Regular Session - June 24, 1997

                                                                 
5816

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         8                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                         June 24, 1997

        10                          1:35 p.m.

        11

        12

        13                       REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        19

        20

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        22

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        25







                                                             
5817

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         4       take their chairs, the staff to find their

         5       places.  I'd ask everybody in the chamber to

         6       rise and join with me in saying the Pledge of

         7       Allegiance to the Flag, and please remain

         8       standing for the invocation.

         9                      (The assemblage repeated the

        10       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

        11                      We're very pleased to have the

        12       Reverend Matthew Perkins from the Congregational

        13       Christian Church from Ravena, New York with us

        14       for the invocation.

        15                      Father Perkins.

        16                      REVEREND MATTHEW H. PERKINS:  Let

        17       us pray.  Almighty and most gracious God, grant

        18       us the sense of peace and of rest.  We are

        19       tired.  We want and hope for Your guidance and

        20       Your grace as we go about our work, our business

        21       and our busyness.  Amen.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       reading of the Journal.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        25       Monday, June 23.  The Senate met pursuant to







                                                             
5818

         1       adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon

         2       designation of the Temporary President.  The

         3       Journal of Sunday, June 22nd, was read and

         4       approved.  On motion, the Senate adjourned.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

         6       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

         7       read.

         8                      Presentation of petitions.

         9                      Messages from the Assembly.

        10                      Messages from the Governor.

        11                      Reports of standing committees.

        12                      Reports of select committees.

        13                      Communications and reports from

        14       state officers.

        15                      Motions and resolutions.

        16                      Senator Maziarz.

        17                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      Mr. President, on page number 37,

        20       I offer the following amendments to Calendar

        21       Number 1252, Senate Print Number 5359, and ask

        22       that said bill retain its place on the Third

        23       Reading Calendar.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       amendments to Calendar Number 1252 are received







                                                             
5819

         1       and adopted and the bill will retain its place

         2       on the Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      Senator Holland, we have a couple

         4       of substitutions from the Assembly, if we might

         5       read those.

         6                      The Secretary will read the

         7       substitutions.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 37,

         9       Senator Maziarz moves to discharge from the

        10       Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 352-B

        11       and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading Calendar 1331.

        13                      And on page 38, Senator Waldon

        14       moves to discharge from the Committee on

        15       Corporations, Authorities and Commissions

        16       Assembly Bill Number 3898 and substitute it for

        17       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1336.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       substitutions are ordered.

        20                      Senator Trunzo, why do you rise?

        21                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

        22       would you please remove the star on Calendar

        23       Number 492.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The star

        25       on Calendar Number 492 is removed at the request







                                                             
5820

         1       of the sponsor.

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         4       at this time may we please have the reading of

         5       the non-controversial calendar.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the non-controversial

         8       calendar.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       52, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 419-A, an

        11       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        12       relation to mandatory revocations.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect in 30 days.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       91, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 780-A, an act

        25       to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation







                                                             
5821

         1       to county planning boards.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

         5       act shall take effect on the first day of July.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       110, by Senator Present, Senate Print 765-A, an

        14       act to amend the State Administrative Procedure

        15       Act, in relation to compliance requirements.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       125, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 931-A, an

        21       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        22       prohibiting the direct merchandising.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        25       bill aside.







                                                             
5822

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       126, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1373-A, an

         3       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         4       the task force on school community

         5       collaboration.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       178, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print

        18       2227-A -

        19                      SENATOR SMITH:  Lay it aside,

        20       please.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       193, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1097, an act

        25       to amend the Labor Law, in relation to direct







                                                             
5823

         1       sellers.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       224, by member of the Assembly McGee, Assembly

        14       Print 1476, Senate Reprint 21001, an act to

        15       amend the New York State Urban Development

        16       Corporation Act.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
5824

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       280, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2514-A, an

         4       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       329, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1167, an act

        10       to amend the Election Law, in relation to

        11       polling places.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       341, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2550-A, an

        24       act to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle

        25       and Traffic Law, in relation to motor vehicle







                                                             
5825

         1       accident prevention courses.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect in 120 days.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36, nays 1,

        10       Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       348, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3088, an

        15       act to amend the General Business Law, in

        16       relation to possession and sale of drug-related

        17       paraphernalia.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.







                                                             
5826

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       367, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2734-A, an

         5       act to amend the State Finance Law, in relation

         6       to filing authorization.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         9       bill aside.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       447, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3070, an

        12       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        13       possession of gambling devices.

        14                      SENATOR SMITH:  Lay it aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       500, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2860-A, an

        19       act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in

        20       relation to extending the period of repayment.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
5827

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       501, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly

         8       Print 6024-A, an act to amend the Public Housing

         9       Law, in relation to the procurement by housing

        10       authorities.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       541, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 610-A, an act

        23       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        24       relation to the seizure of license plates.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5828

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the first day of

         4       November.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       567, by member of the Assembly Eve, Assembly

        13       Print 6780, an act to amend Chapter 198 of the

        14       Laws of 1978.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
5829

         1       574, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3674-A, an

         2       act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       575, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3731, an

         8       act to amend Chapter 915 of the Laws of 1982.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        11       bill aside.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       604, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 3937-A, an

        14       act to authorize the town of Paris to convey

        15       certain parklands.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        17       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
5830

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       625, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1023-A, an

         4       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

         5       to requiring hospitals.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect in 180 days.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        15       the negatives and announce the results.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36, nays 1,

        17       Senator Cook recorded in the negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       636, by Senator Larkin -

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  -- Senate Print

        24       2638, an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the







                                                             
5831

         1       bill aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       638, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an

         4       act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in

         5       relation to requiring.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section -- lay the

         8       bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       663, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4047, an

        11       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

        12       disposal of allegedly stolen motor vehicles.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the first day of

        17       November.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       710, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,







                                                             
5832

         1       Assembly Print 7640, an act to amend Chapter 514

         2       of the Laws of 1983.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       748, by member of the Assembly Weinstein,

        15       Assembly Print 7029, an act to amend the Family

        16       Court Act and others, in relation to powers of

        17       local Criminal Courts.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.







                                                             
5833

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       752 by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3870, an

         5       act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

         6       relation to solemnization of marriages.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       773, by member of the Assembly Gottfried,

        19       Assembly Print 7056-A, an act to amend the

        20       Public Health Law, in relation to the

        21       preparation and distribution.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.







                                                             
5834

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       784, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5081-A, an

         9       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        10       relation to establishing rates.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       789, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5161, an

        18       act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law,

        19       in relation to including.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
5835

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       864, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4589, an

         7       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         8       including police officers.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the first day of

        13       November.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       906, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5209-A, an

        22       act to amend the Tax Law and other laws,

        23       relating to the reduction of rates, enhancement

        24       of credits and other matters.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5836

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       907, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5213-A -

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       956, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 340-A, an

        17       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        18       relation to the enforcement.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                             
5837

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       958, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 411, an

         6       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         7       relation to restricting.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       969, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 951, an

        20       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        21       relation to providing.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect on the 120th day.







                                                             
5838

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 42.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       993, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4308-A, an

         9       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        10       relation to authorizing.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect in 30 days.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 42.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1017, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5051-A, an

        23       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        24       relation to penalties for violating use

        25       restrictions.







                                                             
5839

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the first day of

         5       January.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1018, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5134-A, an

        14       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        15       relation to the cancellation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
5840

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1045, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3649-B, an

         3       act to amend the Limited Liability Company Law

         4       and others, in relation to limited liability.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767-A, an

        10       act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in

        11       relation to the organization of professional

        12       service corporations.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1128, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5367-A,

        18       an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

        19       Law, in relation to requiring notice to the

        20       State Liquor Authority.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
5841

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1134, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1828-A, an

         8       act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

         9       increasing the number of County Court judges.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will call the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1154, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5254-C, an

        22       act to amend Chapter 987 of the laws of 1971.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read the last section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This







                                                             
5842

         1       act shall take effect on the 23rd day of

         2       November.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1159, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 317-A, an

        11       act to amend the Insurance Law.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1217, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4999-A,

        17       an act in relation to the extension of

        18       boundaries of fire protection.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        20       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
5843

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1323, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4240-A, an

         7       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         8       relation to the calculation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 43, nays 1,

        17       Senator Tully recorded in the negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1331, substituted earlier today, by member of

        22       the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Print 352-B, an

        23       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        24       making insurance coverage.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5844

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1333, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1704, an

        12       act in relation to allowing certain Correction

        13       members.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        15       a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number







                                                             
5845

         1       1334, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1914-A, an

         2       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

         3       provision of large quantities.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the first day of

         8       November.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1335, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 2430,

        17       concurrent resolution of the Senate and the

        18       Assembly, proposing amendments to Sections 13,

        19       14 and 16.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1338, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3190, an

        25       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security







                                                             
5846

         1       Law, in relation to providing.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         3       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         6       act shall take effect January 1.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1339, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3268, an

        15       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        16       Law, in relation to the retirement of ambulance

        17       medical technicians.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        19       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        22       act shall take effect January 1.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                             
5847

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1340, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3620, an

         6       act to authorize the city of Binghamton to offer

         7       an optional 20-year retirement plan.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         9       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1341, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4342, an

        21       act to amend Chapter 524 of the Laws of 1987,

        22       relating to establishing.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read the last section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This







                                                             
5848

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1342, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4583-A, an

        10       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        11       permitting a court to impose a sentence.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the first day of

        16       November.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1343, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4624, an

        25       act to enable the county of Schenectady to







                                                             
5849

         1       acquire, develop and distribute.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         3       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1344, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4808-A, an

        15       act to authorize Stuart L. Ain to apply for

        16       retroactive membership.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Paterson, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        24       is there a local fiscal impact message on this

        25       bill?







                                                             
5850

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Paterson, there's no local fiscal impact note at

         3       the desk.  There is a home rule message at the

         4       desk, if that makes a difference to you.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         6       we're not sure.  We're not really even

         7       challenging the Chair.  We would just like to

         8       know if there's a need for a fiscal impact

         9       message.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson, I'm being told by the Journal Clerk

        14       that the rules don't require one.  Without

        15       exhausting that investigation myself, I have to

        16       go basically on their word.  The standard

        17       practice has been, as I understand it, for a

        18       home rule message to be sufficient.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President, a point of order.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Dollinger, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just a point

        24       of order, Mr. President, to follow up on Senator

        25       Paterson's point.  My understanding is a portion







                                                             
5851

         1       of the cost of this will be borne by the New

         2       York State Assembly.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Dollinger, if you have a question about the

         5       bill, why don't we lay the bill aside and

         6       continue to go on with the non-controversial

         7       calendar.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll lay

        11       the bill aside.  The Secretary will continue to

        12       call the non-controversial calendar.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1345, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4846-A, an

        15       act to amend the Social Services Law and the

        16       Family Court Act, in relation to

        17       catastrophically maltreated children.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.







                                                             
5852

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1346, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4893, an

         5       act to authorize the city school district of the

         6       city of Hudson.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1347, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5107, an

        19       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        20       relation to increasing.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
5853

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1348, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5159-A, an

         8       act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

         9       others, in relation to clarifying the status of

        10       employees.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 11.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President

        22       -- Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Leichter, why do you rise?

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Is Calendar







                                                             
5854

         1       1333 still at the desk?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  1333?

         3       No, it is not.  It's out of the house, Senator.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  May I have

         5       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         6       on that bill, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

         9       Leichter will be recorded in the negative on

        10       Calendar Number 1333.

        11                      The Secretary will continue to

        12       read the non-controversial calendar.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        14       Number 1350, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print

        15       5458-A, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law,

        16       the Social Services Law and the Education Law,

        17       in relation to transferring requirements.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        21       act shall take effect July 1.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46.







                                                             
5855

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1351, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5461, an

         5       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         6       relation to authorizing a residential parking

         7       system.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         9       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1352, by Senator Dollinger, Senate Print 5479,

        21       an act to ament the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        22       relation to providing for a distinctive United

        23       States Naval Armed Guard license plate.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read the last section.







                                                             
5856

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the first day of

         3       November.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         9       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47, nays 1,

        11       Senator Cook recorded in the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1354, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5534,

        16       an act authorizing the assessor of the county of

        17       Nassau.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
5857

         1       Cook, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President, I

         3       inadvertently voted negative on the previous

         4       bill.  I'm voting no on this bill.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Marcellino's bill?

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  Yeah, and I

         8       intended to vote yes on the previous bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        13       the negatives and announce the results.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 46, nays 2,

        15       Senators Cook and Dollinger recorded in the

        16       negative.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Cook, your request is to have unanimous consent

        19       to be recorded in the affirmative on the prior

        20       bill, Senator Dollinger's bill, 1352?

        21                      SENATOR COOK:  Yes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Cook

        24       will be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar

        25       Number 1352.







                                                             
5858

         1                      The Secretary will continue to

         2       read the non-controversial calendar.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Skelos.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  There will be an

         7       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the

         8       Majority Conference Room.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

        10       meeting of the Rules Committee, immediate

        11       meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority

        12       Conference Room, Room 332.

        13                      The Secretary will continue to

        14       read the non-controversial calendar.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1355, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5537, an

        17       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,

        18       in relation to creating.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        21       bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1356, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5563, an

        24       act to authorize the Commissioner of General

        25       Services to sell and convey a certain parcel.







                                                             
5859

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1357, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5581, an

        13       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        14       relation to authorizing out of state

        15       recreational vehicle dealers.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
5860

         1                      Senator Saland, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President,

         3       have we completed the non-controversial?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have

         5       not.  We have not.  We just passed Calendar

         6       Number 1357.  We have one bill left to call.

         7                      The Secretary will read the

         8       non-controversial calendar remaining bill.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1358, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 5602,

        11       an act to authorize and direct the state Energy

        12       Planning Board to conduct a study.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      Senator Libous.

        24                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Now, Mr.

        25       President?







                                                             
5861

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Now.

         2                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      I would like to have unanimous

         5       consent to be recorded in the negative on

         6       Calendar Number 752.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Libous

         9       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        10       Number 752.

        11                      Senator Smith, why do you rise?

        12                      SENATOR SMITH:  On Calendar

        13       Number 636 and 638 that were laid aside earlier,

        14       I wish to let them go.  The explanation has been

        15       satisfactory.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        17       return to Calendar Number 636.  I'll ask the

        18       Secretary to read the title.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       636, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2638, an

        21       act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.







                                                             
5862

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      The Secretary will read Calendar

         8       Number 638.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       638, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an

        11       act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in

        12       relation to requiring any foreign corporation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48, nays 1,

        21       Senator Tully recorded in the negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      Senator Saland.

        25                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.







                                                             
5863

         1       President.

         2                      Mr. President, I would request

         3       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

         4       on Calendar 752.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         6       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Saland

         7       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         8       Number 752.

         9                      Senator Maltese, why do you

        10       rise?

        11                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        12       I would request unanimous consent to be recorded

        13       in the negative on Calendar Number 752.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maltese

        16       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        17       Number 752.

        18                      Senator Marcellino, why do you

        19       rise?

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        21       President, yesterday when Senate 2057 was taken

        22       up, I was out of the chambers on Senate

        23       business.  I wish the record to reflect that I

        24       would have voted no had I been here.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5864

         1       record will so reflect.

         2                      Senator Spano, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR SPANO:  Mr. President, I

         4       would like the record to reflect my negative

         5       vote on Calendar 752.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Spano

         8       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         9       Number 752.

        10                      Senator Lack, why do you rise?

        11                      SENATOR LACK:  Yes.  I would

        12       request unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        13       negative on Calendar Number 752.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Lack

        16       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        17       Number 752.

        18                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I would also

        22       like to be recorded in the negative on 752.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        24       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Holland

        25       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar







                                                             
5865

         1       Number 752.

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         4       can we return to motions and resolutions and

         5       call up my privileged Resolution Number 1566 and

         6       have it read in its entirety, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         8       return to the order of motions and resolutions.

         9                      I'll direct the Secretary to read

        10       Resolution Number 1566 by Senator Holland in its

        11       entirety which was previously adopted by this

        12       body.

        13                      The Secretary will read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        15       Holland, Legislative Resolution 1566, honoring

        16       the teams from Clarkstown North High School in

        17       Rockland County upon the occasion of placing

        18       First, Second and Third in the National History

        19       Day Contest, May 2 through 4, 1997;

        20                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of this

        21       legislative body to act in accord with its long

        22       standing tradition honoring the youth of today

        23       and leaders of tomorrow whose character and

        24       achievements best exemplify the ideals and

        25       values cherished by this great state and nation;







                                                             
5866

         1       and

         2                      WHEREAS, this legislative body is

         3       justly proud to honor the teams from Clarkstown

         4       North High School in Rockland County upon the

         5       occasion of placing First, Second and Third in

         6       the National History Day Contest in Rochester,

         7       New York, May 2 through 4, 1997; and

         8                      WHEREAS, the National History Day

         9       Contest bring schools from all over New York

        10       State to compete in a variety of group and

        11       individual categories.

        12                      The Clarkstown team made up of

        13       Matt Lipsky, Stacey Rabinowitz, Steven Chao,

        14       Mark Cuccaro, and Steven Weintraub as the

        15       alternate, won first place in the History Bowl

        16       officially named "Yonkers History Bowl" modeled

        17       after Jeopardy and College Bowl, which tests

        18       students' knowledge of American history in the

        19       quick response format.  14 schools sent teams to

        20       compete and Clarkstown North also came in second

        21       with a team consisting of Zack Osofsky, John

        22       Sherman, John Spencer and Jay Suchotliff, as the

        23       alternate was Kevin McCabe;

        24                      WHEREAS, in group performance, a

        25       Clarkstown North team made up of Matt Lipsky,







                                                             
5867

         1       Zack Osofsky, John Sherman and Steven Weintraub

         2       came in third in the state.  Their dramatic

         3       performance was about the triumphs and tragedies

         4       of the building of the transcontinental railroad

         5       in the late 1800s.  The same team of boys also

         6       placed third last year in the same category; and

         7                      WHEREAS, this legislative body,

         8       in full knowledge of the significance of this

         9       occasion, is moved to honor, commend and

        10       congratulate these young citizens and able

        11       scholars recognizing the value of their labors

        12       and the promise of their futures; now,

        13       therefore, be it

        14                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        15       body because in its deliberations to honor the

        16       teams from Clarkstown North High School in

        17       Rockland County upon the occasion of placing

        18       First, Second and Third in the National History

        19       Day Contest May 2 through 4, 1997; and be it

        20       further

        21                      RESOLVED, that copies of this

        22       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        23       to members of the Clarkstown North High School

        24       First, Second and Third Place Teams.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
5868

         1       Holland, on the resolution.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         3       could I ask the members of the Clarkstown North

         4       to stand up, please.  They're in the gallery up

         5       here on the right.  Would you stand up, please.

         6                      Now, I want to read a section of

         7       the resolution in case everybody wasn't

         8       listening.

         9                      "WHEREAS, this legislative body

        10       is justly proud to honor the teams from

        11       Clarkstown North High School", which is in

        12       Rockland county, "upon the occasion of placing

        13       First, Second and Third in the National History

        14       Day Contest for the entire state of New York in

        15       Rochester, New York on May the 2nd through the

        16       4th."

        17                      Gentlemen, congratulations to

        18       you.  We expect you to do the same -- and

        19       ladies.  I'm sorry, Stacey.  We expect you to do

        20       the same thing next year.  Congratulations.

        21       We're all very proud of you.  (Applause)

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Holland.

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

        25       President.  If we could go to the Resolution







                                                             
5869

         1       Calendar.  I've had some requests if we could

         2       open up 1821, "Drug Abuse Prevention Week", for

         3       anybody who would like to be on that resolution

         4       or the entire house if so wished and also 1882,

         5       YM... "YWCA Week"  I move the adoption.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         7       follow the procedure, Senator Holland, and place

         8       all of the members on the sponsorship on the two

         9       resolutions, 1821 and 1882, unless they indicate

        10       to the desk that they don't wish to be on the

        11       resolution.

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.  I move the adoption -

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I'll

        15       direct the Secretary to do that.  You're

        16       proposing to adopt the Resolution Calendar at

        17       this time?

        18                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar which

        21       is on the members' desks.  All those in favor

        22       signify by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)

        24                      Opposed, nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
5870

         1                      The Resolution Calendar is

         2       adopted.

         3                      Senator Holland.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Could we return

         5       to the reports of standing committees for a

         6       report from the Finance Committee, please, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         9       return to the order of reports of standing

        10       committees.  I'll ask the Secretary to read the

        11       report of the Finance Committee.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        13       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        14       following nomination:  Commissioner of

        15       Environmental Conservation:  John P. Cahill, of

        16       Yonkers.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        18       recognizes Senator Stafford, on the nomination.

        19                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        20       today three excellent nominees appeared.  The

        21       first excellent nominee, I will yield to the

        22       Senator from Westchester.

        23                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you,

        24       Senator Stafford.

        25                      It is indeed my pleasure to







                                                             
5871

         1       second the nomination of John Cahill as the

         2       Commissioner of the Department of Environmental

         3       Conservation.

         4                      I have known John Cahill for a

         5       long time and he has been a person who has

         6       contributed a great deal to his community and

         7       certainly to us in the city of Yonkers, as a

         8       matter of fact, volunteering his services to our

         9       city as a member of the Emergency Financial

        10       Control Board which was an appointment that

        11       required confirmation by the members of this

        12       Senate.

        13                      In a short time, he has

        14       demonstrated his commitment to his community,

        15       demonstrated his commitment to protecting the

        16       environmental concerns of the people of this

        17       great state and in following through on a

        18       commitment our great Governor has made to the

        19       people of this state in putting someone in place

        20       in the Department of Environmental Conservation

        21       who understands how to run an agency in an

        22       efficient way, in a way that properly requests

        23       the concerns, the environmental concerns of this

        24       administration, of the members of this house as

        25       well.







                                                             
5872

         1                      So it is my pleasure, Mr.

         2       President, to second the nomination and to

         3       congratulate the Governor in presenting someone

         4       who had tremendous credentials, as an attorney,

         5       as a litigator, as someone in his own education

         6       who has studied environmental law and who has

         7       already demonstrated that commitment as the

         8       Acting Commissioner in the Department of

         9       Environmental Conservation.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Marcellino, on the nomination.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                      I rise with great pride and

        15       pleasure to speak on the nomination fervently of

        16       John Cahill to be confirmed as Commissioner of

        17       the Department of Environmental Conservation.

        18                      As the Chairman of the Committee,

        19       John went through our process.  It was almost a

        20       love feast.  The accolades, good things were

        21       said and well deserved.  John has done a

        22       fantastic job in a department that was under

        23       some stress before he got there and since he's

        24       gotten there has been running just beautifully.

        25       He's a pleasure to work with.  He's a fine human







                                                             
5873

         1       being, a great lawyer and a superb environment

         2       alist and I, with pleasure, recommend a

         3       unanimous vote on John's nomination.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leibell, on the nomination.

         6                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      Briefly, if I may join my

         9       colleagues who have already spoken.  As a member

        10       of the Environmental Conservation Committee, we

        11       were most pleased to see the commissioner come

        12       before us.  I can tell you from my own personal

        13       experience and that of our staff in the Senate,

        14       he has been wonderful as a department to work

        15       with.  They've done a tremendous job in a very

        16       short period of time.  Without question, this

        17       will be one of the finest environmental

        18       departments anywhere in the United States, and I

        19       congratulate the commissioner.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Oppenheimer, on the nomination.

        22                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                      Well, it was a love feast in the

        25       Environmental Conservation Committee meeting







                                                             
5874

         1       when we had John Cahill before us and that's

         2       because John, in the period that he's been

         3       acting commissioner, has done so much to improve

         4       the enforcement of our environmental laws.

         5                      There was a period there where I

         6       thought that an effort was afoot to get rid of

         7       environmental law and after that I thought,

         8       well, the opposite -- the alternative to getting

         9       rid of it seemed to be simply not to enforce the

        10       law that we did have and that was a direction

        11       that was very disturbing and I thought the

        12       Department was moving in but now many enforcers

        13       have been put on staff and we are seeing a vast

        14       improvement in the enforcement of our law.

        15                      John Cahill comes from a

        16       wonderful background.  Not only has he proven

        17       himself on the job but his background couldn't

        18       be better.  He comes out of the school where he

        19       took a Master's in environmental law that I have

        20       the highest respect for and that's the Pace

        21       University School of Environmental Law which was

        22       started by Congressman Richard Ottinger and is

        23       one of the greatly respected environmental

        24       schools in the country.

        25                      So we have talked about things







                                                             
5875

         1       such as the Superfund, such as the emission

         2       reduction credits.  Everything seems to be

         3       pulling together now under John and I am just

         4       very, very pleased that we have such a fine

         5       commission... commissioner candidate before us

         6       today.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Libous, on the nomination.

         9                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      I too want to rise and join my

        12       colleagues in saluting the Governor in making

        13       this very fine appointment in John Cahill, and I

        14       think what's nice about this appointment is Mr.

        15       Cahill brings a unique balance.  You know, in

        16       the environmental field, while we all care very

        17       deeply about our state's environment and make

        18       sure that we're moving in the right direction,

        19       we also do care very deeply about economic

        20       development and growth in our state and making

        21       sure that we strike a balance, and I think John

        22       Cahill does strike that balance.  Not only is he

        23       well respected by those who favor and work very

        24       hard on environmental issues but he's also

        25       respected in the business community.







                                                             
5876

         1                      So, Mr. President, I look forward

         2       to working with the new commissioner and I know

         3       that Yonkers for some is considered upstate but,

         4       Commissioner, hopefully we'll bring you to

         5       Binghamton, the Southern Tier and show you where

         6       the real upstate is.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Mendez, on the nomination.

         9                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        10       also feel the need to stand up and congratulate

        11       the Governor for the appointment of John Cahill

        12       as the environmental commissioner.

        13                      I mean, the man is -- has done -

        14       will be doing an extraordinary job and as far as

        15       I'm concerned, this is the first candidate for

        16       this position that is thoroughly knowledgeable

        17       about the issue of environmental racism.  He

        18       knows what occurred in the South Bronx when an

        19       incinerator that burns medical waste was placed

        20       in an area congested with people, many of these

        21       people suffering from asthma, and he's willing

        22       to revisit the issue.

        23                      So I think he is one of the

        24       finest appointments that the Governor has

        25       submitted for confirmation and we look forward







                                                             
5877

         1       to work with him.

         2                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Maziarz, on the nomination.

         5                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you very

         6       much, Mr. President.

         7                      Despite what we've heard today,

         8       the real upstate regions of New York are the

         9       Niagara region and the Adirondack region and

        10       Senator Stafford agrees with me on that

        11       particular comment.

        12                      Mr. President, the Niagara region

        13       is very proud to have two members on the

        14       Conservation Fund Advisory Board and those two

        15       members have indicated to me that when it comes

        16       to sportsmen's issues and the concern about the

        17       hunters and the sports people in the state of

        18       New York, that Commissioner Cahill is extremely

        19       impressive with his record with those

        20       individuals and I just want to congratulate and

        21       commend the Governor.

        22                      I think that Commissioner Cahill

        23       is going to be an excellent commissioner, and I

        24       look forward to working with him for a good long

        25       time.







                                                             
5878

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Johnson, on the nomination.

         3                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

         4       I would like to echo some of the fine sentiments

         5       which have been expressed so far on behalf of

         6       John Cahill as Commissioner.  I think there's no

         7       question about his capability, his background

         8       but I'm most impressed with his performance

         9       while he's been Acting Commissioner.

