Regular Session - June 3, 1997
4543
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 3, 1997
10 12:05 p.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President
18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary
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4544
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 come to order. Would you please rise and join
4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
5 (The assemblage repeated the
6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
7 May we bow our heads in a moment
8 of silence.
9 (A moment of silence was
10 observed.)
11 The reading of the Journal,
12 please.
13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
14 Monday, June 2nd. The Senate met pursuant to
15 adjournment. The Journal of Friday, May 30th,
16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate
17 adjourned.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Without
19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
20 Presentation of petitions.
21 Messages from the Assembly.
22 Messages from the Governor.
23 Reports of standing committees.
24 Senator Marcellino.
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: On behalf of
4545
1 Senator Marchi, Madam President, please place a
2 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1041 and,
3 Madam President, on page number 28, I offer the
4 following amendments to Calendar Number 778,
5 Assembly Print Number 7700, and ask that said
6 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
7 Calendar.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
9 starred. The amendments are received.
10 Thank you.
11 Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
13 there will be an immediate meeting of the Energy
14 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.
15 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
16 immediate meeting of the Energy Committee in the
17 Majority Conference Room.
18 Senator Skelos.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could take
20 up the non-controversial calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
22 Secretary will read.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 177-C, an
25 act to amend the Executive Law and others, in
4546
1 relation -
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
4 the bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 684, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3084, an
7 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in
8 relation to spectators.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect on the first day of
13 November.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 729, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 339, an act
22 to amend the Education Law, in relation to drug
23 testing of certain pupils.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Read the last section.
4547
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect in 180 days.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 766, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 1905, an act
11 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to
12 eliminating review.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 Read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 786, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4013, an act
25 to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to
4548
1 eligibility of farm credit system institutions.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3 Read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Call the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 798, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4105, an
14 act to legalize, certify and confirm the acts of
15 the Eastport Union Free School District.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
17 Read the last section. There is a local fiscal
18 impact statement on file.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Call the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4549
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 848, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4852, an act
4 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act,
5 in relation to public hearings.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect on the first day of
10 January.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 870, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5180, an
19 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
20 establishing the crime of absconding.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4550
1 Call the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 898, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4259-A, an
8 act to amend Chapter 674 of the Laws of 1993.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
12 the bill aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 903, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4904-A -
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
16 the day at the request of the sponsor.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
18 the bill aside for the day.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 908, by member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly
21 Print 6160, an act to amend the Parks,
22 Recreation and Historic Preservation Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4551
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3 Call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 913, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1965, an
10 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
11 appeals to the state Board of Parole.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
17 Call the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 915, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 2779, an
24 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to
25 charging taxes on sales of commissaries and
4552
1 canteens.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3 Call the roll -- I'm sorry. Read the last
4 section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an
15 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to
16 requiring inmates to make medical co-payments.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
18 please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
20 the bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3423, an
23 act to amend the Family Court Act and the Social
24 Services Law, in relation to notification.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4553
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
3 act shall take effect in 90 days.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 939, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3455, an
12 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
13 to appointment.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 941, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4857, an
4554
1 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
2 relation to authorizing payment.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 944, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5149, an
15 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
16 relation to orders.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Call the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4555
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 945, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5150, an
4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
5 relation to disinterested persons.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Call the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 946, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5164, an
18 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
19 relation to adoption proceedings.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Call the roll.
4556
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 956, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 340, an act
7 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
8 relation to the enforcement of handicapped
9 parking regulations.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 971, by member of the Assembly Connelly,
22 Assembly Print 1124, an act in relation to
23 authorizing the Metropolitan Transportation
24 Authority.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4557
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 977, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2089, an act
12 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
13 relation to exempting.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
16 the bill aside, please.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 981, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2694, an
19 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
20 relation to the service charge.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Read the last -
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4558
1 Call the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 Senator Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe there
8 are some substitutions at the desk that need to
9 be made, if we could make them at this time.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
11 Secretary will read the substitutions.
12 THE SECRETARY: On page 19,
13 Senator Volker moves to discharge from the
14 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6780 and
15 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
16 Calendar 567.
17 And on page 48, Senator LaValle
18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
19 Assembly Bill Number 5357 and substitute it for
20 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1095.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
22 substitutions are made.
23 Continue reading the non
24 controversial calendar.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4559
1 994, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4387, an act
2 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation
3 to emergency contracts.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Call the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1030, by member of the Assembly Stringer,
16 Assembly Print 5635, an act to amend the
17 Election Law, in relation to requiring.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Call the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
4560
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1031, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4511-A,
5 an act -
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
8 the bill aside, please.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1043, by Senator Marchi -
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Star the bill at
12 the request of the sponsor. 1041, are we on?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 1041 is what we're on, Senator.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Star it at the
16 request of the sponsor.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
18 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor.
19 I'm sorry.
20 The Secretary will read 1043.
21 1041 was previously starred.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 -- Calendar Number 1043, by Senator Marchi -
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
4561
1 the bill aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1049, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4061, an
4 act to amend the Waterfront Commission Act, in
5 relation to empowering.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
9 act shall take effect upon enactment into law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Call the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1055, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4431, an
18 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
19 sharing of information.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Call the roll.
4562
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1063, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5124, an
7 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
8 prohibited acts by banking institutions.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 Call the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1069, by the Assembly Committee on Rules -
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
23 the bill aside, please.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1092, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1158, an act
4563
1 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
2 to establishing the Fallsburg-Liberty-Thompson
3 Industrial Development Agency.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 There is a home rule message at the table.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
8 the bill aside, please.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1093, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 2871,
11 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
12 relation to authorizing a residential parking
13 permit system.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 There is a home rule message at the desk. Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Call the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4564
1 1094, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3134, an
2 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
3 relation to point systems.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Call the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1095, substituted earlier today by member of the
16 Assembly McGee, Assembly Print 5357, an act to
17 amend the Town Law, in relation to the
18 compensation of election inspectors.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Call the roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4565
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1096, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3814, an
6 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
7 assault with a noxious material against a police
8 officer.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect on the first day of
13 November.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1097, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4680, an
22 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
23 Nassau to accept an application.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Read the last section.
4566
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1098, by the Senate Committee on Rules -
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
12 temporarily.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
14 the bill aside temporarily.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1099, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4901, an
17 act relating to providing a lump sum payment in
18 lieu of future payments.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Call the roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4567
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1100, by Senator Tully -
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill
7 aside for the day at the request of the sponsor.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
9 the bill aside for the day at the request of the
10 sponsor.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1101, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5110-A, an
13 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
14 permitting the Division of Human Rights.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Call the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4568
1 1102, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5118, an
2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
3 prohibiting state agencies.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Call the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1103, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5261, an
16 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
17 relation to the maximum speed limit.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Call the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
4569
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1104, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5311, an
5 act to amend Chapter 668 of the Laws of 1977,
6 amending the Volunteer Firefighters Benefit Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
16 bill is passed.
17 Senator Skelos, that concludes
18 the non-controversial calendar.
19 What is your pleasure, sir?
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 the session has gone so smoothly, I think we're
23 going to pray twice. We had a moment of silence
24 and now the Reverend is with us and perhaps we
25 could have another prayer.
4570
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: If
2 we could give our attention to Pastor Troy
3 Bronner of the Calvary Baptist Church of
4 Buffalo.
5 Reverend.
6 PASTOR TROY BRONNER: Greetings.
7 Let us pray together. We are grateful and
8 thankful for this opportunity for the church and
9 state to be together. We're thankful for the
10 men and women who make clear decisions for us,
11 God, and we pray that You will give them a heart
12 for our people, for our state and for the
13 decisions that will affect all of us.
14 We pray that Your atmosphere will
15 always be in this place and that You will guide
16 them and lead them and protect them. We pray
17 for their families as they are away from them.
18 We pray for their districts. We pray for our
19 governor. We pray for our state. We pray for
20 the changes that are about to come into our
21 community and we pray that Your presence will
22 help us and guide us and direct us.
23 We thank You for this time. We
24 ask that You will always seal this as an event
25 that You will give glory from and honor from.
4571
1 It's in the name of our Savior that we pray.
2 All of us are saying Amen.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Senator Skelos.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
7 immediate meeting of the Aging Committee in the
8 Majority Conference Room.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 There will be an immediate meeting of the Aging
11 Committee in Room 332, the Majority Conference
12 Room. The Aging Committee will meet immediately
13 in Room 332, the Majority Conference Room.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: For planning
15 purposes, to let the members know, there will be
16 a meeting of the Children and Families
17 Committee, the Transportation Committee and the
18 Rules Committee as we go through the
19 controversial calendar.
20 Mr. President, if we could start
21 the controversial calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
23 Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: On page 12,
25 Calendar Number 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate
4572
1 Print 177-C, an act to amend the Executive Law
2 and others, in relation to treatment of sex
3 offenders.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
5 please.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
7 temporarily.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
9 the bill aside temporarily.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 898, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4259-A, an
12 act to amend Chapter 674 of the Laws of 1993.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
14 please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Senator Goodman, an explanation has been asked
17 by Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, Mr.
19 President. The purpose of this bill is to
20 retain the maximum value limitation of $200,000
21 for emergency construction contracts authorized
22 to be let by the Commissioner of General
23 Services until June 30th, 1999.
24 I'm not sure that I have the
25 attention of the questioner but when I do, I
4573
1 will be glad to -- maybe it's -- Senator, I
2 don't know if this is something you wish to be
3 personally apprised of but, if you are, I would
4 be happy to wait until you conclude your
5 business.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry,
7 Senator.
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Would you like
9 me to proceed with my explanation? I would be
10 happy to do so.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Please do.
12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you.
13 Sir, as I was saying, this
14 relates to the value of limitations of $200,000
15 for emergency construction contracts and the
16 existing -- under existing law, Public Buildings
17 Law, Section 9, this authorizes the Commissioner
18 of General Services to let contracts in value
19 not exceeding $200,000 to respond to
20 construction emergencies involving a pressing
21 necessity for immediate repair, reconstruction
22 or maintenance to protect persons or property
23 and to permit safe continuation of the public
24 use or function.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4574
1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
3 Dollinger had a pertinent question on this and
4 he may -- he may vote on it when he gets back
5 later as one of the colleagues has just -
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Let
9 the record show if Senator Dollinger was in the
10 room, we would have heard his question.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Call the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an
22 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to
23 requiring inmates.
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
4575
1 temporarily.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
3 it aside temporarily.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 977, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2089, an act
6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
7 relation to exempting any child.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
9 please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been asked by
12 Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Paterson,
14 this is a bill that we took up last year and we
15 had a -- not a significant but a debate on the
16 issue, actually on two days. It's a very one
17 issue-oriented bill.
18 Several years ago we passed a
19 bill that became law in this state which would
20 require the riders of bicycles under the age of
21 14 years to wear safety-approved helmets. That
22 bill which eventually became the law created a
23 problem to some of my constituents who are in
24 two groups.
25 There's one group called -- the
4576
1 practice of religion and are called Mennonites
2 and there's another group that we refer to as
3 the Amish. Both of these groups are required -
4 and have done so for at least four centuries,
5 required to wear a covering. The males wear a
6 wide brimmed hat and the females wear bonnets.
7 By requiring them to wear safety
8 helmets, we are forcing them to abandon what is
9 accepted and required in the practice of their
10 religion and so if they do comply with the law
11 currently, they abandon their religion. If they
12 maintain their religious tenets and wear the
13 hats or the bonnets, then we force them into
14 criminal status.
15 So this is a proposal which would
16 exempt them from being required to wear helmets.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 If Senator Kuhl would yield for a
22 question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Senator Kuhl, do you yield to Senator Paterson?
25 SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
4577
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Senator Kuhl yields, sir.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
4 Senator.
5 I remember this bill from last
6 year. I remember considerable discussion
7 between yourself and myself and also Senator
8 Lachman on the issue and there's, I think, a
9 Minnesota Supreme Court case that speaks to this
10 particular issue.
