Regular Session - March 26, 1997

                                                                 
2081

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                        March 26, 1997

        11                          11:00 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                       REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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        25







                                                             
2082

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         4       find their chairs, staff to find their places.

         5       I'd ask everybody in the chamber to rise with me

         6       and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance

         7       to the Flag.

         8                      (The assemblage repeated the

         9       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

        10                      In the absence of clergy, may we

        11       bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        12                      (A moment of silence was

        13       observed. )

        14                      Reading of the Journal.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        16       Tuesday, March 25th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, March 24th,

        18       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        19       adjourned.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        21       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.

        24                      Messages from the Assembly.

        25                      Messages from the Governor.







                                                             
2083

         1                      Reports of standing committees.

         2                      Reports of select committees.

         3                      Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                      Motions and resolutions.

         6                      Senator Marcellino.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.  On page number 27, on behalf of

         9       Senator Volker, I offer the following amendments

        10       to Calendar Number 441, Senate Print Number

        11       1467, and ask that the bill retain its place on

        12       the Third Reading Calendar.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       amendments to Calendar Number 441 are received

        15       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        16       the Third Reading Calendar.

        17                      Senator Skelos.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        19       believe there are five privileged resolutions by

        20       Senator Tully at the desk.  May we please have

        21       the titles read and move for their immediate

        22       adoption.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        24       will read the titles to the five resolutions.

        25       We'll adopt them at one time.







                                                             
2084

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Tully,

         2       Legislative Resolution paying tribute to the

         3       members of Senior Troop 973 upon the occasion of

         4       their designation for special commendation on

         5       March 26th, 1997;

         6                      By Senator Tully, Legislative

         7       Resolution paying tribute to the members of

         8       Cadet Troop 1022 upon the occasion of their

         9       designation for special commendation on March

        10       26th, 1997;

        11                      By Senator Tully, Legislative

        12       Resolution paying tribute to the members of

        13       Cadet Troop 1052, upon the occasion of their

        14       designation for special commendation on March

        15       26th, 1997;

        16                      By Senator Tully, Legislative

        17       Resolution paying tribute to members of Cadet

        18       Troop 1737, upon the occasion of their

        19       designation for special commendation March 26th,

        20       1997; and

        21                      By Senator Tully, Legislative

        22       Resolution paying tribute to members of Junior

        23       Troop 1859, upon the occasion of their

        24       designation for special commendation on March

        25       26th, 1997.







                                                             
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         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         2       recognizes Senator Tully, on the resolutions.

         3                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      I rise and ask that we pause in

         6       our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets

         7       and -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Tully, excuse me for an interruption just a

        10       minute.  It's a little noisy in the chamber.

        11       Can we get some order in the house, please.

        12       Have a number of guests, and I'm sure they would

        13       like to hear what Senator Tully is about to

        14       say.

        15                      Senator Tully.

        16                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      I rise and ask that we pause in

        19       our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets

        20       and senior Girl Scouts from the hamlets of

        21       Williston Park, Albertson, Roslyn and Mineola to

        22       my rear and up above me.  We're privileged to

        23       have with us representatives of the Senior Troop

        24       973, Cadet Troop 1737, Cadet Troop 1052 -- 1022

        25       and Junior Troop 1859.  They join us today in







                                                             
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         1       celebration of this, the 85th Anniversary of the

         2       Girl Scouts.

         3                      When many of us think about Girl

         4       Scouts, one of the first things that pops into

         5       our heads are the infamous Girl Scout cookies.

         6       However, the Girl Scouts are a lot more than

         7       that.

         8                      Founded in 1812 by Juliet Gordon

         9       in Savannah, Georgia, Girl Scouts are an

        10       organization with a proud past and a bright

        11       future helping girls to become tomorrow's

        12       leaders in a fun and healthy atmosphere.

        13                      There are over 3 million Girl

        14       Scouts nationwide and 17,000 in the great county

        15       of Nassau, including 36 associations and 1200

        16       troops.

        17                      Throughout all of our district,

        18       the Girl Scouts are known and respected for

        19       their unparalleled commitment to their

        20       community.  The spirit of the Girl Scouts

        21       promotes the development and growth of young

        22       women.

        23                      Today the Girl Scouts of Nassau

        24       County offer a broad range of programs dealing

        25       with many contemporary challenges such as







                                                             
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         1       choices and "Challenges", a program dealing with

         2       drug and alcohol abuse prevention.

         3                      We all thank you for making our

         4       communities better places to live.  The Girl

         5       Scouts certainly represent a perfect example in

         6       citizenry which all of us should follow.  Again

         7       congratulations on your 85th Anniversary.  I

         8       thank each and every one of you for joining us

         9       today and wish you the best of luck and future

        10       success in all that you do.

        11                      Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        13       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        14       resolutions?  Hearing none, the question is on

        15       the resolutions prepared and presented by

        16       Senator Tully.  All those in favor signify by

        17       saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The resolutions are adopted.

        22       Senator Skelos.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        24       with the consent of the Minority, I just want to

        25       notify the members that there is a Calendar







                                                             
2088

         1       Number 457, S. 3864, by Senator Marcellino,

         2       concerning the management of sea bass, which has

         3       been added to the live calendar and if we could

         4       at this time take up the non-controversial

         5       calendar.

         6                      Make substitutions first?  If we

         7       could have the substitutions made first.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the

         9       benefit of the members, the Acting Majority

        10       Leader just announced that the active list has

        11       been amended by adding Calendar Number 457, so

        12       add Calendar Number 457 to your active list.  We

        13       do have some substitutions at the desk and a

        14       standing committee report that we can take up

        15       too.

        16                      I'll ask the Secretary to read

        17       the substitutions.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 25

        19       Senator Stafford moves to discharge from the

        20       Committee on Finance Assembly Bill Number 1301-A

        21       and substitute it for the identical Third

        22       Reading Calendar 412.

        23                      On page 25, Senator Stafford

        24       moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance

        25       Assembly Bill Number 6551 and substitute it for







                                                             
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         1       the identical Third Reading Calendar 415.

         2                      On page 27, Senator Present moves

         3       to discharge from the Committee on Local

         4       Government Assembly Bill Number 6329 and

         5       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

         6       Calendar 436.

         7                      And on page 29, Senator LaValle

         8       moves to discharge from the Committee on

         9       Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number

        10       5299 and substitute it for the identical Third

        11       Reading Calendar 455.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       substitutions are ordered.

        14                      Senator Skelos, we do have that

        15       report of a standing committee, the Higher

        16       Education Committee, that we could read in.

        17       We'll return to the order of standing -- reports

        18       of standing committees.  I'll ask the Secretary

        19       to read the report.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle,

        21       from the Committee on Higher Education, reports

        22       the following bill direct to third reading:

        23                      Senate Print 3511, by Senator

        24       Lack, an act authorizing the State University of

        25       New York to lease and contract for the design







                                                             
2090

         1       and construction of an Asian cultural and

         2       studies center.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         4       objection, hearing no objection, the bill is

         5       ordered directly to third reading.  Senator

         6       Skelos, that brings us to the calendar.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:

         8       Non-controversial please, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the non-controversial

        11       calendar.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       182, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number

        14       2076-A, an act to amend the General Business

        15       Law, in relation to establishing additional

        16       restrictions.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
2091

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an

         4       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

         5       motor vehicle liability insurance rates.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Lay that

         7       aside.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         9       bill aside at the request of Senator Dollinger.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       289, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1924, an

        12       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        13       authorizing an additional term of imprisonment.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        18       November.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
2092

         1       311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,

         2       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

         3       relation to transportation of certain persons.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       325, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 927-A, an act

         9       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the

        10       Public Authorities Law, in relation to

        11       authorizing cities.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        15       act shall take effect in 30 days.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       the passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       359, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number

        24       3080, an act to amend the General Municipal Law,

        25       in relation to powers of municipalities.







                                                             
2093

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Padavan, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Lay that bill

         4       aside for the day pending receipt of

         5       amendments.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

         7       Number 359 will be laid aside at the request of

         8       the sponsor.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       369, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 204, an

        11       acted to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

        12       increasing bonded indebtedness.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        14       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        15       read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       392, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2804, an







                                                             
2094

         1       act to amend Chapter 31 of the Laws of 1985,

         2       amending the Education Law.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       412, substituted earlier today, Budget Bill,

        15       Assembly Print 1301-A, an act making

        16       appropriations for the legal requirements of the

        17       state debt service.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is high.  It will be laid aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       415, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        22       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act

        23       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

        24       to powers of the Dormitory Authority.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
2095

         1       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       416, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         4       Print 3865, an act to amend the State Finance

         5       Law, in relation to monies available.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       417, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        10       Print 3867, an act to amend the State Finance

        11       Law, in relation to monies available.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       427, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        16       Print 3863, an act to amend Chapter 329 of the

        17       Laws of 1991, amending the State Finance Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       428, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        22       Print 3866, an act to amend the Transportation

        23       Law, in relation to fees paid to defray the

        24       operating expenses.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
2096

         1       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       435, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3754, an act

         4       to amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992,

         5       amending the General Municipal Law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       436, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly

        18       Print 6329, substituted earlier today, an act to

        19       amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Senate bill is high, but the Assembly substitute

        22       is live.  Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
2097

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834,

         8       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

         9       Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is high.  The bill will be laid aside.

        12                      Senator Skelos, that completes

        13       the reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        15       if we could take up the controversial calendar

        16       starting with Senator DeFrancisco's bill,

        17       Calendar Number 311.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Dollinger, why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  A motion to

        21       discharge pending.  Is that motion in order at

        22       this time?  Can we take that?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  No, it's

        24       not, Senator.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  It is not?







                                                             
2098

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  No, the

         2       calendar specifically provides that the motions

         3       to discharge will be taken up at the end of the

         4       day, so after we're done with the calendar, then

         5       and at the end of the day you'll be recognized

         6       for that purpose.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is that -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Skelos, did you wish to speak to that?

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe that's

        11       Rule V.  And would you please recognize Senator

        12       Seward.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Seward.

        15                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President,

        16       if I could interrupt the proceedings briefly to

        17       place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 270,

        18       270.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       will be starred at the request of the sponsor.

        21                      SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        23       Dollinger, does that explain to you?

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just a point

        25       of order, Mr. President.  Does that mean that we







                                                             
2099

         1       go through the controversial calendar and there

         2       are bills that are either laid aside or for some

         3       other purpose, and the Rules Committee meets

         4       that it's after that, or the reading of the

         5       controversial calendar.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  It is the last

        10       order of business of the day.

        11                      If we could take up Senator

        12       DeFrancisco's bill, Calendar Number 311.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read Calendar Number 311.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,

        17       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        18       relation to the transportation of certain

        19       persons.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number

        23       311 has been requested by the Acting Minority

        24       Leader, Senator Paterson.

        25                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  This bill







                                                             
2100

         1       is to require that, if an individual is seeking

         2       transportation and it's paid for my Medicaid or

         3       social services in some fashion, that if the

         4       person is physically and mentally capable of

         5       using a fixed route public transportation

         6       system, then that the individual would be

         7       scheduled on that rather than an alternative

         8       type of transportation.

