Regular Session - March 25, 1997
1978
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 March 25, 1997
10 3:05 p.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1979
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 come to order. Would you please rise and join
4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
5 (The assemblage repeated the
6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
7 May we bow our heads in a moment
8 of silence.
9 (A moment of silence was
10 observed.)
11 The reading of the Journal,
12 please.
13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
14 Monday, March 24th. The Senate met pursuant to
15 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 23rd,
16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate
17 adjourned.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Without
19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
20 Presentation of petitions.
21 Messages from the Assembly.
22 Messages from the Governor.
23 Reports of standing committees.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully,
1980
1 from the Committee on Water Resources
2 Commissions, offers up the following bills:
3 Senate Print 1465-A, by Senator
4 Tully, an act to amend the Environmental
5 Conservation Law;
6 2733, by Senator Cook, an act to
7 amend the Soil and Water Conservation Districts
8 Law.
9 Senator Alesi, from the Committee
10 on Consumer Protection, offers up the following
11 bills:
12 Senate 2951, by Senator Seward,
13 an act to amend the General Business Law, in
14 relation to willfully installing a fire
15 protection system;
16 3525, by Senator Alesi, an act to
17 amend the General Business Law, in relation to
18 telephone services.
19 Senator Lack, from the Committee
20 on Judiciary, offers up the following bills:
21 Senate Print 3001, by Senator
22 Lack, concurrent resolution of the Senate and
23 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Article VI
24 of the Constitution;
25 3304, by Senator Leibell,
1981
1 concurrent resolution of the Senate and
2 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Section 1
3 Article VI of the Constitution;
4 3444, by Senator Saland, an act
5 to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the Public
6 Health Law and others, in relation to fees
7 charged for the issuance of a marriage license;
8 Senator Padavan, from the
9 Committee on Cities, offers up the following
10 bills:
11 Senate Print 3187, by Senator
12 Seward, an act authorizing and directing the
13 city of Ithaca to establish a photo radar
14 monitoring demonstration.
15 Senator Spano, from the Committee
16 on Labor, offers up the following bills:
17 Senate Print 1384-A, by Senator
18 Spano, an act to amend the Labor Law and the
19 Public Health Law;
20 1560, by Senator Maltese, an act
21 amend the Labor Law, in relation to certain
22 employment of minors under 16 years of age;
23 3483, by Senator Spano, an act to
24 amend the Labor Law, in relation to liability
25 for non-payment of wages in the apparel
1982
1 industry.
2 Senator Stafford, from the
3 Committee on Finance, offers up the following
4 bills:
5 Senate Print 2-A, by Senator
6 Bruno, an act to amend the Tax Law and the
7 Public Services Law, in relation to a reduction
8 in the rate of tax;
9 701-A, Budget Bill, an act making
10 appropriation for the legal requirements of the
11 state debt service;
12 2496, by Senator Johnson, an act
13 to amend the State Finance Law and the Vehicle
14 and Traffic Law;
15 3083, by Senator Padavan, an act
16 to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to
17 contracts;
18 3857, by the Committee on Rules,
19 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law;
20 3865, by the Committee on Rules,
21 an act to amend the State Finance Law;
22 3867, by the Committee on Rules,
23 an act to amend the State Finance Law.
24 Senator Volker, from the
25 Committee on Codes, offers up the following
1983
1 bills:
2 Senate Print 212-A, by Senator
3 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Penal Law, in
4 relation to registration of firearms;
5 341, by Senator Skelos, an act to
6 amend the Penal Law, in relation to monetary
7 standards;
8 589, by Senator Skelos, an act to
9 amend the Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure
10 Law;
11 1143, by Senator Saland, an act
12 to amend the Penal Law;
13 1467, by Senator Volker, an act
14 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Family
15 Court Act and the Penal Law;
16 1556, by Senator Leibell, an act
17 to amend the Penal Law, the County Law and the
18 Executive Law;
19 1593, by Senator Johnson, an act
20 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to including
21 court officer;
22 1957, by Senator Holland, an act
23 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to fixing
24 sentences;
25 1977, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
1984
1 amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal
2 possession of a weapon in the third degree;
3 2643, by Senator Skelos, an act
4 to amend the Penal Law;
5 3070, by Senator Padavan, an act
6 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
7 possession of gambling devices;
8 3407, by Senator Volker, an act
9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation
10 to the authority of police officers;
11 3456, by Senator Volker, an act
12 to enact the Criminal Procedure Law Reformed Act
13 of 1997.
14 Senator Rath, from the Committee
15 on Local Governments, offers up the following
16 bills:
17 Senate Print 2670, by Senator
18 LaValle, an act to amend the Town Law, in
19 relation to fire districts;
20 2843, by Senator Tully, an act to
21 amend the Nassau Civil Divisions Act;
22 3133-A, by Senator Lack, an act
23 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation
24 to duties of the director of real property tax
25 services;
1985
1 3139, by Senator LaValle, an act
2 to amend the Town Law;
3 3140, by Senator LaValle, an act
4 to amend the Town Law;
5 3267, by Senator Seward, an act
6 to amend the Town Law, in relation to non
7 resident volunteer firefighters;
8 3754, by Senator Rath, an act to
9 amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992;
10 3864, by Senator Present, an act
11 to amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992.
12 Senator Levy, from the Committee
13 on Transportation, offers up the following
14 bills:
15 Senate Print 99, by Senator Levy,
16 an act in relation to authorizing a review of
17 current drug impaired driving education;
18 272, by Senator Volker, an act to
19 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
20 475-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an
21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
22 748, by Senator Present, an act
23 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
24 relation to refunds of registration fees;
25 917, by Senator Levy, an act to
1986
1 amend the Public Authorities Law;
2 1344, by Senator Levy, an act to
3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
4 to a requirement to mandate full resident
5 addresses;
6 2601, by Senator Velella, an act
7 to amend the Public Authorities Law;
8 3421, by Senator Spano, an act to
9 amend the Public Authorities Law;
10 3553, by Senator Levy, an act to
11 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
12 3863, by the Committee on Rules,
13 an act to amend Chapter 329 of the Laws of 1991;
14 3866, by the Committee on Rules,
15 an act to amend the Transportation Law.
16 Senator Marcellino, from the
17 Committee on Environmental Conservation, offers
18 up the following bills:
19 Senate Print 933, by Senator
20 Maziarz, an act to amend the Environmental
21 Conservation Law;
22 3103, by Senator LaValle, an act
23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;
24 3679, by Senator Marcellino, an
25 act to amend Chapter 471 of the Laws of 1996;
1987
1 2921, with amendments, by Senator
2 Marchi, an act to amend Chapter 395 of the Laws
3 of 1978;
4 3834, by Senator Marcellino, an
5 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
6 All bills directly for third
7 reading.
8 THE PRESIDENT: All bills direct
9 to third reading.
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
12 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers up the
13 following nominations: As judge of the New York
14 State Court of Claims, Dora L. Irizarry, of New
15 York County.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack.
17 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam
18 President.
19 I rise to move the nomination of
20 Dora L. Irizarry as a judge of the New York
21 State Court of Claims. Judge Irizarry appeared
22 before the Committee this morning, was
23 unanimously moved to the floor. Prior to that,
24 she had been investigated by members of my staff
25 and found to be eminently satisfactory and was
1988
1 sent before the entire Committee.
2 Judge Irizarry was appointed to
3 the Criminal Court of the city of New York by
4 Mayor Giuliani in 19... in December 1995. She
5 currently sits in New York County Criminal
6 Court.
7 Prior to her appointment to the
8 bench, she was a prosecutor for 16 years,
9 beginning in 1979 when she became an assistant
10 district attorney in the Appeals Bureau of the
11 Bronx District Attorney's office.
12 In 1981, Judge Irizarry was
13 assigned to the office of the New York City
14 Special Narcotics Prosecutor and was a
15 prosecutor for the remaining time until she
16 became a judge by appointment of Mayor
17 Giuliani.
18 She attended the Bronx High
19 School of Science, graduated from Yale
20 University with honors and distinction in
21 political sociology and then from Columbia
22 University School of Law.
23 The Governor is certainly to be
24 congratulated on an outstanding appointment to
25 the New York State Court of Claims and, Madam
1989
1 President, I would respectfully move the
2 nomination and ask for you to congratulate Judge
3 Irizarry as well as her son Justin who is
4 accompanying her in our west -- east gallery.
5 Thank you.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Do any other
7 members wish to speak on the nomination?
8 (There was no response.)
9 The question is on the
10 confirmation of Dora L. Irizarry as judge of the
11 New York State Court of Claims. All in favor
12 please signify by saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye".)
14 Opposed, nay.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Dora L. Irizarry is hereby
17 confirmed as judge of the New York State Court
18 of Claims.
19 (Applause)
20 In the gallery are the judge's
21 son, Justin Irizarry, several friends of the
22 judge's. We welcome you all.
23 The Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: As a justice of
25 the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial
1990
1 District, Burton S. Joseph, of Nassau County.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack.
3 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam
4 President.
5 I rise to move the nomination of
6 Burton S. Joseph of Nassau County as a justice
7 of the New York State Supreme Court. Judge
8 Joseph appeared before the Committee this
9 morning, was unanimously endorsed and sent to
10 the floor for consideration this afternoon, and
11 I would proudly yield to Senator Hannon for
12 purposes of a second.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon.