11 My question is -- the concern
12 that we raised then was just for safety in the
13 areas around the state that are not particular
14 to this specific area where I think the merit of
15 your bill is quite well taken.
16 Have you made any changes to the
17 legislation since last year?
18 SENATOR KUHL: None. The bill is
19 exactly as it was presented to you last year.
20 You may remember, Senator
21 Paterson, that Senator Lachman and I had a
22 discussion about some potential changes. He had
23 some recommendations. I laid the bill aside
24 after we first brought it up. We talked about
25 those and he and I agreed that those -- what he
4578
1 was proposing for various reasons were not
2 acceptable and so we came back to the original
3 bill, brought it forward and it was supported by
4 57 members, I believe, of this body. Only two
5 people voted in the negative and Senator Lachman
6 and I have discussed this earlier before it has
7 come to the floor today. He questioned whether
8 the bill was exactly the same. I told him it
9 was and he indicated to me that he was going to
10 be supporting the bill again this year.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
12 much, Senator, and thank you for allowing us to
13 discuss that bill with you in the interim
14 period, and I know it took a little longer to
15 get through but we're satisfied with your
16 answers.
17 Thank you.
18 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Senator
19 Paterson.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Read the last section, please.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Hold on one second.
4579
1 Senator Lachman, do you wish to
2 be heard on this bill?
3 Senator Lachman.
4 SENATOR LACHMAN: Mr. Chairman, I
5 just want to reiterate what I had mentioned last
6 year on this bill. It deals with what I believe
7 is a First Amendment right, religious freedom.
8 The bill had been a controversial
9 bill because it also deals, quite candidly, with
10 security and safety but in my eyes when there is
11 a conflict between the First Amendment and
12 America's great contribution to the world of
13 separation of church and state and where there
14 is a conflict between that and almost anything
15 else, I will stand with the First Amendment.
16 This involves, I believe 1,000
17 members of an old Mennonite denomination. I
18 don't even believe they go to vote. So Senator
19 Kuhl has nothing to gain from this, and I
20 commend him for upholding the First Amendment
21 and, as I said, our great contribution to world
22 religion are separation of church and state, and
23 since I believe that old Mennonites are careful
24 in what they do in all aspects of their life, I
25 don't foresee any safety or security problems,
4580
1 and I stand with the distinguished Senator from
2 upstate New York.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Is
5 there any other Senator wishing to be heard?
6 (There was no response.)
7 Read the last section.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Section 2. This act shall take effect
10 immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Announce the results. There is -
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1,
17 Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Volker.
21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
22 immediate meeting of the Child and Families
23 Committee in Room -- the Majority Conference
24 Room, Room 332, 332, the Child and Families
25 Committee.
4581
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
2 Children and Families Committee will meet in
3 Room 332 immediately.
4 The Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1031, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4511-A,
7 an act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
8 commencement of proceedings.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Senator Present, Senator Paterson has again
12 asked for an explanation.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 This bill is an attempt to clear
16 up what has become a real problem when there's a
17 challenge to a person's name being on the ballot
18 and it would provide that the court try and have
19 that hearing at least 15 days prior to the
20 election so that the Board of Elections can
21 prepare their ballots for the machines and also
22 get out their absentee ballots.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Excuse me, Senator Present.
25 Ladies and gentlemen, it's
4582
1 getting a bit noisy in here. If we could take
2 our conversations out of the chamber so we can
3 hear the explanation of the bill.
4 Thank you, Senator Present. I'm
5 sorry for the interruption.
6 SENATOR PRESENT: I think I've
7 finished.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
11 if Senator Present would yield for just a
12 moment.
13 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
15 Senator yields, Senator.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, what
17 is the current process?
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Pardon?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: What is the
20 current process with respect to names on the
21 ballot?
22 SENATOR PRESENT: I think the
23 current process is when such an action is
24 brought in court, the judge doesn't necessarily
25 rush it to get it done and it may -- the
4583
1 determination may come a day before election or
2 hours even.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 Read the last section, please, somebody.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1043, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3584, an
17 act to amend the Business Corporation Law.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Senator Marchi, an explanation has been asked
21 for by Senator Gold.
22 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr.
23 President. This would -- well, under existing
24 law, a corporation does not allow an addressee
25 for service of process to resign unilaterally
4584
1 and this would give that permission provided
2 that they have served notice to the -- the
3 corporation and the failure of the corporation
4 to fill this void or to carry out that function
5 would -- could lead to the suspension of the
6 corporation.
7 A person may involuntarily,
8 either by design or just caprice, be established
9 as the recipient of process when, in fact, they
10 -- there is an expressed desire on their part
11 not to be a -- not to be -- to cease being an
12 addressee.
13 So it seems like an equitable
14 arrangement and discipline of the corporation if
15 they don't cooperate in providing a replacement
16 for the addressee.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, on the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Senator Gold, on the bill.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Marchi, I
23 think it is a very good idea and that's why I
24 thought of it and that's why I introduced the
25 legislation, and I don't know why after it was
4585
1 introduced by me there was a necessity to have
2 it reprinted but other than to say, Senator
3 Marchi, that you and I know each other for a day
4 or two at least and over the course of the
5 years, as I've always stated, you are an
6 individual whose sense of fairness and equity
7 has never been interfered with by ego. So I can
8 only attribute what has happened with this bill
9 to staff people who confused their ideas of what
10 the legislative process should be.
11 My bill was reported to the
12 calendar and obviously the politics of this
13 house has your bill being considered, but I do
14 think that it was a waste of money. I think it
15 was unfortunate that someone on your staff -- or
16 somebody's staff decided that the sponsorship of
17 the bill was more important than the issue. So
18 here we are today.
19 I'm going to support the bill and
20 that's why I introduced it, and I want the
21 record clear, Senator, that in my opinion, you
22 are the ultimate gentleman and whatever happened
23 with this bill certainly was not a Marchi doing,
24 as far as I'm concerned.
25 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President.
4586
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Senator Marchi.
3 SENATOR MARCHI: This was a
4 Secretary of State bill, that's a program bill.
5 Nevertheless, I have to acknowledge that if you
6 preceded me in time, I publicly apologize to
7 you. It was not by design.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, I
9 won't accept an apology from you because you did
10 nothing wrong. You don't have the capacity to
11 do something wrong, as far as I'm concerned, but
12 I think that there are circumstances some time
13 which are foolish and time wasting, but I'm glad
14 we're passing the bill. That's the most
15 important thing.
16 SENATOR MARCHI: But we rejoice
17 in that, and I would like to -- no one on my
18 staff was trying to, you know -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
22 would Senator Gold yield for a question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Senator Gold, I believe would probably yield to
25 you, sir.
4587
1 SENATOR GOLD: If it's easy.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
3 assuming that you support this bill and don't
4 try to take it, I would like to propose a
5 legislative piracy bill that would make it a
6 misdemeanor to in any way copy any legislation
7 or information -- change the name -- kind of a
8 plagiarism.
9 SENATOR GOLD: I didn't hear a
10 question.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Can
12 we read the last section on that bill.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
14 act shall take effect in 90 days.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
20 bill has passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1069, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
23 Assembly Print 8067, an act to enact the Private
24 Activity Bond Act of 1997.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4588
1 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 this bill was laid aside at the request of
4 Senator Leichter who asked for a day on it. I
5 would be interested in finding out if Senator
6 Present would yield, whether or not Senator
7 Leichter has spoken to him or whether or not he
8 would like to give him a day on this bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Senator Present.
11 SENATOR PRESENT: I -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
13 Excuse me, Senator. Before you start, ladies
14 and gentlemen, once again, can we just keep it a
15 little down? Thank you.
16 Senator Present.
17 SENATOR PRESENT: I think the
18 question was, have I spoken to Senator
19 Leichter? Yes, and other staff people have. I
20 think that he's satisfied, but one never knows.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
22 think the response is, Senator, one never
23 knows.
24 SENATOR PRESENT: I think Senator
25 Leichter asked the question whether or not the
4589
1 Public Authorities Law requires that the Public
2 Authorities Control Board still has to approve
3 and look at all of these loans and this bill
4 that's before us makes no changes in that.
5 Senator Leichter has been so
6 informed.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
8 Senator Present.
9 I have just been informed that
10 Senator Leichter is okay with the bill. So
11 let's read the last section and pass it quickly
12 before he changes his mind.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: At
14 the request of Senator Paterson, read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
23 bill is passed quickly.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1092, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1158, an act
4590
1 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation
2 to establishing the Fallsburg-Liberty-Thompson
3 Industrial Development Agency.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Read the last section on that. There is a home
6 rule message on that bill.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1098, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
17 Print 4799, an act to amend Chapter 272 of the
18 Laws of 1991.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
20 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Senator Spano.
23 SENATOR SPANO: Is there a home
24 rule message at the desk on 1098?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4591
1 There is not, and I'm informed that one is not
2 required under the rules, Senator.
3 SENATOR SPANO: Can we lay the
4 bill aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
6 the bill aside.
7 Senator Volker, we've finished
8 those bills that we can. That brings us back to
9 those that were laid aside temporarily.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
11 is there any housekeeping at the desk?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
13 Yes, we do, Senator. We have housekeeping and a
14 couple of amendments.
15 SENATOR VOLKER: Why don't you do
16 it now.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: We
18 shall do just that.
19 The Chair recognizes Senator
20 Maziarz.
21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
22 President.
23 Mr. President, on page number 52,
24 I offer the following amendments to Calendar
25 Number 843, Senate Print Number 2760 and ask
4592
1 that that bill retain its place on the Third
2 Reading Calendar and also to remove the
3 sponsor's star.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
5 sponsor's star will be removed and the bill will
6 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
8 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 47,
9 I offer the following amendments to Calendar
10 Number 1061, Senate Print Number 3755, and ask
11 that said bill retain its place on the Third
12 Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
14 amendments are received and accepted and the
15 bill will retain its place on the Third Reading
16 Calendar.
17 Senator Maziarz.
18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President,
19 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 24,
20 I offer the following amendments to Calendar
21 Number 689, Senate Print Number 3803, and ask
22 that said bill retain its place on the Third
23 Reading Calendar.
24 THE SECRETARY: The amendments
25 are received and accepted and the bill will
4593
1 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
2 Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
4 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room and
6 the Senate will stand at ease.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
8 Rules Committee will meet immediately in the
9 Senate Majority Conference Room 332. Meeting of
10 the Rules Committee in Room 332 immediately. In
11 the interim, the Senate will stand in recess -
12 or at ease or whatever.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
14 ease from 12:46 p.m. until 1:14 p.m.)
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 there will be an immediate meeting of the
17 Transportation Committee in the Majority
18 Conference Room.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 There will be an immediate meeting of the
21 Transportation Committee in the Majority
22 Conference Room. Transportation Committee will
23 meet immediately in the Majority Conference
24 Room, Room 332.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
4594
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
4 return to reports of standing committees. If we
5 could have some order first.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
7 Senate will come to order. Can we take the
8 conversations out of the room. Staff find your
9 seats. Members find your seats.
10 Senator Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
12 return to reports of standing committees, I
13 believe there's a report of the Finance
14 Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
18 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
19 following nomination: Member of the Workers'
20 Compensation Board, Frank J. Ryan, Esq., of
21 Mohegan.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Senator Skelos.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the
25 nomination, and if you would please recognize
4595
1 Senator Spano.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
3 Chair recognizes Senator Spano on the
4 nomination.
5 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 It's my pleasure to second the
8 nomination of Frank Ryan as a member of the
9 Workers' Comp' Board.
10 Frank Ryan has a distinguished
11 career and has served as the town attorney in
12 the town of Cortlandt. He started his career
13 back in 1971 as the assistant legal counsel to
14 the late Senator Bernard Gordon.
