Regular Session - March 25, 1997

                                                                 
1978

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         March 25, 1997

        10                           3:05 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                        REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        20

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        25







                                                             
1979

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.  Would you please rise and join

         4       with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (The assemblage repeated the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         7                      May we bow our heads in a moment

         8       of silence.

         9                      (A moment of silence was

        10       observed.)

        11                      The reading of the Journal,

        12       please.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        14       Monday, March 24th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        15       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, March 23rd,

        16       was read and approved.  On motion, the Senate

        17       adjourned.

        18                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        19       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        20                      Presentation of petitions.

        21                      Messages from the Assembly.

        22                      Messages from the Governor.

        23                      Reports of standing committees.

        24                      The Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully,







                                                             
1980

         1       from the Committee on Water Resources

         2       Commissions, offers up the following bills:

         3                      Senate Print 1465-A, by Senator

         4       Tully, an act to amend the Environmental

         5       Conservation Law;

         6                      2733, by Senator Cook, an act to

         7       amend the Soil and Water Conservation Districts

         8       Law.

         9                      Senator Alesi, from the Committee

        10       on Consumer Protection, offers up the following

        11       bills:

        12                      Senate 2951, by Senator Seward,

        13       an act to amend the General Business Law, in

        14       relation to willfully installing a fire

        15       protection system;

        16                      3525, by Senator Alesi, an act to

        17       amend the General Business Law, in relation to

        18       telephone services.

        19                      Senator Lack, from the Committee

        20       on Judiciary, offers up the following bills:

        21                      Senate Print 3001, by Senator

        22       Lack, concurrent resolution of the Senate and

        23       Assembly, proposing an amendment to Article VI

        24       of the Constitution;

        25                      3304, by Senator Leibell,







                                                             
1981

         1       concurrent resolution of the Senate and

         2       Assembly, proposing an amendment to Section 1

         3       Article VI of the Constitution;

         4                      3444, by Senator Saland, an act

         5       to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the Public

         6       Health Law and others, in relation to fees

         7       charged for the issuance of a marriage license;

         8                      Senator Padavan, from the

         9       Committee on Cities, offers up the following

        10       bills:

        11                      Senate Print 3187, by Senator

        12       Seward, an act authorizing and directing the

        13       city of Ithaca to establish a photo radar

        14       monitoring demonstration.

        15                      Senator Spano, from the Committee

        16       on Labor, offers up the following bills:

        17                      Senate Print 1384-A, by Senator

        18       Spano, an act to amend the Labor Law and the

        19       Public Health Law;

        20                      1560, by Senator Maltese, an act

        21       amend the Labor Law, in relation to certain

        22       employment of minors under 16 years of age;

        23                      3483, by Senator Spano, an act to

        24       amend the Labor Law, in relation to liability

        25       for non-payment of wages in the apparel







                                                             
1982

         1       industry.

         2                      Senator Stafford, from the

         3       Committee on Finance, offers up the following

         4       bills:

         5                      Senate Print 2-A, by Senator

         6       Bruno, an act to amend the Tax Law and the

         7       Public Services Law, in relation to a reduction

         8       in the rate of tax;

         9                      701-A, Budget Bill, an act making

        10       appropriation for the legal requirements of the

        11       state debt service;

        12                      2496, by Senator Johnson, an act

        13       to amend the State Finance Law and the Vehicle

        14       and Traffic Law;

        15                      3083, by Senator Padavan, an act

        16       to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to

        17       contracts;

        18                      3857, by the Committee on Rules,

        19       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law;

        20                      3865, by the Committee on Rules,

        21       an act to amend the State Finance Law;

        22                      3867, by the Committee on Rules,

        23       an act to amend the State Finance Law.

        24                      Senator Volker, from the

        25       Committee on Codes, offers up the following







                                                             
1983

         1       bills:

         2                      Senate Print 212-A, by Senator

         3       Nozzolio, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

         4       relation to registration of firearms;

         5                      341, by Senator Skelos, an act to

         6       amend the Penal Law, in relation to monetary

         7       standards;

         8                      589, by Senator Skelos, an act to

         9       amend the Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure

        10       Law;

        11                      1143, by Senator Saland, an act

        12       to amend the Penal Law;

        13                      1467, by Senator Volker, an act

        14       to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Family

        15       Court Act and the Penal Law;

        16                      1556, by Senator Leibell, an act

        17       to amend the Penal Law, the County Law and the

        18       Executive Law;

        19                      1593, by Senator Johnson, an act

        20       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to including

        21       court officer;

        22                      1957, by Senator Holland, an act

        23       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to fixing

        24       sentences;

        25                      1977, by Senator Kuhl, an act to







                                                             
1984

         1       amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal

         2       possession of a weapon in the third degree;

         3                      2643, by Senator Skelos, an act

         4       to amend the Penal Law;

         5                      3070, by Senator Padavan, an act

         6       to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         7       possession of gambling devices;

         8                      3407, by Senator Volker, an act

         9       to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation

        10       to the authority of police officers;

        11                      3456, by Senator Volker, an act

        12       to enact the Criminal Procedure Law Reformed Act

        13       of 1997.

        14                      Senator Rath, from the Committee

        15       on Local Governments, offers up the following

        16       bills:

        17                      Senate Print 2670, by Senator

        18       LaValle, an act to amend the Town Law, in

        19       relation to fire districts;

        20                      2843, by Senator Tully, an act to

        21       amend the Nassau Civil Divisions Act;

        22                      3133-A, by Senator Lack, an act

        23       to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation

        24       to duties of the director of real property tax

        25       services;







                                                             
1985

         1                      3139, by Senator LaValle, an act

         2       to amend the Town Law;

         3                      3140, by Senator LaValle, an act

         4       to amend the Town Law;

         5                      3267, by Senator Seward, an act

         6       to amend the Town Law, in relation to non

         7       resident volunteer firefighters;

         8                      3754, by Senator Rath, an act to

         9       amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992;

        10                      3864, by Senator Present, an act

        11       to amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992.

        12                      Senator Levy, from the Committee

        13       on Transportation, offers up the following

        14       bills:

        15                      Senate Print 99, by Senator Levy,

        16       an act in relation to authorizing a review of

        17       current drug impaired driving education;

        18                      272, by Senator Volker, an act to

        19       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        20                      475-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an

        21       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        22                      748, by Senator Present, an act

        23       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        24       relation to refunds of registration fees;

        25                      917, by Senator Levy, an act to







                                                             
1986

         1       amend the Public Authorities Law;

         2                      1344, by Senator Levy, an act to

         3       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation

         4       to a requirement to mandate full resident

         5       addresses;

         6                      2601, by Senator Velella, an act

         7       to amend the Public Authorities Law;

         8                      3421, by Senator Spano, an act to

         9       amend the Public Authorities Law;

        10                      3553, by Senator Levy, an act to

        11       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        12                      3863, by the Committee on Rules,

        13       an act to amend Chapter 329 of the Laws of 1991;

        14                      3866, by the Committee on Rules,

        15       an act to amend the Transportation Law.

        16                      Senator Marcellino, from the

        17       Committee on Environmental Conservation, offers

        18       up the following bills:

        19                      Senate Print 933, by Senator

        20       Maziarz, an act to amend the Environmental

        21       Conservation Law;

        22                      3103, by Senator LaValle, an act

        23       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

        24                      3679, by Senator Marcellino, an

        25       act to amend Chapter 471 of the Laws of 1996;







                                                             
1987

         1                      2921, with amendments, by Senator

         2       Marchi, an act to amend Chapter 395 of the Laws

         3       of 1978;

         4                      3834, by Senator Marcellino, an

         5       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

         6                      All bills directly for third

         7       reading.

         8                      THE PRESIDENT:  All bills direct

         9       to third reading.

        10                      The Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

        12       from the Committee on Judiciary, offers up the

        13       following nominations:  As judge of the New York

        14       State Court of Claims, Dora L. Irizarry, of New

        15       York County.

        16                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        17                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

        18       President.

        19                      I rise to move the nomination of

        20       Dora L. Irizarry as a judge of the New York

        21       State Court of Claims.  Judge Irizarry appeared

        22       before the Committee this morning, was

        23       unanimously moved to the floor.  Prior to that,

        24       she had been investigated by members of my staff

        25       and found to be eminently satisfactory and was







                                                             
1988

         1       sent before the entire Committee.

         2                      Judge Irizarry was appointed to

         3       the Criminal Court of the city of New York by

         4       Mayor Giuliani in 19... in December 1995.  She

         5       currently sits in New York County Criminal

         6       Court.

         7                      Prior to her appointment to the

         8       bench, she was a prosecutor for 16 years,

         9       beginning in 1979 when she became an assistant

        10       district attorney in the Appeals Bureau of the

        11       Bronx District Attorney's office.

        12                      In 1981, Judge Irizarry was

        13       assigned to the office of the New York City

        14       Special Narcotics Prosecutor and was a

        15       prosecutor for the remaining time until she

        16       became a judge by appointment of Mayor

        17       Giuliani.

        18                      She attended the Bronx High

        19       School of Science, graduated from Yale

        20       University with honors and distinction in

        21       political sociology and then from Columbia

        22       University School of Law.

        23                      The Governor is certainly to be

        24       congratulated on an outstanding appointment to

        25       the New York State Court of Claims and, Madam







                                                             
1989

         1       President, I would respectfully move the

         2       nomination and ask for you to congratulate Judge

         3       Irizarry as well as her son Justin who is

         4       accompanying her in our west -- east gallery.

         5                      Thank you.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Do any other

         7       members wish to speak on the nomination?

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The question is on the

        10       confirmation of Dora L. Irizarry as judge of the

        11       New York State Court of Claims.  All in favor

        12       please signify by saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye".)

        14                      Opposed, nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Dora L. Irizarry is hereby

        17       confirmed as judge of the New York State Court

        18       of Claims.

        19                      (Applause)

        20                      In the gallery are the judge's

        21       son, Justin Irizarry, several friends of the

        22       judge's.  We welcome you all.