         9                      The reason for this bill is,

        10       number one, if someone is capable and able

        11       bodied and able to use public transportation

        12       just like anyone else who is not on social

        13       services, they should be suitable for -- the

        14       public transportation should be suitable for

        15       those individuals.

        16                      Secondly, it has a second

        17       benefit, not only to cut costs in social

        18       services, but every year we in the Senate and

        19       the Assembly, provide support for public

        20       transportation by way of grants to various

        21       public transportation facilities such as CENTRO

        22       in my district.  By having this requirement, not

        23       only will it save money in social services, but

        24       it will also provide for increased ridership of

        25       public transportation and, therefore, reduce the







                                                             
2101

         1       need for subsidies to allow public transporta

         2       tion which is needed by all, especially low

         3       income workers, a reliable public transportation

         4       system is essential, so it will increase

         5       ridership and help those type of organizations

         6       as well.

         7                      That's the purpose for the bill,

         8       and it did pass last year.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      If Senator DeFrancisco would

        14       yield for a few questions.

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I will.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       yields.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator,

        19       related to this particular bill there have been

        20       a number of complaints that I have heard about

        21       and received from seniors who may not be totally

        22       incapacitated but certainly suffer from a number

        23       of physical challenges, and what this bill will

        24       effectively do in many cases is force, in New

        25       York City, seniors onto the subway, and I'm







                                                             
2102

         1       wondering, in spite of the fact that it may have

         2       some -- it may have some cost reductions,

         3       whether or not you think this is a good idea,

         4       where you have such a subjective standard of

         5       what incapacity would be and prior approval.

         6                      The point just is that it seems

         7       pretty clear to most of the senior groups and

         8       the seniors that I have spoken to that it's

         9       going to cause an encumbrance and an

        10       inconvenience for those who really do need the

        11       care.  It's not that -- that they're just taking

        12       advantage of taxpayer dollars, and their trip to

        13       receive that care is going to be made that much

        14       more difficult by the passage of -- of what

        15       you're proposing.

        16                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Well, you

        17       know, if we were in a perfect world, we could

        18       pay for everything for anybody, whatever their

        19       needs might be, but unfortunately we're not in

        20       that situation.

        21                      What the bill says specifically

        22       is that public transportation shall be required

        23       when that transportation is available and the

        24       nature and severity of the recipient's illness

        25       does not necessitate a mode of transportation.







                                                             
2103

         1       If the senior or the junior or anybody else can

         2       prove that -- establish that their illness is

         3       such that other type of transportation is

         4       required, then they wouldn't be subject to the

         5       requirements of this particular bill.

         6                      So I think there's people who

         7       aren't on public assistance that are old too

         8       that go on public transportation.  There are

         9       people that are in low income jobs that also go

        10       on public transportation, and when we keep

        11       cutting routes in public transportation because

        12       we don't have enough ridership, that requires us

        13       to fund in the public transportation area as

        14       well.

        15                      I think the bill strikes a good

        16       balance because those cases that compel other

        17       types of transportation would be permitted under

        18       the bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       if Senator DeFrancisco would continue to yield.

        23                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       continues to yield.







                                                             
2104

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      Senator, how do you distinguish

         4       between "disability" and "illness" under the

         5       legislation?  It seems as if individuals who are

         6       disabled but not ill would still be required to

         7       use these methods of transportation.

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Well,

         9       whether you call it illness or disability, if

        10       public transportation is something that is

        11       inappropriate for that particular individual,

        12       then public transportation is not required.

        13                      You know, in the law, we've been

        14       interpreting "reasonable man" or woman for many,

        15       many years, most recently women, but it always

        16       used to be the "reasonable man" standard and

        17       that standard has been interpreted by the courts

        18       and has been interpreted by administrators for

        19       years and years.  There's no precise definition

        20       that you can give, but the intent is clear that

        21       obviously if an individual has a condition such

        22       that public transportation is inappropriate,

        23       then that -- then they would not be required to

        24       use public transportation and certain

        25       disabilities, by the way, at least in our







                                                             
2105

         1       district, there are CENTRO buses that do have

         2       ramps that allow for individuals with certain

         3       handicapped conditions to use public

         4       transportation.  In fact, the groups demanded it

         5       and got it so that they could travel like

         6       everybody else can, and so by using the word

         7       "disability", there's some people with

         8       disabilities that not only travel on public

         9       transportation but also wanted to travel on

        10       public transportation, and that's why the buses

        11       were modified and new buses have these

        12       particular ramps.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        16       President.  If the Senator would continue to

        17       yield.

        18                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, since

        22       it is not a perfect world and we are using a

        23       reasonable standard test, my question simply is,

        24       since we already require prior approval, what is

        25       really going to be enhanced by passing this







                                                             
2106

         1       bill? I mean in other words we have a standard

         2       right now that makes -- that not only delineates

         3       between whether a person is able or not able to

         4       sponsor themselves to get to this medical care,

         5       and my question is, if that's already the case,

         6       why would we want to tinker with it when the

         7       individuals who are affected are pretty much

         8       going to be people who have been taxpayer

         9       dollars, their tax dollars have provided the

        10       broad revenue base for our standard of living

        11       and for our economy here in this state.

        12                      It just seems to me this is the

        13       wrong crowd to really pick on if we want to cut

        14       costs, and increase ridership on the subway or

        15       whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish.

        16       It's just my opinion that we are splitting hairs

        17       but since we already have the prior approval,

        18       why would we not just remain on that standard?

        19                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Because it

        20       depends on where you happen to live in the state

        21       of New York whether or not -- how that prior

        22       approval is being interpreted, and here is an

        23       objective standard that would apply statewide

        24       for prior approval.

        25                      Secondly, I'm not trying to pick







                                                             
2107

         1       on anybody.  No one's trying to pick on anybody,

         2       but it's similar to other bills that we pass.

         3       It's wonderful to provide things for people, but

         4       if you look at that next step, that next level

         5       of individuals who may have the same

         6       disabilities or may have the same illnesses that

         7       can't afford public transportation but they're

         8       not on social services, they have to -- they

         9       have to find a way to do it as well.

        10                      It's just putting, I think, the

        11       individuals who are on social services in the

        12       same position as any other individual who may

        13       not be, in an effort to increase ridership and

        14       in an effort so that there is a viable public

        15       transportation system for those who need it,

        16       especially people with low income trying to

        17       maintain a job and not be required to go on

        18       social services.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his

        23       answer.

        24                      Mr. President, on the bill.  It

        25       really did take me a moment to try to figure out







                                                             
2108

         1       what Senator DeFrancisco was getting at, and his

         2       explanation was -- was quite fulfilling in the

         3       sense that I understand now what he's saying

         4       about the problem in the current law as it's

         5       applied in different areas around the state.

         6                      My response is simply that, if

         7       there is a problem with the current law, I don't

         8       think that we necessarily have to pass

         9       legislation that is going to exact the

        10       encumbrances on individuals who need this kind

        11       of assistance as much as we might be able to go

        12       through DSS or New York City HRA and accomplish

        13       that through what I think would be some

        14       administrative changes that might level the

        15       playing field all over the state; but I just

        16       think that as a means to increase ridership on

        17       the subway as was mentioned or because of the

        18       fact that perhaps a few people that probably

        19       could get there by an alternative means of

        20       transportation probably aren't, in my opinion,

        21       it's so de minimus in terms of what its effect

        22       is or even what its cost is that it doesn't, in

        23       my opinion, augur well for us as a state to be

        24       exacting this kind of inconvenience on many of

        25       our citizens.







                                                             
2109

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         2       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

         3                      Senator Waldon.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         5       much, Mr. President.

         6                      Would the learned gentleman from

         7       Syracuse, great area of Syracuse yield to a

         8       question or two?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Waldon?

        11                      Senator yields.

        12                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        13       much, Mr. President.

        14                      Senator DeFrancisco, were any

        15       studies conducted before you wrote this

        16       legislation, this proposal, in regard to the

        17       locations of bus lines in the city of New York

        18       versus the homes of many of the seniors in that

        19       area, meaning the distance as a rule of thumb

        20       from home to accessing the bus lines?

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  There's no

        22       studies that I know of.  The way the bill came

        23       to my attention is that every year since I've

        24       been in the Senate, our local bus company,

        25       CENTRO, keeps coming to my office for additional







                                                             
2110

         1       revenues in order to balance their budget or

         2       else they're going to cut lines, so there will

         3       be less convenient lines for everybody and, at

         4       some point in time, they had mentioned that

         5       their organization had a similar situation occur

         6       throughout at least upstate New York and central

         7       New York where they were learning that many

         8       individuals who would be physically capable to

         9       take their bus service were being given

        10       alternate means of transportation.

        11                      So the idea came actually from

        12       them that this would be a win/win situation.

        13       Number one, it would allow us to keep the more

        14       bus routes that we had if we had increased

        15       ridership and it would save money in the Social

        16       Services Department, so I guess what I'm saying

        17       no study but without something like this,

        18       there's a risk at least in my area of reduced

        19       number of bus lines because of reduced

        20       revenues.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would the

        22       gentleman yield to one more question?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?

        25                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.







                                                             
2111

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       continues to yield.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         4       much, Mr. President.

         5                      By the way, Senator Paterson, can

         6       you hear me now?  Yesterday we discussed whether

         7       or not this microphone works sufficiently well.

         8       Are you able to hear me?

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Will the

        10       Senator yield?

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  He could have

        12       just nodded.  But anyway, Senator DeFrancisco,

        13       the question is, are there any elevated lines in

        14       Syracuse, New York?

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  There's

        16       none off the ground, no.

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        18       much.  Mr. President, on the bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Waldon, on the bill.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President, I

        22       think that this may be very appropriate, what

        23       Senator DeFrancisco has proposed, for the city

        24       of Syracuse, New York, but it is very inappro

        25       priate for the city of New York.







                                                             
2112

         1                      One, many of the seniors who may

         2       be infirm or suffering disability, be it severe

         3       or very light, have to negotiate from their

         4       homes to the bus lines which are not so close

         5       by.  An example, the Q4, which goes up and down

         6       Linden Boulevard which is just one block from my

         7       house, but if you go over towards the cemetery

         8       or Francis Lewis Boulevard -- and there are

         9       many, many homes of constituents there -- people

        10       in snowy times and wet weather times, be they

        11       seniors or otherwise, have to walk that great

        12       distance six or seven blocks just to get to that

        13       bus line.  When it's snow and ice on the ground,

        14       it becomes an extreme difficulty for them.

        15       Those who have to go to the elevated line would

        16       have to negotiate those steps by themselves and

        17       I don't think the standard as described in this

        18       proposal is sufficiently sensitive to having

        19       someone at DSS say, Well, you know, if you can

        20       walk you can get there.  They would not

        21       necessarily say, If you can walk but with some

        22       difficulty you will not have to use the public

        23       transportation.

        24                      And so, for those reasons, I will

        25       have to vote no.







                                                             
2113

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the

         2       Senator yield to one question?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         4       Waldon, do you yield to a question from Senator

         5       DeFrancisco?

         6                      SENATOR WALDON: Absolutely.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         8       yields.

