Regular Session - March 26, 1997
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 26, 1997
11 11:00 a.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their chairs, staff to find their places.
5 I'd ask everybody in the chamber to rise with me
6 and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance
7 to the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may we
11 bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed. )
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Tuesday, March 25th. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, March 24th,
18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
24 Messages from the Assembly.
25 Messages from the Governor.
2083
1 Reports of standing committees.
2 Reports of select committees.
3 Communications and reports from
4 state officers.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 Senator Marcellino.
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr.
8 President. On page number 27, on behalf of
9 Senator Volker, I offer the following amendments
10 to Calendar Number 441, Senate Print Number
11 1467, and ask that the bill retain its place on
12 the Third Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 amendments to Calendar Number 441 are received
15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
16 the Third Reading Calendar.
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
19 believe there are five privileged resolutions by
20 Senator Tully at the desk. May we please have
21 the titles read and move for their immediate
22 adoption.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
24 will read the titles to the five resolutions.
25 We'll adopt them at one time.
2084
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully,
2 Legislative Resolution paying tribute to the
3 members of Senior Troop 973 upon the occasion of
4 their designation for special commendation on
5 March 26th, 1997;
6 By Senator Tully, Legislative
7 Resolution paying tribute to the members of
8 Cadet Troop 1022 upon the occasion of their
9 designation for special commendation on March
10 26th, 1997;
11 By Senator Tully, Legislative
12 Resolution paying tribute to the members of
13 Cadet Troop 1052, upon the occasion of their
14 designation for special commendation on March
15 26th, 1997;
16 By Senator Tully, Legislative
17 Resolution paying tribute to members of Cadet
18 Troop 1737, upon the occasion of their
19 designation for special commendation March 26th,
20 1997; and
21 By Senator Tully, Legislative
22 Resolution paying tribute to members of Junior
23 Troop 1859, upon the occasion of their
24 designation for special commendation on March
25 26th, 1997.
2085
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
2 recognizes Senator Tully, on the resolutions.
3 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 I rise and ask that we pause in
6 our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets
7 and -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Tully, excuse me for an interruption just a
10 minute. It's a little noisy in the chamber.
11 Can we get some order in the house, please.
12 Have a number of guests, and I'm sure they would
13 like to hear what Senator Tully is about to
14 say.
15 Senator Tully.
16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 I rise and ask that we pause in
19 our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets
20 and senior Girl Scouts from the hamlets of
21 Williston Park, Albertson, Roslyn and Mineola to
22 my rear and up above me. We're privileged to
23 have with us representatives of the Senior Troop
24 973, Cadet Troop 1737, Cadet Troop 1052 -- 1022
25 and Junior Troop 1859. They join us today in
2086
1 celebration of this, the 85th Anniversary of the
2 Girl Scouts.
3 When many of us think about Girl
4 Scouts, one of the first things that pops into
5 our heads are the infamous Girl Scout cookies.
6 However, the Girl Scouts are a lot more than
7 that.
8 Founded in 1812 by Juliet Gordon
9 in Savannah, Georgia, Girl Scouts are an
10 organization with a proud past and a bright
11 future helping girls to become tomorrow's
12 leaders in a fun and healthy atmosphere.
13 There are over 3 million Girl
14 Scouts nationwide and 17,000 in the great county
15 of Nassau, including 36 associations and 1200
16 troops.
17 Throughout all of our district,
18 the Girl Scouts are known and respected for
19 their unparalleled commitment to their
20 community. The spirit of the Girl Scouts
21 promotes the development and growth of young
22 women.
23 Today the Girl Scouts of Nassau
24 County offer a broad range of programs dealing
25 with many contemporary challenges such as
2087
1 choices and "Challenges", a program dealing with
2 drug and alcohol abuse prevention.
3 We all thank you for making our
4 communities better places to live. The Girl
5 Scouts certainly represent a perfect example in
6 citizenry which all of us should follow. Again
7 congratulations on your 85th Anniversary. I
8 thank each and every one of you for joining us
9 today and wish you the best of luck and future
10 success in all that you do.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
14 resolutions? Hearing none, the question is on
15 the resolutions prepared and presented by
16 Senator Tully. All those in favor signify by
17 saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 Opposed nay.
20 (There was no response. )
21 The resolutions are adopted.
22 Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
24 with the consent of the Minority, I just want to
25 notify the members that there is a Calendar
2088
1 Number 457, S. 3864, by Senator Marcellino,
2 concerning the management of sea bass, which has
3 been added to the live calendar and if we could
4 at this time take up the non-controversial
5 calendar.
6 Make substitutions first? If we
7 could have the substitutions made first.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the
9 benefit of the members, the Acting Majority
10 Leader just announced that the active list has
11 been amended by adding Calendar Number 457, so
12 add Calendar Number 457 to your active list. We
13 do have some substitutions at the desk and a
14 standing committee report that we can take up
15 too.
16 I'll ask the Secretary to read
17 the substitutions.
18 THE SECRETARY: On page 25
19 Senator Stafford moves to discharge from the
20 Committee on Finance Assembly Bill Number 1301-A
21 and substitute it for the identical Third
22 Reading Calendar 412.
23 On page 25, Senator Stafford
24 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance
25 Assembly Bill Number 6551 and substitute it for
2089
1 the identical Third Reading Calendar 415.
2 On page 27, Senator Present moves
3 to discharge from the Committee on Local
4 Government Assembly Bill Number 6329 and
5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
6 Calendar 436.
7 And on page 29, Senator LaValle
8 moves to discharge from the Committee on
9 Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number
10 5299 and substitute it for the identical Third
11 Reading Calendar 455.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 substitutions are ordered.
14 Senator Skelos, we do have that
15 report of a standing committee, the Higher
16 Education Committee, that we could read in.
17 We'll return to the order of standing -- reports
18 of standing committees. I'll ask the Secretary
19 to read the report.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle,
21 from the Committee on Higher Education, reports
22 the following bill direct to third reading:
23 Senate Print 3511, by Senator
24 Lack, an act authorizing the State University of
25 New York to lease and contract for the design
2090
1 and construction of an Asian cultural and
2 studies center.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
4 objection, hearing no objection, the bill is
5 ordered directly to third reading. Senator
6 Skelos, that brings us to the calendar.
7 SENATOR SKELOS:
8 Non-controversial please, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the non-controversial
11 calendar.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 182, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number
14 2076-A, an act to amend the General Business
15 Law, in relation to establishing additional
16 restrictions.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
18 will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll. )
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2091
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an
4 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
5 motor vehicle liability insurance rates.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay that
7 aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside at the request of Senator Dollinger.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 289, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1924, an
12 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
13 authorizing an additional term of imprisonment.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
17 act shall take effect on the 1st day of
18 November.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2092
1 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,
2 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
3 relation to transportation of certain persons.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 325, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 927-A, an act
9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
10 Public Authorities Law, in relation to
11 authorizing cities.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
15 act shall take effect in 30 days.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 the passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 359, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number
24 3080, an act to amend the General Municipal Law,
25 in relation to powers of municipalities.
2093
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Padavan, why do you rise?
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay that bill
4 aside for the day pending receipt of
5 amendments.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
7 Number 359 will be laid aside at the request of
8 the sponsor.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 369, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 204, an
11 acted to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
12 increasing bonded indebtedness.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will
15 read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 392, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2804, an
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1 act to amend Chapter 31 of the Laws of 1985,
2 amending the Education Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
4 will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 412, substituted earlier today, Budget Bill,
15 Assembly Print 1301-A, an act making
16 appropriations for the legal requirements of the
17 state debt service.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is high. It will be laid aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 415, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
22 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act
23 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
24 to powers of the Dormitory Authority.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2095
1 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 416, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
4 Print 3865, an act to amend the State Finance
5 Law, in relation to monies available.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 417, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
10 Print 3867, an act to amend the State Finance
11 Law, in relation to monies available.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 427, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
16 Print 3863, an act to amend Chapter 329 of the
17 Laws of 1991, amending the State Finance Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
19 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 428, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
22 Print 3866, an act to amend the Transportation
23 Law, in relation to fees paid to defray the
24 operating expenses.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2096
1 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 435, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3754, an act
4 to amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992,
5 amending the General Municipal Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
7 will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll. )
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 436, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly
18 Print 6329, substituted earlier today, an act to
19 amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Senate bill is high, but the Assembly substitute
22 is live. Secretary will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
2097
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834,
8 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
9 Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is high. The bill will be laid aside.
12 Senator Skelos, that completes
13 the reading of the non-controversial calendar.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
15 if we could take up the controversial calendar
16 starting with Senator DeFrancisco's bill,
17 Calendar Number 311.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Dollinger, why do you rise?
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A motion to
21 discharge pending. Is that motion in order at
22 this time? Can we take that?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, it's
24 not, Senator.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is not?
2098
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, the
2 calendar specifically provides that the motions
3 to discharge will be taken up at the end of the
4 day, so after we're done with the calendar, then
5 and at the end of the day you'll be recognized
6 for that purpose.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is that -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Skelos, did you wish to speak to that?
10 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe that's
11 Rule V. And would you please recognize Senator
12 Seward.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Seward.
15 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
16 if I could interrupt the proceedings briefly to
17 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 270,
18 270.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 will be starred at the request of the sponsor.
21 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Dollinger, does that explain to you?
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a point
25 of order, Mr. President. Does that mean that we
2099
1 go through the controversial calendar and there
2 are bills that are either laid aside or for some
3 other purpose, and the Rules Committee meets
4 that it's after that, or the reading of the
5 controversial calendar.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: It is the last
10 order of business of the day.
11 If we could take up Senator
12 DeFrancisco's bill, Calendar Number 311.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read Calendar Number 311.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480,
17 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
18 relation to the transportation of certain
19 persons.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number
23 311 has been requested by the Acting Minority
24 Leader, Senator Paterson.
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill
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1 is to require that, if an individual is seeking
2 transportation and it's paid for my Medicaid or
3 social services in some fashion, that if the
4 person is physically and mentally capable of
5 using a fixed route public transportation
6 system, then that the individual would be
7 scheduled on that rather than an alternative
8 type of transportation.