        23                      The Secretary will read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  As a justice of

        25       the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial







                                                             
1990

         1       District, Burton S. Joseph, of Nassau County.

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

         3                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

         4       President.

         5                      I rise to move the nomination of

         6       Burton S. Joseph of Nassau County as a justice

         7       of the New York State Supreme Court.  Judge

         8       Joseph appeared before the Committee this

         9       morning, was unanimously endorsed and sent to

        10       the floor for consideration this afternoon, and

        11       I would proudly yield to Senator Hannon for

        12       purposes of a second.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Hannon.

        14                      SENATOR HANNON:  Madam President,

        15       I am delighted to be able to move the nomination

        16       of Burton S. Joseph to be a justice of the

        17       Supreme Court.

        18                      Judge Joseph currently serves on

        19       the Nassau County Family Court where he has been

        20       since 1984.  Prior to that, he had been a

        21       District Court judge, 1977 to 1984, and before

        22       that he had been senior deputy county attorney

        23       in the county attorney's office in Nassau

        24       County, where I had the distinct pleasure of

        25       serving with him for three years and really







                                                             
1991

         1       getting tutored -- one of the people who tutored

         2       me in the law.  So you're partially responsible,

         3       Judge.

         4                      I must say that having had a

         5       chance to watch him on the bench over the years,

         6       that he will make a distinct positive addition

         7       to the Supreme Court bench.  He has the

         8       intelligence and wisdom that are needed and more

         9       importantly, he has the patience.

        10                      I have seen him take the time

        11       with litigants in a landlord/tenant dispute or

        12       the people involved in a complicated Family

        13       Court matter, to take the time, to cut through

        14       the law that was applicable so that they would

        15       understand what they were facing.  They would

        16       understand the implications of what was being

        17       proposed, I think leading to a far better

        18       understanding and sense of justice than would

        19       otherwise be present.

        20                      I think that we are lucky that he

        21       is going to be serving on this bench and,

        22       therefore, I very proudly move his nomination.

        23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.

        24                      Does anyone else wish to speak on

        25       the nomination?







                                                             
1992

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      The question is on the

         3       confirmation of Burton S. Joseph as justice of

         4       the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial

         5       District.  All in favor please signify by saying

         6       aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Burton S. Joseph is hereby

        11       confirmed as justice of the Supreme Court for

        12       the Tenth Judicial District, and in the gallery

        13       is the judge's wife Rene and several guests.

        14       Congratulations.

        15                      (Applause)

        16                      The Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  As a justice of

        18       the Supreme Court for the Second Judicial

        19       District, Robert S. Kreindler, of Kings County.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        21                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

        22       President.

        23                      I rise once again to move the

        24       nomination of Robert S. Kreindler as a justice

        25       of the Supreme Court to serve in the Second







                                                             
1993

         1       Judicial District in Brooklyn.

         2                      Judge Kreindler began his career

         3       as a judge of the New York City Civil Court by

         4       appointment of Mayor Lindsay to an interim term

         5       in September 1966.  Subsequently, he was

         6       appointed to a full ten-year term as a judge of

         7       the Criminal Court of the city of New York and

         8       has thereafter been reappointed twice to

         9       ten-year terms in December of 1978 and in

        10       December 1988.

        11                      For 20 years, Judge Kreindler has

        12       been serving as an acting New York State Supreme

        13       Court justice in Kings County.  For my

        14       colleagues out of the City, that's pursuant to

        15       the special designation in the Constitution

        16       allowing for such appointments and one of the

        17       subjects of the restructuring bill which we have

        18       received from OCA and which shall be in further

        19       consideration in years to come.  That is by

        20       designation of the presiding justices of the

        21       Appellate Divisions in the First and Second

        22       Department.  In fact, although not a Supreme

        23       Court justice, Judge Kreindler has been serving

        24       longer in the criminal term of the Supreme Court

        25       than any justice in Brooklyn, elected or







                                                             
1994

         1       appointed.

         2                      He attended Brooklyn College and

         3       Brooklyn Law School, received his L.L.B. in June

         4       of 1950.  He has also served in the United

         5       States Attorney's office for approximately five

         6       years.  He appeared before the Committee this

         7       morning, was unanimously endorsed by the members

         8       of the Committee and sent to the floor for

         9       consideration this afternoon.

        10                      Mr. President, I would most

        11       respectfully congratulate the Governor on his

        12       appointment and move his confirmation at this

        13       time.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        15       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        16       nomination?

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Hearing none, the question is on

        19       the nomination of Robert S. Kreindler of Kings

        20       County to become a justice of the Supreme

        21       Court.  All those in favor signify by saying

        22       aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)

        24                      Opposed, nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
1995

         1                      The justice is unanimously

         2       confirmed.

         3                      We're very, very pleased to have

         4       Judge Kreindler in the gallery with us, along

         5       with his wife Vivian.  Congratulations.  Good

         6       luck.

         7                      (Applause)

         8                      Senator Tully.

         9                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      I regret that I was outside the

        12       chamber at the time the nomination of Judge

        13       Burton Joseph came before us and he was

        14       confirmed.  Had I been in the chamber, I would

        15       have indicated something along the lines of what

        16       I indicated at the meeting of the Judiciary

        17       Committee today, and that's that I've known

        18       Judge Joseph for over 30 years and tried cases

        19       against him over 30 years ago and Senator Lack

        20       asked at the Judiciary Committee meeting who won

        21       when we tried those cases, and I guess we both

        22       won because we each learned a little something

        23       from each other, but I learned one thing, that

        24       Burt Joseph is a gentleman.  He's a fine

        25       attorney.  He's extremely well qualified, and I







                                                             
1996

         1       think the citizens of the Tenth Judicial

         2       District will be well served and I wish those

         3       remarks to go on the record.

         4                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

         6       you, Senator Tully.

         7                      Motions and resolutions.

         8                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         9       Larkin.

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

        11       wish to call my bill, Print Number 2309,

        12       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the

        13       desk.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        17       Larkin, Senate Print 2309, an act to amend the

        18       General Municipal Law.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Larkin.

        21                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I now move to

        22       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        23       passed.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       motion is to reconsider the vote by which the







                                                             
1997

         1       bill passed the house.

         2                      The Secretary will call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         5       reconsideration.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Larkin.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

        10       now offer the following amendments.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       amendments are received and adopted.

        13                      Senator Holland.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        15       on behalf of Senator Johnson, please place a

        16       sponsor's star on Calendar Number 307.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        18       Number 207 is starred at the request of the

        19       sponsor.

        20                      Senator Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        22       for Senator Goodman, on page 9, I offer the

        23       following amendments to Calendar Number 164,

        24       Senate Print Number 423, and ask that the said

        25       bill retain its place on the Third Reading







                                                             
1998

         1       Calendar.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       amendments to Calendar Number 164 are received

         4       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         5       the Third Reading Calendar.

         6                      Senator Holland.

         7                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  On behalf of

         8       Senator Lack, on page 12, I offer the follow

         9       amendments to Calendar Number 259, Senate Print

        10       Number 2918, and ask that the said bill retain

        11       its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       amendments to Calendar Number 259 are received

        14       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        15       the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                      Senator Holland.

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  On behalf of

        18       Senator Lack again, on page 12, I after the

        19       following amendments to Calendar Number 260,

        20       Senate Print Number 2997, and I ask that the

        21       said bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        22       Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

        25       will retain its place on the Third Reading







                                                             
1999

         1       Calendar.

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  On behalf of

         4       Senator Present, on page 16, I offer the

         5       following amendments to Calendar Number 322,

         6       Senate Print Number 749, and I ask that the said

         7       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

         8       Calendar.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       amendments to Calendar Number 322 are received

        11       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        12       the Third Reading Calendar.

        13                      Senator Holland.

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Finally, on

        15       behalf of Senator Skelos, on page 19, I offer

        16       the following amendments to Calendar Number 354,

        17       Senate Print Number 2484, and ask that the said

        18       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        19       Calendar.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       amendments to Calendar Number 354 are received

        22       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        23       the Third Reading Calendar.

        24                      Senator Skelos.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,







                                                             
2000

         1       at this time may we please adopt the Resolution

         2       Calendar in its entirety.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       motion is to accept the Resolution Calendar

         5       which is on the desks of all of the members.

         6       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      The Resolution Calendar is

        11       adopted.

        12                      Senator Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        14       Resolution J-00729, by Senator Bruno, he wishes

        15       to make that available for co-sponsorship to any

        16       member who so indicates to the desk.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are there

        18       several members who would like to be on Calendar

        19       -- Resolution Number 729?

        20                      Senator Skelos, shall we put

        21       everybody on it, reverse the process and keep

        22       those -

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I think it would

        24       be if the person wants to go on -- the Senator

        25       wishes to sponsor the resolution, they should







                                                             
2001

         1       indicate to the desk.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.

         3       Members will indicate to the desk that they want

         4       to be on.

         5                      Senator Skelos, that brings us to

         6       the reading of the calendar.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.  Could we

         8       have the reading of the non-controversial

         9       calendar.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the non-controversial

        12       calendar.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an

        15       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

        16       crime of false personation.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority

        20       Leader.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A,

        23       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        24       relation to authorizing infrastructure exemption

        25       in certain instances.







                                                             
2002

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority

         4       Leader.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       114, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 98, an act

         7       to amend the Domestic Relations Law and the

         8       Family Court Act, in relation to the granting of

         9       custody of a minor.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       119, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 817, an act

        22       to amend the Family Court Act, in relation to

        23       extensions of child placement.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read the last section.







                                                             
2003

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       120, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1483, an act

        11       to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to

        12       requiring an investigation of all reports of

        13       child abuse.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       254, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly







                                                             
2004

         1       Print 1836, an act establishing the chronic care

         2       management demonstration program.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       257, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2581-A, an

        15       act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation

        16       to designation of Secretary of State.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay it aside for

        18       the day.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside for the day.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       288, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1918, an

        23       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        24       increasing the penalties for repeat convictions.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
2005

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the first day of

         4       November.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       304, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2577, an

        13       act to ratify, legalize and validate certain

        14       acts and proceedings of the Board of Education

        15       of the Little Falls City School District.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        17       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
2006

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an

         4       act to amend the Social Services Law and the

         5       Education Law, in relation to protection of

         6       pupils.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         9       bill aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,

        12       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        13       relation to the transportation of certain

        14       persons.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay it aside for

        16       the day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside for the day.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       330, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1440, an

        21       act to amend the Election Law, in relation to

        22       political committees.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read the last section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This







                                                             
2007

         1       act shall take effect on the first day of

         2       January.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an

        11       act to amend the Election Law, in relation to

        12       cancellation of registration.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an

        22       act to amend the Election Law and the State

        23       Finance Law, in relation to requiring

        24       proposition authorizing the creation of a state

        25       debt.