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How do those

        10       same seniors and the same individuals get to the

        11       various means of public transportation that are

        12       not on social services?

        13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Well, for the

        14       most part, the organization that I helped to

        15       create, the Jamaica Service Program for Older

        16       Adults, which has been in existence for about a

        17       quarter of a century and which services about

        18       400,000 seniors in the southeast Queens areas,

        19       they have bus services; they have van services.

        20       They have the ability for the seniors to -- they

        21       have the service where the seniors can call and

        22       say, "I have to go to my doctor.  I have to go

        23       shopping for food," and someone is provided to

        24       take them, so that's not an issue at this

        25       moment.







                                                             
2114

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  O.K. Thank

         2       you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

         4       Senator wishing to speak on the bill?   Hearing

         5       none, the Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        12       the results when tabulated.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        14       the negative on Calendar Number 311 are Senators

        15       Abate, Connor, Gentile, Gold, Kruger, Lachman,

        16       Markowitz, Mendez, Paterson, Rosado, Santiago,

        17       Seabrook, Smith and Waldon, also Senator

        18       Sampson.  Ayes 37, nays 15.  Also Senator

        19       Oppenheimer.  Ayes 36, nays 18*(16?).

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      Senator Skelos, where would you

        23       like to go next on the active list?

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please take up

        25       Calendar Number 235, by Senator Cook.







                                                             
2115

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will read Calendar Number 235, Senate Print

         3       1418-A, by Senator Cook.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an

         6       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

         7       motor vehicle liability insurance rates.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Could we have

         9       an explanation of that bill.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 235 has

        12       been requested by Senator Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, a

        14       short answer is this simply makes permanent a

        15       provision that is currently in the law that has

        16       a sunset date on it.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Dollinger.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President, I didn't hear that.  I apologize.

        21                      SENATOR COOK:  Senator, this

        22       simply makes permanent a provision of law that's

        23       already in there with a sunset date in it.

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        25       President, is this 235?







                                                             
2116

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  This is

         2       Calendar Number 235, Senator Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

         4                      The wording, Senator, has been

         5       changed somewhat because the Insurance Committee

         6       felt that, if we were going to make it

         7       permanent, it would be a good idea to make the

         8       language a little more clear, but it's currently

         9       the provision that's in the law.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. That

        11       answers my question, Mr. President.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Last section.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 1st day of

        17       January.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      Senator Skelos, where would you

        25       like to go next?







                                                             
2117

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         2       we'll stand at ease.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Senate will stand at ease.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is my motion

         6       in order at this point?  Mr. President, the

         7       calendar is done.  While we're waiting for

         8       bills, I assume action from other committees,

         9       why wouldn't it be -

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Dollinger, we're still on the order of the

        12       calendar.  We have not gone any farther than

        13       that in the order, and the rules specifically -

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        15       believe we're at ease.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We are.

        17       We are.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        19       President, can I ask a point of order while

        20       we're at ease?  Can I get a point of order at

        21       ease or not?  No?  Unbelievable!

        22                      (The Senate stood at ease from

        23       11:36 a.m., to 12:06 p.m.)

        24                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2118

         1       Velella.

         2                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr. President,

         3       there will be a Majority Conference in the

         4       Majority Conference Room at 12:15, and the

         5       Senate will stand at ease in the interim.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:

         7       Republican conference, Majority Conference in

         8       the Majority Conference Room at 12:15.

         9                      Senate stands at ease.

        10                      (The Senate was at ease from

        11       12:07 p.m., until 1:15 p.m.)

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Skelos.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        16       will come to order.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

        21       recognize Senator Montgomery.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Montgomery.

        24                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

        25       Mr. President.







                                                             
2119

         1                      I'd like to have unanimous

         2       consent to be recorded in the negative on

         3       Calendar 311.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         5       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

         6       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

         7       Calendar Number 311.

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

        10       recognize Senator Stavisky.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        12       Stavisky.

        13                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  I also would

        14       like to have unanimous consent to be recorded in

        15       the negative on Calendar Number 311.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        17       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        18       Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on

        19       Calendar Number 311.

        20                      Senator Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator Bruno

        22       would like the membership informed that the

        23       Senate will stand in recess until 3:15 and would

        24       suggest that you call each one's respective

        25       leader to find out if we will be starting







                                                             
2120

         1       exactly at 3:15.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

         3       stands in recess until 3:15.

         4                      (Whereupon at 1:18 p.m., the

         5       Senate recessed until 5:09 p.m.)

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Senate will come to order.

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        10       there will be an immediate meeting of the

        11       Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and

        12       the Senate will stand at ease awaiting the

        13       report of the Finance Committee.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        15       will be a immediate meeting of the Senate

        16       Finance Committee, immediate meeting of the

        17       Senate Finance Committee in the Majority

        18       Conference Room, Room 332, and we'll stand at

        19       ease awaiting the report from that committee

        20       meeting, and which Senator Gold is on his way

        21       anxiously and hurriedly out of the chamber to

        22       attend.

        23                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        24       ease from 5:10 p.m. until 5:20 p.m.)

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
2121

         1       Senate will come to order.  Members please take

         2       their chairs.

         3                      Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         5       if we could return to reports of standing

         6       committees, I believe there's a report at the

         7       desk of the Finance Committee.  I ask that it be

         8       read.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        10       return to the order of standing -- reports of

        11       standing committees.

        12                      I'll ask the Secretary to read

        13       the report of the Finance Committee.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        15       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        16       following bills:

        17                      Senate Print 3428-A, by Senator

        18       Velella, an act to amend the Education Law, in

        19       relation to transportation services;

        20                      3977, by the Senate Committee on

        21       Rules, an act making appropriations for the

        22       support of government;

        23                      3979, by the Senate Committee on

        24       Rules, an act making appropriations for the

        25       support of government; and







                                                             
2122

         1                      3978, by the Senate Committee on

         2       Rules, an act making appropriations for the

         3       support of government.

         4                      All bills ordered direct for

         5       third reading.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         9       at this time if we could go back to the regular

        10       calendar and take up Calendar Number 412, Senate

        11       701-A.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       objection, all bills reported from the Finance

        14       Committee are ordered directly to third

        15       reading.  We'll return to the calendar, the

        16       active list.

        17                      The Secretary will read Calendar

        18       Number 412.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       412, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print

        21       1301-A, substituted earlier today, an act making

        22       appropriations for the legal requirements of the

        23       state debt service.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Skelos.







                                                             
2123

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         2       message of necessity at the desk?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

         7       Calendar Number 412.  All those in favor signify

         8       by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye".)

        10                      Opposed, nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The message is accepted.

        13                      The Secretary will read the last

        14       section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      Senator Skelos.

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        25       would you take up Calendar Number 415, Senate







                                                             
2124

         1       3857.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       415, substituted earlier today by the Assembly

         6       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act

         7       to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation

         8       to powers of the Dormitory Authority.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Skelos.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        12       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        17       Calendar Number 415.  All those in favor signify

        18       by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The message is accepted.

        23                      The Secretary will read the last

        24       section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This







                                                             
2125

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        10       would you take up Calendar Number 457, Senate

        11       3864.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834,

        16       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        17       Law, in relation to extending authority to

        18       regulate the management of scup and black sea

        19       bass.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Skelos.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

        23       message at the desk?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.







                                                             
2126

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

         3       Calendar Number 457.  All those in favor signify

         4       by saying aye.

         5                      (Response of "Aye".)

         6                      Opposed, nay.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      The message is accepted.

         9                      The Secretary will read the last

        10       section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect April 1st.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      Senator Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        21       there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        22       Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and the

        23       Senate will stand at ease pending the report of

        24       the Rules Committee.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There







                                                             
2127

         1       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

         2       Committee in the Senate Majority Conference

         3       Room, Room 332, an immediate meeting in the

         4       Senate Majority Conference Room for the Rules

         5       Committee and the Senate stands at ease.

         6                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         7       ease from 5:24 p.m. until 5:29 p.m.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senate will come to order again.

        10                      Senator Skelos.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        12       if we could once again return to reports of

        13       standing committees, I believe there's a report

        14       of the Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that

        15       it be read.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        17       return to the order of reports of standing

        18       committees.

        19                      I'll ask the Secretary to read

        20       the report from the Rules Committee.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

        22       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        23       following bills:

        24                      Senate Print 3779, by Senator

        25       Trunzo, an act to amend the Civil Service Law,







                                                             
2128

         1       in relation to providing for payments to certain

         2       public employees; and

         3                      Senate Print 3980, by the Senate

         4       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

         5       Environmental Conservation Law, in relation to

         6       centrally fueled fleets.

         7                      All bills ordered direct for

         8       third reading.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        10       objection, all bills are ordered directly to

        11       third reading.

        12                      Senator Skelos, we have a motion

        13       we would like to take care of if that's okay at

        14       this time.  We'll return to motions and

        15       resolutions.

        16                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  On behalf of Senator Goodman, on

        20       page number 20, I offer the following amendments

        21       to Calendar Number 379, Senate Print Number 753

        22       and ask that said bill retain its place on the

        23       Third Reading Calendar.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       amendments to Calendar Number 379 are received







                                                             
2129

         1       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         2       the Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Skelos.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         8       would you please call up Senate 3428-A, which

         9       was reported from the Finance Committee.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have a

        11       substitution on that bill we would like to read

        12       first, Senator Skelos, to put it before the

        13       house.

        14                      The Secretary will read the

        15       substitution.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

        17       moves to discharge from the Committee on

        18       Education Assembly Bill Number 6298-A and

        19       substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        20       Calendar 459.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       substitution is ordered.

        23                      The Secretary will read the

        24       title.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
2130

         1       459, by member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly

         2       Print 6298-A, an act to amend the Education Law,

         3       in relation to transportation services.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         5       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.  The

         6       Secretary will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Senator Skelos.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        17       would you take up Senate 3977 which was just

        18       reported from the Finance Committee.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number

        21       -- excuse me -- Senate Print 3977, Calendar

        22       Number 460.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       460, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        25       Print 3977, an act making appropriations for the







                                                             
2131

         1       support of government.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         5       message at the desk?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         7       a message of necessity on Calendar Number 460 at

         8       the desk, Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        12       Calendar Number 460.  All those in favor signify

        13       by saying aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye".)

        15                      Opposed, nay.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The message is accepted.

        18                      The Secretary will read the last

        19       section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        21       act shall take effect April 1st.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.







                                                             
2132

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  If we could just

         5       stand at ease for a moment.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos, we do have a message from the Assembly,

         8       if you would like to take that, concerning a

         9       bill we put to third reading.  It's Assembly

        10       Print 6545.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept

        12       the message from the Assembly.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        14       return to the reports of messages from the

        15       Assembly.

        16                      I'll ask the Secretary to read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  On motion of

        18       Senator Bruno, the rules were suspended on said

        19       bill, Assembly 6545, by the Assembly Committee

        20       on Rules, ordered to third reading.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, the bill is ordered directly to third

        23       reading.

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Stand at ease

        25       now.







                                                             
2133

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Senate will stand at ease.

         3                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         4       ease from 5:35 p.m. until 6:00 p.m.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senate will come to order.

