Regular Session - May 29, 1997
4332
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 May 29, 1997
10 10:06 a.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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4333
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their chairs, the staff to find their
5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to
6 rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to
7 the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may we
11 bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed.)
14 The reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Wednesday, May 28th. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, May 27th,
18 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
23 I have a question about the Journal. I just
24 wanted to determine how many bills were passed
25 in the house yesterday.
4334
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
2 informed by the Secretary that six bills were
3 passed.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Six?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes.
6 Does that answer your question?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Just one
8 second, Mr. President. I'm just trying to
9 compute my earned run average.
10 Would the Secretary read the
11 bills that we passed.
12 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Tully, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR TULLY: While we are
16 waiting, could you tell me how many bills were
17 laid aside by the Minority yesterday?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
19 informed 20 by the Secretary.
20 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Skelos, why do you rise?
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Stretching my
25 legs.
4335
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 titles that were passed yesterday, for your
3 benefit, Senator Paterson, are not in the
4 house. They're at the Journal Clerk's office.
5 They're being brought down, if you would like us
6 to do that, so we can read those titles to you.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr.
8 President. Are the bills -- so you're saying
9 that the bills are not in the actual Journal
10 itself.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: They are
12 never included, I'm informed by the Secretary,
13 in the Journal itself.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Gold, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I,
18 as one of your admirers -- and that is not said
19 in jest; that is said in actuality -- I know you
20 would not want to have an inaccurate statement
21 that was attributed to you and, Mr. President, I
22 think that not only do the Journals reflect the
23 bill numbers but, as you and I both know, Mr.
24 President, the Journals reflect the language
25 that is uttered by each member of this
4336
1 distinguished body from the time we start to the
2 time that we end, and that is why we have the
3 greatest respect for the young lady sitting here
4 today and for her colleagues who take down these
5 words very, very carefully. So it may be that
6 the words that were uttered today by our
7 distinguished Journal Clerk did not -
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 if the request has been made of the bills listed
10 in the Journal, we can stand at ease, get the
11 Journal and we'll read the names of the -- the
12 numbers of the bills that were passed yesterday,
13 if that's the request of the Minority.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I have
15 them now. They have been provided to me by the
16 Journal Clerk.
17 Senator Paterson, would you like
18 the numbers read?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you so
20 much, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 numbers of the bills that passed yesterday at
23 session were Senate 1659-A, Senate 2648, Senate
24 3267, Senate 3679-A, Senate 4084-A, Senate
25 3479.
4337
1 Now, does anybody have an
2 objection to the Journal?
3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Gold, you have an objection?
6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
7 President. The -- having given Senator Paterson
8 the information as to the bills that were
9 passed, it's my understanding that the Journal
10 would also include the votes on those particular
11 bills and if we are being asked to approve the
12 Journal, I know that's something that we all
13 take seriously and -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you
15 like to know the votes, Senator Gold?
16 SENATOR GOLD: I would be very
17 grateful -- I would be very grateful, Mr.
18 President -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
20 Certainly.
21 SENATOR GOLD: -- if we could
22 have the roll calls read for each of the bills
23 we passed.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
4338
1 Certainly, Senator Gold.
2 On the first bill, Senate 1659-A,
3 the vote was 60 to 0.
4 On the second bill, Senate 2648,
5 the vote was 60 to 0.
6 On the third bill, Senate 3267,
7 the vote was 60 to 0.
8 On the fourth bill, Senate
9 3679-A, the vote was 60 to 0.
10 On the fifth bill, Senate 4084-A,
11 the vote was 50 ayes, nays 8.
12 On the sixth and final bill that
13 was passed yesterday, the vote was -- that was
14 Senate 3479, the vote was 60 to 0.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 With regard to, I think it was
18 the sixth bill where the vote was 50 to 8, can
19 we have a detailed statement so we can verify
20 those votes?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Journal would reflect that there were eight
23 nays, those nays being Senator Leichter, Senator
24 Mendez, Senator Montgomery, Senator Paterson,
25 Senator Rosado, Senator Seabrook and Senator
4339
1 Smith and Senator Waldon.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 And, Mr. President, does the
5 Journal indicate the debate that was had on that
6 particular piece of legislation?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Just one
8 second, Mr. President. Those were nine nays
9 that I counted.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do
11 have a remedial reading -- or arithmetic course
12 out in the lobby, Senator Paterson, if you would
13 like to partake in that. That is for members
14 who can't count beyond or even on more than one
15 hand the numbers of nays.
16 Senator Gold, did you wish to
17 make another request or have another objection
18 to the Journal?
19 SENATOR GOLD: Well, my objection
20 to the Journal, Mr. President, is that the
21 Journal has not been read and while there are
22 amenities that sometimes go back and forth from
23 one side of the aisle to the other -- the key
24 words to that statement are "back and forth" -
25 and when it stops going back and there's no
4340
1 forth, that causes some problems.
2 So, Mr. President, I would like
3 the -- if we're being asked to approve the
4 Journal, I would like the Journal read. The
5 Journal includes debate. It includes the votes,
6 as you have just indicated, with detailed
7 statements, not summary statements, and that is
8 my objection.
9 My objection is that if we are
10 being asked to vote, I would like the Journal
11 read.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
16 immediate meeting of the Majority Conference in
17 the Majority Conference Room.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate
19 meeting of the Majority Conference in the
20 Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
21 The Senate will stand at ease.
22 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
23 ease from 10:20 a.m. until 11:00 a.m.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Senate will come to order.
4341
1 The Chair recognizes Senator
2 Bruno.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
4 can we at this time call for an immediate
5 meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
7 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
8 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
9 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the
10 Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
11 The Senate will continue to stand
12 at ease.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
14 ease from 11:01 a.m. until 1:10 p.m.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
17 find their places, the staff to find their
18 places.
19 Senator Bruno.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
21 can we return to motions of standing committees
22 -- reports of standing committees.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
24 Mr. President.
25 SENATOR BRUNO: I believe there's
4342
1 a Rules Committee report at the desk. I would
2 ask that it be read.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
4 Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: What's
6 your point of order, Senator Gold?
7 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I would
8 just like the Chair to clarify something for
9 me. We came into session today and following
10 the order of business, the Journal had been
11 offered and we were in the order of business of
12 dealing with the Journal when there was a recess
13 that was taken for a Republican Conference.
14 When we came back from the
15 Republican Conference, I believe there was a
16 call or an announcement that the Rules Committee
17 would be meeting but I don't believe, Mr.
18 President, we have ever left the order of
19 business of dealing with the Journal, and I
20 would -- my point of order, Mr. President, is
21 that I believe we ought to be following the
22 order of business as set forth in our rules and
23 should conclude the first order of business
24 dealing with the Journal before we go on to
25 other orders of business.
4343
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Gold, thank you for giving me the time to review
3 the rules because I don't have these memorized
4 and I have to refer to counsel and that sort of
5 thing. Your recollection of the process that we
6 had is absolutely in order and we were debating
7 -- I shouldn't say debating. There was no
8 motion. We were talking about corrections to
9 the Journal. You had information -- you had not
10 offered any corrections, but if you go to the
11 rules and under Rule VII, paragraph (2), it
12 talks about the Committee on Rules and what you
13 will see is it says "The Committee on Rules may
14 sit at any time" -- and I'm reading this. "The
15 reception/consideration of its reports shall
16 always be in order."
17 So it would be the ruling of the
18 Chair that the report of the Rules Committee,
19 which the Majority Leader has just asked be
20 accepted, is in order at this time.
21 So I'll ask the Secretary to read
22 the report of the Rules Committee. The motion
23 has been made to accept that and certainly
24 that's a question which could be debated.
25 So I'll ask the Secretary to read
4344
1 the report of the Rules Committee and then, if
2 you would like to make a further objection, I'll
3 certainly recognize you for that.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Chair
5 indulge me in one question, please.
6 Mr. Chairman -- Mr. President,
7 first of all, lest you misunderstand, I'm
8 delighted you are in the chair because you do
9 read the rules and I have some degree of comfort
10 that, even though I may lose one here or there,
11 I'm dealing with someone who will try to find a
12 reason for my losing.
13 Mr. President, I think you're
14 right. My question is, we read the Rules report
15 and discuss whether it should be adopted or
16 not. At that point, am I not correct, that, if
17 we are going to do any further business, we are
18 back with our Journal?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think I
20 would like to approach that, Senator Gold, when
21 the issue comes rather than make a predetermined
22 ruling.
23 SENATOR GOLD: All right. I
24 don't have an objection to that, as long as you
25 and I are on target as to where we were and
4345
1 where we're going.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will read the report of the Rules
4 Committee.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
6 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
7 following bills:
8 Senate Print 898, by Senator
9 Cook, an act to amend the General Business Law;
10 2068, by Senator Holland, an act
11 to amend the Tax Law;
12 3188, by Senator Seward, an act
13 to amend the General Municipal Law;
14 3596, by the Senate Committee on
15 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;
16 3965, by Senator Johnson, an act
17 authorizing the assessor of the town of Islip;
18 4473, by Senator Libous, an act
19 to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga County;
20 4474-A, by Senator Libous, an act
21 to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm;
22 4499, by Senator Tully, an act
23 authorizing the assessor of the county of
24 Nassau;
25 4522, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
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1 act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967;
2 4767, by Senator Marchi, an act
3 to amend the Business Corporation Law;
4 4790, by Senator Seward, an act
5 to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6 4899, by Senator Saland, an act
7 to authorize the town of Washington in the
8 county of Dutchess;
9 4912, by Senator Alesi, an act to
10 amend the General Business Law;
11 5125, by Senator LaValle, an act
12 to amend the Town Law;
13 5212, by Senator Volker, an act
14 to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of 1996;
15 5277, by Senator Stachowski, an
16 act to legalize, validate and confirm the
17 validity of certain actions;
18 5280, by Senator Volker, an act
19 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to causing
20 the death of a peace officer;
21 5294, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
22 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
23 assault of bus drivers; and
24 52 -- 53... rather ...52, by the
25 Senate Committee on Rules, an act providing for
4347
1 the establishment of the New York State
2 Commission.
3 All bills ordered directly for
4 third reading.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Bruno, the motion is to accept the report of the
7 Rules Committee.
8 SENATOR BRUNO: So moved, Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, on
12 the motion -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Dollinger.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I have an
16 explanation of why we need to accept the Rules
17 Committee report from the Temporary President?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Bruno, do you yield to a question from Senator
20 Dollinger?
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
22 believe there is a motion on the floor. I would
23 like to dispense with the motion and then we
24 would be happy to answer whatever questions that
25 we -- are appropriate.