        10                      He seems to have achieved a like

        11       balance of environmental sensitivity, economic

        12       alertness, awareness of the necessity of

        13       maintaining jobs and expanding opportunities in

        14       our state, and I think everyone is -- on all

        15       sides of the spectrum, environmental/economic

        16       activities, I think he has won friends and I

        17       think those friends are here today speaking for

        18       him and supporting him and wishing him well in

        19       knowing that the Governor has made a fine choice

        20       and he'll do a wonderful for the state of New

        21       York.

        22                      Thank you.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Hoffmann, on the nomination.

        25                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I join my







                                                             
5879

         1       colleagues, Mr. President, in complimenting the

         2       Governor on the very excellent appointment of

         3       John Cahill as Commissioner of Department of

         4       Environmental Conservation.

         5                      I've had an opportunity to speak

         6       with Mr. Cahill on a number of times.  I'm

         7       impressed with his breadth of knowledge of

         8       environmental issues as well as his grasp of the

         9       great difficulty posed by trying to balance

        10       environmentalism in its strictest sense with

        11       agricultural practices and enforcement of

        12       penalties against those who would pollute the

        13       land.  These are not always clear-cut issues.

        14       They require a great deal of sensitivity, even

        15       handling and a willingness to seek out all of

        16       the facts.

        17                      That, unfortunately, has not

        18       always been the case in DEC in New York State,

        19       and I am convinced that we have in Commissioner

        20       Cahill somebody who will be fair, who will take

        21       the time to learn what the real issues are and

        22       as somebody who has been involved in agriculture

        23       herself and has served as the ranking member of

        24       my party on the Agriculture Committee for seven

        25       terms now, I believe that we have in John Cahill







                                                             
5880

         1       an excellent person.  For those who are engaged

         2       in agricultural practices in New York State,

         3       it's time that they had a friend and somebody

         4       who will be fair to farmers in this department.

         5                      So I join my friends in the

         6       Senate on both sides of the aisle in

         7       complimenting the Governor on this very

         8       excellent appointment and wishing John Cahill

         9       all the best in his new and very difficult

        10       position.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Wright, on the nomination.

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      I too join with my colleagues in

        16       supporting John Cahill's nomination.  I found it

        17       interesting the various definitions I've heard

        18       today of upstate New York.

        19                      Having served on the EnCon

        20       Committee, I had the opportunity to question the

        21       acting commissioner and representing an area of

        22       the state that is interested in sport fishing

        23       and hunting and agricultural interests, I found

        24       that the commissioner was not only conversant

        25       but very supportive on all of those issues and







                                                             
5881

         1       that speaks to, I think, what we've all attested

         2       to this afternoon and that is the balance that

         3       the commissioner brings to that position and

         4       while all of us have various priorities within

         5       the influence of the Environmental Conservation

         6       Department, the commissioner balances those

         7       priorities, balances the regions of this state,

         8       balances the concerns.

         9                      John, we're very pleased to have

        10       you as commissioner.  We wish you the best of

        11       luck.

        12                      Thank you.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        14       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        15       nomination?

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      Hearing none, the question is on

        18       the nomination of John P. Cahill to become the

        19       Commissioner of Environmental Conservation.  All

        20       those in favor of the nomination signify by

        21       saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye".)

        23                      Opposed, nay.

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      The nominee is unanimously







                                                             
5882

         1       confirmed.

         2                      We're very, very pleased to have

         3       John Cahill in the gallery to your left with us

         4       today.  Commissioner, congratulations.  Good

         5       luck.  (Applause)

         6                      Commissioner, we are also very

         7       pleased that you were able to fill the gallery

         8       for us, and I know that you have a large number

         9       of your family here with you.  We would like to

        10       have the members see them also.

        11                      I know you're joined by your wife

        12       Kim, if she would stand, your four children.  We

        13       have John, Jr., Meghan, Erin and James and your

        14       mother Margaret, your three brothers, James,

        15       Kevin and Tom are with us today, your two

        16       sisters, Mary and Eileen, your brother-in-law

        17       Bruce Hume, your sister-in-law Ann Cahill and

        18       your in-laws Beverly and Leo Magratten.

        19                      Thank you for all coming and

        20       sharing this wonderful moment in John's life

        21       with us.  Thank you.

        22                      The Secretary will continue to

        23       read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        25       from the Committee on Finance, reports the







                                                             
5883

         1       following nomination:  Commissioner of Social

         2       Services:  Brian J. Wing, of Rensselaer.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Stafford.

         5                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I know I sound like a broken

         8       record and I should because, again today, as I

         9       mentioned earlier, I just want to second what's

        10       been said about now Commissioner Cahill.  Is he

        11       Commissioner before he's sworn in?  No.  I guess

        12       you're Commissioner now -- Commissioner now.

        13                      Brian Wing who's being considered

        14       again is an example of the system really

        15       working.  We all go way back.  Commissioner Wing

        16       -- and I call him Commissioner because he is a

        17       commissioner -- he has his Bachelor of Arts, cum

        18       laude from Buffalo, an Associate in Arts, which

        19       I think is tremendous, from Fulton-Montgomery

        20       Community College and then his Master's in

        21       Public Administration from the State University

        22       of New York.

        23                      Now, I for one can remember -- I

        24       don't think it's coincidental -- that he

        25       graduated from Buffalo and the office of the







                                                             
5884

         1       commission studying the welfare laws was in

         2       Buffalo.  As a matter of fact, his former boss

         3       was in town last evening and had breakfast with

         4       him today, Senator Smith and, Mr. President,

         5       Brian Wing was out of school, cum laude graduate

         6       and he was on the ground floor of making changes

         7       in revising and reforming some laws that needed

         8       to be reformed and, as I say often on this

         9       subject, we all have our personal experiences

        10       and I can say that I should relate to this issue

        11       and I do my best to from my own experiences.

        12                      I will share with you, Mr.

        13       President, that Commissioner Wing is a

        14       professional.  He was before the Finance

        15       Committee today and he did an excellent job.  He

        16       didn't necessarily, I think, tell everybody

        17       exactly what they wanted to hear.  On the other

        18       hand, he was very open.  He shared with them his

        19       professional views and I don't think there was

        20       anyone who really -- and I don't want to speak

        21       for anyone, but I don't think there was anyone

        22       that took umbrage, although probably on every

        23       specific issue we were not in all complete

        24       agreement but it was a good meeting, a good

        25       dialogue, and I compliment the Governor on this







                                                             
5885

         1       appointment.

         2                      I think this should be mentioned

         3       for the record, the work that the commissioner

         4       has done through the years.  I mentioned earlier

         5       in '74-'75, he was senior research analyst on

         6       the Commission to Revise the Social Services

         7       Law.

         8                      '75 to '79, he was director of

         9       research on this Commission to Revise the Social

        10       Services Laws.

        11                      From '79 to '82, he was executive

        12       director of the New York Public Welfare

        13       Association, and again, he was questioned about

        14       the entire state and he made it a point that he

        15       realizes this is a diverse state, a complex

        16       state and there are various interests in areas,

        17       and I could go on and on.

        18                      He was a regional administrator

        19       in the Department from 1982 to 1983.

        20                      From 1983 to '93, he was

        21       director/local district liaison in the Office of

        22       the Commissioner.

        23                      From 1993 to 1995, he was

        24       executive assistant to the executive deputy

        25       commissioner in the Office of the Commissioner







                                                             
5886

         1       and from April 1995 to the present has been the

         2       acting commissioner.

         3                      Again, Mr. President, here's an

         4       example of a professional who does a job, a

         5       difficult job but he cares.  He's concerned.  He

         6       has the ability.  He has a proven record and on

         7       behalf of Senator Bruno -- and he is -- the

         8       commissioner is very fortunate to live in the

         9       correct districts in this house, in the county

        10       of Rensselaer, and for those who are wondering

        11       what I'm saying, he lives in Senator Bruno's

        12       district and Senator Bruno could more eloquently

        13       state what I'm trying to state here today but,

        14       on behalf of Senator Bruno, I move the

        15       confirmation of a gentleman who has proven

        16       himself and will continue to make New York State

        17       a better place in which to live.

        18                      Thank you.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Holland, on the nomination.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I would like to

        22       also speak about Brian because I've worked with

        23       him for a long time and some of the things I'll

        24       repeat, Brian, but you don't care.  It's PR.

        25                      I'm happy to support the







                                                             
5887

         1       nomination of Brian J. Wing as Commissioner of

         2       the state Department of Social Services.  My

         3       staff and I have had the privilege of working

         4       with Brian since I became chairman of this

         5       committee in 1991.

         6                      We were pleased when Brian Wing

         7       was named Acting Commissioner on April the 21st,

         8       1995 and doubly pleased when the Governor

         9       nominated Brian to serve as the official Social

        10       Services Commissioner, although we had called

        11       him that for years, earlier this month.

        12                      Brian Wing has demonstrated that

        13       he has the experience, wisdom and skill to be a

        14       great Social Services Commissioner.

        15                      For those of you who have not had

        16       the privilege as I have to get to know Brian

        17       Wing, let me tell you a little bit about him.

        18       Brian is a lifer, an insider, someone who has

        19       committed his career and most of his adult life

        20       to improving the social services programs here

        21       in the state of New York.

        22                      Prior to his designation as

        23       Acting Commissioner, Brian worked at the

        24       Department of Social Services in various

        25       capacities since 1982.  He served for ten years







                                                             
5888

         1       as the Department's local liaison director,

         2       maintaining essential relationships between DSS,

         3       state and local social services agencies.

         4                      Before becoming -- before coming

         5       to DSS, Brian was executive director of the New

         6       York Public Welfare Association.  He began his

         7       public service career in 1994 as executive

         8       administrator in the Assembly and later served

         9       in several capacities on the Senate's Commission

        10       to Revise the Social Services Law.

        11                      Brian earned his Master's in

        12       public administration degree from SUNY in Albany

        13       and received a Bachelor of Arts degree cum laude

        14       from SUNY at Buffalo.

        15                      As Acting Social Services

        16       Commissioner, Brian Wing has presided over the

        17       state's welfare reform efforts with a hands-on

        18       commitment to implementing the most sweeping

        19       overhaul of the social services system ever in

        20       New York State's history without compromising

        21       the state's tradition of providing comparative

        22       services to those in need.

        23                      During Brian's tenure as Acting

        24       Commissioner, the welfare case load has dropped

        25       to its lowest level since 1969.  More than







                                                             
5889

         1       340,000 have been removed from New York City's

         2       welfare rolls.  Child support collections are

         3       coming in at record levels, increasing 13

         4       percent in 1996 and bringing in an additional

         5       $83 million helping families to leave the

         6       welfare rolls behind and finger imaging and

         7       other anti-fraud measures are restoring

         8       integrity to public assistance.

         9                      Finger imaging alone has been

        10       responsible for removing 43,000 welfare cheats

        11       from the system.  The dramatic improvement of

        12       child support statistics is the result of new

        13       innovative programs successfully implemented by

        14       the Department of Social Services during Brian's

        15       tenure.  They include suspension of driving

        16       privileges for dead-beat parents, employment

        17       tracking for those who owe child support

        18       payments, bank account seizures and creation of

        19       partnerships with tax departments to increase

        20       support payments.

        21                      As a result of Brian's tenacity

        22       in improving child support enforcement, more

        23       than 26,000 AFDC families have been able to

        24       leave the welfare rolls.  No one who I have

        25       worked with during my tenure as Social Service







                                                             
5890

         1       Chairman is more qualified for the position of

         2       Social Services Commissioner than Brian Wing.

         3                      His long-time dedication and hard

         4       work in building a social service administration

         5       we can be justly proud of says it all.

         6                      I know you will all join in

         7       supporting Brian Wing's nomination for the

         8       position of Chairman of the New York State

         9       Department of Social Services, and I

        10       congratulate you, sir.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Libous, on the nomination.

        13                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Thank you, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      I too want to rise to join my

        16       colleagues, Senator Stafford and Senator

        17       Holland, as they talked about the qualifications

        18       of Brian Wing.

        19                      I just want to say that from a

        20       different perspective, not being either Finance

        21       Chairman or the Chairman of Social Services, I

        22       have had the pleasure of working with Brian on a

        23       couple of issues and I want to say this to my

        24       colleagues.  He has been -- not only is he very

        25       knowledgeable and he understands the entire area







                                                             
5891

         1       of social services, but he has been extremely

         2       responsive to me and my constituents, and I

         3       think that he would treat anyone in this room in

         4       that same manner and that's really what's

         5       critical in our positions when sensitive issues,

         6       changes that are taking place like in the area

         7       of social services and there are ongoing changes

         8       and they affect the lives of all of our

         9       constituents in this state.

        10                      I have to say that whenever I've

        11       called on Brian Wing as Acting Commissioner and

        12       soon to be Commissioner, he has always been

        13       responsive, and I want to again applaud the

        14       Governor.  We have several excellent nominees

        15       before us today and I know that Mr. Wing will

        16       carry out his responsibilities and be an

        17       excellent commissioner, and I look forward to

        18       continuing our working relationship.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Mendez, on the nomination.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:  Mr. President, I

        22       also want to rise to support the nomination of

        23       Brian Wing for Commissioner of Social Services

        24       of the state of New York.

        25                      I have never seen -- in so many







                                                             
5892

         1       years that I have served here, I have never

         2       heard of a commissioner who is so thoroughly

         3       knowledgeable of the entire system -- welfare

         4       system of the state of New York.  He's a true

         5       professional and mostly he's the kind of a guy,

         6       as Senator Libous mentioned, that if you have a

         7       problem and you call, he is there and he is very

         8       rational and sensitive about the needs that our

         9       constituents do have.  From the early stages of

        10       planning through implementation and policy

        11       making in the area of social welfare, he is the

        12       finest.

        13                      So, Mr. President, this is indeed

        14       a wonderful day.  He's done a great job as a

        15       commissioner -- as Acting Commissioner in the

        16       past two years.  So it's a very -- it's very

        17       gratifying to move his nomination.

        18                      Mr. Chairman, since I have the

        19       floor, I really must also for the record mention

        20       the following:  I was out of the chambers when a

        21       resolution was read for -- memorializing Matthew

        22       Lipsky for his -- and his class for his

        23       performance in the contest, the national and

        24       state level, and I want to mention for the

        25       record that I am so sorry that I wasn't here







                                                             
5893

         1       because Matthew's mother Dorothy, as well as his

         2       father Richard, they are personal friends of

         3       mine and I want to join my colleagues in also

         4       telling Matthew that we are all very proud of

         5       him.

         6                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

         8       you, Senator.

         9                      Senator Farley, on the

        10       nomination.

        11                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes.  Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                      I rise to second and support the

        14       nomination of Brian Wing.  As Senator Stafford

        15       said, it's so interesting that so many people

        16       are moving to Rensselaer County but where

        17       somebody came from is terribly important also,

        18       and I know that he's got a lot of roots in

        19       Amsterdam, New York, as does your wife, I

        20       understand too and Amsterdam, New York is in my

        21       district and a lot of great people have come

        22       from there and Brian Wing is certainly among

        23       them.

        24                      I think the important thing is I

        25       want to congratulate the Governor on choosing







                                                             
5894

         1       somebody for this very, very difficult job, one

         2       that has always been one of the most difficult

         3       commissionerships in the government but one that

         4       you have served so well and you have earned your

         5       stripes as a commissioner.  You've earned your

         6       stripes as a great public servant.  We're

         7       grateful for that, and I commend the Governor on

         8       this appointment.

         9                      Brian, I wish you well.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        11       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        12       nomination?

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Wright, on the nomination.  Senator Wright.

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      I join my colleagues in

        20       supporting the nomination of Brian Wing.  Brian

        21       and I go back in terms of our prior lives in

        22       local government and Brian spent a great deal of

        23       time working with the counties of this state and

        24       working through the Association of Counties and

        25       the Public Welfare Association, as well as his







                                                             
5895

         1       responsibilities with the agency itself, and I

         2       think particularly as we move ahead with

         3       continuing changes within the field of social

         4       services, it's important that we have someone at

         5       the helm that is conscious of the role that

         6       county governments play and the partnership that

         7       county governments play as we develop the

         8       appropriate social service responses to the

         9       needs of our state and we maintain the integrity

        10       of that partnership between state and local

        11       government.

        12                      Brian is somebody who knows the

        13       role of county governments, knows what they're

        14       capable of doing, knows that the state needs to

        15       maintain its full partnership in working with

        16       him.

        17                      So we're very pleased to see the

        18       Governor nominate someone who has that back

        19       ground and that experience, that knowledge to

        20       blend with the knowledge that he has acquired

        21       within the agency.

        22                      So I too join my colleagues,

        23       extend my best wishes and congratulations to

        24       Brian and look forward to completing the

        25       confirmation today.







                                                             
5896

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Gold, on the nomination.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, Mr.

         4       President.  Thank you.

         5                      Mr. President, I just wanted to

         6       make the point that the Finance Committee

         7       probably spent more time on this nominee than it

         8       has on any nominee I can remember for a long

         9       period of time.

        10                      The time that was spent was not

        11       an indication that anything was troublesome or

        12       worrisome about this nominee but just that the

        13       Minority was -- is concerned about the issues

        14       involved with this department, particularly

        15       issues that are raised by a rather awkward and

        16       backward budget offered by the Governor and

        17       where we're going to go from here.

        18                      His answers, I thought were

        19       excellent and in a time when there is so much

        20       turmoil as to, number one, how to control costs

        21       to the state and, on the other hand, how to

        22       provide properly for people who are in need, we

        23       need people with experience and with innovative

        24       ideas, and I want to thank the nominee for his

        25       patience at the Committee and I want to say that







                                                             
5897

         1       from my point of view, the Democratic members of

         2       that committee did themselves proud this morning

         3       in the way they handled the whole nomination.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         5       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         6       nomination?

         7                      Senator Gonzalez.

         8                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      I too rise and second the

        11       nomination for Brian Wing, Commissioner Wing.  I

        12       think that as part of the dialogue that took

        13       place -- but I'm always in dialogue with him and

        14       he has always been there working hard.  He's a

        15       great public servant, and I congratulate the

        16       Governor on his nomination and I wish him well.

        17                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

        19       Senator wishing to speak on the nomination?

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Hearing none, the question is on

        22       the nomination of Brian J. Wing, of Rensselaer,

        23       to become the Commissioner for the Department of

        24       Social Services.  All those in favor of the

        25       nomination signify by saying aye.







                                                             
5898

         1                      (Response of "Aye".)

         2                      Opposed, nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The nominee is unanimously

         5       confirmed.

         6                      We're very, very pleased to have

         7       Brian Wing in the gallery to your left with us

         8       today.

         9                      Commissioner, congratulations.

        10       Good luck.  (Applause)

        11                      Brian is also joined by several

        12       members of his family.  His wife Katie is with

        13       him, his mother Jacqueline and his daughter

        14       Renee.  Thank you, Commissioner.

        15                      The Secretary will continue to

        16       read the report of the Finance Committee.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        18       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        19       following nomination:  Member of the state Board

        20       of Parole:  Lawrence P. Ibsen, of Bronxville.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        22       recognizes Senator Stafford.

        23                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        24       again, the third very fine, excellent nominee to

        25       appear today and he was very patient.  He had







                                                             
5899

         1       appeared a year ago and did an excellent job

         2       when he came before us and gave us an

         3       opportunity again to discuss the issues with him

         4       and Commissioner Ibsen is very, very capably

         5       represented by again the Senator from

         6       Westchester.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Spano.

         9                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you,

        10       Senator Stafford.

        11                      It was just a year ago I had an

        12       opportunity to get up and speak about the

        13       credentials of Larry Ibsen and his background of

        14       over two decades in corrections and in parole

        15       that have really been proven out with the

        16       recognition of Brian Travis as Director of

        17       Parole, when he very quickly elevated

        18       Commissioner Ibsen to a position of

        19       responsibility within the Division of Parole.

        20                      So it is my pleasure to stand

        21       today to second the nomination and urge the

        22       unanimous nomination of Mr. Larry Ibsen to the

        23       Division of Parole.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        25       any other Senator wishing to speak on the







                                                             
5900

         1       nomination?

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      Hearing none, the question is on

         4       the nomination of Lawrence P. Ibsen, of

         5       Bronxville, to become a member of the state

         6       Board of Parole.  All those in favor signify by

         7       saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye".)

         9                      Opposed, nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nominee is confirmed.

        12                      We're also very pleased to have

        13       Larry Ibsen with us today.  Congratulations on

        14       your nomination.  Good luck.  (Applause)

        15                      The Secretary will continue to

        16       read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        18       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        19       following nomination:  Member of the Small

        20       Business Advisory Board:  Clarence A. Price, of

        21       Harpursville.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       question is on the nomination of Clarence A.

        24       Price of Harpursville to become a member of the

        25       Small Business Advisory Board.  All those in







                                                             
5901

         1       favor signify by saying aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye".)

         3                      Opposed, nay.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      The nominee is confirmed.

         6                      The Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         8       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         9       following nomination:  Banking member of the

        10       State Banking Board:  George J. Vojta, of

        11       Bronxville.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       question is on the nomination of George J.

        14       Vojta, of Bronxville, to become a member of the

        15       Banking -- excuse me -- a Banking member of the

        16       State Banking Board.  All those in favor of the

        17       nomination signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye".)

        19                      Opposed, nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      The nominee is confirmed.

        22                      The Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        24       from the Committee on Finance, report the

        25       following nomination:  Member of the Board of







                                                             
5902

         1       Trustees of the State University of New York

         2       College of Environmental Science and Forestry:

         3       Thomas Burkly, of Cazenovia.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       question is on the nomination of Thomas Burkly,

         6       of Cazenovia, to become a member of the Board of

         7       Trustees of the State University of New York

         8       College of Environmental Science and Forestry.

         9       All those in favor of the nomination signify by

        10       saying aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye".)

        12                      Opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The nominee is confirmed.

        15                      The Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        17       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        18       following nomination:  Member of the Battery

        19       Park City Authority:  James F. Gill, Esq., of

        20       Rockville Centre.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       question is on the nomination of James Gill, of

        23       Rockville Centre, to become a member of the

        24       Battery Park City Authority.  All those in favor

        25       signify by saying aye.







                                                             
5903

         1                      (Response of "Aye".)

         2                      Opposed, nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The nominee is confirmed.

         5                      The Secretary will read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         7       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         8       following nomination:  Member of the

         9       Metropolitan Transportation Authority:  James S.

        10       Simpson, of Staten Island.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        12       recognizes Senator Lachman.

        13                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  Yes.  On the

        14       appointment, Mr. President, of Mr. Simpson as a

        15       member -- reappointment to the membership of the

        16       -- on the Metropolitan Transportation

        17       Authority, I must admit that when I came to

        18       Albany yesterday morning, I wasn't quite sure

        19       how to vote on this appointment and the reason

        20       is that the Metropolitan Transportation

        21       Authority voted for an increase in fares for the

        22       subways and trains of New York City, which I

        23       think, even though it has led to an increase in

        24       ridership, has not led to an improvement in

        25       service, especially on the elevated lines in my







                                                             
5904

         1       district and the "B" Train service in New York

         2       City, there are fewer cars and there are -

         3       there's a longer time period between trains

         4       throughout the city of New York, and I would

         5       like to have the opportunity of speaking to the

         6       commissioner in the near future about service on

         7       the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

         8                      However, I am going to support

         9       the nomination of Mr. Simpson.  In keeping with

        10       the admonition of Ralph Waldo Emerson that

        11       foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small

        12       minds, I'm going to support his reappointment

        13       for two major reasons.

        14                      One, it has been brought to my

        15       attention that he has had a distinguished record

        16       as a member of the MTA since his appointment and

        17       that is very important to me and equally

        18       important to me, especially today, is that he

        19       has had the unqualified support of one of the

        20       most distinguished members of this chamber, the

        21       Chairman of the Transportation Committee,

        22       Senator Norman Levy, and for those two reasons,

        23       I am proud to add my vote to the reappointment

        24       of Mr. Simpson to membership on the Metropolitan

        25       Transportation Authority.







                                                             
5905

         1                      Thank you.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         3       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

         4       nomination?

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      Hearing none, the question is on

         7       the nomination of James S. Simpson of Staten

         8       Island to become a member of the Metropolitan

         9       Transportation Authority.  All those in favor of

        10       the nomination signify by saying aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye".)

        12                      Opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The nominee is confirmed.

        15                      The Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        17       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        18       following nomination:  Member of the New York

        19       State Bridge Authority:  Roderick O. Dressel, of

        20       New Paltz.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       question is on the nomination of Roderick O.

        23       Dressel, of New Paltz, to become a member of the

        24       New York State Bridge Authority.  All those in

        25       favor of the nomination signify by saying aye.







                                                             
5906

         1                      (Response of "Aye".)

         2                      Opposed, nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The nominee is confirmed.

         5                      The Secretary will continue to

         6       read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         8       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         9       following nomination:  Member of the Allegany

        10       State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation

        11       Commission:  Ralph James Vanner, Jr., of

        12       Buffalo.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       question is on the nomination of Ralph James

        15       Vanner, Jr., of Buffalo, to become a member of

        16       the Allegany State Park, Recreation and Historic

        17       Preservation Commission.  All those in favor of

        18       the nomination signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The nominee is confirmed.

        23                      The Secretary will continue to

        24       read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,







                                                             
5907

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nominations:  Members of the Advisory

         3       Council on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse

         4       Services:  Richard G. Dobell, of Endwell;

         5       Mitchell S. Rosenthal, M.D., of New York City;

         6       John W. Russell, Jr., of Staten Island and John

         7       B. Wingate, of Huntington.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       question is on the nomination of several members

        10       to become members of the Advisory Council on

        11       Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services.  All

        12       those in favor of the nominees signify by saying

        13       aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye".)

        15                      Opposed, nay.

        16                      (There was no response.)

        17                      The nominees are confirmed.

        18                      The Secretary will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        20       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        21       following nominations:  Members of the Mental

        22       Health Services Council:  Steven Friedman, of

        23       Yorktown Heights; Leslie Franklin Major, M.D.,

        24       of Binghamton and Barry Bruce Perlman, M.D., of

        25       New York City.







                                                             
5908

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       question is on the nomination of several to

         3       become members of the Mental Health Services

         4       Council.  All those in favor of the nominations

         5       signify by saying aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye".)

         7                      Opposed, nay.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The nominees are confirmed.

        10                      The Secretary will continue to

        11       read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        13       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        14       following nomination:  Member of the Passenger

        15       Tramway Advisory Council:  Ray Allard, of

        16       Rensselaer.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       question is on the nomination of Ray Allard, of

        19       Rensselaer, New York, to become a member of the

        20       Passenger Tramway Advisory Council.  All those

        21       in favor of the nomination signify by saying

        22       aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)

        24                      Opposed, nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
5909

         1                      The nominee is confirmed.

         2                      The Secretary will continue to

         3       read.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Stafford, from the Committee on Finance, reports

         6       the following nomination:  Member of the Board

         7       of Visitors of the Bronx Children's Psychiatric

         8       Center:  Harriet Parness, of the Bronx.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       question is on the nomination of Harriet

        11       Parness, of the Bronx, to become a member of the

        12       Board of Visitors of the Bronx Children's

        13       Psychiatric Center.  All those in favor of the

        14       nomination signify by saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye".)

        16                      Opposed, nay.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      The nominee is confirmed.

        19                      The Secretary will continue to

        20       read.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Stafford, from the Committee on Finance, reports

        23       the following nomination:  Member of the Board

        24       of Visitors of the Brooklyn Developmental

        25       Disabilities Services Office:  Arlene Cohen, of







                                                             
5910

         1       Great Neck.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       question is on the nomination of Arlene Cohen of

         4       Great Neck, New York to become a member of the

         5       Board of Visitors of the Brooklyn Developmental

         6       Disabilities Services Office.  All those in

         7       favor of the nomination signify by saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye".)