         7                      Senator Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you please

         9       call up Calendar Number 462.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       462, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        14       Print 3978, an act making appropriations for the

        15       support of government.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Skelos.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        19       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        24       Calendar Number 462, Senate Print 3978.  All

        25       those in favor signify by saying aye.







                                                             
2134

         1                      (Response of "Aye".)

         2                      Opposed, nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The message is accepted.

         5                      The Secretary will read the last

         6       section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         8       act shall take effect April 1st.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        13       the results when recorded.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        15       would you call up Calendar Number 463, Senate

        16       Bill Number 3980.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        18       the negative on Calendar Number 462 are Senators

        19       Abate, Breslin, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Nanula,

        20       Oppenheimer, Rosado.  Senator Abate recorded in

        21       the affirmative.  Ayes 54, nays 6.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, how

        23       did I vote?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Gold, you were recorded in the affirmative.







                                                             
2135

         1       Senator Seabrook, you wish to be recorded in the

         2       negative on Calendar Number 462?  Okay.

         3                      The Secretary will read the

         4       results again.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 7.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      The Secretary will read Calendar

         9       Number 463.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       463, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        12       Print 3980, an act to amend the Environmental

        13       Conservation Law, in relation to centrally

        14       fueled fleets.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Skelos.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

        18       message at the desk?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        23       Calendar Number 463.  All those in favor signify

        24       by saying aye.

        25                      (Response of "Aye".)







                                                             
2136

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The message is accepted.

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

         5       Explanation.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Marcellino, an explanation of Calendar Number

         8       463 has been requested by Senator Oppenheimer.

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yeah.  The

        10       Governor has proposed in his emergency budget a

        11       plan to repeal the clean fuel fleet mandate on

        12       owners of heavy -

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm sorry,

        14       Senator, I don't mean to be impolite but it's

        15       hard to hear you.

        16                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I apologize.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Can we

        18       have a little order in the house, please?

        19       Senators please take their seats, the staff take

        20       their seats.  Conversation taken out of the

        21       chamber.  Thank you.

        22                      Senator Marcellino, for an

        23       explanation.

        24                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  This bill is

        25       basically a repeal -- well, not a budget repeal







                                                             
2137

         1       but a postponement of the clean fuel fleet

         2       mandate on owners of heavy duty vehicle fleets

         3       in the downstate region.  If this mandate is not

         4       postponed, the DEC is required to issue

         5       regulations by May 13th to finalize the whole

         6       process by mid-August of going to clean fuel and

         7       have all municipalities, school districts, park

         8       districts and businesses with trucks that

         9       qualify -- that are over 6,000 tons or 6500 tons

        10       that qualify, have them converted over to clean

        11       fuel.

        12                      The cost estimated by the Council

        13       of School Superintendents, for example, predicts

        14       that the law would cost school districts upwards

        15       of $200 million per year, a 17 percent increase

        16       in statewide expenditures on school district

        17       transportation.  This would more than consume

        18       the Governor's entire proposed school aid

        19       increase for the effective reasons.

        20                      The School Boards Association

        21       estimates an initial cost of $400 million for

        22       school districts to pay for the necessary

        23       infrastructure improvements, that is, fueling

        24       stations which currently don't exist.

        25                      We are asking that in this







                                                             
2138

         1       legislation that we postpone the target date two

         2       years.  In the interim, we will do a study and a

         3       report will be issued to determine the

         4       availability of -- let's see.  Let's use the

         5       exact language in the bill -- "the availability

         6       of fuels, vehicles and infrastructure necessary

         7       to implement the program, the cost of complying

         8       with the program for municipalities, schools,

         9       businesses and other potentially affected fleet

        10       owners and fuel providers and emission benefits

        11       in contribution to attainment of any applicable

        12       health standards."

        13                      The program was initially

        14       indicated as part of the state's Clean Air Act

        15       which was a duplicate of the federal Clean Air

        16       Act program.

        17                      The federal program has been

        18       basically withdrawn and the state's still on the

        19       books forced to implement this program by -

        20       almost immediately by 1998.  The districts

        21       involved -- I can give you some specifics on

        22       it.  I have a thing from the Association of

        23       Towns -- a memo that came from the Association

        24       of Towns.

        25                      For example, it says here that







                                                             
2139

         1       the state legislation is required to revise the

         2       -- New York's SIP.  Absent state legislation,

         3       the DEC is required to implement the CFFP

         4       effective with vehicle model year 1998.  Current

         5       DEC regulations promulgated to implement the

         6       CFFP requires 50 percent of new heavy duty

         7       vehicles to be clean fuel vehicles.  Compliance

         8       with this regulation will be costly to 44 towns

         9       located in the affected area.

        10                      For example, the town of

        11       Hempstead, which is the largest town in the

        12       United States populationwise, has 519 vehicles

        13       affected -- in the affected weight class.  The

        14       town purchases 35 new vehicles each year.  Under

        15       this law, it would have to purchase, you know,

        16       over 250 new vehicles this year.  The town of

        17       Hempstead estimates that the cost to the

        18       taxpayers would be $3.2 million to convert their

        19       fleet and fueling stations to compressed natural

        20       gas in order to comply with the proposed

        21       regulations.

        22                      Similarly, the taxpayers in the

        23       town of Eastchester in Westchester County will

        24       be affected by the cost of implementation of

        25       this program.  The taxpayers of the town of







                                                             
2140

         1       Eastchester will spend more than $150,000 to

         2       comply with this regulation.

         3                      The town of Huntington in Suffolk

         4       County, which I represent, has 63 vehicles in

         5       the targeted weight class and purchases five new

         6       vehicles annually.  The town estimates that it

         7       will cost the taxpayers 1.2 million to convert

         8       their fueling stations and 315 million to

         9       convert the 63 targeted vehicles.

        10                      The town of Ramapo has 36

        11       targeted vehicles and purchases seven new

        12       vehicles each year.  It estimates in excess of

        13       $200,000 to convert their fleet and fueling

        14       facility to compressed natural gas.

        15                      The key thing is it is extremely

        16       expensive.  Benefits to clean air are minimal

        17       and not tossed aside.  We're not throwing aside

        18       the Clean Air Act.  The bill is a means to the

        19       end, not the end.  The plan of the clean fuel

        20       act was a method, a direction to go.  It isn't

        21       the only way to go.  There are many other

        22       methods to attain this act.  The study proposed

        23       will determine some of them and their viability

        24       rather than engaging in a super expensive

        25       program for what could be considered







                                                             
2141

         1       questionable benefit.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Oppenheimer.

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Would the

         5       sponsor yield for a question or two?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Marcellino, do you yield to a question?

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Sure,

         9       absolutely.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Senator yields.

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Senator,

        13       what value do you think -- what will come out of

        14       the study for a program that we knew this

        15       mandate existed from six years ago.  What more

        16       do you think a study would produce?

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Senator, the

        18       study will, one, let us know if there are

        19       facilities available to do this.  I understand

        20       the law has been out there and the requirement

        21       to meet these standards has been there but the

        22       fact of life is budgetarywise, these

        23       municipalities are not prepared to deal with

        24       this.  The fact is your school districts are not

        25       prepared to deal with this.  Your park







                                                             
2142

         1       districts, your sewer districts, anybody or any

         2       district that is required to maintain fleets,

         3       they're not prepared to deal with this.  The

         4       infrastructure doesn't exist.  Pumping stations,

         5       transfer fuel stations don't exist except in

         6       very few locations.

         7                      So practically speaking, those

         8       school districts, for example, that would be

         9       planning their budgets now for a May vote would

        10       immediately have to kick in and take into

        11       consideration the needs and the necessity of

        12       converting their fleet that exists now, whatever

        13       percentages come in immediately, plus building a

        14       fueling station if one doesn't exist for them in

        15       a nearby area, cost prohibitive.  Increasing

        16       property taxes on our residents.  The cost could

        17       be disastrous.

        18                      A study might be a smart way to

        19       go and it might be the way to buy some time so

        20       that we can begin to analyze it, know the

        21       problems, know where we want to go and how we

        22       want to get there and, if possible, get to that

        23       goal of clean air which we all desire.  Nobody

        24       is looking to foul the air.  No one is looking

        25       to lessen the quality of our air by doing this.







                                                             
2143

         1       We're trying to give our municipalities and our

         2       districts an opportunity to plan properly.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Oppenheimer.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  If you

         6       would yield again.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Sure.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Marcellino, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Senator continues to yield.

        13                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  It just

        14       seems that having had six years to do this in,

        15       we -- we probably could have done a study in

        16       that period of time and at this juncture, would

        17       it not be wiser to move ahead with the program

        18       phased in over a long period of time, a slower

        19       phase-in?  What would a study produce?  I think

        20       you're looking for a phase-in, a period of time.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I think you

        22       just asked me that question two seconds ago, if

        23       I'm not mistaken.

        24                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  About how

        25       about phasing it in over a longer period of







                                                             
2144

         1       time?  Starting now, we were -

         2                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  We are doing

         3       exactly what you're saying.  We're giving them

         4       two more years.  We're saying look at it for two

         5       years.  You know it's coming in two years.

         6       You've got to come up with a proposal.  We're

         7       going to look at the proposal from the state

         8       basis.  We're going to ask the DEC to take a

         9       long hard look at this proposal and say, is this

        10       effective?  Is it cost-effective?  We're going

        11       to spends hundreds of millions of dollars to

        12       make this happen.

        13                      According to the School Boards

        14       Association, as I said -- as I read to you in my

        15       very lengthy opening statement, upwards of $200

        16       million a year for the school districts, 17

        17       percent increase in property taxes.  I don't

        18       think anybody can handle that.  I know the

        19       districts in my area that I represent, I'm sure

        20       the districts that you represent, could not

        21       impact and absorb that kind of an expenditure at

        22       this point in time.  If you're saying, should

        23       they have prepared and done this a long time

        24       ago?  I can't argue with that, but the fact is

        25       they didn't and we have to live with the reality







                                                             
2145

         1       now.

         2                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I would

         3       like to ask another question and that is, was

         4       this not the purpose of the bond act that we

         5       passed in November to help us with cleaner air

         6       and was this not the purpose of the petroleum

         7       overcharge funds to help us?  Why are we not

         8       utilizing those funds?

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  One, the

        10       bond act -- yes, the bond act could be used to

        11       offset some of the costs but it's only some, not

        12       all, and we're not sure what those costs exactly

        13       would be at this point in time, anyway.  That's

        14       part of the problem.  We may have some

        15       facilities out there that would impact some

        16       districts positively.  We may not have in most

        17       districts that have to construct.  The cost of

        18       construction in various areas is different.  We

        19       would have to know.  To try to use bond act

        20       money and just say, Yeah, we're going to apply

        21       bond money off to it would be great but we would

        22       be committing money.  We don't know how much and

        23       we don't know how -- you know, when.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Oppenheimer.