9 The reason for this bill is,
10 number one, if someone is capable and able
11 bodied and able to use public transportation
12 just like anyone else who is not on social
13 services, they should be suitable for -- the
14 public transportation should be suitable for
15 those individuals.
16 Secondly, it has a second
17 benefit, not only to cut costs in social
18 services, but every year we in the Senate and
19 the Assembly, provide support for public
20 transportation by way of grants to various
21 public transportation facilities such as CENTRO
22 in my district. By having this requirement, not
23 only will it save money in social services, but
24 it will also provide for increased ridership of
25 public transportation and, therefore, reduce the
2101
1 need for subsidies to allow public transporta
2 tion which is needed by all, especially low
3 income workers, a reliable public transportation
4 system is essential, so it will increase
5 ridership and help those type of organizations
6 as well.
7 That's the purpose for the bill,
8 and it did pass last year.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 If Senator DeFrancisco would
14 yield for a few questions.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
19 related to this particular bill there have been
20 a number of complaints that I have heard about
21 and received from seniors who may not be totally
22 incapacitated but certainly suffer from a number
23 of physical challenges, and what this bill will
24 effectively do in many cases is force, in New
25 York City, seniors onto the subway, and I'm
2102
1 wondering, in spite of the fact that it may have
2 some -- it may have some cost reductions,
3 whether or not you think this is a good idea,
4 where you have such a subjective standard of
5 what incapacity would be and prior approval.
6 The point just is that it seems
7 pretty clear to most of the senior groups and
8 the seniors that I have spoken to that it's
9 going to cause an encumbrance and an
10 inconvenience for those who really do need the
11 care. It's not that -- that they're just taking
12 advantage of taxpayer dollars, and their trip to
13 receive that care is going to be made that much
14 more difficult by the passage of -- of what
15 you're proposing.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, you
17 know, if we were in a perfect world, we could
18 pay for everything for anybody, whatever their
19 needs might be, but unfortunately we're not in
20 that situation.
21 What the bill says specifically
22 is that public transportation shall be required
23 when that transportation is available and the
24 nature and severity of the recipient's illness
25 does not necessitate a mode of transportation.
2103
1 If the senior or the junior or anybody else can
2 prove that -- establish that their illness is
3 such that other type of transportation is
4 required, then they wouldn't be subject to the
5 requirements of this particular bill.
6 So I think there's people who
7 aren't on public assistance that are old too
8 that go on public transportation. There are
9 people that are in low income jobs that also go
10 on public transportation, and when we keep
11 cutting routes in public transportation because
12 we don't have enough ridership, that requires us
13 to fund in the public transportation area as
14 well.
15 I think the bill strikes a good
16 balance because those cases that compel other
17 types of transportation would be permitted under
18 the bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 if Senator DeFrancisco would continue to yield.
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 continues to yield.
2104
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
2 President.
3 Senator, how do you distinguish
4 between "disability" and "illness" under the
5 legislation? It seems as if individuals who are
6 disabled but not ill would still be required to
7 use these methods of transportation.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well,
9 whether you call it illness or disability, if
10 public transportation is something that is
11 inappropriate for that particular individual,
12 then public transportation is not required.
13 You know, in the law, we've been
14 interpreting "reasonable man" or woman for many,
15 many years, most recently women, but it always
16 used to be the "reasonable man" standard and
17 that standard has been interpreted by the courts
18 and has been interpreted by administrators for
19 years and years. There's no precise definition
20 that you can give, but the intent is clear that
21 obviously if an individual has a condition such
22 that public transportation is inappropriate,
23 then that -- then they would not be required to
24 use public transportation and certain
25 disabilities, by the way, at least in our
2105
1 district, there are CENTRO buses that do have
2 ramps that allow for individuals with certain
3 handicapped conditions to use public
4 transportation. In fact, the groups demanded it
5 and got it so that they could travel like
6 everybody else can, and so by using the word
7 "disability", there's some people with
8 disabilities that not only travel on public
9 transportation but also wanted to travel on
10 public transportation, and that's why the buses
11 were modified and new buses have these
12 particular ramps.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Paterson.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
16 President. If the Senator would continue to
17 yield.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 continues to yield.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, since
22 it is not a perfect world and we are using a
23 reasonable standard test, my question simply is,
24 since we already require prior approval, what is
25 really going to be enhanced by passing this
2106
1 bill? I mean in other words we have a standard
2 right now that makes -- that not only delineates
3 between whether a person is able or not able to
4 sponsor themselves to get to this medical care,
5 and my question is, if that's already the case,
6 why would we want to tinker with it when the
7 individuals who are affected are pretty much
8 going to be people who have been taxpayer
9 dollars, their tax dollars have provided the
10 broad revenue base for our standard of living
11 and for our economy here in this state.
12 It just seems to me this is the
13 wrong crowd to really pick on if we want to cut
14 costs, and increase ridership on the subway or
15 whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish.
16 It's just my opinion that we are splitting hairs
17 but since we already have the prior approval,
18 why would we not just remain on that standard?
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Because it
20 depends on where you happen to live in the state
21 of New York whether or not -- how that prior
22 approval is being interpreted, and here is an
23 objective standard that would apply statewide
24 for prior approval.
25 Secondly, I'm not trying to pick
2107
1 on anybody. No one's trying to pick on anybody,
2 but it's similar to other bills that we pass.
3 It's wonderful to provide things for people, but
4 if you look at that next step, that next level
5 of individuals who may have the same
6 disabilities or may have the same illnesses that
7 can't afford public transportation but they're
8 not on social services, they have to -- they
9 have to find a way to do it as well.
10 It's just putting, I think, the
11 individuals who are on social services in the
12 same position as any other individual who may
13 not be, in an effort to increase ridership and
14 in an effort so that there is a viable public
15 transportation system for those who need it,
16 especially people with low income trying to
17 maintain a job and not be required to go on
18 social services.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Paterson.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his
23 answer.
24 Mr. President, on the bill. It
25 really did take me a moment to try to figure out
2108
1 what Senator DeFrancisco was getting at, and his
2 explanation was -- was quite fulfilling in the
3 sense that I understand now what he's saying
4 about the problem in the current law as it's
5 applied in different areas around the state.
6 My response is simply that, if
7 there is a problem with the current law, I don't
8 think that we necessarily have to pass
9 legislation that is going to exact the
10 encumbrances on individuals who need this kind
11 of assistance as much as we might be able to go
12 through DSS or New York City HRA and accomplish
13 that through what I think would be some
14 administrative changes that might level the
15 playing field all over the state; but I just
16 think that as a means to increase ridership on
17 the subway as was mentioned or because of the
18 fact that perhaps a few people that probably
19 could get there by an alternative means of
20 transportation probably aren't, in my opinion,
21 it's so de minimus in terms of what its effect
22 is or even what its cost is that it doesn't, in
23 my opinion, augur well for us as a state to be
24 exacting this kind of inconvenience on many of
25 our citizens.
2109
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
3 Senator Waldon.
4 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
5 much, Mr. President.
6 Would the learned gentleman from
7 Syracuse, great area of Syracuse yield to a
8 question or two?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Waldon?
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
13 much, Mr. President.
14 Senator DeFrancisco, were any
15 studies conducted before you wrote this
16 legislation, this proposal, in regard to the
17 locations of bus lines in the city of New York
18 versus the homes of many of the seniors in that
19 area, meaning the distance as a rule of thumb
20 from home to accessing the bus lines?
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's no
22 studies that I know of. The way the bill came
23 to my attention is that every year since I've
24 been in the Senate, our local bus company,
25 CENTRO, keeps coming to my office for additional
2110
1 revenues in order to balance their budget or
2 else they're going to cut lines, so there will
3 be less convenient lines for everybody and, at
4 some point in time, they had mentioned that
5 their organization had a similar situation occur
6 throughout at least upstate New York and central
7 New York where they were learning that many
8 individuals who would be physically capable to
9 take their bus service were being given
10 alternate means of transportation.
11 So the idea came actually from
12 them that this would be a win/win situation.
13 Number one, it would allow us to keep the more
14 bus routes that we had if we had increased
15 ridership and it would save money in the Social
16 Services Department, so I guess what I'm saying
17 no study but without something like this,
18 there's a risk at least in my area of reduced
19 number of bus lines because of reduced
20 revenues.
21 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
22 gentleman yield to one more question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
2111
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 continues to yield.
3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
4 much, Mr. President.
5 By the way, Senator Paterson, can
6 you hear me now? Yesterday we discussed whether
7 or not this microphone works sufficiently well.
8 Are you able to hear me?
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Will the
10 Senator yield?
11 SENATOR WALDON: He could have
12 just nodded. But anyway, Senator DeFrancisco,
13 the question is, are there any elevated lines in
14 Syracuse, New York?
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's
16 none off the ground, no.
17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
18 much. Mr. President, on the bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Waldon, on the bill.
21 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
22 think that this may be very appropriate, what
23 Senator DeFrancisco has proposed, for the city
24 of Syracuse, New York, but it is very inappro
25 priate for the city of New York.
2112
1 One, many of the seniors who may
2 be infirm or suffering disability, be it severe
3 or very light, have to negotiate from their
4 homes to the bus lines which are not so close
5 by. An example, the Q4, which goes up and down
6 Linden Boulevard which is just one block from my
7 house, but if you go over towards the cemetery
8 or Francis Lewis Boulevard -- and there are
9 many, many homes of constituents there -- people
10 in snowy times and wet weather times, be they
11 seniors or otherwise, have to walk that great
12 distance six or seven blocks just to get to that
13 bus line. When it's snow and ice on the ground,
14 it becomes an extreme difficulty for them.
15 Those who have to go to the elevated line would
16 have to negotiate those steps by themselves and
17 I don't think the standard as described in this
18 proposal is sufficiently sensitive to having
19 someone at DSS say, Well, you know, if you can
20 walk you can get there. They would not
21 necessarily say, If you can walk but with some
22 difficulty you will not have to use the public
23 transportation.
