Regular Session - June 10, 1996
6855
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7 ALBANY, NEW YORK
8 June 10, 1996
9 3:11 p.m.
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12 REGULAR SESSION
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16 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
17 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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6856
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
3 will come to order. I ask all the members to
4 find their places and staff to find their
5 places.
6 If everybody would rise and join
7 with me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to
8 the Flag, and please remain standing for the
9 invocation.
10 (The assemblage repeated the
11 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
12 We're very pleased today to be
13 joined today by the Reverend Jerry Arduini, who
14 is the Pastor at Ossining Gospel Assembly in
15 Ossining, New York.
16 Reverend Arduini.
17 REVEREND JERRY ARDUINI, Pastor,
18 Ossining Gospel Assembly, Ossining, New York:
19 Thank you, sir.
20 Shall we pray. Heavenly Father,
21 this is the day that the Lord hath made; help us
22 to rejoice and be glad in it.
23 The scriptures admonish us, Lord,
6857
1 that requests, prayers, intercessions and
2 thanksgiving be made for those who are in
3 leadership, that we may live peaceful and quiet
4 lives in all Godliness and holiness. Today we
5 do just that.
6 I pray that Your divine wisdom
7 would come upon these honorable men and women
8 who have been entrusted with the responsibility
9 to help lead this great state.
10 Like Solomon of old who, when
11 asked by God, "Ask for whatever you want me to
12 give you," He responded, "Give me wisdom and
13 knowledge, that I may lead this people, for who
14 is able to govern this great people of Yours?"
15 I pray that the divine presence
16 of Your spirit may fill this chamber. We
17 acknowledge that there are times when human
18 wisdom is not enough. There are those moments
19 when our natural talents and abilities fail and
20 we must step into another realm, those moments
21 when only divine impartation gives balance and
22 leads to justice and good judgment.
23 We thank You, Lord. The
6858
1 scripture says, "Righteousness exalteth the
2 nation." Let the spirit of righteousness rest
3 upon each individual life here today. We pray,
4 Your servants, and as such, we surrender
5 ourselves to Your divine authority, understand
6 ing that You have the best interests of people
7 always in mind.
8 We cannot help but think of the
9 Lord's Prayer which says, "Our Father, which art
10 in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom
11 come, Thy will be done, in earth as it is in
12 heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
13 Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our detors,
14 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us
15 from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the
16 power and the glory forever."
17 May that be the desire of our
18 heart, a desire to see Thy kingdom come, to have
19 Thy will done in earth as it is in heaven. Give
20 us today the provisions we need, and may our
21 hearts be in right relationship with You and
22 with our fellowmen.
23 To You be glory, honor and praise
6859
1 forever more. Amen.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
3 of the Journal.
4 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
5 Sunday, June 9th, the Senate met pursuant to
6 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, June 8,
7 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
8 adjourned.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
10 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
11 read.
12 Presentation of petitions.
13 Messages from the Governor.
14 Messages from the Assembly.
15 Reports of standing committees.
16 Reports of select committees.
17 Communications and reports from
18 state officers.
19 Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
21 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
22 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
6860
1 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
2 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules
3 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room
4 332.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 Senator DiCarlo.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 On behalf of Senator Hoblock, I
10 wish to call up bill Print 6376, recalled from
11 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
15 Hoblock, Senate Print 6736, an act to amend the
16 Transportation Law.
17 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
18 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
19 bill was passed.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will call the roll on reconsideration.
22 (The Secretary called the roll on
23 reconsideration.)
6861
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 DiCarlo.
4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
5 I now offer up the following amendments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
7 received and adopted.
8 Senator DiCarlo.
9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
10 on behalf of Senator Hoblock, I wish to call up
11 bill Print 6936, recalled from the Assembly,
12 which is now at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
16 Hoblock, Senate Print 6936, an act to amend the
17 General Municipal Law.
18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
19 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
20 bill was passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll on
6862
1 reconsideration.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 DiCarlo.
5 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
6 we would now like to star the bill on behalf of
7 the sponsor.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is starred at the request of the sponsor.
10 Senator DiCarlo.
11 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
12 on behalf of Senator Libous, I wish to call up
13 bill Print Number 6899, recalled from the
14 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Libous, Senate Print 6899, an act to amend the
19 Mental Hygiene Law.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
21 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
22 bill was passed.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6863
1 will call the roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 DiCarlo.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
8 I now offer the following amendments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
10 received and adopted.
11 Senator DiCarlo.
12 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
13 on behalf of Senator Saland, I wish to call up
14 bill Print Number 6028, recalled from the
15 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
19 Saland, Senate Print 6028, an act to amend the
20 Criminal Procedure Law.
21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
22 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
23 bill was passed.
6864
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will call the roll on reconsideration.
3 (The Secretary called the roll on
4 reconsideration.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
7 I now offer the following amendments.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
9 are received and adopted.
10 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
11 on behalf of Senator Saland, I wish to call up
12 bill Print Number 6534A, recalled from the
13 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
17 Saland, Senate Print 6534A, an act to amend the
18 Criminal Procedure Law.
19 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
20 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
21 bill was passed.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
23 will call the roll on reconsideration.
6865
1 (The Secretary called the roll on
2 reconsideration.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 DiCarlo.
6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
7 I now offer the following amendments.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
9 received and adopted.
10 Senator DiCarlo.
11 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
12 on behalf of Senator Libous, I wish to call up
13 bill Print Number 7316A, recalled from the
14 Assembly, which is now at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Libous, Senate Print 7316A, an act to amend the
19 Mental Hygiene Law.
20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
21 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
22 bill was passed.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6866
1 will call the roll on reconsideration.
2 (The Secretary called the roll on
3 reconsideration.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 DiCarlo.
7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President,
8 I now offer the following amendments.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
10 are received and adopted.
11 Senator Seward.
12 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
13 President, on behalf of Senator Stafford, I wish
14 to call up Calendar Number 1277, Assembly Print
15 Number 9757.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
19 Stafford, Senate Print 3312A, an act to amend
20 the Tax Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Seward.
23 SENATOR SEWARD: I now move to
6867
1 reconsider the vote by which the Assembly bill
2 was substituted for Senator Stafford's bill,
3 Senate Print Number 3312A, on June 5th.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
5 will call the roll on reconsideration.
6 (The Secretary called the roll on
7 reconsideration.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Seward.
11 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. I now
12 move that Assembly Bill Number 9757 be
13 recommitted to the Committee on Rules and that
14 Senator Stafford's Senate bill be restored on
15 the order of Third Reading Calendar.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Assembly bill will be recommitted. The Senate
18 bill will be restored.
19 Senator Seward.
20 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. On behalf
21 of Senator LaValle, I wish to call up Calendar
22 Number 329, Assembly Print Number 5796B.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6868
1 will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: By member of the
3 Assembly Canestrari, Assembly Bill 5796B, an act
4 to amend the Civil Rights Law and the Public
5 Health Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Seward.
8 SENATOR SEWARD: I now move to
9 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill
10 was substituted for Senator LaValle's bill,
11 Senate Print Number 4293B, on April 29th.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will call the roll on reconsideration.
14 (The Secretary called the roll on
15 reconsideration.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Seward.
19 SENATOR SEWARD: I now move that
20 Assembly Bill Number 5796B be committed to the
21 Committee on Rules and that the Senate bill be
22 restored to the order of Third Reading Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6869
1 Assembly bill will be committed to the Rules
2 Committee and the Senate bill is restored.
3 Senator Seward.
4 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
5 I now offer the following amendments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 amendments are received and adopted.
8 Senator Marcellino.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
10 President, on page number 48, on behalf of
11 Senator Volker, I offer the following amendments
12 to Calendar Number 32, Senate Print Number 4262,
13 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
14 Third Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
16 to Calendar Number 32 are received and adopted.
17 The bill will retain its place -
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
19 President, would you also remove a star from
20 that bill?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 will be amended and the bill will retain its
23 place on the Third Reading Calendar and the star
6870
1 is removed at the request of the sponsor.
2 Senator Marcellino.
3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
4 President, amendments are offered to the
5 following Third Reading Calendar bills:
6 Sponsored by Senator Leibell,
7 page 4, Calendar 131, 3871, Senate Print Number;
8 Senator Holland, page number 12,
9 Calendar 529, Senate Print Number 5536B;
10 Senator Holland, page 15,
11 Calendar Number 643, Senate Print Number 6313;
12 Senator Cook, page number 24,
13 Calendar Number 926, Senate Print Number 6275;
14 Senator Rath, on page number 25,
15 Calendar 939, Senate Print Number 7153;
16 On behalf of Senator Velella, on
17 page number 26, Calendar Number 960, Print
18 Number -- Senate Print Number 6688;
19 On behalf of Senator Nozzolio,
20 page number 29, Calendar Number 1016, Senate
21 Print Number 7439;
22 On behalf of Senator Velella, on
23 page number 37, Calendar Number 1154, Senate
6871
1 Print Number 6497;
2 On behalf of Senator Hoblock, on
3 page number 37, Calendar Number 1161, Senate
4 Print Number 7083A;
5 On behalf of Senator Larkin, page
6 number 38, Calendar Number 1180, Senate Print
7 Number 5786;
8 On behalf of Senator Rath, page
9 Number 40, Calendar Number 1213, Senate Print
10 Number 6536A;
11 On behalf of Senator Present, on
12 page Number 42, Calendar 1303, Senate Print
13 Number 7028;
14 On behalf of Senator Holland,
15 page number 10, Calendar Number 452, Senate
16 Print Number 218;
17 On behalf of Senator Velella,
18 page number 26, Calendar Number 993, Senate
19 Print Number 3371B;
20 On behalf of Senator Volker, page
21 number 30 -- I'm sorry, page number 27, Calendar
22 Number 1000, Senate Print Number 1262A;
23 On behalf of Senator Maltese,
6872
1 page number 36, Calendar Number 1144, Senate
2 Print Number 4348;
3 On behalf of Senator Kuhl, page
4 number 45, Calendar Number 1332, Senate Print
5 Number 6576A;
6 On behalf of Senator Hoblock,
7 page number 38, Calendar Number 1175, Senate
8 Print Number 6916;
9 And last but not least, on behalf
10 of Senator LaValle, page Number 23, Calendar
11 Number 920, Senate Print Number 7226;
12 And, Mr. President, I now move
13 that these bills retain their place on the order
14 of third reading.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 amendments to all the bills will be received and
17 adopted, and all the bills will retain their
18 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
19 Senator Spano.
20 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you. Mr.
21 President, I understand we've got three
22 privileged resolutions at the desk. I ask that
23 the titles be read and passed.
6873
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2 Secretary will read the titles to the three
3 resolutions.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
5 Trunzo, Legislative Resolution paying tribute to
6 the New York State and Local Retirement Systems
7 and memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to
8 declare the week of June 9th through the 15th,
9 1996, as New York State and Local Retirement
10 Systems Week in the state of New York.
11 By Senator Levy, Legislative
12 Resolution in recognition of the Nassau County
13 American Legion 78th Annual Convention; and also
14 by Senator Bruno, Legislative Resolution
15 memorializing the Honorable George E. Pataki,
16 Governor of the State of New York, to proclaim
17 the week of June 10th through the 16th, 1996, as
18 New York City Firefighters' Week in the State of
19 New York.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
21 any Senator wishing to speak on any of the
22 resolutions?
23 Senator Trunzo.
6874
1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. Chairman,
2 on my resolution regarding the 75th anniversary
3 of the Retirement System, I would like to open
4 it up to all the members of the Senate that wish
5 to do so.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If those
7 members would -- Do you want to put everybody on
8 the resolution, Senator Trunzo? Why don't we
9 put everybody on the resolution being offered by
10 Senator Trunzo, except those people who do not
11 wish to be on the resolution, if they would
12 indicate that to the desk.
13 The question is then on the
14 resolutions as read.
15 All those in favor, signify by
16 saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Opposed nay.
19 (There was no response.)
20 The resolutions are adopted.
21 Senator Spano, we have four
22 substitutions at the desk.
23 SENATOR SPANO: Yes, can we
6875
1 please have the Secretary read.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the substitutions.
4 THE SECRETARY: On page 42,
5 Senator Johnson moves to discharge from the
6 Committee on Water Resources, Assembly Bill
7 Number 1465, and substitute it for the identical
8 Senate Bill Number 1019.
9 On page 43, Senator LaValle moves
10 to discharge from the Committee on Investiga
11 tions, Assembly Bill Number 7839, and substitute
12 it for the identical Senate Bill 4607.
13 On page 44, Senator Maltese moves
14 to discharge from the Committee on Rules,
15 Assembly Bill Number 9038 and substitute it for
16 the identical Senate Bill 6476.
17 On page 45, Senator Stafford
18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
19 Assembly Bill Number 9757 and substitute it for
20 the identical Senate Bill, 6744.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 substitutions are ordered.
23 Senator Spano, that brings us to
6876
1 the calendar. What's your pleasure?
2 SENATOR SPANO: Can we please go
3 to the non-controversial calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
5 Secretary will read the non-controversial
6 calendar.
7 THE SECRETARY: On page 9,
8 Calendar Number 441, by Senator Volker, Senate
9 Print 4633B, an act to amend the Civil Practice
10 Law and Rules, in relation to personal service
11 by mail.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 618, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3863B, an
6877
1 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,
2 in relation to summary judgments.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect on the first day of
7 January.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
9 the roll.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 638, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
15 Assembly Print 10463A, an act to amend the
16 Public Service Law and the General Business Law,
17 in relation to the protection of underground
18 facilities.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6878
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 767, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6388A, an
8 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
9 relation to violations involving passing a
10 stopped school bus.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 850, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7379, an
23 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
6879
1 relation to distributions of penalties.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
5 act shall take effect in 90 days.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1055, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4606A, an
14 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation
15 to discontinuing the system of title
16 registration.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect on the first day of
21 January.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
23 the roll.
6880
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1060, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6269C, an
7 act to amend the General Obligations Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
9 the bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1117, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5732A, an
12 act to amend the Family Court Act.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
14 the bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1149, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5782, an act
17 to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to
18 the investigation of accidents.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6881
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1164, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7274, an
8 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
9 relation to the service charge for distinctive
10 plates.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1170, by member of the Assembly Jacobs, Assembly
23 Print 9823A, an act to amend the Social Services
6882
1 Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
5 act shall take effect December 31st.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1239, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7577A, an
14 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
15 relation to applications for exemption from real
16 property taxes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6883
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1312, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an
6 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
7 relation to benefits for social service
8 benefits.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
11 the bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1313, substituted earlier today by member of the
14 Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print 1465, an act
15 to amend the Public Health Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
22 the bill aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6884
1 1315, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3654C, an
2 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
3 relation to authorizing issuance of distinctive
4 license plates.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
6 the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1316, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3949, an
17 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
18 relation to fingerprinting of persons.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect on the first day of
23 November.
6885
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1317, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4004, an
9 act the amend the Correction Law and the
10 Executive Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1318, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4231,
23 an act to amend the Public Health Law.
6886
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
3 that bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1319,
5 by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4518A, an act
6 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
7 preliminary hearings.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1320, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
20 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 7839, an act
21 to amend the Executive Law.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
6887
1 the bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1321, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
4 4800A, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in
5 relation to jurisdiction over navigation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1322, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5163A, an
18 act to provide additional service credit in the
19 New York City Teachers' Retirement System.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
6888
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1323, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5290A, an
9 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
10 relation to cooperative real property tax.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1324, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5299A, an
23 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
6889
1 relation to authorizing a residential parking
2 permit system.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
5 the bill aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1325, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5807, an
8 act authorizing the City of New York to reconvey
9 its interest in certain real property.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
11 is a home rule message at the desk. Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1327, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5961B, an
23 act to amend Chapter 273 of the Laws of 1939.
6890
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6 the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1328, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6214A,
13 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
14 Law, in relation to fish for free days.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
6891
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1329, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6342, an
4 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to refunds
5 for overpayment of highway use tax.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect September 1st.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1330, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6394A,
18 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
19 Law, in relation to exemptions for hazardous
20 packaging.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
6892
1 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1331, substituted earlier today, by member of
10 the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Print 9038, an
11 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
12 student aid programs for Vietnam veterans.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1333,
6893
1 by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6638B, an act to
2 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
3 to distinctive license plates.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
6 the bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1334, by Senator Espada, Senate Print 6731, an
9 act authorizing the City of New York to reconvey
10 its interest in certain real property.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Home
12 rule message is at the desk.
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1335, substituted earlier today, by member of
6894
1 the Assembly D'Andrea, Assembly Print 9757, an
2 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
3 authorizing the county of Washington.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1336, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6852, an
16 act to amend the Social Services Law, the Tax
17 Law, in relation to misuse of food stamps.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
21 act shall take effect on the first day of
22 November.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6895
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1337, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6910, an
8 act to amend the real property Tax Law, in
9 relation to remitting tax levying bodies to
10 determine the maximum amount of tax.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1338, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 6937, an
23 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation
6896
1 to airport preservation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1339, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7105, an
14 act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal
15 Procedure Law, in relation to providing for life
16 imprisonment.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
20 act shall take effect on the first day of
21 November.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
23 the roll.
6897
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1340, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7120, an
7 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
8 fixing sentences for persons committing crimes
9 while on parole.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
13 act shall take effect on the first day of
14 November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1341, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 7178, an
23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
6898
1 increasing the criminal penalties for sexual
2 performances by a child.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
6 act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1342,
15 by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7245, an act to
16 amend the Penal Law, in relation to including
17 hospital emergency department personnel.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect on the first day of
22 November.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6899
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1343, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7298A, an
8 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
9 creating a temporary task force.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1344, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7306A, an
22 act in relation to transfers of certain eligible
23 members from improved career retirement plans.
6900
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
2 is a home rule message at the desk.
3 Read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1345, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 7494, an
14 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
15 relation to providing reduced rate tokens.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Lay
18 the bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1346, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 7545, an
21 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation
22 to definition of manufactured home.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
6901
1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1347, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7560, an act
12 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
13 to making technical and clarifying changes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
23 bill is passed.
6902
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1348, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 7571,
3 an act authorizing the extension of the Geddes
4 Fire Protection District.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
6 is a home rule message at the desk.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1349, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 7621, an
18 act to amend Chapter 602 of the Laws of 1982.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
6903
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1350, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 7639, an act
8 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in
9 relation to establishing an advisory committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Spano, that concludes the
21 reading of the non-controversial calendar.
22 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President,
23 can we please proceed to the controversial
6904
1 calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Secretary will read the controversial calendar.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1060, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6269C, an
6 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in
7 relation to the use of lands for recreational
8 activities.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
10 Senator Cook, Senator Paterson has asked for an
11 explanation.
12 SENATOR COOK: Of what?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
14 Calendar 1060.
15 SENATOR COOK: Yes. Thank you.
16 Mr. President, this bill really
17 ties in with an effort to try to stabilize and
18 improve the rural economy of the state by
19 providing some additional income to landowners,
20 specifically to farmers, by giving them some
21 protection from lawsuits.
22 The problem that we have is that
23 we're finding that -
6905
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Excuse
2 me, Senator Cook. If I just might interrupt. If
3 we could please have the attention of everyone
4 in the chamber. Please take your conversations
5 outside. Staff, please be seated. Take your
6 conversations outside.
7 Senator Cook.
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
9 the problem we're having is that because of the
10 fear of legal liability, people are increas
11 ingly not letting other individuals utilize
12 their land. We find that there was an Appellate
13 Division decision in the town of Webb,
14 apparently, in 1992 that really was the basis
15 for this legislation, that this legislation
16 actually tracks that court decision, so we're
17 not cutting a lot of new ground, except to
18 clarify in statute that indeed people do have
19 this protection from lawsuits, that hopefully
20 this will encourage people to let the general
21 public utilize their land for various
22 recreational purposes, and that in the process,
23 that the economy of the entire region will be
6906
1 improved.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Senator Paterson.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you
5 very much, Mr. President.
6 If Senator Cook would be kind
7 enough to yield for a few questions.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
9 Senator Cook, would you yield for a few
10 questions?
11 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
13 Senator yields.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
15 Senator.
16 In protecting the landowners who
17 allow for recreational activity on their proper
18 ty, is there any protection in the legislation
19 for those who have restricted activity on their
20 property, such as to put a"no trespass" sign,
21 because my fear, just looking at the legisla
22 tion, just from a technical viewpoint, is that
23 there are certain types of liability that even
6907
1 if you had a sign restricting access, that you
2 would still be held to a certain standard
3 because it's not really spelled out in the
4 legislation.
5 And yet, if you allow for
6 recreational activity as opposed to the limited
7 liability that already exists in law, Senator,
8 you have now added to that to such an extent
9 that almost -- I would imagine just about any
10 activity would protect the landowner. But, my
11 question is, have you protected the landowner
12 who recognizes a higher standard and has tried
13 to restrict access to their property through"no
14 trespass" signs or any sort of barriers that
15 would indicate to individuals that there's a
16 desire not to have them move onto the property?
17 SENATOR COOK: Senator, the
18 existing law, and I think you already said that,
19 says that, "An owner, lessee, occupant of the
20 premises, whether or not posted as provided,
21 owes no duty to keep the premises safe for
22 others for," and then it says, "hunting,
23 fishing, organized gleaning," et cetera, et
6908
1 cetera, and we're simply adding the following
2 activities but not limited to, which means that
3 if somehow we forgot to add some of these -
4 some activity to the list, that people are not
5 going to be subject to lawsuits for something -
6 I don't see, for example, hiking in here, so
7 that hiking, for example, would not be a
8 protected activity which could be utilized -
9 for which the land could be utilized
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
11 Senator. Would the Senator, Mr. President,
12 yield for another question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
14 Senator Cook, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 So just to sum up briefly, the
21 landowner who takes -- who goes beyond just
22 allowing individuals on the property but
23 recognizes, perhaps, that there's a danger and
6909
1 tries to restrict it, would that landowner be
2 covered, as well?
3 SENATOR COOK: I'm sorry,
4 Senator, would you state that again?
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Certainly,
6 Senator.
7 If the landowner who has gone
8 beyond the duty that this legislation allows
9 for, in other words, allowing individuals to
10 engage in recreational activity on their
11 property, but the landowner who takes responsi
12 bility to restrict that activity on their
13 property and someone disregards a "no trespass"
14 sign and goes on the property anyway and is
15 injured, are they covered by the legislation as
16 well?
17 SENATOR COOK: They certainly
18 are because it says "whether or not posted".
19 That's the existing law, Senator.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
21 Senator Cook.
22 Mr. President, if the Senator
23 would continue to yield?
6910
1 SENATOR COOK: Yes, sir.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Cook,
3 how, after making new law in the fashion that
4 you're proposing today, would we distinguish
5 between the landowner who is acknowledging a
6 duty to keep the premises safe and those that do
7 not?
8 In other words, whatever
9 expenditure a landowner would make to try to
10 make sure that the property is safe and that
11 there can be access and an inertia of movement
12 by individuals from the outside coming across
13 the property, whether they are invited or not
14 invited, what is the difference -- what is the
15 incentive to do that when we're passing a law
16 that's basically saying, "You can hike, you can
17 walk, you can fish, you can swim, you can do
18 just about anything on the property and if there
19 is any injury or damage --" you know, obviously,
20 if a person goes in the water and slips on the
21 rocks, there's a certain assumption of the risk
22 that they took; but if a person walks across a
23 foot bridge where the wood is atrophied and
6911
1 falls in the river, you know, I would maintain
2 that a perusal of the premises might indicate
3 that the landowner should have taken some
4 remedial action and that the hazard was known to
5 everyone except a stranger that happened to be
6 on the property.
7 SENATOR COOK: Well, Senator,
8 I'm not an attorney and I do recognize that what
9 you're saying is possibly true relative to the
10 foot bridge because ironically it seems that
11 even though somebody may be on your property and
12 have no good reason to be there and they are
13 injured, that possibly you're subject to
14 lawsuit, which, of course, is one of the very
15 things that we're talking about.
16 I think, though, in regard to
17 your question, if I understood it correctly, it
18 was if we're making it the same freedom from
19 liability, whether the land is posted or not
20 posted, the issue really in posting is that you,
21 by posting the land, have -- you assert a right
22 to potentially have the person arrested for
23 trespassing.
6912
1 Now, I don't know that anybody
2 ever made that stick, but the point is, if you
3 put a sign up saying, "No hunting, fishing or
4 trespassing," and somebody insists on coming on
5 your property, you at least can order them off
6 or have someone, in an extreme case, have them
7 removed.
8 Probably you also have that
9 ability even if you don't have posted signs up
10 because it is, after all, your property; but I
11 don't think this changes the situation as it
12 relates to posting. Posting is merely a
13 notice, in a sense, saying, "You're not welcome
14 here."
15 We're trying to get rid of those
16 posted signs. We are trying to get it so that
17 when folks come into the country and they want
18 to enjoy a hike through somebody's pasture or
19 over their land, that the landowner will not
20 live in fear that that person is going to fall
21 over a rock, break their leg and sue them.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
23 President, if Senator Cook would continue to
6913
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Senator Cook, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR COOK: Yes, I will.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Senator.
8 I think you've laid out very well the purpose
9 for the bill and you probably understand a lot
10 more than I do what the -
11 SENATOR COOK: Senator, let me
12 indicate one other thing that this bill is
13 really aimed at and that is to permit a
14 nonprofit corporation, such as a soil and water
15 conservation district, for example, to organize
16 a group of landowners to develop, for example, a
17 hiking trail across several lots, and so that
18 there may be, you know, a few miles of hiking
19 trail over private land, and that the -- it also
20 protects that organization from liability, since
21 they were the one who put up the posters and
22 said, "This is a walking trail," that they will
23 not be subject to lawsuit because -- simply
6914
1 because they're the ones who marked the trail.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: I under
3 stand. Thank you, Senator.
4 That actually brings me back to a
5 question I asked earlier that perhaps I'd like
6 to be a little more specific, if, Mr. President,
7 the Senator will continue to yield.
8 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, in
12 those types of situations where you have the
13 not-for-profit corporation and you have specific
14 authorization now because you're going to build
15 a hiking trail that's going to span through a
16 few lots, for those lots in the area that are
17 not authorizing it, they don't want a hiking
18 trail through their lot. Let me be sure that
19 there is no distinction in the liability where
20 the unauthorized lot would, in a sense, become
21 liable to a lawsuit, and where there is an
22 authorized allowance for the recreational
23 activity, your bill has really eliminated the
6915
1 possibility of redress in that area.