                                                             
2146

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  That,

         2       frankly, would be -- as my good colleague down

         3       here just reminded me, that would be part of the

         4       study and should be part of the study to

         5       determine exactly what we need and how much we

         6       have to spend and when.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Oppenheimer.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

        10       Senator.

        11                      On the bond, if I may, please.

        12       To opt out of the clean air program which man

        13       dates upon us a cleaner environment, particular

        14       ly in the Senator and my area which is severe,

        15       severe non-attainment area, one of the worst

        16       areas in the United States, to opt us out of the

        17       requirements of the Clean Air Act for our heavy

        18       duty vehicles which are spewing pollutants and

        19       particulates into the air seems just foolish,

        20       foolhardy and I strongly, strongly intend to

        21       oppose this.

        22                      We have had a long enough time to

        23       look at this.  We have been mandated for six

        24       years now and we haven't done it now and we are

        25       only postponing it two years more because it's a







                                                             
2147

         1       costly thing -- cleaning up our environment is

         2       costly because we have messed it up, and I don't

         3       think we ought to be looking at ways of

         4       circumventing what is the clean air law for this

         5       state.

         6                      So I will be voting against this

         7       and I know the Environmental Planning Lobby is

         8       very unhappy with this also.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      Senator Marcellino.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Without

        13       prolonging this unnecessarily-- but I would like

        14       to just comment.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Hoffmann -

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  We're not

        18       opting out of anything.  This is not an opt out

        19       of the Clean Air Act.  We couldn't do that

        20       anyway if we tried.  This is a reasonable,

        21       responsible approach.  It's all well and good to

        22       tell a school district that comprises umpteen

        23       thousand families, Well, you know, shame on

        24       you.  You didn't do what you were supposed to do

        25       six years ago and we're going to punish you for







                                                             
2148

         1       it and we're going to increase your taxes and

         2       raise your fees and cost your district millions

         3       of dollars because you were bad people.

         4                      Now, I don't know about you,

         5       Senator, but I can't do that to districts.  I

         6       don't think we have a right to do that to the

         7       districts.  We're not fouling the air.  We're

         8       cleaning the air up.  We didn't have the

         9       California LEV program in place six years ago.

        10       We do now which improves emissions standards.

        11       We're working on that system and that's doing

        12       better.  Our air is getting cleaner down here

        13       and we haven't gone to clean air fuel -- clean

        14       fuel vehicles.  We are not -- and please don't

        15       repeat that because it's wrong.  It's a flat out

        16       misstatement.  We are not opting out of the

        17       Clean Air Act requirements.  We're asking that

        18       we do this in an intelligent way and spend some

        19       time and some money to study the problem and

        20       look at it and give these districts a chance to

        21       react in a proper way.

        22                      You're talking about school

        23       districts, towns, cities, businesses, all

        24       throughout the state of New York and -- all

        25       throughout the state of New York that have to







                                                             
2149

         1       comply and, if we don't do it correctly, we

         2       could impact them in a tremendously negative

         3       manner and take this very nice upturn we have in

         4       our economy and blow it right out the window.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Hoffmann.

         7                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Yes.  This is

         8       a very interesting issue and I -- I had one or

         9       two questions for the sponsor.  I wonder if

        10       Senator Marcellino would be so kind as to yield.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Marcellino, do you yield to a question from

        13       Senator Hoffmann?

        14                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  My pleasure.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Senator

        18       Marcellino, I know that you chair the

        19       Environmental Conservation Committee in this

        20       chamber with great passion and your commitment

        21       to this particular piece of legislation is

        22       commendable, and I too frequently find myself in

        23       a position where I recognize that people in my

        24       portion of the state or even in some minute

        25       segment of the Senate District I represent may







                                                             
2150

         1       differ from a larger mandate imposed upon them,

         2       but generally I expect our Environmental

         3       Conservation Committee to give us an opportunity

         4       to air such an issue in a thoughtful way, and

         5       I'm just wondering if you could explain to me

         6       the timing with which this measure has been

         7       introduced and brought to the floor.  I'm a

         8       little confused by this.  When was this bill

         9       first introduced, Senator Marcellino?

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  This

        11       particular bill, it's my understanding, was

        12       introduced today.  It's been part of the

        13       negotiations between the Senate and the Assembly

        14       and the Governor on the continuing budget

        15       resolution that we're doing today.  This is part

        16       of that program.  This is language to implement

        17       it.  However, as a member, you, of course, know,

        18       that there is a bill in committee that I sponsor

        19       to do very much the same thing and repeal this

        20       act and it's been there for some time.

        21                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr. -- Mr.

        22       President, I wonder if Senator Marcellino would

        23       yield for another question.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Senator continues to yield.







                                                             
2151

         1                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Senator

         2       Marcellino, you have piqued my curiosity.  You

         3       say there is a bill in the committee which you

         4       chair and I would know this and it's been there

         5       for some time.  Why would I know this, Senator

         6       Marcellino?  Has this ever been brought before

         7       the Committee?  I see Senator Marcellino is

         8       conferring with counsel.

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  We'll get

        10       you the bill number, Senator, and we'll make

        11       sure you know that the bill was put into the

        12       Committee and it's been submitted.  It has

        13       sponsors and perhaps if you would like to read

        14       it, I'll send it to you.

        15                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  It has

        16       sponsors?

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Oh, yeah.

        18                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Big-time

        19       sponsors?

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Well, heavy

        21       weights, anyway.

        22                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Would Senator

        23       Marcellino add one more bit of clarification in

        24       the form of an answer?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2152

         1       Marcellino, do you want to disclose what the

         2       heavyweight means?  No, I'm just -

         3                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Besides

         4       yourself, Senator Marcellino, to whom was this

         5       bill offered for sponsorship?  Could you explain

         6       that to those other members of the Environmental

         7       Conservation Committee who might have enjoyed

         8       supporting you in this effort?

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I don't

        10       recall, quite frankly, Senator.

        11                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you,

        12       Senator Marcellino.  I appreciate that.

        13                      Mr. President, I realize that

        14       Senator Marcellino is attempting to clarify on

        15       relatively short notice a very complex issue and

        16       the fact that he is an excellent reader and was

        17       able to carefully digest and articulate the

        18       words on a piece of paper handed to him just

        19       moments ago, I think is commendable.  It is,

        20       however, not the mark of good legislation and it

        21       is not a sufficient reason for those of us who

        22       care about the environment to want to vote for

        23       this measure.

        24                      I have been a member of the

        25       Environmental Conservation Committee in the New







                                                             
2153

         1       York State Senate for some 13 years, and I am

         2       appalled that a matter of this significance is

         3       not even being discussed, much less brought to a

         4       vote, within the confines of that committee.

         5                      Surely we could have sat and had

         6       some reasonable understanding of what this

         7       measure means but to be forced tonight as we're

         8       about to adjourn for several days for religious

         9       holidays to be confronted with a measure with so

        10       little information is really an affront to our

        11       intelligence and to the dignity of the people in

        12       this state, and I would hope that Senator

        13       Marcellino and the Majority in this house would

        14       consider laying this measure aside so that it

        15       can be reviewed and voted on in a more

        16       thoughtful way.

        17                      Absent that choice, I will have

        18       no alternative, regardless of how meritorious

        19       the measure may be, except to vote in the

        20       negative on it and I would hope that many of my

        21       colleagues would do the same, but that type of

        22       action is not what we should be here for.  We

        23       should be here for an intelligent analysis of

        24       what is a tremendously significant environmental

        25       question so that we can go home with a clear







                                                             
2154

         1       conscience and say that we have arrived at an

         2       appropriate, rather than a political solution.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Gold.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  Mr.

         6       President, I'll be very brief, but what is

         7       happening here now is symptomatic of something

         8       that's been going on in the last couple of years

         9       to an extent which we ought to say something

        10       about.

        11                      I do not believe that it is a

        12       world of black and white.  I think that there

        13       are a lot of gray areas and in finding those

        14       gray areas, dealing with them, intelligent

        15       people have to draw lines and this Legislature

        16       has always dealt with some linkage between

        17       issues and in most years in our history, the

        18       linkage has made some sense.

        19                      We are now getting into an area

        20       with this Governor, who I like, where he makes

        21       linkage and this house makes linkage of issues

        22       which have nothing to do with one another and

        23       this is considered now a good political

        24       bargain.  You want something, so today we're

        25       going to make a linkage because you want







                                                             
2155

         1       something and I need something, whether they

         2       make any sense or not.

         3                      We came into session today at

         4       11:00 o'clock.  Everybody in this building knew

         5       more or less what the agendas were going to be.

         6       We wound up standing at ease for a good part of

         7       the day while there were negotiations and

         8       bickering over things which really don't deal

         9       with the major issues that we came to session

        10       today to deal with and this is a perfect

        11       example.

        12                      Senator Hoffmann's remarks are

        13       right on target.  Senator Oppenheimer's remarks

        14       are right on target and this is an issue which

        15       we should deal with.  It's a question of whether

        16       there's a delay, how much of a delay, what time

        17       delay and that is a significant issue to deal

        18       with but it shouldn't be something that gets

        19       thrown at us because three men spent most of the

        20       day today behind closed doors -- because I don't

        21       think there was any open meeting -- discussing

        22       what should or should not be part of a debate on

        23       budget issues, and I think that the only way

        24       we're going to maintain our own sense of dignity

        25       -- because every day it's going to be something







                                                             
2156

         1       that affects every one of us on both sides of

         2       this aisle -- we have to stand up and say that

         3       there are legitimate issues before this

         4       Legislature.  Let's deal with them without

         5       linking in -- and I'm using that in the politest

         6       sense -- other issues which are done so in an

         7       inappropriate manner.

         8                      I intend to vote to support

         9       Senator Oppenheimer and the comments made by

        10       Senator Hoffmann and I will vote in the

        11       negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        15       President, will the sponsor yield just to one

        16       question?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Marcellino, do you yield to one question?  The

        19       Senator yields.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I agree with

        21       many of the comments made by my colleagues,

        22       Senator Hoffmann, Senator Oppenheimer and

        23       Senator Gold but, Senator, could you tell me

        24       what the current status of compliance is so that

        25       I can make some kind of evaluation based on what







                                                             
2157

         1       you tell me that they've made some good faith

         2       effort to comply with this deadline and what

         3       we're doing is extending a period of time in

         4       order to give them greater time so that their

         5       good faith effort can reach its conclusion?

         6                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  It's my

         7       understanding, Senator, the compliance is slim

         8       and none and slim just left town.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So they've

        10       done nothing to comply knowing that there was a

        11       six-year deadline and now we're going to extend

        12       it for two years when they haven't shown any

        13       good faith to comply with this.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Dollinger, are you asking Senator Marcellino to

        16       yield to a second question?

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I am, indeed,

        18       Mr. President.  I apologize.

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  That's okay

        20       because, Senator -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Senator yields.

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  -- if we

        24       were talking about your child or my child who

        25       was misbehaving, we would go over and say, You







                                                             
2158

         1       know, you did something wrong and you've got to

         2       pay a penalty and maybe you go to your room

         3       without television for two hours or you get a

         4       little pop on the bottom and you say, Look,

         5       don't do it again.  That's a bad thing.  You

         6       can't do that to a school district.  You can't

         7       do that to a municipality.  There's millions of

         8       people who are innocent people who have nothing

         9       to do with this decision to comply or not to

        10       comply.  It's bigger than that and I'm sure you

        11       understand that.  I'm sure Senator Gold under

        12       stands that and Senator Oppenheimer understands

        13       that, and Senator Hoffmann understands that.