                                                             
2008

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       350, by member of the Assembly Schimminger,

         6       Assembly Print 1666, an act to amend the Local

         7       Finance Law, in relation to the sale of bonds

         8       and notes for the city of Buffalo.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        10       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       351, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1295, an

        22       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        23       relation to creating the town of Southampton

        24       Industrial Development Agency.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a







                                                             
2009

         1       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         2       will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         9       the results when tabulated.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 1,

        11       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       352, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1379, an

        16       act to amend the Town Law, in relation to the

        17       exclusion of the Pyramid Mall water district.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a

        19       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                             
2010

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       355, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2485, an

         6       act authorizing the assessor of the county of

         7       Nassau to accept an application.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 1,

        16       Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      Senator Skelos, that completes

        20       the reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  May we have the

        22       controversial reading of the calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read the controversial calendar,

        25       beginning on page 6, Calendar Number 12, by







                                                             
2011

         1       Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B.

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

         3       it seems like this is -

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Volker, can we read the bill and get the title

         6       -- get the bill before the house before we get

         7       into a debate on it.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an

        11       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to crime

        12       of false personation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Volker, an explanation has been asked for by

        15       Senator Montgomery.

        16                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        17       this is a bill that is designed to plug a hole

        18       in the law that has come up over a series of

        19       time.  The bill came from some law enforcement

        20       organizations in New York City and Long Island.

        21                      The issue involves the fact that

        22       there has been developed what is known as a hole

        23       in the law of criminal impersonation.  It is a

        24       crime right now and it's a misdemeanor to

        25       impersonate a police officer or impersonate a







                                                             
2012

         1       public official, whatever, and it's punishable

         2       by -- as a Class A misdemeanor in certain cases

         3       and can be even more severe, but what has

         4       happened is that, where a person provides false

         5       information and false -- and falsely gives a

         6       false name or whatever, there is no -- there is

         7       no crime for that, even though if that person

         8       impersonated a police officer or a person -- a

         9       public official, it would be a crime.

        10                      What this bill says is that that

        11       could be a crime known as criminal personation

        12       and because of the fact that they are seeking to

        13       deceive law enforcement officers.  Some people

        14       have said, Well, you don't have to make a

        15       response and, therefore, this is wrong.  The

        16       problem is that's true.  You don't have to make

        17       a response, but when you lie and give someone

        18       else's name and use someone else's name or give

        19       false information, when you think about it, in a

        20       -- in connection with a criminal investigation,

        21       there should be some way to penalize these

        22       people, and that's where the bill comes from.

        23       It is called a crime of personation -- false

        24       personation, which is a misdemeanor.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2013

         1       Montgomery.

         2                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  I would ask if the sponsor would

         4       yield to a question.

         5                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Sure.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       sponsor yields.

         8                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Senator

         9       Volker, my records show that we voted on this

        10       and my recollection is that we voted on this

        11       before.  Is there anything different?  Did you

        12       do anything different with this bill?

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Not basically

        14       different.  It -- the -- it's, I believe,

        15       basically the same bill as last year, which I do

        16       believe that you voted against.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Montgomery.

        19                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

        20       President, I just want to remind my colleagues

        21       that there were three votes in opposition to

        22       this legislation.  I believe the issue certainly

        23       that I raised when I debated the last time and

        24       my sentiments remain that the bill, while it

        25       certainly is well intended and I think it does







                                                             
2014

         1       carry the language here that it says "after

         2       being informed of the consequences of such act",

         3       but despite that safeguard in the bill, the

         4       probability that some people, especially young

         5       people, might be particularly prone to being

         6       affected by this legislation without really

         7       understanding the full consequence of having a

         8       Class A misdemeanor on their record, I'm going

         9       to vote against this legislation again.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        11       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Hearing none, the Secretary will

        14       read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the first day of

        17       January.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        22       the results when tabulated.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        24       the negative on Calendar Number 12, Senator

        25       Leichter and Montgomery.  Ayes 52, nays 2.







                                                             
2015

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      The Secretary will continue to

         4       read the controversial calendar.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A,

         7       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

         8       relation to authorizing an infrastructure

         9       exemption in certain instances.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number

        13       61 has been requested by the Acting Minority

        14       Leader, Senator Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  This

        16       was a bill that passed 58 to zero last year and

        17       it's a bill that did not go through the

        18       Assembly.  This year they wanted me to eliminate

        19       the legislative intent which basically didn't

        20       add much and Assemblyman Schimminger indicated

        21       that he thought then he could move the bill this

        22       year, but basically it's a bill that would give

        23       the localities an option to exempt

        24       infrastructure improvements by a residential

        25       home builder until such time as a certificate of







                                                             
2016

         1       occupancy is granted by the town or the village

         2       in order to occupy the premises and it applies

         3       to -- it gives the local option to all cities

         4       other than cities over a million in the state of

         5       New York, namely New York City.

         6                      It's a local option, but the

         7       reason for it is there's a very difficult new

         8       home market in the Central New York area, and

         9       I'm sure in other areas of the state, that there

        10       are builders who have made these improvements to

        11       the property and are holding these lots and

        12       holding the homes that are partially built

        13       without certificate of occupancies and paying

        14       taxes for improvements which ultimately will be

        15       dedicated to the village or the town anyway once

        16       this house is actually occupied.

        17                      So it provides an exemption just

        18       as if an individual was holding another type of

        19       product and wouldn't have to pay sales tax until

        20       they actually sold the product.  This happens to

        21       be a product which has not been sold yet and

        22       we're trying to give the home builders a break

        23       in view of the depressed market in Central New

        24       York and other areas of the state.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2017

         1       Paterson.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         3       if Senator DeFrancisco would yield to a

         4       question.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Paterson?

         7                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senator yields.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I

        11       recognize in this legislation that it creates an

        12       option for the local governments and so,

        13       therefore, that would be a decision that the

        14       local government would make but why, in your

        15       opinion, would the local government allow for a

        16       tax shift from the developer to other entities

        17       in a situation where even after the development

        18       is completed, there are going to be certain

        19       maintenances in which the local government is

        20       going to have to pay sewage removal, different

        21       types of public services to the entity that's

        22       constructed and so what would be the reason to

        23       create almost a zoning bonus and allow for the

        24       developer not to have to pay any taxes when

        25       probably other citizens in the -- in the area







                                                             
2018

         1       that's covered by the local government are going

         2       to have to pick up those costs?

         3                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  It's the

         4       same as any other local option for an exemption,

         5       whether it be a senior citizen exemption, a

         6       veteran's exemption or an exemption for any

         7       other reason that a government may have a local

         8       option on and it's a question of whether some of

         9       these businesses are going to be able to

        10       continue doing business in view of the depressed

        11       home building market.

        12                      Some towns may think this is a

        13       good idea.  They may feel that it's -- in the

        14       long term, it's better to give a little at this

        15       point so that these builders can sell these

        16       homes in the long term and give this break

        17       because ultimately there's going to be a much

        18       more substantial amount of taxes that are going

        19       to be collected from an occupied home and to

        20       encourage builders to continue making the

        21       improvements in the situation where they're not

        22       selling houses right now.

        23                      If these don't -- if something

        24       like this didn't happen, a locality may say,

        25       well -- a builder may say to the locality, we're







                                                             
2019

         1       not going to make the improvements that are

         2       ultimately going to be yours.  We're going to

         3       wait until such time as we actually have

         4       everything sold and the municipality may say,

         5       let's get the improvements done and when the

         6       house is sold, we'll take over the improvements

         7       and we'll raise the taxes at that time as an

         8       occupied premise.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his

        13       response.

        14                      On the bill, Mr. President, I was

        15       impressed by Senator DeFrancisco's assertion

        16       that with the market as it stands right now,

        17       this probably would be a good stimulant, but I

        18       would like to point out that the New York

        19       Conference of Mayors and the School Boards

        20       Association oppose it.

        21                      In some respects, we have to look

        22       at whether or not the market really can -- will

        23       really afford this kind of expansion when we

        24       think about the fact that this will certainly

        25       create opportunities for developers, where had







                                                             
2020

         1       they been taxed, they might not be as frugal in

         2       their attempt to develop, we certainly can

         3       understand the need at any point, whether it's

         4       senior citizen prescription discounts or whether

         5       it's legislation designed to energize

         6       development in a particular area, that we as a

         7       government would want to be of assistance, but

         8       the question is whether or not the expansion of

         9       the market, in this case, would actually be what

        10       would be the most suggested thing to do in these

        11       situations.

        12                      It's really a very close call.

        13       The bill has a great deal of merit, but I wanted

        14       to raise those concerns.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        16       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Hearing none, the Secretary will

        19       read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 1,







                                                             
2021

         1       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an

         6       act to amend the Social Service Law and the

         7       Education Law.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 308

        11       has been requested by Senator Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      Mr. President, this bill would

        15       create statutorily a means for the reporting and

        16       investigation of allegations of child abuse or

        17       child sexual abuse in a school setting.

        18                      Currently, the law is totally

        19       void of any procedure or standardized process to

        20       deal with this issue.  Certainly there have been

        21       enough reports from various areas of the state

        22       of these situations occurring in school settings

        23       with no coordinated response.

        24                      Now, we place our children in

        25       school settings with the understanding that







                                                             
2022

         1       there is an element of security and trust

         2       associated with being in those settings and my

         3       assumption is that that is why, when this bill

         4       was considered last year, it passed 59 to

         5       nothing.

         6                      What we do here is create that

         7       mechanism, requires school personnel, school

         8       building superintendents to respond to these

         9       allegations, to make sure that they're handled

        10       appropriately and turned over to law enforcement

        11       for investigation and what it does particularly

        12       is to make void as against public policy the

        13       idea of the so-called silent resignation.  And

        14       what is a silent resignation?

