information
3 in redrafting the bill.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect on the first day of
8 November.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 2,
13 Senators Connor and Paterson recorded in the
14 negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
16 bill is passed.
17 Senator Lachman, did you want to
18 explain your vote on that bill?
19 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: I
21 apologize. I didn't see you before.
22 SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you, Mr.
23 Chairman.
6422
1 I was one of the six in the
2 Minority that voted against the bill initially,
3 and I wanted to echo the remarks of Senator
4 Paterson. In the spirit of compromise and
5 conciliation, my colleagues have changed the
6 bill and not completely to the extent that I
7 want but sufficiently for me to vote in the
8 "A".
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
11 bill is passed.
12 The Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 331, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4588, an
15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
16 issuance of licenses.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
18 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
20 Senator Volker.
21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
22 this is a bill that's passed this house -- in
23 fact, it passed the house last year by a vote, I
6423
1 believe of 37 to 21, and it's passed this house
2 on several occasions -- that would change the
3 system of pistol licensing in this state to make
4 licensed handguns available to persons who have
5 a clean, moral, criminal and mental record.
6 It's called a proper cause bill because, in
7 effect, what it does is to reverse the process
8 now which many people believe has not truly
9 worked, and that is it would create the
10 presumption that a person has a clean, moral and
11 criminal record and, obviously, we would still
12 have fingerprinting and things of that nature to
13 make sure that that is correct, and once that is
14 shown to be correct, then the person is entitled
15 to a license barring some other problem that
16 comes up as to the character of the person, and
17 that is the bill.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: And that is a
19 fine explanation, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
21 Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: On the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
6424
1 Senator Paterson, on the bill.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: The change in
3 this legislation, according to a memo that we
4 received from New York City, would triple the
5 number of handguns in New York City.
6 In the last year, the murder rate
7 has gone down 25 percent, and the mayor is
8 really interested in keeping as many guns off
9 the street as possible. We do not want to have
10 anyone infer from this discussion that the
11 proliferation of these licensed weapons would in
12 any way increase the crime rate. However, New
13 York City feels that it has a right to govern in
14 the area of licensing within its jurisdiction
15 and we heartily agree.
16 There is certainly the
17 understanding that might be reached that could
18 change people's minds that the actual
19 legislation, if passed, would take a lot of
20 licenses and grandfather them in, which are
21 right now just ownership licenses and are really
22 just licenses for commercial use. What we would
23 then have is no challenge to these licenses.
6425
1 They would immediately convert to carry licenses
2 without any investigation.
3 This bill creates a rebuttable
4 presumption that there is good moral character
5 on the part of an individual who applies for the
6 license that would have to be proved to the
7 contrary, but in order to discredit the
8 individual, we would get no opportunity to
9 challenge any of those licenses that would
10 already have been grandfathered in.
11 So we still feel that, although
12 this is a bill that would affect the state
13 entirely, that individual localities would
14 probably be more apt and probably be more
15 appropriate to determine where the license would
16 come from and what the threshold would be in
17 order to gain a license.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
19 Senator Dollinger.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
21 President, I voted against this bill before, and
22 I intend to vote against it again today because
23 it affects the concealment of a weapon provision
6426
1 under state law, as least as I read it, and the
2 sponsor can perhaps correct me if I'm wrong, but
3 what this allows is -- we currently have a
4 provision that says if you want to carry a
5 concealed weapon -- and it says "without regard
6 to employment or place of possession" -- it
7 means you can carry it anywhere you want to in
8 this state -- it says, "currently by any person
9 when proper cause exists for the issuance
10 thereof." Proper cause -- the burden is now on
11 the applicant to show proper cause to carry a
12 concealed weapon without regard to place and
13 without regard to occupation.
14 What this bill would do is say
15 proper cause would be presumed in instances in
16 which you would shift the burden of the
17 government to show that improper cause or lack
18 of sufficient cause exists.
19 It seems to me we have a broad
20 provision in this state that allows people to
21 carry concealed weapons in certain instances
22 when it is based on the place of the -- in which
23 you carry it or their occupation. We have an
6427
1 extensive law that provides that now without a
2 showing of cause. Simply show the place, show
3 the location and you can carry a concealed
4 pistol if you meet those criteria.
5 Here what I think we're doing is
6 we're giving basically a carte blanche to people
7 that carry consistent -- concealed weapons,
8 concealed pistols, and I think under those
9 instances to simply ask that you have some
10 proper cause, that you demonstrate your
11 competence to carry it, that you demonstrate
12 your understanding of fire safety or whatever
13 else is required to show proper cause, it seems
14 to me that's a minor restriction, a minor burden
15 that we put on the backs of those who want to
16 carry consistent -- concealed permits or
17 concealed pistols, and it seems to me that
18 that's a good idea to keep that provision and
19 not broaden it as the chairman of the Codes
20 Committee wants to do.
21 Carrying a concealed weapon has
22 all -- is fraught with all kinds of dangers, all
23 kinds of potentials. Many responsible gun
6428
1 owners, I'm sure they're not a problem, but I'm
2 concerned about broadening the standard under
3 which concealed weapons will be carried in this
4 state.
5 I think we struck a reasonable
6 balance when we put this provision in the
7 statute in the first place. We ought to
8 maintain that balance now and, therefore, I will
9 be voting in the negative, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read
11 the last -- read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the first day of
14 November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar Number 331 are Senators
20 Abate, Babbush, Connor, Dollinger, Gold,
21 Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Marchi,
22 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato,
23 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith and
6429
1 Waldon. Ayes 34, nays 19.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
3 bill is passed.
4 Senator Waldon.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President.
7 I respectfully respect unanimous
8 consent to be recorded in the negative on
9 Calendar 306.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
11 Without objection, Senator Waldon will be
12 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 306.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 347, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 653-A, an
19 act to amend the Public Health Law, the Criminal
20 Procedure Law and the Family Court Act.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
23 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Skelos.
6430
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 The purpose of this legislation
4 is to provide police officers and peace officers
5 with a method of discovering whether they have
6 been exposed to a transmissible disease during
7 the performance of their duties without
8 jeopardizing the confidentiality of the
9 suspected carrier's medical condition.
10 This bill requires the police or
11 peace officer to apply to the court for the
12 defendant to be tested for certain diseases
13 which the officer can show probable cause that
14 he or she may have been exposed.
15 As we know, police officers are
16 -- continually come in contact with persons who
17 engage in conduct which is likely to often cause
18 them to be a carrier of a transmissible
19 disease. There are treatments which are
20 available after exposure to certain diseases
21 which can prevent them from developing into full
22 blown diseases, many diseases like hepatitis B
23 and TB can be avoided even after exposure by
6431
1 quick treatment. Therefore, it's imperative to
2 be able to ascertain such information to ensure
3 quick treatment. A lengthy process adversely
4 affects the individual and his or her family
5 along with the morale of the entire department
6 in the case of a police department.
7 This legislation is supported by
8 the Nassau County PBA, the Nassau County -- New
9 York City PBA, Nassau County PBA, Police
10 Conference of New York.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Senator Leichter -- I'm sorry.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'll yield to
15 you, Senator Waldon.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
17 Senator Waldon.
18 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
19 much, Senator Leichter. Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 Would the gentleman yield to a
22 question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
6432
1 Senator Skelos, do you yield?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, in this
4 procedure that you wish to have implemented
5 regarding the police, is there any medical
6 intervention, or is it just the guesstimate of
7 the cop on the scene?
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there what?
9 SENATOR WALDON: I said is there
10 any intervention by a medical practitioner in
11 this process, or is it just the best guesstimate
12 of the cop or cops on the scene?
13 SENATOR SKELOS: The judge -- the
14 police officer or peace officer who either
15 arrests or detains an individual or if the
16 person is incarcerated will make an application
17 to the court and would have to show probable
18 cause that the person that they feel that may
19 have exposed them to a transmissible disease is
20 possibly carrying that disease. So they have to
21 go to probable cause and, as you know, that is a
22 very high standard in our judicial system.
23 SENATOR WALDON: If I may
6433
1 continue, Mr. President. Would the gentleman -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
3 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
5 SENATOR WALDON: I'm not sure
6 about the high standard in the judicial system.
7 I know that on the street, an officer, if he has
8 probable cause -- which means that from his
9 training and from his apprehension of the
10 surroundings around him -- if he suspects that
11 someone has committed or is about to commit a
12 crime, he can stop that person, intervene, make
13 certain -- cause certain questions to be asked
14 and if he feels necessary, arrest the person.
15 That is the standard of probable cause, as I
16 understand it, but I'm more concerned about
17 whether or not in the application to the court,
18 is there a doctor in the house? Does someone
19 other than the police officer say, Well, you
20 know, my training at the Academy tells me and my
21 15 years on the street tells me that this person
22 may have this disease or certain diseases? Is
23 there any medical intervention prerequisite to
6434
1 the application to the court for this process?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: That would be up
3 to the court.
4 SENATOR WALDON: Is that a no?
5 There's no -
6 SENATOR SKELOS: No. I said that
7 would be up to the court, and the petitioner's
8 requirement -- or application would have to show
9 probable cause. If the court determines that
10 they would like to have medical testimony, then
11 they could have the medical testimony.
12 SENATOR WALDON: If I may
13 continue, Mr. President.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: May I point out
15 that this is also an in-camera proceeding. It's
16 confidential.
17 SENATOR WALDON: I understand
18 that.
19 Thank you.
20 Mr. President, would the
21 gentleman -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
23 Senator Waldon.
6435
1 SENATOR WALDON: -- would the
2 gentleman continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
4 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
6 President.
7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I
8 appreciate your indulging my questions, but I
9 think what you said to me is that prior to going
10 to the court, it is just the best guesstimate -
11 and pardon the phraseology -- it's the most
12 professional guess or estimate of the police
13 officer which determines that he goes to the
14 court. There's no prerequisite prior to
15 entering the court that he establish prima
16 facie, if you want to call it that, probable
17 cause, if you want to call it that, reasonable
18 suspicion, if you want to call it that, about a
19 disease being carried by the person arrested or
20 being incarcerated. That is clear, is it not?
21 SENATOR SKELOS: The standard is
22 probable cause. If you're a police officer and
23 you feel that you have been exposed to a
6436
1 transmission -- transmissible disease under
2 certain conditions, then you have the right to
3 make an application to the court, and if they
4 feel that there is probable cause to believe
5 that you have been exposed to a transmissible
6 disease, they could then order that that person
7 be tested for a transmissible disease.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
10 Senator Waldon.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 Senator, that wasn't responsive
14 to my question. What I really asked -- and I'll
15 be as simplistic -- I know sometimes I'm
16 convoluted -
17 SENATOR SKELOS: We could differ,
18 Senator Waldon. I mean, I'm going to respond as
19 I wish to respond. You may not like the answer,
20 but I'm going to respond as I wish to respond to
21 your questions.
22 SENATOR WALDON: I don't know if
23 -- are we having a colloquy? That's fine with
6437
1 me.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
3 Senator Waldon, you have the floor right now.
4 You've asked Senator Skelos to yield.
5 SENATOR WALDON: I would like to
6 ask another question of the Senator.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
8 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Not to preamble
12 too much, Senator, but with all due respect to
13 you as a Senator in this chamber and to the
14 process in terms of our dialogue and debate on
15 the floor, it has been my expectation and my
16 history here that most people have really tried
17 to respond to the questions as put, but let's
18 move on.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could
20 respond to that, Mr. President. I believe that
21 I can respond -- or any sponsor can respond to a
22 question the way they think best answers the
23 question, but great minds like yours and mine
6438
1 can disagree, obviously as to the question and
2 to the response.