24 And so, for those reasons, I will
25 have to vote no.
2113
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
2 Senator yield to one question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Waldon, do you yield to a question from Senator
5 DeFrancisco?
6 SENATOR WALDON: Absolutely.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 yields.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How do those
10 same seniors and the same individuals get to the
11 various means of public transportation that are
12 not on social services?
13 SENATOR WALDON: Well, for the
14 most part, the organization that I helped to
15 create, the Jamaica Service Program for Older
16 Adults, which has been in existence for about a
17 quarter of a century and which services about
18 400,000 seniors in the southeast Queens areas,
19 they have bus services; they have van services.
20 They have the ability for the seniors to -- they
21 have the service where the seniors can call and
22 say, "I have to go to my doctor. I have to go
23 shopping for food," and someone is provided to
24 take them, so that's not an issue at this
25 moment.
2114
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: O.K. Thank
2 you.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
4 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing
5 none, the Secretary will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll. )
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
12 the results when tabulated.
13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
14 the negative on Calendar Number 311 are Senators
15 Abate, Connor, Gentile, Gold, Kruger, Lachman,
16 Markowitz, Mendez, Paterson, Rosado, Santiago,
17 Seabrook, Smith and Waldon, also Senator
18 Sampson. Ayes 37, nays 15. Also Senator
19 Oppenheimer. Ayes 36, nays 18*(16?).
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 Senator Skelos, where would you
23 like to go next on the active list?
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Please take up
25 Calendar Number 235, by Senator Cook.
2115
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
2 will read Calendar Number 235, Senate Print
3 1418-A, by Senator Cook.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an
6 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
7 motor vehicle liability insurance rates.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could we have
9 an explanation of that bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 235 has
12 been requested by Senator Dollinger.
13 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, a
14 short answer is this simply makes permanent a
15 provision that is currently in the law that has
16 a sunset date on it.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
20 President, I didn't hear that. I apologize.
21 SENATOR COOK: Senator, this
22 simply makes permanent a provision of law that's
23 already in there with a sunset date in it.
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
25 President, is this 235?
2116
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: This is
2 Calendar Number 235, Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
4 The wording, Senator, has been
5 changed somewhat because the Insurance Committee
6 felt that, if we were going to make it
7 permanent, it would be a good idea to make the
8 language a little more clear, but it's currently
9 the provision that's in the law.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. That
11 answers my question, Mr. President.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
14 will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
16 act shall take effect on the 1st day of
17 January.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 Senator Skelos, where would you
25 like to go next?
2117
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 we'll stand at ease.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senate will stand at ease.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is my motion
6 in order at this point? Mr. President, the
7 calendar is done. While we're waiting for
8 bills, I assume action from other committees,
9 why wouldn't it be -
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Dollinger, we're still on the order of the
12 calendar. We have not gone any farther than
13 that in the order, and the rules specifically -
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
15 believe we're at ease.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We are.
17 We are.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
19 President, can I ask a point of order while
20 we're at ease? Can I get a point of order at
21 ease or not? No? Unbelievable!
22 (The Senate stood at ease from
23 11:36 a.m., to 12:06 p.m.)
24 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2118
1 Velella.
2 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
3 there will be a Majority Conference in the
4 Majority Conference Room at 12:15, and the
5 Senate will stand at ease in the interim.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:
7 Republican conference, Majority Conference in
8 the Majority Conference Room at 12:15.
9 Senate stands at ease.
10 (The Senate was at ease from
11 12:07 p.m., until 1:15 p.m.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
16 will come to order.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
21 recognize Senator Montgomery.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Montgomery.
24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
2119
1 I'd like to have unanimous
2 consent to be recorded in the negative on
3 Calendar 311.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
5 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
6 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
7 Calendar Number 311.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
10 recognize Senator Stavisky.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Stavisky.
13 SENATOR STAVISKY: I also would
14 like to have unanimous consent to be recorded in
15 the negative on Calendar Number 311.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
17 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
18 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on
19 Calendar Number 311.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Bruno
22 would like the membership informed that the
23 Senate will stand in recess until 3:15 and would
24 suggest that you call each one's respective
25 leader to find out if we will be starting
2120
1 exactly at 3:15.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
3 stands in recess until 3:15.
4 (Whereupon at 1:18 p.m., the
5 Senate recessed until 5:09 p.m.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Senate will come to order.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 there will be an immediate meeting of the
11 Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and
12 the Senate will stand at ease awaiting the
13 report of the Finance Committee.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
15 will be a immediate meeting of the Senate
16 Finance Committee, immediate meeting of the
17 Senate Finance Committee in the Majority
18 Conference Room, Room 332, and we'll stand at
19 ease awaiting the report from that committee
20 meeting, and which Senator Gold is on his way
21 anxiously and hurriedly out of the chamber to
22 attend.
23 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
24 ease from 5:10 p.m. until 5:20 p.m.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2121
1 Senate will come to order. Members please take
2 their chairs.
3 Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
5 if we could return to reports of standing
6 committees, I believe there's a report at the
7 desk of the Finance Committee. I ask that it be
8 read.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
10 return to the order of standing -- reports of
11 standing committees.
12 I'll ask the Secretary to read
13 the report of the Finance Committee.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
16 following bills:
17 Senate Print 3428-A, by Senator
18 Velella, an act to amend the Education Law, in
19 relation to transportation services;
20 3977, by the Senate Committee on
21 Rules, an act making appropriations for the
22 support of government;
23 3979, by the Senate Committee on
24 Rules, an act making appropriations for the
25 support of government; and
2122
1 3978, by the Senate Committee on
2 Rules, an act making appropriations for the
3 support of government.
4 All bills ordered direct for
5 third reading.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 at this time if we could go back to the regular
10 calendar and take up Calendar Number 412, Senate
11 701-A.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
13 objection, all bills reported from the Finance
14 Committee are ordered directly to third
15 reading. We'll return to the calendar, the
16 active list.
17 The Secretary will read Calendar
18 Number 412.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 412, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
21 1301-A, substituted earlier today, an act making
22 appropriations for the legal requirements of the
23 state debt service.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Skelos.
2123
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
2 message of necessity at the desk?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
7 Calendar Number 412. All those in favor signify
8 by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye".)
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 The message is accepted.
13 The Secretary will read the last
14 section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 Senator Skelos.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
25 would you take up Calendar Number 415, Senate
2124
1 3857.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 415, substituted earlier today by the Assembly
6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act
7 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
8 to powers of the Dormitory Authority.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
12 is there a message of necessity at the desk?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
17 Calendar Number 415. All those in favor signify
18 by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye".)
20 Opposed, nay.
21 (There was no response.)
22 The message is accepted.
23 The Secretary will read the last
24 section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2125
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 would you take up Calendar Number 457, Senate
11 3864.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834,
16 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
17 Law, in relation to extending authority to
18 regulate the management of scup and black sea
19 bass.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
23 message at the desk?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
2126
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
3 Calendar Number 457. All those in favor signify
4 by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye".)
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 The message is accepted.
9 The Secretary will read the last
10 section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
12 act shall take effect April 1st.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
21 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
22 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and the
23 Senate will stand at ease pending the report of
24 the Rules Committee.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
2127
1 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
2 Committee in the Senate Majority Conference
3 Room, Room 332, an immediate meeting in the
4 Senate Majority Conference Room for the Rules
5 Committee and the Senate stands at ease.
6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
7 ease from 5:24 p.m. until 5:29 p.m.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senate will come to order again.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
12 if we could once again return to reports of
13 standing committees, I believe there's a report
14 of the Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that
15 it be read.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
17 return to the order of reports of standing
18 committees.
19 I'll ask the Secretary to read
20 the report from the Rules Committee.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
22 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
23 following bills:
24 Senate Print 3779, by Senator
25 Trunzo, an act to amend the Civil Service Law,
2128
1 in relation to providing for payments to certain
2 public employees; and
3 Senate Print 3980, by the Senate
4 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the
5 Environmental Conservation Law, in relation to
6 centrally fueled fleets.
7 All bills ordered direct for
8 third reading.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
10 objection, all bills are ordered directly to
11 third reading.
12 Senator Skelos, we have a motion
13 we would like to take care of if that's okay at
14 this time. We'll return to motions and
15 resolutions.
16 The Chair recognizes Senator
17 Marcellino.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr.
19 President. On behalf of Senator Goodman, on
20 page number 20, I offer the following amendments
21 to Calendar Number 379, Senate Print Number 753
22 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
23 Third Reading Calendar.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 amendments to Calendar Number 379 are received
2129
1 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
2 the Third Reading Calendar.
3 Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
8 would you please call up Senate 3428-A, which
9 was reported from the Finance Committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a
11 substitution on that bill we would like to read
12 first, Senator Skelos, to put it before the
13 house.
14 The Secretary will read the
15 substitution.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella
17 moves to discharge from the Committee on
18 Education Assembly Bill Number 6298-A and
19 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
20 Calendar 459.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 substitution is ordered.
23 The Secretary will read the
24 title.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2130
1 459, by member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly
2 Print 6298-A, an act to amend the Education Law,
3 in relation to transportation services.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
5 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
17 would you take up Senate 3977 which was just
18 reported from the Finance Committee.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number
21 -- excuse me -- Senate Print 3977, Calendar
22 Number 460.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 460, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
25 Print 3977, an act making appropriations for the
2131
1 support of government.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
5 message at the desk?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
7 a message of necessity on Calendar Number 460 at
8 the desk, Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
12 Calendar Number 460. All those in favor signify
13 by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye".)
15 Opposed, nay.
16 (There was no response.)
17 The message is accepted.
18 The Secretary will read the last
19 section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
21 act shall take effect April 1st.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
2132
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could just
5 stand at ease for a moment.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Skelos, we do have a message from the Assembly,
8 if you would like to take that, concerning a
9 bill we put to third reading. It's Assembly
10 Print 6545.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept
12 the message from the Assembly.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
14 return to the reports of messages from the
15 Assembly.
16 I'll ask the Secretary to read.
17 THE SECRETARY: On motion of
18 Senator Bruno, the rules were suspended on said
19 bill, Assembly 6545, by the Assembly Committee
20 on Rules, ordered to third reading.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection, the bill is ordered directly to third
23 reading.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Stand at ease
25 now.