4348
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President, the motion is a debatable motion, is
3 it not?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I ask the
6 Temporary President then why we need to accept
7 the Rules Committee report at this time?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And the
9 way I interpreted the Majority Leader's answer
10 was that he did not wish to yield.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there
12 anyone on the Rules Committee -- in the Majority
13 on the Rules Committee or in support of the
14 Rules Committee -- perhaps even Senator Gold -
15 who participated in the Rules Committee
16 deliberations who can inform me as to why -
17 would Senator Gold yield then?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Bruno.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Excuse me, Mr.
21 President. If you have a question -- I
22 understand that the motion on the floor -- the
23 Minority has a half hour to debate and it's
24 apparent that they want to run the clock rather
25 than do anything constructive. So we'll start
4349
1 running the clock as of three minutes ago, and I
2 would be happy to answer your question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senator yields, Senator Dollinger.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll rephrase
6 the question I asked earlier. Could someone
7 explain to me why we need to accept the Rules
8 Committee report at this time.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
10 we're accepting it at this time so that we can
11 proceed with the -- with a vote and a discussion
12 of each of the bills that will be reported and
13 is being reported out of the Rules Committee.
14 That's the purpose of accepting the motion.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
16 you, Mr. President, if the Temporary President
17 would continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Bruno, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any
25 reason why these bills couldn't be dealt with in
4350
1 the normal course of our procedure, that they
2 couldn't be referred to first reading, why they
3 would have to all be referred to third reading,
4 through you, Mr. President?
5 SENATOR BRUNO: Because that's
6 our preference for the day, Senator, and we're
7 trying to move towards some orderly adjournment
8 in the house and we're trying to dispose of
9 bills as they come before us as efficiently as
10 we can.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
12 you, Mr. President, if the Temporary President
13 would yield just to one question. Were there
14 any Minority reports filed with any of the bills
15 that came through the Rules Committee?
16 SENATOR BRUNO: I'm told by those
17 that were in attendance that there was much
18 discussion by the Minority on a number of the
19 bills that are about to be before us, if that
20 answers your question. So whatever discussion
21 was appropriate took place, as I understand it,
22 and at the conclusion of the discussion, votes
23 were taken and that's why we have an agenda
24 before us.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr.
4351
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
5 glad to yield the floor, I believe to Senator
6 Gold or anyone else who would like to address
7 this issue. I just don't understand -- I know
8 there was a lengthy series of deliberations in
9 the Rules Committee about these bills. I
10 understand that there may be several very
11 controversial bills, that there were questions
12 raised and questions asked about these bills. I
13 wish that we could hear a greater report of what
14 actually happened in the Rules Committee so that
15 we would be enlightened and perhaps the debate
16 on the bills when they come to the floor would
17 be enhanced. We would perhaps save some time if
18 we knew what went on before and ideally would
19 facilitate the process rather than slow it
20 down.
21 So from my point of view, I would
22 hope that there would be some explanation.
23 Perhaps Senator Gold or someone else who
24 participated might give us some explanation
25 about what happened and why we need to accept
4352
1 the report at this time.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 DeFrancisco, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would
5 Senator Dollinger yield to a question?
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Dollinger, do you yield to a question from
9 Senator -
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
11 Dollinger, were you in the chambers when -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 DeFrancisco, let me just find out if Senator
14 Dollinger yields.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
16 glad to, Senator.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger yields.
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Were you in
20 the chambers when the Rules Committee meeting
21 was called?
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Actually -
23 through you, Mr. President. I'm not sure why
24 that relates -- that question has any relation
25 to the debate about whether to accept it or not,
4353
1 but I'd be glad to answer it anyway.
2 I was in the Rules Committee and
3 listened to part of the debate in the Rules
4 Committee. I was in the chamber for most of the
5 period of time awaiting the Rules Committee
6 report. I'm simply trying to find out -- since
7 I didn't stay there for the whole time and I
8 didn't hear all the discussion, I'm simply
9 trying to find out what happened -- trying to
10 find out what happened in the Rules Committee.
11 Maybe that will enlighten us here, those who
12 weren't members of the Rules Committee and will
13 be able to better debate the bills when they
14 actually come to the floor.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you
16 yield to another question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
20 you, Mr. President, assuming it's relevant to
21 the issue on the floor, I would be glad to.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I assume
23 the Senators yields with that response.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So I assume
25 that that answer means that you knew that there
4354
1 was a Rules Committee meeting. You could have
2 attended the Rules Committee. You chose to
3 attend part of it and listen to the debate but
4 you chose not to attend the balance of it.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think
6 that's probably a fair characterization, Mr.
7 President, of my choice in the matter. That's
8 correct.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you
10 could have been there for the whole meeting, had
11 you chose to get all the information that you
12 wanted to get firsthand rather than secondhand
13 through this procedure that you're now calling
14 upon.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again
16 through you, Mr. President. That's entirely
17 true. I think any member in the chamber could
18 go to every single committee meeting and learn
19 -- on every single bill that's going to come
20 before the floor and we could all participate in
21 the committee process. I think that would be a
22 wonderful thing to do. Maybe we should all be
23 members of the standing committees so that we
24 can all go to committees and all vote on that.
25 I think, Senator, that that may actually have
4355
1 some validity.
2 Why don't we just take the whole
3 chamber and put it in every committee room and
4 then every member can go and listen to every
5 single debate in committee so that we're fully
6 informed before we come before the floor.
7 I think that suggestion may have
8 some merit and maybe we should just dismantle
9 the whole committee approach and make everybody
10 a member of every standing committee. I assume
11 that's what you're suggesting we should do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 DeFrancisco.
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
15 Senator yield to one last question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Dollinger, do you yield to one question?
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
19 glad to, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
23 Dollinger, isn't it true that you were evoking
24 this procedure today merely to delay the process
25 today so that we will do nothing productive?
4356
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
2 Mr. President. I always find it interesting
3 that when you ask questions and you give answers
4 and you ask further questions, the only reaction
5 or apparently the reaction is, Gee, there's some
6 reason -- there's some other reason than gaining
7 knowledge and information. It seems to me that
8 that's what we're here for.
9 I was on the floor, I think a
10 couple days ago when I wanted to put an
11 amendment to Senator Stafford's bill and, my
12 gosh, it couldn't get to the floor. It was
13 impossible to get it to the floor. A vital
14 issue to my community, critical to my community,
15 couldn't make it to the floor. So I decided
16 that I would step up and try to interject in the
17 proceedings the passion, the commitment that I
18 bring to this chamber representing the 300,000
19 people in Monroe County that I was elected to
20 represent.
21 I brought it to this chamber. I
22 made every effort that I could to get that bill
23 heard to try to make sure that the people in my
24 district got what I thought they needed. It
25 didn't work. It didn't work.
4357
1 Was I stalling that day? Was I
2 delaying that day? I don't think so. I think I
3 was representing the people of my community in
4 doing what they sent me to Albany to do.
5 Today, by asking this question of
6 why do we suddenly have to take a Rules
7 Committee report today -- today, in late June,
8 suddenly we have to bring a Rules Committee
9 report to the floor of this chamber, bills that
10 we could have dealt with at any other time,
11 bills that we could have done during the course
12 of the last couple weeks, bills that, in my
13 judgment, we could have done in January and
14 February when we were doing five bills a day.
15 For some reason we had to take a Rules Committee
16 report, bring it to the floor today and all of a
17 sudden do these 20 bills which are now vitally
18 important to the people of the state of New
19 York.
20 Before I vote to accept that
21 motion, before I decide that that's the right
22 thing for me to do on behalf of my constituents,
23 I think the rules of this house, which I have
24 been quoted ad nauseam in my career in this
25 house, provide me with the opportunity to ask
4358
1 why. What's the big deal? Why does this all
2 have to be done now? Why couldn't it be done in
3 February when we were doing five bills a day or
4 March when we were doing six bills a day or
5 April when we were doing six bills a day?
6 For some reason it wasn't
7 important to do it then but it's vitally
8 important to do it now and when we ask why,
9 we're told, You must be stalling.
10 I don't know. What did we do in
11 January, February, March and April, Senator?
12 What did the Majority do? Were you stalling? I
13 don't know. I'm trying to find out today what's
14 going on.
15 If somebody will give me an
16 answer, a straight answer, I would be glad to
17 take it back home to the people that I
18 represent. I'll give them the message and then
19 I'll make up my mind as to what I ought to do.
20 That's what I'm trying to do,
21 trying to find out what's happening. I don't
22 know why we're accused of stalling when for
23 months we did five bills a day. I mean, that's
24 a question you have to ask yourself.
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I ask
4359
1 Senator Dollinger another question?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Dollinger, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
5 glad to, Mr. President.
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would
7 wonder if you could answer a question simply yes
8 or no without the lecture of seven weeks of the
9 sessions of the New York State Senate.
10 Now, very simply, can you do
11 that? Can you answer this next question yes or
12 no and the question is simply, is the reason you
13 are asking for this procedure today to delay
14 today's proceedings?
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
16 President, through you, the answer to that is
17 clearly no. I'm not doing it for that reason.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You
19 answered it. Thank you.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But I'm not
21 -- certainly I've got the floor right now. You
22 asked a question. Let me tell you why "no" is
23 the right answer, because -- and I'll remind you
24 that the people of this state are wondering,
25 what's going on in the Senate chamber? I'm
4360
1 talking to people out and they're wondering
2 what's happening? We're now talking about
3 locking up the Senate chamber. We're going to
4 go behind bars. We're going to cut the public
5 out. We're going to -- somehow there's some
6 reason, there's some urgency created today. All
7 of sudden these Rules bills have to come to the
8 floor. They couldn't have come to the floor the
9 day before or the day before that or weeks
10 before that but they're vitally important
11 today.
12 Well, I don't know. I sit here
13 and say, why are they that important to come
14 today? Why do these bills have to come today?
15 I asked that question. I haven't gotten a
16 straight answer yet. I'll continue to ask it
17 until I do.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 -- excuse me, Senator Dollinger.
21 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator
23 Dollinger yield to a question?
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be
25 glad to, Mr. President.