        14                      I apologize if I was flip

        15       before.  I didn't mean to be, but the idea is

        16       these districts have not got the fiscal ability

        17       to comply at the present time.  That's why you

        18       have a list here, the New York State School

        19       Boards Association, the Private School Bus

        20       Contractors, the Public -- Car Public Affair,

        21       New York Association of Pupil Transporters, the

        22       National Association of Pupil Transporters,

        23       Petroleum Council, the Association of Towns, New

        24       York State Council of School Superintendents,

        25       New York Association of Counties, the Empire







                                                             
2159

         1       State Petroleum Association, the Coalition of

         2       the Big Five Schools, New York City Legislative

         3       Office, all are for this repealer because they

         4       don't have the ability, the localities,

         5       municipalities and businesses involved do not

         6       have the ability to do it now.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Can I just

         8       ask one other -- will Senator Marcellino yield?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Marcellino, do you yield to another question?

        11                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Sure, if it

        12       would help.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Senator yields.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator

        16       Marcellino, if they don't have the money now,

        17       where are they going to find it two years from

        18       now to do all this?

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  That's what

        20       the study is designed to help do, Senator.

        21       Quite frankly, that's the honest way to answer.

        22       This should have been done some time ago.  I

        23       agree with you.  If we're talking about

        24       reforming the negotiation process, this chamber

        25       passed the reform bill.  The Majority over here







                                                             
2160

         1       -- and maybe we were joined by some of you, I

         2       don't remember -- but we passed the reform

         3       message which would change the process of

         4       negotiating budgets.  We haven't heard anything

         5       from the other chamber.  They haven't proposed a

         6       thing.  I don't mean to be partisan, far be it

         7       for me, but the name of the game here is we need

         8       the time to look at this thing effectively,

         9       efficiently and appropriately to do this right.

        10       If you toss it on them, you're going to have a

        11       whole bunch of districts and businesses that are

        12       going to go, some out of business.  Some are

        13       going to pick up and move.  Some districts are

        14       going to be raising property taxes.  You're

        15       going to have to go home and answer to that and

        16       I don't think we want to.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                      Just on the bill, briefly.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Dollinger, on the bill.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I understand

        23       Senator Marcellino's passionate argument for an

        24       extension of time but it seems to me there are

        25       elected bodies that have chosen not to comply,







                                                             
2161

         1       chosen not to start the process of compliance

         2       and let's not forget, as Senator Oppenheimer

         3       pointed out, why this was done.

         4                      This is done because there are

         5       people who have health problems related to

         6       unclear air.  That's why this was done.  This

         7       has been talked about for 20 years and every

         8       time we sit down to do something, it's "We need

         9       more time.  We need more time."  It's not just a

        10       question of government spending more money.

        11       They may have to do that, but think about all of

        12       those people who are inhaling dirty air.  Think

        13       about areas in our ozone that are being

        14       depleted.  It seems to me that's the reason why

        15       it's in place in the first place.  To turn our

        16       back on it and postpone it again for two years

        17       when there's been no effort at good faith -

        18       Senator, if you came to me and said they already

        19       started to spend the money.  They're on their

        20       way, I would be more sympathetic to that

        21       argument.  To say that they've done nothing and

        22       now we're going to give them two more years,

        23       even though it doesn't affect my region of the

        24       state, I think is bad policy.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
2162

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Paterson, do you wish to explain your vote?

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        10       we would like a slow roll call on this.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are there

        12       five members in chamber who would like to?

        13       Please signify by standing.  I'm counting five.

        14                      The Secretary will call the slow

        15       roll call.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Abate.

        17                      SENATOR ABATE:  No.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Alesi.

        19                      SENATOR ALESI:  Yes.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Breslin.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Bruno.

        23                      (Affirmative indication)

        24                      Senator Connor.

        25                      (Negative indication)







                                                             
2163

         1                      Senator Cook.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         6       Dollinger.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Senator Gentile.

        11                      SENATOR GENTILE:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Gonzalez, excused.

        15                      Senator Goodman.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Hannon.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Hoffmann.

        20                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  No.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland.

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Johnson.

        24                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Aye.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kruger.







                                                             
2164

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      Senator Kuhl.

         3                      SENATOR KUHL:  Aye.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lachman.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator Lack.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Aye.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Larkin.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Here.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Leibell.

        13                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Leichter.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Levy.

        17                      SENATOR LEVY:  Aye.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Libous.

        19                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Maltese.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Marcellino.

        23                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Aye.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

        25                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Aye.







                                                             
2165

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         2       Markowitz.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator Maziarz.

         5                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Meier.

         7                      SENATOR MEIER:  Yes.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        11       Montgomery.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Nanula.

        14                      SENATOR NANULA:  No.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nozzolio.

        16                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Aye.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

        18                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Onorato, to explain his vote.

        21                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Mr. President,

        22       I'm going to vote against this bill because I

        23       represent a district in New York City that's

        24       very, very heavily affected by this bill.  I

        25       have one of the highest emphysema- and







                                                             
2166

         1       lung-related diseases in the entire city of New

         2       York in my district and any further delay in

         3       implementing a Clean Air Act on our part is

         4       unconscionable.

         5                      We are now in the process of

         6       suing the tobacco industry which we know causes

         7       cancer.  We certainly know that the emissions

         8       are causing lung-related diseases to all of the

         9       residents of the cities that are affected by the

        10       Clean Air Act and any further delay perhaps may

        11       wind up with the state of New York being the

        12       recipient of lawsuits claiming the health bills

        13       that may have to be paid because of the fact

        14       that we have not implemented the Clean Air Act

        15       and I am, therefore, voting no.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Onorato will be recorded in the negative.

        18                      Continue the slow roll call.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        20       Oppenheimer.

        21                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Paterson.

        25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.







                                                             
2167

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Paterson, to explain his vote.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Only to

         4       explain that for the reasons stated by Senator

         5       Onorato in his explanation and by Senator

         6       Oppenheimer in her debate and by the

         7       Environmental Planning Lobby which strongly

         8       opposes this bill, I vote no.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson will be recorded in the negative.

        11                      Continue the slow roll call.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

        13                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

        15                      SENATOR RATH:  Yes.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rosado.

        17                      SENATOR ROSADO:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        19                      SENATOR SALAND:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Sampson.

        21                      SENATOR SAMPSON:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago.

        23                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  No.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seabrook.

        25                      SENATOR SEABROOK:  No.







                                                             
2168

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

         2                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Aye.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Skelos.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Yes.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

         6                      SENATOR SMITH:  No.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

         8                      SENATOR SPANO:  Aye.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Stachowski.

        11                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford.

        13                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Aye.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stavisky.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Trunzo.

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Tully.

        19                      SENATOR TULLY:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella.

        21                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Volker.

        23                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Yes.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Waldon.

        25                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,







                                                             
2169

         1       briefly to explain my vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Waldon, to explain his vote.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  This is a money

         5       issue.  We're talking about the bottom line of

         6       the business community in some form or fashion,

         7       and when I read on a daily basis about the

         8       warming of the planet and what the ozone layer

         9       -- what is happening to the ozone layer, I have

        10       to believe that my grandchildren and my great

        11       grandchildren deserve a better shake than what

        12       we will give them if we were to pass this

        13       legislation and it were to become law in this

        14       state.

        15                      So this vote is against the

        16       bottom line but for the children, and I vote no.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Waldon will be recorded in the negative.

        19                      Continue the slow roll call.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

        21                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Aye.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       absentees.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Breslin.

        25                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  No.







                                                             
2170

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Gold.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  No.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Goodman.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      Senator Kruger.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Senator Lachman.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      Senator LaValle.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Leichter.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator Maltese.

        16                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Aye.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        18       Markowitz.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Montgomery.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Padavan.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Stavisky.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2171

         1                      Ayes 31, nays 18.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Senator Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you call

         6       up Calendar Number 464.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read Calendar Number 464.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       464, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly

        11       Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6545, an

        12       act -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

        16       message of necessity at the desk?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        21       Calendar Number 464.  All those in favor signify

        22       by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)

        24                      Opposed, nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2172

         1                      The message is accepted.

         2                      The Secretary will read the last

         3       section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Senator Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        14       would you call up Calendar Number 461.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read Calendar Number 461.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       461, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        19       Print 3979, an act making appropriations for the

        20       support of government.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Skelos.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

        24       message at the desk?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is







                                                             
2173

         1       a message.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

         5       Calendar Number 461.  All those in favor signify

         6       by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      The message is accepted.

        11                      The Secretary will read the last

        12       section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 45.  This

        14       act shall take effect April 1.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Skelos.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  How about

        23       Calendar 465.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read Calendar Number 465.







                                                             
2174

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       465, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3779, an

         3       act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation

         4       to providing payments to certain public

         5       employees.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         9       message at the desk?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        14       Calendar Number 465.  All those in favor signify

        15       by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye".)

        17                      Opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The message is accepted.

        20                      The Secretary will read the last

        21       section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
2175

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Explanation has

         4       been asked.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Trunzo, an explanation of Calendar Number 465,

         7       Senate Print 3779, has been requested by Senator

         8       Gold.

         9                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

        10       this legislation is a post-negotiated agreement

        11       between the Public Employees Federation and the

        12       Governor's office regarding the agreement

        13       between the Governor and PEF regarding the

        14       employees of the professional, scientific and

        15       technical unit of the state work force to elect

        16       to cash in on up to two days pay or two days

        17       leave for the fiscal year 1997-98 and also for

        18       fiscal year 1988-89.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        20       any Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Hearing none, the Secretary will

        23       read the last section.

        24                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold on one

        25       second.  I'm sorry.







                                                             
2176

         1                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        13       would you please lay aside Calendars Number 416,

        14       417, 427 and 428.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendars

        16       Number 416, 417, 428 and 428 are laid aside for

        17       the day.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there any

        19       housekeeping at the desk?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        21       no housekeeping.  That completes the calendar

        22       for the day, Senator Skelos.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        24       would you please recognize Senator Dollinger.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll







                                                             
2177

         1       move to the order of motions to discharge.

         2                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         3       Dollinger.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you

         5       very much, Mr. President.

         6                      I have a motion to discharge at

         7       the desk.  I would waive its reading and ask

         8       that I be heard on the motion.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Dollinger, we'll ask the Secretary to read the

        11       title of the motion to discharge to put it on

        12       the floor.

        13                      The Secretary will read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        15       Dollinger, Senate Print 3318, an act enacting

        16       the Assault Weapon Prohibition and Licensing Act

        17       of 1997.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       motion is before -- the discharge is before the

        20       house.

        21                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        22       Dollinger to explain the motion.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you

        24       very much, Mr. President.

        25                      I also thank the Deputy Majority







                                                             
2178

         1       Leader -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Excuse me

         3       just a minute, Senator Dollinger.  It's a little

         4       noisy in here.  We have a lot of members moving

         5       around, a lot of staff moving around.  Could we

         6       settle down and then I think we'll have the

         7       appropriate silence for your discussion of the

         8       motion.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I would just

        10       caution the President.  I can remember the -

        11       wielding the gavel on this debate on other

        12       occasions has proved to be costly to the gavel.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Dollinger, I have a new gavel at the desk, one

        15       that I'm informed is unbreakable.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you

        17       very much, Mr. President.