14 SENATOR HANNON: Madam President,
15 I am delighted to be able to move the nomination
16 of Burton S. Joseph to be a justice of the
17 Supreme Court.
18 Judge Joseph currently serves on
19 the Nassau County Family Court where he has been
20 since 1984. Prior to that, he had been a
21 District Court judge, 1977 to 1984, and before
22 that he had been senior deputy county attorney
23 in the county attorney's office in Nassau
24 County, where I had the distinct pleasure of
25 serving with him for three years and really
1991
1 getting tutored -- one of the people who tutored
2 me in the law. So you're partially responsible,
3 Judge.
4 I must say that having had a
5 chance to watch him on the bench over the years,
6 that he will make a distinct positive addition
7 to the Supreme Court bench. He has the
8 intelligence and wisdom that are needed and more
9 importantly, he has the patience.
10 I have seen him take the time
11 with litigants in a landlord/tenant dispute or
12 the people involved in a complicated Family
13 Court matter, to take the time, to cut through
14 the law that was applicable so that they would
15 understand what they were facing. They would
16 understand the implications of what was being
17 proposed, I think leading to a far better
18 understanding and sense of justice than would
19 otherwise be present.
20 I think that we are lucky that he
21 is going to be serving on this bench and,
22 therefore, I very proudly move his nomination.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
24 Does anyone else wish to speak on
25 the nomination?
1992
1 (There was no response.)
2 The question is on the
3 confirmation of Burton S. Joseph as justice of
4 the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial
5 District. All in favor please signify by saying
6 aye.
7 (Response of "Aye".)
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Burton S. Joseph is hereby
11 confirmed as justice of the Supreme Court for
12 the Tenth Judicial District, and in the gallery
13 is the judge's wife Rene and several guests.
14 Congratulations.
15 (Applause)
16 The Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: As a justice of
18 the Supreme Court for the Second Judicial
19 District, Robert S. Kreindler, of Kings County.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack.
21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam
22 President.
23 I rise once again to move the
24 nomination of Robert S. Kreindler as a justice
25 of the Supreme Court to serve in the Second
1993
1 Judicial District in Brooklyn.
2 Judge Kreindler began his career
3 as a judge of the New York City Civil Court by
4 appointment of Mayor Lindsay to an interim term
5 in September 1966. Subsequently, he was
6 appointed to a full ten-year term as a judge of
7 the Criminal Court of the city of New York and
8 has thereafter been reappointed twice to
9 ten-year terms in December of 1978 and in
10 December 1988.
11 For 20 years, Judge Kreindler has
12 been serving as an acting New York State Supreme
13 Court justice in Kings County. For my
14 colleagues out of the City, that's pursuant to
15 the special designation in the Constitution
16 allowing for such appointments and one of the
17 subjects of the restructuring bill which we have
18 received from OCA and which shall be in further
19 consideration in years to come. That is by
20 designation of the presiding justices of the
21 Appellate Divisions in the First and Second
22 Department. In fact, although not a Supreme
23 Court justice, Judge Kreindler has been serving
24 longer in the criminal term of the Supreme Court
25 than any justice in Brooklyn, elected or
1994
1 appointed.
2 He attended Brooklyn College and
3 Brooklyn Law School, received his L.L.B. in June
4 of 1950. He has also served in the United
5 States Attorney's office for approximately five
6 years. He appeared before the Committee this
7 morning, was unanimously endorsed by the members
8 of the Committee and sent to the floor for
9 consideration this afternoon.
10 Mr. President, I would most
11 respectfully congratulate the Governor on his
12 appointment and move his confirmation at this
13 time.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
15 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
16 nomination?
17 (There was no response.)
18 Hearing none, the question is on
19 the nomination of Robert S. Kreindler of Kings
20 County to become a justice of the Supreme
21 Court. All those in favor signify by saying
22 aye.
23 (Response of "Aye".)
24 Opposed, nay.
25 (There was no response.)
1995
1 The justice is unanimously
2 confirmed.
3 We're very, very pleased to have
4 Judge Kreindler in the gallery with us, along
5 with his wife Vivian. Congratulations. Good
6 luck.
7 (Applause)
8 Senator Tully.
9 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 I regret that I was outside the
12 chamber at the time the nomination of Judge
13 Burton Joseph came before us and he was
14 confirmed. Had I been in the chamber, I would
15 have indicated something along the lines of what
16 I indicated at the meeting of the Judiciary
17 Committee today, and that's that I've known
18 Judge Joseph for over 30 years and tried cases
19 against him over 30 years ago and Senator Lack
20 asked at the Judiciary Committee meeting who won
21 when we tried those cases, and I guess we both
22 won because we each learned a little something
23 from each other, but I learned one thing, that
24 Burt Joseph is a gentleman. He's a fine
25 attorney. He's extremely well qualified, and I
1996
1 think the citizens of the Tenth Judicial
2 District will be well served and I wish those
3 remarks to go on the record.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
6 you, Senator Tully.
7 Motions and resolutions.
8 The Chair recognizes Senator
9 Larkin.
10 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
11 wish to call my bill, Print Number 2309,
12 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the
13 desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
17 Larkin, Senate Print 2309, an act to amend the
18 General Municipal Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Larkin.
21 SENATOR LARKIN: I now move to
22 reconsider the vote by which this bill was
23 passed.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the
1997
1 bill passed the house.
2 The Secretary will call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll on
5 reconsideration.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Larkin.
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I
10 now offer the following amendments.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 amendments are received and adopted.
13 Senator Holland.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
15 on behalf of Senator Johnson, please place a
16 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 307.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
18 Number 207 is starred at the request of the
19 sponsor.
20 Senator Holland.
21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President,
22 for Senator Goodman, on page 9, I offer the
23 following amendments to Calendar Number 164,
24 Senate Print Number 423, and ask that the said
25 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
1998
1 Calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 amendments to Calendar Number 164 are received
4 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
5 the Third Reading Calendar.
6 Senator Holland.
7 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of
8 Senator Lack, on page 12, I offer the follow
9 amendments to Calendar Number 259, Senate Print
10 Number 2918, and ask that the said bill retain
11 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 amendments to Calendar Number 259 are received
14 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
15 the Third Reading Calendar.
16 Senator Holland.
17 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of
18 Senator Lack again, on page 12, I after the
19 following amendments to Calendar Number 260,
20 Senate Print Number 2997, and I ask that the
21 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading
22 Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 amendments are received and adopted. The bill
25 will retain its place on the Third Reading
1999
1 Calendar.
2 Senator Holland.
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of
4 Senator Present, on page 16, I offer the
5 following amendments to Calendar Number 322,
6 Senate Print Number 749, and I ask that the said
7 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
8 Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 amendments to Calendar Number 322 are received
11 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
12 the Third Reading Calendar.
13 Senator Holland.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Finally, on
15 behalf of Senator Skelos, on page 19, I offer
16 the following amendments to Calendar Number 354,
17 Senate Print Number 2484, and ask that the said
18 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
19 Calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 amendments to Calendar Number 354 are received
22 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
23 the Third Reading Calendar.
24 Senator Skelos.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2000
1 at this time may we please adopt the Resolution
2 Calendar in its entirety.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 motion is to accept the Resolution Calendar
5 which is on the desks of all of the members.
6 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye".)
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 The Resolution Calendar is
11 adopted.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
14 Resolution J-00729, by Senator Bruno, he wishes
15 to make that available for co-sponsorship to any
16 member who so indicates to the desk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there
18 several members who would like to be on Calendar
19 -- Resolution Number 729?
20 Senator Skelos, shall we put
21 everybody on it, reverse the process and keep
22 those -
23 SENATOR SKELOS: I think it would
24 be if the person wants to go on -- the Senator
25 wishes to sponsor the resolution, they should
2001
1 indicate to the desk.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
3 Members will indicate to the desk that they want
4 to be on.
5 Senator Skelos, that brings us to
6 the reading of the calendar.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. Could we
8 have the reading of the non-controversial
9 calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the non-controversial
12 calendar.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an
15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
16 crime of false personation.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority
20 Leader.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A,
23 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
24 relation to authorizing infrastructure exemption
25 in certain instances.
2002
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority
4 Leader.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 114, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 98, an act
7 to amend the Domestic Relations Law and the
8 Family Court Act, in relation to the granting of
9 custody of a minor.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 119, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 817, an act
22 to amend the Family Court Act, in relation to
23 extensions of child placement.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will read the last section.
2003
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 120, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1483, an act
11 to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to
12 requiring an investigation of all reports of
13 child abuse.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 254, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly
2004
1 Print 1836, an act establishing the chronic care
2 management demonstration program.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 257, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2581-A, an
15 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation
16 to designation of Secretary of State.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
18 the day.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside for the day.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 288, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1918, an
23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
24 increasing the penalties for repeat convictions.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2005
1 Secretary will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
3 act shall take effect on the first day of
4 November.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 304, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2577, an
13 act to ratify, legalize and validate certain
14 acts and proceedings of the Board of Education
15 of the Little Falls City School District.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
17 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2006
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an
4 act to amend the Social Services Law and the
5 Education Law, in relation to protection of
6 pupils.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,
12 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
13 relation to the transportation of certain
14 persons.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
16 the day.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 330, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1440, an
21 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
22 political committees.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2007
1 act shall take effect on the first day of
2 January.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an
11 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
12 cancellation of registration.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Secretary will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an
22 act to amend the Election Law and the State
23 Finance Law, in relation to requiring
24 proposition authorizing the creation of a state
25 debt.