3 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate the
4 stroking, Senator, but may I continue, Mr.
5 President?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
7 Senator Waldon.
8 SENATOR WALDON: This will be
9 about the last question.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
11 Senator Waldon, do you continue to ask
12 questions?
13 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
14 gentleman continue to yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
16 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are
20 you, in fact, creating a new standard in
21 evidence; because heretofore, I have never, ever
22 heard of probable cause utilized in the fashion
23 that you're characterizing in your proposal. It
6439
1 has always been, in my understanding -- and
2 counsel can correct me, my learned friend who
3 went to law school with me and who was the
4 actual magister of our fraternity and I'll
5 accept what Richie says, but you can tell me
6 whether or not this is a new standard, meaning
7 that we're now going to have probable cause in a
8 situation that does not lead to an arrest.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: The issue of
10 probable cause is not a new standard. That's -
11 exists in our jurisprudence system here in New
12 York state and this country for many years.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
14 much, Senator.
15 Mr. President, on the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
17 Senator Waldon, on the bill.
18 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Skelos
19 and I have debated each other on a number of
20 times and we've done TV shows together that were
21 quite, I think, challenging in terms of the TV
22 audience, but today I think we found a way to
23 dance as we've never danced before.
6440
1 It is my belief that there should
2 be some prerequisite intervention by a medical
3 practitioner before such an application is made
4 to the court for a lot of reasons: One, the
5 police officer is not trained to make medical
6 determinations; two, sometimes bias enters into
7 what the police do, especially with the certain
8 segment of the population, those who may, in
9 fact, have AIDS or those who may be a part of
10 the gay community.
11 Cops, unfortunately -- and I
12 happen to have been part of, for most of my
13 working life -- a major portion of my working
14 life was as a police officer, and I loved what I
15 did. I loved the guys and ladies I worked with,
16 but sometimes we had biases that I found
17 unconscionable, and I would think that this
18 might be an instance where that kind of bias
19 might just erupt and taint the process.
20 So I would encourage us not to
21 vote for this bill in a positive fashion because
22 the proper medical intervention has not
23 occurred, and we should not create problems in
6441
1 terms of suits for the city and state. We
2 should not create problems where the police will
3 do the wrong thing because they haven't had
4 proper intervention by a medical practitioner,
5 and I think that we ought to be sensitive to the
6 needs of a community that has many times -- or
7 all too often, I should say -- been treated
8 unfairly by various forms of the government.
9 So I encourage my colleagues to
10 vote no on this particular proposal.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Senator Leichter.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr.
15 President, what bothers me with this bill is
16 we're trying to deal with a problem that, as far
17 as I understand, doesn't exist.
18 I realize there's a certain
19 ideological attitude which is expressed by these
20 bills but, you know, you can express your
21 ideology in various ways, put out a press
22 statement, and I'm troubled because I'm not
23 aware that we have problem, and I wanted to ask,
6442
1 if Senator Skelos will yield, to see that maybe
2 there's a problem that I'm not aware of.
3 Would you yield, Senator?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yeah, Mr.
5 President. I do yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, can
9 you tell me any instance where a police officer
10 as a consequence of an arrest where he came into
11 contact with a person being arrested and
12 whatever the nature of that contact was that as
13 a consequence, he became HIV-positive? Do you
14 know of one such case?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, first of
16 all, we have a situation that I understand in
17 our corrections system where six percent of the
18 corrections officers have tuberculosis. We have
19 instances where police officers have patted down
20 a person that they're about to arrest and
21 they've pricked themselves with a needle that
22 that person had on their person, but I know that
23 you brought up the issue of AIDS. We're talking
6443
1 about transmissible diseases. This is not an
2 AIDS bill.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
4 if Senator Skelos will be good enough to
5 continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
7 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
10 you're absolutely correct that this bill covers
11 diseases other than AIDS, but it specifically
12 covers AIDS, and the fact of the matter is that
13 this bill wouldn't be before us if it weren't
14 for AIDS. The other diseases have been around
15 for centuries. This Legislature has never
16 bothered to put in this sort of a bill, so we
17 know it's driven by AIDS and, therefore, my
18 question is specifically whether you know of one
19 instance -- one instance -- where somebody
20 arrested prior to conviction and being
21 incarcerated in a state penal institution, where
22 a police officer or court officer or anyone who
23 dealt in a capacity of authority with the
6444
1 arrested person developed the HIV virus?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: With the -
3 maybe I can ask you a question. With the AIDS
4 confidentiality laws, how are we supposed to
5 find that out?
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. -- I'll be
7 happy to answer your question, and then I hope
8 you'll answer my question. It's very easy to
9 find out because I think in most instances, I
10 believe that where people in such situations
11 have become HIV-positive, they have said, I
12 became HIV-positive as a consequence.
13 We've had instances of nurses
14 that were pricked by needles, became
15 HIV-positive. There was this very tragic case
16 of the young woman who, at least it was alleged,
17 became HIV-positive from contact with her
18 dentist. You remember she testified before
19 Congress.
20 So I think that those cases do
21 become public, and I can't believe that a police
22 officer or somebody else covered by your bill
23 who became HIV-positive as a result of contact
6445
1 with an arrested person would not come forth and
2 say, "Hey, look what happened to me."
3 Do you know one such case -- now,
4 let me -- having answered your question, if you
5 would answer my question. Do you -
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator
7 Leichter, I think the issue is that in our
8 prisons today -- and this is testimony that I
9 obtained at a hearing that Assemblyman Feldman
10 had -- that 25 percent of the inmates today test
11 positive for TB. 15 percent in our prison
12 system test positive for HIV. Now, we know some
13 of them have both. These results come from a
14 random sample of 400 prisoners done every two
15 years. So I believe possibly the rate is much
16 higher.
17 We have instances where police
18 officers have been pricked with needles. The
19 issue is not whether that person became
20 HIV-positive or not. The fact is that that
21 police officer has the right to find out if, in
22 fact, the person that was carrying that needle
23 was HIV-positive, and let me ask you this,
6446
1 Senator Leichter. If we took out the HIV
2 provisions, would you then be supportive of the
3 bill?
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
5 would -- I would probably not be supportive of
6 the bill, although I could see some instances
7 where, if you -- if you tested the transmitter
8 of the disease, whether it's a person arrested,
9 preconviction or subsequent to conviction, where
10 it would give you a definitive answer, then I
11 would say maybe we ought to do it.
12 As you know, the real problem
13 that I have with the HIV testing is that I -
14 and while I know it's sincere, and so on, but
15 the fact is that it doesn't do anything for you
16 because I think you will agree -- and I'll ask
17 you to yield for this purpose -- that
18 irrespective of what the test results are from
19 the person who is tested -- the arrested person,
20 let's say -- if the concern is whether HIV virus
21 has been transmitted, that you must -- you must,
22 you must test that police officer or the other
23 people covered by your bill. Don't you agree
6447
1 that's so?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. I mean -
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Leichter
5 -- Senator Leichter, maybe I could ask you a
6 question. Do you believe that we should tell
7 people who are exposed to HIV what course of
8 treatment they should choose?
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry.
10 Could you repeat that question.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Do you believe
12 that we as a Legislature should tell people that
13 have been exposed to the HIV virus what course
14 of treatment they should take?
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
16 wouldn't -- since I have seen this Legislature
17 meddle in so many things, I wouldn't be
18 surprised to find a bill one day that says you
19 should take three green pills in the morning and
20 two yellow ones at noon, and so on. No. I
21 don't think that any one of us have the medical
22 capacity -- when you're talking a "course of
23 treatment", I assume you're talking of medical
6448
1 treatment but, Senator, I wouldn't be surprised
2 to see that bill. It won't have my name on it
3 but, of course, we shouldn't.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator
5 Leichter, if a police officer, again patting
6 down a person, is pricked by a needle, finds out
7 that the person was HIV-positive or a
8 corrections officer is spit upon in the face by
9 a person carrying TB in the prison system, don't
10 you believe they have the right to choose what
11 medical treatment they desire at that point if
12 they find that the person that was either
13 carrying the needle or spit in his face or her
14 face is carrying a transmissible disease?
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
16 Skelos, you're not talking about medical
17 treatment. You're talking about something
18 really quite different. You're talking about
19 the manner in which people covered under your
20 bill can demand that other people be tested.
21 That's not a matter of treatment.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure, it is.
23 Following -- following the testing, you then
6449
1 have a right to do what's best -- what you feel
2 is in your best interests to protect yourself.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if I
4 may respond, take that as a question, you
5 certainly have certain rights as to what
6 medication you're going to take, what course of
7 treatment you're going to follow, who you're
8 going to see, but you're talking now about
9 invading the rights of people -- and I consider
10 them rights -- people who have not yet been
11 convicted -- I'm particularly concerned of an
12 arrested person -- and I have trouble seeing on
13 what basis we're going to invade that right,
14 particularly when we're talking about the HIV
15 virus, when it serves absolutely no purpose,
16 because you've conceded that we have to -- that
17 the person who thinks he or she may have been
18 affected has to be tested irrespective of the
19 test that is given to the person who is the
20 alleged transmitter of the disease. That being
21 so, why would I invade somebody's rights when it
22 serves no purpose whatsoever?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: I'll use one
6450
1 example. Hepatitis B, if it can be treated
2 immediately, you can be cured of that problem as
3 a police officer or as a corrections officer.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, as
5 you know, the reason that I ask asked you about
6 AIDS is because that's what's driving this
7 bill. If you want to put forth a bill here that
8 deals about hepatitis and deals about TB, I
9 would look at it in a different way because -
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator
11 Leichter, are you basing -
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can I just
13 finish?
14 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm sorry.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- I'd look
16 at it in a different way because if the concern
17 is TB -- and I -- somebody -- I'm an arresting
18 officer, somebody has spat at me, I'm concerned
19 that the person has TB, there's probable cause,
20 and so on -- well, if I test that person and he
21 tests negative for TB, then it's clear that I
22 could not have caught TB from him, but AIDS is a
23 totally different situation, and we discussed
6451
1 this at great length when we had another bill -
2 I don't believe it was your bill. I think it
3 was Senator Saland's bill about testing people
4 for AIDS prior to their conviction.
5 So I've got to take a look at
6 what I know drives this bill, and I look at your
7 memo, I look at the bill and it continuously
8 talks about HIV, and we have to acknowledge the
9 fact that TB has been around for hundreds of
10 years, and this Legislature has never passed
11 such a bill regarding the testing of TB, so it
12 hasn't been a problem, and that gets back to my
13 initial question.
14 Where is the problem? Where are
15 the police officers who believe or think that
16 they have contacted the HIV virus? I don't know
17 of a single case, and I don't know of any
18 benefit that would be -- that would be achieved
19 by testing the alleged transmitter of the
20 disease.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: And as with
22 Senator Waldon, great minds can differ, Senator
23 Leichter, but I believe that the police officer,
6452
1 peace officer in the performance of their duty
2 have the right to protect themselves, that they
3 have certain rights and with the standard of
4 probable cause, there are sufficient protections
5 of the person being -- that's being tested.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
7 on the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
9 Senator Leichter.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: On the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
12 Senator Leichter, on the bill.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I want to
14 thank you, Senator Skelos. I think we've
15 certainly clarified and crystallized the
16 differences between us.
17 Let me say, being a police
18 officer, it's a very tough job and you do place
19 yourself under risk. So if there's things that
20 we can do that will really help a police officer
21 avoid a serious disease, I want to do it, and I
22 could see some basis for doing it in the case of
23 TB, although we -- as I pointed out, the
6453
1 Legislature hasn't done this for the hundred
2 years or so that TB has been around, so it must
3 not really be a serious problem.