2 SENATOR COOK: No, Senator.
3 This bill really doesn't address that point at
4 all and, therefore, it doesn't change anything,
5 anything at all.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you
7 very much, Senator Cook.
8 Mr. President, on the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
10 Senator Paterson, on the bill.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
12 President, the problem that we see with the
13 legislation, even though its intent is certainly
14 one that would probably make life a little bit
15 easier, not only for the individuals who are
16 engaging in recreational activities, but even
17 for the landowners themselves. The problem is
18 that we feel that it, in some -- to some degree,
19 impedes on pre-existing law in the sense that
20 tort liability is kind of a specific standard
21 and it relates to specific types of scenarios.
22 So, there are some where if a
23 person, you know, falls over a rock, something
6916
1 like that, there's kind of an assumption of the
2 risk that when you're climbing on rocks, you
3 might fall over one, and there's a test of a
4 reasonable standard as to whether or not the
5 landowner would be liable.
6 But in certain situations where
7 the landowner has not kept up the property to
8 such an extent, they have not, in a sense,
9 caused a hazard or some kind of an encumbrance
10 to the passerby, we feel there should still be
11 some protection under the law for individuals
12 who are met with the misfortune of suffering an
13 injury in those situations caused by those
14 obstacles.
15 And so what we're recommending is
16 that -- Senator Cook is really on the right
17 track, it's just in my opinion, the train has
18 gone too far. We're protecting all landowners
19 to such an extent that almost anything can be
20 deemed a recreational activity and that's where
21 we feel that the bill, in a sense, is going to
22 work against an individual who is harmed who has
23 a legitimate lawsuit for a legitimate purpose.
6917
1 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
3 Senator Cook.
4 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President,
5 the state of New York owns hundreds of
6 thousands, perhaps even millions of acres, I'm
7 not sure what it is, of public lands.
8 The state of New York assumes no
9 responsibility if anyone enters those lands and
10 is injured. And, yet, the same activity, if
11 someone actually enters on private land, can
12 subject the landowner to a lawsuit, and that's a
13 reason why people have increasingly been putting
14 up those posted signs which say,"You're not
15 welcome here," and, in effect, reenforce, if you
16 will, the very point that there is no liability
17 because if the owner did not invite you there,
18 the owner owes no obligation to you.
19 This bill goes one step further,
20 however, and says that in the lifetime of many
21 of us, we are used to a time when we used to
22 walk for miles across various parcels of private
23 land with no concern about an injury or suing
6918
1 anyone because it was taken for granted that if
2 you were injured while you were on that land, it
3 was your problem.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
5 Excuse me, Senator. Let me apologize for the
6 interruption.
7 Senators, would you please show
8 some respect to your colleague and listen while
9 Senators are speaking, And those staff members
10 or non-Senators, please take your conversations
11 outside.
12 Senator Cook.
13 SENATOR COOK: What this bill is
14 attempting to do, then, is to, if you will,
15 revert back to the situation where if a person
16 wishes to cooperate with the extension service
17 or soil and water conservation district or
18 whoever, maybe a quasi-public entity that will,
19 in effect, set up a series of parcels of land
20 where people can utilize it for recreational
21 purposes, that you protect those landowners in
22 the same way that the state of New York is
23 protected if people are utilizing public land.
6919
1 It simply puts private land into
2 the same category, if you will, of liability as
3 would public land be placed.
4 So, it doesn't really expand or
5 contract, in my opinion, the present law, except
6 to the degree that we do say that, Okay, you
7 can't sue the landowner, but since the soil and
8 water conservation district put up a sign that
9 says that this is a hiking trail, that you can
10 sue them because their name is on it.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
12 Senator Dollinger.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would
14 Senator Cook yield to just a couple questions?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
16 Senator Cook, would you yield to a question?
17 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: First, just
19 two housekeeping questions. Do I understand
20 this is the "C" print of the bill that we did
21 last year?
22 SENATOR COOK: It's the "C"
23 print.
6920
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And this
2 doesn't include the provision that would allow
3 attorneys' fees to transfer, that has been
4 deleted from the bill, is that -
5 SENATOR COOK: We've taken that
6 out.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A second
8 cleanup question: What does the term "speleo
9 logical" refer to?
10 SENATOR COOK: I believe that's
11 caves.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Exploration
13 of caves?
14 SENATOR COOK: Exploration of
15 caves. I hadn't seen the term before.
16 One final question, through you,
17 Mr. President.
18 The example that's used in
19 opposition to this bill says what happens if
20 someone is walking across unposted land, which
21 they are trying to take advantage of this
22 section of the General Obligations Law, what
23 happens if an individual, while having
6921
1 permission to be on the land, walks across a
2 small foot bridge which is rotted out and they
3 fall through the foot bridge? Under this bill,
4 would that person have a right of action against
5 the landowner, assuming that the landowner knew
6 that the bridge had been there, hadn't been
7 repaired for the better part of a decade and
8 might be in disrepair; or would that individual
9 have no claim whatsoever?
10 SENATOR COOK: Senator, I
11 believe when you're talking about improvements
12 to property, you've created a different set of
13 tort possibilities than would exist if it were
14 not an improved piece of land. In other words,
15 if I say, "You may walk across my property,"
16 that's one thing; but, as I understand it, as
17 soon as I put a foot bridge in place that I've
18 actually constructed, that becomes a liability
19 issue that's different from simply hiking across
20 open lands.
21 So, I don't think that -- I guess
22 my real answer to your question is this would
23 not change the law in regard to the foot bridge,
6922
1 whatever that law might be at the present time.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. And
3 again, through you, Mr. President, if I could
4 just have a clarification, what is there in the
5 bill that says that?
6 SENATOR COOK: Pardon?
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is
8 there in the bill, the language of the bill,
9 that actually says that? I'm just trying to
10 make sure it -
11 SENATOR COOK: There is nothing
12 in the bill, Senator, and that's why I defer to
13 your expertise as an attorney. If you were to
14 be representing someone who is injured on a
15 piece of private property, referring to the
16 Appellate Division decision relative to section
17 99-103 of the General Obligations Law, you would
18 expect to meet that as a defense against what I
19 said about earlier, falling over a rock and
20 breaking your leg; but that would be different
21 than falling through a foot bridge and breaking
22 your leg because I'm not sure that was addressed
23 in that decision, the foot bridge having been
6923
1 something that was constructed on the property
2 as opposed to the rock that was put there by you
3 decide who.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the
5 bill briefly, Mr. President.
6 I appreciate Senator Cook's
7 differentiation between those two types of
8 liablity, one that flows from the naturally
9 occurring part of the land, the other that would
10 flow from the improved portion of the land.
11 I'm going to vote against this
12 bill because I'm not clear in my own mind
13 whether that differentiation is made here; and
14 although I have been involved in lawsuits
15 involving landowner liability, I'm not quite
16 sure that the differentiation that Senator Cook
17 described is actually present and currently a
18 part of our law.
19 So, because of that lack of
20 clarity on my part, I will be voting against
21 this bill. I understand the measure. I think
22 broadening and opening public lands has a
23 benefit. I'm concerned about cutting off
6924
1 people's access to redress in the event that
2 something happens on a piece of land while
3 they're walking there and the landowner has in
4 some way created an assurance and in some way
5 created a sense on the part of the person on the
6 land that this is somehow going to be safe and
7 it turns out not to be safe.
8 So, for that reason, Mr.
9 President, I'll be voting in the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect in 30 days.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
18 in the negative on Calendar Number 1060:
19 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger and Paterson.
20 Ayes 50, nays 4.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 Senator Spano -- Senator
6925
1 Stafford.
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr.
3 President, could we please call an immediate
4 meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
7 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
8 Committee in Room 332.
9 Senator Spano.
10 SENATOR SPANO: Can we return to
11 reports of standing committees? I believe there
12 is a report of the Rules Committee at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Yes,
14 there is, Senator.
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
17 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
18 following bills:
19 Senate Print 5590A, Budget Bill,
20 an act making appropriations for the support of
21 government (Education, Labor and Social Services
22 Budget);
23 5591A, Budget Bill, an act making
6926
1 appropriations for the support of government
2 (Public protection, health and mental hygiene
3 budget);
4 5592A, Budget Bill, an act making
5 appropriations for the support of government;
6 5593A, Budget Bill, an act making
7 appropriations for the support of government
8 (General government budget);
9 5595A, Budget Bill, an act making
10 appropriations for the support of government
11 (Legislature and Judiciary budget);
12 7714, by the Senate Committee on
13 Rules, an act to amend the Public Authorities
14 Law, in relation to the issuance of bonds;
15 7723, by the Senate Committee on
16 Rules, an act in relation to certain provisions
17 which impact upon the expenditure of certain
18 appropriations;
19 7724, by the Senate Committee on
20 Rules, an act in relation to certain provisions;
21 7725, by the Senate Committee on
22 Rules, an act in relation to certain provisions
23 which impact upon the expenditures of certain
6927
1 appropriations;
2 7733, by the Senate Committee on
3 Rules, an act in relation to certain provisions
4 which impact upon the expenditure of certain
5 appropriations;
6 Senate Print 2238A, by Senator
7 Padavan, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
8 Law;
9 2278, by Senator Hoblock, an act
10 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to excluding
11 from an employer's experience rating charge, the
12 voluntary separation;
13 2586, by Senator Velella, an act
14 to amend Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1975;
15 2743A, by Senator Leibell, an act
16 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
17 increasing the penalty for endangering the
18 welfare of a child;
19 2835C, by Senator DiCarlo, an act
20 to amend the Civil Service Law and the Civil
21 Practice Law and Rules, in relation to notice of
22 claim in Article 78;
23 3538A, by Senator Stafford, an
6928
1 act to amend the Soil and Water Conservation
2 Districts Law;
3 3891, by Senator Hoblock, an act
4 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to providing
5 for eligibility;
6 4160B, by Senator Marchi, an act
7 authorizing the city of New York to release its
8 interest in certain real property;
9 4672C, by Senator Tully, an act
10 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in
11 relation to the leasing of state-owned lands;
12 5749, by Senator Smith, an act
13 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
14 interest in certain real property.
15 5806, by Senator Marchi, an act
16 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
17 interest in certain real property;
18 5827, by Senator Maltese, an act
19 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
20 interest in certain real property;
21 5908, by Senator Present, an act
22 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to antique
23 slot machines;
6929
1 6058, by Senator Babbush, an act
2 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
3 interest in certain real property;
4 6185A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
5 act to amend the Parks, Recreation and Historic
6 Preservation Law, in relation to the powers of
7 the commissioner;
8 6483, by Senator Spano, an act to
9 amend the Labor Law, in relation to the transfer
10 of employee accounts;
11 6540, by Senator Volker, an act
12 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to the
13 entry of arrest warrants;
14 6575, by Senator Spano, an act to
15 amend the Labor Law, the Tax Law and the
16 Administrative Code of the city of New York;
17 6611A, by Senator DiCarlo, an act
18 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
19 making the Elderly Pharmaceutical Insurance
20 Coverage program permanent;
21 6618, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
22 to amend the Corrections Law, in relation to the
23 retaking of absconders;
6930
1 6648, by Senator Farley, an act
2 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,
3 in relation to clarifying eligibility
4 requirements;
5 6715, by Senator Wright, an act
6 authorizing the Commissioner of Parks,
7 Recreation and Historic Preservation to transfer
8 and convey certain state owned lands;
9 7091, by Senator Larkin, an act to amend
10 the General Municipal Law, in relation to
11 environmental facilities;
12 7158, by Senator Maltese, an act
13 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
14 interest in certain real property;
15 7194A, by Senator Seward, an act
16 to amend Chapter 366 of the Laws of 1994;
17 7242, by Senator Saland, an act
18 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
19 relation to authorizing a permit parking system;
20 7248, by Senator Saland, an act
21 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
22 disqualification from unemployment compensation
23 benefits;
6931
1 7303A, by Senator Skelos, an act
2 to amend the General Municipal Law and the
3 General Obligations Law, in relation to the
4 scope of the cause;
5 7328A, by Senator Marcellino, an
6 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
7 in relation to establishment and publication of
8 guidance memoranda;
9 7355A, by Senator Marcellino, an
10 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
11 in relation to requirements under the federal
12 Clean Air Act;
13 7376B, by Senator Larkin, an act
14 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
15 to bell jar game regulation;
16 7423A, by Senator Volker, an act
17 relating to permitting nonbargaining units,
18 salaried employees;
19 7465, by Senator Marchi, an act
20 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its
21 interests in certain real property;
22 7472A, by Senator Volker, an act
23 to amend the Town Law, in relation to absentee
6932
1 ballots;
2 7518, by Senator Spano, an act to
3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
4 to establishing a residential parking system;
5 7535, by Senator Marchi, an act
6 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
7 to waivers of tax credits.
8 7623, by Senator Hoblock, an act
9 authorizing the city of Albany to lease a
10 portion of a city park to a non-for-profit
11 corporation;
12 7631, by Senator Hoblock, an act
13 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Family
14 Court Act, and the Penal Law;
15 And 7721, by the Senate Committee
16 on Rules, an act to amend the Racing, Pari
17 Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.
18 All bills ordered directly for
19 third reading.
20 Senator Spano.
21 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, I
22 move we accept the report of the Rules
23 Committee.
6933
1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: All
2 in favor of accepting the report of the Rules
3 Committee, signify by saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The report is accepted.
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
10 thank you.
11 Mr. President, we adopted a
12 resolution recognizing the New York City
13 firefighters. Many of them are here with us in
14 this chamber, and I was out of the chamber at
15 the time, doing some other things that are
16 preoccupying us during this lack-of-budget
17 session.
18 But, I wanted to come into the
19 chamber to just say a word to thank these fire
20 fighters that are here representing all the
21 others that can't be here. They protect
22 people, their lives, their properties, put their
23 own lives, their own health on the line. Many
6934
1 of them have lost their lives, literally, as
2 they do what they can do on behalf of the
3 public.
4 So, we in this chamber recognize
5 all the good things that you do for the people
6 of the City and, consequently, for the people of
7 this state; and we recognize that it takes
8 courage and it takes endurance and it takes
9 stamina, but most of all, it takes a heart that
10 goes out to people as you respond to over 90,000
11 fires in a year.
12 Now, that's hard for us to
13 comprehend; and when a firefighter goes in, they
14 don't know what to expect and no matter how much
15 you reherse and practice, when you're at a fire
16 and those of us that get near a fire to watch
17 the awesome power that is in a fire as it's
18 raging out of control, it takes a special kind
19 of person to be there on behalf of the people
20 that they protect.
21 So, I want to say thank you to
22 the firefighters that are here, thank all of
23 your colleagues that can't be here, and we
6935
1 salute you and thank you for all the good things
2 that you do for the people of this state.
3 My colleagues, I would give an
4 ovation and a standing ovation to our friends,
5 the New York City firefighters.
6 (Standing ovation.)
7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
9 Senator Bruno.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: I believe there
11 is a report from the Finance Committee at the
12 desk. Can we have the report read. I'd move
13 its adoption.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There
15 is a report. The Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
17 from the Committee on Finance, offers up the
18 following bills:
19 Senate Bill 7737, by the Senate
20 Committee on Rules, an act making appropriations
21 for the support of government;
22 And 7743, by the Senate Committee
23 on Rules, an act making an appropriation for the
6936
1 support of government. Both bills directly for
2 third reading.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
4 Without objections, all bills are reported to
5 third reading.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this
10 time take up Calendar Number 1351.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: That
12 is on Supplemental 1, Calendar 1351.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1351, Senate Print 5590-A, Budget Bill, an act
16 making appropriations for the support of
17 government, Education, Labor and Social Services
18 Budget.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO:
21 Senator Bruno, an explanation has been asked
22 for.
23 Senator Bruno.
6937
1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Excuse
3 me, Senator Bruno. Could we please have some
4 quiet in the chamber. Have the Sergeant-at-arms
5 please close the doors to cut down on the
6 sound.
7 Senator Bruno.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
9 approximately a year ago, a little shorter than
10 a year ago, we passed a budget in this chamber,
11 and that budget changed the direction for the
12 people of this state from the declining years of
13 the previous decade to moving this state
14 forward, where we went in one year, from 50th in
15 this country in job creation, leading the
16 country in job losses, to 6th in the country in
17 job creation, creating over 100,000 new jobs.
18 What did we do? We cut spending less than the
19 previous year, first time in 51 years. We cut
20 taxes. We cut government regulations.
21 This, Mr. President, is the first
22 of the Senate's budget package, and we will
23 present this afternoon a complete package of
6938
1 budget bills, and I emphasize that this will be
2 a completed budget. Why do we do this? Because
3 we now have a new record for a late budget.
4 We have been doing everything
5 that we can to move the process forward, and we
6 want to encourage others that are involved in
7 the process, the Assembly and the Executive, to
8 join with us in going forward in getting a
9 budget in place for the people of this state,
10 but this budget is not just a one-house budget.
11 This is a budget that we are willing to see
12 become the budget for this state. Why? Because
13 it carries forward all of the good things that
14 the Pataki administration, with we as partners
15 -- and I emphasize "we" -- in this chamber,
16 partnered with this governor in moving this
17 state forward from the losing ways of the past
18 to the winning ways that we now enjoy.
19 What does this budget do
20 generally? It cuts spending, again, second year
21 in 52 years over the previous year by about $357
22 million in the general fund, and we have
23 significant tax cuts to help stimulate and help
6939
1 move this economy forward.
2 Tax cuts first year are 90
3 million growing to about $1 billion in tax
4 relief for the people of this state over the
5 next four years, and these tax cuts start with
6 repealing what has been referred to infamously
7 as "the Cuomo tax", the Cuomo taxes on
8 properties, over a million, a surcharge of ten
9 percent.
10 Since that -- and I know that you
11 want to know this -- that since that tax went
12 into effect 12 years ago, we are the only state
13 in the United States that has this tax in
14 effect. You know why? Because when it went
15 into effect, the revenue from the sale of real
16 estate over a million to the people of this
17 state was about $800 million.
18 Last year, the revenue had
19 dropped to about $100 million. You don't have
20 to be a rocket scientist to know that if your
21 revenue is dropping from 800 million to 100
22 million over 11 years, you have done something
23 wrong, and we have done a lot wrong. We've got
6940
1 to fix it.
2 This budget takes the Cuomo tax
3 off the books. And what will the result be? An
4 independent study that was done shows -- and
5 those of you from the City ought to recognize
6 this -- $200 million in revenue to the City with
7 a repeal of this tax. The mayor is screaming
8 literally in anguish over a budget deficit.
9 This moves approximately $215 million to the
10 City directly. Why? Because about $7.7 billion
11 of property will be transferred that people have
12 been doing everything but transferring title to
13 avoid the tax. 7,000 new jobs created. So you
14 make your own judgments on how you relate to
15 that, but what I share with you is that we have
16 done a lot of damage to the people of this state
17 with that tax staying on the books. It's time
18 for that to go.
19 You know what the net impact is
20 according to this independent study? You're
21 going to ask me so I'm going to tell you. The
22 net impact to the state is something in the
23 neighborhood of $15 million, 25 to 15 million
6941
1 going down to 11-. It's of no consequence in a
2 $64 billion budget. When it drives 200 million
3 into the City, that is money that we at the
4 state won't have to put into the City, so it's a
5 net gain to the state of about 175 million as
6 relates to what we're doing.
7 We also phase out the gross
8 receipts tax on utilities which I don't have to
9 go into what the cost of utilities have been
10 doing to businesses in this state. They have
11 been leaving the state. They have been
12 inhibited in their growth and we have to start
13 phasing out the gross receipts tax.
14 We're reducing the estate taxes
15 through this budget. Why? People move to other
16 states to pass their estates because someone can
17 be in Florida when they pass away, their heirs
18 will inherit much more than they would if they
19 stayed in New York. So we have to conform to
20 the federal standards. We start moving in that
21 direction.
22 We put a petroleum business tax
23 on diesel and other fuels, and we have been
6942
1 gouging the public. We have been gouging
2 businesses. We have been putting them at a
3 disadvantage. People have been buying in other
4 states to avoid buying in New York. This puts
5 us on an equal footing.
6 There are eight or ten other
7 taxes that we affect in this budget: Sales
8 taxes, sales taxes on municipal parking, bus
9 rides, going to circuses, coin-operated car
10 washes, the hot dog tax so-called and vending
11 machines. This takes all of those taxes off the
12 books. Why? Because they're inhibitors to
13 business, and by getting them off the books will
14 help businesses, will create jobs.
15 It also addresses the high
16 property taxes in this state. We, through this
17 program, freeze property taxes. We offer a
18 program for school districts. Freeze property
19 taxes. Total tax relief fully implemented about
20 885 million, and you hear like I hear that the
21 biggest problem that people have in this state
22 are the high property taxes. Seniors can't stay
23 in their homes because they can't afford
6943
1 escalating taxes. We do something about that in
2 this budget.
3 We also -- recognizing that
4 education is a priority, priority for you,
5 priority for us, this restores about 385 million
6 in cuts that were made to school districts.
7 Why? Who asked me why? Why? Because if we
8 don't, property taxes are going to go up again
9 because there are mandates to school districts
10 and they will have to increase property taxes to
11 pay for the school aid.
12 It has $40 million in distress
13 city aid. There are cities that are on the
14 brink of bankruptcy, financial disasters. We
15 help those cities. It restores about 105
16 million to SUNY and CUNY, restorations that we
17 think are critically important.
18 Welfare in this state is
19 something that's talked about a lot. We reform
20 welfare in this budget. It saves the taxpayers
21 of this state about $88 million, but it isn't
22 the 88 million that's important for us. The
23 programs that help people give them incentive to
6944
1 get off welfare, that's what's important. What
2 we did last year took over 170,000 people off of
3 welfare in New York, 35- or 36,000 people into
4 Workfare and off welfare, based on what we did
5 last year.
6 We set through this budget a
7 60-day time limit on home relief benefits, 26
8 percent home relief grant reduction, and a five
9 percent grant reduction in the AFDC benefits.
10 Now, you might wonder if we're
11 cutting welfare income, how does that help? We
12 have incentives to get people off welfare with
13 the programs that started last year, and all of
14 us in this chamber know that if a person earns
15 what they bring to the family for themselves
16 increases their pride, makes them feel good
17 about themselves. I don't believe there are
18 many people that want to stay in a welfare state
19 where their children are learning the wrong
20 lessons. So we think that this offers the
21 property incentives and opportunities to get
22 people off welfare and into real jobs because we
23 stimulate the economy with this budget. We
6945
1 create jobs with this budget. We put people to
2 work with this budget. We continue the good
3 things that started last year that we were all
4 partners in, and it restores almost $9 million
5 to law enforcement.
6 It has reforms for the criminal
7 justice system, the sentencing reform having to
8 do with violent felons. Crime -- violent crime
9 is down in this state primarily with the work we
10 did with this Governor last year. About
11 two-thirds of all the violent felonies in this
12 state happen with repeat offenders. It stands
13 to reason if you let violent felons out of jail
14 and two-thirds of them end up back in jail after
15 they hurt somebody again, that if you keep them
16 in jail longer, let them serve their sentences,
17 those people while they're incarcerated can't be
18 hurting people on the streets. So the program
19 has been working. So we continue that, and we
20 also restore money in mental health which we
21 think is critical to keeping the programs that
22 are necessary going on behalf of the people of
23 this state.
6946
1 Again, I'm going to conclude my
2 remarks by reminding people in this chamber,
3 this is not a partisan act. What I have
4 reviewed with you is a complete and whole
5 budget, and we invite our colleagues to join in
6 this budget and stay focused on the bottom line.
7 This budget restores about 900
8 million -- 900-plus million to the Governor's
9 budget in sensitive places. Does the Governor
10 totally embrace this budget? No. Does the
11 Speaker of the Assembly totally embrace this
12 budget? No. But is this the kind of budget
13 that will do the best that can be done on behalf
14 of the people of this state? We think so, and
15 that's why we advance this for your
16 consideration, for your debate, and I would
17 encourage you to be objective, stay with the
18 program. Let's minimize the partisanship
19 because this is not a partisan issue. This is
20 an issue of putting something in place that we
21 will be behind that represents a budget for the
22 people of this state and we're long overdue in
23 passing a budget on behalf of the people of this
6947
1 state.
2 Thank you, Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Connor.
5 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Madam
6 President.
7 Madam President, I do believe
8 Senator Bruno is sincere when he says this is
9 the best possible budget for the people of the
10 state of New York, although I have this feeling
11 that in a week or two, he will stand up with
12 hopefully a different budget and say, "No, this
13 is the best budget for the people of the state
14 of New York."
15 Early in this budget process,
16 Madam President, the Senate Democrats put forth
17 a set of values and urged that any budget that
18 be adopted reflect those values. They're
19 fundamental New York values, Madam President.
20 They deal with providing for the future with our
21 children and their opportunity for education,
22 for higher education. They deal with today
23 economic security for our work force. They deal
6948
1 with things like training grants and retraining
2 grants for workers.
3 Now, I know Senator Bruno has
4 said we now have more people working than we did
5 a year ago but, Madam President, part-time work
6 with no benefits, two or three part-time jobs
7 with no benefits, unfortunately, has appeared to
8 be, to many people in the last year or two, to
9 be the wave of the future.
10 We put forth a value that we
11 ought to take funds and dedicate them to
12 corporations by way of tax credits for the
13 retraining of workers rather than layoffs.
14 In looking at the whole area of
15 taxes -- and we had a debate on this a couple
16 weeks ago where we put forth amendments -- while
17 we agreed with many of Senator Bruno's
18 proposals, we thought there were better taxes to
19 focus on, both for creating jobs and protecting
20 middle class homeowners. So we felt that
21 protecting the property tax was very, very
22 important. Indeed, if you look at the
23 Governor's proposal, the whole series of block
6949
1 grants would have had a devastating impact on
2 localities and counties throughout this state
3 and would have, in fact, continued the Pataki
4 pattern of shifting responsibility to localities
5 that has resulted in the kind of local property
6 tax increases that are documented to have
7 occurred in the last year and a half and, of
8 course, we urge responsibility for protecting
9 seniors, the disabled and protecting health care
10 for all New Yorkers and responsible government,
11 where in any program -- in any of government's
12 programs, we weed out fraud and abuse. We
13 eliminate partisan political patronage concerns,
14 whether it's geographic patronage or just having
15 wasteful entities as a place to bury partisan
16 appointees and, of course, we call for budget
17 reform and debt reform, and as we have this
18 debate today, I'm sure a number of my colleagues
19 will come forward and offer amendments to these
20 budget bills that will demonstrate adherence to
21 these values in a consistent way, in a way that
22 serves best the interest of all New Yorkers.