4361
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger,
2 are you aware of the fact that there is a bill
3 on the Rules agenda, Senate 3596, which is
4 sponsored by the Rules Committee -- apparently
5 nobody wanted to put their name on it -- and
6 that this bill would extend the sales and use
7 taxes for the city of White Plains and that
8 apparently tomorrow the city of White Plains has
9 to do something with regard to their budget and
10 the existing sales tax, I'm told runs out, I
11 believe on August 31st of this year and,
12 therefore, the city of White Plains has to know
13 that this passes in order to do their budget.
14 Having said that, do you know
15 that this bill was introduced by "Senator Rules"
16 on March 14th? Can you tell me why the Majority
17 in this house has found it necessary to hold the
18 city of White Plains hostage from March 14th
19 through the end of March, through the entire
20 month of April, now through the entire month of
21 May so that they could get to the Rules
22 Committee today shivering and say to people,
23 Don't hold up the session. White Plains needs
24 this.
25 Well, maybe the people in White
4362
1 Plains ought to know that they didn't have to be
2 held up. We didn't need Senator Spano to do his
3 lobbying today, which I admire because you're
4 worried about that city, Senator, and I
5 congratulate you, but if it wasn't for your
6 Majority Leader, who you voted for and I didn't
7 -- I'll remind him of that -- the city of White
8 Plains would not have been held hostage.
9 So do you know of any reason,
10 Senator Dollinger, why the city of White Plains
11 couldn't get this bill passed on March 15th or
12 16th or 17th or 18th, et cetera?
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger, before you answer, Senator Libous,
16 why do you rise?
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, point
18 of information. I believe the Majority Leader
19 had a motion on the floor. I'm not clear as to
20 whether or not the Majority Leader had yielded
21 the floor to either one of the Senators who are
22 now debating.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Libous, the procedure is that there was a motion
25 to accept the report of the Rules Committee.
4363
1 That motion is debatable. It has a one-hour
2 time limit. A half hour is dedicated to the
3 Minority. A half hour is dedicated to the
4 Majority. At this point the Minority is
5 debating that motion. They are now into it
6 about 16 minutes and so there's about 14 minutes
7 left to debate that motion.
8 So, Senator Dollinger, you now
9 can answer Senator Gold's question.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In response
11 to Senator Gold's question, I don't know why
12 that bill introduced in March suddenly became
13 important today and why we had to wait three
14 months but, Senator, I get the feeling that
15 that's a trend around here. There's a trend
16 developing.
17 As I recall, Senator Connor
18 introduced a bill relatively early in this
19 session that would extend the rent controls in
20 New York City and that bill hasn't found its way
21 to the floor yet. That bill hasn't been here
22 and I just get the sense that maybe I detect
23 some kind of pattern as far as bills being filed
24 and then all of a sudden we wait until the last
25 second deadline before we do anything.
4364
1 I don't know about you, Senator
2 Gold. I won't attribute any extra legislative
3 motivation to that. I assume that there's a
4 very good reason why White Plains couldn't have
5 its sales tax done in March and it couldn't have
6 it done in April and it couldn't have it done in
7 early May and, frankly, I think it would be
8 wonderful if someone would explain to me in the
9 course of this -
10 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
11 would Senator Dollinger yield to a question?
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President, I decline to do that until I finish
14 my response to Senator Gold. I -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Saland, the Senator refuses to yield at this
17 moment.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So I think,
19 Senator Gold, I'm waiting for someone to give me
20 that explanation. I don't know the answer to
21 your question. I'm intrigued by it, as I think
22 you are, and frankly, for some reason these
23 bills are -- these 20 bills, how many bills come
24 out of Rules are suddenly extremely important
25 today and before we accept the Rules Committee,
4365
1 we ought to judge whether or not they're really
2 that important and, frankly, Senator Gold, I'm
3 willing, if what you say is true -- I mean, I
4 don't know that you're the sponsor of that bill
5 but if what you say is true that White Plains
6 needs this to get its fiscal house in order and
7 needs an indication from this Legislature today
8 that that sales tax will be extended, that would
9 be a reason, in my judgment, to vote to accept
10 that portion of the Rules Committee report
11 because that's something we ought to do, but the
12 rest of the bills, I'm not quite so sure.
13 So I'm willing to let anyone give
14 me further edification as to why I ought to
15 accept the report on that basis.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman
17 yield to a further question?
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will, Mr.
19 President.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
21 Senator Dollinger, you -- I want
22 the record clear on one item. I know, Senator
23 Dollinger, that from my point of view, whatever
24 else happens today, I am certainly prepared to
25 support the bill dealing with the White Plains
4366
1 issue. I was ready to support it all along if
2 that's what they want. It's my understanding
3 that there are other members on this side who
4 are willing to support it.
5 My question, so I understand it,
6 to you, Senator, is that if we were to go to the
7 White Plains bill, for example, which has been a
8 captive of the Republican Party in this house
9 since March 14th, do I understand from your
10 comments you would support it?
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
12 Mr. President. I'm frankly not sure. I would
13 like to hear the sponsor explain why it's
14 needed. As you may know, Senator, I have voted
15 against sales tax extensions for the most part
16 because I don't think it's good public policy to
17 do that in many cases. So I have been
18 consistent -- I think Senator Gentile and I have
19 been leading the fight to try to reduce taxes
20 across the state by voting against those sales
21 tax extensions, so -- but I would like to hear
22 the explanation before I elect to do that.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
24 yield to a question?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4367
1 Dollinger, do you continue to yield to Senator
2 Gold?
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in that
8 particular one instance, you would have no
9 objection to the Senate taking up that bill
10 today.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Absolutely
12 not. Absolutely not.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It should be
15 taken up. As I said, even though I have a
16 personal opinion -- and I think Senator Gentile
17 and I have demonstrated by voting against those
18 sales tax extenders. Even though I'm not
19 inclined to do it, I think the Majority of this
20 house, consistent with its usual rules, should
21 adopt that bill if it deems it to be appropriate
22 but, again, Senator Gold, I still -- I still
23 haven't heard an explanation from anyone as to
24 why it was held captive for so long. I assume
25 you're not the sponsor of the bill. Maybe the
4368
1 sponsor can tell me why it needs to be done
2 today. What is there about May 29th that
3 suggests that a tax that expires -- I recall you
4 said April -- or August 31st -- what is there
5 about May 29th that makes this the day that it
6 has to be done? I don't quite understand.
7 I will now yield to Senator
8 Saland, if he's so inclined.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Dollinger, do you have any further statements on
11 the motion?
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have none,
13 Mr. President.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Gold.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. If -- if
18 Senator Dollinger is finished, I would like to
19 make some comments, if I can, and I want the
20 record to be very clear on this.
21 The debate, as you know, Mr.
22 President, under the rules, indicates a half
23 hour for each side, and I think we ought to stay
24 by that, but that's why I am standing up to
25 throw my support for the acceptance of the Rules
4369
1 report. So please attribute my time, not along
2 with those who may be opposed but for those who
3 are in support, which is a different half hour.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Gold, the Chair would beg to differ with you.
6 You are on the Minority time. So don't be under
7 the impression that simply making a statement
8 that you're altering the rules. The Chair is
9 logging your time against the Minority's time,
10 of which there are about 13 minutes left.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
12 know, as you said before, that you are not
13 conversant by memory with all of the rules -
14 none of us are but you are better than most, but
15 I would refer you to Rule Number II, which says
16 that one half hour for and one half hour
17 against. It does not say that it is -- it does
18 not say that it's one side or the other.
19 Now, it is true that the Majority
20 Leader has a right to attribute some time and so
21 does the Minority Leader. So maybe I ought to
22 ask the Acting Temporary President whether I can
23 help in this thing and get some of your time to
24 convince them we ought to approve it.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Gold,
4370
1 when you're speaking, the eloquence of your
2 remarks are sufficient and I will sit here and
3 enjoy them for the next 20 minutes.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. I now
5 have been allocated 20 minutes by the Majority
6 Leader.
7 Mr. President, let me tell you,
8 every one of us -- every one of us is not one
9 thing. We're a mixture of things and I was
10 very, very hurt to find out that, in voting
11 against Senator Bruno to be the leader of this
12 house, he took that personally and felt
13 offended, and the reason that I was hurt is
14 because my vote against him as a leader was not
15 a vote against him to play golf with him or to
16 have dinner with him or to spend time with him
17 because, as everyone in this house will attest,
18 Senator Bruno, when he wants to be, is a very
19 charming and delightful gentleman, intelligent
20 and bright.
21 My vote against him as a leader
22 was for different reasons and obviously Senator
23 Goodman and Senator Padavan had a different
24 feeling, but when I heard that Senator Bruno was
25 going to destroy the tenant population of my
4371
1 city, I couldn't vote for him for leader because
2 I'm voting for him to carry out an agenda and so
3 when Senator Spano and others who were in that
4 predicament with their tenant population gave up
5 the ball game to Senator Bruno, it was too late,
6 but that wasn't a personal vote on my part at
7 all.
8 The other thing which amazes me a
9 little bit -- and I have this in a newspaper
10 story in Queens last week -- I always get amazed
11 that Republicans get offended when you tell the
12 truth about them.
13 Now, Senator Dollinger was asked
14 whether or not he was doing anything to delay
15 the session and, as a matter of fact, I think
16 Senator DeFrancisco said, Are you trying to stop
17 us from doing productive things.
18 The answer is, Senator
19 DeFrancisco, even though you didn't ask me the
20 question, I would never stop this chamber from
21 doing productive things but what you think is
22 productive and what I think is productive may
23 differ. I don't think one-house bills are
24 productive. I don't think holding hostage the
25 municipalities of this state who happen to be
4372
1 represented by Democrats is productive. I think
2 it's kindergarten. I think some of the things
3 that happen in this house are kindergarten.
4 Whenever we get into this
5 discussion, there's always a Republican who
6 stands up and says, Well, you know, I was in the
7 Minority in the Assembly and I know what can
8 happen and all of this.
9 I want to give you an example of
10 something. I want to tell you class versus
11 kindergarten. When the Yankees came up here -
12 the Yankees don't belong to anybody and the
13 Speaker of the Assembly invited the Republicans
14 in with the Democratic members to meet the
15 Yankees. In this house, you scurried the
16 Yankees into your little conference room, kept
17 it quiet and when you came out to the floor,
18 some of you were giggling like babies about how
19 you had created a coup.