4 Hepatitis, you're absolutely
5 correct. The sooner that you treat hepatitis,
6 the better are the chances of curing the
7 person. It's a serious disease but, again, I
8 don't know whether we've ever had a problem, but
9 when we get to HIV -- and that's the reason this
10 bill is before us -- I mean, you could talk
11 about other communicable diseases. You could
12 clothe the bill in any sort of ornaments that
13 you want to, but that's why this bill is before
14 us, and that -- here we're just dealing with an
15 ideological statement because there's no medical
16 fact which lends any credence to it, and I think
17 all of us have to admit that even arrested
18 people have certain rights.
19 Now, those rights at various
20 times have to be -- have to be subordinated to
21 other rights if there's a purpose for it, but
22 when you get to HIV, because it is such a
23 difficult, such a complex disease about which we
6454
1 still, unfortunately, know far too little -- but
2 the one thing we know is that the fact that
3 somebody tests positive doesn't mean that the
4 person who thinks that they were in contact with
5 the transmitter, that he or she will become
6 positive, and even if the person tests negative,
7 it isn't an assurance at all that the HIV virus
8 hasn't been transmitted because the person may
9 have had unprotected sex the night before and
10 may have acquired the HIV virus. It won't show
11 up in the test, but he can transmit the
12 disease.
13 So faced with that, why would we
14 in any way affect or infringe -- I think it is
15 an infringement -- somebody's rights when it
16 doesn't serve a purpose? There's no medical
17 purpose that's involved, and Senator Skelos very
18 candidly said -- I asked him, don't you have to
19 test the police officer under any circumstances
20 irrespective of the test that was given to the
21 alleged transmitter of the disease, and he said
22 yes.
23 That being so, I think it
6455
1 undermines and undercuts this particular bill,
2 and you can't -- I just want to -- I guess I'm
3 emphasizing, repeating it, but I think it's
4 worth repeating it -- don't sell a bill that
5 deals with HIV, and when you can't answer and
6 you can't provide any logic for the HIV testing,
7 you say, Well, it could be another communicable
8 disease.
9 This bill is here for HIV. It
10 refers to HIV. It's sold on the basis that
11 you're dealing with HIV, and the medical
12 knowledge that we have just doesn't support what
13 this bill tries to do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
15 Senator Abate.
16 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Mr.
17 President. Would Senator Skelos yield to a
18 question?
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
22 Senator Skelos yields.
23 SENATOR ABATE: I have some
6456
1 questions around the process itself that I don't
2 understand. I think the bill says that probable
3 cause has to be articulated to the judge in
4 order for the order to be granted and the
5 testing to take place. Who needs to carry the
6 burden to show probable cause, and is -- does
7 the district attorney represent the officer in
8 this case or does private counsel intervene and
9 represent the officer in this case?
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Private counsel
11 of the petitioner. The petitioner has the
12 burden to show probable cause.
13 SENATOR ABATE: And when do you
14 think this motion will take place? Will it be a
15 special calendaring because, as you know, in
16 court cases, cases are adjourned periodically.
17 So would this allow the attorney, the private
18 attorney representing the officer to try to get
19 this case rescheduled at an earlier date for a
20 special hearing?
21 SENATOR SKELOS: The petitioner
22 would make the application, and I would assume
23 that the application would be heard
6457
1 expeditiously.
2 SENATOR ABATE: And would it be
3 made -- would the motion be made ex parte to the
4 judge for a hearing?
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
6 SENATOR ABATE: So it would be an
7 ex parte motion and a hearing would take place;
8 and prior to the hearing taking place, the
9 defendant could be -- we're talking about the
10 defendant in this case -- the defendant could be
11 held for 24 hours pending a hearing even taking
12 place, or is it 24 hours after the hearing and
13 the judge has an additional 24 hours to make a
14 decision?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. The judge
16 has 24 hours to make the decision.
17 SENATOR ABATE: A judge has 24
18 hours, but then can a defendant be held in -
19 pending finding the judge getting the hearing -
20 the hearing may take some time. So conceivably
21 the defendant would be held in more than 24
22 hours pending the decision of the judge.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Possibly.
6458
1 SENATOR ABATE: So we're dealing
2 with a situation, probable cause has to be
3 determined and before that hearing takes place,
4 a defendant is going to be held -- be detained
5 for a period of time. During that period of
6 detention, are these individuals held in
7 isolation, because we don't know that they have
8 TB. We don't know what they have.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I just ask
10 you a question? Are you reading the "A" print
11 or the 653?
12 SENATOR ABATE: I have 653.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: There's an "A"
14 print.
15 SENATOR ABATE: Okay. I don't
16 have the "A" print.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: There is an "A"
18 print.
19 SENATOR ABATE: Okay. I don't
20 have it, but maybe since I haven't read the "A"
21 print, maybe you can explain to me, if -- before
22 a hearing, before a decision is made, my
23 understanding, a defendant would be held in
6459
1 detention up to 24 hours. Is there something in
2 the bill that requires this defendant to be held
3 in isolation for that period of time?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: No, there is
5 not.
6 SENATOR ABATE: Even though the
7 defendant might have TB?
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Haven't proven
9 it.
10 SENATOR ABATE: And who would
11 bear -- the last question is who would bear the
12 cost of the testing? Who will bear -- has there
13 been any cost analysis of the cost of doing the
14 hearing itself?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: It would be by
16 the public health officer.
17 SENATOR ABATE: And have you done
18 any kind of physical analysis of what the cost
19 would be to the court system -
20 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
21 SENATOR ABATE: -- of detaining
22 people an additional 24 hours or the cost of
23 having these additional hearings?
6460
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I have not done
2 that. My concern is the police officers and the
3 corrections officers.
4 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill.
5 Thank you, Senator.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
7 Senator Abate, on the bill.
8 SENATOR ABATE: I oppose this
9 bill. I have a similar concern with this body
10 and in particular, the sponsor. I care about
11 the health and welfare of police officers and
12 uniform court officers and correction officers.
13 I look at the memo and the justification
14 language, and let me cite the justification
15 language.
16 "This legislation is needed to
17 provide quick answers and peace of mind to
18 officers."
19 I do not believe this bill as
20 written provides quick answers or peace of mind
21 to officers. If we care -- and we debated this
22 issue last week as it dealt with victims, and
23 last week I said if we really care about victims
6461
1 -- and in this case, if we really care about
2 law enforcement officers -- we need to give them
3 information that is going to protect their
4 health, get them into treatment and not be
5 burdensome.
6 We now have a test that did not
7 exist. This debate and this bill, I believe is
8 an outgrowth of old debates. We now have a test
9 called PCR testing. Instead of putting our
10 money into what I call these ridiculous hearings
11 that will be an outgrowth of this bill, the cost
12 in detaining people 24 hours on the premise that
13 there might be an order for testing, let's put
14 this money directly into testing officers who
15 want to be tested. Through the PCR test, they
16 can get that information immediately. Put money
17 so officers can be tested frequently so that
18 they know what is happening to their own
19 bodies. They should have precounseling and
20 post-counseling testing to help them in their
21 endeavors.
22 What this bill does is give
23 officers bad information. It talks about
6462
1 information about another individual. It does
2 not help them assess their health needs.
3 I agree with Senator Leichter.
4 This bill is not about TB. As a former
5 commissioner of correction -- and I know because
6 I was there at Rikers Island when the TB
7 epidemic was really at its greatest, and that
8 there are protocols in all the prison systems,
9 and I understand -- I've dealt with this issue
10 with correction officers who have some great
11 deal of concern, but the protocols are when
12 inmates are admitted, they are tested. They not
13 only get blood tests, they get chest X-rays,
14 they get sputum tests. They are immediately
15 isolated. Officers know -- that means uniform
16 officers, police officers and corrections
17 officers know when someone has been identified
18 with TB, they're put into isolation units. Some
19 of the best isolation units are at Rikers
20 Island. They don't leave those units until they
21 are no longer at risk of communicating that
22 disease to someone else. There's directly
23 observed therapy. There are protocols now on
6463
1 the local and state level to assure that
2 officers -- and training ad nauseam to assure
3 that officers are not placed at risk with people
4 who have TB.
5 So rest assured this is not a
6 tuberculosis bill. If this were a tuberculosis
7 bill, we should put as much money as possible in
8 identifying people with TB, isolating them,
9 ensuring there is directly observed therapy and
10 protecting those law enforcement officers that
11 come in contact with people with TB, but this is
12 not TB. This is HIV-positive. The doctors have
13 said and the experts have said, if you want to
14 help someone who thinks they have been infected,
15 the best help you can give that individual is
16 tell them to test themselves periodically to get
17 the correct information.
18 So instead of putting money again
19 into a burdensome court proceeding that talks
20 about probable cause, talks about additional
21 detention, that talks about isolation, take that
22 money so we can actually help the officer
23 himself or herself. That is a pro-victim bill.
6464
1 That is a pro-law enforcement bill. It could be
2 done with less burden on the courts, less burden
3 on the officer himself or herself. That is a
4 better bill. Now that we have the PCR testing,
5 we should revisit the bill and do something
6 that's, in fact, going to help law enforcement
7 officials.
8 Until we amend this bill and
9 effectively do something that provides good
10 health information to the officers, I will
11 continue to oppose this legislation.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
13 Senator Lachman.
14 SENATOR LACHMAN: On the bill and
15 then a question to the Senator. I think it's
16 essential as every member in this chamber does
17 to ally ourselves with the police officials who
18 put their lives on the line in protection of our
19 -- of us, our families and our communities.
20 The question, however, I have is,
21 is this the best possible form of legislation
22 that would achieve the objective we want in
23 order to protect our police officials?
6465
1 To be more specific, I do happen
2 to feel very strongly that TB is growing in this
3 society, and the drugs that have been used in
4 the past have not proven to be as effective to
5 counteract the dangers from tuberculosis.
6 However, Senator -- Senator
7 Skelos, if the purpose or general idea of the
8 bill, you don't get the impression, as I did get
9 to some extent in your comments, that this is a
10 general bill involving all transmissible,
11 communicable diseases, because it specifically
12 states to provide police officers, court clerks,
13 uniform court officers and correction officers
14 with the method of discovering where they have
15 been exposed to the AIDS virus or other related
16 viruses.
17 Now, tuberculosis is not an
18 "other related" virus. At the same time,
19 tuberculosis should now be looked at again
20 because it is increasing in our society.
21 Now, I would like to know, if the
22 Senator with yield, Senator Skelos, in the
23 tradition of conciliation of Senator Tully and
6466
1 in a previous Senate in the previous century of
2 Henry Clay, would you be willing to change the
3 definition of the purpose or general idea of the
4 bill to conform with what you said in this
5 chamber it is all about, which you cannot tell
6 from reading this, because from reading this
7 explanation, you single out a cohort of the
8 population, rather than getting to the heart of
9 the matter which I think we should reach.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
11 Senator Skelos, do you yield?
12 SENATOR SKELOS: I'll try to
13 answer Senator Lachman's question. If you -
14 perhaps you're reading a memo, but if you would
15 look at the -
16 SENATOR LACHMAN: I'm reading
17 your memorandum in support of the legislation.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Well -
19 SENATOR LACHMAN: And this is
20 right on top, the first paragraph.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: If you would
22 look at line 27, we define "Transmissible
23 disease shall include the immunodeficiency
6467
1 virus, HIV or any of its derivatives, hepatitis
2 and any of its derivatives, tuberculosis and any
3 other serious illness which the court finds the
4 petitioner could have a reasonable expectation
5 of contracting from a subject as a result of the
6 alleged exposure."