2008
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
3 bill aside.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 350, by member of the Assembly Schimminger,
6 Assembly Print 1666, an act to amend the Local
7 Finance Law, in relation to the sale of bonds
8 and notes for the city of Buffalo.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
10 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
11 will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 351, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1295, an
22 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
23 relation to creating the town of Southampton
24 Industrial Development Agency.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
2009
1 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
2 will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
9 the results when tabulated.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1,
11 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 352, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1379, an
16 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to the
17 exclusion of the Pyramid Mall water district.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
19 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
20 will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2010
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 355, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2485, an
6 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
7 Nassau to accept an application.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1,
16 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Skelos, that completes
20 the reading of the non-controversial calendar.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: May we have the
22 controversial reading of the calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the controversial calendar,
25 beginning on page 6, Calendar Number 12, by
2011
1 Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B.
2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
3 it seems like this is -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Volker, can we read the bill and get the title
6 -- get the bill before the house before we get
7 into a debate on it.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an
11 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to crime
12 of false personation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Volker, an explanation has been asked for by
15 Senator Montgomery.
16 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
17 this is a bill that is designed to plug a hole
18 in the law that has come up over a series of
19 time. The bill came from some law enforcement
20 organizations in New York City and Long Island.
21 The issue involves the fact that
22 there has been developed what is known as a hole
23 in the law of criminal impersonation. It is a
24 crime right now and it's a misdemeanor to
25 impersonate a police officer or impersonate a
2012
1 public official, whatever, and it's punishable
2 by -- as a Class A misdemeanor in certain cases
3 and can be even more severe, but what has
4 happened is that, where a person provides false
5 information and false -- and falsely gives a
6 false name or whatever, there is no -- there is
7 no crime for that, even though if that person
8 impersonated a police officer or a person -- a
9 public official, it would be a crime.
10 What this bill says is that that
11 could be a crime known as criminal personation
12 and because of the fact that they are seeking to
13 deceive law enforcement officers. Some people
14 have said, Well, you don't have to make a
15 response and, therefore, this is wrong. The
16 problem is that's true. You don't have to make
17 a response, but when you lie and give someone
18 else's name and use someone else's name or give
19 false information, when you think about it, in a
20 -- in connection with a criminal investigation,
21 there should be some way to penalize these
22 people, and that's where the bill comes from.
23 It is called a crime of personation -- false
24 personation, which is a misdemeanor.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2013
1 Montgomery.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
3 President. I would ask if the sponsor would
4 yield to a question.
5 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
9 Volker, my records show that we voted on this
10 and my recollection is that we voted on this
11 before. Is there anything different? Did you
12 do anything different with this bill?
13 SENATOR VOLKER: Not basically
14 different. It -- the -- it's, I believe,
15 basically the same bill as last year, which I do
16 believe that you voted against.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Montgomery.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
20 President, I just want to remind my colleagues
21 that there were three votes in opposition to
22 this legislation. I believe the issue certainly
23 that I raised when I debated the last time and
24 my sentiments remain that the bill, while it
25 certainly is well intended and I think it does
2014
1 carry the language here that it says "after
2 being informed of the consequences of such act",
3 but despite that safeguard in the bill, the
4 probability that some people, especially young
5 people, might be particularly prone to being
6 affected by this legislation without really
7 understanding the full consequence of having a
8 Class A misdemeanor on their record, I'm going
9 to vote against this legislation again.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
12 (There was no response.)
13 Hearing none, the Secretary will
14 read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect on the first day of
17 January.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
22 the results when tabulated.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
24 the negative on Calendar Number 12, Senator
25 Leichter and Montgomery. Ayes 52, nays 2.
2015
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 The Secretary will continue to
4 read the controversial calendar.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A,
7 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
8 relation to authorizing an infrastructure
9 exemption in certain instances.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number
13 61 has been requested by the Acting Minority
14 Leader, Senator Paterson.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. This
16 was a bill that passed 58 to zero last year and
17 it's a bill that did not go through the
18 Assembly. This year they wanted me to eliminate
19 the legislative intent which basically didn't
20 add much and Assemblyman Schimminger indicated
21 that he thought then he could move the bill this
22 year, but basically it's a bill that would give
23 the localities an option to exempt
24 infrastructure improvements by a residential
25 home builder until such time as a certificate of
2016
1 occupancy is granted by the town or the village
2 in order to occupy the premises and it applies
3 to -- it gives the local option to all cities
4 other than cities over a million in the state of
5 New York, namely New York City.
6 It's a local option, but the
7 reason for it is there's a very difficult new
8 home market in the Central New York area, and
9 I'm sure in other areas of the state, that there
10 are builders who have made these improvements to
11 the property and are holding these lots and
12 holding the homes that are partially built
13 without certificate of occupancies and paying
14 taxes for improvements which ultimately will be
15 dedicated to the village or the town anyway once
16 this house is actually occupied.
17 So it provides an exemption just
18 as if an individual was holding another type of
19 product and wouldn't have to pay sales tax until
20 they actually sold the product. This happens to
21 be a product which has not been sold yet and
22 we're trying to give the home builders a break
23 in view of the depressed market in Central New
24 York and other areas of the state.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2017
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 if Senator DeFrancisco would yield to a
4 question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
11 recognize in this legislation that it creates an
12 option for the local governments and so,
13 therefore, that would be a decision that the
14 local government would make but why, in your
15 opinion, would the local government allow for a
16 tax shift from the developer to other entities
17 in a situation where even after the development
18 is completed, there are going to be certain
19 maintenances in which the local government is
20 going to have to pay sewage removal, different
21 types of public services to the entity that's
22 constructed and so what would be the reason to
23 create almost a zoning bonus and allow for the
24 developer not to have to pay any taxes when
25 probably other citizens in the -- in the area
2018
1 that's covered by the local government are going
2 to have to pick up those costs?
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's the
4 same as any other local option for an exemption,
5 whether it be a senior citizen exemption, a
6 veteran's exemption or an exemption for any
7 other reason that a government may have a local
8 option on and it's a question of whether some of
9 these businesses are going to be able to
10 continue doing business in view of the depressed
11 home building market.
12 Some towns may think this is a
13 good idea. They may feel that it's -- in the
14 long term, it's better to give a little at this
15 point so that these builders can sell these
16 homes in the long term and give this break
17 because ultimately there's going to be a much
18 more substantial amount of taxes that are going
19 to be collected from an occupied home and to
20 encourage builders to continue making the
21 improvements in the situation where they're not
22 selling houses right now.
23 If these don't -- if something
24 like this didn't happen, a locality may say,
25 well -- a builder may say to the locality, we're
2019
1 not going to make the improvements that are
2 ultimately going to be yours. We're going to
3 wait until such time as we actually have
4 everything sold and the municipality may say,
5 let's get the improvements done and when the
6 house is sold, we'll take over the improvements
7 and we'll raise the taxes at that time as an
8 occupied premise.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his
13 response.
14 On the bill, Mr. President, I was
15 impressed by Senator DeFrancisco's assertion
16 that with the market as it stands right now,
17 this probably would be a good stimulant, but I
18 would like to point out that the New York
19 Conference of Mayors and the School Boards
20 Association oppose it.
21 In some respects, we have to look
22 at whether or not the market really can -- will
23 really afford this kind of expansion when we
24 think about the fact that this will certainly
25 create opportunities for developers, where had
2020
1 they been taxed, they might not be as frugal in
2 their attempt to develop, we certainly can
3 understand the need at any point, whether it's
4 senior citizen prescription discounts or whether
5 it's legislation designed to energize
6 development in a particular area, that we as a
7 government would want to be of assistance, but
8 the question is whether or not the expansion of
9 the market, in this case, would actually be what
10 would be the most suggested thing to do in these
11 situations.
12 It's really a very close call.
13 The bill has a great deal of merit, but I wanted
14 to raise those concerns.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
17 (There was no response.)
18 Hearing none, the Secretary will
19 read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1,
2021
1 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an
6 act to amend the Social Service Law and the
7 Education Law.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 308
11 has been requested by Senator Paterson.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 Mr. President, this bill would
15 create statutorily a means for the reporting and
16 investigation of allegations of child abuse or
17 child sexual abuse in a school setting.
18 Currently, the law is totally
19 void of any procedure or standardized process to
20 deal with this issue. Certainly there have been
21 enough reports from various areas of the state
22 of these situations occurring in school settings
23 with no coordinated response.
24 Now, we place our children in
25 school settings with the understanding that
2022
1 there is an element of security and trust
2 associated with being in those settings and my
3 assumption is that that is why, when this bill
4 was considered last year, it passed 59 to
5 nothing.
6 What we do here is create that
7 mechanism, requires school personnel, school
8 building superintendents to respond to these
9 allegations, to make sure that they're handled
10 appropriately and turned over to law enforcement
11 for investigation and what it does particularly
12 is to make void as against public policy the
13 idea of the so-called silent resignation. And
14 what is a silent resignation?
15 What that is is, when there is an
16 incident that occurs involving abuse or sexual
17 abuse, the offending person is permitted to
18 resign in lieu of any procedure being brought,
19 whether it's civil or criminal, and that person
20 can then go on to another jurisdiction where he
21 or she may commit the very same acts that led to
22 the resignation in the first place. No
23 consequences, no follow up, no trail.