20 Gentlemen and lady, we are not
21 kindergartners. We are all 21 and older. I
22 mean, to get a kick out of the concept that you
23 can take a couple of Yankees and bring them in a
24 room and do that is infantile and then when it
25 came out here to who would speak -- well,
4373
1 Senator Velella does represent part of the Bronx
2 and part of another county but there's a lady by
3 the name of Olga Mendez who represents the area
4 where Yankee Stadium is. You don't think that
5 granting the simple courtesy to let that lady
6 say some words was nothing more than infantile
7 conduct? I mean, is the ego so elitist on your
8 part of the aisle that you think any bit of
9 credit that you give to this part of the aisle
10 diminishes whatever you have left? That is just
11 nonsense.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President.
14 SENATOR GOLD: I won't yield
15 right now, sir.
16 My position is a simple one,
17 Senator DeFrancisco. I know a lot about you.
18 You are a businessman who wants to get things
19 done and I respect that. I also happen to
20 think, Senator DeFrancisco -- and it's not for
21 me to get involved in the politics of your party
22 -- that if you were the leader, you would have
23 enough respect for yourself and your people not
24 to have to hold other parts of the state hostage
25 to get your work done.
4374
1 Senator Dollinger, you may not
2 remember this -- some of you may not remember,
3 but we have had other leaders in this house as
4 Republicans and during the term and the reign of
5 an Earl Brydges and Warren Anderson, there were
6 years when there were Democratic members with 10
7 chapters, 5 chapters, 15 chapters, 19 chapters
8 and you want to know something interesting? The
9 Republican Party didn't seem to fall apart. The
10 Republican Party didn't lose its majority and
11 what happened from the point of view of the
12 people? Hundreds of ideas, good ideas that came
13 from Democrats went into the law and helped your
14 people as well as our people.
15 Now, I've told you fellows this
16 informally a number of times. I think your
17 politics are ridiculous. If you let Democratic
18 bills out and you want to pick on a few of what
19 you think are marginals, gee, you would make
20 them look bad. All you're doing is making
21 heroes out of all of our marginals because
22 they're saying, what are you looking at me for?
23 These childish Republicans won't let out any
24 good ideas, such as "A", "B", "C" and "D".
25 So, Senator DeFrancisco, I don't
4375
1 want to hold up the productive work of this
2 chamber. It is not Manny Gold responsible for
3 the fact that the Republicans in this house have
4 not put out a budget. It's not my fault at all.
5 Somebody made the point that it's
6 interesting, isn't it, if the Governor doesn't
7 give a darn about the budget, nobody in the
8 state seems to care the budget. When the
9 Governor was excited his first year in office,
10 everybody got excited. Where's the damn budget
11 -- darn budget, excuse me. Now nobody seems to
12 care because the Governor doesn't care, but at
13 least the Governor put out a budget as bad as it
14 is and, again, Senator DeFrancisco, I don't mean
15 to pick on you but you answered a question from
16 me a week or so ago and you admitted on the
17 floor of this chamber you wouldn't vote for the
18 Governor's budget and I respected that, Senator,
19 and some of you have told me you won't vote for
20 the Assembly budget, but why don't you at least
21 tell the public what you will vote for? Have
22 enough guts to stand up and tell the public,
23 This is the report of our Finance Committee. We
24 say these are the monies. These are the
25 expenditures. You won't do that.
4376
1 The fact is there's a Majority in
2 the Assembly that would restore rent regulation
3 to every tenant just the way it is and there's a
4 Majority in this house who says they will do it
5 but not when the votes come and the Majority
6 Leader says that he's opposed and whatever, but
7 I don't see a bill.
8 The Majority Leader, who has
9 raved time and time again about making this
10 process open and having joint committees of the
11 houses, let the people see us work, has backed
12 away from that because it's not convenient
13 anymore. Why isn't it convenient? Because the
14 positions of your party are so out of step with
15 the public, you're ashamed to put them out.
16 The only way you'll put them out
17 is by agreement. You hope that in the end there
18 will be a tenant bill that's agreed to so now
19 your people can vote for it because everybody
20 else is voting for it, they'll be in agreement
21 but you're ashamed to pass a bill that sets
22 forth your position and how can you govern
23 without shame? That's no way to govern.
24 Senator DeFrancisco, I'm prepared
25 to support every municipality in this state, but
4377
1 I say "all" and "every". I don't say I'll
2 support the ones that are represented by
3 Democrats or represented by Republicans, and I
4 thought we ended this nonsense years ago.
5 We went through it once. Senator
6 Anderson had enough class to realize that it was
7 a losing battle from the Republican Party's
8 point of view and we had a truce and we didn't
9 do this kind of thing. Not only that, as I
10 indicated to you before, Senator Anderson had
11 enough class to -- not yet -- Senator Anderson
12 had enough class to even allow substantive bills
13 to come out and some of them were terrific.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Will Senator
15 Gold yield?
16 SENATOR GOLD: In one minute.
17 Not only that, a guy by the name
18 of John Marchi, in 1970, had enough class to
19 even let a Minority Democrat in the Assembly
20 have his name on a piece of legislation and
21 that's what we're talking about. We're talking
22 about the stature of this house and putting it
23 on a level where everybody participates and who
24 wins and who loses? The people win, and that's
25 what I thought this process was all about.
4378
1 Yes, Senator. You want me to
2 yield?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Professor Gold,
4 I appreciate the lecture.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Any time.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Just one
7 question for clarification.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Sure.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: You know, I can
10 understand you perhaps disagreeing the way the
11 house is managed and that's your right, and when
12 you talk about Warren Anderson, you mention a
13 man of class and he certainly is. Are you
14 indicating in your opinion that Senator Bruno is
15 not a man of class?
16 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, Senator, if
17 that's the -- if that's -
18 SENATOR SKELOS: You're talking
19 about leadership, Senator Gold, and in my
20 opinion -
21 SENATOR GOLD: I thought you
22 asked me a question.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: -- you're
24 insinuating that Senator Bruno is a man not of
25 class, and I want to say to you, in my opinion
4379
1 -- and I know of the Majority members here -
2 Senator Bruno has brought more reform to this
3 chamber. Our conferences were open. I have
4 never seen one of your conferences open to the
5 press -- to the public. We've had conferences
6 opened up with the Speaker, with the Minority
7 Leader there, with the Governor there. These
8 are all reforms that I think are class reforms
9 by a class Majority Leader and that's Senator
10 Bruno.
11 So perhaps you just want to
12 clarify that you're not indicating that Senator
13 Bruno does not have class because I know there
14 would certainly be 34 members here that would
15 disagree with you and I would expect an awful
16 lot of members in the Minority that would
17 disagree with you.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
19 I would be glad to answer that
20 question. Senator, as you and I know, if you
21 take a look at that clock in here, you and I
22 don't know whether that is solid wood or veneer
23 until you make a closer inspection. The reforms
24 that have been made in this house are nothing
25 but veneer. When you get past the surface, they
4380
1 are nothing because the fact of the matter is
2 that this Majority in this house at this time
3 has done more to be regressive towards the
4 rights of Minority members in this house than
5 anyone ever was and for no reason. It gains you
6 nothing. As a matter of fact, it lost you two
7 seats last time around and counting.
8 So when you say to me, does -- am
9 I implying that Senator Bruno doesn't have
10 class, I would say to you, Senator, that the
11 world is not black and white. It is gray.
12 Senator Anderson had class. In
13 saying that, I don't have to say anything about
14 Senator Bruno. We'll make our own judgments as
15 to whether on a scale of one to ten where he
16 fits in. I don't have to comment about him. I
17 told you before, I think he's a lovely
18 gentleman. If he gets me a horse that won't
19 kill me -- which is an issue right there -- I
20 would be glad to go horseback riding with him,
21 but that's just not the issue.
22 One thing which I think you may
23 want to do, Senator Skelos, because I know you
24 are a power in your party, is you might want to
25 read the papers. We have, in the 26 years I
4381
1 have been a member of this house, said a lot of
2 things over the years and the gentlemen and
3 ladies of the press have taken that as political
4 stuff because that's what Minorities say. Not
5 this year. Why don't you read the papers.
6 They're printing it this year. They're starting
7 to understand it, Senator. They're starting to
8 understand how the Majority in this house warps
9 the process.
10 There was -- and I've told you
11 this before -- the very -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Skelos, why do you rise?
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Have there been
15 Joint Conference Committees appointed in the
16 Legislature with Minority representation where
17 we've had results of the breast cancer pesticide
18 bill resolved, we've had the speed limit issue
19 resolved, small city school issues resolved?
20 Senator Gold, you know, when
21 you're speaking, I'm generally attentive because
22 your comments are always riveting and I never
23 know what to expect from you, and certainly I
24 think when myself or any other member is
25 speaking, especially if they've asked you to
4382
1 yield, that similar courtesy could be extended.
2 SENATOR GOLD: You haven't missed
3 a word.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very
5 much.
6 So I think that with the Majority
7 Leadership of Joe Bruno, there have been many
8 wonderful reforms instituted as have been
9 written by the press, Joint Conference
10 Committees, all night sessions have been
11 eliminated, starting on time, many, many reforms
12 which I think have been significant and Senator
13 Bruno has indicated that these reforms will
14 continue, but it's interesting how, when I bring
15 up the one issue -- the one issue of a Democrat
16 Minority Conference open to the press, it's
17 never happened. It's never happened and we've
18 had our conferences open. We've had the
19 conferences or the leadership meetings which
20 Senator Connor has attended, with the Governor,
21 with the Speaker, Minority Leader in the
22 Assembly. They have been open to the public and
23 to the press. Our Joint Conference Committees
24 are open to the public and the press but we have
25 not seen one of your conferences open to the
4383
1 public and the press.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
3 Senator Connor will have something to say in a
4 moment on that because it just isn't true in
5 terms of our conference but, Senator Skelos, I
6 listened to the question and I'll answer the
7 question, and I say to myself, who are you
8 talking to? Who are you talking to? The press
9 knows what you've done and what you haven't
10 done. In the three-year period, there were
11 three bills out of 3- or 4,000 where you called
12 Conference Committees. Where is the Conference
13 Committee on rent? Where is the Conference
14 Committee on the budget? These things are big
15 issues. Where's the Conference Committees on
16 some of the crime bills where this house and the
17 other house has a differential? Where is the
18 Conference Committees on education funding
19 formula? Where is the Conference Committee on
20 anything?
21 This is nonsense. You do it once
22 and you call it a reform because you can put
23 that notch in there? Conference Committees mean
24 we do it. It's a regular course. We get work
25 done and as far as the fact of your open
4384
1 conference on one day or whatever that was -- I
2 think we opened it up once also -- that's not
3 reform. I don't know who you're kidding. You
4 and I are not debating in the middle of Europe
5 where nobody knows what's going on. The
6 reporters who hear this know what's going on.
