Regular Session - July 1, 1997

                                                                 
6663

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                         July 1, 1997

        11                          11:24 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                       REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

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        24

        25







                                                             
6664

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         4       find their places, staff to find their places.

         5       Ask everybody in the chamber to rise and join

         6       with me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to

         7       the Flag.

         8                      (The assemblage repeated the

         9       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

        10                      In the absence of clergy, may we

        11       bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        12                      (A moment of silence was

        13       observed. )

        14                      Reading of the Journal.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        16       Monday, June 30th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, June 29th,

        18       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        19       adjourned.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        21       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.

        24                      Messages from the Assembly.

        25                      Messages from the Governor.







                                                             
6665

         1                      Reports of standing committees.

         2                      Reports of select committees.

         3                      Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                      Motions and resolutions.

         6                      Chair recognizes Senator Tully.

         7                      SENATOR TULLY:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      On behalf of Senator Present, I

        10       wish to call up his bill, Print Number 535,

        11       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        12       desk.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       112, by Senator Present, Senate Print 535, an

        17       act authorizing the Commissioner of General

        18       Services.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Tully.

        21                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        22       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        23       bill was passed.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will call the roll on reconsideration.







                                                             
6666

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         2       reconsideration.)

         3                      THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         5       Tully.

         6                      SENATOR TULLY: I now offer the

         7       following amendments.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments

         9       received and adopted.

        10                      Senator Tully.

        11                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        12       behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up his

        13       bill, Print Number 3617, recalled from the

        14       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       657, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3617, an

        19       act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        21       Tully.

        22                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        23       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        24       bill was passed.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary







                                                             
6667

         1       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         3       reconsideration.)

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Tully.

         7                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         8       now offer the following amendments.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments

        10       received and adopted.

        11                      Senator Tully.

        12                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        13       behalf of Senator Marcellino, I wish to call up

        14       his bill, Print Number 4129, recalled from the

        15       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary

        17       will read the title.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       787, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4129,

        20       an act authorizing the Commissioner of General

        21       Services.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Tully.

        24                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        25       now move to reconsider the vote by which this







                                                             
6668

         1       bill was passed.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         4                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         5       reconsideration.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      Senator Tully.

        10                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        11       now offer the following amendments.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        13       Amendments received and adopted.

        14                      Senator Tully.

        15                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        16       behalf of Senator Spano, I wish to call up his

        17       bill, Print Number 5405, recalled from the

        18       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1256, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5405, an

        23       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        24       Law.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6669

         1       Tully.

         2                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         3       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         4       bill was passed.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         8       reconsideration.)

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Tully.

        12                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        13       now offer the following amendments.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Amendments received and adopted.

        16                      Senator Tully.

        17                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        18       behalf of Senator Seward, I wish to call up his

        19       bill, Print Number 5197, recalled from the

        20       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary

        22       will read the title.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       838, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5197, an

        25       act to amend the General Municipal Law.







                                                             
6670

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Tully.

         3                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         4       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         5       bill was passed.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         9       reconsideration.)

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 48.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Tully.

        13                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

        14       now offer the following amendments.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Amendments received and adopted.

        17                      Senator Maziarz.

        18                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      On page number 25, I offer the

        21       following amendments to Calendar Number 976,

        22       Senate Print Number 1816-A, and ask that said

        23       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        24       Calendar.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:







                                                             
6671

         1       Amendments to Calendar Number 976 are received

         2       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

         3       the Third Reading calendar.

         4                      Senator Maziarz.

         5                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      On behalf of Senator Padavan, on

         8       page number 29, I offer the following amendments

         9       to Calendar Number 1241, Senate Print Number

        10       5262-A, and ask that said bill retain its place

        11       on the Third Reading Calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        13       Amendments to Calendar Number 1241 are received

        14       and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on

        15       the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                      Senator Maziarz.

        17                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      I wish to call up my bill, Print

        20       Number 5081-A, recalled from the Assembly which

        21       is now at the desk.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the title.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       784, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5081-A, an







                                                             
6672

         1       act to amend the Social Services Law.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Maziarz.

         4                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

         5       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         6       bill was passed.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         9                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        10       reconsideration.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Maziarz.

        14                      SENATOR MAZIARZ: I now offer the

        15       following amendments.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments

        17       received and adopted.

        18                      Senator Maziarz.

        19                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      On behalf of Senator Goodman, I

        22       wish to call up bill Print Number 3756, recalled

        23       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the title.







                                                             
6673

         1                      Before you proceed, Senator

         2       Maziarz, Calendar Number 784 is restored to the

         3       calendar.

         4                      Now, your second motion was to

         5       recon....  Senator Maziarz, would you re-make

         6       your first -- your next motion, please.

         7                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I wish to call

         8       up my bill, Print Number 5081-A, recalled from

         9       the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

        11       784 is restored to the calendar.  Do you have

        12       any other motion now, Senator Maziarz?

        13                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you

        15       make that, please?

        16                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  I wish to call

        17       up Print Number 3756, recalled from the Assembly

        18       which is now at the desk.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the title.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       890, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3756, an

        23       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Maziarz.







                                                             
6674

         1                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Mr. President,

         2       I now move to reconsider the vote by which this

         3       bill was passed.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That bill

        10       is restored to the calendar.

        11                      Senator Maziarz, relative to your

        12       motion on Calendar Number 890, by Senator

        13       Goodman, do you wish to have that bill

        14       recommitted, as is on the script which you're

        15       supposed to read?

        16                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Yes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  O.K.

        18       Then we will recommit that bill.

        19                      Thank you, Senator Maziarz.

        20                      Are there other motions?  Senator

        21       Skelos, we have some substitutions we'd like to

        22       take if they might be taken.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        24       while we're doing some of the housekeeping,

        25       there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules







                                                             
6675

         1       Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

         3       meeting of the Rules Committee, immediate

         4       meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority

         5       Conference Room, Room 332.

         6                      Secretary will read the

         7       substitutions.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 9,

         9       Senator Kuhl moves to discharge from the

        10       Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 5409-A

        11       and substitute it for the identical Third

        12       Reading Calendar 389.

        13                      On page 11, Senator Nozzolio

        14       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        15       Assembly Bill Number 5572-D and substitute it

        16       for the identical Third Reading Calendar 437.

        17                      On page 12, Senator Liebell moves

        18       to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 2931-A, and substitute it

        20       for the identical Third Reading Calendar 504.

        21                      On page 21, Senator Holland moves

        22       to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        23       Assembly Bill Number 6049-A and substitute it

        24       for the identical Third Reading Calendar 839.

        25                      On page 21, Senator Meier moves







                                                             
6676

         1       to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         2       Assembly Bill Number 6334 and substitute it for

         3       the identical Third Reading Calendar 845.

         4                      On page 31, Senator Bruno moves

         5       to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         6       Assembly Bill Number 8165-A, and substitute it

         7       for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1421.

         8                      And on page 32, Senator Seward

         9       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        10       Assembly Bill Number 4954, and substitute it for

        11       the identical Third Reading Calendar 404.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        13       Substitutions are ordered.

        14                      Senator Holland.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        16       I believe you have a privileged resolution at

        17       the desk by Senator Rath.  I would ask that the

        18       title be read and it be adopted.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the title of the privileged resolution

        21       by Senator Rath which is at the desk.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Rath,

        23       Legislative Resolution commending the Ladies

        24       Auxiliary of the Goetzville Fire Company upon

        25       the occasion of its 75th Anniversary.







                                                             
6677

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         2       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

         3       signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The resolution is adopted.

         8                      Senator Holland.

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        10       can we please adopt the entire Resolution

        11       Calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar which

        14       is on the desk of the members.  All those in

        15       favor signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The Resolution Calendar is

        20       adopted.

        21                      Senator Holland.

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        23       can we have the reading of the non-controversial

        24       calendar, please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6678

         1       will read the non-controversial calendar.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       278, by member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly

         4       Print 2632, an act to amend the Real Property

         5       Tax Law, in relation to payment.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       339, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 453-D, an

        18       act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

        19       the settlement of claims.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        23       act shall take effect 120 days.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6679

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       488, by member of the Assembly Carrozza,

         7       Assembly Print 4508, an act to amend the State

         8       Finance Law, in relation to deferred

         9       compensation.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       504, substituted earlier today, by member of the

        22       Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print 2931-A, an act to

        23       amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in

        24       relation to allowing.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6680

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       575, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3731-A, an

        12       act to amend Chapter 915 of the Laws of 1982.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       850, by member of the Assembly Gunther, Assembly

        25       Print 422, an act to amend the Public Service







                                                             
6681

         1       Law, in relation to utility rates.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay aside for

         3       the day, please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         5       bill aside for the day.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       865, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4595, an

         8       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and

         9       others, in relation to the powers of the State

        10       University security officers.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay that aside.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       874, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 432, an

        16       act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law,

        17       in relation to the New York State fine arts

        18       collection.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll. )







                                                             
6682

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1084, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899-A, an

         6       act to authorize the town of Washington in the

         7       county of Dutchess.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         9       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        10       read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1411, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5372-B, an

        21       act to amend the Social Services Law, in

        22       relation to unfounded reports of child abuse or

        23       maltreatment.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the last section.







                                                             
6683

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      Senator Holland, that completes

        10       the reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        11       What's your pleasure?

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Can we have the

        13       reading of the controversial calendar, please?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        15       will read the controversial calendar beginning

        16       with Calendar Number 865, by the -- before we do

        17       that, the Chair would recognize Senator

        18       Paterson.

        19                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        20       rise?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                      The only bill that I see on the

        24       controversial calendar is one that I laid aside

        25       for Senator Leichter who is in the Rules







                                                             
6684

         1       Committee.  I just wanted the Chair to be aware

         2       of that.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Calendar

         4       Number 865 was laid aside at your behest,

         5       Senator Paterson?

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes, it was.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  And that

         8       was to allow Senator Leichter to be able to ask

         9       a couple questions.  Senator Saland, or excuse

        10       me, Senator Holland, how do you propose to

        11       handle that dilemma?

        12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay that aside

        13       temporarily, Mr. President, and if there is any

        14       housekeeping do that.  If not, we'll stand at

        15       ease awaiting a Rules report -- oh, here it

        16       comes.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's

        18       nothing at the desk to do so -

        19                      Senator Holland, the report of

        20       the Rules Committee just arrived, but it will

        21       take the desk just a minute or so, and they'll

        22       be able to take that up.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.

        24       There will be an immediate meeting of the

        25       Finance Committee in Room 332.







                                                             
6685

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         2       will be an immediate meeting of the Finance

         3       Committee, immediate meeting of the Finance

         4       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room

         5       332.

         6                      Senator Holland.

         7                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         8       may we return to reports of standing

         9       committees.  I believe there's a report of the

        10       Rules Committee at the desk.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        12       is.  We'll return to the order of reports of

        13       standing committees.  I'll ask the Secretary to

        14       read the report of the Rules Committee which is

        15       at the desk.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

        17       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        18       following bills:

        19                      5410-B, by Senator Johnson, an

        20       act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        21       Law;

        22                      5606, by the Senate Committee on

        23       Rules, an act to amend Chapter 483 of the Laws

        24       of 1978;

        25                      5609, by the Senate Committee on







                                                             
6686

         1       Rules, an act establishing the chronic care

         2       management demonstration program;

         3                      5649, by Senator Velella, an act

         4       to amend the Insurance Law;

         5                      5650, by Senator LaValle, an act

         6       to amend the Public Authorities Law;

         7                      5653, by Senator LaValle -

         8       excuse me, by Senator Velella, an act to amend

         9       the Insurance Law;

        10                      3389, by Senator Seabrook, an act

        11       authorizing the city of New York;

        12                      5657, by the Senate Committee on

        13       Rules, an act to amend the Racing, Pari-mutuel

        14       Wagering and Breeding Law; and

        15                      5658, by the Senate Committee on

        16       Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law.

        17                      All bills ordered direct for

        18       third reading.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        22       I move we accept the report of the Rules

        23       Committee.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        25       to accept the report of the Rules Committee.







                                                             
6687

         1       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         2                      (Response of "Aye.")

         3                      Opposed nay.

         4                      (There was no response.)

         5                      The report of the Rules Committee

         6       is accepted.

         7                      Senator Holland.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         9       I move we accept Rules report that was laid

        10       aside last week.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        12       to accept the report of the Rules Committee

        13       which was previously offered on June 25th at

        14       about 11:55 p.m.  All those in favor signify by

        15       saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The Rules report is accepted.

        20       Senator Holland.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Can we take up

        22       the non-controversial -- now, wait a minute, one

        23       second.  Can we -- the committee report, can we

        24       take up 3389, by Senator Seabrook, please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the







                                                             
6688

         1       benefit of the members, we will be going to

         2       Supplemental Calendar Number 60-A, which was

         3       just placed on your desk, and the Secretary will

         4       read Calendar Number 1510, on page 2 of

         5       Supplemental Calendar Number 60-A, by Senator

         6       Seabrook.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1510, by Senator Seabrook, Senate Print 3389, an

         9       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

        10       its interest in certain real property.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        12       no home rule message at the desk, so the bill

        13       will have to be laid aside.

        14                      Senator Holland.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        16       can we take up 5657, please, by Rules.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read the substitution on Calendar Number

        19       1511, Senate Print 5657.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno

        21       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        22       Assembly Bill Number 8429 and substitute it for

        23       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1511.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read.







                                                             
6689

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1511, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         3       Assembly Print 8429, an act to amend the Racing,

         4       Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Senator Holland.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        17       may we take up 5410-B, by Senator Johnson,

        18       please.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read Calendar Number 1493, which is Senate

        21       Print 5410-B, by Senator Johnson.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1493, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5410-B,

        24       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        25       Law, in relation to the management of marine







                                                             
6690

         1       fisheries.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Holland.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Is there a

         5       message at the desk, please.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         7       a message of necessity at the desk.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Move we accept

         9       it.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        11       to accept the message of necessity on Calendar

        12       Number 1493.  All those in favor signify by

        13       saying aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed nay.

        16                      The message is accepted.

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 13.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
6691

         1                      Senator Holland.

         2                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         3       can we take up 5649, by Senator Velella, please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read Calendar Number 1502, Senate Print

         6       5649, the substitution which is at the desk.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

         8       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         9       Assembly Bill Number 8446 and substitute it for

        10       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1502.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read

        13       the title.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1502, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        16       Assembly Print 8446, an act to amend the

        17       Insurance Law.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect July 1.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.







                                                             
6692

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                      Senator Holland.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         5       please 5650, by Senator Velella.  I'm sorry, I

         6       said it wrong again, LaValle.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         8       will read the Assembly substitution at the desk

         9       on Calendar Number 1503.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator LaValle

        11       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        12       Assembly Bill Number 8445 and substitute it for

        13       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1503.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read

        16       the title.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1503, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Print 8445, an act to amend the Public

        20       Authorities Law, in relation to the powers of

        21       the Dormitory Authority.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.







                                                             
6693

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      Senator Holland.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         9       5653, please, by Senator Velella.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the substitution at the desk on

        12       Calendar Number 1506, by Senator Velella, Senate

        13       Print 5653, which is on page 2 of the

        14       Supplemental Calendar 60-A.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Velella

        16       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        17       Assembly Bill Number 8451 and substitute it for

        18       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1506.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read

        21       the title.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1506, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        24       Assembly Print 8451, an act to amend the

        25       Insurance Law, in relation to continuation of







                                                             
6694

         1       provisions.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Senator Holland.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        14       there are three remaining bills on 60-A.  Could

        15       you please read those bills starting with 5606,

        16       please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        18       will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1498, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        21       Print 5606, an act to amend Chapter 483 of the

        22       Laws of 1978.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay aside

        24       temporarily.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the







                                                             
6695

         1       bill aside.

         2                      Secretary will read the next

         3       Calendar Number 1499.  There is a substitution

         4       at the desk on Senate Print 5609.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno

         6       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         7       Assembly Bill Number 8456 and substitute it for

         8       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1499.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        10       Substitution ordered.  Secretary will read the

        11       title.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1499, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        14       Assembly Print 8456, an act establishing the

        15       chronic care management demonstration program.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Lay that aside

        17       temporarily.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside temporarily.

        20                      Secretary will continue to read

        21       Calendar Number 1512, the substitution that's at

        22       the desk.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno

        24       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

        25       Assembly Bill Number 8467 and substitute it for







                                                             
6696

         1       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1512.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read

         4       the title.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1512, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         7       Assembly Print 8467, an act to amend the

         8       Insurance Law, in relation to continuing the

         9       purpose and extending.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Will you lay

        11       that aside temporarily also, please.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        13       bill aside temporarily.

        14                      Senator Holland.

        15                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Could we return

        16       to the today's calendar and do Calendar Number

        17       865, Senator Saland's bill, please; is that the

        18       one?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

        20       the original calendar of the day.

        21                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I'm sorry,

        22       never mind.  Delete that.  We're waiting for

        23       Senator Leichter who would like to ask some

        24       questions of Senator Saland.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6697

         1       Holland, we do have a couple of motions we could

         2       take care of at the desk.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

         5       the order of motions and resolutions.

         6                      Chair recognizes Senator

         7       Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      I wish to call up Senator Skelos'

        11       bill, Print Number 5090-A, recalled from the

        12       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary

        14       will read.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1369, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5090-A, an

        17       act to amend Chapter 879 of the Laws of 1936.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Marcellino.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.

        21       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

        22       which this bill was passed.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The

        24       Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll on







                                                             
6698

         1       reconsideration.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         6       President, I now offer the following amendments.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Amendments are received and adopted.

         9                      Senator Marcellino.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Oh, I got a

        11       blank sheet.

        12                      Mr. President, on behalf of

        13       Senator Skelos, I wish to call up his bill,

        14       Print Number 4821, recalled from the Assembly

        15       which is now at the desk.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1453, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4821, an

        20       act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation

        21       to reimbursement.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Marcellino.

        24                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        25       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by







                                                             
6699

         1       which this bill was passed.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         3       to reconsider the vote by which the bill passed

         4       the house.  Secretary will call the roll on

         5       reconsideration.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         7       reconsideration.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Marcellino.

        11                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        12       President, I now offer the following amendments.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Amendments are received and adopted.

        15                      Senator Holland.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator

        17       Leichter is not here yet.  Can we return to

        18       Supplemental Calendar 60-B from the Rules

        19       Committee.  Is it distributed? I guess not.

        20       Can't do that either.  Not distributed, Mr.

        21       President.  I guess we'll have to stand at ease

        22       for the moment.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        24       will stand at ease for a moment.

        25                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President.







                                                             
6700

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Senate will come to order, members find their

         3       places, please, staff take their chairs.