7 SENATOR LACHMAN: Would the
8 Senator continue to yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK:
10 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
12 SENATOR LACHMAN: Would you,
13 therefore, be willing to change the top
14 paragraph of the purpose or general idea of the
15 bill which gives an erroneous impression about
16 the objective of the bill?
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I just -
18 I could answer that by saying we pass
19 legislation, not memos, but I'm not sure which
20 memo -
21 SENATOR LACHMAN: But there are
22 memos to explain the legislation.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not sure
6468
1 which memo you're talking about. Is that the
2 sponsor's memo?
3 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. It says
4 Harvey Weisenberg.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: For the "A"
6 version or the "B" version -- or the regular
7 version, which version?
8 SENATOR LACHMAN: Sorry. I'm
9 told I'm supposed to stand.
10 It says "Memorandum in support of
11 legislation submitted in accordance with
12 Assembly Rule 3, Section 1 (e)", and the first
13 paragraph after the definition of the title of
14 the bill discusses the purpose or general idea
15 of the bill and singles out a specific cohort of
16 the population rather than the rest of the
17 population.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Lachman,
19 again, I hate to be debating memos, but my
20 sponsor's memo says, "New York State Senate
21 introducer's memorandum in support submitted in
22 accordance of certain rules", and then it says,
23 "Senate Bill S.653-A." Is that the memo that
6469
1 you're looking at?
2 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. Maybe we
3 have different versions of the same memo.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: It says 653-A?
5 Okay. I'D be delighted at some point to change
6 the memo then. Do you have the Assembly memo or
7 the Senate memo, because you said "in accordance
8 with the Assembly rules."
9 SENATOR LACHMAN: It says -- I'm
10 sorry. It says "Member of Assembly and
11 Senators." Your name is listed along with
12 Assemblyman Weisenberg.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: That, I don't
14 believe is our memo, Senator Lachman.
15 SENATOR LACHMAN: It must be the
16 Assembly memo then.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger, you're next on the list.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 One question for the sponsor. I
22 want to follow up on the point that Senator
23 Abate made.
6470
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Dollinger?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If we drafted
8 a bill that said if a police officer or court
9 officer is in a position where there might be an
10 exposure to any one of the transmittable
11 diseases that you mentioned, the officer could
12 go to the medical officer of the department for
13 which they work, be it the police department or
14 a court officer, and if the physician said that
15 there was probable cause -- a physician
16 determined that they were in a situation in
17 which exposure could occur, that the state of
18 New York would pay to have that person tested
19 for whatever transmittable disease that existed
20 and they would pay for the cost of that. Would
21 you support that bill?
22 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm supporting
23 the bill that's before me right now.
6471
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
2 you, Mr. President. Would you support that
3 bill?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: I would have to
5 see the entire bill or the provisions and
6 certainly I would have an open mind.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Well,
8 Mr. President, it's my hypothetical. It's very
9 simple. If an officer believes that they have
10 been exposed, they go to the chief medical
11 officer of their employer, relate the facts
12 under which they believe they were exposed, the
13 chief medical officer would then say either,
14 Yes, that's a reasonable likelihood that you
15 were exposed or he would say, No, there's no
16 chance you were exposed and then the employee
17 would have the choice of either appealing the
18 decision or review of the decision, but bottom
19 line is that if the physician said there's a
20 reasonable likelihood of exposure, then the
21 state of New York would pay to have that person
22 tested for every possible transmittable
23 disease. Would you support -
6472
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I'd have to
2 think about it, Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
4 Mr. President, on the bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Skelos, do you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
8 Waldon talked about Senator Skelos' dancing
9 ability, and he's been at Arthur Murray a number
10 of visits recently because -- my question was
11 rather pointed and direct -
12 SENATOR SKELOS: The difference
13 between you and me is I have maybe two right
14 feet and you have two left feet.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I may even
16 take that as an accurate description, Mr.
17 President, but the point I'm trying to make is
18 that the problem that Senator Skelos'
19 legislation addresses is an important one, that
20 is, what are the circumstances under which the
21 people who are out on the front lines of
22 fighting crime and handling our court system,
23 what's the chance that they're going to be
6473
1 exposed to something that could adversely impact
2 their health.
3 But Senator Abate is correct.
4 Senator Waldon is correct. Senator Leichter is
5 correct. There's just no point -- no point in
6 raising everybody's anxiety level by testing the
7 person who might be the suspected carrier.
8 The far better solution to this
9 problem, the absolutely irrebuttable solution to
10 this problem, the best way to handle this
11 problem, the way that actually solves the
12 problem rather than dances around the edge is to
13 simply have the state of New York, through the
14 Public Health Law or other provisions, give to
15 the police officer or the corrections officer or
16 the court officer the ability to be tested to
17 find out whether they've actually got it.
18 I think Senator Abate made a good
19 point when she said all this bill will do is
20 require that that be done as the second step.
21 This is the first step in the dance. It's the
22 second step in the dance that really gives you
23 the information that you need to be able to make
6474
1 proper health decisions and that is, regardless
2 of what the suspected carrier has as a disease,
3 the question is, do you have it? It's a logical
4 question. We ought to be able to give our
5 corrections officers, our court officers -
6 excuse me. This just applies to court officers
7 and police officers -- we ought to be able to
8 give them some assurance that we care enough
9 about them, not just to tell them that they
10 might be exposed, but that they actually have
11 it. That's what you really need to do to solve
12 this problem.
13 This bill is all about -- in my
14 judgment, about dancing around the political
15 periphery and not getting to the heart of the
16 issue. If you want to get to the heart of the
17 issue, put together a bill that says if you're a
18 court officer or a police officer, you think you
19 have been exposed, go to a medical director,
20 have the medical director conclude -- reach a
21 conclusion based on the facts given that there's
22 a likelihood that you were exposed, and the
23 state of New York will pay for the cost of the
6475
1 testing, both then and six months from then -
2 from the time of suspected transmission and a
3 year from the time of suspected transmission, so
4 that we can put the police officers and court
5 officers of this state at ease in knowing
6 whether or not they've contracted one of these
7 potentially dangerous if not fatal diseases.
8 If you want to solve the problem,
9 that's the way you solve the problem. This
10 doesn't solve the problem. This just, in my
11 judgment, creates a political posture that says
12 we've done something politically popular but we
13 haven't solved the problem.
14 I concur with my colleagues who
15 say, if you want to do it, there's a simple way
16 to do it. Let's do it that way and get the job
17 done.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson is next on the list, but he's absent
20 from the chamber momentarily.
21 Senator Gold.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr.
23 President, I think that we, unfortunately in
6476
1 this chamber have our enemies list, and whenever
2 things get slow, particularly at this time of
3 the year when we don't have a budget, something
4 gets rolled out so that we can have another
5 scapegoat out there to take a shot at.
6 If there were a law, I guess we
7 could get a bill put out that says banning
8 abortions in the 11th month. After all, you
9 know, some people carry past the ninth month.
10 You never know, and you certainly don't want
11 11-month abortions. Then we'll have to vote on
12 that.
13 I'm concerned about this bill for
14 one reason, Senator Skelos, and it's a really
15 very practical reason, and I would hope that you
16 would see it as a practical reason.
17 There are some people in this
18 chamber who very rightfully take predictable
19 positions on any bill dealing with AIDS, and the
20 rumors in the back rooms here are that, Well,
21 they've got certain constituencies and when get
22 into a certain central part of New York City,
23 they react to these kinds of bills.
6477
1 I, for one, understand very much
2 how difficult it is being a police officer,
3 being a correction officer, being subjected in
4 any of these circumstances, but I'll tell you
5 what's wrong with the bill, Senator, and it's
6 more practical than it is philosophical.
7 We have in the last few months
8 seen what is probably, in my recollection, the
9 most unprecedented attack on the judiciary by
10 irresponsible press -- well, irresponsible press
11 is really the same word, I guess -- than I have
12 ever seen. And what happens when that happens?
13 We in this country have prided
14 ourselves in things called separation of
15 powers. We prided ourselves in the fact that if
16 you have an independent judiciary, you won't
17 have what you had in Nazi Germany where judges,
18 in their own defense at trials after the war
19 said, They made me do it and I only followed bad
20 laws, et cetera, et cetera. We always prided
21 ourselves in an independent judiciary.
22 Judges, male and female, are only
23 people. They are only people. Hopefully,
6478
1 they're our best people, but they're only
2 people, and I can tell you, Senator Skelos, that
3 in the last few months there are unquestionably
4 judges, decent people, who are making decisions
5 that they don't necessarily believe in or that
6 maybe they wouldn't have made a year ago because
7 they're concerned about how somebody in the
8 press is going to write about it.
9 Now, I believe that as a member
10 of the Legislature we should be responsible to
11 the people who elect us. There's no doubt about
12 that. I believe that as a member of the
13 judiciary, a judge should be responsible to the
14 society which he is representing or she is
15 representing but, Senator, the problem with the
16 bill is that probable cause, as I see it, is not
17 really spelled out and it's an invitation to a
18 judge to say, Look, what's the harm? Somebody
19 did it and we'll give the test. It may have an
20 effect. It may not have an effect. There may
21 have to be another test, but I'm not reading my
22 name in the New York "blah, blah, blah", and
23 this irresponsible reporter or that
6479
1 irresponsible reporter ain't going to pick me
2 out as one the junk justice just because let
3 somebody else worry about it and that, Senator
4 Skelos, is dangerous because you're always
5 talking about that first crack in the dam, that
6 first opening of the door. That's what these
7 things are all about, because then we start to
8 create precedents, and we in this Legislature
9 should be very careful about the precedents that
10 we create.
11 Judges are honorable people;
12 there's no doubt about it, trying to do
13 honorable work. If you're asking me whether or
14 not we should have restraints upon the press,
15 absolutely not. I mean, if you have to take one
16 of two evils, you give me the freedom of press
17 we have in this country and, yes, even the
18 irresponsibility that goes with it, but on the
19 other hand, we have to understand the doors that
20 we open up.
21 If you have a situation as you
22 admit it to be, Senator Skelos -- and you are an
23 honest man -- you have a situation as you
6480
1 understand it to be, that the only protection an
2 officer would have is for self-examination, then
3 what in the heck are we doing in this bill?
4 What are we doing?
5 I think that the dangers in this
6 bill far outweigh any situation where we would
7 be helping a police officer, and I intend to
8 vote against it.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe
12 Senator Paterson wants to come in and debate the
13 bill, and if I could, on behalf of Senator Levy,
14 there will be a meeting of the Transportation
15 Committee at noon in Room 124 of the Capitol to
16 consider nominations.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: By way of
18 announcement, Senator Levy has called a
19 Transportation Committee meeting at noon, ten
20 minutes from now, in Room 124 of the Capitol.
21 Is there any other Senator
22 besides Senator Paterson wishing to speak on
23 this bill?
6481
1 (There was no response.)
2 Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator
4 Skelos yield to just a couple other questions?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
8 The testing that's required under
9 this bill for the suspected transmitter, would
10 that cost -- you mentioned that that would be
11 covered by the Public Health Law, is that
12 correct?
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Public health
14 officer would be in charge of the testing
15 proceeding.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. But
17 who pays for it?
18 SENATOR SKELOS: It comes out of
19 that county or town.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So it
21 would be paid for by the county. Is there any
22 provision here to have the state pay any portion
23 of this?
6482
1 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So
3 this is a mandate that we're requiring counties
4 to pay for.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: This is
6 protecting police officers and peace officers.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay.