        15                      What that is is, when there is an

        16       incident that occurs involving abuse or sexual

        17       abuse, the offending person is permitted to

        18       resign in lieu of any procedure being brought,

        19       whether it's civil or criminal, and that person

        20       can then go on to another jurisdiction where he

        21       or she may commit the very same acts that led to

        22       the resignation in the first place.  No

        23       consequences, no follow up, no trail.

        24                      This bill is an effort to deal

        25       with that problem.  This bill is one of the







                                                             
2023

         1       focuses of the Children and Families committee

         2       this year and this bill is a bill which affords

         3       protection to our children and I would assume

         4       would be embraced by everybody in the process

         5       for basically endeavoring to keep the

         6       educational institutions, places, as I said

         7       earlier, that are intended to be safe and

         8       protective of our children and not places where

         9       they can be abused with little or no consequence

        10       or little or no ability for any kind of

        11       effective response.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Mr. President.

        16                      If Senator Saland would yield for

        17       a question.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator

        20       Paterson?

        21                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Senator yields.

        25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I was







                                                             
2024

         1       especially impressed in 1996 with your remarks

         2       concerning the statewide legislation that we

         3       passed concerning domestic violence and some of

         4       your admonitions to this body about the false

         5       accusations and often -- and I think it was you

         6       that pointed it out -- the fact that the

         7       accusation of child abuse is made almost

         8       regularly in custody battles and so, therefore,

         9       I would pretty much assume that in offering this

        10       piece of legislation, that your concerns were

        11       extended such that you would have some idea of

        12       how to protect an individual who is just simply

        13       accused and then goes on hopefully for a career

        14       in education and is not an abuser of children or

        15       an abuser of anyone but simply because of some

        16       litigation, had the charge made against him to

        17       enhance the opponent -- the opponent's

        18       bargaining position during some sort of civil

        19       action.

        20                      I was wondering if you would

        21       share with us how you feel a person who would be

        22       falsely accused in this way would still be

        23       protected while at the same time you accomplish

        24       the goal that you just stated that's in your

        25       legislation?







                                                             
2025

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  Let me see -

         2       I'm glad that you asked that question and let me

         3       see if I can respond to your satisfaction, and I

         4       think the genesis of your question may well come

         5       from the NYSUT memo in opposition, and I think

         6       there are two weaknesses in the underlying

         7       premises for the NYSUT memo.

         8                      In the first instance, they refer

         9       to the Prealta case.  Now, the Prealta case, as

        10       you're aware, basically says that where you have

        11       an employer request, the fact that the standard

        12       of mere credible evidence is what is used for

        13       the reports that are submitted to the registry

        14       and where the basis of whether they were founded

        15       or unfounded is not good enough and the court

        16       said in that particular case that the standard

        17       has to be a preponderance of the evidence.

        18                      This does not change that because

        19       what happens -- what would happen in this

        20       situation would be, were there, in fact, an

        21       employer request, a request by a school district

        22       to access the central registry as is provided

        23       under this bill, where there would be a hit, the

        24       registry would be required to provide the

        25       respondent the opportunity for an expungement







                                                             
2026

         1       hearing.  The burden of proof would be on DSS to

         2       show by a preponderance of the evidence that the

         3       allegations in question were correct or true by

         4       a preponderance of the evidence.  So the

         5       position raised by NYSUT is absolutely abjectly

         6       erroneous and incorrect if the implication was

         7       that somehow there was no protection there.

         8                      Secondly, the question of

         9       unfounded reports, something we should -- as you

        10       know, I had great concern about when we dealt

        11       with the issue of Elisa, there would not be the

        12       bill under this proposal to access those

        13       fundamental reports.  Only CPS workers under the

        14       definitions provided under Elisa's Law can

        15       access those reports, that an employer pursuant

        16       to a screen seeks to access those reports, it's

        17       just not doable.  There cannot be employer

        18       access or a response to an employer inquiry to

        19       access those reports.

        20                      So I think, while the concerns

        21       perhaps were legitimate, I think that had they

        22       reflected a little longer and dug a little

        23       deeper, they would have realized that there

        24       really was no, in fact, foundation for them.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2027

         1       Paterson, is that sufficient?

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         5       recognizes Senator Waldon.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         7       much, Mr. President.

         8                      Would the gentleman yield to a

         9       question?

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Senator yields, Senator Waldon.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Mr. President.

        16                      Senator Saland, I was trying to

        17       carefully listen to what you were saying in

        18       response to Senator Paterson's inquiries, but I

        19       did not recall your saying anything in regard to

        20       the silent resignations.  Was that accurate

        21       because I was distracted for a moment?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Could I ask you

        23       to speak up, Senator Waldon.

        24                      SENATOR WALDON:  I apologize.

        25       Did you make any statements in regard to silent







                                                             
2028

         1       resignations when you responded to the inquiry

         2       of Senator Paterson?

         3                      SENATOR SALAND:  No, I didn't

         4       think that the focus of his questions dealt with

         5       that issue.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Okay.  I

         7       apologize for not hearing the thrust of his

         8       question fully.  My concern of the moment is, is

         9       there any data regarding these silent

        10       resignations?  Is there a number that you know

        11       of or does anyone know of?

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  The information

        13       is anecdotal at this point, but in all candor,

        14       were there merely one of them, it would trouble

        15       me vitally and the anecdotal information would

        16       indicate that there's been more than one

        17       instance in which this has occurred.

        18                      I certainly would not want to, in

        19       effect, continue a practice that puts young

        20       people at risk, keeping in mind that we've told

        21       our children that there are certain authority

        22       figures whom they're supposed to respond to,

        23       respect and effectively obey and if somebody in

        24       that position of trust, be it a teacher or a

        25       school administrator, takes advantage of that







                                                             
2029

         1       position of trust to cause abuse or violence to

         2       a child, the resolution should not be a silent

         3       resignation.  There should be the full impact of

         4       the law brought to bear on that person.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may

         6       continue, Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Saland, do you continue to yield?

         9                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Senator continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator Saland,

        14       I don't think that I nor any of our colleagues

        15       would disagree with you in regard to, in fact,

        16       anecdotal studies which evidence that people

        17       have been using their positions of authority to

        18       abuse our children.  My concern is are there

        19       really enough cases to warrant this action?

        20       Now, what you said was very commendable, that if

        21       there's one -- but one -- we should do something

        22       about that -- and I would agree with that, but I

        23       wanted to know, was there any real evidence?

        24                      I have one other concern, if I

        25       may continue, and this is a question.  Once -







                                                             
2030

         1       I'm sorry.

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  There have been

         3       media accounts here in New York State of the

         4       occurrence of this type of an event.

         5                      SENATOR WALDON:  May I continue,

         6       Mr. President?  Would the gentleman continue to

         7       yield?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Senator continues to yield.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Mr. President.

        16                      Senator Saland, do you have any

        17       information -- never mind.  I'll withdraw the

        18       question.

        19                      Thank you very much, Senator

        20       Saland.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        22       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        23                      Senator Montgomery wishes to

        24       speak.

        25                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.







                                                             
2031

         1       President.  I would like to ask if Senator

         2       Saland would yield to a question of

         3       clarification.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator

         6       Montgomery?

         7                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senator yields.

        11                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Senator

        12       Saland, the legislation seems to allow for a

        13       telephone call and/or a child's accusation to

        14       trigger the process of reporting a case of child

        15       abuse or mistreatment -- maltreatment.

        16                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm sorry,

        17       Senator.  You said something about a telephone

        18       call.

        19                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  A telephone

        20       call and/or a child's reporting to someone in

        21       the school that someone else has maltreated or

        22       abused that child.  I'm just looking at the

        23       first page, line 15.

        24                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm sorry, Mr.

        25       President.  Is there a question that's been







                                                             
2032

         1       posed for me?

         2                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  My question

         3       is does the legislation as it appears based on

         4       what I read here, is this process triggered by a

         5       simple telephone call from a parent or a person

         6       and/or a child's reporting to someone in that

         7       school?

         8                      SENATOR SALAND:  The section to

         9       which you refer is the section of the Social

        10       Services Law that deals with the workings of the

        11       central registry and if you read that section,

        12       it basically talks about the receipt of a

        13       telephone call and how the central registry

        14       shall respond and what we've merely done here at

        15       the conclusion of that paragraph is add language

        16       to this already existing provision that says,

        17       where you receive such a call -- where such call

        18       is received by the central registry, the

        19       department will notify the superintendent of

        20       schools in which that child attends.

        21                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Based on the

        22       telephone call to the registry by the -- by

        23       someone or a child in the school that something

        24       has occurred in the school?  You're adding the

        25       educational setting to that.







                                                             
2033

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, and there

         2       is also a process that you may well be familiar

         3       with in which a number of these things are

         4       handled at a local level in which there are, as

         5       you know, investigations.  A number of these

         6       situations are ones in which the calls are

         7       received and in which no action is taken because

         8       there's a question as to whether or not, in

         9       fact, there is the requisite activities or

        10       illegal acts that require the department to

        11       respond.

        12                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Okay.  Now,

        13       Senator, if you will continue to yield, I just

        14       want to -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Senator continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  The bill has

        22       a number of people who are notified immediately

        23       upon a -- upon a report of child abuse by a

        24       person in the school setting, i.e. the

        25       superintendent, the district attorney, the







                                                             
2034

         1       police chief, the sheriff or whomever, the Board

         2       of Ed' and the child's parent and whomever else

         3       and, at the same time, the person who is being

         4       accused.

         5                      My question to you is -- and then

         6       in -- at somewhere in here there's language that

         7       says any breach of confidentiality is a Class A

         8       misdemeanor for the person who is assumed, I

         9       suppose, i.e. the superintendent, the principal

        10       or wherever that breach takes place but, in

        11       fact, there are a number of ways in which that

        12       confidentiality can be breached, is it not,

        13       based on this process, and I guess my question

        14       is how do we protect a principal or a

        15       superintendent or someone else from being

        16       charged with a Class A misdemeanor for a breach

        17       of confidentiality over which they have no

        18       control, actually?