        18                      I'll be very brief.  I know the

        19       hour is late.  I understand the rules of the

        20       Senate and appreciate those rules which require

        21       that this motion come before us today, this day

        22       before we leave for religious holidays when

        23       we've completed our business but, Mr. President,

        24       this is a critical moment.  This is a critical

        25       moment for the people of this state.  This is an







                                                             
2179

         1       opportunity to make law, to make history, to

         2       make a landmark decision that will protect the

         3       people of this state.

         4                      We already have before us a bill

         5       that is the Senate version of a bill that has

         6       passed the Assembly to create a state ban on

         7       semiautomatic assault weapons and it seems to me

         8       that in this pivotal moment, this moment when

         9       we've got a chance to make law, we ought to take

        10       it.  We ought to approve this motion to

        11       discharge so that the bill can come before us

        12       for debate.

        13                      I want to tell everyone here,

        14       you've heard my arguments in favor of this ban

        15       and this motion to discharge before, but let me

        16       tell you something that I learned today and

        17       something that I'm promising you today I will

        18       do.

        19                      Today I listened to a man

        20       describe the death of his daughter on the Long

        21       Island Rail Road.  Her name was Amy Locicero

        22       Federico, and I watched a man put a picture out

        23       of his daughter about age 22 to 25 and tell the

        24       story of her death, and I promise you one

        25       thing.  I'm going to find a bill in every single







                                                             
2180

         1       bill that I can find that I can attach this as

         2       an amendment to and every opportunity I have to

         3       bring this motion before this house.

         4                      I vow that I will find a way to

         5       not only get a debate on the merits of this if

         6       this motion fails, but I promise you I am going

         7       to find a bill to put this on.  I'm going to

         8       come back time and time again.  I will not let

         9       the voice of Jake Locicero still be still in my

        10       mind.  It's a powerful voice.  It's a voice that

        11       requires action.  He asked for that action today

        12       and I will not rest until I can find a way to

        13       make this bill law.

        14                      I urge you to support this motion

        15       to discharge.  I urge you to vote in favor of

        16       the motion because this is the chance -- and

        17       don't make any bones about it.  I know

        18       everyone's thinking, this is just another one of

        19       those motions.  I'll be able to explain it to

        20       everyone.  I'm not going to give you that

        21       opportunity.  I'm going to tell people that this

        22       is the chance.  The hour is today.  The chance

        23       is now.  It's our time.  This is the time to do

        24       the right thing.  Now is the time to do the

        25       right thing.  Put this ban in place.  Take the







                                                             
2181

         1       streets of this state and make them safer.  The

         2       police want it.  Your constituents want it.

         3       They want it done now.  Vote for this motion and

         4       we can do it now and we can stop the bloodshed

         5       on our streets.

         6                      Please vote in favor of this

         7       motion for Amy Locicero Federico.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         9       any other member wishing to speak on the

        10       motion?

        11                      Senator Montgomery.

        12                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

        13       President, just briefly on this motion.

        14                      I certainly want to compliment

        15       and applaud my colleague from Rochester for

        16       bringing forth this motion and I'm sure, if we

        17       could just have the opportunity to debate this

        18       -- we have enough members in this house who

        19       feel like he does, like I do, like many of us do

        20       about the problem that he is addressing -- he

        21       wishes to address through this legislation and

        22       that is we want to reduce crime.  We want to

        23       save our young people.  We know that having guns

        24       in the hands of children is the most dangerous

        25       thing to people in this state and the







                                                             
2182

         1       availability and the accessibility of these

         2       weapons for youngsters, for people who are prone

         3       to participate in criminal activities, is what

         4       drives the problem and we know that we are going

         5       to be faced -- if we don't do something to stem

         6       this tide and to correct this problem, we're

         7       going to be faced with a burden, a fiscal burden

         8       that the state will not be able to withstand in

         9       terms of the attempt to expand and create enough

        10       beds so that everyone who is caught with a

        11       weapon, everyone who attempts to use a weapon

        12       eventually ends up needing a prison cell.  We

        13       cannot afford that, plus the lives of people are

        14       at stake.

        15                      So let's, for one time, end the

        16       history of this wonderful body.  Let's have an

        17       opportunity to debate the one piece of

        18       legislation that will, in fact, without question

        19       and without any reservation, will address the

        20       issue of crime on our streets and will save

        21       lives.  We know that this is an attempt to save

        22       lives of citizens in our state.

        23                      So, Senator Dollinger, I support

        24       this resolution.  I only hope that we are now at

        25       the brink at this hour, even though it is late,







                                                             
2183

         1       I'm sure that it's not too late and there's

         2       still plenty of time left in this day that we

         3       could discuss and debate this legislation if we

         4       all agree on this motion to discharge.

         5                      So I support it and thank you,

         6       Mr. President, for allowing me to speak on this

         7       motion.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Paterson.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        11       would you note the time for me?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I believe

        13       it's about 7:54 -- excuse me -- 6:54.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, the

        15       President is always ahead.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  My vision

        17       is a little distorted because my stomach is

        18       telling me something, Mr. President.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Because I

        20       think it would be a good time to note in the

        21       record that I would like to thank -- in addition

        22       to Senator Dollinger who's fought for this

        23       legislation for a number of years and has been

        24       very vigorous in his advocacy and made a very

        25       fine presentation, I would like to thank the







                                                             
2184

         1       Majority.  I would like to thank the Majority

         2       for allowing this motion to come before the

         3       floor today under the Senate rules.  We're also

         4       going to have some motions on April 1st and

         5       April 2nd which relate to a number of state

         6       issues that we feel are critical and policies we

         7       would like to be changed.

         8                      So in this spirit of the holidays

         9       and spirit of good will and with greatest

        10       brevity, especially with respect to Mr.

        11       President's problem, I would like to just thank

        12       the Majority.  That's really all I have to say.

        13       I'm not going to talk for the rest of the

        14       session.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah.  I would

        19       just ask if Senator Dollinger would yield to a

        20       question.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Dollinger, do you yield to a question From

        23       Senator gold?

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, Mr.

        25       President.







                                                             
2185

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Senator yields.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Dollinger,

         4       I don't really understand the purpose of this

         5       bill.  As we stand here now, I have no training,

         6       Senator Dollinger, in firearms.  I have never

         7       taken a course.  I have never fired an assault

         8       weapon but, Senator Dollinger, I can leave here

         9       in my car right now and within ten minutes find

        10       a place and another ten minutes own an assault

        11       weapon and ammunition and walk out on the street

        12       with it, even if I wasn't sober.  Are you

        13       telling me that if this bill passes, I can't do

        14       that?

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's -

        16       well, assuming, Senator, that we have a chance

        17       to debate it and the Majority of this house

        18       passed it -- the Assembly has already passed it

        19       -- I'll carry it down to Governor Pataki's

        20       desk.  He can sign it right there and that's, in

        21       fact, the case.  If that happens tonight, as all

        22       those other bills are making their way down

        23       tonight, Senator, by 8:00 o'clock -- by 8:00

        24       o'clock, we could actually be in a position

        25       where at some time in the future it would be







                                                             
2186

         1       against the law do that.  That's correct.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

         3       yield to a question?

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I would be

         5       glad to, Mr. President.

         6                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I don't

         7       like to admit this in public but, I mean, I

         8       don't even have any money in my money clip, but

         9       I do have a credit card and if your bill doesn't

        10       pass, I think I can take my credit card, my lack

        11       of experience, my no knowledge, drive ten

        12       minutes and buy an assault weapon.  You want to

        13       stop me from doing that?

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's

        15       exactly correct, Mr. President.  I want to stop

        16       that.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  One last question,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        20       do you continue to yield?

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will

        22       continue to yield.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Senator continues to yield.

        25                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Dollinger,







                                                             
2187

         1       I and many others have heard you and other

         2       members of this house debating this terrible

         3       disease called one-house bills this year, last

         4       year.  Did you say that this bill that you're

         5       moving to discharge has actually passed the

         6       Assembly so that if we handled it and passed it,

         7       it would not be a one-house bill; it would not

         8       be a showman's piece.  It would be something

         9       that actually could become law?

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through you,

        11       Mr. President.  This bill has passed the

        12       Assembly.  This bill, with 31 votes from this

        13       chamber, goes down to the Governor.  The

        14       Governor of this state -- I would just point out

        15       to you, Senator, the Governor of this state has

        16       promised to sign a bill banning assault weapons

        17       in New York State.  So I assume, like all those

        18       other promises he made in 1994, he'll keep this

        19       promise, sign that bill.

        20                      Senator Gold, as I said, we could

        21       probably be down in his office at quarter after

        22       7:00 to have the bill signed.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, if we

        24       don't do that, I would be shocked.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there







                                                             
2188

         1       any other Senator wishing to speak?

         2                      Senator Abate.

         3                      SENATOR ABATE:  Very briefly.  I

         4       also stand in support of this motion to

         5       discharge.  I can't think of a better reason to

         6       support this motion than to keep weapons such as

         7       these out of the hands of Senator Gold.

         8       (Laughter)

         9                      For that reason, I think

        10       Republican and Democrats alike should support

        11       this motion to discharge, but seriously -

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  I thought you were

        13       serious.

        14                      SENATOR ABATE:  And even more

        15       seriously, these weapons are weapons of choice

        16       for drug traffickers and street gangs and

        17       paramilitary extremist groups.  These weapons

        18       are capable of rapid fire.  They don't even need

        19       to be aimed.  They can be sprayed and innocent

        20       people are killed.  They're not for sporting.

        21       These are weapons designed to effectively kill

        22       as many people as efficiently as possible.

        23                      So we have to ask ourselves,

        24       Republicans and Democrats alike, what are we

        25       afraid of when we keep this bill in committee,







                                                             
2189

         1       not allowing it to be debated?  Aren't we

         2       letting down our constituents?

         3                      If you look at the polls, nine

         4       out of ten people support sensible gun control.

         5       Police and law enforcement throughout this state

         6       are begging us to do the responsible thing

         7       because they're being outnumbered.  They are

         8       risking their lives.  They can't protect

         9       citizens throughout this state because there is

        10       not a ban on assault weapons.  We talk all the

        11       time about being tough and smart about crime.

        12       How can we even pretend to be tough about crime

        13       if we're allowing proliferation of assault

        14       weapons on our street?

        15                      Let's do the right thing.  Let's

        16       join together.  Let's save other lives by

        17       supporting this motion to discharge.  If we do

        18       that, we will take a giant step forward to

        19       making our streets safer.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      Senator Skelos, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        24       on this procedural motion, I'm going to ask for

        25       a slow roll call.







                                                             
2190

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are there

         2       five members in the chamber who are requesting a

         3       slow roll call?  Please stand.  There are five.

         4                      The Secretary will call the roll

         5       slowly.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Abate.

         8                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Alesi.

        10                      SENATOR ALESI:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Breslin.

        12                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Yes.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno.