         9                      Opposed, nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nominee is confirmed.

        12                      The Secretary will continue to

        13       read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        15       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        16       following nominations:  Members of the Board of

        17       Visitors of the Buffalo Psychiatric Center:

        18       Morris Raiken, of Buffalo, and Garnet Hicks

        19       Wallace, of Buffalo.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       question is on the nomination of several to

        22       become members of the Board of Visitors of the

        23       Buffalo Psychiatric Center.  All those in favor

        24       signify by saying aye.

        25                      (Response of "Aye".)







                                                             
5911

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The nominees are confirmed.

         4                      The Secretary will continue to

         5       read.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Stafford, from the Committee on Finance, reports

         8       the following nominations:  Members of the Board

         9       of Visitors of the Capital District

        10       Developmental Disabilities Services Office:

        11       Linda S. Rippel, of Scotia and Joan D. Taylor,

        12       of Schenectady.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       question is on the nomination of several to

        15       become members of the Board of Visitors of the

        16       Capital District Developmental Disabilities

        17       Services Office.  All those in favor of the

        18       nominations signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The nominees are confirmed.

        23                      The Secretary will continue to

        24       read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,







                                                             
5912

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nomination:  Member of the Board of

         3       Visitors of the Central New York Developmental

         4       Disabilities Services Office:  Eleanora L.

         5       Collins, of Rome.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       question is on the nomination of Eleanora L.

         8       Collins, of Rome, New York, to become a member

         9       of the Board of Visitors of the Central New York

        10       Developmental Disabilities Services Office:  All

        11       those in favor of the nomination signify by

        12       saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye".)

        14                      Opposed, nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The nominee is confirmed.

        17                      The Secretary will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        19       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        20       following nomination:  Member of the Board of

        21       Visitors of the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center:

        22       Hector Battaglia, M.D., of Centerport.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       question is on the nomination of Hector

        25       Battaglia, M.D., of Centerport, to become a







                                                             
5913

         1       member of the Board of Visitors of the Creedmoor

         2       Psychiatric Center.  All those in favor of the

         3       nomination signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The nominee is confirmed.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nomination:  Member of the Board of

        12       Visitors of the Elmira Psychiatric Center:

        13       Marion S. Lagonegro, of Elmira.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       question is on the nomination of Marion S.

        16       Lagonegro, of Elmira, New York, to become a

        17       member of the Board of Visitors of the Elmira

        18       Psychiatric Center.  All those in favor of the

        19       nomination signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye".)

        21                      Opposed, nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The nominee is confirmed.

        24                      The Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,







                                                             
5914

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nominations:  Members of the Board of

         3       Visitors of the Long Island Developmental

         4       Disabilities Services Office:  Eleanor Schoen,

         5       of Halesite and Reverend James Stringfield, of

         6       West Babylon.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       question is on the nomination of several to

         9       become members of the Board of Visitors of the

        10       Long Island Developmental Disabilities Services

        11       Office.  All those in favor of the nomination

        12       signify by saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye".)

        14                      Opposed, nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The nominees are confirmed.

        17                      The Secretary will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        19       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        20       following nominations:  Members of the Board of

        21       Visitors of the Mohawk Valley Psychiatric

        22       Center:  Josephine M. Alexander, of Whitesboro

        23       and James Blackshear, of Utica.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       question is on the nomination of several to







                                                             
5915

         1       become members of the Board of Visitors of the

         2       Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center.  All those in

         3       favor of the nomination signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The nominees are confirmed.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nominations:  Member of the Board of

        12       Visitors of the Sagamore Children's Psychiatric

        13       Center:  William P. Barrett, of Huntington Bay.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       question is on the nomination of William P.

        16       Barrett, of Huntington Bay, to become a member

        17       of the Board of Visitors of the Sagamore

        18       Children's Psychiatric Center.  All those in

        19       favor of the nomination signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye".)

        21                      Opposed, nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The nominee is confirmed.

        24                      The Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,







                                                             
5916

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nomination:  Member of the Board of

         3       Visitors of the South Beach Psychiatric Center:

         4       Robert S. Flanzer, D.D.S., of Brooklyn.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       question is on the nomination of Robert S.

         7       Flanzer, D.D.S., of Brooklyn, New York, to

         8       become a member of the South Beach Psychiatric

         9       Center.  All those in favor signify by saying

        10       aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye".)

        12                      Opposed, nay.

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      The nominee is confirmed.

        15                      The Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        17       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        18       following nominations:  Members -- Member of the

        19       Board of Visitors of the Sunmount Developmental

        20       Disabilities Services Office:  William A.

        21       Hughes, of Malone.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       question is on the nomination of William A.

        24       Hughes, of Malone, New York, to become a member

        25       of the Board of Visitors of the Sunmount







                                                             
5917

         1       Developmental Disabilities Services Office.  All

         2       those in favor of the nomination signify by

         3       saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The nominee is confirmed.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nominations:  Member of the Board of

        12       Visitors of the Western New York Children's

        13       Psychiatric Center:  Anthony V. D'Amore, of

        14       Lancaster.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       question is on the nomination of Anthony B.

        17       D'Amore, of Lancaster, New York, to become a

        18       member of the Board of Visitors of the Western

        19       New York Children's Psychiatric Center.  All

        20       those in favor of the nomination signify by

        21       saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye".)

        23                      Opposed, nay.

        24                      (There was no response.)

        25                      The nominee is confirmed.







                                                             
5918

         1                      The Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         3       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         4       following nominations:  Members of the Board of

         5       Visitors of Western New York Developmental

         6       Disabilities Services Office:  Louis J.

         7       Billittier, of Hamburg; Kay F. Cook, of Batavia;

         8       Mary Ellen Murphy, of West Seneca and Jessie B.

         9       Wells, of Buffalo.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       question is on the nomination of several to

        12       become members of the Board of Visitors of

        13       Western New York Developmental Disabilities

        14       Services Office.  All those in favor of the

        15       nominations signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye".)

        17                      Opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The nominees are confirmed.

        20                      Senator Johnson, that brings us

        21       to the controversial calendar.

        22                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        23       at this time please take up Calendar Number

        24       1344.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5919

         1       Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number

         2       1344.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1344, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4808-A, an

         5       act to authorize Stuart L. Ain to apply for

         6       retroactive membership.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        12       a home rule message at the desk.  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        16       the negatives and announce the results.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53, nays 1,

        18       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Skelos.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        23       if we could take up the controversial calendar

        24       at this time.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
5920

         1       Secretary will read the controversial calendar.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       110, by Senator Present, Senate Print 765-A, an

         4       act to amend the State Administrative Procedure

         5       Act, in relation to compliance requirements.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Present, an explanation of Calendar Number 110,

         9       Senate 765-A, has been requested by Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      Mr. President, this is a bill

        14       that passed, the original version, on March 12th

        15       of this year.  We've amended it.  It amends the

        16       Administrative Procedure Act and the Executive

        17       Law, in relation to compliance requirements.

        18                      The bill is meant to assist small

        19       businesses, individuals and municipalities who

        20       have to abide by state regulations which are

        21       often vague and require arbitration.

        22                      Under the provisions of this

        23       bill, agencies will be required to provide

        24       information to assist individuals, businesses in

        25       satisfying the many compliance requirements







                                                             
5921

         1       imposed by the state agency.

         2                      Under the amendment, we've

         3       deleted -- it would not apply to the Office of

         4       Mental Health, Department of Motor Vehicles,

         5       Department of Social Services or the Division of

         6       Criminal Justice Services.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Leichter.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        10       if Senator Present would yield, please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Present, do you yield to a question?  The

        13       Senator yields.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, do

        15       you still include among those agencies covered

        16       by your bill the Department of Taxation and

        17       Finance?

        18                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Yes.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, Senator

        20       -- if you would continue to yield -- I'm

        21       concerned.  Suppose I write a letter to the

        22       Department of Taxation and Finance and ask them

        23       all the kinds of information necessary to -- for

        24       me to satisfy my obligation to file a tax

        25       return.  Would they -- which I would assume for







                                                             
5922

         1       them to comply with, they would have to tell me

         2       how to make out the form and all sorts of other

         3       information.  Do you intend to include that

         4       within the confines of your bill?

         5                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I think they

         6       would send you the form that they send us all

         7       with the packet of documents and the information

         8       as to how to fill it out.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And, Senator,

        10       would that satisfy the requirements of your

        11       bill?  That's really my question.

        12                      SENATOR PRESENT:  I believe it

        13       would.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Leichter, did you have something further?

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, if that's

        17       the legislative intent.  I just want to make

        18       sure, Senator Present, that we don't impose a

        19       requirement on the agencies that really is going

        20       to make it impossible for them to enforce any

        21       particular rule as to any individual by that

        22       individual writing and tell me, Well, you tell

        23       me exactly what I need to know.  I mean, there

        24       are certain obligations and requirements that we

        25       have to inform ourselves of the law, to comply







                                                             
5923

         1       with the law, to furnish information that's

         2       required that we should not have the ability to

         3       put on the agency.

         4                      Now, I have no problem in saying

         5       to an agency at least, you know, tell us exactly

         6       what it is that we're required to provide.  If

         7       you feel your language is clear enough and it

         8       doesn't cover the Department of Taxation and

         9       Finance in the instance -- in the example that I

        10       just gave you, I have no problem with the bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first day of

        15       October.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       125, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 931-A, an

        24       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        25       prohibiting the direct merchandising.







                                                             
5924

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      Senator Paterson, did you wish an

         5       explanation?

         6                      Senator Maziarz, an explanation

         7       of Calendar Number 125 has been requested by

         8       Senator Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Excuse me,

        10       Senator Paterson.  I was taking an aspirin now.

        11       You wanted an explanation?

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.

        13                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Senator

        14       Paterson, this bill would prohibit the

        15       merchandising of credit cards on SUNY and CUNY

        16       campuses.  It would not prohibit a student from

        17       obtaining a credit card.  It would only prohibit

        18       the merchandising of those credit cards.

        19                      What we are seeing today is

        20       banking institutions and credit card

        21       institutions setting up tables, if you will, in

        22       student centers and giving out mostly water

        23       bottles or CDs or some type of incentive for

        24       young people to obtain a credit card with an

        25       extremely low line of credit.  Generally it's







                                                             
5925

         1       around $500.

         2                      The student obtains the credit

         3       card because they want the merchandise and what

         4       we are finding is that many students, in

         5       addition to the normal expenses of the

         6       education, their tuition and fees for dormitory

         7       facilities and food, and so forth, are finding

         8       after four years that they're graduating with

         9       enormous debt not only related to school and

        10       education expenses but related to credit card

        11       purchases because, as what is often the case,

        12       once a credit card company has you as a

        13       customer, they continually increase your level

        14       of expenditures, and I can tell you one example,

        15       a letter that I received from a young student

        16       who had graduated whose credit card limit was

        17       raised eventually up to $10,000 and she was

        18       employed as a part-time pizza delivery person.

        19       Now, I'm sure that that may be an abnormal

        20       example, but I think it goes to show the extent

        21       that some companies will go to get business.

        22                      I also found it very interesting

        23       that some educational institutions,

        24       particularly, I believe it was SUNY-Albany that

        25       I read about, is adding credit counseling to







                                                             
5926

         1       their freshman orientation program and at the

         2       same time they're allowing these private

         3       institutions to set up in their student centers

         4       and I think enticing students to get behind the

         5       financial eight ball before they can have a

         6       chance.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Paterson.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        10       Maziarz, if you would yield for a question.

        11       Would you yield for a question?

        12                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       yields.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Many times

        16       I've thought about the issue that you've raised

        17       with this piece of legislation.  Sometimes I

        18       feel that half of the mail that I receive comes

        19       from credit companies and there's a big zero

        20       percent interest or something about loans that

        21       they're promising to make and certainly younger

        22       people often do not fully weigh the responsi

        23       bilities of running credit, and I received a

        24       letter, I guess much the same that you have from

        25       a younger person who now owed $50,000 to







                                                             
5927

         1       different credit card companies and this person

         2       couldn't have been older than 25 and they were

         3       saying that part of the problem they saw is that

         4       they didn't understand what the ramifications

         5       were, and what the refinancing of some of these

         6       cards was going to be.

         7                      So I think this is a good

         8       effort.  However, one question immediately comes

         9       to mind is why you chose to regulate just the

        10       state universities and not all of the colleges

        11       in the jur... in the -- in the boundaries of New

        12       York State.

        13                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Well, most of

        14       the private colleges that we contacted already

        15       have this prohibition -- already have this

        16       prohibition in their -- for their institutions,

        17       Senator.  And also because these are publicly

        18       funded by tax dollars.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        22       I think I'd feel a little better voting for the

        23       bill knowing that the private colleges have done

        24       that and that it's part of the legislation, but

        25       if the Senator would continue to yield for







                                                             
5928

         1       another question?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Maziarz, you continue to yield?

         4                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes, I will.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       continues to yield.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, what

         8       some of the credit card companies and what the

         9       banks are saying in their response to this

        10       legislation is that they're going to find a way,

        11       and maybe this is an audacious point of view

        12       that they are averring, but they're basically

        13       pointing out that they're going to find these

        14       students anyway.  They're going to get their

        15       address.  They're going to mail to them.

        16       They're going to find out what their home

        17       addresses are and that they'll mail to them

        18       there.  They'll make telephone calls to their

        19       home numbers to talk to them and at least when

        20       they come on the campuses, they feel that the

        21       supervisory capacity of the institution will

        22       probably be better for the student.

        23                      Are you aware of any supervisory

        24       activity other than credit counseling courses

        25       that the institutions, meaning the colleges, are







                                                             
5929

         1       involving themselves in?

         2                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Absolutely no

         3       supervision that I'm aware of whatsoever, and

         4       I -- and I went out to three SUNY campuses and

         5       observed this practice going on.  There was no

         6       supervision.  In fact, if anything, Senator, it

         7       was just the opposite.  There were all these

         8       enticements.  In one instance, I witnessed a

         9       student being told, you know, apply for the

        10       credit card we'll give you the CD.  When you get

        11       the credit card, simply tear it up and don't

        12       ever use it, and that I'm sure is never going to

        13       happen.

        14                      Now, you've mentioned earlier

        15       about enticements through the mail and by

        16       telephone.  Of course, that is still going to be

        17       acceptable, but I think there is a large

        18       difference between getting something in the

        19       mail, being able to examine what the interest

        20       rate is going to be, and so forth, as opposed to

        21       having someone stand there with a free CD or a

        22       free water bottle and tell you, if you just sign

        23       your name here, you'll get this.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Paterson.







                                                             
5930

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.  On the bill.

         3                      There are probably some other

         4       efforts that we can think of toward -- that

         5       would be directed not only toward providing

         6       protection for younger people who are in this

         7       situation but probably providing protection for

         8       the public as well.  This is obviously a choice

         9       that people make, but sometimes there is really

        10       a connection between the -- the advertisement

        11       and the choice, particularly individuals who are

        12       in school and may work as pizza delivery, sales

        13       persons, or they are people who actually deliver

        14       products.  They don't make much money on those

        15       jobs.  They're working their way through school

        16       and the inducement and almost at times the

        17       seduction of putting money or goods in front of

        18       them with an understanding that one can pay for

        19       it later when in all reality the individual

        20       wouldn't be able to accumulate the resources in

        21       a reasonable enough time to actually pay for the

        22       products that they receive, is a very fair

        23       point.

        24                      I would like to see the bill be

        25       specific to all of the schools in New York, but







                                                             
5931

         1       I do feel persuaded by Senator Maziarz who I

         2       hope I didn't provide him with too much of a

         3       headache asking him all of those questions, but

         4       I'm sure he'll get over it because I'm going to

         5       vote for the bill.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Lachman.

         8                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  Will the

         9       distinguished Senator yield for another

        10       question?

        11                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Sure.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Maziarz yields.

        14                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  In follow-up to

        15       Senator Paterson's questions dealing with the

        16       private colleges and the private universities,

        17       Senator Maziarz, I believe you said that most of

        18       the private colleges have already laws against

        19       merchandising of credit cards, and anyway you

        20       weren't sure that this would be applicable to

        21       them because they're not part of the State

        22       University and the City University of New York.

        23                      Would it not be possible, sir, to

        24       look into this further after we pass this

        25       legislation today -- and I am in favor of this







                                                             
5932

         1       legislation -- to make certain that this is

         2       applicable to all the colleges and universities

         3       in the state of New York, since there will be a

         4       consistency, and furthermore, in response to

         5       your response to Senator Paterson, all colleges

         6       now in the state of New York receive state

         7       funding, not just the SUNY and CUNY campuses but

         8       almost all, if not all of the private colleges

         9       and universities receive some type and form of

        10       state funding.

        11                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  The answer to

        12       your question, Senator, is yes.

        13                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  Thank you.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        15       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        16                      The Secretary will read the last

        17       section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the first day of July.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
5933

         1                      Secretary will continue to read

         2       the controversial calendar.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       178, by Senator Liebell -- by Senator Leibell,

         5       Senate Print 2227-A, an act to amend the Private

         6       Housing Finance Law, in relation to the powers

         7       of the New York City Housing Development

         8       Corporation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Might we hold

        12       that bill for just a minute for Senator Smith?

        13       She's out of the chamber on other business and

        14       we'll get her in.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Liebell, will you lay that bill aside

        17       temporarily?

        18                      SENATOR LIEBELL:  Yes.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside temporarily.

        21                      Continue the controversial

        22       calendar.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       341, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2550-A, an

        25       act to amend the Insurance Law.







                                                             
5934

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay aside for

         2       the day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the

         4       bill aside for the day.

         5                      Secretary will continue to call

         6       the controversial calendar.

         7                      THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

         8       367, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2734-A, an

         9       act to amend the State Finance Law, in relation

        10       to filing.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Leichter, did you want an explanation?

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I have an

        14       explanation, but I have an amendment we're

        15       serving at this time.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Farley -

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  We haven't

        19       filed it, but I did mention it to my good

        20       friend.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Farley, an explanation has been requested.

        23                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes, I'll give

        24       you just basically.  I'm aware of this amendment

        25       and I'll speak to that too because it's not a







                                                             
5935

         1       bad idea, frankly.

         2                      Currently state employees may

         3       choose to have their paycheck deposited in a

         4       bank and credit union, their entire paycheck.

         5       However, if the employee wants the direct

         6       deposit, only a portion of his or her paycheck,

         7       let's say a car payment or something, this can

         8       only occur through payroll deduction to a credit

         9       union.

        10                      Now, this bill would provide the

        11       state employees with an additional option.  It

        12       would allow them to choose to have only a

        13       portion, if they wished, of the paycheck

        14       directly deposited into a banking institution;

        15       in other words, it kind of levels the field.

        16       It's a bill that has had no objection by

        17       anybody, but if you don't want to put your whole

        18       paycheck in, you can put a portion in.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Leichter.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        22       just -- I believe the amendment is at the desk

        23       and I'd like to call it up, please.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Just a

        25       minute, Senator Leichter.  Let me check.







                                                             
5936

         1                      Senator Leichter, you moving to

         2       offer up the amendment, waive its reading and

         3       have an opportunity to explain it?

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If I may.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         6       will recognize you for that purpose.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      This is a very simple amendment,

        10       and it's not a hostile amendment.  I have no

        11       problem with Senator Farley's bill.  I really

        12       just wanted to put this particular proposal in

        13       front of the body because it's a matter that

        14       came to my attention, where somebody, an

        15       employee who had arranged direct deposit, then

        16       got into a dispute with her employer, and her

        17       employer not only canceled her direct deposit,

        18       but actually had the bank refund to the employer

        19       the last deposit that had been made and this was

        20       done without any notice to the employee and,

        21       when I called the bank on behalf of this

        22       constituent, the bank said, that's what the

        23       contract of direct deposit provides.

        24                      If you take a look, and I assume

        25       many of you have direct deposits, I don't think







                                                             
5937

         1       it's the case with the direct deposit of our

         2       Senate checks, but other instances of direct

         3       deposits provide that the depositor can notify

         4       the bank to return the money, and the bank is

         5       obligated and will do so, but no notice

         6       whatsoever is given to the person in whose

         7       account the money has been deposited.

         8                      You could be writing checks

         9       thinking, well, I've got this money in the bank,

        10       and all my amendment does is say that before

        11       that is done, notice has to be given that the -

        12       that a request has been made to return the money

        13       and I would hope my good friend, the chairman of

        14       Banks -- and he puts out a number of bills that

        15       make the banks very happy -- maybe he'll put out

        16       a bill that will make the consumers happy.

        17                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you,

        18       Senator Leichter.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Farley, you wish to be heard on the amendment?

        21                      SENATOR FARLEY:  This guy is

        22       agreeing with you.  I'm in trouble here.

        23       Actually, we could make legislative history.

        24       I'm willing to -- incidentally, you know as well

        25       as I do, and I spoke to you about this, that an







                                                             
5938

         1       amendment at this stage of the game would kill

         2       the bill.  We couldn't do it.  I -- I'm ready to

         3       make legislative history and it will be a

         4       Leichter-Farley bill, because I think it's

         5       wrong.  This happened in your district where

         6       somebody, not only did the employer reach right

         7       into the bank account and pull back the

         8       employee's money, and I think that's improper

         9       and I think that they at least should have

        10       notified the employee.

        11                      I think your amendment is

        12       eminently sensible, and I'm willing -- I spoke

        13       with my director of Banks and we're willing to

        14       do something with you on that, and we'll put the

        15       bill in and I'll be happy to co-sponsor with

        16       you, Senator Leichter.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Farley, are you asking that the bill be laid

        19       aside?

        20                      SENATOR FARLEY:  No, I'm not.  I

        21       want this bill passed.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Well,

        23       then are you speaking against the amendment or

        24       for it?

        25                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I like the







                                                             
5939

         1       amendment, but I wish that the amendment would

         2       fail.  I would bet, if you were to ask, Mr.

         3       President, that the sponsor of that amendment

         4       might withdraw it.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are you

         6       asking Senator Leichter to yield to a question?

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I'd

         8       be -- I'd be happy in this instance, on your

         9       representation that you'd like to see a bill of

        10       this sort, I just suggest that it be a Farley

        11       Leichter bill.  I think it will have clearer

        12       sailing, but irrespective of the name it has,

        13       it's something that we ought to do.

        14                      I withdraw the amendment.  I look

        15       forward to this bill, if not done this session

        16       at least next session.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       amendment is withdrawn.

        19                      Secretary will read the last

        20       section on the bill.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll. )







                                                             
5940

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Secretary will continue to read

         5       the controversial calendar.

         6                      Excuse me.  Senator Skelos.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please recognize

         8       Senator Paterson.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        12       in this moment of legislative glee, I thought

        13       that we would call up Calendar 178 again because

        14       Senator Smith has come to an accommodation with

        15       Senator Liebell.  We're all just getting along.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please call up

        17       Calendar 178.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read Calendar Number 178.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       178, by Senator Liebell, Senate Print 2227-A, an

        22       act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        24       will read the last section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This







                                                             
5941

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                      Secretary will continue to call

         9       the controversial calendar in regular order.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       447, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3070, an

        12       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        13       possession.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the first day of

        18       November.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Paterson.







                                                             
5942

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  With the kind

         2       permission of the Majority, might we temporarily

         3       lay this -- lay that aside.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please withdraw

         5       the roll call and lay the bill aside

         6       temporarily.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Roll call

         8       is withdrawn.  The bill is laid aside

         9       temporarily.

        10                      Secretary will continue to read

        11       the controversial calendar, regular order.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       574, by Senator Liebell, Senate Print 3674-A, an

        14       act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I







                                                             
5943

         1       believe another accommodation has been made if

         2       you'd call up Calendar Number 447.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

         4       Number 574 was just passed.

         5                      Secretary will read Calendar

         6       Number 447.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       447, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3070, an

         9       act to amend the Penal Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first day of

        14       November.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       575, by Senator Liebell, Senate Print 3731, an

        23       act to amend Chapter 915 of the Laws of 1982.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Liebell, an explanation of Calendar Number 575







                                                             
5944

         1       has been requested by Senator Leichter.

         2                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  O.K.

         3                      This is -- Senator Leichter, this

         4       is a SONYMA bill that is made at the request of

         5       the agency.

         6                      The purpose of this bill is to

         7       accomplish three tasks.  We extend the sunset

         8       date of SONYMA's mortgage financing and mortgage

         9       insurance programs.  We increase the maximum

        10       amount of taxable exempt and taxable bonds which

        11       SONYMA is authorized to issue and we also

        12       increase the amount of taxes and bond proceeds

        13       that can be blended with taxable bond proceeds.

        14                      The extenders -- the extenders

        15       are for three years.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        21       Liebell would yield.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Liebell, you yield to a question?  Senator

        24       yields.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, you







                                                             
5945

         1       had a bill which you and I discussed on the

         2       floor, oh, maybe a few weeks ago which increased

         3       the bonding authority of the Housing Finance

         4       Agency.  Does this bill cover that provision,

         5       authorization, that we have provided?

         6                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  This is

         7       distinct from that bill.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  O.K. You

         9       remember my concern was -

        10                      SENATOR LIEBELL:  I do.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  -- as far as

        12       funding mortgage insurance for luxury housing.

        13       Is that in any way possible in relation to the

        14       bonding authority that we're providing here for

        15       SONYMA?

        16                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  I've been

        17       advised by counsel that it would not.  Luxury

        18       housing would not meet the qualifications

        19       necessary.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Is this

        21       program mainly for one- and two-family homes?

        22                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  That's correct,

        23       Senator.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right, and

        25       the only thing we're providing is more bonding







                                                             
5946

         1       authority for that program with all the income

         2       limitations that applies to that.

         3                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  That's

         4       correct.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       784, by Senator Maziarz.

        17                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Lay that aside

        18       for the day, please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside for the day.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       907, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5213-A, an

        23       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to tax on

        24       mortgages.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.







                                                             
5947

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Goodman.  Senator Leichter?  Senator Leichter.

         3                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Can we just

         4       take a minute?

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Could you lay

         6       this aside for just a little while?

         7                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Senator, that's

         8       going to be difficult because I have a

         9       scheduling problem.  Would you mind if we tried

        10       to move it?

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  That's fine.

        12       I was just trying to obviate the necessity of

        13       discussing it on the floor.

        14                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I appreciate

        15       that very much, if it's O.K.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Fine.

        17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  May I explain

        18       it to you, sir?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Goodman, for an explanation.

        21                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes.  The

        22       purpose of this bill is to modernize and clarify

        23       provisions of Article 11 of the Tax Law

        24       regarding mortgage recording taxes.

        25                      Many of the provisions of Article







                                                             
5948

         1       11 were first enacted in 1906 or 1909, where the

         2       nature of the tax imposed was changed from a tax

         3       on the mortgage itself to a tax on the recording

         4       of the mortgage.  The provisions of Article 11

         5       have not been amended adequately to reflect this

         6       change.

         7                      This bill modernizes and

         8       clarifies the language in order to accurately

         9       represent the current nature of the tax, to

        10       modernize certain procedures and to make the

        11       provisions more readable, understandable, and

        12       equitable.

        13                      I would emphasize, Senator, in

        14       response to some questions I know or I believe

        15       you raised earlier, this does not affect any tax

        16       rates, nor is it a policy issue.  It's simply an

        17       attempt to clean up some rather encrusted and

        18       ancient anomalies.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Leichter.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        22       Goodman would yield please?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Goodman, would you yield to a question?

        25                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I will.







                                                             
5949

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       yields.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, my

         4       concern was what impact this would have on tax

         5       revenue, and your counsel was good enough to

         6       give me a letter and, frankly, what I wanted to

         7       do was just ask a question of you and I was

         8       ready to do that privately, about this letter,

         9       because I didn't understand it.  So now let me

        10       do it on the floor since that's how you wish to

        11       proceed.

        12                      The -- and I'm reading a letter

        13       that was sent to your office by the Department

        14       of Taxation and Finance.