8 Somehow I have a feeling my county executive
9 would come back and tell me that's a mandate.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: I think your
11 county executive would be delighted to protect
12 police officers and peace officers.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, he may
14 tell you that. He may not quite tell me that,
15 but let me just follow up on that if I may, Mr.
16 President. What's the possibility that Workers'
17 Compensation would cover the cost?
18 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't know the
19 answer to that.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, if it
21 were a cost related to the employee's exposure,
22 if it were anticipated that there might be a
23 disease that were transmitted, wouldn't that be
6483
1 covered by Workers' Compensation?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Possibly if it
3 was part of an injury.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But -- again
5 through you, Mr. President. If it was an
6 exposure which creates the potential for injury,
7 wouldn't there be a compensation recovery? I
8 mean, wouldn't you -- wouldn't this become part
9 of Workers' Compensation to cover the cost?
10 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't believe
11 so. I think if there was an injury, possibly.
12 Without an injury, no.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
14 you, Mr. President. What's the possibility that
15 health insurance on the part of the police
16 officer would cover the exposure?
17 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't -- I
18 don't believe so.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again
20 through you, Mr. President, suppose the officer
21 goes to his private physician and says, "I think
22 I have been exposed to TB or HIV and I'd like to
23 find out whether I have been exposed", wouldn't
6484
1 his health insurance cover that if his physician
2 recommended it?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: I have no idea
4 what that person's policy says.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well,
6 wouldn't it be logical to assume that they would
7 pay for it?
8 SENATOR SKELOS: I -- you know,
9 with many health insurance policies, there's
10 logic to them and there's non-logic to them. So
11 I would have to look at the individual policy.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, Mr.
13 President, I believe Senator Paterson may have
14 additional questions that he wants to follow up
15 on this, but the issue of the payments through
16 other sources, either through Workers' Comp' or
17 through health insurance, I think is another
18 aspect to this bill that raises the possibility
19 that there's another way to do this to
20 accomplish the beneficial result that you want
21 without having to go through this
22 around-the-corner approach of requiring the
23 testing of the suspected transmitter.
6485
1 I'll yield to Senator Paterson.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
3 recognizes Senator Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
5 I think most of the questions I would have asked
6 Senator Skelos have already been asked quite
7 eloquently by other members, but since he was
8 standing, I wondered if he would yield for one
9 more question.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Skelos, do you yield? The Senator yields.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
15 Skelos, should this bill be made law -- and I
16 see you've worked very hard on it, and I don't
17 know of any more diligent staff than the one
18 that you possess.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: I agree with
20 you.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: -- the
22 question is do you think that this legislation
23 could act as somewhat of a deterrence or perhaps
6486
1 even raise false hopes if the suspect tests
2 negative and the victim who is a peace officer,
3 corrections officer -- police officer, I'm sorry
4 -- then is misguided into feeling that there is
5 no need to be self-tested.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: No. I believe
7 this legislation will provide a peace of mind
8 for the police officer or the peace officer by
9 the fact that the person that they're concerned
10 with in carrying a transmissible disease,
11 whether that person has it or does not have it.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 if Senator Skelos would continue to yield.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: That's the
18 part that I'm just not understanding. This is
19 one of those pieces of legislation that we come
20 to the floor, we debate them, but we're not
21 going to have our minds changed, but this is one
22 of those pieces of legislation that I could have
23 my mind changed. In fact, I have been reviewing
6487
1 it with your staff all morning, and my point is
2 that if you could give me the criteria that
3 establishes the standard of what we're now
4 calling peace of mind -- because we have already
5 understood that we would test the convicted
6 because we're now going to have them in
7 facilities and they're going to have contact
8 with perhaps corrections officers, and that kind
9 of thing, so then we would have testing, and I
10 think both you and I would agree that a
11 convicted felon should be tested, but now let's
12 take a look at this situation. We have a
13 suspect that's been taken into custody. The
14 officer believes that there may have been some
15 contact, but what we're saying is that the fact
16 that this test is administered and the fact that
17 results come in and the suspect tests negative,
18 how does that establish peace of mind when the
19 suspect may actually have tested negative that
20 day, another week or two tests positive and then
21 the victim, who is the police officer,
22 eventually tests positive; where is the peace of
23 mind?
6488
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe I
2 heard that same argument with the baby AIDS
3 debate. Again, here, two great minds are
4 differing, Senator Paterson.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: No, no.
6 Senator, I don't -
7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe that
8 by the fact that this legislation is being
9 supported by the New York City PBA, the Nassau
10 County PBA, the Metropolitan Police Conference,
11 on and on who represent these individuals we're
12 trying to protect, that if they felt that they
13 would not -- that this legislation was not
14 necessary to protect their members, they would
15 not be supportive of it.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
17 if the Senator would continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR PATERSON: On the baby
21 AIDS bill, we have a slightly different
22 circumstance in which I don't think this
23 argument has as much merit. One is that the
6489
1 baby who we're worried about doesn't have any
2 independence and so the testing on that issue,
3 even though I voted against the bill, I would
4 have to concede that the test in that case,
5 based on the information you're presenting right
6 now, would be far more valid, but here we have
7 an individual who can make a decision, and what
8 you're saying in this legislation is we want to
9 establish peace of mind. That's how we're
10 categorizing it, and so I'm giving you a
11 possibility, a scenario.
12 The suspect is arrested. The
13 suspect tests negative. Where is the peace of
14 mind, because unless the person tests
15 themselves, they don't really know, not because
16 we do or do not care about the police officer or
17 that we differ or we have a differing point of
18 view, regardless of what the calibration of our
19 minds are, we're not disagreeing here.
20 I'm just saying to you that since
21 we know it's certainly possible and more than
22 just a scintilla, pretty representative that the
23 test will not reveal whether or not the officer
6490
1 -- the peace officer or police officer that
2 we're trying to protect can contract one of the
3 many viruses that you're talking about, I'm just
4 asking you, where is the peace of mind?
5 SENATOR SKELOS: I think that's
6 not necessarily true because we're dealing with
7 diseases like tuberculosis, which is a bacterial
8 disease, where the person who is infected with
9 it may test positive, but the police officer who
10 has been infected by it or possibly infected by
11 it at that point does not test positive.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 Senator Skelos, in the issue of tuberculosis -
14 and I think you went over this with some of our
15 colleagues -- that -- a simple blood test would
16 not confirm that a person has tuberculosis one
17 way or the other. So for the purposes of this
18 conversation, I would rather not even talk about
19 tuberculosis. I would just like to stick to HIV
20 testing, and I'm just saying that since the test
21 doesn't give a -- any kind of permanence -- you
22 see, what I'm trying to get you to understand
23 is -
6491
1 SENATOR SKELOS: I understand
2 what you're saying, Senator Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, let me
4 just add to it. -- that if you could show me
5 that there is an overwhelming -- that the odds
6 are overwhelming, that the test of the suspect
7 would actually give us valid information about
8 what's happening to the victim, I don't think
9 we'd have any further discussion. I would be
10 willing to take the chance.
11 In other words, I'm saying that
12 to protect the police officer or the peace
13 officer, I would have to follow your
14 recommendation, but what I'm saying is that it's
15 so unreliable -- it's not totally unreliable.
16 It's certainly a very good indicator, but it's
17 so medically inconclusive that other than the
18 fact that we're testing the person just because
19 we'd like to know -- and maybe we need to have a
20 discussion of, do we need to test the suspect
21 just because it may be a good policy; we just
22 need to know while a person is in one of our
23 institutions. We could have that discussion,
6492
1 but what I'm saying -
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Does that
3 include AIDS testing?
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: So you believe
6 every individual, that when they enter into a -
7 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I'm not
8 saying that I believe a person -
9 SENATOR SKELOS: -- a
10 corrections institution that they should be
11 tested for all transmissible diseases, including
12 AIDS.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I'm not
14 saying that I believe it.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: So AIDS should
16 be a -- should be excluded from all testing.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: I don't
18 believe either. I don't believe either of the
19 tests -
20 SENATOR SKELOS: 15 percent of
21 the inmates are HIV-positive and they shouldn't
22 be tested for AIDS but other diseases should be
23 tested.
6493
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, I think
2 that all of the convicted inmates should be
3 tested because that becomes a matter of security
4 and a matter of designation.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: For all
6 diseases, including AIDS.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: For all
8 diseases, including -
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, all
10 transmissible diseases, including AIDS, TB,
11 hepatitis, AIDS, would you include the testing
12 for the AIDS virus in your statement?
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Among inmates
14 in our state prisons?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Absolutely.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Absolutely,
19 but what I'm talking about here are individuals
20 who have not been convicted, who have been
21 charged with a crime, where we haven't fully
22 even established that there is enough contact
23 between the victim -- between the suspect and
6494
1 the victim, and what I'm asking you is how you
2 can offer to the police personnel or the peace
3 officers, how can you offer them peace of mind
4 when you don't have medical information to make
5 the statement that you now have peace of mind
6 because we went and we tested the person that
7 did this to you and we have established that
8 they do not have one of these viruses, so you -
9 SENATOR SKELOS: First of all, in
10 terms of probable cause is necessary for the
11 person to be tested, I think we just have a
12 disagreement. The groups that represent the
13 police officers, the correction officers, people
14 that we're talking about support this
15 legislation and they feel it gives them
16 sufficient peace of mind. So there's obviously
17 a disagreement between you and the police unions
18 who represent these individuals.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Last question,
20 Senator. Would you please tell me what
21 information -- so that we wouldn't want these
22 organizations that are fighting for the
23 well-being of police officers, we wouldn't want
6495
1 them to be confused, and I would suggest that to
2 you that they might be a little confused, not
3 because they don't care, but because they may
4 have been misled, and that was my original
5 question to you. Would this kind of legislation
6 mislead people, and just by telling me that
7 these groups support it, you're just furthering
8 to me the confusion that's being caused by the
9 legislation because you're -
10 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't believe
11 it would mislead them.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay, because
13 you're enumerating a number of groups that are
14 in support of the organization, but you have yet
15 to tell me what information causes them to feel
16 that this would establish peace of mind.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: They have
18 supported the legislation.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 on the -- on the bill.
21 Their support of the legislation
22 of and in itself does not establish that they
23 have peace of mind, and what it means is that
6496
1 they believe that the passage of this
2 legislation would help. If they can't give a
3 reason why they supported the legislation, it
4 leads me back to my original premise, which is
5 that the legislation creates a presumption for
6 which there is no factual evidence that sustains
7 it. The testing of the suspect does not give us
8 enough relevant data to make a medical
9 determination for what is happening to the
10 victim, police officer or peace officer.
11 When we passed the legislation
12 about HIV testing for sexual offenders just a
13 couple of weeks ago, the sponsors of the
14 legislation admitted that the best way for the
15 victim to learn the status of their medical
16 condition is by their own testing. PCR testing
17 right away would be one way to establish it
18 completely.
19 In this situation, I did not hear
20 in this entire long debate any information, not
21 one piece of information that established to me
22 that the testing of the suspect would give us
23 relevant data that would relate to the medical
6497
1 condition of the victim.
2 Although the legislation, as
3 Senator Gold pointed out, may sound very nice
4 and it may be very certainly appealing as in the
5 sweet-smelling salvos that you might swallow and
6 they taste good, but I'm afraid in this case
7 some of the lobbying groups swallowed this
8 legislation whole. Who can blame them? No one,
9 but who can remind them? We can remind them of
10 the terrible truth that as frightening as it may
11 be, that the individual who may actually feel
12 that they have come in contact with a person who
13 has transmitted the HIV virus or hepatitis B or
14 even tuberculosis for which the test is not
15 substantial enough in this legislation, that
16 that person is going to have to be tested, and
17 to in any way even suggest or hint or imply that
18 by testing the perpetrator -- as much as the
19 perpetrator may deserve a punishment, that
20 punishment will not help us determine what the
21 status of the victim is.