24 This bill is an effort to deal
25 with that problem. This bill is one of the
2023
1 focuses of the Children and Families committee
2 this year and this bill is a bill which affords
3 protection to our children and I would assume
4 would be embraced by everybody in the process
5 for basically endeavoring to keep the
6 educational institutions, places, as I said
7 earlier, that are intended to be safe and
8 protective of our children and not places where
9 they can be abused with little or no consequence
10 or little or no ability for any kind of
11 effective response.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
15 much, Mr. President.
16 If Senator Saland would yield for
17 a question.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator
20 Paterson?
21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I was
2024
1 especially impressed in 1996 with your remarks
2 concerning the statewide legislation that we
3 passed concerning domestic violence and some of
4 your admonitions to this body about the false
5 accusations and often -- and I think it was you
6 that pointed it out -- the fact that the
7 accusation of child abuse is made almost
8 regularly in custody battles and so, therefore,
9 I would pretty much assume that in offering this
10 piece of legislation, that your concerns were
11 extended such that you would have some idea of
12 how to protect an individual who is just simply
13 accused and then goes on hopefully for a career
14 in education and is not an abuser of children or
15 an abuser of anyone but simply because of some
16 litigation, had the charge made against him to
17 enhance the opponent -- the opponent's
18 bargaining position during some sort of civil
19 action.
20 I was wondering if you would
21 share with us how you feel a person who would be
22 falsely accused in this way would still be
23 protected while at the same time you accomplish
24 the goal that you just stated that's in your
25 legislation?
2025
1 SENATOR SALAND: Let me see -
2 I'm glad that you asked that question and let me
3 see if I can respond to your satisfaction, and I
4 think the genesis of your question may well come
5 from the NYSUT memo in opposition, and I think
6 there are two weaknesses in the underlying
7 premises for the NYSUT memo.
8 In the first instance, they refer
9 to the Prealta case. Now, the Prealta case, as
10 you're aware, basically says that where you have
11 an employer request, the fact that the standard
12 of mere credible evidence is what is used for
13 the reports that are submitted to the registry
14 and where the basis of whether they were founded
15 or unfounded is not good enough and the court
16 said in that particular case that the standard
17 has to be a preponderance of the evidence.
18 This does not change that because
19 what happens -- what would happen in this
20 situation would be, were there, in fact, an
21 employer request, a request by a school district
22 to access the central registry as is provided
23 under this bill, where there would be a hit, the
24 registry would be required to provide the
25 respondent the opportunity for an expungement
2026
1 hearing. The burden of proof would be on DSS to
2 show by a preponderance of the evidence that the
3 allegations in question were correct or true by
4 a preponderance of the evidence. So the
5 position raised by NYSUT is absolutely abjectly
6 erroneous and incorrect if the implication was
7 that somehow there was no protection there.
8 Secondly, the question of
9 unfounded reports, something we should -- as you
10 know, I had great concern about when we dealt
11 with the issue of Elisa, there would not be the
12 bill under this proposal to access those
13 fundamental reports. Only CPS workers under the
14 definitions provided under Elisa's Law can
15 access those reports, that an employer pursuant
16 to a screen seeks to access those reports, it's
17 just not doable. There cannot be employer
18 access or a response to an employer inquiry to
19 access those reports.
20 So I think, while the concerns
21 perhaps were legitimate, I think that had they
22 reflected a little longer and dug a little
23 deeper, they would have realized that there
24 really was no, in fact, foundation for them.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2027
1 Paterson, is that sufficient?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
5 recognizes Senator Waldon.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
7 much, Mr. President.
8 Would the gentleman yield to a
9 question?
10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Senator yields, Senator Waldon.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
15 much, Mr. President.
16 Senator Saland, I was trying to
17 carefully listen to what you were saying in
18 response to Senator Paterson's inquiries, but I
19 did not recall your saying anything in regard to
20 the silent resignations. Was that accurate
21 because I was distracted for a moment?
22 SENATOR SALAND: Could I ask you
23 to speak up, Senator Waldon.
24 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize.
25 Did you make any statements in regard to silent
2028
1 resignations when you responded to the inquiry
2 of Senator Paterson?
3 SENATOR SALAND: No, I didn't
4 think that the focus of his questions dealt with
5 that issue.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Okay. I
7 apologize for not hearing the thrust of his
8 question fully. My concern of the moment is, is
9 there any data regarding these silent
10 resignations? Is there a number that you know
11 of or does anyone know of?
12 SENATOR SALAND: The information
13 is anecdotal at this point, but in all candor,
14 were there merely one of them, it would trouble
15 me vitally and the anecdotal information would
16 indicate that there's been more than one
17 instance in which this has occurred.
18 I certainly would not want to, in
19 effect, continue a practice that puts young
20 people at risk, keeping in mind that we've told
21 our children that there are certain authority
22 figures whom they're supposed to respond to,
23 respect and effectively obey and if somebody in
24 that position of trust, be it a teacher or a
25 school administrator, takes advantage of that
2029
1 position of trust to cause abuse or violence to
2 a child, the resolution should not be a silent
3 resignation. There should be the full impact of
4 the law brought to bear on that person.
5 SENATOR WALDON: If I may
6 continue, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Saland, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Senator continues to yield.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Saland,
14 I don't think that I nor any of our colleagues
15 would disagree with you in regard to, in fact,
16 anecdotal studies which evidence that people
17 have been using their positions of authority to
18 abuse our children. My concern is are there
19 really enough cases to warrant this action?
20 Now, what you said was very commendable, that if
21 there's one -- but one -- we should do something
22 about that -- and I would agree with that, but I
23 wanted to know, was there any real evidence?
24 I have one other concern, if I
25 may continue, and this is a question. Once -
2030
1 I'm sorry.
2 SENATOR SALAND: There have been
3 media accounts here in New York State of the
4 occurrence of this type of an event.
5 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue,
6 Mr. President? Would the gentleman continue to
7 yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Saland, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Senator continues to yield.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
15 much, Mr. President.
16 Senator Saland, do you have any
17 information -- never mind. I'll withdraw the
18 question.
19 Thank you very much, Senator
20 Saland.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
22 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
23 Senator Montgomery wishes to
24 speak.
25 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
2031
1 President. I would like to ask if Senator
2 Saland would yield to a question of
3 clarification.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator
6 Montgomery?
7 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
8 President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
12 Saland, the legislation seems to allow for a
13 telephone call and/or a child's accusation to
14 trigger the process of reporting a case of child
15 abuse or mistreatment -- maltreatment.
16 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry,
17 Senator. You said something about a telephone
18 call.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: A telephone
20 call and/or a child's reporting to someone in
21 the school that someone else has maltreated or
22 abused that child. I'm just looking at the
23 first page, line 15.
24 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, Mr.
25 President. Is there a question that's been
2032
1 posed for me?
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: My question
3 is does the legislation as it appears based on
4 what I read here, is this process triggered by a
5 simple telephone call from a parent or a person
6 and/or a child's reporting to someone in that
7 school?
8 SENATOR SALAND: The section to
9 which you refer is the section of the Social
10 Services Law that deals with the workings of the
11 central registry and if you read that section,
12 it basically talks about the receipt of a
13 telephone call and how the central registry
14 shall respond and what we've merely done here at
15 the conclusion of that paragraph is add language
16 to this already existing provision that says,
17 where you receive such a call -- where such call
18 is received by the central registry, the
19 department will notify the superintendent of
20 schools in which that child attends.
21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Based on the
22 telephone call to the registry by the -- by
23 someone or a child in the school that something
24 has occurred in the school? You're adding the
25 educational setting to that.
2033
1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, and there
2 is also a process that you may well be familiar
3 with in which a number of these things are
4 handled at a local level in which there are, as
5 you know, investigations. A number of these
6 situations are ones in which the calls are
7 received and in which no action is taken because
8 there's a question as to whether or not, in
9 fact, there is the requisite activities or
10 illegal acts that require the department to
11 respond.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. Now,
13 Senator, if you will continue to yield, I just
14 want to -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Saland, do you continue to yield?
17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator continues to yield.
21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The bill has
22 a number of people who are notified immediately
23 upon a -- upon a report of child abuse by a
24 person in the school setting, i.e. the
25 superintendent, the district attorney, the
2034
1 police chief, the sheriff or whomever, the Board
2 of Ed' and the child's parent and whomever else
3 and, at the same time, the person who is being
4 accused.
5 My question to you is -- and then
6 in -- at somewhere in here there's language that
7 says any breach of confidentiality is a Class A
8 misdemeanor for the person who is assumed, I
9 suppose, i.e. the superintendent, the principal
10 or wherever that breach takes place but, in
11 fact, there are a number of ways in which that
12 confidentiality can be breached, is it not,
13 based on this process, and I guess my question
14 is how do we protect a principal or a
15 superintendent or someone else from being
16 charged with a Class A misdemeanor for a breach
17 of confidentiality over which they have no
18 control, actually?