23 Now, Madam President, a year ago,
6950
1 we heard a song sung on the other side of the
2 aisle, everybody seemed to want to drink of the
3 Pataki cup in terms of budget. Today we have a
4 proposal to put forth -- you know, it's -
5 remember when Coke was countered by 7-up, I
6 guess it was, "the Un-Cola"? Now I think we
7 have 900 million up on Pataki. It's the
8 "un-Pataki" budget.
9 There's an admission here.
10 There's an admission on the part of the
11 Republicans in the New York State Senate that
12 the Pataki budget certainly as proposed in
13 December and amended in January was woefully
14 inadequate to meet the needs of New Yorkers and
15 to reflect the values that New Yorkers care
16 about, be it education, health care or safety in
17 the fight against crime, and the Governor upped
18 the ante $1 billion in March. Did this Senate
19 act by April 1st to do a one-house budget? No.
20 A dilemma -- a dilemma because even that budget,
21 $1 billion more than the Governor first
22 proposed, it seems the Senate Republicans, the
23 party who have cast aspersions for many years at
6951
1 others as wanting to spend more and more, felt
2 they needed more spending, and I don't know
3 whether it's the difference between an odd
4 numbered year or an even numbered year, or if
5 they've seen the light about the misguided
6 policies put forth by the Governor, the kind of
7 cuts that do transfer real costs to local
8 government that pressure middle class families
9 because they lose -- they lose things like an
10 opportunity for their children to have a higher
11 education in a public system that they can
12 afford and their property taxes go sky high and
13 jeopardize the very homes they live in.
14 Whatever it be, we hear a
15 different song now. We see the Senate
16 Republicans saying, in effect -- and that's the
17 real story. Isn't the real story here today
18 that the Senate Republicans want to spend $900
19 million more than the Governor put forth in
20 March? Who's the big spenders? I don't know.
21 Senator Bruno, in all candor, said the Governor
22 doesn't accept this budget. The Speaker doesn't
23 accept this budget. It's a one-house budget.
6952
1 Frankly, as I look through these
2 bills -- and there are a number of budget bills
3 here and they stack quite high -- I can find
4 something in every one of these bills, sometimes
5 more than one thing, that I like. I like some
6 of the things that Senator Bruno outlined, and
7 there's something good in every one of these
8 bills but, you know, there's some things in
9 these bills, Madam President, that I don't like,
10 some things that don't meet the needs of New
11 Yorkers because they don't reflect our
12 fundamental values about preserving jobs for the
13 middle class, about rewarding work, about
14 creating jobs, about providing a future for our
15 children.
16 Now, in the ordinary course, were
17 this an agreed-upon budget, I would view it
18 through a different pair of glasses. I would
19 focus on the half of the cup that's full, and we
20 do that every year in all candor. Oh, an
21 agreed-upon budget? It's the best we can do.
22 Look at all the good things in it. Look at the
23 half filled cup, but this is a one-house
6953
1 exercise, a one-house, not even partisan, not if
2 the Governor and the Majority in this house all
3 belong to the same party -- although looking
4 around this house, reading the papers in the
5 last few weeks, maybe there are two Republican
6 parties out there. I see a lot of charges
7 flying back and forth involving some of the
8 highest elected officials in this state and in
9 this country. Be that as it may, if they
10 repealed the Eleventh Commandment of the
11 Republican Party, this budget certainly
12 indicates there may be two Republican parties in
13 this very Capitol, but it's a one-house budget,
14 and I can't help looking at the half of the cup
15 that's empty, and when it's a one-house budget
16 and I look at all the things that aren't in this
17 budget or all the things that are in this budget
18 that I don't like, I say why not vote against
19 it? Why not vote against it? It's not a final
20 product. Why give a stamp of approval to a half
21 finished work that does leave much to be
22 desired?
23 Therefore, I intend to vote
6954
1 against these bills, but I intend to support
2 amendments that reflect the values that I have
3 articulated that my Senate Democratic colleagues
4 have put forth during this budget process,
5 because until we get away from the partisan
6 bickering that has made this budget a record
7 late budget -- indeed, the record has been
8 broken and here we are today in the last week of
9 session dealing with a one-house budget that's
10 going nowhere, that the Republican Governor
11 doesn't support, that the Democratic Speaker
12 doesn't support, here we are getting ready to go
13 home for the summer without a real budget, a
14 real budget.
15 So we have to put aside that kind
16 of partisan bickering, the kind of accounting
17 that says, Oh, we're spending a little less and
18 we're spending more. He wants to spend more. I
19 want to spend less. This year it's very
20 confusing. The Governor wants to spend less.
21 The Republicans in the Senate want to spend
22 more, far more than the Governor, their
23 governor, and they're even putting it out here
6955
1 for a vote on a one-house basis.
2 Unless we get away from that and
3 look at New Yorkers' needs, look at the kind of
4 values that New Yorkers always upheld, unless we
5 look to the future, unless we look to job
6 security for middle class working people and
7 unless we figure out how to provide jobs for
8 those who want to work and can't find work, we
9 have failed to live up to the kind of values we
10 ought to espouse.
11 Therefore, Madam President, I
12 would urge all of my colleagues to support the
13 amendments that will be put forth here and
14 should they fail -- should they fail because the
15 Senate wing of the Republican Party, the
16 "un-Pataki" wing, votes down these amendments,
17 then I would urge that we vote against this at
18 best half-finished product.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
20 Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Madam
22 President, would Senator Bruno yield to a
23 question or two?
6956
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
2 Bruno, would you yield to Senator Gold for a
3 question?
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
5 President -- Madam President.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Bruno, you
7 indicated that you thought that the elimination
8 of the luxury sales tax -- which on a partisan
9 basis, of course, you like to call "the Cuomo
10 tax" -- would mean about $200 million for the
11 city of New York.
12 Senator, is there anything in
13 your proposal that has any kind of hold harmless
14 to the City on that? I mean, you're asking us
15 to vote for this and say that we're going to
16 give our Republican -- I'm sorry -- we're going
17 to give our mayor a $200 million hit to help him
18 fill a budget and you've also said that
19 eliminating this tax means a huge number of
20 jobs. Well, if we're wrong, Senator -- I know
21 we've done this with other taxes before where we
22 have been wrong -- wouldn't it be nice to at
23 least give him that cushion? You said it very
6957
1 confidently -- and you're a man who I know means
2 what he says. Is there anything in the bill
3 that gives the City that cushion if we turn out
4 to be wrong?
5 SENATOR BRUNO: No, there is no
6 guarantee, but we did the best that we could to
7 make sure that what we're talking about is
8 accurate. We used the Wharton School of Finance
9 -- or that's the institution that was used, and
10 they objectively had compiled the information
11 that I'm sharing with you. It stands to reason
12 to me and common sense would dictate that if
13 people are not transferring property because of
14 that tax that they would have to pay -- and we
15 all know that that's the case because you can
16 look at the records in the transfers of title -
17 that if you lift that inhibition, that there's
18 going to be activity and that activity will
19 create taxes for the City. That, to me, is
20 common sense.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
22 yield to another question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6958
1 Bruno, will you yield?
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
3 President.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, of
5 course, everybody also knows that over the last
6 11 years, real estate values have not
7 skyrocketed the way they did in prior years and
8 maybe that's the reason why people haven't sold,
9 but on another issue, you said that your -- this
10 first budget bill restores -- I think that was
11 your word -- $385 million for education. By
12 restoring, you're actually saying that we are
13 going to spend, if we pass your budget, 385
14 million more dollars, more spending for
15 education than the Governor's proposal, is that
16 correct?
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Those are
18 approximate numbers, yes, Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: And having said
20 that, Senator, I think you said that if we don't
21 do that, property taxes would go up.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, that's the
23 history. When we deny school aid, municipali
6959
1 ties are locked in and they have one place to
2 raise their budgets and that's with property
3 taxes in their school districts. So that's
4 usually the consequence.
5 SENATOR GOLD: So if I understand
6 it, Senator Bruno, the budget as proposed by
7 Governor Pataki, if not addressed in this area,
8 would have unquestionably meant increases in
9 local property taxes, is that correct?
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, that is a
11 district-by-district judgment to be made, but
12 that we feel that it would have that kind of an
13 effect.
14 SENATOR GOLD: And, Senator, in
15 terms of the -- I think you said $106 million -
16 again -- restoration to CUNY and SUNY -
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
18 SENATOR GOLD: -- is it your
19 statement that if we did not make that
20 restoration and we passed the budget as proposed
21 by the Governor, it would be a disaster for
22 those two university systems?
23 SENATOR BRUNO: No. We don't
6960
1 think it would be a disaster. We think that it
2 might necessitate some adjustments and some of
3 them would be very difficult adjustments, and I
4 believe the original cuts were in the neighbor
5 hood of 270 million, give or take 10 million,
6 and we think that some cuts are warranted, but
7 we don't think it would be a disaster, but we
8 think that we're trying to transition the system
9 into where they ought to be.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
11 Madam President, on the bill, and
12 just for the -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: On the
14 bill.
15 SENATOR GOLD: My understanding,
16 we are now -- while Senator Bruno and Senator
17 Connor made general comments, I believe we're on
18 5590-A, is that correct?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: That's
20 correct.
21 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Madam
22 President, I -- I think first of all that the
23 remarks of Senator Bruno are a complete
6961
1 vindication for everybody in this chamber and
2 everybody in the Assembly for not passing the
3 Governor's budget. So if we do nothing else, at
4 least let's congratulate ourselves that we saved
5 the people of the state from the disasters of
6 the budget. The Governor submitted a budget in
7 December. He amended it in January, and this
8 budget offered today, if nothing else, indicates
9 that if we had passed that budget in January, we
10 would have wreaked disaster upon the people of
11 this state.
12 The Governor, who is a good
13 person, apparently got some religion in March
14 and he added another billion dollars into this
15 budget. Today's offering by the Republican
16 Majority in this house is a vindication of
17 everyone in this house for not passing the new
18 budget of the Governor in March because the bill
19 offered by the Republicans today with its
20 additional -- almost $1 billion in additional
21 spending shows what a disaster upon the people
22 of this state the Governor's budget would have
23 been.
6962
1 Now, I am not suggesting at any
2 point that the Governor is evil -- he is not -
3 that the Governor is mean because he's not, but
4 let's call it the way it is. If the budget had
5 been passed and we walked downstairs and said,
6 "Governor, here it is", we would have caused
7 disaster throughout this state, and most of you
8 from upstate New York would have been faced with
9 huge outcries because of increases in local
10 property taxes as Senator Bruno acknowledges,
11 and in the city of New York and in some of the
12 other cities throughout the state, we would have
13 been faced with total disaster.
14 I shouldn't tell this to Senator
15 Bruno in public, but the way he uses logic and
16 language, you really are one of my idols.
17 Senator, you say that this is the second year in
18 a row that we have cut spending. The truth is
19 it's about the 22nd year in a row that the
20 Republican Majority in this house has urged a
21 budget that's greater in spending than the
22 Governor. Now, that's the reality. Whether
23 that governor was Carey, whether that governor
6963
1 was Cuomo or whether that governor is Pataki,
2 whatever the governor says, you spend more.
3 Now, Senator, I don't mind that
4 you do it. I mind that you do it and then some
5 of your colleagues, not as honorable and as open
6 as you are, Senator, run away from it. I know
7 one of my colleagues who has a big grin -- but I
8 won't mention our law professor by name -- gets
9 very excited when I say, "Senator, you're
10 spending more than the Governor" and he says,
11 "No, no, no. We've cut it by this. We've cut
12 it -- it's less than last" -- it's more than the
13 Governor. That's all. Let's put it where it's
14 at.
15 Last year, you were 1.6 billion
16 more than the Governor. Now this year it's only
17 1.2 or 900 million, but it's more, and I don't
18 know how you get around that in any practical
19 way.
20 This particular bill, just so we
21 understand it, does a lot of things, and as
22 Senator Connor pointed out, some of it is good.
23 I don't think that you can spend $400 million
6964
1 more than the Governor and not be something
2 good, but that's what this particular bill does
3 do, as I understand it, and while I am not happy
4 with what this bill, even in its amended state,
5 would do to CUNY and SUNY, the fact is that we
6 do give them, as the Senator pointed out, more
7 money.
8 I would hope -- and this is my
9 last comment on this -- I would just hope that
10 in addition to passing a one-house budget today,
11 that perhaps for the first time in a long, long
12 time, maybe the press will get it right and at
13 least report on what happens here, and what is
14 happening here is that the Majority is coming
15 out, the Majority is looking the public in the
16 face and saying, Okay. Let's forget the tax cut
17 thought. We have to put money into certain
18 places and, therefore, we are going to tell you
19 that we have to spend $900 million more.
20 Senator, I would respect that,
21 and if you want my cooperation, Senator Bruno,
22 in fixing the Governor's budget, I'll be glad to
23 do it. There are some areas where you have done
6965
1 a good job. Unfortunately, Senator Bruno, there
2 are some areas that you haven't dealt with very,
3 very well. Whether the luxury tax is the best
4 one to deal with or some other one is something
5 that ought to be discussed, but I am delighted
6 that once and for all -- once and for all, maybe
7 we can stop with some of the masquerading that
8 goes on around here and each one of you can
9 stand up when you vote for this budget and say,
10 Yes, the Governor is a good man; the Governor is
11 an honorable man, but he doesn't know how to
12 spend as well as I do because you certainly are
13 bigger spenders than the Governor of this state.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
19 Montgomery, why do you rise?
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
21 President, I have an amendment at the desk to
22 Calendar 1351, Senate Bill 5590.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
6966
1 amendment is at the desk.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would like
3 to waive its reading.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Waive the
5 reading. Would you like to speak on the
6 amendment?
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I would
8 like to speak on the amendment.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
10 Montgomery, on the amendment.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
12 I hear the illustrious leader of
13 the Senate talking about all of the aspects of
14 this bill that he thinks are an improvement in
15 the fiscal state of our state and while I can
16 certainly agree on some of the areas, there are
17 some glaring omissions that I would just like to
18 raise in this amendment, and part of what I'm
19 going to raise deals with the one thing that I
20 think we all agree in this room that is pivotal
21 to opportunity and to the future economy and the
22 future development of the potential of people in
23 this state, and that is higher education.
6967
1 I -- Madam President, my -- my
2 amendment just simply enhances what is being
3 proposed here in some very important ways. For
4 instance, I note that the CSTEP in this bill has
5 been eliminated. I would like to see that
6 important program which introduces young people
7 to science at an early age, STEP, CSTEP, I would
8 like to see those funded at the level at least
9 that they were last year. I'm proposing that
10 CSTEP be funded at the level of three and a half
11 million.
12 The other important area that is
13 very, very small -- it's minuscule when you look
14 at this total budget, yet it is extremely
15 important in developing teachers who are able to
16 go in and work effectively with young people in
17 their classrooms no matter where they are and
18 where they come from and what their background,
19 and that's the Teacher Opportunity Corps. I
20 would like to see that funded. That has been
21 eliminated. I think that is a mistake.
22 Let's fund TAP to at least 90
23 percent of the tuition. That would cost 45
6968
1 million. However, that's, again, a minuscule
2 amount of money for an extremely important
3 program that provides opportunity for people who
4 otherwise would not be able to attend a -
5 higher ed' institutions.
6 We have already lost some 20,000
7 young people who are no longer able to afford to
8 access higher education. That is shameful, and
9 let's not continue that -- that mistake.
10 So, Madam President, my -- my
11 amendment would restore funding so that we could
12 continue to at least fund TAP to -- up to 90
13 percent of the costs of tuition.
14 In addition, my amendment
15 addresses the children and family block grant.
16 That needs to be at least restored up to '94-95
17 levels. The cost is $10 million, but we're
18 saving lives. This is not -- this is not a
19 program that -- where -- that people are enter
20 tained. We are not paying for entertainment of
21 people. We're paying to save lives of young
22 people, young children and their families.
23 We talk about removing people
6969
1 from the welfare rolls, and I am probably, out
2 of everybody in here, despite what you may think
3 -- you think, I probably would like to see
4 people removed from welfare more than anybody
5 else in here because it's demeaning and it's
6 disgusting and it takes away your basic sense of
7 personhood and esteem. It's an awful way to
8 have to live to be essentially on the dole, and
9 it's embarrassing. So we should certainly be
10 supporting that. How do you do it? You have to
11 provide day care, child care. It is a pivotal
12 part and you have to provide jobs for people and
13 opportunity.
14 So, Madam President, my amendment
15 simply says, let's live up to what we talk about
16 we want. We say that we want to get people off
17 of welfare. Fine. Let's make it possible for
18 them to access higher education. We say we want
19 people to be able to go to work. Fine. Let's
20 -- let's present a budget that has those oppor
21 tunities, especially by way of jobs, new job
22 opportunities, and we say that we want women to
23 go to work. We don't want them to sit home. We
6970
1 don't want them to be mothers that just sit home
2 and take care of their children. We really want
3 them to go to work. Fine. I agree with that,
4 as long as we have day care for them, for their
5 children so the children can be safe while
6 parents work and/or while they are able to
7 access higher education.
8 So, Madam President, I think that
9 my amendment makes so much sense. This is
10 probably a historical moment in this house.
11 We're going to vote for it because you want the
12 same things that I do. I know that Senator
13 Bruno wants that. He talks about it all the
14 time how he doesn't want people begging and he
15 doesn't want people on welfare and he doesn't
16 want people to be on the dole.
17 So, Senator Bruno, live up to
18 your words. Let's do the right thing for once,
19 make sure we have day care, add the $10 million
20 that I propose or the $18 million that I
21 propose. Restore $10 million to the children
22 and family block grant, and let's raise the
23 tuition so that people can, in fact -- are able
6971
1 to access higher education.
2 Thank you, Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
4 you, Senator Montgomery.
5 Senator Padavan.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would Senator
7 Montgomery yield to a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Montgomery yields to Senator Padavan.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: First off, I
11 heard your initiatives and the things that you
12 spoke to, and I just have one simple question.
13 Reflecting on the dialogue we listened to
14 earlier between the chairman, the Minority
15 member of Finance and the Majority Leader -- can
16 you give us an idea roughly what the total
17 increase would be beyond the budget bill before
18 us by virtue of all these amendments?
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: You want to
20 know what my budget bill would be? I believe my
21 budget would cost somewhere around 51 million -
22 51 million, very small amount. I'm not asking
23 for a lot.
6972
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: 51 million?
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: This is not
3 a big restoration, Senator. 51 million.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: 51 million.
5 That would be the addition beyond that which is
6 currently before us.
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: This is just
8 -- this would bring it up to how we funded
9 these programs last year.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you very
11 much.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
13 question is on the amendment.
14 Senator Leichter.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam
16 President, yes. I just wanted to elaborate a
17 little bit on Senator Montgomery's answer to
18 Senator Padavan's question. Senator, you take
19 it as a given that we accept all of your
20 spending initiatives. We would make a lot of
21 changes if we had a budget that really served
22 the interests of the people of the state of New
23 York. So some of the -
6973
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would you
2 yield, Senator?
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Sure.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: You did not
5 hear me correctly. I said what was the net -
6 now, I didn't hear any amendments, at least in
7 Senator Montgomery's presentation, that deleted
8 anything in this budget. Now, if there are some
9 to come, I will be very attentive. This was in
10 addition. It was not a deletion of any other
11 part of the budget.
12 Now, if you're saying that you're
13 going to propose removing certain items from the
14 budget that have dollar signs associated with
15 them, I will be very attentive to what you have
16 to say.
17 I implied no such conclusion. I
18 simply added -- asked what was the net result of
19 this amendment.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Leichter.
6974
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm happy to
2 respond to my good friend, but the very premise
3 of your question was that taking your budget as
4 a baseline, it would add so much. We don't take
5 your budget as a baseline. I don't think that
6 when you have an amendment to the budget that
7 deals with one specific area that you're
8 required to take a one-house budget bill and
9 make adjustments in it and point out to you how
10 it works out.
11 So the fact of the matter is that
12 this is not a $51 million addition to what your
13 budget is because we happen to disagree with the
14 budget. We can do it by amendments. Some of us
15 are going to do it by voting against your
16 amendment showing in that sense how we feel that
17 that budget, in many respects, has misplaced
18 priorities.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Madam
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Leichter.
23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I
6975
1 think in the last sentence you just made, you
2 clarified the issue. I think it's an obligation
3 we all have, that if we're going to say we're
4 spending too much -- and certainly that was the
5 clear implication and the comments of Senator
6 Gold and Senator Connor -- I have no quarrel
7 with some of the initiatives outlined by Senator
8 Montgomery, but I think we have an obligation if
9 we're going to say this budget is unsatisfactory
10 because it doesn't do this but it should not do
11 that, to not give us half the story. If you
12 want to add 51 million, fine. Show us within
13 the parameters that you already stated here
14 where that will come from in some other portion
15 of the budget. Are you going to reduce aid to
16 education 51 million? Are you going to reduce
17 mental health 51 million, or whatever the number
18 turns out to be when we hear all the
19 amendments. I think that's an obligation we
20 have.
21 Now, you say you're going to
22 demonstrate that by voting against the budget.
23 Well, fine. That's your prerogative. No
6976
1 quarrel with that either, but don't start off
2 the debate by lecturing us that this budget is
3 more than the Governor presented to us when you
4 and your amendments are going to do even more
5 so.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -
7 Senator Padavan.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Padavan.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just to answer
11 you, I think that Senator Connor and Senator
12 Gold -- and I was in the Conference Committee
13 and didn't hear everything they said, but I
14 heard enough and I know the viewpoints -- I
15 think they wanted everybody to understand what
16 you were doing. They felt that it is wrong for
17 the Senate Republicans to hide under a smoke
18 screen that "we are cutting spending" when, in
19 fact, you're not. That doesn't mean -- and I
20 heard Senator Gold say it -- that he doesn't
21 agree with some of your initiatives, but let's
22 be honest. He wanted you to be honest as a
23 Majority, not you individually, Senator, because
6977
1 you are, but as a Majority to be honest and to
2 tell the people, We are increasing spending.
3 That doesn't mean -- that doesn't mean that here
4 and there that we don't agree with you, here and
5 there we disagree with you. I was just
6 concerned, Senator, that you were getting the
7 wrong impression on Senator Montgomery's
8 amendment and that you were thinking that we
9 were accepting your budget.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't think
11 there's -
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Your budget
13 doesn't seem to be accepted by your own
14 governor, so why should we accept it?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Padavan to respond to Senator Leichter.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, you
18 read the papers just the way I do. The Majority
19 has been stating time and time again on, I might
20 add, some occasions very similar to the
21 Assembly, that we wish to add to the Governor's
22 budget based on estimates of revenue and other
23 considerations. There's never been any secret
6978
1 about that. That's been going on for weeks, if
2 not months. Your suggestion that we are not
3 being honest -- well, you just haven't been
4 paying attention. That's been stated time and
5 time again.
6 The only comment made here today,
7 if I heard the Majority Leader correctly -- and
8 I did -- was that this budget is less than last
9 year by 357 million. Nowhere, at no time has
10 anybody said that this budget -- these budget
11 bills are not greater than that proposed by the
12 Governor. We have been perfectly honest in that
13 regard.
14 However, I think your rhetoric
15 was somewhat oblique when you bring up the point
16 that we are spending more than the Governor and
17 then you go on to present amendments that do
18 even more so. I think, you know, if we want to
19 be honest, I think we have that obligation but
20 let's not play games while we're doing it.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Gold.
6979
1 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator
2 Padavan yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Padavan, will you yield to Senator Gold?
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR GOLD: First of all,
9 Senator, I want to clarify the record. I didn't
10 say we were spending too much. I think Senator
11 Leichter hit it right on the head, and I'm glad
12 you're finally acknowledging it, just for the
13 clarity of the record of who's doing what but,
14 Senator, I've heard this spending less than last
15 year $357 million.
16 Senator, the fact of the matter
17 is, is it not, that last year you and your
18 Majority increased the Governor's budget by 1.6
19 billion and this year your agreement with the
20 Assembly was only 1.2 billion. So it's not that
21 you're spending less money than last year. What
22 you're doing is maybe adding to the Governor's
23 budget a little less than last year, but you're
6980
1 certainly, as you did last year and the year
2 before and the year before, spending more money
3 every year than the governors have asked for.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: The Governor's
5 budget request has been cut -- are you going to
6 listen to the phone -- is something that we have
7 all been made aware of since the middle of
8 December, and this Majority, and I might add the
9 Majority in the Assembly, has labored with that
10 budget in a variety of ways. You participated
11 in public hearings chaired by Senator Stafford
12 and others over an extended period of time where
13 we've listened to the people of this state.
14 We've listened to representatives from our city,
15 from the mayor, from the speaker of the City
16 Council and many, many others have come here for
17 months now pointing out areas where they feel
18 adjustments in the Governor's budget were
19 appropriate and desirable. We have heard the
20 people, and Senator Bruno presents to you a
21 budget that reflects what the people have said.
22 Now, you can categorize that any
23 way you wish. We have not hid from the simple
6981
1 fact that this budget exceeds the Governor's
2 proposal, and you -- I don't even know why you
3 feel it necessary to bring that up. It's a
4 known fact.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
7 Padavan, will you yield to Senator Gold?
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'll tell
12 you why I bring it up, and one of my colleagues
13 -- one of my dear friends was concerned last
14 week because somebody was making reference to a
15 memo and whether the bill or the memo -- and
16 from my point of view, I'm concerned about what
17 we say to the public. Forget whether it's a
18 bill or a memo. What we say to the public.