         4                      Senator Holland.

         5                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         6       may we return to reports of standing

         7       committees.  I believe there is a report of the

         8       Finance Committee at the desk.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        10       is.  We'll return to the order of reports of

        11       standing committees.  I'll ask the Secretary to

        12       read the report of the Finance Committee.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        14       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        15       following bills:

        16                      Senate Print 5671, by the Senate

        17       Committee on Rules, an act making appropriations

        18       for the support of government; and

        19                      Senate Print 5672, by the Senate

        20       Committee on Rules, an act making appropriations

        21       for the support of government.

        22                      Both bills ordered direct for

        23       third reading.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Holland.







                                                             
6701

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I move we

         2       accept the report of the Finance Committee.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         4       to accept the report of the Finance Committee.

         5       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Opposed nay.

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      The report of the Finance

        10       Committee is accepted.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Can we take up

        12       Calendar 1508, please, Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the title of Calendar Number 1508.

        15       It's one of the bills just reported from the

        16       Finance Committee.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar number

        18       1508, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        19       Print 5671, an act making appropriations for the

        20       support of government.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Holland.

        23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Is there a

        24       message at the desk?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is







                                                             
6702

         1       a message of necessity and of appropriation at

         2       the desk.

         3                      Senator Holland.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Move to

         5       accept.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         7       to accept the messages.  All those in favor

         8       signify by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      The messages are accepted.

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        19       the negatives and announce the results.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays

        21       one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the

        22       negative.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      Senator Holland.







                                                             
6703

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         2       can we do Calendar 1509, please.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the title to Calendar Number 1509

         5       which is the second bill that was reported out

         6       of the Finance Committee.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1509, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         9       Print 5672, an act making appropriations for the

        10       support of government.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        12       is there a message of necessity at the desk,

        13       please?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There are

        15       two messages at the desk, Senator Holland.

        16                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Move we accept

        17       both messages.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        19       to accept the message of necessity and the

        20       message of appropriation on Calendar Number

        21       1509.  All those in favor signify by saying

        22       aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")

        24                      Opposed nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
6704

         1                      The messages are accepted.

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         9       the negatives and announce the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 1509 are

        12       Senators Alesi, Dollinger and Maziarz.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50, nays 3.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      Senator Holland.

        19                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        20       can we recognize Senator Stafford, the chairman

        21       of the Finance Committee, please.

        22                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        23       I believe we have some nominations.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        25       return to the order of reports of standing







                                                             
6705

         1       committees.  There's a report of the Finance

         2       Committee.  I'll ask the Secretary to read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         4       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         5       following nomination:

         6                      Member of the state Civil Service

         7       Commission, George C. Sinnott, of Clifton Park.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         9       recognizes Senator Stafford, on the nomination.

        10                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        11       at the risk of being a broken record speaking of

        12       the Governor's nominations, I assure you today I

        13       am not.

        14                      We had two very fine individuals

        15       appear before us, two of the finest -- I mean

        16       that -- Chairman Sinnott of the Civil Service

        17       Commission addressed us professionally.  He

        18       explained exactly what is being done.  We

        19       unanimously supported him, and I could go on and

        20       on in a positive manner, but I will yield to the

        21       Senator from part of Saratoga.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Farley.

        24                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you very

        25       much, Senator Stafford.







                                                             
6706

         1                      I rise to move the nomination of

         2       George Sinnott on behalf of my colleague that I

         3       share Saratoga County with, Senator Bruno.  I

         4       know that Senator Bruno, if he wasn't involved

         5       in a meeting, would be here to nominate George.

         6       Actually, Clifton Park abuts my district and

         7       we're -- half the people there think that I'm

         8       their Senator, so today we'll pretend that I

         9       am.

        10                      George Sinnott has had a

        11       magnificent career, particularly when it comes

        12       to personnel and working with labor and

        13       hearings, and so forth, and you know, I have to

        14       compliment Governor Pataki on this appointment

        15       because nobody that is going on the Civil

        16       Service Commission, particularly as president,

        17       will -- is better qualified than George

        18       Sinnott.

        19                      He comes from a distinguished

        20       family.  His brother Bill was a member of the

        21       Senate family, and I guess he has four other -

        22       four brothers that are a lot like my family, a

        23       lot of boys and no -- no girls.

        24                      But let me say this, that George

        25       Sinnott is eminently qualified for this job.  He







                                                             
6707

         1       came before the Finance Committee and I think

         2       everybody that heard him was impressed with the

         3       breadth of knowledge and his commitment to

         4       efficient state service, and commitment to the

         5       civil service system which has been somewhat

         6       under a cloud of attack because of its

         7       inefficiency over the years, and I'm confident

         8       that he will make a difference for this

         9       commission, make a difference for the civil

        10       servant who is the life blood of our state, many

        11       of whom particularly from the Capital District

        12       are my constituents, and Senator Breslin's and

        13       Senator Bruno, but we're very, very grateful for

        14       his commitment to the state service.  He's also

        15       mentioned, and I think it's kind of significant,

        16       that his dear friend and mentor, Senator Levy,

        17       who is ill at the present time, that he has a

        18       connection from Long Island and Nassau County,

        19       and George Sinnott is an outstanding appointment

        20       and it's with enthusiasm that I move his

        21       nomination.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        23       recognizes Senator Skelos, on the nomination.

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        25       I'm delighted to rise and speak on behalf of my







                                                             
6708

         1       good friend, George Sinnott, as we once again

         2       confirm him for a very important position.  I

         3       know George now resides in the -- in Clifton

         4       Park, Saratoga County, but certainly his

         5       upbringing and his training was in my great

         6       county of Nassau County, where he served in

         7       various capacities, for supervisors and county

         8       executives.

         9                      In both instances, George was

        10       involved in the decision-making process that

        11       sometimes in government we don't like to make

        12       but it involves the lives of so many of our

        13       employees, whether it was in the county of

        14       Nassau or the state of New York.  The difficult

        15       decisions were necessary in both instances, but

        16       George always helped make those decisions

        17       working with government, with elected officials,

        18       to really reduce the pain that unfortunately

        19       some people had to endure and keep it at a

        20       minimum.

        21                      George respects the legislative

        22       system.  He respects the political system.  He

        23       respects us as legislators and what we are

        24       required to do.  There's never been a time that

        25       I've written a letter, or any other member that







                                                             
6709

         1       I know of has written a letter to George and has

         2       not received a courteous response even if we

         3       totally did not agree with that response.

         4                      So I'm delighted to get up and

         5       second the nomination of my good friend, George

         6       Sinnott.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Marcellino, on the nomination.

         9                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                      I too would like to rise and echo

        12       my colleagues' Senator Skelos' comments and

        13       Senator Farley's comments on a good friend,

        14       George Sinnott.

        15                      George's work in Nassau County

        16       was almost legendary, and I had many times that

        17       I had to call George on many issues relative to

        18       the civil service system and received a prompt,

        19       courteous and always accurate assessment of the

        20       facts and assessment of the issue.  He's a good

        21       friend to everyone who's ever had to deal with

        22       the system.

        23                      George has done a fantastic job

        24       down in Long Island and will do an excellent job

        25        -- has been doing an excellent job in the state







                                                             
6710

         1       of New York.  Look forward to working with you

         2       for many, many years to come, George.  God

         3       bless!

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         5       any other Senator -- Senator Trunzo, on the

         6       nomination.

         7                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  Mr. President,

         8       as as chairman of the Civil Service and Pensions

         9       Committee, I've had the honor of working with

        10       George for the past two and a half years and

        11       he's done an outstanding job.

        12                      He really went through quite an

        13       itinerary during the Finance Committee and

        14       really all the great things that have been

        15       happening to the Civil Service Department making

        16       it probably one of the best in the United States

        17       and it is a great honor for me to second the

        18       nomination of George Sinnott to continue on as

        19       chairman of the Civil Service Commission.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        21       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        22       nomination?

        23                      Hearing none, the question is on

        24       the nomination of George C. Sinnott, of Clifton

        25       Park, to become a member of the state Service







                                                             
6711

         1       Commission.  All those in favor of the

         2       nomination, signify by saying aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Opposed nay.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The nominee is unanimously

         7       confirmed.

         8                      We're very, very pleased to have

         9       Mr. Sinnott in the chamber to your left with us

        10       today, along with his wife Judy, his daughter

        11       Katie, son Tim, brother Bill, Joe and Adele

        12       Neltz, Barbara Neltz and Hettie Stemmer, who are

        13       all friends.

        14                      So congratulations, George.  Nice

        15       to have such a wonderful following coming along

        16       with you, and good luck.

        17                      (Applause)

        18                      Secretary will continue to read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        20       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        21       following nomination:

        22                      Member of the state Civil Service

        23       Commission, Margaret Dadd, of Attica.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Stafford, on the nomination.







                                                             
6712

         1                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

         2       just once more let me -- and I know sometimes we

         3       sound like we almost overdo it, but I -- I want

         4       to say the two individuals that appeared before

         5       us today, it was just very heartening to have

         6       the quality that we are so pleased to have with

         7       us, and I assure you that Margaret Dadd, from

         8       Wyoming County, who is so ably represented by

         9       Senator Volker, who I will yield to, that I'm

        10       sure she will do the same type of work that

        11       George Sinnott has done on the commission, and

        12       with that, again, I could go on in a positive

        13       nature for too long, and I will not.  I yield

        14       fought Senator from Wyoming.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        16       recognizes Senator Volker, on the nomination.

        17                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President, and thank you, Senator Stafford.  I

        19       appreciate it.

        20                      I'm proud to rise in behalf of

        21       Margaret "Maggie" Dadd, as we affectionately

        22       know her.  She is one of the very nicest people

        23       that I have ever met.  I've known Margaret Dadd

        24       for probably 25 or 30 years.  The law firm that

        25       "Maggie" Dadd is part of is probably one of the







                                                             
6713

         1       most -- certainly one of the most distinguished

         2       law firms in upstate New York and the most

         3       distinguished law firm in Wyoming County.  Her

         4       husband is a Supreme Court judge, and I knew her

         5       father-in-law extremely well, and many other

         6       members of the family, but I think and I

         7       hesitate to say this.  I say it because Mark

         8       Dadd is not here, but I think Margaret Dadd is

         9       the brightest of the entire family.  I can say

        10       that because he isn't here because he'd probably

        11       say something if he was; but she has been a top

        12       notch lawyer, a top-notch community leader.

        13                      There is no question that she is

        14       more than capable of filling this job on the

        15       Civil Service Commission, that, frankly, was so

        16       ably held by Bob Reardon, her predecessor, who

        17       was in that job for some time.

        18                      My congratulations to you and to

        19       the Governor for naming Margaret, of course also

        20       for naming George Sinnott who obviously has been

        21       an enormously important part of the changes that

        22       have gone on in the Civil Service Commission.

        23       There is no doubt in my mind that Margaret Dadd

        24       will prove to be one of the finest civil service

        25       commissioners ever, and I wish you the best and







                                                             
6714

         1       my hearty congratulations to you and to the rest

         2       of the family.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Gold, on the nomination.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yeah, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      As the ranking member of Finance,

         8       I get the privilege of sitting in on these

         9       hearings and they're very interesting, and I

        10       heard this lady discussing her background, and

        11       here is a lovely woman from Wisconsin who went

        12       to school and law school out there and did some

        13       work in the poverty law area, and then discussed

        14       her work as a lawyer in New York and whatever,

        15       and I sat there in total puzzlement and having

        16       the big mouth which I know my Republican

        17       colleagues will agree about, I -- I expressed my

        18       amazement and I said, "You know, I -- I've heard

        19       your background, and the only question I have

        20       was how did you get mixed up with these

        21       Republicans," to which this woman shot right

        22       back at me, "Lucky, I guess," and I don't know

        23       why everybody laughed at that point, but as she

        24       was walking out of the room, the comment I made

        25       was, quotes, This is a classy lady, and I want







                                                             
6715

         1       to tell you, I -- I'm very happy about this

         2       nomination.

         3                      I do not know the woman.  I had

         4       the pleasure of meeting her husband and two of

         5       her children afterwards, but I have the feeling

         6       that our Governor who I believe drops the ball a

         7       lot, certainly did not in this case and I want

         8       to congratulate him on this nomination and wish

         9       the nominee luck.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

        11       any other question or any other Senator wishing

        12       to speak on the nomination?

        13                      Hearing none, the question is on

        14       the nomination of Margaret Dadd, of Attica, New

        15       York, to become a member of the state Civil

        16       Service Commission.  All those in favor of the

        17       nomination, signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The nominee is unanimously

        22       confirmed.

        23                      Margaret has joined us and is in

        24       the gallery to your left, along with her husband

        25       and her children.  Margaret, congratulations and







                                                             
6716

         1       good luck.

         2                      (Applause)

         3                      Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         5       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         6       following nominations:

         7                      Members of the New York State

         8       Hospital Review and Planning Council, Carol

         9       Raphael, of New York City, and Suzanne C. Smith,

        10       of Slingerlands.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Holland, on the nominations.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Move the

        14       nominations, please.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        16       is on the nominations of Carol Raphael and

        17       Suzanne Smith to become members of the Hospital

        18       Review and Planning Council.  All those in favor

        19       of the nominations signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye.")

        21                      Opposed nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The nominees are confirmed.

        24       Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,







                                                             
6717

         1       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         2       following nomination:

         3                      Member of the Medical Advisory

         4       Committee, Ruben Cowart, D.D.S., of Syracuse.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Hoffmann, on the nomination.

         7                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr. President,

         8       I'm very pleased to be able to support the

         9       nomination of Dr. Cowart.  He is well known in

        10       the Syracuse community, both as a member of the

        11       larger community and a very civic-minded

        12       individual as well as an outstanding medical

        13       individual -- medically trained individual who

        14       runs the Syracuse Neighborhood Health Center and

        15       has for a number of years.

        16                      He has distinguished himself

        17       among his medical colleagues as well as among

        18       people in the community.  He originally received

        19       his training at St. Augustine College in North

        20       Carolina, did his medical work at Howard

        21       University and has done graduate work in a

        22       number of specialties through the State

        23       University system here in New York State.

        24                      He served as a Lieutenant Colonel

        25       in the United States Army Reserve and has many,







                                                             
6718

         1       many experiences on about an eight-page vita

         2       which would take too long for us to enumerate

         3       today, but I would commend him as a highly

         4       qualified individual and a very fine individual

         5       as well, fine gentleman as well, to all of my

         6       colleagues and urge that he be supported.

         7                      Thank you.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

         9       Senator wishing to speak on the nomination?

        10                      Hearing none, the question is on

        11       the nomination of Ruben Cowart to become a

        12       member of the Medical Advisory Committee.  All

        13       those in favor of the nomination signify by

        14       saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response.)

        18                      The nominee is confirmed.

        19       Secretary will continue to read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        21       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        22       following nomination:

        23                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        24       of the Finger Lakes Developmental Disabilities

        25       Services Office:  Bernice Ziehm, of Webster.







                                                             
6719

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         2       is on the nomination.  All those in favor

         3       signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The nominee is confirmed.

         8       Secretary will continue to read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nomination:

        12                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        13       of the Letchworth Village Developmental

        14       Disabilities Services Office:  Jane Clucas, of

        15       Piermont.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        17       is on the nomination.  All those in favor

        18       signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The nominee is confirmed.

        23       Secretary will continue to read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        25       from the Committee on Finance, reports the







                                                             
6720

         1       following nomination:

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the Rockland Psychiatric Center, Rocco C.

         4       Giacobbe, of Nyack.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         6       is on the nomination.  All those in favor

         7       signify by saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nominee is confirmed.

        12       Senator Holland.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        14       now that Senator Leichter is here, can we go

        15       back to today's calendar and take up 865,

        16       please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        18       return to the original calendar of the day,

        19       Calendar Number 60.  Secretary will read

        20       Calendar Number 865.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       865, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4595, an

        23       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and

        24       others, in relation to the powers of the State

        25       University security officers.







                                                             
6721

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Saland, an explanation has been requested of

         4       Calendar Number 865, by Senator Leichter.

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      Mr. President, what this bill

         8       would do would be to enable State University

         9       security officers to be designated as police

        10       officers and, in that capacity, their status

        11       quite obviously would change.

        12                      The bill has countless memos of

        13       support, probably I would say at least four to

        14       five dozen from various and sundry police and

        15       sheriffs and student organizations, and -- and

        16       I'm prepared to respond to Senator Leichter's

        17       questions.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you,

        21       Senator Saland.  I appreciate your yielding.  I

        22       do have one or two questions.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Saland, do you yield?  Senator Saland, do you

        25       yield?







                                                             
6722

         1                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       yields.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, what

         6       training do these campus security police

         7       officers have?

         8                      SENATOR SALAND:  They currently

         9       receive rather vigorous training, in excess of

        10       500 hours of training which is conducted, I

        11       believe, at one of the municipal academies.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, how

        13       does that training compare with the training for

        14       a regular police officer?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  I believe it is

        16       as rigorous as that, although I can't quantify

        17       it, Franz.  I believe it is as rigorous as that

        18       provided, I'm told anecdotally that it's as

        19       rigorous as that provided to police officers,

        20       but I couldn't give you the corresponding number

        21       of hours that are provided for the municipal

        22       police.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        24       Saland, if you'd continued to yield, please.

        25                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, sir.







                                                             
6723

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Saland, do you continue to yield? Senator

         3       yields.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, is

         5       there one academy where all of the University

         6       security officers receive their training or does

         7       each institution have its own academy?  My

         8       concern is -- is purely as to whether we're

         9       going to have people that are adequately -

        10       adequately trained.  They have police powers;

        11       those are very extensive.  They carry guns, and

        12       so on.  I think we just ought to be assured that

        13       they have the proper training.

        14                      SENATOR SALAND:  I have in my

        15       file, Senator Leichter, a breakdown of what the

        16       training consists of, and it consists of some 11

        17       parts, totalling 531 hours.  I can't tell you

        18       with absolute certainty that it's conducted at

        19       one site.  I was -- it was my understanding that

        20       it was, but I would not want you to accept that

        21       as gospel.  I -- I do believe it is, but I -- I

        22       can't tell you that with absolute certainty.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        24       Saland.

        25                      SENATOR SALAND:  May I also share







                                                             
6724

         1       with you, which touches upon the subject you've

         2       just raised, a copy of a letter which I've

         3       received from the Chancellor, John Ryan, of the

         4       State University which was sent to Edward Gosdek

         5       of the Police Conference, in which he informs

         6       Mr. Gosdek that the State University is willing

         7       to engage the Police Conference in the review of

         8       the written protocols between the University and

         9       municipalities in which the campuses are located

        10       as such protocols are submitted by the campuses

        11       to systems administration, and goes on to dwell

        12       at greater length on the desire to be

        13       cooperative with the Police Conference.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Leichter.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, Senator

        17       Saland, if you would bear with me just a moment

        18       because I have a letter from Chancellor Ryan

        19       which he sent me.  I'm just trying to make sure,

        20       Senator, I think all of us ought to be concerned

        21       about it, that these people have adequate

        22       training.  You say that you think it's

        23       comparable.