        14                      (Negative indication)

        15                      Senator Connor.

        16                      (Affirmative indication)

        17                      Senator Cook, excused.

        18                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Dollinger.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  To explain my

        22       vote.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Dollinger, to explain his vote.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The







                                                             
2191

         1       opportunity to debate this bill is one we should

         2       not pass up.  It's one that we have an

         3       opportunity now to do.  We can make law.  Don't

         4       -- no bones about it.  Here's the chance.  Step

         5       right up, one for a quarter, your chance to make

         6       law.

         7                      There may be others who want to

         8       characterize this in a particular fashion but

         9       this is the only chance that we have today to

        10       make this bill into law, and I would strongly

        11       suggest that everyone vote in favor of this

        12       motion to discharge.

        13                      Thank you, Mr. President.  I'm

        14       voting in the affirmative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.

        17                      Continue to call the roll slowly.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Gentile.

        21                      SENATOR GENTILE:  Yes.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gold.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        24       just to explain my vote.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
2192

         1       Gold, to explain his vote.

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  I want to express

         3       my admiration for this to Senator Skelos and,

         4       Senator Dollinger, don't feel badly.  The reason

         5       I'm expressing my admiration for Senator Skelos

         6       is because he is a skilled, bright, intelligent

         7       leader who knows how to kill an issue in a way

         8       which perhaps will be less embarrassing for his

         9       party but, Senator, I don't know what we

        10       accomplished by that.  It is really silliness.

        11                      If this is an issue where the

        12       members of your party believe that they are

        13       reflecting their constituencies by voting

        14       against this or by holding back the bill, then

        15       let them be here and let them put the bill out,

        16       proudly cast a vote in the negative, but this is

        17       not a nonsense issue.  This is one of the

        18       serious issues of our time.

        19                      Senator, I won't go through the

        20       history of my buying an AK 47 within ten minutes

        21       of the Capitol or buying a Tech 9 in Florida and

        22       bringing it to New York and what is going on

        23       with guns in America, and I know all the

        24       nonsense arguments about guns don't kill people,

        25       criminals do, et cetera, et cetera, but if your







                                                             
2193

         1       people believe that, Senator Skelos, let them

         2       come to the floor.  Let them put this bill out

         3       and let's vote it.

         4                      The one thing I can say for the

         5       people on my side who are here and who have

         6       stayed, even though everybody knew that at some

         7       point today we would handle this motion and some

         8       people have left, the only thing I can say to

         9       the people who are here and who are supporting

        10       it is, God bless you.  You understand the

        11       seriousness of this issue and you are here to

        12       put your money where your mouth is.

        13                      I vote absolutely in support of

        14       this motion.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Gold will be recorded in the affirmative.

        17                      Continue to call the slow roll

        18       call.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Gonzalez,

        20       excused.

        21                      Senator Goodman.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      Senator Hannon.

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      Senator Hoffmann.







                                                             
2194

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      Senator Johnson.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator Kruger.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Kuhl.

         9                      SENATOR KUHL:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lachman.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Lack.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Larkin.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator LaValle.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Senator Leibell.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Leichter.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Levy.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Libous.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2195

         1                      Senator Maltese.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Marcellino.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      Senator Marchi.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      Senator Markowitz.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Senator Maziarz.

        10                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  No.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Meier.

        12                      SENATOR MEIER:  No.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Mendez.

        14                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Yes.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        16       Montgomery.

        17                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nanula.

        19                      SENATOR NANULA:  Aye.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Nozzolio.

        21                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  No.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Onorato.

        23                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Aye.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        25       Oppenheimer.







                                                             
2196

         1                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Explain my

         2       vote.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I must be a

         6       simpleton because I really can't understand what

         7       we're doing here or why anybody would want to

         8       put in a civil society such as a non-military

         9       society these weapons.  I -- it just boggles my

        10       mind.  It was created for war.  It made sense in

        11       war.  It mowed down the maximum people in the

        12       minimum time.  I guess I'm not in favor of war

        13       but at least that seems to have some usage.

        14                      I cannot understand what these

        15       weapons are -- what purpose they serve in our

        16       society and I cannot understand why the other

        17       side of the aisle feels so strongly to protect

        18       this.

        19                      We know that the vast majority of

        20       the population of the state feels very strongly

        21       about banning assault weapons.  It's something

        22       like 85 or 90 percent.  So it can't be

        23       political.  We know that the police are very

        24       strongly supportive of banning these assault

        25       weapons.  We know that if there is a collector







                                                             
2197

         1       out there who collects assault weapons, that

         2       that's -- God bless him.  Let him keep them.  If

         3       he uses them for marksmanship, fine.  We know

         4       that he ought to be able to keep them but -- as

         5       you can see, I'm at a loss for words.  I really

         6       can't understand what these weapons are doing in

         7       a civilian society.

         8                      I'm voting yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Oppenheimer recorded in the affirmative.

        11                      Continue to call the slow roll

        12       call.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Padavan.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Present.

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  No.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Rath.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Senator Rosado.

        22                      SENATOR ROSADO:  Yes.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland.

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      Senator Sampson.







                                                             
2198

         1                      SENATOR SAMPSON:  Yes.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Santiago.

         3                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Yes.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seabrook.

         5                      SENATOR SEABROOK:  Yes.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Seward.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  No.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Smith.

        11                      SENATOR SMITH:  Yes.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Spano.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Stachowski.

        15                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  No.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Senator Stavisky.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Trunzo.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Tully.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Velella.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2199

         1                      Senator Volker.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Waldon.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Waldon, to explain his vote.

         6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         7       much, Mr. President.

         8                      My colleagues, some of you may

         9       have seen a film called The Killing Fields and

        10       in that film, weapons that we're talking about

        11       banning with Senator Dollinger's proposal, were

        12       everywhere.  These weapons are really not for

        13       target practice.  I know better than most

        14       because I spent many hours of my life at the

        15       pistol range, Throgs Neck in the Bronx, at the

        16       pistol range, 69th Regiment Armory in New York

        17       City.  I traveled around the east participating

        18       in pistol matches because I had a keen eye and a

        19       steady hand, and I know what these weapons will

        20       do.

        21                      These are not recreational

        22       devices.  These are killing weapons.  They are

        23       made to kill and to maim and, if you read

        24       anything in the newspapers and magazines which

        25       report the incidents of injuries and deaths







                                                             
2200

         1       resulting from having weapons in the home, you

         2       see all too often that 75 percent of the people

         3       who die are not the burglars but the people who

         4       live in those homes, that people who have these

         5       devices of havoc sometimes lose their children

         6       because they play with these weapons of

         7       destruction and we're playing with life when we

         8       bend to the will of the National Rifle

         9       Association in somebody's bottom line.

        10                      I hate to revisit this time and

        11       time again, but it is somebody's bottom line

        12       which is driving this issue in our chamber.

        13       These weapons are very costly.  Somebody makes

        14       lots of money each time one is sold, even those

        15       which are sold illegally.  It's interesting that

        16       on such an important issue, on such a life and

        17       death issue, there are so few of us in the

        18       chamber.

        19                      We often talk about our respect

        20       for life and we argue abortion issues and when

        21       we argue the positions that we take respective

        22       to abortion in this state.  Why are not all of

        23       the members of the Senate here to talk about

        24       this issue which also results in death?  I think

        25       it is a sin and a shame that we are so two-faced







                                                             
2201

         1       about something that is so destructive as these

         2       weapons.

         3                      I would encourage everyone to

         4       recognize the genius of Senator Dollinger this

         5       time and to support what he's trying to do.

         6                      I think the moral imperative is

         7       that we must vote yes on his proposal, and I

         8       vote aye, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Waldon will be recorded in the affirmative.

        11                      Continue to call the slow roll

        12       call.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       absentees.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        18       DeFrancisco.

        19                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Farley.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Goodman.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Hannon.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2202

         1                      Senator Hoffmann.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Holland.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      Senator Johnson.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      Senator Kruger.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Senator Lachman.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      Senator Lack.

        12                      (There was no response.)

        13                      Senator Larkin.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Senator LaValle.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Senator Leibell.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      Senator Leichter.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Senator Levy.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      Senator Libous.

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      Senator Maltese.







                                                             
2203

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Explain my

         2       vote, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Maltese, to explain his vote.

         5                      SENATOR MALTESE:  I would just

         6       like to comment for a moment on the statement of

         7       my good colleague, Senator Waldon, referring to

         8       the genius of my colleague, Senator Dollinger.

         9                      I think he bemoaned the fact

        10       correctly that the chamber is empty, but I

        11       question the genius of putting in a motion to

        12       discharge on the Wednesday before Holy Thursday

        13       and Good Friday at approximately 7:00 o'clock in

        14       the evening and ensuring the attendance of all

        15       the Senators who had previously made plans and

        16       are on their way home.

        17                      Mr. President, I vote nay.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Maltese will be recorded in the negative.

        20                      Continue to call the slow roll

        21       call.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        23       Marcellino.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Dollinger, you're out of order.  Please sit







                                                             
2204

         1       down.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I understand

         3       that, Mr. President.  So was the other comment.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Marchi.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator Markowitz.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      Senator Padavan.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Senator Rath.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Senator Saland.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Seward.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      Senator Spano.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      Senator Stafford.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Senator Stavisky.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      Senator Trunzo.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Senator Tully.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
2205

         1                      Senator Velella.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Senator Waldon -- excuse me -

         4       Senator Volker.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Senator Wright.

         7                      (There was no response.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         9       the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 18, nays 11.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       motion is defeated.

        14                      Senator Waldon, why do you rise?

        15                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President, I

        16       wish to have my name called to see how my vote

        17       was recorded.  I believe that's in keeping with

        18       procedures of the house.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Waldon is recorded in the affirmative.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Which allows me

        22       to speak at this moment.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That's

        24       not correct, Senator Waldon.  You're not given

        25       the -







                                                             
2206

         1                      SENATOR WALDON:  That's not

         2       correct?

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You're

         4       not given the floor.  Did you wish to change

         5       your vote?  With unanimous consent, you can do

         6       that.

         7                      SENATOR WALDON:  No, I do not

         8       wish to do that, Mr. President.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        10       there being no further business, I move we

        11       adjourn until Tuesday, April 1st, at 3:00 p.m.

        12       sharp -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       motion is to adjourn.  Without objection -

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  -- intervening

        16       days to be legislative days, Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  -- the

        18       Senate stands adjourned.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Paterson, do you have an announcement?

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.  I would

        23       like to announce that on Tuesday, April 1st and

        24       Wednesday, April 2nd, we will offer the other

        25       motions for discharge as is in keeping with the







                                                             
2207

         1       Senate rules as it was just now.

         2                      The motion for discharge offered

         3       by Senator Dollinger was pursuant to the rules

         4       of the Senate.  It was not Senator Dollinger's

         5       choice to raise this now.  It was our rule.  It

         6       comes after the calendar and we will take note

         7       of that in the future.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank you

         9       for your announcement, Senator Paterson.

        10                      The Senate stands adjourned.

        11                      (Whereupon, at 7:19 p.m., the

        12       Senate adjourned.)

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18