19 Senator Bruno's press release
20 today in his fourth or fifth paragraph doesn't
21 say, And we are proud once again to spend more
22 money than suggested by the Governor because we
23 held hearings and we're concerned about the
6982
1 needs of the people. It says, quote, "The
2 Senate budget spends 357 million less than the
3 general fund than last year", and that's where
4 you're focusing people.
5 I want people to focus on the
6 truth. The truth is that you last year spent
7 1.6 billion more than the Governor wanted and so
8 this year you're a little less, but at least
9 let's let them know what's going on and then
10 we'll be able to argue from there about it, and
11 just so we have it clear, according to the press
12 reports and according to the shaking of hands
13 that I heard about, the Majority in this house
14 agreed with the Majority in the other house to
15 spend 1.2 billion. So that if you take the
16 amendment of Senator Montgomery, we're still way
17 within what you on the other side agreed we
18 could spend, way within it, and if we do some
19 things which some of us believe must be done for
20 Medicaid and put in another 140 million in that
21 to take care of people who really need it, we're
22 still within the bounds because the fact is that
23 if the Governor went along with you and the
6983
1 Majority in the other house, we would have
2 before us an additional $300 million in spending
3 than this bill puts forth.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
5 Waldon.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
7 much, Madam President.
8 Would Senator Montgomery yield to
9 a question or two?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
11 Montgomery, will you yield to Senator Waldon?
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR WALDON: Senator
16 Montgomery, I was very intrigued by your
17 presentation regarding your amendment. One, it
18 was eloquently stated. Two, you went point by
19 point for us telling us the needs as you saw
20 them regarding certain issues contained in the
21 proposal that we are considering, and I was
22 wondering, is this something that just dropped
23 out of the air to you, or did your constituents
6984
1 actually call you, or did your research motivate
2 you to put this amendment together, or who did
3 you hear which caused you to submit this for our
4 consideration as an amendment? Would you please
5 edify us?
6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Well, Madam
7 President -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Montgomery.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- in answer
11 to Senator Waldon, Senator Waldon -
12 SENATOR WALDON: I can't hear,
13 Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: A little
15 quiet in the chamber, please.
16 Thank you.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- I have
18 for some years been very much involved in the
19 whole issue of what are the things that we do in
20 the state of New York that really, in fact, work
21 to support families moving from welfare to
22 independence; and one of the things that we have
23 found based on studies that have been done
6985
1 funded by state education, done by City
2 University Graduate Center, looking at what
3 happens to people who are able to go through
4 college, receive a degree at different levels,
5 come out; where does that put them in
6 relationship to the welfare system? That study
7 has been replicated around the nation, and the
8 answer is simple, that if a person -- if it's a
9 young person or if it's a parent who goes back
10 to school, if that person is able to go through
11 college successfully, if they receive a two-year
12 degree, they do very well. If they receive a
13 four-year degree, they do even better. They are
14 95 to 99 percent likely never to have to require
15 the use of publicly funded services.
16 So that this is an investment.
17 Higher education in the state of New York is an
18 investment, and it is an investment in reducing,
19 in fact, the cost to the state of people who
20 need services on an -- on a limitless basis.
21 So what my proposal does, Senator
22 Waldon, is speak to what we know works in the
23 state because we've done it and we've seen how
6986
1 it works. I've also had hundreds and hundreds
2 of letters from young people who are in school,
3 many people who've said they've had to drop out
4 of school because they can no longer afford to
5 go to college. This is very heartbreaking, some
6 people who are in their last semester in
7 college. So this has really been a very, very
8 -- a very, very disappointing problem that we
9 have created based on last year's cuts.
10 So what I'm trying to do is at
11 least bring us to restore what we were able to
12 do at least last year so that we don't continue
13 to lose young people from the system.
14 Day care is important. On a
15 daily basis, I get phone calls from some parent
16 needing day care. "I'm eligible. I'm within
17 the income eligibility but there is no child
18 care for me. I want to go to school. I don't
19 have child care. Where can I get it?" These
20 are -- these are very troublesome times, and
21 what I'm saying is that the state cannot afford
22 to just back away from people. This is an
23 investment that we make and, Madam President, to
6987
1 Senator Waldon, it just didn't come off the top
2 of my head. I'm not just begging for some more
3 money so that people can enjoy themselves. I'm
4 asking this -- this house to look at my
5 amendment as a statement of investment in our
6 future. It is the future of the state that is
7 at stake, not just the individual young person
8 who's dropped out of school. For every little
9 person that we lose out of school, for every
10 parent who doesn't have child care who can't go
11 to work, for every person who can't go to
12 college because TAP isn't there, the state
13 loses. It is our loss. So let's not -- let's
14 not be foolish about this.
15 Maybe we cannot afford the taxes
16 that Senator Bruno has outlined that he wants to
17 cut. Yes, I want to cut taxes because I want
18 businesses to be able to flourish in this
19 state. I'm not anti-business, but there is a
20 point where you have to say, We have to
21 establish some priorities and investment to any
22 business person is a priority. Investment in
23 your business' growth is a priority. That has
6988
1 to be a priority. Investment in the people in
2 our state has to be a priority for the state.
3 So, Senator Waldon, it didn't
4 just come off the top of my head. This is a
5 sincere request of my colleagues to make some
6 sense today with this budget by adopting this
7 amendment.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Waldon.
10 SENATOR WALDON: Madam President,
11 would the gentle lady from Kings County yield to
12 just one more question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Montgomery, would you yield?
15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I'm
19 touched by what you said. I thought you were
20 really on point. Your sensitivity to people who
21 are least able to take care of themselves is
22 legend in this house.
23 What I think I heard you say sub
6989
1 rosa, underneath all of your words, was that
2 government should be in the business of people,
3 and impliedly in those statements, I believe you
4 said -- and I wish you to correct me if I was in
5 error -- that our highest priority should be the
6 people of the state of New York, ensuring that
7 they could have the very best and highest
8 quality of life and that your amendment would go
9 a long way towards ensuring that mandate. Is
10 that what I heard, Senator?
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Absolutely.
12 Absolutely, Madam President. That is exactly
13 what I would like to do.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Madam President,
15 my colleague, I thank you very much.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
17 Oppenheimer, on the amendment.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
19 like to ask a question, if I may, of the
20 sponsor.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Montgomery, do you yield to Senator
23 Oppenheimer?
6990
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
5 like you to answer the question, how would we
6 proceed with moving low income women off -- of
7 families off of welfare if we did not have this
8 low income child care subsidy; because these
9 families very likely have small children and
10 since we cannot leave them out on the street, we
11 have to find some low income subsidies so that
12 the child of the welfare family will have a
13 place to go while the mother either takes job
14 training or education. Is there an alternative
15 to not moving ahead with low income child care
16 subsidy? Is there any choice?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
18 Montgomery.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: There is no
20 alternative that I'm aware of to provide for the
21 children of parents who are young children, in
22 particular, and children in general. We have -
23 we serve about five percent of the need for -
6991
1 for day care in this state, quality day care
2 services. This doesn't begin to even address
3 the real need, but it at least provides for the
4 localities resources where they can begin to
5 provide more, hopefully, day care which begins
6 to meet the needs of these particular families.
7 Let me just say that what has
8 happened in New York City, in particular, is
9 that we have, in fact, lost day care for working
10 families. The day care that we have now targets
11 those parents that we want to get off of welfare
12 but at the same time, we are throwing out the
13 children of parents who are marginal, though
14 they're working. So it's very likely that we're
15 going to create a situation where they're going
16 to come back onto welfare and then once again
17 they will be eligible for whatever small amount
18 of day care services that we have.
19 So this -- we cannot -- we cannot
20 expect our welfare reform movement to be
21 successful ever if we are not willing to provide
22 child care services which allow people to go to
23 work. That is what happened in World War II
6992
1 when we needed women working. That's what
2 happened in New York City. That's when we came
3 into the welfare -- the day care business. It
4 was set up so that women could go to work.
5 That's when the government needed them to go to
6 work because the men were gone to war.
7 So I say if we're at war with
8 this -- with welfare reform and we want to
9 really -- we want to get rid of it, we want to
10 make it so that people are not bound to be on
11 welfare, then we have to understand what will
12 make that possible and child care is important,
13 and I don't know any other way of doing it
14 without child care services.
15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And -
16 would you yield for another question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
18 Montgomery continues to yield.
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
20 Ms. President.
21 Would you say that in most other
22 countries in the industrialized world, that this
23 understanding of providing assistance to
6993
1 families that are working but low income,
2 working their at least 40 hours a week, probably
3 more, but still do not have the money necessary
4 to provide for the children to go to child care
5 because it's costly? Would you say that this
6 country would -- and this state would rightly -
7 would be moving in the correct direction to try
8 to remediate what is a major problem now and
9 also if you would comment on the need for the
10 quality child care that these low income
11 families need.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Let me just
13 say, Madam President, that some of the other
14 countries that we are aware of place their
15 children as a priority. So even though some of
16 them are not as well placed as the U.S. but -
17 they make sure that there is child care
18 available for at least 75 or more percent of
19 their children. France is one of them that has
20 for years, for decades, been a leader in the
21 world in terms of the way that it provides for
22 its young children. Britain is another place
23 where there are modeled -- there's a model
6994
1 approach to young children, that young children
2 are important and they provide for them. China
3 even provides for children to have -- to be
4 cared for at the workplace. They've done that
5 for -- for many years. Israel is another place
6 where children are -- are cared for, and these
7 are model nations where the child is viewed as
8 an asset and, therefore, it is a requirement
9 that we invest so that our assets grow and are
10 productive and our economy expands and our
11 literacy rate is addressed, and so on.
12 So there are many, many examples
13 around the world.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
15 DiCarlo, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And so we
17 are very far behind in this country, in fact,
18 and let me just say that New York State has been
19 in the past a leader at least in the nation.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
22 would you excuse the interruption? Senator
23 DiCarlo has risen.
6995
1 Senator, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 Would Senator Montgomery yield
5 for a question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
7 would you yield for a question?
8 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could
9 interrupt for one minute, if we could. Just for
10 the order of -- maintaining order in the house,
11 if we could direct -- rather than having a
12 conversation between two members, if we could
13 direct the question and the answer through the
14 Chair, I think it would make the conversation a
15 lot more productive.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
17 would you allow an interruption? Senator
18 DiCarlo has risen.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam
20 President, I will.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
22 you, Senator Montgomery.
23 Senator DiCarlo, why do you
6996
1 rise?
2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 Senator Montgomery, I don't know
5 whether I was listening attentively enough, but
6 did you just a few moments ago hold the People's
7 Republic of China up as some example of child
8 care?
9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I did.
10 Yes, I did.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
12 DiCarlo.
13 SENATOR DiCARLO: Senator
14 Montgomery, isn't it -- it's my understanding
15 that in the People's Republic of China, don't
16 they have a problem with the government
17 sanctioning and allowing the murder of female
18 children and it's widespread throughout the
19 People's Republic of China? That's the nation
20 you're holding up as saying they are superior to
21 us in terms of child care; is that correct?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Montgomery.
6997
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
2 President, the China that I am referring to is
3 where they have developed a system whereby the
4 children are allowed to -- the child care is
5 attached to the workplace. So parents come to
6 the workplace, bring their children, breast feed
7 their children, if necessary, while they're at
8 work, have lunch with the children so there is a
9 -- there is an involvement with their children
10 at all times during the day while they are at
11 work.
12 I am not prepared to address the
13 issue that Senator -- Senator DiCarlo raises.
14 While I am extremely concerned about the whole
15 notion of limiting children by killing them as
16 they're born as has been reported that may be
17 happening in China, there is, in fact, Madam
18 President, a history in China related to this
19 kind of child care, and that's simply the model
20 that I was talking about.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
22 you, Senator.
23 Senator DiCarlo.
6998
1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Senator, am I
2 to understand that you continue to believe that
3 the People's Republic of China does a better job
4 with children and caring for its children,
5 whether it be the workplace or not the
6 workplace, than the United States of America;
7 that's what you're really telling us?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Montgomery.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
11 President, I'm simply saying that the model of
12 having child care available for people who were
13 working -- working people at the work site was a
14 model that China developed many, many decades
15 ago prior to the time that we in this country
16 were looking at the work site as an appropriate
17 place to provide child care. That is all that I
18 am saying.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
20 you, Senator Montgomery.
21 If you want to proceed with
22 Senator Oppenheimer, if you would direct your
23 questions through the Chair, Senator
6999
1 Oppenheimer, so that Senator Montgomery can
2 yield in the traditional fashion.
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I guess my
4 -- my -- my question was we have been
5 proceeding in this state fairly well with middle
6 income child care at the work sites at least in
7 my area, but I was questioning, was there any
8 alternative to placing this $18 million back
9 into low income child care because I see no
10 other way of helping the people we want to keep
11 employed and we want to get employed, and that's
12 where we started this polemic.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Oppenheimer's question, would you repeat just
15 the question, please?
16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
17 question was, is there any other way to keep
18 people -- families working and to get people
19 into the work force?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
21 Montgomery.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And I think
23 you answered that already.
7000
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The answer
2 is no.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
4 answer is no. The question is on the
5 amendment. Those in favor say aye.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
7 the affirmative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Opposed?
9 In the affirmative. Call the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 37.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Record
13 the party vote. The amendment is defeated.
14 The Secretary will read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: This act shall
17 take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- those
22 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 1351
23 are Senators Abate, Connor, Gold, Hoffmann,
7001
1 Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez,
2 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Smith, Stachowski
3 and Waldon. Ayes 41, nays 15.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
8 at this time, could you call up Calendar Number
9 1401 that was previously reported from the Rules
10 Committee.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Secretary
12 shall read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1401, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
15 Print 7737, an act making appropriations for the
16 support of government.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Calendar
18 Number 1401, Senate Bill Number 7737.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
20 message of necessity at the desk?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes,
22 there is a message of necessity and message of
23 appropriation at the desk.
7002
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: All those
3 in favor of accepting the messages, say aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The messages are accepted.
8 Secretary will read the last
9 section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
16 the negative on Calendar Number 1401 are
17 Senators DiCarlo, Libous and Wright. Ayes 53,
18 nays 3.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
20 is passed.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
22 if you would recognize Senator Nanula, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
7003
1 Nanula.
2 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Madam
3 President. I would like to request unanimous
4 consent to be recorded in the negative on
5 Calendar Number 1351.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Unanimous
7 consent, without objection, on Calendar 1351,
8 Senator Nanula.
9 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
11 Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
13 at this time, if you could call up -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
15 Nozzolio, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
17 President, I would like to be recorded in the
18 negative on Calendar 1401.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Without
20 objection, Calendar 1401, Senator Nozzolio in
21 the negative.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 Senator Maziarz.
7004
1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
2 Madam President. I would like to ask unanimous
3 consent to be recorded in the negative on
4 Calendar Number 1401, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Unanimous
6 consent on 1401 for Senator Maziarz.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: If you could
9 call up Calendar Number 1402 which was reported
10 from the Rules Committee.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Secretary
12 shall read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1402, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
15 Print 7743, an act making appropriations for the
16 support of government.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
18 is there a message of appropriation and
19 necessity at the desk?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: There are
21 messages of appropriation and necessity at the
22 desk.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept
7005
1 the messages.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: All those
3 in favor of accepting the messages, aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The messages are accepted.
8 Secretary will read the last
9 section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 52. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 1,
16 Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
21 if we could return to Supplemental Calendar
22 Number 1 and take up Calendar Number 1352.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Secretary
7006
1 shall read Calendar 1352.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1352, Budget Bill, Senate Print 5591A, an act
4 making appropriations for the support of
5 government on public protection, health and
6 mental hygiene.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
9 Explanation has been asked for.
10 Senator Nanula, why did you
11 rise?
12 SENATOR NANULA: I wanted express
13 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
14 negative. I'll wait until after.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: We'll
16 wait until later. Thank you.
17 Senator Stafford, an explanation
18 has been requested.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 I would point out that this year
22 -- I would point out that the State Operations
23 Budget, I think, is much better drafted this
7007
1 year. I think it's much clearer, and I think
2 those who have been involved in this, especially
3 the staff people, are indeed to be commended.
4 This bill, S.5591, we have
5 entitled the, "Public Protection, Health and
6 Mental Hygiene" bill.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Gold.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator
11 yield to a question?
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 Stafford yields.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, my
16 understanding is that this bill adds another
17 $350 million to the Governor's budget, and that
18 one very small item in there is 2.5 million for
19 -- it says, "partial restoration" of Queensboro
20 -- Kingsboro, rather, Psychiatric Center. Am I
21 correct on that?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator,
7008
1 what my concern is, is that there was talk
2 earlier this year of closing Kingsboro
3 Psychiatric Center, and there was much talk
4 about it at the budget hearings conducted by you
5 and I and Assemblyman Farrell and Assemblyman
6 Faso. What I'm concerned about is the words
7 "partial restoration." How much money would be
8 needed, Senator, to keep Kingsboro Psychiatric
9 Center operating as it is operating today in its
10 full capacity?
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: $7 million.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if you
13 yield to one more question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
15 will you yield to one more question?
16 Thank you.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, this is
18 my concern. Those people who are affected by
19 Kingsboro Psychiatric Center and who want it so
20 desperately to remain open are very, very
21 suspicious of a partial restoration of $2.5
22 million, which is maybe a little more than a
23 third of the money because what we anticipate -
7009
1 and this is what I would like you to comment
2 on -- is that the downsizing, which was the word
3 used in the committee meeting, is only one step
4 towards the closing of the facility.
5 In other words, if you have about
6 one-third the budget and you are going to have
7 to fire employees, if you are going to have to
8 cut services, you are going to have to cut out
9 rooms that are being used, then next year we
10 have the argument presented to us, How can you
11 keep this big building open when you got so many
12 vacant rooms and we don't have the employees,
13 and that is one step away, as I say, from the
14 closing?
15 So isn't it a fact, Senator, that
16 this 2.5 million is just one, perhaps, year from
17 avoiding the inevitable which is this great
18 desire to close this facility?
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
20 I understand Senator Gold's question and I would
21 point this out. This phenomena concerning our
22 facilities in this field started way before this
23 administration. Up in our area in northern New
7010
1 York, we have exactly the same situation. We
2 have a facility that at one time -- don't hold
3 me to this, but I think it was up around 3,000
4 -- 2,000, excuse me. Two thousand is a lot of
5 people for our area to get together at one time,
6 and it now has, I am told, less than 300.
7 That's a very serious situation for those in the
8 community. There is no question about it.
9 I relate to that, because I have
10 friends. I have people that I know well, and I
11 was going to say relatives -- and I think it's
12 no doubt accurate -- who are affected.
13 Now, I think this. I think that
14 those who are very, very concerned about
15 Kingsboro -- and I say this with all the concern
16 and sensitivity that I can bring together here,
17 I think they are very fortunate that this
18 funding is here, and I think that we just move
19 on from there. I assure you there are many
20 other facilities that have the same feeling
21 because -- and, again, I don't mean to get into
22 this in too much detail, but I have always
23 remembered this. I had a friend that I went to
7011
1 school with, and all through school for 12 years
2 his mother was in the facility that I'm talking
3 about in northern New York, and treatment
4 changed, and medicine changed, and the mother
5 has been home now 20 years, and what I'm saying
6 is there has been many good things that have
7 happened here, but, again, we've had some very
8 serious problems in communities where these
9 facilities are. There is no question about it.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
11 will the gentleman yield to a question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
13 will you yield?
14 The Senator yields.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Stafford,
16 your ability not to answer questions is
17 legendary, and we understand that, but I really
18 believe that your side of the aisle either is
19 ashamed or they're proud of what they do, and I
20 know you're proud, so let's just deal with the
21 question.
22 There's this terrible expression,
23 "self-fulling prophecy," and it seems to me
7012
1 that if we, in fact, fund Kingsboro Psychiatric
2 Center at only 2.5 million we are going to have
3 a self-fulling prophecy because we will cut
4 staff. You cut staff and even though there are
5 patients who should be assigned to that facility
6 they can't be assigned. So they will be
7 assigned to Creedmoor. They will be assigned to
8 Staten Island, and then as it works its way
9 down, somebody next year says, "Why do we have
10 to have this facility open? After all, look how
11 many vacancies there are."
12 That's what I want you to
13 address, Senator. There are people in Kings
14 County, and there are people who find it
15 convenient to have their family there. There is
16 a need for that facility; and downsizing, as we
17 hear, to the extent of elimination of almost
18 two-thirds of its budget is really the death
19 knell; and isn't it a fact that this is the
20 death knell?
21 Is it the fact that your party
22 wants to close the facility and by cutting down
23 by two-thirds this year is laying the foundation
7013
1 for its closure next year?
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, you
3 mentioned -- Mr. President. Senator Gold
4 mentioned to me that we were very proud. I
5 think he was being rather light, so I will
6 answer lightly in the beginning here.
7 You said "self-fulling
8 prophecy." I thought that meant if you keep
9 saying it that it will happen. But what you are
10 saying is that it isn't exactly that you are
11 just saying it.
12 Now, as far as the money
13 available for Kingsboro, you know this -- this
14 great state is a great locomotive, and it has
15 many, many engines. We like to keep these
16 engines going, and if we continually just draw
17 resources from these engines, continually draw
18 it, the first thing you know the locomotive
19 isn't going to run, and then we're not going to
20 have a state for anything, for social services,
21 for infrastructure, for the protection, police
22 powers, education. It's priorities.
23 Again, that's what a budget is
7014
1 all about. It's raising the issues and
2 balancing the equities, and this is what has to
3 be done and you have to decide. Will the money
4 be spent here? Will it be spent there? Where
5 can it best be spent? We won't spend quite as
6 much probably as we want to here. But, as I
7 say, if a facility is remaining open and is
8 being funded, in this day and age, I wouldn't
9 complain. I would be encouraged.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
12 Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman
14 yield to a question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
16 will you yield?
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
19 yields.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you,
21 Senator. Let's try it again. I understand
22 about all of the engines, Senator, but isn't it
23 a fact that what this appropriation is doing is
7015
1 informing this community that it is the
2 intention of your party if you have your
3 budgetary druthers, together with the Governor,
4 who was going to cut it out altogether, to
5 terminate the facility in Brooklyn, and that
6 this year the so-called downsizing will take the
7 guts out of the program, and next year the next
8 step will be to look at it and say, "We now have
9 a mostly empty facility; let's close it," and if
10 we do that, Senator, just understand, it means
11 crowds of people from Brooklyn coming through
12 Senator Padavan's district, coming to Creedmoor,
13 having to travel two, three hours by mass
14 transit to see their relatives. It means huge
15 gaps in support because where the facility is
16 now there are people in there who get support
17 from their family who live in the community, and
18 that kind of transportation is very hard
19 particularly if you have people of limited
20 means, people who work for a living. They can
21 not make that trip without losing their job.
22 Isn't it a fact that by this
23 funding, we are telling the people at Kingsboro,
7016
1 "Watch out, because next year there is no
2 program"? Isn't that a fact?
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, Senator
4 -- or Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6 Stafford.
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Now, I
8 explained last year. You know, sending a
9 message, you're telling the people -- I
10 mentioned to you last year, you know, one man's
11 ceiling is another man's floor. I mean it's how
12 people interpret things.
13 Please let me emphasize that
14 there was no funding for Kingsboro. The funding
15 has been restored to save the facility. Next
16 year is next year. We can't what -- we can't
17 tell what will happen next year. As they say in
18 legal circles, tempus fugit.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
21 Gold.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, will the
23 gentleman yield to a question?
7017
1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
3 Stafford, would you yield?
4 He yields.
5 SENATOR GOLD: As I was saying,
6 Senator, right now there is a facility that
7 operates, and it's called Kingsboro Psychiatric
8 Center; and if the Governor's budget were to
9 have its way, this facility would be closed
10 down. It would be emptied out, and people would
11 be sent to Creedmoor or other places traveling
12 through the community.
13 There was an outcry over this,
14 and the point was made at budget hearings that
15 this would be a terrible inequity, particularly
16 since the facility is operating and servicing
17 its community.
18 Isn't it a fact, Senator, by this
19 so-called downsizing, by putting in budget
20 requests which may take care of one-third of the
21 institution, that this is part of a plan to
22 create a self-fulling prophecy? So then, next
23 year we come out and say, "Well, you don't have
7018
1 the same outcry as last year because, look,
2 two-thirds of the place is empty; two-thirds of
3 the place doesn't work. We don't have the same
4 staffing levels, and we can't take the crowds of
5 people."
6 So that now, next year, if you
7 try to close it down, you hope that you will
8 have squashed some of the opposition because you
9 would have sent some of those families already
10 to other facilities; or, in assigning new people
11 to a facility, you will now assign them other
12 places because you don't have the staff at
13 Kingsboro because we haven't funded it.
14 So, Senator, I'm willing to stick
15 it out as long as you are. Isn't it a fact that
16 this particular downsizing is only to create the
17 opportunity next year to terminate the use of
18 the facility?
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator -
20 Madam President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Stafford.
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would only
7019
1 -- I would only attempt to answer the Senator
2 -- distinguished Senator from Queens this way.
3 The entire situation in these
4 facilities has been a very difficult situation.
5 All you have to do is come up to northern New
6 York, and there's a facility that borders my
7 district. The Senator is sitting on my right
8 who represents the area, and I live in the -- is
9 the "catchment" area the right word?
10 Right. I live in that area where
11 that facility provides a very, very fine
12 service. As I mentioned to you, at one time,
13 there were 2,000 people in that facility.
14 That's bigger than our cities up our way.
15 Now, this day and age, that
16 facility now has less than 300 people. Now,
17 interestingly enough, I've had people in the
18 mental health field come in and sit there and be
19 rather direct with me and point to me and say,
20 "You can't keep these facilities open. This is
21 ridiculous what you're doing."
22 Now, fortunately -- as I
23 mentioned before, there was not funding for
7020
1 Kingsboro -- the Senate has been able to restore
2 and save the facility. Next year is next year.
3 We can't tell what will happen next year.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
5 Gold.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman
7 yield to a question?
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
10 will you yield to one more question?
11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Stafford,
12 can you tell me how many people are in the
13 Kingsboro facility now?
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: No.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Can you tell me
16 how many employees they have?
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. Wait a
18 minute. Wait a minute. I will, though. A
19 thousand employees and 400 patients.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator, can
21 you tell me the result of this downsizing? If
22 we are going to now appropriate $2.5 million to
23 this facility out of the 7 million it needs, can
7021
1 you tell me what that means in terms of how many
2 employee slots they would lose and, therefore,
3 how many patients they would be able to take
4 care of?