        24                      SENATOR SALAND:  May I interrupt

        25       you.  I've just been advised by staff that they







                                                             
6725

         1       do go through the municipal police training

         2       course, and I've heard that from a greater

         3       authority as well, Senator Volker.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if

         5       you would continue to yield.

         6                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Saland, do you continue to yield? The Senator

        10       continues to yield.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  The sheriffs

        12       are opposing this designation.  We really

        13       haven't had a chance to review their reason for

        14       it.

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  I noted that

        16       with interest, because I would say without

        17       exaggeration, on the list of supporters here we

        18       probably have at least four or five or perhaps

        19       more sheriffs departments among the multitude of

        20       law enforcement organizations that are

        21       supporting this bill, and I also have the copies

        22       of their respective letters or memos in support,

        23       and the support, incidentally, seems to be

        24       coming from -- overwhelmingly from law

        25       enforcement organizations in the communities







                                                             
6726

         1       where these SUNY campuses are located, although

         2       that's not exclusively coming from those

         3       communities.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leichter.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

         7       Saland will continue to yield.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       continues to yield.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I have a memo

        15       in opposition that was sent by Peter Kehoe in

        16       behalf of his sheriffs.  One argument that he

        17       makes is that he interprets your bill to

        18       authorize these campus security officials to

        19       carry guns at all times irrespective of whether

        20       or not the university president desires that

        21       they carry guns.

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  I respectfully

        23       submit that Mr. Kehoe is in error, that the

        24       governing language that would control the right

        25       to carry would be found in the Education Law,







                                                             
6727

         1       Section 6450, which clearly puts that, or

         2       reposes that responsibility in the trustees or

         3       the governing board of the respective college

         4       campuses, and right now, the overwhelming

         5       majority of those campuses permit their

         6       personnel to carry, not all of them, but the

         7       vast majority of them do.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         9       finally, the reason you give for this bill and I

        10       guess the request by SUNY to create these police

        11       officers on campuses, they say that campus crime

        12       has become a significant problem throughout this

        13       state.

        14                      You know, we have certain

        15       shibboleths, certain myths, sometimes actually

        16       they're not myths, they turn out to be based on

        17       fact.  I don't know whether that's so.  We've

        18       seen crime decline throughout New York State.

        19       Are you telling us at the same time that it's

        20       increasing on the campuses of the State

        21       University?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  I would be

        23       reluctant to tell you that I've seen the current

        24       data for the past year or two.  The -- probably

        25       three or four years ago, Senator Leichter, I







                                                             
6728

         1       chaired a task force which dealt with issues of

         2       campus crime and campus security, and one of the

         3       constant themes which I heard in each locale in

         4       which we took testimony was the need to, in

         5       effect, convert the current security system to a

         6       police system.  It was embraced by virtually

         7       everybody, whether it be people representing the

         8       student population, whether it be law

         9       enforcement personnel, whether it be

        10       professional staff.

        11                      I'm reluctant in the absence of

        12       hard data to say yes, the numbers have gone up

        13       but what I can tell you is that the numbers I

        14       have seen have shown a considerable amount of

        15       theft, a considerable amount of -- of property

        16       crimes, a considerable amount of assaultive

        17       crime including -- including a number of sexual

        18       offenses, and the sense was that it was rather

        19       difficult for non-police personnel to

        20       effectively respond to a number of these

        21       situations.  Often they would be required to

        22       wait to bring in from off campus police

        23       personnel, and I believe this mechanism will

        24       provide for greater security on campus and

        25       really I think a greater comfort level for all







                                                             
6729

         1       people who might be on campus whether they be

         2       students, staff or employees.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Leichter.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Saland,

         6       if you would continue to yield.  Presently these

         7       security personnel are receiving the training

         8       that you mentioned, is that -- is that correct?

         9                      SENATOR SALAND:  They are

        10       receiving the five hundred -

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  And they will

        12       receive the exact same training if your bill

        13       becomes law and they become actual police

        14       officers?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm not quite

        16       sure what additional bells and whistles they

        17       will receive, but they are currently getting

        18       what is the municipal police officer training.

        19       I think the change in status may not necessarily

        20        -- may not necessitate any particularly

        21       lengthier or extensive type of training.

        22                      The purpose of the change in

        23       status is to provide greater law enforcement

        24       ability on campus, and in turn obviously greater

        25       security on campus.







                                                             
6730

         1                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         2       on the bill.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Leichter, on the bill.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I thank

         6       Senator Saland for his answers.  I'm just not

         7       convinced.  I'm not convinced on two grounds,

         8       that we should create these university police

         9       officers.

        10                      First of all, I don't know that

        11       there's a pressing need.  I don't know that

        12       there is a problem.  Senator Saland conceded

        13       that he had no particular figures which

        14       indicated a large increase in crime.  He did

        15       refer to acts that have occurred that maybe

        16       could be better handled if security personnel

        17       had the powers of police officers.

        18                      I don't know whether that, to my

        19       mind, is sufficient justification to put police

        20       officers on the campus on a full-time basis.  I

        21       hate to think of a campus university setting as

        22       a place, you know, where we could avoid the need

        23       of having police officers.  I realize some of

        24       that is illusory.  Problems occur; situations

        25       arise, but I'm not so sure that the police







                                                             
6731

         1       personnel that presently service those campuses

         2       that provide the security are inadequate to do

         3       it.

         4                      Secondly, I'm concerned about

         5       giving people the status of police officers when

         6       they don't have a training that, to my mind,

         7       convinces me that it's every bit as thorough, as

         8       complete, as carefully done as for other police

         9       officers.  Obviously being a police officer is a

        10       very responsible position, requires to my mind

        11       extensive training, and I'm not sure that that's

        12       occurring in this instance.

        13                      I don't see that we advance the

        14       safety of the people of the state of New York or

        15       the students and staff of the universities by

        16       passing this bill.  I'm going to vote in the

        17       negative.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Oppenheimer.

        20                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I'd like to

        21       speak briefly on the bill.

        22                      Like Senator Saland, I had my

        23       Senate Democratic Task Force on Women's Issues

        24       go around the state about five years ago on the

        25       subject of violent crimes on campuses and, of







                                                             
6732

         1       course, we were talking mainly about violent

         2       crime against women and most of that was -- was

         3       rape and sexual assault, and we came to the

         4       similar conclusions that Senator Saland did,

         5       that there was a need to, or have police powers

         6       for the officers on campus.

         7                      One of the main reasons was that

         8       the campus officers could not go off campus

         9       where many of the residents -- the residences of

        10       the students was -- that's not good English, but

        11        -- were, and therefore, they couldn't follow up

        12       on the crime because the crime in essence was

        13       committed off the campus even though the people

        14       involved were on-campus people.

        15                      We had made a number of

        16       recommendations which I think would also help

        17       with this problem.  We found that the incidence

        18       of rape or sexual assault was perhaps the most

        19       under-reported crime in the world on campuses.

        20       We found that almost nobody was reporting it.

        21       We are happy to say that now five years later,

        22       we hear that more people are coming forth,

        23       particularly women are coming forth and stating

        24       what the problem is.

        25                      Our thought was that, in addition







                                                             
6733

         1       to increasing the police powers, that if there

         2       where are a discussion during orientation, and I

         3       would like Senator Saland to look at this

         4       suggestion, if during orientation, the young

         5       students age 17 and 18, who probably never have

         6       been on their own before, explained exactly what

         7       the consequences are, that a felony is a felony

         8       whether it is on a campus or off a campus, that

         9       there should be an explanation of a certain

        10       sensitivity and understanding and listening to

        11       people so that when a woman says "no", be she a

        12       student or not, that she means no, and that they

        13       ought to be able to have dialogue.

        14                      We further talked about having

        15       rape crisis centers and victim centers on campus

        16       which has been done in many of our state schools

        17       but there were a variety of proposals and we

        18       will try and see them to fruition, but this is

        19       certainly one of them, that the officers on

        20       campus needed further power, so I'm very

        21       supportive of this bill.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Hoffmann.

        24                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

        25       President.







                                                             
6734

         1                      I wonder if Senator Saland would

         2       yield to a question.

         3                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you,

         6       Senator Saland.

         7                      The bill does not convey any

         8       information that I can determine about cost

         9       either to the state or to the SUNY system

        10       specifically.  I wonder if you could elaborate

        11       to us a little bit what costs you might

        12       anticipate.

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm glad you

        14       raised that point because it helps me to respond

        15       to a question that I didn't or was unable to

        16       respond to which was posed by Senator Leichter a

        17       bit earlier.

        18                      I can't quantify what that amount

        19       of money would be.  We're advised and have

        20       included in the bill memo, that there would be

        21       modest budgetary implications at the outset due

        22       to the need for a transition training program

        23       which reflects these additional duties which

        24       again, in part responds to Senator Leichter and

        25       while I'm up, Senator Leichter, and while it's







                                                             
6735

         1       not responsive to your question, Senator

         2       Hoffmann, I have been presented with data which

         3       I'd be very happy to share with you which does

         4       show, while certainly necessarily uniform in

         5       terms of each category of crime, increases in

         6       crime particularly some of the more violent

         7       crimes at the campuses and university centers

         8       throughout the system.

         9                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      If Senator Saland would continue

        12       to yield to one or two more brief questions.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        18       yields.

        19                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      It's not related directly to this

        22       particular bill, but I wonder if you have

        23       studied the question raised by the Sheriffs

        24       Association about changing the retirement

        25       status, the pension status of existing deputy







                                                             
6736

         1       sheriffs across the state.

         2                      SENATOR SALAND:  Well, this

         3       certainly doesn't deal with that bill and I am

         4       certainly not really sympathetic to but

         5       supportive of the deputy sheriffs in their

         6       endeavor to get that change, and the fact that

         7       police officers have that status and deputies

         8       don't, I find rather troublesome inasmuch as

         9       what often may happen is that people will be

        10       trained as deputies and when an opportunity

        11       creates -- is created in a police environment of

        12       20-year retirement these people, who have been

        13       trained by a county department, will very often

        14       leave to go to that opportunity, so I'm

        15       extremely sympathetic but don't think that the

        16       SUNY -- this SUNY bill should be prejudiced or

        17       held hostage because of the fact that, you know,

        18       the deputy sheriffs haven't attained that

        19       retirement system yet.

        20                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  O.K. Thank

        21       you, Senator Saland.  I -- my final question

        22       which I think you anticipated would be why, if

        23       it's un... if it's unfair currently for existing

        24       deputy sheriffs to receive the 20-year

        25       retirement rights to which they believe they are







                                                             
6737

         1       entitled and which other law enforcement are,

         2       what then would be the logical cost we would

         3       expect of similarly extending that same benefit

         4       to this category of officers, since their

         5       responsibilities would have become virtually the

         6       same?

         7                      SENATOR SALAND:  Well, what we're

         8       talking about is not providing SUNY police with

         9       deputy sheriff's status.  I'm seeing in a number

        10       of the memos that I've had the opportunity to

        11       look at that there have been occasions in which

        12       at various times one or another county sheriff

        13       may have deputized SUNY public safety officers

        14       for purposes of an investigation, but what we're

        15       talking about is giving them police status, and

        16       there are certain benefits that flow from that

        17       police status that are purely incidental to that

        18       status, and I don't think for one moment that

        19       county sheriffs, and for that matter assumedly

        20       deputy sheriffs, are eager to have their status

        21       changed from that of deputy sheriff or sheriff

        22       to police officer.  What they're eager to

        23       accomplish is to have the same type of benefits

        24       that are provided by way of retirement to police

        25       officers and the fact that that maybe be







                                                             
6738

         1       extended to the -- what would become the SUNY

         2       police really is almost incidental and in no way

         3       prejudicial to deputy sheriffs.

         4                      I believe that we're talking

         5       basically apples and oranges here.

         6                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you,

         7       Senator Saland.  On the bill.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Hoffmann, on the bill.

        10                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  This is a very

        11       nettlesome issue, and I sympathize with Senator

        12       Oppenheimer and commend her and the task force

        13       which she convened for having explored the issue

        14       of violence against women as it affects young

        15       women on university campuses across the state.

        16                      I do not believe, however, that

        17       this is the most logical response or the only

        18       response to that issue.  I would hope that we

        19       would address that in a more comprehensive way

        20       and outline the many questions that this bill

        21       raises before we rush pell-mell into increasing

        22       the police officer status of our SUNY officers,

        23       because I believe it raises as many questions

        24       and sets a scenario up for some considerable

        25       cost and complications in the law enforcement







                                                             
6739

         1       field that have not been thoroughly

         2       anticipated.

         3                      I have to say that initially I

         4       had supported a number of measures like this and

         5       over the last decade or so we have had many

         6       institutions in the SUNY system come before us

         7       requesting peace officer status for their

         8       officers, and I have supported those, by and

         9       large including on the campuses which I

        10       represent in the 48th Senate District.

        11                      I've watched the evolution of

        12       this change with some interest and -- and a bit

        13       of dismay because it has been apparent that it

        14       has not been the qualified success that we

        15       expected at the outset, and I would just like to

        16       cite Morrisville campus in the middle of Madison

        17       County as one example.

        18                      Initially, the faculty

        19       overwhelmingly opposed arming the security force

        20       on that campus.  There was no active opposition

        21       within the rest of the community, but there was

        22       also another situation happening on a parallel

        23       basis which has some frame of reference to what

        24       we're debating today, and that is the -- the

        25       operation of a police force, a private police







                                                             
6740

         1       force, by the Oneida Indian Nation, and the

         2       Oneida Indian Nation initially had a great deal

         3       of support from or some support from both the

         4       Madison and the Oneida County law enforcement

         5       associations.  That has diminished along with

         6       the elected officials in both of those counties

         7       who initially opposed -- encouraged, excuse me,

         8       encouraged the police officer status -- the

         9       peace officer status of those -- those agencies

        10       and there are now people in both Madison and

        11       Oneida County who voice some regret at having

        12       extended the law enforcement privileges to a

        13       group of men and women who are not accountable

        14       directly to the public, and I think that that

        15       argument relative to this massive peace officer

        16       status off campus for SUNY officers is really

        17       very well summarized in a memo from the New York

        18       State Sheriffs Association.

        19                      The memo from Peter Kehoe reads,

        20       and I'd just like to excerpt one section on that

        21       subject, that there is a -- there is a danger

        22       because SUNY police officers will be appointed

        23       by a member of the education bureaucracy who is

        24       in no way accountable to the general citizenry.

        25       It is a very dangerous thing to give the state's







                                                             
6741

         1       police powers to officers who are shielded from

         2       accountability to the public by layers of

         3       bureaucrats, none of whom anywhere in the chain

         4       are chosen by the electorate, and I think that

         5       we really should take heed to the scenario that

         6       this sets up.

         7                      Private police forces are an

         8       anathema in this country.  They hearken back to

         9       the days of goon squads hired by coal mine

        10       owners to go and bust up union organizing

        11       activities in the coal mines, and I think that

        12       we have become very enlightened in the last 10

        13       or 15 years on this subject, and we demand the

        14       ultimate in accountability from people in law

        15       enforcement.

        16                      Sheriffs in this state are

        17       elected.  Police chiefs are appointed by the

        18       highest elected officials in the executive

        19       branch of government and the municipality in

        20       which they serve.  This would mark a dramatic

        21       change from that accountability concept, and I

        22       don't believe it is one in which we should enter

        23       lightly.

        24                      But the other issue and one which

        25       I queried Senator Saland about, that I think is







                                                             
6742

         1       extremely timely right now, is the matter of

         2       cost, and the scenario that we would appear to

         3       be setting up whereby a whole host of police

         4       officers operating on the SUNY campuses would

         5       feel the same entitlement to which deputy

         6       sheriffs presently believe they are entitled,

         7       and that is a pension system and a retirement

         8       option which they have been denied.

         9                      Now, if the deputy sheriffs have

        10       lobbied year after year and come to the state

        11       Legislature seeking this benefit and been turned

        12       down ostensibly for a cost factor, then why

        13       would this same state Legislature create a

        14       situation where another whole group of

        15       individuals would feel a similar disparity, an

        16       equal disparity, and again I'd like to cite from

        17       the Sheriffs Association of the state of New

        18       York, because I think that that memo outlines it

        19       very well.

        20                      The memo reads, This bill will

        21       entail a considerable cost to the state.  The

        22       SUNY memo in support admits that additional

        23       training will be required, but attaches no cost

        24       to that, and again Senator Saland was not able

        25       to give us a cost figure on that.  Additionally,







                                                             
6743

         1       there will be the cost of the change-over of all

         2       uniform launch equipment to the police

         3       designation.  We have no cost figure for that.

         4       There will be the cost of providing weapons to

         5       all of the newly created police officers and

         6       there will be the permanent ongoing cost of new

         7       salaries for the upgraded positions since police

         8       officers are not going to work for peace officer

         9       pay and police officer supervisors are not going

        10       to supervise police officers for the same pay

        11       they receive for supervising peace officers, and

        12       then Mr. Kehoe goes into the most compelling

        13       argument of all that we really should be

        14       considering here.

        15                      At a time when we have not been

        16       able to formulate a budget of the state of New

        17       York, this would be an enormous potential cost

        18       and the responsibility would clearly be on us to

        19       do the right thing, which would be to give the

        20       retirement and pension benefits to these

        21       officers much as we have a responsibility to

        22       give them to the deputy sheriffs of the state.

        23       Mr. Kehoe writes, And most expensive of all

        24       would be the cost of providing the non

        25       contributory 20-year and out at half pay benefit







                                                             
6744

         1       to all those newly created police officers with

         2       a huge retroactive payment in the many millions

         3       of dollars, and a large permanent ongoing

         4       increased employer contribution.  Although the

         5       bill does not mention the retirement issue at

         6       all, it doesn't take much thinking to realize

         7       that the union representing these new police

         8       officers cannot stand by and let these police

         9       officers be subjected to the current

        10       contributory age, 62, ERS retirement plan, when

        11       all the rest of the state-employed police

        12       officers they represent have a non-contributory

        13       20-year and out plan.

        14                      So I urge my colleagues to weigh

        15       very carefully the cost and the fairness factor

        16       in this matter.  I recognize we have before us a

        17       measure in support of this measure from Council

        18       82, which would be the -- the host union for

        19       these newly created officers.  Obviously Council

        20       82, for whom I have the highest degree of

        21       respect and represent many members in my

        22       district at several of the state penal

        23       institutions, Council 82's membership would

        24       increase dramatically by the addition of these

        25       new police officers in that union, but I find it







                                                             
6745

         1       interesting that in contrast, sharp contrast to

         2       the memorandum of Council 82, both the Police

         3       Conference of the state of New York and the New

         4       York State Sheriffs Association, which represent

         5       other law enforcement officials charged with the

         6       responsibility that these officers would be

         7       entrusted with, strongly -- and I emphasize

         8       strongly -- oppose this measure.