        15                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  (Inaudible

        16       comment).

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And it says,

        18       referring to one particular section, adds a new

        19       exemption for mortgages that were inadvertently

        20       discharged, and then it says, this is a policy

        21       change to exempt from tax those inadvertent

        22       recordings which are currently subject to tax.

        23                      Frankly, I have trouble under

        24       standing it.  It was inadvertently recorded or

        25       if there should have been no tax paid, it would







                                                             
5950

         1       seem to me something that could be corrected.  I

         2       don't see why they call that an exemption from

         3       the tax.  "Exemption" to me means that you're

         4       subject to the tax and now by virtue of the

         5       action we're taking, you're going to be

         6       exempted.

         7                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  That's

         8       incorrect, Senator; it's not an exemption.  It's

         9       a little bit confusing in the way it's been

        10       described.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  So you're

        12       reading the letter that the Department, or the

        13       counsel to the Department somewhat misspoke and

        14       that we're not creating a new exemption?

        15                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  That is

        16       precisely the position that I have taken,

        17       Senator.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  O.K. And then

        19       this counsel finishes that paragraph, says it is

        20       likely that this provision will have a minimal

        21       negative effect on mortgage recording tax

        22       revenue.  So it seemed to me that they do assume

        23       that there will be some fiscal impact, although

        24       counsel says, well, it's likely to be minimal,

        25       but it doesn't seem to speak with any great







                                                             
5951

         1       certitude about it, and maybe what counsel

         2       thinks is minimal is not something that you and

         3       I would think is minimal, and I was trying to

         4       see whether we could get some idea of actual

         5       figures that we may be talking about.

         6                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Senator, I

         7       think that what they have really indicated to us

         8       in conversation is that they do not know how to

         9       calculate the impact.  They believe it to be de

        10       minimus.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, all

        12       right.  It would be -- it would have been

        13       helpful to have had some figures on this.

        14       Senator, I -- I accept your explanation or

        15       correction of what the Department explained as

        16       far as it was doing in the bill.

        17                      I see there's another provision

        18       in here where taxpayers have to produce only one

        19       appraisal of fair market value rather than two.

        20       As you and I know, it's really not very

        21       difficult to get an appraiser who tends to look

        22       at matters the way your client or her client

        23       wishes them to look at it so I'm not so sure

        24       that two wouldn't be better, but I guess you

        25       could find two appraisers who would do exactly







                                                             
5952

         1       what you want, so maybe that doesn't have that

         2       much of an effect.

         3                      Let me just say on the bill, if I

         4       may, Senator -- thank you for your explanation.

         5       I guess one of the problems we have is, I mean

         6       here we have a very lengthy bill that really may

         7       not make any great substantive changes in the

         8       law.  The difficulty is that it springs upon

         9       us.  It's very hard to try to get information in

        10       the closing days or maybe in the closing days of

        11       the session.  There's a lot of activity going

        12       on, and my belief is, and this is not addressed

        13       to Senator Goodman because certainly he didn't

        14       delay this bill but it was a bill that was put

        15       in on April 11th.  We're dealing with it now.

        16       We've had so much dead time in April and in May

        17       and even dead time in June where we could have

        18       taken up these bills, where we would have had

        19       more time to look at it, where we could have had

        20       sufficient time to get explanation and be sure

        21       what we're doing, and I guess maybe it's -- I'm

        22       a voice crying in the wilderness, although I

        23       think everybody feels the same thing.

        24                      Why can't we handle these bills

        25       in regular course during the year when we're







                                                             
5953

         1       here, when we have time instead of having

         2       everything compressed at the end and when we

         3       have such great time pressures and when we don't

         4       have the opportunity to look into these bills as

         5       carefully as we should?

         6                      I accept what Senator Goodman

         7       says, and I just hope that we find out that this

         8       bill will not have a significant impact on the

         9       revenue from mortgage taxes.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 31.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first day of the

        15       fourth month.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Skelos.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you call







                                                             
5954

         1       up Calendar Number 1335 by Senator DeFrancisco.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the title.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1335, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 2430,

         6       concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly

         7       proposing amendment to Sections 13, 14 and 16.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number

        11       1335 has been requested.

        12                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  This

        13       is a bill that, if passed and it became law, it

        14       would be the first passage towards a

        15       Constitutional Amendment which would indicate

        16       that, if the Legislature and the Governor were

        17       late beyond April 1st in a budget cycle, we

        18       would automatically have a budget of the prior

        19       year, a base line budget from the prior year.

        20                      The Senate has passed other bills

        21       similar to this that have been criticized as

        22       one-house bills and that they never went

        23       anywhere in the Assembly and in the Assembly

        24       there's been some bills that they have passed

        25       that they claim will resolve this budget crisis







                                                             
5955

         1       where we're late in budgets.

         2                      The significance of this

         3       particular bill is that there is an identical

         4       bill in the Assembly sponsored by 34 Majority

         5       members, and earlier this year we had a news

         6       conference with the sponsor, Sandra Galef,

         7       Assembly Majority member, so there is an

         8       identical bill with many, many Majority members

         9       in the Assembly, and it's a bill whose time has

        10       come to have a remedy for the late budget

        11       process.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Gold.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        16       here we stand a day before we've been told by

        17       the leader of this house we're going to adjourn

        18       and we do not have a budget.  While there are

        19       people to blame, I'm not prepared to blame

        20       Senator DeFrancisco, personally.  I don't think

        21       it's all on his shoulders.  I think it's

        22       interesting that in an earlier debate I asked

        23       Senator DeFrancisco whether he would vote for

        24       the Governor's budget as the Governor proposed

        25       that budget this year, and he told me no, which







                                                             
5956

         1       I thought was an honest answer, and I won't give

         2       any more meaning to it other than to make

         3       reference to it.

         4                      This so-called reform package, to

         5       me, is just an admission that the Pataki-Bruno

         6       team can't abide by -- can't get a budget

         7       together, and so we look for other mechanisms.

         8       This is the third year when the Governor of this

         9       state has attempted a budget.  The first year

        10       the Governor offered a budget and this Senate,

        11       this house passed its own version of a budget

        12       which -- which spent about a half a billion

        13       dollars more than the Governor, and there was an

        14       immediate recognition that, if the Governor's

        15       budget passed, we would have havoc in certain

        16       areas of this state.

        17                      Eventually, there was a budget

        18       enacted and that spent a total of $700 million

        19       more than the Governor, but in that first year,

        20       Senator Bruno said that the Senate must act.  We

        21       have a constitutional obligation to act and we

        22       did, in fact, pass a budget and I know that

        23       every member of this house remembers the finger

        24       pointing by Senator Bruno across the building to

        25       Assembly Speaker Silver, saying, Where is the







                                                             
5957

         1       budget?  Where is the budget?  Where is your

         2       idea of a budget? Give us your idea of a

         3       budget.  We can have conference committees and

         4       we could have a budget.

         5                      Last year, thanks to Wall Street

         6       primarily, money seemed to be flowing and the

         7       Governor submitted a budget in December and

         8       immediately in January he added 86 million more

         9       and then since the Legislature couldn't agree on

        10       a budget, the Governor added another 355

        11       million, and it wasn't until some time in July

        12       that we actually managed to pass the budget and

        13       that budget totaled over a billion dollars more

        14       than Governor Pataki suggested.

        15                      That budget was agreed to by the

        16       Majority in this house and the Majority in the

        17       other house and by many of us, but again the

        18       Legislature rejected any leadership at all from

        19       Governor Pataki and instead he has shown no

        20       leadership at all when it comes to the budget.

        21                      But last year the Assembly at

        22       least tried to get this body to pass a budget,

        23       and Senator Bruno resisted.  Now, Senator

        24       DeFrancisco, I don't think that we should be

        25       doing what we do and then ask that we reform







                                                             
5958

         1       ourselves by way of your particular

         2       legislation.  As you know, the Assembly has

         3       passed what would be real budget reform, and

         4       they can't get out in this house, Truth in

         5       Budgeting, responsible timely open budget

         6       process, require the governor create a current

         7       services budget, require that the public

         8       hearings on agency budgets be held, et cetera,

         9       et cetera.  This house won't pass that.

        10                      This house specializes in

        11       veneer.  Senator Bruno talks about reforms of

        12       legislative procedure.  He talks about all

        13       things.  These are a veneer because the bottom

        14       line is that this Legis... this house of the

        15       Legislature is probably run more strictly, more

        16       tightly than it's ever been, with less

        17       democracy.  That's the real world from day to

        18       day.

        19                      But, Senator DeFrancisco, there

        20       is nothing in the law today that prevents George

        21       Pataki from holding meetings -- five-way meet

        22       ings, by the way, which he promised when he was

        23       elected but which he forgot about very quickly.

        24       I feel badly for Assemblyman Reynolds.  I don't

        25       know why they want to exclude him from these







                                                             
5959

         1       meetings.  I don't know why they degrade him

         2       constantly, but the Governor promised five-way

         3       budget meetings.  He doesn't do that.  He

         4       doesn't even have three-way budget meetings and

         5       we are a day away from adjournment, and somebody

         6       ought to call downstairs to the second floor and

         7       remind the Governor that we're supposed to be

         8       passing a budget.  He's pretty good at

         9       diversions, but he's not so good at passing

        10       budgets, and one of the reasons he's not so good

        11       at passing budgets is that the Majority in this

        12       house does not want to stand in line with the

        13       Governor and his budget and, Senator

        14       DeFrancisco, when you answered me a few weeks

        15       ago that you wouldn't vote for his budget, I

        16       respected that.  I respected that.  I look at

        17       the budget that would do havoc at City

        18       University, that would do havoc at State

        19       University, a budget which tells people that

        20       they are -- they can't get services they need

        21       because they ought to be working and then the

        22       budget doesn't provide them with a job.  I mean

        23       it's a hoax on our people.

        24                      But the way to get a budget,

        25       Senator DeFrancisco, is to do it.  The only way







                                                             
5960

         1       to do it is to do it and we're not doing it.

         2       Now, you will say to me, Senator Gold, isn't

         3       that then a good reason to vote for my bill? If

         4       we're not doing it, let's have something in

         5       place.  And I say to you, I don't agree with

         6       that, Senator DeFrancisco.  I say we do our

         7       jobs.  If we don't want to do our jobs, get new

         8       leadership that will do the job.

         9                      Now, this year the Assembly

        10       passed its own version of the budget.  I

        11       understand that's probably not agreeable to the

        12       Majority in this house because you haven't

        13       passed it.  I guess if you liked it, you would

        14       have passed it.  But pass something, something.

        15       You don't pass the Governor's budget.  I don't

        16       blame you for that.  You won't pass the

        17       Assembly's budget.  Apparently you don't like

        18       it.  Pass something.  Take a public stand.  We

        19       just went through this whole debacle over rent

        20       where we did nothing more than to scare the huge

        21       tenant population and throughout that whole

        22       situation there was posturing by the Majority

        23       Leader, but never did the Senate pass the bill,

        24       and the reason was that any bill you would have

        25       passed would have been embarrassing to some of







                                                             
5961

         1       your members.

         2                      So I say to myself, maybe -

         3       maybe the reason the Republicans won't pass a

         4       budget this year is that any offering you make

         5       would be an embarrassment to your members, and

         6       maybe some of your members say, don't pass a

         7       budget.  When there's a final budget agreement

         8       and everybody votes for it, we have some cover.

         9       I don't believe that looking for cover is

        10       showing leadership.  The concept of conference

        11       committees is a good concept.  It's so good we

        12       even used it once, maybe twice.  I think once,

        13       am I right? What better situation would there be

        14       for conference committees than to resolve a

        15       budget?

        16                      The public would then know what

        17       you stand for, what the Assembly stands for,

        18       what we stand for, what Assemblyman Reynolds and

        19       his Minority stand for and the public could

        20       judge what we do.

        21                      I don't know why they call it

        22       public office if we're trying to hide it from

        23       the public.  Let the public see what we do, and

        24       the way you do that is by making a statement.  I

        25       ask nominees that come up from the Governor, how







                                                             
5962

         1       do you feel about this, how did you feel about

         2       that? Can't get any answers from them.

         3                      At least as a Legislature, let's

         4       get an answer.  What we think a budget should

         5       be.  You should not be afraid, Senator Bruno, of

         6       your ideas.  Put them out there.  Let's get a

         7       vote on them, but I think, Senator Bruno -

         8       Senator DeFrancisco, while you personally, I

         9       respect in your effort to do this and I think

        10       you believe in it, I think it is nothing more

        11       than a convenience for Senator Bruno and the

        12       Majority for their failures this year to deal

        13       with the budget, and I -- I think that it is not

        14       an answer to the responsibility of elected

        15       officials to pass a budget.

        16                      The Governor gave us a budget.  I

        17       won't vote for that budget.  The Assembly

        18       proposed a budget, and I don't know whether I

        19       would vote for it or not.  Put it out on the

        20       floor and give me a chance to hear it, debate it

        21       and I'll give you an answer, but if we adjourn

        22       tomorrow as things stand today, the Senate's

        23       failure is the Senate's failure, Senator

        24       DeFrancisco.  There is nobody to point to.

        25                      Each year this house votes on







                                                             
5963

         1       something in the neighborhood of 18-, 1700,

         2       2,000 bills.  The Assembly does likewise.

         3       There's a crossover of maybe a thousand bills,

         4       so the concept of one-house bills is nothing new

         5       to any member in this house, and it certainly

         6       isn't new to the Majority, because I guarantee

         7       you, 99.9 percent of the one-house bills are

         8       sponsored by the Majority Republicans.  You

         9       don't let enough of our bills out to be one

        10       house bills, so they're your one-house bills and

        11       members on your side will stand up and say,

        12       Senator Gold, it's important to pass this so

        13       that we get discussions moving.  It's important

        14       to pass this one-house bill so that it's out

        15       there.

        16                      What could be more important to

        17       be out there than the state budget? Right now

        18       the Republican version of the state budget is in

        19       the closet.  It's in somebody's drawer.  Let it

        20       have some of breath.  Be proud of it.  I don't

        21       understand why the Majority ever does anything

        22       that it is not proud of, and if you are proud of

        23       your concept of a state budget, put it out

        24       there.  Force me, if I don't like it, to cast a

        25       bad vote.  Go ahead, force me, or force me in







                                                             
5964

         1       public to vote for it and say, you -- you

         2       gentlemen and one lady have a good idea, but

         3       Senator DeFrancisco, as sincere as I believe you

         4       are with this legislation, I will close by

         5       saying what I said earlier.  This is nothing but

         6       a cover.  Your good offices or your good ideas

         7       or your sincerity is nothing but a cover being

         8       used by your colleagues on your side for the

         9       fact that they are ending this session in

        10       failure.

        11                      The Governor has offered a

        12       budget.  The Assembly has offered a budget and

        13       the reason there is no state budget right now,

        14       one of the major reasons is the failure of the

        15       Republican Majority in this house to put a

        16       budget out on the floor, pass it, and if it's

        17       not in conformity with the other two branches of

        18       government, at least set up a dialogue.  If we

        19       did that, we don't need contingency plans.  We

        20       don't need your bill.

        21                      Your bill, in my opinion, is an

        22       excuse not to do the job that we got elected to

        23       do.  I would rather do that job rather than

        24       worry what happens after I fail.

        25                      Thank you.







                                                             
5965

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       DeFrancisco.

         3                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  In my

         4       explanatory remarks, I indicated that the

         5       difference between this bill is that there's 34

         6       Majority members in the Assembly.  Now, we can

         7       sit here today and talk about Pataki's problems,

         8       about Bruno's problems.  We didn't do a budget

         9       this year.  I can point to the Weprin-Cuomo

        10       Marino team, two Democrats, one Republican, they

        11       didn't do it as well.  I can point to a couple

        12       of years ago when the Senate passed a budget and

        13       I was on the floor saying the same thing that

        14       you are, Senator, namely, that the Assembly pass

        15       a budget so we can go to conference committee.

        16                      So you can look at the Democrats,

        17       you can look at the Republicans, but the fact of

        18       the matter is, it's a systemic problem.  Every

        19       one's trying to tie their own special interests

        20       into the budget and in order to deal with the

        21       systemic problem you have to have a real

        22       solution.  We took them to court and we found it

        23       was not possible to do that.  This is a club.

        24       It didn't work.  This is a very simple

        25       approach.  It says, if you don't pass the budget







                                                             
5966

         1       this year, you're going to go back automatically

         2       to April 1st.  Nobody wants last year's budget;

         3       nobody wants it.  Some want to cut taxes, some

         4       want to spend more, some want other programs and

         5       that's precisely the beauty of the club that if

         6       we don't have the budget by April 1st, nobody

         7       gets what they want and that doesn't matter who

         8       the Majority Leader is of what party, who the

         9       Speaker is of what party, who the Governor is of

        10       what party.

        11                      This is party neutral.  It's

        12       something that no one would want to do, go to

        13       last year's budget, and that's why people would

        14       get together or at least I think they would get

        15       together.  We get criticized for one-house bills

        16       and solutions that aren't adopted by the other

        17       house.  34 Assembly Majority members think this

        18       is a good idea, think this is a good idea, and I

        19       could tell you that many of the Minority

        20       members, if not all think it's a good idea.  If

        21       it gets to the floor of the Assembly and it

        22       passes here, then it's the first step to a real

        23       chance that no matter who the leaders are, no

        24       matter who the Governor is, we end up with a

        25       budget on time.







                                                             
5967

         1                      I think we owe it to our people

         2       and I think we owe it to each other to have a

         3       real remedy in this process.

         4                      Thank you.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Gold, why do you rise?

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  I would like to

         9       respond, if I could, to Senator DeFrancisco.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I have a

        11       list going, Senator Gold.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  You have a list.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There are

        14       three other members who have requested to speak

        15       on this, and we'll give you the opportunity.

        16                      SENATOR GOLD:  And in your

        17       fairness, I know you'll exercise, can I sort of

        18       get on the end of that list?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Nozzolio has left the chamber.

        21                      Senator Dollinger.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Would the

        23       sponsor yield to a couple questions?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would you

        25       yield?  Senator yields.







                                                             
5968

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  First of all,

         2       let me preface this with a couple of remarks.  I

         3       think I see this as an attempt to solve a real

         4       problem.  We can question the budget, I think

         5       everybody does, and this is a real attempt to do

         6       something about it.

         7                      But let me ask a couple questions

         8       just to highlight -- this may seem like legal

         9       nitpicking, but just to get a sense of what we

        10       do here.  First of all, Mr. President, what do

        11       you mean by the phrase "entire budget" because

        12       that phrase is used throughout here, and

        13       obviously the word "entire" has some very

        14       significant meaning, because it's not just

        15       budget.

        16                      I believe the Constitution as

        17       it's currently phrased talks about budget bills

        18       but there's no use of the phrase "entire

        19       budget".  What do you mean by that?

        20                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Well, the

        21       budget is comprised of several bills that we

        22       pass that make up the budget.  The bill says

        23       that, if we happen to get to April 1st and we

        24       pass two or three of these bills, that's not

        25       good enough.  We need all of the budget to be







                                                             
5969

         1       passed, all budgets bills, and if we haven't

         2       succeeded in all budget bills, then the entire

         3       or the same budget as last year goes into play.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Now, it's

         5       your definition that the entire budget includes

         6       anything that's demarcated by the Legislature as

         7       a budget bill?

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. If we

        10       were to fail to demarcate it as a budget bill,

        11       for example, we did debt financing and that

        12       wasn't described as a budget bill, but it was

        13       just called debt financing, that wouldn't be

        14       included in the phrase "entire budget"?

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  The entire

        16       budget is the package of bills that make up the

        17       budget each year.  I don't know if we're down to

        18       five or seven or three; I can't remember the

        19       number, but we traditionally do several budget

        20       pieces.  Those are the budget pieces that would

        21       have to all be in place or none of them are in

        22       place as of April 1st.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That's part

        24       of my concern that the Legislature, I mean we

        25       have proven to be really finding ways to breach







                                                             
5970

         1       the Constitution and one of them is to simply

         2       say this isn't a budget bill; it's something

         3       else.  That's one problem.

         4                      What is the -- again through you,

         5       Mr. President, if Senator DeFrancisco will

         6       yield.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       continues to yield.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This

        13       legislation uses the phrase "inactive".  What

        14       happens if the Governor actually vetoes one of

        15       the budget bills or line item vetoes one of the

        16       budget bills at his own convenience? That means

        17       there is no budget.  We go back to last year's

        18       budget.  If the Legislature fulfilled its

        19       constitutional duty and passed the budget on

        20       March 30th, presented it to the Governor, he

        21       would have, I believe, at least ten days, if not

        22       longer, before he would either have to make any

        23       decision about signing the budget bills or not.

        24       Doesn't that transfer a tremendous amount of

        25       power to the Governor to decide the fate of the







                                                             
5971

         1       budget, substantially more than he's got today?

         2                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Absolutely

         3       not, because if there's a change by the Governor

         4       of what the Legislature wants, it doesn't

         5       happen.  In that case the Legislature has the

         6       power.  In other words, the Legislature is going

         7       to have a budget that the Governor doesn't go

         8       along with.  If the three parties can't agree

         9       entirely on what the budget is, it goes back to

        10       last year, and the point I want to emphasize is

        11       the purpose of this is to make certain that each

        12       of the three major -- both houses and the

        13       Governor do come up with an agreement in time.

        14       Presumably nobody wants to go back to last

        15       year.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        17       you, Mr. President -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?

        20                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       continues to yield.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Does this

        24       amendment make any provision for the Legislature

        25       acting on April 2nd, for example?  As I







                                                             
5972

         1       understand it, this says if you don't act by

         2       April 1st, we'll continue to spend on April 2nd,

         3       just as though it was April 2nd of the preceding

         4       year, just as though the preceding year's budget

         5       was in effect.

         6                      Does the Legislature, under this

         7       amendment, have the ability on April 2nd to pass

         8       a budget that would be effective for that year?

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No, it

        10       doesn't, because it talks about adopting an

        11       entire budget.  Once we have adopted a budget,

        12       it becomes the budget.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        14       you, Mr. President, the Legislature every year

        15       has the ability to amend the budget at any point

        16       in mid-stream, as I believe before you and I

        17       both came here in 1991 as you recall, Governor

        18       Cuomo line item vetoed a series of things

        19       creating a significant problem in the latter

        20       part of 1991.  School aid was reduced and

        21       several other adjustments were done.

        22                      All of those were budget changes

        23       inside the year.  Would those changes be

        24       permissible under this Constitutional Amendment?

        25                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  The way I







                                                             
5973

         1       read the amendment, no.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So we're

         3       talking -

         4                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Because if

         5       it worked that way and my intent is not to have

         6       it work that way, we could be in the same

         7       problem that we are presently, namely to go back

         8       to last year's budget, continue to negotiate in

         9       the same give and take, and we'll never have a

        10       real budget.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        12       you, Mr. President, if Senator DeFrancisco will

        13       continue to yield.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       DeFrancisco, you continue to yield?

        16                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       continues to yield.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I read it

        20       exactly that way but it does prohibit the

        21       Legislature from crafting a budget after April

        22       1st for that budget year, but is it your

        23       intention to significantly constrict the hands

        24       of the Legislature to make mid-year course ad

        25       justments in the budget based on change in







                                                             
5974

         1       financial circumstances such as we saw in 1991?

         2       We could have a budget that extends in a boom

         3       period as we're going into a serious recession

         4       or depression and yet we wouldn't have the

         5       ability to reduce spending to be able to try to

         6       buttress or support the state as the economic

         7       slide begins.

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  That's

         9       correct, and that's all the more reason for the

        10       budget to be done in place because that's a risk

        11       that we as legislatures -- legislators and the

        12       Governor as a governor would be taking if we

        13       didn't take our jobs seriously and, secondly, it

        14       also goes the other way.  If we have a boom year

        15       that everyone wants to spend more, we wouldn't

        16       be able to do that.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.

        18                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Because we

        19       didn't do our job.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I'm not so

        21       much worried about that because if we didn't

        22       spend we'd have a huge surplus at the end of the

        23       year that we could delay our spending.  I'm more

        24       concerned about digging ourselves into a hole if

        25       economic, conditions go downward.







                                                             
5975

         1                      Just two other quick questions if

         2       Senator DeFrancisco continues to yield.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         4       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield to two

         5       more quick questions?

         6                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       continues to yield.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What happens

        10       if we have a circumstance where we have to build

        11       a prison halfway through the year and in the

        12       fiscal year, half of the state's debt service

        13       comes on board and half of the employee cost

        14       comes on board.  If this amendment were

        15       effective and there were no budget in place,

        16       then we'd have to face the new fiscal year with

        17       a year's worth of personnel costs and a year's

        18       worth of debt costs and no revenue or presumably

        19       no resilience to balance our revenues with our

        20       expenses.  We would find our expenses are up to

        21       the full year but the previous year we only

        22       budgeted half a year's worth of expense.

        23                      How do we pay for that extra

        24       half? How do -- how do we do that if your

        25       amendment becomes law?







                                                             
5976

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Well,

         2       presumably debt service gets paid down from time

         3       to time and I would assume there would be

         4       savings as well as increases possibly in debt

         5       service coming on line halfway through the

         6       year.  Also, you know, the Governor doesn't

         7       necessarily spend everything that's been

         8       appropriated in every -- in every line item, and

         9       there would have to be some adjustments made in

        10       that respect as the Governor does now.  A

        11       surplus could be -- you'd have to find the money

        12       some place.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. A final

        14       question, Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?

        17                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I do.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  He

        19       continues to yield.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  We have done

        21       extenders and Article 7s in the budget bills.

        22       Could we do an interim extension of this bill?

        23       Could we do a one-year extender for these kinds

        24       of bills that would qualify as a part of a

        25       budget, the entire budget?







                                                             
5977

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  A one-year

         2       extender?

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Or even a

         4       periodic extender as we've done this year.

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  A periodic

         6       extender of last year's budget?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  No.  April

         9       1st comes around, you don't have a budget, you

        10       go to last year's budget in its entirety.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  A final

        12       question, Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Absolutely.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       continues to yield.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  How do we

        19       handle the problem, Senator, of phased-in tax

        20       cuts?  As you know, we have phased-in tax cuts.

        21       This year, as you know, we have passed cuts -

        22       major cuts in business taxes which, by law, will

        23       be implemented this year.  If we had an

        24       automatic budget, we would have last year's

        25       budget with this year's tax cut created in a







                                                             
5978

         1       previous year, and we'd have a significantly

         2       reduced revenue on our expense base.

         3                      How do we -- how do we handle

         4       that if we don't have the budget in place?

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Well, you

         6       have to honor -- I would assume you have to

         7       honor every passed bill that was in place, and

         8       it would seem to me that if you could not honor

         9       that tax cut because of a lack of revenue, the

        10       only way you could do it is -- the only way this

        11       Legislature could possibly do it is either hope

        12       for additional revenue because we get more

        13       revenue in place to take care of that tax cut

        14       and if there's not enough revenue we'd have to

        15       repeal part of it.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  All right.

        17                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  But once

        18       again, I just want to conclude by saying we

        19       could come up with 18 different -- we already

        20       have maybe 20 more different problems that might

        21       exist.

        22                      The whole point is, because of

        23       these potential problems, that's precisely the

        24       reason why we might be working to get the budget

        25       on time.







                                                             
5979

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I couldn't agree with Senator

         3       DeFrancisco more.

         4                      There are, I understand, any kind

         5       of categorical attempts to set an absolute

         6       deadline and to enforce that deadline and to

         7       create the kind of budget responsibility that I

         8       know you want, that I would like.  I understand

         9       their problems.