        19                      SENATOR SALAND:  Well, the

        20       building principal or building superintendent,

        21       once they have done what's required of them in

        22       this bill, whether it's to notify the parent, to

        23       notify the school superintendent, whether it's

        24       to notify the district attorney, they have done

        25       what is required of them.  Were they, in fact,







                                                             
2035

         1       to notify some person who is not provided for in

         2       this particular proposal, then they would have

         3       breached confidentiality.  The law is clear as

         4       to whom should be notified and if, in fact, one

         5       of those entities then goes further, that is not

         6       obviously something that was done by or was

         7       intended to be done by a school principal or

         8       whomever might have lodged the report on behalf

         9       of the school district.

        10                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  All right.

        11       I guess -- last question, Mr. -- last question,

        12       if you would yield, Senator Saland.

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator continues to yield.

        17                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  You

        18       mentioned the expungement hearings and how they

        19       work, and my question to you in relationship to

        20       the central registry, do we have any idea how

        21       many cases have actually been expunged that were

        22       unfounded in the registry?

        23                      SENATOR SALAND:  Well, as you

        24       know, there -- I couldn't quantify the number of

        25       cases in the central registry that were







                                                             
2036

         1       previously expunged but with the change that

         2       occurred in the law when we did Elisa's Law,

         3       expungement at this point in New York State's

         4       life, so to speak, is something that's

         5       historical.  There is not a procedure for that.

         6                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  All right.

         7       Thank you, Senator Saland.

         8                      Mr. President, briefly on the

         9       bill.  I think there are a lot of -- there's a

        10       lot of merit in the intent of this legislation.

        11       Certainly we want to protect children and we

        12       want to, as quickly as possible, remove from any

        13       school setting a person who is abusing children,

        14       but I think the bill here leaves an opening for

        15       a number of glitches along the way that could,

        16       in fact, essentially destroy a person's career

        17       in the area of whatever they're doing in the

        18       school and if they're a school psychologist or a

        19       teacher or whoever may be involved in such an

        20       accusation and certainly if we are using the

        21       central registry at all and if anyone's name is,

        22       for whatever reason, inadvertently or not,

        23       placed in that registry, as Senator Saland

        24       admits and as our law now states, they will

        25       basically -- could be in there for at least a







                                                             
2037

         1       good portion of what would be their career

         2       life.

         3                      So I think the bill, as it is

         4       written, without some specific safeguards to

         5       protect people from becoming -- being one

         6       accused of a crime of confidentiality, a

         7       breaching of confidentiality, from the level of

         8       the school right on down to the parent or from

         9       having people who may have a very good and

        10       legitimate argument or who may have absolutely

        11       mistakenly been accused but nonetheless being

        12       thrown into a process where they could have

        13       their careers damaged for life, I would

        14       certainly urge a vote in the negative on this

        15       legislation and I would hope that Senator Saland

        16       could, in fact, figure out ways in which we

        17       could tighten this up so that we don't do the

        18       unintended and, Mr. President, I have been to

        19       expungement hearings when we were supposedly

        20       able to do them and I can tell you in no

        21       uncertain terms, those expungement hearings do

        22       not result -- or did not result even when it was

        23       possible they did not result in expungement and

        24       very often people are in the registry and they

        25       don't even know that they're in there.







                                                             
2038

         1                      So I think there is a very good

         2       and legitimate reason why NYSUT opposes this

         3       legislation, and I'm going to vote in the

         4       negative in support of that as well as other

         5       issues, as I have raised.

         6                      Thank you.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         8       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

         9                      Senator Leichter.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        11       Saland would yield.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Saland, do you yield to Senator Leichter?

        14                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I think the

        19       nature of the bill has somewhat been clarified

        20       for me, but I'm not quite sure about some

        21       aspects of it.  I thank you and Senator

        22       Montgomery for your discussion, and also Senator

        23       Paterson.

        24                      I don't think anybody is raising

        25       any issue or question of where there was a







                                                             
2039

         1       conviction of an employee of a school system and

         2       certainly that information should be known to a

         3       prospective employing school district.

         4                      I think the concern is where

         5       there was an allegation of child abuse that's

         6       been reported and is now in the central registry

         7       -- and I want to focus on that -- and my

         8       question is that records of alleged child abuse

         9       in the registry that did not result in any

        10       criminal action that are part of the record of

        11       the registry will be made available to a

        12       prospective employer, is that correct?

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  Let me see if I

        14       understand your question.  Are you saying where

        15       there has not been -- what you will find in the

        16       central registry are Article X cases which are

        17       basically family offense/household type of

        18       cases.  You are asking me, I believe, where

        19       there is an unfounded abuse allegation; is that

        20       the thrust of your question?

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, where

        22       there is -- an allegation is made that's in the

        23       central registry where no criminal action was

        24       taken.  It was never referred to the D.A. or the

        25       D.A. didn't take any action on it.  Now, there







                                                             
2040

         1       could be a record of that allegation in the

         2       central registry.  Would that record be made

         3       available to a prospective employing school

         4       district?

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  There are two

         6       parallel tracks here.  One is fingerprinting

         7       which goes to criminal records, and I believe

         8       that's currently the practice in the city of New

         9       York.  When you become a school employee, you

        10       are fingerprinted.  School bus drivers are

        11       fingerprinted.  That deals with the criminal

        12       side of the equation.

        13                      Where there has been a central

        14       registry complaint or allegation and where it is

        15       founded, there would be what I've termed a hit;

        16       where it is unfounded, you would not have the

        17       ability to access that information under this

        18       bill because the allegation has to do with

        19       something that occurred in a school setting and

        20       not the traditional child abuse or child neglect

        21       situation that you will find deposited or

        22       reposited in the central registry.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, what

        24       happens in the instance where there was an

        25       allegation of abuse in a school setting that's







                                                             
2041

         1       sent to the central register and, as you and I

         2       know, the central register is often months

         3       behind, thousands of cases where no finding has

         4       been made either one way or the other.  What

         5       happens under your bill?  Now there's a

         6       requirement.  I want to find out about Steve

         7       Saland.  He's applied for a job in my school

         8       district.  There's this allegation on the record

         9       that's neither been founded or not founded nor

        10       indicated.  It's not been acted upon.

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  Understand that

        12       this is not the only way these complaints come

        13       into the system.  You're describing one way in

        14       which a complaint could come into this system

        15       and what this bill case says is if somebody

        16       contacts the central registry to report an abuse

        17       situation, the central registry shall

        18       communicate with the local school district by

        19       notifying the superintendent of schools and then

        20       this procedure begins where the superintendent

        21       would notify the parents, would notify the

        22       district attorney and there would be an

        23       appropriate law enforcement investigation.

        24                      Again, if there was an unfounded

        25       report, we no longer get involved with issues of







                                                             
2042

         1       expungement per se in the registry.  You are -

         2       you would, however, where it is an employer

         3       request as distinguished from a CPS request,

         4       under the case which I referred to earlier, you

         5       would have the ability and you would have to be

         6       notified of that ability in the name of due

         7       process to have an expungement hearing.  It's an

         8       employer search, in this case, by the school

         9       district.  It's not a search by some social

        10       service agency or some law enforcement agency.

        11       I don't want to confuse apples and oranges

        12       here.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        14       Saland would continue to yield.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Senator continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, for

        22       my clarification, let's take this case.  A child

        23       comes homes and says, "My teacher, Steve Saland,

        24       hit me today." .  The mother is very upset.  The

        25       next day goes to the principal and says, "My son







                                                             
2043

         1       claims he was hit by this teacher", and so on.

         2       I assume that's a complaint as to which all of

         3       the forms that are provided for in your bill

         4       need to be made.

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  You have to look

         6       at the definition of what constitutes child

         7       abuse, and if you look at -- on page 2,

         8       beginning at line 37, it defines -- and child

         9       abuse means "physical injury to a child caused

        10       by other than accidental means or creating

        11       substantial risk of death or serious or

        12       protracted disfigurement to a child or

        13       protracted impairment of physical health or

        14       protracted loss or impairment to the function of

        15       any bodily organ of a child or any child's

        16       sexual abuse."  So the mere fact that a teacher

        17       might be accused, whether it be Steve Saland or

        18       somebody else who would be the teacher of having

        19       slapped a child, there would be definitional

        20       questions here as to whether or not that

        21       constitutes child abuse.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Hitting

        23       somebody creates a physical injury.  I was

        24       slapped by my teacher, Steve Saland.  That's a

        25       physical injury, isn't it?







                                                             
2044

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm not quite

         2       sure that each and every contact with another

         3       person's body results in a physical injury.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, I see

         5       Senator Marcellino and he was a teacher and

         6       maybe he was engaged in -- or saw these things

         7       happening, so -- or maybe he just doesn't think

         8       he can hit hard enough, but I would imagine a

         9       physical injury, as you define it -- I mean, you

        10       define physical injury to a child caused by

        11       other than accidental means.  Then you go on and

        12       you have other definitions like leaving a mark

        13       or protracted impairment, and so on, but as I

        14       read this, striking somebody is a physical

        15       injury.  I've never heard striking somebody not

        16       being a physical injury.  As you and I know,

        17       under the law of assault, you know, whether

        18       you're hit by Sonny Liston or whether you're hit

        19       by Franz Leichter is some difference but it's a

        20       physical injury.

        21                      SENATOR SALAND:  I would beg to

        22       differ with you.  What you're saying is that any

        23       time there's bodily contact between two people,

        24       that that ipso facto constitutes physical

        25       injury, and I think that certainly is a







                                                             
2045

         1       stretch.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, Senator,

         3       with all due respect -

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leichter, are you asking Senator Saland to yield

         6       to a question?

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Senator,

         8       with all due respect -

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Leichter, excuse me.  Are you asking Senator

        11       Saland to yield to a question?

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I am, indeed.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.

        14       Senator Saland, do you yield to a question?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, with

        20       all due respect, if I might point out, I would

        21       certainly tighten up the definitions because I

        22       think that any school principal, school official

        23       would really be at risk, considering that you

        24       provide penalties -- criminal penalties if you

        25       fail to file a report.  If he comes and says,







                                                             
2046

         1       Well, he just slapped a kid, I don't think it's

         2       a physical injury.  It really is not clear at

         3       all, and I think that's -- with all due respect,

         4       I think that's a definitional flaw, but if I

         5       could just proceed and continue.