         9                      So I want to commend Senator

        10       Saland for having addressed this issue, but I

        11       don't believe that we have gone far enough in

        12       our analysis and I think that it would be

        13       imprudent at best at a time when we have not

        14       treated with fairness the New York State

        15       deputies who would like to have equal treatment

        16       under the law, for us to set up a scenario where

        17       a whole group of new individuals would be

        18       subjected to the same unequal treatment and the

        19       potential cost would be borne by the SUNY system

        20       for increased contributions in the future and

        21       obviously by the state of New York, for making

        22       available that retroactive payment.

        23                      So I would urge my colleagues to

        24       give this more opportunity to be analyzed, and I

        25       think that we could come back, Senator Saland,







                                                             
6746

         1       with a better bill at a different time that

         2       would accomplish what Senator Saland seeks and

         3       what Senator Oppenheimer spoke of in terms of

         4       increased enforcement capabilities outside when

         5       needed, outside a college campus when needed, in

         6       conjunction with local law enforcement rules and

         7       regulations and pay scales.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

         9       recognizes Senator Volker.

        10                      SENATOR VOLKER:  This is always a

        11       little bit awkward, I guess, for me because this

        12       is a turf issue involving law enforcement

        13       people, and I know all the individuals involved

        14       here, but there's -- and I think there's a

        15       little bit of confusion here that probably

        16       should be cleared up.

        17                      First of all, the new SUNY police

        18       officers will be the only instance in that

        19       section of the law where they are not fully

        20       police officers.  They are only police officers

        21       on campus and on the immediate highways that run

        22       through the campus and in the immediate region.

        23       They can not, in fact, as I understand it, carry

        24       guns off the campus except in pursuit of their

        25       powers in relation to campus duties, a major







                                                             
6747

         1       difference.

         2                      Secondly, and part of the problem

         3       here, is that some local mayors around SUNY

         4       campuses have begun making some pronouncements

         5       about using SUNY police officers in their

         6       cities.  Well, I have news for them.  They can't

         7       because once they get off the campuses they no

         8       longer of the powers of police officers.  They

         9       then would have peace officer status.

        10                      The next issue is the issue of

        11       training.  One of the interesting things here is

        12       that some of the SUNY peace officers now

        13       ironically have more training than some -- in

        14       some of the areas than the local law enforcement

        15       people do because the local campuses have been

        16       very, very strong in making sure that these

        17       people get the most training possible.

        18                      And Senator Leichter's question

        19       about violence on campuses, I think probably

        20       there's been somewhat of a decline over the last

        21       several years in some of the urban campuses,

        22       just as there has been a decline in violence and

        23       in crime in a lot of the urban areas and

        24       suburban areas, and so forth.  But there is a

        25       lot of studies done and Senator LaValle, if my







                                                             
6748

         1       recollection is correct and I believe I was on a

         2       task force that toured the state on the issue of

         3       violence, and I think Senator Saland was on that

         4       task force also some years ago, and showed an

         5       increasing and an alarming number of crimes,

         6       particularly on urban campuses, but not

         7       exclusively to urban campuses, even some of the

         8       rural campuses were seeing that rise and that

         9       really is what has spawned this new attempt to

        10       deal with problems on the campuses.

        11                      This bill represents, in a sense,

        12       a middle ground in an attempt to find a way to

        13       provide the best possible law enforcement on the

        14       campuses themselves.  The issue of cost is kind

        15       of interesting.  They talk about new uniforms.

        16       I believe it would be patches.  I'm not so sure

        17       personally that patches -- what people don't

        18       realize is, if you haven't been on a SUNY urban

        19       campus recently, I think you'll find out they

        20       already have some pretty substantial uniforms.

        21       Some carry guns, some don't, and by the way that

        22       will probably continue, because this bill

        23       although it enables them to carry guns, it

        24       doesn't necessarily mean, as I understand it, if

        25       the SUNY president decides that he would prefer







                                                             
6749

         1       they don't although virtually every urban campus

         2       now I think because of some of the violence that

         3       has occurred, the peace officers that are there

         4       now already carry guns.  They're already

         5       trained, they already go to school, and they

         6       will continue to be.

         7                      I think unfortunately, and I'm

         8       reluctant to say this, but the sheriffs

         9       representative has this idea in his head that

        10       somehow it was Council 82 and the people that

        11       represent these people that caused the sheriffs

        12       deputies not to get their retirement plan.  I

        13       know that's not true, and I have a pretty good

        14       idea.  I know why they have been unable to.

        15       I've been a supporter of it.  This house has

        16       been a supporter of that plan but it hasn't

        17       happened.  I won't get into why, but it hasn't

        18       been Council 82, and it hasn't been the SUNY

        19       people that created this, and, by the way, this

        20       bill by itself does not create a pension plan

        21       for SUNY police officers and there is no

        22       indication at this time, at least I'm not aware

        23       of any indication that they will get into the

        24       20-year non-contributory pension plan that is

        25       discussed here.







                                                             
6750

         1                      So I think here's the problem.

         2       The problem is this is a bill that limits the

         3       authority of the people who have been named SUNY

         4       police officers only to the campus and to its

         5       immediate environs.  Some of the opposition

         6       here, and I understand it, I'm a former local

         7       law enforcement officer, and I know the problems

         8       that occur, the turf battles.  One thing you

         9       should understand about the sheriffs.  The

        10       sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of

        11       any immediate area and right now he is the chief

        12       law enforcement officer of all the campuses

        13       because he's head of it.

        14                      With this bill he will not be the

        15       chief law enforcement officer right on that

        16       campus and that is a little bit of a problem

        17       with some of the sheriffs, and I guess I

        18       understand that.  He still, though, has

        19       authority there and if a SUNY police officer

        20       goes off campus, he will -- they will still

        21       provide the assistance.  The SUNY police officer

        22       will need the assistance of these people to

        23       perform their duties because they don't have the

        24       authority to do it for the most part off the

        25       campus, so I only point that out.







                                                             
6751

         1                      I personally do not believe that

         2       there's going to be huge costs involved here.  I

         3       realize that there is some jurisdictional

         4       problems involved here, but I think this is a

         5       move, particularly for our urban campuses,

         6       towards doing something I think is really

         7       necessary to get control of some of the problems

         8       that have occurred within the SUNY system.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 20.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the first day of the

        13       sixth month next succeeding the date.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        18       the negatives and announce the results.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 865 are Senators

        21       Hoffmann, Montgomery, Sampson, Smith and

        22       Stavisky.  Ayes 52, nays 5.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       the passed.

        25                      Senator Holland.







                                                             
6752

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         2       can we return to motions and resolutions for a

         3       moment.  I have been -- there's been a

         4       suggestion by Senator Larkin that three of the

         5       resolutions that we previously passed ought to

         6       be opened up for the opportunity for all

         7       Senators going on.  They are 1974, by Senator

         8       Skelos, which is breast cancer awareness month

         9       in the state of New York; 1982, by Senator

        10       Skelos, the 75th anniversary of the National

        11       Council of Jewish Women, and 2007, by Senator

        12       Meier, which is National Pearl Harbor

        13       Remembrance Day.  Could we open them up?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are all

        15       the sponsors willing to accept additional

        16       co-sponsors?

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I'm sure they

        18       are, yes, sir.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Could we

        20       follow the same procedure that we have in the

        21       past by putting all the members on those

        22       resolutions except those members who indicate

        23       they do not wish to be on them?

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND: Please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I will







                                                             
6753

         1       direct the Secretary to add all those members'

         2       names to those resolutions, those resolutions

         3       being, for the benefit of the members,

         4       Resolution Number 1974, Resolution Number 1982

         5       and Resolution 2007.

         6                      Senator Hoffmann, why do you

         7       rise?

         8                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr. President,

         9       I was out of the chamber at the time Calendar

        10       1509 was called up.  I would request unanimous

        11       consent to be recorded in the negative.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        13       any objection and hearing no objection, Senator

        14       Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative on

        15       Calendar Number 1509.

        16                      Senator Holland?  Senator

        17       Oppenheimer.

        18                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        19       Senator Larkin has a privileged resolution at

        20       the desk.  Can we read the title only and adopt

        21       that resolution, please.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the title of the privileged resolution

        24       by Senator Larkin which is at the desk.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator







                                                             
6754

         1       Larkin, Legislative Resolution honoring James

         2       Sterling Gozaway upon his selection as Grand

         3       Marshal of the 1997 town of Highland's

         4       Independence Day Parade.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         6       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

         7       signify by saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The resolution is adopted.

        12                      Senator Oppenheimer, why do you

        13       rise?

        14                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I would

        15       like unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        16       negative on Calendar Number 1509, please.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        18       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        19       Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on

        20       Calendar 1509.

        21                      Senator Holland.

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        23       can we go to Supplemental Calendar 60-B and do

        24       the non-controversial calendar, please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6755

         1       will read the non-controversial reading of

         2       Calendar 60-B, Supplemental Calendar 60-B, which

         3       is on the members' desks.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1481, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1937,

         6       an act to amend the State Finance Law and

         7       others, in relation to establishing.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        11       act shall take effect on the first day of

        12       April.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        14       roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

        20       rise?

        21                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would

        22       like to explain my vote.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       DeFrancisco to explain his vote on Calendar

        25       Number 1481.







                                                             
6756

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I'm very

         2       pleased to see that there is unanimous approval

         3       of this legislation which I'm sure everyone

         4       recognizes is an extremely important piece of

         5       legislation for the state of New York in that it

         6       creates a designated fund for the promotion of

         7       the state of New York through its tourism

         8       offices, and this dedicated fund comes out of

         9       existing state revenues from the sales tax that

        10       we're now receiving from hotels and eating

        11       establishments, and it's extremely important

        12       because every year with late budgets and things

        13       where we can not predict what kind of monies are

        14       going to be available in future years, there is

        15       a formula upon which the tourism industry can

        16       plan and provide a promotion campaign during the

        17       seasons where it's most important, especially

        18       the summer season.

        19                      Also we'll start increasing the

        20       money used for tourism promotion in the state of

        21       New York which at one time was at a high of 21

        22       plus million dollars in promotion and now it's

        23       down to about $14.5 million.  This would

        24       immediately increase the amount to almost $16

        25       million.  How you promote the second biggest







                                                             
6757

         1       industry of the state of New York is how it goes

         2       and that's why it's extremely important to

         3       promote it and to maintain this important

         4       economic development vehicle in the state of New

         5       York.

         6                      So I thank all of you for your

         7       unanimous support of this legislation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       DeFrancisco recorded in the affirmative.  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      Secretary will continue to read

        12       the non-controversial Supplemental Calendar B.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1482, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2615-A,

        15       an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

        16       city of New York and the Retirement and Social

        17       Security Law.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Just before we

        23       get into debate on that bill may I have unani

        24       mous consent to be recorded in the negative -

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  No, we







                                                             
6758

         1       have a bill before the house, Senator.  You're

         2       out of order.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  All right.

         4       I'll wait until the end then.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Now, Senator Leichter.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes, thank

        17       you, Mr. President.

        18                      With unanimous consent may I

        19       please be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        20       Number 865.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        23       Leichter will be recorded in the negative on

        24       Calendar Number 865.

        25                      Secretary will continue to read







                                                             
6759

         1       the non-controversial Supplemental B calendar.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Wright

         3       moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules

         4       Assembly Bill Number 1045 and substitute it for

         5       the identical Third Reading Calendar 1483.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         7       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1483, by member of the Assembly Schimminger,

        10       Assembly Print 1045, an act to amend the

        11       Economic Development Law, in relation to

        12       encouraging.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        14       will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2. This

        16       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        18       roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1484, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4395-A,

        25       an act to amend the Administrative Code of the







                                                             
6760

         1       city of New York, in relation to credit.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         3       a home rule message at the desk.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1485, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4514-A, an

         9       act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

        10       common trust funds.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        16       roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Farley, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Explain my

        23       vote.

        24                      Mr. President, you know, the

        25       reason for this, and I -- this is important that







                                                             
6761

         1       I do this in explaining my vote.  A controversy

         2       has recently arisen regarding Section 100 (c) of

         3       the Banking Law that requires trustees of common

         4       trust funds to absorb mutual fund expenses.

         5                      This bill was intended to clarify

         6       Section 100 (c), and does not and never has so

         7       required.  It is the legislative intent that the

         8       trustees thereof should not be subject to

         9       liability for prudent investment in mutual funds

        10       whether made in the past or the future.

        11                      This is consistent with the

        12       Banking Department's interpretation and policy

        13       on 100 (c).

        14                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  How do you vote?

        18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I vote aye.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1486, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4933, an

        21       act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in

        22       relation to -

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        25       bill aside temporarily.







                                                             
6762

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1487, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4974, an

         3       act to enact the Health Care Embassy Match Act

         4       of 1977.

         5                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Lay aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1488, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5016-A, an

        10       act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        11       exempting.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        13       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

        14       Secretary will read the last section.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:

        18       Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        20       bill aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1489, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5025-A, an

        23       act to amend the Parks, Recreation and Historic

        24       Preservation Law, in relation to establishing.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6763

         1       will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the first day of

         4       April.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1490, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5071

        13       C, an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

        14       enacting the Unpaid Wages Prohibition Act.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        20       roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6764

         1       1494, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 5414,

         2       an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

         3       to prohibiting a school district.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         5       will read the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         9       roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1497, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        16       Print 5604.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      Senator Holland, that completes

        20       the non-controversial reading of Supplemental

        21       Calendar B.  What's your pleasure?

        22                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

        23       can we do the controversial reading of this

        24       supplemental calendar, please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6765

         1       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         2       find their chairs.

         3                      Senator Holland.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         5       on Supplemental Calendar 60-B, can we take up

         6       Senator Maltese's bill, 1484, please.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1484 on

         9       Calendar B, Supplemental Calendar B.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1484, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4395-A,

        12       an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

        13       city of New York, in relation to credit.

        14                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Explanation.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Maltese, an explanation has been requested of

        17       Calendar Number 1484 by both Senator Stachowski

        18       and Senator Leichter.

        19                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        20       this bill would give certain firefighters who

        21       are former police officers credit for the

        22       purpose of eligibility for time spent as a New

        23       York City Police officer trainee.

        24                      This would amend the law to

        25       clarify that time spent as a police officer







                                                             
6766

         1       trainee would qualify a firefighter and his

         2       years of service toward the fund benefits.  The

         3       justification is that it is equitable that

         4       former members of the police trainee program of

         5       the city of New York Police Department be

         6       granted full service credit for their uniformed

         7       police service to the city of New York.  If

         8       enacted, this bill would provide a firefighter

         9       who is a former police trainee with the same

        10       pension rights and service credit for such time.

        11                      The fiscal implications indicate

        12       that seven people would be affected at a cost of

        13       $5,000 per year and that this $5,000 per year

        14       amount, according to the fiscal note by Jonathan

        15       Schwartz, a consulting actuary, would remain

        16       constant, that $5,000.

        17                      So the bill has one of the

        18       requesters and the memorandum of support is by

        19       the Uniformed Firefighters Association.  It is

        20       supported in the Assembly by Assemblywoman

        21       Pheffer.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        23       if -

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Maltese, do you yield to a question?







                                                             
6767

         1                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, the

         5       police trainees who then enter the police

         6       department, do they get credit for the service

         7       or the time that they spent in the police

         8       academy?

         9                      SENATOR MALTESE:  You mean if

        10       they didn't transfer to the fire department?

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  My

        13       understanding is that they do.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, that's

        15       the real basis of your bill is that it would be

        16       inequitable to say, if you go to the police

        17       department, you get credit for the time you

        18       spent at the police academy but if you go to the

        19       fire department, you do not.

        20                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes, that's

        21       correct.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Now, when

        23       somebody, after having been a trainee in the

        24       police academy or even if he hasn't been in the

        25       police academy and he goes to the fire







                                                             
6768

         1       department, I assume that he has -- or receives

         2       some training, that there's something comparable

         3       in the fire department to the police academy.

         4       Is that so?

         5                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         6       that would be so.  Also to clarify my prior

         7       statement, although it's consistent with it,

         8       according to the memo of support by the

         9       Firefighters Association, they do indicate

        10       specifically that in all other instances,

        11       lateral transfers between the uniformed services

        12       count for service credit and that police

        13       trainees who subsequently become New York City

        14       Police officers are given pension credit for

        15       their trainee time with reference to your prior

        16       question, Senator -- Mr. President.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If I

        18       understand, Senator, if somebody who is in the

        19       fire academy and then goes to the police

        20       department, will that person get credit for the

        21       time that he spends in the fire academy?

        22                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        23       I don't know.  If that bill -- if that bill is

        24       not in, Senator, I would be glad to carry that

        25       bill.  It would seem also equitable that it be







                                                             
6769

         1       done.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, that

         3       -- you know, the only question I have about

         4       this and I think I'll support it, it sounds

         5       fair, but why don't we have one comprehensive

         6       bill that takes care of all these lateral

         7       transfers?

         8                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

         9       I guess politics and the legislation being an

        10       art, it's not always a 100 percent consistent or

        11       logical art and, in this case, the uniformed

        12       firefighters asked that the bill be put in and

        13       the Police Benevolent Association, if they don't

        14       have such a provision, have not requested the

        15       bill of me.

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        17       Maltese, if I could also ask you along the same

        18       line, if you'll continue to yield, isn't it

        19       true, Senator, that this bill covers just six

        20       particular individuals, that if right now

        21       somebody in the police academy who then

        22       transfers over to the fire department, next year

        23       you're going to have to put in a separate bill

        24       for that individual?

        25                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,







                                                             
6770

         1       yes, that is so because of the -- under the

         2       provisions of the bill, the application has to

         3       be made prior to a certain date.  So if that -

         4       and I could check the provisions of the bill

         5       but, therefore, that would exclude all future

         6       persons seeking to avail themselves of this

         7       opportunity.  I believe the purpose behind that

         8       was actuarial so that we could ascertain with

         9       exactitude the amount of persons and the cost.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Leichter.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        13       Maltese, if you'll continue to yield.  It would

        14       have been just as easy for you to put in a bill

        15       which would have said that anybody who, in the

        16       past or in the future, attends the police

        17       academy and then transfers to the fire

        18       department, will get pension credit for the time

        19       that he spent with the police academy.

        20                      I don't mean to be critical, but

        21       it just seems to me that we have this pension -

        22       particularly when it comes to a pension bill, we

        23       do thousands and thousands of these individual

        24       pension bills when, frankly, we could accomplish

        25       much more efficiently and much more fairly and







                                                             
6771

         1       much more understandably comprehensive

         2       legislation and that's my suggestion to you.