        10                      I raise those questions only to

        11       highlight some of them because, as we enter down

        12       this road, if we're going to cut that thing off

        13       on April 1st, I can see enormous potential

        14       complications and they may affect the budgeting

        15       process.  As you know, these negotiations are

        16       enormously difficult, and it may be difficult

        17       for anyone on any side of the fence, given the

        18       way this system has worked in the past ten

        19       years, there may be advantages for one side, not

        20       advantages for the other, disadvantages for the

        21       other.

        22                      This will perhaps complicate the

        23       process, but nonetheless, I'm going to vote for

        24       it because I think that we have to do something,

        25       something to try to drive the message home that







                                                             
5980

         1       what's needed is a sense of getting to

         2       compromise, and this year has been an abysmal

         3       demonstration of our ability to do that, which

         4       is to make the budget compromises work.

         5                      I was in Vermont two week ends

         6       ago, and they got their legislative business

         7       done on time.  It was five minutes of 12:00 the

         8       night they were going to recess, but it was all

         9       done and they'd gotten the budget done, they'd

        10       made it work.

        11                      We, for some reason, can't do it

        12       here in New York. I recognize there're problems.

        13       I'm worried about the problems underlying this

        14       bill, but I think that we've got to start taking

        15       some steps to make this happen.  I would prefer,

        16       quite frankly, Senator DeFrancisco to have these

        17       things done in a Constitutional Convention where

        18       we could all sit down and figure out what the

        19       pros and cons are of setting absolute deadlines

        20       so that we could make absolute budget reform

        21       happen, we could set a deadline and get a budget

        22       done on time.

        23                      That would be my hope, it would

        24       be my preference, but I take this bill for what

        25       it is.  I think it's an attempt to try to change







                                                             
5981

         1       the way we do business here.  It changes the

         2       dynamics, it alters the dynamics, but I think

         3       it's a step at least in the right direction.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Leichter, why do you rise?

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  On the bill.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have a

        10       list going, Senator Leichter.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Nozzolio.

        14                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.  My colleagues, I rise in support of

        16       Senator DeFrancisco's proposal because I think

        17       it is a good faith attempt to right a process

        18       that has been wrong.

        19                      The revisionist historians on the

        20       other side of the aisle, Senator Gold most

        21       notable among them, tend to forget what has

        22       happened over the past three years in terms of

        23       budgets and budget preparation.

        24                      Senator Gold conveniently left

        25       out the fact that when Governor Pataki took







                                                             
5982

         1       office, he inherited a budget that was $5

         2       billion in the red.  Senator Gold conveniently

         3       left out that fact, the fact that we were

         4       destitute through the practices of the past,

         5       that the Governor tried very hard to do whatever

         6       he thought could be done to establish an on-time

         7       budget.

         8                      One of those items was not paying

         9       the legislators.  Some of you may recall that

        10       through the period when the budget was post

        11       April 1st, Governor Pataki, along with others,

        12       did not get paid and that we did not get paid.

        13       That was an attempt to put some urgency into the

        14       process.

        15                      The result was clear.  We had the

        16       latest budget in the history of late budgets.

        17       Why?  Because the political will, particularly

        18       exhibited by the Speaker of the Assembly, was to

        19       establish a record.  The Democrats in the

        20       Assembly, and I'd say the Democrats on -- in

        21       this chamber, very much would like to see

        22       records broken because it's politically

        23       expedient.

        24                      The following year Governor

        25       Pataki's second year in office, he put forth a







                                                             
5983

         1       budget clearly a month earlier than any other

         2       governor had put forth that budget in recent

         3       history.  He put forth the budget around the

         4       middle of December, hoping that the Legislature

         5       having more time to review the proposal would,

         6       in fact, come up with an on-time budget.

         7                      The result was another record

         8       being broken, the latest budget in the history

         9       of late budgets.  Yet two good faith attempts by

        10       the Governor of this state to establish order to

        11       the budget process.  I should also add to the

        12       history, I didn't serve in this body but for two

        13       years under Governor Cuomo, I served ten years

        14       in the state Assembly as a member of the

        15       Minority party and saw the fact that when

        16       Governor Cuomo presented his budget, Assemblyman

        17       Pataki, Assemblyman Nozzolio and Assemblyman

        18       Winner had to sue Governor Cuomo because he

        19       refused to put the budget bill, the budget

        20       language, the Article 7 bill accompanying the

        21       taxes that would accompany the budget.  Governor

        22       Cuomo refused to send up a bill until

        23       legislators sued him.

        24                      Governor Pataki complied with the

        25       law.  He complied with the law by putting the







                                                             
5984

         1       Article 7 bill with his budget proposal and

         2       then, in spite of the political shenanigans

         3       which occurred in those first two years, that we

         4       have seen a product that has reduced taxes

         5       unprecedented in this state.  We've reduced

         6       taxes more in the last two budget cycles than

         7       all the states in the Union put together in

         8       terms of reduction of taxes.

         9                      This year, though, let's look at

        10       what the Assembly has done.  The assembly passed

        11       a budget, yes.  They passed a budget that spends

        12       $5 billion more than Governor Pataki has

        13       proposed.  That's an 11 percent, almost a 12

        14       percent increase in state spending over last

        15       year.

        16                      Do you, my colleagues on the

        17       other side of the aisle, support a 12 percent

        18       increase in state spending? Well, if you do, I

        19       think you'd be -- you certainly have your right

        20       to do so, but I dare say that's not what the

        21       citizens of this state want at this stage -

        22       juncture of our state system.

        23                      The Assembly has not passed

        24       welfare reform.  We are not in compliance with

        25       federal mandates.  There is no criminal justice







                                                             
5985

         1       reform in the Assembly's proposal, including the

         2       need to fill three maximum security prisons in

         3       our state that the Governor has proposed.  I

         4       dare say if we do not build those maximum

         5       security prisons, if we do not solve the prison

         6       overcrowding issue, we will be faced with prison

         7       disturbances and riots across our system.

         8                      There is no billion dollars in

         9       borrowing in the Governor's proposal.  Yet the

        10       Assembly Democrats have passed a bill that

        11       requires $3 billion of borrowing.  I -- I don't

        12       believe that any of the shenanigans that we've

        13       seen in these past three years for perceived

        14       political advantage have made sense.  Governor

        15       Pataki has tried to trust -- to propose

        16       everything that could be thought of to produce

        17       an on-time budget.

        18                      Senator DeFrancisco's effort here

        19       is one that I support.  We understand it is not

        20       a perfect remedy, but it is a good faith attempt

        21       at trying to put the political shenanigans out

        22       of this process and make it much more orderly.

        23                      Senator Gold suggested the

        24       conference committee process.  I support the

        25       conference committee process, but I should







                                                             
5986

         1       hasten to add that that is not a perfect

         2       process.  The federal government -- and I used

         3       to work for the Congress of the United States -

         4       the federal government has the conference

         5       committee process.  It has had the conference

         6       committee process for at least 50 years.

         7                      That conference committee process

         8       has resulted in the federal government not

         9       passing a budget for the last at least two or

        10       three years.  The conference committee process

        11       held out by some as the perfect panacea, is, I

        12       think -- just look at the federal government's

        13       example, and you can see that that perfect

        14       function is not realized and it has not resulted

        15       in on-time budgets at the federal level.

        16                      Senator DeFrancisco, thank you

        17       for your proposal.  I think it's something that

        18       would demonstrate that we in this Legislature

        19       are serious about focusing this budget process,

        20       that the process has been certainly not in

        21       focus.  I dare say rent control had significant

        22       impact on this process this year.  If your bill,

        23       Senator DeFrancisco, was put in place rent

        24       control and other secondary issues would not be

        25       impacting on this budget process.







                                                             
5987

         1                      It's a good proposal, a good

         2       step, and I urge its passage.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Gold, did you wish to speak?

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I just wanted to make a few

         8       points based upon some of the comments that

         9       Senator DeFrancisco made, and I really don't

        10       want us to take our eye off the ball and, while

        11       Senator Dollinger pointed out some problems with

        12       the bill, I don't see that as the main problem.

        13       I think the main problems go back to the fact

        14       that this Senate has refused to act.

        15                      But, Senator DeFrancisco, very

        16       briefly, I remember a few years ago, not that

        17       many years ago, I had 58 sponsors on a bill in

        18       this house, and a man who I loved dearly,

        19       Senator Anderson, said to me, "There's one

        20       signature missing which might be helpful -

        21       mine."  We never passed that bill; 58 people in

        22       this house didn't pass it.

        23                      So when you say there is some

        24       support on the other side, I understand that.  I

        25       understand that, but this is bigger than that,







                                                             
5988

         1       and what do we -- what's the answer you'd like

         2       to give me, Senator DeFrancisco, about two weeks

         3       when there was no requirement at all that we go

         4       through a rent fight because, according to the

         5       newspapers, if you took every Democrat who was

         6       willing to vote to continue the rent laws and

         7       you took the Republicans who said they would

         8       vote for it, all we needed to do was bring it to

         9       a vote.  Your Majority Leader wouldn't do that,

        10       so if one tenant in this state lost one right,

        11       it's all because of your party.  So when you say

        12       to me that there are members on the other

        13       side who are Democrats who support your bill,

        14       that's a far cry from bringing it to the floor

        15       and getting it passed.

        16                      As far as the budget process,

        17       during the reign of Governor Cuomo, we had some

        18       late budgets, no doubt, but it bothered Mario

        19       Cuomo, and he would call meetings and he would

        20       bring people together and he would try and he

        21       would try and he would try, and it didn't work

        22       unfortunately until the budgets were late, but

        23       he tried.

        24                      This governor doesn't care.  I

        25       mean it's -- it's what, 83, '-4, whatever it







                                                             
5989

         1       is.  It doesn't bother him, and that's one of

         2       the problems.  If the Governor was a driving

         3       force to get us a budget, if he insisted on the

         4       leaders being there and holding meetings, you'd

         5       get a budget, but Senator, you're not going to

         6       get a budget when the Governor doesn't care and

         7       when the Majority Leader of the Senate won't

         8       pass a bill.

         9                      The last thing I'm going to say

        10       on the issue of the Governor's attempt not to

        11       pay the Legislature, Senator DeFrancisco, that

        12       would be a travesty.  You want to know why?

        13       Because in those years when the Governor didn't

        14       want to pay us because the budget was late, my

        15       people were saying, Hey, Manny Gold, fight that

        16       budget, and I was doing my job by not allowing

        17       George Pataki to destroy the state with naive

        18       harmful budgets.

        19                      I earn my money every day.

        20       That's what the people sent me here for.  They

        21       didn't send me here to vote for any budget on

        22       time that was destructive.  I can only imagine

        23       as I look around on your side of the aisle that

        24       many of your members feel the same way, because

        25       this year you didn't vote for an on-time







                                                             
5990

         1       budget.

         2                      If it were just an issue of

         3       passing any budget, you'd pass it, but I think

         4       my job as a legislator is to work and work to

         5       get a good budget.  If George Pataki would call

         6       some meetings, five-way meetings, if Senator

         7       Bruno would pass a bill and set up some

         8       conference committees, we would all be doing our

         9       work and we would have a budget; and all that

        10       happens with your bill today, Senator

        11       DeFrancisco, it is a diversion.

        12                      I am told, although I did not

        13       hear this, that at a press conference today a

        14       reporter asked Senator Bruno why he didn't pass

        15       a bill, and he said something to the effect that

        16       it wasn't to his liking.  Now, I don't want to

        17       misquote him, but that's what I was told.  If he

        18       said that, that is an incredible remark.  Since

        19       when doesn't the state Senate pass a budget

        20       because one person says it's not to his liking?

        21                      This is a diversion.  It is well

        22       meant, by a gentleman I respect, but it doesn't

        23       give us a budget.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Leichter.







                                                             
5991

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.  Mr.

         2       President, I think a good argument could be made

         3       that, rather than facilitating the passage of a

         4       budget on time, this amendment to the

         5       Constitution could conceivably delay the passage

         6       of a budget because I could see in an instance

         7       where you have a split Legislature as we have

         8       now, particularly as we had it prior to 1995,

         9       that one house may find it to its advantage to

        10       have last year's budget.  They can just sit

        11       back; they'll hold firm.  They'll never agree to

        12       a new budget.

        13                      I think the -- and I want to

        14       particularly address that to my good friend,

        15       Senator Dollinger, but I see he isn't here.  I

        16       think the point is that any of these mechanical

        17       devisees to try to make government work really

        18       are not effective.  Term limits, initiative and

        19       referendum, I just don't think they work.  You

        20       can't propel democracy by these sort of

        21       strictures and commands and dictates.

        22                      I think what it really comes from

        23       is the culture and, frankly, the culture of our

        24       work here is God awful.  We are a disgrace.  We

        25       are an embarrassment to parliamentary







                                                             
5992

         1       legislative bodies.  I don't know how we got

         2       this way, because I look around and I see

         3       dedicated men and women, intelligent men and

         4       women.  I see them in the other house, but we

         5       have made the process so awful, so ineffective,

         6       so unproductive that we're the laughing stock

         7       not only of this state but we're the laughing

         8       stock of the nation.  We can't get a budget

         9       done.

        10                      So then, Senator DeFrancisco,

        11       with the best of intentions, and other members

        12       say, well, here's a way to try to get the budget

        13       done.  Senator DeFrancisco, it's not -- that's

        14       not going to work.  What we need to do is really

        15       change the way we handle all of our affairs.

        16       Almost not a day passes that there isn't some

        17       newspaper, some reporter, some TV station, some

        18       radio station, that doesn't make fun of us.  And

        19       do you know what? They're correct.  There isn't

        20       hardly a day passes there isn't some editorial

        21       that criticizes us in the harshest of tones.

        22       And do you know what? They're correct.

        23                      You read the editorial, the New

        24       York Times last week, talking about the two

        25       person Legislature.  I don't think anybody would







                                                             
5993

         1       argue against it, and you're not going to

         2       correct that, Senator DeFrancisco, by these sort

         3       of changes of the Constitution.  I wish we

         4       could.

         5                      I think we've got to find it in

         6       ourselves to change the way we do business.  It

         7       wasn't always that way.  I and a few other

         8       members who have been here for many years, can

         9       tell you that there were times when the sort of

        10       rank partisanship that now commands all activity

        11       in the Legislature didn't exist, and it was

        12       possible to get a Majority Leader and a Speaker

        13       to work together.  It was possible to get

        14       committee chairmen to work together.  It was

        15       possible to have members to play a role in the

        16       budget, to play a role in other important

        17       matters that affect their constituents.

        18                      That has changed.  I've said,

        19       just half kiddingly, that we could save a lot of

        20       money for the people in this state.  Instead of

        21       having a 211-member Legislature, we just ought

        22       to have two people.  We'd have a Speaker and a

        23       Majority Leader because, by and large, they make

        24       98 percent of all the decisions anyhow, so

        25       that's really the problem, and the whole process







                                                             
5994

         1       has come down, where nothing is done on time,

         2       because the Speaker, the Majority Leader, they

         3       hold back all the bills that they possibly can,

         4       they have all the arsenals toward the end for

         5       the bargaining that goes on, and then we find

         6       suddenly at the end of the session all sorts of

         7       bills coming out.  No participation of members,

         8       no public airing, and so on.

         9                      That's what the problem is, and

        10       frankly, we have it in our power, you don't have

        11       to go to the people of the state of New York and

        12       say, change the Constitution to make us work

        13       effectively.  We can do it.  We can just decide

        14       as Majority members, as Minority members, and I

        15       don't want to say that this is all the

        16       Republicans are faulted, they're not, nor are

        17       all the Democrats.  We're all equally at fault.

        18       We've allowed this system to take over and we

        19       need to change it.

        20                      That doesn't mean we'll

        21       necessarily have a budget on time, but at least,

        22       if we open up the process, I think we're going

        23       to find that it's going to move a lot smoother

        24       and a lot better, and I think the public will be

        25       more satisfied.  I think the same situation was







                                                             
5995

         1       certainly true on the rent laws and, while we

         2       have stood up here last week and talked of

         3       winners and losers and so on, maybe everybody

         4       was a loser because of the process which I think

         5       just dragged and dragged out the entire issue

         6       and made it much more difficult to come to a

         7       reasonable solution.

         8                      So let's change the way we do

         9       business.  We have the power right here to do

        10       it, 211 legislators elected by the public.  We

        11       don't have to go and say, let's change the

        12       Constitution.  We can do it right here.  Senator

        13       DeFrancisco, as good a try as it is, these

        14       mechanical devices, unfortunately, just don't

        15       work.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will call the roll on the resolution.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        20       the results.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        22       the negative on Calendar Number 1335 are

        23       Senators Gentile, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery,

        24       Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Smith and

        25       Stavisky.  Ayes 47, nays 9.







                                                             
5996

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       DeFrancisco, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  To explain

         4       my vote.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

         7                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.  It's

         8       been suggested here that we have the power

         9       ourselves to make these things happen and to

        10       make a good budget occur on time.  I'd like to

        11       think that was the case as well, but we're in

        12       our 14th year, and it hasn't happened.

        13                      There's nothing at all partisan

        14       about this bill.  The bill is supported by

        15       Assembly members, Majority Assembly members and

        16       I know Minority Assembly members as well.  What

        17       Senator Gold says is true.  Sheldon Silver and

        18       Mike Bragman hold the cards as to whether that

        19       bill goes on the floor for a vote.  If the

        20       people demand it, it will, and there will be a

        21       remedy since we have not been able to do it

        22       under the current rules.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the

        25       affirmative.  Announce the results again.







                                                             
5997

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47, nays 9.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Senator Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Return to

         6       Calendar Number 1045, regular order.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read Calendar Number 1045 and continue in

         9       regular order.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1045, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3649-B, an

        12       act to amend the Limited Liability Company Law,

        13       the Partnership Law and the Business Corporation

        14       Law.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay aside.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        17       bill aside.

        18                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        21       believe Senator Volker will give an explanation

        22       for Calendar Number 1045.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Oppenheimer, why do you rise?

        25                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I would







                                                             
5998

         1       like to note that, if I had been present in the

         2       chamber yesterday when Calendar Number 490 -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Oppenheimer, we're on a bill right now and we'll

         5       complete this, and we'll come back to you.

         6                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Oh, sorry.

         7       I got mixed up with what was happening here.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Volker, for an explanation here.

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        11       this is not exactly my field but, as I

        12       understand this bill, Senator Marchi's bill,

        13       what it would do is it would allow business

        14       corporations to use certain words in their true

        15       names.  What I guess the bill does is that

        16       presently under the limited partnership law, you

        17       cannot -- or Limited Liability Company Law, you

        18       cannot do the same thing that you can do in

        19       other areas using assumed names.

        20                      What this bill would do would be

        21       to apply the rules, basically the rules that are

        22       used in the Business Corporation Law to -- the

        23       same rules to the Limited Liability Company Law,

        24       and would clarify the use of these assumed

        25       names.  It would also expand the list of







                                                             
5999

         1       individuals who would be able to sign a

         2       certificate of assumed name to include an

         3       attorney-in-fact as far as these limited

         4       liability corporations are concerned.

         5                      I understand one question was

         6       about the fees that are listed in this bill, but

         7       it's my understanding that this doesn't really

         8        -- there are already fees, but because the

         9       filing fees under the limited liability law are

        10       $200 and $25 under the normal assumed name law,

        11       this would increase it to $200 to comply with

        12       the statute the way it is in other areas.  O.K.?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any

        14       Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Secretary

        15       will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 22.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print Number







                                                             
6000

         1       4767-A, an act to amend the Business Corporation

         2       Law, in relation to the organization of

         3       professional service corporations.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Senator Volker.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Volker, Senator Skelos has informed us that

         8       you're going to do the explanation on the 1082,

         9       Calendar Number 1082, Senator Marchi's bill; is

        10       that correct?

        11                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        12       as I understand this legislation, reading the -

        13       reading this memo here, the legislation involves

        14       a change in the Business Corporation Law, which

        15       would allow an individual authorized by law to

        16       practice before the United States Patent and

        17       Trademark to organize a professional service

        18       corporation with an attorney, for the purpose of

        19       rendering professional services which are

        20       limited to practice before the United States

        21       Patent and Trademark Office.

        22                      I guess what that means is that

        23       for some reason an attorney is not allowed to

        24       organize a professional service organization if

        25       he also practices before the United -- United







                                                             
6001

         1       States Patent and Trademark Office, so I guess

         2       this bill would allow him to do that under the

         3       Business Corporation Law.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you very

         7       much.

         8                      If Senator Volker would yield for

         9       a question.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Volker, do you yield?

        12                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Certainly.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       yields.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, I

        16       understand that you're explaining the bill and

        17       my question just as it related to prohibition

        18       against lawyers and non-lawyers practicing

        19       together, I can't see how this bill doesn't

        20       violate that provision even though perhaps I

        21       might concede that in this particular area as

        22       probably in other areas people could obtain the

        23       expertise in the area in order to discuss it,

        24       but from the public perspective, we appear here

        25       to have a case where you just have lawyers and







                                                             
6002

         1       non-lawyers and it's not distinguishable at what

         2       point they're serving in those capacities.

         3                      Do you think that this

         4       examination for patents can be comparable to a

         5       bar exam?

         6                      SENATOR VOLKER:  I don't think -

         7       yeah, I guess what it is, is it's like a

         8       separate bar exam that attorneys and non

         9       attorneys have to take because this is -

        10       remember, this is a federal agency and the

        11       United States Patent and Trademark Office is a

        12       separate entity.

        13                      Apparently what this bill would

        14       do is allow, as I say, as I mentioned before,

        15       attorneys, it would allow attorneys and non

        16       attorneys to practice before this agency if they

        17       were -- they took the examination which I guess

        18       would be like a bar examination.  My colleague

        19       here says it is a bar examination, which would

        20       allow them to practice before the -- the federal

        21        -- federal Patent and Trademark Office.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Paterson.

        24                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        25       President, and thank you, Senator Volker, for







                                                             
6003

         1       pinch-hitting and responding to the questions

         2       right here.

         3                      On the bill, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson, on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Just a couple

         7       of issues.

         8                      The Bar Association did not come

         9       out with a memorandum on this -- on this bill.

        10       There are several ethics opinions in which it

        11       was made pretty clear that lawyers are forbidden

        12        -- forbidden to practice with non-lawyers.  I'd

        13       just like to put that into the record.

        14                      The concern also is that, when we

        15       finish with the patent area, we'll probably go

        16       into the trademark area and then who knows,

        17       labor law and tax law, particularly areas where

        18       there are specialties that people in other areas

        19       have obtained, and so I think the profession

        20       needs to be aware of this.

        21                      I myself don't know the specifics

        22       of what the patent situation would entail and,

        23       therefore, can't really render an opinion, but

        24       just as a general issue, I just suggest in the

        25       future to the bar -- to the Bar Association that







                                                             
6004

         1       they peruse this whole issue a little closer.

         2                      Now, I don't know that we can

         3       consider the examination to be a bar exam for

         4       patents, the one that's going to be administered

         5       because it's not part of the bar exam, and those

         6       are just some concerns that I wanted to put on

         7       the record and hope that the sponsors will -

         8       will heed them.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        17       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        19       the negative on Calendar Number 1082, Senators

        20       Connor, Montgomery and Paterson.  Ayes 53, nays

        21       3.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1159, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 317-A, an







                                                             
6005

         1       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

         2       policy coverage for persons with breast cancer.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Skelos, an explanation of Calendar Number 1159

        12       has been requested.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  This bill would

        14       prevent insurers from refusing to issue or renew

        15       any policy of life or non-cancellable disability

        16       insurance solely on the basis of genetic testing

        17       used to determine a genetic predisposition to

        18       breast cancer.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Dollinger.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I believe

        24       there's an amendment at the desk that deals with

        25       genetic testing.  I'd ask that the reading of







                                                             
6006

         1       the amendment be waived and that I ask to be

         2       heard on the bill.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       reading of the amendment will be waived and

         5       you're recognized for the opportunity to explain

         6       the amendment, Senator Dollinger.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you

         8       very much, Mr. President.

         9                      First of all, I appreciate

        10       Senator Skelos bringing his bill to the floor

        11       because this deals with the critical issue

        12       involving the use of genetic information,

        13       genetic testing in this case, the bill, the

        14       underlying bill, the question of genetic test

        15       results, and to what extent in Senator Skelos'

        16       bill a disability insurance company or a life

        17       company may use genetic testing results to

        18       determine whether or not the person is going to

        19       be covered or conditions of coverage.

        20                      What this amendment seeks to do

        21       is to broaden the intent of Senator Skelos'

        22       bill, and it does it in four areas.  First of

        23       all, it includes health insurance, that it

        24       simply shouldn't be life insurance and

        25       disability insurance, but it should include







                                                             
6007

         1       health insurance as well.

         2                      Secondly, it includes the scope

         3       of what information can be used.  Senator

         4       Skelos' bill simply says the results of genetic

         5       testing.  The amendment says any genetic

         6       information, whether it comes through testing,

         7       through family trees, through other

         8       information.  That information cannot be used as

         9       the basis to deny someone coverage.

        10                      Three, Senator Skelos' bill has a

        11       limited prohibition because under the amendment

        12       the version that -- that Senator Skelos brings

        13       to the floor today, in amending his bill he

        14       added a section (b) which says that there are

        15       certain instances in which the company can use,

        16       I believe the phraseology is screening

        17       acceptable underwriting procedures.

        18                      If they can demonstrate that the

        19       use of the genetic testing results would be -

        20       create a justifiable exception under

        21       conventional underwriting techniques, then under

        22       those circumstances the prohibition on the use

        23       of genetic testing results is not absolute.

        24                      The amendment that I put on the

        25       table creates an absolute prohibition.  It says







                                                             
6008

         1       that under -- regardless of whether, under

         2       normal underwriting techniques, there would be

         3       an exclusion, there is no prohibition -- there

         4       is no provision that says you can create an

         5       exclusion when you have justifiable under

         6       writing techniques.

         7                      So we go further than Senator

         8       Skelos' bill, and I understand that Senator

         9       Skelos' bill, that that specific language may be

        10       the results of negotiations with insurers about

        11       the extent of this bill, but nonetheless, it's

        12       my judgment that the amendment that was put on

        13       from 317 to 317-A actually softens the impact of

        14       Senator Skelos' bill, and I think what we need

        15       to do is firm it up by creating an absolute

        16       prohibition, that we're not going to allow the

        17       provision of underwriting techniques, we're not

        18       going to allow them to kick it into their

        19       screening process and say we've determined that

        20       it would be appropriate to raise premiums for

        21       certain kinds of insurance because of genetic

        22       abnormalities found, whether it's in the result

        23       of testing or elsewise.

        24                      So we have a complete prohibition

        25       on the use of the genetic information of any







                                                             
6009

         1       type.

         2                      The last thing, as I said, ours

         3       includes all genetic information and not simply

         4       information through genetic testing.  Why is

         5       this so critical that we expand the scope of

         6       this bill? The reason is because the gene

         7       mapping project that is under way on this planet

         8       is progressing at an unbelievable rate.  The

         9       ability to trace specific genes for the

        10       development of diseases such as Tay-Sachs

        11       disease, cystic fibrosis, a pre-disposition to

        12       ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, all well documented,

        13       Huntington's disease, another disease that has

        14       been linked to certain forms -- certain genetic

        15       patterns; abnormal -- abnormally high or

        16       catastrophically high cholesterol levels are

        17       also linked to genetic information and, lastly,

        18       they have determined that some forms of early

        19       onset dementia and Alzheimer's can also be

        20       linked to it.

        21                      Recently there was an article, I

        22       believe in the Washington -- New York Post about

        23       the disease implications to women in the Jewish

        24       community, about linkage between certain types

        25       of diseases and cancers that have been largely







                                                             
6010

         1       found in Eastern European Jewish women.  Our

         2       ability to predict certain types of cancer,

         3       certain types of chronic disabling and sometimes

         4       fatal diseases is now linked to the entire gamut

         5       of genetic information.