2133
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senate will stand at ease.
3 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
4 ease from 5:35 p.m. until 6:00 p.m.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senate will come to order.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
9 call up Calendar Number 462.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 462, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
14 Print 3978, an act making appropriations for the
15 support of government.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 is there a message of necessity at the desk?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
24 Calendar Number 462, Senate Print 3978. All
25 those in favor signify by saying aye.
2134
1 (Response of "Aye".)
2 Opposed, nay.
3 (There was no response.)
4 The message is accepted.
5 The Secretary will read the last
6 section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
8 act shall take effect April 1st.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
13 the results when recorded.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
15 would you call up Calendar Number 463, Senate
16 Bill Number 3980.
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar Number 462 are Senators
19 Abate, Breslin, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Nanula,
20 Oppenheimer, Rosado. Senator Abate recorded in
21 the affirmative. Ayes 54, nays 6.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, how
23 did I vote?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Gold, you were recorded in the affirmative.
2135
1 Senator Seabrook, you wish to be recorded in the
2 negative on Calendar Number 462? Okay.
3 The Secretary will read the
4 results again.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 7.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 The Secretary will read Calendar
9 Number 463.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 463, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
12 Print 3980, an act to amend the Environmental
13 Conservation Law, in relation to centrally
14 fueled fleets.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
18 message at the desk?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
23 Calendar Number 463. All those in favor signify
24 by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye".)
2136
1 Opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 The message is accepted.
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:
5 Explanation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Marcellino, an explanation of Calendar Number
8 463 has been requested by Senator Oppenheimer.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah. The
10 Governor has proposed in his emergency budget a
11 plan to repeal the clean fuel fleet mandate on
12 owners of heavy -
13 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry,
14 Senator, I don't mean to be impolite but it's
15 hard to hear you.
16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I apologize.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Can we
18 have a little order in the house, please?
19 Senators please take their seats, the staff take
20 their seats. Conversation taken out of the
21 chamber. Thank you.
22 Senator Marcellino, for an
23 explanation.
24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This bill is
25 basically a repeal -- well, not a budget repeal
2137
1 but a postponement of the clean fuel fleet
2 mandate on owners of heavy duty vehicle fleets
3 in the downstate region. If this mandate is not
4 postponed, the DEC is required to issue
5 regulations by May 13th to finalize the whole
6 process by mid-August of going to clean fuel and
7 have all municipalities, school districts, park
8 districts and businesses with trucks that
9 qualify -- that are over 6,000 tons or 6500 tons
10 that qualify, have them converted over to clean
11 fuel.
12 The cost estimated by the Council
13 of School Superintendents, for example, predicts
14 that the law would cost school districts upwards
15 of $200 million per year, a 17 percent increase
16 in statewide expenditures on school district
17 transportation. This would more than consume
18 the Governor's entire proposed school aid
19 increase for the effective reasons.
20 The School Boards Association
21 estimates an initial cost of $400 million for
22 school districts to pay for the necessary
23 infrastructure improvements, that is, fueling
24 stations which currently don't exist.
25 We are asking that in this
2138
1 legislation that we postpone the target date two
2 years. In the interim, we will do a study and a
3 report will be issued to determine the
4 availability of -- let's see. Let's use the
5 exact language in the bill -- "the availability
6 of fuels, vehicles and infrastructure necessary
7 to implement the program, the cost of complying
8 with the program for municipalities, schools,
9 businesses and other potentially affected fleet
10 owners and fuel providers and emission benefits
11 in contribution to attainment of any applicable
12 health standards."
13 The program was initially
14 indicated as part of the state's Clean Air Act
15 which was a duplicate of the federal Clean Air
16 Act program.
17 The federal program has been
18 basically withdrawn and the state's still on the
19 books forced to implement this program by -
20 almost immediately by 1998. The districts
21 involved -- I can give you some specifics on
22 it. I have a thing from the Association of
23 Towns -- a memo that came from the Association
24 of Towns.
25 For example, it says here that
2139
1 the state legislation is required to revise the
2 -- New York's SIP. Absent state legislation,
3 the DEC is required to implement the CFFP
4 effective with vehicle model year 1998. Current
5 DEC regulations promulgated to implement the
6 CFFP requires 50 percent of new heavy duty
7 vehicles to be clean fuel vehicles. Compliance
8 with this regulation will be costly to 44 towns
9 located in the affected area.
10 For example, the town of
11 Hempstead, which is the largest town in the
12 United States populationwise, has 519 vehicles
13 affected -- in the affected weight class. The
14 town purchases 35 new vehicles each year. Under
15 this law, it would have to purchase, you know,
16 over 250 new vehicles this year. The town of
17 Hempstead estimates that the cost to the
18 taxpayers would be $3.2 million to convert their
19 fleet and fueling stations to compressed natural
20 gas in order to comply with the proposed
21 regulations.
22 Similarly, the taxpayers in the
23 town of Eastchester in Westchester County will
24 be affected by the cost of implementation of
25 this program. The taxpayers of the town of
2140
1 Eastchester will spend more than $150,000 to
2 comply with this regulation.
3 The town of Huntington in Suffolk
4 County, which I represent, has 63 vehicles in
5 the targeted weight class and purchases five new
6 vehicles annually. The town estimates that it
7 will cost the taxpayers 1.2 million to convert
8 their fueling stations and 315 million to
9 convert the 63 targeted vehicles.
10 The town of Ramapo has 36
11 targeted vehicles and purchases seven new
12 vehicles each year. It estimates in excess of
13 $200,000 to convert their fleet and fueling
14 facility to compressed natural gas.
15 The key thing is it is extremely
16 expensive. Benefits to clean air are minimal
17 and not tossed aside. We're not throwing aside
18 the Clean Air Act. The bill is a means to the
19 end, not the end. The plan of the clean fuel
20 act was a method, a direction to go. It isn't
21 the only way to go. There are many other
22 methods to attain this act. The study proposed
23 will determine some of them and their viability
24 rather than engaging in a super expensive
25 program for what could be considered
2141
1 questionable benefit.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Oppenheimer.
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would the
5 sponsor yield for a question or two?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Marcellino, do you yield to a question?
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure,
9 absolutely.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator,
13 what value do you think -- what will come out of
14 the study for a program that we knew this
15 mandate existed from six years ago. What more
16 do you think a study would produce?
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, the
18 study will, one, let us know if there are
19 facilities available to do this. I understand
20 the law has been out there and the requirement
21 to meet these standards has been there but the
22 fact of life is budgetarywise, these
23 municipalities are not prepared to deal with
24 this. The fact is your school districts are not
25 prepared to deal with this. Your park
2142
1 districts, your sewer districts, anybody or any
2 district that is required to maintain fleets,
3 they're not prepared to deal with this. The
4 infrastructure doesn't exist. Pumping stations,
5 transfer fuel stations don't exist except in
6 very few locations.
7 So practically speaking, those
8 school districts, for example, that would be
9 planning their budgets now for a May vote would
10 immediately have to kick in and take into
11 consideration the needs and the necessity of
12 converting their fleet that exists now, whatever
13 percentages come in immediately, plus building a
14 fueling station if one doesn't exist for them in
15 a nearby area, cost prohibitive. Increasing
16 property taxes on our residents. The cost could
17 be disastrous.
18 A study might be a smart way to
19 go and it might be the way to buy some time so
20 that we can begin to analyze it, know the
21 problems, know where we want to go and how we
22 want to get there and, if possible, get to that
23 goal of clean air which we all desire. Nobody
24 is looking to foul the air. No one is looking
25 to lessen the quality of our air by doing this.
2143
1 We're trying to give our municipalities and our
2 districts an opportunity to plan properly.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Oppenheimer.
5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you
6 would yield again.
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Marcellino, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Senator continues to yield.
13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It just
14 seems that having had six years to do this in,
15 we -- we probably could have done a study in
16 that period of time and at this juncture, would
17 it not be wiser to move ahead with the program
18 phased in over a long period of time, a slower
19 phase-in? What would a study produce? I think
20 you're looking for a phase-in, a period of time.
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I think you
22 just asked me that question two seconds ago, if
23 I'm not mistaken.
24 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: About how
25 about phasing it in over a longer period of
2144
1 time? Starting now, we were -
2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We are doing
3 exactly what you're saying. We're giving them
4 two more years. We're saying look at it for two
5 years. You know it's coming in two years.
6 You've got to come up with a proposal. We're
7 going to look at the proposal from the state
8 basis. We're going to ask the DEC to take a
9 long hard look at this proposal and say, is this
10 effective? Is it cost-effective? We're going
11 to spends hundreds of millions of dollars to
12 make this happen.
13 According to the School Boards
14 Association, as I said -- as I read to you in my
15 very lengthy opening statement, upwards of $200
16 million a year for the school districts, 17
17 percent increase in property taxes. I don't
18 think anybody can handle that. I know the
19 districts in my area that I represent, I'm sure
20 the districts that you represent, could not
21 impact and absorb that kind of an expenditure at
22 this point in time. If you're saying, should
23 they have prepared and done this a long time
24 ago? I can't argue with that, but the fact is
25 they didn't and we have to live with the reality
2145
1 now.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
3 like to ask another question and that is, was
4 this not the purpose of the bond act that we
5 passed in November to help us with cleaner air
6 and was this not the purpose of the petroleum
7 overcharge funds to help us? Why are we not
8 utilizing those funds?
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: One, the
10 bond act -- yes, the bond act could be used to
11 offset some of the costs but it's only some, not
12 all, and we're not sure what those costs exactly
13 would be at this point in time, anyway. That's
14 part of the problem. We may have some
15 facilities out there that would impact some
16 districts positively. We may not have in most
17 districts that have to construct. The cost of
18 construction in various areas is different. We
19 would have to know. To try to use bond act
20 money and just say, Yeah, we're going to apply
21 bond money off to it would be great but we would
22 be committing money. We don't know how much and
23 we don't know how -- you know, when.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Oppenheimer.