         3       Let's handle all of these lateral transfers.  I

         4       think it's fair that if we go from one

         5       department -- from one agency to another, they

         6       ought to get credit, but we ought to have one

         7       bill that says it and then we won't have to have

         8       all of these bills coming up every session that

         9       takes a lot of time, that's expensive and that

        10       really is unnecessary -- or would be

        11       unnecessary.

        12                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Yes.  Well, Mr.

        13       President and Senator Leichter, I think one of

        14       the reasons that it is done this way, as I said

        15       before, many of these bills are the result of

        16       compromise even where they are opposed by the

        17       City or other municipalities, whereas they are

        18       opposed perhaps with not the same ardor if they

        19       only affect six or seven people or $5,000 or

        20       they may affect in the future larger amounts of

        21       personnel to an increasingly greater cost.

        22                      So, Senator Leichter, you're

        23       absolutely correct.  I would have no problem

        24       putting in a bill that would apply it

        25       prospectively to all future trainees, and I







                                                             
6772

         1       don't believe it would involve a great deal of

         2       money, although more and more it seems that

         3       there are these transfers where somebody gets

         4       accepted on the list for the police or fire

         5       department and then subsequently gets accepted

         6       by the other service and decides to go into the

         7       other service.

         8                      So I guess it will happen,

         9       perhaps on the order of six or something like

        10       that number a year and we should provide for

        11       it.  I'll probably consult with the Uniformed

        12       Firefighters Association and indicate to them

        13       that I'd be glad to carry such a bill and we

        14       could debate that bill next year, Senator

        15       Leichter.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        19       Maltese, am I to suggest that there's maybe one

        20       other reason why we do these things piecemeal -

        21       and I don't mean to suggest that that's your

        22       motive, but it seems to me this way, you know,

        23       unions, individuals of particular interest

        24       groups have to keep on coming to the

        25       Legislature, come to legislators.  They've got







                                                             
6773

         1       to ask whatever comes with asking and trying to

         2       get something that flows from that, but I think

         3       we really would be better off if we did this in

         4       a comprehensive fashion and then I don't think

         5       we would be subject to what you yourself alluded

         6       to, the politics that gets involved.

         7                      We ought to treat public

         8       employees fairly.  I know you're committed to

         9       that.  I think everybody's committed to that.

        10       They ought to be well compensated.  They ought

        11       to have clear pension rights but they ought to

        12       be comprehensively done and then we wouldn't

        13       have all of these bills that I think just

        14       clutter up our calendar and raise questions

        15       about how we function.

        16                      Thank you, Senator.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
6774

         1       is passed.

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, Mr.

         4       President.  Can we do 1487, please.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1487 on the

         7       Supplemental B Calendar, by Senator Hannon.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1487, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4974, an

        10       act to enact the Health Care Embassy Match Act

        11       of 1997.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Hannon, an explanation has been requested.

        15                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.  This legislation authorizes the

        17       Department of Health to enter into the agreement

        18       with U.S. Embassies to prevent medical

        19       assistance fraud, waste and abuse by foreign

        20       nationals.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

        22       Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Hearing none -- Senator

        25       Dollinger.







                                                             
6775

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just so I

         2       understand it, Mr. President, will the sponsor

         3       yield to a couple of questions?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Hannon, do you yield to a couple of questions?

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senator yields.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  How many

        11       individuals do you think this will apply to each

        12       year?

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  I don't know.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        15       you, Mr. President, if the sponsor -

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  Because the

        17       nature of it is open ended, there are currently

        18       several agreements in existence at the moment.

        19       I would think it would tend to be a decreasing

        20       nature.  The very existence of this program will

        21       act as a deterrent as it becomes more

        22       widespread.  You can make any -- the question of

        23       deterrence leaves you just to make judgments as

        24       -- and so you don't have numbers at hand.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through







                                                             
6776

         1       you, Mr. President, just for the sake of

         2       clarification.  What will be the standards that

         3       an embassy would use to determine whether an

         4       individual can become a public charge of the

         5       United States -- of the -- if granted entry into

         6       the United States?

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  What standards

         8       would be used?  I -- somehow without any noise I

         9       couldn't hear you.  Did you say what standards

        10       would be used?  Federal law would be used.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Federal law

        12       will determine?

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Federal, yes,

        14       and, of course, federal implies here we also

        15       have a hand in implementing that because this is

        16       the Medicaid program which is a combination of

        17       federal and state statutes.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  Thank

        19       you, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section -- excuse

        22       me.  Senator Montgomery.

        23                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

        24       President.  Would Senator Hannon yield for a

        25       question?







                                                             
6777

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Hannon.

         3                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Senator,

         4       does the bill -- the embassy's bill establish a

         5       standard for determining who might likely be -

         6       become a burden to the state?

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  No.  All it does

         8       is establish the procedure of -- the standards

         9       are basically -- currently set forth in the law

        10       and this allows us to have a procedure that acts

        11       as a deterrent and to actually check whether

        12       people are eligible.  Without this, the people

        13       would come to this country, go through the

        14       application process and then be -- hopefully if

        15       everything will work right, be determined to be

        16       ineligible and not get Medicaid.  This way-

        17       which has already been implemented under the old

        18       Department of Social Service now transferred to

        19       the Department of Health, this way we're able to

        20       have a better system and it probably is a lot

        21       more fair because it doesn't require people to

        22       make round trips.

        23                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

        24       President, if Senator Hannon would continue to

        25       yield.  The -- many of the hospitals or at least







                                                             
6778

         1       some of the hospitals that I'm aware of are

         2       actively reaching out to invite people from

         3       different countries to come and receive medical

         4       care.  I'm just wondering, this means then that

         5       if someone has a particular medical need that

         6       might only be able to be responsive here -

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  This leaves

         8       eligibility alone.  If they are currently

         9       eligible, they would still remain eligible.  If

        10       they're not eligible, they cannot -- they're not

        11       denied anything, if they're eligible.  They're

        12       not -- in order to give them status and so it

        13       leaves eligibility alone.

        14                      What it provides is that for

        15       somebody applying for a visa, that that

        16       information is supplied through the Department

        17       of Health to check out if they've already been

        18       disqualified for Medicaid and if they are, that

        19       information will be supplied through the federal

        20       government.

        21                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  If they're

        22       not already eligible for Medicaid, then their

        23       visa could possibly be denied based on -

        24                      SENATOR HANNON:  No, no, no.  If

        25       they're not -- if they have been found to be -







                                                             
6779

         1       have a problem with Medicaid fraud, then that

         2       could be deterred but not -- there's no new

         3       standard enacted and these are all federal

         4       requirements that have been implemented so that

         5       they're denied the implementation.  They cannot

         6       get entry if they are going to come here for the

         7       purpose of Medicaid.

         8                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  All right.

         9       Thank you, Senator Hannon.

        10                      I -- just briefly on the bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Montgomery, on the bill.

        13                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

        14       President, I'm just wondering if this doesn't

        15       establish another barrier.  I know we're trying

        16       to get our state in line with the federal law,

        17       but I certainly sense New York State is the

        18       premier -- one of the premier states in the

        19       nation where -- as far as medical care is

        20       concerned, that a number of people may, in fact,

        21       be seeking to come here and I certainly would

        22       not want to establish barriers to them being

        23       able to get the high quality of health care here

        24       in our state because the embassy finds that they

        25       may become a burden based on what whatever







                                                             
6780

         1       the -

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  That's

         3       currently.  We're not establishing that,

         4       Senator.  That's currently law.  You cannot come

         5       here for that purpose.

         6                      Yesterday in the Post they were

         7       talking about still determining that there are

         8       dozens of cases -- and I'm quoting -- "Dozens of

         9       cases of foreigners flying to the City applying

        10       for Medicaid receiving organ transplants and

        11       other operations before heading home, transplant

        12       procedures which can cost hundreds of thousands

        13       of dollars", but we're not in the course of this

        14       bill setting up any new standards.  What we're

        15       doing is just ratifying procedures in place that

        16       apply those standards, ones that are in place by

        17       law now.

        18                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Okay.  Thank

        19       you, Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Hannon.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6781

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      Senator Holland.

         6                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         7       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  None at

         9       the desk, Senator Holland.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  May we stand at

        11       ease.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Senate will stand at ease.

        14                      (The Senate stood at ease.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senate will come to order.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        21       there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        22       Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

        24       meeting of the Rules Committee, immediate

        25       meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority







                                                             
6782

         1       Conference Room, Room 332, and the Senate will

         2       continue to stand at ease.

         3                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         4       ease.)

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Holland.

         7                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Can we take up

         8       bill number 1488, please.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the title to bill number 1488, Senate

        11       Print 5016-A, by Senator Volker.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1488, Senate Print 5016-A, an act to amend the

        14       Tax Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        16       will read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        20       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
6783

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

         2       we're going to have to stand at ease for a

         3       moment until we locate Senator Maltese and

         4       Senator Hannon so they can discuss their bills.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We do

         6       have a couple motions and resolutions if we

         7       could return to the order of motions and

         8       resolutions and do a little housekeeping.

         9                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Please.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair

        11       recognizes Senator Tully.

        12                      SENATOR TULLY: Yes, thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                      On behalf of Senator Saland, I

        15       wish to call up his bill, Print Number 2703-B,

        16       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the

        17       desk.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       982, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2703-B, an

        20       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Tully.

        23                      SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I

        24       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        25       bill was passed.







                                                             
6784

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       reconsideration.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

         7       Tully.

         8                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, I

         9       now offer the following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        11       Amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      Senator Tully.

        13                      SENATOR TULLY:  Mr. President, on

        14       behalf of Senator Levy, I wish to call up his

        15       bill, Print Number 4535-A, recalled from the

        16       Assembly which is now at the desk.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1001, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4535-A, an

        19       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law in

        20       relation to registration.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Tully.

        23                      SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I

        24       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        25       bill was passed.







                                                             
6785

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will call the roll on reconsideration.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       reconsideration.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57.

         6                      SENATOR TULLY: I now offer the

         7       following amendments.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      No, the amendments are received

        11       and adopted.

        12                      Senator Holland.

        13                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Stand at ease a

        14       moment.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        16       will stand at ease.

        17                      (The Senate stood at ease.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

        20       find their places, staff to find their places.

        21                      Senator Padavan.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  By unanimous

        23       consent, may I be recorded in the negative on

        24       Calendar Number 1511.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without







                                                             
6786

         1       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Padavan

         2       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         3       Number 1511.

         4                      Senator Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         6       on Calendar 60-A, would you call up Calendar

         7       Number 1498, Senate 5606.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Going to

         9       Calendar 60-A, Secretary will read the title to

        10       Calendar Number 1498.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1498, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        13       5606, an act to amend Chapter 483 of the Laws of

        14       1978.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  What is this bill?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Hannon.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  An

        20       explanation of Calendar Number 1498 has been

        21       requested.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  This would

        23       extend certain long-term demonstration programs

        24       in regard to managed care for the elderly, and

        25       it would continue to postpone the effective date







                                                             
6787

         1       in regard to certain taxation on HMOs which has

         2       been suspended as part of the Health Care Reform

         3       Act of 1996.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Dollinger, you have a question.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yeah, will

         7       the sponsor yield to a couple questions, please?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Hannon, do you yield to a couple questions from

        10       Senator Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       yields.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I understand

        15       that the Medicaid reimbursement of nursing home

        16       capital costs on the historic basis used in the

        17       theory has produced some significant savings, or

        18       it might produce some significant savings in the

        19       Medicaid budget.  Do you have any idea what the

        20       savings would be under this bill?

        21                      SENATOR HANNON:  It would

        22       continue the savings that we're now enjoying.

        23       No, I don't.  I can get it for you.  But it -

        24       this is not something innovative; this is

        25       something that's continuing the current savings.







                                                             
6788

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I apologize, but I had difficulty

         3       hearing Senator Hannon.  I apologize.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Hannon, would you repeat your answer.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  It would

         7       continue the current savings.  I don't have it

         8       readily available.  There's many lines; this is

         9       only part of the provisions.  This bill is

        10       temporary because we don't have a budget and

        11       we're trying to do as to the other portions of

        12       cost savings that are continued and the one-week

        13       extenders, we're just expanding -- expanding -

        14       continuing cost containment that we've had for

        15       Medicare.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        17       you, Mr. President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Hannon, you continue to yield?

        20                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       continues to yield.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So is it my

        24       understanding this is only an extension until

        25       such time as we enact the budget this year, or







                                                             
6789

         1       will this be taken care of in the budget? The

         2       reason why I ask that, Mr. Chairman, is that I

         3       notice that this bill actually reads as a

         4       one-year extender until 12-31-98, actually an

         5       18-month extender.

         6                      SENATOR HANNON:  I don't have the

         7       bill in front of me right now.  I -- I didn't

         8       know you were going to call it up.  Some of

         9       these things were going to be the extensions

        10       that would have been in the budget had we done

        11       it and, if that was the case, it would be to

        12       the end of the current fiscal year, which would

        13       not be 18 months; it would be about nine months

        14       now.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yeah, but as

        16       I understand the bill, again through you, Mr.

        17       President, if Senator Hannon will continue to

        18       yield, as I understand the bill, the bill

        19       actually contains language that would extend the

        20       provisions on reimbursement as to costs on a

        21       historic basis until 12-31-98, and I -- what I

        22       thought, just so I understand it, what I thought

        23       you had suggested to me was this was part of the

        24       budget extension.

        25                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, this is -







                                                             
6790

         1       this is what we've done the last two -- as far

         2       as I know, the last two years what we've done is

         3       extend it a year at a time, and this extends it

         4       from December 31st, '97 to December 31st, '98

         5       which is a 12-month extension, so -

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K.

         7                      SENATOR HANNON:  -- that's been

         8       there.  Why it's been December 31st has been

         9       more history than any fiscal fact.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        11       you, Mr. President, if Senator Hannon continues

        12       to yield.

        13                      SENATOR HANNON:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       continues to yield.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is it my

        17       understanding that this will be taken care of in

        18       the budget, that we will make these changes

        19       permanent.  I can understand -

        20                      SENATOR HANNON:  No, no, no, no,

        21       I didn't say they would make them permanent;

        22       they would be addressed in a more comprehensive

        23       manner, but there are many, many items that

        24       ought not to ever really be made permanent given

        25       the frequency that Congress makes changes in







                                                             
6791

         1       their appropriation, authority rules and

         2       regulations, so what we intend to do is extend

         3       them for certain periods of time, and these

         4       items have been extended.  The only thing we

         5       would do is make sure we have a comprehensive

         6       list, but this -- the items in this list are

         7       extended because we don't have a budget now, not

         8       that they will also be taken care of in the

         9       budget.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  O.K. Again

        11       through you, Mr. President.  There's one other

        12       portion of the bill that I'm concerned about,

        13       and that is the one-year delay to -- to July

        14       1st, 1998 of the nine percent assessment that

        15       HMOs would pay to hospitals for lack of good

        16       faith in enrolling in Medicaid -- Medicaid

        17       patients in to care.

        18                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, hold on.

        19       That -- that was done as an original suspension

        20       in July of last year.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.

        22                      SENATOR HANNON:  On the thought

        23       that we were going to have universal or as most

        24        -- as universal as you could have it, Medicaid

        25       managed care program.







                                                             
6792

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Correct.

         2                      SENATOR HANNON:  And we had

         3       already gone through the request for proposals

         4       process.  People have responded to those

         5       requests for proposals, and we're under way.

         6       Because of that, and the thought that it was

         7       going to be successful, the soon awaited waiver

         8       last July, we then suspended the nine percent

         9       which, when it was originally imposed in 1991,

        10       was not imposed as a carrot, but as simply a

        11       revenue raising measure in those -- those one of

        12       the two or three years when we were having such

        13       shortfall, so, and yet there were some who

        14       thought, well, even the possibility of this

        15       springing up ought to be left in place as a

        16       mechanism in case we never get the waiver, so I

        17       thought that was such a remote possibility last

        18       year that we'd be simply repealing it.

        19                      Well, we don't have the waiver

        20       from the federal government again and so the

        21       argument is pretty logical, extends it another

        22       year, let's see if we get the waiver or not.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again through

        24       you, Mr. President, Mr. Chairman, if Senator

        25       Hannon will continue to yield.  I should preface







                                                             
6793

         1       my comment by saying this is just the kind of

         2       thing if this had come out of the Health

         3       Committee at some point, we might have had this

         4       discussion in the context of the Health

         5       Committee and perhaps avoided this discussion on

         6       the floor.

         7                      My question again through you,

         8       Mr. President, if Senator Hannon will continue

         9       to yield, is the nine percent assessment was, as

        10       I think you're correct, and this predates my

        11       being here was a revenue generating measure but

        12       now it's really a carrot and stick to get

        13       Medicaid patients enrolled in HMOs so that the

        14       cost savings which are right at the crux of what

        15       this bill was designed to do, the major thrust

        16       of this bill so that we can start to pay out

        17       less in our Medicaid costs by using the concept

        18       of managed care.

        19                      My question is, do you see a time

        20       that that incentive will achieve the goal?  And

        21       I understand that we've had some problems with

        22       the federal waiver, but is it -- do you foresee

        23       a time when that nine percent is actually going

        24       to push -- achieve the goal that we share which

        25       is to push the HMOs to make sure that Medicaid







                                                             
6794

         1       is a significant enough portion so that we

         2       realize savings?

         3                      SENATOR HANNON:  I would

         4       anticipate so.  I would anticipate that we -

         5       there are a whole other range of -- of comments

         6       and critiques over the current system mainly

         7       centered around the rates that are available and

         8       whether or not we get a chance to address that

         9       for the short term, we certainly have to address

        10       the participation process, HMO participation

        11       process, in Medicaid managed care when the

        12       current RFP is up which I believe is December

        13       31st, 1998 and that, therefore, the new

        14       procurement has to take effect some place in the

        15       next 18 months, so I would anticipate that we

        16       could get to a state of affairs where we

        17       wouldn't have the nine percent at all, and we

        18       would simply repeal it.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And again

        20       through you, Mr. President, just one final

        21       question.  I know, Senator, you and I have had

        22       an chance in the Health Committee to talk about

        23       some of the problems that the Medicaid managed

        24       care operation has faced, many of them focused

        25       on the issue of the appropriate level of







                                                             
6795

         1       reimbursement; that is to try to get the

         2       Medicaid managed care rate up to such a level

         3       that physicians will participate and enough of

         4       the organizations will participate so that there

         5       is an access, so that the Medicaid enrollee has

         6       a sense that there are enough physicians out

         7       there to prevent them from going to emergency

         8       rooms and instead they'll go to see their local

         9       physician.