15 He has appeared before the Labor
16 Committee and has demonstrated his desire to be
17 part of a great team under the chairmanship of
18 Bob Snashall in the Workers' Compensation Board.
19 Frank Ryan has shown that he's
20 got the knowledge as an attorney and the
21 background in business to be a great member of
22 that team and it's my pleasure to move his
23 nomination, the nomination of Frank Ryan as a
24 member of the Workers' Compensation Board today.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4596
1 question is on the nomination of Frank J. Ryan,
2 Esq., of Mohegan, for a term to expire December
3 31st, 2003 on the Workmen's Compensation Board.
4 All in favor signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye".)
6 All opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Mr. Ryan is unanimously
9 recommended and we congratulate -- Mr. Ryan is
10 in the audience with us and joined with his wife
11 Peg. Congratulations, Mr. Ryan.
12 (Applause)
13 If we can go on.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: The nominee is
15 confirmed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
17 nominee is confirmed. That's the right way to
18 say it.
19 Senator Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
21 could I have unanimous consideration to be
22 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 977.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
24 ordered.
25 Can we move the next nomination.
4597
1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
3 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
4 following nomination: Member of the state Board
5 of Parole, Ileana Rodriguez, Ph.D., of Yonkers.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the
7 nomination. Recognize Senator Spano.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Spano.
10 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 It is again my pleasure to
13 recognize another outstanding person from
14 Westchester, particularly the city of Yonkers,
15 who the Governor has appointed to the state
16 Board of Parole and to second the nomination of
17 Dr. Ileana Rodriguez.
18 Dr. Rodriguez has got a record
19 that goes back a long time in several pages in
20 terms of her qualifications to deal with the
21 difficult issues facing the Parole Board.
22 She's uniquely qualified where
23 she would be able to place her clinical skills
24 as a consulting psychiatrist -- psychologist to
25 work on the major decisions that she will be
4598
1 making as a part of that Board of Parole.
2 As a psychologist with the
3 Westchester County Department of Mental Health,
4 she has shown over the years that she's got the
5 type of sensitivity that is really necessary to
6 be a real good solid working member of that
7 Parole Board, and I'm also very proud to support
8 someone who has the -- those type of clinical
9 skills and particularly in the area of mental
10 health, there have been -- there are a number of
11 issues that Dr. Rodriguez has worked on in the
12 area of teen suicide and adolescent suicide that
13 really demonstrates her level of commitment to
14 our community.
15 So it's my pleasure to second the
16 nomination, to move the nomination of Dr. Ileana
17 Rodriguez as a member of the state Board of
18 Parole.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
20 motion is on the nomination of Ileana Rodriguez
21 of Yonkers for a term -
22 Senator Oppenheimer.
23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I just want
24 to also second the nomination to the state Board
25 of Parole. We are so thrilled to see a woman
4599
1 and a member of a minority group rising to this
2 distinction with the kind of qualifications and
3 personality that would make her superb on this
4 board. You will do us very proud.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
6 Chair recognizes Senator Nozzolio, on the
7 nomination.
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
9 President.
10 Mr. President, as Chairman of the
11 Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee,
12 the Committee met and reviewed the qualifica
13 tions of the nominee, and I am here to report
14 was extremely impressed with those qualifica
15 tions, background, experience and more
16 importantly, energy and enthusiasm that was
17 apparent to each member of the Committee that
18 the nominee will bring to this very important
19 responsibility.
20 Governor Pataki has put together
21 a terrific team in many areas of the state
22 government, but I'm very pleased to note
23 particularly the efforts of the Commission on
24 Parole, that we have seen the Governor's
25 nomination after nomination, very, very good,
4600
1 qualified individuals who are doing a tremendous
2 job at the front lines of the criminal justice
3 system.
4 I wish to congratulate Governor
5 Pataki on this nomination, and that I certainly
6 believe that we have a very qualified and
7 quality person before us for this
8 responsibility.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Thank you, Senator.
12 The question is on the
13 confirmation of Ileana Rodriguez as a member of
14 the state Board of Parole. All in favor signify
15 by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Ileana Rodriguez is hereby
20 confirmed as a member of the state Board of
21 Parole.
22 Congratulations, Ms. Rodriguez,
23 and we note that you are joined with your
24 husband George. Congratulations once again.
25 (Applause)
4601
1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
3 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
4 following nomination: Banking member of the
5 State Banking Board, Burkhard Frankenberger, of
6 Rye.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the
8 nomination.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
10 question is on the confirmation of Burkhard
11 Frankenberger as a member of the Banking Board
12 of the state of New York. All in favor signify
13 by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye".)
15 All opposed, nay.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Burkhard Frankenberger is hereby
18 confirmed as a member of the board.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
21 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
22 following nomination: Member of the Small
23 Business Advisory Board, Margery Keskin, of
24 Jamesville.
25 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
4602
1 nomination.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
3 question is on the nomination of Margaret
4 Keskin, of Jamesville, as a member of the Small
5 Business Advisory Council. All in favor signify
6 by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye".)
8 Opposed, nay.
9 (There was no response.)
10 Ms. Frankenberger is hereby -- is
11 confirmed.
12 The Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
14 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
15 following nomination: Director of the state of
16 New York Mortgage Agency, Steven E. Snyder, of
17 Fleetwood.
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
19 nomination.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
21 question is on the nomination of Steven E.
22 Snyder for a term -- of the state of New York
23 Mortgage Agency. All in favor signify by saying
24 aye.
25 (Response of "Aye".)
4603
1 Opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Mr. Frank... Mr. Snyder is
4 confirmed.
5 The Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
7 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
8 following nomination: Member of the Dormitory
9 Authority, Thomas J. Murphy, of Latham.
10 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
11 nomination.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
13 motion is on the nomination of Thomas J. Murphy
14 to the Dormitory Authority. All in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Mr. Murphy is confirmed.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
23 following nomination: Member of the Genesee
24 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
25 Commission, Carlton W. Seaburg, of LeRoy.
4604
1 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
2 nomination.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4 motion is on the nomination of Carlton W.
5 Seaburg as a member of the Genesee State Park,
6 Recreation and Historic Preservation
7 Commission. All in favor signify by saying
8 aye.
9 (Response of "Aye".)
10 Opposed, nay.
11 (There was no response.)
12 Mr. Seaburg is confirmed.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
16 following nomination: Member of the Taconic
17 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
18 Committee, Jack Gaffney, of Cortlandt Manor.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
20 question is on the nomination of Jack Gaffney as
21 a member of the Taconic State Park, Recreation
22 and Historic Preservation Commission.
23 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
24 nomination.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
4605
1 nomination is moved. The question on the
2 nomination -- all in favor signify by saying
3 aye.
4 (Response of "Aye".)
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 Mr. Gaffney is confirmed.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
10 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
11 following nominations: Members of the Advisory
12 Council on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse
13 Services, Wayne Creelman, M.D., of Buffalo; Paul
14 Curtin, of Syracuse; T.J. Elliott, of Tarrytown;
15 Arthur M. Johnson, of Saranac Lake; Stephen P.
16 Lyman, of Watertown; Ira J. Marion, of
17 Hartsdale; Jeanne M. Unger, of Oswego and
18 Veronica Uss, of Livingston Manor.
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
20 nomination.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
22 nominations of the aforeread names for members
23 of the Advisory Council on Alcoholism and
24 Substance Abuse Services, all in favor signify
25 by saying aye.
4606
1 (Response of "Aye".)
2 Opposed, nay.
3 (There was no response.)
4 The members are confirmed.
5 The Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
7 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
8 following nominations: Members of the New York
9 State Hospital Review and Planning Council,
10 Bruce G. Blower, of Huntington Station; Craig A.
11 Duncan, of Averill Park; John C. Federspiel, of
12 Croton-on-Hudson; Joel A. Maten, of Buffalo;
13 Barry Bruce Perlman, M.D., of New York City and
14 Jane Rees, of Rome.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
16 motion is on the nomination of the names that
17 were read as members of the New York State
18 Hospital Review and Planning Council.
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
20 nomination.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All
22 in favor signify by saying aye.
23 (Response of "Aye".)
24 Opposed, nay.
25 (There was no response.)
4607
1 The members are confirmed.
2 The Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
4 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
5 following nomination: Member of the State Fire
6 Prevention and Building Code Council, John H.
7 Flanigan, of Slingerlands.
8 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the
9 nomination.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
11 motion is on the nomination of John H. Flanigan
12 as a member of the State Fire Prevention and
13 Building Code Council. All in favor signify by
14 saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye".)
16 Opposed, nay.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Mr. Flanigan is confirmed.
19 Senator Larkin.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
21 may we please now adopt the Resolution Calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
23 motion is on the adoption of the Resolution
24 Calendar. All in favor signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye".)
4608
1 Opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 The calendar is adopted.
4 Senator Breslin.
5 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 I stand and request to offer that
8 the resolution celebrating the 200th Anniversary
9 of Albany as the state Capitol, which is JL1596,
10 I invite all the members of the Senate to appear
11 as sponsors on that resolution.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: At
13 the request of the sponsor, all members will be
14 placed unless the Chair is otherwise notified.
15 Senator Wright.
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 With regards to resolution J1585,
19 whereby the Senate is recognizing the Small
20 Business Administration award winners, I would
21 ask that that be open to all members of the
22 Senate also.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: As
24 is our tradition, anyone who wishes not to be on
25 the resolution, please notify the desk,
4609
1 otherwise all members will be placed on
2 Resolution J1585.
3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 You're welcome, Senator.
7 Senator Paterson, why do you
8 rise?
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
10 Resolution Number -- Calendar Number 1607, which
11 is a resolution commemorating the National
12 Puerto Rican Day Parade will be on June 8th and
13 recognizing that June 2nd to June 8th will be
14 Puerto Rican Week was sponsored and passed this
15 house by Senator Connor, the Minority Leader and
16 the Chair of the Conference, Senator Mendez and
17 at this time we would like to open that
18 resolution up so that all members might be
19 sponsors, if they choose.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
21 same rules will apply. Anyone wishing not to be
22 on Resolution 1607, please notify the desk,
23 otherwise all names will be placed on the
24 resolution.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Smith
4610
1 asked me to also emphasize especially those who
2 have Puerto Rican heritage and particularly
3 those who would like to.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Senator Larkin.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Can we now
7 return to the controversial calendar and we'll
8 start with Calendar Number 377.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
10 Secretary will read Calendar Number 377
11 previously laid aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: On page 12,
13 Calendar Number 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate
14 Print 177-C, an act to amend the Executive Law
15 and others, in relation to treatment of sex
16 offenders.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
18 please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Senator Nozzolio, an explanation has been
21 requested by Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
23 in the United States, 1.3 women are raped every
24 minute of every day. One out of three American
25 women will be sexually assaulted in her
4611
1 lifetime. That -- it's been stated that once a
2 sex offender always a sex offender and this
3 measure before us today establishes lifetime
4 parole for sex offenders and requires them to
5 receive treatment after they're released from
6 incarceration. This legislation does eliminate
7 good time behavior for sex offenders.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 11 -- I'm
11 sorry.
12 Senator Waldon wanted to speak.
13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 Would the gentleman yield for a
16 question or two?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?
19 Senator Waldon, he yields.
20 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
21 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator
22 Nozzolio.
23 Senator, this is for sex
24 offenders, as I understand it, and would that
25 include, for example, someone who is the parent
4612
1 of the child involved?
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Anyone
3 convicted of a crime, Senator, would be subject
4 to this act and the enumerated offenses are
5 specified under Section 130 of the Penal Law.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
7 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
11 President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
13 yields, Senator.