         6                      So what this amendment seeks to

         7       do, Mr. President, is to expand the scope of

         8       this bill, to take this bill which is, I think,

         9       a good effort to affect breast cancer, but to

        10       increase the scope of diseases that it applies

        11       to, not just breast cancer but linkages to all

        12       forms of chronic and debilitating illness.

        13                      I appreciate Senator Skelos, I

        14       know, comes from one of the highest areas of

        15       incidence of breast cancer in the world in Long

        16       Island, and I know that there have been many

        17       people looking for both environmental and

        18       genetic links to the high incidence of breast

        19       cancer on Long Island, but it seems to me that

        20       if we're going to send a message about the use

        21       of genetic information, we should do it (a) in

        22       one bill; (two) it should be as broad as

        23       possible so that we tell our insurers, life,

        24       disability and health insurers, that we're not

        25       going to allow them to use genetic information







                                                             
6011

         1       to kick them out of the insurance pool, to treat

         2       them differently.

         3                      The whole point of insurance,

         4       large insurance pools, is to say to everyone who

         5       seeks insurance coverage that you're not respon

         6       sible for the risk of your genes.  We as a

         7       society accept those responsibilities

         8       collectively.  The genetic pre-disposition is

         9       not going to be a disqualifying factor and that

        10       whether it's breast cancer, Alzheimer's,

        11       Huntington's disease, Lou Gehrig's disease or

        12       any one of the other number of diseases, the

        13       mere fact that you have it in your genes is not

        14       going to disqualify you from getting into

        15       insurance pools and being able to buy insurance

        16       protection.

        17                      I -- my hope is that this

        18       amendment will be considered by the house.  My

        19       hope is that we will send a clear unmistakable

        20       message to everyone in this state that genetic

        21       information, if we use it against people,

        22       violates a fundamental New York State sense of

        23       fairness and a fundamental sense that we're all

        24       in this big pool together and that we all share

        25       the risks and we're not going to punish anyone







                                                             
6012

         1       for the fact that they happen to have bad

         2       genes.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Does

         4       anybody wish to speak on the amendment?

         5                      Senator Paterson.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      CBS Evening News, on June 22nd,

         9       reported a California case in which an

        10       individual -- several individuals were denied

        11       employment based on genetic testing which found

        12       that they had sickle cell anemia.  These

        13       employees, who were African-Americans sued in

        14       the California State Supreme Court, and the

        15       court held that there was no ban on genetic

        16       testing.  This case is now being appealed to the

        17       United States Supreme Court.  There are several

        18       states that do have bans on genetic testing, so

        19       what Senator Skelos is attempting here today is

        20       quite laudable, but simply needs to be

        21       expanded.

        22                      The issue in terms of breast

        23       cancer is a serious one, but so are the other

        24       ones that would not only deny employment but

        25       perhaps insurance because of the imposition of







                                                             
6013

         1       genetic testing.  It certainly would be an

         2       invasion of what would almost be a private

         3       right, I won't call it that, but I would just

         4       say certainly the pool of individuals that would

         5       be -- that would become eligible for this

         6       genetic testing would certainly be broken down

         7       due to various types of situations such as

         8       Tay-Sachs disease, such as the others that

         9       Senator Dollinger described.

        10                      So I speak wholeheartedly in

        11       favor of the amendment and feel that Senator

        12       Skelos, who certainly had the idea for this,

        13       might want to take this amendment at this

        14       particular time on an issue that seems to have

        15       national significance as more and more people

        16       are being denied and discriminated based on the

        17       results obtained from genetic testing which I

        18       would like to point out are not always correct.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       question is on the amendment.

        21                      Senator Dollinger.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just one

        23       other issue, Mr. President, if I could just be

        24       heard for one second to explain one other aspect

        25       of the amendment.







                                                             
6014

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Dollinger, on the amendment.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

         4       the courtesy, Mr. President.

         5                      This is part of a package of

         6       bills that the Democratic Conference has put

         7       together dealing with issues involving managed

         8       care and the continuing evolution of science in

         9       our health care system.  It's sponsored by many

        10       Democrats.  I know I've spoken to Senator

        11       Paterson about this.  I consider him virtually a

        12       co-sponsor of this amendment, but there are many

        13       other members of the Democratic Conference who

        14       have supported this concept who are on this bill

        15       which I think I carry but many others are

        16       co-sponsors on.

        17                      So this is -- this is, we think,

        18       a cutting edge issue in the relationship between

        19       science and technology, that tells us a lot

        20       about new frontiers and whether that information

        21       will be used for good or for bad.  We support,

        22       at least I support, Senator Skelos saying that

        23       we won't allow this information to be used to

        24       discriminate against those who have breast

        25       cancer or pre-disposition to breast cancer.  I







                                                             
6015

         1       think it should be broadened to meet the other

         2       conditions that we discussed.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         4       is on the amendment proposed by Senator

         5       Dollinger.  All those in favor signify by saying

         6       aye.

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote in

         8       the affirmative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will call the roll.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Party vote in

        12       the negative.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 24, nays 33,

        14       party vote.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       amendment is lost.  Senator Paterson, why do you

        17       rise, to debate the bill?

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I wanted to

        19       know who won.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect in 180 days.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6016

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Oppenheimer, do you rise to explain your vote on

         4       this bill?

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I had hoped

         6       to be recognized before the vote was taken, a

         7       simple question of the sponsor.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Roll call

         9       will be withdrawn.

        10                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Skelos, do you yield to a question from Senator

        13       Oppenheimer?  The Senator yields.

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'm just

        15       questioning -- of course, I'm thrilled that

        16       you're doing this on breast cancer.  That's

        17       certainly an area that I'm very concerned

        18       about.  But why was it not done for other

        19       illnesses? We have information coming out that

        20       the -- the testicular and prostate cancer are

        21       also very involved in the pesticide law that we

        22       passed.  Why -- why don't you have other

        23       illnesses involved here?

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Because

        25       currently under New York State law enacted in







                                                             
6017

         1       1993, which I believe you supported, prohibits

         2       insurers from refusing to issue or renew these

         3       types of policies for individuals who have had

         4       breast cancer providing that the initial

         5       diagnosis occurred at least three years prior to

         6       the date of application and that a doctor has

         7       certified the disease has not reoccurred since,

         8       so this is a logical next step in terms of the

         9       advances with genetic testing.

        10                      Reading from the New England

        11       Journal of Medicine, it says breast cancer is

        12       the most common cancer among women in the

        13       western world, with a cumulative lifetime risk

        14       of one in eight.  The organizations that I have

        15       met with, ONE in NINE, I felt it appropriate to

        16       advance this legislation.  Certainly in the

        17       future, we would be happy to consider an

        18       expansive -- an expansion of this type of

        19       legislation.

        20                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank you.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        22       will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect in 180 days.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
6018

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1355, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5537, an

         8       acted to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

         9       Law, in relation to creating a new class of

        10       license.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Explanation was

        16       asked for.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Pardon?

        18                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I believe I

        19       heard Senator Paterson ask for an explanation.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Paterson, did you ask for an explanation of

        22       Calendar Number 1355?

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, I did.

        24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  The two Ps have

        25       asked for an explanation.







                                                             
6019

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Goodman, I guess an explanation of Calendar

         3       Number 1355 has been requested by Senator

         4       Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR GOODMAN: This proposal is

         6       geared toward assisting businesses that are

         7       primarily restaurants who wish to brew some beer

         8       and sell most of it in their restaurants.  It is

         9       not intended as a means to allow brewers

        10       backdoor entry into the restaurant business.

        11                      The proposal contemplates modest

        12       mini-change.  A maximum of five of these

        13       micro-breweries is permissible and modest

        14       brewing, no more than 5,000 barrels of beer per

        15       year per brew pub and no more than an aggregate

        16       of 20,000 barrels per year per multiple license

        17       holder.  This compares to 60,000 which is now

        18       permitted of a single micro-brewer.

        19                      Moreover, the bill permits only

        20       an minuscule amount of beer, that's only 250

        21       barrels a year per brew pub, an aggregate of

        22       2,000 barrels a year for multiple license

        23       holders, to be sold to other retailers or to the

        24       public in their home.

        25                      Finally, the bill provides that a







                                                             
6020

         1       person who has an interest in a brew pub cannot

         2       have an interest in other premises in New York

         3       where alcoholic beverages are manufactured or

         4       sold.  A brew pub owner cannot be interested in

         5       a New York brewer, a New York alcoholic beverage

         6       wholesaler or any type of alcoholic beverage

         7       retailer except another brew pub.

         8                      In summary, this proposal would

         9       promote the brew pub business without having any

        10       real impact on the three-tier alcoholic

        11       distribution system now in effect in the state

        12       of New York.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        16       we were concerned about the supplemental retail

        17       license aspect of this bill, which Senator

        18       Goodman might want to comment on.

        19                      The fact is that it would pretty

        20       much enable the restaurant which becomes, in

        21       effect, a brewery and also at the same time

        22       becomes a distributor, to actually make its own

        23       perhaps beer in this case and sell it off the

        24       premises, but we've gotten, I think, a pretty

        25       good understanding and want to thank Senator







                                                             
6021

         1       Goodman and Commissioner Casales for their

         2       effort in this area.

         3                      If Senator Goodman would yield

         4       for a question.

         5                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes, I will.

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I just want to

         7       be assured that the 500-foot rule which bans the

         8       fourth establishment from being allowed to exist

         9       within 500 feet of the three other

        10       establishments will be adhered to based on the

        11       language of this bill.

        12                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes, I can give

        13       you absolute assurance that this makes no change

        14       in that provision.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                       ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        24       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays







                                                             
6022

         1       one, Senator Padavan recorded in the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      Senator Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         6       if we could return to reports of standing

         7       committees.  I believe there's a report of the

         8       Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be

         9       read.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        11       return to the order of reports of standing

        12       committees.  I'll ask the Secretary to read the

        13       report of the Rules Committee.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

        15       from the Committee on Rules, offers up the

        16       following bills:

        17                      1086-A, by Senator Velella, an

        18       act to amend the Public Health Law;

        19                      2288-A, by Senator Sampson, an

        20       act to authorize the city of New York;

        21                      2668, by Senator LaValle, an act

        22       to amend the Town Law;

        23                      4021-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an

        24       act to amend the Social Services Law;

        25                      4386-A, by Senator Farley, an act







                                                             
6023

         1       to amend the Banking Law;

         2                      4500, by Senator Tully, an act to

         3       amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act;

         4                      4525, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

         5       amend the Social Services Law;

         6                      4728, by Senator Velella, an act

         7       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

         8                      4834-A, by Senator Johnson, an

         9       act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

        10                      4860-B, by Senator Cook, an act

        11       to amend the General Business Law;

        12                      5098, by Senator Skelos, an act

        13       to amend Chapter 879 of the Laws of 1936;

        14                      5103-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act

        15       to amend Chapter 683 of the Laws of 1995;

        16                      5268-A, by Senator Levy, an act

        17       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        18                      5370, by Senator LaValle, an act

        19       to amend the Education Law;

        20                      5374-A, by Senator Montgomery, an

        21       act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

        22                      5416, by Senator Levy, an act to

        23       amend the Penal Law;

        24                      5432, by Senator Levy, an act to

        25       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;







                                                             
6024

         1                      5490, by the Committee on Rules,

         2       an act to amend the Tax Law;

         3                      5491, by the Committee on Rules,

         4       an act to amend the Tax Law;

         5                      5492-A, by Senator Johnson, an

         6       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law;

         7                      5506, by the Committee on Rules,

         8       an act in relation to granting Tier I status;

         9                      5508, by Senator Marchi, an act

        10       to amend the Public Health Law;

        11                      5513, by Senator Levy, an act to

        12       amend the Public Authorities Law;

        13                      5514, by Senator Levy, an act to

        14       amend Chapter 56 of the Laws of 1993;

        15                      5523, by Senator Goodman, an act

        16       to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;

        17                      5535, by Senator Rath, an act to

        18       authorize the town of Amherst;

        19                      5539, by the Committee on Rules,

        20       an act to amend Chapter 904 of the Laws of 1984;

        21                      5540, by the Committee on Rules,

        22       an act to amend Chapter 535 of the Laws of 1983;

        23                      5542, by Senator Seabrook, an act

        24       authorizing the city of New York;

        25                      5566-A, by Senator Levy, an act







                                                             
6025

         1       to authorize the incorporated village of Free

         2       port;

         3                      5567, by Senator Saland, an act

         4       to authorize the Commissioner of General

         5       Services;

         6                      5582, by Senator Tully, an act to

         7       amend the Public Authorities Law;

         8                      5595, by Senator Santiago, an act

         9       to authorize the Office of General Services;

        10                      5596, by the Committee on Rules,

        11       an act to amend Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991;

        12       and

        13                      5603, by Senator Tully, an act to

        14       certify, legalize and confirm.

        15                      All bills directly for third

        16       reading.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept

        20       the report of the Rules Committee.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        22       to accept the report of the Rules Committee.

        23       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye.")

        25                      Opposed nay.







                                                             
6026

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      The report is accepted.  All

         3       bills moved directly to third reading.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         5       is there any housekeeping?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is,

         7       Senator Skelos, we could take that at this time

         8       if we could return to the general order of

         9       motions and -

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, and there

        11       will be a meeting of the Rules Committee in the

        12       Majority Conference Room at 5:00 o'clock.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        14       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        15       Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules

        16       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room

        17       332.

        18                      Senator Abate, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  I ask

        20       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        21       on Calendar Number 1335, and I have an

        22       additional motion.  There is a resolution -

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Abate, let me take that one first.

        25                      SENATOR ABATE: Yes.







                                                             
6027

         1                      ACTRING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         2       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Abate

         3       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         4       Number 1335.

         5                      Senator Abate.

         6                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  On

         7       Resolution 1916 which I sponsored, which is a

         8       resolution paying tribute to Jim Fox, who was

         9       the New York Regional Director of the FBI, and

        10       I'd like to open that up to the entire Senate

        11       for anyone who would like to co-sponsor that

        12       resolution, or we can do it in the reverse,

        13       anyone who does not wish to go on it.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  If anyone wishes

        15       to co-sponsor the resolution, they should notify

        16       the desk.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  O.K. O.K.

        18       Because the resolution has been adopted, there

        19       is a special form that members will have to fill

        20       out, so we'd ask the members to identify

        21       themselves to the desk.

        22                      Senator Breslin.

        23                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Mr. President,

        24       I would like to be in the negative by unanimous

        25       consent on Calendar Number 1082.







                                                             
6028

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         2       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Breslin

         3       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         4       Number 1082.

         5                      We'll return to the order of

         6       motions and resolutions.

         7                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         8       Marcellino.

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                      On behalf of Senator Wright, on

        12       page number 35, I offer the following amendments

        13       to Calendar Number 1065, Senate Print Number

        14       4322-B, and ask that said bill retain its place

        15       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       Amendments to Calendar Number 1065 are received

        18       and adopted, and the bill will retain its place

        19       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        20                      Senator Marcellino.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                      On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on

        24       page number 18, I offer the following amendments

        25       to Calendar Number 608, Senate Print Number







                                                             
6029

         1       2775-A, and ask that said bill retain its place

         2       on the Third Reading Calendar.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments to Calendar Number 608 are received

         5       and adopted, and the bill will retain its place

         6       on the Third Reading Calendar.

         7                      Senator Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      On behalf of Senator Goodman, on

        11       page number 22, I offer the following amendments

        12       to Calendar Number 719, Senate Print Number

        13       5031-A, and ask that said bill retain its place

        14       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Amendments to Calendar Number 719 are received

        17       and adopted and the bill will retain its place

        18       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        19                      Senator Marcellino.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                      I wish to call up Senator Skelos'

        23       bill, Print Number 4314-A recalled from the

        24       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6030

         1       will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       899, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         4       Print 4314-A, an act to amend the Tax Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Marcellino.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         8       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

         9       which this bill was passed.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        13       reconsideration.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marcellino.

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now offer

        18       the following amendments.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Amendments are received and adopted.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Holland.

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Could we read

        25       the title and adopt Resolution Number 1932,







                                                             
6031

         1       Senator Nozzolio's resolution, please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the title of the privileged Resolution

         4       Number 1932.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         6       Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution 1932,

         7       commemorating the 50th Anniversary of the Ovid

         8       Veterans of Foreign Wars Post Number 6200 Ladies

         9       Auxiliary.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        11       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

        12       signify by saying aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The resolution is adopted.

        17                      Senator Gentile, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR GENTILE:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  I would ask for unanimous consent to

        20       be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

        21       1082.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gentile

        24       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        25       Number 1082.







                                                             
6032

         1                      Senator Abate, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  I ask for unanimous consent to be

         4       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         5       1082.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Abate

         8       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         9       Number 1082.

        10                      Senator Oppenheimer, why do you

        11       rise?

        12                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I would

        13       like the record to reflect that if I had been

        14       present yesterday in the Assembly, in the

        15       Senate, I -- where am I? -- that I would have

        16       voted against Calendar Number 491.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       record will reflect, Senator Oppenheimer, that

        19       had you been in the chamber yesterday when a

        20       vote was taken on Calendar Number 491, that you

        21       would have voted in the negative.

        22                      Senator Holland.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        24       can we do the non-controversial calendar on the

        25       Supplemental Calendar, please.







                                                             
6033

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Seabrook.

         3                      SENATOR SEABROOK:  Mr. President,

         4       with unanimous consent, I would like to be

         5       recorded in the negative on bill 1082.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

         8       Seabrook will be recorded in the negative on

         9       Calendar Number 1082.

        10                      The Secretary will now read -

        11       Senator Sampson.  I'm sorry.

        12                      SENATOR SAMPSON:  Mr. President,

        13       may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in

        14       the negative on bill 1082.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        16       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Sampson

        17       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        18       Number 1082.

        19                      The Secretary will read the

        20       non-controversial reading of Supplemental

        21       Calendar Number 58-A, beginning on the first

        22       page, Calendar Number 1359, by Senator Velella.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1359, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1086-A,

        25       an act to amend the Public Health Law, in







                                                             
6034

         1       relation to applications.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1361, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2668, an

        14       act to amend the Town Law, in relation to

        15       authorizing.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        17       a home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

        18       will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
6035

         1       is passed.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1362, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4021-A,

         4       an act to amend the Social Services Law and the

         5       Education Law, in relation to enacting.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

         9       act shall take effect September 1.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1363, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4386-A, an

        18       act to amend the Banking Law.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        21       bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1364, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4500, an

        24       act to amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure

        25       Act, in relation to the continuation.







                                                             
6036

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1366, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4728, an

        13       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        14       Law, in relation to making certain technical

        15       corrections.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
6037

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1367, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4834-A,

         3       an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,

         4       in relation to creating.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1368, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4860-B, an

        10       act to amend the General Business Law and the

        11       Public Health Law, in relation to prepayment.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the first day of

        16       November.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1369, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5098, an

        25       act to amend Chapter 879 of the Laws of 1936.







                                                             
6038

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay it aside

         2       for the day, please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         4       bill aside for the day.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1370, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5103-A, an

         7       act to amend Chapter 683 of the Laws of 1995,

         8       amending the Retirement and Social Security Law.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        15       bill aside.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1371, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 5268-A, an

        18       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        19       relation to private service bureaus.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6039

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1372, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5370, an

         7       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

         8       the duty of school districts.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the first day of

        13       September.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy

        21       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        22       Assembly Bill Number 1986 and substitute it for

        23       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1374.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       substitution is ordered.  The Secretary will







                                                             
6040

         1       read the title.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1374, by member of the Assembly Bragman,

         4       Assembly Print 1986, an act to amend the Penal

         5       Law, in relation to conditions of probation.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Levy

        17       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        18       Assembly Bill Number 6244 and substitute it for

        19       identical Third Reading Calendar 1375.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       substitution is ordered.  The Secretary will

        22       read the title.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1375, by member of the Assembly Gantt, Assembly

        25       Print 6244, an act to amend the Vehicle and







                                                             
6041

         1       Traffic Law and Chapter 713 of the laws of 1988.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

         3       last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1378, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5492-A,

        14       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        15       relation to granting a partial exemption.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the second day of

        20       January.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1379, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate







                                                             
6042

         1       Print 5506, an act in relation to granting Tier

         2       1 status.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last -

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1381, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5508, an

        10       act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation

        11       to the use by health care providers.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bless

        17       you.  Call the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1385, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5535, an act

        24       authorizing the town of Amherst, county of Erie.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's a







                                                             
6043

         1       home rule message at the desk.  The Secretary

         2       will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1386, by Senate Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        13       5539, an act to amend Chapter 904 of the Laws of

        14       1984.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6044

         1       1387, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         2       Print 5540, an act to amend Chapter 535 of the

         3       Laws of 1983.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1390, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5567, an

        16       act to authorize the Commissioner of General

        17       Services to sell and convey.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.







                                                             
6045

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       1391, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5582, an

         5       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

         6       relation to the powers of the Water Authority.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1393, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        19       Print 5596, an act to amend Chapter 166 of the

        20       Laws of 1991.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
6046

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1394, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5603, an

         8       act to legalize, certify and confirm the acts of

         9       the Hicksville School District.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      Senator Holland, that completes

        21       the reading of -- the supplemental calendar

        22       non-controversial reading.  What's your

        23       pleasure?

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Could we do the

        25       controversial items on 58-A, Mr. President,







                                                             
6047

         1       please.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the controversial calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1363, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4386-A, an

         6       act to amend the Banking Law, the Tax Law, the

         7       General City Law, the Administrative Code of the

         8       city of New York and the codes and ordinances of

         9       the city of Yonkers.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Farley, an explanation has been requested by

        13       Senator Leichter.

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes.  This bill

        15       would allow limited purpose trust companies to

        16       form and operate themselves as a limited

        17       liability trust company instead of its

        18       corporations.  The option would apply to those

        19       trust companies which do not receive deposits

        20       from the general public and have been exempted

        21       by the Banking Board from the deposit insurance

        22       requirements of the Banking Law.

        23                      A limited liability trust company

        24       would be subject to virtually all the provisions

        25       of the Banking Law which currently is applied to







                                                             
6048

         1       corporate form trust companies.  It would also

         2       be subject to all the provisions of the Limited

         3       Liability Company Law.  If these two laws are

         4       inconsistent, the Banking Law would prevail.

         5                      Now, the Superintendent of Banks

         6       retains all his current authority to regulate

         7       these entities and, in addition, the

         8       Superintendent of Banks is provided with the

         9       express authority to make rules and regulations

        10       to govern limited liability trust companies.

        11                      This bill would authorize the

        12       limited liability company structure from limited

        13       purpose trust companies which do not accept

        14       funds from the general public.

        15                      This alternative business

        16       structure offers many advantages, including the

        17       ability to be taxed as a partnership.  The

        18       limited liability company structure can be

        19       attractive to certain limited purpose trust

        20       companies.  Currently some of these trust

        21       companies have parent entities which are

        22       partnerships.  The requirement to have a stock

        23       form trust company creates a certain structural

        24       inefficiency.  It presents tax and other issues

        25       for these partnerships.  The ability to organize







                                                             
6049

         1       as a limited liability company will allow these

         2       companies to select a business structure which

         3       is most appropriate and efficient and desirable

         4       for their operation.

         5                      This bill is similar to Chapter

         6       637 of 1995 which amended the Banking Law to

         7       allow Article 12 investment companies to

         8       organize themselves as limited liability

         9       companies.

        10                      Now, let me just say as basically

        11       or simply as I can -- and this is not -- this is

        12       kind of an arcane bill, I guess, but the reason

        13       that this is done is to make for a more

        14       efficient form of business operation.

        15                      This bill actually is consistent

        16       with a policy that this Legislature established

        17       in 1994 when New York State authorized the

        18       creation of limited liability companies.  This

        19       Legislature and the state made this judgment

        20       despite the possible loss of revenue and there

        21       is a $300,000 estimate that they all take place

        22       -- take advantage of this loss to the state but

        23       we made that decision that the limited liability

        24       company structure was useful and an attractive

        25       business structure which would help keep New







                                                             
6050

         1       York as a desirable place in which to conduct

         2       business.  They could take a walk as so many

         3       companies, and so forth, has to.  These

         4       companies that are organized as a partnership,

         5       this would allow them to become a limited

         6       liability trust company.

         7                      I've got more if you need it, but

         8       I'll be happy to try to answer questions.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        10       Farley, that was more than enough.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        12       last section.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, no.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Leichter.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  With your

        17       indulgence -

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I

        19       apologize, Senator Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  That's all

        21       right.

        22                      Senator Farley, if you would be

        23       so good enough to yield.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Farley, do you yield to a question from Senator







                                                             
6051

         1       Leichter?

         2                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes, sir.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Senator yields.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I would like

         6       to, for the benefit of our colleagues, cut to

         7       the quick here because you and I have gone

         8       through this both in the Finance Committee and

         9       in the Rules Committee.

        10                      The key aspect of this bill -

        11       I'm sorry.  Let me withdraw that question.  As I

        12       understand it, Senator Farley, there's

        13       approximately five large underwriting brokerage

        14       companies that are going to take advantage of

        15       this.  I think one of them you mentioned was

        16       Goldman Sachs.  I think another one was Lehman

        17       Brothers.  Who are the other ones, Senator, if

        18       you could just inform us of that?

        19                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Brown Brothers &

        20       Harriman Trust Company, Goldman Sachs Trust

        21       Company and Neuburger & Berman Trust Company are

        22       the three biggies.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator -- and

        24       I think you alluded to it in your explanation -

        25       by making this change, these companies are going







                                                             
6052

         1       to get a tax benefit.  It's going to cost the

         2       taxpayers of the state of New York, I believe

         3       the estimate is $300,000, is that right?

         4                      SENATOR FARLEY:  That's correct.

         5       That's if the -- all of them take advantage of

         6       it.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right.

         8       Thank you, Senator Farley.

         9                      Let me just say, I don't know

        10       what we're about.  Here we are, we're going to

        11       give $300,000 to some of the wealthiest, most

        12       profitable brokerage and underwriting and

        13       banking advisors and investors in the state.

        14                      Senator Farley, you know, said

        15       something, well, you know, they could move

        16       away.  Now, wait a second, they're not going to

        17       move to Hoboken or Secaucus.  These are firms

        18       that are here.  These are not firms that are in

        19       trouble.  These are not firms that are doing

        20       poorly.  It's not a big sum of money but the

        21       principle is just awful.

        22                      There's no reason, no

        23       explanation, no justification for this bill

        24       other than to give -- to allow these

        25       underwriters to take advantage of a tax







                                                             
6053

         1       benefit.  Instead of being taxed as

         2       corporations, they're going to be taxed as

         3       limited liability partnerships.  As limited

         4       liability partnerships, they have all the

         5       advantages of a corporation.  Now they also want

         6       to be taxed as a partnership which brings them a

         7       benefit which means that we, the taxpayers, our

         8       constituents, the taxpayers, are going to be

         9       supporting these corporations.

        10                      In some instances, it makes sense

        11       for us to do it, but I submit to you that for

        12       these three or maybe five wealthiest

        13       corporations to say, Oh, we're going to let you

        14       change your form of business arrangement so that

        15       you can take advantage of the Tax Law and pay

        16       less taxes to the state of New York, it just

        17       makes absolutely no sense.  We shouldn't be

        18       doing this.  We don't have the money, Senator

        19       Farley.

        20                      We've got a lot of people that

        21       are needy.  We have a lot of people in New York

        22       State that need help.  We have a lot of sections

        23       of this state that need help, including your

        24       district where unemployment is going up, and I

        25       don't think we should be about at this time







                                                             
6054

         1       increasing the already enormous profits of five

         2       brokerage houses in the city of New York.