7 Our members know what's going on. Your members
8 know what's going on. So just standing up and
9 saying the reforms have happened doesn't make
10 anything the truth because all of us know the
11 truth.
12 Senator Connor, I'm sorry. I
13 yield to Senator Connor.
14 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
15 President, just to set the record straight.
16 I'm enjoying this debate,
17 particularly hearing Senator Dollinger oppose
18 the motion and Senator Gold support it, but I
19 did want to point out that Senator Skelos was in
20 error. The day, the one day, the one occasion
21 when the Majority Conference was open to the
22 press here, at the very same time we had our
23 conference and it was open to the press. They
24 all went to yours, including some of our
25 members.
4385
1 SENATOR SKELOS: May I add that
2 Senator Dollinger attended also.
3 SENATOR CONNOR: That was their
4 choice. Some of our members attended yours.
5 You were all invited to ours as was the press.
6 They all chose to go there. We had a nice
7 quiet, small conference but it was open, in
8 fact, and I would point out about the reform of
9 the Conference Committees, Senator Skelos very
10 correctly articulated the only three times in
11 the last two and a half years when these
12 Conference Committees were used, on the breast
13 cancer legislation, the small cities school
14 budget vote and the speed limit bill, and I
15 would point out that this year the Speaker has
16 been repeatedly calling for Conference
17 Committees on the budget and for Conference
18 Committees even on the rent issue and that
19 requires this house to take some action to pass
20 a bill which the Majority hasn't even brought a
21 bill on any of those topics to the floor, but if
22 you do and you pass those bills, then hopefully
23 we would have Conference Committees again, but I
24 did want to set the record straight. Our
25 conference was certainly open to the press on
4386
1 that very same occasion.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will call the roll on the motion.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I just be
5 heard against the -- I want to argue against the
6 point that Senator Gold talked about about
7 productivity.
8 I would simply point out -- and
9 Senator DeFrancisco raised the same issue and,
10 again, I'm speaking against the acceptance of
11 the Rules Committee report. The notion that we
12 have to do something productive today, when
13 we're doing three or four bills all through
14 February, March and April, when we were doing
15 nothing, I would simply point out the other
16 fact.
17 As of May 1st, we had been in
18 session, I believe 44 days. There have been 44
19 chapters created. We have been doing one law a
20 day and for that, the people of the state of New
21 York are paying about $1 million a day. So for
22 all of a sudden somebody to say to me, Well,
23 it's time to get productive, we got to do all
24 these bills that were printed in March that need
25 to be done on the 29th of May, I think is quite
4387
1 foolish. We had all that time in January and
2 February and March and April when the people
3 were paying us -- the people were giving us per
4 diems, the people were paying our travel
5 expenses, we could have done any one of these
6 bills on that day -- on those days. Instead we
7 did nothing, nothing, nothing and for someone to
8 now suggest that the reason we're stalled is
9 because today in this chamber we've decided to
10 debate these issues and bring them to the floor,
11 to say it's our fault, it seems to me is equally
12 as foolish.
13 We had 44 chapters in 44 days. I
14 didn't control that agenda. I don't set the
15 Rules Committee agenda. I don't set the agendas
16 of all those committees that were suggested that
17 I should attend. I don't get to do that.
18 Somebody else gets to do that. Why didn't we
19 get anything done? Why haven't we done anything
20 this year? I would suggest that perhaps you not
21 cast your glance over to this side of the aisle
22 but instead look some place else for that
23 explanation.
24 I don't understand why we would
25 suddenly be accused of doing nothing. We would
4388
1 be accused of being obstructionist when the
2 people of this state have had four and a half,
3 almost five full months of doing nothing from
4 this house.
5 That's the reason why I'm opposed
6 to the acceptance of the Rules Committee
7 report.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 motion is to accept the report of the Rules
10 Committee. All those in favor signify by saying
11 aye.
12 (Response of "Aye".)
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (Response of "Nay".)
15 The Rules report is accepted.
16 The Chair recognizes Senator
17 Bruno.
18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
19 would like to proceed with a bill but before I
20 do, I just wanted to give an indication to my
21 colleagues here in the Senate that Monday -
22 whenever we adjourn today at whatever hour -- I
23 would suggest that we be prepared to spend some
24 time here in the chamber because we are
25 contemplating, as the Senator referred to,
4389
1 having a closed call of the house and that will
2 help us ensure that members come here, stay here
3 and we do the work that has to be done because
4 we are going to move in an orderly way towards
5 recessing some time hopefully, according to our
6 calendar, by June 25th.
7 So today we were contemplating
8 doing that but without previous notice, I think
9 it would be a great inconvenience, not to the
10 Senators who are paid to be here and do this
11 work but to the constituents that many of them
12 had appointments with and had to be back in
13 their own districts on both sides of the aisle.
14 So, Mr. President, we will on
15 Monday see where we are and what has to be done
16 then and make that judgment accordingly.
17 At this time I would ask that we
18 take up Senator Cook's bill, Number 898.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Gold, point of order. State your point of
23 order, please.
24 SENATOR GOLD: My point of order
25 is very simple. I believe, Mr. President, we
4390
1 were in the order of business of doing the
2 Journal, as I reiterated earlier.
3 Now, just to make the record
4 clear, I believe there is one bill on the Rules
5 report which is a bill for White Plains and if
6 the Majority Leader, in his sole discretion,
7 wanted to pull that bill and get that done
8 because that bill apparently has a time limit, I
9 certainly would make no objection and I'm told
10 that the Minority on this side would be very
11 supportive for the most part -- I can't speak
12 for every member, be supportive.
13 So the record ought to be very
14 clear, if we don't do that bill today, it's
15 strictly up to the Majority, but I would object
16 to any other bills being called until we finish
17 with the Journal, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Gold, I would again refer to the section of the
20 rules that I referred to earlier when I made the
21 ruling that I did, that being Rule VII,
22 Subdivision (2), and if you look specifically at
23 the last sentence of that rule, it does say "If
24 the report be adopted", which it was, "all
25 inconsistent rules of the Senate shall be
4391
1 automatically suspended until the subject of
2 such report has been disposed of, including
3 final action thereon" and it is the ruling of
4 the Chair that "final action thereon" includes
5 the adoption of those bills on the Rules
6 report.
7 So we will -- all of the bills
8 that were reported coming from Rules are
9 properly before the house for action thereon.
10 That's what Senator Bruno has asked for and so
11 we will be taking up Senator Cook's bill first.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Could I ask you
13 for an indulgence for a minute or two? I just
14 checked that so I may not have to go through an
15 appeal of the Chair. If you're right, I'll be
16 the first one to admit it. (Pause)
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes,
19 Senator Gold.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I have
21 reviewed the rule and I have determined that you
22 are correct.
23 So I thank you for your -
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Did the
25 stenographer get that statement by Senator
4392
1 Gold?
2 SENATOR GOLD: And as has been
3 done in the past by your side of the aisle, why
4 don't we amend the record to change that.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the title.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1074, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 898, an act
9 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
10 to fees of justice courts.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
14 act shall take effect on the first day of
15 January.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 The Secretary will continue to
23 read the report of the Rules Committee.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1075, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2068, an
4393
1 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
2 providing for business tax credits.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1076, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3188, an
15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
16 relation to intermunicipal agreement.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4394
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar
3 Number -
4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Gold, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. The Rules
8 agenda which I have does not have calendar
9 numbers on it, so it's hard for me to make the
10 adjustment, but I'm looking at the agenda here
11 and it has Senator Cook's bill, 898, which I
12 think we have done.
13 The next one I have is 2068,
14 which is Senator Holland, which I believe we
15 have done. Is that correct?
16 The next one -
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Let me
18 check.
19 SENATOR GOLD: The next one it
20 shows is 3188 by Senator Seward. I think -- did
21 we just do that?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's
23 correct.
24 SENATOR GOLD: The next one is
25 3596. Have we done that?
4395
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No. We
2 have only done three bills at this point,
3 Senator Gold.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. Can I ask
5 what was the next bill called?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
7 hasn't been a bill called.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you,
9 Senator.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I have
11 been busy signing them.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will continue to read the report of
16 the Rules Committee.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
19 Assembly Bill Number 4796 and substitute it for
20 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1073.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 substitution is ordered.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1073, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
25 Assembly Print 4796, an act to amend the Tax
4396
1 Law, in relation to extending the sales and use
2 taxes by the city of White Plains.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
11 Senator Gentile recorded in the negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1077, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3965, an
16 act authorizing -
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 Senator Dollinger.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
22 President, I was out of the chamber. I
23 apologize, but could I be recorded -- unanimous
24 consent to be recorded in the negative on
25 Calendar Number 1073 which is the sales tax bill
4397
1 I believe I discussed before.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
3 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
4 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on
5 Calendar Number -- well, it's actually Senate
6 Print 3596.
7 The Secretary will continue to
8 call the report of the Rules Committee.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1078, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4473, an
11 act to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga
12 County.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
15 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
16 will lay the bill aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1079, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4474-A, an
19 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
22 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
23 will lay the bill aside.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1080, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4499, an
4398
1 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
2 Nassau to accept an application.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will lay the bill aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1081, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4522,
8 an act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
11 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
12 will lay the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an
15 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in
16 relation to the organization of professional
17 service corporations.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside at the request of the Minority
21 Leader.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1083, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4790, an
24 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
25 relation to the definition of real property.
4399
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
2 please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside at the request of the Minority
5 Leader.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1084, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899, an
8 act to authorize the town of Washington in the
9 county of Dutchess.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
11 a home rule message at the desk.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
14 bill aside at the request of the Minority
15 Leader.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1085, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4912, an
18 act to amend the General Business Law, in
19 relation to criminal and monetary sanctions.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
22 bill aside at the request of the Minority
23 Leader.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1086, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5125, an
4400
1 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
2 increasing the number of and the length of the
3 terms of office.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside at the request of the Minority
8 Leader.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
10 Number 1087, by Senator Volker, Senate Print
11 5212, an act to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of
12 1996.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
14 please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
16 bill aside at the request of the Minority
17 Leader.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1088, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5277,
20 an act to legalize, ratify and confirm.
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside at the request of the Majority
24 Leader.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4401
1 1089, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5280, an
2 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
3 causing the death of a peace officer.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside at the request of the Minority
8 Leader.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1090, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5294 -
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
13 bill aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1091, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
16 Print 5322, an act providing for the
17 establishment of the New York State Commission.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
21 bill aside at the request of the Minority
22 Leader.
23 The Secretary will call the
24 controversial calendar on the Rules Committee
25 agenda, beginning with Senate Print 3965.