        10                      My question is, do you see that

        11       the solution to this lies in an increase in the

        12       Medicaid managed care rate for the HMOs

        13       generally?  I mean we're going to have to put a

        14       little more carrot in so that we avoid having to

        15       swing this big stick?

        16                      SENATOR HANNON:  Well, yes and

        17       no.  There are many people who will say that

        18       while there's been a lot of dropout by plans in

        19       regard to participation.  I would also point out

        20       that it's been pointed -- that there are plans

        21       that are signing up that are asking to get

        22       involved, and so there doesn't seem to be any

        23       type of crisis yet.

        24                      I have also pointed out that each

        25       of these plans accepted bids from the department







                                                             
6796

         1       as to what they would -- would do, so if you're

         2       ever going to increase exactly what are the

         3       numbers you would increase the rates by and how

         4       would you justify those numbers being that they

         5       would be over and above the very rates that the

         6       plans accepted.

         7                      They have said, yeah, that's all

         8       well and good, but we're still losing money so

         9       it's a question here of how do you have a

        10       certain set of facts that is -- would form a

        11       reasonable basis, so each Senator in this room

        12       would be able to vote on that and have a certain

        13       assurance that it's not a windfall for somebody

        14       and that it would be logically related to the

        15       cost of providing health care.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.  I thank the chairman of the

        18       Health Committee.

        19                      I know that this isn't his fault

        20       and I don't mean to ascribe any blame, but this

        21       is, frankly, I think a very beneficial

        22       discussion at least to me based on my interest,

        23       both in health care generally and in the

        24       specific problems faced with Medicaid managed

        25       care.







                                                             
6797

         1                      As I know, the chairman and I, I

         2       think have spoken in the context of the Health

         3       Committee about some of the problems faced in

         4       Rochester, New York, one of the homes of managed

         5       care, one of the often quoted models of managed

         6       care, the great difficulty with the Monroe Plan,

         7       which is our Medicaid managed care plan and the

         8       difficulty that it's had in the last three or

         9       four years as it has seen either a freezing of

        10       its rate or an actual lowering of the rate and

        11       the impact of that on the ability of the plan to

        12       enroll sufficient physicians so that the

        13       Medicaid enrollee goes to the private physician

        14       consistent with the HMO objective rather than

        15       doing the one thing which Medicaid managed care

        16       is designed to do which is to discourage them

        17       from showing up at emergency rooms and incurring

        18       much higher cost of care, and I understand that

        19       as we go through this evolution from one health

        20       care system to another and the difficulty of

        21       that evolution, that we need to have extenders,

        22       we need to make sure that we're not either ahead

        23       of the system or behind it, that the Legislature

        24       is on -- riding that wave on the crest so we're

        25       right there as those changes occur.







                                                             
6798

         1                      That's why I -- I'm going to vote

         2       for this bill, Senator, and I appreciate the

         3       description of it because it's too bad this

         4       didn't go through the Health Committee because I

         5       think that getting the kind of input, bringing

         6       all of our members of the Health Committee up to

         7       date on this issue and the importance of this

         8       issue to achieve both quality health care for

         9       those in the Medicaid system and to reduce our

        10       costs.  That's a critical part of the

        11       discussions that we've incurred since you've

        12       been the chairman of the Committee and I think

        13       many of our other members of the Health

        14       Committee could have benefited by this

        15       discussion being had in the informal give and

        16       take of committee rather than having the bill

        17       come out.  I know that the exigency of dates and

        18       calendar drives this to be done today, but it

        19       just seems to me that this is the kind of thing

        20       that, because of the importance of the

        21       underlying issue, this is just a sort of a tip

        22       of the iceberg of a huge, very difficult issue,

        23       that it would have been very beneficial to have

        24       this done in the Health Committee.

        25                      I'll vote in favor of the bill,







                                                             
6799

         1       and I think it's the right thing to do under the

         2       circumstances, but we need to have these

         3       discussions perhaps maybe some time other than

         4       the first of July.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         6       will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        10       roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Senator Skelos.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        17       would you call up Calendar Number 1499 on

        18       Calendar 60-A.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  On the

        20       same calendar, 60-A, Secretary will read the

        21       title of Calendar Number 1499.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1499, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        24       Assembly Print 8456, an act establishing the

        25       Chronic Care Management Demonstration Program.







                                                             
6800

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay aside for

         2       the day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         4       bill aside for the day.

         5                      Senator Skelos.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  On the same

         7       calendar, would you call up Calendar Number

         8       1512.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the title.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1512, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        13       Assembly Print 8467, an act to amend the

        14       Insurance Law.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Lay that bill

        16       aside for the day.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside for the day.

        19                      Senator Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        21       return to the order of reports of standing

        22       committees.  I believe there is a report of the

        23       Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be

        24       read.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll







                                                             
6801

         1       return to reports of standing committees.  There

         2       is a report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

         3       I'll ask the Secretary to read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

         5       from the Committee on Rules, offers up the

         6       following bills:

         7                      Senate Print 5202, by Senator

         8       Nozzolio, an act to amend the Correction Law;

         9                      5264-A, by Senator Marchi, an act

        10       authorizing the city of New York to reconvey;

        11                      5470, by Senator Rath, an act

        12       authorizing the SUNY College of Environmental

        13       Science and Forestry;

        14                      3387, by Senator Saland, an act

        15       to restore service credit to Suzanne Cunningham;

        16                      5635, by Senator Trunzo, an act

        17       to amend the Executive Law;

        18                      5652, by the Committee on Rules,

        19       an act to amend chapter of the laws of 1997;

        20                      3962, by Senator Trunzo, an act

        21       to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

        22                      5152-A, by Senator Spano, an act

        23       to amend the Transportation Law;

        24                      5634-A, by the Committee on

        25       Rules, an act to amend the Public Authorities







                                                             
6802

         1       Law;

         2                      2456, by Senator Trunzo, an act

         3       to amend Chapter 422 of the Laws of 1991;

         4                      5006, by Senator Tully, an act to

         5       authorizing the assessor of the county of

         6       Nassau;

         7                      5670, by Senator Skelos, an act

         8       authorizing the assessor of the county of

         9       Nassau;

        10                      4244-B, by Senator Farley, an act

        11       to amend the Banking Law;

        12                      5452, by Senator Velella, an act

        13       to amend the Insurance Law;

        14                      5638, by the Committee on Rules,

        15       an act to amend the Local Finance Law;

        16                      5641, by Senator Seward, an act

        17       to amend the Rural Electric Cooperative law;

        18                      5620, by Senator Marcellino, an

        19       act authorizing the county of Suffolk;

        20                      5655, by Senator Markowitz, an

        21       act authorizing the city of New York; and

        22                      5446, by Senator Montgomery, an

        23       act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection

        24       Act;

        25                      5498-A, by Senator Spano, an act







                                                             
6803

         1       to amend the Penal Law;

         2                      5633, Senator Spano, an act to

         3       amend a chapter of the laws of 1997.

         4                      All bills directly to third

         5       reading.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

         7       to accept the report of the Rules Committee.

         8       All those in favor say aye.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        10       President, before we accept that, could I object

        11       to the Rules Committee report and ask to be

        12       heard on the issue.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        14       before the house.  Debatable motion.  Senator

        15       Dollinger, on the motion.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        17       President, is there someone from the Rules

        18       Committee who would just explain the reason for

        19       this Rules Committee report, the rationale for

        20       this Rules Committee report?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would you

        22       like Senator Skelos to ask?

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Well, Mr.

        24       President, I believe the Rules Committee has the

        25       right, under our rules, to report to third







                                                             
6804

         1       reading at any time.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         3       President, if Senator Skelos will take the lead

         4       on this, is there any particular reason why

         5       these bills have to be reported today?

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         7       the Rules Committee met.  Majority, Minority

         8       members were there.  Legislation was discussed

         9       and the Rules Committee determined that these

        10       bills should be reported to the full Senate to

        11       be debated at this time.

        12                      I move to accept the report of

        13       the Rules Committee.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again, Mr.

        15       President, if I could be heard on that, I

        16       appreciate Senator Skelos' comments.  If I could

        17       be just heard on this motion.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Excuse

        19       me, Senator Dollinger.  Would you say that

        20       again, please.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Could I be

        22       heard on this motion? I object to the Rules

        23       Committee report, and I believe it is a

        24       debatable issue, and I believe we have a half

        25       hour.







                                                             
6805

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes.

         2       There's 27 minutes left.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  27.  Thank

         4       you, Mr. President.

         5                      The Rules Committee in this house

         6       is oftentimes used, especially around this time

         7       of year.  It really ought to be called the "June

         8       and July Committee" because it comes to life, as

         9       we know, some time in the middle of March or

        10       excuse me, the middle of May, in which all the

        11       committees dump their bills or the bills end up

        12       in front of the Rules Committee and as a

        13       consequence, the Rules Committee then begins to

        14       meet frequently and begins to analyze the bills

        15       that ought to come before this house.

        16                      I'd point out a couple things to

        17       those members who are interested in how the

        18       bills flow.  First of all, we have a lot of

        19       bills on our calendar that are ready to go,

        20       already been done, already come to the floor,

        21       they're live on the active list.  I look around

        22       this side of the aisle.  There's some members

        23       over here who have bills on the Rules Committee

        24       list that need activity, that need a vote of

        25       this house in order to raise the possibility







                                                             
6806

         1       that they'll become law; so we've got a lot of

         2       work already on our platter, and yet today we

         3       come forward with the third Rules Committee.

         4       We've got "A", we've got "B", we've got "C", I

         5       mean we may end up with "Z" at some point but

         6       there are bills that have already been put on

         7       the active list that are ready and rarin' to go

         8       that haven't been done yet.  It seems to me

         9       that, in the orderly management of this house -

        10       and no one has been better at the order and

        11       management of this house than Senator Bruno.

        12       He's taught us the importance of starting on

        13       time.  He's taught us the importance of

        14       finishing on time.  It seems to me that it can

        15       be consistent with Senator Bruno's credo we

        16       ought to do the bills that are already here.  We

        17       don't need to go to another Rules Committee

        18       report when we've got bills that are already

        19       live, ready to go before the house.

        20                      But the other issue, it seems to

        21       me, that we ought to do is take a look at the

        22       bills that are actually being produced from the

        23       Rules Committee and get a sense of whether we

        24       need to do these in particular today.

        25                      Senator Nozzolio's is the first







                                                             
6807

         1       bill.  This is a bill that would eliminate a

         2       compensation cap for psychiatrists in the prison

         3       system.  I wasn't at the Rules Committee report,

         4       I don't know what was said, but it seems to me

         5       that that's a bill we could have done, gee,

         6       almost any time in the last six months.

         7                      The same is probably true with

         8       Senator Marchi's bill, a bill to reconvey

         9       property.  Why, I understand that there maybe be

        10       members on this side of the aisle who have

        11       re-conveyance bills that are already ready and

        12       rarin' to go in the house, but instead we're

        13       going to accept a Rules Committee report that

        14       creates a specific bill from Senator Marchi to

        15       jump on the calendar perhaps even ahead of those

        16       bills.  I'm not so sure I understand why that

        17       would occur.

        18                      Senator Rath's bill which is

        19       authorizing SUNY to create a -- to conduct a

        20       research and restoration program on the American

        21       chestnut tree, again, Senator Rath, that seems

        22       like a good bill to me, but why it has to be

        23       done in the context of the Rules Committee,

        24       couldn't be done by the Environmental

        25       Conservation Committee, why it couldn't have had







                                                             
6808

         1       a discussion about the importance of that

         2       versus, I don't know, promoting the American elm

         3       tree.  That's the kind of discussion that should

         4       go on in our substantive committees and not all

         5       of a sudden come to the floor through the Rules

         6       Committee.

         7                      Senator Saland has a bill which

         8       is another bill in the Rules Committee report

         9       that talks about giving special pension benefits

        10       to a Suzanne Cunningham.  Maybe very deserving.

        11       I did catch part of the Rules Committee debate

        12       on this issue and whether we should again single

        13       out one individual for special treatment under

        14       the retirement program.

        15                      I know we've passed a bill

        16       several years ago that was designed to create a

        17       system for dealing with pension benefits and

        18       late filings and misfilings and this kind of

        19       bill, frankly, we were doing these back in

        20       March, I don't know why it couldn't have been

        21       done in March, probably should have been done in

        22       March.  Probably deserved the special attention

        23       that Senator Trunzo's Civil Service Committee,

        24       retirement committee, could give to it.  I would

        25       suggest that it might be good to send it back to







                                                             
6809

         1       that committee and give everybody a chance to be

         2       heard on it.

         3                      The interest arbitration, another

         4       big and important bill, I have no doubt that it

         5       deserves an airing in this house and maybe

         6       deserve passage.  I'll wait for the debate

         7       before I make my decision, but that too seems to

         8       be coming to us through an unusual path through

         9       the Rules Committee and should be sent back to

        10       the appropriate Civil Service or other

        11       committees for discussion.

        12                      Then there are bills, I know

        13       that, I was in the Rules Committee for a

        14       discussion of Senator Trunzo's bill on the

        15       pension benefits for firefighters that would

        16       enable them to obtain accidental disability

        17       benefits for those who contracted HIV during the

        18       performance of their duties.

        19                      Again, this bill seems to me to

        20       be just the kind of bill that maybe ought to go

        21       to the Health Committee, maybe ought to be

        22       discussed by the substantive committees before

        23       it's reported directly to Rules.  I don't know

        24       why this bill couldn't have been done at an

        25       earlier time, why the Rules Committee has to







                                                             
6810

         1       make a report on this bill at this particular

         2       time, other than, of course, we're down to July,

         3       it's now time to get all our work done and we're

         4       going to hurry up and do it because through most

         5       of February, March, April, May we didn't see a

         6       bill that was anywheres near as substantive as

         7       that one.  We really didn't do anything.  We did

         8       license plate bills and all those other bills

         9       which the Majority offered up for our appetite

        10       on those days that we were practically starving

        11       in the lack of intellectual stimulation on the

        12       calendar.  Now, all of a sudden we're to be

        13       force fed these very significant bills that I

        14       think deserve a little bit of time to sit on the

        15       calendar, perhaps mature on the calendar, get

        16       the opinions of a broader group of interests,

        17       those interested in the legislation, and perhaps

        18       get some suggestions that could even improve the

        19       content of the bill, might even produce

        20       amendments from this side of the aisle that we

        21       could insert in these bills to improve their

        22       quality.

        23                      Senator Spano's bill on the

        24       Westchester Parkway Commission, this is going to

        25       re-establish the parkway commission.  I assume







                                                             
6811

         1       again that that's one that's about to run out of

         2       gas unless we fill the tank up before the end of

         3       the first of July.

         4                      There are also bills about the

         5       creation of the police department in the

         6       Metropolitan Transit Authority.  Again, I'm not

         7       familiar with that issue.  I'm not from the city

         8       of New York, but I question why that has to be

         9       included in a Rules Committee report on the

        10       first of July.

        11                      Then there are other bills that

        12       create teachers' retirement systems, Senator

        13       Trunzo again carrying a bill, I think, my guess

        14       is this bill may have sat in Senator Trunzo's

        15       committee for some time.  It's got number 2459

        16       on it.  My guess is that bill was printed some

        17       time in early March, sat in Senator Trunzo's

        18       Committee for the better part of three full

        19       months, maybe even four full months, maybe even

        20       five full months.  Didn't go anywhere.

        21                      I'd be interested perhaps even if

        22       Senator Trunzo would yield to a question to ask

        23       him why the bill suddenly comes to the floor

        24       today, why on the Rules Committee on the first

        25       of July.  I can't understand it.  Perhaps







                                                             
6812

         1       someone could offer me an explanation.

         2                      Senator Tully carries a bill, a

         3       bill that -- and I believe it's mirrored by

         4       another bill that -- there are two bills here

         5       that create -- that's right, Senator Tully and

         6       Senator Skelos both carry bills that would

         7       permit organizations to obtain real property tax

         8       exemptions.  Senator Cook and I have made our

         9       views known on those bills.  We've consistently

        10       voted against them.  They should have come

        11       through the Local Government Committee.  I

        12       regret that Senator Rath isn't here because

        13       Senator Rath got the benefit of the discussion

        14       that Senator Cook and I have had about the

        15       importance of the integrity of real property tax

        16       rolls and how these bills deviate from it.

        17       Perhaps there's some very valid explanation as

        18       to why these specific religious organizations

        19       should be singled out by this Legislature on the

        20       first of July as part of a Rules Committee. I,

        21       frankly, don't understand it and, frankly, don't

        22       understand why it's being done at this last time

        23       and why the committee process was avoided for

        24       the kind of bills, frankly, that we've done in

        25       the Local Government Committee all year even







                                                             
6813

         1       though I've been in the negative on voting on

         2       them.

         3                      But there are other bills on the

         4       third page of the calendar that deal with port

         5       ability of insurance, Senator Velella, very

         6       important bill as New York complies with the

         7       federal requirements for portability of

         8       insurance benefits.  Frankly, I think that's

         9       just the kind of issue that ought to be or

        10       should have been considered at great length by

        11       the Insurance Committee or by the Health

        12       Committee to determine the importance of the

        13       transferability of health benefits for those

        14       people that live in the state of New York.  Just

        15       the kind of issue that we should have had an

        16       extensive discussion in the Insurance Committee

        17       because that would give the members of the

        18       Insurance Committee a better idea of exactly

        19       what this bill accomplishes, how do we implement

        20       federal changes.  The same kind of discussion I

        21       think could have been very valuable in the

        22       Health Committee.  We've lost the benefit of

        23       that because instead we stuff it through the

        24       Rules Committee.

        25                      There are other bills, I know







                                                             
6814

         1       that Senator Marcellino, the chairman of the

         2       Environmental Conservation Committee, does have

         3       a bill authorizing Suffolk County to discontinue

         4       the use of certain lands.  I can only assume

         5       that this bill, number 5620, was probably

         6       printed some time around the end of March, for

         7       some reason sat in Senator Marcellino's

         8       committee for three months, and now today all of

         9       a sudden having done nothing with it for three

        10       months, it's suddenly very, very important that

        11       we get this bill done.  I'd like an explanation

        12       from someone why the Rules Committee has to put

        13       a bill like this on the agenda, has to bring it

        14       in now and has to have it leapfrog over all the

        15       other active bills that are sitting on our

        16       calendar.  Frankly, I don't understand it.

        17                      Senator Montgomery does have a

        18       bill, another interesting bill.  Unless I'm

        19       mistaken, I think that's the only bill that

        20       doesn't have a Republican sponsor as its chief

        21       sponsor.  I'd be interested to hear what Senator

        22       Montgomery has to say about that bill as well.

        23                      Senator Markowitz also has a

        24       bill, my colleague next door here.  I'd be

        25       interested to hear what he has to say, but again







                                                             
6815

         1       either one of those bills could clearly have

         2       been done outside of the context of the Rules

         3       Committee, could have been put on the floor of

         4       this chamber some time in the last six months,

         5       last three months, and we could have done those

         6       bills.  We started doing them several weeks

         7       ago.  It isn't until now that they hit the

         8       table.