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I think
6 this. I think that I have pointed out that
7 there is a very serious situation here, and I
8 don't think it takes a -- well, it might. I
9 don't know whether it would or not. But I don't
10 think it's very difficult to understand, as I
11 have said, that this is a very, very difficult
12 situation and that at the present time Kingsboro
13 is being considered, that it is being saved at
14 this time.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Gold.
17 SENATOR GOLD: If the Senator
18 will yield? But, Senator -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
20 will you yield?
21 SENATOR GOLD: I'm just trying to
22 find out. Right now, I'm told there's a
23 thousand employees. I'm told there's about 400
7022
1 patients.
2 And what I'm trying to find out,
3 Senator, is if we cut some $4500 out of that
4 budget and if we only allow them the 2.5
5 million, how many employees will that leave to
6 remain and how many patients can they take care
7 of?
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I think
9 the answer is that this appropriation will take
10 care of the facility, and the number of patients
11 they can take care of is what the facility will
12 handle. They had 3,000 patients at one time.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
15 Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
17 yield to another question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
19 will you yield for another question?
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 yields.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I know
7023
1 that there's about $15.5 million added. It
2 says, "to undo the OASAS block grant program
3 which had been bundled," and now this does some
4 unbundling. Can you explain to me exactly what
5 that means?
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: "Unbundling,"
7 that usually means separating, and that's what's
8 being done.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator, in
10 doing the separations, I understand that one
11 thing that may be an advantage from it is that
12 some of the community-based programs will now be
13 able to get their funding in the normal way. Is
14 that correct?
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if
17 that is the case -- and the aim is something
18 which I might very well support. My
19 understanding is it requires about $45 million
20 statewide to take care of these programs. How
21 do we make up the other $30 million?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: It is not 45
23 million that it will take. It will take 42
7024
1 million.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Fine. How do we
3 make it up?
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: We're just
5 putting 15 of the 42 back.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I
7 understand that, so it's the same question be it
8 42 or 45. If the idea of unbundling is to get
9 the community projects back online so that they
10 can make their normal applications and provide
11 the services, we are still something like $27
12 million short, Senator. How do those community
13 programs get funded?
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, we will
15 just have to consider as we progress and have to
16 meet those challenges as we go down the road.
17 This is the whole story of our budget.
18 You know, I can remember -- I can
19 remember when really programs like this,
20 communities were told they were going to take a
21 program, and they'd say, "Well, we don't really
22 need it," and they'd say, "No, you're going to
23 have a program. Things have changed.
7025
1 And there is a situation here
2 where funding is a problem. There is no
3 question about it. If this state is going to be
4 competitive, if we're going to have a state
5 where we have 100,000 more jobs this year than
6 we had last year -- which we do have -- rather
7 than being almost last in job creation, and if
8 we're going to stop having a situation -- and I
9 don't mean to embarrass the lady on my right.
10 But just completely, completely not connected
11 with what we're debating here today, we were
12 talking about a mutual friend who worked for a
13 company, and one time there was an electronic
14 company in Western New York and there was a
15 company that was connected with them working on
16 airplanes, and there was another company that -
17 engineering -
18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, are they
19 the ones putting up the 27 million?
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: -- and they
21 were doing research, and now they are all gone.
22 They left. They left in the late '70s, and that
23 happened year after year after year, and that is
7026
1 why we're having to look at funding to make some
2 very, very hard choices and people are going to
3 have to work smarter, harder and friendlier.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6 Gold.
7 SENATOR GOLD: I wanted to
8 continue, but can I yield for one question to
9 Senator Onorato, please?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
11 Onorato.
12 SENATOR ONORATO: Madam
13 President, will Senator Stafford yield to a
14 question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Stafford will yield to a question.
17 SENATOR ONORATO: I'm getting a
18 little mixed up with the questioning that's
19 going on here. I'm a little concerned about the
20 fact -- are you aware that Kings County is the
21 largest county in the State of New York with
22 almost 3 million people?
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, and if
7027
1 Kings County was by itself, it would be the
2 eighth largest city in the nation.
3 SENATOR ONORATO: Now, can you
4 explain to me how a county with almost 3 million
5 people in it can operate with a budget of $2.5
6 million? Will that not contribute, again, to
7 the increasing homeless population that we have
8 in the city of New York, putting this type of
9 person back onto the street without having a
10 facility to take care of them?
11 And can any other facility in the
12 state -- have they also received this type of a
13 downsizing, or are we picking on downstate New
14 York's mental hospitals for cutbacks to again
15 increase the problems that we are already
16 overwhelmed with?
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
19 Stafford.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
21 President.
22 Senator, you asked that question
23 with gusto.
7028
1 SENATOR ONORATO: That's right.
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will answer
3 it with gusto. I hope you were listening when I
4 explained we have a hospital in Upstate New York
5 that used to have 2,000 people. It now has -
6 patients. It now has less than 300, and there's
7 a real, real problem on exactly how you handle
8 this. Kingsboro used to have 3,000 patients and
9 1,000 employees. It now has 1,000 employees and
10 430 inpatients.
11 Now, we can ask all sorts of
12 questions, and we can be just as boisterous as
13 we want to, but we got to look at this and see
14 exactly what we're going to do and make some
15 hard choices here and decide where we're going
16 to spend our money and how the treatment is
17 going to be provided, and it's happening all
18 over the state, not just upstate, not just the
19 metropolitan area, but all over the state of New
20 York.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Gold, Senator Montgomery -
7029
1 SENATOR GOLD: I have one last
2 question of the Senator.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: One last
4 question.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you are
6 from Plattsburgh, New York; correct?
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Thank you.
9 No further questions.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
11 you, Senator Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: One more
14 question.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: On the
17 question, Senator Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: I think the point
19 that I just made is really a very easy one; and
20 that is, that my distinguished colleague who is
21 so much younger than I am has no problem in the
22 world answering questions. You guys are
23 fooled. When he wants to answer it, he can
7030
1 answer it. He can take a question with a lot of
2 words, "Senator, is it a fact that you come from
3 Plattsburgh?" and answer in one word, "Yes."
4 It's easy. He knows how to do it.
5 The fact is that he doesn't want
6 to answer the other questions because they won't
7 deal with an embarrassment, and I don't blame
8 him. He is a gentleman. Senator, we're all
9 ready to make hard choices. But when we make
10 the hard choice, what in the heck is wrong with
11 looking people in the eye and saying, "Yes,
12 that's my choice. It's a hard choice. We're
13 closing Kingsboro, but we're going to do it a
14 year from now because it may be a little
15 easier. We may cut it down, make it so it can't
16 breathe and then tell you it's dying so we'll
17 close it."
18 At least you'd say, "Well, look
19 at that man. That is my friend Ron Stafford.
20 By God, hard choices. He stands up like a man
21 and he'll tell it to you."
22 Senator, when it comes to the
23 local drug programs, many of us are very
7031
1 concerned about it. We're concerned about it
2 because we feel that on a day-to-day basis they
3 do good work. Well, the Governor's program, I
4 think, would have hurt them terribly. You throw
5 a couple of bones in there and maybe it will do
6 a little better. But, Senator, they are going
7 to be short $27 million, which is a lot of money
8 to these programs.
9 And if you are doing that,
10 Senator, because you are making a hard choice
11 then stand up and say, "Manny, look, it's a hard
12 choice. You're right, and I will take the knock
13 that there is 27 million missing, but I will get
14 the credit, Senator Gold, because I'm adding in
15 15 million and we're trying to do the right
16 thing."
17 The biggest problem we always
18 have with the Majority Party in this house -
19 and I know Senator Bruno always says we
20 shouldn't be partisan, and, of course, he never
21 is. But the biggest problem we have is just
22 pulling teeth to get you to admit what you are
23 doing, and that's what I don't understand.
7032
1 There are principles we all run
2 on. There are principles we all say we stand
3 for, and if that's what is behind the budget and
4 if that's what you believe in, then say it and
5 vote for it and walk out of here, and
6 everybody's blood pressure will be down nice and
7 low because everybody is doing what they say is
8 in the best interests of the people.
9 The mystery is you don't do
10 that. You don't. The discussion that went on
11 earlier today between our distinguished
12 colleague Senator Padavan and our distinguished
13 colleague Senator Leichter is amazing. It's
14 amazing. On the one hand, you are spending
15 money which some of us agree should be spent
16 and, obviously, you agree it should be spent
17 because you are the ones spending it, and yet
18 you seem to wish that all of these lights were
19 turned out so you could do it in the dark,
20 because you are going to run home and tell
21 people that for the second year in a row you
22 spent less money, whatever.
23 Now, that isn't true. What's
7033
1 true is you are spending it. What's true is
2 that you are closing Kingsboro, unfortunately,
3 within a year. What's true is that you are
4 going along with a process which may very well
5 damage local community drug programs; and if
6 that's a hard choice and you've got to do it,
7 then you propose it. We will either agree or
8 not agree, but let's at least answer the
9 questions with the same pride, Senator Stafford,
10 as you say, "Yes, I'm from Plattsburgh."
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
12 Gold.
13 Senator Montgomery.
14 Senator Gold, have you
15 completed? Are you finished?
16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator. Senator
17 Stafford, with the same sense of humor that you
18 have I remember somebody who asked the judge -
19 while he was questioning a witness on the stand,
20 the judge was making faces at the jury and
21 nodding his head one way or the other; and,
22 finally, the lawyer couldn't stand it any more.
23 He said, "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I
7034
1 want to assure you that when the judge nods his
2 head, there's nothing in it."
3 Now, what he meant was a little
4 something different; and, Senator, it's okay.
5 If you nodded your head, I still accept it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
7 you, Senator Gold. Senator Montgomery is next.
8 Senator Montgomery is next.
9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam
10 President. I wonder if Senator Stafford would
11 clarify something for me?
12 Senator Stafford, you said that
13 one man's ceiling is another man's floor, and I
14 was just wondering do you mean that you are
15 walking on my grave? That's sort of a feeling
16 that I got. My ceiling is your floor.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, Madam
18 President. First, as we talk here it's always
19 good to keep your sense of humor, but I take
20 very seriously this issue for you and for
21 Senator Gold and everyone, just like I do with
22 the problems we're having upstate.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
7035
1 Thank you, Senator.
2 SENATOR STAFFORD: That just goes
3 to show that it's how we interpret things.
4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: That's
5 right.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator Gold
7 said what he heard in court. I was in Vermont
8 in Federal Court the other day, and they were
9 questioning this Vermonter, and they said to
10 him, "Sir, have you lived all your life here in
11 Vermont?" He said, "Not yet." So he actually
12 -- he knew more than some of us. But the point
13 is, it's how we interpret it. We can't exactly
14 know what's going to happen, Senator. I would
15 say this. Having facilities in my own area, and
16 I do -- just like you do -- and take it very
17 seriously just like you do. If there is funding
18 to keep it going, then that's encouraging.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
20 Madam President, just if I can ask -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
22 Montgomery.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
7036
1 Stafford, I believe Kings County is the largest
2 county in the state. Is your proposal based on
3 an assessment of the need in the county of Kings
4 for a psychiatric facility? Have you come to
5 the conclusion based on your needs assessment
6 and analysis of Kings County and the people in
7 Kings County that we don't need a facility in
8 the largest county in the state?
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: I mentioned I
10 understand being the largest county. Also I
11 mentioned earlier if Brooklyn was by itself, not
12 part of the great city of New York, it would be
13 the eighth largest city in the nation.
14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Exactly.
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Now, I also
16 would point out -
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Our borough
18 president says it would be the fifth. So I take
19 his word -
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: I think the
21 figures have been revised, because I looked it
22 up just before I came here because I thought
23 that might come up. But I could be wrong. I
7037
1 could be wrong. I might have gotten some
2 misinformation, but as I pointed earlier -
3 again, not making light of this, but I mention
4 it. I mention it, and I say this again because
5 it drives the point home about people not being
6 in the facility. But my friend from first grade
7 to high school -- getting out of high school,
8 his mother was in a facility. Different
9 treatment, different medicine, she came home
10 when we were in college and she's been home for
11 a long time. She's alive. She's very elderly
12 now, and she was very normal.
13 My point is, there she was in the
14 facility, came home, and lived as the husband -
15 excuse me, as the wife and, of course, most of
16 her children by then had left home -- or they
17 all had. My point is she wasn't at the facility
18 any more that was making it possible for them to
19 have 2,000 people. Again, it is serious.
20 A thousand employees anywhere in
21 this state is important and, yes, the treatment
22 is important; but when you have 430 patients
23 where you used to have 3,000, it's a tough,
7038
1 tough issue and -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
3 Montgomery.
4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If the
5 Senator would continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
7 will you continue to yield?
8 Senator continues to yield.
9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
10 President, I would like for Senator Stafford to
11 give me what your proposal does. Have you not
12 proposed that we also eliminate five community
13 based mental health programs, and will you tell
14 me whether or not you have fully restored the
15 community reinvestment funding which will allow
16 us to develop some community facilities?
17 What do you do about the
18 community reinvestment funding and what do you
19 do about the five other facilities related to
20 Kings County that are also slated to be closed?
21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Very fair
22 question?
23 Once again, the community
7039
1 reinvestment, many of us have been involved in
2 the community reinvestment program. As a matter
3 of fact, there are colleagues on both sides of
4 the aisle that have had a great deal to do,
5 yourself included. There was no funding and we
6 now have provided funding for one half, 2.5
7 million -- here's a gentleman who is been
8 working on it.
9 And I would only say once again
10 -- once again, it's the availability of funds,
11 and these decisions are difficult. Where do you
12 place the funding? I hesitate to say this but
13 yet providing funding is better than not
14 providing it, and 12.5 million is better than
15 zero. So we're addressing the situation under
16 difficult circumstances and, again, not having
17 the funding that we would need to do more.
18 Now, with the five programs you
19 mentioned, we understand that the five programs
20 will remain online, but there may be a change as
21 far as one of the hospitals is concerned,
22 Kingsboro Hospital.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
7040
1 President, I hear Senator Stafford saying that
2 the funding for the five community-based mental
3 health centers that are connected to Kingsboro
4 Psychiatric Center are going to be funded at
5 their full level as '94-95.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Once again,
7 you are getting right to the point and you
8 certainly should. Whether they will be fully
9 funded, I certainly wouldn't stand here and give
10 you any misinformation. We'll just have to see
11 what funds are available as we proceed
12 throughout the fiscal year.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
15 Montgomery.
16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
17 President. Senator Stafford, again, I just want
18 to be clear about the answers that I'm receiving
19 here.
20 I understand him to say that the
21 Community Reinvestment Act is funded at about 50
22 percent of what our commitment was in that
23 program as of last year's memorandum of
7041
1 understanding, which is about 12 million for the
2 entire state. Is that what I hear?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: You are
4 asking Senator Stafford?
5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm asking
6 if that is the answer that Senator Stafford has
7 given?
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. Yes.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator
10 Stafford, with the Community Reinvestment Act
11 cut in half, a reduced funding for the five
12 community-based centers, the funding that you
13 propose is about one-third of what would be
14 required to fully operate Kingsboro Psychiatric
15 Center. Have you made an assessment as to the
16 impact of all of these cuts on our ability in
17 the borough of Brooklyn to provide mental health
18 services to seriously mentally ill people?
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Once again -
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: In the
21 borough of Brooklyn?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: In the borough
23 of Kings.
7042
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If we were
2 able to provide services within the borough of
3 Brooklyn?
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: In the borough
5 of Kings.
6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The borough
7 of Brooklyn in the County of Kings.
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: The borough of
9 Brooklyn in the county of Kings.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, sir.
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. I
12 think we're going to have a situation where
13 we're going to be relying on professionals that
14 are going to have to make, again, hard choices,
15 and I say this -- we've said it about all of us
16 who are in government and frankly -- frankly,
17 this has happened in the private sector also.
18 People are going to have to work harder. They
19 are going to have to work smarter and they are
20 going to have to work friendlier, all of us, and
21 I think we're going to have to do our best to
22 provide as much as we can as far as services are
23 concerned. I think this is very serious, but I
7043
1 would only -
2 But I would point out once again
3 that it would be -- again, it would be just
4 ridiculous. For instance, it would be good if
5 we could have a teacher for every student. We
6 can't. We can't afford it. We have done a lot
7 in this state that we couldn't afford, and we've
8 had many programs that we couldn't afford.
9 Now, we are doing our best to
10 make sure that these programs remain online, and
11 we will have to rely on the professionals to
12 provide the services.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
14 Madam President, just briefly.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Montgomery briefly.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I want to
18 make a couple of comments if I may to Senator
19 Stafford. I certainly understand that the
20 genesis of this proposal to close that
21 significant facility in the borough of Brooklyn
22 comes from the Governor. So I'm not confused,
23 Senator Stafford.
7044
1 I know you put back a little bit,
2 not enough, but it didn't come from you. You
3 didn't suggest it in the first place, so I want
4 you to know that I understand that.
5 The second thing that I want to
6 say to you is that we're talking about equal
7 access to services, so we want equal access to
8 mental health services in the borough of
9 Brooklyn just like you have in Watertown and in
10 your district and in the districts throughout
11 the state.
12 And the third thing that I want
13 to say is that your budget proposal is based on
14 certainly not enough information, no
15 intelligence, no analysis of the impact this
16 will have on, one, the ability to deliver
17 services in the borough, how many, what is the
18 need right now, whether or not we're even able
19 to serve the need that we have now and not to
20 mention the fact that we're looking at an area
21 of Brooklyn that under optimal circumstances
22 might be considered a medical center. We have
23 the SUNY Downstate Medical School and Hospital,
7045
1 Kingsboro Hospital, Kings County Hospital and
2 the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, all within a
3 six blocks radius of each other. Extremely
4 important area, and we need to be talking about
5 ways in which we can bring that whole center
6 into the next century in terms of delivering
7 health care from mental health services to
8 services to the elderly, services to health care
9 in general.
10 So rather than just saying,
11 "We're going to decide arbitrarily to cut
12 two-thirds of the budget of this major
13 institution without any planning, without any
14 analysis, and be damned what happens to the
15 borough of Brooklyn, we don't really care if you
16 can deliver those services because they can just
17 transport themselves to hither and yon,
18 wherever, and that's just fine with us because
19 we have to save a dollar" -- and that is really
20 the problem I have with this proposal.
21 It is not based on sound
22 analysis, and we should not be making decisions
23 of this magnitude to have that kind of impact on
7046
1 the largest county in the state without more
2 information.
3 So I would have to oppose this
4 because it says to me that we don't care about
5 people, and we can not afford to take that
6 position and have that attitude, and we're not
7 AT&T. We're the state of New York and we're
8 bound by a Constitution that says we must have
9 some level of safety net for people in this
10 state.
11 And so that's my comment on this,
12 and I will vote later on it.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
14 you, Senator Montgomery.
15 Senator Stafford.
16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would just
17 very briefly want to point out and I do this
18 with all of the camaraderie that I can muster
19 here. You know, I have lived in upstate. We
20 have this problem in Poughkeepsie. We have this
21 problem in Binghamton. We have this problem in
22 Ogdensburg. I could go on and on.
23 How do I know that I can name
7047
1 them off like that. In upstate, if it was ever
2 said that you were going to Ogdensburg, if you
3 were going to Binghamton, if you were going to
4 Poughkeepsie, do you know what it meant? It
5 meant something very, very sad, but we all knew
6 where those facilities are and we all knew what
7 it meant.
8 All of those facilities are
9 having the same problem. What is the one on
10 Long Island? What is the one on Long Island?
11 The same in that, in other areas of the state.
12 Now, what I'm attempting to say
13 here, just exactly the problem that you are
14 bringing out and bringing out very well is the
15 same in every one of the facilities that I just
16 mentioned. It's very difficult but, again,
17 treatment has changed, medicine has changed, and
18 community residence treatment, and we are having
19 to make difficulty decisions in all the areas of
20 the state, not just in the county of Kings and
21 the borough of Brooklyn.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
23 Abate.
7048
1 SENATOR ABATE: Madam President.
2 Would Senator Stafford yield to a question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
4 Stafford, will you yield for a question?
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes.
7 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Stafford,
8 you talked about the goals of your budget
9 proposal were to be -- to use your words -
10 "smarter," "more intelligent," "more friendly"?
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: I never use
12 intelligent.
13 SENATOR ABATE: No, never
14 intelligent?
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't use
16 that word.
17 SENATOR ABATE: Would smart be a
18 good -
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
20 SENATOR ABATE: That we should do
21 things that are smarter. To that end, I would
22 like to ask a couple of questions to see if, in
23 fact, this proposal is really smarter.
7049
1 How many psychiatric beds are
2 there throughout the state, beds, residential
3 beds for the mentally ill?
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: People that
5 are in the beds or beds available if you wanted
6 to fill every bed.
7 SENATOR ABATE: Operating beds.
8 Operating beds.
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Seven or eight
10 thousand statewide.
11 SENATOR ABATE: Seven or eight
12 thousand statewide. How many of those seven or
13 eight thousand statewide are in New York City?
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: About a
15 third.
16 I have counsel on both sides
17 here, both of them experts.
18 SENATOR ABATE: Where are the
19 third located in New York City?
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: In the five
21 psychiatric centers. In the five psychiatric
22 centers in the City.
23 SENATOR ABATE: That's broader
7050
1 than New York City, though. That's dealing with
2 Long Island and other places. That's not just
3 New York City.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Kingsboro has
5 its own psychiatric center. That's five. How
6 many boroughs do you have?
7 SENATOR ABATE: Five boroughs.
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: How many would
9 that be if you had one in each borough?
10 SENATOR ABATE: You would have
11 five psychiatric.
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. So you
13 got it.
14 SENATOR ABATE: What is the total
15 population of those five psychiatric centers? I
16 want to arrive at the fact that it's one-third.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: 2500, 500 a
18 piece average.
19 SENATOR ABATE: 2500. And to
20 follow up with what Senator Montgomery had
21 raised, there is a huge population of people
22 throughout New York City.
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Throughout the
7051
1 whole state, as a matter of fact.
2 SENATOR ABATE: And throughout
3 the whole state.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: In fact,
5 there's only eight million in New York City;
6 there's 18 -- there's 10 million outside of New
7 York City.
8 SENATOR ABATE: Would the Senator
9 continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
11 will you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
14 yields.
15 SENATOR ABATE: My understanding,
16 that more than one-third of the severely
17 mentally impaired residents of New York State
18 lie in New York City, that in fact there aren't
19 enough right now, psychiatric beds, and there
20 are clearly not enough community-based mental
21 health organizations to support those
22 individuals now in New York City.
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
7052
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes,
3 Senator Stafford.
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would point
5 out in answering -- once again, I do this
6 realizing that you also take this very
7 seriously. It's how we understand it. It's how
8 we're treating people. You got people in the
9 field that don't think people should be going to
10 these hospitals.
11 SENATOR ABATE: But, Senator,
12 would you yield to a question?
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
14 SENATOR ABATE: The issue and my
15 understanding is 60 percent of the severely
16 mentally ill lie in New York City, 60 percent,
17 and you are saying to me that one-third of all
18 the psychiatric beds lie in New York City, so
19 there's some deficiency, and I don't even know
20 what the analysis is for Brooklyn. What I'm
21 suggesting, if someone is in need of mental
22 health support that may either be in a couple
23 places they can get it, either through in
7053
1 residence psychiatric help, hospitalization, in
2 the community or in the home. Is there any
3 other place that's really acceptable?
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: What about
5 Article 28 hospitals?
6 SENATOR ABATE: Article 28. But
7 that's hospitalization. Beyond that. And so my
8 question, Senator -
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Going to one
10 of these facilities is hospitalization.
11 SENATOR ABATE: Right. But then,
12 Senator, there's such a need -
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Outpatient
14 services, also.
15 SENATOR ABATE: That's what I
16 meant in the community, those community supports
17 or the hospitalization.
18 So my concern is, there is a
19 tremendous need within New York City, far
20 greater than the current existence of beds and
21 community-based programs. My question is, if we
22 are cutting -- and your proposal not only cuts
23 further psychiatric beds in New York City and
7054
1 reduces community reinvestment -- where do these
2 individuals end up?
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator, your
4 point is well taken and that is being asked in
5 every area of the state. And believe you me, I
6 understand the New York City is the greatest
7 city in the world, but an ill person there is no
8 different than an ill person in any other part
9 of this state, and we have the same problems
10 that you are talking about in all of the areas
11 of state. There is a ferocious debate going on
12 in the field. They can't agree when they come
13 in to see me, the care givers and the
14 professionals.
15 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, I agree
16 that there is a need, and I would like to see
17 more money throughout the state through the
18 Community Reinvestment Act restored because
19 there is a need not just in New York City but
20 throughout the state to support people in their
21 homes and in their communities?
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: I won't argue
23 that, and that's why we took it from zero to
7055
1 12.5 million.
2 SENATOR ABATE: And we agree, but
3 my concern -
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Excuse me.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Pardon me.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: If you
8 would direct your question through the chair to
9 the Senator.
10 SENATOR ABATE: But are you
11 aware, Senator, that there are -- 60 percent of
12 the severely diagnosed mentally ill are in New
13 York City, but there is nowhere near -- I mean,
14 traditionally, New York City has been under
15 served in terms of mental health facilities and
16 supports.
17 So by cutting, further, these
18 programs, aren't we really handicapping New York
19 City that much further to a further extent than
20 anywhere else in New York State?
21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will the
22 Senator yield to me asking a question in my
23 answering?
7056
1 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator,
2 will you yield?
3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm a layman
7 compared to this gentleman on my right and a
8 layman compared to the people who work in this
9 field. But are you sharing with me that when we
10 have a psychiatric hospital in each borough of
11 New York City and that would be Richmond -
12 that's Staten Island, right -- and then Kings
13 which is the borough of Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx.
14 SENATOR ABATE: I would love to
15 answer that question.
16 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, wait a
17 minute.
18 SENATOR ABATE: Not yet? Okay.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Manhattan.
20 Where are the Yankees?
21 (Response of "Bronx.")