4402
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1077, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3965, an
3 act authorizing the assessor of the town of
4 Islip.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
6 please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Johnson, an explanation has been requested on
9 Senate Print 3965.
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President,
11 this bill will allow the aquarium in Bay Shore
12 which is under -- which is going to be built -
13 it is not been built yet -- which has acquired
14 some land to apply for exemption from real
15 property taxes as provided in the Not-For-Profit
16 Law. They didn't file on times. This let's
17 them file on time. It doesn't grant the
18 exemption. It merely makes it possible to make
19 the application for that.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
23 if Senator Johnson would yield for a question.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Johnson, do you yield?
4403
1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
6 Johnson, is there a home rule message on this
7 piece of legislation?
8 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's not
9 necessary, Mr. -- it's not necessary, Senator.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the
11 delay -- are we regarding the delay as
12 ministerial; it didn't affect any process by the
13 fact that the -- the application was late?
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, taxes
15 already (inaudible) the bill, when it was
16 acquired and not paid and, of course, another
17 year has elapsed and they just noticed when they
18 got their first tax bill that they did not file
19 for an exemption.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Senator
21 Johnson, if you'll continue to yield. I am
22 wondering about the consultation with local
23 authorities on this. I assume you've done
24 that. There's no need for a home rule message
25 and so I'm hoping that you've checked to make
4404
1 sure everybody in Bay Shore wants this.
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator
3 Paterson, the local town government is very
4 enamored of this project. They're very happy
5 that's it's happening and it's going to help to
6 rebuild the downtown area of Bay Shore and
7 they're not going to miss the $8,000. It's
8 going to be a $40 million project right in their
9 community.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, thank
11 you, Mr. President.
12 I'm sure they're also enamored of
13 Senator Johnson. There are no further
14 questions.
15 I'm going to vote in favor of
16 this bill and I'm going to recommend that every
17 member of this body vote for it as well.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
19 President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Dollinger.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator
23 Johnson yield to a question?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Johnson, do you yield to a question from Senator
4405
1 Dollinger?
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, as I
3 understand it -- I assume that was a yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Johnson, do you yield?
7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. I stood
8 up and yielded, yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I
12 understand this, Mr. President, the entity here,
13 the Long Island Aquarium, acquired a piece of
14 property after the tax rolls had already been
15 set and, therefore, they weren't able to get the
16 benefit of the not-for-profit exemption because
17 the tax status of the property had already been
18 declared for the entire year, is that correct?
19 SENATOR JOHNSON: It was taxable
20 property while it was taken, yes, and I guess
21 they paid that tax and now another year has come
22 by and they want to eliminate the tax in this
23 year and get last year's tax back which they
24 shouldn't have paid.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
4406
1 you, Mr. President, if Senator Johnson -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Johnson, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator continues to yield.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do I
8 understand it, Senator, that they owned the
9 property for a year, paid the taxes for a year
10 and then didn't file for the exemption so
11 they've had to pay taxes for the second year?
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Just about,
13 close enough.
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me,
15 Mr. President. I didn't hear the answer. I
16 apologize.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: The answer is
18 you're essentially correct.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr.
20 President, on the bill.
21 I voted against these kinds of
22 measures in the Local Government Committee.
23 Senator Cook and I have had this discussion in
24 the Local Government Committee about what do we
25 do for these entities that have not-for-profit
4407
1 status that have the ability to get a tax
2 exemption but they buy property halfway through
3 the year and then they immediately come to their
4 favorite state legislator -- Senator Johnson, I
5 assume you're on the top of their list -- and
6 say we shouldn't have to pay property taxes for
7 any of that period of time in the single year,
8 the half year, quarter of a year, two-thirds of
9 a year, three-quarters of a year that the
10 property was on the tax rolls as taxable
11 property.
12 Senator Cook and I had this
13 discussion with Senator Rath. We talked about
14 whether this is fair, just and proper, and I
15 voted against bills that would allow not-for
16 profit entities to abate the taxes for a single
17 year. When they buy the property one year, it's
18 already on the tax rolls as taxable property.
19 They've got to pay the tax for that year. There
20 have been bills, as I recall them, in the Local
21 Government Committee in which entities came in
22 and said we want relief from that one year, the
23 year we bought its taxes.
24 With all due respect to the Long
25 Island Aquarium, they got that one year and now
4408
1 they're looking to abate the second year of the
2 taxes. Quite frankly, I don't think this is
3 good public policy. We have to have a tax
4 cut-off date in which we establish tax rolls for
5 the purposes of collecting real property taxes.
6 It's not -- if somebody can come
7 up with a better way to do it, then the
8 arbitrary cut-off date that we have in law
9 currently, which we have to have for the
10 purposes of local government finance so they can
11 count on anticipated revenues, it seems to me
12 that that rule makes good sense. It's not
13 perfect. It's one of those arbitrary things
14 that government has to do in order for the
15 government to have its reliability function
16 achieved.
17 What we're doing here by saying
18 to the Long Island Aquarium or any one of these
19 other entities that have come before us, these
20 bills all seem to have the same political
21 affiliation of the sponsor on them and I
22 understand they make everyone popular, but this
23 is not good public policy for local
24 communities. It's not good public policy to
25 have these bills pass this house or for that
4409
1 matter become law because what we're really
2 saying is that the local communities can't count
3 on their local property taxes and that we're
4 going to cut out politically favored exemptions
5 for the Long Island Aquarium, for religious
6 organizations. I think this is bad public
7 policy.
8 I urge -- contrary to my
9 colleague, Senator Paterson, I would urge all my
10 colleagues to vote against this to maintain the
11 integrity of real property taxes for local
12 communities.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
15 (There was no response.)
16 There is a home rule message at
17 the desk. The Secretary will read the last
18 section. There is no home rule message at the
19 desk. I was anticipating the next bill.
20 So the Secretary will read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
25 roll.
4410
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
3 the negatives. Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar Number 1077 are
6 Senators Cook, Dollinger and Mendez. Ayes 55 -
7 those recorded in the negative on Calendar
8 Number 1077 are Senators Cook and Dollinger.
9 Ayes 56, nays 2.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 The Secretary will continue to
13 read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1078, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4473, an
16 act to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga
17 County.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Libous, an explanation of Senate Print 4473 has
21 been requested by the Deputy Minority Leader,
22 Senator Paterson.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
24 President.
25 This is a fairly simple piece of
4411
1 legislation. It's an act that authorizes the
2 town of Richford in Tioga County to discontinue
3 and convey a small parcel of land to four
4 residents. The parcel of land is one that the
5 -- a very small strip that the DOT no longer
6 wants to have upkeep on and at this present
7 time, the local board felt that it was in the
8 best interests to convey the land to the four
9 homeowners.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 I understand.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section. There is
16 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
17 will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
25 is passed.
4412
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1079, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4474-A, an
3 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm
4 certain actions taken by the town of Maine.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Libous, an explanation of Senate Print 4474-A
8 has been requested by Senator Dollinger.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 Senator Dollinger, this is one of
12 those unfortunate situations that comes up from
13 time to time in local government. An official
14 of the local town made some commitments to a
15 company who does paving work and, unfortunately,
16 he really didn't have the authority to make
17 those commitments. However, the work was
18 completed for the town and the town now feels an
19 obligation to pay the contractor for the work.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would
24 Senator Libous just yield to one question?
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure.
4413
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Libous, in
4 this particular situation, the only concern that
5 some of us had in the Rules Committee -- and
6 it's a concern which you and I will finish here
7 in 35 seconds, I'm sure -- is the issue of
8 whether or not we are authorizing bonds to be
9 making payments which may be in excess of
10 value. In other words, if there was some
11 wrongdoing in the letting of the contract, it
12 would make no sense to issue bonds to pay one of
13 the wrongdoers extra money. Now, we don't know
14 -- I'm not saying there are wrongdoers, don't
15 get me wrong, but has that been accounted for in
16 the considerations here?
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: The problem -
18 as far as any criminal charges or any charges
19 against anyone, those are still pending. Those
20 decisions will have to be made.
21 The -- I'm not here, Senator
22 Gold, to say who did the wrongdoing. The only
23 thing the town is saying, they have an
24 obligation. The work was completed and they
25 need to pay for that work.
4414
1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the only
2 question I have -- and I'm serious. This is it
3 -- is if there was a determination locally that
4 the contract was not only done improperly but
5 maybe wrongfully in other ways, we are not
6 stopping the town from having any defense about
7 paying if it turns out that they're being over
8 charged.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: No, we are not.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
11 much. Last section.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Dollinger.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
17 quick question to Senator Libous.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Libous, do you yield to a question from Senator
20 Dollinger?
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The only
25 thing that occurs to me, Senator, was the
4415
1 highway superintendent bonded when he did this?
2 Does the town of Maine have any recovery against
3 the bonds that would have been posted by the
4 superintendent when he acts outside his
5 authority?
6 I'm going to vote in favor of
7 this. I think we should do this. This is a
8 problem that we should cure but is there any way
9 that the town bought a bonding for the
10 superintendent so that when this happened they
11 have some recovery through their bond?
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I don't believe
13 they do, but that's something that they may want
14 to consider in the future.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Thank
16 you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a
18 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
19 will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
4416
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1080, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4499, an
5 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
6 Nassau to accept an application.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
8 please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
10 some Senator wishing an explanation of the
11 bill? Hearing none, the Secretary will read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Excuse me.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: I asked for
17 the explanation, Mr. President. I'm sorry, Mr.
18 President. I asked for the explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Tully, apparently an explanation was asked for
21 by Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
24 This bill would authorize the
25 assessor of the county of Nassau to accept an
4417
1 application for exemption from real property
2 taxes as though previously made in accordance
3 with the assessment roll completed on August
4 1st, 1996.
5 What happened was the county of
6 Nassau gave a grant of $250,000 to this Harvest
7 House 3, which is a shared housing alternative
8 for low income elderly and because of some
9 delays, they closed on February 3rd, 1997, went
10 to the assessor's office, sought an exemption
11 and were advised that they can only make the
12 exemption from September to December and this
13 legislation would give them the authority to
14 apply for it as though they made it timely and
15 authorize the assessor to refund the taxes
16 previously paid.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Paterson.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 if the Senator would yield for a question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Tully, do you yield?
23 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr.