19 SENATOR SALAND: Well, the
20 building principal or building superintendent,
21 once they have done what's required of them in
22 this bill, whether it's to notify the parent, to
23 notify the school superintendent, whether it's
24 to notify the district attorney, they have done
25 what is required of them. Were they, in fact,
2035
1 to notify some person who is not provided for in
2 this particular proposal, then they would have
3 breached confidentiality. The law is clear as
4 to whom should be notified and if, in fact, one
5 of those entities then goes further, that is not
6 obviously something that was done by or was
7 intended to be done by a school principal or
8 whomever might have lodged the report on behalf
9 of the school district.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
11 I guess -- last question, Mr. -- last question,
12 if you would yield, Senator Saland.
13 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
14 President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator continues to yield.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: You
18 mentioned the expungement hearings and how they
19 work, and my question to you in relationship to
20 the central registry, do we have any idea how
21 many cases have actually been expunged that were
22 unfounded in the registry?
23 SENATOR SALAND: Well, as you
24 know, there -- I couldn't quantify the number of
25 cases in the central registry that were
2036
1 previously expunged but with the change that
2 occurred in the law when we did Elisa's Law,
3 expungement at this point in New York State's
4 life, so to speak, is something that's
5 historical. There is not a procedure for that.
6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
7 Thank you, Senator Saland.
8 Mr. President, briefly on the
9 bill. I think there are a lot of -- there's a
10 lot of merit in the intent of this legislation.
11 Certainly we want to protect children and we
12 want to, as quickly as possible, remove from any
13 school setting a person who is abusing children,
14 but I think the bill here leaves an opening for
15 a number of glitches along the way that could,
16 in fact, essentially destroy a person's career
17 in the area of whatever they're doing in the
18 school and if they're a school psychologist or a
19 teacher or whoever may be involved in such an
20 accusation and certainly if we are using the
21 central registry at all and if anyone's name is,
22 for whatever reason, inadvertently or not,
23 placed in that registry, as Senator Saland
24 admits and as our law now states, they will
25 basically -- could be in there for at least a
2037
1 good portion of what would be their career
2 life.
3 So I think the bill, as it is
4 written, without some specific safeguards to
5 protect people from becoming -- being one
6 accused of a crime of confidentiality, a
7 breaching of confidentiality, from the level of
8 the school right on down to the parent or from
9 having people who may have a very good and
10 legitimate argument or who may have absolutely
11 mistakenly been accused but nonetheless being
12 thrown into a process where they could have
13 their careers damaged for life, I would
14 certainly urge a vote in the negative on this
15 legislation and I would hope that Senator Saland
16 could, in fact, figure out ways in which we
17 could tighten this up so that we don't do the
18 unintended and, Mr. President, I have been to
19 expungement hearings when we were supposedly
20 able to do them and I can tell you in no
21 uncertain terms, those expungement hearings do
22 not result -- or did not result even when it was
23 possible they did not result in expungement and
24 very often people are in the registry and they
25 don't even know that they're in there.
2038
1 So I think there is a very good
2 and legitimate reason why NYSUT opposes this
3 legislation, and I'm going to vote in the
4 negative in support of that as well as other
5 issues, as I have raised.
6 Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
9 Senator Leichter.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator
11 Saland would yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Saland, do you yield to Senator Leichter?
14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
15 President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think the
19 nature of the bill has somewhat been clarified
20 for me, but I'm not quite sure about some
21 aspects of it. I thank you and Senator
22 Montgomery for your discussion, and also Senator
23 Paterson.
24 I don't think anybody is raising
25 any issue or question of where there was a
2039
1 conviction of an employee of a school system and
2 certainly that information should be known to a
3 prospective employing school district.
4 I think the concern is where
5 there was an allegation of child abuse that's
6 been reported and is now in the central registry
7 -- and I want to focus on that -- and my
8 question is that records of alleged child abuse
9 in the registry that did not result in any
10 criminal action that are part of the record of
11 the registry will be made available to a
12 prospective employer, is that correct?
13 SENATOR SALAND: Let me see if I
14 understand your question. Are you saying where
15 there has not been -- what you will find in the
16 central registry are Article X cases which are
17 basically family offense/household type of
18 cases. You are asking me, I believe, where
19 there is an unfounded abuse allegation; is that
20 the thrust of your question?
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, where
22 there is -- an allegation is made that's in the
23 central registry where no criminal action was
24 taken. It was never referred to the D.A. or the
25 D.A. didn't take any action on it. Now, there
2040
1 could be a record of that allegation in the
2 central registry. Would that record be made
3 available to a prospective employing school
4 district?
5 SENATOR SALAND: There are two
6 parallel tracks here. One is fingerprinting
7 which goes to criminal records, and I believe
8 that's currently the practice in the city of New
9 York. When you become a school employee, you
10 are fingerprinted. School bus drivers are
11 fingerprinted. That deals with the criminal
12 side of the equation.
13 Where there has been a central
14 registry complaint or allegation and where it is
15 founded, there would be what I've termed a hit;
16 where it is unfounded, you would not have the
17 ability to access that information under this
18 bill because the allegation has to do with
19 something that occurred in a school setting and
20 not the traditional child abuse or child neglect
21 situation that you will find deposited or
22 reposited in the central registry.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what
24 happens in the instance where there was an
25 allegation of abuse in a school setting that's
2041
1 sent to the central register and, as you and I
2 know, the central register is often months
3 behind, thousands of cases where no finding has
4 been made either one way or the other. What
5 happens under your bill? Now there's a
6 requirement. I want to find out about Steve
7 Saland. He's applied for a job in my school
8 district. There's this allegation on the record
9 that's neither been founded or not founded nor
10 indicated. It's not been acted upon.
11 SENATOR SALAND: Understand that
12 this is not the only way these complaints come
13 into the system. You're describing one way in
14 which a complaint could come into this system
15 and what this bill case says is if somebody
16 contacts the central registry to report an abuse
17 situation, the central registry shall
18 communicate with the local school district by
19 notifying the superintendent of schools and then
20 this procedure begins where the superintendent
21 would notify the parents, would notify the
22 district attorney and there would be an
23 appropriate law enforcement investigation.
24 Again, if there was an unfounded
25 report, we no longer get involved with issues of
2042
1 expungement per se in the registry. You are -
2 you would, however, where it is an employer
3 request as distinguished from a CPS request,
4 under the case which I referred to earlier, you
5 would have the ability and you would have to be
6 notified of that ability in the name of due
7 process to have an expungement hearing. It's an
8 employer search, in this case, by the school
9 district. It's not a search by some social
10 service agency or some law enforcement agency.
11 I don't want to confuse apples and oranges
12 here.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator
14 Saland would continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Saland, do you continue to yield?
17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Senator continues to yield.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, for
22 my clarification, let's take this case. A child
23 comes homes and says, "My teacher, Steve Saland,
24 hit me today." . The mother is very upset. The
25 next day goes to the principal and says, "My son
2043
1 claims he was hit by this teacher", and so on.
2 I assume that's a complaint as to which all of
3 the forms that are provided for in your bill
4 need to be made.
5 SENATOR SALAND: You have to look
6 at the definition of what constitutes child
7 abuse, and if you look at -- on page 2,
8 beginning at line 37, it defines -- and child
9 abuse means "physical injury to a child caused
10 by other than accidental means or creating
11 substantial risk of death or serious or
12 protracted disfigurement to a child or
13 protracted impairment of physical health or
14 protracted loss or impairment to the function of
15 any bodily organ of a child or any child's
16 sexual abuse." So the mere fact that a teacher
17 might be accused, whether it be Steve Saland or
18 somebody else who would be the teacher of having
19 slapped a child, there would be definitional
20 questions here as to whether or not that
21 constitutes child abuse.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Hitting
23 somebody creates a physical injury. I was
24 slapped by my teacher, Steve Saland. That's a
25 physical injury, isn't it?
2044
1 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not quite
2 sure that each and every contact with another
3 person's body results in a physical injury.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I see
5 Senator Marcellino and he was a teacher and
6 maybe he was engaged in -- or saw these things
7 happening, so -- or maybe he just doesn't think
8 he can hit hard enough, but I would imagine a
9 physical injury, as you define it -- I mean, you
10 define physical injury to a child caused by
11 other than accidental means. Then you go on and
12 you have other definitions like leaving a mark
13 or protracted impairment, and so on, but as I
14 read this, striking somebody is a physical
15 injury. I've never heard striking somebody not
16 being a physical injury. As you and I know,
17 under the law of assault, you know, whether
18 you're hit by Sonny Liston or whether you're hit
19 by Franz Leichter is some difference but it's a
20 physical injury.
21 SENATOR SALAND: I would beg to
22 differ with you. What you're saying is that any
23 time there's bodily contact between two people,
24 that that ipso facto constitutes physical
25 injury, and I think that certainly is a
2045
1 stretch.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator,
3 with all due respect -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Leichter, are you asking Senator Saland to yield
6 to a question?
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator,
8 with all due respect -
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Leichter, excuse me. Are you asking Senator
11 Saland to yield to a question?
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I am, indeed.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
14 Senator Saland, do you yield to a question?
15 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, with
20 all due respect, if I might point out, I would
21 certainly tighten up the definitions because I
22 think that any school principal, school official
23 would really be at risk, considering that you
24 provide penalties -- criminal penalties if you
25 fail to file a report. If he comes and says,
2046
1 Well, he just slapped a kid, I don't think it's
2 a physical injury. It really is not clear at
3 all, and I think that's -- with all due respect,
4 I think that's a definitional flaw, but if I
5 could just proceed and continue.
6 Suppose it's -- she brings the
7 child in and there's a bruise. Would you agree
8 that that's a physical injury?