2146
1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That,
2 frankly, would be -- as my good colleague down
3 here just reminded me, that would be part of the
4 study and should be part of the study to
5 determine exactly what we need and how much we
6 have to spend and when.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Oppenheimer.
9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
10 Senator.
11 On the bond, if I may, please.
12 To opt out of the clean air program which man
13 dates upon us a cleaner environment, particular
14 ly in the Senator and my area which is severe,
15 severe non-attainment area, one of the worst
16 areas in the United States, to opt us out of the
17 requirements of the Clean Air Act for our heavy
18 duty vehicles which are spewing pollutants and
19 particulates into the air seems just foolish,
20 foolhardy and I strongly, strongly intend to
21 oppose this.
22 We have had a long enough time to
23 look at this. We have been mandated for six
24 years now and we haven't done it now and we are
25 only postponing it two years more because it's a
2147
1 costly thing -- cleaning up our environment is
2 costly because we have messed it up, and I don't
3 think we ought to be looking at ways of
4 circumventing what is the clean air law for this
5 state.
6 So I will be voting against this
7 and I know the Environmental Planning Lobby is
8 very unhappy with this also.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 Senator Marcellino.
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Without
13 prolonging this unnecessarily-- but I would like
14 to just comment.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Hoffmann -
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We're not
18 opting out of anything. This is not an opt out
19 of the Clean Air Act. We couldn't do that
20 anyway if we tried. This is a reasonable,
21 responsible approach. It's all well and good to
22 tell a school district that comprises umpteen
23 thousand families, Well, you know, shame on
24 you. You didn't do what you were supposed to do
25 six years ago and we're going to punish you for
2148
1 it and we're going to increase your taxes and
2 raise your fees and cost your district millions
3 of dollars because you were bad people.
4 Now, I don't know about you,
5 Senator, but I can't do that to districts. I
6 don't think we have a right to do that to the
7 districts. We're not fouling the air. We're
8 cleaning the air up. We didn't have the
9 California LEV program in place six years ago.
10 We do now which improves emissions standards.
11 We're working on that system and that's doing
12 better. Our air is getting cleaner down here
13 and we haven't gone to clean air fuel -- clean
14 fuel vehicles. We are not -- and please don't
15 repeat that because it's wrong. It's a flat out
16 misstatement. We are not opting out of the
17 Clean Air Act requirements. We're asking that
18 we do this in an intelligent way and spend some
19 time and some money to study the problem and
20 look at it and give these districts a chance to
21 react in a proper way.
22 You're talking about school
23 districts, towns, cities, businesses, all
24 throughout the state of New York and -- all
25 throughout the state of New York that have to
2149
1 comply and, if we don't do it correctly, we
2 could impact them in a tremendously negative
3 manner and take this very nice upturn we have in
4 our economy and blow it right out the window.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Hoffmann.
7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. This is
8 a very interesting issue and I -- I had one or
9 two questions for the sponsor. I wonder if
10 Senator Marcellino would be so kind as to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Marcellino, do you yield to a question from
13 Senator Hoffmann?
14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: My pleasure.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator
18 Marcellino, I know that you chair the
19 Environmental Conservation Committee in this
20 chamber with great passion and your commitment
21 to this particular piece of legislation is
22 commendable, and I too frequently find myself in
23 a position where I recognize that people in my
24 portion of the state or even in some minute
25 segment of the Senate District I represent may
2150
1 differ from a larger mandate imposed upon them,
2 but generally I expect our Environmental
3 Conservation Committee to give us an opportunity
4 to air such an issue in a thoughtful way, and
5 I'm just wondering if you could explain to me
6 the timing with which this measure has been
7 introduced and brought to the floor. I'm a
8 little confused by this. When was this bill
9 first introduced, Senator Marcellino?
10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This
11 particular bill, it's my understanding, was
12 introduced today. It's been part of the
13 negotiations between the Senate and the Assembly
14 and the Governor on the continuing budget
15 resolution that we're doing today. This is part
16 of that program. This is language to implement
17 it. However, as a member, you, of course, know,
18 that there is a bill in committee that I sponsor
19 to do very much the same thing and repeal this
20 act and it's been there for some time.
21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. -- Mr.
22 President, I wonder if Senator Marcellino would
23 yield for another question.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Senator continues to yield.
2151
1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator
2 Marcellino, you have piqued my curiosity. You
3 say there is a bill in the committee which you
4 chair and I would know this and it's been there
5 for some time. Why would I know this, Senator
6 Marcellino? Has this ever been brought before
7 the Committee? I see Senator Marcellino is
8 conferring with counsel.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We'll get
10 you the bill number, Senator, and we'll make
11 sure you know that the bill was put into the
12 Committee and it's been submitted. It has
13 sponsors and perhaps if you would like to read
14 it, I'll send it to you.
15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: It has
16 sponsors?
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Oh, yeah.
18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Big-time
19 sponsors?
20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, heavy
21 weights, anyway.
22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator
23 Marcellino add one more bit of clarification in
24 the form of an answer?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2152
1 Marcellino, do you want to disclose what the
2 heavyweight means? No, I'm just -
3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Besides
4 yourself, Senator Marcellino, to whom was this
5 bill offered for sponsorship? Could you explain
6 that to those other members of the Environmental
7 Conservation Committee who might have enjoyed
8 supporting you in this effort?
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't
10 recall, quite frankly, Senator.
11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
12 Senator Marcellino. I appreciate that.
13 Mr. President, I realize that
14 Senator Marcellino is attempting to clarify on
15 relatively short notice a very complex issue and
16 the fact that he is an excellent reader and was
17 able to carefully digest and articulate the
18 words on a piece of paper handed to him just
19 moments ago, I think is commendable. It is,
20 however, not the mark of good legislation and it
21 is not a sufficient reason for those of us who
22 care about the environment to want to vote for
23 this measure.
24 I have been a member of the
25 Environmental Conservation Committee in the New
2153
1 York State Senate for some 13 years, and I am
2 appalled that a matter of this significance is
3 not even being discussed, much less brought to a
4 vote, within the confines of that committee.
5 Surely we could have sat and had
6 some reasonable understanding of what this
7 measure means but to be forced tonight as we're
8 about to adjourn for several days for religious
9 holidays to be confronted with a measure with so
10 little information is really an affront to our
11 intelligence and to the dignity of the people in
12 this state, and I would hope that Senator
13 Marcellino and the Majority in this house would
14 consider laying this measure aside so that it
15 can be reviewed and voted on in a more
16 thoughtful way.
17 Absent that choice, I will have
18 no alternative, regardless of how meritorious
19 the measure may be, except to vote in the
20 negative on it and I would hope that many of my
21 colleagues would do the same, but that type of
22 action is not what we should be here for. We
23 should be here for an intelligent analysis of
24 what is a tremendously significant environmental
25 question so that we can go home with a clear
2154
1 conscience and say that we have arrived at an
2 appropriate, rather than a political solution.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Gold.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr.
6 President, I'll be very brief, but what is
7 happening here now is symptomatic of something
8 that's been going on in the last couple of years
9 to an extent which we ought to say something
10 about.
11 I do not believe that it is a
12 world of black and white. I think that there
13 are a lot of gray areas and in finding those
14 gray areas, dealing with them, intelligent
15 people have to draw lines and this Legislature
16 has always dealt with some linkage between
17 issues and in most years in our history, the
18 linkage has made some sense.
19 We are now getting into an area
20 with this Governor, who I like, where he makes
21 linkage and this house makes linkage of issues
22 which have nothing to do with one another and
23 this is considered now a good political
24 bargain. You want something, so today we're
25 going to make a linkage because you want
2155
1 something and I need something, whether they
2 make any sense or not.
3 We came into session today at
4 11:00 o'clock. Everybody in this building knew
5 more or less what the agendas were going to be.
6 We wound up standing at ease for a good part of
7 the day while there were negotiations and
8 bickering over things which really don't deal
9 with the major issues that we came to session
10 today to deal with and this is a perfect
11 example.
12 Senator Hoffmann's remarks are
13 right on target. Senator Oppenheimer's remarks
14 are right on target and this is an issue which
15 we should deal with. It's a question of whether
16 there's a delay, how much of a delay, what time
17 delay and that is a significant issue to deal
18 with but it shouldn't be something that gets
19 thrown at us because three men spent most of the
20 day today behind closed doors -- because I don't
21 think there was any open meeting -- discussing
22 what should or should not be part of a debate on
23 budget issues, and I think that the only way
24 we're going to maintain our own sense of dignity
25 -- because every day it's going to be something
2156
1 that affects every one of us on both sides of
2 this aisle -- we have to stand up and say that
3 there are legitimate issues before this
4 Legislature. Let's deal with them without
5 linking in -- and I'm using that in the politest
6 sense -- other issues which are done so in an
7 inappropriate manner.
8 I intend to vote to support
9 Senator Oppenheimer and the comments made by
10 Senator Hoffmann and I will vote in the
11 negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Dollinger.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
15 President, will the sponsor yield just to one
16 question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Marcellino, do you yield to one question? The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with
21 many of the comments made by my colleagues,
22 Senator Hoffmann, Senator Oppenheimer and
23 Senator Gold but, Senator, could you tell me
24 what the current status of compliance is so that
25 I can make some kind of evaluation based on what
2157
1 you tell me that they've made some good faith
2 effort to comply with this deadline and what
3 we're doing is extending a period of time in
4 order to give them greater time so that their
5 good faith effort can reach its conclusion?
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It's my
7 understanding, Senator, the compliance is slim
8 and none and slim just left town.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So they've
10 done nothing to comply knowing that there was a
11 six-year deadline and now we're going to extend
12 it for two years when they haven't shown any
13 good faith to comply with this.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger, are you asking Senator Marcellino to
16 yield to a second question?