22 And the Bronx. Right, the
23 Bronx. Now, are you sharing with me here this
7057
1 evening at 6:32 and a half, June 10, if there is
2 a facility in each one of those boroughs
3 compared to other parts of this state, New York
4 City is underserved?
5 SENATOR ABATE: I would love to
6 respond to that, Senator. That's a question?
7 Okay. Yes, and I do appreciate
8 the question.
9 Yes, and let me tell you from
10 what perspective I speak. I remember at Rikers
11 Island doing some statistics on the 120,000
12 people that walked in and out those doors.
13 Would believe that 25 percent of the people that
14 were admitted to Rikers Island were in need of
15 mental health services?
16 And there's another statistic.
17 The people with mental health needs -
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Can I ask one
19 more question?
20 SENATOR ABATE: -- these are
21 people in jail that we spend $60,000 a year -
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Would you
23 yield for a question?
7058
1 SENATOR ABATE: -- because
2 there's no community programs.
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will the
4 Senator yield for a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6 Abate, will you yield for a question?
7 SENATOR ABATE: Can I first
8 respond to the question?
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means.
10 Excuse me.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Thank
12 you.
13 SENATOR ABATE: It was such a
14 good question I'm going to try to respond to it
15 appropriately. So of the 100,000-some people
16 that came through Rikers Island -- I'm sure you
17 know what Rikers Island is. It's the jail
18 system. One of the parts of the jail system in
19 New York City. It's near the airport, LaGuardia
20 Airport.
21 Anyway, it's a very large
22 correction facility. And so we're talking about
23 25 percent of the people that pass through
7059
1 Rikers Island are in need of mental health
2 treatment, and some of them suffer from very
3 chronic mental illnesses.
4 The judges -- and because there
5 is a great deal of concern. What do you do with
6 people who are incarcerated long periods of
7 time, being charged with misdemeanors? Going
8 back to the judges and also faced with the
9 statistics that the people were serving 6.5
10 times longer than someone else without a mental
11 health history because -- do you understand
12 why? Because the judges said there was nothing
13 they could do with them. There were no hospital
14 beds. There were no community-based programs.
15 So the only thing the judges would say if they
16 had a mental health problem let them stay in
17 Rikers Island because we had no other solution.
18 So my suggestion is, is that
19 smart, Senator Stafford? Is that cost
20 effective? Instead of putting money in
21 community-based programs and limited psychiatric
22 hospital units, we're willing to spend $60,000 a
23 year to house someone at Rikers Island because
7060
1 there is no other option in the community to
2 deal with these individuals.
3 So it seems to me -- we use this
4 phrase over and over again. Isn't this penny
5 wise and pound foolish?
6 How can we not afford -- this is
7 my question if the Senator could yield to one
8 last question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Yes,
10 Senator yields to one last question.
11 SENATOR ABATE: How can we not
12 afford in human terms and in dollar terms not to
13 keep the facilities and the community-based
14 programs available in the City of New York?
15 Because we're either going to pay for it in the
16 front end, which is a lot fewer dollars than in
17 the back end when we're talking $60,000 per
18 person per year. That buys a lot of treatment.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would answer
20 the distinguished Senator from Manhattan this
21 way by making -
22 SENATOR ABATE: Not from Brooklyn
23 but from Manhattan.
7061
1 SENATOR STAFFORD: I said
2 Manhattan.
3 SENATOR ABATE: You're right.
4 Absolutely right, and I'm not from Plattsburgh.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Pardon me?
6 SENATOR ABATE: I'm not from
7 Plattsburgh.
8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, that's
9 unfortunate. Now, I had a friend of mine who
10 was in Corrections, and he was in Correction 52
11 years. He retired when he was about -- he
12 started before he was 21, but he was a warden
13 for 22 years, and he said this was a hard
14 figure, seventy -- and that is your field, and
15 this is how you can debate this. You know,
16 medicine isn't an exact science. I found that
17 out. You know, when you have doctors working
18 and things work out, and you have doctors right
19 in front of you argue, and you start realizing
20 that, you know, it's -- it isn't exact. This
21 field isn't exact. He said 75 percent of the
22 people that are incarcerated didn't -- he said
23 this now -- didn't needs bars; they needed
7062
1 mental health -
2 SENATOR ABATE: Amen.
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: -- services.
4 That was a fellow who was considered one of the
5 hard wardens of the state.
6 Now, to answer your question.
7 It's a very good question, because I, of course,
8 am familiar with correction facilities myself,
9 and I know that there are people professionally
10 in the field that feel very strongly the need
11 for these services that you are referring to in
12 these facilities. Once again -- and, you know,
13 it's very difficult to stand here and to -- not
14 difficult, but it's unfortunate that we have to
15 stand and say, you know, we can only do what we
16 can afford and we can only provide the services
17 that we can afford and they are hard decisions
18 that have to be made, where we provide the
19 services, and you are very well versed in the
20 field, and the professionals can debate this and
21 not agree.
22 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you,
23 Senator.
7063
1 Just a moment on the bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: On the
3 bill, Senator Abate.
4 SENATOR ABATE: Where we depart
5 -- and I think sincerely, Senator Stafford, you
6 are absolutely committed. You understand the
7 concerns of communities throughout the state and
8 the need to supply critical services for people
9 who suffer from mental illness.
10 But where we depart and why I can
11 not support the Senate budget proposal is that
12 we can not afford today to take money away from
13 community reinvestment and to close needed
14 psychiatric beds.
15 The pennies we save today, we
16 will spend threefold, maybe fourfold, tomorrow;
17 and where will we spend those dollars?
18 The mentally ill who can not stay
19 in homes because their families can not take
20 care of them will end up on the street. They
21 will end up, in the best possible circumstances,
22 in homeless shelters and that will cost enormous
23 amount of dollars to municipalities throughout
7064
1 this state.
2 It will affect -- if more
3 mentally ill are on the street, it will affect
4 the quality of life of neighborhoods throughout
5 the state.
6 And then the worst scenario that
7 there will be some mentally ill persons who do
8 not receive the care and support they need will
9 end up in jail systems throughout the state at
10 an enormous cost to the localities.
11 So for the couple dollars that we
12 need to invest in today, we will save not only
13 neighborhoods, we will save lives. We will
14 reduce the havoc that will be created throughout
15 communities in this state.
16 So I, like you -- it's not just a
17 New York City issue. The issue of investing in
18 mental illness is a statewide issue. We can not
19 turn our backs. It's one of the critical goals
20 of government, and we have to find that first
21 dollar. If we don't, all of us will suffer in
22 the long run.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
7065
1 Dollinger.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
3 President, there is an amendment at the desk.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Amendment
5 at the desk.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd waive its
7 reading and ask to be heard on the amendment.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Waive its
9 reading. Would you like to explain the
10 amendment?
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. This
12 amendment has four parts to it and gives the
13 Majority an opportunity to follow through on
14 what I heard were its promises today.
15 Senator Bruno talked about the
16 effect of this budget on mental health and said
17 that this budget improved the status of mental
18 health in this state.
19 Senator Padavan said that this
20 budget as presented by the Majority was a
21 reflection of what you had heard from the
22 people.
23 Well, let me tell you what we
7066
1 have heard from the people because this
2 amendment addresses the difference between hard
3 choices and no choice at all. This amendment
4 would do the following.
5 It will put $4 million into the
6 South Beach program in Staten Island, which will
7 continue the commitment to South Beach and also
8 allow the clinics that are open throughout the
9 city of New York to remain open -- $4 million.
10 It will commit $4.3 million to
11 the Kingsboro Psychiatric Center. In addition
12 to the 2.5 million that's been restored by the
13 majority, this will fully fund the operation of
14 Kingsboro. It will save the jobs of the
15 employees there, but, more importantly, it will
16 continue financing Kingsboro so they can
17 continue to serve the approximately 400 or so
18 inpatients that they currently have and continue
19 their outpatient program, as well.
20 Three, this will fully commit us
21 to the Community Reinvestment Act. The Majority
22 has proposed that we restore 12.5 million. That
23 is not enough. That is what the people of this
7067
1 state have told us. It's not enough money to
2 make community reinvestment a reality in this
3 state.
4 I can remember one of the best
5 speeches I heard, one of the most effective
6 polemics I heard on this floor, came from
7 Senator Spano two and a half years ago when the
8 Hudson Valley Psychiatric Center was at issue,
9 and he made an impassioned case for community
10 reinvestment to keep the dollars in the
11 communities.
12 Well, if you pass this budget
13 without this amendment, you are not going to
14 keep those savings in the communities. You will
15 make community reinvestment a mere farce. Make
16 it a reality. Put the 22.5 million back to
17 work. Make community reinvestment fulfill the
18 promise that this body made two and a half years
19 ago when we committed ourselves to community
20 reinvestment. Keep that commitment.
21 ADAP is the third piece. This
22 program will provide $10 million more for the
23 prescription drug portion of the ADAP program.
7068
1 This will allow people who do not qualify for
2 Medicaid to get $10 million to help them in
3 obtaining prescription drugs to deal with the
4 opportunistic infections that often plague
5 people with HIV. This is a step to make the
6 formula work, to give those who are fighting for
7 their lives the opportunity for help so that
8 they don't have to impoverish themselves to get
9 the prescription drugs they need. It's $10
10 million.
11 The last piece is very simple.
12 If there is a flaw in this budget as it is
13 proposed by the Governor and as it's proposed by
14 the Majority, it's that it transfers
15 responsibilities from the state to the counties
16 and doesn't give them the money to fulfill that
17 promise.
18 What am I talking about? Local
19 public health, primary care clinics,
20 immunizations, the TB program. You have
21 proposed putting 3 million of the 10 million
22 that was cut by the Governor. Let's put 90
23 percent of it back. Give $6 million more to
7069
1 local public health. Increase the total
2 appropriation to 9 million, and we will be able
3 to fulfill our responsibilities as a state for
4 the people of this state for simple issues of
5 public health, immunizing our children and
6 providing primary care.
7 NYSAC favors this. The city of
8 New York favors this restoration, because they
9 know if you don't do it communities are going to
10 have to raise local property taxes. All we're
11 doing is passing another one of the things we're
12 famous for, the things this Majority is famous
13 for, another form of unfunded mandates to our
14 local communities.
15 I'll also address the issue that
16 Senator Padavan brought out. How do you pay for
17 it? It's very simple. The total cost is about
18 $50 million.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
20 Background noise, please. Please keep the
21 background noise down.
22 Senator.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
7070
1 Madam President.
2 How do you do it? We can find
3 the $50 million. We have been revising the
4 revenue projections since the dawn of this
5 year. We can find $50 million more. Come up
6 with a tax amnesty program that works. New
7 Jersey has found it successful. It will be
8 successful here. It will generate additional
9 revenue that can easily pay this 50 million.
10 Simply readdress the revenue estimates in this
11 budget. We can find the 50 million.
12 But the critical piece that you
13 should all recognize is that this may be a hard
14 choice for us, but look at the people who will
15 be affected by this amendment. They have no
16 choice at all. What may be a hard choice for us
17 is no choice for them.
18 Give the people who need
19 immunizations a choice. Give the people who
20 need primary care a choice. Give the people who
21 are afflicted with HIV who need prescription
22 drugs, give them a choice. Give community
23 investment to the people who need those
7071
1 resources, mental health people in our cities
2 and our communities. Give them a choice. Give
3 the people at Kingsboro and the people who
4 depend on South Beach a choice, as well.
5 If you listen to the people, you
6 have no alternative but to give the people of
7 this state this choice. At $50 million, we can
8 find the money, and it's well worth it.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
10 question is on the amendment.
11 Senator Abate.
12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. On the
13 amendment. I support the amendment, and I just
14 would like to address one part of the amendment
15 which is the ADAP program, which is the AIDS
16 Drug Assistance Program.
17 On December 31, 1995, our
18 government failed 10,000 people, and these are
19 10,000 people who were enrolled in ADAP; and
20 because ADAP up to that point and up to this
21 point is a federally-funded program that serves
22 people with AIDS who want to work and are not
23 Medicaid eligible -- they are taxpayers, but
7072
1 they do not make enough money to buy the
2 prescription drugs, the psychotropic drugs, the
3 vitamin supplements and mineral supplements
4 necessary to keep them alive. So what happened
5 at the end of last year?
6 Because the program was so
7 successful, there was no money left. So 70
8 percent of the vitamins and minerals and drugs
9 available to the 10,000 people who want to work
10 and want to be taxpayers and don't want to be
11 become Medicaid eligible were told, "Seventy
12 percent of these drugs are no longer available
13 to you."
14 Now, we can turn our backs and
15 say this is a federal program, even though, year
16 after year, through Ryan White dollars more
17 money comes into the program, even this year, a
18 whole cadre of us went to Washington with
19 Commissioner DeBuono and asked for more money to
20 come to this state. And I believe seven or
21 eight million dollars more is coming to this
22 State to support this program, but it's not
23 enough. There is a gap of 25 million.
7073
1 So what this amendment would do
2 would be, for the first time the state would
3 recognize this is such a critical program and
4 we're going to devote tax -- state tax levy
5 dollars to support this program, and that's what
6 the $10 million would be all about. Up to this
7 point, the state has only spent $400,000 in
8 administrative costs.
9 So if we think it's worthy of
10 people who are disabled, people with AIDS, and
11 they want to work, they want to have dignity,
12 but we also want to make sure they have
13 available to them new drugs that are approved by
14 the FDA like the new proteose inhibitor -- this
15 is a drug that actually may save someone's
16 life. It may mean the difference between life
17 and death. If we give the money to ADAP through
18 this amendment, we are saying to 10,000 people
19 with AIDS who also want to work, who do not want
20 to become Medicaid eligible, we respect them.
21 We care about their health care needs, and we
22 will assure these drugs remain available.
23 This to me is a bipartisan
7074
1 issue. It's not a partisan issue. It's about
2 health. It's about prolonging people's life,
3 and I hope everyone in this chamber will support
4 this amendment.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
6 Abate.
7 Senator Markowitz.
8 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you
9 very much.
10 On the amendment. I really want
11 to congratulate my colleague for offering the
12 amendment, recognizing, of course, the chances
13 of passage like most of the things that we offer
14 which make perfect common sense will go nowhere,
15 into that circular file.
16 But, Senator Stafford, I had the
17 opportunity because of your generosity to visit
18 beautiful Plattsburgh on more than one
19 occasion. Very quiet, very picturesque
20 community. Really a part of small town New York
21 State.
22 Certainly, many of us that live
23 in and represent neighborhoods, communities,
7075
1 somewhat larger and are faced with some of the
2 urban challenges look to Plattsburgh as in some
3 ways an ideal of people that seem to have found
4 for themselves a very quiet, relaxing way of
5 life; and Plattsburgh, at least on the occasions
6 that I have been there, certainly seems to have
7 significantly less problems than communities
8 that are as large as the county of Kings.
9 Having said that, Kingsboro
10 Psychiatric is the only institution that we have
11 in a borough of 2.3 million. I can't accept,
12 nor will I ever accept, that we can't do -- we
13 can do. We can do. Your position and your
14 colleagues' probably is, "Well, we just don't
15 have the funds." We can have the funds.
16 We have to decide. What type of
17 society do we want? What is the proper role of
18 government in New York and across the nation?
19 And that's pretty much the arguments that are
20 occurring today in Washington and here in New
21 York State.
22 I believe that we have a
23 responsibility to provide; and once we make that
7076
1 decision, then we know how to go about getting
2 the funds, obtaining the funds, to provide those
3 services. I certainly don't ever want a member
4 of your family or a member of yours, Senator,
5 next to you ever to be in a position to have
6 relatives in Brooklyn that have to be turned
7 away because we don't have the funds to provide
8 for those greatest in need.
9 I don't accept it, Senator
10 Stafford, and I only hope that my colleagues in
11 the Republican Party recognize that you have an
12 obligation way beyond party affiliation, way
13 beyond a governor, this governor or any
14 governors that have come before him and that
15 will surely come after him; and that is, that we
16 have an obligation, Senator Stafford, to come up
17 with the necessary funding, make the provision
18 and provide it and get it done and provide the
19 services in this state and not cut back,
20 certainly, on those most vulnerable in our
21 society.
22 So I support Senator Dollinger on
23 a tremendous amendment; and as I look to Senator
7077
1 Marchi and some of his wonderful colleagues, I
2 know, Senator Marchi, that since you are
3 impacted like we are in our county that you are
4 going to do the right thing and support Senator
5 Dollinger's amendment, and I thank you.
6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
9 Stafford.
10 SENATOR STAFFORD: I told
11 everyone we weren't going to talk on the
12 amendments, but Senator Markowitz has the
13 ability to get people on their feet.
14 Now, he says it's calm in
15 Plattsburgh, and he said it's just very placid.
16 Well, it was a beautiful summer evening, and a
17 local business was having a dinner, so I
18 announced Senator Markowitz, and he gave them
19 the same speech that he just gave; and if you
20 ever saw a riot in the place, you should have
21 been there. But I got to say he didn't back
22 down. They didn't either, by the way. So there
23 was one time in Plattsburgh when things weren't
7078
1 very calm.
2 Now, let me talk just exactly the
3 way you were talking, Senator. We have to make
4 some tough, solid decisions, and we just can't
5 continue to spend, spend, spend on any field,
6 whether it's education, social services, mental
7 health, any field. We've got to look and decide
8 where the funds are going to go. We don't have
9 them any more. If we kept spending, the way we
10 spent the last 20 years, the state was going to
11 go down the drain. No one would get services.
12 There would be no education, no social services,
13 no infrastructure, no state.
14 I vote no.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
16 Leichter.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam
18 President, Senator Stafford had the ability to
19 get me on my feet on this. But, you know, the
20 one thing that has not been discussed and said
21 -- and I will try to make it brief. But I
22 think that the whole debate so far and I think
23 all of us realize -- you know, this is a
7079
1 charade. It's an exercise in futility;
2 nevertheless, I think it does give expressions
3 to interests, concerns, policies, that
4 particular legislators have and certainly that
5 the two sides of the aisles have.
6 But all of what has not been
7 discussed is the deficit and why we have a
8 deficit. Senator Stafford says we can't keep on
9 spending this way and so on. The fact is that
10 over the last few years, we have reduced state
11 spending, and the fact also is that some of the
12 spending that did occur was driven by the
13 Majority in this house.
14 But the point is the reason that
15 we have a deficit is because you enacted a
16 three-year phased-in income tax that you didn't
17 have the money for. You promised that this was
18 going to generate so many jobs and it was going
19 to increase economic activity.
20 Well, it hasn't done that, and we
21 knew it wouldn't do it because it was more of
22 that same supply-side nonsense that we saw in
23 the Ronald Reagan years that didn't work, that
7080
1 this state tried in 1987 with Cuomo legislative
2 four-year phased-in tax cuts that didn't work.
3 In fact, the job growth last year in New York
4 State was slower than in the last year of the
5 Cuomo administration.
6 So we've got a deficit; and,
7 furthermore, that deficit is driven by this tax
8 cut which was a tax cut that essentially
9 benefited affluent people. Forty percent of the
10 tax cut goes to affluent people. Doesn't go to
11 people in Essex County or Clinton County because
12 there are very few people that could really
13 benefit from that tax cut, but they're paying
14 the price for it.
15 They are paying it in higher real
16 estate taxes. We're paying it down in New York
17 City in higher transportation costs, and you're
18 asking the most vulnerable, fragile part of our
19 population, those people who need mental
20 services to pay for it, because they will not be
21 able to get those services.
22 So you are breaking your
23 promises. You are breaking the promise that
7081
1 this Legislature made, that George Pataki made
2 as a Senator when he voted for the Community
3 Reinvestment Act. That was a promise that I
4 think was a solemn sacred promise that we would
5 take care of those people in need, and we're
6 breaking that promise, and we're doing it to
7 give tax cuts to people who certainly don't need
8 it to the extent that the mentally ill need
9 these services.
10 So I'm going to very happily
11 support this amendment because it says that we
12 keep our word, and we made a commitment to the
13 mentally ill population and we ought to keep
14 it.
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Senator
18 Stafford.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would only
20 point out to my distinguished colleague -- who I
21 would say summers in our area but he does more
22 than that; he also winters in our area, in
23 Wadhams; that's a suburb of Elizabethtown -- and
7082
1 I would emphasize this point. Governor Pataki
2 and with the legislation we passed last year, we
3 had $440 million surplus this year. We're using
4 that for the restoration that we're talking
5 about. We have 100,000 more jobs than we had
6 last year.
7 Between 1989 and 1992, Madam
8 President, we lost 500,000 jobs in this state.
9 I would suggest that it's not a failure but
10 Governor Pataki and with the tax cuts last year
11 we're on the right track.
12 Once again, we can debate. We
13 can have differences of opinion. I think we all
14 have concerns of those who we're considering
15 this evening, the programs, the services that
16 are provided to these individuals, but once
17 again, it's what this state can realistically -
18 realistically provide, and I have mentioned this
19 a number of times.
20 It doesn't make any difference
21 what the program is. If we have a social
22 program in this state but we spent year before
23 last $10 million -- we have 18 million people -
7083
1 California that year has 31 million people, and
2 they spent $7 billion -- excuse me, billion.
3 The next state that has 18 million people,
4 Texas, they spent $2 billion on the program.
5 Now, once again, I know that
6 there is certain apples and oranges and, you
7 know, it's not an exact comparison, but it tells
8 us something. It tells us that we were in real
9 trouble in all the areas of our budget, and we
10 have to make some very difficult choices.
11 And, once again, Madam President
12 -- excuse me. I would emphasize that we're
13 here this evening talking about restoration.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: The
15 question is on the amendment.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
17 the affirmative.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote
19 in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 37,
7084
1 party vote.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Record
3 the party vote. The amendment is defeated.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: Why do
12 you rise, Senator Gold?
13 SENATOR GOLD: I was getting
14 tired. I would like to explain my vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH: To
16 explain your vote.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, I
18 am very, very appreciative of remarks such as
19 are made by Senator Stafford when he says that,
20 you know, we do what we can do. But the thought
21 that comes to my mind are two -- thoughts are
22 two.
23 Number one, there is the child
7085
1 who falls into a well. The television cameras
2 are there; and when the television cameras are
3 there, we will spend a million, two, four, it
4 doesn't matter what, to save that one beautiful
5 life, and we pray that we can save that life.
6 But without the television cameras being there
7 and without the drama when we do a budget, we
8 can't seem to personalize the items and the
9 need.
10 And the second thought that comes
11 to my mind is an attitude which is very
12 prevalent in a society, and I'm not criticizing
13 any society but it's the truth and we know it
14 happens, and that's the attitude of very decent,
15 loving, kind, good people who want to write out
16 a check for charity A or charity B, charity C,
17 and then who get offended if they are approached
18 in the street by a homeless person. They are
19 offended if they see somebody sleeping in the
20 street or -
21 I know we had a bill one year
22 that wanted to bring down the force of
23 government if somebody urinated behind a tree.
7086
1 These people take the attitude, and these are
2 good people, "Why do I have to see it?"
3 ACTING PRESIDENT RATH:
4 Background noise, please.
5 Thank you, Senator.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Why do I have to
7 see it if I gave to charity? The charities are
8 supposed to be dealing with this. Why do I have
9 to look it in the eye?
10 And, Senator Stafford, I guess
11 that really draws the distinction between some
12 of us. There are some people who have spoken
13 today who say that society has an obligation and
14 you got to meet that obligation, and there are
15 some people, well-meaning people, who say this
16 is as much of the obligation society can meet
17 and people have to live with it.
18 Senator, I understand how
19 difficult it is for the Majority in this house
20 to say to Governor Pataki, "Your proposal for
21 this state is insufficient. It is a disaster
22 and, in this particular bill, we must add $350
23 million." I know that's hard for you.
7087
1 On the other hand, Senator, it's
2 very hard for people on this side of the aisle
3 to look at a place like Brooklyn, New York -
4 many of us still haven't gotten over the loss of
5 the Dodgers -- and say that they are not
6 entitled to their own psychiatric center and
7 that that is a real need. It's not a luxury.
8 I vote no.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Gold will be recorded in the negative.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
13 the negative on Calendar Number 1352 are
14 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold,
15 Hoffmann, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez,
16 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson,
17 Stachowski and Waldon. Ayes 41, nays 15.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 Senator Marcellino.
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Will you
22 recognize Senator Nanula, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7088
1 Nanula.
2 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr.
3 President. I'd like to request unanimous
4 consent to be recorded in the negative on
5 Calendar Number 1401.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
7 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Nanula
8 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
9 Number 1401.
10 Senator Hoffmann, why do you
11 rise?
12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I rise for a
13 point of clarification on Calendar Number 1401
14 and 1402. I believe several of my colleagues
15 and I may have been inadvertently recorded
16 incorrectly, and we would just like to make sure
17 for the record. Calendar Number 1401, do you
18 show negative votes recorded for Senators
19 Oppenheimer, Senator Dollinger, Senator Nanula
20 and myself? And Calendar 1402, I believe those
21 same names should all be recorded in the
22 affirmative.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
7089
1 Mr. President.
2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: One second.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
4 Mr. President.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's where
6 we had the confusion. One second, Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Hoffmann, after reviewing the roll calls, were
10 you inquiring of the chair or the Senate
11 Minority Counsel, Senator Hoffmann?
12 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
13 Mr. President.
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President,
15 would you read back those negatives for Counsel?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hoffmann, the desk, after reviewing the roll
18 call at the desk, you were voted in the
19 affirmative on Calendar Number 1401 and in the
20 negative on Calendar Number 1402.
21 You know, as an experienced
22 member of this Senate body, that you have the
23 ability to change those votes as long as we're
7090
1 in session if you'd like to, so the Chair would
2 certainly entertain an application at this time
3 if you had one, to shift your vote.
4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very
5 much, Mr. President.
6 Due to the confusion in the way
7 the numbers were called at the time without
8 having the advantage of a fresh calendar in
9 front of us -
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I
11 apologize for that, Senator Hoffmann. I was not
12 here, so I -
13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I believe I
14 was in error at the time I was recording my own
15 vote and I believe several of my colleagues were
16 similarly in error. I would request unanimous
17 consent to be recorded in the negative on
18 Calendar Number 1401. I would like to be
19 recorded in the affirmative on Calendar Number
20 1402.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection. Senator Marcellino, any objection?