         6                      Suppose it's -- she brings the

         7       child in and there's a bruise.  Would you agree

         8       that that's a physical injury?

         9                      SENATOR SALAND:  I would say that

        10       certainly would appear to be a physical injury.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.  And

        12       whereupon a report is written up, is that

        13       right?

        14                      SENATOR SALAND:  Correct.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And I assume

        16       the principal calls in the teacher, Steve

        17       Saland, and says, "Did you hit this kid", and he

        18       says, "Absolutely not.  He was in a fight with

        19       another kid and I didn't do it", but as I read

        20       the bill, the principal is still required to

        21       file a report, is he not?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Correct.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And does that

        24       the report not get sent to the central

        25       registry?







                                                             
2047

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  That report -

         2       that report, I believe, winds up being submitted

         3       to the district attorney.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

         5       Saland, if you would be so good as to continue

         6       to yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Saland, do you continue to yield?

         9                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Senator continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I understand

        14       it goes to the district attorney but doesn't it

        15       also get sent to the central registry, or are

        16       you saying that it does not get sent to the

        17       central registry if the district attorney takes

        18       no action on it, because my understanding is it

        19       must be sent to the central registry.

        20                      SENATOR SALAND:  There's

        21       notification to the district attorney.  The

        22       central registry, again at the beginning of the

        23       bill, is a -- is a means by which -- a report

        24       which they have received becomes an object for

        25       investigation.  The central registry is searched







                                                             
2048

         1       as part of a screening process to determine if,

         2       in fact, somebody has a -- has previously

         3       engaged in conduct for which a founded report

         4       was made.  Once the report of child abuse or

         5       child sexual abuse is made, the people who are

         6       in the loop are people whom are school

         7       authorities, parents and the district attorney.

         8                      The state Department of Education

         9       gets into this loop where, in fact, there is a

        10       conviction because then there is a notation on a

        11       teacher's certificate of a conviction.  If, in

        12       fact, there is an appeal or a dismissal, that

        13       notation is expunged.  That notation is

        14       available to nobody but a party who is a

        15       prospective employer of that person.  It is not

        16       available to the general public.  It is not

        17       available to anybody else.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        19       understand what you're -- what you're trying to

        20       do, and I have no problem if all we're dealing

        21       with is an instance where there has, indeed,

        22       been a conviction, but I'm not sure that you

        23       achieve that because I -- as I read this bill, I

        24       think that the report has to be sent to the

        25       central register, and I refer you to -- let me







                                                             
2049

         1       just see.  I had it here a moment ago.  It's on

         2       page 4 where -- line 12, that the report of

         3       abuse in our example where teacher Steve Saland

         4       has allegedly slapped a kid.  There's a bruise.

         5       The teacher says "I didn't do it.  He was a

         6       fight" because you said, if you look at line 12,

         7       "forward such a report to appropriate law

         8       enforcement authorities."  You don't just say to

         9       the district attorney.  I read that to mean that

        10       you've got to send this to the central

        11       registry.

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  The central

        13       registry is not a law enforcement authority.

        14       The central registry is a repository for

        15       complaints which are ultimately, in some

        16       instances, referred to law enforcement

        17       authorities.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But, Senator

        19       -- again, if you would yield.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Senator continues to yield.







                                                             
2050

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You're right.

         2       I think that one can certainly say that the

         3       central registry is not a law enforcement body

         4       as such but you're giving them certain functions

         5       and duties in relation to keeping records so

         6       that it would be so easy, frankly, to clarify

         7       this -- and I think both Senator Montgomery and

         8       Senator Paterson had the same concern and maybe

         9       the NYSUT would not have an objection if it was

        10       clear that the only allegations or the only

        11       record that is kept by the central registry is

        12       if there has been, in fact, a conviction.  I

        13       think at that point -

        14                      SENATOR SALAND:  Excuse me.  I'm

        15       sorry.  Let me let you continue and I'll

        16       respond.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, please go

        18       ahead.

        19                      SENATOR SALAND:  Where the

        20       conviction occurs, the repository for that

        21       information is not the central registry.  It's

        22       the state Education Department and there would

        23       be a notation that would go with the teacher's

        24       certification, again confidential, available

        25       only to someone who's doing an employment search







                                                             
2051

         1       with respect to that particular person.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Again, if you

         3       would continue to yield -- and I appreciate your

         4       answer, but that -- that, again puts the focus

         5       on the central registry.  Then what does the

         6       central registry do?  If our intent is to get

         7       instances of convictions, that, you say, is

         8       going to be kept -- that information is going to

         9       be kept by the Board of Education -- I don't

        10       mean by the Board of Education -- by the

        11       Education Department.  Now, what does the

        12       central registry keep?

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  The central

        14       registry is involved here in two ways.  In the

        15       first instance because many people, rightfully,

        16       assume that if there is an allegation of neglect

        17       or abuse, they should contact the central

        18       registry hot line.  They -- somebody, a parent,

        19       perhaps, may take it upon themselves -- a parent

        20       or guardian -- to contact the central registry

        21       hot line and what we've provided for is not that

        22       the central registry respond, as they would

        23       typically do in contacting the local social

        24       service department to do an investigation.

        25       We've provided that the central registry will







                                                             
2052

         1       serve, in effect, as a referral agency to refer

         2       this matter to the local school superintendent

         3       of the local school district.  That's one role

         4       of the central registry.

         5                      The second role is, as part of an

         6       employment screen, in order to determine if the

         7       individual who is making application for a

         8       position has either a criminal record or has

         9       ever been found to have committed child abuse,

        10       there is the ability to do a central registry

        11       search.  There is not the ability, as I

        12       explained earlier, to go into unfounded

        13       allegations.  That is not within the parameters

        14       of this bill and there's nothing in here that

        15       amends or attempts to amend what occurred when

        16       we adopted Elisa's Law to make this an

        17       additional access means to those records.

        18       That's not my intent and it's nothing that

        19       occurs under this law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        23       if you would continue to yield.

        24                      Senator Saland, thank you.  I

        25       think you've certainly clarified something for







                                                             
2053

         1       me and maybe everybody here understood it

         2       before, but I think now you're -- at least in my

         3       viewpoint, you're in the soup.  That's precisely

         4       what Senator Montgomery and Senator Paterson

         5       were concerned about and that's precisely what I

         6       was trying to get to.

         7                      There's an allegation -- so

         8       taking my example where there's a charge that

         9       teacher Steve Saland hit this kid.  So what the

        10       mother does, the first thing she does is she

        11       calls the central registry and says there's

        12       child abuse at the local school.  The next day

        13       she sees the principal.  The principal makes out

        14       the form.  That goes to the D.A.  The D.A. looks

        15       at it, investigates, finds out sure enough, the

        16       kid was in a fight.  Other kids testify to that

        17       and no record whatsoever is ever generated

        18       against Steve Saland, the teacher, but in the

        19       meantime you've got that complaint hanging out

        20       in the central registry.

        21                      Now, it's true, your bill says

        22       that it's only where the complaint is indicated,

        23       which is the language that's used in regard to

        24       the central registry, but indicated, the central

        25       registry doesn't conduct a careful criminal







                                                             
2054

         1       investigation.  They may -- they may just call

         2       up the kid and say what happened and the kid

         3       says, Oh, this teacher, he lost his temper and

         4       he hit me, and so on.  You can end up with an

         5       indicated report.

         6                      So under this example, teacher

         7       Saland who is -- the D.A. has cleared it and

         8       said, Oh, the kid just made that charge because

         9       he didn't want his mother to know he was in a

        10       fight in school, now the central registry has an

        11       indicated child abuse finding and their

        12       standard, Senator, as you know, is not beyond a

        13       reasonable doubt.  It's not even the

        14       preponderance of the evidence.  It's the

        15       sheerest, merest evidence whatever and Teacher

        16       Saland now applies to another school district.

        17       He's never going to get another job within the

        18       school district -- within the school system.

        19       Isn't that the case?

        20                      SENATOR SALAND:  I would

        21       respectfully beg to differ with you because,

        22       number one, the indicated standard certainly is

        23       not as abused as you would indicate that it is.

        24       When you look at the sheer number of cases and

        25       see the way they are received by the central







                                                             
2055

         1       registry and see the way they funneled the way

         2       through the process, the number of indicated

         3       cases, I would guess -- and I just don't have a

         4       recollection of all of them -- of the data -

         5       would probably be somewhere in the area of no

         6       more than about 20 percent, but let me come back

         7       to what I said before in response to the inquiry

         8       by Senator Paterson.

         9                      Where there is -- this screening

        10       occurs when the teacher makes application for

        11       his or her license.  If, in fact, an indicated

        12       comes up with the central registry, under the

        13       existing regulations or practice, since the 1995

        14       Prealta case, that person who would be the

        15       respondent in that proceeding has the ability to

        16       have that -- to have an expungement hearing

        17       where the burden is on the department to show

        18       not by merely credible evidence but by the

        19       standard established in Prealta, which is a fair

        20       preponderance of the evidence that, in fact,

        21       there was an incident of child abuse.  That's

        22       the standard.  It's not mere credible evidence.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Leichter.







                                                             
2056

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

         2       Saland, maybe one more question, I hope.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Saland, do you continue to yield?

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Senator continues to yield.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator -- and

        10       I don't know the answer to this.

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  I hope I do.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  When an

        13       allegation of child abuse is made -- let's deal

        14       just with the record of the central registry -

        15       whether it's in the home or in school, and so

        16       on, and a finding of indicated is made, does the

        17       central registry call or notify the person who

        18       is alleged to have committed this abuse that an

        19       indicated allegation or an indicated charge -- a

        20       charge has been made against that person that's

        21       indicated, because my concern is you may not

        22       know -- in my example, you may not know.  You're

        23       Steve Saland.  You have been charged with this.

        24       The D.A. looks at this and says "Absurd.  Never

        25       did it."  In the meantime, if you have been







                                                             
2057

         1       indicated by the child registry, you may not

         2       know until eight or nine years, unless you're

         3       notified, and I don't know whether they notify

         4       you, but I just want to play out what happens if

         5       you're not officially notified.  It's ten years

         6       later.  Now you find out that crazy charge was

         7       made against you that happened ten years ago.

         8       Go ahead.  Now establish the evidence that it

         9       was unfounded.