         3                      I'm happy that they're making a

         4       lot of money, but I don't have to make them

         5       richer at the expense of the taxpayers of this

         6       state.

         7                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I understand

         8       what you're saying, Senator Leichter, but I

         9       could not disagree with you more.  Let me just

        10       say this.  We're talking about jobs, jobs.  Jobs

        11       that are in your area of the state, basically,

        12       in New York City, the financial capital of the

        13       world.

        14                      Let me just tell you, Goldman

        15       Sachs who you're mentioning as a company that

        16       makes a lot of money -- and I presume that they

        17       do -- their operation, quite frankly, a great

        18       part of it is in London; that's England and you

        19       know what?  They could move this not only out of

        20       the state but out of the country and I'll tell

        21       you something else.  They could go to

        22       Connecticut.  They could go to so many other

        23       places.  You say, Well, they won't go.

        24                      I'll tell you, I could bring you

        25       to some of the communities in my state.







                                                             
6055

         1       Amsterdam used to be the carpet center of the

         2       world, the carpet capital of the world.  There

         3       isn't a carpet in that city.  Every single one

         4       of them left here, every one.  I -- Schenectady

         5       GE used to have 70,000 jobs.  You know how many

         6       they have there now?  5,000.  It's an absolute

         7       depressing situation.

         8                      All this bill does, very simply,

         9       is to allow a partnership organization of

        10       business to organize itself in a more efficient

        11       way and for God's sakes, we don't allow or want

        12       that to happen in New York State?  For heaven's

        13       sake, we want them to pay the most taxes that

        14       they can pay.  Now, if they're organized as a

        15       corporation, they don't have to pay that but if

        16       they happen to be a partnership, they have to

        17       pay it.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        19       would Senator Farley yield?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Farley, do you yield to a question?

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, this

        23       has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency.

        24       They're going to run their operation precisely.

        25       It has solely to do with tax liability, but I







                                                             
6056

         1       want to address the point you made that we're

         2       talking about jobs and that we're in danger of

         3       having these companies move out of the state.

         4                      Senator, do you have any report,

         5       any study which shows the number of jobs that

         6       are going to be created if we pass this bill?

         7                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'm talking

         8       about saving jobs.  Is that important to you,

         9       Senator Leichter?

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, has

        11       anybody said to you, do you have any credible

        12       evidence that any jobs are going to be lost if

        13       we don't pass this bill?

        14                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Nobody has said

        15       to me that it's going to snow this winter in

        16       Albany but it's very evident if we don't do

        17       something like this, it's not going to be a form

        18       of business that they care to carry on in New

        19       York State.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Leichter, are you asking Senator Farley to

        23       yield?

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  -- if you'll

        25       be good enough to continue to yield, Senator.







                                                             
6057

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Farley, do you continue to yield?

         3                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes, I will.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Senator yields.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Am I correct

         7       then that this is your assumption -- your

         8       assumption that unless we do this special

         9       benefit bill, that there's going to be a loss of

        10       jobs in these companies?

        11                      SENATOR FARLEY:  It is my

        12       assumption that we should do this bill to level

        13       the playing field between a corporation and a

        14       partnership that are in exactly the same

        15       operation of business.  I think it's only fair.

        16       I think it's an efficient form of business.  I

        17       think it makes sense and I don't think it's any

        18       great loss.

        19                      You know, the taxes that will be

        20       paid by these employees or this company staying

        21       here are a lot more than $300,000.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Leichter, are you asking -

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just one final

        25       question.







                                                             
6058

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Farley, do you yield to another question?

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  My good friend

         4       Senator Farley.  Then I take it, Senator, that

         5       other than your assumption because it snows in

         6       Albany that these companies may cut jobs if we

         7       don't -- if we don't pass your bill.  You have

         8       no credible evidence whatsoever and that nobody

         9       from these companies has even said to you,

        10       unless you pass this bill, there's going to be a

        11       decline in jobs.  Is that correct?

        12                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Nobody has said

        13       that to me, no, they have not.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  They have not

        16       threatened me, if that's what you're implying.

        17       I do this out of the goodness of my heart and

        18       for what I think is best for the state of New

        19       York, for the economy of this state and for the

        20       people that work for these companies.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        22       I thank Senator Farley and I know that you

        23       always act from the goodness of your heart and

        24       what you think is best for the people of the

        25       state of New York but, Senator Farley, let me







                                                             
6059

         1       tell you, this is such a special interest bill

         2       and so outrageous and so unjustified.  I don't

         3       mind -- if this was really only a matter of

         4       business efficiency, then I would say, Fine,

         5       we'll do it but we'll just provide that they pay

         6       the same amount of taxes as they did as

         7       corporations.  That has nothing to do -- not one

         8       employee is going to be -- in any respect have

         9       his functions or duties changed.  Everything

        10       will be exactly the same in these companies

        11       except they'll set up these limited liability

        12       partnerships and save some money on taxes.

        13                      Now, Senator, if you came before

        14       me and said, I want to do this for one of my

        15       carpet companies in Amsterdam or one of your

        16       companies in Amsterdam, I may say maybe it makes

        17       sense to do it because they're distressed.

        18       They're in trouble.  These companies are not in

        19       trouble.  They're incredibly profitable, thank

        20       goodness.  I'm pleased that they're profitable.

        21       There's not the slightest risk that they're

        22       going to move any of their operation out of the

        23       state of New York.  The fact that they're in

        24       London and Hong Kong and Singapore and other

        25       world financial centers is because that's the







                                                             
6060

         1       nature of their business, but their headquarters

         2       is in New York.  They're going to stay in New

         3       York.  They never said they're going to move.

         4       They never said they're going to change one

         5       job.  They just said to Senator Farley as they

         6       presented this bill, Senator, if we could make

         7       this change in our legal -- in formation, we

         8       would save ourselves some money and, Senator, if

         9       you think that the people of the state of New

        10       York are wealthy enough that we can support and

        11       subsidize these companies and give them a tax

        12       break, you go ahead and do it.

        13                      I'm not going do it.  I think

        14       it's outrageous.  I think it's the worst form of

        15       special interest legislation.  It's always kept

        16       for the end of the legislative session.  Maybe

        17       the only thing good one can say for this

        18       legislation, if it appears before us at this

        19       time, you know that the end of the session isn't

        20       far along.

        21                      Senator, we shouldn't be doing

        22       this.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read the last section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 20.  This







                                                             
6061

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         3       roll.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

         6       the results.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

         8       Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1367, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4834-A,

        13       an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,

        14       in relation to creating an advisory council.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Paterson, did you request an explanation?

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.  Thank

        21       you, Mr. President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Johnson, an explanation of the bill has been

        24       requested.

        25                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,







                                                             
6062

         1       this is a bill in accordance with the suggestion

         2       of the Ag' and Markets Department that it should

         3       have a seafood council which would advise, in

         4       all aspects, a seafood policy, including the

         5       harvesters, the wholesalers, the retailers,

         6       consumers and they would review seafood policy

         7       in the state and make recommendations on an

         8       annual basis about how the seafood policy should

         9       be structured in the state of New York.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Paterson.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        13       a quick question, if the sponsor will yield.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Johnson, do you yield?

        16                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Senator yields.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        21       Johnson, I see here in the bill that there are a

        22       number of appointments that will be made to

        23       fulfill the needs that the bill proposes and my

        24       question simply is I don't see any appointment

        25       powers granted to either the Minority Leader in







                                                             
6063

         1       the Assembly or the Minority Leader in Senate.

         2       Is there any plan to have full participation of

         3       the Legislature in that regard?

         4                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I'm sorry.

         5       What was the question, whether there's

         6       legislative participation in this?  Is that your

         7       question, Senator?

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yeah, by the

         9       Minorities in the Senate and the Assembly, the

        10       conferences.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator,

        12       they're not in here, that's true, and there's no

        13       good reason why they're not in here.  I guess in

        14       this case, I suppose the saving grace is that

        15       the Assembly and the Senate are both represented

        16       and different parties are represented therefor

        17       and I expect a balanced representation in that

        18       respect.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Paterson, did you have further questions?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No.  Thank

        22       you, Mr. President.

        23                      Senator Johnson gave a complete

        24       answer to my question.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6064

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes -

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         9       the negatives and announce the results.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        11       just to explain my vote.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Paterson, to explain his vote.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  There is no

        15       partisanship that compels me to object to this.

        16       It kind of relates to what Senator Leichter was

        17       saying earlier.  Senator Leichter sometimes

        18       thinks no one is listening to him around here

        19       and sometimes he's right but in that particular

        20       case, there really has, in my opinion, got to be

        21       a greater understanding of the fact that just

        22       the two parties doesn't satisfy the real need to

        23       have appointments from the Minority.

        24                      It would be very possible that

        25       one of the parties might win both houses and if







                                                             
6065

         1       we kept this kind of situation, we would not

         2       have participation from a significant number of

         3       representatives who are in the Legislature

         4       representing large numbers of people, and so in

         5       voting no, it's out of no disrespect to the

         6       Majority in this house.  It's just a general

         7       feeling that there should be full participation

         8       at all levels of the Legislature and by all

         9       conferences and, therefore, that better enables

        10       us to have a real representation of all of the

        11       membership.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Announce

        13       the results.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        15       the negative on Calendar Number 1367 are

        16       Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gentile,

        17       Leichter, Montgomery, Onorato and Paterson.

        18       Ayes 50, nays 8.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1370, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5103-A, an

        23       act to amend Chapter 683 of the Laws of 1995.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6066

         1       Trunzo, an explanation has been requested by

         2       Senator Leichter.

         3                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

         4       what this bill does is, as members of this house

         5       know, back in 1993, we passed an administrative

         6       review bill which had to do with all this

         7       individual type of legislation where different

         8       individuals for one thing or another -- the one

         9       bill that Senator Gold constantly refers to as

        10       the Trunzo bill, but at any rate, in 1995, we

        11       amended that bill because originally we wanted

        12       to socialize the cost of the -- you know, the

        13       various independent items and it happened where

        14       there was a case that came up in Senator Cook's

        15       district where the amount of money that the town

        16       had to pay to justify an error that was made way

        17       back when was higher than the town budget and in

        18       June of 1995, we passed legislation to socialize

        19       everything retroactively to 1993 that had been

        20       done in that Section 803 of the Civil Service

        21       Law.

        22                      Now -- what we're doing now is

        23       extending that and making it permanent, so to

        24       speak, to all the sections that are out there

        25       now, all the cases that still have not been







                                                             
6067

         1       resolved even though the window closed in

         2       October.

         3                      So to do that, many of the

         4       municipalities, because of the cost involved,

         5       are not permitting their employees to make the

         6       adjustments that should be made to their pension

         7       systems.  So by socializing it, they will accept

         8       it as it has been done from 1993 to 1995.  Now

         9       we're continuing it on until they satisfy their

        10       employees.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        12       if Senator Trunzo will yield.

        13                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  That's an

        15       interesting euphemism.  We're socializing the

        16       costs.

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Well, the term

        18       "socializing" has been used.  Owen said I'm

        19       getting to be a liberal.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You're asking

        21       somebody to pay somebody's costs and that's

        22       socializing them by spreading the expense

        23       around?

        24                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  This is what we

        25       do with most of our pension legislation bills,







                                                             
6068

         1       where all employers involved share in the cost.

         2       That's called socializing and that's the

         3       terminology that's used, Senator, and what has

         4       happened is that the cost has gone so

         5       astronomical in certain areas where the original

         6       employer, where the error was made, that in

         7       1995, we did change the law to socialize the

         8       cost retroactive to the date of the original

         9       bill which was in 1993 and the only reason it

        10       wasn't socialized originally is because Governor

        11       Cuomo didn't want to do it that way because

        12       that's the way we originally had it.  The Senate

        13       and the Assembly, when we both did that bill

        14       over,  you know, lots of years of work, wanted

        15       the participat... the original employer, period,

        16       to pay the cost of the change that they

        17       themselves made in error.

        18                      So what we're doing is extending

        19       it now from June of 1995 to whatever current

        20       date because of that, I believe close to 4,000

        21       applications that the Comptroller is still

        22       holding onto, the decisions have not been made

        23       to change whatever -- you know, to make their

        24       decisions because the employers -- various

        25       employers will not submit the paperwork even







                                                             
6069

         1       though the applications were made for correction

         2       of their pension problems, would not submit the

         3       paperwork because they figure they're going to

         4       cost them too much money and since we did

         5       socialization once before, we want to continue

         6       to do it again so that these cases can be

         7       resolved.

         8                      There are no further cases open

         9       because the window did close in October of 1996

        10       and there have been no objections to this.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        12       if Senator Trunzo will yield, please.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Senator continues to yield.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, we're

        19       talking about the system that we set up in order

        20       to enable employees to appeal to the Comptroller

        21       if there was some correction that they felt they

        22       needed to make in their pension system and that

        23       -- the expense of that has really run into the

        24       millions?

        25                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  It's run into -







                                                             
6070

         1       a large cost to various employers and, as I

         2       stated before, back in 1995, Senator Cook came

         3       to our office and -- I don't want to give you

         4       the picture, Charlie, but the Senator did come

         5       into the office where a town, to make an

         6       adjustment, cost higher than their town budget

         7       and they couldn't afford to do it and we did the

         8       legislation in June of 1995 that made it

         9       retroactive for all the cases that were on file

        10       up 'til that date and in all fairness now for

        11       any of the future ones that the Comptroller has

        12       not handled, we want that to continue on so they

        13       can relieve these 4,000 cases that are still

        14       pending.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Excuse

        16       me, Senator Trunzo.

        17                      Senator Cook, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR COOK:  Mr. President,

        19       would the Senators yield and I would be glad to

        20       enter a little explanation.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Sure.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator,

        23       which Senator are you asking to yield?

        24                      SENATOR COOK:  Well, whichever

        25       one has the floor.







                                                             
6071

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Leichter has the floor.

         3                      SENATOR COOK:  Okay.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leichter, do you yield to a question from

         6       Senator Cook?

         7                      SENATOR COOK:  Senator, the

         8       justification for socializing, in other words,

         9       putting it as we do with all insurance, you buy

        10       an insurance policy and everybody who's covered

        11       by that insurance is included at a common

        12       premium which is basically the principle of the

        13       following, but just as a matter of explanation,

        14       what happened in this particular instance, the

        15       fellow who was involved was the town health

        16       officer.  He happened to be a physician in an

        17       adjoining town and he worked at a salary of $500

        18       a year.  He was subsequently appointed by a

        19       different county even to be the county -- head

        20       of the county Health Department at a salary of

        21       $50,000 a year.  When he made his appeal, which

        22       was well founded and it was decided that, in

        23       fact, he was entitled to this, the error had

        24       been made by the town which had the salary of

        25       $500 but they had to pay the premium based on







                                                             
6072

         1       his $50,000 salary in the other county for all

         2       the years that he had worked for them and that's

         3       why the town ended up with an astronomical

         4       amount of money which, of course, was not based

         5       on anything that had been in their budget.

         6                      That's the reason why there are

         7       so many of these individual cases involved in

         8       this, that it makes a lot more sense just to

         9       spread it across the board.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you,

        11       Senator Cook.

        12                      If Senator Trunzo will yield.

        13       Senator, you said one thing that disturbed me.

        14       We've closed the window now, the application -

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Section 803 of

        16       the Civil Service Law -- of the Pension Law

        17       expired on October of 1996.  In other words,

        18       there's nobody else who can put in applications

        19       to make change and that may be some reason why

        20       you're seeing some individual bills coming out

        21       here again that you have questioned in the past

        22       -- over the past year or so, but what has

        23       happened is the fact that the window is closed,

        24       there are still applications pending in the

        25       Comptroller's office and the Comptroller is







                                                             
6073

         1       putting -- has a socializing bill, as it's

         2       called, also on the same issue to extend it so

         3       that these cases can be resolved as they have

         4       been between 1993 and 1995 when we did the

         5       so-called socialization of all those costs.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  So this -

         7                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  So we're just

         8       extending it for those applicants that are still

         9       waiting.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if

        11       you'll continue to yield.  As I understand it,

        12       by asking all the employers, every participating

        13       employer in the system will be charged some

        14       amount, I guess, a percentage of the -

        15                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yeah, a

        16       percentage.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:   -- payments

        18       that they make to the pension system in order to

        19       cover the costs of processing these

        20       applications.

        21                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Yes, that's

        22       right.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        24       have one suggestion and I want to hear your

        25       comment on it.  How about since we're







                                                             
6074

         1       socializing, spreading the costs around, how

         2       about socializing the costs in the Legislature

         3       of printing and acting on all of these bills.

         4       Why don't we pass that on to all the employers

         5       too?

         6                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  I think Senator

         7       Bruno does that.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Read the

        10       last section.

        11                      Senator Dollinger.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Will Senator

        13       Leichter yield to just a quick question?  Is

        14       this, in fact, the first case, Senator Leichter,

        15       where we may be voting on a piece of socialist

        16       legislation from the other side of the aisle in

        17       your career here, your 25 years here?

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        19       learned a new word and I like the idea that if

        20       you can spread some of the expense that you

        21       might have to pay on to somebody else, you're

        22       just socializing it.  I would like to try that

        23       with some of my colleagues.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read the last section.







                                                             
6075

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1378, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5492-A,

        11       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 1378

        15       has been asked by Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President,

        17       this bill would extend a real property tax break

        18       exemption up to 50 percent -- up to 45 percent

        19       for people who are disabled with essentially the

        20       same income formula as presently exists for

        21       senior citizens.

        22                      This was done last year and got a

        23       veto by the Governor.  It passed both houses.

        24       Because he objected to some parts of that bill,

        25       this bill has been revised.  It's overcome his







                                                             
6076

         1       objection, clarified a lot of questions that I

         2       think were addressed and this is necessary to be

         3       done because in many cases the income of these

         4       people isn't an awfully lot more than the taxes

         5       on their house.

         6                      Now, if they were 65 or older

         7       they could get the exemption but if they're in

         8       their 30s, 40s or 50s and they're disabled with

         9       low incomes, they're many times forced out of

        10       their homes because of the taxes.

        11                      Now, there's no state cost to

        12       this.  It would have to be up to the localities,

        13       of course, to grant this exemption and you and I

        14       and everyone else who are paying the full taxes

        15       will naturally pick up that difference, and so

        16       it's a question of whether the localities want

        17       to do it or not, but I think it's a good thing,

        18       long overdue to help out disabled people of low

        19       incomes so they can remain in their homes.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Dollinger.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        23       President, will Senator Johnson yield just to

        24       one question?

        25                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.







                                                             
6077

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Johnson, do you yield to just one question?  The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Do you know

         5       what -- if this were implemented across the

         6       state, fully implemented, all the people that

         7       have disabilities, do you know what the cost

         8       would be to local communities?

         9                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I do not know

        10       that.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        12       Because I assume this bill would work the same

        13       as other exemptions, that is, whatever tax is

        14       exempted for disabled people would then be -- to

        15       use Senator Trunzo's term, would then be

        16       socialized to everybody who pays taxes, is that

        17       correct?

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes.  Most of

        19       us here would be picking that up, no doubt about

        20       it but, quite frankly, I and others have heard

        21       so many tragic stories about people forced out

        22       of their homes.  Maybe there's a disabled person

        23       in the family, a spouse dies who had the

        24       income.  This person who is in there cannot keep

        25       the home, no place to go, and I don't think







                                                             
6078

         1       there would be very many of them in any

         2       community because there are strict limitations

         3       on who the person is on -- the disabled person,

         4       they must be certified to receive SSI or SSDI,

         5       retirement, and so forth, a certificate from

         6       blind, visually disabled, and so on.  It's not

         7       that you want to get a parking space for the

         8       disabled.  I got a little trouble with my

         9       heart.  You have to really be disabled and

        10       living only on that income essentially.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        12       President, just on the bill.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Dollinger, on the bill.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I agree with

        16       this bill from Senator Johnson.  I'm going to

        17       vote in favor of the bill.  I do think it would

        18       be helpful to have some estimate of what the

        19       cost of these exemptions would be to local

        20       communities so that we know how much of that tax

        21       we're going to end up socializing as we spread

        22       it around to others on the tax base.

        23                      It seems to me that it's a good

        24       idea.  It perpetuates the notion that disabled

        25       people will be able to continue to live in their







                                                             
6079

         1       homes, which I think everybody acknowledges is a

         2       good idea, but we should have some fiscal

         3       understanding, and I think perhaps fiscal

         4       conservatism as distinguished from socializing

         5       the cost would give us a better sense of what

         6       we're doing, even though I think it's the right

         7       thing to do.

         8                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  I think Senator

         9       Leichter is really very sensitive to the fact

        10       that this side of the aisle on these two bills

        11       is taking away a lot of the Democrat agenda but

        12       we don't really intend to do that.

        13                      I think the problem is, though,

        14       first of all, the localities can opt into the

        15       maximum of eighteen-five or they can go up to

        16       the twenty-six eight ninety-nine.  They don't

        17       have to take the higher limits.  So they can

        18       control to a great extent what they do.

        19                      Upstate some communities are

        20       still using a low limitation for the present

        21       senior citizen property taxes.  Of course, in

        22       their communities, not many people make more

        23       than $18,000 or $20,000.  So it's really up to

        24       the localities to do it and we can't predict how

        25       many are out there now and what level of







                                                             
6080

         1       exemption might be adopted by the communities.

         2       So it's very difficult to contemplate what that

         3       figure would be right now.  Someone somewhere

         4       might be able to figure it out.  I don't think

         5       it's a simple thing to do and the way it impacts

         6       on communities depends upon the actions of those

         7       communities.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read the last section.

        10                      Senator Leichter, why do you

        11       rise?

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        13       Johnson will yield, please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Johnson, do you yield to a question from Senator

        16       Leichter?

        17                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

        22       would be happy to have you take over all my

        23       program.  You seem to be much more skillful than

        24       I am in getting bills passed, but what I'm

        25       concerned about about your bill is I don't think







                                                             
6081

         1       it's totally complete.  You deal with homeowners

         2       but how about renters?  How about disabled

         3       renters and allowing municipalities to give them

         4       a break?

         5                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Of course,

         6       there are other programs out there which would

         7       affect renters, for example, circuit breaker

         8       programs, and so forth, which would affect

         9       renters but I would say, Senator, that in my

        10       experience, a homeowner and renter are different

        11       in one respect, that the taxes on tenants are

        12       generally a lot less than on homeowners.  So, in

        13       other words, it wouldn't impact on them as

        14       much.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if

        16       you would just yield to one more question.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Johnson, do you yield to one more question?

        19                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Senator yields.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, the

        24       renters pay for the real estate tax as part of

        25       their rent.  So it's certainly a burden on them







                                                             
6082

         1       and, in fact, we have a program for elderly

         2       renters which allows municipalities to give them

         3       a break, and I would just suggest that you ought

         4       to extent your program to give that power to the

         5       municipalities, city of New York, other

         6       municipalities that have a lot of renters, if

         7       they wanted to, as they do for senior citizen

         8       renters, to give assistance and a subsidy, if

         9       you will, to disabled renters.  It's easy enough

        10       to do and it would be a fair way of proceeding.

        11       It would make this a better program.

        12                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Senator, I

        13       don't -- at this point I can't express any

        14       particular opposition to it if that's a real

        15       problem.  However, that's not in this bill and

        16       perhaps I would be concerned about Senator

        17       Dollinger's observation that we don't know what

        18       this is going to cost and maybe in the future,

        19       Senator, we can extend it to that group as

        20       well.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the second day of

        25       January.







                                                             
6083

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      Senator Waldon, why do you rise?

         8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

         9       much, Mr. President.

        10                      I rise because on other business

        11       of the Senate, I was out of the chamber when

        12       this august body considered 1082, 1335 and

        13       1367.  I respectfully request unanimous consent

        14       to be recorded in the negative on each of those.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        16       objection and hearing no objection, Senator

        17       Waldon will be recorded in the negative on

        18       Calendar 1082, 1335 and 1367.

        19                      The Secretary will continue to

        20       read the controversial reading of Supplemental

        21       Calendar A -- 58-A.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1379, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        24       Print 5506, an act in relation to granting Tier

        25       1 retirement status.







                                                             
6084

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Holland, in the absence of Senator Rules, who

         4       would you like to explain Calendar Number 1379?

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         6       this legislation would grant Tier 1 retirement

         7       status to certain public employees who failed to

         8       timely join the state employment retirement

         9       system.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Will Senator

        15       Holland yield to a question?

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, this

        20       is the obvious question whenever we get one of

        21       these bills and it doesn't have a name attached

        22       to it, who is this person and what, if any,

        23       relationship does this person have to this

        24       Senate or any person in it, do you know?

        25                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I'm Senator







                                                             
6085

         1       Holland.  This is Senator Rules.  I'm just a

         2       stand-in, Senator.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I understand

         4       that, Senator Holland.  I appreciate it.  Most

         5       of these bills, when we do specific pension

         6       bills, apply to one only person and that person

         7       is named and I needed to ask.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I think it

         9       does, but I don't have the answer to that.  I

        10       can get that for you.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Could we lay

        12       the bill aside until we have the name of the

        13       person who's actually -

        14                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Well, I would

        15       rather not.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I've got the

        17       floor, Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Dollinger, the floor is yours.  Would you like

        20       Senator Holland to yield to another question or

        21       would you like to speak on the bill?

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, I would

        23       love to have him yield to another question, Mr.

        24       President.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6086

         1       Holland, do you yield to another question from

         2       Senator Dollinger?

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Senator yields.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  We've done a

         7       lot of these individual pension bills.  We've

         8       set up a process which Senator Trunzo mentioned

         9       a couple minutes ago to try to deal with this

        10       problem and not bring special individual bills.

        11       I believe every other time -- I can remember one

        12       exception which unfortunately ended up being a

        13       rather unfortunate exception to this practice -

        14       which caused a great deal of consternation and a

        15       great deal of after the fact finger pointing and

        16       all kinds of other things and it seems to me

        17       that we need to know who this is before I could

        18       cast anything near an intelligent vote on this.

        19                      I don't mean to put you on the

        20       spot or any of the other members, but I think

        21       it's only fair and consistent with our past

        22       practice we know who this is, and I would ask

        23       you again if we would lay this bill aside until

        24       we know who it is.

        25                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I would rather







                                                             
6087

         1       not, Senator.  I would like to tell you one

         2       other thing, though.  The employee is willing to

         3       pay the entire cost here.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         5       you, Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Holland, do you continue to yield?

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senator continues to yield.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Can I assume

        12       from that that this employee is willing to pay

        13       the entire cost because this is significantly

        14       beneficial to this employee whether he pays the

        15       cost or not?

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I would imagine

        17       so, sir.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I would

        19       imagine the same thing.  I would like to know

        20       who we're giving this big, huge benefit to.  You

        21       understand, Senator.  I'm a fiscal conservative,

        22       as I think you are.  Before I spend the state's

        23       money or deal -- dole it out of the pension

        24       fund, I'd like to know who this person is.

        25       Obviously this person had the ability under







                                                             
6088

         1       Senator Trunzo's bill to file a request for

         2       readmission to the pension system, and I would

         3       just ask that someone grant us an explanation of

         4       who this person is.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay the bill

         6       aside, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will lay the bill aside.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Holland,

        10       that completes the, for the moment, the

        11       controversial reading of Supplemental Calendar

        12       58-A.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  That completes

        14       -- I'm told there's one more, Mr. President

        15       13... 1336, Senator Waldon's bill.

        16                      Mr. President, lay that bill

        17       aside, please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  What's

        19       your pleasure at this point, Senator Holland?

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Return to

        21       reports of standing committees for a report of

        22       the Rules Committee, Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        24       return to the order of reports of standing

        25       committees.  There is a report from the Rules







                                                             
6089

         1       Committee meeting just a couple hours ago that's

         2       at the desk.