23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: As long as
7091
1 we understand that the confusion was not gener
2 ated from this side of the aisle.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
4 objection, Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar Number 1401, and
6 Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in the
7 affirmative on Calendar Number 1402.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I greatly
9 appreciate that courtesy, Mr. President.
10 Senator Alesi, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
12 President. For entirely dissimilar reasons, I
13 ask for unanimous consent to cast my vote in the
14 negative on 1401.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Alesi
17 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
18 Number 1401.
19 Senator Marcellino, why do you
20 rise?
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Can we take
22 up Calendar Number 1353.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Just
7092
1 before that, could we -- Senator Dollinger, why
2 do you rise?
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
4 President, I would ask also by unanimous consent
5 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
6 Number 1401.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8 objection.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
12 no objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded
13 in the negative on Calendar Number 1401.
14 Secretary will read the title of
15 Calendar Number 1353.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1353, Senate Print 5592-A, Budget Bill, an act
18 making appropriations for the support of
19 government (Transportation, Economic Development
20 and Environmental Conservation budget).
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any
22 Senator wishing to speak on Calendar Number
23 1353?
7093
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Oh, Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Leichter, you wish to speak on Calendar Number
5 1353?
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have an
7 amendment at the desk on Calendar 1353, but if
8 Senator Gold wishes to address the bill.
9 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, just want
10 to make sure you had the right amendment.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Then
12 would you be so kind, Mr. President, to call up
13 my amendment at this time?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Leichter, are you asking that the amendment be
16 offered up at this time?
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendment
19 is offered up. Do you waive the reading of it?
20 Reading of it is waived. You are now afforded
21 the opportunity to explain the amendment.
22 Senator Leichter.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, Mr.
7094
1 President. My colleagues, this is an amendment
2 that addresses the environmental section of this
3 budget bill and provides essentially for the
4 restoration of $4 million to the Department of
5 Economic Conservation, so as to avoid cuts that
6 were contained in the Executive Budget and that,
7 unfortunately, are carried over into the budget
8 of the Senate Majority, cuts that significantly
9 impair the ability of the Department to preserve
10 the air and the water and the environment for
11 all New Yorkers.
12 Senator Stafford in our debate on
13 the previous bill, and you said we were spending
14 too much, we have to cut. I think the people of
15 New York State certainly want us to have a lean
16 government, but I think one thing is clear, that
17 this haphazard cutting, and particularly cutting
18 the environmental protection is one that I think
19 New Yorkers did not vote for, do not support, do
20 not want and, when we talk about restorations, I
21 think one of the restorations that is absolutely
22 necessary is to give DEC the personnel, the
23 power, the tools to protect our environment.
7095
1 So my bill, or my amendment, is
2 very simple, not a big amount of money, but I
3 think, as you go throughout New York State and
4 you see problems, whether it's with Great Kills
5 in Staten Island or in a county where I'm
6 extremely fortunate to have a -- a vacation
7 home, Essex County, there is terrific concern
8 about landfills. There's terrific concern about
9 the pollution of streams and lakes, oceans.
10 There's terrific concern about the air that
11 people breathe and people want DEC to have the
12 necessary and the needed enforcement personnel.
13 So, Mr. President, I move the
14 amendment.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
17 amendment? Hearing none, the question is on the
18 amendment. All those in favor signify -
19 Secretary will call the roll.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
21 the affirmative.
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote in
23 the negative.
7096
1 (The Secretary called the
2 roll. ).
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
4 the party line votes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 37.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 amendment is lost.
8 Secretary will read the last
9 section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll. )
15 THE SECRETARY: Record the
16 negatives. Announce the results when
17 tabulated.
18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar Number 1353 are
20 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Kruger,
21 Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez,
22 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Smith, Stachowski
23 and Waldon. Ayes 42, nays 14. Also Senator
7097
1 Oppenheimer.
2 SENATOR GOLD: You got Paterson
3 no?
4 THE SECRETARY: We withdraw
5 Senator Oppenheimer as a negative and record
6 Senator Paterson in the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 Now, Senator Smith, why do you
10 rise?
11 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I
12 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the
13 negative on Calendar Number 1352.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
15 objection.
16 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
18 no objection, Senator Smith will be recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar Number 1352.
20 Senator Oppenheimer.
21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I request
22 unanimous support to be in the negative on
23 Calendar 1401.
7098
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
2 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
3 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on
4 Calendar Number 1401.
5 Senator Marcellino.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
7 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1355.
8 1355.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read the title to Calendar Number 1355.
11 1355.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1355, Budget Bill, Senate Print 5595-A, an act
14 making an appropriation for the support of
15 government on Legislature and Judiciary Budget.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Leichter.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
20 I believe I have an amendment at the desk. Let
21 me see if I find it.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you
23 like to offer the amendment up at this time,
7099
1 Senator Leichter, waive its reading and ask for
2 an opportunity to explain it? Senator Leichter?
3 Senator Leichter?
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you
6 asking to offer the amendment up at this time,
7 waive the reading and ask an opportunity to
8 explain it?
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: You've guessed
10 my mind, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
12 you. The reading of the amendment is waived.
13 It is offered up, and you are afforded the
14 opportunity to explain it.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Mr.
16 President, some people have accused me of living
17 solely to be able to debate the legislative
18 budget. It is not true, and I must say that I
19 was hoping before my time here expires, which it
20 will I guess some time, that I would see a
21 legislative budget that I would get up and that
22 I would praise and I would say, We have finally
23 recognized our accountability and responsibility
7100
1 to the people of New York. We have an honest
2 legislative budget, and I was really certain
3 last year that 1996 would be that year, that all
4 of us would look and, my God, those of us who've
5 been here for some time would say, Hey, it's a
6 new budget. They really have come up with an
7 honest budget.
8 Now, did I base this on some
9 false hope? Did I have an illusion? No. I
10 relied on Joe Bruno. I relied on the Majority
11 Leader, because last year -- and I'm going to
12 read you from the debate that we had last year.
13 Last year, we had a budget that was in the
14 precisely same form as the budget that we have
15 now. Now it's in precisely the same form as
16 every legislative budget that I've seen. There
17 may be some changes in the numbers, but essen
18 tially what we have in the legislative budget
19 are large raw categories, no itemization. It's
20 a non-budget. It's an exercise in obfuscation
21 and over the years I debated against the legis
22 lative budget. I used to be the only one voting
23 against it. Then Senator Howard Nolan joined
7101
1 me. Now, most of the members of the Minority
2 over the years, Senator Pataki has voted against
3 the legislative budget, but last year I had this
4 debate with Senator Bruno, and I read, and I
5 asked him: "Just so that I'm" -- these are all
6 quotes. "Just so that I'm clear, Senator Bruno,
7 as I understand it, that itemization and that
8 information, that openness that you have
9 committed yourself to, will also be reflected in
10 the legislative budget so that we will see in
11 the legislative budget a degree of itemization
12 that we require from the executive."
13 Senator Bruno answers, quote: "We
14 will provide you, Senator, as much itemization
15 as there is in the Executive Budget. Does that
16 satisfy your requirement that it be as the
17 Executive Budget? Very clear, very direct."
18 However, one year later just another promise of
19 reform, promise of openness, promise of fairness
20 that unfortunately has not been kept.
21 Then I went on, and I -- so that
22 there has been no question, I want to be, if you
23 will, somewhat persistent on this, but I then,
7102
1 in the debate with Senator Bruno, I said and I'm
2 quoting: "But just so that we're clear as to
3 what we mean by an itemized budget, will you
4 agree with me, Senator Bruno, that this budget
5 bill that is before us is not an itemized
6 budget?"
7 Senator Bruno answered: "Well,
8 Senator, I wish I could answer you differently
9 but the agencies of this state report in about
10 the same fashion that we're reporting in this
11 legislative budget." Then he goes on and he
12 says, "but I, with the Governor and the Speaker,
13 are going to try to get more detailed with the
14 agencies, and we are -- and we have direct
15 control over our budget so we are going to have
16 fuller, better disclosure." Then Senator Bruno
17 goes on and he says, when I asked him whether
18 there's going to be back-up material so that we
19 have for the legislative budget what is provided
20 to us for the Executive Budget, he said, and I'm
21 quoting him: "I'm doing some research on this at
22 this very second, Senator Leichter, and my
23 research shows me that we will be very specific
7103
1 and the public expenditure review that we have
2 already indicated that we will support and
3 implement will contain, we believe to your
4 satisfaction, parts of what you are now
5 recommending and discussing."
6 Then he goes on and he says, "I
7 think you will be very happy, very satisfied as
8 will my colleagues here, to see every cent that
9 we spend itemized, so that everyone's salary is
10 itemized, all the expenditures for travel, for
11 office expense, for your district office
12 itemized, and I don't know how much more fully
13 we can disclose than that and, if you have any
14 suggestions, we're going to welcome it and we
15 will be very anxious to see what your amendment
16 contains."
17 Last year, I proposed an
18 amendment very similar to the amendment I'm
19 going to do now. I didn't think that I would
20 have to propose it this year, because as I've
21 just shown you, Senator Bruno was very clear,
22 very precise in stating that we would have an
23 itemized budget.
7104
1 Now, I know this has become, you
2 know, something of a joke. Here goes Leichter
3 again about the itemized budget, but the fact is
4 that it's really a test of how serious we take
5 our responsibility, and it's really a test of
6 whether we consider that this body -- and it's
7 also the Assembly, by the way, so it's the
8 Legislature as such, and I blame the Majority in
9 the Assembly to the same extent that I blame the
10 Majority in this house, but it's how honest
11 we're going to be with the public.
12 Are we going to tell them how we
13 spend our money, show to them that degree of
14 itemization that Senator Bruno committed himself
15 to, or are we going to say, you know, We're the
16 Legislature, we're different? We're above the
17 law. We're not accountable. We're not
18 responsible. We can do what we want to do and,
19 unfortunately, Senator Bruno has answered that
20 question by saying: "All right, I may have made
21 some promises last year, but who's going to hold
22 me to it? Who's going to hold the Legislature
23 to it?"
7105
1 I guess one of the reasons he can
2 get away with it is because the media seems to
3 pay very little attention to this issue and it
4 really goes to the heart of how we function and
5 it -- it really tests our integrity as a
6 legislative body.
7 So, Mr. President, my amendment,
8 as the amendment did last year, and as I'm doing
9 today, sets forth -- it's an itemized budget.
10 It sets forth salaries for the members, it
11 provides what the Majority Leader has, and it
12 gives you, when you look at it, you know what
13 the Legislature is spending its money on.
14 By the way, it's no different
15 than the Congress does. Congress has an extreme
16 -- extremely precise itemization. It's no
17 different than many of our sister states do, and
18 it is an honest budget. By the way, it happens
19 to be less than the budget that -- the
20 legislative budget that is proposed and that is
21 now before us, and I think when you itemize,
22 then you can see what sort of expenditures are
23 really necessary and you can get rid of some of
7106
1 the fat, some of the waste, some of the
2 political patronage that exists and is hidden in
3 the budget.
4 So I just want to say, you know,
5 that those of you like Senator Stafford and
6 you've talked about, you know, we can't continue
7 the spending and so on, well, here's a chance to
8 put your vote where your mouth is, where your
9 commitment is, and it's also your chance to vote
10 for honest government, responsible, accountable
11 and to -- so that if Senator Bruno, for whatever
12 reason, has not carried out the promise that he
13 made on this floor last year, we have the power
14 to do it. Accept this amendment and we will
15 have an itemized budget.
16 Mr. President, I move the bill.
17 I move the amendment.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Dollinger, on the amendment.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly,
21 Mr. President. I've supported Senator Leichter
22 in the past. This comes down to a very simple
23 issue for me. I've heard lectures on the floor
7107
1 of this Senate from lots of people who say we
2 ought to run government like a business. We
3 ought to run it like the private sector.
4 Name me one -- one small
5 corporation, private business, in this state
6 that doesn't itemize its annual expenditures.
7 When you can name one, I will vote against this
8 amendment. Every business does it this way
9 except government, it seems to me, follow that
10 vaunted private sector model that I'm always
11 talked to and people always tell me you run the
12 state government like a business.
13 We don't run our house like a
14 private business. We do it with this decades
15 old, perhaps centuries old budgeting method.
16 Senator Leichter, who probably is not one of
17 what I would call the free market people in this
18 Senate, but nonetheless, he's saying we ought to
19 run our business like every other business in
20 the state.
21 Here's your chance. Vote yes on
22 the amendment.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President.
7108
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Volker, on the amendment.
3 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, very
4 quickly.
5 Senator Dollinger, have you ever
6 really looked at some of the corporate
7 accountings and some of the corporate dossiers
8 prior to these meetings? I think you ought to
9 take a look at them. If you think they're any
10 more detailed than the legislative budget, I've
11 got some news for you. I know a lot of
12 businesses, and I've seen some of the major
13 corporations when they send out some of their
14 prospectuses, because most of the prospectuses
15 they send out that are detailed, are not for
16 public viewing on a lot of occasions, and I
17 think we both know why.
18 Senator Leichter, all I can say
19 to you is, Who says we're not going to get any
20 more detailed budget?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
22 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
23 amendment?
7109
1 Senator Gold on the amendment.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
3 heard the last question that was asked by
4 Senator Volker, and he said to Senator Leichter
5 "And by the way, who said we're not going to
6 get a more detailed budget?"
7 Senator, I guess you're saying
8 it, and your side is saying it. Senator Bruno
9 earlier today said that the budget that he's
10 offering today in all its pieces is the complete
11 budget. Now, if you're telling me that Senator
12 Bruno has another budget bill to explain this
13 budget bill, I would like to know that. I would
14 feel comforted by it.
15 I think, Senator Leichter, the
16 issue this year is different than in other
17 years. In other years, you said to us that you
18 believe that the Legislature owed it to the
19 people to itemize and tell them how we're
20 spending their money. This year I heard
21 something completely different.
22 What I heard you say, Senator
23 Leichter, is that that's not the fight any
7110
1 more. What you said, you said that Senator
2 Bruno conceded to that fight. So the issue
3 before us today is even more significant in that
4 you're telling us, Senator Leichter, that there
5 is the credibility of a legislative leader
6 involved in this vote and that disturbs me,
7 Senator Leichter, because I have argued with
8 Senator Bruno man to man, person to person, many
9 times, and he and I disagree on issues and where
10 they come out, and that's O.K., and I shake his
11 hand and he shakes mine, I hope and we smile at
12 each other and that's fine.
13 This vote is one, I believe, of
14 integrity, and I've always thought Senator Bruno
15 was a person of integrity and I'm hoping,
16 Senator, that before we vote, he will come
17 busting through that door and say, "Franz, I'm
18 sorry, you're right, I said it and we'll change
19 it," and I'm hoping that before we vote he's
20 going to come busting through that door and say,
21 "Please, please, for those of you on my side of
22 the aisle, let's go for this because I said I'd
23 do it, and maybe I shouldn't have said I would
7111
1 do it, but I said it, and as sure as I have a
2 horse that I rode over the week end and got on
3 television with, I'm going to keep my word
4 because people who ride horses keep their
5 word."
6 So, Senator Leichter, I look at
7 the issue as unquestionably being different this
8 year, and I'm certainly going to support your
9 amendment.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
11 Senator wishing to speak on the amendment?
12 Hearing none -
13 SENATOR GOLD: Can we open the
14 door, so Senator Bruno can be on the way in?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
16 none, the question is on the amendment. All
17 those in favor signify by saying aye.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote
19 in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson, did you want to request a party vote?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: No, I did
23 not. I just want to do it over.
7112
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
2 in favor of the amendment signify by saying
3 aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 Opposed nay.
6 (Response of "Nay.")
7 The amendment is defeated.
8 Anybody wishing to speak on the
9 bill?
10 Senator Dollinger, on the bill.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly,
12 on the bill.
13 I'll give every person one reason
14 to vote against this bill. This bill cuts by
15 $27 million dollars in the judiciary department
16 including $14 million worth of funding for
17 vacant positions, and those vacant positions in
18 this state, the best we can estimate, 80 of them
19 are vacant positions in Family Courts throughout
20 this state.
21 I've heard a discussion
22 throughout this session and prior sessions that
23 the Family Courts of this state need help, that
7113
1 they need people to work and that they need
2 people to process our criminal justice system
3 for those in Family Court so that we create an
4 effective deterrent for our young people.
5 It seems to me that, if we don't
6 fund those 80 positions, we're in essence saying
7 we'll let the Family Courts continue to function
8 as they've functioned to this point. We'll let
9 delay be the order of business in our juvenile
10 courts. We'll allow too many kids to slip
11 through the cracks, and we don't dispense the
12 kind of justice we all believe should exist in
13 Family Court in an efficient and cost-effective
14 way.
15 If you believe in the Family
16 Court, and I've heard so many people during the
17 course of this session say how important our
18 Family Courts is -- are. Here's your chance,
19 put your money where your mouth is. Don't cut
20 those positions in Family Courts throughout this
21 state. Of all the places where we need to spend
22 money, we need to put our money into our
23 juvenile justice system. By cutting those 80
7114
1 positions throughout this state, we're taking
2 Family Court backwards instead of forwards.
3 Vote against this bill.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
5 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing
6 none, the Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 35. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll. )
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
13 the results when tabulated.
14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
15 the negative on Calendar Number 1355 are
16 Senators Abate, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Lachman,
17 Leichter, Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Paterson and
18 Smith. Excuse me, Senator Lachman recorded in
19 the negative. Ayes 48. Lachman affirmative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: In the
21 affirmative.
22 SENATOR LACHMAN: Affirmative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7115
1 Paterson, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 I'd like to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Paterson in the affirmative on this bill also.
6 Senator Smith, how are you
7 voting?
8 SENATOR SMITH: In the affirm
9 ative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Smith in the affirmative. Senator Montgomery.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: In the
13 affirmative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: In the
15 affirmative.
16 The Chair would make just the
17 observation that certainly we have a lot of
18 budget bills that we're taking up. There are a
19 lot of amendments, but it's very difficult for
20 the people up here at the desk and you're really
21 trying them intensely. You run in and out, run
22 in and out, up and down and around we go.
23 You're not voting from your seats. It's very
7116
1 difficult, very time-consuming and certainly
2 we're all busy people, and so I would certainly
3 ask the people -- ask all people on both sides
4 of the aisle, all people on both sides of the
5 aisle, and if you're going to register a vote,
6 and you want to take part in the debate, please
7 be in your seats. Please make it easy for the
8 people up here who are trying very hard to
9 record your votes.
10 Announce the negatives.
11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar Number 1355 are
13 Senators Abate, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Leichter
14 and Oppenheimer. Ayes 51, nays 5.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Marcellino.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
19 President, we concur with your previous remarks
20 and we urge our members to do just what you
21 suggest.
22 Can we now take up Calendar
23 Number 1356, please.
7117
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read the title of Calendar Number 1356,
3 Calendar Number 1356.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1356, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
6 Print Number 7714, an act to amend the Public
7 Authorities Law.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Gold.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr.
12 President. This bill, Calendar Number 1356,
13 which is basically an omnibus Article 7 bill,
14 and which I think different from prior years,
15 lumps many, many areas together. I have an
16 amendment at the desk. I would offer that
17 amendment, waive its reading and ask the
18 opportunity to explain it before adoption.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
20 an amendment at the desk, Senator Gold. The
21 reading of the amendment is waived and you are
22 now afforded the opportunity to explain it.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, as
7118
1 I said, this bill, contrary to its predecessors,
2 has many different facets to it, and for that
3 reason, there are a number of areas which
4 require being addressed, and rather than offer
5 separate amendments as the Majority has chosen
6 to lump them together, I have an amendment which
7 deals with eight areas, and I think it will make
8 it easier because it gives the Majority the
9 opportunity to cast one affirmative vote instead
10 of having to cast eight affirmative votes.
11 The first part of the amendment
12 deals with the Tuition Assistance Program which
13 under the Majority bill has restored some of the
14 money. Under my amendment, we would restore it
15 all the way to current levels so that we would
16 continue for Senator Farley's benefit the
17 current law.
18 The second part of the amendment
19 deals with the transfer language which is
20 contained in the bill which takes some powers
21 from SED and changes it to HESC and basically
22 what my amendment does is to undo that language
23 and leave the powers exactly where they are.
7119
1 The third part of the bill deals
2 with local public health. The language would,
3 in effect, add $6 million. The language that
4 you have now would deny reimbursement in the
5 formula and make cuts to local public health
6 departments in the area of vaccines, TB
7 detection, primary care services and things of a
8 very significant nature.
9 If my amendment is not passed,
10 either those services will be denied or the
11 locality will have to increase property taxes to
12 raise the money for the services.
13 The fourth part of my amendment
14 deals in the area of revenue sharing and this
15 would add $52 million for the '97-98 budget and
16 basically help cities in that amount and again
17 give property tax relief. It would also help
18 some towns and villages to the extent of 5
19 million, and you say, Well, Senator, that's
20 '97-98. The importance of this is it gives
21 some planning room to those municipalities.
22 The fifth part is a language for
23 relocation of workers. This is rather
7120
1 significant because, as we all know, the
2 Governor has suggested decimating the Albany
3 area, just to give you one, and there are people
4 in Albany and in the surrounding area who are
5 going to lose their jobs. There is going to be
6 an overwhelming economic effect on the Albany
7 area, and my amendment would say that before you
8 can do that and decimate an area and move a
9 hundred state workers or private sector
10 employees, that there must be an analysis and
11 approval by the Comptroller, the Attorney
12 General and by the Legislature.
13 The sixth part deals with
14 distressed cities and, while there is some
15 reference in your bills to some of our cities,
16 my amendment would help Buffalo to the tune of a
17 million six; it would help Rochester to the tune
18 of 850,000, and it would help Utica to the
19 extent of 300,000, putting them where they
20 belong and helping them, along with other
21 areas.
22 The seventh part of my amendment
23 would restore powers to the hazardous abatement
7121
1 -- hazard abatement board and basically what it
2 does is restore those powers that are being
3 taken away and require annual reports to the
4 Legislature.
5 The eighth part of the amendment
6 and a part which everyone in this chamber should
7 want to be a part of, deals with Medicaid and
8 this cost factor is $138.5 million and basically
9 would put the reimbursement level, restoration
10 level rather, back to where the Majority in this
11 house and the Majority in the other house agreed
12 it should be.
13 Now, I can't speak for everyone
14 in this house, but I know everybody has their
15 pet charities, their pet peeves, their pet this
16 and their pet that, and I was very, very proud
17 of Senator Libous, for example, last week when
18 we had some physically disadvantaged people here
19 and we talked about what was unfortunately
20 called Disabilities Awareness Week, and when you
21 see these people you understand the need, and I
22 think that that is to our credit to pay
23 attention to them.
7122
1 The Medicaid program is not
2 charity. The Medicaid program is not a gift of
3 excess money to undeserving people to curry
4 favor. The Medicaid program is, by definition,
5 as we all know, a major life line. The Medicaid
6 program is an essential life line to millions of
7 people.
8 The restoration that you as a
9 Majority were ready to agree to and the Majority
10 in the Assembly were ready to agree to is a
11 restoration level which is not a luxury. It is
12 not a restoration level where Senator Stafford
13 or anybody else or I can glibly say, we do what
14 we can afford to do and no more. This is an
15 area where we are not speaking luxury.
16 So I would urge everyone in this
17 chamber to adopt these amendments to the Article
18 7 bill. They do not, in any one of the eight
19 instances, create luxury. There is not one of
20 these eight instances where we are not, by
21 definition, doing the right thing for people who
22 look to us for that help and who need that help
23 from us and if indeed the Senate today is
7123
1 offering to the people of this state a complete
2 budget, I urge upon you that these eight items
3 must be included if that budget is to be fair
4 for all of our people.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
6 Senator wishing to speak on the amendment?
7 Hearing none -
8 SENATOR NANULA: On the
9 amendment.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Nanula, on the amendment.
12 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 I'd like to speak specifically in
15 regards to the aid to distressed cities portion
16 of the amendment and, for the record, I wish
17 this -- this aspect of the amendment actually
18 had gone a little bit further. I represent a
19 good portion of the city of Buffalo and pretty
20 much the entire city of Niagara Falls. In past
21 budgets, Governor Pataki and former Governor
22 Cuomo had allocated dollars to the city of
23 Niagara Falls relative to our tragic Love Canal
7124
1 debacle there and the settlement between the
2 state and Occidental Chemical. That money has
3 not been put into the budget this year that I'm
4 aware of, or at least the budget that's been
5 presented today and, in addition to that, there
6 is no aid for the city of Niagara Falls.
7 That's a disappointment. I am
8 encouraged, though, that there is a restoration
9 of some dollars here in this amendment to the
10 city of Buffalo, and I want to take a second to
11 remind everybody about the current status of
12 many of our upstate cities, from Yonkers to the
13 city of Niagara Falls and just about every city
14 in between.
15 Our upstate economies are
16 reeling. We're losing and we've lost a
17 substantial amount of our commercial tax base.
18 Our populations are aging and growing poorer.
19 Our neighborhoods are becoming distressed. Our
20 residential tax base, which in many of these
21 cities is our only remaining significant source
22 of tax revenue, is for a variety of reasons
23 becoming destabilized and to many local
7125
1 governments' credit, including our new mayor in
2 the city of Niagara Falls working with the
3 County Legislature in Niagara County, our mayor
4 of the city of Buffalo working with our County
5 Executive and their respective legislative
6 bodies, there are substantive processes,
7 substantive programs being put into motion to
8 stabilize this crisis situation in our urban
9 centers.
10 And, by the way, and this has
11 become -- this has been a real problem for us in
12 western New York. Many of our suburban counter
13 parts feel the strength of our cities, the
14 stability of our cities as urban centers really
15 isn't all that important given their suburban
16 status. Let the cities decay. Let the cities'
17 economic status dwindle.
18 Our upstate cities are the hubs
19 of our upstate metropolitan communities and, if
20 you look at the leading economic indicators from
21 western New York all the way down to this com
22 munity here in Albany and Troy and Schenectady,
23 they're reeling. They are reeling. We need to
7126
1 put together a responsible program at the
2 legislative level. The Governor has not been
3 proactive in regards to coming up with programs
4 to address the root causes of what's killing our
5 upstate cities.