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am, indeed,
18 Mr. President. I apologize.
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's okay
20 because, Senator -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: -- if we
24 were talking about your child or my child who
25 was misbehaving, we would go over and say, You
2158
1 know, you did something wrong and you've got to
2 pay a penalty and maybe you go to your room
3 without television for two hours or you get a
4 little pop on the bottom and you say, Look,
5 don't do it again. That's a bad thing. You
6 can't do that to a school district. You can't
7 do that to a municipality. There's millions of
8 people who are innocent people who have nothing
9 to do with this decision to comply or not to
10 comply. It's bigger than that and I'm sure you
11 understand that. I'm sure Senator Gold under
12 stands that and Senator Oppenheimer understands
13 that, and Senator Hoffmann understands that.
14 I apologize if I was flip
15 before. I didn't mean to be, but the idea is
16 these districts have not got the fiscal ability
17 to comply at the present time. That's why you
18 have a list here, the New York State School
19 Boards Association, the Private School Bus
20 Contractors, the Public -- Car Public Affair,
21 New York Association of Pupil Transporters, the
22 National Association of Pupil Transporters,
23 Petroleum Council, the Association of Towns, New
24 York State Council of School Superintendents,
25 New York Association of Counties, the Empire
2159
1 State Petroleum Association, the Coalition of
2 the Big Five Schools, New York City Legislative
3 Office, all are for this repealer because they
4 don't have the ability, the localities,
5 municipalities and businesses involved do not
6 have the ability to do it now.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I just
8 ask one other -- will Senator Marcellino yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Marcellino, do you yield to another question?
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure, if it
12 would help.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
16 Marcellino, if they don't have the money now,
17 where are they going to find it two years from
18 now to do all this?
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's what
20 the study is designed to help do, Senator.
21 Quite frankly, that's the honest way to answer.
22 This should have been done some time ago. I
23 agree with you. If we're talking about
24 reforming the negotiation process, this chamber
25 passed the reform bill. The Majority over here
2160
1 -- and maybe we were joined by some of you, I
2 don't remember -- but we passed the reform
3 message which would change the process of
4 negotiating budgets. We haven't heard anything
5 from the other chamber. They haven't proposed a
6 thing. I don't mean to be partisan, far be it
7 for me, but the name of the game here is we need
8 the time to look at this thing effectively,
9 efficiently and appropriately to do this right.
10 If you toss it on them, you're going to have a
11 whole bunch of districts and businesses that are
12 going to go, some out of business. Some are
13 going to pick up and move. Some districts are
14 going to be raising property taxes. You're
15 going to have to go home and answer to that and
16 I don't think we want to.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 Just on the bill, briefly.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Dollinger, on the bill.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand
23 Senator Marcellino's passionate argument for an
24 extension of time but it seems to me there are
25 elected bodies that have chosen not to comply,
2161
1 chosen not to start the process of compliance
2 and let's not forget, as Senator Oppenheimer
3 pointed out, why this was done.
4 This is done because there are
5 people who have health problems related to
6 unclear air. That's why this was done. This
7 has been talked about for 20 years and every
8 time we sit down to do something, it's "We need
9 more time. We need more time." It's not just a
10 question of government spending more money.
11 They may have to do that, but think about all of
12 those people who are inhaling dirty air. Think
13 about areas in our ozone that are being
14 depleted. It seems to me that's the reason why
15 it's in place in the first place. To turn our
16 back on it and postpone it again for two years
17 when there's been no effort at good faith -
18 Senator, if you came to me and said they already
19 started to spend the money. They're on their
20 way, I would be more sympathetic to that
21 argument. To say that they've done nothing and
22 now we're going to give them two more years,
23 even though it doesn't affect my region of the
24 state, I think is bad policy.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2162
1 Secretary will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Paterson, do you wish to explain your vote?
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
10 we would like a slow roll call on this.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there
12 five members in chamber who would like to?
13 Please signify by standing. I'm counting five.
14 The Secretary will call the slow
15 roll call.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
17 SENATOR ABATE: No.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi.
19 SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Bruno.
23 (Affirmative indication)
24 Senator Connor.
25 (Negative indication)
2163
1 Senator Cook.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator DeFrancisco.
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Dollinger.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Gentile.
11 SENATOR GENTILE: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Gonzalez, excused.
15 Senator Goodman.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Senator Hannon.
18 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann.
20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland.
22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
24 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
2164
1 (There was no response.)
2 Senator Kuhl.
3 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Lack.
7 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Here.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Leibell.
13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator Levy.
17 SENATOR LEVY: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Marcellino.
23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
25 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
2165
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Markowitz.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Maziarz.
5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier.
7 SENATOR MEIER: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
9 SENATOR MENDEZ: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Montgomery.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Nanula.
14 SENATOR NANULA: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
18 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Onorato, to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President,
22 I'm going to vote against this bill because I
23 represent a district in New York City that's
24 very, very heavily affected by this bill. I
25 have one of the highest emphysema- and
2166
1 lung-related diseases in the entire city of New
2 York in my district and any further delay in
3 implementing a Clean Air Act on our part is
4 unconscionable.
5 We are now in the process of
6 suing the tobacco industry which we know causes
7 cancer. We certainly know that the emissions
8 are causing lung-related diseases to all of the
9 residents of the cities that are affected by the
10 Clean Air Act and any further delay perhaps may
11 wind up with the state of New York being the
12 recipient of lawsuits claiming the health bills
13 that may have to be paid because of the fact
14 that we have not implemented the Clean Air Act
15 and I am, therefore, voting no.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Onorato will be recorded in the negative.
18 Continue the slow roll call.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Oppenheimer.
21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Paterson.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
2167
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson, to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Only to
4 explain that for the reasons stated by Senator
5 Onorato in his explanation and by Senator
6 Oppenheimer in her debate and by the
7 Environmental Planning Lobby which strongly
8 opposes this bill, I vote no.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson will be recorded in the negative.
11 Continue the slow roll call.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
15 SENATOR RATH: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rosado.
17 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
19 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson.
21 SENATOR SAMPSON: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago.
23 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seabrook.
25 SENATOR SEABROOK: No.
2168
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
2 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
6 SENATOR SMITH: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
8 SENATOR SPANO: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Stachowski.
11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford.
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator Trunzo.
17 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully.
19 SENATOR TULLY: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon.
25 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
2169
1 briefly to explain my vote.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Waldon, to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR WALDON: This is a money
5 issue. We're talking about the bottom line of
6 the business community in some form or fashion,
7 and when I read on a daily basis about the
8 warming of the planet and what the ozone layer
9 -- what is happening to the ozone layer, I have
10 to believe that my grandchildren and my great
11 grandchildren deserve a better shake than what
12 we will give them if we were to pass this
13 legislation and it were to become law in this
14 state.
15 So this vote is against the
16 bottom line but for the children, and I vote no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Waldon will be recorded in the negative.
19 Continue the slow roll call.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 absentees.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin.
25 SENATOR BRESLIN: No.
2170
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Gold.
4 SENATOR GOLD: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Kruger.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Lachman.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator LaValle.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Leichter.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator Maltese.
16 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Markowitz.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Montgomery.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Padavan.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Stavisky.
25 (There was no response.)
2171
1 Ayes 31, nays 18.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you call
6 up Calendar Number 464.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read Calendar Number 464.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 464, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly
11 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6545, an
12 act -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
16 message of necessity at the desk?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
21 Calendar Number 464. All those in favor signify
22 by saying aye.
23 (Response of "Aye".)
24 Opposed, nay.
25 (There was no response.)
2172
1 The message is accepted.
2 The Secretary will read the last
3 section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
14 would you call up Calendar Number 461.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read Calendar Number 461.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 461, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
19 Print 3979, an act making appropriations for the
20 support of government.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
24 message at the desk?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
2173
1 a message.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
5 Calendar Number 461. All those in favor signify
6 by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye".)
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 The message is accepted.
11 The Secretary will read the last
12 section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 45. This
14 act shall take effect April 1.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: How about
23 Calendar 465.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will read Calendar Number 465.
2174
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 465, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3779, an
3 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation
4 to providing payments to certain public
5 employees.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
9 message at the desk?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 motion is to accept the message of necessity on
14 Calendar Number 465. All those in favor signify
15 by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response.)
19 The message is accepted.
20 The Secretary will read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
25 roll.
2175
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Explanation has
4 been asked.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Trunzo, an explanation of Calendar Number 465,
7 Senate Print 3779, has been requested by Senator
8 Gold.
9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President,
10 this legislation is a post-negotiated agreement
11 between the Public Employees Federation and the
12 Governor's office regarding the agreement
13 between the Governor and PEF regarding the
14 employees of the professional, scientific and
15 technical unit of the state work force to elect
16 to cash in on up to two days pay or two days
17 leave for the fiscal year 1997-98 and also for
18 fiscal year 1988-89.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
20 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
21 (There was no response.)
22 Hearing none, the Secretary will
23 read the last section.
24 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one
25 second. I'm sorry.
2176
1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
13 would you please lay aside Calendars Number 416,
14 417, 427 and 428.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendars
16 Number 416, 417, 428 and 428 are laid aside for
17 the day.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
19 housekeeping at the desk?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
21 no housekeeping. That completes the calendar
22 for the day, Senator Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
24 would you please recognize Senator Dollinger.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
2177
1 move to the order of motions to discharge.
2 The Chair recognizes Senator
3 Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you
5 very much, Mr. President.
6 I have a motion to discharge at
7 the desk. I would waive its reading and ask
8 that I be heard on the motion.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Dollinger, we'll ask the Secretary to read the
11 title of the motion to discharge to put it on
12 the floor.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
15 Dollinger, Senate Print 3318, an act enacting
16 the Assault Weapon Prohibition and Licensing Act
17 of 1997.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 motion is before -- the discharge is before the
20 house.
21 The Chair recognizes Senator
22 Dollinger to explain the motion.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you
24 very much, Mr. President.