         3                      I'll ask the Secretary to read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

         5       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         6       following bills:

         7                      Senate Print 282, by Senator

         8       Kuhl, an act to amend the Tax Law;

         9                      1173, by Senator Maltese, an act

        10       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        11                      1416-B, by Senator Wright, an act

        12       to amend the Tax Law;

        13                      2487, by Senator Spano, an act to

        14       amend the Correction Law;

        15                      4000-A, by Senator Present, an

        16       act to amend the Executive Law;

        17                      4121-A, by Senator Holland, an

        18       act to amend the Social Services Law;

        19                      4126, by Senator Marcellino, an

        20       act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

        21                      4252, by Senator Johnson, an act

        22       to amend the Local Finance Law;

        23                      4419, by Senator Farley, an act

        24       to amend the Civil Service Law;

        25                      4766, by Senator Levy, an act to







                                                             
6090

         1       amend the Penal Law;

         2                      4847, by Senator Meier, an act to

         3       amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

         4                      5003-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act

         5       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

         6                      5075, by Senator Marcellino, an

         7       act to amend the Education Law;

         8                      5297, by Senator Stachowski, an

         9       act to permit the reopening of the optional

        10       20-year retirement plan;

        11                      5328, by Senator Marchi, an act

        12       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        13                      5372-A, by Senator Spano, an act

        14       to amend the Social Services Law;

        15                      5422, by Senator Velella, an act

        16       to amend the Family Court Act;

        17                      5440, by Senator Meier, an act to

        18       amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        19                      5525, by Senator Volker, an act

        20       to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and others;

        21                      5544, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        22       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        23                      5552-A, by Senator Goodman, an

        24       act to amend the Tax Law;

        25                      5554, by Senator Libous, an act







                                                             
6091

         1       to amend the Insurance Law;

         2                      5559, by Senator Goodman, an act

         3       to amend the Charter of the city of New York;

         4                      5584, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

         5       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

         6                      5598, by the Senate Committee on

         7       Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law; and

         8                      3836, by Senator Gentile, an act

         9       authorizing the city of New York.

        10                      All bills ordered direct for

        11       third reading.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Larkin.

        14                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        15       can we now take up the non-controversial portion

        16       of this calendar.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       motion is to accept the report of the Rules

        19       Committee.  All those in favor signify by saying

        20       aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye".)

        22                      Opposed, nay.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      The Rules report is accepted.

        25                      The bills are ordered directly to







                                                             
6092

         1       third reading.

         2                      The Secretary will call the

         3       non-controversial Supplemental Calendar 58-B.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Kuhl

         5       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         6       Assembly Bill Number 197 and substitute it for

         7       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1395.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       substitution is ordered.  The Secretary will

        10       read the title.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1395, by member of the Assembly Schimminger,

        13       Assembly Print 197, an act to amend the Tax Law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1397, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1416-B, an







                                                             
6093

         1       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to adding

         2       mining.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the first day of

         7       January.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1398, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2487, an

        13       act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to

        14       the custody and supervision.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.







                                                             
6094

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes,

         2       Senator Leichter.  Why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  What happened

         4       to Calendar Number 1396?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  It was

         6       laid aside.  You requested it be laid aside.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I don't think

         8       you ever read it.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Wait a

        10       minute.  Excuse me.  I'm mistaken.

        11                      Senator Leichter, that bill -

        12       well, you have the bill on your supplemental

        13       calendar.  There are several bills that are not

        14       going to be taken up on the calendar.  In other

        15       words, there's an active list and there's a

        16       non-active list and I'll provide for the benefit

        17       of the members those bills which will not be

        18       taken up.  Those will be Calendar Number 1396,

        19       which was passed by, Calendar Number 1405,

        20       Calendar Number 1409, Calendar 1420, 1421 and

        21       1422.  They are not on the active list and will

        22       not be read.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And they will

        24       not be taken up today, is that correct?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  They will







                                                             
6095

         1       not be taken up today.  So Calendar Number 1396

         2       was not read.  So at this point Calendar Number

         3       1395 has been passed.  1396 was not read.

         4       Calendar Number 1397 by Senator Wright was laid

         5       aside and we're on 1398.

         6                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President -

         7       Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

         9       Number 1398 was passed.  Excuse me.

        10                      SENATOR TULLY:  Point of

        11       information, Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes,

        13       sir.

        14                      SENATOR TULLY:  I may be wrong,

        15       but I think there was a lay aside request for

        16       1396 and not for 1397.  Perhaps you might want

        17       to call 1397 again.  I'm sorry.  I stand

        18       corrected.

        19                      Thank you.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is

        21       everybody clear on where we are on the

        22       calendar?  1395 passed.  1397 was laid aside.

        23       1398 passed.  We're now going to call 1399.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1399, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4000-A,







                                                             
6096

         1       an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

         2       to the registration requirement.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the first day of

         7       January.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1400, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4072-B -

        16       Calendar Number 1401, by Senator Holland, Senate

        17       Print 4121-A, an act to amend the Social

        18       Services Law, in relation to establishing.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay

        21       Calendar Number 1401 aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1402, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4126,

        24       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        25       Law, in relation to the removal.







                                                             
6097

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1403, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4252, an

        13       act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation

        14       to installment.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6098

         1       1404, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4419, an

         2       act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation

         3       to unused sick leave.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1406, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4847, an

        16       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        17       Law, in relation to retirement of sheriffs.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.







                                                             
6099

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  1407, by Senator

         4       Trunzo, Senate Print 5003-A, an act to amend the

         5       Retirement and Social Security Law, in relation

         6       to making application.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1408, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5075,

        19       an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

        20       to the frequency of the posting.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
6100

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1410, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5328, an

         8       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         9       Law, in relation to crediting and transfer.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section -

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Lay it aside,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1413, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5422, an

        19       act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

        20       to modifying the existence of exemption.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
6101

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1414, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5440, an

         8       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         9       Law, in relation to the transfer.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1415, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5525, an

        15       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and

        16       others, in relation to the collection of

        17       financial obligations.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1416, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5544, an

        23       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

        24       relation to providing for an exemption.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6102

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         8       the negatives and announce the results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

        10       Senator -- ayes 56, nays 2, Senators Leichter

        11       and Onorato recorded in the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1417, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5552-A,

        16       an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        17       exemption.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 18 -

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        23       bill aside.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       1419, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5559, an







                                                             
6103

         1       act to amend the Charter of the city of New

         2       York, in relation to the power.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         8       roll.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                      Senator Larkin, can we return to

        14       motions and resolutions.  We have a bill that we

        15       need to amend.

        16                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      On behalf of Senator Spano, on

        21       page number 2, I offer the following amendments

        22       to Calendar Number 1411, Senate Print Number

        23       5372-A, and ask that said bill retain its place

        24       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6104

         1       amendments to Calendar Number 1411, which is on

         2       Calendar Number 58-B, are received and adopted.

         3       The bill will retain its place on the Third

         4       Reading Calendar.

         5                      Senator Larkin, what's your

         6       pleasure?

         7                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Can we now start

         8       on the controversial calendar, please, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1397, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1416-B, an

        12       act to amend the Tax Law.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Wright, an explanation has been requested by

        16       Senator Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  The bill amends

        18       the Tax Law to include that -- the mining

        19       industry and the reimbursements that are

        20       eligible under the manufacturing exemption of

        21       the petroleum business tax.  In '96, we amended

        22       the petroleum business tax to provide for a

        23       series of exclusions for manufacturing.  At that

        24       time mining was not included.  This adds

        25       mining.  It has a projected fiscal impact of







                                                             
6105

         1       $80,000.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         3       would Senator Wright yield, please?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Wright, do you yield to a question from Senator

         6       Leichter?

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I will, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senator yields.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, do

        12       you have any figures as to what the dollar

        13       amount of this exemption is going to be, to what

        14       extent it's going to reduce state revenue?

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes.  $80,000,

        16       as I indicated in my initial response, that's

        17       the annual estimate.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  That's the

        19       annual amount and, Senator, is -- if you would

        20       yield for another question.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Wright, do you continue to yield?

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Certainly.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Senator yields.







                                                             
6106

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Do you know

         2       how many mining and extraction companies there

         3       are in the state that could avail themselves of

         4       this exemption?

         5                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  I do not know

         6       the exact number.  I know one that serves in my

         7       district.  Beyond that, I estimate that it's

         8       probably less than a dozen throughout the state.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right.

        10       Senator, if you would continue to yield.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Wright, do you continue to yield?

        13                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Yes, I will.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Senator continues to yield.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  What is the

        17       justification for giving this tax benefit to

        18       that company in your district?  Why should we

        19       help that particular employer or business rather

        20       than some other employer business, or maybe we

        21       ought to give this exemption to everybody who

        22       uses motor fuel.

        23                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Well, in fact,

        24       it was extended to most manufacturers in the

        25       state who use number 10 petroleum fuel.  At the







                                                             
6107

         1       time mining was one of the few not included.

         2       So, in fact, most manufacturers who use number 2

         3       oil, in fact, are already in receipt of this

         4       exemption.  So we're simply adding the mining

         5       industries to that.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Leichter.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

         9       Wright, I thank you for that answer.  Maybe that

        10       makes it clearer to me, but I was not aware that

        11       this exemption, in fact, is available to all

        12       manufacturers or you say almost all

        13       manufacturers in the state that use this

        14       particular form of oil, of motor fuel oil?

        15                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you.

        16                      In 1996 when we did a series of

        17       business tax reform, one of which was the reform

        18       of the petroleum business tax, there were

        19       specific exemptions provided for manufacturers

        20       using number 2 petroleum oil.  One of the few

        21       industries not included was the mining and

        22       extraction business.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.  Thank

        24       you.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6108

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the first day of

         4       January.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1401, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4121-A,

        13       an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        14       relation to establishing.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Holland, an explanation has been requested on

        18       Calendar Number 1401.

        19                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        20       this an idea for a bill I picked up at a

        21       National Conference of State Legislators meeting

        22       and it is an existing program in the state of

        23       Minnesota.

        24                      The bill establishes a family

        25       loan demonstration program to provide small, no







                                                             
6109

         1       interest loans to low income custodial parents

         2       who are working or enrolled in post-secondary

         3       education to help pay for certain unanticipated

         4       expenses that could interfere with the ability

         5       of the parent to maintain employment or continue

         6       education.

         7                      This is what was asked for in

         8       many of our hearings throughout the state of New

         9       York, small loans that would be available to

        10       people so that they might not have to go on

        11       welfare and it is a public and private

        12       partnership.  The state would put up $300,000

        13       for some non-profits to operate these loan

        14       programs and the money would come from

        15       foundations.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Would Senator

        19       Holland yield just to one question.

        20                      Senator, what I was interested in

        21       was the amounts that were involved.  You say the

        22       amount of the -- of this revolving loan fund is

        23       going to be $300,000?

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  The money has

        25       to be appropriated but that would be the state







                                                             
6110

         1       requirement, $300,000 and that would establish

         2       about four or five sites throughout the state of

         3       New York for non-profits.  The money for the

         4       loans themselves, the revolving loans would come

         5       from lending institutions or from foundations.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If you would

         7       yield for another question.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  So the

        10       $300,000 goes to set up the mechanism by which

        11       people would be informed, would be directed to.

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Correct,

        13       administrative costs.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lending

        15       institutions and none of this money would be

        16       used, I take it then, in giving either direct

        17       loans or underwriting or guaranteeing the

        18       loans.

        19                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Not the state

        20       money, no, sir.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Right.

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  That would be

        23       administrative costs to set up the program.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  It seems like

        25       a good program.  I just question whether it's







                                                             
6111

         1       sufficiently funded and whether -- is there any

         2       sense or any study that the lending institution

         3       will actually provide loans?

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I'm told that

         5       lending institutions want to get credit under

         6       the Federal Community Reinvestment Act and,

         7       therefore, they would put up the money for this

         8       and also there are -- the McKnight Foundation

         9       has put up money for this in Minnesota and we

        10       expect that they do the same thing here.  We had

        11       requests from other organizations in different

        12       areas of the states to do the program.  In

        13       Albany, the Family and Children Services of

        14       Albany, in New York City, the Community Service

        15       Society of New York and the Jewish Board of

        16       Family and Children Services and in Rochester,

        17       the Catholic Family Center and the Family Center

        18       of Rochester and we have a letter from them.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        23       Holland, let me just tell you, I think it's a

        24       good program but I think it's woefully

        25       underfunded but we ought to give it a try.







                                                             
6112

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  It's only a

         2       beginning.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         4       any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

         5                      Senator Dollinger.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         7       President, will the sponsor yield to just one

         8       question?

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Holland, do you yield?  The Senator yields.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  As I

        12       understand it, this is $300,000 that will be as

        13       seed money from a fund that would grant no

        14       interest loans; is it no interest or low

        15       interest loans?

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Correct.  No

        17       interest loans up to $2200 per loan.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Under what

        19       terms would they be paid back?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are you

        21       asking Senator Holland to yield to a second

        22       question, Senator Dollinger?

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.  He said

        24       he only wanted one question, Mr. President.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.







                                                             
6113

         1       President, I am.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would you

         3       yield to a second question, Senator Holland?

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senator yields.

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Under what

         8       terms would they be paid back?

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Up to two

        10       years, repayment within two years.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Dollinger.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        15       President, just on the bill briefly.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Dollinger, on the bill.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I appreciate

        19       the good-hearted intent that drives this bill

        20       but, quite frankly, this is no substitute for

        21       paying people a reasonable amount of welfare

        22       benefits when they desperately need it.  We're

        23       not going to take a group of people who feel

        24       guilty because they're on welfare and we're

        25       going to make them even guiltier because they're







                                                             
6114

         1       going to borrow money from the state of New York

         2       with no interest loans and we're going to turn

         3       them all into deadbeats if they don't pay it

         4       back, one of which will be the state of New

         5       York.

         6                      With all due respect, I'm going

         7       to vote for this bill because I don't mind

         8       voting for it but it's just not a substitute for

         9       paying people if they're in desperate straits,

        10       exceedingly desperate straits where we can say

        11       to them, Come to us.  If you meet the poverty

        12       test, we'll give you a reasonable stipend so

        13       that you can transition yourself in a period of

        14       time when you're down on your luck.  Now we're

        15       going to say to them, Well, we're not going to

        16       give you as much as we used to but we'll loan

        17       you the money and you'll have to pay us back.

        18                      Senator Holland, I appreciate -

        19       maybe I misunderstand it.  If so, please correct

        20       me, but it seems to me that this isn't a

        21       substitute for providing people with something

        22       reasonable in a period of time when they need

        23       temporary help.

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I have traveled

        25       all over the state of New York and I have talked







                                                             
6115

         1       to lots of people, and I think you're putting

         2       poor people down.  Lots of people do not want to

         3       go on welfare.  They would appreciate a loan

         4       that would bridge them over a situation where

         5       they might have to go on welfare and you can

         6       talk to any, I believe social services director

         7       in these counties throughout the state of New

         8       York and they will tell you that situation is

         9       correct and the letter of support comes from a

        10       CEO in Rochester, you might want to talk to her,

        11       Carolyn -- if I can pronounce her last name -

        12       Portanova.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Carolyn

        14       Portanova.  She's the president of the Catholic

        15       Family Center.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Talk to her.

        17       Talk to her.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Have you

        19       concluded, Senator Dollinger?

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank

        23       you.

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I don't

        25       oppose this bill.  I'm not going to vote against







                                                             
6116

         1       this bill.  Obviously giving loans to people who

         2       are down on their luck and have a difficult time

         3       is not a bad idea, but I just hope it's not

         4       anybody's impression here that this is a

         5       substitute for giving them the kinds of

         6       transitional benefits that they need in a period

         7       of time when they need temporary assistance from

         8       this state.

         9                      The last thing I would want to do

        10       is say to people who are in need of welfare

        11       assistance, Go ahead.  Borrow money from us but

        12       you've got to pay it back some day.  I

        13       understand it's well intentioned.  I hope it

        14       works but let's not use it as a substitute for

        15       making sure we fulfill our commitment so that

        16       poor people in this state have the transitional

        17       benefits necessary to maintain themselves and

        18       aren't enchained for the rest of their life with

        19       the notion that they've got to pay it back.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6117

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         6       Larkin.

         7                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

         8       can we now return to Calendar 1336, Senate Print

         9       2491, by Senator Waldon.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1336, by member of the Assembly Clark, Assembly

        12       Print 3898, an act to amend the Public

        13       Authorities Law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        19       roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                      Senator Larkin.

        25                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Can we now







                                                             
6118

         1       return to the regular order, Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read the controversial calendar

         4       58-B in order.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1410, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5328, an

         7       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

         8       Law, in relation to crediting and transferring.

         9                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Volker, for an explanation.

        13                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        14       in keeping with my new New York City package

        15       here, let me explain this bill.

        16                      First of all, let me just say

        17       that I read the -- there was a little problem

        18       with the memo and I -- so I was -- it was

        19       explained to me that what -- the story here is

        20       that this involves a very small number of

        21       employees who had prior service with the city of

        22       New York and now are employed with the state of

        23       New York and have pension service credits that

        24       are -- apparently are what they called stranded

        25       in the New York City pension system.  They get







                                                             
6119

         1       their full credit, they would need to

         2       consolidate these credits in the New York State

         3       employ... state and local employees retirement

         4       system, in other words, the ERS.

         5                      What I guess happened here is

         6       that there was a bill passed here several years

         7       ago and required the city of New York to pass a

         8       local law which for one reason or another the

         9       city of New York did not do in this case,

        10       although apparently it did in other cases.

        11                      According to the memo, there's

        12       only a small number of employees that are

        13       involved here and, remember, these are credits

        14       that these people earned themselves and the

        15       money is in the system which is the credit of

        16       the people who are now in the state system.  In

        17       other words, this is not any new money.  It's

        18       already in the system and some of the people

        19       involved apparently was contributory -- made

        20       contributions because the system itself required

        21       contributions so their money is -- even their

        22       own contributions are in the system.

        23                      What this would do is move those

        24       stranded -- that stranded amount of money to the

        25       state pension system.  The Comptroller says that







                                                             
6120

         1       the fiscal impact of New York City would not

         2       apply at all because these are monies that were

         3       already earned by these people and the state

         4       system cost would be very minimal because

         5       there's only a few amount of people who were

         6       involved.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        12       roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1414, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5440, an

        19       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        20       Law, in relation to the transfer of previous

        21       service credit.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Meier, an explanation of Calendar Number 1414

        25       has been requested by Senator Leichter.







                                                             
6121

         1                      SENATOR MEIER:  Yes, Mr.

         2       President.  Current law provides that members of

         3       the State Police who have had previous service

         4       as a member of a state park police agency or a

         5       municipal police department may transfer the

         6       full retirement credit earned during that prior

         7       service into the State Police retirement plan.

         8                      This bill would expand the

         9       universe of people who may transfer that credit

        10       to include employees or officers, rather, of the

        11       Department of Correctional Services.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

        15       recognizes Senator Dollinger.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator

        17       Meier, the anticipated cost of this is $180,000

        18       for one member, is that correct?

        19                      SENATOR MEIER:  That's correct.

        20       There is one -- there's a fiscal note which is

        21       appended to the bill which you have in your

        22       hand.  There is one identifiable member

        23       currently within the system and that is the cost

        24       that's been provided by the state retirement

        25       system.







                                                             
6122

         1                      The bill, I would point out,

         2       would also apply to any future member who might

         3       transfer from the Department of Correctional

         4       Services to the Division of State Police.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

         6       you, Mr. President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Meier, do you continue to yield?  The Senator

         9       continues to yield.

        10                      SENATOR MEIER:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What is the

        13       $180,000 cost?  Is that going to come out of the

        14       general fund?  Who pays that?

        15                      SENATOR MEIER:  The $180,000

        16       cost, I believe, said there would be -- it would

        17       come out of the budget according to the

        18       statement from the actuary of the Division of

        19       the State Police.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        21       you, Mr. President.  Could you just tell me who

        22       this person is, who this one person is?

        23                      SENATOR MEIER:  Yes, I could.

        24       The present person affected is a gentleman named

        25       Lieutenant Frank DeGennaro, who is presently a







                                                             
6123

         1       lieutenant in the Department of Correctional

         2       Services and there may be other people who are

         3       unidentified and any future people obviously

         4       cannot be identified who might exercise the

         5       option to be transferred.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And again

         7       through you, Mr. President, I apologize.  I'm

         8       just missing something.  Why is the cost so

         9       large?  That's a huge amount of money to be

        10       placed in the pension system.

        11                      SENATOR MEIER:  I can only -- I

        12       have the letter -- the fiscal impact note from

        13       the New York State retirement system.  I can

        14       only assume that the cost is such because of the

        15       amount of credit being transferred.  The fiscal

        16       note doesn't give us anything more than the

        17       cost.  It doesn't perform the calculations.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Dollinger, do you wish to speak on the bill?

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  No.  Again

        21       through you, Mr. President.  If I can just ask

        22       another question.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Meier, do you continue to yield?

        25                      SENATOR MEIER:  Yes, Mr.







                                                             
6124

         1       President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is the

         5       $180,000 transferred from one pension system to

         6       another, or is it new cash coming into the

         7       pension system out of the general fund?

         8                      SENATOR MEIER:  The fiscal note

         9       indicates that this is a past service cost of

        10       approximately $180,000.  It's my understanding

        11       that it would not be a transfer and that the

        12       prior -- that the funds contributed for the

        13       prior service credit would remain within that

        14       retirement system.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Dollinger.

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        18       you, Mr. President, if Senator Meier will yield

        19       to just one other question.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Meier, do you yield to one other question?

        22                      SENATOR MEIER:  Of course, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Senator yields.







                                                             
6125

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Does this

         2       mean the individual will get a pension from one

         3       of the pension systems and we're buying him

         4       $180,000 worth of credit in the other pension

         5       system?

         6                      SENATOR MEIER:  No.  Once the

         7       credit is transferred, there can be no pension

         8       from the other system because there's no credit

         9       in it to cause a pension to vest.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again, I'm

        11       just trying to understand.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Meier, do you continue to yield?

        14                      SENATOR MEIER:  Of course, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What I'm

        17       trying to understand, is this $180,000 of new

        18       money, or are we getting $180,000 in the

        19       treasury from forfeiture from the other pension

        20       system that will be used to buy these new

        21       purchase credits?

        22                      SENATOR MEIER:  My understanding

        23       is that the bill occasions a new expense of

        24       $180,000 and that the funds placed into the

        25       earlier pension system are, in effect,







                                                             
6126

         1       stranded.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Dollinger.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         5       President, I'm confused.  I'm going to vote, I

         6       guess in my confusion, but I think it's an awful

         7       lot of money coming out of the general fund for

         8       one person.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

        17       Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1415, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5525, an

        22       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Tax

        23       Law and the Judiciary Law.

        24                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6127

         1       Volker, for an explanation.

         2                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Senator, this

         3       bill is a Department of Probation program bill

         4       and it provides an automated -- a new kind of

         5       system for the collection of outstanding

         6       financial obligations that are connected in

         7       connection with criminal proceedings and

         8       youthful offender adjudications.

         9                      It's no secret that the state has

        10       had a problem for some years in collecting

        11       fines, and I guess I would have to say this has

        12       been true especially in the city of New York,

        13       where hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines,

        14       in some cases, have been uncollected and in some

        15       cases there are obligations outstanding and it's

        16       been said that there are people or groups that

        17       have money but for one reason or another there

        18       has not been the ability to collect that money

        19       and, in fact, if my recollection is correct,

        20       over the years we have, in effect, put money in

        21       the budget in anticipation of collections and

        22       that has not come to fruition.

        23                      As I understand this, this is, in

        24       effect, setting up a new modernized system for

        25       collecting those fines and this does not raise,







                                                             
6128

         1       by the way, any fines or fees or anything of

         2       that nature.

         3                      What this bill does is just set

         4       up a better system for collecting those fees and

         5       provides an amnesty program in certain cases

         6       and, in other words, it's an entire revamping of

         7       the system for collecting fees, and so forth,

         8       that are due the state of New York in criminal

         9       cases and in youthful offender cases.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first day of

        14       November.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1417, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5552-A,

        23       an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        24       exemption.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Explanation.







                                                             
6129

         1                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay it aside,

         2       Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         4       bill aside temporarily.

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Any house

         6       keeping, Mr. President?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have

         8       some.  Can we return to the order of motions and

         9       resolutions, Senator Larkin.  We have a motion.

        10       Return to the order of motions and resolutions.

        11                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        12       Marcellino.

        13                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                      On behalf of Senator Hannon,

        16       please remove the sponsor's star from Calendar

        17       Number 495.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The star

        19       on Calendar Number 495 will be removed at the

        20       request of the sponsor.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        22       sir.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Larkin.

        25                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Would you please







                                                             
6130

         1       recognize Senator Montgomery, Mr. President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Montgomery.

         4                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                      I would like unanimous consent to

         7       be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1381.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         9       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        10       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on

        11       Calendar Number 1381.

        12                      Senator Larkin.

        13                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        14       would you lay Senator Goodman's bill, 1417 aside

        15       for the day.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        17       Number 1317 will be laid aside -- excuse me -

        18       1417 will be laid aside for the day.

        19                      Senator Larkin.

        20                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        21       is there any other housekeeping at the desk?

        22                      SENATOR GENTILE:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Gentile.

        25                      SENATOR GENTILE:  Mr. President,







                                                             
6131

         1       earlier today there was a vote on a confirmation

         2       -- on a reappointment to the Metropolitan

         3       Transportation Authority.  I just wanted to put

         4       on the record, if possible, just my vote and my

         5       explanation, my -- of my vote on James Simpson.

         6                      I vote in the affirmative on Mr.

         7       Simpson but I must say, as a Staten Islander, I

         8       would naturally be inclined to vote for him but

         9       that's really not the reason that I voted in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                      Actually given the Transit

        12       Authority record in my Brooklyn end of my

        13       district, which is atrocious, Mr. Simpson would

        14       not get my vote, but I am voting in the

        15       affirmative for Mr. Simpson on the basis that he

        16       has publicly stated that he is in support of the

        17       express bus fare campaign for the Staten Island

        18       Express buses.

        19                      That public statement will give

        20       me -- will give him the benefit of the doubt in

        21       my eyes.  However, just a public statement of

        22       support for the half fare campaign on Staten

        23       Island is not enough.

        24                      Mr. Simpson is in the position to

        25       now make a motion to the MTA board to institute







                                                             
6132

         1       that half fare discount on the express buses

         2       beginning this summer on Staten Island.

         3                      I look forward, with vigilance,

         4       to be sure that Mr. Simpson, who's now stated

         5       publicly he supports this half fare discount,

         6       will now move forward and make that motion as a

         7       member of the Metropolitan Transportation

         8       Authority board.

         9                      So I vote in favor of Mr.

        10       Simpson, but I do so with some trepidation and

        11       look forward, with some anticipation, for his

        12       cooperation on the express bus fare for Staten

        13       Island.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Gentile, since this is the end of session, we're

        16       trying to be as accommodating as possible.

        17       Normally you would not be allowed the

        18       opportunity to explain a vote.  It would have to

        19       come in the form of a request to the entire body

        20       for unanimous consent to make a statement at

        21       that portion of the time when that opportunity

        22       is available through the normal rules and

        23       procedure.  I just -- you're a new member.  I

        24       understand.  I would just point that out for

        25       your recognition at this time.







                                                             
6133

         1                      SENATOR GENTILE:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Larkin.

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is this any

         6       other business at the desk?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         8       none.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President, I

        10       now move we adjourn until Wednesday, June the

        11       25th, at 10:00 a.m., period.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       objection, hearing no objection, the Senate

        14       stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, June

        15       25th, at 10:00 a.m.

        16                      (Whereupon, at 6:40 p.m., the

        17       Senate adjourned.)

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25