6 Again, I give credit to our local
7 elected officials in areas that I represent for
8 trying to be proactive in regards to real
9 consolidation measures, but during this process
10 while we as a legislative body are deliberating
11 over changing the state and how to responsibly
12 reform New York, we need these dollars to keep
13 these cities afloat.
14 The world I come from, the
15 private sector I often make the analogy if
16 you're in Chapter 11 you can't focus on
17 expanding into new markets. You can't focus on
18 adding product lines. We're not going to be
19 able to focus on the root causes of these urban
20 situations and revitalizing our cities,
21 revitalizing our neighborhoods, revitalizing and
22 bringing back businesses to our cities which, in
23 turn, will stabilize our upstate metropolitan
7127
1 economies unless we can keep our upstate urban
2 environments, our cities, solvent.
3 The mayor of the city of Buffalo
4 who is a former Senator, served in this body,
5 has been imploring us historically since he took
6 office, to help in this short-term way. I'm
7 encouraging this body to support this amendment
8 in its entirety. This is a short-term solution
9 to keeping a situation away from insolvency,
10 keeping cities like Buffalo away from bankruptcy
11 so that we can work together to create the long
12 term solutions to bring back these urban centers
13 and, hopefully, with that bring back the
14 metropolitan communities of upstate New York.
15 I urge my fellow colleagues here
16 to support this amendment.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
18 is on the amendment. All those in favor signify
19 by saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 Opposed nay.
22 (Response of "Nay." )
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
7128
1 the negative.
2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote
3 in the negative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
5 will call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll. )
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
8 the party line votes and announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 37.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 amendment is lost.
12 Secretary will read the last
13 section.
14 Senator Oppenheimer, you wish to
15 speak on the bill?
16 (Senator Oppenheimer nods head.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
18 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer on Calendar
19 Number 1356.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: In reading
21 the bill, there appears to be, and I guess I'm
22 addressing this to -- to Senator Rules -- Rules.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7129
1 Stafford, do you yield to a question from
2 Senator Oppenheimer? Senator yields.
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
4 Senator.
5 Does this bill include budget
6 votes for small city school -
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Excuse me, Mr.
8 President. I'm sure it's me, but I can't hear.
9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Does this
10 bill -
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Oppenheimer. Senator Oppenheimer. I think
13 Senator Stafford was remarking that it's a
14 little noisy, and there were conversations going
15 on in the chamber that would best be taken out
16 of the chamber. So could we please quiet down,
17 members take their seats, staff take their
18 seats. If you have to have a conversation, take
19 it out of the chamber.
20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator
21 Stafford, my question is, does this bill have in
22 it the budget vote for small city school
23 districts? It doesn't. I'm reading something
7130
1 incorrectly then. That was the question.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
3 will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
5 act shall take effect July 1st.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll. )
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
10 the results when tabulated.
11 Senator Abate, do you want to
12 explain your vote?
13 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Abate, to explain her vote, I'm sorry.
16 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. The last
17 section was read so quickly, I would like to
18 have spoken on the bill, but -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have
20 two minutes to explain your vote.
21 SENATOR ABATE: I have two
22 minutes.
23 But let me in a very fast
7131
1 fashion, I thought that Senator Bruno and
2 Assembly member Speaker Silver were brilliant a
3 couple of weeks ago when they recognized how
4 complex criminal justice issues are and they
5 made a decision that we should not be developing
6 criminal justice policy in a budget context in
7 Article 7 bills because there is, and I believe
8 a consensus that we have to do everything
9 possible for public protection, to make our
10 streets safer, that there's not a member in
11 either house of the Legislature that does not
12 support strong and vigorous law enforcement,
13 that don't want laws on the books that support
14 crime victims, and also that we need money for
15 treatment and prevention.
16 But the issues at hand are so
17 complex because what combination of treatment/
18 prevention do we need as opposed to law
19 enforcement and prosecution? What, in fact,
20 when we do legislate new proposals, will make
21 our streets safer? What will be the impact of
22 the laws we pass on correction? Do we need to
23 build more prisons? What will the impact be on
7132
1 the courts? What will the impact be on parole
2 and probation, on the D.A.'s offices? I can go
3 on and on, the issues are so complex.
4 I cannot support this legislation
5 because, again, we're doing what we did last
6 year. We passed the most dramatic changes in
7 criminal justice overnight. What do we do? We
8 eliminated parole. We reduced good time from
9 one-third to one-seventh. We elongated
10 sentences. I think it was a decade, 20 years,
11 before we did anything as dramatic as last
12 year. But we were told it was a wash. We
13 didn't need to build more prisons, that the
14 D.A.s would go along with it, et cetera.
15 So I think we do a disservice to
16 people throughout the state. We believe in
17 public safety. We're for victims. We're for
18 justice, and I, if I had more than two minutes,
19 which I know I do not, I could have a lengthy
20 debate on all the issues that have been raised,
21 why we need to discuss these issues around
22 criminal justice much further.
23 So again, I shouldn't, as a State
7133
1 Senator, be doing a report called Dollars and
2 Cells, analyzing the impact of the laws last
3 year. Let's do it as a body. Let's be
4 methodical and scrutinize and make sure we do
5 the best thing we can for the people of the
6 state. Let's not do criminal justice policy in
7 the middle of the budget. Let's get all these
8 criminal justice issues out of the budget and
9 let's produce effective crime-fighting policy.
10 For this bill, I must oppose the
11 bill, and I thank the President for his
12 generosity in giving me another minute or so.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Abate will be recorded in the negative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
17 the negative on Calendar Number 1356 are
18 Senators Abate, Connor, Hoffmann, Kruger,
19 Lachman, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson,
20 Smith and Stachowski.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Markowitz, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Negative.
7134
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Markowitz, I know you've been here a long time,
3 as Senator Gold has and Senator Leichter. I
4 might remind you of Rule IX, section 1, of the
5 rules of this house, which says and I quote: "No
6 vote of a Senator shall be recorded on a bill on
7 a controversial calendar unless the Senator
8 shall vote from his or her seat."
9 So I just bring that to your
10 attention once again to reiterate the fact that
11 it's extremely difficult for people up here, the
12 Secretary and the members who are trying to
13 assist him, to record votes when people come in
14 and snap their fingers. We don't know whether
15 you're trying to signal something to a member of
16 yours or whether you're actually trying to vote,
17 so if you are going to vote, the Chair would
18 request that you vote from your seat.
19 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I appreciate
20 your very kind comments. However, my negative
21 vote was acknowledged prior to my second
22 negative vote at this moment, and that is the
23 reason why I was standing over there because it
7135
1 was acknowledged and then it was not read off by
2 the clerk.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Markowitz, how do you vote?
5 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Markowitz voting in the negative. Senator Gold
8 will be recorded in the negative.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Be recorded in the
10 negative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: No, Mr.
14 President, I just wanted to -- to compliment the
15 personnel in recording the vote and to
16 understand, when Senator Marcellino spoke with
17 me, we were trying to address that problem; so
18 I'm sure you'll get calm and relaxed. You sound
19 tense, Mr. President. I just wanted to assure
20 you that we understand.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Paterson, my stomach is sending me signals that
23 I'm not used to.
7136
1 Senator Leichter, how do you
2 vote?
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
4 I think you're absolutely correct, and I was one
5 of those guilty of snapping my fingers madly.
6 I'm not sure that the clerk got my vote. I'm
7 now at my chair and vote in the negative,
8 please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Leichter will be recorded in the negative.
11 Senator Montgomery, did you wish
12 to be recorded in the negative also.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Waldon.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Waldon
17 from his chair, in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: In the
19 negative. Please announce the results when
20 tabulated.
21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
22 the negative on Calendar Number 1356: Senators
23 Abate, Connor, Gold, Hoffmann, Kruger, Lachman,
7137
1 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula,
2 Paterson, Smith, Stachowski and Waldon. Ayes
3 41, nays 15.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Marcellino.
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
8 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1357.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read the title of Calendar Number 1357.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1357, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Print 7723, an act in relation to certain
14 provisions.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
16 will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 13 -
18 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1357
21 has been requested by Senator Connor.
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
23 we now pull things together here. This bill
7138
1 enacts technical provisions necessary to
2 implement the amended appropriation bill and
3 comply with the provisions of the New York State
4 Constitution regarding the content of
5 appropriation bills and the ability of the
6 Legislature to alter such appropriation.
7 As one who has served here with a
8 number of individuals who have served here for a
9 number of years, we all recollect when the
10 Legislature passed the budget that at times it
11 had language so that we could clarify what our
12 intent was and we could, in that way, do our
13 job, do it accurately and do it well.
14 The courts, in their wisdom, said
15 that -- well, let -- scratch the last
16 statement. A decision was made that, when it
17 came to an appropriation bill -- what case was
18 this called? -- the Bankers decision, but the
19 court said that we could not add words to the
20 appropriations bill. Nonetheless, Mr.
21 President, we now pass this law which refers to
22 the budget, and we now do indirectly what we did
23 directly previously.
7139
1 When we did it previously, it was
2 clear; it was very sensible. Now, we must do it
3 indirectly through legislation but we do it in
4 one bill. So what we are doing here is simply
5 making it crystal clear what our intention is
6 when we pass the appropriation measure.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
8 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
9 Secretary will read the last
10 section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
17 the negative on Calendar Number 1357 are
18 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold,
19 Hoffmann, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz,
20 Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson,
21 Smith, Stachowski and Waldon. Ayes 39, nays 17,
22 also Senator Oppenheimer. Ayes 38, nays 19.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7140
1 is passed.
2 Senator Marcellino.
3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
4 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1358,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the title of Calendar Number 1358.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1358, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
10 Print Number 7724, an act in relation to certain
11 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
12 certain appropriations.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Stafford, an explanation of 1358 has been asked
16 for by Senator Connor.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
18 what I would suggest here is what I just said
19 for the general government budget bill we are
20 incorporating now in the Transportation,
21 Economic Development and the Environmental
22 Conservation budgets.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7141
1 Stachowski.
2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
3 President, I believe I have an amendment up at
4 the desk.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
6 an amendment here, Senator Stachowski.
7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Could we
8 waive the reading, and I'd like to move the
9 amendment and explain it.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 reading of the amendment is waived. You're now
12 offered an opportunity to explain the amendment,
13 Senator Stachowski.
14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: In the
15 amendment, what it does is, first of all, it
16 removes the UDC block grant authority and makes
17 the expenditure of such funds subject to a
18 chapter to be enacted by the Legislature. In
19 the second piece of this amendment, what it does
20 is it keeps intact the Governor's JOBS NOW
21 program, but instead of -- instead, it limits
22 its application to corporations with employees
23 of 300 or more and instead sets forth the
7142
1 criteria that I want to highlight, basically a
2 six-point criteria.
3 Those points are, first, it would
4 offer corporate tax incentives for retraining
5 rather than down-sizing. Companies would have
6 to match the incentives and could get a tax
7 credit of up to $500 per employee that they did
8 not let go.
9 Secondly, it would recruit failed
10 job creation tax credits, loans or grants in the
11 companies that give public money and then do not
12 create the jobs they have promised. That money
13 would come back to the state.
14 Third, it would provide training
15 vouchers for laid-off employees. Workers caught
16 in economic layoffs would be eligible for up to
17 $5,000 in approved retraining programs.
18 Fourth, it would expand New
19 York's unique Child Health Plus insurance plan
20 to cover children from 15 to 18 who are living
21 in near poor and working poor families.
22 Fifth, it would require better
23 notice of major layoffs and plant shutdowns,
7143
1 extend state law to cover plant closings
2 involving at least 50 workers in layoffs
3 affecting 20 percent of the work force or 150
4 individuals, and it would require a 60-day
5 notice and, lastly, would increase the minimum
6 wage from 4.25 to 5.05. The minimum wage has
7 not risen since 1991, and a study in New Jersey
8 shows that when they raised their minimum wage,
9 it had no significant job loss.
10 I think it's important to note
11 that when we talk about the retraining piece,
12 somebody might say, as I know Senator Padavan
13 asked earlier, Senator Montgomery, like how
14 would this cost more money? Are you adding to
15 the budget?
16 Well, in this particular case
17 we're not. We're using the same $30 million.
18 We're just changing the JOBS NOW, what programs
19 we do. With that, Mr. President, I move the
20 amendment.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 question is on the amendment. All those in
23 favor, signify by saying aye.
7144
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
2 the affirmative.
3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote in
4 the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
6 will call the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
9 the party line votes and announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 37.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 amendment has failed.
13 Secretary will read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 51. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll. )
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
21 the results when tabulated.
22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
23 the negative on Calendar Number 1358: Senators
7145
1 Abate, Connor, Gold, Hoffmann, Kruger, Lachman,
2 Leichter, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson,
3 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 43, nays 13.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 Senator Marcellino.
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
8 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1359.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read the title of Calendar Number 1359.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1359, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Print 7725, an act in relation to certain
14 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
15 certain appropriations.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1359
19 has been requested.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
21 once again I would incorporate the explanation
22 that I gave for the general government budget
23 bill and then referred that it was the same for
7146
1 the Transportation, Economic Development,
2 Environmental Conservation bill. It is now for
3 the Education, Labor and Social Services budget
4 bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Paterson.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
8 if Senator Stafford would yield for a question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Stafford, do you yield? Senator yields.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Was it
12 Education, Labor or Social Services that this
13 explanation would suffice for?
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: For all
15 three.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: All three,
17 plus the two previous pieces of legislation.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 if the Senator would yield for a question.
21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 continues to yield.
7147
1 SENATOR PATERSON: This would
2 inevitably create a savings to the public of
3 what in -- applied to this particular bill?
4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, of
5 course, we're now going back to the
6 appropriation bill. That would have the
7 savings. This legislation is just a language
8 bill which makes a clear, concise and really
9 tells a complete story on what we intend when we
10 pass the appropriation. Because of the Bankers
11 decision, they said we couldn't put any wording
12 in the appropriation bill. Now we have to do
13 indirectly what we used to do directly.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand.
15 Mr. President, if Senator Stafford would yield
16 for another question.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 yields.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Then, in the
21 actual appropriations bill, if it would be
22 germane to this subject and regarded that way,
23 proportionally speaking, and I guess I'm
7148
1 interested in the education area specifically,
2 what the savings would be.
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: We restored
4 385 million in that portion of the budget.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: 385 million.
6 Thank you very much.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Paterson, on the bill?
9 SENATOR PATERSON: That answers
10 my question.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 62. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll. )
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
19 the results when tabulated.
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar Number 1359: Senators
22 Abate, Connor, Gold, Hoffmann, Kruger, Leichter,
23 Markowitz, Mendez, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson,
7149
1 Smith, Stachowski and Waldon. Also Senator
2 Lachman. Ayes 41, nays 15.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 Senator Marcellino.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
7 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1360,
8 six-zero.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
10 will read the title of Calendar Number 1360.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1360, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Print 7733, an act in relation to certain
14 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of
15 certain appropriations.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1360
19 has been requested by Senator Gold.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
21 as I have mentioned, this legislation provides
22 language which explains, points out, makes clear
23 what exactly it is our intent when we pass the
7150
1 appropriation, how that appropriation should be
2 interpreted. This bill is for the public
3 protection, health and mental hygiene portion of
4 the budget.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
6 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing
7 none, the Secretary will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 80. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
14 the results when tabulated.
15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
16 the negative on Calendar Number 1360: Senators
17 Abate, Connor, Gold, Hoffmann, Kruger, Lachman,
18 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula,
19 Onorato, Paterson, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 41,
20 nays 15.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 Senator Montgomery, why do you
7151
1 rise?
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
3 President, apparently you did not see my hand.
4 It was raised. I would like to be recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar 1359.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1359,
7 Senator? Without objection, hearing no
8 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
9 in the negative on Calendar Number 1359, Senator
10 Stachowski.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
12 President, apparently with all the people moving
13 back and forth, my vote wasn't recorded in the
14 negative on 1358. I'd like to be reported in
15 the negative on 1358.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
17 objection, hearing no -- without objection,
18 hearing no objection, Senator Stachowski will be
19 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
20 1358.
21 Senator Onorato.
22 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President,
23 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the
7152
1 negative on Calendar Number 1358.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have
3 a job now as Senator Gold's counsel?
4 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I am.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have
6 a seat there.
7 Without objection, Senator
8 Onorato will be recorded in the negative on
9 Calendar 1358.
10 Senator Marcellino.
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
12 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1400.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the title of Calendar Number 1400.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1400, an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel
17 Wagering and Breeding Law, in relation to
18 extending provisions relating to in-home
19 simulcasting.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
21 will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
7153
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Senator Marcellino.
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
9 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1354,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
12 will read the title to Calendar Number 1354.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1354, Senate Print 5593-A, Budget Bill, an act
15 making appropriations for the support of
16 government on general government budget.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
18 recognizes Senator Hoblock.
19 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President,
20 we want to offer the following amendment to
21 Calendar Number 1354, Senate Bill 5593-A. I ask
22 the reading of the amendment be waived, and I'll
23 give a brief explanation.
7154
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Hoblock, the reading of the amendment is waived
3 and you're afforded an opportunity to explain
4 the amendment at this time.
5 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President,
6 this amendment simply addresses state Tax and
7 Finance and it has to do with their contracting
8 or amendment for contracting in connection with
9 the income tax processing function. This
10 amendment provides that no monies will be
11 utilized directly or indirectly for any contract
12 or amendment to contract if, in fact, it has to
13 do with relocation of that process.
14 The amendment further goes on to
15 describe that monies can be used directly or
16 indirectly for tax processing contracts for Tax
17 and Finance if, in fact, it has to do with
18 expansion or enhancement of existing facilities,
19 and I move the amendment.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question
21 is on the amendment.
22 Senator Paterson, why do you
23 rise?
7155
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
2 on the amendment.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Paterson, on the amendment.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm very happy
6 that Senator Hoblock has offered the amendment.
7 It will certainly help to hopefully save jobs.
8 Curious that Senator Hoblock did not vote for
9 the measure that would have saved jobs, the
10 amendment offered earlier here by Senator
11 Stachowski, and the issue is what we've got to
12 stop is the geographic patronage that exists in
13 this state, the moving of jobs in large numbers
14 and what is really the gentrification of the
15 economy in small areas, and what we're going to
16 have to have is consistency on that particular
17 issue, and so the amendment on its face is quite
18 meritorious, and we support it.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Gold, on the amendment.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
23 President.
7156
1 I understand the problem that
2 Senator Hoblock is trying to address. I know
3 that there are areas of Queens County where we
4 are being threatened with losses of jobs and we
5 take it very seriously. I know that also
6 earlier today the mayor of this great city was
7 in the chamber and around, and he's very
8 concerned about this region.
9 Senator Hoblock, I've spoken to
10 Senator Paterson, and we're ready to give you a
11 party vote. I think that's 19 votes today and
12 if some of the members on your side will show
13 some respect for you the way we're going to give
14 you respect today, you may be able to do this
15 one. So why don't you talk it up on your side,
16 Senator?
17 I know it's a very important
18 matter for you. I hope that Senator Bruno and
19 your colleagues don't slap you in the face today
20 when you've shown so much concern for your
21 constituents, but we're going to help you,
22 Senator. We'll give you our side. Let's see a
23 rally on your side.
7157
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Hoblock, on the amendment.
3 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Senator Gold,
4 thank you very much for that offer, and I
5 appreciate your support. Perhaps we can utilize
6 that in some other things that we may tend to
7 agree on, because so far in my brief tenure
8 there's been very little that we've agreed on,
9 but I appreciate that offer.
10 Senator Gold, I represent this
11 Senate District. I got separately elected. I
12 will fight for the constituents and voters in my
13 district, and I respect that of every other
14 legislator in doing the same. This is not a
15 business of trading favors. Perhaps with your
16 tenure you've been used to that. I am not, and
17 I support my -- my constituents, and that's why
18 I offered this amendment.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Dollinger? Senator Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
22 President.
23 I'm interested to hear Senator
7158
1 Hoblock talk about trading favors, and I'm
2 reminded of some of the negotiations that we've
3 had, Senator, where there were Democratic bills
4 that were needed for localities and we held up
5 some bills on that side because members here
6 were fighting for their localities and I guess,
7 Senator, I wouldn't sit in judgment of anybody.
8 That's the Lord's work, not mine, but everybody
9 does what they have to do for their district,
10 but it will be interesting, Senator, if this
11 session ended and the only Republican bill to be
12 offered on this floor that was rejected would be
13 yours. I'd feel bad about that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
17 Hoblock yield to a question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Hoblock, do you yield?
20 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 yields.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, has
7159
1 there been a similar amendment offered in any or
2 all of the interim pay bills that we've been
3 passing since April 1st?
4 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Not familiar.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So there's
6 been no restriction -- again through you, Mr.
7 President -- so there's been no restriction on
8 the ability of the executive to transfer these
9 jobs or spend funds for these jobs since April
10 1st.
11 SENATOR HOBLOCK: This amendment
12 is different from that.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
14 President, I missed the end of the answer. I
15 apologize.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Hoblock, would you repeat the answer?
18 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I said this
19 amendment is different from what you may be
20 referring to, and I'm not sure what you're
21 referring to.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
23 you, Mr. President.
7160
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Hoblock, do you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Sure.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 yields.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question
7 is, at least as best as I've followed this
8 controversy, the Governor has been making this
9 movement to transfer jobs out of Albany to some
10 other location during the course of time since
11 April 1st when the budget -- last budget cycle
12 ended. I guess my question is, I'm trying to
13 find out what's the status of the Governor's
14 attempt to move these jobs?
15 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I apologize,
16 Senator Dollinger. My understanding is that
17 yes, the proposal has been made and perhaps the
18 administration is making its plans, but there's
19 no funds yet appropriated to implement it.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
21 you, Mr. President, just so -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Hoblock, you continue to yield?
7161
1 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Sure.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 continues to yield.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: There are no
5 funds. What does the Governor use to fund his
6 exploration of this potential shift in the jobs;
7 what funds does he use?
8 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I'm not sure.
9 It might have been the general funds out of the
10 Office of General Services. I'm not sure.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Just
12 through you, Mr. President, I agree with Senator
13 Gold, I think this was a good amendment when
14 Senator Stachowski proposed it. I continue to
15 believe it's a good amendment. I share Senator
16 Paterson's view that this kind of geographic
17 patronage is not what this state should be all
18 about. I hope this sends a message to the
19 second floor that this institution, this part of
20 the Legislature, will not tolerate it.
21 My suggestion is that I guess
22 both houses of the Legislature could have sent
23 this message a long time ago if Senator
7162
1 Stachowski's amendment had become law. Al
2 though perhaps it's a little bit late, I still
3 think it's better late than never, and I'm going
4 to vote in favor.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Paterson.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
8 President. Actually, upon -- upon further
9 perusal, we've gone through a lot of bills
10 today. It was actually Calendar Number 1356 and
11 it was Senator Gold's amendment that, from my
12 reading -- had them both here -- seemed to
13 actually do the same thing, and so -- but I just
14 wanted to mention his name one more time.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 question is on the amendment to Calendar Number
17 1354. Secretary will call the roll.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Party vote
19 in the negative.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
22 the party line vote with exceptions.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 20, nays 36,
7163
1 party vote with exception.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 amendment is defeated.
4 Secretary will read the last
5 section.
6 THE SECRETARY: This act shall
7 take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
12 the results when tabulated.
13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
14 the negative on Calendar Number 1354 are
15 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold,
16 Hoblock, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz,
17 Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson,
18 Smith, Stachowski and Waldon. Ayes 39, nays
19 17.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 Senator Dollinger, why do you
23 rise?
7164
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President, I'd ask unanimous consent to be
3 recorded in the negative on Calendars Number
4 1358, 1359 and 1360. I was not in the room at
5 the time, although I'm usually in my desk. I
6 was not here at that time, and I'd ask unanimous
7 consent to be recorded in the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
10 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on
11 Calendars Number 1358, 1359 and 1360.
12 Senator Marcellino.
13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
14 President, is there any housekeeping at the
15 desk?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, we
17 have several items up here, Senator Marcellino.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: May we do
19 the housekeeping.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
21 return to motions and resolutions.
22 Chair would recognize Senator
23 Maziarz.
7165
1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 I wish to call up Print Number
4 7010 recalled from the Assembly which is now at
5 the desk.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl,
9 Senate Print 7010, an act to amend the General
10 City Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Maziarz.
13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
14 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this
15 bill was passed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
17 will call the roll on reconsideration.
18 (The Secretary called the roll on
19 reconsideration. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Maziarz.
23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
7166
1 I now offer the following amendments.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
3 Amendments are received and adopted.
4 Senator Maziarz.
5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
6 on page number 31, I offer the following
7 amendments to Calendar Number 1062, Assembly
8 Print Number -- I'm sorry, Senate Print Number
9 6561, and ask that said bill retain its place on
10 Third Reading Calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
12 Amendments are received and adopted.
13 Senator Maziarz.
14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on
17 page number 8, I offer the following amendments
18 to Calendar Number 401, Senate Print Number
19 6175, and ask that said bill retain its place on
20 Third Reading Calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Amendments to Calendar 401 are received and
23 adopted. Bill will retain its place on the
7167
1 Third Reading Calendar.
2 Senator Maziarz.
3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
4 on behalf of Senator Cook, on page number 29, I
5 offer the following amendments to Calendar
6 Number 1020, Senate Print Number 7353, and ask
7 that said bill retain its place on Third Reading
8 Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
10 Amendments are received and adopted.
11 Senator Marcellino.
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
15 sorry. Senator Maziarz.
16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: One more.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Got one
18 more.
19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: On behalf of
20 Senator Lack, on page number 31, I offer the
21 following amendments to Calendar Number 1067,
22 Senate Print Number 7484-A, and ask that said
23 bill retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
7168
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2 Amendments to Calendar 1067 are received and
3 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the
4 Third Reading Calendar.
5 Senator Marcellino.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
7 President, for the benefit of the members,
8 session for the rest of the week has been moved
9 to 10:00 a.m.
10 There being no further business,
11 I move we adjourn until Tuesday, June 11th at
12 10:00 a.m.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
14 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
15 tomorrow, Tuesday, June 11th, at 10:00 a.m.
16 Note the time change, 10:00 a.m.
17 (Whereupon at 8:35 p.m., the
18 Senate adjourned.)
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