14 SENATOR WALDON: Just to help me
15 understand what you're attempting to do,
16 Senator, would this include those acts related
17 to a sex offense; for example, unlawful
18 imprisonment with a subsequent sex offense,
19 kidnapping with a subsequent sex offense? What
20 would happen if the sex offense doesn't stand up
21 but the other crime does stand up?
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we're
23 basing this provision in law upon a conviction
24 or a conviction of an attempt to commit any of
25 the enumerated crimes listed in Sections 130.35,
4613
1 130.50, 130.65, 130.67, 130.70, 130.75 and
2 130.80 of the New York State Penal Law or the
3 conviction of an offense of the law in any other
4 jurisdiction which includes the essential
5 elements of these felonies provided here. So
6 that we are broadening it to that degree. If
7 someone's committed a similar crime in another
8 jurisdiction, comes to New York and commits the
9 same crime, that would be subjected to those
10 same types of review.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
12 would the gentleman yield to another question or
13 two?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Senator, do you yield?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
17 President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
19 yields.
20 SENATOR WALDON: I noticed,
21 Senator -- and I thank you for responding so
22 quickly to my questions, but I noticed just now
23 you said felony. This would not include then
24 adultery, which is not a felony under the New
25 York statute, is that correct?
4614
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, those
2 are the enumerated offenses. I listed the
3 sections of the Penal Code. You're welcome to
4 review the enumerated crimes therein.
5 SENATOR WALDON: I didn't
6 understand what the gentleman said, Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Would the Senator yield to another question?
10 The Senator would like a clarification of your
11 answer.
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we've
13 enumerated the sections of offenses. Under the
14 sections I mentioned, the crime you mentioned
15 and the crime you asked about is not in those
16 sections.
17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you,
18 Senator.
19 May the gentleman -- may I
20 continue, Mr. President, if the gentleman would
21 yield to another question or two.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do
23 you yield, Senator?
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
25 President.
4615
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, what
4 proviso is being made in your proposal for the
5 incarceration of these people? Where will that
6 money come from to incarcerate these people who
7 will be imprisoned and subsequently released and
8 where will the money come for their treatment
9 modality?
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm
11 surprised you're asking such a question. The
12 incarceration of a criminal comes from -- as you
13 well know, Senator, comes from the budget that
14 we appropriate each year for the Corrections
15 Department, the Division of Parole and all other
16 criminal justice services in the state.
17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
18 gentleman yield again, Mr. President?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Does the Senator yield to another question?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
24 yields, Senator.
25 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
4616
1 President.
2 Senator Nozzolio, to be very
3 specific, the type of treatment that those who
4 are sex offenders require -- and I have been
5 down to, for example, Green Haven. I have been
6 to other prisons but that particular prison, if
7 I remember correctly, had a component that dealt
8 primarily with sex offenders. They require not
9 necessarily specialized treatment but perhaps it
10 is because you need psychosocial support systems
11 or at least some intervention by psychosocial
12 workers that other prisoners may not require.
13 Where is that money coming from? Is that also
14 from the budget?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
16 President, and let me explain just a few tenets
17 that led us to this point, Senator.
18 We recognize, very clearly, that
19 there are some programs in prison today dealing
20 with sex offenders. Frankly, as I look at those
21 programs myself -- and I visited the same place
22 as you have and maybe one or two more upstate -
23 that, in fact, those programs are anemic at
24 best. They, in effect, brand the prisoners
25 participating in those programs so that clearly
4617
1 they become -- the participants in the programs,
2 the sex offenders, in fact, as you well know
3 prison life, become targets in prison
4 themselves. Certainly a counterproductive
5 result that was never intended to see through
6 the establishment of the rehabilitative programs
7 in the first place.
8 To take it another step, once an
9 individual leaves incarceration -- and that's
10 what we're talking about here in the bill before
11 us -- to set up a mechanism that continues the
12 supervision of that individual, that it almost
13 becomes an addiction, in a sense, like drugs or
14 alcohol, this type of criminality that does
15 require and it's proven that the recidivism rate
16 for those convicted of these crimes is far in
17 excess of any other criminality.
18 So what we're focusing on is the
19 sex offender in saying that we understand that
20 there are many mental aspects to this crime,
21 mental disease aspects to this crime, that we
22 also understand that the recidivism rate is so
23 high, that we're saying that it's worth the
24 money to expend into parole for a lifetime
25 parole supervisor to review the constant -- and
4618
1 monitor the constant rehabilitation efforts of
2 sex offenders in an effort to stop that
3 recidivism rate or significantly reduce the
4 recidivism rate.
5 So that's our tenets, Senator,
6 and that's what we're focused on here in this
7 legislation.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
9 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Senator, do you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
15 does.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, have
17 you done any cost studies as to what it would
18 cost not only per sex offender that we know of
19 now but those who are anticipated to reflect
20 themselves in our system and who will live to be
21 older persons?
22 I did make a visit to a prison
23 downstate and when they wheeled in in
24 wheelchairs and on beds the seniors who were in
25 their 80s and 90s, I was overwhelmed by how long
4619
1 some of the people are living in our prisons who
2 are still in prison.
3 Are we prepared today to hear
4 from you the information as to what the cost
5 factor will be for monitoring these persons for
6 the remainder of their lives while they're
7 outside the prisons? Have we done any studies
8 in that regard?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we do
10 not have the demographics before you to tell you
11 the exact costs. However, just you add up the
12 math. One person in prison costs what, $20,000
13 a year to keep them in prison? We pay parole
14 officers maybe twice that amount. So if you -
15 per year. So if you could keep-- for every two
16 you keep out of prison each year through this
17 review, you're more than paying for a parole
18 officer to supervise their daily lives.
19 The cost, I believe will be more
20 than paid for. This will be a revenue neutral,
21 if not a cost saver for the state by having this
22 type of review, the money that we're going to be
23 saving in terms of the cost of incarceration and
24 recidivists. Just think, we're talking a
25 recidivism rate in the 70 range down. Those -
4620
1 70 percent of those who commit the crime, sent
2 to prison are going to come back and commit the
3 same crime. If we could reduce that recidivism
4 rate, we'll reduce the costs of incarceration,
5 and sure, it's going to cost us a little more
6 for parole, but I think it's going to be a saver
7 in the long run.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
9 gentleman yield again, Mr. President?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Does the Senator yield to another question?
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: .
15 He yields, Senator.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 I appreciate your patience,
19 Senator Nozzolio. I really do. I understand
20 from your proposal that if someone at age 90
21 committed an infraction, which would be a
22 technical violation, that that person would have
23 to summarily be returned to prison despite the
24 age factor. Is that accurate?
25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: In response,
4621
1 Senator, I hope you're not saying rape is a
2 technical violation of the Penal Law.
3 SENATOR WALDON: No. I didn't
4 say that at all.
5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I hope you're
6 not inferring that at all. We're talking about,
7 Senator Waldon, very serious criminality here,
8 rape, criminality against children, very severe
9 crimes and they're not technical. They're not
10 something you can sweep aside.
11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
12 if the gentleman would suffer an interruption.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Can
14 we let the gentleman finish the answer to the
15 question asked.
16 SENATOR WALDON: I think he's
17 completed. Would the gentleman yield again?
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm completed,
19 yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
21 will continue to yield, Senator.
22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
23 President.
24 Senator Nozzolio, with all due
25 respect and with great apology, I never intended
4622
1 for you to interpret what I said as meaning that
2 the crimes enumerated as sex offense crimes are
3 technical, though they are by letter of the law,
4 but that they are not heinous, that they are not
5 violent, that they are not something that we
6 should as a society wish to suppress.
7 The scenario I was orchestrating,
8 obviously inappropriately and without proper
9 illustration -- because you did not respond as I
10 thought you would -- was that if someone who has
11 been a sex offender, a violent sex offender and
12 is now on this lifetime parole passage that
13 you're orchestrating for us, happens to commit
14 an offense that would trigger them returning to
15 jail, you're not telling me that the only
16 offense from your proposal would trigger their
17 return to prison would be another sex offense,
18 and I said someone who's 90 years of age commits
19 a misdemeanor, jaywalks, an offense or whatever,
20 would that person -- would that person then
21 return immediately to prison?
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
23 in response to the Senator's question, Senator,
24 I'm sure you're aware of the parole revocation
25 process. That is a process that requires a
4623
1 hearing. It requires a determination that I
2 have great faith in the parole system to review
3 those types of jaywalking violations, as you
4 indicate, as not being subjected -- for a 90
5 year-old person to be subjected back to
6 incarceration. I think we have to have some
7 faith in the system and that they're going to
8 have a hearing. It will be -- if there is a
9 violation of parole, that revocation of parole
10 will -- will be established through the due
11 process hearing requirements, Senator. That
12 does not change with this bill. I know it's a
13 process that you support, and it's one that I
14 think certainly would be able to ferret out the
15 kinds of things that you have as concerns.
16 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
17 would the gentleman yield to just one more
18 question?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Does the Senator yield to one more question?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, to
22 one more question, yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
24 yields, Senator.
25 SENATOR WALDON: I thank you, Mr.
4624
1 President. I thank you, Senator Nozzolio.
2 Senator, my concern -- I'll
3 preface my question with this statement. My
4 concern is that people -- using your phrase, "We
5 should have faith in the system", that people
6 sometimes turn themselves around. Especially
7 when I visited the prison downstate, there were
8 those who were predicted from -- the social
9 workers and the psychosocial workers that I had
10 an opportunity to chat with were predicted to
11 have some success once released from prison and
12 would not necessarily return as recidivist
13 sexual offenders.
14 So it is my belief that, one,
15 some of those people will successfully
16 transition back to society. My second concern
17 is where will we get the money to continue to
18 monitor them 20, 30, 40, some 50 years, because
19 some of these people come out of prison at a
20 very young age and is it in our best interests
21 in society to continue to monitor people for
22 this length of time when we already have in the
23 community to which they return police officers.
24 We may even now have alerted the entire
25 community to what their history was, so everyone
4625
1 is watching them and, three, there may be some
2 saving grace in all of the support systems and
3 all of the psychosocial support therapies that
4 they receive which would preclude their actually
5 recidivating, their creating for themselves or
6 participating in an act which would send them
7 back to prison. So I think that that is a
8 concern.
9 So my question again is, what do
10 you offer to us as a way of paying for this,
11 which is an extraordinary expense, at a time of
12 diminished revenue in the state, despite the $2
13 billion coming to us from Wall Street? As a
14 rule of thumb over the last few years, we have
15 had less and less money to do more and more
16 with. Where are we going to get the money?
17 Show me the money that we will get in order to
18 monitor these people.
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I can
20 only respond to your statement this way.
21 Firstly, we have -- any attempt to cut the
22 recidivism rate for those who have committed
23 heinous sex offenses will save the taxpayers
24 money in terms of less people sent back to jail
25 because less people will be committing -- fewer
4626
1 people will be committing this crime.
2 Senator, I'm going to conclude in
3 response to your question by saying the victims
4 of sexual assault develop things like
5 post-traumatic stress syndrome, symptoms
6 including fear, helplessness, shock, disbelief,
7 guilt, humiliation, embarrassment, anger, self
8 blame, flashbacks of the rape, avoidance of
9 previously pleasurable activities. They are
10 victims for the rest of their lives, Senator,
11 and for you to put a price tag in a debate like
12 this, I think, Senator, trivializes, in large
13 part, the focus of the victim. I know you don't
14 intend to do that. I know your concerns are
15 certainly honorable but, Senator, I think we
16 have to look at the entire picture.
17 For every person that we save
18 from incarceration, from committing -- for every
19 person we save from committing this crime again,
20 we not only save money to the state. More
21 importantly, we save further victimization of
22 the citizens of this state, something that you
23 try to put a price tag on, Senator. I think the
24 cost is immeasurable and that, frankly, I don't
25 want to engage in that type of discussion.
4627
1 I think this bill more than pays
2 for itself but more importantly, any crime that
3 we can stop more than pays the cost of our
4 entire treasury.