         9                      And then Senator Spano has two

        10       very important bills, two bills that I'm looking

        11       forward to an explanation on; hopefully we'll

        12       get a sufficient explanation, important bills

        13       that deal with the hand gun issue in Westchester

        14       County.  I think that's a very significant

        15       issue.  As members know I've stood here before

        16       and asked for the restriction on the use of

        17       assault weapons.  I believe we do have too many

        18       dangerous weapons in our streets, too many

        19       dangerous weapons in Westchester County, and

        20       I'll be interested to hear his explanation, but,

        21       quite frankly, that bill, both of those bills

        22       sponsored by Senator Spano, could have easily

        23       been done outside of the context of the Rules

        24       Committee, could have easily been done by a

        25       substantive committee, could have easily been







                                                             
6816

         1       printed, these bills, my my guess is were

         2       printed some time in late March or early April,

         3       could have been done in March or early April or

         4       May, we sat here for days on end, doing four or

         5       five or six bills, with nothing better to do.

         6                      Frankly, Mr. President, the issue

         7       of whether we should accept the report of the

         8       Rules Committee is a reflection of what this

         9       institution does and how it does it.  What does

        10       it do?  Absolutely nothing until it absolutely

        11       has to.  And how does it do it?  It does it all

        12       at the end with minimal explanation, without the

        13       input of the substantive committees, without the

        14       opportunity for members who are familiar with

        15       particular issues because of their committee

        16       involvement, to get actively involved in the

        17       bill, to propose amendments to the bill, to

        18       suggest alternatives, to come up with different

        19       ideas.

        20                      As the ranking Democrat in the

        21       Health Committee, I would suggest and I regret

        22       that Senator Hannon isn't here, I think you saw

        23       in the Health Committee in the last few years an

        24       active involvement of all of its members in the

        25       involvement in the structures of bills with







                                                             
6817

         1       proposals for changes, with suggestions for

         2       amendment, with suggestions for discussions,

         3       additional discussions with our counterparts in

         4       the Assembly.

         5                      All of that is a product of our

         6       committee system.  That has all been bypassed in

         7       this case.  All of it has been ignored.  The

         8       process of the Senate has been ignored and,

         9       quite frankly, it seems to me that the Rules

        10       Committee report that's before us today is a

        11       dramatic reflection of everything that's wrong

        12       with this body as a deliberative body.

        13                      This is not about deliberation;

        14       this is about expediency.  This is about doing

        15       something at the last second instead of doing it

        16       right.

        17                      Mr. President -- with that -

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President -

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Gold, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Would Senator

        23       Dollinger yield to a question?

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I will, Mr.

        25       President.







                                                             
6818

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       yields.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator Dollinger,

         4       I hear you asking all of these questions, but

         5       I'm wondering whether you realize something and

         6       I'm very shocked, Senator, at the thought that

         7       you might not understand this.

         8                      Part of this Rules report is a

         9       bill, a Print Number 3387, which would restore

        10       certain pension rights.  Now, it's my

        11       understanding from the debate in the Rules

        12       Committee when I raised the issue with Senator

        13       Trunzo, who was at the meeting, as to why the

        14       person was not covered by the Trunzo Law which

        15       we all passed -- first of all I didn't realize,

        16       Senator Dollinger, that the law expired in 1996,

        17       big mistake on our part.  I'm told that it has

        18       not been restored because there are 4,000 of

        19       these pension claims that haven't even been

        20       handled yet, and they're afraid of more, and

        21       that to me is silly because obviously at some

        22       point in time we're going to have to pass them

        23       again, and we're just going to create another

        24       backlog.

        25                      But I was told by Senator Trunzo







                                                             
6819

         1       in a rather defensive way, and he should never

         2       be defensive, but he said, Wait a minute, that

         3       bill didn't come out of my committee.  Now,

         4       Senator Dollinger, don't you understand, don't

         5       you realize as someone who's been around here

         6       for more than an hour that the purpose of the

         7       Rules Committee at the end is to report bills

         8       that the committee chairmen would never let out

         9       of their committee and that this is a way to go

        10       around the committee chairman?

        11                      I mean don't you realize, Senator

        12       Dollinger, as an intelligent, bright young man

        13       who's been around here for more than an hour

        14       that we have conference committees in the

        15       Legislature.  It's composed of Senator Bruno,

        16       Assemblyman Silver and George Pataki.  That's

        17       the conference committee.  Once you read, I

        18       think it's today's Daily News, some of these

        19       stories wondering what we're all doing and the

        20       Rules Committee, Senator Dollinger, activates

        21       that conference committee.

        22                      I remember, Senator Dollinger,

        23       when we used to have the chairman of the Codes

        24       Committee in one house and the chairman of the

        25       Codes Committee in another house and they would







                                                             
6820

         1       meet and all of a sudden you would have the "X"

         2       and the "Y" criminal justice package.

         3                      Now it's either got to be a Bruno

         4       criminal justice package or a Silver criminal

         5       justice package.  You got to scratch your head,

         6       well, I happen to know the chairman of Codes,

         7       he's a fine gentleman, but you've got to wonder

         8       who the chairman is.  They're not the ones doing

         9       it any more and, Senator, this I think gives you

        10       some reason why some of these bills are on

        11       Rules, don't you think, question mark?

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        13       President, I -- again I have to bow to the

        14       sagacity of my colleague from Queens who again

        15       is giving me the benefit of 25 years, 30 years

        16       of experience in this Legislature that really

        17       dwarfs my own minimal exposure to this body and

        18       that I'm actually astounded, Senator Gold.

        19                      I think what you're suggesting to

        20       me is that all those extra -- those extra cash,

        21       the chairmen of committees get who get more

        22       money than ranking members because they have

        23       greater responsibilities, they've got -- what I

        24       think you might be suggesting to me, Senator, is

        25       that the agendas that they put out from the







                                                             
6821

         1       first of January to the 15th of May, which is

         2       the committee cycle in this chamber, that those

         3       agendas are filled with the bills that they

         4       think might be important and that the bills that

         5       come out of Rules are the bills that Senator

         6       Bruno thinks are important.  So it seems to me

         7       that maybe what we ought to do is go back and

         8       maybe look at our legislative structure and try

         9       to re-evaluate whether we ought to be paying

        10       chairs of committees additional stipends for the

        11       benefit of reporting out bills that they think

        12       are important when the real bills are the only

        13       ones that Senator Bruno thinks are important.

        14                      Frankly, Senator Gold, this might

        15       be the time to maybe ask for an inquiry by this

        16       house as to maybe we should do away with the

        17       committee chairs.  They can report out the bills

        18       that don't matter and just make Senator Bruno,

        19       he's an ex officio member of every committee.

        20       Why don't we just make him the ex officio chair

        21       of every committee so that he can produce the

        22       entire agenda for the Legislature so that at the

        23       end of the session like it is today, whoever

        24       structures the agenda of the Rules Committee is

        25       really setting all the rules.







                                                             
6822

         1                      I am -- I guess, Senator, you

         2       force me to rethink my whole sense of what this

         3       Legislature does and those in its leadership

         4       positions and whether we ought to be paying them

         5       anything for just producing the bills that

         6       nobody thinks are important from the first of

         7       January until the 15th of May and then pay

         8       Senator Bruno some more because he's obviously

         9       doing all the work of all the chairs.

        10                      I think Senator Gold is correct.

        11       What this -- what today demonstrates, what this

        12       Rules Committee demonstrates is that the

        13       committees in this house are in danger of

        14       becoming extinct and my suggestion to all of

        15       those who have chaired a committee, it's now

        16       your time to stand up, take back the powers that

        17       the rules of this Senate give you, take back the

        18       power to control the agenda.  Take back the

        19       power to put important issues on the agenda when

        20       the committee meets.  Don't let Senator Bruno

        21       usurp the rules of this house and become the

        22       super chairman who takes over the debate of this

        23       house and dictates all of it.

        24                      This is a demonstration of what

        25       the powerful leadership is all about in this







                                                             
6823

         1       house.  It's dwarfing the minuscule power of

         2       party -- of the chairs of committees, and I

         3       would suggest to everyone that's a chairman of a

         4       committee, everyone in this house is a chairman

         5       of a committee.  Anyone who is a chairman of a

         6       committee who is in the sound of my voice, stand

         7       up today and say this will never happen again.

         8       We're going to stand up for the committees

         9       today.

        10                      I'm standing up here to tell all

        11       of those people who are chairs and I don't -- I

        12       think they all sit on the other side, and I'm

        13       telling you, I'm going to support you when you

        14       want to bring a committee bill out.  I'm going

        15       to support you today by voting against the Rules

        16       Committee to try to re-empower the substantive

        17       committees that have to deal with the

        18       substantive issues.

        19                      I'm going to vote today against

        20       this Rules Committee report to give the chairman

        21       of the Health Committee, Senator Hannon -- he

        22       does sit on that side, give Senator Hannon more

        23       power.  I'm going to vote in favor of the Rules

        24       Committee -- or excuse me, the Banking Committee

        25       so that I can give Senator Farley more power so







                                                             
6824

         1       that he can decide what the important bills are

         2       so that he'll bring the bills out of the

         3       committee.  Senator Leichter won't oppose that.

         4       Senator Leichter wants a little bit more of that

         5       power.

         6                      I'm going to vote against this

         7       Rules Committee report because it is the symptom

         8       of everything that's wrong with this

         9       Legislature.  We are now going to be force fed

        10       every substantive bill in this legislative

        11       session by having the Senate Rules Committee

        12       debate it without input from the substantive

        13       committees, without input from the members

        14       who've worked in those committees for the last

        15       five months.

        16                      Instead it's going to be run from

        17       some office on the third floor, not sure which

        18       one, I could get an idea, but some office on the

        19       third floor is going to set that agenda and it's

        20       unfortunate.  Frankly, to all of you who are

        21       committee chairs, if you had gumption, if you

        22       really believed in what you were doing and if

        23       you could justify taking an extra stipend from

        24       the people of the state of New York, vote

        25       against this Rules Committee report.







                                                             
6825

         1                      Let's do it right for a change.

         2       Let's say to this cockamamie system we have that

         3       produces excess at the last second and dalliance

         4       through most of the session let's throw the

         5       system out.  Vote against this silly Rules

         6       Committee report.  It's got important stuff on

         7       it, but this is the wrong process.  You know

         8       it's wrong; I know it's wrong.  Vote against

         9       this report, send these bills back to the

        10       substantive committees.  They can meet now.

        11       They can meet now.  You can get all the

        12       expertise from 61 members -

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Dollinger.

        15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- on

        16       substantive issues.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Paterson, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        20       I was wondering if Senator Dollinger would yield

        21       to a question.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Dollinger, would you yield to a question from

        24       Senator Paterson?

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Yes, Mr.







                                                             
6826

         1       President, I will.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       yields.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

         5       Dollinger, I feel like I'm in a remake of the

         6       movie NETWORK, but I'd like to ask you if you're

         7       aware that in 1992 both this Legislature, both

         8       the Senate and the Assembly passed bills that

         9       severely restricted the powers of the Senate

        10       Finance Committee chair and the Assembly Ways

        11       and Means Committee chair on our budget, that

        12       restricted much of what went through those

        13       committees by law and then came to the floor of

        14       the Senate and was then voted upon to such an

        15       extent that it certainly minimized the authority

        16       of one leader around here because those

        17       significant committees that handled a lot of the

        18       commerce and economic development legislation

        19       were in the hands of other than the Majority

        20       Leader and the Speaker of the Assembly, and my

        21       question to you is, would you recommend that we

        22       rethink that action that we took five years ago

        23       because it seems to coincide with what you're

        24       raising as an objection to this Rules report,

        25       that we have in the Legislature 61 seats, we







                                                             
6827

         1       have over 18 million residents that live in the

         2       61 Senate Districts, and we don't have an

         3       opportunity for needed legislation to get passed

         4       because what is most important about the

         5       legislation is not the problem but the

         6       geographic location as it relates to the

         7       majority or minority status, and this is not

         8       just a criticism of the Senate, it's just a

         9       criticism of the whole process.  So I wondered

        10       if this is just another thing that you might

        11       take a look at.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, thank

        13       you very much, Mr. President and Senator

        14       Paterson.  As you know, that law predates my

        15       sitting on this side of the chamber, in fact

        16       sitting in the chamber at all, so I wasn't aware

        17       that that had been done, but it seems to me that

        18       there is a certain consistency between

        19       overruling or re-examining that bill and the

        20       notion that's presented to us here today.

        21                      This is, as I pointed out to you,

        22       Senator Paterson, this is Calendar C.  This is

        23       "C".  We may get to "D".  We may get to "E".

        24       We may get to "F".  We're going to continue to

        25       do all the substantive work of this Legislature







                                                             
6828

         1       just as I tried to do it with Senator Hannon

         2       which I think I apologized for because, frankly,

         3       grilling the chairman of the Health Committee on

         4       the floor of the Senate is not the place for me

         5       to be asking him about whether the waiver from

         6       the federal government on the Medicaid managed

         7       care plans has worked.  Senator Hannon knows of

         8       my interest in that.  Senator Hannon is very

         9       well versed in it.

        10                      There are other members of the

        11       Health Committee, I'll speak from just our side

        12       of the aisle, Senator Abate, Senator Markowitz,

        13       Senator Montgomery, who are very familiar with

        14       the problem of Medicaid managed care, perhaps

        15       even better understanding of that problem than

        16       other members of the Health Committee who may

        17       not come from districts that have such

        18       significant populations of Medicaid patients and

        19       I end up grilling Senator Hannon about the

        20       particulars of this bill because I haven't seen

        21       this bill before and, frankly, it comes from the

        22       Rules Committee, and I'm not a member of the

        23       Rules Committee, so I think with all due respect

        24       to Senator Hannon, someone has -- has slapped

        25       him in the face.  Someone has said to him, we're







                                                             
6829

         1       not going to let your committee consider this

         2       bill.  We're going to get this bill to come out

         3       of the Rules Committee.

         4                      Well, I think Senator Hannon

         5       deserves to take his considerable expertise and

         6       put it to work on this bill and to offer it for

         7       other members of the Health Committee so that

         8       they can analyze what this bill means to them.

         9       That process is sidestepped.

        10                      Senator Paterson, I think that

        11       the bill that was passed in 1991, if it was as

        12       you describe it to be and I have no reason to

        13       doubt that, I would have voted against that bill

        14       in a second.  I think what we need is to make

        15       this body truly democratic with a small "d".

        16                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter, why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator

        21       Dollinger yield?

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You think

        23       you can do that within the 30 seconds that he

        24       has?

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I'll try.







                                                             
6830

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       yields for 30 seconds.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, are

         4       you offering the shocking radical proposition

         5       that members who are elected and chair

         6       committees should have more say about

         7       legislation than the staffs that make the

         8       decisions of what goes in the Rules report?

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I am

        10       suggesting that, Mr. President.  I'm suggesting

        11       that -- that this vote right now is a vote

        12       whether we accept the Rules Committee report,

        13       interpreting in the generic sense, interpreting

        14       it in its broadest sense, and it's very simple,

        15       it's a vote for an empowered committee structure

        16       that will deal with substantive legislation

        17       early on in the session and that we won't, on

        18       the last day, at least according to Senator

        19       Bruno, one week or six days after we're supposed

        20       to be out of here, we're now going to deal with

        21       substantive issues that affect Senator Spano,

        22       that affect the health care system in this

        23       state, that affect Environmental Conservation.

        24                      Take a look at Supp Calendar C.

        25       We're going to do the big stuff right now.  I







                                                             
6831

         1       think our Committee system -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Dollinger, excuse me just a minute.

         4                      Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

         5       rise?

         6                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I believe

         7       according to the rules that this issue is

         8       debatable for 30 minutes, and 30 minutes are up

         9       and I would request a vote on this issue.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Point is

        11       very well taken, Senator DeFrancisco.

        12                      Question is on the acceptance of

        13       the Rules Committee report..

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Dollinger, why do you rise?

        17                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  May I move to

        18       suspend the rules and continue.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Dollinger, there is a motion on the floor.

        21       You're out of order.

        22                      The motion is to accept the

        23       report or not.  All those in favor say aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye.")

        25                      Opposed nay.







                                                             
6832

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      The report of the Rules Committee

         3       is accepted.

         4                      Senator DeFrancisco.

         5                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would

         6       request that we have the reading of the

         7       non-controversial Supplemental 60-C as in

         8       Charlie.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Go to

        10       Calendar Number 60-C.  Secretary will read the

        11       non-controversial calendar.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1491, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5202, an

        14       act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to

        15       elimination of the compensation cap.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        18       bill aside.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1492, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5264-A, an

        21       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

        22       its interest.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        24       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        25       read the last section.







                                                             
6833

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bill aside.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1495, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5470, an act

         6       authorizing the SUNY College of Environmental

         7       Science.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1500, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3387, an

        13       act to restore credit to Suzanne Cunningham.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        16       bill aside.

        17                      Oh, there is a substitution at

        18       the desk.  We'll take that up first before we

        19       lay the bill aside.  Secretary will read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Trunzo

        21       moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance

        22       Assembly Bill 8434 and substitute it for the

        23       identical Senate bill, Third Reading 1501.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Substitution is ordered on Calendar Number







                                                             
6834

         1       1501.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         6       message?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         8       a message of appropriation at the desk.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the title of Calendar Number 1501.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1501, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        14       Assembly Print 8434, an act to amend the

        15       Executive Law, the State Finance Law, and the

        16       Civil Service Law, in relation to terms and

        17       conditions.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Skelos, there is a message of appropriation and

        20       necessity at the desk.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        23       to accept the message of appropriation and

        24       necessity on Calendar Number 1501.

        25                      Secretary will call the roll.







                                                             
6835

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

         4       we -- we, other than accepting the message and

         5       then we voted on the legislation.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       message is accepted on Calendar 1501.  Now we're

         8       ready to read the last section.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

        10       please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  In relation to

        14       Calendar Number 1505, Senator Bruno moves to

        15       discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly

        16       Bill Number 8450 and substitute it for the

        17       identical Senate bill Third Reading 1505.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        19       Substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read

        20       the title.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1505, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        23       Assembly Print 8450, an act to amend a chapter

        24       of the laws of 1997.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Bill is







                                                             
6836

         1       before the house.  Lay the bill aside.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  There will be an

         6       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee, in the

         7       Majority Conference Room.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         9       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        10       Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules

        11       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room

        12       332.  Secretary will continue to read the

        13       non-controversial calendar.