24 President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4418
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Normally this
3 would be an administrative procedure and if I
4 understand you correctly, the reason that this
5 situation at Harvest House 3 requires
6 legislative action is the fact that by the time
7 the settlement was made, the date had already
8 expired. Is that correct assessment?
9 SENATOR TULLY: That's accurate,
10 Mr. President.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: So then
12 resting assured that there is no fault on the
13 part of Harvest House 3 and that there wasn't
14 any other great activity at the other two
15 Harvest Houses, I'll vote for the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
24 the negatives. Announce the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 2,
4419
1 Senators Cook and Dollinger recorded in the
2 negative.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1081, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4522,
7 an act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Paterson, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR PATERSON: On this piece
12 of legislation, I don't need as much an
13 explanation as much as if Senator DeFrancisco
14 would yield for a question.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 DeFrancisco, do you yield?
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I can
21 understand what the wishes of Onondaga County
22 are in this situation that they want to be
23 withdrawn from the Finger Lakes region. What I
24 would like to know is what is the opinion of the
25 adjoining counties about this -- about this
4420
1 removal?
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill
3 does not call for Onondaga County to be removed
4 from the Finger Lakes region. It just declares
5 the -- it follows through on the request of the
6 county legislature that would give them that
7 opportunity if they chose to.
8 Presently they are in the Finger
9 Lakes region and they're mandated to be so by
10 law. So by passing a bill such as this, the
11 county of Onondaga now would have the
12 flexibility to go to surrounding regions and
13 have discussions with surrounding regions and if
14 and when they work out a different partnership,
15 they would have the authority to come up with an
16 additional region. Right now when they go to
17 adjoining counties, adjoining counties aren't
18 interested in talking because the law mandates
19 that they stay in the Finger Lakes region.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 If Senator DeFrancisco would
23 continue to yield.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4421
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'll
3 take responsibility for assuming that their end
4 objective was to remove themselves from the
5 Finger Lakes region because I've thought that
6 was probably why they raised the discussion and
7 in the interest of expedience and speed, which
8 everyone here knows that I'm working as hard to
9 get out of here as anyone he is, I just thought
10 I would skip over that point and just assume,
11 which I never should have done, that that would
12 be their end objective. Would there be any
13 other reason other than that that they would be
14 wanting to have that option?
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: They have
16 not been able to work on any partnerships -
17 they haven't been able to work on any
18 partnerships because no one wants to talk to
19 them because they're currently mandated to be in
20 the Finger Lakes.
21 There is another reason. The
22 fact that Onondaga County as a whole is in the
23 Finger Lakes region may not be their ultimate
24 decision. They may decide that the westernmost
25 towns, including the town of Skaneateles, which
4422
1 is right on a Finger Lake, they may want to stay
2 in the Finger Lakes region and they may be
3 broken in parts, Onondaga County may be, where a
4 part may be in one region, part would be in
5 another.
6 So it's not only to give them the
7 flexibility as a county to meet with other
8 counties and possibly entirely get out of the
9 Finger Lakes region but it will also allow them
10 the flexibility to be part in and part out if
11 they choose to.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Current law,
15 Mr. President, through you to Senator
16 DeFrancisco, is a bar to this kind of discussion
17 or it's -- at least there's a perception among
18 the other counties that there can't be any
19 discussion until we resolve this issue?
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. It's
21 not a bar but -- as a matter of law. It's a bar
22 as a matter of practical dealings.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: I was saying
24 as a matter of perception.
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's
4423
1 correct. Why talk to Onondaga County as long as
2 they're still required to be in the Finger
3 Lakes.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand.
5 If the Senator will continue to yield for
6 another question.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Senator continues to yield.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: This is
13 actually a question that Senator Gold had, but
14 he's a little shy and he asked me to ask it for
15 him. What would be the benefit -- can you think
16 of a benefit should the occasion arise when the
17 entire county would like to be removed from the
18 Finger Lakes region? How would that benefit the
19 county? If -- in other words, it may not
20 actually happen as you just stated but if it
21 did, can you suggest to us how that would be
22 beneficial to the county or even -
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: As I
24 mentioned, there is a division of feeling in the
25 county depending on where in the county you are,
4424
1 whether they want to stay in or get out but
2 those that want this flexibility feel that
3 they're being -- that Central New York may have
4 a better identity by coming up with a different
5 image rather than the Finger Lakes because I
6 don't think many people think of Syracuse, New
7 York as a Finger Lake area. They may think of
8 Skaneateles because it's on a Finger Lake but -
9 and I think that's the general idea to try to
10 get a different identity, a better identity
11 that's more appropriate for Central New York.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
13 on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Paterson, on the bill.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: I agree with
17 Senator DeFrancisco and I thought his answer was
18 quite sufficient. I don't know if it was
19 sufficient enough for Senator Gold but it was
20 for me and then after all, I asked it, so why
21 would I care -- well, I do care but that's
22 another issue.
23 I spent two summers in Syracuse.
24 I never considered them part of the Finger Lakes
25 region, and so I guess I'm in favor of the bill.
4425
1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Gold.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would the
5 gentleman from Syracuse yield to a question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 DeFrancisco, do you rise -- do you yield?
8 Excuse me.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'm not
11 sure how all this works but is it my
12 understanding that if they are part of one of
13 these regions, that when you put out, for
14 example, the "I Love of New York" brochures or
15 they do other things like that, you would find
16 them listed under that region. So if somebody
17 said they wanted to go to Central New York, they
18 wouldn't find the events of Onondaga County
19 listed there because they would be under the
20 Finger Lakes. Is that the kind of thing we're
21 talking about?
22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's
23 correct, and plus state funding depends a lot
24 upon regions for matching funds to the various
25 regions to advertise their particular benefits
4426
1 for tourism.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if
3 you would yield to another question, please.
4 The question that Senator
5 Paterson asked initially, which I don't think
6 was really answered because maybe it wasn't
7 spotlighted, if Onondaga County were to remove
8 itself, is there financial lack of benefit or
9 injury to the other counties that remain in the
10 Finger Lakes area because of the fact that
11 Onondaga pulls out?
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, no, and
13 the concept is just about every -- every area is
14 not mandated to be in a region. The Finger
15 Lakes, for some reason beyond my knowledge,
16 became a region requiring the people to stay in
17 that region. Onondaga County passed a
18 resolution saying we want that region and we
19 want to be part of that and that's how the law
20 was drafted. Times have changed. They don't -
21 some don't want to be in any longer and they
22 want the flexibility to have -- to choose
23 another reason possibly just like any other area
24 of the state does.
25 SENATOR GOLD: If you'll answer
4427
1 one more question.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Senator continues to yield.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Are you saying -
6 well, actually it's two. The first one is
7 easy. Are you saying, Senator, that all of the
8 regions are not defined in law. It's only the
9 Finger Lakes region.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's
11 correct. All the regions are not mandated to be
12 in this region except for the Finger Lakes.
13 It's the only one.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. My only
15 question, Senator, is wouldn't it be then
16 perhaps a situation where we should just
17 eliminate these mandates from the law and let
18 the various regions, as they want to, make their
19 hookups and do the advertising that way instead
20 of the Legislature being involved because from
21 our point of view -- I mean, I'm going to
22 support it because I couldn't care less. If
23 they feel it's better for them economically, I
24 want to support it, but it's just strange to me
25 that it should be a matter where the Legislature
4428
1 has to be involved.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I
3 don't know the original reason why it was
4 mandated for this region and not other regions
5 but my concept here is that Onondaga County has
6 chosen that they want to get out. If other
7 Finger Lakes counties have that same feeling,
8 I'm sure their Senators will bring that to the
9 attention of the Legislature or me as Chairman
10 of the Tourism Committee, I will be more than
11 happy to look at legislation if that's what the
12 individual counties want.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 a home rule message at the desk.
15 Senator Dollinger, do you wish to
16 speak on the bill?
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
18 President, just on the bill and this really just
19 follows up a point that Senator Gold talked
20 about some time ago.
21 This bill was authored on the
22 15th day of April. I think it's a good bill.
23 It needs to be done today, the 29th March
24 through a Rules Committee? It was in the
25 Tourism Committee. The Tourism Committee, I'm
4429
1 sure had ample opportunity to report this bill,
2 could have reported it at any time. Senator
3 DeFrancisco is the chair of that committee. It
4 could have come right to the floor, nice bill.
5 Does a good thing for the community that he
6 represents.
7 I'm going to vote in favor of it
8 but why we had to have it on the Rules Committee
9 and why someone would suggest to us that we
10 stalled -- that we stalled when here's a bill
11 that was printed seven weeks ago that sat in the
12 Committee that the chairman could have moved out
13 to accomplish this beneficial purpose and it
14 didn't happen today until the Rules Committee.
15 I ask again, who's stalling?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
17 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
18 will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4430
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an
4 act to amend the Business Corporation Law.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
6 please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Marchi, an explan... excuse me.
9 Senator Bruno.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we lay that
11 aside, Mr. President?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll lay
13 the bill aside at the request of the Majority
14 Leader.
15 The Secretary will continue to
16 read the controversial -
17 SENATOR BRUNO: I would -- Mr.
18 President, I would like to return to the order
19 of the reading of the Journal.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes,
21 Senator. Is there any objection to the
22 Journal?
23 SENATOR GOLD: Can you hold it
24 just one half a second?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4431
1 Paterson, did you have an objection to the
2 Journal?
3 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just
4 wanted to hear it, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It was
6 previously read but I can ask the Secretary to
7 read it again as we have traditionally done.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the Journal then.
12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
13 Wednesday, May 28th. The Senate met pursuant to
14 adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, May 27th,
15 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate
16 adjourned.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Gold.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I think the
21 point that Senator Paterson was making -- and by
22 the way, before I -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Gold, did you have an objection?
25 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I have an
4432
1 objection.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have
3 an objection to the Journal.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, and I would
5 like to state it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will
7 listen to it.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
9 I would like to preface it by
10 saying, by the way, that I am glad that while we
11 have political work that unfortunately we have
12 to do, I'm glad that our Majority Leader found a
13 way to take care of the needs of White Plains
14 and some of the localities in cooperation with
15 our party. I think it would have been foolish
16 not to do that but, Mr. President, I think the
17 point that Senator Paterson is making is made if
18 we take a look at what is traditional -- when we
19 talk about traditional.