5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you,
6 Senator Nozzolio.
7 Mr. President, on the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Waldon, on the bill.
10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 It would seem if we're going to
13 have lifetime parole for those who commit
14 serious sex offenses, we should as well have
15 lifetime parole for kidnappers, lifetime parole
16 for robbers, lifetime parole for those who
17 commit serious assaults with acid or knives or
18 guns or baseball bats or tire chains. Certainly
19 we should have lifetime parole for those who are
20 convicted of murder and then where will the
21 resources come from to maintain those people who
22 are on lifetime parole?
23 I don't understand distinguishing
24 between this one particular kind of act and all
25 of the other heinous crimes which are on the
4628
1 books of the state of New York. Why are we so
2 selective in this proposal only against those
3 who commit sexual offenses? Where is the phobia
4 originating? If we're going to do this and do
5 it right, let's include everybody who commits a
6 heinous act. Let's commit and include all of
7 those who are murderers, all of those who are
8 rapists, all of those who are sodomizers, all of
9 those who are robbers in the first degree, all
10 of those who kidnap. That would be equity in
11 terms of the application of the criminal justice
12 system, but I think it's unnecessary. I think
13 it is unnecessary.
14 I don't understand the
15 motivation, and the reason I chose to debate the
16 bill is I was trying to find a reason that this
17 bill is being proposed, a rational reason. I do
18 not find it.
19 And so I'll ask my colleagues to
20 oppose it and to vote against it, but in any
21 event, it seems to me that with the law
22 enforcement personnel that we have throughout
23 the state, with the parole officers we have in
24 place at this moment, with the very fine
25 probation system that we have in this state at
4629
1 this moment, with the courts being able to do
2 their job as they're able to do at this moment,
3 with outstanding district attorneys in the state
4 of New York at this moment, that this is
5 superfluous; it is not necessary and we should
6 not pursue this course of action.
7 I request respectfully that my
8 colleagues join with me in opposing this
9 proposal, and I shall vote no.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Senator Leichter.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Would
14 Senator Nozzolio yield, please?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Senator, do you yield to Senator Leichter?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
22 there's much in your bill that I like, but I
23 want to know whether this is an honest effort on
24 your part to present this and I'm not sure it
25 is.
4630
1 I listened to the debate between
2 you and Senator Waldon. I think that he asked
3 perfectly proper questions of what is going to
4 be the cost of this. So I want to pursue that
5 with you.
6 Now, you may be absolutely
7 correct that over 10 years, 20 years, 30 years,
8 40 years, this will really be a saving for the
9 people of the state of New York, and I accept
10 that but certainly in the first instance, it's
11 going to require an outlay because you provide
12 for residential treatment centers -- I don't
13 know if that's what you call them but I think
14 that's what it is -- for six months. Persons
15 upon being released are required to be in a
16 residential treatment center. Now, that's not
17 -- that's going to require putting money up
18 front and I'll probably support you on that, but
19 I think it's perfectly appropriate for somebody
20 to ask where is the money coming from? You say
21 the budget. That's fine. How much is it going
22 to cost? That's the question. Let's see
23 whether we can -- by pinpointing the residential
24 treatment center, whether we can get an answer
25 out of you.
4631
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
2 in response to Senator Leichter's question,
3 Senator, first of all, this is an honest
4 attempt. I wish you wouldn't try to put terms
5 of character involved in the efforts that are
6 good faith attempts here to rectify a
7 situation. I'm sure you didn't mean -- I would
8 hope that you didn't mean to impinge upon my
9 integrity by using the word "honest" but,
10 frankly, I think you should be careful about
11 throwing out such types of terms.
12 I wouldn't label your question a
13 dishonest question. I think that to you to
14 label my answer anything other than honest and
15 filled with integrity is, Senator, something
16 that I see too much of in this chamber and,
17 frankly, I wish that -- in an effort to create a
18 little more civility, I wish you would temper
19 your remarks in a more appropriate fashion
20 leaving out the word -- words that would somehow
21 impinge on an individual's character.
22 I have been honest in bringing
23 this measure before us and let me, in response
24 to your question, tell you that, Senator, I do
25 not own a crystal ball. I am not a future
4632
1 teller. I can only say that the true genuine
2 costs of this measure will be based on the
3 amount of sex offenders that we have in the
4 system. It's very difficult now to say but
5 hopefully as a result of this measure, we'll
6 have fewer sex offenders than we will -- would
7 otherwise have. We would have fewer people
8 going into prison, committing these crimes in
9 the first place.
10 Senator, this only applies to
11 retrospective -- it only applies to prospective
12 crimes and criminality. It doesn't apply to
13 anybody incarcerated today. It's so it's very
14 difficult to predict the exact cost.
15 Measuring the cost is also
16 determined on not just the number -- the
17 frequency of criminals entering into the system
18 but the true cost is gauged by how many
19 criminals we're also keeping out of the system
20 by their lack of participating in this criminal
21 conduct in the first place. Every person we can
22 keep out of jail from not committing this crime,
23 we not only save the victimization of those
24 individuals who have been attacked by sex
25 predators in the past but we also send less
4633
1 people -- fewer people to prison.
2 So in terms of gauging a cost,
3 Senator, it's very difficult for those -- those
4 reasons. However, logic would say that for -
5 that we have the highest amount of recidivism in
6 this crime. More people are committing this
7 crime again and again and again. After they
8 leave prison, you'll see more than half of them
9 come back to prison committing this same crime.
10 The more people we can keep out of this crime,
11 the less people -- fewer people will be sent to
12 prison. I think we'll see savings there.
13 Senator, I can't predict the
14 costs. I don't pretend to be able to predict
15 the costs but it's for those legitimate reasons
16 that we cannot say precisely what the costs will
17 be.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
19 if Senator Nozzolio would be good enough to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
22 Senator, do you yield for another question?
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
24 President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
4634
1 yields.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I certainly
3 wasn't impugning your integrity, but I think
4 that the members here have a right to examine to
5 see whether a bill is being put out for public
6 relations purposes or whether it's a serious
7 effort to try to get a program passed, and we
8 had a bill of yours last week, I think it was,
9 that very easily could have accomplished what
10 you wanted to if you, frankly, wanted to get
11 something passed with the votes of both sides of
12 the aisle, if you wanted it passed by the
13 Assembly. It seemed to me, frankly, that you
14 were more interested in making a statement
15 rather than passing a law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
17 Excuse me, gentlemen. Can -- in the interest of
18 time and debate, can we keep our references to
19 the bill in question and let's not debate bills
20 from a week ago. We have a bill before us. I
21 see no reason -- the Chair sees no reason to go
22 back and forth on a personal level. Can we keep
23 it on the bill.
24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
25 I think what I'm saying is relevant to what
4635
1 we're trying to accomplish, which is to find out
2 whether there's sufficient backup for this bill
3 to show that, by engaging in this effort to try
4 to pass the bill, we're going to be enacting a
5 program which, by the way, I would support but,
6 Senator Nozzolio, you know, when you were asked
7 about it by Senator Waldon, you took umbrage.
8 You said he's not concerned, as I understood you
9 to say, about victims. How can you put a cost
10 on it?
11 Well, Senator, we do it all the
12 time. We say the State Police, they save
13 lives. They do a lot of things that prevents
14 harm and yet we have a budget item for the State
15 Police. I don't think it's that hard to come up
16 with a budget item for this and it's probably
17 one that we ought to do that I would support,
18 but I don't know why you find it so difficult to
19 say that this is going to be a program that in
20 the first instance is going to require the
21 expenditure of money. It's going to be
22 expensive but it's money that the state of New
23 York ought to commit.
24 Let me -- let me try to see
25 whether we can come up with some idea of a
4636
1 figure. Senator, am I -
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm listening,
3 Senator, to your question.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, am I
5 correct in understanding that this bill, if it
6 became law, would apply to persons who are
7 presently serving sentences for any of the
8 crimes enumerated in your bill?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator,
10 you're incorrect.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm
12 incorrect? Would you show me where in the bill
13 it makes it clear that it does not apply to
14 people who are presently in prison for one of
15 the enumerated crimes.
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator,
17 you're incorrect because we're establishing a
18 new sentence, in effect, under this statute.
19 It's a sentence of lifetime parole which
20 accompanies the crime in chief. That sentence,
21 as you well know, can only be given
22 prospectively under the tenets of the United
23 States and New York Constitution. We're not
24 engaging in any retrospective sentencing through
25 this measure. It's only for those who are
4637
1 sentenced for crimes committed under the
2 enumerated felonies listed here in the bill
3 prospectively.
4 I should also add, in my response
5 to Senator Waldon's question -- maybe you
6 weren't in the room when it was raised but the
7 Senator said if there's a technical violation of
8 a measure. Well, frankly, Senator, remember -
9 let's keep our eye on the ball here. Remember
10 what we're dealing with. We're dealing with
11 those who have committed the most heinous crimes
12 you could possibly imagine and that tell the
13 women of this state that are raped, tell them -
14 the young children who are preyed upon by sex
15 predators that, in effect, this is not an
16 appropriate remedy. This is not something
17 that's appropriate.
18 So, Senator, that's my response
19 to your question.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
21 Nozzolio, if you would continue to yield. I -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Excuse me. Senator, do you continue to yield?
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
25 President.
4638
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have
2 difficulty understanding your making the
3 statement that this is a serious offense. We
4 understand that it's a very serious offense and
5 nothing that Senator Waldon said or I said,
6 Senator, indicates otherwise. In fact, I
7 support the basic premise of your bill.
8 So, Senator, I think, you know,
9 these sort of statements are frankly gratuitous
10 and if you want to talk about civility, and so
11 on, implying that in some respect Senator Waldon
12 wasn't concerned about victims or that those of
13 us who are questioning you are not concerned
14 about victims, I would urge you to pay
15 attention, frankly, to what it is we're asking
16 and what I asked you was very simple, which is
17 show me -- is there any language in your bill
18 that says that this bill does not apply solely
19 to people who are convicted after the effective
20 date of the bill?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Line 19 and 20
22 of page 3.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's line
24 19, page 3?
25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: My copy,
4639
1 Senator, may not be -- that's Section S.4.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry.
3 Section -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Section S.4, Senator, assuming his copy may be
6 different from yours.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't
8 believe there's any S.4, Senator.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Section -
10 we're adding -- Senator, let me read them in
11 appropriate -- I'm not sure what -- I have a
12 Bill Drafting copy of the measure. You probably
13 have the print, but "any person convicted of a
14 violation of" -- this is S -- Section S.4 of the
15 Penal Law is amended by adding a new Section 70
16 -- or 70.09 to read as follows. "70.09.
17 Lifetime Parole" -- under the sub-heading
18 "Lifetime Parole. Any person convicted of a
19 violation of enumerated sections in the Penal
20 Law shall, in addition to the sentence or fine
21 otherwise authorized by law, be sentenced to
22 lifetime parole." So we're talking about those
23 who are committing the crimes prospectively.
24 Senator, frankly, that's why it
25 becomes more difficult to ascertain a true,
4640
1 genuine, precise at this moment dollar cost to
2 this measure because we're talking about those
3 who are committing crimes prospectively. We're
4 also talking about hopefully keeping those who
5 are committing crimes out of jail, those who are
6 being sent to jail again and again because of
7 the recidivism rates for these types of offense,
8 Senator, being so high.
9 So I understand your desire to
10 find out the costs of measures. I think that's
11 certainly a legitimate inquiry, but I'm telling
12 you, Senator, that to determine the true costs
13 of this bill, we have to look at not just those
14 who are convicted and are going to be sentenced
15 to lifetime parole but how many we are
16 preventing from committing this crime in the
17 first place. How many we are preventing from
18 committing recidivism -- recidivating time and
19 time again, going back to jail two and three
20 times because they're continuing to commit this
21 crime. I would say if we spent the costs of
22 lifetime parole now under these offenses, that
23 we will more than make up for the costs of this
24 through the lifetime of the measure.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator
4641
1 Nozzolio would continue to yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3 Senator, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
6 does, sir.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I was
8 the one who questioned Megan's Law that Senator
9 Skelos proposed last year or two years ago on
10 the grounds of constitutionality and, as you
11 know, the court has declared its retroactive
12 features unconstituional, but it's clear to me
13 that we can provide for a particular crime that
14 the period of parole will change without, I
15 think, running afoul of the ex post facto law.