22 This is not something that I feel
23 like getting up here and saying. This is an
6498
1 actual medical fact that is understood by those
2 who work in these situations every day, and so
3 I'm saying by opposing this bill that Senator
4 Skelos is on the right track. He did a lot of
5 work on this legislation, a lot of research, but
6 unfortunately, as appealing as the legislation
7 is, it would only help to, in my opinion,
8 confuse individuals and would actually almost
9 compel them in a way not to get themselves
10 tested because they think, Well, the odds are,
11 you know, he didn't have it so I guess I don't
12 have it, and that could be so destructive, and
13 when any of those peace officers or police
14 personnel find out what actually could happen
15 under their bill, I think they would have a
16 different point of view, and I would hope that
17 the advocates for the legislation can come up
18 with at least a reason for why they think it
19 would establish peace of mind, because I
20 certainly couldn't vote for this bill with peace
21 of mind. I wouldn't want to contribute to the
22 transference of any information that would cause
23 people to take an action that might inure to
6499
1 their own detriment.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
5 act shall take effect on the first day of
6 November.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 I'm going to be supporting this
15 bill. The PBA feels that this is going to offer
16 some peace of mind to their law enforcement
17 officers and to other -- other potential victims
18 of transmittable diseases. I'm not at all sure
19 it will, but I'm going to support this. I think
20 there are major flaws here in that testing
21 someone else is not going to help you determine
22 your HIV status and, of course, the most major
23 area of concern won't be addressed, namely, does
6500
1 the law enforcement officer have the disease or
2 does merely the person he's apprehending?
3 More to the point would be to
4 offer testing to all police officers themselves
5 personally than to test the apprehended person,
6 but I'll support it in that I believe the PBA
7 believes that this will cause a calming effect.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the
10 affirmative.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
13 the negative on Calendar Number 347 are Senators
14 Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Lachman,
15 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula,
16 Paterson, Santiago, Seabrook and Waldon. Ayes
17 41, nays 14.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 The Secretary will continue to -
21 Senator Nanula, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
6501
1 I would like to request unanimous
2 consent to be recorded in the negative on
3 Calendar Number 331.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Nanula
6 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
7 Number 331.
8 Senator Leichter, why do you
9 rise?
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
11 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar 971, please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
14 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
15 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on
16 Calendar Number 911.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: 971.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
19 me. It's 971.
20 Senator Montgomery.
21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
22 President, I would like unanimous consent to be
23 in the negative on Calendar 306.
6502
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
2 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
3 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
4 Calendar Number 306.
5 Senator Santiago, why do you
6 rise?
7 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President,
8 I would like to be recorded in the negative on
9 Calendar 331, please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
12 Santiago will be recorded in the negative on
13 Calendar Number 331.
14 The Secretary will continue to
15 call the controversial calendar.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 496, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 2978-A, an
18 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
19 allowing a child.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6503
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 874, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2529, an
9 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
10 empowering community boards.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
12 please.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 874
15 has been asked for by the Acting Minority
16 Leader, Senator Paterson.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 Under the decentralization law
20 that was adopted a quarter of a century ago,
21 school districts in the city of New York are
22 given the authority to manage schools, operate
23 them and facilities under their jurisdiction.
6504
1 One of the authorities not given
2 to them -- and I believe it was an oversight -
3 was the right to determine when because of
4 inclement weather schools should be closed in a
5 specific school district. There's a very
6 practical reason for this.
7 The city of New York, there are
8 parts of the city that are far flung,
9 communities in Staten Island, eastern Queens,
10 northern Bronx, where the weather, a snowstorm
11 as an example, could be substantially more
12 extreme than it would be in perhaps the inner
13 city, and the authority given to superintendents
14 to make a judgment, one that relates
15 specifically to the safety of pupils and
16 personnel on a given day is an authority that I
17 think they should have.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
19 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
20 Senator Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 just to show what an open mind I have, I think
23 Senator Padavan has just convinced me. I think
6505
1 we should all vote for this bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is that a
3 party vote in the affirmative?
4 The Secretary will read the last
5 section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 888, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6055-A, an
16 act to amend the State Finance Law.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos, an explanation of Calendar Number 888
20 has been asked for. Senator Saland is not in
21 the chamber. What's your pleasure?
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
23 temporarily and proceed with -- lay it aside for
6506
1 the day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 will be laid aside for the day at the request of
4 the sponsor.
5 The Secretary will continue to
6 call the controversial calendar.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1022, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
9 Assembly Print 10508, an act legalizing,
10 certifying and confirming the acts of St.
11 Johnsville.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an
6507
1 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in
2 relation to deleting the value limitation.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
4 please.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you stand
6 at ease for a moment.
7 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
8 ease.)
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 could we lay that aside temporarily. I would
11 ask the members as the bills come up for debate,
12 to please be in the chamber, if you're a sponsor
13 of the bill or you wish to debate the bill.
14 We're in the -- hopefully the last few days of
15 session and it's very important we be here to
16 move ahead in an ordinary fashion.
17 If we could, Mr. President, take
18 up Senator Velella's bill, Calendar Number 1238.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1238.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1238, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6959-A,
23 an act authorizing the commissioner of General
6508
1 Services.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
14 if we could continue with the calendar, reg...
15 controversial calendar, regular order.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will continue to call the
18 controversial calendar, beginning with Calendar
19 Number 1125.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1125, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 329, an act
22 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
23 relation to pedestrians' right of way and
6509
1 crosswalks.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Star that at the
9 request of the sponsor.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is starred at the request of the sponsor.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1189, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7133,
14 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
17 President, this -- this bill exempts from the
18 freedom of information requests material
19 provided by small businesses to the
20 Environmental Facilities Corporation. The
21 corporation is multi-media and environmental
22 assistance.
23 The Environmental Facilities
6510
1 Corporation, known as the EFC, currently has
2 authority to provide multi-media environmental
3 assistance to small businesses and under current
4 law, information provided by small businesses to
5 the EFC in connection with the provision of such
6 services would, to the extent such information
7 constitutes a record, be subject to the
8 disclosure requirements of the Freedom of
9 Information Law.
10 In contrast, when providing
11 similar services to small businesses to comply
12 with the Clean Air Act, under the Small Business
13 Stationary Source Technical and Environmental
14 Compliance Assistance Program, the information
15 provided about the EFC by participating
16 businesses is expressly exempted from FOIL.
17 This legislation would extend a similar Freedom
18 of Information Law exemption to information
19 provided to the EFC by small businesses in
20 connection with the provision of multi-media
21 assistance.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Oppenheimer.
6511
1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think
2 there is a better way of getting around the
3 problem of having small businesses provide the
4 information. I don't think that -- I'm speaking
5 on the bill -- that reaching a key understanding
6 which citizens have with their government of
7 open government and making records available to
8 -- to all the citizens who are interested in
9 this subject, I don't think that's advanced by
10 this bill. I don't think closing our government
11 files is the right way to go.
12 We do want to offer incentives to
13 have compliance by small business, and we do
14 offer things right now like assuring them that
15 their trade secrets will not be exposed under
16 the Freedom of Information Law, but exempting
17 them from this full compliance with providing
18 information to the general public, I think could
19 only hide possibly environmental violations. We
20 would not like that. We believe in the
21 availability of all government records, and
22 that's why the environmental advocates generally
23 believe this is not a good bill and opposes it.
6512
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
9 the results when tabulated.
10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
11 the negative on Calendar Number 1189 are
12 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Kruger,
13 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula,
14 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago and Seabrook.
15 Ayes 43, nays 12.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 The Secretary will continue to
19 call the controversial calendar.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an
22 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6513
1 Secretary will read the last section.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
4 the day.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside for the day.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1229, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 935-A, an
9 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to
10 liability.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1229
16 has been asked for by Senator Leichter.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, this
18 bill protects volunteer firefighter companies,
19 the districts or department from a strict
20 liability cause of action when a petroleum
21 product is discharged into the ground or water
22 while responding to a fire-related emergency
23 where there is no indication of willful or gross
6514
1 negligence on the part of the named individual.
2 What we're saying is that in this
3 bill, if firefighters respond to an incident and
4 it was shown that they were neglectful, willful
5 and gross negligence, they can be held liable,
6 but if they're in pursuit of their duties and
7 something happens, it is not neglect. It's
8 something that the Association of Fire Districts
9 of the state of New York have been trying to get
10 because more and more firefighters are being
11 called to respond to these incidents, and there
12 is no protection for them out there doing their
13 job properly. This is mainly a volunteer force,
14 and they should have some protection.
15 As you'll note that there is a
16 complaint by the Trial Lawyers, but my response
17 to the Trial Lawyers is that the volunteer fire
18 companies are not afforded blanket immunity.
19 Firefighters, the companies will be held liable
20 if they are found to have an act -- have acted
21 with willful or gross negligence. As such, they
22 shall be granted immunity from only strict
23 liability when they are actually performing
6515
1 their job and they're doing what they have been
2 taught and trained to do and to do properly.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
4 Senator Larkin, it sounds like a reasonable bill
5 to me.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very
7 much, Senator.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1231, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1999, an
20 act to amend the General City Law.
21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Goodman, you asked to speak on the bill?
6516
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: No, Mr.
2 President. I was out of the chamber a few
3 moments ago.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Goodman, we're on a bill on a roll of debate
6 right now.
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: I understand.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Could we
9 take care of that first?
10 SENATOR GOODMAN: I'm sorry,
11 Senator. I yield to the Senator.
12 Thank you.
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
18 question on this bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Nozzolio, do you yield to a question from
21 Senator Dollinger?
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
6517
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
4 short question. Since there's been a roughly
5 comparable situation in the city of Rochester
6 and I'm not familiar with the city of Auburn,
7 are there any memos in opposition from the local
8 plumbers union with respect to this -- this
9 bill, do you know?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator
11 Dollinger -- Mr. President, through you -- that,
12 no, there have been no memos that I'm aware of
13 in opposition. The situation is not similar to
14 Rochester, Senator Dollinger, in the sense that
15 Auburn has 33,000 people, and what they're
16 having is a very difficult time finding the
17 qualified plumbers to serve on these boards that
18 reside within the city limits, and that's the
19 sum and substance of the reason for the request
20 that they're not asking for any -- any efforts
21 to be not in compliance with the building code.
22 It's just the training and other requirements
23 and the supply of trained, skilled labor -
6518
1 organized labor plumbers.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you for
3 that clarification. It is not the situation in
4 the city of Rochester. I appreciate the
5 clarification.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 Senator Velella.
17 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
18 can we move to Calendar 1078, Senate 6459, by
19 Senator Goodman.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We can.
21 Just a minute.
22 Senator Leibell, why do you
23 rise?
6519
1 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President,
2 could I ask unanimous consent on Calendar 1189,
3 Senate 7130.. 7133 to be recorded in the
4 negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Leibell
7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
8 Number 1189.
9 Senator Leichter, why do you
10 rise?
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
12 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
13 the negative on Calendar 874.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
15 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
16 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on
17 Calendar Number 874.
18 Senator Goodman.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Can I too be
20 recorded in the negative on 1189.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Goodman
23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
6520
1 Number 1189.
2 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
3 can we -- can we -- there will be an immediate
4 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Senate
5 Majority Conference Room.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
7 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
8 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules
9 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
10 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee
11 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
12 Now the Secretary will read
13 Calendar Number 1078.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an
16 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in
17 relation to deleting the value limitation.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Goodman, an explanation of Calendar Number 1078
22 has been asked for by the Acting Minority
23 Leader, Senator Paterson.
6521
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, this
2 is a departmental bill from the department of
3 general -- the Office of General Services, and
4 its purpose is to remove the incapacitating and
5 potentially severely detrimental maximum value
6 limitation of $200,000 which restricts emergency
7 construction contracts authorized to be let by
8 the commissioner of General Services.