20 We start the session and are
21 asked to approve a Journal. Sometimes -- a lot
22 of times we do that just blindly and yet what
23 happens is after we leave Albany, the Journal is
24 printed and we find out we've approved it and
25 hopefully it's accurate -- and I want to say
4433
1 that lest anybody confuse anything, there is
2 nobody who admires the Journal Clerk of this
3 chamber more than I do, and the problem, Mr.
4 President, is that people of great talent,
5 people of great attentiveness, people who are
6 well meaning still make mistakes sometimes.
7 This particular Journal Clerk works very hard to
8 make sure that doesn't happen and it really
9 doesn't happen, I don't think, but I think our
10 responsibility is such that we should make sure
11 of what it is we are voting about.
12 Now, this is the 29th -- 29th of
13 '97. To give you an idea, we just grabbed one,
14 the 29th of May '95, and it's really very short,
15 Mr. President, but it says "The Senate met
16 pursuant to adjournment, Senator Farley in the
17 Chair upon designation of the Temporary
18 President. The Journal of Sunday, May 28th,
19 '95, was read and approved" but then it says
20 "Introduction: Introduced business. The
21 following bills were introduced, read first and
22 second time, referred to their respective
23 committees. Senate" and then it gives the
24 Senate numbers and there happen to have been
25 three bills that day and it's accounted for. It
4434
1 then says "Senator Bruno moved that the Senate
2 do now adjourn" and the President put the
3 question, the Senate agreed, et cetera, and
4 that, Mr. President, is a Journal.
5 Now, earlier today when the
6 Journal Clerk read the Journal, he read the top
7 few lines and that was done because that's what
8 he was instructed to do. He certainly doesn't
9 take it upon himself not to read the rest of it
10 and many days those of us on this side of the
11 aisle are content to let that go.
12 On the other hand, there are some
13 days when we might decide that we ought to know
14 what is in the Journal. We asked what bills -
15 were there some bills passed and we were told
16 that there were, I think six or eight bills that
17 were passed and upon your instruction, Mr.
18 President -- and we appreciate it -- those bill
19 numbers were given to us. Upon your
20 instruction, we also were given the votes which
21 we also, by the way, appreciate very much and
22 that's where it was.
23 Now, I don't know, Mr. President,
24 from the information we have, whether that is
25 what will be in the Journal that we are voting
4435
1 to approve or whether there is other material
2 that is necessary.
3 For example, when I read to you
4 from May 29th, 1995, I get the impression -
5 although I don't have that good a memory -- I
6 have the impression that perhaps the only two
7 people in the chamber were Senator Farley and
8 Senator Bruno on one of our legislative days.
9 That was a Monday and the reason I say that is
10 on Tuesday, the following day, there is an
11 attendance record which is set forth and we
12 don't have that on Monday. Now, maybe that was
13 Memorial Day Weekend that year, I don't know
14 what happened but apparently nothing much.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Gold, I -- I am still waiting for the correction
17 -- or the objection that you have to the
18 Journal.
19 SENATOR GOLD: I thought I was
20 explaining.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And I'm
22 trying to understand and be as easy going with
23 the interpretation of the rules of the house as
24 I can to give you as much latitude to state your
25 point, but I don't sense that you have any
4436
1 corrections to the Journal that was read to
2 make. If you do, I would like to hear them so
3 that we can then take a vote on whether or not
4 those corrections are going to be included in
5 the Journal.
6 So if we could move to that point
7 that you would state your objection to the
8 Journal, or your correction -- it's a synonymous
9 term -- then I would appreciate that so we can
10 move to the vote.
11 SENATOR GOLD: I think that's a
12 fair comment, Mr. President, and as you can see,
13 you have been making these terrific insights all
14 day and I have been agreeing with you, but the
15 only variance I have from what you just said,
16 Mr. President, is that I am still allowed under
17 the rules to explain my objection in my own way
18 and I am sorry that I don't have the economy of
19 words that you have, that method of putting
20 words together succinctly and accurately so that
21 one -- listening to just one or two minute words
22 can grasp huge concepts and, therefore, I have
23 to struggle with what little talent I have been
24 given to try to get the point across -
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You
4437
1 appear to be in a lot of pain struggling to find
2 that, Senator.
3 SENATOR GOLD: -- in the fewest
4 words I can -- in the fewest words I can that,
5 unfortunately isn't always few.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Could you
7 state your objection, your correction?
8 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I'm trying
9 to do that.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
11 SENATOR GOLD: So, Mr.
12 President -
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The other
14 thing I should remind you, Senator Gold, is if I
15 find your comments not to be germane to the
16 point that's before us, I will rule you out of
17 order and we will move on.
18 So with that in mind -
19 SENATOR GOLD: It will be the
20 last day you ever get from me on a putting
21 green.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's
23 right. Would you please state your correction
24 or your objection.
25 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I am.
4438
1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 Paterson, did you have a correction to the
4 Journal as it was read?
5 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just
6 wanted to ask you if you are contemplating
7 ruling any of Senator Gold's remarks not germane
8 to the discussion, I just want to know the basis
9 because I have a feeling that I would want to
10 appeal that ruling, and so I just want you to
11 consider what would be really the parameters of
12 what germaneness is so that I can prepare myself
13 for that inevitable time.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think
15 after the session is over, Senator Paterson, you
16 and I will adjourn to the lobby and we'll have
17 that discussion. I'm not prepared to make any
18 predeterminations on any rulings at this point.
19 I would like to hear Senator Gold's objections.
20 If he doesn't have an objection, then I would
21 ask you to sit down and we'll move on in the
22 course of business.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
24 Mr. President, the only objection
25 I would have -- and I will withdraw it as an
4439
1 objection -- is I assume when the Journal is
2 complete for yesterday, we will have things like
3 attendance in it and things like bills that are
4 introduced and having great faith in the Journal
5 Clerk, I will remove any objection and allow it
6 to be -
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Then,
8 without any objection, the Journal stands
9 approved as read.
10 Presentation of petitions.
11 Messages from the Assembly.
12 Messages from the Governor.
13 Reports of standing committees.
14 Reports of select committees.
15 Communications and reports from
16 state officers.
17 Motions and resolution.
18 The Chair recognizes Senator
19 Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 On behalf of Senator Saland, on
23 page 7, I offer the following amendments to
24 Calendar Number 227, Senate Print Number 1289-A,
25 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
4440
1 Third Reading Calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 amendments to Calendar Number 227 are received
4 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
5 the Third Reading Calendar.
6 Senator Libous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 On behalf of Senator Goodman, on
10 page 38, I offer the following amendments to
11 Calendar Number 907, Senate Print Number 5213,
12 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
13 Third Reading Calendar.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 amendments to Calendar Number 907 are received
16 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
17 the Third Reading Calendar.
18 Senator Marcellino.
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr.
20 President. On behalf of Senator Libous, please
21 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 822.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
23 Number 822 is starred at the request of the
24 sponsor.
25 Senator Skelos, we have a couple
4441
1 of substitutions. Can we take those at this
2 time? Senator Skelos, we have a couple of
3 substitutions at the desk.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the
5 substitutions.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the substitutions.
8 THE SECRETARY: On page 23,
9 Senator Holland moves to discharge from the
10 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 7767 and
11 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
12 Calendar 680.
13 And on page 51, Senator Present
14 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
15 Assembly Bill Number 8067 and substitute it for
16 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1069.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 substitutions are ordered.
19 Senator Skelos, that brings us to
20 the calendar.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 if we could continue with the Rules Committee
23 report, regular order.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will continue with the controversial
4442
1 calendar on the Rules Committee agenda,
2 beginning with Senate Print 4767, Calendar
3 Number 1082, by Senator Marchi.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an
6 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in
7 relation to the organization of professional
8 service corporations.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1083, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4790, an
21 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
22 relation to the definition of real property.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4443
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
6 Senator Rath recorded in the negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1084, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899, an
11 act to authorize the town of Washington in the
12 county of Dutchess.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
14 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
15 will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1085, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4912, an
4444
1 act to amend the General Business Law, in
2 relation to criminal and monetary sanctions.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1086, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5125, an
16 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
17 increasing the number of and the length of the
18 terms of office.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4445
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1087, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5212, an
6 act to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of 1996.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1088, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5277,
19 an act to legalize, ratify and confirm the
20 validity of certain actions.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4446
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1089, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5280, an
8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
9 causing the death of a peace officer.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect on the first day of
14 November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1090, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5294, an
23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
24 assault of bus drivers.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4447
1 Secretary will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect on the first day of
4 November.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1091, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
13 Print 52... 5352, an act providing for the
14 establishment of the New York State Commission.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
24 is passed.
25 Senator Skelos.
4448
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 is there any housekeeping at the desk?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
4 one motion, if we might return to the order of
5 motions and resolutions.
6 The Chair recognizes Senator
7 Maziarz.
8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
9 on behalf of Senator Stafford, please place a
10 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 904.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
12 Number 904 will be starred at the request of the
13 sponsor.
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
16 further business, I move we adjourn until
17 Monday, June 2nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days
18 to be legislative days.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Skelos, before that, Senator Waldon, why do you
21 rise?
22 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
23 apologize to Senator Skelos and to my colleagues
24 but Calendar Number 1082, I was out of the room
25 when that passed the house and that's the bill
4449
1 which will allow attorneys and non-attorneys to
2 enter into agreements to work as attorneys,
3 which is really prohibitive in terms of the
4 concept or philosophy of this state and in this
5 station and, therefore, I respectfully request
6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
7 negative, and I think my colleagues also ought
8 to look at that. I think we made an egregious
9 error by letting that fly through without taking
10 the necessary action.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
12 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon
13 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
14 Number 1082, Senate Print 4767.
15 Senator Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
17 with the unanimous consent of the house, I would
18 also like to be recorded in the negative -
19 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: -- on Calendar
21 Number 1082.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
24 Paterson will be recorded in the negative on
25 Calendar Number 1082.
4450
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 once again, this being no further business, I
3 move -
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Connor wishes to be in the negative on Calendar
7 Number 1082. Without objection, Senator Connor
8 will be recorded in the negative.
9 Senator Dollinger.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I also be
11 recorded in the negative on 1082. I apologize.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1082.
13 Senator Montgomery.
14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would like
15 to be in the negative on 1082.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
17 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
18 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
19 Calendar Number 1082.
20 Now, Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Motion to
22 adjourn.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
24 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
25 Monday, June 2nd -
4451
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Intervening days
2 to be legislative days.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- at
4 3:00 p.m., the intervening days to be
5 legislative days.
6 (Whereupon, at 3:08, the Senate
7 adjourned.)
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