16 So I don't see anything in your bill that says
17 that this bill will apply only to persons who
18 are convicted subsequent to the date.
19 Now, I think there is one feature
20 of your bill that maybe would run afoul of that
21 and that is that you require the residential -
22 the restricted residences. That very well may
23 not be applicable to people if you tack it onto
24 their current sentences, but certainly the -
25 the aspects of your bill that should be done
4642
1 immediately such as -- and I assume you intend
2 them to be immediately, such as the fact that we
3 ought to have -- such as the fact that we ought
4 to have a program of treatment for sex
5 offenders. I think that's a very beneficial
6 feature of that bill and certainly ought to be
7 instigated immediately.
8 We certainly ought to -- I think
9 lifetime parole for sex offenders is something
10 that we can do immediately. So I would -- I
11 would think it's unfortunate if you now
12 interpret your own bill as not providing the
13 lifetime parole for persons who are presently in
14 prison for one of these enumerated offenses. I
15 think the only thing that raises a question
16 would be the restricted residences because that
17 clearly, I don't think we can do for persons who
18 are presently in prison for one of these
19 offenses. That, I think we could probably only
20 do prospectively.
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, if
22 you would suffer an interruption and, Mr.
23 President, if I could speak through you.
24 Mr. President, in asking you to
25 yield, Senator, we're not talking about any
4643
1 person who is in jail today receiving a sentence
2 of lifetime parole. This is only for
3 prospective conduct, Senator, and prospective
4 crimes and being sentenced prospectively for
5 lifetime parole. I respect yours and other
6 concerns of establishing laws and changing laws
7 for conduct that took place in the past. We're
8 talking prospectively, Senator, and this bill -
9 I need to clarify it for you. We're talking
10 about prospective sentences and this establishes
11 the ability, the sentence prospectively with a
12 lifetime parole sentence.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
14 on the bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Senator Leichter, on the bill.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I mean, I'm
18 sorry to have Senator Nozzolio, I think limit
19 his bill in a manner that isn't necessary. I
20 think that lifetime parole makes a lot of sense
21 and should not be prospective, and I would ask
22 you to reconsider that aspect of it because I
23 think you could perfectly well do it
24 constitutionally.
25 So I don't know why you say that
4644
1 you intend to do that only prospectively because
2 that -- that would mean that hundreds of inmates
3 -- and I don't know how many inmates are in
4 jail for one of these enumerated offenses, maybe
5 you do -- would not be subject to lifetime
6 parole and they should be, but I don't read your
7 bill that way. It isn't clear at all.
8 I think the only issue is whether
9 you could add onto it -- to the sentence of
10 somebody restricted residence. It seems clear
11 to me that you cannot but there are parts of
12 your bill that talk about if somebody's out on
13 parole, that he may have to serve that remainder
14 of his sentence in a restricted residence, which
15 I assume we can do.
16 So I'm -- it just seems to me,
17 Senator, that this could be set forth in a more
18 clearer fashion. We could have a fiscal note
19 that will say, Well, this will cost so much in
20 the first instance but it's something that we
21 ought to do because we are saving lives, keeping
22 lives from being ruined. We're hopefully
23 keeping people from becoming victims.
24 I'm just bothered every time when
25 we see these fiscal notes that everything that
4645
1 -- not everything, but so often our programs
2 are put forward and people are afraid to say
3 it's going to cost money. Say it, because it
4 happens to be true and it happens to be well
5 spent. By the same token you can say -- you
6 might just as well say for educational programs,
7 for educational aid. Oh, fiscal implication?
8 This will save us money because, I guess if we
9 educate more people, they're going to earn more
10 money and they'll pay more taxes. So in the
11 long run it's a good investment for the state of
12 New York but, Senator, in the short run, it's
13 going to require money and it's, I think, money
14 well spent and I -- when I said, is this an
15 honest effort, I think an honest effort would
16 require saying this will cost a certain amount
17 of money, and I just want to say that I think
18 Senator Waldon asked perfectly appropriate
19 questions, and I don't know whether he should
20 have been met with the attack that he doesn't
21 care about victims. He cares very much about
22 victims, but I think he asked appropriate
23 questions. I think I asked appropriate
24 questions and, frankly, I would think somebody
25 who puts forward a major program of this sort
4646
1 would be in a position to say I think it's going
2 to cost this amount of money initially but I'll
3 tell you this, that in 10 years, 20 years, 30
4 years, you're going to save money because you're
5 going to have fewer victims of these horrendous
6 crimes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
10 act shall take effect on the first day of
11 November.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
13 Call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1,
16 Senator Waldon recorded in the negative.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
18 bill is passed.
19 Senator Larkin.
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
21 would you now call Calendar Number 920, Senator
22 Nozzolio's.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
24 Secretary will read Calendar Number 920.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4647
1 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an
2 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to
3 requiring inmates to make medical co-payments.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Senator, an explanation has been asked for.
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, Mr.
7 President, my colleagues, this bill requires
8 inmates in New York State correctional
9 facilities to make co-payments for medical
10 services in the amount of $7 per visit. The
11 measure currently -- New York currently spends
12 over $120 million each year on prison health
13 services, which is just under $2,000 per
14 inmate.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect on the 100th -
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Excuse me. Senator Montgomery, why do you
21 rise?
22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would like
23 to ask if the sponsor would answer a couple of
24 inquiries about this legislation.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
4648
1 Senator, do you yield to Senator Montgomery?
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
5 yields, Senator.
6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank
7 you.
8 Senator Nozzolio, usually in the
9 instance of a co-payment that is required,
10 someone does have to pay even if the person is
11 indigent and that's been one of the problems for
12 health facilities when we require co-payment in
13 instances of Medicaid payments, that essentially
14 what happens is the health facility has to
15 suffer the loss in the event that the co-payment
16 is not made, and I'm just trying to figure out
17 based on your legislation who will pay for the
18 co-payment that is not paid by the -- in the
19 event it's not paid by the inmate?
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The mechanics
21 of the bill, Senator, allow that should an
22 inmate not have sufficient funds in his accounts
23 to cover the co-payment charges -- and we're
24 talking $7 of medical co-payment per visit,
25 which is -- we use the amount because I believe
4649
1 that those who are state employees under the
2 state plan have a $7 co-pay and why should those
3 hard-working people who work in our correctional
4 facilities have to pay a co-payment while those
5 who are incarcerated in our correctional
6 facilities do not have to pay a co-payment? To
7 me, that is such an unfair situation that I
8 believe it cried out for this rectification.
9 30 states are -- either have
10 enacted or have this proposal -- these proposals
11 pending for enactment. What we did here is
12 establish a co-payment equal to the state
13 charge. Should an inmate not have sufficient
14 funds in his account to cover the charges, then
15 his account -- and this is after the inmate goes
16 to receive the medical treatment. No one will
17 be denied treatment but a -- regardless of
18 whether they have the co-payment or not, but
19 each inmate will be logged and those, in effect,
20 will be billed for their payment.
21 Each inmate, as you well know,
22 has an inmate account. Some of those accounts
23 get to be pretty large in terms of sufficient
24 cash through time, that we, in effect, will be
25 debiting the accounts of inmate per their
4650
1 co-payment. An inmate shall not -- as I should
2 emphasize to you and my colleagues, no one will
3 be refused treatment for lack of ability to pay
4 co-payment charges. The charge is assessed
5 after completion of the visit when the log is
6 processed and that -- I believe that -- if your
7 question was whether an inmate, if they cannot
8 pay in terms of their account is vacant, if they
9 have no money in the account, then it's just a
10 negative balance.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
12 Nozzolio, I see in your support memo that we
13 currently spend 121 million or 2,000 per inmate
14 on prison health services. Does that mean then
15 that we are going to make an adjustment to that
16 121 million based on the co-payments, or are we
17 -- will the facility collect the money from the
18 inmates which increases ultimately the 121
19 million for whatever amount it might be and do
20 you know what that amount might be?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly,
22 Senator, that whatever savings are generated
23 will be money coming into the state coffers, are
24 not being expended in the state coffers. It
25 would be up to this Legislature and the Assembly
4651
1 to hammer out a plan as to where those
2 additional savings will go to, but just in New
3 York State, let me just give you an example of
4 one inmate who went to sick call 52 times in
5 eight months, 17 times for colds, 13 times for
6 dandruff, 4 times for ear wax, 6 times for
7 athletes foot, 7 times for a toothache and 5
8 times for muscular aches, or another who went 19
9 times in two months, 7 for colds, 3 for
10 insomnia, 3 for callouses, 3 for a headache and
11 3 for an old healed finger injury. There's an
12 abuse of the system here that is not just by
13 these two inmates but across the board. It's an
14 enormous medical cost. It's also a cost in
15 terms of lost time, managerial costs.
16 What we're saying is we're not
17 trying to deny payments or to deny services to
18 those who are truly needy of services. We're
19 not going to deny services to anybody who
20 legitimately is sick and cannot pay, but we are
21 setting up a mechanism so that the taxpayers can
22 be reimbursed for this medical -- at least a
23 small portion of this medical cost. I believe
24 that this will also add as a chilling effect -
25 will have a chilling effect on those who are
4652
1 continually abusing the system.
2 Your employees or the employees
3 of any correctional facility could not get this
4 type of medical treatment. Why should the
5 inmates of this state be using sick call as a
6 way to avoid work in the prison, to avoid their
7 responsibilities in a prison, to break up their
8 routine? Those are the inmates we are trying to
9 stop from abusing the system, Senator, and
10 that's why the bill is before us.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
12 Nozzolio -- Mr. President, through you, I would
13 like to -
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Senator, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
18 yields, Senator.
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
20 Nozzolio, you say that you are going to reduce
21 -- this is a budget measure, apparently, that
22 you're looking to raise funds in addition to
23 discouraging the use of the medical facilities.
24 How much are you anticipating raising with this
25 measure? Do you have any idea what you might -
4653
1 what kind of budget implication this measure
2 means for us?
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I
4 think we need to look at this in a couple of
5 ways. Those states that have established this
6 co-payment, some states, the sick call visits by
7 inmates were reduced as high as 76 percent. We
8 also -- let's assume that we could do half of
9 that. Let's say we were able to reduce sick
10 call costs by 30 percent. More appropriately,
11 we would be saving money for the taxpayers and
12 also have scarce medical resources available for
13 those inmates who are truly sick.
14 I have been to many of the
15 prisons, our women's prisons, in particular,
16 which I think you would be very sensitive to.
17 There is a tremendous amount of sickness on
18 behalf of inmates in our women's facilities. I
19 would say more so than our men's, although
20 they're both -- there are many, many sick people
21 in our state prisons today, tuberculosis, HIV.