25 I also thank the Deputy Majority
2178
1 Leader -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me
3 just a minute, Senator Dollinger. It's a little
4 noisy in here. We have a lot of members moving
5 around, a lot of staff moving around. Could we
6 settle down and then I think we'll have the
7 appropriate silence for your discussion of the
8 motion.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would just
10 caution the President. I can remember the -
11 wielding the gavel on this debate on other
12 occasions has proved to be costly to the gavel.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Dollinger, I have a new gavel at the desk, one
15 that I'm informed is unbreakable.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you
17 very much, Mr. President.
18 I'll be very brief. I know the
19 hour is late. I understand the rules of the
20 Senate and appreciate those rules which require
21 that this motion come before us today, this day
22 before we leave for religious holidays when
23 we've completed our business but, Mr. President,
24 this is a critical moment. This is a critical
25 moment for the people of this state. This is an
2179
1 opportunity to make law, to make history, to
2 make a landmark decision that will protect the
3 people of this state.
4 We already have before us a bill
5 that is the Senate version of a bill that has
6 passed the Assembly to create a state ban on
7 semiautomatic assault weapons and it seems to me
8 that in this pivotal moment, this moment when
9 we've got a chance to make law, we ought to take
10 it. We ought to approve this motion to
11 discharge so that the bill can come before us
12 for debate.
13 I want to tell everyone here,
14 you've heard my arguments in favor of this ban
15 and this motion to discharge before, but let me
16 tell you something that I learned today and
17 something that I'm promising you today I will
18 do.
19 Today I listened to a man
20 describe the death of his daughter on the Long
21 Island Rail Road. Her name was Amy Locicero
22 Federico, and I watched a man put a picture out
23 of his daughter about age 22 to 25 and tell the
24 story of her death, and I promise you one
25 thing. I'm going to find a bill in every single
2180
1 bill that I can find that I can attach this as
2 an amendment to and every opportunity I have to
3 bring this motion before this house.
4 I vow that I will find a way to
5 not only get a debate on the merits of this if
6 this motion fails, but I promise you I am going
7 to find a bill to put this on. I'm going to
8 come back time and time again. I will not let
9 the voice of Jake Locicero still be still in my
10 mind. It's a powerful voice. It's a voice that
11 requires action. He asked for that action today
12 and I will not rest until I can find a way to
13 make this bill law.
14 I urge you to support this motion
15 to discharge. I urge you to vote in favor of
16 the motion because this is the chance -- and
17 don't make any bones about it. I know
18 everyone's thinking, this is just another one of
19 those motions. I'll be able to explain it to
20 everyone. I'm not going to give you that
21 opportunity. I'm going to tell people that this
22 is the chance. The hour is today. The chance
23 is now. It's our time. This is the time to do
24 the right thing. Now is the time to do the
25 right thing. Put this ban in place. Take the
2181
1 streets of this state and make them safer. The
2 police want it. Your constituents want it.
3 They want it done now. Vote for this motion and
4 we can do it now and we can stop the bloodshed
5 on our streets.
6 Please vote in favor of this
7 motion for Amy Locicero Federico.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
9 any other member wishing to speak on the
10 motion?
11 Senator Montgomery.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
13 President, just briefly on this motion.
14 I certainly want to compliment
15 and applaud my colleague from Rochester for
16 bringing forth this motion and I'm sure, if we
17 could just have the opportunity to debate this
18 -- we have enough members in this house who
19 feel like he does, like I do, like many of us do
20 about the problem that he is addressing -- he
21 wishes to address through this legislation and
22 that is we want to reduce crime. We want to
23 save our young people. We know that having guns
24 in the hands of children is the most dangerous
25 thing to people in this state and the
2182
1 availability and the accessibility of these
2 weapons for youngsters, for people who are prone
3 to participate in criminal activities, is what
4 drives the problem and we know that we are going
5 to be faced -- if we don't do something to stem
6 this tide and to correct this problem, we're
7 going to be faced with a burden, a fiscal burden
8 that the state will not be able to withstand in
9 terms of the attempt to expand and create enough
10 beds so that everyone who is caught with a
11 weapon, everyone who attempts to use a weapon
12 eventually ends up needing a prison cell. We
13 cannot afford that, plus the lives of people are
14 at stake.
15 So let's, for one time, end the
16 history of this wonderful body. Let's have an
17 opportunity to debate the one piece of
18 legislation that will, in fact, without question
19 and without any reservation, will address the
20 issue of crime on our streets and will save
21 lives. We know that this is an attempt to save
22 lives of citizens in our state.
23 So, Senator Dollinger, I support
24 this resolution. I only hope that we are now at
25 the brink at this hour, even though it is late,
2183
1 I'm sure that it's not too late and there's
2 still plenty of time left in this day that we
3 could discuss and debate this legislation if we
4 all agree on this motion to discharge.
5 So I support it and thank you,
6 Mr. President, for allowing me to speak on this
7 motion.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
11 would you note the time for me?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I believe
13 it's about 7:54 -- excuse me -- 6:54.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, the
15 President is always ahead.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: My vision
17 is a little distorted because my stomach is
18 telling me something, Mr. President.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Because I
20 think it would be a good time to note in the
21 record that I would like to thank -- in addition
22 to Senator Dollinger who's fought for this
23 legislation for a number of years and has been
24 very vigorous in his advocacy and made a very
25 fine presentation, I would like to thank the
2184
1 Majority. I would like to thank the Majority
2 for allowing this motion to come before the
3 floor today under the Senate rules. We're also
4 going to have some motions on April 1st and
5 April 2nd which relate to a number of state
6 issues that we feel are critical and policies we
7 would like to be changed.
8 So in this spirit of the holidays
9 and spirit of good will and with greatest
10 brevity, especially with respect to Mr.
11 President's problem, I would like to just thank
12 the Majority. That's really all I have to say.
13 I'm not going to talk for the rest of the
14 session.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I would
19 just ask if Senator Dollinger would yield to a
20 question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Dollinger, do you yield to a question From
23 Senator gold?
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
25 President.
2185
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger,
4 I don't really understand the purpose of this
5 bill. As we stand here now, I have no training,
6 Senator Dollinger, in firearms. I have never
7 taken a course. I have never fired an assault
8 weapon but, Senator Dollinger, I can leave here
9 in my car right now and within ten minutes find
10 a place and another ten minutes own an assault
11 weapon and ammunition and walk out on the street
12 with it, even if I wasn't sober. Are you
13 telling me that if this bill passes, I can't do
14 that?
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's -
16 well, assuming, Senator, that we have a chance
17 to debate it and the Majority of this house
18 passed it -- the Assembly has already passed it
19 -- I'll carry it down to Governor Pataki's
20 desk. He can sign it right there and that's, in
21 fact, the case. If that happens tonight, as all
22 those other bills are making their way down
23 tonight, Senator, by 8:00 o'clock -- by 8:00
24 o'clock, we could actually be in a position
25 where at some time in the future it would be
2186
1 against the law do that. That's correct.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
3 yield to a question?
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
5 glad to, Mr. President.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I don't
7 like to admit this in public but, I mean, I
8 don't even have any money in my money clip, but
9 I do have a credit card and if your bill doesn't
10 pass, I think I can take my credit card, my lack
11 of experience, my no knowledge, drive ten
12 minutes and buy an assault weapon. You want to
13 stop me from doing that?
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's
15 exactly correct, Mr. President. I want to stop
16 that.
17 SENATOR GOLD: One last question,
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator,
20 do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will
22 continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Senator continues to yield.
25 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger,
2187
1 I and many others have heard you and other
2 members of this house debating this terrible
3 disease called one-house bills this year, last
4 year. Did you say that this bill that you're
5 moving to discharge has actually passed the
6 Assembly so that if we handled it and passed it,
7 it would not be a one-house bill; it would not
8 be a showman's piece. It would be something
9 that actually could become law?
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
11 Mr. President. This bill has passed the
12 Assembly. This bill, with 31 votes from this
13 chamber, goes down to the Governor. The
14 Governor of this state -- I would just point out
15 to you, Senator, the Governor of this state has
16 promised to sign a bill banning assault weapons
17 in New York State. So I assume, like all those
18 other promises he made in 1994, he'll keep this
19 promise, sign that bill.
20 Senator Gold, as I said, we could
21 probably be down in his office at quarter after
22 7:00 to have the bill signed.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if we
24 don't do that, I would be shocked.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
2188
1 any other Senator wishing to speak?
2 Senator Abate.
3 SENATOR ABATE: Very briefly. I
4 also stand in support of this motion to
5 discharge. I can't think of a better reason to
6 support this motion than to keep weapons such as
7 these out of the hands of Senator Gold.
8 (Laughter)
9 For that reason, I think
10 Republican and Democrats alike should support
11 this motion to discharge, but seriously -
12 SENATOR GOLD: I thought you were
13 serious.
14 SENATOR ABATE: And even more
15 seriously, these weapons are weapons of choice
16 for drug traffickers and street gangs and
17 paramilitary extremist groups. These weapons
18 are capable of rapid fire. They don't even need
19 to be aimed. They can be sprayed and innocent
20 people are killed. They're not for sporting.
21 These are weapons designed to effectively kill
22 as many people as efficiently as possible.
23 So we have to ask ourselves,
24 Republicans and Democrats alike, what are we
25 afraid of when we keep this bill in committee,
2189
1 not allowing it to be debated? Aren't we
2 letting down our constituents?
3 If you look at the polls, nine
4 out of ten people support sensible gun control.
5 Police and law enforcement throughout this state
6 are begging us to do the responsible thing
7 because they're being outnumbered. They are
8 risking their lives. They can't protect
9 citizens throughout this state because there is
10 not a ban on assault weapons. We talk all the
11 time about being tough and smart about crime.
12 How can we even pretend to be tough about crime
13 if we're allowing proliferation of assault
14 weapons on our street?
15 Let's do the right thing. Let's
16 join together. Let's save other lives by
17 supporting this motion to discharge. If we do
18 that, we will take a giant step forward to
19 making our streets safer.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 Senator Skelos, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
24 on this procedural motion, I'm going to ask for
25 a slow roll call.
2190
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there
2 five members in the chamber who are requesting a
3 slow roll call? Please stand. There are five.