9 To get to the core of this, we
10 occasionally have serious emergency repair
11 requirements, and I'll give you an example or
12 two to just illustrate this. In 1991, it was
13 necessary promptly to repair ventilating and
14 air-conditioning equipment on several floors of
15 Building 8 of the Harriman State Office Campus
16 to preclude the long-term loss of essential
17 operations of the Department of Taxation and
18 Finance, and then there was the necessity in
19 July of 1993 to replace a major transformer
20 following a fire and explosion in the Corning
21 Tower building, each costing several million
22 dollars.
23 These illustrate the
6522
1 unpredictability of major casualties and the
2 building space losses which must be restored by
3 emergency contracts priced far in excess of
4 $200,000. I may say just to fill this out that
5 we do have -- there has been opposition to the
6 necessary removal of the $200,000 emergency
7 limitation emanating from a concern that the
8 required emergency response by informal,
9 competitive contracting be limited only to those
10 measures which must be immediately taken and
11 accordingly, this bill had previously been
12 amended to develop -- and develop -- the
13 amendments developed jointly with the state
14 comptroller's office which authorized that
15 emergency contracting method be used only for
16 the -- be used only with respect to those
17 aspects of the -- of repair work which has
18 determined to be performed but 130 days
19 following the emergency loss.
20 The remedial work not capable of
21 being performed within such short period would
22 be awarded through the normal formal contracting
23 process.
6523
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Paterson.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
6 Senator Goodman has certainly established the
7 threshold that would bring us into the
8 equation. I just want to find out what the
9 limitations or restrictions are, so if my
10 distinguished neighbor and colleague would yield
11 for a few moments to peruse this bill -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Goodman, do you yield?
14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will,
15 Senator.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I can
19 understand that a number of situations as you
20 described, particularly the one in 1991, are
21 really an example of what would be the catalyst
22 for writing this legislation, that the
23 limitation actually serve to be a hindrance in
6524
1 an emergency situation.
2 What I am concerned with is the
3 abuse of this new authority on behalf of not the
4 current commissioner, but just a commissioner of
5 the department of general services, and what I'm
6 specifically talking about is that we now have
7 no limitation in any contract could just be
8 deemed an emergency and that's the way you would
9 get around certain obstacles, and there's a
10 tendency in these types of situations to feel
11 that issues are rising to the level of an
12 emergency when, in fact, there might be a better
13 way to do them. So if you could just assure us
14 or give us the criteria that would persuade us
15 that there still are restrictions and that there
16 is at least some method of determining what an
17 emergency situation is, I'd feel a lot more
18 comfortable supporting the bill.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Well, Senator,
20 as I indicated, one of the major safeguards that
21 have been instituted in this in consultation
22 with the comptroller's office has been the
23 provision that any work requiring more than 30
6525
1 days will not be given the latitude within this
2 bill, and I think that that is a safeguard
3 that's quite comprehensive, and in the judgment
4 of the comptroller's office having reviewed this
5 quite carefully, their feeling is that the
6 emergency authority granted is reasonable and
7 appropriate and without it, actually there would
8 be quite a crisis created, as I indicated a few
9 moments ago. Unless we grant this authority, it
10 becomes virtually impossible to make prompt
11 repairs to major breakdowns, such as the type
12 that did occur in the Corning Tower that I
13 described and, therefore, I think the 30-day
14 limitation is one which should respond
15 substantially to your concerns.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Dollinger.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator
19 Goodman yield to just one question?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Goodman, do you yield?
22 SENATOR GOODMAN: No debate would
23 be complete, Senator, without having the
6526
1 privilege of yielding to a searching question
2 from you.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, the
4 examples that you cited in your memorandum, were
5 they all completed within 30 days?
6 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, they were,
7 Senator.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In each of
9 those instances, the transformer was repaired
10 within 30 days?
11 SENATOR GOODMAN: To the best of
12 my knowledge, they were, yes.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger, on the bill.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I share
18 Senator Paterson's concerns about deviating from
19 our public bidding laws, even in instances in
20 emergencies. It seems to me to spend $200,000
21 in public money in an emergency is a reasonable
22 limitation on the authority to give to OGS to do
23 this, and I for one continue to favor those laws
6527
1 and believe that even in instances such as this,
2 they can work, and so I'm going to be voting in
3 the negative on this, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
12 the results when tabulated.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 1,
14 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1234, by Member of the Assembly -
19 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
21 would you recognize Senator Seward.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Seward, why do you rise?
6528
1 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
2 would just like to announce that at 1:00 p.m.,
3 the Energy and Telecommunications Committee will
4 be having a committee meeting in Room 123 here
5 in the Capitol. 1:00 p.m., Energy and
6 Telecommunications Committee, Room 123 in the
7 Capitol.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
9 will be an Energy and Telecommunications
10 Committee meeting at 1:00 p.m. in Room 123 of
11 the Capitol.
12 Thank you, Senator Seward.
13 The Secretary will continue to
14 call the controversial calendar.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1234, by Member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly
17 Print 8464, an act in relation to
18 discontinuing.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the last section.
21 Senator Holland, an explanation
22 has been asked for on Calendar Number 1234.
23 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr.
6529
1 President. This is a bill that I have
2 introduced this bill or similar bills for the
3 last six years. We are privileged to have the
4 Assembly on board finally this year, and they
5 have already passed their bill, as you heard,
6 sponsored by Assemblyman Colman.
7 This bill removes the Spring
8 Valley toll barrier which straddles the middle
9 of the Thruway in Spring Valley in Rockland
10 County.
11 Somewhere around 430,000 autos
12 and trucks go through that toll barrier every
13 month and create a tremendous air pollution
14 problem for Rockland County, a noise pollution
15 problem for Rockland County, a serious
16 congestion problem, not only for the Thruway but
17 other roads off the Thruway, and accidents and,
18 in fact, the state of Connecticut, because of
19 toll barriers straddling their Thruway, removed
20 all their toll barriers a few years ago because
21 of the accidents.
22 Recently, Route 287 came
23 through. You know what Route 287 is? It's
6530
1 really like a beltway around the city of New
2 York, like Baltimore has a beltway, like
3 Washington, D.C. has a beltway, and because of
4 the increase in traffic, the noise pollution,
5 the air pollution and all the other problems
6 have increased 20-fold. In fact, the truck
7 traffic has increased by 100 -- over 100
8 percent, and the revenues for the Thruway
9 Authority from 1994 to 1995 increased by $11-1/2
10 million.
11 The residents of Rockland and
12 Orange County pay approximately 24 percent of
13 the total tolls on the Thruway from Buffalo to
14 Yonkers for only nine percent of the road, from
15 Harriman to Yonkers. We believe this is totally
16 unfair, forget the pollution, forget the noise
17 pollution, et cetera. There are two tolls
18 within 11 miles, Spring Valley and the Tappan
19 Zee Bridge.
20 One of the arguments that some
21 people will probably bring up is that there is a
22 loss in revenue, and yet the Thruway Authority
23 is planning to refurbish the Spring Valley toll
6531
1 barrier -- it was supposed to be this year, I
2 believe -- at the cost of about 96 -- at the
3 cost of about $2.2 million.
4 Another problem that we have is
5 that we in Rockland County paying that 24
6 percent -- Orange and Rockland County paying
7 that 24 percent on nine percent of the roads are
8 also supporting other aspects of the Thruway
9 Authority that do not have tolls. We are -
10 with our tolls, we are supporting the canal
11 system, which is about -- budgeted about $26
12 million in 1996, the Syracuse inner harbor, $650
13 million; Exit 26 bridge, $234 million, the
14 Stewart access road, half a million dollars,
15 Interstate I-84, $9 million. Besides across -
16 Interstate 84, no toll exists there. We support
17 that with our tolls. The Cross-Westchester, no
18 tolls exist there. We support that with our
19 tolls.
20 Of course, before anybody else
21 says it, the Thruway has opposed it, and they
22 say it's for financial reasons, but I want to
23 read something from the office of the
6532
1 comptroller. It's an audit he did on the 1988
2 Capital Plan that was issued November the 22nd,
3 1995, and it says a few things, but one of the
4 things it says is "Authority officials are in
5 agreement with this report." It goes on to say,
6 "According to the Authority's audit of
7 financial statements for the year ended December
8 31st, 1994, the Authority had total operating
9 revenues of 309... $339.5 million, of which
10 315.4, 93 percent was derived from Thruway
11 tolls. Approximately 25 million was derived
12 from restaurants and service stations,
13 concessions, investments and other sources.
14 Operating expenses for the year, including
15 maintenance, operation and administering was
16 $195.6 million. The remaining 143.9 million was
17 either deposited in the Authority's reserve or
18 spent on projects other than the Thruway,
19 interest expense and other purposes."
20 This toll barrier is a pollution
21 problem to the people of Rockland and Orange
22 County, and the Thruway Authority has much money
23 and can do away with this limited amount of
6533
1 revenue that this creates.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator
5 Holland yield to a couple of questions?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Holland, do you yield?
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Isn't the
12 comment that you made, Senator, about this being
13 a pollution source equally true of every single
14 toll booth in New York State?
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Well, it is
16 true depending upon the amount of traffic that
17 goes through it. This is one of the busiest
18 tolls. It is a toll that straddles the
19 Thruway. There are six tolls that straddle the
20 Thruway and are not entrances or exits.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, if you come to western New York and
23 go to the Depew station right as you get off the
6534
1 express -- the Thruway to go to Buffalo where
2 there's a toll station, I dare say I'm not
3 familiar with how busy Spring Valley is, but I
4 know that's extremely busy in western New York
5 because all the Thruway traffic goes through it,
6 and I'm not so sure that the argument that it's
7 a pollution source or a source of air and
8 emissions is a sufficient justification for us
9 to do anything, otherwise we would abolish all
10 of the toll booths, wouldn't we?
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: That was
12 suggested -- they were supposed to be abolished
13 in 1996, but Governor Cuomo, your governor,
14 appointed a commission which suggested that it
15 be maintained.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lastly, isn't
17 the logic of closing this toll booth -- you
18 talked about the fact that they're nine percent
19 of the population but they pay 24 percent of the
20 tolls. Isn't it because they use 24 percent of
21 the total miles actually traveled on the Thruway
22 system?
23 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. They use
6535
1 nine percent of the total miles.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Of the total
3 miles.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is that nine
6 percent of the total miles in the two counties
7 or nine percent of the use comes from -
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Nine percent of
9 the total miles runs from the Yonkers toll
10 barrier in Westchester County to the Harriman
11 toll barrier in Orange County.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But if the
13 people in Rockland County or Orange County were
14 using that quite frequently, a natural volume of
15 the use is more than nine percent, isn't it;
16 because I think you said yourself it's very
17 heavily used. So even though it's only nine
18 percent of the road, of the total miles driven
19 on the Thruway every year, it's got to be more
20 than nine percent because so many people use it;
21 isn't that correct?
22 SENATOR HOLLAND: They use it -
23 we use it for commuting back and forth to work,
6536
1 Senator, and we -- and it's right in the middle
2 of the Thruway. You have no way to get on or
3 off and you have to pay the 80 cents daily, yes.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, the
5 point I'm making, Senator, is that even though
6 it's only nine percent of the roads in your
7 community, as far as the total volume of miles
8 driven by people in the Thruway itself, if you
9 took all the miles driven by everybody that had
10 driven it during that year, the percentage
11 that's actually driven in Rockland County is
12 more than nine percent because they use it -
13 the volume is much higher, even though the road
14 distance is relatively short.