22 They are very serious, serious matters.
23 What I'm saying is let's take the
24 inmates out of sick call who are complaining
25 about hangnails or are complaining about things
4654
1 that are very, very on the margin and let's
2 focus medical attention on those who are very
3 sick. I think that's really another aspect here
4 that should not be missed or glossed over, that
5 this measure allows us to take doctor's time -
6 which is scarce. It's a resource in prison -
7 and focus it on those who are seriously sick as
8 opposed to those who may be using the system to
9 abuse it.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
11 President, if the Senator will -- I'm listening
12 carefully at what -- his answer to that question
13 in terms of what it's going to save us and you
14 indicate that some states have saved up to 76
15 percent and you also indicate in your answer
16 that the most serious illnesses will not be
17 affected by this particular measure, but I don't
18 see anywhere in the legislation where it
19 indicates that you will not have to make the
20 co-payment if you have, in fact, one of the
21 kinds of illnesses that you describe as being
22 more serious like tuberculosis, and I also would
23 like to ask you, since we understand that
24 there's a large percentage of inmates who are
25 HIV-positive, many of them with active cases of
4655
1 AIDS, what do you propose we do with those
2 inmates, assuming they're going to have to have
3 more intensive and extensive medical care?
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, line
5 18 through 20 on page 1 of the bill talks about
6 those inmates who are -- have no ability to pay
7 their co-payment charges. An inmate is not
8 going to be refused treatment for their
9 inability to pay but there will be a lien on
10 their account so that an inmate account -- as
11 you know, every inmate has an account. Some
12 have pretty big accounts. This allows the
13 Department of Corrections to put a lien on their
14 inmate account so that if at the end of their
15 sentence, they'll make a provision -- they'll
16 have the lien on the account through the time of
17 incarceration and if there is any money in that
18 account, it will be returned to the taxpayers.
19 If not, then there may be some collection
20 processes established but there are none in this
21 bill.
22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And one last
23 question, Senator Nozzolio. How much -- what
24 percent of income are we speaking about here?
25 What exactly is -- what do we pay inmates per
4656
1 diem for their work?
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: We pay inmates
3 three square meals a day. We pay inmates
4 housing. We pay inmates cable television. We
5 pay for inmates to get their high school
6 equivalency. We're paying and paying and
7 paying. For those inmates who work -- and
8 unfortunately, Senator, work is not a
9 requirement in our correctional facilities. I
10 would like to see the day when this Legislature
11 stands up and supports measures that would
12 require inmates to work. We have no requirement
13 that they work. They make, in some of the
14 prison industries, up to $5 an hour -- a day,
15 rather. I'm sorry -- up to $5 a day.
16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: $5 a day.
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: So that a $25
18 a week account can add up, as you can see, very
19 quickly. An inmate who is working would be an
20 inmate who would certainly be able to have an
21 account in order for them to make purchases.
22 They have these inmate accounts. The inmate
23 account is there and that we're just saying for
24 the costs of medical care, a small charge should
25 be incurred.
4657
1 Also, the state -- just to save
2 the costs, the state of New Jersey has
3 instituted this program. They cut their costs,
4 I believe the first year by about $10 million.
5 Florida, in the first year, saw an extreme lack
6 of -- an extreme reduction in the amount of sick
7 calls used. Co-payments totaled in the first
8 two years almost $1 million back to the system,
9 but I must add that I'm not naive to think that
10 this is a perfect system. No way is it intended
11 -- or proposed that it's a perfect system.
12 What we're saying here, though,
13 is in small measure, we're going to have inmates
14 be responsible for some of the costs of their
15 incarceration and some of the costs of their
16 health care, just like every citizen. In effect
17 -- look at it this way. It not only saves
18 money for the taxpayers but it also has -
19 instills a value here upon the inmate, that in
20 order to receive a service, you have to pay for
21 the service. I think it just is a good part of
22 rehabilitation in terms of focusing real world
23 experiences upon our prison inmates.
24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you.
4658
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
2 Nozzolio.
3 Let me speak just briefly on the
4 legislation.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 Senator Montgomery, on the bill.
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I understand
8 Senator Nozzolio's anguish with the fact that we
9 provide medical services to inmates while we
10 don't provide free of charge necessarily medical
11 services to the people who work in Corrections
12 or any other group of citizens who can afford to
13 pay or who are insured by the state or some
14 municipality or some private industry, but it
15 really is very unfortunate that the Senator
16 selects this means which essentially punishes
17 people who are already incarcerated and who are
18 already being -- suffering whatever the
19 appropriate punishment that we have established
20 for them in the state. He wants to further
21 punish them by forcing them to pay $7 per visit
22 for medical care and it is -- it is purported
23 that we are going to save money or raise money
24 in the process and the unfortunate thing is that
25 we have a system where we have large numbers of
4659
1 people who are -- who live very close to each
2 other, in some instances two people in one cell
3 and they are not only -- it's not only a place
4 where it's very easy to have diseases of all
5 sorts be quickly spread among populations of
6 inmates but also to the outside world through
7 the corrections personnel, and it seems to me to
8 be penny-wise and pound-foolish to take that
9 kind of chance just to further punish the
10 inmates and to ostensibly save a little money
11 and, of course, Senator Nozzolio does not
12 indicate what exactly he sees us saving or how
13 much this is going to really ultimately impact
14 on the budget if at all.
15 So I urge my colleagues to really
16 reject this notion that we should -- we should
17 essentially take medical services away or the
18 availability of medical services away from
19 inmates because having access and -- complete
20 and free access to medical services is much
21 safer for us in terms of the health of the
22 communities to which those inmates will return,
23 the health of the other inmates in the facility
24 and the health of the corrections people. I
25 think it's much more important that we have
4660
1 those services so that we can protect the health
2 of all of those people, of all of us as opposed
3 to trying to raise a little money this way and
4 ultimately prevent inmates from accessing health
5 care.
6 So I urge a no vote on this
7 bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Waldon.
10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
11 much. Would the sponsor yield for a question or
12 two?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 Senator Nozzolio, would you yield to Senator
15 Waldon?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
18 yields, sir.
19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are you
20 aware of restitution as part of their estate
21 where someone is ordered to pay restitution, as
22 part of their penalty?
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator.
24 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
25 gentleman continue to yield?
4661
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Continue to yield? He does.
3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, have
4 you computed the cost of the wash cloth, the
5 towel, the tooth brush, the tooth paste, the
6 uniform, have you considered that maybe this is
7 part of it?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator,
9 I have thought of it, and I certainly would
10 understand your concern with any inmate's cost
11 of their incarceration, but I wanted to start
12 here, Senator, in all seriousness because this
13 is an enormous problem and this is why we
14 started here. It's a problem because, if you go
15 to the prison, you see sick calls being used
16 really not for the intention and really not the
17 purposes that it was intended, and that's why we
18 focused on this issue first.
19 SENATOR WALDON: Will the
20 gentleman continue to yield, Senator?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
23 yields, Senator.
24 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
25 President. Thank you, Senator.
4662
1 Then, Senator, since it is such a
2 problem and it is so rampant, from your
3 characterization, can you tell us how many times
4 sick call was resorted to in 1996 or how many
5 sick calls were made in 1995 or how many sick
6 calls were made in 1994? Can you give us some
7 data on that?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I do
9 not have the number of sick calls. I have the
10 total amount of money we spend on the medical
11 costs up there. It's about 120 million, $121
12 million on prison health services. I think on
13 all the costs of incarceration, we're spending
14 121 million on just medical services.
15 SENATOR WALDON: Would the
16 gentleman continue to yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do
18 you continue to yield, Senator?
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
21 does, Senator.
22 SENATOR WALDON: Would I be fair,
23 Senator Nozzolio, in eliciting from what you
24 said that that $120 million includes operations
25 ordered by the doctor, those patients who have
4663
1 HIV/AIDS who are treated by the doctors; it
2 would include dental situations; it would
3 include appendectomies, colostomies, whatever is
4 required by the prison doctors on behalf of the
5 patients, not just sick call visits that were
6 done to beat the system?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, I believe
8 that's fair, Senator.
9 SENATOR WALDON: Senator
10 Nozzolio, would you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
14 yields, Senator.
15 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir.
16 Senator, you are probably our expert on the
17 prisons in this chamber. You have a greater
18 awareness than the rest of us and we appreciate
19 you for that, so you understand the importance
20 of the money and the cigarettes and that whole
21 underground situation that is the prisons.
22 Those of us who are aware of what prisons are
23 really like know that, if there's not
24 cooperation between the warden and the people
25 who work with the prisons, the guards and the
4664
1 prisoners, that we have complete chaos and
2 within the prison community they have unwritten
3 rules in terms of their economy and their
4 bartering system, and what you're proposing is
5 taking the 62 cents per hour that some of them
6 make, utilizing it for sick call and taking away
7 what, in effect, might be the recreation money
8 for a number of prisoners.
9 Have you considered the chaos
10 that that might create when people do not have
11 enough to subsist within the prison system?
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator,
13 certainly there's a -- by establishing the
14 costs, there are inmates, there will have to be
15 inmates who have to make a decision, and what
16 I'm trying to prevent is those who are making
17 the decision not to work, not to participate in
18 programs but to go to sick call. I think it's
19 become a career for some inmates. Those are -
20 are seen, as I've read, I don't know if you
21 heard my comments in response to Senator
22 Montgomery, but I mentioned the inmate who went
23 to sick call 19 times in the last -- within a
24 two- or three-week period. That's what we're
25 trying to prevent by this bill too. It's not
4665
1 the person with serious illness. It's not the
2 person with an occasional visit to the sick call
3 that will be in any way really affected by this
4 measure to a great degree.
5 I mean we're talking about
6 inmates who work. We're saying it's maybe a
7 day's wages for those who are working but it -
8 frankly, I don't think it's going to be a big
9 dent in any inmate's pocket and, more
10 importantly, it's a huge cost that we're bearing
11 for those inmates who are abusing the system, so
12 if we can put this in and help stop that abuse,
13 help reduce that abuse, I think we're all going
14 to be further ahead, and I think that chaos you
15 describe, we already have chaos now in the sick
16 call process. It's the amount of management
17 time, guards, correction officers, that
18 accompany people the frequent sick call visits,
19 taking them out of the general population,
20 putting them in the sick call, it's just an
21 enormous managerial problem as well, so I think
22 we have -- it would be -- I think the chaos you
23 described is -- I think, would certainly be
24 mitigated by these other circumstances we're
25 discussing.
4666
1 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
2 would the gentleman indulge me for just one or
3 two more questions?
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Of course, Mr.
5 President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir.
9 Senator, I know that you're aware of our
10 constitutional guarantees in regard to cruel and
11 unusual punishment and you're also aware
12 historically of ex post facto law in this
13 country, and that we're not supposed to, in an
14 unusual and cruel manner, punish people
15 unnecessarily and that, after an act is
16 committed which was O.K. when it was committed,
17 we're not supposed to then find them guilty of
18 something that was not a crime at the moment
19 that it was committed.
20 Could you characterize the
21 punishment -- in your thought process, can you
22 characterize the punishment of the co-pay for
23 the medical treatment perhaps as coming under
24 the umbrella of cruel and unusual punishment and
25 perhaps as implementing ex post facto laws?
4667
1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, it's,
2 I believe, certainly a relevant and
3 thought-provoking question. The Supreme Court
4 in Revere vs. Massachusetts General Hospital,
5 United States Supreme Court, found in 1983 that
6 as long as the inmate received the necessary
7 attention, state law should determine who paid
8 for that attention, so in effect, as long as
9 this bill would not prevent an inmate from
10 getting the medical services they needed, which
11 it does not, the mechanisms we have in the bill
12 allow, at the threshold, the inmate to get the
13 attention, and then his account will be debited
14 so it doesn't say to pay the money first and
15 then you receive the care. It says you get the
16 care and your account, by the way, is going to
17 be taken out $7 for that visit.
18 The court said, as long as care
19 is not prohibited, prevented from being
20 received, it is not unconstitutional, so I
21 believe we certainly -- and many states have
22 since that decision, taken this co-payment issue
23 up. New Jersey was first on this for inmate
24 co-pay for inmate medical services so, Senator,
25 certainly your concerns are legitimate in my
4668
1 view and that I hope that this answers your
2 question.
3 SENATOR WALDON: I thank you very
4 much, Senator Nozzolio.