9 SENATOR SALAND: I would say that
10 certainly would appear to be a physical injury.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. And
12 whereupon a report is written up, is that
13 right?
14 SENATOR SALAND: Correct.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I assume
16 the principal calls in the teacher, Steve
17 Saland, and says, "Did you hit this kid", and he
18 says, "Absolutely not. He was in a fight with
19 another kid and I didn't do it", but as I read
20 the bill, the principal is still required to
21 file a report, is he not?
22 SENATOR SALAND: Correct.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: And does that
24 the report not get sent to the central
25 registry?
2047
1 SENATOR SALAND: That report -
2 that report, I believe, winds up being submitted
3 to the district attorney.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
5 Saland, if you would be so good as to continue
6 to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Saland, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Senator continues to yield.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand
14 it goes to the district attorney but doesn't it
15 also get sent to the central registry, or are
16 you saying that it does not get sent to the
17 central registry if the district attorney takes
18 no action on it, because my understanding is it
19 must be sent to the central registry.
20 SENATOR SALAND: There's
21 notification to the district attorney. The
22 central registry, again at the beginning of the
23 bill, is a -- is a means by which -- a report
24 which they have received becomes an object for
25 investigation. The central registry is searched
2048
1 as part of a screening process to determine if,
2 in fact, somebody has a -- has previously
3 engaged in conduct for which a founded report
4 was made. Once the report of child abuse or
5 child sexual abuse is made, the people who are
6 in the loop are people whom are school
7 authorities, parents and the district attorney.
8 The state Department of Education
9 gets into this loop where, in fact, there is a
10 conviction because then there is a notation on a
11 teacher's certificate of a conviction. If, in
12 fact, there is an appeal or a dismissal, that
13 notation is expunged. That notation is
14 available to nobody but a party who is a
15 prospective employer of that person. It is not
16 available to the general public. It is not
17 available to anybody else.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
19 understand what you're -- what you're trying to
20 do, and I have no problem if all we're dealing
21 with is an instance where there has, indeed,
22 been a conviction, but I'm not sure that you
23 achieve that because I -- as I read this bill, I
24 think that the report has to be sent to the
25 central register, and I refer you to -- let me
2049
1 just see. I had it here a moment ago. It's on
2 page 4 where -- line 12, that the report of
3 abuse in our example where teacher Steve Saland
4 has allegedly slapped a kid. There's a bruise.
5 The teacher says "I didn't do it. He was a
6 fight" because you said, if you look at line 12,
7 "forward such a report to appropriate law
8 enforcement authorities." You don't just say to
9 the district attorney. I read that to mean that
10 you've got to send this to the central
11 registry.
12 SENATOR SALAND: The central
13 registry is not a law enforcement authority.
14 The central registry is a repository for
15 complaints which are ultimately, in some
16 instances, referred to law enforcement
17 authorities.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator
19 -- again, if you would yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Saland, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Senator continues to yield.
2050
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: You're right.
2 I think that one can certainly say that the
3 central registry is not a law enforcement body
4 as such but you're giving them certain functions
5 and duties in relation to keeping records so
6 that it would be so easy, frankly, to clarify
7 this -- and I think both Senator Montgomery and
8 Senator Paterson had the same concern and maybe
9 the NYSUT would not have an objection if it was
10 clear that the only allegations or the only
11 record that is kept by the central registry is
12 if there has been, in fact, a conviction. I
13 think at that point -
14 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me. I'm
15 sorry. Let me let you continue and I'll
16 respond.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, please go
18 ahead.
19 SENATOR SALAND: Where the
20 conviction occurs, the repository for that
21 information is not the central registry. It's
22 the state Education Department and there would
23 be a notation that would go with the teacher's
24 certification, again confidential, available
25 only to someone who's doing an employment search
2051
1 with respect to that particular person.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Again, if you
3 would continue to yield -- and I appreciate your
4 answer, but that -- that, again puts the focus
5 on the central registry. Then what does the
6 central registry do? If our intent is to get
7 instances of convictions, that, you say, is
8 going to be kept -- that information is going to
9 be kept by the Board of Education -- I don't
10 mean by the Board of Education -- by the
11 Education Department. Now, what does the
12 central registry keep?
13 SENATOR SALAND: The central
14 registry is involved here in two ways. In the
15 first instance because many people, rightfully,
16 assume that if there is an allegation of neglect
17 or abuse, they should contact the central
18 registry hot line. They -- somebody, a parent,
19 perhaps, may take it upon themselves -- a parent
20 or guardian -- to contact the central registry
21 hot line and what we've provided for is not that
22 the central registry respond, as they would
23 typically do in contacting the local social
24 service department to do an investigation.
25 We've provided that the central registry will
2052
1 serve, in effect, as a referral agency to refer
2 this matter to the local school superintendent
3 of the local school district. That's one role
4 of the central registry.
5 The second role is, as part of an
6 employment screen, in order to determine if the
7 individual who is making application for a
8 position has either a criminal record or has
9 ever been found to have committed child abuse,
10 there is the ability to do a central registry
11 search. There is not the ability, as I
12 explained earlier, to go into unfounded
13 allegations. That is not within the parameters
14 of this bill and there's nothing in here that
15 amends or attempts to amend what occurred when
16 we adopted Elisa's Law to make this an
17 additional access means to those records.
18 That's not my intent and it's nothing that
19 occurs under this law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Leichter.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
23 if you would continue to yield.
24 Senator Saland, thank you. I
25 think you've certainly clarified something for
2053
1 me and maybe everybody here understood it
2 before, but I think now you're -- at least in my
3 viewpoint, you're in the soup. That's precisely
4 what Senator Montgomery and Senator Paterson
5 were concerned about and that's precisely what I
6 was trying to get to.
7 There's an allegation -- so
8 taking my example where there's a charge that
9 teacher Steve Saland hit this kid. So what the
10 mother does, the first thing she does is she
11 calls the central registry and says there's
12 child abuse at the local school. The next day
13 she sees the principal. The principal makes out
14 the form. That goes to the D.A. The D.A. looks
15 at it, investigates, finds out sure enough, the
16 kid was in a fight. Other kids testify to that
17 and no record whatsoever is ever generated
18 against Steve Saland, the teacher, but in the
19 meantime you've got that complaint hanging out
20 in the central registry.
21 Now, it's true, your bill says
22 that it's only where the complaint is indicated,
23 which is the language that's used in regard to
24 the central registry, but indicated, the central
25 registry doesn't conduct a careful criminal
2054
1 investigation. They may -- they may just call
2 up the kid and say what happened and the kid
3 says, Oh, this teacher, he lost his temper and
4 he hit me, and so on. You can end up with an
5 indicated report.
6 So under this example, teacher
7 Saland who is -- the D.A. has cleared it and
8 said, Oh, the kid just made that charge because
9 he didn't want his mother to know he was in a
10 fight in school, now the central registry has an
11 indicated child abuse finding and their
12 standard, Senator, as you know, is not beyond a
13 reasonable doubt. It's not even the
14 preponderance of the evidence. It's the
15 sheerest, merest evidence whatever and Teacher
16 Saland now applies to another school district.
17 He's never going to get another job within the
18 school district -- within the school system.
19 Isn't that the case?
20 SENATOR SALAND: I would
21 respectfully beg to differ with you because,
22 number one, the indicated standard certainly is
23 not as abused as you would indicate that it is.
24 When you look at the sheer number of cases and
25 see the way they are received by the central
2055
1 registry and see the way they funneled the way
2 through the process, the number of indicated
3 cases, I would guess -- and I just don't have a
4 recollection of all of them -- of the data -
5 would probably be somewhere in the area of no
6 more than about 20 percent, but let me come back
7 to what I said before in response to the inquiry
8 by Senator Paterson.
9 Where there is -- this screening
10 occurs when the teacher makes application for
11 his or her license. If, in fact, an indicated
12 comes up with the central registry, under the
13 existing regulations or practice, since the 1995
14 Prealta case, that person who would be the
15 respondent in that proceeding has the ability to
16 have that -- to have an expungement hearing
17 where the burden is on the department to show
18 not by merely credible evidence but by the
19 standard established in Prealta, which is a fair
20 preponderance of the evidence that, in fact,
21 there was an incident of child abuse. That's
22 the standard. It's not mere credible evidence.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Leichter.
2056
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
2 Saland, maybe one more question, I hope.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Saland, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
6 President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Senator continues to yield.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -- and
10 I don't know the answer to this.
11 SENATOR SALAND: I hope I do.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: When an
13 allegation of child abuse is made -- let's deal
14 just with the record of the central registry -
15 whether it's in the home or in school, and so
16 on, and a finding of indicated is made, does the
17 central registry call or notify the person who
18 is alleged to have committed this abuse that an
19 indicated allegation or an indicated charge -- a
20 charge has been made against that person that's
21 indicated, because my concern is you may not
22 know -- in my example, you may not know. You're
23 Steve Saland. You have been charged with this.
24 The D.A. looks at this and says "Absurd. Never
25 did it." In the meantime, if you have been
2057
1 indicated by the child registry, you may not
2 know until eight or nine years, unless you're
3 notified, and I don't know whether they notify
4 you, but I just want to play out what happens if
5 you're not officially notified. It's ten years
6 later. Now you find out that crazy charge was
7 made against you that happened ten years ago.
8 Go ahead. Now establish the evidence that it
9 was unfounded.