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't know
16 how that figures, but I suppose you're right.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill,
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Dollinger, on the bill.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Even though
22 this is a long way from Monroe County, I'm going
23 to vote against this bill, Senator. I think
6537
1 that this is exactly what the Thruway Authority
2 describes it to be. I think it's unconstitution
3 al. I think it does interfere with the rights
4 of bondholders. I think we in a state in which
5 our bond rating is shaky at best, we shouldn't
6 be doing this. I don't think that we can stand
7 here and tell the Thruway Authority what tolls
8 to collect, what not to collect.
9 If the position is that we should
10 abolish all of the tolls everywhere on the
11 Thruway and turn it into a supported road from
12 the general fund, let's have the courage to do
13 that, but to do it on a piece-by-piece basis
14 seems to make no sense and, frankly, I don't
15 know why everybody in Monroe County wouldn't
16 come in and ask for the same benefit that you're
17 seeking here for Rockland and Orange.
18 I appreciate that all politics is
19 local but in some instances, the public good,
20 the broader public good has to overwhelm that
21 public -- that purely parochial concern and
22 while I appreciate it, I nonetheless cannot
23 support it.
6538
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
4 just on the bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PATERSON:
6 Senator Paterson.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: As a matter of
8 technique, I think what Senator Holland may have
9 attempted was to change the Public Authorities
10 Law 373, which really establishes the constitu
11 tionality of what it is that Senator Dollinger
12 is talking about, and it would be expressly
13 unconstituional for us to pass this bill because
14 the law specifically mandates that the Thruway
15 has the authority to impose fees and also to
16 engage in a bond covenant, and so since we
17 already have that bond covenant, to lose $12.5
18 million a year -- or perhaps Senator Holland has
19 a better assessment of how much money it is -
20 would seem to be inappropriate right now given
21 the budget crisis that we have in this state.
22 What I think is particularly
23 interesting about this is that yesterday Senator
6539
1 Bruno, in encouraging us to pass the pesticide
2 registry bill, told us that one of the reasons
3 that the bill was out here is because the
4 Governor said he would veto the Assembly bill.
5 Well, interestingly enough, the Governor has
6 pretty much made it clearly that he would veto
7 this Assembly bill. So I don't even know why
8 we're debating it here today since it's not
9 really going to get anywhere, but that's just a
10 thought because actually, I think we should
11 debate any bill that the sponsor feels is
12 important, and I'm sure the residents of Spring
13 Valley, through Senator Holland, do think that
14 there is an undue burden placed on them and
15 perhaps they are right, but it is something that
16 probably in each of our districts and in each of
17 the communities that we represent, there is some
18 situation where there's an encumbrance upon us
19 as state residents.
20 Very similarly, there are a
21 number of other tolls on the Thruway where the
22 individuals in that particular area are
23 particularly discomforted by its existence.
6540
1 Unfortunately, this is a contribution I think
2 that we all make as state residents.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Holland.
5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I just want to
6 comment on the constitutional question that the
7 Senator brought up -- the two Senators brought
8 up.
9 First of all, if the Legislature
10 created the Thruway Authority, they can end it
11 or change the Thruway Authority and secondly, if
12 you talk about the bondholder's rights, we have
13 recently put on them additional roadways in I-84
14 and the Cross Westchester highway, so we have
15 changed what the bondholders are responsible for
16 already. So I think that really throws out the
17 question.
18 Last comment on the
19 constitutionality, if, in fact, it is
20 unconstitutional, which I do not absolutely
21 believe, it wouldn't be up to us to decide
22 that. It would be up to the courts to decide.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6541
1 Paterson, you wish to speak on the bill?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Paterson.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: If -- it might
7 be something that the courts would determine,
8 but since the language in Public Authorities Law
9 373 is so specific, I don't know that it's
10 prudent for us as legislators to just unduly
11 burden the courts with reviewing something that
12 is almost prima facie just in its writing.
13 However, what I was suggesting -
14 because I'm not trying to suggest to Senator
15 Holland that he has no remedy. I'm just kind of
16 saying that it would be better to change that
17 law because it's sweeping and there are other
18 statutes that are somewhat -- that are also
19 related, and I think we would have to go in that
20 direction, if that's what he was willing to
21 accomplish, and perhaps so because I recognize
22 what the residents in Spring Valley are
23 indicating to us through the attempt to pass
6542
1 this legislation.
2 I'm just continuing to maintain
3 that it is very analogous to situations that
4 occur in other areas along the Thruway which was
5 the actual underpinning to the concept of the
6 Public Authorities Law and its grant to the
7 Thruway Authority in the first place.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
16 the results when tabulated.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Gold to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Just very
21 briefly. I think Senator Holland and I are
22 allowed to have an intellectual disagreement. I
23 think there are a lot of times when
6543
1 constitutional questions come up and we really
2 don't know the answer.
3 On the other hand, Senator
4 Holland, I think we, along with everybody else,
5 raise our hand in the beginning of the session
6 and swear to uphold the Constitution, and if
7 something is clearly unconstitutional, I think
8 it's a violation of the oath as I interpret it.
9 Lastly, let me say that Senator
10 Goodman for years, I believe, had fought for a
11 certain piece of legislation and it was finally
12 determined that the idea might be good but it
13 was not constitutional to do, and he changed it
14 to an amendment to our Constitution. Maybe
15 that's just something you may want to do.
16 This house will pass almost
17 anything you want in order to -- in order to
18 help you as one of the members of that side, and
19 we could be passing something that perhaps would
20 alter the Constitution and make it possible to
21 do, but I think that -- God bless you -- I think
22 that saying that when it's convenient for us -
23 and I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing
6544
1 -- to ignore the constitutionality because it's
2 for the courts, I think there are times when
3 those issues are fairly represented in that way.
4 I do not think this is one of
5 them. I do not think we have the right to do
6 this, and I vote in the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Gold will be recorded in the negative.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
11 the negative on Calendar Number 1234 are
12 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Kruger,
13 Leichter, Markowitz, Nanula, Oppenheimer,
14 Paterson, Santiago and Seabrook. Ayes 45, nays
15 11.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
17 is passed.
18 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR GOLD: If I could have
20 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
21 on Calendar Number 1189, by Senator Marcellino,
22 please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6545
1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gold
2 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
3 Number 1189.
4 Senator Larkin.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
6 may we now return to reports of standing
7 committees. I believe there's a report of the
8 Rules Committee at the desk.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We can
10 and there is a report at the desk. I'll ask the
11 Secretary to read the Rules report.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
14 following bills:
15 Senate Print 766, by Senator
16 Present, an act to amend the Tax Law, in
17 relation to exemption;
18 906, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
19 amend the Tax Law;
20 993-A, an act to amend the Tax
21 Law, in relation to penalties;
22 1915-C, by Senator Waldon, an act
23 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
6546
1 establishing;
2 2402, by Senator Johnson, an act
3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
4 to granting;
5 3125-A, by Senator Marchi, an act
6 to allow Michael Acito to receive credit;
7 3203, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
8 in relation to authorizing the town of East
9 Bloomfield;
10 3812, by Senator Volker, an act
11 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
12 3948, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
13 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the
14 Executive Law;
15 4455, by Senator Hoblock, an act
16 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
17 display of the prisoner of war and missing in
18 action flag;
19 5321-A, by Senator Maziarz, an
20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
21 relation to period;
22 5493, by Senator Santiago, an act
23 to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
6547
1 authorizing;
2 5500-A, by Senator Volker, an act
3 to enact the Criminal Justice Omnibus Act of
4 1996;
5 5761-C, by Senator Stafford, an
6 act to authorize the town of Ticonderoga;
7 5795, by Senator Hoblock, an act
8 to amend Chapter 553 of the Laws of 1994;
9 5798-A, by Senator Hoblock, an
10 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
11 tuition awards;
12 6157, by Senator Holland, an act
13 allowing the village of Piermont, Rockland
14 County to establish;
15 6334, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
16 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to
17 regulation;
18 6535, by Senator Volker, an act
19 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
20 6637, by Senator Stafford, an act
21 to continue the existence of the Hamilton County
22 Industrial Development Agency;
23 7010, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
6548
1 amend the General City Law, in relation to
2 excluding;
3 7090-A, by Senator Larkin, an act
4 to establish the library district in the city of
5 Kingston;
6 7206-A, by Senator Cook, an act
7 to create the Wallkill Public Library District;
8 7301, by Senator Sears, an act to
9 authorize the county of Lewis;
10 7302, by Senator Sears, an act
11 authorizing the county of Lewis to issue serial
12 bonds;
13 7511, by Senator Bruno, an act
14 amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation to
15 the membership of the board of directors;
16 And 7513, by Senator Larkin, an
17 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
18 exemption. All bills ordered directly for third
19 reading.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Larkin.
22 SENATOR LARKIN: I move we accept
23 the Rules -- report of the Rules Committee.
6549
1 Is there any housekeeping?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 motion is to accept the Rules report. All those
4 in favor signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye".)
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 The report is accepted. All
9 bills are directed directly to third reading.
10 Return to motions and resolution.
11 Senator Libous.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 On behalf of Senator Skelos, on
15 page 14, I offer the following amendments to
16 Calendar Number 579, Senate Print Number 5730-B
17 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
18 Third Reading Calendar.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 amendments to Calendar Number 579 are received
21 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
22 the Third Reading Calendar.
23 Senator Larkin.
6550
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
2 we'll now stand at ease. We'll return to
3 session at 6:00 p.m. tonight, and we'd like to
4 remind everybody that they should make sure that
5 their offices know where they're at in case we
6 get an earlier wakeup call. We'll now stand at
7 ease 'til 6:00 p.m.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senate will stand at ease until 6:00 this
10 evening.
11 Before we do that, the Chair
12 recognizes Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
14 there will be a meeting of the Minority in the
15 Minority Conference Room at 1:25 p.m. -- that's
16 1:25 p.m.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
18 will be a meeting of the Minority Conference in
19 the Minority Conference Room, I believe that's
20 314, in one half hour, 30 minutes from now at
21 1:25. A meeting of the Minority Conference in
22 the Minority Conference Room at 1:25.
23 The Chair recognizes Senator
6551
1 Levy.
2 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr.
3 President. I was out of the chamber conducting
4 a committee meeting. I'd like unanimous consent
5 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1189,
6 Senate 7133.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Levy
9 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
10 Number 1189.
11 Senator Smith, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I
13 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the
14 negative on Calendar Number 347, 1189 -- they're
15 still trying to find the other one. I was in
16 Transportation, so I was in -- and Number 1234.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, Senator Smith will be recorded in the
19 negative on those three bills.
20 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 347, 1189
22 and 1234.
23 Any other Senators wishing to
6552
1 register a vote, change a vote at this time?
2 (There was no response.)
3 If not, the Senate will stand at
4 ease until 6:00 a.m. All members are reminded
5 -- excuse me -- 6:00 p.m. -- 6:00 p.m. All
6 members are reminded to stay in touch with their
7 offices subject to the call or the return to
8 this chamber prior to that by the Majority
9 Leader. The Senate stands at ease.
10 (Whereupon, at 2:00 p.m., the
11 Senate stood at ease, until 7:17 p.m.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Without
13 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until
14 tomorrow, Wednesday, June 5, at 10:00 a.m.
15 (Whereupon at 7:18 p.m., the
16 Senate adjourned.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23