5 Mr. President, on the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator Waldon, on the bill.
8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
9 President. Thank you, by the way, Senator
10 Nozzolio.
11 It is my belief that we are
12 really stretching here. The court heard the
13 case. The jury rendered its decision.
14 Hopefully a jury of one's peers found whomever
15 this person is that is being dealt with by the
16 criminal justice system, a jury of that person's
17 peers found him or her guilty and the person is
18 now serving time, hard time, in the prisons of
19 this state because once you get above a year's
20 penalty, it is definitely hard time. To take a
21 year out of someone's life or more is
22 definitely, in my opinion, hard time, and I
23 think that it's just ludicrous that we should
24 then burden the system with the managerial
25 aspect of checking on the prison, debiting and
4669
1 crediting accounts in regard to payment, but I
2 think from a moral perspective, from a human
3 equation perspective that to me this petty, this
4 punitive, this myopic, this narrow in terms of
5 our vision, really does not bespeak of the great
6 state that New York is or the great criminal
7 justice system that we have had historically,
8 and I would encourage us to be better than this,
9 to look beyond this, to have greater vision and
10 greater sensitivity to ourselves, not just those
11 who are in prison and to oppose this proposal.
12 I would encourage all of us on
13 Senate 3429 to vote loudly in the no.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
16 Senator Leichter.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if
18 Senator Nozzolio would yield, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Senator, do you yield to Senator Leichter?
21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Senator yields, sir.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if we
4670
1 could take a look together at line 5 of your
2 bill which talks about medical treatment, am I
3 correct that the co-payment is due for each
4 medical treatment?
5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Line 5,
6 Senator, of page -
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: On page 1.
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And the
9 section 607.5?
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, 607.
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And your
12 question, Senator?
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: The question
14 is, is the co-payment due for each medical
15 treatment?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Each visit,
17 Senator, each medical visit in line with as a
18 co-payment now is through our insurance policies
19 per visit, our plan, our state employee plan is
20 per visit, so if there are a number of
21 procedures incurred during that visit, it would
22 only be per visit, not per procedure.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: With all due
24 respect, Senator Nozzolio, if you would be good
25 enough to yield, and you've certainly corrected
4671
1 what I thought was an unclear provision of the
2 bill, don't you think that the bill ought to be
3 amended to make clear that you're talking about
4 visits, one visit -- you talk about treatment.
5 Taking blood is a treatment, giving a pill is a
6 treatment, taking some blood pressure is another
7 treatment. Shouldn't you, therefore, say per
8 visit?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Under 607.2,
10 Senator, that's line 5 of the bill, page one,
11 each inmate shall be required to sign a log
12 documenting the schedule of time of visit. If
13 that visit is the determining factor of the
14 co-payment, that the log is based on a per visit
15 basis, it's not based on a per procedure basis,
16 so that when the log -- the log is the -- will
17 be the determinative or the guidepost, if you
18 will, the billing on account system used by the
19 Corrections Department, so that on each visit
20 the inmate will be assessed, not -- there's no
21 intention of any other -- it says right in the
22 statute, right in the bill here, we're talking
23 about per visit.
24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator,
25 again if you would be -
4672
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Senator Nozzolio, you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
6 yields.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Section 2
8 really refers to the process of billing the
9 inmate since -- at each visit, but section 607
10 says very clearly that the amount of $7 shall be
11 due on the receipt of each medical treatment. I
12 mean it's perfectly clear and plain.
13 I understand -- I understand what
14 you mean, Senator Nozzolio -- I understand what
15 you mean, but very frankly, the only
16 interpretation of your bill is that an inmate
17 who comes in, like an inmate who's hospitalized,
18 may get 6 or 7 or 8 or 10 different treatments
19 in the course of a day, and under this bill
20 would be charged $7 for each such treatment.
21 On the other hand, an inmate who
22 comes in, the doctor or the nurse takes a look
23 at him and says, You're fine, get out of here,
24 wouldn't have to pay anything because he never
25 received any medical treatment, so I think
4673
1 again, Senator Nozzolio, I would -- I would urge
2 you to take a look at the language of your bill
3 and see if it really accomplishes your purpose.
4 Let me ask you just one other
5 question. Again, language that I just cannot
6 understand. This is line 22 on page 1. I'll
7 read the sentence and ask if you tell us what
8 its meaning is. "Federal inmates will be billed
9 directly through the jurisdiction which was
10 agreed to by the federal agency."
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
12 Senator, we have no authority to impose this
13 type of co-payment onto federal inmates and
14 there are some -- and there are some federal
15 inmates that are, for facility provided reasons,
16 that this prohibits us from assessing -- in
17 effect, we have no authority to assess onto
18 federal inmates, and so that we're saying that
19 if those -- as you well know, some of our
20 inmates get a federal per diem for being housed
21 at local and state facilities, and it doesn't
22 happen often, but it does happen often enough
23 and it doesn't happen every day but it happens
24 often enough that federal inmates are receiving
25 incarceration, are being incarcerated in state
4674
1 facilities as convicted of federal crimes or
2 otherwise sentenced by federal courts so that
3 that's why the -- we have to place the federal
4 admonition here as it reads because we just
5 don't have any authority to make that test.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you very
7 much, Senator Nozzolio, and I appreciate your
8 willingness. Always willing to answer questions
9 and I think that certainly speaks well to having
10 a process that enables us to try to understand
11 your bills, and I thank you for that.
12 Just very briefly, on the bill,
13 Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Senator Leichter, on the bill.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I just focused
17 on some of the specific language difficulties in
18 the bill, and I think anybody who looks at it
19 would have to come to the same conclusion that I
20 did, that while Senator Nozzolio's intent is
21 obviously to deal with ambulatory visits and to
22 charge $7 for each visit, it just doesn't say
23 that. It says very clearly co-payment in the
24 amount of $7 upon receipt of medical treatment.
25 The reference to visits is for the mechanism to
4675
1 try to collect the money which -- I'm sorry,
2 reminds me.
3 Senator Nozzolio, I did want to
4 ask you one other question if you would be kind
5 enough to yield for it.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator, do you yield for one more question? He
8 does.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Have you -
10 have you checked with the Department of
11 Correction what their view is of this bill
12 because obviously this requires a large
13 administrative effort by the Department? Are
14 they in support of this bill?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, that
16 -- I know the measure is under review by the
17 Department. They've taken no formal position on
18 the measure.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I see. Thank
20 you.
21 It's clear to me that the bill is
22 not written to accomplish its purpose. Even if
23 it were, I don't want to hide behind some
24 technicality. I don't like the bill for the
25 reasons stated by Senator Montgomery and Senator
4676
1 Waldon, but I point out in addition that this
2 bill is going to or may very well end up costing
3 money because it imposes administrative burdens
4 on the Department.
5 I think it's highly unlikely that
6 you're going to be able to collect money from
7 the inmates, yet you have to set up this entire
8 system, and I think that's why we have no views
9 expressed by the Department. Clearly if this is
10 going to bring in a lot of money to the
11 Department, they would be the first ones to urge
12 us to pass this bill. They don't urge us to
13 pass this bill, and for very obvious reasons
14 because I don't think it is going to save
15 money. I think it is going to create problems
16 in the facility. I think we have an obligation
17 to provide medical treatment for people who are
18 incarcerated. I think the way to deal with the
19 malingerers is there is no obligation. If
20 somebody comes and says for the third day in a
21 row, Please take me to the doctor, I have
22 dandruff or whatever claims to be ailing him or
23 her, the guard could say, No, I'm not going to
24 do it, and that happens all the time and that's
25 really how the facility deals with people who
4677
1 abuse the medical services.
2 Yes, if you have 60-, 70,000
3 inmates as we do, you're going to have a medical
4 cost for taking care of them. We have a cost
5 for feeding them, housing them, and so on. It's
6 part of the cost that we have to pay for taking
7 violent people or people who have committed in
8 fraction of the law off the streets, but to say
9 they're going to charge them for their medical
10 services, I think, is ill founded, ill thought
11 out. I don't think it's going to work and, in
12 any respect, this bill doesn't even accomplish
13 what it seeks to do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll. )
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Get
22 Markowitz.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
24 the negative on -- those recorded in the
25 negative on Calendar Number 920 are Senators
4678
1 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Paterson,
2 Sampson, Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and Waldon.
3 Ayes 49, nays 9.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
5 bill is passed.
6 Senator Present, that concludes
7 the reading of the controversial calendar. We
8 do have a report of the Rules Committee. May we
9 read that?
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
11 let's return to reports of standing committees.
12 I understand there's a report of the Rules
13 Committee there. May we have that?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Secretary will read the report of the Rules
16 Committee.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
18 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
19 following bills:
20 Senate Print 304, by Senator
21 Markowitz, an act authorizing the city of New
22 York to reconvey its interest;
23 342, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
24 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
25 726, by Senator Saland, an act to
4679
1 amend the Executive Law;
2 1273, by Senator Stachowski, an
3 act to amend the General Municipal Law;
4 2174, by Senator Oppenheimer, an
5 act to authorize the town of Harrison, West
6 chester County;
7 2844, by Senator Tully, an act
8 authorizing the assessor of the county of
9 Nassau;
10 3950-A, by Senator Johnson, an
11 act to authorize the Ingracia Pentecostal;
12 3951-A, by Senator Johnson, an
13 act to authorize the Church of God;
14 3992, by Senator Libous, an act
15 to amend the General Municipal Law;
16 4062, by Senator Velella, an act
17 to amend the Insurance Law;
18 4372, by Senator Libous, an act
19 to amend the Tax Law;
20 4472, by Senator Libous, an act
21 to amend the Executive Law;
22 4487, by Senator Velella, an act
23 to amend the Public Authorities Law;
24 4501, by Senator Tully, an act
25 authorizing the assessor of the county of
4680
1 Nassau;
2 4681, by Senator Tully, an act
3 authorizing the assessor of the county of
4 Nassau;
5 4977-A, by Senator Holland, an
6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
7 5052, by Senator Libous, an act
8 to amend the Executive Law;
9 5284, by Senator Libous, an act
10 to amend the Education Law;
11 5305, by Senator Holland, an act
12 to amend the Social Services Law;
13 5321, by Senator Tully, an act to
14 amend the Civil Rights Law;
15 5323, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
16 to amend Chapter 55 of the Laws of 1992;
17 5324, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
18 to amend the Executive Law;
19 5325, by Senator Volker, an act
20 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
21 5367, by Senator Goodman, an act
22 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
23 5396, by Senator Volker, an act
24 to amend the Penal Law; and
25 5404, by the Senate Committee on
4681
1 Rules, an act to amend the General Municipal
2 Law.
3 All bills ordered directly for
4 third reading.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 Senator Present.
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
8 I move we accept the report of the Rules
9 Committee.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All
11 in favor of accepting the report of the Rules
12 Committee signify by saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 Opposed nay.
15 (There was no response. )
16 The report is accepted.
17 Senator Present.
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
19 is there any housekeeping at the -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Senator Rath.
22 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr.
23 President. On page 50, I offer the following
24 amendments to Calendar Number 376, Senate Print
25 Number 3481-B and ask that said bill retain its
4682
1 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
3 ordered.
4 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I
5 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 1299,
6 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the
7 desk.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 196, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1299, an
12 act to amend the Town Law.
13 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I
14 now move to reconsider the vote by which the
15 bill was passed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
17 Call the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll on
19 reconsideration. )
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
21 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I
22 now offer the following amendments.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
24 Amendments accepted.
25 Senator Present.
4683
1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
2 I move we adjourn until Wednesday, June 4th, at
3 11:00 a.m.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: On
5 the motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
6 Wednesday, June 4, at 11:00 a.m., at 11 a.m.,
7 sharp.
8 (Whereupon at 2:58 p.m., the
9 Senate adjourned.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18