10 SENATOR SALAND: Senator
11 Leichter, there is a notification procedure. If
12 it's purely a matter of a social service
13 investigation, there is notification. If the
14 matter is one in which there is some kind of
15 petition that results in which there is a Family
16 Court proceeding, there certainly is that
17 additional notification as well.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me, one
19 -- if I may, with your indulgence, Senator, one
20 more. Are you 100 percent sure, because I
21 looked -- I did some work on the central
22 registry some years ago, and I must tell you, it
23 works quite poorly. You can't have much faith
24 either in their findings of unfounded or in
25 their findings of indicated, but my belief at
2058
1 that time for -- and there was some good policy
2 reasons for it -- that they do not notify
3 somebody that allegations have been made or that
4 there is an indicated finding. That's my
5 recollection but it's somewhat dim. So I just
6 ask you to be 100 percent sure because it really
7 would otherwise impose an impossible burden, in
8 some cases, where there was an indicated finding
9 if you're never told about it.
10 SENATOR SALAND: Under the law
11 that -- well, let me say I handled a number of
12 these cases in a prior life when I did work for
13 my local county Social Service Department, and
14 there certainly were a number of ability -- a
15 number of ways in which notice was provided.
16 Under the law that existed until
17 we did Elisa's Law, there was a notification
18 procedure which required you to be notified of
19 the availability of an expungement hearing.
20 Now, I would like to be able to
21 say unequivocally and with absolute certainty
22 that there is a social service notification
23 mechanism. My belief is, Senator Leichter, that
24 there is one. It certainly would seem to be
25 virtually impossible where there is an indicated
2059
1 finding as distinguished from an unfounded -
2 where there is an indicated finding, it would be
3 beyond the pale of anything that would remotely
4 approach due process not to provide notice to
5 that individual to give them the opportunity to
6 contest that finding.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I may just say
8 counsel advised me that you're absolutely
9 correct then. My memory seems to be getting
10 worse and worse because -
11 SENATOR SALAND: I have the same
12 problem, and I thank your counsel.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: But I want to
14 thank you very much for your patience, Senator
15 Saland, and your answers.
16 Just very briefly on the bill, I
17 don't think any of us have any problem in
18 setting up a system whereby somebody who works
19 in the school system who had a been convicted of
20 an offense involving a child or, for that
21 matter, probably involving even if it's a
22 financial offense, certainly other school
23 districts where that person applies to certainly
24 should know that to set up a central registry,
25 that's fine. We ought to do that and I commend
2060
1 Senator Saland for doing it.
2 I just am concerned that there is
3 an over-reaching here because you have this
4 parallel system, if you will, whereby
5 allegations can be sent to the central registry
6 in the very case where a district attorney may
7 say there is absolutely no basis for any charges
8 against that school district employee. There
9 may be an allegation in the central registry.
10 It may end up being indicated. You're right.
11 You can say, well, you can go through expunging
12 proceedings but that puts a burden on you to
13 come to at least initiate the proceeding, to
14 take this action. You've described it and you
15 said that it provides full due process. I don't
16 know why that aspect of it really has to be part
17 of your bill because if in every instance, as
18 your bill provides, where there is an
19 allegation, it goes to the D.A., why shouldn't
20 that be enough? We are concerned here,
21 allegations within the school system.
22 I guess one of the things you're
23 trying to do is also to reach out. Maybe there
24 were allegations in the home and that's why you
25 refer to the central registry. I can see some
2061
1 reason or justification for it, but I think that
2 you're opening up really the search so widely
3 that I think that information may well come in
4 which is going to be damming. It's utterly
5 fatal to the employee. You know no school
6 system is going to hire somebody if there's an
7 indicated finding when, in point of fact,
8 knowing how the central registry works, it
9 really may not amount to anything whatsoever,
10 and I think it's that aspect of it that's
11 worrisome. I also -- as you and I were
12 discussing it, I think that your definition of
13 "physical injury" needs to be, in some
14 respects, tightened up because I think it is too
15 vague.
16 I wish you would make those
17 changes in the bill because I think that it's
18 much more likely to become law, and I think it
19 would be a much better law. It would really
20 cover the areas that we're truly concerned
21 about, which is some sort of criminal conviction
22 of somebody in the school system who now seeks
23 another job, certainly the employer should know
24 that.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2062
1 Dollinger.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
3 President, will Senator Saland yield to just a
4 couple of questions?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Saland, do you yield to a couple of questions
7 from Senator Dollinger? The Senator yields.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I
9 have been through this bill and there's
10 something that is just -- must have been left
11 out of the bill. Where is the appropriation to
12 pay the school districts and the Department of
13 Education for all the extra administrative time
14 that it's going to take to administer this?
15 SENATOR SALAND: I believe the
16 memo indicates that we feel this could be
17 accomplished with existing appropriations. We
18 don't believe that there are a flood or plethora
19 of these cases. It's fairly -- it can be
20 handled fairly routinely. The burden on the
21 school district is primarily a matter of a
22 notice procedure. After they've done their
23 notice procedure, to the district attorney, to
24 the respective people required, they're pretty
25 much out of the loop. SED has to be a
2063
1 repository for receipt of the information and,
2 again, quite candidly, I don't think we're
3 talking hundreds of cases here and even if there
4 were hundreds -- and I say quite candidly, I
5 don't think it's anywhere near that kind of
6 number -- you're not talking about a major
7 fiscal impact.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
9 you, Mr. President, do you have anything from
10 any school district anywhere in the state that
11 agrees with the statements you just made? Is
12 there anything from the school district where
13 they agree with you that they've got plenty -
14 SENATOR SALAND: The school
15 districts have been silent on this issue. In my
16 earlier remarks, I mentioned that there was
17 certain anecdotal information of media accounts
18 where these type of situations have occurred.
19 There's one situation in my own district in
20 which something like this has occurred. I'm not
21 quite sure what we will see if and when this
22 bill were to become enacted but there's nothing
23 here that I can remotely believe would
24 constitute any kind of a burden on either a
25 school district or the SED.
2064
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
2 you, Mr. President, just one other question. Is
3 there anything in state law currently that
4 prohibits the school districts from doing
5 exactly what your bill requires other than
6 maintaining the registry at the Department of
7 Education?
8 SENATOR SALAND: There is
9 absolutely nothing in state law that provides by
10 way of regulation or statute any guidance to any
11 school districts and the problem is that in any
12 number of instance, whether for the best of
13 reasons or the worst of reasons, school
14 districts have chosen not to deal with this
15 issue. In some instances, they may have
16 believed, whether for the best of reasons or for
17 the worst of reasons, that they were assisting
18 the child by not subjecting the child to
19 additional trauma, by bringing some type of a
20 proceeding on. In other instance, they may have
21 thought that they were limiting their liability
22 and perhaps their exposure or not letting the
23 general community know that something like this
24 had happened within their midst.
25 So the reality is that there is
2065
1 nothing on any record anywhere that's going to
2 indicate a mechanism for school districts to
3 follow. We believe this is reasonable. We
4 believe it accomplishes what we think it should
5 accomplish and, as I mentioned in my earlier
6 remarks, we're already requiring fingerprinting
7 of school bus drivers. The city of New York, I
8 believe fingerprints all of its school
9 employees.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
11 you, Mr. President. So you've never circulated
12 this bill to any school district and asked them
13 what the cost associated with the administrative
14 and criminal penalties that you now attached to
15 failure to process the administrative
16 requirements in this bill. No school district
17 is made in on that issue?
18 SENATOR SALAND: Quite honestly,
19 Senator, I think that is pure bunk. I mean, I
20 think you're reaching for an issue where none
21 exists. You're beating something to death. If
22 you're going to tell me -- if it's your sense
23 that there are a number of cases out there, that
24 there are hundreds if not thousands of these
25 cases, tell me about it. The fact is this bill
2066
1 has been out there for two or three years. The
2 School Boards Association has never uttered a
3 peep. NYSUT found us. They provided a memo.
4 We've heard nothing from the School Boards
5 Association and that may well be part of the
6 problem.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
8 you, Mr. President, just on the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Dollinger, on the bill.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is a
12 bill I think we've done in the past. I
13 understand Senator Saland's position, but every
14 time I get up here and talk about mandates, I'm
15 always reminded -- I think, Senator Saland, you
16 carried the massive mandate relief bill.
17 Remember the mandate relief in which we're
18 telling another level of government to do
19 something that we think is right, that we think
20 is the right thing to do and they come back to
21 us and say, Great. If you think it's such a
22 great thing to do, why don't you give us the
23 money to pay for it and, you know, the response
24 I've gotten every year I have been here is
25 three-fold:
2067
1 First of all, everybody says,
2 It's not that big a problem. It won't cost that
3 much money, to which I say, well, then why do we
4 need to do the bill if it isn't that big of a
5 problem.
6 The second response is, Oh,
7 they're already doing it, they're already out
8 there doing it. This bill just codifies it.
9 Well, if they're already doing it, why do we
10 need to tell them to do it?