        14                      THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

        15       1507, by Senator Trunso, Senate Print 3962, an

        16       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        17       Law.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the

        20       bill aside.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1513, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5152-A, an

        23       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

        24       to re-establishing the Westchester Parkway

        25       Commission.







                                                             
6837

         1                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         3       bail side.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1514, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         6       5634-A, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         7       Law, in relation to the creation of a police

         8       department.

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

        10       please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1515, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print Number

        15       2456, an act to amend Chapter 422 of the Laws of

        16       1991.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        19       bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1516, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5006, an

        22       act authorizing the assessor of the county of

        23       Nassau.

        24                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the







                                                             
6838

         1       bill aside.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1517, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5670, an

         4       act authorizing the assessor of the county of

         5       Nassau.

         6                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is there a

         7       message of necessity at the desk?

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         9       a message of necessity at the desk, Senator

        10       Larkin.

        11                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Move to accept

        12       the message.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        14       to accept the message of necessity on Calendar

        15       Number 1517.  All those in favor signify by

        16       saying aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      The message is accepted.

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6839

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me.  Ayes

         6       57 nays one, Senator Cook recorded in the

         7       negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  In relation to

        11       Calendar Number 1518, Senator Farley moves to

        12       discharge from the Committee on Finance,

        13       Assembly Print 6351 and substitute it for the

        14       identical bill, Third Reading 1518.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Substitution is ordered.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  An act to amend

        18       the Banking Law, General Municipal Law, in

        19       relation to the establishment of bank branches.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        21       will read the last section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
6840

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1519, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5452, an

         6       act to amend the Insurance Law and the Public

         7       Health Law, in relation to conforming.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 23.  This

        11       act shall take effect July 1st, 1997.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       1520, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        20       5638, an act to amend the Local Finance Law, in

        21       relation to sale of bonds.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.







                                                             
6841

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1521, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5641, an

         9       act to amend the Rural Electric Cooperative Law,

        10       in relation to powers of the board of

        11       directors.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        17       roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1522, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5620,

        24       an act authorizing the county of Suffolk to

        25       discontinue.







                                                             
6842

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

         2       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

         3       read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                      Secretary will continue to read

        13       the non-controversial calendar.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       1523, by Senator Markowitz, Senate Print 5655,

        16       an act authorizing the city of New York to

        17       reconvey.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is there a

        19       message of necessity?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        21       no message at the desk.  There is also no home

        22       rule message at the desk.  The bill will have to

        23       be laid aside.

        24                      Secretary will continue to read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6843

         1       1524, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 5446,

         2       an act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection

         3       Act of 1994.

         4                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Lay aside,

         5       please.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Larkin, you removing the lay aside on Calendar

         8       Number 1524.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.  Let's take it up.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Let's

        12       read 1524 again.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1524, by Senator Montgomery, an act to amend the

        15       Emergency Tenant Protection Act.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        21       roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        25       is passed.







                                                             
6844

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         2       the negatives.  Announce the results.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 1,

         4       Senator Larkin recorded in the negative.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All those

         6       people wishing to vote in the negative on

         7       Calendar 1524 please raise their hand.  Announce

         8       the results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        10       the negative on Calendar 1524 are Senators

        11       Holland, Larkin, Nozzolio and Wright.  Ayes 54,

        12       nays 4.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1526, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5633, an

        17       act to amend a chapter of the laws of 1997.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the same date as

        22       chapter of the laws of 1997.

        23                       ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll. )







                                                             
6845

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         2       the negatives.  Announce the results when

         3       recorded.

         4                      For the benefit of the members,

         5       we made a clerical error at the desk.  We called

         6       up Calendar Number 1526, so be sure that you're

         7       voting in the negative on Calendar Number 1526.

         8       We'll go back and call 1525 momentarily.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        10       the negative on Calendar Number 1526 are

        11       Senators Cook, Holland, Johnson, Larkin,

        12       Nozzolio, Present, Rath, Saland, Seward,

        13       Stachowski, Stafford and Wright.  Also Senator

        14       Kuhl.  Ayes 45, nays 13.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                      Secretary will now read Calendar

        18       Number 1525.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1525, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5498-A, an

        21       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        22       enacting the Westchester County hand gun record

        23       keeping and accountability act.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the last section.







                                                             
6846

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 7.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         7       the negatives.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

         9       the negative on Calendar Number 1525 are

        10       Senators Cook, Johnson, Kuhl, Larkin, Nozzolio,

        11       Present, Rath, Saland, Seward, Stachowski,

        12       Stafford, Wright, also Senators Bruno and

        13       Holland.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  Who?

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 44, nays

        16       14.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      Senator Larkin, that completes

        20       the reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        21                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Let's now

        22       proceed on the same calendar and take up the

        23       controversial issues, Mr. President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the controversial reading of







                                                             
6847

         1       Supplemental Calendar 60-C.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       1491, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5202, an

         4       act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to

         5       elimination of the compensation cap.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1492, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5264-A, an

        18       act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey

        19       its interest.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is

        21       a home rule message at the desk.  Secretary will

        22       read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                             
6848

         1       roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1495, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5470, an act

         8       authorizing SUNY College of Environmental

         9       Science at Syracuse University.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        15       roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       1500, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3387, an

        22       act to restore service credit to Suzanne

        23       Cunningham.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the last section.







                                                             
6849

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Leichter.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER: To explain my

         9       vote.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Leichter, to explain his vote on Calendar Number

        12       1500.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

        14       on extensive discussion in the Rules Committee

        15       the basis for this bill was explained, and I

        16       think that Suzanne Cunningham may have a valid

        17       claim, but I just plead with all of us to find

        18       some system and process whereby these matters

        19       could be referred to an administrative

        20       tribunal.

        21                      Senator Trunzo was able to

        22       accomplish this for at least a certain class of

        23       claims, although I understand that that process

        24       has now sunsetted. But really, we should not be

        25       doing this.  This is an executive function,







                                                             
6850

         1       administrative function.  We don't have the

         2       background to do it.  We don't have the

         3       information to do it.  We shouldn't be spending

         4       our time and it's an extremely expensive way to

         5       do this for the people of the state of New

         6       York.

         7                      So I plead that we not be

         8       inundated as we are at the end of this session.

         9       We were also last session with hundreds of these

        10       private bills.

        11                      Having said that, Mr. President,

        12       I'll vote in the affirmative on this bill.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative.

        15       Announce the results.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                      Senator Farley, why do you rise?

        20                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Mr. President,

        21       I'd like to be recorded in the negative on 1525

        22       and 1526.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        24       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Farley

        25       will be recorded in the negative on Calendars







                                                             
6851

         1       1525 and 1526.

         2                      Senator Maziarz, why do you rise?

         3                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      Mr. President, I too would like

         6       unanimous permission to be recorded in the

         7       negative on 1525 and 1526.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without

         9       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maziarz

        10       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        11       Numbers 1525 and 1526.

        12                      Senator Saland, why do you rise?

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President, I

        14       too would request unanimous consent for the

        15       purpose of being recorded in the negative on

        16       Calendar 1524.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  1524.

        18                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, sir.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        20       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Saland

        21       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        22       Number 1524.

        23                      The Secretary will continue to

        24       call the controversial calendar.

        25                      Senator Volker.







                                                             
6852

         1                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President, I

         2       too would like to be recorded in the negative on

         3       Calendar Number 1525 and 1526.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         5       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Volker

         6       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         7       Numbers 1525 and 1526.

         8                      Senator LaValle, why do you

         9       rise?

        10                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. President,

        11       I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        12       negative on Calendar 1525 and 1526.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        14       objection, hearing no objection, Senator LaValle

        15       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        16       1525 and 1526.

        17                      Secretary will continue to call

        18       the controversial calendar.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       1501, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        21       Assembly Print 8434, an act to amend the

        22       Executive Law and the State Finance Law and the

        23       Civil Service Law.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        25       will read the last section.







                                                             
6853

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         4       roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        10       1507, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3962, an

        11       act to amend the Retirement and Social Security

        12       Law, in relation to providing.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Trunzo, an explanation of Calendar Number 1507

        16       has been requested by Senator Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR TRUNZO:  This bill

        18       provides for Tier II -- Tier II police officer

        19       and firefighters who have gone on disability

        20       retirement for three-quarters of their final

        21       average salary, and in addition for the

        22       contraction of HIV, hepatitis and tuberculosis,

        23       it would entitle these members to disability

        24       benefits.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6854

         1       Leichter.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         3       on the bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leichter, on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr. President,

         7       I think this is just flawed and faulty

         8       legislation.  What this bill essentially

         9       provides is that there's a presumption that a

        10       firefighter or a police officer on retirement

        11       who is found to have HIV, tuberculosis or

        12       hepatitis, that he developed that disease in the

        13       discharge of his or her duty.  It's a rebuttable

        14       presumption, but it's extremely difficult to

        15       rebut.

        16                      I voted against almost all of

        17       these bills that make a presumption, whether

        18       it's the "heart" bill and some of the other

        19       bills, but there at least is a tenuous

        20       connection between firefighters who exert

        21       themselves and develop heart trouble.  But

        22       there's not even a tenuous connection between

        23       the police officer and a firefighter who is HIV

        24       positive or has AIDS, that he has developed this

        25       as a consequence of his duties and while the







                                                             
6855

         1       bill says that you've got to show it was, well,

         2       you came in contact with some bodily fluids,

         3       that in itself by no means indicates even the

         4       chance or the likelihood, let's say, that the

         5       firefighter, the police officer developed the

         6       disease as a consequence of what happened.

         7                      There's just no connection what

         8       soever and it's extremely difficult to rebut

         9       that presumption.  Firefighter says, Well, I

        10       helped carry somebody out of an apartment.  He

        11       or she was bleeding.  I think that's how I

        12       developed HIV.  How do you possibly rebut this?

        13       This is something that happened years ago.  The

        14       person may have died.  The person may have

        15       moved.  The likelihood of that happening is so

        16       remote.

        17                      It would make more sense,

        18       frankly, to create a presumption for public

        19       employees who work in clinics where they are

        20       more likely to come into contact with bodily

        21       fluids.  Let me say if we want to provide more

        22       money for firefighters and police officers, I

        23       may we will support it, because they do a

        24       fantastic, wonderful job.  They deserve our

        25       support, but let's do it honestly.  Let's do it







                                                             
6856

         1       up front.  Let's not do it through the

         2       subterfuge coming up with totally cockamamie

         3       medical ideas and theories, and then imposing on

         4       the pension system this great financial burden

         5       and establishing a system where it's almost

         6       impossible to rebut a presumption.

         7                      There's no basis for that

         8       presumption, and I just want to point out the

         9       fiscal note for those who have missed it, that

        10       this is going to cost the participating

        11       employers of the New York State and local police

        12       and fire retirement system $26 million, and I -

        13       annual -- annually.  That's a large sum.

        14                      You talk about unfunded

        15       mandates.  This is certainly a whopper of an

        16       unfunded mandate and it's totally inexcusable.

        17       There's no basis for it.  I say again, if we

        18       want to provide more money for these very fine

        19       people, then let's do it.  Let's do it openly,

        20       say they're entitled, but let's not do it by

        21       twisting the retirement system, by creating

        22       totally fallacious medical theories.

        23                      This is just not the way to

        24       proceed and we really shouldn't pass these sort

        25       of bills, Mr. President.  I'm going to vote in







                                                             
6857

         1       the negative.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         3       will read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         7       roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        10       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        12       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Continue to call the

        16       controversial calendar.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       1513, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5152-A, an

        19       act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation

        20       to re-establishing the Westchester Parkway

        21       Commission.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

        25       act shall take effect on the 60th day.







                                                             
6858

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         2       roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         5       the negatives, announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

         7       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                      Secretary will continue to call

        11       the controversial calendar.

        12                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        16       Paterson, why do you rise?

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        18       Hoffmann.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I

        20       understand there are several members who want to

        21       vote in the opposite.  We'll take that as soon

        22       as we complete the controversial calendar.

        23                      Secretary will continue to call

        24       the controversial calendar.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6859

         1       1514, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         2       5634-A, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         3       Law, in relation to the creation of a police

         4       department of the Metropolitan Transportation

         5       Authority.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 12.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        11       roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1515, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2456, an

        18       act to amend Chapter 422 of the Laws of 1991.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        24       roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll. )







                                                             
6860

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1516, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5006, an

         6       act authorizing the assessor of the county of

         7       Nassau.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        16       the negatives, announce the results.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays

        18       one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the

        19       negative.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                      Senator Alesi, why do you rise?

        23                      SENATOR ALESI:  Thank you.  Mr.

        24       President, may I ask unanimous consent to be

        25       recorded in the negative on Calendar 1526 as







                                                             
6861

         1       well as 1525.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         3       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Alesi

         4       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

         5       1525 and 1526.

         6                      Senator Libous, why do you rise?

         7                      SENATOR LIBOUS:  Mr. President, I

         8       too would like unanimous consent to be recorded

         9       in the negative on Calendar 1525 and 1526.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Libous

        12       will be recorded in the negative on Calendars

        13       1525 and 1526.

        14                      Senator DeFrancisco.

        15                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would ask

        16       unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        17       on 1525 and 1526.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        20       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative on

        21       Calendars 1525 and 1526.

        22                      Senator Maltese.

        23                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr. President,

        24       may I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in

        25       the negative on Calendar Numbers 1525 and 1526.







                                                             
6862

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         2       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maltese

         3       will be recorded in the negative on Calendars

         4       1525 and 1526.

         5                      Senator Hoffmann, why do you

         6       rise?

         7                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr. President,

         8       I'd unanimous consent to be recorded in the

         9       negative on Calendar 1525 and 1526.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        12       Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative on

        13       Calendars 1525 and 1526.

        14                      Senator Meier, why do you rise?

        15                      SENATOR MEIER:  Mr. President, I

        16       ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        17       negative on 1525 and 1526.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Meier

        20       will be recorded in the negative on Calendars

        21       1525 and 1526.

        22                      Any other Senators wishing to

        23       change their vote?

        24                      Senator Larkin.

        25                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,







                                                             
6863

         1       can we now return to reports of a standing

         2       committee.  We have a Rules report there.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         4       return to the order of reports of standing

         5       committees.  There is a report of the Rules

         6       Committee at the desk.  I'll ask the Secretary

         7       to read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

         9       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        10       following bills:

        11                      Senate Print 5677, by the Senate

        12       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

        13       Insurance Law;

        14                      4367, by Senator Paterson, an act

        15       to authorize Richard J. Mason, the deputy

        16       executive director; and

        17                      4822, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

        18       act to provide benefit options.

        19                      All bills ordered direct for

        20       third reading.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Larkin.

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        24       can we now call up Calendar 1496.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is







                                                             
6864

         1       to accept the report of the Rules Committee.

         2       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Opposed nay.

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The report of the Rules Committee

         7       is accepted.

         8                      Senator Larkin.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN: Can we call up

        10       1496, please.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read Calendar Number 1496.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1496, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        15       Print 5677, an act to amend the Insurance Law,

        16       in relation to continuing.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Larkin.

        19                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        20       is there a message at the desk?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        22       is.

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Move to accept

        24       the message.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is







                                                             
6865

         1       to accept the message of necessity on Calendar

         2       Number 1496 which is at the desk.  All those in

         3       favor signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The message is accepted.

         8                      Secretary will read the last

         9       section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 11.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN: Calendar Number

        19       1528, Mr. President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1528.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       1528, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 4822,

        24       an act to provide benefit options to surviving

        25       beneficiaries.







                                                             
6866

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                      Senator Larkin.

        12                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Calendar Number

        13       1527.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  What's the

        15       calendar number, ...27 -- 1527?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Larkin.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        19       is there any housekeeping?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        21       return to the order of motions and resolutions.

        22       There's a substitution at the desk.

        23                      I'll ask the Secretary to read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 18,

        25       Senator Alesi moves to discharge from the







                                                             
6867

         1       Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 5285-A

         2       and substitute it for the identical Third

         3       Reading Calendar 733.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       substitution is ordered.

         6                      Senator Wright.

         7                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

         8       on page 13, I offer the following amendments to

         9       Calendar Number 525, Senate Print Number 3314,

        10       and I ask that said bill retain its place on the

        11       Third Reading Calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

        14       will retain its place on the Third Reading

        15       Calendar.

        16                      Senator Larkin.

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is there any

        18       more housekeeping there?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That's it

        20       for right now, Senator Larkin.

        21                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Let's stand at

        22       ease for a couple of minutes.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Senate will stand at ease for a couple of

        25       minutes.







                                                             
6868

         1                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         2       ease from 6:36 p.m. until 6:39 p.m.)

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Senate will come to order.  Can we have some

         5       quiet in the house, please.

         6                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         7       Larkin.

         8                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

         9       let's call up 1527, please.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1527.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1527, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print 4367, an

        14       act to authorize Richard J. Mason, the executive

        15       -- deputy executive director of the Renaissance

        16       Health Care Network.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        22       roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                             
6869

         1       is passed.

         2                      Senator Larkin.

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Let's stand at

         4       ease for a few more minutes.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senate will stand at ease.

         7                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         8       ease from 6:40 p.m. until 6:46 p.m.)

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        10       will come to order.  Ask the members to find

        11       their chairs.

        12                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        13       Skelos.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        15       on behalf of Senator Bruno, at this time I would

        16       like to move to recommit all calendar bills to

        17       the Committee on Rules.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        19       objection, all bills currently on the calendar

        20       are recommitted to the Committee on Rules.

        21                      SENATOR GOLD:  Excuse me -

        22       excuse me.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       motion is before the house.

        25                      SENATOR GOLD:  Yes.  Could I ask







                                                             
6870

         1       for just one moment before the motion.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Sure.

         3       That's why I recognized you.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I appreciate it.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Otherwise

         6       I would ask you to sit down.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you.

         8                      I appreciate it.  You are still a

         9       gentleman.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Gold, you had a question?

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Gold, without objection, hearing no objection,

        16       all the calendar bills are recommitted to the

        17       Committee on Rules.

        18                      Senator Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        20       there being no further business, I move that we

        21       stand adjourned until Tuesday, July 8th, at

        22       11:00 a.m. and there will be a Republican

        23       Conference the same day at 10:30 a.m.,

        24       intervening days to be legislative days.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without







                                                             
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         1       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

         2       Tuesday, July the 8th, at 11:00 a.m.

         3                      Senator Paterson, did you wish to

         4       be recognized.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  On that same

         6       day, on July 8th, next Tuesday, there will be a

         7       Minority Conference in the Minority Conference

         8       Room at 10:00 a.m.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        10       will be a Majority Conference in the Majority

        11       Conference Room at 10:30, Minority Conference in

        12       the Majority Conference Room, intervening days

        13       to be legislative days.

        14                      (Whereupon, at 6:49 p.m., the

        15       Senate adjourned.)

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