4 The Secretary will call the roll
5 slowly.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Abate.
8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi.
10 SENATOR ALESI: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin.
12 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno.
14 (Negative indication)
15 Senator Connor.
16 (Affirmative indication)
17 Senator Cook, excused.
18 Senator DeFrancisco.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my
22 vote.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Dollinger, to explain his vote.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The
2191
1 opportunity to debate this bill is one we should
2 not pass up. It's one that we have an
3 opportunity now to do. We can make law. Don't
4 -- no bones about it. Here's the chance. Step
5 right up, one for a quarter, your chance to make
6 law.
7 There may be others who want to
8 characterize this in a particular fashion but
9 this is the only chance that we have today to
10 make this bill into law, and I would strongly
11 suggest that everyone vote in favor of this
12 motion to discharge.
13 Thank you, Mr. President. I'm
14 voting in the affirmative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Continue to call the roll slowly.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Gentile.
21 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
24 just to explain my vote.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2192
1 Gold, to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR GOLD: I want to express
3 my admiration for this to Senator Skelos and,
4 Senator Dollinger, don't feel badly. The reason
5 I'm expressing my admiration for Senator Skelos
6 is because he is a skilled, bright, intelligent
7 leader who knows how to kill an issue in a way
8 which perhaps will be less embarrassing for his
9 party but, Senator, I don't know what we
10 accomplished by that. It is really silliness.
11 If this is an issue where the
12 members of your party believe that they are
13 reflecting their constituencies by voting
14 against this or by holding back the bill, then
15 let them be here and let them put the bill out,
16 proudly cast a vote in the negative, but this is
17 not a nonsense issue. This is one of the
18 serious issues of our time.
19 Senator, I won't go through the
20 history of my buying an AK 47 within ten minutes
21 of the Capitol or buying a Tech 9 in Florida and
22 bringing it to New York and what is going on
23 with guns in America, and I know all the
24 nonsense arguments about guns don't kill people,
25 criminals do, et cetera, et cetera, but if your
2193
1 people believe that, Senator Skelos, let them
2 come to the floor. Let them put this bill out
3 and let's vote it.
4 The one thing I can say for the
5 people on my side who are here and who have
6 stayed, even though everybody knew that at some
7 point today we would handle this motion and some
8 people have left, the only thing I can say to
9 the people who are here and who are supporting
10 it is, God bless you. You understand the
11 seriousness of this issue and you are here to
12 put your money where your mouth is.
13 I vote absolutely in support of
14 this motion.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Continue to call the slow roll
18 call.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez,
20 excused.
21 Senator Goodman.
22 (There was no response.)
23 Senator Hannon.
24 (There was no response.)
25 Senator Hoffmann.
2194
1 (There was no response.)
2 Senator Holland.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Johnson.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Kruger.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Kuhl.
9 SENATOR KUHL: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Lack.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Larkin.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator LaValle.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Leibell.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Leichter.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Levy.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Libous.
25 (There was no response.)
2195
1 Senator Maltese.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Marcellino.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Marchi.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Markowitz.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Maziarz.
10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier.
12 SENATOR MEIER: No.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Montgomery.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
19 SENATOR NANULA: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
23 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator
25 Oppenheimer.
2196
1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explain my
2 vote.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I must be a
6 simpleton because I really can't understand what
7 we're doing here or why anybody would want to
8 put in a civil society such as a non-military
9 society these weapons. I -- it just boggles my
10 mind. It was created for war. It made sense in
11 war. It mowed down the maximum people in the
12 minimum time. I guess I'm not in favor of war
13 but at least that seems to have some usage.
14 I cannot understand what these
15 weapons are -- what purpose they serve in our
16 society and I cannot understand why the other
17 side of the aisle feels so strongly to protect
18 this.
19 We know that the vast majority of
20 the population of the state feels very strongly
21 about banning assault weapons. It's something
22 like 85 or 90 percent. So it can't be
23 political. We know that the police are very
24 strongly supportive of banning these assault
25 weapons. We know that if there is a collector
2197
1 out there who collects assault weapons, that
2 that's -- God bless him. Let him keep them. If
3 he uses them for marksmanship, fine. We know
4 that he ought to be able to keep them but -- as
5 you can see, I'm at a loss for words. I really
6 can't understand what these weapons are doing in
7 a civilian society.
8 I'm voting yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Oppenheimer recorded in the affirmative.
11 Continue to call the slow roll
12 call.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Senator Rosado.
22 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
24 (There was no response.)
25 Senator Sampson.
2198
1 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago.
3 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seabrook.
5 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
11 SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Stachowski.
15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Stavisky.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Trunzo.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Tully.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Velella.
25 (There was no response.)
2199
1 Senator Volker.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Waldon.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Waldon, to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
7 much, Mr. President.
8 My colleagues, some of you may
9 have seen a film called The Killing Fields and
10 in that film, weapons that we're talking about
11 banning with Senator Dollinger's proposal, were
12 everywhere. These weapons are really not for
13 target practice. I know better than most
14 because I spent many hours of my life at the
15 pistol range, Throgs Neck in the Bronx, at the
16 pistol range, 69th Regiment Armory in New York
17 City. I traveled around the east participating
18 in pistol matches because I had a keen eye and a
19 steady hand, and I know what these weapons will
20 do.
21 These are not recreational
22 devices. These are killing weapons. They are
23 made to kill and to maim and, if you read
24 anything in the newspapers and magazines which
25 report the incidents of injuries and deaths
2200
1 resulting from having weapons in the home, you
2 see all too often that 75 percent of the people
3 who die are not the burglars but the people who
4 live in those homes, that people who have these
5 devices of havoc sometimes lose their children
6 because they play with these weapons of
7 destruction and we're playing with life when we
8 bend to the will of the National Rifle
9 Association in somebody's bottom line.
10 I hate to revisit this time and
11 time again, but it is somebody's bottom line
12 which is driving this issue in our chamber.
13 These weapons are very costly. Somebody makes
14 lots of money each time one is sold, even those
15 which are sold illegally. It's interesting that
16 on such an important issue, on such a life and
17 death issue, there are so few of us in the
18 chamber.
19 We often talk about our respect
20 for life and we argue abortion issues and when
21 we argue the positions that we take respective
22 to abortion in this state. Why are not all of
23 the members of the Senate here to talk about
24 this issue which also results in death? I think
25 it is a sin and a shame that we are so two-faced
2201
1 about something that is so destructive as these
2 weapons.
3 I would encourage everyone to
4 recognize the genius of Senator Dollinger this
5 time and to support what he's trying to do.
6 I think the moral imperative is
7 that we must vote yes on his proposal, and I
8 vote aye, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Waldon will be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Continue to call the slow roll
12 call.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
14 (There was no response.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 absentees.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 DeFrancisco.
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Goodman.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Hannon.
25 (There was no response.)
2202
1 Senator Hoffmann.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Holland.
4 (There was no response.)
5 Senator Johnson.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Senator Kruger.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Lachman.
10 (There was no response.)
11 Senator Lack.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Larkin.
14 (There was no response.)
15 Senator LaValle.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Senator Leibell.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Senator Leichter.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Senator Levy.
22 (There was no response.)
23 Senator Libous.
24 (There was no response.)
25 Senator Maltese.
2203
1 SENATOR MALTESE: Explain my
2 vote, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Maltese, to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR MALTESE: I would just
6 like to comment for a moment on the statement of
7 my good colleague, Senator Waldon, referring to
8 the genius of my colleague, Senator Dollinger.
9 I think he bemoaned the fact
10 correctly that the chamber is empty, but I
11 question the genius of putting in a motion to
12 discharge on the Wednesday before Holy Thursday
13 and Good Friday at approximately 7:00 o'clock in
14 the evening and ensuring the attendance of all
15 the Senators who had previously made plans and
16 are on their way home.
17 Mr. President, I vote nay.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Maltese will be recorded in the negative.
20 Continue to call the slow roll
21 call.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Marcellino.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Dollinger, you're out of order. Please sit
2204
1 down.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand
3 that, Mr. President. So was the other comment.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Markowitz.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Padavan.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Senator Rath.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Senator Saland.
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Seward.
15 (There was no response.)
16 Senator Spano.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Stafford.
19 (There was no response.)
20 Senator Stavisky.
21 (There was no response.)
22 Senator Trunzo.
23 (There was no response.)
24 Senator Tully.
25 (There was no response.)
2205
1 Senator Velella.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Waldon -- excuse me -
4 Senator Volker.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Wright.
7 (There was no response.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
9 the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 18, nays 11.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 motion is defeated.
14 Senator Waldon, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
16 wish to have my name called to see how my vote
17 was recorded. I believe that's in keeping with
18 procedures of the house.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Waldon is recorded in the affirmative.
21 SENATOR WALDON: Which allows me
22 to speak at this moment.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's
24 not correct, Senator Waldon. You're not given
25 the -
2206
1 SENATOR WALDON: That's not
2 correct?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're
4 not given the floor. Did you wish to change
5 your vote? With unanimous consent, you can do
6 that.
7 SENATOR WALDON: No, I do not
8 wish to do that, Mr. President.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
10 there being no further business, I move we
11 adjourn until Tuesday, April 1st, at 3:00 p.m.
12 sharp -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 motion is to adjourn. Without objection -
15 SENATOR SKELOS: -- intervening
16 days to be legislative days, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- the
18 Senate stands adjourned.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson, do you have an announcement?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. I would
23 like to announce that on Tuesday, April 1st and
24 Wednesday, April 2nd, we will offer the other
25 motions for discharge as is in keeping with the
2207
1 Senate rules as it was just now.
2 The motion for discharge offered
3 by Senator Dollinger was pursuant to the rules
4 of the Senate. It was not Senator Dollinger's
5 choice to raise this now. It was our rule. It
6 comes after the calendar and we will take note
7 of that in the future.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you
9 for your announcement, Senator Paterson.
10 The Senate stands adjourned.
11 (Whereupon, at 7:19 p.m., the
12 Senate adjourned.)
13
14
15
16
17
18