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  Senator

        11       Leichter, there is a notification procedure.  If

        12       it's purely a matter of a social service

        13       investigation, there is notification.  If the

        14       matter is one in which there is some kind of

        15       petition that results in which there is a Family

        16       Court proceeding, there certainly is that

        17       additional notification as well.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Excuse me, one

        19       -- if I may, with your indulgence, Senator, one

        20       more.  Are you 100 percent sure, because I

        21       looked -- I did some work on the central

        22       registry some years ago, and I must tell you, it

        23       works quite poorly.  You can't have much faith

        24       either in their findings of unfounded or in

        25       their findings of indicated, but my belief at







                                                             
2058

         1       that time for -- and there was some good policy

         2       reasons for it -- that they do not notify

         3       somebody that allegations have been made or that

         4       there is an indicated finding.  That's my

         5       recollection but it's somewhat dim.  So I just

         6       ask you to be 100 percent sure because it really

         7       would otherwise impose an impossible burden, in

         8       some cases, where there was an indicated finding

         9       if you're never told about it.

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  Under the law

        11       that -- well, let me say I handled a number of

        12       these cases in a prior life when I did work for

        13       my local county Social Service Department, and

        14       there certainly were a number of ability -- a

        15       number of ways in which notice was provided.

        16                      Under the law that existed until

        17       we did Elisa's Law, there was a notification

        18       procedure which required you to be notified of

        19       the availability of an expungement hearing.

        20                      Now, I would like to be able to

        21       say unequivocally and with absolute certainty

        22       that there is a social service notification

        23       mechanism.  My belief is, Senator Leichter, that

        24       there is one.  It certainly would seem to be

        25       virtually impossible where there is an indicated







                                                             
2059

         1       finding as distinguished from an unfounded -

         2       where there is an indicated finding, it would be

         3       beyond the pale of anything that would remotely

         4       approach due process not to provide notice to

         5       that individual to give them the opportunity to

         6       contest that finding.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I may just say

         8       counsel advised me that you're absolutely

         9       correct then.  My memory seems to be getting

        10       worse and worse because -

        11                      SENATOR SALAND:  I have the same

        12       problem, and I thank your counsel.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But I want to

        14       thank you very much for your patience, Senator

        15       Saland, and your answers.

        16                      Just very briefly on the bill, I

        17       don't think any of us have any problem in

        18       setting up a system whereby somebody who works

        19       in the school system who had a been convicted of

        20       an offense involving a child or, for that

        21       matter, probably involving even if it's a

        22       financial offense, certainly other school

        23       districts where that person applies to certainly

        24       should know that to set up a central registry,

        25       that's fine.  We ought to do that and I commend







                                                             
2060

         1       Senator Saland for doing it.

         2                      I just am concerned that there is

         3       an over-reaching here because you have this

         4       parallel system, if you will, whereby

         5       allegations can be sent to the central registry

         6       in the very case where a district attorney may

         7       say there is absolutely no basis for any charges

         8       against that school district employee.  There

         9       may be an allegation in the central registry.

        10       It may end up being indicated.  You're right.

        11       You can say, well, you can go through expunging

        12       proceedings but that puts a burden on you to

        13       come to at least initiate the proceeding, to

        14       take this action.  You've described it and you

        15       said that it provides full due process.  I don't

        16       know why that aspect of it really has to be part

        17       of your bill because if in every instance, as

        18       your bill provides, where there is an

        19       allegation, it goes to the D.A., why shouldn't

        20       that be enough?  We are concerned here,

        21       allegations within the school system.

        22                      I guess one of the things you're

        23       trying to do is also to reach out.  Maybe there

        24       were allegations in the home and that's why you

        25       refer to the central registry.  I can see some







                                                             
2061

         1       reason or justification for it, but I think that

         2       you're opening up really the search so widely

         3       that I think that information may well come in

         4       which is going to be damming.  It's utterly

         5       fatal to the employee.  You know no school

         6       system is going to hire somebody if there's an

         7       indicated finding when, in point of fact,

         8       knowing how the central registry works, it

         9       really may not amount to anything whatsoever,

        10       and I think it's that aspect of it that's

        11       worrisome.  I also -- as you and I were

        12       discussing it, I think that your definition of

        13       "physical injury" needs to be, in some

        14       respects, tightened up because I think it is too

        15       vague.

        16                      I wish you would make those

        17       changes in the bill because I think that it's

        18       much more likely to become law, and I think it

        19       would be a much better law.  It would really

        20       cover the areas that we're truly concerned

        21       about, which is some sort of criminal conviction

        22       of somebody in the school system who now seeks

        23       another job, certainly the employer should know

        24       that.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2062

         1       Dollinger.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         3       President, will Senator Saland yield to just a

         4       couple of questions?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Saland, do you yield to a couple of questions

         7       from Senator Dollinger?  The Senator yields.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, I

         9       have been through this bill and there's

        10       something that is just -- must have been left

        11       out of the bill.  Where is the appropriation to

        12       pay the school districts and the Department of

        13       Education for all the extra administrative time

        14       that it's going to take to administer this?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  I believe the

        16       memo indicates that we feel this could be

        17       accomplished with existing appropriations.  We

        18       don't believe that there are a flood or plethora

        19       of these cases.  It's fairly -- it can be

        20       handled fairly routinely.  The burden on the

        21       school district is primarily a matter of a

        22       notice procedure.  After they've done their

        23       notice procedure, to the district attorney, to

        24       the respective people required, they're pretty

        25       much out of the loop.  SED has to be a







                                                             
2063

         1       repository for receipt of the information and,

         2       again, quite candidly, I don't think we're

         3       talking hundreds of cases here and even if there

         4       were hundreds -- and I say quite candidly, I

         5       don't think it's anywhere near that kind of

         6       number -- you're not talking about a major

         7       fiscal impact.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         9       you, Mr. President, do you have anything from

        10       any school district anywhere in the state that

        11       agrees with the statements you just made?  Is

        12       there anything from the school district where

        13       they agree with you that they've got plenty -

        14                      SENATOR SALAND:  The school

        15       districts have been silent on this issue.  In my

        16       earlier remarks, I mentioned that there was

        17       certain anecdotal information of media accounts

        18       where these type of situations have occurred.

        19       There's one situation in my own district in

        20       which something like this has occurred.  I'm not

        21       quite sure what we will see if and when this

        22       bill were to become enacted but there's nothing

        23       here that I can remotely believe would

        24       constitute any kind of a burden on either a

        25       school district or the SED.







                                                             
2064

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         2       you, Mr. President, just one other question.  Is

         3       there anything in state law currently that

         4       prohibits the school districts from doing

         5       exactly what your bill requires other than

         6       maintaining the registry at the Department of

         7       Education?

         8                      SENATOR SALAND:  There is

         9       absolutely nothing in state law that provides by

        10       way of regulation or statute any guidance to any

        11       school districts and the problem is that in any

        12       number of instance, whether for the best of

        13       reasons or the worst of reasons, school

        14       districts have chosen not to deal with this

        15       issue.  In some instances, they may have

        16       believed, whether for the best of reasons or for

        17       the worst of reasons, that they were assisting

        18       the child by not subjecting the child to

        19       additional trauma, by bringing some type of a

        20       proceeding on.  In other instance, they may have

        21       thought that they were limiting their liability

        22       and perhaps their exposure or not letting the

        23       general community know that something like this

        24       had happened within their midst.

        25                      So the reality is that there is







                                                             
2065

         1       nothing on any record anywhere that's going to

         2       indicate a mechanism for school districts to

         3       follow.  We believe this is reasonable.  We

         4       believe it accomplishes what we think it should

         5       accomplish and, as I mentioned in my earlier

         6       remarks, we're already requiring fingerprinting

         7       of school bus drivers.  The city of New York, I

         8       believe fingerprints all of its school

         9       employees.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        11       you, Mr. President.  So you've never circulated

        12       this bill to any school district and asked them

        13       what the cost associated with the administrative

        14       and criminal penalties that you now attached to

        15       failure to process the administrative

        16       requirements in this bill.  No school district

        17       is made in on that issue?

        18                      SENATOR SALAND:  Quite honestly,

        19       Senator, I think that is pure bunk.  I mean, I

        20       think you're reaching for an issue where none

        21       exists.  You're beating something to death.  If

        22       you're going to tell me -- if it's your sense

        23       that there are a number of cases out there, that

        24       there are hundreds if not thousands of these

        25       cases, tell me about it.  The fact is this bill







                                                             
2066

         1       has been out there for two or three years.  The

         2       School Boards Association has never uttered a

         3       peep.  NYSUT found us.  They provided a memo.

         4       We've heard nothing from the School Boards

         5       Association and that may well be part of the

         6       problem.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         8       you, Mr. President, just on the bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Dollinger, on the bill.

        11                      SENATOR  DOLLINGER:  This is a

        12       bill I think we've done in the past.  I

        13       understand Senator Saland's position, but every

        14       time I get up here and talk about mandates, I'm

        15       always reminded -- I think, Senator Saland, you

        16       carried the massive mandate relief bill.

        17       Remember the mandate relief in which we're

        18       telling another level of government to do

        19       something that we think is right, that we think

        20       is the right thing to do and they come back to

        21       us and say, Great.  If you think it's such a

        22       great thing to do, why don't you give us the

        23       money to pay for it and, you know, the response

        24       I've gotten every year I have been here is

        25       three-fold:







                                                             
2067

         1                      First of all, everybody says,

         2       It's not that big a problem.  It won't cost that

         3       much money, to which I say, well, then why do we

         4       need to do the bill if it isn't that big of a

         5       problem.

         6                      The second response is, Oh,

         7       they're already doing it, they're already out

         8       there doing it.  This bill just codifies it.

         9       Well, if they're already doing it, why do we

        10       need to tell them to do it?