11 And then the lsat thing I'm
12 always told, Listen, Senator, it's worth the
13 cost. No matter how much it costs, if we're
14 going to protect children, it's by far worth the
15 cost. We've told that to the school districts
16 for a century and every time they come it here,
17 they say, Give us some mandate relief, will
18 you? Is there some way you could stop telling
19 us what to do without paying for it? Put your
20 money where your mouth is. Stick a little $5
21 million appropriation in this bill. Make it
22 real. Give them a way to pay for it and they
23 will gladly welcome the ability to follow this
24 stringent outline that you've talked about,
25 Senator; but instead, we want to sit here and
2068
1 talk about mandate relief out of one corner of
2 our mouth and out of telling them wjat to do,
3 and how to prevent child abuse out of the other
4 one.
5 I voted for this bill in the
6 past. I'm probably commited to vote for it
7 again, Senator, but it seems to me, if you want
8 to make real sense, you want to really solve the
9 problem, tell them to do something. Give them
10 the funds to enable them to do it an do it right
11 and then we may really have a solution to this
12 problem and we can stop talking about these
13 massive bills at other times of the year when
14 mandate relief is the fashion instead of pre
15 venting child abuse.
16 I think this bill has got a huge
17 cost associated with it. Look at the computer
18 technology; look at the administrative time. I
19 think if we were honest and realistic with
20 ourselves, there would be an appropriation on
21 this bill and it might really mean something.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
24 (There was no response.)
25 The Secretary will read the last
2069
1 section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
3 act shall take effect on the 1st day of January.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
8 the results when tabulated.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Gold, to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
13 was listening to this debate and I did vote for
14 this in the past, and I just want it understood
15 that having heard the debate, I'm going to vote
16 in the negative on the arguments I heard from
17 Senator Montgomery and Senator Leichter.
18 Senator Dollinger's arguments may
19 have been interesting, but since they don't
20 cause him enough grief to vote no, my no vote is
21 a reflection of the arguments of Senator
22 Leichter.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Gold will be recorded in the negative.
25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
2070
1 the negative on Calendar Number 308: Senator
2 Connor, Gold, Kruger, Leichter, Montgomery,
3 Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, Smith, Stavisky and
4 Waldon, also Senator Markowitz. Ayes 49, nays
5 12.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 The Secretary will continue to
9 read the controversial calendar.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an
12 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
13 cancellation of registration.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Maltese, an explanation has been asked for by
17 Senator Leichter.
18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
19 the bill is to amend the Election Law, in
20 relation to the cancellation of registration.
21 This bill would remove the
22 requirement that a Board of Elections send a
23 notice to a person whose voter registration is
24 cancelled because the voter died.
25 Now, this would apply where New
2071
1 York City and New York State Boards of Health
2 are required to send notifications to the county
3 boards. It's one of the few times that
4 bureaucracies have resulted in the elimination
5 of some bureaucratic steps. I appreciate the
6 opportunity for a request for an explanation
7 because it gives me the opportunity at this time
8 to use a Cook County, Chicago, Illinois statute
9 which I believe read something like dying is not
10 a sufficient reason to avoid the civic duty of
11 voting.
12 I was hoping that Senator
13 Oppenheimer would be here, and I want to give
14 her an opportunity because she has a little
15 adage something quite like it.
16 I think the sections are very
17 clear. What happened here apparently is that,
18 when they deleted the requirement of
19 notification, they deleted the requirements and
20 did not specifically refer to the dying of a
21 registered voter.
22 So this was at the request of the
23 state Board of Elections, and we attempted to
24 comply.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
2072
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leichter.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator
4 Maltese, you certainly are interfering with a
5 traditional right and certainly there are
6 places, I've heard it said, there are some
7 politicians who have said, I want to be buried
8 in Chicago because I want to remain active in
9 politics.
10 The truth of the matter is,
11 Senator, when I laid this bill aside, I thought
12 we were dealing with 330, and obviously I don't
13 think anybody objects to removing the name of a
14 registrant who has died, but I just want to make
15 this comment, Senator, and maybe if you bring up
16 330, we'll have an opportunity.
17 Our campaign finance law, our
18 Election Law, is a disgrace, utter absolute
19 disgrace. Now, I'm glad that you're addressing
20 a burning issue, but I say with all respect to
21 you as chair of the Election Law Committee, that
22 there are things that we desperately need to do
23 as far as campaign financing is concerned
24 because, with all the abuses that we've seen
25 reported on the national level, we have a sewer
2073
1 here in New York State, and I'm not charging one
2 particular party or the other.
3 I've issued reports that shows
4 that your party, Senator Maltese, has been
5 highly imaginative in doing end runs around our
6 campaign finance law, but I say to you there's a
7 real obligation to take some action and I would
8 hope that when this session ends, that we as a
9 Legislature, if we're asked, What did you do
10 about the Election Law and campaign financing,
11 that we get up very proudly and say, Oh, you
12 know, we said that, when somebody has died,
13 their name has to be removed from the registry.
14 Senator, we need to do more than
15 that. Important as the step you're taking
16 today, let's go much, much further.
17 Thank you.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Will Senator
19 Maltese yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Maltese, do you yield to Senator Skelos?
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Did you ever
24 have the opportunity to visit the Lincoln
25 bedroom in the White House?
2074
1 SENATOR MALTESE: No, I haven't,
2 Senator Skelos, but I want to use this
3 opportunity, since I'm on my feet to berate
4 Senator Leichter, because he used Senator
5 Oppenheimer's joke that this supposedly took
6 place in Mamaroneck.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
8 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
9 (There was no response.)
10 Hearing none, the Secretary will
11 read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 61.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an
22 act to amend the Election Law and State Finance
23 Law, in relation to requiring a proposition
24 authorizing the creation of a state debt.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
2075
1 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very
2 much.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Farley, an explanation has been asked for.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me begin by
6 thanking Senator Dollinger for supporting this
7 bill last year.
8 This bill amends the Election Law
9 and it requires that the bond issue -- a bond
10 issue proposition that goes on the ballot
11 contain an estimate of the total amount to be
12 repaid by the taxpayers, both principal and
13 interest. At present, only the principal is
14 listed. This is kind of a truth in borrowing
15 law, and it also provides that any descriptive
16 documents prepared by the state relating to the
17 bond issue list both principal and interest.
18 This passed the Senate
19 unanimously last year, and actually what this
20 does, this is similar to consumer borrowing that
21 requires disclosure of the total expected costs.
22 Now, somebody might ask, as you
23 would ask, is how do you know what the interest
24 rate will be? Well, you really don't. The
25 Comptroller will have to estimate what the
2076
1 interest rate would be with his -- with his best
2 guess, I guess you could say, and it would be
3 reflected in that total amount and, again, until
4 those bonds go out, you wouldn't know for sure.
5 It's designed to reflect the
6 administrative reality by providing an estimate
7 of the total cost insomuch as the actual rate of
8 interest at which obligations can be determined
9 in advance.
10 Also, this bill calls for
11 disclosure to be printed in the largest type
12 which is practicable for the different documents
13 involved, recognizing administrative realities
14 of varying documents on the ballot.
15 Basically, that's the -- I guess
16 that's it.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
20 President, I don't need to question Senator
21 Farley. I'm just going to repeat history.
22 I did support this bill,
23 Senator. I'm not going to support it this time,
24 because, as you may recall, last year when we
25 did the Environmental Bond issue, I stood up and
2077
1 proposed an amendment which would require that
2 when we submitted the environmental bond to
3 voters, we stated exactly what the interest
4 accrual would be on that bond over 30 years,
5 which would have transformed a $1.75 billion
6 bond issue into the true cost to voters, which
7 is about 3.1 billion.
8 At that time I came before this
9 house. I proposed an amendment that we dis
10 close the interest, that we actually take this
11 bill and take the principle which you and I
12 share and put it into place. We had the
13 opportunity to do that. We didn't do it, and
14 now we're going to pass a bill, with all due
15 respect to Senator Farley -- this is a good bill
16 -- I just can't support the idea of doing it in
17 form but not doing it in practice. We had an
18 opportunity to do it; the Majority of this house
19 voted it down, and I can only assume, Senator,
20 that they're not committed to this principle
21 when it really means something.
22 We had an opportunity to do it
23 last time. I came up with an amendment. The
24 Majority all voted against it, so I can assume
25 that this bill has some poster meaning but no
2078
1 real meaning, Senator.
2 I appreciate it. I support the
3 concept. I can't do it anymore. I'm accused of
4 hypocrisy at other times. Today I'm going to
5 try, on this vote anyway, try to be consistent
6 and say I supported you in the past. I wanted
7 to do it when you had a chance to make it real,
8 to tell the people of this state that what they
9 were sold for 1.75 billion actually cost about
10 3.2 billion over 30 years.
11 We had a chance to do it. We
12 didn't do it. It doesn't seem to me to make
13 sense to go back to this bill when we weren't
14 committed to do it then and it doesn't seem to
15 me that we're committed to it now.
16 I'm going to vote no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
25 the results when tabulated.
2079
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 is there any housekeeping at the desk?
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60, nays 1,
4 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
6 is passed.
7 To answer your question, Senator
8 Skelos, there is one substitution we would like
9 to take up, if we can. I would ask the
10 Secretary to read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi
12 moves to discharge from the Committee on
13 Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number
14 2101 and substitute it for the identical Senate
15 Bill 2921-A.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 substitution is ordered.
18 Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
20 there being no further business, I move we
21 adjourn until Wednesday, March 26th, at 11:00
22 a.m., sharp.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
24 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate
25 stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday,
2080
1 March 26th, at the regular time, 11:00 a.m.
2 (Whereupon, at 4:52 p.m., the
3 Senate adjourned.)
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