        11                      And then the lsat thing I'm

        12       always told, Listen, Senator, it's worth the

        13       cost.  No matter how much it costs, if we're

        14       going to protect children, it's by far worth the

        15       cost.  We've told that to the school districts

        16       for a century and every time they come it here,

        17       they say, Give us some mandate relief, will

        18       you?  Is there some way you could stop telling

        19       us what to do without paying for it?  Put your

        20       money where your mouth is.  Stick a little $5

        21       million appropriation in this bill.  Make it

        22       real.  Give them a way to pay for it and they

        23       will gladly welcome the ability to follow this

        24       stringent outline that you've talked about,

        25       Senator; but instead, we want to sit here and







                                                             
2068

         1       talk about mandate relief out of one corner of

         2       our mouth and out of telling them wjat to do,

         3       and how to prevent child abuse out of the other

         4       one.

         5                      I voted for this bill in the

         6       past.  I'm probably commited to vote for it

         7       again, Senator, but it seems to me, if you want

         8       to make real sense, you want to really solve the

         9       problem, tell them to do something.  Give them

        10       the funds to enable them to do it an do it right

        11       and then we may really have a solution to this

        12       problem and we can stop talking about these

        13       massive bills at other times of the year when

        14       mandate relief is the fashion instead of pre

        15       venting child abuse.

        16                      I think this bill has got a huge

        17       cost associated with it.  Look at the computer

        18       technology; look at the administrative time.  I

        19       think if we were honest and realistic with

        20       ourselves, there would be an appropriation on

        21       this bill and it might really mean something.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        23       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      The Secretary will read the last







                                                             
2069

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the 1st day of January.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         8       the results when tabulated.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Gold, to explain his vote.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

        13       was listening to this debate and I did vote for

        14       this in the past, and I just want it understood

        15       that having heard the debate, I'm going to vote

        16       in the negative on the arguments I heard from

        17       Senator Montgomery and Senator Leichter.

        18                      Senator Dollinger's arguments may

        19       have been interesting, but since they don't

        20       cause him enough grief to vote no, my no vote is

        21       a reflection of the arguments of Senator

        22       Leichter.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Gold will be recorded in the negative.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in







                                                             
2070

         1       the negative on Calendar Number 308: Senator

         2       Connor, Gold, Kruger, Leichter, Montgomery,

         3       Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, Smith, Stavisky and

         4       Waldon, also Senator Markowitz.  Ayes 49, nays

         5       12.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      The Secretary will continue to

         9       read the controversial calendar.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an

        12       act to amend the Election Law, in relation to

        13       cancellation of registration.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Maltese, an explanation has been asked for by

        17       Senator Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        19       the bill is to amend the Election Law, in

        20       relation to the cancellation of registration.

        21                      This bill would remove the

        22       requirement that a Board of Elections send a

        23       notice to a person whose voter registration is

        24       cancelled because the voter died.

        25                      Now, this would apply where New







                                                             
2071

         1       York City and New York State Boards of Health

         2       are required to send notifications to the county

         3       boards.  It's one of the few times that

         4       bureaucracies have resulted in the elimination

         5       of some bureaucratic steps.  I appreciate the

         6       opportunity for a request for an explanation

         7       because it gives me the opportunity at this time

         8       to use a Cook County, Chicago, Illinois statute

         9       which I believe read something like dying is not

        10       a sufficient reason to avoid the civic duty of

        11       voting.

        12                      I was hoping that Senator

        13       Oppenheimer would be here, and I want to give

        14       her an opportunity because she has a little

        15       adage something quite like it.

        16                      I think the sections are very

        17       clear.  What happened here apparently is that,

        18       when they deleted the requirement of

        19       notification, they deleted the requirements and

        20       did not specifically refer to the dying of a

        21       registered voter.

        22                      So this was at the request of the

        23       state Board of Elections, and we attempted to

        24       comply.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.







                                                             
2072

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Leichter.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Senator

         4       Maltese, you certainly are interfering with a

         5       traditional right and certainly there are

         6       places, I've heard it said, there are some

         7       politicians who have said, I want to be buried

         8       in Chicago because I want to remain active in

         9       politics.

        10                      The truth of the matter is,

        11       Senator, when I laid this bill aside, I thought

        12       we were dealing with 330, and obviously I don't

        13       think anybody objects to removing the name of a

        14       registrant who has died, but I just want to make

        15       this comment, Senator, and maybe if you bring up

        16       330, we'll have an opportunity.

        17                      Our campaign finance law, our

        18       Election Law, is a disgrace, utter absolute

        19       disgrace.  Now, I'm glad that you're addressing

        20       a burning issue, but I say with all respect to

        21       you as chair of the Election Law Committee, that

        22       there are things that we desperately need to do

        23       as far as campaign financing is concerned

        24       because, with all the abuses that we've seen

        25       reported on the national level, we have a sewer







                                                             
2073

         1       here in New York State, and I'm not charging one

         2       particular party or the other.

         3                      I've issued reports that shows

         4       that your party, Senator Maltese, has been

         5       highly imaginative in doing end runs around our

         6       campaign finance law, but I say to you there's a

         7       real obligation to take some action and I would

         8       hope that when this session ends, that we as a

         9       Legislature, if we're asked, What did you do

        10       about the Election Law and campaign financing,

        11       that we get up very proudly and say, Oh, you

        12       know, we said that, when somebody has died,

        13       their name has to be removed from the registry.

        14                      Senator, we need to do more than

        15       that.  Important as the step you're taking

        16       today, let's go much, much further.

        17                      Thank you.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Will Senator

        19       Maltese yield?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Maltese, do you yield to Senator Skelos?

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE: Yes.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Did you ever

        24       have the opportunity to visit the Lincoln

        25       bedroom in the White House?







                                                             
2074

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  No, I haven't,

         2       Senator Skelos, but I want to use this

         3       opportunity, since I'm on my feet to berate

         4       Senator Leichter, because he used Senator

         5       Oppenheimer's joke that this supposedly took

         6       place in Mamaroneck.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

         8       Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Hearing none, the Secretary will

        11       read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 61.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an

        22       act to amend the Election Law and State Finance

        23       Law, in relation to requiring a proposition

        24       authorizing the creation of a state debt.

        25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.







                                                             
2075

         1                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you very

         2       much.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Farley, an explanation has been asked for.

         5                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Let me begin by

         6       thanking Senator Dollinger for supporting this

         7       bill last year.

         8                      This bill amends the Election Law

         9       and it requires that the bond issue -- a bond

        10       issue proposition that goes on the ballot

        11       contain an estimate of the total amount to be

        12       repaid by the taxpayers, both principal and

        13       interest.  At present, only the principal is

        14       listed.  This is kind of a truth in borrowing

        15       law, and it also provides that any descriptive

        16       documents prepared by the state relating to the

        17       bond issue list both principal and interest.

        18                      This passed the Senate

        19       unanimously last year, and actually what this

        20       does, this is similar to consumer borrowing that

        21       requires disclosure of the total expected costs.

        22                      Now, somebody might ask, as you

        23       would ask, is how do you know what the interest

        24       rate will be?  Well, you really don't.  The

        25       Comptroller will have to estimate what the







                                                             
2076

         1       interest rate would be with his -- with his best

         2       guess, I guess you could say, and it would be

         3       reflected in that total amount and, again, until

         4       those bonds go out, you wouldn't know for sure.

         5                      It's designed to reflect the

         6       administrative reality by providing an estimate

         7       of the total cost insomuch as the actual rate of

         8       interest at which obligations can be determined

         9       in advance.

        10                      Also, this bill calls for

        11       disclosure to be printed in the largest type

        12       which is practicable for the different documents

        13       involved, recognizing administrative realities

        14       of varying documents on the ballot.

        15                      Basically, that's the -- I guess

        16       that's it.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Dollinger.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President, I don't need to question Senator

        21       Farley.  I'm just going to repeat history.

        22                      I did support this bill,

        23       Senator.  I'm not going to support it this time,

        24       because, as you may recall, last year when we

        25       did the Environmental Bond issue, I stood up and







                                                             
2077

         1       proposed an amendment which would require that

         2       when we submitted the environmental bond to

         3       voters, we stated exactly what the interest

         4       accrual would be on that bond over 30 years,

         5       which would have transformed a $1.75 billion

         6       bond issue into the true cost to voters, which

         7       is about 3.1 billion.

         8                      At that time I came before this

         9       house.  I proposed an amendment that we dis

        10       close the interest, that we actually take this

        11       bill and take the principle which you and I

        12       share and put it into place.  We had the

        13       opportunity to do that.  We didn't do it, and

        14       now we're going to pass a bill, with all due

        15       respect to Senator Farley -- this is a good bill

        16        -- I just can't support the idea of doing it in

        17       form but not doing it in practice.  We had an

        18       opportunity to do it; the Majority of this house

        19       voted it down, and I can only assume, Senator,

        20       that they're not committed to this principle

        21       when it really means something.

        22                      We had an opportunity to do it

        23       last time.  I came up with an amendment.  The

        24       Majority all voted against it, so I can assume

        25       that this bill has some poster meaning but no







                                                             
2078

         1       real meaning, Senator.

         2                      I appreciate it.  I support the

         3       concept.  I can't do it anymore.  I'm accused of

         4       hypocrisy at other times.  Today I'm going to

         5       try, on this vote anyway, try to be consistent

         6       and say I supported you in the past.  I wanted

         7       to do it when you had a chance to make it real,

         8       to tell the people of this state that what they

         9       were sold for 1.75 billion actually cost about

        10       3.2 billion over 30 years.

        11                      We had a chance to do it.  We

        12       didn't do it.  It doesn't seem to me to make

        13       sense to go back to this bill when we weren't

        14       committed to do it then and it doesn't seem to

        15       me that we're committed to it now.

        16                      I'm going to vote no.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        25       the results when tabulated.







                                                             
2079

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         2       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60, nays 1,

         4       Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      To answer your question, Senator

         8       Skelos, there is one substitution we would like

         9       to take up, if we can.  I would ask the

        10       Secretary to read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi

        12       moves to discharge from the Committee on

        13       Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number

        14       2101 and substitute it for the identical Senate

        15       Bill 2921-A.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       substitution is ordered.

        18                      Senator Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        20       there being no further business, I move we

        21       adjourn until Wednesday, March 26th, at 11:00

        22       a.m., sharp.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        24       objection, hearing no objection, the Senate

        25       stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday,







                                                             
2080

         1       March 26th, at the regular time, 11:00 a.m.

         2                      (Whereupon, at 4:52 p.m., the

         3       Senate adjourned.)

         4

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9

        10